UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 SETI@home From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 08:24:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 11:53:31 -0400 Subject: SETI@home Maybe you've heard of this, but it was news to me. Check out: http://www.bigscience.com/setiathome.html "SETI@home is a grand experiment to harness the spare power of hundreds of thousands of Internet-connected computers in the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI.) When the experiment launches in Spring 1998, computer users from all over the world will be able to participate in a major scientific experiment. Each participant has the slight but captivating possibility that his or her computer will detect the faint murmur of a civilization beyond Earth." Tim -- The Constitution admittedly has a few defects and blemishes, but it still seems a hell of a lot better than the system we have now.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 11:54:11 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > Date: 31 Jul 97 16:18:55 EDT > Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:00:06 -0400 > Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book .> From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >> In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs >> do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric >> phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. > Maybe no one has bothered to try to refute these studies, because > these studies are too ridiculous to take seriously. Why wast time > refuting nonsense. Bob, You ignorance is showing again. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: ufo1@juno.com (Jack P Sargeant) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 04:11:46 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 13:02:48 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book KEEP WATCHING THE SKIES! Charlotte, NC 1:379/12 >Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:56:13 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:56:59 -0700 (PDT) >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >>You're of course free to restrict your own interests however you wish, >>but here are some reasons why I, and no doubt others on this List, must >>include a wide range of occultism as par for the course in studying >>the UFO phenomenon. > This is true, of course, provided you confine the use of the word to > a specific meaning, which is neither popular nor common use. "Occult" Hello Jean, I address this to you, inasmuch as I haven't "met" Jim. It's true many consider a paranormal explanation for the UFO phenomenon as being a major consideration. I'm not sure of percentages, but there are too many physical sightings of UFOs to warrant shrugging these eye-witness accounts off as being less than the solid, material objects so many proclaim them to be. Keep up the good work, and don't be such a stranger on the UFO echo. Jack
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: UK - IRN report re: GCHQ From: John Gilbert <john@skiesare.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:14:00 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 13:04:18 -0400 Subject: Re: UK - IRN report re: GCHQ >> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:10:24 +0100 >> From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> >> Organization: Univ Of Manchester >> To: Ufo Updates List <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: UK - IRN report re: GCHQ >> On the 11.30am Independent Radio News on a local MOR radio >> station here in Manchester I just caught the tail end of what sounded >> like an interesting item. It seems a report has surfaced from the UK >> Govnt Communications facility, GCHQ, located near Cheltenham which >> confirms they were called in to monitored "unknown objects" operating >> over East Anglia in October of last year. The item was repeatead on >> the 2pm spot but gave little info and was just used as a "and finally" >> item. I can't comment on the GCHQ part, but for details of the October incident check out- http://www.ecn.co.uk/e_ed_ufo_NFileUFOSightingNorfolk.htm Hope this helps. Be Seeing You Skies http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Kal Korff Klaims Konspiracy From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 06:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 13:05:36 -0400 Subject: Kal Korff Klaims Konspiracy Kal, If you are still on the list: Could you please provide the documentation that proves that Art Bell called not one, but three radio stations to keep you off the air and prevent you from telling the truth about the Phoenix sightings? TIA, Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Another Question for Kal From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 06:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 13:08:30 -0400 Subject: Another Question for Kal Gosh, I hope Kal is on the list. I have been listening to your appearance on Jeff Rense's "Sightings on the Radio" program and I have a couple more questions for you concerning your investigation into the Arizona Sightings. You say that you have a clear video that shows smoke on the flare portion of the Arizona Sightings. Could you please do a frame grab for us that shows the smoke and forward it to this List? Could you tell us, since you have been doing this investigation, how long the "flare event" was? Now, you have studied the videos and you have hopefully talked to witnesses (if you are indeed doing an investigation), so that question should be one that you can answer. Also Kal, at what altitude were these flares jettisoned? If it is 3000 to 6000 feet, can you tell us if smoke and/or parachutes would be visible on home videos? You also say that you made a special effort to get the information out on the flare story, implying that this was based on your research. Did you know that the MUFON Journal carried a story reaching just about the same claim -- without the help of Capt Bienz -- almost a full month before you, er I mean the Arizona Republic broke the story? Kal, we know you wrote, not one, but two books. We know that you are not a debunker and that you even had your own UFO sighting. I can probably guess that you are just swamped doing interviews, working on that next book -- about Richard Hoagland (oh wait, you just said that you weren't interested in doing that anymore) -- and/or creating your web sites. So don't waste time saying all that stuff, just answer the questions. TIA, Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: The Real Phoenix Sightings From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 12:26:56 GMT Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 13:10:40 -0400 Subject: Re: The Real Phoenix Sightings >From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com >Date: Thursday, 31 July 1997 10:02am MT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: The Real Phoenix Sightings >Richard Motzer of MUFON AZ has changed his story about these lights >several times and now backs Capt. Bienz's version. That version >does not explain the sightings. >Kal Korff is basing his opinion, evidently, on his dislike of >Jim Diletosso (who is doing a great job on this along with >Michael Tanner). That is a poor basis to evaluate the sightings. >To insure that we get an answer from D-M, I am filing an >FOIA request for a copy of all records, documents, or logs that >record departing and arriving flights for the night of March 13th >between the hours of 7-11 PM. Bill, it sounds like your organization is the only group interested in finding the truth. Looks like MUFON/Az is much happier debunking like Kal Korff does. BTW, do you have or need a serious researcher for Colorado? Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Comparative Literature From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:55:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 13:13:09 -0400 Subject: Comparative Literature Hi All! Does anyone know of any books, or even web pages, that do a comparison between religous writings and ufology. What I am looking for, is something that breaks down the different influential appearances of "god" or "angels", and also miracles, and compares these to what we know today about ufos and abductions. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! Sincerely, Desiree Holloway - snake@mwaz.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mars Photo From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:15:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 13:15:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Photo Hello again! I think I figured out what, in my blinding hysteria over seeing the anomaly in the photo, I could not figure out before. I think that when I down- loaded the photo from SUN it must have blurred it somehow. What led me to this conclusion, is that when I viewed an even worse photo I had copied, it too looked clearer than the original. OH WELL! I'm only human! I still maintain that what I saw in the photo is indeed something in the skyline. In comparing it to the drop out on the photo, you can see the difference. For one thing, there is drop out on the object itself, indicating that this "thing" is a part of the Mars skyline, as much as the hill is part of the Martian terrain. Your feed-back is greatly appreciated! Let me know what you think! Desiree Holloway - snake@mwaz.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:39:19 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:28:15 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:56:59 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > I see a lot of people making these sorts of sweeping > > statements. I don't see anybody actually documenting them. > > In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs > > do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric > > phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. > > Ufology, people, is not a branch of occultism. If it were, > > the CSICOP people would be right, and we'd all be wasting our > > time. I don't believe we're wasting our time, but I do believe > > speculations like the above consume attention more productively > > spent in actual study of UFO reports. > > Jerry Clark > Jerry, > You're of course free to restrict your own interests however you wish, but > here are some reasons why I, and no doubt others on this List, must > include a wide range of occultism as par for the course in studying the > UFO phenomenon. [snip] > I'm sure you got the point without having had to read the last 5 or 6 > paragraphs; you've been in this business longer than I have. But it might > have more meaning for you if you were to consider that these occult > byproducts of the UFO phenomenon are the same thing as UFO events of "high > strangeness." Hynek probably preferred not to call them "occult" so as > not to upset fellow astronomers and scientists any more than necessary. > > Ufology is not so much a branch of occultism as a phenomenon embodying > occultism. > Jim Deardorff Jim, I think you've pretty much made my point. Your reasoning here, as I understand, is positively medieval. Anything not immediately understandable must be, you assume, supernatural. There is little if any evidence for a UFO phenomenon before the early nineteenth century. I urge you to read Bullard's "Anomalous Aerial Phenomena Before 1800" (in the second volume of my UFO Encyclopedia). I hope no parapsychologists are on this list. When you ask how anything could be more occult than mental telepathy, you may have caused some poor soul to have a heart attack. I doubt that a serious parapsychologist in the world would characterize telepathy (assuming it exists) as an "occult" phenomenon. It was precisely that kind of thinking parapsychology came into being to combat. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:43:37 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:30:10 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: 31 Jul 97 16:18:55 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs > > do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric > > phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. > Maybe no one has bothered to try to refute these studies, because > these studies are too ridiculous to take seriously. Why wast time > refuting nonsense. > > Bob > Folks, Now THERE'S a response. In a few poorly chosen words our friend here has managed to express just about everything that's wrong with the occult, as opposed to the reasoned, approach to the questions ufologists face. Amusedly, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Pop Culture & Abductions - A non-Relationship From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:27:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:32:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Pop Culture & Abductions - A non-Relationship Adding to something Jerry Clark wrote.... > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:51:14 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: pop culture and abductions: a nonrelationship > Hi, everybody, > > In regard to the current discussion about the alleged relationship > of abduction motifs to scattered themes in popular culture, I > urge all interested persons to read Eddie Bullard's comprehensive > examination and debunking of same. [snip] > As for the nonsense (pardon my lack of tact; it's the only word I > can think > of) that has the "Bollero Shield" episode of Outer Limits being > recycled in > Barney Hill's testimony, see my discussion in High Strangeness (UFO > Encyclopedia #3, first edition), p. 250. Alas, this piece of > debunking > flummery, like so many others, is by now an unkillable canard. > Jerry Clark One other pop-culture source for abduction imagery was suggested by long-time skeptic Robert Sheaffer, at the 1992 abduction conference at MIT. He found an ancient Buck Rogers comic strip, in which a woman was drawn up into a circular alien spaceship and examined on a table by aliens. Luckily, the strip was reproduced in the MIT proceedings, so the whole world can see that the aliens were cat-like, and were astounded that the woman wasn't feline, too. Anyone who believes this strip gave rise to the entire abduction phenomenon should explain (a) how one obscure comic could have that much influence (b) why the feline part of the story somehow got suppressed. Not that motifs in pop culture don't get recycled all over the place. But Sheaffer isn't a sociologist, and his scientific method here is laughable. "It's there -- so it's the cause of the whole thing!" Just as we want a chain of evidence to connect the MJ-12 papers, let's say, to their source, a sociologist would want some kind of evidential chain leading from the abduction phenomenon back to this strip. It would help, for instance, if the strip were widely known. Which, needless to say, it isn't........ What's also ignored here are ways in which abduction stories differ from pop culture, but that's another, longer matter. One study that's often ignored, also from the MIT proceedings, on a different, but related matter: The alien medical examinations bear very little resemblance to the ones we've all had from our doctors. That, of course, doesn't stop skeptics from saying that people simply transform familiar events into imagined abduction scenarios. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:04:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:35:57 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book Not that I don't enjoy the lovely threads my post gave rise to.... > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Hi Jerry and List, > I don't want to speak for Greg Sandow, but I believe the original > idea was to suggest that the artist was incorporating some earlier > abduction experience into his work as might have other artists. > Back in the fifties, to suggest that you were being abducted by aliens > meant a quick trip to "Belvue"(sp) and some new clothing, such as a > straight jacket. There is nothing to suggest that the abduction > phenomena started only with Betty and Barney Hill, but like the UFO > phenomena itself probably goes back much farther than suspected. > Artists have been painting images of their dreams and their > interpretations of society's delemma since the first artist used > charcoal to make images on cave walls. It comes as no surprise to > me that this particular artist, perhaps tortured by these visitations > and having no outlet as abductees have today, chose to vent his > frustration on his canvas. > Don Ledger Yep. Don has expressed my original thought. One would think, if those little gray buggers have been visiting us for any length of time, that someone would have reproduced their image. (Sure would be fun to find it unambiguously in a cave painting somewhere.) But the divergences between endless occult and folkloric encounter accounts don't necessarily mean that folks haven't been seeing our little big-eyed guests. Even certified abductees are said to come to the table with screen memories, in which the aliens are remembered as owls, cats, deer, or many other things. Let's avoid the old argument for now, the one that says "Gotcha! The abduction researchers then implant [word chosen for ironic effect, and I don't even -- hi, Peter -- live in Cambridge] the standard grays in abductees' helpless minds. Or, rather, let's have that argument, but let's also seriously consider the claims of abduction researchers, that they can get past those screen memories to the possible real thing. My point being, simply, that if abductions do occur, and people develop screen memories of what really happened, then it would hardly be surprising to find cultures in other times and places -- cultures more open to paranormal experience than ours is -- developing screen memories that were publicly accepted. We could even argue that we, as a scientific culture, are able to at last see through the screen to determine what the beings really are. Why not, if we're able to determine other things cultures of the past didn't know about? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:08:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:39:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez Presenting my compliments to the Duke and others.... On Tuesday, July 22, 1997 12:09 PM, UFO UpDates - Toronto [SMTP:updates@globalserve.net] wrote: > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:58:12 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with > Velez > > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:46:39 -0400 > > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> > > Subject: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. > > >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:42:37 -0700 (PDT) > > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with > > >Velez > > >The key example others here will likely point to also is the very > > >high official within the U.N. who was abducted. > > Well, allegedly abducted. But suppose he was, indeed. He - the > > hapless P.J. de Cuellar, sometime Secretary General of the UN - also > > denies it. > > Now suppose he is denying it, and that it happened, but that he > > duly took the aliens' and Linda's message to his bosom, and is now > > deeply concerned about the fate of molluscs, fishes, &c. > > > Has anyone bothered to find out (a) what was de Cuellar's interest > > in environmental matters before November 1989, and (b) whether he > > has evinced any special interest or become more active in > > environmental issues since? > > > If the answer to (a) is "low" and to (b) is "No he hasn't", then > > you can expect yet another ufological cock ("it's all cock") fight to > > break out between differing factions who conclude from this that on the > > one hand (i) JPdeC wasn't abducted and on the other (ii) not even the > > uncomfortable experience he underwent - being threatened with dead > > fish and shouted at by the doughty Linda, etc - persuaded him of > > the argument. ... To which Jim Deardorff replied: > I don't think it's worth anyone's effort to try to find out, because > not all abductees become environmentalists, because some people aquire > a planetary outlook on their own without the necessity of being > abducted, and because the absence of evidence would not be firm evidence > of an absence of interest in ecology. There's also good old-fashioned denial. That is, de Cuellar might have been abducted, given environmental warnings, and decided after an intial flurry of enthusiasm that the whole thing never happened, and he should ignore it. He wouldn't be the first -- even outside the arena of UFOs and abductions. Didn't that happen in tobacco companies when they got the news about cigarettes and cancer? Besides, as has been pointed out by someone else, the warnings (assuming for the moment that abductions are real, etc.) might not even be true. They could be alien disinformation. So it's a little naive -- imagine that; naivete from Peter Brookesmith, of all people -- to think that a prominent abductee MUST react to alien environmental cautions. De Cuellar's environmental record doesn't prove a thing. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: "Gary Mont" <gem@mulberry.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:10:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:40:44 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book ---------- > Date: 31 Jul 97 16:18:55 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs > > do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric > > phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. > Maybe no one has bothered to try to refute these studies, because > these studies are too ridiculous to take seriously. Why wast time > refuting nonsense. Hmmmmm....... it would appear that you are advocating pre-judgement as a standard practice in scientific method! ie - if the Scientists/Academics 'think' that something is impossible/unlikely, they should then simply ignore all aspects of the phenomena/event completely. This leaves Scientists to discover the Known and Believed, which in my opinion appears to be rather useless. Perhaps the term Scientician has more merit than previously considered, if that does happen to be the standard practice of today's modern 'scientist'. G.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 BWW Media Alert 970731 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:43:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:43:52 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970731 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html BufoCalvin's Home Page TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (Permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes, provided attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before e-mailing them something. If you do forward it to someone, please be sure that it is clear you are forwarding it) July 31, 1997 Hmm, kind of a slower week. Of course, it's not that bad: I'll be on :) . I'll be on http://www.sightings.com SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO Wednesday at 7:00 PM Pacific. I'm going to be doing an hour on levitation and flying humanoids. The website should also be greatly increased by Saturday (I'm planning to get some work done on it today). I've noticed that the links don't always send out in the e-mailings...sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, and sometimes they encompass entire paragraphs! I'm trying to get that all worked out. If you want me to send you individual links for books, I will. http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours. On to the listings! (Remember, times given here are generally Pacific) FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. VILLAGE OF THE DAMNED is a classic about children who are aliens. It's on Cinemax on Sunday at 12:00 PM. DoodoodoodooINSPECTOR GADGET faces apparent ghosts in the "Clear Case" episode on Nickelodeon Saturday at 3:00 (had to list this one for my daughter...sorry about that, Chief!). QUINCY, M.E. and MATLOCK both have eps with psychics this week: the latter on A&E on Wed. at 9:00 AM (the ep is called "Beyond the Open Door" and the latter is on TBS Wed at 9:05 AM ("The Psychic"). Some day, I'll write a book (or something) on UFO episodes of normally non-paranormal shows...like EIGHT IS ENOUGH with Nicholas seeing one (ep: "Who's on First?") on Monday at 8:00 AM on FX, and DUKES OF HAZZARD (featuring Felix "Cousin Itt" Silla as an alien...ep: "Strange Visitor to Hazzard:") on TNN on Tuesday at 3:00 PM. Some folks believe kids are being intentionally conditioned to believe in aliens...how about CHICKEN MINUTE on STARZ this week (Thusday at 7:00 AM...ep is simply "Alien Invasion) on Thursday at 7:30 AM? ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.COM/~ufomus/chat/ <A HREF="http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.CO M/~ufomus/chat/ ">Museum Chat</A> OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. This week, John Velez, alien abductee, the person who runs Budd Hopkins' website. <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com/t alk/"> </A><A HREF="http://www.omnima g.com/talk/">OMNI Prime Time</A> RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</A> Next week's guests not known (except for Michael Lindemann and me...he'll be on at 6:00 PM Wednesday, I'll be on at 7:00 PM) as I write this, but you can check the website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. Archives of earlier shows are also available, so you can hear my previous broadcasts through this site. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? No details available at this time. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com <A HREF="http://www.psifactor.com"> PSI Factor</A> for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 7/28 (#115R): GREENHOUSE EFFECT (monster plant); THE BUZZ (a hum, like the Taos hum) --week of 8/4 (#116R): a special one-case episode, THE LIGHT (apparently, an evil double of one of the team is created during a near-death experience). Saturday, August 2 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. Guests not available at press time. 12:00 PM, A&E, HAUNTED HOUSES 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: ANCIENT WISDOM (includes a crystal skull, and an ancient battery) 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, UFOS AND ALIEN ENCOUNTERS Sunday, August 3 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com <A HREF="http://www.artbell.com">Art Bell</A> for stations and program info) Art interviews Pat and Jim Freejay on how to "Know Your Dreams, Know Yourself" LOCAL TELEVISION, SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA, CALIFORNIA, KCSM, 12:00 PM: THINKING ALLOWED: ACTIVATING YOUR INTUITION: YOUR SIXTH SENSE (Belleruth Naparstek talks about psychic development...this is the College of San Mateo channel, may be available on cable) LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. No details available. 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#404 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: ZOMBIES: THE LIVING DEAD 1:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, BEYOND BIZARRE: SNAKES, MUMMIES, AND ROCKS THAT MOVE 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH (near-death experiences) 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, BEYOND BIZARRE: BODIES: DEAD AND ALIVE (cryptozoology: the search for unrecognized species, like bigfoot or Nessie; animal myths; ghosts) 2:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SOLAR EMPIRE: ALIEN NEIGHBORS (explores the search for ET life...probably basically from a scientific perspective, but sounds like it might bring in some "weird" stuff as well) 3:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, BEYOND BIZARRE: VAMPIRES AND OTHER PETS 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS: (alien) AUTOPSY: EXPOSING A HOAX; RED LION HAUNTING (in England); SHADOW OF EVIL! (psychic Dorothy Allison helps son seek mother's killer); THREAT FROM SPACE! (dealing with asteroids, etc.); 6:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, TERRA X: DRACULA'S SHADOW (vampires) 7:00 PM, BEYOND BELIEF (some stories are made up for the show, some are based on real cases, you're supposed to guess...I think I'm not going to lists topics for this show, it's too confusing) 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#404 Monday, August 4 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse <A HREF="http://www.rysher.com/strangeun iverse/">Strange Universe</A> for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES: pre-empted Tuesday, August 5 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#36): POWER OF PRAYER; TIME WARP; WHITE LADY Wednesday, August 6 SYNDICATED RADIO, ART BELL interviews Bob Guccione, publisher of HUSTLER MAGAZINE and OMNI (see website at http://www.artbell.com for more info) SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: New "Area 51"(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#37): CHURCH MIRACLES; WITHCES OF SOUTH AFRICA; HARRIET'S GHOST Thursday, August 7 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: UFO video (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#38): NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES; NIGHT TERRORS; ALCATRAZ 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS: Gulf Breeze, Florida UFO activity; communicating with an unborn child; spook lights in Texas; ET life seeds; Chillingham Castle's haunting; precognition 5:30 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, AMAZING AMERICA: includes a segment on the psychics of Cassadaga, Florida 8:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS: Gulf Breeze, Florida UFO activity; communicating with an unborn child; spook lights in Texas; ET life seeds; Chillingham Castle's haunting; precognition 8:30 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, AMAZING AMERICA: includes a segment on the psychics of Cassadaga, Florida 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: INTO THIN AIR (mysterious disappearances of buildings...with a bit of a mind flip?) Friday, August 8 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: INTO THIN AIR (mysterious disappearances of buildings...with a bit of a mind flip?) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#39): ANGEL MONTAGE; MIND OVER MATTER; RODS (videotaping UFOs) 8:00 PM, NBC, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES, includes a segment on a military remote viewer...it seems like there are enough of those guys writing books to make up a baseball team...gee, was English part of the course? and I don't know which one it is this case. This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 15:37:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:47:42 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:58:41 -0700 > > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:06:20 -0700 > > From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > Physicists are beginning to prove that some form of > > communication exists between particles that are separated in space. > This is not exactly a correct interpretation of the Bell theorem, or the EPR, > as I understand it. There are numerous sources, but here's one I have handy: "The Emperor's New Mind: Concerning Computers, Minds, and the Laws of Physics", Roger Penrose. New York: Oxford University Press, c1989. pgs. 364-365. > > Elements are being shown to have behavioural characteristics that defy > > identification (i.e. metals such as rhodium in high spin states are > > transparent to identification devices and are being identified by the > > trace impurities contained within it - i.e. they are being identified as > > silica - could this possibly explain the Roswell debris object that was > > currently tested and found to be silica with unusual ionization > > patterns?). > According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by > who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? What type of > "spin" is being referred to here? (Quantum spin is quantized and only > affects quanta, not atoms or metals) I'm referring to the spin of the nucleus. When the nucleus becomes deformed in a ratio of 2 to 1, it's spin slips to the high-spin state. For more information, refer to the sources below: Sources: "Collective and Single Particle Structure of 103 Rh", Physical Review C, Volume 37, Number 2, February 1988, pg. 621-635. "Quantum Size Effects in Rapidly Rotating Nuclei", Neils Bohr Institute, University of Copenhagen, Physical Review C, Volume 41, Number 4, April 1990, pgs. 41 and 1865. "Inertias of Superdeformed Bands", Physical Review C, Volume 41, Number 4, 1990, pgs. 1861-1864. U.S. Patent 2180-CIP-fdl (11 elements in orbitally rearranged monatomic states) > > Einstein's theory of Relativity is being seriously > > challenged. > By who? According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by > who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? There are numerous sources, but I do not have all of them handy (many were from Library books). Howver, here is one well-known source: "The Special Theory of Relativity: A Critical Analysis" , Louis Essen (English Physicist), Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1971. On the Internet, check also: Mirza Abdullah Baig: http://www.eecs.uic.edu/~nbutt/ and Frank Lofaro: http://www.unlv.edu/~ftlofaro/strange/alt-sci/relativity-flaws-list.html > > Animals are able to communicate with humans and show > > creative thinking processes similar to those of humans. > According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by > who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? These are well-known experiments, conducted in "The Dolphin Communication Project", headed by Dr. Dwight Wayne Batteau (Professor of physics and mechanical engineering at Tufts and Harvard University) in Arlington, Massuchusetts, and Cocunut Island, Hawaii. You can read about it in: "Towards a New Alchemy: The Millenium Sciences", Dr. Nick Begich, Anchorage, Alaska: Earthpulse Press, pgs. 61-65). > > Humans have been > > found to emit magnetic fields from the solar plexis while experiencing > > pain. I could go on and on, but the books above document my points. > According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by > who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? Source: "Towards a New Alchemy: The Millenium Sciences", Dr. Nick Begich, Anchorage, Alaska: Earthpulse Press, pgs. 114-115. Confirmation: try it yourself! > I know, it sounds like a broken record. But to the best of my knowledge > none of the above are currently accepted science. > I'm willing to look at the evidence, but, after all, Einstein's theory, to > take just one example, is one of THE most confirmed theories ever. So > once I read the sentence "Einstein's theory of Relativity is being seriously > challenged", I find it much harder to take the rest of the examples at face > value and accept them as real science. O.K. I've given you references, to satisfy your doubt. Note that the references are not from the realm of the occult, which, contrary to attacks by some of the Updates subscribers, I have never recommended! As I've said before, I simply recommend looking at BORDER-LINE SCIENCE (I'm not shouting, only emphasizing, since subscribers repeatedly tend NOT to acknowledge this statement) for IDEAS which may ASSIST in the study of UFOs. Who cares whether these ideas have been proven by science yet or not? It takes an enormous amount of effort and time to prove anything, and if we wait until ideas are proven, in the interim we cannot use these ideas to try to prove our case. It's the IDEAS and THEORIES I'm talking about, not scientific proofs that happen to make it past the scientific censors. Now it's my turn: What PROOF have ufologists turned up about the existence of UFOs? Let's forget about this meaningless bickering and attack on other's beliefs. If we start to pool together our IDEAS, we may find the road to scientific proof. If we continue to attack ideas, and restrict ourselves to a very narrow realm of knowledge, we will only divide ourselves into enemy camps. It's really not important to have your name appear in highlights as you publish another book which says nothing. There should be enough UFO evidence to convince anyone that this phenomenon is real. But there is also a lot of evidence which seems to indicate that our CURRENT scientific methodology cannot be used to detect the so-called "object". Is there any harm in testing border-line scientific iseas on the object? Not in place of scientific methdology, but as a way to ENHANCE it. Again I must say it - let's move forward, and not dwell in the past. And let's listen to those who have realted paranormal experiences, which to them are as real as the UFO experiences, but which also can't be detected by current scientific methodologies. <snip> > Bedroom encounters, NDEs, etc don't seem to have enough objective > value to be a proof. Psychic abilities in post-encounter witnesses have been > claimed, but, to the best of my knowledge, never unambiguously demonstrated. That's just my point. UFOs have also never before been unambiguously demonstrated to have enough objctive value to be a proof. I just don't get your point. > in independent labs. And except for abductions and some very unreliable > single witness reports, there just don't seem sufficient reliable high- > strangeness accounts to be worth going down this road, until we've done the > more basic science on the hard, objective nature of the UFO. > ------- > Mark Cashman So it's UFOs first, then "high strangeness"? It's now an absolutely proven fact that "high strangeness" has absolutely no reelevance to UFOs? Please point me to the proof. As you yourself put it: "According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal?" John Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Comparative Literature From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:18:04 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:49:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Comparative Literature > From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:55:28 -0700 > Subject: Comparative Literature > Does anyone know of any books, or even web pages, that > do a comparison between religous writings and ufology. > What I am looking for, is something that breaks down > the different influential appearances of "god" or > "angels", and also miracles, and compares these to > what we know today about ufos and abductions. There have been several. Three spring immediately to mind: Bullard, Thomas. (1982). Mysteries in the Eye of the Beholder: UFOs and Their Correlates as a Folkloric Theme Past and Present. PhD Dissertation, Indiana University. Evans, Hilary. (1987). Gods, Spirits, Cosmic Guardians. Wellingborough: Aquarian Press. (and I suppose a fourth; his earlier Visions, Apparitions, Alien Visitors, same publisher, 1984) and the classic: Vallee, Jacques. (1969). Passport to Magonia. Chicago: Regnery. Hope this helps. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 22:33:37 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:51:13 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: 31 Jul 97 16:18:55 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >> In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs >> do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric >> phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. >Maybe no one has bothered to try to refute these studies, because >these studies are too ridiculous to take seriously. Why wast time >refuting nonsense. No offense Bob, but that's a worthless response to Jerry's post. If you have any specific criticism of their work, great, let's hear it in detail. If you haven't read any of it (which given your bluster- ring seems highly plausible) then please keep this kind of nonsense to yourself. I'm not that interested in the rantings and ravings of the few Vallee/Keel-devotees who can't stand the heat of criticism. __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Comparative Literature From: werd@interlog.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 19:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:52:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Comparative Literature >From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:55:28 -0700 >Subject: Comparative Literature >Hi All! >Does anyone know of any books, or even web pages, that >do a comparison between religous writings and ufology. >What I am looking for, is something that breaks down >the different influential appearances of "god" or >"angels", and also miracles, and compares these to >what we know today about ufos and abductions. >Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! >Sincerely, >Desiree Holloway - snake@mwaz.com Desiree, I hope this helps. "The Bible & Flying Saucers" by Barry H. Downing. "The Spaceships of Ezekial" by Josef F. Blumrich (Written by a scientist who takes Ezekial's description literally and re-constucts his "spaceship".) "Is Another World Watching" by Gerald Heard (Although not specifically a religious approach, it was written by someone who wrote many theologically-based books.) "Flying Saucers" by Paul Thomas (Translated from French by Gavin Gibbons. Mr. Thomas used many Bibles in his research) There is another book which unfortunately I can't remember the name of which generally summed up UFOs as demons. I wasn't inspired to by it at the time. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 20:27:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:53:25 -0400 Subject: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:14:52 -0300 > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 17:05:13 UT > > From: "Steve Bassett" <Paradigm_Research_Group@msn.com> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > > List members, > > I have attached a Word 6.0 file containing the <Petition for a 1997 Open > > Congressional Hearing on Modern UFO Evidence>. > > This petition may be downloaded, copied, recopied and distributed by any > > interested organization or individual. > > Thanks > > Steve Bassett > > Paradigm Research Group > I for one cannot possibly sign anything so broad in effect trying > to declassify every piece of technical data out there about flying > saucers, methods of detecting them etc. Should Khadafi and Hussein, for > example, be given all this stuff?? Remember there is a $30 Billion > annual black budget.. How about everything before l950?? > Stan Friedman Stan, Your points have some validity. Any suggestions on what you feel would constitute a more appropriate petition which would provide protection for national security concerns. Or perhaps you feel that this is not an appropriate mechanism at all. What would you propose? Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 1 Evidence of Life Outside Earth From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 22:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 23:25:21 -0400 Subject: Evidence of Life Outside Earth Dear List: I have not been receiving updates for the past several days, so I apologize [Kal's mailbox filled up - again - ebk] if posting this article is redundant, but I ran across this little article (below) which I thought I would pass along for what it's worth. I render no judgement or opinion on its veracity -- this is a line I will include in future posts so some of you don't think I endorse everything I happen to pass along to you for information's sake. I will be offline and on travel all next week, and will clarify the Phoenix situation when I return. I did NOT say that ALL the reports of "UFOs" in that area that night were due to flares, so those of you who have chastised me for doing so, please go spank yourselves and please use something that will hurt, draw blood and leave permanent scars on your collective behinds. Maybe next time you'll think twice before misunderstanding such a simple point. :-) As usual, I get tarred for being a "debunker" even though I simply passed along the article as an FYI because I thought it might be of interest. I got the story at 2AM as "hot" news and posted it so everyone would see it first thing in the morning. Was this WRONG of me?? While my PERSONAL opinion is that the objects at approximately 10PM were flares, (the pilots who flew the planes have been located AND INTERVIEWED FOLKS!) I readily admit I have NO EXPLANATION for the earlier "UFO" sightings and these at this point certainly don't look like flares to me. There, deal with it! I am off to Europe to go sneak into Billy Meier's UFO cult compound once again and then off to the UK to tend to some "alien" autopsy business. ;-) See you all on national TV next week during the daytime where we will reveal new information about presently classified UFO related documents. Those of you who think I am a debunker can stick these new documents up any part of your body you want to after you see these new gems. I would not try to talk about these documents nor be funding the effort to get them declassified if I indeed were a "debunker". Thanks again, Kal Evidence of Life Outside Earth A NASA physicist says he has found what may be the fossilized remains of extraterrestrial microorganisms in a meteorite, providing more evidence that life may have existed beyond Earth. Astrophysicist Richard Hoover said that while investigating samples of the Murchison meteorite that fell on Australia in 1969, he had found complex structures that appeared to be biological. Hoover cautioned that more study was needed and he could not say for sure where the microscopic structures came from. His work appears to support the findings of U.S. scientists who announced last year that they had found possible fossilized microbes in a meteorite from Mars. Korff Comment: I HOPE this turns out to be true and the results eventually verified scientifically and indisputably. It would prove most exciting. Konfuscious saying #22: To SOME in the UFO field, if you don't "believe" in EVERY UFO case or simply DISAGREE with others on certain UFO cases, you will be automatically labeled a debunker, even if it is not true.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO boo From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 20:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 00:04:17 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO boo > From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:39:19 PDT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > >Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:56:59 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > I'm sure you got the point without having had to read the last 5 or 6 > > paragraphs; you've been in this business longer than I have. But it might > > have more meaning for you if you were to consider that these occult > > byproducts of the UFO phenomenon are the same thing as UFO events of "high > > strangeness." Hynek probably preferred not to call them "occult" so as > > not to upset fellow astronomers and scientists any more than necessary. > > Ufology is not so much a branch of occultism as a phenomenon embodying > > occultism. > > Jim Deardorff > Jim, > I think you've pretty much made my point. Your reasoning > here, as I understand, is positively medieval. Anything not > immediately understandable must be, you assume, supernatural. Jerry, I don't know how you draw that conclusion, unless it's a matter of misunderstood words again, and definitions. Things that UFO aliens can do that we can't understand I don't treat as supernatural at all, merely as knowledge and know-how that we ourselves might acquire, given a few centuries or thousands of years of further development. In other words, future science -- quite natural, merely unkown by our present science. If you wish to call that "supernatural," I see no point in arguing over such. > There is little if any evidence for a UFO phenomenon > before the early nineteenth century. I urge you to read > Bullard's "Anomalous Aerial Phenomena Before 1800" > (in the second volume of my UFO Encyclopedia). And I would urge you to read _The God Hypothesis_ by Joe Lewels, or any number of relevant references in his book. > I hope no parapsychologists are on this list. When > you ask how anything could be more occult than mental > telepathy, you may have caused some poor soul to have > a heart attack. I doubt that a serious parapsychologist > in the world would characterize telepathy (assuming it > exists) as an "occult" phenomenon. It was precisely > that kind of thinking parapsychology came into being > to combat. Well, if it's not occult, how does it work -- what is its mechanism? Explain it to a mainstream psychologist, if not to me. I'm not calling it supernatural, however, just something we'll learn a lot more about in the future and with continued evolution. And if you're not even sure it exists, that should make it all the more "occult" for you. But many hundreds of abductees know it exists, along with their friends and investigators. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Kal Korff's 'Open Letter To Art Bell' From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 23:53:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 00:08:26 -0400 Subject: Kal Korff's 'Open Letter To Art Bell' Dear List: I received a telephone call from Art Bell earlier today DENYING that he has put pressure on various radio station affiliates that carry his show to keep me from being on their radio programs. Mr. Bell has challenged me to now come on his show and PROVE my allegations and address these and other various issues, which I have agreed to do. However, because I will be on travel next week, I will have to deal with this after I return. In the interim, at Mr. Art Bell's request, I have sent him the following letter to his AOL account, which I share here with you. I would like to state before closing that Art Bell should be commended for making this offer to me to come on his show and finally address these issues. What ultimately matters here is the truth, and I look forward to the opportunity to present the truth. The letter to Mr. Bell is enclosed below: Dear Mr. Bell: I am sorry that I missed your telephone call to my office earlier today, but today was the first day back (for me) after being gone for several days and I simply could not get caught up. I was behind all day in all my messages, and had to leave my office early because of the UPS strike threat, which affected my shipping of some packages overnight. I would also like to thank you for calling, because not only was it an unexpected pleasure, but it was the first time ever you have bothered responding to my inquiries. I really appreciate this. I have sent you emails in the past, but have never had a single reply, although my auto return receipt feature in AOL indicates someone on your end DID READ my messages. I am NOT implying anything here, sir, just letting you know the facts. I would be more than happy to re-send you these emails in case you never got them. You may find them of interest. Regarding your offer to me to appear on your show, I want you to know that I agree in principle to be on your show, it is indeed an honor. However, I will be on travel all next week, and will not be able to address this issue until after I return. In the interim, if you could please send me an address where I can send the appropriate documentation to you for my appearance on your popular show, we can start moving this process forward towards resolution. I would like an address from you, and will send two packages of documentation via overnight mail, and I will request that you personally sign for the package and will guarantee me IN WRITING that you will receive the material AND read it and ADDRESS it with me together on your show. If what you say is true Mr. Bell, that you never made any such calls or "threats" to these radio stations, then this should prove no problem for you. Thanks again for your fine offer and I commend you for your efforts. Looking forward to hearing from you soon, and resolving this matter, Sincerely yours, Kal K. Korff President and CEO, TotalResearch Author: "Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story" and the "The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You to Know" P.S. I will try and call you while on travel over the next few days. I have your confidential home telephone number, so hopefully I will be able to reach you. Also, you have my permission to read this letter on your show, but you must read ALL of it, not just excerpts. I have tried to keep it brief. If you do not read the entire letter, or chose to condense it, then my permission is withdrawn. What is important here, Mr. Bell, is the truth (as I am sure you would obviously agree) and that's why I would like this letter read in its' ENTIRETY so that no one (including myself) can misinterpret or selectively edit what I am saying. You also have my permission to post this letter on your web site, and next week I shall do the same on my web site and lots of other web sites. Thanks again, Kal
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 20:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 00:09:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez > Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:08:58 -0400 > On Tuesday, July 22, 1997 12:09 PM, UFO UpDates - Toronto > [SMTP:updates@globalserve.net] wrote: > > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:58:12 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with > > Velez > > > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:46:39 -0400 > > > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> > > > Subject: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > >Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:42:37 -0700 (PDT) > > > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with > > > >Velez > > > >The key example others here will likely point to also is the very > > > >high official within the U.N. who was abducted. > > > Well, allegedly abducted. But suppose he was, indeed. He - the > > > hapless P.J. de Cuellar, sometime Secretary General of the UN - also > > > denies it. > > > Now suppose he is denying it, and that it happened, but that he > > > duly took the aliens' and Linda's message to his bosom, and is now > > > deeply concerned about the fate of molluscs, fishes, &c. > > > Has anyone bothered to find out (a) what was de Cuellar's interest > > > in environmental matters before November 1989, and (b) whether he > > > has evinced any special interest or become more active in > > > environmental issues since? ... > > I don't think it's worth anyone's effort to try to find out, because > > not all abductees become environmentalists, because some people aquire > > a planetary outlook on their own without the necessity of being > > abducted, and because the absence of evidence would not be firm evidence > > of an absence of interest in ecology. Greg adds: > There's also good old-fashioned denial. That is, de Cuellar might > have been abducted, given environmental warnings, and decided after > an intial flurry of enthusiasm that the whole thing never happened, > and he should ignore it. He wouldn't be the first -- even outside the > arena of UFOs and abductions. Didn't that happen in tobacco companies > when they got the news about cigarettes and cancer? Greg, as already pointed out, PJdC denied it, quite some time ago. So the uncertainty of what one might find on the environmental front wouldn't carry much weight against a denial, as far as the public or skeptics are concerned. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:10:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 00:24:16 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:13:44 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) >Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >> From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >> Date: 31 Jul 97 16:18:55 EDT >> Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:00:06 -0400 >> Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >>> From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] >>> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT >>> To: updates@globalserve.net >>> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >>> In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs >>> do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric >>> phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. >> Maybe no one has bothered to try to refute these studies, because >> these studies are too ridiculous to take seriously. Why wast time >> refuting nonsense. >Bob, >You ignorance is showing again. >Rebecca =========================================================================== Shame on you Bob! Of course it's important, and very worthy of being taken seriously. _Anything_ that helps to shed some light on the nature of the abduction phenomenon is a positive step towards finding some answers. Jerry Clark and Eddie Bullard took the time to explore the possibilities that modern alien abduction accounts may in fact be an 'old' phenom in new clothes. "Waste of time" is hardly what I'd call it. It is basic research and contributes to the database in an area of inquiry where academic contributions are few and far between. Without guys like Bullard and Clark doing the 'grunt work' historical precedent for current abduction accounts would still be an unexplored open question. IMVHO, it is one that is high on the priority list of valid and important questions that need answering in regard to modern alien abduction reports. Disagreeing with their findings is one thing Bob, (actually that was what Clarks initial post was about, "Where were the challenges to their findings!") but rather than engage Jerry you smugly dismiss the 'value' of the work because _you personally_ feel that the whole concept is "ridiculous." The difference between people who have tattoo's and people who don't is, people who have tattoo's don't care if you don't have any! I guess it's the same when it comes to abduction, it's easy for folks who aren't having the experiences to simply dismiss or to file the whole subject under the heading of, "ridiculous." Not so for me and many others Bob. It's not simply an 'academic issue' for us. I not only wait for and welcome contributions such as Clark and Bullard have made, I am deeply grateful and I feel personally indebted to those guys for all of the hours, the hard work, and the personal resources they must have invested in order to do it. You just haven't given this issue the consideration it deserves, or at least you haven't tried to view it from someone elses point of view. I just completed a series of interviews with "Mendoza" (aka: P. Brooksmith) for a book he's writting on the subject of alien abduction. Peter's views and theories on the subject are diametrically opposed to my own interpretations. Peter thinks that we are all having experiences that _may_ have "psychological" roots, explanations and solutions. I believe that my experiences are real and based in 'objective' reality because of a "physical component" that many others do not acknowledge. We can't just blow each others ideas off because we disagree or worse yet choose to exhibit condescention or ridicule towards them, we'll never get anywhere that way. Mendoza may be right and I may be wrong, or vice versa. Or, it may turn out to have an explanation that no one has discovered yet! Who knows? The point is, that if I dismissed Peters views as "ridiculous" we'd never get to explore that avenue and discover whether there is any validity to his theories. I reiterate,_any_ steps taken responsibly in the direction of finding answers to the abduction phenomenon is more than a mere academic excercise, it is a bloody human service as far as I'm concerned! It's not so "ridiculous" to me Bob. Don't laugh at or ridicule what you don't understand Mr Shell. Try hard to keep an open mind. Believe me I know it's not easy (especially with a subject as outrageous as what myself and others are suggesting) and it takes a conscious act of will sometimes in order to actualize "open mindedness". I've said it before and I'll say it again, what is happening in my life today may happen in yours tomorrow. (Never) discount the possibility that we may simply be telling the truth. John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Kal Korff's 'Open Letter To Art Bell' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 01:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 01:23:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff's 'Open Letter To Art Bell' From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 23:53:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 00:08:26 -0400 Subject: Kal Korff's 'Open Letter To Art Bell' [letter snipped] Kal, One word: Smarmy. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 01:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 01:50:36 -0400 Subject: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 20:27:29 -0400 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:14:52 -0300 > > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > > > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 17:05:13 UT > > > From: "Steve Bassett" <Paradigm_Research_Group@msn.com> > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > Subject: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > > > List members, > > > I have attached a Word 6.0 file containing the <Petition for a 1997 > > > Open Congressional Hearing on Modern UFO Evidence>. > > > This petition may be downloaded, copied, recopied and distributed by > > > any interested organization or individual. > > > Thanks > > > Steve Bassett > > > Paradigm Research Group > > I for one cannot possibly sign anything so broad in effect trying > > to declassify every piece of technical data out there about flying > > saucers, methods of detecting them etc. Should Khadafi and Hussein, for > > example, be given all this stuff?? Remember there is a $30 Billion > > annual black budget.. How about everything before l950?? > > Stan Friedman > Stan, > Your points have some validity. > Any suggestions on what you feel would constitute a more appropriate > petition which would provide protection for national security concerns. > Or perhaps you feel that this is not an appropriate mechanism at all. > What would you propose? > Gary Alevy __________________________ One of the aspects of this particular petition is that it is narrowly focused on a basic concept - immunity provided for personal testimony on UFO related experience while in service to the United States. This is important in getting a substantial signature count in reasonable time. However, the petition leaves plenty of room for refinement of the presentation format of such a hearing. The idea is to get the attention of the legislative branch forceably while leaving room for valid security issues. Having said that, IMHO the current governing policy of our nation is erring on the side of too much covert action, stealth and restriction. There is also a danger there to the security for which Stanton is rightfully concerned. Steve Bassett Paradigm Research Group ParadigmRG@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 NASA Physicist Finds Evidence On Life In Space - From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 07:39:32 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 01:58:07 -0400 Subject: NASA Physicist Finds Evidence On Life In Space - >From the Nando Times: http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/080197/health12_9173.html Scientist finds evidence of life in space - maybe Copyright =A91997 Nando.net Copyright =A91997 Reuter Information Service=20 SAN FRANCISCO (August 1, 1997 8:33 p.m. EDT) - A NASA physicist said on Friday he had found what may be the fossilized remains of extraterrestrial microorganisms in a meteorite, providing more evidence that life may have existed beyond Earth. Astrophysicist Richard Hoover said that while investigating samples of the Murchison meteorite that fell on Australia in 1969, he had found complex structures that appeared to be biological. "It is potentially the case that it's signs of life from somewhere other than the planet Earth. That is a real possibility that must be considered," Hoover told Reuters in a telephone interview from San Diego. Hoover, an astrophysicist at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's George C. Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, cautioned that more study was needed and he could not say for sure where the microscopic structures came from. Hoover's work appears to support the findings of U.S. scientists who announced last year that they had found possible fossilized microbes in a meteorite from Mars. In a scientific paper presented at a conference in San Diego this week, Hoover said he had concluded that the Murchison meteorite contained "a population of indigenous microfossils," shaped like mushrooms, stalks or filaments. The mushroom-shaped bodies "are considered to represent the carbonized remains of biological forms," he wrote. Hoover obtained images of the forms using an environmental scanning electron microscope and analyzed them with x-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy. The bodies resembled some types of bacteria, but experts had been unable to identify them as known earthly microbial groups, Hoover said. He said the bodies resembled other unidentifiable forms found in another meteorite by earlier researchers. "It is concluded that this population of complex structures may represent remains of extraterrestrial microorganisms which lived within or contaminated the parent body of the Murchison meteorite at various times during the past 4.4 billion years," Hoover wrote. The parent body of the Murchison meteorite is unknown, but Hoover said there was strong evidence that it did not come from Earth, the moon or Mars and may have come from a comet or asteroid. He said the structures he had observed appeared to have arrived on Earth with the meteorite and not be something that found its way there after it landed. It was also possible that asteroid impacts on Earth billions of years ago could have catapulted materials from Earth into space and that any microfossils in the meteorite could have originated on Earth. But the same thing could have happened on Mars or another body, he said. "We are doing additional work to determine what (the structures) are ... and to determine if we can obtain carbon isotope measurements to give an idea of whether they are terrestrial or extraterrestrial in nature." He said that earlier this year a scientific team in Russia reported finding similar structures within the Murchison meteorite. Hoover said scientists must continue studying meteorites. "The meteorites are messages from space. They are bringing us information that we must study and learn, telling us where to go to seek conclusive proof for the existence of extraterrestrial life," he said. =20 Copyright =A91997 Nando.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 02:12:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 02:36:07 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/1/97 9:47 PM: > Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 15:37:57 -0700 > From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book =20 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:58:41 -0700 =20 > > > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:06:20 -0700 > > > From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book =20 > > > Physicists are beginning to prove that some form of > > > communication exists between particles that are separated in space. =20 > > This is not exactly a correct interpretation of the Bell theorem, or= the=20 > > EPR, as I understand it. > There are numerous sources, but here's one I have handy: =20 > "The Emperor's New Mind: Concerning Computers, Minds, and the Laws of > Physics", Roger Penrose. New York: Oxford University Press, c1989. pgs. > 364-365. According to Nick Herbert ("Quantum Reality", ISBN 0-385-23569-0), p214 "A non-local interaction links up one location with=20 another, without crossing space, without decay, and=20 without delay... despite physicists' traditional=20 rejection of non-local interactions, despite the=20 fact that all known forces are incontestably local,=20 despite Einstein's prohibition against superluminal=20 connections [because they would violate causality],=20 and despite the fact that no experiment has ever=20 shown a single case of unmediated FTL communication,=20 Bell maintains that the world is filled with=20 innumerable non-local influences..." =20 > > > Elements are being shown to have behavioural characteristics that= defy > > > identification (i.e. metals such as rhodium in high spin states are > > > transparent to identification devices and are being identified by= the > > > trace impurities contained within it - i.e. they are being= identified=20 =20 > I'm referring to the spin of the nucleus. When the nucleus becomes > deformed in a ratio of 2 to 1, it's spin slips to the high-spin state. > For more information, refer to the sources below: =20 > Sources: =20 > "Collective and Single Particle Structure of 103 Rh",... Since I don't have access to those journals, perhaps=20 you could supply a few relevant passages to=20 demonstrate your point that "metals such as rhodium=20 in high spin states are transparent to identification=20 devices". > > > Einstein's theory of Relativity is being seriously > > > challenged. > There are numerous sources, but I do not have all of them handy (many > were from Library books). Howver, here is one well-known source: =20 > "The Special Theory of Relativity: A Critical Analysis" , Louis Essen > (English Physicist), Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1971. =20 > On the Internet, check also: =20 > Mirza Abdullah Baig: http://www.eecs.uic.edu/~nbutt/ Quotes from the source make it clear how much=20 credence to put in this material (spelling=20 errors are the author's):=20 "Although there has been many critics of this=20 theory even the finest of them was not paid=20 due attention by the scientific community,=20 perhaps because it would demolish their own=20 work which some how had a basis in theory of=20 relativity. This behaviour is very understandable because=20 addmitting the baselessness of this theory=20 will have severe financial implications on the=20 research and scholarship funds alloted to the=20 defenders of this theory." "One of the strong=20 and sincere critics was Dr. Waldron who=20 systematically disproved every interpretation=20 induced into experiments on light to prove the theory of constancy of velocity of light in=20 vacuo. He also pointed out a fallacy in the=20 derivation of Lorentz Einstein Transforms and=20 proposed a Ballistic theory of light (This=20 theory, however does not explain diffraction, polarization and other wave properties of light)." So the speed of light in a vacuum is NOT a=20 constant? This would indeed be earthshaking. I=20 suspect Dr. Waldron "proved" nothing of the sort.=20 And the mercenary motives of scientists have=20 nothing to do with the relativistic effects on the orbit of Mercury, the distortion of light=20 passing near a massive body, the varying rates=20 of atomic clocks at a distance from a=20 gravitational field vs those near the center of=20 the field...or the many other standard and=20 well-repeated tests of relativity. "Still, there are some fundamental errors in the=20 physical concepts and mathematical derivations of=20 the theory of relativity that are the root cause=20 of confusion and nobody seems to have noticed=20 them. I will attempt to publish them on this=20 webpage as time permits me." The author is=20 obviously an unrecognized genius, and is wasted=20 as a mere MSME. > and =20 > Frank Lofaro: =20 > http://www.unlv.edu/~ftlofaro/strange/alt-sci/relativity-flaws-list.html "Hello, I am Frank Lofaro, a computer science=20 undergrad, in the Howard R. Hughes College of=20 Engineering at the University of Nevada, Las=20 Vegas (UNLV). I am also the President of the=20 UNLV Student Chapter of the Association for Computing Machinery (ACM) " "f a pilot pulls 3Gs why does he/she feel it, and not us=20 (we are accelerating relative to the plane). How does a=20 frame "know" if it is "inertial"? Acceleration is=20 measured relative to what? To some absolute? To an=20 ether? To the local gravitational field? Blasphemy!=20 (according to the religion, oops, theory of=20 relativity). If an electron is made to travel very fast=20 in a tight circle it emits X-rays, which are detected=20 even if the detector is moving likewise. But there is=20 not relative motion. The appeal to inertial reference=20 frames falls flat on its face, so there is a real=20 problem here."=20 " It just doesn't make sense on a "deeper" level.=20 Something as central as time can not change on a whim.=20 Maybe the experience of the passage of time changes=20 with speed, but does time change? Maybe only=20 radioactive decay slows with increasing speed=20 (explaining the muon effects), would a person=20 experience time slower? Maybe not." This is hardly a deep criticism of relativity. > > > Animals are able to communicate with humans and show > > > creative thinking processes similar to those of humans. =20 > > According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by > > who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? =20 > These are well-known experiments, conducted in "The Dolphin > Communication Project", headed by Dr. Dwight Wayne Batteau (Professor of > physics and mechanical engineering at Tufts and Harvard University) in > Arlington, Massuchusetts, and Cocunut Island, Hawaii. You can read about > it in: =20 > "Towards a New Alchemy: The Millenium Sciences", Dr. Nick Begich, > Anchorage, Alaska: Earthpulse Press, pgs. 61-65).=20 "The senior scientist on the project was my close=20 friend and business partner Dr. Dwight Wayne=20 Batteau, Professor of Physics and Mechanical=20 Engineering at Harvard and Tufts.... In the=20 Dolphin Project we developed the basis for many=20 potential new technologies. We were able to=20 ascertain the encoding mechanism used by the human=20 brain to decode speech intelligence patterns, and=20 were also able to decode the mechanism used by the=20 brain to locate sound sources in three dimensional=20 space. These discoveries led to the development of=20 a 3-D holographic sound system which could place=20 sounds in any location in space as perceived by the=20 listener. In other words it could be sent in a way=20 where the sound appeared to be coming right out of=20 thin air! "We also developed a Man-Dolphin language translator.=20 The translator was able to decode human speech so=20 that complex dolphin whistles were generated. When=20 dolphins whistled the translator would produce human=20 speech. We developed a communication system between=20 ourselves and the two dolphins we were working with=20 at that time. The dolphins were located in the lagoon=20 of a small island off of Oahu, Hawaii. We had offices=20 at Sea Life Park in Boston and commuted between the=20 points to test our various gadgets. "The Neurophone is available for immediate shipment.=20 roduction is in limited quantities. We offer a 30 day=20 money back guarantee and a 90 day warranty. The Neurophone is priced at $695 U.S."=20 -- Neurophone, http://www.xyz.net/%7Enohaarp/neuro.htm, Dr. Patrick Flanagan and Gael Crystal Flanagan Now, mind you, even with extremely powerful computers=20 and software, we can't do good translations between=20 human languages, but these people came up with a=20 "translator [that] was able to decode human speech so=20 that complex dolphin whistles were generated. When=20 dolphins whistled the translator would produce human=20 speech. We developed a communication system between=20 ourselves and the two dolphins we were working with=20 at that time". I don't find this very likely. Not to mention the complete lack of transcripts of=20 dolphin wisdom verified by the reproduction of their=20 research in independent labs. =20 > > > Humans have been > > > found to emit magnetic fields from the solar plexis while= experiencing > > > pain. I could go on and on, but the books above document my points. =20 > > According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by > > who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? > =20 > =20 > Source: > =20 > "Towards a New Alchemy: The Millenium Sciences", Dr. Nick Begich, > Anchorage, Alaska: Earthpulse Press, pgs. 114-115.=20 "Towards A New Alchemy The Millennium Science by Dr. Nick Begich The Ancient works of alchemy are transformed from the oldest arts to leading edge science. Exchanging elements and energy into new orders of matter. Towards a New Alchemy: The Millennium Science transcends this present age and leads us to the next renaissance in thinking and science. The present state of technology will open the next millennium with= incredible possibilities. The fantastic work of Dr. Patrick Flanagan is brought alive= in these pages which describe one of the most incredible scientists since Nikola= Tesla. The science is about energy; understood by many people in different times,= in different ways. These revolutionary technologies can significantly increase= our human potentials. Dr. Flanagan's inventions include: Electronic telepathy. Microcluster's=AE technology. Computer to human communications. New breakthroughs in electromedicine. The discovery of subtle energy in geometries. Holographic sound projection & speed learning. English communication with U. S. Navy dolphins. New Science direction for the future, & more. "=20 Again, this does not seem to be a credible source. > O.K. I've given you references, to satisfy your doubt. Note that the > references are not from the realm of the occult, which, contrary to > attacks by some of the Updates subscribers, I have never recommended! =20 > As I've said before, I simply recommend looking at BORDER-LINE SCIENCE > (I'm not shouting, only emphasizing, since subscribers repeatedly tend > NOT to acknowledge this statement) for IDEAS which may ASSIST in the > study of UFOs. Who cares whether these ideas have been proven by science > yet or not? I do. Let me explain why. Science works. Applying science to UFOs has the=20 potential to link the study of UFOs to the vast=20 array of knowledge built and proven by modern=20 science. We can use proven knowledge of plasma=20 physics, dynamics, materials, etc. to understand=20 the meaning of our observations. Or we can use=20 telepathy, hypnosis, channeling, Neurophones,=20 cold fusion, and the like, which will lead us=20 down a nest of garden paths that go nowhere even=20 close to a solution to this problem. Worse, yet, as we follow these distractions, we=20 alienate the resources of science which we need=20 to make progress. > It takes an enormous amount of effort and time to prove > anything, and if we wait until ideas are proven, in the interim we > cannot use these ideas to try to prove our case. It's the IDEAS and > THEORIES I'm talking about, not scientific proofs that happen to make it > past the scientific censors. In which case why not just make up anything and=20 decide we've solved the mystery and go home? > Now it's my turn: What PROOF have ufologists turned up about the > existence of UFOs? We know that: UFOs have weight. This weight has been measured=20 from ground traces, and the density of the UFO=20 has been calculated. UFOs have acceleration. This acceleration has=20 been calculated from observations of turns and=20 change in angular velocity. Based on measurements of weight and acceleration=20 we have a good idea of the thrust needed to=20 demonstrate UFO performance. UFOs make no sound and cause little ground=20 disturbance. Based on this fact and the thrust=20 needed, we can clearly determine that certain=20 methods of propulsion are not being used by UFOs. UFOs output visible light. Based on observations,=20 the quantity of power represented by these=20 emissions has been determined. UFOs output non-visible EM energies. Such=20 energies have been directly measured and can be=20 indirectly measured from cases of UV burn. UFOs are solid. They have been hit, touched,=20 entered. UFOs emit odors. Some of these are obviously=20 ozone. Others commonly reported may be=20 formaldehyde. UFO occupants appear to mostly be able to breathe=20 Earth's atmosphere mix and are bilaterally=20 symmetrical and humanoid. They use visible light for sensing and can hear sounds. Some seem=20 comfortable in the Earth's gravitational field=20 while others seem to use aids which allow them to "levitate". =20 > There should > be enough UFO evidence to convince anyone that this phenomenon is real. > But there is also a lot of evidence which seems to indicate that our > CURRENT scientific methodology cannot be used to detect the so-called > "object". I think the above listing is a refutation of that=20 view. The problem is that we haven't been doing=20 enough basic science. Too many are too busy trying=20 to find the "real answer" to actually do basic=20 science on the data. They're looking to the=20 government or the UFO source, or the channellers=20 to give them the answer, but the truth is that we=20 have to take our own initiative, because without it, we can't tell if anyone is telling us the truth. > Is there any harm in testing border-line scientific iseas on > the object? Not in place of scientific methdology, but as a way to > ENHANCE it.=20 Using speculation, carefully, does not violate=20 scientific methodology. But remember, we're supposed=20 to be trying to arrive at testable hypotheses, so we=20 can't use speculation as proof, we can only use it=20 to generate paths to testable hypotheses. On the other hand, using discredited or unprovable=20 material to work with an already difficult subject=20 just magnifies the problems of sorting the diamonds=20 from the quartz. > > Bedroom encounters, NDEs, etc don't seem to have enough objective > > value to be a proof. Psychic abilities in post-encounter witnesses have= =20 > > been claimed, but, to the best of my knowledge, never unambiguously=20 > demonstrated. =20 > That's just my point. UFOs have also never before been unambiguously > demonstrated to have enough objctive value to be a proof. I just don't > get your point. The point is that bedroom encounters, NDEs, OOBEs,=20 etc. are _subjective_ experiences. UFOs are=20 objectively visible, measurable, and thus are the=20 stuff of hard science. Subjective experiences are not. =20 > So it's UFOs first, then "high strangeness"? It's now an absolutely > proven fact that "high strangeness" has absolutely no reelevance to > UFOs? Please point me to the proof. As you yourself put it: > =20 > "According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by > who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal?" It's not proven that high-strangeness HAS relevance=20 to UFOs. You seem to misplace the burden of proof here.=20 If you assert there is a relationship, you need to=20 demonstrate it. Subjective experiences are qualitatively different from=20 objective experiences. Most aspects of high-strangeness=20 cases are subjective - psychic abilities, OBEs,=20 interpretation of personal encounters as MiB, etc.=20 Communications from the occupants have been somewhat=20 strange, but few even of those cases are multiple=20 witness cases. Thus, even their probability rating on=20 the S/P must be 3 or below. Weirder cases often have=20 even lower P. Many high strangeness cases have broken under pressure,=20 and part of the trouble is that with a probability of 3=20 or less, even those which survive are not as credible=20 as good daylight or close encounter sightings. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: "Gary Mont" <gem@mulberry.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:22:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 02:44:43 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Date: Friday, August 01, 1997 11:54 AM > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:13:44 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) > Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > > Date: 31 Jul 97 16:18:55 EDT > > Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:00:06 -0400 > > Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > >> From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] > >> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:57:50 PDT > >> To: updates@globalserve.net > >> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > >> In separate studies Eddie Bullard and I have shown why UFOs > >> do not seem to be related to other anomalous or folkloric > >> phenomena. No one has attempted a serious refutation. > > Maybe no one has bothered to try to refute these studies, because > > these studies are too ridiculous to take seriously. Why waste time > > refuting nonsense. > Bob, > Your ignorance is showing again. Tsk tsk! That aint ignorance! Tis the New Scientific Method. Investigate ONLY what is already fully understood, and there is no chance of error! Simple really. Perfectly maintains the public image of Scientific Infallibity. Also discludes any need to report on findings which actually contradict prior Scientific Truths, since Scientists need not admit that they were investigating an unknown, and thus may freely hide such results. Tis referred to as the Scientician Method. Especially useful for those scienticians whose true loyalty is to the Industry that pays their bills. G.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 TorStar - Close encounter with sincerity on an From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:34:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:34:04 -0400 Subject: TorStar - Close encounter with sincerity on an From: The Toronto Star http://www.thestar.com/editorial/entertainment/970801ENT02_PEVERE-2.html Saturday, August 2, 1997 Entertainment Section Close encounter with sincerity on an ironic planet by Jeff Pevere For all its seriousness and moist-eyed sincerity, is it possible that Contact - the movie in which a lonely, orphaned scientist played by Jodie Foster travels to another galaxy to have a decidedly low-tech philosophical encounter with a form of extraterrestrial intelligence - is the bravest Hollywood movie of the summer Indeed, is it the seriousness and sincerity of the movie that makes it the bravest Hollywood movie of the summer? One can't help but wonder. In this summer of the shenanigans of Men In Black, Contact arrives like a minister at a stag party. Two things open this avenue of speculation. First of all, there is the vigorously mixed reaction the movie - the first from director Robert Zemeckis since the lumpy but Zeitgeist-capturing Forrest Gump - has generated among critics, who seem evenly split into camps labelled "Awesome" and "Icky". Typical of the latter campers is The New Yorker's wickedly entertaining Anthony Lane, who seemed to speak for a lot of professional moviegoers when he complained that Contact's biggest problem is its utter, and utterly unfashionable, lack of irony. Indeed, there's nary so much as a single pair of Ray-Bans to be spotted in the movie's entire 140-minute length Mustering faint praise for the moment in Contact when the earthbound scientists are horrified to find that images of the 1936 Berlin Olympics are being beamed from somewhere deep in outer space - turns out Hitler's Olympics were the first TV images ever sent spaceward - Lane then cocks the hammer: "The sad thing is that this represents the final moment at which the movie makes contact with the forces of irony" "From here on in, naivete rules." And naivete, it would seem, is not good. Then there is the timing of this aggressively un-sensational excursion into the metaphysics of extraterrestrial life. In this summer of the cheeky, what-me-worry, alien-busting shenanigans of Men In Black, it arrives like a minister at a stag party, or maybe Dan Hill on the main stage of Lollapalooza. I mean here we are, a full two decades since Steven Spielberg last waxed metaphysical about otherworldly fanaticism in Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, and a year after Will Smith kicked E.T.'s butt in Independence Day, and along comes this movie that actually wants us to think? Just when we were happily blowing E.T.s to slime-bits? Of all the bleeding gall. Not that Contact is a great movie. Far from it. The defining relationship - Foster's devotion to her soft-spoken, flannel shirted dad (David Morse) - seems like something conjured from an unholy voodoo resurrection of Thirty-something. And her love interest with the impossible hunky new-age evangelist (Matthew McConaughey) doesn't rank much higher on the old cred-o-meter. And, by the way, is there any other contemporary star who bears the sheer weight of celebrity conscientiousness with more pinched, anti-glamorous dutifulness than Foster? Whatever happened to the precociously cocky child-star of The Courtship Of Eddie's Father and Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore anyway? Kidnapped by aliens, perhaps, and replaced by some kind of intergalactic bore? But that's not the point, for it's not so much the movie's dramatic flaws that seem to irk the likes of Lane as it is the movie's bald irony deficiency. In a word, it doesn't wink. On the contrary, Contact dares to swim against the prevailing pop-cultural tides simply by taking itself and its subject - a subject we've been conditioned to laugh at or be spooked by - as seriously as Foster would appear to take her career. (Or as seriously as the late Carl Sagan, author of the novel that Contact is based on, took the possibility of alien life.) Now we laugh at everything, the better to keep anxiety on the periphery and cash registers beeping By now, Hollywood movies have refined their escapist function to address a new therapeutic need. Where we once went to movies to escape the alleged drabness of our daily lives, now they offer an escape from seriousness They aim at offering relief from the responsibility of thinking much about the w orld beyond the concession stand. Don't worry, they tell us, laugh it off and go shopping. So now we laugh at everything; the better to keep fear and anxiety on the periphery and the better to keep those cash registers beeping with giddy obliviousness. We laugh at violence, politics and spirituality, but we laugh at nothing so much as seriousness itself. In this cultural context, either the greatest crime or the boldest move is simply to be earnest. That's why, if ever the aliens ever do make contact, they'd better have a damned good routine prepared. Geoff Pevere can be reached at perverse@astral.magic.c
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Colorado MUFON Meeting From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 01:02:58 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:41:50 -0400 Subject: Colorado MUFON Meeting Hi List, The Colorado Division of the Mutual UFO Network will hold it's State Meeting Saturday Aug. 9 1997 at 2040 S. Race St. Room 240 (on the University of Denver Campus) from 1-4 P.M. Open to the public. Colorado MUFON (303) 451-5992
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Picture of UFO from Ringgold, Georgia From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios] Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 03:15:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:46:37 -0400 Subject: Picture of UFO from Ringgold, Georgia http://www.artbell.com/ufos3.html UFO spotted on June 4th, 1997 in Ringgold Georgia by Lee Cross. Actual photo scanned for the web by Art Bell. 'A genius is somebody who was a crackpot until his ideas caught on.' At the end of all our searching, we will arrive at the beginning and know the place for the first time. UFO spotted on June 4th, 1997 in Ringgold Georgia by Lee Cross. Actual photo scanned for the web by Art Bell.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: "Gary Mont" <gem@mulberry.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 03:00:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:51:52 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:04:12 -0400 > Not that I don't enjoy the lovely threads my post gave rise to.... > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > > Hi Jerry and List, > > I don't want to speak for Greg Sandow, but I believe the original > > idea was to suggest that the artist was incorporating some earlier > > abduction experience into his work as might have other artists. > > Back in the fifties, to suggest that you were being abducted by aliens > > meant a quick trip to "Belvue"(sp) and some new clothing, such as a > > straight jacket. There is nothing to suggest that the abduction > > phenomena started only with Betty and Barney Hill, but like the UFO > > phenomena itself probably goes back much farther than suspected. > > Artists have been painting images of their dreams and their > > interpretations of society's delemma since the first artist used > > charcoal to make images on cave walls. It comes as no surprise to > > me that this particular artist, perhaps tortured by these visitations > > and having no outlet as abductees have today, chose to vent his > > frustration on his canvas. > > Don Ledger > Yep. Don has expressed my original thought. One would think, if those > little gray buggers have been visiting us for any length of time, > that someone would have reproduced their image. (Sure would be fun to > find it unambiguously in a cave painting somewhere.) sigh.... once again, try Z. Sitchin. In antiquity, they were known as the Watchers - which sort of says a lot about their 'position' of reference. The little statues have been collected from all over the globe - and yes, they resemble our modern greys very very much. The UFO phenomena did not begin in the 50s. The UFO Reporting Phenomena did however. Most folks avoid Sitchin, because he proposes a non-divine origin. Actually he simply tells a tale that is 1000s of years old, as told by the Sumerians. Natheless, t'is a story absolutely nobody wants to accept, since it leaves humanity without a nice after-death-scenario. However, it gives some pretty interesting clues to who the Nordics, and the Greys actually are. And oddly enough, they do indeed be somewhat genetically compatible with humans. It is also a story which, no matter which way the wind blows, you WILL eventually have to hear. G.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Comparative Literature From: "Gary Mont" <gem@mulberry.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 03:23:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:51:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Comparative Literature > From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:55:28 -0700 > Subject: Comparative Literature > Hi All! > Does anyone know of any books, or even web pages, that > do a comparison between religous writings and ufology. > What I am looking for, is something that breaks down > the different influential appearances of "god" or > "angels", and also miracles, and compares these to > what we know today about ufos and abductions. > Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! This may not be exactly what you seek, but Zecharia Sitchin's Earth Chronicles are an in depth comparison of ancient religious texts and Sumerian cuineform tablets which the religious texts were derived from. The set contains six books: The 12th Planet Stairway to Heaven Wars of Gods and Men The Lost Realms When Time Began Divine Encounters and a companion book called Genesis Revisited. Good luck! >:> G.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Oates believes Corso telling truth From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios] Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 03:58:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:56:01 -0400 Subject: Oates believes Corso telling truth http://www.reversespeech.com/ Check out Corso voice analysis under Roswell section further down homepage. This was on Art Bell last night. I'm sure there's going to be controversy about this. According to Bell, Oates has been nominated for a "Nobel award". 'A genius is somebody who was a crackpot until his ideas caught on.' At the end of all our searching, we will arrive at the beginning and know the place for the first time.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Aug 97 10:17:21 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:59:51 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:10:00 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >Shame on you Bob! > Of course it's important, and very worthy of being taken >seriously. _Anything_ that helps to shed some light on the nature >of the abduction phenomenon is a positive step towards finding some >answers. John, Rebecca, and all, You are absolutely right. Once again I am cursed by the fact that this medium does not allow for good expression of inflection and nuance. I intended that as a flippant, sarcastic comment, but when I went back and re-read it, it comes off as boorish and arrogant. (Not that I can't be both!). Anyway, I guess I should learn to keep my mouth shut when I don't have time to write a detailed response. Let me state for the record that I believe that the UFO phenomenon is real, that the abduction phenomenon is real, and that I think both predate written human history. I think there is abundant historical evidence for both ideas. I think the western magical tradition stems from a long relationship between humans and other intelligences, but as to whether these intelligences are "aliens" in the sense used here, I do not know, and have my doubts about. I have yet to see any need to bring in the extraterrestrial hypothesis to explain anything. And, to answer someone else's comment, yes, I do give equal validity to the "occult" books I mentioned and the scientific books others have listed in attempting to understand this phenomenon. Both are based on mythologies, just different ones. We call one "magic" and the other "science". Until we have a melding of the two, we will not have any real understanding of the universe we live in. No more time just now. In the middle of a book deadline (not UFO related) and busy getting a web site up and running (not UFO related either.) Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Alfred's Odd Ode #163 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 10:08:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 12:01:04 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #163 Apology to MW #163 (For August 2, 1997) I'm honing edges of something. Though I don't have an ax to grind. It's the marriage imagination makes, With it's calculating mind. Here is the process encountered. . . What if cockroaches helped us stay well? With micro exposures to organic worlds We could fight off the big bugs, in a healthy state dwell. But "ick", and "oooo", and "ahhh," a cockroach! Slimy-gooey-filthy keep away! "You are disease that's come to haunt me" "You are the *world* that's wrong today." Well, if we really hate the cockroach! We should hate to insure demise! . . .Should try to breed them like our pure breds,=20 And breed them weak -- without men die. . . Think pets of male roaches, released in your home. Gaily colored, flying beauties, but hunting gals. For these boys are unloaded and are only shooting blanks. And the house roach has been banished to seek her forest pals. Ask any entomologist, or motion study person. . . And the cockroach is a college we can study. A professor half a billion years has plethora to teach us, Without genocidal nerve gas, or chemicals so bloody. This process has arisen over Christian world view, For Christians rally hard, the world despise. Beneath the *noble human* lies the insect, cold -- inhuman.=20 Which must be conquered -- overridden . . . no surprise. Forgetting immunity lost in divide. Forgetting chemical linger. . . =20 Forgetting the danger you set for yourself! Forgetting natures stinger! The whole of all nature's a biological entity. Like _your_ body is living defiance! Caught with a bug your body fight's back. . . You're the Earth's bug; you'll be fought, with reliance! This is not the way it has to be. Use some concern, and respect. The watchers above us are gagging on spoons! A concert with nature is what they'd suggest. Do this thing and saucers . . . will appear in all our skys! They'll swoop and dart, and wobble wily capers. . . Do this thing discovering that the past is based on lies. Then read some real truth in all your papers. Lehmberg@snowhill.com That would be refreshing -- truth in the news paper. --=20 Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for throwing the money changers from the temple. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Akron Beacon Journal - Russians Arrive at From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 97 10:17:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 12:05:38 -0400 Subject: Akron Beacon Journal - Russians Arrive at Subject: Fwd: July 31, 1997 Russians arrive in U.S. to check military sites They'll fly over once-sensitive areas in preparation for Open Skies Treaty Associated Press DAYTON: The Cold War went into full meltdown yesterday as 11 Russian officials landed at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Lawmakers and arms control officials who were once poised to unleash war on each other shook hands on the tarmac. The group, including four members of the Duma - the Russian legislature - took no questions from waiting reporters but the Air Force said *they will be joined by 15 Russian soldiers* in a U.S. fly-over aboard an unarmed, camera-equipped observation plane in preparation for the pending Open Skies Treaty. The treaty negotiated between NATO and the former Warsaw Pact nations was designed to give countries a better understanding of each side's military posture and proof that no nation is preparing for battle. The pact has not taken effect; three countries, *including Russia,* have not yet voted on ratification. "They've been asking a lot of questions," said Joerg Menzel, principal deputy director of the On-Site Inspection Agency. "Can we fly over the Pentagon? The answer is yes. Can we fly over the White House? The answer is yes. Can we fly over a nuclear reactor? The answer is yes." The agency is part of the Defense Department, and is responsible for the verification provisions of U.S. arms-control and confidence-building agreements. Menzel said the Russians plan to first fly over an area north of the base. Other flights will take them south to Robbins Air Force Base in *Georgia* and then over *Florida, probably to view naval installations along the shores of those two states,* Menzel said. "They've chosen a flight route that gets them over areas that planes would not normally be allowed to fly," he said. "It is *their choice where they fly."* However, Menzel said the plane is only allowed to fly so low and use cameras of limited power. For example, he said, the Russians would be able to see planes on the ground, but not equipment on the aircraft. Menzel said he hopes the flights convince the Russians to sign on to the treaty. "We see it as a very positive sign, the fact that they've undertaken this step to do a joint trial flight with the United States," he said. [END] [VNN]: NOTE - This past weekend WHIO-TV news said a "convoy" would be traveling (at an extremely low speed) between the hours of 1 am and 10am from a Dayton airport to Wright-Patterson AFB. No other word on what kind of "cargo" was brought in.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 BWW Media Alert 970731 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 97 10:31:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 12:08:08 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970731 >From: BufoCalvin@aol.com >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:43:31 -0700 >Subject: BWW Media Alert 970731 >Wednesday, August 6 >SYNDICATED RADIO, ART BELL interviews Bob Guccione, publisher of >HUSTLER MAGAZINE and OMNI (see website at > http://www.artbell.com for more info) Uh... Bufo.... What you been smoking? I want some! :) Sparks fly when Flint strikes steel. :-D ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Jacques Poulet's comments re Quebec Skeptics From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 11:56:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 12:13:10 -0400 Subject: Jacques Poulet's comments re Quebec Skeptics From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet@generation.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:07:44 Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:53:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Has the Quebec Skeptics Society disbanded? >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:12:28 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Has the Quebec Skeptics Society disbanded? ------- Hello Jacques ... I wrote: >JC: Can anyone solve the following mystery? > >Another month goes by and no reply from "Les Sceptiques du >Quebec." (The total is now 5 months, but... who's counting?) The >total silence is almost deafening.... But perhaps I missed a reply. ... >JC 7/21/97: Pierre-Normand, does your silence mean your group >accepts the majority of the researched information in the >Oberg/Cooper rebuttals? We don't have to do this all at once. We can >take one essay at a time. ------- Then you commented: Hi Jerry, You're wasting your time. Our group has been dealing with "Les Sceptiques du Quebec Inc" for some years now and has always been disappointed. They NEVER investigate anything interesting. They'll waste time debunking a "call-up astrology line" but will not try to understand what had happened to M. X (who found a missing boy (all documented by police reports)), what was seen over the Bonneaventure Hotel (by very many witnesses, including journalists and policemen (there is an excellent report on this case)), etc. They DON'T know of the works of Montrealers like Bernard Grad (who has studied psychic powers in a university laboratory), Jean Rock Laurence (who has made an extensive psychiatric study of abductees), Louis Belanger (who has investigated a great number of paranormal phenomenon). All of these are professor at universities and are all very serious. They BELIEVE in the all mighty Science, omnipotent and omniscient. What they were thought is what is real. Stop wasting your time. Bye, Jacques Poulet, Directeur "SOS OVNI Quebec" Case Postale 143 St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Qc CANADA J3B 6Z1 Phone:(514)536-0140 Fax:(514)536-0141 HTTP://www.cam.org/~martinc/index.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Dear Jacques, This most certainly is _not_ a waste of time. I am establishing for this mail list, a track record of skeptical individuals & groups and how they respond to serious literature in the field. This should be of extreme relevance to any concerned, open-minded individuals examining this information for themselves, so they may draw their individual conclusions concerning "where we are at" in understanding UFO phenomena; and the amount of effort (or lack of it) some of us have made in this regard. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Another Question for Kal From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 18:06:54 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 20:25:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 06:59:23 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Another Question for Kal >Kal, we know you wrote, not one, but two books. We know >that you are not a debunker I believe that you are only speaking for yourself here, because you know I don't agree with your statement. There are others here that also think he's a debunker... or perhaps a gov't disinformation agent (just like your friend Kent) <g> I wonder how he sees smoke from these "flares" if the videos are taken at 10pm from a distance of 300+ feet? How does he prove these are "flares" when the videos show the lights hover in place? Naah, he couldn't be a debunker. He's just simply mistaken. I wonder how many books one needs to write to be considered a serious researcher, and not a debunker? <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: SETI@home From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 18:06:58 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 20:26:46 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI@home >Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 08:24:13 -0500 >From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: SETI@home >Maybe you've heard of this, but it was news to me. Check out: >http://www.bigscience.com/setiathome.html >"SETI@home is a grand experiment to harness the spare power of >hundreds of thousands of Internet-connected computers in the >Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI.) >When the experiment launches in Spring 1998, computer users from >all over the world will be able to participate in a major scientific >experiment. >Each participant has the slight but captivating possibility that >his or her computer will detect the faint murmur of a civilization >beyond Earth." Vega. Come in Vega. Do you read me? Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book From: DianaOmega@aol.com [Dianne Cameron] Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 20:30:53 -0400 Subject: Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book > > Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 15:37:57 -0700 > > From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:58:41 -0700 Hi John, In a message dated 8/2/97 1:24:26 AM, you wrote: > > Einstein's theory of Relativity is being seriously > > challenged. > By who? According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by > who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? There are numerous sources, but I do not have all of them handy (many were from Library books). Howver, here is one well-known source: You might find more fuel for your arguments in Hal Puthoff's work. For example Physics Essays, vol 9, number 1, 1996: SETI, the Velocity-of-Light Limitation, and the Alcubierre Warp Drive: An Integrating Overview Dianne Cameron
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmeeth] Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:22:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 20:58:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez The Duke of Mendoza looks deep into your eyes with all the dewy-eyed innocence of a used car salesman, and presents his compliments. >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:08:58 -0400 >Besides, as has been pointed out by someone else, the warnings >(assuming for the moment that abductions are real, etc.) might not >even be true. They could be alien disinformation. ... Too damn right. I think fondly of the waffle about bivalves eating basalt, or words to that effect, that Budd dutifully records in "Witnessed" and implies he will investigate, and never does. Now that is what I call disinformation. However, unashamedly pistol-packing, Sobranie-smoking and concrete-livered officer (field rank) of the New World Order as I am, I know our seas are in a sorry state, and that shellfish are regarded by marine biologists as barometers of pollution. It's pretty obvious that it would be better were the seas to be clean not filthy, and that the more filth in the seas, the unhappier the fish - and, eventually, us. Likewise it's obvious that my lungs would be happier were they not the object of my personal campaign to alter their hue from their original pristine pink to one more closely matching the color of my heart. In other words, the essential issues about pollution are not disinformation, even if the scene in which Linda allegedly accosted Javier with a dead fish gives fresh meaning to the term "codswallop". > ...So it's a little >naive -- imagine that; naivete from Peter Brookesmith, of all people >-- to think that a prominent abductee MUST react to alien >environmental cautions. Gawd strewth, spare me days. I didn't say Javier PdeC MUST react to *anything*. I said that if he HAD had a change of heart (however this may be established) then those inclined to believe he was abducted on the night in question would have a small piece of circumstantial evidence on their side. (Imagine *that*! "SKEPTIC RECANTS! Dread Duke Mondoz supports Linda case!" would be as accurate an interpretation of what I actually said as the above from Greg.) >De Cuellar's environmental record doesn't prove a thing. And: >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 20:55:02 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez >Greg, as already pointed out, PJdC denied it, quite some time ago. >So the uncertainty of what one might find on the environmental front >wouldn't carry much weight against a denial, as far as the public or >skeptics are concerned. Quite so. But I also predicted that whatever the result of the enquiry there would be much argy-bargy, charivari and eager flesh-ripping among the usual factions in the chicken house as to what it meant. Which was the "subtle" underlying point. Perhaps too subtle? And what do we hear: anxious clucking on two sides even before poor ole Javier has even been put to the test. Even sooner than I - mmm, naively - expected. Tee hee. At least these old roosters are beginning to show some resistance to the wretched habit of inductive reasoning that plagues ufology (for the grossest example ever, see the ghastly Roper Poll). Yours &c Popadom D. Murgh-Masala Hopeless Romantic
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Comparative Literature From: "Paul Stuart" <pcstuart@pathcom.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 16:28:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 21:07:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Comparative Literature >From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:55:28 -0700 >Subject: Comparative Literature > Hi All! > Does anyone know of any books, or even web pages, that > do a comparison between religous writings and ufology. > What I am looking for, is something that breaks down > the different influential appearances of "god" or > "angels", and also miracles, and compares these to > what we know today about ufos and abductions. > Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! Desiree, Another book on the subject that gets right to the point is 'Extraterrestrials in Biblical Prophecy' written by G. Cope Schellhorn. Inner Light Publications, 1990. He's written several books on this subject. Paul Stuart
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 DISPATCH #61 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 16:44:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 21:11:38 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #61 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #61 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 8/2/97 Quote of the Week "I think we owe him an apology. I don't think any apology is sufficient when somebody has gone through what Mr. Jewell has gone through. What I need to do is to make sure that we take steps to try to avoid something like that in the future. Anytime a situation occurs where there is a leak and it subjects a person to such public focus, I'm sorry it happened. I think that's an apology. If I could see Mr. Jewell, I would apologize to him. What I'm concerned about is that he was the subject of such public attention. I don't think that's right. With respect to the other issues, the OPR report should speak for itself." --U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno "apologizing" to Richard Jewell for leaking his name, but refusing to apologize for trying to trick him into signing away his Constitutional rights during an FBI investigation of the Olympic Park bombing last summer. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "The Choice Is Yours" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Gilda" of Alien Technolodgy [sic] Research explains how she can build a working flying saucer but still can't spell "technology." Enjoy! "Hello. I am a representative for the Alien Technolodgy Research center of Pittsburgh. We deal with alien tech that has not yet been released to the public. I realize you are a site for people who want to believe in the existance of extraterrestrials and are the most visited site by ufo fanatics. That is why I am contacting you. There has been talk for a long time about the alien autopsy film. I have contacted you to confirm the authenticity of this tape. It was our men who performed that autopsy. We regret that we performed this operation on a friend of the earth. We were not certain how to tend to our friends specific needs therefore they allowed us to perform a complete autopsy on an expired member of their crew. We have not released this information until now because we were studying how the public reacted to the video released by our own camera man. If there are any questions about ATR or the message sent please contact me." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Win a Trip to the X-Files Set! You and a friend could be the lucky winners who get to visit the Vancouver, British Columbia set of the X-Files! ParaScope is teaming with Fox to bring you this amazing offer, including 100 first prize winners who'll take home an X-Files book. Call the neighbors, fetch the kids and wake the dog, because starting next week, you'll be able to enter this exciting new contest! Watch the AOL and web main screens for details. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Go Postal and Win a 266-Mhz Dell Computer! Now is also your chance to win a brand new 266-Mhz Dell computer with Pentium II MMX processor and all the latest accessories. Just find the "Postal" banner on the ParaScope sites, click on it, and fill out the application to download Postal, the latest and greatest carnage-fest shoot-em-up game to hit the Net. And 100 other lucky winners will get other prizes. So go "Postal" and win a new computer, and have fun in the process! 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 21:39:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 22:39:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Regarding... >Date: 25 Jul 97 08:35:58 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Bob wrote: >As I indicated in my post, I have neither the time nor the interest >in debating any of this. Bob, It was yourself who brought up the claims which are shown to be misleading, although unintentionally, I'm sure. >Larry Cate's statement which I mentioned was made less than a month >ago. He says he does not remember what was on the film he examined. It would be helpful if you could substantiate what Cate actually said. According to an interview given by Laurence Cate, almost two years ago to the day, he didn't examine any images on the film at all. He confirmed: "What happened was... two gentlemen came into my office and they asked someone to look at a piece of film they have in a 16mm film can. One of the old Kodak film cans that are very common". "I told them that I couldn't do a scientific investigation but that I could look at the edge print". "It was a print that I saw. It was black and white 16mm and I remember it as being a print film. But it was a very quick... it was not a thorough investigation". "I just looked at it for maybe 30 seconds. It was very quick". "I didn't really look at the image area. I never looked at what the images were". I suggested that you don't actually know if there were any images on that piece of film, or why Chris Cary was in Hollywood with a supposed reel of "alien autopsy" footage. As such, your contention that Cate examined a reel of "the" film has no basis in fact. No need for any debate, unless you contend otherwise. >If you don't believe that Ray could have forgotten or not known who >did the processing of the film, it just shows how little you really >know about this whole subject. The question was, why haven't you asked Mr Santilli for an explanation? Some time after you had confirmed the "Rank in London" processing claims, Ray was in one of his infrequent talkative phases and discussed a number of relevant issues on the CompuServe MUFON forum. I mentioned this anomaly and asked: "Although you had not provided any such details, Bob Shell confirmed that he had asked you in person about this and that, "Film to video transfer was done in London by Rank." He further clarified that, "There was then a general conversation in the office as to who had ultimately done the work. Ray said something like "We ended up having it done by Rank, didn't we?" and Chris said something like, "yes, it was Rank. I'm pretty sure it was Rank."" A simple question really; why did Rank in London confirm they had no knowledge of any such work?" To which Ray responded: "The film was transferred here in the UK. I will discuss your request with the facilities House tomorrow and if they are happy for me to disclose their name (which they haven't been) I will pass it on. Now the dust has settled a little they may not mind". Privately, I offered Ray the opportunity to disclose, in complete confidence, the name of the "facilities house" which had allegedly carried out the delicate transfer from "crumbling" 16mm film to video. If he was prepared to do so and arrange that I would contact them for verification, I said I would publicly confirm that verification, without revealing the name of the facilities house. Ray was ostensibly enthusiastic about this idea and agreed there was no reason why it couldn't be pursued forthwith. Ultimately, no name was forthcoming. At a later date, I again asked Ray if he would provide a straightforward explanation, however, that was abortive also. It's appreciated that you are under no obligation to follow this up and it would perhaps be somewhat "awkward" in view of your acknowledged personal stake. One thing we do know, is that according to Rank in London, they did not process any "archive" film as claimed and no explanation for that claim, or any other named "facilities house", has evidently been offered by Ray Santilli. Did you really address this in your above comments... If the video is a bogus promotion, then we should expect to find some telling evidence and as things stand, it seems your question to Ray was unexpected and brought an "off the cuff" response which you weren't expected to pass on and when you did, Graham and I exposed the claim for what it was. If you ever have any evidence to the contrary, no doubt you will say so. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Another Question for Kal From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 22:46:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 23:06:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal At 08:25 PM 08/02/97 -0400, Roger R. Prokic wrote: >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 18:06:54 GMT >Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Another Question for Kal >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: XianneKei@aol.com >>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 06:59:23 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Another Question for Kal >>Kal, we know you wrote, not one, but two books. We know >>that you are not a debunker >I believe that you are only speaking for yourself here, >because you know I don't agree with your statement. >There are others here that also think he's a debunker... >or perhaps a gov't disinformation agent (just like your >friend Kent) <g> There are those of us who are wondering if Kal will not only respond to Rebecca's two posts addressed to him, but post supporting documentation that "proves" that Art Bell "conspired" to keep him off the radio and prevent him from telling "the truth about the Phoenix sightings". Two EXCELLENT questions that Roger asks: >I wonder how he sees smoke from these "flares" if the >videos are taken at 10pm from a distance of 300+ feet? >How does he prove these are "flares" when the videos >show the lights hover in place? Yes, indeed, Mr. Korff, please do elucidate. While you're at it, please do give a detailed explanation how it's possible that _airborne_ flares are capable of remaining motionless in _one_ spot for quite some time. The laws of Physics say otherwise. Please do not insult my intelligence by claiming that the parachute was being held aloft by virtue of the thermal energy produced by a flare. That's even MORE lame than the pathetic excuse of the "Roswell dummies" that the USAF trotted out. And Kal, while you're at it, please give us details on what Phoenix Sightings investigations YOU personally undertook, WHAT witnesses YOU interviewed, which INVESTIGATORS you contacted and the degree of field research YOU conducted. I'm sure we'd all like to know. The list is fully aware of Bill Hamilton and Tom King's hands-on research. The question is, what is yours? And Kal, quit BS'ing the list cos we know you're "I'm so busy" excuses got old some time back. Any of us who do shipping knew damned well full in advance over 4 weeks ago that a UPS strike was possible. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 2 Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 22:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 23:15:54 -0400 Subject: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations Subj: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations Date: 97-08-02 22:37:37 EDT From: AOL News BCC: RSchatte .c The Associated Press WASHINGTON (AP) - With growing hysteria over alleged UFO sightings in the 1950s, the Air Force repeatedly concocted false cover stories to hide the fact that their super-secret spy planes had been spotted, an intelligence study says. Historian Gerald K. Haines writes that the Air Force, responding to alleged UFO sightings during the Cold War years, frequently provided explanations that were untrue to deflect attention away from the spy planes. ``Over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the 1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights (namely the U-2) over the United States,'' Haines wrote in the spring issue of Studies of Intelligence, an unclassified CIA journal. The article was found Saturday on the Internet. Concern about the public finding out about the secret spy planes ``led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project,'' Haines wrote. ``While perhaps justified, this deception added fuel to the later conspiracy theories and the coverup controversy. Haines, a historian at the National Reconnaissance Office, based his article on a review of CIA documents from the late 1940s to 1990. He described how the Air Force sought to deflect attention from the development of its high-altitude experimental aircraft, the U-2 and the SR-71. The early U-2s were silver and reflected the sun's rays, especially at sunrise and sunset, and often appeared as fiery objects to people below, Haines said. The U-2s were later painted black. Air Force investigators ``aware of the secret U-2 flights tried to explain away such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena such as ice crystals and temperature inversions,'' Haines wrote. By 1956, the Air Force internally had clear explanations for 96 percent of all UFO sightings, Haines wrote, referring to the experimental aircraft. ``They were careful, however, not to reveal the true cause of the sighting to the public.'' He also said the CIA, during the height of the Cold War, hid its involvement in studies into UFO sightings because the agency was concerned if word came out it would lead to a national hysteria that could be exploited by the Soviet Union. The director of space policy at the Washington-based Federation of American Scientists, John E. Pike, said the study raises questions about other possible government coverups involving unidentified flying objects. ``The flying-saucer community is definitely onto something,'' in accusing the military of hiding something, Pike told The New York Times, which reported on the study in Sunday's edition. Haines' study, ``CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90,'' is available on the Internet at: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 1/4 - CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:21:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:21:54 -0400 Subject: 1/4 - CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 From: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html Part One of Four =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= A Die-Hard Issue CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 Gerald K. Haines An extraordinary 95 percent of all Americans have at least heard or read something about Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs), and 57 percent believe they are real. (1) Former US Presidents Carter and Reagan claim to have seen a UFO. UFOlogists--a neologism for UFO buffs--and private UFO organizations are found throughout the United States. Many are convinced that the US Government, and particularly CIA, are engaged in a massive conspiracy and coverup of the issue. The idea that CIA has secretly concealed its research into UFOs has been a major theme of UFO buffs since the modern UFO phenomena emerged in the late 1940s. (2) In late 1993, after being pressured by UFOlogists for the release of additional CIA information on UFOs, (3) DCI R. James Woolsey ordered another review of all Agency files on UFOs. Using CIA records compiled from that review, this study traces CIA interest and involvement in the UFO controversy from the late 1940s to 1990. It chronologically examines the Agency's efforts to solve the mystery of UFOs, its programs that had an impact on UFO sightings, and its attempts to conceal CIA involvement in the entire UFO issue. What emerges from this examination is that, while Agency concern over UFOs was substantial until the early 1950s, CIA has since paid only limited and peripheral attention to the phenomena. Background The emergence in 1947 of the Cold War confrontation between the United States and the Soviet Union also saw the first wave of UFO sightings. The first report of a "flying saucer" over the United States came on 24 June 1947, when Kenneth Arnold, a private pilot and reputable businessman, while looking for a downed plane sighted nine disk-shaped objects near Mt. Rainier, Washington, traveling at an estimated speed of over 1,000 mph. Arnold's report was followed by a flood of additional sightings, including reports from military and civilian pilots and air traffic controllers all over the United States. (4) In 1948, Air Force Gen. Nathan Twining, head of the Air Technical Service Command, established Project SIGN (initially named Project SAUCER) to collect, collate, evaluate, and distribute within the government all information relating to such sightings, on the premise that UFOs might be real and of national security concern. (5) The Technical Intelligence Division of the Air Material Command (AMC) at Wright Field (later Wright-Patterson Air Force Base) in Dayton, Ohio, assumed control of Project SIGN and began its work on 23 January 1948. Although at first fearful that the objects might be Soviet secret weapons, the Air Force soon concluded that UFOs were real but easily explained and not extraordinary. The Air Force report found that almost all sightings stemmed from one or more of three causes: mass hysteria and hallucination, hoax, or misinterpretation of known objects. Nevertheless, the report recommended continued military intelligence control over the investigation of all sightings and did not rule out the possibility of extraterrestrial phenomena. (6) Amid mounting UFO sightings, the Air Force continued to collect and evaluate UFO data in the late 1940s under a new project, GRUDGE, which tried to alleviate public anxiety over UFOs via a public relations campaign designed to persuade the public that UFOs constituted nothing unusual or extraordinary. UFO sightings were explained as balloons, conventional aircraft, planets, meteors, optical illusions, solar reflections, or even "large hailstones." GRUDGE officials found no evidence in UFO sightings of advanced foreign weapons design or development, and they concluded that UFOs did not threaten US security. They recommended that the project be reduced in scope because the very existence of Air Force official interest encouraged people to believe in UFOs and contributed to a "war hysteria" atmosphere. On 27 December 1949, the Air Force announced the project's termination. (7) With increased Cold War tensions, the Korean war, and continued UFO sightings, USAF Director of Intelligence Maj. Gen. Charles P. Cabell ordered a new UFO project in 1952. Project BLUE BOOK became the major Air Force effort to study the UFO phenomenon throughout the 1950s and 1960s. (8) The task of identifying and explaining UFOs continued to fall on the Air Material Command at Wright-Patterson. With a small staff, the Air Technical Intelligence Center (ATIC) tried to persuade the public that UFOs were not extraordinary. (9) Projects SIGN, GRUDGE, and BLUE BOOK set the tone for the official US Government position regarding UFOs for the next 30 years. Early CIA Concerns, 1947-52 CIA closely monitored the Air Force effort, aware of the mounting number of sightings and increasingly concerned that UFOs might pose a potential security threat. (10) Given the distribution of the sightings, CIA officials in 1952 questioned whether they might reflect "midsummer madness.'' (11) Agency officials accepted the Air Force's conclusions about UFO reports, although they concluded that "since there is a remote possibility that they may be interplanetary aircraft, it is necessary to investigate each sighting." (12) A massive buildup of sightings over the United States in 1952, especially in July, alarmed the Truman administration. On 19 and 20 July, radar scopes at Washington National Airport and Andrews Air Force Base tracked mysterious blips. On 27 July, the blips reappeared. The Air Force scrambled interceptor aircraft to investigate, but they found nothing. The incidents, however, caused headlines across the country. The White House wanted to know what was happening, and the Air Force quickly offered the explanation that the radar blips might be the result of "temperature inversions." Later, a Civil Aeronautics Administration investigation confirmed that such radar blips were quite common and were caused by temperature inversions. (13) Although it had monitored UFO reports for at least three years, CIA reacted to the new rash of sightings by forming a special study group within the Office of Scientific Intelligence (OSI) and the Office of Current Intelligence (OCI) to review the situation. (14) Edward Tauss, acting chief of OSI's Weapons and Equipment Division, reported for the group that most UFO sightings could be easily explained. Nevertheless, he recommended that the Agency continue monitoring the problem, in coordination with ATIC. He also urged that CIA conceal its interest from the media and the public, "in view of their probable alarmist tendencies" to accept such interest as confirming the existence of UFOs. (15) Upon receiving the report, Deputy Director for Intelligence (DDI) Robert Amory, Jr. assigned responsibility for the UFO investigations to OSI's Physics and Electronics Division, with A. Ray Gordon as the officer in charge. (16) Each branch in the division was to contribute to the investigation, and Gordon was to coordinate closely with ATIC. Amory, who asked the group to focus on the national security implications of UFOs, was relaying DCI Walter Bedell Smith's concerns. (17) Smith wanted to know whether or not the Air Force investigation of flying saucers was sufficiently objective and how much more money and manpower would be necessary to determine the cause of the small percentage of unexplained flying saucers. Smith believed "there was only one chance in 10,000 that the phenomenon posed a threat to the security of the country, but even that chance could not be taken." According to Smith, it was CIA's responsibility by statute to coordinate the intelligence effort required to solve the problem. Smith also wanted to know what use could be made of the UFO phenomenon in connection with US psychological warfare efforts. (18) Led by Gordon, the CIA Study Group met with Air Force officials at Wright-Patterson and reviewed their data and findings. The Air Force claimed that 90 percent of the reported sightings were easily accounted for. The other 10 percent were characterized as "a number of incredible reports from credible observers." The Air Force rejected the theories that the sightings involved US or Soviet secret weapons development or that they involved "men from Mars"; there was no evidence to support these concepts. The Air Force briefers sought to explain these UFO reports as the misinterpretation of known objects or little understood natural phenomena. (19) Air Force and CIA officials agreed that outside knowledge of Agency interest in UFOs would make the problem more serious. (20) This concealment of CIA interest contributed greatly to later charges of a CIA conspiracy and coverup. Amateur photographs of alleged UFOs Passoria, New Jersey, 31 July 1952 Sheffield, England, 4 March 1962 & Minneapolis, Minnesota, 20 October 1960 The CIA Study Group also searched the Soviet press for UFO reports, but found none, causing the group to conclude that the absence of reports had to have been the result of deliberate Soviet Government policy. The group also envisioned the USSR's possible use of UFOs as a psychological warfare tool. In addition, they worried that, if the US air warning system should be deliberately overloaded by UFO sightings, the Soviets might gain a surprise advantage in any nuclear attack. (21) Because of the tense Cold War situation and increased Soviet capabilities, the CIA Study Group saw serious national security concerns in the flying saucer situation. The group believed that the Soviets could use UFO reports to touch off mass hysteria and panic in the United States. The group also believed that the Soviets might use UFO sightings to overload the US air warning system so that it could not distinguish real targets from phantom UFOs. H. Marshall Chadwell, Assistant Director of OSI, added that he considered the problem of such importance "that it should be brought to the attention of the National Security Council, in order that a communitywide coordinated effort towards it solution may be initiated." (22) Chadwell briefed DCI Smith on the subject of UFOs in December 1952. He urged action because he was convinced that "something was going on that must have immediate attention" and that "sightings of unexplained objects at great altitudes and traveling at high speeds in the vicinity of major US defense installations are of such nature that they are not attributable to natural phenomena or known types of aerial vehicles." He drafted a memorandum from the DCI to the National Security Council (NSC) and a proposed NSC Directive establishing the investigation of UFOs as a priority project throughout the intelligence and the defense research and development community. (23) Chadwell also urged Smith to establish an external research project of top-level scientists to study the problem of UFOs. (24) After this briefing, Smith directed DDI Amory to prepare a NSC Intelligence Directive (NSCID) for submission to the NSC on the need to continue the investigation of UFOs and to coordinate such investigations with the Air Force. (25) The Robertson Panel, 1952-53 On 4 December 1952, the Intelligence Advisory Committee (IAC) took up the issue of UFOs. (26) Amory, as acting chairman, presented DCI Smith's request to the committee that it informally discuss the subject of UFOs. Chadwell then briefly reviewed the situation and the active program of the ATIC relating to UFOs. The committee agreed that the DCI should "enlist the services of selected scientists to review and appraise the available evidence in the light of pertinent scientific theories" and draft an NSCID on the subject. (27) Maj. Gen. John A. Samford, Director of Air Force Intelligence, offered full cooperation. (28) At the same time, Chadwell looked into British efforts in this area. He learned the British also were active in studying the UFO phenomena. An eminent British scientist, R. V. Jones, headed a standing committee created in June 1951 on flying saucers. Jones' and his committee's conclusions on UFOs were similar to those of Agency officials: the sightings were not enemy aircraft but misrepresentations of natural phenomena. The British noted, however, that during a recent air show RAF pilots and senior military officials had observed a "perfect flying saucer." Given the press response, according to the officer, Jones was having a most difficult time trying to correct public opinion regarding UFOs. The public was convinced they were real. (29) In January 1953, Chadwell and H. P. Robertson, a noted physicist from the California Institute of Technology, put together a distinguished panel of nonmilitary scientists to study the UFO issue. It included Robertson as chairman; Samuel A. Goudsmit, a nuclear physicist from the Brookhaven National Laboratories; Luis Alvarez, a high-energy physicist; Thornton Page, the deputy director of the Johns Hopkins Operations Research Office and an expert on radar and electronics; and Lloyd Berkner, a director of the Brookhaven National Laboratories and a specialist in geophysics. (30) The charge to the panel was to review the available evidence on UFOs and to consider the possible dangers of the phenomena to US national security. The panel met from 14 to 17 January 1953. It reviewed Air Force data on UFO case histories and, after spending 12 hours studying the phenomena, declared that reasonable explanations could be suggested for most, if not all, sightings. For example, after reviewing motion-picture film taken of a UFO sighting near Tremonton, Utah, on 2 July 1952 and one near Great Falls, Montana, on 15 August 1950, the panel concluded that the images on the Tremonton film were caused by sunlight reflecting off seagulls and that the images at Great Falls were sunlight reflecting off the surface of two Air Force interceptors. (31) The panel concluded unanimously that there was no evidence of a direct threat to national security in the UFO sightings. Nor could the panel find any evidence that the objects sighted might be extraterrestrials. It did find that continued emphasis on UFO reporting might threaten "the orderly functioning" of the government by clogging the channels of communication with irrelevant reports and by inducing "hysterical mass behavior" harmful to constituted authority. The panel also worried that potential enemies contemplating an attack on the United States might exploit the UFO phenomena and use them to disrupt US air defenses. (32) To meet these problems, the panel recommended that the National Security Council debunk UFO reports and institute a policy of public education to reassure the public of the lack of evidence behind UFOs. It suggested using the mass media, advertising, business clubs, schools, and even the Disney corporation to get the message across. Reporting at the height of McCarthyism, the panel also recommended that such private UFO groups as the Civilian Flying Saucer Investigators in Los Angeles and the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization in Wisconsin be monitored for subversive activities. (33) The Robertson panel's conclusions were strikingly similar to those of the earlier Air Force project reports on SIGN and GRUDGE and to those of the CIA's own OSI Study Group. All investigative groups found that UFO reports indicated no direct threat to national security and no evidence of visits by extraterrestrials. Following the Robertson panel findings, the Agency abandoned efforts to draft an NSCID on UFOs. (34) The Scientific Advisory Panel on UFOs (the Robertson panel) submitted its report to the IAC, the Secretary of Defense, the Director of the Federal Civil Defense Administration, and the Chairman of the National Security Resources Board. CIA officials said no further consideration of the subject appeared warranted, although they continued to monitor sightings in the interest of national security. Philip Strong and Fred Durant from OSI also briefed the Office of National Estimates on the findings. (35) CIA officials wanted knowledge of any Agency interest in the subject of flying saucers carefully restricted, noting not only that the Robertson panel report was classified but also that any mention of CIA sponsorship of the panel was forbidden. This attitude would later cause the Agency major problems relating to its credibility. (36) The 1950s: Fading CIA Interest in UFOs After the report of the Robertson panel, Agency officials put the entire issue of UFOs on the back burner. In May 1953, Chadwell transferred chief responsibility for keeping abreast of UFOs to OSI's Physics and Electronic Division, while the Applied Science Division continued to provide any necessary support. (37) Todos M. Odarenko, chief of the Physics and Electronics Division, did not want to take on the problem, contending that it would require too much of his division's analytic and clerical time. Given the findings of the Robertson panel, he proposed to consider the project "inactive" and to devote only one analyst part-time and a file clerk to maintain a reference file of the activities of the Air Force and other agencies on UFOs. Neither the Navy nor the Army showed much interest in UFOs, according to Odarenko. (38) A nonbeliever in UFOs, Odarenko sought to have his division relieved of the responsibility for monitoring UFO reports. In 1955, for example, he recommended that the entire project be terminated because no new information concerning UFOs had surfaced. Besides, he argued, his division was facing a serious budget reduction and could not spare the resources. (39) Chadwell and other Agency officials, however, continued to worry about UFOs. Of special concern were overseas reports of UFO sightings and claims that German engineers held by the Soviets were developing a "flying saucer" as a future weapon of war. (40) To most US political and military leaders, the Soviet Union by the mid-1950s had become a dangerous opponent. Soviet progress in nuclear weapons and guided missiles was particularly alarming. In the summer of 1949, the USSR had detonated an atomic bomb. In August 1953, only nine months after the United States tested a hydrogen bomb, the Soviets detonated one. In the spring of 1953, a top secret RAND Corporation study also pointed out the vulnerability of SAC bases to a surprise attack by Soviet long-range bombers. Concern over the danger of a Soviet attack on the United States continued to grow, and UFO sightings added to the uneasiness of US policymakers. Mounting reports of UFOs over eastern Europe and Afghanistan also prompted concern that the Soviets were making rapid progress in this area. CIA officials knew that the British and Canadians were already experimenting with "flying saucers." Project Y was a Canadian-British-US developmental operation to produce a nonconventional flying-saucer-type aircraft, and Agency officials feared the Soviets were testing similar devices. (41)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 2/4 - CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:25:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:25:22 -0400 Subject: 2/4 - CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 From: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html Part Two of Four =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Adding to the concern was a flying saucer sighting by US Senator Richard Russell and his party while traveling on a train in the USSR in October 1955. After extensive interviews of Russell and his group, however, CIA officials concluded that Russell's sighting did not support the theory that the Soviets had developed saucerlike or unconventional aircraft. Herbert Scoville, Jr., the Assistant Director of OSI, wrote that the objects observed probably were normal jet aircraft in a steep climb. (42) Wilton E. Lexow, head of the CIA's Applied Sciences Division, was also skeptical. He questioned why the Soviets were continuing to develop conventional-type aircraft if they had a "flying saucer." (43) Scoville asked Lexow to assume responsibility for fully assessing the capabilities and limitations of nonconventional aircraft and to maintain the OSI central file on the subject of UFOs. CIA's U-2 and OXCART as UFOs In November 1954, CIA had entered into the world of high technology with its U-2 overhead reconnaissance project. Working with Lockheed's Advanced Development facility in Burbank, California, known as the Skunk Works, and Kelly Johnson, an eminent aeronautical engineer, the Agency by August 1955 was testing a high-altitude experimental aircraft--the U-2. It could fly at 60,000 feet; in the mid-1950s, most commercial airliners flew between 10,000 feet and 20,000 feet. Consequently, once the U-2 started test flights, commercial pilots and air traffic controllers began reporting a large increase in UFO sightings. (44) (U) The early U-2s were silver (they were later painted black) and reflected the rays from the sun, especially at sunrise and sunset. They often appeared as fiery objects to observers below. Air Force BLUE BOOK investigators aware of the secret U-2 flights tried to explain away such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena such as ice crystals and temperature inversions. By checking with the Agency's U-2 Project Staff in Washington, BLUE BOOK investigators were able to attribute many UFO sightings to U-2 flights. They were careful, however, not to reveal the true cause of the sighting to the public. According to later estimates from CIA officials who worked on the U-2 project and the OXCART (SR-71, or Blackbird) project, over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the 1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights (namely the U-2) over the United States. (45) This led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project. While perhaps justified, this deception added fuel to the later conspiracy theories and the coverup controversy of the 1970s. The percentage of what the Air Force considered unexplained UFO sightings fell to 5.9 percent in 1955 and to 4 percent in 1956. (46) At the same time, pressure was building for the release of the Robertson panel report on UFOs. In 1956, Edward Ruppelt, former head of the Air Force BLUE BOOK project, publicly revealed the existence of the panel. A best-selling book by UFOlogist Donald Keyhoe, a retired Marine Corps major, advocated release of all government information relating to UFOs. Civilian UFO groups such as the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP) and the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO) immediately pushed for release of the Robertson panel report. (47) Under pressure, the Air Force approached CIA for permission to declassify and release the report. Despite such pressure, Philip Strong, Deputy Assistant Director of OSI, refused to declassify the report and declined to disclose CIA sponsorship of the panel. As an alternative, the Agency prepared a sanitized version of the report which deleted any reference to CIA and avoided mention of any psychological warfare potential in the UFO controversy. (48) The demands, however, for more government information about UFOs did not let up. On 8 March 1958, Keyhoe, in an interview with Mike Wallace of CBS, claimed deep CIA involvement with UFOs and Agency sponsorship of the Robertson panel. This prompted a series of letters to the Agency from Keyhoe and Dr. Leon Davidson, a chemical engineer and UFOlogist. They demanded the release of the full Robertson panel report and confirmation of CIA involvement in the UFO issue. Davidson had convinced himself that the Agency, not the Air Force, carried most of the responsibility for UFO analysis and that "the activities of the US Government are responsible for the flying saucer sightings of the last decade." Indeed, because of the undisclosed U-2 and OXCART flights, Davidson was closer to the truth than he suspected. CI, nevertheless held firm to its policy of not revealing its role in UFO investigations and refused to declassify the full Robertson panel report. (49) In a meeting with Air Force representatives to discuss how to handle future inquires such as Keyhoe's and Davidson's, Agency officials confirmed their opposition to the declassification of the full report and worried that Keyhoe had the ear of former DCI VAdm. Roscoe Hillenkoetter, who served on the board of governors of NICAP. They debated whether to have CIA General Counsel Lawrence R. Houston show Hillenkoetter the report as a possible way to defuse the situation. CIA officer Frank Chapin also hinted that Davidson might have ulterior motives, "some of them perhaps not in the best interest of this country," and suggested bringing in the FBI to investigate. (50) Although the record is unclear whether the FBI ever instituted an investigation of Davidson or Keyhoe, or whether Houston ever saw Hillenkoetter about the Robertson report, Hillenkoetter did resign from the NICAP in 1962. (51) The Agency was also involved with Davidson and Keyhoe in two rather famous UFO cases in the 1950s, which helped contribute to a growing sense of public distrust of CIA with regard to UFOs. One focused on what was reported to have been a tape recording of a radio signal from a flying saucer; the other on reported photographs of a flying saucer. The "radio code" incident began innocently enough in 1955, when two elderly sisters in Chicago, Mildred and Marie Maier, reported in the Journal of Space Flight their experiences with UFOs, including the recording of a radio program in which an unidentified code was reportedly heard. The sisters taped the program and other ham radio operators also claimed to have heard the "space message." OSI became interested and asked the Scientific Contact Branch to obtain a copy of the recording. (52) Field officers from the Contact Division (CD), one of whom was Dewelt Walker, made contact with the Maier sisters, who were "thrilled that the government was interested," and set up a time to meet with them. (53) In trying to secure the tape recording, the Agency officers reported that they had stumbled upon a scene from Arsenic and Old Lace. "The only thing lacking was the elderberry wine," Walker cabled Headquarters. After reviewing the sisters' scrapbook of clippings from their days on the stage, the officers secured a copy of the recording. (54) OSI analyzed the tape and found it was nothing more than Morse code from a US radio station. The matter rested there until UFOlogist Leon Davidson talked with the Maier sisters in 1957. The sisters remembered they had talked with a Mr. Walker who said he was from the US Air Force. Davidson then wrote to a Mr. Walker, believing him to be a US Air Force Intelligence Officer from Wright-Patterson, to ask if the tape had been analyzed at ATIC. Dewelt Walker replied to Davidson that the tape had been forwarded to proper authorities for evaluation, and no information was available concerning the results. Not satisfied, and suspecting that Walker was really a CIA officer, Davidson next wrote DCI Allen Dulles demanding to learn what the coded message revealed and who Mr. Walker was. (55) The Agency, wanting to keep Walker's identity as a CIA employee secret, replied that another agency of the government had analyzed the tape in question and that Davidson would be hearing from the Air Force. (56) On 5 August, the Air Force wrote Davidson saying that Walker "was and is an Air Force Officer" and that the tape "was analyzed by another government organization." The Air Force letter confirmed that the recording contained only identifiable Morse code which came from a known US-licensed radio station. (57) Davidson wrote Dulles again. This time he wanted to know the identity of the Morse operator and of the agency that had conducted the analysis. CIA and the Air Force were now in a quandary. The Agency had previously denied that it had actually analyzed the tape. The Air Force had also denied analyzing the tape and claimed that Walker was an Air Force officer. CIA officers, under cover, contacted Davidson in Chicago and promised to get the code translation and the identification of the transmitter, if possible. (58) In another attempt to pacify Davidson, a CIA officer, again under cover and wearing his Air Force uniform, contacted Davidson in New York City. The CIA officer explained that there was no super agency involved and that Air Force policy was not to disclose who was doing what. While seeming to accept this argument, Davidson nevertheless pressed for disclosure of the recording message and the source. The officer agreed to see what he could do. (59) After checking with Headquarters, the CIA officer phoned Davidson to report that a thorough check had been made and, because the signal was of known US origin, the tape and the notes made at the time had been destroyed to conserve file space. (60) Incensed over what he perceived was a runaround, Davidson told the CIA officer that "he and his agency, whichever it was, were acting like Jimmy Hoffa and the Teamster Union in destroying records which might indict them." (61) Believing that any more contact with Davidson would only encourage more speculation, the Contact Division washed its hands of the issue by reporting to the DCI and to ATIC that it would not respond to or try to contact Davidson again. (62) Thus, a minor, rather bizarre incident, handled poorly by both CIA and the Air Force, turned into a major flap that added fuel to the growing mystery surrounding UFOs and CIA's role in their investigation. Another minor flap a few months later added to the growing questions surrounding the Agency's true role with regard to flying saucers. CIA's concern over secrecy again made matters worse. In 1958, Major Keyhoe charged that the Agency was deliberately asking eyewitnesses of UFOs not to make their sightings public. (63) The incident stemmed from a November 1957 request from OSI to the CD to obtain from Ralph C. Mayher, a photographer for KYW-TV in Cleveland, Ohio, certain photographs he took in 1952 of an unidentified flying object. Harry Real, a CD officer, contacted Mayher and obtained copies of the photographs for analysis. On 12 December 1957, John Hazen, another CD officer, returned the five photographs of the alleged UFO to Mayher without comment. Mayher asked Hazen for the Agency's evaluation of the photos, explaining that he was trying to organize a TV program to brief the public on UFOs. He wanted to mention on the show that a US intelligence organization had viewed the photographs and thought them of interest. Although he advised Mayher not to take this approach, Hazen stated that Mayher was a US citizen and would have to make his own decision as to what to do. (64) Keyhoe later contacted Mayher, who told him his story of CIA and the photographs. Keyhoe then asked the Agency to confirm Hazen's employment in writing, in an effort to expose CIA's role in UFO investigations. The Agency refused, despite the fact that CD field representatives were normally overt and carried credentials identifying their Agency association. DCI Dulles's aide, John S. Earman, merely sent Keyhoe a noncommittal letter noting that, because UFOs were of primary concern to the Department of the Air Force, the Agency had referred his letter to the Air Force for an appropriate response. Like the response to Davidson, the Agency reply to Keyhoe only fueled the speculation that the Agency was deeply involved in UFO sightings. Pressure for release of CIA information on UFOs continued to grow. (65) Although CIA had a declining interest in UFO cases, it continued to monitor UFO sightings. Agency officials felt the need to keep informed on UFOs if only to alert the DCI to the more sensational UFO reports and flaps. (66) The 1960s: Declining CIA Involvement and Mounting Controversy In the early 1960s, Keyhoe, Davidson, and other UFOlogists maintained their assault on the Agency for release of UFO information. Davidson now claimed that CIA "was solely responsible for creating the Flying Saucer furor as a tool for cold war psychological warfare since 1951." Despite calls for Congressional hearings and the release of all materials relating to UFOs, little changed. (67) In 1964, however, following high-level White House discussions on what to do if an alien intelligence was discovered in space and a new outbreak of UFO reports and sightings, DCI John McCone asked for an updated CIA evaluation of UFOs. Responding to McCone's request, OSI asked the CD to obtain various recent samples and reports of UFO sightings from NICAP. With Keyhoe, one of the founders, no longer active in the organization, CIA officers met with Richard H. Hall, the acting director. Hall gave the officers samples from the NICAP database on the most recent sightings. (68) After OSI officers had reviewed the material, Donald F. Chamberlain, OSI Assistant Director, assured McCone that little had changed since the early 1950s. There was still no evidence that UFOs were a threat to the security of the United States or that they were of "foreign origin." Chamberlain told McCone that OSI still monitored UFO reports, including the official Air Force investigation, Project BLUE BOOK. (69) At the same time that CIA was conducting this latest internal review of UFOs, public pressure forced the Air Force to establish a special ad hoc committee to review BLUE BOOK. Chaired by Dr. Brian O'Brien, a member of the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board, the panel included Carl Sagan, the famous astronomer from Cornell University. Its report offered nothing new. It declared that UFOs did not threaten the national security and that it could find "no UFO case which represented technological or scientific advances outside of a terrestrial framework." The committee did recommend that UFOs be studied intensively, with a leading university acting as a coordinator for the project, to settle the issue conclusively. (70) The House Armed Services Committee also held brief hearings on UFOs in 1966 that produced similar results. Secretary of the Air Force Harold Brown assured the committee that most sightings were easily explained and that there was no evidence that "strangers from outer space" had been visiting Earth. He told the committee members, however, that the Air Force would keep an open mind and continue to investigate all UFO reports. (71) Following the report of its O'Brien Committee, the House hearings on UFOs, and Dr. Robertson's disclosure on a CBS Reports program that CIA indeed had been involved in UFO analysis, the Air Force in July 1966 again approached the Agency for declassification of the entire Robertson panel report of 1953 and the full Durant report on the Robertson panel deliberations and findings. The Agency again refused to budge. Karl H. Weber, Deputy Director of OSI, wrote the Air Force that "We are most anxious that further publicity not be given to the information that the panel was sponsored by the CIA." Weber noted that there was already a sanitized version available to the public. (72) Weber's response was rather shortsighted and ill considered. It only drew more attention to the 13-year-old Robertson panel report and CIA's role in the investigation of UFOs. The science editor of The Saturday Review drew nationwide attention to the CIA's role in investigating UFOs when he published an article criticizing the "sanitized version" of the 1953 Robertson panel report and called for release of the entire document. (73) Unknown to CIA officials, Dr. James E. McDonald, a noted atmospheric physicist from the University of Arizona, had already seen the Durant report on the Robertson panel proceedings at Wright-Patterson on 6 June 1966. When McDonald returned to Wright-Patterson on 30 June to copy the report, however, the Air Force refused to let him see it again, stating that it was a CIA classified document. Emerging as a UFO authority, McDonald publicly claimed that the CIA was behind the Air Force secrecy policies and coverup. He demanded the release of the full Robertson panel report and the Durant report. (74) Bowing to public pressure and the recommendation of its own O'Brien Committee, the Air Force announced in August 1966 that it was seeking a contract with a leading university to undertake a program of intensive investigations of UFO sightings. The new program was designed to blunt continuing charges that the US Government had concealed what it knew about UFOs. On 7 October, the University of Colorado accepted a $325,000 contract with the Air Force for an 18-month study of flying saucers. Dr. Edward U. Condon, a physicist at Colorado and a former Director of the National Bureau of Standards, agreed to head the program. Pronouncing himself an "agnostic" on the subject of UFOs, Condon observed that he had an open mind on the question and thought that possible extraterritorial origins were "improbable but not impossible." (75) Brig. Gen. Edward Giller, USAF, and Dr. Thomas Ratchford from the Air Force Research and Development Office became the Air Force coordinators for the project. In February 1967, Giller contacted Arthur C. Lundahl, Director of CIA's National Photographic Interpretation Center (NPIC), and proposed an informal liaison through which NPIC could provide the Condon Committee with technical advice and services in examining photographs of alleged UFOs. Lundahl and DDI R. Jack Smith approved the arrangement as a way of "preserving a window" on the new effort. They wanted the CIA and NPIC to maintain a low profile, however, and to take no part in writing any conclusions for the committee. No work done for the committee by NPIC was to be formally acknowledged. (76) Ratchford next requested that Condon and his committee be allowed to visit NPIC to discuss the technical aspects of the problem and to view the special equipment NPIC had for photoanalysis. On 20 February 1967, Condon and four members of his committee visited NPIC. Lundahl emphasized to the group that any NPIC work to assist the committee must not be identified as CIA work. Moreover, work performed by NPIC would be strictly of a technical nature. After receiving these guidelines, the group heard a series of briefings on the services and equipment not available elsewhere that CIA had used in its analysis of some UFO photography furnished by Ratchford. Condon and his committee were impressed. (77) Condon and the same group met again in May 1967 at NPIC to hear an analysis of UFO photographs taken at Zanesville, Ohio. The analysis debunked that sighting. The committee was again impressed with the technical work performed, and Condon remarked that for the first time a scientific analysis of a UFO would stand up to investigation. (78) The group also discussed the committee's plans to call on US citizens for additional photographs and to issue guidelines for taking useful UFO photographs. In addition, CIA officials agreed that the Condon Committee could release the full Durant report with only minor deletions. In April 1969, Condon and his committee released their report on UFOs. The report concluded that little, if anything, had come from the study of UFOs in the past 21 years and that further extensive study of UFO sightings was unwarranted. It also recommended that the Air Force special unit, Project BLUE BOOK, be discontinued. It did not mention CIA participation in the Condon committee's investigation. (79) A special panel established by the National Academy of Sciences reviewed the Condon report and concurred with its conclusion that "no high priority in UFO investigations is warranted by data of the past two decades." It concluded its review by declaring, "On the basis of present knowledge, the least likely explanation of UFOs is the hypothesis of extraterrestrial visitations by intelligent beings." Following the recommendations of the Condon Committee and the National Academy of Sciences, the Secretary of the Air Force, Robert C. Seamans, Jr., announced on 17 December 1969 the termination of BLUE BOOK. (80)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 3/4 - CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:27:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:27:09 -0400 Subject: 3/4 - CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 From: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html Part Three of Four =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The 1970s and 1980s: The UFO Issue Refuses To Die The Condon report did not satisfy many UFOlogists, who considered it a coverup for CIA activities in UFO research. Additional sightings in the early 1970s fueled beliefs that the CIA was somehow involved in a vast conspiracy. On 7 June 1975, William Spaulding, head of a small UFO group, Ground Saucer Watch (GSW), wrote to CIA requesting a copy of the Robertson panel report and all records relating to UFOs. (81) Spaulding was convinced that the Agency was withholding major files on UFOs. Agency officials provided Spaulding with a copy of the Robertson panel report and of the Durant report. (82) On 14 July 1975, Spaulding again wrote the Agency questioning the authenticity of the reports he had received and alleging a CIA coverup of its UFO activities. Gene Wilson, CIA's Information and Privacy Coordinator, replied in an attempt to satisfy Spaulding, "At no time prior to the formation of the Robertson Panel and subsequent to the issuance of the panel's report has CIA engaged in the study of the UFO phenomena." The Robertson panel report, according to Wilson, was "the summation of Agency interest and involvement in UFOs." Wilson also inferred that there were no additional documents in CIA's possession that related to UFOs. Wilson was ill informed. (83) In September 1977, Spaulding and GSW, unconvinced by Wilson's response, filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit against the Agency that specifically requested all UFO documents in CIA's possession. Deluged by similar FOIA requests for Agency information on UFOs, CIA officials agreed, after much legal maneuvering, to conduct a "reasonable search" of CIA files for UFO materials. (84) Despite an Agency-wide unsympathetic attitude toward the suit, Agency officials, led by Launie Ziebell from the Office of General Counsel, conducted a thorough search for records pertaining to UFOs. Persistent, demanding, and even threatening at times, Ziebell and his group scoured the Agency. They even turned up an old UFO file under a secretary's desk. The search finally produced 355 documents totaling approximately 900 pages. On 14 December 1978, the Agency released all but 57 documents of about 100 pages to GSW. It withheld these 57 documents on national security grounds and to protect sources and methods. (85) Although the released documents produced no smoking gun and revealed only a low-level Agency interest in the UFO phenomena after the Robertson panel report of 1953, the press treated the release in a sensational manner. The New York Times, for example, claimed that the declassified documents confirmed intensive government concern over UFOs and that the Agency was secretly involved in the surveillance of UFOs. (86) GSW then sued for the release of the withheld documents, claiming that the Agency was still holding out key information. (87) It was much like the John F. Kennedy assassination issue. No matter how much material the Agency released and no matter how dull and prosaic the information, people continued to believe in a Agency coverup and conspiracy. DCI Stansfield Turner was so upset when he read The New York Times article that he asked his senior officers, "Are we in UFOs?" After reviewing the records, Don Wortman, Deputy Director for Administration, reported to Turner that there was "no organized Agency effort to do research in connection with UFO phenomena nor has there been an organized effort to collect intelligence on UFOs since the 1950s." Wortman assured Turner that the Agency records held only "sporadic instances of correspondence dealing with the subject," including various kinds of reports of UFO sightings. There was no Agency program to collect actively information on UFOs, and the material released to GSW had few deletions. (88) Thus assured, Turner had the General Counsel press for a summary judgment against the new lawsuit by GSW. In May 1980, the courts dismissed the lawsuit, finding that the Agency had conducted a thorough and adequate search in good faith. (89) During the late 1970s and 1980s, the Agency continued its low-key interest in UFOs and UFO sightings. While most scientists now dismissed flying saucers reports as a quaint part of the 1950s and 1960s, some in the Agency and in the Intelligence Community shifted their interest to studying parapsychology and psychic phenomena associated with UFO sightings. CIA officials also looked at the UFO problem to determine what UFO sightings might tell them about Soviet progress in rockets and missiles and reviewed its counterintelligence aspects. Agency analysts from the Life Science Division of OSI and OSWR officially devoted a small amount of their time to issues relating to UFOs. These included counterintelligence concerns that the Soviets and the KGB were using US citizens and UFO groups to obtain information on sensitive US weapons development programs (such as the Stealth aircraft), the vulnerability of the US air-defense network to penetration by foreign missiles mimicking UFOs, and evidence of Soviet advanced technology associated with UFO sightings. CIA also maintained Intelligence Community coordination with other agencies regarding their work in parapsychology, psychic phenomena, and "remote viewing" experiments. In general, the Agency took a conservative scientific view of these unconventional scientific issues. There was no formal or official UFO project within the Agency in the 1980s, and Agency officials purposely kept files on UFOs to a minimum to avoid creating records that might mislead the public if released. (90) The 1980s also produced renewed charges that the Agency was still withholding documents relating to the 1947 Roswell incident, in which a flying saucer supposedly crashed in New Mexico, and the surfacing of documents which purportedly revealed the existence of a top secret US research and development intelligence operation responsible only to the President on UFOs in the late 1940s and early 1950s. UFOlogists had long argued that, following a flying saucer crash in New Mexico in 1947, the government not only recovered debris from the crashed saucer but also four or five alien bodies. According to some UFOlogists, the government clamped tight security around the project and has refused to divulge its investigation results and research ever since. (91) In September 1994, the US Air Force released a new report on the Roswell incident that concluded that the debris found in New Mexico in 1947 probably came from a once top secret balloon operation, Project MOGUL, designed to monitor the atmosphere for evidence of Soviet nuclear tests. (92) Circa 1984, a series of documents surfaced which some UFOlogists said proved that President Truman created a top secret committee in 1947, Majestic-12, to secure the recovery of UFO wreckage from Roswell and any other UFO crash sight for scientific study and to examine any alien bodies recovered from such sites. Most if not all of these documents have proved to be fabrications. Yet the controversy persists. (93) Like the JFK assassination conspiracy theories, the UFO issue probably will not go away soon, no matter what the Agency does or says. The belief that we are not alone in the universe is too emotionally appealing and the distrust of our government is too pervasive to make the issue amenable to traditional scientific studies of rational explanation and evidence. Notes (1) See the 1973 Gallup Poll results printed in The New York Times, 29 November 1973, p. 45 and Philip J. Klass, UFOs: The Public Deceived (New York: Prometheus Books, 1983), p. 3. (2) See Klass, UFOs, p. 3; James S. Gordon, "The UFO Experience," Atlantic Monthly (August 1991), pp. 82-92; David Michael Jacobs, The UFO Controversy in America (Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1975); Howard Blum, Out There: The Government's Secret Quest for Extraterrestrials (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1990); Timothy Good, Above Top Secret: The Worldwide UFO Cover-Up (New York: William Morrow, 1987); and Whitley Strieber, Communion: The True Story (New York: Morrow, 1987). (3) In September 1993 John Peterson, an acquaintance of Woolsey's, first approached the DCI with a package of heavily sanitized CIA material on UFOs released to UFOlogist Stanton T. Friedman. Peterson and Friedman wanted to know the reasons for the redactions. Woolsey agreed to look into the matter. See Richard J. Warshaw, Executive Assistant, note to author, 1 November 1994; Warshaw, note to John H. Wright, Information and Privacy Coordinator, 31 January 1994; and Wright, memorandum to Executive Secretariat, 2 March 1994. (Except where noted, all citations to CIA records in this article are to the records collected for the 1994 Agency-wide search that are held by the Executive Assistant to the DCI). (4) See Hector Quintanilla, Jr., "The Investigation of UFOs," Vol. 10, No. 4, Studies in Intelligence (fall 1966): pp.95-110 and CIA, unsigned memorandum, "Flying Saucers," 14 August 1952. See also Good, Above Top Secret, p. 253. During World War II, US pilots reported "foo fighters" (bright lights trailing US aircraft). Fearing they might be Japanese or German secret weapons, OSS investigated but could find no concrete evidence of enemy weapons and often filed such reports in the "crackpot" category. The OSS also investigated possible sightings of German V-1 and V-2 rockets before their operational use during the war. See Jacobs, UFO Controversy, p. 33. The Central Intelligence Group, the predecessor of the CIA, also monitored reports of "ghost rockets" in Sweden in 1946. See CIG, Intelligence Report, 9 April 1947. (5) Jacobs, The UFO Controversy, p. 156 and Quintanilla, "The Investigation of UFOs," p. 97. (6) See US Air Force, Air Material Command, "Unidentified Aerial Objects: Project SIGN, no. F-TR 2274, IA, February 1949, Records of the US Air Force Commands, Activities and Organizations, Record Group 341, National Archives, Washington, DC. (7) See US Air Force, Projects GRUDGE and BLUEBOOK Reports 1- 12 (Washington, DC; National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, 1968) and Jacobs, The UFO Controversy, pp. 50-54. (8) See Cabell, memorandum to Commanding Generals Major Air Commands, "Reporting of Information on Unconventional Aircraft," 8 September 1950 and Jacobs, The UFO Controversy, p. 65. (9) See Air Force, Projects GRUDGE and BLUE BOOK and Jacobs, The UFO Controversy, p. 67. (10) See Edward Tauss, memorandum for Deputy Assistant Director, SI, "Flying Saucers," 1 August 1952. See also United Kingdom, Report by the "Flying Saucer" Working Party, "Unidentified Flying Objects," no date (approximately 1950). (11) See Dr. Stone, OSI, memorandum to Dr. Willard Machle, OSI, 15 March 1949 and Ralph L. Clark, Acting Assistant Director, OSI, memorandum for DDI, "Recent Sightings of Unexplained Objects," 29 July 1952. (12) Stone, memorandum to Machle. See also Clark, memorandum for DDI, 29 July 1952. (13) See Klass, UFOs, p. 15. For a brief review of the Washington sightings see Good, Above Top Secret, pp. 269-271. (14) See Ralph L. Clark, Acting Assistant Director, OSI, memorandum to DDI Robert Amory, Jr., 29 July 1952. OSI and OCI were in the Directorate of Intelligence. Established in 1948, OSI served as the CIA's focal point for the analysis of foreign scientific and technological developments. In 1980, OSI was merged into the Office of Science and Weapons Research. The Office of Current Intelligence (OCI), established on 15 January 1951 was to provide all-source current intelligence to the President and the National Security Council. (15) Tauss, memorandum for Deputy Assistant Director, SI (Philip Strong), 1 August 1952. (16) On 2 January 1952, DCI Walter Bedell Smith created a Deputy Directorate for Intelligence (DDI) composed of six overt CIA organizations--OSI, OCI, Office of Collection and Dissemination, Office National Estimates, Office of Research and Reports, and the Office of Intelligence Coordination--to produce intelligence analysis for US policymakers. (17) See Minutes of Branch Chief's Meeting, 11 August 1952. (18) Smith expressed his opinions at a meeting in the DCI Conference Room attended by his top officers. See Deputy Chief, Requirements Staff, FI, memorandum for Deputy Director, Plans, "Flying Saucers," 20 August 1952, Directorate of Operations Records, Information Management Staff, Job 86-00538R, Box 1. (19) See CIA memorandum, unsigned, "Flying Saucers," 11 August 1952. (20) See CIA, memorandum, unsigned, "Flying Saucers," 14 August 1952. (21) See CIA, memorandum, unsigned, "Flying Saucers," 19 August 1952. (22) See Chadwell, memorandum for Smith, 17 September 1952 and 24 September 1952, "Flying Saucers." See also Chadwell, memorandum for DCI Smith, 2 October 1952 and Klass, UFOs, pp. 23-26. (23) Chadwell, memorandum for DCI with attachments, 2 December 1952. See also Klass, UFOs, pp. 26-27 and Chadwell, memorandum, 25 November 1952. (24) See Chadwell, memorandum, 25 November 1952 and Chadwell, memorandum, "Approval in Principle - External Research Project Concerned with Unidentified Flying Objects," no date. See also Philip G. Strong, OSI, memorandum for the record, "Meeting with Dr. Julius A. Stratton, Executive Vice President and Provost, MIT and Dr. Max Millikan, Director of CENIS." Strong believed that in order to undertake such a review they would need the full backing and support of DCI Smith. (25) See Chadwell, memorandum for DCI, ""Unidentified Flying Objects," 2 December 1952. See also Chadwell, memorandum for Amory, DDI, "Approval in Principle - External Research Project Concerned with Unidentified Flying Objects," no date. (26) The IAC was created in 1947 to serve as a coordinating body in establishing intelligence requirements. Chaired by the DCI, the IAC included representatives from the Department of State, the Army, the Air Force, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the FBI, and the AEC. (27) See Klass, UFOs, p. 27. (28) See Richard D. Drain, Acting Secretary, IAC, "Minutes of Meeting held in Director's Conference Room, Administration Building, CIA," 4 December 1952. (29) See Chadwell, memorandum for the record, "British Activity in the Field of UFOs," 18 December 1952. (30) See Chadwell, memorandum for DCI, "Consultants for Advisory Panel on Unidentified Flying Objects," 9 January 1953; Curtis Peebles, Watch the Skies! A Chronicle of the Flying Saucer Myth (Washington, DC: Smithsonian Institution Press, 1994). pp. 73-90; and Jacobs, The UFO Controversy, pp. 91-92. (31) See Fred C. Durant III, Report on the Robertson Panel Meeting, January 1953. Durant, on contract with OSI and a past president of the American Rocket Society, attended the Robertson panel meetings and wrote a summary of the proceedings. (32) See Report of the Scientific Panel on Unidentified Flying Objects (the Robertson Report), 17 January 1953 and the Durant report on the panel discussions. (33) See Robertson Report and Durant Report. See also Good, Above Top Secret, pp. 337-38, Jacobs, The UFO Controversy, p. 95, and Klass, UFO's, pp. 28-29. (34) See Reber, memorandum to IAC, 18 February 1953. (35) See Chadwell, memorandum for DDI, "Unidentified Flying Objects," 10 February 1953; Chadwell, letter to Robertson, 28 January 1953; and Reber, memorandum for IAC, "Unidentified Flying Objects," 18 February 1953. On briefing the ONE, see Durant, memorandum for the record, "Briefing of ONE Board on Unidentified Flying Objects," 30 January 1953 and CIA Summary disseminated to the field, "Unidentified Flying Objects," 6 February 1953. (36) See Chadwell, letter to Julius A. Stratton, Provost MIT, 27 January 1953. (37) See Chadwell, memorandum for Chief, Physics and Electronics Division/OSI (Todos M. Odarenko), "Unidentified Flying Objects," 27 May 1953. (38) See Odarenko, memorandum to Chadwell, "Unidentified Flying Objects," 3 July 1953. See also Odarenko, memorandum to Chadwell, "Current Status of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOB) Project," 17 December 1953. (39) See Odarenko, memorandum, "Unidentified Flying Objects," 8 August 1955.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 4/4 - CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:27:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:27:45 -0400 Subject: 4/4 - CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 From: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html Part Three of Four =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D (40) See FBIS, report, "Military Unconventional Aircraft," 18=20 August 1953 and various reports, "Military-Air,=20 Unconventional Aircraft," 1953, 1954, 1955. (41) Developed by the Canadian affiliate of Britain's A. V. Roe,=20 Ltd., Project Y did produce a small-scale model that hovered=20 a few feet off the ground. See Odarenko, memorandum to=20 Chadwell, "Flying Saucer Type of Planes" 25 May 1954;=20 Frederic C. E. Oder, memorandum to Odarenko, "USAF Project=20 Y," 21 May 1954; and Odarenko, T. M. Nordbeck, Ops/SI, and=20 Sidney Graybeal, ASD/SI, memorandum for the record,=20 "Intelligence Responsibilities for Non-Conventional Types of=20 Air Vehicles," 14 June 1954. (42) See Reuben Efron, memorandum, "Observation of Flying Object=20 Near Baku," 13 October 1955; Scoville, memorandum for the=20 record, "Interview with Senator Richard B. Russell," 27=20 October 1955; and Wilton E. Lexow, memorandum for=20 information, "Reported Sighting of Unconventional Aircraft,"=20 19 October 1955. (43) See Lexow, memorandum for information, "Reported Sighting of=20 Unconventional Aircraft," 19 October 1955. See also Frank C.=20 Bolser, memorandum for George C. Miller, Deputy Chief,=20 SAD/SI, "Possible Soviet Flying Saucers, Check On;" Lexow,=20 memorandum, "Possible Soviet Flying Saucers, Follow Up On,"=20 17 December 1954; Lexow, memorandum, "Possible Soviet Flying=20 Saucers," 1 December 1954; and A. H. Sullivan, Jr.,=20 memorandum, "Possible Soviet Flying Saucers," 24 November=20 1954. (44) See Gregory W. Pedlow and Donald E. Welzenbach, The Central=20 Intelligence Agency and Overhead Reconnaissance: The U-2 and=20 OXCART Programs, 1954-1974 (Washington, DC: CIA History=20 Staff, 1992), pp. 72-73. (45) See Pedlow and Welzenbach, Overhead Reconnaissance, pp.=20 72-73. This also was confirmed in a telephone interview=20 between the author and John Parongosky, 26 July 1994.=20 Parongosky oversaw the day-to-day affairs of the OXCART=20 program. (46) See Jacobs, The UFO Controversy, p. 135. (47) See Peebles, Watch the Skies, pp. 128-146; Ruppelt, The=20 Report on Unidentified Flying Objects (New York: Doubleday,=20 1956); Keyhoe, The Flying Saucer Conspiracy (New York: Holt,=20 1955); and Jacobs, The UFO Controversy, pp. 347-49. (48) See Strong, letter to Lloyd W. Berkner; Strong, letter to=20 Thorton Page; Strong, letter to Robertson; Strong, letter to=20 Samuel Goudsmit; Strong, letter to Luis Alvarez, 20 December=20 1957; and Strong, memorandum for Major James F. Byrne,=20 Assistant Chief of Staff, Intelligence Department of the Air=20 Force, "Declassification of the `Report of the Scientific=20 Panel on Unidentified Flying Objects,'" 20 December 1957. See=20 also Berkner, letter to Strong, 20 November 1957 and Page,=20 letter to Strong, 4 December 1957. The panel members were=20 also reluctant to have their association with the Agency=20 released. (49) See Wilton E. Lexow, memorandum for the record, "Comments on=20 Letters Dealing with Unidentified Flying Objects," 4 April=20 1958; J. S. Earman, letter to Major Lawrence J. Tacker,=20 Office of the Secretary of the Air Force, Information=20 Service, 4 April 1958; Davidson, letter to Berkner, 8 April=20 1958; Berkner, letter to Davidson, 18 April 1958; Berkner,=20 letter to Strong, 21 April 1958; Davidson, letter to Tacker,=20 27 April 1958; Davidson, letter to Allen Dulles, 27 April=20 1958; Ruppelt, letter to Davidson, 7 May 1958; Strong, letter=20 to Berkner, 8 May 1958; Davidson, letter to Berkner, 8 May=20 1958; Davidson, letter to Earman, 16 May 1958; Davidson,=20 letter to Goudsmit, 18 May 1958; Davidson, letter to Page, 18=20 May 1958; and Tacker, letter to Davidson, 20 May 1958. (50) See Lexow, memorandum for Chapin, 28 July 1958. (51) See Good, Above Top Secret, pp. 346-47; Lexow, memorandum=20 for the record, "Meeting with the Air Force Personnel=20 Concerning Scientific Advisory Panel Report on Unidentified=20 Flying Objects, dated 17 January 1953 (S)," 16 May 1958. See=20 also La Rae L. Teel, Deputy Division Chief, ASD, memorandum=20 for the record, "Meeting with Mr. Chapin on Replying to Leon=20 Davidson's UFO Letter and Subsequent Telephone Conversation=20 with Major Thacker, [sic]" 22 May 1958. (52) See Edwin M. Ashcraft, Chief, Contact Division (Scientific),=20 memorandum to Chief, Chicago Office, "Radio Code Recording,"=20 4 March 1955 and Ashcraft, memorandum to Chief, Support=20 Branch, OSI, 17 March 1955. (53) The Contact Division was created to collect foreign=20 intelligence information from sources within the United=20 States. See the Directorate of Intelligence Historical=20 Series, The Origin and Development of Contact Division, 11=20 July 1946=AD1 July 1965 (Washington, DC; CIA Historical Staff,=20 June 1969). (54) See George O. Forrest, Chief, Chicago Office, memorandum to=20 Chief, Contact Division for Science, 11 March 1955. (55) See Support Division (Connell), memorandum to Dewelt E.=20 Walker, 25 April 1957. (56) See J. Arnold Shaw, Assistant to the Director, letter to=20 Davidson, 10 May 1957. (57) See Support (Connell) memorandum to Lt. Col. V. Skakich, 27=20 August 1957 and Lamountain, memorandum to Support (Connell),=20 20 December 1957. (58) See Lamountain, cable to Support (Connell), 31 July 1958. (59) See Support (Connell) cable to Skakich, 3 October 1957 and=20 Skakich, cable to Connell, 9 October 1957. (60) See Skakich, cable to Connell, 9 October 1957. (61) See R. P. B. Lohmann, memorandum for Chief, Contact=20 Division, DO, 9 January 1958. (62) See Support, cable to Skakich, 20 February 1958 and Connell=20 (Support) cable to Lamountain, 19 December 1957. (63) See Edwin M. Ashcraft, Chief, Contact Division, Office of=20 Operations, memorandum for Austin Bricker, Jr., Assistant to=20 the Director, "Inquiry by Major Donald E. Keyhoe on John=20 Hazen's Association with the Agency," 22 January 1959. (64) See John T. Hazen, memorandum to Chief, Contact Division, 12=20 December 1957. See also Ashcraft, memorandum to Cleveland=20 Resident Agent, "Ralph E. Mayher," 20 December 1957.=20 According to this memorandum, the photographs were viewed at=20 "a high level and returned to us without comment." The Air=20 Force held the original negatives. The CIA records were=20 probably destroyed. (65) The issue would resurface in the 1970s with the GSW FOIA=20 court case. (66) See Robert Amory, Jr., DDI, memorandum for Assistant=20 Director/Scientific Intelligence, "Flying Saucers," 26 March=20 1956. See also Wallace R. Lamphire, Office of the Director,=20 Planning and Coordination Staff, memorandum for Richard M.=20 Bissell, Jr., "Unidentified Flying Saucers (UFO)," 11 June=20 1957; Philip Strong, memorandum for the Director, NPIC,=20 "Reported Photography of Unidentified Flying Objects," 27=20 October 1958; Scoville, memorandum to Lawrence Houston,=20 Legislative Counsel, "Reply to Honorable Joseph E. Garth," 12=20 July 1961; and Houston, letter to Garth, 13 July 1961. (67) See, for example, Davidson, letter to Congressman Joseph=20 Garth, 26 June 1961 and Carl Vinson, Chairman, House=20 Committee on Armed Services, letter to Rep. Robert A.=20 Everett, 2 September 1964. (68) See Maxwell W. Hunter, staff member, National Aeronautics=20 and Space Council, Executive Office of the President,=20 memorandum for Robert F. Parkard, Office of International=20 Scientific Affairs, Department of State, "Thoughts on the=20 Space Alien Race Question," 18 July 1963, File SP 16, Records=20 of the Department of State, Record Group 59, National=20 Archives. See also F. J. Sheridan, Chief, Washington Office,=20 memorandum to Chief, Contact Division, "National=20 Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP)," 25=20 January 1965. (69) Chamberlain, memorandum for DCI, "Evaluation of UFOs," 26=20 January 1965. (70) See Jacobs, The UFO Controversy, p. 199 and US Air Force,=20 Scientific Advisory Board, Ad Hoc Committee (O'Brien=20 Committee) to Review Project BLUE BOOK, Special Report=20 (Washington, DC: 1966). See also The New York Times, 14=20 August 1966, p. 70. (71) See "Congress Reassured on Space Visits," The New York=20 Times, 6 April 1966. (72) Weber, letter to Col. Gerald E. Jorgensen, Chief, Community=20 Relations Division, Office of Information, US Air Force, 15=20 August 1966. The Durant report was a detailed summary of the=20 Robertson panel proceedings. (73) See John Lear, "The Disputed CIA Document on UFOs," Saturday=20 Review (September 3, 1966), p. 45. The Lear article was=20 otherwise unsympathetic to UFO sightings and the possibility=20 that extraterritorials were involved. The Air Force had been=20 eager to provide Lear with the full report. See Walter L.=20 Mackey, Executive Officer, memorandum for DCI, "Air Force=20 Request to Declassify CIA Material on Unidentified Flying=20 Objects (UFO)," 1 September 1966. (74) See Klass, UFOs, p. 40, Jacobs, The UFO Controversy, p. 214=20 and Everet Clark, "Physicist Scores `Saucer Status,'" The New=20 York Times, 21 October 1966. See also James E. McDonald,=20 "Statement on Unidentified Flying Objects," submitted to the=20 House Committee on Science and Astronautics, 29 July 1968. (75) Condon is quoted in Walter Sullivan, "3 Aides Selected in=20 Saucer Inquiry," The New York Times, 8 October 1966. See also=20 "An Outspoken Scientist, Edward Uhler Condon," The New York=20 Times, 8 October 1966. Condon, an outgoing, gruff scientist,=20 had earlier become embroiled in a controversy with the House=20 Unamerican Activities Committee that claimed Condon was "one=20 of the weakest links in our atomic security." See also=20 Peebles, Watch the Skies, pp. 169-195. (76) See Lundahl, memorandum for DDI, 7 February 1967. (77) See memorandum for the record, "Visit of Dr. Condon to NPIC,=20 20 February 1967," 23 February 1967. See also the analysis of=20 the photographs in memorandum for Lundahl, "Photo Analysis of=20 UFO Photography," 17 February 1967. (78) See memorandum for the record, "UFO Briefing for Dr. Edward=20 Condon, 5 May 1967," 8 May 1967 and attached "Guidelines to=20 UFO Photographers and UFO Photographic Information Sheet."=20 See also Condon Committee, Press Release, 1 May 1967 and=20 Klass, UFOs, p. 41. The Zaneville photographs turned out to=20 be a hoax. (79) See Edward U. Condon, Scientific Study of Unidentified=20 Flying Objects (New York: Bantam Books, 1969) and Klass,=20 UFOs, p. 41. The report contained the Durant report with only=20 minor deletions. (80) See Office of Assistant Secretary of Defense, News Release,=20 "Air Force to Terminate Project BLUEBOOK," 17 December 1969.=20 The Air Force retired BLUEBOOK records to the USAF Archives=20 at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama. In 1976 the Air Force=20 turned over all BLUEBOOK files to the National Archives and=20 Records Administration, which made them available to the=20 public without major restrictions. Some names have been=20 withheld from the documents. See Klass, UFOs, p. 6. (81) GSW was a small group of UFO buffs based in Phoenix,=20 Arizona, and headed by William H. Spaulding. (82) See Klass, UFOs, p. 8. (83) See Wilson, letter to Spaulding, 26 March 1976 and GSW v.=20 CIA Civil Action Case 78-859. (84) GSW v. CIA Civil Action Case 78-859, p. 2. (85) Author interview with Launie Ziebell, 23 June 1994 and=20 author interview with OSI analyst, 21 July 1994. See also=20 affidavits of George Owens, CIA Information and Privacy Act=20 Coordinator; Karl H. Weber, OSI; Sidney D. Stembridge, Office=20 of Security; and Rutledge P. Hazzard, DS&T; GSW v. CIA Civil=20 Action Case 78-859 and Sayre Stevens, Deputy Director for=20 National Foreign Assessment, memorandum for Thomas H. White,=20 Assistant for Information, Information Review Committee,=20 "FOIA Litigation Ground Saucer Watch," no date. (86) See "CIA Papers Detail UFO Surveillance," The New York=20 Times, 13 January 1979; Patrick Huyghe, "UFO Files: The=20 Untold Story," The New York Times Magazine, 14 October 1979,=20 p. 106; and Jerome Clark, "UFO Update," UFO Report, August=20 1979. (87) Jerome Clark, "Latest UFO News Briefs From Around the=20 World," UFO Update, August 1979 and GSW v. CIA Civil Action=20 No. 78-859. (88) See Wortman, memorandum for DCI Turner, "Your Question, 'Are=20 we in UFOs?' Annotated to The New York Times News Release=20 Article," 18 January 1979. (89) See GSW v. CIA Civil Action 78-859. See also Klass, UFOs,=20 pp. 10-12. (90) See John Brennan, memorandum for Richard Warshaw, Executive=20 Assistant, DCI, "Requested Information on UFOs," 30 September=20 1993; Author interviews with OSWR analyst, 14 June 1994 and=20 OSI analyst, 21 July 1994. This author found almost no=20 documentation on Agency involvement with UFOs in the 1980s. There is a DIA Psychic Center and the NSA studies=20 parapsychology, that branch of psychology that deals with the=20 investigation of such psychic phenomena as clairvoyance,=20 extrasensory perception, and telepathy. The CIA reportedly is=20 also a member of an Incident Response Team to investigate UFO=20 landings, if one should occur. This team has never met. The=20 lack of solid CIA documentation on Agency UFO-related=20 activities in the 1980s leaves the entire issue somewhat=20 murky for this period. Much of the UFO literature presently focuses on contactees=20 and abductees. See John E. Mack, Abduction, Human Encounters=20 with Aliens (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1994) and=20 Howard Blum, Out There (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1990). (91) See Charles Berlitz and William L. Moore, The Roswell=20 Incident (New York: Berkeley Books, 1988); Moore, "The=20 Roswell Incident: New Evidence in the Search for a Crashed=20 UFO," (Burbank, California: Fair Witness Project, 1982),=20 Publication Number 1201; and Klass, UFOs, pp. 280-281. In=20 1994 Congressman Steven H. Schiff (R-NM) called for an=20 official study of the Roswell incident. The GAO is conducting=20 a separate investigation of the incident. The CIA is not=20 involved in the investigation. See Klass, UFOs, pp. 279-281;=20 John H. Wright, Information and Privacy Coordinator, letter=20 to Derek Skreen, 20 September 1993; and OSWR analyst=20 interview. See also the made-for-TV film, Roswell, which=20 appeared on cable TV on 31 July 1994 and Peebles, Watch the=20 Skies, pp. 245-251. (92) See John Diamond, "Air Force Probes 1947 UFO Claim Findings=20 Are Down to Earth," 9 September 1994, Associated Press=20 release; William J. Broad, "Wreckage of a `Spaceship': Of=20 This Earth (and U.S.)," The New York Times, 18 September=20 1994, p. 1; and USAF Col. Richard L. Weaver and 1st Lt. James=20 McAndrew, The Roswell Report, Fact Versus Fiction in New=20 Mexico Desert (Washington, DC: GPO, 1995). (93) See Good, Above Top Secret; Moore and S. T. Friedman,=20 "Philip Klass and MJ-12: What are the Facts," (Burbank=20 California: Fair-Witness Project, 1988), Publication Number=20 1290; Klass, "New Evidence of MJ-12 Hoax," Skeptical=20 Inquirer, vol. 14 (Winter 1990); and Moore and Jaime H.=20 Shandera, The MJ-12 Documents: An Analytical Report (Burbank,=20 California: Fair-Witness Project, 1990), Publication Number=20 1500. Walter Bedell Smith supposedly replaced Forrestal on 1=20 August 1950 following Forrestal's death. All members listed=20 were deceased when the MJ-12 "documents" surfaced in 1984.=20 See Peebles, Watch the Skies, pp. 258-268. Dr. Larry Bland, editor of The George C. Marshall Papers,=20 discovered that one of the so-called Majestic-12 documents=20 was a complete fraud. It contained the exact same language as=20 a letter from Marshall to Presidential candidate Thomas Dewey=20 regarding the "Magic" intercepts in 1944. The dates and names=20 had been altered and "Magic" changed to "Majic." Moreover, it=20 was a photocopy, not an original. No original MJ-12 documents=20 have ever surfaced. Telephone conversation between the author=20 and Bland, 29 August 1994. EOF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Phoenix Lights & Flares From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:45:20 -0400 Subject: Phoenix Lights & Flares Dear List: Very Briefly, because I will be leaving shortly on travel, a number of you have asked me about how the flares over Phoenix can "hover" in the air, others have asked me to send them images from the video showing the smoke, etc. Here are some answers for you all. 1) These flares, have a Mark 45 output of 840 watt/sec, and emit 1,800,000 candlelight power and are visible from as far away as 50 to 70 miles. When ignited, they emit lots of heat. This HEAT then WARMS UP the air ABOVE the flare, and the resulting warmer air stays "trapped" if you will inside the bubble of the deployed parachute. Because the parachute is a hollow half sphere or dome, a nice pocket of hot air keeps the flair hovering like a hot air balloon, until the heat source, which is the flare, extinguishes itself. This is basic physics, but might be "news" to any of you who have never launched hot air devices before or balloons like I and others have during experiments (and in my case, recreating and showing how Meier faked his "UFO" pictures and recent balloon footage I shot for FOX). 2) I now have video footage of these SAME series of military flares as a control and when you look at this footage the flares are identical. 3) I WILL post after I return some frames which show the smoke and also reports from various witnesses who saw the smoke. These witnesses, of course, were conveniently never mentioned by Jim Dilettoso and company. 4) Finally, the "Phoenix Lights" are a HODGEPODGE of several things. SOME were military flares, while there were other lights over northern Arizona which MOVED and did not just hover...but these lights were reported hours EARLIER! There were also single objects reported as well as multiple objects flying in formation. These earlier incidents, however, are totally DIFFERENT than the later ones around the 10-10:30PM timeframe which were caused by flares. There was also a refueling operation taking place, in mid air, and a squadron of five jets were running afterburners. I have now received dozens of videos from people and have been studying them for analysis. Where Jim Dilettoso gets into trouble is when he tries to fit EVERYTHING into a single, convenient, category. Unfortunately for him, life just isn't always this black and white. I REPEAT: I HAVE NO EXPLANATION AT THIS TIME FOR THE EARLIER PHOENIX LIGHT REPORTS STARTING FROM 8:00PM TO 9:00PM IF I ROUND THE TIME UP. THE LATER SIGHTINGS ARE A DIFFERENT STORY ENTIRELY, and involve FLARES. I am still researching this, and YES Rebecca, I HAVE talked to witnesses and other "experts". The only person who WON'T talk to me is Dilettoso, in fact he has threatened KFYI in Phoenix with a LAWSUIT if they put me on the air next week to discuss and expose Jim Dilettoso and his phony "PhD," etc. The station's lawyers sent Dilettoso a letter giving him until August 10, 1997 to respond to them, and produce his "PhD" from McGill University which Dilettoso has claimed he earned. Of course, as I exposed and show via a FAX from McGill University in my book "Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story", (Page 350) Dilettoso is LYING about this and as the university CONFIRMED, he never earned a PhD from them nor was he ever awarded one. As my book proves, this is just one of MANY FALSE CLAIMS (fraudulent, actually, since they are not simple "mistakes") that Dilettoso makes. In fact, starting tonight on Phoenix station KXAM on the Payton Erskin Show, the very FIRST of a LONG SERIES of EXPOSES on Jim Dilettoso will start airing. If anyone wants tapes of these, email me and I can get you the station's address. MANY PEOPLE ARE COMING OUT EXPOSING DILETTOSO, AND THESE PEOPLE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. There is also an expose of Jim Dilettoso published by the New Times, which cites his jail record (Hoagland has one as well) and how he has conned people. The person tonight on Erskin's show WAS WITH DILETTOSO when he FAKED THE MEIER PHOTO "ANALYSIS" which I ALSO EXPOSED in my Meier expose book referred to above. People like Jim Dilettoso, and other con artists, give UFOlogy a very bad name. The field has so little credibility without these clowns scamming people. But this is why station KXAM plays the song "Flim Flam Man" when they have discussed Jim Dilettoso over the past month or so. I "psychically" PREDICT that Jim Dilettoso will NOT DEBATE ME on KFYI in Phoenix next week and I also "psychically" predict that Dilettoso will NEVER PROVE OR PRODUCE THE EVIDENCE THAT HE HAS A PHD. FROM MCGILL UNIVERSITY OR ANY OTHER ONE LIKE HE CLAIMS HE HAS. I DO HOPE I GET PROVEN WRONG ON THIS. IF THIS WERE TO HAPPEN, WE'D BE BETTER OFF. This is why I LAUGH when Michael Hesemann and Jim Deardorff cite the "scientific analysis" and "authentication" of the Billy Meier UFO photos, because what they are endorsing is Jim Dilettoso's FRAUDULENT activities. These guys KNOW BETTER but for reasons THEY will have to be held accountable for and explain, they continue their deceptions. Lastly, during the recent FOX special while I was filming and Dr. Nathan was there, Dr. Robert Nathan of JPL got a copy of my book on the Meier case (which I gave to him) and I asked him if what I said was accurate. Dr. Nathan said YES, and especially regarding the testimony I quoted from Nathan in my book, which of course DISPROVES Jim Dilettoso AND the Meier case. So the claim by Billy Meier's supporters that JPL and Dr. Nathan "authenticated" the Meier photos is yet another LIE! Ask Nathan yourself, Mr. Deardorff and Michael Hesemann. Hope this clarifies things, see you all on national TV later this week and on national radio next week regarding the Phoenix lights and will get that info and the stills posted for all of you to see. PLEASE, for the GOOD of the UFO field, we need to root out the Richard Hoaglands and Jim Dilettosos. Lying individuals who run around claiming to have PhDs when they do not only HURT the UFO field and do NOT help it. If we don't turn this thing around sson, the media will only blow us off later when we have some REALLY CREDIBLE information and evidence to present, and it will be OUR FAULTS then, because we FAILED TO BE RESPONSIBLE individuals and police ourselves. More importantly, because we didn't bother condemning those people we KNOW are hucksters and con artists, or expose them, we get thrown into their same bin, and judged accordingly, even though this isn't an accurate thing to do. IF THE UFO FIELD WANTS TO GET ITSELF TO START BEING TAKEN SERIOUSLY, THEN QUIT ENDORSING THE DILETTOSO'S AND HOAGLANDS AND BILLY MEIERS of the world. Otherwise, DON'T COMPLAIN if the media doesn't listen to you. And don't then cry "cover up" or "foul," because the REAL cover up and "foul" being committed is by the UFO researchers who don't have the integrity enough to call these charlatans and EXPOSE THEM for what they are! Sorry if I have abused my Constitutional right to use my Caps Lock key. Respectfully yours, Kal Korff Konfuscious saying #41: "NOTHING you say or ever do, NO MATTER HOW MUCH EVIDENCE YOU PRESENT, will ever convince Billy Meier believer fanatics that the case is a hoax and that Meier runs a cult.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 01:28:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 01:28:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares From 'The Billy Meier Story Spaceships of the Pleiades' by Kal K. Korff Published by Prometheus Books, Amherst, New York ISBN0-87975-959-3 page 350 __________________________________ McGill Registrar's Office McGill University 845 Sherbrooke Street West **mes Administration Building Montreal, PQ, Canada H34 2T6 Mr Kal Korff President and Chief Executive Officer TotalResearch San Jose, CA 95132 fax: (408) 934-1206 Sir, I have searched our files and have no record of anyone by the name of Dilettoso (or any variation thereof) as having attended or graduated from McGill University between 1965 to the present. As well, I have searched our listing of Honorary Degree recipients going back to 1975 and we have no record of the above named individual having been awarded an honorary degree. For you information, honorary degrees recipients are selected by a committee in order to recognize their outstanding life achievements. McGill University does not award the degree of Honorary Doctor of Philosophy. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Sincerely, Karen J'bari Secretary to the Registrar (514) 3398-5806 __________________________________ Fig. 117. One of several FAXes I have received from McGill University in Montreal, Canada, regarding Jim Dilettoso. This letter, written for the public record by Ms Karen J'bari, Secretary to the Registrar at McGill University, proves that Jim Dilettoso is not telling the truth when he claims he received a "Ph.D." or an "Honorary doctorate" from McGill. Since at least 1979, Jim Dilettoso has made numerous unfounded claims about both his purported "educational" background and supposed list of professional "accomplishments." Despite demonstrable evidence to the contrary this has never deterred either Genesis III, Gary Kinder, or Wendelle C. Stevens (as well as other Meier supporters) from citing Dilettoso's many fictional claims as if they were established scientific facts.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 01:33:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 01:33:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares From 'The Billy Meier Story Spaceships of the Pleiades' by Kal K. Korff Published by Prometheus Books, Amherst, New York ISBN0-87975-959-3 page 350 __________________________________ McGill Registrar's Office McGill University 845 Sherbrooke Street West **mes Administration Building Montreal, PQ, Canada H34 2T6 Mr Kal Korff President and Chief Executive Officer TotalResearch San Jose, CA 95132 fax: (408) 934-1206 Sir, I have searched our files and have no record of anyone by the name of Dilettoso (or any variation thereof) as having attended or graduated from McGill University between 1965 to the present. As well, I have searched our listing of Honorary Degree recipients going back to 1975 and we have no record of the above named individual having been awarded an honorary degree. For you information, honorary degrees recipients are selected by a committee in order to recognize their outstanding life achievements. McGill University does not award the degree of Honorary Doctor of Philosophy. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Sincerely, Karen J'bari Secretary to the Registrar (514) 3398-5806 __________________________________ Fig. 117. One of several FAXes I have received from McGill University in Montreal, Canada, regarding Jim Dilettoso. This letter, written for the public record by Ms Karen J'bari, Secretary to the Registrar at McGill University, proves that Jim Dilettoso is not telling the truth when he claims he received a "Ph.D." or an "Honorary doctorate" from McGill. Since at least 1979, Jim Dilettoso has made numerous unfounded claims about both his purported "educational" background and supposed list of professional "accomplishments." Despite demonstrable evidence to the contrary this has never deterred either Genesis III, Gary Kinder, or Wendelle C. Stevens (as well as other Meier supporters) from citing Dilettoso's many fictional claims as if they were established scientific facts.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Another Question for Kal From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:46:24 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 01:33:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal >Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 22:46:05 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Another Question for Kal >>How does he prove these are "flares" when the videos >>show the lights hover in place? >Yes, indeed, Mr. Korff, please do elucidate. While you're >at it, please do give a detailed explanation how it's possible >that _airborne_ flares are capable of remaining motionless >in _one_ spot for quite some time. The laws of Physics say >otherwise. Please do not insult my intelligence by claiming that >the parachute was being held aloft by virtue of the thermal energy >produced by a flare. That's even MORE lame than the pathetic >excuse of the "Roswell dummies" that the USAF trotted out. Well, er, uh, yes, but the question here would be, wouldn't it, I think, exactly _how long_ is "quite some time"? Who has the longest "hanging" video, in other words, and just how long is it? And just out of curiousity, how long does your average flare hang and shine, on a good night? Why is anyone's intelligence insulted by suggesting that hot air rises? Isn't this, after all, the way that hot air balloons work? Wouldn't the military have an obvious, not to mention economical, interest in having flares stay aloft as long as possible -- or do I insult anyone's intelligence by suggesting that there might actually be a flare technology? Come to think of it, I guess it would make more sense to attach a lead weight to every flare dropped, wouldn't it, the better to get it to ground in a hurry. For God's sakes, people, the _purpose_ of a flare, its raison d'etre (someone stop me before I launch into a Monty Python take on this subject) is to a) provide as much illumination as possible, b) for as long as possible. WHYINHELLDOYOUTHINKTHEYCALLTHEMFLARESINTHEFIRSTEFFINGPLACE! Now I don't personally care whether Kal Korff is a professional debunker doing double shift duty when he's not traveling, writing books, answering (or not answering) email, or whatever. Nor do I personally care whether the Phoenix Phlares were real UFOs or real flares -- as it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference in the overall scheme of things anymore than the Washington National Airport sightings did, and they took place 45 years ago this month. Or last month, now, to be precise. So what's everyone getting so overheated about anyway? What I will say is this, however. Many of the lights in most of the TV videos I've seen display characteristics that could at least be considered to be associated with flare behavior. That is, they come on in sequence, hang and drift, and then go out in sequence. If anyone wants to argue that that sequence of events is actually more characteristic of the "classic" UFO than the classic flare, then please help yourself. (Note that I am _not_ referring to the V-formation here.) >And Kal, quit BS'ing the list cos we know you're >"I'm so busy" excuses got old some time back. Any >of us who do shipping knew damned well full in >advance over 4 weeks ago that a UPS strike was >possible. >Don Not exactly. I do, and I didn't. But then I don't use UPS. I'm a Book Rate kinda guy.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 06:59:42 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 01:36:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations >From: RSchatte@aol.com >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 22:52:17 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations >Subj: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations >Date: 97-08-02 22:37:37 EDT >From: AOL News >BCC: RSchatte >.c The Associated Press > WASHINGTON (AP) - With growing hysteria over alleged UFO >sightings in the 1950s, the Air Force repeatedly concocted false >cover stories to hide the fact that their super-secret spy planes >had been spotted, an intelligence study says. > Historian Gerald K. Haines writes that the Air Force, responding >to alleged UFO sightings during the Cold War years, frequently >provided explanations that were untrue to deflect attention away >from the spy planes. > ``Over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the >1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights (namely >the U-2) over the United States,'' Haines wrote in the spring issue >of Studies of Intelligence, an unclassified CIA journal. <snipped> > Air Force investigators ``aware of the secret U-2 flights tried >to explain away such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena >such as ice crystals and temperature inversions,'' Haines wrote. > By 1956, the Air Force internally had clear explanations for 96 >percent of all UFO sightings, Haines wrote, referring to the >experimental aircraft. ``They were careful, however, not to reveal >the true cause of the sighting to the public.'' Now let me get this straight. So the US Air Force was very happy with the 'UFO hysteria' in the fifties because people assumed that they were extraterrestrial spaceships instead of secret spy planes. This was a nice cover for the U2 and later the SR71. But strangely enough, the USAF's own Project Blue Book concluded in 1969 that: 'Look people, you are all mistaken. There are no ETs flying around.' In other words, the USAF blew its own cover. Since then it developed a host of secret aircraft, like F117, B2, A12, Have Blue, Aurora, and everyone who spotted such planes before they were officially acknowledged immediately knew that they must be secret aircraft, because they could not have been from Sirius, because that's what the Air Force had said. Hm, seems like the National Reconnaissance Office, that did this study, had better do some more reconnaissance in USAF files. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Phoenix Lights and Flares From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 01:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 01:49:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights and Flares >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:05:17 -0400 (EDT) >Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:45:20 -0400 >Subject: Phoenix Lights & Flares [Post Snipped for Brevity] Kal, Kal, Kal.... I don't believe you have video showing smoke. How can a home video show smoke from a flare that was SOOOOOOOO far away from the camera? Once again Kal, you storm to the scene making all sorts of comments which have nothing to do with the Phoenix Sightings. I don't care about your books, your feud with Jim D., your travel plans, your appearances on national TV, or what a fantastic person you are. I don't happen to share the high opinion you have of yourself. I can make my own evaluations of what I deem credible and noncredible evidence. I happen to believe the flare theory. What I don't believe is the way you try to take credit for everything. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Phoenix Lights and Flares From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 03:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:24:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights and Flares Recently, Rebecca wrote the following: <snip> >I don't care about your books, >your feud with Jim D., your travel plans, your appearances on national TV, >or what a fantastic person you are. I don't happen to share the high >opinion you have of yourself. Rebecca, WHAT have I ever done to you?? OK, if you don't care to tune in later next week to learn about newly discovered Project Blue Book files on UFOs that remain CLASSIFIED, that's your issue. I think many other UFO researchers are interested in this subject and I am funding an effort to try and keep pressure on our government to release it's classified records on UFOs. Specifically, to get this material. I will also fund a lawsuit if necessary to get this material. Care to help PAY these costs?? This is EXCITING MATERIAL, REBECCA, AND WE HAVE CAUGHT OUR GOVERNMENT LYING RED-HANDED about it. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you quit playing "psychic" regarding my motivations, efforts, activities, etc., concerning what I am doing. You can't possibly know, because I haven't told you, and your batting average so far is ZERO. I will make apologies to no one for this. As soon as the show is taped I will let everyone know when it airs and ask that they help join me in this effort. The more exposure this effort gets and the more people behind it the better. I am just the messenger and since others involved in this effort did not want to go on such a highly-rated daytime talkshow, I agreed. Also, UNLIKE MOST UFOlogists, I HAVE ACCESS TO THE MEDIA and THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH USING THESE CONNECTIONS TO PRESSURE OUR GOVERNMENT. I also DON'T NEED YOUR BLESSING ON WHAT I DO AND HOW I DO IT. I REALLY wish you would check with me FIRST before hurling accusations that only make you look foolish. Regarding my "fued" with Jim Dilettoso, I HAVE NONE! Just WHERE did I SAY I EVER HAD ONE, Rebecca?? Well??? I AWAIT your answer. My ONLY concern is that Dielettoso has shown some of the SAME fraudulent scam activities regrading these Phoenix lights as he did with the Meier case and instead of the UFO field taking him to task over it, they either don't know this, ignore it, or remain silent. THIS IS INEXCUSABLE! Finally, I will NOT be the only one showing the smoke and eyewitness testimonies about the flares. I AM NOT WORKING BY MYSELF ON THIS and if you had bothered listening to some Phoenix radio broadcasts you would know better. Lastly, if you were to ask me (sincerely!) about my "opinion" of myself I really have none other than I am trying to separate the fact from the fiction here. I really don't care if I ever appear on another show, if it happens fine, if it does not, fine as well. However, I get ASKED to do them all the time, just like the Discovery Channel is coming up to film a documentary on the Phoenix lights that will air in August. I am one of MANY people participating in this. I am also working on two more FOX specials, and was the MAIN CONSULTANT on the recent FOX production. They sought me out, I did not seek them out. Deal with it, Rebecca. WHY are you critizing ME INSTEAD OF UFO "EXPERTS" WHO GO AROUND LYING ABOUT HAVING PHDs?? Please answer THIS, Rebecca, inquiring minds want to know. Or, at least I do. Thanks again, and I look forward to your APOLOGY when I present the smoke evidence and the smoke eyewitness testimonies. Kal
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 17:16:22 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:11:37 -0400 Subject: Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book >From: DianaOmega@aol.com [Dianne Cameron] >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:11:27 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book >> > Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 15:37:57 -0700 >> > From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca> >> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> > Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >> Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book >> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:58:41 -0700 >> > Einstein's theory of Relativity is being seriously >> > challenged. >> By who? According to which experiments performed by who, and confirmed by >> who else, and published in which peer-reviewed journal? >You might find more fuel for your arguments in Hal Puthoff's >work. For example >Physics Essays, vol 9, number 1, 1996: >SETI, the Velocity-of-Light Limitation, and the >Alcubierre Warp Drive: An Integrating Overview Alcubierre requires "negative energy". It is NO challenge to relativity. If "negative energy" is ever found to exists, only then could it pose a threat to the idea of a luminal speed barrier. On the other hand 'time-dilation' which is predicted by relativity is proven everyday by the GPS system. Dave Everett.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Phoenix Lights and Flares From: TotlResrch@aol.com[Kal Korff] Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 04:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:27:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights and Flares Rebecca, in a recent verbal missile you launched against me without foundation you wrote: <snip> >I happen to believe the flare theory. What I don't believe is >the way you try <to take credit for everything. OK, so we AGREE that the Phoenix lights are caused by flares. Good for you, Rebecca. But for what it's worth, I do NOT AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE EARLIER SIGHTINGS THAT night were caused by flares. Only the later ones around 10PM that Jim Dilettoso has erroneously "analyzed" with his typical computer psuedoscience. I have a video, Rebecca, and am one of only a few people who have it, of the EARLIER Phoenix lights and THEY MOVE AND FLY IN A V FORMATION. THESE ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT FLARES, Rebecca, so PLEASE get a clue. BUT NOT BEING PSYCHIC, REBECCA, AND OF COURSE BEING AS UNINFORMED AS USUAL WITH REGARDS TO AT LEAST ME (I cant and won't speak for any other areas where this deficiency of yours may also exist) YOU COULDN'T POSSIBLY KNOW THIS. JUST HOW, REBECCA, AND WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THAT I AM TRYING TO "TAKE CREDIT FOR EVERYTHING?" I await your answer, because I am NOT and HAVE NOT. In fact, Rebecca, to be BLUNT, this is a BLATANT LIE on your part. So, WHERE'S YOUR PROOF? The material I have on Phoenix was and has been supplied to me by various people in that city and some damned good investigators I have been working with. However, because some of these people can't get access to some of the media outlets I can, I am helping them. And IF they felt as you do, they certainly would not help me. Also, until we finish our report and other activities now is NOT the proper time to release information as it would be PREMATURE. Our investigation is STILL CONTINUING, but winding down. When it is done, we'll go public which is the proper thing to do. So what's your "problem", Rebecca? Are you jealous or something? I certainly hope not, and could care less if you were/are. As I said in another post, if you had bothered listening to KXAM in Phoenix over the past 5 WEEKS you would be more properly informed. Instead, you are making a VERY PUBLIC FOOL out of yourself in this forum. Kongratulations. Kal Korff Konfuscious saying #28: "Be careful, if you try to help other researchers with UFO investigations, and others learn about it, they'll accuse you of 'taking credit for everything' when all you are doing is coordinating your efforts with those of others who are looking at the same issue and working WITH them as a TEAM." Konfuscious saying #33: "When you receive nearly 500 emails a day, if you don't disclose the fact that you will be on travel well in advance, you'll be accused of DUCKING the issues. On the other hand, once you tell everyone WHY you'll be unavailable for over a week, they'll criticize you for mentioning WHY you will be indisposed and wrongly accuse you of being full of yourself."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 UFOSearch #9 part 1/4 - Science, From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 04:53:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:29:13 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #9 part 1/4 - Science, This reissue corrects the email "Subject:" heading so that the part number is visible. This is the ninth in the series of essays by UFOSearch that I am posting to UFO UpDate. Commentary: After the hoopla and revelations, treachery and deceit surrounding the anniversary of the "Roswell Incident" perhaps it's time to step back and reassess our approach to the study of the UFO phenomenon. "UFOs, Science and Counterintelligence" offers a charming melange of topics for our consideration. It is with particular pleasure that I post this ninth UFOSearch essay to UFO UpDate. This essay, "Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs" has not been published previously and makes its debut here. This will be a four-part essay. I believe that this essay will mark a watershed in writing on the UFO phenomenon and I hope that it will be followed by a other new expositions and perhaps as a book. Personally I was disappointed by one of the recent book releases of which I had great expectations, Jim Marr's "Alien Agenda". Just as the topics and issues he was exploring got interesting his book came to a close, perhaps his advance ran out? Well I don't think you will be disappointed here as the author treads where most writers on the UFO phenomenon don't dare. Gary Alevy NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. If you would like to correspond with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com -------------------------------------------------------------- Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Val Germann Columbia, Missouri (C) 1997 Abstract The "UFO" and the issues surrounding it have become extremely important today, for at least four reasons: 1) The "UFO" is now a mass phenomenon, known to hundreds of millions of people around the world and the subject of significant business activity in the form of motion pictures, television and books; 2) Many people, some with excellent credentials, some quite wealthy, have gone beyond simple "interest" and have joined with others in "UFO organizations" or have begun their own research; 3) The "UFO" has generated a great deal of government interest, most of it negative in nature, that is, opposing the "extra-terrestrial" hypothesis and downgrading the importance of UFO sightings; 4)There is, however, significant evidence to suggest that the "UFO" is the product of another, non-human, intelligence operating on Earth with humanity. After a discussion of the first three items above the fourth one will be selected for particular attention. If UFOs are assumed to be the products of another intelligence then the "scientific model," held up as the ideal by many involved in the study of the "UFO," is not sufficient for that study and "counterintelligence" should be added to the model we use. The paper will conclude with a counterintelligence analysis of much extant UFO evidence and then go on to generate possible scenarios from that analysis. The scenarios are then rated as to their plausibility, using the rules of counterintelligence. Reference numbers in the text, example, "[1]", refer to notes that will appear at the end of the paper. These notes will contain both references and a discussion of those references. Introduction If there is any one constant in UFO research it is the never-ending call for ufology to become more scientific. Over and over again those of us investigating the phenomenon are urged to seek the hard, scientific proof that will once and for all establish UFOs in the world of mainstream science. The assumption behind all of this is that the best way to study UFOs is through science and the scientific method. But is this assumption correct? I maintain that it is not always correct and I state this even though I am involved in the sciences myself and have a great love for science and great respect for many scientists. But the truth is that science and the scientific method are dependent on certain assumptions that may not apply to the study of UFOs, especially if they are in fact the products of another intelligence. The scientific method demands repeatability of either observation or experiment. Science assumes the universe is objective, in effect a gigantic mechanism operating with total consistency over vast stretches of time and space. Science also assumes that the only active intelligences operating in the universe are scientists themselves and so scientific experiments and observations can, if rigorous enough, be termed proof. [1] All of the above implies control (of observation or experiment) on the part of the observer or experimenter, and blind obedience to totally consistent laws on the part of the phenomena observed or experimented upon. These are the bedrock assumptions upon which all physical science is based. However, the plain fact is that if UFOs are under the control of another intelligence then these assumptions can very often be null and void. This does not mean that science and technology are of little or no use in investigating UFOs, not at all. But it does mean that the assumptions of science are not always relevant where UFOs are concerned. And it also means that efforts to make the assumptions of science the sole rubric for UFO research could doom all of that research to eventual failure. Finally, it means that there may never be available any so-called "proof" in the UFO arena. All we may ever have is "evidence." Thus it is my position that since we may be dealing with another intelligence in studying the UFO, we should consider adding the counterintelligence model to our intellectual arsenals. It costs nothing to do this and the benefits might include the clarification of many issues that have been quite baffling in the past. The Importance Of UFOs Today The constellation of phenomena revolving around the UFO have become quite important today. Millions of people are interested in the subject and over the last half-century mass entertainment has gone to the well of the "UFO" or "aliens" over and over again. In the mid-1990s this has reached what might be an all-time high as ultra-expensive Hollywood movies have depicted invasions by alien beings who wreaked havoc on our planet before being defeated. At the same time, both television and film have featured the "UFO abduction" and this element of the phenomenon is now to be seen in comic strips and even in political cartoonery. This is important because one effect of consideration of the UFO is collateral consideration of the human condition, particularly the situation of the one performing the consideration. That is, the study of the UFO can change a person, especially one who is serious about the study and also serious-minded. The advent of "aliens" from off-planet, another "dimension" or wherever would be a huge watershed in human history, huge in ways that we have no way to truly anticipate. It is this aspect that gives some of those who investigate UFOs serious pause about the future, so great do the uncertainties seem. Others, viewing the evidence differently, see only benefits accruing from the arrival of "others" from beyond. Involved with the UFO today are thousands of people, most of whom are not "serious-minded" but are nonetheless interested in the phenomenon. This is true of many "hot subjects" in our world today and is to be expected. What is interesting about the 1990s is that the UFO has appeared to rapidly move up the social ladder and now very wealthy people are spending their money, and large amounts of it, in public, in the UFO arena. Why should this be? Well, one particular twist to the UFO situation is that the subject is entangled with other very important human considerations. That is, the UFO is associated with "space" and its technology as well as the possible human future there; it is associated with the possible arrival on Earth of another "civilization" and what that might mean to us all; it is associated with "the future" in general, which is of obvious importance and, finally, because of the magnitude of some elements of the UFO and our government's involvement with same, the UFO is associated with a growing mistrust of all of our institutions, including the government. As you can see, this is no trivial list, all the items of some importance and all of them tending to make one THINK about the future -- and one's position in that future. One possible result of the above could be a change in the way a person thinks and feels about his own HUMAN condition and how that condition came to be. Such considerations, potentially affecting millions of people as the "UFO" becomes more and more of a mainstream phenomenon, cannot go unnoticed by those at the top our human power structure. Finally, as mentioned before, there is the strong possibilty, supported by very significant evidence, that the UFO and the phenomena around it are the products of another intelligence, one operating on Earth with us today. It is this aspect of the UFO, and the study of that aspect, that is the primary subject of this paper, though the other elements are important and will not be ignored as we move through our discussion. The Case For Another Intelligence I maintain that any respectable study of the available evidence will show that there is ample reason to consider that another intelligence is operating on the Earth today. The literature is replete with examples and I will be citing some soon. Because I am a witness to a UFO (40+ years ago) I will be selecting incidents that are important to me, either because they resemble what I saw as a child or because I have received, first hand, a similiar account. As a researcher I have an affinity for accounts that have been taken from a reputable journal and are so strange that "ordinary" objects or processes are simply ruled out from the start. Two such are discussed in one of my favorite books, Aime Michel's THE TRUTH ABOUT FLYING SAUCERS, (1956). [2] On page 26 begins an account of an enormous shadow that appeared in a thin overcast at Fort Worth, Texas, in 1913, reported in the MONTHLY WEATHER REVIEW. The shadow began as a small dark circle but then quickly expanded to considerable size, holding its position as the clouds moved with the wind. After a time the shadow began to shrink in size and in a few moments it was gone the same way it had come. As Michel says, what else can it have been but a "vehicle" of some sort, descending from a great height to just above the clouds, stopping for some time at a fixed altitude, and then ascending back to the great height from which it had come? The year, 1913, rules out a whole group of explanations and the fact that it was able to hold its position against the wind rules out a few more. The conclusion is all but forced. This is important to me because a similiar thing was reported by a friend of mine, except what he saw was a huge, bright, lighted area moving swiftly in a thick overcast. There was no sound, no meteor reported, and the light was very, very bright. Another account from Michel concerns a French meteorologist who was part of a garrison at Adar-En-Abnet, in the heart of the Sahara. It was early April, 1942, when one morning someone pointed out what looked like a small aluminum speck in the sky. Very soon a small telescope was put into play and forty men observed something that looked like "a small moon" with "a pale metallic glint." It appeared to be rotating slowly, once in every two-and-a-half hours. They watched it off and on all day. The next morning, it was still there, "immediately overhead," and it stayed all of that day! On the morning of the third day it was gone. My readers are invited to speculate on what this might have been, in the middle of a remote desert during World War II. Long ago, when I was in junior high school and on the football team, at practice, I watched several "aluminum specks" hold their position in the sky to the east of my hometown of Carrollton, Missouri. The year was 1962 and I, and others, watched them for at least half an hour as they just sat, still, seemingly at a terrific altitude. Then one moment we looked and they were gone, nowhere to be seen. Moving back, to 1951, let's examine a series of incidents from Ruppelt's THE REPORT ON UNIDENTIFED FLYING OBJECTS. [3] In a report from Kirtland Air Force Base Ruppelt learned that on August 25, 1951, an employee of Sandia Corporation had seen a gigantic "flying wing" from his home. The employee was sitting in his back yard, near Albuquerque, New Mexico, when both he and his wife saw a "gigantic airplane" fly swiftly and silently over their home. The "airplane" was low, about 1,000 feet, and was huge, as large as a B-36, and it was delta-shaped, actually more like a "V", flying point-first. The bottom of the craft seemed to have longitudinal lines on it and the trailing edge had six blue lights attached. The Sandia employee included a sketch of the object and Ruppelt found that he had a high security clearance. This report was confidential and was not made public until Ruppelt's book appeared. Even inside the Air Force only a few people knew about it. This was important because on that same night, and twenty minutes later, began the famous "Lubbock Light" series of episodes, in which several college professors (including one whose last name was Oberg!) saw a formation of lights move silently overhead, on more than one occasion. In early September Ruppelt himself went to Lubbock and interviewed many people who had seen the lights, some of which were similiar to those seen on the back of the "flying wing" by the Sandia employee. Then Ruppelt got a real shock. On his way back to Dayton, on a commercial flight, he happened to wind up seated next to a retired rancher from the Lubbock area, who, after talking to Ruppelt for a bit, told the Air Force officer his story. It seems that about ten minutes before the Lubbock professors saw their lights, this gentleman's wife had seen, from their backyard, a huge airplane without a body and with soft blue lights on the trailing edge. His wife was, the rancher said, "as white as a sheet" just after she saw this object, it was so large and strange. This group of sightings has great import for me because as a child I saw a large, dark, "V-shaped" object fly over my head while I was riding a tricycle on our front sidewalk. I did not see or hear this object coming, rather I suddenly had the urge to look straight up, to the zenith, and there the object was. And it frightened the daylights out of me. I remember looking around for places to hide from this thing and, finding none, I ran into the house and hid. So I understand how the rancher's wife felt! Our next incident is from the much maligned Condon Report [4] and is a perfect example of how that "investigation" was mismanaged. On page 277 of the Bantam paperback edition is "Case 10" of Section IV, in which the principal witness, a NUCLEAR PHYSICIST, and his family had a very frightening experience while driving in their car on vacation in 1966. On a dark, rainy and drizzly night, under a low overcast, they saw a red, pulsating hemisphere, at treetop height, suddenly turn into a brilliant white object that lit up the surrounding terrain like daylight and forced the witnesses to shield their eyes. The physicist immediately stopped his car and made measurements from estimated bearings and distances. Later, after further study, he concluded that the white object was the equivalent of a 500 megawatt source. The Condon "team" (Saunders and Wadsworth) went to the site with the principal witness "and an astronomer friend." A helicopter and a transit were employed, to what effect not specified. Later, the principal witness spent a considerable amount of time and money on his own investigation (obviously NOT impressed with what the Condon team was doing), and ruled out all conventional explanations, at least in his own mind. The Condon Report does not even try to "explain" this case and in the "comment" section lamely states that the witness' estimate of the object's brightness was probably in error. Once again, this incident is of great interest to me because over the last 20 years I have been told of two events of a very similiar nature. In 1973, a General Telephone employee was driving, late at night, about fifteen miles northwest of Columbia, Missouri, when she saw a brilliant orange object lift out of a soybean field near the Missouri River and head upwards and out of sight at great speed. This object lit up the entire river valley as far as the witness could see -- about six miles! Another such incident was told to me in 1989 and only month after it happened. A woman living about twenty miles due west of Columbia observed, at close range (about 50 feet), a brilliant white object which lit up the entire valley in which she lived. Terrified (she had her small son in her vehicle) she drove at high speed out of the valley and, turning around, saw the object change to a large orange disk just before she lost sight of it over a hill. This lady did not return home that night and stayed with relatives until her fear abated. I find these accounts quite persuasive and for my puposes could stop with them. But I must include a report from one of my heroes where UFOs are concerned, Dr. James E. McDonald. In the text he filed with the American Association for the Advancement of Science, in 1969, in conjunction with a speech he gave that year, he includes a powerful investigation of four very interesting Condon cases. We will be concerned with one of them, from Kirtland Air Force Base, in the year 1957. It is truly spectacular. [5] On an overcast and drizzly night in November, two air traffic controllers at Kirtland saw, from the tower, a small, bizarre object come down out of the overcast and "fly" down the main runway. The object slowed quickly and then moved diagonally across the field, at less than 50 feet altitude, before stopping over a restricted B-58 Hustler refueling area. The two controllers got a very good look at this object, through binoculars, and found that it was about the size of an automobile, roughly egg-shaped, and "flying" with its long axis in the vertical position. It made no sound. The object then began moving again, as if its operators were looking for something, before shooting back up into the overcast at amazing speed, faster than any conventional aircraft could have done, according to these two experienced witnesses. This object was tracked on radar for some minutes following this overflight and turned around and came back over Kirtland some minutes later. McDonald found that the "Condon Team," which had included this incident in an incomplete and garbled form, had never located or questioned these two men and had "explained" their sighting as a private plane getting lost on an evening of low visibility, about as laughable an "explanation" one is ever likely to see. I think these incidents will suffice to give the flavor of many, many other similiar ones. If one will go to the trouble to examine this evidence, with an open mind, one not influenced by what others have said about the authors or their works, one cannot help but be impressed. This is what happened to me. Finally, after much consideration, I made the decision that the evidence for another intelligence operating on the Earth was so impressive that not to accept it was tantamount to intellectual dishonesty. That is, I realized that, objectively speaking, there almost had to be another intelligence operating here on Earth. And once this momentous decision was taken, it became paramount to study this intelligence and what it was doing on Earth, if such a thing was possible. It was then that I realized that science was a useful but insufficent tool for this task and that I needed (and it was obvious once it came to me) "counter-intelligence," a "counter" to this other, unknown, intelligence. Notes To Section One [1] For a wonderful exposition on science and how it works see OVERSKILL, Eugene S. Schwartz, Quadrangle Books, 1971, pp. 12-37. The author was a biologist and environmental activist. [2] Aime Michel's THE TRUTH ABOUT FLYING SAUCERS, Criterion Books, 1956, is a favorite of mine. Many intereting European sightings are discussed and Michel publishes a terrific critique of Menzel's first debunking book. The Sahara desert series of sightings begins on page 100. [3] Edward J. Ruppelt's THE REPORT ON UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS, 1956, Doubleday. The events surrounding the Lubbock Lights are described beginning on page 96. This book is a classic and buried within it are many, many fascinating accounts which could have led to yet another book. It is too bad that Ruppelt died so young. [4] THE SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS, Edward U. Condon, project director, Bantam Books, 1969. Close reading of this work reveals that the "conclusions" section has very little to do with the "case study" section. [5] Speech by Dr. James E. McDonald before the American Associ- ation For the Advancement Of Science in Boston, December, 1969, available from The Fund For UFO Research. See also McDonald's testimony before Congress in July, 1968, as reported in John G. Fuller's ALIENS IN THE SKIES, Putnam, 1969, pp. 64-96. What is striking about McDonald's AAAS speech is his professional skewering of both Hynek and Menzel, as well as the Air Force and Edward Condon. And McDonald, as a world-renowned atmospheric scientist, had the expertise to make his criticisms truly sting. It is unfortunate that he killed himself before his first book could be put into print. [End -- Part One of Four]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 UFOSearch #9 part 2/4 - Science, From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 04:39:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:29:56 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #9 part 2/4 - Science, Several people have been unable to locate part 2 of the essay. The title now more clearly identifies the part and a formatting problem is corrected. This is part two of the ninth essay by UFOSearch posted on UFO UpDate. This essay is being published for the first time on this list. Gary Alevy -------------------------------------------------------------- Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Val Germann Columbia, Missouri (C) 1997 Part Two of Four Counterintelligence And UFO Analysis The assumptions of science, as discussed in Part One, mean that the great power of science is most properly used in the study of the natural world, a world considered to be "objective" and subject to totally consistent laws. Science and the resulting technology have given us enormous benefits and powers, most of them involving the exploitation of this same natural world. It should be obvious that if another intelligence moves into that natural world with us then it is no longer "objective" and that the scientific method is going run into problems.[6] This is because the activities of this hypothetical other intelligence almost certainly WILL NOT be what we would call understandable and consistent, especially in the beginning. Therefore, when such evidence as might be created by this other intelligence is presented to science, to any scientific study, it will most likely be rejected, due to the inconsistencies and lack of understanding that would probably be involved. And this assumes that the other intelligence is NOT interested in making itself less than understandable, that is, it is not interested in "fooling" us or distracting us for its own purposes, purposes which may be, no, almost certainly WILL be, very difficult to understand under any circumstances. It is for these reasons that any investigation of the UFO should use science and technology in a manner quite different from how they are used by science itself. It seems obvious to this writer that the counterintelligence paradigm or model is what we should be using most of the time with UFOs. Let us proceed on this assumption and look at counterintelligence and how it might be used in the investigation of the UFO. A Counterintelligence Method For the UFO investigator counterintelligence begins with a cold hard look at his limitations: 1) The investigator is a human being attempting to make sense of actions that might be due to an equal or superior intelligence, an intelligence with large resources at its disposal. 2) Because of 1) above, absolute certainty is probably not going to ever be obtained vis-a-vis the UFO. That is, the investigator is probably never going to KNOW what the UFO is and/or is doing. 3) What the investigator is going to have is evidence, evidence from which possibilities will have to be deduced and studied. 4) From these possibilities one or two will eventually have to be selected. That is, a tentative conclusion is going to be created and accepted, if only as a step toward focussing future research. 5) Finally, action is going to have be recommended or taken based on that conclusion, to be reached at some future time. 6) Because the investigator is not connected to the government or other large-scale resource, and he is not a full-time UFO researcher, he has severe time and money limitations. Therefore, the research is going to take some time, probably many years. 7) Because the subject of the UFO is on the cultural fringe in the United States today, there will be certain risks for the investigator. His family may not approve, nor may some of his co-workers and or superiors. These factors also tend to slow things down and limit the personal resources available. 8) In view of items 1) through 7) above the investigator has to be very judicious in the use of his time and money. He really cannot afford to "waste" too much of either. Therefore, anyone who deliberately attempts to waste his time in the UFO arena is doing some real damage since there is little surplus available. 9) Through all of the above the investigator is going to have to maintain his emotional commitment and stability. This is sometimes very difficult when the investigator is working alone. Yet things get little better if the investigator bands together with others in the field. UFO investigators tend to be, due to the nature of the subject, an independent and sometimes difficult lot. It is quite easy to become distracted. 10) Thus, in the end, the investigator will become an autodidact of a sort, almost totally self-taught and self-referential. This creates more problems, especially in the hoped-for event that the investigator discovers something of real value. How would such a discovery be communicated, and to whom? That is, who can truly be trusted? This is a consideration of consequence if you bother to look at the bizarre careers of purported UFO "evidence" in the past. Such evidence is always attacked, quickly, and by people with standing and money. This is always very difficult to take. 11) Then, unfortunately, there are other considerations, ones of an even more unpleasant nature. UFO investigators have in the past gotten themselves into trouble with several of our human "authorities," either because the investigator caused them a problem or was indiscreet vis-a-vis protected information and/or facilities. And then there are the "others," whomever "they" are, IF they are. It sometimes appears that "they" take a hand as well, and that can be a BIG problem for the investigator. So, in consideration of the items above, how can counterintelligence help us? Well, I believe it can help us in three ways: 1) Counterintelligence is quite comfortable with that bugaboo of conventional science, uncertainty. Physics demands that gravity "work" all the time while counterintelligence can live quite well with phenomena that "work" only part of the time. 2) Counterintelligence can deal with opposition, with an opponent, and with the fact that this "other intelligence" is truly unknown, as are its motives. 3) Counterintelligence is at its heart a defensive methodology, concerned with security, and taking very little at face value. What could be more useful if the UFO truly does represent the actions of an unknown intelligence on Earth? Upon reflections it seems obvious, the UFO investigator should acquire a counterintelligence frame of mind, a set of attitudes following from the weaknesses and uncertainties outlined above: 1) The UFO, if it represents another intelligence, will be very difficult to understand. There will be no certainty. 2) This other intelligence, if it exists, is here for a serious purpose, not to provide nighttime entertainment for human beings or to admire Niagara Falls. This must be true no matter "who" is involved or "where" they are from. Resources are being expended and this must entail a cost, in energy if nothing else. 3) While it certainly is possible that this other intelligence is here for our benefit, it is not likely that this is the principal reason "they" are here. That is, the chance that this "other intelligence" has crossed time and space, and incurred significant costs, simply to help us out, is surely vanishingly small. And a little reflection will reveal that whatever these others might call "help" might mean something entirely different to us. 4) Therefore this other intelligence could well be "hostile," in some way or other, on some time scale or other, and in ways that might not be immediately obvious to human beings. 5) Thus, extreme caution must be used, both in evaluation of UFO evidence and the scenarios and conclusions derived from that evidence. We human beings truly do not KNOW what is happening. 6) If the UFO is "real" and a product of another intelligence then the "human/UFO" axis is very important. The UFO is now known to hundreds of millions of human beings, and may have been seen (or worse) by millions of others. Without a doubt, the UFO is interacting with humans in some way or other, perhaps in hopes of influencing the actions of those humans within human society. 7) Item 6) above opens up a counterintelligence Pandora's box, one that requires close study of HUMAN culture and society, in particular the investigator's own, in search of UFO effects. 8) Thus a possible first step for the UFO investigator would be the study of HUMAN counterintelligence, in order to learn its methods and perhaps adopt some of them. One of the original Office of Strategic Services (OSS) sections was called "R&A" for "Research And Analysis," something any UFO investigator can do, time and money notwithstanding. [7] Counterintelligence In The Human World In U.S. corporate and military circles, that is, from the economic, political and military heights of our society, it is obvious that there are enemies or opponents at large in the world who are active against their interests. For this reason the elites of our economy and military use counterintelligence (CI) and spend tens of millions of dollars per year doing it. The goals of these programs are several and include determining who is in opposition to U.S. corporate and military interests and what those in opposition (both individuals and organizations) are doing in the way of anti-U.S. activity. The targeted individuals and organizations include both foreign AND domestic entities, the domestic targets including, at times, American citizens going about business lawful under the U.S. Constitution. That is, as has been shown over and over again in our history, the "interests" of those at the top of our society do not always coincide with the "interests" of those of us at other levels. All too often secrecy and compartmentalization of information have been used to cover what would later be found to be simple malfeasance or actual crimes, some of them harmful to thousands of U.S. citizens over many years. We live in a complicated world, one in which "white" is sometimes "black" and vice-versa. We ignore this fact at our peril, as we all should know by now. [8], [9] In addition, it is unfortunate but true that when "ordinary citizens" organize to effect changes in national policy the agents of our elites become very interested in that organization and sometimes use CI techniques against it. If the Watergate revelations revealed anything they revealed this. During the Cold War years the FBI, CIA or military intelligence (MI) had infiltrated nearly every "civilian" organization of importance in the United States, all a part of their "internal security" functions, though the CIA supposedly had none. [10] The post-Watergate era saw revelations of infiltration even of UFO organizations, the charges made by many in the field, including Raymond Fowler and Todd Zechel. [11], [12] So, how does U.S. counterintelligence go about its business? Well, the first step is information collection, both overt and covert, ("research"). Then, once this information has suggested a plan ("analysis"), investigators, infiltrators and even "agents provocateurs" are placed so as to gather truly important information ("operations"). All of this requires a large staff, and as was stated above, costs a great deal of money, especially when powerful opponents are involved. And that money is spent in some very interesting places, to say the least. [13] In the world of counterintelligence the tools of science and technology are very important but the scientific method is not the ideal analytical tool. This is so even though those involved in counterintelligence know and understand that top-flight science and high technology have a great deal to do with who wins and who loses, and are absolutely necessary. But human counterintelligence operatives do not use the strict scientific method and the strict scientific definitions of evidence and proof. If they did they would never "prove" anything and their organizations would be vulnerable to their enemies and opponents and soon be overrun by them. Human counterintelligence operatives know that objectivity is never going to truly exist for them and that they are going to have to act on incomplete and even conflicting information. This is true because no matter how much money and effort is expended the human world is sufficiently complicated that certainty is rarely even approximated. Counterintelligence And Its Problems In any human counterintelligence operation the keys are in people, the people in your operation and the people in your opponent's organization. In the final analysis you have to know whose side everyone is on and if you don't know that then you are in very serious trouble. Thus, in counterintelligence programs everyone is vetted, checked out, tested, and more than once. No one can be truly trusted until nearly everything is known about them, at least everything considered of importance. In spite of today's high-tech toys, those who "know" understand that it is only through thorough knowledge of people that true security is obtained. We will be coming back to this very important point later in this paper. Because of this "oppositional" element in counterintelligence things are done that would be anathema to science. For instance, if a serious threat is seen, even from American citizens going about their lawful business, U.S. counterintelligence has in the past infiltrated agents into suspect groups, and, believe it or not, even into U.S. counterintelligence itself! This is so because the counterintelligence agency must determine the ultimate loyalty of all the people involved, or at least as many of them as possible. And it is true in spite of the fact that the use of counter-intelligence (CI) in this way can lead to problems, some of them revolving around morale in your own organization (as it becomes suspected that agents exist within it) and other problems having to do with the reliability of information returned by your own agents in other organizations. The world of CI can become a hall of mirrors where solid information can become very scarce indeed, in part due to the presence of the many agents planted up and down the organizations of all the players, by all the other players, including, of course, yourself! [14] Now, what does all of this have to do with the UFO? Well, it has a lot to do with it, once you accept that there is another intelligence here on Earth with us. At the moment you accept this you should become, whether you like it or not, a counter-intelligence agent attempting to discover what the UFO is and what it is doing on Earth. And you have to consider that this "UFO agency" is very powerful in a mysterious way, and here for an important purpose, a purpose that more than likely will have an impact on human beings! Now perhaps my readers are starting to see why the UFO is such a problem for "the authorities" and their counterintelligence apparatus. They are used to knowing what is going on in the world, used to doing what they like much of the time. And they are used to knowing that they are, in many ways, the ultimate source of authority and power on Earth. It should be obvious that they are not going to be eager to reveal a different situation to the public at large, especially should that situation include a mysterious "UFO." Yes, indeed, the UFO presents huge problems for the security apparatus of any nation or national-level institution. These exist in the main to protect the economic, political and social status quo, and the UFO could be a serious threat to social, economic and military stability of both U.S. and world society. Put yourself in the position of a human CI officer. How much truly solid, reliable information can be gotten on this other intelligence and what it is doing? Maybe NONE if this other intelligence is superior to you and to humans in general, which it could likely be! What if IT is in charge of "knowing," not you? These are not possibilities that make for sound sleep among security personnel like yourself. And, of course, you are NOT going to be able to infiltrate agents into the UFO organization so as to get better information, are you? No, even with all the money and staff you have available this is impossible! On the other hand, this other intelligence MAY, under certain circumstances, be able to place its agents into YOUR organization, might it not, especially if it had initiated "contact" with human beings, particular human beings, human beings who might have dealings with counterintelligence? Here, if you dared to think about it, were security problems of awesome difficulty. That is, what if the UFO agency was using the same techniques that YOU have always used! How could such a program be detected and defeated? [15] Thus we see that our human limitations mean that we in counterintelligence must deal primarily with other human beings, not directly with the "others," should they exist. That is, we must deal in the main with the people involved: the people experiencing UFOs, the people investigating UFOs and the people who oppose and support the various aspects of the UFO. Until we understand who a significant number of these people are, what their backgrounds are and something about they are doing, we actually know very little about what is going on, either at the human or UFO end of things. It is a fact that for human beings in 1997 the UFO comes to us with a human face, nearly all the time, usually in the form of reports. Physical science, mechanistic and "objective" as it is, can be of little real help, conceptually speaking, in this arena. Thus a primary part of my research, as it must be for the institutional counterintelligence officer, is the human side of the UFO equation. And right away the world divides into camps, several of them, all requiring attention if a representative picture is to be obtained. And so it is not enough to investigate only the UFO reports and the people who make them. We also have to examine those who promulgate and maintain the strong resistance on the part of mainstream culture to the possible reality of the UFO. You see, for me, as a counter-intelligence agent without portfolio, I had to consider the possible effects of the "official" counterintelligence people. I had to look at ALL the players: the UFOs, the putative "opposition" (at all levels) as well as the witnesses and proponents of the UFO. And they all needed evaluation! After all, who could really tell who was who and what was what in this arena, given that human counterintelligence was likely involved? As I have indicated, would it be in the interests of the human counterintelligence agencies to clarify the situation for people like me, for private citizens investigating the UFO? No, it would not. I would be a problem for them, someone to be hindered or distracted, especially if I got onto something good. In the view of human counterintelligence, and for those who ultimately employ them, people like me have no "need to know" and will be told only what "authority" wants to reveal if and when "authority" wants to reveal it. [16] In my case, as a counterintelligence agent without official standing, I began to examine the opinion leaders and elite members of the scientific world and then the economic elite of our society at large, the actual employers of CI in our country. You see, it is an unfortunate fact that as a counterintelligence agent without portfolio I had numerous possible opponents, among them these "others," whomever they are, and the several power structures of my own culture, some of which seemed to stand in total opposition to the very idea of intelligently-controlled, unidentified flying objects (and/or occupants), purpose unknown. It thus became imperative to determine who some of those people were and what they had been doing from the heights of their social and economic positions. [17] There were some interesting questions to be answered in this area. For instance, was the "mainstream" position held in a solid block, across all important individuals and groups? Was it true that ALL elements our government and military elites were opposed to the idea of the "UFO," or were there elements on both sides of the issue? And what were they doing about those beliefs? Was there any reason to think that they might be dissembling, even lying, about their position vis-a-vis the UFO? No matter, I had to know more about the elites of my own culture: scientific, military, governmental and economic, because these elites were the source of the worldview that most of us carry around in our head. In the end, it was these folks who had the position, money and time to "do something" about the UFO, and about ME, should they come to believe that action was necessary. That is, it was they who were the chief users of human counter-intelligence. We should never forget that it is generally true that the ruling ideas are the ideas of the rulers, one way or another, and that the things they want to happen have an uncanny way of taking place. Notes To Part Two [6] For a very enlightening look at one scientist's view of the UFO and the scientific method see page 87 of the July, 1997, issue of the magazine ASTRONOMY. The scientist is Dr. James B. Kaler of the University of Illinois, who says, "Science depends on the repeatability of experiment or observation. The evidence for UFOs being alien spacecraft, however, is suspect and neither consistent nor repeatable." He then goes on to mention the Condon report as an example of how "scientists have examined the evidence in a variety of studies, and have accepted their findings." I need hardly say more. [7] See CLOAK & GOWN, Robin Winks, 1987, Wm. Morrow & Co., for details of the Research And Analysis section of the Office of Strategic Services. On page 449 begins a discussion of the work of Yale alum Sherman Kent, who used outside "R&A" in a scholarly way to enhance "strategic intelligence." [8] One might take a look at A NATION OF SHEEP, William Lederer, W.W. Norton & Co., 1961, for a revealing (and early) view of how our "intelligence community" operated overseas and kept the ugly secrets from the home folks through a cooperative national-level press, which reported "black" as "white" for many years. Chapter One of this book, entitled "The Laos Fraud," was especially instructive for me, a Vietnam veteran with an uncle who was nearly shot down over Laos in 1971. On page 30 we read, "And most immoral of all-the government and press have not been honest with us. Officials hid their mistakes and simultaneously claimed nonexistent successes." Thus it continues today. [9] Another interesting look at the seamy underside of American life is to be found in HARRY TRUMAN AND THE GREAT WAR SCARE OF 1948, Frank Kofsky, St. Martin's Press, 1993. Kofsky shows how the Cold War got rolling in part to keep the aircraft companies busy cutting metal, in leased plants, at profit rates exceeding 50-percent per annum on invested capital. But perhaps of even greater interest is a paragraph on page 174 reporting that Truman told New York TIMES reporter Arthur Krock, on April 7, 1948, that the United States was on the verge of an aviation breakthrough obviating the need of the proposed new air groups. Said the President, "We are on the verge of a discovery that will make obsolete everything now being manufactured." One might keep in mind the purported date of the Roswell vehicle recovery. [10] THE CIA AND THE CULT OF INTELLIGENCE, Victor Marchetti and John D. Marks, Alfred A. Knopf, 1974, contains an appendix called "The Bissell Philosophy," referring to Richard Bissell, former Deputy Director For Plans of CIA. The appendix consists of the minutes of a meeting held at Pratt House (headquarters of the Council on Foreign Relations) on January 8, 1968. On page 393 an attendee states that the CIA's "real" charter is still secret and that U.S. labor leaders, among them the head of the AFL-CIO, Walter Reuther, were in CIA's pay. Domestic security, indeed. [11] JUST CAUSE, January 1979, contains an article, "NI-CIA-AP or NICAP," outlining possible CIA infiltration of Keyhoe's group. Several top people in NICAP had associations with CIA, including, of course, former DCI Hillenkoetter. Immediately after several more had joined NICAP's board, including the former head of CIA's Psychological Warfare group, Colonel Joseph Bryan, NICAP began to die, going out of existence in the early 1970s. Much of this information is contained in ABOVE TOP SECRET, Timothy Good, William Morrow, 1987. See especially pages 346 to 349. [12] CASEBOOK OF A UFO INVESTIGATOR, Raymond Fowler, Prentice-Hall, 1981, pp. 55-67, has more information on CIA and "intelligence community" infiltration of UFO groups in the United States. See especially page 60 for a brief mention of former CIA briefing officer Karl Pflock, who was chairman of NICAP's Washington, D.C. group at the very end. [13] See AMERICA'S SECRET POWER, Loch K. Johnson, Oxford University Press, 1989. The author is a professor of political science at the University of Georgia and participated in the Church Committee hearings on the CIA in the middle 1970s. He goes into interesting detail on CIA use of academics around the world. See especially page 135 and the section entitled "Counter-intelligence Comes Home." [14] CLOAK & GOWN (see above) contains a chapter on James Jesus Angleton, the head of counterintelligence for CIA in the 1960s and 1970s. During the great "mole hunt" of the 1970s the "hall of mirrors" effect reached its apogee inside the agency. See pages 409 to 438 for this story, along with information on the CIA mail-opening programs of the Cold War years, programs in which the agency opened hundreds of thousands of letters written by U.S. citizens going about their lawful business. [15] For an interesting look down a very dark rabbit hole indeed see Richard Condon's THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, Random House, 1959, a book with strange "UFO-related" references and odd connections to the Lear Letters of the late 1980s. See pages 181 to 190 of the Dell paperback edition for the strangest UFO-related sequence of all, in which Major Marco meets the "lady from the stars" and his wife-to-be. [16] INVISIBLE RESIDENTS, Ivan Sanderson, 1967, has a very fine introduction which outlines how "officialdom" will talk about flying saucers in the sky but the minute things come down to earth these same officials become very, very quiet. On page 9 Sanderson speaks about the "panic" among officials that can result from UFO activity. [17] See THE RICH AND THE SUPER RICH, Ferdinand Lundberg, Lyle Stewart, Inc., 1968, the follow-up to his 1937 book AMERICA'S SIXTY FAMILIES. In his 1968 book Lundberg writes at length of how the elite of our country make the nation's policy in their private clubs. See pages 282-290 for the details. See also Blum's OUT THERE (page 152) for imbedded references to secret UFO policy conversations in the exclusive Brook Club in New York. *** End -- Part Two of Four
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 New York Times Article on Govt UFO Lies From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 05:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:31:49 -0400 Subject: New York Times Article on Govt UFO Lies Dear List: Enclosed is an article from the New York Times documenting our beloved government's lies and cover ups about UFOs and certain UFO reports. It is similar to the Associated Press story. I assure you, this news is only the beginning. NOW, LET'S SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE CRITICIZE ME FOR POSTING THIS ARTICLE, (REBECCA, DON) AND FOR "TAKING CREDIT" FOR IT. Remember, it's NOT MY article, but the New York Times. I mention this specifically so Rebecca doesn't think I am trying to "take credit" for it or other such nonsense. The article and its' ramifications are extremely serious...if anyone reading this DOES NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS SO, THEN PLEASE GET OUT OF THE UFO FIELD. Article below. Thanks, Kal Korff ________________ C.I.A. Admits Government Lied About U.F.O. Sightings By WILLIAM J. BROAD In the darkest days of the Cold War, the military lied to the American public about the true nature of many unidentified flying objects in an effort to hide its growing fleets of spy planes, a CIA study says. The deceptions were made in the 1950s and '60s amid a wave of UFO sightings that alarmed the public and parts of official Washington. The CIA study says the Air Force knew that most reports by citizens and aviation experts were based on fleeting glimpses of U-2 and SR-71 spy planes, which fly extremely high. Those planes were developed in the 1950s and '60s to photograph enemy targets. From secret bases, mainly in California and Nevada, the aircraft repeatedly flew across the country and eventually overseas to bases in countries that included Britain, West Germany and Taiwan. While commercial airliners in the 1950s flew at altitudes of up to 30,000 feet, the U-2 soared to more than 60,000 feet and the SR-71 to more than 80,000 feet, or 15 miles, nearly the edge of space. The planes carried powerful cameras to spy on foreign military installations and sensitive electronic gear to capture radio and radar transmissions. The spy craft were developed by the intelligence agency and often flown by the Air Force. Rather than acknowledging the existence of the top-secret flights or saying nothing about them publicly, the Air Force decided to put out false cover stories, the CIA study says. For instance, unusual observations that were actually spy flights were attributed to atmospheric phenomena like ice crystals and temperature inversions. "Over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the 1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights" over the United States, the CIA study says. "This led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project." The study, "CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90," was written by Gerald K. Haines and appears in Studies of Intelligence, a secret CIA journal. Five years ago, the agency began releasing unclassified versions of the journal yearly. The 1997 edition, with the study on unidentified objects, is at http://www.odci. gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ on the World Wide Web. Mr. Haines is a historian at the National Reconnaissance Office, the intelligence agency that builds and runs the nation's spy satellites. The admission of Federal deception on the issue appears to be a first, experts said in interviews. "It's very significant," said Richard Hall, chairman of the Fund for UFO Research, a group in Washington. "Certainly they've lied about not having any interest in the subject. But I don't know of any other deception like this." John E. Pike, head of space policy at the Federation of American Scientists, also based in Washington, said the admission raised questions about other federal cover-ups involving UFOs. "The flying-saucer community is definitely onto something," in charging that the military is hiding something, Mr. Pike said. There are two schools of thought on the nature of such a cover-up. One, from Mr. Pike and other aerospace experts, holds that many sightings over the decades involved secret federal projects featuring advanced aircraft and reconnaissance missions. The new admission strengthens that view. The other school holds that the government has come into possession of extraterrestrial craft and beings and is hiding them from the public, partly to avoid causing panic. That view was celebrated last month on the 50th anniversary of an incident in Roswell, N.M., in which conspiracy theorists say a saucer crashed to Earth and was seized by the government. The deceptions about the spy flights were issued in some of the tensest days of the Cold War. The Soviet Union exploded its first hydrogen bomb in 1955, the year that the U-2 flew for the first time. In 1960, a U-2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, leading to the cancellation of an East-West peace conference. In 1962, a U-2 spotted a buildup of Soviet nuclear arms in Cuba, precipitating the diplomatic crisis regarded by some experts as the closest the superpowers came to nuclear war. To make the spy planes harder to see and less likely to prompt UFO reports, they were eventually painted black. The CIA study said U-2's initially had silver bodies "and reflected the rays from the sun, especially at sunrise and sunset." The report added that "they often appeared as fiery objects to observers below." But the SR-71, which first flew in 1964, was apparently painted black from the start. Its nickname was the Blackbird.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 08:05:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:34:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations >>From: RSchatte@aol.com >>Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 22:52:17 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations >>Subj: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations >>Date: 97-08-02 22:37:37 EDT >>From: AOL News >>BCC: RSchatte >>.c The Associated Press >> WASHINGTON (AP) - With growing hysteria over alleged UFO >>sightings in the 1950s, the Air Force repeatedly concocted false >>cover stories to hide the fact that their super-secret spy planes >>had been spotted, an intelligence study says. >> Historian Gerald K. Haines writes that the Air Force, responding >>to alleged UFO sightings during the Cold War years, frequently >>provided explanations that were untrue to deflect attention away >>from the spy planes. Anyone interested in seeing the entire article by Haines can go to: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html There are a few other interesting tidbits of information at this site that some may find interesting, so you might want to look around this site for a while. Don Berliner pointed out this article to me in April or May, and indicated that he wrote a rebuttle that called many of Haine's conclusions into question. Berliner said the statistics don't exactly support the contention, in that there were often fewer "UFO" sightings after flights involving the U-2.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations From: meccam@erols.com Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 08:29:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:36:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations > From: RSchatte@aol.com > Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 22:52:17 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations > Subj: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations > Date: 97-08-02 22:37:37 EDT > From: AOL News > BCC: RSchatte > .c The Associated Press > > WASHINGTON (AP) - With growing hysteria over alleged UFO > sightings in the 1950s, the Air Force repeatedly concocted false > cover stories to hide the fact that their super-secret spy planes > had been spotted, an intelligence study says. > Concern about the public finding out about the secret spy planes > ``led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to > the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an > extraordinarily sensitive national security project,'' Haines > wrote. > Haines, a historian at the National Reconnaissance Office, based > his article on a review of CIA documents from the late 1940s to > 1990. > He described how the Air Force sought to deflect attention from > the development of its high-altitude experimental aircraft, the U-2 > and the SR-71. > The early U-2s were silver and reflected the sun's rays, > especially at sunrise and sunset, and often appeared as fiery > objects to people below, Haines said. The U-2s were later painted > black. But the SR-71 is known as the "Blackbird" and to my knowledge was always black. Saw one refueling in the air while on a commerical airliner and it was large, dark as a dungeon, and had prominent wings and a prominent tail. Shape far, far away from a sphere, disc, or hockey puck! What will the AF think of next? Melanie >
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Aug 97 09:09:02 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:40:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:05:17 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Phoenix Lights & Flares >I am still researching this, and YES Rebecca, I HAVE talked to witnesses and >other "experts". The only person who WON'T talk to me is Dilettoso, in fact >he has threatened KFYI in Phoenix with a LAWSUIT if they put me on the air >next week to discuss and expose Jim Dilettoso and his phony "PhD," etc. >The station's lawyers sent Dilettoso a letter giving him until August 10, >1997 to respond to them, and produce his "PhD" from McGill University which >Dilettoso has claimed he earned. Of course, as I exposed and show via a FAX >from McGill University in my book "Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy >Meier Story", (Page 350) Dilettoso is LYING about this and as the university >CONFIRMED, he never earned a PhD from them nor was he ever awarded one. >As my book proves, this is just one of MANY FALSE CLAIMS (fraudulent, >actually, since they are not simple "mistakes") that Dilettoso makes. In >fact, starting tonight on Phoenix station KXAM on the Payton Erskin Show, the >very FIRST of a LONG SERIES of EXPOSES on Jim Dilettoso will start airing. If >anyone wants tapes of these, email me and I can get you the station's >address. Kal, At last something we can agree on. When I first came into this field I started hearing the name Dilettoso tossed around as a photographic expert. I thought it was odd that if this guy was really a photographic expert, no one in the photographic community had ever heard of him. I asked around and got the same blank stares everywhere. Whether he has any real credentials, I do not know, and don't really care. I know a lot of people with legitimate PhDs who have no common sense. I agree, however, that one should not claim credentials one does not have. I've been asked by some people who have had dealings with Dilettoso to have a look at his "analyses". I've seen scant sign of any real understanding of photographic analysis, and lots of signs of rather meaningless tinkering with common computer software apps. I don't know Dilettoso, have never spoken with him or exchanged messages, but I am very skeptical that he knows anything about photographic analysis. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Aug 97 09:55:13 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 10:09:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 21:39:27 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >"What happened was... two gentlemen came into my office and they asked >someone to look at a piece of film they have in a 16mm film can. One >of the old Kodak film cans that are very common". >"I told them that I couldn't do a scientific investigation but that >I could look at the edge print". >"It was a print that I saw. It was black and white 16mm and I remember >it as being a print film. But it was a very quick... it was not a >thorough investigation". >"I just looked at it for maybe 30 seconds. It was very quick". >"I didn't really look at the image area. I never looked at what the >images were". James,. Doesn't the phrase "I never looked at what the images were." not imply that there WERE images on the film? The interview with Cate that I referred to will be published shortly, and then all can make up their minds about what he did and did not say. >Privately, I offered Ray the opportunity to disclose, in complete >confidence, the name of the "facilities house"..... Ah, yes. But we all know how you treat information given to you in "complete confidence", now don't we?????? <VBEG> In complete confidence I had suggested to Ray that he not trust you with any information of a confidential nature. >It's appreciated that you are under no obligation to follow this up >and it would perhaps be somewhat "awkward" in view of your >acknowledged personal stake. And what might that "personal stake" be, pray tell? A book that no one will publish??? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 10:21:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 10:21:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 10:13:37 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Picture of UFO from Ringold, Georgia >Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 03:15:28 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> [Sue Kovios] >Subject: Picture of UFO from Ringgold, Georgia by Lee Cross >http://www.artbell.com/ufos3.html >UFO spotted on June 4th, 1997 in Ringgold Georgia by Lee >Cross. Actual photo scanned for the web by Art Bell. >'A genius is somebody who was a crackpot until his ideas caught on.' >At the end of all our searching, we will arrive at the beginning >and know the place for the first time. >UFO spotted on June 4th, 1997 in Ringgold Georgia by Lee >Cross. Actual photo scanned for the web by Art Bell. =========================================================================== Hi Errol, hi All, By gum I think we may have another match! I have included a single frame capture from a video shot in Ecuador in 1995 (at night) of a craft that looks strikingly similar to this new (daylight) photo from Georgia.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares From: JD <gilgamesh@cyberconnect.com> [Jason DeGraf] Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 09:53:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 22:40:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:05:17 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Phoenix Lights & Flares >Dear List: >Very Briefly, because I will be leaving shortly on travel, a number of you >have asked me about how the flares over Phoenix can "hover" in the air, >others have asked me to send them images from the video showing the smoke, >etc. Here are some answers for you all. >1) These flares, have a Mark 45 output of 840 watt/sec, and emit 1,800,000 >candlelight power and are visible from as far away as 50 to 70 miles. When >ignited, they emit lots of heat. This HEAT then WARMS UP the air ABOVE the >flare, and the resulting warmer air stays "trapped" if you will inside the >bubble of the deployed parachute. Because the parachute is a hollow half >sphere or dome, a nice pocket of hot air keeps the flair hovering like a hot >air balloon, until the heat source, which is the flare, extinguishes itself. 'These Flares'?, name of flare please. Then as these parachute flares lose the heat, as they fade away, the flare should fall at an ever increasing rate towards the ground. The videos don't show that. Like you say this is basic physics. >2) I now have video footage of these SAME series of military flares as a >control and when you look at this footage the flares are identical. No, if anything you have a video of flares shot somewhere else at another time. And your video will not show a linear formation, nor whatever formation your video has, will that formation maintain a consistent pattern, such as on March 13th. Your video will show drifting and not a shred of pattern. >As my book proves, this is just one of MANY FALSE CLAIMS (fraudulent, >actually, since they are not simple "mistakes") that Dilettoso makes. In >fact, starting tonight on Phoenix station KXAM on the Payton Erskin Show, the >very FIRST of a LONG SERIES of EXPOSES on Jim Dilettoso will start airing. If >anyone wants tapes of these, email me and I can get you the station's >address. Ohhh, Erksin, buddy buddy with Jim, till HardCopy came by and refused to interview him. So now Jim is a liar. And his on air comments about Jim were about as good as Howard Stern lashing out at Kathy Lee Gifford for selling children made clothes at Wal-Mart. So now he is pals with old, and lying, Richard Motzer, field investigator trainee for MUFON, who claims the flares were at 8900ft, which is hardly the case. But you Kal are buddies with Dick Motzer, so I'm sure you won't look at his credentials.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Phoenix Lights and Flares From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 11:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 22:44:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights and Flares From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 03:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:24:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights and Flares >>and I look forward to your APOLOGY<< Don't hold your breath. Just show us the smoke, Kal. and from a later email: > I do NOT AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE EARLIER > SIGHTINGS THAT night were caused by flares. I don't either. Never did. Just the 10:00 pm event. Never said anything else. > JUST HOW, REBECCA, AND WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THAT > I AM TRYING TO "TAKE CREDIT FOR EVERYTHING?" I've read your postings here on this list. I heard you with Jeff Rense. I rest my case. > However, because some of these people can't get access to some of the media > outlets I can, I am helping them. Care to share the names of these "various people and damned good investigators?" > Also, until we finish our report and other activities now is NOT > the proper time to release information as it would be PREMATURE. > Our investigation is STILL CONTINUING, but winding down. If it's premature, why have you been breathlessly reporting on the radio and on the list, Kal? Perhaps that was premature for that too. > So what's your "problem", Rebecca? Are you jealous or something? The only problem is that you come on here, extoling your virtues and deeds and provide very few answers. Jealous? Hardly. You don't know me at all, if you think that. > As I said in another post, if you had bothered listening to KXAM in > Phoenix over the past 5 WEEKS you would > be more properly informed. Instead, you are making a > VERY PUBLIC FOOL out of yourself in this forum. If I were in Phoenix, I'm sure I'd be listening to KXAM. As for me being a "VERY PUBLIC FOOL," well, that doesn't bother me one bit either. Besides, it takes one to know one. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:40:16 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 22:45:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:05:17 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Phoenix Lights & Flares >1) These flares, have a Mark 45 output of 840 watt/sec, and emit 1,800,000 >candlelight power and are visible from as far away as 50 to 70 miles. When >ignited, they emit lots of heat. This HEAT then WARMS UP the air ABOVE the >flare, and the resulting warmer air stays "trapped" if you will inside the >bubble of the deployed parachute. Because the parachute is a hollow half >sphere or dome, a nice pocket of hot air keeps the flair hovering like a hot >air balloon, until the heat source, which is the flare, extinguishes itself. >This is basic physics, but might be "news" to any of you who have never >launched hot air devices before or balloons like I and others have during >experiments (and in my case, recreating and showing how Meier faked his "UFO" >pictures and recent balloon footage I shot for FOX). That's typical debunking bullshit! Give us a break, Kal. Tell your AF and CIA stringmasters this explanation is insulting, just like their stupid ass Roswell dummies and their U-2/SR-71 lies. Roger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:00:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 22:47:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >>Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 21:39:27 -0400 >>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Dear James, >>I suggested that you don't actually know if there were any images on >>that piece of film, or why Chris Cary was in Hollywood with a supposed >>reel of "alien autopsy" footage. I have seen you make this same statement a couple of times now. Who says Chris Cary was in Hollywood with a reel of autopsy film? As you know I interviewed Cate just a few weeks ago by telephone. He said nothing about Chris Cary. Cate did state that a reel of old 16mm film was brought in, in an old film canister, and that he unrolled some to check the edge codes but didn't look at the image. At the time, he didn't think it was necessary to look at the image, but only to try to give a date for the edge codes. I also asked him about the story that has been circulated that only blank film, or film leader was ever taken to Kodak. He remarked that no one had asked him what was brought in. All they ever asked was what the image was and he did not know. Somehow, the rumour-net changed that to "it was blank film". Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: New York Times Article on Govt UFO Lies From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 12:30:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 22:50:07 -0400 Subject: Re: New York Times Article on Govt UFO Lies At 09:31 AM 08/03/97 -0400, Kal The Magnificient screamed: >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 05:11:46 -0400 (EDT) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: New York Times Article on Govt UFO Lies >Dear List: >Enclosed is an article from the New York Times documenting our beloved >government's lies and cover ups about UFOs and certain UFO reports. It is >similar to the Associated Press story. I assure you, this news is only the >beginning. >NOW, LET'S SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE CRITICIZE ME FOR POSTING THIS ARTICLE, >(REBECCA, DON) AND FOR "TAKING CREDIT" FOR IT. Remember, it's NOT MY article, >but the New York Times. I mention this specifically so Rebecca doesn't think >I am trying to "take credit" for it or other such nonsense. It was in the newspaper this morning and I already had fired up my OCR stuff just in case no one caught it, however the article was already posted by Rebecca and EBK posted the 4 parter of the fuller article by Haines. And now you just posted it again. I guess we have it pretty well covered now. The article speaks for itself. Can anyone believe anything the CIA or the Federal Government says? Yep, we all believed the "Roswell dummies" explanation. Not! I can't and won't speak for Rebecca, but my only concern here with you is getting you to document and support your statements. I tried being "patient" and "nice" with you but you just shined me and others on past issues. You left me a nice note in email some months back, but never followed through on posting the rebuttal of Billy Meier. After that note, I never bothered or harangued you. I mistakenly thought you would follow through. You didn't. It appears to me, that you're good at PR but not on actually delivering substance. I'm here to keep you book-writing "experts" honest. If you post claims, expect me to ask you hard and direct questions about it. If you state that Art Bell tried to keep you off radio stations, please post checkable documentation to support that contention and back it up. If THAT is true, it's very disturbing and I'll raise a ruckus about it elsewhere. You claimed that you have witnessess to these flares. Did they also see parachutes? Does anyone have solid proof of the flight plan of the A-10's that coincide with the 10 pm time? I will concede the point about the flares producing enough heat to keep the parachutes up (yes, Dennis I DO think that *is* the idea) but how is it possible that the parachute flares are able to remain in a particular spot for (x=20 minutes) ? Wouldn't wind drift make that difficult? How is it possible that smoke was able to be seen at 10 pm? And lastly, I'm so glad I'm not in _your_ shoes when Rebecca reads your posts to her. :-) Don I'm still waiting on YOU to document YOUR claims that Art Bell "conspired" to keep YOU off radio. Back it up mister. You mentioned witnessess to these flares. Were actual parachutes found?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 31 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 23:01:14 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 31 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 31 August 3, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor PATHFINDER PHOTO SHOWS HOVERING UFO ON MARS Early Saturday morning, July 26, 1997, during an interview on the Art Bell Show, ufologist Richard C. Hoagland called listeners' attention to a Pathfinder color photo (Number 81977) at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory website. Hoagland reportedly told listeners that features on the southwest horizon of the huge Martian floodplain, Ares Vallis, resembled artificial structures. Hours later, at 9:30 a.m., Desiree Holloway, who had heard the Bell broadcast, downloaded Pathfinder photo #81977 from Sun Microsystems, a "mirror" of the original site. Doing so, she uncovered a mystery. The photo was a high-resolution shot of the horizon to the right of Twin Peaks, showing a low, rounded mound, much darker than the surrounding terrain, and what looked like a UFO hovering above and to the right of the mound. "I noticed it after I had downloaded the photo from the CNN mirror site," Ms. Holloway explained. "I had listened to the Art Bell Show and decided to check it out." "Upon viewing the photo, I did not agree with Richard Hoagland's findings but studied the picture further and noticed a small circular object just above the right side of the hill and near the top of the photo." Ms. Holloway described the UFO as "a small round sphere that appears in the upper right side of the photo. It does not appear to be a photographic anomaly (in my opinion). It seems to be shadowed in correspondence with the Martian landscape below." The mound is located an estimated one mile (1.6 kilometers) southwest of Pathfinder. Returning to the Sun Microsystems site, she found something strange. The original high-resolution photo she'd downloaded had been replaced with a grainy, out-of-focus, low-resolution image of the same horizon. Now even the mound was no longer clearly visible. On Friday, August 1, 1997, she contacted UFO ROUNDUP and reported, "You might find it interesting to know that" she returned to the Sun Microsystems site and "their photo is now distorted. The one I copied has been replaced by a grainy, low-quality image. I cannot find a clear version anywhere on the Web." On Saturday, August 2, 1997, Ms. Holloway was contacted via email by a man who claimed to have downloaded the supposed "original image" from the JPL website before Pathfinder photo #81997 vanished from the site. Apparently, an unknown number of people downloaded the clear image between 12:15 a.m., the time of the Art Bell broadcast, and 9:30 a.m., when Ms. Holloway copied hers. (Email Interview) (Editor's Comment: Yesterday I contacted a local photographer and asked him if a grainy, low-resolution photo could be "sharpened" via computer into a clear, high-resolution image. "Joe," he told me, "when you copy fuzz, you get fuzz." He insisted that there had to be a high-resolution image to start with. However, when I asked if a computer hacker could forge or fabricate a false Pathfinder photo, using the grainy one as a model, he said he didn't know enough about computers to answer that question. Perhaps one of our computer-savvy ROUNDUP readers can help...?) MARS: THE NINEVEH CONNECTION On Thursday, July 24, 1997, the weekly Arabic newspaper Al-Thawri reported that three men in San'a, Yemen had filed a lawsuit against NASA, claiming ownership of the planet Mars. The plaintiffs--Adam Ismail, Mustafa Khalil, and Abdullah al-Umari, all of San'a--demanded that NASA cease all on-planet operations of Pathfinder and the Sojourner robot vehicle until the Yemeni court renders a verdict. They also requested a court injunction that would prevent NASA from disclosing any information about Mars's gravity, atmosphere or weather. Al-Thawri reported the men as saying, "We inherited the planet from our ancestors 3,000 years ago. Sojourner and Pathfinder began exploring it without informing us or seeking our approval." Curiously enough, their claim actually might have some validity. Some scholars believe that San'a was founded as a trading outpost of the long-dead empire of Nineveh back in 720 B.C. According to Italian ufologist Alberto Fenoglio, "In excavations in Nineveh there was discovered in the library of King Assurbanipal clay cylinders on which is described a voyage to the sky. It narrates how King Eitan, who lived about 5,000 years ago, called 'The Good King,' was taken as an honoured guest on a flying ship in the form of a shield (i.e. circular--J.T.), which landed in a square behind the royal palace, rotating, surrounded by a vortex of flames." "From the flying ship alighted tall, blond men with dark complexions dressed in white, handsome as gods, who invited King Eitan, somewhat dissuaded by his own advisers, to go for a trip in the flying ship." "In the middle of a whirlwind of flames, he went so high that the Earth with its seas, islands, continents, appeared to him as 'a loaf in a basket.' Then it disappeared from sight." "King Eitan in the flying ship reached the Moon, Mars, Venus, and after two weeks' absence, when they were already preparing a new succession to the throne, believing that the gods had carried him off with them, the flying ship glided over the city (Nineveh) and touched down surrounded by a ring of fire. The fire abated, and King Eitan descended with some of the blond men who stayed as his guests for several days." The ruins of Nineveh are 16 kilometers (10 miles) northeast of the city of Al-Mawsul (Mosul) in northern Iraq. (See the New York Daily News for July 25, 1997. See also GODS AND SPACEMEN IN THE ANCIENT EAST by W. Raymond Drake, Signet Books, New American Library, New York, N.Y. 1973, page 180) UFO SIGHTED SOUTHEAST OF INDIANAPOLIS A UFO was sighted Friday night, August 1, 1997, on a farm near New Palestine, Indiana (population 749), approximately 12 miles (19 kilometers) southeast of Indianapolis. According to eyewitness Lea L., "I was sitting on my patio, appreciating the wonderful weather and, of course, watching the sky. This light in the sky appeared in the south just above the tree line. There is a woods approximately 1,000 feet (333 meters) behind my house. This light looked like a star and was about the same brightness and size as Venus, which was also visible in the west. The strange thing about this was the speed at which it was moving. It traversed the entire sky in about a minute and a half, from south to northeast. I thought at first it might have been a jet, but it was traveling too fast for a jet at that height. Also there were no flashing lights like planes usually have. The speed was constant and it moved in a straight line. I got up and stayed up until I could no longer see it." (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for this news story.) ANOTHER UFO IN EAST TEXAS The evening of Friday, July 25, 1997, Cliff S. and his young son were in their pickup truck "going west on Farm Road 1488" in eastern Texas when they saw something unusual in the sky. In their farm county, Cliff explained, they're used to seeing air traffic traveling between Dallas and Houston in a north-south direction. So when a strange object appeared in the western sky, he took notice. They saw "two bright beams, a blinking red in between...rather unusual in the way it was going... But it seemed to hang in the sky and not move, so we watched it for a while." "I reached back and got my binoculars (which) I'd left in the truck since the (Hale-Bopp) comet, and pulled over," he reported. "I looked at it. It was about the size of an airliner, but much closer...I could see a faint gleam of a cockpit in the middle, with window panes. I was having a weird feeling, such as I remember having as a kid whenever I'd seen unusual things in the sky." Cliff's son took the binoculars and confirmed the sighting. Then Cliff watched and "now that I realized that they were very close, I couldn't hear any sound. I turned off the truck engine to hear better, and we both got out. It was just overhead, but the only sound around it was like its wings cutting through the air." "Directly overhead...we couldn't see the outline, but it seemed triangular. It was black or dark. No red lights visible from below. A pair of white lights close together, side by side...then another pair behind it, less bright, then another pair, bright again, at the rear. They also had two bright white spotlights at the tip of each wing. It seemed to be following our (farm) road to the east, and would slowly bank to one side, then to the other." (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for this news story.) POLICEMAN SPIES A UFO IN CENTRAL ROMANIA On Sunday evening, July 27, 1997, assistant police chief Ion Moldoveanu, while on patrol near the Aricestii Rahtivani collective farm in Nevelea, spotted a UFO. Moldoveanu described the UFO as "a light object with a spherical shape." As he watched it, the UFO "changed its direction of rotation" and "cast a cone of light over the village." The event was also witnessed by motorists on the Calinesti, Filipesti de Padure and Floresti roads just outside the village. The motorists reported "the sudden appearance of a light" in the sky over the village. Nevelea is in the Prahova district, not far from the city of Ploesti, about 100 kilometers (60 miles) north of Bucharest, the national capital. (Many thanks to Madliu Valentin and Errol Bruce-Knapp for this story.) UK AGENCY CHANGES STORY IN SKEGNESS UFO CASE On Thursday, July 31, 1997, at 11:30 a.m., radio station MOR in Manchester, England broadcast some startling news. According to MOR, the UK's Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) at Cheltenham "confirmed that they were called to monitor 'unknown objects' operating over East Anglia" last autumn. On October 5, 1996, two UFOs were seen and tracked for several hours over Skegness and offshore by local and Boston police, the Coastguards at Great Yarmouth and RAF Neatishead. The Ministry of Defence later suggested that the UFOs had been radar echoes of the cathedral spire in Boston, the so-called "Boston Stump." Originally, at the time of the sighting, GCHQ had denied involvement in the case, claiming that the event had "no defence significance." (Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp for this story.) LASER BEAM STRIKES CALIFORNIA JETLINER On Monday, July 14, 1997, at 7:38 p.m., United Airlines Flight 2327 took off from San Francisco for a short flight downstate to Ontario, California (population 88,820). The aircraft, a Boeing 737-500 (registration number N956UA) carried 133 passengers and crew. At 8:43 p.m., United Airlines Flight 2327 began its final approach, flying at 5,000 feet (1,515 meters) about 5 miles (8 kilometers) from the airport. The plane made ready to land on Runway 26R. Just then, a United pilot, riding in the jump seat, noticed "a red light sweeping back and forth in the cockpit. The light oscillated four or five times, then disappeared." A few seconds later, the red laser light returned for five seconds. "It appeared that the red light was tracking the airliner." The light faded again as the Boeing 737-500 came within 1.5 miles (3 kilometers) of the airport's outer marker. There were no reports of injuries to the passengers. The case is being investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department. (Many thanks to Kenneth Young of T.A.S.K. for sending us this story.) BIGFOOT SIGHTED AT EAST END OF YELLOWSTONE PARK On Thursday afternoon, July 24, 1997, the Zumwalt family was driving out of Yellowstone National Park in northwestern Wyoming when they saw something very strange. "As we were driving out of the park...I was looking up at the mountain to see if I could spot Bighorn sheep, as we had the Grizzly (bear) and many other Yellowstone animals while driving the Loop," Amy Zumwalt reported. "I immediately noticed it on the side of a mountain near the top a large triangular patch of snow and saw it (Bigfoot) walking in large strides--a tall, 8-or-9 foot, hairy, upright, Bigfoot-like animal. It was so tall that you couldn't help but not see it. Then it made three strides across the rocky terrain and stopped just above a green grassy-like area (alpine meadow--J.T.)" (Many thanks to Matt Moneymaker for forwarding this story.) (Editor's Comment: This is definitely Strange Hominids Week at UFO ROUNDUP, gang. Keep reading...) SKUNK APES SEEN AT TWO SITES IN FLORIDA The Skunk Ape, a species of Bigfoot native to the state of Florida, was seen at two different locales last week. The first sighting was reported in Ochopee, Florida, a town bordering the Everglades approximately 70 miles (112 kilometers) west of Miami. According to the Miami Herald, "Vince Doerr, chief of the Ochopee Fire Central District, saw a strange creature cross Burns Road near his house last Monday evening (July 21, 1997). 'I was riding along when 800 feet ahead of me, a brown-looking tall thing ran across the road,' Doerr said. 'It wasn't a bear, that's for sure. It ran into the woods.'" A couple of days later, a group of six British tourists and their guide were astounded at the sight of a Skunk Ape described as "seven feet tall, flat-faced, broad- shouldered, covered with long brown hair or fur and reeking of skunk." The incident took place on Turner River Road, north of Ochopee, in "a slough covered with bald cypress trees laden with Spanish moss and spidery air plants." "Don Rowland, 54, a guide for Everglades Day Safaris, said he was hauling his British tourists up Turner River Road last week when he spotted the apeman loping along the cypress trees at the west end of the road, about two miles north of the Tamiami Trail." "'It was about six feet tall with brown, long fur,' Rowland said, 'It loped along like a big monkey or a gorilla, when it disappeared into the woods.'" "'There was a sighting by the Naples Trolley Tour out of Marco Island,' Rowland said. 'That driver was really shook up.'" (See the Miami Herald for July 28, 1997, "Mysterious 'Ape' Raising a Big Stink.") Another Skunk Ape was sighted near Lynne, Florida in the Ocala State Forest on Friday, July 25, 1997, at 3:30 p.m. Lynne is 55 miles (88 kilometers) west of Daytona Beach and 14 miles (21 kilometers) east of Ocala, in northern Florida. The Blair family was camping at Half Moon Lake in the state forest, just north of Highway 40. According to eyewitness Brian Blair, "My family and I were hiking on a nature walk when we walked across a small bridge over a stream. We stopped to rest, and I allowed my two sons to go explore. A few minutes later, they returned, panicking, and told me there was a gorilla. So I went to go check it out. When we got to where they led us, there was a Bigfoot kneeling next to the stream, drinking. It noticed me standing there and ran off into the forest." (Many thanks to Matt Moneymaker and Scott McNabb for forwarding this report.) (Editor's Note: The Ocala National Forest has long been a haunt of the Skunk Ape. In 1980, large footprints, complete with toes, were discovered in the area. The Sheriff's Department estimated that the creature was 10 to 12 feet tall and weighed 1,000 lbs. See ATLAS OF THE MYSTERIOUS IN NORTH AMERICA by Rosemary Ellen Guiley, Facts on File, Inc., New York, N.Y. 1995, page 155.) CHUPACABRAS RUN WILD IN SOUTHERN BRAZIL Chupacabra seems to have found a home in Brazil. During the past month, there have been dozens of sightings in the rural districts of the states of Minas Gerais (M.G.) , Sao Paulo (S.P.) and Parana. During the week of July 25, many dead animals were discovered in Betim and Nova Contagem in Minas Gerais under "circumstances that are extremely mysterious and defy the investigators." On Saturday night, July 26, 1997, a farmer in Nova Contagem reported that he'd entered his chicken house and found every one of the fowl lying dead. The same night, in Betim, M.G., rancher Leandro Amador found dead goats on his property. All had been killed with a blow to the maxillary bone, and all had a distinguishing mark on the ear. Amador told the Brazilian newspaper O Estado de Minas, "The whole situation is unreal." Also in Betim, farm worker Tolentino Antonio de Oliveira telephoned his "patrao" (boss) that night and reported find a goat dead and drained of blood. The animal had strange marks on its ears, and several bones were broken. Ricardo Cicarelli, owner of eight goats, was the first victim of the current flap. He told the newspaper, "no explanation was made so as not to alarm the populace." He added, "I am preparing to slay the beast." Meanwhile, in the state of Sao Paulo, the month of July ended with a host of animal deaths attributed to the Chupacabra. According to the newspaper Correio Braziliense of Brasilia, D.F., 21 ducks, 20 chickens and 12 other fowl were killed in Baixada Santista, S.P. The first attack in July occurred at Praia Grande in Sao Paulo state, followed by a second at Jardim Mulvi, S.P. during the week of July 14. Five days later, another reputed Chupacabra attack took place in Caroara, a barrio of Bertioga, S.P. Curiously enough, all of the attacks took place in barns or sheds or pens that were securely locked. In Praia Grande, 10 ducks were killed. Another 11 were killed in Bertioga. According to veterinarian Dr. Ines Matsumoto of the Mascote Clinic, the ducks all died of internal hemorrhaging, which was caused by extensive squeezing. On July 20, there was an attack on 20 chickens at a home in Iriri, another barrio of Bertioga. Dr. Matsumoto told the newspaper that the injuries sustained by the fowl are inconsistent with wounds inflicted by jaguars and other felines. The Jardim Mulvi case is being investigated by Wallacy Albino of the Grupo Ufologico de Guaraju (GUG). On Sunday, July 27, 1997, in Minas Gerais state, Sr. Amador was interviewed by a team from the Centro de Investigacao Civil de Objetos Aereos Nao-Identificados (CICOANI). The group arranged for animal cadavers to be sent to Belo Horizonte, the state capital, for lab tests. (See the newspapers O Estado de Minas for July 29, 1997 and Correio Braziliense for July 31, 1997.) from the UFO Files... 1909: AIRSHIP FLIES OVER DUNEDIN, NEW ZEALAND (This week, we continue our look at New Zealand's "airship invasion" of July 1909. Many thanks to N.Z. ufologist Murray Bott for making these old news stories available.) "On July 28, (1909) an airship apparently came down over the city of Dunedin (on New Zealand's South Island-- J.T.). A resident in the North Eastern Valley reported that he was awakened in the early hours by a peculiar noise which he took to be an earthquake." "'I was awakened by a horrible noise at about two o'clock this morning,' he told a reporter. 'The noise was like a ship dragging her anchor up or a windlass of a steamer with dry-gear wheels working. I got up and went round to the front and I saw something floating up past Knox College. It was a great black thing with a searchlight attached.'" (See the Dunedin, N.Z. Star for July 28, 1909., page 1) FUN UFO WEBSITES For more information on strange hominid creatures, try the Global Bigfoot Encyclopedia and International Sighting Database. Scott McNabb has plenty of interesting stories at this site, which can be reached at http://www.planetc.com/users/bigfoot/scott.htm Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO. It's at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be seen and downloaded at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ roundup/ Last time it was out-of-place alligators. This time it's Bigfoot, Skunk Ape and Chupacabra! What's next!? While we hold our breaths and wait, be sure to check out the National Day celebrations tomorrow in the West African nation of Burkina Faso. Let us know if Mokele M'bembe puts in an appearance. Till then, here's wishing all our readers a pleasant week from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news stories from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: US Lied in UFO Explanations From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:36:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 23:14:49 -0400 Subject: Re: US Lied in UFO Explanations The Red Duke, diving out of the Sun, present his compliments. >From: meccam@erols.com >Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 08:29:58 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Study: US Lied in UFO Explanations >But the SR-71 is known as the "Blackbird" and to my knowledge was always >black. Saw one refueling in the air while on a commerical airliner and >it was large, dark as a dungeon, and had prominent wings and a prominent >tail. Shape far, far away from a sphere, disc, or hockey puck! What >will the AF think of next? The SR-71 started life as the A-11 and A-12 Oxcart Projects for the CIA and A-12 prototypes flew from Groom Lake. The first A-12s weren't painted at all (bare metal) and carried no markings. USAF and CIA photographs show A-12s in various color schemes, one with the upper surfaces white. Black was eventually adopted because it let the airframe dump heat fastest. The obvious reflectivity of bare metal combined with the heights at which the A-12 flew could easily give rise to apparently anomalous "sightings". And eyeball an A-12 or SR-71 straight on, and it looks very saucer-like indeed. Not that many people ever did see them from that angle in the air, I should imagine. MEANWHILE, IN PHOENIX... While we're on the subject (if off the thread) the A-10 Warthog dumps flares so that some poor clown on the ground can give it something to shoot at. The Warthog uses a laser system called Pave Penny to 'acquire' targets. A suffering grunt points a pulse-coded laser at (say) a tank, and Pave Penny picks up and decodes the twinkle this makes (the code is to distinguish the specific target from, e.g., the one your wingman is after). The A-10 will then set about its victim with its monstrous Gatling gun. If this seems to be a laborious process, it is, but the Warthog is a *close support* aircraft, and the system has its virtues. Those of long memory will recall that it was A-10 pilots swanning around on their own initiative during Desert Storm who whimsically turned several Scorpions-full of innocent Brits into bloody bite-sized chunks. Moral: never let an officer do the map reading. Apologies for forgetting who asked and when, why these planes would carry flares and what battlefield use they'd have. Yours &c Periwinkle D. Myrmidon Kite Flier
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 23:18:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso Hello List, I think that Korff's problem with Dilettoso, and his need to attack anyone who gets after him for it, is largely one of trying to put Dilettoso down so that he, Korff, can feel that his capabilities within the field of photographic analysis will seem to be equal or superior to Dilettoso's. But as I recall Bob Shell some time ago pointed out how laughable Korff's knowledge of the general subject is. Even a couple of us on this list who have very little expertise in photography were easily able to point out how the upward curved scratch-like mark on Korff's film as delineated with giant arrows on his p. 198 could in no way have been any suspension line for a UFO-model. Korff never responded to this and never admitted the grossness of this error, not to mention the scads of others. Of course, his desire to push his first book against the Meier case is another reason Korff continues his vendetta against Dilettoso. My impression is that Dilettoso gained most of his know-how on photographical analysis through self-learning, and this has allowed him to stay several jumps ahead of Korff. Below I've enclosed part of an article (in an appendix) that Dilettoso wrote back in 1981 or 82 that will let you have a feel for where he was at in the area of phtographical analysis then. Since then the use of the computer, of course, has become ever more valuable to him as well as all others. Although Dilettoso covers a lot of ground in his Appendix, I believe his skills were of most value to Wendelle Stevens in searching for any evidence of model support strings or devices, in comparing the numbers of pixels within the UFO image edges with that of known objects (mainly trees) a known distance away from the camera (see the last part of the enclosed), and assessing the realism of reflected terrain on the underside of the objects in some of the Meier-case photos. Jim Deardorff - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Taken from Appendix IV of Wendelle Stevens' _UFO Contact from the Pleiades: A Preliminary Investigation Report_ (1982), pp. 386-394 Omitted here: Preface, Table of Contents, Introduction: Qual. vs. Quant. Analysis, Overview of Test Scoring Method, and Questions (relevant to genuineness or hoax). "Analysis of UFO Photographs" by Jim Dilettoso Step by Step Procedure _Examination of Negative: Equip. Program_ 1. Take Film ID# off edge of film; contact manufacturer for info. 2. Log dynamic range of edge ID# into pattern recognition file. 3. Place film in Microscope 40X power; observe grain pattern. 4. Place film in microdensitometer; 1.6 micron scan. 5. Digitize quadrant 10 micron X 10 micron; cover complete pic. 6. Tie-all vector points of quadrants; build complete picture. 7. Dynamic range/pattern recognition program. 8. Thermoluminescence test. 9. Streak test. 10. Make infrared copy print (see appendix). 11. Digitize Infrared copy print. 12. Histogram of both negatives with microscope & microdensitometer. _Digitize Picture/negative: 1. Place neg./print on appropriate light table. 2. Scan with Vidicom system minimum 5 micron resolution. 3. Place color filters in sequence red, green, blue. 4. Magnify 10X, repeat procedure; join tie points. 5. Histogram. _Edge Identification_: 1. Gradient edge identification. 2. Laplacian edge identification. 3. Focus Field Index Identification. 4. Depth of Field calibration. 5. String Search. 6. Reference object calibration. 7. Size/distance functions calculations. 8. Edge enhancement; save; calibrate tie points. 9. Blur ID; movement calculations; object/camera. 10. Color shift one on all edges. 11. Shadow edge ID; x,y locations. 12. Movement calculations: calibrate to shutter speed. _Light & Contour Identification_: 1. Call up Histogram. 2. Band pass filtering; 4 bands 10 false colors assigned each. 3. Histogram ID of Z scale 230 and up; find hot spots. 4. Find shadows; center line for angle of sun. 5. Compare sun angle (hot spot on OBJ) to shadow angles; time. 6. Contour ID based on each band Z scale; topograph. 7. Find cold spots; Z scale under 40; focus under 30. 8. Contrast enhancement; save tie points ID. 9. Identify noise level/haze level. 10. Match noise level on OBJ to FFI #. 11. Observe reflected properties craft to ground images. 12. Band pass filter; observe edge/thermal diffraction. _Enhanced and Composite Image_: 1. Recall enhanced images and tie points _Equipment List_: _Principal_ 1. Microscope 10-100 x power minimum. 2. Microdensitometer; Recommend Joyce Loebel-Vickers PIV-77 or comparable. 3. Interferometer; 0045 Tolerance with .06 micron window. 4. Infraredometer; +7 - .0001% deviation from 1 degree Kelvin +/- .0001% from wavelength. 5. Digitizer; Recommend Fairchild CCD-2: 512X512 array minimum. 6. Image Process Computer Any of these systems: De Anza Systems Ramteck Systems ComTol systems Evans-Sutherlans Spatial Data FORTH Systems _Auxiliary_ 1. Light table. 2. Copy Camera 4X5" with film holders. 3. Infrared film system for copy prints. 4. Electron Microscope. 5. Kirlian photography system. 7. Spectrum Analyzer. _Image Processing System_ _Input sources_: Film negatives Film positives/Transparencies Film positives - paper prints Magnetic tapes from digitizer Histogram _Processing_ Histogram expansion Histogram equalization Fast Fourier convolution windowing false color mapping scaling camera tilt removal aspect ratio change Image addition, subtraction, masking Image averaging Overlay comparisons Multiple scale cursor comparisons Spatial filtering Pattern recognition Edge identification Edge enhancement Contour Identification Contour Enhancement Image Enhancement Image composite; associated points and vectors Focus indexing High pass filtering Low pass filtering Band pass filtering Gradient edge identification Laplacian edge identification Size/distance calculations from focus indexing Radiometric temperature conversion General Data Base management _Overview of Examination Criteria_ The methods herein described are based on the following uses of the data. QUALITATIVE Judgement by the researcher, based on observation of the evidence, opinion. QUALITATIVE Judgement by the researcher, based on QUANTITATIVE DATA, opinion. QUANTITATIVE DATA, opinion. QUALITATIVE DATA; conclusive. The tests to determine the validity of the photographs can be broken into two categories: 1) Examination of the Negative, film grain & emulsion, and 2) Examination of the picture/light structural properties. The tests to understand more about a picture found to be valid take on a more elusive structure. Consistently, UFO pictures are found to be either blurry or extremely clear. There seems to be no inbetween. Pictures that are very clear are always suspect. This seems a bit unfair since, clear pictures are what everyone is hoping for. Nonetheless, correlations among pictures believed to be authentic is the wide open field. Image composites, unusual energy fields, and x-ray approaches have found themselves a place in UFO photo research. Since the phenomenon of UFOs themselves falls into an abnormal physics structure, we find that the methods of analysis must take on an unusual structure. Studies of the non-visible light spectrum and electromagnetic radiation must be applied to understand the pictures once proved authentic. The basis for this composite understanding comes from analysis of the following properties of the picture itself: 1. Study the EDGES of the UFO and other objects in the picture. 2. Study of the LIGHT PROPERTIES in the picture. 3. Study of Energy Fields around the craft, Magnetic Diffraction, & Infrared Light. 4. Building a Composite picture from pictures in sequence or similar craft. 5. Devising new methods of photographing UFOs. _Examination of the Negative_ [omitted here -- as only 2nd-generation film was available] _Examination of the Edges_ 1. _Edge Identification_; using the computer to identify edges is one of the most important functions of Photogrametric [sic] analysis. First, we can clarify whether an object is indeed a symmetrical and hard object; or lights, reflections, or clouds. Depending on the quality of the original picture and depth of field, we may be able to further clarify the size and distance of the object. If the object is suspended by a string, we will be able to see the string as an edge, suspended in the air. Examination of the histogram compared to the original picture will give the edges as a series of pixel values. The objective is to determine how wide the edge is. Provided the picture has been digitized in 1.6 micron scan, we can have an array for a 10 micron quadrant transferred to a 512 x 512 display. This will provide us with a range for edges to be from 1 to 512 pixels. In a 35mm negative, we found most edges to be from 5 for the sharpest images to 45 pixels for those that are at a great distance from the depth of field or are considerably out of focus. This gives us a spread of 40 pixels. [Sketch illustrating this on p. 393] With the depth of field being the area where the edges are the smallest numbers and the smallest single number being the exact center of the lens focus, we can determine how far away one object is in relation to another. This would be in %, unless we know the distance of any other object in the picture. We then assign a distance to that pixel and add or subtract % of distance based on the pixel scale. The system used to perform these calculations is a Hammamatsu Array system. If we do not know the distance of any reference object, then we must state that one object is further than another. Our size/distance calculations at that point are accurate within 25%; what we can tell is if it is a model. [Further sections omitted here: "Light Properties," "Energy Fields, Magnetic Properties, Infrared Film," "Composite and Enhanced Pictures," "Drawing Conclusions, Correlating Data," "Summary of Research Activities," and "Bibliography."]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Comparative Literature From: "Chris Rutkowski" <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:33:26 CST Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 23:20:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Comparative Literature > Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:52:18 -0400 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Comparative Literature > From: werd@interlog.com > Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 19:04:44 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Comparative Literature > > >Does anyone know of any books, or even web pages, that > >do a comparison between religous writings and ufology. > >What I am looking for, is something that breaks down > >the different influential appearances of "god" or > >"angels", and also miracles, and compares these to > >what we know today about ufos and abductions. It's quite interesting to see that three responses to Desiree have interpreted her question in three completely different ways. I understood her to want *comparative" studies and therefore suggested works by Evans, Bullard and Vallee. Drew responded by noting the classic books about ancient astronauts and biblical UFOs such as Downing and the Ezekiel "spaceship." The third person suggested Sitchin's series about "gods and men" that are based on the earlier Von Daniken and Drake volumes. Now the question is, what did Desiree *really* want? :-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 19:19:47 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 23:24:51 -0400 Subject: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > From: SGBList2@aol.com > Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 01:25:04 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > > Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 20:27:29 -0400 > > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > > > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:14:52 -0300 > > > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > > > > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 17:05:13 UT > > > > From: "Steve Bassett" <Paradigm_Research_Group@msn.com> > > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > > Subject: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > > > > List members, > > > > I have attached a Word 6.0 file containing the <Petition for a 1997 > > > > Open Congressional Hearing on Modern UFO Evidence>. > > > > This petition may be downloaded, copied, recopied and distributed by > > > > any interested organization or individual. > > > > Thanks > > > > Steve Bassett > > > > Paradigm Research Group > > > I for one cannot possibly sign anything so broad in effect trying > > > to declassify every piece of technical data out there about flying > > > saucers, methods of detecting them etc. Should Khadafi and Hussein, for > > > example, be given all this stuff?? Remember there is a $30 Billion > > > annual black budget.. How about everything before l950?? > > > Stan Friedman > > Stan, > > Your points have some validity. > > Any suggestions on what you feel would constitute a more appropriate > > petition which would provide protection for national security concerns. > > Or perhaps you feel that this is not an appropriate mechanism at all. > > What would you propose? > > Gary Alevy > __________________________ > One of the aspects of this particular petition is that it is narrowly focused > on a basic concept - immunity provided for personal testimony on UFO related > experience while in service to the United States. This is important in > getting a substantial signature count in reasonable time. > However, the petition leaves plenty of room for refinement of the > presentation format of such a hearing. The idea is to get the attention of > the legislative branch forceably while leaving room for valid security > issues. > Having said that, IMHO the current governing policy of our nation is erring > on the side of too much covert action, stealth and restriction. There is > also a danger there to the security for which Stanton is rightfully > concerned. > Steve Bassett > Paradigm Research Group > ParadigmRG@aol.com Gary: First thought might be amnesty for anyone talking about crashed saucers in July 1947 and about Operation Majestic 12. The USAF is on re ord that there was no alien spacecraft that crashed then and that The MJ-12 Documents are bogus. How can they refuse? Put them in a Catch 22 situation. Hastily, Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 3 Report: Soviet UFO Plot Worried US From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 22:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 23:31:00 -0400 Subject: Report: Soviet UFO Plot Worried US --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Report: Soviet UFO Plot Worried US Date: 97-08-03 18:04:09 EDT From: AOL News .c The Associated Press By GENE KRAMER WASHINGTON (AP) - U.S. officials worried during the Cold War that the Soviets might try to disrupt America's air defense system or the government itself by orchestrating mass UFO sightings, says an historian who scrutinized CIA documents of the period. Such concern prompted the Air Force and others to play down the UFO issue during the 1950s and to concoct false cover stories to explain sightings of alleged ``flying saucers'' that were really super-secret U.S. spy planes, according to an article last spring in a CIA journal. The article by historian Gerald K. Haines said a CIA special study group worried in 1952 that ``the Soviets could use UFO sightings to touch off mass hysteria and panic in the United States.'' He said the U.S. spy agency also was concerned about the possibility that hysteria over UFO sightings might ``overload the U.S. air warning system so that it could not distinguish real (military) targets from phantom UFOs'' and provide the Soviets an advantage for a surprise attack. He said a special panel studying the issue concluded that ``potential enemies contemplating an attack on the United States might exploit the UFO phenomena and use them to disrupt U.S. air defenses,'' wrote Haines. The article, entitled ``CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90'' was published in the spring issue of Studies of Intelligence, a CIA journal. An unclassified version appeared recently on the Internet. Haines is an historian at the National Reconnaissance Office, which monitors and interprets data from intelligence satellites. Haines wrote that concerns about hysteria over alleged UFO sightings prompted creation by the CIA in 1953 of a special outside scientific panel to look into the security implications. The panel headed by California Institute of Technology physicist H. P. Robertson, concluded unanimously that there was no credible evidence of UFOs from outer space, nor evidence of a direct national security threat. But the panel ``did find that continued emphasis on UFO reporting might threaten the orderly functioning of the government by clogging the channels of communication with irrelevant reports and by inducing hysterical mass behavior harmful to constituted authority,'' Haines wrote. Before disbanding, the panel recommended that the National Security Council ``debunk UFO reports and institute a policy of public education to reassure the public of the lack of evidence behind UFOs.'' It also urged the use of the mass media, advertising, business clubs and ``even the Disney Corporation to get the message across,'' wrote Haines. The article gave no indication what involvement had been suggested for the Disney entertainment organization. But by 1956, the Air Force was able to attribute 96 percent of all UFO sightings to the high altitude U-2 and SR-71 intelligence gathering planes, Haines said. But it took care ``not to reveal the true cause of the sightings to the public,'' linking them instead to ``natural phenomena such as ice crystals and temperature inversions.'' A U.S. Air Force spokesman said Sunday that he could not comment on the information without first seeing the report. As for using a cover story to conceal the existence of new aircraft, Maj. Ed Worley said he didn't know if this took place, but added, ``We take extraordinary measures to protect our national resources.'' The original U-2s had silver bodies reflecting the sun's rays and sometimes causing those on the ground to see fiery objects, Haines wrote. Eventually they were painted black, as were the SR-72 ``Blackbirds'' used after 1962. Haines wrote that the CIA's monitoring of the UFO issue during the 1970s and 80s focused more on ``counter-intelligence concerns.'' These included Soviet capability in UFO sightings and suspicion that Moscow might try to use American UFO groups to spy on the vulnerability of U.S. defense to foreign missiles disguised as UFOs. By steadfastly concealing its interest in the matter, the agency itself ``contributed to later charges of a CIA conspiracy and coverup,'' wrote Haines. AP-NY-08-03-97 1746EDT <HTML><PRE><I><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2> Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Corso and the Senator, or Waiting for Trudeau From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 20:16:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:15:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso and the Senator, or Waiting for Trudeau About Corso and the late General Trudeau.... > From: RGates8254@aol.com > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:58:59 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Corso and the Senator, or Waiting for > Trudeau (To Die) > Who knows in the next edition of the book we may find a new > forward > written by Lt. Gen Arthur Trudeau -- posthumously. Of course if > this > happened Corso will have a long elaborate tale about how his buddy > Arthur > wrote the forward on his death bed, sort of like Bob Woodward and > his claimed > interview with Bill Casey on his death bed. What makes this especially comical is that there IS writing by Trudeau -- the man's unpublished memoirs, which Corso says he had access to, and which he quotes very briefly in his book. Not a word about UFOs in the quote, and, I'd bet, not elsewhere in the memoir, either. Of course (please add ironic tone), Trudeau didn't mention the crashed alien ship because it was just too secret..... Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 21:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:19:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights & Flares On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:40:16 GMT > Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights & Flares > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > >From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] > >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:05:17 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Phoenix Lights & Flares > >1) These flares, have a Mark 45 output of 840 watt/sec, ... While we're busy trying to educate Korff, let me point out that this value he gives represents 840 joules per second per second -- a rapidly increasing rate of power expenditure. I point this out only because this is the kind of mistake Kal loves to jump on if he can find it in the writing of someone whom he wishes to discredit. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Comparative Literature From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 22:14:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:27:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Comparative Literature ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Comparative Literature > Date: Sunday, August 03, 1997 8:20 PM > From: "Chris Rutkowski" <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:33:26 CST > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Comparative Literature > > >Does anyone know of any books, or even web pages, that > > >do a comparison between religous writings and ufology. > > >What I am looking for, is something that breaks down > > >the different influential appearances of "god" or > > >"angels", and also miracles, and compares these to > > >what we know today about ufos and abductions. > It's quite interesting to see that three responses to Desiree have > interpreted her question in three completely different ways. > I understood her to want *comparative" studies and therefore > suggested works by Evans, Bullard and Vallee. Drew responded by > noting the classic books about ancient astronauts and biblical UFOs > such as Downing and the Ezekiel "spaceship." The third person > suggested Sitchin's series about "gods and men" that are based on the > earlier Von Daniken and Drake volumes. > Now the question is, what did Desiree *really* want? :-) Hi Chris, All, I visited a website recently, in which the pageowner stated that he believed the reason the government is withholding evidence of UFOs is because it may "disprove the Bible theory". I objected to his statement, on the basis that what people 2, 000 or even 10,000 years ago saw as "God", "angels" or "deities" may in fact have been what we now would call "ufos" or "aliens". The very beginning of the New Testament story of the birth of Jesus is a prime example with the "star of Bethlehem" that guided the three wise-men silently on their journey to the baby Jesus. I merely wanted information about anything that may have been written, no matter how off-the-wall, that compares the UFO phenomenon (encompassing all aspects, including abductions) with any religious writings. I can determine for myself what I deem to be valid research or study. It is simply a topic I am currently interested in for personal reasons. I have to say a HUGE THANKS to all the people who responded, including you Chris. Everything I received was of interest to me. I will indeed be quite occupied with all the reading. Thanks Again, Everyone! :) Desiree Holloway snake@mwaz.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Picture of UFO from Ringold, Georgia From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:18:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:18:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Picture of UFO from Ringold, Georgia Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 23:06:53 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Picture of UFO from Ringold, Georgia >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 10:13:37 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Picture of UFO from Ringold, Georgia >By gum I think we may have another match! I have included a single frame >capture from a video shot in Ecuador in 1995 (at night) of a craft that >looks strikingly similar to this new (daylight) photo from Georgia. >Check it out, have fun noodleing with them in your computers. Also take >note of visual disturbance in the air surrounding the object in the blow up >of the Georgia UFO. >Grist for the mill. :) >Enjoy, >John Velez =============================== My appologies. I forgot to convert the Ecuador picture to a jpeg before passing it along. I hope this didn't cause any inconvenience to anyone. I have attached a jpeg version so everyone (should be) able to just click on it to open it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Crash Case From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 03:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:35:35 -0400 Subject: Crash Case Time Magazine <A HREF="http://www.pathfinder.com/@@5Hks0AcAxfJMvx*A/time/magaz ine/1997/dom/970804/business.crash_case_.html">http://www.pathfinder.com/@@5Hk s0AcAxfJMvx*A/time/magazine/1997/dom/9708</A> AUGUST 4, 1997 VOL. 150 NO. 5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BUSINESS CRASH CASE MAYBE, UM, AN ALIEN LANDING WOULD DO IT BY DANIEL KADLEC ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What could cause a stock market crash? it's an intriguing question with no real answer, other than some kind of surprise. My bet is that it would take a whopper. The bull market is so strong that to send the Dow careening would take something truly out of this world. Here's how it might unfold one day: 8:30 a.m. E.T.: The government reports record low unemployment. On CNBC economist Stephen Roach at Morgan Stanley declares that everyone who wants a job has one. He expects an inflationary spiral in wages. 9:30 a.m.: The market opens; inflation-wary traders send the Dow plunging 160 points as interest rates soar. 10:51 a.m.: Individual investors begin buying the hardest-hit stocks, and the market stabilizes; Coca-Cola schedules a press conference for 1 p.m. 11:01 a.m.: Ed Yardeni at Deutsche Morgan Grenfell and other economists hit the wires saying that rising wages will not lead to inflation in this new era. Institutions, recalling that folks like Roach have been yelling "fire!" for more than a year, start buying. The Dow recovers. 11:37 a.m.: A radio station near Sedona, Ariz., reports a 20-mile UFO--unconfirmed, as usual; the Dow is rallying, as usual. 12:49 p.m.: President Clinton refuses to sign a tax-reform bill, and Newt Gingrich proclaims the capital-gains tax-rate cut dead, raising the specter of government gridlock. The Dow surges 200 points because, well, gridlock has been very profitable in the '90s, and now there's no incentive to sell so, heck, buy! 12:56 p.m.: Saddam Hussein offers proof that he has nukes, and says, by the way, he'd really like to rule Kuwait. Oil prices soar. No one thinks about inflation; it's dead. The Dow jumps to a 265-point gain, led by Chevron and Exxon. 1 p.m.: Coke discloses that a pair of garage scientists has duplicated its famous syrup and is selling the formula worldwide. Warren Buffett, proclaiming that the company is without intrinsic value, dumps his stake. Coke shares rise anyway as the company, one of the biggest in the major-stock indexes, benefits from the mindless buying of stock-index funds. The Dow is up 400 points. 1:15 p.m.: Arizona state police confirm the presence of a UFO. It has landed, and aliens are trying to communicate. The rally pauses briefly. 1:23 p.m.: cnn airs the first photos. A gauntlet of exterior ray guns is visible, and the UFO is presumed hostile. The Dow is up 500, led by defense contractors, security and firearms companies, and any that bottle or can food and drink. 2:17 p.m.: The aliens are now speaking fluent English. They aren't hostile after all. They're here to cut a deal: if we leave their ancient burial grounds on Mars alone, they'll give us technology that is 15 centuries ahead of our time. It will enable us to eliminate world illness and suffering instantly and to make society so productive that everyone will enjoy peace and prosperity. On Wall Street the bottom falls out. The Pentium chip might as well be a buggy whip; Windows 98 a manual typewriter. As sky-high tech stocks become worthless, everything follows, and from the elite on Wall Street to the masses in mutual funds, they begin to think maybe, just maybe, they ought not take the deal. Daniel Kadlec is TIME's Wall Street columnist. Reach him at kadlec@time.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: New York Times Article on Govt UFO Lies From: Andromeda0@aol.com [Jared Anderson] Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 03:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:36:45 -0400 Subject: Re: New York Times Article on Govt UFO Lies >From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 05:11:46 -0400 (EDT) >Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 09:31:49 -0400 Subject: New York Times >Article on Govt UFO Lies >________________ >C.I.A. Admits Government Lied About U.F.O. Sightings >By WILLIAM J. BROAD >In the darkest days of the Cold War, the military lied to the American >public about the true nature of many unidentified flying objects in an >effort to hide its growing fleets of spy planes, a CIA study says. >The deceptions were made in the 1950s and '60s amid a wave of UFO >sightings that alarmed the public and parts of official Washington. >The CIA study says the Air Force knew that most reports by citizens >and aviation experts were based on fleeting glimpses of U-2 and SR-71 >spy planes, which fly extremely high. >Those planes were developed in the 1950s and '60s to photograph enemy >targets. From secret bases, mainly in California and Nevada, the >aircraft repeatedly flew across the country and eventually overseas to >bases in countries that included Britain, West Germany and Taiwan. >While commercial airliners in the 1950s flew at altitudes of up to >30,000 feet, the U-2 soared to more than 60,000 feet and the SR-71 to >more than 80,000 feet, or 15 miles, nearly the edge of space. The CIA report discussed in the article here is not new and was addresssed last month. Although this report is noteworthy and sheds insight into the Air Force's policy and treatment of the UFO question, it is actually of very little significance to scientific UFO research. This was iterated in some detail by Don Berliner and Rob Swiatek at their July press conference on C-SPAN concerning the Air Force's Roswell report. Swiatek asserted that this new revelation by the CIA deals specifically with IFO's not UFO's. An intriguing contradiction is that according to the CIA's report following the first test flights of the U-2 there was a sudden increase in UFO reports and that about 50% of all UFO reports could be explained as U-2's. This is controvened by the Air Force's Blue Book records that state exactly the opposite favoring a decrease in UFO reports post U-2 inception. Bluebook also stated that only about 15% of UFO reports could be explained as aircraft of all types. Berliner also stated that it is unlikely that the U-2 was mistaken for UFO's due to several reasons: First is the fact that the U-2 had such a conventional aircaft appearance with long wings and a longitudinal body, and second because it was designed to fly at very high altitudes so as to be undetectable to witnesses on the ground. While it seems very likely that the Air Force has made deceptive statements concerning IFO's that were designed to maintain secrecy surrounding classified aircraft projects, the available evidence seems to suggest that the U-2 in particular was probably not involved. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Report: Soviet UFO Plot Worried US From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 14:37:15 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:40:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Report: Soviet UFO Plot Worried US >From: RSchatte@aol.com >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 22:19:36 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Fwd: Report: Soviet UFO Plot Worried US >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >Subj: Report: Soviet UFO Plot Worried US >Date: 97-08-03 18:04:09 EDT >From: AOL News >.c The Associated Press > By GENE KRAMER > WASHINGTON (AP) - U.S. officials worried during the Cold War >that the Soviets might try to disrupt America's air defense system >or the government itself by orchestrating mass UFO sightings, says >an historian who scrutinized CIA documents of the period. [snip] > But by 1956, the Air Force was able to attribute 96 percent of >all UFO sightings to the high altitude U-2 and SR-71 intelligence >gathering planes, Haines said. But it took care ``not to reveal the >true cause of the sightings to the public,'' linking them instead >to ``natural phenomena such as ice crystals and temperature >inversions.'' Actually the article did not say the SR71 was flying in 1956, because it wasn't. But to assert that the USAF could attribute 96 pct of all UFO reports to reconnaissance planes is quite ridiculous. In the first place, because the U2 and later the SR71 flew so high that they could only be seen from other airplanes while by far the majority of UFO sightings come from ground observers. Secondly, while the planes were painted black in 1962, there was no marked decrease in UFO sightings in the following years, on average. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:57:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:54:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez My respects to my friend the Duke, but I believe he's missing the point. >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> >Subject: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Gawd strewth, spare me days. I didn't say Javier PdeC MUST react to > *anything*. I said that if he HAD had a change of heart (however > this > may be established) then those inclined to believe he was abducted > on > the night in question would have a small piece of circumstantial > evidence on their side. (Imagine *that*! "SKEPTIC RECANTS! Dread > Duke > Mondoz supports Linda case!" would be as accurate an interpretation > of what I actually said as the above from Greg.) In an earlier post, wondering what de C's environmental beliefs might be, our favorite nobleman noted: >It would still be interesting to know what the answers really are, >even if it would be somewhat unkind to ask why no one raised these >questions before. So the point is that the worthy Duke, from the vastness of his Welsh fortress, does in fact believe that de Cuellar's environmental record might just possibly provide evidence (even if only a small piece) in the Linda case. And it's exactly this that made me exasperated enough to call Peter "naive." He then suggested I might be "defensive," but this is not my problem at all. I'm just tired of seeing abudctions discussed without proper data. Peter's impish commentary depends on an unstated assumption, namely that abductees change their behavior in ways that correspond with what they believe the aliens have told them. There is no evidence for this. There are no scientific studies (or at least none that I know of) about abductees' reaction to their belief that they've been abducted. But there's plenty of anecdotal information, and from what I've picked up from meeting many of the abductees Budd Hopkins works with, and from attending support group meetings, I'd say that abductees react to their abductions in a variety of ways. Some wholeheartedly embrace the aliens, and believe everything they think they've been told. Others don't go that far, but still feel that their abductions were a significant, life-changing experience, one that forces them to reconsider everything they believe. Others, however, simply learn to get on with their lives. And some -- one published source that makes this clear is David Jacobs' book -- fiercely resist accepting anything they think the aliens do or say. You don't have to believe abductions are real to recognize that this spectrum of reactions exists. You just have to listen to a large number of abductees talk. This, then, is the data, pending scientific study. Many of Hopkins' abductees believe they've had environmental messages from the aliens. Not many, to the best of my knowledge, have acted on them. On the basis of this data, there is no way to predict how any abductee will react to a believe that he or she has received these messages. Therefore there's no way to predict how de Cuellar would react. And because of that, there's no way that his environmental record could possibly provide even circumstantial evidence suggesting that he does or doesn't believe he's been abducted. Any environmental position would be consistent with past abductee experience -- even fierce anti-environmentalism, which de Cuellar (or any abductee) might move towards, as a way of denying and resisting abduction beliefs. What's especially sad here is something obvious that Peter missed. De Cuellar, after all, was not the only abductee allegedly involved with alien environmental messages in the Linda case. There's Linda herself -- who, unlike de Cuellar, admits that she's an abductee, and is right here on this list, available for questioning on her own environmental beliefs. Her involvement, in fact, was much stronger than de Cuellar's, since she's depicted in "Witnessed" as the aliens' environmental agitator. She presents de Cuellar with a dead fish, and declares "Look and see what you have done!" So is Linda an environmentalist today? She should correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't noticed that she is. And I HAVE heard her say that she remains as politically and culturally conservative as she was before her 1989 abduction. From other things she's said, I'd place her firmly in the camp of those who resist what she believes are her alien experiences. I don't think she's going to yield an inch to the aliens -- she wants to live her life on her own terms, and is horrified by everything she's come to feel the aliens have done. So what about it, Peter? Will you accept Linda as an example of an abductee who's not visibly influenced by the environmental messages she believes she's not only received, but helped the aliens convey? And if she wasn't influenced, why should de Cuellar be? (And yes -- I know, even though Peter didn't mention this, that de Cuellar mentions in a letter he allegedly sent to Budd that he's going to devote his life to things the aliens told him, or words to that effect. But he said that, or supposedly said it, in the first flush of discovering what he believed were his experiences. It's common for abductees to change their minds many times about what their experiences mean, and if de Cuellar -- assuming for the moment that he really believes he was abducted -- first rushed to embrace the alien message and then backpedalled and decided he wasn't sure it was valid, he would hardly be the first abductee to make such a shift.) This whole discussion makes me sad. If we began from accurate information, we wouldn't have to have it. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Another Question for Kal From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 02:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:34:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal Dear Don and Jim: Recently, Don Allen mentioned that I never sent my rebuttal to him regarding Billy Meier and Jim Deardorff states a bold faced LIE that I have a "vendetta" against Jim Dilettoso. Let me quickly address these then I have to leave to go on travel, sorry. Don, I DID send you my rebuttal to Billy Meier some time ago. That was over a month ago if I remember. If you never received it, the I will be happy to send it again. It is the least I can do, and I truly APPRECIATE your willingness to try and kick it back in Meier's direction. Now that I know you did not get this response, I can see why you would be frustrated and this is perfectly reasonable. I did not post this response to Updates, I just sent it to you. It is way too long for Updates. For your information, Don, I have also added new material to it, like the announcement that the Anti Defamation League is now after Meier and is working with the Swiss authorities regarding this. Switzerland is tired of their cults going up in flames and people killing themselves. Remember, out of the 20 major religious cult leaders in Switzerland, 18 of them claim to be the "Messiah" -- including Billy Meier. Although of course NONE of these bozos call themselves a cult. It's bad for business. The recent and present Anti Defamation League action was announced on a recent radio station and is the work of someone else, not me. I can send anyone tapes of these actions. Just email me. [Now I will get at least 501 emails a day, instead of just 500 :-) ] Regarding Art Bell, I am still waiting to hear from him and have done as HE asks. If Bell does not let me on his show (meaning he changes his invitation to me) then of course I will post this info. I will not let Bell off the hook on this. Don, I do NOT recall ever having used the word "conspiracy" regarding me and Bell. Those are someone else's words or phrase, not mine, and I don't know whose they are. To Jim Deardorff: You are WRONG about a "vendetta" against Dilettoso. To be honest I would rather not bother with Dilettoso matters, but I feel I have no choice here because NO ONE (ESPECIALLY YOU JIM) are addressing two things: 1) Dilettoso LIED about Having a PhD SEVERAL TIMES and 2) That regardless of one's photo analysis "expertise," WITHOUT ORIGINAL NEGATIVES NO UFO PHOTOS (even Meiers) CAN BE AUTHENTICATED. Challenge to you Jim: WHY have you IGNORED Dilettoso's LIES about his imaginary degrees and HAVE REFUSED TO ADMIT THAT WITHOUT ORIGINAL NEGATIVES MEIER'S PHOTOS CAN'T BE PROVEN "AUTHENTIC" CONTRARY TO WHAT DILETTOSO SAYS?? I want to know WHERE you stand on these issues and the subject of Dilettoso's "PhD". Well, Jim? PLEASE enlighten ALL of us and your posting of Dilettoso's "paper" proves nothing. If anything, Mr. Deardorff, it makes you look pretty stupid because you are DUCKING these issues. When I return, I will post JUST FOR YOU TO ADDRESS, JIM, the CONFESSION of the OTHER con artist that helped Jim Dilettoso FAKE his Meier "photo analysis." This confession was aired recently on a Phoenix radio station. Thanks for your comments, Don, sincerely, and I will dig up my Meier response and re-send it to you if you like. I would also like your editorial comments on it Don, because maybe you can shorten it or make it better. I don't know, but would appreciate your input before it gets posted all over our planet. To Jim Deardorff: Your desperation in support of Meier is lame and truly sad. But in the interim, ANSWER these two questions regarding Dilettoso and the subject of NO ORIGINAL photo negatives. If you REFUSE to do so, Mr. Deardorff, then everyone will KNOW that you stupidly believe that one can authenticate photos without original negatives. Finally, my background and qualifications concern more on the computer end of things as opposed to conventional film. They are distinctly different disciplines. I would assume that Bob Shell knows far more than I do about photography issues and I PROBABLY (don't know for sure) know more about computer related graphics. After all, being on Apple Computers' and Claris Corporation's HyperCard Development and QuickTime Teams wre very graphics intensive. If you don't know what HyperCard and QuickTime are, Mr. Deardorff, then go read half a dozen books and get back to me when you know what you are talking about. Finally, Don, it is "Kal the MACnificent" (as in Macintosh computer), not "Magnificent." I assume this was a typo on your part. :-) Sincerely yours, Kal Korff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Alien Contact 1947 - British Columbia From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 09:11:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:59:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Contact 1947 - British Columbia This letter was received at UFO*BC.We thought the readers at UFO Updates might find it interesting.Please check out our website at http://www.ufobc.org Dear Graham, I have tried to condense this, and apologize for the length. This is an old story, some of the terror has lessened, and although it has been blanked out of my life, I would have a flashback, and re-live it. My mother was there, but we never in all these years ever spoke of it. Two years ago, I re-met my brother, and recalled a little of what I remembered, he said he did not recall, and "things that are beyond our control, never question it," then he walked away. We lived in Langley Prairie, (as it was then called), our home was at the side of the (then called) Trans Canada Highway. Cloverdale/Langley border ran through the property. We were not in school, it could have been Spring or Summer holidays - It was a hot day, not a cloud in the sky. The war had ended. The year was 1947, I was 16 years old. There were very few homes in this area, a lot of trees in areas, and a lot of flat farm land. My brother and I were at the creek that ran close to our home. He was in the water catching minnows, and I sat under a large tree reading. It was very quiet, I had heard a hum, but I thought nothing of it, the next I knew, a silver/gray, and what I know of today, was a UFO, sat down right in front of me. I go in and out of a blank state for an hour or so - Do not know the time frame. A door opened, I believe from bottom to top, and out walked four or five grotesque creatures, looking like praying mantis, wearing dull silver/gray body fitted covering, no buttons, zippers, - nothing. By this time, I had stood up, and still held my book, one creature came right to me, and stood looking at me, took my book and looked at it. It put its hand on my shoulder, it could read my thoughts, everything I thought of, it knew. It was so terrifying --------! It looked into my eyes deeply, and I am certain I could hear the black eyes click, just like a camera. I was feeling much calmer now, and sent my Shouting Mother away, saying "he would shoot her if she did not go back inside the house". I sensed they were here due to the war and bombs. The creature left me, and walked away to the other creatures, they walked around the UFO inspecting it, there was a problem, and they were trying to fix it. ---It was to do with the front door area, I am sure. As I stood under the tree, my mind cleared, and I had a good view, and I realized that more cars were passing on the Highway in front of us, they could see everything. I thought to myself, and can remember this so well, "The silly fools, don't they realize someone driving by will be able to see them and the large silver dome." The creature came right back to me, looked into my eyes, and that hand on my shoulder, said by telepathy, "We are leaving now, do not look up, do not look up, do not look up." My head was down on my chest, and the next thing I heard was a hum-hum. I thought, "Yes, I can look up, I will look up, and there it was, at the top of the tree, right over my head, going up quickly into a sky that had about four military planes, going faster than I have ever seen, with a deafening noise never before heard, I think they had been circling for ages, and now the chase was on! The UFO just slid right across the sky going towards Washington, there is no way those planes could ever catch it. There must be tons of reports on this sighting, I realize now. I called my brother, he did not move, I had to step into the creek, take him by the hand, call his name, and said, "We will go home now." Mother was in the kitchen when we came in, she was nasty, and said, "So, you finally came home," - We did not speak, we needed water, I could not drink enough, then went to bed. I spent many days, or even weeks in bed, have no idea, but I was crimson, no aspirin helped, just water and deep sleep. Eventually, when I was able to stay up and walk around, I could see from the kitchen window, a large circle of burnt or black grass, and three months later, we moved away. I have never spoken to anyone about this, and find it very hard to write about. I started a journal a few years ago and could not finish it. - Name withheld by request
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 UFO*BC - LATEST SIGHTINGS From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 09:18:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 20:05:26 -0400 Subject: UFO*BC - LATEST SIGHTINGS Saturday July 26th 12:40 a.m. Boundary and Grandview Highway. Outside my house with a friend, looking to the north at big dipper, talking about the comet and satellites etc. Clear night, lots of stars. Saw a large dark orange object flying east to west. No sound, no lights, not an airplane, helicopter, falling star, comet... I noticed it at about 1:00 position to 10:00 oclock position. Took about nine seconds then blocked by trees. Flew lower than commercial or private aircraft and was much larger...First time I ever saw such a thing. Same went for my friend. July 28, 1997 - Surrey, BC At approximately 12:05am a woman observed from 68th and King George Hwy. in the Newton area a brillian white light hovering in the southeast sky. The woman believed the object was hovering over Cloverdale. The object pulsed and faded at times getting extremely bright, at other times the size of a small star. Several unconventional movements were also observed during the 30 minute viewing. July 31, 1997 - Richmond, BC At about 11:15pm Heather and her husband were out on the sundeck in their Richmond home. Looking up she observed an extremely bright, orange, white object shaped like a boomerang moving the northwest to the southeast. The object was silent and about the size of a dime at arms length. In her own words "It was an incredibly beautiful sight." She lost sight of it after about 10 seconds due to large trees in the area. Her dog during the time of the sighting continued to whimper and act strangely. Other dogs in the neighbourhood could be heard barking during the brief sighting. Both Heather and her husband are familiar with air traffic as they live so close to the airport. For the latest BC happenings visit http://www.ufobc.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Alfred's Odd Ode #164 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 09:19:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:42:17 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #164 Apology to MW #164 (For August 4, 1997)=20 What do you get for the Alien View? What's in it for real, what's in it for you? What is the pay off, how is it lettered? Why should you take it, how is it better? The answer is measured in moments of ease. When you're thankful for blessings, and free of disease. When the morning light sings all its praises to you. And you're blessed some respite from your hatred of Jews. Self hatred is gone in the life of a fly. Self loathing is gone if you're wondering why. The ending of hatred of others beginning, The peace with yourself _in itself_ extra innings. You return to the store from the lot with your cart. That boy gets a break, some respite, a new start. You treat everyone else as you would be treated Your pleasure increases -- you're not feeling cheated. A clean way to live as you do what you do? Who pays for your play? Is it just? Is it true? Are you stealing, double dealing, unfaithful at best? Satisfaction a rare bird, and you're failing your test? With the alien view this tends to recede, And a break that is even is what you'll concede. You'll be thankful for water that comes out of your sink. Your fear of the strange is deep sixed in the drink. You welcome the sky and the depths of its reaches. You pick up your trash -- stop polluting the beaches. You find that your brother _cannot_ be your enemy. Your conscience is more than a cricket named Jiminy! You don't throw it away so you're saving your money. You're closer to your friend, and you're tighter with your honey. You're electing a government to steward Earth's seed.=20 You insure that it's tailored to *individual* need. The homeless disappear from forgotten city streets, And the food you eat's more edible, nutritious and complete. The DOW's a hundred thousand -- living cities past the sky. . . The millions now past suffering may never have to die. Population would decrease in turn, in line with common sense. Those remaining sort their garbage, not un-clever, not so dense. The Earth springs back from humankind's awaited kind surcease. You find diversity a good thing, just the thing to keep the peace. It's not so much you're *gaining* that sells the Alien View. It's the feeling that you're getting when respected 'cause you're you. It's what you don't put up with, what simply goes away -- Dishonesty, hypocrisy, and night melt into day. =20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com It's been requested by a reader or two <g> for some ideas on how they might get their own Alien View. I humbly submit the proceeding as a suggested starter bibliography for an exploration of that mind set.=20 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =20 I seriously doubt if many of us come by the Alien View intuitively (perhaps Theodore Sturgeon), so it helps, after hard inculcation by an axe grinding mainstream, to examine the obscure, inconvenient, and suspiciously maligned -- _then_, individually, decide what rings true. This is the essence of an illusive Alien View.=20 =20 The Alien View suggests you logically and unemotionally examine every situation as a reasonable, well intentioned, and informed ET might, sans preconceived human, or personal notion. You cannot, then, by definition, have an axe to grind. Get perspective, insist on some distance. Your first impulse must be to put yourself in the other persons shoes, precluding a desire to commit intellectual suicide for a flag or religion -- be truthful though it hurts or offends personal or convenient values, and let real chips fall where they may. =20 Here's a disclosing and anecdotal example by a friend of the Ali en View in action. One day in the mid 1980's at the height of the societal drubbing the *traitor* Jane Fonda was enduring, it occurred to him, (in new light of the recognition that the Viet Nam war was an illegal, immoral, and unethical endeavor perpetrated for what could not be WRONGER reasons) . . . that his hatred of Jane Fonda was unjustified, specious, and without foundation. She was in fact a hero . . .and he was able to see her validity and courage. =20 Seriously, he had an axe to grind. he was a *hero* of that war -- he has a distinguished flying cross, and a purple heart from that war -- and was making a very good living turning other young men into steely eyed killers who would subsequently fly in future wars fought for the ubiquitous and persistent wrong reasons. . . What was it, though, that would feed his hatred for her after he discovered she was right? The hatred was a knee jerk reaction that served selfish ends. The Alien View sees that for what it is -- arbitrary, abusive, unjust. . . unconstructive.=20 =20 Please understand, being honest enough to cop to the truth regarding Viet Nam (Only ONE heresy I have embraced) in no way diminishes the pride I feel on a personal level for volunteering when my country called, nor should it detract from the ultimate sacrifice made by those 50,000 who names are scratched in stone on Washington's wall. We were young, and unlike Jane Fonda, our cognitive dissonance would not let us believe that our parents, teachers, and leaders would ever lie to us. This is what the Alien View sees -- even _well intentioned_ prevarication, the allowance of that prevarication, then reaping what is sown. The Alien View makes the admission that the 50,000 died needlessly -- MacNamara all but admitted it, all that remains is to cop.=20 We don't -- THAT causes the problem! Further, balance what those 50,000 men and women mean to us against 30,000 children that starve to death on this planet every day of our lives. Perspective=85 distance! =20 The following bibliography went a long way to developing my alien view -- which brings up a problem we may have, you and I! If you are obstinate that (blind) nationalism, and (hate mongering) religious fundamentalism are not tearing this world apart, then go back to sleep. If you are similarly obstinate in a belief your government agencies or your captains of industry are concerned with your welfare . . .no problem. . .I'll get you up for "American Gladiators." =20 1. The first book to read is "The 12th Planet", by Zecharia Sitchin. This is the lance for the boil of your ignorance. It satisfies the most important step in problem solving by beginning at the beginning (understanding). The Sumerian pictograph and cuneiform illuminated by Sitchin contain reference for all the religions of our present time. Also contained in these antique Chaldean expressions are references to science, mathematics, and astronomy referenced from a time prior to even the Sumerians. Our civilization did not achieve confirmations of some of this knowledge until THIS CENTURY. Bet you missed that in college!=20 =20 Some readers miss the point that this book only regards the potential for Ancient Astronauts. But what the book is really about is how and where our Judeo-Christian religious traditions originated, and why God/Yahweh, and Satan are not what you think they are. Sitchin is one of only 200 people in the world that can read the substance of these texts, and is highly regarded. Six more books await the reader, after the startling revelations of "The 12th Planet." =20 2. Another book to read is "Lies My Teacher Told Me", by James W. Loewen. This book is a painful read because it is the perfect illustration that "nothing is the way you think it is" (another precept of the Alien View). Cognitive dissonance is explored as a reason for allowing horrific educational, societal, and cultural behaviors that persist to this day. Moreover, our blindered educational system is pointed up as the cause of our continued folly, and misery.=20 =20 3. Immanuel Velikovski . . . yeah, I hear some of your internal dialogue, you're wrong -- shut up. I have testimony of four Ph.D. college professors (hard sciences -- astronomy, chemistry, physics) on what they thought of I.V.. Two said he was a great thinker ahead of his time, and two said he was crazy. When questioned further, which two, do you suppose, had never read his books? Guess wrong, and it almost time for "American Gladiators."=20 =20 Here are the two main I.V. bunkies : a. Those that never read, but repeat some tired old taken-out-of-context -- strange sounding -- nearly impossible to prove or disprove item that *someone else* told them about=85 or =85 =20 b. The worst type, the CSICOP boys that have a big axe to grind for maintaining the status quo in a smarmy bid to stay at the funding trough. Their reaction to his book is the most repugnant because they know better. When the Catholics persecuted Galilao at least they rationalized God as the excuse. All the CSICOP boys have is a lack of desire to rethink their own work, and a manufactured, unreasonable embarrassment at being caught wrong. The books to read are "Worlds in Collision," and " Earth in Upheaval, " These are worth reading if for no other reason than that they are the subject of such hateful derision and vituperation by the establishment. The Alien View says "read specifically what you are told not to read." The stronger a specious warning to avoid, the more your investigation should be drawn. Velikovsky, by the way, seems better referenced than his detractors, which are all proclamation, and limited imagination, and who all campaigned heroically to keep him from even being published!=20 =20 4. "Dark Matter, Missing Planets, and New Comets: Paradoxes Resolved, Origins Illuminated." by Tom Van Flandren. This book is not so important just because it challenges the conventional paradigm of the universe, but because it exposes the shortcomings of our current inductive system of model building, and just how far some of these modelers will go to keep YOU worshiping at their particular alter of science! =20 5. "Gods of Eden." By William Bramberg. I say again, this is not about UFO's, as much as this is about why we have had, and who profits from Western Civilization's long legacy of bloody conflict. =20 6. "Democracy for the Few." by Michael Parenti. Do you really think anyone above you really cares? Guess again -- if it is advantages or profitable for you to die -- then you die. I hear more internal dialogue? Best scratch the scales from your eyes, and do a little growing up. =20 7. "Fingerprints of the Gods," by Graham Hancock is not another pyramid book. No, this is more about man's inhumanity to man, and that skinny bird dog peeing on your leg -- you know the one I mean, the one that wont hunt! Read about grand misrepresentations of Western Civilization arrogant to the extreme. Read how our history just does not add up!=20 =20 8. Read all the works by Theodore Sturgeon, particularly "Godbody" which can only be found in used bookstores, or other "hard to find" book outlets. Mr. Sturgeon is what being gestalt is all about. Prepare to laugh and weep. =20 9. Rent a video documentary called "Cover-up: Behind the Iran Contra Affair," made by Barbara Trent. I don't like to think about the implications of this film -- it is that disturbing. Consider a government program in place to round up dissidents and undesirables...consider going to jail for asking good questions.=20 Sometimes the Alien View is other than pleasant. . .but things are not as they seem, and we have _never_ been in Kansas, Auntie M! So says the Alien View. =20 10. "The Rise and Decline of Western Liberalism," by Anthony Arblaster provides a through history of liberalism, and conservatism as political movements, paying particular attention to who was standing on who's neck at the start. =20 11. Read my "Apology to MW" series for countless representations of the Alien View. . . goes without saying <g>! That's all for now -- keep looking up, out, and in, but most assuredly where they tell ya' not to look! For all the rest -- it's time for "American Gladiators." --=20 Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for taking an alien view. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies=20 (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind=20 in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not=20 living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented=20 support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." =20 ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Analysis of lights vs flares From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Monday, 4 August 1997 12:56pm MT Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 20:37:40 -0400 Subject: Analysis of lights vs flares After reading Rebecca's comments concerning "smoke" seen in one of the videos (we are not sure which one), we examined the Kryston, King, and Raerden footage again and saw not a wisp (excuse the pun) of evidence of smoke. I include this additional information, part of which was a reply sent to Dr. Deardorf: The truth is: we could not possibly have seen the flares dropped on the test range because of a viewing impediment called mountains. The flares allegedly jettisoned by the A-10s were Luu2 magnesium flares which burn a bright white. These flares are usually launched at 6,000' and ignite at 3,000' and have an average drop rate of 200'/min. The lights we saw were a pure golden yellow, not white, and maintained formation at a fixed altitude for a period of 4+ min. If they had been flares, they would have dropped at least 800' in that period. They did not drop at all. If they had, they would have dropped below the trees and houses in our line of sight. Flares on parachutes do not hover due to rising hot air - chutes are not balloons trapping hot air. Anyone who watches flares on chutes can see them descend, and when there is more than one flare, cross-currents cause the suspended flares to sway and move laterally - this according to the laws of physics as Korff would say. The Channel 12 news crew shot footage of flares on the test range and they descended and could not maintain a formation within the duration of time shot in any of the videos. Next week we will try an experiment during a flare drop on the test range and go to our original location, and, if we can see flares, we will tape them. I and others observed the lights through binoculars and a Celestron terrestrial 500mm short-tube scope with a 25x eyepiece. These lights then took on a perfectly round shape and were pulsating rapidly. No smoke, fire, or parachute was visible. No aircraft lights or noises were visible during the appearance of these lights. One light appeared near the mountain top, but IN FRONT OF THE MOUNTAIN indicating that this formation was 5 to 7 miles from our position. A second video taken by Chuck Raerden from Apache Junction gives us a triangulation on the position of the lights - many miles north of the test range. In addition, Jim Dilettoso using a software package called Image Pro did a frequency analysis on each of the unknown lights vs flares. The flare footage was taken by a Channel 12 news team visiting the test range. Jim looked for something he called "sigma" values. The software uses Fast Fourier Transforms to translate the light image pixel by pixel into a waveform pattern. So the waveforms are compared light to light and light to flare. The result: the waveform for the unknown lights appears smooth like a hill and maintains roughly the same form from center to edge as the cursor line is moved over the light. There is no corona or glare from the unknown light (as we observed it) and the analysis confirms this as it drops off suddenly at the edges. The flare lights, on the other hand, have lots of spikes and ragged waveforms that change drastically from center to edges. In other words, the sigma signature changes rapidly with the flare lights and the flare lights do not match the unknown lights. The unknown lights match each other and match across videos - the Kryston lights and King lights are identical, but not flares. Here is another result. The RGB (Red-Green-Blue) components of the unknown lights are superimposed and identical indicating that the light source is coherent (in phase) and not dispersive. The RGB components of the flare lights were separated and ragged indicating incoherent light sources. These same colored lights have been seen ascending and dancing around as well as hovering in various parts of this valley, east, north, west, and south. These same lights have been seen in the deserts and mountains of California and over the properties of classified aerospace facilities. Witnesses have been as close as twenty feet and describe these lights as "orbs" about the size of a basketball. We are also filing an FOIA request to find out what path the Maryland ANG flight took over the test range and what times they supposedly dropped these flares as I am hearing stories out of Tucson that no flight of A-10s landed at 10 PM that night! Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Another Question for Kal From: "Gary Mont" <gem@mulberry.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:15:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 21:24:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Another Question for Kal > Date: Saturday, August 02, 1997 8:25 PM > Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 18:06:54 GMT > Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Another Question for Kal > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > >From: XianneKei@aol.com > >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 06:59:23 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Another Question for Kal > >Kal, we know you wrote, not one, but two books. We know > >that you are not a debunker ------------------------------- > Naah, he couldn't be a debunker. He's just simply > mistaken. I wonder how many books one needs to write > to be considered a serious researcher, and not a > debunker? <g> One. Apparently. The public in general, as far as I can tell, never uses the word debunker. It thinks of the debunker as either a misguided or well-guided 'serious' investigator, depending on whether they want there "to be, or to not be", 'things that go bump in the real world', like Aliens from Outer Space. It most often assumes, that if the debunker has written a book, then s/he must be an expert, or a scientist, or a scholar. The word is almost exclusively used by those who have experienced the unusual/unexplained, to describe those people who take it upon themselves to publically ridicule all such accounts. A nastier name should have been chosen methinks. The debunker; one who investigates 'scams', to discover the 'cheat who preys on the weak and the old', stands as the champion of public interest. One book should suffice to gain ephemeral letters after your name in the public mind, and gain the instant trust of those who believe that what they don't know can't hurt them. G.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 22:18:00 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 21:26:32 -0400 Subject: Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book >From: DianaOmega@aol.com [Dianne Cameron] >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:11:27 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book >You might find more fuel for your arguments in Hal Puthoff's >work... Not likely. None of it, in any way, challenges GR. It's entirely consistent with it. __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 22:18:22 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 21:28:20 -0400 Subject: Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book >Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 17:16:22 +1000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: alien face in Jung's UFO book >Alcubierre requires "negative energy". It is NO challenge to relativity. If >"negative energy" is ever found to exists, only then could it pose a threat >to the idea of a luminal speed barrier. There's no "threat" to relativity in either case. GR demands that you don't violate, locally, the speed of light restriction. Alcubierre's scheme avoids doing so. Puthoff's ideas are different. He suggests it is perhaps possible to change the speed of light itself (locally again) allowing for far higher speeds within that region of space. __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 John Velez Online 02Aug97 From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 22:08:31 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 21:35:41 -0400 Subject: John Velez Online 02Aug97 Hi Errol Hi All We on the UK_UFO_Network Online had the pleasure of having John Velez=20 online on our regular saturday night meeting. We would welcome anyone=20 that would like to join us on any of our saturday night meetings. I enclose edited log of the chat this saturday. The only editing that I=20 have done is all the unnessary chit-chat. This log also has the OK of=20 John for general release. ------------------------------------------------------- <Nesssus> Firstly could we welcome you John and say how much we all appreciate you attending, we know you have a busy schedule. The meet is going to be moderated, so you don't get overwhelmed with everyone talking in the channel at once. If you could please give everyone a short introduction and brief insight of your experiences, we will then invite the channel members to ask you any questions they may have. If you could could type '??' after you have finished answering. <Velez> Hello all. Very briefly then, my background is in human services and graphic art. The last five years have been spent working with Budd Hopkins and I've been trying to raise public consciousness about UFO's and the alien presence on our world.?? <Velez> You've got me for two hours, lets start taking questions.?? *SeekeR* did ya see any aliens close up in the ufo, Velez? <Velez> Yes, I have several conscious memories (not derived thru hypnosis) involving being on board a UFO. Interaction was with Grey beings. I also have memories of some beings that appear to be larger versions of the little grey ones and much more "insect like" in appearance.?? *Jorgen_* question: have the abductions been going on since you were a child, and are there others in your family who have similar experiences? <Velez> Jorgen, yes, a lifetime of unexplained experiences and phenomena. And yes to the second part of your question, this is a multi-generational business (abductions) my whole family has been affected.?? *skygypsy* QUESTION: Do the aliens exhibit any emotion at all? <Velez> Yes! Affection of all things, but only on one occasion that I can recall.?? *pathFINDR* to Velez--> at what age did you realise that something was occuring and when did you attribute it to alien abduction? <Velez> My earliest recollection (UFO related) is at about age 4 or 5. I didn't realize what was going on until 5 tears ago,...I was 43 years old at the time.?? *pathFINDR* Do you have any children, do they have any strange dreams, how old are they? <Velez> Two, my daughter is 25 and my son is 22. I'm also a grandad! And yes, both children have many abduction related memories and marks on their bodies. (ie:odd scoop marks and scars) *Hideout* can you ask, how many types of aliens he has witnessed <Velez> Three different types, none of them 'human looking' such as 'Nordics'.?? *TopGun* please ask him: I read your NOVA interview. You said that you have been implanted. Where is the implant in your body and did you remove it that it could be examined? <Velez> The "implant" is buried deep in the center of my head and is most likely inoperable. <Velez> I offered NOVA the opportunity to perform CAT scans or x-rays, but they refused.?? *Crew^* Do you recall seeing any furniture in the craft? <Velez> A chair that appears to be a part of the walls and floor, (no seams) and the pillar-like table that so many report along with pillar like stools which also appear to be a single unit with the rest of the room.?? *Law* Velez: and what your gov say=B4s about it? <Velez> The "government" denies all knowledge as you well know.?? *Hideout* Does he feel there is any type of comunication or relationship between the 3 types of alien he has witnessed. <Velez> Yes, always telepathic and occasionally 'empathic'?? *Ralf* John, tell us about the Phoenix Sightings (in short plz) <Velez> Yes, glad to. On March 13th of this year a single large (or several smaller objects flying in formation) were reported and videotaped over downtown Phoenix, Az. <Velez> the US air national guard claims that the sighting was attributable to 'flares' that were dropped over the Goldwater test range. <Velez> We know that it's blatant BS because we have video taken from several different vantage points. The objects were (over) Phoenix, and not 60 miles away as the Airforce claims.?? *Avenger*how did you find out that you had been abductd? <Velez> I read Budd Hopkins' "Missing time" it changed my life completely.?? *grump* For John: "Hi from a friend of Errol and Sue and Tom and Lise ... can you tell us how many times you have seen a UFO? Not abducted, just sightings?" <Velez> Keerist, gotta be over a dozen times by now. <Velez> I've been having more sightings in the last two years than ever before in my life.?? *Jez_UFO* Scars, scoops and now an 'inoperable' implant. Why hav'nt you paid for an X-ray/CAT scan? <Velez> Jez_UFO, CAT scans cost over $1200 american for a 'head shot! I'm a self employed working stiff, are you gonna pay for em? <G>?? *ctropics* Question: Could you elaborate on the alien agenda/purpose and further, is there indication that their existence will be made known to the public in near future? <Velez> 1. Purpose. No one knows their 'ultimate' purposes. I don't like to indulge in idle speculation. I'll await scientific inquiry before formulating an oppinion about that. <Velez> 2.Due to the increase in reported sightings worldwide and the dramatic increase in abduction reports I'd say yes.?? *UfatO* Could you please ask John. If the same craft was always used in his abductions, or did they differ in any way each time? <Velez> There have been different vehicles involved. <Velez> A small acorn shaped craft that only holds three, and larger varying types. ie; classic disc shaped objects and on one occasion a huge glowing pyramidal shaped affair.?? *forgiette* Velez..hello..(1). do you think the beings (aliens), are living among us at the present time? (2)..do you think we are desendents of the beings? (3). can u tell when the beings are here although you can't see them? <Velez> 1. Don't know. I suppose it's possible given the 'human' appearance of certain alien species that some have reported. <Velez> 2. Again, who knows? Questions that invite speculation are going to get a similar response.?? <Velez> 3. I can only remember bits and pieces of these experiences on a conscious level. I don't particularly trust what I've gotten thru hypnosis. I don't remember if they came everytime I got the heebie jeebies (feeling like they were there)?? <Nesssus> This question is from monkman who couldnt make it tonite: Have you heard of cerebrospinal fluid leaking from brain through nose (like a small clear nosebleed)?" <Velez> No, I haven't. Although if someone is leaking fluid from the brain pan I would imagine that death would be imminent. It's more likely an effusion of fluids from the sinus cavities. At least that makes more sense to me.?? *forgiette* Velez ..do you think abductees are being cloned? <Velez> Possible, but no one knows any of that for sure.?? *Gandalf1* question by me... have you or still being visitited by Men In Black?, if so in what way do they appear to you?, also could you just briefly describe the craft(s) you were taken on board during your abductions <Velez> I have never seen MIB's and I already discribed several craft in an earlier response. Check transcript later for answer to your question. ?? *rainee* Have you got any idea why they have chosen to abduct you or do you think it is purely random? <Velez> I think it has to do with my blood line. They appear to be following certain family trees.?? *UfatO* some people claim that they have been taken to a much larger craft by the initial smaller craft, have you any recollection of this happening to you John? <Velez> Yes, on two occasions.?? *pathFINDR* Do you ever remember seeing any egyptian glyphs during abduction, have your children undergone regression? <Velez> Yes to both. It wasn't egyptian looking. When I first saw it it looked like nothing I've ever seen before. A series of straight and sometimes curved lines, interspersed with dots.?? *forgiette* Velez..what is your imput on alien/gov't abductions? <Velez> Dr Greer from CSETI claims that the govenment is reponsible for up to 98 percent of the reported abductions! I think it's ludicrous to believe that the government is abducting citizens on the scale that the reports are coming in. <Velez> Although it is possible that certain intelligence agencies are keeping tabs on some of the more 'public' abduction advocates.?? *ctropics* are out-of-body experiences, assuming they are real, closely related to abduction experiences? <Velez> No, not at all. In an OOBE you look back and see your body in the bed, in abductions the person is missing. What we are having is, Out Of House Experiences! <G>?? *forgiette* Velez do u have any info about the 13 or more logzeners shapes in earth oceans, in regards of possible being/ufo bases <Velez> Sorry no.?? *magus* one of the things that has been the topic in the Undernet ufo channel lately has been that of "acceptable proof". We have seen photos, experiences personal memories, often have scars symbols to show for our involvment. BUT ... is or should there be a DEFINITION of "acceptiable proof" or will that always remain a very personal, non-tangiable thing or should it try to be defined ? <Velez> I think that an academic/scientific inquiry will shed much light on the nature of these events. <Velez> The problem is that few have been conducted and few are in the works. Abduction as a subject of inquiry is a problem for mainsteam scientists interested in protecting reputations and grant $.?? *pathFINDR* .A series of straight and sometimes curved lines, interspresed with dots.??<---sounds almost like Mayan Indices?? <Velez> you got me, what the hell are "Mayan Indices?" <G>?? *pathFINDR* used to record their history *pathFINDR* info only Mayan indices destroyed in major part by spaniards durind christian crusade only 3 remain the Dresden Index being the most famous. *UfatO* John, did you at any time see other abductees while aboard the craft? <Velez> No. But many others do report that.?? *Gandalf1* q? from me... I have seen you on a documantary being regressed by Budd, you said during that session that you saw your son... has he undergone regression to that event and what was the outcome.. ie was he there or not? <Velez> Yes, he underwent regression at his own request. Yes, (unfortunately) he was there.?? *magus* and on a related note ... should we ever even consider trying to proove ourselves, qualify ourselves, to non-understanding/non-receptive individuals (should've been combined with previous q?) <Velez> No. I tell the truth in as unembellished a way as I can. It is a matter of conscience with me that I report to my fellow creatures what is happening to me and my loved ones. What people do with that information afterwards is up to them. I have done what I had to do ?? *forgiette* Velez..after your abduction, for several days, do u feel out of reality in a sense that u know it has happened, but can't focuss due to the emotional haunting <Velez> Yes. It sticks in your head and replays itself over and over demanding attention.?? *Raine* John, is there any one particular place you seem to be or a certain time of day when you have an abduction experience? <Velez> No. Abductions can happen at just about anytime. The frequency is once or twice every couple or three years or so. <Velez> They have happened at home (and) outside as well.?? *rob* for John: How do you know you have an implant in your head if you haven't had a CAT scan? Do you have any evuidence or proof of it's existence? <Velez> No "proof". I remembered getting it. It was the only thing that I recalled from that event. But, I remembered it clearly. I even remember hearing the 'dull cruch' (bone) when he pushed the probe up my nose and deep into my head.?? *forgiette* Velez...this could sound far fetch, but, is it possible that all humans have wittnessed abductions? <Velez> I have no way to answer that question I'm sorry.?? *Avenger* "how did the Aliens treat you? do you see your abduction as a tragic event? <Velez> No, not at all. I see it as something that 'they' feel they have to do. They are 'doing a job' I don't think there is any 'intentional' harm or torture in it. <Velez> It is our own xenophobia that causes us to be traumatized.?? *UfatO* Have you ever been given a look into the future by the aliens eg, warnings regarding the Earths future? <Velez> I have been shown appocalyptic visions. Whether they are 'future events' or whether they are just testing me in some way I cannot say.?? *forgiette* Velez..nobody has ever seen God, what is your opinion on the being/alien is perhaps God. <Velez> God (in my belief system) is embodied in ALL THAT IS. And _not_ in any one species or thing. ALL THAT IS is GOD. My views are very pantheistic that way.?? *ctropics* thank you for your candid responses ..... Question: Have the aliens projected future events to you personally, i.e.... vast destruction and threat to the world and is this a common phenomena with other abductees? and if so what nature did it take? <Velez> Again, I want to preface my response by saying that no one knows for sure that we are being shown, "future events" <Velez> What I was party to was rescue missions involveing teams of humans and aliens piloting huge craft and saving people from the mass destruction. Make of that what you will.?? <Raine> I have read that you were shown 7 hybrids and told that they were your offspring, have you ever been shown them again at a more advanced stage? <Velez> No, although I feel a deep internal connection to them. They are partly mine. It's a sin to seperate offspring from biological parent, under ANY circumstances.?? *magus* considering ONLY abduction/contact experiences YOU have been involved with ... regardless of the persons perceptions .. have you viewed any of the experiences as INTENTIONALLY malicious ? <Velez> *Magus* No, none that I can recall. The 'terror' was coming from me not them.?? *ChromeB* Velez: do you think we were genetically engineered by aliens and "seeded" on this planet? Do u think they are muddling with our genes in abduction scenarios? <Velez> In answer to the question, yes and no. Again you ask me to 'speculate' and I dislike doing so in a public forum.?? *Lloydy* Why do you think your abductees were male in gender? <Velez> I have never said anything of the kind. <Velez> As for 'abductees' they are of all races, sexes, professions, sexual preference, you name it. The aliens aren't 'bigots' that's for sure! thank you all and good night.?? <Nesssus> Thank you very much for taking the time out to visit us John it has been a good meeting. <Gandalf1> I would like to thank Mr John Velez for taking the time to answer this MANY questions... you did a GREAT job keeping up with all... thanks a lot <Raine> John please feel free to come again, maybe under less stressful conditions, just as a regular user :) --------------------------------------------- There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are=20 timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of=20 no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Comparative Literature From: "R.Bull" <RAB@cadcentre.co.uk> [Robert Bull] Date: Mon, 04 Aug 97 14:51:00 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 21:38:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Comparative Literature >From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:55:28 -0700 >Subject: Comparative Literature >Hi All! >Does anyone know of any books, or even web pages, that >do a comparison between religous writings and ufology. >What I am looking for, is something that breaks down >the different influential appearances of "god" or >"angels", and also miracles, and compares these to >what we know today about ufos and abductions. >Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! >Sincerely, >Desiree Holloway - snake@mwaz.com And another one: Harpur, Patrick. (1995). Daimonic Reality. London: Penguin Arkana
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Crop Circle Connector #35 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 01:43:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 21:48:33 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #35 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #35 Members = 1983 What's New on the Crop Circle Connector. Monday 4th August 1997 Please see Crop Circles 1997 for the latest updates. at:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ***************************************************** NEW FORMATIONS! An explosion of formations across the region, stay online for the latest news as it happens!! East Field, Alton Barnes, Wiltshire. Two formations at Etchilhampton, Near Devizes. Three formations at Liddington Castle, Near Swindon. South of Warminster, Complex Dumbell!! Barbury Castle, Near Wroughton. Walkern, Near Stevenage, Hertfordshire. Formation near Marlborough. See Crop Circles 1997, this is not on What's New! *************************************************** Updated Oliver's Castle report, with new diagram and Aerial Image *************************************************** Updated Koch Fractal, Silbury Hill report New Diagram included. *************************************************** Updated Henwood Down The Ant report New Diagram included. ************************************************** Sarah's Circles report updated with Diagram at Woodborough Hill, Alton Barnes, with Aerial Shot included. These clusters of circles are a German experiment to communicate with the CIRCLEMAKERS!! ************************************************** Dutch CCCS Crop Circle Listing for 1997!! at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/dutch97/dcccs97.html Reinstalled. Praise for Mark on his efforts in compiling this list again!! ********************************************************************* The Crop Circle Connector is AGAIN asking its readers to support us by supporting our Crop Circle photographer Steve Alexander to continue to fly around the fields of England and bring you these beautiful images. Last week we sent you the ordering form as a word.doc zipped. Many readers have stated they were unable to unzip the file. So we are going to include in this Mailing List a text version of the form. Please Please Please fill in the order slip and send it off to Steve this week. ********************************************************************** ORDER FORM Please send to: 27 St Francis Road, Gosport, Hants. PO12 2UG England. PHOTOGRAPHIC SETS: Please state quantity of each set required in spaces below 1. 1994 set - 12 photographs (UK 10 - Overseas 12) (..........) [This set includes spectacular images such as The Web, The Galaxy and Scorpion formations.] 2. 1995 set - 20 photographs (UK 18 - Overseas 20) (..........) [This set includes many fantastic formations from 1995 such as The Asteriod Belts.] 3. 1996 set - 15 photographs (UK 15 - Overseas 17) (..........) [This set includes arguably the most amazing crop formations to date, such as the Stonehenge Julia Set, Windmill Hill Triple Julia Set and The DNA Double Helix.] 4. COLLECTORS SET - 30 photographs (UK 30 - Overseas 32) [This is a special collection of all the best images from 1994, 1995 & 1996] (..........) *Postage is inclusive for orders of sets SPECIAL OFFER Order any 3 sets & recieve a free set of 10 postcards. If you would like to order Individual 6x4 photographs at 1 each please state how many you require in space: (..........) *Postage inclusive for UK / Overseas orders please add 2 for each order not each photograph If you would like specific photographs of any crop formation please give details below, including location and year: (....................................................................... ......................... ...................................)(................................... ......................... ........................................................................ ...) If you need more space please use back of this form. NEW! THERE ARE NOW PHOTOGRAPHS AVAILABLE FROM 1997 - WE'VE ALREADY HAD AN AMAZING START TO THE SEASON Please state how many 6x4s you require (..........) 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Analysis of lights vs flares From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:57:49 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 21:49:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Analysis of lights vs flares From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Monday, 4 August 1997 12:56pm MT Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 20:37:40 -0400 Subject: Analysis of lights vs flares > After reading Rebecca's comments concerning "smoke" seen in one > of the videos (we are not sure which one), we examined the Kryston, > King, and Raerden footage again and saw not a wisp (excuse the pun) > of evidence of smoke. Just to make this clear, it is my contention (based on no special knowledge) that SMOKE would NOT be visible on a videotape if the videographer was as far away from the flares as these people would have had to have been. I don't think there is any video of smoke from the flares. Period. Prove me wrong, Kal. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Ecuador UFO Photo From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Aug 97 22:33:07 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 22:49:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Ecuador UFO Photo >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 10:13:37 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Picture of UFO from Ringold, Georgia The still image that John Velez posted from Ecuador is from a video shot there in 1995, and shown on the Kiviat/Fox TV special last Monday night. I'm 99% sure that this is nothing more than a hot air balloon flying at night. I've attended and photographed several hot air balloon meets, and have seen them fly at dusk and just after dark, although I don't think they are allowed to fly after dark these days (here in the USA anyway). The gas fire which heats the air lights up the bottom of the balloon just as seen in this photo, and the other lights are probably lights to make the balloon visible to aircraft. I wonder if anyone has checked with hot air balloon groups in Ecuador. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Errata regarding "Politics of UFOs" From: SGBList1@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 22:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:01:57 -0400 Subject: Errata regarding "Politics of UFOs" List members: In an earlier post I gave incorrect information regarding an upcoming netshow on MSN's Project Watchfire. The program on the "Politics of UFOs" begins at 8 p.m., not 9 p.m. est. Jacques Vallee will not be live - previous Vallee material will be available on streaming video in the Briefing area during the day. My apology. Re: Project Watchfire netshow on the "Politics of UFOs" When: August 5, 8 p.m. est (new show every Tuesday evening) Where: Project Watchfire website: www.watchfire.msn.com/watchfire Guests: Stephen Bassett, consultant and lobbyist On Video: Earlier Jacques Vallee interviews Stephen Bassett Paradigm Research Group Bethesda, MD
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 22:48:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:07:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Regarding... >Date: 03 Aug 97 09:55:13 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Bob Shell wrote: >Ah, yes. But we all know how you treat information given to you in >"complete confidence", now don't we?????? <VBEG> Good Lord, Bob, you're not dredging up the tedious Hesemann and Mantle payola scandal. Why were they asked about payments received from Ray Santilli? Because you were miffed about the money which Hesemann had been boasting that Mantle and himself were making, you weren't getting a "fair share" and you wanted that known. When the subject was brought up and Hesemann's recollections were less that "accurate", wasn't it Bob Shell who agreed that the issue couldn't be dropped. You were away on business during much of the latter dialogue, or diatribe in Hesemann's case, and perhaps missed this correspondence with Hesemann: Michael, A statement from Rebecca Schatte which I can pass on: I understand that there is some confusion as to who claimed what concerning Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle having been paid a sum of $10,000. by Ray Santilli for their work on the autopsy footage. For the record, I would like to state that I was told that Michael and Philip were each paid $10,000. for their work. I was told this on Saturday April 13, 1996. I have no idea if it is true or not but I do know the person who made the claim is someone who is close to and respected by both Philip and Michael. This person was completely serious when he told me this (or else the claimant is a damn good actor) and for the life of me I can not understand why this person would make this up. I would love to reveal the name but I will not. I'm sure that the claimant is aware of the situation and if that person would like to speak up, this would probably be a good time. [End] Wasn't this specific information actually given by someone to whom you had never indicated it was confidential? Yes, it was. And were you not offered several suggestions about how I might help you resolve this diplomatically and amicably? Yes, you were. When Hesemann finally acknowledged his payment, was it because either Rebecca or I told him you were the complainant? No, it wasn't, it was because you finally got around to it. Philip apparently didn't receive the claimed payment anyway and Hesemann's story is a rather lengthy explanation of how he wasn't actually paid the money which he was. Your mess and if either of your colleagues are somewhat dismayed to see this resurface, I wouldn't be surprised. >In complete confidence I had suggested to Ray that he not trust you >with any information of a confidential nature. And you believed Ray had suddenly taken you seriously? You're a day late and a dollar short, as they say. I signed a non-disclosure agreement with Ray Santilli in August 1995. It didn't take long to realise there was effectively nothing significant to disclose. Guess you eventually figured that out too. Not! If you ever have any "archive alien autopsy film" to examine, I'm sure it will still be of interest. In the meantime, don't call us.... James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 22:48:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:08:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Regarding... >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:00:38 -0400 >From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Theresa wrote: >Who says Chris Cary was in Hollywood with a reel of autopsy film? Theresa, As noted in "The Manikin Who Fell to Earth" article, this should of course be Gary Shoefield rather than Chris Cary. Although Ray provided copies of all the correspondence with the various Kodak offices, a letter from Cate is addressed directly to Ray and doesn't confirm who Cate originally spoke with. The sole confirmation seems to be in Maurice Chittenden's Sunday Times article, when he names the two people who spoke to Cate as being Shoefield and Don Linck, an American film producer. The only person who I know has claimed it was a reel of "autopsy" film is Bob Shell and he clearly has no idea what the reel may have contained. Incidentally, Cate described it as a "piece of film" and it wasn't perhaps an actual reel. Mr Santilli was at pains to point out it was "film with image" which Cate had examined. When I asked Ray if he could confirm what the images were claimed to show, he didn't and to my knowledge, never has. However, in a letter to Peter Milson at Kodak, Hemel Hempstead, he does claim it was "the safety release print" which Cate handled. The safety release print of what, he fails to say. Unfortunately, worthless as evidence, as were the blank frames which were offered elsewhere. >Cate did state that a reel of old 16mm film was brought in, in an old >film canister, and that he unrolled some to check the edge codes but >didn't look at the image. Yes, as I mentioned, Cate had confirmed this when interviewed two years ago. As you appreciate, the bottom line is that none of the sample 16mm frames provided by Ray Santilli contain an image from the "autopsy", "debris" or "tent" sequences which exist on video. Neither have Kodak verified any of that video footage as dating from 1947, an obvious impossibility as they have never, and will never, be given any corresponding "archive" film to scientifically analyse. This hasn't prevented Mr Santilli claiming that Kodak have in fact verified the film's authenticity, but all of this has been of little, if any, consequence. As Ray says, "the film has run its course". The circus has pulled out of town. I just have this funny feeling it will be back. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 4 New Automatic Indexing Feature on Web Archive From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:48:31 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:37:18 -0400 Subject: New Automatic Indexing Feature on Web Archive The UFO UpDates mailing list has been archived on the Ufomind server since mid-December. (See www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/) The archive lets users browse through messages by date, and it also provides a stable, linkable address for each message. One problem, however, is that past messages are difficult to locate, since there has been no reliable way to index messages by topic. Now an automatic system has been provided to add new messages to the Ufomind index pages. All a message author needs to do is include a Ufomind URL at the end of his message, and the link will be automatically added to that page. This feature is optional, and not all messages need to be indexed, but it makes future access much easier. The added line, appearing at the bottom of your message, must be in the following form. Index: wxw.ufomind.com/ufo/place/us/nm/roswell/testimony/ (In these samples, I have deliberately replaced "www" with "wxw" to prevent these sample lines from being processed in the web version. You should use "www" instead.) This line should normally be the last line of your message, but it can be a few lines up from the bottom if your signature forces it there. The system only works for the Ufomind server: www.ufomind.com, so don't try to put any other server name after "Index: ". You can also insert "http://" before it, but this is superfluous. (BTW: "http://" is no longer required to make a URL "hot" in the body of a message, so long as the URL begins with "www.".) When the message is stored on the web server, the URL above is replaced by the name of the Ufomind page and a hot-link to it.... Index: _Roswell Testimony_ An entry is then added to the index page referring back to the message. The link is now "reciprocal": The message refers to the index page, and the index page refers to the message. More than one "Index:" line is allowed, but usually one or two lines are sufficient -- three at most. For example, a certain message regarding, say, Kevin Randle's evaluation of Philip Corso might have the following at the bottom.... Index: wxw.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/corso/ Index: wxw.ufomind.com/ufo/people/r/randle/ You don't want to "over-index" your message by including too many index lines, because this dilutes the value of the the index pages. For example, there is no need to reference the Roswell Incident page (www.ufomind.com/ufo/place/us/nm/roswell/), since both Corso & Randle are already linked there. In general, you should add an entry for only the single "best" index page -- i.e. the most specific one. For an example of an active index link, see the bottom of this message. Also see the recently posted message: "BLM Directions for Roswell Crash Sites." The indexing system has been operational for several weeks on the Area 51 mailing list (www.ufomind.com/area51/list/) and the Ufomind mailing list (www.ufomind.com/misc/), so you can see those for further examples. WHAT SHOULD BE INDEXED? To be indexed, a message must contain SIGNIFICANT DATA, not just opinions, queries or minor responses to previous messages. The key question is, "Will this message still be useful a year from now?" If the message does not seem to hold any lasting data that we will want to refer to again in isolation, then it should not be indexed. I guess that less than 1/4 of UFO UpDates messages are appropriate for indexing. (We'll see.) I am very cautious about indexing copyrighted articles (from AP, Reuters, etc.). To avoid eventual legal problems, I don't want too many of them to end up on my server, and I don't want to depend on those that do. If you post such an article to the list, try to include a URL for its original location (at a newspaper's website usually) at the top of the document. This gives me the option of indexing that URL instead of the posted message. All messages, even if not indexed, will still be accessible by date. Responses to messages (i.e. "Re:" messages) are usually available by using the search-by-email and "This Day's Messages" options at the bottom of the main message, and in the future I may provide more advanced tools for finding threads. Thus, you do not need to index most "Re:" responses, only the most significant of them. The definition of "significant data" is subject to debate and is ultimately determined by Errol and myself. The Ufomind server is concerned with data about UFO cases but it is also interested in personalities (i.e. Who can you trust?). In general, expressions of opinion are not worth indexing (because there are so many of them), but if a researcher really gets upset about something, the message might be worth saving on his "unofficial" index page just to show his style and what is important to him. HOW IT WORKS -- Message authors may "nominate" their messages for indexing by adding their own index line to the bottom of their message. (Nomination is an important step, because finding the appropriate URL on the Ufomind site requires some effort, and if the author doesn't choose to look it up, then he is saying that he does not care about it being indexed.) -- The mailing list moderator (Errol) has the right to overrule the indexing choice, by adding an index line, removing the author's line or changing the URL to one he believes is more appropriate. Errol continues to have full control over the content of the mailing list. -- Once a message has been approved and has been added to the website, an entry is automatically added in the target index page. An approval request is then queued to the Ufomind webmaster (me) for approval. I have full discretion to remove, modify or move the index entry in whatever manner I feel is most useful. The idea is to preserve references to the most useful documents without watering down the list with superfluous links. (The webmaster, like the moderator, will no doubt piss some people off with his choices, but that is his job.) -- If an entry is removed from an index page by the webmaster, the message itself will remain unchanged and will continue to refer to the original index page. In other words, the presence of an "Index:" line does not guarantee a reciprocal link; it is only a request. -- Past messages in the archive may only be indexed by hand, using the Add-a-Link feature at the bottom of index pages. New messages that do not get indexed on the first pass may also be indexed by hand, but there will not be any reciprocal link at the bottom of the message. We encourage any users who have idle time to go through past messages and index the most interesting ones. Otherwise, these messages may be forgotten. INDEXING ASSURES PRESERVATION There are currently no plans to delete older postings, and I hope to retain the full UFO UpDates archive indefinitely. However, as messages accumulate over the years, I may be forced to delete some messages, and those will be the ones that are not indexed. If a message is successfull indexed, then I guarantee that it will be preserved forever (as much as I can guarantee anything forever in this crazy mixed-up world of ours). OTHER INFORMATION Future system features may give the author and moderator more control over where on the index page a link is inserted, instead of always at the end. Please contact me if you would like me to create a new index page -- either for a topic or a person. Such requests may take me up to several days to process (depending on my workload). In the meantime, use the index page that seems closest. When the new page has been created, you can request that the link be moved (via the "Report Bad Link/Special" option at the bottom of index pages). FINANCIAL SUPPORT: The Ufomind website is supported by advertizing for the books we sell. (The Research Center needs to feed itself somehow, but users can rest assured that we ain't getting rich.) Advertizing is inserted in the headers and footers of index pages, but not in the UFO UpDates section (apart from a simple link to our catalog). If you find our free web services useful, please check out our catalog. Glenn +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | U F O M I N D - M O T H E R S H I P | | "World's Largest and Best Organized UFO Website" * | | *** | | GLENN CAMPBELL - Ship's Captain & Acting Commander ***** | | ******* | | Area 51 Research Center campbell@ufomind.com ********* | | Las Vegas Annex http://www.ufomind.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Index: UFO UpDates Rules & Policies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: UFOs and Professional Associations From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 02:43:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 08:51:51 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:27:37 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOs and Professional Associations > >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:45:02 -0400 > >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > >To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: UFOs and Professional Associations > <Mucho snippo> Dear Dennis, Too bad you snipped out some of the real fun stuff; which addresses the internecine fighting amongst the intelligence services which bears on why people with affiliations like Pflock are attacking Corso, letting Pflock get off too easily and leaving you to act as a front for him. > >I think one has to be wary of letting Pflock's > >emotionalism bias one against reading what > >Corso has to say and certainly not allow > >Pflock's attack to disuade one from > >at least considering Corso's viewpoint. > >Gary > Dear Gary: > I, too, think everyone ought to consider Corso's viewpoint without > regard to Pflock's. I did, and here's just a little of what I found. > 1) Corso places Marcel at the crash site where bodies were recovered, > an incident Marcel himself never mentioned or even hinted at, despite > being interviewed numerous times before his death. Corso makes clear that he was not present at Roswell and that he has heard several stories about the events which took place there. He also relates that although they may have differed in details this could be accounted for by their originating from different individuals. Dennis you know this from reading the book yet you intentionally state that "Corso places Marcel at the crash site" when this is not in fact true. I will quote the book here The Day After Roswell (TDAR) page 3 - Corso states, "The stories about the Roswell crash vary from one another in details. Because I wasn't there, I've had to rely on reports of others, even within the military itself." <some Corso text skipped> "And I've heard different people argue the dates and back and forth, establishing time lines that vary from one another in details, but all agree that something crashed in the desert outside of Roswell and near enough to the army's most sensitive installations at Alamogordo and White Sands that it caused the army to react quickly and with concern as soon as it found out." Yes Dennis what you have made is a clear case that you will mis-represent even material which can be quoted from a book inorder to promote your viewpoint and/or agenda. > 2) Corso has a truck convoy carrying alien bodies to Wright Field > stop over in Fort Riley, Kansas, where he "conveniently" catches > a glimpse of one of the bodies. Every other alleged eyewitness > has always testified that the debris and bodies were flown to > Wright Field. You impugn Corso's credibility without being able to offer proof yourself that he is wrong. Do you know the true number of aliens at Roswell? You do know that the various accounts differ. Why would you favor the other alleged eyewitness accounts over Corso's? > 3) Corso can't even get the number of alien fingers right. In one > place he refers to four, in another six. You are absolutely right Dennis. Also this absolutely shows how you dissemble by mis-representing material from the book by means of selective quoting and innuendo. On page 32 Corso says that the alien he saw at Fort Riley had four fingers. On page 78 Corso describes how when "reporters were actually given truthful descriptions of alien encounters, they either fell to the floor laughing or sold the story to the tabloids, who'd print a drawing of a large-headed, almond-eyed, six-fingered alien." And so you dissemble again. Corso clearly states that it is the tabloids who get the number of fingers wrong. But you clearly knew this as you are reading the same text. > 4) Corso claims that all the other services had their debris > specimens as well, but that the Army's apparently languished > in a Pentagon file cabinet for 14 years, gathering dust, until > the Great Corso arrived on the scene, and unlocked all their > pent-up secrets. What he's saying here is that some > of the world's greatest minds (don't forget MJ-12 or the UFO group) > hadn't been able to accomplish diddley until he showed up and > solved the problem virtually overnight. What an unrecognized genius! More baseless insults without substance when in fact the book and the public record explain otherwise. Corso makes it clear that he was not the only person to undertake the study of and distribution of the Army's artifacts. In fact Corso makes the point on page 79 that it was originally General Twinning that had suggested that the alien materials be developed in the "foreign technology" research channel. Moreover Denis from reading Corso's book you know that he offers an explanation on pp. 80-85 in some detail as to how the exploitation of the artifacts faltered over the years. Corso attributes that faltering to fragmentation of effort and the military's discovery that "they really couldn't trust the career intelligence people, especially the CIA, because they seemed to have a different agenda". No wonder your friend Pflock dropped out of the discussion and let you front for him. Also Corso went on the public record in his interview of 7/6/97 on Art Bell in which he discussed what he knew about the handling of the Roswell material by his predecessors and successors. The answer he offers at least publicly is not too much due to compartmentalization of information. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with that military and intelligence process. > 5) Corso shamelessly name drops throughout the book; > "fortunately," virtually everyone he names turns out to be > seriously deceased, including his superior officer, > Gen. Arthur Trudeau. The book would have been better > titled "Waiting for Trudeau -- To Die." One really has to ask what your agenda is here. What is shameless name dropping? Do you find it hard to understand that someone with his background would know a few people. Would you deny that as an Army Intelligence Colonel stationed in Washington, working at the Pentagon, working on the National Security Council, advisor to chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee wouldn't know some names worth dropping? As regards everyone being seriously deceased, have you ever looked at cohort survival statistics for 82 year old white males? Moreover its even less likely that his superior officers, likely older, would be alive just because you wish it were so. Besides you also know from the public record that Corso has claimed that he was not bound by any security agreement from revealing the information he has to date. The only inhibition he has stated was a verbal agreement with his superior officer, Gen. Arthur Trudeau, not to discuss the material until either one of them died. So yes in fact it was a necessary condition that the material could not be released until after Trudeau died. Much of the security arrangements arranged by Gen. Groves in the Manhattan Project were verbal. The Army Counter Intelligence Corp handled security for that operation, Gen. Trudeau also seems to have used verbal agreements with Corso. That seems to upset you or your handlers. > 6) Corso makes himself out to be the greatest individual who > ever lived -- ultimately responsible not only for lasers and the > integrated circuit, etc., but Star Wars and the dissolution of > the Soviet Union. Oh, I forgot, he also saved us and the world > from the evil aliens. Apparently, they had been intending to > invade for something like the last 50 years, but just never got > around to it. Now that Corso has singlehandedly turned the > technological tables on them, I guess it's back to plan B, > or is that Plan 9 From Outer Space? More mis-representation on your part. I think you'll have to read the book. More of the character assasination and innuendo technique here, one must really wonder why. > 7) As equally significant as what Corso does say, is what > he doesn't say. The ultimate insider's insider offers not > a single shred of new evidence to support any of his claims. > Virtually everything in his book could have been > put together with the already existing Roswell literature and > an active imagination -- either on Corso's part, or that of > his co-author. What would you consider a shred of new evidence? You know that a loyal security abiding individual would not be retaining classified materials. So it seems to me you are asking for what you know an insider going public as an individual cannot provide. I can't see how I can dignify you last statement in the paragraph with a reply. > 8) Nor does what we know about the Thurmond Foreward affair > enhance the author's credibility. If Corso's version of the > event is the correct one, he should be able to easily document it. > If not, it tells us that whatever else > Corso may be, he is certainly no stranger to deception. The so called Foreword affair was the non-event of the year. Not much is really known about it? Except that I might note that none other than Senator Strom Thurmond did copyright his foreword, that's right after the title page in case you didn't see it. Moreover Corso and Birnes have gone on record stating that they do have letter(s) from Thurmond authorizing the use of the foreword in the book on Roswell. Besides there is Corso's discussion on pages 252-253 that Senator Thurmond was made privy to Corso's "nut" (Roswell )file by General Trudeau and no one has challenged that contention! More likely the so called affair, which I would call a tempest in a teapot, really represents different groups jousting once again over how information is to be leaked. > And no, I don't work for the CIA or any other government > intelligence agency now, nor have I ever. I do have a > sensitive nose, however, and The Day After > Roswell reeks of the scent of money. I never raised the question as to whether you worked for the CIA or other government intelligence agency. Nor do I really care. However most of the action these days takes place in the non-governmental, proprietary or private sector firms which perform investigative or intelligence services or serve as cover organization for the same, organizations like MUFON which are likely to have either cooperative arrangements with intelligence organizations or allow "agents in place" to function. One might think that after having read the policy planning statement issued by Mr. Charles Swett, Assistant for Strategic Assessment,Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict. In his STRATEGIC ASSESSMENT: THE INTERNET of July 17, 1995 he took particular note of MUFON as an organization which bore careful watching because it "has its own computer network with a gateway to the Internet. Much of the traffic on this network refers to U.S. military operations that members believe relate to investigations and cover-ups of UFO-related incidents, and other messages contain details on MUFON's efforts to conduct surveillance of DoD installations and to obtain information on UFOs that they believe exists in classified form." When I read Mr. Sweets assessment I was very concerned. I gather you and your organization warrant careful watching. As a patriotic and loyal citizen I am glad to know that they have you under a watchful eye. I am glad to know that your board of directors does include people with an intelligence background who can serve as a back channel to make sure your organization doesn't inadvertently compromise our national security. Dennis I would like to point out to you that Colonel Corso is not very likely to need much money, has very little reason to show himself up as a transparent liar and so more than likely Corso has another reason for "going public." Given that the history of the UFO phenomenon is replete with what could well be "strategic leaking" on the part of our military and the "intelligence agencies," there is every reason to suspect that this is another example of same. . .and not some cheap trick by a retired military man with a good pension and a high security clearance. I think that this is one place we can apply the theory of parsimony to good effect. That is, when you look at ALL the relevant information, in context, there really is only ONE answer: The book is an authorized leak of some kind. Now, the problem is, what kind of "leak" is it, that is, what purpose does it have? Dennis I think that you, a studied debunker of U.S. intelligence-agency involvement in the UFO phenomenon, will simply pooh-pooh my response, or tag-team it over to Pflock or another of your debunking friends who will let me have it. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Dupont & Casault Form New Organization In Quebec From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:43:04 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 09:03:55 -0400 Subject: Dupont & Casault Form New Organization In Quebec Forwarded from the Ufomind mailing list: http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1997/aug/d04-003.shtml From: campbell@ufomind.com,Internet Subject: UFOMIND: Dupont & Casault form new organization in Quebec To: Stig Agermose ufomind@lists.best.com,Internet Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 12:27:32 -0700 From: Helene Dupont <"casault@magi.com"@mail.magi.com> To: webmaster@ufomind.com Subject: A new organization in Quebec Please note that the well known Quebecker ufologist JEAN CASAULT is back in business since 1995. JEAN CASAULT is the founder of the SRPM (do not exist anymore) in 1966. He wrote 3 books in French in 1972-78-81. He founded the magazine AFFA (69-75). For twenty years JEAN CASAULT specialised himself in hypnosis, study of metaphysics, religions and spiritual matters. After exchanging correspondance with Budd Hopkins, Strieber and John Mack, JEAN CASAULT has decided to bring back his expertises in UFO. My name is Helen Dupont, I am an computer specialist and I have provided JEAN CASAULT with a platfom to exercise his competences. It is called the CEIPI (in english it would sound like Center of Study and Information of Unexplained Phenomena) Founded in November 1995, the CEIPI is headed by JEAN CASAULT: 175 active members, 10 investigators, a monthly 30 page newsletter and we have published a 308 book lately called LES EXTRATERRESTRES - Publisher Quebecor, Montreal. Many investigations are in route and many abduction reports are under very rigourus scrutiny. The CEIPI is in HULL (near Ottawa) at Val Tetreau CP 77009 HULL QC J9A 2V4 CANADA, (819 778-1818) http://infoweb.magi.com/~casault JEAN CASAULT and CEIPI is now the biggest organization in Quebec after only two years of operation. Two senior investigators are with us, Gilles Latour, a research expert, and Denis Marquis who used to work as an insurance investigator. Thank you very much Helene Dupont president and founder of CEIPI ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 UFOSearch #9 part 3/4: Science, From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 01:17:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 08:48:09 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #9 part 3/4: Science, This is part three of the ninth essay by UFOSearch. This essay is being published for the first time on the UFO UpDate mail list. NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. If you would like to correspond with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com Commentary: My readers may remember that in the introduction to part one of this essay I promised that the author would "tread where most writers on the UFO phenomenon don't dare". In part three we venture into the hall of mirrors, where people are not always who they seem to be and very little is certain except uncertainty. Some readers may be offended by inferences made by the author; however, those offended should be carefully read the fine print in the Notes section before setting phasers on stun! Gary Alevy -------------------------------------------------------------- Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Val Germann Columbia, Missouri (C) 1997 Part Three of Four The Counterintelligence Use Of Research And Analysis In Small-Scale UFO Investigations In Parts 1 & 2 of this series I outlined my reasons for adopting a counterintelligence (CI) model for UFO research. In a nutshell, I maintained that the assumptions of science about an objective universe were made null and void if another intelligence were in fact operating here on the Earth with us. I concluded that because of this fundamental problem UFO researchers needed more than science, they needed counter- intelligence. I then went on to show that here in America human CI is a very complicated affair, involving not only our intelligence agencies but even academics at famous colleges and universities, all united (from time to time) in domestic spying operations against U.S. citizens. Part Two of this series ended with a statement concerning a needed investigation of the elites of human society, economic, social and military. Thus here in Part Three we will return to the "people" aspect of CI and how that relates to the UFO arena. The method here will be a version of "Research & Analysis" (R&A) as used by the Office Of Strategic Services (OSS) during World War II. Then, in Part Four, I will evaluate scenarios that are purported to explain the phenomena we associate with the "UFO." Research & Analysis The history of OSS' Research & Analysis section in association with UFO investigation is relevant to several ways, some that are not obvious. [18] Important to me is the fact that the OSS was overwhelmingly 1) male; 2) middle-class to upper- middle class and 3) white. If the preceding does not sum up the prevailing social mix in "ufology" today then I do not know what does. American ufology is solidly white and middle- class in its world view and general social ideology, which can be a huge problem. That is, some of the general obtuseness one can sometimes find in white, middle-class society can lead to blind spots in certain very important areas relevant to UFO research. One of these blind-spots we have already discussed, that is the "intelligence community" penetration of UFO groups in the past. This subject is simply not ever broached in the upper (more academic) reaches of ufology. [19] But it goes far beyond this. Certain topics have in the past been "a priori" ruled out for years by mainstream "ufology" and its middle-class, sometimes- blinkered outlook. The whole subject of direct human/alien interaction is an example here. [20] Also, the concerns of one-half of the human race, women, are only now getting any consideration at all. We will be returning to this aspect in our scenario analysis in Part Four. In any event, what do you suppose the chances are that the "UFO operators" share the values of middle-class, suburban, white, middle-aged men? I would think they're very small, wouldn't you? It is because of the above considerations that we must be very careful in using R&A in the UFO arena. We must not let our human social biases narrow our field. And when it comes to analysis, we must keep as wide an angle of view as possible. We must never forget that the "UFO" could be more mysterious than we can handle no matter how careful we are. So, we must be VERY careful. Early in the book CLOAK & GOWN, the author states that: "Research and analysis are at the heart of intelligence." This is because R&A can provide 90 to 95 percent of the relevant information (even in wartime) and it is this information that provides the context for the "secret intelligence" (documents and such) ferreted out by spies and agents in place. Without R&A "secret documents" cannot speak, cannot be interpreted, certainly not correctly. Beyond even this, at the very core of top-secret programs there usually ARE NO DOCUMENTS, as was true of the Manhattan Project, where the most secret orders were verbal, a deliberate policy decision on the part of General Groves. Security for the Manhattan Project was provided by the Army Counter Intelligence Corps, it is the Corp personnel who figure prominently in the events surrounding the Roswell incident.[21] Many people believe that there exists a "magic bullet" in the form of "secret documents" that spell out in plain English what is going on at the secret heart of some clandestine government project. But this is hardly ever true and the search for such a holy grail can be a wasteful distraction from the hard work of research and analysis, without which it is impossible to evaluate any "secret document," should you ever actually find one. It is the function of counterintelligence R&A to sift out the: 1) interesting; 2) significant; and 3) correct information from the flood of material generated in the world at any given time. This is not easy, during peace or war. And if an opponent is putting out false or misleading information (misinformation or disinformation), well, the problems are compounded. As practiced by the Office of Strategic Services, Research and Analysis consisted of collectors, evaluators, scenario men and, finally, report producers. It began with a survey of what already existed, which, as it turned out, wasn't much, and then went on to collect what its resident scholars thought necessary. Here was the crucial first step: What To Collect? Well, at first you try to collect everything! Thus OSS was trying to index and collate thousands of pages of information per DAY by the end of 1941. By the middle of 1942 they were contracting out various collection jobs to civilian universities, such as Stanford, Cal Berkeley, Columbia, Princeton and Yale. No surprise here since the overwhelming majority of OSS men were from the Ivy League, and most of them from Yale. History and economics dominated the OSS R&A bureau. The crying need was for an estimate of the capabilities of the enemy countries and where those capabilities lay. For instance, the invasion of North Africa in 1942 required an enormous effort on the part of OSS in collecting and distributing information to the military on the geography of the place, as well as on the culture and societies of the people who lived there. This type of thing was in constant demand throughout the war as U.S. forces pushed their way around the globe. The denizens of R&A did some amazing things. Using the serial numbers from destroyed German tanks and combining them with information garnered from the German press (smuggled to the U.S. through Sweden and Norway), OSS was able to determine with great accuracy the numbers of German tanks produced. The German press also gave information about the Eastern Front from the obituaries it published as the war proceeded. The R&A economists were able to use open sources to determine which rail lines the Germans were using to ship petroleum, and fighter bombers were vectored to those lines using that information. The output of R&A was an important check on the information produced using electronic and human intelligence in World War II. That is, material returned by spies could have been (and sometimes WAS) part of a deception campaign, as could have been intercepted radio signals. The picture built up by R&A gave the analysts of OSS an independent way to judge the accuracy of secret intelligence, something of overwhelming importance during a shooting war. At the higher levels of the OSS debates were conducted on the nature of R&A itself and about the relevance of "objectivity." Some held that the collector and analyst should hold no beliefs at all and make no judgments, a position that Arthur Schlesinger thought was nonsense since all good research involved both. Many within R&A held that the independent judgment of one analyst, who had steeped himself in the subject, was the most reliable method to determine such imponderables as "intentions from capabilities" vis-a-vis a particular nation. Research and analysis is the technique that most closely resembles what the lone UFO investigator can do. He can steep himself in the subject, try to collect everything relevant, and then be fearless in where that material leads him. This may sound like "no big deal," but for those who take the work seriously it is anything but trivial. In many cases the information relevant to the UFO can lead down rabbit holes where no respectable person would want to go. But down the hole the investigator he must go or he will not have the perspective needed to judge the relevance of information. As for me, I began serious UFO work in 1987 and by the end of 1991 I had assembled a great deal of information into a UFO chronology, a "chron" in intelligence terms. This was to prove very useful indeed in organizing information and evaluating the constant stream of material produced in the UFO field. By the beginning of 1992 I had examined several hundred books (buying more than 250 for a personal library) and had read hundreds of articles in various journals and magazines. I also had performed a few small-scale investigations and followed up local leads whenever I could. It took about three years for this to reach "critical mass" and I could at last begin writing small essays that made sense both to me and to others. As I continued this research I began to wonder about the back- grounds of the well-known figures in the UFO arena. My look into U.S. intelligence had shown that most of these people were alumni of one elite school or another and that many of them were well- born, even wealthy. Would the "UFO men" fit in with this group? That is, were those prominent in UFO investigation mostly associated with small public colleges or state universities, and during World War II were most of them ROTC cadets or enlisted men who had served in military backwaters -- or were they a lot more interesting than that? Could they even BEGIN to fit into the group of government employees and academics we have already looked at in this paper, those high up in the world of secret science, intelligence and counterintelligence? I had no idea. But if it were true that the "UFO men" resembled "somebodies" and not "nobodies," well, that was significant. Thus, when I began my background work it was mainly for the record. That is, I had no particular reason to think that their histories would be all that interesting, but it was something that had to be done. Well, I was in for a little surprise as I began to gather biographical information about the careers of those prominent in the UFO world, where they went to school and who they had worked for, at least publicly. Among the elite institutions in American science are Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Cal Tech, M.I.T. and The University of Chicago. All of them have significant connections into the world of intelligence and counter- intelligence. In England the elite schools are at Cambridge and Oxford where the connections into British military intelligence are equally strong. All of the U.S. institutions above were founded all or in part by wealthy donors and ALL are supported by the Foundation System, an interlocking group of agencies, backed by huge blocks of stock in our largest corporations, which truly rules the roost in academia today. [22] Of the public figures associated with UFOs, I was surprised to find that many, many of them had, not degrees from some state university (as I do) but sheepskins from these named elite institutions, as well as contacts in the world of secret science and counterintelligence. These connections clearly show, to those who will take the time to look, that U.S. science serves a dual role in our culture and very often finds its practitioners doing things that would shock and even horrify the rest of us. None of this was generally known until the 1970s and Watergate, which opened many doors. Those we discuss below may be heroes, they may be villains, we don't really know yet, nor can we know. We are in the realm of counterintelligence and it is often not possible to know if someone's public persona is in fact the TRUE person! And don't forget that the winners write the history, making the glass sometimes very dark indeed. We can start with Donald Menzel (Harvard), who was a famous solar astronomer and a top-secret National Security Agency consultant [23] at the same time he was excoriating Donald Keyhoe (himself an Annapolis graduate and long-time government official) and other "believers" in UFOs. [24] We can continue with Allen Hynek, who was closely associated with Menzel academically, and who spent time both at Johns Hopkins (where he worked on the top secret proximity fuse) and at the University Of Chicago, where he got his PhD. [25] Hynek's secret investigations of his fellow astronomers are now matters of public record. For years he headed the satellite trackers for the Smithsonian Institution and thus was the one the press and Congress asked about those UFO reports from the tracking network, which were always denied. As mentioned earlier, Hynek was number two in the mid-1950s Moonwatch Program, in which hundreds of civilians tracked satellites using small telescopes. Dr. James McDonald accused Hynek of lying to Congress about the capabilities of the 1960s radar satellite tracking network, linked to NORAD and the military. Dr. La Paz, meteor expert at New Mexico State University and a military consultant, also accused Hynek of being part of a large-scale cover-up, in the wake of the Zamorra affair in 1964. [26] Jacques Vallee, trained in France in astronomy, came to the USA in the 1960s and was a protege of Allen Hynek for many years. Vallee became interested in computers early in his career and has worked in computing for Northwestern, Shell Oil and Stanford, where, at Stanford existed a node of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency Network, DARPAnet, which became, over time, you guessed it, the InterNet. [27] Dr. James McDonald was an M.I.T. grad, taught at Chicago and had secret Navy projects on his resume when he died. [28] Well-known ufologist Ivan Sanderson was a Navy counterintelligence officer during World War II and had earned a degree from Cambridge. [29] Charles Berlitz (Bermuda Triangle, Philadelphia Experiment) was independently wealthy, earned a degree from Yale and was in the U.S. Counter Intelligence Corps during World War II. [30] Thornton Page, member of the Robertson Committee and a secret scientist, got his degree from Oxford, in England, and then taught at the University of Chicago. During World War II he was a Commander in the U.S. Navy. [31] Silas Newton, a source for Scully's composite character Dr. Gee, was a very wealthy oil man and a Yale graduate. [32] Desmond Leslie, George Adamski's ghost writer, was a graduate of a posh British school and a wealthy cousin of Winston Churchill. [33] George Van Tassell, a '50s contactee, was a personal flight instructor for Howard Hughes from 1941 through 1943. [34] The Hughes companies have made the drill bits for every American oil rig in the world dating from the 1920s when Howard's father invented the things. By 1955 The Hughes Companies had become a manufacturing arm of the CIA and NSA. [35] The mid-50s also saw two of that era's most well-known ufologists, Jim and Coral Lorenzen, founders of the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization (APRO), both working in sensitive positions at the White Sands rocket base. [36] Dr. Howard P. Robertson, head of the Robertson Panel that white- washed UFOs in 1953, was in charge of Operation Paper Clip which brought the German rocket scientists to the USA after World War II. He was quite willing to work with those who had been SS officers at Mittelwerke, where slave laborers were worked to death by the thousands. For more than twenty years Robertson helped develop weapons for the American military and intelligence agencies. [37] Lloyd Berkner, another member of the Robertson panel and an "objective scientist," was a member of secret CIA and NSA advisory groups for more than two decades, was the "father of the International Geophysical Year" (during which the first U.S. satellite was launched) and made a great deal of money from the space program and as a director of Texas Instruments. [38] Even Stanton Friedman, of "Cosmic Watergate" fame, is a veteran of top-secret military nuclear programs and a Chicago University grad. [39] UFO debunker James Oberg got his start in the Air Force at Kirtland AFB's top-secret nuclear weapons lab. Oberg is a Northwestern grad (near the University of Chicago) and Oberg was there at the same time Dr. Hynek headed Northwestern's astronomical observatory. Kirtland AFB is, some say, home to several secret UFO programs. [40] It is a fact the world of elite power in the USA includes the top echelons of science and the leaders of the various top-secret intelligence groups. Detlev Bronk, for many years one of the most influential scientists in the USA, was also for years president of Rockefeller University, where human genome programs are currently running and funds are more than adequate. [41] Averell Harriman, former governor of New York (just before Nelson Rockefeller) for many years had enormous influence within CIA, especially so during the post-Watergate era when CIA was in trouble (and George Bush was Director of Central Intelligence!). [42] And it was no coincidence that Nelson Rockefeller headed the commission that Gerald Ford appointed to investigate the Agency in 1975. There was no one better qualified since Nelson and his family had helped found OSS and CIA in the 1940s. [43] Thus it is clear that many of the well-known figures in the UFO community have connections to elite institutions and/or elite individuals. At the very least this indicates, in this writer's opinion, high-powered interest in the UFO phenomenon, something amply depicted in Ruppelt's aforementioned book, "The Report On Unidentified Flying Objects." He is blunt about the interest among "great men" of the scientific, industrial and military worlds, something all subsequent reviewers of his book have managed to miss. [44] It became public in the mid-1990s that Laurance Rockefeller, active in American national affairs since the middle 1930s and THE man in the high-tech, venture-capital arm of his family, is interested in the abduction phenomenon and UFOs in general. He has held a conference on UFOs at his ranch, is one of those financing John Mack's work through PEER, and has funded other personalities in the paranormal field, including Scott Jones and Stephen Greer. [45] Rockefeller was also the prime mover behind the "Best Available Evidence" document that was presented to members of Congress in late 1995. This is not surprising to me and I suspect that Rockefeller interest greatly predates this public entry into the arena. Is such a thing far-fetched? I do not think so. If you look at the preface of the Condon Report you will see that two of the eleven members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science panel that vouched for its accuracy were on the faculty of Rockefeller University. [46] In closing this section, it is obvious to this writer that the "UFO" is important, very important, and there is little doubt that if this is true then those who are in nominal charge of our civilization are not just sitting back calmly observing events but instead are trying to find out what is going on--with a view toward taking action if action seems to be required. *** Notes To Part Three [18] CLOAK AND GOWN (see note [7]) is the source for most of the information on Research & Analysis in the Office of Strategic Services. See especially pages 71 to 91. [19] See again AMERICA'S SECRET POWER, note [13], page 147, "The CIA And The Groves Of Academy," for this quote from a former member of the CIA Operations Directorate, "We exploit our territory [the campuses] as effectively as possible." On page 301, in a note relating to this subject, Johnson says that the CIA funded research centers on individual campuses and paid for foreign travel on the part of cooperating academics. Harvard professor Richard Pipes is quoted as saying that the CIA analytical bureaus are "filled with American PhDs in all of the sciences," hard and soft, and with engineers. In this writer's personal case, I was once a teaching assistant for a professor who was a former OSS man and was continuing to provide information to the government into the middle 1980s. [20] For instance, UFO abductions were a hot topic in South America a full decade before becoming generally known in the United States -- even though the Lorenzens, Jim and Coral, were receiving information from about 1955. See FLYING SAUCER OCCUPANTS, New American Library, 1967, for most of the story. This book "caught up" American ufology on what the Lorenzens had been unable to publish since the middle 1950s. [21] See THE DECISION TO USE THE ATOMIC BOMB, Gar Alperovitz, Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1995, for the story of how General Groves set up information security inside the Manhattan Project. Pages 601-606 are particularly instructive. It seems that Groves created a system under which the most important orders were given verbally and transmitted by messengers. Then, if a report were necessary, it was hand-written, if possible, and only one copy was allowed to exist. Groves took thousands of documents with him when he left the project and these documents have never been seen by any researcher. The important item is that at the very core of the project there were no documents, only verbal orders. See CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AND NATIONAL SECURITY, Harry Rowe Ransom, or information on the Army Counter Intelligence Corp role in providing security for the Manhattan Project, page 102. [22] Ferdinand Lundberg lays this out most forcefully in his two tremendous books, AMERICA'S SIXTY FAMILIES and THE RICH AND THE SUPER RICH (see note [17] above). Chapter X of FAMILIES is called "Education for Profit and Tax Exemption." The 1920s saw America's top college and universities become financial extensions of vast fortunes and, as Lundberg says on page 377 of FAMILIES, "These schools aim to turn out graduates of pecuniary value to the upper class in its exploitation of American society." See SUPER RICH, Chapter Ten, pages 382-432, entitled "Philanthropic Vistas," for an update of foundation control of U.S. higher education. [23] See page 259 of ABOVE TOP SECRET, Timothy Good, William Morrow, 1988. The information of Menzel was first developed by Stanton Friedman. Good's book is dedicated to Donald Keyhoe. [24] On page 171 of Margaret Sachs' 1980 THE UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA, Perigee Books, is an excellent summary of Keyhoe's career. Sachs' book is a relatively small and packs a great deal of useful information into one volume. Highly recommended. Good's ABOVE TOP SECRET also contains much information about Keyhoe and his involvement in UFOs. [25] See pages 153-154 of Margaret Sachs THE UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA, 1980, for a fairly detailed look at Hynek's career. In Brad Steiger's 1976 book PROJECT BLUEBOOK, page 268-310, there is re- printed the report that Hynek did for the "Air Force" concerning his fellow astronomers. He queried a large number of them in 1952 at a meeting the American Astronomical Society. The astronomers were, as Hynek says, ". . .not aware that anything more than a personal private talk between astronomers was going on." In the middle 1950s Hynek visited Coral Lorenzen, along with an Air Force officer, and as Mrs. Lorenzen said, "He let me do all the talking." This is reported in THE GREAT FLYING SAUCER HOAX, Coral Lornezen, William Fredricks Press, 1962, page 273. As anyone who does much reading on the history of the UFO soon realizes, Hynek was everywhere, talking to people and filing reports. Yet Vallee says his files were a model of dis- organization and were woefully incomplete. See page 254 of Vallee's 1992 book FORBIDDEN SCIENCE for a look at the condition of the files, kept in shoe boxes and wicker baskets. But all the "real" information had to go somewhere, did it not? Was it really all "lost?" Hynek always had money, money to travel, money for telephone calls, etc. Much of this money came to him through the McGraw-Hill company, in fact, through a subsidiary, this procedure known in some circles as money laundering, though not of the "illegal" type (how could it be illegal since Hynek was working for government!); it's just a little odd. All of this is revealed on page 289 of FORBIDDEN SCIENCE. Vallee elsewhere comments that by the early 1960s many, many people had forgotten all about Hynek's former association with the Air Force and assumed he was now simply a private citizen interested in UFOs. [26] Hynek took a trip to Socorro, New Mexico, in March of 1965. See THE PROJECT BLUEBOOK REPORT, Brad Steiger, Bantam Books, 1976, for the details. On page 128 begins a Hynek report (to BlueBook, and to someone else?) on that visit, including a talk with Dr. La Paz (Univ. of New Mexico) who still had not put the Green Fireballs (1948-49) to rest and remained convinced that they represented a secret program of some kind, more secret even than the Manhattan Project. Hynek wrote that Dr. La Paz, and many other people in both Socorro and Albuquerque, believed that Hynek and his bosses in Dayton (Wright Field) were all part of a massive government cover-up. [27] The dust jacket of Vallee's CONFRONTATION, states that the author was a former principal investigator on Department of Defense Computer networking projects, this at Stanford. Vallee got a phd in computer science at Northwestern (where Hynek was director of the university observatory) in 1967. See Vallee's interesting 1982 book THE NETWORK REVOLUTION for the view of a computer networking veteran, years before the hoi polloi began to roll onto the information superhighway. [28] See note [5], Fullers' ALIENS IN THE SKIES, page 34, for the credentials of Dr. McDonald. Looking closely at his career you will see that this gentleman went from an assistant professor to full professor in six years. [29] Ivan Sanderson's life and career are summarized very well in Sach's ENCYCLOPEDIA (see above). Born to a well-to-do family in Scotland, a graduate of Eton and Cambridge, and then, during World War II, a U.S. counterintelligence agent, Sanderson lived several interesting lifetimes in only 62 years. See his 1967 book INVISIBLE RESIDENTS, pp. 119-120, for a glimpse into his Navy career in counterintelligence. [30] Berlitz was the grandson of the founder of the Berlitz language schools, an organization with occasional relationships with CIA. A Yale man (magna cum laude), 1936, he was also a U.S. counterintelligence officer, in Europe and South America. Once again, Sachs' ENCYCLOPEDIA supplies great information, p. 34. [31] See Sachs, ENCYCLOPEDIA, page 237. [32] In 1963, Frank Scully wrote a book called ARMOUR BRIGHT, Chilton Publishing. Chapter 18 is entitled "Flying Saucers, Where Are you," and here is discussed the origin of Scully's Dr. Gee and other issues surrounding his BEHIND THE FLYING SAUCERS, quoted on pages 130-143 in UFO CRASH AT AZTEC, Steinman and Stevens, 1986, UFO Photo Archives, La Marda, California. [33] Desmond Leslie was a very interesting fellow. See page 53 of ABOVE TOP SECRET for the information on his relationship to Winston Churchill, to the other "royals" and the tidbit that he was an RAF fighter pilot during World War II. [34] See page 352 of Sachs' ENCYCLOPEDIA. Van Tassell is another "minor" UFO figure, though he was world-famous in the 1950s and his Giant Rock get-togethers drew thousands. [35] The Hughes Companies built billions of dollars worth of equipment for CIA, and for The National Security Agency and National Reconnaissance Office. See Chapter X, "The Soviet Target Abroad," in AMERICAN ESPIONAGE AND THE SOVIET TARGET, Jeffrey Richelson, William Morrow and Company, New York, 1987. [36] Once again, Sachs' ENCYCLOPEDIA has excellent information on these two. See pages 180 and 181. [37] ABOVE TOP SECRET, page 336. [38] Lloyd Berkner is also a very interesting person. He was a Navy captain in World War II and a very early advocate of putting up an artificial satellite. See THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, Walter A. McDougal, Basic Books, 1985, for much useful information on Dr. Berkner, who was good friend of the first NASA administrator James Webb. Berkner had a great deal to do with the promotion of manned space flight. See especially pp. 315-16. [39] See Sach's, ENCYCLOPEDIA, pp. 115-116. [40] Ibid, pp. 226-27. [41] Detlev Bronk was very closely connected to the Rockefeller family, serving as President of Rockefeller University and as a trustee of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund. In 1969, Bronk traveled to South America with Nelson Rockefeller and the chairman of IBM, Arthur K. Watson, there to advise our friends to the south as how they might "develop" the Amazon basin. Bronk was by this time at the very pinnacle of "power science" in the United States. See THY WILL BE DONE, Gerard Colby and Charlotte Dennett, Harper-Collins, 1995, pages 511 and 634. [42] George Herbert Walker (Walker Cup) Bush; Yale,'49; Skull & Bones,'47, was the son of a "Bonesman" and a close associate of Texas Oil magnate Clint Murchison. Bush has been a member of both the Trilateral Commission and the Council On Foreign Relations and was chairman of the Republican Party on the day that Richard Nixon resigned the presidency. In reviewing his life you will find a three-year span (1960-63) when not much seems to be happening. In 1988, documents were discovered linking a "George Bush" to the JFK assassination and the Bay of Pigs, two events that occurred during this hiatus in Bush's life, a hiatus that could cover CIA activity. Bush would be made Director of Central Intelligence by Gerald Ford in 1976. See "Shots From The Bushy Knoll," chapter 14, in CRIMES, COVER-UPS AND CONSPIRACIES, Jonathan Vankin, Paragon House, 1991. [43] See THE ROCKEFELLERS, A FAMILY DYNASTY, Peter Collier and David Horowitz, Holt, Reinhardt & Winston, 1976. Of great interest is Chapter 16. Nelson Rockefeller has had enormous influence in U.S. "intelligence" since the 1930s. As a principal owner among the Standard Oil companies, Nelson had contacts around the world and financial or professional relationships with John J. McCloy (DCI under Kennedy), C. Douglas Dillon (United Fruit, Dillon & Read law firm), James Forrestal (SECDEF under Truman, Dillon & Read law firm), Robert Paterson (SECDEF under Ike), both of the Dulleses, John Foster and Allen, and Walt Rostow, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger, these last two being former staffers of Nelson. In addition, Nelson ran his own intelligence service in South America during World War II and two of his cousins served in OSS, one of them as head of the Research & Analysis branch. [44] On page 115 of THE REPORT ON UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS Ruppelt speaks of the many scientists who got briefings on the UFOs from the Air Force's Air Technical Intelligence Corps in early 1952. He says the names read like a page from "Great Men Of Science." [45] Laurance and Greer, see the archives of the UFO Updates listserve for June 3, 1997 for several messages concerning Greer and Rockefeller, as well as another very well off person, one Mrs. Galbraith, whose maiden name is DuPont. [46] See pages VIII and IX of THE SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS, Edward Condon, project director, Bantam Books, 1969. *** [End -- Part Three of Four]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 exoSci: Cassini From: Dave Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 00:42:27 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 09:05:32 -0400 Subject: exoSci: Cassini Greetings, A few things: EXOSCI.COM * Please check out the exoScience site. Content is starting to be put up, and right now we have a fully operational News section, as well as information on the Cassini probe to Saturn, including a special live Cassini-cam! http://www.exosci.com/probes/cassini/ http://www.exosci.com/news/ HELP WANTED! * exoScience is a content site. Unfortunately, alone by myself I have no way of creating as much content as I would like. And thus, I would be grateful for any help any of you can offer. I am specifically looking for people who would be interested in writing short articles on whatever topics they like, whenever they like. exoScience is about astronomy, exobiology, and anything un-earthly. You may talk about anything you like, NASA or Mir or the Martian monuments or the future of mankind in space or the existance of extraterrestrial life. Personally, I'd like to see opinions openly proclaimed. This is your soap box. This is a BIG soap box, one which will reach tens of thousands. Of course, this is no casual affair. Writing skill is quite necessary. Beyond the immediate gratification of reaching thousands with your opinions, there may be future monetary rewards. I realize that writing takes time, and I am not going to enlist slaves. Realize I am not reaching for Pynchon or Camus. If you are passionate about a topic, or just like the idea of being heard by large masses of devoted followers, please get in contact with me. Please send me any ideas you may have. Even if you have no ideas, I'd still like to talk with you, and perhaps plant some seeds. MAILING LIST * Yes, this mailing list will continue. I haven't worked out the technical details yet. It looks like this AUFORA list will meld into the exoSci UFO list (no need to resubscribe). A seperate list will host the main exoSci list with space news. Note that NASA news and such will no longer be on the UFO list, so if you still want them you will have to subscribe to the new list. I will send detailed instructions on how to subscribe to the new list when they become available. Thanks for your time, Dave Watanabe www.exosci.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Letters to the Editor LIFE From: Don Nellesen <nellesen@SWBELL.NET> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 23:38:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 09:20:06 -0400 Subject: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Letters to the Editor LIFE Hi C.E. List, The April 7, 1952 LIFE MAGAZINE article titled, �HAVE WE VISITORS FROM SPACE?� is a well known historical piece. (If you have not seen it or do not remember it I will soon have a small web page which will contain this rather long article.) Few (at least this has been my experience) have seen the April 28, 1952 issue which contained letters to the editor regarding the article. The following is the April 28th issue as provided to the Usnet news groups by Ed [Dave? - ebk] Rudiak. As such, I did not key it, but I did photo-copy the issue from my St. Louis County Library archives and verify its contents. Also included are comments from Captain Edward Ruppelt: Don - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - April 28, 1952: Letters to the Editor VISITORS FROM SPACE? Sirs: "Have We Visitors from Space?" (LIFE, April 7) is the most comprehensive report I have read on the subject. I was very closely associated with Projects "Twinkle" and "Grudge" at Alamogordo, N. Mex. where I was chief of the technical photographic facility at Holloman Air Force base. I have seen several of these objects myself, and they are everything you say they are as to shape, size and speed. Daniel A. McGovern Captain, USAF Alexandria, Va. Sirs: I first learned about the green fireballs from Marine Corps night fighter pilots while I was an aviation intelligence officer in Korea. Pilots often reported seeing strange bright green objects in the skies, unlike anything they had ever seen before, and moving too fast and regularly to be explained or identified or analyzed by the pilots themselves or the intelligence officers. Edward A. Kolar Captain, USMCR Tenafly, N.J. Sirs: LIFE has again rendered a distinct service to its readers. The authors' painstaking work in compiling and evaluating known data has made a case for interplanetary space ships which is entirely logical and sensible. Donald J. Falvey Deep River, Conn. [A few letters deleted] Sirs: As observers of the Lubbock lights, we feel the record requires that we point out that the groups of objects shown in the Hart photographs are, in these respects, essentially different from any of the 12 or more groups that we sighted. 1) All but three of the groups we sighted had no geometric form; those three were smooth arcs, not V-shaped. 2) Those three could not be conclusively determined to be composed of individual lights, but certainly they were not made up of two distinct rows of alternately spaced lights. 3) None of our sightings was either bright enough, nor in view long enough (3 seconds) to offer any possibility of being photographed. 4) Even if the lights we saw had been particularly rich in nonvisible ultraviolet light, they could not have been photographed without special equipment. 5) All of our sightings were close to the same speed of 30 degrees per second, at which speed it would be impossible to follow them with a camera accurately enough to obtain an unblurred image. W. I. Robinson A. G. Oberg W. L. Ducker E. F. George Lubbock, Texas * Air Force experts had considered these objections of Professor Ducker and Doctors Oberg, Robinson and George. But they are still convinced that Hart was able to get exposures of the two groups he saw (4 seconds for each to cross the sky, 1- 1/2 minutes apart) and found no reason to repudiate his pictures. -- ED. Sirs: Your article overstates the strangeness of the fireballs it describes... You imply that the 1951 fireball display in the Southwest was not a meteor shower. We obtained and photographed approximate paths for 11 fireballs reported as falling Oct. 30 to Nov. 9 inclusive. The plot showed that all came from a small area in and near the constellation Taurus. This indicates a shower, perhaps related to the well-known shower whose members are seen falling away from Taurus in October and November.... C. C. Wylie Professor of Astronomy University of Iowa Iowa City, Iowa * Although there were meteor falls during this period, Dr. La Paz says: "Almost all of the green fireballs observed in the Southwest between December 1948 and December 1951 radiated from the circumpolar region of the sky. They came from points 35 to as much as 105 degrees distant from the Taurid fireball radiant, and therefore obviously were not related to this radiant." -- ED. Sirs: It is rather chilling to see that our plans for hospitality include interceptions and recover. It would be tragic indeed if the harmless and friendly behavior of these crafts from elsewhere were met with military destruction. Not only would the morals of such a course be a regrettable indication of man's immaturity, but the practical consequences might include drastic reprisals.... Mason Rose Los Angeles, Calif. Sirs: ...The only reason the preponderance of this saucer- fireball-cigar activity is taking place in the American Southwest is that this is the area which has brought itself to interplanetary (or perhaps I should say, intergalaxial) attention. It was done so by virtue of the fact that it was the site used for the original A-bomb experiments.... Bill Ryan San Diego, Calif. * The Air Force, which has attempted to correlate the frequency and location of saucer reports with the testing of atomic weapons, has found no significant relationships. -- ED. --------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENTS ON LIFE ARTICLE BY CPT. EDWARD J. RUPPELT, FORMER HEAD OF A.F. PROJECT BLUE BOOK, IN HIS BOOK "THE REPORT ON UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS," 1956, pp. 177-178. The LIFE article undoubtedly threw a harder punch at the American public than any other UFO article ever written. The title alone, "Have We Visitors From Outer Space?" was enough. Other very reputable magazines, such as TRUE, had said it before, but coming from LIFE, it was different. LIFE didn't say that the UFO's were from outer space; it just said maybe. But to back up this "maybe," it had quotes from some famous people. Dr. Walther Riedel, who played an important part in the development of the German V-2 missile and is presently the director of rocket engine research for North American Aviation Corporation, said he believed that the UFO's were from outer space. Dr. Maurice Biot, one of the world's leading aerodynamicists, backed him up. But the most important thing about the LIFE article was the question in the minds of so many readers: "Why was it written?" LIFE doesn't go blasting off on flights of space fancy without a good reason. Some of the readers saw a clue in the author's comments that the hierarchy of the Air Force was now taking a serious look at UFO reports. "Did the Air Force prompt LIFE to write the article?" was the question that many people asked themselves. When I arrived at Dayton [Wright-Patterson AFB, home of ATIC and Project Blue Book], newspapermen were beating down the door. The official answer to the LIFE article was released through the Office of Public Information in the Pentagon: "The article is factual, but LIFE's conclusions are their own." In answer to any questions about the article's being Air Force-inspired, my weasel-worded answer was that we had furnished LIFE with some raw data on specific sightings. My answer was purposely weasel-worded because I knew that the Air Force had unofficially inspired the LIFE article. The "maybe they're interplanetary" with the "maybe" bordering on "they are" was the personal opinion of several very high-ranking officers in the Pentagon -- so high that their personal opinion was almost policy. I knew the men and I knew that one of them, a general, had passed his opinions on to Bob Ginna. [See background comments below.] Oddly enough, the LIFE article did not cause a flood of reports. The day after the article appeared we got nine sightings, which was unusual, but the next day they dropped off again. The number of reports did take a sharp rise a few days later, however. The cause was the distribution of an order that completed the transformation of the UFO from a bastard son to the family heir. The piece of paper that made Project Blue Book legitimate was Air Force Letter 200-5, Subject: Unidentified Flying Objects. The letter, which was duly signed and sealed by the Secretary of the Air Force, in essence stated that UFO's were not a joke, that the Air Force was making a serious study of the problem, and that Project Blue Book was responsible for the study. The letter stated that the commander of every Air Force installation was responsible for forwarding all UFO reports to ATIC by wire, with a copy to the Pentagon. then a more detailed report would be sent by airmail. Most important of all, it gave Project Blue Book the authority to directly contact any Air Force unit in the United States without going through any chain of command. This was almost unheard of in the Air Force and gave our project a lot of prestige. [BACKGROUND: Possibly the general referred to by Ruppelt as authorizing the release of information to LIFE was USAF Gen. Nathan Twining, whom Donald Keyhoe of NICAP suspected was personally opposed to the UFO cover-up. Twining at the time of the LIFE article was A.F. Vice Chief of Staff under Gen. Vandenberg, and became Chief of Staff in June 1953. Twining was head of the Air Materiel Command at Wright-Patterson AFB (then Wright Field) in July, 1947, at the height of the 1947 UFO flap and the time of the Roswell incident. He wrote a now famous letter dated Sept. 23, 1947, to Gen. George Schulgen, then head of Air Intelligence, calling the UFOs real metallic craft, not imaginary, described their unusual flight characteristics, and called for an official investigation -- the start of Project Sign. He supplied further information to Schulgen, culminating in Schulgen's famous intelligence memo of Oct. 28, 1947, which also called the flying saucers real, said they might be interplanetary, and gave details of their construction, including unusual materials that matched descriptions of debris by Roswell witnesses. Twining was named in the infamous, probably forged MJ-12 papers, as a member of the ultra-secret MJ-12 UFO study group, supposedly formed the day after his Sept. 23 letter. However, Twining has also been named as a member of a secret Pentagon UFO study group by USAF Gen. Arthur Exon, former head of Wright-Patterson AFB from 1964-69. Exon also implicated Gen. Vandenberg as a member of the group, plus Gen. Samford, head of Air Intelligence in 1952 (and whom Ruppelt said he frequently briefed), and Gen. Ramey, who was working with Samford at the time in UFO investigations and who was also deeply involved in the Roswell incident. (Roswell was his subcommand at the time, and he put out the weather balloon cover story to the press.) Both Samford and Ramey were in charge of the July 29, 1952, major press conference in Washington D.C., in which they debunked the UFO radar-visual cases over Washington as the result of heat inversions.] -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- nellesen@swbell.net "Science is applied skepticism, the chasing down and examination of doubt." - Jon Hall
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:35:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 14:39:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso Regarding... >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:57:03 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >Subject: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso Jim wrote: >Even a couple of us on this list who have very little expertise in >photography were easily able to point out how the upward curved >scratch-like mark on Korff's film as delineated with giant arrows on >his p. 198 could in no way have been any suspension line for a >UFO-model. Korff never responded to this and never admitted the >grossness of this error, not to mention the scads of others. Jim, Surely you're aware of images such as Meier's "Type-4" spacecraft, claimed to have been photographed on 29 March 1976. As you no doubt realise, computer enhancement by William Spaulding and "Ground Saucer Watch", who pronounced Meier's photos "total hoaxes", was rather revealing. There's a copy of the enhanced, aforementioned image on my web site at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/meier.jpg What's that thread-like object the Type-4 seems to be suspended from, Jim? James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Popular Mechanics denies Air Force influence From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:43:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 14:41:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics denies Air Force influence Regarding... >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:42:56 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Popular Mechanics denies Air Force influence Dave wrote: >As many of you know, the July issue of Popular Mechanics has an >article on Roswell, in which PM Science & Technology Editor Jim >Wilson theorized that Roswell could be explained as the crash of a >Hugo balloon/Horton glider spy craft hybrid piloted by Japanese >pilots. >Just prior to this, there were rumors that the Air Force was going >to publish a similar theory in their Final Solution to the Roswell >crash. I think Kevin Randle first brought that to our attention. >Just to see if PM would admit to any connection, I sent off the >following E-mail to Jim Wilson. As you will notice, he denies any >Air Force involvement in his story. Does anyone have any information >to contradict this, or was the PM story the source of the rumors >about the Air Force's new report? Dave, The first person I know of who mentioned the USAF connection with the Hugo/Horton claims was Joe Stefula, on CompuServe. I recently wrote to Joe: Joe, You said: "Ok, I'll break the story. Roswell was a re-engineered "Fugo" carrying a Horten brothers designed heel shaped VTOL glider that was manned. To be used for early secret overflights of Russia. Test craft crashed with "Japanese" test engineers aboard. "Fugo" type balloon was one crash site and crew inside glider landed at another site. Gliders was stealthy with grooves and cross-cuts on underside to deflect radar beams. Balloon carried the glider to high altitude and after taking pictures the crew would release the glider and land a safe location. (Documents being release will explain in detail at Japanese Project "Paperclip")" Anything further on this, or are these claims now in some doubt? Can you now identify the source of the claims - was it McAndrew? [End] Joe explained: "My source claimed to have had contact with McAndrew. Well, I was wrong. Source had advance knowledge of Popular Mech article on Roswell. So Source embellished that story". If I recall, when Kevin mentioned the story here, I confirmed having heard much the same claims, but noted they seemed ludicrous in every respect. I think there was an almost universal scepticism about this and it seems justifiably so. Looks like the claims can be attributed to the PM article and the USAF were never involved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: James Easton's comments From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:42:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 14:46:53 -0400 Subject: Re: James Easton's comments Regarding... >Date: 21 Jun 97 13:09:12 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: James Easton's comments Bob wrote: >On UFO Updates James Easton has commented that I stated that I was >not interested in UFOs. James may produce documentation if he likes, >but I don't think I ever used those words. Bob, Clearing out some old mail and just for the record, you falsely accuse. The source of the comments you mention was, if I recall, James Diss. It certainly wasn't 'dis James. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Alien Autopsy once again From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:42:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 14:51:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy once again Regarding... >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:29:13 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> >Subject: Alien Autopsy once again The Duke of Mendoza presented his compliments and wrote: >>Date: 26 Jul 97 11:10:36 EDT >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Alien Autopsy once again >>Should you be fluent in Highland Broag, perhaps you could >>accompany me to Balcombe street one day and talk to Harry. >While it is true that one of my three grandmothers and one of my >three former brothers-in-law were Highlanders... That's arguably close enough for an associate membership. "Harry", is in fact Harry McGuire of the clan McGuire. As my late aunt married into a McGuire family, I consider Harry to be almost kin. As you are undoubtedly familiar with the history of the borderlands which divide Scotland and England, suffice to say that it can be summarised as several hundred years of bloody cross-border raids and reprisals. Now residing in said countryside, I recently became aware that on this side, the side of goodness and light, descendants of the families which formed the Scottish "Border Reivers" include Presidents Nixon and Johnson and Neil Armstrong. That Nixon was descended from a race of rustlers and racketeers, will doubtless astound our colonial cousins. Another "Reivers" family name which caught my eye was "Irving". I'm sure that particular blood-line holds many a dark secret. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Comparative Literature From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:46:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 14:53:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Comparative Literature >From: "R.Bull" <RAB@cadcentre.co.uk> [Robert Bull] >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Comparative Literature >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 97 14:51:00 PDT >>From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] >>To: <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:55:28 -0700 >>Subject: Comparative Literature >>Hi All! >>Does anyone know of any books, or even web pages, that >>do a comparison between religous writings and ufology. >>What I am looking for, is something that breaks down >>the different influential appearances of "god" or >>"angels", and also miracles, and compares these to >>what we know today about ufos and abductions. >>Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! >>Sincerely, >>Desiree Holloway - snake@mwaz.com >And another one: >Harpur, Patrick. (1995). Daimonic Reality. London: Penguin Arkana Over at Magonia there's Duke Mendoza's "Communion Cups and Crashed Saucers" pt.1 ( pt.2 imminent, tonight maybe) http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/pb1.html Should give you something to chew on.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Another Question for Kal From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 15:11:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal > From: TotlResrch@aol.com > Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 02:58:13 -0400 (EDT) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal > Dear Don and Jim: > Recently, Don Allen mentioned that I never sent my rebuttal to him regarding > Billy Meier and Jim Deardorff states a bold faced LIE that I have a > "vendetta" against Jim Dilettoso. Let me quickly address these then I have to > leave to go on travel, sorry. .... > To Jim Deardorff: You are WRONG about a "vendetta" against Dilettoso. To be > honest I would rather not bother with Dilettoso matters, but I feel I have no > choice here because NO ONE (ESPECIALLY YOU JIM) are addressing two things: 1) > Dilettoso LIED about Having a PhD SEVERAL TIMES and 2) That regardless of > one's photo analysis "expertise," WITHOUT ORIGINAL NEGATIVES NO UFO PHOTOS > (even Meiers) CAN BE AUTHENTICATED. Hello List, If Korff doesn't have a vendetta against Dilettoso, he has certainly had a prolonged and bitter feud against him. It dates back to 1981 and is still continuing today. It is not Dilettoso who is continuing it, it is Korff. Korff was going to get back to us about (among other things) the photo he acquired for his book that ended up with an upward arced scratch-line mark on it that he claimed was a UFO-model support line. He never did, and never admitted the grossness of his error. Yet he expects others to respond to him? (Why do we keep giving him a break?) > Challenge to you Jim: WHY have you IGNORED Dilettoso's LIES about his > imaginary degrees and HAVE REFUSED TO ADMIT THAT WITHOUT ORIGINAL NEGATIVES > MEIER'S PHOTOS CAN'T BE PROVEN "AUTHENTIC" CONTRARY TO WHAT DILETTOSO SAYS?? If what Korff's first book says about Dilettoso claiming an honorary degree from McGill University is true, then it appears that Dilettoso is guilty of the false claim. It appears that what happened was that Dilettoso did some good work at the university for which he received some sort of accolades that he considered to be the equivalent of an honorary degree. However, I'd want to hear from Dilettoso on this before making any judgment, because I know for a fact that Korff over and over omits what he wishes to omit in his books and writings, and often distorts what he doesn't omit, in order to come to a pre-desired conclusion. An example of such distortion was in this same e-mail missive: > ..... Remember, out > of the 20 major religious cult leaders in Switzerland, 18 of them claim to be > the "Messiah" -- including Billy Meier. Although of course NONE of these > bozos call themselves a cult. It's bad for business. Meier nowhere calls himself a Messiah or proclaims to be such. To Jews the Messiah was supposed to be a leader who would unify their people, get them out of bondage and make them a leading nation; to Christians the Messiah was one who would save mankind from their sins. Meier doesn't think that even Jesus was any Messiah of this nature, but rather a great teacher of spiritual truths, except that he regards his true name to have been Immanuel, not Jesus, and was told by one of his ET contactors to spell his name as Jmmanuel. If you ask Meier who Jesus was, he'd say that our Jesus figure was an invention of Paul, who distorted Jmmanuel's teachings almost beyond all recognition. However, Meier has disclosed what his contactors did tell him: that he was to be their prophet for this age, and that he had been a prophet before, in past lives, during which times he was also their contactee. Most ufologists can keep track of the difference between what a UFO witness reports seeing or experiencing and/or photographing, and what his UFO aliens tell him/her. Most on this List are probably interested in discussing the former rather than the latter. We are under no obligation to believe that what aliens tell their contactees/abductees is truth. But Korff mixes the latter in with the former, as if we should believe that aliens never pass any disinformation on to their abductees/contactees. And Korff here distorted "prophet/teacher" into "Messiah." Concerning lack of original negatives: Even though Meier retained his original color transparencies, or lost some of them through loaning them out, there is still much one can learn from close inspection of some 2nd- or even 3rd-generation film. Wendelle Stevens had "internegatives" made from some 40 of these originals, and positive-to-positive prints made from a dozen more. So he had pretty high quality 2nd-generation material to work with, except that he later noticed that what Meier had received back from the photo shop in his photo series that captured the Swiss jet plane on the same frame with the beamship was already 2nd generation (Meier pointed out that they had left-to-right reversed) -- and so what Stevens possessed there was 3rd generation. A couple of Meier's photos (#164 and #174) from the Hasenboel series allows one to conclude that the UFO image could not have been that of any model close to the camera, even with several-generation film. One of these photos, the famous "sun-glint" photo, #164, is the first of the photos appearing in Gary Kinder's book _Light Years_: 1) The foreground is in the shade, including the deciduous tree the UFO is behind, yet the sun is reflecting off of the upper right-hand side of the UFO towards the camera. This is quite understandable if the UFO was a large object in the distance where the last rays of the setting sun could still reach it. The photo was taken a few minutes after 6 pm, at which time the sun would have been only 6 degrees above a sea-level horizon. Any model UFO in the foreground would not have seen the sun. One doesn't need a 1st- or 2nd-generation print to see this. (Note: the sun wasn't behind the UFO, rather its azimuth lay out of the picture to the right.) For some reason, Korff omits any mention of this. But shouldn't any "total research" include and emphasize the most important features? 2) The reflected sun's rays show up with the golden hue typical of a setting sun. It takes many meters of illuminated pathlength for the hazy air to show up along this pathlength viewed by the camera. A small model located only 8-12 feet from the camera wouldn't be nearly far enough away to allow this effect to show. Again, Korff is silent on this. 3) Both in the Elders' Pictorial Vol. 1 and in Stevens' 1982 book it is noted that the examiners of the 2nd-generation print could tell that certain of the branches of the tree passed in front of the beamship, and not the reverse. With somewhat higher generation prints the contrast is insufficient to conclude anything on this. All Korff had available to work with in this instance was a high generation print obtained from Meier's support group, and from it he tried to make the reader believe the UFO was a model in front of the distant tree. 4) The other 33 prints Meier retains from this one series of photos are also fully consistent with the craft having been a large object that approached from the distance. So it should be obvious why the Meier case just won't disappear from sight. Unfortunately, we have to thank Kal Korff for bringing it back into the light. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: UFOs and Professional Associations From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:59:47 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:10:43 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations >Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 02:43:02 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations >Dennis I think that you, a studied debunker of >U.S. intelligence-agency involvement in the UFO phenomenon, >will simply pooh-pooh my response, or tag-team it over to Pflock >or another of your debunking friends who will let me have it. >Gary Alevy Well, Gary, you're wrong again. I must say, though, that I've run out of patience with anyone who accuses me of having a hidden agenda or being a closet debunker and/or government agent, simply because they disagree with my stated opinions. So, you'll pardon me, or not, for being fairly brief. I've simply got better things to do than respond to you at length, because it's obvious what your response will be. However... >And so you dissemble again. Corso clearly states that it is the >tabloids who get the number of fingers wrong. But you clearly >knew this as you are reading the same text. The sentence you quote from Corso can be read either way. More significantly, however, the press release originally sent out with the review copy of the book I received excerpts Corso's description of the alien he saw -- and the number of fingers is six. Since you won't believe me, I suggest you have someone else who received the press release fax you a copy. That will prove I didn't doctor mine. >I will quote the book here The Day After Roswell (TDAR) page 3 >- Corso states, "The stories about the Roswell crash vary from >one another in details. Because I wasn't there, I've had to rely on >reports of others, even within the military itself." > <some Corso text skipped> >"And I've heard different people argue the dates and back and >forth, establishing time lines that vary from one another in details, >but all agree that something crashed in the desert outside of >Roswell and near enough to the army's most sensitive installations >at Alamogordo and White Sands that it caused the army to react >quickly and with concern as soon as it found out." >Yes Dennis what you have made is a clear case that you will >mis-represent even material which can be quoted from a book >inorder to promote your viewpoint and/or agenda. You're entitled to be as ignorant and self-deceiving as you want. Corso claims he's summarizing what happened at Roswell from original reports, "even within the military itself." Even? Hell, why wouldn't he use the military reports in the first place? Didn't they recover the stuff? Some reports, though, when they can't even get right whether Marcel was at a crash site with bodies or not, something Marcel himself never mentioned, BTW. You're also free to believe that they drove some of the debris and recovered bodies from Roswell, New Mexico, to Wright Field, Ohio, by truck, when the Army had an entire air force at its disposal. Hell, makes sense to me. Saucer debris, dead alien bodies. How do we get it to headquarters for analysis? "Duh, truck it?" "Good idea, sarge! Here's your lieutenant bars!" Still, odd, though, that no one but Corso has ever claimed this. >You impugn Corso's credibility without being able to offer proof >yourself that he is wrong. Do you know the true number of aliens >at Roswell? You do know that the various accounts differ. Why >would you favor the other alleged eyewitness accounts over >Corso's? Because I figure that whoever in the military filed the reports that Corso claims to have read ought to have been able to count the number of bodies finally recovered with the fingers on both hands. You don't "lose" an alien body like that. You either know how many came through Roswell or you don't. There's no confusion about such matters, when all the paperwork is finally turned in. That goes ditto for dates and locations. Corso (or his co-author) is simply covering his ass here, and you're dense enough (which is your privilege) to fall for it. What you're saying is that the Army itself never knew how many bodies it recovered and autopsied, when or where they were found, or, for that matter, even who found the damn things. But at least you've got company, because that's what Corso says, too, and what he also wants you to believe, which you apparently do. I don't. If that's an "agenda," so be it. I call it common sense and being able to read between the lines. >One really has to ask what your agenda is here. What is >shameless name dropping? Do you find it hard to understand that >someone with his background would know a few people. Would >you deny that as an Army Intelligence Colonel stationed in >Washington, working at the Pentagon, working on the National >Security Council, advisor to chairman of the Senate Armed >Services Committee wouldn't know some names worth dropping? >As regards everyone being seriously deceased, have you ever >looked at cohort survival statistics for 82 year old white males? >Moreover its even less likely that his superior officers, likely >older, would be alive just because you wish it were so. Shameless name dropping is shameless name dropping. You read the book again. It's also likely that many of the people in civilian industry that Corso claims to have dealt with would have been younger and still be alive, which may be why he bothers to name -- I think -- exactly one of them. Let's call this shameless non-name dropping if you like. >> 7) As equally significant as what Corso does say, is what >> he doesn't say. The ultimate insider's insider offers not >> a single shred of new evidence to support any of his claims. >> Virtually everything in his book could have been >> put together with the already existing Roswell literature and >> an active imagination -- either on Corso's part, or that of >> his co-author. >What would you consider a shred of new evidence? You know >that a loyal security abiding individual would not be retaining >classified materials. So it seems to me you are asking for what >you know an insider going public as an individual cannot provide. >I can't see how I can dignify you last statement in the paragraph >with a reply. Please don't exercise yourself on my account. I'm always amused, though, when people who see hidden agendas everywhere fail to take into account the most common human agenda of all -- money. You haven't been watching your Oliver Stone. Follow the money, Gary. >> 8) Nor does what we know about the Thurmond Foreward affair >> enhance the author's credibility. If Corso's version of the >> event is the correct one, he should be able to easily document it. >> If not, it tells us that whatever else >> Corso may be, he is certainly no stranger to deception. >The so called Foreword affair was the non-event of the year. Not >much is really known about it? Except that I might note that none >other than Senator Strom Thurmond did copyright his foreword, >that's right after the title page in case you didn't see it. >Moreover Corso and Birnes have gone on record stating that they >do have letter(s) from Thurmond authorizing the use of the >foreword in the book on Roswell. Well, good, Gary! If they've gone on record as saying they have the letters, then, like I said, it should be relatively easy to produce them. A copier and fax machine come immediately to mind. Why don't you write one of them, or both, and ask for copies of their documentation? You can then post it here for all of us to see -- unless you've got some other sort of personal agenda. What I would really like to see, however, is copies of any correspondence between Corso and Birnes during the writing of the book. But maybe they didn't put that in writing, either. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 "Politics of UFOs" - Rescheduled From: SGBList1@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:43:00 -0400 Subject: "Politics of UFOs" - Rescheduled Let's face it, cyber media is still a work in progress. The Project Watchfire netshow on "Politics of UFOs" as been recheduled due to technical problems with the site. New schedule: Re: Project Watchfire netshow on the "Politics of UFOs" When: Tuesday, August 12, 9 p.m. est Where: Project Watchfire website: watchfire.msn.com/watchfire Guests: Stephen Bassett, consultant and lobbyist On Video: Previous Jacques Vallee interviews (all day in the Briefing area) How: site best viewed with IE 4.0 or IE 3.0 (plug-ins should auto-download) Stephen Bassett Paradigm Research Group Bethesda, MD
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock} Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:46:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- Its seems of late I'm spending all too much time correcting/clarifying myself on matters which wouldn't be a problem if I didn't rush things when spreading disinformation online. Sigh... This time, I'm indebted to the (Horrors!) Dread Robert Todd for pointing out a problem to me. It seems that in my haste back about July 26 I misquoted the famous FBI telex (Dallas to FBI Cincinnati and FBI hqrs.) of 8 July, 1947 (note correct MJ-12 date format). It does NOT describe the radar target as being 25 feet in diameter as misquoted it as doing, but rather said the balloon from which the "disc [which] is hexagonal in shape" was suspended "was approximately twenty feet in diameter." I damn' well should have checked rather than working from memory (no bonus from MJ-1 this quarter). However, there is no way to tell if the reference to a 20-foot diameter was specific to balloon material, or to the area covered by all the debris recovered or just what. The main feature of the telex is that there obviously existed some confusion on the part of the people at Fort Worth and Wright Field as to exactly what the debris was. That's clear from the teletype, and relates to the often asked question, Why would they bother to send the stuff on to Wright Field if weather officer Newton had already identified it at Fort Worth? The FBI teletype clearly shows there was some confusion. The point is that confusion existed, so the material was sent on to Wright Field, where Col. Duffy identified it, since he was THE authority on meteorological equipment (and Mogul) at that base. As I was checking what I'd written about the FBI message, I noticed I'd also introduced some possible confusion about Major Marcel, when I wrote: "[W]hile he seems to have been a good officer, if a bit excitable and prone to magnify problems (as per his fitness reports)...." It's entirely reasonable to assume from this that Marcel's fitness reports suggested he was "excitable." In truth, they do not. This term was used in describing him by former officers who knew and worked with him, one of whom said this to me: "Jesse was a fine man and a good friend, but he was an excitable Cajun." As for the fitness reports, see, e.g., that dated 6 May, 1948, which states, "His only known weakness is an inclination to magnify problems he is confronted with." Having written and been the subject of such reports, it is clear to me the fact the reviewing officer saw fit to highlight this point in an otherwise glowing assessment demonstrates this "inclination" had been a problem. (I'll bet even Kevin Randle will concur in this, though perhaps not publicly.) My apologies to the list, Jesse Marcel's family, and above all MJ-1. Up the Cover Up! -- MJ-NAUGHT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Another Question for Kal From: "Jeroen Jansen" <jj4747@dds.nl> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 97 22:13:20 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:50:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal >From: TotlResrch@aol.com >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 02:58:13 -0400 (EDT) >To: Updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal <snip> >To Jim Deardorff: Your desperation in support of Meier is lame and truly sad. >But in the interim, ANSWER these two questions regarding Dilettoso and the >subject of NO ORIGINAL photo negatives. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 1) TotalResearcher Kal Korff, during his many years of investigation into the Meiercase, apparently, still hasn't noticed the fact that Meier says he shot his pictures on diapositive transparancy film; there are no first generation negatives in existence because Meier never made them. 2) If you communicate with Meier and his group in a decent manner they will tell you that they are in the possession of some of the remaining original slides, contrary to what Korff states in his book. 3) I personally don't care if Jim Dilettoso was awarded/was not awarded a honorary degree, or certain documents he interprets as a honorary degree. It are the details of his photo analyses which are of real importance and interest IMO. 4) Jim Dilettoso can be seen explaining computer analyses he performed on a scanned internegative of Meier photo # 86 in the video _Contact_ by Genesis III. (Kal Korff ignores those analyses, the photo and that whole sequence of 9 UFO photos in his 1995 book.) 5) Kal Korff until this date has failed to give a refutation of Jim Deardorff's detailed arguments in favor of Meier's _Talmud Jmmanuel_ being more than simply a hoax. (see: Jim Deardorff's book _Celestial Teachings_, PART II-Detailed Analysis, pp. 77-233).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Letters to the Editor LIFE From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:52:02 -0400 Subject: Re: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Letters to the Editor LIFE > Subj: UFO UpDate: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Letters to the Editor LIFE MAGAZINE > Date: 97-08-05 09:36:41 EDT > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 23:38:18 -0500 > From: Don Nellesen <nellesen@SWBELL.NET> > Subject: Letters to the Editor LIFE MAGAZINE April 28th, 1952 > To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > > Hi C.E. List, > > The April 7, 1952 LIFE MAGAZINE article titled, �HAVE WE > VISITORS FROM SPACE?� is a well known historical piece. (If you > have not seen it or do not remember it I will soon have a small web > page which will contain this rather long article.) Few (at least this > has been my experience) have seen the April 28, 1952 issue which > contained letters to the editor regarding the article. > > The following is the April 28th issue as provided to the Usnet > news groups by Ed [Dave? - ebk] Rudiak. As such, I did not key it, but > I did photo-copy the issue from my St. Louis County Library archives > and verify its contents. Also included are comments from Captain Edward > Ruppelt: Yep, Dave Rudiak. I posted a copy to Usenet over a year ago of the April 7, 1952 article, April 28, 1952 follow-up letters-to-the-editor, Ruppelt's comments on the LIFE article in his book, plus some of my own comments. This has since been archived on a number of Web sites, including Jean van Gemert's and Brian Zeiler's Web page: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/papers/life1952.htm David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 02:25:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:35:13 -0400 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:57:03 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >Subject: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso > Jim wrote: > >Even a couple of us on this list who have very little expertise in > >photography were easily able to point out how the upward curved > >scratch-like mark on Korff's film as delineated with giant arrows on > >his p. 198 could in no way have been any suspension line for a > >UFO-model. Korff never responded to this and never admitted the > >grossness of this error, not to mention the scads of others. > James wrote: > Surely you're aware of images such as Meier's "Type-4" spacecraft, > claimed to have been photographed on 29 March 1976. > As you no doubt realise, computer enhancement by William Spaulding and > "Ground Saucer Watch", who pronounced Meier's photos "total hoaxes", > was rather revealing. > There's a copy of the enhanced, aforementioned image on my web site > at: > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/meier.jpg > What's that thread-like object the Type-4 seems to be suspended from, > Jim? Hello James, Just visited that picture on your site. Now that's the way a support line to a model UFO is supposed to look! None of the apparent scratches on the photos in Korff's book show anything like that, but instead show line or arc segments at odd locations and odd angles relative to the craft, but nothing connecting to it. On your site you didn't show the full picture the enlarged "enhancement" came from, and you say it came from GSW? As you may know, any who have ordered Meier UFO photos from Switzerland in the past 10 or 15 years just get copies of copies, as they kept running out of their lower generation prints. This is the way Korff got his photos for the March 29, 1976, series, around 1991. So if it was GSW who acquired the photo you showed a piece of, it could have been of 6th, 8th or higher generation. The Meier photos that Spaulding or GSW analyzed back around 1980 started with a person photographing a 3rd-generation print in Meier's photo album, and were 5th generation or higher by the time GSW had analyzed them. One really does need to know who did the photo retouching or enhancing, when it comes to a case examined by ufologists who don't accept contactees under any circumstances, since they feel their reputations, if not their entire belief systems, would fall if they don't show the photograph to look like a hoax. Spaulding is on record many years back as saying that all UFOs are fakes except for those our (or other?) governments have constructed. I don't see any way of making progress in this respect, for those who don't wish to accept the uncontrovertible evidence that certain of Meier's photos/films could not have been hoaxed, and who don't wish to accept any of the supporting witnesses statements, and who instead point to a photo enlargement like what's in your web site. Perhaps if you and Korff could get together with Wendelle Stevens and entice him to loan out one of his 2nd-generation internegatives or prints from that series to a mutually trusted capable photo-analyst, such as Bruce Maccabee, and search on it for strings, etc., and require that this analyst report his findings, would that do it? If not, well then you'd need to get Wendelle's permission to repeat with still another 2nd-generation print. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 UFO FAQ Update From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 01:31:05 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 02:27:43 -0400 Subject: UFO FAQ Update Dear readers, My UFO FAQ has been updated recently. . The Aurora spy plane. Find out why there is a massive body of evidence for the existence of this plane. Also: its flight characteristics, revolutionary propulsion and why the Federation of American Scientists thinks that projects like the Aurora cannot be understood outside the scope of the UFO phenomenon. . The current status of the SETI projects, the projects that use large radio telescopes to eavesdrop on signals from the universe. Organized science has practically given up on SETI, but anyone with a PC and some equipment can now join the search. www.ufoic.com/faq __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Hallmark Grays From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 02:31:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 02:31:28 -0400 Subject: Hallmark Grays From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Another Question for Kal From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 20:25:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 02:33:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal > Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 22:46:05 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Another Question for Kal > At 08:25 PM 08/02/97 -0400, Roger R. Prokic wrote: > >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 18:06:54 GMT > >Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Another Question for Kal > >From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > >To: updates@globalserve.net --------------Snip------------------- > There are those of us who are wondering if Kal will not only > respond to Rebecca's two posts addressed to him, but post > supporting documentation that "proves" that Art Bell "conspired" > to keep him off the radio and prevent him from telling "the > truth about the Phoenix sightings". Kal Korff in a post to this list dated 7/17 made the following comment: "...I have decided (barring unforseen circumstances) that my next book will be an expose of Mr. Richard Hoagland, his criminal past, etc...." From first hand knowledge I know Art Bell was incensed by this, and the word libel came up. Now all of a sudden, as Rebecca mentioned in her 8/1 post to Kal, he isn't interested in doing that any more, and feels Art "conspired" to keep him off the radio. Perhaps someone who has no better sense than to make such statements in a public forum doesn't have the kind of credibility most radio hosts want to be associated with, much less risk whatever he might say next. I hope Kal goes through with scheduling an appearance on Art's program. Now THAT is something I'd stay up all night to listen to. Dave Vetterick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Crop Circle Connector #36 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 05:59:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 02:34:28 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #36 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #36 Members = 1978 What's New on the Crop Circle Connector. Wednesday 6th August 1997 ******************************************************************* The What`s New page at:- htt://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/whatsnew.html New issue of The Spiral No 21 August 1997 OUT NOW!! ------------------------------------------- New issue of The SC No 67 August 1997 OUT NOW!! --------------------------------------------- The Centre of Crop Circle Studies Presents a London Conference COSMIC COMMUNICATIONS THROUGH TIME: Past Present and Future Saturday 30th of August 1997 at Westminster London. ----------------------------------------------------- Andy Thomas` New Book "QUEST FOR CONTACT" is out now and The Crop circle Connector highly recommends it! ------------------------------------------------------- The 1998 Glastonbury Symposium DATES FIXED for Next Year 1998 ******************************************************************* Updates on Crop Circles of 1997 at:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html Update of The Henwood Down report 'THE ANT' Diagram included with Peter Sorenson's report. -------------------------------------------------- Update of Cosford, Nr Rugby, Warwickshire with a new aerial shot by Lucy Pringle. -------------------------------------------------- Update of St Neots, Nr Bedford, Cambridgeshire with a new aerial shot by Lucy Pringle. -------------------------------------------------- Update of Haselbury Plucknett, Nr Crewkerne, Somerset with the first aerial shot by Lucy Pringle. ------------------------------------------------ Update of the 1st formation 0f 1997 Sennen, Cornwall with a ground shot. -------------------------------------------------- Update with three ground shots of the formation at Down Thomas, Staddis Combe, Nr Plymouth, Devon. ************************************************** NEW Crop Circles of 1997 at:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html 2 New Formations near BARNSLEY at Dodworth. Report by Nick Nicholson, Editor of the Circular Review. ------------------------------------------------ New Formation at Toot Balden, Nr Oxford, Oxfordshire. ------------------------------------------------- New Formation at Flitwick in Bedfordshire. ************************************************************* International Crop Circles at:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/1997/inter97.html New Formation Groenstraat Heikant Province Zeeland The Netherlands with diagram. First aerial shot of the Silver Creek Falls formation , near Salem, Oregon. USA by Keith Ardinger. ********************************************************************* The Crop Circle Connector is AGAIN (if you missed it last night) asking its readers to support us by supporting our Crop Circle photographer Steve Alexander to continue to fly around the fields of England and bring you these beautiful images. On Monday Night we sent you a text version of the ordering form. But we discovered that the pound symbol was removed from the text. It has caused confusion among several people, so we are resending the text with the word pound to make it clear. Please Please Please fill in the order slip and send it off to Steve this week. ********************************************************************** ORDER FORM Please send to: 27 St Francis Road, Gosport, Hants. PO12 2UG England. PHOTOGRAPHIC SETS: Please state quantity of each set required in spaces below 1. 1994 set - 12 photographs (UK 10 pounds - Overseas 12 pounds) (..........) [This set includes spectacular images such as The Web, The Galaxy and Scorpion formations.] 2. 1995 set - 20 photographs (UK 18 pounds - Overseas 20 pounds) (..........) [This set includes many fantastic formations from 1995 such as The Asteriod Belts.] 3. 1996 set - 15 photographs (UK 15 pounds - Overseas 17 pounds) (..........) 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If you would like to order Individual 6x4 photographs at 1 pounds each please state how many you require in space: (..........) *Postage inclusive for UK / Overseas orders please add 2 pounds for each order not each photograph If you would like specific photographs of any crop formation please give details below, including location and year: (....................................................................... ......................... ...................................)(................................... ......................... ........................................................................ ...) If you need more space please use back of this form. NEW! THERE ARE NOW 30 PHOTOGRAPHS AVAILABLE FROM 1997 - WE'VE ALREADY HAD AN AMAZING START TO THE SEASON Please state how many 6x4s you require (..........) 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Alfred's Odd Ode #165 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 07:14:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:14:42 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #165 Apology to MW #165 (For August 6, 1997) Kal Korff's entitled to personal views. He is only what I make him. I can't read his books, but reviewers have a look. And they read that he writes specious phlegm. What he proposes in space on the list Shines a narrow beam, It ignores the greater questions -- A prevaricators dream. Dreams that involve bi-dimensional realms. Dreams that all is well. Dreams that enigma's prosaic -- explained. Dreams warm and fuzzy, harmonious -- "swell." Dreams we're unwatched from without, and deep down. Dreams we're aware and unhurt. Dreams about a simpler world. Dreams of a bunkie -- from darkness he works. There is more that Kal misses is why he scares me. He tries to validate distorted history. He punches tickets for CSICOP reviews -- Writes checks on anomalous mystery. I can see him at the bottom of our enigmatic pond. He is fanning at the silt stuff, plain to see. He is living obfuscation -- twill be the death of us. . .=20 He is writing FOR the shadows, and he does it for a fee! Rebecca Schatte has his number. Rebecca Schatte sees him plain. Rebecca Schatte sees him coming. Rebecca Schatte has a brain! And David Rudiak is rudi-active! He matches point for anti point! On a balance with Kal, Dave touches down; And Kal's out of favor -- hard to reach -- out of joint. And thank the good lord for small favors!=20 That someone else could clearly see That Jesse Sr. was a HERO, And not the "goof" Kal paints him to be. What does he gain to blunt our sword tip? It's not just money; that just can't be! One still has to shave and so, then, look in a mirror. Oh -- but Kal wears a beard. Now I get it! Now I see! Lehmberg@sowhill.com Allowing that all could be as the bunkies say it is -- I have 23 years experience as a military aviator -- I've never seen any kind of behavior of flares, or array of flares like what I saw in the different footages over Phoenix that fateful night. I've seen, used, and fired a lot of flares, folks, from hand held to 2.75 FFAR. My position -- this was _not_ an array of flares. Moreover -- flares fired (in criminal waste) at 15,000 feet would be=85ludicrous. . . in that they might pose a safety hazard were the spent rounds allowed to drift as they may. The unit safety officer should have a talk with these pilots; a parachute sucked into the intake of a civil jet might be another. . . unexplained. . . crash. --=20 Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for pointing out that Kal wore no clothes. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies=20 (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind=20 in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not=20 living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented=20 support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." =20 ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: SETI From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Aug 97 08:15:02 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:15:40 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI I'd like to throw out some ideas regarding SETI and see if others agree. Basically, I regard searching for radio signals as a means of finding intelligent life elsewhere as a waste of time. Here's my reasoning. We've been using radio as a communications medium for a little over a hundred years, and TV for around 60 years. We are already seeing an end to the era of broadcast radio and TV as we move to cable, directed satellite transmissions, etc. I think the "window" during which a civilization uses radio as a communications medium will be a couple hundred years, at most. So, if we are searching for other civilizations, of which there are probably billions, we will find that using radio we are going to be looking only for those civilizations which are roughly at the same level of development as we are within that very narrow window. I think this number will be quite small. I don't think that there is any credible evidence that UFOs use radio of any sort as a communications medium. Yet, I'm certain that they can communicate with one another. What comes after radio? We certainly don't know at this stage in our development, but I'm certain that it is something we know little or nothing about at present. If telepathy really exists, as I think it does, future communications will probably use some form of it. How do we scan the skies for telepathic signals???? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: SETI From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 21:38:46 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Date: 06 Aug 97 08:15:02 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: SETI > I'd like to throw out some ideas regarding SETI and see > if others agree. Basically, I regard searching for radio > signals as a means of finding intelligent life elsewhere as > a waste of time. Here's my reasoning. > We've been using radio as a communications medium for a little > over a hundred years, and TV for around 60 years. We are already > seeing an end to the era of broadcast radio and TV as we > move to cable, directed satellite transmissions, etc. I think > the "window" during which a civilization uses radio as a > communications medium will be a couple hundred years, at most. > So, if we are searching for other civilizations, of which > there are probably billions, we will find that using radio > we are going to be looking only for those civilizations which > are roughly at the same level of development as we are within > that very narrow window. I think this number will be quite > small. Hello Bob, I think your reasoning here is quite sound, and has been used by quite a few others in the past, within ufology. If you ask what comes after radio, and allow alien civilizations to be not just a few centuries advanced over us (which like you say would be quite rare) but thousands or hundreds of thousands of years more advanced, then personal visitations in advanced vehicles would be expected. One can learn a lot more that way! So there are also many ufologists who think SETI is silly because of so much evidence indicating we have been and are being visited by aliens within UFOs. We can read what their contactees or abductees have been told, and don't have to wait until astronomers or NASA decides to inform the public of the biggest event of the past two millennia -- receipt of an intelligent radio message from the stars! Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 21:42:42 -0400 Subject: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 Interesting item from Jim Moseley's most excellent "Saucer Smear," Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997: "In a press release dated June 12th, Prometheus Books (the publishing arm of the dreaded CSICOP organization) discusses a threatened lawsuit from Ray Santilli's organization in England. The subject, of course, is the infamous alien autopsy video, stills from which were used in Kal K. Korff's recent book for Prometheus, called The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You to Know. "Says Dr. Paul Kurtz of CSICOP: "the promoters of the alien autopsy film are claiming copyright infringement. However, if their footage is authentic as they claim, then there can be no copyright violation because the film belongs to the United States government and the American people. You can't copyright government property."" [end excerpt] We've all heard this before. Best of luck to Prometheus in drawing a lawsuit out of the Santilli crowd. Perhaps, in a court of law, we can get some answers. And could this be the reason that my neighborhood Super Crown Bookstore, still does not have Kal's book? The bookstore claims the book is not even available for order as it has been on backorder since before the publishing date. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: SETI From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:17:21 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 21:46:47 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI > Date: 06 Aug 97 08:15:02 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: SETI > I'd like to throw out some ideas regarding SETI and see > if others agree. Basically, I regard searching for radio > signals as a means of finding intelligent life elsewhere as > a waste of time. Here's my reasoning. > So, if we are searching for other civilizations, of which > there are probably billions, we will find that using radio > we are going to be looking only for those civilizations which > are roughly at the same level of development as we are within > that very narrow window. I think this number will be quite > small. Yes, Bob, I would agree. That has been my basic criticism for SETI since I heard about it back in astronomy classes in university. Radio seems so illogical, it's almost sad that Carl devoted so much time and effort to it, and ironic that his book based on his belief is so successful. But there's another aspect to it, too. Although we've had been broadcasting SETI signals for a while, we haven't really been at it long, astronomically speaking. In fact, we only "announced" our presence in the EM spectrum during WWII, when radar began pouring out into space. I don't count the period before that when signals were orders of magnitude weaker. Given that it's only been about 50 years since then, our energy signature would really have been only visible about that long. Therefore, only civilizations within a 50-year SHELL < :) > would have detected us. Now, the number of sunlike stars within 50 ly is not large, really, and given the probabilities used in revised Drake equations, it's possible that our signature hasn't *yet* reached a spacefaring civilization, even a "nearby" one. But here's the kicker ... given that even Sagan acknowledged there were "many" sentient civilizations in the galaxy, sooner or later one or more will "notice" us (if they haven't already). It could be that we'll be discovered any day now, or next month, or next year ... The point is that given our power signature was rather limited until quite recently, and given that the nearest civilization would be statistically about 50 to 100 ly from us, it's possible that we're a bit ahead of the game and just need to be patient for a while longer. Of course, if the SETI premise is correct, if our signal has *just* reached a civilization only 50 ly from us, it will be another 50 years before we can expect a reply. Or, if faster-than-light travel is possible, we might have *just* been noticed, meaning of course that the alien flotilla will be arriving any day now. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: SETI From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:01:08 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 21:50:53 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI > Date: 06 Aug 97 08:15:02 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: SETI > So, if we are searching for other civilizations, of which > there are probably billions, we will find that using radio > we are going to be looking only for those civilizations which > are roughly at the same level of development as we are within > that very narrow window. I think this number will be quite > small. Even if broadcast technologies continue to be used, it is quite likely they will be digital and multiplexed. I have grave doubts that such a transmission would look anything like the "regular" signal (analog pulses in a regular form), that SETI researchers are likely to be interested in. In fact, it would probably look like noise. Of course, TV signals already are multiplexed, and have a complex internal format which must be decoded by an analog receiver with certain specific (and not exactly universal) characteristics, so I have to wonder how someone without knowledge of NTSC or PAL would a) identify a TV signal as artificial (frequency perhaps?), and b) figure out about fields, frames, subcarriers, etc. One thing seems sure to me - it wouldn't be easy. The only thing they are likely to find is a civilization that is purposely broadcasting the kind of signal SETI folks are looking for. That may be an even smaller window than the one you mention. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 22:07:57 -0400 Subject: Re: In a message dated 97-08-06 05:06:42 EDT, you write: > From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock} > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:40:18 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Errata re: Re: Bursting the Balloon > > GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- Its seems of late I'm spending all too much time > correcting/clarifying myself on matters which wouldn't be a problem if I > didn't rush things when spreading disinformation online. Sigh... > > This time, I'm indebted to the (Horrors!) Dread Robert Todd for pointing out > a problem to me. No, I pointed out the problem on UFO Updates. > It seems that in my haste back about July 26 I misquoted > the famous FBI telex (Dallas to FBI Cincinnati and FBI hqrs.) of 8 July, 1947 > (note correct MJ-12 date format). It does NOT describe the radar target as > being 25 feet in diameter as misquoted it as doing, but rather said the > balloon from which the "disc [which] is hexagonal in shape" was suspended > "was approximately twenty feet in diameter." I damn' well should have > checked rather than working from memory (no bonus from MJ-1 this quarter). Notice how Pflock doesn't finish the FBI quote below, as he tries to spin his way out of a jam with a ridiculous semantic argument. > > However, there is no way to tell if the reference to a 20-foot diameter was > specific to balloon material, or to the area covered by all the debris > recovered or just what. What possible difference could it make? The very next line in the telegram says: "Further advised that the object found resembled a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector." I already quoted this is my first response to Pflock. The FBI and allegedly Wright Field were told that it was a singular weather balloon and a singular radar reflector, just like other singular weather balloons carrying singular radar reflectors. Why would Wright Field be confused by any of this? I also pointed out various quotes from contemporary newspapers in which Ramey was describing a weather balloon and radar reflector before Marcel even arrived at Fort Worth. He told the Washington Post that he'd just gone to take a look at it and that it was 25 feet in diameter. That was the origin of the figure. But there is nothing in the Fort Worth photos which shows anything remotely like something 20 or 25 feet in diameter. It shows a crumpled weather balloon at Ramey's feet and the partial remains of one radar reflector. > The main feature of the telex is that there > obviously existed some confusion on the part of > the people at Fort Worth and Wright Field as to > exactly what the debris was. "Telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not borne out this belief." Again, I repeat the question I originally raised, but which is being dodged by Pflock. How would anybody distinguish the debris in the photos and the description in the telegram from an ordinary weather balloon with radar reflector used by military weather stations all over the country? As I pointed out, they used exactly the same radar reflector at the Army's weather center at Wilmington, Ohio, less than 30 miles from Wright Field. One was shown being launched there the next day. And a few days before, one was recovered in Circleville, Ohio, only 40 miles east of there, and immediately identified by the Army Wilmington weather bureau. The Columbus "Citizen" was told on July 6 by one of the weather officers that "Every weather station in the country uses them." > That's clear from the teletype, and relates to the > often asked question, Why would they bother to send > the stuff on to Wright Field if weather officer > Newton had already identified it at Fort Worth? > The FBI teletype clearly shows there was some confusion. But how could there have been any confusion? Why was this weather balloon and radar reflector different from all others? What was the distinguishing characteristic that would make Wright Field insist that it be shipped on? First Pflock claimed it was because the telegram described a 20 foot radar reflector. When that was shot down, he backpedaled and claimed it was because they had to know what the 20 foot balloon description meant. Am I the only one to think that this "explanation" sounds like complete nonsense? > The point is that confusion existed, The point is, Pflock is deliberately confusing the issue trying to talk his way out of a jam. We still don't have a decent answer to the question why they would bother to ship a nondescript weather balloon and radar target to Wright Field. >so the material was sent on to Wright Field, And again I ask (not expecting to receive a reply), why would they think Mogul was involved if all they had were the "remnant of a weather balloon and a radar reflector." [Ramey, quoted in New York "P.M.", well before Newton IDed the material.] Even Newton thought it was just one of their ordinary meteorological weather balloons and Rawin targets: "They are being used by some 80 weather stations in the United States, and this one could have come from any one of them." >where Col. Duffy identified it, since he was THE authority on >meteorological equipment (and Mogul) at that base. And exactly how did Duffy distinguish it from identical radar targets and weather balloons, such as used at nearby Wilmington? Remember, this shipment of a rubber balloon and radar target remnant was considered so damn important, they allegedly couldn't even wait until morning to have Duffy identify it. They had to rouse Duffy from his beauty sleep, if you believe the charming but uncorroborated anecdote of Col. Trakowski. And naturally, some paperwork would have been generated by all this. Duffy would have written some sort of report. A record of the arrival of the plane at Wright would have been made. And the eventually disposition of the debris and case would have been noted somewhere. This paperwork which might prove they went through the trouble to ship a weather balloon to Wright Field to satisfy their curiousity over what was meant by 20 feet in diameter is where exactly? And Trakowski noted exactly where in Mogul records what became of their little lost balloon? And the fellow Mogul people he informed were who exactly, so they could make a log of it, like they did with their other balloons? > As I was checking what I'd written about the FBI message, I noticed I'd also > introduced some possible confusion about Major Marcel, when I wrote: > "[W]hile he seems to have been a good officer, if a bit excitable and prone > to magnify problems (as per his fitness reports)...." It's entirely > reasonable to assume... Assume? Pflock means he couldn't be bothered to read the actual reports to see if that's what they said. > from this that Marcel's fitness reports suggested he > was "excitable." In truth, they do not. Yes, in truth they do not. They say exactly the opposite. Blanchard's evaluations were very explicit in saying that Marcel was very cool under pressure and LEAST characterized as being excitable or apt to lose his head. > This term was used in describing him by > former officers who knew and worked with him, And right back to Pflock's anonymous officers. We know that Blanchard knew and worked with him, and we can DOCUMENT from Blanchard's evaluations, plus those of other NAMED superior officers, that they characterized Marcel as being cool under pressure. > one of whom said this to me: "Jesse was a fine man and a good friend, but he was an excitable Cajun." Oh brother! And this man was who exactly? Reluctant Jr.? > As for the fitness reports Notice how Pflock is totally contradicting himself here. First he admits that he was wrong and that excitability WASN'T a trait noted in Marcel's fitness reports. Now he reverses himself completely, and tries to claim that it was. And all this in the space of one paragraph. This is one slippery propagandist! >, see, e.g., that dated 6 May, 1948, which states, > "His only known weakness is an inclination to magnify problems he is > confronted with." Having written and been the subject of such reports, it > is clear to me the fact the reviewing officer Back to his debunking mind reading act. The "reviewing officer" was Col. Blanchard, if Pflock would actually bother to read the evaluation. I think even Karl Pflock knows this was the same Col. Blanchard who was C/O of Roswell base and issued the crashed disk press release. But listening to Pflock, allegedly he did this after listening to the tales of his "excitable Cajun" intelligence officer, not being capable of calling for a second opinion or identifying tinfoil and balsa wood on his own. > saw fit to highlight this point in an otherwise glowing assessment demonstrates this >"inclination" had been a problem. Obviously, not much of one, because the statement isn't reflected anywhere else in Blanchard's two evaluations post-Roswell. Blanchard also saw fit to highlight the following characteristics of Marcel: "A quiet, mature field grade officer" "Has a quiet, dignified bearing" "A quiet, unassuming officer" "Businesslike" "Reserved" "Serious minded" "Cool under all circumstances" "Meets situations without bias and without emotional upset" But thanks to Karl Pflock, we can safely ignore all this and trust "Son of Reluctant" that Marcel was really an "excitable Cajun." > (I'll bet even Kevin Randle will concur in this, though perhaps not publicly.) I can't imagine why he would concur, since this alleged trait isn't reflected in any of Marcel's fitness reports, from Blanchard or anybody else. All of them noted he was cool under pressure. These were from actual superior officers with real names who worked with him in the field. And these were written 50 years ago, not now, when Marcel character assassination seems to have become fashionable. But Kevin Randle will have to speak for himself. > My apologies to the list, Jesse Marcel's family Yeah, I'm sure the Marcel family appreciates the double-talk and "excitable Cajun" remark. Great apology. >and above all MJ-1. > > Up the Cover Up! -- MJ-NAUGHT And after talking out of both sides of his mouth, evading any real discussion of the many points I raised in my first post, Pflock tries to make light of the whole thing, just like he tries to joke about his "Kurt Peters" hoaxing past. This Klass Klown act seems to be real common among the Roswell debunkers on this group. Brookesmith, Stacey, and Stepkowski also leap immediately to mind. These weak attempts at humor are nothing but side-show diversions from the great intellectual void at the center of their arguments, IMHO. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 6 Origin Of 'Dummy' Explanation And Wright-Patterson From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 01:15:53 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 23:30:22 -0400 Subject: Origin Of 'Dummy' Explanation And Wright-Patterson Contrary to what many people think the AF's 'dummy' explanation on the alien bodies allegedly found near Roswell is not a new invention. The suggestion was already put forward by Air Force historian Bruce Ashcroft in 1995, as this report from two MORA (Mid-Ohio Research Associates) shows. Besides it gives an equally far-fetched explanation on the alien bodies allegedly kept at the Wright-Patterson Air Force base. It can be found on MORA's site at http://www.infinet.com/~moraman/mora/greenmen.html MORA is 'dedicated to the investigation and research of UFO related phenomena'. THE LITTLE GREEN MEN OF WRIGHT-PATT by Irena Scott, Ph.D. and William E. Jones, JD There are green men at Ohio�s Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and they appear to be alien. We know. We have seen them. However, contrary to our ufological expectations, they are not little. ******* It was late May of this year. The General Accounting Office�s (GAO) investigation into the Roswell, New Mexico flying saucer crash story was reportedly winding down to a closure. Bruce Ashcroft, the historian for the US Air Force�s National Air Intelligence Center (NAIC), who had been given the task of going through the records of his organization to see what he could find that related to this story, had completed his efforts. Along the way he had met a lot of people who were, in one way or another, connected to the UFO research community. Stanton Friedman, Phillip Klass, Robert Todd, Kevin Randle, Don Schmitt, and many others had offered Bruce their thoughts, opinions, prejudices, and information. We were lucky to have been included in that esteemed assemblage. So, when Bruce called and invited us down for a personal visit to�see the little green men at Wright-Patt, we couldn�t turn him down. The trip was to be a bit nostalgic, in that Bruce was soon to be leaving Wright-Patt for a new job as the historian for the Air Training Command at Randolph Air Force Base near San Antonio, Texas. Bruce�s search through the Air Force records and archives had turned up nothing to indicate that what had occurred at Roswell, New Mexico in July of 1947 was extraterrestrial or alien in nature. He found no records of expense reports indicating that anyone in the Air Force had made an unusual trip to Roswell. Examination of Air Force materials research in the years following the alleged retrieval of alien material exhibiting unusual properties showed no change that would indicate a leap in the state-of-the-art expected from such a retrieval. The records of this research were surprisingly quite complete. What Bruce did discover was a vast panoply of Air Force research and testing projects that were relatively unknown to the general public which could have, under the right circumstances, led to rumors of alien technology. The problem he faced when attempting to determine if any given project could have caused such a rumor was the incompleteness of the records. This was not because of any apparent conspiracy. Few of the records Bruce was interested in are now classified. Their incompleteness resulted from a need for private companies doing aerospace research to protect proprietary information involved in unsuccessful projects, poor governmental and company record keeping, the passage of time and the resulting need of archivists to cull their archives to allow for the storage of more up-to-date records, and simply the loss of records during moves and long term storage. As a historian, Bruce decries this loss of a part of our technological history. After many months of effort, Bruce has concluded that the debris field on the Foster Ranch which was found by Mac Brazel is best explained as a downed Mogul balloon. This story has been told often enough elsewhere, so there is no need to repeat it here. Bruce believes, but cannot directly prove, that at least two of the Roswell era stories concerning bodies being found in the desert next to crashed space craft can be explained by advanced test devices which came down onto the desert floor with advanced forms of anthropomorphic test dummies aboard. During his research he found evidence of the widespread development and use of instrumented human dummies, as well as the use of monkeys and chimpanzees in such research. He believes, with a little luck, further research into this area might unearth archival material that could explain at least some of the flying saucer crash stories which have come out of the southwestern United States over the past forty five years, the same area where most of this research occurred. Thus, in all of his efforts on behalf of the US Air Force to respond to the GAO inquiry, he had found nothing that was alien -- that is, until he helped convene a reunion -- an alumni day of Blue Book personnel in 1994 at the twenty-fifth anniversary of the project�s closure. All three living Project Blue Book directors, Robert Friend, George Gregory, and Hector Quintanilla, attended the reunion. Gus Simpson, the project manager of Battelle Memorial Institute�s prime contractor support for the project, and now retired, was also there. During a panel discussion a woman stood up in the audience to tell the story of the not-so-little green men that were still at Wright-Patt. Very few of the attendees were aware of this story, including Bruce. During World War II from 1943 through 1946, part of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base served as a prisoner of war camp for between 200 and 400 German soldiers. Surprisingly, no records exist on the base about this camp or who the soldiers were. What evidence has been found elsewhere indicates that the prisoners were Nazi enlisted men captured in North Africa and Italy and transported to the United States after the POW camps in England became full. Not a single photograph of the prisoners has yet to be found. Only recently was the location of the camp determined with any certainty. It was located on a hilltop at Wright Field in what is now Area B. Many of the prisoners worked nearby at what was then Patterson Field now Areas A and C. These prisoners worked in supply warehouses loading and unloading rail cars on the grounds and roads of the base and served food in the mess halls serving the two Fields. One of the warehouses in Area C was converted into a dining hall for use by the prisoners. That warehouse is now Building 289 across the street from what is now the NAIC�s headquarters building. On the walls of the prisoners� mess hall German POW artists had painted a huge mural depicting gargoyle-like figures out of Germanic folklore. One of these painted walls survives in a long narrow hallway of the mess hall now converted to office use. On this wall, about 20 feet high by 70 feet long, appear large brightly colored figures with eyelids and lips of red and skin colored primarily green with touches of black -- the little green men of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. The wall is now protected as the last surviving significant prisoner of war in US Air Force bases around the country. The wall was dedicated in 1992 by the then base commander Col. William B. Orellans. It is hoped that the wall will be listed in the National Register of Historic Places. Are these colorful figures really the source of the seemingly endless number of stories that have been shared by UFO researchers over the years about alien bodies that have been studied and stored at Wright-Patt? Bruce, of course, isn�t sure. However, it is possible he feels that they played some small part in the folklore that seems to have been created over the years concerning the presence of alien bodies on the base. As such, these figures -- the colorful mural in Building 289 -- deserve at least honorable mention in the comprehensive history of ufology which most assuredly will one day be written by one of our descendants. And less we and our ancestors forget, not all folklore is fiction. BRUCE ASHCROFT As Bruce leaves his job as the historian for the National Air Intelligence Center (NAIC) in early July, one of the Air Force�s unique UFO spokespersons will slip into ufological history. In recent years, no one in the US government has spoken so forthrightly about the subject of UFOs nor been as accessible as has Bruce Ashcroft. Always careful to point out his personal views as separate from those of the US Air Force, Bruce never once dishonored his profession or his employer. When asked his personal views about UFOs, Bruce replied that if some of the reported sightings are unexplainable from a prosaic point of view, he would guess that the best explanation for their source would be other dimensions. He recommended that we read the book Hyperspace - A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps, and The Tenth Dimension by Michio Kaku, published in 1994 by Oxford University Press. Part of our visit to Wright-Patt included our attendance at the last of Bruce�s informal lunch time briefings for National Air Intelligence Center employees in the center�s main conference room on the history of NAIC. The subject of this last one hour briefing was about Project Blue Book. Included in the presentation was a twenty minute video taped interview that Bruce had arranged earlier between Dayton TV-2 news reporter Carl Day and one time head of Project Blue Book Hector Quintanilla and a rare 1950�s tongue-in-cheek Movie Tone newsreel narrated by Lowell Thomas about the US Air Force�s attempt to track down flying saucers using P-51 aircraft. About 30 officers, enlisted men, and civilians attended the briefing. After the briefing was over questions and comments were accepted from the floor. It became quickly quite clear that there is not unanimity of opinion among the employees of the US Air Force about the subject of UFOs. One officer was skeptical that all of the reports about UFOs in Air Force custody had been declassified, including a secret message that he had once seen regarding the pursuit of a UFO by an Air Force pilot. He asked Bruce if he thought the message would be declassified by now. Bruce replied in the affirmative and then reminded everyone that uncleared people were in the room, i.e., us. Fortunately, for the sake of national security, nothing classified had been revealed. Another officer asked Bruce if he had found any evidence supporting the often stated view that Project Blue Book was nothing more than a public relations cover for another UFO study project elsewhere. Bruce replied that he had not. Bruce was supported in this view by a response provided by Hector Quintanilla when asked the same question by Carl Day during the video taped interview noted above. Quintanilla added to his own negative reply by stating that he had no knowledge about other UFO projects, so he couldn�t say if there were any. A civilian employee offered a clearly different point of view from Bruce�s, noting for the audience that even within the Air Force not all information is shared even among those who have a seeming need to know, as Bruce did during his GAO initiated investigation. When asked later about this person�s views, Bruce replied that this individual seems to like finding conspiracies everywhere. It�s nice to know that viewpoints concerning UFOs within the Air Force are no different from those that exist within the civilian UFO research community. We all see the subject from different points of view. We asked Bruce if he has ever tried to talk with General Arthur B. Exon, the commander of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base starting in August of 1964. General Exon has made a number of confirming statements with regard to the flying saucer crash at Roswell, that alien material and bodies had been brought to the base, and that a special project had been set up to handle the material. Bruce responded that Exon�s statements were easily understood and not supportive of the story. He noted that as commander of the base he was responsible for the maintenance of the base infrastructure and, as such, he would not have been privy to all that the various agencies housed on the base were involved in. Bruce believed General Exon�s statements had little probative value and, for this reason, he had not been contacted. After leaving the auditorium and returning to the public area of the building, two men in civilian clothing who had been at the briefing approached Bruce and asked him if he had ever talked to a man by the name of John G. Tiffany. It turns out that this individual apparently works at Wright-Patt. According to the book The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell by Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt, Tiffany�s father was dispatched from Wright Field to pick up the Roswell bodies at Fort Worth. According to Tiffany, as noted in this book, his father picked up metallic debris and a large cylinder that reminded him of a large thermos bottle. It is uncertain whether the elder Tiffany ever saw the bodies themselves, but certainly the father saw something important. The two men asked Bruce if he was going to question Tiffany and Bruce replied in the negative. He later explained this to us by saying that Tiffany was probably tired of all of the questions about his story from civilian investigators and he probably wouldn�t talk to Bruce. We were surprised by the apparent reluctance on Bruce�s part to talk to people who were reasonably accessible to him. There may have been some justifiable but unspoken reason for this in the two instances noted herein. However, given the severe criticism the Air Force received on this very issue with regard to its summary report on Roswell, known informally as the Weaver Report, we were understandably sensitive to this issue. His reluctance left us with the impression that Bruce may have been given the green light to undertake an honest research effort, but perhaps within certain boundaries. For the record, we asked Bruce if he had seen anything in the archives at NAIC that confirmed the existence of and the content of the missing Project Blue Book Report Number 13. Twelve Project Blue Book progress reports are on the public record, as is the final report numbered 14. The existence of Number 13 has never been confirmed, although it has been the subject of many rumors. Some have said that the number 13 wasn�t used because the number is unlucky, and others have said that it was used for the draft of Number 14 and was destroyed once the final report was published. We think these two explanations are highly unlikely, and so does Bruce. Bruce replied to our question with a negative response; Number 13 still remains a rumor. Was Bruce in some way acting in a role assigned to him as part of the infamous cover-up? We can�t say. There were aspects of his work that some might interpret that way, such as seeming reluctant to interview some important witnesses. Bruce voiced his concern on more than one occasion that, because he is an Air Force Intelligence employee, people will assume that he is part of the cover-up. He assured us that he is not. Of course, based upon our relationship with Bruce, we can�t say for sure. All we can say is that Bruce treated us and the subject of UFOs with respect and he voiced criticisms on more than one occasion concerning how the Air Force had handled various aspects of the UFO question poorly, especially with regard to public relations matters. Bruce stated that being more open with information about its past technological history would go a long way toward improving the Air Force�s public image. He also was willing to express his personal opinions concerning the subject which certainly didn�t always follow the party line. If Bruce is part of the cover-up he is a refreshing part. In any event, his career is taking him away from the UFO subject as he moves into his new job. His new area of concern will be training. After the excitement of dealing with UFOs, we think Bruce might soon get a bit bored. Bruce leaves his job with a wealth of information, personal contacts inside and outside the government, and a unique point of view. When we asked if he would ever write a book about all this, he was noncommittal. However, we don�t think the world has heard the last of Bruce Ashcroft, his views of UFOs, and the little green men of Wright-Patt. 1995 Mid-Ohio Research Associates, Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 02:18:24 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 00:12:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Found at "Windchaser Films": http://www.windchaser.com/news/misc/alf/ I give you the page as it is. In the beginning there are quite a number of links which I have put in brackets. The actual text is found subsequent to those. Object Investigation=20 All materials herein are copyright =A91997 by Lan Lamphere=20 On May 25, 1997, around 7:30 PM (CDT), the Windchaser storm crew took photos and video footage of a developing tornado just west of Loco, a small town in southern Oklahoma. Two weeks later Lan Lamphere, our director, found that a segment of video that he had taken was not just of a wall cloud and funnel! Lan does not believe that this is any sort of extra-terrestrial life (though it is unidentified and quite spectacular); in fact, he is trying not to hold an opinion until various consulted experts give their opinions. To quote him: "I'm just trying to find the truth in this matter." =20 (Above is one of the 49 frames captured from video in which the object is seen. There are 30 frames in one second of video, so the object only appears for approximately 1.5 seconds, traveling from right to left across the screen. Click on this for a larger, mapped view of the object.) =20 What do you think?=20 (Post a message, your opinions, or any comments at The Windchaser Chatter Board)=20 (Article by Richard Bedard, author of "In the Shadow of the Tornado") (Testimonial by KOCO-TV Storm Chaser who captured second view on tape Updated!!!) (Editorials by Lan Lamphere) (Area 51 Chat Board (some friends who have an interest ... you are welcome to drop by.)=20 (Preliminary Report by Jeff Sainio, Photoanalyst (we are still awaiting the independent report commissioned by KOCO-TV in Oklahoma City ... They have not sent the tape as of yet) Updated!!!) (Meteorological Data) (AVI File back by popular demand (still pretty big so be patient). This file is not the complete video (only contains 23 of the 49 frames). Otherwise, it would be even more of a monster to download than it is! We're hoping to get a compressed QT or MPEG version shortly that won't be quite as large.) =20 (Shown at right is a contrast-enhanced segment of the sequence. Enhancement using the tools that we have at hand has indicated that this is not a shadow, reflection of light, or other illusion. Click on this image to view another interesting frame in this sequence.) =20 =20 On May 25,1997, 5 miles west of Loco, Oklahoma our chase team set up a time lapse photography on a storm that had produced a tornado 30 minutes earlier in Duncan, Oklahoma. As we watched the storm, we talked about what direction we would be taking further south to keep up with the storm.=20 At 7:21 pm, our group was filming on the side of the highway when a funnel cloud began to develop to the right and the front of the meso. I set my digital camera up on the tripod and began rolling on the funnel. That day finished out as one of our better days of chasing for this year. We all drove back towards Norman that evening having filmed 3 tornados and 2 funnels.=20 Two weeks later...=20 Two weeks later, my friend Charles Edwards ask me to help him out with his tour group that had booked in the last two weeks of the storm season. The tour consisted mostly of a Japanese film crew shooting a documentary simular to the movie "Twister", Charles and I, along with Matt Biddle, had been chasing in the Texas panhandle all that week with only a small tornado to star for the Japanese. The director wanted a more dramatic image for his production, so they took off toward Jerrell, Texas to find it in the form of damage. Charles, Matt and myself, all came back to Norman, were we got some rest for the next two days.=20 Charles called me two days later to tell me that the Japanese wanted me to bring some video of the Blanchard and Purcell tornados to a private viewing. I told Charles that I would be there that evening and I would dub a tape and meet him there around 9:30pm. We all met at the Hampton Inn near I-35 in Norman. When I got there the group was just getting started and I was the first to show my video. As the Japanese watched the tape, I sat back talking to Matt Moreland who was sitting to my left. I was interupted by the director of the crew asking me what they were seeing on the tape. I explained that it was a time lapse shot of the rear flank downdraft. A minute or so after, as I watched the big screen tv, a object traveling from right to left at a high rate of speed passed in front of the lens. I got up and got my tape, thanking them for the opportunity to sell, but I was not interested at this time.=20 I went home and sat down almost in a state of shock. I called my friends and we all sat down to look at the tape. In about thirty seconds my life changed. My friends and I sat down together and went over all the happenings of that day in May. We tried to figure out what this thing was that we were seeing. It soon dawned on us that we were not going to get anywhere with that attitude, so we had better rethink our stratagy. We all agreed that it was important to try to find out, but how?=20 We are still learning about this object. I think the biggest thing that we have learned at this point, is what it isn't, rather than what it is. We may never know this last answer, but it will not be because we did not try. "Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truth" (Sherlock Holmes).=20 There will be a longer version of this true story in the future, but right now I just don't have the time to get it over here. I will do my best to update this index a.s.a.p..=20 I would like to thank those folks that have lent their support, time, talent and energy to this effort of understanding. Jared Bostic, Cherokee Ballard, Scott Travis, Rusty at N.S.S.L., KOCO-TV Channel 5 in Oklahoma City, Richard Bedard, Charles Edwards of Cloud 9 Tours, A whole bunch of folks at the University of Oklahoma, the Mesonet, Jean and Richard of MUFON Oklahoma, Jeff Sainio of MUFON, Lt Cmdr Snake of area-51.org, AA5DT Frank Laird, Sharyon Ramsey of R.S.V.P. in Gadsden, Alabama, the Norman Police Department, and above all, my wife Melisa and our children, who have put up with a whole lotta crap the past few weeks.=20 Thanks folks.. You are all good friends. =20 Lan Lamphere =20 =20 Above is a T-Shirt we had created just for fun and to help defray some of the cost in our Object Investigation. The price per shirt is $15 + $3 S/H. If you send an email request, be sure to include your full mailing address and shirt size (s,m,l,xl,xxl).=20 (Back to Windchaser HomePage) =20 Copyright =A91997 Windchaser Films / Revised June 21, 1997 /=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 What price normality for Mankind? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 19:29:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 00:15:17 -0400 Subject: What price normality for Mankind? In reference to: >From: BufoCalvin@aol.com >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:43:31 -0700 >Subject: BWW Media Alert 970731 >SYNDICATED RADIO, ART BELL interviews Bob Guccione, publisher of >HUSTLER MAGAZINE and OMNI (see website at > http://www.artbell.com for more info) Heard Bob on Art Bell last night and I have to say that if he is on the up & up regarding this hydrazine sulphate thing, and I have reason to believe he is, well,... what with all the "kill the messenger" faxes Art alluded to, I find I agree with Art... the message is independant of the messenger. But anyhow, if Guccione stands by his words, then I for one have a notch of respect higher for him. I found room for an elevated opinion of Clinton, so what the heck. Now, on topicality as pertains to UFO. The situation of "cures" and "technology" and stuff like that there -> IF <- aliens are infusing mankind with whatever, and those things are "on the cheap" so to speak, then it just may be that 'the powers that be' want to "control" such for economic reasons. Stands to reason and that's why I am addressing the hydrazine sulphate issue owing to the fact that Bob said it would cost around $150.00 a year for treatment as opposed to $40 -60,000/year. Makes you wonder why the Jews... uh... got rid of the Christian problem they were having 2000 years ago. Probably doctors leading that little squabble over competition in healing. I doubt it was over real estate. Anyway, the issue of what is good for us, not good for us, what cures the government(s) allows us to have, and higher taxes are a given. The main problem has always been that if you see a conspiracy you are some kind of a nut. I am some kind of a nut. I know that the government is lying thru it's teeth for a fact. I have asked around and the consensus among skeptics and quite a few UFO researchers is that Corso is lying. Have they provided proof? No, not a bit. Has Corso provided proof? Apparently. Now comes Bob Guccione and it appears there are plenty of folks crawling out of the woodwork to say he is lying about hydrazine sulphate. Well, here I am, I have evidence that Bob Guccione is NOT lying about hydrazine sulphate. I have also found a local source of supply. Believe it or not there really are doctors using it but for how long before they are cracked down on because it works, and indeed does "cure" cancer. Stuff about medicine and UFO's seem to be blending into yet another conspiracy. Who will be Jesus this time? ~Pat~ http://www.crossfields.com/~pparri
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 US Navy Support Of UFO Research From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:34:29 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 00:29:27 -0400 Subject: US Navy Support Of UFO Research And here's another item from the website of MORA, the Mid-Ohio UFO research association. It can be found on: http://www.infinet.com/~moraman/mora/navy_support.html "BITS AND PIECES" US NAVY SUPPORT OF UFO RESEARCH by Irena Scott, Ph.D. and William E. Jones, JD Bits and pieces of information come from the most unexpected people at the most unexpected times. While canvassing a neighborhood looking for eye witnesses to a local UFO sighting, we had a man tell us just a "bit" about his UFO investigative experiences while he served in the US Navy from the late 1940s to the early 1950s. We shall give this man the pseudonym of Luke Laprad. Mr. Laprad is currently a respected businessman and community leader in Columbus, Ohio. He served in the Navy for ten years, the last few in Turkey at the air base at Adana. When we asked him the number of the unit he was assigned to, he replied, "It didn't exist." When pressed for a number or name, even if unacknowledged at the time, he responded by saying, "I can talk about this stuff in general, but I am sure the details are still secret." You see, Luke was a aircraft navigator and his unit flew secret over flight missions into the Soviet Union. His unit was there until they were replaced by those operating the higher flying U-2 aircraft in the mid-1950s. Because of our expressed interest in UFOs, Mr. Laprad said, "If you twist my arm, I can tell you that I used to investigate those things." He went on to tell us about the purpose of his unit and the surprise secondary purpose that might be every bit as secret as the primary one. "Back in those days," he told us, "UFOs were considered to be a very important matter. When the areas of the Soviet Union which were assigned to us were clouded over, we were frequently assigned to fly to various locations around the world to help indigenous personnel conduct UFO investigations. Many of these missions were to South America. There was a lot going on there, apparently." According to Mr. Laprad, these assignments were for specific investigations. They would fly into the country, pick up a team of investigators and then fly them into the region where the report or reports were to be taken. He said that he didn't learn much about the reports since he spoke neither Spanish or Portuguese. In effect, it seemed that his team acted as "truck drivers" for groups of indigenous military personnel who did not have access to their own aircraft. The final reports were flown back with them to Turkey and then sent back to the Pentagon (apparently not Project Blue Book) in Washington, DC through Oslo, Norway. When asked why they were sent forward via this rather strange route, he replied, "For diplomatic purposes." They were classified "secret" before being forwarded. His group did no analysis of the reports they collected and no information about what they were used for ever came back to them. When we pressed Mr. Laprad for information about specific sightings which he investigated, he became ellusive, indicating that he did not know the language of the countries into which he flew. He admitted that this information might still be classified. Is this information important? Possibly, when put together with other information that we in MORA are not privy to. This is why we must learn how to share the "bits and pieces" of information that we come across. Some of it may be very important - to someone. 1996 Mid-Ohio Research Associates, Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 22:17:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 01:01:54 -0400 Subject: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition >Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 19:19:47 -0300 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > Gary: First thought might be amnesty for anyone talking about crashed > saucers in July 1947 and about Operation Majestic 12. The USAF is on re > ord that there was no alien spacecraft that crashed then and that The > MJ-12 Documents are bogus. How can they refuse? Put them in a Catch 22 > situation. > Hastily, Stan Friedman Stan, I'll go you one further. If the USAF has gone on public record as denying the reality of the Roswell crash and the existence of MJ-12, then why would anyone even need to apply for amnesty. Any so-called witness or participant should be free to testify by default. If the USAF makes any move to prosecute or threaten anyone for talking, a lot of people will be asking why it makes any difference to them. Like you said: Catch 22. Buck
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 UFO Report Poses Credibility Risk For The CIA From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 04:48:11 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 01:09:08 -0400 Subject: UFO Report Poses Credibility Risk For The CIA Found at: http://www.chicago.tribune.com/news/current/page.htm The link is in double brackets. Is the sun finally setting on the CIA? Web-posted: Wednesday, August 6, 1997 =20 WASHINGTON -- A recently released CIA report on UFOs poses a credibility risk for the CIA.=20 ******* Like a similar report released by the Air Force last spring, the CIA's report has the effect of asking UFO fanatics: "Who are you going to believe . . . us or your own eyes?"=20 These days I am willing to bet more people believe in flying saucers than in the Central Intelligence Agency.=20 And, once you begin to see why, you are led to larger questions: Why do we still have a CIA and do we need to keep it?=20 The declassified report, "CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs," is available on the CIA's ((Internet Web page)). The Air Force made "misleading and deceptive statements to the public" about UFO sightings from the late 1950s through the 1960s to cover up test flights of the U-2 and SR-71 (Blackbird) spy planes, according to the report.=20 "While perhaps justified, this deception added fuel to the later conspiracy theories and the cover-up controversy of the 1970s," Gerald K. Haines, the report's author, writes.=20 This new report probably will add even more fuel, even though the government has much less reason to lie to us now that the Cold War is over. But that only raises another question: If the Cold War is over, why do we need the CIA?=20 The Cold War was President Harry S. Truman's justification for forming the CIA in 1947. But the war is over now. The government no longer has to lie about secret weapons that were intended to beat back the spread of world communism.=20 Yet, its little UFO report, released decades after it would make a difference in United States-Soviet relations, only highlights the volumes of documents that remain secret. By the beginning of this year, a year after President Clinton ordered a widespread declassification of government documents, the CIA had declassified only 19,600 pages of 165.9 million pages that were subject to the order, according to "Is the CIA Necessary," a review of government documents by Theodore Draper in the Aug. 14 New York Review of Books.=20 So, why do we still need a CIA? Recent CIA directors have raised that question and failed to answer it with anything more than vague generalities. Like his predecessors, CIA director George Tenet cited crime, terrorism and nuclear proliferation as possible substitutes for the Soviet threat in his confirmation hearings. But each of these problems and more already are dealt with by more than a dozen other agencies that gather intelligence, according to Tenet and his predecessor, John M. Deutch, who served in 1995 and 1996.=20 So, why pick on the CIA? For one thing, it stands out among intelligence agencies in its penchant for mischief-making, also known as "covert actions," with varying degrees of success and failure against governments our government didn't like in Cuba, Iran, Guatemala, Afghanistan, Nicaragua and elsewhere.=20 The San Jose Mercury-News partly retreated from its startling allegations last year of a CIA conspiracy to fund the Nicaraguan contras by funneling cocaine into American ghettos. But, the controversy highlighted as never before, particularly for African-Americans, something Senate reports revealed earlier: In their zeal to block communism, CIA officers allowed planeloads of cocaine to flow into American streets.=20 The CIA's survival rests on an enduring cult of secrecy, a residual national fear like that of bombing victims who don't want to emerge from their shelters after the bombing has ended.=20 As a result, secrecy remains a booming business. Some 2 million federal employees in 29 departments and agencies, plus another million people in private industry, can classify information, according to "Secrecy," a recent report by the Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy, chaired by Sen. Daniel P. Moynihan (D-N.Y.)=20 Many of these "secrets" come from "open sources" such as books, newspapers and public broadcasts. "The classification system . . . is used too often to deny the public an understanding of the policymaking process, rather than for the necessary protection of intelligence activities and other highly sensitive matters," the commission found.=20 A democratic society should be rigorously stingy about removing decision-makers from public accountability. We have met the enemy and it is the "classified" stamp.=20 Sometimes government secrets are necessary. The CIA isn't. The sun has set on its usefulness. If it cannot justify itself, it should declare victory, bring its spies in from the cold and close up shop.=20 That won't end the cult of secrecy, but it could mark a beginning of the end.=20 =20 =A9 1997 Chicago Tribune=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 07 Aug 97 07:43:43 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 12:48:52 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:14:24 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Saucer Smear Excerpt >"Says Dr. Paul Kurtz of CSICOP: "the promoters of the alien autopsy film are >claiming copyright infringement. However, if their footage is authentic as >they claim, then there can be no copyright violation because the film belongs >to the United States government and the American people. You can't copyright >government property."" Sorry, but Kurtz doesn't know from copyright. We've been over this before, but suffice it to say that if the film is real Ray can not copyright the unaltered original film if the government contests his claim or files their own copyright.. However, he can copyright "derivatives" from it including still images, which he has done. I have a photocopy of the copyright application with appropriate Copyright Office signatures. The copyright papers were filed, and were not contested by the government, so I'd say it's clear sailing for Ray on this. I bought a copy of the book when it first came out. Waste of money. I suggest saving yours even if it ever goes off of backorder. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: What price normality for mankind? From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 01:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 11:29:08 -0400 Subject: Re: What price normality for mankind? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 19:29:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 00:15:17 -0400 Subject: What price normality for Mankind? > I have asked around and the consensus among skeptics > and quite a few UFO researchers is that Corso > is lying. Have they provided proof? No, not a bit. > Has Corso provided proof? Apparently. It's apparent to you that Corso has provided proof? Could you please make it apparent to me? What's he to prove.... that he's lying? that he's not lying? that UFO researchers are lying? that UFO researcher are not lying? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:26:46 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 12:47:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:21:50 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? <snip> >Still awaiting a 'serious' investigation. Don't be so quick to >dismiss these sightings Kal, there's more to them than the >airforce will have us all believe. >John Velez This reply is not necessarily addressed to just you, John. It's just my two-cents worth in this controversy. I've reviewed and reviewed the Phoenix lights and simply cannot decide what actually happened that night and what those things were. I don't think we will ever know the truth. If I/we don't accept that, this controversy could go on for centuries with no real answers revealed. What good will come of this use of our time? Might there be better ways of seeking truth? Ever since I saw that crescent shaped object on June 7th, I have found myself struggling to understand the MEANING of this sighting. Over and over I wonder, "WHAT was that that I and the other witnesses saw? Was it physical or non-physical? Was it an object or a hologram? Was it made by humans, extraterrestrials, multi-dimensionals, or some phenomenon I have yet to imagine? Did I see it because I study UFOs or was it a chance sighting? Why MY back yard?" I have so many questions and no answers. Over and over I ask, "What is the MEANING?!! WHAT IS THE MEANING?!!!" It HAS meaning but what is it?!! There was purpose and meaning to all that happened in and over Phoenix that night. What did it mean? What did it mean to us on an individual basis? What did it mean on a community level? What did it mean on a national and worldwide level? Obviously it had more than one meaning to many people. Were the lights physical or non-physical? We don't know. Were they on one object or many objects? We don't know. Were they aircraft or multidimensional phenomena? We don't know. Were they made by humans, ETs or a combination of both or many sources? We don't know. Was it a trick by our government? Was it a trick by aliens? Was it meant to prove that UFOs exist and aliens are here or was it meant to cause endless controversy, debate and distraction? We may never know the answers to these questions. Some people become quite upset at the mere mention of flares and the POSSIBILITIES under consideration. Others quote the government or military as if to dismiss all speculation. Haven't we learned enough by now to NEVER believe anything our government, military or aliens say?!!! It is possible some of the lights were flares on black parachutes and it is equally possible it was a craft from another planet or dimension. Come on, Folks, what's so hard about accepting all explanations as possible? The general public does not know the answer and I would be twice suspicious of anyone who claims they DO! We need to focus on the RESULTS of what happened rather than what may have actually occurred. No matter what the cause of this incident, the results, the response remains the same. THAT is something we can study. THAT is something we can measure. And the research may yield clues as to the AGENDA(S) behind this very public appearance. The Phoenix incident SEEMS to have been a demonstration of some kind for some reason displayed FOR public observation. Whether a ship or ships of interplanitary or multidimensional origin, a military exercise, flares, man-made craft, holographic projection or something we cannot imagine it caused significant response or reaction in the general public. The delayed knee jerk reaction by the media also seems to be part of this demonstration-reaction. If the incident was designed to MANIPULATE public opinion, we must ask ourselves WHO is manipulating our thoughts and WHY. If it was a demonstration by ETs or multidimensionals, what did they WANT us to think? What thoughts/beliefs were they seeking to influence in our minds? If it was a military exercise of such proportions over a heavily populated city, what were THEY thinking?!!! Why would such an exercise be conducted over a city? Surprisingly, those who prefer to accept these explanations by the military seem quite comfortable with these exercises being conducted over a CITY rather than a less populated region. I don't know about you but the thought of THIS type of exercise being conducted over a heavily populated area scares the he!! out of me!!! I find the thought of an alien invasion much more palatable than the possibility our military is dropping multiple flares over our heads without warning us of any possible dangers or misconceptions! If this is the truth, we are being treated as mere props for military training and our lives as well as our rights are being endangered. If it was a joint alien-military demonstration, it may have involved everything from holographic projections to alien space craft, biological and/or chemical agents, ELFs/EHFs, and a whole range of possible experiments designed to manipulate public perceptions. SOMETHING was observed and video taped over Phoenix that night and that something has become a part of our realities. It has affected our paradigms in ways general and specific. We may learn more by asking questions of ourselves as well as our governments and our gods. WHAT that something was over Phoenix may not be as important as WHY it was there and what it MEANS to the human race. Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:25:42 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 13:06:43 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:14:24 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 >And could this be the reason that my neighborhood Super Crown Bookstore, >still does not have Kal's book? The bookstore claims the book is not even >available for order as it has been on backorder since before the publishing >date. Rebecca, I bet Kal would give you a free copy of his book. I also believe he would autograph it with "Hugs and Kisses, Love Kal" just for you. <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 08:29:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 13:25:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again -snip- >This Klass Klown act seems to be real common among the Roswell debunkers on >this group. Brookesmith, Stacey, and Stepkowski also leap immediately to >mind. These weak attempts at humor are nothing but side-show diversions from >the great intellectual void at the center of their arguments, IMHO. >David Rudiak This problem is more far reaching than just Roswell. They appear to be trying to debunk the whole of ufology and the ufologists, witnesses, evidendence to boot. I for one will no longer listen to the garbage spewed by these individuals. They have PROVEN their incompetence at serious ufological investigation, their own attitude problems, and total lack of respect for the intelligence of those they are talking to and about. Why then are they allowed so much time and space to present their views? Is it supposedly fairness that lets mindless debunkers have higher status and power than those that debate on a reasonable and factual level? There is a serious problem here. When Klass pulled his shenanigens too many times, he lost credibility and was laughed at and seemed to blend into the woodwork for awhile. Now with Pflock, Korf, Jeffrey, etc. they can say ANYTHING no matter how pathetic, and get more attention and print space than those who have done the serious research. Have we stooped to the level of the tabloids in pushing controversy first to get people riled up and worry about the truth later? They certainly do NOT represent the vast majority of ufologists out there and yet are getting more time and space to spew their muck. And even in ufological circles like this list! It's time to compile their garbage together, cram it in their faces publicly and tell them to go to H@ll! Then we can get on with the serious research and stop wasting time and space responding to their crap. I feel like the debunker slop has gone from knee deep 2 years ago to neck deep now. And it doesn't smell any better either. Joel Henry ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster Minnesota MUFON Web Page= http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: SETI From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:25:46 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 13:09:03 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI >Date: 06 Aug 97 08:15:02 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: SETI >I'd like to throw out some ideas regarding SETI and see >if others agree. Basically, I regard searching for radio >signals as a means of finding intelligent life elsewhere as >a waste of time. Here's my reasoning. >We've been using radio as a communications medium for a little >over a hundred years, and TV for around 60 years. We are already >seeing an end to the era of broadcast radio and TV as we >move to cable, directed satellite transmissions, etc. I think >the "window" during which a civilization uses radio as a >communications medium will be a couple hundred years, at most. >So, if we are searching for other civilizations, of which >there are probably billions, we will find that using radio >we are going to be looking only for those civilizations which >are roughly at the same level of development as we are within >that very narrow window. I think this number will be quite >small. >I don't think that there is any credible evidence that UFOs >use radio of any sort as a communications medium. Yet, I'm >certain that they can communicate with one another. What comes >after radio? We certainly don't know at this stage in our >development, but I'm certain that it is something we know >little or nothing about at present. If telepathy really exists, >as I think it does, future communications will probably use some >form of it. How do we scan the skies for telepathic signals???? But Bob keep in mind that there can still be at least thousands of other Earth-like planets developing civilizations just like us. Not all possible life-sustaining planets will be far advanced. I understand your point though. Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:23:13 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 14:03:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again >This Klass Klown act seems to be real common among the Roswell debunkers on >this group. Brookesmith, Stacey, and Stepkowski also leap immediately to >mind. These weak attempts at humor are nothing but side-show diversions from >the great intellectual void at the center of their arguments, IMHO. >David Rudiak Dear Dave: Can't speak for the others, but I _sometimes_ attempt humor on _some_ subjects because it's apparent that most people in this field have had their sense of same abducted and replaced with the deadly serious virus. I don't even particularly object to your point of view about Roswell. What I do object to is its inflation by those ufologists without a sense of humor who can't even agree on when it happened, where, and how many times, and even who was there when it did supposedly happen. If you want some real laughs, read Beyond Roswell and The Day After Roswell back-to-back and tell me they both make sense -- and can be integrated into some sort of whole view as to what really took place. If it makes you happy, I'll go ahead and concede that Marcel was the most honorable officer who ever served in the Army and Air Force. Now, what, pray tell, does that tell us about Jim Ragsdale, Frank Kaufmann, Philip Corso and chief Robert Morning Sky? Not a damn thing. I don't doubt that something happened near Roswell. What I find ludicrous is the sheer size and extent of the edifice that has been erected in its wake, which includes everything from Heaven's Gate to the Hale-Bopp remote-"viewed" object and much of modern Roswell itself, not to mention tons of videos and books on the subject that are literally full of unsupported claims and "investigations." How many Roswell "fragments" had turned up at the last count, for example? Let me make this perfectly clear: I do not blame any of the more exaggerated silliness that often passes for ufology today on Marcel personally. I think it's an absolute tragedy that he died when he did. Even though he was interviewed several times before his death, many questions remained unanswered, primarily because ufology didn't have the funds to mount a completely thorough investigation at the time, and those who might have had the funds, say, "60 Minutes" weren't yet as interested as they became with the approach of the 50th anniversary of Roswell. It's a major tragedy and a major pity, no pun intended. That said, I was at Roswell last month, and much of it was, to put it charitably, sideshow and circus. Some of it was straight out of a Joseph Heller novel, as when the book buyer at the International Roswell UFO Museum and Research Center refused to carry my book in the gift shop because of a single paragraph about Glenn Dennis, even though I was told a minute or two previously that "we like to present both points of view." Just not that one, I guess. Otherwise, the book, "UFOs 1947-1997: Fifty Years of Flying Saucers," co-edited with Hilary Evans, has gotten generally good reviews. Next time, if there is one, I'll be sure to debunk more so it won't happen again. Klass Klown
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 05:41:31 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:35:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:26:46 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? Dear Amy & List >Ever since I saw that crescent shaped object on June 7th, I have >found myself struggling to understand the MEANING of this >sighting. Over and over I wonder, "WHAT was that that I and the >other witnesses saw? Was it physical or non-physical? Was it >an object or a hologram? Was it made by humans, > extraterrestrials, multi-dimensionals, or some phenomenon I >have yet to imagine? Did I see it because I study UFOs or was >it a chance sighting? Why MY back yard?" >I have so many questions and no answers. Over and over I ask, > "What is the MEANING?!! WHAT IS THE MEANING?!!!" It HAS >meaning but what is it?!! >There was purpose and meaning to all that happened in and over >Phoenix that night. What did it mean? What did it mean to us >on an individual basis? What did it mean on a community level? >What did it mean on a national and worldwide level? Obviously >it had more than one meaning to many people. Perhaps this sighting and the whole ufo phenomena is a bit like asking the question - 'What is the meaning of life?' After 46 years I still haven't figured that one out and it is the same with this sighting because the answers to questions are only more questions. If the Phoenix event involved ETs who wanted to show their power, or contempt for our puny defence systems why do it at night? If it was the government trying to make some sort of statement, why do it at night? If it was the government why make a statement like this at all? Perhaps the only tangible result of the sightings so far is the effect it has had on the ufo community. Once again we can't miss the opportunity to shout and abuse one another and while we're doing that we aren't progressing too far towards getting answers. Even if this was the reasoning behind the event (which I don't think it was) why such overkill? Stuart
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:36:46 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 > Date: 07 Aug 97 07:43:43 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 Bob, I don't want to argue copryright. I trust that CSICOPian lawyers have their own interpretation of things. I haven's seen the book but from what little I know about copyright, fair use would come into play here. Kal's got a lot of troubles with legalities now that Art Bell has said on the air that he is going to sue him for slander. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Klass Article In Current Issue Of Astronomy From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:14:07 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:43:58 -0400 Subject: Klass Article In Current Issue Of Astronomy Received this from "alt.alien.visitors" August 7 at 17.43 local Danish time (GMT + 2 hours): 7. August 1997 17.27.20 alt.alien.visitors Item From: cluster_user@yale.edu,usenet Subject: Phil Klass- article in Astronomy To: alt.alien.visitors The issue of Astronomy on the newstands right now is devoted in some measure to UFO debunkery, complete with a big article (advertised on the cover) by Klass called "A Field Guide to UFOs" or some such nonsense. I marvel at his style; the man can do so much with no substance. Pay particular attention to the photos he presents, and ask yourself: Is Klass presenting the best cases for and against UFOs, or merely the best cases that serve and illustrate his urge to debunk? Amazingly subtle disinformation job, for someone with so blatant an urge. And great news about the military and the CIA, as I'm sure everyone knows now (last nights news); they're claiming people were/are seeing UFOs, and that they were/are advanced military craft. Why is the millitary admitting this, when it is obvious that the U2 and the Blackbird have a *tough time* hovering and performing other extreme aerobatic feats. Their claim doesn't do them any more good than Venus has done all along, and leaves them open for a lot of flak. The fact that they are admitting to a policy of deceit (Blue Book, after all, now can be seen in a new light, given this disclosure), the whole drama is only fueled that much more, that much more important to get to the bottom of. Check out Klass' article, then write to Astronomy for lowering their standards so appallingly.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 UFO sighting, NYC From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:41:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:41:19 -0400 Subject: UFO sighting, NYC X-Sender: jvif@spacelab.net (Unverified) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:33:19 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: UFO sighting, NYC Hi Errol, Hi All, It's getting harder and harder for me to post reports of daylight UFO activity over NY. I am not 'Ed Walters' nor do I 'wanna be!' To tell you the absolute truth I'm always a little leary of folks who claim excessively frequent contact with aliens or UFO's. (And that's coming from an abductee!) Unless I can get, "a piece of one" I will not be (publicly) posting sighting reports in the future. I will notify CUFOS and the National Reporting Center anonymously. I don't want, nor do I need, the kind of attention that follows in the wake of frequent UFO sightings reported by a single individual. It really is a shame that it's like that. Anywho, here it is. As per usual, anyone who collects such reports for a database is welcome to add the following. =========================================================================== Saturday, July 26, 1997 7:05 pm. Weather clear, cool (mid seventies) a few scattered clouds, breezy. Sun is low in western sky, excellent visibility. My wife and I were enjoying our dinner 'al fresco' in the yard behind my house when I spotted a dark oval approaching at fairly low altitude (3,500 to 5000 ft. high) from the northeast. It was moving slowly and wobbling from side to side. I ran into the house and grabbed my videocam and managed to get 30 seconds of footage as it flew past overhead. When viewed from behind the object had a 'bell' or 'acorn' shape. At certain times during the sighting it appeared flat and more like a 'classic disc'. The surface was very highly polished (mirror like) and the circular bottom was a deep (almost black) grey. The object did not have wings, made absolutely no sound, and flew in an erratic pattern. Another feature was that the object appears to vanish and reappear in a 'winking' fashion. At times it appeared starlike, at other times it looked almost as if two objects were riding on top of each other in an extremely tight flight pattern. The object simply vanished at one point and did not re-appear! I have posted a single frame capture and an enhanced version of the same frame for your private study. Errol has a copy of the video, I am in the process of duping copies and distributing them to others. (Tom King, one is on the way!) I am submitting one to Jeff Saino, MUFON staff photoanalyst. Errol is going to try to get someone local (Toronto) to give em a look see as well. As always, any analysis results I recieve will be posted here. Again, I'd love to be able to keep you guys informed about (any) sightings I may have in the future, but I DO NOT want to deal with the heat and the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CAREFULLY From: curator <logger@california.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:58:57 -0400 Subject: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CAREFULLY tO THE iNSIDERS UFOS LIST: and all other lists: Warning to implantees: "Implantees" who are considering a removal, should contact ONLY highly respected and reputable researchers who can guarantee that the analysis done on the implant is by responsive and responsible labs that are not gov't agencies in disguise who will "lose" the implant. I.e., Dr. Mack, Budd Hopkins, Dr. Jacobs, and others. The Leir/Sims removal has not been reported on as to content, as per the implantee, Pat Parinello, in two years! Aug l995-Aug l997. 2) If you are "blessed" as to having two implants, SAVE ONE!!!!! Give it to a lawyer you trust. 3) If your researcher wants you to sign lots of releases and contracts, as I saw happening at Dr. Leir's office, (I was there!!) be sure YOU GET A PIECE OF THE ACTION!!! -Percentage of lecture fees, photos, videos, and tv broadcast fees!!! The implant is YOUR property! See a lawyer before you sign anything! The Leir/Sims implantees got zero, zip, nada, nothing. No fees, not a dime from lectures and videos and tv,etc. Erik Beckjord, listmaster.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Skywatch: soundless C 131s From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:19:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 18:00:33 -0400 Subject: Skywatch: soundless C 131s ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: ncbuckallew@cp-tel.net (Norm Buckallew) To: "skywatch" <skywatch@wic.net> Subject: soundless C 131's Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 00:10:59 -0500 To Sky Watch <skywatch@wic.net From ncbuckallew@cp-tel.net Date Aug 3 1997 12:00 A.M. Subject soundless C 131's Dear Col.... A friend that lives in northern Nevada reported to me this evening that a couple of days ago he and several others watch at least (20) military C 131 cargo planes flying very low over their heads, apparently heading for the Nevada test range. He stated they were so low the fellows standing in the open cargo doors were waving to them as they went over, the strange thing was there was no engine noise what so ever. They appeared to been about 200 feet up and were flying at no more than fifty miles an hour, all heading into the small pass that goes toward the test site. He also stated another air plane bearing the presidental seal on the side was also seen in the same vacinity. Just a note that might be interesting. Thanks C.B. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International and this list service are not responsible for authenticity of posts. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Skywatch: Re: silent engines From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:28:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 18:08:25 -0400 Subject: Skywatch: Re: silent engines ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 22:20:22 +1000 To: skywatch@wic.net From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> Subject: Re: Skywatch: silent engines >Dear Col.... >If I might suggest the person that observed these craft is not aware of >any new technology on silent air craft engines, as is talked about on >the pages of Sky Watch. He is also not aware of any information much >on UFO's, matter of fact that never entered his mind, he was absolutely >amazed he could not hear their motors. He related: " If I had not been >outside I would never known they were there at all." As to their >speed, that was an estimate, he is no expert on aircraft and their >capabilities, this was just an honest observation he happened to >mention during our conversation as these air craft were so unusual. >I have no idea what other information he could give to satisify people >understanding more about what is apparently going on with these silent >engine planes. >Since it appears obvious they can create silent engines on these >planes, how do we know what other kind of technologies they can use to >also allow them to fly at slower speed"s? >Sincerely C.B. Dear C. B & List Well I have to say that after some limited service with the airforce I have no knowledge of silent engines either. Nor have I been able to find any reference in such books as Jane's World Aircraft Recognition Handbook of any plane designated C131. Many may consider this aircraft designation a very minor point but when we are dealing with ufos we must make sure that our reports are not full of inaccuracies otherwise they will appear to be nothing more than the ramblings of crackpots. While it may appear as though I am trying to debunk this sighting nothing is further from the truth. I am merely trying to apply a few simple investigative techniques and a bit of common sense when I wrote the first posting. What I would like to know is, where is the proof that there really are silent engines fitted to what I take was mean't to be C130 Hercules. To even be able to prove this report on something as simple as the balance of probabilities we need to know the answer to questions such as this and it is just not sufficient to say "well the witness saw them but couldn't hear them." Something as revolutionary as a silent running turbo prop would have certainly attracted some patents and would have made it into technical journals so folks if these engines really do exist where is the paperwork - lets have some patent numbers. Without this sort of proof reports like this that link sightings such as this to the USAF (or any other airforce) should only be accepted with a huge amount of reservation. Stuart Note: The kits for silent running engines are made by Teledyne and General Electric. You will find no patents on these because they are still rated Top Secret. I witnessed the demonstration of these at Beale AF Base in California in 1985. The deadening qualities were amazing. You could only hear a swishing sound at 300 feet. ....Col. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International and this list service are not responsible for authenticity of posts. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 17:08:06 cst Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 19:37:45 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 >Date: 07 Aug 97 07:43:43 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 >>From: XianneKei@aol.com >>Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:14:24 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Saucer Smear Excerpt >>"Says Dr. Paul Kurtz of CSICOP: "the promoters of the alien >>autopsy film are >>claiming copyright infringement. However, >>if their footage is authentic as >>they claim, then there can >>be no copyright violation because the film belongs to the >>United States government and the American people. You can't >>copyright government property."" >Sorry, but Kurtz doesn't know from copyright. We've been over this >before, but suffice it to say that if the film is real Ray can not >copyright the unaltered original film if the government contests his >claim or files their own copyright.. However, he can copyright >"derivatives" from it including still images, which he has done. >I have a photocopy of the copyright application with appropriate >Copyright Office signatures. The copyright papers were filed, and >were not contested by the government, so I'd say it's clear sailing >for Ray on this. >I bought a copy of the book when it first came out. Waste of money. >I suggest saving yours even if it ever goes off of backorder. >Bob Bob Shell says that he is far too busy to answer all of our nagging (yet fundamental) questions regarding his involvement in the Alien Autopsy "film" controversy. However, he seems to have plenty of time to chime-in with his defense of Ray Santilli's copyright claims. As an impartial, independent "photo expert", why the hell should he care one way or another about the validity of Santilli's copyright claims? From his reaction, one could only assume that Shell is either a close personal friend of Ray Santilli (which he's never claimed) or else he has a personal financial stake in this venture. In either case, Shell's description of his involvement in the AA scam as being limited to being an objective, impartial "photo expert" are absurd. Since he adamantly refuses to address any of the specific questions regarding the AA "film, we must conclude that Shell is simply promoting the AA "film" for crass commercial considerations. I pose this question to the esteemed readers and participants of UFO UpDates: In light of Mr. Shell's constant evasions and distortions concerning the details of the origins, and his alleged analysis of, the AA "film," and his eager defense of Santilli's questionable copyright claims, does anyone here consider him to be anything other than a shameless PR flack for Santilli & Co.? Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:37:27 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 19:40:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 08:29:17 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: >>This Klass Klown act seems to be real common among the Roswell debunkers on >>this group. Brookesmith, Stacey, and Stepkowski also leap immediately to >>mind. These weak attempts at humor are nothing but side-show diversions from >>the great intellectual void at the center of their arguments, IMHO. >>David Rudiak >This problem is more far reaching than just Roswell. They appear to >be trying to debunk the whole of ufology and the ufologists, witnesses, >evidendence to boot. I for one will no longer listen to the garbage >spewed by these individuals. They have PROVEN their incompetence at >serious ufological investigation, their own attitude problems, and >total lack of respect for the intelligence of those they are talking >to and about. Why then are they allowed so much time and space to present >their views? Is it supposedly fairness that lets mindless debunkers >have higher status and power than those that debate on a reasonable >and factual level? There is a serious problem here. When Klass pulled >his shenanigens too many times, he lost credibility and was laughed at >and seemed to blend into the woodwork for awhile. Now with Pflock, >Korf, Jeffrey, etc. they can say ANYTHING no matter how pathetic, and >get more attention and print space than those who have done the >serious research. Have we stooped to the level of the tabloids in >pushing controversy first to get people riled up and worry about >the truth later? They certainly do NOT represent the vast majority >of ufologists out there and yet are getting more time and space to >spew their muck. And even in ufological circles like this list! >It's time to compile their garbage together, cram it in their faces >publicly and tell them to go to H@ll! Then we can get on with the >serious research and stop wasting time and space responding to their >crap. I feel like the debunker slop has gone from knee deep 2 years >ago to neck deep now. And it doesn't smell any better either. >Joel Henry Dear Joel: Since you include my name in your quote from Rudiak, I hope you won't mind if I respond. To wit, are we living on the same planet? Have you been to a bookstore, a news stand, theatre, or merely sat in front of a TV tube for a couple of hours lately? There has never been more pro-UFO material available in the history of the phenomenon, let alone through such mainstream media. There are more UFO books by major publishers, more UFO-related movies, more UFO-related TV programs, and more newspaper and magazine articles devoted to the UFO subject than ever before in history, repeat, IN ALL OF HISTORY! I think Kevin Randle is publishing four books this year alone. As far as I know, whatever you personally think of them, Jeffrey has published none, ditto Pflock. Korff has published one. There have been new UFO books by Whitley Strieber, Budd Hopkins, Jim Marrs, Philip Corso, Michael Hessemann & Philip Mantle, Jenny Randles, Larry Warren, Beth Collings & Anna Jamerson, Ed Walters & Bruce Maccabee, Charles Emmons, Nick Pope, John Price, Joe Lewels, Willy Smith, Jerome Clark and -- dare I say so? -- myself & Hilary Evans. (Hmm, haven't read the latter, have you?) The list of all UFO books published within the last year is probably easily twice that long. Now name, say, FIVE books off the top of your head you deem to have been written by debunkers. In addition, there are more UFO web sites, journals, newsletters, bulletins and conferences than ever before. I should add that there are more UFO T-shirts and trinkets than ever before, too. There are more people extracting implants, and more people delivering therapy; there are more alien cartoons, images and advertizements than there have ever been. By way of local examples, the "San Antonio Express-News" ran a series of articles about Roswell and UFOs prior to and during the 50th anniversary week. "Texas Monthly," about as straightlaced as any magazine in the country, ran articles about both Strieber and Roswell. The current issue of "Texas Highways" has a highly complimentary, 6-page article with color pictures about MUFON. Neither publication would have previously touched the subject with a 20-foot pecan pole. In short, Joel, lighten up and smell the roses. UFOs HAVE CARRIED THE DAY WITH THE PUBLIC. The debunkers, whoever you think they are, are _not_ getting more space and attention than the proponents. They are lagging far behind and playing catch-up...in case you hadn't noticed. And apparently you hadn't. In the case of the Journal, for example, I've probably published at least 20 articles over the years, if not more, that were completely pro-Roswell. And in a few instances, information in some of those articles was later retracted by the original authors themselves, once they learned that it was probably fraudulent (viz., Ragsdale and Anderson). But let me publish _one_ article by Kent Jeffrey critical of the case, and I'm branded a "debunker" and told to go to hell. Call me naive, but I thought, as an editor, that I could publish different points of view and that the MUFON readership could read them and make up their own mind about any information contained therein -- _without_ accusing the editor of being this or that, other than an editor. Guess I was wrong. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:46:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 19:42:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments, and the most horrible grin you can think of, full of green suede teeth (not all of them his own). First (hard not to rise to this one): >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again >This Klass Klown act seems to be real common among the Roswell >debunkers on this group. Brookesmith, Stacey, and Stepkowski also >leap immediately to mind. These weak attempts at humor are nothing >but side-show diversions from the great intellectual void at the >center of their arguments, IMHO. Nah, Dave, you got it wrong (again). When it comes to Roswell, and in particular your posts on same, I get so all chuckled up from the amusement they afford me, I just can't stop the wisecracks from bubbling up and, being naturally generous, just love to spread 'em around among you good folks. And second: >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 08:29:17 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: [sundry snips] >There is a serious problem here. >Now with Pflock, Korf, Jeffrey, etc. they can say ANYTHING no matter >how pathetic, and get more attention and print space than those who >have done the serious research. >Then we can get on with the serious research Seriously? "Serious research" more and more sounds like a code word for something. In my intellectual void, I cannot imagine what. >They certainly do NOT represent the vast majority >of ufologists out there and yet are getting more time and space to >spew their muck. And even in ufological circles like this list! It is of course very wicked of people to disagree with "serious researchers" and still worse to make jokes. (Sure signs of heresy, membership of the Cover-Up Organization, smelliness, &c.) But not quite as wicked as wishing to suppress dissent and free discussion, and not as stupid as thinking that criticism is not vital to greater understanding. Of anything. But it takes all sorts. Needless to say the names of these two parties have been forwarded to Vince Johnson for inscription in the Big Black Book of the New World Order. When me'n'Vince is out there plottin' on the submarine, under the North Pole an' all, we call it the Bumper Fun Book of Cover-Up Joaks, an' we laugh like goddam drunken hyenas. Yours &c Persiflage D. Mountebank Roswell Fragment
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:46:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:17:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments, and the most horrible grin you can think of, full of green suede teeth (not all of them his own). First (hard not to rise to this one): >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again >This Klass Klown act seems to be real common among the Roswell >debunkers on this group. Brookesmith, Stacey, and Stepkowski also >leap immediately to mind. These weak attempts at humor are nothing >but side-show diversions from the great intellectual void at the >center of their arguments, IMHO. Nah, Dave, you got it wrong (again). When it comes to Roswell, and in particular your posts on same, I get so all chuckled up from the amusement they afford me, I just can't stop the wisecracks from bubbling up and, being naturally generous, just love to spread 'em around among you good folks. And second: >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 08:29:17 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: [sundry snips] >There is a serious problem here. >Now with Pflock, Korf, Jeffrey, etc. they can say ANYTHING no matter >how pathetic, and get more attention and print space than those who >have done the serious research. >Then we can get on with the serious research Seriously? "Serious research" more and more sounds like a code word for something. In my intellectual void, I cannot imagine what. >They certainly do NOT represent the vast majority >of ufologists out there and yet are getting more time and space to >spew their muck. And even in ufological circles like this list! It is of course very wicked of people to disagree with "serious researchers" and still worse to make jokes. (Sure signs of heresy, membership of the Cover-Up Organization, smelliness, &c.) But not quite as wicked as wishing to suppress dissent and free discussion, and not as stupid as thinking that criticism is not vital to greater understanding. Of anything. But it takes all sorts. Needless to say the names of these two parties have been forwarded to Vince Johnson for inscription in the Big Black Book of the New World Order. When me'n'Vince is out there plottin' on the submarine, under the North Pole an' all, we call it the Bumper Fun Book of Cover-Up Joaks, an' we laugh like goddam drunken hyenas. Yours &c Persiflage D. Mountebank Roswell Fragment
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again From: Ktperehwon@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:36:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again In a message dated 08/07/97 02:36:50, you wrote: <<This Klass Klown act seems to be real common among the Roswell debunkers on this group. >> DEAR, CHARMING MR. R, & GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- To quote Oscar Wilde, "Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow." I imagine that's a tad too deep for you, Mr. Rudiak, but hope springs eternal in the klowish breast. -- KARL KLASS KLOWN
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:05:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:39:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 05:41:31 +1000 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:26:46 -0500 (CDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Dear Amy & List >>Ever since I saw that crescent shaped object on June 7th, I have >>found myself struggling to understand the MEANING of this >>sighting. Over and over I wonder, "WHAT was that that I and the >>other witnesses saw? Was it physical or non-physical? Was it >>an object or a hologram? Was it made by humans, >> extraterrestrials, multi-dimensionals, or some phenomenon I >>have yet to imagine? Did I see it because I study UFOs or was >>it a chance sighting? Why MY back yard?" >>I have so many questions and no answers. Over and over I ask, >> "What is the MEANING?!! WHAT IS THE MEANING?!!!" It HAS >>meaning but what is it?!! >>There was purpose and meaning to all that happened in and over >>Phoenix that night. What did it mean? What did it mean to us >>on an individual basis? What did it mean on a community level? >>What did it mean on a national and worldwide level? Obviously >>it had more than one meaning to many people. >Perhaps this sighting and the whole ufo phenomena is a bit like >asking the question - 'What is the meaning of life?' After 46 years I >still haven't figured that one out and it is the same with this sighting >because the answers to questions are only more questions. >If the Phoenix event involved ETs who wanted to show their power, or >contempt for our puny defence systems why do it at night? Hi All, I've been wondering about the dramatic increase in sighting reports worldwide. The key word here is 'increasing'. Why does it have to be a show of strength or contempt for our puny defenses? What if we are gradually being conditioned by an intelligence so far in advance of our own that they are simply attempting to reduce the shock of contact on the worlds population? This is all pure speculation of course, but why attach base 'human' motives to something/someone who may not share our rather limited views of life and it's possibilities. It may not be 'contempt' or 'muscle flexing' at all, but instead an act of mercy, responsibility, and the same kind of protective concern we show our own young ones. As human adults we instinctively/automatically will attempt protect the innocent ones among us from unecessary shock or strife. I'm going to stop because I'm starting to sound too "new agey" for my own good. I really just wanted to make the point that all may not always be what (we) think it is. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:43:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:26:46 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:21:50 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? ><snip> >>Still awaiting a 'serious' investigation. Don't be so quick to >>dismiss these sightings Kal, there's more to them than the >>airforce will have us all believe. >>John Velez >This reply is not necessarily addressed to just you, John. It's >just my two-cents worth in this controversy. >I've reviewed and reviewed the Phoenix lights and simply cannot >decide what actually happened that night and what those things >were. I don't think we will ever know the truth. If I/we don't >accept that, this controversy could go on for centuries with no >real answers revealed. What good will come of this use of our >time? Might there be better ways of seeking truth? >Ever since I saw that crescent shaped object on June 7th, I have >found myself struggling to understand the MEANING of this >sighting. Over and over I wonder, "WHAT was that that I and the >other witnesses saw? Was it physical or non-physical? Was it >an object or a hologram? Was it made by humans, > extraterrestrials, multi-dimensionals, or some phenomenon I >have yet to imagine? Did I see it because I study UFOs or was >it a chance sighting? Why MY back yard?" >I have so many questions and no answers. Over and over I ask, > "What is the MEANING?!! WHAT IS THE MEANING?!!!" It HAS >meaning but what is it?!! >There was purpose and meaning to all that happened in and over >Phoenix that night. What did it mean? What did it mean to us >on an individual basis? What did it mean on a community level? >What did it mean on a national and worldwide level? Obviously >it had more than one meaning to many people. >Were the lights physical or non-physical? We don't know. Were >they on one object or many objects? We don't know. Were they >aircraft or multidimensional phenomena? We don't know. Were >they made by humans, ETs or a combination of both or many >sources? We don't know. Was it a trick by our government? Was >it a trick by aliens? Was it meant to prove that UFOs exist and >aliens are here or was it meant to cause endless controversy, > debate and distraction? We may never know the answers to these >questions. Why don't you quit analyzing the thing you saw and just accept the fact that you saw something. You are going to drive yourself crazy if you continue to analyze it. IF you are meant to know "why" you will find out. How many people do you think just wish they could have seen what you saw? Do you think by analyzing if continuously, that you will make it go away? Why does there have to be a reason or purpose for your having seen it? Is there such a thing to you as just being in the right place at the right (wrong??) time? To heck with the "endless controversy," theory. Just be content to know that you can add yourself to the "ever growing" list of "sightee's." <g> I had ONE sighting and that was back in 1967. I didn't ask why? I wondered if I would ever have another one. Well, so far, I haven't. Does it have to mean something everytime you see a rainbow after a rainstorm? Or a Lightning bolt during a thunderstorm? No, it doesn't. It is just a by-product of the event itself. Do you lay awake at night trying to figure out why lighning strikes? I doubt it. If it is possible that UFOs are some, yet to be understood, natural phenomena, then time will provide the answers. Most finds are "accidental." They occurr while researching something else. If this is a natural phenomena, then it will eventually be discovered, probably by accident. I don't automatically suscribe to the idea that UFOs are "alien" spacecraft. I don't know what they are. I KNOW there are a lot of PARANOID people who think that UFOs and the ???? within them are either Angels or demons. They see them as Saviours or our People and Planet. While others see them as Destroyers of the human race and scavengers of the planet. Each "abductee" has a different prespective. One says they are not a threat to humanity, but wish to help us save our world and advance our species. Others are terrified and claim they have been raped and abused by Reptilians, Tall Greys, etc. How can there be such a diversity of ALIEN Intervention? If one is interested in Helping Save Humanity and the Earth, why would they sit by and and watch other races rape and pillage us? Something just doesn't add up here. You can't have it both ways. If they are advanced enought to travel through space/Time/dimension, they are smart enought to know that there are others here with intentions opposite of their own. Why would they allow such to continue? I am moving more and more toward the idea that "most" of the Abduction phenomena is nothing more than pure hyseria and paranoia! Escapists! Tired of the day to day oppression by governments, businesses, employers, spouces, children, etc., etc., etc. So, they allow their desire for someone or something to blame it on, to manufacture "aliens!" By the same token, those of a basic religious faith, manufacture "Angels" or "good aliens," to help them cope with these daily oppressive life events. To close this tirade <G> I again say, don't spend so much time and energy analyzing your sighting to death. Also, don't let these armchair investigators discourage you from doing your research. They don't have the answers. They just like to impress others with the idea that they do. It is strictly an EGO thing. IF they had the answers, they wouldn't be here arguing every day. They would be on the TV and Lecture Tour, as well as in the world newspapers providing proof positive of what they know. Instead, they have nothing but their belligerent opinion and constantly express it to belittle those with whom they disagree. There are no "experts" in UFOLOGY. How can there be EXPERTS in a field which "Science/Military/Political" establishments refuse to acknowledge? If it is ever acknowledged by those establishments, then we can start to accquire data and develop "experts," in "A new field of Science." Until then, each person, regardless of whom they are, or what they profess to Know, is just as equal as anyone else. To date, whether we like or not; apprecite it or not; agree or not; UFOLOGY IS "SCIENCE FICTION." Circumstantial Evidence is not EVIDENCE! REgards, Mike C.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 20:28:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:54:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 08:29:17 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon > >From: DRudiak@aol.com > >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:24:03 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again > -snip- >>This Klass Klown act seems to be real common among the Roswell >>debunkers on this group. Brookesmith, Stacey, and Stepkowski >>also leap immediately to mind. These weak attempts at humor >>are nothing but side-show diversions from the great >>intellectual void at the center of their arguments, IMHO. >>David Rudiak > This problem is more far reaching than just Roswell. They > appear to be trying to debunk the whole of ufology and the > ufologists, witnesses, evidendence to boot. I for one will > no longer listen to the garbage spewed by these individuals. > They have PROVEN their incompetence at serious ufological > investigation, their own attitude problems, and total lack > of respect for the intelligence of those they are talking > to and about. Why then are they allowed so much time and > space to present their views? Is it supposedly fairness that > lets mindless debunkers have higher status and power than > those that debate on a reasonable and factual level? There > is a serious problem here. When Klass pulled his shenanigens > too many times, he lost credibility and was laughed at and > seemed to blend into the woodwork for awhile. Now with Pflock, > Korf, Jeffrey, etc. they can say ANYTHING no matter how pathetic, > and get more attention and print space than those who have done > the serious research. Have we stooped to the level of the tabloids > in pushing controversy first to get people riled up and worry about > the truth later? They certainly do NOT represent the vast majority > of ufologists out there and yet are getting more time and space to > spew their muck. And even in ufological circles like this list! > It's time to compile their garbage together, cram it in their faces > publicly and tell them to go to H@ll! Then we can get on with the > serious research and stop wasting time and space responding to their > crap. I feel like the debunker slop has gone from knee deep 2 years > ago to neck deep now. And it doesn't smell any better either. > Joel Henry > ***************************************************** > Minnesota MUFON Webmaster > Minnesota MUFON Web Page= > http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html Thank you gentlemen for deepening this conversation. I have been concerned about this problem since joining the UFO Updates list. This is how I see it: Most people are engaging in a discussion of UFO's. Modestly brief declarative articles are posted of an: I saw this, I read this or I think this nature. Other fair people enter the discussion with some additional personal experiences or thoughts or counterpoints also in modestly brief articles. The conversation may progress through a couple of more generations and by this we learn a little bit more from each other. But then, (Oh but then,) there appears another peculiar type of contribution to the list. Certain people will submit very lengthy, detailed articles "exposing" a serious flaw in some supportive evidence. Several appearingly well studied individuals will refute the "exposed flaws" in lengthy and I am sure time consuming replies. A new member of the list will probably see this as a healthy and meaningful exchange and a measure of the value of the list. But then, something strange appears to happen. During the progressing exchange of lengthy and time consuming articles little acknowledgment or movement in the positions of the parties appears to take place, especially on the part of the "exposing" contributor. The articles seem to veer off into personal concerns. The subject fades away. Ah, but then, something unnerving appears to happen. The person submitting the original "exposed flaw" submits it again essentially unchanged from our first exposure to it. Lengthy articles again generating lengthy replies again consuming much time of the opposing parties. Let us wonder about what is really going on here. The "exposure" authors never seem to acknowledge the time consuming efforts of the other researchers. The other researchers, apparently always wanting to prevent a misperception from going unanswered, seem suckered into reiterating stale points. This surely must rob them of time they could use digging out new information. Wait, have I stumbled on something here? Now wait, I do not only imply this is being done by those accused of debunkery. I see this being done also by some supporters of this UFO phenomenon against others. Forgive me Joel, but I see this in the way that some other MUFON members present themselves. So, how can I make some contribution out of this view of some postings? What if we stopped replying to these rehashed tirades with the prolonged point by point rebuttals? Hold on, I don't really mean allowing articles of questionable truth to go unanswered. Possibly, if the article is a tiring rehash of a worn position, we could reply to it, well snipped, with a remark lamenting the need to repeat the rebuttal of this lame dog and give a pointer in the archives to previous well written replies. This, of course, is only a suggestion. Knowing that I am already crazy, I will bliss out in the delusion that I could possible contribute to a cleaner more informative environment in this forum. Thanks... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 'The Day Before Roswell' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:36:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 01:04:37 -0400 Subject: 'The Day Before Roswell' Increasingly over recent years, the foundation of the Roswell story has perhaps been buried beneath the various purported truths which have been attached to it. Is there in fact significant evidence that an alien craft crashed in the New Mexico desert, or, is the explanation a Project Mogul balloon train, as evidenced in the US Air Force's July 1994 report, which affirmed the original findings of researcher Robert Todd. The answer might still be found if we strip away the myths and the deceit, for the story which gave birth to an epic tale, is a simple one. The source of the excitement was some anomalous debris which rancher Mac Brazel found on the Foster ranch, south-east of Corona, New Mexico. The exact date of the discovery is uncertain, however, it was sometime between the middle of June and early July, 1947. Initially, it seems that Brazel didn't consider the debris to be of much consequence. According to his son, Bill Brazel, "At first he didn't recognise the importance of it and it was only after a day or so of thinking on it that he decided he had better go back and take a closer look". [1] It was the following evening whilst in Corona, as Bill Brazel recalls, when "during a discussion with my uncle, Hollis Wilson and someone that he knew from Alamogordo, that he first heard about the flying saucer reports that were sweeping this area at that time". [2] As they thought Mac Brazel may have found one of those "flying saucers", he was encouraged to tell the authorities. The following day, Brazel travelled to Roswell with an unknown quantity of the debris. "I believe his original intention was to go to Roswell and buy a new Jeep pick-up truck, he certainly wouldn't have made the trip just on account of the stuff he had found", claimed Bill Brazel. [3] "Some of the news reports have it that he went to Roswell to sell wool". "I know he didn't go there to sell wool, it was about trading his pickup that he went". In the story carried by the Roswell Daily Record on 9 July, 1947, it's reported that Brazel described the debris he found as "tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks" and confirmed "at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil". Furthermore, "Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction. No string or wire were to be found, but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used". Brazel's descriptions correspond with the recollection of Bessie Brazel Schreiber, Brazel's daughter, who claims she was shown by her father, "sticks, like kite sticks, attached to some of the pieces [of foil-like material] with a whitish tape" and "tape [which] was about two or three inches wide and had flower-like designs on it". [4] "There was what appeared to be pieces of heavily waxed paper and a sort of aluminium-like foil", she added. [5] Loretta Proctor, Brazel's neighbour, confirmed that Mac, "said there was more stuff there, like a tape that had some sort of figures on it". [6] "There was also something he described as tape which had printing on it. The colour of the printing was a kind of purple", she recalled. [7] We seem to have consistent evidence, at the outset, that the debris was of flimsy construction and consisted of sticks, paper, foil and tape with purple printing on it. As Bessie Schreiber noted, "the debris looked like pieces of a large balloon which had burst". [8] Referring to the "pieces of heavily waxed paper and a sort of aluminium-like foil", Bessie Schreiber also remembered that "some of these pieces had something like numbers and lettering on them". [9] "It looked like numbers mostly, at least I assumed them to be numbers. They were written out like you would write numbers in columns to do an addition problem. But they didn't look like the numbers we use at all. What gave me the idea they were numbers, I guess, was the way they were all ranged out in columns". [10] Karl Pflock has been one of the foremost researchers of the "Roswell" case and I recently asked for his observations on a likely explanation for this writing. Karl was able to offer more than an opinion, he replied that Professor Charles Moore, who was assigned to the Mogul project, had confirmed it was common practice to use the balloon materials as a "notepad" for calculations. It's not overlooked that Bessie Schreiber comments, "they didn't look like the numbers we use at all" and we can only speculate why she may have thought so. However, she was young at the time and perhaps these were equations, shorthand, illegible writing, or simply writing which had been subjected to the elements and became smudged. Another witness, Walt Whitmore Jnr, claimed to have seen the debris Brazel brought into town. Seemingly adding weight to Moore's explanation, he confirmed, "Some of this material had a sort of writing on it which looked like numbers which had been either added or multiplied". [11] July 7th 1947. The day before Roswell was to become a legend. The Los Angeles Evening Herald and Express carried the front page banner headline: "Is the World Getting Woozier Or Are People Really Seeing Things?" Accompanying the headlines were several news articles on "flying discs" and "flying saucers". The front page photograph featured Father Joseph Brasky, from Grafton, Wisconsin, who described how a "strange disc" dropped out of the sky and hit the lightning rod on top of his church. The photograph showed Father Brasky holding the miniature "flying disc", which subsequently turned out to be a circular saw. Another leading front page article reports how Los Angeles pilot Vernon Baird knocked down a "flying Yo Yo", the fifteen feet diameter "clam-shaped airplane" coming apart in his P-38's prop wash. Baird apparently describes the aerial encounter first hand. The story was carried in several newspapers, but there was no such incident. "Three or four of us were sitting around the hanger gassing, and we just made it up. Somebody must have heard it and spread the word", Baird later explained. "I'm flabbergasted that anyone believed it". Following Kenneth Arnold's June 24th report of nine unidentified objects in formation, the American media and public were captivated by the "flying disc" stories. A genuine mystery that enthraled and entertained a nation. Nobody knew what they were, where they came from, or what they really looked like and few are likely to have appreciated that "saucer" shaped objects were not in fact what Kenneth Arnold claimed to have witnessed, Arnold merely noting that the objects "flew like a saucer would if you skipped it across the water". The media was awash with all manner of "flying saucer", ergo "flying disc", stories and it was against this background that Major Jesse A. Marcel was convinced that Mac Brazel had found one. Marcel, the Roswell Army Air Field intelligence officer, recalled, "We heard about it on 7 July when we got a call from the county sheriff's office at Roswell." [12] It sounded important as the sheriff reportedly told him Brazel believed "something had exploded" over the ranch and there was "a lot of debris scattered around". [13] Discussing the matter with his commanding officer, Colonel Blanchard, Marcel states they determined that "a downed aircraft of some unusual sort might be involved". [14] Despite having travelled to the debris field, it proved to be impossible for Major Marcel to be sure what the debris was, or where it had originated. There was no indication of the object's original size or shape, no recognisable structures such as walls or floors, no furniture, no evidence of a propulsion system or electronics, no identification markings and no dead bodies or injured crew members. Nonetheless, he was apparently satisfied that the fragile material must be from one of the "flying discs" and of the opinion this equated with a craft from another world. Consequently, it might have been presumed that Marcel would rush his debris collection back to headquarters for analysis and this would expedite any necessary countermeasures to be effected. Who knew what these wooden, paper, foil and rubber flying discs were capable of, or what strange or hostile creatures might be responsible for them. Instead, he took it home to show his family. In 1994, I saw the transcript of a little known interview with Major Marcel's son, Dr Jesse Marcel. I thought it was particularly insightful and obtained permission to publish the dialogue. Reflecting on events from June 1947, Dr Marcel elucidates: "In 1947, that's when the term flying saucer first became popular. So, they brought the debris in, and, as our house happened to be between where they were coming from and the airbase, so my dad swung by the house to show my mother and myself what this looked like, and he said 'this is a flying saucer, at least portions of it'". "This was about one or two o'clock in the morning". "I had never heard of a flying saucer before, I didn't know what it was, but he said this is a flying saucer and well, what is that?, and he said something that came from other places other than the earth here. No, it wasn't built by any civilization that we have here". Having only just returned with the debris, it was obviously impossible for any such determination to be made and all other probabilities investigated and excluded. It could have been wreckage from a project based in one of the military and scientific installations in the New Mexico area, or indeed anywhere else in the United States. It might have been of foreign origin, perhaps a reconnaissance mission, or something more sinister. However, it seems that Major Marcel was so exited by the prospect of finding a "flying disc" that he believed he had done just that. As making a detour home would have delayed an analysis of his intelligence data and compromised the security of it, presumably Major Marcel perceived the "flying disc" to be more of a benign cosmic wonder than any imaginable threat. "The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence officer was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the co-operation of one of the local ranchers", read the press release, which was to form the basis of the news headlines. However, not evident from the release is that it wasn't a "disc" shaped object which had been recovered at all. It was debris which contained foil, paper, sticks, rubber, white tape and purple tape with printing. That was the basis for the "reality" of the flying disk. There's no suggestion in the press release that the "disc" was of unearthly origin and it may not have been perceived to be, although Marcel seemingly thought that was the explanation. It's not known to what extent Blanchard may have been persuaded by his intelligence officer's beliefs, however, the impact of the announcement does seem to have been significantly underestimated. Much of this may be explained by the fact that the press release was inaccurate and misleading. It continued, "The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office. Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the RAAF and subsequently loaned to higher headquarters". Not only did the statement confirm a reality founded wholly on conjecture, there was no disc-shaped object which had landed on anyone's ranch. Neither did Brazel store the "disc" until he could inform the sheriff. As the July 9th issue of the Los Angeles Evening Herald and Express, confirmed, "He said he didn't think much about it until he went into Corona, N.M., last Saturday and heard the flying disc reports". Conversely, there was no suggestion that the "object" was not from earth, no confirmation that the unidentified debris wasn't possibly of US manufacture, no reason for a heightened state of alert, no leave cancelled, no panic, in short, nothing more than an exited and unintentionally deceptive news release. The press release had been issued by 1st Lieutenant Walter Haut, the Army Air Field's Public Information Officer [PIO]. Although Haut claims that Colonel Blanchard dictated the press statement, this has never been confirmed and an alternative explanation could be that Haut was responsible for its content and release. Major Marcel claimed that when he finally arrived back at base with the debris, "we discovered that the story we had found a flying disc had leaked out ahead of us. We had a PIO on the base who had taken it upon himself to call the AP [Associated Press] on this thing". [15] He added, "It was the public information officer, Haut I believe his name was, who called the AP and later wrote the press release. I heard he wasn't authorized to do this and I believe he was severely reprimanded for it, I think all the way from Washington". [16] Whoever was responsible, the story attracted considerable attention and in a comment attributed to Haut, it's claimed that Blanchard "hit the ceiling" when he learned of the international interest. [17] It's a reaction which seems to make little sense if Blanchard had initiated the press release, unless he had somehow misjudged the situation. The development of the Roswell mythology can be viewed as a series of misjudgments; Major Marcel's apparent assumption that he knew enough about every project in existence to rule out any explanation other than a "flying disc", the enthusiastic detour which jeopardised his mission, the failure of the press statement to grasp what had actually taken place and compounding all that went before, the release of that statement. When General Ramey took control of the situation and informed the press that the debris was simply weather balloon wreckage, that was sufficient to end the transient June 1947 episode. At least for the next 30 years. On 20 February, 1978, researcher Stanton Friedman was lecturing in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, when a casual remark from the director of a local TV station led to the case being re-opened. Friedman was informed that the director was acquainted with a Dr Marcel, who had handled wreckage from a "flying saucer" crash. Thus resurrected, the case investigation grew to encompass numerous new claimed witnesses and depositions. Amongst these, there were two key testimonies which become synonymous with various propositions that the debris was from an alien spacecraft, whose occupants had also been found. As noted, Dr Marcel was shown some of the wreckage by his late father. The revived story having gathered momentum and attention, on a number of occasions, Dr Marcel described metallic "I-beams" with symbols, recalled as part of that wreckage. "There were I-beam fragments that had writing on the inside of them", he claimed. [18] As for the symbols: "I thought at first it looked like hieroglyphics, but it wasn't. Hieroglyphics have animal forms birds, and cats, and things, but this wasn't hieroglyphics. It resembled it. Geometric forms and figures, solid forms, but not any kind of recognizable numbers or letters or anything like that. More like squares, triangles, circular ellipsoids, put together in various combinations to form different types of occurrences. I do recall very strongly it was a metallic, purplish color". "And the hieroglyphics were embossed on that. So they stood out from that". [19] Yet, in the 1995 UK Channel 4 "Incident at Roswell" documentary, he seemed to have changed his mind. The program featured the infamous "alien autopsy" video, which includes some brief film of debris supposedly from the crash site and which shows I-beams with embossed symbols. Asked for his comments on similarities with what he recalled, Dr Marcel claimed the embossed symbols in the video footage were different because, "the ones I saw were not raised above the level of the beam". Apparently, a complete contradiction. Dennis Murphy, an acquaintance in the US, spoke to Miller Johnson, who designed a "replica" I-beam with Dr Marcel. Dennis confirmed, "I asked Miller Johnson if Jesse Marcel Jr. knew whether or not the symbols were embossed into the I-beam. He stated that Jesse was not sure if they were or not". Dr Marcel is also unsure of the exact shapes of the symbols. He acknowledges that there is only one symbol, resembling a truncated triangle with a circle on top, which he can recall with any confidence. Whilst Dr Marcel believed the members "sure didn't look like balsa wood, unless it was sprayed with aluminium paint or something like that", [20] his father recalled that they did not look metallic, but "something like balsa wood". [21] And although Marcel Jnr originally claimed the symbols were "actually an embossed part of the metal itself", [22] his father stated, "they looked like they were painted on". [23] Another witness to the debris, Charles Schmid, described "some material that looked like wood" and which "had some writing that looked like flowers on just one side". He added, "it had pink petals, centered like a flower". [24] Dr Marcel has also described the I-beam symbols as "pink and purple", or "a violet-purple type color". His father concurs; "those symbols were pink-purple, lavender was actually what it was". [25] As we know, Loretta Proctor confirmed that Mac Brazel told her, "there was more stuff there, like a tape that had some sort of figures on it...there was also something he described as tape which had printing on it...the colour of the printing was a kind of purple". And Brazel's daughter, Bessie Schreiber, told of how "some of the metal-foil pieces had a sort of tape stuck to them, and when these were held to the light they showed what looked like pastel flowers or designs". As the existence of the tape with purplish symbols isn't disputed, it seems there is good reason to suspect that this tape was also the source of the purplish symbols found on some parts of the debris. Significant corroboration for this is given in Kent Jeffrey's recent article "Roswell - Anatomy of a Myth". [26] He states: "In the last few months, as part of my effort to reconstruct what happened at Roswell, I have had a number of conversations with Irving Newton, the weather officer at Fort Worth Army Air Field who was called in by General Ramey to identify the unusual debris". [...] "In one of my conversations with Newton, quite by chance, a new and important revelation came to light. He was describing the color of the symbols on one of the balsa sticks and mentioned how it was faint and had somewhat of a mottled appearance because of "the way that the dye had bled through onto the surface of the stick." This was a very important piece of information. The symbols that Newton saw on the debris in Ramey's office were on the surface of the stick, not on tape! The tape had apparently peeled away, probably because of several weeks' exposure to sunlight while it lay out in the desert. This serendipitous revelation immediately cleared up one of the biggest questions in my mind about the Roswell case -- how could Jesse Marcel, Sr., or Jesse Marcel, Jr., for that matter, not have recognized flower patterns on tape? The answer is now crystal clear. The symbols they saw were not on tape. What they saw were images of the original symbols from the dye that had bled through before the tape had peeled away. Jesse, Jr.'s testimony about the symbols definitely not being on tape was absolutely correct". When Dr Marcel first gave his testimony in February of 1978, he made no mention of any symbols on the I-beams. Subsequently bringing this to light, in April of 1979, he wrote to Friedman's associate, William Moore, advising, "I omitted one startling description of the wreckage for fear it might have been the fanciful imagination of a twelve-year-old". "Imprinted along the edge of some of the beam remnants there were hieroglyphic-type characters". [27] There seems compelling evidence, the source of the mysterious "hieroglyphics" was that same pinkish-purple tape with flowers. In the US Air Force report, Colonel Trakowski, who was the TOP SECRET control officer for Project Mogul, confirmed the distinctive pinkish- purple tape with flower and heart designs was used at that time, in the construction of balloon radar targets. In the case of bodies having been found at one of several, theoretical other crash sites, key testimonies have again proved to be untrustworthy. Gerald Anderson was an alleged eye-witness to a crashed vehicle with bodies and his well publicised claims were subsequently accepted to be of dubious authenticity. Frank Kaufmann, alias Steve Mackenzie, alias Joseph Osborn, is the latest avowed crash-site witness who is also regarded by many to be equally unreliable. Of greater significance is the realisation that the testimony of former Roswell mortician, Glenn Dennis, is no longer credible. Dennis claimed to have been the close friend and confidant of an army nurse who participated in the autopsies of small, four-fingered, creatures. This story became a foundation of the Roswell case and its possible extraterrestrial basis. Originally, Dennis claimed the nurse was called "Naomi Self" and later "Naomi Selff". When it became clear from the historical records that there was no evidence for any such nurse having served at the airbase, Dennis responded that he had given the wrong name. He offered no explanation or further names for the army nurse. Kevin Randle, a seasoned investigator of the Roswell case, recently acknowledged: "Dennis also said that she had a brother named William (Billy) and I have a listing of more than 250. We could weed some of them out because he had a little biographical information on them. None of them checked out either. Of course, this was all wasted effort because Glenn has now changed the last name of the nurse, after insisting that it was her real name and to please not tell anyone what it was. When a witness makes such a major change in his story, after being confronted with facts, it does not bode well for the story or the witness". A letter dated 6 January, 1997 from Karl Pflock to Dennis was also made public and Pflock, a close friend of Dennis's, confirmed his reluctant conclusions: "There is no record (military or civilian) of and no one interviewed remembers anyone named anything like Naomi Selff or of a crash in which several nurses were killed. There is no record or reliable recollection of any abrupt transfer of any member of the base-hospital nursing staff or of any mysterious activity at the hospital--including an order for regular staff not to report for duty--in early July '47; this includes the recollections of the man who commanded the hospital at the time. The simple truth is, no matter how efficient and far-reaching a group of cover-up conspirators might be, there is absolutely no way they could possibly have eliminated all record and recollection of "Naomi". She simply didn't exist, Glenn". When Glenn Dennis's pivotal testimony collapsed, it took much of the Roswell mystique with it. If further evidence were needed that claims of a crashed alien craft had no basis in fact, it came by way of a number of documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. Time after time, the documents confirm that at the highest levels of the military, government and scientific community, there was a genuine uncertainty and concern about the nature of some "flying disc" reports, but there was consequently no knowledge of any "disc" ever having been found. These documents, from the era succeeding the Roswell press coverage, prove that if such a crash had occurred, it was apparently unknown to: Chief of Staff, USAF Director of Intelligence, USAF Chief of Intelligence, Air Materiel Command, USAF Chief of the Air Estimates Branch, USAF The Air Force Scientific Advisory Board An incredulous scenario and one which serves only to further place the Roswell story in its true perspective. In July of 1947, the Roswell landscape looked different. "Flying discs" had captured the American public's imagination and anything which seemed to be an anomalous flying object was almost by default a "disc". Our concept of a "flying saucer" as a large, saucer-shaped, metallic craft was not universal 50 years ago, when "flying discs" were perceived to be simply objects of unknown origin, not necessarily large and not necessarily metallic, as clearly evident from the newspaper reports of that time. If we accept the Project Mogul explanation as infinitely more likely and supported by the evidence, there is no reason why anyone who was open-minded to the possibilities should feel contrite. So the Army Air Force hadn't actually recovered our popular conception of a flying saucer at all...but that's what was suggested by the press release. And when the issue is confused by a dramatic testimony from such an ostensibly credible witness as Glenn Dennis, it seemed there was a solid foundation to place the further evidence in context. Crash sites galore, wreckage with alien writing, alien bodies recovered and possibly even survivors, autopsies witnessed, a grandiose and cynical cover-up which spanned decades... But it was clearly a specious foundation. All of it. This perception of the Roswell story will be doubtless be an anathema to the Roswell fundamentalists. But it isn't for them, it's for those who are interested in any objective rationalisation of the truth, even, to paraphrase Kent Jeffrey, if it does mean there is no Santa Claus. Certainly not in this instance, anyway. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com Appendix: [1] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 80. [2] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 81. [3] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 81. [4] Affidavit, 22/9/93: Karl Pflock. [5] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 90. [6] "UFO Crash at Roswell", Randle and Schmitt. [7] Affidavit, 5/5/91: Karl Pflock. [8] Affidavit, 22/9/93: "Report of Air Force Research Regarding the 'Roswell Incident'". [9] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 90. [10] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 91. [11] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 93. [12] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 64. [13] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 65. [14] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 65. [15] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 69. [16] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 71. [17] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 76. [18] Interview given by Dr Jesse Marcel, June 1994. [19] Interview given by Dr Jesse Marcel, June 1994. [20] Interview broadcast by KPFA radio, Berkeley, 15/11/94. [21] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 67. [22] "Unsolved Mysteries" documentary. [23] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 68. [24] Video, "UFOs: A Need to Know". [25] "Crash at Corona", Friedman and Berliner, p 100. [26] MUFON Journal, June 1997. [27] "The Roswell Incident", by Berlitz and Moore, p 74.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Skywatch: soundless C 131s From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 22:07:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:41:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Skywatch: soundless C 131s > From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) > To: "(Mail List #3)" <skywatch@wic.net> > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:19:01 -0700 > Subject: Skywatch: soundless C 131's > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > From: ncbuckallew@cp-tel.net (Norm Buckallew) > To: "skywatch" <skywatch@wic.net> > Subject: soundless C 131's > Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 00:10:59 -0500 > To Sky Watch <skywatch@wic.net > >From ncbuckallew@cp-tel.net > Date Aug 3 1997 12:00 A.M. > Subject soundless C 131's > Dear Col.... > A friend that lives in northern Nevada reported to me this evening that > a couple of days ago he and several others watch at least (20) military > C 131 cargo planes flying very low over their heads, apparently heading > for the Nevada test range. > He stated they were so low the fellows standing in the open cargo doors > were waving to them as they went over, the strange thing was there was > no engine noise what so ever. They appeared to been about 200 feet up > and were flying at no more than fifty miles an hour, all heading into > the small pass that goes toward the test site. He also stated another > air plane bearing the presidental seal on the side was also seen in the > same vacinity. > Just a note that might be interesting. > Thanks C.B. It is possible that this may represent an example of the application of "active noise cancellation technology". Several companies provide this technology for fixed, stationary machinery and it has also been applied to ground transportation as well. This technology works very effectively with repetitive noise/sound producing machinery such as engines. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: UFO sighting, NYC From: "skyeking@aye.net" <skyeking@aye.net> [Jerry Washington] Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 22:13:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:47:53 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting, NYC > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:33:19 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: UFO sighting, NYC > It's getting harder and harder for me to post reports of daylight UFO > activity over NY. I am not 'Ed Walters' nor do I 'wanna be!' > ...Unless I can get, "a piece of one" I will not be (publicly) posting > sighting reports in the future. I will notify CUFOS and the National > Reporting Center anonymously. I don't want, nor do I need, the kind of > attention that follows in the wake of frequent UFO sightings reported by > a single individual. It really is a shame that it's like that. > John Velez, Alien Spawn Dear Spawn: Though I'm not quite in your position, I have taken flack for holding firm to my belief in the absolute reality of my own sightings (and one very close encounter) which occurred over a three year period (1971-73) in my hometown of Oak Ridge, TN. ("Atomic City, USA"). Some folks just can't handle the truth or they're wallowing in a depth of denial that borders on the pathological. It's tough for them to accept the fact that humankind ain't necessarily numero uno on the galatic foodchain. And while I may empathize with their distress, their opinions are irrelevant, John, and do absolutely nothing to alter the "big picture." However, you're endeavors HAVE been useful in helping the less myopic of us out here to bring that vision into a sharper focus. That's why I would suggest you reconsider you're decision to bailout. Amidst the hue and cry, real data IS being gathered; the truth is gradually being uncovered, and let's face it: at this stage of the "invasion," that awareness may be our only defense. Jerry Washington SD Kentucky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Air National Guard Captain Interviewed On Arizona From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 04:15:49 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:55:40 -0400 Subject: Air National Guard Captain Interviewed On Arizona Found on the site of T.A.S.K. (Tri-State Advocates For Scientific Knowledge). "T.A.S.K. is a non-profit group dedicated to the study of UFOs and other 'unusual phenomena.' It is the group's intent to conduct investigations and research into these matters with the highest degree of scientific integrity." The URL of the interview is: http://home.fuse.net/task/SULLINS.htm On Tuesday, August 5, 1997, Capt. Drew Sullins, of the Maryland Air National Guard was interviewed by Kenny Young of T.A.S.K. regarding the March 13th Arizona UFO reports. YOUNG: Thanks for taking time from your busy schedule to talk this afternoon about Project Snowbird and the flare droppings over Arizona that generated some attention. One of the things I want to discuss is the TIME DELAY in announcing the explanation for this event, which was a duration of almost 4 to 5 months. Is there any reason to your knowledge for this delay? SULLINS: Yes there is, and I don't think people are going to believe it, but it's the truth... it's a simple miscommunication. Apparently when the military in Phoenix was first approached, they looked at their flight logs, which are kept in two separate categories called "RESIDENT" and "VISITING" logs. These logs chart all of the incoming or outgoing air traffic. When the first inquiries of this went out, DAVIS-MONTHAN didn't check the visiting flight logs. The Public Affairs Officer down there called the people at operations who kept the flight logs, and they said, "we didn't have anything up that day." After several months, Captain Eileen Bienz was told by someone, and I can't remember who, that there was a project called Snowbird, which was an Air National Guard 'Op.' Bienz didn't have information on Snowbird, because Arizona units don't participate in it. Snowbird is an operation run during the winter when they take A.N.G. units located in the northern U.S. When it snows and the weather gets bad, they fly their units out there for a couple of weeks and train during the winter because the weather for flying is so good. Bienz put two and two together and checked the visiting flight logs, and sure enough it was discovered that there was an Air National Guard unit flying around. YOUNG: So the miscommunication was due to Davis-Monthan? SULLINS: Yeah, it wasn't on my part. Captain Bienz called me up and told me the whole story, just a couple of weeks ago and first I ever heard of it, and said, 'now can you confirm these things?' So I called our Ops guys of the 175th Wing & 104th Fighter Squadron, and they were able to confirm for me that they were flying that night in that area and dropping flares. The information was not held, as soon as we got it together it was released. YOUNG: Why had the pilots in this unit, knowing they did this, not come forth in the hours after the publicity to announce the proper explanation? SULLINS: First of all, the deployment for the unit was on the last day of a 15-day training mission happening during the first 2-weeks of March. It was one of the last missions they flew out there, and by the time it hit the news, they might have been gone. The story wasn't the big news event in Baltimore that it was in Phoenix. I think they seemed genuinely suprised that they were the cause of all the hub-bub. YOUNG: When you say they were 'gone,' what do you mean by that? SULLINS: They came back to Maryland. It was a 2-week training mission. They were there the first 2-weeks in March, and so by March 13th, that night, they landed and probably got up on March 14th or 15th and rolled out of there. YOUNG: There was plenty of national media exposure regarding this, and also a second-wave of publicity in mid-June following the USA TODAY article. Is there any reason these pilots or affiliates with the squadron would not have come forth with this explanation in spite of all this? SULLINS: Well I honestly don't think that they knew. I really don't. The lead pilot that night, a Lieutenant Colonel by the name of Ron Henry, was retiring about that time... he's retired now and commuting back and forth to Minneapolis and he's really busy. He's in the flight training program for Northwest Airlines learning how to fly a DC-9, and all these guys are really busy. They're citizen airmen and citizen soldiers, so they have full-time jobs and careers, families and other things they have to manage. Look, I'll be honest with you, until Captain Bienz called me up, I honestly had not even heard about this. I read two papers in the morning, one of them on the internet, one in my office, and so if I could miss it, then I guess they could too. YOUNG: Was the lead pilot and others involved aware that dropping these flares would produce the results among the population below that it did? SULLINS: No, I don't think they would have known because it's a standard routine training mission out there. Flares are dropped alot on that range. On that particular night, the visibility and atmospheric conditions were such that the things could have been viewed from the southwestern suburbs of Phoenix. These flares can be seen from hundreds of miles if the weather conditions are right. Apparently, they're not the only unit out there that dropped flares. Who's to say, perhaps the weather conditions and everything just kind of came together and these things could be seen from Phoenix. YOUNG: You speculate that other units could have also been involved? SULLINS: The only units we had flying that night were the eight aircraft from the 104th Fighter Squadron. YOUNG: What about the arguments that the flares were visible longer than 1-hour, when the actual burn-time for parachute flares would be around 4 or 5 minutes? SULLINS: They were dropping alot of flares. They were over that range for over an hour. One aircraft would go in, drop a couple of flares, make its run and attack a target, then another aircraft would come in from behind and illuminate the range again, so they were continually dropping flares in that area. YOUNG: So the pilots could see the flares from their plane? SULLINS: Oh yes. YOUNG: Would they have been able to visualize that this could be something the population below would notice as well? SULLINS: I can't speak for the pilots because I wasn't flying, but the dropping of flares out there is so routine that I don't see why they would've had any cause for alarm. YOUNG: Again, the delay in this announcement is somewhat odd. How many men would have been involved with the 104th Fighter Squadron that would have had knowledge of this operation? SULLINS: There were eight aircraft. Eight pilots. YOUNG: Were there also officers loading the flares in pods under the wings who would have had knowledge of this? SULLINS: I'd have to call the squadron on that, but once Davis- Monthan checked the visiting flight logs, they were able to explain it. The base knew about it, but they just didn't check the visiting flight logs. YOUNG: How would this activity have been specified or listed on a flight log? SULLINS: That's a good question. I don't have an answer to that one. YOUNG: Do they list flare exercises in flight logs? SULLINS: Anytime you're flying at night in the A-10 Thunderbolt on a night training exercise, it's probable that you'll always be dropping flares. It's very routine, there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY about what they did out there. YOUNG: It was obviously extraordinary in light of the public reaction to the operation. SULLINS: Well that was, but not the mission itself. YOUNG: Do they announce flare exercises in advance so as not to cause public alarm? SULLINS: No. YOUNG: They do not? SULLINS: No, they never have before. It's never produced this public response before and our pilots have flown this same mission out of that range a number of times before, and done so without so much as raising an eyebrow. YOUNG: Would all the reports of a triangular object, mentioned in the USA Today article, be attributable to the flare droppings? SULLINS: I don't know. I've only seen videotapes twice, and they looked like flares to me. YOUNG: I recalled that some of the early reports on this that some Air Tower Operators were looking at these flares and at the same time detected no radar track of any aircraft on radar. Could you please tell me if eight A-10's which were dropping flares would have any Stealth capabilities which would have caused them not to be detected by radar? SULLINS: Nope, and the pilots told me that they had everything operating that night and that they should've shown up on radar. Sky Harbor International Airport held radar surveillance for this area, and I don't want to speak for them, and don't know what their coverage area is, but I understand that the area is restricted military airspace. Sky Harbor International Airport will have to answer for those questions. The A-10's do not have any Stealth technology on it, and they were flying with all of their navigation radar systems and everything operating. YOUNG: Since we had some alarm and concern generated from the public over the March 13 flare droppings, would it be possible to duplicate an identical event for the public, and arrange for the media to be present to document the event? SULLINS: As the pilots explained it to me, it may have been the atmospheric conditions that night which allowed this thing to be seen so far away in Phoenix, but I'm not so sure we could replicate or duplicate the exact conditions that night. But secondly, it costs a hell of a lot of money to fly these planes for an hour, and I don't know that the United States Air Force would authorize that expenditure. I'd be willing to bet that since this has happened, a whole bunch of flares have dropped over that range since then. YOUNG: So a repeat performance to satisfy the populace would not be possible? SULLINS: I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying that I'm the wrong guy to ask. You're not going to get the Maryland Air National Guard to fly all the way across the country to replicate the event. That's a request that'll have to be made to the United States Air Force in the Pentagon, and that would then be handed down to the National Guard Bureau, and it goes from echelon to echelon, through the bureaucratic process. Davis- Monthan could assist there, if one were to inquire when the next training mission would be scheduled over Luke AFB where A-10s will be dropping flares from between 10 and 15 thousand feet. That is essentially all you have to replicate. The thing that people are getting all bent out of shape about is the fact that I never offered this as the 'definitive explanation' for what happened. We only offered this up because an inquiry was made to the military regarding unidentified lights. We released all the information on our operation, but we are not prepared to say definitively that these are, in fact, the lights. I'm not trying to stir anything up here, but I can only say that our unit was there, we flew these missions, we dropped these flares. Alot of people think it's flares. Some of the pilots who've looked at the videos flat out said it was flares. According to what every military expert and A-10 pilot told me leads me to believe it was flares. YOUNG: Since another demonstration would be difficult, would it be possible to notify the public in the event of future exersizes of this nature? SULLINS: Look, I gotta be completely candid here, we're not going to pick up the phone every darn time we do something. Military operations are just that - military operations. They're not things that the public is used to seeing on an everyday basis, and if everytime we conducted something that we thought the general public would find unusual, I'd spend my whole life on the phone telling people about our training. And in Maryland, we don't drop flares. And the reason we dropped so many flares in Tucson is because its one of the few places we can go to execute that mission. There is no place in Maryland that we could drop these flares safely. The Warfield A.N.G. base outside of Baltimore is not properly equipped to load, handle and store these type of flares and other ordinances. When we go to Arizona, we fly lots of these missions, and try to maximize our time out there because we can't do it at home. So we don't have any need to call people here at home and tell them our plans. YOUNG: If it were ever deemed needful to announce anything, who would be contacted? SULLINS: I would put out the release. If my boss came to me and said that we were going to be conducting an exersize that would alarm the general public, then I would put out a news release to the TV, radio and newspapers. YOUNG: Do you also handle NOTAM (Notice To Airmen) reports or advisories to other airports or pilots in the area of exersizes? SULLINS: I don't know what a NOTAM report is, I've never heard of one here. YOUNG: I do appreciate your time and detailed information today. SULLINS: My pleasure. COMMENT: It was obvious that Capt. Sullins was knowledgeable about the flight operations of the Maryland A.N.G. and familiar with the flare maneuvers. He had clearly handled several of these questions previously, and had also indicated that he interviewed several of the pilots involved. He may have been briefed on how to handle these inquiries, as much of what he said was strikingly similar to comments made to me by a captain from the 178th Fighter Group and 162nd Fighter Squadron Flying Unit Fighter Operations division from Springfield Air National Guard base after a separate but identical incident happened in Southern Ohio on March 26. I found Sullins to be courteous and very professional. However, I am uncomfortable by the fact that the pilots of the eight aircraft responsible, or the other airman involved in the unit operations of the 175th Wing & 104th Fighter Squadron, would supposedly have 'not heard' of the March 13th debacle involving UFOs over Arizona. I cannot fathom that these persons would not "do the right thing" and put the matter to rest as abruptly as possible. Recall that Snowbird remained in Arizona at least the following afternoon, or possibly several days after the March 13th event, giving them plenty of opportunities to hear of the UFO reports which had saturated the Arizona media. Furthermore, Sullins seemed befuddled by the lack of radar returns for the A-10 activity from Sky Harbor International Airport. He also didn't elect to address the reports of a triangular object supposedly observed, and dismissed the public reaction of a 'routine' exersize to weather conditions, an identical scenario first advanced to T.A.S.K. from the Springfiled A.N.G. units after the Ohio disturbance on March 26. In an honest assessment of this drama, I must observe that the Arizona scenario is highly suspicious and all-too-similar to the March 26th Ohio happening. And due to the delayed confession from the Maryland Air National Guard, one must seriously consider if an ulterior motive may be at work in this travesty. The Ohio event dealt also with a large, triangular object traveling overhead, and also a 'bouncing' object that was witnessed by a fire and E.M.S. coordinator from New Vienna, Ohio. The Arizona flare explanation, like the Ohio story, is complicated by nagging inconsistencies that come against the flare explanation. I am satisfied that flares were there, but if the other reports are to honestly considered, then we only have a partial resolution to this very interesting mystery. K. Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Skywatch: Re: silent engines From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:58:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Skywatch: Re: silent engines I know nothing of inherently silent aircraft engines, but there has definitely been research in CANCELLATION of engine noise. Strategically placed microphones feed data into a computer, which outputs sound waveforms to strategically placed speakers 180 degrees out of phase with the original sound waves. This causes sound cancellation through destructive interference, a very old principle. I think there has been work along these lines to produce a relatively quiet (but not silent) helicopter. In the civilian arena, the same idea has been experimented with to get rid of automobile mufflers, which decrease gas mileage and engine power. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 03:04:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:58:20 -0400 Subject: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > From: "Gary Mont" <gem@mulberry.com> > To: <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: an alien face in Jung's UFO book > Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 03:00:35 -0400 < big snip > > sigh.... once again, try Z. Sitchin. > In antiquity, they were known as the Watchers - which sort of says a > lot about their 'position' of reference. > The little statues have been collected from all over the globe - and > yes, they resemble our modern greys very very much. The UFO phenomena > did not begin in the 50s. The UFO Reporting Phenomena did however. > Most folks avoid Sitchin, because he proposes a non-divine origin. > Actually he simply tells a tale that is 1000s of years old, as told > by the Sumerians. Natheless, t'is a story absolutely nobody wants to > accept, since it leaves humanity without a nice after-death-scenario. > However, it gives some pretty interesting clues to who the Nordics, > and the Greys actually are. And oddly enough, they do indeed be > somewhat genetically compatible with humans. > It is also a story which, no matter which way the wind blows, you > WILL eventually have to hear. > G. Sitchin was not the first to make these observations when he published these concepts in the mid 1970's. However you may find it interesting to note that it was none other than astronomer Carl Sagan in "Intelligent Life in The Universe" (1966) who FIRST introduced into the literature the idea that Sumerian writings documented human - extra terrestrial contact. Sagan's writing on this pre-dates Sitchin by 10 years! and so far I have not been able to trace the appearance of this linkage back further in the literature (Budd Hopkins also noted this same point in an article of his I recently read). Moreover Sagan was no Sumerian scholar and doesn't discuss in his book how he came to research this Sumerian connection. I wonder how he came to make this connection and would appreciate any readers leads on the origin of Sagan's hypothesis. Another interesting Sagan observation regarding aliens has to do with his hypothesis that aliens might communicate using portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. Sagan also made this statement in "Intelligent Life in The Universe". Curiously it is none other than Col. Philip J. Corso in his book "The Day After Roswell" pages 191-192, 194-196 that notes that the Roswell aliens brain activity "displayed a signal similar to what we would call long, low-frequency waves". Was Sagan just speculating or leaking material learned about aliens? Oddly enough 20 years later Corso discusses in detail the idea that the Roswell aliens are capable of using long, low frequency electromagnetic waves for communication. Perhaps Corso is confirming Sagan's leak? More on Corso later. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Klass Article In Current Issue Of Astronomy From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:31:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:00:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Klass Article In Current Issue Of Astronomy > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/7/97 5:43 PM: > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:14:07 +0200 > Subject: Klass Article In Current Issue Of Astronomy > Received this from "alt.alien.visitors" August 7 at 17.43 local Danish > time (GMT + 2 hours): > 7. August 1997 17.27.20 > alt.alien.visitors Item > From: cluster_user@yale.edu,usenet > Subject: Phil Klass- article in Astronomy > To: alt.alien.visitors > The issue of Astronomy on the newstands right now is devoted in some > measure to UFO debunkery, complete with a big article (advertised on > the cover) by Klass called "A Field Guide to UFOs" or some such > nonsense. > Check out Klass' article, then write to Astronomy for lowering their > standards so appallingly. I currently have a query letter in to Astronomy, to provide an (already written) positive, evidence-oriented article to balance the Klass nonsense. Wish me luck! BTW, the Klass article has an interesting Hudson Valley photo which looks like anything but a formation of ultralights or conventional aircraft. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 UFOSearch #9 part 4a/4: Science, From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:24:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:05:36 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #9 part 4a/4: Science, [It has been brought to my attention that 'Val German' is, in all probability, aka 'Val Valerian', aka 'John Grace', formerly associated with John Lear. The following should be read with that information in mind - ebk] This is part four (4a) of the ninth essay by UFOSearch. Part four will be released in four sections designated 4a, 4b, 4c and 4d. This essay is being published for the first time on the UFO UpDate mail list. NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. If you would like to correspond with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com Commentary: Apologies to readers for the somewhat confusing numbering system necessitated by releasing the essay through listserve email distribution. The following summarizes the titles and parts of the essay released so far: UFOSearch essay #9: Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Part One - Abstract and Introduction Part Two - Counterintelligence And UFO Analysis Part Three - The Counterintelligence Use Of Research And Analysis In Small-Scale UFO Investigations Part Four 4a - Evaluating UFO Scenarios Using Counterintelligence 4b - (to be released) UFO Scenario Analysis: THE KEYHOE SCENARIO 4c - (to be titled) 4d - (to be titled) Gary Alevy -------------------------------------------------------------- Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Val Germann Columbia, Missouri (C) 1997 Part 4a of Four Evaluating UFO Scenarios Using Counterintelligence In Part Four (a, b, c and d) we are going to analyze three UFO scenarios, THE KEYHOE SCENARIO (1956), THE LEAR SCENARIO (1987) and THE STRIEBER SCENARIO (1989). All three of these are based to some degree on leaks purporting to be from "the government," in particular a part of the government said to have something to do with UFOs. These leaks were powerful enough and credible enough that full adults with something to lose put them into print over their real names. It is thus possible that there might be something to these leaks, though heaven knows what. The questions are many, among them: 1) What methods can one use in evaluating such extreme possibilities as these? They seem so outlandish! 2) What information is available that might help? 3) Are there any situations in the "real" world that in any way resemble these three scenarios? That is, can we find any overlap at all between the above scenarios and what we know are "real- world" events? 4) Can these "leaks" be in some way counterintelligence related? That is, can a "theory of leaks" be applied to them as well as to events we "know" from the "real world?" Does this analysis lead to the acceptance or non-acceptance of the leaks as accurate? I will attempt answers to the above questions as we move along in Part Four. But first we have to take a look at a few more interesting and arcane counterintelligence principles and techniques. I believe my readers will soon see their relevance to the very deep CI water we find ourselves in when we begin to study the UFO carefully. Our own "government" may in fact be using CI techniques in the UFO arena, for various reasons, not all of them having to do with UFOs. We will explore this idea as we move along. But now, back to counterintelligence. Some "Advanced" Counterintelligence Techniques One of the principles of the CI trade is that there is an opponent of sorts who must be first identified and secondly thwarted. Implied here is that the CI agent has the money and staff to DO SOMETHING about this possible opponent. Thus, true counterintelligence, the whole gamut, is always the tool of those with money and resources, that is: 1) The government, state and federal, plus the regular military. 2) The "other" government, that is, our intelligence apparatus. 3) Corporate interests including private security firms. 4) Well-off individuals such as H.Ross Perot, who use CI. We must never forget that the use of intensive CI methods is very expensive, in both time and money, and therefore these methods are not available to the individual UFO researcher. In fact, as we have seen, the UFO researcher, as a private citizen, can sometimes be the victim of such CI techniques, as I myself may have been in the late 1980s and early 1990s. That is, in my particular case, by the middle of 1989 I was publishing my findings locally and to a few contacts around the country. I was also making numerous long-distance phone calls around the nation exchanging views with other researchers. I had been on a three-hour telephone hookup on a radio station in Alaska! Then the day came, in the summer of 1990, when I drove home unexpectedly about 3 p.m. and found a "telephone man" climbing down from a pole on the back line of my property. He muttered something about a computer finding a problem on my line as he walked quickly past me and around my house to the front yard. I stood puzzled for about 20 seconds, remembering that I had NOT seen a telephone truck in the street as I had arrived home. I hurried after this fellow but when I got to the front yard he was nowhere to be seen! He had disappeared in less than a minute. The phone company had no record of anyone being sent to my house to fix any problem, or so they said. Was this a crude and obvious attempt to tap my phone? Well, something was going on because from this time until early in 1991 I had continuous problems with the telephone and several of my UFO contacts told me they thought my phone "sounded" tapped, in a very crude and transparent way. During one intense conversation with a UFO researcher we were actually cut off abruptly during an exchange about the tapping of my phone! I took this as con- firmation of something, probably not just bad luck. About this same time I made the acquaintance of several people, some in person, some over the telephone, who wanted to know more about what I was doing. The large majority of this, no doubt, was simple curiosity, based on the fact that some of my work was going around the country. But some of it was truly different. I had developed a "source," one with a CI background, who told me on the QT (don't ask, don't tell) that he had seen a "flying disk" up on huge wooden blocks at an Air Force base here in the United States in the early 1970s. This gentleman lived some distance away but came to Columbia over and over again to talk to me. In the end I gave him a copy of nearly everything I had written up to that time. And I did this knowingly. That is, even though I had reason to believe this person was some kind of operative I did not really care. I gave away what I had because I did not want any mistakes to be made. I wanted this guy's bosses, if he had any, to get the thing right, directly from me, and not have to rely on this fellow's hand-written notes. I had also developed another source, also ex-military, who told me an even wilder story, a frightening story, one not too-dis- similiar from the "Lear Letter" scenario but with significant differences. My readers will be hearing more about this later. Yes, those were strange times for me, very strange. For instance, I was told by someone who might know that I was "marked" by my childhood experiences with UFOs. The implication was that I myself was involved in THEIR program in some way. This was reinforced by another strange sighting I had, right in my front yard, in 1991. But, that's for later. It has been said that we Americans have no one-word name for a reasonable, continuing fear. Well, I was in need of one then and by mid-1991 I was quite convinced that the counterintelligence model was the one that made sense and that the assumptions of objective science were not up to the task. I learned that in the real world, surveillance, infiltration and the agent provocateur were fundamental tools of the counterintelligence operative. In fact, I might have been finding some of that out personally. Another thing I found out was that simple surveillance, if carried out crudely by people with money and time, is itself intimidating. There was no need for Black Helicopters to fly overhead or for large, dark-colored sedans to park along my street. One visit from a "phone man" and some continuing trouble with the telephone were quite enough, thank you. I discovered right away that the "fun quotient" for subjects of possible CI activity quickly plummeted to very nearly zero. Taken together these events shocked me greatly. What could be so important that my involvement in it could bring such attention so fast? Sending agents to tap my phone and interview me (if that was what was happening) was expensive, extremely so. I was amazed, amazed because I really am "nobody." That is, I have no pedigree of any particular kind. I am not rich nor am I related to anyone who is. My ancestors are all from Germany and England and came over to North America with very little. If, as it seemed possible, BOTH the powers behind the "UFO" and its human investigators had the resources to deal with ME, a nobody, just because I was getting seriously interested, well, that was more than a little scary. That was more than I wanted to know. It meant that UFOs were very likely BIG, very BIG, with someone. There was no doubt, someone had something to protect. And as we should remember, implied in the CI process is that the agency, institution or individual using the technique has something to protect. This is so because the bedrock function of counter- intelligence is security, security of personnel, facilities and operations. It is for this reason that people are vetted and classification systems set up. Only when good security exists does the CI team turn to offensive action against the opponent, usually involving the passive collection of information followed by more aggressive actions, the placing of agents, etc.. Could it have been that I was "onto something?" Could it have been that one of my sources was legitimate? I thought it was possible and I spilled my guts, minus the names, because I don't want any mistakes being made. I am a loyal American, an Army veteran, as well as being a husband and father. I don't want any trouble. But, at the same time, I would like to know what in the blue blazes is going on in my life and in the wider world as well! But I never, never reveal names, nor enough information so that one could get a name, unless one had an ENORMOUS amount of money and time, which, no doubt, some do! It should be obvious by now that though some counterintelligence methods can be seen as relatively benign, most are not the kind of things you do to your friends, at least, not if you want to keep them as friends. This is because the basis for many CI techniques is deception, pure and simple, and deception under- mines trust. This last is one of the reasons that DOMESTIC counterintelligence operations, that is, against U.S. citizens at home, conducted by FBI, Military Intelligence, NSA, CIA, etc., were such a deep secret in the pre-Watergate years. The extreme erosion of trust in our government that we see on the American scene today is one of the results of Cold War spying on U.S. citizens by our alphabet soup of "intelligence agencies." [47] Today's CI techniques begin with the simple collection of information, from both open and covert sources. Many target organizations have publications that reveal, for the general public and the spy, valuable information. Where these are lacking or incomplete, one can either approach a current member for information (quite innocently and above board) or infiltrate an agent into the target organization. Or you might PAY a current member for really important information, that is, pay that person to betray his friends, turning that person into an "agent in place." It is usually best to have some personal dirt on such a person before approaching them, this making the "hooking" (as such recruiting is called) go much more smoothly. And if the target member has financial problems, all the better. The IRS sometimes comes in handy here for the Federal CI boys. And sometimes a "good cop -- bad cop" approach works very well. That is, two approaches might be made at the same time, one of them threatening, one of them more gentle, and seemingly from two different organizations. It is amazing how much good information can be gotten this way, even from people who should know better. For instance, Whitley Strieber refused to give the "intelligence community" any information about the authors of the some 140,000 letters he has received since 1987 and COMMUNION. [48] But, at the same time, he turned over to Congressional staffers very similar information to that which the secret agents were after, as well as character sketches of prominent ufologists and others in the field. As one should know, giving things to Congress is hardly the way to ensure their protection from spies. I ask you to consider that if UFOs are really important then there is an "internal security" aspect to them. That is, UFO investigators and organizations simply must be of interest to the FBI and military intelligence, the organizations primarily charged today with maintaining internal security. [Editors Note: In his STRATEGIC ASSESSMENT: THE INTERNET of July 17, 1995 Mr. Charles Swett, Assistant for Strategic Assessment, Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict stated that MUFON bore careful watching because it "has its own computer network with a gateway to the Internet. Much of the traffic on this network refers to U.S. military operations that members believe relate to investigations and cover-ups of UFO-related incidents, and other messages contain details on MUFON's efforts to conduct surveillance of DoD installations and to obtain information on UFOs that they believe exists in classified form."] Consider as you read the next several paragraphs whether or not there is any evidence of CI in the UFO arena. First, consider the known and possible players in the UFO game: 1) Government agencies (some of them with secret internal security responsibilities); 2) Former government employees and military officers (some with secret documents to release); 3) High-powered academics, most of them with ties to the military or even intelligence community agencies. What could some of these people have learned about CI in the normal course of their professional career? 4) Private citizens, seemingly unconnected to any government agency, but actually working for one or more them. William Moore comes to mind here, as does (possibly) Allen Hynek, who, as Vallee says, was thought by many not to be associated with the Air Force by the early 1960s. [Editor's Note: There are those who say that in the late 1980's several members of European royal houses began to put money into American abduction research because they believed that members of their family had been abducted. Both these research programs and their results are not intended to be made public. In the 1990's Robert Bigelow, a prominent but reclusive Nevada millionaire, sponsored the research work of several ufologists and funds the National UFO Reporting Center.] Now, consider again the evidence presented in the first three parts of this paper. I believe that any objective analysis of this material will call for further work in this area. That is, it seemed there just HAD to be CI effort in the UFO arena. But what was its exact nature and who was behind it? Is this type of activity still ongoing today? These are very difficult questions to answer, though we already have much to go on based on what I have already presented. Scenario analysis helps a great deal here, helps put together large accumulations of data and helps to organize that data. Luckily, by the time I needed a scenario I had at least THREE to work with, an abundance of riches. So, today, after nearly a decade of hard work and a great deal of research and analysis, I still have not answered with certainty any of my fundamental questions about the UFO. That is, I do not know exactly WHAT the UFOS are; I do not know for sure WHO is operating them; I do not know exactly WHAT "they" are doing here or WHY they are doing it. But I have some IDEAS about these questions, some HYPOTHESES, concerning these questions, which we will be exploring in the final sections of this paper using the method of scenario analysis. *** Notes To Part 4a [47] AMERICA'S SECRET POWER, see note [13], contains the text of an interview with Thomas Huston, of the infamous Huston Plan, (on page 157) which, says the book's author, "called for lawlessness on the part of American intelligence agencies." But the problem was, Huston says, that the programs he suggested in 1973 were ALREADY underway and Top Secret! Says Huston, "We didn't know about the CIA mail openings. I didn't know about the FBI's COINTELPRO. These people were conducting these things without the President's knowledge. In retrospect, we looked like damned fools." Yes, indeed, truth IS stranger than fiction! [48] In Whitley Strieber's 1995 book BREAKTHROUGH (Putnams) we read that he refused "recruitment" by "intelligence operatives" in the 1980s. But then, after MAJESTIC appeared (1989, Putnams) he was approached by "Congressional staffers," unnamed, who eventually were to get from him information on his sources for MAJESTIC as well as "character studies on various UFO researchers they asked me about." See pages 227-28 and pages 249-53 of BREAKTHROUGH for the details on this interesting affair. *** [End -- Part 4a of Part Four]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Yellowrose <yelorose@swbell.net> [Amy Hebert] Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 03:33:00 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:12:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:05:22 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? <snip> >This is all pure speculation of course, but why attach base 'human' motives >to something/someone who may not share our rather limited views of life and >it's possibilities. It may not be 'contempt' or 'muscle flexing' at all, >but instead an act of mercy, responsibility, and the same kind of >protective concern we show our own young ones. As human adults we >instinctively/automatically will attempt protect the innocent ones among us >from unecessary shock or strife. Two questions, John... WHICH "beings" are you referring to and how can we know their motives? Amy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Skywatch: Re: silent engines From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 08 Aug 97 09:23:59 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:20:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Skywatch: Re: silent engines >From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) >To: "(Mail List #3)" <skywatch@wic.net> >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:28:14 -0700 >Subject: Reply: Skywatch: silent engines RE: Silent engines Sound waves are like any other waves. They can be cancelled by other waves generated at the appropriate frequencies. The More complex the waveforms, the more difficult this is. You can buy a gadget for around a hundred dollars that looks like a Walkman which "hears" sounds around you and generates sound waves to cancel it out. I tried one, and it is amazing. Almost dead silence in a noisy store! I'm sure this technology has been studied by the military and intelligence agencies. After all, what better than a silent spy??? I would assume that the more energy there is in the original sound waves the more energy would be required to cancel them out, but I can envision equipping aircraft with big speakers driven by powerful amplifiers to generate the cancelling waves. I'm not supporting the report posted, which sounds a bit too weird, but the technology seems to be no big deal. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 08 Aug 97 09:24:03 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:24:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:05:22 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >I've been wondering about the dramatic increase in sighting reports >worldwide. The key word here is 'increasing'. Why does it have to be a show >of strength or contempt for our puny defenses? What if we are gradually >being conditioned by an intelligence so far in advance of our own that they >are simply attempting to reduce the shock of contact on the worlds >population? John, Could it simply be that because of all the attention given to UFOs in the media recently that more people are looking at the skies, and more finding the courage to report what they see? It may be that the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was right when he said that UFOs are nothing more than the truck drivers of the universe. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 06:42:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:15:42 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 17:08:06 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Bob Shell: Credible Expert or PR Flack? >Bob Shell says that he is far too busy to answer all of our nagging >(yet fundamental) questions regarding his involvement in the Alien >Autopsy "film" controversy. >However, he seems to have plenty of time to chime-in with his defense >of Ray Santilli's copyright claims. As an impartial, independent >"photo expert", why the hell should he care one way or another about >the validity of Santilli's copyright claims? I think that Bob saw a statement made on the "list" that needed a response to help bring it into perspective. It is my opinion that Bob began his investigation as an impartial investigator, but like many others has found himself drawn into it and has become a part of the story. >I pose this question to the esteemed readers and participants of >UFO UpDates: In light of Mr. Shell's constant evasions and >distortions concerning the details of the origins, and his alleged >analysis of, the AA "film," and his eager defense of Santilli's >questionable copyright claims, does anyone here consider him to be >anything other than a shameless PR flack for Santilli & Co.? Since I believe your questions have actually been answered previously by Shell and others, I think that the "evasions and distortions" you mention here are matters of opinion. I, for one, don't believe that Bob is a "shameless PR flack" for anyone. However, I would acknowledge that his relationship with Ray and others raises the question of impartiality whenever statements are made by him. However, the criticism here appears to be directed at the messenger, rather than the message. Bob's reply was a valid one, adding information to the debate, which can (in turn) be analyzed by readers and responded to as necessary. I am grateful that Bob, and others, take time to post information to the "net" so that we call can benefit. Of course, I take that information and determine what to accept or reject based on my own knowledge, experience, and faith. I certainly would not reject information simply because I felt that messenger was not impartial; however, I would certainly take that into account. Let's get back on topic.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Romanian UFO - 13 Mars 1994 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:36:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:36:32 -0400 Subject: Romanian UFO - 13 Mars 1994 From: "Manoliu Valentin" <manovale@starnets.ro> To: <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Romanian UFO Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:37:59 +0300 On 13 Mars 1994, at 8.36 a bright impulse was observed on the radar inn the Chisinau-Cris zone.=20 It was traveling to the Apuseni Mountains. After an hour, a MIG 23 took off at the Timisoara Airport, on a cloudy sky. It was piloted by the Captain Teodor Voicu. The plane traveled 100 kilometers for identifying the target, then he executed turnings of 360=B0, trying to discover the enemy but= without success. The object confirmed his trajectory with a speed among 100 and 300 km. per hour. It straightened to Beius and then he flew over Aries to Alba-Iulia. The bright impulse could be watched on the screens of the radars how it flew over the Transilvania Plateau and passed over the Sibiu zone and the Fagaras Mountains.=20 A military helicopter took off in a military unity from that zone. It flew with high speed to the target trying to identify it. A moment, on the radar, the signal of the helicopter overlapped with the signal of the target. But the pilot did not observe any real target. Eventually the helicopter came back to base. The bright impulse flew over the Carpatii de Curbura Mountains and it seemed that it wanted to cross Valea Prahovei, but it came back and followed the route of the river Buzau, then he lower to Giurgiu. It crossed the Danube over the Harsova, then over Dobrogea. After all, the bright impulse divided in two. One of them straightened to Chilia and left the Romanian territory to Ukraine. The second one passed over the Gura Portitei zone and it could be seen on the radars on a distance of 20 km over the Black Sea. The object was followed by all the units of the anti-aircraft artillery over its trajectory. It did not reply at the identification signals. For 10
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 12:19:25 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 > From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 17:08:06 cst > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Bob Shell: Credible Expert or PR Flack? > I pose this question to the esteemed readers and participants of > UFO UpDates: In light of Mr. Shell's constant evasions and > distortions concerning the details of the origins, and his alleged > analysis of, the AA "film," and his eager defense of Santilli's > questionable copyright claims, does anyone here consider him to be > anything other than a shameless PR flack for Santilli & Co.? Vince, Of course Bob is no such thing. And why use such shameless, or rather, shameful, language, as "PR flack", "scam" etc.? It's very poor behavior to try to drag others down to your level of discourse. He's followed the AA affair closely, has met and talked several times with Santilli, and regards him as an amiable, basically honest chap who has a tendency to exaggerate at times and sometimes claim more than the data allow. I trust Bob's conclusions on AA much more than I would trust your prejudices. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CARE From: KKASTEN@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu [Kathy Kasten] Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 08:28:00 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 12:16:45 -0400 Subject: Re: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CARE >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:44:30 -0700 (PDT) >To: 72326.3625@compuserve.com >From: curator <logger@california.com> >Subject: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CAREFULLY. > tO THE iNSIDERS UFOS LIST: and all other lists: > Warning to implantees: > "Implantees" who are considering a removal, should contact ONLY > highly respected and reputable researchers who can guarantee that > the analysis done on the implant is by responsive and responsible labs > that are not gov't agencies in disguise who will "lose" the implant. > I.e., Dr. Mack, Budd Hopkins, Dr. Jacobs, and others. >The Leir/Sims removal has not been reported on as to content, as per the >implantee, Pat Parinello, in two years! Aug l995-Aug l997. [snipped] > Erik Beckjord, listmaster. Wes?? What the hell is this missive from someone named Eric? Individuals who think they are implanted should go to a health care professional to have the microchips removed. Yes, they can request that the microchips be given back to them. (I asked for my gall stones, and they were sitting on the table next to my hospital bed the next morning after the operation. Eventually, I disposed of them, but I had to see the size of the stone for myself.) The advice provided is not creditable, especially if it is invasive surgery into and around the brain or eyes. Implantees should be advised to see their doctor. As it should be obvious from the many academic journal which I forwarded, implantation with microchips has been a surgical process for a long time for many different reasons. Kathy -----------------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 12:18:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon > >From: DRudiak@aol.com > >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:24:03 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again I wrote: > >This Klass Klown act seems to be real common among the Roswell > >debunkers on this group. Brookesmith, Stacey, and Stepkowski also > >leap immediately to mind. These weak attempts at humor are nothing > >but side-show diversions from the great intellectual void at the > >center of their arguments, IMHO. To which Klass Klown Brookesmith replied: > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:46:33 -0400 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> > Subject: Bursting the Balloon--Pflock Again > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments, and the most horrible > grin you can think of, full of green suede teeth (not all of them > his own). > First (hard not to rise to this one): > Nah, Dave, you got it wrong (again). When it comes to Roswell, and in > particular your posts on same, I get so all chuckled up from the > amusement they afford me, I just can't stop the wisecracks from > bubbling up and, being naturally generous, just love to spread 'em > around among you good folks. > It is of course very wicked of people to disagree with "serious > researchers" and still worse to make jokes. (Sure signs of heresy, > membership of the Cover-Up Organization, smelliness, &c.) But not > quite as wicked as wishing to suppress dissent and free discussion, > and not as stupid as thinking that criticism is not vital to greater > understanding. Of anything. But it takes all sorts. > Needless to say the names of these two parties have been forwarded > to Vince Johnson for inscription in the Big Black Book of the New > World Order. When me'n'Vince is out there plottin' on the submarine, > under the North Pole an' all, we call it the Bumper Fun Book of > Cover-Up Joaks, an' we laugh like goddam drunken hyenas. > > Yours &c > Persiflage D. Mountebank > Roswell Fragment Well, what can I say other than "I rest my case!" Or maybe, "Kase Klosed!" Obviously I hit a nerve with my Klass Klown Klosing to have evoked responses from Pflock, Brookesmith, and Stacey. (Must have been all those K's. It's like blood to sharKs. My hats off to John Stepkowski for not taking the bait.) But that's not what my post was really about, was it? It was pointing out the extremely serious flaws in Pflock's Roswell debunking, which include gross misquoting of actual documents and ignoring the contemporary news accounts, which contradict their poorly reasoned debunking arguments. Do any of the above gentlemen have any refutation to any of the many substantive points raised in my two posts? Of Kourse not. Instead they prance out their Kourt Jester schticK. But let's deal with just one important issue. If Marcel had bungled Roswell, as the debunkers contend, and embarrassed the Air Force and himself, then how in hell did he get promoted to an extremely sensitive, responsible top-secret intelligence post a year later? This followed the high praise that both Col. Blanchard and Gen. Ramey lavished on him in their performance reviews after Roswell (all of them grossly misquoted from by debunkers, as I've pointed out, if they bother to mention them at all). And both Blanchard and Ramey definitely knew the details of what transpired at Roswell. Remember? Ramey called him "outstanding," future command officer material based on past performance. Blanchard said he was "highly dependable," "exceptionally well qualified," and "highly recommended" for higher intelligence work. Are these the descriptions of a screw-up? No debunker will touch this issue. They dance all around it, try to pretend it isn't there. It makes shambles of their vicious attacks on Marcel. It reduces many of their silly Roswell scenarios to rubble. It undermines the credibility of their own debunking witnesses, such as Irving Newton, who currently claims Marcel made a fool of himself in front of Ramey and reporters, actually chasing him around Ramey's office in a desperate attempt to get him to change his mind. (Oh, how the debunker's love this little anecdote by Newton!) But you can't keep a good debunker down. They never let FACTS get in their way. Watch them tap dance around the issue with a reprieve of their Klass Klown act. I don't expect any serious, PLAUSIBLE answers to the question. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: 08 Aug 97 11:39:05 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 12:20:49 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 >Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 06:42:14 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, > 1997 >I think that Bob saw a statement made on the "list" that needed a response >to help bring it into perspective. It is my opinion that Bob began his >investigation as an impartial investigator, but like many others has found >himself drawn into it and has become a part of the story. >Since I believe your questions have actually been answered previously by >Shell and others, I think that the "evasions and distortions" you mention >here are matters of opinion. I, for one, don't believe that Bob is a >"shameless PR flack" for anyone. However, I would acknowledge that his >relationship with Ray and others raises the question of impartiality >whenever statements are made by him. Steve, Thanks for putting this in proper perspective. Some people want to shoot the messenger when they don't like the message, but you are obviously not in that camp. That's appreciated. I've yet to have anyone explain just exactly what I would gain if Ray's copyright is upheld. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 8 Thank You From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 05:35:51 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 22:49:57 -0400 Subject: Thank You Dear Errol, I would like to thank all of those on the list who have recently helped me obtain either UFO sightings or contacts in Russia itself. All of this was extremely helpful. It only goes to show how like minded individuals can work together. If anyone has any further information on UFOs in Russian I would still like to hear from them. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: UFOSearch #9 part 4a/4: Science, From: DONFEII@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:34:51 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 08:41:11 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOSearch #9 part 4a/4: Science, In a message dated 97-08-08 11:17:15 EDT, you write: > [It has been brought to my attention that 'Val German' > is, in all probability, aka 'Val Valerian', aka 'John > Grace', formerly associated with John Lear. The following > should be read with that information in mind - ebk] Erol; Val German is NOT Val Valerian. I was (in UFO Magazine) the first to ID John Grace about 7 years ago in my expose (2 part) of Bill Cooper. German is a completely different researcher living (last I heard) in Missouri. Regards; Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 12:38:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 08:34:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:36:51 -0400 (EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon Dave wrote: > >From: DRudiak@aol.com > >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:24:03 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Bursting the Balloon -- Pflock again > >This Klass Klown act seems to be real common among the Roswell=20 > >debunkers on this group. Brookesmith, Stacey, and Stepkowski also=20 > >leap immediately to mind. These weak attempts at humor are nothing=20 > >but side-show diversions from the great intellectual void at the=20 > >center of their arguments, IMHO. > But you can't keep a good debunker down. They never let FACTS get in= their > way. Watch them tap dance around the issue with a reprieve of their Klass > Klown act. I don't expect any serious, PLAUSIBLE answers to the question. =20 > David Rudiak You can't keep a good debunker down. Though the real world has got him in a frown. He's in his own little universe Confronted with a multiverse; He's the trixter in our culture, he's the clown. He knows the mystery is just beneath the surface. He knows anomaly is knocking at the door. He knows that there is gravity,=20 He denies it -- that's depravity, He's the loser when we settle all the scores. There is something to be measured -- it's why they're worried! Like their loss is all entangled with our gains. We're feeling an awakening Something so unfrightening It's the loosening of our shackles as we fight to use new brains. Lehmberg@snowhill.com =20 --=20 Explore the Alien View?=20 =20 http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from=20 afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the=20 fundamentalist's stake for not buying in to the phoney baloney. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies=20 (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind=20 in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not=20 living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented=20 support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." =20 ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Earth lights - Objections From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:16:32 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 08:37:28 -0400 Subject: Earth lights - Objections >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: Earthlights objections >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 03:01:22 -0700 >In reading the discussion about Earthlights, I must admit to >being unconvinced - and not because of being a die-hard ETH proponent(which >I am not), but because of dissatisfaction with what I know about > the hypothesis. Hello Mark, Hello List - Thanks for your views, Mark. As far as your above comment goes, I can't say anything as I do not know what exactly you do or do not know about the EL approach. Make sure to read Fortean Times issue 103, it might help. At least, you'll see we are not just putting forward empty ideas and speculations. And have moved beyond simple anecdotal evidence. >1) Energy requirements: We have cases from Vallee (Confrontations,ISBN >0-345-36501-1, p23-35)....<snip>.... How >could such large energy >outputs be sustained for such periods? Well, I can't comment specifically on the cases you quote - you'd have to go back to source - Vallee et al. What I can do is put the question back to you: how do you suppose the energy outputs of supposed ET craft is sustained? No one seems to bothered about that, citing some magical alien technology we are ignorant of to get round the performance problems posed by supposed ET craft. In other words, the problems are never truly addressed by the ETH gang. So I expect to see you pose these same concerns on this List to them - why should you single out earth lights if you are as neutral as you claim? Also, bear in mind, that science does not yet know how the energy in ball lightning or earthquake lights is sustained and contained in mobile, discrete froms. Nor did scientists (or anyone else) predict vast energy phenomena like sprites. Like it or lump it, Mark, you will just have to accept that we do not yet understand all the workings of nature. By any means. >2) Source and sink: We have objects entering and leaving the >oceans, but these represent a relatively tiny percentage of the >total. A few cases show a UFO landing and then disappearing while >on the ground without an observed departure. Most UFOs come from >the sky and return to the sky. Yet an earthlights hypothesis >would seem to me to require a high statistical frequency of objects >emerging from the ground and returning to the ground to disappear, >a frequency which is not present in the data. All such 'data' are anecdotal. And observations of lightforms emerging from the ground and flying off are in that data (and returning to the ground -- oh, sorry, that would be a 'landing', wouldn't it?). But if you are in a car, say, and a bright object flashes overhead, or hovers around for a while then darts off out of sight, how is the witness to know where the phenomenon originated or finally goes off to? >3) Movement: UFOs exhibit significant manuverability and movement >across extended portions of the sky for extended periods of time. >Why should a plasma demonstrate such movement? One possibility >is to follow a course to ground, as with ball lightning. What >would make earthlights behave differently from BL? You'd have to ask God for these answers. Why are their different types of clouds? Of Lightning? Of stars? Of people? But light phenomena *have* been observed performing aerobatics, and moving back and forth for up to two hours (at Hessdalen, for instance). and photographed doing so. The analysis of those photographs by geophysicists reveal characteristics displayed by laboratory-produced plasmas. What can I tell you? The fact that EL sometimes display characteristics distinct from BL is the reason we have given them a different name! They are seemingly of the same family of phenomena, but do show some individuality,shall we say. Nevertheless, the behaviour of most EL compared to most BL is not dissimilar, according to eyewitness testimony. >BL has been demonstrated fairly well in the great Klass debates >to be insufficient as an explanation for UFOs IMO....<snip> What, then, in your opinion, *are* UFOs? You clearly have something else in mind. How is the something else you have in mind powered? Where does the phenomenon come from? How sure are you that it is real? Why don't you ask questions about whatever it is you seem to think UFOs are? Or do you know all those answers and are just not telling? >3) Dark objects: An energetic plasma is always going to emit >some sort of light. Yet many UFOs are dark in color (Loch Raven >Dam case, for instance). Plasmas are also at least semi-transparent >due to density. Yet close sightings reveal none of the transparency >which might be expected. Ball lightning has also been seen that is black - reports go back centuries. I doubt they are plasmas, but some kind of phenomenon that absorbs photons. The south pole to earth lights north pole, if you see what I mean. As for transparancy, what you say isn't true. As an example, check out Budd Hopkins's *Intruders* and the description of the lightball that haunted Kathy Davis's backyard... And there are many more such close encounter descriptions. But most witnesses are at a distance and see only a light - it is often, usually, in fact - a mere assumption that the thing is solid. In daylight, plasmas give the appearance of being metallic. Apply your same sceptical tone to reports of anything any more solid than these, please. >4) Solidity: Trace cases (such as Trans-en-Province, Socorro, >Quaroble) demonstrate solidity by showing through the depth of >the trace the weight of the object. In these cases, the weights >have been on the order of tons.Why should a plasma have such >a weight? How large would an atmospheric plasma have to be to >attain such weight?...<snip> The Trans-en-Provence case does not convince me as much as it seems to most other ufologists. But that aside, BL has left physical traces (think of the Livingstone case, for instance.) And even lab plasmas can leave physical traces. I can't tell you what the mechanics are - I doubt if plasma physicists could. But it does not necessarily have to be a function of mass. >Other cases demonstrate solidity by physical contact (California, >1974 (see Paul Hill,Unconventional Flying Objects, ISBN 1-57174-027-9) >P38) as in striking the object with a flashlight or bullets... Oh, and how do you know this to be factual? >... and, of course, there are cases where the UFO has been >touched with bare flesh. Interestingly, there have been contact >cases (bare flesh) without the immediate burns and radiation >effects which one would invariably expect from a plasma. BL reportedly behaves in precisely similar contradictory ways. Check the BL literature. >5) Occupants and interiors: Occupants have been seen to be >within >and without UFOs. How can these be consistent with >earthlights? >Hallucination is not an acceptable answer, lacking >specific and >demonstrable proof in realistic settings (outdoors, >at a distance >greater than 150 feet). My dear fellow, **ALL** accounts of occupants and interiors "lack specific and demonstrable proof"! But the Livingstone case, again, is one where a close encounter witness suffered serious mental effects fron what is now accepted as BL. And I would list several more that have found their way into the UFO literature, quite frankly. However, neither I nor any earth lights proponent would argue that all reported CEIVs are due to encounters with a geophysical phenomenon like an earth light. There are a host of triggers for such experiences: downright lying and fraud (the polite term is 'hoaxing' I believe), self-deception due to psychological need, and, probably, genuine experiences of UFO entities and abductions but that do not have to be literally true -- they almost certainly have more to do with lucid dreaming and similar altered states of consciousness. The fact that most abductions occur when a person is entering or waking from a sleep or nap, or is lying quietly on a bed or sitting in a chair, or is driving long distances at night, speaks volumes to anyone not locked into a literalist belief system. The literature is all there on this type of experience - if the will is there to check it out. There is also the question of electrical hypersensivity, being researched by Albert Budden, for instance -- artificial EM fields can trigger some people into altered states. There is a whole range of psychosocial and neurophysiological factors to be explored. Thankfully, some investigators are doing just that. Close encounters with EL are just one small piece of the mosaic, but they nevertheless occasionally occur, IMO. Mark, things seen in the sky and CEIVs are not necessarily the one and same thing at all. >6) Correlation with faults: It is not a question of whether sightings >can correlate with faults (and some earlier posts have indicated >that these correlations are loose in any case), but even if tight >correlations exist,could they be due to chance? Tight correlations do exist, see my work with Paul McCartney in northwest and southwest Wales - similar patterns, in well mapped phenomena and geophysical data, in flaps over half a century apart. Increased incidence towards surface faulting. High level correlation with local significant surface faulting and increased local tectonic activity. If that is chance, then Adamski was telling the truth, the alien autopsy isn't just a pile of crap, and Roswell isn't ETH ufology's sad and tatty Alamo. The actual work involved in careful mapping is monstrous, and the data are rarely accurate enough (phenomena reports) or available (detailed geological information) so few such detailed studies have been done. But other work, and more general correlations, together with the fact that tectonic activity does produce earthquake lights, similarly suggest a tectonic association in some form or other. It may turn out not to be correct, or (more likely) to be only part of a bigger picture, but it is fair, surely, to start making some experimental investigations, isn't it? So far, where the detailed work has been done, the thesis stands up pretty well. > After all, the presence of faults in almost every area of the >earth is well known. Thus one would expect sightings to >happen near faults, whether or not UFOs are earthlights. The >fact that areas like France and the Northeast US have numbers >of sightings though tectonically inactive... <snip> Not true, not true, not true. Both those areas are quite tectonically active at times. So are 'quiet' areas like the British Isles. And when a 5.6 (Richter) tremor hit the northwest Wales (Barmouth) area in the 1980s, over 70 years after the flap we mapped there, lo and behold lights were seen again - some as "big as a car". Come on now. >I have no wish to reignite a debate which has obviously occurred >before, but the above seems compelling to me. Why should earthlights >be considered even a possible explanation of ANY UFOs? For the reasons I have given above, and many more you will find if you take the effort to follow all the literature and ongoing research. Like it or lump it yet again, Mark, psychosocial approaches allied with earth lights or geophyscial approaches handle virtually every aspect of ufology as reported. The difficulty only comes because some people are so convinced of an ET explanation that they cannot even bring themselves to consider any other approach as viable. Also, the earth lights approach is at least as well funded and involves at least as good investigators and 'serious' scientists as ET ufology, and it can boast at least as good anecdotal evidence, and probably better non-anecdotal evidence. And it is getting better all the time. Bring your scepticism to bear on the ET approach, and see how many ET spaceships you actually end up with. Where do they come from? How do they get here? How can they make their reported manoeuvers? What is their energy source? How do they utilise it? Why don't they land on the White House lawn and be done with it? Why are there so many different kinds of craft? How do we know the reports are not false or misperceptions of other phenomena? Why do apparently cast iron cases like Roswell start breaking down, as they all always do? If you were to apply your questions across the board, all ufology, of whatever stripe, would have to stop forthwith, according to your logic. You display the Rutowski Error: demanding explanation of an anomalous phenomenon prior to its study. This is by definition unscientific. (Because no one knew the nature of lightning, should a kite never have been flown? And we all know stones can't come from the sky, don't we?) Science doesn't proceed from answers to phenomena, but the other way around. The principle is simple: Observation, Hypothesis, Experiment, Deduction. Currently, we are at the experiment stage: we have observed, we have made hypotheses (eg tectonic stress) and we are now trying to test these ideas by a new generation of fieldwork, which unfortunately takes a lot of time, a lot of money and a lot of effort by a lot of people. One leading earth lights fieldworker has monitored an earth light at 100 metres on multiple videos and monitoring equipment (unpublished). Other field instrumental indications are that geomagnetic fluctuations may occur coincident with the occurrence of unexplained light phenomena (predicted by Persinger). Scientific analysis of photographic evidence (as at Hessdalen) is revealing hard information. Earth lights hotspot Hessdalen is being 'wired up' with automatic monitoring stations... It can't all happen overnight, alas,due to restrictions of time and funding, but a new wave of investigation is well under way. We're getting there. What did you do today? Paul Devereux
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Earth Lights - Objections From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 08:38:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Earth Lights - Objections >From: "Chris Rutkowski" <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:33:25 CST >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Earth Lights - Objections >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >> Subject: Earthlights objections >> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 03:01:22 -0700 >> In reading the discussion about Earthlights, I must admit to >>being unconvinced... <snip>... Why should earthlights be considered >>even a possible explanation of ANY UFOs? >They shouldn't...<snip> Dear Chris, I thought you would have dried out by now! But you still seem a bit wet. How else to explain such a piece of unadorned prejudice? Anyhow, see my reply to Mark (from the rest of your comments it seems one is to be castigated whether or not one attempts to reply to points made!), and learn all about that Rutowski Error. All best, Paul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:14:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 08:40:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: 08 Aug 97 09:24:03 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:05:22 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >>I've been wondering about the dramatic increase in sighting reports >>worldwide. The key word here is 'increasing'. Why does it have to be a >>show of strength or contempt for our puny defenses? What if we are >>gradually being conditioned by an intelligence so far in advance of our >>own that they are simply attempting to reduce the shock of contact on the >>worlds population? >>John, =========================================================================== Bob writes, >Could it simply be that because of all the attention given to UFOs in >the media recently that more people are looking at the skies, and more >finding the courage to report what they see? Absolutely! That is in fact what I believe we are witnessing, and _not_ the "Signs of the Apocalypse" that some would have us believe it is. >It may be that the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was right when he said that >UFOs are nothing more than the truck drivers of the universe. Very astute and profound observation! Apparently His Holiness did have more on his mind other than screwing Mia Farrow and hobnobbing with rockstars! <G> Peace, love, and flowers Brother Bob. May the 'farce' be with you always! John ;) John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:01:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 09:14:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/8/97 12:43 AM: > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:08:49 -0400 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? > >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:26:46 -0500 (CDT) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Amy Hebert <yelorose@swbell.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? > >>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:21:50 -0500 > >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? > ><snip> > >Ever since I saw that crescent shaped object on June 7th, I have > >found myself struggling to understand the MEANING of this > >sighting. Over and over I wonder, "WHAT was that that I and the > >other witnesses saw? Was it physical or non-physical? Was it > >an object or a hologram? Was it made by humans, > > extraterrestrials, multi-dimensionals, or some phenomenon I > >have yet to imagine? Did I see it because I study UFOs or was > >it a chance sighting? Why MY back yard?" > >I have so many questions and no answers. Over and over I ask, > > "What is the MEANING?!! WHAT IS THE MEANING?!!!" It HAS > >meaning but what is it?!! > Why don't you quit analyzing the thing you saw and just accept > the fact that you saw something. It's true that it's important to accept having seen something, but it is equally important to determine its nature. > You are going to drive yourself crazy if you continue to analyze > it. IF you are meant to know "why" you will find out. > How many people do you think just wish they could have seen > what you saw? Do you think by analyzing if continuously, that > you will make it go away? "Why" remains, IMHO, a premature question, and, in some cases, a not pertinent one. Your points on that below are well taken. > Why does there have to be a reason or purpose for your having > seen it? Is there such a thing to you as just being in the > right place at the right (wrong??) time? > How can there be such a diversity of ALIEN Intervention? If one is > interested in Helping Save Humanity and the Earth, why would they > sit by and and watch other races rape and pillage us? > Something just doesn't add up here. You can't have it both ways. > If they are advanced enought to travel through space/Time/dimension, > they are smart enought to know that there are others here with > intentions opposite of their own. Why would they allow such > to continue? I can't agree with this. IF there are aliens, and IF aliens are behind a UFO phenomenon, attempting to determine their motivations, the level of variety, individuality, freedom, private vs. government control in their society, etc, is not going to be an easy job, and is going to require an incredible amount of very, very carefully documented research moving in very small steps from evidence to conclusion. Frankly, I think too many people are rushing to try to answer "Why?" without taking the first step of answering "What?", and "How?" And the above is just one more shot at it. Intention theories can be made, but they are nothing more than the rankest speculation. After all, "Aliens are alien." > I am moving more and more toward the idea that "most" of the Abduction > phenomena is nothing more than pure hyseria and paranoia! Escapists! > Tired of the day to day oppression by governments, businesses, employers, > spouces, children, etc., etc., etc. > > So, they allow their desire for someone or something to blame it on, > to manufacture "aliens!" By the same token, those of a basic religious > faith, manufacture "Angels" or "good aliens," to help them cope with > these daily oppressive life events. While I have my problems with a number of abduction accounts, and with the methods used to elicit them, and especially with the "contactee" phenomenon as it seems to be reborn today, I remain open on the subject. I just wish that as much effort was being spent on basic research on objectively verifiable experiences (i.e. sightings) as seems to be spent on Roswell, largely subjective experiences such as abductions, etc. > There are no "experts" in UFOLOGY. How can there be EXPERTS in a field > which "Science/Military/Political" establishments refuse to acknowledge? > If it is ever acknowledged by those establishments, then we can start > to accquire data and develop "experts," in "A new field of Science." > Until then, each person, regardless of whom they are, or what they > profess to Know, is just as equal as anyone else. I can't agree that we have to wait for acceptance before we can develop information and theory. In fact, it will be impossible to develop acceptance without information and theory. We do have some experts. There aren't a lot of them, they have widely varying opinions in some areas, but we do have people who know the data, and who are qualified to derive at least some conclusions from it. > To date, whether we like or not; apprecite it or not; agree or not; > UFOLOGY IS "SCIENCE FICTION." Circumstantial Evidence is not EVIDENCE! Mike, please - you should know better. There's a lot more to UFOlogy than "circumstantial evidence". UFOlogy may not be a mature science, and may have a lot of fringe around the edges, but there are good solid cases, with physical and medical effects, multiple witnesses, etc., and there is some good work and theory being created. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 09:18:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:37:27 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >I think Kevin Randle is publishing four books this year alone. >As far as I know, whatever you personally think of them, Jeffrey >has published none, ditto Pflock. Korff has published one. GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- Mucho applause, Dennis, for the entirety of your message! Or would you prefer I denounce you? Your choice--whatever will help. We Klass Klowns gotta hang together, else we shall surely hang separately. (Yes, ol' Ben Franklin was One of Us, too.) One nit, tho': While it is true I've not published a book this year, I have published a book-length monograph on Roswell. This is "Roswell in Perspective," published in 1994 by and still available from the Fund for UFO Research (or autographed/ inscribed direct from Yrs Trly, $25 postpaid, POB 93338, Albuquerque, NM 87199-3338). Based upon almost two years of all-but-full time research on Roswell partially funded by a grant from the Fund (which is not a CIA or MJ-12 front), "RiP" has been praised by Roswell believers and skeptics alike (even Kevin Randle) as an invaluable resource and contribution to the literature. I'm told it's the Fund's second-best-selling publication, behind only Stan Friedman's "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12." (Hmm... Stan and the Air Farce [not a typo] DO have something in common. They both published "final" reports that weren't.) -- Cheers, KURT PETERS
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CARE From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:34:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 09:30:40 -0400 Subject: Re: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CARE >From: KKASTEN@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu [Kathy Kasten] >To: west@sonic.net [Wes Thomas] >Cc: logger@california.com, updates@globalserve.net, >Subject: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CARE >Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 08:28:00 PDT > >>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:44:30 -0700 (PDT) >>To: 72326.3625@compuserve.com >>From: curator <logger@california.com> >>Subject: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CAREFULLY. >> tO THE iNSIDERS UFOS LIST: and all other lists: >> Warning to implantees: >> "Implantees" who are considering a removal, should contact ONLY >> highly respected and reputable researchers who can guarantee that >> the analysis done on the implant is by responsive and responsible labs >> that are not gov't agencies in disguise who will "lose" the implant. >> I.e., Dr. Mack, Budd Hopkins, Dr. Jacobs, and others. >>The Leir/Sims removal has not been reported on as to content, as per the >>implantee, Pat Parinello, in two years! Aug l995-Aug l997. >[snipped] >> Erik Beckjord, listmaster. >Wes?? >What the hell is this missive from someone named Eric? Individuals who think >they are implanted should go to a health care professional to have the >microchips removed. Yes, they can request that the microchips be given back to >them. (I asked for my gall stones, and they were sitting on the table next >to my hospital bed the next morning after the operation. Eventually, I >disposed of them, but I had to see the size of the stone for myself.) >The advice provided is not creditable, especially if it is invasive surgery >into and around the brain or eyes. >Implantees should be advised to see their doctor. As it should be obvious >from the many academic journal which I forwarded, implantation with >microchips has been a surgical process for a long time for many different >reasons. >Kathy >----------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Eric, hi Kathy, hi All, I'm really glad that this one came up. First I want to say that I agree with Kathy but with a couple of exceptions. "Implants" (if that's what they are, terms like 'microchip' are premature unless you know of some analytical data that I am unfamiliar with) should NOT BE REMOVED unless they are very close to the surface or very easily accessible and not near any sensitive areas. i.e.; organs, nerves, brain. That's just common sense. The health, safety and physical well being of the 'candidate' must always be the prime directive, research be damned! What is with this stampede to surgery? We don't know anything about the nature of these things, but enough of them have already been recovered to have gotten (some) answers. Why we haven't is a mystery to me as deep as alien abduction itself. 'Researchers' can wait if it means jeopardizing someone s health just to recover one of these 'things'. My good buddy Pat P is still waiting for Sims & Co. to report on the surgery that they subjected him to! Yeah right, go to a 'researcher'! <HEE-HAW> Which brings me to: People who suspect they are being abducted should _NOT GO TO AN ABDUCTION RESEARCHER_! (Hah, turned a few heads with that one I'm sure!) Tell you why. a. Unless people start going to mental health care professionals and to their family physicians or clinics and reporting TO THEM what's going on, we're never going to get the attention of the mainstream scientific community. When 'abductees' start showing up in _their_ offices with the same frequency that they run to the Macks, Hopkins, and Jacobs, we'll see some real research and papers posted quicker than you can skin a cat. b. Abduction researchers have their minds made up about what's going on! Don't get me wrong, so do many professionals, but we need to break the ice somewhere or we're just stuck. If we don't give them a chance to get to know us and study us a bit we'll never get anywhere. I believe that the aliens and their 'star cars' and the abductions are very real. I have seen them. I'm not so dysfunctional that I cannot trust what my eyes and fellow witnesses show and tell me. But, NO-ONE KNOWS FOR SURE WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON! We simply have to use any means available to get some answers. Abduction researchers are not (the only) source for those answers. WE are doing ourselves a grave injustice and dis-service by going to "abduction researchers" exclusively rather than to a good 'shrink' or a trusted physician. We need to engage as many "trained" individuals as we can. If you really want to be a "pioneer" do what I and many others have done. Walk into the office of an experienced psychologist or psychiatrist, tell them the truth, and demand a complete psychological work up. Now _that_ takes real courage. And, if enough people start doing that, the rest will just take care of itself. Believe me, these people are not all, 'evil, sour, skeptics' waiting to dismiss you and cure you of your 'delusions.' For the most part, our mental health care people are intelligent open minded professionals who can put two and two together if they start getting enough of these cases. It's our own damn fault that it hasn't happened yet! The doctor I went to for an evaluation was very open minded about the material I presented. There have been enough books written, abductee testimony taken, and speculation, to choke a horse. (Several horses!) I want to know what the hell is going on and why! Simple, uncomplicated truth. All we're ever going to get from "Abduction researchers" are more books and more lectures. Besides, you'll want to go to several people who will be (as completely objective as possible) and not have his or her mind already made up about the nature of what is happening to us. If you do, then you're just looking for "reinforcement" and not for truth. -------------------------------- To Mike, and His Most Esteemed Grace - The Duke, and any others who lay our experiences on the doorstep of 'psychological phenomena' I say, it's still way too soon to call it one way or the other. Plus, I resent the implication that I (and others) cannot distinguish between a purely psychological and an actual event. The 'psychological interpretation' does not take into account the very real physical component that is associated with the abductions, it does not consider the ground trace evidence where these 'craft' have landed while carrying out their business, nor does it deal with corroborative witness testimony from individuals not directly associated with the event. i.e.: witnesses to UFO events or sightings in or near the vicinity of a reported abduction. (Example: 'Debby Jordan' case, recounted in 'Intruders' contains _all_ of these elements!) But then that's why I co-operated with the 'Spooky Duke', and the folks at NOVA. I've got nothing to hide, I'm telling the truth. I have lived a very full and self-actualized life. I've tried to maintain a, serious, thoughtful and open minded attitude and approach to all of this. I have always made myself available to those who are doing 'serious' research or exploring relevant and important questions. I have volunteered to take polygraph examinations, physical exams, psychological exams administered by professionals of their choice etc etc etc. Not enough others (abductees who have chosen to report publicly) are doing that. In fact many of them are so busy wrapping the whole experience in beliefs gleaned from others who have not substantiated them in the first place, that few actually take the time to actually 'investigate' the true nature of their own experiences! It's unbelievable. I don't just label everyone who is skeptical, "a debunker" and dismiss and push them away, I embrace intelligent and honest skeptics. *Mostly because they want the same questions answered that I do! If we're ever going to get abduction research anywhere past the stage of 'the web' and 'the bookshelves' we're going to have to engage the professional community head on. It's okay though, they're just folks like us. And, even though I've been burned a couple of times, it's up to us who we choose to contact about our experiences. Don't go running thoughtlessly to the abduction researchers before taking the time to learn of all the possible ramifications and exploring all of the alternatives. I've had to learn all of this from mistakes and experience, do with it what you will. Food for thought and just one mamaluks opinion. John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:30:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 09:31:18 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 >>From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 17:08:06 cst >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Bob Shell: Credible Expert or PR Flack? Dear Vince, >>In either case, Shell's description of his involvement in the AA scam as being limited to being an objective, impartial "photo expert" are absurd.<< Several times I have seen you call the AA footage a scam. Could you clarify whether this is a fact or just your personal opinion? Also, please state what it is based on in either case. Thanks. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:03:46 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 09:48:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:36:51 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >But let's deal with just one important issue. If Marcel had bungled Roswell, >as the debunkers contend, and embarrassed the Air Force and himself, then how >in hell did he get promoted to an extremely sensitive, responsible top-secret >intelligence post a year later? This followed the high praise that both Col. >Blanchard and Gen. Ramey lavished on him in their performance reviews after >Roswell (all of them grossly misquoted from by debunkers, as I've pointed >out, if they bother to mention them at all). And both Blanchard and Ramey >definitely knew the details of what transpired at Roswell. David: Get a grip. Marcel didn't embarrass the Air Force. He neither wrote nor authorized the original press release. Marcel simply reported back to base. Presumably, both Marcel and Cavitt were debriefed by Blanchard. What you should be looking at, then, is Blanchard's performance review. He was the commanding officer of the base and it all happened on his watch. It would have been churlish (and self-serving) of him to lay all the blame at Marcel's feet, given that Marcel had no power or authority to issue press releases. Unless you think otherwise. In other words, it's highly unlikely that Blanchard would have said of Marcel "Here's the fool that made me look like one (assuming that's what happened)," without realizing that his own superior officer would have said the same of him. In other words, "No, Blanchard, you're the fool, because you didn't follow up with a proper investigation before you authorized a press release. You were the officer in charge, not Marcel." For all any of us _know_, this reprimand could have been conveyed over the phone. It's been said that Blanchard was both a hotshot and a protege of Curtis LeMay. So who reviewed Blanchard? And would we necessarily expect to find any mention of the Roswell "embarrassment" in Blanchard's review, either? How was the incident viewed at the time? In a matter of less than 24 hours it was probably over and done with as far as the Army (soon to be Air Force) was concerned. Just as I would not expect to find a statement in Marcel's records to the effect that "this is the idiot that got us into this mess in the first place," neither would I expect to find a statement in either Blanchard's or Ramey's records to the effect of "Good job, guys! Glad you covered this up and got us out of a jam! Your promotion is in the mail." Put bluntly, _there is NO answer_ to your questions that would satisfy you, and no use pretending, on your part, that there is, or ever conceivably could be. You are emotionally committed to Roswell and your view of same, and that is why you collectively refer to anyone who holds a different point of view as "debunkers" and "Klass Klowns." My name doesn't have a "K" in it, nor do I routinely refer to anyone who has a different point of view as a Roswell "promoter," although you sorely tempt me. In the interest of alliteration I'm now considering something along the lines of "Roswell Rooters." >Remember? Ramey called him "outstanding," future command officer material >based on past performance. Blanchard said he was "highly dependable," >"exceptionally well qualified," and "highly recommended" for higher >intelligence work. Are these the descriptions of a screw-up? Yes, but who reviewed Ramey and Blanchard? See the above. >No debunker will touch this issue. They dance all around it, try to pretend >it isn't there. It makes shambles of their vicious attacks on Marcel. It >reduces many of their silly Roswell scenarios to rubble. It undermines the >credibility of their own debunking witnesses, such as Irving Newton, who >currently claims Marcel made a fool of himself in front of Ramey and >reporters, actually chasing him around Ramey's office in a desperate attempt >to get him to change his mind. (Oh, how the debunker's love this little >anecdote by Newton!) >But you can't keep a good debunker down. They never let FACTS get in their >way. Watch them tap dance around the issue with a reprieve of their Klass >Klown act. I don't expect any serious, PLAUSIBLE answers to the question. >David Rudiak And I resent being collectively lumped and referred to as a debunker. Your statement about "FACTS" would be permissable if we knew what those facts were. For example, do you accept the FACT of a second (third or fourth ) crash site -- which Marcel never referenced? Do you accept the FACT of recovered bodies -- which Marcel also never mentions? Do you accept the FACT that Marcel was an expert analyst of extraterretrial materials and therefore an acknowledged authority on same? Do you accept as FACT the claim that some of the Roswell debris and bodies were shipped by slow truck convoy through Fort Riley, Kansas, so that Col. Philip Corso could conveniently view them en route, even when the Army had an entire fleet of planes at its disposal, and everyone previous has always said that the material was flown directly to Wright Field? I could go on. Do you accept as FACT the testimony of Glenn Dennis, Jim Ragsdale, Frankie Rowe and Frank Kaufmann? Do you accept as FACT the several recent Roswell "fragments" that have surfaced via Derrel Sims, the Art Bell Show and Linda Moulton Howe, never mind that none of the samples are the same? Do you support the FACT of the alien autopsy film? Where do your FACTS end, Mr. Rudiak, and honest ambiguity begin? Note that nowhere in the above have I attempted anything remotely resembling your idea of humor. The FACT is that Marcel offered an _opinion_, an estimate, of what he came across. An opinion, or an estimate, is not the same thing as a FACT (your capitalization, incidentally). Marcel could have been right or wrong, and obviously he was one or the other. But his opinion is _not_ a FACT. Dennis (no K) Stacy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 09:54:45 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. >Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 02:43:02 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Reply to Dennis Stacy Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. Ph ilip >Corso > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:27:37 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOs and Professional Associations > >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:45:02 -0400 > >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > >To: UFO Updates Mailing List <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: UFOs and Professional Associations Dennis wrote: >> 1) Corso places Marcel at the crash site where bodies were recovered, >> an incident Marcel himself never mentioned or even hinted at, despite >> being interviewed numerous times before his death. Gary replied: > Corso makes clear that he was not present at Roswell and that he > has heard several stories about the events which took place there. > He also relates that although they may have differed in details this > could be accounted for by their originating from different > individuals. > Dennis you know this from reading the book yet you intentionally > state that "Corso places Marcel at the crash site" when this is not > in fact true. > I will quote the book here The Day After Roswell (TDAR) page 3 > - Corso states, "The stories about the Roswell crash vary from > one another in details. Because I wasn't there, I've had to rely on > reports of others, even within the military itself." > <some Corso text skipped> Hello List, It's taken me too long to get around to reading Corso's book, but now that I've done so, I must say I side with Gary Alevy on this. I couldn't find any statement saying that Jesse Marcel had been at the crash site where the UFO & alien bodies had been found. The closest I find Corso comes to this is on p. 10: "Officers and enlisted men [CIC personnel] alike disembarked from the transport planes and changed into civilian clothes for the investigation into enemy activities on the area [Roswell area]. They joined up with base intelligence officers like Jesse Marcel and Steve Arnold..." He goes on to place Arnold, not Marcel, at the crash site. But if the book had mistakenly placed Marcel there, so what? It would be easy enough for a retired officer in his eighties to make such a mistake, in reading through books by Randle and others, or more likely the book's writer, William Birnes, could easily have made such a mistake. But I don't see that they did. > > 2) Corso has a truck convoy carrying alien bodies to Wright Field > > stop over in Fort Riley, Kansas, where he "conveniently" catches > > a glimpse of one of the bodies. Every other alleged eyewitness > > has always testified that the debris and bodies were flown to > > Wright Field. > You impugn Corso's credibility without being able to offer proof > yourself that he is wrong. Do you know the true number of aliens > at Roswell? You do know that the various accounts differ. Why > would you favor the other alleged eyewitness accounts over > Corso's? I also would not wish to say Corso is wrong here without assessing the likelihood that the route to Wright Field had not been direct. I notice from the book by Randle & Schmitt, _The Truth about..._, p. 12, the gist of what Steve MacKenzie is reported to have told Randle is that "...the crate was shipped to Andrews Army Air Field and then on to Patterson Army Air Field. It left Roswell at two or three in the morning. Other flights were ordered and then diverted, destinations changed in flight, while others had their paper records altered later. MacKenzie had never seen such a concerted effort to create diversions evidently intended to cover the trail just in case anyone ever tried to follow it." So I find it plausible that Corso was correct, and the shipment did actually stop over at Fort Riley, Kansas, as part of the diversionary effort. It might be that the very large crate that Frank Kaufmann remembered as being in the Roswell hangar for awhile that night contained a lot of boxes of debris as well as body boxes, and was shipped out from there as soon as possible to escape any curious eyes. Then perhaps at Fort Riley its contents of smaller crates and boxes were reassigned towards various different locations. > > 3) Corso can't even get the number of alien fingers right. In one > > place he refers to four, in another six. > You are absolutely right Dennis. Also this absolutely shows how > you dissemble by mis-representing material from the book by > means of selective quoting and innuendo. On page 32 Corso says > that the alien he saw at Fort Riley had four fingers. On page 78 > Corso describes how when "reporters were actually given > truthful descriptions of alien encounters, they either fell to the > floor laughing or sold the story to the tabloids, who'd print a > drawing of a large-headed, almond-eyed, six-fingered alien." Gary is correct here, too. On p. 32 Corso clearly states his recollection that the body he saw had 4-fingered hands and no thumb that he could see. If some advertising brochure for the book erroneously said six fingers, shouldn't one be able to discern which of these to consider the more reliable? Actually, I find Corso's eye-witness account to be quite supportive, in an indirect sense, of the cameraman's story that the event leading to the "alien autopsy" film occurred on May 31 or June 1st and near Soccorro, from which we conclude it was a different crash event. So, no wonder the number of fingers wasn't necessarily six per hand at Roswell. Corso corroborates the nurse's report that it was four per hand. Similarly, Corso's description of the alien body indicates the aliens in the Roswell crash were quite different in appearance from those of the Soccoro crash. > > 4) Corso claims that all the other services had their debris > > specimens as well, but that the Army's apparently languished > > in a Pentagon file cabinet for 14 years, gathering dust, until > > the Great Corso arrived on the scene, and unlocked all their > > pent-up secrets. What he's saying here is that some > > of the world's greatest minds (don't forget MJ-12 or the UFO group) > > hadn't been able to accomplish diddley until he showed up and > > solved the problem virtually overnight. What an unrecognized genius! > More baseless insults without substance when in fact the book and > the public record explain otherwise. Corso makes it clear that he > was not the only person to undertake the study of and distribution > of the Army's artifacts. In fact Corso makes the point on page 79 > that it was originally General Twinning that had suggested that the > alien materials be developed in the "foreign technology" > research channel. Gary's right here to squelch Dennis' satire. We don't know how the other military branches handled UFO debris from this and other UFO crashes that came into their possession, or how long it may have languished and under what sorts of security arrangements with them. Hopefully some other courageous retired military persons will come forward with their reports before their deaths, and hopefully the agents of disinformation will be unable to find one who will give forth with a concocted debunking story. > > 5) Corso shamelessly name drops throughout the book; > > "fortunately," virtually everyone he names turns out to be > > seriously deceased, including his superior officer, > > Gen. Arthur Trudeau. The book would have been better > > titled "Waiting for Trudeau -- To Die." > One really has to ask what your agenda is here. What is > shameless name dropping? Do you find it hard to understand that > someone with his background would know a few people. Would > you deny that as an Army Intelligence Colonel stationed in > Washington, working at the Pentagon, working on the National > Security Council, advisor to chairman of the Senate Armed > Services Committee wouldn't know some names worth dropping? I for one am grateful that Corso mentions as many names as he does. Surely if he had withheld most of these names, Dennis would have complained about that! It certainly does give credence to his story, since there were few written memos involved in their transactions for Corso to have tried to save copies of (if any copies were made), as support. But at that time Corso had no intention of spilling the beans, judging from his book, and was not looking ahead thirty years to any 50th-year Roswell anniversary, and so was not squirreling away any evidence. So the names, along with his detailed descriptions of what took place, are much better than no indirect evidence at all. > > 6) Corso makes himself out to be the greatest individual who > > ever lived -- ultimately responsible not only for lasers and the > > integrated circuit, etc., but Star Wars and the dissolution of > > the Soviet Union. Oh, I forgot, he also saved us and the world > > from the evil aliens. Apparently, they had been intending to > > invade for something like the last 50 years, but just never got > > around to it. Now that Corso has singlehandedly turned the > > technological tables on them, I guess it's back to plan B, > > or is that Plan 9 From Outer Space? > More mis-representation on your part. I think you'll have to read > the book. More of the character assasination and innuendo > technique here, one must really wonder why. I do agree here with Dennis that in the book Corso comes out looking like quite a hero. Yet, occasionally, here and there, life does produce a hero. However, Corso could only assume that the pieces of alien debris he slipped out to various industrial scientists working under military contracts actually had their intended effect -- he saw how quickly our technology evolved in the appropriate areas, and so he assumed his Roswell debris was what did the trick. But it could be a false assumption due to coincidental development that would have occurred anyway, or some of it could have been due to other UFO debris similarly doled out by other military agencies who had similar ideas of how to make use of it. I'd guess that Corso was correct in part here, and incorrect in part. It could also be that writer Birnes made Corso out to be more of a hero than was warranted. And it does appear to me that Corso, being in the military, had a biased outlook that made him assume "the aliens" were all evil and were just waiting for the right time to take over the world. Their appearances over military installations could have had other purposes than what Corso assumed. And how could Corso have thought that after development of certain high-intensity laser weapons, in SDI, that they would be any match for UFOs that can wink out of sight, or remain invisible? Yet what is Dennis doing getting after Corso for treating the aliens like evil beings? Surely Dennis doesn't wish anyone to imply he thinks the aliens are benevolent. > > 7) As equally significant as what Corso does say, is what > > he doesn't say. The ultimate insider's insider offers not > > a single shred of new evidence to support any of his claims. > > Virtually everything in his book could have been > > put together with the already existing Roswell literature and > > an active imagination -- either on Corso's part, or that of > > his co-author. > What would you consider a shred of new evidence? You know > that a loyal security abiding individual would not be retaining > classified materials. So it seems to me you are asking for what > you know an insider going public as an individual cannot provide. Gary's right here, also. If Corso had retained some piece of Roswell debris as evidence, for whatever reason, I really wonder if Dennis wouldn't be objecting to his violating a security provision and therefore casting extra doubts on Corso's integrity on that account. > > 8) Nor does what we know about the Thurmond Foreward affair > > enhance the author's credibility. If Corso's version of the > > event is the correct one, he should be able to easily document it. > > If not, it tells us that whatever else > > Corso may be, he is certainly no stranger to deception. > The so called Foreword affair was the non-event of the year. Not > much is really known about it? Except that I might note that none > other than Senator Strom Thurmond did copyright his foreword, > that's right after the title page in case you didn't see it. > Moreover Corso and Birnes have gone on record stating that they > do have letter(s) from Thurmond authorizing the use of the > foreword in the book on Roswell. Besides there is Corso's > discussion on pages 252-253 that Senator Thurmond was made > privy to Corso's "nut" (Roswell )file by General Trudeau and no > one has challenged that contention! More likely the so called > affair, which I would call a tempest in a teapot, really > represents different groups jousting once again over how > information is to be leaked. Interesting remarks, Gary. My guess is that someone else wrote the Foreword for Thurmond. Pocket Books might be guilty of having sent the writer of the Foreword only a brief abridgment of the book, and this person didn't bother to check out an advance copy of the book itself, but was just happy to have the Senator's name in print. I think that the endorsement of Corso's character and integrity by Hal Puthoff carries a good deal of weight. I don't think that Dennis' later response to Gary's response was worth adding in to this discussion. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 BWW Media Alert 970808 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:22:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 09:49:12 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970808 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin's Home Page </A>TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (Permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes, provided attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before e-mailing them something. If you do forward it to someone, please be sure that it is clear you are forwarding it) August 8, 1997 Well, things didn't go quite as expected last week...but when do they ;) ? My appearance on <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</ A> got postponed to this coming Tuesday. Thanks to everyone who tuned in, and, hey, that's showbiz! They were very nice about it, though, and it's the first time that show has bumped me. Also, I didn't get that much done on the website, but it's growing. <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A> I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours. On to the listings! (Remember, times given here are generally Pacific) FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. SOUTH PARK, the new Comedy Central cartoon, has an abduction episode called "Anal Probe" on Wed. at 10:00 PM (Pacific...times given here are generally Pacific). Note: although it is a cartoon, everything I've read on this does =not= recommend it to kids. FX shows the "Away in the Manger" ep of PICKET FENCES on Friday at 1:00 PM...cattle with alien DNA? On VEGA$, Dan doesn't want a psychic's help. 1:00 PM, Monday, Cinemax, THE ADVENTURES OF BUCKAROO BANZAI (a better novel than a movie, but it sure hits a lot of the bases, including a great conspiracy twist figured out by Jeff Goldblum's character). Also on Monday, at 5:55 PM on TMC, THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, one of the most influential (and respected) "flying saucer flix". ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.COM/~ufomus/chat/ <A HREF="http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.CO M/~ufomus/chat/ ">Museum Chat</A> OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. This could be a real treat: author and ghost investigator Hans Holzer (he's also done a book on UFOnauts). This guy must have written something like 100 books. One of the most recent ones is <A HREF="http://www .amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1884822649/bufosweirdworldA/">Ghosts : True Encou nters With the World Beyond</A> . <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com/t alk/"> </A><A HREF="http://www.omnima g.com/talk/">OMNI Prime Time</A> RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</A> Next week's guests not known (except for Michael Lindemann and me...he'll be on at 6:00 PM Wednesday, I'll be on at 8:00 PM on Tuesday) as I write this, but you can check the website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. Archives of earlier shows are also available, so you can hear my previous broadcasts through this site. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? --week of 8/4, miracle for suicidal person; rescue promted by dream --week of 8/11, Abraham Lincoln delivered by midwife; asthma victim saved by mystery person PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com <A HREF="http://www.psifactor.com"> PSI Factor</A> for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 8/4 (#116R): a special one-case episode, THE LIGHT (apparently, an evil double of one of the team is created during a near-death experience). Saturday, August 9 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. Guests not available at press time. 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: THE JOURNEY BEGINS: this is the first ep of this series, and well-worth seeing. ACC sets up what the series is about. 11:30 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, AMAZING AMERICA: includes a segment on the psychics of Cassadaga, Florida Sunday, August 10 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com < A HREF="http://www.artbell.com">Art Bell</A> for stations and program info) Art interviews Budd Hopkins, "Father of the Modern Abduction Movement". Budd's most recent book: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=067 1570315/bufosweirdworldA/">Witnessed : The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge U FO Abductions (paper)</A> LOCAL TELEVISION, SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA, CALIFORNIA, KCSM, 12:00 PM: THINKING ALLOWED: ACTIVATING YOUR INTUITION: YOUR SIXTH SENSE (part 2) (Belleruth Naparstek, author of lots of books, including <A HREF="http://www. amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0062514938/bufosweirdworldA/">Your Sixth Sense : A ctivating Your Psychic Potential</A> talks about psychic development...this is the College of San Mateo channel, may be available on cable) LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. No details available. 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058): The Watchers! (recent UFO activity in Gulf Breeze, Florida. That whole story started with <A HREF="htt p://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0380708701/bufosweirdworldA/">The Gulf Bre eze Sightings</A> by Ed Walters. Walters and Bruce Maccabee have recently come out with <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0380785994/bufo sweirdworldA/">UFOs Are Real : Here's the Proof</A> ); Life Before Life! Dr. David Chamberlain talks about the possibility that kids influence their parents =before= they are born; Ghosts of Chillingham Castle!; Lab of Consciousness! (Alex Heidl participates in a Consciousness Research Lab experiment); 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058): The Watchers! (recent UFO activity in Gulf Breeze, Florida. That whole story started with <A HREF="htt p://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0380708701/bufosweirdworldA/">The Gulf Bre eze Sightings</A> by Ed Walters. Walters and Bruce Maccabee have recently come out with <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0380785994/bufo sweirdworldA/">UFOs Are Real : Here's the Proof</A> ); Life Before Life! Dr. David Chamberlain talks about the possibility that kids influence their parents =before= they are born; Ghosts of Chillingham Castle!; Lab of Consciousness! (Alex Heidl participates in a Consciousness Research Lab experiment); 7:00 PM, BEYOND BELIEF (some stories are made up for the show, some are based on real cases, you're supposed to guess...I think I'm not going to lists topics for this show, it's too confusing) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: INTO THIN AIR (disappearing buildings..."with a bit of a mind flip") 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, EXTREMELY WEIRD (I didn't like it much, but I'm not much of a Jay Thomas fan. Does have a piece on spontaneous human combustion. A recent book on the phenomenon: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/ exec/obidos/ISBN=0871317893/bufosweirdworldA/">Ablaze! : The Mysterious Fires of Spontaneous Human Combustion</A> by Larry Arnold) 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058): The Watchers! (recent UFO activity in Gulf Breeze, Florida. That whole story started with <A HREF="htt p://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0380708701/bufosweirdworldA/">The Gulf Bre eze Sightings</A> by Ed Walters. Walters and Bruce Maccabee have recently come out with <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0380785994/bufo sweirdworldA/">UFOs Are Real : Here's the Proof</A> ); Life Before Life! Dr. David Chamberlain talks about the possibility that kids influence their parents =before= they are born; Ghosts of Chillingham Castle!; Lab of Consciousness! (Alex Heidl participates in a Consciousness Research Lab experiment) Monday, August 11 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse <A HREF="http://www.rysher.com/strangeun iverse/">Strange Universe</A> for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: INTO THIN AIR (disappearing buildings..."with a bit of a mind flip") 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, EXTREMELY WEIRD (I didn't like it much, but I'm not much of a Jay Thomas fan. Does have a piece on spontaneous human combustion. A recent book on the phenomenon: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/ exec/obidos/ISBN=0871317893/bufosweirdworldA/">Ablaze! : The Mysterious Fires of Spontaneous Human Combustion</A> by Larry Arnold) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#40): no details available 10:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, BEYOND BIZARRE: SNAKES, MUMMIES AND ROCKS THAT MOVE (religious snake handlers; the self-moving rocks of Death Valley; modern mummification) Tuesday, August 12 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, MONTEL WILLIAMS: Psychic Sylvia Browne SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 1:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, BEYOND BIZARRE: SNAKES, MUMMIES AND ROCKS THAT MOVE (religious snake handlers; the self-moving rocks of Death Valley; modern mummification) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#41): no details available 10:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, BEYOND BIZARRE, "Bodies Dead and Alive" (cryptozoology...the search for hidden animals, like bigfoot and the Nessie. The classic book, recently reissued: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi dos/ISBN=0710304986/bufosweirdworldA/">On the Track of Unknown Animals</A> by Bernard Heuvelmans; animal myths; and ghost-buster Loyd Auerbach...although his ghost-busting books are not currently available, his most recent one, <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1575660474/bufosweirdworldA/">Min d over Matter</A> , is) Wednesday, August 13 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#42): no details available 9:00 PM, CBS, 48 HOURS: Psychics (among others) comment on a 1992, Missouri disapperance of three people. 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, BEYOND BIZARRE: vampires and pet shrinks Thursday, August 14 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#43): no details available 3:58 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): Majestic-12 (Alleged presidential briefing that talks about a secret group set up to study a recovered flying saucer. The most recent related book by the most prominent proponent: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1569247412/bufoswe irdworldA/">Top Secret/Majic</A> by Stanton Friedman); Sao Paolo haunting (ghosts in the big city); life on Saturn (is this related to THE RINGMAKERS OF SATURN by Dr. Norman Bergrun?...don't know); cloning a mammoth; "psychic clues"; Sphinx; and cattle mutilations 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: EXORCISTS (covers specifically the case on which THE EXORCIST was based. Recommended book on exorcism: <A HREF="http:// www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=006065337X/bufosweirdworldA/">Hostage to the D evil : The Possession and Exorcism of Five Americans</A> by Malachi Martin) 7:58 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): Majestic-12 (Alleged presidential briefing that talks about a secret group set up to study a recovered flying saucer. The most recent related book by the most prominent proponent: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1569247412/bufoswe irdworldA/">Top Secret/Majic</A> by Stanton Friedman); Sao Paolo haunting (ghosts in the big city); life on Saturn (is this related to THE RINGMAKERS OF SATURN by Dr. Norman Bergrun?...don't know); cloning a mammoth; "psychic clues"; Sphinx; and cattle mutilations 10:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: EXORCISTS (covers specifically the case on which THE EXORCIST was based. Recommended book on exorcism: Friday, August 15 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#44): no details available This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Wanted: aerospace background From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 07:59:50 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 10:21:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Wanted: aerospace background Hi List, Maybe someone can me help me out with this. Yesterday I read in the magazine Flight International that a new aircraft development program is underway in the US, called FATE (Future Aircraft Technology Enhancement). The purpose of FATE is to bring together technologies to build an unmanned military aircraft that would serve as a fighter. One of the goals is to increase the 'agility' of the aircraft compared to current fighters with twenty percent. Now where do UFOs come in? I have detailed knowledge of the close encounter between UFOs and Belgian F16's in March 1990. It was recorded on radar tape that one of the unknowns accelerated with 40 Gs. This is clear cut evidence for the ET origin of this vehicle, because terrestrial craft - fighters - have a maximum acceleration capacity of about 10 Gs, but effectively 9 Gs. The main reason for limiting it to 9 Gs has been the safety of the pilot, because a human can undergo 9 Gs for just a few seconds. In discussions with skeptics I have pointed this out and have stated that therefore the unknown above Belgium could not have been terrestrial. One of the counterarguments has been that perhaps it was a terrestrial, but unmanned craft. Now a question I would like to have answered. If we assume that 10 Gs is the maximum acceleration capacity of current fighters and the FATE program will increase the agility of the unmanned fighter with 20 percent, does that mean that the maximum acceleration of the FATE aircraft will be 12 Gs? I hope someone with an aerospace background can answer this. Tia. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: UFOSearch #9 part 4a/4: From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 10:29:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 10:29:56 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOSearch #9 part 4a/4: Don Ecker writes >From: DONFEII@aol.com >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:34:51 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOSearch #9 part 4a/4: Science, Counterintelligence a nd UFOs >> [It has been brought to my attention that 'Val German' >> is, in all probability, aka 'Val Valerian', aka 'John >> Grace', formerly associated with John Lear. The following >> should be read with that information in mind - ebk] >Val German is NOT Val Valerian. I was (in UFO Magazine) >the first to ID John Grace about 7 years ago in my expose >(2 part) of Bill Cooper. German is a completely different >researcher living (last I heard) in Missouri. So I learned when I checked my voice-mail. Val German had called and left me a couple of messages denying my 'probability' preface & laying the blame on the wrong source. I guess _my_ usually 'reliable' source got their 'facts' wrong. (sigh) I called back - call display can, at times, be a boon - there was no answer. I'm sure Val'll get this message too. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Historical BC Photos From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 12:09:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 00:56:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Historical BC Photos > Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 10:35:15 -0700 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver) > Subject: Historical BC Photos > For your UFO viewing pleasure please find attached two photos that have > weathered the years.Can you hear me Phil Klass? Mr. Oliver, For whatever it's worth, and I don't know whether or not the pictures are authentic, I had a black Master Frisbee back in the 80's that looked precisely like the object in those pictures, even more so in the closeup. In analysis, no supporting lines would be found, and it would be shown to be a 3-dimentional object in flight. The problem with the pictures is, you can't tell whether the object is 50 feet across or 12 inches across like my Frisbee. Buck
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Alfred's Odd Ode #166 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 11:14:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:02:03 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #166 Apology to MW #166 (For August 9, 1997) The Alien View is a dual cutting tool. It is keenest on both of its edges. It is used as a torch, a probe at the shadows; It can kill as it trims at your hedges! It cops to observers that watch from above. It withers in its shame. It gathers its fact from both sides of the aisle. And it names the secret names. Here's a fact the watchers watch. They know the story's plain to see. And you won't hear it in the media, But you can look, and look for free. It was a fame of Alabama. Tuskegee takes the blame. Where they gave our brothers syphilis Using science with out shame. And yeah, I heard it in the papers that they're sorry. And Blarny Bill had ready words that he could say. But what about the rest of the sullen sordid story. . .=20 . . .Too terrible to admit in any papers of the day? You're led to believe that a few unlucky blacks Got caught up in the ethics of the moment. But apologies made now are prevaricating dodge. . . A dodge that causes clash, and lathers racial foment. You see, it wasn't paltry few that were ground in cultures need. It wasn't just the dregs of ethnic outcast. It wasn't just a _few_ men that were ravaged by disease. Just try to think a moment -- expand a bit your FORECAST! What about the wives at home -- trusting great white Doctor? What about the girlfriends these men had? What about the babies born to die in twisted misery? What of whole communities in a setup beyond MAD!?! And not a word is uttered in the owned realms of our media. It's a facet of the story -- won't sell soap. It's a portion of the story that you won't be hearing lately. And not hearing you're the patsy -- you're the dope! Living in castles you've built in their air. Not thinking about the foundation. Living your magazines specious ideal Awash in your cultures numbing compilation. We all buy in! It's not us and them! And the watchers observe from their vantage. And as long as it is that cognition is dissonant Then we descend in the mire, we lose our advantage! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Let it up, let it out, let it in - it's no sin! Though you give up kith and kin, and half you've ever been, you'd find you'll have to make amends to one another. Make amends as you contend a new approach where you befriend a surer life you would intend for sis and mother.=20 What if they were _your_ mothers, and sisters? That's what the Watchers cannot understand. . . --=20 Explore the Alien View?=20 =20 http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from=20 afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the=20 fundamentalist's stake for pointing out their error. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies=20 (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind=20 in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not=20 living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented=20 support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." =20 ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: BWW Media Alert 970809: Edge of Reality From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 09:49:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:03:46 -0400 Subject: Re: BWW Media Alert 970809: Edge of Reality Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin's Home Page </A>TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (Permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes, provided attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before e-mailing them something. If you do forward it to someone, please be sure that it is clear you are forwarding it) August 9, 1997 Okay, one of these short supplements. I wanted to mention that an alert correspondent caught me in an inacurracy, which I appreciate! I had said that Bob Guccione was Publisher of HUSTLER: should have been PENTHOUSE. Oh, and I forgot to say that I'll be discussing levitation and flying humans when I'm on <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</A> this Tuesday at 8:00 PM Pacific. Just got the info on EDGE OF REALITY this week, so here goes... Saturday, August 9 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. 5:00 PM, Mark Smith, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.c om/exec/obidos/ISBN=1567186432/bufosweirdworldA/">Auras : See Them in Only 60 Seconds</A> ; 5:30 PM, Bob Peterson, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.co m/exec/obidos/ISBN=1571740570/bufosweirdworldA/">Out of Body Experiences : How to Have Them and What to Expect</A> ; 6:00 PM, Corinne Kenner, a <A HREF="ht tp://www.llewellyn.com">FATE Magazine</A> Editor, will give a psychic test to listeners...winners will get a one-year subscription; 6:45, Jay Schorr, with the ALIEN ABDUCTION VERIFICATION KIT; 7:00 PM, Open Phones with host Ken Dashow; 7:30 PM, Pamela Weintraub, OMNI Magazine Webitor, and author of several books including (with Keith Harary) <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/ex ec/obidos/ISBN=0312033559/bufosweirdworldA/">Have an Out-Of-Body Experience in 30 Days : The Free Flight Program</A> ...sort of continuing the how to/OOBE theme. This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 19:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:04:47 -0400 Subject: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition In a message dated 97-08-07 02:18:10 EDT, you write: > Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 22:17:10 -0400 > From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition > >Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 19:19:47 -0300 > >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 1997 Congressional Hearing Petition In a message dated 97-08-07 02:18:10 EDT, you write: > Stan, > I'll go you one further. If the USAF has gone on public record as > denying the reality of the Roswell crash and the existence of MJ-12, > then why would anyone even need to apply for amnesty. Any so-called > witness or participant should be free to testify by default. If the USAF > makes any move to prosecute or threaten anyone for talking, a lot of > people will be asking why it makes any difference to them. Like you > said: Catch 22. > Buck Buck, Unfortunately, it is not quite that simple. Many people with significant UFO related experience do not wish to testify on moral and patriotic grounds. They want immunity, not simply to protect themselves from damage, but to remove the formal violation of their contractual agreement with their country. Also, personal testimonies will often, isolated from other testimony, not be conclusive leaving each witness vulnerable to an unknown outcome. Further, it will not always be easy to separate UFO related from other non-UFO related material. In the process, the witness is exposed. Lastly, it is one thing for a UFO researcher or activist to suggest that a current or former government or government contract employee "call the government's bluff" as you propose. It is quite another to be the person placing themselves and their families at risk. Why cannot a subset of a particular congressional hearing committee review sub rosa all proffered testimony (under immunity) and elect to suppress or redact any that clearly jeopardizes national security, allowing the remaining testimony to be given in public session? This petition was born within Stargate International founded by Robert and Cecilia Dean. I assisted the Deans in formulating this effort. The goal was to create a simple and direct call to order which the average citizen (UFO savy or not) could readily understand while maintaining the highest moral ground possible. Robert Dean is a patriot - so is Stanton Friedman. It is my hope that Stanton and other researchers will find the basis upon which to support this national attempt to focus the attention of congress once again in a way which does not pose too great a threat to anyone (congressional member or witness) who steps forward. Stephen Bassett Paradigm Research Group
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:58:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:03:46 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >>From: DRudiak@aol.com >>Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:36:51 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon > It's been said that Blanchard was both a hotshot and a protege of >Curtis LeMay. Let's put this one to bed. There is NO evidence that this is true. Who said this and when? Can we document this allegation? Let's have some names and records so that it can be checked. If such does not exist, then let's eliminate it because it is not true. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:03:55 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:10:11 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:06:18 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Col. Corso and Discussions by Stacy & Alevy >Hello List, >It's taken me too long to get around to reading Corso's book, but now that >I've done so, I must say I side with Gary Alevy on this. I couldn't find >any statement saying that Jesse Marcel had been at the crash site where >the UFO & alien bodies had been found. The closest I find Corso comes to >this is on p. 10: "Officers and enlisted men [CIC personnel] alike >disembarked from the transport planes and changed into civilian clothes >for the investigation into enemy activities on the area [Roswell area]. >They joined up with base intelligence officers like Jesse Marcel and Steve >Arnold..." He goes on to place Arnold, not Marcel, at the crash site. Dear Jim: You, sir, are an apologist. You would apologize for Pol Pot if it could be demonstrated that he had had (or just claimed to have had) a UFO encounter at some point in his life. (And, hey, how do we know he didn't?) Your apologies (and an amazing, stunning, mind-boggling appetite for believing absolutely anything positive anyone says about UFOs, no matter how patently far-fetched or ridiculous on the surface), however, are compounded by the fact that apparently you can't even read. Check out the top of page 17 (or did you make it that far?): there's Marcel at the crash site -- with bodies. Now, turn the page, that's right, to page 18, and tell the list what you see here. Not only is Marcel still at the crash site, we even get two paragraphs of quotes from him. >But if the book had mistakenly placed Marcel there, so what? It would be >easy enough for a retired officer in his eighties to make such a mistake, >in reading through books by Randle and others, or more likely the book's >writer, William Birnes, could easily have made such a mistake. But I >don't see that they did. And that's precisly the trouble, Jim. You _don't_ see, not even when it's staring you in the face. If Corso and Birnes were wrong about Marcel, what else might they be wrong about? Or was this their only slip-up in 341 pages? >Gary is correct here, too. On p. 32 Corso clearly states his recollection >that the body he saw had 4-fingered hands and no thumb that he could see. >If some advertising brochure for the book erroneously said six fingers, >shouldn't one be able to discern which of these to consider the more >reliable? Jim, oh, Jim, where do you think a publicist would have gotten the material they excerpted if not from the original manuscript or early material supplied by the authors? It looks as if they changed the first reference to six fingers to four in the book at some point, but then forgot about the other reference to six-fingers which occurs later. Oops! But I'm sure you can apologize for that, too, as you can apologize for any and everything. >Actually, I find Corso's eye-witness account to be quite supportive, in an >indirect sense, of the cameraman's story that the event leading to the >"alien autopsy" film occurred on May 31 or June 1st and near Soccorro, >from which we conclude it was a different crash event. So, no wonder the >number of fingers wasn't necessarily six per hand at Roswell. Corso >corroborates the nurse's report that it was four per hand. Similarly, >Corso's description of the alien body indicates the aliens in the Roswell >crash were quite different in appearance from those of the Soccoro crash. See what I mean? >Gary's right here to squelch Dennis' satire. We don't know how the other >military branches handled UFO debris from this and other UFO crashes that >came into their possession, or how long it may have languished and under >what sorts of security arrangements with them. Hopefully some other >courageous retired military persons will come forward with their reports >before their deaths, and hopefully the agents of disinformation will be >unable to find one who will give forth with a concocted debunking story. Hopefully, Corso and Birnes will prove some of their claims. They could start by making Trudeau's autobiography available, along with the manuscript submitted to the printers, and copies of any correspondence they may have had during the writing of the book, or perhaps any audio or videotapes that Birnes may have made while interviewing Corso. But you can pretty safely bet your collection of Meier photographs that that won't happen. >I do agree here with Dennis that in the book Corso comes out looking like >quite a hero. Yet, occasionally, here and there, life does produce a >hero. And occasionally it produces frauds and charlatans, sometimes ones with otherwise impeccable military credentials. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, you know. >It could also be that writer Birnes made Corso out to be more of a hero >than was warranted. I think at least that aspect of the book was a true collaboration. >Yet what is Dennis doing getting after Corso for treating the aliens like >evil beings? Surely Dennis doesn't wish anyone to imply he thinks the >aliens are benevolent. No, what I want people to realize is that Corso's entire alien invasion scenario is preposterous on its surface and in its reasoning. If they're here and hell-bent on invasion, then why did they hesitate long enough for Corso to save us and the world from them? Not very smart aliens, eh? I'd like to see the performance review of the alien general or admiral in charge of the invasion fleet who blew it by hanging around a good 30 to 40 years, twiddling his four or six fingers, before we put up a defense shield. No match for Corso he! >Gary's right here, also. If Corso had retained some piece of Roswell >debris as evidence, for whatever reason, I really wonder if Dennis >wouldn't be objecting to his violating a security provision and therefore >casting extra doubts on Corso's integrity on that account. No, Gary's not right here, and no, I wouldn't object to Corso violating any security provision. >I don't think that Dennis' later response to Gary's response was worth >adding in to this discussion. > Jim And I share that opinion of your own remarks. Since when were you the list master, anyway? Why don't you go off somewhere in cyberspace -- not, mind, that you haven't -- and start up a Philip Corso Appreciation & Apology Society? You deserve the heroes you get, and I would think, on a normal day, that Meier and Corso would be more than enough for most individuals. You can be the Prez and Gary the Treasurer. Or vice versa. It doesn't matter to me. Ordinarily, I would have responded in a jocular vein, but today is Saturday, my serious day, for which I apologize. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 DISPATCH #63 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 15:03:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:17:51 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #63 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #63 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 8/9/97 Quotes of the Week "And what would the future look like if such groups actually exist and if they do combine and take over? An elitist world state very much along the lines laid down by the Nazis....There would be no place for dissent or independent research. The troublesome artist would be eliminated or absorbed. The elite lives happily ever after, at the top of a control state that makes 1984 seem cozy and nostalgic." --William S. Burroughs, from an essay on the CIA, mind control and totalitarianism. The 83 year old author, agitator and cognitive dissident died of a heart attack August 2 in Lawrence, Kansas. ------ "If we want to move forward, we have to let go of a few things. We want to let go of this notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose. We need all the help we can get. We better treat Microsoft with a little gratitude." --Apple co-founder Steve Jobs at Macworld Expo in Boston, thanking Bill Gates for copying the Mac, calling it Windows and selling it to the business sector that wouldn't buy an Apple computer. ------ "We think Apple makes a huge contribution in the computer industry...and we think it's going to be a lot of fun helping out." --Microsoft Chairman and world's richest man Bill Gates describing the "fun" he'll have "helping out" Apple by completing his not-so-secret dream: a final and definitive monopoly on the computer desktops of the world. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "I am not a coward" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, we're pleased to present an excerpt of more than 100 rants posted to our web message boards by "Jerry." After being instructed to stop spamming our web message boards, "Jerry" came to the only "logical" conclusion he could: the CIA runs ParaScope. (We can neither confirm nor deny this rumor.) Enjoy! "Yes it is true. The CIA have taken controll of parascope. Either they have broke in on their head quarters and seized thier materials or Bill Gates (VADER) and his Master Controll Program have taken controll of the web-addresses. They are playing psycholigy games on me trying to make me think I am crazy. Last night Planes flew over my house with 3 lights in a triangle. The two in the back were white and the one in front was red... SATAN has no power over me. I am not a coward. I love Jehovah and his Son Jesus Christ. Become a Jehovah's Witness before it is two late." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Mark Fuhrman an Avid ParaScope Reader Imagine our surprise here at the ParaScope Central Command Compound when we were watching the syndicated TV show "Strange Universe" this week and caught former LAPD Det. Mark Fuhrman discussing Waco, Ruby Ridge, Roswell and even ghosts. But wait, it gets weirder. In close to a dozen shots, Fuhrman was furtively hovering over a laptop computer with the ParaScope web site pulled up in his AOL browser. Some members have demanded we invite Fuhrman to write a column or host a chat for us. Think we're crazy? We'll be conducting a ParaPoll on just this subject next week, so keep your eyes peeled for that poll question and let us know what you think! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ He Wrote the (Big) Book On Conspiracies ParaScope is thrilled to welcome author Doug Moench to the Grassy Knoll next Wednesday. Moench is a 30 year veteran of the comic book industry and seems to always have a top selling titles in circulation. Moench is an expert in the paranormal and conspiracies, and his "Big Book of Conspiracies" and "Big Books" series for DC Comics continue to be best-sellers. Join is in the Grassy Knoll and ask Doug Moench what you've always wanted to know, but have been afraid to ask. The fun starts Wednesday, August 13th at 7pm ET. Also, join us at our web site every Saturday night at 9pm ET for the latest gossip, chat, rumor, innuendo and fun. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Win a Trip to the X-Files Set! You and a friend could be the lucky winners who get to visit the Vancouver, British Columbia set of the X-Files! ParaScope is teaming with Fox to bring you this amazing offer, including 100 first prize winners who'll take home an X-Files book. AOL members, click the X-Files banner on our front scr Win a 266-Mhz Dell Computer! Now is also your chance to win a brand new 266-Mhz Dell computer with Pentium II MMX processor and all the latest accessories. Just find the "Postal" banner on the ParaScope sites, click on it, and fill out the application to download Postal, the latest and greatest carnage-fest shoot-em-up game to hit the Net. Plus, 100 other lucky winners will get other prizes. So go "Postal" and win a new computer, and have fun in the process! Check the ParaScope front screens now! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Monday, August 11: Conspiracy Newsline If you're not paranoid yet, you need to pay closer attention. What kind of shady backroom deals was Ron Brown engaged in before his death? Does a California marijuana legalization activist stand a chance in the Republican gubernatorial primaries? What was Apple co-founder Steve Jobs thinking when he announced his unholy alliance with the Beast of biblical prophecy, also known as Bill Gates? Is the United Nations robbing American citizens of money, freedom, sovereignty and political self-determination? It's all in the Newsline, updated daily! -------------------------------------- Tuesday, August 12: UFOs Vs. The Peacock Throne: The Story of the Teheran "Dogfight" The vast majority of UFO reports lack any signifcant evidentiary value. But sometimes our nocturnal wanderers are not so easily identified. One of the most impressive UFO cases on record occurred on the night of September 18 and 19, 1976, over Teheran, Iran, where Iranian fighter jets intercepted an unidentified flying object. Did the "Teheran Dogfight" bring the Iranian military face-to-face with extraterrestrials? Or was it actually some sort of covert operation? ------------------------------------- Wednesday, August 13: Did the Government Lie to the Public About UFOs? New Revelations In a CIA-published Study During the heated international imbroglio that was the Cold War, the government lied to the public about hundreds of UFO sightings. Says who? A historian from the U.S. intelligence community, that's who. A newly published article in the CIA journal "Studies In Intelligence" explains how the government misled the public about top secret spy plane flights often confused with alien craft. And that's just one of the revelations in this fascinating and controversial study. Dossier editor Jon Elliston surveys, assesses, and presents the latest, greatest government UFO report. ------------------------------------- Thursday, August 14: Fortean Slips: Meet the Paranormal Presidents! Hail to the Chiefs! Fortean Slips inaugurates an executive edition packed with paranormal presidents and world-leader weirdness! JFK's Blue Hawaii: Dive into the dark conspiracy surrounding a Maui rock formation that looks like Kennedy's head. Dead Commies A-Go-Go: Grab your Red Book and tag along on the rollicking modern-day adventures of the mummified corpses of Lenin and Chairman Mao. Memoirs of a French Horoscope: Learn the startling revelations of Francois Mitterand's astrologer. Clinton Touchy on "Contact": Why doesn't President Bubba like being digitally Gumpized in the big summer blockbuster? Slipsmeister D. Trull has so much presidential weirdness it'll make you want to throw up in the Japanese Prime Minister's lap! ------------------------------------- Friday, August 15: Salute to William S. Burroughs 1914-1997 When William S. Burroughs died recently at age 83, the media could have hardly taken less notice of the passing of one of America's greatest writers and one of the most influential cultural and intellectual figures of the 20th century. The mainstream had little use for Burroughs, a lifelong heroin junky whose writings tore at the very fabric of perceived reality. Burroughs' influence on art, literature and music, though rarely acknowledged outside the fringe, nonetheless has made him a permanent fixture in the psychic landscape of America. ParaScope presents a salute to the man who gave James Joyce a run for his money, including a guide to Burroughs texts available on the Internet. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Lil to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 18:11:53 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:19:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon > From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:00:04 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon > >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:37:27 -0500 (CDT) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon > >I think Kevin Randle is publishing four books this year alone. > >As far as I know, whatever you personally think of them, Jeffrey > >has published none, ditto Pflock. Korff has published one. > GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- Mucho applause, Dennis, for the entirety of your > message! Or would you prefer I denounce you? Your choice--whatever will > help. We Klass Klowns gotta hang together, else we shall surely hang > separately. (Yes, ol' Ben Franklin was One of Us, too.) > One nit, tho': While it is true I've not published a book this year, I have > published a book-length monograph on Roswell. This is "Roswell in > Perspective," published in 1994 by and still available from the Fund for UFO > Research (or autographed/ > inscribed direct from Yrs Trly, $25 postpaid, POB 93338, Albuquerque, NM > 87199-3338). Based upon almost two years of all-but-full time research on > Roswell partially funded by a grant from the Fund (which is not a CIA or > MJ-12 front), "RiP" has been praised by Roswell believers and skeptics alike > (even Kevin Randle) as an invaluable resource and contribution to the > literature. I'm told it's the Fund's second-best-selling publication, behind > only Stan Friedman's "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12." (Hmm... Stan > and the Air Farce [not a typo] DO have something in common. They both > published "final" reports that weren't.) -- Cheers, KURT PETERS List: There is a major difference between my 108 page report and the air force's. Mine was correctly titled "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12" (Autographed copy $14.00 postpaid from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958 and I will throw in a free copy of my 27pg paper "Roswell Incident, USAF, & the NY TIMES"), since in order to collect the last portion of my research grant, I had to publish a final report. I did not say it was the last word as the USAF did.. More importantly my report is loaded with facts, data, documents, even a copy of Phil Klass' Check for $1000. for providing 10 documents done in the same size and style type as the CUTLER TWINING memo.There is also a list of pieces of information not known to be true by any people outside the government when the MJ-12 documents were received, but later determined to be true and invariably ignored by the debunkers. Both AirForce reports are very long on irrelevant material and short on fact. I would like to hereby publicly challenge (take on in a formal debate) Colonel Weaver and Captain McAndrew (if he still is a Captain) about Roswell, their phony mogul and crash dummy explanations, and Majestic 12. I doubt if they have the courage to do so.Weaver, after all, loudly proclaimed that the MJ-12 documents were bogus, but in response to an FOIA request for the backup could only say there was nothing.Disinformation specialists like to dish out lies..they have trouble with facts. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: IMPLANTEES BEWARE From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:49:49 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:22:08 -0400 Subject: Re: IMPLANTEES BEWARE > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:34:34 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CARE > they subjected him to! Yeah right, go to a 'researcher'! <HEE-HAW> > Which brings me to: People who suspect they are being abducted should _NOT > GO TO AN ABDUCTION RESEARCHER_! (Hah, turned a few heads with that one I'm > sure!) Not me, John. I would agree with you. In fact, I stated that view more than a year ago, but my comment was not well received. However, I have a slightly different reason, too. Since abductees have been coming to me for help (about 1988), I have dealt with one attempted suicide, two threatened suicides and numerous cases in which the individuals clearly needed medical and psychiatric attention. One man was certified psychotic and had actually murdered someone because of instructions from an an alien entity. In no uncertain terms, abductees need the care and compassion of clinical professionals, not UFO investigators. I cannot imagine how much damage could be done (to or by anyone) if an abductee with trauma and some kind of psychopathology was to get "counseled" by an ardent UFO buff. (Well, I *can* imagine what would happen, that's the problem.) Most abduction researchers/therapists/counselors simply do not have the clinical expertise and knowledge to assist abductees with their plight. I work with the cooperation of clinicians, and then only under extreme circumstances. We're dealing with *people* here, not just UFO witnesses. I'm very concerned that abductees may not be getting the best care and advice. Of course, the problem is that there are not enough trained professionals who are sympathetic and well-versed in this subject. How this can be resolved, I do not know. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Earth lights - Subjections From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:11:26 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:27:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Earth lights - Subjections > From: DevereuxP@aol.com > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:16:32 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Earth lights - Objections > You display the Rutowski Error: demanding explanation of an anomalous > phenomenon prior to its study. This is by definition unscientific. Actually, I'd say the Rutowski Error is that I even bother trying to explain the problems with EL and TST ... This brings up *two* futher axioms: The Devereaux Error: Constantly spelling Rutkowski wrong in all posts, suggesting some people have never really read what I write with any care. The Devereux Error: Ascribing incorrect assumptions to others. *Never* do I or have I demanded an explanation for ELs or the TST prior to their study. What I ask is something that scientists call "internal consistency" and "verifiability." (I like how you cite what science is, implying that others may not be scientific.) If anything, my questioning of methodology and theoretical details is more scientific. I don't need an explanation of EL theory for it to stand as a theory. But any theory, whether it be relativity or continental drift needs more than just observations and vague citations of others' work. I *would* like to see more discussion about energy requirements, about how ELs could exist in tectonically-inactive areas away from fault line, about why UFOs *aren't* seen constantly in tectonically-active regions, exactly *which* UFO sightings are ELs and which *are not* (!). I'd also like to have a cessation of the assertion that just because someone is critical of ELs and/or the TST, that person is not automatically labelled an "American" nuts-and-bolts flying saucer believer. Sheesh. I've made my viewpoint clear many times here, and some people still don't appear to understand. I've studied actual case reports in detail for many years, and it's not that I don't think ELs are possible explanations for some of them, it's just that going through the cases there are *very, very few* which seem remotely possible as ELs or TST effects. It may be an explanation for *some*, but not many in any case. And I *have* studied the "historical" literature in depth, so I'm aware of the ball lightning references, thank you. Nice try, though. __ Chris What's-His-Name rutkows@ms.umanitoba.ca www.freenet.mb.ca\ufo www.geocities.com\Athens\Delphi\7998
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Of Martian Cats, etc. From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:37:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:53:29 -0400 Subject: Of Martian Cats, etc. OF MARTIAN CATS, PURPLE HIEROGLYPHS, AND TALES TOLD IN WINTER Folklore, Ufology, Culture and Knowledge: A Skeletal Survey Dedicated to John Velez Introduction: The question of the nature of the relationships among=20 ufological events, folklore, and popular culture seems to be stalled,=20 mired in ufology's endemic and perhaps pathological habit of=20 adversarial debate rather than disinterested discussion. This sketch=20 offers a way around the current stalemate and suggests how it may=20 have come about. Preamble: The matter of the folkloric character of the classic=20 abduction experience (AE) and the classic crash/retrieval account=20 (CRA) has long been on my list of things to write about "one day".=20 This is not that piece, but may =AD one day =AD serve as an outline for=20 it. I say this as a warning that I won't be taking the minutiae of=20 (for example) Ed Bullard's arguments to pieces, and neither should=20 the reader expect the copious footnotes and references that a proper=20 treatment will require and generate. The thoughts that follow were=20 crystallized by two threads on UFO UpDates =AD one discussing the idea=20 that popular culture has influenced the AE as reported, the other=20 debating the issue of whether ufology is folkloric in nature. I think that for all practical purposes there is little difference=20 between these two entities. Popular culture =AD books, movies, radio=20 and TV broadcasts, newspaper stories, comic strips, even song and=20 dance =AD draws on folklore on the one hand and contributes to and=20 becomes part of it on the other. Each is a facet of the other when it=20 comes to delineating what is "in the air" in any particular period.=20 This would include the craze for "flying saucers" in the American=20 mind and media in the midsummer of 1947. Even then and even there one could see folklore, as opposed to=20 reported fact, at work: Martin Kottmeyer has pointed out somewhere=20 how strange it is that while Arnold saw crescent-shaped objects, the=20 flood of UFO reports that immediately followed his seminal sighting=20 confirmed not his report but the media characterization of what he=20 saw =AD that is, "flying saucers", disk-shaped objects. Today we can see the whole of the Dark Side conspiracy theory in=20 ufology, largely founded by Paul Bennewitz and Milton William Cooper=20 =AD and still being promulgated and developed by the Internet entity=20 who calls himself "Branton" =AD as a folklore so elaborate in detail=20 and epic in scale as to warrant the epithet "mythic". It is=20 internally self-consistent in its psychopathic way, rationalizes (to=20 its own satisfaction) almost everything in modern ufology and=20 politics, and has absolutely no basis in verifiable fact. In the face=20 of this serpentine rendering of all things alien and untrustworthy,=20 only those unacquainted with the gigantic Chinese-whispering gallery=20 that is the Internet, or irretrievably domiciled in the American=20 Midwest, could seriously propose that ufology is not folkloric. ABDUCTION ACCOUNTS AND POPULAR CULTURE In his presentation to the Abduction Study Conference held in=20 Cambridge, Massachusetts in 1992, Robert Sheaffer argued that Betty=20 Hill's account of her AE was powerfully influenced by the 1953 film=20 "Invaders From Mars" and cited motifs common to each; and he repeated=20 Martin Kottmeyer's suggestion that Barney Hill's perception of aliens=20 with wraparound eyes had its roots in an episode of "The Outer=20 Limits" broadcast a few days before an hypnosis session with Dr=20 Benjamin Simon. There is no proof that the Hills saw either of these=20 productions, and none that they did not. Betty Hill told me in April=20 (1997) that she and Barney didn't watch that kind of TV program.=20 Betty's interests are actually rather more intellectual than one=20 might guess from the ufological literature, and it is as reasonable=20 to believe that her recall is accurate as it is to point out that few=20 of us could say with much certainty what TV programs we did or didn't=20 see 35 years ago.=20 Nonetheless the parallels that Shaeffer, following Kottmeyer,=20 presents between artefacts of popular culture and AE reports are=20 important. Like other skeptics he proposes, with these two examples,=20 a relationship of cause-and-effect between folklore and experience.=20 Although in a grand overview of AE reports I wouldn't exclude that=20 domino effect entirely =AD especially in AE cases reported after 1975 =AD=20 I want to explore a more inclusive hypothesis here. Shaeffer also presented to his 1992 conference audience a 1930 Buck=20 Rogers comic strip that recounted the abduction of a buxom, leggy=20 blonde named Wilma by Martians "evolved from the cat species". He=20 noted that "only one account in Bullard's [1987] catalog has a=20 greater number of correctly-ordered abuction elements" than this=20 admitted fiction. It was, of course, Bullard who recorded the=20 consistency of certain events in AEs and perceived their "correct"=20 narrative order. Shaeffer did *not* suggest that Betty Hill had read=20 or seen this particular comic strip, *pace* formerly unkilled canards=20 to the contrary. Nor did he draw attention to the persistence of the feline motif in=20 AE reports =AD from people far less likely than Betty and Barney Hill=20 to have seen that 1930 comic strip. Under hypnosis Barney, struggling=20 to rationalize the effect of the aliens' eyes upon him, clutched at=20 the idea that they were "a wildcat up a tree". Then he said: "No.=20 ...I know what it is. It's the Cheshire cat in Alice in Wonderland.=20 ...It disappeared too, and only the eyes remained." Actually, only=20 the *smile* of the Cheshire Cat remained in Lewis Carroll's classic,=20 but no matter for now. AE reports from the 1970s to the present refer=20 to the "cat eyes" of aliens; they occur in accounts reported by=20 writers as diverse as Linda Moulton Howe and Nigel Watson. There is=20 also a rumor, which I have yet to see in written and attributable=20 form, that cats have been identified as themselves aliens, or at=20 least spies for aliens. Which may or may not explain why today Betty Hill is caretaker to=20 about 15 moggins, and John Velez has five, and even the Duke of=20 Mendoza concedes castle-room to six of the ungrateful wretches. But=20 perhaps we digress... Nor should we make too much of this commonly- found analogy in pointing out that feline imagery has not dropped out=20 of the alien equation. Another image that abductees call up at least,=20 if not more, frequently in describing their captors is that of the=20 praying mantis. Less specifically, the abductors are likened simply=20 to insects. The cultural connotations of all these images are worth=20 exploring, and *without* any implicit or hidden assumption that this=20 "knowledge" of aliens is borrowed from the cultural background. At this point I should like to emphasize two things. First: in=20 drawing attention to the Buck Rogers abduction story, Robert=20 Shaeffer, apparently without realizing what he had stumbled on,=20 established that there is little or no distinction between the form=20 of an admitted abduction fiction and that of a genuine AE report,=20 even when *no* causal connexion has been (or can be) shown to exist=20 between them. This discovery could usefully be set against Lawson,=20 McCall and DeHerrera's findings with "imaginary" abductees. Second:=20 nothing of what I have said so far, or will say, conflicts with my=20 conviction that many (not all; but possibly most) abductees are=20 honestly, sincerely and truthfully reporting actual experiences =AD=20 especially those who have eschewed exploring their encounters under=20 hypnosis. CRASHED SAUCERS AND FOLKLORE=20 In her 1995 book "UFO Retrievals" Jenny Randles detects what she=20 calls "Roswell features" in many of the cases she reviews, and=20 appears to offer these features as a kind of imprimatur of=20 authenticity. Among them are dwarfish alien bodies (some gray, some=20 brown), the appearance of "hieroglyphs" on wrecked or landed UFOs,=20 and the incredible lightness and strength of the materials of which=20 they are allegedly made. Rather surprisingly, she doesn't draw=20 attention to other "Roswell features" that crop up time and again in=20 her chronicles =AD for example, the death-bed confessions of witnesses=20 to key events, and the episodes in which witnesses just *happen* to=20 be able to sneak a look at a UFO or, better, an alien corpse or two=20 before armed guards catch them at it and hustle them away. =20 The repeated appearance of such episodes should stimulate the=20 phagocytes of skepticism. For it is surely remarkable that such=20 unlikely items as last-hour confessions and snatched inspections of=20 devastating evidence should pop up in so many reports. One is put in=20 mind of nothing so much as urban myths, foaftales and whale tumors,=20 which exhibit the same kind of smoothed-over implausibilities and=20 dramatically satisfying forms. In fact, these recurrent "features"=20 would be better called "motifs". Taken together they can be seen as a=20 narrative template =AD on which are laid the details of a more-or-less=20 common-sense imagining starting from the thought "What if...?". It=20 is hard to avoid the conclusion that crashed-saucer stories are a=20 species of legend, which is what folklorist Jan Harold Brunvand has=20 always said they were.=20 Let's now look at just one of these features or motifs =AD the repeated=20 appearance of "hieroglyphs" (and that word, exactly, is used) in=20 CRAs. The (increasingly inestimable) Nigel Watson has shown that=20 false crashed spaceship stories from the 1870s mention hieroglyphs.=20 They turn up again in the Aurora, Texas, crashed airship tall story=20 of 1897. Then they reappear in Frank Scully's "Behind The Flying=20 Saucers" (1950), which was partly based on tales concocted for fun=20 and profit by con-men Newton and GeBauer about saucers that *soft*- landed in the US Southwest in the late 1940s. In "UFO: The Government=20 Files" (1996) I suggested that many of the numerous Roswell=20 "witnesses" were reconstructing memories of local folklore derived=20 from the stories of "crashed" saucers put about by Newton and=20 GeBauer; since writing that, I've learned that Jim Moseley picked up=20 crashed-saucer rumors of a similar kind when he visited the area in=20 1953. The hieroglyphs reported in the Roswell incident at least had=20 some foundation in reality, in that memories and accounts of them=20 would appear, in some witnesses' cases, to be based on flowery=20 patterns printed on tape used to hold together the Mogul balloon=20 array whose debris, most likely, came to earth on the Foster Ranch in=20 June 1947. Even before the Roswell incident achieved its present=20 notoriety, however, hieroglyphs were mentioned by informants who=20 contributed to Len Stringfield's series of "Status Reports" as well=20 as in other cases proven =AD as well as these things can be proven =AD to=20 be phoney mentioned in Jenny Randles's book (op cit). FICTIONS AND REALITIES Overwhelmingly, the hieroglyph motif appears in CRAs that have been=20 shown to be at worst fraudulent and at best mistaken. Unlike the=20 alien abduction scenario (AAS: which is often markedly different from=20 actual AEs), there isn't a Crash Retrieval Scenario; but there is a=20 CRA "cluster" of scenarios (folk stories) that, like the abduction=20 scenario, have their own natural internal narrative logic. Martin=20 Kottmeyer has proposed that the AAS exhibits an "intuitive ordering=20 principle" =AD in other words, a narrative logic =AD that is distinct=20 from real-life experience. The *exact* parallels between accounts of=20 ritual satanic abuse and the AAS revealed by Gwen L. Dean at the 1992=20 Abduction Study Conference would support the contention that the AAS=20 follows the structure of tales and stories =AD that is, fiction; for,=20 as with the AAS, no material evidence has *ever* been produced to=20 show unequivocally that allegations of ritual satanic abuse have any=20 basis in reality. In this connexion we may also bear in mind=20 Aristotle's dictum-cum-discovery in the Poetics that all fictions=20 essentially conform to one of seven (or is it ten?) basic "plots". Real-life events, even complex ones that in the telling become=20 "stories", are not as neat or as consistent as fictional ones=20 structured by an intuitive ordering principle. If they were, it would=20 (for example) be possible to predict the order of events (a la=20 Bullard) in the battles of Borodino, Sarajevo, Antietam,=20 Passchaendale, Alamein and Ia Drang =AD to name but a few =AD from a=20 structural analysis of the Battle of Hastings; and likewise from any=20 one of these to all of the remainder. The exercise soon collapses=20 under the weight of its own futility. One might, in light of the foregoing, then consider it worth=20 exploring the proposition that the real significance of AEs, the AAS=20 and CRAs is not in their literal, but in their figurative reality.=20 That is to say: their meaning lies more in their dramatic content=20 than in the possibility that they may describe objectively real,=20 three- [mass, space, time] or four- [three of space, one of time]=20 dimensional events. One of the more intriguing corrolaries of this=20 position is this: even claimed AEs that on inspection turn out to be=20 fraudulent or factitious (for instance the product of deliberately or=20 unwittingly coached confabulation under hypnosis) are no less=20 revealing, from the cultural point of view, than the genuine article.=20 John Rimmer made a similar point in a sadly neglected essay, "Facts,=20 Frauds, and Fairytales" in an early issue of MUFOB. At this point a further shake of the sieve is called for. Without it,=20 a persistent confusion (or mistaken, but still hidden, set of=20 assumptions) is likely to persist in the literalist-versus-skeptic=20 debate about the role of folklore in ufology. Whereas in the case of=20 crashed-saucer lore one can deploy the plethora of detected folkloric=20 elements to weigh the balance of judgement =AD decisively, in my view =AD=20 against the likelihood that CRAs describe real events, the equivalent=20 exercise with AAS does *not* dispose of the abduction *experience*=20 and its apparent reality. Similarly, a species of literary-critical=20 analysis of the dramatic content of both the AAS and even AEs may be=20 very fruitful, but it does not explain how the experience itself=20 arises. Nor, I submit, can it. Within those limits, exploring the folkloric nature of alien=20 abductions can hardly be called debunking. The story that abductions=20 spin =AD the way they "speak to our condition" =AD is a separate issue=20 from their reality. To adduce a couple of analogies: no one doubts=20 the reality of the Lincoln County War (c.1882, New Mexico), but the=20 meaning of it =AD its mythic significance =AD will vary according to=20 whether you are an historian, a Hollywood producer or scripwriter, or=20 a film critic, or a cultural analyst (anthropologist) =AD and it will=20 vary as well, most probably, in accordance with the era in which you=20 live as one of those. And, conversely, you can argue =AD as many have =AD=20 over the historical reality and nature of Jesus of Nazareth, but the=20 many meanings and effects of Christianity wouldn't disappear=20 overnight were someone to prove conclusively, tomorrow, that the man=20 himself never really existed. In each of these cases, meaning and=20 significance are separate from questions of the objective reality of=20 the original inspiration. I submit that the same may be said of=20 abductions. So while I am deeply fascinated by both the AAS and AEs as embodying=20 myths for our times, I have no ready explanation for the mechanism of=20 the genuine, 24-karat abduction experience itself. The literalists'=20 ETH-related "justification" is not, in my view, impossible, but it=20 does seem to me that the weight of reason and evidence is against it.=20 Meanwhile, the various psychological explanations proffered by=20 various degrees of skeptics (and even a few believers and debunkers)=20 fit some cases =AD but not all. It may be that we are dealing with a=20 variety of mental and physical phenomena that meet and fructify in=20 some common ground =AD rather as from the soil sprouts an infinite=20 variety of plants. But as yet no one has published a satisfactory,=20 all-embracing, over-arching psychologically-based hypothesis that=20 accounts for the many tendrils of the AE. The ETH-based interpretation of the AE has such a powerful appeal in=20 part because it does promise answers to all the questions that these=20 experiences pose (quite apart from any emotional allure of the ETH=20 itself). Whether or not the ETH delivers on its promises is outside=20 the scope of this sketch. However: although abductees are reported=20 typically to resist the literal reading of their experience ("I was=20 hoping you'd say I was crazy, now I've got to believe it really=20 happened"), it is probably less disturbing to put a materialist=20 construction on the AE than to contemplate the abyss of one's own=20 madness, with all the deracinating distrust of direct experience that=20 implies. The polarities of the skeptic-versus-believer "debate" have=20 left the common-sense middle ground empty =AD bereft of uncontentious=20 observations and demonstrations that very weird things can and do=20 occur in, and to, the consciousness of irreproachably sane people. To=20 suggest that the AE may be a "psychological" phenomenon is=20 emphatically not to impugn the rationality of the experiencer. So I sit in my box in this curiously decorated, somewhat surreal=20 theater, suspended somewhere between the opera being sung so=20 magnificently on stage, and the actual, irremediable, numinous=20 Gotterdamerung. And I wait for a fat lady to sing. =ADfrom "Jottings from the Void" (Volume 42 of the Intellectual Journals of the Duke of Mendoza)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:37:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:57:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon The Duke of Mendoza (aka The Laughing Cavalier) presents his compliments. >From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak] >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:36:51 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon [Polles perikopes] >But let's deal with just one important issue. [more snipperoos] >Remember? Ramey called him "outstanding," future command officer >material based on past performance. Blanchard said he was "highly >dependable," "exceptionally well qualified," and "highly recommended" >for higher intelligence work. Are these the descriptions of a screw-up? >No debunker will touch this issue. They dance all around it, try to >pretend it isn't there. It makes shambles of their vicious attacks >on Marcel. [etc, etc] Struggling hard to keep a straight face: 1. Sorry, but I don't think this *is* an important issue. Indeed I think it is a whopping great red herring (see next item). 2. Marcel Sr could have been the finest officer in all the armed services in all the world in 1947. That doesn't make him truthful or inoculate him against the ravages of a teeming fantasy life in 1978 and thereafter. (By the way, do try shoving a corpse or a wounded man out of the way in the *somewhat* cramped working quarters of a World War II bombardier, instantly learning his esoteric techniques, and completing his task, all in the middle of an aerial battle, and let us all know how you got on.) 3. In the sense defined by Marcello Truzzi and recently rehearsed on this List by Jerry Clark, I don't think I count as a debunker, much as I deplore bunk. 4. But then, as I already did deal with this issue in replying to your earlier rant ("Brookesmith Smears Marcel") I assume you agree with (3), so that's all right then. 5. How ignoring your red herring logically makes a shambles of the rather hefty indications that by 1978 Marcel had become just a trifle ambitious in the imagination division, I don't know, and I suspect this will remain a mystery to me forevermore. (Sigh) Now, Dave, have a double dose of whatever you like best and go back and read the recent post by that nice Mr Easton, who at least has the good taste to refrain from making jokes more than once every two years. Your ref: >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:36:05 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: "The Day Before Roswell" >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> I just can't wait to see how you tango your way around that. On second thoughts, maybe I can. Yours &c Paraquat D. Melanoma Crimson Haddock
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Earth lights - Objections From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:54:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:32:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Earth lights - Objections > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/9/97 8:37 AM: > From: DevereuxP@aol.com > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:16:32 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Earth lights - Objections > >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > >In reading the discussion about Earthlights, I must admit to > >being unconvinced - and not because of being a die-hard ETH proponent(which > >I am not), but because of dissatisfaction with what I know about > > the hypothesis. > Thanks for your views, Mark. As far as your above comment goes, > I can't say anything as I do not know what exactly you do or do > not know about the EL approach. Make sure to read Fortean Times > issue 103, it might help. At least, you'll see we are not just > putting forward empty ideas and speculations. And have moved beyond > simple anecdotal evidence. Thanks for your response. > >1) Energy requirements: We have cases from Vallee (Confrontations,ISBN > >0-345-36501-1, p23-35)....<snip>.... How >could such large energy > >outputs be sustained for such periods? > Well, I can't comment specifically on the cases you quote - you'd > have to go back to source - Vallee et al. I must admit to being surprised. I would think that the first step in a sanity test of earthlights or BL or any other such phenomena as an explanation of UFOs would be finding reports which allow estimation of energy outputs, and using that information to determine if the proposed explanation is worth pursuing. These are well known energy estimates. I would have assumed you would have known of them, and would have incorporated them into your work. If you have not worked with these cases, what cases have you worked with which provide possible energy output estimates, and what estimated energy outputs have you determined from them? > What I can do is put > the question back to you: how do you suppose the energy outputs > of supposed ET craft is sustained? I am not sure why this question should be directed to me. I have simply indicated that such intense energy emissions are among the observations which I believe must be explained by any theory of the phenomenon. Thus, the burden lies on someone proposing an explanation to account for these observations. Again, I must admit to being surprised that you are not prepared to do so. The most basic theoretical problem which seems to me to face EL and BL is accounting for energy. In the case of BL, a present and observed thunderstorm at the exact time of the BL manifestation provides an obvious initial power source; the behavior of BL is being attracted to ground, and in dissipating itself by following those pathways. In the case of EL, I can see no reason to assume its behavior would be different from BL. The only plausible energy output of tectonic systems other than heat and sound would be electrical discharges. However, I refer to this article from the web (http://www.ciw.edu/CIW-news-earthquake.html), which makes no mention of such factors having been considered an important precursor of earthquakes: "CARNEGIE INSTITUTION OF WASHINGTON PRESS RELEASE FOR EMBARGO UNTIL 6:00 PM, THURSDAY EVENING, 4 JULY 1996 EARTHQUAKE PREDICTION MAY BE POSSIBLE, SAY TWO SCIENTISTS "Reporting on the international meeting on earthquake prediction held last March at the University of Tokyo, they note an "encouraging trend toward improved data quality, more rigorous testing for the significance of anomalous signals, and accurate calibration." Especially significant, they write, is increased success in predicting earthquakes from hydrogeochemical precursor signals, such as changes in water levels, artesian well flow, the intervals between eruption of periodic geysers, and concentrations of various gases such as radon and carbon dioxide....In fact, of forty newly proposed precursors considered recently by the International Association of Seismology and Physics of the Earth's Interior subcommission on earthquake prediction, only five were judged as significant, and of those five, two were hydrogeochemical in nature. "Silver and Wakita argue that the San Andreas fault system may be an ideal area to study precursory phenomena, since it is entirely on land and can therefore be easily instrumented... They further suggest that the intensive monitoring of this fault system by hydrogeochemical indicators, as well as by borehole strainmeters (which appear to detect the same precursory signals as the hydrogeochemical phenomena), would greatly improve the chances of detecting the precursory signals upon which earthquake predictions are based." Another article is more to the point (http://128.95.16.3/SEIS/PNSN/INFO_ GENERAL/eq_prediction.html - UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON GEOPHYSICS PROGRAM, SEISMOLOGY LAB SEATTLE, WASHINGTON 98195-1650 BY: Ruth Ludwin): "Earthquake prediction is a popular pastime for psychics and pseudo-scientists, and extravagant claims of past success are common. Predictions claimed as "successes" may rely on a restatement of well-understood long-term geologic earthquake hazards, or be so broad and vague that they are fulfilled by typical background seismic activity. Neither tidal forces nor unusual animal behavior have been useful for predicting earthquakes. If an unscientific prediction is made, scientists can not state that the predicted earthquake will not occur, because an event could possibly occur by chance on the predicted date, though there is no reason to think that the predicted date is more likely than any other day. Scientific earthquake predictions should state where, when, how big, and how probable the predicted event is, and why the prediction is made. The National Earthquake Prediction Evaluation Council reviews such predictions, but no generally useful method of predicting earthquakes has yet been found. " So, if electrical energy output is not manifested prior to an earthquake, what about after an earthquake? At (http://klingon.iupui.edu/~cjeffare/geology/Earthquake_Prediction.2.html#stages - Earthquake Prediction: Science or Educated Guess??, Christopher D. Jeffares, April 25, 1996, Environmental and Urban Geology, Indiana University Purdue University at Indianapolis) we find: "Stage IV is fault rupture, or the earthquake. Eventually, the rocks can no longer resist the strain, and the fault suddenly ruptures producing and earthquake. When the fault ruptures, the lastic energy stored in the rocks is released, partly as heat, and partly as seismic waves. It is these waves that constitute an earthquake." No mention of electrical energy. The same article does, however, discuss electrical effects: "The fourth precursor is the decrease in the electrical resistivity of rocks. As was shown in Figure 4., the electrical resistivity of rocks decreases during stage II and stage III of an earthquake [Bolt, 1988]. Experiments done in the United States, Japan, USSR, and China have shown that the electrical resistance of rocks decreases 10-15% prior to an earthquake [Asada, 1982]. Measurements of the electrical resistivity of rocks decreased prior to earthquakes in the Garm region in the USSR. It has been shown that the electrical resistivity of the rocks decreases before an earthquake. After the earthquake, the electrical resistivity of the rocks started to increase to normal; however, the electrical resistivity of the rocks will decrease again as another earthquake approaches." "What causes the decrease in electrical resistivity of rocks? According to Rikitake [1976], the decrease in electrical resistivity of rocks is caused by the generation of microcracks during stage II of an earthquake. These microcracks creates new paths for electrical conduction [Rikitake, 1976]. As the water returns during stage III, the electrical resistivity of the rocks decrease further because water is a very good conductor of electricity [Meyer, 1977]." But if water is a good conductor of electricity, would not that argue that charge would be dispersed rather than accumulated? It would seem to me that accumulation would be required for EL generation. > No one seems to bothered about > that, citing some magical alien technology we are ignorant of > to get round the performance problems posed by supposed ET craft. > In other words, the problems are never truly addressed by the > ETH gang. So I expect to see you pose these same concerns on this > List to them - why should you single out earth lights if you are > as neutral as you claim? I am more critical of EL than ETH because EL claims that manifestations of an apparently structured, solid, physical, and intelligent nature are in fact generated by self-contained energy sources which roam the countryside after earthquakes. A heavy burden of explaining energy output, sighting duration, closeness, traces, physical contact, intelligent behavior, occupants, etc falls on any "natural" hypothesis - whether EL or HMH (hoax-misperception-hallucination), just because of the nature of the observations they are trying to explain. Yes, ETH must explain these things. And it must explain color transitions, presence and absence of plasmas, nature of occupants, etc. However, ETH takes as an axiom the existence of physically solid objects with mass - machines, and thus it does not need to explain how UFO solidity must be accounted for. It requires a high thrust / weight ratio because of observed UFO performance, and thus to some extent takes as a given a high-output power source within the objects. For instance, the Quarouble case measured impressions indicating a weight of 30 tons. Other measurements of acceleration and velocity when correlated with those measurements allow us to estimate the needed thrust. Those estimates allow for determining whether or not a variety of propulsion systems could account for the observed performance, and eliminations can be performed. Given this, and the observable truth that even humans can create multi MW power systems (and jet engines surely produce at least KW), it is not nearly such a stretch to entertain that UFOs given their size, might support or use such systems. But an EL hypothesis MUST explain how an initial impulse of energy can be constrained so as to form a compact structure, emit KW or MW of energy, and not disspate. BL theories have much less difficulty, since the phenomena they represent last for only short periods and only in close proximity to demonstrated sources of major electrical energy. > Also, bear in mind, that science does not yet know how the energy > in ball lightning or earthquake lights is sustained and contained > in mobile, discrete froms. Nor did scientists (or anyone else) > predict vast energy phenomena like sprites. Like it or lump it, > Mark, you will just have to accept that we do not yet understand > all the workings of nature. By any means. Sprites and the other thunderstorm energetic phenomena were not predicted, but they also were not observable until various enabling technologies were developed. In any event, that thunderstorms emit major electromagnetic disturbances is not a surprise, since they are obviously major sources of EM energy. However, according to the references I have found, no such observations have been made of earthquakes. I am not particularly bothered by the truth that our understanding of nature is incomplete. However, I am convinced that the way to extend that understanding is through the use of science - which means providing testable hypotheses and then testing them, and, if they fail the test, abandoning them. Finding testability in ETH as a whole is extremely difficult. However, components of ETH are testable through observation and correlation. > >2) Source and sink: We have objects entering and leaving the > >oceans, but these represent a relatively tiny percentage of the > >total... > > All such 'data' are anecdotal. So? The problem, which you are not addressing, is that the pattern of EL would be objects leaving from the ground without having been observed to arrive, and entering the ground without ever leaving. This is not the statistical majority, or even a reasonable minority of UFO reports. The _vast_ majority are arriving from the sky and departing into the sky. > And observations of lightforms > emerging from the ground and flying off are in that data (and > returning to the ground -- oh, sorry, that would be a 'landing', > wouldn't it?). But if you are in a car, say, and a bright object > flashes overhead, or hovers around for a while then darts off > out of sight, how is the witness to know where the phenomenon > originated or finally goes off to? If an EL touches the ground, then why doesn't it stay there? Why does it preferentially emerge from the ground and reenter the ground when no one is around? Accepting the part of the data that is convenient for your hypothesis and denying the rest is not scientific. ETH, for instance, has no problem with this part of the data, since it posits that UFOs come from space, and thus can be expected to arrive from and depart into the sky. > >3) Movement: UFOs exhibit significant manuverability and movement > >across extended portions of the sky for extended periods of time. > >Why should a plasma demonstrate such movement? One possibility > >is to follow a course to ground, as with ball lightning. What > >would make earthlights behave differently from BL? > > You'd have to ask God for these answers. Why are their different > types of clouds? Of Lightning? Of stars? Of people? But light > phenomena *have* been observed performing aerobatics, and moving > back and forth for up to two hours (at Hessdalen, for instance). > and photographed doing so. The analysis of those photographs by > geophysicists reveal characteristics displayed by laboratory-produced > plasmas. What can I tell you? I don't know - it's your hypothesis. You are supposed to be able to account for the observed behaviour with features of your hypothesis. If all it comes down to is - "I don't know" then I can't see how EL is superior to any other hypothesis. I note that "there was (and still is) no satisfactory way of explaining how earth lights could travel freely in space and maintain specific, defined shapes." ( http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1997/feb/m10-004.shtml ) There are different types of clouds due to differing concentrations of moisture and temperature gradients in the atmosphere. Degrees of convection and turbulence account for the characteristic shapes. Extensive study of the formation of lightning flux channels has been performed, and some understanding of that mechanism has been attained. The shapes appear to be both chaotic and fractal. There are different types of stars due to composition, density, mass, and opacity. There are different types of people due to their differing genetics. Yes, light phenomena do exist. They do exhibit unusual performance. When unidentified, we call them UFOs. Most researchers into UFOs, whether holding ETH or not, have no problem even with the idea that UFOs generate plasmas. This is not a distinguishing characteristic which must make us find the EL hypothesis to be the best explanation. ETH proponents hold that UFO plasmas relate either to propulsion or to generating stream flow across the UFO body. Fortean researchers hold that UFO plasmas are manifestations of an intelligent energy source, and that as the object materializes, the luminosity of the plasmas undergoes certain specific energy changes, eventually resulting in an opaque, material object. > The fact that EL sometimes display characteristics distinct from > BL is the reason we have given them a different name! They are > seemingly of the same family of phenomena, but do show some > individuality,shall we say. Nevertheless, the behaviour of most > EL compared to most BL is not dissimilar, according to > eyewitness testimony. Then why do BL events not demonstrate physical traces demonstrating weight, the appearance of occupants, the experience of abduction, and why do they not manifest the characteristic geometry and luminosity patterns of UFOs, if EL are related to BL, and EL explains UFOs? > >BL has been demonstrated fairly well in the great Klass debates > >to be insufficient as an explanation for UFOs IMO....<snip> > > What, then, in your opinion, *are* UFOs? You clearly have something > else in mind....Or do you know all those answers and are > just not telling? I'm not sure how best to respond to this. I avoid specific theories of UFO origin and intent. In my research, I proceed along the lines of first accepting the data which shows the UFO to be an objectively existent, physically solid object which has mass, emits energy, is capable of manuvering in the atmosphere at performance levels far exceeding any known aircraft, spacecraft, or natural phenomenon. I then look for patterns in the observation, such as repeating scenarios, geometries, or features, and to try to find productive ways to elicit additional information on those patterns or on features which might generate additional patterns. I do not attempt currently to account for the origin or intent of the UFO. Personally, I think it is too early for that. I definitely don't know all of the answers. I don't even know a lot of the questions I want to ask. But I'm learning. > >3) Dark objects: An energetic plasma is always going to emit > >some sort of light. Yet many UFOs are dark in color...Plasmas are also at least semi-transparent > >due to density. Yet close sightings reveal none of the transparency > >which might be expected. > > Ball lightning has also been seen that is black - reports go back > centuries. Could you provide references for these (summaries also, in case the sources are unavailable)? In my BL research, I have not yet come across any such report. > I doubt they are plasmas, but some kind of phenomenon > that absorbs photons. The south pole to earth lights north pole, if > you see what I mean. Such a phenomenon would seem to me to be normal matter. > As for transparancy, what you say isn't true. As an example, check > out Budd Hopkins's *Intruders* and the description of the lightball > that haunted Kathy Davis's backyard... I wish you had provided a page for reference. Intruders is 318 pages long. I can find no reference to this in the chronology, and it does escape my memory. However, I am familiar with a number of light ball cases. I am not sure how this proves that plasmas can be non transparent. None of those light balls follow paths to ground. > And there are many more > such close encounter descriptions. But most witnesses are at a > distance and see only a light - it is often, usually, in fact > - a mere assumption that the thing is solid. Not in the cases which interest me. Allow me to cite a brief selection: 7/19/52; Customs Inspector Sr. Domingo Troncoso, Puerto Maldonado , Peru, 4:30 PM; Photograph of an elliptical / cigar shaped object emitting a trail which may have left an angel hair residue; possible power interference, speed calculation 10/21/54; Mrs. Jennie Roestenberg and 2 children, Ranton, Staffordshire, England; 4:45PM; Mother and two children observed a disk with a front window, two occupants, at close range. 12/10/54; Flores and Gomez, Trans-Andean Highway, Venezuela; evening; Two teenagers are attacked by 4 �little men� from a hovering disk. Shotgun broken in two parts when used as a club on occupants who were trying to abduct Gomez 4/14/57; Multiple witness, Vins, Midi, France, 3PM; Metallic cone, 3-5� in height, vibrated road signs 7/13/59; Mrs. Frederick Moreland, Blenheim, NZ, 5:30 AM; Swollen hands and brown patches on face beginning a few days after close encounter with a disk with transparent dome (2 occupants) and rotating orange rim jets 10/12/63; Eugenio Douglas, between Monte Maiz and Isla Verde, Argentina, evening; Burns on face and hands after encounter with giant occupants, being struck with red ray and pursued by red light 6/2/64; Mrs Frank Smith and grandson, Hobbs, NM, 4:00 PM; Second degree burns and face swelling after close approach by top-shaped object trailing smoke 3/15/65; James Flynn, Everglades, FL, 1AM ; Unconsciousness, burns, vision and hearing impairment after strike from light beam during close approach to hovering object 10/21/63; Moreno, family, and employee; Trancas, Argentina; evening / early morning; Family deterred from emerging from their house by five objects which directed beams at the house which raised the interior temperature. One witness burned. and, of course, there are more... (the prevalence of injury cases is due to my paper on UFO witness eye and skin irritation being the initial foundation for my catalog). > In daylight, plasmas give the appearance of being metallic. Please indicate a reference for this comment. To the best of my knowledge, free plasmas have not been observed in daylight, other than BL, and BL does not appear metallic. > Apply your same sceptical tone to reports of anything any more > solid than these, please. What the heck does that mean? > ... And even > lab plasmas can leave physical traces. I can't tell you what the > mechanics are - I doubt if plasma physicists could. But it does > not necessarily have to be a function of mass. So weight traces can be generated by a non-solid object? Can you give me some references I can check? > >Other cases demonstrate solidity by physical contact (California, > >1974 (see Paul Hill,Unconventional Flying Objects, ISBN 1-57174-027-9) > >P38) as in striking the object with a flashlight or bullets... > > Oh, and how do you know this to be factual? How do you know it is not? No, that's no more fair than the above argumentation. I have seen a number of such reports. Therefore, I consider them part of the data set to be explained. Don't you? By what justification can they be ignored? > >... and, of course, there are cases where the UFO has been > >touched with bare flesh. Interestingly, there have been contact > >cases (bare flesh) without the immediate burns and radiation > >effects which one would invariably expect from a plasma. > > BL reportedly behaves in precisely similar contradictory ways. > Check the BL literature. I have never seen a BL case where contact was not accompanied by shock. Can you cite a few here for us? > >5) Occupants and interiors: ... > > My dear fellow, **ALL** accounts of occupants and interiors "lack > specific and demonstrable proof"! But the Livingstone case, again, > is one where a close encounter witness suffered serious mental > effects fron what is now accepted as BL. And I would list several > more that have found their way into the UFO literature, quite > frankly. Again, the occupant cases are part of the data set to be explained. It is my understanding that one of the features of the EL hypothesis is that it predicts occupant and abduction scenarios to be caused by electrical stimulation of the brain, but that the closest thing to experimental proof of this required direct contact of electrodes to skull. Since UFO witnesses are seeing occupants at distances of hundreds of feet in some cases, EL must explain this hallucination by the action of fields at such distances. It must also explain why broadcast stations, computer monitors, etc. do not elicit such experiences, even when very close to an individual. FYI, occupant cases have left physical traces, such as footprints. Please cite said BL cases from the UFO literature. I admit to not being familiar with the Livingstone case. Please provide a brief summary if you can. Does it show the witness at the time of exposure hallucinating occupants, apparently solid UFO-like objects, etc? Are there other cases which do? How many? > However, neither I nor any earth lights proponent would argue > that all reported CEIVs are due to encounters with a geophysical > phenomenon like an earth light. There are a host of triggers for > such experiences: downright lying and fraud (the polite term is > 'hoaxing' I believe), self-deception due to psychological need... > Mark, things seen in the sky and CEIVs are not necessarily the > one and same thing at all. I am personally not terribly happy with the current state of abduction research. However, there are numerous CE-III cases which appear to border on CE-IV. These do not occur when the witness is "entering or waking from a sleep or nap, or is lying quietly on a bed or sitting in a chair, or is driving long distances at night." I would consider such to be important for your theory to explain. Chalking them up to hoax or hallucination is not really acceptable, since no major study of UFOs has ever found more than a few percent of reports to be either hoax or hallucination. > >6) Correlation with faults: ... > > Tight correlations do exist, see my work with Paul McCartney in > northwest and southwest Wales - similar patterns, in well mapped > phenomena and geophysical data, in flaps over half a century apart. How tightly are the dates, times, etc. correlated? How geographically close are the sightings to the faults? How many faults per square mile exist? > ...If that is chance, then Adamski was telling the truth, > the alien autopsy isn't just a pile of crap, and Roswell isn't > ETH ufology's sad and tatty Alamo. I am not clear on how these clearly demonstrate an association between faults and UFO sightings is not due to chance. Let me put this more clearly. Have you plotted random points on a map and then seen if the correlation between those points and faults is as good as that produced by your work? As you know, correlation is not causation. > The actual work involved in careful mapping is monstrous... Perhaps you should have a look at Vallee's study of orthoteny. He was able to show that orthotenic networks might be able to be derived from a random distribution of reports. In the case of EL, given that faults are widely distributed, what is the probability of chance association of UFO sightings with fault locations? > > After all, the presence of faults in almost every area of the > >earth is well known. Thus one would expect sightings to > >happen near faults, whether or not UFOs are earthlights. The > >fact that areas like France and the Northeast US have numbers > >of sightings though tectonically inactive... <snip> > > Not true, not true, not true. Both those areas are quite tectonically > active at times. When is the Northeast US tectonically active? What is the minimum strength for an EL earthquake? > Come on now. What the heck does that mean? > ...Why should earthlights > >be considered even a possible explanation of ANY UFOs? > > For the reasons I have given above, and many more you will find > if you take the effort to follow all the literature and ongoing > research. Like it or lump it yet again, Mark, psychosocial approaches > allied with earth lights or geophyscial approaches handle virtually > every aspect of ufology as reported. No, they don't handle the energy problem, the behavior problem, the mass trace problem, the structured solidity problem, or the occupant problem, among others. > The difficulty only comes > because some people are so convinced of an ET explanation that > they cannot even bring themselves to consider any other approach > as viable. I am not convinced of any explanation, at this point. But EL has a long way to go in terms of explaining the data. It seems confirmed from this conversation that EL assumes that any part of the data that doesn't look like free plasmas will be rejected as hoax or hallucination. That does not seem scientific. There is a lot of data to be explained. If we ignore all of the data except lights in the sky, EL might work, except that it provides no physical mechanism for dealing with the estimated energy of the observations it is trying to account for, it does not explain why EL behaves so differently from BL (UFO trajectories, manuvers, inspection behavior, measured speeds on radar, etc.) > Bring your scepticism to bear on the ET approach, and see how > many ET spaceships you actually end up with. Where do they come > from? How do they get here? How can they make their reported manoeuvers? > What is their energy source? How do they utilise it? Why don't > they land on the White House lawn and be done with it? Why are > there so many different kinds of craft? How do we know the reports > are not false or misperceptions of other phenomena? Why do apparently > cast iron cases like Roswell start breaking down, as they all > always do? These all beg the question, which is the one all serious researchers need to be working on - what are the characteristics of the phenomenon we are trying to explain? Your questions could be framed scientifically: How do we determine where UFOs come from? How can we find out how they get here from wherever they come from? What manuevers do they perform and what can account for them? How can we distinguish the validity of proposed mechanisms? What possible energy sources can account for the observed and estimated thrust / weight ratios of UFOs? How can we distinguish the validity of proposed mechanisms? How can we find out why UFOs do not pursue contact with the organized bodies of the nations of earth? Is there a reason to a priori reject UFO data because of a variety of reported configurations? If not, how can we determine the purpose of such different configurations? As for the question "How do we know the reports are not false or misperceptions of other phenomena?", I would contend that this has been answered by every study of the phenomenon, no matter how skeptical. Blue Book has 5-10% unknowns. Condon has 10-30% unknowns. The unknowns are the subject of study, not the identified. As for the question on Roswell, that is certainly a straw man. While there might be some who claim Roswell to have been a cast-iron case, I certainly am not among them. And cases do not always break down. See my earlier list for some cases which have not broken down. > You display the Rutowski Error: demanding explanation of an anomalous > phenomenon prior to its study. No, but it seems that EL provides an explanation for an anomalous phenomenon without being willing to deal with data that does not fit its preconditions. > Science doesn't proceed from answers to phenomena, > but the other way around. The principle is simple: Observation, > Hypothesis, Experiment, Deduction. I am familiar with it. > ...One leading earth > lights fieldworker has monitored an earth light at 100 metres > on multiple videos and monitoring equipment (unpublished). In what way was it determined that this was an EL rather than a UFO? > Other field instrumental indications are that geomagnetic fluctuations > may occur coincident with the occurrence of unexplained light > phenomena (predicted by Persinger). This is not exactly news to people who are familiar with UFO data. Please refer to the Project-1947 EM effects catalog http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/47emecat.htm for cases of such dating from 1928 on. Smith, who was responsible for the Canadian UFO effort, made this same observation. Such a prediction does not distinguish the EL UFO from the observed UFO or even from the ET or Fortean UFO, all of which produce EM effects. > Scientific analysis of photographic > evidence (as at Hessdalen) is revealing hard information. So does analysis of the Hart photos, the Lucci photos, and many others. > What did you do today? I added cases to the Project-1947 EM effects catalog, obtained cases for my correlated case catalog from the literature, and recently completed work on a new classification system for UFO behavior. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/topic/earth/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Wanted: aerospace background From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 02:06:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:35:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Wanted: aerospace background > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/9/97 10:21 AM: > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 07:59:50 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Wanted: aerospace background > I have detailed knowledge of the close encounter between UFOs > and Belgian F16's in March 1990. It was recorded on radar tape that > one of the unknowns accelerated with 40 Gs. This is clear cut > evidence for the ET origin of this vehicle, because terrestrial > craft - fighters - have a maximum acceleration capacity of about > 10 Gs, but effectively 9 Gs. > The main reason for limiting it to 9 Gs has been the safety of > the pilot, because a human can undergo 9 Gs for just > a few seconds. > If we assume that 10 Gs is the maximum acceleration capacity > of current fighters and the FATE program will increase the agility > of the unmanned fighter with 20 percent, does that mean that > the maximum acceleration of the FATE aircraft will be 12 Gs? I would think that there are also other reasons for limiting acceleration, including the amount of energy available for acceleration. Jets are already sucking fuel like no tomorrow. More fuel = more mass = less acceleration. Aerodynamic heating would also cause an effect if such accelerations were sustained, leading to phenomena like the "heat-lengthening" of the YF-12A. However, materials and equipment which can survive extremely large Gs are part of missile systems already deployed. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: UFO sighting, NYC From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 04:18:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:46:07 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting, NYC >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 22:13:41 -0400 >From: "skyeking@aye.net" <skyeking@aye.net> [Jerry Washington] >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO sighting, NYC >> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:33:19 -0500 >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> Subject: UFO sighting, NYC >> It's getting harder and harder for me to post reports of daylight UFO >> activity over NY. I am not 'Ed Walters' nor do I 'wanna be!' >> ...Unless I can get, "a piece of one" I will not be (publicly) posting >> sighting reports in the future. I will notify CUFOS and the National >> Reporting Center anonymously. I don't want, nor do I need, the kind of >> attention that follows in the wake of frequent UFO sightings reported by >> a single individual. It really is a shame that it's like that. >> John Velez, Alien Spawn >Dear Spawn: >Though I'm not quite in your position, I have taken flack for holding >firm to my belief in the absolute reality of my own sightings (and one >very close encounter) which occurred over a three year period (1971-73) >in my hometown of Oak Ridge, TN. ("Atomic City, USA"). Some folks just >can't handle the truth or they're wallowing in a depth of denial that >borders on the pathological. It's tough for them to accept the fact that >humankind ain't necessarily numero uno on the galatic foodchain. And >while I may empathize with their distress, their opinions are >irrelevant, John, and do absolutely nothing to alter the "big picture." >However, you're endeavors HAVE been useful in helping the less myopic of >us out here to bring that vision into a sharper focus. That's why I >would suggest you reconsider you're decision to bailout. Amidst the hue >and cry, real data IS being gathered; the truth is gradually being >uncovered, and let's face it: at this stage of the "invasion," that >awareness may be our only defense. > Jerry Washington > SD Kentucky/MUFON =========================================================================== Hi Jerry, It wasn't a 'bailout!' I don't mind reporting, it's just that I don't want to have to deal with all of the flack that follows frequent UFO reports from single individuals, do you know what I mean? I figured as long as I'm reporting to "someone" and attempting to get my images analyzed I'm doing the right/responsible thing. I've gotten a few other e-mails asking me to keep folks informed if there are any new sightings. Rather than have to start a 'list' of my own I'll just continue posting here. However, I will only respond to serious inquiries about the sightings, I don't want to get into speculative debates about 'what' they are. Until I can get the video analyzed I don't know what it is. And even though the last two occasions I recorded these things they turned out to be 'genuine unknowns' (not conventional aircraft or balloons as per Saino, MUFON analyst) we still can't say 'where' they're from or 'who' is piloting those things, if anyone. I can tell you that what I've seen doesn't look or fly like anything I've ever seen in my 48 years. (Other than 'other UFO's!) <G> Sure I'll continue to post, it's no skin off my nose. My nuts are already on the line because I'm "out" as an abductee, making a few sighting reports after publicly disrobing like that is no biggie. It's just that I enjoy 'reading' about other peoples sightings, I'm just not too crazy about being the guy making them. As I said earlier I'm really trying to do the right thing by reporting regardless of consequences. I just wish they were flying over _your_ house (anybody elses) and not mine! <VBG> My wife has been with me for three of these sightings and it wreaks havoc with her panty shield everytime. I don't mind them, in fact I get a rush everytime I see one, but I don't like seeing my wife upset that way. It took her time to recuperate after everyone of those events, (to regain her composure) and she's edgy and upset (unsettled) for days afterwards. She's not as accepting of these things as the old man is, it really rattles her cage to see these (very distict) 'unknowns' in broad daylight like that. I would imagine that to anyone but me and a handful of others her reaction is completely normal. *Important note: The sightings that I have had, have _always_ involved the 'object' crossing the (very busy) landing pattern over Jamaica Bay for Kennedy International. I don't know about you, but sh*t like that gives me pause to worry about the safety of incoming and outgoing commercial flights. They have had problems in Mexico City with these suckers at their airport for several years. There is one case, (as per Jaime Maussan) where a commercial airliner 'bumped' one of these unknowns in mid-air! It's not so much collision which is a danger as much as the effect that the unknowns have on the aircrafts electronic systems. Close proximity to UFO's causes the onboard computer systems to go bonkers and give false readings. ie; airspeed, altitude etc. During takeoff or landing something like that could be disastrous. According to testimony given by two members of the Mexico City Airport tower personel to Jaime Maussan in 1995 the pilots are very concerned about this 'effect.' John Velez, John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Aug 97 08:19:07 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 10:14:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:37:50 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] >Subject: Of Martian Cats, &c >To: UFO UpDates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >There is >also a rumor, which I have yet to see in written and attributable >form, that cats have been identified as themselves aliens, or at >least spies for aliens. Cats have long been associated with witches, as familiars and as incarnate forms of personal demons. So have owls (the scientific name for owl means witch.) In both cases it is the eyes that have caused this association. They are the eyes of nocturnal hunters. Signed for The Emir of Carcosa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Of Martian Cats, &c From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:56:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:12:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, &c >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:37:50 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] >Subject: Of Martian Cats, &c >To: UFO UpDates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Peter writes, >OF MARTIAN CATS, >PURPLE HIEROGLYPHS, >AND TALES TOLD IN WINTER >Folklore, Ufology, Culture and Knowledge: >A Skeletal Survey >Dedicated to John Velez > >Introduction: The question of the nature of the relationships among >ufological events, folklore, and popular culture seems to be stalled, >mired in ufology's endemic and perhaps pathological habit of >adversarial debate rather than disinterested discussion. This sketch >offers a way around the current stalemate and suggests how it may >have come about. Peter although we disagree about the 'nature' of these experiences, I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate the fact that you (and a few others) are making an effort to unravel the Gordian knot of reported abduction accounts by using logic and common sense. All we ever seem to get nowadays is a pseudo-religious interpretaion (New Agers) and an unquestioned, uninvestigated belief in everything that rolls down the pike in connection with this business. I for one genuinely appreciate your efforts. It all comes out in the wash, what we have to pay attention to is 'which' items are being placed into the washer! >The polarities of the skeptic-versus-believer "debate" have >left the common-sense middle ground empty - bereft of uncontentious >observations and demonstrations that very weird things can and do >occur in, and to, the consciousness of irreproachably sane people. To >suggest that the AE may be a "psychological" phenomenon is >emphatically not to impugn the rationality of the experiencer. I agree completely, but it still doesn't explain my childhood memories (1950's) involving the 'beings' and the 'proceedures' that we are all too familiar with today. It was this curious fact, that others recalled the same details that I had kept secret all of my life, that compelled me to look into this 'alien abduction' business and seek out help in finding answers. If this is some sort of psychological phenomenon it's a lulu! And, it's affecting thousands worldwide. I can only hope that if it is psychological that the 'cure' involves having lots of sex! <G> >So I sit in my box in this curiously decorated, somewhat surreal >theater, suspended somewhere between the opera being sung so >magnificently on stage, and the actual, irremediable, numinous >Gotterdamerung. And I wait for a fat lady to sing. We are all waiting for the fat lady Peter. I'm especially curious about what the lyrics will be. They are being composed even as we all speak! <G> With gratitude, genuine affection and respect, a fellow slave to to the feline, John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Butchers From Another World - 'The People' From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:44:19 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:15:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Butchers From Another World - 'The People' The People Sunday, August 10 1997 p. 12: Butchers from another world ALIENS are being blamed for the slaughter of hundreds of animals in the beautiful countryside where the TV hit Heartbeat is being filmed. Farmers in North Yorkshire are gripped with fear after a series of bizarre deaths on open moorland. In the latest, nine sheep were found with their stomachs ripped out in the village of Snainton. And deer were found with holes in their head and drained of blood in the Dalby Forest area. Over a three-year period, similar strange deaths have been reported all over the North York Moors. Former police sergeant Tony Dodd, now a UFO expert, says all the evidence points to aliens. "There have even been reports of the dead animals falling from the sky, often coinciding with UFO sightings." he says. "Without doubt, there is something very sinister going on." In America, UFO experts believe aliens caused the death of up to 10,000 cattle, found with heads and necks as skeletons but the rest of their corpses intact. Similar strange cases are still unexplained in the Scottish Highlands and, in October 1995, along the Ulster boarder.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:01:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:49:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/10/97 1:53= AM: > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:37:50 -0400 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] > Subject: Of Martian Cats, &c > To: UFO UpDates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > I think that for all practical purposes there is little difference=20 > between these two entities. Popular culture =A1 books, movies, radio=20 > and TV broadcasts, newspaper stories, comic strips, even song and=20 > dance =A1 draws on folklore on the one hand and contributes to and=20 > becomes part of it on the other. Each is a facet of the other when it=20 > comes to delineating what is "in the air" in any particular period.=20 > This would include the craze for "flying saucers" in the American=20 > mind and media in the midsummer of 1947. =20 > Even then and even there one could see folklore, as opposed to=20 > reported fact, at work: Martin Kottmeyer has pointed out somewhere=20 > how strange it is that while Arnold saw crescent-shaped objects, the=20 > flood of UFO reports that immediately followed his seminal sighting=20 > confirmed not his report but the media characterization of what he=20 > saw =A1 that is, "flying saucers", disk-shaped objects. Not so. Jun 26, 1947 - Grand Canyon, AZ, Ball Jun 28 - Lake Meade, NV, Circular Jun 28 - Montgomery, AL, Light July 4 - Seattle, Wash, Circular July 6 - S. Central WY, Oval July 8 - Muroc AFB, Spheres / discs July 9 - Rogers Dry Lake CA , Hemisphere July 10 - Southern NM, Ellipse July 13 - Dayton, OH , Cone =09 I don't know why anyone would take Kottmeyer seriously, anyway. He=20 shows no sign of reading actual case reports. His attempt to "explain"=20 the 1965 Exeter case as a hoax kite is particularly ludicrous, esp. given=20 that not the slightest evidence has ever emerged to support it, and the=20 actual evidence in the case would strongly discount it. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Using Short Period Cycles To Predict UFO Flaps From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:13:25 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:10:39 -0400 Subject: Using Short Period Cycles To Predict UFO Flaps Received this from "alt.alien.visitors" August 10 at 05.10 local Danish time (GMT + 2 hours). I have added the article after the post, but I strongly suggest that you go to the original page as there are many interesting links in the text. Just in case anyone is interested... I've written two articles in the MUFON UFO Journal regarding the=20 possible prediction of UFO waves or flaps by utilizing apparent cycles that seem to parallel this aspect of the UFO phenomena. I presently have an article on the internet regarding predicting UFO=20 flaps using short period cycles measured in days rather than in months or in years (as was the case in my two previous articles). My present investigations have lead me to the conclusion that on the=20 last three Fridays during the month of August one should be more likely to witness a UFO than at any other time during this month. If you are interested in learning more of this possibility, even if you=20 are a doubting Thomas, please give my article a look and come to your own conclusion. Perhaps you might be interested in forming a sky search on one of these nights (many groups are already planning to do just that on Friday, August 29th, organized by UFO Magazine UK). Here is the URL: http://www.flash.net/~joerit/newview.htm In the mean time, don't miss the Perseid meteor shower in the early=20 morning hours of August 12th. Your UFO Cycle guy, Joe Ritrovato http://www.flash.net/~joerit/ufo.html (intro page) http://www.flash.net/~joerit/view.html (UFO Tour) http://www.flash.net/~joerit/evidence.html (UFO Documents) http://www.flash.net/~joerit/newview.htm (UFO Flap Prediction) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 22:44:24 -0700 From: Joe Ritrovato <joerit@flash.net> Subject: Using Short Period Cycles to Predict UFO Flaps Message-ID: <33EC03B8.42A8@flash.net> Can the Next UFO Flap be Predicted??  Copyright =A9 1997 by Joseph W. Ritrovato=20 After posting a notice in a few of the UFO related newsgroups to make people aware of this article and my prediction of heightened UFO activity on certain dates, I received these reactions:=20 "This is a very interesting thought but what is the thinking behind the whole idea, please could you fill me in," -Terry Brown ( terry@formby.demon.co.uk ) (posted to usenet July 2, 1997) "The thinking is that if you get enough people looking up expecting to see something on the same night, then a bunch of them are going to imagine or claim that they see UFOs. It's a short lesson in mass psychology." -Herb Tyson ( tyson@norloff.com ) (posted to usenet July 3, 1997) "The same thing happens with sickness. Hypochondriacs THINK they are sick, and can sometimes exhibit actual symptoms without even having the disease. The UFO sighting may be similar. Which does not discount the existence of UFOs and UFO sightings... but not all are genuine." -David Haughton ( david.haughton@sandiegoca.ncr.com ) (posted to usenet July 3, 1997) One apparent bias on the part of these last two respondents is the supposed belief that nearly all UFO observers are wishful thinkers or that their experiences will be solely based on expectations. If someone suggests to them that they will likely see a UFO on a particular night, and believe the source of that information, they will more than likely imagine a sky born object to be a true UFO. I don't believe this to be true. I am sure that some will be influenced in this way, but the vast majority will not. The more suggestible are just as likely to believe that UFO flaps can not be predicted because they are convinced that UFO activity is due to alien covert operations. They would already believe that they know the true nature of the phenomena and wouldn't be open to other possibilities. The scoffers above were no doubt so sure that there is no basis in predicting UFO appearances that they chose not to argue the point directly. These skeptics may believe that most witnesses are suggestible because they are themselves suggestible (although the source of what influences them may be different). Science would say there is nothing to UFOs because aliens are almost definitely not visiting this planet. As a result anyone who witnesses a UFO and believes it to have been not from our normal planetary experience are just wishful thinkers (or worse). Even if we have or will be visited by non-human beings, the chances of it happening now are minute and therefore they say such reasoning is still valid. Contradicting these views is a substantive core of UFO sighting data that strongly points to the possibility of advanced non-human appearances within our present reality. If the typical arguments of skeptical scientists were true the little known findings of Project Blue Book's Special Report Number 14, that found a significantly higher number of true unknown flying objects among the more credible witnesses, could not be true.=20 Wouldn't credible witnesses also have a more open mind to new possibilities? Let me discuss a new possibility. As does UFO researcher and author John Keel, I believe that we at times experience visitations of an intelligence that is normally beyond our perception. They share the same space as we do but, because of our being in a much different dimension of reality, normally do not perceive their existance. If these intelligences have been here for thousand of years, but for the most part undetected, then they are not visitors, but co-inhabitants. From their perspective, we could be the interlopers. My theory is that we more directly experience each other during times of heightened geomagnetic disruptions which interfere with the barriers between our different dimensions. In my scenario there is both random and periodic fluctuations in this field. Predicting these changes is difficult due to there being several causes of the fluctuations. These apparent trigger mechanisms are most likely due to changes in solar radiation output and the lunar gravitational pull (at key times during their periodic cycles), sudden changes in the wobble of the earth on its axis, sudden build-ups of tectonic stresses or a combination of all of these. There is also a possibility of causes linked to emanations from beyond our solar system. All of these proposed factors may also parallel the appearances of droughts, earthquakes, strange weather, and cryptozoological anomalies such as bigfoot and misplaced animal sightings (even misplaced or disappearances of people). With all of this said we can now move on to my article to see if UFO flaps can be predicted:=20 In my past articles in the MUFON Journal I've referred to cycles measured in months and years, but there is at least one other cycle measured in days that was proposed by truth seeker and author John Keel. Mr. Keel is one of the more entertaining writers who has spent a good deal of time investigating UFOs.=20 In his 1970 book "Operation Trojan Horse" (just recently re-issued, but without the original bibliography) he proposed a cycle of seven days or multiples of that to explain a noteworthy increase of sightings on Wednesday in the reports that he collected for 1966 and 1967 (particularly in March of those years when sightings were quite pronounced).=20 I have investigated this possible cycle and there does seem to be a correlation with Wednesday and increased sightings of UFOs in the past few years (again for some reason during the month of March). However, there have been many years where this has not been the case and in my opinion this "Wednesday Phenomena" is not directly linked to "true" UFOs.=20 The controversial figure Bob Lazar has stated that while working at Area 51, purportedly back-engineering the propulsion systems of captured flying saucers, he learned that such experimental or ultra secret aircraft were most often flown in the middle of the week (since most air transportation dealing with civilian passengers were less frequent during this time). This would seem to indicate that the increase that appears at times on Wednesday is due to such flights and not to non-human manned aerial objects.=20 On the other hand, I do believe there to be a seven day cycle, yet not exactly that figure. From my research I have found at least one cycle of just under seven days or a multiple of that. Evidence of this cycle is most noticeable during periods of high activity and shows up in the sighting report data beginning in late 1994 and still appears to be noteworthy at this time.=20 For example, Arizona had many dramatic sighting reports of a very large UFO for a few days in mid March of this year. The most reported series occurred on March 13th But these sightings actually started on March 10th and lasted a few days. Another dramatic series of sightings occurred in Texas on May 5 (check out the top of the home page for NUFORC for details related to both of these events). There were 54 days between the date March 12 and the sightings of May 5. This spacing of major sightings seems to be related to a cycle of almost exactly 6.75 days and a longer one of (or close to) 54 days working together. The telltale pattern of these cycles appears during many periods of heightened UFO activity including the wave of sightings in Belgium of a large triangular craft in 1989 and 1990.=20 The peaks of this combination of cycles should trigger the next concentration of dramatic sightings on June 28 or 29 (Saturday or Sunday), and again on August 21 or 22 (Thursday or Friday). Since, as mentioned in my last MUFON article (June '96), August represents the month where peak UFO activity commonly occurs in a given year, the August date may be the more pronounced (June is often a low month for sightings). The extent of the effect on sightings at these peaks should last at least one day before and after the true peak date. The better of the two dates given for each of these peak times is most likely the later one (Sunday and then two months later on Friday), especially if the Wednesday peaks in March of '66-67 and '93-95 are related to my proposed cycle of 6.75 days.=20 A separate cycle that peaks roughly every two weeks should also produce sighting concentrations about a week before and after these prediction dates. Since this last cycle is expected to reach maximum intensity close to the peak of the 6.75 day cycle, and close enough to the 54 day peak for that to be a factor, these other dates could potentially be responsible for at least as many sightings (especially in June and July). The dates to look out for, besides the ones mentioned earlier, are June 22 (Sunday), July 5-6 (Sat/Sun), August 15-16 (Fri/Sat), and August 28-30 (Thur-Sat).=20 Interestingly, my best estimate of when the roughly two week cycle and the 6.75 day cycle last peaked in unison (on the same day and at the same time) turned out to be on May 26, 1997 (Memorial Day), at midday Pacific time. This happened to be when talk show host Art Bell and his wife had a UFO sighting. Two women independently saw something similar around the same time in New Mexico (see "Daylight Disc Hovers over Ruins at Mesa Verde" in the UFO Roundup newsletter of June 8, 1997).=20 To get some idea of where to expect a possible UFO Flap around any one of these dates, a display of recent U.S. sighting locations is provided here. Since this map includes reports only from 1992 through April 1996, one hotspot area is not emphasized. A UFO flap in New Hampshire and Vermont (especially the former) lasting at least six weeks began January 15th of this year. UFO Researcher Raymond Fowler remarked "I don't think we've had anything like this since 1973." In October of that year much of the eastern half of the U.S. experienced a wave of sightings including a rash of reports along the New Hampshire-Massachusetts border. This year their back, making appearances up to eight times more often than usual, but further north than in 1973. Arizona, as mentioned earlier, has experienced many sightings this year since mid March.=20 There is no sure way to know exactly what areas may be effected during the next flap, but readers of my first MUFON article may recall that New Hampshire was assigned fourth place on my list of the likeliest states in the U.S. to experience a UFO. Some states, such as New Hampshire, are often high in UFO sightings. Although California is typically at the top of the list for the volume of reports coming out of a given state, it is not as special as one might at first think. California also leads the others in population. When population and land area is factored in it comes out more average then tops.=20 However, there are special areas in most states. Good spots can be found in California around Eureka on the north coast, Redding in the north part of the Central Valley, and Vista near San Diego. There is also a wide area of the southern coast from Santa Monica to Vandenberg AFB (Topanga Canyon falls into this range). For anyone looking for a UFO experience, it would be best to seek out such common sighting areas or locations that have had the most recent upswing in activity. The northern part of New Hampshire qualifies in both these regards (the Phoenix area of Arizona perhaps to a lesser extent).=20 Shortly after completing this article, another interesting story came my way that could be related to what I have presented here. While listening to the UFO Update given by Michael Lindemann (airs every Wednesday night) on the "Sightings on the Radio" program of May 14th (requires Real Audio to listen to the program archives). During the evening of May 5th (a peak day for my proposed 6.75 and 54 day cycles) an unknown object crashed into the hills surrounding Laguna Cartagena in the southwest part of Puerto Rico. A fire resulted, the military went in, sealed off the area, and investigated the site. There were reports of metal fragments being removed, but UFO Researcher Jorge Martin (local to the area) believes that these were only the remains of an automobile long discarded in the jungle. He also feels that the cause of this incident was most likely due to a meteorite. However, I find it interesting that this specific location has been the scene of many UFO sightings in Puerto Rico including one of the strangest UFO sightings of the past decade. Hopefully, more solid information will come to light regarding this event. UPDATE: The following internet links provide information on other recent sightings that appear to fit in with the shorter cycles discussed in this article (of nearly 6.75 days and roughly two weeks). There were sightings on May 25 (Sunday) near Loco, Oklahoma, June 9-10 (Mon.-Tues.) & 6/20 (Friday) in Salida, Colorado, June 22 (Sunday) in Tempe, AZ, June 23 (Monday) between Tuscon and Phoenix, AZ, again on June 23 northwest of Las Vegas, NV (from the direction of Area-51), and yet another sighting June 23 over the north part of Huntsville, Alabama. The dates and times of these sightings would seem to indicate that the peak of the shortest cycle would occur during the afternoon on Sunday June 29th (within the time zones of the continental 48 states of the U.S.), with the peak effects lasting at least 28 hours before and after. On that day, during the time of the expected peak, there were dramatic sightings in Brazil. Late that same evening there was a spectacular sighting reported from Los Banos, California. There was also an odd midday unidentified object tracked on radar by an aircraft flying at high altitude between Denver and Aspen, Colorado on June 30. A week later (July 6th), when the shortest and two week cycle peaked, a crop circle was discovered in Utah (another circle was found the following day in New Jersey as mentioned at the end of this last linked article). If you arrived here via this paragraph click here if you wish to go to the beginning of this article. Some final notes. I'm taking this opportunity to make a correction to my June, 1996, MUFON Journal article. In that presentation I mentioned a flap of UFO activity that occurred in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania in early 1995, but it actually took place in the area of Harrisonburg, Virginia. This was caused by an error in the NUFORC data for late February of that year. Their director has recently informed me that they are in the process of correcting the mistake. Also, related to my first MUFON Journal article of March, 1995, there are a few revisions I would like to make at this time as well. Coral Lorenzen with her husband Jim (both now deceased) first made public the idea of a five year UFO cycle back in 1968 (rather than '69) with the publishing of their book UFOs Over the Americas (rather than UFOs - the Whole Story). Regarding my prediction of an extended period of greater than average UFO sightings in 1995, this did appear to be the case. There were more reports than usual through September of that year, but the duration of the increase lasted four months longer, beginning in August of 1994 (rather than December), and the peak occurred two months earlier than my prediction (February-March rather than April-May). My belief that the two shortest period cycles (mentioned in more detail in this article) would peak together every other weekend in April and May of '95 was roughly accurate. My present best estimate of when these two cycles peaked together was Sunday, May 21, 1995. The best guess I had at the time for the effects of the peaks of these two cycles was Friday-Sunday for those two months, but now feel Sunday-Tuesday would have been the better days. Instead of the likelihood that as many as one out of ten UFO witnesses choose to be bold enough to report their sighting, I now feel it is more likely that only one in one hundred witnesses do so (click here to see how I arrived at this figure). Peter Davenport, the director of the National UFO Reporting Center was recently quoted as saying he believes it to be one person in a million, but that was either a misquote or he was likely exaggerating to make a point. In regards to the frequency of UFO sightings in the U.S. by state, a revised ranking list is now provided here. The original compilation was based on the Air Force Project Blue Book unknowns for the period 1953-1969. My new listing is more current, comprehensive, and precise. Also, in the article I put emphasis on the southeastern part of Pennsylvania, but that portion of the state ranks second. The greatest number of sighting reports comes out of the southwestern quarter (where there is also a stronger presence of serious UFO researchers). Here are Some Links to Websites that Originate from Active UFO Sighting Regions in the U.S.: =B0NW MYSTERIES - Greg Long's Website in Washington State is Very Professional=20 =B0MUFON WASHINGTON - Another Website from this Top Ranked UFO Hot Spot =B0GULF BREEZE - Nebula (Parascope) Looks at Florida's Famous UFO Hot Spot =B0WESTERN PLAINS MYSTERIES - Check-out UFO Experiences in S.Dakota =B0MOUNTAIN STATE - A Newspaper Article about UFOs in West Virginia =B0MUFON AZ - Check-out their Newsletters (scroll just past midway down their page) =B0EASTERN MAINE - UFO Network (site just born) is Associated with MUFON =B0IUR - Institute for UFO Research sponsors the Rocky Mtn UFO Conference in Wyoming =B0COLORADO MUFON - Colorado has More Sightings than the Average State =B0ELMWOOD - Midwestern Town Proudly Stakes its Claim as Wisconsin's UFO Capital Please take a look at my REST OF THE BEST UFO related links (now has 38 links), return to the UFO Tour page, or (if you just arrived here) enter my UFO Window homepage (has my initial group of links).=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Another Question for Kal From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:52:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:24:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal > Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 20:25:46 -0500 > From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: Another Question for Kal > Perhaps someone who has no better sense than to make such statements in > a public forum doesn't have the kind of credibility most radio hosts > want to be associated with, much less risk whatever he might say next. > I hope Kal goes through with scheduling an appearance on Art's program. > Now THAT is something I'd stay up all night to listen to. > Dave Vetterick Dave, Excuse me, but I just have to ring in here. Considering many of Art Bell's repeat guests, such as Robert Morningsky and Robert Ghostwolf, among others, I dare say that the last and least important criteria for being a guest on Bell's show is _credibility_. The simple fact is that Art Bell is an entertainer, not an investigator. All you have to do is look at the roster of past and present Bell guests and you will see that 99 percent of them are people with incredible stories to tell without the benefit of proof. You'll also notice that he doesn't go out of his way to find guests who will say that the other guests with the incredible stories are full of crap. Why? Because he wants the ones that are full of crap to come back and tell more stories. Let's face it: Art wouldn't have much of a show if not for a lot of good storytellers who don't have real jobs. That's not to say that he doesn't have _any_ credible guests, because he does. But as far as credibility being high on Bell's list for eligiblity to be a guest, I don't think so. In fact, that's pretty funny. Buck
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:29:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix Lights - 'Solved'? >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:01:26 -0700 >> ><snip> >> >I have so many questions and no answers. Over and over I ask, >> > "What is the MEANING?!! WHAT IS THE MEANING?!!!" It HAS >> >meaning but what is it?!! >> Why don't you quit analyzing the thing you saw and just accept >> the fact that you saw something. >It's true that it's important to accept having seen something, but it is >equally important to determine its nature. I agree, however, you must be able to examine the "thing" you are attempting to determine the nature of. If you have something "in hand," then you can do so. If the nature of the "thing" you are attempting to analyze is such that there is no way to "prove" it's "physical" existence, then you deifinitely have a problem. It is unfortunate that the society in which we currently reside accepts as evidence, or proof of existence, only Hard, physical data. There is so much that is dismissed as "reality," due to this mindset. But, that is another story. WE are dealing with a phenomena, which for all practical pruposes, projects the image of reality. That is, it's characteristics project solidity, which can be tracked on radar; leaves impressions and burned spots on the ground; interfere's with electrical systems and produces magnetic anomolies. Yet, while these anomolies for all practical purposes are real, there is disagreement as to the cause of them. Physical science projects the idea that these are natural phenomena which we do not yet understand. This may be so. However, how long does it take for physical science to "track down" this phenomena. They can discover planets around distant stars, but they cannot even explain what "electricity" is. We know how it works, but not what it is. The same is true of Magnetism. We use these forces in our everyday lives, but don't understand why they are. Is it possible that there may be "side effects" to these forces, which we are not aware of? Could the phenomena which we attribute to "UFOs," be one of these side effects? >> You are going to drive yourself crazy if you continue to analyze >> it. IF you are meant to know "why" you will find out. >> How many people do you think just wish they could have seen >> what you saw? Do you think by analyzing if continuously, that >> you will make it go away? >"Why" remains, IMHO, a premature question, and, in some cases, >a not pertinent one. Your points on that below are well taken. >> Why does there have to be a reason or purpose for your having >> seen it? Is there such a thing to you as just being in the >> right place at the right (wrong??) time? >> How can there be such a diversity of ALIEN Intervention? If one is >> interested in Helping Save Humanity and the Earth, why would they >> sit by and and watch other races rape and pillage us? >> Something just doesn't add up here. You can't have it both ways. >> If they are advanced enought to travel through space/Time/dimension, >> they are smart enought to know that there are others here with >> intentions opposite of their own. Why would they allow such >> to continue? >I can't agree with this. IF there are aliens, and IF aliens are behind >a UFO phenomenon, attempting to determine their motivations, the >level of variety, individuality, freedom, private vs. government control >in their society, etc, is not going to be an easy job, and is going to >require an incredible amount of very, very carefully documented research moving >in very small steps from evidence to conclusion. Here we are attempting to Justify a "belief." "IF" is a big word to be so small. I would not attempt to assume that an "alien" system would be anything like we know. IF there are alien systems, they could be so foreign to our way of thinking that we would think they were totally irrational. Remember, we operate from the premis of Individual rights and needs. "I" seems to be the most important standard on this pathetic world. Just look at the "egocentric" posts which flood this List on a daily basis. Each of "US" presupposes to be "correct" in our tirades and poetic prose. Yet, for all of our "correctness," we are not a bit closer to understanding the "cause" behind the manifestation. If you remember Greek Mythology, the "GODS," toyed with humanity. They derived their entertainment and pleasure from the folly of mankind. It appears that mankind has risen to the point where they have supplanted the GODS with their own "GODSHIP," and profess to have insight that the rest of "US" poor indolent mortals cannot begin to understand or appreciate. Actually, we may be very carefully documenting our own "evolution," thinking we are documenting "an alien" one. I would suggest that if these "aliens" do exist, they may not be "alien" at all! They may in fact be our progenators. They may have achieved a highly advanced technology with which they evacuated themselves from this planet which was in a higly volatile state, which resulted in catastrophic rearrangement of the planet's echosphere. Over the eons of time since their evacuation, they very well may have returned here from time to time to "see" what the results of that/those catastrophic events were. They may have watched the continued evolution of the various life forms and from time to time interviened by injecting changes in the DNA to speed up the assention to sentient consciousness of those humanoid bipedal beasts. These beasts being the devolutionary result of the catastrophies which prompted their evacuation of the planet earth. In other words, those who were not fortunate enough to escape during the mass evacuation, digressed and returned to the "animalistic" behaviour pattern when deprived of their technology and the known comforts. It is possible that they were pagan dwellers, who were unskilled workers who depended on their employers or teachers to direct their lives. When they were deprived of them, they simply reverted to the uneducated, animalistic behaviour patterns resident in all humanity. Just look at the "gang" mentality in our society today to understand how this works. When a city degenerates due to riots, or fires, or earthquake, or flood, etc.; just see how quickly the "animals" come out of the woodwork to destroy and loot. This is in my opinion what could have occurred so many millinium ago. <G> Sorry for for the long winded tirade. <g> >Frankly, I think too many people are rushing to try to answer "Why?" >without taking the first step of answering "What?", and "How?" And >the above is just one more shot at it. Intention theories can be made, >but they are nothing more than the rankest speculation. Sure...I agree. I feel we have to much of said speculation. Eventually, all this does is add to the "noise level." There are to many who simply read the speculations we postulate and adopt them to their own use. From that point on, they do lipservice to the idea without actually researching it to see if there is any credience to it. All of us have done it at one time or another. >After all, "Aliens are alien." Do you know this for certain? Or is it just more speculation? <g> ;-) >> I am moving more and more toward the idea that "most" of the Abduction >> phenomena is nothing more than pure hyseria and paranoia! Escapists! >> Tired of the day to day oppression by governments, businesses, employers, >> spouces, children, etc., etc., etc. >> So, they allow their desire for someone or something to blame it on, >> to manufacture "aliens!" By the same token, those of a basic religious >> faith, manufacture "Angels" or "good aliens," to help them cope with >> these daily oppressive life events. >While I have my problems with a number of abduction accounts, and with >the methods used to elicit them, and especially with the "contactee" >phenomenon as it seems to be reborn today, I remain open on the subject. AS a researcher, you could not be any other way, and be objective. Hang on to that mindset. There will be considerable pressure from various sectors to force you to make a choice, in the near future. Patience is a virtue, not a curse. <g> >I just wish that as much effort was being spent on basic research on >objectively verifiable experiences (i.e. sightings) as seems to be >spent on Roswell, largely subjective experiences such as abductions, etc. Well, there have been attempts to do so, but some "expert" jumps in and tries to discredit the research of those doing the work. Telling them they are not qualified to do such research. These people wish to take over and control the data. Thus, much of the date disappears and never resurfaces....is this by design? Is this to help discredit the phenomena? >> There are no "experts" in UFOLOGY. How can there be EXPERTS in a field >> which "Science/Military/Political" establishments refuse to acknowledge? >> If it is ever acknowledged by those establishments, then we can start >> to accquire data and develop "experts," in "A new field of Science." >> Until then, each person, regardless of whom they are, or what they >> profess to Know, is just as equal as anyone else. >I can't agree that we have to wait for acceptance before we can develop >information and theory. In fact, it will be impossible to develop >acceptance without information and theory. This is so...however, there is quite a distinction from theory and fact. Most of us deal with theory. I wish to jump to fact. Is that so much to ask? I am tired of the run-a-round. Fifty years is enough! We are buffeted on each side, no matter which way we turn...believers, skeptics, disinformation/misinformation/debunkers; they all serve the same purpose in this field. They keep everything in a state of chaos. I am ready for closure. Most others are not. Why? Mainly, because it would mean an end of their importance. A loss of revenue? A loss of public respect? A loss of purpose? There are many reasons. However, until we close out this stage of the phenomena, we cannot hope to move to the next level...co-operation and co-ordination of "???alien??? and earth co-operation." Treaties, Trade, co-acceptance. This is where we must go next. But first, we must find closure in "verification." >We do have some experts. There aren't a lot of them, they have widely >varying opinions in some areas, but we do have people who know the data, >and who are qualified to derive at least some conclusions from it. The data is just so much speculation. AM I an EXPERT? I think not. I can read data. I can speculate. I can postulate. I can outline a plan where by this could be brought to fruition, but does tha make me and "expert?" Not hardly. <g> >> To date, whether we like or not; apprecite it or not; agree or not; >> UFOLOGY IS "SCIENCE FICTION." Circumstantial Evidence is not EVIDENCE! >Mike, please - you should know better. There's a lot more to UFOlogy than >"circumstantial evidence". UFOlogy may not be a mature science, and >may have a lot of fringe around the edges, but there are good solid cases, >with physical and medical effects, multiple witnesses, etc., and there is some >good work and theory being created. It sounds good Mark. But is is just so much conjecture. I agree there are good solid cases. But, our system has chosen to reject those cases as querks. They choose not to follow up on them, for one reason. It does not fit our "scheme of things." IF accepted, it would, from many people's point of view, totally disrupt our way of life and thinking. This is similar to the ideology of the ninth and tenth centuries. Many were either executed or threatened with such if they did not accept the dictiates of "the Church/State" in regards to the Earth being the center of the Universe. God made man in his image. Man was the central most important aspect of creation...The earth was the home of man, therefore, the earth was the center of God's attention. There was no other place in the vast expanse of the univers where life resided. The stars were simply put in the vault of heaven to inspire man's worship of the Grandness of God. I could say more, but that is another story. We could write volumes on mythology and theology...but it would not add to the credibility of the UFO PHENOMENA. Take care Mark. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:31:35 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:03:55 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. > Philip Corso > >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:06:18 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: Col. Corso and Discussions by Stacy & Alevy > >It's taken me too long to get around to reading Corso's book, but now that > >I've done so, I must say I side with Gary Alevy on this. I couldn't find > >any statement saying that Jesse Marcel had been at the crash site where > >the UFO & alien bodies had been found. > Dear Jim: > You, sir, are an apologist. You would apologize for Pol Pot if it could be > demonstrated that he had had (or just claimed to have had) a UFO encounter > at some point in his life. (And, hey, how do we know he didn't?) > Your apologies (and an amazing, stunning, mind-boggling appetite for > believing absolutely anything positive anyone says about UFOs, no matter how > patently far-fetched or ridiculous on the surface), however, are compounded > by the fact that apparently you can't even read. > Check out the top of page 17 (or did you make it that far?): there's Marcel > at the crash site -- with bodies. Now, turn the page, that's right, to page > 18, and tell the list what you see here. Not only is Marcel still at the > crash site, we even get two paragraphs of quotes from him. OK, you caught me there, Dennis. This was in the section where, as Gary has pointed out, the authors had to fill in what Corso had had no knowledge about, and it appears that Birnes took the liberty of inventing a Hollywood-like movie script there. But since you don't like apologies or apologists, I'll admit only to the fact that you're not *always* wrong. Did anyone on the List hear the Art Bell show a month or so ago when he had Philip Corso on; was he asked by a caller about this statement regarding Marcel and admit he had been mistaken? > >But if the book had mistakenly placed Marcel there, so what? It would be > >easy enough for a retired officer in his eighties to make such a mistake, > >in reading through books by Randle and others, or more likely the book's > >writer, William Birnes, could easily have made such a mistake. But I > >don't see that they did. > And that's precisly the trouble, Jim. You _don't_ see, not even when it's > staring you in the face. If Corso and Birnes were wrong about Marcel, what > else might they be wrong about? Or was this their only slip-up in 341 pages? That's for the discerning reader to decide. Such a reader does not make black-and-white, all-or-nothing type judgments. If the book should be wrong on 10% of its statements, the other 90% could be quite revealing and open up new avenues of research, and give new insights. This I say the book does. > Hopefully, Corso and Birnes will prove some of their claims. They could > start by making Trudeau's autobiography available, ... If Trudeau has written one, are you implying it is now seeking a publisher or some such? If it mentions Corso in it, I don't think you would be particularly impressed merely by that. If it fails to mention anything about UFOs or Roswell, that would merely mean he didn't feel the time was yet ripe to reveal such secrets. Only if he came clean like Corso did would it be impressive. > along with the manuscript submitted to the printers, ... Here you are probably referring to the Corso book manuscript. If it were significantly different from the book itself, and he were to release it, that could well violate some provision of his contract with the publisher, Pocket Books, unless they were to approve. And they're not likely to if they altered things very much. > and copies of any correspondence they may have > had during the writing of the book, or perhaps any audio or videotapes that > Birnes may have made while interviewing Corso. But you can pretty safely bet > your collection of Meier photographs that that won't happen. It does seem unlikely that Birnes would do so, since he'd have nothing to gain but quite possibly some credibility to lose. > ... what I want people to realize is that Corso's entire alien invasion > scenario is preposterous on its surface and in its reasoning. If they're > here and hell-bent on invasion, then why did they hesitate long enough for > Corso to save us and the world from them? Not very smart aliens, eh? I'd > like to see the performance review of the alien general or admiral in charge > of the invasion fleet who blew it by hanging around a good 30 to 40 years, > twiddling his four or six fingers, before we put up a defense shield. No > match for Corso he! Maybe there's some hope for you yet, Dennis. Yes, any aliens who wished to destroy our world, or wipe us out, or enslave us, would have had the opportunity to initiate such action many times over in the past 50 years, not to mention in past centuries. But one needn't make the assumption that all aliens are of like mind, or of similar ethical attitude, or of similar technical & evolutionary advancement. (And I see you do realize that they do not all have the same number of fingers.) With the likelihood of thousands and millions of years disparities between the different levels of advancement of different alien groups, such an assumption wouldn't make sense. So keep this analogy in mind: We have criminals here on Earth who would take over control of the world if they could, but have they? Apparently they haven't, and it's because they are in the minority and others of somewhat higher ethical values hold more power. (I'm not saying, Dennis, that Hitler didn't come close, or that dictatorships don't exist, or that our democracy is anywhere close to perfect...) Getting back to Corso's book, if others on this List haven't yet acquired it, I'd urge them to do so, as it does give a very important and particular insider's military view of the Roswell coverup. And please feel free to report here whatever new insights it may inspire; don't let Dennis's tendency to rant against any positive reports deter you. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:21:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:33:24 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:36:05 -0400 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: "The Day Before Roswell" > To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> > Is there in fact significant evidence that an alien craft crashed in > the New Mexico desert, or, is the explanation a Project Mogul balloon > train, as evidenced in the US Air Force's July 1994 report, which > affirmed the original findings of researcher Robert Todd. > Is there in fact significant evidence that an alien craft crashed in > the New Mexico desert, or, is the explanation a Project Mogul balloon > train, as evidenced in the US Air Force's July 1994 report, which > affirmed the original findings of researcher Robert Todd. > In the story carried by the Roswell Daily Record on 9 July, 1947, it's > reported that Brazel described the debris he found as "tinfoil, paper, > tape, and sticks" and confirmed "at least one paper fin had been glued > onto some of the tinfoil". > Furthermore, "Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers > printed upon it had been used in the construction. No string or wire > were to be found, but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate > that some sort of attachment may have been used". > Brazel's descriptions correspond with the recollection of Bessie > Brazel Schreiber, Brazel's daughter, who claims she was shown by her > father, "sticks, like kite sticks, attached to some of the pieces [of > foil-like material] with a whitish tape" and "tape [which] was about > two or three inches wide and had flower-like designs on it". [4] > "There was what appeared to be pieces of heavily waxed paper and a > sort of aluminium-like foil", she added. [5] > Loretta Proctor, Brazel's neighbour, confirmed that Mac, "said there > was more stuff there, like a tape that had some sort of figures on > it". [6] "There was also something he described as tape which had > printing on it. The colour of the printing was a kind of purple", she > recalled. [7] > We seem to have consistent evidence, at the outset, that the debris > was of flimsy construction and consisted of sticks, paper, foil and > tape with purple printing on it. > As Bessie Schreiber noted, "the debris looked like pieces of a large > balloon which had burst". [8] To James and the List, Something has bothered me about these witness accounts for a long time now. Since it is true that several witnesses described what were obviously mundane, earthly remnants of whatever crashed near Roswell, that testimony must carry considerable weight. However, witnesses also described pieces of debris which apparently had strange characteristics that seemed anything but mundane. That testimony _must_ also be considered. Considering both sets of seemingly conflicting descriptions, I wonder why no one(to my knowledge)has ever suggested the possibility of a mid-air collision between a weather/Mogul balloon and a craft of unknown origin. That would account for the conflicting descriptions of the crash debris. It doesn't answer everything about the Roswell puzzle, but it would allow a few of the pieces to fall in place. Mid-air collisions _are_ a real and constant concern for _any_ aircraft, and I would see no reason to exclude that concern for flying disks, whatever their origin. Buck
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 32 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:21:43 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 32 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 32 August 10, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor UFOs SWEEP CANADA During the past couple of weeks, UFOs have been sighted in three provinces of Canada--Ontario, Manitoba and British Columbia. The flap began July 15, 1997 in Parry Sound (population 5,501), Ontario (Ont.), a port on Lake Huron approximately 155 miles (248 kilometers) north of Toronto. At about 9:30 p.m. on July 15, two Parry Sound residents "observed a 'long, pencil-thin' object floating over an island across the bay. It moved slowly for 30 seconds, then 'turned jet-black' and floated out into the sky until it was lost in the clouds." On Thursday, July 31, 1997, at 10:10 p.m., a man in Barrie, Ont. (population 34,381), a city on the western end of Lake Simcoe 66 miles (105 kilometers) northwest of Toronto, "was out setting up my telescope for an evening of observation" when "a brilliant meteor with a brilliant green trail and a trail of sparks like commercial fireworks came from magnetic south and traveled toward magnetic north, right over my house. It disappeared behind some houses and trees to the north. Total time observed--about four seconds." "Now for the strange part," he reported, "It made a noise as it passed overhead. Not a whistle, not a whine, (but) a rushing noise, and a series of pop-pop-pop noises, like an out-of-tune car engine backfiring. As an amateur astronomer, I know meteors are usually silent unless they are bolides and explode in the atmosphere or on impact. I have seen lots of meteors before, and all were silent." In British Columbia, a UFO was observed in Vancouver on Saturday, July 26, 1997. At 12:40 a.m., a resident living near the intersection of Boundary and Grandview Highway was "outside my house with a friend, looking to the north at the Big Dipper, talking about the (Hale-Bopp) comet and satellites." It was a "clear night, lots of stars. Saw a large dark orange object flying east to west. No sound, no lights, not an airplane, helicopter, falling star, etc. I noticed it at the one o'clock position (and it moved) to the ten o'clock position. Took about nine seconds, then blocked by trees." Two nights later, on Monday, July 28, 1997, at 12:05 a.m., a woman standing at the corner of 68th Street and the King George Highway in Surrey, B.C. "saw a brilliant white light hovering in the southeast sky. The woman believed the object was hovering over Cloverdale. The object pulsed and faded at times, getting extremely bright (and) at other times, the size of a small star. Several unconventional movements were also observed during the 30-minute viewing." On Thursday, July 31, 1997, at 11:15 p.m., Heather M. and her husband were on the deck of their home in Richmond, B.C. (population 80,034). "Looking up, she observed an extremely bright orange-white object shaped like a boomerang moving from the northwest to the southeast. She lost sight of it after about 10 seconds due to large trees in the area. Her dog during the sighting continued to whimper and act strangely. Other dogs in the neighborhood could be heard barking." In Manitoba, on Monday July 28, 1997, at 1:00 a.m., a man standing near the corner of Sturgeon Road and Saskatchewan Avenue in Winnipeg (population 560,874) "observed a bright, star-like object 'due north.' It 'flashed red and green' as it 'sat for about 20 minutes' near the horizon before it descended out of sight." On Monday, August 4, 1997, a woman in the area of Bishop Grandin Boulevard in Winnipeg "observed an object in the southeast. Initially, it was stationary, but then it moved 'back and forth' while staying in the same general area of the sky. The object, which appeared like a bright star 'with little stars near it,' did not make any other movement and was seen for at least an hour." The sighting took place at 10:15 p.m. Two hours later, at 12:45 a.m. on August 5, a man parked in his vehicle near Archibald Street in Winnipeg, looking south, saw "a bright light source approaching from the southeast, heading northwest." "As he watched, the starlike object suddenly seemed to grow into a 'headlight' as it changed its course slightly, first to the right, then to the left. Several other smaller lights seemed to be traveling with the main light, arranged in a triangular pattern. No sound was audible, and the witness doubted it was an aircraft because of this fact. After about five minutes, the object was lost to sight low on the horizon behind some trees and buildings." (Many thanks to Canadian ufologists David Edward, Bill Oliver and Chris Rutkowski for these news stories.) ROUNDUP READERS JOIN HUNT FOR MISSING MARS PHOTOS The Pathfinder photo mystery continued last week as UFO ROUNDUP readers reported more anomalies in the surface photos from the planet Mars. Desiree Holloway first discovered the fact that the original high-resolution photo #81977 had been replaced at the JPL website and mirror sites with a grainy, low-resolution photo. On Monday, August 4, 1997, Edward F. "found something interesting" at JPL's online newsletter for the Mars Pathfinder mission (see Fun UFO Websites below--J.T.) Edward reported, "You will notice the pictures jump from #81991 to #81963. In fact, a whole wack of them are missing." (Editor's Comment: Reminds me of the Zapruder film!) Kiko Gajse theorized that the missing Pathfinder photos "may still" be in "their browser's cache. Internet Explorer and Netscape keep all downloaded files in a cache for faster showing the next time you go to the site. Internet Explorer keeps those files in a C:\Windows\ Temporary Internet Files directory. I do not know the exact directory name for Netscape." However, K. McLellan warns that the Pathfinder UFO photo may be a forgery. "As a graphic designer, I use computers for image manipulation every day," McLellan wrote. "Using a Macintosh computer and an Adobe photoshop...it would take about fifteen minutes to create an extremely realistic looking UFO on any one of the (Pathfinder) images sent back from Mars. It would be laughably easy." "Then you would need to break into the Sun/NASA/ JPL/whoever site and replace the original Mars photo with the 'new and improved' UFO version, which wouldn't be extremely difficult, if you have the right background/ knowledge. Replace the photo, and presto! The official photo of a UFO now exists on the official Mars server for anyone to download--at least until the sysadmin finds the bogus image and replaces it with the original 'fuzzy' image." Your editor visited the website at 6:45 a.m. on Wednesday, August 6, 1997. I was unable to find the alleged 28 "missing photos" (#81963 through #81991). However, I did find something odd in Pathfinder photo #82358. The photo's caption reads, "Shows North Twin Peak in super/resolution b & w (black and white--J.T.)" The photo shows a bright white spot at the 11 o'clock position on North Twin Peak, just to the left of the mountain's summit. The "spot" appears to be in front of the peak. Also, there is a dark band of shadow beneath the "spot," which suggests an anomalous object flying between North Twin Peak and the Patherfinder's camera. Just below the "spot," on the mountain's face, is a clearly visible avalanche slide. The Pathfinder photo at Mako's website shows an anomalous shadow falling across the lander. Jeroen Wierda of Picard UFO Research International (PUFORI) pointed out a "bright object" in Pathfinder photo #81976, which NASA subsequently claimed was "part of Pathfinder's cone-shaped shell." (Many thanks to all the UFO ROUNDUP readers who sent in news tips on the Pathfinder mystery this week.) THREE TRIANGULAR UFOs SEEN OVER WISCONSIN On Friday night, August 1, 1997, Fred P. was "driving west on Highway 10 from Manitowoc, Wisconsin (population 32,547) to Brillion, Wisconsin (population 2,907) when I saw something quite unusual." "It was almost like a mini-airshow using unusual aircraft," he reported. "There were three of them. It was quite dark, and all I could see was their light pattern, illustrated below." X ****** "Each individual craft had the above light pattern, where the X is a flashing white light, and the * are solid yellow lights...the three of them were moving quite slowly, but they did some interesting precision maneuvers." (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for this news story.) UFO FLIES OVER CITY IN EASTERN NORTH DAKOTA On Sunday, July 27, 1997, at 11:05 p.m., a man in Valley City, North Dakota (population 7,774) spotted "an object...straight overhead, traveling from the southeast to the northwest in a relatively straight line. The object first appeared to be a beacon or white light flashing like a rotating lighthouse at intervals, about two times every second, very bright, not a strobe but a very gradual burst of light." "I have seen many satellites and aircraft in my years that did not look like this at all." The UFO, as it passed overhead, "changed its cadence of light every three or four seconds between 'bursts,'" repeating these changes "for nine seconds before it vanished" among the stars of the constellation Cassiopeia. (USENET report) STRANGE LIGHTS SEEN OVER WASHINGTON STATE On Thursday, July 31, 1997, in Wenatchee, Washington (population 17,257), a small city located 147 miles (236 kilometers) east of Seattle, Krista R. "saw six or seven weird lights over a ridge...They were all grouped together in a mass for about 10 seconds, then two of them split off and zipped around the sky at incredible speed. They were much faster and stranger than any aircraft I have ever seen." Krista "lost sight of those two, but the others continued to hover until, one by one, they descended behind the ridge. They had an odd light that came down and almost illuminated the ground below them like a spotlight." The last light to disappear "moved back and forth," Krista reported. "I looked at it through binoculars, but it was very jumpy. It seemed to leave a red trail that appeared every few seconds. I went inside for a bit, and when I came out, it had moved to above" an aircraft warning tower. (Many thanks to Tim Hagermeister of NACOMM for this report.) UFO SEEN IN NEW ZEALAND On Monday night, August 4, 1997, two men coming out of a building in an industrialized neighborhood of Gisborne, New Zealand saw a UFO "moving slowly through the sky." The witnesses described the object as looking "like a star. It was round and two or three blinding colours." The UFO first appeared in the southern sky and came towards the men, "but not in a straight line and... appeared to be moving too fast to be a satellite." As the object passed directly overhead, "it was then lost in cloud cover." (See the Gisborne, N.Z. Herald for August 5, 1997. Many thanks to Norman Weiss for this news story.) HOVERING LIGHT SETS OFF AIRPORT ALERT IN ROMANIA On Monday, August 4, 1997, at 2 p.m., air traffic controllers at Otopeni Airport in Bucharest, the capital of Romania spied "a light phenomenon" hovering near the runways. Immediately Airport Security forces and troops from a nearby Romanian Army anti-aircraft battalion went on full alert. "A strong light was observed from the tower from 2 p.m. to 3 p.m. The phenomenon was recorded on a supervisory videocamera mounted on the tower's rooftop." Tower staff estimated that the mysterious light hovered 250 meters (825 feet) above the ground. The radar sets in the Otopeni tower showed no trace of any object in that part of the sky. This was Romania's second UFO incident in a week, following the recent incident at Nevelea. (Email Interview) UFOs ACTIVE IN FRANCE On July 22, 1907, at 4 p.m., Jean W. was relaxing on a chaise lounge in his backyard in the seaside village of Sainte Croix sur Mer, near Courseuilles "au bord de La Manche (the English Channel--J.T.) in Normandy. Suddenly, looking to the south, he saw an unusual object "very brilliant with a wing much larger than normal" passing over a nearby tree. "For the most part, it is very rare to see an airplane perform maneuvers here. Also, it (the UFO) appeared to have vertical wings." Jean watched the UFO for several seconds until "the object suddenly became invisible. I was very attentive at that point to what followed, namely, a metallic sphere which elongated and dissipated in the atmosphere, leaving behind a gaseous residue." The objects "remained perfectly silent" during the entire incident. On Monday, August 8, 1997, at 2:20 a.m., M. Didier reached for his 7/50 binoculars, intent on doing some skywatching at his home in Lorraine. As he scanned the stars, he spotted "a strange object...the object resembled a straight line placed in front of something with very large wings." The UFO was "quite luminous" and moved from west to east, taking 12 seconds to cross my binoculars' field of view. I observed it for 25 seconds and then it disappeared. The object was not visible to the naked eye. It traveled from the southwest to the east, at an angle 45 degrees above the horizon. The satellites Astra, Eutelsat and Telecom are only 32 degrees above the horizon," so it could not have been a satellite. Interestingly, M. Didier adds, the following day, August 5, the skies over his hometown were filled with Mirage III-C jet interceptors from "L'Armee de l'Air" or French Air Force. (Merci beaucoup a Thierry Garnier pour ces nouvelles.) UFO HALTS BUS IN CHILE On July 24, 1997, at 12:20 a.m., a bus carrying 42 passengers rumbled southward on the Panamerican Highway in northern Chile. The bus belonged to Buses Fenix Pullman Norte Ltda. and had left Arica at 9:30 p.m. bound for the capital, Santiago de Chile. As the bus neared Cerro Moreno mountain in Antofagasta, a city 880 kilometers (550 miles) north of Santiago, the vehicle suddenly lost all electrical power. "At first we thought the bus's battery had gone dead," Victor Hugo Lizama, a passenger, told local newspaper La Cuarta. "The bus was totally dead. The driver just couldn't get it started. We started looking up in the sky, and we saw four lights, three round ones, and the fourth one was a long cigar shape. All four were changing colors from violet to orange to intense silver-white." "The cigar-shaped object moved, making an L trajectory," Lizama added, "while the three round objects stayed still. A few passengers went to a military base that's in Cerro Moreno and asked about the lights. The guards said they were just weather balloons." A short while later, the lights abruptly disappeared. The driver turned the ignition key again. This time the engine kicked over, and the bus resumed its all-night journey to Santiago. (See the Chilean newspaper La Cuarta for July 25, 1997. Muchas gracias a Luis Sanchez Perry para esas noticias.) BIZARRE ISRAELI SLAYING LINKED TO "ALIENS" Israeli police in the Negev Desert city of Beersheva are investigating a bizarre murder that took place there on July 27, 1997. At 3:30 a.m. that morning, Said Karumi, a Bedouin Arab from Ofakim, a desert town 32 kilometers (20 miles) west of Beersheva, walked into the city's central police station with his infant son in his arms. Pointing to the night sky, Karumi told the officers, "Aliens are after me!" According to Israeli journalist Barry Chamish, Karumi "then exited the police station and walked to a nearby service station where he bought five shekels worth of fuel in a bottle. He continued in to an empty lot, doused himself and his son with the fuel, and ignited both." "Said survived the flames, but his son did not. When police arrived and asked why he had incinerated his son, he just pointed to the sky." According to police, Karumi had never been treated for a psychiatric disorder "nor was he considered mentally unwell by the Ofakim Social Services office." The Negev desert was the site of two "alien encounters" back in October 1996. (Copyright 1997 by Barry Chamish. Many thanks, Barry, for letting UFO ROUNDUP quote from your news story.) PENNSYLVANIA BIGFOOT TRIES TO EVADE SEARCHERS Two men hiking along a mountain creek one miles south of the Susquehanna River in the small town of Nisbet, Pennsylvania (population 125) spotted a Bigfoot on Sunday, August 3, 1997, at 3:30 p.m. Nisbet is on Highway 654 about 105 miles (168 kilometers) northwest of Harrisburg, the state capital. The witnesses described the creature as having "a sort of manlike head but with a full brown-haired body like a gorilla. The air had a foul, rotten-like smell to it. It (the creature) must have been 7 feet (2.1 meters) tall with long arms." "We were just coming around a bend in the creek (Beaver Dam Creek) when we saw something move behind a fallen pine tree," one witness said. "We then proceeded to get a better view as to what we thought was a bear or a deer...It seemed to be kneeling down near the base of the fallen tree. It must have heard our approach because it stood up and turned towards the thick brush up the mountain 20 yards (17 meters) ahead of us and ran in an amount of only 10 or so steps into the brush. The only time we good look at the creature was when it turned around to run." (Many thanks to Scott McNabb for this report.) from the UFO Files... 1909: AIRSHIP RETURNS TO BALCLUTHA, N.Z. (Continuing our look back at the 1909 "airship invasion" of New Zealand, we present another actual news story from the period. Again, many thanks to New Zealand ufologist Murray Bott for these items.) On Tuesday (July 27, 1909) about 10 a.m., Mr. Allan Mitchell, son of J.R. Mitchell, of Lambourne, and Mr. Alex Riach, while working at Lambourne near the mouth of the Pomehaka River, saw high in the air apparently over Messrs. Begg Bros. at Pukepeto a large boat-shaped structure floating in the air. It appeared to be coming straight toward them, and they expected it to come over their heads in the direction of the Blue Mountains. It dipped up and down in the air with an easy motion, and they could see it easily and had a good view of it, the distance being about two and one half miles and pretty high in the air. Their first impressions as to its shape were confirmed. It was distinctly boat-shaped and they could see on the top of it what appeared to be a long pole. It continued with a dipping and ascending motion towards them for some time and then swerved to the left and recrossed the river and headed across by Whitelea and disappeared. (See the Clutha Leader of Balclutha, South Island, N.Z. for July 30, 1909.) FUN UFO WEBSITES For a look at the anomalous object at North Twin Peak, go to http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/marsnews/img/july22.html Look for Photo #82358. Pathfinder's anomalous shadow can be seen at http://www.soltec.net/~mako. PUFORI's copy of Pathfinder photo #81976 can be found at http://www.pufori.org/missions/mpf/images/81976_full.jpg. Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO. It's chock-full of articles, reviews, images and data. Log in at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be read and downloaded at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/ If you're in Amman, the capital of Jordan, tomorrow, join the celebration. King Hussein will be celebrating the 45th anniversary of his accession to the throne. Have fun! We'll be back next Sunday with more saucer news. Here's wishing all our readers a safe, happy and productive week from "the paper that goes home-- UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any item from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the news item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Historical BC Photos From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:30:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:47:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Historical BC Photos > Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 12:09:57 -0400 > From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Historical BC Photos > > Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 10:35:15 -0700 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver) > > Subject: Historical BC Photos > > For your UFO viewing pleasure please find attached two photos that > > have weathered the years.Can you hear me Phil Klass? > Mr. Oliver, > For whatever it's worth, and I don't know whether or not the pictures > are authentic, I had a black Master Frisbee back in the 80's that > looked precisely like the object in those pictures, even more so in the > closeup. In analysis, no supporting lines would be found, and it > would be shown to be a 3-dimentional object in flight. The problem with > the pictures is, you can't tell whether the object is 50 feet across or > 12 inches across like my Frisbee. > Buck OK, everyone who is completely unaware of the ability to manipulate photos by mechanical, optical, or electronic means please stand up. Don't hurt yourselves by rushing. We have plenty of time, rise slowly. What! You are all still sitting? What can this mean? Perhaps there is no real meaning in debating the value of still photos and little meaning in moving images (it does cost a bit more to fabricate moving images.) Perhaps we could consider them incidental evidence, secondary to the testimony of the human witnesses who would vouch for the photos. Now, I am not denouncing the authenticity for all visual evidence. If we look at the full meaning of the first point, we can see that, as easy as it is to fake a photo, it is even easier to falsely claim that it is faked. Sure, show me a photo; say, I could fake that on my computer in less than an hour so it must be a fake... (Whoops, I am starting to feel like Phil Klass.) For me, this kind of reduces visual evidence to a show it to me and I will judge for myself level. While I am beating straw dawgs to death, why is the validity of UFO's dependent on a level of proof from the physical sciences? Are the social sciences some lesser stepchild in the search for truth? What fools must be the many who spend billions studying our buying habits. Buying habits cannot be put in a box and hammered on, so THEY MUST NOT EXIST. How these fools waste their money. And, oh, the urges of a serial killer cannot mounted on a slide and viewed under a microscope. Those investigating them must surely be fanatics and cultist. After all, social sciences are nothing more than the study of loosely collected anecdotes. They must all be phoney. Whoa, I am starting to rant and rave... Somebody stop me... Bye... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:41:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:37:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Date: 10 Aug 97 08:19:07 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Of Martian Cats, etc. >>Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:37:50 -0400 >>From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] >>Subject: Of Martian Cats, &c >>To: UFO UpDates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Hi All, Just some follow-up questions that relate to human psychology in general and not to abductions specifically. Although they might! 1. Is it 'usual' (in other 'delusion' related psychological disorders) involving grand scale hallucinations for the hallucinations to appear in the absence of other problematic personality dysfunctions? In other words, can an otherwise perfectly sane, stable, functional individual have such major (and highly specific) hallucinations without having or displaying other 'problems' in general? Is there anything in the existing literature that discribes such a 'disorder'? 2. How can so many people remember so many of the same details, in the same sequence, involving the same perpetrators? Again, in other words, how can so many be sharing the (same) hallucination? 3. How many hallucinatory or delusional disorders include 'stigmata'? Physical manifestations that appear in conjunction with the hallucination? 4. If so, how then are so many individuals manifesting the same 'stigmata'? ie; scoop marks. Is there another existing form of psychosis that incorporates any of these features? I simply cannot believe that a whole new class of 'psychosis' completely unrelated to any that has been manifested by human kind before, is suddenly running rampant through the worlds population like some highly contageous plague. I worked as a counsellor for more than ten years. I can tell you from experience that when there's something 'wrong' with someone it always manifests in other areas of their personalities and lives. For all intents and purposes I am fine. I'm fairly happy, well adjusted, and self actualizing/ self directed. The only area of my life where anything is (way out of whack) has to do with these sporadic abductions. I have _clear and conscious memories_ relating to these beings (hallucinations if it makes you feel more at ease with it) and I cannot deny those or the memories that have been with me and taunted me to explain them all of my life. My beloved wife and children have marks (fully healed scars and scoop marks) on their bodies that manifested overnight and we're not alone. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of others with identical stories to tell and body marks to show for it. Anyone that has known me for awhile can tell you that I'm not crazy, and neither are an awful lot of the others that are reporting the same thing. I can tell the difference between a real (conscious/awake) event and one that may have transpired solely in my head. We've all experienced waking up only to find out that we are still dreaming. Well abductions aren't like that. Abductions are as real as real. If someone squeezes your nuts too hard you feel it, if it's cold you feel it, the 'pinch factor' is in effect. I'm not experiencing _any other type of psychological oe emotional disorder_ and the 'hallucinations' have never taken ANY other form. (Other than the grey beings and their ships) You may find it of interest that some of my 'hallucinations' have involved multiple witnesses! And, in broad daylight. <HEE-HAW> If anyone can shed some light on any of my inquiries I would appreciate it. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Fwd: Philip Corso From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:42:58 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Philip Corso The following was forwarded to me. FYI Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Philip Corso Date: 97-08-10 17:12:50 EDT From: Markdoggie To: DONFEII Hi, On Compuserve yesterday, Corso's co-author, William J. Birnes, answered a question about whether Corso is fulfilling a long range plan by the Pentagon to gradually de-sensitize the public to the existance of "EBEs" and therefore has not violated any secrecy oaths. Birnes answered: "Somehow I think this argument holds a lot of water. When you realize that no one in the Pentagon or in gov't has stepped forward to challenge Corso's story and that the Pentagon has actually ordered hundreds of copies of the book, as have military bases around the country, you begin to see that the Pentagon may actually be supporting Corso even if only by default. Ex-Army people who worked at the Pentagon have gone on record as saying that there was a special branch of R&D that was created by the Army in 1961 and went out of existence in late 1963, just after Corso retired. Other officers have told the Colonel that they were at the Pentagon after he left and knew that what he was saying actually did happen, although they never thought that anyone would go public about it. So I tend to think that the Colonel is part of the disclosure on a grand, gradual scale." -- William J. Birnes 8/9/97 CSI message #190348 Regards, mm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Historical BC Photos From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:11:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:48:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Historical BC Photos >Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 12:09:57 -0400 >From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: >Mr. Oliver, >For whatever it's worth, and I don't know whether or not the pictures >are authentic, I had a black Master Frisbee back in the 80's that looked >precisely like the object in those pictures, even more so in the >closeup. In analysis, no supporting lines would be found, and it would >be shown to be a 3-dimentional object in flight. The problem with the >pictures is, you can't tell whether the object is 50 feet across or 12 >inches across like my Frisbee. >Buck Buck, Here is a little more for you to read.Did I talk to you last year about a photo you took over one of the Gulf Islands (Saltspring???) Never did receive photo that was to be sent. Bill THE EXAMINATION OF THE PRINTS IN UK AND USA Very wisely indeed, in view of past experience (what a story there is to be told, one day, about the interceptions of UFO photos and UFO reports from the public mails - and all over the world!) Mr. Allan had arranged that the negative of this photograph should remain very firmly in the hands of Mrs. McRoberts herself. APRO had meanwhile passed their prints of the picture to one of their most eminent specialist consultants, Dr. James Harder, who is the Professor of Engineering in the University of California at Berkeley, and he and APRO agreed too that the negative should remain where it was. Here in Britain we passed our copies of the prints to FSR's photographic consultant Mr. Percy Hennell, who is generally regarded as the leading expert in this country in all matters where colour photography is concerned. THE VERDICT ON THE PRINTS After careful scrutiny, Mr. Hennell informs us that he would naturally have preferred to have the actual negative in hand for, as he warns, all kinds of hoaxes are possible, and do occur. Nevertheless, he says that he finds nothing dubious or suspicious about the picture, though he does warn us that, if the picture is indeed genuine, then the disc must have been of enormous size - several hundreds of feet wide - to have shown up so large at such a distance! (There have indeed been frequent reports, over the years, of discs estimated to be of such sizes- indeed in some cases of discs believed to be as much as 1000 ft in diameter, as for example in the confidential report which APRO published a good many years ago, and which they had received direct from the pilot and co-pilot of an American troop-carrying plane which, while en route from Tokyo to South Vietnam with a party of American soldiers, encountered two enormous metallic discs that flew on a parallel course with them for half an hour.) THE VERDICT OF DR. JAMES HARDER We now see, from APRO Bulletin, Vol. 30, No. 12, that Dr. James Harder submitted his report on the photo on November 4, 1982, and they give their own conclusion, which is as follows:- "All this considered, the photo presented here appears to be an excellent and probably genuine photo of a classical disc photographed in daylight. Although unlikely, if further information and clarification is available, it will be presented in a future issue of the Bulletin." In view of the obviously very great interest which this photo will evoke, I take the liberty of quoting in full Dr. Harder's opinion as given in APRO Bulletin Vol. 30, No. 12 - "Generally I feel that the best test of authenticity is in the good reputation of the photographer, insofar as it is impossible to prove a negative - in this case that there is no possibility of a fraud. However, some of the indicators of an authentic photograph can help establish likelihood of an authentic photo. These are - 1. That the negative involved is one of a sequence of outdoor pictures and that the frame in question is not an isolated one. One way of producing a hoax is to re-photograph a positive print onto which has pasted an addition. To do a good job of hoaxing then one would have to re-photograph an entire roll of negative film. 2. That there are no inconsistencies in the lighting of the strange object and the rest of he scene. In the subject photo, I note that the shadows in the lower left of the scene indicate a Sun position nearly behind the camera. There is a reflection on the forward face of the UFO that is consistent with this Sun position. There also seems to be a bright spot under the UFO not connected with external lighting - maybe a light on the UFO. 3. With the right equipment, it is possible to make certain measurements of negative density of the UFO image and of other images of objects at estimated distances from the lens. Here the object is to show that the unknown is not nearby - and thus not a hubcap or other such object thrown into the air. The idea is to measure, from the image of the object at a known distance, the atmospheric 'extinction coefficient'. On a clear day, with a low value, contrasts between dark shadowed areas and brightly lit areas retain their distinction over greater distances. On hazy days, the light and dark areas blend towards a mid-range shade, giving the appearance that distant mountains have of being one shade of grey. Nearby shadows can show their true darkness, as opposed to the lighter shade of distant shadows. But in this picture there are no nearby shadows to serve as a standard, only shadows of trees in the lower left bottom. It has been alleged that edges become fuzzy at greater distances and that this can help distinguish nearby objects from those far away. I know of no theoretical reason for this based on the optical properties of the atmosphere, but will ask Jim Lorenzen if we have a consultant who could be more sure of this. After all, we do take remarkably clear pictures from space with no trouble from edge-blurring of objects on the ground, and that is through 14.7 lbs per square inch of air in the path. So proving authenticity is likely to be elusive, insofar as there is only the evidence of internal consistency to go on. I wish I could be more positive, but then there is so much evidence of other sorts for the reality of UFOs that we shouldn't have to add to it excepting for those who are beyond believing anyway." POSTSCRIPT In a further letter from Mr. W. K. Allan, he comments on Dr. Harder's reference to the fact that Mrs. McRoberts photo is one of a sequence of outdoor pictures, and says: "It is unfortunate that the importance of keeping the individual exposures on the roll unseparated was not fully realized, but when I saw the negative it was still unseparated from one of the family snaps." With regard to the lady who took the photograph of this UFO, Mr. Allan goes on to say: "What is of great importance to me is the fact that Hannah McRoberts is the niece of one of Canada's leading nuclear engineers, a man in charge of a multi-billion dollar electrical generating complex, whom I have known continuously since his attendance in my class at Western Canada High School in Calgary, Alberta." Nota Bene: For further information and analysis of this photograph, see the paper "A Scientifically Based Analysis of an Alleged UFO Photograph" by Richard F. Haines, Ph.D., in the MUFON 1986 UFO Symposium Proceedings, pp. 111-129.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Prevarications and Kal Korff From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:40:47 -0400 Subject: Prevarications and Kal Korff For the last several days (writing 8/10/97) I have been looking for response on the fact that skeptic Kal Korff went on the Art Bell radio program and admitted to telling an "untruth" in regards to claiming that Bell forced radio stations to not allow Korff on their station shows or he would pull his show from the offending stations. I have not been a big fan of Bell since this past year with his programs featuring the likes of Ed Dames, Lee Shargel, Courtney Brown and their wild claims and Bell's refusing to challenge the same. A lot of things have been laid at Bell's doorstep because of his refusal. Now this. With Korffs constant claims of being a skeptical and rational UFOlogist (and God knows we need more of them) and his propensity for pointing fingers at folks like Jim Dillettoso (and his non existant PHD degree) and the alledged blunders of people like the now deceased Lt. Col. Jesse Marcel, I found it ironic that now Korff has been FORCED (with a possible legal suit hanging over him for liable and slander) to admit he was untruthful in his claims against Art Bell. Bell then chewed him out on the air admonishing him on how the truth always works much better. One does not have to apologize with the truth. (That is right Art, excellent point.) But I can not have been the only one to have heard this broadcast, can I? As much as Korff has inflamed this List, I thought for sure there would have been discussions on this. When a pro-UFO proponent is caught in a blunder the fire rages, now we have a skeptic (or some might claim a debunker) with his shorts lowered. I will now be much more skeptical with Mr. Korff when he spouts off, and re-read what he writes in any new tomes he may get published. Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 PROJECT-1947: EM Effects catalog update From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@IX.NETCOM.COM> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:25:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:52:39 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947: EM Effects catalog update All of the material from Jan's trip to CUFOS has been added to the catalog at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/47emecat.htm The only material not added is Keith Basterfield / Paul Jackson's Prelim catalog of Australian Vehicle Interference cases, since that is quite large and probably overlaps significantly with cases already in the catalog. The catalog material also provided case information for an Italian case with occupants in a domed object, which is now in my correlated catalog at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ufocorr.htm Thanks to Jan [Aldridge] for getting all of this stuff for us! ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 1947-1950 Info. needed From: Soccorro64@aol.com [Christopher W. Pittman] Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 21:00:37 -0400 Subject: 1947-1950 Info. needed Dear Colleagues, Since June, 1996 I have been working on an exhaustive project involving UFOs in Massachusetts. I have found almost 800 reports from the period 1638-1969, and I am now attempting to write a complete summary of the accounts. I am trying to find people willing to help me fill in some of the gaps in the data. In many instances, I know that a sighting was reported in Mass. on a particular date in a particular town, but I am unable to find any details. This is especially true with regard to 1947- 1950, but I am also missing plenty from 1950-1969. I would like to find someone with the rare REPORT ON THE UFO WAVE OF 1947, and/or any other vintage sighting catalogs. I would also greatly appreciate ANY other information on Mass. sightings before 1969, including newspaper clippings, magazine articles, personal accounts, etc. Please contact me through E-mail if you can be of any assistance. Thank you for reading this. Sincerely, Christopher W. Pittman MA State Associate Director MUFON- Mutual UFO Network
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff. From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca] Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 21:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 22:02:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff. From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:40:47 -0400 Subject: Prevarications and Kal Korff > But I can not have been the only one to have heard this broadcast, can > I? I certainly followed it very closely. But what's the point of talking about it? Korff misrepresented the facts -- well, that's not really true -- he lied. You danced around that word in your message, and I tried to dance around it as well. While Korff didn't use the term "lie" he did say: "Everything I said about Mr. Art Bell was completely untrue and false. I retract everything entirely and further apologize to not only Mr. Bell but the CBC Radio Network, and the affiliates mentioned -- KFYI in Phoenix, KOMO and KVI in Seattle." Art Bell then said something about everything being totally false and Korff replied: "Yes, there is no evidence at all and none of it held up and you deserve an apology Mr. Bell." End of statement. I find it interesting that Kal did not manage to say the words "my book" anywhere in the brief statement. > As much as Korff has inflamed this List, I thought for sure there > would have been discussions on this. When a pro-UFO proponent is > caught in a blunder the fire rages, now we have a skeptic (or some > might claim a debunker) with his shorts lowered. I will now be much more > skeptical with Mr. Korff when he spouts off, and re-read what he writes > in any new tomes he may get published. Good things to practice anyway, but I agree with you. As a peer group I guess we could shun Korff, but haven't we been doing that anyway? Rebecca Who happens to STILL be waiting for the pictures of the smoke from the Arizona Flares that Kal claims to have.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Fwd: Philip Corso From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 03:21:53 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 22:12:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Fwd: Philip Corso >From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:32:24 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Fwd: Philip Corso >The following was forwarded to me. FYI >Don Ecker >UFO Magazine >www.ufomagazine.com >Forwarded message: >Subj: Re: Philip Corso >Date: 97-08-10 17:12:50 EDT >From: Markdoggie >To: DONFEII >On Compuserve yesterday, Corso's co-author, William J. Birnes, >answered a question about whether Corso is fulfilling a long >range plan by the Pentagon to gradually de-sensitize the public >to the existance of "EBEs" and therefore has not violated any >secrecy oaths. Birnes answered: >"Somehow I think this argument holds a lot of water. When you >realize that no one in the Pentagon or in gov't has stepped >forward to challenge Corso's story and that the Pentagon has >actually ordered hundreds of copies of the book, as have >military bases around the country, you begin to see that the >Pentagon may actually be supporting Corso even if only by >default. Ex-Army people who worked at the Pentagon have gone >on record as saying that there was a special branch of R&D >that was created by the Army in 1961 and went out of >existence in late 1963, just after Corso retired. Other >officers have told the Colonel that they were at the Pentagon >after he left and knew that what he was saying actually did >happen, although they never thought that anyone would go >public about it. So I tend to think that the Colonel is part >of the disclosure on a grand, gradual scale." First of all, I'd like to know who these officers were. Then I'd like to add something that most ufologists forget time and again. That is that secrecy is always compartmentalized. This means that a secret is shared by only a few, otherwise it would not be a secret. That, and the fact that almost all Pentagon employees were not around in the early sixties, suggests another and more important reason for the hundreds of copies that were ordered by the Pentagon: they want to know themselves what the hell went on. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 03:21:55 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 22:55:55 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:17:10 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. Philip Corso >> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:03:55 -0500 (CDT) >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. >> Philip Corso >> >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:06:18 -0700 (PDT) >> >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> >Subject: Re: Col. Corso and Discussions by Stacy & Alevy >> >It's taken me too long to get around to reading Corso's book, but now that >> >I've done so, I must say I side with Gary Alevy on this. I couldn't find >> >any statement saying that Jesse Marcel had been at the crash site where >> >the UFO & alien bodies had been found. >> Dear Jim: >> You, sir, are an apologist. You would apologize for Pol Pot if it could be >> demonstrated that he had had (or just claimed to have had) a UFO encounter >> at some point in his life. (And, hey, how do we know he didn't?) >Did anyone on the List hear the Art Bell show a month or so ago when he >had Philip Corso on; was he asked by a caller about this statement >regarding Marcel and admit he had been mistaken? Hi Jim, I heard the show and Corso had so much to tell that there wasn't any time for callers. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 21:55:59 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:06:11 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:17:10 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. Philip Corso >> Check out the top of page 17 (or did you make it that far?): there's Marcel >> at the crash site -- with bodies. Now, turn the page, that's right, to page >> 18, and tell the list what you see here. Not only is Marcel still at the >> crash site, we even get two paragraphs of quotes from him. >OK, you caught me there, Dennis. This was in the section where, as Gary >has pointed out, the authors had to fill in what Corso had had no >knowledge about, and it appears that Birnes took the liberty of inventing >a Hollywood-like movie script there. But since you don't like apologies >or apologists, I'll admit only to the fact that you're not *always* wrong. More malarkey and apology, Jim. Would Birnes's Hollywood script also include the alien shot dead? Then where does Hollywood leave off in this book and reality begin? The "fact" is Corso claims to have been working with official military Roswell records. If that were really the case, isn't it conceivable that Marcel himself would have written many, if not all, of those reports? Given that the official records were in the file cabinet or accessible to him, why in God's name would Corso have to rely on anything else? Why go to firefighter Dwyer's account of events when he would have had the official reports? Why would there be _any_ confusion, to cite but one example, about the number of bodies recovered and where and when? Couldn't the Army count to ten and find their ass with both hands? It's fiction, Jim. Grow up, get a life. And stop listening to Art Bell for reliable information. >Did anyone on the List hear the Art Bell show a month or so ago when he >had Philip Corso on; was he asked by a caller about this statement >regarding Marcel and admit he had been mistaken? Wouldn't surprise me at all. If other pertinent, specific questions had been asked, they would probably have been admitted as mistakes as well. Too bad Art himself isn't the one to ask those questions, eh? Credit Corso one point for honesty, though. >Here you are probably referring to the Corso book manuscript. If it were >significantly different from the book itself, and he were to release it, >that could well violate some provision of his contract with the publisher, >Pocket Books, unless they were to approve. And they're not likely to if >they altered things very much. You see what I mean about you being an unabashed apologist, Jim? >It does seem unlikely that Birnes would do so, since he'd have nothing to >gain but quite possibly some credibility to lose. Ditto. And yes, that's the whole point, isn't it? >Getting back to Corso's book, if others on this List haven't yet acquired >it, I'd urge them to do so, as it does give a very important and >particular insider's military view of the Roswell coverup. And please >feel free to report here whatever new insights it may inspire; don't let >Dennis's tendency to rant against any positive reports deter you. > Jim Deardorff Jim: This is email, fer Gawd's sakes. Do you think anything I say here is going to deter anyone from doing anything, when there's nothing I can say that would change a single one of your addle-headed opinions? Roswell may well have happened as its Rooters describe, or some variation thereof. That would not change the fact, however, that Corso's book is a self-evident fiction on its face (damned by its own internal "evidence" and lack of logic, not to mention rewriting of terrestrial history), designed to deceive the gullible in the interests of selling 80,000 hardback copies at $24.95 each, with a movie deal hopefully thrown in for good measure. It also demeans a number of good people who are no longer around to defend themselves, not to mention the thousands, if not millions, who "deludedly" died fighting Communism while the aliens were allegedly the real enemy. It is a travesty, and that's putting it politely. If you had been on the Art Bell show live with Corso you wouldn't have asked one single question that would have gotten to the heart of the matter as to whether or not Corso was telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. You would have instead genuflected, kissed his spit-shined shoes, and apologized for any mistakes he may have made. I just hope he doesn't spend your money on piffles like ice-cream, but in the end it won''t really matter what he spends it for, will it? It's his now. Or at least half of it is. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Resolving a Case of Mistaken Identity From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:10:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 00:20:12 -0400 Subject: Resolving a Case of Mistaken Identity Resolving a Case of Mistaken Identity On Friday night August 8 I posted "Evaluating UFO Scenarios Using Counterintelligence" part 4a of UFOSearch essay #9: Science, Counterintelligence and UFOs. When I opened my email box on August 10 I found this preface to the essay by our list administrator. [It has been brought to my attention that 'Val German' is, in all probability, aka 'Val Valerian', aka 'John Grace', formerly associated with John Lear. The following should be read with that information in mind - ebk] As I had not been contacted regarding this question of Val Germann being confused with John Grace and Val Valerian prior to release of the essay to the list I had no opportunity to address this issue and prevent this potentially embarrassing situation. I would like to point out the following: 1 - Val Germann is not John Grace, Val Valerian or Val Valarian, nor has he written under those names. If you wish to locate or speak with Val Germann he can be located by looking in internet directories and or phonebooks and contacting Mr. Germann. This is how I initially contacted him. A search of internet directories will also show that John Grace has a website and address and phone number where he can be reached in different state. Val Valerian/Val Valarian is to my understanding either a psuedonym used by John Grace or an unknown individual. This name has been associated with a 1950s contactee and has also been said to be the name of a alien visiting this planet, writing in his own name. 2 - I was disappointed to see the essay prefaced with remarks that could give the impression of disparaging the author and the Science, Counterintelligence and UFOs series in the eyes of the readership of the list. I wish that the the article could have been held for posting while fact checking was done; I was not contacted, nor was the author. 3 - It is also unfortunate that the archived version of the article contains the remarks in question and they may prove difficult to remove. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: UFOSearch #9 part 4b/4: UFO Scenario Analysis From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:17:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 00:27:51 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOSearch #9 part 4b/4: UFO Scenario Analysis This is part 4b of the fourth part of the ninth essay by UFOSearch. Part four consists of four sections designated 4a, 4b, 4c and 4d. This essay is being published for the first time on the UFO UpDate mail list. NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. If you would like to correspond with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com Commentary: The author of these essays has been misidentified. I feel this may be an important issue for readers of these essays. So I have asked the author to respond: Gary Alevy Val Germann = Val Valerian? NOT! Val Germann Back in the late 1980s I was sent some material from an organization called "The Nevada Aerial Research Group," (NARG) whose head honcho was a guy named John Grace, who, I am informed, is a real person, who used to live in Nevada and maybe still does. That is about the extent of my knowledge of Mr. Grace other than that he appears to reside at the far right of the political spectrum in the United States and believes in so-called conspiracy theories that would make a Turk blanch. Oh, well. As I perused the "NARG" material I noticed that Mr. Grace was sometimes said to write under the name of "Val Valerian," the name of a 1950's contactee, or actual alien, some said, who was ensconced in the Pentagon! Oh, well. Years later, when I began posting to UseNet, I wondered if anyone would bring up this "similiarity" in names. No one did. Then last year I was informed that in Volume III of Jerome Clark's UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA I was IDENTIFIED with John Grace and Val Valerian, that is, my name was said to be another pseudonym for Mr. Grace. I have tried to correct this impression by writing to the publisher of the ENCYCLOPEDIA, with what result I do not know. Though some of what I have written may in some elements resemble the output of Mr. Grace and NARG, I think that any objective look at what I have written will clearly show a vast difference. But this is, after all, the UFO arena and the standards of scholar- ship are, shall we say, not what they could be. Oh, well. Few of us are getting paid for doing what we are doing and mistakes are going to get made. It's a tempest in a teapot. If you are reading these words you likely have a computer with a Web "Who Is" search engine. Put my name in the hopper: Valentine H. Germann. There are two of us in the United States, myself and my father, who lives in Waverly, Missouri. I live in Columbia, Missouri and you can read my phone number right off your screen. If you like, you can call me up and talk to me. I will probably answer most of your questions (if they are anywhere near reasonable) and will likely be polite as well, although when I called the administrator of this list the other day I have to admit that I WAS less than polite, though I called back later in a more tractable mood! It was because of that little note. At the top of part 4a of my "Counterintelligence" series, which appeared on August 8th, the list administrator had put a little note repeating the ENCYCLOPEDIA error, which was not garnered from the book but by word of mouth, and stating that my work was to be judged "with that in mind," or some such. I wonder who notified the list administrator of this information, which is not exactly highlighted in the ENCYCLOPEDIA? I myself would hate to guess "in public" because I could be wrong. Some people say that there is no such thing as bad publicity, and there is a grain of truth in that. At one level it is much better to be thought of as "an associate of John Lear" rather than what I am, some guy from Missouri. If a big enough brouhaha could be made over the Lear issue, and if Mr. Lear could be dragged into the fray, well, that would be very good for me, at one level. What I mean is, more people might wind up reading what I have written as a result of it being "associated" with John Lear rather than it being the mere scribblings of some nobody from one of the nation's backwaters. On the other hand, I am not John Grace and never have been. And I do not know or "associate" with Mr. Lear, though I do admire him for what he has done. So, let the record be straightened, Valentine H. Germann of Columbia, Missouri is NOT John Grace of somewhere out west, wherever. And that's an end to that. For awhile I thought about remaining silent on this issue and letting it go where it might. It was sort of interesting being called an associate of John Lear; it had sort of a cachet. But it's not correct and Mr. Lear could swiftly set the record straight, which would be his perfect right. So, you'll have to go ahead and read the series with the sad knowledge that the work is independent of any of the "big hitters" in ufology, even if these big hitters are from Mr. Clark's "Dark Side." At the end of the day none of this is very important. That is, those who CAN do are going to DO what they are going to do, regardless of what anyone says. Though the sun may be shining on Mr. Clark's side of the ufological street, it has been raining pretty steadily on mine. Valentine H. Germann Columbia, Missouri August 9, 1997 The following summarizes the titles and parts of the essay released so far: UFOSearch essay #9: Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Part One - Abstract and Introduction Part Two - Counterintelligence And UFO Analysis Part Three - The Counterintelligence Use Of Research And Analysis In Small-Scale UFO Investigations Part Four 4a - Evaluating UFO Scenarios Using Counterintelligence 4b - UFO Scenario Analysis: THE KEYHOE SCENARIO 4c - The Lear Scenario And UFO History 4d - The Streiber Scenario and The Future of The UFO -------------------------------------------------------------- Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Val Germann Columbia, Missouri (C) 1997 Part 4b of Four UFO Scenario Analysis: THE KEYHOE SCENARIO In the final three segments of this paper I will analyze three different scenarios which purport to explain aspects of the UFO phenomenon. They are: 1) THE KEYHOE SCENARIO, in which "others" from another solar system are here because they may need the Earth as a new home due to problems with their current planet. 2) THE LEAR SCENARIO, in which a number of groups of "others" are here, some with special needs, which elements of our elites have proceeded to meet under the rubric of a "secret deal," a deal involving the abduction of and experimentation upon U.S. citizens. In addition, this "deal" has lately gone bad and led to friction and even violence between our "dealers" and "them." 3) THE STRIEBER SCENARIO, in which the "visitors" are here to help us, to transform us, up to a new level of consciousness as we prepare to take our place in galactic civilization. Why have I selected these scenarios? Well, because if true they would mean major future changes in human attitudes and culture. For this reason I care about whether or not these scenarios have any basis in actual fact. You see, if it is true that UFOs are here only to fly around at night amazing human beings, just for the sheer entertainment value of it, well, I don't care about that, even if it's true. Indeed, if "others" with incomprehensible technology are here merely to engage human curiosity, well, that's just OK with me, more power to them. But if you have even minimal brain function you must realize that the chances of this being true are a million to one against. It is much more likely that these "others" are here for a reason, probably a very important one. Either that or they have resources to throw away on pointless exercises on other planets or in other dimensions, or whatever. Does any of that make sense? No, not on any level. In looking at these three scenarios we will keep in mind that much of what we see might NOT be what it appears to be. This unfortunate state of affairs is often encountered when leaks and counter-leaks are in use and the meaning sort of up for grabs. In such environments the leakers intended meaning has probably not gotten through without distortion, if only the distortion of repeated telling. This is so because, like the Manhattan Project, the core of any government UFO program is likely to be verbal and very few genuine "smoking documents" actually exist. This does not mean, however, that the contents of any particular "leaked" document are false, not at all. I simply mean that any such document is likely to be a very, very good forgery produced for a very good reason. We'll come back to this later. In UFO scenario analysis we have to go with what we have culled from the public record, with what we have developed on our own through local field research, and on what others around the country are willing to tell us about what they believe to be going on today. Using all of this information the investigator hopes to come up with a scenario or an evaluation based on "fact," or on deductions that can reasonably be made from fact. But we must never forget that things can deteriorate rapidly when we are dealing with the UFO. THE KEYHOE SCENARIO In early 1953, just as the Robertson Panel was beginning a "final solution" to the UFO problem, Donald Keyhoe was given a report, or an analysis, by his source in the Pentagon, Al Chop, who later was to be a NASA official spokesman. The report was said to have been authored by an Air Force "intelligence Colonel," named O'Dell, who Keyhoe professes to know, or at least know of. The document was "cleared" Chop says and Keyhoe is invited to show it to various editors in hopes of getting it published. The proviso was the Colonel's name and rank could not be mentioned. Thus, this scenario is based on what I call an "official leak," that is, a leak promulgated by "authority," or at least one branch of it. You see, in any large organization under stress there are those who don't like the program, who have lost the internal battle and yet feel mistakes have been made. In such cases the last ditch weapon of the bureaucratic loser is the leak (to friendly members of the press or to other arms of government) of damaging or interesting information, in hopes of influencing events within the bureaucracy through external pressure, pressure brought about due to the leak. You might consider the Watergate-era source now called "deep throat," who was no doubt a composite of several people, all of whom were upset with then-current government policy but not in a position to do anything about it. . .at least in the open. Then, of course, there is also the "official leak" that is put out by the bureaucratic winner, both to vitiate and undermine the other "official leak," the one put out by the insider losers, and to bolster the winner's case with outside power interests. It's an interesting game inside the Beltway, leak and counterleak. Such things happen every day and it is very difficult to sift the wheat from the chaff. Consideration of this problem can lead to a "theory of leaks" that might be of considerable value to anyone trying to evaluate UFO scenarios, as we will soon be doing. Let us assume for the sake of discussion that there really is a great secret behind the "UFO" and the U.S. government has more than just some information about it. That is, let's assume that the "UFO Program" has some real dimension and involves at least several hundred people. Finally, let's assume that the first people to "figure out" what was going on were based somewhere within the USA's intelligence apparatus and that they received some assistance from our nation's scientific and academic worlds. Given the above, the UFO information would have at some point been reported up the information chain which, as we have seen, includes representatives of our moneyed elites, who always seem to exist in government. What would have happened next? Well, as Ruppelt reports in his book, by the early 1950s the Air Force had briefed many "great men" of science and industry on the UFO problem. [49] Also, we know now that an absolute hotbed of UFO activity was Latin America, where Nelson Rockefeller had his own private intelligence network during World War II. It seems more than possible that by 1950 or so quite serious scientific and intelligence work had already been done on UFOs (in secret) and that numerous of our real decision makers were fully informed. The next step would have been a decision, as to how to proceed, that is, who to inform and who not to inform. This is strongly implied by what I call "the first crackdown," which is also spoken of by Ruppelt in his book. [50] That is, the UFO was to continue to be a "Top Secret," or even above. So, we are almost ready to begin looking at The Keyhoe Scenario. All we have to do is review the tools we have at our disposal, the fruits of a great deal of research & analysis of the UFO: 1) A wide-ranging picture of the UFO arena, one reaching back into the last century (at least) and including follow-ups into more mundane subjects and sections of our culture and society. Some 500 books have been read to build up this picture, as well as hundreds of magazine and journal articles. This work has taken five years and resulted in hundreds of pages of notes. 2) An extensive chronology, reaching back as far as relevant data could be collected, to several thousand years before the current era. However, this chronology is most detailed for the period beginning in about 1890, and includes the world-wide Airship Flap of 1896-1914, the "ghost squadrons" of the 1930s and numerous and very modern-sounding "UFO sightings" over the same time period. 3) The results of several local investigations, a couple of which have returned some spectacular results. The implication of these investigations has been that the "UFO Phenomenon" is very deeply embedded into the people of the United States. A mere modicum of effort has brought first-person reports from all directions, some of them genuinely frightening and delivered by frightened people, some of them neighbors. Then, of course, there is the fact that this investigator himself has been a UFO witness, and on more than one occasion. This has tended to focus his attention. 4) The beginnings of a theory as to how the UFO would be handled by our government, our intelligence community and by our social and cultural elites. That is, history has shown that something of this importance would have been kept from the mass of us, who would have been misinformed, disinformed and generally shut out of the information flow. As part of this effort multiple cover stories would have been put into play, only in part to confuse the public. Many of those on the inside would have been given cover stories as well, as was done in the Manhattan Project, where only a few had direct information as to what was actually taking place. Here begins "the wilderness of mirrors" that those of us in counterintelligence usually face. But we also have R&A. So, let's move on to Keyhoe and his 1953 scenario, one that I will call, for soon-to-be-obvious reasons, "Planet Earth, Host To Extraterrestrial Life." The technique I will use will be to quote sections of Keyhoe and then respond to them in a bracketed paragraph set into the text. I have found this to be very effective in scenario analysis, the "stream of conscious- ness" dimension sometimes allowing new associations to come to the fore, as if from nowhere. Keyhoe, it turns out, can be an oracular device, if you have some R&A experience. Before we begin let me make a few clarifications. Al Chop I have already mentioned. Keyhoe is writing about what happened to him early in 1953, just after the aforementioned Robertson Committee had met, though no one knew of it at the time. The "Utah Film" was spectacular, taken by a military photographer, and to this day has never been seen in its entirety by the public, even though people like Ruppelt spent a lot of effort trying to get that done. A "PIO" was a Public Information Officer. "Riordan" was a fighter pilot friend of the Major's. Once again, my comments will be inside brackets [ ], Keyhoe's text inside quotation marks. Here we go. Begin Scenario [51]: "Reaching into a desk drawer, he brought out a manila folder. As he opened it, I saw several typed pages. "This script," he said carefully, "has been approved for publication--on one condition. I'll tell you what it is after you read it." "He handed me the pages and I looked at the title: *** Planet Earth--Host To Extraterrestrial Life *** "I stared at Al, then read the beginning. The key paragraph repeated a statement which several scientists had made: In some far-off future, when the earth cools or our sun expands, Man's only chance for survival will be escape to another planet. This situation, the script went on, can be expected on any inhabited planet. "Then one line seemed to leap from the page: "'Granted that superintelligents in another solar system are looking for a suitable planet for a second home, why would earth be singled out?'" "I looked at Al in amazement. "This is dynamite. You means the Air Force wants this made public?" "It's not an official statement," he said quickly. "Then what is it?" "It's one person's opinion--a man named W.C. Odell." "Not Colonel Odell, in Intelligence"" "Well--yes. But his Air Force connection can't be used on the by-line." "You'll never keep it secret, if this gets into print. The boys in the press will dig it up. When that hits the wires, it'll raise holy hell." [Yes, exactly, that's exactly what would have happened. Except this particular leak did not get into print until Keyhoe's book came out. That is, the Robertson Committee counterattack killed any chance of this scenario "hitting the wires" in the months that immediately followed the decision of that panel. (52)] "The Air Force would say it was simply one man's opinion." "But an Intelligence colonel!" Why take the risk--now!" [What was so stressful about "now?" Well, it was because the year 1952 had seen the rise of near panic within some of the uniformed military due to the Washington, D.C. sighting wave. The Air Force had calmed the public down but many on the inside knew better. Keyhoe was alert to the fact that this scenario would resonate most strongly not with the public but with many on the inside, who were looking for an end to the secrecy or at least something to hold onto. (53)] "Odell has the right to express a personal opinion, if it doesn't violate security." "For heaven's sake, Al! You know what this means. If this invasion idea gets out after you show the Utah film--" "It won't be published then, no magazine could get it on the stands that quick." "You think they'd sit on it that long? The minute the Utah story breaks out, they'd resell it to a wire service, with joint credit." "Al was silent. "You want me to show this to TRUE Magazine--is that it?" "Yes, or any other magazine you write for. But make sure it is clear that Odell's Air Force rank can't be used." [What is the purpose here? Why do some on the inside want this "explanation" out? For the public? I don't think so. I think this was really aimed at those close to the secret but not in possession of the truth. Ruppelt and Keyhoe both implied that some of these people were VERY upset about the UFO program and the threat was that these people would leak. So, how to stop some of them? Well, you could put yet another story into the bodyguard of lies around the UFO, and Keyhoe is the vehicle. He has credibility and contacts and what he says and writes has impact within the bureaucracy. Under my self-generated rubric, if a leak is mainly for internal consumption, I call it a "tactical leak." But if goes farther, out into the public realm, I call it "strategic." This is an example of a strategic leak.] "Look, Al, I've got to know what's back of this. Does the Air Force want it out as one of the possible answers?" [Sure, Don, that's what they want! But think about it, who would REALLY pay attention to this scenario? Well, I know who, someone who had a little information and was worried about what he had found out or been told, and wished to hell he knew more because he didn't like the implications of what he knew!] "Al shook his head. "I told you it was just one man's idea. Security Review passed it. That's all I know. He put the script in an envelope, along with the February cases he'd cleared. "Show it to your editors, and let me know their reactions as soon as you can." I went out, still astonished. Even if Al were telling the truth, it was incredible that Colonel Odell's suggestion should be made public now. On the face of it, the Air Force was throwing caution to the winds. But knowing the fight against even the film showing, I couldn't believe it. There must be some other answer. [Yes, Don, there was another answer, one I think you probably knew but were in no position to reveal! That is, the bodyguard of lies needed some reinforcement, not that this story was simply a lie, not at all! The implications are awesome, are they not! I think so. In some ways this account is more explosive than the so-called Lear Letters. For instance, does the word "visitor" fit in with the probable intentions of the entities under consideration here? I don't think so, do you?] Stopping under a corridor light, I read over the entire script. It was quietly written, the invasion suggestions sandwiched between discussions of space travel and astronomy. There was no hint of a violent occupation of the earth. But nothing could reduce the impact of Odell's suggestion. If he were right, unknown beings from a dying planet were considering the earth as a possible haven--a new home in which to perpetuate their race. Possibly, as Odell said, the long survey would prove our world was not suitable. Otherwise, Planet Earth might become--willingly or no--a "host to extraterrestrial life." [Yes, indeed, here we are. Let us suppose that some very strange rumors were circulating within the "UFO program," within our military and intelligence agencies. Let us further suppose that these rumors were shaking the faith of some "in on" parts of the real story. They were wavering, in danger of breaking their sworn oaths and going public, out of concern for the general public, the mass of humanity, or even worry about their jobs.] [They needed some strokes, something they could hold onto and would allow them to sleep. "Ah, yes," the wavering insiders might have said after reading this, "Here it is!. These "others," that we KNOW are here (and doing things we can't figure out), are actually here because they are weak and dying. If we are "helping" them it's only out of pity and consideration for another life form and civilization. And there is no immediate threat, nothing to really worry about, nothing for me to go to the wall about! Wow, am I glad of that!" I think this could have going on back in the early 1950s.] "On the way to the airport, I thought over Odell's suggestion. The mass migration idea wasn't new--it had been used in dozens of stories and plays. But I'd never taken it seriously; moving any large number of people from a distant planet seemed impossible. [And still does. But, of course, there are other ways to crank up population in a faraway place, aren't there? Genetic ways.] "Of course, it could be done gradually, over a period of time. Even then, the problems seemed enormous, though they might not be barriers to a race which had long ago mastered space travel. [And it could take quite a while using "genetic" methods, too, and it would take large resources, which you probably could not bring with you. But you might get them from the folks on the scene, might you not -- especially for an emolument?] "How would Man, in some far-distant age, go about migrating to another planet? "In that far-distant time, Man would certainly have mastered interstellar flight. Long before the earth becomes unbearably hot or cold, our descendants would begin to look for a new home in the universe. "Since no solar system planet has a climate like earth's, the nearest star systems would be explored first. Perhaps a twin to the Earth will be found; if not, the explorers would search farther and farther. "During a long exploration more than one earth "twin" might be found. If the nearest one were inhabited, our descendants might choose a more distant planet, especially if the planet race were strong enough to resist invasion. [Or didn't have the right genetic "mix" to help us out!] "Once an Earth II was selected, bases would be set up and an occupation force gradually brought in. [Would we tell the "natives" what we were doing, if what we were doing would involve the paving of the place and the building of a Howard Johnson at every InterState exit?] "On a planet similar to this, evolution probably would have produced fish and fowl, also animals which the colonists could domesticate. If not, small numbers could be brought in to start such life. [Or, more likely, genetically create or re-create such life!] "Even with giant space ships, moving most of the earth's population would be impossible. At first, probably, migration would be limited to technicians, builders, defense forces and their families. It might take hundreds of years for Earth II to be fully occupied. Migration might be voluntary, but probably it would be restricted to younger age groups--except for key scientists and various experts. [Yes, they would be the ones who would set up the reproduction facilities and negotiate with the local population, who would supply energy and material in sufficient quantity to get the job done. Of course, you would not TELL the locals what you were actually doing, and you would give them a few trinkets, telling them more might be coming if they cooperated. The best way to keep a secret is to pretend to share one, so said Allen Dulles!] "But if the planet were inhabited, a different plan would be used. The choice of such a planet might be forced on the Earthlings; it might be the only one on which they might survive. Or it could be a cynically deliberate choice--the homes, industries, farms and mineral supplies of the planet race might be short cuts to colonization. [I rather think "would be" can be substituted for "might be."] "Either way, the fate of the planet's inhabitants would depend on the character of future man. By then, a wiser human race may have outlawed war, or they may have degenerated into scientific barbarians. [Of course, we are super-civilized today and our elites' motives vis-a-vis our own population and that of the rest of the planet are as pure as the driven snow, are they not? Well, maybe, but there are the continuing revelations about the radiation experiments and nuclear testing outrages that date from the same time period we are dealing with here -- the early 1950s. But, of course, nothing like that could be taking place today, right?] "If our descendants were peaceful, they could suggest a friendly coexistence to the planet race: the earth's scientific advancement might be held out as an inducement. [Yes, folks, the year is 1953 but elements of the Lear Scenario were in the mind of someone in the Air Force, weren't they?] "But if future Man is a cruel materialist, he would take one of two steps: 1) Destroy the inhabitants and take over their world. 2) Conquer them and use the captive race as forced labor. [Well, Don, that's not ALL they could do. Much worse is quite possible if one takes the time to think about it. ] "Even if the earthlings desire peaceful occupation, it might not succeed. A race too weak to resist would be no problem but an advanced race might fight. If the planet were the only possible choice for Earth II, our descendants would probably have to use force if reason failed. Once in control, they might persuade the inhabitants to cooperate in exchange for their freedom. [What an awesome imagination this "Air Force" Colonel had back in the early 1950s. Just awesome. Or perhaps was something more than simple "imagination" involved? It's worth a thought.] "When I went into the airport terminal, there was no sign of Riordan. He came in a few minutes later, as I was leaving the American Airlines counter. We went up to the deserted mezzanine section and I told him about Colonel Odell's migration answer. "Good Lord!" Riordan said. "Does the Air Force really believe that?" "I don't think so, but I'm puzzled at their letting Odell say it." [This, of course, is exactly the proper response and a question that Keyhoe does not really answer to my satisfaction, perhaps because if he did he might have to think about what HIS role was in all of this! Was Keyhoe the knowing last link in a chain?] "Riordan skipped through the typescript, pausing at the key points. "It's fantastic," he muttered, "If an Intelligence colonel hadn't written it--" he stopped. "There's one thing for sure, if any other race tried to muscle in here, there'd be one hell of a fight." "It would depend on their weapons--" "We'd fight anyway," Riordan said. "I can't see Americans--or the rest of the world, either--letting themselves be pushed off onto reservations like the Indians. They'd have to finish us off before they could settle here." [Yes, indeed, so they would. . .wouldn't they? But maybe not, especially as "we" didn't find out before it was too late and those providing the resources to these "others" had their spots in the new regime all lined up in advance! At that point "we" would become expendable and would be expended, if only to make room for the New Earthers, who would live happily ever after in blessed Communion with the descendants of those humans who had helped the settlers-to-be so much! Interesting, is it not?] "I still think one of the other answers is more likely. But even if it's true, it doesn't mean they've definitely decided on the Earth. They may be considering some other planet. They might have trouble with our atmosphere; if they find they can't adjust they might give up. There could be a dozen reasons why they'd have trouble settling here." [Yes, exactly, it would take quite a while to find out if the genetic engineering was going to work. It might take a decade. It might take a century. But most likely it would take a lot longer, perhaps thousands of our years. But then, when things proved out, you might want to move fast, very fast by your standards, and wrap things up in, oh, say, 50 or 75 of our years. After all, you have made a considerable investment with a long payoff horizon. But when it's time for the payoff. . .] "Even if they did select the earth, it could take them years to be able to start migration. And if they tried it on a small scale, we could handle them. [Well, yes, unless these "others" rolled into town offering MAJIC beans and an alliance, and pleading extreme need and weakness, in effect "handling" us! That might allow them to operate here with very small numbers, if the technology was sufficiently high. ] "Also, we might have space ships by then, maybe new weapons to hit them with." [Perhaps. But in any event we'd sure LIKE to have them, wouldn't we? Yes. Which is all the more reason we'd be eager to make some kind of a "quid quo pro" deal, if one were offered, right?] "Of course, if the earth was their only choice, they might rush things." [Yes, just as they appear to be rushing things now, in 1997!] "Riordan made a face, "Damn it, I still say it's fantastic, intelligence colonel or not!" [Well, Jim, you're not supposed to believe it, you don't know enough. But to someone with a little knowledge this would have had the ring of absolute truth, would it have not!?] "The thing that bothers me," I said, "Is the Air Force clearing this thing." [Yes, Don, that IS the question -- and why won't you speculate? Is it because if you did, you might induce the READER to speculate? I think that was the case.] "As my airliner droned over Baltimore, I looked down over the sprawling city. Would this and other American cities be coveted by unknown space races? Would they offer the homes, industries and food that these mysterious beings required? Or would their needs be totally different? Even if they closely resembled us in form, they might have developed a civilization so strange that ours would be totally useless to them. . . [That's right, and even this would take a long time to overcome, a long time to establish communication, a long time to establish the kind of relationship required. It might take many years.] "For two days after my return from New York, I heard nothing from the Pentagon. Finally I called Chop, but a PIO told me he was in a conference. "I left word for him to call, and a little later the phone rang. But instead of Al, it was Henry Brennard, the man who had tipped me off to the Utah pictures. "Did you hear about yesterday's blow-up over the saucers?" "No," I said, "What happened?" "There's been a rush of new sightings." "I know that. Chop told me." "Well, most of them have been kept quiet. . .then on top of that an Intelligence colonel got an article cleared." "You mean the Odell piece? They let me see it." "That set off another row. . .it's another argument for slamming down the lid tight." [Here we see it, the bureaucratic winners are perhaps angry about the leak, which they might see as too much. This would lead one to believe that Keyhoe is a conduit for those upset with policy. But, you never know, the crackdown could have been just for effect. That is, if the real power were behind the leak, either by proxy or directly, they MUST crack down on it at some point or the mark, er, the target audience, might begin to catch on to the possible truth about the source of this leak.] "You mean they've done that?" "No, but the Central Intelligence Agency recommended it," Brennard said. "At least that's what I heard." [When this book was published the "CIA" was almost unknown to the general public. But to a government insider, it was different.] "How did the CIA get into this?" "The Air Force gave some of their top men a secret briefing. The CIA people advised them to put out a new report, debunking the saucers the way they did in '49--tell the people the project was ended, and then carry it on underground. It'd probably be top secret." [In 1949 occurred what I call the "First Crackdown" and everyone at Wright Field was fired or transferred. . .except Hynek. (Editor's note: the "First Crackdown" was marked by the transition between Projects Sign and Grudge). Now, I invite my readers to make of this what they will. In any event, the 1953 crackdown was SERIOUS, and it finally did the job of all but killing the UFO with respectable Americans. (54)] "They'd never get away with it--not with all they've let out now! I don't think they'll even try. Some of the boys are mad at the CIA for even suggesting it. . . " [That is, the regular military is mad -- at the CIA, those Ivy League bunglers and spies! And why shouldn't they be mad! The whole thing probably stunk to high heaven to some of them, perhaps even to a young Lt. Corso, who might have known something even then. . .though he admits to little in his new book.] "I had barely had time to put down the phone when it rang again. This time it was Al. "I've resigned," he said bluntly. "You'd better come on in and meet my relief." "Look, I heard there's been a big row over the Utah film." "I don't want to talk about that now. Come on over to my place tonight and I'll tell you what I can." When I saw Al that night he told me that there were two groups deadlocked over the secret film. . .one group wants to say the objects might have been reflections." [The insiders are viciously fighting over the UFOs. Why? Can it really be all about "lights in the skies?" I don't think so.] "But the analysis!" I said. "Those speeds and maneuvers proved the things couldn't be birds or balloons--or even jets. Both ATIC and the Navy agreed on that." "It's not my suggestion--don't get mad at me. . .they honestly think they're right--that it's better to keep the thing quiet and not stir up the people." [Yes, indeed, they don't want to stir anyone up! They might begin to do some analysis, ask questions, maybe the right ones! ] "It's a dangerous gamble, Al. What if something happens and the public isn't prepared--" [Can you believe it, at this point Keyhoe thinks "invasion" might be imminent and wants to guard against panic! And Chop doesn't blink an eye. What must they have known.] "I know, but it isn't settled. We may yet win." [Of course, we know now that they DIDN'T win, the censorship boys did. And today, the public is about 40 years behind in the information game, a lag that could prove to be deadly as the next century unfolds. Take a look at Keyhoe's closing paragraphs.] "If there is any proof that attack or invasion is planned--we should be told at once. The American people have risen to supreme heights before. They would undoubtedly meet this danger, after the first hysteria, as bravely as they have faced all of our great crises. "All of us--every nation--should be told the truth and be made ready for the saucer landings. Even if we are fully prepared, there will be tense moments. We must accept the possibility that the saucer creatures will differ from us in form. Even if they are utterly friendly, their strange appearance could cause panic. But there may be no such problem. These beings from another world may resemble us closely, in form if not in size. Regardless of their appearance, we must be ready to match the friendliness of any strangers from space. Those first dramatic moments may decide the fate of our world. [Yes, Don, we must be ready to "match the friendliness" of these others. But how will we know if they're "friendly?" Do we just ask them. . .and then take their word for it? I don't think so.] ** End Quotations from Keyhoe ** Well, that was quite a roller coaster ride, wasn't it? But there were significant items glossed over or not discussed, among them: 1) If the leak is accepted as "true" then elements of the U.S. government, its military and its intelligence apparatus must have had intimate communications with these "others" before this time, that is, before 1953. Notice the word "intimate" and think about what that means. How long does it take a human anthropologist to figure out a human culture encountered for the first time? Well, it can take decades! Can we really believe that in only a few years "the Air Force" had these "others" figured out so well that their motivation and condition were known? I don't think so. 2) If "the Air Force" was communicating with these "others" then it had to be at "their" pleasure. That is, THEY were the ones with the high-speed vehicles shooting out of the atmosphere at will, not us. So, whatever "the Air Force" was told by them was what THEY wanted us to know and nothing more. How could WE have validated THEIR communications. I don't know, unless certain representatives were taken to their home planet and shown the situation, as today North Korea takes westerners around and shows them the environmental devastation rampant in that country. But if such a thing were true who would be the ones going? Who would authorize it? Who would organize it? How secret would THAT program be, do you think? 3) And do not miss the fact that strongly implied in this scenario is the idea that these others need help and that we on Earth have the ability to give them help. How much of a leap is it then to a "quid pro quo" of some kind? Not much perhaps. 4) With the above in mind let's think about the Roswell "crash." We are asked to believe that a "flying saucer" went down out in the desert and the "others" JUST LEFT IT THERE, the same way ET's parents flew off and left him. Well, that simply won't wash. Why didn't they return and pick up their vehicle and its crew? There is only one reason, in my view, and that revolves around the idea that Roswell was not any kind of "crash" at all, but rather something else entirely. 5) So, think once again about the Roswell "crash." What if THEY were already looking for a "deal" in the middle-1940s, and were in a bit of a hurry and working with a slightly obtuse bunch of military and intelligence officers. One way to get our guys' attention really fast would be to drop a "flying saucer" near, say, our nuclear testing grounds, an area crawling with military personnel yet remote and easy to seal off. It might be days before these sharpies caught on but once they did, oh, boy! In this scenario the "crash" is the opening gambit that leads to communication and the setting out of terms and conditions, as well as demonstrating the possible benefits to anyone who plays ball. This would be a situation tailor-made to appeal to those at the upper end of our society, both military and civilian. Wrapped around any such arrangement would be a onion-like cocoon of cover stories, some of which THEY would have helped us put into play. That is, there is a BIG difference between picking something up off the ground, by accident, and accepting something from "others," isn't there? Yes, there is. Getting the Roswell vehicle after a "crash" would have short-circuited all kinds of messy questions about the origin of the thing, and allowed all sorts of "limited hang-out" leaks to be promulgated, all without doing any damage to the REAL story, which would seem to be denied by the facts themselves, facts which would also seem damaging to our higher-ups in the military and intelligence. This is top- flight Black Propaganda, good enough to have taken four decades or so to crack, if this scenario is anywhere near the "truth." With this we leave THE KEYHOE SCENARIO and prepare to deal with the one suggested ten years ago by John Lear and the people who were leaking to him. Prior to 1987 and things like The Lear Letters and Communion, UFOs were "fun" for me, an intellectual game of great interest, on a par with high-tech statistical baseball or the making of optical surfaces, two pursuits in which I also indulge. But after Lear and Strieber the "fun" started to go out of ufology and a grim sort of reality began to creep in around the edges. Then, in 1988, that grim reality began to pour in, through every nook and cranny, and UFOs stopped being fun at all, at least for me. You will see what I mean as we continue. *** Notes To Part 4b [49] On page 109 his REPORT (see Note [3]) Ruppelt talks about a group who, ". . .due to their association with government, had complete access to our files. They were scientists, rocket experts, nuclear physicists and intelligence experts. They had banded together to study the UFO because they were convinced that some of them represented interplanetary space ships." See Note [44] for Ruppelt's "great men" statement. [50] Ibid, beginning on page 56 and continuing through Chapter Five, "The Dark Ages," Ruppelt documents the crackdown. On page 58 Ruppelt says, "The change in operating procedure was so pronounced that I wondered if there wasn't a hidden reason for it." Ruppelt goes on to say that this happened at a time when the UFO reports were getting better and better, not worse and worse. Then he states, again on page 58, "Maybe I was just playing the front man to a big cover-up." On the next page he says, "Early in 1949 there was a 'new look' in UFOs, just as there was in women's fashion. The new look was to 'cuss 'em." [51] These quotations are taken from FLYING SAUCERS FROM OUTER SPACE, Donald Keyhoe, Henry Holt & Company, 1953. The book covers the same basic time frame as Ruppelt does but from two different perspectives. And Ruppelt's book came out three years later, and shows it. Ruppelt's book is crafted. [52] See ABOVE TOP SECRET, previously cited, pp. 335-339 for details of the Robertson Committee or Panel. On page 209 of Ruppelt's book he begins to describe his experience with what he calls "our panel of experts." It is most interesting. The text of this group's report would not be seen by the public until the late 1960s, and even then only the summary was released. The recommendation of the panel was that since there was really nothing to UFO reports they should be debunked mercilessly in the public prints. And this was made so. [53] Keyhoe discusses the tensions of this time in Chapter Four of his FLYING SAUCERS, a chapter entitled "The July Crisis." In Ruppelt's REPORT, on page 152, he writes about "one group getting dead serious" about the rise in UFO reports and wanting something done. Then Ruppelt says, "The enthusiasm of this group took a firm hold at the Pentagon, at Air Defense Command Headquarters, on the Research and Development Board, and at many other agencies throughout the government." Now, read that last sentence again. [54] Frank Edwards, listed in 1953 as one of the three top radio journalists in the United States (along with Edward R. Murrow and Lowell Thomas) would be fired in August, 1954 because, Edwards was to say, "I talked to much about flying saucers." See FLYING SAUCERS, SERIOUS BUSINESS, Lyle Stuart, 1966, page 197. For a fine look at Edwards' career, see Sach's ENCYCLOPEDIA, previously cited, pages 90 and 91. [End -- Part 4b of Part Four]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Resolving a Case of Mistaken Identity From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:41:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:41:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Resolving a Case of Mistaken Identity >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:10:12 -0400 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Resolving a Case of Mistaken Identity >Resolving a Case of Mistaken Identity >On Friday night August 8 I posted "Evaluating UFO Scenarios >Using Counterintelligence" part 4a of UFOSearch essay #9: >Science, Counterintelligence and UFOs. When I opened my email >box on August 10 I found this preface to the essay by >our list administrator. >[It has been brought to my attention that 'Val German' > is, in all probability, aka 'Val Valerian', aka 'John > Grace', formerly associated with John Lear. The following > should be read with that information in mind - ebk] The 'list administrator' was given some information pertaining to the author of the series - it was plugged into the next article in that series when it arrived on the same evening. >As I had not been contacted regarding this question of >Val Germann being confused with John Grace and Val Valerian >prior to release of the essay to the list I had no >opportunity to address this issue and prevent this potentially >embarrassing situation. Potentially embarrassing for whom? This issue could have been addressed quite some time ago by Val Germann who on Sunday, 10 Aug 1997 23:17:34 -0400 via Gary Alevy, wrote: >As I perused the "NARG" material I noticed that Mr. Grace was >sometimes said to write under the name of "Val Valerian," the >name of a 1950's contactee, or actual alien, some said, who was >ensconced in the Pentagon! Oh, well. Years later, when I began >posting to UseNet, I wondered if anyone would bring up this >"similiarity" in names. No one did. Then last year I was >informed that in Volume III of Jerome Clark's UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA I >was IDENTIFIED with John Grace and Val Valerian, that is, my name >was said to be another pseudonym for Mr. Grace. I have tried to >correct this impression by writing to the publisher of the >ENCYCLOPEDIA, with what result I do not know. If, as Val says, he has known about this "impression" for a while it could have been handled publicly, via the Net, sooner. Jerry Clark is a subscriber to this List and doubtlessly has been following the related threads. The subject of the misinformation could be taken up with him, here on the List. Gary continued: >2 - I was disappointed to see the essay prefaced with > remarks that could give the impression of disparaging > the author and the Science, Counterintelligence and UFOs > series in the eyes of the readership of the list. Had this matter been handled sooner - we would not now be discussing this. > I wish that the the article could have been held for > posting while fact checking was done; I was not contacted, > nor was the author. This List facilitates the discussion and publication of information regarding UFO related phenomena including that relating to subscribers to UpDates. I understand what Gary is saying but the onus is not on the 'List Administrator' to conduct "fact checking" - that is part of the List's process. >3 - It is also unfortunate that the archived version of > the article contains the remarks in question and they > may prove difficult to remove. Yes, it is unfortunate - but also fortuitous that this and subsequent discussion will also be archived. And finally, to quote Val Germann: >At the end of the day none of this is very important. That is, >those who CAN do are going to DO what they are going to do, >regardless of what anyone says. Though the sun may be shining on >Mr. Clark's side of the ufological street, it has been raining >pretty steadily on mine. Val, none of the work that any of us do is easy. We all have moments that we'd rather forget about. But they are only moments. The most recent have served to bring misinformation about you to your peers attention in a public forum. Now we know. Errol
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED! From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:42:00 -0400 Subject: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED! Note: I had a conversation with Mr. DuVal, who lives about three miles north of me in Miami Beach, Fl, he assured me that he never stated that the "discovery" was Atlantis. He do believes that there are similarities between the "ruins" and those in Egypt and other parts of the world. When I asked him why they did not go to the scientific community and instead to the Internet [where a meme can be created] he responded that they want to secure protection against looting from the Bahamian Government. I'm scratching my head. Kwint sent a very interesting article which follows. From: Kwint <gwprod@primenet.com> The following is a response from the New Heaven New Earth mailing list, which was forwarded to me: Kwint Wednesday, July 30, 1997 NHNE NEWS FLASH: ATLANTIS-BIMINI UPDATE On July 7, NHNE received a press release from Aaron Du Val, President of EGYPTOLOGY SOCIETY in Miami, Florida stating that his group was preparing to announce an important archeological find of megalithic ruins underwater off the coast of Bimini. Photographs and video tapes of the ruins, which reportedly consisted of metal-covered walls, quarry marks similar to those found in Egypt, pyramid-shaped structures similar to those on the Giza Plateau, and star charts on the walls, were to be presented at a July 25th press conference at the MIAMI MUSEUM OF SCIENCE. Seeking to verify Du Val's claims, NHNE contacted Du Val in Florida. In a telephone interview, Du Val would not divulge any information about the location of the find, or who made it. He said much of this information would be revealed in the July 25th meeting. NHNE also learned from both Du Val and MIAMI MUSEUM officials that the only connection between the EGYPTOLOGY SOCIETY and the MIAMI MUSEUM OF SCIENCE was that Du Val's organization rented meeting space from museum. Seeking to alert our readers to this fast-breaking story and enlist their help in determining the authenticity of Du Val's claims, we sent out our first NHNE NEWS FLASH on this topic to everyone on the NHNE mailing list on July 17, 1997. We immediately began receiving calls and email from people all over the world. NHNE then arranged for a SwiftWing reporter to attend Du Val's July 25th press conference. To our disappointment, at the last minute (the morning of the July 25th), Du Val announced that the meeting was being postponed until August 8th, in order for his group to arrange for more protection of the site, which he felt was still vulnerable to plundering and vandalism. If the August 8th meeting takes place as planned, an NHNE representative will be there to file a report. Until then, we leave you with a particularly interesting letter from Paul E. Pettennude, who claims to be an underwater archeologist who is intimately familiar with the Bimini area. His letter was written in response to Du Val's declaration that artifacts from the lost continent of Atlantis had been discovered in Bimini. Pettennude's letter is reprinted here with permission. James Gregory Editor-in-Chief NHNE News Brief eMail: "jpg@sedona.net" WWW: http://www.nhne.com/ {An aside from Kwint:) Paul Pettennude, Ph. D. IS an underwater archaeologist. Some reports on his work can be found at: http://copan.bioz.unibas.ch/meso/eltigre.txt He is director of an underwater research project in a region known as El Tigre, Campeche, Mexico. His association is with the Maya Underwater Research Center. http://copan.bioz.unibas.ch/meso/oceanboats.txt . He is also quoted several times on other topics here: http://copan.bioz.unibas.ch/meso.html Pettennude's letter follows ... HOG WASH (Source: Paul E. Pettennude, thanks to Coreen Kutchak) As an underwater archaeologist dealing with indigenous America, I can state categorically that nothing has been found in the Bahamas. I can say this for several reasons: -- The first reason surfaced several weeks ago when I was asked to inquire about a newly-discovered artifact off Bimini. I did so with the largest dive operator on the island. It seems someone found a large granite block with a pyramid carved on it. It had only been in the water for a month because no soft corals were growing on it and it hadn't really started sinking into the substrate, which is 15 feet deep in that area. It was hauled out and taken over to Bimini for display. -- Bimini is not the lost world. It is a very, very popular resort destination and thousands of divers visit it every year. Every available reef is dived frequently and nothing else has turned up. -- The HARBOR BRANCH OCEANOGRAPHIC INSTITUTE of Melbourne, Florida (a very prestigious) research center is currently harvested a species of sponge at all levels of depth down to at least 3,000 feet. This sponge contains enzymes which retard the growth of a number of cancers. The work is being conducted under NSF grants with Bahamian cooperation. My wife is one of the researchers from the UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI MEDICAL SCHOOL. The ROSENTEIL SCHOOL OF OCEANOGRAPHY at the UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI is also involved. The equipment is very sophisticated and there is nothing but known wrecks being found. -- In 1986, NASA had the Navy scour everything north of Cuba to north of North Carolina looking for pieces of the exploded Challenger shuttle. Every square foot of bottom down to 6,000 feet was examined and every piece of the wreck larger than a dinner plate was recovered. -- The U.S. Navy maintains a submarine nuclear training facility in the Bahamas and every square yard of the bottom has been sonically mapped down to bedrock. The AUTEC buoy off the Bahamas is connected to the bottom by a huge cable and is used to resupply American ICBM submarines. This is near the location known as the "Tongue of the Ocean." -- The U.S. Navy maintains a system called SOSUS which cost $16 billion to secure the ocean floor from foreign subs. It paints a picture of everything from the bottom up. The so-called "Bimini Road" is a natural reef formation made of limestone. I first started looking at it in 1968 when one of my professors at the UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI, J. Manson Valentine, found it. It is not a road, nor a wall but just a limestone reef about a quarter of a mile long. It has stress points which appear to be seams of blocks, but under careful examination you can tell it is entirely natural. We have also analyzed samples and found them to be coral rock produced by a reef. The reefs off Bimini from 300 feet up to the surface are less than 14,000 years old. This is the level to which the water rose at the end of the last ice age. There could not be a sunken city because the Bahama Islands are not shrinking but actually growing inches per year. This would have made any ancient city unstable. Divers could not have found a city below 250 feet without special diving gases. We use a Trimix blend made from helium, oxygen and nitrogen for all dives below 200 feet down to around 800 feet. From 800 feet to 1500 feet we use blends of neon and oxygen. There are only a handful of people in the world trained and certified to dive these research blends. I am one of them and the group is a close knit family. No one has any knowledge nor has been asked to find an ancient city. I could add another page or two, but at this point I think my answer is already overkill. ---Paul E. Pettennude NewHeavenNewEarth eMail: nhne@sedona.net WWW: http://www.nhne.com/ Subscriptions: http://www.nhne.com/subscribe.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:50:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:43:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/10/97 6:37 PM: > Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:41:54 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > 3. How many hallucinatory or delusional disorders include 'stigmata'? > Physical manifestations that appear in conjunction with the hallucination? Interestingly enough, I did some research on this subject recently. No, stigmata are very rare. According to the materials I found, there are two types of stigmata - the so-called "miraculous" stigmata, and hypnotically induced stigmata. If I recall correctly the difference between the two are that the hypnotically induced stigmata heal and are prone to infection. Also, the blood flow is relatively small. Medical science does not seem to be doing much work on either of these phenomena. Hope this helps. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:54:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:54:15 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 03:21:55 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col. Philip Corso > Hi Jim, > I heard the show and Corso had so much to tell that there wasn't any > time for callers. List readers, Those who missed the Corso interview live can hear it via the internet using a RealAudio player. Its about 2 hours and 51 minutes long. Look at the Art Bell audio archive for 7/6/97, the Dreamland program. This is the page, click on 7/6/97 for the audio. http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/archive.html#jul97 The interview was conducted by both Linda Moulton-Howe and Art Bell interviewing Col. Philip J. Corso and his co-author William J. Birnes. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 32 From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 00:17:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:55:20 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 32 >From: Masinaigan@aol.com >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:54:07 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 32 > UFO ROUNDUP >Volume 2, Number 32 >August 10, 1997 >Editor: Joseph Trainor >UFOs SWEEP CANADA (snip) > Two nights later, on Monday, July 28, 1997, at 12:05 >a.m., a woman standing at the corner of 68th Street and the >King George Highway in Surrey, B.C. "saw a brilliant white >light hovering in the southeast sky. The woman believed the >object was hovering over Cloverdale. The object pulsed and >faded at times, getting extremely bright (and) at other times, >the size of a small star. Several unconventional movements >were also observed during the 30-minute viewing." (snip) Hi All, Sounds _exactly_ like the bugger I captured on video on July 26th here in NY. More people have to start looking up more often, and remember,... keep the battery in the videocam charged. <G> John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Skunk ape crosses the line From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:27:20 -0400 Subject: Skunk ape crosses the line http://www.naplesnews.com/today/local/skunkape.htm Brent Batten: Skunk ape crosses the line Saturday, August 09, 1997 OK, that's it. The thousand injuries inflicted on my home state I have borne as best I could. I'll nod sympathetically as I hear for the umpteenth time from the exteenth different person the story of the car with the Ohio license plates, driving slowly down U.S. 41 with a right turn signal flashing then suddenly swerving left across two lanes of traffic to get to Morrison's. After all, I've told similar stories myself, just substituting Michigan or Indiana plates. I'll force a laugh when subjected to that Florida tourism radio commercial that says that if you take away Florida's warm weather, sunny beaches and lush golf courses you are left with -- Cleveland. Even we Ohioans used to have an occasional chuckle at Cleveland's expense. That was among family. But I draw the line at the skunk ape. Novelist Randy Wayne White believes the skunk ape, the bigfoot-like creature reputed to be wandering the wilds of eastern Collier County, is "The result of an Ohioan mating with a Canadian." The skunk ape has been sighted several times in the past few weeks by residents and tourists around Turner River Road. It is big, hairy and smells bad. According to Ochopee resident David Shealy, who became an instant celebrity and expert on the skunk ape on Tuesday when he presented a set of plaster footprints and a blurry photo to Collier County commissioners for their inspection, the Florida skunk ape likes dried beans, especially lima beans, and is more aggressive than its northern cousin, the sasquatch. Now as anyone born of Ohio parents can tell you, lima beans are not a favorite food. Too many summer afternoons spent shelling beans under a mother's watchful eye tend to ruin one's enthusiasm for the dish. And as for aggressiveness, the few Canadians who do summer in the Florida heat generally do so within the confines of central air. These genes are not predisposed to stalk the swamp in late July. It can therefore be deduced that the skunk ape is not descended from an Ohioan and Canadian. This finding is every bit as clinical as the pronouncement of Robert Smith, a private investigator working for the Bigfoot Research Organization, who, when declaring the sightings authentic, said: "With the heat and the mosquitoes, I can't believe it's some guy in a gorilla suit." You can't argue with a body of evidence like that. Skunk ape sightings will likely boost tourism in a part of the county that could use it right about now. Some have even suggested that the entire flap may be a hoax intended to do just that. Such cynicism aside, the scientific method requires that we try to disprove the various theories behind the skunk ape. One of the first that can be discarded is Mr. White's hypothesis about the Ohioan and the Canadian. After all, any self-respecting parent from my home state would have this kid, at 7 feet, 600 pounds, wearing an Ohio State football jersey.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff From: Ron Decker <ron_decker@wavebbs.com> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:44:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:01:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff > From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] > Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:54:17 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Prevarications and Kal Korff > > For the last several days (writing 8/10/97) I have been looking > for response on the fact that skeptic Kal Korff went on the > Art Bell radio program and admitted to telling an "untruth" > in regards to claiming that Bell forced radio stations to not > allow Korff on their station shows or he would pull his show > from the offending stations. Don, Like yourself I've been waiting to see if anyone on the list was going to comment on Korff's comments. Bell must have had Korff dead to rights to coerce him into doing what he did. Personally, I think the whole situation is going to have far-reaching implications for Mr. Korff. His credibility was not high among some folks here; as far as I'm concerned it is now nil. What I would like to know is why Korff felt it necessary to lie? Did he think Art Bell was going to roll over? Was Korff set up? Where did he get his information regarding Bell's alleged consipiracy against him? Or did he cook it up out of thin air? If so, he has some real problems. As we learned in Reporting 103, the best defense against a charge of libel is the truth. I usually listen to the previous night's broadcast while at work. When I heard Korff's admission I did a double-take and replayed the first few minutes to be sure I'd heard correctly. As a reader of the list I don't participate often (if ever) and I was waiting to read the commentary. Like yourself, I was somewhat surprised that no one had anything to say regarding Korff's apology as I was sure it would make thundering copy, at least here.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 The Politics of UFOs - Vallee, Bassett From: "Diana Hopkins" <DDBH@msn.com> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 11:03:53 UT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:29:07 -0400 Subject: The Politics of UFOs - Vallee, Bassett This week Project: watchfire is covering Government Secrecy and the Politics of UFOs. There are several in depth interviews with Jacques Vallee incorporating text, video and audio. The URL is http://watchfire.msn.com. Video and Audio Interviews are available via Netshow. Stephen Bassett is the founder of Paradigm Research Group As a consultant and lobbyist working with extraterrestrial phenomena researchers, he views the key initial issues as needing to be resolved politically in Washington, DC. Bassett will be joining Project: watchfire and the new MSN UFO Forum for a live chat - text - in the Briefing Room. The chat starts at 6pm, PT on Tuesday August 12th. Diana Botsford
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Hungarian Exhibition On UFOs And Extraterrestrials From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:31:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:31:02 -0400 Subject: Hungarian Exhibition On UFOs And Extraterrestrials Found at: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9708/10/AP001138.ap.html For Hungarian UFO enthusiasts, Roswell is another world 10 August 1997 Web posted at: 19:11 CEST, Paris time (17:11 GMT)=20 BUDAPEST, Hungary (AP) If the famous Roswell aliens were nothing but dummies in U.S. Air Force parachute tests, word hasn't reached Budapest yet.=20 In a cavernous sports and concert hall shrouded in semi-darkness, organizers on Saturday opened what they claim is one of the world's biggest exhibits on UFOs and extraterrestrials.=20 The Roswell story figures prominently in the displays, but visitors said they hadn't heard of the U.S. Air Force report in June that seeks to debunk the belief that the government covered up a UFO crash in 1947.=20 Even if nothing happened there, said Robert Szuecs, author of a book on Roswell, that doesn't prove there aren't any UFOs or aliens.=20 With admission of $3.75 for adults and $2 for kids, the exhibit is pricey by Hungarian standards the average worker here makes $300 a month.=20 One visitor, Istvan Demeter, was less than thrilled. "Let's just say this exhibition would not convince me," he said. But his 9-year-old son, Istvan, Jr., who clutched a souvenir Martian doll, was in awe.=20 "We're coming back tomorrow!" he declared. "No, we're not," his father answered.=20 Copyright 1997 =BF The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. =20 =A9 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Aug 97 08:10:01 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:32:36 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:21:08 -0400 >From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Day Before Roswell' > Considering both sets of seemingly conflicting descriptions, >I wonder why no one(to my knowledge)has ever suggested the possibility >of a mid-air collision between a weather/Mogul balloon and a craft of >unknown origin. Actually, that has been suggested several times in the past both here and in other discussion groups. One theory even had two UFOs colliding and getting mixed up with a Mogul balloon train in the process. Others have suggested a firefight between two UFOs in which both were brought down. And then there is my more serious suggestion involving Wile E. Coyote and a shipment of anvils. I still think mine is the most likely explanation. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Aug 97 08:10:03 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:45:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:41:54 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. John, I'm not sure why you referenced my message in yours, but I do not and have never thought that you or other abductees are hallucinating. I don't think you suffer from mental disorders either. I think all of you are being subjected to real events, but I am skeptical of many of the interpretations of these events. The closest thing I have had to an argument with Budd Hopkins was when I was trying to convince him to look at the historical evidence and realize that the abduction phenomenon is NOT a new thing, and may not involve aliens. He, like many other abduction researchers, just does not want to hear this. But, for those willing to go to the effort, I think reading the transcripts of the Salem witch trials, and other witch trials and the records of the inquisition can be very informative (if frightening, disgusting and depressing). These poor people were often describing events which today would be called abductions, and showed the "devils marks" which today we call "scoop marks". Finding these marks during the physical exam was a sure sign that the person was a witch. Those who choose to wear blinders and only see this a a modern phenomenon, as a benign or friendly phenomenon, and as definitely involving "aliens", "space brothers", and such are hindering any real progress in investigating these events. I applaud you for your open minded attitude. I just wish all abuctees and abduction researchers would open their minds to the other possibilities in trying to explain these strange phenomena. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:19:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:01:12 -0400 Subject: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell From: Saucer Smear, August 5 1997: http://www.mcs.com/~kvg/smear/v44/ss970805.htm I have marked the links to previous editions of Saucer Smear with stars and added the text after the Moore piece. LETTERS TO YE OLDE EDITOR: The semi-mysterious WILLIAM (BILL) MOORE writes as follows: "...As for the continuing phony document controversy*, it is my opinion that the various assertions which have been made are interesting but inconclusive. Unfortunately I am unable to shed any further light on the matter, having already told those involved all that I can. I reiterate however, that IF they are fabrications, I am not the one responsible... "With respect to the course of recent events, controversies, etc. there are several things of importance about which a few comments would appear to be in order: "First, I completely agree with Jim Oberg's recent letter (as published in the last `Smear')**, especially his last two paragraphs, and I am glad somebody in a position of importance has finally come out and said it. As Mr. Oberg has indicated, there are a lot of stories hidden under that particular rug which would serve to illuminate many present myster ies. "Second, after deep and careful consideration of recent developments concerning Roswell, and because my name continues to be connected with this story, I wish to advise anyone who might be interested that I no longer am of the opinion that the extraterrestrial explanation is the best explanation for this event. I concede that it remains in the running as a possible explanation... "And finally, with respect to Kal Korff's recent book wherein I figure somewhat prominently, I wish to say that I find it an interesting mixture of truth, half-truth, exaggeration, speculation, and a few just plain honest mistakes. I have always had a high degree of respect for Kal and his efforts to tell truth as he sees it. ... "All things considered, Korff is a far better skeptic than Phil Klass will ever be. Could it possibly be that in this intelligent young man we finally have an heir apparent to that mean-spirited crusty old fart?" *Link to Saucer Smear, May 20 1997: PHIL KLASS, the hottest vaudeville star in London, writes: "This letter is prompted by Bill Moore's denial that he might have created a counterfeit General Schulgen Draft Collection Memo (SDCM). IF it is counterfeit, as Robert Todd's rigorous analysis indicates, let Moore study Todd's analysis and issue a statement as to whether he agrees that the SDCM he first made public in 1986 is indeed counterfeit. Then we can consider who might have created the counterfeit document. "My own list of possible suspects includes the following; Dolly Parton, Sgt.Richard Doty, Richard Nixon, Bill Moore, Pope John Paul, Boris Yeltsin, Sir Edmund Hillary, and you. I did not visit the National Archives from mid-1976 until mid-1987 (following release of the MJ-l2 papers), which disqualifies me as a suspect... "Jean Sider ought to check the facts before he pontificates about debunkers. This debunker `emerged' more than three years before the USAF shut down Project Blue Book, not afterwards as Sider claims." JEFFREY KING writes: "Does Bill Moore expect anyone to take seriously his wild accusations regarding who faked the Schulgen draft collection memorandum that he published? If Moore is really interested in getting to the bottom of the mystery, why doesn't he accept Robert Todd's challenge in `The Spot Report' and name the source for his copy of the document? This would at least allow an independent check of Moore's sources..." ** Link to Saucer Smear, June 20 1997: SKEPTIC JIM OBERG MAKES A VERY IMPORTANT STATEMENT: After the recent semi-public meeting held in Washington, D.C. by Dr. Steven Greer's CSETI organization, well-known UFO skeptic & space expert Jim Oberg of Dickinson, Texas released the following open letter to Dr. Greer. Please read this letter very carefully, especially the final two paragraphs. Here we see strong hints about some currently classified matters that could shed a great amount of light on the real UFO Mystery. Says Oberg: "...I am a lifelong UFO buff, a founding fellow of CSICOP, and long time associate of Phil Klass, as well as a colleague and friend of J. A. Hynek from Northwestern days. I am fascinated with the folklore aspects of the UFO beliefs in our culture, and am a specialist in spaceflight operations, both American and Russian... "I applaud CSETI's efforts to strip away the `government secrets prosecution' barrier to the disclosure of people's stories about UFO experiences and I fully support the call for a government declaration that all legal constraints against disclosure be dissolved. I've always felt that claims of fear of such prosecution, as an excuse by people not to `go public', was often merely a gimmick not to have to take responsibility for the authenticity of such stories. As far as I've been able to tell... nobody has ever been arrested or charged - much less convicted and sentenced - for actually doing so. "But don't stop merely with legalizing disclosure of all - if any - government secrets about `real UFOs'. I believe there is a far more valuable body of `secrets' that will help understand the decades of UFO phenomena that the world has experienced. This deals with government-related activities which directly or indirectly led to public perceptions that UFOs might be real when they weren't. Sometimes these actions were carefully orchestrated in advance; sometimes they were localized impromptu ad hoc damage-limitation tactics. But from my own experience, they seem to have played a tremendous and widely unappreciated role in inciting and enflaming public interest in UFOs while deflecting public attention from real highly-classified government activities. "I'm referring to situations where government representatives - officials, military officers, etc. - used `UFO' as a convenient camouflage for other official classified activities (such as retrieval of crashed aircraft or nuclear weapons or other objects), or used artificial `UFO stories' (in oral, written, photographic, film, etc. form) as `tracers' in studying the function of security safeguards and personnel psychological responses; or used `UFO' as an excuse (either intended or accidental) to cover up improper, forbidden, or diplomatically delicate activities (such as aviation incidents involving dangerous accidental or deliberate close passes or intercepts of civilian airliners; or overseas excursions of agents on intelligence missions where deflection of local perceptions was useful; or to conceal from the country of origin the possession of foreign military hardware); or played pranks and jokes on intended or accidental targets; or any other activity that the government - or any part of it - wanted to keep hidden, knowing that having it thought of as `UFO-related' would consign it to the never-never-land of myth and nuttiness, thus keeping mainstream media attention to a minimum. And it has worked! "Please include such `UFO secrets' in your list of disclosure demands, and ask that any government personnel involved in the use (or misuse or abuse) of such practices be immune from any government prosecution for the actions which led them to take such measures. Once such immunity is verifiably granted, I have my own list of people who have privately talked to me over the years and who were involved in government activities leading to a number of well-known `UFO cases', which can be released and which can help the public understand where and how much of today's UFO mythology originated. "This is a serious proposal deserving of serious consideration, and promises immensely fruitful results."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 10:22:08 cst Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:13:01 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:30:07 -0400 >From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Vince_Johnson >>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 17:08:06 cst >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Bob Shell: Credible Expert or PR Flack? >Dear Vince, >>In either case, Shell's description of his involvement in the AA scam as being limited to being an objective, impartial "photo expert" >>are absurd. >Several times I have seen you call the AA footage a scam. Could you >clarify whether this is a fact or just your personal opinion? Also, >please state what it is based on in either case. Let's start with the pros: The staging of the video is very good -- excellent art direction and special effects work. The video could be convincing in itself if viewed without the surrounding fog issuing forth from Merlin Enterprises (Santilli & Co.). The cons: Camera work is inexcusably sloppy -- so bad it's obviously intended to obscure rather than reveal. EVERY CLAIM made by the promoters of the AA "film" has vaporized into the ether -- from the dating of the film to who did the film-to-video transfer has proved to be a lie. All responses from the Santilli organization have been either evasions or distortions. To date, the only truthful statement from Santilli is that he's "only in it for the money." My question is: How can *anybody* take these guys seriously? It's the credibility death penalty, as far as I'm concerned. Caught in one lie and their credibility is dead forever. Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 00:58:28 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:03:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff >From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:54:17 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Prevarications and Kal Korff >But I can not have been the only one to have heard this broadcast, can >I? As much as Korff has inflamed this List, I thought for sure there >would have been discussions on this. When a pro-UFO proponent is >caught in a blunder the fire rages, now we have a skeptic (or some >might claim a debunker) with his shorts lowered. I will now be much >more skeptical with Mr. Korff when he spouts off, and re-read what he >writes in any new tomes he may get published. For about the past year, I've listened to Art when I remembered that he was on. More so for the entertainment value than any slight educational value. But after his treatment of Korff, I will NEVER listen to Art Bell again. If Art were so concerned with truth, he'd have dug into Brown's claims better, and the same with Dames, Shargel, and all the rest. It's only when HIS butt is getting chewed that he's so holier-than-thou, and I won't listen to such a hypocrite.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:25:30 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:15:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > Date: 11 Aug 97 08:10:03 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:41:54 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > John, > I'm not sure why you referenced my message in yours, but I do not and > have never thought that you or other abductees are hallucinating. I don't > think you suffer from mental disorders either. I think all of you are > being subjected to real events, but I am skeptical of many of the > interpretations of these events. > > The closest thing I have had to an argument with Budd Hopkins was when > I was trying to convince him to look at the historical evidence and > realize that the abduction phenomenon is NOT a new thing, and may not > involve aliens. He, like many other abduction researchers, just does > not want to hear this. Hi Bob, I can understand why Budd would not want to spend time arguing over whether the abduction phenomenon involves aliens or not. He's investigated way too many cases that do appear to involve aliens, some not just from the abductees' recollections with or without the help of hypnosis, but from non-abducted witnesses. And he's seen plenty of evidence of direct UFO connections to abduction events, in which one suspects the UFO had a non-human pilot, for which the word alien applies. As for whether or not abduction events, or the UFO phenomenon, occurred in Earth's historical past, Budd used to (at least some 5 or 10 years ago) not wish to connect ancient astronauts and sky chariots/vimanas, e.g., to aliens/UFOs. I presume this was due to his philosophical beliefs -- whether religious or atheistic. I don't know if he still feels that way on that subject. > But, for those willing to go to the effort, I think reading the transcripts > of the Salem witch trials, and other witch trials and the records of the > inquisition can be very informative (if frightening, disgusting and > depressing). These poor people were often describing events which today > would be called abductions, and showed the "devils marks" which today > we call "scoop marks". Finding these marks during the physical exam was > a sure sign that the person was a witch. Thanks for pointing this out. Don't you think it more plausible to connect these "witches" to a form of the UFO phenomenon as we know it today, than to connect today's abductees to an even lesser understood witchcraft phenomenon of the past? Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 09:52:58 cst Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:12:48 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 06:42:14 -0400 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 I wrote: >>I pose this question to the esteemed readers and participants of >>UFO UpDates: In light of Mr. Shell's constant evasions and >>distortions concerning the details of the origins, and his alleged >>analysis of, the AA "film," and his eager defense of Santilli's >>questionable copyright claims, does anyone here consider him to be >>anything other than a shameless PR flack for Santilli & Co.? To which you responded: >Since I believe your questions have actually been answered previously by >Shell and others, I think that the "evasions and distortions" you mention >here are matters of opinion. I, for one, don't believe that Bob is a >"shameless PR flack" for anyone. However, I would acknowledge that his >relationship with Ray and others raises the question of impartiality >whenever statements are made by him. >However, the criticism here appears to be directed at the messenger, >rather than the message. Bob's reply was a valid one, adding information >to the debate, which can (in turn) be analyzed by readers and responded to >as necessary. I am grateful that Bob, and others, take time to post >information to the "net" so that we call can benefit. Of course, I take >that information and determine what to accept or reject based on my own >knowledge, experience, and faith. I certainly would not reject >information simply because I felt that messenger was not impartial; >however, I would certainly take that into account. I disagree. While Bob is definitely "participating" on this List, his efforts could be more accurately characterized as "marketing." Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Notes on Trip to National Archive II From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:48:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:38:14 -0400 Subject: Notes on Trip to National Archive II Notes on Findings at the National Archives 1946-1947 About 20 documents Top Secret to Unclassified on "ghost rockets:" ONI files: Attaches' reports, AAF Outgoing/Incoming TS messages, lots of of Russian missile activity signals detected from USSR which might be missile guidance broadcasts, Navy plane in area checked on this, etc. Lots of rumors about Russian missile activity. The military seemed to discount "ghost rockets" and much of rumors. They were very interested in following up any lead on missile control by radio. 1947 early July (8?) Schulagen: flying discs seen around country. Better investigate (Secret) in Decimal File: Psychological Warfare--Rumors late July We (AAF) will look into "Amazing Stories." The CIA was checking this--they were happy to let USAF handle Amazing Stories--Decimal file: CIA late July GCA radar in Japan picked up unidentified "jet" turned and displayed several maneuvers which established it as not a weather target. Only one report. "This does not establish that the Russians are up to something." Top Secret Deputy Director of Intelligence: Collection files (TS Collect) late August another radar report from Japan (TS Collect) 1948 Document in ONI Daily files-- USAF Dir of Intel/ONI air is an actual working group with people assigned slots. (In the files there are many joint Air Intel Reports) This is not an ad hoc activity for UFOs, but an ongoing thing. In June Air Force asks the Navy, Army, etc for UFO reports. "Maybe we ought to contact the airlines" (Decimal 1948 files: Flying Discs) (Coast Guard investigation in California has what looks like a specialized form. On Project Blue Book microfilm it looks like a form letter with information. The original is in Project Blue Book files. It is not a specialized form, but was typed in on a Coast Guard letterhead. --Project Blue Book original files) July Missile "V-2-like" seen over Hague (Weekly Intel Briefing) Cabell wants to know if the report is transmitted to T-2 ATIC] (Tasking) (both in TS collect) July (24?) or maybe August Cabell tasks Dir Intel (Air Def) to work on "Tactic of Flying Saucers" (TS Collect) late August Progress report on what is now "Flying Object Incidents over the US" (TS Collect) Oct USAF-Europe said they had a flying saucer report over one of their air bases. Flying discs are being reported all over Europe. (Very blase--No actual reports) In talks with the Swedes, the Swedes opine some reports not of this earth. USAFE to Dir Intel: "What do you think?" (TS Collect) late Oct and early Nov Brook: AFOIOTUS [Analysis of Flying Object Incidents over the US] is finished let distribute it. Cabell: I sent a letter to McCoy ("McCoy memo") for their comment. (TS Collect) Notice to include AFOIOTUS in weekly staff briefing discussion. And Staff Brief itself. "The USAF has not established the origin of UFOs, but we are working on it." (TS Collect) Jan 1949 Rewrite of the AFOIOTUS presented to the Joint Intelligence. Committee. [CIA, Army, Navy, USAF] (TS Collect) Sep 1949 Weekly Intel Summary. Mentioned JIC. Now the comments are more negative. The UFOs are misidentifications of man made or natural activity. (TS Collect) 3 Jan 1950 HQ, Training Command, Scott AFB, IL asked authority to destroy a large number of TS documents no longer considered important. Among them are copies #38-42 of AFOIITUS (TS Collect) **Comment: I did not finish 1950 TS Collect material. 1951--no material--no Cabell blowup and no reorganization at Wright found. April 1950 USAF press release echoed by the Navy, rated A-1. ONI Daily Files April 1950 Press reports that British are sending a ship to help solve flying saucer sightings. Navy: It is a target ship for joint exercises. ONI Daily Files June 1952 ADC commander: I am not getting timely messages about Soviet violations of our airspace. Dir of Intel: newly published instructions have all UFO reports coming to ADC. This should insure ADC is informed. (TS Collect) History first half of 1952 for Dir of Intel. UFO program is two phased: 1) is there defense implication? 2) What are these things? Other items: Korean War pilot's interviews included an item on UFO sightings. AFL 200-5 included in history as an appendix. A draft AFR 200-XX included to modify the CIRVIS reporting system to get more info. UFO Info should go to Project Blue Book. (TS Collect) **Comments: No mention of Wash DC incidents. No mention of the CIA. Stopped looking at record Sep--TS Collect Sep 1952 No mention of UFOs in Franklin Roosevelt's log. July-Oct 1953 No mention of RV sighting in FDR log Sept 1954 Walesville, NY crash reported in USAF Operation Decimal Files Nov 15-Dec 20 1954 Moby Dick Flights from Scotland. USAF Ops Dec. Files Comments: Records Group 18 AAF Entry 4 Incoming/Outgoing Secret messages and below 1943-Oct 1947 are on microfilm. There was no "good" index. It looks like these were arranged by locations of origin of messages. These are actually War Dept messages. They are almost all microfilmed. I thought I would sample a few of the over 250+ rolls in future. Entry 5 Incoming/Outgoing TS messages 1945-Oct 1947 Very few withdrawn. Lots of ghost rockets. No UFOs. Record Group 341 USAF Staff Entry 63A OSI UFO files for 1948-49. Some not microfilmed. Copied 100% of items. Documents from LaPaz with his signature. Original and unsanitized material contained in this entry. Entry 294D has index entry that indicated that it contains photographs of UFOs submitted to Project Bluebook and some text files. The text files were not microfilmed . Actually, it contains the first five boxes of Project Blue Book files 1947-1948. Some of which was not microfilmed. These are original unsanitized files with many original documents. Copied select items which were not on microfilm or were in better condition than what we had. Chiles-Whitted files were great! Many new entries in this group. There could be much new information. Current Intel TS files no longer listed. Have they withdrawn these to do a re-evaluation of security classification of the many items not released in 1977? TS Collect files had many withdrawal especially in 1947. These files were last reviewed in 1984. Needs new review of withheld material. Intel Decimal Files. Many CIA documents withheld. I did not have time to look at all I wanted to. Files on individuals still classified. Did not check Attache files. Between 1954-1958 Attache files are missing: List of reports available but does not include subject, 10,000+ reports. The Archives has thousands of boxes of USAF Intel files not yet reviewed in Stack Area 420. ONI files. Archives has had all early records for over a decade according to archivists. Very little available. Possible we should check papers of Admirals which are available at Naval Archives. Very few documents from the Technical Air Intel Center, at Anacosta. ONI daily files 1945-1952. For 1946 these are Confidential and below. No info. 1947 files are missing. Later letter files skimpy or missing but contain Secret material. ONI attache files more complete and include lots of TS material. No UFO. 1947 is skimpy. Lots of ghost rocket material. We need to look at State Dept and other agencies that did Intel work like OSS for 1946. USAF document indicates that OSS office in Sweden still active in 1946. ***We need a systematic examination of records available and FOIA anything which might be developed from leads. Best regards, Jan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Monday, 11 August 1997 9:45am MT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:02:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:01:12 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:19:06 +0200 >Subject: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell Incident From: Saucer Smear, August 5 1997: >"First, I completely agree with Jim Oberg's recent letter (as >published in the last `Smear')**, especially his last two >paragraphs, and I am glad somebody in a position of importance has >finally come out and said it. As Mr. Oberg has indicated, there are >a lot of stories hidden under that particular rug which would serve >to illuminate many present mysteries. >"Second, after deep and careful consideration of recent developments >concerning Roswell, and because my name continues to be connected >with this story, I wish to advise anyone who might be interested >that I no longer am of the opinion that the extraterrestrial >explanation is the best explanation for this event. I concede that >it remains in the running as a possible explanation... The implications of Moore's statements are vast. I always remembered when I wanted to investigste some hot story or location, he would try to divert me and give me prosaic explanations. He did this about the sightings at Area 51. He would suggest these were no more than Air Force RPVs - he brought up this RPV explanation on more than once occassion. This is the first mention I have seen that he agreed with Oberg on any subject. His statement concerning the Roswell incident is telling. Does it also imply he no longer has any faith in what he was told by the Aviary or the MJ-12 documents he touted? Why is he so quiet and secretive? Oberg's statement below: >"But don't stop merely with legalizing disclosure of all - if any - >government secrets about `real UFOs'. I believe there is a far more >valuable body of `secrets' that will help understand the decades of >UFO phenomena that the world has experienced. This deals with >government-related activities which directly or indirectly led to >public perceptions that UFOs might be real when they weren't. >Sometimes these actions were carefully orchestrated in advance; >sometimes they were localized impromptu ad hoc damage-limitation >tactics. But from my own experience, they seem to have played a >tremendous and widely unappreciated role in inciting and enflaming >public interest in UFOs while deflecting public attention from real >highly-classified government activities. Does this statement mean that Mr. Oberg was aware of these secret government-related activities? Is there a real justification in keeping these activities secret today? Were these activities conducted over urban areas? Why should we even believe there were such secret activities or that they had any influence over inciting enflaming interest in UFOs? I think this whole statement is unverifiable and has no bearing on public interest in UFOs unless it can be proven. It just seems like another smoke-screen. Direct personal experiences, observations, protracted thought and analysis reveals that the UFO phenomena is not a government-related activity unless they have been doing some reverse engineering, but reverse engineering of what if the Roswell object wasn't an extraterrestrial spacecraft? I think we should be asking why there is all this effort and cover-up and debunking. Is something from out of this world so threatening? Sincerely, Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:36:08 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:39:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/10/97 1:53 AM: > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 18:37:50 -0400 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith] > Subject: Of Martian Cats, etc. > Even then and even there one could see folklore, as opposed to=20 > reported fact, at work: Martin Kottmeyer has pointed out somewhere=20 > how strange it is that while Arnold saw crescent-shaped objects, the=20 > flood of UFO reports that immediately followed his seminal sighting=20 > confirmed not his report but the media characterization of what he=20 > saw =A1 that is, "flying saucers", disk-shaped objects. One word: wrong! Why is it so difficult for some people to make an effort= =20 <hint hint> to check these things? Kottmeyer's "point" isn't much of one,= =20 for one thing, a simple look at Arnold's letter to the Air Force (which is reproduced in "Project Blue Book: Top Secret UFO Findings Revealed,= Steiger,=20 1976) tells a different story. Arnold himself wrote he had observed what=20 appeared to be a "chain of saucer like objects" flying over Mount Rainier= =20 There's also a drawing by Arnold included clearly depicting a disk-shaped= =20 object. This took me about 5 minutes to check. Why can't PB and MK do the same? __________________________________________________________________________ =20 Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:32:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:34:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Date: 11 Aug 97 08:10:03 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >>Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:41:54 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >John, >I'm not sure why you referenced my message in yours, but I do not and >have never thought that you or other abductees are hallucinating. Bob, Get a grip man! I just wanted to respond to the thread and picked a message at random to add my response to. I'm sorry if this caused any confusion. I wasn't implying that you thought any of those things! I made the mistake of not checking the references in the header that's all. Nothing personal intended in my response. Wasn't thinking or responding to you at all, sorry. John John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Aug 97 15:20:23 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:45:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:25:30 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Thanks for pointing this out. Don't you think it more plausible to >connect these "witches" to a form of the UFO phenomenon as we know it >today, than to connect today's abductees to an even lesser understood >witchcraft phenomenon of the past? Jim, Please don't misread me. I'm not advocating the reality of witchcraft, which is a totally different subject. I'm saying that in both cases we are dealing with the same phenomenon, and whether viewed through the eyes of a modern abduction researcher or a priest of the inquisition, it is the same thing. And, whatever it is, I'm far from convinced that the modern abduction researcher understands it any better than the medieval priest. I think we are dealing with a non human intelligence of unknown origin and purpose. Yes, this is certainly alien, in the strict sense of the word, but I am objecting to jumping to the conclusion that we are dealing with alien beings from elsewhere in space. While very alien, what we are dealing with may not be extraterrestrial. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff From: "the snakester" <snake@mwaz.com> [Desiree Holloway] Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:56:55 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:49:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff > >From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] > >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:54:17 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Prevarications and Kal Korff > For about the past year, I've listened to Art when I remembered that he > was on. More so for the entertainment value than any slight educational > value. But after his treatment of Korff, I will NEVER listen to Art Bell > again. > If Art were so concerned with truth, he'd have dug into Brown's claims > better, and the same with Dames, Shargel, and all the rest. It's only > when HIS butt is getting chewed that he's so holier-than-thou, and I > won't listen to such a hypocrite. Hi All, Excuse me, but who wouldn't get angry if someone defamed them in such a way? Irregardless of anyones personal feelings about Art Bell, who is clearly an entertainer and nothing more, the sort of sordid, malicious behaviour displayed by Korff is clearly uncalled for, and only further serves to harm the image of ufology. In light of the gross misconduct on the part of Mr. Korff, it is plain to see who the real hypocrite is! And as for exposing the lies of guests on his show, Art Bell has never professed to be an investigator, to my knowledge, and merely reacted to this situation as well as can humanly be expected. In a way, it can be said that some good came out of this. Kal Korff finally showed his true, hideous colors for all the world to see! Desiree Holloway - (perpetually dumbfounded) snake@mwaz.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8701
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:01:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:19:06 +0200 > Subject: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell Incident > From: Saucer Smear, August 5 1997: > > http://www.mcs.com/~kvg/smear/v44/ss970805.htm > SKEPTIC JIM OBERG MAKES A VERY IMPORTANT STATEMENT: > I believe there is a far more > valuable body of `secrets' that will help understand the decades of UFO > phenomena that the world has experienced. This deals with > government-related activities which directly or indirectly led to > public perceptions that UFOs might be real when they weren't. Sometimes > these actions were carefully orchestrated in advance; sometimes they > were localized impromptu ad hoc damage-limitation tactics. But from my > own experience, they seem to have played a tremendous and widely > unappreciated role in inciting and enflaming public interest in UFOs > while deflecting public attention from real highly-classified > government activities. > "I'm referring to situations where government representatives - > officials, military officers, etc. - used `UFO' as a convenient > camouflage for other official classified activities (such as retrieval > of crashed aircraft or nuclear weapons or other objects), or used > artificial `UFO stories' (in oral, written, photographic, film, etc. > form) as `tracers' in studying the function of security safeguards and > personnel psychological responses; or used `UFO' as an excuse (either > intended or accidental) to cover up improper, forbidden, or > diplomatically delicate activities (such as aviation incidents > involving dangerous accidental or deliberate close passes or intercepts > of civilian airliners; or overseas excursions of agents on intelligence > missions where deflection of local perceptions was useful; or to > conceal from the country of origin the possession of foreign military > hardware); or played pranks and jokes on intended or accidental > targets; or any other activity that the government - or any part of it > - wanted to keep hidden, knowing that having it thought of as > `UFO-related' would consign it to the never-never-land of myth and > nuttiness, thus keeping mainstream media attention to a minimum. And it > has worked! Does anybody see the logical fallacy in Oberg's assertion? UFOs work as a cover story for the target audience ONLY if they already believe that UFOs are real. Otherwise you might as well use Santa Claus and his reindeer. Now I can believe that the American public might be fooled by government propaganda, and that government secrets might be covered up with UFOs. But would the mighty Russian intelligence apparatus buy these stories? Why would they, unless they already had very good evidence that UFOs were real? Similarly, would our intelligence apparatus be fooled by Russian cover stories of UFOs (which they sometimes used, e.g., for their secret missile launches)? No, why would they, unless our spook agencies already knew UFOs were real? Otherwise, you get into quite a logical conundrum. Both sides are trying to cover up their secret projects with UFOs, even though both know that UFOs are nothing but "myth and nuttiness." Further, even after 50 years, neither side has been able to figure out that the other side doesn't really believe in UFOs. So they keep on using a completely ineffective UFO cover. This is obviously logically preposterous. I find it ironic that Oberg is actually admitting that major governments know full well that UFOs are real. That's the only way that their UFO disinformation could work in concealing secrets from their foreign enemies. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 "I Met An Alien" - RAF Chief From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:11:16 +0930 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:27:59 -0400 Subject: "I Met An Alien" - RAF Chief G'day all, I came across an article in South Australia's daily newspaper "The Advertiser" today (Monday 11th August 1997) after a friend very kindly pointed it out to me. Make of it what you will. It is presented word perfect from the newspaper. If anyone wants a copy of the article emailed to them just send me a brief note with a reply to address and in the SUBJECT line put the words - "Article Request" - without the quote marks. I will answer the mail as time allows and provided I can convert the fax image to GIF or JPG format. Apologies if this has already been posted as I am well behind in my reading at present. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I met an alien says top RAF officer. By Fiona Barton in London Military giants don't come much bigger than Air Marshall Sir Peter Horsley. A war hero who flew Mosquitoes against the Germans, he has held one of the highest ranks in the RAF and been an adviser to the Queen and Prince Philip. He has also, he claims, met a visitor from another galaxy. Sir Peter has kept his close encounter with the mysterious man he calls Mr Janus in a London flat a secret for 43 years. But now, at the age of 76, he is ready to go public. With a steely gaze, he says; "We talked for hours about travelling in space and time... He didn't say he was a visitor from another planet but I had that impression. I believe he was here to observe us." "I never saw him again. I have no qualms about the reaction to my experience with Mr Janus. I don't care what people think. It is what happened." His extraordionary testimony in his autobiography, Sounds From Another Room, to be published in October by Leo Cooper, and his uncomprimising belief in Unidentified Flying Objects will no doubt ruffle the men at the Ministry. For, incredible as it seems, it is the evidence of a man who once ran the country's defence at RAF Strike Command, and was a Buckingham Palace aide for six years. -------- PHOTO------- At his cottage in Hampshire he discusses the presence of alien spacecraft with unswerving nonchalance. "I would say they come from another planet somewhere in the universe but not in our galaxy. They are benign, not aggressive and, like us, are explorers," he says. His interest in UFOs began, he says, in 1952 while he was an equerry to the Duke of Edinburgh and was started by news- paper reports at the time. Sir Peter says he talked to Prince Philip of his interest in UFOs. "He was quite interested. His mind always open." Sir Peter started by interviewing people who had claimed to have seen UFOs and invited an airline captain to visit him at Buckingham Palace. His own encounter came in 1954. He says he was introduced to a General Martin who arranged for him to visit the Chelsea home of a Mrs Markham. "Janus was there, sitting by the fire in a deep chair. He asked, 'What is your interest in flying saucers?'" And then he gave an account of space travel at the speed of light, with spare body parts in the luggage. Sir Peter's interest in the paranormal stayed with him during his rise through the ranks to the crucial post of chief of the RAF's Strike Command in 1973. But at the Ministry of Defence in Whitehall, jaws are dropping. As one senior officer put it: "Oh God, how unfortunate that the public will learn that the man who had his finger on the button at Strike Command as seeing little green men." Copyright(C) 1997 - The Advertiser, Adelaide, South Australia. As I said, make of it as you wish. Regards, Mike Stahl. SAUFORI.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:46:54 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 10:03:03 cst > Encoding: 47 Text > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 > > >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:48:25 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5, 1997 > > >> From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN.pgs.com > >>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 17:08:06 cst > >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto > >><pdates@globalserve.net > >>Subject: Bob Shell: Credible Expert or PR Flack? > > >> I pose this question to the esteemed readers and participants > >>of UFO UpDates: In light of Mr. Shell's constant evasions and > >> distortions concerning the details of the origins, and his > >>alleged analysis of, the AA "film," and his eager defense of > >>Santilli's questionable copyright claims, does anyone here > >>consider him to be anything other than a shameless PR flack for > >>Santilli & Co.? > >Vince, > > > >Of course Bob is no such thing. And why use such shameless, or rather, > >shameful, language, as "PR flack", "scam" etc.? It's very poor behavior > >to try to drag others down to your level of discourse. > >He's followed the AA affair closely, has met and talked several times with > >Santilli, and regards him as an amiable, basically honest chap who has > >a tendency to exaggerate at times and sometimes claim more than the data > >allow. > >I trust Bob's conclusions on AA much more than I would trust your > >prejudices. > And which conclusions are those Jim? As far as I can tell, Shell has > weaseled on EVERY SINGLE CLAIM he originally made in pronouncing the > authenticity of the AA "film." Please provide the reasons for your > faith in the claims of the Santilli marketing organization. Vince, The conclusion that it's not a hoax within an estimated 95% or so odds. Bob's been over his reasons many times, some here, many on CompuServe, and no doubt in his book. The ones that impress me the most are: 1. His own judgment, and that of experts he has throughly quizzed, that the AA body behaved under the knife like a real flesh & blood creature, and not like any dummy; 2. His own judgment again, and that of various experts, that its internal organs didn't look anything like those of a human, and yet were connected to its body; 3. The judgments he received from various professionals that the various malformities proposed by some to explain differences in outer appearance from humans each do not closely enough fit the alien's appearance, and collectively would be extremely unlikely to have occurred, along with extreme unlikelihood of any such human surviving to adulthood plus the extreme unlikelihood if such had occurred that it would not have been well known within medical literature; 4. The fact, IMO, that no evidence exists to prove it was a hoax, which is not to say that there are no questionable aspects to Santilli's story and the cameraman's story, or that Bob didn't learn of these as time progressed. This includes the artifacts in the autopsy room all checking out and the film print fragment Bob obtained for analysis, for what it was worth, etc. -- a hoaxer would likely have slipped up in these somewhere along the line; 5. The lack of any good motivation for hoaxers, since it would have been such an expensive hoax, and since UFO-alien negativists would not have wished to promote such a realistic film unless they could later prove it a hoax and show how it was done, which of course has not happened; also, the fact that no one has been able to track down any hoaxers that could have done the job; 6. The great likelihood that if it had been a hoax, the cameraman's story would have been altered from a May 31st or June 1st date and near-Soccoro location to July 4th and Roswell, which latter is what even Santilli apparently thought made more sense; and the body would have been made to look like the Roswell body has been described, with 4 fingers, etc. If Bob does not subscribe fully to all the above, he'll let us know. I just don't subscribe to the superhuman hoaxer hypothesis. Only aliens could do all that the hoaxer(s) are imagined to do! So I view those who, knowing the above, nevertheless one-sidedly push the hoax hypothesis and ignore the above as either disinformation specialists or persons whose belief systems cannot tolerate an Earth whose galactic (or other-dimensional) environment is populated with aliens. Sometimes the argument is made that the AA creature couldn't have been an alien because its external appearance looks too human. Well, besides the fact that it doesn't look all that human even on the outside, there have been lots of abductees who have reported that, along with various types of greys seen on board there have been very human appearing aliens in cahoots with them, or in charge of them. If these can look totally human in outward appearance, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine that some alien types could look *somewhat* human in outward appearance. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff From: DONFEII@aol.com {Don Ecker] Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:27:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Prevarications and Kal Korff >From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 00:58:28 EDT >If Art were so concerned with truth, he'd have dug into Brown's claims >better, and the same with Dames, Shargel, and all the rest. It's only >when HIS butt is getting chewed that he's so holier-than-thou, and I >won't listen to such a hypocrite. Bud; I was attempting to say the same thing in a subtle way, but sometimes it is much better to just say it. Be that as it may, I don't fault Bell for being upset. Truth is truth, I wonder what Promethus Books will say? Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Earth lights - Objections From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:03:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Earth lights - Objections > From: DevereuxP@aol.com > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:16:32 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Earth lights - Objections > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > >Subject: Earthlights objections > >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 03:01:22 -0700 > >In reading the discussion about Earthlights, I must admit to > >being unconvinced - and not because of being a die-hard ETH proponent (which > >I am not), but because of dissatisfaction with what I know about > > the hypothesis. > >1) Energy requirements: We have cases from Vallee (Confrontations,ISBN > >0-345-36501-1, p23-35)....<snip>.... How >could such large energy > >outputs be sustained for such periods? > Well, I can't comment specifically on the cases you quote - you'd > have to go back to source - Vallee et al. What I can do is put > the question back to you: how do you suppose the energy outputs > of supposed ET craft is sustained? This is an extremely evasive answer by Devereux. If he is going to posit a conventional natural phenomenon, then he better come up with a conventional, natural power source for it. As we shall see below, it is quite possible to come up with conventional power sources for artificial UFOs that explain their observed energy output. Whether they use any of these is another question entirely. > No one seems to bothered about > that, citing some magical alien technology we are ignorant of > to get round the performance problems posed by supposed ET craft. This is nonsense, as I shall demonstrate. No "magic" is necessary. This is a straw man argument. > In other words, the problems are never truly addressed by the > ETH gang. I'll address them now. Maybe Devereux and the "Earthlights gang" will extend the same courtesy to Cashman, instead of dodging the question. > So I expect to see you pose these same concerns on this > List to them - why should you single out earth lights if you are > as neutral as you claim? Very simple. Because we can imagine PLAUSIBLE, ARTIFICIAL power sources to explain UFO performance, but no PLAUSIBLE, NATURAL power source, if unexplained UFOs are all nothing but earthlights. That's the basis of Cashman's question. Now to specifics. First of all, if UFOs are artificial craft, they must be highly efficient energy converters because of the potential heating problems associated with their high energy output. We must assume energy conversion on the order of 90% or better. Do we know of such energy sources? Yes indeed, as we shall soon get to. First, what are the energy requirements? For simplicity, let's assume 100% energy efficiency and devise a model craft. A classic 10 meter diameter saucer 2 meters thick will do. How much will it weigh? If the alien engineers can do no better than a fully fueled and loaded 747 which weighs around 400,000 pounds, then our much smaller saucer will, believe it or not, weigh only about 5000 pounds or about 2000 kg, only slightly more than a standard automobile. For obvious reasons, jet planes are made of lightweight materials like aluminum, and are mostly air on the inside. Consequently, their specific gravity is surprisingly low when you work it out. We must assume the aliens should be able to devise a craft at least as good (if not better -- i.e. lighter.) As outlined below, if saucers are some sort of magnetohydrodynamic craft, then they need carry no propellent, since they use the air as a propellent. That eliminates a lot of weight right there. And since I propose they carry no conventional fuel for energy and use the structure of the craft itself for energy storage and propulsion, that eliminates even more weight. But we'll conservatively stick to the mass of 2000 kg. How much energy does such a craft need? Assume it must descend from orbit from some larger mother ship (which may have a very different power source), and then return to orbit. In between, it must have energy to fly around and do whatever saucers are sent here to do. Orbital velocity is about 8000 m/sec. The energy required (at 100%) efficiency to boost a 2000 kg craft to orbit is 1/2 * mv^2 or 1.6 * 10^11 Joules. Round that up to 2.0 * 10^11 J for things like overcoming air friction. If it makes a _controlled_ descent from orbit, then it would take a comparable amount of energy. (If it uses a passive descent like our spacecraft do, then it would require very little energy.) Then it must fly around on its mission, which is generally rather short. However, let's assume a similar amount of energy is reserved for that. All in all, the energy required for such a craft to descend and return to a mother ship for "refueling" is on the order of 5 * 10^11 Joules -- Half a terrajoule of energy. At first sight, this seems like a stupendous amount. But it reality, it is comparable, or even less, than what a 747 would use to fly the Atlantic. E.g., a fully revved up 747 has a power output from its engines of about 400 MegaWatt or 4 * 10^8 J/sec. Substantially less would be required for cruising. But we're still talking about using around a terrajoule of energy for a typical 747 flight. In this respect, the energy requirements of a saucer are quite conventional. See, no "magical" energy requirements are needed. And they might be substantially less if the saucer is lighter for the reasons outlined above. Now to the conventional energy sources. Here are a few possibilities. 1. Beamed energy from mothership, such as microwaves. The advantage to this is that the craft needs no onboard energy storage and its energy supply is virtually unlimited. Such a craft is already on the drawing boards at Rensselaer Polytechnic, the dream child of Leik Myrabo. His proposed 15 meter magnetohydrodynamic saucer would weigh only about 1400 kg, meaning his proposed density for this larger craft is less than a third of what I'm suggesting for mine. This further means that the energy requirements are substantially reduced since there is less mass to move around. Myrabo's craft could receive approximately 6 GigaWatts of continuous microwave energy beamed to it either from space or the ground. Conversion from microwave to electrical energy is done by rectennae, with an energy efficiency of around 85%, below the 90% figure I suggested above. Nonetheless, Myrabo says internal heating problems are managable. Many aspects of this craft are very saucerlike. Microwaves are used to ionize the air directly in front of the craft, creating an "air spike" plasma. This streamlines the airflow eliminating the need for streamlining of the craft itself, creates a partial vacuum in front of the craft drastically reducing skin friction and heating, and possibly eliminates sonic boom. The ionized air flowing past the craft is accelerated by a combination of electrodes and pulsed superconducting magnets. That's the propulsion. Acceleration could be up to 100g and the craft would glow brightly from the ionized air around it. All in all, a very saucer-like craft, and in principle very doable. No "magic" is required, just some very difficult engineering. 2. Magnetic ring storage. In this, the hull of the craft is a superconductor carrying a large current. Energy is stored in the magnetic field. As an example, if the hull is designed to be like 50 turns of wire, the self-inductance, L, of the 10 m craft would be on the order of .01 Henry. If the superconductor carried a current, I, of 10^7 amps, then the energy stored would be 1/2*L*I^2, or our "magic" 500 Gigajoule figure. The maximum magnetic field field generated would be about 100 Tesla, comparable to continuous fields generated by water-cooled experimental laboratory magnets. One advantage of this system is virtually 100% energy conversion efficiency. Magnetic shielding of crew and control systems might be required, but the powerful fields might even be advantageous to a biological crew, since they could conceivably be used to provide partial inertial dampening to high g accelerations, very similar to the recent "floating frog" suspended in a powerful magnetic field. One serious problem is that our best superconducting materials can only carry about 10^5 Amps/cm^2 of current. This would require a hull approximately 10 cm thick to carry the requisite current. The craft would be several times too heavy. A more serious problem with present technology, is we can produce such superconductors only by cooling down to near absolute zero. And higher temperature ceramic superconductors presently have much lower current carrying capacities. What would really be needed is a very high temperature superconductor with an order of magntitude higher current capacity than our best present-day superconductors. 3. Capacitive Storage. The hull of the craft is made into a giant capacitor. Using stacked multi-layer construction and very high dielectric constant material, capacitances on the order of 100 Farad are feasible. The energy stored in the capacitor is 1/2*C*V^2, where C and V are the capacitance and voltage. In this case, a voltage of 10^5 volts would be needed, which is an order of magnitude too high. Better materials more resistant to dielectric breakdown from high voltage would be needed, but this doesn't seem beyond the reach of future material's technology. Heating would also be a problem within the capacitor, so some hybrid solution of power storage might be required. 4. Flywheel Storage. Yes the humble flywheel or turbine. For example, a 500 kg flywheel 1.5 meters across and spun about 10,000 times per second would do the job. Energy efficiency should be as high as present day generators, namely around 98 or 99%. Paul Hill suggested this as a possible solution to saucer energy storage plus efficient conversion of energy. Using present materials, such a flywheel would explode from the centrifugal forces, but the above example isn't too far removed from current experimental high speed flywheels. An order of magnitude improvement in materials strength would be needed, which is theoretically very possible. It is a good bet that a flywheel like this could be built within the next 100 years. 5. Hybrids. A combination of beamed energy plus onboard energy storage would give the saucer some independence from the mother ship over the short term, yet greatly lessen the demands on the energy storage system. If the saucer need only store a few percent of the requisite total energy for it to complete its mission, any of the above energy storage schemes could probably be implemented using present technology and materials, particularly if the saucer is made much lighter in weight than in my conservative example. It is also interesting to note, that the above energy storage systems could be recharged on earth, given a suitable electrical power source. Maybe this explains UFOs sometimes being seen hanging around power lines, perhaps causing blackouts by drawing heavily on the power lines, causing unexpected voltage and current surges, thus flipping protective circuit breakers. Like I said at the beginning, the saucer energy requirements aren't "magic." The energies required are conventional and already being used on our flying craft. The energy storage systems could also be conventional. The technological challenges, particular in the materials needed to construct the energy storage systems, are challenging, but don't seem out of reach. Generally they require about an order of magnitude improvement over present materials in various physical properties. Our fledgling nanotechnology may be able to meet these challenges in the next 100 years, by producing theoretically possible materials of greatly enhanced strength and heat resistance. Even very high temperature superconductors may be possible. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:20:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:13:17 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' Regarding... >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:21:08 -0400 >From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Day Before Roswell' Buck wrote: >To James and the List, >Something has bothered me about these witness accounts for a long >time now. Since it is true that several witnesses described what were >obviously mundane, earthly remnants of whatever crashed near Roswell, >that testimony must carry considerable weight. However, witnesses >also described pieces of debris which apparently had strange >characteristics that seemed anything but mundane. That testimony >_must_ also be considered. Buck, It has been considered and it remains my opinion that the described metal-foil with memory properties hasn't been satisfactorily explained. William Brazel Jr. described foil-like material which was "almost like a plastic, but definitely metallic", Major Marcel stated "I would almost have to describe it as a metal with plastic properties" and Dr Marcel spoke of foil-like material which was "metallic-like but not metal". We also have the following accounts: William Brazel Jr: "you could wrinkle it and lay it back down and it immediately resumed its original shape" "it would flatten out and it was just as smooth as ever" Major Marcel: "it was possible to flex this stuff back and forth, even to wrinkle it, but you could not put a crease in it that would stay" Sgt. Robert Smith: "when you crumpled it up, it then laid back out" Charles Schmid: "you could writhe it up in your hand and it would just straighten out, no kinks, no nothing, it would just straighten out by itself" Frankie Rowe: "when wadded into a ball, it would unfold itself". These are consistent descriptions of a material with, at least, notable crease-resistant properties. If this debris was from a Mogul balloon train, then obviously the described material must have formed part of that construction. One obvious possibility is the radar targets, which, in the 1994 USAF report, Prof. Moore notes "were made up of aluminum foil or foil-backed paper". It is later referred to as "aluminin-colored foil-like material". This would conceivably explain the source, but I haven't seen it demonstrated why that material would resemble a metal alloy with plastic properties. It's difficult so many years after the event and when witness testimonies are based on old memories. Frankie Rowe claims that when a fragment was dropped on the table, "it spread out like it was liquid or quicksilver". As it's a unique description, is it also an exaggeration? Although William Brazel Jr. claimed that when crumpled, "it didn't make a sound" and Frankie Rowe agreed "it made no crinkle, no noise", Sgt. Robert Smith recalls "when you crumpled it up, it then laid back out... when it did, it kind of crackled, making a sound like cellophane...it crackled when it was let out". Are one or more of these testimonies unreliable, or were these witnesses reporting similar materials, but with slightly different properties. We don't know and that's all that can logically be concluded. >I wonder why no one(to my knowledge)has ever suggested the >possibility of a mid-air collision between a weather/Mogul balloon >and a craft of unknown origin. It has come up as a scenario. Starting from an assumption that any debris materials which are not obviously explained are therefore extraterrestrial, is perhaps how the confusion arose in the first place! This reported material wasn't adequately covered in the July 1994 USAF report, but I still believe it could be explained. If I had the time, I wanted to try and contact Charles Moore, lay out the evidence as above and ask if he could solve the mystery. Seen in this context, Prof. Moore might realise what had given rise to these descriptions. As he hasn't to my knowledge addressed the question, he may not fully appreciate it's even an issue. It seems so far as he's concerned, the case has been fully explained. If anyone on the list has a contact address, we could ask for his comments. I would like to think that there is something here which has been overlooked and the witnesses could be vindicated. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:20:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:17:04 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' Regarding... >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:21:08 -0400 >From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Day Before Roswell' Buck wrote: >To James and the List, >Something has bothered me about these witness accounts for a long >time now. Since it is true that several witnesses described what were >obviously mundane, earthly remnants of whatever crashed near Roswell, >that testimony must carry considerable weight. However, witnesses >also described pieces of debris which apparently had strange >characteristics that seemed anything but mundane. That testimony >_must_ also be considered. Buck, It has been considered and it remains my opinion that the described metal-foil with memory properties hasn't been satisfactorily explained. William Brazel Jr. described foil-like material which was "almost like a plastic, but definitely metallic", Major Marcel stated "I would almost have to describe it as a metal with plastic properties" and Dr Marcel spoke of foil-like material which was "metallic-like but not metal". We also have the following accounts: William Brazel Jr: "you could wrinkle it and lay it back down and it immediately resumed its original shape" "it would flatten out and it was just as smooth as ever" Major Marcel: "it was possible to flex this stuff back and forth, even to wrinkle it, but you could not put a crease in it that would stay" Sgt. Robert Smith: "when you crumpled it up, it then laid back out" Charles Schmid: "you could writhe it up in your hand and it would just straighten out, no kinks, no nothing, it would just straighten out by itself" Frankie Rowe: "when wadded into a ball, it would unfold itself". These are consistent descriptions of a material with, at least, notable crease-resistant properties. If this debris was from a Mogul balloon train, then obviously the described material must have formed part of that construction. One obvious possibility is the radar targets, which, in the 1994 USAF report, Prof. Moore notes "were made up of aluminum foil or foil-backed paper". It is later referred to as "aluminin-colored foil-like material". This would conceivably explain the source, but I haven't seen it demonstrated why that material would resemble a metal alloy with plastic properties. It's difficult so many years after the event and when witness testimonies are based on old memories. Frankie Rowe claims that when a fragment was dropped on the table, "it spread out like it was liquid or quicksilver". As it's a unique description, is it also an exaggeration? Although William Brazel Jr. claimed that when crumpled, "it didn't make a sound" and Frankie Rowe agreed "it made no crinkle, no noise", Sgt. Robert Smith recalls "when you crumpled it up, it then laid back out... when it did, it kind of crackled, making a sound like cellophane...it crackled when it was let out". Are one or more of these testimonies unreliable, or were these witnesses reporting similar materials, but with slightly different properties. We don't know and that's all that can logically be concluded. >I wonder why no one(to my knowledge)has ever suggested the >possibility of a mid-air collision between a weather/Mogul balloon >and a craft of unknown origin. It has come up as a scenario. Starting from an assumption that any debris materials which are not obviously explained are therefore extraterrestrial, is perhaps how the confusion arose in the first place! This reported material wasn't adequately covered in the July 1994 USAF report, but I still believe it could be explained. If I had the time, I wanted to try and contact Charles Moore, lay out the evidence as above and ask if he could solve the mystery. Seen in this context, Prof. Moore might realise what had given rise to these descriptions. As he hasn't to my knowledge addressed the question, he may not fully appreciate it's even an issue. It seems so far as he's concerned, the case has been fully explained. If anyone on the list has a contact address, we could ask for his comments. I would like to think that there is something here which has been overlooked and the witnesses could be vindicated. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:17:15 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 08:51:17 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' > Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:21:08 -0400 > From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Day Before Roswell' > > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:36:05 -0400 > > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > > Subject: "The Day Before Roswell" > > To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> > > Is there in fact significant evidence that an alien craft crashed in > > the New Mexico desert, or, is the explanation a Project Mogul balloon > > train, as evidenced in the US Air Force's July 1994 report, which > > affirmed the original findings of researcher Robert Todd. [snip] > Something has bothered me about these witness accounts for a long time > now. Since it is true that several witnesses described what were > obviously mundane, earthly remnants of whatever crashed near Roswell, > that testimony must carry considerable weight. However, witnesses also > described pieces of debris which apparently had strange characteristics > that seemed anything but mundane. That testimony _must_ also be > considered. Considering both sets of seemingly conflicting descriptions, > I wonder why no one(to my knowledge)has ever suggested the possibility > of a mid-air collision between a weather/Mogul balloon and a craft of > unknown origin. That would account for the conflicting descriptions of > the crash debris. It doesn't answer everything about the Roswell puzzle, > but it would allow a few of the pieces to fall in place. Mid-air > collisions _are_ a real and constant concern for _any_ aircraft, and I > would see no reason to exclude that concern for flying disks, whatever > their origin. > Buck Has everybody really forgotten that the testimony in the July 9, l947 RDR article came AFTER Mac Brazel had been grabbed by the army air force and given a new story. July 8 said the recovery took place last week. NOT June 14. Note that the article says the stuff covered an area 200 yards in diameter.. neat trick for a bundle of sticks. The evidence comes from testimony long ago from Bill Brazel, Jesse Marcel, Frank Joyce, Judd Roberts, Loretta Proctor, neighbors etc.In air force terminology the description and the date of recovery are both BOGUS. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:22:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 08:52:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. Compliments of the Duke... >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:36:08 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. [sniperata] >One word: wrong! [...] >There's also a drawing by Arnold included clearly depicting a disk- >shaped object. This took me about 5 minutes to check. Why can't PB >and MK do the same? Arnold's story did vary in its (his) various tellings. However, the drawing in Steiger is from the original USAF report (Case 17, I think) and shows a distinctly non-round object (seen in plan view), albeit a flattish one (side view). It may be in Arnold's own hand, or may be that of the investigating officer. There also exists a photograph of Arnold proudly holding a rather elaborate artwork of distinctly crescent-shaped objects. Neither of these pix shows the "classic" flying saucer. So. What's that one word, again? True, I didn't check, because I didn't have to, in this case. Thanks to everyone (especially J. "Gato" Velez) for their comments so far on this piece... I hope there'll be plenty more. Yours &c Palladino D. Masterbuilder Art Critic
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: UFOSearch #9 part 4b/4: UFO Scenario Analysis From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:29:35 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:41:09 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOSearch #9 part 4b/4: UFO Scenario Analysis > Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:17:34 -0400 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFOSearch #9 part 4b/4: UFO Scenario Analysis: THE KEYHOE SCENARIO > This is part 4b of the fourth part of the ninth essay > by UFOSearch. Part four consists of four sections > designated 4a, 4b, 4c and 4d. > This essay is being published for the first time on > the UFO UpDate mail list. > NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of > the author, Val Germann. If you would like to correspond > with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address > that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not > a permanent email address. The address is: > ufosearch@pipeline.com > Commentary: > The author of these essays has been misidentified. > I feel this may be an important issue for readers > of these essays. So I have asked the author to > respond: > Gary Alevy > Val Germann = Val Valerian? NOT! > Val Germann > Back in the late 1980s I was sent some material from an > organization called "The Nevada Aerial Research Group," (NARG) > whose head honcho was a guy named John Grace, who, I am informed, > is a real person, who used to live in Nevada and maybe still > does. That is about the extent of my knowledge of Mr. Grace > other than that he appears to reside at the far right of the > political spectrum in the United States and believes in so-called > conspiracy theories that would make a Turk blanch. Oh, well. > As I perused the "NARG" material I noticed that Mr. Grace was > sometimes said to write under the name of "Val Valerian," the > name of a 1950's contactee, or actual alien, some said, who was > ensconced in the Pentagon! Oh, well. Years later, when I began > posting to UseNet, I wondered if anyone would bring up this > "similiarity" in names. No one did. Then last year I was > informed that in Volume III of Jerome Clark's UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA I > was IDENTIFIED with John Grace and Val Valerian, that is, my name > was said to be another pseudonym for Mr. Grace. I have tried to > correct this impression by writing to the publisher of the > ENCYCLOPEDIA, with what result I do not know. The error has been corrected in the forthcoming second edition of THE UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA. I apologize to Mr. Germann for the mistake. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Skywatch: soundless C 131s From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:22:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:30:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Skywatch: soundless C 131s > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 22:07:49 -0400 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: soundless C 131s > > From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) > > To: "(Mail List #3)" <skywatch@wic.net> > > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:19:01 -0700 > > Subject: Skywatch: soundless C 131's > > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > > From: ncbuckallew@cp-tel.net (Norm Buckallew) > > To: "skywatch" <skywatch@wic.net> > > Subject: soundless C 131's > > Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 00:10:59 -0500 > > To Sky Watch <skywatch@wic.net > > >From ncbuckallew@cp-tel.net > > Date Aug 3 1997 12:00 A.M. > > Subject soundless C 131's > > Dear Col.... > > A friend that lives in northern Nevada reported to me this evening that > > a couple of days ago he and several others watch at least (20) military > > C 131 cargo planes flying very low over their heads, apparently heading > > for the Nevada test range. > > He stated they were so low the fellows standing in the open cargo doors > > were waving to them as they went over, the strange thing was there was > > no engine noise what so ever. They appeared to been about 200 feet up > > and were flying at no more than fifty miles an hour, Hello UFO list C 131s flying at only 50 mph? Not on this planet my son. That sucker would suffer aerodynamic stall probably more in the range of 100-120 mph and rather than heading into a small pass would head into a big crater at speeds of only 50 mph. > > all heading into > > the small pass that goes toward the test site. He also stated another > > air plane bearing the presidental seal on the side was also seen in the > > same vacinity. > > Just a note that might be interesting. > > Thanks C.B. > It is possible that this may represent an example of the application of > "active noise cancellation technology". Several companies provide this > technology for fixed, stationary machinery and it has also been applied > to ground transportation as well. This technology works very effectively > with repetitive noise/sound producing machinery such as engines. > Gary I donno Gary. That's a pretty good stretch. All of those wave forms rolling around in one area [20 aircraft all producing their own set of standing waveforms] and then stack in their own individual sound cancelling wave forms? Any idea how many watts of sound energy an aircraft engine puts out? Then think of all of the equipment needed to cancel each individual engine of each aircraft not to mention the computers needed to track the sound emissions from each engine. Keep working on it though. It could be that "old dodge" called temp inversion might actually have a home on this one. Took place in one area and seen to happen in another. Some people call them mirages. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:22:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:32:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff At 09:27 PM 08/11/97 -0400, UFO UpDates - Don Ecker wrote: >From: DONFEII@aol.com {Don Ecker] >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:20:00 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Prevarications and Kal Korff >>From: budscan@juno.com (Bud Jamison) >>Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 00:58:28 EDT >>If Art were so concerned with truth, he'd have dug into Brown's claims >>better, and the same with Dames, Shargel, and all the rest. It's only >>when HIS butt is getting chewed that he's so holier-than-thou, and I >>won't listen to such a hypocrite. >Bud; >I was attempting to say the same thing in a subtle way, but >sometimes it is much better to just say it. Be that as it may, >I don't fault Bell for being upset. Truth is truth, I wonder what >Promethus Books will say? I do tend to view this as unfortunate for Kal that he allowed himself to get sucked into erroneously believing that Art Bell would conspire to keep him off radio stations. In the first place, Bell doesn't have that kind of influence, in the second, it's patently ridiculous. He just threw away a great deal of any credibility he may have garnered in the past with this fiasco. Something like this also focuses atttention on his post-n-run messaging style here, the lack of hard data to support his claims and surely must call into serious question his capabilities as a thorough investigator when he can't even deliver on his past promises to members of the List for follow-up. Yes, it's true that people do get busy, have lives outside the computer but when you make a specific point of telling others that you will post supporting information, don't get around to it and are ABRASIVE at the same time, it leaves a bad impression. It's no small wonder why Kal is looked at more as a debunker than as an impartial investigator who is truly interested in pursuing the truth. It didn't help him when months back just before the release of his book that a "mysterious" poster from an AOL account just happened to pop up here to glorify the hype on his book, even before it was actually in print and in bookstores concurrent at the time he was active on the List for several weeks. Even though he protested and said it wasn't him using another AOL account, it was still smelled like elderly fish. I doubt Rebecca will ever get that promised video capture of the "flare smoke" from the Phoenix Sightings, not that I ever truly believed any such visible evidence from a night time video shoot at such a far distance existed in the first place. As for what Prometheus Books will say, probably "no comment" and continue to ring up the cash register on the sales of his books. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: UFO sighting, NYC From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:44:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:34:41 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting, NYC > Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 04:18:44 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting, NYC Very big snip with apologies to Jerry Washington > The sightings that I have had, have _always_ involved the 'object' crossing > the (very busy) landing pattern over Jamaica Bay for Kennedy International. > I don't know about you, but sh*t like that gives me pause to worry about > the safety of incoming and outgoing commercial flights. It would scare the piss out of me too John but I can put your mind to ease on a couple of points you make further on. > They have had > problems in Mexico City with these suckers at their airport for several > years. There is one case, (as per Jaime Maussan) where a commercial > airliner 'bumped' one of these unknowns in mid-air! It's not so much > collision which is a danger as much as the effect that the unknowns have on > the aircrafts electronic systems. Close proximity to UFO's causes the > onboard computer systems to go bonkers and give false readings. ie; > airspeed, altitude etc. No matter how much they take out of the cockpit now-a-days and replace them with computers displaying on CRTs and flatscreens, several items are maintained in a redundent manner. These are ASI [airspeed indicator] which utilizes dynamic ram air pressure to operate in a mechanical fashion, the altimeter which is also mechanical and measures air pressure through a static air port and a magnetic ball compass that still sits atop of the instrument panel in its familiar position. These three are primary instruments and are in all aircraft though duplicated as well in the big screens seen on the newest aircraft. > During takeoff or landing something like that could > be disastrous. According to testimony given by two members of the Mexico > City Airport tower personel to Jaime Maussan in 1995 the pilots are very > concerned about this 'effect.' Bumping into any aircraft with another whether alien or not would probably be disasterous. But you are right when it comes to engine and navigation instruments being disturbed. Not knowing the state, atitude and position of your aircraft in densely packed airspace particularly if you lose radio contact with "center" would be terrifying for any "heavy" pilot lugging up to hundreds of lives behind him. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Wanted: aerospace background From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:14:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:36:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Wanted: aerospace background > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 07:59:50 +0200 (MET DST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > Subject: Wanted: aerospace background > Hi List, > Maybe someone can me help me out with this. > Yesterday I read in the magazine Flight International > that a new aircraft development program is underway in the US, > called FATE (Future Aircraft Technology Enhancement). > The purpose of FATE is to bring together technologies to > build an unmanned military aircraft that would serve as > a fighter. > One of the goals is to increase the 'agility' of the aircraft > compared to current fighters with twenty percent. > Now where do UFOs come in? > I have detailed knowledge of the close encounter between UFOs > and Belgian F16's in March 1990. It was recorded on radar tape that > one of the unknowns accelerated with 40 Gs. This is clear cut > evidence for the ET origin of this vehicle, because terrestrial > craft - fighters - have a maximum acceleration capacity of about > 10 Gs, but effectively 9 Gs. > The main reason for limiting it to 9 Gs has been the safety of > the pilot, because a human can undergo 9 Gs for just > a few seconds. You are right about the pilots but wrong about the stress the aircraft can sustain. The F16s can sustain Gs in the area of 18 to 20 Gs. Most fighter aircraft easily maintain structural capability in excess of the pilots "concious" limitations. If for instance in a combat scenario a pilot blacked out during an extreme manouver the aircraft would attempt to restabilize itself when the pilot went hands off. Even light private aircraft will do this with built in "inherent stability" and will hunt and try to get back to level flight. Military aircraft do this with computers but both will crash after awhile if the human hand is not brought into the picture. I believe that there are military applications now that can tell when the pilot is unconcious or disabled and will resume level flight, turn to a friendly heading and plot a course for home. Airline jets do this now and are capable of, once lined up on the runway, accelearting to V1 then V2, climbing out, setting a course to destination lining up on the runway and landing without the pilots help. The new 777 has a wing G load before failure of over 7 Gs though noone would expect the passengers to endure that. Aerobatic aircraft at airshows such as the Pitts Special, a little bi-plane can sustain over 12 Gs and a Russian monoplane used for the same reasons can sustain 22 Gs, both negative and positive. > In discussions with skeptics I have pointed this out and have > stated that therefore the unknown above Belgium could not have > been terrestrial. One of the counterarguments has been that > perhaps it was a terrestrial, but unmanned craft. > Now a question I would like to have answered. > If we assume that 10 Gs is the maximum acceleration capacity > of current fighters and the FATE program will increase the agility > of the unmanned fighter with 20 percent, does that mean that > the maximum acceleration of the FATE aircraft will be 12 Gs? As I mentioned this is wrong so your increase would be to 24 Gs plus. I would bet on ranges more in the range of 26 to 30 Gs for unpiloted fighters if not more. There is no limit to the technology but as of yet for their own reasons the airforces of certain countries have only gotten into unpiloted vehicles in a limited fashion. Still that is not 40 Gs nor 200 Gs as have been alluded to by Paul R. Hill in his book" Unconventional Flying Objects". Hope this helps Tia. regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:35:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:25:30 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >> Date: 11 Aug 97 08:10:03 EDT >> From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >> >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:41:54 -0500 >> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. Bob Shell writes, >> John, >> I'm not sure why you referenced my message in yours, but I do not and >> have never thought that you or other abductees are hallucinating. I don't >> think you suffer from mental disorders either. I think all of you are >> being subjected to real events, but I am skeptical of many of the >> interpretations of these events. >> The closest thing I have had to an argument with Budd Hopkins was when >> I was trying to convince him to look at the historical evidence and >> realize that the abduction phenomenon is NOT a new thing, and may not >> involve aliens. He, like many other abduction researchers, just does >> not want to hear this. Jim Deardorff writes, >Hi Bob, >I can understand why Budd would not want to spend time arguing over >whether the abduction phenomenon involves aliens or not. He's >investigated way too many cases that do appear to involve aliens, some not >just from the abductees' recollections with or without the help of >hypnosis, but from non-abducted witnesses. Hello Jim, Bob, All, I brought that up in an earlier message that no-one responded to. This business of secondary witnesses, (folks not directly involved in the abduction itself) is an area that has been sorely neglected. The case I cited,'Debbie Jordan' involved her neighbors who witnessed the "UFO" (they experienced electrical failure in the house and witnessed the bright object hovering over Debbies house) _during_ her reported abduction. Why more attention isn't being paid to these very important witnesses is really beyond me. If just one of those accounts could be confirmed/verified it would put this ongoing discussion about abductions onto an entirely different plane. >As for whether or not abduction events, or the UFO phenomenon, occurred in >Earth's historical past, Budd used to (at least some 5 or 10 years ago) >not wish to connect ancient astronauts and sky chariots/vimanas, e.g., to >aliens/UFOs. I presume this was due to his philosophical beliefs -- >whether religious or atheistic. I don't know if he still feels that way >on that subject. Yes, he does. I'm not sure why, but Budd believes that the abduction phenom. is recent (all within this century) He has a couple of cases that date back to the twenties! He admits that they may have been around before that, but getting him to say much on the subject isn't easy. <G> >> But, for those willing to go to the effort, I think reading the >>transcripts of the Salem witch trials, >Thanks for pointing this out. Don't you think it more plausible to >connect these "witches" to a form of the UFO phenomenon as we know it >today, than to connect today's abductees to an even lesser understood >witchcraft phenomenon of the past? I agree wholeheartedly Jim. This 'new' awareness may be due in part to our own technological development. We may just be seeing them more as they really are than any generation that has preceeded us. Humanity simply didn't have a 'frame of reference' before and the incidents were explained in the language of the time. Of course we may be doing the same thing, but I don't think so. We see their technology as just that, 'technology' advanced for sure, but we certainly do not interpret or percieve it as 'magic.' That alone may be what sets us apart from earlier generations. Personal note/speculation. My own personal beliefs about these critters are closer to Fowler's "Watchers" than anything else. I think that they have (always) been here. I have read the Bible and the Bhagavad Gita and in parts they _do_ read like UFO/alien contact reports. Whether 'they' are responsible for mankind or directing our development by genetic engineering or living in a symbiotic relationship with us because we have something they lack, I cannot say. I can tell you that the "invasion" is probably nothing to worry about, it was over eons ago. It all happened long before any of us were even a gleam in our daddy's eye. <G> John Velez, Alien Spawn John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: UFOSearch #9 part 4b/4: UFO Scenario Analysis From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:38:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:41:00 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOSearch #9 part 4b/4: UFO Scenario Analysis I was asked to post this to the list: Gary Alevy Val Valerian/Val Germann: What's In A Name? In a recent message the list administrator stated that I as much as brought on the recent flap over my name by not clearing the problem up, in advance, by posting the fact that Jerry Clark had misidentified me in his UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA, VOLUME III. In response to this I invite list readers to consider what might have happened had I appeared to cast aspersions on Mr. Clark by bringing up his mistake, for no apparent reason and without any provocation? I think I can rest my case. Val Germann Columbia, Missouri August 11, 1997
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:54:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:44:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff > From: Ron Decker <ron_decker@wavebbs.com> > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:44:37 -0500 > Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:01:59 -0400 > Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff > His credibility was not high among some folks here; as far as I'm > concerned it is now nil. > What I would like to know is why Korff felt it necessary to lie? > Did he think Art Bell was going to roll over? Was Korff set up? Where > did he get his information regarding Bell's alleged consipiracy against > him? Or did he cook it up out of thin air? If so, he has some real > problems. As we learned in Reporting 103, the best defense against a > charge of libel is the truth. > I usually listen to the previous night's broadcast while at work. > When I heard Korff's admission I did a double-take and replayed the > first few minutes to be sure I'd heard correctly. As a reader of the > list I don't participate often (if ever) and I was waiting to read the > commentary. Like yourself, I was somewhat surprised that no one had > anything to say regarding Korff's apology as I was sure it would make > thundering copy, at least here. I eagerly await Korff's side of the story as well. I was amazed by his admission on the Art Bell show. Many folks on this list have viewed this man as a debunker. I 've always considered him to be what I call an arch skeptic. A category I would also place Karl Pflock in as one of those investigators that disagree about some of the more widely accepted UFO cases such as Roswell but are still of the opinion that some UFO cases truly represent craft of unknown origin and yield to data that rips away at the very heart of a possible mundane explanation. This is a clear distinction between the true debunkers like Phil Klass that have gone on a slash and burn campaign to assign mundane explanations to all UFO cases irrespective of how much nonsense is required. I agreed with Korff on certain things and disagreed with him on others. I thought his investigations into the Billy Meier case were exceptional and his exposures served to further reinforce something I had always thought to be a hoax from the very beginning but on the other hand the shrewd investigative nature that pierced the enigma of the Meier case was not so apparent with his Roswell investigation and I still think there is good data that he hasn't touced yet a la Mr Rudiak and others. There is no question that what Korff said on Jeff Rense's show blew up in his face but I would like to see Korff's response to what happened in detail before I render final judgment against him. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Aug 97 03:39:42 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:45:24 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:45:38 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 Jim, Good summary of AA points, but why bother? You ain't gonna make a dent in Vince's shield of denial. Vince needs to understand that it's OK not to believe in the AA film if he's so terribly frightened by it, and that this does not make him any less of a man. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:18:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:46:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) To: updates@globalserve.net Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:19:06 +0200 Subject: Moore Denounces UFO Explanation Of Roswell Incident <snip> James Oberg wrote: "(such as aviation incidents involving dangerous accidental or deliberate close passes or intercepts of civilian airliners;" Hmmmmm.... what about airliners that crash in mysterious circumstances? Flight 800, for instance?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 DoD 8-5-97 Press Briefing Comments re: CIA report From: Robert Herloski <herloski@scan.mc.xerox.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 05:32:45 PDT Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:48:28 -0400 Subject: DoD 8-5-97 Press Briefing Comments re: CIA report >From the August 5 DoD News Briefing: http://www.dtic.mil/defenselink/news//Aug1997/t08051997_t0805asd.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: On the UFO study that the CIA did over the weekend, or it was released or reported on over the weekend -- as Pentagon spokesman are you concerned about a report that says that the government willfully misled individuals to conceal programs? A: I've read the CIA study, and I have read what they said about the Air Force. It's their characterization of what the Air Force said. I have not gone back and checked what the Air Force said at the time, so I'd prefer not to comment on what the study said. It is not the policy of Secretary Cohen or any of the people who work for him to mislead the public. Q: Were you at all aware of any misleading of the public that was done by the Air Force prior? A: I was not aware of that. I will say that one interesting aspect of the report was that for years, UFO people have been charging that we've covered up the fact that there really are UFOs, and the CIA study confirms, as has every other study done by the government, that we have no evidence of UFOs. We have no evidence of extraterrestrial visitors to this planet. The study goes on to say that one explanation for many of these sightings might have been airplanes that were being tested at the time. Q: Do you think that applies to any programs that might be tested now, or can you say categorically that the Department does not engage in that kind of public relations activity in terms of programs that are perhaps flying today? A: First of all, we certainly have classified programs and we certainly have legitimate reasons for not disclosing some of the work we're doing, whether it's research and development or whether it's operations. I am not aware that we are putting out stories that misstate the truth about those programs. The distinction would be we just don't talk about the programs at all, so I certainly wouldn't talk about any of those programs today. -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Herloski
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Skywatch: soundless C 131s From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:58:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:43:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Skywatch: soundless C 131s > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:22:11 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Skywatch: soundless C 131s > > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 22:07:49 -0400 > > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Skywatch: soundless C 131s > > > Dear Col.... > > > A friend that lives in northern Nevada reported to me this evening that > > > a couple of days ago he and several others watch at least (20) military > > > C 131 cargo planes flying very low over their heads, apparently heading > > > for the Nevada test range. Hello list members and Gary, When I submitted my two cents worth on this item early this morning I completely missed the C 131 designation of the aircraft which proves to me at least that one should never come home from vacation to a heavy email message load then try to respond to some of them early in the morning. I saw C 131 and read C 130 Hercules aircraft which is probably what the original author was groping for. Anyway thats the aircraft I was referring to. I notice also in some other submissions I made that my spelling errors were far in excess of my usual number. Sorry. I don't want to get Dennis pissed off at me. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:54:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff Like all the others, I had been waiting to hear what was said about this. I rarely get the opportunity to hear Art Bell's program and when he announced Korff as a guest, I wasn't sure I wanted to hear it. I was surprised by the tone of Korff's apology. And while it is true, as pointed out by Rebecca that he didn't use the word lie, he did say that what he had said about Bell was untrue. Well, saying something that is untrue is to lie. There is another issue here. We have all seen Korff's book. We have had to put up with his arguments. I pointed out that he reported, obviously without checking, that the Roswell Fire Department didn't make runs outside the city limits. If that was true, then we could reject the story of Frankie Rowe. But Korff NEVER checked. Had he done so, he would have learned that in 1947, the Roswell Fire Department DID make runs outside the city limits. He cannot, nor can anyone else, reject Frankie Rowe because of that. It doesn't mean that her tale is true, only that it can't be rejected for that reason. Now this might seem like trivia, but it demonstrates something about Korff's work. He doesn't check the facts, he merely repeats everything negative that he can find. We can go through his book and find example after example of his repeating "facts" that he didn't check. When he began to promote his book on this forum, I asked him if there were any facts in his book that were new. Did he discover anything himself. He never answered that question either. So I'll ask it once again. Is there anything in the book that you learned on your own that is new and different? KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Alfred's Odd Ode #167 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:13:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:59:28 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #167 Apology to MW #167 (For August 12, 1997) What right have you to as much as is possible? What right have you to make people your slaves? What right have you to unkind separations That sully your spirit, and make you unbrave? Where is your right to your ethics sweet camber? Where is your right to an ignorant vote? Where is your right to an end for all welfare Designed as an obstacle, and so, then, a joke! Where is your right to convenient position? Where is your right to apply, just, your list? Where is your pity, your mercy -- compassion As you study the age marks on fingers or wrist. . . The meter man's minions mewl from their bibles Regarding the liberal press. The same whining occurs from the mouths of these people That schools have gone liberal! Why? Can you guess? Assume that it's true as it probably is; Can you figure the mechanics? If too liberal, why? Ask the question! Become calm, and retreat from your panic! Teachers and reporters read from true books Forbidden early education. They have studied the lay, and the heart of cruel man; They have studied his orientation. Journalists and teachers are part of base mankind=20 With a scintilla of humanity, you see? What's been wrought is justicelessness; Their learning's set them free! Fear of blacks and homosexuals is a lie from the beginning. And our earth is crying out with abject pains. Most teacher's and reporters have a shred of sensitivity; They have an ounce of human feeling in their brains! This is why they're seeing level on a slanted playing field. Education's made them savvy sordid suffering. They teach and report what experience tells them The conservative counters with cool cozy stuttering. It takes a normal sensibility to see a well marked card. And you cop to implication, quick as crap! We'll, the cards that have been dealt were always crooked from the start. The marks are in their language, as they set their cold blood trap. The trap's in a credit card, or their money machines, Or they trap as they lease you a car. Or the really good deal that is made on home owners. Or the trap that they've laid in their bars. The rich _can_ manipulate; the record is clear. So thank God for those with liberal brawn. Those with the courage for both sides of the aisle Here at the last d=E9nouement. No, reporters and teachers are liberal for a reason. They go and they do and they see and they study . . . If what they have seen, then, has pushed them more liberal; Then what they are saying should be heard by YOU, buddy! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Or, buddy-ette, as the case may be.=20 If they _are_ liberal, then why are they that way? And it can only be that as an *investigation* is performed -- academic, or journalistic -- certain fact's, onerous or otherwise, can come to LIGHT! Your garden variety human being, with any ethical training at all, is going to be able to determine who had done what to whom, first, in most cases. An _unbiased_ investigation ( or taking an Alien View) compels the normal person with a scintilla of human sensitivity to a, perhaps, more liberal cant. But it comes as a result of the search, a continuous and honest education -- the rising and advancing of the individual spirit. It comes down to paying your fair share, now -- and reaping the benefits in a future year as meaningful production increases because there is more money to spend, and more money to save. =20 I know what I used to think (with a rightest cant) back on active duty. . .I used to have respect, and admiration for Ollie North (heavy sigh!). I was conservative . . . Then I read books from both sides of the aisle -- and my liberalism becomes a starship! The more that I read, and understand -- the more liberal I become, and the closer, still, become the stars! This, then, is the mechanics of a liberal press and our upper education. It is difficult to immerse yourself in the underbelly of cold fact -- and then NOT become more liberal! --=20 Explore the Alien View?=20 =20 http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from=20 afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the=20 fundamentalist's stake, a victim of an elitist trap. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies=20 (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind=20 in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not=20 living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented=20 support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." =20 ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: RTodd12191@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:42:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon > From: DRudiak@aol.com > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 15:18:30 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Bursting the Balloon, Pflock (2) >>From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:37 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon << This is a response to certain points David Rudiak raised in the posting identified above, in which he quotes Karl Pflock regarding Major Marcel's claim that he flew "as" a pilot, waist gunner, and bombardier during World War II. Rudiak quoting Pflock (various snips made for brevity's sake, and because Windows won't support Rudiak's verbosity): >> he wasn't a rated (flying or air-crew) officer, > And where did Marcel ever claim that he was? All he said was > that he WAS the intelligence officer for the bomb wing and that > on his combat bombing missions he sometimes acted AS a pilot, > bombardier, or gunner, not the he WAS any of these. This is hardly > a fantastic claim, since military personnel often take someone else's > position if they are incapacitated, killed, or in need of relief, even > when they aren't rated for the job. Marcel NEVER claimed to be > anything other than an intelligence officer while in the service. < Hogwash! This is a distinction without a difference. Marcel stated that he "flew as a pilot, waist gunner and bombardier at different times." He also flew "as" a combat intelligence officer, which is the only thing that can be documented. There isn't a shred of documentaion to show Marcel ever flew an aircraft of any kind at any time, either as a civilian or while in the military. And as far as Rudiak's speculation that Marcel might have been called upon to fly an aircraft because the pilot and co-pilot were incapacitated, you can be certain that, had such an event actually occurred, not only would the Walter Mitty from Louisiana have related those details to Pratt, he would have embellished them as well. Again, Rudiak quoting Pflock, regarding the fact that Marcel was not a rated pilot: > and as was noted in his fitness reports, this limited his prospects in > those days. > Pflock is just repeating Robert Todd's nonsense, where Todd misrepresents > comments written by Gen. Ramey about Marcel a year after the Roswell > events. These are rather mild statements from Rudiak. In other postings to UFO UpDates, Rudiak has called me a liar, as well as the civilian point man in the Air Force�s smear campaign against Marcel; and has suggested or stated outright that the Air Force slipped me Marcel's personnel file under the table -- which would mean I came into possession of that file illegally, and that I would be subject to criminal prosecution. What I said in my article on the lying little major was the following: �In another document in the file, dated 19 August 1948, General Ramey specifically stated that Marcel was _NOT_ a rated pilot, a fact Ramey noted would limit Marcel�s career in the Air Force.� Later in his posting, Rudiak quotes the very same portion of the document I summarized in my quote above (some segments snipped for the sake of brevity): > "Since this officer is not a rated pilot his assumption of the > position of Commanding General is not a consideration. However, > his past performance and progress have been of such a nature and > calibre to justify presumption that, within the next ten years, this > officer could assume a position of responsibility commensurate > with that of an Air Force Commander." > All Ramey was saying was that Marcel wasn't a regular Air Force fly-boy, > so he wasn't going to make General. But in spite of that, Ramey thought > he would become a command officer based on the "outstanding" calibre > of his past performance. That certainly doesn't sound like the description > of somebody who allegedly screwed up a tinfoil ID and chased Irving > Newton around Ramey's office a year earlier, does it? And it wasn't > exactly saying his "prospects were limited" either. So, Rudiak admits that Marcel was limited to positions below general. Was that not a limitation on his career in the Air Force, exactly as I had stated? Yet Rudiak DELIBERATELY misrepresented the nature of my statement, in an attempt to salvage the lying little major�s credibility by attempting to destroy mine. I misrepresented NOTHING! I lied about NOTHING! Rudiak is the liar here. It isn't my fault if Rudiak read into my statement far more than was there. Nowhere does Rudiak address the lies Marcel told about his education, claiming he finished his degree in physics at the George Washington University, and claiming he attended the Louisiana State University (LSU). Neither university has ANY record of the lying little major. Rudiak doesn't address these lies because he can't dream up contrived explanations for them. <Snippety-snip, tra-la, tra-la.> Rudiak, again quoting Pflock: >> In any event, while all of this is interesting, the fact is, it's >> essentially academic. The formerly classified record--created >> decades before FOIA--proves no flying saucer crashed in New >> Mexico or anywhere else in U.S. territory or jurisdiction at any >> time before mid-1955. Records may not have surfaced which prove >> what did "crash" at Roswell, but records most certainly have >> surfaced to show what did NOT crash at Roswell. What did NOT >> crash at Roswell was an alien spaceship. Twining's September 23, >> 1947, proves this. << To which the Rudiak, apparently in another, uncontrollable fit of religious zeal, responds: > Nonsense! Twining wouldn't admit to having a saucer in his basement > in a memo classified at only the SECRET level and intended for wide > distribution to the various government and military agencies named in > the memo. The primary purpose of the memo was to get these > agencies to take flying saucers seriously, and to help in the gathering > of intelligence. As it was, Twining said that he and his command, > including his engineering laboratories, considered the saucers to [sic] > utterly real flying craft under intelligent control. The fact that he > had to even include a denial of having any physical evidence is in > itself interesting, and suggests that there may have been rumors > circulating to the contrary. A little plausible deniability never hurts > if you're trying to keep the lid on a stupendous secret. Rudiak, of course, is referring to the September 23, 1947 letter from Gen. Twining to the Commanding General, Army Air Forces, rendering the Air Materiel Command�s (AMC) opinion on the flying discs, in which Twining stated that, �Due consideration must be given [to] . . . [t]he lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these objects.� Yes, Rudiak is correct when he stated that Twining�s letter (not a memo) was classified �only . . . SECRET,� but his religious zeal rears its ugly head again when he claims the letter was �intended for wide distribution to the various government and military agencies named in the memo [sic]�. Twining�s letter was addressed to the Commanding General of the Army Air Forces (to the attention of Brig. Gen. Schulgen, who headed the intelligence Collection Branch within the office of the Assistant Chief of Air Staff-2, Intelligence), and nowhere else. In short, Twining was reporting to his superiors in the Pentagon, not to everybody and his grandmother in government. Rudiak's contention is that Twining wouldn�t have mentioned crashed flying discs -- which Rudiak and a number of other religious zealots believe would have been classified Top Secret -- in a letter that had been classified �only Secret.� Although it�s a rather large assumption to say the fact that an alien spaceship crashed would have been classified at all, let�s just say they didn�t want even that information released, and that it was indeed classified Top Secret. Twining was reporting to his superiors in the Pentagon. If he had some know- ledge of physical evidence of crashed flying discs, he would have put it in his letter and classified the letter Top Secret. If, for some completely unfathomable reason, he didn�t want to mention the existence of physical evidence in the same letter (be it Secret or Top Secret), he might have written a Top Secret supplement to his letter to be delivered separately from his letter, and he simply would have avoided any mention of physical evidence in the letter. He would _NOT_ have lied to his superiors about the existence of physical evidence, he simply would have avoided any mention of physical evidence and left that for the Top Secret supplement. Of course, this latter scenario makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If he had something Top Secret to say, he would have put it in the same letter and classified the letter Top Secret. He wouldn�t have lied to his superiors about the existence of physical evidence. Rudiak's bizarre misrepresentations are the same ridiculous misrepresentations that Kevin �Wrong Way� Randle and Stanton �Blather King� Firedman have made in the past, Firedman most recently in his preposterous attack on Kent Jeffrey. Rudiak again quotes Pflock regarding the official documents that prove conclusively that the Roswell incident did NOT involve an alien spaceship: >> The companion study prepared by AF Intel at HQ USAF >> proves this. The minutes of the USAF Scientific Advisory Board >> meeting of March 17-18, 1948, prove this. The early Nov. '48 >> letter from AMC chief of technical intelligence Col. Howard McCoy >> to AF chief of intel MG Charles Cabell proves this. To which Rudiak responds, and quotes Jean van Gemert (who also has called me a liar in postings to UFO UpDates): > Just another denial from somebody who may or may not have known > if there was physical evidence. To quote from Jean van Gemert on > Usenet: >>"McCoy at the time was chief of T-2 (located at _Patterson_ Field), >>which had an intelligence gathering function. Project Sign (which he >>mentions in his 1948 talk at the Pentagon) was also located there, and >>he was responsible for it. Now imagine if debris had been found. Would >>it have been shipped to T-2? Not likely! Instead, it probably would >>have been sent to T-3, Engineering Research and Development (at Wright >>Field) which wasn't McCoy's division at all. The bottom line is that >>McCoy could *easily* have been left in the dark because there was no >>need for him to know." McCoy was head of the Intelligence Department of the AMC, which also made him the (or one of the) Deputy Commanding General(s) of AMC. More importantly, the engineering people and the technical intelligence people at Wright Field ALWAYS worked closely together, since they depended on information and analysis from one another. These two functions are closely linked together. That�s a FACT that is absolutely clear to anybody with even a passing familiarity with the histories of these organizations. If Twining knew about a crashed saucer, so would McCoy. And there McCoy was talking to the top scientists associated with the Air Force who were addressing the Air Force�s most serious problems, and McCoy doesn�t inform them that the Air Force recovered an alien spaceship. It defies logic, reason, and common sense to suggest that McCoy didn't know, or, if he knew, didn't tell the scientists present at the SAB meeting, but it appeals to Rudiak: > I think that's a good argument. Compartmentalization of the big secret > could easily have kept McCoy away from it, or even if he did know, he > could have even been under orders to misdirect others without proper > clearance. >> So do a number of other documents from the same time period and later >> prove this. To any reasonable person, this is CONCLUSIVE proof of >> what the Roswell incident did NOT involve. CASE CLOSED! << > Hardly conclusive in the least. The day after a spectacular green > fireball incident on Jan 30, 1949, which exploded and broke up near > Roswell, the FBI was briefed that the subject of flying saucers was > classified Top Secret by Army and Air Force intelligence. On the same > day were two Confidential Army Staff messages about the fireball > incident. One of them read, "...all out investigation of possible > crashed saucer, OK'd." Somebody obviously took the possibility of > crashed flying saucers VERY seriously. That's rather strange if there > was allegedly no evidence of any previous crashed saucers. Hogwash! In his September 23 letter, Twining raised the issue of physical evidence as a point arguing AGAINST the existence of the flying discs. Had the flying discs been real, the intelligence and the engineering people would expect one of them to crash sooner or later, leaving behind crash debris, which obviously did not exist at the time Twining wrote his letter. If the flying discs were real, yeah, everybody in the Air Force would expect one to crash, so why would they not launch an "all-out investigation" when circumstances arose that indicated one possibly had crashed? > But the important point is that the FBI was told the subject was Top > Secret. Where are all those Top Secret documents that must exist? All > I generally hear about are the Secret or lower classified ones, like the > Twining memo and the ones where McCoy is quoted. That hardly > constitutes "proof." Further, we know that the original Top Secret > Project Sign Estimate, the one that preceded the above mentioned Top > Secret companion study, came to the conclusion that flying saucers were > extraterrestrial. > The official record also is quite clear that the Air Force treated the green fire-ball mystery differently than they treated the flying discs. Although the green fireballs (at least eventually) were presumed (due largely to the influence of of a member of the SAB) to be a natural phenomenon, the proximity of the green fireball observations to atomic energy R&D facilities clearly was of great concern not only to the Air Force, but to the personnel of the atomic energy installations in the area. And given Dr. Lincoln LaPaz's expertise in the field of meteors, and his opinion that the green fireballs were ranging shots which would be replaced with explosives at some point, yeah, it was considered serious, but the "Top Secret" might well have been more figurative than literal, hyperbole used only to impress upon the FBI the seriousness with which the various agencies took the green fireball observations. There isn't even a hint that any green fireball documents were classified Top Secret, although documentation has surfaced which clearly shows the Air Force didn't want the Project Twinkle Final Report released because the Air Force never came up with satisfactory explanations for the green fireballs. More importantly, it is clear from Rudiak's statements quoted above that he doesn�t even know to which �companion study� Pflock was referring. The companion study Pflock mentioned was classified �only Secret� and accompanied Twining�s letter to the Air Force�s Director of Research and Development, where the decision was made to start Project Sign. It should be noted that the Air Force Director of Research and Development was responsible for any Engineering T-3 R&D projects underway at Wright Field, so one might reasonably expect that he would have a need to know about the crashed saucer that van Germert contends was under study by the engineering/ R&D people at Wright Field. The "companion study" was prepared at Air Force headquarters and, like Twining's letter, said that, "Flying discs, as reported by widely scattered observers, probably represent something real and tangible, even though physical evidence, such as crash-recovered exhibits, is not available." So Twining didn't know about the Roswell alien spaceship, or if he knew, he lied to his superiors about it. And McCoy didn't know about the Roswell alien space-ship, or if he knew, he lied to the Air Force's top scientists. And Air Force Intelligence in the Pentagon didn't know about the Roswell alien spaceship, or if they knew, they lied to the Air Force's Director of Research and Development. Yeah, right, anything you say. How long will the UFO field tolerate these contrived "explanations" that explain nothing? The fact that Rudiak, Randle and Firedman (among others) resort to such pathetically absurd arguments to explain uncomfortable facts should be a clear indication of just how incredibly weak the alien spaceship claim really it. But the faithful eat up these lame contrivances because it allows them to keep the faith. I suggest that Rudiak and van Gemert both get a copy of the book, UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL: THE GENESIS OF A MODERN MYTH, by Drs. Benson Saler, Charles Ziegler, and Prof. Charles Moore (the latter of New York University/ Project Mogul fame) for some insight into their fanatical beliefs. Indeed, anybody with an interest in the subject of UFOs should read the book. Robert Todd P.S. For those who have an interest in actually reading the new Air Force report, THE ROSWELL REPORT: CASE CLOSED, before shooting off their mouths or their computers, I happened to be in a Barnes & Noble bookstore today and saw they had a large supply on their shelf, sellling for $12.95 a copy. Apparently the report finally has been printed in quantity.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Martin Waterman? From: "Kevin O'Keefe" <kokeefe@web.net> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:03:29 -0400 Subject: Martin Waterman? Does anyone know how to get in touch with Martin Waterman? Apparently he's involved in a TV program on UFO's? Thanks, Kevin O'Keefe kokeefe@web.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:06:07 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:20:54 -0400 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Regarding... > >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:21:08 -0400 > >From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Day Before Roswell' > Buck wrote: > >To James and the List, > >Something has bothered me about these witness accounts for a long > >time now. Since it is true that several witnesses described what were > >obviously mundane, earthly remnants of whatever crashed near Roswell, > >that testimony must carry considerable weight. However, witnesses > >also described pieces of debris which apparently had strange > >characteristics that seemed anything but mundane. That testimony > >_must_ also be considered. > Buck, > It has been considered and it remains my opinion that the described > metal-foil with memory properties hasn't been satisfactorily > explained. In reality, James Easton left out EVERY anomalous debris description. It wan't JUST the foil. This has always bothered me about James Easton's tracts. When you omit conflicting evidence, you can prove anything you want. > William Brazel Jr. described foil-like material which was "almost like > a plastic, but definitely metallic", Major Marcel stated "I would > almost have to describe it as a metal with plastic properties" and Dr > Marcel spoke of foil-like material which was "metallic-like but not > metal". Testimony given completely independently at around the same time. Brazel Jr. and Marcel never met. Very similar description of the large debris field, an explosion, and the time of discovery by Brazel Sr. were given as well. > We also have the following accounts: > William Brazel Jr: > "you could wrinkle it and lay it back down and it immediately resumed > its original shape" > "it would flatten out and it was just as smooth as ever" Add: "I couldn't tear it. Hell, tin foil or lead foil is easy but I couldn't tear it. I didn't take pliers or anything. I just used my fingers. I didn't try to cut it with my knife. The color was consistent through the pieces I found. It was a dull color [and the same on both sides]." So the "foil" couldn't be easily torn and was dull in color, unlike shiny aluminum foil or aluminized plastics. > Major Marcel: > "it was possible to flex this stuff back and forth, even to wrinkle > it, but you could not put a crease in it that would stay" Marcel also said about the properties of thing metal pieces: "[There were] many bits of metallic foil, that looked like, but was not, aluminum, for no matter how often one crumpled it, it regained its original shape again. Besides that, they were indestructible, even with a sledgehammer." "The metal fragments varied in size up to six inches in length, but were the thickness of tinfoil. The fragments were unusual because they were of great strength. They could not be bent or broken, no matter what pressure we applied by hand." "I wanted to see some of the stuff burn, but all I had was a cigarette lighter ... I lit the cigarette lighter to some of this stuff and it didn't burn." "We did all we could to bend it. It would not bend and you could not tear it or cut it either. We even tried making a dent in it with a sixteen-pound sledgehammer, and there was still no dent in it..." Again, great strength and resistance to damage of all kinds. The inability to cut it or burn it rules out a great many materials, including plastics of the day. > > Sgt. Robert Smith: > "when you crumpled it up, it then laid back out" > Charles Schmid: > "you could writhe it up in your hand and it would just straighten out, > no kinks, no nothing, it would just straighten out by itself" The sentence before read: "There was some material that looked just like tinfoil, but quite strong." About a thicker piece of metal, Schmid said: " ...there was pieces of material that looked like aluminum, real light stuff, but strong. It was about 16 inches by 2 1/2 inches and maybe a quarter inch thick. You couldn't bend it or twist it or do anything with it. Even by putting it up against a rock and jumping up and down, you could not bend it." Again great strength is noted. > Frankie Rowe: > "when wadded into a ball, it would unfold itself". Add: "It was a dull gray and about the thickness of aluminum foil. When wadded into a ball, it would unfold itself. The fire fighters were unable to cut or burn it." Here are some more first-hand descriptions: Sgt. Lewis Rickett: "Rickett said the foil was dull, like the back side of aluminum foil, and because it didn't reflect the sun, it was hard to see." "[The material] was very strong and very light. You could bend it but couldn't crease it. As far as I know, no one ever figured out what it was made of...." "One man set a piece on the ground and jumped on it, trying to dent or bend it, and failed." "There was a slightly curved piece of metal, real light. It was about six inches by twelve or fourteen inches. Very light. I crouched down and tried to snap it. My boss [Cavitt] laughs and said, 'Smart guy. He's trying to do what we couldn't do.' I asked, 'what in the hell is this stuff made out of?' It didn't feel like plastic and I never saw a piece of metal this thin that you couldn't break." Bessy Brazel Schreiber: "Most of it was a kind of double-sided material, foil-like on one side and rubber-like on the other. Both sides were grayish-silver in color, the foil more silvery than the rubber. ...The foil-rubber material could not be torn like ordinary aluminum foil can be torn..." Sally Strickland Tadolini: "What Bill [Brazel Jr.] showed us ...was something like aluminum foil, something like satin, something like well-tanned leather in its toughness, yet was not precisely like any one of those materials. ... It was about the thickness of a very fine kidskin glove leather and a dull metallic grayish silver, one side slightly darker than the other. It was very silky or satiny, with the same texture on both sides. ...When it was released, it sprang back into its original shape, quickly flattening out with no wrinkles. ... I remember some of the others stretching it between their hands and "popping" it, but I do not think anyone tried to cut or tear it." Second-hand descriptions: Gen. Arthur Exon: "...couldn't be easily ripped or changed ...you could change it. You could wad it up, you could change the shape, but it was still there and ... there were other parts of it that were very thin but awfully strong and culdn't be dented with heavy hammers and stuff like that... which at the time were causing some people some concern... again, say it was a shape of some kind, you could grab this end and bend it, but it would come right back. It was flexible to a degree." Marian Strickland: My daughter says that it could be crumpled up and straighten right back out." Loretta Proctor: " ...'Mac' [W. Brazel] said the other material on the property looked like aluminum foil. It was very flexible and wouldn't crush or burn." "He said the stuff that looked kind of like aluminum foil, he said you'd crumple it up and then it would straighten out, it wouldn't stay creased, it would just open out. ... He said he couldn't cut it or anything." > These are consistent descriptions of a material with, at least, > notable crease-resistant properties. Much more than just crease-resistance. Easton makes it sound like they were describing a pair of polyester pants. There was an material with some sort of shape-memory. It actively returned to its original shape. Further there were repeated descriptions of being unable to cut, tear, or burn the material, and of it being dull grey in color. Some of the thin metal descriptions were of a material that was too stiff and strong to bend. > If this debris was from a Mogul balloon train, then obviously the > described material must have formed part of that construction. Indeed. Can you possibly imagine any sort of balloon material which would fit the above descriptions? > One obvious possibility is the radar targets, which, in the 1994 USAF > report, Prof. Moore notes "were made up of aluminum foil or > foil-backed paper". It is later referred to as "aluminin-colored > foil-like material". > This would conceivably explain the source, but I haven't seen it > demonstrated why that material would resemble a metal alloy with > plastic properties. Nor would it explain descriptions of: 1. Being unable to cut it (the foil paper was very lightweight and fragile) 2. Being unable to burn it (paper burns) 3. Being unable to tear it. 4. Dull grey color 5. Too stiff to bend or break even with extreme force 6. Active shape-memory properties > It's difficult so many years after the event and when witness > testimonies are based on old memories. Why is this always one-sided? If somebody says aluminum foil, it's accepted. But if many say foil of great strength with active shape-memory, this is passed off as artifacts of "old memories." > Frankie Rowe claims that when a fragment was dropped on the table, "it > spread out like it was liquid or quicksilver". > As it's a unique description, is it also an exaggeration? Maybe just a idiosyncratic way of describing how the material spontaneously unfolded itself when released. > Although William Brazel Jr. claimed that when crumpled, "it didn't > make a sound" and Frankie Rowe agreed "it made no crinkle, no noise", > Sgt. Robert Smith recalls "when you crumpled it up, it then laid back > out... when it did, it kind of crackled, making a sound like > cellophane...it crackled when it was let out". > Are one or more of these testimonies unreliable, or were these > witnesses reporting similar materials, but with slightly different > properties. > We don't know and that's all that can logically be concluded. We can logically conclude that a great many people were describing strikingly similar anomalous properties for some thin metal material. We can also logically conclude that James Easton neglected to mention any of these in his original Mogul trumpeting tract. We can also conclude that James Easton continued to ignore some of these properties such as active memory, strength, noncuttability, and flame-resistance. Like I said, if you ignore the conflicting evidence, then its possible to prove anything at all. > I would like to think that there is something here which has been > overlooked and the witnesses could be vindicated. I seriously doubt it. There was nothing on these Moguls that even remotely fit these debris descriptions. Trying to pass it off as foil-paper is laughable. I should like to add, that the thin metal/foil wasn't the only debris with anomalous descriptions. Another less commonly described one was the wood-like material. Here are some of the descriptions: Loretta Proctor: " "The piece he [Brazel] brought looked like a kind of tan, light brown plastic. It was very lightweight, like balsa wood. It wasn't a large piece, maybe about four inches long, maybe just a little larger than a pencil. We cut on it with a knife and would hold a match on it, and it wouldn't burn. We knew it wasn't wood. It was smooth like plastic, it didn't have a real sharp corners, kind of like a dowel stick. Kind of dark tan. It didn't have any grain, just smooth." It was kind of a tan color, kind of what we would say plastic now, but we didn't have plastic then. You couldn't cut it, or burn it, or whittle it -- just very, very hard. It was very light, it seemed to be." Bill Brazel Jr. "[There were also] some wooden-like particles like balsa wood in weight, but a bit darker in color and much harder.... It was pliable but wouldn't break. Weighed nothing, but you couldn't scratch it with your fingernail." "Some of it was like balsa wood: real light and kind of neutral color, more of a tan. To the best of my memory, there wasn't any grain in it. Couldn't break it-- it'd flex a little. I couldn't whittle it with my pocket knife." These were like balsa wood in weight, but a bit darker in color and much harder. You know the thing about wood is that the harder it gets, the heavier it is. Mahogany, for example is quite heavy. This stuff, on the other hand, weighed nothing, yet you couldn't scratch it with your fingernail like ordinary balsa, and you couldn't break it either. It was pliable, but wouldn't break. It never occurred to me to try to burn it so I don't know if it would burn or not." Major Jesse Marcel: "These looked something like balsa wood, and were of about the same weight, except that they were not wood at all. They were very hard, although flexible, and would not burn." "...little members, small members, solid members that could not bend or break, but it didn't look like metal. It looked more like wood. "...these little members could not be broken, could not be burned." Again, the consistent description is of a material that couldn't be cut, broken, or burned, and extremely light in weight. Also the material was consistently described as extremely hard. These are not the descriptions of balsa wood coated with Elmer's glue. There were descriptions of other anomalous materials, but these were the major ones. There were no descriptions of any rubber balloons or their remains (discounting Brazel's press conference while in military custody), nor were there any descriptions of the hundreds of feet of nylon balloon twine that held the Mogul balloon train together. These are very notable absences, particularly the balloons, which were far and away the major constituent of the alleged Mogul crash object. To my mind, the very large number of consistent descriptions of highly anomalous materials have always been the central enigma of the Roswell case. Trying to pretend that these don't exist or can simply be written off to aging memories I find to be intellectually dishonest. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 10:59:43 cst Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:07:07 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >Date: 12 Aug 97 03:39:42 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >Jim, >Good summary of AA points, but why bother? >You ain't gonna make a dent in Vince's shield of denial. Vince needs >to understand that it's OK not to believe in the AA film if he's so >terribly frightened by it, and that this does not make him any less >of a man. You heartless monster! How dare you expose my fearful hypotesticularity! Sniff...sniff... (That's the sound of my girlish sobbing, not a film analysis) While we're discussing my "shield of denial," perhaps you'll take the opportunity to publicly deny that you have never, at any time, personally examined a single intact (with edge codes) frame of the first-generation print of the AA "film" that bears an image of the "alien" and/or the "autopsy suite." Just once for posterity, Bob. Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:08:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:35:21 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:25:30 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > Hello Jim, Bob, All, > I brought that up in an earlier message that no-one responded to. This > business of secondary witnesses, (folks not directly involved in the > abduction itself) is an area that has been sorely neglected. The case I > cited,'Debbie Jordan' involved her neighbors who witnessed the "UFO" (they > experienced electrical failure in the house and witnessed the bright object > hovering over Debbies house) _during_ her reported abduction. Why more > attention isn't being paid to these very important witnesses is really > beyond me. If just one of those accounts could be confirmed/verified it > would put this ongoing discussion about abductions onto an entirely > different plane. Hello John, They have been confirmed. When a second witness, or even a third witness, confirms the first witness's confirmation of the abductee's account, that's really strong verification. Perhaps someone has a list of all such cases they know of, with references and page numbers, they could post. Two that stand out in my mind are the Allagash Abductions and witnesses to Linda Cortile's abduction. It used to be thought that a UFO sighting or abduction is so bizarre, so extraordinary, that it would take an extraordinary amount of evidence to verify it. After 30-50 years of being exposed to such events, however, and after realizing that it's more plausible than not that aliens way advanced over us not only exist but are around and aware of us, and capable of doing what should seem like magic to us, it not longer seems so extraordinary to many of us. So it should no longer be considered to require an extraordinary amount of evidence to verify the reality of UFO abductions, at least by those of us who have looked into the matter. We can, moreover, take account of the cumulative effect of hundreds or thousands of such cases, as science should be doing, as providing overwhelming confirmatory evidence. It is only those who demand that each UFO abduction case be considered totally bizarre all over again, and treated as if no other previous cases had occurred, and no UFO sightings, who will never be satisfied with the amount and quality of verification. > Personal note/speculation. > My own personal beliefs about these critters are closer to Fowler's > "Watchers" than anything else. I think that they have (always) been here. > I have read the Bible and the Bhagavad Gita and in parts they _do_ read > like UFO/alien contact reports. Whether 'they' are responsible for mankind > or directing our development by genetic engineering or living in a > symbiotic relationship with us because we have something they lack, I > cannot say. I can tell you that the "invasion" is probably nothing to worry > about, it was over eons ago. It all happened long before any of us were > even a gleam in our daddy's eye. <G> The only qualifications I would add to this are that "they" are probably different alien groups from time to time, who perhaps have been operating under special rules the past half century or so, and that no one of these groups need have been here all the time, but could have come and gone and revisited. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:25:51 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:09:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:22:38 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> >Subject: Of Martian Cats, etc. >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Arnold's story did vary in its (his) various tellings. However, the >drawing in Steiger is from the original USAF report (Case 17, I think) >and shows a distinctly non-round object (seen in plan view), albeit a >flattish one (side view). It may be in Arnold's own hand, or may be >that of the investigating officer. I had anticipated here that Peter would snip my citation from Arnold's actual letter and focus instead on the drawing. I'll just have to do it all over again. From Steiger, p. 30, and these are Kenneth Arnold's words, not mine: "As I was flying in the direction of this particular ridge, I measured it and found it to be approximately five miles so I could safely assume that the _chain of these saucer like ob- jects_ [emphasis mine] was at least five miles long." On page 31 Arnold says: "When the sun reflected from one or two of these units they appeared to be completely round." The top drawing in the file is not completely round, true, but it is not "distinctly non-round" either despite what Peter here would have you believe. It's semi-circular instead. And if you extrapolate the lateral view from Arnold's top view drawing, you would end up with something different than is depicted in his side view drawing (which _is_ circular). The point here, however, is how people ignore Arnold's first, and presumably most accurate, description to bolster their claim that Arnold never saw circular-shaped craft, making "flying saucers" just an invention by the media. Arnold's own letter to the Air Force, written just a few days after his sighting, dispels that fantasy. (which do you believe is a more accurate record of what Arnold saw? Arnold's original commentary or the embellishment that peaked with publication of his book "Comming of the Saucers"?) No amount of squirming will help Peter here. __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:53:21 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:10:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Date: 11 Aug 97 08:10:03 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >But, for those willing to go to the effort, I think reading the transcripts >of the Salem witch trials, and other witch trials and the records of the >inquisition can be very informative (if frightening, disgusting and >depressing). These poor people were often describing events which today >would be called abductions, and showed the "devils marks" which today >we call "scoop marks". Finding these marks during the physical exam was >a sure sign that the person was a witch. Hi Errol Hi All I'd like to add my two cents worth here if I may. If I reccollect correctly when witches where "discovered" back then, they was either burned at the stake, or if the local townsfolk were feeling VERY generous they just stoned the person out of town. These days thankfully any person showing these marks is not labelled a witch but a "contactee" or "abductee". These "new" cases are unlikely to be burnt at the stake but these "new" cases are just as likely to get sent to coventry or at best labelled as a nutcase, but thanks to the dilligence and perseverence of people like Budd Hopkins and John Velez these people can now "come out" without fear of ridicule or persecution. But a thing that interests me is that is is fairly well known that if one person in a family has been abducted then another person in that family has quite possibly also been abducted. Bloodline are it seems very interesting to the aliens. So following the bloodlines must have been B****Y difficult for the aliens back then. So how did they do it? Or did they change families and go on to some other poor victim and his/her family? There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Bursting the Balloon From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:30:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:59:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon =20 > From: RTodd12191@aol.com > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:40:39 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Bursting the Balloon > > From: DRudiak@aol.com > > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 15:18:30 -0400 (EDT) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Bursting the Balloon, Pflock (2) =20 > >>From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] > >>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:37 -0400 (EDT) > >>To: updates@globalserve.net > >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon << =20 > This is a response to certain points David Rudiak raised in the >posting > identified above, in which he quotes Karl Pflock regarding Major > Marcel's claim that he flew "as" a pilot, waist gunner, and bombardier > during World War II. Rudiak quoting Pflock (various snips made for > brevity's sake, and because Windows won't support Rudiak's verbosity): This was a clever joke on Rudiak, sir, until the length, breadth, and girth of _your_ vacuously soporific message made my 32 bit reader choke up a hairball. . . Lehmberg@snowhill.com Stanton says hey, Mr. T! --=20 Explore the Alien View?=20 =20 http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from=20 afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burning at the=20 fundamentalist's stake rather than suffer another Toddian communique, or character assination. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies=20 (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind=20 in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not=20 living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented=20 support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." =20 ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Skywatch: soundless C 131s From: William Weber <koran@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:20:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:57:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Skywatch: soundless C 131s > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:58:14 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Skywatch: soundless C 131s [snip] > I notice also in some other submissions I made that my spelling > errors were far in excess of my usual number. Sorry. I don't want > to get Dennis pissed off at me. > Don Ledger Geez, Don, neither do the rest of us (want you to get Dennis pissed, that is). It ain't...excuse me...It _isn't_ pretty. <G>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:40:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:00:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff > From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:49:51 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff > Like all the others, I had been waiting to hear what was said > about this.=20 I think it is to our collective credit that there was no rush to strut and crow regarding "Unsilent" Kal's spin disintegation on Bell's program . . . And on those who make their judgments . . . From the centers of their webs . . . Who raise the fates of some, And on other's curse with Krebs. Accuracy is the issue. Insure a solid footing? And how it's best to lay to rest A _back stepped_ drub, or rooking? So how to make a judgment, And stay one step ahead? Best -- "judge ye not, lest ye be judged," And search our skies, instead. After all, we got bigger fish to fry -- aye? --=20 Explore the Alien View?=20 =20 http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from=20 afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the=20 fundamentalist's stake. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies=20 (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind=20 in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not=20 living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented=20 support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." =20 ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:30:10 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:44:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:53:21 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >>Date: 11 Aug 97 08:10:03 EDT >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >>But, for those willing to go to the effort, I think reading the transcripts >>of the Salem witch trials, and other witch trials and the records of the >>inquisition can be very informative (if frightening, disgusting and >>depressing). These poor people were often describing events which today >>would be called abductions, and showed the "devils marks" which today >>we call "scoop marks". Finding these marks during the physical exam was >>a sure sign that the person was a witch. >If I reccollect correctly when witches where "discovered" back then, >they was either burned at the stake, or if the local townsfolk were >feeling VERY generous they just stoned the person out of town. >But a thing that interests me is that is is fairly well known that if >one person in a family has been abducted then another person in that >family has quite possibly also been abducted. Bloodline are it seems >very interesting to the aliens. >So following the bloodlines must have been B****Y difficult for the >aliens back then. So how did they do it? Or did they change families and >go on to some other poor victim and his/her family? Not to lay an even heavier workload on folks like Bud Hopkins, but it might be interesting to investigate the family histories of current abductees to see there were any condemned witches in their family lineage. Such links could suggest the aliens have been investigating these families for quite awhile indeed. -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Aug 97 18:36:10 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:50:04 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 10:59:43 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >While we're discussing my "shield of denial," perhaps you'll take the >opportunity to publicly deny that you have never, at any time, >personally examined a single intact (with edge codes) frame of the >first-generation print of the AA "film" that bears an image of the >"alien" and/or the "autopsy suite." Vince, Since you didn't call me any names in this post, I'm temporarily suspending my policy of ignoring you. You are right. I have never examined a single frame of first generation print of the AA film with a picture of the "alien" and/or the autopsy room on it. Happy now?? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Aug 97 18:36:12 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:53:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:53:21 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. >If I reccollect correctly when witches where "discovered" back then, >they was either burned at the stake, or if the local townsfolk were >feeling VERY generous they just stoned the person out of town. Burning at the stake was more of a European thing. If the executioner was feeling compassionate he might strangle the "witch" into unconsciousness before lighting the fire. Here in the USA, we usually drowned witches. The idea was to submerge the unfortunate in water for a long time. If he or she drowned, then they were obviously innocent and could not use magic to save their lives. Often they were submerged and pulled out repeatedly until they proved their innocence by drowning. As we became enlightened, we stopped killing "witches" and institutionalized them instead. Today they are safe from most persecution, but pendulums do swing. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:42:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:55:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:54:28 -0700 > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Prevarications and Kal Korff ===============Major League Snip====================== > There is no question that what Korff said on Jeff Rense's show blew up > in his face but I would like to see Korff's response to what happened in > detail before I render final judgment against him. > Jared. No point in reposting all the comments re Kal's follies. I hope he does tell his side. I trust KKK has learned his Libel 101 lesson well. When you spout off about someone's "criminal past" you best have better proof than what's been exhibited regarding Art Bell. IMO he owes this list an apology akin to that given to Art Bell. Any post here telling his side should be prefaced with such an apology. Following are just a few examples of why I think he should do so : EXAMPLE #1-------- From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 02:58:13 -0400 (EDT) ------Replying to Don & Jim------------- "Regarding Art Bell, I am still waiting to hear from him and have done as HE asks. If Bell does not let me on his show (meaning he changes his invitation to me) then of course I will post this info. I will not let Bell off the hook on this." ================================================== Example #2----------- From: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal Korff] Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 03:38:01 -0400 (EDT) ------Replying to Rebecca------------------ "Thanks again, and I look forward to your APOLOGY when I present the smoke evidence and the smoke eyewitness testimonies." Kal =================================== Example #3 From: TotlResrch@aol.com[Kal Korff] Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 04:01:58 -0400 (EDT) --------Replying to Rebecca----------------- So what's your "problem", Rebecca? Are you jealous or something? I certainly hope not, and could care less if you were/are. As I said in another post, if you had bothered listening to KXAM in Phoenix over the past 5 WEEKS you would be more properly informed. Instead, you are making a VERY PUBLIC FOOL out of yourself in this forum." ============================================ Example #4 From: TotlResrch@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 23:53:21 -0400 (EDT) ---------Kal's letter to Art Bell prior to being on Bell�s show--- "In the interim, if you could please send me an address where I can send the appropriate documentation to you for my appearance on your popular show, we can start moving this process forward towards resolution. I would like an address from you, and will send two packages of documentation via overnight mail, and I will request that you personally sign for the package and will guarantee me IN WRITING that you will receive the material AND read it and ADDRESS it with me together on your show. If what you say is true Mr. Bell, that you never made any such calls or "threats" to these radio stations, then this should prove no problem for you." ======================================================= Example #5 From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca] Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 21:46:22 -0400 (EDT) -----------Rebecca quoting Kal on Bell�s show------------- "Everything I said about Mr. Art Bell was completely untrue and false. I retract everything entirely and further apologize to not only Mr. Bell but the CBC Radio Network, and the affiliates mentioned -- KFYI in Phoenix, KOMO and KVI in Seattle." Art Bell then said something about everything being totally false and Korff replied: "Yes, there is no evidence at all and none of it held up and you deserve an apology Mr. Bell." ========================================= "I won't let Bell off the Hook"....."YOUR apology"...... "Making a VERY PUBLIC FOOL out of yourself"....... "I'll send you 2 packages of documentation"..... Who is the FOOL now who is on the HOOK and should be APOLOGIZING for not having the DOCUMENTATION he claimed to have ???....Hmmmm?? Where's the Flare Video? Where's the Beef in anything else, Kal? An apology would be a start. Dave Vetterick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Blanchard and LeMay From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:39:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Blanchard and LeMay GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- The following query/challenge was posted on UpDates by Kevin Randle: >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:46:47 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:03:46 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >>From: DRudiak@aol.com >>Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:36:51 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon > It's been said that Blanchard was both a hotshot and a protege of >Curtis LeMay. >Let's put this one to bed. There is NO evidence that this is true. >Who said this and when? Can we document this allegation? >Let's have some names and records so that it can be checked. >If such does not exist, then let's eliminate it because it is >not true. <<KRandle>> Kevin didn't direct this to me. However, I was the first to suggest Blanchard's personality/style was a factor in the release of the RAAF "was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc" press announcement (see "Roswell in Perspective" ["RiP"], pp. 66-67 ["The Rest of the Truth About the Press Announcement"/"The Blanchard Factor"] and associated end notes). Therefore it seems appropriate I offer a substantive response (actually, for the most part, RE-offer, see "RiP," published in '94, as noted above). The requested sources follow, but first a bit of context. (1) Those on both sides of the Roswell case have long struggled to understand how Blanchard could have done something so inappropriate as directing Haut to issue that press announcement. Whatever had been found, crashed flying saucer or downed flight train from a classified Air Force research project, the press announcement was a mistake that created a news story and embarrassed the Army Air Forces/Air Force (forget the cover-story interpretation; it's silly in the extreme). But consider this volatile mix: (1) the great public excitement and great military concern about the hundreds of flying saucer reports which had poured in since Arnold's sighting only two weeks before; (2) the fact that no one knew what the saucers were, other than silvery, fast-flying, and very maneuverable, too fast and too maneuverable to be ours; (3) a strong public and, most important, military concern the saucers might belong to the Soviets (at that very early stage, very few people considered the saucers to be from outer space, least of all members of the military); (4) the discovery of debris sufficiently unusual that, in the highly charged, saucer-filled atmosphere, it could be construed to be from one of "them" (set aside "alien spaceship" for a moment, and think about it); (5) and, finally, an ambitious, risk-taking senior officer who saw a chance to be a hero. (2) Let me make clear there's no doubt in my mind Blanchard was a fine officer, an outstanding leader, etc. According to both the official record and those who knew him at Roswell and throughout his career, he was a remarkable man. Quoting from "RiP," "He was an outstanding pilot, highly skilled, steel nerved, something of a risk taker--a 'natural'" in the strategic combat arm of the Air Force--and he (again from "RiP") "lacked neither ego nor ambition." He was typical of the best of his generation of World War II seasoned, "go to hell" military leaders. In short, he and his mentor General Curtis E. LeMay had a lot in common. (3) The very qualities mentioned above, which made Blanchard a natural warrior and leader of men, have a downside. If given too much free rein, they can get one into trouble. It's a fine line. The top military men whose careers were made in the combat arms of their services who never overstepped are very few indeed. Some were/are given to doing this more than others. (4) There never was a successful senior career military officer who didn't have at least one powerful mentor who guided and protected him and, when necessary, helped bail him out of difficulties (in the USAF such a patron is known as a rabbi). Then, to use a Marine Corps term, there's the "ring-knocker" phenomenon--the Long Gray Line, old-school-tie, old-boy network thing. Powerful anywhere, it's so in spades in the military, and when reinforced by shared combat experience, it becomes a blood bond. (5) Barring something irredeemable, rabbis and "the system" will protect and advance officers considered otherwise worthy in the face of even very serious transgressions. For example, the SAC command correspondence file covering the Roswell-incident period includes exchanges between Strategic Air Command deputy chief MG Clements McMullen and 8th Air Force commander BG Roger Ramey in which they seriously considered relieving Col. John Ryan of his command. In 1948, Ryan succeeded Blanchard as commander of the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell and later became chief of staff of the air force. Despite its very real inequities and occasional major failures (e.g., the full colonel, a notorious violator of flight rules, who crashed a B-52 at Fairchild AFB while "hot dogging a couple of years ago, killing all on board), the system works. The vast majority who rise to the top are first-rate officers, Blanchard included. (6) LeMay, in 7/47 a major general, was deputy chief of staff of the air force for research and development (technically, army deputy chief of air staff for R&D). The Mogul project was under his purview, and the record shows he was quite well acquainted with it. His Air Force "home" was heavy bombers. He ran the strategic bombing campaign against Japan, was instrumental in the creation of the Strategic Air Command of which Blanchard's 509th Bomb Group and Ramey's 8th Air Force were important parts, would later become commander of SAC, and ultimately rise to chief of staff of the air force. In short, LeMay had precisely the right background and was in precisely the right position to handle the Roswell "saucer"/Mogul matter. (7) While the press attention brought to Roswell was intense, embarrassing and potentially worse for the Air Force, it "lasted quick." Everything was okay again in a couple of days (no one could have anticipated the consequences beginning more than 30 years later). Therefore, while a problem, it was taken care of with a minimum of difficulty and could hardly have been considered a career-ender for an officer like Blanchard, especially given his close relationship with General LeMay. (8) Embarrassing but contained matters like the Roswell dust-up and any chewing out of those responsible are rarely put on the record. This is especially so when the principal "culprit" is a highly regarded officer like Blanchard, and doubly so if said officer had a rabbi named LeMay. It's safe to say Blanchard received more than one "blistering rebuke" by phone and perhaps in person, and I'll bet one of them came from LeMay. None of the above institutional-traditional military realities is news to anyone who's been in the military (as, e.g., Kevin Randle) or has had significant close professional contact with the military, especially at the highest levels. Hokay, Kevin and List, here at last are the promised sources concerning Blanchard's proclivity for "pushing the envelope," his relationship with LeMay, and help he received from LeMay in getting out of scrapes, all but three of them (indicated thus: *) referenced and footnoted in "RiP," 1994: * Curtis E. LeMay with Mackinley Kantor, MISSION WITH LEMAY: MY STORY, Doubleday, 1965.* Blanchard, who served with LeMay in the Pacific during WW II and later at SAC headquarters and in the Pentagon, is mentioned extensively throughout. LeMay even plugs him for chief of staff of the air force. Anyone doubting a close professional/personal/rabbi-protege LeMay-Blanchard relationship after reading this couldn't be convinced even by direct observation that the sun rises in the east. * It is important to note that all but one of the following gentlemen held/hold Blanchard in the highest esteem and most considered him a good friend-- --MG Woodrow P. Swancutt, USAF (ret.), 3/21/93. Gen. Swancutt is now deceased. --BG Joseph O. Fletcher, USAF (ret.). Gen. Fletcher's views were provid ed to me in 1993 by a very reliable source. --COL Virgil "Luke" Sewell, USAF (ret.), 9/12/93. --COL Arthur Jeffrey, USAF (ret.), ca. mid-'94.* --Robert J. Shirkey, 3/21/94. --Walter G. Haut, 11/2/92. --MSGT Lewis ("Bill") Rickett, USAF (ret.)*, passing remarks in an inter view with Mark Rodeghier, 1/90. --While I can't personally speak to the truth of this, Kevin, you might want to ask Frank Kaufmann about the aerial tequila run he says he made to Mexico in an AT-6 with Blanchard, Blanchard at the controls. Hope this helps. -- Over and out, KARL
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Theresa <110213.3274@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:05:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:41:03 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 10:22:08 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 Vince, >The staging of the video is very good -- excellent art direction and special effects work. < This seems to be in conflict with what the SFX experts say. Those that have commented are of the opinion that it is a poorly made special effect. They say they wouldn't have made it like this. This then leaves the possibility that it was created by someone not so expert in the craft, and also the possibility that it isn't a special effects creation. >Camera work is inexcusably sloppy -- so bad it's obviously intended to >obscure rather than reveal. This is an opinion as well. (And that's okay, there is nothing wrong with opinion. The only way that you could know it as a fact is if you were there during the filming.) But what is it that is obscured by the camerawork? >EVERY CLAIM made by the promoters of the AA "film" has vaporized into >the ether -- This is most interesting because every claim made by the demoters of the film has vaporized into the ether as well. Why does one side's vapor convince you more than the other side's? You didn't exactly answer my question, which was is your calling the footage a scam a fact or just your opinion. However, from your comments it would appear that it is indeed your opinion. >My question is: How can *anybody* take these guys seriously? Same way they can take you seriously I guess. You are claiming scam based on only opinion. It's just the opposite opinion of those that think it is real. The difference is that for some reason you take to calling names, and I don't believe I have seen the others do that. You commented somewhere that you felt that what Bob Shell is doing is 'marketing'. What would you call what you are doing? Thanks for the info. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 20:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:43:22 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' In a message dated 08/12/97 05:58:27, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:20:54 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Regarding... >>Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:21:08 -0400 >>From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@imperium.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'The Day Before Roswell' >>I wonder why no one(to my knowledge)has ever suggested the >>possibility of a mid-air collision between a weather/Mogul balloon >>and a craft of unknown origin. >It has come up as a scenario. Starting from an assumption that any >debris materials which are not obviously explained are therefore >extraterrestrial, is perhaps how the confusion arose in the first >place! Yup, and I plead guilty. The scenario--and that's all it was--was mine <blush>. See "Roswell in Perspective," p. 116, best read in context of the entire chapter, pp. 113-117. However, I did NOT assume "that any debris materials which are not obviously explained are therefore [i.e., MUST BE] extraterrestrial." Rather, I assumed FOR PURPOSES OF THE SCENARIO that the descriptions of materials with odd properties--those given of the "metal" by Rickett and Marcel, Sr., and of the "fabric" by Tadolini--were accurate. -- KARL, IRONIC DUKE OF ALBURQUERQUE (not a typo)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Question for Rebecca From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:44:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:53:04 -0400 Subject: Question for Rebecca To : Rebecca Who happens to STILL be waiting for the pictures of the smoke from the Arizona Flares that Kal claims to have. From : Dave Who happens to STILL be waiting for the cover letters that went with Jeffrey's Roswell Initiative petitions to the White House, etc., which Ms. Rebecca(still waiting for the flare pictures)said she'd ask for and copy to this list. Any updates on getting these cover letters? Dave
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:24:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:54:55 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' Regarding... >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:18:30 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' Dave, There was a vast amount of material left out. The intention was to address a specific perspective, not write a book. >Brazel Jr. and Marcel never met. Very similar description of the >large debris field, an explosion, and the time of discovery by >Brazel Sr. were given as well. A very _different_ description of the debris field was given. In "The Roswell Incident", Bill Brazel recalled that after the storm, "The next morning, while riding out over the pasture to check on some sheep, he [Mac Brazel] came across this collection of wreckage scattered over a patch of land about a quarter of a mile long or so, and several hundred feet wide". Major Marcel meanwhile, contends that "The wreckage was scattered over an area about three quarters of a mile long and several hundred feet wide". By my reckoning, that's half a mile by several hundred feet of a difference. Strictly, Bill Brazel refers to a patch of land that size, he doesn't say it's the entire area the debris was scattered over. He could have been describing the size of a marked area, similar to a field, that the debris was on. The only mention of a possible explosion came from Mac Brazel, who, according to his son's recollection, also from "The Roswell Incident", stated, "in the middle of this storm, there was an odd sort of explosion, not like the ordinary thunder, but different. He said he didn't think too much about it at the time, because the storm was so bad that he just guessed it was some freak lightning strike, but later he wondered about it". Bill Brazel also noted that his father described it as "the worst lightning storm he had ever seen". Marcel merely added that "Brazel told me he thought he had heard an odd explosion late in the evening several days earlier during an electrical storm, but paid no special attention to it at the time because he had attributed it to just a freak part of the storm". There's no evidence that it wasn't simply so. >So the "foil" couldn't be easily torn and was dull in color, unlike >shiny aluminum foil or aluminized plastics. A number of witnesses described it as "dull" and that seems to be the case, but Frankie Rowe claims her foil-like sample was a "dull gray" and then states "it was very shiny" and "silvery". Which claim do we believe? >Marcel also said about the properties of thing metal pieces: >"[There were] many bits of metallic foil, that looked like, but was >not, aluminum, for no matter how often one crumpled it, it regained >its original shape again. Besides that, they were indestructible, >even with a sledgehammer." >"The metal fragments varied in size up to six inches in length, but >were the thickness of tinfoil. The fragments were unusual because >they were of great strength. They could not be bent or broken, no >matter what pressure we applied by hand." >"I wanted to see some of the stuff burn, but all I had was a >cigarette lighter ... I lit the cigarette lighter to some of this >stuff and it didn't burn." >"We did all we could to bend it. It would not bend and you could not >tear it or cut it either. We even tried making a dent in it with a >sixteen-pound sledgehammer, and there was still no dent in it..." >Again, great strength and resistance to damage of all kinds. The "sledgehammer" story is anecdotal, Marcel acknowledged he never saw that. Even accepting it as fact, how do we explain the metal-foil which could not be bent, but could be crumpled and "wadded into a ball"? It seems a contradiction. As for the fragments being the "thickness of tinfoil", why does Charles Schmid claim they were "maybe a quarter inch thick". Why did Dr Marcel, in his affidavit to Karl Pflock, claim there was a "thick, foil-like metallic gray substance" and yet, elsewhere, say "the material was foil-like stuff, very thin"? If it couldn't be bent, how come Frankie Rowe claimed "you could bend it" and M. Sgt. Ricket said "you could bend it" and Mac Brazel confirmed, "I could bend it over and crease it"? The various testimonies of the metal-foil's alleged properties are arguably a mass of contradictions. That's what I mean by these specific claims being difficult to interpret when based on memories which are 30 years plus old. There's some evidence of metal-foil which was _at least_ crease resistant, I'm not sure we can say any more than that. Besides, what does this have to do with the debris being from an alien spacecraft? It's simply anomalous. >I should like to add, that the thin metal/foil wasn't the only debris >with anomalous descriptions. Another less commonly described one was >the wood-like material. William Brazel Jr. described these "wooden-like particles" as "like balsa wood in weight", Loretta Proctor thought they were "very lightweight...like balsa wood", Walt Whitmore Jr. recalled "some small beams that appeared to be either wood or wood-like" and Major Marcel confirmed, "they did not look metallic...something like balsa wood...about the same weight". These were presumably therefore "balsa wood beams that were coated in an "Elmer's-type" glue to enhance their durability", as Prof. Moore suggested in the USAF report, or, balsa-wood-like components from an intergalactic vehicle. Can we say for absolute certain that the former isn't the case, or is it perhaps the more likely of these two options. >There were descriptions of other anomalous materials, but these were >the major ones. There were no descriptions of any rubber balloons or >their remains (discounting Brazel's press conference while in >military custody), nor were there any descriptions of the hundreds >of feet of nylon balloon twine that held the Mogul balloon train >together. Why should we discount Brazel's press conference? As I pointed out, he confirmed the distinctive tape with flowers, which his daughter recalled seeing and which, pre-custody, he also told Loretta Proctor about. Bessie also remembered seeing the "sticks, like kite sticks" which were "attached to some of the pieces with a whitish tape". Also, although many of the debris witnesses, who have spoken, only saw the small portion which Mac Brazel brought back, Bill Brazel, as you know, described "some thread-like material", similar to "fishing line". >These are very notable absences, particularly the balloons, which >were far and away the major constituent of the alleged Mogul crash >object. If we had all the evidence, the story wouldn't have grown to become a myth. >To my mind, the very large number of consistent descriptions of highly >anomalous materials have always been the central enigma of the >Roswell case. Unfortunately, as demonstrated, they're not always consistent, with some notable inconsistencies, and if we can't be sure what the properties truly were, how can we begin to label it "extraterrestrial"? There was a time when it perhaps looked as though there was a lot more going for the crashed saucer/alien autopsy claims than there is now and although many of us would like to have the loose ends put to rest, we have been given significant evidence to explain the extraordinary Roswell story. If we choose to ignore the obvious conclusions simply because we don't like them, it doesn't say much for our ability to reason, without which, we'll always be stuck in 1947. Nothing of consequence happened then; the genuine, declassified documents prove it. I thought proof was what we wanted. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 03:54:17 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:00:53 -0400 Subject: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened I'm not posting this paper to endorse Korff's views, but it gives a good summary and much stuff that needs to be debated and clarified. I received it from "alt.paranet.ufo" August 12 at 12.01.=20 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:44:38 GMT From: cydonia@rachel.gov Subject: ROSWELL: What really happened,,, Message-ID: <33f0302a.14645601@news.multipro.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 According to much widely held public opinion, the United States government successfully recovered the remains of a crashed UFO along with its extraterrestrial occupants near Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947. In what is now known as the "the Roswell incident," the U.S. military is said to have quickly covered up the affair and continues to shroud it in extreme secrecy even today. If these events surrounding Roswell in the summer of 1947 actually took place, as have been claimed in several books on the subject and by numerous UFO researchers, it would certainly constitute the story of the millennium and be the greatest government-sponsored coverup of all time. Indeed, should irrefutable evidence ever surface that any government on this earth possessed the physical remains of either an extraterrestrial spacecraft or its occupants, it is an understatement to say that such a revelation would fundamentally transform humanity as we know it.=20 What does one do with the numerous claims about Roswell that have surfaced over the years? How does one begin to determine the truth about what really happened in 1947 and sort the fact from the fiction? The Roswell incident, and all that surrounds it, is a complex web of events, not easily understandable nor explainable until examined fully and in painstaking detail. In my new book, The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You to Know (Prometheus Books 1997), I undertake such a dissection. The book presents the results of some sixteen years of research and, for all practical purposes, leaves no stone unturned. The Roswell "mystery" has been solved, and there is no credible evidence that the remains of an extraterrestrial spacecraft was involved.=20 The Original Roswell Event For non UFO buffs, the Roswell incident effectively began after the Fourth of July holiday weekend in 1947 when a rancher named William "Mac" Brazel reported to the local sheriff, George Wilcox, that he might have recovered the remains of "one of them flying saucers." Wilcox, according to various accounts, then contacted military authorities at nearby Roswell Army Air Field, where Major Jesse Marcel was assigned to investigate. Marcel and two Counter Intelligence Corps agents, Sheridan Cavitt and Lewis Rickett, drove out to the ranch where Brazel worked to examine and collect the wreckage. On July 8, 1947, the public information office at Roswell AAF made the startling announcement that they had recovered the remains of a "flying disc."=20 However, by the next day the excitement was over. Brigadier General Roger Ramey, who had ordered the wreckage sent to him for examination at Carswell Air Force Base (also known as Fort Worth), held a press conference, with Major Marcel present, and announced that all the hoopla had been over a mistaken weather balloon, and nothing more.=20 With Ramey's deflating announcement, the Roswell "flying saucer" story was effectively dead and would remain so for decades. Then, in 1978, UFO researcher Stanton Friedman happened to meet Marcel. Because Marcel dredged up his recovered-saucer story, and Friedman thought he had at last found a "star" witness who could blow open the U.S. government's alleged coverup of crashed saucers and pickled aliens, the Roswell myth began anew, with Friedman as its most vocal (and visible) champion.=20 "Hundreds of Witnesses" In the pro-UFO community, much fanfare has been made over the years about the "dozens" or even "hundreds of eyewitnesses" to the alleged UFO crash near Roswell. If the near-holy reverence for the number of alleged witnesses surrounding the Roswell affair were limited to just the UFO buffs who have conducted no direct research of their own, this situation might be understandable. However, this is not the case, for the authors of numerous Roswell books play the numbers game as well. In the pro-UFO book The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell, Kevin Randle and Donald Schmitt note the fact that Bill Moore, coauthor of The Roswell Incident (1980), interviewed "more then seventy witnesses who had some knowledge of the [Roswell UFO crash] event." Indeed, both Friedman and Moore, around the time of the initial publication of The Roswell Incident, boasted that they had interviewed more than "ninety witnesses."=20 While these double-digit figures are certainly accurate, the presentation of such a seemingly impressive number of witnesses by themselves, without qualification, is misleading. The relevant issue is not how many witnesses were interviewed, but rather what type of witnesses (i.e., firsthand, secondhand), and how truthful and accurate their statements were.=20 Unfortunately, a careful reading of Bill Moore and Charles Berlitz's Roswell Incident reveals that, despite the impressive claim of having "interviewed more than seventy witnesses," the testimonies of just twenty-five people are presented. Out of these twenty-five, only seven of them are firsthand sources who claim to have seen the alleged saucer debris, and one of these accounts is suspect. Of these seven people, however, only five claim to have actually handled the material personally, and one of them is adamant that it was not from an extraterrestrial spacecraft.=20 The remainder of the professed "witnesses" cited in The Roswell Incident are either secondhand sources (whose testimonies constitute hearsay) or people who saw no wreckage at all or were never present at the "debris field" during the critical time. In other words, they are not actually witnesses in the true sense of the word.=20 Father Time and Flawed Memories While the pro-UFO community and the Roswell authors stress the number of witnesses, another factor in their firm belief that an extraterrestrial spacecraft crashed at Roswell is the apparent consistency of the eyewitness testimonies. However, a careful reading of the statements presented in The Roswell Incident and elsewhere reveals that there are serious discrepancies among the various accounts which, when analyzed in detail and taken collectively, severely weaken the case.=20 One undeniable truth that many UFO advocates seem to easily forget is that when Moore and Friedman first started interviewing some of the original witnesses regarding Roswell, the recollections of these people had undoubtedly changed. If nothing else, their memories reflected the passage of nearly thirty-one years, if not more. Even the very first person interviewed, Marcel, was not questioned by Friedman until 1978, again almost thirty-one years after the event.=20 It is an irrefutable fact that the passage of time erodes the accuracy of one's recollections of an event. Despite this, the Roswell authors continue to stress just how "clear and sharp" their witnesses' memories are, even though nearly fifty years have now elapsed. Certainly these memories could not have improved.=20 Perhaps the most absurd attempt to paint the Roswell eyewitnesses and their testimonies as beyond dispute can be found in Randle and Schmitt's The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell, which was later adapted for television by Showtime, under the name Roswell.=20 In drawing a parallel between the alleged UFO events at Roswell and the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Randle and Schmitt state, "The Roswell memories are vivid and detailed, despite the passage of so many years" and constitute a "snapshot memory."=20 If this is the case, to use Randle and Schmitt's analogy, then these people forgot to load film in their camera, for even the most important "star" witness to Roswell, Major Marcel, when first interviewed, could not even remember the year of the alleged UFO crash, let alone the month. Indeed, Marcel's own answer as to when this supposed "snapshot memory" event took place was simply "in the late forties"!=20 In my book on Roswell, I examine systematically the accounts of all major "witnesses" presented in the Roswell Incident and all others. For the first time, these testimonies are exposed for what they are: a mishmash of erroneous accounts, embellishments and outright confabulations. In fact, as I show, some of the people who have been touted as witnesses by the pro-UFO Roswell authors are not really witnesses at all. Here are some examples: Lydia Sleppy: Claims she was operating a teletype machine announcing the recovery of the flying disk when her teletype suddenly went dead and broadcast an ominous message from the FBI back to her ordering her to stop broadcasting the story in the interests of national security. Truth: A check by this author with all relevant FBI field offices and their headquarters turned up no evidence that the FBI sent any such message, nor did they have the monitoring equipment in place to do so. Furthermore, the type of teletype machine in use by Sleppy at the time would have required her to throw a "receiver" switch in order for her to receive an incoming transmission. There was no way that the FBI could have "interrupted" her as she claims.=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Loretta Proctor: Neighbor of Mac Brazel, the rancher who originally discovered the "saucer" debris. She claims she tried to bend, burn, and break a piece of the material Brazel showed her but was unable to. Proctor's testimony is used by crashed-saucer buffs to buttress the argument that a spaceship made of unknown, exotic material crashed near Roswell. Truth: Loretta Proctor has changed her story several times. She has transformed herself from a "witness" who never saw any debris, to one who now tried to bend, break, and burn the "mysterious" material. She began changing her account after her husband, Floyd, who made it very clear in earlier interviews that they had never seen any material, passed away.=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergeant Melvin E. Brown: Brown is touted as a "witness" who saw alien bodies by Roswell authors Friedman, Randle and Schmitt, and Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle (Beyond Roswell).=20 Truth: Melvin Brown cannot be considered a witness since he died in 1986 and was never interviewed by UFO researchers. Indeed, the only "proof" one has that Brown was a "witness" comes from his daughter, Beverly Bean, who first made the claim years after his death. No other member of Brown's family supports her claim. Furthermore, a check by this author of Brown's military file revealed that he was a cook who held no security clearance and never pulled guard duty. Also noted in the book are the blatant contradictions and changes in Beverly Bean's various accounts.=20 Major Jesse Marcel: The Hidden Truth In my book I publish for the first time excerpts from the military file of Jesse Marcel, excerpts which prove that although Marcel served his country honorably, he was not a credible witness and should not be considered as such. (Despite this fact, Stanton Friedman and other pro-UFO Roswell authors consider his every word to be gospel truth.) The file is extremely incriminating, for it it clearly demonstrates that Marcel had a penchant for exaggerating things while repeatedly trying to "write himself" into the history books. Ironically, Marcel's tendency to exaggerate was specifically noted in his military file by none other than the commander of the base at Roswell at that time, in a review of his performance that was signed just after the incident occurred.=20 Marcel claimed that he personally flew the UFO wreckage to Carswell AFB. He could not have done so, for he was never a pilot. Despite this, Marcel claimed in numerous interviews with Friedman and former National Enquirer reporter Bob Pratt that he was not only a pilot but had managed to shoot down five enemy aircraft! If so, this would have made Marcel an "ace," a distinction that certainly would have been noted in his military file. Instead, there's no record of this or even anything close, and in fact it was General Ramey who specifically noted in Marcel's file that because he was not a pilot, he would be severely limited in his career opportunities in the Air Force. It's no wonder, then, that Marcel would later "blame" Ramey for the "UFO coverup" at Roswell.=20 Marcel claimed he had a bachelor's degree in physics and even named the universities he attended. However, when I checked with those institutions, I discovered that one of them he never attended, and he never finished his education at the other. Curiously, while Marcel blatantly lied to UFO researchers such as Friedman about his mythical educational background, he never dared make such false claims to the military. Indeed, in signed statements contained in Marcel's military file, he replies "none" when asked under oath if he had a college degree.=20 Does this tell us that Marcel knew his gullible UFO peers would never check on him anyway? Or did he even care? We don't know.=20 The book also notes that Friedman, even as of this writing, has failed to refute these devastating new revelations about his "star" Roswell witness. Indeed, in what can only be politely called lame rationalization, Friedman counters that military records are notoriously inaccurate. While this is sometimes true, the comment is irrelevant, since throughout Marcel's file his signature repeatedly appears indicating that he signed off on its contents, certifying them to be true. Until Friedman and other pro-UFO Roswell researchers bother obtaining Marcel's entire military file, they are in no position to make comments on it, let alone dismiss it.=20 In addition to disproving Marcel's testimony, I also systematically dismantle and refute other Roswell "eyewitness" testimonies such as those of British Major Hughie Green, Roswell mortician Glen Dennis, Rueben Anaya, Frankie Rowe, Frank Kaufmann, Jim Ragsdale, and others. In short, no credible evidence from any witness has turned out to present a compelling case that the object was extraterrestrial in origin.=20 Having discovered the sad truth behind many of the testimonies concerning the recovery of alleged "flying saucer" debris near Roswell, where does this leave us? With no known scientifically verifiable physical remnants to study, is there any way that we can determine the true nature and origin of the actual wreckage that was collected? Fortunately, the answer is yes, but we must first examine additional evidence.=20 The Air Force Coverup Begins The beginning of the Air Force coverup of the true nature of the object recovered by Major Marcel started with Marcel's arrival at Carswell AFB and General Ramey's subsequent announcement that the debris was simply a misidentified weather balloon. As noted, Marcel maintains that the Roswell debris was from a flying saucer and that the weather balloon "explanation" provided by Ramey was a convenient cover story. Although Marcel's credibility as a truthful witness in the Roswell saga has been impeached, there is no disputing the fact that he accompanied the wreckage to Carswell AFB and was present in Ramey's office with him when the weather balloon explanation was given. But was there a coverup as Marcel claims, and was the weather balloon story part of that coverup?=20 According to Colonel Thomas J. DuBose, who was General Ramey's assistant, the weather balloon story was indeed part of the coverup, designed to get the press "taken off [Ramey's] back in a hurry."=20 If the Roswell incident did not involve the retrieval of wreckage from a genuine flying saucer, then why was the weather balloon story given as an "explanation," and what was the reason for the coverup? What was there to possibly hide, since the debris Marcel himself had helped recover was on display in Ramey's office?=20 Flying Saucer or Weather Balloon? According to the pro-UFO Roswell authors, specifically Friedman, Randle, and Schmitt, the debris photographed inside Ramey's office is not the material Marcel and Sheridan Cavitt recovered from the ranch. Instead, it is the remnants of a weather balloon that were brought in as a cover story to hide the true nature of the Roswell incident. Unfortunately for the pro-UFO Roswell advocates, the source of the claim that the wreckage in Ramey's office was replaced by that of a weather balloon is none other than, once again, Major Jesse Marcel.=20 The key to understanding (and unraveling) the truth behind Marcel's "bait and switch" claim is a clear understanding of the items shown in the photographs that were taken in General Ramey's office by reporter J. Bond Johnson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram and others. Either the photos show the real debris that Marcel collected and claims was part of a flying saucer, or they do not. And if the photos do not show genuine flying saucer wreckage, and General Ramey's weather balloon story was true, then they depict a weather balloon. On the other hand, if the photos show neither item, then there was indeed a coverup and Ramey lied.=20 Clearly, both Marcel and Ramey cannot be right, since the same material appears in all the known photos taken in Ramey's office that day.=20 In order to determine definitively the truthfulness of Marcel's substituted wreckage claim, I have analyzed in detail both the photos and the testimonies of the only other people who were in Ramey's office when the debris was photographed -- Colonel DuBose and Irving Newton. It appears that Marcel was once again confabulating.=20 Testimony of Brigadier General Thomas J. DuBose As mentioned earlier, Colonel Thomas J. DuBose, who later retired as a brigadier general, was present when the wreckage was brought into Ramey's office. There's no disputing this fact, because DuBose met the B-29 personally when it arrived at Carswell AFB (Fort Worth) from Roswell carrying the debris that Marcel had collected. DuBose not only greeted the incoming plane, but hand carried the wreckage remnants in a sealed canvas mail pouch, immediately escorting it to Ramey's office.=20 In a revealing interview, DuBose puts to rest the "mystery" of the so-called substituted wreckage and exposes it for what it is -- another Major Marcel myth. DuBose's comments have never appeared before in any book on Roswell. Q: There are two researchers (Schmitt and Randle) who are presently saying that the debris in General Ramey's office had been switched and that you men had a weather balloon there in its place. A: Oh Bull! That material was never switched! Q: So what you're saying is that the material in General Ramey's office was the actual debris brought in from Roswell? A: That's absolutely right.=20 In a second and a third, final interview, DuBose repeated his assertions that no wreckage substitution had taken place. More important, by the time of the third interview, DuBose had looked at the photos of the recovered debris taken at that time by J. Bond Johnson. DuBose recognized the material in the photos. Q: Did you get a chance to read the material and look at the pictures? A: Yes, and I studied the pictures very carefully. Q: Do you recognize that material? A: Oh yes. That's the material that Marcel brought into Fort Worth from Roswell.=20 DuBose's comments are significant, because they establish that there was no substituted wreckage and that the material Marcel recovered near Roswell was later photographed and put on display for public view in Ramey's office by Ramey himself.=20 I also present the testimonies of Irving Newton, who was also present that day in Ramey's office, and Sheridan Cavitt, who helped Marcel collect the wreckage from the ranch. After looking at the same debris photos, they confirmed that they depict the material they recalled seeing and that no UFO debris was ever there. In fact, both Newton and Cavitt make it very clear in their interviews that they have been misquoted by various UFO researchers, and they resent it. Although DuBose's testimony and all available evidence easily refute Marcel's substituted wreckage claim, DuBose was adamant that there was indeed a coverup. He never knew what the Roswell object was, but he did know that it was not an ordinary weather balloon, contrary to what was claimed at that time. The question now becomes, what was the object?=20 Project Mogul: The Real Answer Project Mogul was a super-secret operation in 1947 that involved the use of constant-level balloon trains that were equipped with various instruments for intelligence gathering purposes. Constant level balloon trains are clusters of balloons that are balanced so that they can float at a fairly consistent altitude and not continually rise up into the atmosphere. Project Mogul was a classified operation begun by the U.S. government after the end of World War II to spy on the former Soviet Union in order to determine the status of Russian attempts to build nuclear weapons. Project Mogul was so secret and sensitive that it had a national security rating of "Top Secret A-1," equal to that of the original Manhattan Project (the effort to build the world's first atomic bomb). While a Project Mogul balloon array has been mentioned before as a candidate for the Roswell object, unfortunately the case for it remained unproven -- until now. In my book, I present previously unpublished, formerly classified photos and drawings of various components of Mogul that can be visually compared by the reader to photos of the actual wreckage that was recovered. From these photos and drawings, it is clear that it is the same material.=20 I also present statements from the surviving members of the secret Project Mogul team. In particular is an interview with Professor Charles Moore, the main scientist behind Mogul's New York University balloon experiments and the man who actually launched the very balloon train that was recovered by Marcel. In addition to discussing Project Mogul and its history, Professor Moore also speaks for the first time about specific pro-UFO Roswell authors that have contacted him.=20 When I asked Professor Moore if UFO researcher Stanton Friedman had ever contacted or interviewed him about Roswell, he told me that in the early 1990s Friedman had placed a newspaper ad in the local paper soliciting witnesses to Roswell, and that he wrote to Friedman and later met him and his coauthor, Don Berliner, at a hotel in Socorro.=20 When I inquired as to how their discussion went, Professor Moore told me bluntly that Friedman and Berliner did not want to hear his side of the story and then accused him and his group of being part of the coverup.=20 It is curious that nowhere in Friedman and Berliner's Crash at Corona is this meeting ever mentioned, nor has Friedman ever noted it in his published writings, nor has he ever refuted the overwhelming and convincing evidence that the whole Roswell UFO hysteria was caused by people who didn't know the identity of the recovered material, the discovery of which just happened to take place during that unique period of time in mid-1947 when the flying saucer craze was first sweeping America.=20 Further Topics and Conclusion The other parts of The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You to Know expose the two cases where alleged physical metallic fragments were recovered and scientifically analyzed. In both instances, thorough analyses revealed that none of the fragments were extraterrestrial in origin.=20 I also address the issue of the Majestic-12 (MJ-12) documents. For those not familiar with the MJ-12 documents, these allegedly authentic top-secret documents were brought to the public's attention in 1987 by Bill Moore, Stanton Friedman, and another associate. They refer to a top-secret "Operation Majestic-12," supposedly created by President Truman to analyze the Roswell crashed saucer and aliens. Skeptic Phil Klass and others have shown this to be a hoax. I recount an interview with the widow and daughter of the late UFO skeptic and Harvard astronomer, Donald Menzel, an alleged MJ-12 member. Supporters of the MJ-12 papers, including Friedman, would have us believe that Menzel was a secret government "disinformation" agent who knew all about Roswell and the aliens recovered. Suffice it to say, the Menzel family are not amused by these ridiculous claims and were kind enough to share their thoughts with me, as well as provide additional evidence that their father could not have been a secret member of the non-existent MJ-12.=20 After maintaining my personal silence on the subject for nearly fifteen years, I finally come forth with some detailed insight into Roswell UFO researcher Bill Moore's claim that he is a UFO disinformation expert for the U.S. government. I was one of the first people Moore told this to back in 1982, some seven years before he announced it in July 1989. At the time, Moore approached me and tried to recruit me on his "mission." Naturally, I declined, and began to distance myself from him.=20 One of the last chapters in my book examines the infamous alien autopsy film and presents a myriad of reasons why it is a hoax. Also described are some behind-the-scenes details about the production and many of the games that were played on Fox TV by the film's promoter, Ray Santilli. The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You to Know is the first book to thoroughly wade through the massive quagmire of Roswell evidence and finally separate the fact from the fiction. Paranoid UFO conspiracy buffs and X-Files fans will find that the book confirms their basic premise: Yes, Virginia, there was a "coverup," but it did not involve the remains of an extraterrestrial flying saucer.=20 On the other hand, pro-UFO Roswell aficionados will find the massive evidence refuting the Roswell myth in my book disturbing, and not just because their favorite UFO case has now been explained. Indeed, the message in the final chapter makes it very clear that the UFO field has suffered in credibility because of Roswell and especially because of the unprofessional and shoddy "standards" of evidence the Roswell authors have practiced.=20 Although I didn't relish wording the last paragraph in my book the way I did, I had to call things as I see them. This paragraph reads: "The time has come for the UFO community to take an honest look at itself in the mirror concerning Roswell. If and when they ever decide to do this, they will see for the first time that they have two black eyes and a huge hole in their head. All of which have been self-inflicted." =A91997 by Kal Korff -- ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:41:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:07:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. Regarding... >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:22:38 -0400 >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> >Subject: Of Martian Cats, etc. The Duke wrote: >There also exists a photograph of Arnold proudly holding a rather >elaborate artwork of distinctly crescent-shaped objects. If the singular rather than the plural should apply, there's a copy of this photograph on my web site at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/saucers.htm Click on the photograph for an enlargement. The object is unquestionably more crescent-shaped than disc-shaped and certainly doesn't look much like a "flying saucer". It does however bear a resemblance to the Horton "flying wing". Jean van Gemert notes that: >From Steiger, p. 30, and these are Kenneth Arnold's words, not mine: >"As I was flying in the direction of this particular ridge, I >measured it and found it to be approximately five miles so I could >safely assume that the _chain of these saucer like objects_ [emphasis >mine] was at least five miles long." On page 31 Arnold says: "When >the sun reflected from one or two of these units they appeared to be >completely round." Jean, I believe I can trump that with an Ace. Also on my web site, is an audio file of what may be Arnold's first interview following his reported sighting. A wonderful snapshot of history, it contains the following description of the objects: "They looked something like a pie plate that was cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear". Under no circumstances saucer-shaped. Maybe half-a-pie-plate-shaped. It begs the question, would "flying half-pie-plates" have captured the public's imagination so much as "flying saucers". This description is much closer to the sketch in the photograph and does pose some questions about the reliability of Arnold's account. I believe the photograph appeared in "The Coming of the Saucers", co-authored by Ray Palmer and Arnold and published in 1952. It's apparently noted, "This is a photo of a model of the strange disk Arnold saw over the Cascades, June 1947". I don't know when this photograph was taken, however, on 12 July 1947, so I understand, Arnold forwarded the sketch which subsequently appeared in the Project Blue Book report and which shows a more saucer-shaped object. I haven't seen the following, but also understand that in an article entitled "The Saucer Error", Martin Kottmeyer wrote, "Arnold stated the objects "were not circular." A look at the drawing he did for his report to the Air Force shortly after the incident confirms the truth of that statement. It is hard to describe in a word or two; beetle-shaped is the best I can come up with". I know no more about this article and would be interested if anyone does. The "first interview" is presumably a more reliable account and if we take that at face value, what Arnold claims to have witnessed did not resemble a "flying saucer". James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: "I Met An Alien" - RAF Chief From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 06:02:33 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:09:07 -0400 Subject: Re: "I Met An Alien" - RAF Chief Received this from "alt.alien.research" August 12 at 15.20 local Danish time (GMT + 2 hours). Strictly speaking the Sunday Mail is a Scottish tabloid, but maybe the sender is referring to the Mail on Sunday which is the Sunday edition of the Daily Mail. Anyway I haven't been able to locate the article on the Web. Stig ******* Does anyone have any info on Sir Peter Horsly who was the No.1 in the Royal Air Force in 1973. According to the Sunday Mail he had an encounter with an alien back in 1949?. He had his finger on the button (Atomic) at one time, and has just recently come out of the closet in support of UFO's being real. Anyone know anything? Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:18:01 +0100 From: John Salmon <J.V.Salmon@bnr.co.uk> Subject: Sir Peter Horsley Message-ID: <33EF3B39.28B5@bnr.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Hynek and 'Swamp Gas' From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:54:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:20:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Hynek and 'Swamp Gas' The following is an exchange between James Diss and myself. I thought it important and felt it would be informative for some on the list. That's why I'm posting it. It deals with some UFO history, people's views on J. Allen Hynek's role in that history and research one can perform to form their own conclusions regarding Hynek. J.C. +++ >>Date: 09 Aug 97 09:05 EDT >>To: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >>From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: .....Reducing Government Secrecy 1997 >Date: 09 Aug 97 15:13:02 EDT >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: "\" Jerry Cohen\"" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: .....Reducing Government Secrecy 1997 James .. I wrote and you answered concerning Hynek & "Swamp Gas" >> It sounded as though you believed Hynek >>was responsible for the PR explanations given by the Air Force. >That's interesting, as Hector Quintilla suggests that the Swamp >Gas explanation was something that Hynek researched off his own >back, and they didn't think that it would be in the best interests >of the Air Force to give him headroom to do his own press conference. >This is mentioned in 'Fifty years of UFOlogy', Stacy and Evans, >Fortean Times press. JC: I think somewhere in Hynek's "The UFO Experience," (Henry Regnery Co., 1972) he mentions that the press was really hot for an answer to the Michigan sightings and others that had occurred worldwide prior to that, and that they were fed up with several dubious explanations put forth by the Air Force, which had preceded that particular case. One of them had to do with the Oklahoma sightings around "late July/early August 1965" that the Air Force tried to explain away as "twinkles from the planet Jupiter or stars Rigel, Capella, Betelgeuse or Aldeberan. Robert Riser, director of the Oklahoma City Kirkpatrick Planetarium said "Somebody made a mistake" ... "many of those objects mentioned by the Air Force are not visible until just before dawn in Oklahoma and others aren't visible at all." (Newsday, respected L.I. newspaper, Aug. 4, 1965 Also, N.B. other newspapers probably carried it within the same general time period.) The "swamp gas" explanation originally emanated from the "Frank Mannor case" (written up in Life Magazine Vol 60 #13, 4/1/66 "A Well-witnessed 'Invasion' by Something" ) Mannor and his son had tracked and seen a UFO in the swamp near their home in Dexter Township, Michigan. "It wasn't no 'hullabillusion,' said the farmer, and 52 agreed." Hynek went to investigate. The press accosted him as he came off the plane. When pressed by them for an answer, before he had even had a chance to look at the evidence at hand, he speculated that it might possibly be "swamp gas." The press jumped all over this. The accumulation of the preceding and other sightings in Michigan and elsewhere eventually led to Congressional hearings on Capitol Hill (Washington Post 3/28/66 "UFO's Revenge") which led to the eventual formation of the University of Colorado infamous "study," which was funded by none other than, you guessed it, the Air Force. 1 Hynek, in a letter he wrote to his boss Colonel Sleeper, denied he had anything to do with the scientific explanation given regarding the Oklahoma case. He mentions a few other interesting things regarding Project Blue Book as well. All of this and more can be found at Dr. Hynek's page in Glenn Campbell's UFOMind data base. The address is.. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/h/hynek/ Located there, amongst other things, is the letter I wrote to Ed Komarek. Its heading at the database; "Was Dr. Hynek an Intelligence Mole?". In it I stated all the reasons I believe Hynek was not a "mole," but rather a dedicated scientist trying to find the answer to an extremely perplexing phenomenon; merely working in the political climate of his time trying to remain respected while pursuing a topic that, at the time, engendered laughter from many of his colleagues. Jerry E-mail: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> FOOTNOTE: 1 "Scientific Study of UFOs, New York: Bantam Books 1969: Also New York Times . 8/14/66 . Sullivan, Walter . "Air Force Selecting University to Study 'Flying Saucer' Data": Look Magazine . 3/21/67 . pp 76-80 . Rogers, Warren "Flying Saucers .. Why the Pentagon was forced to call for scientific help" P.S. With your permission, I'd like to post this to the list. Let me know if this is O.K. Thanks. - J.C. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The following was James reply: Date: 11 Aug 97 16:58:55 EDT From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> To: "\" Jerry Cohen\"" <rjcohen@li.net> Subject: Re: Hynek and "Swamp Gas" Jerry, > In it I stated all the reasons I believe Hynek was not a "mole," >but rather a dedicated scientist trying to find the answer to an >extremely perplexing phenomenon; merely working in the political >climate of his time trying to remain respected while pursuing a >topic that engendered laughter from many of his colleagues. << Nice to meet some rationality in all this craziness. I agree wholeheartedly, and in my first message was trying to draw the dichotomy between 'good' government sources and those that are lying. Critical reasoning appears to be alien to some, but I'm pleased to note that _some_ out there do their homework. ....snip.... James A Diss
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: CIA's historical note From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet@GENERATION.NET> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 06:53:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:25:59 -0400 Subject: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: CIA's historical note Hi All, We may argue for or against the validity of that recent historical note on the CIA's involvement with UFOs. There is one thing that Haines has done: For decades, ufologists claimed that the official agencies were covering up something about UFOs. Skeptics were always saying: "You're imaginating things!" Well, the imagination just hit concrete reality with this article that basically says that the USAF and the CIA have lied, about UFOs, to the American public. I think that is one positive side... Jacques Poulet, Directeur SOS OVNI Qu=E9bec Case Postale 143 St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Qc CANADA J3B 6Z1 T=E9l:(514)536-0140 Fax:(514)536-0141 HTTP://www.cam.org/~martinc/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Quotes from 'La Mirada' interview with Corso From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 11:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:01:33 -0400 Subject: Quotes from 'La Mirada' interview with Corso GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- Carolyn Duce-Ashe, editor of "La Mirada," reports the following in her current issue: At Corso's book signing/love in/pressconference in Roswell, Carolyn asked him about the lack of documentation for his claims. Corso responded, "[I] had thousands of pages of information which I gave to my co-author, who took it and put it into a [barely!!] readable language." (Hmm, does the use of the article a mean the thousands of pages were in something other than English?) He then added, "There wasn't room for documentation after the story was told." This he followed with, "But I'm working on another book, and maybe the documentation will be in the next book." (Quotes from "La Mirada," the bimonthly journal of the Southwest Research Associates, No. 7, August 3, 1997, p. 6. Ten-issue subscriptions, $15 from "La Mirada," POB 2786, Corrales, NM 87048. SWA is a private research group based in Albuquerque. N.B.: I'm NOT a SWA associate, merely a "La Mirada" subscriber. Defenders of the Roswell Myth, please don't tar Carolyn and SWA with the brush you swing at me.) -- Cheers to all (well, almost all), KARL deBUNKER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Wednesday, 13 August 1997 8:47am MT Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:04:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 03:54:17 +0200 >Subject: Fwd: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened >I'm not posting this paper to endorse Korff's views, but it gives a >good summary and much stuff that needs to be debated and clarified. >I received it from "alt.paranet.ufo" August 12 at 12.01.=20 >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:44:38 GMT >From: cydonia@rachel.gov >Subject: ROSWELL: What really happened,,, >Message-ID: <33f0302a.14645601@news.multipro.com> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >According to much widely held public opinion, the United States >government successfully recovered the remains of a crashed UFO along >with its extraterrestrial occupants near Roswell, New Mexico, in >July 1947. In what is now known as the "the Roswell incident," the >U.S. military is said to have quickly covered up the affair and >continues to shroud it in extreme secrecy even today. If these >events surrounding Roswell in the summer of 1947 actually took >place, as have been claimed in several books on the subject and by >numerous UFO researchers, it would certainly constitute the story of >the millennium and be the greatest government-sponsored coverup of >all time. Indeed, should irrefutable evidence ever surface that any >government on this earth possessed the physical remains of either an >extraterrestrial spacecraft or its occupants, it is an >understatement to say that such a revelation would fundamentally >transform humanity as we know it.=20 I, along with some others on this list, am not sure that irrefutable evidence will ever surface on the Roswell incident. What would constitute irrefutable evidence? The remains of the Mogul balloon train or the remains of an alleged extraterrestrial craft. The arguements seem to endlessly revolve around what the witnesses said (or didn't say), their credibility, and the implications of what was said. Was the "metal foil" unearthly or just some ordinary material used in a balloon train? Are memories faulty or correct? Where are samples of this metal. Samples that have been tested and yield anomalous results can be faked according to experts. Documents have not surfaced, but documents can be faked. Kal Korff seems predisposed in his conversations and dialogues to the balloon explanation. He starts out to challenge the research already done with an aim in mind (not an open mind). What about stories of other crashes and retrievals? Why pursue those if we can not agree on this one? What are they flying out of the Nevada Test Site that looks like a classic UFO? What if it is? Where did they get it? It seems we are forever tottering on the edge of belief/disbelief. In that case, we probably need more evidence to strengthen the case that: 1) There are crashed-retrieved extraterrestrial craft 2) That there is a cover-up of the same 3) New credible witnesses and material samples 4) Documents, diaries, anything written to start with Taking it all into consideration, the balloon explanation seems too ad hoc and weak an explanation to account for the testimony to date. Also, placed in a wider context, there are mysterious and classified DOD projects ongoing that seem related to the UFO mystery. Perhaps there are reverse engineering projects underway and perhaps they started with a recovered vehicle from near Roswell in July 1947. Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:22:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:18:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/13/97 10:00 AM: > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 03:54:17 +0200 > Subject: Fwd: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened > I'm not posting this paper to endorse Korff's views, but it gives a > good summary and much stuff that needs to be debated and clarified. I > received it from "alt.paranet.ufo" August 12 at 12.01. Nothing personal, Stig, your message just provided a convenient hook for my annoyance, so please don't be bothered by the following, which is in no way directed at you. However, I have to say that I do not think there is much of anything about Roswell which requires any further debate or clarification. Over and over again we are plied with the minutest details of every possible aspect of the case. About the only thing we haven't seen debated yet is the bathroom schedule for Maj. Marcel on the day of the recovery. If half the effort which went into this case went into investigating and debating other historical cases with more substance (in terms of their _actual_ rather than _potential_ effect on UFOlogy), we might actually be getting some solutions; at least we would have something more varied than the continual, repetitive, and _extremely large_ posts on this incident. In the interests of doing something positive about the Roswell glut, I will accept (personal e-mail) 1 (one) no more than 32 (thirty-two) k post from each author who has published something about Roswell with bullet points of no more than a short paragraph each point, representing their position on the major components of the incident. Authors should feel free to include points which rebut points they know their opponents will make. I will then take the results and create a table with a column for each author and a row for each point, correlating those points which respond to each other or are otherwise directly related, thus forming a Roswell comparison table. I will then post this table at my website, for everyone who wants to know what the major Roswell proponents / opponents think, and why. I will close the initial offer on 9/1/97. Once that's done, how about turning some attention to debating: * The 1897 airship wave - how much was press fantasy, how much UFO incidents which would be accepted today? * The 1954 French wave - unique event, or normal wave? * Hairy dwarfs around the world - valid cases in the age of the Greys? * Are there no more cloud cigars? * The Northeast Blackout - were UFOs responsible? * Unusual South American cases - crashed discs (Botta), kidnappings (da Silva), etc.; how valid are they? * Famous photo cases (and hoaxes) * Whatever happened to orthoteny? You see what I mean? There are a lot of cases and events out there which deserve the attention of this list, and the detail-oriented approach of the Roswell authors. How about it guys? Especially Roswell skeptics who assert that they are interested in valid UFO cases - this is your chance to demonstrate your scholarhip, and help the rest of us arrive at answers (or at least learn something). ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Question for Rebecca From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:53:38 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:29:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Rebecca >From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:44:02 -0500 >Subject: Question for Rebecca > From : Dave > Who happens to STILL be waiting for the cover letters > that went with Jeffrey's Roswell Initiative petitions > to the White House, etc., which Ms. Rebecca(still waiting > for the flare pictures)said she'd ask for and copy > to this list. I have asked, I was told, sure, I'll send you a copy, and I'm still waiting. I was also told the letter would be posted to the website. That hasn't happened yet either. I know the letter exists because I had a copy of it when I sent the three boxes of petitions by FedEx to the Legislative aide at the White House. I wish I had hung on to a copy, but I didn't. Sorry. I will post it to the list when it arrives. I want to see again, for several reasons. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: UFO sighting, NYC From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:21:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:31:13 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO sighting, NYC >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:44:24 +0100 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting, NYC >> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 04:18:44 -0500 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO sighting, NYC >> Hiya Don, hi All, I originally wrote, >> The sightings that I have had, have _always_ involved the 'object' >>>>crossing the (very busy) landing pattern over Jamaica Bay for Kennedy >>>>International. I don't know about you, but sh*t like that gives me >>pause >>to worry about the safety of incoming and outgoing commercial >>flights. Don wrote, >It would scare the piss out of me too John but I can put your mind to >ease on a couple of points you make further on. (snip) >No matter how much they take out of the cockpit now-a-days and replace >them with computers displaying on CRTs and flatscreens, several items >are maintained in a redundent manner. These are ASI [airspeed >indicator] which utilizes dynamic ram air pressure to operate in a >mechanical fashion, the altimeter which is also mechanical and >measures air pressure through a static air port and a magnetic ball >compass that still sits atop of the instrument panel in its familiar >position. These three are primary instruments and are in all aircraft >though duplicated as well in the big screens seen on the newest >aircraft. Not being a 'pilot' I don't have very much knowledge about the working parts of commercial airliners. It's comforting to know that so much redundancy is built into them. But, as I'll mention in a minute that's not the problem! *All this talk makes me wonder about those poor souls that boarded flight 800 and what may have caused that one. 'Something' was seen approaching that aircraft on radar that has never been explained. Not saying it was a 'UFO' mind you, only that it has never been explained. JV- During takeoff or landing something like that could >> be disastrous. According to testimony given by two members of the Mexico >> City Airport tower personel to Jaime Maussan in 1995 the pilots are very >> concerned about this 'effect.' DL- Bumping into any aircraft with another whether alien or not would >probably be disasterous. But you are right when it comes to engine and >navigation instruments being disturbed. Not knowing the state, atitude >and position of your aircraft in densely packed airspace particularly >if you lose radio contact with "center" would be terrifying for any >"heavy" pilot lugging up to hundreds of lives behind him. Two of Mexico City's International airport tower personell (in a video interview where they consented to appear anonymously, (both gentlemens faces were 'blacked out') stated that the problem is, that the pilots have to land the planes _manually!_ I had always labored under the delusion that "pilots flew the planes!" Apparently landings are carried out by the onboard computers with the pilot monitoring for problems so that he can wrest control from the automatic systems should a 'situation' arise. According to them, (that) is the problem! Pilots are forced to land manually and that introduces safety issues into the equation. They said that what happens is that they start to get false readings in terms of airspeed and altitude, (airspeed readings will jump from 500 knots to 900 or 1000 knots instantly. Ditto for altitude readings.) They are being put into a position to make quick and major decisions during landing and take off proceedures which are the two most critical times during any flight. Old man Vonkevitsky (sp.?) who lives nearby (here in Queens NY) has been saying for years that a lot of UFO activity seems to center in and around Kennedy International. The old warrior may have been right all along. At least I'm beginning to think so, and that's based on fairly close-up daylight sightings not speculation. We need more folks to look up and study what's there. Anyone who does consistently enough will eventually see things that just don't fit in with 'everything else' that's 'up there'. John Velez, Eyes on the skies. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Scientists Find Building Blocks Of Earth-Like From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:05:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:36:30 -0400 Subject: Scientists Find Building Blocks Of Earth-Like Found at http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/chronicle/article.cgi?file=3DMN33933.DTL&dir ectory=3D/chronicle/archive/1997/08/07 Thursday, August 7, 1997 =B7 Page A11 =A91997 San Francisco Chronicle=20 Scientists Report Finding Building Blocks of Planets Clues contained in gas-rich disk orbiting new star=20 Charles Petit, Chronicle Science Writer California astronomers today are reporting the discovery of what looks like an immense construction zone for new planets some 450 light-years from Earth.=20 Combining signals from half a dozen radio telescopes, scientists claim to have found a gas-rich disk of material rotating around a young star known as MWC480 in the constellation Taurus.=20 Thin disks of dust have been known to exist around older stars. The new discovery, reported in today's issue of the journal Nature, marks the first time the phenomenon has been detected around a very young star -- an age when planets such as those in the sun's solar system could first be forming.=20 The newly found disk is also denser, and far richer in gas such as the hydrogen that makes up most of Jupiter, than previously known disks around stars.=20 "We are seeing for the first time a place where conditions are perfect for the formation of planets like Jupiter or the Earth,'' said Anneila Sargent, director of the Owens Valley Radio Observatory and a professor at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, which operates the observatory east of the Sierra near the Nevada border.=20 The star has a mass about twice that of the sun. It is just a few million years old, about a thousandth the age of the 4.5 billion-year-old sun.=20 The new sighting bolsters the view that planets form easily, and often, around stars, and that Earth and its eight sister planets in the solar system are not the result of some fluke combination of events.=20 Sargent said the finding is "a perfect fit'' with theoretical predictions about places where planets agglomerate.=20 The paper's lead author, postdoctoral scholar Vince Mannings, called the disk "a planetary construction site.'' Still, he conceded, the new observations are not proof of how worlds form, because the instruments have not been able to spot any actual newborn planets floating in the gas and dust around MWC480.=20 Although the star is well known to astronomers, the big disk became clear to the Caltech team only with the help of instruments finely tuned to the emission frequency of carbon monoxide.=20 The gas makes up only a tiny fraction of the cloud but is the most easily detected. Most of the material is probably hydrogen gas.=20 The disk's outer edge is more than 30 billion miles across, or about 10 times larger than the orbits of Neptune and Pluto, and reaches almost to the surface of the star itself in a flat sheet of material orbiting above the star's equator, Sargent said.=20 So far, the disk appears to be an oblong blob. Analysis of the spectrum of its radiation, which lets the astronomers measure its motions, shows the gas is in a flat sheet tilted at about a 30-degree angle as seen from Earth. It appears to orbit around the star rather than falling into it or forming a spherical cloud around it.=20 The observation was welcomed by other astronomers.=20 "This really is consistent with our concept of solar system formation,'' said Douglas Lin of the University of California at Santa Cruz, an expert on planet evolution theories. "So I am not too surprised by these results. The important thing now is to get higher resolution (sharper focus) to see more of the physical conditions.''=20 The disk is presumably a leftover from the process of gravitational collapse of interstellar gas clouds that formed the star itself. But young stars are so boisterous, spraying strong winds of superheated gas outward and glowing in intense ultraviolet radiation, that it seemed to many astronomers they would blow away any disks of orbiting gas too fast for planets to form in them.=20 The new observation seems to confirm that, as theorists had hoped, the disks last long enough to spawn planets.=20 Sargent said one goal now is to use even more radio telescopes, from locations farther apart on Earth, to improve the focus and look for gaps in the rings. Such gaps would indicate where planets are forming and clearing out the gas and dust.=20 Several teams of astronomers in recent years have found indirect evidence of actual planets around stars similar to the sun. But to see how such planets first form, "we need to catch them in their early stages. That is what we think we are doing now,'' Sargent said.=20 =A9 The Chronicle Publishing Company =09
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 Phoenix? From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:29:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:35:00 -0400 Subject: Phoenix? Hi Errol, hi All, I thought I'd 'cop' a page from Phillip Mantles' book and just post a request for info this time. <G> Does anybody have any further word (know of any) new developments in the Phoenix lights case? I hate it when things just drop from view like that. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:08:57 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:39:44 -0400 Subject: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:24:08 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... > >>From: DRudiak@aol.com >>Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:18:30 -0400 (EDT) >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Day Before Roswell' >Dave, >There was a vast amount of material left out. The intention was to >address a specific perspective, not write a book. >>Brazel Jr. and Marcel never met. Very similar description of the >>large debris field, an explosion, and the time of discovery by >>Brazel Sr. were given as well. James Easton, responding to David Rudiak, supplies various conflicting testimonies from Roswell witnesses to the list about the size of the debris field and the properties of the strange materials that were found. He concludes we aren't sure what the exact facts are, so we certainly can't conclude it was a crash of an ET object. I am convinced that a large part of the variation in the descriptions is simply due to the fact that by now hundreds of people have been interviewed about the incident and although they probably have seen the same things, the reports differ anyway. If more people had been interviewed, say thousands, the confusion would be even greater. An analogy. +++ Say General Motors introduces a new model Cadillac Seville. It parades over Hollywood Boulevard on August 14 at 9.30 AM with a male driver with black hair and a blonde female passenger. It is 1 meter larger than older models, is painted white with black dots and crosses all over it for the occasion of the introduction. Then ask 200 people what they have seen. One person would report a white old model Cadillac Seville with black dots (no crosses) that drove by at 9.25 am after it had just turned the corner and he saw one person inside. Another person would report a white old model Cadillac Seville with black and grey (distance) spots and stars on it at 9.27 am at the center of the boulevard. The car had at least one person inside. The third person would report a strange white automobile that seemed to have all kinds of markings on it that drove by at 9.35 am. He has occasionally reviewed car brochures and says he thinks it was a Japanese car designed to compete with comparable General Motors models. The 4th person would report a Cadillac-type car with a stretched back that drove by at around 10.00 am (he didn't wear his watch) and he can remember two people sitting in it, a man and a woman. The 5th person says it was probably a new Hyundai car, because he has seen similar types in automobile magazines. Asked for clarification he says his brother has been laid off four years ago by GM because of Korean competition and has since been struggling to make a living. He warns America that now the Koreans seem to be taking on General Motors big time. Btw. he believes the exact time was 9.20 am, because he always leaves home at 9.05 am to go to work and he saw the mystery car about a quarter of an hour later. The 6th person doesn't know the model, but says he had read that the Hollywood couple David Copperfield and Claudia Schiffer had just bought a new Oldsmobile and he is almost convinced the white car with the specks and crosses all over it was inhabited by them, because the people he saw in it looked so much like them. He suggests Copperfield and Schiffer were just showing off their new car. This news reaches The National Enquirer headquarters which comments that Copperfield and Schiffer are apparently playing all kinds of tricks on the public to demonstrate that their marriage is really not a phoney one, just for the money, as the Enquirer had reported. Of course, this only arouses more suspicion about the exact terms and motivations for the marriage. The Enquirer devotes an article to the sighting in its upcoming issue and promises that new revelations will follow. Elvis fans are reported to believe that the white Cadillac-type car that drew so much attention actually marks the come back of Elvis in grand style and they are already organising a gathering at Elvis' former Graceland residence. The 7th witness says he saw a white stretched Cadillac with dots and crosses that drove by at around 9.30 am and was inhabited by two people, a man with black hair and a blond woman. The 8th person interviewed says he has seen nothing of the sort, but, come to think of it, he has seen a strange green metallic painted car driving by that looked Japanese, but he is not sure of the type. Something like a Toyota Lexus perhaps, but certainly not white with dots and that was at 10.15 am. He is sure of the time, because he had an appointment with his lawyer at 10.15 am and when he checked his watch in front of his lawyer's office he saw the car drive by. When journalists of the Los Angeles Times probe General Motors for clarification, a GM spokesman says there is no way it could have been a new GM model, because new models are introduced in September, not in August, so he is not sure what the journalists are talking about. He had forgotten to mention that before actual USA wide introduction, new models are test marketed in California. Hyundai and Toyota couldn't be reached for comments at the time of publication of the LA Times article. GM's marketing department, that organizes the introduction of new new models, was not contacted by the journalists, because they are marketeers, not spokespeople. Two days later the GM spokesman runs into the head of marketing and asks whether there is any truth in the rumors about a new car model that reportedly drove on Hollywood Boulevard recently. The head of marketing laughs and says "Oh, you are probably talking about that National Enquirer story that made so much of a fuss". The spokesman says "Yes". The marketeer says the story about the Oldsmobile with Copperfield and Schiffer inside is wrong. The new Oldsmobile models are test marketed in San Francisco and if Copperfield and Schiffer had bought one, he would have known it. The spokesman accepts the explanation and concludes the journalists were clearly mistaken. +++ If I am not making myself clear enough with this post, I will produce The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy, part II, in which ten more witnesses will be interviewed and the battle between the various investigators will start. Also, the first allegations of lies and deceit will be introduced, while a Phil Klass type character in an interview with Larry King will explain that people have an innate ability to hallucinate. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 13 NASA Flouts Einstein From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:50:45 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:34:47 -0400 Subject: NASA Flouts Einstein Found at: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/examiner/article.cgi?year=3D1997&month=3D08&da y=3D11&article=3DNEWS378.dtl The text speaks for itself, but the NASA link at the end doesn't work. Stig Monday, Aug. 11, 1997 =B7 Page A 1 =A91997 San Francisco Examiner NASA flouts Einstein, explores feasibility of interstellar journeys=20 Key to star treks may be found in science fiction Keay Davidson EXAMINER SCIENCE WRITER In a development straight out of "Star Trek," NASA is looking seriously at the feasibility of flight to the stars.=20 Way-out schemes for traveling to the nearest stars are being assessed by scientists and engineers as part of a low-profile, micro-budget NASA program, dubbed Breakthrough Propulsion Physics.=20 Wormholes, warp drives and other means for interstellar flight - long staples of science fiction - may become science fact, if the researchers get their way.=20 Tuesday through Thursday, more than 80 employees of the space agency and space-related industries will gather at NASA's Lewis Research Center in Cleveland to hear 14 scientists and engineers discuss ways to achieve interstellar flight.=20 Possibilities include the generation of so-called wormholes, something akin to rips in the fabric of space and time. Some physicists have speculated that a spaceship passing through a rip might emerge in a distant part of the cosmos.=20 "We don't even know if these things are physically possible," said the program's chief and sole full-time employee, aerospace engineer Marc Millis of NASA-Lewis.=20 But, Millis added hopefully: "Progress is not made by conceding defeat."=20 Why go to the stars? Among other things, to find habitable planets for humanity, Millis said.=20 "Imagine if we could give citizens access to a whole nother planet Earth," said Millis, 37. "Imagine if there were an uninhabited planet suitable enough to live on."=20 The main barrier to interstellar flight remains Albert Einstein's theory of relativity, which forbids travel at speeds faster than light - 186,000 miles per second.=20 The nearest stars, other than the sun, are four light-years away. A light-year is 6 trillion miles, the distance that light travels in a year. Because of the Einsteinian limit, a spaceship would need at least four years to reach the closest stars, Proxima Centauri and Alpha Centauri.=20 Two scheduled speakers come from the Bay Area - Raymond Chiao of the UC-Berkeley physics department and astrophysicist Bernhard Haisch of Lockheed Missiles & Space Co.'s office in Palo Alto.=20 Haisch is expected to discuss the possibility of space propulsion using something called "the momentum of the quantum vacuum." Chiao plans to discuss how laboratory experiments suggest that under certain circumstances, photons - particles of light - appear to travel "at an effective speed of 1.7 times the speed of light."=20 The program has official liaisons at a number of NASA centers around the nation - for example, Larry Lemke at NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View.=20 The proposed technologies "are extremely long shots," cautions one enthusiast, John Cole. He is manager of space transportation research at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama, which funds the program at Lewis.=20 "Theories of this type have cropped up perpetually from time to time," Cole said, "and usually wind up not leading anywhere. . . . But if we don't look, we certainly will never find anything."=20 And the time may be right.=20 "People, particularly young people, are sort of rejecting the claustrophobic position that we are locked in this solar system without any chance at all of going to others," said Whitt Brantley, chief of the advanced concepts office at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama.=20 But not everyone at NASA is pleased by talk about star ships.=20 Within the space agency, "the reactions completely cover the entire spectrum," Cole said. "There are those that believe we are about to get NASA embarrassed with some ideas that can't possibly be achieved.=20 "And there are others that are just delighted that NASA is finally open-minded enough, and (has) enough courage - and encouragement from the administrator (Daniel Goldin) - to pursue these things," Cole added.=20 Brantley interjected: "If you look back in history before great discoveries were made, there were great minds trying to show they were impossible."=20 How did an agency packed with conservative engineers get interested in interstellar flight?=20 For one thing, NASA Administrator Goldin made the once-taboo topic acceptable by publicly speculating about it.=20 Also, recent research published "in credible, peer-reviewed (scientific) literature" has made interstellar flight seem more feasible than it did decades ago, Millis said.=20 For example, the warp drive plan is based on an idea proposed by Miguel Alcubierre, an astrophysicist from the University of Wales. He published the method in 1994 in a little-known scientific journal called "Classical and Quantum Gravity."=20 According to one theory of warp drive, one could get around Einstein's speed limit for matter by moving the space around the matter. The space, being non-material, could exceed the speed of light - or so the theory implies.=20 Larry Diehl, director of NASA-Lewis' research and technology directorate, acknowledged with a chuckle that on the Internet, there has been chatter about whether "we are looking to violate the laws of physics. The answer, of course, is "no.'=20 "We haven't made any large-scale commitment to funding work in this area. . . . (Still) if we don't continue to reach out and explore, I don't feel that we make progress," said Diehl, an aerospace engineer who has worked for the agency for three decades.=20 The program's current one-year budget is $50,000 - pennies by NASA's usual gold-plated standards.=20 NASA has published the agenda for its conference on the World Wide Web at =20 www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/html/warp/bppconf.htm.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Phoenix? From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Wednesday, 13 August 1997 3:30pm MT Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:29:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix? >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:29:25 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Subject: Phoenix????? >Hi Errol, hi All, >I thought I'd 'cop' a page from Phillip Mantles' book and just post >a request for info this time. <G> >Does anybody have any further word (know of any) new developments in >the Phoenix lights case? I hate it when things just drop from view >like that. Hi John, The update on the Phoenix Lights (or should I say, Arizona Lights) is the fact that with a review of eyewitness accounts that Michael Tanner and I have concluded that there were at least 10 events that occured on the night of March 13th. We have reviewed nearly 100 reports to date. The irony of this is that what we are labeling "Event 2" was an unlighted object, a large black triangle, that traveled over Scottsdale and Mesa around 8:40 PM. This same triangle may have been seen (on the same trajectory) at about 8:50 PM in Chandler, south of Mesa, then sporting lights. These lights were amber and round. They could detach from the triangle and appear elsewhere. We now believe the lights that we videotaped were these orbs deployed by the triangle. Event 1 was the big V. A couple in Prescott reveals that the configuration of the V changed when it passed over their house to a semi-circle of white lights. Then the white lights turned red and the object or formation which was traveling at very slow speed accelerated at rocket speed toward Phoenix. Event 4 were desribed as spinning tops on the west side. Event 5 were large luminous globes on the east side. There was a second triangle with a cut-out V in its trailing edge that passed west to east over the north of Phoenix between 10:30 PM and 10:45 PM. A pilot saw a large cluster of lights in a roughly rectangular formation around 10:30 PM. The triangle variation-2 re-appeared around 2 AM on the 14th and was witnessed by a Wackenhut guard. It looks like it might take a small book to detail the events and reactions to the events. From good eye witness descriptions, I would have to conclude that many of these objects seen that night remain unidentified and do not fit any conventional category of flying object. Not one of these objects made any engine sounds and several exhibited both slow and rapid movements. Tim Ley and his family who witnessed Event #1 swears that he was no more than 100-150 feet under the passing object and that it was immense, had structure, and was totally silent as it glided through the sky at about 30 knots. There have been sporadic sightings since then including sightings of the variation-2 triangle. Nothing as spectacular as that night. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Exec Dir Skywatch International Field Investigator in Phoenix John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 15:56:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:31:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened > From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com > Date: Wednesday, 13 August 1997 8:47am MT > Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:04:12 -0400 > Subject: Re: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened > Kal Korff seems predisposed in his conversations and dialogues > to the balloon explanation. He starts out to challenge the > research already done with an aim in mind (not an open mind). > What about stories of other crashes and retrievals? Why pursue those > if we can not agree on this one? What are they flying out of the > Nevada Test Site that looks like a classic UFO? What if it is? > Where did they get it? > It seems we are forever tottering on the edge of belief/disbelief. > In that case, we probably need more evidence to strengthen the > case that: > 1) There are crashed-retrieved extraterrestrial craft > 2) That there is a cover-up of the same > 3) New credible witnesses and material samples > 4) Documents, diaries, anything written to start with > Taking it all into consideration, the balloon explanation seems > too ad hoc and weak an explanation to account for the testimony to > date. Also, placed in a wider context, there are mysterious > and classified DOD projects ongoing that seem related to the > UFO mystery. Perhaps there are reverse engineering projects > underway and perhaps they started with a recovered vehicle > from near Roswell in July 1947. Reading your little bit here on the NTS Bill I was reminded of the 2 part special on TLC. The first segment of which aired on the same night as the FOX UFO special (nice job by the way). This 2 part documentary was co-produced by Timothy Good and was primarily investigating Area 51. It was hosted by a pudgy British journalist named Bruce Burgess I believe. I was delightfully amused at this man's bulldog tactics when it came to investigating these issues. He harrassed the gate security at McCarren airport, He harrased the security people at EG&G, he called Bobby Ray Inmann to inquire about saucer projects at Area 51, this guy even took a camera crew up into a private plane and FLEW OVER GROOM LAKE before they were chased out of the area by F-16's. I mean, you gotta admire this guy's zeal crazy or not. Burgess interviewed Friedman, Lazar, Campbell, Pope, Knapp, Good, Oeschler, Maccabee, Bill Sweetman of Aurora fame, and some others. Mostly the traditional stuff that we've all heard. There was one thing that I hadn't heard before which was an interview they did with a former Nellis radar operator discharged in 1985 that allegedly or possibly somewhat accidentally witnessed a disc test somewhere in the NTS. They had her face blacked out to conceal her identity. She contends that she was standing on the deck of a radar van and was looking up and saw 10-15 saucers that were glowing orange on the bottom. She states that she was with some other people she didn't know and that didn't know eachother and none of the officers that were present were wearing any kind of insignia. She said she believed the craft she saw were piloted by aliens because the maneuvers they were executing were so perfect. She then goes on to describe some kind of morbid mind control scenario where she and the others were brought to some find of medical facility at Groom Lake and injected in the neck with a hypodermic needle filled with God knows what. She believed it was some kind of chemical that went straight to her brain and was supposed to suppress her memories or some other such sinister purpose. Does anyone know anything about this individual or the case?...How credible is this individual?...sounds interesting. Jared
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Earth lights - Objections From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:52:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:32:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Earth lights - Objections > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/11/97 9:03 PM: > From: DRudiak@aol.com > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:56:22 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Earth lights - Objections > First, what are the energy requirements? For simplicity, let's assume 100% > energy efficiency and devise a model craft. A classic 10 meter diameter > saucer 2 meters thick will do. How much will it weigh? If the alien > engineers can do no better than a fully fueled and loaded 747 which weighs > around 400,000 pounds, then our much smaller saucer will, believe it or not, > weigh only about 5000 pounds or about 2000 kg, only slightly more than a > standard automobile. For obvious reasons, jet planes are made of > lightweight > materials like aluminum, and are mostly air on the inside. Consequently, > their specific gravity is surprisingly low when you work it out. ...And > since I propose they carry no conventional fuel for energy and use the > structure of the craft itself for energy storage and propulsion, that > eliminates even more weight. But we'll conservatively stick to the mass of > 2000 kg. This is a great post, and I'm looking forward to doing a more detailed analysis. I did, however, just want to mention that Hill's analysis of the Quaroble UFO showed an approximate weight of 30 tons (60,000 lbs (30k kg?)), and a mass density about 96% of water, close to submarine density, and higher than aircraft density. In my view, this does not invalidate the calculation, but it does change the numbers. I'm curious - does anyone know of a source for estimated weights from landing traces? If so, could you please post a reference, and perhaps a few examples to give us the range of weights to discuss? ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Question for Rebecca From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:11:02 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:35:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Rebecca >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:53:38 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Rebecca >I have asked, I was told, sure, I'll send you a copy, and I'm still waiting. >I was also told the letter would be posted to the website. That hasn't >happened yet either. >I know the letter exists because I had a copy of it when I sent the three >boxes of petitions by FedEx to the Legislative aide at the White House. >I wish I had hung on to a copy, but I didn't. Sorry. I will post it to the >list when it arrives. I want to see again, for several reasons. >Rebecca Rebecca & List: Here's a copy of Kent's letter to the Prez. I had to scan and OCR from a streaked fax, so any mistakes in spelling are probably my own. The original was underneath the International Roswell Initiative letterhead. July 8, 1997 President Bill Clinton 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington, DC 20500 Dear President Clinton, This letter is accompanied by over 20,000 signed copies of a statement known as the Roswell Declaration. The Declaration requests a mandated policy of openness on the part of the U.S. government with respect to any knowledge it might possess or acquire about UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence. The signatories to this mainstream, grassroots effort, the International Roswell Initiative, include hundreds of scientists and engineers, three retired air force generals, and two former U.S. astronauts. While the initiative was originally inspired by the 1947 Roswell event, extensive research has established that the Roswell incident itself did not involve an extraterrestrial craft. Whether it is justified or not, there is a widespread lack of confidence in the government's forthrightness with regard to the UFO phenomenon, even among those who do not believe a UFO crashed at Roswell in 1947. For example, a late-1996 Gallup poll revealed that 71 percent of the American public believes that "the U.S. government knows more about UFOs than it is telling." An executive order guaranteeing that information as profound and important as that relating to other intelligent life in the universe would never be withheld by the U.S. government would surely be considered a positive move by those on all sides of the issue. Whether or not any such information exists, such a mandate would undoubtedly do much to alleviate the American peoples' long-term distrust and suspicion of their government concerning this subject. Sincerely Kent Jeffrey [signed] Coordinator, International Roswell Initiative A second, different letter, dated the same day, was also sent to Janet Murguia, Deputy Assistant to the President for Legislative Affairs. Presumably, this is the one Rebecca referred to. I'll scan, OCR and post it later. At the moment, however, Venus is just rising and I want to be sure it's mistaken for a Pleiadean beamship. (Har-de-har!) Ahem, seriously, hope this helps. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Blanchard and LeMay From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:06:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:39:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Blanchard and LeMay Regarding... >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:54:21 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Blanchard and LeMay Karl referenced: >* Curtis E. LeMay with Mackinley Kantor, MISSION WITH LEMAY: MY >STORY, Doubleday, 1965.* Karl, I had tried to find a copy of LeMay's autobiography, without success. I was interested to know if he mentioned the subject of UFOs at all. In "Aliens from Space", Major Donald E. Keyhoe notes: In 1965, General LeMay discussed UFOs with Pulitzer Prize writer MacKinlay Kantor, with whom he co-authored "Mission With LeMay. My Story". In contradiction to the AF claims, the general stated there were unsolved sightings by scientists, pilots and other responsible observers. "There were some cases we could not explain," LeMay emphasized. "Repeat again. Never could". I wonder which pre-1965 cases he was referring to. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happene From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:06:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:44:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happene Regarding... >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 03:54:17 +0200 >Subject: Fwd: Kal Korff: Roswell - What Really Happened >I'm not posting this paper to endorse Korff's views, but it gives a >good summary and much stuff that needs to be debated and clarified. >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:44:38 GMT >From: cydonia@rachel.gov >Subject: ROSWELL: What really happened,,, >Melvin Brown cannot be considered a witness since he died in 1986 and >was never interviewed by UFO researchers. Indeed, the only "proof" >one has that Brown was a "witness" comes from his daughter, Beverly >Bean, who first made the claim years after his death. No other member >of Brown's family supports her claim. Kal, This isn't correct. I have on tape an interview with Brown's two daughters, Beverley and Henrietta. There's an interesting aside to Brown's story, which is mentioned in this interview. Henrietta states, "It wasn't until my dad was dying, he was in a hospital, he kept saying something about Roswell, New Mexico which we couldn't quite understand. My sister, husband and brother-in-law were there with him and he insisted that they wrote down on a piece of paper a number that he would get a lot of money for, that he had done something for 'uncle Sam'. He signed his name on a piece of paper, then made my sister sign it, my husband and my brother-in-law". Beverley continues, "We went home after he died and for a few weeks we kept thinking, what did he ever do that was so weird and the only thing we could come up with was this story that he used to tell us, two or three times... half a dozen times maybe at the most, when we were kids, this UFO story. The story is then related much as it's appeared in some publications. Beverley notes, "he always ended the story by saying, 'whatever you do, don't tell anybody, you'll get daddy into trouble'." Henrietta repeats the phrase almost in unison with her sister. Brown may have been a cook, I'm not sure if that's the case, but the explanation for him being on guard duty is that every available person was "grabbed" to guard the site. It's difficult to know what reliance to place on the account, we do know that Brown had read "The Roswell Incident", but it's an interesting tale nonetheless. Maybe someone on the list could definitively answer a question. Is there a bank in Roswell known as the "Federal Bank"? >One of the last chapters in my book examines the infamous alien >autopsy film and presents a myriad of reasons why it is a hoax. Presumably these are the same claims that were championed by Art Levine on MSNBC? You are aware, as Art came to appreciate, that all of your evidence had flaws and in many cases was simply incorrect? It might be a hoax, but not for any of the reasons you had outlined. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 14 Search for Alien Life Continues From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:54:55 -0400 Subject: Search for Alien Life Continues --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Search for Alien Life Continues Date: 97-08-13 22:08:26 EDT From: AOL News .c The Associated Press</I></PRE></HTML> By RON HARRIS MOUNTAIN VIEW, California (AP) - Is the truth really out there? A handful of scientists listening intently for faint radio signals from distant solar systems are keeping their ears, and minds, open to that possibility. Like their Hollywood counterparts in the movie ``Contact,'' scientists at the SETI Institute hunt for life in space using powerful radio telescopes. SETI, short for Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, is surveying 1,000 stars similar to our sun but light years distant. They hope that the survey, called Project Phoenix, will help answer a question as old as mankind: Are we alone? ``This is a question 100,000 civilizations have asked. We are the first civilization which could hope to answer that,'' said Seth Shostak, a scientist and spokesman for SETI. ``It would be a shame not to try.'' At their offices 35 miles (55 kilometers) south of San Francisco, SETI scientists listen for signals between 1,000 and 3,000 megahertz on the radio dial, where natural background static is at a minimum. After weeding out earthly and satellite signals, they have been left so far with no messages from space. But they persevere. SETI had its efforts cut short four years ago, when Congress trimmed its funding and booted them out of their offices at the NASA's Ames Research Center nearby. At the time, Sen. Richard Bryan, Democrat of Nevada, called SETI ``The Great Martian Chase'' and added, ``I think this money could better be left unspent.'' Donors such as Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen and Intel co-founder Gordon Moore stepped in and rescued SETI, which now receives its estimated dlrs 4 million annual budget through private contributions. Similar projects have been active since 1960, when radio astronomer Frank Drake conducted Project Ozma, the first radio scan for extraterrestrial life. Ozma didn't find anything, but Drake found his calling. Now a professor of astronomy and astrophysics at the University of California at Santa Cruz and SETI's president, Drake continues to pursue his lifelong passion. ``It's the last great adventure for humans,'' Drake said. ``It's an adventure which can guide us philosophically as to what we might become. It drives us all.'' If SETI does succeed in detecting a signal, standard protocol is that they verify it with another observatory, then notify the International Astronomical Union, Shostak said. But there remains the hazard that whoever we find may, in turn, find us. And Shostak is not discounting the notion that the aliens may be as surly as recent popular culture portrays. ``I don't think that all the advanced critters of the galaxy are going to be benign. I just can't believe that because there's a big premium that nature is willing to pay for aggression. Aggression pays,'' Shostak said. The project still represents an unproven endeavor, and fellow scientists comprise some of SETI's harshest critics. At least one peer says Project Phoenix is a waste of time - because aliens already are here. ``I think they are and have been here since 1947, implementing their strategy of gradually letting us know,'' says James Deardorff, who worked for 10 years as a senior scientist with the National Center for Atmospheric Research and for eight years as a professor at Oregon State University. In 1986, Deardorff published a paper about his alien contact theory in the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society. His work, titled ``Possible Extraterrestrial Strategy for Earth,'' claims that inconsistencies with SETI-like searches and the public panic that might ensue if a signal was detected are something aliens would anticipate and avoid. Deardorff doesn't think aliens want to be found - yet. ``They would never be able to trust that their message would get to the public as a whole,'' Deardorff said. He surmises aliens are likely to have a long-term plan to circumvent the scientific and political communities, and to make their presence known through sporadic human abductions and UFO sightings over time. ``A UFO witness would have a better idea of what's going on than Frank Drake would,'' Deardorff said. ``ET wouldn't bother to use 20th-century science.'' Another critic of SETI's reasoning is Ben Zuckerman, a professor of physics and astronomy at UCLA. If aliens exist, they wouldn't sit back and send radio waves, they'd be here, Zuckerman maintains. ``We've had life here for billions of years. If they were studying the Earth, anybody with a modicum of curiosity is going to come,'' Zuckerman said. ``They put all their eggs in one basket,'' Zuckerman said of SETI's limited search. ``For 3 billion years there was life on Earth, it was just not sending out radio waves. They've closed the door to all this kind of life.'' SETI scientists are undaunted by such peer criticism. And their diligent work has spawned similar programs at Ohio State University, the University of California at Berkeley and Harvard. BETA, or Billion-Channel Extra-Terrestrial Assay, is another radio telescope sky-survey directed by Harvard physics Professor Paul Horowitz, who shares Drake's enthusiasm and dreams of success. ``SETI is bound to succeed sooner or later,'' Horowitz said. How certain is he that life exists out there? ``Absolutely 100 percent. But you know what they say about astrophysicists,'' he said. ``Often in error, but never in doubt.'' AP-NY-08-13-97 2201EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 14 I spy From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:09:50 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:58:24 -0400 Subject: I spy Dear List: There is an interesting new development afoot which should ultimately determine a) whether we are being visited or not; and b) at what degree of frequency or regularity. Jim Deardorff will be able to work a wormhole around this particular stumbling block, no doubt, but other interested parties are directed to two recent articles about the new, high-resolution generation of civilian photo satellites which are scheduled to go into orbit soon, and which will do for aerial surveillance what commercial directional finders did for GPS, or is it GSP? Whatever, those little hand-held digital devices that let you determine just where in the hell on the planet you are. The shortest of the two articles is "Every Move You Make..." which appears on pages 18-19 of the August 2 issue of New Scientist, the English science weekly. The lengthier and more detailed article is "Private Spy" by Oliver Norton, which appears in the August issue of Wired magazine, pp. 114-119, 149-152. I don't have time to read between the lines for you here. Check 'em out on your own, though, and the conclusions should be obvious. By the year 2000 or so, anyone who wants a satellite photo of an incoming or exiting UFO should be able to buy one. For a "nominal" fee, of course. Sure, the military is going to raise some objections, and sure, there will probably be a minimum resolution limit ultimately imposed. In other words, don't expect intimate 8x10s of cigarette butts on the Area 51 runway. Still, _some_ UFOs _should_ show up on civilian satellites, and when they do (assuming they do), you can be damn certain that satellite owners (media moguls Murdoch, Gates, et al) will milk them for all they're worth. But what if UFOs _don't_ turn up on a regular basis, or a picture from a civilian satellite taken at the same time and locale as a reported UFO fails to reveal anything of a corroborative nature? Ah, government cover up, even though these aren't government satellites, and any country that can afford to put one up will be able to do so. It may be time to bring Corso out of retirement. Get the picture? Yes, we see! The leader of the pack! Brmm, brmmm! Over to you, Dave & Jim. Dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Question for Rebecca From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 03:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 03:21:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Rebecca From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:11:02 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:35:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Rebecca > Here's a copy of Kent's letter to the Prez. I had to scan and OCR from a > streaked fax, so any mistakes in spelling are probably my own. The original > was underneath the International Roswell Initiative letterhead. Thanks Dennis. > A second, different letter, dated the same day, was also sent to Janet > Murguia, Deputy Assistant to the President for Legislative Affairs. > Presumably, this is the one Rebecca referred to. Well, I knew there were two letters. The boxes I sent included copies of both. I just figured the letter to Murguia wasn't really relevant. Thanks for posting. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Re: Phoenix? From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:42:18 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:07:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Phoenix? >From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com >Date: Wednesday, 13 August 1997 3:30pm MT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO UpDate: Phoenix? and >>Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:29:25 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Phoenix????? >Event 1 was the big V. A couple in Prescott reveals that the >configuration of the V changed when it passed over their house >to a semi-circle of white lights. Then the white lights turned >red and the object or formation which was traveling at very >slow speed accelerated at rocket speed toward Phoenix. >Event 4 were desribed as spinning tops on the west side. >Event 5 were large luminous globes on the east side. >There was a second triangle with a cut-out V in its trailing edge >that passed west to east over the north of Phoenix between >10:30 PM and 10:45 PM. >A pilot saw a large cluster of lights in a roughly rectangular >formation around 10:30 PM. >The triangle variation-2 re-appeared around 2 AM on the 14th and >was witnessed by a Wackenhut guard. >It looks like it might take a small book to detail the events and >reactions to the events. >From good eye witness descriptions, I would have to conclude that >many of these objects seen that night remain unidentified and do >not fit any conventional category of flying object. Not one of >these objects made any engine sounds and several exhibited >both slow and rapid movements. >Tim Ley and his family who witnessed Event #1 swears that he was >no more than 100-150 feet under the passing object and that it >was immense, had structure, and was totally silent as it glided >through the sky at about 30 knots. I fail to see how the range of cases as reported by the esteemed (in my mind) Bill Hamilton can be construed by authorities as being military flares. I've also seen my share of flares, both airdrop and artillery/mortar versions, and by god, none of them EVER looked like one of the above descriptions. What happened to the concept of chasing these objects by way of civilian aircraft? I remember this being proposed at one stage. Yes, I know we have to wait for the next occurrence, but are the planes and pilots ready? I assume (I forget if it was mentioned in one of Bill's original reports) that we have passive Infra Red camera and viewing equipment deployed? What about a multi-frequency scanner from Radio Shack, for instance? (I assume we are scanning for cross-frequency emmissions of EMR, from visible up to microwave?). There must be somebody in the area that can source and operate some, if not all, of the required technology. Maybe we should concentrate on Phoenix, instead of something that happened 50 years ago. I think we've thrashed Roswell to death, and doubt if we are going to get any more value out of that old dog, especially since nothing new is coming in evidence-wise. Come on, guys, if this was happening over my patch of earth, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night for the excitement. Give Bill & Michael some help. From a UFO enthusiast who's near the tip of Africa, but wishes he was in Phoenix. Regards Jakes Louw
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: UFO's Flying Over East River - N.Y.C. From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 05:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:12:36 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO's Flying Over East River - N.Y.C. Hi Errol, hi all: It's good to be back again. I just wanted to tell all of you (especially John Velez) that those reddish colored UFO's are back again. A neighbor of mine and I saw them flying over the East River here on Manhattan Island. I saw them once before, but I wasn't sure of what they were. This time, I can actually report that they didn't look like balloons. They were flying lower than the first time I'd seen them. A couple of days ago, I was locked in my apartment and I couldn't get out! I called management and they opened the door for me. I had to wait 24 hours before a locksmith came. So, I stayed in my unlocked apartment alone. I telephoned a neighbor and she kept me company until my family came home. We looked out of the livingroom window because we heard the sounds of helicopers. They were flying low. We thought that perhaps, someone was going to jump off of the Brooklyn Bridge, again. That's when we saw those reddish colored objects flying over the East River. After watching them for about 20 seconds, they disappeared, but the helicopers continued on. I don't know folks!!! I don't know what the heck they were, but it scared the living poop out of us. I couldn't run out of the apartment and leave my door open! Not in N.Y.C!!! So, we sat there in my livingroom with the door open. I'm starting to get spooked. Then again, I wouldn't know what a weather balloon really looks like. I hope they weren't the UFO's we in the UFO community always talks about. Could someone please give me some input on this, so I can feel better? Maybe these UFO's were new aircraft? Perhaps the 3 dark green heli- copers just so happened to be there by chance? Thanks. Regards, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: meccam@erols.com [Melanie Mecca] Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:08:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:14:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:22:38 -0400 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> > Subject: Of Martian Cats, etc. > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Compliments of the Duke... > >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:36:08 +0200 (MET DST) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > [sniperata] > >One word: wrong! [...] > >There's also a drawing by Arnold included clearly depicting a disk- > >shaped object. This took me about 5 minutes to check. Why can't PB > >and MK do the same? > Arnold's story did vary in its (his) various tellings. However, the > drawing in Steiger is from the original USAF report (Case 17, I think) > and shows a distinctly non-round object (seen in plan view), albeit a > flattish one (side view). It may be in Arnold's own hand, or may be > that of the investigating officer. There also exists a photograph of > Arnold proudly holding a rather elaborate artwork of distinctly > crescent-shaped objects. Neither of these pix shows the "classic" > flying saucer. So. What's that one word, again? True, I didn't check, > because I didn't have to, in this case. > Yours &c > Palladino D. Masterbuilder > Art Critic As you all recall, Arnold said that the craft FLEW "like a saucer skipping on the water" - hence the birth of the name, not referring to the shape but to the flight characteristics. So what's the big deal? Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. From: meccam@erols.com [Melanie Mecca] Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:18:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:17:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:00:53 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:35:21 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > > >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:25:30 -0700 (PDT) > > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Of Martian Cats, etc. > > Hello Jim, Bob, All, > > I brought that up in an earlier message that no-one responded to. This > > business of secondary witnesses, (folks not directly involved in the > > abduction itself) is an area that has been sorely neglected. Why more > > attention isn't being paid to these very important witnesses is really > > beyond me. If just one of those accounts could be confirmed/verified it > > would put this ongoing discussion about abductions onto an entirely > > different plane. > Hello John, > They have been confirmed. When a second witness, or even a third witness, > confirms the first witness's confirmation of the abductee's account, > that's really strong verification. Perhaps someone has a list of all such > cases they know of, with references and page numbers, they could post. Great idea, why not share this information? > It used to be thought that a UFO sighting or abduction is so bizarre, so > extraordinary, that it would take an extraordinary amount of evidence to > verify it. After 30-50 years of being exposed to such events, however, > and after realizing that it's more plausible than not that aliens way > advanced over us not only exist but are around and aware of us, and > capable of doing what should seem like magic to us, it not longer seems so > extraordinary to many of us. Including the recent college-educated 65% of population in the poll on ET life who believe the visitors exist. So it should no longer be considered to require an extraordinary amount of evidence to verify the reality of UFO abductions, at least by those of us who have looked into the matter. Three cheers!!!!! And wouldn't it be a relief to conclude that, at a minimum for the sake of a more interesting list? > We can, moreover, take account of the cumulative effect of hundreds or > thousands of such cases, as science should be doing, as providing > overwhelming confirmatory evidence. Goddamn right! - nothing wrong with inductive reasoning if the sample is large enough - in the case, the sample is more than adequate and very rich in cumulative detail. > It is only those who demand that each UFO abduction case be considered >totally bizarre all over again, and treated as if no other previous cases >had occurred, and no UFO sightings, who will never be satisfied with the >amount and quality of verification. Big fat kiss on your cheek for that one, in gratitude. I feel sorry for Budd Hopkins, for instance, after 600 cases he can't count on ANY assumptions in the audience for his research and writing - has to go over the entire scenario A to Z every time he documents a case. Somehow we need to take the above sentence and put it in a full-page ad in the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal - an excellent point well stated, and one that the general populace is surely capable of appreciating!!! As for the persistent "tie it up with MY scientific ribbon" point of view, I say "Let them eat cake!" Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 More on GPS From: "Mark Pilkington" <markp@syzygy.co.uk> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:20:18 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:30:06 -0400 Subject: More on GPS An Interesting follow up to Dennis Stacy's note about GPS From the New Scientist site http://www.newscientist.co.uk/ns/970517/gps.html New Scientist, 17 May 1997 Is GPS better than the Pentagon lets on? By Vincent Kiernan Civilian users of the US military's Global Positioning System got an unexpected and tantalising treat last month. For about 19 hours on 20 April, while the US Air Force was searching for the wreckage of an A-10 ground attack aircraft missing in the Rocky Mountains, the satellite navigation system suddenly became far more accurate than usual--indeed, apparently more accurate than the Pentagon admits it can be. GPS satellites broadcast two signals. One is available to anyone, and the other is encrypted so that it is accessible only to the military. By measuring the time delay between signals from different satellites, civilian GPS receivers can generally calculate location to within 100 metres--although if signals are rebroadcast from a fixed receiver at a known position, it is possible to narrow this down to a few metres. According to the Pentagon, military GPS receivers are accurate to within about 20 metres, even without this refinement, known as differential GPS. However, Stan Huntting, the author of a program called SA Watch, which estimates the error in the GPS signals, says that on 20 April civilian GPS receivers were providing locations with an accuracy of as little as 2 metres without the help of rebroadcasting. The US Air Force Space Command, which operates the GPS satellites, confirms that the usual intentional inaccuracy in the civilian signal--a feature known as "selective availability"--was deactivated on 20 April. But Don Miles, a lieutenant-colonel and spokesman for the space command, refuses to say why. One strong possibility, however, is that the satellites were being used to aid the search for an A-10 ground attack aircraft that disappeared during a training exercise in Arizona earlier in the month. Both civilian and military planes were scouring a mountainous region of Colorado for wreckage, and giving all of the aircraft involved access to the same high-quality satellite navigation signal would have helped speed the search. Indeed, Huntting notes that shortly after the publicly available signal was returned to its usual level of accuracy the Pentagon announced that the wreckage had finally been located. The Pentagon, which has had to rely in part on "fuzzy" civilian GPS receivers because of a shortage of equipment that can receive the military broadcasts, also switched off selective availability at the start of the Gulf War to improve the civilian signal. "In all the major conflicts we've had to date, they've turned it off," says Laurence Adams, a former president of the aerospace company Lockheed. Adams also chaired a National Research Council panel which argued in 1995 that selective availability should be permanently deactivated (This Week, 10 June 1995, p 8). President Bill Clinton's administration has promised to do this, but has not yet set a date. Civilian GPS users were eagerly discussing the 20 April incident last week on the Internet, and are arguing that the Pentagon should be more forthcoming about the technical capability of its navigation system. Mark Pilkington Magonia Online http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk Look out for me on live webcam http://www.cix.co.uk/~oxblood/cam.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Close Encounter Of A British Air Marshall From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:53:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:31:29 -0400 Subject: Close Encounter Of A British Air Marshall Received this from the "Skywatch" mailing list August 14. An abbreviated version of this article appeared in "The Advertiser", a South Australian daily, on August 11 and was posted to UFO Updates immediately after. ("I met An Alien..." received August 12 at 05.12 local Danish time (GMT + 2 hours). Unfortunately I had to restore the text as it was quite mutilated, with no line breaks and, it seems, no spell-checking. 14. August 1997 12.02.41 Message From: skywatch@wic.net,Internet Subject: Skywatch: Air Marshal Sir Peter Horsley-BOOK ON UFOS/ALIENS To: Stig Agermose skywatch@wic.net,Internet ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:50:00 -0700 (PDT) To: hansons@worldnet.att.net From: NEIL CUNNINGHAM <106015.2402@compuserve.com> (by way of abcdefg <logger@california.com>) Subject: Air Marshal Sir Peter Horsley-BOOK ON UFOS/ALIENS To the Insiders UFO List: ________________________________________________________________________ ____ RE: Air Marshal Sir Peter Horsley Article from UK newspaper The Mail on Sunday Aug 10th 1997. Another book, more ET's! Close encounter in a Chelsea flat. Military giants don't come much bigger than Air Marshall Sir Peter Horsley. A war hero who flew Mosquitoes against the Germans, he has held one of the highest ranks in the RAF and has been an intimate adviser to the Queen and Prince Philip. He has also, he claims, met a visitor from another galaxy. Sir Peter has kept his close encounter with the mysterious man he calls Mr Janus in a London flat a secret for 43 years. But now, at the age of 76, he is ready to go public. Fixing me with a steely gaze, he says: "We talked for hours about travelling in space and time. I don't know what or who he was. He didn't say he was a visitor from another planet but I had that impression. I believe he was here to observe us. I never saw him again. I have no qualms about the reaction to my experience with Mr Janus. I don't care what people think - it was what happened." His extraordinary testimony - in his autobiography, Sounds from Another Room, to be published in the autumn - and his uncompromising belief in Unidentified Flying Objects will no doubt ruffle the sangfroid of the men at the Ministry. For, incredible as it seems, it is the evidence of a man who once ran the country's front line defence at RAF Strike Command and was a Buckingham Palace aide for six years. At his riverside cottage in Hampshire, where Christmas cards from the royal family hang in the lavatory, he discusses the presence of alien spacecraft with unswerving nonchalance. "I would say they come from another planet somewhere in the universe but not in our galaxy. They are benign, not aggressive and, like us, are explorers", he says. His interest in UFO's began, he says, in 1952 while he was an equerry to the Duke of Edinburgh and was sparked by newspaper reports at the time. He joined the Royal Household in 1949 as a squadron leader who had been decorated for his work as personal pilot to Major General Sir Miles Graham during the Normandy Invasion. Sir Peter says he talked to Prince Philip of his interest in UFO's. "He was quite interested. As always his mind was open. He agreed I should do a study on the subject in my spare time as long as I kept it in perspective and didn't bring the Palace into disrepute. He didn't want to see headlines about him believing in little green men." Sir Peter started by interviewing people who had claimed to have seen UFO's and invited a BOAC captain to visit him at Buckingham Palace. His own encounter came in 1954. "At the end of my tour at the Palace, I had a very strange experience", he recalls with charming understatment. He says he was introduced to a General Martin who arranged for him to visit the Chelsea home of a Mrs Markham. Sir Peter cannot remember the date or the number of the flat in Smith St. - nor can he describe the man he met there - but he is adamant the encounter took place. "Janus was there, sitting by the fire in a deep chair. He asked:"What is your interest in flying saucers?" And then he gave a Wellsian account of space travel at the speed of light with spare body parts in the luggage. When Sir Peter went back to the flat it was empty. But his interest in the paranormal stayed with him during his rise through the ranks to the crucial post of Deputy Commander in Chief of RAF Strike Command in 1973. Sir Peter insists: "I don't think I am a crank about it at all." But at the Ministry of Defense in Whitehall, jaws are dropping. As one former senior officer put it: "Oh God. How unfortunate that the public will learn that the man who had his finger on the button at Strike Command was seeing little green men". Sounds From Another Room is published by Leo Cooper in October. ---------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | skywatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Aug 97 09:26:04 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:00:00 -0400 Subject: Re: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:08:57 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy Henny, You are a genius, sir! Wonderful analogy and highly imaginative. Remember the old Indian proverb about the blind men and the elephant?? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Question for Rebecca From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Aug 97 09:26:06 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:03:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Rebecca >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:11:02 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Rebecca >From the Kent Jeffrey letter to President Clinton: >While the initiative was originally inspired by the 1947 Roswell event, >extensive research has established that the Roswell incident itself did not >involve an extraterrestrial craft. Whether it is justified or not, there >is a widespread lack of confidence in the government's forthrightness with >regard to the UFO phenomenon, even among those who do not believe a UFO >crashed at Roswell in 1947. For example, a late-1996 Gallup poll revealed >that 71 percent of the American public believes that "the U.S. government >knows more about UFOs than it is telling." Translation: Hey Prez, Here's bunch of signatures on something called the Roswell Initiative. I now know that Roswell was a bunch of bullshit, so I don't know why I'm bothering with this. Anyhow, you might think about issuing a Presidential Decree about this wacko nonsense. Kent Jeffrey Sorry Rebecca and other Jeffrey apologists, But if this letter doesn't prove Kent's real objective, I don't know what would. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Blanchard and LeMay From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:20:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Blanchard and LeMay > From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:54:21 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Blanchard and LeMay >GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- The following query/challenge was posted on >UpDates >by Kevin Randle: >>From: KRandle993@aol.com >>Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:46:47 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >>Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:03:46 -0500 (CDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >>>From: DRudiak@aol.com >>>Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:36:51 -0400 (EDT) >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon >> It's been said that Blanchard was both a hotshot and a protege of >>Curtis LeMay. >>Let's put this one to bed. There is NO evidence that this is true. >>Who said this and when? Can we document this allegation? >>Let's have some names and records so that it can be checked. >>If such does not exist, then let's eliminate it because it is >>not true. >>KRandle >Kevin didn't direct this to me. However, I was the first to suggest >Blanchard's personality/style was a factor in the release of the RAAF "was >fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc" press announcement [snip, to cut the commercial... Sorry Karl] >Quoting from "RiP," "He was an outstanding pilot, highly >skilled, steel nerved, something of a risk taker--a 'natural'" in the >strategic combat arm of the Air Force--and he (again from "RiP") "lacked >neither ego nor ambition." He was typical of the best of his generation of >World War II seasoned, "go to hell" military leaders. In short, he and >his mentor General Curtis E. LeMay had a lot in common. Let's, see, Karl quotes himself to make his point... which isn't made here. He still has presented no evidence that Blanchard was either a "loose cannon" as he has suggested in the past, or that LeMay was his mentor. [snip] >(4) There never was a successful senior career military officer who didn't >have at least one powerful mentor who guided and protected him and, when >necessary, helped bail him out of difficulties (in the USAF such a patron is >known as a rabbi). Then, to use a Marine Corps term, there's the >"ring-knocker" phenomenon--the Long Gray Line, old-school-tie, old-boy >network thing. Powerful anywhere, it's so in spades in the military, and >when reinforced by shared combat experience, it becomes a blood bond. I'm not sure that there never was a successful senior career military officer who didn't have at least on powerful mentor... this is all speculation. I never heard the term rabbi used when I was in the Air Force. Ring knocker refers to any academy graduate whether he or she is Army, Navy, or Air Force. While in the Army I was fully aware of the WPPA, that is, the West Point Protective Association. But again, we are treated to speculation and not fact. [snip of irrelevant description of problems faced by Col. John Ryan and other interesting but irrelevant tidbits] >(8) Embarrassing but contained matters like the Roswell dust-up and any >chewing out of those responsible are rarely put on the record. This is >especially so when the principal "culprit" is a highly regarded officer like >Blanchard, and doubly so if said officer had a rabbi named LeMay. It's safe >to say Blanchard received more than one "blistering rebuke" by phone and >perhaps in person, and I'll bet one of them came from LeMay. Again, there is no proof offered that LeMay was Blanchard's rabbi. >None of the above institutional-traditional military realities is news to >anyone who's been in the military (as, e.g., Kevin Randle) or has had >significant close professional contact with the military, especially at the >highest levels. >Hokay, Kevin and List, here at last are the promised sources concerning >Blanchard's proclivity for "pushing the envelope," his relationship with >LeMay, and help he received from LeMay in getting out of scrapes, all but >three of them (indicated thus: *) referenced and footnoted in "RiP," 1994: >* Curtis E. LeMay with Mackinley Kantor, MISSION WITH LEMAY: MY STORY, >Doubleday, 1965.* Blanchard, who served with LeMay in the Pacific during >WW II and later at SAC headquarters and in the Pentagon, is mentioned >extensively throughout. LeMay even plugs him for chief of staff of the air >force. Anyone doubting a close professional/personal/rabbi-protege >LeMay-Blanchard relationship after reading this couldn't be convinced even by >direct observation that the sun rises in the east. They had a close relationship, LeMay liked and respected Blanchard, but that is not evidence of this mythical rabbi-protege relationship, or that LeMay protected Blanchard after the Roswell news release. > * It is important to note that all but one of the following gentlemen >held/hold Blanchard in the highest esteem and most considered him a good >friend-- > --MG Woodrow P. Swancutt, USAF (ret.), 3/21/93. Gen. Swancutt is now > deceased. > --BG Joseph O. Fletcher, USAF (ret.). Gen. Fletcher's views were provid ed > to me in 1993 by a very reliable source. > --COL Virgil "Luke" Sewell, USAF (ret.), 9/12/93. > --COL Arthur Jeffrey, USAF (ret.), ca. mid-'94.* > --Robert J. Shirkey, 3/21/94. > --Walter G. Haut, 11/2/92. > --MSGT Lewis ("Bill") Rickett, USAF (ret.)*, passing remarks in an > interview with Mark Rodeghier, 1/90. > --While I can't personally speak to the truth of this, Kevin, you might > want to ask Frank Kaufmann about the aerial tequila run he says he mad e > to Mexico in an AT-6 with Blanchard, Blanchard at the controls. > Hope this helps. -- Over and out, KARL >> And there is not one thing here to suggest that Blanchard was a loose cannon. What we have is a list of people who respected Blanchard. So, I say again, there is no evidence that Blanchard was a loose cannon and no evidence that Blanchard and LeMay were anything other than good friends. There is no evidence of a rabbi/protege relationship. There is good evidence that Blanchard was a fine officer who rose steadily through the ranks. KRandle Search for other documents from or mentioning: krandle993 | ktperehwon
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Day time Sightings From: "Peter Goodine" <pgoodine@interhop.net> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:43:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:23:06 -0400 Subject: Day time Sightings Greetings, I request any and all information on day time sightings possible. I'm searching for a patteren in the sightings. You may send it direct to me or through the list. Thank You Grant Goodine pgoodine@interhop.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: NASA Flouts Einstein From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:30:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:24:05 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA Flouts Einstein > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:50:45 +0200 > Subject: NASA Flouts Einstein, Explores Feasibility Of Interstellar Travel > Found at: > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/examiner/article.cgi?year=3D1997&month=3D08&= da > y=3D11&article=3DNEWS378.dtl > The text speaks for itself, but the NASA link at the end doesn't work. > Stig > Monday, Aug. 11, 1997 =B7 Page A 1 =A91997 San Francisco Examiner > NASA flouts Einstein, explores feasibility of interstellar journeys > Key to star treks may be found in science fiction > Keay Davidson > EXAMINER SCIENCE WRITER > In a development straight out of "Star Trek," NASA is looking seriously > at the feasibility of flight to the stars. Big Snip...... Hi Stig, EBK and List, Good posting Stig and hurrah for NASA. It's about time they got their heads out of their asses and into the realm of some serious space travel. Though many have suggested and dreamed of just this possibility [some scientists and many sci-fi writers] it really takes those in a position to do something about it...to do something about it..even if the funding for the 1 year project is only $50,000. What the hey..it's a start. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Pop Culture for Kids From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:07:58 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:25:45 -0400 Subject: Pop Culture for Kids Saturday, September 6 or Sunday, September 7, 1997 BURBANK, Calif., Aug. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Kids' WB! is overrun with alien beings Saturday, September 6 or Sunday, September 7, 1997 (8:00 a.m.-12:00 p.m., ET) (check local listings) when Daffy Duck and his eager cadet, Porky Pig, venture on several exciting space odysseys on "The Daffy Duck Show" (8:00 a.m.). The vacationing Warners are abducted by aliens on "Steven Spielberg Presents Animaniacs" (8:30 a.m.), but manage to turn the tables on their captors once aboard an inter-galactic spacecraft. And, when aliens terrorize the city of Metropolis on "Superman" (9:00 a.m.), the "man of steel" must face off with his evil adversary, Lex Luthor, who is conspiring with the aliens. On "Road Rovers" (9:30 a.m.), the courageous canines, The Rovers, are called in to action because an alien spaceship is using mind-controlling technology to persuade world leaders to declare war on each other. "Steven Spielberg Presents Pinky & the Brain" (10:30 a.m.) finds an evil alien utilizing extraterrestrial capabilities to obtain access to The Brain's thought processes. On "The Sylvester & Tweety Mysteries" (11:30 a.m.), Granny, Tweety and Hector are vacationing in Yosemite National Park and are oblivious to the alien invasion being witnessed by the eternally paranoid Sylvester. Kids' WB! is the WB Television Network's children's programming service.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Earth lights - Objections From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:10:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:27:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Earth lights - Objections > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Earth lights - Objections > Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:52:46 -0700 > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/11/97 9:03 PM: > > From: DRudiak@aol.com > > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:56:22 -0400 (EDT) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Earth lights - Objections I wonder if we might not be a little more careful on how far we carry a thread...for instance this one. It is 'Subject'-ed as Earthlights and yet the text is about anything but. I only mention this because I'm sure others do the same as I when skimming their latest mail, they delete some material out of hand going only by the subject heading particularly if the heading has been going for some time. The meat of this current discussion below re the trace weights of a suspected UFO is of great interest to me while the subject of earthlights is not. I rejected that angle as an explanation for most UFO sightings many years ago. I am not so pragmatic as to discount them entirely but as far as I am concerned they are a poor explanation for anything in this field. I bring this to your attention lest I and others inadvertantly delete what could have been an extremely interesting piece of information under the wrong subject heading in our haste to get to the meat off the matters that interest us deeply. And for Mark who obviously has not experienced the joys of the metric system yet [but you probably will..sooner than you think <G>] one kilogram is pretty close to 2.2 lbs. Don Ledger Search for other documents from or mentioning: dledger | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Question for Rebecca From: DianaOmega@aol.com [Dianne Cameron] Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:31:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Rebecca >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:11:02 -0500 (CDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Rebecca In a message dated 8/14/97 2:12:30 AM, Dennis Stacy wrote: >Rebecca & List: >Here's a copy of Kent's letter to the Prez. I had to scan and OCR >from a streaked fax, so any mistakes in spelling are probably >my own. The original was underneath the International Roswell >Initiative letterhead. >July 8, 1997 >President Bill Clinton >1600 Pennsylvania Avenue >Washington, DC 20500 >Dear President Clinton, <snip> >While the initiative was originally inspired by the 1947 >Roswell event, extensive research has established that >the Roswell incident itself did not involve an extraterrestrial >craft. As a signator of the Roswell Initiative, I am truly astounded by the hubris of this statement. I have always thought Kent to be a personable and sincere person. But there is no justifiable excuse for misrepresenting what I and many others signed in good faith, Kent's personal opinion notwithstanding. If this is truly a copy of the cover letter sent to President Clinton, shame on you Kent! Dianne Cameron
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Derrel Sims in Israel - Fwd From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:43:30 -0400 Subject: Derrel Sims in Israel - Fwd From: Virgil Priscu <priscuv@shani.net> I think I have to react to the above mentioned posting because I feel that people with interest in the UFO field can be mislead by the information presented. I am a physician, specialist in anesthesiology, head of a Department in a teaching hospital in Israel. I have also a long time interest in UFO phenomena. I had the opportunity to meet Mr. Derrel Sims personally during a recent visit he made in Israel.At that occasion he presented in front of a small audience some of the results of his research. Let me point out some details: Dr. R. Lear, Mr. Sims' collaborator is not a physician (MD), and much less a "surgeon", but a podiatrist (licenced to make small surgical interventions on the foot only.) Mr Simms could be a "qualified Hypnotherapist" - I do not know. What I know for sure is that Mr Sims stories have medical inaccuracies regarding details of the operations performed for the removals of what he and his organisation (FIRST) claims to be "implants" (with all the implications of this term -in the way it is used -namely implying to describe an object manufactured by extraterrestrial beings with the purpose of monitoring/controling humans, etc.) Absolutely no evidence of such was presented by Mr. Sims at the presentation which I personally witnessed. I could add that he became visibly disturbed when I asked him specific questions regarding the alleged "implants" and he gave inadequate answers regarding such specific topics as the dose of local anesthetic used for the extraction of the so called "implants". I specifically asked him to provide me with color slides of the actual pathological specimens that he extracted from the subjects studied. He declined under various motives. No other evidence or specimen was available to my specific request. I asked him for such because I have the possibility to made them examined by some of my friends either in the pathology Dpt of my Medical Center, The Forensic Medical Institute at Abu Kabir or at The Weizmann Institute in Rehovot - Israel. No specimen, pathological slide or other material was available from Mr. Sims for examination by an independent specialist or laboratory - as I have asked. I am afraid that all claims made by Mr Sims or his associates have not been confirmed or underwent a pair review process, therefore I personally have serious doubts as to the veracity of those claims. I would like to emphasize that I am a physician with about 20 years of experience in the operating room, in the field of anesthesiology and emergency medicine. I know a thing or two about what we call "Foreign Bodies" (FB) found quite often, especially in the feet of some unsuspecting patients by an incidental X Ray made for another purpose. They get there by a variety of methods : waking or playing bare foot on the beach, grass etc, and not noticing when the FB is getting in. (during a fall, running, getting hurt by some other bigger object from which a small splinter can get into one's foot and remain there for many, many years under the skin - until sometimes they are discovered by chance while some other physician or medical practitioner - like a podiatrist - is examining the patient for another, unrelated complain - and sometimes X Ray their feet!) If it is a substance that degrade slowly, then after years only a small notch of"reaction" tissue remains in the place of the former FB. It is composed of human tissue components - etc.. No mystery, no "implants". This is my two cents of caution about the above mentioned subject. I firmly belive that "UFO phenomena" exist. I also firmly belive that meticulous research by competent persons is the way to the truth. Sincerely yours: Virgil Priscu MD priscuv@shani.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Astronauts Study Hale-Bopp Comet From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:45:12 -0400 Subject: Astronauts Study Hale-Bopp Comet .c The Associated Press By MARCIA DUNN CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) - Space shuttle Discovery's astronauts took more pictures of the Hale-Bopp comet today and struggled with a balky vibration experiment. Mission Control said the device, intended to isolate unwanted vibrations from delicate science samples, apparently has problems with its electronics. The crew also learned, within moments of the landing, that two cosmonauts from Russia's Mir space station had returned to Earth after a trying, six-month mission. ``We're glad they're safely on the ground,'' shuttle commander Curtis Brown Jr. told Mission Control. The astronauts continued to keep tabs on the ozone-monitoring satellite they dropped off last Thursday, just hours after their launch. They plan to snag the satellite on Saturday for next week's trip home. Scientists operating the satellite say they need to retrieve their data before commenting on the condition of Earth's ozone layer. Almost all of the non-stop atmospheric measurements are stored on board the satellite. ``We cannot say anything about the ozone presently - except that we measure it,'' said Dirk Offermann, a German scientist in charge of the infrared telescopes on the satellite. Inspections, meanwhile, of the retrieved solid-fuel booster rockets used to launch Discovery reveal a little extra damage to the insulation of one of the nozzles, said NASA spokeswoman June Malone. This more than usual amount of erosion in the right booster is well within safety limits, she said. Last year, hot gases burned away an excessive amount of nozzle insulation during two shuttle launches. Malone said Wednesday that the latest abnormality is so slight that engineers might not have noticed it if it weren't for last year's problems. NASA has been extra cautious with boosters ever since a leak in one caused space shuttle Challenger to explode shortly after liftoff in 1986, killing all seven crew members. AP-NY-08-14-97 1046EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: I spy From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:56:13 -0400 Subject: Re: I spy >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:09:50 -0500 (CDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: I spy >But what if UFOs _don't_ turn up on a regular basis, or a picture from a >civilian satellite taken at the same time and locale as a reported UFO fails >to reveal anything of a corroborative nature? Ah, government cover up, even >though these aren't government satellites, and any country that can afford >to put one up will be able to do so. It may be time to bring Corso out of >retirement. Well, Dennis, that's certainly what we'll hear if UFOs don't turn up on the imagery. But there is another possibility, my semi-serious working notion that the saucer-nauts were here and have left, long since. They hung around the solar system for about 20 years (ca. 1945 - ca. 1965), studying us closely. Occasionally a couple of grad students got drunk and buzzed the natives, and once in a while an over-eager scientist, ignoring the "prime directive," bagged and studied a couple of specimens (e.g., Barney and Betty Hill; remember the argument between "leader" and crew over letting Betty keep that book). Then they packed up (being careful to police up their candy wrappers, etc.) and moved on...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Blanchard and LeMay From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:55:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Blanchard and LeMay In a message dated 08/14/97 01:08:19, I wrote: <<Hokay, Kevin and List, here at last are the promised sources concerning Blanchard's proclivity for "pushing the envelope," his relationship with LeMay, and help he received from LeMay in getting out of scrapes, all but three of them (indicated thus: *) referenced and footnoted in "RiP," 1994:>> Just noticed that my bullets appeared as asterisks when this was posted, thus undoubtedly causing some confusion--not to mention delicious thrills for the conspiratorialists out there. So... The three sources NOT previously cited in "RiP" are: (1) LeMay's autobiog., (2) Colonel Jeffrey, and (3) "Bill" Rickett. Sorry all.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Sonic Booms Blasts From Known Aircraft or Skunk From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:51:38 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:57:16 -0400 Subject: Sonic Booms Blasts From Known Aircraft or Skunk Sonic Booms Blasts From Known Aircraft or Planes From the Skunk Works? The Virginian-Pilot and The Ledger-Star, Norfolk, VA Wed, Aug 13 1997 A spokeswoman at Naval Air Station Patuxent River attributed tremors that alarmed and mystified Hampton Roads in June to sonic booms from two F-18s flying "a research and development mission" off the East Coast. Perhaps that was the truth. But a couple of weeks ago, The New York Times reported: "In the darkest days of the Cold War, the military lied to the American public about the true nature of many unidentified flying objects in an effort to hide its growing fleets of spy planes, a CIA study says." In these brighter post-Cold War days, is the military lying about the source of at least some of the sonic booms that have rocked Southeastern Virginia and other parts of the United States? A major problem with lies, however justified by national-security concerns, is that they stir mistrust when they are found out. A former military aviator, citing sonic booms that rattle Americans from time to time, suggested to me in a dinner conversation a few days before publication of The Times' report that the booms may be caused by a new spy plane that flies higher and faster than the SR-71 "Blackbird," which the Air Force officially retired from surveillance chores several years ago. He conjectured that the new aircraft - if it exists - flies as high as 100,000 feet and travels up to seven or eight times the speed of sound. He disclaimed any knowledge of such an entity, and I have no way of assessing the merit of his conjecture. The Air Force says the United States now relies solely on orbiting satellites for aerial reconnaissance - that spy planes are neither cost-efficient nor necessary. But the military could be engaged in a deception - for national-security purposes, of course - that conceals yet another stunning advance in U.S. aviation technology. Consider: The U-2 that spied on the former Soviet Union and other territories starting in the mid-1950s soared up to 60,000 feet. The Kremlin military knew about the spy plane but couldn't bag one. The world learned about the U-2 when the Soviets succeeded in shooting down Francis Gary Powers late in the Eisenhower presidency. The SR-71 followed the U-2, coming on line in the 1960s. It soared to more than 80,000 feet (15 miles above sea level and near the limit of the atmosphere). And it flew considerably faster than the U-2. The Virginian-Pilot reported on Dec. 9, 1992, that a sonic boom which triggered about 50 calls to Virginia Beach police was caused by an SR-71 "flying about Mach 3, or three times the speed of sound." The speed of sound at sea level is about 750 mph. A military spokesman said the SR-71 flight had originated at Edwards Air Force Base in California. The newspaper noted that the Air Force had ended SR-71 spy missions two years before, but NASA was using the plane "for high-speed and high-altitude aeronautics research." A few months earlier, The Pilot had carried a Newsday report about possible military tests of ultrasecret high-speed aircraft: "From the deserts of California to the panhandle of Texas, civilian observers have reported intriguing hints that the Pentagon may be testing one or more super-secret aircraft, including perhaps one with a revolutionary form of propulsion. "They say they have photographed contrails shaped like `doughnuts on a rope,' seen delta-shaped aircraft with unusual lights, and heard engines that pulse with enough force to make walls quiver and sleepers awake. "There is speculation the craft may include next-generation spy planes, either manned or unmanned, capable of flying several times the speed of sound, matching or exceeding the fastest planes. . . . According to Aviation Week magazine, there have been other reports of pulsarlike engine noises and the distinctive contrails have been reported over Edwards Air Force Base . . . ; Portland, Ore.; and Denver." Sonic booms of such force that they make headlines are not exactly rare. Among reports turned up by an Internet search: >From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (May 17): "A big blast and tremble (that St. Joseph, Mo.) residents . . . reported Thursday wasn't an earthquake, but it was probably a jet. . . . The loud noise that reportedly shook the ground was caused by an SR-71 . . . traveling across the country for a demonstration, said Sally Freis, a spokeswoman for Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska." >From the Omaha World Herald (May 16): "Residents became alarmed when a loud `boom' shook the city Thursday afternoon. The noise turned out to be a high-altitude (SR-71) aircraft breaking the sound barrier while flying over Gage County, said Lt. Joe Hawkins at Offutt Air Force Base." >From an Associated Press report (March 21, 1996): "Military jets staging a mock battle rocked northwestern Oregon with a pair of thunderous sonic booms Thursday, panicking some coast residents who thought a tidal wave was headed their way. . . .The noises were caused by three Oregon Air National Guard F-15 fighter jets and two Air Force B-1 bombers that had joined a military exercise off the coast." >From the Tulsa, Okla., World (March 10, 1996): "More than 100 people called Tulsa police and firefighters Saturday to report the sound of a loud explosion which shook houses, a noise authorities believe to have been a sonic boom." And so on. The recent New York Times report was based on "The CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90," written by Gerald K. Haines and published in Studies of Intelligence, a secret CIA journal. The Times identifies Haines as "a historian at the National Reconnaissance Office, the intelligence agency that builds and runs the nation's spy satellites." Reports The Times: "Rather than acknowledging the existence of the top-secret flights or saying nothing about them publicly, the Air Force decided to put out false cover stories, the CIA study says. For instance, unusual observations that were actually spy flights were attributed to atmospheric phenomena like ice crystals and temperature inversions. `Over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the 1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights' over the United States, the CIA study says. `This led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements' to the public in order to allay public fears to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project."' Believing that UFOs are extraterrestial spaceships has always struck me as wacky. But all of the UFOites who have accused the Air Force of not telling the truth about UFOs have been proved right. And now there are these sonic booms that are blamed on aircraft everyone knows about. So I wonder. Copyright 1997, The Virginian-Pilot and The Ledger-Star, Norfolk, VA. All rights reserved. Republication and redistribution of The Virginian-Pilot and The Ledger-Star, Norfolk, VA content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of The Virginian-Pilot and The Ledger-Star, Norfolk, VA. The Virginian-Pilot and The Ledger-Star, Norfolk, VA shall not be liable for errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. =BF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #168 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:01:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:57:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #168 Apology to MW #168 (For August 14, 1997) Well here I am and there you are, As I rebound from your walls. Your barrier's impregnable; My forthright rush now crawls. Metaphor that I'm a prophet, and you're a sullen David -- I tell your dimpled golf ball where it lays. And my course gets more expansive in continued education, With the rising of new suns, and the passing of old days. The world is a funny place -- No laughter, just peculiar . . . Your dissonance is palpable; You cut your losses like a jeweler. The first to go is conscience; You're led to _strike_ that from your life. The next to go's integrity, As you buy into the right. And that smidgen of percentage With all control and might Manipulates reality -- They don't even have to fight. For example, in the *news* When the subject is a strike. The owners make kind "offers." But the union makes "demands" -- incite! Now remember that the DOW is surging, And wages have BEEN FLAT! The owner's offer stinks of greed! That's disrespect, just think of that! The Watchers watch from orbit. They perceive the real deal. They are baffled to distraction, And they record the way we feel. We juggle pebbles like they're pearls While real diamonds go ignored. We've precious gemstones in our reach -- Their positions unexplored. It's not the way you pray it is. You live a life of dreams. You are blind with indecision; You are deaf to inner screams. You live a life of comfort That is paid in other's strife, And you don't like the reminder That you spend another's life. Every burger pounded down, comes out of someone's hide. And mere clothing washed is resource used intensive. The way you're living life is just another persons burden; This is far and wide, and wholly comprehensive. Lehmberg@snowhill.com If we use more than half the stuff, we need to be paying more than half the freight -- we don't. If we don't pay soon -- kids will be paying later. . . . . .like they don't pay _now_ to the tune of 30,000 lives a day,. . . We are being _watched_ as we pull the wings from flies. We'd stop if we knew. Somebody is going to have to tell us. How about the people we pay to keep us informed? -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for asking who payed so the priesthood could play. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Crop Circle Connector #38 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:28:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 09:59:37 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #38 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #38 Members = 2080 What's New on the Crop Circle Connector. Friday 15th August 1997 ********************************************* We would like to apologise to all of our readers on the Mailing List for the delay in updating the Crop Circle Connector. The work load had become increasingly heavier during the last couple of weeks, as this is the busiest time for the 1997 Crop Circle Season. Once again we apologise! ****************************************************** New Formations at Badbury Castle, Nr Swindon. A cluster of formations once again adorn the slopes of Badbury, or as some say Liddington Castle. A nice selection of formations some located in the same field as the 1996 shapes. See Crop Circles 1997 ****************************************************** New Formations at Etchilhampton. Finally we can confirm the formations below the hillside at Etchilhampton, and what a diverse selection they are! and extremely impressive. Take a look! See Crop Circles 1997 ***************************************************** New Formation at Southease, East Sussex The second formation to appear in Sussex, a little quiet I feel down there. **************************************************** New Formation at Forton, Nr Shrewsbury. A neat Dumbell, situated southside of A5. **************************************************** New Formation at Servington, in Kent. *************************************************** New Formation in Earlswood Nr Solihull (Birmingham) *************************************************** Leimuiden, in Holland (North) has a new formation, from the photograph it resembles an early design from 1990-91. See Inter Crop Circles 1997 **************************************************** We hope to add images to these new formation by the weekend. All the best Stuart & Mark -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Thu, 14 Aug 97 18:52:43 cst Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:01:54 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:05:51 -0400 >From: Theresa 110213.3274@compuserve.com> >Subject: Copy of: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Vince, >>The staging of the video is very good -- excellent art direction and >>special effects work. < >This seems to be in conflict with what the SFX experts say. Those >that have commented are of the opinion that it is a poorly made >special effect. They say they wouldn't have made it like this. >This then leaves the possibility that it was created by someone >not so expert in the craft, and also the possibility that it isn't a >special effects creation. If a fake, it would have to be the work of very skilled artists/craftsmen. Noted S/FX wizard Stan Winston said that while he believes the AA video to be a fake, he wouldn't hesitate to hire the person who created the effects. You seem to be making the case that if the AA video looks fake or amateurish, then that is a point supporting the authenticity of the AA video. I just don't see the logic there. >>Camera work is inexcusably sloppy -- so bad it's obviously intended to >>obscure rather than reveal. >This is an opinion as well. (And that's okay, there is nothing wrong >with opinion. The only way that you could know it as a fact is if you were >there during the filming.) >But what is it that is obscured by the camerawork? Of course it's opinion, Theresa (unless I'm speaking as Supreme Primate of the New World Order, when my opinions carry the weight of divinely inspired law for all humanity). If the AA footage was real, then I don't think there would be any argument over whether or not the camerawork was 'professional' or not -- it's wretched. My 8-year-old son could shoot better footage (focus, motion, etc.). However, if the AA footage were faked, wouldn't you agree that such artfully awful camerawork would obscure those potentially hoax-revealing, deal-killing details such as the internal organs that we never get a good look at? >>EVERY CLAIM made by the promoters of the AA "film" has vaporized into >>the ether -- >This is most interesting because every claim made by the demoters of >the film has vaporized into the ether as well. Why does one side's vapor >convince you more than the other side's? >You didn't exactly answer my question, which was is your calling the >footage a scam a fact or just your opinion. However, from your comments >it would appear that it is indeed your opinion. Which claims are you referring to? The only relevant claims are those made by the video's promoters. They are advancing the proposition that what they are selling is authentic footage of a real alien autopsy. If those claims don't hold up under scrutiny (as they haven't) or contain any interior coherence (which they don't), then it's my *opinion* that they're selling bunkum. >>My question is: How can *anybody* take these guys seriously? >Same way they can take you seriously I guess. You are claiming scam >based on only opinion. It's just the opposite opinion of those that >think it is real. Fair enough. Only the strengths of our respective arguments are different. >The difference is that for some reason you take to calling names, and >I don't believe I have seen the others do that. Hucksters? Scam artists? Conmen? >You commented somewhere that you felt that what Bob Shell is doing >is 'marketing'. What would you call what you are doing? I have no financial interest in the AA affair one way or another. The AA video proponents most definitely have a financial stake in preserving the belief among as large a market as possible that the AA video is real. That's marketing. If the AA video were revealed as a hoax I suspect that Santilli's sales would fall dramatically. Under these conditions, who would you normally assume to be more objective -- the salesmen or the skeptic? Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Strange Light Viewed On NASA Shuttle Broadcast From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 05:32:11 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:34:58 -0400 Subject: Strange Light Viewed On NASA Shuttle Broadcast Published at the site of NACOMM August 12 1997. http://www.nacomm.org/sighting/1997/shuttufo.htm "NACOMM stands for New Age Communications. Founded in 1992, NACOMM is an Organization devoted to the Research and Investigation of Unidentified Flying Objects and other unusual related phenomenon occuring in the State of Minnesota, USA. NACOMM Mission Statement! We are in no way affiliated with the New-Age Movement or any other private, public, or government organization." Here's the post: STRANGE LIGHT VIEWED ON NASA SHUTTLE BROADCAST This Sighting Report received via NACOMM's Sightings Report Form today from Randy S. of Austin, Texas. Thanks! Experience: On Sunday, August 10, 1997 at around 9:45am CDT, I was watching TV and switched to the NASA channel for news of the ongoing shuttle mission. At the time, they were broadcasting a nighttime view of Earth. As I watched, I was surprised to see a light rising vertically from the bottom of the screen where Earth was displayed. As it continued to rise vertically (relative to the TV screen), the shuttle camera clearly began to track the light and kept the picture centered on it. After it rose well above the horizon of Earth, the light made an apparent 90-degree turn to the right (again relative to the screen) and continued off in that direction. The shuttle camera continued to track the object and began to zoom in for a closer look. At that point NASA cut off the feed from the external camera and displayed the Houston space center instead. Unfortunately, I wasn't prepared to record this on my VCR. The entire episode lasted less than a minute, so I was unable to get the VCR ready in time. NACOMM with any further information! Click HERE To Report your Sighting! Return to NACOMM
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Rebecca Rants From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:42:31 -0400 Subject: Rebecca Rants Greetings all, More and more, I've been hearing how bad the ufological community is about attacking their own. Most recently (August 14), I listenend to an interview of Roger Leir on Jeff Rense's "Sightings on the Radio" program, where he whined about the people in ufology attacking their [Sims and Leir] claims. I was having some problems staying connected to the server, so I'll need to listen to the program again, once it's archived but the message seemed to be that we should not criticize others in this field. BTW, you can listen to this most fascinating program at http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/archive.stm. It's the third hour of the program in which Leir is interviewed. My questions are: Is it wrong of ufologists to point out flaws in other ufologists arguments/statements? Is this somehow worse than say, the general public or even CSICOP doing it? Should we just let anyone in this field make any kind of claim and support them, no matter what? I really would like some feedback on this. BTW, Leir claims now to be in possession of FOUR frames from the Santilli Autopsy film. Sanitlli, having been convinced of Sims and Leir's integrity gave it to them to have tested after they agreed to only send the test results back to Santilli. What's wrong with that picture? Thanks, Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Earth lights - Objections From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:27:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:51:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Earth lights - Objections >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Earth lights - Objections >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:52:46 -0700 >> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/11/97 9:03 PM: >> From: DRudiak@aol.com >> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:56:22 -0400 (EDT) >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Earth lights - Objections >> First, what are the energy requirements? For simplicity, let's assume 100% >I'm curious - does anyone know of a source for estimated weights from landing >traces? Hi Mark, You may want to poke a stick into Stan Freidman's cave and see if you get a rustle. <G> At one time Stan mentioned that there were several hundred or so ground trace evidence cases that he knew of, and that was several years ago that I heard that remark from him. The man may know if there's a lab or a researcher that you can approach for the data. (If it exists!) It may never have been catalogued collectively. Do I smell a book? It would be interesting to see all of the statistical data relating to 'tested' samples taken from "UFO" landing sites in one place or volume. If something like that already exists could someone please let me know as I'd be interested in giving it a peruse. Hope this helps, John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | mcashman |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Phoenix? From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:42:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:53:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix? >From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com >Date: Wednesday, 13 August 1997 3:30pm MT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO UpDate: Phoenix? >>Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:29:25 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Phoenix????? >>Hi Errol, hi All, >>I thought I'd 'cop' a page from Phillip Mantles' book and just post >>a request for info this time. <G> >>Does anybody have any further word (know of any) new developments in >>the Phoenix lights case? I hate it when things just drop from view >>like that. >Hi John, >The update on the Phoenix Lights (or should I say, Arizona Lights) >is the fact that with a review of eyewitness accounts that Michael >Tanner and I have concluded that there were at least 10 events that >occured on the night of March 13th. We have reviewed nearly 100 >reports to date. Hi Bill, First, thank you so much for the update. Bill, would it be possible for you to to get some information on the commercial pilot (mentioned on a copy of a channel 10 newscast that Tom King sent me) that reportedly had a close-up sighting that night (March 13) during a takeoff or landing and radioed the tower at Phoenix airport about it. This guys testimony could put a whole new slant on everything. It's important that an attempt is at least made to secure his testimony. The channel ten news may be a good source for info as they no doubt double checked their own sources. Hope you can take this on. Please keep the rest of us informed as to any progress or new developments in this case. I would like to see which side of the fence this one lands on. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Letters from Kent Jeffrey From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:52:39 -0400 Subject: Letters from Kent Jeffrey Greetings List, I hope to be able to save Dennis some of the trouble of scanning and OCR'ing the Murguia letter. In my snail mailbox today were copies of the letter sent to President Clinton (which Dennis so kindly posted already), Janet Murguia (this was a kind of cover letter, as the boxes of declarations were sent to her to process), and a statement from three of the gentlemen mentioned in Kent's Roswell article. All typographical errors should be considered to be made by my OCR software. ---------- July 8, 1997 Janet Murguia Deputy Assistant to the President for Legislative Affairs Office of Legislative Affairs, East Wing, Room 112 Washington, DC 20500 Dear Ms. Murguia, A congressional legislative assistant suggested that I send the enclosed letter to President Clinton, along with the approximately 20,000 signed declarations that accompany it, to your office. The declarations are a part of a mainstream, grassroots effort, the International Roswell Initiative, whose purpose is a general declassification of any information that the government might possess regarding the UFO phenomenon or extraterrestrial intelligence. The shipment accompanying this letter consists of seven boxes containing approximately 13,000 signed declarations. The remaining 7,000 or so declarations will be sent from locations in Texas and Illinois and should arrive within the next two weeks. Additionally, a significant number of signed declarations have been collected in Australia, England, France, and Germany, and may be turned into the U.S. embassies in those countries. Although I was the initiator of the International Roswell Initiative, because of new evidence in the case, I have now become one of the 1947 Roswell UFO incident's most outspoken skeptics. In the last couple of weeks, for example, I have debated the issue a number of times on radio and even national television. Over the last few years, Roswell has practically become an American icon. opinion polls show that close to two thirds of the American people don't believe the government's explanation of what happened. The controversy and media attention surrounding Roswell is therefore unlikely to go away anytime soon. Unfortunately, from a public relations standpoint, the government has handled Roswell, along with the UFO phenomenon in general, very poorly -- all but ignoring the issue. Such a cavalier approach, in combination with the public's intense interest in the subject, has exacerbated feelings of distrust and suspicion about government actions and motives. A positive and forthright response to this issue on the part of the President would probably be viewed and appreciated by most Americans as a refreshing change to the perceived (albeit, perhaps, unfairly) long-term policy of stonewalling and avoidance by the government. Any attention you or the President give to this matter will be greatly appreciated. The letter accompanying the declarations, along with any meaningful response from the President, will be published on numerous Internet sites and in UFO publications worldwide. Sincerely, [s] Kent Jeffrey Coordinator, International Roswell Initiative -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This statement did not accompany the petitions (at least not the ones I sent). June 27, 1997 Walter Klinikowski, Colonel, USAF, Retired Walter Vitunac, Colonel, USAF, Retired George Weinbrenner, Colonel, USAF, Retired In view of recent worldwide media attention and apparent public misconception concerning the 1947 Roswell incident, we have chosen to issue a joint statement in an effort to help set the record straight on this most controversial matter. We are taking this step strictly out of a sense of responsibility to the truth, and are doing so of our own volition, without any pressure or encouragement from the U.S. military or government. Over the past years, innumerable documentaries, books, television shows, and movies have conveyed the impression that the 1947 Roswell event is a matter of historical fact. Incredible-sounding but unsubstantiated claims by alleged witnesses and participants have further exacerbated the situation. Consequently, according to recent opinion polls, the majority of Americans now believe in the reality of an event that never occurred -- the crash of an alien spaceship northwest of Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947, and its subsequent recovery and transportation by the U.S. military to Wright Patterson Air Force Base near Dayton, Ohio. Wright Patterson is indeed where the Air Force's technical and intelligence experts were, and still are, concentrated. It is where the recovered wreckage from a foreign craft of any kind with the potential for invading our skys, including an alien spaceship, would be taken and kept for technical analysis. Contrary to the Roswell legend, however, no such craft was taken to and stored at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. If such an event had occurred, as ranking officials of the Foreign Technology Division (FTD) at Wright Patterson, we would have known about it. During our collective tenure there, which spanned a period of 1 7 years -- 1957 through 1974 -- there was no alien spaceship, and no secret hangar housing it -- of that we give our word. Going on record with such an unequivocal statement is not something we take lightly. As retired military officers, we would not dishonor ourselves, our military careers, our families, or our country by lying to the American people, especially about an issue of such great potential significance. Any doubters should note that if an alien spaceship were actually being kept at Wright Patterson Air Force Base by the U.S. government, the administration in power could choose to declassify the matter at any time. With that uncertainty, publicly lying about such an issue, on top of all else, would be pure folly. As is surely the opinion of the vast majority of Americans, both civilian and military, we are in total agreement that anything as important and profound as knowledge of other intelligent life in the universe would be information that should not be suppressed or censored by any government. It would be information to which all humanity should be entitled. [s] Walter Klinikowski, FTD 1960-74, Deputy Director of Intelligence Collections, Director of Foreign Activities [s] Walter Vitunac, ATIC (Air Technical Intelligence Center) and FTD 1957-62, AFSC (Air Force Systems Command) 1965-68, Director of Intelligence Collections, Director of Foreign Technology Programs, Director of Foreign Activities [s] George Weinbrenner, FTD 1968-74, Commander of the Foreign Technology Division
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Question for Rebecca From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Aug 97 10:56:15 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:17:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Rebecca >From: DianaOmega@aol.com [Dianne Cameron] >Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:45:25 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Rebecca Dianne, Yes, everyone who signed the Roswell Iniative has been betrayed, and the goals of the initiative trivialized. I consider this more than just something KJ should be ashamed of. It is a crime against humanity. KJ has killed any chance of the Roswell Initiative accomplishing anything, and has single-handedly made it very unlikely that any such future initiative has a snowball's hope in hell of ever being a success. I hope everyone who was jumping on me for calling KJ the "Benedict Arnold" of UFOlogy will read this astonishing letter and rethink their position on KJ. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Phoenix? From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Friday, 15 August 1997 8:23am MT Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:32:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix? >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:07:10 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Re: Phoenix? >Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:42:18 +0200 >From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix? >From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com >Date: Wednesday, 13 August 1997 3:30pm MT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO UpDate: Phoenix? and >>Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:29:25 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >>Subject: Phoenix????? >I fail to see how the range of cases as reported by the >esteemed (in my mind) Bill Hamilton can be construed by >authorities as being military flares. I've also seen my share of >flares, both airdrop and artillery/mortar versions, and by god, none >of them EVER looked like one of the above descriptions. One more thing Jakes and John--> We split up a team last night. There was to be a flare drop on the test range. Actually, there has been every night all week. We asked our original witness to check each night from where we saw the original lights. He saw nothing yet. Last night I posted myself at near the original location with a clear view of the Estrellas. Still no flares. Tom King and others went down to the test range to take extensive footage of the flares for comparison as well as telescopic photos. Triangulation shows that what we all videotaped was over the Estrella Mountains far to the north of the test range. What we saw in those mountains on March 13th has not reappeared even during subsequent flare drops. Once this flare issue is put to rest, we need to look at the rest of the sightings in a little more detail. I finally have the drawing sketched by Bill Greiner, the truck driver, who claims he saw the F-16s dispatched from Luke AFB converging on one of two unusual objects. The closer object looked like a giant orange egg with a pulsing red ring engirdling it. When the jet closed on the object, it took off vertically and rapidly. Let us say for the moment that we have an experimental egg-shaped object that can hover and also propel itself straight up at tremendous velocity. We can work our way through a number of hypotheses, but would have to conclude that it would be a strange design and a leap in our technology to overcome gravity. This would be an excellent way to boost something into the high atmosphere (or orbit) to study the earth. No jets, no rockets, no hot air! Nice replacement for the space shuttle. Or...is there at least a chance that some intelligences not of this earth could make such a vehicle as this and the Big-V to check out the huge growth going on in the Valley of the Sun... Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Search for other documents from or mentioning: william.hamilton |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 WIN TEN MILLION DOLLARS: Prove aliens visited the From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:06:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:18:45 -0400 Subject: WIN TEN MILLION DOLLARS: Prove aliens visited the Hi, I heard this on the radio yesterday. QFM96, a radio station in Columbus, Ohio, has an offer you might be interested in: WIN TEN MILLION DOLLARS: Prove aliens visited the United States. Bring extraterrestial remnants of an actual alien or alien craft to the station during business hours before August 20th and claim $10,000,000.00! Official rules available at Q FM 96 Studios during business hours, M-F 8:30am-5:30pm. WLVQ-FM 96 1301 Dublin Rd, Columbus OH Business office: 614-488-9696 Email contact: wlvq@cis.compuserve.com http://www.qfm96.com/home.html Go for it! Pat [[[[[[[[[[[[ UNUSUAL RESEARCH ]]]]]]]]]]]]] http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: I spy From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark] Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:38:49 PDT Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:49:34 -0400 Subject: Re: I spy > From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] > Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:35:28 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: I spy > >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:09:50 -0500 (CDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> > >Subject: I spy > >But what if UFOs _don't_ turn up on a regular basis, or a picture from a > >civilian satellite taken at the same time and locale as a reported UFO fails > >to reveal anything of a corroborative nature? Ah, government cover up, even > >though these aren't government satellites, and any country that can afford > >to put one up will be able to do so. It may be time to bring Corso out of > >retirement. > Well, Dennis, that's certainly what we'll hear if UFOs don't turn up on the > imagery. But there is another possibility, my semi-serious working notion > that the saucer-nauts were here and have left, long since. > They hung around the solar system for about 20 years (ca. 1945 - ca. 1965), > studying us closely. Occasionally a couple of grad students got drunk and > buzzed the natives, and once in a while an over-eager scientist, ignoring the > "prime directive," bagged and studied a couple of specimens (e.g., Barney and > Betty Hill; remember the argument between "leader" and crew over letting > Betty keep that book). Then they packed up (being careful to police up their > candy wrappers, etc.) and moved on... Karl, Dennis, and everybody, KTP's theory, even with his qualification of it as "semi- serious," is bizarre enough that one is led to suspect it is less than that -- maybe, one infers, a tongue-in-cheek tweaking of ufology. No evidence of any kind supports the proposition that "real" UFOs disappeared after the mid-1960s. In fact, some of the most impressive and evidential cases took place in the years afterwards. Could it be that Karl's seemingly ardent belief in Mogul balloonacy is the same kind of "semi-serious" tweaking? I've long suspected as much, but only the Sage of Placitas knows for sure. Jerry Clark Search for other documents from or mentioning: clark | ktperehwon |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Earth lights - Ground Traces From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:16:57 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:51:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Earth lights - Ground Traces > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:27:16 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Earth lights - Objections > >I'm curious - does anyone know of a source for estimated weights from > >landing traces? > You may want to poke a stick into Stan Freidman's cave and see if you get a > rustle. <G> At one time Stan mentioned that there were several hundred > or so ground trace evidence cases that he knew of, and that was several > years ago that I heard that remark from him. The man may know if there's a > lab or a researcher that you can approach for the data. (If it exists!) > It may never have been catalogued collectively. Do I smell a book? Yes, John, because longtime researchers know about Ted Phillips' work on trace cases. At last count, Ted had about 4000 or 5000 such cases in his database. His Catalog of trace cases was published by CUFOS long ago. Paul Fuller (dare I mention his name w.r.t. Earth Lights?) has a copy and went through Ted's catalog looking for various correlations with UGMs and wrote about his findings in various publications. > It would be interesting to see all of the statistical data relating to > 'tested' samples taken from "UFO" landing sites in one place or volume. > If something like that already exists could someone please let me know > as I'd be interested in giving it a peruse. No, there hasn't been such an authoritative volume. The trouble would be, I think, that each case was handled by different investigators with different methodology and beliefs and approaches. And, each lab was different, with different tests and so forth. One could not extrapolate or draw conclusions from such data, unfortunately. That's *assuming(, of course, that the various ufologists would actually share their data like that. :) It would seem that Ted would be in the best position to write such a book. Since he's slowly getting back into ufology, maybe someone should give him a nudge. ;) -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows | jvif |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Phoenix? From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:38:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:32:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix? >Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:42:18 +0200 >From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Phoenix? >I fail to see how the range of cases as reported by the >esteemed (in my mind) Bill Hamilton can be construed by >authorities as being military flares. I've also seen my share of >flares, both airdrop and artillery/mortar versions, and by god, none >of them EVER looked like one of the above descriptions. Because it sounds like a bogus explanation, we can't simply reject the "flare" explanation out of hand. However, they certainly couldn't explain the "V" formation flying over someone's house. As Bill points out, we are dealing with a number of sightings, and they may have different causes. It is possible that some of the videos and sightings could be explained by the "flares" as described, but to believe that all of the reports were caused by this single event would be naive (IMHO). >What happened to the concept of chasing these objects by way >of civilian aircraft? I remember this being proposed at one stage. >Yes, I know we have to wait for the next occurrence, but are the >planes and pilots ready? Before one begins chasing unknowns, it would be wise to research the issue very carefully. A number of military pilots attempted to catch UFOs during the late 40's and early 50's and some (such as Mantell) died as a result. >I assume (I forget if it was mentioned in one of Bill's original >reports) that we have passive Infra Red camera and viewing >equipment deployed? What about a multi-frequency scanner >from Radio Shack, for instance? (I assume we are scanning >for cross-frequency emmissions of EMR, from visible up to >microwave?). There must be somebody in the area that >can source and operate some, if not all, of the required >technology. Good suggestion, but you'll needs something more powerfull than a radio scanner from Radio Shack. They have preset frequencies that are scanned, and it only covers a limited portion of the EM spectrum. There are devices available that will scan the entire spectrum for testing purposes, but they're expensive.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Unheeded, But Important Evidence Concerning The From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:52:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:00:12 -0400 Subject: Unheeded, But Important Evidence Concerning The Many of you may feel that every stone has been turned concerning the Roswell incident, and it is true that the research into other cases has suffered due to the focusing on that one, but as this unheeded, yet revealing evidence from Paul Harden shows, new and important facts can still be dug out. Harden had worked on the VLA (Very Large Array) radio telescope (the world's largest) near Socorro, New Mexico, for 18 years when he wrote the e-mail back in 1995, concerning the second crash site on the plains of San Agustin and southwest of Socorro, New Mexico. As many of you know, Stan Friedman has been the main proponent of this other crash - connected to the first one near Roswell (e. g. Friedman, Berliner: Crash At Corona, Marlowe & Company, New York, 1997, p. 88ff.) - but has won few followers mostly due to the collapse of the credibility of one of his main witnesses, Gerald Anderson. The verdict seems rather harsh and unfair, however, if you take an unbiased look at the documents of the case, and Harden's testimony supports that conclusion. Friedman mentions one of Harden's witnesses, Martin Ake, in "Crash At Corona" p. 88: "An old time rancher on the Plains, the late Marvin Ake, told Stanton Friedman that he had heard of a crashed saucer story "out on the Plains.". But concerning Harden's first-hand witnesses, neither the Brutons' direct involvement with the crash, nor the radar witnesses, nor the two students who "now work at the New Mexico Tech campus as professors" are mentioned in Friedman's and Berliner's book. I have attached a couple of URL's for those who would like to certify Harden's identity and know about his character, all concerning his favourite hobby, QRP. But as most of you have no idea what QRP is, I'll give this short definition from the site of NWQRP, the NorthWest QRP Club: http://www.scn.org/IP/nwqrp/qrp.html "QRP is a "Q-signal". These abbreviations were created in the early days of amateur radio. QRP originally meant "Please reduce your power," but has gained the more specific definition of "radio communication using 5 watts output or less" in recent years. Amateur radio operators have a long tradition of cooperation with federal and local authorities to provide emergency communications, new technological developments, and community education for the world. QRPers specialize in the advancement of the art of low power operating, including the development of energy-conserving equipment and portable antenna systems. Every day, we talk to the world with only a few watts." Here are the URL's: The first is a newsletter from SARA, the Socorro Amateur Radio Association, mentioning him and his e-mail address (which has changed by the way, see below): http://griffy.nmt.edu/sara/sara/news9603.html The second concerns "The Electronic Data Book for Homebrewers and QRPers", a very popular book he wrote on the building of a receiver. See http://www.businesson.com/hamparts/edb.htm The third is an article he wrote for NORCAL, the Northern California QRP Club, about the second West Coast QRP Symposium. See http://www.fix.net/~jparker/pcnrpt.html His e-mail on the Socorro Crash can be found on the site of VJ Enterprises, more specifically at http://www.execpc.com/vjentpr/roswcras.html I want to emphasize, though, that nothing connects him to this New Age organization at all. Unfortunately VJ Enterprises mention neither him nor where the e-mail was found. Last, but not least, the e-mail address given in the newsletter from SARA is pharden@aoc.nrao.edu and newer than the one given below: pharden@newshost.aoc.nrao.edu but this one might still work. ******* Second New Mexico Crash By Paul Harden - to G. Cotsonas George P. Cotsonas Internet email: geopi@hocpa.att.com Wireless Terminals Laboratory Telephone: (908) 834-1046 From: pharden@newshost.aoc.nrao.edu (Paul Harden) Subject: Re: Second NM Crash Info Date: 20 Apr 1995 16:14:43 -0600 From: fmm1@cornell.edu (Fred Muratori) In article , din23@aol.com (DIN23) wrote: (snip) >> interference. Anyway the second crash happened in an area >>west of Socorro, New Mexico, known as the Plains of San >>Agustin, where witnesses discovered not only a damaged >>metallic "aircraft" resting on the flat desert ground, but also dead >>bodies. The first witness on the scene was Grady L. "Barney" >>Barnett, a civil engineer with the U.S. Soil Conservation Service >>who was on a military assignment at the time. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ N O T >From: fmm1@cornell.edu (Fred Muratori) wrote: >Take a look at _The truth about the UFO crash at Roswell_ by >Kevin D. Randle and Don Schmitt (Evans, 1994), which devotes a >chapter >to this case. Randle investigated the San Agustin scenario pretty >thoroughly and found many, many inconsistencies and no >corroborating witnesses. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ N O T N O T The VLA observatory now sits on the Plains of San Agustin amongst several ranches. I have worked there 18 years and have been shown the spot where the craft supposedly crashed by two different ranchers. The site itself is on the Bruton Ranch near the VLA's south-west arm. I am not aware of any involvement by Barnett with the military ... he and some students were several miles south of the crash site excavating the newly found "Bat Cave" for folsom period Indian artifacts. A couple of those students now work at the New Mexico Tech campus as professors, one at the Bureau of Mines. Barnett and his students were unable to find the crash site as it was after sunset when this occured and getting dark. However, it was heard by the Brutons and they went and investigated and found the crash site. To this day, they insist there were no bodies, only a heap of twisted metal. He did not know what it was, but felt it was a "piece of an airplane." The next morning the Army arrived at the Bruton Ranch with several trucks. The Brutons were escorted from their ranch and placed in a motel room in Socorro for several days with little explanation. They willing submitted as WW-II had only been over for a short while and assisting "the war effort" was a common attitude. It was mid-morning when Barnett and his students found the crash scene -- being cleaned up by the military. To his dying day (only a few years ago), he consistently refused to comment on what he had seen. Another nearby rancher, Marvin Ake, also saw the military on the Bruton Ranch removing two truck loads of debris. Jack Bruton, Jr. was 5 yrs old and remembers his stay in the Socorro motel because it was the first time he had been taken to a movie and went swimming at the motel pool. (The motel was moved in 1960's when they built the interstate; it was owned by the Hefners who moved several of the motel units behind their house, where they still stand. The original owners still have the desk register which I have seen). The El Camino Restaurant now stands at this motel site. Several miles to the north of the Bruton Ranch WAS a small radar tracking site for far-field tracking of missiles from White Sands. When all of this happened, an impressive thunderstorm was brewing. A couple of soldiers manning the radar facility were sitting outside the radar trailer watching the lightning and saw the "object" fall from the sky and land behind the Bruton Ranch. This is how the Army was so quickly informed. I worked with a guy (now retired) who was manning another remote radar site and he recounted several times the radio communications that took place as these soldiers described what they saw. There are still two men working at the observatory who used to be radar techs at White Sands. This story is well known and oft repeated by those who work at the Stallion Range at White Sands. (BTW, the location of this portable radar station is just north of U.S. 60 about 6 miles east of the VLA turnoff. There is a big gravel pit used by the Hiway Department there now. Ask any of the old timers around here about it. No big deal, everybody knew about it ... it was right on the highway for everyone to see!) It is an intriguing story to me and personally I am confused as to whether or not it was related to the Corona Crash (Roswell crash for you out-of-staters). Or, whether in fact a UFO. But the above information is fairly well known around here, some of it documented, and many living witnesses. The story is also remarkably consistent, regardless of who you talk to. Therefore, the statement that there has NEVER been any corroborating witnesses is totally false. Or that there are many, many inconsistencies. I have provided names and places herein for you to verify or dispute on your own. Also, unlike many of you, I am NOT using an annonymous mailer. Did these Randle and Schmidt guys even so much as bother to have a cup of coffee in Socorro and ask anyone about this? Or just wanna write a UFO book to sell to suckers? I can tell you more. But what I can't tell you is whether or not it was a UFO that the Army removed from the Bruton Ranch in 1947. Paul Designed for the exclusive use of VJ Enterprises =A9 1997 ******* Best regards Stig Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | pharden
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 UFO trace weights/other effects - was Earth lights From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:44:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:17:23 -0400 Subject: UFO trace weights/other effects - was Earth lights > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/15/97 9:27 AM: > Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:10:07 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Earth lights - Objections > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > > Subject: re: UFO UpDate: Re: Earth lights - Objections > > Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:52:46 -0700 > > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/11/97 9:03 > PM: > > > From: DRudiak@aol.com > > > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:56:22 -0400 (EDT) > > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Earth lights - Objections > I wonder if we might not be a little more careful on how far we carry > a thread...for instance this one. It is 'Subject'-ed as Earthlights and > yet the text is about anything but. I only mention this because I'm > sure others do the same as I when skimming their latest mail, they > delete some material out of hand going only by the subject heading > particularly if the heading has been going for some time. > The meat of this current discussion below re the trace weights of a > suspected UFO is of great interest to me while the subject of > earthlights is not. I rejected that angle as an explanation for most > UFO sightings many years ago. I am not so pragmatic as to discount > them entirely but as far as I am concerned they are a poor explanation > for anything in this field. > I bring this to your attention lest I and others inadvertantly delete > what could have been an extremely interesting piece of information > under the wrong subject heading in our haste to get to the meat off > the matters that interest us deeply. > And for Mark who obviously has not experienced the joys of the metric > system yet [but you probably will..sooner than you think <G>] one > kilogram is pretty close to 2.2 lbs. > Don Ledger You're right, Don - liters, now, aren't those what mama dogs have when pregnancy ends? :-) I hope someone will provide some info on the subject of trace weights, which is also of great interest to me. I tried finding info via searching the web on forensics, but all of the forensics stuff seems to be no more than citations - I have as yet found no substantial info on the web. Nonetheless, I think working with, or even just discussing trace evidence with forensic scientists might be a good idea for UFOlogists. FYI, I also just purchased a copy of Physics and Radiology in Nuclear Medicine, which promises to contain information of interest to those of us who are looking for more information on medical effects. I'll post a summary here after I get through it, and add whatever seems relevant to the eye and skin irritation paper at my website. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: mcashman | dledger |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Rebecca Rants From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:06:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:21:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:26:36 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Rebecca Rants Rebecca writes, >Greetings all, >More and more, I've been hearing how bad the ufological community is about >attacking their own. Most recently (August 14), I listenend to an >>interview of Roger Leir on Jeff Rense's "Sightings on the Radio" program, >>where he whined about the people in ufology attacking their [Sims and >>Leir] claims. I was having some problems staying connected to the server, >>so I'll need to listen to the program again, once it's archived but the >>message seemed to be that we should not criticize others in this field. >>BTW, you can listen to this most fascinating program at >http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/archive.stm. >It's the third hour of the program in which Leir is interviewed. >My questions are: >Is it wrong of ufologists to point out flaws in other ufologists >arguments/statements? Not in the least. I see 'all disciplines' as self-regulating self-correcting entities to a great degree. The beauty of a self correcting/regulating system is, 'self-correction/regulation!' >Is this somehow worse than say, the general public or even CSICOP doing >it? Nope again. Although sometimes your enemies are your best friends, know what I mean? <G> (For those who don't,...your enemies will point out your weaknesses for you in a NY minute which then allows you to initiate mid-course corrections and strengthen them! Your 'friends' won't do that for you.) >Should we just let anyone in this field make any kind of claim and support >them, no matter what? BS is BS wherever you find it. It should be identified and eliminated in as many "fields" as we can. We'd all be better off with less BS to wade thru. >I really would like some feedback on this. Your the one that's down there in 'Baptist' country, "Ask and ye shall recieve" sister.<G> >BTW, Leir claims now to be in possession of FOUR frames from the Santilli >Autopsy film. Sanitlli, having been convinced of Sims and Leir's integrity >gave it to them to have tested after they agreed to only send the test >results back to Santilli. >What's wrong with that picture? Two words, BIGELOW MONEY!!! Bigelow is an informational 'Black Hole' and from what I understand is the money behind NIDS. Something is really rotten in Denmark kiddies! Sims and Lier are probably/most likely just front men/agents for Bigelows' interests. The curiosity about the AA film probably stems from him or else his flunkys wouldn't be playing, "Let's Make A Deal" with frames of it. Let's face it, Sims and Lier just don't have the muscle or the grease to pull something like that off. Santilli must have gotten beacoups bucks for those two frames or he would never have given them up. Santilli by his own admission is a "Business man first." Bigelow is the _only_one_ who could have bankrolled it. So, let's eliminate refering to his flunkys, (Sims/Lier) and put the blame where it rightfully belongs. Mr Bigelow. Here in NY the only ones that operate like that (through agents/frontmen) are crack dealers, pimps, and the Wall Street Highrollers. <EG> BTW, I think the post by the Israeli doctor was 'right on.' It also sounds like we have some place to send alleged implants to where they will be given an _honest_ and expert clinical analysis. The doctor implied in his message that he could get collegues involved in the testing. Hmmmm! Thanks for the 'rant' opportunity Rebecca! <G> John Velez, John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Rebecca Rants From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:09:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:24:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/15/97 10:42 AM: > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:26:36 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Rebecca Rants > Greetings all, > More and more, I've been hearing how bad the ufological community is about > attacking their own... > My questions are: > Is it wrong of ufologists to point out flaws in other ufologists > arguments/statements? No. In the normal course of science, it is not unusual for such debates to occur. However, in science, the debates usually do not reach the level of acrimony and outright ad hominem attack that they do in UFOlogy. Why? Because most science has experiment and direct observation to fall back on. When someone makes a claim, those who evaluate it negatively have proof to show. Unfortunately, that is much more difficult in UFOlogy, because such evidence is much more rarely available. Also, UFOlogy is more expansive in terms of variation in what is considered evidence, speculation, theory, and fact, so there is much more room for argument. And, sadly, there are numerous outright charlatans and mystics in the field, and in those cases, the very subject of proof is usually anathema. Nonetheless, part of the problem also stems from what people are choosing to debate. If we are choosing to debate mechanisms for ionizing the atmosphere in proximity of the UFO, we can bring in various well-proven realities from physics. If we choose to debate abductions, we should be talking about PTSS (Post- Traumatic Stress Syndrome) and false-memory syndrome, and the nature of physical evidence in these cases - but we are often reduced to the debating the credibility of witnesses, because their claims are controversial, noise-laden, and in some cases, purely made up. Deciding on a solid core of evidence can help. For instance, there are some abduction cases in Hopkins books which clearly are either solid or completely delusional, and there are others where it is debatable whether any experience occurred at all (and even the witnesses are skeptical). Even the Hill case is regularly called into question for various reasons. So abductions are hard to discuss without anger or frustration. However, consciously recalled abductions are certainly much more difficult to dismiss than hypnotic cases, so those who want to stay on the most solid and quiet ground need to focus their debate on those cases. Close encounter and trace sightings are much easier to discuss and debate, because we have real evidence. So we can stay further away from personalities and more on the facts. > Is this somehow worse than say, the general public or even CSICOP doing it? It's hard to strike a balance between eating your own over a minor difference of opinion and pushing the charlatans out into something more appropriate like psychic friend networks. In some cases, in my view, we have, short-sightedly, eaten our own. Kent Jeffrey is one example, and Motzer is another. I don't necessarily agree with either of their viewpoints (in fact I just finished a critical analysis of Jeffrey's article for our local MUFON newsletter), but they present their evidence and their viewpoints and certainly the focus should be on examining the evidence and the reasoning, not on the individuals involved. > Should we just let anyone in this field make any kind of claim and support > them, no matter what? Definitely not. If UFOlogy is ever to grow up, we are going to need to develop a core of supportable data and theoretical infrastructure which we can all largely agree marks a starting point. Certainly the work of Paul Hill, Olavo Fontes, Plantier, or Vallee's more concrete work on energy levels and medical traces represent the kind of thing which I think should be in that core. As long as "anything goes" and any kind of speculation is acceptable, evidence or no, and as long as any kind of vague correlation is accepted and not rejected, we will continue to live in the gutter of science. The holy grail is clearly unlikely to fall from the sky, the occupants are unlikely to stop by and drop off the "Beamship Operators Manual", and the government establishment is unlikely to announce that UFOs are real. So we need to focus on what we can actually determine. > I really would like some feedback on this. ... > Thanks, > Rebecca Thanks for raising the issue. It's important. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Earth lights - Ground Traces From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:33:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:25:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Earth lights - Ground Traces > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/15/97 12:51 PM: > From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Earth lights - Ground Traces > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:16:57 -0500 (CDT) ... > Yes, John, because longtime researchers know about Ted Phillips' work > on trace cases. At last count, Ted had about 4000 or 5000 such cases in > his database. His Catalog of trace cases was published by CUFOS long > ago. Paul Fuller (dare I mention his name w.r.t. Earth Lights?) has a > copy and went through Ted's catalog looking for various correlations > with UGMs and wrote about his findings in various publications. Quite right about Phillips. I don't know why, but I thought it was Bloecher. > It would seem that Ted would be in the best position to write such a > book. Since he's slowly getting back into ufology, maybe someone should > give him a nudge. ;) I'd offer my vote on that. Heck, I'd buy a copy in advance. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art and writing mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:26:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:20:28 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 > From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com > Date: Thu, 14 Aug 97 18:52:43 cst > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 > >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:05:51 -0400 > >From: Theresa 110213.3274@compuserve.com> > >Subject: Copy of: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; > August 5 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> <Snippety do dah...> > I have no financial interest in the AA affair one way or another. > The AA video proponents most definitely have a financial stake in > preserving the belief among as large a market as possible that the > AA video is real. That's marketing. > If the AA video were revealed as a hoax I suspect that Santilli's > sales would fall dramatically. Under these conditions, who would you > normally assume to be more objective -- the salesmen or the skeptic? > Regards, > Vince Oh Vince, I am sooo grateful (hug, squeeze, kiss, kiss) that you have so graciously taken a significant portion of your valuable time to save me (a humble hayseed) from the nefarious hucksterism of the venal capitalist Santilli and his henchmen. Oh, all right, I reluctantly apologize for the dripping sarcasm. And here, I am about to run off with some sermonizing of my own. Ah, the naysayers. Those strident detractors of any unorthodox issues currently in public favor. With their dialogue bereft of original thought or points, they steal the shallow counterpoints of others and wrapping this thin relevant skeleton with porcine fleshy layers of ridicule, insult, and abuse, they assail those more willing to consider the strange, the unorthodox, the improbable. If Spiro Agnew could realize the immense power that worldwide communications has given to the "nattering nabobs of negativism," he might suffer resurrection singed with conversion to liberalism. Wait, perhaps I am succumbing to Agnewism. This immense investment in the naysayers messianic self image and ego projection must surely match the financial interest of some entrepreneurs. They constantly return with their abundance of derision countered by their lack of new information. What contribution have the naysayers given us that furthers our understanding of the reality or non reality of this ET issue? Naysayers are not the common doubter, skeptic, or bearer of mundane explanations. They betray themselves first by the virulence of personal attack in their messages and second by the impregnable position they take on their issues. They come forward only to proselytize and bring us salvation. They suffer a need to monopolize our time and our efforts. They are intoxicated by our attention. (Now, back to my sermon.) Don't give it to them. If you begin to see a dishonest message, don't reply. Don't feed their ego habit. If you feel compelled to answer, use a short reply to tell them they are being unfair or dishonest without lengthy explanation. The naysayers pathology demands the sustenance of a continuing dialogue. Without it, they slink off to another forum. Okay, okay. So, I am being selfish. I am trying to impose my need for a more declarative, congenial, informative dailogue here. I am sorry. I can't help myself... Bye... Ted.. Search for other documents from or mentioning: drtedv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 DISPATCH #64 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:40:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:46:47 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #64 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #64 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 8/16/97 Quote of the Week "At a recent meeting of the Extremely Wealthy and Successful Celebrities Club (the EWSCC to those important enough to belong), the topic was the media and what could be done other than having them all stripped of their skin while we throw salt and Tabasco. The answer: We interview ourselves.'' --Mel Gibson, actor and star of the top box office film "Conspiracy Theory," in an article for "US" magazine in which he interviewed himself. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "They Are Our God" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Catherine" takes a mental laxative and cuts loose with a free-form diatribe on "them" and challenges us to share the truth with you, our unsuspecting readers. Enjoy! "You explain everything scientificly but how comes each time the government explains the same story diferntly if they were on trail they would go to jail and nothing can change my mind i will always think the way i want to and i will always think they created us and rule us helped us and are coming back and that they are our god and that the garden of eden is the way they did not want us to research and find out were we came from and please print that in newsletters web pages or anthing else you have that the public will see and when or if you do please let me know through e-mail i know you probaly won't print it since you are afriad to let the people know the truth about the government i don't know why the government doesn't tell us we have a right to know." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Putting It to A Vote Were we joking last week when we said Mark Fuhrman might be an interesting choice for a ParaScope columnist? Maybe, or maybe not. We're not saying. But you can right now by taking the live, interactive ParaPoll. Look for the poll buttons on the main screens of our AOL and web sites and vote now through midnight ET Sunday and tell us if you think you'd like to see Mark Fuhrman writing for ParaScope. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Hot Talk on the Grassy Knoll You'll find regularly scheduled, hosted chat sessions every night (and most of every day) on our AOL site at the Grassy Knoll chat room. Lauded as one of the top chat rooms on AOL, the Grassy Knoll is the place to go to share your views live with others on everything from conspiracies to UFOs to the paranormal and beyond. Also, join us at our web site every Saturday night at 9pm ET for the latest gossip, chat, rumor, innuendo and fun. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Win a Trip to the X-Files Set or a 266-Mhz Dell Computer! Allow us to remind you once again of two terrific contests we're pleased to bring you in conjunction with our sponsors. You and a friend could be the lucky winners who get to visit the Vancouver, British Columbia set of the X-Files! Or, you might win a brand new 266-Mhz Dell computer with Pentium II MMX processor and all the latest accessories. Check for the banners on our main screens for details, and good luck! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! The dog days are upon us, folks, and the staff of ParaScope has headed north, south, east and west to bring you this special summer vacation edition. Yellowstone? Been there. Disneyworld? Done that. The fringe of reality? Now we're getting somewhere. Check out a hot crop of great ParaScope stories in the spotlight right now, and then catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Conspiracy Newsline If you're not paranoid yet, you need to pay closer attention. What kind of shady backroom deals was Ron Brown engaged in before his death? Does a California marijuana legalization activist stand a chance in the Republican gubernatorial primaries? What was Apple co-founder Steve Jobs thinking when he announced his unholy alliance with the Beast of biblical prophecy, also known as Bill Gates? Is the United Nations robbing American citizens of money, freedom, sovereignty and political self-determination? It's all in the Newsline, updated daily! -------------------------------------- UFOs Vs. The Peacock Throne: The Story of the Teheran "Dogfight" The vast majority of UFO reports lack any significant evidentiary value. But sometimes our nocturnal wanderers are not so easily identified. One of the most impressive UFO cases on record occurred on the night of September 18 and 19, 1976, over Teheran, Iran, where Iranian fighter jets intercepted an unidentified flying object. Did the "Teheran Dogfight" bring the Iranian military face-to-face with extraterrestrials? Or was it actually some sort of covert operation? ------------------------------------- Did the Government Lie to the Public About UFOs? New Revelations In a CIA-published Study During the heated international imbroglio that was the Cold War, the government lied to the public about hundreds of UFO sightings. Says who? A historian from the U.S. intelligence community, that's who. A newly published article in the CIA journal "Studies In Intelligence" explains how the government misled the public about top secret spy plane flights often confused with alien craft. And that's just one of the revelations in this fascinating and controversial study. Dossier editor Jon Elliston surveys, assesses, and presents the latest, greatest government UFO report. ------------------------------------- Fortean Slips: Meet the Paranormal Presidents! Hail to the Chiefs! Fortean Slips inaugurates an executive edition packed with paranormal presidents and world-leader weirdness! JFK's Blue Hawaii: Dive into the dark conspiracy surrounding a Maui rock formation that looks like Kennedy's head. Dead Commies A-Go-Go: Grab your Red Book and tag along on the rollicking modern-day adventures of the mummified corpses of Lenin and Chairman Mao. Memoirs of a French Horoscope: Learn the startling revelations of Francois Mitterand's astrologer. Clinton Touchy on "Contact": Why doesn't President Bubba like being digitally Gumpized in the big summer blockbuster? Slipsmeister D. Trull has so much presidential weirdness it'll make you want to throw up in the Japanese Prime Minister's lap! ------------------------------------- Salute to William S. Burroughs 1914-1997 When William S. Burroughs died recently at age 83, the media could have hardly taken less notice of the passing of one of America's greatest writers and one of the most influential cultural and intellectual figures of the 20th century. The mainstream had little use for Burroughs, a lifelong heroin junky whose writings tore at the very fabric of perceived reality. Burroughs' influence on art, literature and music, though rarely acknowledged outside the fringe, nonetheless has made him a permanent fixture in the psychic landscape of America. ParaScope presents a salute to the man who gave James Joyce a run for his money, including a guide to Burroughs texts available on the Internet. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Lil to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:41:01 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:50:13 -0400 Subject: Re: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy >Date: 14 Aug 97 09:26:04 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy >>Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:08:57 +0200 (MET DST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy >Henny, >You are a genius, sir! Wonderful analogy and highly imaginative. >Remember the old Indian proverb about the blind men and the elephant?? >Bob Thanks, Bob The reason I posted this - for those who didn't get the message - was that no matter how much the statements from witnesses to some event might differ, that doesn't say ANYTHING about the credibility of a case or the witnesses. This is true for any kind of occurence that is witnessed by more than one person and is certainly not unique to the UFO field. Now that doesn't prove anything about Roswell. But I noticed that more than a few contributors to this list assume that just because witness reports vary in this case, the case is flawed. Sorry, folks, that's not how the world works. I have a feeling that the commentators who assume that all witness reports must corroberate each other word for word, don't have much experience with investigating anything and certainly not with interviewing people. Try to interview three people about a matter and you get three different answers. Interview three people about a sensitive matter and you get three very different answers. In a case such as Roswell where hundreds of people have been interviewed by dozens of investigators, variation is rampant. Add to that all kinds of uninformed assumptions about the behavior of the US military and about what kind of military report is relevant or not, and you get a total mess. Add to that the nonsensical assumption that people are lying constantly about all kinds of things - that includes witnesses as well as the US Air Force! - and you get a stinking rotten quagmire inhabited by lizards and rattle snakes while a few wide eyed staring cuckoos are singing 'cuckoo - cuckoo - cuckoo' until the sun goes under. Maybe it's better to let the Roswell case rest in peace for some time now. I personally think attention of the UFO field should move on to things like the artefacts in the possession of Dr. Vernon Clark and Linda Moulton and to people like Col. Corso. The artefacts are hard evidence and you won't get people with a better reputation than Corso for a while. Sadly, Corso has already been tainted by the non-affair of the foreword from Sen. Thurmond and the passage in his book that says that Maj. Marcel was at the Roswell crash scene. JHC, people! If I didn't live on the other side of the Atlantic I would have phoned Corso months ago about this book and let him explain all the seemingly incredible ingredients in his book. Maybe William J. Birnes, who wrote the book, was under time pressure and used some assumptions of his own in the book. Maybe Corso was on vacation and couldn't be reached in time and Birnes decided to finish the book anyway before the deadline because the publisher insisted on publishing it before the Roswell festivities. Who knows? Corso has already explained that it was Birnes who didn't include a lot of documentation because Birnes, as a ghost writer with an audience in mind, gave priority to the story itself. Not because of greed, but because it is his job. Of course, people who think that the trivialities and miscommunications of the real world don't apply to the UFO field, and that professional people don't have to eat when they write about UFOs, have already dismissed the book as a hoax. Corso himself has already been accused of concocting the 'scam' just to sell 80,000 books. As if Corso has remotely viewed the success of his book. As if he doesn't have a pension. As if this 82 year old man with totally impeccable credentials and only a few years left to live has suddenly undergone a major character change that only 13 year old adolescents can undergo. As if military oaths don't exist, etc. etc. etc. Consider for a change that the Pentagon is totally silent about the book, even after the interviews on the national tv networks that Corso did. Consider that his story does corroberate the findings of Linda Moulton Howe and Dr. Vernon Clark about an alien material that allegedly comes from Roswell. (Where is Linda anyway?) As far as I'm concerned the truth is out, unless proven otherwise, but some people in the UFO field simply don't realise it. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Blanchard and LeMay From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:42:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Blanchard and LeMay JAMES & GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:06:52 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Blanchard and LeMay >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Karl, >I had tried to find a copy of LeMay's autobiography, without success. >I was interested to know if he mentioned the subject of UFOs at all. >In "Aliens from Space", Major Donald E. Keyhoe notes: >In 1965, General LeMay discussed UFOs with Pulitzer Prize writer >MacKinlay Kantor, with whom he co-authored "Mission With LeMay. My >Story". In contradiction to the AF claims, the general stated there >were unsolved sightings by scientists, pilots and other responsible >observers. >"There were some cases we could not explain," LeMay emphasized. >"Repeat again. Never could". >I wonder which pre-1965 cases he was referring to. First of all, I wonder why Keyhoe phrased this as he did, as the quoted material is from a rather lengthy discussion of UFOs included in LeMay's autobiog. Another minor mystery of "ufology." LeMay mentions he was often asked if he'd ever seen a UFO. He says he didn't, then goes into a discussion of the subject, pretty much as summarized by Keyhoe. Unfortunately, LeMay doesn't refer to any specific case or cases. I don't have the LeMay book in my library--borrowed it from an associate when doing my research. He's sending me photocopies of the relevant pages, and I'll post the exact text here when I receive same. Ironic tale on myself: When going thru the book, I was so focused on Blanchard, I didn't think to look for refs. to UFOs. Duh... -- KARLOS, IRONIC DUKE OF ALBURQUERQUE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Rebecca Rants From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:37:31 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:51:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants Greetings, EBK, Rebecca, and List Recipients: >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:26:36 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Rebecca Rants In your eloquent and most poignant way, you have asked: >Is it wrong of ufologists to point out flaws in other ufologists >arguments/statements? NO! (emphatic) Absolutely not. The fact that just the opposite has gone on for so long, overall, is why UFOlogy is in such a state of dissarray. >Is this somehow worse than say, the general public or even CSICOP >doing it? On the contrary, if we do not police ourselves, then we invite and probably even deserve such. >Should we just let anyone in this field make any kind of claim and >support them, no matter what? ABSOLUTELY NOT. To do so is, frankly, nuts. There are so many charlatans and outright liars out there in this field (as in others), that we cannot, under ANY circumstances blindly support claims and assertions that have been made. That serves only to detract from what we are trying to accomplish. >BTW, Leir claims now to be in possession of FOUR frames from the >Santilli Autopsy film. Sanitlli, having been convinced of Sims and >Leir's integrity gave it to them to have tested after they agreed to >only send the test results back to Santilli. >What's wrong with that picture? SNORT!! Birds of a feather... In the interest of good manners I won't say what I am bursting to. ;^> Did I earlier mention charlatans and liars? 'Nuff said. As a short comment, and I hope everyone understands that I don't have the time or inclination to debate these issues in depth at the moment, I would like to say that, whether I fully agree with everything that Kent Jeffrey, James Easton, and others say or not, I salute them for doing what they can to investigate an issue, draw conclusions, and then state their points of view. The fact is, we do not all have to agree. If we did, this field would become stagnant and cultish. Back to the topic, we cannot afford to blindly support those who promote bad science and blatanly false scenarios. For a practical demonstration of this, visit http://ufo-world.simplenet.com and see who has won the UFO World Annual HOT SEAT Award, Ol' Sparky. Nope, we don't believe in supporting everyone, no matter what, and we call a spade a spade, no matter how "big" their name is. Regards, Glenn ******************************************** ** Visit : http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** ** It's a SERIOUS look at UFO phenomena ** ********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Rebecca Rants From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:34:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:54:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants At 10:42 AM 08/15/97 -0400, UFO UpDates - Rebecca wrote: >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:26:36 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Rebecca Rants >My questions are: >Is it wrong of ufologists to point out flaws in other ufologists >arguments/statements? No it isn't. >Is this somehow worse than say, the general public or even CSICOP doing it? I can't see how. >Should we just let anyone in this field make any kind of claim and support >them, no matter what? OF COURSE NOT! >BTW, Leir claims now to be in possession of FOUR frames from the Santilli >Autopsy film. Sanitlli, having been convinced of Sims and Leir's integrity >gave it to them to have tested after they agreed to only send the test >results back to Santilli. Gag! >What's wrong with that picture? Plenty. When has Santilli ever delivered the provable goods on any claim? Never. Leir, Sims and Santilli = The Three Stooges. Woowoo. Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. My pet squirrel ("Rocky") has more credibility that any of these clowns. Did Pat Parrinello ever get any data back from Leir/Sims on his implant removal? NO HE DID NOT. In my blunt opinion, Derril Sims is a baldfaced liar and not to be believed about anything. Ditto on Santilli. Can you say "con artists", "hucksters" and scamsters? Sure you can! Gee, no small wonder why these disgusting wannabes don't like to be criticized. Too bad! You know something Rebecca? They can get over what I have to say them it and no, you're not "ranting", and no, there isn't anything wrong with YOUR perception. Always call a spade a spade. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 16 BWW Media Alert 970815 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:55:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 02:55:22 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970815 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin's Home Page< /A> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html"> </A>TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (Permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes, provided attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before e-mailing them something. If you do forward it to someone, please be sure that it is clear you are forwarding it) August 15, 1997 Well, I think the listings are pretty good, but I'm out of time for much else. My pick of the week might be A&E's abominable snowman things on Thursday... <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A> <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com"> </A>I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours. On to the listings! (Remember, times given here are generally Pacific) FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. COMEDY CENTRAL's new adult cartoon sereies, SOUTH PARK, is running their alien abduction episode over and over this week...some times are Saturday at 11:30 PM, Sunday at 2:00 PM. GORGO, a sea monster movie (one plot "twist" may remind you of JPII, THE LOST WORLD) is on AMC on Saturday at 3:00 AM. MIAMI VICE has a UFO episode on Monday on FX at 12:00 AM. PICKET FENCES has "Away in the Manger" about cattle with alien DNA on Sunday at 11:00 PM on FX. Fox is running MORE SECRETS OF THE X-FILES on Monday at 8:00 PM. You may also want to be aware that FX is running THE X-FILES in order starting on Tuesday at 8:00 PM. I was turned off by the first episode, since it wasn't supposed to be exploitation, Scully was supposed to be the "scientist", and yet she was in her underwear in Mulder's arms early on in this one. There were some other reasons, too, but it was awhile before I watched another one). SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN on SCI-FI CHANNEL on Wed at 2:00 PM has one of the bigfoot episodes. For programming kids ;), you can have them watch RUPERT AND THE UFO on Nickelodeon on Thursday at 1:00 PM. ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.COM/~ufomus/chat/ <A HREF="http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.CO M/~ufomus/chat/ ">Museum Chat</A> OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. Michael Shermer is the guest. He's the Publisher of SKEPTIC MAGAZINE and author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=071673 0901/bufosweirdworldA/">Why People Believe Weird Things </A> <A HREF="http:/ /www.omnimag.com/t alk/"> </A><A HREF="http://www.omnima g.com/talk/">OMNI Prime Time</A> RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</A> Next week's guests not known (except for Michael Lindemann ...he'll be on at 6:00 PM Wednesday as I write this, but you can check their website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. Archives of earlier shows are also available, so you can hear my previous broadcasts through this site. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? --week of 8/11, Abraham Lincoln delivered by midwife; asthma victim saved by mystery person --week of 8/18, precognitive rescue dream; ghost neighbor diagnosis illness PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com <A HREF="http://www.psifactor.com">P SI Factor</A> for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 8/18, THE 13TH FLOOR; THE BELIEVER Saturday, August 16 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. 5:00 PM, rescheduled from last week, <A HREF="http://www.ll ewellyn.com">FATE Magazine</A> Editor Corinne Kenner will test listeners psychic abilities on air: top performers get a free one-year subscription; 5:40 PM, Bob Larso says UFOs are Satanic...I tried to find his book, but couldn't yet. He's not the first person to espouse this view, of course, although the Reverend Billy Graham has plumped for the opposite; 6:00 PM, Lou Wright, Elvis' psychic, on the King and the paranormal (by the way, did you hear about the weeping Elvis statue this week?); 6:30 PM, Louis LeGrand on communicating with the dead; 7:00 PM, Susan Shaw will channel Elvis, so you can ask =him= about his ex-son-in-law (or whatever); 7:30 PM, Dr. Kent Cullers, a blind SETI guy who was the inspiration for the character in CONTACT. 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MONSTERS OF THE DEEP (see sea monsters...the true classic on this is <A HREF= "http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0246643129/bufosweirdworldA/">In the W ake of the Sea-serpents</A> by Bernard Heuvelmans, which is out of print and hard to get. There are several other books, and I'll eventually get them on the site) 5:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, EXTREMELY WEIRD (I didn't like it much, but I'm not much of a Jay Thomas fan. Does have a piece on spontaneous human combustion. A recent book on the phenomenon: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/ exec/obidos/ISBN=0871317893/bufosweirdworldA/">Ablaze! : The Mysterious Fires of Spontaneous Human Combustion</A> by Larry Arnold) Sunday, August 17 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com <A HREF="http://www.artbell.com">Art Bell</A> for stations and program info) Art interviews Dannion Brinkley, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.c om/exec/obidos/ISBN=0061094463/bufosweirdworldA/">At Peace in the Light : The Further Adventures of a Reluctant Psychic</A> (among others) LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. Bigfoot (This is such a contentious field, that any book I name is going to get me letters of complaint ;) . That's one reason I will eventually get a whole bunch on my website. But I'm going with <A HREF= "http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1555660991/bufosweirdworldA/">Big Foot -Prints : A Scientific Inquiry into the Reality of Sasquatch</A> by Grover S. Krantz. If you are a "flesh-and-blood" person, that is, you think bigfoot is an undiscovered animal ((as opposed to something hyperdimensional or paranormal, etc.)), this is the one I'd recommend) 10:59 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): Majestic-12 (Alleged presidential briefing that talks about a secret group set up to study a recovered flying saucer. The most recent related book by the most prominent proponent: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1569247412/bufoswe irdworldA/">Top Secret/Majic</A> by Stanton Friedman); Sao Paolo haunting (ghosts in the big city); psychic detective Kathlyn Rhea (author of <A HREF=" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0890875294/bufosweirdworldA/">Mind Sens e : Fine Tuning Your Intellect and Intuition : A Practical Wkbk</A> ); Secrets of the Sphinx!; New Mexico Cattle Mutilation (includes San Luis Valley in Colorado: see <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=03129 58838/bufosweirdworldA/">The Mysterious Valley</A> by Christopher O'Brien) 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, ARE ALIENS TRYING TO CONTACT US? (A mixed bag, includes abductions, may SETI, and "The Face on Mars"...the classic book on "The Face" is <A HREF="http://ww w.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1883319307/bufosweirdworldA/">The Monuments of M ars : A City on the Edge of Forever</A> by Richard C. Hoagland ((this is the 4th edition)). By the way, there is a revised version of <A HREF="http://www .amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1556432429/bufosweirdworldA/">The Martian Enigmas - A Closer Look : The Face, Pyramids and Other</A> Unusual Objects on Mars by Mark J. Carlotto due out shortly) 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: EXORCISTS (covers specifically the case on which THE EXORCIST was based. Recommended book on exorcism: <A HREF="http:// www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=006065337X/bufosweirdworldA/">Hostage to the D evil : The Possession and Exorcism of Five Americans</A> by Malachi Martin) 4:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY, THE MAGIC OF ALCHEMY 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): Majestic-12 (Alleged presidential briefing that talks about a secret group set up to study a recovered flying saucer. The most recent related book by the most prominent proponent: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1569247412/bufoswe irdworldA/">Top Secret/Majic</A> by Stanton Friedman); Sao Paolo haunting (ghosts in the big city); psychic detective Kathlyn Rhea (author of <A HREF=" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0890875294/bufosweirdworldA/">Mind Sens e : Fine Tuning Your Intellect and Intuition : A Practical Wkbk</A> ); Secrets of the Sphinx!; New Mexico Cattle Mutilation (includes San Luis Valley in Colorado: see <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=03129 58838/bufosweirdworldA/">The Mysterious Valley</A> by Christopher O'Brien) 5:00 PM, A&E, SCAMS, SCHEMES, AND SCOUNDRELS (this is Ace Debunker James "The Amazing Randi"...probably will tackle some paranormal stuff) 7:00 PM, BEYOND BELIEF (some stories are made up for the show, some are based on real cases, you're supposed to guess...I think I'm not going to lists topics for this show, it's too confusing) 8:00 PM, A&E, SCAMS, SCHEMES, AND SCOUNDRELS (this is Ace Debunker James "The Amazing Randi"...probably will tackle some paranormal stuff) 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): Majestic-12 (Alleged presidential briefing that talks about a secret group set up to study a recovered flying saucer. The most recent related book by the most prominent proponent: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1569247412/bufoswe irdworldA/">Top Secret/Majic</A> by Stanton Friedman); Sao Paolo haunting (ghosts in the big city); psychic detective Kathlyn Rhea (author of <A HREF=" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0890875294/bufosweirdworldA/">Mind Sens e : Fine Tuning Your Intellect and Intuition : A Practical Wkbk</A> ); Secrets of the Sphinx!; New Mexico Cattle Mutilation (includes San Luis Valley in Colorado: see <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=03129 58838/bufosweirdworldA/">The Mysterious Valley</A> by Christopher O'Brien) Monday, August 18 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse <A HREF="http://www.rysher.com/strangeun iverse/">Strange Universe</A> for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. Bigfoot (This is such a contentious field, that any book I name is going to get me letters of complaint ;) . That's one reason I will eventually get a whole bunch on my website. But I'm going with <A HREF="http ://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1555660991/bufosweirdworldA/">Big Foot-Prin ts : A Scientific Inquiry into the Reality of Sasquatch</A> by Grover S. Krantz. If you are a "flesh-and-blood" person, that is, you think bigfoot is an undiscovered animal ((as opposed to something hyperdimensional or paranormal, etc.)), this is the one I'd recommend) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#45): no details available Tuesday, August 19 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#46): no detailsavailable Wednesday, August 20 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#47): no details available Thursday, August 21 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: "The Rapture", about UFOs...may be Heaven's Gate (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#48): no details available 3:58 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5068): Texas haunting; Nazi-built flying saucers; New Zealand; abductions by aliens; plants that communicate; Korean UFO sightings 7:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY, SEARCH FOR THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN (this should be a good one...Loren Coleman, author of <A HREF="http:/ /www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0571129005/bufosweirdworldA/">Tom Slick and t he Search for the Yeti</A> , consulted) 9:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION ( A recent book on the phenomenon: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/ exec/obidos/ISBN=0871317893/bufosweirdworldA/">Ablaze! : The Mysterious Fires of Spontaneous Human Combustion</A> by Larry Arnold) 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5068): Texas haunting; Nazi-built flying saucers; New Zealand; abductions by aliens; plants that communicate; Korean UFO sightings 11:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY, SEARCH FOR THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN (this should be a good one...Loren Coleman, author of <A H REF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0571129005/bufosweirdworldA/">Tom Slick and the Search for the Yeti</A> , consulted) Friday, August 22 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION ( A recent book on the phenomenon: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/ exec/obidos/ISBN=0871317893/bufosweirdworldA/">Ablaze! : The Mysterious Fires of Spontaneous Human Combustion</A> by Larry Arnold) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#49): no details available 9:00 PM, NBC, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES, among other things, a psychic and UFO observers This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Rebecca Rants From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:19:33 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 03:00:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> > From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> > Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants I appreciate everyone's reply to my posting and basically, I have to say that I agree. I think Mark Cashman's raised a valid point when he said: > However, in science, the debates usually do not reach the level of > acrimony and outright ad hominem attack that they do in UFOlogy. > Why? Because most science has experiment and direct observation > to fall back on. When someone makes a claim, those who evaluate it > negatively have proof to show. Unfortunately, that is much more > difficult in UFOlogy, because such evidence is much more rarely > available. Also, UFOlogy is more expansive in terms of variation in what > is considered evidence, speculation, theory, and fact, so there is much more > room for argument. And, sadly, there are numerous outright charlatans > and mystics in the field, and in those cases, the very subject of proof > is usually anathema. I know there are definitely some who I consider to be outright charlatans and mystics and I don't like being associated with them. Have you noticed the way UFO "buffs" are portrayed in the movies? Have you seen "Contact," "Independence Day," or "Strange Days?" I don't like being identified with a group of people like those portrayed there. I'm certainly no scholar, but I'm not stupid either -- and I don't like being thought of as someone who wears a propellor beanie or builds landing pads. I don't like associating with people who claim to read Vegan. Or those who ... well, you get the picture. How does the field correct this? How do serious researchers (or those even seriously interested in learning about UFOs) extract themselves from the people in this field who make wild, unsubstantiated claims? Mark, you also make excellent points about evidence. Apparently there is a lot of evidence to suggest something unusual is going on. I think somewhere you mentioned about Ted Phillips' thousands of physical trace cases and I know you are aware of the EM effects evidece, and John Schuessler has a pretty good collection of medical evidence; however, much of it seems to be undocumented -- though, I know there is some good evidence to suggest medical evidence. Maybe we are to blame for not making people more aware of this evidence. We seem to get bogged down in the flashy claims -- the implant removals, the alien artifacts, the crash retrievals. But it appears that it's these flashy claims that people want to know and hear about. It's big news when a mile long ET vehicle is stranded over Phoenix and thousands of people see it. It's big news when an anonymous man gives a rock he claims came from the Roswell crash to the Alien Hunter [TM]. It's big news when an anonymous cameraman films an alien autopsy and sells said film to a man looking for Elvis footage. Or what about this alien interview footage -- everyone seems curious about that. Or.... well, you get the picture. The general public obviously doesn't care for evidence, they want to hear Robet Dean tell about a book that he allegedly saw. Or David Adair talk about his dealings with NASA when he was 17 years old. Or.... It's all very discouraging to me. However, I was somewhat encouraged by everyone's response to my question until I read: > From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:26:12 -0500 > Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:20:28 -0400 > Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 [a big, fat, arrogant snip] Either Ted was being really sarcastic or anyone who questions is a naysayer, not just any naysayer either -- an arrogant naysayer. So pay no attention to me -- I might really rant. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 16 The depressing news about UFO news From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 03:20:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:36:56 -0400 Subject: The depressing news about UFO news In the course of trying to obtain a story on a UFO sighting in 1968 from the Orlando Sentinel, I decided to take the opportunity to browse their archives for stories on UFOs over the last 4 years. Of 368 stories retrieved with this keyword, 3 were serious news pieces. Of the rest, about 50% seemed to be derogatory references to UFOs as equivalent to Elvis sightings, or comparing various stupid things to UFOs. Many of the rest were announcements of events or lectures. Here's one of the least offensive examples: LOOK! UP IN THE SKY! IT'S CHINESE SUPERMUSHROOM! Published on 03/05/93, Article 309 of 584 found. Was it an angel? Or was it a giant flying mushroom? The sky over China's largest city, Shanghai, was filled with an unidentified flying object for more than an hour Tuesday, the Xinmin Evening News said in an edition received in Beijing Thursday. On a more stupid note - NEW DOWNTOWN TOWER OF LIGHT IS ACTUALLY ANTENNA TO ALIENS! Published on 07/26/92, Article 335 of 584 found. For months, baffled Orlando residents have wondered why the city would put something so silly as the ''Tower of Light'' sculpture in front of the new City Hall. But now the riddle has been solved: The Tower of Light actually is a transmission facility used to communicate with aliens from outer space! Or perhaps... UFO SIGHTINGS PROVE TO BE CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF EXPLAINABLE KIND Published on 03/08/91, Article 394 of 584 found. E.T. or not E.T.? That is the question. A flurry of celestial activity has led to an increase in UFO sightings in Central Florida over the past three days. In all, about a dozen people have phoned The Orlando Sentinel wondering if Florida is being invaded by little green men. or... UFO FANS' CONVENTION IS FAR OUT Published on 05/11/91, Article 387 of 584 found. TUCSON, Ariz. Omnec Onec, who landed here from Chicago, says life on her native planet, Venus, isn't all that different from life on Earth. ''It's like the desert areas here. It's amazing how adaptable the human species is,'' said Onec, one of 30 speakers at the World UFO Convention that landed here this month. It's clear from my exhausting perusal of the gratuitous UFO insult that journalists are not seeing the same universe of reports that researchers are. No, they're watching "Sightings" or perusing the most purile of the UFO newsgroups, or visiting Roswell. You can't really get the feeling I developed by reading these few short shots. You need to go to the Sentinel archive, do a search on UFO and page through 10 or eleven pages of summaries of throwaway stories to see what I mean. Someone on a list I subscribe to recently claimed that things were going well for UFOlogy, that we had shows and books, and the debunkers weren't. Well, this night is a sobering experience that wipes away that optimism. Sure we have books. They're mixed in with the astrology books. Sure we have shows, and after five minutes of UFO coverage, we get a piece on ghosts or police psychics. Hundreds, thousands, maybe tens of thousands of good reports, physical and medical effects. Fifty years. And this is the result. Nothing. Arrgh! Go visit - get sober. http://archives.orlandosentinel.com ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 16 Russian UFOs From: armen victorian <Zius@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 06:22:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:41:28 -0400 Subject: Russian UFOs CROATIAN MEDIA CARRIES RUSSIAN UFO REPORT The following is the exact duplication of a document, filed to NSA in 1993, released by the State Department in July 1997. The initial information was provided by a source, requesting its pursuit through US Government channels - which I did. "The Russian Ministry of Defense publication of its "UFO Dossier" made news in Zagreb Feb. 23, 1993. According to press reports, the Soviets claimed that a special unit of 200 of their soldiers stationed near Hanoi in the summer of 1965 fired at a UFO which appeared in front of their headquarters. The UFO returned fire with a laser-like weapon and the Russians were "completely dematerialized". The Ministry of Defense also reportedly claimed that it had arranged a meeting with extra-terrestrials which was to have taken place in Tashkent June 28, 1991. The Russians arrived but nobody came from the other side". Copy of this transmission from the Ambassador in the US Embassy in Zagreb, was sent to; Secretary of State, Washington US Mission Geneva. Secretary of Defense Washington DC. US European Command. Commander Sixth Fleet. CINC US Air Force Europe - Ramstein. CINC US Air Force Heidelberg GE. CINC US Navy Europe, London. US Embassy Vienna. US Mission US-UN New York. White House US Mission US-Vienna Joint Staff Washington. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Rebecca Rants From: Ron Decker <ron_decker@wavebbs.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 05:45:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:44:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:19:33 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > > From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> > > From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> > > Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > I appreciate everyone's reply to my posting and basically, I have to say that > I agree. I think Mark Cashman's raised a valid point when he said: [....] > Maybe we are to blame for not making people more aware of this evidence. We > seem to get bogged down in the flashy claims -- the implant removals, the > alien artifacts, the crash retrievals. But it appears that it's these flashy > claims that people want to know and hear about. It's big news when a mile > long ET vehicle is stranded over Phoenix and thousands of people see it. It's > big news when an anonymous man gives a rock he claims came from the Roswell > crash to the Alien Hunter [TM]. It's big news when an anonymous cameraman > films an alien autopsy and sells said film to a man looking for Elvis > footage. Or what about this alien interview footage -- everyone seems curious > about that. Or.... well, you get the picture. The general public obviously > doesn't care for evidence, they want to hear Robet Dean tell about a book > that he allegedly saw. Or David Adair talk about his dealings with NASA when > he was 17 years old. Or.... Rebecca, I was reading this and, before I got to the paragraph immediately above, I was thinking, "Boredom is the key here." I think you've summed it up quite well. BTW, thanks for positing these questions. IMHO, serious UFO researchers are not to blame for the lack of awareness currently amongst the general population. The general public wants sensational material; it's far more interesting to read about a trip in a flying saucer and sex with lizards than reading some technical piece about trace evidence. So why is anyone surprised when highly sensational (and probably questionable) evidence is consumed and preferred before serious and not-so-titillating evidence? And, if the public is so willing to eat this stuff up, the law of supply and demand enters the equation. Essentially, there's more on the way. I think another key is the inability of the American public to sustain an interest in virtually anything for long periods of time. Flashy and sensational entertainment is the order of the day. More than likely a sub-group of people will continue to gather material and report with little public acknowledgement, approval or interest while the more visible sensationalists will continue to grow and gain more influence. Unfortunately, one of the components of unveiling the ufo phenomenon is public interest because public interest/opinion is a driving force in determining the sustainability of this field. If the public is content (and even eager) to settle for alien gunfights and lurid sex with people of another world (and sex always sells) then that's where the public focus is going to stay. It's bound to be frustrating for someone doing not-so-sensational investigations to see their work taking a back seat to someone claiming to have direct contact with the space brothers, for instance. > It's all very discouraging to me. However, I was somewhat encouraged by > everyone's response to my question until I read: > > From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> > [a big, fat, arrogant snip] > Either Ted was being really sarcastic or anyone who questions is a naysayer, > not just any naysayer either -- an arrogant naysayer. > So pay no attention to me -- I might really rant. Go to it. I'd wager it'd make some interesting reading. :) Best regards, Ron.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Rebecca Rants From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:25:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:45:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:19:33 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants [snip] >I know there are definitely some who I consider to be outright charlatans and >mystics and I don't like being associated with them. Have you noticed the way >UFO "buffs" are portrayed in the movies? Have you seen "Contact," >"Independence Day," or "Strange Days?" I don't like being identified with a >group of people like those portrayed there. I'm certainly no scholar, but I'm >not stupid either -- and I don't like being thought of as someone who wears a >propellor beanie or builds landing pads. I don't like associating with people >who claim to read Vegan. Or those who ... well, you get the picture. How does >the field correct this? How do serious researchers (or those even seriously >interested in learning about UFOs) extract themselves from the people in this >field who make wild, unsubstantiated claims? Your sentiments are appreciated by many others (including myself), but I'm not sure how any sort of self-imposed system can bring order to a genre that seems to have no boundaries. Indeed, it seems that any sort of paranormal event can have some connection to UFOs in the minds of some, when in reality there seems to be little more to connect it than the fact that it's something that's "unknown". Does it surprise anyone that most respected scientists are loathe to become involved in a genre? IMHO, the competitive nature of scientific research forces most to pursue more accepted lines of investigation, effectively placing "blinders" on science. It would seem that some form of self-regulation is in order, but an infastructure doesn't exist within the genre to impose it. As in religion and politics, if one finds that they have philosophical differences with others in their "group", one can always form another "group" comprised of those with similar beliefs. Science has many similarities to religion and politics, but is (allegedly) based on evidence and research, rather than "faith". IMHO, ufology is thought to be a "science" by many who are motivated by "faith". Science and ufology share many of the same internal conflicts, but ufology doesn't have a peer-review process to impose self-regulation. Unfortunately, (again IMHO) the breadth of the genre and the mix of faith and evidence used to support many of the facets of it, makes self-regulation nearly impossible. If someone has an answer to this dilemma, many of us would like to hear it. >It's all very discouraging to me. However, I was somewhat encouraged by >everyone's response to my question until I read: >> From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> >> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:26:12 -0500 >> Fwd Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:20:28 -0400 >> Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >[a big, fat, arrogant snip] >Either Ted was being really sarcastic or anyone who questions is a naysayer, >not just any naysayer either -- an arrogant naysayer. >So pay no attention to me -- I might really rant. >Rebecca As others have said, please keep ranting. It is always good to focus on the process from time to time. And don't worry about those with whom you find you disagree, since they can always find solice in some segment of the genre. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 16
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 16 Devil's Dictionary From: Old `whistle lips <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 97 00:08:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:49:35 -0400 Subject: Devil's Dictionary Magnet, n.: Something acted upon by magnetism. Magnetism, n.: Something acting upon a magnet. The two definition immediately foregoing are condensed from the works of one thousand eminent scientists, who have illuminated the subject with a great white light, to the inexpressible advancement of human knowledge. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" [Pat Parrinello]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Blanchard and LeMay From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Thursday, 14 August 1997 7:49am MT Fwd Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:33:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Blanchard and LeMay >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:06:52 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Blanchard and LeMay >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:54:21 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Blanchard and LeMay >Karl referenced: >* Curtis E. LeMay with Mackinley Kantor, MISSION WITH LEMAY: MY >STORY, Doubleday, 1965.* >Karl, >I had tried to find a copy of LeMay's autobiography, without >success. >I was interested to know if he mentioned the subject of UFOs at all. >In "Aliens from Space", Major Donald E. Keyhoe notes: >In 1965, General LeMay discussed UFOs with Pulitzer Prize writer >MacKinlay Kantor, with whom he co-authored "Mission With LeMay. My >Story". In contradiction to the AF claims, the general stated there >were unsolved sightings by scientists, pilots and other responsible >observers. >"There were some cases we could not explain," LeMay emphasized. >"Repeat again. Never could". Anecdotal story: I had a friend in Long Beach, Calif. He was a UFO buff and ham radio operator. He struck up conversations with LeMay who also lived in the area over ham radio. One day he asked if he could visit the retired General, especially since his health was failing. Once in LeMay's living room and having gotten acquainted he broached the subject of UFOs. LeMay answered that he knew about them and was pissed at the CIA because he wasn't told by them their planets of origin (as if he expected that as part of a briefing). LeMay passed away shortly thereafter and my friend never returned for another visit. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Rebecca Rants From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:14:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:44:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/16/97 9:45 AM: > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:25:24 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Rebecca Rants > Science and ufology share many of the same internal > conflicts, but ufology doesn't have a peer-review process to impose > self-regulation. Unfortunately, (again IMHO) the breadth of the genre and > the mix of faith and evidence used to support many of the facets of it, > makes self-regulation nearly impossible. > If someone has an answer to this dilemma, many of us would like to hear it. Ruthless journal editors, requiring peer review, rejecting adds for Bigfoot print casts. Publicity like the stuff that reads (in your normal morning paper): "Dr. Steve Youknow and Dr. Peter Otherguy reported the results of their study of the other thing in an article due to appear in the nextmonth issue of the journal 'Science'." Ours would be: "Dr. Serious UFOGuy reports the results of a six year analysis of UFO landing traces in an article due to appear in the nextmonth issue of the MUFON Journal..." Yes, we can do it, and if we don't the crackpots will. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Rebecca Rants From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:06:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:56:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/16/97 3:00 AM: > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:19:33 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> > > From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> > > From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> > > Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > I know there are definitely some who I consider to be outright charlatans > and > mystics and I don't like being associated with them. Have you noticed the > way > UFO "buffs" are portrayed in the movies? Have you seen "Contact," > "Independence Day," or "Strange Days?" I don't like being identified with a > group of people like those portrayed there. I'm certainly no scholar, but > I'm > not stupid either -- and I don't like being thought of as someone who wears > a > propellor beanie or builds landing pads. I don't like associating with > people > who claim to read Vegan. Or those who ... You don't have to be a scholar to be validly interested in UFOs. After all even non-scientists are interested in computers and astronomy and biology. But to feel that even reading about the stuff puts you in the class you mention is certainly pervasive. I am sure that it at least partly puts off interested scientists, who might otherwise read the literature. Can you imagine a professor of physics walking into his local Borders or Barnes and Noble, and scanning the UFO section (right next to the astrology and magic section)? All he needs is for his department head to walk in and see him reading that stuff Though it's probably more of a visceral fearof association that keeps him away rather than any concrete concern. > How > does > the field correct this? How do serious researchers (or those even seriously > interested in learning about UFOs) extract themselves from the people in > this > field who make wild, unsubstantiated claims? I wish I knew. I suppose carefully reasoned letters to the editor, press releases about serious investigative and analytical efforts, and real press conferences of substance, and some peer review for the regular conferences to keep the Pleiadians out... > Mark, you also make excellent points about evidence. Apparently there is a > lot of evidence to suggest something unusual is going on. I think somewhere > you mentioned about Ted Phillips' thousands of physical trace cases and I > know you are aware of the EM effects evidece, and John Schuessler has a > pretty good collection of medical evidence; however, much of it seems to be > undocumented -- though, I know there is some good evidence to suggest > medical > evidence. Yes, the medical evidence is pretty interesting - I've been doing some studies along those lines. The most difficult part there is getting medical records, which witnesses rightly feel should be kept confidential. And yes, there are lots of credible trace and effect cases in every category. What I'd like to see for headlines are things like - "X-ray experiments on plants confirm Trans-en-Provence UFO emitted X-rays" or "6 UFO landing cases found with weights in the tens of tons". But the only way that's going to happen is when credible researchers announce credible results which will withstand skeptical scrutiny. We don't have to have all of these results published in mainstream scientific journals, but results like these in the MUFON journal, with a press release and an AP story, pre-peer reviewed within the UFO community by QUALIFIED scientists... this would certainly help to offset the negative press we seem to get and perhaps deserve. > Maybe we are to blame for not making people more aware of this evidence. We > seem to get bogged down in the flashy claims -- the implant removals, the > alien artifacts, the crash retrievals. But it appears that it's these flashy > claims that people want to know and hear about. It's big news when a mile > long ET vehicle is stranded over Phoenix and thousands of people see it. > It's > big news when an anonymous man gives a rock he claims came from the Roswell > crash to the Alien Hunter [TM]. It's big news when an anonymous cameraman > films an alien autopsy and sells said film to a man looking for Elvis > footage. Or what about this alien interview footage -- everyone seems > curious > about that. Or.... well, you get the picture. The general public obviously > doesn't care for evidence, they want to hear Robet Dean tell about a book > that he allegedly saw. Or David Adair talk about his dealings with NASA when > he was 17 years old. Or.... Yes, but these people are also relentless publicists. We need to have our journal editors be equally relentless publicists for the positive view of UFOs by calling the attention of the press community to positive articles in their journals, by refusing the less-than-credible classifieds, etc. > It's all very discouraging to me. However, I was somewhat encouraged by > everyone's response to my question until I read: > > > From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> > Either Ted was being really sarcastic or anyone who questions is a naysayer, > not just any naysayer either -- an arrogant naysayer. If you walk the objective middle line, the believers will revile you for not accepting incredible unsubstantiated claims, and the debunkers will revile you for even paying attention to the subject. But the other people, who are what I call "friendly skeptics" - people who look at new claims with a skeptical but friendly eye, willing to accept positive proof, and even seeking it, while being prepared to discount what can't be substantiated - those people will admire you. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Rebecca Rants From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 15:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:51:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:26:36 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Rebecca Rants > More and more, I've been hearing how bad the ufological community is about > attacking their own. <snip> > > My questions are: > Is it wrong of ufologists to point out flaws in other ufologists > arguments/statements? > Is this somehow worse than say, the general public or even CSICOP doing it? > Should we just let anyone in this field make any kind of claim and support > them, no matter what? > I really would like some feedback on this. > What's wrong with that picture? > Thanks, > Rebecca Rebecca, Some comments: You are tapping into a much larger and very important matter: the coming of age of the 50 year old UFO research movement. This process must succeed if there is to be a balanced examination with extensive citizen involvement of the issues, evidence and implications of the post paradigm world. The various problems you are commenting on all stem from a single source: a partially formed and inadequate self-understanding of the movement as a whole by its participants. There has been very little written on the Zeitgeist of this movement. Anyone willing to invest their time in a book has too many targets to aim at besides the larger picture of the movement itself, and such a book would bring little return financially. Very briefly here are some key points: The UFO community as a whole needs to comprehend that: 1) It is involved in an issue of unprecedented implications and is pushing the paradigmatic envelope to the limit. It must respect the natural fear, resistance and reactions of the public and the public's institutional representatives. 2) It has always operated on the outside looking in with little money, little moral support, few mainstream authorities willing to comment on its work and without the benefit of the long standing research protocols, trade associations, scientific traditions, old boy/girl networks, and general acceptance that most fields of discovery consider standard equipment. 3) As regards a focused topic, it has been the most extensive citizen effort of scientific discovery and citizen investigation of government in the history of the human race, In that regard it had not choice. That was the hand that was dealt. The circumstances were extraordinarily democratic and everyone could play - smart/dumb, educated/self-educated, sane/delusional, humble/arrogant, religious/non-religious, etc. Rather than be criticized for this vast eclecticism, the movement should be lauded for its truly amazing record of persistence, accomplishment and openness. It has not been a failure it has been a great success. Past historical paradigm transition have gone much more slowly and been much nastier. 4) Nevertheless, we are a demanding and impatient society. Those involved in the UFO movement have experienced great frustration, pain, ridicule. There has been little opportunity to vent this frustration on the mainstream institutions - they laugh it off. So we vent at each other, tear at each other and the proper bounds of criticism and debate are crossed repeatedly. This is human nature. 5) The UFO movement is in fact at risk of coming apart at the seams just as it approaches the finish line and losing much of its influence in the postparadigm world. This can be avoided if every member of this loose confederation: a) steps back and attempts to see the larger picture and their place in that picture. b) reintroduces themselves to the fundamental humility that has always been at the core of great science and great scientists and renounces arrogance as a counter productive stance regardless of their views and needs. c) accepts the given democratic nature of this movement and shows some empathy for the broad range of methods that their fellow citizens utilize to adapt to and embrace this unfolding reengineering of the world. d) understands that the UFO movement has become more than just a voyage of discovery but also a model which the mainstream part of our and other cultures may, and I say may, turn to for constructive example, information and guidance as they are forced by virtue of events to deal at last with the truths they have so assiduously avoided dealing with for so long. It is very easy to forget, as one delves deeper and deeper into the accumulating evidence and theoretical extrapolations, that one is not special because one comes to the truth before someone else. No one owns that franchise. The truth effects us all, even when it is hidden. One hidden truth that seems to lurk behind every corner of the unfolding UFO evidence is this: tolerance. The lack of it seems capable of bringing down any enterprise humans can construct - even the end of the world itself. It may be the last quality we must truly command to survive. Its lack within the UFO community among researchers, intriguees, debunkers, operatives, contactees can be just as damaging as the same deficiency the mainstream community has demonstrated in its efforts to thwart the movement itself. Stephen Bassett Paradigm Research Group ParadigmRG@aol.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: sgblist2 | xiannekei |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Phoenix? From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 16:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:12:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix? In a message dated 97-08-13 19:27:46 EDT, you write: > Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:29:25 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Phoenix????? > Hi Errol, hi All, > I thought I'd 'cop' a page from Phillip Mantles' book and just post > a request for info this time. <G> > Does anybody have any further word (know of any) new developments in the > Phoenix lights case? I hate it when things just drop from view like that. > John Velez _______________ There is a distinct possibility that the Phoenix case will become part of an upcoming political campaign in Arizona. This will be significant because such a circumstance would give the press a legitimate basis to dig and cover. Stephen Bassett Paradigm Research Group PardadigmRG@aol.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: sgblist2 | jvif |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Blanchard and LeMay From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:31:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Blanchard and LeMay In a message dated 08/15/97 14:52:40, you wrote: <<From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:45:40 -0400 (EDT) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Blanchard and LeMay > From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:54:21 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Blanchard and LeMay >GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- The following query/challenge was posted on >UpDates >by Kevin Randle: >>From: KRandle993@aol.com >>Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:46:47 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >>Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:03:46 -0500 (CDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon >>>From: DRudiak@aol.com >>>Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:36:51 -0400 (EDT) >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon KEVIN -- In your original post on this matter, you wrote: "It's been said that Blanchard was both a hotshot and a protege of Curtis LeMay.... Who said this and when? Can we document this allegation? Let's have some names and records so that it can be checked." When I provide you with what you asked for, you respond with a string of non sequiturs. (Speaking of which: <<Ring knocker refers to any academy graduate whether he or she is Army, Navy, or Air Force. >> True, but you forgot those academy grads serving in the REAL military: the United States Marine Corps, which is where I first heard the term used.) >It is important to note that all but one of the following gentlemen >held/hold Blanchard in the highest esteem and most considered him a good >friend-- > --MG Woodrow P. Swancutt, USAF (ret.), 3/21/93. Gen. Swancutt is now > deceased. > --BG Joseph O. Fletcher, USAF (ret.). Gen. Fletcher's views were provid ed > to me in 1993 by a very reliable source. > --COL Virgil "Luke" Sewell, USAF (ret.), 9/12/93. > --COL Arthur Jeffrey, USAF (ret.), ca. mid-'94. > --Robert J. Shirkey, 3/21/94. > --Walter G. Haut, 11/2/92. > --MSGT Lewis ("Bill") Rickett, USAF (ret.), passing remarks in an > interview with Mark Rodeghier, 1/90. > --While I can't personally speak to the truth of this, Kevin, you might > want to ask Frank Kaufmann about the aerial tequila run he says he mad e > to Mexico in an AT-6 with Blanchard, Blanchard at the controls. What we have is a list of people who respected Blanchard. So, I say again, there is no evidence that Blanchard was a loose cannon and no evidence that Blanchard and LeMay were anything other than good friends. There is no evidence of a rabbi/protege relationship.>> Of course, the point of mentioning the respect these men had for Blanchard was to emphasize the significance of their willingness to share recollections about his proclivity for "pushing the envelope." As for evidence, Kevin, with LeMay's autobiography and Kaufmann, I've given you nine of the sources of the information on the basis of which I concluded it was a good bet (not a certainty) the RAAF press announcement resulted from Blanchard jumping the gun. I cited six of them in "RiP"--in 1994, more than three years ago. Eight of them are checkable independent of Yrs Trly (the Rickett interview is on tape at CUFOS). You asked for it, Kevin. Now you've got it. Go to it. -- Semper Fi, KARL Search for other documents from or mentioning: ktperehwon | krandle993
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: I spy From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:36:19 -0400 Subject: Re: I spy GREETINGS TO THE LIST, &TC. -- In a message dated 08/16/97 04:31:05, JEROME, ARCHBISHOP OF CANBY (Hi, Jerry! As you can see, I found it) wrote: >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:38:49 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: I spy >Could it be that Karl's seemingly ardent belief in Mogul >balloonacy is the same kind of "semi-serious" tweaking? >> YOUR GRACE -- Nope, emphatically NOPE! Facts is facts. And we'll see about my They Were and They Went (TW2) Theory... Lotsa sage out here in northern New Mexico, but... -- KARL, IRONIC DUKE OF ALBURQUERQUE, SAGE-MINDER OF PLACITAS, MAD MONK OF ASHRAM EREHWON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:34:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:38:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' The well-known photograph of Major Marcel holding 'flying saucer' wreckage, which he claimed was "some of the less-interesting metallic debris", should perhaps on its own be sufficient to explain what Marcel had found. That aside, at the bottom left-hand corner of the photograph, is Dr Marcel's "i-beam with 'hieroglyphics'" visible? This section of the photograph, plus an enlargement, are now on my web site under URL: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/i-beam.jpg Could be? Or do I need glasses. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: UFO Crash Near Detroit In 1974 From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:46:08 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:20:36 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Crash Near Detroit In 1974 Here is another thought-provoking account that ought to be checked for sure. The alleged crash took place in 1974 and was announced two times by a tv station in Detroit, once in prime time news: a UFO with four aliens aboard had been intercepted by the United States Air Force and had crashed in the area. My check with Kevin Randle's "A History Of UFO Crashes" established that the incident might be confirmed by an entry in Len Stringfield's "Crash/Retrievals", but I haven't been able to compare with the latter. More on that presently. In her book about the life with her ex-husband (Backstage Passes, Life On the Wild Side with David Bowie, Orion Books, London, 1993, p. 203ff.) Angela Bowie says that it was nice to leave the hectic life of New York once in a while, whether it was for a concert tour or a mystery one. This quote concerns a tour in 1974: "The open road, for instance, was most refreshing. Yes...the limo purring along at a steady twenty-five, good old Brooklyn Tony Macia's bodyguarding bulk behind the wheel, Detroit back down the interstate unraveling behind us, Minneapolis-St Paul up ahead somewhere, the moonroof open, the powerful telescope surveying the summer night sky from its tripod mount, the aliens up there perhaps recognizing that we meant them no harm, that we were the ones who could be trusted... They had been having a bad time, after all. One of their craft had been intercepted somewhere north of Detroit, engaged by the United States Air Force and - well, we never found out what happened after that. We did'nt know if the saucer had been forced to crash-land on earth, or blasted out of the sky so that it fell to earth, or what. We did'nt know if its occupants - its crew? - were dead or alive or somewhere in between, although we did know that there were four of them. We knew all this because while we were in our hotel room in Detroit, we saw an afternoon TV news flash to the effect that a UFO had crashed in the area with four aliens aboard...more news at six. We tuned in again at six - of course we did, along with everybody in the state - and learned more, but not much more. The news crew confirmed the landing, yet avoided being specific about its location and presented what little information they had with great caution, as if doing their best to downplay the sensational and possibly panic-causing information they were supplying, straight-faced and soberly, to their public. These were the station's regular newscasters, reputable and popular, with everything to lose by creating a hoax and nothing but brief notoriety to gain. That, however, is what we were told when the eleven-o'clock news came around: The prime-time news crew had perpetrated an irresponsible and inexcusable hoax, and had therefore been dismissed from their jobs. No UFOs had landed; no aliens were in custody, dead or alive; the United States Air Force had positively not engaged or intercepted any craft whatsoever in the skies above Michigan; and that, officially and absolutely, was that. It was difficult to know what to make of this incident. At one extreme, it could have been just an overblown cosmic-hippie-cocaine dream, an instance of too much weirdness for too long crashing through into the perceived reality continuum. On the other hand, we had the videotape. Yes, even in 1974. It so happened that the documentary filmmaker Alan Yentob was along with us on the trip, making the film that would become "Cracked Actor", and he had his VCR hooked up to the television set in our hotel room when the afternoon news flash first caught our attention. So we'd taped the whole six-o'clock and eleven-o'clock news shows. There was no denying that the broadcasts had happened. The broadcasts at least. In David's opinion, and mine too, what had just occurred was indeed a warp in the usual business of business-as-usual. David believed very strongly that aliens were active above our planet, and so did (do) I. That's why we were so alert in the limo on the way to Minneapolis, watching intently for signs of further UFO activity in the bright night sky. It was mostly David who had his eye pressed to the telescope (purchased by Corinne Schwab, his personal assistant, during a lightning shopping spree in Detroit). He'd talked about the six-o'clock newscast during his show at Cobo Arena in Detroit, and he believed that the energy thus created might well have communicated itself to the beings monitoring from above our human reaction to their fallen (slain/captured/atomized?) fellows. I don't know quite what David expected, because by now he'd moved beyond his manic-monologue mode into his silent, non-communication state, but I suspect he would'nt have been surprised at all if the aliens had come right down to the limo and tractor-beamed him up for an exchange of ideas. He was feeling pretty much like the center of things here on earth at the time, after all, and it probably seemed obvious to him that some right-thinking human should take on the job of Man's ambassador... No aliens heeded the call, though, and after a while he disappeared into his coke, sheltered by Corinne, and I lost interest. I left the tour, and them, the next day." Evaluating the story I must admit the logic of Angela's views. It seems unlikely that a well-respected and popular newsstaff should risk its standing as well as its existence for the short mention, which reports like that might give. Add to this that her account might be confirmed by Len Stringfield's "Crash/Retrievals": "Spring 1975: Near Ohio-Michigan Border- Insufficient Data Bette Shilling reported to Len Stringfield that a friend, an Air Force officer, had told her that he'd seen a coded message telling of a flying saucer crash. According to that information two of the aliens were dead and a third was still alive. The message was directed from a communications station in Detroit and sent to the commanding officer of a base somewhere in Ohio." (Kevin D. Randle: A History of UFO Crashes, Avon Books, 1995, p. 206.) Unfortunately Randle doesn't say where he got the date from. Maybe Betty Shilling dated her experience to the spring of 1975, giving Randle a reason for referring the crash to this time frame. Stringfield himself might offer another and better basis for doing so, but as I don't have a copy of his book, I would very much appreciate if somebody could tell me how close Randle's rendering of the particulars is to Stringfield's own. >From my angle the message might just as well date from the previous year and refer to the same incident as Angela's account. The fact that Stringfield speaks of three, but the TV report of four aliens, may be attributed to the panic of the moment. Stig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Missing Post? Re: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Aug 97 07:38:39 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:28:50 -0400 Subject: Missing Post? Re: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy EBK, Somehow this missed getting posted. Henny may not be the only one who didn't know what I was talking about: >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>To: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >>From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Roswell Quagmire - An Analogy >Hi Henny, >In the old Indian proverb a number of blind men go to "see" an elephant. >There are many variations on the story, but this is the gist. >One blind man walks up to the elephant and takes hold of its tail. >"Ah," he declares, "I perceive that an elephant is very like a >rope." >Another walks up and puts his arms around the elephant's leg. >"No, my friend," he says," you are wrong. An elephant is very >like a tree." >A third takes hold of the elephant's trunk. "You are both wrong," >he says, with certainty, "an elephant is very like a fire hose." >A fourth gets hold of the elephant's ear. "How can you all be so >foolish," he mutters, "it is obvious that an elephant is very >like an old piece of leather!" >Other versions have more blind men, but you get the idea. The point >is that people relate their perceptions to past experience, and >usually only see a small piece of the whole. Good proverb. >Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Scary stuff about implants From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Aug 97 07:46:25 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:40:40 -0400 Subject: Scary stuff about implants Courtesy of Bob Soetebier, aka Bicycle Bob: BIG BROTHER'S IMPLANTABLE/INJECTABLE MICRO/BIO-CHIPS From an Oct. 11, 1993 "The Washington Times" article entitled, "High-tech national tattoo", by Martin Anderson: "...there is an identification system made by the Hughes Aircraft Company that you can't lose. It's the syringe implantable transponder. According to promotional literature it is an "ingenious, safe, inexpensive, foolproof and permanent method of ... identification using radio waves. A tiny microchip, the size of a grain of rice, is simply placed under the skin. It is so designed as to be injected simultaneously with a vaccination or alone." How does it work? Well, the "chip contains a 10 character alphanumeric identification code that is never duplicated. When a scanner is passed over the chip, the scanner emits a 'beep' and your ... number flashes in the scanner's digital display." [....] True, an implanted transponder can't yet hold anywhere near as much material as a smart card. But if the desire is there, larger size implants and tiny microchips could soon increase its storage capacity. Of course, most Americans will find a surgically implanted government microchip repugnant. At least for the foreseeable future, the use of this ingenious device will be confined to its current use: the tracking of dogs, cats, horses and cattle. But there is no difference in principle between forced to carry a microchip in a plastic card in your wallet or in a little pellet in your arm. The principle that Big Brother has the right to track you is inherent in both. The only difference is a layer of skin. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From the Sat., Oct. 15, 1994 Dr. Fox "ANIMAL DOCTOR" column in the "St. Louis [Missouri] Post-Dispatch": Dear Dr. Fox: Our local Humane Society has offered, for $25, a lifetime computer chip to be injected with a needle between the shoulder blades of a cat or dog. Apparently, all new animals adopted get a chip. [....] [....] [Dr. Fox:] ...the microchip identification system you describe is an excellent advance in helping with pet loss, owner identification and pet theft. [....] Microchip ID technology is safe...and adverse reactions following subcutaneous implantation are extremely rare... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From the "Electronic Leash: The Implantable Bio-Chip Is Already Here. Is Big Brother Just Around The Corner?" article by Lisa Crosby in the Vol. 11, No. 14, June 15-June 21 issue of the "Tucson [AZ] Weekly": [....] The size of an uncooked grain of rice, the silicon computer chip...When inserted underneath the skin, this chip can link an individual to a computer database, or it can track a person's location via satellite. [....] Sound impossible? Hardly. Microchip implants are in use as you read this. [....] Today, injecting a microchip into animals is routine. [....] [....] Microchip pet identification -- technically known as radio frequency identification (RFID) -- is available to pet owners nationwide. [....] [....] The concept seems simple. A microchip encased in biomedical-grade glass and imprinted with a unique, unalterable alpha-numeric code. Over 34 billion individual code numbers are available. [....] Once implanted, the chip is virtually impossible to remove. ...even surgical removal using advanced radiograph techniques is extremely difficult. This is because fibrous tissue adheres to grooves in the glass surrounding the chip to prevent migration of the chip... Since the chip operates with low-frequency radio waves and does not contain a battery, it remains passive with no parts to wear out. [....] ...the tracking of microchips does occur. Hughes Missiles Systems Company uses microchips to track aircraft and vehicles. [....] [....] But what about tracking people? While the Global Positioning System can track aircraft, there is a system of satellites in orbit right now that can track microchips injected into humans. Dr. Carl Sanders, an engineer for 32 years and the designer of the Intelligence Manned Interface (IMI) biochip for use in humans, told the "Monetary Economic Review" that "There are new satellites going up (such as the) 66 satellites that Motorola is putting up in conjunction with the Russians. These are low-orbiting satellites." He explains that certain microchips can be picked up by satellite. "We used this with military personnel in the Iraq war where they were actually tracked using this particular type of device." The concept of tracking children with microchips is already generating interest. The Associated Press reports that Dr, Daniel Man, a plastic surgeon in Miami, Florida could locate lost children or find Alzheimer's victims... The device would emit a signal that could be monitored through a cellular system, and possibly by satellite. [....] [....] But is the microchip actually ready to be injected in large numbers of people? ...the technology behind today's microchip is "fairly uncomplicated" and with a little refinement could be used in a variety of human applications. Sematech in Austin, Tex., developed a computer chip in 1993 that is only 0.35 microns wide -- roughly 1/200th the size of a human hair. [....] Dr. Carl Sanders is especially concerned about Big Brother's exploitation of the microchip. Sanders is an electronics engineer, inventor, author and consultant with extensive background in designing surveillance equipment for the CIA, FBI and the Customs Department in Atlanta. Although he worked on designing the microchip years ago, he is now concerned that it will be misused. On a tape he produced to explain his views on the microchip, Sanders says: "Thirty-two years of my life was spent in design engineering with a PhD in engineering, and electronic-designing microchips in the bio-med field....Working on the microchip, we had no idea about it ever being an identification chip. ..." [....] Sanders feels this chip may eventually used for life-long identification, possibly against people's will. The government may have the legal right authority to do this through the Immigration Control Act of 1986, which gives the president the authority to implement whatever type of identification is necessary to control the population. Sanders fears that a SmartCard, invisible tattoo, or electronic microchip under the skin may be used to enforce immigration laws. Currently there are several pending measures before Congress calling for a social security card for immigrant identification with a photo, fingerprint digitization, or bar code. [....] ... The injectable microchip has been equated with the "Mark of the Beast" -- a reference to a Biblical prophecy predicting that only those with a mark on the right hand or forehead in the End times will be able to buy or sell. (The supercomputer in Brussels handling worldwide bank clearings for the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunications is nicknamed "The Beast.") -------------------------------------------------------------------- (Related "bio-chip" information, as follows, is also contained in the 1994 book [ISBN 0-679-43176-4], Saved By the Light: The True Story of a Man Who Died Twice and the Profound Revelations He Received, an autobiography written by Dannion Brinkley.) From the book's inside flyleaf: On September 17, 1975, Dannion Brinkley was talking on the telephone during a thunderstorm. A bolt of lightning hit the phone line, sending thousands of volts of electricity into his head and down his body, throwing him several feet into the air. His heart stopped, and he died. When Brinkley revived in the morgue after twenty-eight minutes, he had an incredible story to tell. Saved By the Light, is the profoundly moving personal account of his near-death experiences -- the second NDE occurring fourteen years later -- and the resulting spiritual transformation that has completely altered his life. After the lightning strike, Brinkley watched from above as loved ones and medics tried to to start his heart. When doctors pronounced him dead he was already traveling through a dark tunnel toward a spirit being, who led him into a crystal city awash in light and tranquillity. Brought before thirteen angelic instructors in what he describes as "a cathedral of knowledge," Brinkley was told of events that would shake the world before the year 2000 -- including the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, the Persian Gulf War, and America's current economic crisis. Of the 117 revelations that he recalls, 95 have already come to pass. From pages 42 and 43 of the book (in regards to one of the "future" revelations that he "saw" -- or, was "shown" -- back in 1975; years before we had VCRs, personal computers, microwave ovens, grocery checkout bar-code scanners, etc.): ...Its visions addressed an important event in the distant future, the decade of the nineties (remember, this was 1975), when many great changes would take place. ...I watched as a biological engineer from the Middle East found a way to alter DNA and create a biological virus that would be used in the manufacture of computer chips. This discovery allowed for huge strides in science and technology. Japan, China, and other countries of the Pacific Rim experienced boom times as a result of this discovery and became powers of incredible magnitude. Computer chips produced from this process found their way into virtually every form of technology, from cars and airplanes and vacuum cleaners and blenders. Before the turn of the century, this man was among the richest in the world, so rich that he had a stranglehold on the world economy. Still the world welcomed him, since the computer chips he designed somehow put the world on an even keel. Gradually he succumbed to his own power. He began to think of himself as a diety and insisted on greater control of the world. With that extra control, he began to rule the world. His method of rule was unique. Everyone in the world was mandated by law to have one of his computer chips inserted underneath his or her skin. The chip contained all of the individual's personal information. If a government agency wanted to know something, all it had to do was scan your chip with a special device. By doing so, it could discover everything about you, from where you worked and lived to your medical records and even what kind of illness you might get in the future. There was an even more sinister side to this chip. A person's lifetime could be limited by programming the chip to dissolve and kill him with the viral substance it was made from. Lifetimes were controlled like this to avoid the cost that growing old places on the government. It was also used as a means of eliminating people with chronic illnesses that put a drain on the medical system. People who refused to have the chips implanted in their bodies roamed as outcasts. They could not be employed and were denied government services. -----------------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Phoenix Lights & Martial Law From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Aug 97 07:48:55 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:50:47 -0400 Subject: Phoenix Lights & Martial Law __________________________________________________ Forwarded message: Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 01:31:44 -0400 From: Richard S. Ralston <rralston@parrett.net> To: bikebob <bikebob@MO.NET>, Vmt13psi@aol.com Subject: [Another Phoenix March 13th Event?] (fwd) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:37:04 -0500 From: "Brian T. Adams" <badams01@MAIL.ORION.ORG> Subject: [Another Phoenix March 13th Event?] (fwd) To: UFO-L@MB.PROTREE.COM Last Friday, Francis Barwood, councilwoman for the city of Phoenix who came forward to ask the city of Phoenix to investigate the March 13th UFO lights over the city sighting case, was on the Chuck Harder radio talk show discussing a recent Phoenix council meeting presentation by the federal gov't military to the council. It was about counter-terrorism exercise operations to be conducted by the military at 27 US cities over the next few months. Phoenix is one of the selected cities. She discussed that the new Executive Order President Clinton signed into law stating that as long as some high city official okays this military exercise to take place over and in the city that this is enough "clearance" the military needs to proceed without a vote of the city council members. Is this the "rumored" martial law story that was to take place in July at Phoenix and some other locations we heard mentioned during the June 16th nationwide release of the 3 month old March 13th Phoenix lights story? Did anyone in Phoenix happen to videotape this council session which was televised on a local cable station? It evidently had a video presentation documenting terrorist or militia activity. Ms Barwood said it was very dramatic and that she and other council members received numerous calls from citizens about this gov't video presentation. It was scary she said. Brian as Captain Picard says, "Make it so..." Richard S. Ralston WWW page: http://www.parrett.net/~rralston Wisdom should be cherished as a means of traveling from youth to old age, for it is more lasting than any other possession. - Bias of Priene (c. 570 B.C., one of the Seven Sages of ancient Greece) Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 | rralston |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Search for Alien Life Continues From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:59:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:42:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Search for Alien Life Continues > From: RSchatte@aol.com > Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:46:14 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Fwd: Search for Alien Life Continues > --------------------- > Forwarded message: > Subj: Search for Alien Life Continues > Date: 97-08-13 22:08:26 EDT > From: AOL News > .c The Associated Press > By RON HARRIS > MOUNTAIN VIEW, California (AP) - Is the truth really out there? > A handful of scientists listening intently for faint radio signals > from distant solar systems are keeping their ears, and minds, open > to that possibility. An interesting point to consider regarding the persistence of SETI-like programs is this: SETI represents a backdoor out of the cover-up. If legitimate signals can be detected, the issue of non-human intelligence can be introduced to our society with a minimum of initial shock. Having breached the key barrier, it would then be possible to back into the more disturbing truth of past and current non-human intelligence operating in our sphere. While a hoaxed SETI contact would essentially accomplish the same thing, such a hoax would be too difficult given the current level of scrutiny by the media and a strengthening UFO community. Steve Bassett
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 33 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:46:34 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 33 --------------------- UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 33 August 17, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor EAST DEVON TOWNS UNDER SIEGE BY UFOs Two towns in East Devon are the focus of the latest UFO flap in the UK. On Sunday, July 27, 1997, six people in the towns of Budleigh Salterton and Tiverton sighted UFOs. The following day, Monday, July 28, 1997, three people in East Devon reported them. By the week's end, Friday, August 1, 1997, a total of 17 UFO sightings had been reported in the two towns. The cases are being investigated by John Downes of the Exeter Strange Phenomena Research Group. On Monday, August 4, 1997, at about 10 p.m., accountant Tracey Wilson saw a UFO from her bedroom window in Tiverton. She reported, "I went to open the window and saw this large orange-and-white light moving across the sky. The light glowed for about two minutes, flashed brilliantly and then disappeared." Barry Payne, from Dawlish, near Exmouth, saw a mysterious light in the sky at 10:30 p.m. on Tuesday, August 5, 1997 while walking his dog. He reported, "I saw a bright azure and white light flying slowly above me. It seemed to zigzag a little, and I remember thinking it was headed north towards Exmouth." William Frazier-Jennings of Budleigh Salterton told the Western Daily Press that he saw a UFO on Sunday, August 10, 1997, at 9:30 p.m., adding, "It just appeared and moved slowly. I walked in to get my binoculars and saw it hover for about four minutes and then black out." (See the Western Daily Press of Bristol, England for August 12 and August 13, 1997. Many thanks to Andy Jepson for posting these news stories in USENET.) NEW UFO FLAP IN BRAZIL On Friday, August 8, 1997, at 9:30 p.m., glowing UFOs appeared over the small city of Riachao do Jacuite in the state of Bahia, in northern Brazil. Two dozen observers watched the lights hover for 30 seconds before flying off at high speed. Riachao do Jacuite is 200 kilometers (120 miles) northwest of Salvador, the capital of Bahia state. The sighting followed two days of UFO reports from Salvador itself. On Wednesday afternoon, August 6, 1997, pedestrians in Sao Caetano, a district in the northern end of the city, "saw a strange object floating in the sky." On Friday morning, August 8, 1997, witnesses saw "two opaque objects of great size, accompanied by 30 smaller disc-shaped objects, crossing the sky." The UFO formation moved from Sao Caetano westward over the Bahia de Todos os Santos (Bay of All Saints) to a large offshore island called Itaparica. The previous Saturday, August 2, 1997, "dozens of people" in the town of Nova Dias Daovila "saw a giant object" which they claim resembled "a fish emerging from a river." The UFO reportedly "danced in the sky" before flying away "over the Sertao." Brazilian ufologist Emanuel Paranhos gathered hundreds of eyewitness accounts of the flap, including UFO sightings in Biribeira, Cascalheira, Nascente and Areal. On Wednesday, August 6, Paranhos reported, "As it grew dark, an object appeared floating in the sky, in the east, and visited Pituba. Observers saw a brilliant green and violet light over the center of the city." (See the newspaper A Tarde of Salvador, Bahia for August 11, 1997. Muito obrigado a Pedro Cunha por eses casos.) SEASIDE UFO DAZZLES POLICE IN SUBURB OF LIMA, PERU On Monday, August 11, 1997, at 11:15 p.m., a UFO emerged from the cloudy skies over the Pacific Ocean and slowly overflew Magdalena del Mar, a seaside suburb of Lima, the capital of Peru. The UFO finally hovered at 300 meters (990 feet) above the ocean just offshore from Seguridad Ciudadana- Serenazgo, the central police station for Magdalena del Mar. A policeman on sentry duty noticed the hovering object and sounded the alarm. Responding to the call was a Policia Metropolitana cruiser, which parked in a shoreside soccer field. The officers trained their spotlight on the UFO, which they described as "an object with its own light, reddish in color, with a black point in the interior." Civilian witnesses also gathered in the soccer field and along the chainlink fence. (Like nearby San Isidro, Magdalena del Mar is on a cliff overlooking the ocean. Safety fences line the cliff's edge--J.T.) As the police officers observed the UFO with their binoculars, the object "moved in a diagonal fashion." They then left the field "for reasons of security," but soon returned, accompanied by other police cruisers. When they turned their spotlights on it, the UFO rapidly moved to a higher altitude and a little further out to sea. Then the UFO emitted "a powerful beam of light, which moved from left to right" along the shore, illuminating houses and the eight police cruisers in the field. Shortly after midnight, the Peruvian media arrived. As Lima TV crews trained their videocameras on it, the UFO "moved slowly and diagonally, and then it zigzagged," still remaining out at sea. The standoff continued until 3 a.m. when the UFO retreated westward into the Pacific Ocean. (Muchas gracias a Angel Araujo para esas noticias.) (Editor's Comment: The UFOs are striking close to home! I used to live on the Avenida Petit Thouars in Lince, less than five miles from Magdalena del Mar, back in the 1970s.) STRANGE LIGHTS SEEN IN SANTIAGO DE CHILE On Wednesday, July 15, 1997, at 2 a.m., Rodrigo Fuenzalida, president of AION, the Chilean UFO study group, and astronomer Carlos Ibanez were guests on the nighttime talk show "Radio Mineira" when they received a UFO report from a listener. The caller reported "some strange lights in the sector of Lo Canas" that were "glowing, turning on and off very slowly. This light also made some very fast movements." "After awhile, it split into two lights," Fuenzalida reported. "They flashed and turned on and off for a while. Then the second light split in two, and there were three lights blinking on and off. Then the third light split in two, making it four lights." Fuenzalida said over 30 people witnessed the spectacle from the roof of the radio station before the lights vanished at 5 a.m. (Muchas gracias a Luis Sanchez Perry para esas noticias.) SHARP-EYED VIEWER SPIES UFO ON NASA SHUTTLE VIDEO On Sunday, August 10, 1997, at around 9:45 a.m., Randy S. of Austin, Texas "was watching TV and switched to the NASA Channel for news of the ongoing (Discovery) shuttle mission." "At the time they were broadcasting a nighttime view of Earth," Randy reported. "As I watched, I was surprised to see a light rising vertically from the bottom of the screen where the Earth was displayed. As it rose vertically, the shuttle camera began to track the light and kept the picture centered on it." "After it rose well above the horizon of the Earth, the light made an apparent 90-degree turn to the right and continued off in that direction. The shuttle camera continued to track the object and began to zoom in for a closer look. At that point, NASA cut off the (live) feed from the external camera and displayed the Houston Space Center instead." "Unfortunately, I wasn't prepared to record this on my VCR," he added. "The entire episode lasted less than a minute, so I was unable to get the VCR ready in time." (Many thanks to Tim Hagemeister of NACOMM for this story.) MANITOWOC UFO FLAP ENTERS ITS SECOND WEEK Manitowoc County in Wisconsin reported its second week of UFO sightings, with two in the vicinity of County Highway G. Manitowoc (population 32,547), a port city on Lake Michigan, is approximately 82 miles (131 kilometers) north of Milwaukee. The area has a long history of UFO activity dating back to the "airship sensation" of 1897. On Saturday, August 9, 1997, a Franklin man and his two sons "spotted it (a UFO) from their van while driving north (at) about 11:35 p.m. on County Highway G south of Maple Grove. The UFO hovered silently in the sky for about 15 seconds over a woods, then descended rapidly, almost as if crashing, he told the Manitowoc, Wisconsin Herald Times Reporter. He described the UFO as "large and triangular with three reddish-orange lights." "It was the strangest thing," he said, "There was no sound. Not a cricket, not a dog, not a frog. Nothing." At 11:55 p.m., the man's family "was sitting in its living room when his daughter saw the second UFO." This was another triangular UFO with "rounded corners but with the same reddish-orange lights. It hovered for a few minutes, then disappeared as quickly as the first." "I should have run and got the 35mm camera. But I was so awestruck by it," he said. (See the Manitowoc, Wisconsin Herald Times Reporter for August 8, 1997. Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for this story.) RESEARCHER VIDEOTAPES UFO IN BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA UFOs returned to Bloomington, Indiana (population 51,646) for the third time this year last week, but the local ufologists were ready for them. The city, located 51 miles (83 kilometers) southwest of Indianapolis, was visited by UFOs "every night last week," according to local ufologist Lynn Taylor. "My daughter Jana and I saw something almost every night last week, outside our home north of Bloomington," Taylor reported. "On Thursday evening just after 1 a.m. (actually Friday, August 8, 1997) I was able to get a video of a yellow/orange light, as it floated silently over the trees south of my house. It moved east to west, then changed course and headed north. I saw some mighty strange aircraft, as well. Two had a bright white 'headlight' in front, with a long red light (more like a red line of light) trailing. It had a jet engine noise, but was very quiet." "Another aircraft, on a previous night, had five white lights arranged in an arc, or 'bow' fashion, with a red light in the center of the plane. I believe it may have had a dim white light in the rear. Again, it was very quiet." (Copyright 1997 by Lynn Taylor, all rights reserved. Many thanks, Lynn, for letting UFO ROUNDUP quote from your report.) PACACCINI INVESTIGATES UFO CRASH IN NOVA BRASILANDIA Brazilian ufologist Vitorio Pacaccini recently returned from a trip to Cuiaba, capital of Mato Grosso state. While in Cuiaba, he learned some new facts about the reported UFO crash in the Serra Azul, 70 kilometers (42 miles) from Nova Brazilandia. Pacaccini, who lives in Belo Horizonte, M.G., is best known as the investigator who publicized the UFO crash and retrieval at Vargniha, M.G. on January 20, 1996. His book on the incident, O CASO VARGINHA, was published last April in Brazil. His first stop was the national capital, Brasilia, where he spoke with "some friends in the Army Command." They "assured me that nothing 'fell' from the skies. It was 'shot down.' The object was first detected by CINDACTA (Brazil's NORAD-J.T.) on July 1, and the defense people are kind of in a red alert. In his words, 'They are sleeping with one eye open these days.'" Pacaccini also learned that the Servico Inteligencia do Exercito (Military Intelligence Service, a.k.a. S-2) "took care of the whole thing quickly." According to his sources, S-2 retrieved and removed the crashed saucer from Divino Fogoio's Bela Vista farm between July 3 and July 22, the day Pacaccini arrived in Brasilia. Flying to Cuiaba, Pacaccini visited a retired Army captain and his family. The captain issued a blunt warning. "Don't go to that area," he told Pacaccini. "They know who you are. They don't want the UFO-marketing TV boy sniffing around there." The captain said there was "nothing there any more. The farm caretaker (Gilberto Braga) is now denying everything. The farm owner (Divino Fogoio) is always traveling--that's what they say if you ask for him. There are several disguised S-2 agents around (the farm), carrying guns...If you ask for help out there, there won't be many people to listen to you. You'll be an easy target." Pacaccini also learned that someone had been planting false "crash stories" in other towns around Mato Grosso, such as Rosario Oeste, Arruda and Marzagao. Pacaccini admitted that he had returned "with empty hands (but) at least I tried to do something." He added, "If we had had someone (a ufologist) close to that area (on July 1), things would have been quite different." CADBOROSAURUS SURFACES OFF BRITISH COLUMBIA Cadborosaurus, British Columbia's seagoing dinosaur, was seen twice during July by a family in Mill Bay, B.C. Timothy and Laurice Mock, and their 14-year-old son, Christopher, were cruising up Pricess Louisa Inlet in their 24-foot powerboat. "Laurice was scanning the shoreline for bears while Tim was at the wheel, watching for logs. The sea was glassy, and since the sun had not risen above the mountains, the channel was still in shade. Tim noticed a large log up ahead and altered his course accordingly. Suddenly, the 'log' split into three pieces." "'As we ran past it, it disappeared,' Tim said, 'And all that was left was a swirl in the water, a mini- whirlpool. The log was gone.'" The second July sighting occurred as the Mocks "were dropping anchor near Homfray Channel, adjacent to Desolation Sound. Once again, the sea was flat calm and the surrounding water was exceptionally deep-- in some places up to 700 meters (2,310 feet)." "'We were dropping anchor, and we were all on the foredeck. We had been poking along in the area for hours with no traffic," said Tim. Son Christopher said, 'What's that at the entrance?' When he looked up, Tim saw an unusual wake going back and forth with a parallel set moving along beside it." "'It was weird. It (the wake) wasn't diminishing, and it wasn't in the direction it should have been. It was going along the shore rather than towards it.'" Then Laurice Mock got a close look at the creature with her binoculars. "I got a good look at it," she said, "It had its head close to the water. It was like someone doing the breast stroke, like a snake." Dr. Ed Bousfield, a retired cryptozoologist with the Royal British Columbia Museum, calls Cadborosaurus "a Mesozoic relic" and believes "the females come to shores of shallow estuaries to bear live young (similar to garter snakes.)" Dr. Bousfield has collected over 200 accounts of Cadborosaurus sightings over the years. (See the Victoria, B.C. Times-Colonist for August 9, 1997. Many thanks to Loren Coleman and Brian Chapman for this news article.) BIGFOOT PROWLS STREET IN SIOUX CITY, IOWA Residents of 17th Street in the Northside section of Sioux City, Iowa (population 82,003) reported hearing strange noises and finding Bigfoot tracks in their yards every night last week. Lori Gabriel, who lives at 616 17th Street, said she "usually hears the noises from midnight to 5 a.m." "The last four or five nights we have heard branches breaking, and there have been big footprints everywhere," she said. "Now I have found three different sets of footprints. It looked like Bigfoot, his wife, and Baby Bigfoot might have made them, like they were standing next to each other." Although Ms. Gabriel hasn't seen Bigfoot, one of her tenants has. "Jeremy Corbin reported to the Sioux City Police Department Wednesday night (August 6, 1997) that he saw Bigfoot standing in front of his first-floor window. He said the animal was taller than 7 feet (2.5 meters) with reddish-brown hair." "'I woke up about 5 a.m., and I saw this huge thing outside my window. It had its back to me, and I did not get a good glimpse of it because I did not have my glasses on. I had to squint to see it well, then it just disappeared,' he said." "Gabriel also believes that Bigfoot is the one who has been letting her dog off the leash at night." (See the Sioux City, Iowa, Journal for August 9, 1997. "Bigfoot and Family Visit Northside" by Jennifer Palmer, page A-8. Many thanks to Henry Franzon and Nathan Hetzel for forwarding this story.) from the UFO Files... 1909: SOUTH ISLAND REPORTS SEVERAL SIGHTINGS (Here are some more items from the little-known New Zealand "airship flap" of July 1909. Again, many thanks to New Zealand ufologist Murray Bott for sending us these items.) On July 31, 1909, there was a UFO incident during the early morning hours at Greenvale, near Gore, South Island, N.Z. While feeding the horses, a Greenvale farmhand "heard a strange whirring sound which frightened the animals. On looking out, he saw an airship overhead about 150 feet long. It had head and tail lights and was moving so fast that, when he woke up his mates, the lights were faint in the distance. (See the Matsura Ensign of Gore, N.Z. for August 1, 1909.) Also, early that morning, a resident of Grosvenor Street in Dunedin "reported seeing an airship. At one stage, he saw a light (bright yellow) shoot up what looked like a mast and stay at the top." (See the Dunedin, N.Z. Star for August 2, 1909.) The afternoon of July 31, 1909, a resident of Fairfax "reported seeing an airship while he was at Akatore. At 4:55 p.m., he saw a dark object shoot over the brow of the hills in the east and rapidly climb towards the west. He got a side view of the object which he described as cigar-shaped but bulkier, with a box-like structure underneath in the centre." (See the Bruce Herald for August 2, 1909.) NOTE TO ALL ROUNDUP READERS: The next issue of UFO ROUNDUP, volume 2, number 34, will appear on Thursday, August 21, 1997. The newsletter will then go on its annual hiatus for three weeks. Publication will resume on Sunday, September 14, 1997 with number 35. This week, our readers in India are celebrating fifty years of independence. Oddly enough, tomorrow, August 18, marks the birthday of one of the most remarkable women in India's history. Born in 1900, Vijaya Lakshmi Pandit was the first woman to become prime minister of Uttar Pradesh state in India. Happy birthday, Vijaya! We'll be back...on Thursday, remember...with more saucer news. Here's wishing you all an enjoyable week from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any item from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Message to the Moon From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:58:31 -0400 Subject: Message to the Moon This message was forwarded to me. I don't know the originator as that had all been stripped from the message. It's not a story I had heard before and I don't of its truth, but I offer it for your amusement. Forwarded... ----------------------------------- Subject: Space Story Property Rights About 1966 or so, a NASA team doing work for the Apollo moon mission took the astronauts near Tuba City where the terrain of the Navajo Reservation looks very much like the Lunar surface. Along with all the trucks and large vehicles, there were two large figures dressed in full Lunar spacesuits. Nearby a Navajo sheep herder and his son were watching the strange creatures walk about, occasionally being tended by personnel. The two Navajo people were noticed and approached by the NASA personnel. Since the man did not know English, his son asked for him what the strange creatures were and the NASA people told them that they are just men that are getting ready to go to the moon. The man became very excited and asked if he could send a message to the moon with the astronauts. The NASA personnel thought this was a great idea so they rustled up a tape recorder. After the man gave them his message, they asked his son to translate. His son would not. Later, they tried a few more people on the reservation to translate and every person they asked would chuckle and then refuse to translate. Finally, with cash in hand, someone translated the message, "Watch out for these guys, they come to take your land." ____________________________________________ [Rebecca, here's what I found in my archivers - ebk] From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Organization: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL To: "Mailing list 1" <skywatch@wic.net>, Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:38:41 -0700 Subject: Skywatch: a codetalker speaks ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:30:57 -0400 From: KTMNFL@aol.com To: skywatch@wic.net@wic.net Subject: Fwd: a codetalker speaks --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: a codetalker speaks Date: 96-09-27 13:56:36 EDT A few months before the 1st Apollo moonwalk, a NASA team travelled to the painted desert north of Tuba City AZ; the terrain there looks much like the Lunar surface. Along with all the vehicles and equipment came two large figures dressed in spacesuits. From some distance an aged Navajo and his son watched as the space-suited pair walked about. The two Navajos were noticed and approached by the NASA folks. The son declared that the old one, who spoke in the old tongue only, had asked in that tongue what the space-suited pair was up to. A NASA spokesperson [back then alas called a spokesMAN] explained that they were getting ready to go to the moon. This news greatly excited the old man; his son said he wanted to know if they would carry a message from him to the moon. The NASA folks thought this was a great idea. After the old man had spoken into their tape recorder, his son was asked to translate...but could not...or would not. Similar efforts with other Navajos failed also... until at last a fistful of dollars wangled this translation: "Watch out for these guys, they come to take your land." relayed by djoakes@aol.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: rschatte | skywatch |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:01:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' In a message dated 97-08-17 13:20:41 EDT, you write: > The well-known photograph of Major Marcel holding 'flying saucer' > wreckage, which he claimed was "some of the less-interesting metallic > debris", should perhaps on its own be sufficient to explain what > Marcel had found. > That aside, at the bottom left-hand corner of the photograph, is Dr > Marcel's "i-beam with 'hieroglyphics'" visible? > This section of the photograph, plus an enlargement, are now on my web > site under URL: > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/i-beam.jpg > Could be? Or do I need glasses. Try new glasses, or at least look at the other photos for comparison. In particular, check the other photo of Marcel. Your "I-beam" in the one photo is nothing more than the photographically cropped end of one of a number of sticks lying on the ground. The stick in question is about 2 feet long, very un-I-beam like, and has a few dark splotches on it, but nothing resembling "hieroglyphics." David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Florida Today: Some Look To Bible For Answers To From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:33:36 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:03:11 -0400 Subject: Florida Today: Some Look To Bible For Answers To Found at: http://www.flatoday.com:80/space/today/081797b.htm FLORIDA TODAY Space Online For August 17, 1997 Spiritual warfare? Some look to Bible for answers to alien abductions By Rita Elkins FLORIDA TODAY CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. - Imagine that alien abduction experiences and demons are equally real. Hey, we said it'd be tough. But you were halfway there watching the recent movie, "Fire in the Sky," right? One more step and you're in the strange and trendy world of UfOlogy theology, where extraterrestrials could be even scarier than you think. Odd as it sounds, the spiritual life of aliens is being taken seriously in wide-ranging discussions among religious leaders. Magazine articles, books and even evangelists are engaging in Bible-based speculations about the nature and intention of entities that allegedly kidnap, paralyze, physically abuse and sometimes sexually molest victims - many of whom, more strangely still, come to believe the experience was worthwhile. Religious leaders are alarmed about a growing train of thought that "wants us to reject traditional Judeo-Christian ideas about God" in favor of benign "Space Brothers" who will save humanity from itself, writes journalist William M. Alnor in his book, "UFOs in the New Age" (Baker, Grand Rapids, Mich.). Alnor concludes this new belief is a set-up for apocalyptic deceptions predicted in the Bible's Book of Revelation. He's not alone. "The similarity between the abduction experience and demonic possession is very, very close," says Joe Jordan of Cocoa, Brevard/Volusia state director for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), a widely respected clearinghouse for UFO-related research. "These (alien contact) experiences these people are having are real. It does exist. But you just need to understand what's doing it." Jordan and his partner, Wes Clark, have begun a research group called CE-4 (close encounters of the fourth kind, i.e. abductions), dedicated to studying alleged alien abductions. Its 15 members also belong to MUFON, but "nothing we do is necessarily sanctioned by them," says Clark, a quality control engineer at Kennedy Space Center. MUFON principals did not respond to inquiries about CE-4's unusual hypothesis, summarized by Jordan: "This whole thing is spiritual warfare. And the method the enemy's using is deception. Strong deception." In other words, entities really are abducting people against their will. Only, they're not aliens from other planets. They're demons from the pit of hell. Stop in the name of ... Joe Jordan is addressing a "New Millenium Symposium" in Titusville. With his intense brown eyes and shoulder-length hair, he mingles easily with New Age folks who paid $44 to study pyramids, Mayan dreamspells, Lakota prophecies, and to hear Jordan's talk about "UFO Abductions." Jordan, who works in product development and engineering for Sea Ray Boats, speaks calmly, his voice firm, with good grammar and diction. Kooks don't get to be state directors with science-oriented MUFON, for whom he has chased lights for seven years. Last year he focused on CE-4 research, and encountered a Central Florida abductee whose otherwise-typical experience had one unique aspect. "They had stopped the experience while it was happening. In all the time I've been researching, I'd never heard that before." Jordan punches buttons on a tape recorder. A nameless, 30-something man with an intelligent-sounding voice, slightly Southern, tells his story. Calmly, at first. There were strange lights in a nearby woods at bedtime, barking dogs. He is up and down a few times, yelling at the dogs while his wife sleeps soundly. Then, lying down again ... "I couldn't move ... gray fog. I couldn't see anything, but it was like someone was there." He felt himself lifted off the bed. "I was terrified, so helpless ... screaming inside, but I couldn't get it out." The voice is less calm now, but still certain, not hesitant. "I thought I was having a satanic experience, that the devil had gotten hold of me and had shoved a pole up my rectum and was holding me up in the air ... so helpless. I couldn't do anything." A non-religious person, he'd been to church with his wife a few times. "I said, `Jesus, Jesus, help me,' or, `Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!' And when I did, there was a feeling or a sound or something. That either my words that I had thought, or the words that I had tried to say or whatever, hurt whatever was holding me up in the air on this pole. "And I felt like it was withdrawn, and I fell. I hit the bed, because it was like I was thrown back in the bed. I really can't tell what it was. But when I did, my wife woke up and asked why I was jumping on the bed." Yeah, but ... Relentless anonymity is a given in abduction research. Nobody in their right mind wants family, friends and co-workers to know they've had their personal space violated against their will by strange-looking creatures whose existence isn't even proven. So they can't give names. But Jordan and Clark swear they have three verifiable cases in which apparent abduction experiences were halted by believers who called on the name of Jesus. And Jordan says as many as 400 cases may be documentable nationwide. "It makes you wonder: If these beings are extra-terrestrial at all, why would they respond to that name?" Jordan asks. "We think we found the answer in the Bible, in Mark 16:17 where Jesus said, `In my name, they shall cast out demons.' That seems to be exactly what we came across." Three major researchers told Jordan, off the record, that they had similar cases. But "they were afraid for their credibility," he says. "They felt they already had put their credentials out far enough dealing with extra-terrestrials." Other "so-called researchers (are) sitting on this information," Jordan says. "There's something wrong there. They're just as bad as the people they say have conspiracies in other ways." Why would anyone suppress such research findings? Jordan, who became a Christian last year, says most UFOlogists share his former New Age beliefs, which dismiss Christianity and Judaism. "These people go from one thing to another looking for development of a higher consciousness," he says. Anyplace but in traditional religion. Stranger still An estimated 40 percent of Americans say they believe aliens have visited Earth. More than a million people worldwide claim CE-4 experiences. Still, mainstream Christianity mostly sidestepped the issue - until March's mass suicide at Heaven's Gate showed just how misleading some alien link-thinking could be. Suddenly, the religious press is full of articles about UFOs. The May cover story in Central Florida's "Discovery Christian" newspaper focused on UFOlogy theology, interviewing Berkeley-trained scientist and Christian author John Weldon. That was reprinted from Rutherford Institute's nationally-distributed October newsletter. Even Jewish believers are connecting UFO experiences with the Torah, or Jewish Bible. "Many serious people who have been studying UFOs around the world have reached the consensus that the Bible is a convincing UFO story," said journalist Barry Charnish, quoted in a chapter titled "UFOs in the Holy Land" from "Sightings: UFOs", by television writer Susan Michaels (Simon & Schuster, New York, due out in September). July's Charisma magazine, a 200,000-plus circulation monthly, featured Christian evangelist and author Paul McGuire's article, "Alien Invaders." McGuire cites the evolution of popular New Age author Whitley Streiber's interests - from his first alien contacts in "Communion", "Transformation" and "Breakthrough" to his latest titles, "The Secret School: Preparations for Contact" and "Evenings with Demons" - as an example of a progressive deception. Indeed, Streiber fans often comment - albeit positively - on their favorite author's change. From experiencing his first alien encounters as terrifying and torturous, he began to seek them out and welcome them, finally advocating them as a religious experience. That, say religious leaders, indicates a deceptive entity is at work. "Both the seemingly benign and the hostile entities ... will play an increasing role in preparing a segment of humanity for the reception of the Antichrist," writes bestselling author David Allen Lewis and Robert Shreckhise in "UFO End-Time Delusion." And the cover of "The Agenda, The Real Reason They're Here" gives this premise: "In the near future, God will evacuate millions of people from the horrors to follow. Aliens will take the credit" for the Rapture (when Christians will be supernaturally airlifted to heaven), writes B. Fox, a MUFON researcher who resides in-of all places-Roswell, New Mexico. Back in Titusville at the CE-4 office in Wes Clark's home, Joe Jordan and Clark continue to study, research and solicit abductees through the Internet and with classified ads in MUFON's UFO Journal. "The one thing we can offer people in this field, that nobody else elsewhere is offering, is hope. Hope that they can stop this experience," Jordan says. "We're still researchers. It's not conclusive. But this is what we have so far." To contact CE-4 Research Group, call 631-4393 or via wclark59@bv.net e-mail. Please e-mail comments or questions to FLORIDA TODAY's Space Online office. (Comment: the address is:) mailto:mdecotis@flatoday.infi.net This World Wide Web site is copyright =A9 1997, FLORIDA TODAY. Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | wclark59
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED! Fraud? From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:38:37 -0400 Subject: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED! Fraud? From: "Paul E. Pettennude" <pettennude@usa.net> I am an underwater archaeologist based in Miami, Florida and Director of the Maya Underwater Research Center which is affiliated with the University of Miami and Florida International University. Mr. DuVal's report is bogus. We have been extensively diving the Bimini area for over 30 years and NO evidence has turned up. We have brought this to the attention of the Museum of Science in Miami and they are quite displeased with the whole affair. It is definitely fraud. Paul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Kaeser's Response to Rebecca From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:41:48 -0400 Subject: Kaeser's Response to Rebecca > Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Rebecca Rants > Date: 97-08-16 16:41:29 EDT > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:25:24 -0400 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Rebecca Rants > > >From: XianneKei@aol.com > >Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:19:33 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > snip > It would seem that some form of self-regulation is in order, but an > infastructure doesn't exist within the genre to impose it. snip > Steve > Actually, Steve, I would disagree here. The infrastructure has been there for some time - not the will or the money to implement. Needed infrastructure: Scientific Association Defined Research Projects National Network Peer Review Journal Media Contacts/Outlets Lobbying Group If you sift through the various organizations and groups within the larger community, you will find candidates for these slots. This structure will come of age when the UFO community as a whole commits to that goal, closes ranks, and goes out and gets the money to follow through on that goal. I'll fill in some slots and invite others to do the same. Scientific Association: MUFON, Defined Research Projects: PEER, FIRST, Enterprise Mission National Network (public): MUFON Peer Review Journal: MUFON Journal, Media Contacts/Outlets Winkler, Carter, Davids, C.D.B. Bryan, Blume, Achenbach, Richtel, Bell, Lee, TLC Lobbying Groups: Paradigm Research Group, Operation Right to Know, I would suggest a UFO/Extraterrestrial Phenomena Research summit held in Washington, DC in which every operating member of the community meet in plenary session to define this infrastructure and discuss the means by which it will be supported and financed. The coming together of the larger UFO research community does not mean the end to scientific debate. Rather, it will represent the essential and inevitable acceptance of the importance of the issues at stake as opposed to the grievances, grudges, and aspirations of individual members and organizations. Stephen Bassett Paradigm Research Group P.S. My compliments to Rebecca for initiating a very stimulating and useful thread. Search for other documents from or mentioning: sgblist2 | steve |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Rebecca's Response to Bassett From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 16:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:48:32 -0400 Subject: Rebecca's Response to Bassett From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:41:48 -0400 Subject: Kaeser's Response to Rebecca > Actually, Steve, I would disagree here. The infrastructure has been there > for some time - not the will or the money to implement. This makes sense to me. I appreciate the thought that went into your suggestions. It can't hurt to have the things you list; however, if you are not aware there exists a peer review journal already (no reason why we can't have another) and that is the Journal of UFO Studies put out by CUFOS. JUFOS isn't published as often as I would like to see it, but I bet that is from a lack of submissions, and not necessarily related to the quality of them. I am also reminded of the Journal of Scientific Exploration, though it is not necessarily devoted to UFOs. > If you sift through the various organizations and groups within the larger > community, you will find candidates for these slots. This structure will > come of age when the UFO community as a whole commits to that goal, closes > ranks, and goes out and gets the money to follow through on that goal. > I'll fill in some slots and invite others to do the same. What do you mean by "closes ranks?" > Scientific Association: MUFON, As a MUFON member I appreciate your inclusion of the organization; however I think CUFOS would need to be included as well as FUFOR. > Defined Research Projects: PEER, FIRST, Enterprise Mission This suggestion troubles me greatly. It's pretty obvious that I do not care for FIRST and frankly, I don't know to many people in the field whom I respect, who disagree with me. What makes you want to include them? As far as I can tell FIRST hasn't accomplished much other than making lots of noise asking for donations, implants and artifacts. Their follow-up with some of the abductees they have worked with could best be described as lackadaisical to non-existent. If you have different information, I would appreciate hearing it. The Enterprise Mission has certainly proposed some interesting ideas; however, the limbs that Richard Hoagland has gone out on recently, while entertaining, appear to me to be far from scientific. I honestly don't know much about PEER. Working within the parameters you set up, I would much rather see a select committe of individuals defining reseach proposals and guidelines. My committee would more than likely not include Derrel Sims, Roger Leir, or Richard Hoagland. Judging by your selection here, I think this needs to be more to the point. Are we going to scientifically study UFOs or alien abductions, and the artifacts in space? I think a clearer goal is called for. I would tend to leave out abductions for the time being. I'd probably leave out the artifacts in space as well. > National Network (public): MUFON I think CUFOS agaian would have to be included here. > Peer Review Journal: MUFON Journal, JUFOS, IUR. > Media Contacts/Outlets Winkler, Carter, Davids, > C.D.B. Bryan, Blume, Achenbach, > Richtel, Bell, Lee, TLC ACK! Henry Winkler, I can see. Chris Carter is basically a nonbeliever, IMO. Paul Davids has shown a distinct lack of discretion with the recent fiasco in Roswell. He's too much a maverick. Bryan is an interesting choice. Blume, according to one of my sources is totally not interested seriously in UFOs any longer and believes he was totally lied to for his book "Out There." Never heard of Richtel or Lee. Bell, is a definite out. Lee I never heard of. Who are Lee and Richtel? I think there are plenty of candidates for media contact and outlets, and one person, whom I don't know a lot of about, but I would like to know more and see if he could help would be Jack Anderson. > Lobbying Groups: Paradigm Research Group, > Operation Right to Know, Stephen, I don't know anything about your group, but I don't think ORTK belongs here. Maybe someday, but they need to get their act together. > I would suggest a UFO/Extraterrestrial Phenomena Research summit held in > Washington, DC in which every operating member of the community meet in > plenary session to define this infrastructure and discuss the means by > which it will be supported and financed. Something like that would definitely be needed. I just see A LOT of hurdles to jump over first as well as a more clearly defined agenda. > My compliments to Rebecca for initiating a very stimulating and useful > thread. Thanks, Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: The 'Truth' About Roswell From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:17:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:50:26 -0400 Subject: Re: The 'Truth' About Roswell At 09:26 AM 08/16/97 -0400, EBK DID SO write: >From: RTodd12191@aol.com [Robert Todd] >Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:12:35 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: The Truth About Roswell >[Thag you. Thag you ver mush - ebk] >Attachment Converted: "C:\Program Files\eudora\Attach\MARCEL.jpg" Hahaha! Now THAT is truly funny. Lessee, now where did I stick that silly "Derril Sims, Alien Hunter" cartoon....hmmm. If I can dig it up out the dusty archives, look out List! :-) Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Bursting the Balloon - CORRECTION From: RTodd12191@aol.com [Robert Todd] Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 19:11:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Bursting the Balloon - CORRECTION Subj: Bursting the Baloney - Rudiak the Lying King Date: 08/12/97 To: updates@globalserve.net > From: DRudiak@aol.com > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 15:18:30 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Bursting the Balloon, Pflock (2) >>From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] > >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:00:37 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bursting the Balloon << In my previous posting on this subject, I incorrectly identified General Schulgen by saying he: > . . .headed the intelligence Collection Branch within the office > of the Assistant Chief of Air Staff-2, Intelligence . . . < In fact, General Schulgen was the Chief of the Air Intelligence Requirements Division, of which the Collection Branch was a component. I sincerely apologize to all for my faulty memory. I can only assume that, fifty years from now, my memory will be flawless. Robert Todd Search for other documents from or mentioning: rtodd12191 | drudiak |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:18:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:10:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso Regarding... >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso Jim wrote: >>There's a copy of the enhanced, aforementioned image on my web site >>at: >> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/meier.jpg >>What's that thread-like object the Type-4 seems to be suspended >>from, Jim? >Just visited that picture on your site. Now that's the way a support >line to a model UFO is supposed to look! Jim, Well, yes, precisely! >On your site you didn't show the full picture the enlarged >"enhancement" came from, and you say it came from GSW? The image was taken from a lengthy article published in "The Alien World", which originated as part of a magazine series called "The Unexplained". "The Alien World" was edited by a certain Peter Brookesmith. I can scan the full image if you like, although you will probably know it if I add some more details. It shows a solitary "type-4 spacecraft over Mount Auruti, Switzerland, photographed by Billy Meier on 29 March 1976". >So if it was GSW who acquired the photo you showed a piece of, it >could have been of 6th, 8th or higher generation. Unfortunately, it doesn't say, although it's perhaps of no consequence if there remains evidence of a model suspended by a thread. >One really does need to know who did the photo retouching or >enhancing, when it comes to a case examined by ufologists who don't >accept contactees under any circumstances, since they feel their >reputations, if not their entire belief systems, would fall if they >don't show the photograph to look like a hoax. Spaulding is on >record many years back as saying that all UFOs are fakes except for >those our (or other?) governments have constructed. It isn't necessary to question Spaulding's honesty to make sense of the Meier photographs. There's sufficient evidence available in general to form a conclusion. The enhanced image indicating a hoaxed photograph isn't perhaps well known and it was referenced in response to your point about no evidence for "a suspension line for a UFO model". I'm not sure if there was one in the photograph which you disputed Korff's analysis of, but it seems there is such evidence in this case. >I don't see any way of making progress in this respect, for those who >don't wish to accept the uncontrovertible evidence that certain of >Meier's photos/films could not have been hoaxed... Even with clear indications that some of the photographs show models or superimposed images, there's always the argument that not all of them are hoaxed and it's all so far removed from scientifically acceptable evidence, it won't advance a significant interest in the subject as a worthwhile field of scientific research. It's questionable if anything ever will, but certainly not any of the Meier photographs or the claims which come with them. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:20:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:25:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' Regarding... >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:32:09 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' Dave Rudiak wrote: >> Could be? Or do I need glasses. >Try new glasses, or at least look at the other photos for comparison. >In particular, check the other photo of Marcel. Dave, The only scanned copy I have of the other Marcel photo isn't of sufficient image resolution to use - an enlargement loses the detail. If there is a high-res copy of that photo on a web site, I would be interested. I know that the Fort Worth Star-Telegram photograph collection has a enlarged copy of the Ramey-Dubose photo, but that's all. >The stick in question is about 2 feet long, very un-I-beam like, and >has a few dark splotches on it, but nothing resembling >"hieroglyphics." I couldn't make a direct comparison between a reasonable quality enlargement of the cropped "stick" and the other photograph with Marcel. If anyone can help in locating a suitable copy of the other photograph, it would be appreciated. Just curious what the opinion was on this and wouldn't mind looking at it further. The (unfortunately) cropped hi-res image does arguably resemble an "i-beam" and the "splotches" were what caught my eye. The photographs which were taken are important evidence. As we know, Major Marcel claimed that the photographs showing himself holding the debris were not staged; that was part of the "flying saucer" wreckage. Wasn't there subsequently some reason for doubting this? Obviously if there isn't, it limits the controversy. That's the "flying disc" captured on film. Is it agreed that all the photographs show the same debris, i.e., it wasn't then switched as Marcel also claimed? Maybe we could agree on what the actual significance of these photographs is. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Blanchard and LeMay From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:22:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:28:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Blanchard and LeMay Regarding... >From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:56:52 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Blanchard and LeMay Karl wrote: >>"There were some cases we could not explain," LeMay emphasized. >>"Repeat again. Never could". >First of all, I wonder why Keyhoe phrased this as he did, as the >quoted material is from a rather lengthy discussion of UFOs included >in LeMay's autobiog. Karl, I wondered if the autobiography even mentioned the subject, but if it goes into it in some detail, that's of great interest. As you may appreciate, LeMay was an icon of American military history and was credited with the successful evolution of Strategic Air Command. He surely would have been aware of "dark secrets" which were being kept from the public on the subject of UFOs. The fact that he was apparently puzzled by some cases seems to say that even at his level, there was still a degree of uncertainty about the issue. >I don't have the LeMay book in my library--borrowed it from an >associate when doing my research. He's sending me photocopies of >the relevant pages, and I'll post the exact text here when I receive >same. I'm sure that's appreciated by everyone. >Ironic tale on myself: When going thru the book, I was so focused >on Blanchard, I didn't think to look for refs. to UFOs. I'm surprised it's there. We might perhaps have expected someone of LeMay's standing to have avoided the "silly UFO nonsense". It wasn't _all_ nonsense of course and it will be interesting to see what he had to say on this. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Kaeser's response to Bassett From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:51:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:35:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Kaeser's response to Bassett >From: SGBList2@aol.com >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:07:05 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Kaeser's Response to Rebecca >> Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Rebecca Rants >> Date: 97-08-16 16:41:29 EDT >> From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:25:24 -0400 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Rebecca Rants >> >From: XianneKei@aol.com >> >Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:19:33 -0400 (EDT) >> >To: updates@globalserve.net >> >Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants >snip >> It would seem that some form of self-regulation is in order, but an >> infastructure doesn't exist within the genre to impose it. >snip >> Steve >Actually, Steve, I would disagree here. The infrastructure has been there for >some time - not the will or the money to implement. [text deleted for brevity] >If you sift through the various organizations and groups within the larger >community, you will find candidates for these slots. This structure will >come of age when the UFO community as a whole commits to that goal, closes >ranks, and goes out and gets the money to follow through on that goal. I'll >fill in some slots and invite others to do the same. >Scientific Association: MUFON, >Defined Research Projects: PEER, FIRST, Enterprise Mission >National Network (public): MUFON >Peer Review Journal: MUFON Journal, >Media Contacts/Outlets Winkler, Carter, Davids, > C.D.B. Bryan, Blume, Achenbach, > Richtel, Bell, Lee, TLC >Lobbying Groups: Paradigm Research Group, > Operation Right to Know, [text deleted for brevity] Are you sure you could get those on your list to sit still and come up with a common definition of what is being investigated? While MUFON has the Journal, I would suggest that CUFOS and FUFOR should not be left out of your equation. Indeed, the "Scientific Association" should probably be listed as UFORC (the UFO Research Coalition), which is comprised of all three. But the UFORC has recently taken another research group to task on the "net", and through legal means, because of alleged copyright infringement. We don't need to re-open the discussion of that situation, but I think it shows how deep some of the divisions in this genre go. I would note that there are many who believe the MUFON Journal to be too conservative in its approach, so I'm not sure you would be able to get the entire genre to accept it as the definative Journal for the field. Ufology also tends to be a "science without borders", and yet all of the names mentioned above are (I believe) from the U.S. Given the nature of ufology on the "net", I doubt that would work. The goal is a good one, and certainly one that we should strive to achieve. However, one has to go into it with their eyes open and without false expectations. IMHO, ufology has become so much more than the simple examination of unknown lights in the sky that it has become very difficult to define. That lack of definition will (in turn) make it difficult to establish some sort of peer review process. Those who find themselves on the short end of a "review" will simply set up their tent outside the main camp and sell their snake oil to the tourists from there. By simply explaining that those on the inside are truly part of the "conspiracy of silence", the snake oil salesman becomes a hero in search of "truth", and credibility of the genre takes it on the chin (again). But let's take this one step further. Suppose a peer review council was to be formed, which would review research and seek to establish credibility for the field of UFOlogy. Who would you propose for inclusion in this "council"? While most Journals have smaller review groups to review submissions, let's assume that this UFOlogy "council" has twelve members. I would be interested to see if a list of twelve names can be developed that a majority of those on "Updates" could agree to. Of course that's only one small segment of the UFOlogy on the "net", but I believe that it will serve the purpose.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Rebecca's Rant - Journals From: dstacy@texas.net (Dennis Stacy) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 22:41:52 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 01:24:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca's Rant - Journals Dear List: In response to the suggestions of Mark Cashman & others, this list is fortunate in that at least two UFO journal editors are subscribers. I can't speak for the other one (Jerry Clark of IUR), but here are my thoughts about the MUFON Journal, in no particular order. Peer review per se is simply out of the question for a number of reasons.For one thing, it's an extremely lengthy and time-consuming process. And for better or worse, I have to publish a 24-page journal each and every month. At 12x24=288 pages, that's in effect an entire book a year. What this means in real terms is that a good deal of what someone else might consdier 'filler' material regularly appears in print. On the upside, we are able to offer current news and book reviews because of our monthly schedule. As someone else has already pointed out, the field presently has a peer-reviewed journal in the form of the Journal of UFO Studies. Buy it and support it. (That said, some articles of a technical nature are peer reviewed before they're published in the Journal.) The Journal is a membership publication, which means that we devote space to membership matters, such as Walt's monthly "Director's Message," for which no peer review is needed, although I occasionaly have to ride herd on some of his syntax. Much as one might object, the classified ads section falls into the same category. While I may not necessarily (and often don't) agree with the nature and content of every ad, either, it's offered as a service to MUFON members and has been well received by same. With over 4000 members worldwide, we're bound to have a few with what might be considered 'extracurricular' interests. It's not my job to say Nope, no thanks, because of content. And to be realistic -- we do all remember what that means, don't we? -- ads help pay the bills, mine included. Behind the scenes, some advertizers have been banned when they haven't delivered as promised. As always, the NY Times and Time magazine included, caveat emptor! Now we come to editorial content, where my 'conservatism' (what I like to think of as scientific objectivity) is not always appreciated. In general, I'm hammered by both the left and right fringes of ufology pretty much whatever I do. To my own personal disappointment, the middle ground (which I consider the high ground) seems to have largely evaporated -- or to be evaporating -- or maybe its members simply don't write letters to the editor the way the more motivated end wings do. At any rate, editing a UFO journal ain't no bed of roses. In fact, it's a classic case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. The most recent example: Do you denounce Corso as a patent, self-evident fraud (based on your own reading of the book), or do you merely _report_ on Corso and the events surrounding the publication of his book? And what about Roswell in general? Where do you go for a peer review, to Jesse Marcel, Jr.-- or the Air Force? It's a big, gargantuan, ungainly field. Maybe we ought to come out weekly? dennis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 22:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 01:26:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso > Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:18:53 -0400 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Regarding... > >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso > James wrote: > >>What's that thread-like object the Type-4 seems to be suspended > >>from, Jim? > The image was taken from a lengthy article published in "The Alien > World", which originated as part of a magazine series called "The > Unexplained". > "The Alien World" was edited by a certain Peter Brookesmith. James, It seems, then, that we don't know the generational history of this print or of its handling. Who obtained it from whom, was GSW involved or not, how many anti-Meier-case hands did it pass through, who was the author of the article, etc. Have I not mentioned the key point before? In a case like the Meier case, and especially the Meier case, in which so many egos would be bruised if the truth of its genuineness could be more fully realized, one needs to investigate the integrity, open-mindedness and motivations of the investigator as much as that of the witness or contactee. There has been a certain desperation to discredit the Meier case that has led some to take whatever actions they deem necessary to be able to claim that one or more photos are fakes. This is a sorry state of affairs for ufology. Surely you know that back in the early 1980s one Kal Korff claimed that another picture from the same series was hoaxed by Meier. In Frontiers of Science, March-April, 1981, p. 31, he claimed the object was a model UFO attached to a model tree. But in his pamphlet against the Meier case of 1981 he first suggested (middle of p. 8) that it was a model UFO in front of a real tree, while on the same page he also suggested it was an overlay of a negative of a UFO model with a negative of the background scenery. His desperation was such as to cause him to suggest three different hoaxing methods for the very same picture! And he continues to claim he is only seeking the truth! In the meantime, the 2nd-generation film of this same picture that Wendelle Stevens analyzed indicates by three independent considerations that the UFO was a large object on the far side of the tree, and these three considerations still stand unrefuted. There is no reason to believe that Korff has been the only one to resort to desperate claims or measures to try to debunk the Meier case. At least, I see no reason to believe that. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: On natural relationships and UFOs From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 01:02:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:11:54 -0400 Subject: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs In taking the dogs out this evening I could not help but stop for some moments and gaze at the moon. It is quite full and the clearness around it, with the haze of high wispy clouds giving it a corona of apparent ancient spirit, gave me to reflect on some rather strange mathematics I used long ago in writing an intelligent biorhythm program. What struck me this evening was the thought of when I have had my sightings. At no time as I remember, did it ever occur during a full moon. I am wondering if there is a correlation. Has anyone done studies of the incidents of reported UFO sightings plotted aganst phase of the moon? It would be interesting to see sighting dates plotted and sorted on the 28.? day lunar cycle. ~Pat~ http://www.crossfields.com/~pparri
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update 08-17-97 From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:41:07 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:13:27 -0400 Subject: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update 08-17-97 Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update August 17, 1997 __________________________ In this update: FIRST CANADIAN CROP CIRCLES OF 1997! Three circles reported near Raymore, Saskatchewan NEW ONTARIO COORDINATOR FOR CPR-CANADA Wecome to Drew Gauley! "PLEIADES '97" CROP CIRCLE LECTURE IN WASHINGTON STATE CPR-Canada Director Paul Anderson to give slide presentation September 13 at Glacier, Washington "Pleiades" retreat For further details on these and previous news items, please see the News and Reports 1997 section of the CPR-Canada web site at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Keep checking for news on 1997 Canadian circle formations This web site requires a frames-enabled browser __________________________ Paul Anderson Director Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Director The Millennium Group Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/ (under construction)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 PROJECT-1947 - Scientific Ufology From: Ed Stewart <egs@NETCOM.COM> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 21:32:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:22:09 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Scientific Ufology Hello list members, Mr. Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos has asked me to disseminate the following information on a Foundation legally created in Spain to sponsor UFO research. Please pass the following amongst your contacts and UFO bulletins. The CUADERNOS DE UFOLOGIA has been a world class publication on UFO phenomena for over a decade. Sincerelly, Ed Stewart ------------------------------------------------------------------- THE ANOMALY FOUNDATION: SCIENTIFIC UFOLOGY GETS ORGANIZED By Vicente-Juan BALLESTER OLMOS Research Director, Anomaly Foundation On January 1997, the Spanish Ministry of Education and Culture approved the official establishment of FUNDACION ANOMALIA (Anomaly Foundation), a not-for-profit organization which is the first such to be set in Spain or Europe. What is Anomaly Foundation? It is a cultural organization, created by a group of experienced UFO researchers and supported by a large array of investigators, experts, qualified individuals, scientists and others. They have decided to offer to the collectivity their bibliographical assets, archives patrimony, experience and dedication, as well as their financial assistance and know-how to make viable this project. The innovative project addresses the following objectives: 1. To promote the study, under a rational and scientific perspective, of anomalous aerospatial phenomena, commonly named UFOs, as well as those related subjects, as well as its social-cultural influence. 2. To preserve and professionally manage archives, files, libraries and other legacies covering such topics. 3. To continue editing the well-established UFO journal CUADERNOS DE UFOLOGIA (Ufological Papers), pondered as the best UFO information source in Spanish, as well as other publications and research monographs, essays, etc. 4. To finance actual UFO investigation through research grants and scholarships. ANOMALY FOUNDATION was born from within the collective team backing CUADERNOS DE UFOLOGIA, a loose group of professionals which edit, collaborate or orbits around this most influential UFO journal in Spanish language. The Foundation has a Board of Directors, as law requires, with President Mr. Julio Arcas (from old UFO group CIOVE), Vicepresident Mr. Jose Ruesga (from old UFO group RNC), Research Director Mr. V.J. Ballester Olmos (from oldest UFO group CEI), Legal Director Mr. Matias Morey, Publications Officer Mr. Luis Gonzalez, Archives Director Dr. Antonio Petit, and General Secretary Miss Matilde Gonzalez. The Foundation reunites a number of one time decentralised and even competing organizations, becoming an outstanding example of maturity not commonly seen in the UFO field. Many people are abandoning private leaderships to merge into a high magnitude project. In order to create the Foundation, several UFO libraries were donated, with over 1,200 volumes, as well as nine major national UFO archives, computer equipment, etc. An initial budget was collected to provide three grants for 1997. There are various projects in progress: - Data Base on the Spanish Ufological Culture. It is a most ambitious project which aims to gather together all UFO information created in Spain in the last 50 years: UFO reports, photographs, data on UFO organizations, press information, publications, etc. - UFO Subject Dictionary: the first exhaustive UFO dictionary compiling words, terms, and names surrounding the UFO phenomenon, specially focused to the hispanic world. To be published, 1997. - Collective UFO Book. Under editorship of University of Barcelona documentalist Mr. Marti Flo, the book concept will include contributions from many authors who review local UFO data and their significance, with the purpose to be informative and didactic. - GRANTS: * Prize "Ricardo Caruncho", Honoring a young UFO researcher who died last year. With 100,000 pesetas, its aim is to cover the best field investigation or case analysis performed in the year. * Prize "Joan Crexells", established in the memory of a major figure of the Catalonian CEI, who we also lost recently. It addresses the best article, broadcast or TV program to present the UFO problem in an objective light. Also 100,000 pesetas. * Scholarship "Universitas", with 150,000 pesetas, to finance a research project on the UFO phenomenon, to be prepared in the academical environment (College, University) which applies a scientific methodology in any area (physics, engineering, medicine, anthropology, sociology, statistics, astronomy, etc.) ANOMALY FOUNDATION needs now to collect monies from individuals and companies, in order to fulfil its compromises, and with the purpose to increase prizes and scholarships, not only in number but also in amount. In Spain, donations to the Foundation are tax-deductible (20% in the individual's Income Tax and 10% for the Companies contributions). Any donation will receive an official acknowledgement of receipt's certificate. Contributions over $30.00 include free receipt of one-year subscription to the journal CUADERNOS DE UFOLOGIA. Donations are invited from readers. Please make your personal cheque to the name of FUNDACION ANOMALIA, and have it mailed to this address: Fundacion Anomalia Apartado de Correos 5041 39080 Santander Spain --------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart egs@netcom.com | So Man, who here seems principal alone, There is Something | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Going On! ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. --------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Rebecca's Response to Bassett From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 07:32:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:40:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca's Response to Bassett >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 16:35:21 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Rebecca's Response to Bassett >From: SGBList2@aol.com >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:07:05 -0400 (EDT) >Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:41:48 -0400 >Subject: Kaeser's Response to Rebecca >> Actually, Steve, I would disagree here. The infrastructure has been there >> for some time - not the will or the money to implement. >This makes sense to me. I appreciate the thought that went into your >suggestions. I've responded to Bassett's post elsewhere, but seem to be drawn into making comment here as well. Let me again emphasize that I am not against a peer review process, but have doubts as to how it would be implimented in the genre as it now stands. While UFOlogy does not lack for infrastructure, there is no framework to begin the process of bringing scientific order to the genre (if that is indeed possible). [text of response deleted to save bandwidth] >Working within the parameters you set up, I would much rather see a select >committe of individuals defining reseach proposals and guidelines. My >committee would more than likely not include Derrel Sims, Roger Leir, or >Richard Hoagland. Judging by your selection here, I think this needs to be >more to the point. Are we going to scientifically study UFOs or alien >abductions, and the artifacts in space? I think a clearer goal is called for. >I would tend to leave out abductions for the time being. I'd probably leave >out the artifacts in space as well. Very good points. But you left out Cattle Mutilations and Crop Circles, which are also included in the overall genre. However, if you fail to include any of these facets, their proponents will simply set up shop on the outside of the "accepted" genre. One can only imagine the comments that would be made if Hoagland or Greer were defined as being too close to the fringe for acceptance. >> Peer Review Journal: MUFON Journal, JUFOS, IUR. >> Media Contacts/Outlets Winkler, Carter, Davids, >> C.D.B. Bryan, Blume, Achenbach, >> Richtel, Bell, Lee, TLC >ACK! Henry Winkler, I can see. Chris Carter is basically a nonbeliever, IMO. >Paul Davids has shown a distinct lack of discretion with the recent fiasco in >Roswell. He's too much a maverick. Bryan is an interesting choice. Blume, >according to one of my sources is totally not interested seriously in UFOs >any longer and believes he was totally lied to for his book "Out There." >Never heard of Richtel or Lee. Bell, is a definite out. Lee I never heard of. >Who are Lee and Richtel? I think there are plenty of candidates for media >contact and outlets, and one person, whom I don't know a lot of about, but I >would like to know more and see if he could help would be Jack Anderson. I would note that my copy of Bassett's post only listed the MUFON Journal as the "Peer Review Journal", and I was surprised to see the two others in your post here. I would certainly agree with their addition, but would suggest that it may not go far enough. [text deleted] >> I would suggest a UFO/Extraterrestrial Phenomena Research summit held in >> Washington, DC in which every operating member of the community meet in >> plenary session to define this infrastructure and discuss the means by >> which it will be supported and financed. > >Something like that would definitely be needed. I just see A LOT of hurdles >to jump over first as well as a more clearly defined agenda. Holding such a summit in Washington would not be a problem, if you have the financial backing to pull it off. But getting "every operating member of the [UFOlogical] community" to "meet in plenary session" would be an amazing sight indeed. Getting them to agree to a definition of the infrastructure that will be used to investigate UFOlogy would be even more amazing. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Rebecca Rants From: Michael Wayne Malone <wayne@HiWAAY.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 06:39:07 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:45:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > From: SGBList2@aol.com > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 15:44:31 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants > You are tapping into a much larger and very important matter: the coming of > age of the 50 year old UFO research movement. This process must succeed if > there is to be a balanced examination with extensive citizen involvement of > the issues, evidence and implications of the post paradigm world. The success or failure of the UFO community will have no effect on the balanced examination of anything. Either we come together or we fall apart. The only thing that must succeed is balanced application of facts by dedicated researchers seeking those facts. The UFO community is irrelevant to the facts. And if the UFO community can not except the facts of UFO research, then the community just became irrelevant to the "post paradigm world." > The various problems you are commenting on all stem from a single source: a > partially formed and inadequate self-understanding of the movement as a whole > by its participants. There has been very little written on the Zeitgeist of > this movement. Anyone willing to invest their time in a book has too many > targets to aim at besides the larger picture of the movement itself, and such > a book would bring little return financially. There is very little understanding of the "whole" of the community because there is no "whole." The community is hopelessly fragmented into various factions, each faction a land mass unto itself. The space between these islands of belief are filled with the ebb and flow of unbelievers, skeptics who take the time to look, scientist and the scientificly minded demanding scientific UFO investigations, and the easily swayed. > Very briefly here are some key points: > The UFO community as a whole needs to comprehend that: Again, there is no "UFO community as a whole." That is the first thing that needs to be comprehended. Just like there is no "Christian community as a whole" and no "Americans as a whole" there is, never was, and never will be a "UFO community as a whole." The belief systems, culture, and economics of individual factions are to diverse to ever view them as a whole. Attempting to is unfair to the individual factions. > 1) It is involved in an issue of unprecedented implications and is pushing > the paradigmatic envelope to the limit. It must respect the natural fear, > resistance and reactions of the public and the public's institutional > representatives. The implications are hardly unprecedented. And there is little evidence that general UFO acceptance will change any kind of paradigm. Quite the opposite, actually. It will further reinforce existing thought processes and beliefs. With nearly three quarters of the nation already believing in life outside the planet earth, trust in the government at an all time low, and general apathy about the government's ability to DO anything, proving the existance of extra-terrestrial life and/or intelligence will most likely not change much of anything at all. And even if trade is established between Earth and Alien cultures, it is hardly unprecedented... The clash of alien cultures is nothing new on the planet. > 2) It has always operated on the outside looking in with little money, > little moral support, few mainstream authorities willing to comment on its > work and without the benefit of the long standing research protocols, trade > associations, scientific traditions, old boy/girl networks, and general > acceptance that most fields of discovery consider standard equipment. Historically this is not true. Moral support is at an all time high, the highest since the late 40s early 50s. Millions have been spent on UFO research, and millions have been made on UFO research. There is no aspect of "UFOlogy" that doesn't exist in the "mainstream" scientific world, so long standing research protocols exist for anyone willing to learn them, trade associations and scientific traditions also exist for those willing to embrace the science behind UFOlogy, mainly mainstream scientific research applied to this specific topic, and old boy networks are one of the bigger dampers to real research in UFOlogy. Many other feilds of research have done much more with much much less. > 3) As regards a focused topic, it has been the most extensive citizen effort > of scientific discovery and citizen investigation of government in the > history of the human race, In that regard it had not choice. That was the > hand that was dealt. The circumstances were extraordinarily democratic and > everyone could play - smart/dumb, educated/self-educated, sane/delusional, > humble/arrogant, religious/non-religious, etc. Rather than be criticized > for this vast eclecticism, the movement should be lauded for its truly > amazing record of persistence, accomplishment and openness. It has not been > a failure it has been a great success. Past historical paradigm transition > have gone much more slowly and been much nastier. The very eclecticism that you would praise is the very problem that has a "dumbing down" effect on the research. A basic lack of understanding in simple math, science, and history by many alleged researchers has caused no end to problems within the "UFO community as a whole." By my estimate, 80 per cent of UFO myths would cease to exist if basic scientific principles were applied. > 4) Nevertheless, we are a demanding and impatient society. Those involved > in the UFO movement have experienced great frustration, pain, ridicule. > There has been little opportunity to vent this frustration on the > mainstream institutions - they laugh it off. So we vent at each other, tear > at each other and the proper bounds of criticism and debate are crossed > repeatedly. This is human nature. I'm not sure I see the connection between a demanding and impatient society and the fact that UFOLogist tend to eat its own. However, within the mainstream institutions there is plenty of the same types of criticism and debate that exist in UFOlogy. Our problem is that we don't know how to keep it between ourselves, and out of the press. Two scientist, regardless of the field, who are violently opposed to one anothers views and theories are as childish as any other disagreeing souls. They just keep it out of the press and express it with more decourum than we tend to. > 5) The UFO movement is in fact at risk of coming apart at the seams just as > it approaches the finish line and losing much of its influence in the > postparadigm world. This can be avoided if every member of this loose > confederation: There are no seams, and the UFO movement is already apart. There is no finish line and there is no influence. Myths and Facts have influnce, but the UFO community does not. To have influence, it would need to be unified. And as I have already pointed out... it ain't. > a) steps back and attempts to see the larger picture and their place > in that picture. That's a good way of realizing how insignificant you are. Or how big your ego is, if you suddenly find yourself important in that look. > b) reintroduces themselves to the fundamental humility that has > always been at the core of great science and great scientists and renounces > arrogance as a counter productive stance regardless of their views and needs. You've never read anything about Edison, have you? Never picked up a book on Tesla, Bell, Einstien, or Hawkins? Read up on Oberg or Sagan? Any scientist who thinks they can make a differance can not afford to have humility. Any science that has made a differance was anything but humble. To get the funding, change the views, finish the deal, and make a differance has always taken arrogance, insistance, perserverance, and dedication. Greatness is a product of history. Success is a process of will. > c) accepts the given democratic nature of this movement and shows > some empathy for the broad range of methods that their fellow citizens > utilize to adapt to and embrace this unfolding reengineering of the world. There is no "movement" and the broad range of methods is killing what little real, honest research is being performed. There is a reason mainstream science looks at UFO researchers and giggles... That's because many UFO myths are silly. Until we stop speculating on that which we do not know, accepting that which can not be proven, and saying that which should not be said, we will always be hampered by that broad range of methods. > d) understands that the UFO movement has become more than just a > voyage of discovery but also a model which the mainstream part of our and > other cultures may, and I say may, turn to for constructive example, > information and guidance as they are forced by virtue of events to deal at > last with the truths they have so assiduously avoided dealing with for so > long. The only model that the alleged UFO movement may provide is the chaos inherant in a multi-cultural society. The community is meerly a smaller version of the world at large... With the good and bad mixed in. That alone seperates us from mainstream science, which is more single minded on core issues and tenants. > It is very easy to forget, as one delves deeper and deeper into the > accumulating evidence and theoretical extrapolations, that one is not special > because one comes to the truth before someone else. No one owns that > franchise. The truth effects us all, even when it is hidden. As long as UFOlogy attempts to deal in "truth" instead of "facts" there is no hope for any part of UFOlogy. Truth is a factor of belief. We've got enough believing in UFOlogy. It's time to concentrate on proving. > One hidden truth that seems to lurk behind every corner of the unfolding UFO > evidence is this: tolerance. The lack of it seems capable of bringing down > any enterprise humans can construct - even the end of the world itself. It > may be the last quality we must truly command to survive. Its lack within > the UFO community among researchers, intriguees, debunkers, operatives, > contactees can be just as damaging as the same deficiency the mainstream > community has demonstrated in its efforts to thwart the movement itself. Tolerance is the last thing any scientific endevor needs. It should be intolerant of anything that can not be proven. It should demand proof, demand experimentation, and demand evidence. Once proven, it should be accepting of new ideas. Blanket tolerance is not a scientific concept. However noble tolerance is in society, in science it has no place. And there is one truth that you completely forgot. The economic pressures to produce anything that agrees with preconcived notions. That's why the National Enquirer is the nations largest weekly newspaper. They never forget. Michael
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Rebecca's Rant - Journals From: meccam@erols.com Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 07:49:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:46:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca's Rant - Journals > Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 22:41:52 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: dstacy@texas.net (Dennis Stacy) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Rebecca's Rant > Now we come to editorial content, where my 'conservatism' (what I like to > think of as scientific objectivity) is not always appreciated. In general, > I'm hammered by both the left and right fringes of ufology pretty much > whatever I do. To my own personal disappointment, the middle ground (which > I consider the high ground) seems to have largely evaporated -- or to be > evaporating -- or maybe its members simply don't write letters to the > editor the way the more motivated end wings do. > At any rate, editing a UFO journal ain't no bed of roses. In fact, it's a > classic case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. The most recent > example: Do you denounce Corso as a patent, self-evident fraud (based on > your own reading of the book), or do you merely _report_ on Corso and the > events surrounding the publication of his book? Got an idea -(applause)- why not set up a debate feature on the major feature you're addressing each month? for example, Corso's book. Get one writer who takes the pro side, another the con side, and present both sides of the issue. Then you get to take the "middle ground" and everyone is happy. Besides, this format makes for very interesting reading and exercises the mind - worked well for PC MAgazine for years. If you select the authors with reasonable care, it would spice up the magazine and appease your polarized factions in one fell swoop. Melanie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:43:30 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:48:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:32:09 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' >sticks lying on the ground. The stick in question is about 2 feet long, very >un-I-beam like, and has a few dark splotches on it, but nothing resembling >"hieroglyphics." It is just a balsa wood stick with some purple tape with flowers on it, that the gov't procures from a toy company. You see the gov't always procures purple flowery toy tape because there aren't any other companies that meet their MIL SPEC for gov't procurement. In fact they use this tape on all their aircraft as well. <g> Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Bentwaters, Arizona featured on Project: watchfire From: "Diana Hopkins" <DDBH@msn.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 12:37:30 UT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:04:57 -0400 Subject: Bentwaters, Arizona featured on Project: watchfire Project: watchfire (http://watchfire.msn.com) is covering the Bentwaters sightings this week with material including video clips from Jim Penniston - key witness as the AFB. On Tuesday, August 19th, at 6pm, PT - Jim Hickman, Oklahoma Director for Skywatch International, will join Watchfire for a live chat on Project: Pounce and Skywatch Int'l's Col. Wilson's alleged involvement at Bentwaters. Hickman will also bring participants up to date on the status of the Arizona investigations - including analysis done on photographs. Diana Botsford
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: On natural relationships and UFOs From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Aug 97 09:03:55 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:43:16 -0400 Subject: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs >Subject: On natural relationships and UFOs >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 01:02:22 -0500 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Pat, Interesting ovservation about correlation with moon phases. As I understand from a psychologist friend who was head of a major mental hospital until he retired, there is some validity to the idea of lunacy, as in luna -- the moon. He told me that there is a definite correlation between violence in patients and the full moon, these patients becoming more violent as the moon waxes, and at their peak when it it full, and then tapering off as the moon wanes. If UFO encounters follow the opposite pattern, increasing as the moon wanes and decreasing as it waxes, that would argue against such encounters being psychological disorders. I have a vague recollection of reading something many years ago which correlated UFO reports to natural cycles, including the moon, but don't now recall when or where I saw this or what it said, nor do I recall if it was in something I would consider a reputable publication. I wonder if maybe Persinger did something on this in his early days when he was still doing real science. I know he did studies to correlate unusual events to magnetic and gravitational anomalies. Very interesting idea. If it hasn't been done, let's hope someone does it. Of course it could be something as simple as bright moonlight bothering those big black eyes! <G> Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:34:07 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:14:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update > Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:41:07 -0800 > To: updates@globalserve.net (Errol Bruce-Knapp - UFO Updates) > From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) > Subject: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update August 17, 1997 > FIRST CANADIAN CROP CIRCLES OF 1997! > Three circles reported near Raymore, Saskatchewan ... and which were shown on a TV news program last week. The RCMP and some farmers thought they were nothing more than lodging. They didn't look like much on film, either. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:15:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:20:24 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... > >From: DRudiak@aol.com >>Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:32:09 -0400 (EDT) >>Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' >The photographs which were taken are important evidence. As we know, >Major Marcel claimed that the photographs showing himself holding the >debris were not staged; that was part of the "flying saucer" wreckage. NO, NO, NO. Bill Moore claimed that Marcel had said that, but the evidence is that Moore fabricated those quotes. There are three different version of the interview floating around, all of them traceable back to Moore. In 1980 when Johnny Mann of New Orleans TV station WWL interviewed Marcel, he showed those pictures to Marcel who told him that they didn't show the real debris. There is no credible evidence that Marcel ever said that if he was in the picture it was the real debris. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: On natural relationships and UFOs From: "Chris Rutkowski" <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:28:52 CST Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 18:50:38 -0400 Subject: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs >Subject: On natural relationships and UFOs >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 01:02:22 -0500 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > In taking the dogs out this evening I could not help > but stop for some moments and gaze at the moon. > I am wondering if there is a correlation. Has > anyone done studies of the incidents of reported > UFO sightings plotted aganst phase of the moon? > It would be interesting to see sighting dates > plotted and sorted on the 28.? day lunar cycle. Now here's an interesting conundrum. Any debunker worth his or her salt knows that "Moon Madness" is a complete fiction and that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that the Moon has any real effect on us. Yet, if it could be shown that there was a correlation between Moon phase and the number of UFO reports, it might help to explain why people report UFOs if we assumed some sort of effect. But yes, there have been such studies done as long ago as the 1950s, I recall, and there were no definite correlations discovered. Orthoteny, the "Mars Effect," the "Wednesday Phenomenon," ... all these, too, have been tested and shown not to be real effects. But thanks for the bringing this up, Pat. It shows us how much more needs to be done in this field.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:36:30 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 18:54:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update >> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:41:07 -0800 >> To: updates@globalserve.net (Errol Bruce-Knapp - UFO Updates) >> From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) >> Subject: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update August 17, 1997 >> FIRST CANADIAN CROP CIRCLES OF 1997! >> Three circles reported near Raymore, Saskatchewan >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update 08-17-97 >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:34:07 -0500 (CDT) >... and which were shown on a TV news program last week. The RCMP and >some farmers thought they were nothing more than lodging. They didn't >look like much on film, either. >-- >Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca >(and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) >University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada I simply put out the initial report, to make the information known to people. The fellow I spoke with (who called me last Friday) said he heard an RCMP officer interviewed on a radio news program out of Moosejaw who said that at least he thought they *were* unusual. I am trying to get more facts on this. You *cannot* make a solid judgement based on one intial viewing on TV. Also, lab testing by the BLT team in Michigan had been showing that some "formations" which look more like lodging or wind damage, show similar changes to the plant nodes, etc. as in more "regular" formations. These type of formations are actually sometimes found in the same field as another "good" formations, including the "pictograms". Features like this need to be followed up on and studied, even if they do turn out to have completely prosaic explanations. BLT themselves have stressed this. What many researchers call "magic bending" of the nodes is usually just phototropism, a natural bending of the plants back upwards toward the light (sun) after they have been flattened. Unfortunately, in this case, it looks like sampling / testing won't be possible (as the circles are on an Indian reservation and they are not allowing anyone on to the property, other than initially the RCMP). What news program were these on? I would like to see the video / photos if possible. There have been a good number of crop formations in the US this year, so we need to jump on ANY reports we hear of in this country now. Paul Paul Anderson Director Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Director The Millennium Group Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/ (under construction)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Land on Mars for Sale From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:03:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Land on Mars for Sale --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Land on Mars for Sale Date: 97-08-18 11:19:00 EDT From: AOL News Sales Will Benefit Space Exploration and Kiwanis International Project to Aid Third World Countries INDIANAPOLIS, Aug. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- Feeling crowded? Need room to spread yourself out? How about purchasing land on Mars? Space Pioneers, LLC, a marketing company developed by a group of entrepreneurs and an advertising agency, will soon market symbolic land plots on Mars. The $29.99 package includes more than the symbolic title to one acre of Martian real estate. Consumers also receive: * an educational photo book; * a mug with a space shuttle design; * a Space Pioneers logo lapel pin; * an outer space-themed poster; * a Space Pioneers collectors cap; and * participation in Space Pioneers' International Registry for Space Colonization Program. Conceived by Jeff Sablotne, entrepreneur and space enthusiast, Space Pioneers has a higher goal than creating a fun marketing tool. The marketing promotion also works to generate public discussion of a more serious matter -- who owns space. According to a 1967 Multilateral Treaty on the subject of outer space, no one owns space or any of its celestial bodies. Sablotne feels strongly that world discussion must be directed to resolving the issues of space colonization, mineral rights and governance. Consumers purchasing Mars plots will receive a copy of the treaty. This document will help explain the symbolic nature of their title and awaken them to the difficult decisions facing a world of space colonization. For each purchase of a symbolic land plot on Mars, Space Pioneers will contribute ten percent of its proceeds to the Space Pioneers Research and Development Foundation, a non-profit organization concerned with financially supporting NASA's scientific research related to the exploration and future colonization of space. An additional ten percent of each plot purchase will be donated by Space Pioneers to Kiwanis International to help eliminate iodine deficiency diseases around the world. To request the Mars plot package or obtain more information, consumers can call 800-333-7908 or access the Space Pioneers web site at www.space-pioneers.com. CO: Space Pioneers, LLC ST: Indiana IN: SU: PDT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Maury Island From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:06:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Maury Island Hi, I was watching some old conference videotapes this weekend (OK, I really am a BORING person) and came across one from Gulf Breeze 1993. It was in slide presentation of Bob Dean's that he shows two slides which he claims are photos from the Maury Island incident. Dean said these were photos which "aren't supposed to exist." I admit, I have never seen them before and so far, I haven't found anyone else who has seen them either. It's hard for me to describe them because the slides are somewhat ambiguous and I'm watching a video (taped at SLP) of a slide presentation. Does anyone know of any photos of Maury Island? If so, where have you seen them before? Have they been authenticated? Dean says of the second slide that many feel that one is a hoax. The second slide seems to depict a craft and debris in the sky. The other slide is very ambiguous. It is said to depict debris. But I can't ascertain the background, whether it is the sky or water. Any help on this would be appreciated. Thanks, Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Alfred's Odd Ode #169 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:42:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:20:45 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #169 Apology to MW #169 (For August 18, 1997) It caused a grand deliberation of the watchers in their ships. And many years were spent in observation. It wasn't bullets that they questioned. They had that all inspected. It was linked to a consumable; It was a food association. A twisted shard of metal, a razor blade, a smiling face. It cut the toes, and tongue, and windpipes -- many millions. Consider that with fear. . . Take a moment and you hear The labored breathing of a Planet frankly cursed with all her billions! Take them all placed end to end, they're to the moon -- it ain't pretend. They were flicked, and tossed to shimmer in our sun. The disease that they have caused Is a resource draining dodge; It made a few too rich for dreams and put the watchers on the run. There were many died directly as they sucked it in their lungs. A few obliged to use it as a weapon. We were slow to learn the lesson; "Exhaust the stocks before confessing", That it should have stopped immediately! It never should have happened! The bunkie sneers inanely from convenient comfy spots That "there's folks who choke on buttons every year. . ." "Give up buttons?" their rebuttle! Their strawman that unsubtle. . . Like razor blades for buttons isn't stupid -- isn't queer! Jimmy Buffet groks the import of this twisted slash of metal That you keep beneath your notice outside thought. He missed his Latin cutey And she was a raving beauty. . . Consider -- watchers cutting feet on all the pop tops! Now who gives a boink in discussion on a pop top? It's not well that you should really have to ask. In itself it's bad enough, Life and death-like kind of stuff -- But mere component of a thousand crueler facts. It's the watchers, though, that matter and they write what should be written. It is someday we'll be reading what was said. There is little we've accomplished, Where we find it we're astonished! What we'll mostly find is sorrow, and I shake my humble head. Lehmberg@snowhill.com I think everybody has a pop top story that illustrates just how nasty they were. The thing is, they were with us longer than they needed to be. Why? Well -- nothing personal, it was just business -- inventory had to be exhausted, investments had to be protected. . . comfort had to be assured. How much better did you live, profit taker. I have to laugh -- the republicans want to pay off the national debt now that the "budget is balanced." Who gets the lions share of that paid back debt? Follow the money. If I was a watcher, I'd hide from us too!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 The 'Tongue-Eater' From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:36:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:23:44 -0400 Subject: The 'Tongue-Eater' Hey Errol, A friend passed this on to me from alt.folklore.urban. Unfortunately, I don't h ave the proper attribution stuff for "Steve Caskey". Not sure if you can use it, but I thought I'd pass it along anyway... David ************************************************************************* The following article was in this morning's news feed at work. Note the references to the chupacabra in the last two paragraphs. Is the "tongue-eater" a significant variation? NICARAGUA MYSTERY Managua, DPA - The ``tongue-eater'', a mysterious monster described as a cross between a turkey and a cat, is terrifying the peasant farmers of Nicaragua's central province of Boaca with his lust for the blood of domesticated animals, news reports said today. During the past several days, the so called tongue-eater has killed several cows and other domesticated animals by ripping out their tongues and sucking their blood, the reports said. There have even been reports that the mysterious animal has attacked humans. But so far not a single tongue-eater has been caught. The Nicaraguan reports are reminiscent of similar accounts last year in Mexico, where an unidentified mystery animal was said to have sucked the blood of goats and domesticated animals in remote regions of the country. Mexican authorities suspected the culprits were wolves or mountain lions, but advertisers and other entrepreneurs used the idea of such a ``monster'' to decorate T-shirts and as models for children's toys. DPA I seem to recall comments from earlier iterations of the goatsucker thread that the tongues of dead livestock were often among the first parts to be removed by scavengers, being presumably something of a delicacy. It seems pretty likely though that we're looking at an identical situation to the chupacabra myth, where damage to the corpse of an animal caused after its death is being identified as the cause of death. I wonder where the description came from - a scavenger caught in the act but not identified, I'd guess. Steve "note the characteristic bite marks of the Spotted Marketing Opportunity" Caskey
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 15:26:18 cst Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:36:07 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:26:12 -0500 >From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >> I have no financial interest in the AA affair one way or another. >> The AA video proponents most definitely have a financial stake in >> preserving the belief among as large a market as possible that >> the AA video is real. That's marketing. >> If the AA video were revealed as a hoax I suspect that Santilli's >> sales would fall dramatically. Under these conditions, who would >> you normally assume to be more objective -- the salesmen or the >> skeptic? >Oh Vince, I am sooo grateful (hug, squeeze, kiss, kiss) that you >have so graciously taken a significant portion of your valuable time >to save me (a humble hayseed) from the nefarious hucksterism of the >venal capitalist Santilli and his henchmen. >Oh, all right, I reluctantly apologize for the dripping sarcasm. And >here, I am about to run off with some sermonizing of my own. >Ah, the naysayers. Those strident detractors of any unorthodox >issues currently in public favor. With their dialogue bereft of >original thought or points, they steal the shallow counterpoints of >others and wrapping this thin relevant skeleton with porcine fleshy >layers of ridicule, insult, and abuse, they assail those more willing >to consider the strange, the unorthodox, the improbable. If Spiro >Agnew could realize the immense power that worldwide communications >has given to the "nattering nabobs of negativism," he might suffer >resurrection singed with conversion to liberalism. Wait, perhaps I >am succumbing to Agnewism. This immense investment in the naysayers >messianic self image and ego projection must surely match the >financial interest of some entrepreneurs. They constantly return >with their abundance of derision countered by their lack of new >information. What contribution have the naysayers given us that >furthers our understanding of the reality or non reality of this ET >issue? >Naysayers are not the common doubter, skeptic, or bearer of mundane >explanations. They betray themselves first by the virulence of >personal attack in their messages and second by the impregnable >position they take on their issues. They come forward only to >proselytize and bring us salvation. They suffer a need to monopolize >our time and our efforts. They are intoxicated by our attention. >(Now, back to my sermon.) >Don't give it to them. If you begin to see a dishonest message, don't >reply. Don't feed their ego habit. If you feel compelled to answer, >use a short reply to tell them they are being unfair or dishonest >without lengthy explanation. The naysayers pathology demands the >sustenance of a continuing dialogue. Without it, they slink off to >another forum. I don't know if you can characterize my observation that "salesmen" can not be relied upon to be truthful when promoting a particular product as "naysaying." Do you deny that, historically, monetary self-interest has all-too-often overridden respect for the truth? I can only presume that you consider me a "naysayer" for reminding the overly credulous that first and foremost, a product is being sold here (in this case the AA video) and that the salesmen's claims haven't checked out. Normally (outside the weird, wacky world of ufology) under similar situations one could report suspected fraudulent business practices to the BBB or, in particularly egregious cases, to the local district attorney's office. When a dissatisfied customer files a complaint, does that make them a "naysayer"? Is the listing of the particulars of a complaint equivalent to a virulent personal attack? You've taken me to task for holding an "impregnable" position. I can't say with certainty that I'm right about the AA video, but the truth usually provides an impregnable position. If you characterize someone as having an impregnable position on an issue, why isn't it likely that the person holding that "impregnable" position is right? We're talking about questionable marketing claims here -- not an article of faith. You seem to be making the case that BS and the truth are equivalent, and that it's somehow egocentric and/or impolite to point-out the difference. I couldn't disagree more. The side-show aspects of ufology must not be allowed to obscure and obstruct the serious inquiry into this potentially important phenomenon. Regards, Vince \_______________________________________________/ UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0145 An E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of UFO Related Phenomena UFO UpDates Instant Archive now available at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates MUFON Ontario's Home Page: http://www.globalserve.net/~updates/mufon/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Sims' 'analysis' of Pat Prrinello's implant From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 15:58:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:43:29 -0400 Subject: Sims' 'analysis' of Pat Prrinello's implant >Subject: Sims' analysis of your implant >Sent: 8/18/97 6:05 PM >Received: 8/18/97 3:26 PM >From: Edoardo Russo, edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it >To: Pat Parrinello, pparri@crossfields.com >Dear Mr Parrinello >(I hope I got the spelling of your name right) How could you miss on a good Irish name like mine? :-D >May I ask you a direct question concerning your own experience with Derrel >Sims? You may. >We're going to publish a somewhat critical article about Mr Sims >activities, and I'm trying to verify some reported claims. Got a number and standing in line are ye? :) >I recently read that you were complaining about him not having ever yet >revealed any result of analysis of the implant extracted from your body. Specific analysis has not come to me. I've dug thru the rather nebulas material in the NIDS website and have called John Alexander who related mine was "T3" and that it was so much 'mud' so to speak. Well, that don't wash because it is very well known by me and others that in situ it gave all indications of being of metallic structure via changes in inductance which produced high readings. Any metal detector would scream. >Can you confirm that? Just did. >Would you please also confirm whence your implant was extracted and whether >you were one of the original HUFON support group of abductees or whatever >more info about your own abduction story? I am a "member" of nothing save the IRS tax rolls and social Security system and the community where I live. In other words I am as independent as they come, given to rash statements, and quite adamant concerning the way things ought to be. I guess that's the Italian in me! ;) The surgery took place 8/19/95 in Dr. Leir's clinic. Tomorrow is the 2 year milestone. >Is anything else you'd like to add about the matter? Not that I am willing to discuss in public just yet. Perhaps by phone. >Thanks for your help and best regards. I'd do anything for free spaghetti!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 The God Hypothesis From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 16:18:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:59:04 -0400 Subject: The God Hypothesis Aspects of the (UFO) abduction phenomenon are excerpted below from pp. 158-162 of Joe Lewels' book " The God Hypothesis: Extraterrestrial Life and Its Implications for Science and Religion" (Wild Flowe r Press, POB 190, Mill Spring, NC 28756; tel: 704/894-8444 fax: 704/894-8454; email: bcrissey@bluewa terp.com; URL: <http://www.bluewaterp.com/~bcrissey>: ...no single organization or researcher has access to all the abduction research that has been, and continues to be, conducted throughout the world. Independent researchers proliferate, standardized procedures are lacking, reporting procedures are cumbersome and, in some cases, professional jealousies prevent researchers from sharing their data. As a result, generalizations about the nature of the phenomenon, the purpose for the abductions, the types of beings involved, their origins, and the relationships between the various types of beings are difficult to make. The most systematic effort thus far to answer such questions involves a massive study launched in 1992 by MUFON, called the Abduction Transcription Project, directed by Dan Wright. Funded in part by the Fund for UFO Research [FUFOR], the project collects transcripts of audiotaped interviews and hypnosis sessions with experiencers, provided by well-known and respected researchers from different pa rts of the country. The verbatim transcripts are entered into a sophisticated computer system for a multi-factor analysis of the abduction experience. Ultimately, it is hoped that the data will reve al the true nature of the abduction experience and be able to answer many of the questions researcher have about the beings and their purpose. Through February 1996, Wright had accumulated 750 transcripts involving 215 separate cases detailing abductions going back to the 1940s. Although this represents a massive amount of data, it is clear that the project is in its infancy and that many more cases are needed to reach the point where the resulting analysis will have scientific validity...At the 1995 MUFON Symposium held in Seattle, Wright summarized the project's findings, which at the time consisted of only 142 cases, submitted by 15 researchers ... An "away team" of very short, whitish, grayish, or bluish beings take the person from his home, car, or other location. In 45 of the cases, the beings passed through solid walls or objects during the abduction and in 31 cases the witnesses were aware that they, themselves, were being passed through solid matter, such as a wall or a ceiling, and then floated up to an awaiting craft. Wright reports that one of the beings heads the team and speaks for the others, always telepathically. A being who is perceived to be a doctor takes over aboard the craft. This being is nearly always taller than the others and is sensed to be male, although gender differences are not outwardly vi sible. "Often displaying a superior, no-nonsense demeanor, he performs intricate procedures on the subject. Other beings of nearly the same likeness serve as =CEinterns' or =CEtechnicians,' helping to examine the subject. They are sometimes chastised by the doctor for lack of precision. Quite often, one of these is sensed by the abductee to be female and is given the job of comforting the subject, ensuring cooperation." Sometimes, subjects report the presence of a tall blonde--an extremely tall male with human features that include pale skin, longish blonde hair, and blue, green, or hazel eyes who stands nearby, but who serves no obvious function. "Several subjects," reports Wright, "have been certain in retrospect that this was his/her real father." In some cases, a "heavily wrinkled, old one" makes an appearance, but again, does not seem to be performing any function. Two other types reported in the study were the insectoids or "praying mantis" types, which are described to have a thin, skeletal body and the face of a praying mantis, and the reptilian types, which are described as having powerful, muscled bodies, greenish or brownish scaly skin, penetrating yellow "cat eyes" with vertically-slit pupils, and four-fingered clawed hands with webbing between the fingers. Often these last two types are thought to be in leadership positions. Among the procedures reported are the forced ingestion of a peculiar liquid, external brain scanning, internal probing of the brain with needles or drilling instruments, implantation of small objects in various parts of the body, and sampling of blood, tissue, bone marrow, and bodily fluids. Forty percent reported enduring sexually-related intrusions. For the men, this entailed the placement of an apparatus over the testicles and penis for the removal of semen and for the women it usually involved the removal of ova by means of a needle through the navel. The women also reported the insertion of a very small object, thought to be an embryo, into the womb, and subsequently the removal of a two-to three-month-old fetus. Wright also reports on what is one of the most disturbing elements of the abduction scenario: "In three incidents, a woman was forced to have sexual relations with a male abductee also onboard who app eared compelled to perform the act, judging by his dazed appearance. Two subjects recounted that they were mounted and raped aboard a craft--a woman by a taller figure with grayish-white skin, and a man by a short yellowish-gray female. In a third case, a woman awoke in bed amid the throes of sexu al passion to discover scaly claws at her private parts--indicative of a reptilian." In 40 cases, the experiencers received nonverbal communication in the form of visual images transmit ted to them either telepathically or shown to them on a computer screen, via a holographic image. O ften the images are of other planets, star systems, or extraterrestrial landscapes. Five subjects r eceived images of Earth's past, "from dinosaurs to early twentieth-century wars." While in 13 cases, there was "imagery depicting Earth's future. Without exception it was an unpleasant sight: volcano es erupting, nuclear power plants exploding, vast regions on fire, devastated rain forests and the like." Thirty-one subjects, both male and female, were shown a being or beings that were apparently half-human and half-alien. In eight cases, the person was taken to a separate room where they were shown numerous hybrid fetuses being grown in tanks filled with a liquid. "An umbilical cord connected the pre-infant to tubes, which, in turn, led to a machine. Thirteen subjects reported being presented with a "terribly pale and frail hybrid newborn and told that s/he had helped to create that child." In several cases, women abductees were handed an infant and told to nurse it. In those cases, they reported that "amazingly...her breasts were filled with milk..." Three hybrid experiences involved children older than toddlers, one with an adult hybrid present. Eleven others described hybrids of undetermined age, but all described the hybrids as being extremely thin, having large heads with patches of wispy hair, and unusually large eyes that were either all black, like the Grey's, or human-like. "In one cases, a hybrid child, dressed in a simple gown and adjudged to be of elementary school age, approached the subject ans said matter-of-factly, "You are my mother." A few of the subjects in the study reported events that are hard to categorize. One discovered that he was able to levitate objects with the power of his mind, while aboard the ship. Three persons said that they felt that they (their souls) had been placed somehow into the body of a gray alien. They recognized their own hands as those of a gray entity. (Since there were no mirrors available, they couldn't tell what the rest of their bodies looked like.) One commented that his body felt "much slimmer than his normal stocky frame." Two of the three remembered that the purpose of their being placed in an alien body was due to the fact that the ship was about to travel "inter-dimensionally" and a change to the body with a different vibration was necessary. These few individuals felt a strong connection with the aliens and even felt that they, in fact, had a dual existence. Sixteen of the subjects voiced a conviction that the "entities are their true forbears." Although not reported in this study, past-life memories, out-of-body experiences, and increased psychic abilities are also common elements of abduction cases... S. Patricia Welsh <pwelsh@nwu.edu> Northwestern University: Purchasing Services <http://www.gensvcs.nwu.edu/purchasing_dir.html> NU employees: set a bookmark at our Surplus Property Exchange </ color>webpage: <http://www.gensvcs.nwu.edu/Purchasing/Proplist.html>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 18:14:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:15:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' Regarding... >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:45:05 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' Kevin Randle wrote: >>The photographs which were taken are important evidence. As we know, >>Major Marcel claimed that the photographs showing himself holding >>the debris were not staged; that was part of the "flying saucer" >>wreckage. >NO, NO, NO. Bill Moore claimed that Marcel had said that, but the >evidence is that Moore fabricated those quotes. Kevin, Your comments have crossed with my query to Dave Rudiak on this very point. So, there is apparently a reason for doubting Marcel's reported comments. >There are three different version of the interview floating around, >all of them traceable back to Moore. >In 1980 when Johnny Mann of New Orleans TV station WWL interviewed >Marcel, he showed those pictures to Marcel who told him that they >didn't show the real debris. There is no credible evidence that >Marcel ever said that if he was in the picture it was the real >debris. For reference, this is the verbatim story attributed to Major Marcel in "The Roswell Incident": "Just after we got to Carswell, Fort Worth, we were told to bring some of this stuff up to the general's office - that he wanted to take a look at it. We did this and spread it out on the floor on some brown paper. What we had was only a very small portion of the debris - there was a whole lot more. There was half a B-29-ful outside. General Ramey allowed some members of the press to take a picture of this stuff. They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the less-interesting metallic debris. The press was allowed to photograph this, but were not allowed far enough into the room to touch it. The stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we had found. It was not a staged photo. Later, they cleared out our wreckage and substituted some of their own Then they allowed more photos. Those photos were taken while the actual wreckage was already on its way to Wright Field. I was not in these. I believe these were taken with the general and one of his aides". If the other versions of this interview have been published, is that material still available? It would be helpful to clarify this definitively, it makes a significant difference to the perspective. Is it agreed that all the photographs show the same debris and that no switch could therefore have taken place? If that's the case, then there is presumably no debate that either, all of the photographs show some of the debris Marcel recovered, or all of them show substituted, bogus debris. Kevin, much is made of the claim that Brazel was forced to change his story. What exactly did he change? We know he reportedly later said the debris was recovered on June 14th, rather than the "some days before" generalisation reported elsewhere, but I can't see what difference that made at the time. It was also later reported that, "when the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape and sticks made a bundle about three feet long". Is that what's considered to be a major change in his story? James E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Controversy Between SETI And UFO Devotees From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 00:46:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:18:41 -0400 Subject: Controversy Between SETI And UFO Devotees Found at: http://www.flatoday.com:80/space/explore/stories/1997b/081197a.htm FLORIDA TODAY Space Online For August 11, 1997 Is the truth really out there? Copyright =A9 1997, The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast or re-distributed directly or re-directly. MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (AP) -- Is the truth really out there? A handful of scientists listening intently for faint radio signals from distant solar systems are keeping their ears, and minds, open to that possibility. Like their Hollywood counterparts in the movie "Contact," scientists at the SETI Institute hunt for life in space using powerful radio telescopes. SETI, short for Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, is surveying 1,000 stars similar to our sun but light years distant. They hope that the survey, called Project Phoenix, will help answer a question as old as mankind: Are we alone? "This is a question 100,000 civilizations have asked. We are the first civilization which could hope to answer that," said Seth Shostak, a scientist and spokesman for SETI. "It would be a shame not to try." At their offices 35 miles south of San Francisco, SETI scientists listen for signals between 1,000 and 3,000 megahertz on the radio dial, where natural background static is at a minimum. After weeding out earthly and satellite signals, they have been left so far with no messages from space. But they persevere. SETI had its efforts cut short four years ago, when Congress trimmed its funding and booted them out of their offices at the NASA's Ames Research Center nearby. At the time, Sen. Richard Bryan, D-Nev., called SETI "The Great Martian Chase" and added, "I think this money could better be left unspent." Donors such as Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen and Intel co-founder Gordon Moore stepped in and rescued SETI, which now receives its estimated $4 million annual budget through private contributions. Similar projects have been active since 1960, when radio astronomer Frank Drake conducted Project Ozma, the first radio scan for extraterrestrial life. Ozma didn't find anything, but Drake found his calling. Now a professor of astronomy and astrophysics at the University of California at Santa Cruz and SETI's president, Drake continues to pursue his lifelong passion. "It's the last great adventure for humans," Drake said. "It's an adventure which can guide us philosophically as to what we might become. It drives us all." If SETI does succeed in detecting a signal, standard protocol is that they verify it with another observatory, then notify the International Astronomical Union, Shostak said. But there remains the hazard that whoever we find may, in turn, find us. And Shostak is not discounting the notion that the aliens may be as surly as recent popular culture portrays. "I don't think that all the advanced critters of the galaxy are going to be benign. I just can't believe that because there's a big premium that nature is willing to pay for aggression. Aggression pays," Shostak said. The project still represents an unproven endeavor, and fellow scientists comprise some of SETI's harshest critics. At least one peer says Project Phoenix is a waste of time -- because aliens already are here. "I think they are and have been here since 1947, implementing their strategy of gradually letting us know," says James Deardorff, who worked for 10 years as a senior scientist with the National Center for Atmospheric Research and for eight years as a professor at Oregon State University. In 1986, Deardorff published a paper about his alien contact theory in the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society. His work, titled "Possible Extraterrestrial Strategy for Earth," claims that inconsistencies with SETI-like searches and the public panic that might ensue if a signal was detected are something aliens would anticipate and avoid. Deardorff doesn't think aliens want to be found -- yet. "They would never be able to trust that their message would get to the public as a whole," Deardorff said. He surmises aliens are likely to have a long-term plan to circumvent the scientific and political communities, and to make their presence known through sporadic human abductions and UFO sightings over time. "A UFO witness would have a better idea of what's going on than Frank Drake would," Deardorff said. "ET wouldn't bother to use 20th-century science." Another critic of SETI's reasoning is Ben Zuckerman, a professor of physics and astronomy at UCLA. If aliens exist, they wouldn't sit back and send radio waves, they'd be here, Zuckerman maintains. "We've had life here for billions of years. If they were studying the Earth, anybody with a modicum of curiosity is going to come," Zuckerman said. "They put all their eggs in one basket," Zuckerman said of SETI's limited search. "For 3 billion years there was life on Earth, it was just not sending out radio waves. They've closed the door to all this kind of life." SETI scientists are undaunted by such peer criticism. And their diligent work has spawned similar programs at Ohio State University, the University of California at Berkeley and Harvard. BETA, or Billion-Channel Extra-Terrestrial Assay, is another radio telescope sky-survey directed by Harvard physics Professor Paul Horowitz, who shares Drake's enthusiasm and dreams of success. "SETI is bound to succeed sooner or later," Horowitz said. How certain is he that life exists out there? "Absolutely 100 percent. But you know what they say about astrophysicists," he said. "Often in error, but never in doubt." Space Today | Visit the Space Coast | Next Launch | Explore the Archives Please e-mail comments or questions to FLORIDA TODAY's Space Online office. This World Wide Web site is copyright =A9 1997, FLORIDA TODAY.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Rebecca's Rant - Journals From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 19:16:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:20:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca's Rant - Journals > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, on 8/18/97 1:24 AM: > Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 22:41:52 -0500 (CDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: dstacy@texas.net (Dennis Stacy) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Rebecca's Rant > Dear List: > In response to the suggestions of Mark Cashman & others, this list is > fortunate in that at least two UFO journal editors are subscribers. I can't > speak for the other one (Jerry Clark of IUR), but here are my thoughts > about the MUFON Journal, in no particular order. (much snipped) Dennis, thanks for the comments. You're right about peer review, and I have to say that I have not found anything too far on the fringes in either your or Jerry's publications. So the comments weren't really directed at anyone in particular (except the comments on ads, but many magazines have ads I consider odd, but which don't keep me out of the magazine). > Now we come to editorial content, where my 'conservatism' (what I like to > think of as scientific objectivity) is not always appreciated. In general, > I'm hammered by both the left and right fringes of ufology pretty much > whatever I do. To my own personal disappointment, the middle ground (which > I consider the high ground) seems to have largely evaporated -- or to be > evaporating -- or maybe its members simply don't write letters to the > editor the way the more motivated end wings do. This is definitely a real problem. However, let me say here publicly (as one who has taken a few of the same kind of hits on the net), that I consider myself to be in the middle ground, and I am sure that there is a lurking majority which does. > At any rate, editing a UFO journal ain't no bed of roses. In fact, it's a > classic case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. The most recent > example: Do you denounce Corso as a patent, self-evident fraud (based on > your own reading of the book), or do you merely _report_ on Corso and the > events surrounding the publication of his book? Editorial page denunciation, content objective reporting, seems to me, just like a newspaper. Heck, then if I disagree, at least I know I'm disagreeing with the editor in his "opinion" mode rather than feeling I need to dislike the entire publication because I'm not sure if the editor is keeping opinion in his opinion pieces or not. And maybe you need a place to vent, too. > And what about Roswell in general? Where do you go for a peer review, to > Jesse Marcel, Jr.-- or the Air Force? Published authors on the subject? > It's a big, gargantuan, ungainly field. Maybe we ought to come out weekly? And there I thought you were overworked... :-) ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward man From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:46:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:25:58 -0400 Subject: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward man FREEDOM WRITER PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 28, 1997 CONTACT: Skipp Porteous (413) 528-3800 Robertson advocates stoning for UFO enthusiasts Great Barrington, MA -- In a recent pronouncement, television evangelist and head of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, advocated death by stoning for UFO enthusiasts. Freedom Writer magazine, in its July/August issue, mailed today, disclosed Robertson's statement. Freedom Writer is published by the Institute for First Amendment Studies, a group that monitors the right. Robertson used the news of the July 4th Mars landing to promote his extreme beliefs. A segment on the July 8, 1997 broadcast of The 700 Club featured news of the Mars Pathfinder mission. Employing the historical event as a starting point, the program delved into the possibility of the existence of UFOs and space aliens. While Robertson viewed the space program with suspicion, on a more serious note, he launched into a diatribe against those who entertain the existence of space aliens and UFOs. He said, in a rambling discourse, that if such things exist, they are simply demons trying to lead people away from Christ. According to Robertson, the threat is so serious that people who believe in space aliens should be put to death by stoning -- according to "God's word." "The Bible says the Earth belongs to man, but the heavens belong to the Lord," Robertson said. "He has given us the Earth. He also warned, way back when Moses was writing down not only what is the Ten Commandments, but Deuteronomy, which is almost the Second Law. "Here is what he said to the children of Israel about this whole matter: "'If there is found among you, within any of your gates which the Lord your God gives you, a man or a woman who has been wicked in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing His covenant, who has gone and served other gods and worshipped them, either the sun or moon or any of the hosts of heaven which I have not commanded you, and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination has been committed in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has committed that wicked thing, and stone to death that man or woman with stones.'" (Deuteronomy 17:2-5, NKJV) "Now, that's what Moses said to the children of Israel about those who worship the sun and the moon and the hosts of heaven, because these things, at best, are lifeless nothings, or, if they are intelligent, they're demonic. And, yes, there is a host of heaven. There are angels and there are fallen angels. There is no question about it." "Can a demon appear as a slanty-eyed, funny-looking creature? Of course he can, or it can. Of course they can deceive people. And if they can lead somebody away from the true God, or away from Jesus Christ, anyway it happens, it doesn't matter, you will lose your salvation. It doesn't matter how they get you. The question is, did they get you, and under what guise? "This is man in rebellion against God, who refuses to take God's Law. And God says, 'My covenant says you won't do this. And if I find anybody in Israel,'-- "which is his pure nation" -- 'If I find anybody in Israel that's doing this sort of thing, then I want you to take him out and dispose of him." "It's a clear violation of God's word." Skipp Porteous, Freedom Writer publisher, commented: "As the founder and chairman of the Christian Coalition -- a group dedicated to becoming the most powerful political force in America -- Robertson's extreme ideas need to be taken seriously, for they not only negate pluralism, but condemn to death those who dare to believe differently."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:28:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 22:08:43 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso >> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:18:53 -0400 >> From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Regarding... >> >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) >> >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Korff's Vendetta against Dilettoso >> James wrote: >> >>What's that thread-like object the Type-4 seems to be suspended >> >>from, Jim? >> The image was taken from a lengthy article published in "The Alien >> World", which originated as part of a magazine series called "The >> Unexplained". >> "The Alien World" was edited by a certain Peter Brookesmith. >James, >It seems, then, that we don't know the generational history of this print >or of its handling. Who obtained it from whom, was GSW involved or not, >how many anti-Meier-case hands did it pass through, who was the author >of the article, etc. >Have I not mentioned the key point before? In a case like the Meier case, >and especially the Meier case, in which so many egos would be bruised if >the truth of its genuineness could be more fully realized, one needs to >investigate the integrity, open-mindedness and motivations of the >investigator as much as that of the witness or contactee. There has been >a certain desperation to discredit the Meier case that has led some to >take whatever actions they deem necessary to be able to claim that one or >more photos are fakes. This is a sorry state of affairs for ufology. >Surely you know that back in the early 1980s one Kal Korff claimed that >another picture from the same series was hoaxed by Meier. In Frontiers of >Science, March-April, 1981, p. 31, he claimed the object was a model UFO >attached to a model tree. But in his pamphlet against the Meier case of >1981 he first suggested (middle of p. 8) that it was a model UFO in front >of a real tree, while on the same page he also suggested it was an overlay >of a negative of a UFO model with a negative of the background scenery. >His desperation was such as to cause him to suggest three different >hoaxing methods for the very same picture! And he continues to claim he >is only seeking the truth! In the meantime, the 2nd-generation film of >this same picture that Wendelle Stevens analyzed indicates by three >independent considerations that the UFO was a large object on the far side >of the tree, and these three considerations still stand unrefuted. >There is no reason to believe that Korff has been the only one to resort >to desperate claims or measures to try to debunk the Meier case. At >least, I see no reason to believe that. >Jim Deardorff Jim, I salute your precistence...but, those who have already become swayed to the "debunkers" reasoning will not now reverse themselves. It would be an admission of "being wrong." How many of them do you really think have the "courange" and "humility" to admit such. Not only that, but they would have to publicly appologize to Meier. Otherwise, they would only be offering "lip service" to their admissions. Hang in there Jim. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 19 Re: Wanted: aerospace background From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 23:41:13 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 01:41:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Wanted: aerospace background > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:14:17 +0100 > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Wanted: aerospace background > > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 07:59:50 +0200 (MET DST) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > > Subject: Wanted: aerospace background > > Maybe someone can me help me out with this. > > Yesterday I read in the magazine Flight International > > that a new aircraft development program is underway in the US, > > called FATE (Future Aircraft Technology Enhancement). > > > The purpose of FATE is to bring together technologies to > > build an unmanned military aircraft that would serve as > > a fighter. > > One of the goals is to increase the 'agility' of the aircraft > > compared to current fighters with twenty percent. > > Now where do UFOs come in? > > I have detailed knowledge of the close encounter between UFOs > > and Belgian F16's in March 1990. It was recorded on radar tape that > > one of the unknowns accelerated with 40 Gs. This is clear cut > > evidence for the ET origin of this vehicle, because terrestrial > > craft - fighters - have a maximum acceleration capacity of about > > 10 Gs, but effectively 9 Gs. > > The main reason for limiting it to 9 Gs has been the safety of > > the pilot, because a human can undergo 9 Gs for just > > a few seconds. > You are right about the pilots but wrong about the stress the aircraft > can sustain. The F16s can sustain Gs in the area of 18 to 20 Gs. Most > fighter aircraft easily maintain structural capability in excess of > the pilots "concious" limitations. If for instance in a combat > scenario a pilot blacked out during an extreme manouver the aircraft > would attempt to restabilize itself when the pilot went hands off. > Even light private aircraft will do this with built in "inherent > stability" and will hunt and try to get back to level flight. Military > aircraft do this with computers but both will crash after awhile if > the human hand is not brought into the picture. > I believe that there are military applications now that can tell when > the pilot is unconcious or disabled and will resume level flight, turn > to a friendly heading and plot a course for home. Airline jets do this > now and are capable of, once lined up on the runway, accelearting to > V1 then V2, climbing out, setting a course to destination lining up on > the runway and landing without the pilots help. > The new 777 has a wing G load before failure of over 7 Gs though noone > would expect the passengers to endure that. Aerobatic aircraft at > airshows such as the Pitts Special, a little bi-plane can sustain over > 12 Gs and a Russian monoplane used for the same reasons can sustain 22 > Gs, both negative and positive. > > In discussions with skeptics I have pointed this out and have > > stated that therefore the unknown above Belgium could not have > > been terrestrial. One of the counterarguments has been that > > perhaps it was a terrestrial, but unmanned craft. > > Now a question I would like to have answered. > > If we assume that 10 Gs is the maximum acceleration capacity > > of current fighters and the FATE program will increase the agility > > of the unmanned fighter with 20 percent, does that mean that > > the maximum acceleration of the FATE aircraft will be 12 Gs? > As I mentioned this is wrong so your increase would be to 24 Gs plus. > I would bet on ranges more in the range of 26 to 30 Gs for unpiloted > fighters if not more. There is no limit to the technology but as of > yet for their own reasons the airforces of certain countries have only > gotten into unpiloted vehicles in a limited fashion. > Still that is not 40 Gs nor 200 Gs as have been alluded to by Paul R. > Hill in his book" Unconventional Flying Objects". Re Acceleration, there is published data showing that a trained pilot can perform a tracking task while being accelerated at 14 Gs for 2 minutes. Properly constrained one can stand 30Gs for one second. Colonel Stapp survived 43 Gs in going from over 600mph to zero.. in a hurry. Depends on duration and direction and training. Stan Friedman..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 19 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Scientific Ufology From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 23:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 01:43:41 -0400 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Scientific Ufology > Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 21:32:52 -0700 > From: Ed Stewart <egs@NETCOM.COM> > Subject: Scientific Ufology > To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > Hello list members, > Mr. Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos has asked me to disseminate the > following information on a Foundation legally created in Spain to > sponsor UFO research. Please pass the following amongst your contacts > and UFO bulletins. The CUADERNOS DE UFOLOGIA has been a world class > publication on UFO phenomena for over a decade. > Sincerelly, > Ed Stewart > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > THE ANOMALY FOUNDATION: SCIENTIFIC UFOLOGY GETS ORGANIZED > By Vicente-Juan BALLESTER OLMOS > Research Director, Anomaly Foundation > I often have to shake my head at the degree of synchronicity that seems to permeate the day-to-day experiences in this field. Steve Bassett Search for other documents from or mentioning: sgblist2 | egs |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 19 Re: Crop Circle Connector #38 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 05:24:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 01:45:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Crop Circle Connector #38 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #38 Members = 2119 What's New on the Crop Circle Connector. We are sorry for the duplicate emails sent to some of you, this is caused by a SMTP command rejected while talking to post.demon.co.uk: RCPT TO: 451 Mail system problem. The result is that many of you have not received this Mailing List #38. The engineers at Demon Internet took till today to fix this email fault and we were unable to send out the Mailing List to everyone! Friday 15th August ********************************************* We would like to apologise to all of our readers on the Mailing List for the delay in updating the Crop Circle Connector. The work load had become increasingly heavier during the last couple of weeks, as this is the busiest time for the 1997 Crop Circle Season. Once again we apologise! ****************************************************** New Formations at Badbury Castle, Nr Swindon. A cluster of formations once again adorn the slopes of Badbury, or as some say Liddington Castle. A nice selection of formations some located in the same field as the 1996 shapes. See Crop Circles 1997 With aerial shots included ****************************************************** New Formations at Etchilhampton. Finally we can confirm the formations below the hillside at Etchilhampton, and what a diverse selection they are! and extremely impressive. Take a look! See Crop Circles 1997 With aerial shots included ***************************************************** New Formation at Southease, East Sussex The second formation to appear in Sussex, a little quiet I feel down there. **************************************************** New Formation at Forton, Nr Shrewsbury. A neat Dumbell, situated southside of A5. **************************************************** New Formation at Servington, in Kent. *************************************************** New Formation in Earlswood Nr Solihull (Birmingham) ************************************************* We have now added an aerial shot of the formation south of Warminster, Wiltshire *************************************************** Leimuiden, in Holland (North) has a new formation, from the photograph it resembles an early design from 1990-91. See Inter Crop Circles 1997 **************************************************** All the best Stuart & Mark * The Koch Fractal, Silbury Hill, 1997 :/\: .-- --. . :\ /: . *__/\__/ \__/\__* :\ /: ./__ __\. Mark Fussell: ':\ /:' mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk .'__/ \__'. \ / Subscribe: :/_ __ __ _\: news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles * :\/: \ / :\/: * . :/ \: . The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: .-- --. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html :\/: *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 19 Re: UFO's Flying Over East River - N.Y.C. From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 02:20:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:23:51 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO's Flying Over East River - N.Y.C. >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] >Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 05:52:21 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO's Flying Over East River - N.Y.C. >Hi Errol, hi all: >It's good to be back again. I just wanted to tell all of you (especially >John Velez) that those reddish colored UFO's are back again. A >neighbor of mine and I saw them flying over the East River here on >Manhattan Island. I saw them once before, but I wasn't sure of what >they were. This time, I can actually report that they didn't look like >balloons. They were flying lower than the first time I'd seen them. Hiya Linda, hi All, Linda, call me the moment you have a sighting. If they were crossing the east river (in a direction away from you) it means that they were headed my way! You should keep a camera ready with fresh film and charged batteries. Also, if the sighting was at night, bear in mind that there are busy landing patterns for Laguardia that fly near to your location headed for Queens. Airplanes have red lights too. If it was a daylight sighting then that's a whole other ballgame. I tried several months ago to organize a summer skywatch over NYC I'm really sorry to report that NO-ONE responded. It would be great to be able to try to identify, track and triangulate these buggers. I cannot do that alone. Just this sunday I heard of two sightings (by the same person) near the Brooklyn bridge/Promenade area of Brooklyn. One of the 'objects' that this person saw winked on and off (brightened and dimmed) in a stationary position over a building adjascent to the witnesses. The other sighting involves two red lights moving in close formation over the east river towards the Brooklyn/Queens side. This individual would not want to be publicly identified with "UFO" sightings. It's ok, the important thing is to document the sighting. The sad part is that when this individual reached out for information as to what to do, the person recieved what amounted to completely useless mumbo-jumbo for a response. This individual was left not only disturbed by the sightings but confused by the advice which followed. (Old axiom: If you don't know what your talking about, keep your mouth shut!) <G> There _are_ UFO's flying over NY. We need more eyes on the skies! Report your sighting to CUFOS or an equivalent group Linda. It's important to get these reports into the database that some of these groups are compiling. Someone else may have seen and reported the same thing. Unless you report it,... no-one will ever know. John Velez John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 19 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 03:33:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:26:05 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:46:35 -0700 >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >To: Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Christian Coalition and good will toward man >FREEDOM WRITER PRESS RELEASE >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 28, 1997 >CONTACT: Skipp Porteous (413) 528-3800 >Robertson advocates stoning for UFO enthusiasts >Great Barrington, MA -- In a recent pronouncement, television evangelist >and head of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, advocated death by >stoning for UFO enthusiasts. Pat Robertson must be 'stoned!' <evil demon possessed grin> I never talk about this because I'm really not a religious man. I don't belong to or believe in ANY organized religion. I do consider my self a spiritual person however. I attended an Interfaith seminary for two years and was ordained at the Methodist Sanctuary here in NY. I am also an abductee. I am not now, nor have I ever been possessed by anything other than my banker, (who holds the mortgage on my shack) and a penchant for really good herb, fast women, and slow horses! Yes folks, I am a sinner, but I'm not demon possessed. My weaknesses are of the garden variety 'Human' type. Fundamentalists like Robertson scare me much more than William Coopers guntoting paranoid paratroopers. A fundamentalist Christian will shoot a guy like me in the head in the name of the Lord Jesus in a NY minute. Whereas, I'd have to wave a federal subpoena in the face of one of Coopers guys before tempting fate. Christians have commited more sins against humanity in the name of the Lord than any other single religious group or order. Historical fact. Guys like Robertson are deranged, plain and simple. How he can rationalize advocating murder with his professed belief in "brotherly love" is something only a pure and classic, textbook schizophrenic can pull off. (Or a TV preacher!) I told Errol two years ago that I feared a Fundamentalist with a gun who's on a "mission from God" (to eradicate people that they may percieve as an alien co-conspirator) much more than I feared the CIA or one of those groups. Articles like this only re-inforce my original feeling. Uhhh Pat, I believe the Bible also says somewhere, "thou shalt not kill" and, "Vengence is mine sayeth the Lord" How doth thee reconcile (that) with thine pronouncements? What say ye to that brother? It's a long drop from that high horse that this combination of sperm and ova that calls itself 'Robertson' is so precariously perched up on. If he's anything like the others he'll be on TV begging the congegations forgivness for screwing goats or some such nonsense eventually. Oh and please Pat, if you or any of your many followers should see me, throw money or concert tickets for the Allman Bros.Band, not rocks! <G> Thanking all 700 Club members in advance, John Velez, Alien Spawn John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Scientific Ufology From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Tuesday, 19 August 1997 8:39am MT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:12:55 -0400 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Scientific Ufology >From: SGBList2@aol.com >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 23:15:19 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: PROJECT-1947 - Scientific Ufology ------------------------------------------------------------------- > THE ANOMALY FOUNDATION: SCIENTIFIC UFOLOGY GETS ORGANIZED > By Vicente-Juan BALLESTER OLMOS > Research Director, Anomaly Foundation > Interesting Idea. For years now complaints have been registered that Ufology is not a science or does not abide by the protocols of science. At the same time most of the scientific community shunned Ufology as unscientific or unworthy of scientific attention apriori. If an accredited college or university were to offer a degree in Ufology, what subjects would become a part of the curriculum? We can get an inkling of how of how interdisciplinary a science Ufology would be - psychology, biology, physics, mathematics, engineering, photography, agriculture, computer science, and many sub-disciplines. Why, a Ufologist could become one of the most educated persons in the world. Would scientific Ufology stop the bickering and the arguing? Not at all. Witness other scientific disciplines. Witness the arguements over cometary snowballs suggested by Dr. Louis Frank or the recent proposal that our universe has a preferred direction in the constellation of Sextans. The arguments are just elevated to another level of sophistication. In the end, the believers believe and the sceptics remain unconvinced...unless we pursue knowledge as an egoless enterprise, interested only in a very careful search for the truth. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 UpDates Off-Line Until Sunday Evening - 08-24-97 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:24:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:24:55 -0400 Subject: UpDates Off-Line Until Sunday Evening - 08-24-97 Gentle Subscribers, 'Work' - i.e. Funding for my Life - gets in the way again..... Periodically I need to recharge the coffers here and the next few days will infuse some much needed 'readies'. My work days usually consist of 18 hours plus and much as I'd like to take a computer with me and remotely administer the List, sleep needs to play a small part in the work schedule. Please feel free to respond to current threads but try and hang on to new thoughts and subjects until Sunday morning. Thanks for your understanding and interest in UFO UpDates. Errol
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Rudloe Manor Review From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 04:54:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:37:02 -0400 Subject: Rudloe Manor Review Brian McMullan wrote: A review of the lecture by Matthew Williams and Richard Conway. "UFOs and Underground Bases" - Rudloe Manor Venue: Caperceilidh Pub, Stirling, Scotland Time : Monday 4th August 1997 - 7.30 p.m. Speakers : Matthew Williams & Richard Conway Organised by Malcolm Robinson of S.P.I.. =A32.00 entrance on door. Only S.P.I. members attended. The Flyer for the talk said: "Photographs and video footage that will shock you" and "Aims to be one of the most interesting talks S.P.I. have put on this year". THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO MATTHEW. As I entered the back room of the Caperceilidh along with 23 members of S.P.I., I couldn't help but notice the young intense looking man in the corner beside the projector screen. He posed as he mumbled down a mobile. He certainly looked the part. This was Matthew, but first the multitude were to be treated to a talk by a follower of Matthew's, a young man named Richard. After 18 years in Ufology I sat waiting to be shocked. Richard began to show us slides taken underground at Rudloe. These were just what you would expect from a disused underground fall-out shelter. Large rooms and lift shafts encased in solid concrete. It was also blatantly obvious that these areas had been abandoned for quite some time. Richard discussed at length how a witness and workers at the complex had convinced him that files on UFOs were stored at Rudloe. He said Matthew and himself had chased around seven government departments searching for these files. Various departments denied knowledge of these files. This somehow fuelled their suspicions, helping to prove certain departments were hiding something. What a load of bollocks! It's called "red tape run-around" and "passing the buck" and Richard should know it's very common in ALL government departments. Whilst trying to convince himself, and us, Richard lit up the projector screen with more concrete walls. The shots of concrete would have done Glasgow University Building and Civil Engineering Dept. proud. I still wasn't in a state of shock. Then again, this may be due to the fact that Glasgow has concrete walls here and there and I might be accustomed to them. Richard then spent a considerable time explaining how the manor was up for sale on the "Fallout Shelter Market", I presume. Rudloe was almost sold, then wasn't. This was obviously a trick to make it seem like nobody in authority cared if it was sold. Ah! Could be secret files stored in that place because they didn't sell it after all! The plot thickens and deepens, a bit like the lift shafts! As Richard spoke he occasionally checked with Matthew to make sure he was getting his story right. Matthew coolly nodded and Richard continued. One hour into the Rudloe secret concrete and I was becoming claustrophobic. Richard ended his part of the talk and handed over to Matthew Williams. As he began his talk I was hoping that now, at last, we would see those shocking slides. Sadly I was mistaken. God, was I mistaken. More concrete was lighting up the back room of the pub. I was just about to etch my name on the screen when suddenly a slide appeared that wasn't concrete! It was a picture of a person posing very similar to an Animal Rights protester doing a cheap publicity shot. The face was covered but the combat jacket etc. was posing like a haddock in a fishmonger's window. I am not a member of MENSA, but I was getting the impression my intelligence was being insulted. It was at this point that I began to challenge every claim Williams was making. I wasn't too polite about it either. I had made a round trip of 50 odd miles, as other members of S.P.I. had done and my patience was running out. This began to agitate Malcolm Robinson to the point when every time I quizzed Williams, big Malky would jump to his feet and attempt to shout me down. Malky was spouting that I should wait until "Question Time" or speak to Williams in private later on at the bar. Sadly Malky's outbursts were enabling Williams to get off the hook and giving him ample time to think of a reply. I'll explain why I didn't wish to wait until "Question Time". It is my experience that question time can be left so late that there isn't much time and / or most of the audience leaves early to catch transport home. The claims were made openly so why not the challenges to these claims? According to some people in Ufology, I was adept at pressing home my points on Grampian Television's "We The Jury". These same people should therefore understand that I won't change my attitude when questioning claims on the other side of the coin. Williams believed that there were no aliens or craft within Rudloe but was adamant there were files on UFOs stored in the place? I asked him wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to store information on CD-Roms? All the UFO info within the UK could easily be held on a small number of CDs, in a small safe, in a small office, in a small building in, for example, the Whitehall area. Seems like a good centralised point and would be pretty difficult for amateurs intent on getting at them. Williams agreed, then explained the first of the Rudloe "double bluff" bit. Maybe that's what we are meant to believe! He immediately entered the next slide which, yet again, didn't shock me. This showed a rather stout middle-aged private security man, standing at an open gate presumably at an entrance to Rudloe. Williams stated that this man was happy to talk to him and a TV crew at the gate until Williams mentioned UFOs. The guard then became uninterested in the conversation , closed the gate and walked away. According to Williams this again was proof that the very mention of UFOs creates a cover-up type silence. Wrong! The man probably thought all was well until UFOs were mentioned. He then became annoyed and embarrassed. Any decent investigator will tell you that this is common with some people. The particular guard wouldn't be trained to confront a TV crew in any event. I challenged Williams as to the condition of the middle-aged guard and where were the crack security troops to guard such important files. His reply was simple (now comes the Rudloe Double Bluff bit): by using the private security guards, it would look like there was nothing important kept at Rudloe Manor. You know something, Matthew? They're probably right! After the guard slide we got some air vents and then more concrete. Williams now explained how he and his team sneaked into Rudloe, moved along lift shafts, stood in large concrete bay areas, photographed these, set off alarms, heard shots fired and made their escape with a camera load of interesting pictures. I suggest the following is more likely: Williams and his team entered the area easily simply because nobody really gives a monkey's about sealing off the whole area. Nobody cares if you photograph concrete walls. The alarm didn't bring NATO commandos simply because the security guards are sick of complaining that the old alarm in that area still hasn't been disconnected. The shots fired? That's an easy one. One of the security men on his lunch hour sits around reading his favourite tabloid and devouring large amounts of beans. The man breaks wind all over the place. Consider the amount of concrete in the place and how the reverberation could promote the sound of gunfire. Depending on the condition of the man's bowels this could inform the escaping team as to whether this was automatic fire or single shot. When I was younger in the 50s, there were old air raid shelters still standing from W.W.2. Old concrete buildings large and small. We played at soldiers in them until they were eventually demolished. Now in the 90s we have old fall-out shelters and underground towns left over from the cold war days. Some originated from W.W.2 and were adapted to suit. Unlike the shelters I played in as a child, these underground areas are so large that private security companies are put in charge to keep people out for their own safety. They more or less keep any eye on the place until someone finds a use for it. There may also be a very real health risk to anyone entering certain areas within this complex. This might even explain why nobody appeared in the area where the alarm sounded. I should say that when I played happily in those old W.W.2 shelters I was only 9/10 years old and none the wiser. SECRET FILES AT RUDLOE....? Matthew Williams and Richard Conway did not convince me that there are secret files on UFOs stored in Rudloe. To be honest, they didn't look too sure themselves. Matthew informed us all that he was thinking of writing a book on his findings at Rudloe! Personally, Matthew, if I were you I wouldn't waste trees, time and energy. You simply don't have enough concrete evidence. WILLIAMS & CONWAY'S SCATHING ATTACK ON PHILIP MANTLE The unprovoked attack on Philip Mantle's character had absolutely nothing to do with the Rudloe Manor talk. The fact that Williams and Conway chose to blacken the man's name during this talk to a captive audience is the reason why I chose to enter it for the record. The slides of grey concrete had failed to shock the 23 S.P.I. members. Obviously bitching off about someone who was 300 miles away and could not defend himself, did create the shock we were promised. The bitching began when Williams inserted a really silly video film, taken from the Internet, showing a sleepy alien mask with torches shining on the mask. Yes! I am sure we've all seen or heard about it. While pressing the start button Williams mumbled a sarcastic remark about the Santilli film. A member of the audience laughed and asked if the comment had anything to do with the fact that Williams was spearheading an attack on Philip's character? Williams replied that: "PHILIP MANTLE WAS ACCUSED OF MISCONDUCT WITHIN BUFORA, WAIT TILL SEPTEMBER AND ALL WILL BE REVEALED!". Seemingly the boys and girls of the BUFORA council will be the judge and jury of our wayward Phil. The man asked Williams to explain the MISCONDUCT as it sounded quite serious? Had Phil nicked lots of money? Williams replied "no", to this. The man laughed and explained that you can't condemn a man who has obviously been an asset to BUFORA over the years? The conferences have been brilliant, the speakers were brilliant and as for the Santilli film, Phil should be congratulated for moving in before anybody else. Like it or not, this film created interest for Ufology all around the world. And every time Phil helped to promote it BUFORA got a mention. Williams replied, "OH YES, HE HAS DONE SOME GREAT THINGS, I CAN'T DENY THAT! BUT IF A MAN PUTS A GUN TO ANOTHER MAN'S HEAD AND PULLS THE TRIGGER, HE THEN UNDOES ALL THE GOOD HE HAS DONE". Wow! Don't tell me Phil has shot someone?? "WAIT TILL SEPTEMBER AND SEE", was Williams' reply. Rendlesham Forest was mentioned by Richard Conway and so was their friend Larry Warren. The man in the audience found that strange as Larry gets on well with Phil. The reply from Williams was: "LARRY WARREN CAN'T STAND PHILIP MANTLE. HE TOLD US THIS HIMSELF". Conway nodded his head in agreement. There is a lesson to all this bitchy stuff. Should you wish to attend a meeting or talk or even a real lecture on Rudloe Manor, please remember to bring along your knitting! I would advise Phil to do the same when he attends his big trial in September. For anyone whose interested, a good concrete mix is: 1 cement - 2 building sand - 4 gravel. For anyone wishing to obtain a good knitting pattern? I have a sneaky feeling the best ones are stored at Rudloe. As my Uncle Fred used to say to my Auntie Jessie: "AWAY AND BILE YER HEID!".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 The New World UFOrder From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 97 03:59:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:38:49 -0400 Subject: The New World UFOrder As I've watched the course of topics here it has occurred to me that things can be grouped by classification and subgroups. I think everyone can find his place in the hierarchy. In effect the idea allows for specialization. I think some folks will be grateful for the idea. I know I am, even though I am the one that thunk it up. Now don't go thinking this is some sort of New World UFOrder come to take away your freedom cause it ain't! The whole thing is designed to bring together a World UFOfamily. It's a planetary UFOmanefesto. Let's get started. The Nominated leaders are my choice as an example. The final decision is yours. This is YOUR freely elected UFOgovernment we are talking about here, so be serious cause you only get one vote or opinion or whatever the heck you have. UFOlogy - UFOlogist One who studies all of UFOlogy. A redundant position. Nominated leader: Art Bell UFOgeology - UFOgeologist UFOtopoligist UFOastrogeographer UFOpyramidoloist UFOgeometrist UFOhyperbologist One who knows where he is and where everything else is but not why. Nominated leader: Richard Hoagland UFOsceptology - UFOsceptic - UFOskeptic One who doubts UFOlogy even though he is subgrouped. Nominated Leader: Philip Klass UFOresearcher - UFOfieldologist One who get's out and digs, digs, digs, & does it again never failing to find the truth pro or con. Nominated Leader: The United States Air Force UFOpro - UFOexploitologist UFOconartologist One who see's UFO as a sure bet for a profit. Nominated Leader: Media, especially during sweeps week. UFOironyology - UFOupperlipologist One who is able to express in no loose terms the irony of UFO in an autopsyicle context without having ever seen the reason why. Nominated leader: Bob Shell UFOrtianology - UFOrtian One who collects, correlates, and despenses vast amounts of UFOdata. Nominated leader: BUFO UFOideologist - UFOnerd UFOgeek UFOfanatic UFOnewby UFOlurker UFObeliever UFO.Alfred.E.Newman UFOElvis One who eat's, sleep's, and never tires of UFO stuff. Nominated leader: None. These are the followers. UFOhumorology - UFOhowfunny UFOgrins UFOwhatfun One who see's humor in it all and risks the guillotine in spite of the fact he likes to eat cake. Nominated leader: Chris Carter There is room for many, many more. Adding them is up to you. The above is all that is needed to bring in The New World UFOrder. All you have to do is figure out your position in it or face the conquernsenses when the Aliens land. The only other hope you have is The Tri-lateral UFOmission. You have been warned! "Some animals are more equal than other animals" The above is (S)wipeitright 1997 by Pat Parrinello This may not be copied by any means other than all known forms of reproduction except sexual, and including but not limited to: Semaphore, Summarian clay tablets, Satellite transmissions, coded Cajun duck calls, Indian Smoke signals, Very Long Wave secret Navy submarine communications or rap music or by remote viewing, reverse text or spoken as reverse speech, or used as oratory at Lions club conventions without the expressed regret & remorse of the author. ~Pat~ http://www.crossfields.com/~pparri
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:39:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:36:30 -0800 > To: updates@globalserve.net (Errol Bruce-Knapp - UFO Updates) > From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) > Subject: Re: re: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update August 17, > 1997 Paul, > Also, lab testing by the BLT team in Michigan had been showing that some > "formations" which look more like lodging or wind damage, show similar > changes to the plant nodes, etc. as in more "regular" formations. What does this tell you about BLT's criteria for 'genuineness'? > What many researchers call "magic bending" of the nodes is usually just > phototropism, a natural bending of the plants back upwards toward the > light (sun) after they have been flattened. With CPR's Colin Andrews now publicly accepting that people can flatten brittle stalks without breaking them, where does this leave *any* criteria for 'genuineness'? Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:58:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:41:22 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward > Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 03:33:32 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward= man > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:46:35 -0700 > >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > >To: Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: The Christian Coalition and good will toward man > >FREEDOM WRITER PRESS RELEASE > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 28, 1997 > >CONTACT: Skipp Porteous (413) 528-3800 > >Robertson advocates stoning for UFO enthusiasts > >Great Barrington, MA -- In a recent pronouncement, television evangelist > >and head of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, advocated death by > >stoning for UFO enthusiasts. > Oh and please Pat, if you or any of your many followers should see me, > throw money or concert tickets for the Allman Bros.Band, not rocks! <G> > Thanking all 700 Club members in advance, > John Velez, Alien Spawn > John Velez > jvif@spacelab.net It is my position that the more fundamentalism you embrace the closer to the lip of hell you are actually standing. Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: The 'Tongue-Eater' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Aug 97 09:35:58 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:42:09 -0400 Subject: Re: The 'Tongue-Eater' >From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> >To: "'Errol Bruce-Knapp'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The 'Tongue-Eater' >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:36:13 -0400 Interesting report. When I knew Ivan Sanderson and Bernard Heuvelmans in the 60s, I knew they had files on similar reports from that time period in Argentina. Many cattle had been found killed by having their tongues ripped out, according to these reports, but there was a singular lack of blood. This lack of blood has lead people who find such cattle to think that the blood has been sucked out. Some of the Argentine reports from that time period were linked to sasquatch-like creatures. I don't know if any of this material ever made it into print. Some of the cryptozoologists may be familiar with this. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Aug 97 09:35:59 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:42:38 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 15:26:18 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 So Vince, Go ahead and report me to the BBB! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Aug 97 09:36:21 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:44:00 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:46:35 -0700 >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >To: Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Christian Coalition and good will toward man This crap is scary! BTW, you all should know that any TV station which broadcasts any program advocating violence against any group is in violation of FCC regulations and subject to having its charter revoked. If any station in your area carries The 700 Club, I suggest you make a call to the station manager and point this out. It wouldn't hurt to also write a letter of protest to the FCC. Advocating murder has no place on TV. Robertson wants to be the next Hitler, and don't think "it can't happen here." It could. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: On natural relationships and UFOs From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Aug 97 09:36:25 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:45:34 -0400 Subject: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs >From: "Chris Rutkowski" <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:28:52 CST >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs Chris, >Now here's an interesting conundrum. Any debunker worth his >or her salt knows that "Moon Madness" is a complete fiction and that >there is no scientific evidence to suggest that the Moon has any real >effect on us. Yet, if it could be shown that there was a correlation >between Moon phase and the number of UFO reports, it might help to >explain why people report UFOs if we assumed some sort of effect. I suggest that no correlation was found because the "researchers" who did these studies "knew" beforehand that there could be none, and so their research proved this. My information is anecdotal from psychologists, and suggests that all who work with the seriously disturbed know that there is a correlation, but don't talk about it much since it is considered quackery. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:40:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:47:58 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward > Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 03:33:32 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward man > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:46:35 -0700 > >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > >To: Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: The Christian Coalition and good will toward man > >FREEDOM WRITER PRESS RELEASE > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 28, 1997 > >CONTACT: Skipp Porteous (413) 528-3800 > >Robertson advocates stoning for UFO enthusiasts > >Great Barrington, MA -- In a recent pronouncement, television evangelist > >and head of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, advocated death by > >stoning for UFO enthusiasts. > Pat Robertson must be 'stoned!' <evil demon possessed grin> > I never talk about this because I'm really not a religious man. I don't > belong to or believe in ANY organized religion. I do consider my self a > spiritual person however. Hello John and List, Me too. > I am not now, nor have I ever been possessed by anything other > than my banker, (who holds the mortgage on my shack) and a penchant for > really good herb, fast women, and slow horses! Yes folks, I am a sinner, > but I'm not demon possessed. My weaknesses are of the garden variety > 'Human' type. > Fundamentalists like Robertson scare me much more than William Coopers > guntoting paranoid paratroopers. A fundamentalist Christian will shoot > a guy like me in the head in the name of the Lord Jesus in a NY minute. > Whereas, I'd have to wave a federal subpoena in the face of one of Coopers > guys before tempting fate. Christians have commited more sins against > humanity in the name of the Lord than any other single religious group or > order. Historical fact. Amen brother. Not to mention fundamentalist Islamic groups..fanatics. Fanatics in any sense of the word really piss me off. > Guys like Robertson are deranged, plain and simple. How he can rationalize > advocating murder with his professed belief in "brotherly love" is > something only a pure and classic, textbook schizophrenic can pull off. (Or > a TV preacher!) These guys only get as far as they do because they have enogh people stupid enough to follow them and support them, and I mean in the millions. > I told Errol two years ago that I feared a Fundamentalist with a gun who's > on a "mission from God" (to eradicate people that they may percieve as an > alien co-conspirator) much more than I feared the CIA or one of those > groups. Articles like this only re-inforce my original feeling. > Uhhh Pat, I believe the Bible also says somewhere, "thou shalt not kill" > and, "Vengence is mine sayeth the Lord" How doth thee reconcile (that) with > thine pronouncements? What say ye to that brother? Save your breath John. It is no sin to kill Satan. Remember you, me and the rest who delve into this field are all "spawn of Satan". I'll betcha Galileo had to put up with the same crap from the Holy Church in Rome as we are hearing now before it really got serious for him. > It's a long drop from that high horse that this combination of sperm and > ova that calls itself 'Robertson' is so precariously perched up on. If he's > anything like the others he'll be on TV begging the congegations forgivness > for screwing goats or some such nonsense eventually. Pity it couldn't be for fleecing people out of their pension money under the threat of eternal damnation by the Almighty if they don't give till it hurts...or starves them to death. > Oh and please Pat, if you or any of your many followers should see me, > throw money or concert tickets for the Allman Bros.Band, not rocks! <G> > Thanking all 700 Club members in advance, > John Velez, Alien Spawn What he said.. Don Ledger.. stuck in a motel room.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:03:32 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:49:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:36:30 -0800 > To: updates@globalserve.net (Errol Bruce-Knapp - UFO Updates) > From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) > Subject: Re: re: Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Update August 17, 1997 > >> FIRST CANADIAN CROP CIRCLES OF 1997! > >> Three circles reported near Raymore, Saskatchewan > >... and which were shown on a TV news program last week. The RCMP and > >some farmers thought they were nothing more than lodging. They didn't > >look like much on film, either. > I simply put out the initial report, to make the information known to people. > The fellow I spoke with (who called me last Friday) said he heard an RCMP > officer interviewed on a radio news program out of Moosejaw who said that > at least he thought they *were* unusual. I am trying to get more facts on this . > You *cannot* make a solid judgement based on one intial viewing on TV. I didn't say I *had* made any "solid judgement". I'm open to the possibility that some circles are real. After investrigating dozens of circles, this one didn't look that good of a case to me. > Also, lab testing by the BLT team in Michigan had been showing that some > "formations" which look more like lodging or wind damage, show similar > changes to the plant nodes, etc. as in more "regular" formations. These type > of formations are actually sometimes found in the same field as another "good" Well, I like many people, have trouble with Levengood's analyses, so this doesn't mean very much, I'm afraid. But I keep searching for good evidence and incontrovertible evidence of anomalies, so I keep watching for reports of anomalies in the media. > formations, including the "pictograms". Features like this need to be followed > up on and studied, even if they do turn out to have completely prosaic > explanations. BLT themselves have stressed this. What many researchers call > "magic bending" of the nodes is usually just phototropism, a natural bending o f > the plants back upwards toward the light (sun) after they have been flattened. At least they're acknowledging that. > Unfortunately, in this case, it looks like sampling / testing won't be > possible (as > the circles are on an Indian reservation and they are not allowing anyone on t o > the property, other than initially the RCMP). That's too bad. The aerial shots showed that the crop had already been swathed, too, so that would hamper further investigation and testing. It's odd that they're not allowing investigators there. I've been invited onto reservation land many times to look into cases of various kinds. I wonder what their reasoning might be. > What news program were these on? I would like to see the video / photos if > possible. Hmmm. It was CTV, probably coming from their Regina or Saskatoon affiliate. No other network carried it that I saw, and nothing appeared in any newspaper. Because I had just been surfing channels, I didn't have a videotape ready. Keep up the great work, though! Your dedication and investigative action is exactly what this field (pun intended) needs! -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:50:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 18:14:37 -0400 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >So, there is apparently a reason for doubting Marcel's reported >comments. Absolutely. His REPORTED comments. >>There are three different version of the interview floating around, >>all of them traceable back to Moore. >>In 1980 when Johnny Mann of New Orleans TV station WWL interviewed >>Marcel, he showed those pictures to Marcel who told him that they >>didn't show the real debris. There is no credible evidence that >>Marcel ever said that if he was in the picture it was the real >>debris. >For reference, this is the verbatim story attributed to Major Marcel >in "The Roswell Incident": >"Just after we got to Carswell, Fort Worth, we were told to bring some >of this stuff up to the general's office - that he wanted to take a >look at it. We did this and spread it out on the floor on some brown >paper. >What we had was only a very small portion of the debris - there was >a whole lot more. There was half a B-29-ful outside. General Ramey >allowed some members of the press to take a picture of this stuff. >They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the >less-interesting metallic debris. The press was allowed to photograph >this, but were not allowed far enough into the room to touch it. The >stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we had found. >It was not a staged photo. Later, they cleared out our wreckage and >substituted some of their own Then they allowed more photos. Those >photos were taken while the actual wreckage was already on its way to >Wright Field. I was not in these. I believe these were taken with the >general and one of his aides". If you look at the uncropped versions of the pictures of Marcel you can plainly see that it is the same as that in the pictures of Ramey and Dubose, of Ramey, and of Irving Newton. So, all seven pictures taken in Ramey's office show the same debris, which is, quite clearly, the remains of a weather balloon and rawin target. Bill Moore, in attacking the work I had been doing, sent to several researchers, copies of his interview with Marcel. In that version it said, "There was half a B-29 full outside. General [Roger Maxwell] Ramey allowed the press in to take TWO pictures of this stuff. I WAS IN ONE, AND HE AND COL. DUBOSE WERE IN THE OTHER. [emphasis added]." In the article "Three Hours That Shook The Press," FOCUS, new series, Vol. 5, nos. 4-6, June 30, 1990, Jaime Shandera and Moore wrote, "In his interview with Moore, Maj. Marcel maintained the debris in the TWO photos with him were the real stuff." These changes were made because of the discovery of additional photographs, and the fact that when you looked at the uncropped pictures, it was clear that all held the same debris. I don't know where Moore got the idea that Marcel claimed he was in any photographs with the real stuff because he apparently never said that to anyone else. I asked Stan Friedman and Len Stringfield, both of whom interviewed Marcel on more than one occasion about this and both said that Marcel had never claimed to be in pictures with the real debris. All of this has been covered in THE ROSWELL REPORT published by CUFOS, in IUR and some of it was reported in the MUFON JOURNAL. > It would be helpful to clarify this definitively, it makes a >significant difference to the perspective. >Is it agreed that all the photographs show the same debris and that >no switch could therefore have taken place? The switch with the debris took place BEFORE any photographs were taken. Ramey saw some of the real debris, but the stuff on the floor, on the brown paper, was the remains of a weather balloon and rawin target. >If that's the case, then there is presumably no debate that either, >all of the photographs show some of the debris Marcel recovered, or >all of them show substituted, bogus debris. I believe that nearly everyone believes that the photographs show bogus debris. The only ones holding that Marcel was in pictures with the real stuff are Moore, Shandera, and their supporters. >Kevin, much is made of the claim that Brazel was forced to change his >story. What exactly did he change? >We know he reportedly later said the debris was recovered on June >14th, rather than the "some days before" generalisation reported >elsewhere, but I can't see what difference that made at the time. >It was also later reported that, "when the debris was gathered up the >tinfoil, paper, tape and sticks made a bundle about three feet long". >Is that what's considered to be a major change in his story? All of that comes from the July 9 article in the Roswell Daily Record. Brazel told others, including family, that he had found the stuff only a day or so before he went into the sheriff. He changed the description of the debris, and he changed the amount of debris at the time. The difference is, if you have a real event and you are trying to hide it you change as much as you can to divert attention. Changing the date shows that what Brazel found wasn't all that important because he didn't even bother to alert anyone until two or three weeks after he had found it. Hope this helps. KRandle E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Wanted: aerospace background From: werd@interlog.com Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:52:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Wanted: aerospace background >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 23:41:13 -0300 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Wanted: aerospace background >> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:14:17 +0100 >> From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Wanted: aerospace background >> > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 07:59:50 +0200 (MET DST) >> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >> > Subject: Wanted: aerospace background >> > Maybe someone can me help me out with this. >> > Yesterday I read in the magazine Flight International >> > that a new aircraft development program is underway in the US, >> > called FATE (Future Aircraft Technology Enhancement). >> > The purpose of FATE is to bring together technologies to >> > build an unmanned military aircraft that would serve as >> > a fighter. >> > One of the goals is to increase the 'agility' of the aircraft >> > compared to current fighters with twenty percent. >> > Now where do UFOs come in? [Mega snip] Don't know, however I was watching (CNN?) the other night and they were demonstrating the X,(?) F(?)-39, an unmanned jet aircraft which looked like a fighter plane. I believe the plane was a 1/2 scale model, and it was flown by remote control from the ground. The interesting thing about this plane is that it had no rudder, or vertical tail fin. Sorry for the inexactness of this post and my lack of proper aeronautical terms, but perhaps those more familiar with the aviation industry could comment. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:08:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:53:00 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward >>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:46:35 -0700 >>From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >>To: Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: The Christian Coalition and good will toward man >>FREEDOM WRITER PRESS RELEASE >>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 28, 1997 >>CONTACT: Skipp Porteous (413) 528-3800 >>Robertson advocates stoning for UFO enthusiasts >>Great Barrington, MA -- In a recent pronouncement, television evangelist >>and head of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, advocated death by >>stoning for UFO enthusiasts. Can there be any doubt as to why "they" wouldn't dare land on the White House Lawn? It was bad enough with the military involved, but now they have to worry about Christian Coalition fanatics who believe that all "aliens" must be demons and should be destroyed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:08:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:55:05 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward >>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:46:35 -0700 >>From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >>To: Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >>FREEDOM WRITER PRESS RELEASE >>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 28, 1997 >>CONTACT: Skipp Porteous (413) 528-3800 >>Robertson advocates stoning for UFO enthusiasts >>Great Barrington, MA -- In a recent pronouncement, television evangelist >>and head of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, advocated death by >>stoning for UFO enthusiasts. Can there be any doubt as to why "they" wouldn't dare land on the White House Lawn? It was bad enough with the military involved, but now they have to worry about Christian Coalition fanatics who believe that all "aliens" must be demons and should be destroyed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:17:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:56:43 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 > From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 15:26:18 cst > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August > 5 > >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:26:12 -0500 > >From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August > 5 > >> I have no financial interest in the AA affair one way or another. > >> The AA video proponents most definitely have a financial stake in > >> preserving the belief among as large a market as possible that > >> the AA video is real. That's marketing. > >> If the AA video were revealed as a hoax I suspect that Santilli's > >> sales would fall dramatically. Under these conditions, who would > >> you normally assume to be more objective -- the salesmen or the > >> skeptic? > >Oh Vince, I am sooo grateful (hug, squeeze, kiss, kiss) that you Snippety, snip, snip... > are equivalent, and that it's somehow egocentric and/or impolite to > point-out the difference. > I couldn't disagree more. The side-show aspects of ufology must not > be > allowed to obscure and obstruct the serious inquiry into this > potentially important phenomenon. > Regards, > Vince Oh, Vince... Many thanks for this opportunity to demonstrate my personal position. In this posting from you, as in others you have written, I see nothing of value that will further mine nor anyone else's understanding of UFO's. The points you raise seem only red herrings and not constructive criticism. If not for this opportunity to show a more time saving way to move past this flak, I would not have consumed a second in responding to you... Others, of course, may feel different and value some parry and thrust with you. I don't... Thanks... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 {79} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:39:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:01:05 -0400 Subject: {79} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' August 19th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 Issue 79 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {79} part 1 or part 2 In this issue: Index ----- Editorial --------- A question Real Audio - Fox TV United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1] John Velez - Questions & Answers interview [UK 2] I met an alien says top RAF officer [UK 3] Scottish Air Traffic Control track UFO [UK 4] Crop circle messages, A UFO kidnap and a Mum made pregnant! by grey strangers... Close Encounters are getting ever close... World News ---------- [W 1] Study: UFO sightings were U.S. spy planes [W 2] C.I.A. Admits Government Lied About U.F.O. Sightings [W 3] DoD News Briefing - partly on above [W 4] Chile announces UFOs are for real [W 5] Fossil footprints open way to row on 'genetic Eve' [W 6] As men in black opens, a scientist tells us what aliens will really look like A FEARFUL SYMMETRY by D. Lynne Bishop ------------------------------------- Part 2 Editorial --------- A question: ---------- Question: Would it be possible using todays technology to land a robotic vehicle on a passing comet? To record information as the comet travels it's orbit into deep space. To be collected the next time it passes Earth, whenever that might be. Send you answers, thoughts and ideas to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk with: COMET THERORIES as the subject heading. Real Audio ---------- UFOs: THE BEST EVIDENCE EVER CAUGHT ON TAPE Jonathan Frakes Narrates 'UFOs: The Best Evidence Ever Caught on Tape' Monday, July 28 on FOX From the producers of "Alien Autopsy: Fact or Fiction", this all new special chronicles shows how the modern UFO era has been intricately linked to the growing use of home film and video cameras, which may present the best chance of proving the existence of UFOs. The show also profiles witnesses, imaging experts and researchers whose lives have been forever changed by their involvement with the amazing UFO video evidence. Shedding light on this startling phenomena, FOX presents what may be the most compelling video and film footage of flying saucers in UFOs: THE BEST EVIDENCE EVER CAUGHT ON TAPE Monday, July 28 (8:00-9:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (SP-9804) (TV-PG) To download the Real Audio file of this documentary point your web browser at: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/sounds/fox-ufo.ra Special thanks to Netware for creating this real audio United Kingdom News ------------------- [UK 1]****** On Saturday 2nd August 1997, the United Kingdom UFO Network were very proud to receive as a guest on their IRC #UFO channel John Velez. John very kindly gave up a few hours of his time to answer questions from visitors to the channel. Below is a cleaned up log of the questions that John was asked along with his answers. The name inbetween the stars eg.*Nesssus* is the nickname of the IRC user asking the question and where you see <Velez> is of course the start of John's reply. CREDITS: We would like to thank Nesssus for arranging this meeting with John Velez. We would like to thank John Velez for attending this meeting and answering the questions put to him. We would like to thank Nesssus and Gandalf1 for moderating this meeting. We would like to thank all the people involved in asking questions. We would like to thank everyone who attended this meeting. We would like to apologise to Nesssus and Gandalf1 for not moderating the meeting due to connection problems and leaving them in the lurch at the critical time. WELL DONE GUYS.......Crow & Raine *Nesssus* Firstly could we welcome you John and say how much we all appreciate you attending, we know you have a busy schedule. The meet is going to be moderated, so you don't get overwhelmed with everyone talking in the channel at once. If you could please give everyone a short introduction and brief insight of your experiences, we will then invite the channel members to ask you any questions they may have. If you could could type '??' after you have finished answering. <Velez> Hello all. Very briefly then, my background is in human services and graphic art. The last five years have been spent working with Budd and trying to raise public consciousness about UFO's and althe alien presence on our world.?? <Velez> You've got me for two hours, lets start taking questions.?? *SeekeR* did ya see any aliens close up in the ufo, Velez? <Velez> Yes, I have several conscious memories (not derived thru hypnosis) involving being on board a UFO. Interaction was with Grey beings. I also have memories of some beings that appear to be larger versions of the little grey ones and much more "insect like" in appearance.?? *Jorgen_* question: have the abductions been going on since you were a child, and are there others in your family who have similar experiences? <Velez> Jorgen, yes, a lifetime of unexplained experiences and phenomena. yes this is a multi-generational business (abductions) my whole family has been affected.?? *skygypsy* QUESTION: Do the aliens exhibit any emotion at all? <Velez> Yes! Affection of all things, but only on one occasion that I can recall.?? *pathFINDR* to velez--> at what age did you realise that something was occuring and when did you attribute it to alien abduction? <Velez> My earliest recollection is at about age 4 or 5. I didn't realize what was going on until 5 tears ago,...I was 43 years old at the time.?? *pathFINDR* Do you have any children, do they have any strange dreams, how old are they? <Velez> two. My daughter is 25 and my son is 22. I'm also a grandad! And yes, both children have many abduction related memories and marks on their bodies. (ie:odd scoop marks and scars) *Hideout* can you ask, how many types of aliens he has witnessed <Velez> Three different types, none of them 'human looking' such as 'Nordics'.?? *TopGun* please ask him: I read your NOVA interview. You said that you have been implanted. Where is the implant in your body and did you remove it that it could be examined? <Velez> The "implant" is buried deep in the center of my head and is most likely inoperable. <Velez> I offered NOVA the opportunity to perform CAT scans or x-rays, but they refused.?? *Crew^* Do you recall seeing any furniture in the craft? <Velez> A chair that appears to be a part of the walls and floor, (no seams) and the pillar-like table that so many report along with pillar like stools which also appear to be a single unit with the rest of the room.?? *Law* velez: and what your gov says about it? <Velez> the "government denies all knowledge as you well know.?? *Hideout* Does he feel there is any type of comunication or relationship between the 3 types of alien he has witnessed. <Velez> yes, always telepathic and occasionally 'empathic'?? *Ralf* John, tell us about the Phoenix Sightings (in short plz) <Velez> Yes, glad to. On March 13th of this year a single large (or several smaller objects flying in formation were reported and videotaped over downtown Phoenix, Az. <Velez> the US air national guard claims that the sighting was attributable to 'flares' that were dropped over the Goldwater test range. <Velez> We know that it's blatant BS because we have video taken from several different vantage points. The objects were (over) Phoenix, and not 60 miles away as the Airforce claims.?? *Avenger* how did you find out that you had been abductd? <Velez> I read Budds, "Missing time" it changed my life completely.?? *grump* For John: "Hi from a friend of Errol and Sue and Tom and Lise .. can you tell us how many times you have seen a UFO? Not abducted, just sightings?" <Velez> Keerist, gotta be over a dozen times by now. <Velez> I've been having more sightings in the last two years than ever before in my life.?? *Jez_UFO* Scars, scoops and now an 'inoperable' implant. Why hav'nt you paid for an X-ray/CAT scan? <Velez> Jez_UFO, CAT scans cost over $1200 american for a 'head shot! I'm a self employed working stiff, are you gonna pay for em? <G>?? *ctropics* Question: Could you elaborate on the alien agenda/purpose and further, is there indication that their existence will be made known to the public in near future? <Velez> 1. Purpose. As I said in an earlier response, no one knows their 'ultimate' purposes. I don't indulge in idle speculation. I'll await scientific enquiry before formulating an oppinion about that. <Velez> 2.Due to the increase in reported sightings worldwide and the dramatic increase in abduction reports I'd say yes.?? *UfatO* Could you please ask John. If the same craft was always used in his abductions, or did they differ in any way each time? <Velez> There have been different vehicles involved. <Velez> A small acorn shaped craft that only holds three, and larger varying types. ie; classic disc shaped objects and one time a huge glowing pyramidal shaped affair.?? *forgiette* velez..hello..(1). do you think the beings (aliens), are living among us at the present time? (2)..do you think we are desendents of the beings? (3). can u tell when the beings are here although you can't see them? <Velez> 1. Don't know. I suppose it's possible given the 'human' appearance of certain alien species that some have reported. <Velez> 2. Again, who knows? Questions that invite speculation are going to get a similar response.?? <Velez> 3. I can only remember bits and pieces of these experiences on a conscious level. I don't particularly trust what I've gotten thru hypnosis. I don't remember if they came everytime I got the heebie jeebies (feeling like they are there)?? *Nesssus* This question is from monkman who couldnt make it tonite: Have you heard of cerebrospinal fluid leaking from brain through nose (like a small clear nosebleed)?" <Velez> No, I haven't. Although if someone is leaking fluid from the brain pan I would imagine that death would be emminent. It's more likely an effusion from the fluids in the sinus cavities. At least that makes more sense to me.?? *forgiette* velez ..do you think abductees are being cloned? <Velez> Possible but no one knows any of that for sure.?? *Gandalf1* question by me... have you or still being visitited by Men In Black?, if so in what way do they appear to you?, also could you just briefly describe the craft(s) you were taken on board during your abductions <Velez> I have never seen MIB's and I already dicribed several craft in an earlier response. Check transcript later for answer to your question. ?? *raine* Have you got any idea why they have chosen to abduct you or do you think it is purely random? <Velez> I think it has to do with my blood line. they appear to be following certain family trees.?? *UfatO* some people claim that they have been taken to a much larger craft by the initial smaller craft, have you any recollection of this happening to you John? <Velez> Yes, on two occasions.?? *pathFINDR* Do you ever remember seeing any egyptian glyphs during abduction, have your children undergone regression? <Velez> Yes to both. It wasn't egyptian looking. When I first saw it it looked like nothing I've ever seen before. A series of straight and sometimes curved lines, interspresed with dots.?? *forgiette* velez..what is your imput on alien/gov't abductions? <Velez> Dr Greer from CSETI claims that the govenment is reponsible for up to 98 percent of the reported abductions! I think it's ludicrous to believe that the government is abducting citizens on the scale that the reports are coming in at. <Velez> Although it is possible that certain intelligence agencies are keeping tabs on some of the more 'public' abduction advocates.?? *ctropics* are out-of-body experiences, assuming they are real, closely related to abduction experiences? <Velez> No, not at all. In an OOBE you look back and see your body in the bed, in abductions the person is missing. What we are having is, Out Of House Experiences! <G>?? *forgiette* velez do u have any info about the 13 or more logzeners shapes in earth oceans, in regards of possible being/ufo bases <Velez> Sorry no.?? *magus* one of the things that has been the topic in the Undernet ufo channel lately has been that of "acceptable proof". We have seen photos, experiences personal memories, often have scars symbols to show for our involvment. BUT ... is or should there be a DEFINITION of "acceptiable proof" or will that always remain a very personal, non-tangiable thing or should it try to be defined ? <Velez> I think that an academic/scientific inquiry will shed much light on the nature of these events. <Velez> The problem is that few have been made and few are in the works. Abduction as a subject of inquiry is a problem for mainsteam scientists intersted in protecting reputations and grant $.?? *pathFINDR* .A series of straight and sometimes curved lines, interspresed with dots.??<---sounds almost like Mayan Indices?? <Velez> you got me, what the hell are "Mayan Indices?" <G>?? *pathFINDR* used to record their history *pathFINDR* info only Mayan indices destroyed in major part by spaniards durind christian crusade only 3 remain the Dresden Index being the most famous. *UfatO* John, did you at any time see other abductees while aboard the craft? <Velez> No. But many others do report that.?? *Gandalf1* q? from me... I have seen you on a documantary being regressed by Budd, you said during that session that you saw your son... has he undergone regression to that event and what was the outcome.. ie was he there or not? <Velez> Yes, he underwent regression at his own request. Yes, (unfortunately) he was there.?? *magus* and on a related note ... should we ever even consider trying to proove ourselves, qualify ourselves, to non-understanding/non-receptive individuals (should've been combined with previous q?) <Velez> No. Itell the truth in as unembellished a way as I can. It is a matter of conscience with me that I report to my fellow creatures what is happening to me and my loved ones. What people do with that information afterwards is up to them. I have done what I ?? *forgiette* velez..after your abduction, for several days, do u feel out of reality in a sense that u know it has happened, but can't focuss due to the emotional haunting <Velez> Yes. It sticks in your head and replays itself over and over demanding attention.?? *Raine* John, is there any one particular place you seem to be or a certain time of day when you have an abduction experience? <Velez> No. Abductions can happen at just about anytime. The frequency is once or twice every couple of three years or so. <Velez> They have happened at home and outside as well.?? *rob* for john: How do you know you have an implant in your head if you haven't had a CAT scan? Do you have any evuidence or proof of it's existence? <Velez> No. I remembered getting it. It was the only thing that I recalled from that event. But I remembered it clearly. I even heard the 'dull cruch' when he pushed the probe up my nose and into my head.?? *forgiette* velez...this could sound far fetch, but, is it possible that all humans have wittnessed abductions? <Velez> I have no way to answer that question I'm sorry. *Avenger* "who did the Aliens treated you? do you see your abduction as a tragic event? <Velez> No not at all. I see it as something that they feel they have to do. They are 'doing a job' I don't think there is any 'intentional' harm or torture in it. <Velez> It is our own xenophobia that causes us to be traumatized.?? *UfatO* Have you ever been given a look into the future by the aliens eg, warnings regarding the Earths future? <Velez> I have been shown appocalyptic visions. Whether they are 'future events' or whether they are just testing me in some way I cannot say.?? *forgiette* velez..nobody has ever seen God, what is your opinion on the being/alien is perhaps God. <Velez> God (in my belief system) is embodied in ALL THAT IS. And not in any one species or thing. ALL THAT IS is GOD. My views are very pantheistic that way.?? *ctropics* thank you for your candid responses ..... Question: Have the aliens projected future events to you personally, i.e.... vast destruction and threat to the world and is this a common phenomena with other abductees? and if so what nature did it take? <Velez> Again, I want to preface my response by saying that no one knows for sure that we are being shown, "future events" <Velez> What I was party to was rescue missions involveing teams of humans and aliens piloting huge craft and persaving people from the mass destruction. Make of that what you will.?? *Raine* I have read that you were shown 7 hybrids and told that they were your offspring, have you ever been shown them again at a more advanced stage? <Velez> No, although I feel a deep internal connection to them. They are partly mine. It's a sin to seperate offspring from biological parent, under ANY circumstances.?? *magus* considering ONLY abduction/contact experiences YOU have been involved with ... regardless of the persons perceptions .. have you viewed any of the experiences as INTENTIONALLY malicious ?? <Velez> *Magus* No, none that I can recall. The 'terror' was coming from me not them.?? *ChromeB* velez: do you think we were genetically engineered by aliens and "seeded" on this planet? Do u think they are muddling with our genes in abduction scenarios? <Velez> In answer to the LAST question. yes and no. Again you ask me to 'speculate' and I dislike doing so.?? *Lloydy* Why do you think your abductees were male in gender? <Velez> I have never said anything of the kind. *Nesssus* Thank you very much for taking the time out to visit us John it has been a good meeting. *Gandalf1* I would like to thank Mr John Velez for taking the time to answer this MANY questions... you did a GREAT job keeping up with all... thanks a lot *Raine* John please feel free to come again, maybe under less stressful conditions, just as a regular user :) <Velez> As for 'abductees' they are of all races, sexes, professions, sexual preference, you name it. The aliens aren't 'bigots' that's for sure! thank you all and good night. Web sites: John Velez: http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html Nesssus: http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk [UK 2]****** Source: The Advertiser, Adelaide, South Australia Date: Monday 11th August 1997 I met an alien says top RAF officer By Fiona Barton in London Military giants don't come much bigger than Air Marshall Sir Peter Horsley. A war hero who flew Mosquitoes against the Germans, he has held one of the highest ranks in the RAF and been an adviser to the Queen and Prince Philip. He has also, he claims, met a visitor from another galaxy. Sir Peter has kept his close encounter with the mysterious man he calls Mr Janus in a London flat a secret for 43 years. But now, at the age of 76, he is ready to go public. With a steely gaze, he says; "We talked for hours about travelling in space and time... He didn't say he was a visitor from another planet but I had that impression. I believe he was here to observe us." "I never saw him again. I have no qualms about the reaction to my experience with Mr Janus. I don't care what people think. It is what happened." His extraordinary testimony in his autobiography, Sounds From Another Room, to be published in October by Leo Cooper, and his uncompromising belief in Unidentified Flying Objects will no doubt ruffle the men at the Ministry. For, incredible as it seems, it is the evidence of a man who once ran the country's defence at RAF Strike Command, and was a Buckingham Palace aide for six years. At his cottage in Hampshire he discusses the presence of alien spacecraft with unswerving nonchalance. "I would say they come from another planet somewhere in the universe but not in our galaxy. They are benign, not aggressive and, like us, are explorers," he says. His interest in UFOs began, he says, in 1952 while he was an equerry to the Duke of Edinburgh and was started by news- paper reports at the time. Sir Peter says he talked to Prince Philip of his interest in UFOs. "He was quite interested. His mind always open." Sir Peter started by interviewing people who had claimed to have seen UFOs and invited an airline captain to visit him at Buckingham Palace. His own encounter came in 1954. He says he was introduced to a General Martin who arranged for him to visit the Chelsea home of a Mrs Markham. "Janus was there, sitting by the fire in a deep chair. He asked, 'What is your interest in flying saucers?'" And then he gave an account of space travel at the speed of light, with spare body parts in the luggage. Sir Peter's interest in the paranormal stayed with him during his rise through the ranks to the crucial post of chief of the RAF's Strike Command in 1973. But at the Ministry of Defence in Whitehall, jaws are dropping. As one senior officer put it: "Oh God, how unfortunate that the public will learn that the man who had his finger on the button at Strike Command as seeing little green men." [UK 3]****** From: duncan@life.com Date: 4th August 1997 Scottish Air Traffic Control track UFO Scotland in the United Kingdom is still experiencing UFO activity over it's airspace. Yet another UFO incident took place on Wednesday 16th April 1997, involving the Royal Mail flight from Inverness to Edinburgh (ZAP6 ALPHA) northwest of Perth. Something had apparently attracted the attention of the pilot between 8.45 and 9.00pm, leading to discussions between the aeroplane and Scottish ATC. At 9.00pm, the pilot switched frequencies and was transferred to Edinburgh ATC (EDN ATC). EDN ATC: "...or somebody is flying out there at the moment...I'm quite interested in tracing it because someone reported it about three months ago and it was up at about eight to nine thousand feet." ZAP6A: "That's exactly it... It was at eight thousand feet... It' spot level with us... Seven miles straight infront of us... Then lost sight of it... Scottish told us it was behind us at about four miles." EDN ATC: "Okay... That's understood... ZAP6A... A couple of questions on that light that you saw... were they navigation lights or could you see cabin lights... and also... was it fast moving?" ZAP6A: "Ahhh... sounds funny I know... but it was just... white lights and it was directly in front of us." EDN ATC: "Roger 6A... and you replies check with what I put in a report about three months ago... It was almost like cabin lights at eight thousand feet and they weren't able to trace anything unfortunately." ZAP6A: "Yes, sounds like the same as we had... it was definitely above the cloud by about two thousand feet and like I say... kept an eye on it and next minute Scottish told us it was behind us." EDN ATC: "Roger." One thing is absolutely certain about this sighting. The UFO was tracked on radar by the staff at the Scottish Air Traffic Control. "...Scottish told us it was behind us... six o'clock at about four miles." uk.ufo.nw asks: Do any of our Scottish readers have further information on this. Details to our usual address please. [UK 4]****** Source: The People newspaper Date: Sunday 10th August 1997 Crop circle messages, A UFO kidnap and a Mum made pregnant! by grey strangers... Close Encounters are getting ever close... ET gives us a ring! By Robert Kellaway Crop circles could be messages left by aliens in a bid to contact humans, according to new research. Experts believe the massive patterns are so complex they could not have been made by people on the ground. Some flatterned crop stalks are completely undamaged with no sign of the use of tools or ropes. Visitors have reported being overcome by energy surges and experiencing mysterious healing powers within the circles. Researcher Lucy Pringle has spent 10 years investigating reports sent in by people who have experienced strange effects in and around them. She says: "A few crop circles are definitely man made - hoaxes or pranks. But these are relatively easy to detect. Others are much more mysterious. I believe the stalks are caused to soften at the base and fall due to electro-magnetic and low frequency radiation. "I cannot explain where this energy comes from but I do believe we are not alone in this universe. I believe they could be an attempt at communication by intelligences not from this planet." Lucy, 52, of Petersfield, Hants, first experienced the healing powers of crop circles in 1990. A shoulder injury meant every arm movement left her racked with pain. She said: "There is no way I could even lift my arm to brush my teeth. "I came across a rather plain circle near Morestead in Hampshire. I felt a great energy in the circle. "When I left my injury was completely healed. "A freind with me at the time was suffering a cronic illness. I left her for a few minutes and on my return she was lying flat on her back. "She said she'd not been able to do that without discomfort for 15 years." One of the most striking images is the Torus Knot, the most complex crop circle yet seen. The image appeared in a barley field outside the village of Alton Barnes, Wiltshire. Lucy said: "To anyone interested in geometry this figure is one of the most beautiful there is. "You can see it would be impossible to execute without the aid of an aerial view and extensive ground marking. "This is a truly mysterious site." Another beautiful image is the Flower of Life - a central ring surrounded by six crescent shapes spiralling off at 60-degree intervals. But the most striking site for Lucy is a five-pointed star cut into a wheat field near Avebury, Wilts. Lucy says: "When I visited this formation I immediately felt uncomfortable and within a few minutes terribly ill. "I had to leave as quick as possible." Her book The Sky Is Not The Limit is to be published next year. Riddle of book and The Men In Black A leading alien abduction expert claims time travel has been discovered - and that humans from the future are teaching children in secret schools throughout the world. Author Whitley Strieber says that he was such a pupil for three years from the age of nine. And when the Texan, now 52, started writing a book about it, he believes his office may have been firebombed by sinister Men In Black - similar to those in the hit film - to shut him up. The teachers - known as The Sisters of Mercy because they looked like nuns - gave him nine lessons at a secluded place in Texas called Olmos Basin. Whitley adds: "These seminars seemed to be about mankinds future, how we need to evolve before our population spirals totally out of control." Whitley's book is already out in America and he has received letters from people who said they were also pupils. He says: "The most intriguing letter cam from a 12 year old boy who is also being taught by the Sisters, so the schools do seem to still be out there now." The schools are held in secret because of the problems related to time travel - notably what is known as the Grandfather Paradox, where someone might meet their own grandfather and do or say somthing to alter his life - and their own future. Whitley also wrote the alien abduction book Communion, which was turned into a movie. Adapted from The Secret School by Whitley Strieber (Simon & Schuster, 15 pounds 99 pence). Butchers from another world Aliens are being blamed for the slaughter of hundreds of animals in the beautiful countryside where the TV hit Heartbeat is filmed. Farmers in North Yorkshire are gripped with fear after a series of bizarre deaths on open moorland. In the latest, nine sheep were found with their stomachs ripped out in the village of Snainton. And deer were found with holes in their head and drained of blood in the Dalby Forest area. Over a three year period, similar strange deaths have been reported all over the North York Moors. Former police sergeant Tony Dodd, now a UFO expert, says all the evidence points to aliens. "There have even been reports of the dead animals falling from the sky, often coinciding with UFO sightings," he says. "Without doubt, there is something very sinister going on." In America, UFO experts believe aliens caused the death of up to 10,000 cattle, found with heads and necks as skeletons but the rest of their corpses intact. Similar strange cases are still unexplained in the Scottish Highlands and, in October 1995, along the Ulster border. Spacship abducted one man and his dog By Joe Brady Broadcaster Lawrence John has told for the first time how he and his faithful pet dog Lobo were abducted by aliens. They were beamed onto a spacship during an astonishing close encounter. Lawrence, 46, who runs his own radio station and two record shops, said yesterday: "People might say I'm barking mad but we are not alone..." Lawrence and his three year old bichon frise Lobo, were exploring the eerie St Patrick's Chair and Well rock formation on the northern side of the Co Moneghan border when their out of this world encounter happened. "We were suddenly enveloped in a blinding white light," said Lawrence. "I found myself outside what appeared to be some sort of spacecraft and several aliens appeared in front of me. "They were greyish, dullish and human in form. They appeared to be hovering. They were about 5ft tall and seemed to be wearing something resembling a kaftan. "I asked if I was safe and one simulated my voice to reply that I was and I could shortly go back to where I came from. "The craft we were in was enormous. While on board I saw probably four or five aliens. But they kept coming and going and all looked so alike, so it could have been 50." Suddenly they were back at St Patrick's Chair and Well. He checked his car clock and estimated he had been on board for around an hour and a half. Lawrence, of Belfast, said: "Lobo now often just sits at the window and just stares at the sky. He has had two other meetings with aliens at the same spot since that first encounter last September but apart from brief flashbacks he can remember little. He said: "I've witnessed something incredible. Yet for some reason they do not want me to remember clearly." UFO expert Myles Johnston believes the spot is part of an energy line which the aliens us as a refueling station. I had an alien's baby Mum of two Debbie Jordan had an out of this world experience - she was made pregnant by aliens! Then the sinister grey figures invaded her body again - to whisk away the child before it was born. Since those first bizarre experiences they have repeatedly taken control of the 37 year old farm girl's thoughts, transforming her from average intelligence into a super boffin with an IQ of 150. This week Debbie travels from her remote US farmhouse in Indiana to pay her first visit to Britain. She will tell her remarkable story - authenticated by doctors and scientists - at next weekend's British UFO Conference in Sheffield. Debbie was 18 when she was abducted one night in November while in her car with two schoolfriends. Afterwards she found herself back in her bed at 5am. "A few months later I found I was pregnant. The doctor timed the date of conception back to that night. "It was weird - then things gott stranger still. Later when I went for a check-up, I discovered that I was no longer pregnant. I'd not miscarried. "At first shrinks thought I had some buried trauma and treated me for stress disorders. "Others thought I was nuts. I had lie detector tests, barin scans and every pyschological test going. They all showed I was of sound mind." World News ---------- [W 1]****** Source: CNN Date: 3rd August 1997 Study: UFO sightings were U.S. spy planes WASHINGTON (AP) -- With growing hysteria over alleged UFO sightings in the 1950s, the Air Force repeatedly concocted false cover stories to hide the fact that their super-secret spy planes had been spotted, an intelligence study says. Historian Gerald K. Haines writes that the Air Force, responding to alleged UFO sightings during the Cold War years, frequently provided explanations that were untrue to deflect attention away from the spy planes. "Over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the 1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights (namely the U-2) over the United States," Haines wrote in the spring issue of Studies of Intelligence, an unclassified CIA journal. The article was found Saturday on the Internet. Concern about the public finding out about the secret spy planes "led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project," Haines wrote. "While perhaps justified, this deception added fuel to the later conspiracy theories and the cover-up controversy" regarding the existence of UFOs, he added. Haines, a historian at the National Reconnaissance Office, based his article on a review of CIA documents from the late 1940s to 1990. He described how the Air Force sought to deflect attention from the development of its high-altitude experimental aircraft, the U-2 and the SR-71. The early U-2s were silver and reflected the sun's rays, especially at sunrise and sunset, and often appeared as fiery objects to people below, Haines said. The U-2s were later painted black. Air Force investigators "aware of the secret U-2 flights tried to explain away such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena such as ice crystals and temperature inversions," Haines wrote. By 1956, the Air Force internally had clear explanations for 96 percent of all UFO sightings, Haines wrote, referring to the experimental aircraft. "They were careful, however, not to reveal the true cause of the sighting to the public." He also said the CIA, during the height of the Cold War, hid its involvement in studies into UFO sightings because the agency was concerned if word came out it would lead to a national hysteria that could be exploited by the Soviet Union. The director of space policy at the Washington-based Federation of American Scientists, John E. Pike, said the study raises questions about other possible government cover-ups involving unidentified flying objects. "The flying-saucer community is definitely onto something" in accusing the military of hiding something, Pike told The New York Times, which reported on the study in Sunday's edition. Haines' study, "CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90," is available on the Internet at http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html. -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Humans, Hominids and Humanoids From: Lloyd Jacobs <lkj@front.net> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:35:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:58:01 -0400 Subject: Humans, Hominids and Humanoids Intelligent Extraterrestrials Prefer a Humanoid Shape by Lloyd Jacobs Intelligence had as a prerequisite a rare physiology and in turn that physiology depended on intelligence to make good use of it to survive. Once the pattern was established, it was a more and more desirable package. One must be careful to avoid using the old human/animal bifurcation and not ignore the baby-step but key development of primate evolution. As with any new niche or mode of survival the trick is to get it started, and evidently the seed of intelligence was within the large primate clade. Despite fierce competition that eventually wiped out most of our nearest cousins (H. habilis, H. ergaster, A. robustus co-existed and H. sapiens sapiens shared the planet with H. neanderthalis) monkeys and the great apes survived and most of the order have cleverness as their main characteristic. So while human physiology may not be obviously desirable from a purely physical performance point of view, it was an inevitability given the wide variety of pre-existing cleverness-dependent monkeys and apes. The question is not whether humans would evolve but whether monkeys would likely arise in the first place. And why wouldn't they? "Anthropocentric/morphic" Intelligent Animal Prerequisite Wish List 1. Pre-existing facility/brain hardware for operating in a "complex 3 dimensional" environment (trees) 2. Tool-handling appendages 3. Complex social instincts (non-solitary etc.) 4. Body adaptable to evolutionary encephalization (must not fatally impair locomotion) 5. Air-breathing 6. Sophisticated, highly protective reproductive system Number 1 (3 dimensional thinking) prerequisite includes birds, monkeys, apes, some rodents (squirrels), excludes to a degree most ground-based animals. An important factor in tool making is the skill to manipulate objects in three dimensions. Many birds build intricate nests and their prerequisite skill is maneuvering in a three dimensional environment. But the masters of the trees are monkeys. Overlooked by most people is that the living tree itself is a tool as versatile as a swiss army knife. Monkeys use the tree simultaneously as a home, fortress, transportation, a lookout-post and a food depot. The safety and complexity of the trees also encouraged foward-facing eyes for full binocular vision. It may be that the added demanding complexity of three dimensional skill positively affects intelligence in a more general way as well. 2 (tool handling body) excludes cetaceans and birds Dolphins and birds have a large part of their anatomy tied up in swimming and flight respectively. Dolphins have their beaks, in birds' case a beak and 2 feet but apes have a mouth, plus two hands and two feet while some monkeys add a prehensile tail! Not counting fingers and toes (or on them), apes and we have five useful grasping devices! Non-flying/tree adaptations led directly to this terrific advantage. Although our feet have re-adapted to walking, we still see people using their feet in manual ways especially and significantly in tribal cultures. Interesting note: Intelligent elephants (and stupid ones too) have two grasping appendages, mouth and trunk. 3 (social) excludes solitary species Intelligence is greatly enhanced when used cooperatively. 4 (body adaptable) excludes birds While some birds are clever, evolving a large brain is problematic with such a flight-specialized anatomy. Importantly, it is my strong opinion that our large brain is (to a large extent) the RESULT of and NOT THE CAUSE of our intelligence. The theory is that as we became more reliant on our wits, we came to rely on having an extra supply of brain cells to prolong its useful life. Increased size was the only answer nature had to the problem of keeping the organ functioning at optimum throughout a long life-span. In case of injury, it does no good to repair the brain with new tissue (learned behavior is still lost) and the nominal biological replacement mechanism itself would cause interference with normal brain function. That is why neurons, unlike other organ cells, do not reproduce in adulthood, otherwise we'd have a brain and mind identical to a newborn baby's. Redundancy is the reason why our brains are so big. It's still vitally important to have a large brain so that it may function well despite minor injury and the wear and tear of life but it was two-fold importance to our ancestors who depended on passing culture and technology onto succeeding generations through their long-lived elders. No, I'm not one of those who believe we only use ten percent of brain mass. We use closer to one hundred percent, but in a largely redundant manner. We use more neurons than necessary for a given function so that these "apprentice" cells may be ready to take over that function when cell death by attrition or minor injury occurs. The digression is necessary because I think it is important to know the history of the large brain in order to understand it's relationship to intelligent species. By many people's thinking, all evolution must do is have some misshapen creature evolve a big batch of new brain cells and presto -- a six-legged pop-eyed intelligent alien like on the Simpsons cartoon. Qualitative brain improvement rather than hat size increase was the central phenomenon in human evolution. (see references below) 5 Air-breathing eliminates fish, octopus etc. It's quite telling that for all the superb adaptations whales and dolphins made for aquatic life, they retained mammalian lungs for the sake of their far superior land-dweller metabolisms. It should be noted that most if not all large and complex air-breathing animals have a persistent four-limbed phylogeny. The only argument left is whether it's reasonable to expect a large animal to evolve from a prototype creature with six or more legs and manage to retain them. Six legs are okay for tiny insects, who tend to use their extra two adhesive limbs for better grip in the relatively tortuous terrain and much stronger wind (due to greater cross-sectional area drag/mass ratio for small creatures) that they experience in their micro-world. 6 Sophisticated Reproduction Birds fail once again because of highly specialized bodies and egg- laying which don't allow for more complex and prolonged development of young. The egg is like a space capsule with limited biological battery power while the womb is like a luxury apartment with all utilities paid indefinitely for developing young. Reptiles also failed because of egg-laying, and also, perhaps, a lack of thermoregulation (the latest experimental evidence points to cold- blooded dinosaurs but the debate still rages.) Mammals were necessary. Tree-dwelling mammals are the most intelligent. Not only can a bright alien on the next inhabited planet have our general body plan, he quite likely will function as a mammal despite a different genetic mechanism. Final, Extra Thoughts Other hominids did not evolve to the present as we did because they were out-competed by humans and their direct ancestors. There might have been other species of bright apes as guests for supper had we not taken them out either through war directly or niche competition. When postulating any kind of creature, one must not only describe a coherent morphology, but also be able to describe the process by which that form took shape via evolutionary theory. In other words, it's one thing to create a "designer" intelligent creature and quite another to explain how such a creature would arise naturally. People often imagine an intelligent, tentacled creature, not cognizant that such boneless creatures most likely evolve in a liquid environment and thus are likely not air-breathing and hyper- metabolizing as we are. A more plausible creature might at least have something equivalent to a head and face, with many senses prudently located close to the brain for faster and safer processing. Evolution of general forms is another consideration. We not only arbitrarily perceive a progression from species to species within the mammalian class (i.e. from monkey to human) but general improvements (not having to do with intelligence in particular) from phylum to phylum and from class to class within our phylum chordata. >From single cell to multi-cell to bacteria, to insects, to fish etc., several such general phylum and class supersessions (although older ones were able to hang on to many niches while later phyla may have merely exploited new ones) were evidently necessary in our own progress toward intelligence. So while evolution does not steer toward intelligence in particular, we have witnessed a general progression toward greater efficiency and sophistication of the visibly dominant class or phylum of each era. Eventually this inexorable pure efficiency drive gave human-order intelligence the phylogenic opportunity to evolve through order primate. I admit there must be other configurations for an intelligent tool- using creature, but I haven't seen any serious ones postulated yet. If there are say 3 or 4 of such configurations in the galaxy, suffice to say that the ape/human model is one of them and perhaps the most common. Both literally and metaphorically speaking, there are only so many ways to build a table or chair and most utile ones have 4 limbs. In our experience, frugal evolution in general has not been inclined toward the huge investment in human-level intelligence, but that was only the case until a monkey-like creature happened to appear which represented the necessary phylogenetic capital. And once that monkey became able and smart enough to provide a virtual extension of the womb, with arms holding infant snugly to warm breast, its descendants progressed to our current level of intelligence, discernibly and apace. --- Check out these sites for related info on neuronal redundancy: Hofman, M A Energy metabolism, brain size and longevity in mammals (abstract) http://alpha.genebee.msu.su/books/0345339185/84120011.html Dorrell, Philip The Meaning of a Neuron (abstract) http://www.xmission.com/~gastown/dorrell/neuron.html Pietsch, Paul BRAIN SHRINKS, YET THINKS http://www.indiana.edu/~pietsch/lorber.html Lewin, Roger Is the Brain Really Necessary? http://web.syr.edu/~sndrake/necbrain.htm --- Lloyd Jacobs "The sea was angry that day my lkj@front.net friends, like an old man trying ab922@torfree.net to send back soup in a deli."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Maury Island From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 18:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:08:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Maury Island Rebecca wrote: > Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Maury Island > Date: 97-08-19 06:29:30 EDT > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:50:16 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Maury Island > Hi, > I was watching some old conference videotapes this weekend (OK, I really > am a > BORING person) and came across one from Gulf Breeze 1993. It was in slide > presentation of Bob Dean's that he shows two slides which he claims are > photos from the Maury Island incident. > Dean said these were photos which "aren't supposed to exist." I admit, I > have > never seen them before and so far, I haven't found anyone else who has > seen > them either. > It's hard for me to describe them because the slides are somewhat ambiguous > and I'm watching a video (taped at SLP) of a slide presentation. > > Does anyone know of any photos of Maury Island? If so, where have you seen > them before? Have they been authenticated? Dean says of the second slide that > many feel that one is a hoax. The second slide seems to depict a craft and > debris in the sky. The other slide is very ambiguous. It is said to depict > debris. But I can't ascertain the background, whether it is the sky or water. > Any help on this would be appreciated. > Thanks, > Rebecca I will try to get some updated info from Bob Dean and pass it back to the list. Steve Bassett P.S. I watch back conference tapes, too, and, in general people think I'm not leading a particularly charismatic life. But inevitably they get around to asking the fatal question, "So, tell me, Steve, what kind of work to do you do?"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 {79} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:39:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:03:32 -0400 Subject: {79} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' August 19th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 2 Issue 79 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with subscribers in over 40 countries. This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {79} part 1 or part 2 [W 2]****** Source: The New York Times Date: August 1997 C.I.A. Admits Government Lied About U.F.O. Sightings By WILLIAM J. BROAD The article is about a document which is authored by Gerald K. Haines and appears in Studies of Intelligence, a secret CIA journal. Five years ago, the agency began releasing unclassified versions of the journal yearly. The UFO study forms part of the 1997 edition and has just been published at the "Office of the Director of Central Intelligence World Wide Web Site", which is divided in three sections. The one in question is the site of "The Center for the Study of Intelligence". In the darkest days of the Cold War, the military lied to the American public about the true nature of many unidentified flying objects in an effort to hide its growing fleets of spy planes, a CIA study says. The deceptions were made in the 1950s and '60s amid a wave of UFO sightings that alarmed the public and parts of official Washington. The CIA study says the Air Force knew that most reports by citizens and aviation experts were based on fleeting glimpses of U-2 and SR-71 spy planes, which fly extremely high. Those planes were developed in the 1950s and '60s to photograph enemy targets. From secret bases, mainly in California and Nevada, the aircraft repeatedly flew across the country and eventually overseas to bases in countries that included Britain, West Germany and Taiwan. While commercial airliners in the 1950s flew at altitudes of up to 30,000 feet, the U-2 soared to more than 60,000 feet and the SR-71 to more than 80,000 feet, or 15 miles, nearly the edge of space. The planes carried powerful cameras to spy on foreign military installations and sensitive electronic gear to capture radio and radar transmissions. The spy craft were developed by the intelligence agency and often flown by the Air Force. Rather than acknowledging the existence of the top-secret flights or saying nothing about them publicly, the Air Force decided to put out false cover stories, the CIA study says. For instance, unusual observations that were actually spy flights were attributed to atmospheric phenomena like ice crystals and temperature inversions. "Over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the 1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights" over the United States, the CIA study says. "This led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project." The study, "CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90," was written by Gerald K. Haines and appears in Studies of Intelligence, a secret CIA journal. Five years ago, the agency began releasing unclassified versions of the journal yearly. The 1997 edition, with the study on unidentified objects, is at http://www.odci gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ on the World Wide Web. Mr. Haines is a historian at the National Reconnaissance Office, the intelligence agency that builds and runs the nation's spy satellites. The admission of Federal deception on the issue appears to be a first, experts said in interviews. "It's very significant," said Richard Hall, chairman of the Fund for UFO Research, a group in Washington. "Certainly they've lied about not having any interest in the subject. But I don't know of any other deception like this." John E. Pike, head of space policy at the Federation of American Scientists, also based in Washington, said the admission raised questions about other federal cover-ups involving UFOs. "The flying-saucer community is definitely onto something," in charging that the military is hiding something, Mr. Pike said. There are two schools of thought on the nature of such a cover-up. One, from Mr. Pike and other aerospace experts, holds that many sightings over the decades involved secret federal projects featuring advanced aircraft and reconnaissance missions. The new admission strengthens that view. The other school holds that the government has come into possession of extraterrestrial craft and beings and is hiding them from the public, partly to avoid causing panic. That view was celebrated last month on the 50th anniversary of an incident in Roswell, N.M., in which conspiracy theorists say a saucer crashed to Earth and was seized by the government. The deceptions about the spy flights were issued in some of the tensest days of the Cold War. The Soviet Union exploded its first hydrogen bomb in 1955, the year that the U-2 flew for the first time. In 1960, a U-2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, leading to the cancellation of an East-West peace conference. In 1962, a U-2 spotted a buildup of Soviet nuclear arms in Cuba, precipitating the diplomatic crisis regarded by some experts as the closest the superpowers came to nuclear war. To make the spy planes harder to see and less likely to prompt UFO reports, they were eventually painted black. The CIA study said U-2's initially had silver bodies "and reflected the rays from the sun, especially at sunrise and sunset." The report added that "they often appeared as fiery objects to observers below." But the SR-71, which first flew in 1964, was apparently painted black from the start. Its nickname was the Blackbird. [W 3]****** Tuesday, August 5, 1997 - 1:15 p.m. (EDT) Mr. Kenneth H. Bacon, ASD (PA) DoD [USA Department of Defence] News Briefing [edited section of meeting] Q: On the <UFO> study that the CIA did over the weekend, or it was released or reported on over the weekend -- as Pentagon spokesman are you concerned about a report that says that the government willfully misled individuals to conceal programs? A: I've read the CIA study, and I have read what they said about the Air Force. It's their characterization of what the Air Force said. I have not gone back and checked what the Air Force said at the time, so I'd prefer not to comment on what the study said. It is not the policy of Secretary Cohen or any of the people who work for him to mislead the public. Q: Were you at all aware of any misleading of the public that was done by the Air Force prior? A: I was not aware of that. I will say that one interesting aspect of the report was that for years, <UFO> people have been charging that we've covered up the fact that there really are UFOs, and the CIA study confirms, as has every other study done by the government, that we have no evidence of UFOs. We have no evidence of extraterrestrial visitors to this planet. The study goes on to say that one explanation for many of these sightings might have been airplanes that were being tested at the time. Q: Do you think that applies to any programs that might be tested now, or can you say categorically that the Department does not engage in that kind of public relations activity in terms of programs that are perhaps flying today? A: First of all, we certainly have classified programs and we certainly have legitimate reasons for not disclosing some of the work we're doing, whether it's research and development or whether it's operations. I am not aware that we are putting out stories that misstate the truth about those programs. The distinction would be we just don't talk about the programs at all, so I certainly wouldn't talk about any of those programs today. [W 4]****** From: duncan@life.com Date: 4th August 1997 Source: UFO Magazine Date: July/August 1997 Chile announces UFOs are for real On 2nd April 1997, Chilean newspaper 'La Cuarta' published the following headline 'UFO Sighting of Arica is Confirmed by La Direccion General de Aeronautic Civil'. Luis Sanchez, Chilean Director of Skywatch International said this was the first time such an organization had attached it's name to such a statement. La Direccion General de Aeronautic Civil said that they publicly recognised that Chile was experiencing UFO sightings and that the phenomenon was real, not meteorotic or climatic. Sanchez said that the statement was due to the 'high quality' of an observation made by control tower staff at Chacalluta International Airport in Africa, the northernmost city in Chile. On Monday, 31st March, 1997, at 12.55am, three UFOs were seen by staff in the control tower and recorded on radar. They were tracked at speeds up to 8,000 mph. According to the eyewitnesses, over the Pacific Ocean, near Morro de Arica and remained there for two hours. At about 3.00am, the objects "flew away at very high speed," heading for the Andes. Airport director Julio Schettner said the UFOs hovered "at an altitude between 3,000 and 4,500 metres and emitted blue, red, green and yellow lights which made them clearly visible to the naked eye." Schettner added, "In our tower, it was not possible to track them on radar, so we contacted control towers in (Arequipa) Peru and Santiago (de Chile). None of them had flights registering in Arica at that moment." Schettner said "he had been doubtful about the existence of UFOs, but not any more," adding that they left Arica "at an astonishing speed." On Wednesday 2nd April 1997, the Direccion General de Aeronautica Civil (DGAC), Chile's civilian aeronautical ministry, announced that the three UFOs in Arica had been confirmed on radar, DGAC radar and Fuerzas Aereas de Chile (FACh) Air Force radar tracked the Arica UFOs "travelling at speeds of up to 12,800 kilometres (8,000 miles) per hour." In the capital, Santiago de Chile, a DGAC spokesman said, "Chile is experiencing OVNIs" (Spanish acronym for UFO). uk.ufo.nw asks: Do any of our Chilean readers have further information on this. Perhaps newspaper reports etc that could be translated, typed and e-mailed to the usual address. Visit UFO Magazines world wide web address address for full subscription information: http://www.ufomag.co.uk [W 5]****** Source: The Times newspaper Date: Friday 15th August 1997 Fossil footprints open way to row on 'genetic Eve' >From Ian Brodie in Washington The oldest-known footprints of a modern human being, dating back 117,000 years, have been found on the shores of a South African lagoon. Very possibly female, the fossils could spark a scientific debate over whether they are traces of the "genetic Eve". "These footprints are from the earliest of anatomically modern people," said Lee Berger, an American paleoanthropologist at the University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, who announced the discovery yesterday at the National Geographic Society in Washington. David Roberts, the British-born South African geologist who uncovered the three footprints, said: "The chances of finding something like this are millions to one." Unlike footprints unearthed in Tanzania, which were 3.6 million years old, the newly found ones were made by a human being whom we have a direct link. Physically she was the same as us, though not as developed mentally, walking upright with jutting jaw, high forehead and without the protruding eyebrow ridges of earlier man. Mr Berger admitted it was highly unlikely that the actual "genetic Eve" left the prints, but they were made at the right time on the continent to be hers. "Genetic Eve" is a hypothetical figure who lived in Africa between 100,000 and 300,000 years ago and who carried DNA potential of modern women. Scientists measuring the range of DNA in different populations today have concluded that we are all descended from one common female ancestor. The three footprints were discovered in rock along Langebaan lagoon, 60 miles north of Cape Town, where Mr Roberts was looking for them on a hunch. The discovery team believe the woman was a lone figure, perhaps 5ft 3in tall, trudging down a steep, chalky dune after a violent rainstorm. Within a few hours the dune dried out and the wind filled the footprints with sand. They were then buried and gradually turned into stone. The footprints are eight & a half inches long. The big toe, ball, arch and heel are all clear as the walker crunched down the wet surface. Since the discovery last year, nearby rocks have yielded Stone Age tools thought to have been crafted by the same people who walked the dunes. The discoveries provide evidence of anatomically modern human beings in an area of Africa that is believed to be the cradle of our ancestors. How well these humans could think is debated by scientists. They did not bury their dead nor leave traces of cave paintings as other did 50,000 to 75,000 years later, Mr Berger said. Ochre pigment has been near the lagoon that are up to 125,000 years old and scientists believe they were used by the early human beings. The earlier footprints found in Africa were left by pre-human apemen from a far distant branch of our family tree. Summing up his research, Mr Berger said: "An important message comes to us from the lagoon footprints. As diverse as the world is, as different as we look, we are an incredibly young species and all of us Africans." [W 6]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper Date: Thursday 14 August 1997 As men in black opens, a scientist tells us what aliens will really look like from Daniel Jeffreys in New York Labrador-sized, four arms, a mouth in it's stomach, and one day it'll land here For the second year running, the big summer film blockbuster fuels our obsession with extraterrestrials. Men in black, now showing in Britain, is a comedy about two US government agents whose job is to round up illegal aliens and pack them back to the planet. But is the reality rather more worrying? An increasing number of academics and experts believe that while such films are right to show that we are not alone, they are wrong in their portrayal of aliens. They argue that we should prepare for a shock. When we run into life forms from elsewhere in the galaxy, which will be very soon, they will treat us with contempt, pushing us aside like insects. Doctor Seth Shostak, one of the world's leading physicists and astronomers, is among those who say there are millions of aliens. And he says that when they turn up on Earth their technological superiority will make our attempts to find them, such as the current expedition to Mars, look puny. He publishes this worrying analysis in his book Sharing The Universe. Already his findings have been held by other scientists as the most effective argument yet for believing the universe is teaming with intelligent life forms, many of them far more ancient and advanced than us. Shustak, who is so confident that he has even described what the aliens will probably look like, believes we would be better diverting the billions spent on space exploration to working out how to cope when the inevitable contact with extra terrestrial civilisations take place. He estimate that there are more than 1,000 planets in our galaxy alone that house these super smart beings, many of which would regard humanity like we regard insects or rodents. 'Give me a halfway decent planet and I'll give you life,' he says, fresh from a radio telescopic sweep of nearby planets. 'There are 50 billion stars in the Milky Way similar to our sun, with 1.5 billion planets that share our characteristics. Many will have intelligent life.' More Americans believe alien landings have already taken place than think President Clinton is telling the truth about his extra-marrital affairs. If aliens are on their way, humanity has never been more receptive to their arrival, so long as they treat us nicely. Books and films tend to depict aliens as either friendly, in which case they resemble extra - large babies with big deer eyes (E.T., Close Encounters Of The Third Kind) or hostile, looking like a cross between an angry alligator and a malfunctioning set of chainsaws. In the first case they, come to educate us; in the second they come for lunch - and we're the main course. Neither of these is likely to happen on man's first date with visitors from the stars. 'Our initial contact will most likely be with some sort of self-replicating machine intelligence, 'says Schostak, who is the director of the Institute For The Search For Extra terrestrial Intelligence in California. 'It will have travelled astronomical distances specifically to gather information not to make friends or eat.' The City institute is not a group of `UFO fanatics. It used to be funded by Nasa until a cost conscious US Congress cut off its cash. Now it's paid for with millions of dollars from high task corporations like Microsoft, Intel and Hewlett-Pacard, reflecting how seriously many take the existence of alien life. This private sector fortune has allowed SETI to keep its massive array of radio telescopes aimed at the stars, gathering libraries full of information about distant solar systems every day. 'We know the nearest extraterrestrial intelligent life is a long way away,' says Shustak, at 46 the world's leading authority on what ET's need to thrive. 'Space travel is difficult, dangerous and slow.' Experts say that it would take more than 100 years to reach the nearest solar system which SETI thinks could support life, travelling at around 40,000 miles per second. No Star Trek fiction here. The Enterprise craft travels at the speed of light, 186,282 miles per second - and hitting even a small space rock at that speed would cause an impact equivalent to several nuclear bombs, destroying the ship in an instance. 'Thats why an intelligent machine representing the alien culture is probably a first visitor,' says Shustak. 'It will have been built by a far superior intelligence and will be capable of rebuilding itself and clones to launch on other missions. 'It will be programmed to expect an encounter with another civilisation and will make efforts to communicate with us while analysing our strengths and weaknesses.' Imagine how we would react if an alien box of tricks suddenly turned up riding alongside the Mir space station, electronically sniffing the Russian craft like a dog marking its territory? 'It will be a testing time,' says Shustak. 'Some people will want it destroyed, fearing that aliens who know we are here will want to colonise or kill us. 'There's also the chance that contacts with a civilisation much more advanced than ours will force humanity to develop an enormous inferiority complex. And that could cause human civilisation to crumble because we've assumed for so long that we're the top dogs.' Collapse might be especially likely if the aliens were no bigger than a labrador with reptillian skin, for arms and a mouth in their stomachs, something Shustak believes is quite possible. Using a mix of laws from physics, astronomy and biochemistry he has reduced what the kind of appearance intelligence aliens will have. 'There's no reason to suppose insects or reptiles failed to develop intelligence on other planets,' he says. 'The dinosaurs were on their way to complex intelligence before a capitalism wiped them out.' Shustak and his SETI colleagues also agree the aliens are likely to have heads, because that's an efficient way of housing a brain, and the eyes and ears will be attached to their skulls. 'We have our hearing and sight near the brain for a reason, it minimise the length of the bodies most complex nerve network,' he says. 'But there's no pressing reason for the mouth to be in the head. The stomach would be more efficient.' As would more than two arms. The aliens will definitely have some limbs, to allow them to manipulate tools, a necessary part of an intelligent culture. Theyr're also likely to be smaller. 'We think Earth's gravity is unusual, 'says Shustak. 'Most alien species will have more gravity and that means they'll tend to be compact. They will need to be at least the size of a basketball to sustain intelligence but after that any size up to three feet will do.' Shustak thinks we will probably be surprised by the aliens 'appearance.' Just go to the zoo and look at the diversity there, then magnifying the species many thousands of times, 'he says. 'Aliens across the universe will come in many different shapes and sizes, which will only intensify a anxiety when we meet them for the first time.' One alien life form we can probably rule out is giants. Even with low gravity they are just not viable as an ancient advanced civilisation. They eat to much, causing early depletion of their planets resources, and they can barely lift a fraction of their own weight. Brainy elephants are not likely to be the first aliens to beam down. The most chilling aspect of Shustaks research is his claim that alien civilisations are much smarter than humans. He bases this observation on the relative age of Man. We are a young civilisation and many aliens will be much more ancient with technology we have never dreamed of. Take a look at what mankind has done to less intelligent species and the prospect of the inevitable alien visit looks alarming. If we're lucky we'll end up as pets; if we're unlucky we'll go the ways of cows, mink or crocadiles. Either way, it Shustak is right, our chances of staying free and independent are remote. The aliens may be smaller than us but they will be a lot smarter. Sharing The Universe will be published by Victor Gollancz at 8 pounds 95 pence next month. [A FEARFUL SYMMETRY - part 2] United Kingdom UFO Network would like to thank Lynne Bishop and Bookfinder Publishing for permission to serialise 'A Fearful Symmetry' Readers may like to visit the web sites of both Lynne and Bookfinder Publishing at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3862/ http://www.bookfinder.simplenet.com All parts of this serialisation previous to the current segment can be read in their entirety at Bookfinder's web site above. --- A FEARFUL SYMMETRY A TRUE STORY OF ALIEN INTRUSION INTO HUMAN LIVES By D. Lynne Bishop A FEARFUL SYMMETRY Copyright 1995 by D. Lynne Bishop All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical including photocopying, recording or otherwise without prior permission of the publisher, except by a reviewer who may quote brief passages. First Printing September 1995 Printed in the United States of America BOOKFINDER PUBLISHING --- CHAPTER TWO The event which led to my discovery of something bizarre in my life began innocently enough on a beautiful, warm, springlike day in 1972. I was eighteen years old, having recently graduated as Salutatorian in the rural high school I had attended. My mother and I had tended to some personal business in a large city in Central Arkansas. At one o'clock in the afternoon, we had left the city to begin the trip back home--a trip of approximately three hours' duration. We were both relaxed that day, and in pleasant moods. Our business had been successfully transacted, and as we drove toward home, our conversation was animated and lively--but not containing any element of unusual topics. After two hours of driving time, we approached a small town located at the base of a valley ringed by a part of the Ozark Mountains. A road crew was blasting that day on the mountainous road leading into the valley, and one of the crew members flagged us, signaling the traffic in our lane to stop. Our car was in the lead, with three or four other cars behind us at the time. After clearing the road of debris from the blasting, the road crew allowed our lane to continue, and we drove slowly down the mountainside, nearing a turn we would take at the junction of an intersecting highway. Mother and I both recalled seeing the turn--and then everything went totally blank. I groggily "came to" just seconds later, or so I thought. Mother was still driving the car, but seemed unusually quiet, particularly since we had just been laughing and joking, and talking about only being an hour away from home. We suddenly looked at each other, realizing we had no idea where we were! We were on a stretch of unfamiliar paved road, with no road signs or other indicators of our location. The pavement was pitch black and completely new looking, as if it had been freshly laid and never driven on prior to our being there. You can imagine our agitation as the situation slowly dawned on us. Only moments before, we had been on a familiar highway, headed home . . and now we had no earthly idea where we were or what had happened to us. With one accord, we agreed we should turn around, hoping that by doing so we would regain our lost territory. The road was extremely straight and narrow, and hemmed in on both sides with huge, overhanging trees, and an expanse of deep forest to either side. After a few minutes (although it seemed like hours!), we located a very small turnaround on the left-hand side of the road, and Mother prepared to turn into it. As she did so, I screamed, "Mother, there's a car coming toward us!" She completed the turn, and we both looked to see where the car had gone, for it would have been on a collision course with us as we pulled into the small area. To my amazement and chagrin, there was not a car anywhere in sight. Completely baffled and perplexed, as well as thoroughly shaken by the entire experience, we turned around and continued driving in the opposite direction. Suddenly, we realized that we were on the wrong side of the town, but we had not driven through it to get there! We found our turn onto the intersecting highway (from the opposite direction), and continued the drive toward home, puzzled about what had just occurred. The event had led to a buildup of unease and a desire to get home as soon as possible. As we continued driving, a vague sense of strangeness caused me to glance occasionally out both windows, gazing into the tree-lined roadside. With my heart in my throat, I managed to barely croak to Mother, "Do you see that silver craft that's following us?" We were terrified by this time, and had no desire to stop the car. The windows were rolled down, and Mother managed to confirm that there was, indeed, a white or silver-colored craft that seemed to be pacing our car, falling neither behind nor pulling ahead of us. The craft was cigar-shaped, with no wings or tail, and there was no discernible sound emanating from the craft. There were no identifying marks on it, and this particularly bothered Mother, who, along with my father, had served in the U.S. Army, and both were very knowledgeable about aircraft. After several minutes of "cat-and-mouse," the strange craft finally moved off out of sight, and we sped off toward the safety of home. Upon arriving home, we discovered that a trip normally requiring three hours had taken us over four. It was apparent that something peculiar had happened between our "blank" spell, and "coming to" on the wrong side of town. And yet, twenty years were to pass by before we could bring ourselves to publicly seek answers to this mind-boggling affair. As I sat across from John Carpenter on April 25, 1992, the enormity of what I was preparing to do rushed in on me. I was stepping into "terra incognita," with no idea of the outcome--and no way of predicting it. I had no basis for comparison--nothing in my life that I was aware of had prepared me for dealing with the concept of alien abduction. Intellectually, I felt prepared for the undertaking, but I had not even begun to realize the emotional toll this "journey" would exert on me. Prior to the actual induction of hypnosis, we relaxed with a pre-session conversation, touching on the many aspects of the UFO and alien phenomenon. John asked if there had been anything, in particular, which had gotten me interested in UFOs. I responded, "It's been lifelong." I told him that Mother had seen a "classic" UFO in Houston, Texas, when my twin sister and I were just babies. I could recall hearing about Sputnik as a very young child, and remembered my entire family watching the satellite Echo go over when my father had been stationed in Germany. Suddenly, I realized that a major portion of my life had been spent in sky-watching--and I wondered why. Had some hidden force been manipulating my actions and life so long ago? John also questioned whether I had ever seen anything I couldn't explain. His question elicited the memory of an orange sphere that my family and I had seen often during the 1970's. I described the object to him, "This particular object was an orange disc-like thing. It was a vivid orange, ranging toward the red spectrum. A slow-moving object, it always seemed to move with a slow, steady glide--almost floating. We usually saw it on Thursdays, and it seemed always to be on a North- South trajectory." "What about dreams?", John then asked. For the first time that morning (but certainly not the last!), I became quite agitated and nervous. He had hit a nerve with that almost innocently slipped-in question. There had been one "dream" in my past that had continued to plague me throughout my adult years, because I had never been certain it was truly a dream. There had been a "feeling" to it not associated with the normal dreams I had. "Well, I've had two dreams of different kinds of aliens. The first one actually bothers me more than the second. "In the first 'dream,' I'm at the residence where all of us lived as young teenagers, where Mom's house was. I'm in the house, and I'm aware that other family members are there, but I'm not really seeing them. I'm just aware that they're there. There was a sliding glass door that faced the West, and it looked out into a small pasture, or meadow-like area in front of our barn. Suddenly, something catches my eye, so I look closer, and it looks like your standard UFO going over at about treetop level. "When I see this, I go rushing out the door. The craft is not very big--it looks like just a small landing-craft. It continues flying northerly, toward our pond. Like an idiot, I just stand there in the pasture, watching . . . and as it reaches the pond, it stops. It's daylight--right around dusk-- so I can see it clearly. "Suddenly, it starts moving back toward me, and I panic, thinking that it's seen me, so I bolt for the house. I yell to my family to start locking the doors and windows, because we're being invaded. I finally get inside the house, turn around to look out the door again, and see that the craft has landed and some aliens are getting out. The aliens are humanoid, kind of small. They have an almost flowing-type movement--not jointed like a human, but more loose. I realize that we're in trouble, because I know there is nothing we can do to keep them out. "All at once, these creatures are inside the house--and although this sounds crazy--my family and I are frozen in place. One of the entities starts approaching me, and I have such a feeling of dread. I don't want it to touch me, but it's getting closer . . . and my eyes fixate on its hand as it reaches out toward me. The hand is so long-fingered! I think, 'Don't touch me!' even as its hand comes near. And then I hear in my head this thought from the creature, 'This is how we breed.'" John then asked about the second dream I'd recalled. While this didn't carry with it the intensity of feeling the first one had, I felt I should describe it also, in case it contained hidden information that would be useful in ferreting out answers. "In this dream, I'm at the same residence. I'm out in the front yard, and there's a flyover of what appears to be military helicopters. They fly across the street in an east direction, to an area where there is another pond on some neighboring land. There is a large quantity of ducks on the pond, and as the helicopters pass over the water, they drop off these hairy, apelike alien creatures (like Bigfoot). The ducks panic when the aliens land, and start running across the highway in front of our house. I run out to the highway to try to divert the traffic on the road, to prevent the ducks from being crushed. One car pulls over, and the driver--a lady--gets out and asks me what's causing the ducks to panic. I tell her about the helicopters and the aliens. "Then there's a horrible 'roaring' sound from the direction of the pond, and these apelike aliens start pouring forth. As they capture all of us, I discover that the military and the government have made a pact with these creatures. Basically, they have agreed to let the aliens have a part of the world, in exchange for subduing it, and the government and the military will have a co-control." As the preliminary interview drew to a close, John asked the question I had been both dreading and expecting, "Knowing that you've had some kind of memory lapse, what do you expect will come out of all this?" It was a question I had already asked myself--and I still had no real concrete answer to it. I replied to him, "I've analyzed that a lot, and I really don't know what to expect. I'm afraid of not breaking through that blank space. And I've been a skeptic on the idea of aliens and interaction with humans. If something like that were to come out during this, I'd have to do a lot of rethinking." HYPNOSIS SESSIONS Lynne: April 25, 1992 Frances: May 3, 1992 Springfield, Missouri Although the hypnosis sessions were conducted independently, they have been combined to show the corroborating parallels between the two testimonies. No sharing of memories recalled under hypnosis occurred until both sessions were completed. What follows are excerpts from the actual transcripts of those sessions: John: (Hypnosis has been induced and the subject's memory has been returned to the time of the event.) You're in the car next to your mother. What are you wearing, and can you picture the car? Lynne: I've got on blue jeans. It's a white car with a red interior. Frances: It was not my favorite car. I thought it looked boxy. John: . . . and you're going down the hill, and you can see your turn. Describe what you notice as you look out, anything that you notice . . . Lynne: Well, I can see a car . . . it only has a driver in it. There are no passengers. I think it's a guy who's driving. He's kind of got a weird look . . . like he's seeing something . . . like he's shocked or something. Frances: I see a car . . . I don't know if I thought he'd hit me, or I'd hit him . . . I see a light flash, off and on . . . He said something I couldn't hear. John: And what do you do, as you notice the car? Feel the car, and remember . . . Lynne: (At this point, I broke out of hypnosis. I opened my eyes and sat up.) (Expelled breath) . . . (Nervous laugh) . . . Ooh . . . That was weird! John: (Calming the subject) . . . Relax, just relax . . . (Re-induced hypnotic state) . . . Just be like a camera and report the images . . Lynne: (Nervous laughter) . . . The car . . . went forward . . . and up! Frances: . . . The car . . . moving so fast . . . I moved so fast! John: . . . and if you were to look at your mother right now, what is she doing? How does she seem" Lynne: She's . . . not doing anything . . . just sitting there. I can see her hands on the wheel, but she's not driving it. Frances: . . . The car was moving so fast, I couldn't control it . . Didn't seem to need to . . . John: . . . At this point, you may have said something to each other, or perhaps not . . . but you can hear clearly anything that you might be able to hear, any sound . . . Lynne: I don't really hear any talking. Frances: I don't . . . I don't hear anything. John: . . . Notice what happens next . . . if anything changes . . . Lynne: Um, it's kind of an odd thing. I can kinda . . . for some reason, I can see Mom and me standing . . . like, Mom's here, and I'm here (accompanied by hand motions). Frances: I'm standing. John: Do you see your car at this point? Lynne: Uhhh . . . (Nervous laugh) . . . I don't really see the car. Frances: No. John: Notice, as you're standing there . . . look and see if you can tell what your feet are touching, or what's right around you. Lynne: It's a solid floor of some kind, just kinda gray. There's a gray wall in front, probably ten feet away. There are no windows. No dividing line where the wall meets the floor. It's not angular. It just kinda looks molded . . . It's not a normal room . . . Frances: It's in a . . . like a circle. Silvery . . . I see a door . John: . . . Now that you're seeing more, you can really tune it in . . You'll be even more alert to see everything around you, and to notice all that happens . . . Lynne: I get a feeling of movement . . . the focal point seems to be real limited . . . I'm moving, but not walking . . . It's like a conveyor belt . . . I don't see Mom. I don't know . . . someone else may be with me . . . Frances: I don't see (my daughter) yet. (Pause) . . . Um, a figure . . That . . . There's (my daughter)! There she is! A long way away . . there were four . . . but it was so far away, I couldn't tell who . . a long corridor . . . (My daughter) is with them. They're all in stride, even the short one. Two are about her height (5'6"). She didn't scream. John: Okay, and now you can . . . If it's hard to look at, you can just take a peek and freeze it, like a snapshot. Take a quick, safe peek, and describe all that you can notice about them Lynne: . . . Clothed in silver, no defining line at the waist, form-fitting and skin-tight. Like a body suit. No hair, a bald head . . rounded, not human-shaped. Bigger head with large brain area, smaller neck. The outfit (it's wearing) has a turtleneck. Suit seems to continue down, covering the feet. Hand is definitely not human. (Nervous laugh) . . . Um, let's see. It's . . . longer fingered. I can see an opposable thumb, but I don't think it has the same number of fingers (as humans). It kind of curled its hand when it reached out. It's face . . . is kind of odd. It's really flat on the bottom--like it's wearing a mask. There's a bulge in the forehead region. I'm not seeing eyes right now. It's like the forehead kind of bulges up and out. And the rest of the face is flat and narrowed down, very sharp. It's a helmet . . . I see a visor . . . like a motorcycle helmet. No ears . . . Long sleeved outfit . . . Frances: . . . Two arms, two legs . . . (Laugh) . . . Uh, they don't have heads like people have heads. Like a mask . . . faceplate . . . faceplate. Head shape is ovoid. Faceplate . . . reflective, plastic- looking. Curved across the face. They do have eyes . . . like big sunglasses. (I wear sunglasses; doesn't everybody?) Don't see hair. Hands are bony-looking, long-fingered . . . I didn't count 'em. Sensation of pale blue form-fitting outfit with long sleeves. No belt around the middle. I didn't see any ears. John: Okay, watch and see how the scene changes. What is it that you do . . . or what changes the scene in some way? Lynne: I see Mom again. There's a scene shift . . . a different place. I see . . . I keep wanting to talk to her. I want so badly to get a response from her. She's standing on something black. It's strange . . . I keep getting this idea of . . . almost like a tube. She's in it . . . she's standing there so quiet . . . It's a clear tube, just big enough for her to fit it--like a one-person size. There's a...like a "Command" area here . . . like an instrument panel. It has a smooth top, like glass or something clear. I can see an array of something in that area. I see a "flash" of the back of one of the entities working the controls there. It bothers me . . . I think it's doing something that pertains to Mom. Frances: (My daughter's) here, behind me. We're in this room together. Makes me think of a submarine. It's got . . . instruments . . dials and a thing in the middle . . . like a periscope . . . a shaft, big, heavy. I see readouts, but I can't read 'em. Like computer . . . monitor. Old, scribed writing. I'm under this periscope-thing. Like it was open . . . something to do with the opening. They told me to do something. I wanted (my daughter), and I did something . . . something with this periscope-thing. John: All right. Move forward in time to a point where you see something different. Notice all that you can tell, and when something changes. What's the first thing you notice happening differently? Lynne: Hmm . . . I see us standing on grass! That's the first color I've seen. That's kind of nice! I've actually got some green! My vision is circumscribed, though . . . very, very inhibited. I see the grass and us, but it's like . . . there's no vision out there . . . no peripheral vision, or something. Frances: We're out . . . back on the ground. John: I wonder how you got to the grass? Move back just one step in time, back up slowly . . . and see how you got to the grass . . . Lynne: I had a feeling of movement at a diagonal . . . like an invisible escalator. A hatch opened up . . . and then that feeling of the invisible escalator. Looking up, I see something circular, spherical. I get the impression of a silver color again, and toward the outer edges there's an indentation, or a fluted area. It's hovering; it's not moving. There's something else in the center--a shape that's moving. It doesn't stay constant. It's a fluctuating, changing geometrical shape--seems to be moving counterclockwise. Frances: It's like that thing was open . . . like a porthole . . . an iris. I slid back into myself. We stood under the craft. John: Moving ahead in time, how does that image change? Lynne: I see the car on the side of the road, not very far away . . . not even a couple hundred feet, maybe, or even closer. We walk toward the car and get into it, and drive away. I see the craft leave. It takes off fast, straight up and then toward the left. Frances: The bottom closes up, and then I'm in the car. The craft is up, up. It's going away. Like . . . it goes straight up. And I see it going away. [Part 3 in issue {80}] --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK STATEMENT uk.ufo.nw statement: The articles or text appearing within these pages are not necessarily the views or opinions of United Kingdom UFO Network. REPORTS Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk WWW Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ BACK ISSUES & FILES For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk IRC - (INTERNET RELAY CHAT) The meetings take place at 11pm (2300hrs) each and every Saturday night. Times will vary depending on your location in the world. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward From: "skyeking@aye.net" <skyeking@aye.net> [Jerry Washington] Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:45:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:14:48 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward > Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 03:33:32 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward man > >Robertson advocates stoning for UFO enthusiasts > >Great Barrington, MA -- In a recent pronouncement, television evangelist > >and head of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, advocated death by > >stoning for UFO enthusiasts... > Guys like Robertson are deranged, plain and simple. How he can rationalize > advocating murder with his professed belief in "brotherly love" is > something only a pure and classic, textbook schizophrenic can pull off. > It's a long drop from that high horse that this combination of sperm and > ova that calls itself 'Robertson' is so precariously perched up on. If he's > anything like the others he'll be on TV begging the congegations forgivness > for screwing goats or some such nonsense eventually... How ironic that Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and the other modern-day inquisitors of their ilk are so adept at promoting the very sins that they decry. Intolerance and bigotry are considered evils by these false prophets only when it effects them. And God forbid that someone should use logic and common sense in an attempt to come to grips with the eternal mysteries of this world, when we all know they're the doings of an english speaking, white male, megalomaniac, living in a city cast in gold that's worthy of "Mr. T." It was particularly amusing to watch Falwell get his panties in an uproar after the Martian rock incident. Thoroughly rattled by the hints of possible life on the Red Planet -- which would fly in the face of his own narrow beliefs -- I thought the ol' blowhard would blow a cork! And while I don't relish the notion of an "alien invasion," it would almost be worth it to watch the shyster go "nuclear." Perhaps he'd trigger a chain-reaction... Jerry Washington SD KY/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 UFO activity and the lunar cycle From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 00:23:23 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:05:15 -0400 Subject: UFO activity and the lunar cycle Hi all, A while ago there was a discussion here about the relation between the number of UFO sightings and the lunar cycle. I found this on another mailing list. I don't know who Lew Tery is. +++ One individual by the name of Lew Tery has been working on some ideas regarding UFOs and geomagnetic anomalies. I will go into what he has discovered (although the concept of the relationship is not new) and let you judge that for yourself.=B7 After purchasing aeromagnetic and gravitational anomaly maps=B7 from the United States Geological Survey, it becomes evident that=B7 there was indeed a valid connection between these areas and UFOs.=B7 Mr. Tery gave a lecture in Arizona about that relationship, and=B7 was subsequently harassed by the FBI, and told that the=B7 information is "sensitive." Mr. Tery took the hint and declined=B7 to talk publicly about it to the degree that he had been doing.=B7 Both the aeromagnetic and gravitational (Bougier Gravity)=B7 maps indicate basic field strength, as well as areas of high and=B7 low field strength. Interestingly enough, the areas of maximum=B7 and minimum field strength have the following:=B7 o All have frequent UFO sightings. o All are either on Indian Reservations, government land, or the government is trying to buy up the land. o Many of them, especially where several are clustered together, are suspected bases areas and/or areas where mutilations and abductions have historically taken place. In these observations, Mr. Tery has gone far, but he has gone=B7 a little farther in noting that there are times when the UFOs are=B7 seen in these areas. Through painstaking research, Mr. Tery found=B7 that the sightings, as well as many abductions and mutilations,=B7 occur:=B7 o On the new moon or within two days before the new moon.=B7 o On the full moon or within two days before the full moon.=B7 o At the perihelion (moon closest to earth) or within two days before the perihelion. __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Wanted: aerospace background From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:34:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:16:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Wanted: aerospace background > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 23:41:13 -0300 > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Wanted: aerospace background > > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:14:17 +0100 > > From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Wanted: aerospace background > > > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 07:59:50 +0200 (MET DST) > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> > > > Subject: Wanted: aerospace background > > > Maybe someone can me help me out with this. > Re Acceleration, there is published data showing that a trained pilot > can perform a tracking task while being accelerated at 14 Gs for 2 > minutes. Properly constrained one can stand 30Gs for one second. Colonel > Stapp survived 43 Gs in going from over 600mph to zero.. in a hurry. > Depends on duration and direction and training. > Stan Friedman.. I think Stanton Friedman was too modest to mention this Henny but in his article "Flying Saucers and Physics" pages 7-9 he does have a lengthy discussion with references on G-loading of craft and pilots. You can obtain it from: $4.00 US also ask for the publications list. UFORI PO Box 3584 Sta B Fredericton, New Brunswick Canada E3A 5J8 Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: UFO's Flying Over East River - N.Y.C. From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:48:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:17:34 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO's Flying Over East River - N.Y.C. > Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 02:20:32 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFO's Flying Over East River - N.Y.C. > >From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] > >Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 05:52:21 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO's Flying Over East River - N.Y.C. > There _are_ UFO's flying over NY. We need more eyes on > the skies! Report your sighting to CUFOS or an equivalent group Linda. > It's important to get these reports into the database that some of these > groups are compiling. Someone else may have seen and reported the same > thing. Unless you report it,... no-one will ever know. > John Velez > John Velez > jvif@spacelab.net Hi John, Don't you ever wonder how after 50 or more years these UFOs flying over NY still haven't learned to find parking spot? Maybe they stop by and mingle with us natives as tourists? Who or what will benefit from another N years of sightings reports? Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Raymore, Saskatchewan #1, #2 Crop Circle Reports From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 17:58:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:21:06 -0400 Subject: Raymore, Saskatchewan #1, #2 Crop Circle Reports Raymore, Saskatchewan #1, #2 Crop Circle Reports (Canada) Update - August 19, 1997 Have been talking to reporters, etc. almost non-stop today. Just found out about second report this morning. Both are on the Kawacatoose Indian Reservation at Panashi, near Raymore. I have newspaper articles, colour photos (ground; possibly aerials as well from another pilot), plus video being sent to me by one of the reporters who was very helpful (Sarah McGrath with BBS TV in Regina, Saskatchewan). 1st report is three circles, large one about 60 feet, with two small companions about 6 feet each, at the "12:00 and 9:00 positions" around and very close to it. In wheat. First seen August 7. Neatly laid and swirled, according to Sarah. They kind of look like half of a Celtic cross design, with two circles missing. The edges of the large circle looked "singed". They were quickly swathed by the farmer, who was getting people from the reservation tromping and driving through them. Another TV station (Global) took aerial footage, but *only after they had been cut down* (I talked to what people saw on the news, not the circles as they first were found (in response again to Mr. Rutkowski's earlier post). 2nd report is a single circle, in wheat, about 12 feet in diametre. Found August 10 / 11. Same Indian Reservation, separate field. Looked "different" somehow. I will also be talking to the Panashi RCMP officer tomorrow morning who investigated them. Articles in the Leader Post newspaper (Regina, Saskatchewan, Aug. 18) and the Star Phoenix newspaper (Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Aug. 16). Will have copies soon. Also follow-up stories / articles to come soon, with BBS TV and the Star Phoenix. More details when available (and hopefully more reports!). Paul Anderson Director Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Director The Millennium Group Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/ (under construction)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Remaking Ufology From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:50:04 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:31:57 -0400 Subject: Remaking Ufology Greetings from Australia, Recently Rebecca posed some questions that should be asked by everyone interested in UFOs. There was also some discussion of ways to improve UFO research by applying a scientific structure to it. I would like to see this thread continue as it seems to me to be more important than any other discussion currently on this list. There are, I believe, 3 main issues to be dealt with: 1) Define Ufology. At the heart it should obviously mean the examination of Unidentified Flying Objects, yet it has come to be associated with 'alien visitors', 'time travel', 'ancient societies', even unnatural creatures (chupa)! Disciplined research is hardly possible while ever more aspects are added to the field. The first task must be to distill the very essence of UFO. IMO the more severe the distillation the better, it makes construction of a foundation easier and ensures that hypotheses and theories built on that foundation are more stable. Some time ago I attempted a statistical analysis of UFO reports around Australia. I set very tough criteria; multiple independent witnesses, only daylight sightings etc. The first problem I faced was dealing with many UFO organisations. The failure of this project can be directly attributed to the lack of cooperation from most organisations. These groups believed that they 'owned' the reports they had, simply because the UFO report was made to them. There needs to be complete openess amongst UFO groups, with a united purpose this could happen, but the current arrangement, primarily driven by faith or potential profit from publication is untenable. Until UFOlogy is clearly defined this situation will continue. 2)Data collection. For at least 50 years people and groups have been collecting witness testimony, but exactly what has that brought us? It's my assertion that further collection of witness reports will add no value at all! In a scientific sense, if you want to measure the brightness of a light, you don't write down how bright you thought it was, you measure the brightness with a piece of equipment that can be calibrated or checked against a calibrated source. You then have some data that means the same thing to anyone who sees it. An urgent priority should be to invent test equipment that can be deployed to UFO groups around the world at reasonable cost. Such equipment combined with video would be powerful data collecting tools. This would redefine what it means to belong to a UFO group, instead of staying home and watching the X-files or speaking to someone who saw a light in the sky, members would be out attempting to collect data first-hand. 3)Form hypotheses and hopefully test them. Using the data collected (and only the data), try to determine new facts about UFOs that can be tested and verified. This sort of process leads to better test equipment that in turn leads to better data that leads to better hypotheses and theories etc etc. The hypotheses and theories would be published in a peer-reviewed journal where they could be open to international debate, hopefully without the personality attacks that help make UFOlogy look like a kindergarten. There also seems to be a lot of censorship in Ufology at present, for example, I have seen much information on the internet about STS-48, but no one seems to be referencing Vince DiPietro's analysis of that video, but go to a site about the 'Mars face' and you're sure to see his name. Conclusions based on faith and desire should be crushed under conclusions based on facts. Dave Everett.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 fccinfo@fcc.gov From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 22:50:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:22:28 -0400 Subject: fccinfo@fcc.gov Hello All, Please give this the widest possible distribution. Copies of the following e-mail should be sent directly to: Mr. Reed Hundt, Chairman, FCC fccinfo@fcc.gov, By as many people as can be recruited to participate. We _can_ put a stop to this nonsense. John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. =========================================================================== >X-Sender: craddock@west.net >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:00:52 -0700 >To: webmaster@cseti.org >From: "A.J. Craddock" <webmaster@cseti.org> >Subject: Pat Robertson says kill all UFO believers > >From: BOB SHELL, [76750,2717] >TO: Steven M. Greer, MD, [103275,1472] >DATE: 8/19/97 9:36 AM > >RE: Pat Robertson says kill all UFO believers > >The following was posted on UFO Updates and, frankly, scares >the hell out of me. > >I once worked for this slime ball Robertson for a short time, and I know >how religious he really is. All he cares about is money, and he will say >anything that keeps it rolling in. > >I should point out that any television which broadcasts programs like this >advocating killing and/or violence is in violation of FCC regulations and >can have its charter revoked if people complain. > >I think it's time to write some letters to Washington, folks. > >Bob > >PLEASE REPOST THIS BROADLY > > >FREEDOM WRITER PRESS RELEASE > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 28, 1997 >CONTACT: Skipp Porteous (413) 528-3800 > >Robertson advocates stoning for UFO enthusiasts > > >Great Barrington, MA -- In a recent pronouncement, television evangelist >and head of the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, advocated death by >stoning for UFO enthusiasts. > >Freedom Writer magazine, in its July/August issue, mailed today, >disclosed Robertson's statement. Freedom Writer is published by the >Institute for First Amendment Studies, a group that monitors the right. > >Robertson used the news of the July 4th Mars landing to promote his >extreme beliefs. A segment on the July 8, 1997 broadcast of The 700 Club >featured news of the Mars Pathfinder mission. Employing the historical >event as a starting point, the program delved into the possibility of >the existence of UFOs and space aliens. > >While Robertson viewed the space program with suspicion, on a more >serious note, he launched into a diatribe against those who entertain >the existence of space aliens and UFOs. He said, in a rambling >discourse, that if such things exist, they are simply demons trying to >lead people away from Christ. According to Robertson, the threat is so >serious that people who believe in space aliens should be put to death >by stoning -- according to "God's word." > >"The Bible says the Earth belongs to man, but the heavens belong to the >Lord," Robertson said. > >"He has given us the Earth. He also warned, way back when Moses was >writing down not only what is the Ten Commandments, but Deuteronomy, >which is almost the Second Law. > >"Here is what he said to the children of Israel about this whole matter: > >"'If there is found among you, within any of your gates which the Lord >your God gives you, a man or a woman who has been wicked in the sight of >the Lord your God, in transgressing His covenant, who has gone and >served other gods and worshipped them, either the sun or moon or any of >the hosts of heaven which I have not commanded you, and you hear of it, >then you shall inquire diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain >that such an abomination has been committed in Israel, then you shall >bring out to your gates that man or woman who has committed that wicked >thing, and stone to death that man or woman with stones.'" (Deuteronomy >17:2-5, NKJV) > >"Now, that's what Moses said to the children of Israel about those who >worship the sun and the moon and the hosts of heaven, because these >things, at best, are lifeless nothings, or, if they are intelligent, >they're demonic. And, yes, there is a host of heaven. There are angels >and there are fallen angels. There is no question about it." > >"Can a demon appear as a slanty-eyed, funny-looking creature? Of course >he can, or it can. Of course they can deceive people. And if they can >lead somebody away from the true God, or away from Jesus Christ, anyway >it happens, it doesn't matter, you will lose your salvation. It doesn't >matter how they get you. The question is, did they get you, and under >what guise? > >"This is man in rebellion against God, who refuses to take God's Law. >And God says, 'My covenant says you won't do this. And if I find anybody >in Israel,'-- "which is his pure nation" -- 'If I find anybody in Israel >that's doing this sort of thing, then I want you to take him out and >dispose of him." > >"It's a clear violation of God's word." > >Skipp Porteous, Freedom Writer publisher, commented: "As the founder and >chairman of the Christian Coalition -- a group dedicated to becoming the >most powerful political force in America -- Robertson's extreme ideas >need to be taken seriously, for they not only negate pluralism, but >condemn to death those who dare to believe differently." > > > > > "We must say all the words that should be spoken, before they are lost and gone forever" Chris De Burgh. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: UFO's Flying Over East River N.Y.C. From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortil] Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 04:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:33:28 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO's Flying Over East River N.Y.C. >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 02:20:32 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO's Flying Over East River - N.Y.C. Hello Errol and everyone: >Also, if the sighting was at night, bear in mind that there are >busy landing patterns for LaGuardia that fly near to your >location headed for Queens. Airplanes have red lights too. If >it was a daylight sighting then that's a whole other ballgame. I know the busy landing patterns airplane's have as they fly near my location to LaGuardia airport. At night, their lights shine bright red. My sighting was in the afternoon. The helicopters that seemed to trail them had reflector like devices on the drivers side. These contraptions seemed to be flexable because I saw the river, the sky and the buildings' colors reflecting in them. They were all flying low. The last time I saw these objects (UFOs), I was sitting at Pier 17 with a friend. We weren't sure of what they were because they were flying too high up. They were reddish in color. I'd realized that the objects I've seen last week out of my apartment window seemed to be flying lower, because I was watching them from the 12th floor (and not at ground level). We watched for about 20 or 30 seconds before they disappeared into thin air. I don't know where they were going, but they were hovering aeound the Brooklyn Bridge. So, I don't know if they were travelling to Brooklyn or Queens. >There are UFO's flying over NY. We need more eyes on the >skies! Report your sightings to CUFOS or an equivalent group >Linda. It's important to get these reports into the database that >some of these groups are compiling. Someone else may have >seen and reported the same thing. Unless you report it... no-one >will ever know. >John Velez I wish I would have thought of reporting it to CUFOS, or whomever. But to tell you the truth, that wasn't on my mind at the time. This was the first time I had ever seen real unidentifed flying objects full faced. My neighbor became frightened and ran out of my disfunc- tional door. My fear of seeing these things, being left home alone, and not being able to shut my door, left me beside myself. CUFOS? Does anyone have the phone number on hand? <G> Thanks for your input, John. If there's a next time...I'll call you!!! > I tried several months ago to organize a summer skywatch >over NYC. I'm really sorry to report that NO-ONE responded. You're right, we ought to have a summer skywatch. It's the first time I've heard that you've tried to organize one. Consider me your first response. Regards, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: The New World UFOrder From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Aug 97 09:08:31 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:27:38 -0400 Subject: Re: The New World UFOrder >Subject: The New World UFOrder >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 97 03:59:20 -0500 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >UFOironyology - UFOupperlipologist >One who is able to express in no loose terms the irony of UFO in >an autopsyicle context without having ever seen the reason why. >Nominated leader: Bob Shell Why thank you, sir! (I think!) Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Aug 97 09:10:39 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:28:16 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:58:26 -0500 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward > man Hell is a place specially reserved for those who believe in it. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 PROJECT-1947 - The Movie, "U. F. O." From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:38:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:36:46 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - The Movie, "U. F. O." Greetings List Members, Gary Mangiacorpia sends his thanks for the material he received as a result of the requests on the Project 1947, Current Encounters, and UFO UpDates lists. He especially wished to thank Murray Bott who came up with the original "Lobby Cards" for the movie. (Murray, he felt that these items were so valuable that you should have them back, and made full size photographs of the "cards" for his research. They should be in the mail to you shortly.) Best regards, Jan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 20 Last Message From UpDates 'til PM-08-24-97 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:08:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:08:07 -0400 Subject: Last Message From UpDates 'til PM-08-24-97 Here endeth the Posts til Sunday Afternoon/Evening.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 UpDates Back On Line From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:18:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:18:55 -0400 Subject: UpDates Back On Line Gentle Subscriber, My thanks for your patience. Another five hours of video shot, edited and played-back. Happy corporate client, happy 250 conference-attendees who went home this morning with instant-dubs and absolutely-bushed but flush me. My first experience with DV-Cam. Stunning images, indistingishable from Betacam at a fraction of the cost, on a mini-cassette. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 09:24:38 cst Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:56:48 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >Date: 19 Aug 97 09:35:59 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >>From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 15:26:18 cst >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >So Vince, >Go ahead and report me to the BBB! >Bob I have no complaint against you -- not since you 'fessed-up and admitted that you have no more personal knowledge or expertise in regards to validating the age of the AA "film" than any casual viewer of the video. Does you defensiveness on this topic mean that you consider yourself a "salesman"? Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 09:41:50 cst Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:58:05 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:17:07 -0500 >From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 >Snippety, snip, snip... >> are equivalent, and that it's somehow egocentric and/or impolite >>to point-out the difference. >> I couldn't disagree more. The side-show aspects of ufology >>must not be allowed to obscure and obstruct the serious >>inquiry into this potentially important phenomenon. >> Regards, >> Vince >Oh, Vince... Many thanks for this opportunity to demonstrate my >personal position. In this posting from you, as in others you have >written, I see nothing of value that will further mine nor anyone >else's understanding of UFO's. The points you raise seem only red >herrings and not constructive criticism. If not for this opportunity >to show a more time saving way to move past this flak, I would not >have consumed a second in responding to you... Others, of course, >may feel different and value some parry and thrust with you. I >don't... Suit yourself, Ted. You may have been able to chip away at my "impregnable positions" if you'd bothered to reply to my specific points. In passing, and apparently in fond farewell: You complain that I've offered "nothing of value that will further mine nor anyone else's understanding of UFO's"(sic). I don't suppose you've considered what kind of contribution your post made to this List -- other than professing that you just don't like me or my "impregnable positions." Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 11:04:51 cst Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:59:37 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' >Date: 19 Aug 97 09:36:21 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward man >>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:46:35 -0700 >>From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >>To: Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: The Christian Coalition and good will toward man >This crap is scary! >BTW, you all should know that any TV station which broadcasts any >program advocating violence against any group is in violation of >FCC regulations and subject to having its charter revoked. If any >station in your area carries The 700 Club, I suggest you make a call >to the station manager and point this out. >It wouldn't hurt to also write a letter of protest to the FCC. >Advocating murder has no place on TV. >Robertson wants to be the next Hitler, and don't think "it can't >happen here." It could. Right on, Bob! Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Re: Rebecca's Rant - Journals From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:22:02 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:50:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca's Rant - Journals >From: meccam@erols.com >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 07:49:26 -0500 >Fwd Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:46:57 -0400 >Subject: Re: Rebecca's Rant - Journals > Got an idea -(applause)- why not set up a debate feature on the major > feature you're addressing each month? for example, Corso's book. Get > one writer who takes the pro side, another the con side, and present > both sides of the issue. Then you get to take the "middle ground" and > everyone is happy. Besides, this format makes for very interesting > reading and exercises the mind - worked well for PC MAgazine for years. > If you select the authors with reasonable care, it would spice up the > magazine and appease your polarized factions in one fell swoop. I think this is an excellent idea Melanie. However, I don't know if it would work every month or not. Dennis can correct me if I'm wrong, but I really don't think that the volume of material he receives for print is that great. Heck, I like to write and I have never submitted anything to the MUFON Journal. In my case, it's more because my style (sarcastic) doesn't suit the Journal, but I suspect that many people don't submit stuff because they don't have time to be writing stuff for free. That's just my opinion though. I happen to like the MUFON Journal. I think Dennis and Walt do a great job of getting it out every month. As someone who has worked with a simple newsletter, I can only imagine how difficult it is to come up with new material every month. That being said, I don't always agree with everything in the Journal, but I don't think I have to. The Journal and its staff doesn't cater to each member but to the membership. The Journal doesn't necessarily speak for MUFON but of MUFON. It represents a collection of ideas representative to the field. Living in Texas has its advantages, one of them is that I have received my August issue already and I am alarmed at what might be happening to the Journal. According to the Director's Message: "At the annual State/Provincial Director's meeting in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on July 11, 1997, a number of concerns were expressed about the contents of the MUFON UFO Journal that were taken to the Board of Director's meeting on July 13th. The Kent Jeffrey article infuriated the membership in general, since it was too long, full of apparent errors in reasoning, and debunking in nature. Members want to hear about UFO sighting reports, not arguments between writers. It was proposed that a survey of Journaal readers be conducted as part of giving the Journal a face lift. "For the second year the number of subscribers/members decreased, which definitely demands an immediate evaluation. The Board of directors heard the serious concerns of the State Directors loud and clear and has taken some positive steps to improve the contents of the Journal. The Board authorized a sub-committee John Schuessler (chairman), Walter Andrus, Dr. Robert M. Wood, and Dennis Stacy to define and implement changes to the Journal that would bring it more in line with the wishes of the membership. This could include seeking a new editor. A survey form for readers will be developed and included with a future issue of the Journal. "Twenty-eight years ago the MUFON UFO Journal was the voice of ufology, but with all of the added competition, both printed and the electronic media, it no longer holds that distinguished position. Full color UFO magazines with over one-half advertising were shown as examples of the competition. The Board of Dirctors fully comprehend the desires of the membership and will start making evolutionary changes, not revolutionary, to improve the Journal." While the voice of the membership is one that should be listened to, I would hope that we don't set a precedent of trying to cater to each and every whim. So, a lot of the members didn't like the Kent Jeffrey article, but many members did like it. Do we make changes based upon reaction to one article. While I doubt that was the intent, that is the way this message comes across. Don't let the MUFON Journal become one-sided. Let it continue to be an expression of ideas -- we don't just have one voice/one mind. There are many sides to an issue. If you don't like the content of the Journal, submit something you would like to see printed! While the editor makes the choices of what goes into the Journal, one has to wonder, just how much material submitted is actually fit to print. No group or organization is EVER going to please everyone. I know this from personal experience. I was closely involved in an organization (not UFO related) here in Houston which had over 1000 members. We never heard what a great job we were doing, we only heard about the stuff people didn't like. And it was always the same 10 or 20 people who had the complaints. And when you asked those same 10 or 20 people to help, they didn't have time or didn't want to get involved. I don't know if this is what is happening with MUFON but based on my experience, I'll bet it is. So there you have it, another rant from Rebecca. And Melanie, this is not necessarily directed at you <g>. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:56:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' In a message dated 97-08-19 12:53:50 EDT, you write: > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 18:14:37 -0400 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Regarding... > >From: KRandle993@aol.com > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:45:05 -0400 (EDT) > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Dr Marcel's I-beam with 'Hieroglyphics' > Kevin Randle wrote: > >>The photographs which were taken are important evidence. As we know, > >>Major Marcel claimed that the photographs showing himself holding > >>the debris were not staged; that was part of the "flying saucer" > >>wreckage. > >NO, NO, NO. Bill Moore claimed that Marcel had said that, but the > >evidence is that Moore fabricated those quotes. > So, there is apparently a reason for doubting Marcel's reported > comments. When a tape doesn't exist, there may be reason to doubt comments which don't agree with other comments made by the same person on multiple other occasions. When comments agree between various interviews, particularly when they can be documented on tape, then we can be reasonably sure that this is what the person said or meant. As we all know, Bill Moore's handling of evidence has repeatedly been called into question. A number of skeptics have accused him of being involved in forging the MJ-12 papers, the Twining/Cutler memo, and very recently (by no less than Robert Todd), altering the Schulgen memo. Jaime Shandera's close association with Moore have also cast doubt on whether Shandera can be fully trusted. Shandera had Gen. Dubose allegedly saying things when interviewed which flatly contradicted documented statements by Dubose elsewhere. Shandera also can't produce a tape to prove that Dubose actually said these things. So there is reason to question whether Marcel was accurately quoted by Moore on the particular point under discussion. > >There are three different version of the interview floating around, > >all of them traceable back to Moore. > >In 1980 when Johnny Mann of New Orleans TV station WWL interviewed > >Marcel, he showed those pictures to Marcel who told him that they > >didn't show the real debris. There is no credible evidence that > >Marcel ever said that if he was in the picture it was the real > >debris. > For reference, this is the verbatim story attributed to Major Marcel > in "The Roswell Incident": > "Just after we got to Carswell, Fort Worth, we were told to bring some > of this stuff up to the general's office - that he wanted to take a > look at it. We did this and spread it out on the floor on some brown > paper. > What we had was only a very small portion of the debris - there was > a whole lot more. There was half a B-29-ful outside. General Ramey > allowed some members of the press to take a picture of this stuff. > They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the > less-interesting metallic debris. The press was allowed to photograph > this, but were not allowed far enough into the room to touch it. The > stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we had found. > It was not a staged photo. Later, they cleared out our wreckage and > substituted some of their own Then they allowed more photos. Those > photos were taken while the actual wreckage was already on its way to > Wright Field. I was not in these. I believe these were taken with the > general and one of his aides". To which Marcel immediately added (according to Moore): "I've seen a lot of weather balloons, but I've never seen one like that before. And I don't think they ever did either." And just before this Marcel was also quoted as saying: "That next afternoon we loaded everything into a B-29 on orders from Col. Blanchard and flew it all to Fort Worth. I was scheduled to fly it all the way to Wright Field in Ohio, but when we got to Carswell at Fort Worth, the general [Ramey] nixed it. He took control at this point, told the press it was all a weather balloon, and ordered me not to talk to the press under any circumstances." Further on, Marcel was quoted: "It was Gen. Ramey who put up the cover story about the balloon just to get the press off our backs. The press was told it was just a balloon and tha the flight to Wright-Patterson was cancelled; but all that really happened was that I was removed from the flight and someone else took it up to W-P. I wasn't even allowed to talk to the press except to say what the general had told me to say. They all wanted to ask me questions, and I couldn't tell them anything." If you take this all at face value, it was pretty clear that Marcel was indicating that the weather balloon was a cover story and that statements attributed to him in the press were probably given out by him under Ramey's orders. He was completely backed by Gen. Dubose (in documented statements), who also said the weather balloon was a cover story, the debris was swapped, and everybody was acting under Ramey's orders. > Is it agreed that all the photographs show the same debris and that > no switch could therefore have taken place? All seven known photos _in the public domain_ show the same debris. But this doesn't mean that a switch didn't take place. We have Dubose (whom Marcel referred to as Ramey's aide) in recorded interviews and his affidavit verifying that this happened. There is also circumstantial evidence to that effect, some of it noted below. > If that's the case, then there is presumably no debate that either, > all of the photographs show some of the debris Marcel recovered, or > all of them show substituted, bogus debris. The contention is that all of them show substituted, bogus debris. The real debris samples brought by Marcel for Ramey's inspection were removed from his office before the various press photos were taken. There is the possibility that Marcel had his photo taken with some of the real debris by a military photographer before a press photographer came in. Perhaps that's what Marcel remembered, but got the civilian and military photographers confused. To this day, we still don't know for sure who took the TWO known photos of Marcel or how many photos of Marcel may have been taken. Gen. Dubose remembered Ramey's PIO, Major Cashon, taking Marcel's photo, but maybe that was an earlier photo. C. Bond Johnson initially remembered taking only the four photos of Ramey and Dubose and not seeing Marcel. Now he thinks he probably took the two known photos of Marcel as well. All six photos (2 of Marcel, 2 of Ramey, 2 of Ramey + Dubose) I believe are in the Fort Worth Star Telegram photo archives, suggesting to me that Johnson probably did take all six. Another factor that makes me think this is that the debris seems to be in the same relative position in all photos and seems to have been taken with the same camera (subjective impression). The other known photo is of Irving Newton, the weather officer, and the debris has obviously been shuffled around since when the other six photos were taken. This was taken by a different photographer than Johnson, and the type camera seems to be different as well. Johnson suspects it was Ramey's PIO (Major Cashon), and the photo was later distributed to the press. This might also account for Newton's memory of speaking with a "major," whom Dubose said was actually Major Cashon, not Major Marcel. But what exactly happened is muddled. If you believe Frank Kaufmann, there was a lot of confusion in Ramey's office. In the confusion, one of Ramey's aides allegedly brought back in some of the real debris after they had already brought in the weather balloon. They had to hustle the real debris out again before bringing in the photographer. > Kevin, much is made of the claim that Brazel was forced to change his > story. What exactly did he change? According to his neighbors the Proctors, Brazel was describing debris that was very anomalous BEFORE he went to Roswell. Floyd Proctor said Brazel was unusually excited and talkative: "He described stuff as being very odd. He said whatever the junk was, it had designs on it that reminded him of Chinese and Japanese designs. It wasn't paper because he couldn't cut it with his knife, and the metal was different from anything he had ever seen...." Loretta Proctor later said Brazel also described the infamous foil which would return to its original shape without creasing after being wadded up. She claimed Brazel said that none of the material could be cut with his knife or burned. And she also said Brazel brought a small piece of wood-like material which they couldn't burn and was exceptionally hard. They were unable to mark or cut it with a knife. Brazel also mentioned finding rubber strips in his press conference which he said probably came from the balloon that held it all up, but never mentioned anything like this to anybody else. The kicker came at the end when Brazel said he found two other weather balloons on his property and this didn't resemble either of them. That's an obvious contradiction right within his own press conference. How could the rubber strips he supposedly found and described earlier on not resemble those from other weather balloons? In fact, nobody on the debris field or who handled the debris mentioned anything like rubber weather balloons or the powerful smell later associated with the relatively INTACT SINGLE weather balloon in Ramey's office. Brazel also said the rubber strips were scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter. That's also incongruous with the single weather balloon in the photos. (It was described as a solitary balloon by Ramey to the press, and also in the FBI telegram). Also these neoprene rubber balloons disintegrated into flakes in the hot desert sun within weeks, according to C.B. Moore's testimony and a photo shown in the Air Force Report comparing such darkened flaked material to a pristine weather balloon. That's likewise inconsistent with Brazel's description of rubber strips and the balloon pictured in Ramey's office. Radio reporter Frank Joyce also claimed Brazel changed his story told to him in private and stated that the military had forced him to change his story. Joyce, unfortunately, has never been very specific about what Brazel told him originally. He has said, however, that Brazel's story was originally much more fantastic than what was told at the press conference. Brazel also allegedly told him the debris was scattered over a larger area, and that he found the debris with the Proctor's son, not his own son. He didn't tell the military about the Proctor boy in order to protect him. > We know he reportedly later said the debris was recovered on June > 14th, rather than the "some days before" generalisation reported > elsewhere, but I can't see what difference that made at the time. Marcel and Bill Brazel both remembered Mac Brazel telling them he had heard an explosion during an electrical storm several days earlier and then went out and found the debris. The original Roswell base press release in fact stated that the rancher found the debris "sometime last week," in accordance with Brazel Jr.'s and Marcel's independent memories of it. But several hours after the press release, Brazel was saying he had found the debris 3 weeks earlier, on June 14. That was obviously a change of story. The next day, some sort of counterintelligence group staged a phony Mogul launch at Alamogordo for the benefit of the local press, and also used the June 14 date. They claimed that Brazel had probably found the balloon they had launched the same day. This was a blatant lie, since the real Mogul team had left a week before, the last launch being on June 7. Obviously the false statement to the Alamogordo press was designed to mesh with Brazel's statement the evening before. Now why they would change Brazel's discovery date we can only speculate, but it may have been designed to deflect from when the event really happened and also bolster the alleged balloon origins. > It was also later reported that, "when the debris was gathered up the > tinfoil, paper, tape and sticks made a bundle about three feet long". > Is that what's considered to be a major change in his story? The physical descriptions of the debris and the discovery date are major changes of story. Also many of the things described by Brazel are inconsistent with what would have been found with a large Mogul crash. What, e.g. happened to the two dozen other balloons from the alleged crashed Mogul balloon, or the hundreds of feet of balloon twine which should have been scattered around? In fact, the Roswell Daily Record noted that Brazel reported "no strings or wire were to be found." Where did that disappear to? (Even Lt. McAndrew noticed that and questioned C.B. Moore about it -- no satisfactory answer was forthcoming.) Further, Brazel stated all the material he gathered probably came to no more than 5 pounds, only about 10% of the actual weight of a fully configured Mogul. This description by Brazel is also inconsistent in some respects from what was shown in Ramey's office (such as the rubber strips vs. intact balloon). Note that Brazel mentioned a bundle only 3 feet long, meaning the longest stick would have been only 3 feet as well. Marcel also recalled the longest stick or beam being only 3 feet. And Robert Porter who accompanied Marcel to Fort Worth, likewise said the largest wrapped package he handled was triangular and only 2-1/2 to 3 feet on a side. So none of the sticks in the Fort Worth photos should have exceeded three feet in length. But one stick clearly did. This stick is labeled "E" in the Air Force report. The stick lengths were measured by a CIA photoanalysis lab. A schematic of the working photo was made, and stick "E" has very clearly been cropped. The report then said it was only 3 feet long. But if you carefully analyze the photos (the stripes on Ramey's rug make a good ruler), the stick is really around 4 feet long, give or take 2 or 3 inches. It looks to me like somebody noticed the discrepancy between Porter's testimony and Brazel's press story (none of Marcel's descriptions were reported at all), and then altered the photo evidence to make it fit. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Crop Circle Connector #39 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 03:42:36 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:59:11 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Connector #39 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #39 Members = 2119 What's New on the Crop Circle Connector at:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html Thursday 21st August 1997 ******************************************************** THE STRANGE ATTRACTOR A new formation at Hackpen Hill, Wiltshire. The Fractalmakers continue to create on the last field of England ********************************************************* Formation at Fosbury Fort Nr Vernham Dean, Wiltshire This formation incorporates two Aerial shots, a diagram and Report from Peter Sorenson. One of the most picturesque locations in south Wiltshire, with a very nice design, below this ancient Hill Fort. ********************************************************* East Field Formation THE FRIGHTFUL FLOWER! New Diagram and images, with a small report from Peter Sorensen. ********************************************************* New formation at Upham, Near Bishop Waltham in Hampshire A throwback to the days of the Quintuplets, with an unusual gap seeking section on the outer ring! New diagram and report included ********************************************************* Lane End formation in Hampshire (See Crop Circles 1997 list) New diagram included, with Peter's report! ******************************************************** Morestead formation near Winchester (See Crop Circles 1997 list) New Diagram included, with Peter's Report, and reaction from the Crop Circle Connector ******************************************************* Liddington Castle formations of 1997 Please see the 1997 report listings for the latest updates we have incorporated new Aerial photographs to these formations which include the Necklace, Scroll, and the Single Circle. See the date at side of each individual report on the listing for the latest update. photographs and diagrams. ************************************************************ 1/2 Etchilhampton formations, Nr Devizes, Wiltshire We have updated certain individual reports on these formations which includes the Grid, and Petal design. They now have new aerial images, with diagrams to add to the original report. ************************************************************ Whichchurch, Nr Andover, Hampshire. New formation added to the 1997 listing, with aerial photograph and a reaction from the Crop Circle Connector ************************************************************ All the best Stuart & Mark * The Koch Fractal, Silbury Hill, 1997 :/\: .-- --. . :\ /: . *__/\__/ \__/\__* :\ /: ./__ __\. Mark Fussell: ':\ /:' mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk .'__/ \__'. \ / Subscribe: :/_ __ __ _\: news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles * :\/: \ / :\/: * . :/ \: . The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: .-- --. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html :\/: *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Re: Remaking Ufology From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:12:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:05:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Remaking Ufology Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared wrote: > From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:50:04 +1000 > Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:31:57 -0400 > Subject: Remaking Ufology > Greetings from Australia, > Recently Rebecca posed some questions that should be asked by everyone > interested in UFOs. There was also some discussion of ways to improve > UFO research by applying a scientific structure to it. I would like to > see > this thread continue as it seems to me to be more important than any > other > discussion currently on this list. > There are, I believe, 3 main issues to be dealt with: > 1) Define Ufology. > At the heart it should obviously mean the examination of Unidentified > Flying Objects, yet it has come to be associated with 'alien > visitors', > 'time travel', 'ancient societies', even unnatural creatures (chupa)! > Disciplined research is hardly possible while ever more aspects are > added to the field. The first task must be to distill the very essence > of UFO. > IMO the more severe the distillation the better, it makes construction > of a foundation easier and ensures that hypotheses and theories built > on that > foundation are more stable. Well stated. I came to Ufology intersted in UFO's however I found that much of the research in this field had become lost in a sea of abstract paranormal data. A lot of this occurrs because many researchers feel there might be relationhips between UFO's and other phenomenon. Within the last couple of decades Ufology has become more compartmentalized which is probably a good thing. Some scientists and researchers are doing aerial phenomena research only, others strictly perform abduction research, still others spend all their time with the FOIA and seeking out government witnesses etc. It's very true that with the amount of data amassed on the overall Ufological picture, serious researchers are more likely to pick one or two specific components of the field to specialize in. > Some time ago I attempted a statistical analysis of UFO reports around > Australia. I set very tough criteria; multiple independent witnesses, > only daylight sightings etc. The first problem I faced was dealing > with many > UFO organizations. The failure of this project can be directly > attributed to > the lack of cooperation from most organisations. These groups believed > that they 'owned' the reports they had, simply because the UFO report > was > made to them. There needs to be complete openess amongst UFO groups, > with a > united purpose this could happen, but the current arrangement, > primarily > driven by faith or potential profit from publication is untenable. > Until > UFOlogy is clearly defined this situation will continue. > 2)Data collection. > For at least 50 years people and groups have been collecting witness > testimony, but exactly what has that brought us? It's my assertion > that > further collection of witness reports will add no value at all! > In a scientific sense, if you want to measure the brightness of a > light, > you don't write down how bright you thought it was, you measure the > brightness with a piece of equipment that can be calibrated or checked > against a calibrated source. You then have some data that means the > same > thing to anyone who sees it. An urgent priority should be to invent > test > equipment that can be deployed to UFO groups around the world at > reasonable cost. Such equipment combined with video would be powerful > data > collecting tools. This would redefine what it means to belong to a UFO > group, > instead of staying home and watching the X-files or speaking to > someone who saw > a light in the sky, members would be out attempting to collect data > first-hand. > 3)Form hypotheses and hopefully test them. > Using the data collected (and only the data), try to determine new > facts > about UFOs that can be tested and verified. This sort of process leads > to better test equipment that in turn leads to better data that leads > to > better hypotheses and theories etc etc. The hypotheses and theories > would be published in a peer-reviewed journal where they could be open > to > international debate, hopefully without the personality attacks that > help make UFOlogy look like a kindergarten. I've been looking at all of the infighting in this field sometime now and trying to figure out why it occurs and how to get around it. I find that most of the internal conflict arises from differences interpretations of data, cases, witnesses, etc. and reactions to the claims of other s in the field. Let's take this list for example. An unbelievable amount of bandwidth has been expended on various differences concerning details, witnesses testimony, and evidence of the Roswell incident. In the time that I've been part of the list no one has taken a different side, no one has found any data to reverse their stance, not one person's opinion has changed one iota ever, ever, ever because everyone is set in their conlcusions. Instead of running to scientific or political authorities about the cases that ufologists widely agree on such as Mexico City the unproductive conflict seems to be more the status quo. Not long ago Friedman and Randle were discussing their views on the Roswell case and their years of opposition on various details witnesses etc. and one of them said "Well we both agree that a UFO crashed and it was concealed by the Army Air Force and has been ever since and that's a rather monumental thing to agree on." So if we apply this type of thinking to the cases that have produced far more compelling evidence for the existance of UFO's than Roswell we will have something that can be introduced in good confidence to the media and society and take refuge in knowing that it is solid. I've compiled a small list of theories and and characteristics of Ufology wherein I believe there is WIDESPREAD AGREEMENT among researchers. In order to test my theory I thought I post them here with the hopes that other members of the list that object or refute these theories and conclusions might be tempted to respond. This data is extrememly general. Very nonspecific THEORIES OF UFO ORIGIN The following theories of UFO origin appear to be some of the most agreed upon in UFO research. It is possible that the origin of UFO's may be found in one, all, or a combination of the following theories. Extra-Terestrial Hypothesis. Theory that suggests that UFO's originate on extrasolar planets in our galaxy or our universe and use an unknown technology to travel to our planet. Extra-Dimensional Hypothesis. Theory that suggests that UFO's orginate in another dimension, parallel universe, or plane of existance not well understood by human science and use an unknown technology to travel to our dimension. Extra-Temporal Hypothesis. Theory that suggests that UFO's are more directly associated with earth but originate in another time and use an unknown technology to travel to our time. CHARACTERISTICS OF UFO's Some UFO's appear to be structured craft yet sustain flight characteristics that violate certain physical laws and would suggest scientifically that they have no mass. Some UFO's appear to be associated with radiation. Some UFO's appear to emit extreme luminosity. Some UFO's appear to be metallic. Some UFO's appear to cause disruption or blackout of electrical systems in cars, planes, or houses when in close proximity. Some UFO's appear to travel through bodies of water as well as airspace. Some UFO's appear to be attracted to military or other sensitive installations. The UFO Phenomenon appears to be worldwide CONTRASTS OF DIFFERENT UFO's Some UFO's appear to be silent while others are audible. Some UFO's appear to show up on radar while others do not. I certainly hope that widespread agreement among ufologists of the various theories and charactieristics of the phenomenon is much, much longer than this list. If we could develop such a list where most if not all researchers conceded the items contained were facts we would have some achieved something substantial that could be reverred by all those doing the research. A sort of DSM III of ufology. Does anyone know of anything like this in existance now? Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Alfred's Odd Ode #170 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 08:59:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:07:58 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #170 Apology to MW #170 (For August 21, 1997) Did you know that you were actually the center of a multiverse? That all creation moved its mass 'round you? This is not a charming metaphor to illustrate a point! This is truth as culture knows it. There is no doubt that it's true. "The center of the universe"! Bunkies frown, and smirk, and sneer. "What you offer is the selfish you despise"! And taken to their limit, then, they know exactly right. But then you _choose_ that selfish roadway I decry. Everything in culture's set to come down straight on YOU -- As it knows that you _alone_ can heat the water! It binds together millions of these universal centers To succor an elite, in turn, . . . still treats you like a squatter! It all comes down to YOU, and the payment of YOUR taxes. It's down to YOU, and what YOU leave behind. What is YOUR contribution -- in the positive or the negative? But minus/plus for who and what or why! Every ad that's heard or seen is leveled at your bean. And they're crafted with your singleness in mind. You're extorted individually but then ground culture's mill -- Reminded on good teamwork until selfless, tired, and blind=85 You forget that you're the center of this thing that's seen and heard. And you shift that center over to controllers. "It's God's will you be accursed into an evil world toil --" You get behind their Jesus, or Republican extollers. You turn your back on those who look succinctly over shoulder. The ones who tally ethics, and decide. The one's that have the history all writ down the way it _was_ . . . The watchful ones we scare so much, they HIDE. Think about the lynch mob, and the mob rule there displayed -- Where the single man or woman would not play. But together they dilute the fear that ethics makes so plain, And they spill the blood you know's been spilled today! You are the center of your universe cause it's you that pays the freight. You're the one on site who takes it in the gut. Through the nose you're always paying 'cause it benefits a few -- And if asking on the truth than you're a ding dong or a nut. You're the center of a universe with many different centers. What you do counts BIG -- here's reasons why. What you have been doing, were it lost there'd be undoing. Without YOUR contribution this whole culture couldn't fly! Lehmberg@snowhill.com A team is only as strong as the individuals that make it up. That makes the individual key. The most successful countries have the most respect for individuals. Discounting the individual makes teams and countries fail. Consider North Korea, and the Soviet Union. Look around you -- you ARE at the center of the universe. What's between your eyeballs and the center of your head -- YOU! My center hails your center. AHOY! -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for knowing he was the center of his universe. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Declassified Government Documents From: "Geoffrey Nimmo" <nextwave@one.net> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:57:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:41:18 -0400 Subject: Declassified Government Documents -------------------------------------------------------------- Primary Source Media Opens Pioneering Web Window on Declassified Government Documents -------------------------------------------------------------- _____________________________________________________________________ Primary Source Media has released the Index and Abstracts to its Declassified Documents Reference System (DDRS) online at: http://www.declass.psmedia.com This remarkable collection includes once-secret World War II and Cold War era government records declassified by specific request under the mandatory review provisions of the Freedom of Infor- mation Act. _____________________________________________________________________ /gsn
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 34 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:54:06 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 34 --------------------- UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 34 August 21, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor UFO SPOTTED OVER KIRKCALDY, SCOTLAND On Saturday, August 16, 1997, at approximately 12:45 a.m., a Scotsman and his girlfriend were letting their dogs into the garden at the rear of their home in Kirkcaldy, a city on the north shore of the Firth of Forth, north of Scotland's capital, Edinburgh. "Just as my partner looked up at the sky to our left over our shoulders," he reported, "we spotted what appeared to be just another star in the sky, until it began to move. We live in a three-storey block of flats, and we could see this starlike object move away from rooftops of the flats towards the south and probably over the River Forth somewhere." "It seemed to cut through the sky with great ease, almost like it was gliding, but was actually going exceptionally fast. It must have been to cover the ground it covered in such a short time. It travelled three quarters of the sky in approximately 30 seconds, when it came to a sudden halt and just remained there--stationary." "At this point, I decided to go for more people to witness what we were experiencing. On my return with three other witnesses, I discovered that my partner had gone to our next-door neighbour. He and his teenage son came to investigate." Soon a group of seven people were witnessing the spectacle. "What appeared to be at first a shooting star, projecting rapidly towards the stationary object in a vertical/diagonal fashion from left to right, at great speed. Then the stationary object took off from a standstill, in an opposite direction from the incoming threat, and just seemed to disappear." "We saw the same phenomenon at least five times more. Only they were not all heading south. Some were heading northeast, and another passed over our heads towards the west. All looked identical." Only the "shooting star" objects moved in a straight line, he added. "This whole experience lasted 45 minutes (until 1:30 a.m. on Sunday, August 17), and was witnessed by nine people in total, although some members came in a little later. But none of can even begin to comprehend what we saw, but we know we did see it." (Many thanks to John Hayes for forwarding this news story.) SAUCER RAISES A BIG STIR IN THE SOLOMON ISLANDS A domed saucer, described as "a classic UFO," has been sighted "every two or three nights" since August 7, 1997 in the Solomon Islands of the South Pacific. The saucer has made repeated appearances over Visale, a town on the northern tip of Guadalcanal Island, and over Ironbottom Sound, just north of town. Both sites, oddly enough, figured prominently in the World War II battles on Guadalcanal 55 years ago. According to Ross Dowe of Australia's National 24-Hour Hotline, who first received the report, two men, one of them a doctor, said several islanders had been reported missing. Also, islanders who aimed flashlights or spotlights at the saucer as it passed overhead were struck by a sudden burst of heat. Several people "have received third-degree-burns" as a result. Witnesses describe the saucer as four meters (13 feet) in diameter "and moves very fast. It has also been seen to enter a waterfall and disappear, and to travel underwater." (Many thanks to Mike Lindemann for this report. See CNI News, volume 3, number 12, part 3 for August 16, 1997.) UFO SIGHTED OVER THE LOWER EAST SIDE On Tuesday, August 12, 1997, Linda Cortile and her neighbor were at their apartment house on Manhattan's Lower East Side when they heard "the sounds of helicopters." Linda explained, "I was locked in my apartment and couldn't get out. I called management, and they opened the door for me. I had to wait 24 hours before a locksmith came. So I stayed in my unlocked apartment alone. I telephoned a neighbor, and she kept me company until my family came home." "We looked out of the living room window because we heard the sounds of helicopters. They were flying low. We thought that perhaps someone was going to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge again." (Editor's Note: Linda's neighborhood is on the southeast side of New York City's Manhattan Island borough, south of Houston Street.) "That's when we saw those reddish-colored objects flying over the East River. After watching them for 20 seconds, they disappeared, but the helicopters continued on. I don't know what the heck they were, but they scared the living poop out of us...I hope they weren't the UFOs we in the UFO community always talk about." (Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp for forwarding this story.) JPL LOSES CONTACT WITH PATHFINDER--CAUSE UNKNOWN On Saturday night, August 16, 1997, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California began its customary four-hour data download to the Pathfinder explorer craft on Mars. Signals are beamed to the Pathfinder and its mobile robot explorer vehicle, Sojourner, via the large-dish antennae of the Deep Space Network. Suddenly, "for no known cause," communication between JPL and Pathfinder was "cut off for three minutes." At the time, JPL was broadcasting instructions to Sojourner to examine two large rocks, the "Shark" and "Flattop," in an area near the landing site known as "the Rock Garden." (See the Los Angeles Times for August 17, 1997. Many thanks to Rev. Billy Dee for forwarding this story.) (Editor's Comment: First the controversial Pathfinder photo #81977, then the missing 28 photos, and now this. Something strange is going on up there at Ares Vallis, that's for sure!) PORTUGUESE UFO IDENTIFIED On May 23, 1997, a strange blue marigold-shaped UFO was seen in the skies over Mirandela, a town in the Tras-Os-Montes of northern Portugal. Some thought it was a genuine UFO; others called it a religious miracle. Now it appears that the Mirandela object was merely a laser-light show. According to Portuguese ufologist Joao Cardoso, "The lights people observed were generated by a laser-effects machine that was used to attract visitors to the 'RegiaoNorde' exposition which occurs in Mirandela every year." The "explanation" was reported recently on Portugal's SIC-TV network. "I became a little skeptical about that explanation until I saw the laser machine," Cardoso added, "The lenses were marigold-shaped. The people in Quintas (the village where the UFO was seen--J.T.) saw laser beams projected on the clouds." Cardoso's home in Lamego "is about 70 miles from Mirandela, and I noticed that the skies were overcast by low-altitude clouds that day." (Muito obrigado a Joao Cardoso por eso caso.) CROP CIRCLES APPEAR IN SASKATCHEWAN On August 7, 1997, three crop circles appeared in a wheat field on the Kawacatoose Indian Reserve in Panashi, near the town of Raymore, Saskatchewan (population 562). This was the first Canadian crop circle incident of 1997. Raymore is 53 kilometers (33 miles) north of Regina, the provincial capital. The formation at Panashi consisted of one large circle measuring 13 meters (40 feet) in diameter and two smaller satellite circles 1.3 meters (4 feet) in diameter. According to researcher Paul Anderson of Circles Phenomenon Research-Canada, they "looked like half of a Celtic cross design, with two circles missing." The discovery was reported on Thursday, August 14, by reporter Sarah McGrath of BBS-TV in Regina. Another crop circle at Panashi was reported on Monday, August 18. Both cases are being investigated by the local detachment of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP). Also investigating the Panashi circles is Daniel Clairmont, who last year worked on the crop-circle case in Rocanville, Saskatchewan. (See the newspapers the Saskatoon Star-Phoenix for August 16, 1997 and the Regina Leader-Post for August 18, 1997.) from the UFO Files... 1957: UFO STALKS BRAZILIAN AIRLINER Forty years ago, one of the strangest UFO incidents in Brazil's history took place, involving a DC-3 airliner belonging to Viacao Aerea Rio-Grandense (VARIG) airlines. On August 14, 1957, at 9 p.m., a VARIG C-47 (cargo version of the DC-3) took off from the city of Porto Alegre in Brazil's Rio Grande do Sul state, heading north towards the then-national capital, Rio de Janeiro. Flying the aircraft were Captain Jorge Araujo and First Officer Edgar Soares. Soon they were flying through a perfectly clear sky over the South Atlantic. Below, at 5,700 feet, was a thick overcast. Above them was an array of myriad stars, highlighted by the Southern Cross. The C-47's airspeed was 160 miles per hour. Suddenly, "they spotted some sort of brilliant object to the left and slightly behind and below them. Seconds later, it had streaked out ahead of them and off to their right--a maneuver that required fantastic speed..." "The object then swept in toward the plane." "In their witness report, both pilots and the other three crew members described it as a disc-shaped thing with a low shiny dome on top." "As the UFO drew close to the plane, the lights on the aircraft dimmed almost to extinction, the engines sputtered and missed badly, and the radio reception became nil. A few seconds later--anxious seconds for that crew, as they later admitted--the UFO plunged downward into the clouds, and the electrical systems on the plane returned to normal." (See FLYING SAUCERS--SERIOUS BUSINESS by Frank Edwards, Bantam Books, N.Y., October 1966, page 31.) FUN UFO WEBSITES Don't miss our parent site, UFOINFO. It can easily be accessed at this URL: http://www. digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be found at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/ roundup/ NOTE TO ROUNDUP READERS: With this issue, the newsletter goes on hiatus for three weeks. Publication of UFO ROUNDUP will resume with Volume 2, Number 35 on Sunday, September 13, 1997. All reader subscriptions will be carried over automatically. In the meantime, your editor is off to his favorite vacation spot, also known as Ginonwabiko-zibi. With a side trip planned to a location famous in UFO history. Watch for the feature story in December. Until next time, keep watching the skies! Best of luck to all our readers who are starting a new school year. It's okay to read UFO ROUNDUP on the computer. Just don't do it in class, and make sure your homework is done before you hop online. Here's wishing you all straight A's on your report card from "the paper that goes home-- UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Re: On natural relationships and UFOs From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:13:03 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:56:36 -0400 Subject: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs >Date: 19 Aug 97 09:36:25 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs >>From: "Chris Rutkowski" <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:28:52 CST >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs >Chris, >>Now here's an interesting conundrum. Any debunker worth his >>or her salt knows that "Moon Madness" is a complete fiction and that >>there is no scientific evidence to suggest that the Moon has any real >>effect on us. Yet, if it could be shown that there was a correlation >>between Moon phase and the number of UFO reports, it might help to >>explain why people report UFOs if we assumed some sort of effect. >I suggest that no correlation was found because the "researchers" >who did these studies "knew" beforehand that there could be none, and >so their research proved this. >My information is anecdotal from psychologists, and suggests that all >who work with the seriously disturbed know that there is a correlation, >but don't talk about it much since it is considered quackery. >Bob While I am not involved in the mental health area, nor do I suffer from a mental illness,I can comment on this because my ex-wife was and still is a community mental health nurse in a large country town. Her duties included attending to mentally ill people in crisis. These people were well enough not to be hospitalised. Invariably her night-time call outs increased dramatically if there was a full moon and dropped to almost nothing during moonless periods. Stuart Search for other documents from or mentioning: livesey | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 Alfred's Odd Ode #171 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:13:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:57:54 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #171 Apology to MW #171 (For August 22, 1997) This is a lonely little station that dares to speak to you. To step out on the world stage with ethos, heart, and clue. To break from comfy cover, and to play some real blues. To risk the wrath of mammon for a simple Alien View. I know the message could be pleasant so the horror fades from sight. You'd have the warm and fuzzies in a life style clean and bright. You'd have an even break for those who fight a straight up fight. You'd have warmth plus satisfaction and absent terror in the night. My program plays the classics, and the music's complication. Have no fear, it's always here -- you feel a strange elation. The blues are played to curve the spine for soul initiation, And open minded is your grace; you can read it at this station. As you read you walk a path alone that covers all the ground. You walk in scented violence that happens all around. You cannot hear the crickets who will only make a sound When the music isn't playing with leaping dancers all abound. Check out the dancers costume as it flashes truthful color. The spirit is effusive to make the shading even fuller. The straightened back gives breath back so the leap is even taller; Amazing all the moves are made on throwing off one's collar! The signal comes from mountains that are washed so green in rain. The amplitude is highest when you turn up on the gain. The frequency's a sweetness that can freshen up your brain That's pleasure that you're feeling, though you're taught to call it pain. My message is hard edged enough -- you cannot call it quaint. It doesn't take the word of what the landed calls a saint. It doesn't tremble for the mighty, or get all weak and faint. It's the color of creation; its been stripped of all the paint. My center's hailing yours completely guileless, a little worried. The message has to get out quick; together we must hurry. Only in the shadows can real monsters dart and scurry. And light will have them slinking back to darkness in a flurry. This is my lonely program that electrics pump world wide. It's an honest leap of faith I contemplate, and then confide. It's heart felt appreciation that we help our earth abide When we reach across our differences that yawn so deep in pride. So I'm pumping up the volume, indifference just be damned. I'm breaking out of boxes where our spirits have been crammed. Unaffected by your silence, ever mindful of the man. I await your kind acceptance -- but, I am armored for your slam. Lehmberg@snowhill.com And where do I get off? And the answer to that is where I can! -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for getting off where he would. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 24 BWW Media Alert 970822 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:46:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:58:44 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970822 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin's Home Page< /A> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html"> </A>TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (Permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes, provided attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before e-mailing them something. If you do forward it to someone, please be sure that it is clear you are forwarding it) August 22, 1997 Next week may be a bit weirder than most, since I'm going on vacation for a few days and will be off-line during that time. On to the listings! (Remember, times given here are generally Pacific) FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. DICK VAN DYKE was always one of my favorite shows, and Nickelodeon runs one of his UFO/alien eps ("Uhny Uftz") on Tue at 1:30 AM. The RUGRATS are back with Tommy dreaming of aliens in "Visitors from Outer Space": Wed. at 8:30 AM. I mentions this one when it runs because it lets me give you a great tongue twister...Plucky Duck gets abducted in the ep "A Quack in the Quarks" on TINY TOON ADVENTURES on Nick on Wed at 4:30 PM. In "Visit to a Hostile Planet" the Jupiter II makes it back to Earth, but through a time warp it's 1947 (the year of the "first" flying saucer sighting, the Roswell Incident, etc.). Not surprisingly, they are mistaken for aliens. This one's on the SCI-FI CHANNEL on Friday at 6:00 AM. The very popular (and if you are an adult, very annoying) KENAN AND KEL have an ep ("Mental Kel-epathy") where Kenan thinks Kel is psychic on Nick at 9:00 PM on Saturday. ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.COM/~ufomus/chat/ <A HREF="http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.CO M/~ufomus/chat/ ">Museum Chat</A> OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com">Omni M agazine</A> ) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. Peter Tompkins, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0060915870/bufosweirdworld A/">The Secret Life of Plants</A> , discusses his new book, <A HREF="http://w ww.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0062508474/bufosweirdworldA/">The Secret Life o f Nature</A> . <A HREF="http:/ /www.omnimag.com/t alk/"> </A><A HREF="http://www.omnima g.com/talk/">OMNI Prime Time</A> RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</A> Next week's guests not known (except for Michael Lindemann ...he'll be on at 6:00 PM Wednesday as I write this, but you can check their website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. Archives of earlier shows are also available, so you can hear my previous broadcasts through this site. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? --week of 8/18, precognitive rescue dream; ghost neighbor diagnosis illness PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com <A HREF="http://www.psifactor.com">P SI Factor</A> for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 8/18, THE FOG (a strange fog is causign "accidents" at a prison); HOUSE ON GARDEN STREET (haunting) --week of 8/25, SECOND SIGHT (transplants carry memories?); CHOCOLATE SOLDIER (cult leader) Saturday, August 23 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. 5:00 PM, Melanie Votow, is a hypnotherapist who does past live regressions. They will play tape of the host, Ken Dashow, exploring his past lives. 6:00 PM, Rosemary Ellen Guiley, who is an author of a bunch of books, discusses one particular title, <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/ob idos/ISBN=0816028826/bufosweirdworldA/">Atlas of the Mysterious in North Ameri ca</A> . Is it similar to NEARU? Somewhat, I suppose, but very different format. 6:30 PM, Ruffin Prevost, webmaster of the Parascope site; 7:00 PM, Dr. Harold Widdison, one of the authors of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exe c/obidos/ISBN=0446520543/bufosweirdworldA/">The Eternal Journey</A> , a near-death experiences book. I will eventually put up a section on NDEs on my website, but did you know there are more than 100 books on the topic? 7:30 PM, Dr. Dean Radin, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obido s/ISBN=0062515020/bufosweirdworldA/">The Conscious Universe : The Scientific T ruth of Psychic Phenomena</A> . If you want to hear more about him after tonight, he's also on Art Bell this week (see Sunday). Sunday, August 24 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com < A HREF="http://www.artbell.com">Art Bell</A> for stations and program info) Art interviews Dean Radin, authro of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obid os/ISBN=0062515020/bufosweirdworldA/">The Conscious Universe : The Scientific Truth of Psychic Phenomena</A> LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. Grail art. 10:59 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5068): Black Swan Haunting!; Klinger Encounter (apparently, alien abduction, not a trip to the MASH set); Spirits in the Garden!; UFOs in Korea! 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5068): Black Swan Haunting!; Klinger Encounter (apparently, alien abduction, not a trip to the MASH set); Spirits in the Garden!; UFOs in Korea! 5:00 PM, A&E, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOS? Michael Dorn narrates this documentary with the difficult to defend premise that UFO sightings have been down since the Cold War ended 7:00 PM, BEYOND BELIEF (some stories are made up for the show, some are based on real cases, you're supposed to guess...I think I'm not going to lists topics for this show, it's too confusing) 9:00 PM, A&E, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOS? Michael Dorn narrates this documentary with the difficult to defend premise that UFO sightings have been down since the Cold War ended 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5068): Black Swan Haunting!; Klinger Encounter (apparently, alien abduction, not a trip to the MASH set); Spirits in the Garden!; UFOs in Korea! Monday, August 25 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse <A HREF="http://www.rysher.com/strangeun iverse/">Strange Universe</A> for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. Grail art. 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#50): no details available Tuesday, August 26 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Haunted trailer: see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#51): no detailsavailable Wednesday, August 27 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#52): no details available Thursday, August 28 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#1): ARE UFOS REAL?, QU GONG HEALING; THE MAGIC BEHIND WITCHCRAFT 3:58 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5060): haunting; Stonehenge on the web; UFO abductees; 1947; Healing Harps; Israeli UFOs 9:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SECRETS OF ANCIENT WORLDS (evidence for Atlantis?) 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5060): haunting; Stonehenge on the web; UFO abductees; 1947; Healing Harps; Israeli UFOs Friday, August 29 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Hudson Valley UFOs (isn't that a song? Oh, no, that's HARPER VALLEY PTA...)(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SECRETS OF ANCIENT WORLDS (evidence for Atlantis?) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#2): Near-Death experiences; natural disasters; prophecies of Armageddon This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. _____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. ______________________________ <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A> I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 13:36:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:08:08 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' Oh my Gawd! HELLLLLLLLLLLLP! Pat Robertson? A Christian? Willing to put my alien influenced hide on the Cross and Cruisify mE? With whom shall he gamble for my cloak? YIKES! Has Pat Robertson joined Scientology? Evidently, and along with them, the Nazi's... Oh, Pat how thy faith in God hath forsaken thee! Cast thou not thyne own heart's irrationalism upon the waters of men's mind's lest ye be smitten by the grip of the cold hand of Satan from on high. (Oops! Too late!) The proverbial feline is now out of the container. Look, seriously now, does anyone here believe this idiot so called "Christian" twit from the hell of obscurity has NOT now shown just what kind of President he would be had he actually <GAG!> been elected? Pat Robertson is an Ass. Along with the likes of Jimmy Swaggart he can gather and say; "Let us bray to our God whom we have made." I hereby purpose that `We the UFOdemons form our own perfect Union and start our own 666 Club. Now take into consideration that this is 34 short of what a 700 Club would be so right off, Pat Robertson is 34 steps beyond ! ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Omega Communications' website From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 21:58:31 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:01:12 -0400 Subject: Omega Communications' website Omega Communications' website is now on line, thanks to webmaster Dan Brooks and a little help from our friends Larry and Jeff. Check it out at: <www.ufoexperience.com> Comments welcome. Would appreciate it if you'd pass the word along to your acquaintances interested in the UFO phenomenon.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Behind American Computer Co. From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 16:04:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:03:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computer Co. So what exactly is the story with American Computer? http://www.american-computer.com/ American Computer is a New Jersey based company. I spoke to an employee. A man by the name of John Schwartz that works in administration. He informed me that a man currently employed by AC used to work for Bell Labs in the 60's. The information on AC's web page about the transistor breakthrough possibly being the result of backengineering projects came from this AC employee whom Mr. Schwartz claims wishes to remain anonymous. Mr. Schwartz wanted to make it very clear that neither the anonymous employee making the claims nor anyone else in the company was aware of retired Colonel Philip Corso or any of the statements he made about Bell Labs at the time the company released the information on their website. In fact Mr. Shwartz was also unaware of the book and asked me how he might retrieve a copy. In response, I gave him the name of the publisher. Apparently they had first heard about Corso after their posting. They received several faxes from people making inquiries or wishing to add information. At least some of the contacts came from Phoenix. Schwartz said they had been contacted by the New York Times and he mentioned Ed Wang . (See info on UFC from Stig Agermose) Mr Schwartz confirmed the rumor that a break in had occurred at their offices a short time after the data was posted on their web site. He stated that a door had been completely ripped off it's hinges and that the surrounding motion sensors had been trashed. Mr Schwartz went on to say that after OSI had made an investigation of the break-in they specualted that it may have been a result of the data on the website. More information is pending Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 DISPATCH #65 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 22:02:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:05:51 -0400 Subject: DISPATCH #65 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #65 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 8/23/97 Quote of the Week "You have manipulated images of the president's public statements, taken them out of the context in which they were uttered, and adapted them to fit the plot of your film. By appropriating President Clinton's image and words in this manner, you have essentially given him a role in your film without his authorization.'' --White House counsel Charles Ruff in a letter to the makers of the film "Contact." (Ruff apparently is unaware that the same thing is done by the corporate "news" media to non-presidents every day.) -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: "Mom, Dad and the Demonic Entities" Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Trumpeter" makes a frightening prediction about the horror that is to come. Sadly, we don't know when it will come, so keep an eye on Mom and Dad if they're caught outside when the darkness falls. Enjoy! "The earth will soon be encompassed in absolute darkness for a period of three days. All caught outside of home or shelter will die. Board up your windows and lock your doors when this event occurs. Don't look outside. Admit no one into your home after the darkness falls, even what APPEARS to be friends or family members will be demonic entities trying to gain admittance into your shelters. There is more, but at his time I have given you enough to survive." [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names changed to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ New Friends in Online Places ParaScope is pleased to announce exciting new partnerships with two of the premiere spots in cyberspace for cutting-edge content: Imagine Zone and The Hub. You can now find ParaScope carried on both of these great sites. You'll find us featured every Monday in the Imagine Zone's "I-Files" area, featuring the best in paranormal, UFOs and true crime stories. (Check us out at http://www.imaginezone.com/) The Hub is the number one original content site on America Online, and we're thrilled to be featured in their line-up of killer content along with great sites like Urban Legends and Crime Scene, both of which ought to be of interest to ParaScope readers. (Check them out at keyword: hub on AOL or at http://www.thehub.com on the web.) -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Hot Talk on the Grassy Knoll You'll find regularly scheduled, hosted chat sessions every night (and most of every day) on our AOL site at the Grassy Knoll chat room. Lauded as one of the top chat rooms on AOL, the Grassy Knoll is the place to go to share your views live with others on everything from conspiracies to UFOs to the paranormal and beyond. Also, join us at our web site every Saturday night at 9pm ET for the latest gossip, chat, rumor, innuendo and fun. http://www.parascope.com/virtualplaces/virtualplaces.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Check out all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Conspiracy Newsline: Daily updates for cognitive dissidents. Idaho prosecutor's decision to file charges in Ruby Ridge case displeases all sides; new book blows the lid off the Oklahoma City bombing conspiracy; videotape shows violent prisoner abuse at private Texas prison; Tennessee appeals court halts King assassination probes; updates on Nike labor violations in Vietnam and Bangladesh; imprisoned Branch Davidians to seek sentence reductions. ------------------ Pat Robertson Recommends Stoning for UFO Enthusiasts The Bible says the Earth belongs to man, but the heavens belong to the Lord, and you UFO nuts better keep that straight! Otherwise, you'll be stoned to death in accordance with the book of Deuteronomy. That's what religious honcho and former Republican presidential candidate Pat Robertson suggested in a 700 Club news segment broadcast on July 8. In a rambling discourse, he stated that if aliens exist, they are simply demons trying to lead people away from Christ, which Robertson perceives to be a very serious threat. ParaScope will soon be taking orders for stoning-proof vests and granite-resistant BELIEVER helmets, but until then, you can get the details on Pat's rant in Nebula. ------------------ Castro and the Kennedy Assassination: New Documents, New Details In the early 1960s, the U.S. government put multiple hits on Cuban leader Fidel Castro. Did Castro return the favor? Some investigators of the Kennedy assassination have speculated that the bearded revolutionary was in some way involved in this most controversial of political murders. Now newly released documents fill in the story of how Castro reacted when he heard the news from Dallas. Dossier has investigated the new findings and how they fit in with what was previously known about Castro and Kennedy's death. If you've ever wondered how covert ops against Cuba may have been involved with JFK's killing, don't miss this Dossier special briefing. ------------------ CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media CSICOP (the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal), publisher of Skeptical Inquirer magazine, is planning a campaign to acquire stock in various media conglomerates "to provide leverage for its response to the television networks' lucrative commercial marketing of fringe science and pseudoscience." By obtaining shares of common stock in Time Warner and the four major TV networks, CSICOP will be able to "question the infatuation with the paranormal increasingly demonstrated in television programming" at shareholders' meetings. Enigma editor D. Trull has the details on CSICOP's skeptical initiative. ------------------ Prescription for Controversy: Reefer Madness in the '90s Sixty years ago, Congress outlawed marijuana in the midst of a firestorm of patently false, often racist propaganda fed by tabloid-journalism hysteria. The plant which was on the brink of becoming a multi-billion dollar cash crop instead became the target of a multi-billion dollar drug war that has imprisoned tens of thousands of otherwise innocent American civilians. But the tide began to turn in 1996, when voters passed medical marijuana ballot initiatives in Arizona and California. Ignoring the clearly expressed will of the people in those two states, the Fedgov has launched a series of retaliatory attacks. President Clinton and drug czar Barry McCaffrey promised that users of medicinal marijuana in Arizona and California would still face federal charges if caught. And various Congressional representatives have sponsored a host of certifiably insane anti-marijuana bills, including Rep. Newt Gingrich's proposal that anyone caught with two or more ounces of marijuana be executed. ParaScope presents a situation report on the current legislative landscape, including roundups of pending ballot measures, Congressional updates and related news. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, to subscribe, send: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 16:19:50 PDT Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:13:28 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' > Date: 19 Aug 97 09:36:21 EDT > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' toward man > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:46:35 -0700 > >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > >To: Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: The Christian Coalition and good will toward man > This crap is scary! > BTW, you all should know that any TV station which broadcasts any > program advocating violence against any group is in violation of > FCC regulations and subject to having its charter revoked. If any > station in your area carries The 700 Club, I suggest you make a call > to the station manager and point this out. > It wouldn't hurt to also write a letter of protest to the FCC. > Advocating murder has no place on TV. > Robertson wants to be the next Hitler, and don't think "it can't > happen here." It could. > Bob Hi, everybody, Count me among those boringly nonparanoid folks who doubt that it could happen here. And in the highly unlikely event that it does, rest assured that Pat Robertson won't be the guy in charge of it. Robertson is a nutball who has many weird beliefs, none of which -- Bob's hysterical advice notwithstanding -- ought to drive us to phone, fax, or post office in an effort to deny the man his First Amendment rights, even to express hateful opinions about ufologists. Remember, it was not that long ago that the debunkers at CSICOP wanted the FCC to hassle networks that run pro-anomaly/paranormal TV programming. Those who want to know just how crazy Crazy Pat is might want to turn to Michael Lind's "Rev. Robertson's Grand International Conspiracy Theory" in the February 2, 1995, issue of The New York Review of Books. Reviewing Robertson's book The New World Order -- not, I ought to warn fellow pro rasslin' fans, about Hollywood Hulk Hogan and his villainous crew; it would be a better book if it were -- Lind finds that Crazy Pat has lifted, and simply updated, traditional themes from anti-Semitic conspiracy lore, except this time the Jews are (fatuously and tastelessly, in view of this century's sad history) euphemistically referred to as "Germans." In real life Crazy Pat, who in the 1980s looked as if he had some real muscle to flex in the political arena, has the sort of public approval numbers that make Newt Gingrich appear a beloved statesman by comparison. Consequently, he has in effect crawled back under the rock from which he slithered orginally. If any ufologists get stoned to death, it's more likely to be from abuse of substances than from rocks hurled by a Crazy Pat freakozoid. The best way to deal with guys like this is to laugh at them. The worst way is the one Bob advocates. Jerry Clark Search for other documents from or mentioning: clark | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 'Robert Ghost Wolf' - Italian? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 18:29:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:27:45 -0400 Subject: 'Robert Ghost Wolf' - Italian? Hey Art Bell, remember that gal friend pysisiistssss type that was working for Cortney Brown that gave you big rastas over that FAKE Hale Bobb "Companion" ???? You got a wining hand on that one because you could NOT investigate. This *IS* something you can investigate. Could it be that Robert Ghost Wolf is "CHANNELING" and you ain't caught on yet? Subject: Re: EDITORIAL FREEDOM FOR TRACK RECORD Sent: 8/23/97 3:14 PM Received: 8/23/97 6:19 PM From: Don Allen, dona@totcon.com To: Pat Parrinello, pparri@crossfields.com CC: erik@crossfields.com At 01:38 PM 08/23/97 -0500, Pat Parrinello wrote: >>Henry Franzoni > > Rumor has it that Henry Franzoni is in fact "Ghost or Grey Wolf" > That appears on Art Bell from time to time. > > Don Allen can elaborate for you... > > Anyway, let's find out! :-D I don't about a "Henry Franzoni" but one Robert Frances Franzone is who "Robert Ghost Wolf" is. He has also gone by the names of Robert Parry, Bobby Wolfe and Robert Wolfe. He isn't a Native American either; he's Italian. "Robert Ghost Wolf" is what you call a phony-baloney plastic injun, and yes he has been on Art Bell a few times. The reason I know all this is because I'm in touch with some of his past victims he's scammed. I just forced Franzone to take down the credit card form on his site (http://wolflodge.org) that he was using to sell Lori and Len Toye's I AM AMERICA products. The Toyes had not given him any permission to Franzone for him to use and exploit their trademarks and copyrights nor had they given him authorization for him to sell their products. In addition, I have a fax copy of Len Toye's "Cease and Desist" order to Franzone, which was sent to Franzone. Franzone has a longggg history of conning people and was in deep shit in the State of California for fraudulent practices. He's as dirty as they come. Art Bell has been informed about some of this by Franzone's former girlfriend, one Judi Koteen Pope, but has apparently chosen not to investigate Franzone and stupidly believes his "Native American" bullshit line totally at face value. There isn't a single drop of Native American blood in all of Franzone's fat bloated body. This guy belongs in jail. He's a bunko artist. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Rebecca Rants From: "S. Baldwin" <sblee@stc.net> Susan Baldwin Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 09:43:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:20:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants >> > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> > From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >> > From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >> > From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> >> > Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants >piece about trace evidence. So why is anyone surprised when highly >sensational (and probably questionable) evidence is consumed and >preferred before serious and not-so-titillating evidence? > And, if the public is so willing to eat this stuff up, the law of >supply and demand enters the equation. Essentially, there's more on the >way. > I think another key is the inability of the American public to sustain >an interest in virtually anything for long periods of time. Flashy and >sensational entertainment is the order of the day. >focus is going to stay. It's bound to be frustrating for someone doing >not-so-sensational investigations to see their work taking a back seat >to someone claiming to have direct contact with the space brothers, for >instance. Rebecca Could it be the American public needs this flashy *out -there* UFO stuff because then it becomes unreal and can be dismissed. Unreal is so much easier to deal with than the thought of any of these sightings and abductions being an actual fact. When you make a joke or caricature of a subject that is frightening or incomprehensible it reduces it to a cartoon which is acceptable. When I try and talk to my more religious friends about these things their reaction is to either try and change the subject or put the issue in a religious context. If I start joking around about it it's ok, but getting serious is not......there is no neat little frame for them to put this information in and I think that frightens them. Until we have a something like a respected news paper with a regular column devoted to UFO events or some regular media event that has the guts to treat this as less than speculative and more of a ho-hum "they are here lets deal with it" we are going to get this "space brothers" stuff. If its any consolation, I guess we are in somewhat the same position as the bunch who first claimed the earth revolved around the sun. Imagine the jokes that were made about THAT one, and imagine the wing-nuts attached to the concept. Susan Search for other documents from or mentioning: sblee | jvif | mcashman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Alfred's Odd Ode #172 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 10:51:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:55:15 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #172 Apology to MW #172 (For August 24, 1997) I just walked in from the vastness that holds our heaven and hell. It holds those two potentials though it's history that will tell. And not the one that's made up to satisfy the winner, And not the social treatment kind, or the ones from born 'aginners. History as it really was -- Calvin Coolidge was a monster. History as it really was -- Man's integrity's impostered. History as it really was -- The RICH would call it stealing. History as it really was -- The poor were fed their feelings. Unjust manipulation is the fiber of our culture. The rules are made of gold, and the maker apes the vulture. The winner wrote the words contrived to rake the booty in. He's always been the victor, though, regardless he who wins. Rebecca says it's entertainment the masses always crave. Our Roman history legacy, infotainment's latest craze. React to flash, and bored with facts, you rally for sensation? But confronted with the evidence, you feel a scared deflation? If talking just _ONE_ trace case, it should blow the whole thing up! For the _solitary_ trace case, grind the whole mess to a halt! For just _one_ stinking trace case -- bring whole cultures to a stop! BE CERTAIN there are HUNDREDS that are worth some REAL salt! We're not interested in looking while beholding implication. If your threatened summer country homes might come to liquidation. If the loss of precious dollars is to turn uncaring eye, Then please consume some fecal stuff, freak out, go mad, and die. I've heard it said that panic follows saucers in our skies. That millions would go terror mad if all should see them fly! Suicide would hit the ceiling -- and millions more would starve! Well, I just flat don't buy it -- not a ribbon, pot, or shard! Would we do this if we found some folks who'd never used a spoon? Would we do it if we found out there were people on the moon? I'm not concerned with those that fall in light of strange new days. Be it son or wife or mommy, or my Dad or ME that pays! We let our culture by with murder, and we tolerate in it What we crush out individually, so stay mired in the shit. On guard for serial murder when from the single person, But unmindful when the system does it, and it's done it in _immersion_. I'm just a soldier and a teacher and I pay more than my end. I don't cheat Unk Sam from taxes, and I've been a loyal friend. I don't bully, I don't lie, and I give an even break, And I speak my mind objectively, on the level, not the make. I eschew the stunted bunkie that likes things when they're static -- Where it's built to suit the boorish style of the skeptical fanatic. Where ones comfort comes from life blood of those who do without. All the trappings of their shuttered world not kept to close about. It's rational that we are watched, using postulates of Drake. Reported in our skies, I'm sure, reality's at stake! Traces HAVE been left -- they go ignored, eschewed, unstudied, But the pillars of our culture? . . .Non disclosing, soiled and bloodied. They know more than they're telling, we deserve their contribution. This insures against complete collapse, and mass's retribution. I want a true world based on fact -- though the heavens crack and fall -- No longer hanging over me, so I'll clearly hear the call. Lehmberg@snowhill.com What call? The call of my muse, you bilious sneering skeptibunker! Who's voice? Why, the inner one of course -- the only one I'm sure of! I can't hear it in the clutter of your media's exhortations to burn and consume. I can't hear it in the frothing of your Pat Robertson, or Jerry Falwell that UFO's are agents of Satan=85(in fact, the more they froth the more I am convinced that the INVERSE _must_ be true)! I can't hear it in YOUR deafening silence; a silence unpunctuated by even an indirect or private exhortation for me to shut the fuck up -- Well, except for Robert Todd, and he hardly counts. I'll tell you what you need, fellow motes. You need to have me investigating this full time -- I'll tell what you'd see like you were standing there!!! -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for pointing out the cracks in heaven =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" HARASSMENT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 UFOR: Project Pounce From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:34:15 -0400 Subject: UFOR: Project Pounce From: Chris Lambright <chrisl@www.tcet.unt.edu> As someone who has been curious about Project Pounce for many years, and spent a good deal of time trying to locate records related to it, I have two questions. 1) I recently checked again and to my knowledge there has not been any verified documentation released to date concerning exactly what this project dealt with, and what it's purpose was. So my question is, is there any factual support to the above statement that the project was to "secure the area of downed UFOs and seize the craft and its occupants"? I'm sure many here would appreciate seeing some substantiation along with this claim. 2) Is there also any verification that Steve Wilson was in fact a "former head of Project Pounce" and can this be substantiated. Chris Lambright -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chris Lambright "If at first you do succeed chrisl@www.tcet.unt.edu try not to look astonished!" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=>*<*>*<=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:34:06 -0400 Subject: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Has any evidence of any kind been provided to establish that any of the claims of Colonel Wilson are true? How about some documentation like DD 214, how he knows how many are being shot down, where he worked on Project Pounce? Just what weapons are used to shoot them down? Where does the wreckage go? Others who were involved? Claims come easy... like the false opnes of Bob Lazar, Guy Kirkwood, Michael Wolf etc... A very skeptical Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Scientists Manufacture Roswell-Like Material From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:12:26 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:01:20 -0400 Subject: Scientists Manufacture Roswell-Like Material For my part the story began when I received the ensuing post from "alt.alien.visitors" on August 20 at 07.04 local Danish time (GMT + 2 hours), but before I bring it, I would like to add a few comments. 'Ambassador Magazine' is published monthly, and offered free of charge while traveling on TWA. The URL of the main site devoted to nanotubes is: http://www.pa.msu.edu/cmp/csc/nanotube.html Thirdly I have included the URL of a text by Peter Harris at the University of Reading in the UK, one of the leading researchers in the field and authoring a book on the sucject, soon to be published by Cambridge University Press. The text doesn't refer to the exact material described in Ambassador Magazine, but gives a short historical background on nanotubes. The URL of the page, which has many interesting links, is: http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~scsharip/tubes.htm ******* 20. August 1997 06.50.24 alt.alien.visitors Item From: MGFF04A@prodigy.com,usenet Subject: Roswell: metal that springs back to shape To: alt.alien.visitors Many witnesses of the Roswell incident spoke about a material resembling lead foil that wouldn't crease or dent, and that would return to its original shape. Imagine my surprise when I read the following article from the July 1997 edition of AMBASSADOR magazine--I don't remember exactly, but I think it was a Northwest flight and hence the Northwest Airlines in-flight magazine. "It's between 10 and 100 times stronger than steel with one-sixth the weight. It can crumple without breaking, then spring back to its original shape. Within a few years, it may be used to reinforce airplane wings and tether satellites to the Earth. No, it's not Superman's hair. It's the world's strongest fiber. "The carbon nanotube is thinner than a pencil lead and made entirely of interlinked graphite atoms. 'This is the strongest material known,' reports Thomas Ebbesen, a professor of chemistry as Pasteur University in Strasbourg, France, and a pioneering expert on the filaments. Rice University physicist Peter Nordlander goes a step further, echoing the views of most researchers working on the tubes: 'This is quite probably the strongest material that can be made.' "The reason: Carbon atoms attach to other bits of matter using a covalent electrical bond, the strongest form of bond between atoms. The larger the distance between atoms, the weaker the links binding them together. Carbon's electrical strength and small size enable it to form a denser, stronger mesh of atomic bonds than any other material. ... "So far, researchers have been able to make tubes no longer than about 100 microns--a few hundredths of an inch.... "....Nobel chemist Richard Smalley of Rice University envisions a carbon filament one millimeter in diameter anchoring a satellite stationed more than 22,000 miles above the globe. The cord ... would weigh about 20 tons, he calculates, and could easily support its own weight. "'Who knows what might be possible with nanotubes?' Ebbesen adds.'They're the ultimate fiber." Is it just me, or does this have the appearance of a smoking gun? Responses to: MGFF04A@prodigy.com Date: 20 Aug 1997 04:50:24 GMT From: MGFF04A@prodigy.com (Anthony Nemelka) Subject: Roswell: metal that springs back to shape Message-ID: <5tdt2g$1i2m$1@newssvr01-int.news.prodigy.com> ******* Exciting stuff, but then I received an alarming and thought-provoking update by Ed Wang, forwarded to me by "Doc in Phoenix". I went to American Computer's site and found information that may broaden the perspective on some of Philip Corso's disclosures in "The Day After Roswell", as well as the alleged Roswell material that was presented during the festivities in July. I have added the page to Wang's post. The URL is: http://www.American-Computer.com/roswell.htm ******* 21. August 1997 09.09.52 Message From: authority@webtv.net,Internet Subject: MORE ON THE BELL LABS STUFF DURING 50's ! To: Stig Agermose sirius@concentric.net,Internet artbell@aol.com,Internet (snip) [Begin RFC-822 message.] From: acsa@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:01:47 -0500 (CDT) To: authority@webtv.net Message-Id: <199782020718411478@> Subject: Re: ANYTHING NEW ON 1950's RELATING TO ROSWELL? X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.25, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I reviewed the ROSWELL materials on American Computer's website a second time, at: http://www.American-Computer.com I also called internally and spoke with American's VP of Research. He advised me that Air Force OSI was not particularly pleased with his release of that page or of the following page: http://www.American-Computer.com/roswell.htm I believe he was questioned about his security clearance by them. I understand they may be rather chagrined. I heard American's offices were broken in to after the article first appeared on the web. Interestingly, he also added the following, and I quote: "Ed -- really, as to the fragment of Silicon Carbide and Tungsten, with Arsenic doping, believed to be from the wreck, I really don't know, but if I were to speculate, and it has been speculated by others, that the Transistor might have evolved from testing a piece of it, discovering its 'Bipolarity' and 'Switching nature', and its ability to amplify, at Bell Labs... but most interestingly, perhaps an ElectroGravinomic Interference Drive..." (those are his exact terms, continuing...) "...could actually be the purpose of such a device - if one in fact exists...by running about 80 Million volts into a moving electromagnetic field, such a panel, composed of a sandwich like that, could oscillate and that might result in some pretty interesting side effects - I don't even think the Department of Defense may realize what the side effects are - I did early work on my own years ago, High Energy Physics research work, and once proposed this solution to the problem of defeating gravity, while making a sufficiently light and yet resistant panel that could overcome the friction due to atmospheric re-entry, to the DoD and NASA, but they just seemed not to be interested, back in 1972, those having been war years and all... It's pretty technical what I was proposing - has a lot to do with areas of gravity research work I did that go quite a bit different path than Isaac Newtonian gravity 'beliefs' - but which are neither contradicted by, nor conflict with, Einstein or Hawking... " (to which he added:) "If such a component does exist from such a UFO wreck, maybe it's part of an interStellar Drive, don't you think? Gravity Interference can also be used as a rather high energy propulsion system - but to explain why, would take an hour I don't have to spend on the phone with you...sorry to say." That's an exact quote. Interesting phone call. He's quite open about it. Mentioned that if someone was going to silence him, they could have done it 25 years ago when he was theorizing about the structure of empty space and gravity. Very interesting guy. I thought maybe that's why we haven't heard about all this during the past twenty five! Food for thought. -- Ed Wang [End RFC-822 message.] ******* This is from American Computer: http://www.American-Computer.com/roswell.htm ******* EXPRESS YOUR OPINION ABOUT THE ROSWELL INCIDENT !! BACKGROUNDER & RECENT DEVELOPMENTS. [ Go fill out OPINION form NOW! ] [ Go to main AMERICAN COMPUTER Website... ] RUMOR and CONVENTIONAL FOLK LORE have claimed that a UFO crash landed in Roswell, New Mexico, in September, 1947 near a Nuclear Research Center maintained by the US Air Force at its airbase in Roswell. Supposedly, authentic reports of the crash were suddenly covered up by the Air Force -- because the information unwisely released by base PR personnel, might constitute a threat to national security. Anecdotal reports have since claimed that Aliens, killed in the wreck, or afterward, were subsequently autopsied by the Surgeon General's office, and that the Surgeon General insisted that the autopsy be filmed. Supposedly: their bodies are now being stored by the US Army. Much more recently, stories have begun surfacing about what the Army or Air Force supposedly did with the downed Alien Spacecraft in September and October of 1947. Nuclear Powered Engines and Advanced Communications and Computing devices, all of which were a hundred years beyond post-World War II technology, were taken from the Alien wreck and purportedly made their way to The Bell System's "Bell Laboratories", then located in Murray Hill, New Jersey -- it has been alleged. There, they were studied, dissected, microanalyzed and pieces tested. One piece was supposedly found to have unique potential, an Alien switching device composed of Silicon and Arsenic, arranged in a microscopic array much more complicated than even now have been assembled by Humankind, hundreds of years ahead. It became the priority focus object of Bell Labs' and The US Department of Defense's analysis and scientific research. It was discovered by the researchers, that the unusual electronic Alien device could act as both a high speed electronic switch and as an Amplifier. They decided to call it the "Transfer Resistor", because it could be made to resist or accept power flow at much higher or lower currents than were applied to it, depending upon unique application of electron flows. Rumors have been flying in UFO-logy circles that, in 1948 and 1949, realizing that Aliens might not take lightly to this research, fearing attack not from the Soviet Union -- but from Aliens of unknown origin -- the U.S. Government hurriedly erected anti-missile batteries in the surrounding Watchung Mountains of New Jersey... near Bell Lab's Murray Hills facility, to protect it from space invasion!! It is not known if this is any indication that the Department of Defense accidently shot down the space craft and feared a reprisal. The alleged Space Defense Anti-missile Batteries, along the Lookout Mountain Ridge north of Bell Labs, is now abandonded and partly overbuilt by a regional high school. On the "Lookout Mountain Nike Base" there were, supposedly, frequent "alien anti-invasion" readiness exercises and drills throughout the 50's, 60's and the early 70's, notably: their frequency reportedly increased any time UFO sightings were reported to the US Air Force -- particularly in the New Jersey flight corridors, or so it has been alleged !! According to one account: the Alien Silicon "amplifier / switch", evaluated in October and November of 1947, was discovered to have enormous implications. The Alien device was allegedly a hundred years beyond the then simple "junction diodes" commonly in use at the time by military electronics. Yet it was reportedly determined at the time that simplified versions of the Alien devices could be manufactured by the effecting of several upgrades to existing technology. Then President Harry S. Truman ordered the devices "cloned" and a cover story manufactured. He was supposedly quoted as saying: "We can't keep so earthshaking a technological advance out of the hands of mankind. It just isn't right !" -- with classic Harry S. Truman sobriety. So, according to the story leaked by a reliable source to UFO-logy circles: in mid-December of 1947, to effect a plausible cover story, the DoD and Bell Labs purportedly manufactured a series of Press Releases, to whit: that after a "2 Year Long Extensive Research Effort" --discovery of the Transistor had "at last" been accomplished, supposedly by clever Bell Labs researchers (Drs. Shockley, Bardeen and Brattain, at Bell Lab's Electronic Circuits Research Center, under the aegis of maverick Bell Labs Vice President John "Jack" Morton). Since that time, The Bell System, and Bell Labs, in the hands of successor company AT&T and its partly owned subsidiary, Lucent Technologies, have continued to maintain the "Transistor Story" for all of posterity, while quietly covering up the real tracks that led the Alien devices to Bell Labs. Ufology sources say, however, that the device in the famous "transfer resistor test rig" at Bell Labs was, in fact, an actual piece of the original Alien integrated circuit array of transistor-like circuit pieces -- found in one of the Alien communication devices at the Crash Site in Roswell, N.M. It has allegedly been reported that it took a year or more for Bell Labs to then figure out how to commercially produce the miracle devices. Reportedly, subsequent technology obtained over the course of the next 10 years by Bell Labs, from the pieces of the wreck delivered to them by the DoD, included the Laser, enhanced solid state circuit components, large scale switching control systems and high definition imaging devices... However, some devices from the downed Alien spacecraft, not fully understood to this day, allegedly include a high energy microwave amplifier that has the secondary effect of decomposing solid objects into their molecular components, a form of circuitry that runs on other than electronic power: using particles thought to have very short half-lifes in the natural universe ("muons"), and a huge induction generator-like coil system some 50 feet in diameter which appears to implement part of some aspect of the vehicle's ability to perform unique flying characteristics and aerobatics - some think it might be a "gravity nullifying" device. What do you think?? Do YOU have any thing to add, such as an abduction experience, or a theory about Alien Visitations to our Planet? Did you work at Bell Labs during the 50's, 60's, 70's or in recent times, and notice anything unusual which might confirm or rebut these rumors? Add your comments below... and add your name to our Guest Mailing List. We will send you notification of new products as they are developed !! And stay tuned, we update our Website, FREQUENTLY !! To Submit your comments, Please fill in ALL of the following fields. We will also be adding you to our mailing list... All submissions are evaluated for possible PUBLICATION on this site, so don't be afraid to EXPRESS YOURSELF !! (snip) Member of the Internet Link Exchange (c) Copyright 1997 American Computer Company. Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | mgff04a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Remaking Ufology From: Jane Blume <jblume@rt66.com> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 14:03:08 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:25:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Remaking Ufology >Recently Rebecca posed some questions that should be asked by everyone >interested in UFOs. There was also some discussion of ways to improve UFO >research by applying a scientific structure to it. I would like to see >this thread continue as it seems to me to be more important than any other >discussion currently on this list. Conclusions based on faith and desire should be crushed under >conclusions based on facts. >Dave Everett. My response to Dave's posting: Amen. I recently wrote a note to a colleague who has a UFO listserv, saying that: 1. I have had three sightings of objects that demonstrated "high strangeness" over the last 30 years, and as a result, I am convinced that there is "something" to the UFO phenomenon - I just don't know what the nature of the phenomenon is. 2. And neither does the respected researcher Jacques Vallee, or the credible experiencer Whitley Strieber. Vallee has written this in his books, and I heard Strieber say it at a book signing for "The Secret School." 3. It's very difficult to know how to sort out the counterclaims one sees and hears - especially on the Internet - without hard, scientific data to support them. 4. We may never really know for certain what is going on unless whoever is responsible for the observed phenomena decide to reveal it to all of us en masse. JB Jane Blume Desert Sky Communications Albuquerque, New Mexico "Providing a broad range of services to help you get the right messages to the right audiences." (505) 294-1976 FAX: (505) 275-8171 email: jblume@rt66.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Rebecca Rants - Infrastructure & Inclusion From: SGBList2@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:31:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Rebecca Rants - Infrastructure & Inclusion Subj: Re: Current Rebecca-threads on infrastructure and inclusion Date: 08/20/97 To: updates@globalserve.com To: Steven Kaeser, Michael Malone, Rebecca, Dennis Stacy........ I believe the ideas in play on the two threads which have sprung out of "Rebecca's Rants" are of great importance to the field. There are developments underway which will demand that these issues be resolved. As perhaps the most sophisticated, informed and intellecutual public forum of its kind operating today, I can think of no better place than Updates for a truly thorough examination of these remaining, vexing issues which stand between the UFO research community (sorry Michael) and the full participation and recognition it deserves within and beyond the coming transition. The responses by those mentioned above to my two Rebecca posts are complex and comprehensive. I want to respond carefully and will need a bit of time. In the intermin I am hopeful others with perhaps years of time invested in one or more aspects of this field will offer their views. Steve Bassett Paradigm Research Group ParadigmRG@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 UFOR: Further findings of Project MILAB From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 15:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:34:26 -0400 Subject: UFOR: Further findings of Project MILAB From: Frank Altomonte <alto@earthlink.net> Further findings of Project MILAB: Looking behind the alien/military abduction agenda by Helmut Lammer Ph.D. I. Introduction Since I published my preliminary findings of allegd alien abductees who experienced possible kidnapings by special military/intelligence units, I got new information, especially from North American abductees and abduction researchers. Most of this information is new and was not published before. The results of and the response to my study show that there are more alleged alien abductees who also experienced unintentional human/military contacts (MILABs) during their lives. I published an overview of this study, coauthored by my wife, in a comprehensive book which is currently not available in English. By summarizing our findings we found that [1,2]: 1.) MILABs are harassed by dark, unmarked helicopters around their houses. The mysterious helicopter activity goes back to the late sixties, early seventies, when they showed an interest in animal mutilations but not for alleged alien abductees. 2.) MILABs have ''not only'' alien abduction experiences, they report that they were kidnapped by a certain branch of human/military personnel, they were drugged, taken to hospital like rooms and (under)ground military facilities, they saw men in white lab coats, they were examined, interrogated and sometimes implanted with military devices. Readers who are interested in more details should read my first MILAB article or wait for a possible english edition of our book. These results, however, should lead the open minded researcher to three important questions. 1.) Is it possible that secret human experiments or covert operations could occur in western democraties? 2.) What is the human agenda which seems to be involved in the alien abduction phenomenon and what is the purpose of MILABs? 3.) Is there a military interest in developing brain implants, virtual reality bio-chips, holographic image projection, cloaking devices, mind altering weapons,...which would support the hypothesis that such secret experiments on humans are going on hidden inside black projects? The present article tries to answer these important questions. II. Documented history of secret mind and behavior control experiments Everyone who claims that secret experiments and covert operations against ones own people, including children are not occuring in western democraties like the USA, Canada or England should look at the documented history of military/intelligence radiation experiments as well as mind and behavior control projects which are now known to the public. During November 1996 the British press reported that the Ministry of Defense (MoD) carried out secret radiation experiments on humans for the past forty years. In 1994 the US government lifted the lid on secret experiments with scant regard for the subjects--many of whom were disadvantaged people.[3] For about 30 years after World War II the American government through the Departement of Defense (DoD), the CIA and various nongovernment research organisations conducted medical research on tousands of citizens, often without their knowledge. This research was largely concerned with radiation exposure, nerve gas, LSD and various biological agents. Recently it was disclosed that radiation experiments were performed on more than 23000 Americans in about 1400 different projects in the 30 years following the war.[4] The people on whom these experiments were run were soldiers, prisoners, those considered to be mentally defective (children and adults), hospital patients with terminal illnesses and pregnant poor women. Many of the scientists who conducted these Nazi-like experiments where respectable academics. Dr. Edwin Cameron was such a scientist on the surface but he led a CIA funded laboratory at McGill University during the 50ies where patients were used as guinea pigs in brainwashing experiments. Some inmates were given ECT ''therapy'' twice daily, others were drugged and kept unconcisious for weeks or months, injected with huge amounts of hallucinogens, and subjected to long term sensory deprivation.[5] A panel, appointed by the Clinton administration in 1994 to look into these matters, has so far documented 400 government backed biomedical experiments involving humans between 1944 and 1975. The purpose of these experiments may never be fully known. It is not certain when these experiments stopped, if they stopped at all, but they were still going on in mid-70ies.[4] The Canadian psychiatrist and specialist on trauma and dissociation, Dr. Colin Ross, presented a paper at the 9th Annual Western Clinical Conference on Trauma and Dissociation in Orange County, California [6], where he showed that he encountered evidence from released CIA-FOIA documents that the agency did research on the creation of Manchurian candidates since World War II. Dr. Ross and research organisations like the New York based Advocacy Committee for Human Experiment Survivors-Mind Control (ACHES-MC) also came across survivors of horrific experiments involving electroshock, drugs, brain implants, sensory deprivation, psychic driving, locked in cages, forced sleep and sexual and ritual abuse.[7,8] Once selected, victims have been used as human lab animals repeatetly--some of them have been used throughout their lifetime in one externally controlled and monitored experiment after another. ACHES-MC delivered in 1997 a video-document to president Clinton and the Canadian prime minister Chretien where they requested a presidental hearing and declassification of government records related to alleged mind control experiments conducted on unwitting children and adults and funded by the US government from the 1940ies onwards. In this videotape are statements by both alleged survivors of nonconsensual federally funded mind control experimentation as children or adults, and also therapists, psychiatrists and psychologists.[8] Their victims, however, do not report alleged alien/UFO contacts like MILAB victims but some of the MILAB experiences fit also in the pattern described above. This short excursion in the past of secret experiments on humans and the evidence for present followup projects support the MILAB hypothesis of covert operations against civilians well. III. Possible purpose of MILABs Since I now have more MILAB information, I think that the whole alien/human abduction scenario is more complex than I thought at first. It seems to me that there is evidence that more than one human agenda may be involved in the unexplained alien abdcution phenomenon. Each of these agendas have probably their own interest in alleged alien abductees. It seems to me that the first group is interested in mind and behavior control experiments. I found evidence of sensory deprivation experiments, liquid breathing experiments, experiments on electromagnetic stimulation of the temporal lobes, brain research and implant research. The second group seems to be interested in biological and/or genetic research. Some MILAB victims recall that they saw humans in tubes filled with liquid and genetically altered animals in cages during their kidnappings inside military underground facilities. It should be noted that alien abductees ''without'' military contacts remember similar scenarios inside UFOs. The third group seems to be a military task force, which operates since the eighties and is interested in the UFO/alien abduction phenomenon for information gathering purposes. This would be a logical consequence if one with the right ''Need to Know'' considers that some alien abductions may be real. It seems to me that the leaders of this military task force think that some alien abductions are real and that they have national security implications. It could be that the second and third group work together, since they could share their interest in genetic studies and findings from alleged alien abductees. I'll concentrate now on tank/tube experiences of alleged alien and MILAB abductees who represent victims of the before mentioned groups. It should be noted that they are not alone and that their cases are only examples for a much larger pool of victims. IV. Tank/tube experiences Michelle (pseudonym) had her first concisious memory of typical alien abduction experiences with non human beings at the age of eight. She remembers classic alien abduction experiences with 3-4 feet tall beings with large heads. The following experiences, however, have nothing to do with alien abductions. Michelle had traumatic flashbacks, reality like dreams and some concisiously remembered MILAB events. The memory gaps were investigated by using regressive hypnosis sessions with a professional Ph.D. hypnotherapist who is well known in this field and who is also a MUFON consultant. Michelle and a boyfriend had a missing time/kidnapping experience during 1970 near a campsite at Ditch Plains in Montauk, New York. She remembers that both were taken by armed military personnel to the now closed Montauk base. They were separated and Michelle was escorted inside an underground facility where she had several frightening experiences.[9,10] She remembers to be in a doctors examining room, with machines and stainless steel equipment and a table covered in white. Michelle was placed on the table and strapped down, including her head. After a few minutes a group of 5-6 people, including one female, came into the room. All of them wore medical cloths white gowns. Surcical masks covering their heads like doctors in a hospital. They turned her head sideways and shaved a small portion of an area behind her right ear. She was completely conscisious but immobilized and she could not talk.[9] Michelle remembers that someone was writing something on the skin behind her ear. After this she got an intravenous (IV) injection, she feeled a prick in her arm and loses consciousness and awaked with her boyfriend, who was also kidnapped, later on the beach. The next hypnosis session opened further traumatic flashbacks of being in an isolation tank. The following experience was investigated during an emotional hypnosis regression session. Michelle had never had this experience while under hypnosis before. She recalled being in a dark place, she was afraid and floated in something that felt slightly heavier than warm water.[9] Before this experience she was naked on a table and had wires attached all over her body and her head and she saw a doctor in a white lab coat standing next to her. The next experience was uncovered via a deep trance regression which probed again into the isolation tank experience. Michelle remembered once again that she was in a black enclosed area where she struggled and was afraid of drowning. The experience scared her a lot and she wanted out of the tank. She felt that the liquid was heavier than water, it was warm and she smelled a minty odour? She moved her arms and legs slightly and her head too. She felt the smooth surface of the isolation tank on her right if she streched her arm. She was completely isolated in the dark tank and had a kind of artificially induced ''out-of-body'' experience or began to hallucinate. I researched the literature of sensory deprivation experiments and came across such isolation tanks which were invented by Dr. John Lilly.[11] Dr. Lilly tried to find out how he could isolate the brain and mind. He considered what thought, according to our present scientific consensus is to stimulate a body. He considered effects of light and its stimulation of the eyes, touch and pressure and their stimulation of the skin and deep-lying organs within the body. He looked at temperature differences, at clothing, effects of gravitation and the effects of heat and cold. Dr. Lilly visualized a soundproof tank in which the body could be supported in water that would be maintained at the proper temperature to take care of the generation of heat within the body. He found such a tank inside a soundproof chamber in an isolated building near the campus of the National Institute of Health. This tank was constructed during World War II for experiments by the Office of Naval Research on metabolism of underwater swimmers. This was the beginning for research on isolation, including drugs.[11] It should be noted that Dr. Lilly experimented also with brain implants during the late fifties and early sixties. This was also the period when he was contacted by covert intelligence services and researchers for the Department of Defense (DoD). Dr. Lilly wrote in his book ''The Scientist'' that while he was at the National Institute of Health, the isolation tank-work, like the brain-electrode work, became subject to the politics.[11] As the isolation tank research became known throughout government agencies, various idividuals called him to find out about it. Dr. Lilly claims, that among them were researchers working under the auspices of the Army in regard to brainwashing of captured prisoners of war. He was asked if the isolation tank could be used to change believe systems of persons under coercion. They wanted use to the isolation tanks and sensory deprivation experiments for brain washing and other mind control experiments. Dr. John Lilly visualized situations in which this method would be used under coercion, by careful control of the stimulation of isolated persons, that their believe systems could be changed in directions desired by the controlling persons. Dr. Lilly was convinced that the military/intelligence community would use his isolation technique for covert experiments.[11] I think, that Michelle's experiences show us that this was true and that there is enough evidence that she is one victim of such a deprivation tank experiment. One should note, however, that this specific experience had nothing to do with aliens, although I don't know how her alien abduction experiences fit in this scenarios. As I noted in my first MILAB paper, the presence of human military personnel inhabiting the same physical reality as alien beings are unbelievable for sceptics and open minded serious abduction researchers too. Although Michelle's before mentioned experiences were definitely terrestrial, she experienced also a high strangeness close-encounter during the same MILAB. She got traumatic flashbacks under hypnosis of a reptiloid creature, which was also investigated. She described that she was escorted by military personnel into a dark-office like room where she was raped by a reptiloid creature. I don't know what this traumatic experience means. I don't think, however, that the military worked with this reptiloid creature. It could be possible that Andree was drugged with a halluzinogene and projected the reptiloid as a kind of screen memory, although she described the skin and other features of the creature very well. Was this particular experience the product of a mind control procedure? One should consider such procedures first, since her other experiences in the underground facility were completely terrestrial and recent hypnosis sessions performed with Michelle during July 1997 revealed that she may be used in various mind control experiments during her life time.[12] During a two hour session she remembered to be in a room with 2-3 men who were in charge of men in lab coats. Before this she was in some kind of examination room, where someone mounted something on her head. She described silver colored tongs, pinching at her temples and inducing an intense pain in her head. This experience remembers me of an artifical stimulation experiment for temporal lobes with magnetic fields. Dr. Michael Persinger, a neuroscientist at Laurentian University of Sudbury, Ontario, showed that one can artificially produce mystical experiences, out of body excursions and other psychic experiences by stimulating the temporal lobes by applying magnetic fields across the brain, since he found that such experiences are linked with excessive bursts of electrical activity in the temporal lobes.[13] A research target would get a helm or tong-like device on the head and an artificial generated magnetic field would mimic the firing patterns of neurons in the temporal lobes of the brain. Dan Wright, head of the MUFON Abduction Transcription Project, reviewed his records concerning tube or tank experiences of alleged alien abductees. He found several cases in his files in which the abductee saw a tube during her/his experience, but did not identify anything or anyone inside it.[14] In 4 cases abductees described large clear tubes and recalled either being placed inside it or seeing someone else inside. Two of these 4 abductees saw an alien creature in the tube. Dan Wright's files reveal 3 cases in which the abductee was in a tank filled with liquid and in two cases the victim was forced to breath the liquid! None of the abductees who placed in a tube or tank reported any unusual mind set like Andree (out of body experience, remote viewing, or the like) during their time in these containers. ''Two'' of seven tank cases reported military involvement, but not on the same night as the tube or tank episode. MILAB victim Lisa (pseudonym) had similar tank experiences like Dan Wright's alien abductees. She was kidnapped and brought to a military underground facility, where she saw naked humans floating in tubes. Lisa for instance claims that she was forced by humans into some type of pool filled with a golden yellow bubbly fluid, while other humans looked at her. Lisa has traumatic recollections that her kidnappers tried to make her and other victims able to breath in the liquid.[15] In two of the before mentioned cases the abductee was forced to breath the liquid like Lisa. The hypnosis trancripts reveal that the liquid breathing experiences were traumatic for the abductees. Both abductees where totally immersed in the liquid and both reported that they could breath the fluid.[14] If one reviews the open scientific literature which is available about fluid breathing, one finds that physically taking fluid into the lungs and breathing liquid instead of air would revolutionize diving. The concept of fluid breathing began in the mid 60ies when Dr. J. Kylstra, a physiologist at the State University of New York at Buffalo realized that salt solutions could be saturated with oxygen at high pressures. Dr. Kylstra worked in a US Navy compression camber and performed experiments on mice. He was able to keep animals alive for up to 18 hours. Since carbon dioxide was not removed fast enough from the system, and quickly build up to near toxic levels, this problem was going to be the stumbling block before his procedure could be used on humans.[16] The next step in fluid breathing came in 1966, with Dr. Leland Clark's liquid-breathing-mouse experiment.[17] Dr. Clark developed a technique where a mouse survived over 20 hours breathing fluid at 18 degrees centigrade. All animals in the early studies suffered pulmonary damage, but that was due to toxic impurities of the fluorocarbon, chemical interaction of the fluorocarbon with the lung, or some unknown effect was undetermined. This pulmonary damage mystery as well as the problem of the elimination of carbon dioxide and the fact that the fluorocarbon tended to be retained by body tissues would have to be solved before the process could be attempted on human subjects. During the following years, the technique of fluid breathing was refined and improved. Liquid ventilation tests of the early 90ies proved to be successful. Scientists kept dogs alive in a perfluorocarbon medium for about two hours. After removal the dogs were slightly hypoxic, but returned to normal live after a few days.[16] After these tests on animals the procedure was ready for human subjects used by the medical community for fighting the respiratory distress syntrome, the leading cause of death in premature infants. One could suspect that liquid breathing experiments on adults, would be extremely useful for military/Navy/intelligence purposes such as submarine escape and undersea oxygen support facilities. Alien abductees, such as Betty Andreason report sometimes that they were put inside a tube filled with liquid for the compensation of large gravity forces during high UFO acceleration periods. One abductee of Dan Wright's files describes such an experience inside such a tube: ''...it's like water in there, it's like being in a swimming pool, only I can see through the sides...it feels like we are moving. Where are we going? Whoo, thats fast. Feels like we are moving fast. Oh! And one's standing outside. He's telling me, ''Thats why we had to put you in here, because we are moving too fast.''...Acceleration. Something about gravity forces too much.''[14] It is interesting to note that under hypnosis this abductee reported how the abductors put something in her nose before they put her in the tube. This means that this abductee was not forced to breath the liquid. Recent scientific studies of visual and photographic sightings of UFOs carrying out ''impossible'' high speed maneuvers by Dr. Bruce Maccabee would support such gravity force compensation tube experiences if the abductee was indeed in a real UFO.[18] Dr. Bruce Maccabee stated in his article ''Acceleration'', that an UFOnaut or abductee inside a UFO accelerating at 500 g's would be pushed by the walls of the craft with a force that would make him seem weight almost 500 times his weight on Earth. The body of an abductee might be crushed at that acceleration, and the skin might be pulled off the bones, unless the human was suspended in a liquid and the lungs and other body cavities were filled with liquid! Other alleged alien abductees report that they saw small alien like beings and adult humans in a state of suspended animation inside tube like incubators. Some of these abductees claim that the humans looked altered like hybrids.[14,19] These would fit the hypothesis of genetic research done by the ''greys.'' But there are also cases where abductees report human doctors escorting them through underground laboratories where they have seen humans in clear tanks.[19] MILAB victim Christa Tilton described such an experience as: ''I did see what I thought were humans in clear tanks underground. The tanks were leaning about 25 degrees backward until they touched the wall. The room was a regular room...like a laboratory. This was never viewed on a spacecraft. They seemed to be, like I said, in a state of suspended animation. There was a clear liquid filled totally in the tank casing...I believe these humans were being kept alive by some type of tubes behind their head.[20]'' Christa Tilton is not alone with such an experience. There are other abductees who claim that they were taken to military underground facilities where they have seen people in such glass or plastic tubes.[19] Some of these MILABs report rows of several identical people, each one in its own tube. One could speculate if someone clones human Dollys in secret. Recently japanese scientists reported that a goat fetus has survived in an artificial womb for three weeks before its birth.[21] The scientists who desined the womb say that it could help premature human babies to survive. Dr. Yoshinori Kuwabara of Juntendo University in Tokyo and his colleagues removed a goat fetus from its mother 17 weeks into the pregnancy. They placed the fetus in a tank filled with liquid to simulate amniotic fluid. A maschine pumped nutrients and oxygen into the animal's blood. Dr. Kuwabara also hopes artificial wombs could one day be used to help fetuses in the final stages of multiple pregnancies when the womb becomes too cramped. However, alien and MILAB abductees claim that they saw small tubes or incubators inside UFOs but also inside terrestrial underground research facilities. Mostly the experiencer describes that these infants look very ill. Alleged alien abductees and abductees with MILAB experiences think that these infants may be hybrids. It would be logical for someone who is interested in cloning that he develops and uses artificial wombs and incubators filled with nutrient fluid for breeding purposes. Scientists who are working on biotechnology projects claim that cloning ''brainless'' humans for transplanting organs would be a reality in the future.[2] At the time ethical considerations are against such Frankenstein like research projects. A more science fiction like purpose would be the creation of a genetically engineered soldier who is immune to biological warfare and possible future genetic warefare attacks. The experiences of some MILAB victims, however, suggest that such projects are indeed going on behind the backs of the official medical research community. Therefore it could be that secret research on artificial wombs and experiments on human fetuses are going on hidden inside black projects. One can see that alien abductees report similar tank/tube experiences inside alleged UFOs as some abductees in alleged military research facilities. Such similarity was also found in implanting procedures between alleged alien abductees and possible mind control victims. I present now a case where it seems to me that a secretly operating military task force could be in charge of researchers of such a black genetic project. This is one well investigated case in the MUFON Abduction Transcription Project files where human/military personnel kidnaps a woman from her house and drives her to a secret place.[14] She is carried into the building and placed onto an examining table. Her feet are placed into stirrups, what is used for gynecological examinations. A female doctor conducts a gynecological exam. She searches for an embryo but never finds any. The MILAB victim remembers the officer in charge as an older man with silver hair who threatens and interrogates her. She loses concisiousness sometime during the examination or on the trip back to her home. Interestingly the military always kidnaps her on the same night or the night after an alleged alien abduction experience. The activity of this military task force, which seems to be interested in particular alien abductees, would be a logical consequence if their leaders think that some alien abductions are real. As I mentioned above it seems that this group works together with black project scientists who are interested in genetic research. It should be noted that the before mentioned abductee reported a tube experience but not on the same night as the military kidnapped her. She observed several tubes with different bodies inside and she was placed in front of a tube with a body of a tall blond human woman inside. She described the tube as a glas or plexiglas cylinder inside a UFO. It should be noted that the above mentioned abductees are not alone and that their cases represent only examples. V. Actual military research/interest in virtual reality brain implants and mind altering weapons Everybody knows now that secret mind/behavior control and radiation experiments were done during the post war phase up to the seventies. We should ask if there is an interest in covert experiments today. MILAB sceptics who claim that the results of this study are rubbish [22] should look into recently declassified Air Force studies [23,24], scientific proceedings for law enforcement and military technologies and news articles concerning exotic weapon research.[25] In a recent paper published for the ''Air Force 2025'' study [24] with the title ''Information Operations: A new War-Fighting Capability'', the authors write about a brain implanted cyber situation.[26] In this paper the authors propagate implanted microscopic brain chips which perform two functions: The bio-chip connects the implanted individual to a constellation of integrated or smart satellites (IIC) in low earth orbit, creating an interface between the implanted person and the information resources. The implant relays the processed information from the IIC to the user. Second, the bio-chip creates a computer generated mental visualization based upon the user's request. The visualization encompasses the individual and allows the user to place himself into a selected ''battlespace''. Further a wide range of lethal or nonlethal weapons will be linked to the IIC, allowing special authorized implanted users (super-cyber-soldiers) to directly employ these weapons. This means, a soldier sees the normal world plus an overlay of informations identifying and describing specific objects in his field of view. He can now evaluade the threat these targets represent and order a variety of weapon systems to engage and destroy these targets from the distant. One can see from such military studies that secret research in human-brain-machine and virtual reality implant research is going on. Most of the references in this paper refer to military research institutes and are classified for the public. Since the authors write that implanting things in peoples raises ethical and public relation issues today, one should ask where the guinea pigs of these futuristic research projects are? An other interesting paper concerning ''Information Warfare'' is classified and only people with appropriate security clearances get a copy from the Defense Technical Information Center in Ft. Belvoir, Virginia.[27] One can read in the abstract that this paper explores holographic image projection, cloaking devices and multispectral camouflage which will provide enhanced military deception capability. The most promising technology is the creation of synthetic environments that an adversary thinks are real! They write further that research for PSYWAR-operations is done to influence a target by using holographic image projection with messages conveying the desired effect. One should again ask who the adversaries and test targets are during these research projects? A recent article in U.S. News $\&$ World Report revealed that the US military developed mind altering weapons exploring acoustics, microwaves and brain-wave manipulation to alter sleep pattern.[25] Interestingly they have a picture of a military helicopter in the article who points a directed energy beam to a house. ,,U.S. News $\&$ World Report'' reported that, according to a Pentagon briefing, acoustic and sonic weapons can vibrate the insides of humans to stun them, nauseate them, or even liquify their bowls. Dr. Eldon Byrd was the head of an exotic electromagnetic weapons project in the early 80ies. He conducted most of his research at the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute in Bethesda, Md. Dr. Byrd claimed that he and his colleagues were looking at electrical activity in the brain and how to influence it. He used ELF (Extremly Low Frequency) waves for stimulating the brain for the release of behavior regulating chemicals. By using these on humans, the test target would cause instant flulike symptoms and produce nausea. Since the field was extremely weak, they were undetectable and reversible. Dr Byrd never tested any of his hardware in the field and his project scheduled for four years was closed down after two. Because the technique worked, he suspects that the program went black. Other scientists told U.S. News $\&$ World Report similar tales of research on electromagnetic radiation turning top secret once successful results were achieved.[25] There are clues that such work is continuing in black projects and MILAB victims like Michelle may be used as guinea pigs for such research programs which are not under congressional oversight. V. Discussion One can assume that similar secret military research projects are done for biological and genetic warfare projects. If one speculates that a core of the alien abduction phenomenon is indeed real, the same people who are behind these projects would have an interest in alien biology/genetics and mind control procedures. Therefore, I think there is a need for some individuals to test the above mentioned technologies on unwitting subjects, since these research is hidden behind deep black projects, only certain people with the right ''Need to Know'' would really know whats going on. This is also the main problem for organisations who push for congressional hearings concerning such experiments on humans, secret genetic research and military involvement in the alien abduction phenomenon...Such projects are unacknowledged special access programs like the stealth projects, therefore, most of the voted politicans don't know that this kind of research is going on. It is also interesting and confusing that most MILAB victims claim that they saw alien beings and human military personnel side by side. Such claims, however, should be carefully investigated and need more research before one concludes that alien beings and military personnel work together. References: [1] Lammer, Helmut: Preliminary Findings of Project MILAB: Evidence for Military Kidnappings of Alleged UFO Abductees. MUFON UFO Journal, Nr. 344, December 1996. [2] Lammer, Helmut, and Lammer, Marion: Verdeckte Operationen: Militaerische Verwicklungen in UFO-Entfuehrungen (Covert Operations: Military Involvement in UFO Abductions/mind control/bio-chips/underground bases/exotic weapons). Herbig (Thomas Wimmer Ring 11, D-80539 Munich), Munich, 1997. [3] Time to come Clean on Radiation Tests. New Scientist, No. 2058, 30. November, 1996. [4] Estling, Ralph: Whatever made them do it? New Scientist, No. 1961. 21. January, 1995. [5] Concar, David: Ethics Code Spells Disaster for Canadian Psychologists. New Scientist, No. 2059, 7. Dezember, 1996. [6] Ross, Collin: The CIA and Military Mind Control Research: Building the Manchurian Candidate. Paper presented at the 9th Annual Western Clinical Conference on Trauma and Dissociation in Orange County, California, 18. April, 1996. [7] Chavaustie, Blanche (Email: C4ixxx@aol.com): Personal communication. ACHES-MC, Box 108, Syosset, New York 11791, http://www.ACHES-MC.org. [8] ACHES-MC Memorial Day Video to President Clinton/Prime Minister Chretien, http://www.ACHES-MC.org, 26. Mai, 1997. [9] Michelle: Hypnosis Transcript. [10] Michelle: Personal communications. [11] Lilly, John: The Scientist: A Metaphysical Autobiography. Ronin Publishing, Inc., Post Office Box 1035, Berkeley, California 94701, 1988/1997. [12] Michelle: Hypnosis regression session during July 1997. [13] Blackmore, Susan: Alien Abduction: The Inside Story. New Scientist, No. 1952, 19. November, 1994. [14] Wright, Dan: Personal communication, 1996, 1997. [15] Lisa: Personal communication, 1996, 1997. [16] Science Web: Fluid Breathing. Starry Messenger Communications, Feedback, 1996. [17] Clark, L. C., and Gollan, R.: Survival of mammals breathing organic liquids equivalent with oxygen at atmospheric pressure. Science 152, 1755-1756, 1966. [18] Maccabee, Bruce, S.: Acceleration, National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS), 1997, and MUFON 1996 UFO Symposium Proceedings, 183-217, Seguin, TX, 1996. [19] Personal communication with several MILAB victims. [20] Tilton, Christa: Personal communication, 1997. [21] Here's looking at you kid (Brief article about artificial womb research). New Scientist, p. 25, No. 2092, 26. July, 1997. [22] Alexander, Victoria: MILAB Misdemeanor? MUFON UFO Journal, No. 346, February, 1997. [23] New World Vistas: Air and Space Power for the 21th Century, Air Force Scientific Advisory Board, 15th December, 1995. [24] Air Force 2025: 2025 Support Office Air University, Air Education and Training Command. Developed by the Air University Press Educational Services Directorate, Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama, August, 1996. [25] Pasternak, Douglas: The Pentagon's quest for nonlethal arms is amazing. But is it smart? U.S. News $\&$ World Report, July 7, 1997. [26] Osborne, William, B. (LTC), Bethel, Scott, A. (Maj), Chew, Nolen, R. (Maj), Nostrand, Philip, M. (Maj), Whitehead, YuLin, G. (Maj): Informations Operations: A new War Fighting Capability. A Research Paper presented to Air Force 2025, August 1996. [27] Information Strike/Knowledge Warfare: Shattering the Information-War Paradigm: Air Force 2025: 2025 Support Office Air University, Air Education and Training Command. Developed by the Air University Press Educational Services Directorate, Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama, August, 1996. Acknowledgements: The author would like to thank Walter Andrus (MUFON), Blanche Chavaustie (ACHES-MC), Leah Haley, Ed Light (Mind Control Forum), Lisa, Michelle, Willi Stumptner, Christa Tilton, Thomas Tulien (AFS/Dialogue), Katharina and Erik Wilson, Dan Wright, head of the MUFON Abduction Transcription Project and various MILAB victims and researchers who stay anonymous because of the sensitive topic of this study and my wife Marion for their help in this project. Victims and researchers who are interested in this study or have important information can condact the author at the following address: Dr. Helmut Lammer Postfach 76 A-8600 Bruck/Mur Austria Dr. Lammer has a Ph.D. in Geophysics and works at the Austrian Space Research Institute as a research scientist on various space projects like the forthcomming Mars Global Surveyor mission. He researches UFO and related phenomena during his freetime and wrote tree books related to the topic. He is the Austrian representative for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) and an associate member of the Society for Scientific exploration (SSE). Books by Dr. Lammer: UFO Geheimhaltung (UFO Secrecy), Herbig Munich, 1995. UFO Nahbegegnungen (UFO Close Encounters), Herbig Munich, 1996. Verdeckte Operationen (Covert Operations), Herbig Munich, 1997. _________________________________________________________________________ To respond and/or give feedback to an author, reply to his or her E Mail address. If you want us to consider your reply for public posting, you can send a Carbon Copy to us. We reserve the right to edit and post. UFOR articles are archived in http://www.Reference.COM. For any change in your UFOR participation, please, e mail me at d005734c@dc.seflin.org The most ample distribution of articles published in UFOR is highly encouraged as long as proper attribution and respect for the authors and participating lists expressed wishes, if any, are mantained, this include printed and electronic media, including for profit and non profit organizations. _________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 UFOR: List of over 100 'UFO Crashes' From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:38:48 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:34:48 -0400 Subject: UFOR: List of over 100 'UFO Crashes' From: A.J. Craddock <webmaster@cseti.org> A list of over 100 UFO crashes can now be found on the CSETI Website under "What's New". This is probably the most comprehensive list ever published, combining information from many public and protected sources, and includes events as recent as this year. Regards Tony Craddock Web Administrator CSETI http://www.cseti.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Remaking Ufology From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:07:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:01:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Remaking Ufology > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:12:07 -0700 > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > To: Updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: Remaking Ufology > Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared wrote: > > From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:50:04 +1000 > > Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:31:57 -0400 > > Subject: Remaking Ufology > > Greetings from Australia, > I certainly hope that widespread agreement among ufologists of the > various theories and charactieristics of the phenomenon is much, much > longer than this list. If we could develop such a list where most if not > all researchers conceded the items contained were facts we would have > some achieved something substantial that could be reverred by all those > doing the research. A sort of DSM III of ufology. > Does anyone know of anything like this in existance now? > Jared. Jared, A number of compendiums like you are proposing are in existence, why spend time re-inventing the wheel, over and over. Take a look at these for starters: NICAPs (Hall):The UFO Evidence - now available in a new reprint. James McCampbell: Ufology Gary Alevy Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | jared |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Aug 97 09:03:56 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:18:51 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Saucer Smear', Vol. 44, No. 7; August 5 Vince, >I have no complaint against you -- not since you 'fessed-up and >admitted that you have no more personal knowledge or expertise in >regards to validating the age of the AA "film" than any casual viewer >of the video. Somehow this ol' hillbilly redneck don't recall sayin' that. You uns sure I said that??? 'Course the word I hear is that you Texas cowpokes is jes as dumb as us Appalachian hillbillies. >Does you defensiveness on this topic mean that you consider yourself a >"salesman"? Far be it from me to dispute the word of an expert. Billy Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: On natural relationships and UFOs From: <awyn@cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:21:02 -0400 Subject: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs > Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:13:03 +1000 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Stuart & Toni <livesey@trump.net.au> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs > >Date: 19 Aug 97 09:36:25 EDT > >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs > >>From: "Chris Rutkowski" <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> > >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:28:52 CST > >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: On natural relationships and UFOs > >Chris, > >>Now here's an interesting conundrum. Any debunker worth his > >>or her salt knows that "Moon Madness" is a complete fiction and that > >>there is no scientific evidence to suggest that the Moon has any real > >>effect on us. Yet, if it could be shown that there was a correlation > >>between Moon phase and the number of UFO reports, it might help to > >>explain why people report UFOs if we assumed some sort of effect. > >I suggest that no correlation was found because the "researchers" > >who did these studies "knew" beforehand that there could be none, and > >so their research proved this. > >My information is anecdotal from psychologists, and suggests that all > >who work with the seriously disturbed know that there is a correlation, > >but don't talk about it much since it is considered quackery. > >Bob > While I am not involved in the mental health area, nor do I suffer from a > mental illness,I can comment on this because my ex-wife was and still is a > community mental health nurse in a large country town. Her duties included > attending to mentally ill people in crisis. These people were well enough > not to be hospitalised. Invariably her night-time call outs increased > dramatically if there was a full moon and dropped to almost nothing during > moonless periods. > Stuart Another anecdotal: This from my mother, aunt and several casual acquaintances (nurses working with the general population in hospitals): Significant difference noted during occurrence of full moon: more accidents (emergency cases), patients get "fussier", and some are "completely off the wall." ("I could tell you stories....") Have heard this often enough, from various sources over the years, to wonder if there's anything to it. Maybe no scientific evidence, but for these nurses/doctors, etc., it was a fact. Just my two-cents worth. Annie Search for other documents from or mentioning: awyn | livesey |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Aug 97 09:05:56 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:22:06 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 11:04:51 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' >Right on, Bob! >Regards, >Vince Huh??? We agree on something??? Gads, I must be wrong, then. Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Remaking Ufology From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:18:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:31:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Remaking Ufology > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:07:29 -0400 > From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Remaking Ufology > Jared, > A number of compendiums like you are proposing are in existence, why > spend time re-inventing the wheel, over and over. > Take a look at these for starters: > NICAPs (Hall):The UFO Evidence - now available in a new reprint. > James McCampbell: Ufology Not to mention Paul Hill's "Unconventional Flying Objects: A Scientific Approach". ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 25 Aug 97 11:30:25 cst Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:32:20 -0400 Subject: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' >From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net >Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 16:19:50 PDT >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: The Christian Coalition and 'Good Will' >Count me among those boringly nonparanoid folks >who doubt that it could happen here. And in the highly >unlikely event that it does, rest assured that Pat Robertson >won't be the guy in charge of it. [snip] >In real life Crazy Pat, who in the 1980s looked as >if he had some real muscle to flex in the >political arena, has the sort of public approval >numbers >that make Newt Gingrich appear a beloved >statesman by comparison. Consequently, he has >in effect crawled back under the rock from which >he slithered orginally. If any ufologists get stoned >to death, it's more likely to be from abuse of >substances than from rocks hurled by a >Crazy Pat freakozoid. >The best way to deal with guys like this is >to laugh at them. The worst way is the one >Bob advocates. Hi Jerry, Yes, Robertson is a nut. But don't dismiss him too easily. Through a brilliant but stealthy strategy, the Christian Coalition (under Robertson's control) for all practical purposes controls the Republican Party at the grassroots level. Local GOP precinct caucuses are getting creepy. It *could* happen here. Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 NY UFO's single frame capture From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:38:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:38:07 -0400 Subject: NY UFO's single frame capture Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:34:12 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: NY UFO's single frame capture Hiya Errol, hi All, I have been carefully analyzing single frames from the video I took on July 26,1997. I will release several of the more interesting frames when I am finished. Here's the first installment. These images are intended for the private study and edification of those who participate in the UFO UpDates list. They are not to be reproduced or republished anywhere else without my express written permission. sfc-1 Single frame capture #1 is the seventh frame of video from the beginning of the recording. It clearly shows the bottom of the craft as it passes overhead (to my left.) As you can plainly see there are no wings, no engines, and it was silent, no sound was heard as it passed overhead. sfc-2 Is an enlargement and enhancement of the original frame. I zoomed in on the unknown, marqueed around the image, (the box shape surrounding UFO) desaturated the image, (removed all color) and set the auto levels ( to enhance definition) What you see is what you get. It's a round shaped aircraft. There are other frames where you can see the 'top' portion of the craft. It turns out to have been two disc shaped objects (one right on top of the other) flying in a very tight formation together. For my friend Dave Rudiak, that strange 'distortion' field around the craft(s) is present and easy to see. (Ionization?) I hope that others with the software to do it, will perform their own analysis. If so, let me know what _you_ come up with. It's just so gratifying for me to have video images to present, no-one has to take _my_ word for anything! If I (hadn't) gotten them on tape in broad daylight I never would have reported publicly. All you have to do is use the mind and the eyes that God gave you. I'm telling you that these things are very real and they _are up there_ all anyone has to do is spend enough time looking up and _you will see them! I'm not unique, people are getting these things on video all over the globe. We need more eyes and cameras
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Corso & AA-film From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:32:23 +0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:39:22 -0400 Subject: Corso & AA-film Hi everyone. Has Col. Philip J. Corso, (Ret.) ever made any statement, or said anything about, Ray Santili's AA-film? Does it match his claimed memory of the "being" he saw in a glass-tube filled with blue liquid? The idea came as he also described the control- gear of the spacecraft as hands plunged into the direct "steel" of the crafts control panel, as seen in the "debrise-film". Copycat or coincidence? Jorgen Westman / WUFOC http://www.wufoc.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 UFO Videotaped At Fernald Uranium Processing Plant From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:31:49 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:15:49 -0400 Subject: UFO Videotaped At Fernald Uranium Processing Plant This final report by T.A.S.K. investigator Kenny Young was found at http://home.fuse.net/task/FERNALD.htm I have attached some of the pictures as files, and you'll find Young's preliminary report containing some additional information after the text. [I've received several complaints from subscribers who pay local tolls when connecting to their ISPs regarding attachments of images available on the Web. Since the 7 images are available at the TASK URL above they are not included with this post. Those subscribers who are Web-impaired and who would like copies of these files may request them via E-mail to UpDates. - ebk] "The Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge (T.A.S.K.) is a non-profit group dedicated to the study of UFOs and other 'unusual phenomena.' It is the group's intent to conduct investigations and research into these matters with the highest degree of scientific integrity." Enjoy! Stig ******* REPORT ON INVESTIGATION OF FERNALD UFO SIGHTING Initial lead While working a UFO exhibit at the Cincinnati Convention Center during March of �97, I was approached by a certain individual (more specific information on this person will not be disclosed out of respect to the wishes for anonymity which has been made clear). He advised me of a UFO sighting at the Fernald Uranium Processing Plant near Ross, Ohio. This informant, who we shall call Matt (Mysterious, Anonymous Tattle-Tale), claimed to have been an employee at Fernald in the months before and after the sighting. 1) Matt had been glancing at the table where still photographs taken from the CLERMONT COUNTY RECORDING were displayed. He pointed at one photograph of the triangular headlight arrangement and said, "It looked like this object." 2) I told him I was interested in the account and asked how I could get in contact for a follow-up, but "Matt" hesitated, and claimed to be afraid to give me a name. He advised that the UFO had been videotaped by a guard at the guardshack on NOVEMBER 24, 1994 (two weeks after the CLERMONT COUNTY RECORDING). He said that the situation was perceived as a security matter, and that the FAA was contacted and advised of the event. "Matt" also said that several people at Fernald knew about it, that it had been �hushed up' and people were instructed not to talk about it. He said I should make an FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) appeal with DOE (Department of Energy) to acquire the report on the incident. Also, "Matt" said that the videotape had been examined by the video personnel at Fernald. Still images on the recording had been �freeze framed' then xeroxed and distributed to a few people who had access to the records. �Matt� implied that he was one of those individuals. I provided �Matt� with a business card that included my address and phone number, and entertained high hopes that future contact might be made. For weeks I thought of the conversation, but felt my hopes languish as no further word of this strange tale came my way. Then suddenly, on Wednesday, May 14, I received an envelope displaying no name or return address. Inside was a word-processed letter which cryptically stated the following: location: the U.S. DOE Fernald Environmental Management Project (now called Fluor-Daniel Fernald) contents: stills of a security video camera Enclosed as an attachment was a large 11 x 17" sheet of paper bearing seven poor quality black & white images taken from a video camcorder. The date and time of the recording is tagged onto the video, and the information indicates the date as November 23, 1994 (the informant had earlier stated November 24) and the time listed is 5:48 a.m. The seconds are also displayed on the recording, and 5 of the images appear in reverse sequence, from top to bottom, based upon the arrangement of the digital clock so that the top image lists "AM - 5:48:10" while the bottom image lists "AM - 5:48:08" /Above: Still image captured from the videotape which was later acquired, computer analysis by Dale Farmer/ ((See 055344.jpg)) Of the seven pictures, four contain complete images, the other three either leave the page or are broken due to copier error. Two of the four clear images depict an object that resembles a lighted [luminous?] donut. This element could be an abberation created by the internal apparatus within the lense of the camera, and not a solid object. However, the relative sharpness of the "donut" images was also considered to be an artifact of the copier. Depending on the contrast setting of the copier used, diffuse edges are ignored and are filled in with either more "white" or more "black." This would not be, of course, an adequate analysis until review of the videotape could be conducted. INVESTIGATION On Saturday, May 31, I set off with an associate from a Cracker Barrel restaurant on Winton Road to proceed to the Fernald plant, intending to speak to a guard at the guardshack. The journey to Fernald was simply a fancy made on impulse with no prior planning. 3) Upon entering Ross, Ohio, we expected to find the Fernald plant easily, but took a wrong turn somewhere and got lost. Driving around for about 15 minutes, we found ourselves in Okeana and stopped at the Okeana Grocery Store to ask for directions. Inside the store, three passersby responded eagerly when asked for directions to Fernald. The clerk commented, "Just follow the glow." This was greeted by some laughter and more jokes until I had humorously added, "Well, actually, we're looking for UFOs anyway." "You may want to talk to some people at the Fire Department, I've heard they saw them," came the sober response. Although the clerk offered no specific details , he knew of information that could be acquired through the fire department. Directions were given and we found ourselves approaching the guard shack at the ominous Fernald Uranium Processing site. The guard remained seated in the small shack which was situated at the main entrance to the plant as we drove the car up to the door. When advised that we were investigating a reported UFO sighting in the area, the guard stated, "I know of a security guard who you may want to talk to. He's not here tonight, but he saw one. It flew over one night on third shift." The guard confirmed again that he had heard stories, and said, "I've heard about it, but I didn't see it. There was something that was supposed to have come over." When asked if there were any video recordings, the guard answered, "I'm not sure if there were or not." Plant 4 underwent safe shutdown, decontamination and dismantlement before being successfully imploded on Saturday, August 24, 1996. The guard suggested we contact Lieutenant Paul Disney, the supervisor in charge of security at FERMCO, the agency contracted by Fernald to furnish plant security. Suddenly aware that I was writing down this information, the guard became uneasy and more reluctant to talk: "Why don't you come back later and talk to them about it?" This second-hand information provided �soft' confirmation of a story first conveyed by "Matt," an anonymous whistle-blower who strangely told of his �fear� about involvement with a story that had been �hushed up.� HARD CONFIRMATION I had contacted Mr. DALLAS at Fernald Security and announced the nature of my call. According to Mr. Dallas, Lt. Disney was unavailable until Wednesday, June 4. Dallas knew of the UFO sighting but was unsure of a report filed on the incident. Dallas said, "The guys on third shift made a claim and a videotape of a UFO sighting." 4) When asked whether or not the information would be retained with Fernald or Firmco, Mr. Dallas said, "It's all the same," adding that the records would be accessible to the public. "If they kept anything, whether it be videotape or written reports, you would be able to get that." Dallas again suggested I contact Paul Disney, who could address my inquiries better. Thinking to take the �back door approach,� I placed a few phone calls to the main security gate several times and talked with the night-shift employees. One guard who answered the phone began laughing hysterically when I placed my inquiry. �Is this a joke?� he giggled as I sought to restore seriousness to the conversation. �Who is this?� he chuckled, and from that point on, the inquiry went downhill. The serious tone as I sought after was �down the commode� as I could sense tears welling up in his eyes from hysterical laughter. Ultimately, his silly conduct prevailed and I found myself somewhat humored by his giggly demeanor as well. A phone call the next evening was not as mirthful, however, as the receptionist taking my call �hung up� when I had asked for a certain guard by name. Perhaps it was understood that I would be calling... DISNEY SPEAKS Days later I finally contacted Lieutenant Disney, who also confirmed hearing of the UFO sighting and to have seen photos. Disney said that he had heard stories of a "ball or something in the sky" that was photographed, but didn't know what had become of the material. He said he had seen the photos "floating around" from time to time. 5) Disney deferred the call to Susan Walpole, the Public Relations Manager for Fluor-Daniel Fernald. Disney stated, "All such off-site inquiries will be handled by the public relations department. They want to be the ones to respond to any questions people have regarding an incident or anything that may or may not have happened." Disney wasn't sure how available this information would be. The cameras used by the security staff are fixed cameras, but are moveable and remotely controlled from a monitor room. The information is recorded by means of a time-lapse recording system. When asked, he responded that the guards "do not use video camcorders and do not bring camcorders to work with them." The Public Relations Supervisor, Susan Walpole, was then contacted, and said she would research the story for me. Taking my name and number, she assured a phone call would be returned. When asked what procedures she would use to research the story, Walpole said she would "find out from the video people and other people, who, if anybody, has the video and report," and added that it "was not in public affairs." She said she would make some phone calls to find out where it "exists on site." 6) The following afternoon, after awaiting a phone call that never came, I again contacted the Public Relations Department, where, not surprisingly, it was made clear that no videotape of a UFO over Fernald was officially retained, and the spokesperson added: �I don�t have any information for you.� 7) �The one guard who evidently saw it works on third shift and I left a message but he hasn�t called back.� She released the name of this individual (that will not appear in this text), who she said was the �witness to the incident.� The search inquiries were made with the communications center where no record of the event or video was said to exist, the multi-media visual ("the AV people"), where they reportedly searched their database and no video was found. A check was also made with three or four persons in security who equally did not claim to have the video. A phone call was again placed to Lt. Disney, where he was asked if I could acquire records and logs. He was also asked if I could make arrangements to speak directly with the security guard. Disney said, "Sure, he works on third shift though." I went on to add that I had made several late-night phone calls and couldn't reach him, and I would rather find out a good night to call. Disney stepped away breifly to check his schedule, then came back and said "Uh-oh, it looks like this gentleman will be on vacation for several weeks. He just took off." Continued Haggling Susan Walpole, Public Relations Supervisor of Fluor-Danile Fernald, was again contacted after a delayed response to my previous inquiries. She said that she had been making numerous inquiries with different persons, and still turning up negative results. 8) She checked for any AEDO reports (Assistant Emergency Duty Officer) which is a 24 hour office which fills out a log of any �off-normal occurrences.� These reports are routed to the duty officer who keeps a log of incidents. She also consulted with the person in charge of emergency operations center with no results (I inquired if this would have been perceived as an emergency situation, and she said, �I don�t think so�). She also checked the Fire & Safety log plus the SHIFT LOG. She assured that she would furnish me with the names of the people who were on duty during the event. Regarding the videotape, she didn�t know if the Fernald security systems embed a date and time stamp onto their video recordings, but said she would find out for me. She said that the Fire & Safety people retain a personal camcorder at all times, and they may be the ones who recorded the video. Overall, it looked as if nothing substantive would come of the Fernald story. PREVIOUS UFO SIGHTINGS A quick review of Fernald history revealed that an Unidentified Flying Object was reported over the FERNALD URANIUM PROCESSING PLANT on August 25, 1955. This event, witnessed by police Sgt. Ralph Weber, Patrolman Ernest Nehree and Patrolman Maurice Wiseman, was observed at 10:55 p.m. The �flickering red glow� over the atom plant was described as 'something like the exhaust from an airliner, which flickered.' The object reportedly would drop 100 to 300 feet and then go back up, sometimes darting 'side to side' like it couldn't stay stationary. The Cincinnati Post reported that the Atomic Energy Commission had launched an investigation into the matter. 9) On April 10, 1983, an unknown object was visually observed by two motorists and an area resident in the vicinities of Layhigh Road and Hamilton-New London Road, both near Route 748. A power failure and unusual animal response followed as the object then landed in a field. A 50-foot circular area of effected ground was discovered, its outer fringes were scorched and there were several broken branches found there, having been forcefully removed from a nearby tree. A 3-foot �burned area� was found at the center of the effected region. After meticulous research by Ron Schaffner and other investigators, this case remains unexplained. This location is 4.5 miles northeast of the Fernald facility. 10) Interview with the Security Guard After several weeks of patience, I thought it time to contact the security guard, thinking he may have since returned from his vacation. A 1:00 a.m. telephone call was made to the Fernald Security department, and a long talk with the primary witness finally made. The witness, also a part-time police officer, was willing to provide the tantalizing details of this mysterious event. 11) �I was just out on perimeter patrol enroute to stationary post, and there was this light in the sky that followed me,� stated the officer. �It looked like this thing had landing lights. When I turned, it turned, and just set there. It hovered east of my location, over the Hamilton parking lot.� "It first appeared to be about the same elevation as routine air traffic, it was going due south, and then when I turned west, this thing turned around and followed me, so then I thought this was a helicopter. I rolled the window down and didn�t hear any sound, so then I called the Control Center.� �Someone from the Control Center evidently swung their cameras around and was able to pick this up from a remote location. When 'The County' showed up, there were still photos of this thing that was given to them.� �The Hamilton County Sheriff�s Department was summoned to the scene by someone from the Control Center, and they talked to me in the Administration Building and also took a report.� The unidentified aircraft, described by the guard as a silent light which moved from north to south before suddenly hovering like a helicopter, performed a banking maneuver that could not be duplicated by conventional aircraft. According to the security guard, the object departed Fernald by lifting to a high elevation and hovering stationary in the sky, appearing as a star until well after daylight. Inquiries with Hamilton County 9-1-1 Dave Matthews, supervisor of the Hamilton County Communications Center, confirmed that the call was received and also furnished an �incident advisory� which states the time and nature of the call, plus the name of the two officers that handled the report. A notation on the log states: �strange sphere with strange lights sighted over Fernald.� 12) �This was just a routine call,� stated Matthews, �we get UFO calls all the time. I am just one of nine supervisors here, and on my watch, I�ve handled about 250 to 300 calls for UFO reports in Hamilton County since 1974,� informed the 9-1-1 supervisor. �UFO reports are considered a Priority 3, or routine, simply because such reports are not deemed emergency situations. If we had sufficient information that would warrant an emergency-type response, then we would upgrade the priority status of these type of reports, but at this time, we do not have such information,� Matthews said. /This image is of the reported phenomenon situated behind trees, which can be seen in the foreground/((See footage4.jpg)) The Videotape is Acquired Initially, persons at F.E.M.P. denied that a videotape of a UFO sighting over Fernald was actually retained or even made at the facility. But suddenly, at a staff meeting on Monday, July 1, the videotape finally surfaced. Arrangements were hastily made and the tape was hand-delivered by Fernald officials at the �badge-issuing trailer� on-site. �The reason we couldn�t find it the first time was because it was held by a D.O.E. official,� stated the cordial employee. /This was the graphic created by the F.E.M.P. video department, which tags and identifies the beginning of the videotape./ The videotape depicts a glaring light which shines toward the camera like a spotlight, only much brighter. Another videotape of the event was also recorded from a communications center camera, and it depicts an odd-looking light hovering in the sky, and then jump-cuts to the phenomenon as it hovers behind trees. Many voices can be heard saying, �Look at it, look at it!� and �didn�t it just move?� One person declares, �I�ve been working third-shift too long!� The images from the two cameras have been edited by the F.E.M.P. video department, and dubbed onto one videocassette labeled �Unidentified Object at the F.E.M.P.� The edited sequences are out of order, as per the time listed on the date-stamp within the video frame. There is some indication that there were other sequences not included on the video which had been edited out, based upon the gaps in the video date/time-stamp. Brief Reflections The 1994 Fernald UFO event happened during a spate of UFO sightings around the Cincinnati area. Two weeks prior, a Clermont County resident recorded a home-video of a triangular headlight configuration which performed an odd maneuver during a rain shower. Before that, a UFO was reported to the Forest Park Police Department by motorists near the Forest Fair Mall. Looking back over this affair, the most outstanding aspect isn�t an overflight of an unidentified flying object above this facility, it is the �hush hush� mannerism in which the incident was handled afterwards. The silence a byproduct not of a great secrecy machine, but moreso an offshoot of a convenient �file it away� approach assumed by Fernald and Hamilton County 9-1-1. The video, deemed valuable to UFO researchers and investigators, would furnish excellent material for analysis and computer scrutiny. The participants did not recognize neither the common proliferation of UFO material in our society in which certain interest may be gathered from this happening, nor did they acknowledge the apparent value of the recording in the hands of credible investigators. It found its place on a shelf somewhere, known only among those privileged few. This sort of event, if happening in the late 80�s, would have been an considered intrusive to the security of The United States due to the sensitivity of the Fernald operation. But more interesting was the look in the eyes of Matt, the mysterious informant who seemed to express fear upon the telling of this account, as he cryptically stated, �Let me just tell you, this is something I don�t want to get involved with.� 1. Victory of Light Psychic Fair held on Sunday, March 16, 1997 at the Cincinnati Covention Center, sponsored by Victory Books 2. The CLERMONT COUNTY RECORDING was videotaped on November 10, 1994 near U.S. Route 50 in Owensville, Ohio, and reported in The Cincinnati Post, The Middletown Journal and also on WXIX TV-19 News. The videotape depicts images of a triangular-shaped headlight configuration which may be explainable as common air traffic. However, there remain numerous questions about the maneuvers in progress as well as the computer analysis of the video, which left more questions than answers. 3. The Fernald Environmental Management Project (FEMP) is located about 18 miles northwest of Cincinnati, Ohio. Between 1953 and 1989, the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) facility, then called the "Feed Materials Production Center," produced uranium metal products for the nation�s defense programs. The FEMP�s products were used in production reactors to make plutonium and tritium at other DOE sites. In 1992, Fluor Daniel Fernald assumed responsibility for managing all cleanup activities at the FEMP under a contract with DOE. Formerly known as the Fernald Environmental Restoration Management Corp., Fluor Daniel Fernald is a subsidiary of Fluor Daniel Inc., based in Irvine, Calif. The Fluor Daniel Fernald company is composed of Fluor Daniel, Jacobs Engineering Group Inc., Haliburton NUS Environmental Services, and Nuclear Fuel Services. 4. Telephone contact on Monday afternoon, June 2, 1997 with Mr. DALLAS at Fernald Security (513) 648-5594 5. Telephone contact made on Wednesday, June 4, at 12:20 p.m. with Lieutenant Paul Disney, Fernald Security (648-5594) 6. Telephone contact made on Wednesday, June 4 with Susan Walpole, the Public Relations Manager 648-4026. 7. Telephone contact made on Thursday, June 5, 1997 8. Telephone contact made on Friday, June 13, 1997 9. The Cincinnati Post, August 26, 1955 10. MUFON UFO JOURNAL. Walter H. Andrus, Jr. Editor, August 1983, Number 186. 11. July 27, 1997 Phone call made to Security Guard whose name will be withheld for privacy purposes 12. Discussion at Hamilton County 9-1-1 Center, Saturday June 29, 1997 Report filed July 2, 1997 by Kenny Young For more information on Fluor Daniel Fernald, go to the following sites: http://www.gao.gov/AIndexFY97/abstracts/rc97063.htm http://www.everybodys.org/archive/416/media.html http://www.em.doe.gov/em94/cenfern.html http://enquirer.com/fernald/stories/021196c_fernald.html http://enquirer.com/fernald/stories/082396b_fernald.html http://enquirer.com/fernald/stories/021296c_fernald.html http://offo2.epa.ohio.gov/FACT1.HTM ******* T.A.S.K. (Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge) July 01, 1997 NEWS RELEASE: On the 50th anniversary of the controversial Roswell UFO incident, T.A.S.K. announces that it has unearthed the previously undisclosed details of a strange security situation happening at the Fernald facility at 5:45 a.m. on November 23, 1994. A 4-month investigation by T.A.S.K. researchers, based upon a mysterious tip from an anonymous informant, has resulted in the acquisition of a surveillance-camera videotape of an Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) that was recorded and witnessed by security guards on site at the Fernald Environmental Management Project (F.E.M.P.) The mysterious object pursued a patrol car driven by a FERMCO security guard who was on patrol. The unidentified aircraft, described as a silent light which moved from north to south before suddenly hovering like a helicopter, performed a banking maneuver that could not be duplicated by conventional aircraft, according to a security guard interviewed by T.A.S.K. researcher Kenny Young. The guard alerted the communications center, and the situation was deemed a security predicament. A phone call was then placed to the Hamilton County 9-1-1 dispatch center, where two officers responded to the scene. Dave Matthews, supervisor of the Hamilton County Communications Center, confirmed to T.A.S.K. that the call was received and also furnished an 'incident advisory' which states the time and nature of the call, plus the name of the two officers that handled the report. A notation on the log states: 'strange sphere with strange lights sighted over Fernald.' The video control center of F.E.M.P. remotely swung their surveillance cameras around and recorded the phenomenon. The videotape depicts a glaring light which shines toward the camera like a spotlight, only much brighter. Another videotape of the event was also recorded from a communications center camera, and it depicts an odd-looking light hovering in the sky, and then jump-cuts to the phenomenon as it hovers behind trees. Many voices can be heard saying, "Look at it, look at it!" and "didn't it just move?" The images from the two cameras have been edited by the F.E.M.P. video department, and dubbed onto one videocassette labeled "Unidentified Object at the F.E.M.P." The edited sequences are out of order, as per the time listed on the date-stamp within the video frame. There is some indication that there were other sequences not included on the video which had been edited out, based upon the gaps in the video date/time-stamp. According to the security guard, the object departed Fernald by lifting to a high elevation and hovering stationary in the sky, appearing as a star until well after daylight. The informant, who first advised T.A.S.K. investigator Kenny Young of the incident, feared for his job and safety when telling of this happening. Young was anonymously mailed xerox copies of certain prints retained from the video, and also advised to seek after a written report on the incident. Initially, persons at F.E.M.P. denied that a videotape of a UFO sighting over Fernald was actually retained or even made at the facility. Then, one week after informing Fernald that T.A.S.K. was aware of two officers with the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department who were given photocopies of the videotape, public relations spokesperson Susan Walpole announced that a videotape was located. The mysterious informant who tipped Young to the story assured that a written report on the incident was retained with the Department of Energy, despite repeated denials by Fernald that any such written documentation exists. A Freedom of Information Act petition will be drafted and forwarded to D.O.E. for any such reports on this occurrence. This sort of event, if happening in the late 80's, would have been considered intrusive to the security of The United States due to the sensitivity of the Fernald operation. A previous UFO sighting happened at Fernald on August 25, 1955. This event was witnessed by three police officers. The Cincinnati Post reported that the Atomic Energy Commission had launched an investigation into the matter. On April 10, 1983, an unknown object was observed by multiple witnesses in the vicinities of Layhigh Road and Hamilton-New London Road, both near Route 748. A power failure and unusual animal response followed as the object then landed in a field. A 50-foot circular area of effected ground remained, its outer fringes were scorched and there were several broken branches found there, having been forcefully removed from a nearby tree. A 3-foot 'burned area' was found at the center of the effected region. This location is 4.5 miles northeast of the Fernald facility. The 1994 Fernald UFO event happened during a spate of UFO sightings around the Cincinnati area. Two weeks prior, a Clermont County resident recorded a home-video of a triangular headlight configuration which performed an odd maneuver during a rain shower. Before that, a UFO was reported to the Forest Park Police Department by motorists near the Forest Fair Mall. The Fernald videotape is currently undergoing computer analysis by T.A.S.K. computer specialist Dale Farmer, and the results of his analysis and a complete report on this event will be posted at the T.A.S.K. web-site on July 2, 1997. http://home.fuse.net/task/ For further questions, contact: Kenny Young, T.A.S.K. - 513-351-4951, E-mail at: task@fuse.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 MUFON Press Release From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:21:15 -0400 Subject: MUFON Press Release The Mutual UFO Network 103 Oldtowne Road, Seguin, TX 78155 USA 210-379-9216 Contact: Bob Bletchman 860-675-6379 Larry W. Bryant 703-931-3341 August 11, 1997 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Government's UFO-related Pronouncements Renew Lessons Learned When history judges the quantity and quality of UFO-related information shared by Earth-based governments with their citizenry, how will the news media rate in the process? That question resurfaces from recent pronouncements by U.S. military/intelligence officials that some of their predecessors' UFO-reality denials, put-downs, and obfuscation's derived from a desire to protect secret projects like balloon-borne nuclear-blast detectors and spy-plane missions. The latest such pronouncement -- the spy-plane connection, as discussed in an article by "New York Times" science writer William Broad on August 3rd - amounts to nothing more than just another "'full, final, and complete disclosure' a la the kind that Iraqi officials issue whenever U.N. inspectors get too close to the truth about Saddam's hidden weaponry," explains Robert H. Bletchman. As MUFON director of public relations, Bletchman deals frequently with reporters seeking authoritative information on the UFO problem. "I like to remind them," he says, "of Dr. J. Allen Hynek's definition of 'unidentified flying object' as published in his 1972 book "The UFO Experience:" ". . . the reported perception of an object or light seen in the sky or upon the land the appearance, trajectory, and general dynamic and luminescent behavior of which do not suggest a logical, conventional explanation and which is not only mystifying to the original percipients but remains unidentified after close scrutiny of all available evidence by persons who are technically capable of making a common-sense identification, if one is possible." Ironically, astronomer Hynek had achieved at least 15 minutes of fame in 1966 when, as a consultant to the now-defunct USAF Project Blue Book, he felt compelled to explain a flurry of UFO sightings in Michigan as probably combusting swamp gas. Thenceforth, the American public in general -- and the news media in particular - -have shown less readiness to accept the government's UFO-related pronouncements. That turning point as regards official credibility has a correlate: the U.S. military's reliance on deceptive "body counts" in Southeast Asia to paint a picture of gradual U.S. victory in the Vietnam War. "In both the Michigan UFO case and in the Vietnam snafu, the media learned a valuable lesson: Always cast a critical eye at glib, undocumented, uncorroborated pronouncements by government officials," says Bletchman. "Now, with this C.I.A. claim that 'many' of the reported UFO sightings of the Blue Book era can be attributed to spy-plane activity, the media have another opportunity to relearn that same lesson." In the process, media people might find pay dirt in pursing such leads as -- * The whereabouts of (presumably still-classified) gun camera films of UFOs being chased by jet interceptors; * The alleged revelations contained in Army Lt. Col. (Ret.) Philip J. Corso's memoir "The Day After Roswell;" * The extent of columnist Jack Anderson's knowledge of, and sources for, the government cover-up of the UFO experience; and * Potential new evidence from yet-to-surface whistleblowers of Corso's caliber. Note: In retrospect, even today's officials would find it impractical to sift through the nearly 12,000 Blue Book cases to see which ones fall into the 50 percent supposedly caused by spy planes. Were he alive today, Hynek would dwell not on the intellectual killing field of Blue Book but on those "high strangeness" and "national-security implicated" cases that, according to USAF Brig. Gen C. H. Bolender, were steered past the Blue Book net into a dark repository -- sightings like those revealed by retired astronaut Gordon Cooper and USAF Lt. Col. William Coleman (a former BB official). Cooper's case dates back to 1957 at Edwards AFB, California, involving a disc that landed near a base film crew at the scene. Coleman's encounter occurred in 1955 while he and his flight crew ere airborne, coming within a few hundred yards of a strange craft. "As in the past MUFON directors, technical consultants, and field investigators worldwide stand ready to help the news media help us resolve the UFO problem," concludes Bletchman.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:27:21 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy In a message dated 97-08-25 12:18:53 EDT, you write: > Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:10:16 -0400 (EDT) > From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> > Subject: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy (Three Good Questions.) (Feedback) > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > Has any evidence of any kind been provided to establish that any of the > claims of Colonel Wilson are true? How about some documentation like DD Gee whiz <big grin at this point> I didn't think we needed verifiable documentation, after all we have no VERIFIABLE documentation that a group concerned with "UFOs\Roswell" was called MJ-12, (the verifiable "documentation only "proves" that their was a special meeting for the MJ-12 SSG scheduled after one of the NSC meetings during the Eisenhower administration. We don't know what that group in fact did. We still can't quite verify that the MJ-12 briefing document is true. But we can't "verify" that its a hoax either. *We can "verify" that their was a meeting with Pres. Elect Eisenhower in the Pentagon on Nov 18, 1952 because it was in the newspapers/public records etc. However there exists no verifiable record anywhere that says Eisenhower received a briefing from Roscoe on MJ-12. So one could say using MJ-12 logic "Well even if Col Steve's claims can't be proven with verifiable documentation/records, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. > 214, how he knows how many are being shot down, where he worked on Project > Pounce? Just what weapons are used to shoot them down? Where does the > wreckage go? Others who were involved? Claims come easy... like the false > opnes of Bob Lazar, Guy Kirkwood, Michael Wolf etc... Speaking of claims, don't forget Bill "I am working with the OSI on a UFO disinformation program" Moore, Gerald Anderson, Glen "I haven't been able to name the nurse/she can't be located" Dennis, Jim Ragsdale, and other Roswell witness who have changed their stories, sworn out new statements and or told new tales to new people. > A very skeptical > Stan Friedman I am sure that Stan would totally understand why people are just as skeptical of the MJ-12/Roswell claims as he is of Col. Wilson's. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Behind American Computer Co. From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:01:00 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:28:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computer Co. >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 16:04:17 -0700 >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Behind American Computer Co. >So what exactly is the story with American Computer? >http://www.american-computer.com/ >Mr Schwartz confirmed the rumor that a break in had occurred at their >offices a short time after the data was posted on their web site. He >stated that a door had been completely ripped off it's hinges and that >the surrounding motion sensors had been trashed. Mr Schwartz went on to >say that after OSI had made an investigation of the break-in they >specualted that it may have been a result of the data on the website. Obviously the work of amateurs. Smashing a motion sensor is pointless as it will have already picked up the movement and triggered the alarm. Even if the detector could be destroyed without detection, the circuit relay would drop out, once again triggering the alarm. Dave Everett.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Crop Circle Connector #40 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:33:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:31:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Crop Circle Connector #40 Welcome to the Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #40 (2) Members = 2174 What's New on the Crop Circle Connector at:- http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html Monday 25th August 1997 ******************************************************** The Crop Circle Connector at this moment in time, is relying on good friends to help us bring you the latest images, and Mpegs of the formations. The Crop Circle Connector is entirely financed by ourselves but we are finding it increasingly difficult to be able to afford equipment to make our life easier, and more independent. We are asking our Mailing List if they would be so kind to supply a small donation for us to purchase an A5 Flat Bed Scanner, so that we can independently scan our images ourselves, without having to relay on other people. The A5 Scanner is 150 [Pounds Sterling] in total. Please, can you help us? ********************************************************* New Report of Circles at Compton Dando, North Somerset. Report from Stuart Dike (yours truly), with photographs to follow shortly. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ******************************************************** New Formation at Isle Brewers, Taunton. Dumbell formation in Wheat. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ******************************************************** New Formation at Bratton Nr Westbury, Wiltshire Report by Brian Boldman, with Four new images http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ******************************************************** New Formation at Offham Nr Lewes, Sussex The Third in Sussex in 1997 New report by Barry Reynolds. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ******************************************************** First Formation in Canada, at Raymore. Full report, with update on 19th of August by Paul Anderson Two new diagrams included See International Crop Circles 1997 http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/1997/inter97.html ******************************************************* Updated link to German Crop Circle News 1997 http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/1997/inter97.html ****************************************************** New formation at Cuxton, Nr Rochester, Kent Report by Andrew B King New Aerial photograph http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html ***************************************************** New report on the Buckland formation. By Andrew B King http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html Very Comprehensive! ***************************************************** New Report on the Strange Attractor, Hackpen Hill in Wiltshire. By Stuart Dike. New diagram included. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html **************************************************** New image of Etchilhampton 4, Nr Devizes Wiltshire http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html **************************************************** New report and diagram of Long Handborough/Coombe in Oxfordshire. *************************************************** New diagram at Toot Balton, in Oxfordshire report. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html *************************************************** New diagram at Middleton Cheney, North Hants report http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html *************************************************** Whitchurch formation updated with additional report by Freddy Silva, on the features of the design. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html *************************************************** Earlswood, Nr Solihull report updated, with additional report by Antony Harding. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html *************************************************** Fosbury Hill Fort formation, Wiltshire. Additional report by the CPRI Team. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/1997.html *************************************************** Annoucement from Glen in the Netherlands on an up and coming TV Dutch Programme on the Crop Circles. See International Crop Circles 1997 http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/1997/inter97.html ************************************************** Programme included for the London, Westminster CCCS Conference. COSMIC COMMUNICATIONS THROUGH TIME Past Present and Future. August 30th 1997 ************************************************** All the best Stuart & Mark * The Koch Fractal, Silbury Hill, 1997 :/\: .-- --. . :\ /: . *__/\__/ \__/\__* :\ /: ./__ __\. Mark Fussell: ':\ /:' mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk .'__/ \__'. \ / Subscribe: :/_ __ __ _\: news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles * :\/: \ / :\/: * . :/ \: . The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: .-- --. http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html :\/: *
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Remaking Ufology From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:06:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:37:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Remaking Ufology Gary Alevy wrote: > From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:07:29 -0400 > Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:01:16 -0400 > Subject: Re: Remaking Ufology > > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:12:07 -0700 > > From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > > To: Updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: Remaking Ufology > > Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared wrote: > > > From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > > > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:50:04 +1000 > > > Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:31:57 -0400 > > > Subject: Remaking Ufology > > > Greetings from Australia, > > I certainly hope that widespread agreement among ufologists of the > > various theories and charactieristics of the phenomenon is much, much > > longer than this list. If we could develop such a list where most if > > not all researchers conceded the items contained were facts we would > > have some achieved something substantial that could be reverred by all > > those doing the research. A sort of DSM III of ufology. > > Does anyone know of anything like this in existance now? > > Jared. > Jared, > A number of compendiums like you are proposing are in existence, why > spend time re-inventing the wheel, over and over. > Take a look at these for starters: > NICAPs (Hall):The UFO Evidence - now available in a new reprint. > James McCampbell: Ufology > Gary Alevy Thanks Gary, I have made several inquiries about such compendiums that contain very basic information like the items I cited in my last post and have so far come up zero. I'll review the two sources you mentioned. Jared. Search for other documents from or mentioning: jared | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 25 Men In Black Vehicles From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:09:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:38:31 -0400 Subject: Men In Black Vehicles Does anyone have any information on what the classic "men in black" are found to be traveling in these days? The reason is, I do believe I had a run in with these guys last night. It's a long story, but if ANYONE has ANY information, it would be greatly appreciated. Clint Stone Assoc. St. Director Ky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: Behind American Computers From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:49:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 01:10:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computers > So what exactly is the story with American Computer? > http://www.american-computer.com/ > American Computer is a New Jersey based company. I spoke to an > employee. > A man by the name of John Schwartz that works in administration. He > informed me that a man currently employed by AC used to work for Bell > Labs in the 60's. The information on AC's web page about the transistor > breakthrough possibly being the result of backengineering projects > came from this AC employee whom Mr. Schwartz claims wishes to remain > anonymous. Mr. Schwartz wanted to make it very clear that neither the > anonymous employee making the claims nor anyone else in the company > was aware of retired Colonel Philip Corso or any of the statements he made > about Bell Labs at the time the company released the information on > their website. In fact Mr. Shwartz was also unaware of the book and > asked me how he might retrieve a copy. In response, I gave him the name > of the publisher. Apparently they had first heard about Corso after > their posting. They received several faxes from people making inquiries > or wishing to add information. At least some of the contacts came from > Phoenix. Schwartz said they had been contacted by the New York Times > and he mentioned Ed Wang . (See info on UFC from Stig Agermose) > Mr Schwartz confirmed the rumor that a break in had occurred at their > offices a short time after the data was posted on their web site. He > stated that a door had been completely ripped off it's hinges and that > the surrounding motion sensors had been trashed. Mr Schwartz went on > to say that after OSI had made an investigation of the break-in they > specualted that it may have been a result of the data on the website. > More information is pending > Jared. Corrections to previous data and new information concerning American Computer Company. In a follow up conversation with the VP of administration. Apparently there was a letter from ISO accussing AC of posting false data soley with the intention of drawing people to it's website. I've been able to determine that the speculation concerning the break-in of AC's offices did not originate from the OSI but from members of AC itself. Apparently members of OSI did not divulge any theories surrounding the nature of the break-in. There have been NO THREATS of any kind towards AC by members of the military or the intelligence community. The mystery faxes that appeared to contain classified data that AC received after posting the data on their website were placed in the hands of Air Force investigators and no duplicates were kept by AC out of concern for violating national secrecy laws. The VP did not wish to provide any names of the investigating members of OSI at this time. The contents of the faxes were not divulged other than that they contained data that appeared to be of a classified nature. The VP did mention that he and others at AC were indifferent towards anonymous faxes not wishing to speculate on whether the information contained in them was authentic or not. Another correction to previoiusly posted inaccurate information is as follows: The individual employed by AC was not previously an employee of Bell Labs but allegedly had a "domestic" connection with an individual at Bell Labs that was overseeing the projects in question. Allegedly they lived in the same house together several different times. This cryptic response to my inquries was all that was forthcoming. The exact nature of their relationship is being witheld out of concern for the anonymity of the AC employee. If I can get them to go on the record I'll post it here otherwise the off the record testimony is worthless at this point. My correspondance with Ed Wang (formerly of the New York Times) revealed that he is operating as a disinterested party. Mr. Wang has been able to collect quite a bit more information of this incident than I have. Mr Wang's overall opinion is one of apprehension concerning any assumptions of what his data may or may not reflect at this point and his opinion of ufology's "traditions" is much the same as any reporter that writes for highly respected publications in that UFO researchers tend to allow their subjective speculations to run away with them during the course of investigating cases; however, he has attested to the fact that he is "new" to this field of research and may not be aware of all the details surrounding the science. He states that what he has been able to verify so far certainly warrants a more detailed investigation. He gave me the impression that he is resonably impressed with what he has been able to learn about the nature of the AC employee. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Question for Linda Cortile From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 01:14:05 -0400 Subject: Question for Linda Cortile Linda, On page 300 of Witnessed, Budd refers to your son's testimony pertaining to the the diving helmet the third man had given to him. In one paragraph it says your son would have had to have been a trained actor to have come up with such a story and repeated in the way he did. While doing a filmography on one my favorite actors I ran across a name that leapt off the screen at me: "Jon Napolitano." He is listed as Player #3, in the film "Two Bits," starring Al Pacino. By some strange coincidence is the Jon Napolitano in this movie your son? If so, cool. Did you get to meet Al Pacino? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: Men In Black Vehicles From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:51:28 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:47:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Men In Black Vehicles >From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:09:01 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Men In Black Vehicles >Does anyone have any information on what the classic "men in black" are >found to be traveling in these days? The reason is, I do believe I had a >run in with these guys last night. It's a long story, but if ANYONE has >ANY information, it would be greatly appreciated. >Clint Stone >Assoc. St. Director >Ky/MUFON Hi Clint, There was a report from Linda Howe on Art Bell's program just a couple of week ago that reported in a recent MIB encounter they were driving a black Lexus with a long whip antenna on the rear bumper. The antenna was most likely a 108" low band whip, which is the norm for a lot of govt. agencies. Regards, Michael Curta Colorado MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: Corso & AA-film From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Aug 97 07:43:21 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:52:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso & AA-film >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:32:23 +0300 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: Corso / AA-film >Hi everyone. >Has Col. Philip J. Corso, (Ret.) ever made >any statement, or said anything about, Ray >Santili's AA-film? Does it match his claimed >memory of the "being" he saw in a glass-tube >filled with blue liquid? >The idea came as he also described the control- >gear of the spacecraft as hands plunged into >the direct "steel" of the crafts control panel, >as seen in the "debrise-film". >Copycat or coincidence? >Jorgen Westman / WUFOC >http://www.wufoc.com Hi Jorgen, I don't know what Corso has said, if anything, about the film. Corso can't make up his mind about how many fingers the aliens he saw had. In one place it's four, in another it's six. Personally, I found myself having a real sense of deja vu when I read Corso's book, since he was saying, practically word for word things which were posted over the last three years on the old Encounters forum on CompuServe. I think he, or more likely his co-author, hung out there and collected info which was later quilted into the fabric they were weaving. I think some of us who were heavy posters on that forum ought to be getting a percentage of the royalties on this book!! I don't know what to make of Corso. I want to ask him who the AA cameraman is, since if he is who he says he is, he will know. But my attempts to get to him have been met with evasion so far. For what it's worth, I asked Ray to ask "Jack" about Corso, and get him to read Corso's book. Ray says that "Jack" did read it. According to Ray, "Jack" responded that Corso is a complete fraud, and that there was no person by this name involved in the project, and that the book is complete nonsense. Of course this is sort of a case of an anonymous pot calling a questionable kettle black! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: Corso & AA-film From: DONFEII@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:19:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso & AA-film >Date: 26 Aug 97 07:43:21 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Corso & AA-film >Hi Jorgen, [snip] >For what it's worth, I asked Ray to ask "Jack" about Corso, and >get him to read Corso's book. Ray says that "Jack" did read it. >According to Ray, "Jack" responded that Corso is a complete fraud, >and that there was no person by this name involved in the >project, and that the book is complete nonsense. Of course >this is sort of a case of an anonymous pot calling a questionable >kettle black! >Bob As far as Lt. Col. Corso is concerned, I encountered his name quite a while ago in connection with a Southern Calf. MIA-POW group headed up by 101st Airborne Div. veteran John Pagel. It was in connection with secret testimony before Congress with what was then a defector General Officer from the now defunct WARSAW Pact. They were testifying on the fate of over 900 American POW's never returned from the Korean Conflict. Checking on Corso, I discovered what a highly placed guy he was. At that time mostly that he had been on President Eisenhower's National Security Council. Now of course we know much more. 54-57 on Ike's NSC, 57-61 commanded a NIKE nuclear missle group in West Germany, and in 61 being assigned to the Pentagon in Army R & D. I guess the bottom line is .....SCREW 'JACK'...... One might ask just who in Hell is he? Hiding behind Ray Santilli sending cryptic messages every so often via Ray? The research community is supposed to buy that? I orginally took the AA story to Bob Kiviat after finding out about it from British UFO researcher Philip Mantel. Kiviat, way back then, was supposed to speak to 'Jack' - it never happened. Mantle and Hesseman were supposed to speak to 'Jack' - NEVER HAPPENED. The only person to ever speak to 'Jack' was Santilli, and Ray is a proven liar. He lied to me personally. Who cares at this point? Corso and his background can be checked and was checked. He is who he says he is. In the Sept/Oct issue of UFO Magazine, the mag. published in the U.S., has an extensive interview with Bill Birnes, Corso's co-author. The question of the 4 vs. 6 fingers is explored and explained. In the next issue we are getting together with Corso to hear and report, first-hand, his story. As I said months ago, if I had to buy anyone's story I would be more likely to warm up to Corso, just because of who he is. There is a preview of the new issue of UFO Magazine going up on our website. Drop buy and take a peek. Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: Corso & AA-film From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:46:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:13:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso & AA-film >Date: 26 Aug 97 07:43:21 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Corso & AA-film >>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:32:23 +0300 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >>Subject: Re: Corso / AA-film >>Hi everyone. >>Has Col. Philip J. Corso, (Ret.) ever made >>any statement, or said anything about, Ray >>Santili's AA-film? Does it match his claimed >>memory of the "being" he saw in a glass-tube >>filled with blue liquid? [deleted text] >Hi Jorgen, >I don't know what Corso has said, if anything, about >the film. >Corso can't make up his mind about how many fingers the >aliens he saw had. In one place it's four, in another it's six. >Personally, I found myself having a real sense of deja vu when I >read Corso's book, since he was saying, practically word for word >things which were posted over the last three years on the old >Encounters forum on CompuServe. I think he, or more likely his >co-author, hung out there and collected info which was later >quilted into the fabric they were weaving. I think some of us who >were heavy posters on that forum ought to be getting a percentage >of the royalties on this book!! You are probably on the right track. My understanding is that Corso forwarded notes to Birnes, who then wrote the actual text of the book. The impression I have gotten from one researcher who has spoken with him is that Birnes added a lot to the story that Corso had not written or intended. As you know, it is difficult to get a publisher to make changes in the text, even if it is inaccurate, unless there some fear of legal entanglement. If Birnes forwarded his finalized text on to the publisher, without letting Corso review it first, that might explain some of the inconsistancies that now seem so apparent. >I don't know what to make of Corso. I want to ask him who the AA >cameraman is, since if he is who he says he is, he will know. But >my attempts to get to him have been met with evasion so far. >For what it's worth, I asked Ray to ask "Jack" about Corso, and >get him to read Corso's book. Ray says that "Jack" did read it. >According to Ray, "Jack" responded that Corso is a complete fraud, >and that there was no person by this name involved in the >project, and that the book is complete nonsense. Of course >this is sort of a case of an anonymous pot calling a questionable >kettle black! Of course the only connection between the Santilli "alien" and Roswell is "Jack's" description of it as the Roswell alien, and Ray's desire to use that event as a marketting tool. The AA crash site is west of Socorro, which is many miles from the sites mentioned by nearly all other Roswell witnesses. Since "Jack's" alleged involvement was in the 1947 to 1951 time frame, and Corso's was around 1960-61, I don't know why one would have actually heard of the other. Corso might have run across a file with some of the names of those involved in the recovery, but the other material I'm not sure why he would have bothered with it. Corso wasn't trying to research the event, as he already knew what had been found, but he wanted to "seed" US technology with some of the advanced "alien" artifacts. Since Corso claims to have seen picures of the "Aliens" (and I believe some autopsy reports as well), I would like to make sure he has seen the AA film and hear his comment on it (which may already have been done). But unless one is willing to throw out various sections of testimony of the alleged event and support only one scenerio, we are faced with several major crashs over the period of a month in June/July, 1947. It really depends on how much of the witness testimony one is willing to accept. If you're willing to accept it all, then that two month period must have been very exciting and we merely need to find the current location of all the "junk" that fell out of the sky that year. Search for other documents from or mentioning: steve | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: Corso & AA-film From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:05:46 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:17:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso & AA-film >Date: 26 Aug 97 07:43:21 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Corso & AA-film >>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:32:23 +0300 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >>Subject: Re: Corso / AA-film >>Hi everyone. >>Has Col. Philip J. Corso, (Ret.) ever made >>any statement, or said anything about, Ray >>Santili's AA-film? Does it match his claimed >>memory of the "being" he saw in a glass-tube >>filled with blue liquid? >>The idea came as he also described the control- >>gear of the spacecraft as hands plunged into >>the direct "steel" of the crafts control panel, >>as seen in the "debrise-film". >>Copycat or coincidence? >>Jorgen Westman / WUFOC >>http://www.wufoc.com >Hi Jorgen, >I don't know what Corso has said, if anything, about >the film. >Corso can't make up his mind about how many fingers the >aliens he saw had. In one place it's four, in another it's six. >Personally, I found myself having a real sense of deja vu when I >read Corso's book, since he was saying, practically word for word >things which were posted over the last three years on the old >Encounters forum on CompuServe. I think he, or more likely his >co-author, hung out there and collected info which was later >quilted into the fabric they were weaving. I think some of us who >were heavy posters on that forum ought to be getting a percentage >of the royalties on this book!! >I don't know what to make of Corso. I want to ask him who the AA >cameraman is, since if he is who he says he is, he will know. But >my attempts to get to him have been met with evasion so far. >For what it's worth, I asked Ray to ask "Jack" about Corso, and >get him to read Corso's book. Ray says that "Jack" did read it. >According to Ray, "Jack" responded that Corso is a complete fraud, >and that there was no person by this name involved in the >project, and that the book is complete nonsense. Of course >this is sort of a case of an anonymous pot calling a questionable >kettle black! >Bob Hi Bob, Jorgen, To the best of my knowledge, Corso has never stated that he was aware of the alien autopsy film during his involvement in alien technology projects while in the US Army. This should not come as a surprise to anyone, because the AA film was allegedly made in the late fourties, while Corso's involvement in the dissemination of alien technology to Fortune 500 companies started allegedly in the early sixties. Besides that, his involvement was in alien technology, like parts of the wreckage, while the biological make up of alien bodies is another discipline. The only thing Corso has said about the film was that the aliens in the Santilli film looked like the alien he had seen. The issue about the fingers has been addressed here before. To spread the word that Corso is a fraud at this stage is killing off a potential high level witness of a caliber that is scarce in this field. Bob, if I were you I would keep trying to reach Corso. Why add another episode to one of the longest running gags in Ufology: "Clean up the house and throw the baby away with the bathwater." __________________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \___________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: UFO Videotaped At Fernald Uranium Processing From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Aug 97 13:07:16 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:18:11 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Videotaped At Fernald Uranium Processing >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:31:49 +0200 >Subject: UFO Videotaped At Fernald Uranium Processing Plant Thanks, Stig, I went to the site and looked at the photos. One, with a light background, looks like nothing more than common lens flare. The ones against the dark backgrounds are just blobs, and you really can't tell anything about them. The first one, the only one of a clear doughnut shape, is definitely weird, and that section of the tape bears more study. However, if this was one event late at night, how come some of the video has a light background as you would see in daytime shooting?? This report creates more questions than it answers. I hope TASK will make high quality video dupes available for study. Bob Shell Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Alfred's Odd Ode #173 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:11:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:19:50 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #173 Apology to MW #173 (For August 26, 1997) At the risk of rejection, and ire, or spite. I have to make mention -- have to put up a fight. Two weeks inculcation, and I've had it shoved tight. And it's all from the dark, and retreats from the light! I know what you want him to turn out to be. He was something he's not, and you're never set free. Just a sneering buxom lip that held promiscuity, And he fooled with soft eyes that brought all to their knees. Charismatic and casual he lived like a prince With a belle at his side all entranced and convinced. How many poor girls lost their hearts in an instance That tickled your Elvis where he felt an insistence. Yeah, and be sure that I'll talk about Kings! If they rock, or they rule, or they slide on a ring. I'm the center of the cosmos, my own, that's the thing! Elvis ain't worthy, all he did well was sing! Elvis was a sociopath, with an entourage of vermin? He was their source of power, complete and crafted german? He had the *best* of everything, a shoe valet named Hermann? How many was it went without to see his smirkin' squirmin'! I don't have a quarrel what he touches inside you. What he makes come alive=85how he cheers when you're blue=85 Written humble you're thinking he played good and true=85 But reality is that he ate you like stew. Graceland is a monument to those that buy the merchandise. Keepers keep the works and movements like a pair of loaded dice. They contracted proxy murder at behest of Elvis, twice! How many contracts, not undone; did people die like mice? What was Elvis really, but a white man, not uptight? Didn't Elvis take a black thing -- steal black creative light? Little Richard was the truth, but tried too white with all his might! Elvis was a white man; he didn't even have to fight. And a paragon of Fair Play, that was the Colonel Parker? Elvis was a thoroughbred and well groomed for Parker's Markup. The history of relationships with Parker somewhat darker. But money flowed, you bet on that, with motive even starker. And what did Elvis do so strictly _his_ creation? What came from Elvis _only_ that can fill you with elation? And what poems did _he_ write that would inspire your temptation? What pictures did he paint from, well, _any_ inspiration? Just a slapping and a tickle was all he had for you. And the watchers cannot get it as he truly was untrue. He really was a hound dog, in bed with Nixon too. Pissing on the Beatles, cause *true* greatness made him blue. Lehmberg@snowhill.com "They said you was high class." "Well, that was just a lie." "They said you was high class." "Well, that was just a line." "Well, you had nothing for me [Daddy], and you [weren't] no friend of mine"! You and J. Edgar must be having a ball together at the "Ranch," Elvis. Sorry Elvis Fans -- but respectfully, your legend has a hairy purple wart (a kind of cancer) on its nose. *Pat Boone* has more credibility! Without a corn cob up his butt he could have eclipsed Elvis easily -- HE WAS WHITER <g>! -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake for humming Beatle tunes. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 "I'm concerned (when all I have _ever_ been is a productive, honored citizen), that I could be thumped by one of these superfunded agencies (that could squash me like a bug) for constructively speaking my mind in a _free_ society. If my fears have ANY validity, then we are not living in that free society, and my life long DIRECT, and documented support of it is a sham, a hypocrisy, and a tragedy." ~~~ Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the CIA.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:58:20 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:40:02 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:42:02 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > In a message dated 97-08-25 12:18:53 EDT, you write: > > Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:10:16 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> > > Subject: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy (Three Good Questions.) (Feedback) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > > Has any evidence of any kind been provided to establish that any of the > > claims of Colonel Wilson are true? How about some documentation like DD > Gee whiz <big grin at this point> I didn't think we needed verifiable > documentation, after all we have no VERIFIABLE documentation that a group > concerned with "UFOs\Roswell" was called MJ-12, (the verifiable > "documentation only "proves" that their was a special meeting for the MJ-12 > SSG scheduled after one of the NSC meetings during the Eisenhower > administration. We don't know what that group in fact did. > We still can't quite verify that the MJ-12 briefing document is true. But > we can't "verify" that its a hoax either. > *We can "verify" that their was a meeting with Pres. Elect Eisenhower in > the Pentagon on Nov 18, 1952 because it was in the newspapers/public records > etc. However there exists no verifiable record anywhere that says Eisenhower > received a briefing from Roscoe on MJ-12. > So one could say using MJ-12 logic "Well even if Col Steve's claims can't > be proven with verifiable documentation/records, it doesn't mean it didn't > happen. > > 214, how he knows how many are being shot down, where he worked on Project > > Pounce? Just what weapons are used to shoot them down? Where does the > > wreckage go? Others who were involved? Claims come easy... like the false > > opnes of Bob Lazar, Guy Kirkwood, Michael Wolf etc... > Speaking of claims, don't forget Bill "I am working with the OSI on a UFO > disinformation program" Moore, Gerald Anderson, Glen "I haven't been able to > name the nurse/she can't be located" Dennis, Jim Ragsdale, and other Roswell > witness who have changed their stories, sworn out new statements and or told > new tales to new people. > > A very skeptical > > Stan Friedman > I am sure that Stan would totally understand why people are just as > skeptical of the MJ-12/Roswell claims as he is of Col. Wilson's. > Cheers, > Robert For Robert: Is Colonel Wilson a colonel? Was he in the military? What basis is there for his claims? I haven't asked for proof.. just some evidence. Crash at Corona and TOP SECRET/MAJIC and my 108 page Final Report on Operation Majestic 12 provide evidence. The "colonel" has made claims but presented no evidence. There is a difference. Skeptical Stan Friedman Search for other documents from or mentioning: fsphys | rgates8254 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: "I Met An Alien" - RAF Chief From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:27:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:41:40 -0400 Subject: Re: "I Met An Alien" - RAF Chief >Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:11:16 +0930 >From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: "I Met An Alien" - RAF Chief Well it made the British press today in "The Sun" August 26th Alien told RAF chief: I want to see Prince. An ex-RAF chief claims he was contacted by an alien - who begged him; "Take me to your leader Prince Philip". Sir Peter Horsley, 76 who held a top defence post as Deputy Commander-in-Chief of Strike Command - says his close encounter took place in a London flat. He claims the alien - human looking with grey hair - had amazing telepathic powers. he called himself Mr Janus. Sir Peter, who was an equerry to Prince Philip at the time, says in a new book: "He told me 'I would like to meet the Duke of Edinburgh'". Sir Peter, who says the 'man' could read his thoughts asked why. The alien replied: "He is a man of great vision". In the book 'Sounds From another Room', Sir Peter claims the 1954 meeting was set up by a retired general. The old soldier told him UFO's were being sent to warn us of the perils of a nuclear war. Sir Peter never revealed details of the meeting to the Duke, who he claims is "open minded" about extraterrestials. So there you have it two weeks after the rest of the world was told, we get the "old" news. There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:47:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:47:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:42:29 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: In the interest of truth Hi All, I had a disturbing experience this week-end. A sighting of multiple bright objects at fairly close range. (1/4 mile to 1/2 mile away) I spoke to a couple of close friends about it and I was just going to keep my mouth shut because there were elements to it that (aside from the wierdness of the sighting itself) were wierd. I realized, after much soul searching, that I cannot 'edit' my experiences conveniently or report 'selectively' just because I don't want folks thinking that I'm crazy. I can't just report the stuff that's safe. I mean stuff that's already known about and kind of accepted. The 'wierd stuff' has to be related/exposed as well, my 'public image' be damned. It's false ego to selectively report one thing and not another because it may shock people or, make me look like a complete nut. I make no judgements or put any interpretations on this. I don't understand it myself. In fact the whole thing left me feeling quite unsettled and disturbed, I haven't had a decent nights sleep for days. Saturday afternoon at about 4:00 PM I was in my backyard with my wife Margie , my daughter Jeanine, and my (almost 2) grandson James tyler. I was playing my guitar, my wife was resting in a lawn chair and my daughter and grandson were playing golf with a plastic set that I had purchased for James tyler. It was for me a deeply personal and gratifying few moments. I was basking in the warmth and love of my family. It was a rare 'peaceful' moment. It was time to eat so everyone started into the house, I was holding the door so I was the last to enter. As I write this I almost wish to God that I hadn't looked up, but I did. I have attached an illustration of what I saw. I yelled into the house at my wife to run upstairs to my office and bring my camera, I didn't want to take my eyes off of them for a second. As I waited for Margie to arrive with the camera, I noticed that several of the white dots that were suspended under a dark cloud had manouvered into a position that replicated the constellation of Orion! Just as I realized what was so 'familiar' about the formation the lights began to wink out one by one in sequence. In seconds they were gone. I sat in my yard for another three hours with a pair of 7x35 binoculars and my Pentax 35mm camera. I had three more sightings of single objects traversing the skies overhead but they were all so high in altitude that they could only be observed through the binoculars. One of the most striking of these was a green luminescent oval shaped craft that I got a good clear view of. I fired of some photos but I don't expect much from them, the objects were just too far up to be seen naked eye. There were more on sunday. three sightings of bright white lights flying mostly from west to east within a three hour observation period. I tried in vain to get a second pair of eyes on em but the guy I had contacted was busy and couldn't come, (although I know he wanted to!) There it is people. A sighting of at least twenty 'objects' in two days, the "Orion" configuration, and that green thing. It left me rattled. I went from a perfectly peaceful family centered moment to a live performance of, "UFO's Are Real!" I haven't been able to sleep, it left me wired. I'm also afraid that they may come at night if I fall asleep. It's not for me that I fear but for my Margie. I don't want her frightened or upset anymore. I
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 26 'Out There' by Howard Blum From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:53:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:59:53 -0400 Subject: 'Out There' by Howard Blum Howdy folks... I just finished this book a week ago and found it to be an excellent overview of this UFO phenomenon as of some seven years ago. While working on the central theme of a secret deep Pentagon group rehashing the truth of UFO's for the government, Blum worked a few parallel stories into the book that illuminated major aspects of our relationship to UFO's. Though not one of the more important sections, I found his writings on Philip Klass particularly informative. Blum reveals Klass's interest in debunking UFO's to be a pronounced case of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. This permits me to be somewhat more tolerant of Klass's efforts, if not his manipulative and pejorative style. Now the real reason for my posting this. Last week while discussing ways to more legitimize the study of UFO's, Rebecca mentioned while discussing Howard Blum that he learned he had been lied to about some of the subjects of "Out There" and had become disenchanted with the issue of UFOs. As you can imagine, this has left me intensely curious with what Howard Blum may have learned and what parts of "Out There" are now suspect. Would Rebecca or anyone else be able to share the details with us? Thanks... Ted..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Corso & AA-film From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Aug 97 21:23:45 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 07:17:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso & AA-film >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:05:46 +0200 (MET DST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Corso & AA-film Henny, I'm not attacking Corso. I don't know what to make of him. I do find it suspicious that some parts of his book appear to be lifted lock stock and barrel from old forum posts, though. I passed on the bit from the AA cameraman because I thought it was funny. And I said I was passing it along "for what it's worth", which in this case probably isn't much. They're probably both just old frauds. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Men In Black Vehicles From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 07:19:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Men In Black Vehicles >From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:09:01 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Men In Black Vehicles >Does anyone have any information on what the classic "men in black" are >found to be traveling in these days? The reason is, I do believe I had a >run in with these guys last night. It's a long story, but if ANYONE has >ANY information, it would be greatly appreciated. >Clint Stone >Assoc. St. Director >Ky/MUFON One of the Abductees with whom I have talked, says he encountered MIB's on more than one occasion. He said they drive black Cadilacs. I don't know if all of them do or not, but this group did. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 yetanotheruforeport From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 21:49:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:18:01 -0400 Subject: yetanotheruforeport 9:47 PM 8/26/97 - West Columbia, Texas Just came in from taking the dogs out. Was in my dark spot at the end of the building gazing up. Saw usual sky but noted something seemed odd here, the pattern of the stars directly overhead seemed out of place. Then, a few moments later one of the stars started moving quite fast towards the south. I am facing due east and looking straight up. The moving star was at about 80 degrees off east by where I stand. Those who have visited me will know the spot. Continuing, the moving star moved in an arc of about 30 degrees toward the south and came to a full stop. It was still there as I came in. Going back out now to look. If anything, I'll report. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Further findings of Project MILAB (Article From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:19:27 -0400 Subject: Further findings of Project MILAB (Article From: Blue Resonant Human <density4@cts.com> Re: the recent MILAB post, Martin Cannon (author of the seminal mindcontrol monograph entitled _The Controllers_) replies: - - - - - > 2.) MILABs have "not only" alien abduction experiences, they > report that they were kidnapped by a certain branch of human/ > military personnel, they were drugged, taken to hospital like > rooms and (under)ground military facilities, they saw men in > white lab coats, they were examined, interrogated and sometimes > implanted with military devices. I wrote to Lammer and asked him if he could assure that these stories came from uncontaminated sources -- that is, from folks who had not read "Controllers." I got no such assurance. > The Canadian psychiatrist and specialist on trauma and > dissociation, Dr. Colin Ross, presented a paper at the 9th > Annual Western Clinical Conference on Trauma and Dissociation > in Orange County, California [6], where he showed that he > encountered evidence from released CIA-FOIA documents that the > agency did research on the creation of Manchurian candidates > since World War II. Dr. Ross and research organisations like > the New York based Advocacy Committee for Human Experiment > Survivors-Mind Control (ACHES-MC) also came across survivors > of horrific experiments involving electroshock, drugs, brain > implants, sensory deprivation, psychic driving, locked in > cages, forced sleep and sexual and ritual abuse.[7,8] Once > selected, victims have been used as human lab animals > repeatetly--some of them have been used throughout their > lifetime in one externally controlled and monitored experiment > after another. L'Affair Mullens, the Montauk debacle, and the O'Brien/Phillips con-artistry have taught me to be wary of all who tell such stories. For Lammer to speak of such accounts as though they were hard-and-fast realities -- as opposed to mere testimony from dubious sources -- is simply irresponsible. Apparently, much of the info was derived from Kathy Kasten's crony, Blanch Chavoustie. Is this a reliable source? Are we also to include tales of "Satanic" mind control? Of "Illuminati" and "Masonic" mind control? Just what are the standards for credibility here? > ACHES-MC delivered in 1997 a video-document to president > Clinton and the Canadian prime minister Chretien where they > requested a presidental hearing and declassification of > government records related to alleged mind control experiments > conducted on unwitting children and adults and funded by the US > government from the 1940ies onwards. In this videotape are > statements by both alleged survivors of nonconsensual federally > funded mind control experimentation as children or adults, and > also therapists, psychiatrists and psychologists.[8] Does this testimony include the statements of proven liars like Claudia Mullens? Have any of the statements been looked at CRITCALLY? Has Lammer looked for any hard evidence suporting the claims, or does he take them at face value? How many of these people have been exposed to my work, and to the lies of Cathy O'Brien and Mark Phillips? > It seems to me that the first group is interested in mind > and behavior control experiments. I found evidence of > sensory deprivation experiments, liquid breathing experiments, > experiments on electromagnetic stimulation of the temporal > lobes, brain research and implant research. > > The second group seems to be interested in biological and/or > genetic research. Some MILAB victims recall that they saw > humans in tubes filled with liquid and genetically altered > animals in cages during their kidnappings inside military > underground facilities. It should be noted that alien abductees > "without" military contacts remember similar scenarios inside > UFOs. Christa Tilton provides perhaps THE classic case of this type. I know her very well. Alas, I would not consider her testimony sound. Her psychological history does not inspire credibility. (To say the least.) Alas, Christa's story has been widely heard. > The third group seems to be a military task force, which operates > since the eighties and is interested in the UFO/alien abduction > phenomenon for information gathering purposes. This would be a > logical consequence if one with the right "Need to Know" considers > that some alien abductions may be real. It seems to me that the > leaders of this military task force think that some alien > abductions are real and that they have national security > implications. It could be that the second and third group work > together, since they could share their interest in genetic > studies and findings from alleged alien abductees. The above is all rank speculation. Lammer draws his conclusion from unverified (and perhaps unverifiable) testimony. Even if we grant (momentarily) that these people have testified honestly as to what they have perceived, and even if we hypothetically admit that the experiences described have some basis in fact, we must admit that the perceptions of the percipients have been skewed by the experience itself. So how can one come to ANY valid conclusions about the motives of the abductors? > Michelle and a boyfriend had a missing time/kidnapping experience > during 1970 near a campsite at Ditch Plains in Montauk, New York. > She remembers that both were taken by armed military personnel to > the now closed Montauk base. They were separated and Michelle > was escorted inside an underground facility where she had several > frightening experiences.[9,10] The "Montauk" books by Nichols, Campbell, and Beilek are a combination of paranoia, delusion, and outright buncombe, written by irrational people who rely on trance channelling. Yet they have received a great deal of publicity. Obviously, before taking Michelle's testimony seriously, one would first have to determine whether she first had been exposed to the dubious claims made by Bielek and co. Did Lammer bother to interview Michelle's family members, to see whether the woman was talking about Montauk BEFORE Bielek hit the lecture circuit? Probably not. Unless we can rule out the possibility of witness contamination, this story has limited value. To tell the truth, it has value only insofar as it reveals Lammers low standards of evidence. > Michelle remembers that someone was writing something on the > skin behind her ear. After this she got an intravenous (IV) > injection, she feeled a prick in her arm and loses consciousness FIRST she gets an IV, and THEN she gets a shot? But why? If one already has an IV bag in place, then the abductors already possess a means to drug someone into unconsciousness. A further needle- stick is not necessary. > The next hypnosis session opened further traumatic flashbacks of > being in an isolation tank. The following experience was > investigated during an emotional hypnosis regression session. > Michelle had never had this experience while under hypnosis > before. She recalled being in a dark place, she was afraid and > floated in something that felt slightly heavier than warm water.[9] Ah. So this story all came out under hypnosis. Who administered the hypnosis? Someone who already believed in MILABs? If so, then the possibility of contamination and confabulation will always haunt this case, and rob it of any probative value. What were the credentials of the hypnotist? > I researched the literature of sensory deprivation experiments > and came across such isolation tanks which were invented by Dr. > John Lilly.[11] As we say in the States, Dr. Lammer: Well, DUH. Every literate person knows about Lilly and sensory deprivation tanks -- his work even inspired the popular movie "Altered States." Lammer needed to do RESEARCH to find out about Lilly's involvement in this field? Jeez -- would he need to do "research" in order to discover that a guy named Edison had something to do with the invention of the light bulb? > It should be noted that Dr. Lilly experimented also with brain > implants during the late fifties and early sixties. This was > also the period when he was contacted by covert intelligence > services and researchers for the Department of Defense (DoD). > Dr. Lilly wrote in his book "The Scientist" that while he was > at the National Institute of Health, the isolation tank-work, > like the brain-electrode work, became subject to the politics.[11] Lilly's self-serving recollections in that book should be reviewed critically, if you ask me. > Dr. Lilly was convinced that the military/intelligence community > would use his isolation technique for covert experiments.[11] I > think, that Michelle's experiences show us that this was true and > that there is enough evidence that she is one victim of such a > deprivation tank experiment. OR -- to make a point which SHOULD be obvious -- perhaps Michelle read my monograph (widely available on the net and elsewhere), which talks about Lilly and his work in mind control! Perhaps she even read Lilly's own works, which are widely available and written for a popular audience. Why does Lammer insist on taking this woman's (hypnotized) word as gospel? Why does he refuse to check for the possibility of contamination? > It could be possible that Andree was drugged with a halluzinogene > and projected the reptiloid as a kind of screen memory, although > she described the skin and other features of the creature very > well. Is it Michelle or Andree? Careful, Dr. Lammer. You're letting your pseudonyms slip. > A research target would get a helm or tong-like device on the > head and an artificial generated magnetic field would mimic the > firing patterns of neurons in the temporal lobes of the brain. I'd say there is quite a difference between a helmet of the Persinger sort and a pair of "tongs." Perhaps we have encountered a language problem here. > In 4 cases abductees described large clear tubes and recalled > either being placed inside it or seeing someone else inside. > Two of these 4 abductees saw an alien creature in the tube. Dan > Wright's files reveal 3 cases in which the abductee was in a > tank filled with liquid and in two cases the victim was forced > to breath the liquid! This last comment would be particularly interesting -- IF we could be assured that the "breathable liquid" reports were collected BEFORE the release of James Cameron's film "The Abyss." Another obvious question: Were the other testifiers exposed to any talks or writings by Christa Tilton? > If one reviews the open scientific literature which is available > about fluid breathing, one finds that physically taking fluid > into the lungs and breathing liquid instead of air would > revolutionize diving. This paragraph is all very interesting -- but as noted, "The Abyss" made the information about breathable liquid available to a wide public. The film may have inspired skewed memories, especially in a subject who has been sloppily hypnotised. > Recent scientific studies of visual and photographic sightings of > UFOs carrying out "impossible" high speed maneuvers by Dr. Bruce > Maccabee would support such gravity force compensation tube > experiences if the abductee was indeed in a real UFO.[18] This is pure speculation. We're talking here about the same Bruce Maccabbee who champions Ed Walters, right? > MILAB victim Christa Tilton described such an experience as: A-HA. So Christa is indeed one of the testifiers here. Christa also says that her daughter was sired by an alien. At least, she has said that in public. She privately admitted to me that she met the father of her child in a bookstore. > Christa Tilton is not alone with such an experience. There are > other abductees who claim that they were taken to military > underground facilities where they have seen people in such > glass or plastic tubes.[19] True, but are these women merely drawing from Christa's well? > It would be logical for someone who is interested in cloning > that he develops and uses artificial wombs and incubators > filled with nutrient fluid for breeding purposes. Scientists > who are working on biotechnology projects claim that cloning > "brainless" humans for transplanting organs would be a reality > in the future.[2] At the time ethical considerations are > against such Frankenstein like research projects. > > A more science fiction like purpose would be the creation of a > genetically engineered soldier who is immune to biological > warfare and possible future genetic warefare attacks. The > experiences of some MILAB victims, however, suggest that such > projects are indeed going on behind the backs of the official > medical research community. Therefore it could be that secret > research on artificial wombs and experiments on human fetuses > are going on hidden inside black projects. Yes, yes, this is all very interesting, Dr. Lammer. But you are missing one important point. WHY ON EARTH would the abductors show these fetuses to women like Christa Tilton? Christa's story is that she was taken from her vehicle, dragged off to an underground base, given a spectacular guided tour of the tanks, the babies, and so forth -- and then brought back the world outside. But WHY? I've asked this question of Christa herself, and she has no answer whatsoever. > I present now a case where it seems to me that a secretly > operating military task force could be in charge of researchers > of such a black genetic project. This is one well investigated > case in the MUFON Abduction Transcription Project files where > human/military personnel kidnaps a woman from her house and > drives her to a secret place.[14] She is carried into the > building and placed onto an examining table. Her feet are > placed into stirrups, what is used for gynecological examinations. > A female doctor conducts a gynecological exam. > > She searches for an embryo but never finds any. The MILAB > victim remembers the officer in charge as an older man with > silver hair who threatens and interrogates her. She loses > concisiousness sometime during the examination or on the trip > back to her home. Interestingly the military always kidnaps > her on the same night or the night after an alleged alien > abduction experience. This strikes me as a good case. But Lammer refuses to deal with the obvious questions: How much of this testimony was derived during hypnosis? How qualified was the hypnotist? Had the percipient been exposed to similar stories previously? What is the percipients mental state? Does she use drugs? > MILAB sceptics who claim that the results of this study are > rubbish [22] should look into recently declassified Air Force > studies [23,24], scientific proceedings for law enforcement > and military technologies and news articles concerning exotic > weapon research.[25] Heh heh. If dear old Victoria Alexander (citation 22, above) wants to know about non-lethal weaponry, she need merely ask her husband. I am not a skeptic of the proposition that implants and such exist. But their existence does not in and of itself lend credibility to a percipient's claim. Many "mind control" claimants are just as capable (perhaps MORE capable) of doing research than is Dr. Lammer. Via the mail, the library, the net, and especially private lists, they pass along all sorts of information and misinformation. For this reason, in assessing any individual claim, the key question concerns CONTAMINATION. More than once, I have encountered individuals who will concoct a fantasy based on something she (usually it is a she) has read. Thus, when Lammer exclaims: "This testimony corresponds with what we find in the published scientific literature!" -- my response is: "So what?" ANYONE can read that literature. > An other interesting paper concerning "Information Warfare" is > classified and only people with appropriate security clearances > get a copy from the Defense Technical Information Center in Ft. > Belvoir, Virginia.[27] One can read in the abstract that this > paper explores holographic image projection, cloaking devices > and multispectral camouflage which will provide enhanced > military deception capability. The most promising technology > is the creation of synthetic environments that an adversary > thinks are real! They write further that research for PSYWAR- > operations is done to influence a target by using holographic > image projection with messages conveying the desired effect. > One should again ask who the adversaries and test targets are > during these research projects? This is a VERY good point. We've already had some hint as to the research being done in these areas in the Keivet/Metz "Revolution in Military Affairs" paper. > Therefore, I think there is a need for some individuals to test > the above mentioned technologies on unwitting subjects, since > these research is hidden behind deep black projects, only certain > people with the right "Need to Know" would really know whats > going on. This is also the main problem for organisations who > push for congressional hearings concerning such experiments on > humans, secret genetic research and military involvement in the > alien abduction phenomenon... No, the main problem of people pushing for such hearings are the incredible claims made by people like Claudia Mullens, Cathy O'Brien, Al Beilek, and so forth. These problems will continue until advocates like Lammer take a CRITICAL view of their informants -- and until they start giving us PROOF, rather than mere TESTIMONY. If illegal experimentation is indeed going on, then it goes without saying that the perpetrators would never discuss the matter unless forced. But there would have to be a paper trail somewhere, I would think. It is also interesting and confusing that most MILAB victims claim that they saw alien beings and human military personnel side by side. Such claims, however, should be carefully investigated and need more research before one concludes that alien beings and military personnel work together. We end with a genuinely responsible statement by Dr. Lammer. Thank you and good afternoon. -- Martin Cannon _________________________________________________________________________ To respond and/or give feedback to an author, reply to his or her E Mail address. If you want us to consider your reply for public posting, you can send a Carbon Copy to us. We reserve the right to edit and post. UFOR articles are archived in http://www.Reference.COM. For any change in your UFOR participation, please, e mail me at d005734c@dc.seflin.org The most ample distribution of articles published in UFOR is highly encouraged as long as proper attribution and respect for the authors and participating lists expressed wishes, if any, are mantained, this include printed and electronic media, including for profit and non profit organizations. _________________________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Question for Londa Cortile From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:16 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:23:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Londa Cortile >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:58:53 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Question for Linda C. Hi Errol and everyone! Rebecca wrote: >Linda >On page 300 of 'Witnessed', Budd refers to your son's testimony >pertaining to the diving helmet the third man had given to him. In >one paragraph it says your son would have had to have been a >trained actor to have come up with such a story and repeated in >the way he did. >While doing a filmography on one of my favorite actors I ran across >a name that leapt off the screen at me: "Jon ----------." He is listed >as Player #3, in the film "Two Bits," starring Al Pacino. By some >strange coincidence is the Jon ---------- in this movie your son? >If so, cool. Did you get to meet Al Pacino? >Rebecca Rebecca: Just like the 'Witnessed" case and a life filled with coincidences, my son takes after me! Yes, in 1992, my younger son John, gave testimony pertaining to the divers helmet the third man had given to him. It's true, he would've had to be a trained actor to have come up with such testimony and repeat it the way he did. However, your question gives me a chance to tell every- one about a cute little coincidence, which is only one of many others. "In 1994, at lunch-time, John sat quietly in the school cafeteria eating a meatball sandwich I had prepared for him that morning. Unknowingly, a couple of casting directors walked through the lunchroom (with mother superior's permission, of course). Later that day, when John came home from school, he handed me an envelope from mother superior. I'd thought that John set the mice free from their cages again, into the teachers lounge. John swore, up and down that he didn't do anything wrong and he couldn't understand why he was sent home with this letter. When I opened the letter expecting a complaint, I was pleasantly surprised! The letter explained that these casting directors were on a national search for new children to play in a movie entitled, "Two Bits," starring Al Pacino. I'm proud to say that my pretty boy, John, was chosen to play a small role in the movie. He played, one of many children growing up during the depression era. His role entailed that of a little boy playing baseball in the street with four other boys. When one other boy hit the ball, it lands on a neighboring roof top. John's role was for him to yell out: "YOU ROOFED IT!" Three words...I wish there were more, because John is as intelligent, as he is handsome (a younger James Dean look alike). Although my son is no Humphrey Bogart, he had the time of his life and a first time opportunity to rub elbows with Al Pacino and others!!! I hope his life's coincidences will be as pleasant as the one I've just explained to you. Unlike mine. <G> Now I have a question for you, Rebecca. Since you've used my family name on a public forum, knowing full well how I fought for years to protect the privacy of my family and me, I wonder Rebecca...has your skepticism fogged up your ethics and values? Linda
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Question for Linda Cortile From: pwedel <pwedel@neptune.on.ca> [Paul Wedel] Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 20:05:21 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:23:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Linda Cortile >>From: XianneKei@aol.com >>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:58:53 -0400 (EDT) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Question for Linda C.Linda, >On page 300 of Witnessed, Budd refers to your son's testimony pertaining to >the the diving helmet the third man had given to him. In one paragraph it >says your son would have had to have been a trained actor to have come up >with such a story and repeated in the way he did. >While doing a filmography on one my favorite actors I ran across a name that >leapt off the screen at me: "Jon Napolitano." He is listed as Player #3, in >the film "Two Bits," starring Al Pacino. By some strange coincidence is the >Jon Napolitano in this movie your son? >If so, cool. Did you get to meet Al Pacino? Dear (original) author of this message, Perhaps UFOUpdates is not an appropriate forum for this kind of message. However innocently intended, it's wording seeks to remove her family's anonymity. In a business wrought with people who seem to enjoy attacking and hurting each other, it seems unwise to ask this question in the manner that it was asked. respectfully concerned, Paul.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: 'Out There' by Howard Blum From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:25:23 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Out There' by Howard Blum From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:53:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:59:53 -0400 Subject: 'Out There' by Howard Blum > As you can imagine, this has left me intensely curious with what > Howard Blum may have learned and what parts of "Out There" are now > suspect. Would Rebecca or anyone else be able to share the details > with us? I THINK it was mentioned that he thought he had been led down the primrose path, so to speak, concerning the Working Group. I have not spoken directly with Howard Blum, but have an acquaintenance who is in contact with him, who reported this to me. It's been at least 5 years since I read the book and frankly, I don't remember specifics about it. Blum is said to be working on some science ficiton scripts. Next time I speak to my friend, I will try to get more information. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: 'Out There' by Howard Blum From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:27:26 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Out There' by Howard Blum From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:53:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:59:53 -0400 Subject: 'Out There' by Howard Blum > As you can imagine, this has left me intensely curious with what > Howard Blum may have learned and what parts of "Out There" are now > suspect. Would Rebecca or anyone else be able to share the details > with us? I THINK it was mentioned that he thought he had been led down the primrose path, so to speak, concerning the Working Group. I have not spoken directly with Howard Blum, but have an acquaintenance who is in contact with him, who reported this to me. It's been at least 5 years since I read the book and frankly, I don't remember specifics about it. Blum is said to be working on some science ficiton scripts. Next time I speak to my friend, I will try to get more information. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: UFOR: More Information on American Computers From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 01:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:29:37 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: More Information on American Computers From:ExposeUFOs@aol.com Via: Starfriends List By: Jared Anderson American Computer is a New Jersey based company. I spoke to an employee. A man by the name of John Schwartz that works in administration. He informed me that a man currently employed by AC used to work for Bell Labs in the 60's. The information on AC's web page about the transistor breakthrough possibly being the result of backengineering projects came from this AC employee whom Mr. Schwartz claims wishes to remain anonymous. Mr. Schwartz wanted to make it very clear that neither the anonymous employee making the claims nor anyone else in the company was aware of retired Colonel Philip Corso or any of the statements he made about Bell Labs at the time the company released the information on their website. In fact Mr. Shwartz was also unaware of the book and asked me how he might retrieve a copy. In response, I gave him the name of the publisher. Apparently they had first heard about Corso after their posting. They received several faxes from people making inquiries or wishing to add information. At least some of the contacts came from Phoenix. Schwartz said they had been contacted by the New York Times and he mentioned Ed Wang . (See info on UFC from Stig Agermose) Mr Schwartz confirmed the rumor that a break in had occurred at their offices a short time after the data was posted on their web site. He stated that a door had been completely ripped off it's hinges and that the surrounding motion sensors had been trashed. Mr Schwartz went on to say that after OSI had made an investigation of the break-in they specualted that it may have been a result of the data on the website. More information is pending Jared. 163 ************************************************************ This message posted by: ExposeUFOs@aol.com ************************************************************ Send "subscribe starfriends <e-mail address>" to majordomo@esosoft.com to subscribe. For a digest version, send "subscribe starfriends-digest <e-mail address>" to the same address. Change the above to unsubscribe to leave. ************************************************************ Starfriends Site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/3870/ ************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: In the interest of truth From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:31:55 -0400 Subject: Re: In the interest of truth > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:42:29 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> > Subject: In the interest of truth > Hi All, > I had a disturbing experience this week-end. A sighting of multiple bright > objects at fairly close range. (1/4 mile to 1/2 mile away) I spoke to a > couple of close friends about it and I was just going to keep my mouth shut > because there were elements to it that (aside from the wierdness of the > sighting itself) were wierd. > ... > I yelled into the house at my wife to run upstairs to my office and bring > my camera, I didn't want to take my eyes off of them for a second. As I > waited for Margie to arrive with the camera, I noticed that several of the > white dots that were suspended under a dark cloud had manouvered into a > position that replicated the constellation of Orion! Just as I realized > what was so 'familiar' about the formation the lights began to wink out > one by one in sequence. In seconds they were gone. > I sat in my yard for another three hours with a pair of 7x35 binoculars and > my Pentax 35mm camera. I had three more sightings of single objects > traversing the skies overhead but they were all so high in altitude that > they could only be observed through the binoculars. One of the most > striking of these was a green luminescent oval shaped craft that I got > a good clear view of. I fired of some photos but I don't expect much from > them, the objects were just too far up to be seen naked eye. > There were more on sunday. three sightings of bright white lights flying > mostly from west to east within a three hour observation period. I tried in > vain to get a second pair of eyes on em but the guy I had contacted was > busy and couldn't come, (although I know he wanted to!) > There it is people. A sighting of at least twenty 'objects' in two days, > the "Orion" configuration, and that green thing. It left me rattled. I went > from a perfectly peaceful family centered moment to a live performance of, > "UFO's Are Real!" I haven't been able to sleep, it left me wired. I'm also > afraid that they may come at night if I fall asleep. It's not for me that I > fear but for my Margie. I don't want her frightened or upset anymore. I > don't give a rats ass what they do with me as long as they leave her and my > kids alone. ... > John Velez, alien bauble Hello John, If a non-abductee like myself can give any advice, it would be to keep in mind how commonplace it is for abductees to have multiple sightings -- continued sightings every few days, weeks or months, while negative skeptics will have none. This way the UFO people can maintain their coverup amongst these skeptics, who without second thought will assume that you and all the others in your boat are mistaken or loony. The last thing they will want to consider is that the aliens are smart enough to have planned things this way. They are leaving it up to you and other abductees and multiple UFO sighters to spread the word in a way that won't force skeptics to believe what they still aren't capable of handling mentally. These negative skeptics are only capable of assuming that ETs would only randomly or accidently show their spacecraft to witnesses, since they do not wish to ascribe much intelligence to aliens if they exist. But there's no need for you to make any of their assumptions. I don't think your latest sightings were all that weird, relatively speaking. The aliens are almost always creative and coming up with new ways of presenting their craft. But as to your chief concern, I of course can't help you. If future UFO abductions are to occur within your family, you know darned well there's nothing you can do to prevent it (IMO, unless you wish to try the protective bright white light imagery or meditation). So to whatever extent you can simply accept it, report it after the fact like you've been doing, etc., and try to be as non-apprehensive as is possible. You know the saying that goes something like: Do what you can to make things turn out for the best, but accept the inevitable that is outside of your control. So if or when it comes to the totally inevitable event, do whatever you can first to counsel your family to try to shrug off fear, which then serves no good purpose. Keep up your postings; I and others on this list appreciate hearing from first-hand witnesses like you and Linda and some others. Jim Deardorff "The word of a witness is worth thousands of words of denial by non-witnesses."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Old movie rerun From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:42:20 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:35:48 -0400 Subject: Old movie rerun ** High Priority ** Just on a lighter track....... This weekend I rented the entire "V" series, and did a marathon session in front of the "Goggle Box". Probably addled my brains in the process, but.... What struck me most wasn't the deplorable acting, or the dated special effects, but rather the fact that the entire series started coming across as a massive training video! A "What to do when aliens take over" type of thing. I got the distinct impression that there was a measure of a hidden message in this film, definitely more so than in more artistically and technically correct films with a similar theme that I have seen. The concept of a reptoid alien with a human skin-covering is obviously a bit far-fetched, but what about the symbolism here? That reptilian aliens are using our planet as a source of food and water under the guise of certain human or human-sanctioned operations? That certain humans have "sold out" our planet in return for technology? That we aren't THAT far away from a "Fourth Reich" type of New World Order, sponsored and controlled by alien forces? Maybe I've just read too much Branton and Cooper..... Maybe John Velez has more of a right to be apprehensive than most of us imagine. Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za +27 12 311-2668 082 923 6144
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 UFOR: Miitary helicopter pursued in Pouso Alegre, From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:37:49 -0400 Subject: UFOR: Miitary helicopter pursued in Pouso Alegre, From: Dan <geibdan@qtm.net> This was sent to me at UFO Folklore at http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html. Miitary helicopter pursued in Pouso Alegre, Minas Gerais state, BRAZIL By: Alexandre Minoru Ito geoni@aquaserv.aquarius.com.br In the last year our research team was notified about a very interesting case envolving an Military helicopter model Panter. It belongs to I ComAvEx (primeira Companhia de Avia=E7=E3o do Ex=E9rcito - "1st. Flight= Company of Brazilian Army), placed in Taubat=E9. The witness is a cameraman, and he authorized the publication of this case only now; that's why we are showing now to the public. In that helicopter was a mecanic-sargent, a capitain (the pilot),the cameraman and some soldiers (all the names are ommited for safety reasons). In may, 1995, this helicopter was in training mission in the region of Pouso Alegre city, in the south of Minas Gerais state, Brazil (this city is close to Varginha...). At 11:30 p.m., approximately, an Unnidentified Flying Object (UFO), long egg-shaped, very brilliant and with some coloured spots on the tips and sizes. It was in the front of the aircraft, which was at 300 ft. of altittude, and it started to illuminate the aircraft with its spots. All the scene was recorded by the cameraman into the helicopter. The pilot got instructions to change his route, and that's what he did; but the UFO returned to the front of the military aircraft, in collision route. The pilot change his route again, and they was pursued by the UFO for approximately five minutes. All the military in the helicopter was very nervous, and then the UFO disappeared just in the front of everybody. The VHS videotape vas requested by the pilot, and he put it into his pilot suite, and when they returned, he carried out with it. Nobody knows where is this tape at this moment. But a picture of the helicopter is attached here, and also a picture of the cameraman (of course, his face is smudged). That's obvious: the militaries are very worried about the UFO question. What kind of object was that, wich pursued an Military helicopter (it was unarmed), "played" with it and flew away? Nobody into the I ComAvEx want to discust the case: nobody "knows nothing". But, if it really was not an UFO, why the videotape was taken? Dan: This is a case researched by the GEONI team. The witness (the cameraman) is reliable, seroius and don't have any problems with his family. The only thing that I can tell is his innitials: Jos=E9 A. I'm translating more cases happened in our region. Soon, we wil send you more cases. Thanxs Alexandre <>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<= >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<> _________________________________________________________________________ To respond and/or give feedback to an author, reply to his or her E Mail address. If you want us to consider your reply for public posting, you can send a Carbon Copy to us. We reserve the right to edit and post. UFOR articles are archived in http://www.Reference.COM. For any change in your UFOR participation, please, e mail me at d005734c@dc.seflin.org The most ample distribution of articles published in UFOR is highly encouraged as long as proper attribution and respect for the authors and participating lists expressed wishes, if any, are mantained, this include printed and electronic media, including for profit and non profit organizations. _________________________________________________________________________ Search for other documents from or mentioning: d005734c | geibdan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Officer Qualification Record From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:39:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:47:52 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Officer Qualification Record Greeting List Members Larry Bryant kindly supplied me with a copy of Corso' Department of the Army Form 66, Officer Qualification Record, which summarizes his military career. The information contained on this record is in summary form, and generally can't be used to determind specific reasons why something happen in a person's career. Some items are blacked out because of the Privacy Act. This form was obtained form the St. Louis Army Reserve Personnel Center. The facts: 1. LTC Corso was a commissioned in the Artillery and the Artillery was his control branch during his career. 2. He was a reserve officer. 3. He serve 21 years in the Army. 23 Feb 42-1 Mar 63 4. He has credit for 4 overseas tours. European theater 13 Apr 43- 22 Mar 46 Mediterreanian theater 24 May 46-22 Mar 47 Far East Command 1 Sep 50-2 Jun 53 US Army, Europe 19 Oct 57-13 Spe 60 5. He was granted a General Staff Identifier on 1 Jun 62 6. He was promoted to LTC in AUS on 30 July 53 and in USAR 21 May 1957. 7. He had a long list of Military Occupational Specialities most involved with Intelligence and Air Defense Artillery. 8. He had a command as a Battalion Commander of Air Defense Battalion in Europe. 9. Civilian Education includes 2 years of college. He had two Intel Courses and three Artillery Courses. 10. He was awarded the Legion of Merit and other commendations. He has a number of campaign ribbons for service during WW II and the Korean War. 11. He has not credit for campaigns in Korea. 12. He was detailed away from his career main branch five times for a significant part of his career. 13. He was assigned to Fort Riley, Kansas from 21 April 1947- 12 May 1950. 14. He was assigned to GHQ, Far East Command on 11 Sep 50 to 1 Jan 53, as Intel Staff Off, Plans & Estimate Branch, Theater Intel Div, G-2 15. From 1 Jan 53 to 2 Jun 53 he was assigned as Chief Special Project Branch, G-2 Section of the HQ, AFFE, 8000th AU (I do not know what these designations mean.) 16. From 15 Jul 53 to 20 Oct 56 he served in various Intel positions in Washington, DC included a short temporary duty to the Psycological Strategy Board at the State Department. 17. He had various other assignments until 1961. The most important to his career was as Battalion Commander from 1957 to 1958. 18. On June 20th, 1961 he was assigned to the Foreign Technology Division (FTD) as a Staff office. He stayed at that assignment until 18 July 1962 when he was assign as Staff Officer in the Plans Div, OCRD, Washington, DC. 19. During his FTD assignment, he was chief from 18 April- 18 Jul 1962. Of this 90 day assignment which qualified him for a official rating report as chief, he was absent for 15 days of those days. More Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:11:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:07:30 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record Greetings, I am already getting questions: The DA Form 66 does not indicate security clearances. Generally, today a Battalion Commander in the Air Defense requires a Top Secret/Sensitive Compartamentalized Information (TS/SCI) clearance which requires a Special Background Investigation. Clearance information is on the clearance form itself or on the Officer Record Brief. Some of Corso's assignments like Unit Advisor to the National Guard in Towson, Maryland from 10 Oct 60 to 5 May 61 *could* very well haved been a cover assignment. It could also have been an actual assignment. If Corso were such a fast burner in the intelligence field, his superiors should have got him his promotion to full Colonel. That may have required some greesing of skids with the Artillery Branch, but certainly not unheard of. Speculation on what could, should or would have happen is just that: speculation. Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Men In Black Vehicles From: "Diane (Doc) Landry" <plandry1@netcom.ca> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 07:53:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:10:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Men In Black Vehicles >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:44:32 -0400 (EDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Men In Black Vehicles >>From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) >>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:09:01 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Men In Black Vehicles >>Does anyone have any information on what the classic "men in black" are >>found to be traveling in these days? The reason is, I do believe I had a >>run in with these guys last night. It's a long story, but if ANYONE has >>ANY information, it would be greatly appreciated. >>Clint Stone >>Assoc. St. Director >>Ky/MUFON I have just finished doing research on MIBs for personal reasons and have just posted it on my web page. However, I have found that they are mostly seen in black Cadillacs, or big black expensive cars. Now according to some of the people I have talked to, the vehicle can be just about anything, and not always black but dark in color. Diane http://www.psn.net/-bryan/Bryan.htm Bryan and Diane's Paranormal and the Unknown Email: Diane plandry1@netcom.ca Bryan: plandry1@netcom.ca " the truth is out there " ICQ # 1646055
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 SKYWATCH: Nov. 15 & 16 1st Skywatch International From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:51:51 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:25:05 -0400 Subject: SKYWATCH: Nov. 15 & 16 1st Skywatch International ANNOUNCING THE FIRST ANNUAL SKYWATCH CONFERENCE DATE: NOVEMBER 15th and 16th, 1997 PLACE: HOLIDAY INN WEST at 51st Ave and the I-10 Freeway Phoenix, Arizona This is going to be one dynamite conference. I am arranging it so that the audience will hear new revelations on the UFO mystery, new revelations about the Roswell craft, new revelations about Area 51, new revelations about cattle mutilations, new revelations about the big black triangles and orange balls of light. I have gotten recent confirmation that Dr. Bruce Cornet will travel all the way from New jersey to show us his spectacular videos and investigation of the Pine Bush NY hotspot and Guy Kirkwood will tell us about the Air Force pursuit of the UFO evidence (and he can now prove he was an Air Force pilot despite Stan Friedman) and we are inviting Col Philip Corso to tell us about Reverse Engineering and we are having a surprise luncheon (box lunch) presentation on the Inside story of the Roswell craft with a surprise guest speaker. There will be a special presentation on the Phoenix Lights. And of course, our very own Col. Wilson will put the frosting on the cake with his insider revelations on the secret group MAJI. How could you or your friends miss such a gala event. Please review the website: http://members.aol.com/starmanbh/swi.htm for updates on this conference. SCHEDULE OF SPEAKERS AND EVENTS: SATURDAY - THE UFO MYSTERIES 10:00 - 10:30 WELCOME 10:30 - 12:00 Ted Loman "History of UFO Crash/Retrievals" 12:00 - 13:00 LUNCH PRESENTATION: SPECIAL EVENT WITH BOX LUNCH 13:00 - 14:30 Lt. Col (USAF Ret) Wendelle Stevens "UFO Photos of the 1990s" 14:30 - 16:00 Dave Perkins "Cattle Mutilations, Black Helicopters, and Strange Phenomena" 16:00 - 17:30 Chris O' Brien "The Mysterious Valley Update and the New Research Paradigm" Chris O' Brien 17:30 - 19:00 "The Mysterious Valley Update and the New Research Paradigm" Dinner Break 19:00 - 20:30 Keynote Speaker 20:30 - 22:00 Jim Dilettoso, Tom King, Bill Hamilton "The Phoenix Lights" - a video presentation ***************************************************** SUNDAY - BEHIND THE UFO MYSTERY 10:00 - 10:30 WELCOME 10:30 - 12:00 Guy Kirkwood (USAF F-86 pilot) "The Air Force and UFOs" 12:00 - 13:00 LUNCH BREAK 13:00 - 14:30 (Ret) MSgt Clifford Stone "The Truth Behind Operation Blue Fly and UFO Crash Recoveries" 14:30 - 16:00 SPEAKER 8 16:00 - 17:30 Bob Dean (Sergeant-Major Ret) "The Assessment" 17:30 - 19:00 DINNER BREAK 19:00 - 20:30 Col. (USAF Ret) Steve Wilson "Inside MAJI (MJ-12), NSA, and the Aquarius Projects Project Pounce" 20:30 - 22:00 Speaker Panel and closing Price Schedule: Non-members: $35 per day or $65 for both days $120 for couples for both days Members: $30 per day or $55 for both days $100 for member couples for both days Children (under 15): $25 per day or $50 for both days Table rental space (Six vendor tables are available) at $100.00 per table A block of Hotel rooms will be offered at special conference rates up to a month before the conference. Make checks or M.O. out to: SI/S.Wilson Mail to: Skywatch Conference P.O. Box 801 Leander, TX 78646-0801 Call: (602) 404-7566 for further information In addition we have arranged with the hotel to have a $10.00 box lunch on Saturday to be added to the price of the ticket. During the serving of the box lunch, we will have a special presentation and show new video presented by a special guest. Please add that to your ticket price ____$10 Box Lunch Special This will help us reduce the cost of the facilities. Thank you very much and hope to see as many of you as possible at the 1st Skywatch International Conference. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Exec Dir Skywatch Int'l -- End -- ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International and this list service are not responsible for authenticity of posts. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) [Col. Steve Wilson] Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:35:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:30:09 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:27:21 -0400 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:42:02 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > In a message dated 97-08-25 12:18:53 EDT, you write: > > Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:10:16 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> > > Subject: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy (Three Good Questions.) > > (Feedback) To: updates@globalserve.net > > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > > Has any evidence of any kind been provided to establish that any of > > the claims of Colonel Wilson are true? How about some documentation > > like DD > Gee whiz <big grin at this point> I didn't think we needed verifiable > documentation, after all we have no VERIFIABLE documentation that a > group concerned with "UFOs\Roswell" was called MJ-12, (the verifiable > "documentation only "proves" that their was a special meeting for the > MJ-12 SSG scheduled after one of the NSC meetings during the > Eisenhower administration. We don't know what that group in fact > did. > We still can't quite verify that the MJ-12 briefing document is > true. But we can't "verify" that its a hoax either. > *We can "verify" that their was a meeting with Pres. Elect Eisenhower > in the Pentagon on Nov 18, 1952 because it was in the newspapers/public > records etc. However there exists no verifiable record anywhere that > says Eisenhower received a briefing from Roscoe on MJ-12. > So one could say using MJ-12 logic "Well even if Col Steve's claims > can't be proven with verifiable documentation/records, it doesn't > mean it didn't happen. > > 214, how he knows how many are being shot down, where he worked on > > Project Pounce? Just what weapons are used to shoot them down? > > Where does the wreckage go? Others who were involved? Claims come > > easy... like the false opnes of Bob Lazar, Guy Kirkwood, Michael > > Wolf etc... > > Speaking of claims, don't forget Bill "I am working with the OSI on a > UFO disinformation program" Moore, Gerald Anderson, Glen "I haven't been > able to name the nurse/she can't be located" Dennis, Jim Ragsdale, and > other Roswell witness who have changed their stories, sworn out new > statements and or told new tales to new people. > > A very skeptical > > Stan Friedman > I am sure that Stan would totally understand why people are just as > skeptical of the MJ-12/Roswell claims as he is of Col. Wilson's. > Cheers, > Robert Note: I want to answer this one, although I seldom do, being that I have to defend nothing. First, I have sent Hamilton and Boylan copies of my DD-214 "for their eyes only" since I HAVE been working with them. If they should break this trust, they would never get one more word out of me. I offered Friedman my help in the beginning two years ago and was blown off like a dirty shirt. He'll just have to dig for it now. And second, I was so deep in the Black Projects that no one will find me without my help. Putting it bluntly, you need me more than I need any of you as I'm the one with a FEW of the answers. This is my last word on the subject, so keep on cutting, if not me it would be some other poor soul............Col. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International and this list service are not responsible for authenticity of posts. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ---------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: skywatch | rgates8254 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 PROJECT-1947 - Col. Halt at FUFOR Conference From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:32:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:32:53 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Col. Halt at FUFOR Conference Greeting List Members, COL Halt presentation at the FUFOR conference Saturday was very carefully prepared and covered many aspects of the Rendlesham events that were previously unclear. Since a tape was made of the presentation, I want to get this for further study. He talked briefly with him prior and after his talk. Here are some points he made: 1. Neither COL Halt nor the US component of the Air Base conducted an official investigation. The area where the sightings occurred were out of the US jurisdiction. The Military Police did not submit a Serious Incident Report. 2. The UK component likewise, to COL Halt's knowledge, did not submit an report. Since the US and UK personnel coordinated closely on such matters, Halt did not doubt his counterpart's word. 3. This area was in the local police jurisdiction. He knew that they investigated, but not the results. 4. The sightings were general knowledge on the base. Halt got a UFO T-shirt as a going away present when he left. 5. They were not told to keep quiet about the sightings. They did so out of concern for the careers and because of ridicule. There was also a concern of the US military presence in an area beyond their jurisdiction. 6. COL Halt did not have control over the OSI. No OSI personnel investigated him. He felt there was an outside investigation because others told they were questioned. (Richard Hall told me that his information indicated that the witnesses felt something sinister about such an investigation.) The OSI could have submitted a report without Halt's knowledge. 7. The sightings, as spectular as they were have been further jazzed up by others in their accounts. 8. He will not appear anywhere with Larry Warren. Asked about why Warren's creditability, and why Warren left the service, he declined to answer directly. (Considering that there might be privacy issue here, we should not be surprised.) 9. They were aware of the lighthouses, and consider this explanation without merit. Halt talked to the lighthouse keepers who echoed that assessment. 10. Halt is aware of rabbit burrowing. They encountered rabbit problems with bunker maintanence. That is why they believe the landing traces had nothing to do with rabbits. 11. The film from the cameras came out fogged. While there was increased radiation at the "landing" site, it was not great enough to fog the film. 12. There were no underground storage areas at the base. The high water table makes underground installations impracticable. 13. Monitoring of telephones. Official telephones are subject to monitoring. Generally, the monitor only records that classified information may be involved. Satistics are made available to commander. It is possible that specific calls are recorded. All US military in Europe are aware of this. It is also constantly announced on the American TV and Radio systems. It is unlike that pay phones are monitored. 14. Certain British UFO enthusiasts have more obnoxious behavior than their US counterparts. Halt had to have one fellow who invaded his house removed by the police. He family was harassed. 15. He was not forced to retire because of this incident as some claimed. He had increasing more important assignments after this incident. 16. He suffers no ill effects while other witnesses have had medical aftereffects. 17. Halt would not comment on Rendlesham having special weapons. While I at first thought this being too caustious, the Air Force does have different standards than the other services. Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 PROJECT-1947 - Col. Halt's Talk From: Robert Swiatek <swiman@POP.DN.NET> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:48:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:34:58 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Col. Halt's Talk List Members-- My wife is urging me to supplement Jan's summation of Halt's talk last Saturday. Halt did say that some personnel suffered medical aftereffects, but he qualified this banal statement to say that he did not receive the same treatment as other witnesses due to the fact that he had powerful friends in many places. The chilling portion of his statement was that many other witnesses were subject to "special treatment and injections." Stupidly, none of us followed up with any questions about this. But it's all on (digital) tape and eventually will be made available. --Rob Swiatek
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: 'Out There' by Howard Blum From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:50:01 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:36:06 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Out There' by Howard Blum > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:53:46 -0500 > From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: The Book "Out There" by Howard Blum > Howdy folks... > > I just finished this book a week ago and found it to be an excellent > overview of this UFO phenomenon as of some seven years ago. While > working on the central theme of a secret deep Pentagon group rehashing > the truth of UFO's for the government, Blum worked a few parallel > stories into the book that illuminated major aspects of our > relationship to UFO's. Though not one of the more important sections, > I found his writings on Philip Klass particularly informative. Blum > reveals Klass's interest in debunking UFO's to be a pronounced case of > Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. This permits me to be somewhat more > tolerant of Klass's efforts, if not his manipulative and pejorative > style. > Now the real reason for my posting this. Last week while discussing > ways to more legitimize the study of UFO's, Rebecca mentioned while > discussing Howard Blum that he learned he had been lied to about some > of the subjects of "Out There" and had become disenchanted with the > issue of UFOs. > As you can imagine, this has left me intensely curious with what > Howard Blum may have learned and what parts of "Out There" are now > suspect. Would Rebecca or anyone else be able to share the details > with us? > Thanks... Ted.. This book is loaded with false information, false reasoning, and lots of fiction. Blum was out to make a fast buck. He certainly didn't check out the already existing documents proving there was a government coverup.For example he has everything wrong about me, Berlitz and Bill Moore and the Roswell Incident. Pencil thin Phil Klass? The people at the National Archives laughed their heads off about his fictional description ... Sorry the book is bunk. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:15:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 13:05:48 -0400 Subject: Re: The question of UFO witness anonymity List, The recent posts regarding Linda Cortile have compelled me to share my opinion on this issue. I'm not sure how Linda's identity got compromised, but it is a real shame. She has the right to a life free of UFO researchers calling her at all hours, writing her, ect. Some people(Jim Moseley) always point out her real last name figuring that now that some people know it, why not let everybody in on the secret. Regardless of your opinions of Linda and her case she has a right to privacy. People trust us with their information and in doing so risk ridicule from both other UFO researchers as well as the public at large. If this disturbing trend continues less witnesses will come forward. The bottom line should be that if you have an anonymous witness, they should stay that way. My congratulations to Linda on her son's small role in "Two Bits"! Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Question for Linda Cortile From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 12:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:36:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Linda Cortile From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:16 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:23:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Linda Cortile > Since you've used my family name on a public forum, knowing full well > how I fought for years to protect the privacy of my family and me, I > wonder Rebecca...has your skepticism fogged up your ethics and > values? My fogginess and ethics really took a hit here Linda, but how would I have asked the question? If I had said: "Was your son in the movie "Two Bits?" Everyone could have just gone to the same Internet Movie Database as I did and figured it out. I'm sorry that you have been offended Linda, that was not my intention. Your name is out there. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist (not even one as good as Roger Prokic <g>) to figure out which one of the parts was your son. The name leapt off the page at me, and I'm sure it would have for others as well. FWIW, I did have qualms about even mentioning it, but considering that your son has a prominent part in "Witnessed," I thought it should have been asked. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 27 Aug 97 12:44:41 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:28:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books Open letter to Kal K. Korff, SCICOP and Promethius Books, As I understand it your argument against Ray Santilli's copyright on the images from the alien autopsy film that you have used in your books is that these photos are in the public domain. Now, let's get this straight. They are in the public domain because the cameraman was employed by the US Government when he shot them, right. And that puts them in the public domain. Hey, wait a munute, by arguing this aren't you arguing that the film is real, and the cameraman's story true??? If the film is a hoax created by Ray Santilli, then there is absolutely no question that he owns the copyright to the images. You can't have it both ways. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: 'Out There' by Howard Blum From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:28:56 PDT Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:30:34 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Out There' by Howard Blum > Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:50:01 -0300 > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Out There' by Howard Blum > > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:53:46 -0500 > > From: Ted Viens <drtedv@smart1.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: The Book "Out There" by Howard Blum > > Howdy folks... > > I just finished this book a week ago and found it to be an excellent > > overview of this UFO phenomenon as of some seven years ago. While > > working on the central theme of a secret deep Pentagon group rehashing > > the truth of UFO's for the government, Blum worked a few parallel > > stories into the book that illuminated major aspects of our > > relationship to UFO's. Though not one of the more important sections, > > I found his writings on Philip Klass particularly informative. Blum > > reveals Klass's interest in debunking UFO's to be a pronounced case of > > Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. This permits me to be somewhat more > > tolerant of Klass's efforts, if not his manipulative and pejorative > > style. > > Now the real reason for my posting this. Last week while discussing > > ways to more legitimize the study of UFO's, Rebecca mentioned while > > discussing Howard Blum that he learned he had been lied to about some > > of the subjects of "Out There" and had become disenchanted with the > > issue of UFOs. > > As you can imagine, this has left me intensely curious with what > > Howard Blum may have learned and what parts of "Out There" are now > > suspect. Would Rebecca or anyone else be able to share the details > > with us? > > Thanks... Ted.. > This book is loaded with false information, false reasoning, and > lots of fiction. Blum was out to make a fast buck. He certainly > didn't check out the already existing documents proving there was a > government coverup.For example he has everything wrong about me, Berlitz > and Bill Moore and the Roswell Incident. Pencil thin Phil Klass? The > people at the National Archives laughed their heads off about his > fictional description ... Sorry the book is bunk. > Stan Friedman Hi, everybody, Let me second Stan's wise remarks re this fraudulent book. When it appeared in 1990, many of those who figure in it -- not just ufologists but also SETI people and journalists (e.g., Seymour Hersch) -- protested that the accounts describing them, their activities, and their interactions with Blum were largely, sometimes entirely, fictional. Separate investigations have pretty much established that the incident recounted in Chapter 1 (the tracking via U.S. Space Command radar of an object coming to earth from deep space) never happened. At the time the book was published, some critics remembered that a few years earlier Blum had written another book, this one on Nazi war criminals in America. That book was also widely criticized for glaring inaccuracies and apparent outright inventions. Two or three years ago I happened to watch Charlie Rose's show on PBS. Blum, who had just published a book on the FBI's war against organized crime, was on along with two or three newspaper reporters who specialize in crime coverage. The latter were fiercely hostile to Blum, pointing to error after error in his book. One (I believe the organized-crime reporter from the New York Daily News) said he had spoken personally with some of the people mentioned, and they swore that no such things as Blum claimed had happened ever took place; or, if they did, Blum had so many facts wrong that the accounts might as well have been made up. Blum's defense? The other writers were just "jealous." Yeah, right, Howie. Out of this I felt a certain grim vindication. At least ufologists aren't Blum's only victims. Apparently he regards all readers of books on any subject on which he writes as equally gullible. To paraphrase what somebody told Ed Ruppelt about the Florida scoutmaster: If Blum told me the sun was shining, I'd look out the window just to make sure. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: In the interest of truth From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 13:45:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:58:52 -0400 Subject: Re: In the interest of truth >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:54:06 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: >> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:42:29 -0500 >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> >> Subject: In the interest of truth I wrote, >> Hi All, >> I had a disturbing experience this week-end. A sighting of multiple >>>>bright objects at fairly close range. Jim Deardorff responds, >Hello John, >If a non-abductee like myself can give any advice, it would be to >keep in mind how commonplace it is for abductees to have multiple >sightings -- continued sightings every few days, weeks or months, while >negative skeptics will have none. This way the UFO people can maintain >their coverup amongst these skeptics, who without second thought will >assume that you and all the others in your boat are mistaken or loony. >The last thing they will want to consider is that the aliens are smart >enough to have planned things this way. They are leaving it up to you >and other abductees and multiple UFO sighters to spread the word in a way >that won't force skeptics to believe what they still aren't capable of >handling mentally. Jim, thank you so much for your openess and understanding. It really is helpful/healing for me to know that some are listening and more importantly, care. And yes, I am very aware of the part I and others are playing in helping to mitigate the shock of eventual open contact for others that may be less prepared. It's what I've been doing full time/tilt for the last 5 years! <G> *Personally I think it's a 'mission' that I have been very carefully prepared for over the course of a lifetime. But that's just pure conjecture and speculation on my part. "Only a feeling." I _know_ how incredulous these sighting reports must sound, based on frequency alone I myself would have problems digesting it all. It's happening to _me_ however, so I don't have the luxury of dis-believing. It also helps me tremendously to 'talk about it,' vent the energy, and share it. A lot of this stuff is almost too much for one person to carry around in their head alone. These sightings are meant for _all_ not just for specific or 'chosen' individuals. Without ever intending it I have become a reporter of "news" that very few wish to hear! <G> >These negative skeptics are only capable of assuming that ETs would only >randomly or accidently show their spacecraft to witnesses, since they do >not wish to ascribe much intelligence to aliens if they exist. But >there's no need for you to make any of their assumptions. I try not to Jim, but I also don't ever pretend to have the 'answers' either. It's tough standing in the middle and having to live with an open question. But that's the way it is so I deal with it on that level. >I don't think your latest sightings were all that weird, relatively >speaking. The aliens are almost always creative and coming up with new >ways of presenting their craft. Cheeses, Mary, and Joseph, did you say a mouthful there! <VBG> >But as to your chief concern, I of course can't help you. If future UFO >abductions are to occur within your family, you know darned well there's >nothing you can do to prevent it I've known that from the beginning. It's why I commited myself to the course of action that I have chosen, (public activism) to do what I can to make others aware of what is going on. I've been at this hammer and tong for five years Jim, I have very few illusions (if any) about any of this. Errol and a few others know some of the pure shit I've been through because of my decision to stand up, speak out, and be counted. It doesn't minimize the impact or the human emotions generated by the experiences themselves however. The ongoing nature of the abductions is just something that we all have to live/deal with on a daily basis. Talking about it to you guys is just one of my ways of coping. Aside from the 'public service' it's very therapeutic for me personally to report. >So if or when it comes to the totally inevitable event, do >whatever you can first to counsel your family to try to shrug off fear, >which then serves no good purpose. We're all fine Jim. I was just 'venting' sharing my feelings with others on the list. I'm a big believer in "talking about it" when something big comes up and I also believe in soliciting as much feed back from my peers as possible. That's how I learn and grow. I believe in the saying, "You alone can do it, but you can't do it alone!" That's why I sometimes take the opportunity to 'dump' on you guys here on the list, you are all a tremendous source of valuable and quality feedback. I am grateful for you all. You guys can be and have been in the past, a reliable 'safty net.' >Keep up your postings; I and others on this list appreciate hearing from >first-hand witnesses like you and Linda and some others. Taint easy my brother cause I have to 'live through' the experiences before I can report em, but I most certainly will. It appears I have no choice, 'they' are seeing to that! John Velez, Tampered Goods John Velez jvif@spacelab.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Question for Londa Cortile From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:39:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 19:02:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Londa Cortile > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:16 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto - <updates@globalserve.net> > From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Londa Cortile > >From: XianneKei@aol.com > >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:58:53 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Question for Linda C. > Hi Errol and everyone! > Rebecca wrote: > >Linda > >On page 300 of 'Witnessed', Budd refers to your son's testimony > >pertaining to the diving helmet the third man had given to him. In > >one paragraph it says your son would have had to have been a > >trained actor to have come up with such a story and repeated in > >the way he did. > >While doing a filmography on one of my favorite actors I ran across > >a name that leapt off the screen at me: "Jon ----------." He is listed > >as Player #3, in the film "Two Bits," starring Al Pacino. By some > >strange coincidence is the Jon ---------- in this movie your son? > >If so, cool. Did you get to meet Al Pacino? > >Rebecca > Rebecca: > Just like the 'Witnessed" case and a life filled with coincidences, my son > takes after me! > Yes, in 1992, my younger son John, gave testimony pertaining to the > divers helmet the third man had given to him. It's true, he would've had > to be a trained actor to have come up with such testimony and repeat it > the way he did. However, your question gives me a chance to tell every- > one about a cute little coincidence, which is only one of many others. > "In 1994, at lunch-time, John sat quietly in the school cafeteria eating a > meatball sandwich I had prepared for him that morning. Unknowingly, a > couple of casting directors walked through the lunchroom (with mother > superior's permission, of course). > Later that day, when John came home from school, he handed me an > envelope from mother superior. I'd thought that John set the mice free > from their cages again, into the teachers lounge. John swore, up and > down that he didn't do anything wrong and he couldn't understand why > he was sent home with this letter. When I opened the letter expecting > a complaint, I was pleasantly surprised! The letter explained that these > casting directors were on a national search for new children to play in a > movie entitled, "Two Bits," starring Al Pacino. > I'm proud to say that my pretty boy, John, was chosen to play a small > role in the movie. He played, one of many children growing up during > the depression era. His role entailed that of a little boy playing baseball > in the street with four other boys. When one other boy hit the ball, it > lands on a neighboring roof top. John's role was for him to yell out: > "YOU ROOFED IT!" > Three words...I wish there were more, because John is as intelligent, as > he is handsome (a younger James Dean look alike). Although my son > is no Humphrey Bogart, he had the time of his life and a first time > opportunity to rub elbows with Al Pacino and others!!! I hope his life's > coincidences will be as pleasant as the one I've just explained to you. > Unlike mine. <G> > Now I have a question for you, Rebecca. > Since you've used my family name on a public forum, knowing full well > how I fought for years to protect the privacy of my family and me, I > wonder Rebecca...has your skepticism fogged up your ethics and > values? > Linda Linda: I am not even a major player in the UFOlogy game but I knew your name. Your name has been common knowledge for years. If your name was in print its in public domain. If you wanted annonymity you shouldnt have put your story on the bookracks. MOST abductees dont! Barbara Search for other documents from or mentioning: c549597 | honeybe100 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 13:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 19:03:43 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:58:20 -0300 > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy <brevity snip> > For Robert: > Is Colonel Wilson a colonel? Was he in the military? What basis is there > for his claims? I haven't asked for proof.. just some evidence. Crash at > Corona and TOP SECRET/MAJIC and my 108 page Final Report on Operation > Majestic 12 provide evidence. The "colonel" has made claims but > presented no evidence. There is a difference. > Skeptical Stan Friedman Based on my knowledge, we should be able to get a copy of Col Steve's military records from the National Pers Center at St. Louis. However I suspect we would find no verifiable evidence that he in fact was involved in some sort of Black project. They generally don't list those kind of things. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Romnian UFO Exhibition From: "Manoliu Valentin" <manovale@starnets.ro> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 20:51:13 +0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 19:04:51 -0400 Subject: Romnian UFO Exhibition Mr. Errol Bruce-Knapp, I wish open a UFO Exhibition in ROMANIA at the end of the year. Please help me, if you can, with materials of any kind. Thank you, MANOLIU VALENTIN E-mail: manovale@starnets.ro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Question for Linda Cortile From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:01:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 19:08:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Linda Cortile >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Question for Linda Cortile >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 20:05:21 -0000 >From: pwedel <pwedel@neptune.on.ca> [Paul Wedel] >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>>From: XianneKei@aol.com >>>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:58:53 -0400 (EDT) >>>To: updates@globalserve.net >>>Subject: Question for Linda C.Linda, >>On page 300 of Witnessed, Budd refers to your son's testimony pertaining to >>the the diving helmet the third man had given to him. In one paragraph it >>says your son would have had to have been a trained actor to have come up >>with such a story and repeated in the way he did. >>While doing a filmography on one my favorite actors I ran across a name that >>leapt off the screen at me: "Jon Napolitano." He is listed as Player #3, in >>the film "Two Bits," starring Al Pacino. By some strange coincidence is the >>Jon Napolitano in this movie your son? >>If so, cool. Did you get to meet Al Pacino? >Dear (original) author of this message, >Perhaps UFOUpdates is not an appropriate forum for this >kind of message. However innocently intended, it's wording >seeks to remove her family's anonymity. In a business wrought >with people who seem to enjoy attacking and hurting each other, >it seems unwise to ask this question in the manner that it was >asked. >respectfully concerned, >Paul Hi Rebecca, I have to 'second' Pauls remarks. Because I love you I won't pull out my tailectomy kit. Ask 'Stacy' about the new rectum I excavated for him for doing the same thing. You ought to know better by now my friend that we don't use the names of people who wish to remain anonymous, whether that anonymity has already been violated by others or not. Everytime you use her real name someone who 'didn't know' finds out! I know how terrible you'd feel if Linda suddenly started being harassed by some whacko who managed to tracked her down because he learned her real name for the first time in your post. Think about it, it's not so very far fetched a possibility. If you can't help Linda, don't hurt her either. The lady is a personal friend of mine and anyone who wants to cause her harm or difficulty will have to get by me first! John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | pwedel |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: SKYWATCH: Nov. 15 & 16 1st Skywatch From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 01:41:48 -0400 Subject: Re: SKYWATCH: Nov. 15 & 16 1st Skywatch In a message dated 97-08-27 13:08:48 EDT, Bill Hamilton wrote: >and Guy Kirkwood will tell us about the Air Force pursuit of the >UFO evidence (and he can now prove he was an Air Force pilot despite >Stan Friedman) This is exactly what is wrong and always has been wrong with this field of --- UFO "research". No matter how many times a proven hoaxer or liar is "exposed" they continually pop back up, and people that should know better...............don't. Forget Stan Friedman, in 1992 in Volume 7 Number 3 of UFO Magazine, I wrote the definitive "expose" on Guy Kirkwood-Mel Noel-Noall Bryce Cornwell (pick one, he has used them all) and before it even went to press "Mel or Guy" came by my home where I showed the story to him. At that time he had been promising to provide his Air Force credentials to me....for well over a year. He did not have any....as a matter of fact I was not the first person to do an expose on Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell. Bob Dornan, the former Congressman from Orange Co. Calf. had Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell on his Television program "Tempo" in October of 1969 where he admitted he had never been an Air Force pilot. Dornan, a former Super Sabre pilot was angered by Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell passing himself off as a pilot and former serviceman. This was not long after Dornan's brother Don had conducted a secret investigation on Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell for LIFE Magazine because of Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell's UFO claims. The entire expose is available on UFO Magazine's Web Site at www.ufomagazine.com, looking under K in the photo library, clicking on Guy Kirkwood's photo and it will take you right to the story. Lest anyone think I do not like Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell, let me say that in all my dealings with him, he was always the perfect gentleman, funny, humorous, and quite charming. However most con-men are. Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com PS This field will NEVER BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY UNTIL THE PEOPLE IN THE UFO FIELD RESEARCH INSTEAD OF BELIEVING EVERYTHING THAT COMES DOWN THE PIKE.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:03:32 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 01:45:51 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > > From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] > > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:42:02 -0400 (EDT) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > > > Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:10:16 -0400 (EDT) > > > From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> > > > Subject: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy (Three Good Questions.) > > > (Feedback) To: updates@globalserve.net > > > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > > > Has any evidence of any kind been provided to establish that any of > > > the claims of Colonel Wilson are true? How about some documentation > > > like DD > > Gee whiz <big grin at this point> I didn't think we needed verifiable > > documentation, after all we have no VERIFIABLE documentation that a > > group concerned with "UFOs\Roswell" was called MJ-12, (the verifiable > > "documentation only "proves" that their was a special meeting for the > > MJ-12 SSG scheduled after one of the NSC meetings during the > > Eisenhower administration. We don't know what that group in fact > > did. > > We still can't quite verify that the MJ-12 briefing document is > > true. But we can't "verify" that its a hoax either. > > *We can "verify" that their was a meeting with Pres. Elect Eisenhower > > in the Pentagon on Nov 18, 1952 because it was in the newspapers/public > > records etc. However there exists no verifiable record anywhere that > > says Eisenhower received a briefing from Roscoe on MJ-12. > > So one could say using MJ-12 logic "Well even if Col Steve's claims > > can't be proven with verifiable documentation/records, it doesn't > > mean it didn't happen. > > > 214, how he knows how many are being shot down, where he worked on > > > Project Pounce? Just what weapons are used to shoot them down? > > > Where does the wreckage go? Others who were involved? Claims come > > > easy... like the false opnes of Bob Lazar, Guy Kirkwood, Michael > > > Wolf etc... > > Speaking of claims, don't forget Bill "I am working with the OSI on a > > UFO disinformation program" Moore, Gerald Anderson, Glen "I haven't been > > able to name the nurse/she can't be located" Dennis, Jim Ragsdale, and > > other Roswell witness who have changed their stories, sworn out new > > statements and or told new tales to new people. > > > A very skeptical > > > Stan Friedman > > I am sure that Stan would totally understand why people are just as > > skeptical of the MJ-12/Roswell claims as he is of Col. Wilson's. > > Cheers, > > Robert > Note: I want to answer this one, although I seldom do, being that I have > to defend nothing. First, I have sent Hamilton and Boylan copies of my > DD-214 "for their eyes only" since I HAVE been working with them. If > they should break this trust, they would never get one more word out of > me. I offered Friedman my help in the beginning two years ago and was > blown off like a dirty shirt. He'll just have to dig for it now. And > second, I was so deep in the Black Projects that no one will find me > without my help. Putting it bluntly, you need me more than I need any > of you as I'm the one with a FEW of the answers. This is my last word > on the subject, so keep on cutting, if not me it would be some other > poor soul............Col. From Stan Friedman: I did not blow off the colonel ( if indeed he was one) like a dirty shirt. I pointed out that many things he had said were flat out wrong. To his credit, he withdrew them.If you were so deeply in black projects, why are you talking now? Have you provided anything except stories? Some kind of evidence would be nice. STF Search for other documents from or mentioning: fsphys | rgates8254 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: New Roswell Book: 'IN LEAGUE WITH A UFO' From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 22:50:39 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 01:48:28 -0400 Subject: Re: New Roswell Book: 'IN LEAGUE WITH A UFO' Found at: http://members.aol.com/inleague/index.htm SLEEPY OAK BOOKS IS PROUD TO PRESENT ONE OF THE HOTTEST BOOKS ON THE MARKET!! "IN LEAGUE WITH A UFO" Roswell - The Truth??? Ever wonder what really happened in Roswell, New Mexico? Did an unidentified flying object crash in the desert? Was there a cover-up by the government? A fascinating new book is just hitting the bookstores. Kansas City author, Lou Baldin, has written a book that is sure to get the attention of both local and national media. Titled "IN LEAGUE WITH A UFO", Baldin writes of a mysterious journal that documents all the happenings at Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. At that time a UFO was identified by many credible sources, yet all official spokesmen from the government denied it then, and continue to deny it today! Is "IN LEAGUE WITH A UFO" fiction or truth? The decision is yours. Either way, the pages come alive with details of an amazing spaceship. The scientists assigned to analyze it and its contents are baffled - and often in danger. Time, space and the laws of physics are meaningless in the spacecraft, and the instruments have incredible power for good as well as mayhem. Even more astounding is the alien abductions. But you must read this book for yourself!....Tom Leathers, Leathers Publishing ******* And there's more info on the book at: http://members.aol.com/inleague/products.htm#Top of Products Page The Book You Must Read "The whole spaceship resembles a kind of living metallic animal. It has no visible rivets or screws to hold things together, nor are there any seams. The ship and it's contents seemed to be more organic than synthetic; there are no hinges, latches, knobs, rollers or wheels, just a smooth, even, one-piece skin that encompassed the whole craft." About The Author .... Lou Baldin's curiosity about extraterrestrial life was kindled when his father told him a story that took place when he was young. It was a few years before the advent of the Second World War. He and his brother were walking home from school when they noticed something odd in the sky. He described what he saw as "three metallic circles." That story initiated a lifetime of curiosity, study and investigation finally propelled Lou into the writing of this book. ******* Practical info from the site: Book Price Ea. S & H Total Price $12.95 $5.00 $17.95 To order your book, send check or money order to: In League with a UFO Internet Orders Division PO Box 474 Smithville, MO 64089 ISBN 1-890622-03-6 General Information: InLeague@aol.com Webmaster: Iguana@mediaone.net Send mail to Iguana@mediaone.net with questions or comments about this web site. Copyright =A9 1997 Iguana Productions Last modified: August 20, 1997 LinkExchange Member Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose | inleague
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 UFO/ET Newsletter From: bikebob <bikebob@MO.NET> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:09:38 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 01:52:59 -0400 Subject: UFO/ET Newsletter Marc Davenport has asked me to pass along the following info to all those for whom it might be of interest. Everything contained between the dashed [ ----- ] lines is from Marc. Bob Soetebier --------------------------------------------------------------- This UFO/ET "newsletter" is from Marc Davenport. It's designed for our fellow researchers, friends, and customers, not the general public. If you don't know me, it's because your e-mail address was given to me by a third party who thought you would be interested. If you are not, and don't want any more of these brief newsletters, please reply with "unsubscribe" as the subject line so we can take you off the mailing list, and please accept my apology. If you received this from anyone other than leahmarc@ix.netcom.com and want to be added to the list for the next mailing, please reply to leahmarc@ix.netcom.com with "subscribe" as the subject line. Thank you for working with us and others to help raise the level of awareness on this planet above barbarism. Several of you have warned us about two new computer viruses. I am told that you should delete any E-mail message that says "Join the Crew" or "ao4free.com" WITHOUT OPENING IT because opening it can destroy your hard drive. Please pass this along to everybody on your list. Leah (Haley Davenport) and I are sorry our E-mailbox has been full for so long. A lot of people send us every piece of news on every aspect of ETs and UFOs. By the time I returned from the Roswell, Grand Rapids, and Laughlin conferences, the box was overflowing. That is now remedied, so you can contact us again at leahmarc@ix.netcom.com. Leah's health has not improved, but she is holding her own, and still functioning. Thank you all for the kind words, prayers, and light you have been sending her. I think it helps her a lot. I am trying to handle as much of her correspondence as possible to let her work on her tax deadlines and give her as much rest as possible. Please accept her apology if you have written to her and she has not had time to respond. Many of you have been asking when your copies of Jeanne Robinson's book, ALIENATED: A QUEST TO UNDERSTAND CONTACT, and Scott Corrales' book, CHUPACABRAS AND OTHER MYSTERIES will be ready. I am going to pick copies up in Kansas on Wednesday and start shipping them to you on Friday to shave off a couple of days from your long wait. Again, I apologize for the lateness. The UPS strike didn't help matters! Once you read the books, I think you will agree that they were worth waiting for. Any member of the media who wants to interview these authors may fax (or telephone) me at 615-896-1356. Or, if you must, E-mail me (but remember how easily my mailbox gets clogged!). Jeanne, Leah (Haley), and I will speak at conferences; Scott will not. ATTENTION AUTHORS: If your books (on any subject--not just UFOs) are listed in Books in Print (or if we carry them in our catalog), please feel free to give out our order line 1-800-9056-8367 when interviewers ask the inevitable question, "Where can our listeners/readers get your books?" Because we can take 30 calls simultaneously and it's toll-free, this has worked very well for Jim Marrs, Larry Warren, Caryl Dennis and lots of others. Because of impulse buying, you will make a lot of sales you would not otherwise make. But please remember to warn us ahead of time if you are going to be on a big show like Larry King Live or one of Art Bell's or Gordon Liddy's programs so we can put on extra operators to handle the rush. Some of you from outside the U.S.A. have expressed frustration at not being able to reach us at 800-905-8367. This is a toll-free number indside the U.S.A. only, and does not work from other countries. When outside the U.S.A., please telephone or fax us at 615-896-1356 instead. Many of you have asked when and where we will be at conferences. I will be at the 34th annual National UFO Conference in Springfield, Ohio on September 6, 1997. I will not be speaking this time--only selling books and tapes. The speakers are Stanton Friedman, David Jacobs, Bruce Maccabee, James Moseley, Rick Hilberg, Robert Galganski, and Mindy Kopolow. Information is at laputa@worldnet.att.net I will also be at the Prophet's Conference in Phoenix October 10-12. Info. at axiom@aloha.net or http://www.aloha.net/~axiom/phoenix.html Dozens of top speakers, including Zecharia Sitchin and Drunvalo Melchizidek will give talks. Next I will be at the Project Awareness conference in Tampa. October 31- November 2. Info. at crumble@telepex.com or UMBR73A@prodigy.com. Speakers include Whitley and Anne Strieber, David Adair, Dolores Cannon, Robert Ghost Wolf, Michael and Debra Lindemann, Melinda Leslie, Dea Martin, Donald Ware. Leah, Jeanne Robinson and I will all be speaking (along with Barbara Bartholic, Forest Crawford, Bob Buck, and several others) at the Memphis UFO conference Nov. 7 & 8. Look for information to be posted on our web page in a couple of weeks. Some of you have been asking when the web site is going to be updated with all the new books and tapes listed in our paper catalogs. We're going to do that as soon as we can find the time--hopefully in the next few days. Meanwhile, feel free to ask us about any particular title. We can obtain almost any title listed in BOOKS IN PRINT for you (that's more than 1,000,000 titles), but we DO NOT sell out-of-print titles. For those of you who have not seen the web page, the URL is now: http://www.debshome.com/glptitlepage.html When ordering from the web page rather than a paper catalog, please be sure to tell us so the architect of our web page can get the commission he deserves. I will send out another of these newsletters when I have something important to tell you and when I can find the time to do so. Meanwhile, be well. Cordially, Marc Davenport Greenleaf Publications/The Book Shopper P.O. Box 8152 Murfreesboro, TN 37133 U.S.A. 615-896-1549 fax 615-896-1356 leahmarc@ix.netcom.com http://www.debshome.com/glptitlepage.html ------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Martian Rocks Similar to Earth's From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 01:54:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Martian Rocks Similar to Earth's --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Martian Rocks Similar to Earth's Date: 97-08-27 15:55:25 EDT From: AOL News .c The Associated Press PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - The second rock type to be identified by NASA's Sojourner rover poses a mineralogical mystery that scientists hope to unlock with more remote-controlled wandering on the martian surface. Tom Economou, a University of Chicago scientist working with the rover's Alpha Proton X-ray spectrometer, said the analysis showed there are clearly at least two distinct kinds of rocks on the red planet. The second group, which includes rocks called Yogi and a recently examined rock called Wedge, is lower in silicon and higher in sulfur than Barnacle Bill, the first rock that Sojourner analyzed. The findings are so new, scientists on the Mars Pathfinder team haven't been able to come up with an explanation on how the second type of rock was formed. They also can't explain the presence of sulfur. Economou and Mars Pathfinder project scientist Matthew Golembek said scientists hope additional analysis of more rocks in the boulder-rich Rock Garden will help bolster their findings. A rock named Shark is much like the unusual Mars rock Barnacle Bill, which is remarkably similar to rocks found on Earth, scientists said today. The preliminary analysis of Shark indicates it was repeatedly heated in the martian crust. The Sojourner rover is currently stuck on a rock named Half Dome but soon will be dispatched for more chemical analysis, scientists said. In other findings presented today during a news conference at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mark Lemmon of the University of Arizona said: If you took all of the water vapor in the martian atmosphere and condensed it, it would form a thin layer about one-tenth the thickness of the human hair around the red planet. That compares with deep oceans on Earth. He has now found ``unambiguous'' evidence of wispy clouds visible before the martian sunrise that are made from icy water particles. They appeared to be blue in Pathfinder photographs released today. Golombek told reporters that he hopes to keep his job with the Pathfinder at least another year and thinks the spacecraft could continue exploring the martian service for many more months. AP-NY-08-27-97 1532EDT Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press. To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:34:17 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 02:01:20 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > From: RGates8254@aol.com > Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 13:46:12 -0400 (EDT) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:58:20 -0300 > > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > <brevity snip> > > For Robert: > > Is Colonel Wilson a colonel? Was he in the military? What basis is there > > for his claims? I haven't asked for proof.. just some evidence. Crash at > > Corona and TOP SECRET/MAJIC and my 108 page Final Report on Operation > > Majestic 12 provide evidence. The "colonel" has made claims but > > presented no evidence. There is a difference. > > Skeptical Stan Friedman > Based on my knowledge, we should be able to get a copy of Col Steve's > military records from the National Pers Center at St. Louis. > However I suspect we would find no verifiable evidence that he in fact was > involved in some sort of Black project. They generally don't list those kind > of things. > Cheers, > Robert Robert: I suspect there are an awful lot of Steve Wilson's. Without date of birth, full name, service number.. it isn't easy at all. Good luck Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 23:43:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 02:04:48 -0400 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:11:50 -0700 > From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> > Subject: Corso's Qualification Record > To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > Greetings, > I am already getting questions: > The DA Form 66 does not indicate security clearances. > Generally, today a Battalion Commander in the Air Defense > requires a Top Secret/Sensitive Compartamentalized Information > (TS/SCI) clearance which requires a Special Background > Investigation. Clearance information is on the clearance > form itself or on the Officer Record Brief. > Some of Corso's assignments like Unit Advisor to the National > Guard in Towson, Maryland from 10 Oct 60 to 5 May 61 *could* > very well haved been a cover assignment. It could also have > been an actual assignment. If Corso were such a fast burner > in the intelligence field, his superiors should have got him > his promotion to full Colonel. That may have required some > greesing of skids with the Artillery Branch, but certainly > not unheard of. > Speculation on what could, should or would have happen is > just that: speculation. > Best regards, > Jan Aldrich Judge ye, not that ye be judged. Care to post your service record? Would similar commentary apply? Gary Alevy Gary Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | jan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: "Stay honest!" From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@crossfields.com> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 21:35:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 02:06:51 -0400 Subject: Re: "Stay honest!" This was sent to the editor of the online newspaper I webmaster for, http://www.bulletin-ol.com apparentally because the paper displays a liberal attitude towards the subject of UFO. ~Pat~ ============ From: Nancy Kowall <nlkowall@earthlink.net> Reply-To: nlkowall@earthlink.net To: jtoth@bulletin-ol.com Subject: Symbol on UFO For years I have been trying to track down a craft's symbol my 4 yr. old and I saw around 1978 in Pasadena, CA- a strange "Flash Gordon" type of ship with a very obvious "H" on its side (although slightly cursive)- the ship looked almost cartoonish and flatly 2_dimensional, seemingly suspended over the San Gabriels, heading West. Although there were several people in the area and apparently interested in what we were looking at, no one else saw it. We casually talked about 'our sighting' over the years as it was such a clear, vivid vision and it had been my son who was the first to notice it. We even drew pictures that same afternoon and, over the years, made a few sketches to maintain a fresh visual recall. Interestingly, his pictures always showed a very odd perspective, as though he was viewing it in extreme close-up whereas my view was more of a typical upper sky sighting as seen from standing on the ground. One night about 10 yrs. later, I heard him gasp as CNN aired a Moscow UFO story. Apparently a ship had landed near an apartment complex where many children were playing and many of them excitedly described seeing a UFO. One of the kids had even sketched a picture and as he proudly held it up to the camera, we saw that he had drawn a similar ship with the SAME ** H ** ! Then, about a year later, TNT was running a 50's UFO quasi-documentary (OVERLORDS of the SKIES) and I was stunned to see a crude representation of an analogous craft again demonstrating the "H". The narrator mentioned that the ship was said to be from the planet UMMO (!!!). I made a halfhearted effort to track down the video but discovered it was actually a motion film of which no one seemed to have current knowledge. I keep meaning to contact Turner Broadcasting and request a repeat but haven't done so. I later learned of a book with UMMO in the title and had a local bookstore run a search but was told it was out of print. Anytime I have asked about the sighting, I have been told by a few wannabe Ufologists etal that it was actually a famous "hoax" yet allegedly seen by about 15,000 people across the US sometime in the 50's; some say it was the 70's. Actually, I remain a bit of a skeptic (altho we sure saw something!), there seems to be a rather odd Russian link (see ENTERING THE CIRCLE [1996] by Dr. Olga Kharitidi). Have you any knowledge about this particular sighting or symbol? Even called Art Bell last year to ask but rec'd a cursory "Never heard of it..." and got one of his infamous quick disconnects (smile). There's more to the whole story involving both my son and I and some eerie pre and post strange events but, for now, am simply curious as to what you think of the actual symbol. As "Jerry Maguire" might say, if we all "Stay honest!", we just might get a handle on what is really going on.... Search for other documents from or mentioning: pparri | nlkowall |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Behind American Computer Co. From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:45:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 02:17:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computer Co. > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:01:00 +1000 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Dave Everett <deverett@vir.idx.com.au> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Behind American Computer Co. > >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 16:04:17 -0700 > >From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Behind American Computer Co. > >So what exactly is the story with American Computer? > >http://www.american-computer.com/ > >Mr Schwartz confirmed the rumor that a break in had occurred at their > >offices a short time after the data was posted on their web site. He > >stated that a door had been completely ripped off it's hinges and that > >the surrounding motion sensors had been trashed. Mr Schwartz went on to > >say that after OSI had made an investigation of the break-in they > >specualted that it may have been a result of the data on the website. > Obviously the work of amateurs. Smashing a motion sensor is pointless as it > will have already picked up the movement and triggered the alarm. Even if > the detector could be destroyed without detection, the circuit relay would > drop out, once again triggering the alarm. > Dave Everett. I would hardly say this is evidence of the work of amateurs. In fact one might infer quite the opposite, there might be a message in this, think of the significance of ripping a door off of its hinges and smashing the sensors so that the alarm with repetitively, deliberately sound off. Might give one the feeling that who ever did it has contempt for your alarms and was able to operate without fear of detection and with impunity. I imagine it might be hard for these same folks to send you a message if you see in this the work of amateurs. Gary Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | deverett |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Col. Steve's and his trusty crew From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 00:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 02:18:58 -0400 Subject: Col. Steve's and his trusty crew From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) [Col. Steve Wilson] Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:35:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:30:09 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > Note: I want to answer this one, although I seldom do, being that I have > to defend nothing. First, I have sent Hamilton and Boylan copies of my > DD-214 "for their eyes only" since I HAVE been working with them. If > they should break this trust, they would never get one more word out of > me. One wonders if your DD-214 is written in English or Vegan, since you claim to recognize that language (whatever it is). This is one of the funniest messages, I have seen come across the list in a long time. I've been laughing all day. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 UFOs Over N.Y.C. - John Velez (was In The Interest From: HONEYBE100@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 02:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:22:37 -0400 Subject: UFOs Over N.Y.C. - John Velez (was In The Interest Hello Errol and everyone: Hey John! I read your post the other day regarding the multiple sightings you've had here in NYC. Unfortunately, I've accidently deleted it and couldn't include a few snips of it here in this post. I wish there was something I could say, or do to help you feel better. To say the least, I can imagine your fear. The loss of sleep, etc., from fear of what may happen to your loved ones is the worst feeling of all. The multiple sightings you've had and the strangeness of their behavior says a lot. It seems to me that whenever we come up with an opinion as to what is really going on, there are ten questions to accompany each viewpoint. We keep going around in circles and what makes matters worse, is the helpless feeling. I believe that we all feel helpless to some extent, whether we are abductees or researchers. If only the in fighting, or the out fighting stopped, we probably could all get a good grip on what's going on, together. The sightings here in N.Y.C. and in many other places have been rapidly escalating. It's been years since I've seen this happen. Surely, someone must have an opinion concerning this, so we could come up with ten more questions. <G> It might help. John, I know this is a useless post because I haven't said anything that you don't already know. I want you to be happy and healthy...so eat something and get some sleep. Truly, Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: UFO Videotaped At Fernald Uranium Processing From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:53:40 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:59:34 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Videotaped At Fernald Uranium Processing >Date: 26 Aug 97 13:07:16 EDT >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO Videotaped At Fernald Uranium Processing >Plant >>From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:31:49 +0200 >>Subject: UFO Videotaped At Fernald Uranium Processing Plant >Thanks, Stig, >I went to the site and looked at the photos. One, with a light >background, looks like nothing more than common lens flare. >The ones against the dark backgrounds are just blobs, and you >really can't tell anything about them. >The first one, the only one of a clear doughnut shape, is >definitely weird, and that section of the tape bears more study. >However, if this was one event late at night, how come some of >the video has a light background as you would see in daytime >shooting?? >This report creates more questions than it answers. I hope >TASK will make high quality video dupes available for study. >Bob Shell Kenny Young's report doesn't confine itself to any nocturnal time frame if you stick to those facts that can be deduced with any certainty. I urge everyone to check for themselves at http://home.fuse.net/task/FERNALD.htm but will give you Young's rendering of the testimony of the primary witness, a security guard: "The unidentified aircraft, described by the guard as a silent light which moved from north to south before suddenly hovering like a helicopter, performed a banking maneuver that could not be duplicated by conventional aircraft. According to the security guard, the object departed Fernald by lifting to a high elevation and hovering stationary in the sky, appearing as a star until well after daylight." On the other hand one of your "daylight" pictures (055344.jpg) is subtitled: "Still image captured from the videotape which was later acquired, computer analysis by Dale Farmer". suggesting that the "daylight" might act as an instrument in the analysis. Anyhow the four dark pictures in Young's report are tagged "Nov. 23 1994" and the two "daylight" ones "11-23-1994", forming a basis for Young's assertion that two cameras recorded the events. And the problem concerning the "daylight" pictures is easily solved, as they are tagged "05.53.44" and "06.01.20" respectively. All you need to know is the time of sunrise at Fernald which lies in Ohio in about 41 degrees latitude N. Some of the pictures from Kenny Young's report were part of my (very long) original e-mail, but not included when it was forwarded by UFO UpDates, probably to save space. I have attached the most significant ones. [Not to save space but to save subcribers who pay local call tolls from having to download images that are available to them via the Web. -ebk] Stig Search for other documents from or mentioning: stig_agermose |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Aug 97 08:19:04 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:02:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for KKK, SCICOP & Promethius Books A list member sent me this in a private message: >>>>>Just trying to help. It's CSICOP: Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. And: Prometh_E_us Books. <<<<<< Maybe it was missed by many, or maybe I posted it elsewhere and not here, but I have a policy of not spelling these names correctly. This is in keeping with their obvious policy of getting everything wrong when they address the subject of UFOs. Actually, the real name of the organization is CSICOPOUT, which, as someone pointed out, also includes POUT, something they do all too well. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Alfred's Odd Ode #174 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:56:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:03:18 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #174 Apology to MW #174 (For August 28, 1997) The Recent goes back 10,000 years=85 This, still, is a time when we made our own beer! We haven't a clue what went on to here! You can bet that the truth is bizarre, strange and queer! Now away do you drift to the start of the Pleistocene. To a time so remote that that it's lost in a fever dream. Almost two million years; Cenozoic's a scream When we're struck by an asteroid, and whipped into cream! The Pliocene mutters from five million suns. The Miocene shoots twenty two million guns. Oligocene's thirty-seven puts rhyme on the run=85 And Eocene at fifty-three=85We're having too much fun! The Cenozoic's Paleocene was the end of a beginning. The Earth herself was smashed apart to earn us extra innings. The rock was mixed with water and the Earth was different spinning And good for us that glaciers moved at once with out condemning. Sixty times a million years have passed with no small worry. Discussed to here are epochs that began this yearly scurry. We'll talk now in vast periods -- they're more a yearly hurry. The years rush back much faster in a numbing yearly flurry. The Meso is Cretaceous, Jurassic, and Triassic. Two Hundred million some odd years -- our understanding classic. There were animals there living then that were way on past fantastic. They would turn improper students into history fanatics! We're halfway there to the _real_ old stuff -- The Paleozoic is as old as enough. At million six hundred it's as old as the bluffs! It is here's said beginnings of our skin, lungs, and guts. Permian, Carbon, Devonian periods distilled from the moments of time. Silurian, Ordovician, and Cambrian periods pummel roughly at my rhyme. Prior to the Cambrian there was only primal slime. It's been a real ordeal for YOU; _your_ monumental climb! And that's the point, you see, of this whole entire exercise. What's at the end is you, and at the end you overspecialize. You are fearful of what's different, you are sprung to over criminalize, So dependant on each other you've forgotten how to criticize. Half a billion scary years, and it's all come down to you. You're here and heat your water and THEY know you're real, and true. But thinking on your own is what will really make them blue! Because you open up your eyes and then -- get hard as hell to screw! Lehmberg@snowhill.com Nope -- we have no idea what _really_ occurred as early as -- Sweet Jesus -- two hundred years ago! This is in contrast to the wild pontifications of an educational elite that peers down aristocratic noses at the self actualizing, and self educating wandering wonderer <g>. Anyone care to consider what's really going on? You can bet that it's not what you think -- it's not even what _I_ think <g>! We walk away from some of the biggest debates, fellow motes! We don't investigate the necessary unpopular, and that could mean the degeneration of us. We don't cop to our individual responsibility, and that could mean the destruction of us! We don't look at the big picture, and that will be the death of us!=85and all of this because we have been rewriting, or burning outright, the real history as we went along. We are a culture of prevarication! The watchers retch! -- Explore the Alien View? http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/ "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake, wretching with the watchers, at about as far from his beginning as you are from yours. =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1= =B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1 Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us. Consider the big fish in the little pond.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:55:08 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:06:50 -0400 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record > Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 23:43:59 -0400 > From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record > > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 14:11:50 -0700 > > From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> > > Subject: Corso's Qualification Record > > To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > > Greetings, > > I am already getting questions: > > The DA Form 66 does not indicate security clearances. > > Generally, today a Battalion Commander in the Air Defense > > requires a Top Secret/Sensitive Compartamentalized Information > > (TS/SCI) clearance which requires a Special Background > > Investigation. Clearance information is on the clearance > > form itself or on the Officer Record Brief. > > Some of Corso's assignments like Unit Advisor to the National > > Guard in Towson, Maryland from 10 Oct 60 to 5 May 61 *could* > > very well haved been a cover assignment. It could also have > > been an actual assignment. If Corso were such a fast burner > > in the intelligence field, his superiors should have got him > > his promotion to full Colonel. That may have required some > > greesing of skids with the Artillery Branch, but certainly > > not unheard of. > > Speculation on what could, should or would have happen is > > just that: speculation. > > Best regards, > > Jan Aldrich > Judge ye, not that ye be judged. Read that ye may know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Before you start with the Biblical scripture maybe you ought to have a conference with your Rabbi. God expects us to make judgements every day. Divine judgements are left to the Divine. BTW I make quite clear what is speculation and what is fact. More than most people do in their posts. > Care to post your service record? To what effect? I have not made roaringly outrageous claims about my Service. >Would similar commentary apply? What similar commentaries would apply? I am not claiming to be a pivotal character in Western Civilization. Nor do I claim my Service changed the course of histroy. Let's keep focused. However, if my record is so important to ufology, I will be happy to post it. Let's hear how important it is? I think you will get no takers. Jan "Keep Your Eye on the Ball" Aldrich Search for other documents from or mentioning: jan | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Corso's Qualification Record (was: Corso & From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:10:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's Qualification Record (was: Corso & I have looked over Corso's Qualification and have some questions for those who have seen the record. Specifically, does it give a clue as to what he was doing in 1957. I notice that he was assigned to the US Army in Europe beginning in Oct 1957, and that he was a battalion commander in 1957 and 1958. Is there any additional information about that in the record? What unit did he command? Why was the period of command so short? As an interesting aside he entered the Army about the time Jesse Marcel did but Marcel received his promotion in the reserve to LTC much earlier than did Corso. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Question for Linda Cortile From: cm <cmmc@rocketmail.com> [Cassandra McDonough] Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 08:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:47:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Linda Cortile > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:16 (EDT) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto - <updates@globalserve.net> > From: HONEYBE100@aol.com (Linda Cortile) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Londa Cortile snip > Now I have a question for you, Rebecca. > > Since you've used my family name on a public forum, knowing full well > how I fought for years to protect the privacy of my family and me, I > wonder Rebecca...has your skepticism fogged up your ethics and > values? > > Linda Linda, I'd like to point out that the UFO Updates Archive [UFO Mind] site profiles you on their investigator page. Your page is listed as "Linda Napolitano". So naturally people are going to use your real name. Ethics has nothing to do with it. Cassandra
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: EM Effect patterns for Greg Sandow From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:35:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:56:40 -0400 Subject: Re: EM Effect patterns for Greg Sandow As you may know, I am custodian for the Project 1947 EM Effects catalog. I recently made this response to a query, which list members may find interesting... From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com, on 8/21/97 1:17 AM: >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@PRODIGY.NET, on 8/20/97 1:02 PM: >Mark - >As you've studied these EM cases, do you find that the EM effects are >centered on the witness who's the focus of the event? Or do they hit >everyone in the area, even chance observers? If someone drives by at >random while a UFO is in the area, does the car stop? Does it depend >on how far away the UFO is? >Maybe there's no indication either way, but your message got me >wondering. You'll understand this is preliminary, but I have been spending a fair amount of time reading the catalog, so without being formal, I have seen (we'll just use car malfunctions for examples): * Effects prior to a sighting when the sighting is centered on the witness (most frequent)... Unknown NLT 10/12/789:30Torrita, Prov. of Siena, Tuscany, Italy Witness car stalls �as if he had hit against a rubber wall�. Motor and headlights went dead. Observes object ahead of car, incandescent red color disk with dome, 3m long x 2m high, with 3 beams of light from base, one ea. red, orange, blue, illuminating the street like daylight, hovering at the height of the car�s hood. Dome opened in two and two beings emerged gliding down to within 10 cm of ground, remaining suspended at .5m distance.Beings circled slowly around car. Then reentered object by rising through the air. Last being turned and looked at witness before disappearing inside. Object rose vertically about 10m. Witness heard sound like thunderclap, saw a flash, and an instant afterward, object had disappeared. At that moment, motor and headlights started working again. The next day, the witness returned to the site and found two burned spots where the object had hovered. He collected some rocks which were carbonized and very light. Witness felt no heat nor had smelled anything peculiar, but for two days had a strange burning irritation of eyes... a little boy had seen an object in the sky the same night, about 30 mins before witness sighting.Jan Aldrich, 1997 CUFOS trip 8/97 MSC EVA Express Magazine 10/12/78 issue * Effects prior to a sighting which is a fly-by... 17 Sep 19760330hrs Wingen NSWA thirty two year old motor mechanic was directed to repair a vehicle which had broken down and was on the way to the scene in his own vehicle. Suddenly his car started to slow down and the lights went out. He pulled the car up and tried to restart the engine. No ignition, dash or headlights were operating. He noted the speedometer varying from 0-40km/hr even though the vehicle was stationary. He checked under the bonnet but found nothing amiss. He grabbed his torch, but it wouldn't work. It also wouldn't stick to the car even though it was magnetic. He fitted new batteries but it still didn't work. He then noticed a bright light on his left heading his way. It became brighter and after two minutes it was seen clearly as a roundish object only some 4m off the ground. It passed directly over his car and gave out a slight amount of heat. No sound or any distinguishing features were noted. Its speed was 40km/hr and it passed off into the distance. As he touched the fan belt the engine started itself. It just as quickly stopped. Then the headlights and radio came on by themselves. Finally he drove off with all systems operating. (UFO Research New South Wales.322 17 Sep 1976 Wingen NSW CE2 0330hrs OriginalUFORNSW * Effects after object seen sighting centered on witness... August 13, 197010:50 P. M.Near Haderclas, Denmark."Witness Police Officer Evald Hansen Maarup was driving home in his patraol car when suddenly the car was surrounded by a bluish-white light, and the car engine stalled.The car headlights went out.The light from the object was neonlike.The 2-way radio failed. No sound was hear from the object.After the come of light disappeared int a hold in the bottom ofthe object, the car's electrical system returned to normal."OriginalSKYLOOK, #48, November 1971, page 20. (From UFOLOG #76.) * Effects after witness comes across object otherwise engaged... March 81967 Leominster, Massachusetts Witness got out of car to observe hovering UFO.Car radio, lights and engine failed.Driver felt shock and was paralyzed. UFO emitted humming sound. OriginalUFO Investigator, Vol. 3, N. 12, p. 7. * Effects during a fly-by (hardest to find)... August 16 1965U. S. Route 58, VirginiaUFO passes over highway. Dozens of automobiles were reported stalled for a half-minute Original Flying Saucer Review, Vol. 12, no. 2, p. 10 * Effects on departure... Oct. 31, 1954 Corrompu (France) Near Long, P. Petit and his employee, Mr. Tillier, with a shop owner, Mr. Pecquet, saw an oval object on the ground. When it took off, the lights of a tractor went out. It measured about 4.5 m, emitted a bright light similar to a welder's torch. It came back, turned, and flew to the south-west. It made the same noise as a swarm of bees.(Personal). Mark Cashman 8/16/97Vallee, Magonia 323 * Broad area effects... 3/20/66 1:25amUSCG station at Surfside TX Several crew members observed disk over town during power failure. One witness noted house interior lights on shore blinked on and off rapidly and appeared to get very bright and bluish. All power went out, and there was a flash of blue light. That witness saw a whitish glow apparently 300-500 feet AGL. Other witness after power failure saw a large oval object in the sky, glowing orange with a blue halo. The blue halo then vanished. Binoculars were used and witness could see �ports or windows� of a dark orange glow. Observed for 1 min, after which object ascended from 500 feet AGL to 1000 feet AGL , orange glow grew larger, blue flash, orange glow subsided, and object departed at high speed, gone in a few seconds.Jan Aldrich CUFOS trip 19978/97 MSC CUFOS e4c5 20 mar (may?) 66 - Original CG report * There have been a few cases where the effects occurred initially to one witness, and then another witness subsequently was stopped. These are VERY rare... 14 Dec 1987 Launceston TASA man noticed lights behind his car, then later they passed over his car and landed on the road ahead. His car lights and engine failed. He stopped some 15m from the object which he said looked like an egg, 5-6m wide and 2m high. He left the car and hid. The man said the car was then pulled some 10m down the road towards the object. Another vehicle came the other way and its lights failed although the engine kept running. The object then rose and left. 424 14 Dec 1987 Launceston TAS CE2 OriginalTUFOIC The most common vehicle case goes something like this: Car stalls, headlights fail. Witness then observes object, often hovering in front of car, other times approaching, sometimes by side of road. When object departs, car either spontaneously begins functioning or can be restarted. There is no other vehicle around. Car stalling / electrical failures appear to be most common within say 200 m. Beyond that distance, radio / TV interference is most common. However, there are many reports of approaches withing 200 m where no effects were reported (that's one of the fascinating things about my current work culling the Magonia catalog for EM cases). It would be interesting to take a control set of non-effect cases and compare them to similar proximity / behavior effect cases. I have also been finding a number of "prickling" and "electric shock" accounts in Magonia. These are sometimes (maybe 50 / 50) paralysis cases, though the paralysis is usually afterward. Interesting, isn't it? ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art and writing mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch International Conference From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:07:41 -0400 Subject: Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch International Conference Subj: Re: UFO UpDate: SKYWATCH: Nov. 15 & 16 1st Skywatch International Conference Date: 97-08-27 14:49:26 EDT To: updates@globalserve.net In a message dated 97-08-27 13:08:48 EDT, Bill Hamilton wrote: > and Guy Kirkwood will > tell us about the Air Force pursuit of the UFO evidence (and he can > now prove he was an Air Force pilot despite Stan Friedman) This is exactly what is wrong and always has been wrong with this field of --- UFO "research". No matter how many times a proven hoaxer or liar is "exposed" they continually pop back up, and people that should know better...............don't. Forget Stan Friedman, in 1992 in Volume 7 Number 3 of UFO Magazine, I wrote the definitive "expose" on Guy Kirkwood-Mel Noel-Noall Bryce Cornwell (pick one, he has used them all) and before it even went to press "Mel or Guy" came by my home where I showed the story to him. At that time he had been promising to provide his Air Force credentials to me....for well over a year. He did not have any....as a matter of fact I was not the first person to do an expose on Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell. Bob Dornan, the former Congressman from Orange Co. Calf. had Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell on his Television program "Tempo" in October of 1969 where he admitted he had never been an Air Force pilot. Dornan, a former Super Sabre pilot was angered by Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell passing himself off as a pilot and former serviceman. This was not long after Dornan's brother Don had conducted a secret investigation on Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell for LIFE Magazine because of Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell's UFO claims. The entire expose is available on UFO Magazine's Web Site at www.ufomagazine.com, looking under K in the photo library, clicking on Guy Kirkwood's photo and it will take you right to the story. Lest anyone think I do not like Noel-Kirkwood-Cornwell, let me say that in all my dealings with him, he was always the perfect gentleman, funny, humorous, and quite charming. However most con-men are. Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com PS This field will NEVER BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY UNTIL THE PEOPLE IN THE UFO FIELD RESEARCH INSTEAD OF BELIEVING EVERYTHING THAT COMES DOWN THE PIKE.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Re: Circles Phenomenon... From: psa@direct.ca (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:45:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:11:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Circles Phenomenon... >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Circles Phenomenon... >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:03:32 -0500 (CDT) >I didn't say I *had* made any "solid judgement". I'm open to the >possibility that some circles are real. After investrigating dozens >of circles, this one didn't look that good of a case to me. I have since spoken with a couple other reporters, one from Global TV in Saskatoon, who informed me that they took the aerial footage shown on the news broadcasts; the first formation of three circles had already been swathed by the farmer by that time. Therefore, one cannot make a good judgement as to the original "quality" of the formation. Another reporter, from BBS TV in Yorkton, was one of the first people in it (before it was cut down); she told me the circles looked very neatly swirled and flattened. She is providing me with photos and video, which I should have shortly. That will give a better idea as to their actual original condition. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply a "solid judgement" on your part, it just seems that, as is often the case with the phenomenon in this country, the "UFO community", in general, seems ot tend to take these events less seriously than they used to, in the wake of "Doug and Dave" and other hoaxing claims (yes, there is hoaxing going on, but there is also evidence for a real, incredible phenomenon). I recognize that you have done a lot of your own investigations in the past, as have other individuals, and that is to be commended. I'm just saying that sometimes, even if a case looks suspect initially, it still pays to dig a bit. The reporter from Global TV also informed me that they found a second formation a few days later (August 11), as they were filming the first one (found August 7). This one is a single circle on the same Indian Reservation (Kawacatoose), but in a separate field. It had not been reported per se, from what I can tell at this point. Both of these reports are now on the CPR-Canada web site (address below). The RCMP are now saying the circles were a case of wind damage or lodging, in their opinion. I do think there are probably a fair number of formations which never get reported, period. We have a much larger land area to deal with than in England or Holland, for example (Holland now seems to be in second place behind England for number and quality of formations). >Well, I like many people, have trouble with Levengood's >analyses, so this doesn't mean very much, I'm afraid. But I keep >searching for good evidence and incontrovertible evidence of >anomalies, so I keep watching for reports of anomalies in the >media. One can quibble until the cows come home about Levengood's analysis specifics, the fact is however, that there are physical changes to the plants frommany formations (both simple circles *and* complex "pictograms") which are clearly visible to anyone, ie. the plant nodes being blown open from the inside outwards, shrunken and dehydrated seeds (I have some I use in talks (along with node samples) - they are *very* dehydrated compared to normal, healthy seeds, etc. Until someone can *prove* to me that simple hoaxing can cause such effects, not to mention countless reports of camera / battery / video camera failures and compass spinning inside formations, photographic anomalies, small globes of light often seen in the fields, people experiencing nausea and headaches, animals acting strangely or refusing to enter circles, etc., etc., etc., (all of which would seem to possibly support the idea of a residual energy of some sort being present in and around the formations) then we have a mystery yet unsolved, be it natural or of intelligent origin. If even only some of the complex pictogram patterns are indeed part of this, then I feel we are dealing an intelligent phenomenon, perhaps manipulating a natural energy source. Levengood does provide some evidence, I think, of how these are being made, in scientific terms, but we still do not know by who(?) or why. Even the simple circles are still important. Some may indeed be the result of natural, poorly understood atmospheric processes. But the incredible fractal patterns, for example? I doubt it. BTW, I'm open to, and encourage testing by any reputable labs. The more the better, for comparison studies. Also, the media? The media, for the most part, do *not* report adequately on the many anaomalies that are associated with this phenomenon. >That's too bad. The aerial shots showed that the crop had >already been swathed, too, so that would hamper further >investigation and testing. It's odd that they're not allowing >investigators there. I've been invited onto reservation land >many times to look into cases of various kinds. I wonder what >their reasoning might be. Simple. The farmer *was* allowing reporters, the RCMP, etc. in at first, until his field was being overrun by people from the reservation tromping and driving through it. Then he swathed the formation and that was it. Nobody else apparently (researchers) investigated before it was cut down (if any even knew about it beforehand, of course). Nothing odd about it, really. Of course I realize that you are in Manitoba, but nobody in Saskatchewan has done any follow-up, from what I can tell at this point, other than the RCMP (from Panashi detachment) and news reporters. MUFON seems to have virtually disappeared in that province. There's Daniel Clairmont, of course, who has done excellent investigations of his own, but he told me the site was too far from him to be worth the trip. He saw the same clip on TV that you did, and also decided it wasn't too good of a case (as it had already been swathed anyway). We need some good formations that we can hear about in time to get to before they are destroyed, like in previous years. >Hmmm. It was CTV, probably coming from their Regina or >Saskatoon affiliate. No other network carried it that I saw, and >nothing appeared in any newspaper. Because I had just been >surfing channels, I didn't have a videotape ready. There have been a couple of newspaper articles now, in the Leader Post - August 18 and the Star Phoenix - August 16. Possibly also the small local paper of Panashi. I did confirm that BBS TV and Global TV covered it, as mentioned above, going out to their affiliates. >Keep up the great work, though! Your dedication and >investigative action is exactly what this field (pun intended) >needs! Thanks, I do appreciate the compliments. And likewise, re your excellent and on-going UFO investigations in this country. Paul Anderson Director Circles Phenomenon Research Canada Affiliate of Circles Phenomenon Research International Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3310 Director The Millennium Group Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 E-Mail: psa@direct.ca Web: http://mypage.direct.ca/p/psa/ (under construction)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Corso's Qualification Record From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:15:08 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:14:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's Qualification Record >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:33:44 -0400 (EDT) >Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:10:51 -0400 >Subject: Re: Corso's Qualification Record (was: Corso & Hi Kevin: Here is a run down of his 1957-58 assignments. Some of the entries are a little unclear. From 21 Oct 56 to Feb 57 He attended SAMOA Course at Ft Bliss, TX. (SAMOA---Surface to Air Missile Officer Advance Course.) From 7 Feb 57 to 8 Mar 57 He was Inspector of Training. at Fort Bliss, TX. (Probably a snowbird assignment waiting for his transfer to Germany.) From 8 Mar 57 to 19 Apr 57 Umpire with temporary duty to Fort Polk, La. (home station was Ft Bliss, TX) From 19 Apr 57 to 1 May 57 Instpector of Training at Ft Bliss, TX From 20 Jun 57 to 13 Sep 57 He is attending two courses at Ft Bliss Battalion Commander's course and Group Excecutive Officer Course. From 13 Sep to 31 Oct 57 Enroute to Germany. He is listed as 22 days non-rated days. Probably leave. Then, he probably was assigned and went to his USAREUR orientations courses and USAREUR's short Bn and Bde Commanders' course. From 31 Oct 57 to 17 Sep 58. He is Battalion Commander of 552d Anti-Aircraft Artillery Missile Battalion (Nike) From 17 Sep 58 to 26 Mar 59. He is listed as Battalion Commander of the 3d Missile Battalion, 71st Artillery. (The entry did not reproduce well, but it looks like it says Official redesignation.) For the rest of his tour he is assigned to 7th Army Support Command as either Special Asst to the Chief of Staff or Inspector General. >I have looked over Corso's Qualification and have some >questions for those who have seen the record. >Specifically, does it give a clue as to what he was >doing in 1957. I notice that he was assigned to the >US Army in Europe beginning in Oct 1957, and that >he was a battalion commander in 1957 and 1958. Is >there any additional information about that in the >record? What unit did he command? Why was the >period of command so short? Tours of 18 to 24 months is about the average for a Bn Cdr in Europe, the other half of the tour is ususally a staff position somewhere. >As an interesting aside he entered the Army about >the time Jesse Marcel did but Marcel received his >promotion in the reserve to LTC much earlier than did >Corso. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Corso's Qualification Record From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:00:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Corso's Qualification Record In a message dated 08/28/97 17:08:15, you wrote: >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:33:44 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Corso's Qualification Record >I have looked over Corso's Qualification and have some >questions for those who have seen the record. >Specifically, does it give a clue as to what he was >doing in 1957. I notice that he was assigned to the >US Army in Europe beginning in Oct 1957, and that >he was a battalion commander in 1957 and 1958. Is >there any additional information about that in the >record? What unit did he command? Why was the >period of command so short? KEVIN & GREETINGS TO THE LIST -- According to Corso's official record of assignments: (A) From 21 Oct 56 thru 6 Feb 57, Corso was a student officer in antiaircraft guided missile school, Fort Bliss, Texas ("StuO Assoc SAMOA (44-O-4B) #1-57 [TDY BtryD, 2dBn (StuOff) SchBrig, AAA&GM Sch (4054) FtBliss, Tex]"). (B) From 7 Feb 57 thru 19 Jun 57 he was assigned to Hqs. 1st Guided Missile Group (SAM), Ft. Bliss, serving as Inspector of Training, with one TDY (8 Mar - 18 Apr) to Ft. Polk, La., as an umpire during Exercise King Cole. (C) From 20 Jun 57 to 26 Aug 57 he was battalion commander and group executive officer with Hqrs. 1st GMGp at Ft. Bliss, with TDY to Hqrs 2d GMGp, Ft. Bliss. (D) From 27 Aug 57 - 12 Sep 57, he was a batallion commander with US Army Europe, his assignment described thus: "BnComdr,O/S#2TEYw/BtryA1stGMBn(SAM) 1st GMGpFtBlissTex." (E) 13 Sep 57 - 30 Oct 57, he was "casual," enroute to USAREUR. (Presumably, the assignment described at "D" was training and training with the unit he commanded in Germany.) (F) 31 Oct 57 - 25 Mar 59, he commanded the 552d AAA Missile Battalion (Nike) in Germany (unit redesignated 3d Missile Bn, 71st Artillery, 17 Sep 58). (G) On 26 Mar 59, he became special assistant to the chief of staff, Seventh Army. Hope this helps. -- KARL, PATRON OF PLACITAS
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Question for Linda Cortile From: HONEYBE100@aol.com [Linda Cortile] Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:28:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Question for Linda Cortile >From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu (Barbara Becker) >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:39:32 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto - <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Linda Cortile Hello Errol & everybody! Barbara Becker wrote: >Linda: >I am not even a major player in the UFOlogy game but I knew >your name. Your name has been common knowledge for >years. If your name was in print its in public domain. If you >wanted annonymity you shouldnt have put your story on the >bookracks. MOST abductees dont! >Barbara Barbara: I can tell from what you have written that you're the ONLY player in what YOU think is a game. Most of us think that Ufology is a serious matter. So, you may be playing all by yourself. My name is 'not' in the public domain and most people 'don't' know who I am. Just because you know, doesn't mean that everyone within the UFO communtiy does. There are a lot of people who have never heard of me. Most abductees certainly do want anonymity and they get it. However, there are a few unlucky ones whose names were made public by the likes of the debunkers. In turn, tactics like that drive abductees underground. Never to seek help, or to report their experiences. That's right! They keep everything close to their chests and walk around frightened and unsure of their mental health for the rest of their lives. Some of those who have had their identities exposed, lost their jobs, friends, and marriages too. That's not to mention the ridicule. So, when an abductee has lost his/her anonymity and not by choice...remember the probable consequences not only for the victim, but for his/her husband and children. They too, are living sacrifices. It doesn't matter if my case was documented in Hopkins' book and put on book shelves. My family name is not used. I have a pseudonym for a reason, as most abductees do when they're portrayed in a book. In the eight years that I have been involved with ufology, I've been TV interviewed maybe only 6 times or less (in shadow). That's pretty good considering the notoriety of my case. I'm not in the habit of speaking for anyone else, but I'm sure that even Rebecca and others would agree. So, get with it girl! My case has been made public, but it doesn't mean that my family and I should be made into sacrifical lambs! Linda Cortile
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 UFO Beliefs From: "Anthony Chippendale" <ufos@chipp.clara.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:53:12 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:28:52 -0400 Subject: UFO Beliefs Hi there, I am currently working on a magazine article about UFO theories and beliefs. I would appreciate any ideas that you may have on the origin of UFOs. Thanks, Anthony Chippendale, English Director of PUFORI (http://www.pufori.org/)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch International From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Thursday, 28 August 1997 2:10pm MT Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:30:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch International >From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:07:13 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch International Conference >Subj: Re: UFO UpDate: SKYWATCH: Nov. 15 & 16 1st Skywatch >International > Conference >Date: 97-08-27 14:49:26 EDT >To: updates@globalserve.net > In a message dated 97-08-27 13:08:48 EDT, Bill Hamilton wrote: >> and Guy Kirkwood will >> tell us about the Air Force pursuit of the UFO evidence (and he >> can now prove he was an Air Force pilot despite Stan Friedman) > This is exactly what is wrong and always has been wrong with > this field of --- UFO "research". No matter how many times > a proven hoaxer or liar is "exposed" they continually pop back > up, and people that should know better...............don't. There is some apparently contradictory evidence that Mr. Ecker may have overlooked --- we are looking into that now. Some people may be a little hasty in research and some matters need to be re-examined when new evidence comes to light. If what we find proves a further hoax, then we will let you all know. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Search for other documents from or mentioning: william.hamilton |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 NY UFO's single frame capture From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:34:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:34:31 -0400 Subject: NY UFO's single frame capture Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 17:08:08 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: NY UFO's single frame capture Hello again, In my first post I wrote, ========================== >Hiya Errol, hi All, >I have been carefully analyzing single frames from the video I took >on July 26,1997. I will release several of the more interesting frames >when I am finished. Here's the first installment. These images are >intended for the private study and edification of those who participate >in the UFO UpDates list. They are not to be reproduced or republished >anywhere else without my express written permission. >sfc-1 Single frame capture #1 is the seventh frame of video from the >beginning of the recording. It clearly shows the bottom of the craft >as it passes overhead (to my left.) As you can plainly see there are no >wings, no engines, and it was silent, no sound was heard as it passed >overhead. >sfc-2 Is an enlargement and enhancement of the original frame. I zoomed in >on the unknown, marqueed around the image, (the box shape surrounding UFO) >desaturated the image, (removed all color) and set the auto levels ( to >enhance definition) What you see is what you get. It's a round shaped >aircraft. There are other frames where you can see the 'top' portion of the >craft. It turns out to have been two disc shaped objects (one right on top >of the other) flying in a very tight formation together. ========================== Here's installment number 2. I mentioned that the object at one point appeared to be two UFO's flying one on top of the other. Here is the video frame that shows this the best. sfc-3 Original frame.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 'Magonia' Catalogue On Web From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:24:10 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:19:37 -0400 Subject: 'Magonia' Catalogue On Web Jacques Vallee's excellent catalog "A Century Of UFO Landings (1868-1968)" from "Passport To Magonia" (ISBN 0-8092-3796-2) is now available for your perusal at The Temporal Doorway, thanks to the scanning and OCR efforts of Don Allen and HTML reformatting by Mark Cashman. Permission for the display of this catalog was previously obtained by Don Allen. For those unfamiliar with this landmark work, this catalog consists of 923 landing summaries with dates, times, and sources. Many of these cases are obscure and their references are difficult to find, while others are among the most famous and well-studied cases in the field. You can visit the catalog at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/magonia.htm In addition, nearly 10% of the catalog consists of EM effect cases which have been integrated into the Project 1947 EM Effects catalog. You can find that catalog at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/47emecat.htm ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 UK TV Producer Seeks Info on Chupas From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 17:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:51:09 -0400 Subject: UK TV Producer Seeks Info on Chupas A UK TV producer now in Miami and traveling to Puerto Rico, Mexico, possibly Brasil and Japan, as well as other countries is looking for information on the Chupacabras, human and animal mutilations. He and his team will interview witnesses, gather information and evidence. The program is intended to be an in depth investigative documentary. All positions are welcomed. Deadline: August, Saturday 30, 1997 10:00 AM Francisco
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Strange lights From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:13:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:53:27 -0400 Subject: Strange lights Hello list members, My question is a simple but dignified one. What are all these small white lights, that seem to be traveling effortlessly, that I see almost every night I stargaze? Could they be satelites? Balloons? Any suggestion are welcome. Clint Stone Ky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: UFO Beliefs From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:46:07 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:04:54 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs > From: "Anthony Chippendale" <ufos@chipp.clara.net> > Organization: UFOs Online > To: skywatch@phoenic.net > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:53:12 +0000 > Subject: UFO Beliefs > Hi there, > I am currently working on a magazine article about UFO theories and > beliefs. I would appreciate any ideas that you may have on the origin > of UFOs. > Thanks, > Anthony Chippendale, > English Director of PUFORI (http://www.pufori.org/) Anthony: I think you need to better define your question. Most UFOs turn out to be IFOs. Are you concerned with what is left? Do you mean are some UFOs alien spacecraft? Are some UFOs 4th dimensional space times travelers? Are some UFOs Secret military vehicles? Or are you asking from which star system some UFOs originate? All flying saucers are UFOs. Very few UFOs are flying saucers. I am convinced some originate on a planet around either Zeta l or Zeta 2 Reticuli.as described in The Zeta Reticuli Incident. What theories? Motivation? Mode of propulsion? Reasons for coverups? Reasons for visiting Earth? Reasons for not landing on the white house lawn? Asking the right questions is a very important part of trying to find truth.Sounds like you have not read much of the scientific literature. You might look at the 10 pages of references to scientific UFO materials at the back of TOP SECRET/MAJIC, l996, Marlowe and Co. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch International From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:55:41 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:08:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch International > From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com > Date: Thursday, 28 August 1997 2:10pm MT > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Guy Kirkwood and Sky > >From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] > >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:07:13 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch International Conference > >Subj: Re: UFO UpDate: SKYWATCH: Nov. 15 & 16 1st Skywatch > > International Conference > >Date: 97-08-27 14:49:26 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > In a message dated 97-08-27 13:08:48 EDT, Bill Hamilton wrote: > >> and Guy Kirkwood will > >> tell us about the Air Force pursuit of the UFO evidence (and he > >> can now prove he was an Air Force pilot despite Stan Friedman) > > This is exactly what is wrong and always has been wrong with > > this field of --- UFO "research". No matter how many times > > a proven hoaxer or liar is "exposed" they continually pop back > > up, and people that should know better...............don't. > There is some apparently contradictory evidence that Mr. Ecker > may have overlooked --- we are looking into that now. Some people > may be a little hasty in research and some matters need to be > re-examined when new evidence comes to light. If what we find > proves a further hoax, then we will let you all know. > Sincerely, > Bill Hamilton Bill: Just about everything Guy told the group of us (Including you) around a table in the Lobby of the LA Airport Hilton was a lie. He did not graduate from Cheshire Academy. There are letters from the Air Force saying he was never, under any of the 3 names, an Air Force Pilot. United Airlines Rep of the ALPA said he was never a member. The FAA said he was not licensed as a commerical pilot or multi-engine pilot even though he claimed to have flown DC8s for United for many years. He claimed he became a jet pilot with no college. NO WAY. He couldn't find his DD 214 though Linda Howe gave him plenty of time. Ditto his ALPA card. He admitted on TV that he was not a Jet Pilot in the USAF. Yes he is charming... and a con man. Stan Friedman Search for other documents from or mentioning: fsphys |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:50:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:12:47 -0400 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:55:08 -0700 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record > > Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 23:43:59 -0400 > > From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record > > > Speculation on what could, should or would have happen is > > > just that: speculation. > > > Best regards, > > > Jan Aldrich > > Judge ye, not that ye be judged. > Read that ye may know the truth, and the truth will set > you free. > Before you start with the Biblical scripture maybe you > ought to have a conference with your Rabbi. God expects > us to make judgements every day. Divine judgements are > left to the Divine. > BTW I make quite clear what is speculation and what > is fact. More than most people do in their posts. > > > Care to post your service record? > > To what effect? I have not made roaringly outrageous claims > about my Service. > >Would similar commentary apply? > What similar commentaries would apply? I am not claiming to > be a pivotal character in Western Civilization. Nor do I claim > my Service changed the course of histroy. Let's keep focused. > However, if my record is so important to ufology, I will be > happy to post it. Let's hear how important it is? I think > you will get no takers. > Jan "Keep Your Eye on the Ball" Aldrich Jan, I think I was being a bit unfair to you alone and I would like to ask you and everyone on the list to come clean with their various intelligence backgrounds. As a true private citizen I feel a bit overmatched by all the "spooky" background histories of the individuals running around in "ufology". The general readers, posters and lurkers of this list and may well wonder as I do why individuals with past or present intelligence affiliations have such an active participation in "ufology", a field which is thought of by the public as fringey or worse. For example how did your background or that of Karl Pflock lead you into this area? On the other hand as a matter of focus I don't see where Col. Corso has claimed to be a pivotal character in Western civilization, although Dennis Stacy has created the impression that he has made such a claim. One might instead argue that he was but a small cog in a well staffed, well funded organization or loosely associated operations. As an individual with experience in a Fortune 500 technical firm responsible for new product development, one thing I can tell you first hand is that the role Corso describes in technology transfer was significant but a snmall part of the overall process. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Report On CIA's UFO Cover-Up: New Details From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 05:45:03 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 02:07:25 -0400 Subject: Report On CIA's UFO Cover-Up: New Details In an interview with Parascope's Dossier Gerald Haines revealed new details concerning his report on the CIA's role in the UFO cover-up. The entire article can be found at: www.parascope.com/articles/0897/ufolies.html but these are the quotes that I consider most relevant: The article, "CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-1990," was prepared by Gerald Haines, a historian now working for the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) who "did the report when he worked for the CIA," according to an NRO public affairs officer contacted by Dossier. The NRO said that Haines is "declining interview opportunities" about his Studies in Intelligence article, but Dossier reached him on the telephone nevertheless. Haines told Dossier that his report was commissioned by President Clinton's first CIA director, James Woolsey, who "wanted to be sure he had all the facts" on the CIA and UFOs after a question on the topic was put to him during a radio interview. According to Haines, a classified version of his report was issued by the CIA about two years ago. He says that the CIA "removed very little" information from the study before releasing it to the public, and that the still-classified portions of the report "had nothing to do with UFOs" directly. *** Haines goes on to allege that "over half of all UFO reports from the late 1950s through the 1960s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights (namely the U-2) over the United States." The Air Force, he says, was forced "to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project." What, exactly, did Haines mean when he referred to "over half of all UFO reports"? Were these the reports logged by the Air Force's Project Blue Book? When asked these questions by Dossier, Haines said he could not comment. When asked if this was because he would have to discuss sensitive information to answer correctly, or if it was just too long of a story to go into, Haines replied: "Both." When asked about the allegations in the Haines report, an Air Force spokesman, Brig. Gen. Ronald Sconyers, told the press that "I cannot confirm or deny that we lied" about UFO sightings. Though we do not know the specific basis for Haines' claim, if his account is correct, then this attempt to hide the spy flights from U.S. sky-watchers is perhaps the greatest program of official lies about UFO sightings ever documented. *** Haines concludes from his investigation that "while Agency concern over UFOs was substantial until the early 1950s, CIA has since paid only limited and peripheral attention to the problem." However, there are hints in his report that the some serious CIA work on the UFO front continued for decades. In the 1970s and '80s, for example, the OSI's Life Science Division had "counterintelligence concerns that the Soviets and the KGB were using U.S. citizens and UFO groups to obtain information on sensitive U.S. weapons development programs (such as the Stealth aircraft), the vulnerability of the U.S. air-defense network to penetration by foreign missiles mimicking UFOs, and evidence of Soviet advanced technology associated with UFO sightings." Haines elaborated a bit on this for Dossier, explaining that some CIA officials were worried that "the Soviets could infiltrate these organizations and establish an information corridor" that would provide insight on classified aircraft. Given this potentially serious "counterintelligence concern," did the CIA then monitor or investigate civilian UFO groups in the United States? When asked this question, Haines adamantly assured Dossier that "the CIA does not conduct domestic operations," and that he saw "nothing in the record that would indicate" such an effort. However, he said that "on a couple of occasions," the CIA "recommended that the FBI look into" the activities of private UFO groups.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Roswell Secrets revealed on American Computer From: mailbox@ix.netcom.com [Bob Wolf] Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 23:52:30 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 02:28:25 -0400 Subject: Roswell Secrets revealed on American Computer Hi, I thought you would be interesting in knowing the entire story of the ACC site, and break in. So, I have been asked to submit it to you, so that no further disinformation will result. I was asked by a friend who works at ACC: ==== STATEMENT from the American Computer Company to "SKYWATCH": As always, American Computer wishes to warn you that any investigation into the break in at their offices is "incomplete" and at this time "inconclusive as to the perpetrators and as to the purpose". a) American Computer Company posted the stories on their website three weeks ago at http://www.american-computer.com and http://www.american-computer.com/roswell.htm b) The following Sunday night about a week later, after 5:30 PM and before 5:30 AM Monday, someone broke into the ACC building by, apparently (at least this is the conclusion drawn by those present at the scene the next day): i) using equipment which enabled them to somehow get past the magnetically locked doors, and through the key card entries, without setting off silent alarms - only one recorded card access, an exit attempt without an id, of a suspicious nature was found, but no CARD ID was recorded by the Computer, purportedly; ii) getting PAST motion detectors in the lobby and going up stairs to the floor on which they reside; iii) getting PAST motion detectors in the upstairs lobby, proceeding to their heavy plate glass, locked doors, and; iv) without attracting any attention, (we are talking about a Corporate structure here, with no guards present after 5:30 PM) smashing a huge, heavy duty floor to ceiling plate glass and lexan door, to enter their offices. It was rather seriously torn to pieces. c) A few days prior to that break in, a mysterious telephone truck was chased off the company parking lot when someone was discovered by ACC's security department crosswiring the telephone lines in the floor and basement telephone rooms. d) A few days prior to that break in, wierd faxes reportedly arrived at ACC headquarters TECH SUPPORT FAX, which resembled messages from classified military equipment, computer equipment which the person(s) partially responsible for the Roswell story on the ACC website had designed under contract a decade earlier. e) Those faxes were reported to the Military authorities, who apparently did not respond to the reports, at first. f) When ACC returned to work on Monday AM that week, it was found that during the breakin the Sunday night before, while a few offices had been randomly entered and a few innocuous things removed from them, a CDROM radio, a clock, an old Laptop (almost as if to point the finger in that direction) and about $5.00 in change from an honor bar, however: several keyperson offices were thoroughly searched, including vandalization during search and rummaging through recorded CDs, XRAY proof containers containing tapes, file cabinets, drawers, and desks. However, valuables in plain sight (endorsed checks, gold chains, purses, extremely expensive computers by the dozen) were all ignored, and the only OBJECTS taken from these keyperson offices were a couple of Car Phones being charged in desk chargers, both of which were inactive and valueless. Fingerprint tests were inconclusive, on the entries, objects thrown all over the floor and cabinets/desks which had been searched. We note the difference between the valuables taken, and the effort and cost it took to get in and out unobserved, in a Corporate Park regularly patrolled by very aggressive law enforcement (with limited road egress). g) About a day after the break in, when it was reported to a Pentagon official that the break in had occured, The US Air Force elected to send an OSI team to the site to gather information. No additional information is available about this event. ACC asks that you pass on the following: Please be careful how you interpret information posted by third parties about these events, as it is important, ACC feels, that any information that is discussed or disclosed about these matters be factual, given the subject matter, so that wild speculation does not occur and so that unsubstantiated rumors do not block out the truth, hope against hope. American Computer Company has indicated that it is both unable to verify the story on its website and unable to dispute the facts alleged in its website, at this time. ACC is openly soliciting the world's opinion, through a form on its website, each and every one of which it will endeavor to respond to. ===== END OF STATEMENT Now, back to my regularly scheduled participation in this list! -- Bob Wolf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: Strange Lights From: "H. Buck Buchanan" <buck7@raex.com> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 01:14:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:56:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Lights > From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:13:02 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Strange lights > > Hello list members, > My question is a simple but dignified one. What are all these small > white lights, that seem to be traveling effortlessly, that I see almost > every night I stargaze? Could they be satelites? Balloons? Any > suggestion are welcome. > > Clint Stone > Ky/MUFon Hi Clint, Based on your limited description, I'm going with your first suggestion: satellites. I associate with a group of amateur astronomers and we routinely spot various satellites, most of them in polar orbits. Some are quite bright, while others are barely visible and sometimes only with binoculars. Depending on the time of night, a satellite will either maintain a steady brightness or it will all of a sudden fade out. That is a function of the sun's angle with respect to the satellite and the viewing location, since it is merely reflecting sunlight. A satellite appears to travel in a straight line and doesn't make any crazy anomalous movements. Sometimes they appear to be flashing, but that is only because they are spinning. Hope this helps. Buck
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: Strange lights From: huffel@qi3.com (Ella Huff) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:59:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange lights >From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:13:02 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Strange lights >Hello list members, >My question is a simple but dignified one. What are all these small >white lights, that seem to be traveling effortlessly, that I see almost >every night I stargaze? Could they be satelites? Balloons? Any >suggestion are welcome. > Clint Stone >Ky/MUFON I'm glad Clint asked this question. We've watched these fast moving small lights nearly every night in the summer since I was small. They seem to move way too fast for satellites. They're not passenger jets. We've seen them at the same time as jets were moving across the sky, and you can see they are traveling much faster AND lower than the jets. They are quite small when you're looking for them--about the size of the smaller visible stars that you can see with the naked eye. Our family has made a habit of sitting out nearly every evening when there's a clear sky, and watch for them. With enough eyes watching the sky, it seems that we can point out an average of 1 every 3 or 4 minutes. Before anyone writes these off as merely "satellites", please take this into consideration: In the last 4 years we have seen 3 of them make sharp right angle turns in the direction they were heading. They were each on seperate occasions. We've seen two of them that gave the impression of emitting sparks which looked as though they were having problems. And many were being watched with binoculars moving across the sky when they'd suddenly blink out. No trace of a light. Each time this happened, they were nearing a jet's path. Then shortly after passing the jet, they'd blink back on again. The average person probably doesn't notice these little buggers. They're small and fast. But they're there. Most of the time they are traveling in a straight direction, without any change in speed. Thanks Clint for asking about these. I've been too reluctant to ask for fear of ridicule. I was afraid they'd be simply dismissed as satellites. But if a person spends time watching, they'll see what we're talking about. Thanks to anyone who can help with this. Ella
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 00:35:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:02:27 -0400 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:50:26 -0400 > From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification > Record > Jan, > I think I was being a bit unfair to you alone and I would > like to ask you and everyone on the list to come clean with > their various intelligence backgrounds. > As a true private citizen I feel a bit overmatched by all > the "spooky" background histories of the individuals running > around in "ufology". Maybe you see "spooky" backgrounds where none exist? > The general readers, posters and lurkers of this list and > may well wonder as I do why individuals with past or present > intelligence affiliations have such an active participation > in "ufology", a field which is thought of by the public as > fringey or worse. UFO sightings have long been and will continue to bea question to be studied/noted by intelligence groups. Perhaps one notices what a confusing subject UFOs are when in intelligence? After all, I think we all probably agree that someone with a background in intelligence would be more likely to get interested in UFOs then an average person.(Ignoring the recent UFO press frenzy.) I would also like to point out that the public at large doesn't think UFO research to be "fringe", at least according to the recent polls > For example how did your background or > that of Karl Pflock lead you into this area? How did any of our backgrounds lead us toward the subject? Let me give you a example as to how somebody becomes interested in UFOs. In my case I was in Copper Mountian, Colorado skiing. While in a book shop I noticed a copy of Kevin Randle's The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell sitting in a sale rack.(Sorry Mr. Randle, it's the truth you know!) I read that book and it went from there! I'm not saying that there aren't people with creepy ulterior motives involved in UFO research. I just think that people are starting to assume that it's commonplace. If someone does some research into a researcher's background and finds some interesting information that could be vital to their motives, that is fine. The problem comes in when we have people like Ed Komarek (I hate to use real life examples, but it's the only thing I can relate it to.) who scream debunker or disinformation agent if that person doesn't think the same way as them. Take Karl Pflock for instance. Do I agree with all of his conclusions regarding Roswell?(For those who care I remain undecided.)No. Do I think he's some sinister disinformation agent of some kind? Of course not! I might not agree with all his conclusions, but I think he's a good researcher. This undying untrust of every person we associate with in regards to UFO research holds us back! Look at Jan Aldrich. Here is a researcher who has undertaken a study, which, will probably become one of the most important UFO studies ever made. Instead of being praised for such excellent and level-headed research we questions about Jan's military past! This is something wrong with this picture... My Two Bits, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: Celebrity Contactees [was: Question for Linda From: Michael Wayne Malone <wayne@HiWAAY.net> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 00:54:20 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:04:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Celebrity Contactees [was: Question for Linda Sammy Hagar, formerly of Van Halen, claimed on Politically Incorrect that he was a contactee. Michael
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Posting Rules for this List From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:10:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:10:06 -0400 Subject: Posting Rules for this List Posting Rules To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the four line 'header' from the body of that message at the start of _your_ message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are responding to. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Quotes should come _before_ you key your response. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. It should look like this: >Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the >first character. It should look like this: Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are referring to. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol or contain excessive quoting will not be posted to UpDates. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it merely posted it to the List. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want _everyone_ to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include 'http://' and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. ------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: UFO Beliefs From: kewyatt@teleport.com (Keith) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:15:46 GMT Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:18:21 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Beliefs >From: "Anthony Chippendale" <ufos@chipp.clara.net> >Organization: UFOs Online >To: skywatch@phoenic.net >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:53:12 +0000 >Subject: UFO Beliefs >Hi there, >I am currently working on a magazine article about UFO theories and >beliefs. I would appreciate any ideas that you may have on the origin >of UFOs. >Thanks, >Anthony Chippendale, >English Director of PUFORI (http://www.pufori.org/) The origin of UFOs from my understanding is from Army-Air Force fighter pilots from WWII that described FOO fighters. Here in Oregon in 1946? a military pilot reported seeing several silver objects in the sky that received nationwide press attention. Of course, the Roswell Incident fueled the UFO belief to what it is today. Other items that fuel UFO beliefs: 1. Corp Circles 2. Multiple Radar Contact and pilot visual confirmation. Try the Belgium (1990?) incident with ground and jet radar along with pilot visual confirmation. or the civilian aircraft 1993? reports large flying object over New Mexico. NORAD ground Radar confirmed the object. The audio tape was played on "Sightings". 3. The fact that humans travel in space. It makes sense that if we can obtain space travel then an advanced civilization could travel the stars with relative ease. Well I think just about covers some of my views. For me however I know that Unidentified Flying Objects exist, we just haven't identified what they are. They could be space aliens, an unexplained phenomena, government aircraft/experiments or... For some people it is a religion, to me it's a mystery that science can solve or explain. Keith ----------------------------------------------------------- ! Keith Wyatt http://www.teleport.com/~kewyatt ! ! PO Box 18357 Salem, OR 97305 ! ! PGP KEY by finger and keyservers ! ----------------------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: kewyatt | ufos |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Strange Seismic Event At Russian Nuclear Test Site From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:15:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:23:10 -0400 Subject: Strange Seismic Event At Russian Nuclear Test Site Received from E.P.R.F. July 29 at 12.50 local Danish time (GMT + 2 hours): P A R A N O R M A L N E W S ***E X T R A*** MOSCOW (Reuter) - Russia expressed surprise Thursday over a U.S. report that there had been a "seismic event'' 12 days ago in the vicinity of a Russian nuclear test site and said it had not carried out an atomic test. "I don't know what seismic activity they're talking about,'' a spokesman for the Atomic Energy Ministry said by telephone. "No nuclear tests were carried out at Novaya Zemlya. Russia has voluntarily given up nuclear testing and sticks to this position.'' The United States said earlier that it had detected a ``seismic event'' with explosive characteristics in the vicinity of the Russian nuclear test range at Novaya Zemlya on Aug. 16. A Pentagon spokeswoman said Washington was trying to determine whether it was a test blast. Novaya Zemlya is an island in Russia's Arctic North around 560 miles from Norway and 620 miles from Finland. Finnish Radiation official Hannele Aaltonen said the Finnish Seismological Institute had reported an incident at 10 p.m. EDT on Aug. 16 but that it had not affected radiation levels in Finland and did not appear to be a nuclear test. "Nothing in the radiation situation pointed to a nuclear test,'' Aaltonen, head of emergency preparedness at Finnish Center for Radiation and Nuclear Safety, told Reuters. "According to the information we received from the seismological institute, it was an explosion and not an earthquake,'' Aaltonen said. ``We have no knowledge of whether it was a nuclear charge,'' she said. The Russian spokesman said that it would have reported a nuclear test if there had been one. "Where the Pentagon got this information from I have no idea. There are special channels for the exchange of information on these issues between the two countries and they are working perfectly,'' the Russian spokesman said. "It sounds even more strange, as a delegation of ecologists has just left for the Novaya Zemlya testing range. No one would have carried out a nuclear test on the eve of the ecologists' arrival,'' he said. Russia, along with the other four declared nuclear powers, has imposed a voluntary moratorium on testing. Russia announced in 1992 that it was halting nuclear explosions. No one at the Defense Ministry or the Kremlin was immediately available for comment. (ed note: Interesting....the power of an atomic blast without residual radioactivity. This is what Dr. Lazar claims element 115 is capable of. It also could mean an antimatter or cold fusion accident. Two things are for certain: There was a very large blast, and there was no radioactivity present.) ------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for subscribing and taking part in seeking the truth. As always, UFOchat is held on Tuesdays at 8 pm Pacific Time. Hope to see you there! Our Web address is: http://www.paranormal.simplenet.com The Director of E. P. R. F. is John Erickson You may contact him at: captkirk@teleport.com Keep looking to the Skies!!! Administrivia: 1) What this newsletter is for: To remind people of E.P.R.F. happenings and to inform subscribers of updates to the various areas of the web site as they are made available. Also, we will be able to send out a newsletter whenever a really interesting event occurs and there is an impromptu chat session held to discuss the issue. Any type of ghost, UFO, or other strange type of sighting that may occur and is of some importance will be handled through the newsletter if I hear about it in a timely fashion. 2) What this newsletter is NOT about: To tell you my kid got an "A" or that my car is broke again or that my cat ran away. This is strictly for the paranormal business at hand. 3) How to Subscribe / Unsubscribe: Simply visit our Home Page. You will find the Newsletter tools towards the bottom of the page. Be sure to have your password handy if you are unsubscribing. ---------------------------------------------- GetReminded.Com - FREE Email Reminder Service http://www.getreminded.com/ ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: Behind American Computer Co. From: Karel Bagchus <karel@atmm.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:32:14 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:25:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Behind American Computer Co. >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:45:00 -0400 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Behind American Computer Co. - Alarm bells >I would hardly say this is evidence of the work of amateurs. >In fact one might infer quite the opposite, there might be a >message in this, think of the significance of ripping a door >off of its hinges and smashing the sensors so that the alarm >with repetitively, deliberately sound off. Might give one the >feeling that who ever did it has contempt for your alarms >and was able to operate without fear of detection and with >impunity. Smashing a motion detector would defenetly set off the alarm before you have a chance of hitting it. Karel. ------------------------====### ATMM ###====--------------------- Karel Bagchus karel@atmm.nl Audax-Tros MultiMedia tel (+31) 035 - 625 45 45 Ceintuurbaan 2 fax (+31) 035 - 625 45 55 1217 HN Hilversum the Netherlands ------------------------====############====---------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: Strange lights From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:34:13 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:26:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange lights >From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:13:02 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Strange lights >Hello list members, >My question is a simple but dignified one. What are all these small >white lights, that seem to be traveling effortlessly, that I see almost >every night I stargaze? Could they be satelites? Balloons? Any >suggestion are welcome. > Clint Stone >Ky/MUFON Hi Clint, Hi Errol, Hi All These happen to be one of my favourites. If they travel in a straight line, but "faster" than a plane then the most likely thing that they are is a satellite in a LEO, or Low Earth Orbit. There are things in the universe billions of years older than our human race. They are vast, they are timeless. If they are aware of us at all we are of no more consequence to them as ants are to us. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/Index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: Guy Kirkwood [was: and Skywatch From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Friday, 29 August 1997 8:16am MT Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:38:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Guy Kirkwood [was: and Skywatch >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:55:41 -0300 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch >International Conference >> From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com >> Date: Thursday, 28 August 1997 2:10pm MT >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: UFO UpDate: Guy Kirkwood and Sky > >From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] > >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:07:13 -0400 (EDT) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch International Conference > >Subj: Re: UFO UpDate: SKYWATCH: Nov. 15 & 16 1st Skywatch > > International Conference > >Date: 97-08-27 14:49:26 EDT > >To: updates@globalserve.net > > In a message dated 97-08-27 13:08:48 EDT, Bill Hamilton wrote: > >> and Guy Kirkwood will > >> tell us about the Air Force pursuit of the UFO evidence (and > >> he can now prove he was an Air Force pilot despite Stan Friedman) >Just about everything Guy told the group of us (Including you) >around a table in the Lobby of the LA Airport Hilton was a lie. >He did not graduate from Cheshire Academy. There are letters from >the Air Force saying he was never, under any of the 3 names, an >Air Force Pilot. United Airlines Rep of the ALPA said he was >never a member. The FAA said he was not licensed as a commerical >pilot or multi-engine pilot even though he claimed to have flown >DC8s for United for many years. He claimed he became a jet pilot >with no college. NO WAY. He couldn't find his DD 214 though Linda >Howe gave him plenty of time. Ditto his ALPA card. He admitted on >TV that he was not a Jet Pilot in the USAF. Yes he is >charming... and a con man. >Stan Friedman Perhaps you are right Stan, however, spurred by a local group in California that said they were getting opposition to his speaking anymore and they would not support him unless he came up with some evidence, several things started to happen. The first was some retired FAA investigator came forth to support Guy, and the second: several people offered to help him go through his storage boxes. After going through his storage, he found his DD-214 and other records. I have had people call me and said they have attested to seeing these. I have yet to see them myself and have them checked out further. Guy admits to saying he was not a jet pilot on TV due to certain circumstances. I am going to attempt to get a copy of these documents. Until then, I cannot make any further comment. I have been speaking to a retired Air Force officer here at work who was once the UFO Officer at Malstrom AFB and asked him a few questions about military records and documents. He has personal knowledge that records have been altered as well as removed. This usually happened in cases where it was expedient to cover-up a classified operation. Even now I am learning to file FOIA requests, learning image analysis, and whatever other tools are necessary to investigate UFO matters in further depth. Probably, where I differ from some others is my current trend to look at both sides of an issue, but not without discrimination. A claim that says "I have produced some records" and a supporting claim that says "I have witnessed seeing these records", I believe, should not be shrugged off. The next step is to see if there is a way to determine if the records are authentic. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Search for other documents from or mentioning: william.hamilton |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:08:09 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:37:37 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) [Col. Steve Wilson] Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:35:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:30:09 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > Note: I want to answer this one, although I seldom do, being that I > have to defend nothing. First, I have sent Hamilton and Boylan copies > of my DD-214 "for their eyes only" since I HAVE been working with them. > If they should break this trust, they would never get one more word out > of me. OK, well that's simple: Bill and Rich, can you confirm if Steve Wilson has provided you with the specified document. I'm not asking for the content, just verification. That should settle this thread.... Jakes E. Louw louwje@telkom.co.za +27 12 311-2668 082 923 6144
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: Strange lights From: Dan Syes <dsyes@micron.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 10:06:11 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:02:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange lights > From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:13:02 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Strange lights > Hello list members, > My question is a simple but dignified one. What are all these small > white lights, that seem to be traveling effortlessly, that I see almost > every night I stargaze? Could they be satelites? Balloons? Any > suggestion are welcome. > Clint Stone > Ky/MUFON More than likely what you are seeing are satelites....The usually run in a straight undeviated path across the sky. I usually see 2 to 3 an hour when I stargaze. On a stranger note, I was up in the mountains packpacking last week, and me and my boy were sitting up watching the stars. I was watching what I thought was a satelite, when it flashed brightly 3 times(like a reflection of the sun on a car window), then dimmed, went into a wavering motion(like a parachutest dangling back and forth)increased it's speed and zipped off over the horizon. I don't think that one was a satelite<G>! Dan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: Guy Kirkwood From: RGates8254@aol.com Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:05:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Guy Kirkwood > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:55:41 -0300 > From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Guy Kirkwood and Skywatch International > Conference <brevity snip> > > There is some apparently contradictory evidence that Mr. Ecker > > may have overlooked --- we are looking into that now. Some people > > may be a little hasty in research and some matters need to be > > re-examined when new evidence comes to light. If what we find > > proves a further hoax, then we will let you all know. > > Sincerely, > > Bill Hamilton > Bill: > Just about everything Guy told the group of us (Including you) around a > table in the Lobby of the LA Airport Hilton was a lie. He did not > graduate from Cheshire Academy. There are letters from the Air Force > saying he was never, under any of the 3 names, an Air Force Pilot. > United Airlines Rep of the ALPA said he was never a member. The FAA > said he was not licensed as a commerical pilot or multi-engine pilot > even though he claimed to have flown DC8s for United for many years. He > claimed he became a jet pilot with no college. NO WAY. He couldn't find > his DD 214 though Linda Howe gave him plenty of time. Ditto his ALPA > card. He admitted on TV that he was not a Jet Pilot in the USAF. Yes he > is charming... and a con man. > Stan Friedman Stans hit this nail on the head. Ah but in this case everyone should realize <big grin at this point> that the govt coverup went out and vacumed all the records so that it would appear that he had no AF/United background whatsoever, because "they" knew that he was going to come out of the closet at the Skywatch conference....blah blah blah. Sadly some will justify themselves with this argument. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy From: William.Hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com Date: Friday, 29 August 1997 10:48am MT Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:59:30 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:08:09 +0200 >From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO UpDate: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy >From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) [Col. Steve Wilson] >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:35:18 -0700 >Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:30:09 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFOR: USAF Spec. Academy > Note: I want to answer this one, although I seldom do, being >that I have to defend nothing. First, I have sent Hamilton and >Boylan copies of my DD-214 "for their eyes only" since I HAVE >been working with them. >OK, well that's simple: Bill and Rich, can you confirm if >Steve Wilson has provided you with the specified document. >I'm not asking for the content, just verification. >That should settle this thread.... >Jakes E. Louw >louwje@telkom.co.za >+27 12 311-2668 >082 923 6144 I have received the above document in the mail from the Colonel as promised and have filed it. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 29 Guy Kirkwood UFO Mag. Expose From: DONFEII@aol.com Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:53:51 -0400 Subject: Guy Kirkwood UFO Mag. Expose The following attached file is the UFO Magazine Expose that ran in UFO Magazine Volume 7 No. 3, in 1992. UFO Magazine retains all rights to the story. It is placed here for your information. Don Ecker UFO Magazine www.ufomagazine.com UFO Magazine Volume 7 No. 3 May/June 1992 WHISTLEBLOWERS The Mel Noel' Story By Don Ecker In 1988, a tremendously important book was published: Above Top Secret (William Morrow & Co.), written by British author Timothy Good. Considered one of the top ten books to inhabit any UFO aficionado's library, Good's book is one of the most important UFO research tools produced in the last 10 to 20 years. Good detailed UFO events, incidents and quotes from military and political luminaries worldwide. In section III, chapter 11 of Above Top Secret, Good presents the story of an alleged United States Air Force interceptor pilot, Lt. Mel Noel. "Mel Noel (pseudonym) was twenty years old when he was assigned to a reserve squadron at Lowry AFB, Colorado," Good wrote, "and selected for special photo reconnaissance missions to film UFOs." Further into the story, Good quotes Noel/Kirkwood on the parameters of the mission to photograph the overflights of UFOs in the area of Utah and Idaho. Good states that Noel told him, "The briefings also included the showing of several hours of movie films that had been taken by military pilots, and hundreds of still photographs, many of which had been confiscated from civilians." If true, this is the first verifiable account of a former military pilot breaking ranks with oaths of secrecy and recounting military pursuits of formations of UFOs. What is the proof? So far, the is NO PROOF. True raconteur' UFO Magazine first met Noall Bryce Cornwell, alias Mel Noel and his more recent pseudonym, Guy Kirkwood, at a UFO lecture held in San Diego in 1990. A very personable and friendly man, Kirkwood exudes charm and wit. A true raconteur, he can entrance an audience for hours with tales of Air force derring-do and the early (1960s) years of saucer searching, all the while speaking of people he knew who were making a splash in the field. (Kirkwood is friends with Gordon Cooper, one of the original Mercury 7 astronauts.) [Inset photo of F-86A Sabre Jet - A Korean War-vintage model jet which Kirkwood has claimed he flew while in the Air Force, but investigations have show that he has no record of prior military service.] [Inset photo - Narcisco Genovese (holding a map) and Kirkwood point out where they said they were headed. Genovese was Kirkwood's alleged scientific contact to the secret saucer group' in South America.] Author John Keel also mentioned Noel/Kirkwood in his 1988 book, Disneyland of the Gods. Describing an incident in the chapter titled, "A Short History of Boobery," Keel referred to "well financed hoaxers." According to Keel, "One of the most outstanding examples took place in 1966, when a handsome young man in expensive clothes suddenly appeared in New York City, accompanied by two stunning young ladies. They checked into a luxury hotel and then Mel Noel (that is the name he used) systematically visited all the leading magazines and newspapers. He was signing reporters up for a trip into outer space. "According to Mr. Noel, a flying saucer was scheduled to land on the set of the Jackie Gleason television show in Florida. Anyone who wanted to go aboard had to apply for a space passport." At that time, it was not very well known that Gleason was a UFO "true believer," and Keel even suspected that Gleason may have been financing Noel. Mexican affair Kirkwood now claims that Keel was mistaken. "During that time period, I was involved with a group of people in Mexico," Kirkwood told UFO. "I had been invited to speak before a very large group of very influential Mexican businessmen, and then was invited to meet an Italian named Genovese, whose brother had worked with [Guglielmo] Marconi prior to WW II." [Inset photo - THREE AMIGOS - Left to right: An unidentified Mexican official, Noel (Kirkwood) and Narcisco Genovese toast their good fortune -- before the jig was finally up.] [Inset photo - WILL IT FLY? - Professor' Genovese shows two curious members of the group some sketches of ET technology.'] According to Kirkwood's elaborate story, the mysterious Mr. Genovese told him that his brother - whose name was never specified - had been part of a team working with Marconi, and had helped developed a "death ray" that the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini once saw demonstrated. After seeing it, of course Mussolini wanted it, Kirkwood related. When Marconi refused to give it to the dictator, he ended up dead, and the brother of Mr. or "Professor" Narcisco Genovese then disappeared with the remainder of the scientific team. According to Kirkwood, the group ended up in Argentina, where they somehow met and were working with some tall ETs. When Kirkwood (still going by "Mel Noel") met Genovese, he and a group of people in Los Angeles were negotiating with this mysterious group to take a ride in one of the discs that Genovese told them were being developed and flown at the base. Embellishment Kirkwood originally broke into the UFO scene with his engaging tales of flying jets in the Air Force while he was allegedly part of a top secret photo-recon squadron, the story passed on to Good and found in Above Top Secret. It appears the convoluted Genovese tale, with its ETs and saucer base, was an elaborate embellishment, a creative addition to bring more color to Kirkwood's story. When UFO first met Kirkwood, he had not been active in the UFO field for many years. He related his experiences of speaking before crowds of the UFO faithful at many events back in the 60's, such as the famous Giant Rock conventions that took place at the California desert. Apparently Kirkwood's UFO career has been revived in recent years, and in 1991 he was invited to appear on a Fox Network UFO special, which aired in October of last year. After the special aired, UFO Magazine was contacted by a longtime UFO researcher, a former Austrian by birth, Fritz Kron. Kron knew Kirkwood back in the 1960's, and in connection with B. Anne Slate had written an expose on Kirkwood for Fate Magazine. As Kron details it, Kirkwood said then, as now, that he was a former Air Force pilot. The following is Kirkwood's story, as he frames it. After he "came out of the closet" and began talking about his UFO experiences, Kirkwood was invited down to Mexico to address a gathering of very influential Mexican citizens. After giving the talk, Kirkwood was invited to meet a Professor Narcisco Genovese, who belonged to a coterie of mysterious scientists that had originally come from Europe prior to the start of WW II, supposedly fleeing the Italian dictator Mussolini. The group resurfaced five years later. The Genovese brothers apparently told Kirkwood about the saucer base in Argentina, which Genovese's brother helped develop and where they had met with some tall blond ETs, allegedly "Martians" who were motivated to pass on their cosmic technology to selected earthlings. Meanwhile, Kirkwood had started a UFO group called "Ufology Research Institute" in connection with a man named Kent Tomlinson. Tomlinson had a shady background, and at one time had been investigated by the FBI for smuggling guns into Cuba, allegedly with organized crime money. According to a law enforcement source, Tomlinson also had a long record for bunco type operations in the state of Florida. Landing announced As the story progressed, Kirkwood began claiming that one of these saucers from the mysterious Genovese connection would be landing ten miles south of the border in La Rumorosa, Mexico. He had been escorting a curious group of Americans, who must have been hoping to take a ride, down to Mexico to meet Professor Genovese. One of the Americans was a photo-journalist by the name of Don Dornan. At the time, Dornan's brother Robert was hosting a local Los Angeles television show called Tempo, which later figures greatly in the Noel/Kirkwood story. (Robert Dornan is now a U.S. Congressman from Southern California.) Promising a major scoop, Don Dornan had persuaded Life Magazine to assign him to do a story and photo layout on the Kirkwood/Tomlinson/ Genovese operation, and he was present at many meetings with Prof. Genovese. Dornan was in on the scam-saga almost from the beginning, and was able to take numerous photos of the sessions which went on in Mexico. Dornan expresses amazement at how many people accepted without question this fantastic story from Kirkwood, Tomlinson and Narcisco Genovese (much like today, with newer storytellers thrilling audiences with tales of government conspiracies and evil aliens kidnaping and eating helpless humans.) According to Dornan, "As meetings progressed and someone would break out the alcohol, Genovese would become more a nimated as his consumption grew." Kirkwood, meanwhile, was informing his growing audiences of Genovese's brilliance and his proficiency in English, Greek and German. Kron, suspicious of "Professor Genovese," took a friend and a bottle of whiskey to Genovese's business, a book bindery in Mexico City. Speaking to Genovese in his native German, Kron asked, "We geht es Ihnen?" (How are you?) It was quickly apparent that Genovese did not understand German. "We fared little better speaking English," Kron told UFO. He presented Genovese with a bottle of liquor and Genovese in turn gave Kron a copy of his book, I Took a Trip to Mars. Kron left, waited a couple of hours and then returned to Genovese's home. Genovese had "almost killed the bottle of liquor, and was staggering around drunk, and now very embarrassed," Kron said. However, elsewhere the excitement factor had been building; Kirkwood had been wooing them at UFO conferences in Reno, Miami and California. The faithful were waiting for the imminent landing of the saucer. Already, names were being drawn up for the first party to take off. Same story, years later It was many years later when UFO heard this story directly from Kirkwood. He claims that as the date approached, another meeting was called by Genovese and his group. "We were all seated, when they said that there was a problem," Kirkwood said. "One of the things we all had to swear to was absolute secrecy. During some of the early meetings, we tried to get some proof of all this, and Don Dornan ended up getting us some special shielded tape recorders, since our recorder would not work there for some reason. Then he came up with a special camera that he could place in his mouth, and work with his tongue." Kirkwood added that he thought Dornan had intelligence connections. The last meeting of the Genovese group, he says, began with the group's exposing Dornan for being CIA-connected, resulting in the cancellation of the saucer trip. Kirkwood never specified what evidence was presented against Dornan. Dornan's side For his part, Don Dornan tells quite a different story about these events. "Noall Bryce Cornwell (Noel/Kirkwood's actual name) is a red-hot amateur scam artist," he says. "He has never pushed himself to the point where he will destroy himself on a national level. He loves doing his gag. That is now obvious. "I was working for Life Magazine then, and they were just getting into the muckraking stuff, and they were getting impatient," Dornan continues. "I told them it would take a little longer for what I thought was Noel and Tomlinson's setting of the hook for their scam. Life wanted to know just where the beef was -- just when would the fraud be committed? Who was going to lose money? There is always someone who loses money in a scam. "I don't know where he (Kirkwood) was getting the money. He had to have been getting money, but I think he enjoyed the scam more than the money. It's funny. He thought I was some kind of spy, but I wasn't. The real spy there -- and he was sure it was a scam and Kirkwood was a fraud -- was Bob Kline. (Kline, an associate of J.A. Hynek, was a member of Kirkwood's group.) Pilot test "All this time" Dornan continued, "Mel (Kirkwood) was using his Air Force' background to establish his credibility. My brother (now Rep. Bob Dornan) had been a pilot in the Air Force, and when he had met Mel he knew he had to have been a fraud. He (Bob Dornan) use to sneak in little things just to check out Mel, facts that if you were a pilot then, you would have known. Mel didn't pass the test. Also, some checks were then made to see if Mel held a pilot's license and not one thing was found! The Air Force was also aware that Mel had been passing himself off as an officer, and were considering filing criminal charges on him." Dornan believes the "brains" behind the scam was Kirkwood's associate Kent Tomlinson. "He was using Kirkwood, and I finally brought it to a head in a meeting with Genovese," Dornan recalls. "In front of everyone, I asked Mel if he had ever been arrested. He said no, and I ticked off the first couple of instances. I then asked him if he were a Fuller brush salesman. He said, yeah.' I then asked him if he were a dance instructor and he answered, yeah.' "I was then hoping that everyone else was getting it as I ran down the list. You know what? Almost total denial. How do we know you're telling the truth?' or I don't believe it!' I said to myself, I gotta tell these folks to get off the denial kick here.' I told Mel that we didn't have anything to bring charges, but that (he) played with these people's emotions. The (the group) did not want to hear this, but as I kept going on,they finally got the point -- that they had been had. "I told them that I was working for Life Magazine. Several people were worried that the story would run in the magazine and I told them no, but that Mel had abused their friendship and he had abused their emotions. Mel crapped out' and did not deny anything. I asked him if he was ever an Air Force pilot and he said no, if he chased saucers, and he said no. "That was the end of the story there." On-air admission In October of 1969, Mel Noel/Guy Kirkwood walked into the studio of Channel 9. The program was Robert Dornan's Tempo, and when Kirkwood came out he said "Hi Bob, I know your brother." Host Bob Dornan had invited both Mel and Don Dornan onto the show to "hash over" the story. Don Dornan immediately called Kirkwood on the carpet, asking him to state his real name. "Noall Bryce Cornwell," replied Kirkwood. Then Dornan dropped his bombshell: "Noall Bryce Cornwell is not a pilot and never has been a pilot. All known aliases also show no record of you holding a pilot's license." (Kirkwood did later get a second-class pilot's license.) Bob Dornan then asked, "Were you a commissioned Air Force pilot at any time?" Kirkwood replied, "No sir." Besides Timothy Good's book, no more was heard from him on that scale until the Fox broadcast, "The UFO Report: Sightings," where once again Kirkwood appeared in the guise of a former pilot with the U.S. Air Force. Author's note: This is one of those stories that isn't much fun to do. I know Guy Kirkwood, and I like Guy Kirkwood. He has always been a gentleman, not to mention that he's a witty and charming man. But that does not change the fact that these types of scams do nothing but harm the illegitimacy of UFO research. These are the types of con games that paint all UFO researchers with a black brush, when we're trying to explain that there is a real phenomenon worth looking at. Whenever someone goes on TV, radio or other medium and claims that he chased UFOs for the Air Force, or took a trip to Mars, or saw documents that say there are underground alien UFO bases where people are tortured and cloned, the rest of us have to bear the brunt of laughter from the public. No wonder the "straight community" of scientists and media laugh and for the most part disregard the entire subject. We at UFO are trying to change that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 PROJECT 1947: A Preliminary Report - Available From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:25:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:07:24 -0400 Subject: PROJECT 1947: A Preliminary Report - Available Even though it may have been mentioned previously, it is certainly worth repeating that the preliminary report to be developed under the auspices of Project-1947 is now available. This information was located at the Fund for UFO Reseach web site: Fund Issues "Project 1947" Report -- The Fund has added Project 1947: A Preliminary Report (including special reports on Sweden and Scandinavia, Finland, France and Australia) to its list of significant historical studies. While current interest in Roswell has brought the year 1947 into popular conversation, the true extent of the 1947 UFO wave is not generally appreciated. This current compilation sponsored by the UFO Research Coalition surveys the extensive UFO reports documented in newspapers and other publications worldwide during 1947. As part of an ongoing research project, nothing so comprehensive has been available since the groundbreaking studies by Ted Bloecher and Loren Gross -- studies which are now out of print and difficult to find. Since the Bloecher study, data now available include Project Blue Book and Project Sign files, Air Force Intelligence files, FBI UFO files, Project Second Story files from the Canadian Department of National Defense, U.S. Army Intelligence Command files, and UFO reports from the Swedish Military Archives. These sources and intensive surveys of newspapers offer an extraordinary look into the UFO mystery as it dramatically unfolded in 1947. Spiralbound, illustrated, 200+ pp. Those who are interested may visit the Fund for UFO Research's web site at www.fufor.org and obtains details regarding its price and availablity. If web access is not available, questions may be forwarded to: Fund for UFO Research, PO Box 277, Mt. Rainier, MD 20712. Jan Aldrich continues to gather information for the final report, but the preliminary information he has put together is now available for researchers and others who are interested.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:18:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:15:37 -0400 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:50:26 -0400 > From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record > > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:55:08 -0700 > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record > > > Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 23:43:59 -0400 > > > From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> > > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record [snip] > > > > Speculation on what could, should or would have happen is > > > > just that: speculation. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Jan Aldrich [snip] > > > Judge ye, not that ye be judged. > > Read that ye may know the truth, and the truth will set > > you free. [snip] > > Jan "Keep Your Eye on the Ball" Aldrich > Jan, > I think I was being a bit unfair to you alone and I would > like to ask you and everyone on the list to come clean with > their various intelligence backgrounds. > As a true private citizen I feel a bit overmatched by all > the "spooky" background histories of the individuals running > around in "ufology". > The general readers, posters and lurkers of this list and > may well wonder as I do why individuals with past or present > intelligence affiliations have such an active participation > in "ufology", a field which is thought of by the public as > fringey or worse. For example how did your background or > that of Karl Pflock lead you into this area? I can't speak for Karl, but I do think he wants to be just like his hero, Jim Moseley. I became interested in UFOs in the end of 1955 when I saw ball lightning. I was 11 years-old then, only half way through my first CIA psyops course. > On the other hand as a matter of focus I don't see where > Col. Corso has claimed to be a pivotal character in Western > civilization, Perhaps you missed Corso's claim that he leaked the pictures of the Soviet missiles in Cuba to Senator Keating and the press!!!???? > although Dennis Stacy has created the impression > that he has made such a claim. One might instead argue that > he was but a small cog in a well staffed, well funded > organization or loosely associated operations. > As an individual with experience in a Fortune 500 technical firm > responsible for new product development, one thing I can tell > you first hand is that the role Corso describes in technology > transfer was significant but a snmall part of the overall process. Ah, now we have it. You are or were an employee of a Fortune 500 company, eh? Which one? Why can't you tell us? Why don't *you* come clean? What is the purpose? How are they tied into to Citicorp and the Gnomes of Zurich? Are you an agent for the Blendenbergs? Or are you with the Council on Foreign Relations? Come on, Gary, come clean! You are not just a private citizen; you're part of a Fortune 500 company, part of the sharks that control and manipulate everything and everyone. A "true private citizen" indeed. Talk about "spooky" histories!!! Jan Aldrich P. S. >> However, if my record is so important to ufology, I will be >> happy to post it. Let's hear how important it is? I think >> you will get no takers. BTW There were not takers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: International UFO Skywatch Weekend From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 16:54:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:17:15 -0400 Subject: Re: International UFO Skywatch Weekend From 9.00pm Friday (GMT) 29 August, until the early hours of Monday 1 September, an International UFO Skywatch weekend involving groups and enthusiasts throughout the British Isles and overseas is taking place and being co-ordinated by UFO Magazine (UK). If anyone wishes to participate over the weekend and have not received our Skywatch Information Pack in advance - sorry, it's too late to post you the Pack, but we would be pleased to receive any observations your or your friends and colleagues might acrue over the next 72 hours, which can be added to those being collated by a team of volunteers who are manning phone lines throughout the weekend. If you wish to send us a report of your sighting, please send it to: SKYWATCH@UFOMAG.CO.UK Or you can reply on this Compuserve posting. Please feel free to post this information on accordingly. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall (Editor) UFO Magazine [UK]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Celebrity Contactees and/or Believers From: stenger@spindle.net (stenger@spindle.net) [Sharolyn Stenger] Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:26:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Celebrity Contactees and/or Believers >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 00:54:20 -0500 (CDT) >From: Michael Wayne Malone <wayne@HiWAAY.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Question for Linda Cortile >Sammy Hagar, formerly of Van Halen, claimed on Politically Incorrect that >he was a contactee. >Michael Hello, List In that same vein, I recently heard an ex-wife of David Bowie state on TV that she and David had a dramatic UFO sighting a few years ago, and that David is a staunch believer. Maybe that's why he made "The Man Who Fell to Earth." Politicians get favorable publicity boosts when celebrities endorse their candidacy. Maybe the UFO Reality and Truth could be helped by some couragous stars, too. Best wishes to all, Sharolyn
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:35:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:59:12 -0400 Subject: Behind American Computers - Addendum 3 http://www.american-computer.com/ New information on the American Computer Co. investigation. AC is refuting the allegations of Dan Woolman's ISO and his contention that AC was placing false information on their website strictly with the intention of drawing more people to the site. IMO this appears to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black. ...As some members of this list may be aware, Dan Woolman has made some rather extensive claims related to his alleged inside knowledge of government UFO engineering projects on his mailing list. He doesn't appear to be in a position to qualify the veracity of AC's claims; at least, not without producing more evidence to substantiate his allegation. AC provided me with the name of the alleged Bell Labs employee that the AC employee knew (as stated above) who was supposedly involved with either the transistor or integrated circuit project or both?? The name is John "Jack" Morton. AC stated this individual was either murdered or died under mysterious circumstances some years ago. AC claimed they were unsuccessful in establishing documentary evidence of Morton's employment (or existance) at Bell Labs but feel confident his employment was valid. According to AC's research into the patents from the transistor and the integrated circuit they claimed to have come across some anecdotal information which suggested there was a dispute or challenge to the patent that claimed the materials came from a weapon being tested in the desert in 1947. The counterclaim was that the silicon arsenic combination originated from a meteorite. *As a side note I would like to state that AC is making some rather, err... draconian claims here regarding the history of the cornerstone of modern technology. These claims hauntingly mirror Corso's information in his book which they still haven't retrieved a copy of by-the-way :) No idea where this is going but it seems clear that the research community should continue be aware of the developments involving American Computer Co. at this point in time. Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: PROJECT-1947 - Col. Halt's Talk From: jared@valuserve.com (Andromeda.net- Anderson, Jared) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:58:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:02:19 -0400 Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Col. Halt's Talk > From: Robert Swiatek <swiman@POP.DN.NET> > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:48:43 -0400 > Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:34:58 -0400 > Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Col. Halt's Talk > List Members-- > My wife is urging me to supplement Jan's summation of Halt's talk last > Saturday. Halt did say that some personnel suffered medical aftereffects, > but he qualified this banal statement to say that he did not receive > the same treatment as other witnesses due to the fact that he had powerful > friends in many places. > The chilling portion of his statement was that many other witnesses were > subject to "special treatment and injections." Stupidly, none of us > followed up with any questions about this. But it's all on (digital) > tape and eventually will be made available. > --Rob Swiatek Rob, As I read this I'm reminded of a post I made several weeks ago about Bruce Burgess' special on TLC where he interviewed a woman that was a former Nellis radar operator discharged in 1985 that claimed she witnessed a disc test somewhere in the NTS. They had her face blacked out to conceal her identity. She contends that she was standing on the deck of a radar van and was looking up and saw 10-15 saucers that were glowing orange on the bottom. She states that she was with some other people she didn't know and that didn't know eachother and none of the officers that were present were wearing any kind of insignia. She said she believed the craft she saw were piloted by aliens because the maneuvers they were executing were so perfect. She then goes on to describe some kind of morbid mind control scenario where she and the others were brought to some find of medical facility at Groom Lake and injected in the neck with a hypodermic needle filled with God knows what. She believed it was some kind of chemical that went straight to her brain and was supposed to suppress her memories or some other such sinister purpose. Details of the witness are sketchy at best but I sure would like to know more about these alleged injections of military personnel that witness UFO events. Sounds fun..eh? Jared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 BWW Media Alert 970829 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 20:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:03:18 -0400 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970829 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 E-mail: BufoCalvin@aol.com <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/BufoCalvin/index.html">BufoCalvin's Home Page< /A> TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (Permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes, provided attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to ask strangers before e-mailing them something. If you do forward it to someone, please be sure that it is clear you are forwarding it) August 29, 1997 Had a great vacation! If you tried to reach me, thanks for your patience. I also had some nice responses to a post I made on using "testable hypotheses" in UFOlogy. I appreciate those as well. This may be a bit abbreviated, since I'm still recovering from the trip ;) . The new TV season is starting soon, and that's always an exciting time for me (kinda sad, ain't it? ;) . Several weird shows are returning, including STRANGE UNIVERSE. A new weekly entry that looks interesting is LOOKING BEYOND. More on these later. Also, note the shift in time of THE SCI-FI CHANNEL's MYSTERIES, MAGIC, & MIRACLES this week. On to the listings! (Remember, times given here are generally Pacific) FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. Didn't have time to dig any up this week. Hey, let me know if you even =like= this feature! It takes quite a bit of time...it's fun, but if it's not liked, I'll drop it or skip it some times. ONLINE Controversial curator of THE NATIONAL UFO, BIGFOOT, AND LOCH NESS MONSTER MUSEUM, Erik Beckjord, hosts (and may or may not attend) a regular Tuesday night, 6:00 PM Pacific time, chat room, at http://WWW.CROSSFIELDS.COM/~ufomus/chat/ <A HREF="http://WWW. CROSSFIELDS.CO M/~ufomus/chat/ ">Museum Chat</A> OMNI MAGAZINE (http://www.omnimag.com <A HREF="http://www.omnimag.com">Omni M agazine</A> ) is back to do real time conferences. The regular night for our kind of stuff is Tuesday 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Pacific. This should be an interesting one. William J. Birnes, co-author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon. com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0671004611/bufosweirdworldA/">The Day After Roswell</A> with Col. Corso, will be the guest. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE is now SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO. This has resulted, among other things, in a new website: http://www.sightings.com. <A HREF="http://www.sightings.com">SIGHTINGS ON THE RADIO</A> Next week's guests not known (except for Michael Lindemann ...he'll be on at 6:00 PM Wednesday as I write this, but you can check their website on Monday. It can also be heard on your computer. Airtimes: M-F 6-9 PM Pacific (times given here are generally Pacific),. Sunday 8-11 PM Pacific. Archives of earlier shows are also available, so you can hear my previous broadcasts through this site. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE? --week of 8/25, car dies so people don't; strange child helps doctor PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com <A HREF="http://www.psifactor.com">P SI Factor</A> for stations and airdates and other info). This series is supposedly based on real cases. --week of 8/25, SECOND SIGHT (transplants carry memories?); CHOCOLATE SOLDIER (cult leader) Saturday, August 30 RADIO: THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24. The specific spots have to be considered tentative, and the station in your area may run it tape-delayed. No details available 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: THE GREAT SIBERIAN EXPLOSION (There's no denying that something caused a huge amount of damage in Siberia in 1908. If it had happened in 1997 over New York, millions would probably have died. The classic, out-of-print book on it ((which includes speculations that it was a spaceship)) is Sunday, August 31 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: (see http://www.artbell.com <A HREF="http://www.artbell.com">Art Bell</A> for stations and program info) In a repeat of the 5/1/94 broadcast, Stanton Friedman (nuclear physicist and pro-UFO author of ) debates Philip J. Klass (avionics writer and UFO debunking author of the <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=15739 21645/bufosweirdworldA/">The Real Roswell Crashed Saucer Coverup</A> ). Please note that neither book had been written at that time, but both authors had previous books as well. LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 7:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. Grail art. 10:59 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5060): THE HOUSE OF PLENTY (parts 1 & 2...a haunting); 1947! (UFOs); HEALING HARPS; UFOS HOLY LAND 12:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SECRETS OF ANCIENT WORLDS (Atlantis, Olmec, etc.) 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5060): THE HOUSE OF PLENTY (parts 1 & 2...a haunting); 1947! (UFOs); HEALING HARPS; UFOS HOLY LAND 7:00 PM, BEYOND BELIEF (some stories are made up for the show, some are based on real cases, you're supposed to guess...I think I'm not going to lists topics for this show, it's too confusing) 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5060): THE HOUSE OF PLENTY (parts 1 & 2...a haunting); 1947! (UFOs); HEALING HARPS; UFOS HOLY LAND Monday, September 1 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: P'TAAH, about an entity channeled by Jani King, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=06462480 06/bufosweirdworldA/">P'Taah : The Gift</A> (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse <A HREF="http://www.rysher.com/strangeun iverse/">Strange Universe</A> for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Brenda Roberts produces. Grail art. 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#X): Pre-empt for TWILIGHT ZONE Marathon. Tuesday, September 2 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: URANTIA (ET-connected "bible"...one book on it is <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0911560009/bufo sweirdworldA/">Urantia Book Concordance</A> )see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#3): ANGEL ON MY SHOULDER: MOODY LIGHTS; CALLING ALL SPIRITS Wednesday, September 3 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: SEANCE TV(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, , THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#4): Roswell Incident special (I know have a bunch of items on Roswell in the alphabetical listing at Bufo's WEIRD WORLD BOOKS...check it out) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#4): Roswell Incident special (I know have a bunch of items on Roswell in the alphabetical listing at Bufo's WEIRD WORLD BOOKS...check it out) Thursday, September 4 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: APHRODISIACS(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 5:30 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#5): ORIGIN OF THE UNIVERSE; CHICAGO GHOSTS ; PAST LIFE REGRESSION 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5069): Canadian psychic detective; Atlantis; alchemy; asteroid; haunting; Ley lines; methods of predicting the future 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: EXTRATERRESTRIALS (UFOs, etc.) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, MYSTERIES OF THE NORTH (Chinese and Russian apemen; Icelandic sea monsters, etc.) 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5069): Canadian psychic detective; Atlantis; alchemy; asteroid; haunting; Ley lines; methods of predicting the future Friday, September 5 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, MYSTERIES OF THE NORTH (Chinese and Russian apemen; Icelandic sea monsters, etc.) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#6): MATH & MYSTICISM; WYOMING PRISON GHOST; AURA READING This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. _____________________________ **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. ______________________________ <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books </A> I'm very excited about this! Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and it has always been a love of mine. I get asked often to recommend books (I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time! This is being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability, service, savings, and security. If there is any specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you want). I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more efficient for you. If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point! You may, but the option is yours.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Clinging to a 'Coverup' Theory From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 00:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:04:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Clinging to a 'Coverup' Theory http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1997-08/27/023l-082797-idx.ht= ml Clinging to a 'Coverup' Theory Wednesday, August 27, 1997; Page A18 The Washington Post The Post's Aug. 8 editorial "The Summer of UFOs" falsely implies that I fully endorse a recent CIA historian's report that prompted The Post's Aug. 5 news story "Cold War UFO Coverup Shielded Spy Planes." In fact, in the letter to the editor I submitted on Aug. 6 (which was not published), I sharply challenged the claim made in the article that "the Air Force and CIA willfully misled the public by claiming that thousands [my emphasis] of [UFO] sightings were caused by ice crystals, temperature inversions and other tricks of nature, when in fact they were produced by flights of high-flying super-secret [U-2, SR-71] spy planes." My letter, based on data available for more than 30 years, revealed that during the mid to late 1950s, when the U-2's existence and covert mission were under wraps, and during the early 1960s, when the SR-71 was under wraps, the Air Force explained only 59 UFO reports as "mirages and inversions" or "clouds and contrails" -- not "thousands." If the Air Force knew that a UFO report had been generated by a covert U-2 or SR-71 flight, it could simply list it as "unidentified" -- i.e., unexplained. During this same nine-year period, the Air Force characterized 136 UFO reports as "unidentified." The Post's editorial concludes: "It's a shame that an opportunity to help reduce people's mistrust in government was lost by agencies clinging to unnecessary secrecy." In this case, the real shame is that The Post is "clinging to unnecessary secrecy" by refusing to publish the indisputable facts that challenge its "coverup" claim. PHILIP J. KLASS Washington =A9 Copyright 1997 The Washington Post Company
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Two Bits [was: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 04:00:38 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:26:43 -0400 Subject: Two Bits [was: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's With kind regards to the List, our host, EBK, and Scott Hale... REFERENCE: >Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 00:35:49 -0700 >From: Scott Hale <shale@megalinx.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: PROJECT-1947 - Corso's Qualification Record SCOTT STATED: >UFO sightings have long been and will continue to bea question to be >studied/noted by intelligence groups. Perhaps one notices what a >confusing subject UFOs are when in intelligence? That's an interesting point, and one that is born out well, when you look at some of the guys in the 50s and 60s that were actually involved in what I think of as "Pioneering UFOlogy," heh. For instance, Major Donald Keyhoe comes to mind immediately, and the intense interest and even infiltration of early UFO research groups by folks known to have a "covert" background. Somebody help me out since I'm blank... What was the _particular_ organization I'm talking about? Stan Friedman? Don Ecker? Rebecca Schatte? Jerome Clark? Jan Aldrich? Was it NICAP? Fawcett and Greenwood did some good research, but I'll be dadgum (Texas colloquialism, sorry) if my synapses will fire right now, heh... >After all, I think we all probably agree that someone with a >background in intelligence would be more likely to get interested in >UFOs then an average person. Indeed, one would _have_ to recognize (although with some it would be grudgingly) that some pretty "intelligent" people work for "intelligence" outfits. And your assessment fits, I think, whether that interest might be in a "professional" capacity or not. (wink) My point, if I just have to have one (heh), is that an intelligence background would not NECESSARILY be a bad thing to have, when approaching this subject. I personally think it might be refreshing to have those who are good enough investigators and thinkers go in and flush some of the sewage out of UFOlogy's pipes. Through the years, I have observed some odd twists, with regard to involvement of "intelligence people" in UFOlogy. I've seen what I believe to be both "information" and "disinformation" come of it. >I would also like to point out that the public at large doesn't >think UFO research to be "fringe", at least according to the recent >polls I'm still with you, Scott, but I will respectfully reserve a spot on "hold" with the above. (grin) I still think we have a way to go to be accepted without at least a smirk on the part of a good percentage of the population. >I'm not saying that there aren't people with creepy >ulterior motives involved in UFO research. Sage words, Scott. That group can be divided into several levels and motivations, but that would be another topic unto itself, heh. >The problem comes in when we have people like Ed Komarek >(I hate to use real life examples, but it's the only thing I >can relate it to.) who scream debunker or disinformation >agent if that person doesn't think the same way as them. I won't call any names, as you have already effectively covered that issue (nudge, wink, saynomore), but I WHOLLY and COMPLETELY agree with the above-related scenario. It flatly flabbergasts me that such polarization exists amongst people who would call themselves researchers and/or investigators. (shrug) It amazes me how many comments that Bill Ralls and I get about being "debunkers," in regard to our own research, simply because we refuse to buy into or support that which we either KNOW or vigorously percieve to be either wrong, misguided, uninformed, or [excuse my flair here, but let's call a spade a spade] BULLSHIT. >This undying untrust of every person we associate with in >regards to UFO research holds us back! Here here. Bravo. Concurrence. >Look at Jan Aldrich. Here is a researcher who has undertaken >a study, which, will probably become one of the most important >UFO studies ever made. Without a doubt! [EVERYONE READING, hats off and a salute to Jan and his associates!] >Instead of being praised for such excellent and level-headed >research we questions about Jan's military past! This is >something wrong with this picture... I perceived such to be, when I read it, a badly-fired rocket, aimed at the wrong target. (wink) "Friendly" fire is sometimes the most hazardous, I guess... >My Two Bits, >Scott K. Hale Mine, too. Heh. Glenn Joyner Dallas ******************************************** ** Visit : http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** ** It's a SERIOUS look at UFO phenomena ** ********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples For From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:58:34 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:29:51 -0400 Subject: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples For http://www.sightings.com/ufo/santillirelease.htm SIGHTINGS Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Sample For Analysis In a major new development, British entertainment entrepreneur, Ray Santilli, has reportedly given over four frames of his now legendary Alien Autopsy film for scientific analysis which could establish the best evidence yet for the film's authenticity. This exclusive news was revealed on Jeff Rense's Sightings radio program on Thursday, August 14, during the show's third hour interview with Dr. Roger K. Leir, a MUFON Assistant Section Director and frequent guest on the program. (The program may be heard via the AudioNet Archives and can be accessed from the top of the Sightings website homepage.) Both skeptics and supporters of the film's authenticity have been engaged in heated debate over Mr. Santilli's heretofore refusal to provide samples of the film for official scientific analysis and potential authentication. Doubters and skeptics have maintained that if the film were authentic, and Mr. Santilli knew it to be so, he would have long ago provided the tiny amount of original film necessary to validate its age and pedigree. Many skeptics have pointed out that all Santilli actually needed to provide would be a small hole punch from a single frame of film, and that since he has always refused, the film must be a fraud. In his broadcast conversation with Dr. Leir, Rense mentioned that Mr. Santilli has thus far not agreed to provide that much discussed hole punch of even a single frame of the Alien Autopsy film for analysis to which Dr. Leir replied that he, Santilli, has indeed now finally done. According to Dr. Leir, he and his colleague Derrel Sims, the "Alien Hunter" UFO investigator from Houston, were recently invited to lunch with Ray Santilli who discussed with them a number of issues about the Alien Autopsy film and its history of public exposure since he first acquired it. Leir stated that Santilli indicated major unhappiness and disappointment over how the film's release has been received, and, furthermore, expressed great disappointment and frustration with the entire process of exposing it to the general public. Dr. Leir revealed to Rense that Ray Santilli then passed into their possession 4 frames of the original film on the strict and absolute condition that it be thoroughly analysed by the best appropriate scientific experts and that the results of the analysis of the film and any remainder of the four frames themselves be returned to him without public disclosure of the results; that he, Santilli, would decide if, how, and when those results will be made public. Leir and Sims agreed. Dr. Leir stated to Rense that the analysis and evaluation will be performed by the best scientific and technical experts in the film industry and the results will be sent directly, without public comment, to Ray Santilli per the agreed upon conditions. Rense further inquired of Dr. Leir why Santilli he has never come forward himself and offered a sample of the original film for analysis. Leir stated Santilli explained that if had he done so this long after the film's release, he would no doubt become the center of a new controversy over his timing and would probably be accused of media manipulation and charges of hoax...allegations he has no desire to experience. Derrel Sims and Dr. Roger Leir most recently made international news in Roswell, N.M. on July 4, when they presented a piece of debris reputed to be from the original crash of an alien craft near Roswell in 1947. Extensive scientific analysis of the artifact was presented by Dr. Russell Vernon-Clark at the news conference who is of the opinion, due to is isotopic ratios, that it is of ET origin. Dr. Leir and Derrel Sims are also well known as having been the first to collaborate on the successful surgical removal of alleged alien implants from several individuals with long histories of abduction experience. The items removed are continuing to undergo rigorous scientifc analysis with the published results to date pointing toward highly unusual configuration and compostion said unlikely to be of earthly manufacture. Email =BFeotl@west.net Homepage UFOs
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Pat Weisslander 'letter' on Stan Friedman From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 08:21:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:30:23 -0400 Subject: Pat Weisslander 'letter' on Stan Friedman ** Fowarded from Starfriends list ** =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Here is the communication that raised my questions about Stan. Stan, you are welcome to rebutt, refute or otherwise demolish this account as you wish. I have absolutely nothing personal against you and have considerable respect for your work as a researcher. Since, however, you are keen to find out why I have nagging questions about your motives, this letter (from Pat Weisslander) is the reason. Ash -------------------------------------------------- Stanton Friedman=92s Biggest Contribution to Ufology. Pat Weissleader This account is a chronolog and is from memory, so there may be inaccuracies in dates and minor data. I can find the correct details in records of correspondence on disk and received letters, and in ufo literature and periodicals. Unfortunately when I went back to purchase the available issues of the British version of UFO magazine, Graham had folded his tents and slipped away. I will also mention that I have a problem with my hands and may be lazy about capitalization. This can be corrected in a final version, as this report is to be considered confidential and is disseminated to help obtain feedback on how to proceed. There is very little in my life that anyone could affect, but I do expect retaliation for making this information public, and do not have the resources to defend myself against much. My background includes Army service for a little over a year as a Counterintelligence Special Agent. I have my DD214 and numerous documents to prove this. I trained at USAINTS, Ft Holabird, MD. I also have an AA degree in police science and a BS in social service. I worked for the California Department of Corrections from 1972 to 1980 when I received a workmen=92s comp disability. The reason for this could be ascribed to preventing me from becoming a whistle blower. I have always kept records and copies of items that seem may be important later, and have managed to get people to generate documents they didn=92t know they were creating-I might mention I was the first woman to pass probation and continue working in a men=92s prison. It was my careful preservation of data that made this possible. I believe it was in 1989 that I attended the Whole Life Expo in Pasadena, California. I managed to get rather mixed up in parking and entered the Expo over a roof parking garage, coming first to a booth that was selling UFO books. I purchased a copy of =91UFO Crash At Aztec=92 and had it signed by the author, Bill Steinman, who was there. When I go home I read about half the book. I was excited because I had not expected to find such careful research and detailed information. I went back to the Expo the next day and attended a panel discussion on UFOs. The panel consisted of Bill Moore, Stanton Friedman, Sheryl Stark (editor of UFO Magazine) and perhaps one other person. Later it may have been a different time slot when Budd Hopkins played tapes of a man screaming that they were putting something up his penis. It is possible that Budd was on the panel. I have the program in my archives to check. I was disturbed when most of the program consisted of SF waving around blacked out documents and ranting about coverup. I felt that this had resulted in anyone getting little value from the panel discussion. Afterwards I looked at the material he had for sale. It was copies of pages that said very little and were high priced. I contrasted this with the excellent (and comparatively inexpensive) information in the Steinman book. At this time I considered that this man did not have the same agenda as that author. Had I got to this panel discussion first I would not have bought any UFO books, feeling that the study of these craft was not being done on a scientific basis. I sometimes have ways of getting more information about a person and I used one of these at the time. I pulled out a photo of my dog and approached SF, telling him I had reasons to believe that there was some alien influence around the breed. He brushed me off, barely trying to be polite and did not look at me directly. I knew he had dismissed me as unimportant and would not remember me. I also suspected he did not consider women to be important - there was no hint of gallantry or assumed social manners. You will understand later in the narrative why this observation is important. Please search your own memory and ask the opinion of any women you trust to confirm this as being true of SF - he may behave differently to women that have some reputation in the field. Because of things that were happening around me, I became interested in ufology. I had been taken to a dowser=92s meeting by a lady who was in my rare fruit group and met Penny Harper there who invited me to attend her UFORUM group in Los Angeles. In time I became friends with her and helped out at the meetings taking tickets or setting up= refreshments. Many people would ask my opinion of speakers and at times my answer had to be =91I missed most of it because I was doing the refreshments=92. I do not give an insulting opinion of anyone publicly, and I do not lie, so that was my best option for about a quarter of the speakers. Another comment I use is =91I don=92t have much expertise in that subject matter.=92 I began collecting books to create a library that could be used for reference to compare any claims or data with that which had been done before. I used the Army Standard to evaluate a number of UFO cases and situations. I see patterns that others do not see. I am also very psychic and have a record of being correct about things I get flashes about. Of course these flashes can not be considered as data when putting together a case, but many times I have managed to put together a good case on something, although it is not my place to act on it. If my opinion is asked privately I give the reasons for it. it is notable that few people ever asked about SF. The next significant event was the '89 MUFON Conference in Las Vegas. People ask me how I manage to get to such significant events when my budget does not allow for few such =91entertainment=92 events. This was the event when some leverage had to be used to get MUFON to allow Bill Cooper, Bill English and John Lear to have time to speak. Since the featured speaker was discussing the case of a helicoptor dropping in elevation 10 years before (with supporting data given from the Cash-Landrum case) I did not exactly get the feeling that MUFON was on the cutting edge of ufology and have not attended many of their functions. Perhaps this has changed. It is also the day that Bill Moore decided to make his great confession, and when they finally got him to shut up, there was little attention left for Jaques Valee=92s excellent talk. Phil class was there and Bill English leapt from the podium to strangle him for taking notes. It is a practice of mine when I am interested in a situation, to put myself in a place where I can observe facial expressions of someone who does not feel they are being watched. At this event the practice of leaving just before the applause and being near the outer door allowed me to hear that John Lear had a phone call waiting when he finished talking, and ufology history has it that this call was to inform him he was no longer employed. I assume this to be true. During Moore=92s speech, I saw SF gathering up his chickens in a= surreptitious manner. I predicted his long standing association with Moore was about to come to an end. I predicted which door he was likely to slither out of and got there first, I have a sinus condition that kicks up in public buildings and I was blowing my nose just outside the lecture room with a delicately embroidered handkerchief when he came through. It happened that a gentleman approached him and slowed his escape, stating that he had never been to one of these UFO events before but he had wanted to meet SF. He didn=92t have much time and hoped he could take him to lunch, but someone had told him that SF was with someone - could he invite the friend along? SF had been getting restless because he really did want to escape, and I do not recall his exact words, but the gist of it was, =91no, I am by myself - what did you want to talk about?=92 it was his attitude more than his words, and he took the arm of the man and became so engrossed with conversation that he failed to hear the people wanting to ask him what he thought about Bill Moore=92s confession. From that point he wasn=92t sure who Bill Moore was. Now these incidents do not compromise evidence, but later they will serve to support the other data. The refusal of UFO Magazine and FATE Magazine to support Willian Steinman and the UFO Crash At Aztec book are also interesting. Jerome Clark came out so firmly against the possibility of that crash that it changed my opinion of his credibility (and see where he turns up later). It happened that I was able to get a letter supporting Steinman into both FATE and UFO. Today I wonder why this occurred. At the time Vicki Cooper, who edited the UFO magazine with Sheryl Stark, came to UFORUM, and she was visibly nervous and obsequious to me. It was an open joke that she had felt people were government spies and was becoming a basket case about it, and her change in behavior, including publishing my letter, were proof to me she thought I could do her some harm. Later when I failed to do anything threatening, she pulled the free ad I hd run in the magazine to try and get a group in the Inland Empire going, though others still had their free ads running. Bill steinman called me at home to thank me for supporting him. A few months later when I called him he side he was not involved in UFO research and it was in his best interest not to get involved in any discussions about it, and wished me good day. The man was afraid. In a good story I would not point out these things until the end: Remember the panel with Bill Moore and SF also had Sheryl Stark, indicating a friendly relationship between a UFO Magazine editor and SF. I had often wondered how such a slick magazine was supported by subscribers. I assumed from the failure to back the excellent material in Steinman=92s book that there was some financing from vested interests for the magazine. It is to their credit that the articles they did publish were not slanted, with the exception of a series by a black doctor on missing pregnancies or a related topic. I had written for his questionaire and made comments about what I was finding, still na=EFve enough back then to think it was lack of knowledge rather than artful avoidance of true information. The man referred me to a group in San Francisco! Later he was very nervous around me at an event and when a friend who claimed to know him insisted he would be willing to examine the small pellets I have always had under the skin, the doctor said everything that was proper and ran like hell. (I should mention I have several physical differences from other people that these days I am smart enough not to mention. They are probably not connected to anything ufological) I believed by now that SF was being run on a short leash-meaning he was an agent that got just enough money to get by, and had to scury to earn any bonuses. Remember that in the intelligence community, a secret agent is not called an agent. When he has people working for him he is the controller and they are the agents. He runs them, and gives them money, but never enough that they can show an obvious change in lifestyle. He may also ask for money for other people he has found, and in most cases they would be taken by the controller and run directly. Occasionally they are run by the first agent who asks permission for everything he does. My main reason for suspecting SF was being run lean was his bad suits. If I were his controller I would not back his speaking at so many groups because he does not have the social skills to become part of the group and to be trusted. Also they are not giving him anything (new and valid ufo information to use to gain credibility) and he has to scurry like hell to have anything to say. I imagine they published his Corona book. For many years the second worst thing SF did to my knowledge was to disparage belief in Bob Lazar. The first worst was a situation that I will describe for you here, but can not use as proof since the details I would have to give to persuade anyone would identify her and open her to further problems. Letters I was allowed to read from SF were not in my possession long enough to memorize the sentences. In short there was a lady with some skills of interest to the bad side of our government. She resisted taking the employment offered. When she sought other employment she found the now required birth certificate and social security number she had all her life were considered false or forged. People involved in the events around her suggested she contact SF. In time she did. She was delighted to have him respond to her introductory note by sending her about a hundred dollars worth of books in her field of expertise, and suggestion a direction of research. Furthermore he hoped she could attend an up coming event and would be happy to cover the expenses of her room and meals and conference tickets. In later letters after she had been unable to attend, he invited her to come and stay at his home where they could work together on whatever projects she wanted to do. Despite the unbelievable details in the stories this woman had to tell, I was able to verify most of them. There were things that occurred in other places where I found that other people knew about her and that she had mysteriously disappeared and that everyone was trying to find her. My helping her to leave her former address was a casual plan and it was a surprise that it was considered to be the result of foreign agencies. I believed then and do now that some friendly outside influence had been involved. A safe place was found for her for several years and several years ago she moved from there giving me no information about where she would be. I do not want to have that knowledge. Although it might be safe to tell her story now, I can offer little proof of it. The next pertinent situation was the 1995 UFO Congress in Mesquite. The Santilli autopsy was the big issue and Graham Birdsell had come from England to present the points against it=92s being authentic. I had already decided for reasons of my own that it was genuine, but if it was not I wanted to be the first to say so. I liked Graham and his wife and talked to her quite a bit, as they had a table and I am friendly with the vendors. His wife said they had barely managed to make the trip and would not be likely to afford coming back in many years. I had the first of my self published books and I traded a copy for Graham=92s booklet on his analysis of the case. I promised him that I would go over it thoroughly. And I did - and it was, in short, a pile of crap. I was concerned that he understand why so that he could do better research, and we had a short correspondence about it after he went back. One comment he made was that the film should have been turned over to SF at once to pass judgment on it=92s authenticity. I made some diplomatic reply that many would feel otherwise and. He was defensive of SF and emotional about his dismissal of the film. It was as if it should be dismissed at all costs and he had to find any data what so ever to do so. I believed his attitude to be an emotional dislike for the contents of the film. It is possible that it was for reasons other than that. I do not attend events that I can not work as a volunteer, because of my financial situation. I also do not read much about UFOs because I can no longer afford to buy the books, but occasionally something comes my way. Now that I am on line I get to see a lot of references to UFO situations and I am sometimes called upon to give my opinion as to the truth of a situation, or to tell how I would analyze it, what other leads to consider, etc. I try to educate people to do decent research and not to fall into any traps that will spoil their judgement. During the year I came upon references to the South African crashes and to the fact that Graham and SF were investigating them. I could not tell from the stories if either or both of them were actually in Africa, but it was implied, and I understand now that two of three events are now labeled as hoaxes. At least one other reference linked the names of these men but I can not remember the details. I have a feeling that SF is heard from more in writing than on the lecture circuit, but I may be wrong about this since I am out of the loop of information. I was pleased and surprised to see Graham and his wife back at the conference this year. But within minutes I knew what had happened. he gave a half smile and refused to meet my eyes, and had someplace else to be. His wife and daughters and I think a son, were all there. I heard from another vendor that they didn=92t talk to the people who thought they had become friends the year before, except one daughter who said they would be going to all the conferences now. I work night security for the exhibits to earn my conference tickets, and one definite benefit of the job is to read everything in sight. I pulled out the 4 issues Graham had brought of his UFO magazine and studied them. There was a clear pattern of disinformation that I intended to later note piece by piece, but when I returned during the day to buy the magazines, the family had packed up and left for parts unknown. When I can get the issues I will do the analyses, but the thing that stands out the most is the story of Dr. Michale Wolf who - with the blessings of his supervisors, no less - admits to working at area 51 side by side with an alien and he SUPPORTS BOB LAZAR COMPLETELY! (the church lady would say =91how special=92) he also admits to having autopsied crashed bodies, had knowledge from his dad who did the Roswell bodies, etc. there are subtle points to his story that makes me know the thing was written by a master intelligence expert. The Roswell bodies are given the 6 fingers of the Santili film, and other aliens look just like us but have different organs. This stuff, like the Al Bilek stuff will be found to have infected truth in the common mind by seeing the catch phrases and fantastic concepts all over in other theories and beliefs for the next 50 years if the tone doesn=92t come before then. The connection with Bob Lazar=92s statements, the merging of modified data will be used in the future-you will see - to make it appear as if Bob had said it all like that, and when it is decided that our Dr. Michael Wolf goes down, they hope that Bob will be pulled with him. This is they type of disinformation setup that is made for people who are too ethical to be touched. Skully was one, and his sources were discredited in what would toady seem like a clumsy frame up. I forget just now the recent frame of of sources that is almost identical. The models in attics are similar, and today a sexual harassment charge is child=92s play. If anyone is interested, I believe that the Oliver=92s Castle video is not an attempt to discredit Colin Andrews but to get him to give information that will lead people to believe the government or military is capable of making crop circles. This was used after bob blew open Area 51 - I could not understand why, if the government denied that the saucers existed, they put on a show for any one who happens by. The only reason was that there were things they could not stop from being seen because they had no control over them, and so they create the impression that they are doing it all, that they have such capacities. Now we have built a pretty tight case, don=92t you think?, that sf is getting UFO periodical editors to skew information for financial gain. And with the way I tell a story, almost any UFO audience would buy it. but there is one thing that doesn=92t fit, and because of it, I believe that the set up is to pull down SF and I have been set up to do the dirty work. In that case, I do not have to fear retaliation - or do I? Remember when I was discussing running agents? The rule of what you pay them is based on their personality and situation-one man might get a million dollars, another the $568 dollars to replace a transmission. People who are in need of money to just present an appearance of being average, will work hard for pennies, but if given too much they will spend it in a showy manner and when they realize they are caught, they will make a showy confession like bil moore did. I expect Graham to break down in time and nauseate us all in a similar fashion. He was on the brink at Laughlin - the family was fighting, and his talk was not likely to get him invited back, half of it playing a movie we had all seen two nights before. And he knows that I know, though I am not sure if he understood what was going on when he defended SF to me last year. Graham and his family are displaying a great expense account - I was told they have a upscale rental car, and were not interested with trading material with other vendors when last year carrying anything back on the plane meant paying weight fees they did not have. I bill myself as =91the bad girl of ufology=92, sitting in the back of the room making rude noises-but enough people pay attention to know that I am an investigator. How could I fail to notice the spending and associate it with SF=92s partiality for publishers? If someone is orchestrating this, they could not realize I could read all the magazines, and before I did that I would not have put forward a theory - the skewing of information is the critical proof. So it is likely that some critical confirmation would be offered. Now how would that be done? It was a remarkable coincidence that a 96B sat next to me at the banquet! He said he was a 98C but then he tried to tell me that my son was too, and I am sure David said he is a 97C. My son told me once while he was in training that they would all give their right arms to be a 96B, which is what I am. And I am certain that the man who sat next to me was really a 96B. If he were the same as my son, and he claimed to have the similar job description, he would not have been taught the things that he mentioned while agreeing with me that there was no doubt about the sf thing. I did not feel I knew him from anywhere, but he said we had talked last year - could I have forgotten such a thing? Or could I have seen him once years ago in some training and someone was afraid he would remember. But he talked the talk and when I suggested I was supposed to notice because of the spending, he didn=92t get onto that, but used jargon that was music to my ears. I was astounded to find that my dinner partner thought I had found romance. But I am going paranoid - we chose the table and sent on-the tall man who is an old time ham operator and didn=92t need to be sitting with me if there were spooks around. If that is an issue some benevolent influence is orchestrating this thing, or I have just gone over the line and am seeing spies everywhere. There are a number of reasons why I think to might be possible that a conservative organization such as yours would be willing to help get this information out. If I am right about that and you do it can be in either of two ways. If I am associated with the data, I need to have strong support from someplace, speaking and being able to get some books published mainstream. That way I might be left alone. Or we can remove the references that refer to me and start circulating it starting in Europe, and then from ten places at once. Or if you are not interested in it, file it away for years and pull it out when some other case needs it for reference. If I tell it as a speaker I can add some of the less likely details of the woman I helped, so that it contains something that can be pointed to as crazy and I can be discredited in the minds of the masses with it and stronger methods will not be used. My concern is for my building permits and my dogs, and I don=92t have the money to satisfy any legal technicalities dredged up to bring me grief. Next week I will try to get the Cadiz story together - I suppose you can receive jpg files. And I assume that you have the last picture the Russian Mars probe took before disappearing? I thought it was old business now, but found out a lot of people want it. I do not have a full bed scanner so I have to send it in strips if you want it. I will get this to you a couple of times to prove how paranoid I am. If it is intended for Stanton to go down in flames, it will happen in any case, and if I should profit by it, that would be a by product of doing what must be done. I have sold maybe 500 of my books that I now bind at home, but with doing the building, working cement, etc, my hands are giving out. If I don=92t find a publisher and have money to pay people to do the rough work, I will have to stop writing. This situation just popped up and I was told to deal with it fast, but I have a lot of important things to say. Please let me know if you received it! and if you think I am crazy please spread it around so I can feel safer. Pat Weissleader ************************************************************ This message posted by: Ashley Rye <ashleyry@netcomuk.co.uk> ************************************************************ Send "subscribe starfriends <e-mail address>" to majordomo@esosoft.com to subscribe. For a digest version, send "subscribe starfriends-digest <e-mail address>" to the same address. Change the above to unsubscribe to leave. ************************************************************ Starfriends Site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/3870/ ************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Men In Black Vehicles From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:11:04 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:17:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Men In Black Vehicles >From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:09:01 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Men In Black Vehicles >Does anyone have any information on what the classic "men in black" are >found to be traveling in these days? The reason is, I do believe I had a >run in with these guys last night. It's a long story, but if ANYONE has >ANY information, it would be greatly appreciated. Tell us about your run-in. Roger R. Prokic Telecommunications Engineer Lockheed Martin Astronautics Denver, Colorado USA - using a 3Com PalmPilot Professional & HandStamp Pro 1.0 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:22:31 -0400 Subject: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media by D. Trull Enigma Editor <A HREF="aol://4344:926.en_fdbak.1368554.516214994">pscptrull@aol.com</A> The Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), the most prominent organization involved in the debate over the paranormal, has taken a stand against pseudoscience and excessive credulity in the media. The skeptical group is resorting to that time-honored strategy of business and politics: if you can't beat 'em, buy 'em. Or at least snap up enough shares of stock to make yourself be heard. CSICOP's Council for Media Integrity has announced a donor-funded campaign to purchase common stock in the five major media conglomerates: General Electric (NBC), Disney (ABC), Westinghouse (CBS), Fox NewsCorp and Time Warner. The aim of the "Media Stock Fund" is for CSICOP to gain entry to board rooms and challenge the media's paranormal proclivities as a shareholder. CSICOP was founded in the 1970s by Paul Kurtz, humanist philosopher and president of Prometheus Books, who remains CSICOP's chairman today. The group publishes the widely respected journal Skeptical Inquirer, and its list of illustrious advocates includes debunker James Randi, mathematician Martin Gardner, entertainer Steve Allen and the late Carl Sagan. CSICOP's primary objective is to serve as an independent evaluator of claims of paranormal phenomena. Despite having the word "Investigation" in its name, since 1981 the group has followed a policy of not conducting research itself, in order to preserve its impartiality. The most visible and perhaps most vital of CSICOP's concerns is its role as a media watchdog. Since its earliest days the group has assailed TV programs and reports that feature psychics, UFOs and the unexplained in a non-critical or sensational light. In 1996 CSICOP launched the Council for Media Integrity, a division devoted to demanding scientific literacy and adherence to fact in the news and entertainment industries. "The media have now virtually replaced the schools, colleges, and universities as the main source of information for the general public," Kurtz said at a press conference announcing the Media Stock Fund. "The irresponsibility of the media in the area of science and the paranormal is a worldwide problem. But it especially applies to the United States, where the media have been distorting science, and in particular, presenting pseudoscience as genuine science." Although <A HREF="aol://4344:926.en_xfile.1338820.539658868">The X-Files</A><A HREF="aol://4344:926.en_xfile.1338820.539658868"> has been a lightning rod of criticism</A> from some skeptics, CSICOP officials have indicated that fictional dramas of its sort are not objectionable, so long as they make no claims of being real. CSICOP's real target is "reality programming" and "documentaries" that present paranormal and pseudoscientific material as unquestioned fact. For instance, in February 1996 NBC broadcast a program entitled The Mysterious Origins of Man, which CSICOP described as "aggressive anti-science propaganda." Narrated by Charlton Heston, the program ridiculed Darwinian evolution, argued that humans and dinosaurs had lived at the same time, and proposed that the continent that is now Antarctica was once Atlantis. CSICOP blasted NBC for presenting this claptrap without a balanced scientific viewpoint; nevertheless, NBC chose to give the program a second airing the following June, completely unchanged. "We are not, of course, asking that TV producers not run these [paranormal-themed] shows or make a profit," Kurtz emphasizes. "We surely do not wish to censor the media. We only ask that they provide some balance and some appreciation of the scientific approach." CSICOP has proposed mandatory disclaimers for documentary-style programming on the paranormal, labeling it plainly as speculation for entertainment purposes. CSICOP hopes its protests will become more effective once the group is an investor in the businesses of its foes. But it will take a lot of supporter donations to secure the necessary amounts of media conglomerate stocks, the dividends from which will go entirely to the operating expenses of the Council For Media Integrity. To learn more about CSICOP and the Media Stock Fund, visit the CSICOP web site: <A HREF="http://www.csicop.org">http://www.cs icop.org</A> Additional Sources: Skeptical Inquirer, May/June 1997; "CSICOP and the Skeptics: An Overview," George P. Hansen (c) Copyright 1997 ParaScope, Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Strange Lights From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:30:55 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:20:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Lights > From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:13:02 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Strange lights > My question is a simple but dignified one. What are all these small > white lights, that seem to be traveling effortlessly, that I see almost > every night I stargaze? Could they be satelites? Balloons? Any > suggestion are welcome. I'd have to say satellites if they moved in a straight line. I have seen a few myself though there was something strange about them one night. It was around 11.00 pm local time (+1 GMT) and two pinpricks of light (I assumed a pair of satellites or very, very high flying planes) moved south (towards Libya). While they were still visible a third pinprick of light crossed their paths (behind them) at roughly their same speed going due east. Thought it strange that all 3 satellites would come so close together in the same instant. Anyone had a similar experience? Regards, JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:24:16 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples' From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:58:34 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:29:51 -0400 Subject: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples For > Dr. Leir revealed to Rense that Ray Santilli then passed into their > possession 4 frames of the original film on the strict and absolute > condition that it be thoroughly analysed by the best appropriate > scientific experts and that the results of the analysis of the film and > any remainder of the four frames themselves be returned to him without > public disclosure of the results; that he, Santilli, would decide if, > how, and when those results will be made public. Leir and Sims agreed. Somehow, I don't think this is exactly what happened. Though I'm not sure what Mr. Santilli would have to say about this (non)event would be any more credible. There are two sides to every story (sometimes one of them may even be the truth), and surely there is someone on this list who knows a little more. <g> Over to you Bob. Rebecca Search for other documents from or mentioning: xiannekei |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Bell Labs and the military, leads From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:52:25 +0200 (MET DST) Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:25:53 -0400 Subject: Bell Labs and the military, leads Hi all, Col. Phillips Corso's book 'The Day after Roswell' speaks of the US Army feeding Bell Labs with alien technology, starting in 1947. If this is true, there must have been a very well established relationship between the US Army and Bell Labs, especially during the war years. Now I don't doubt that that was the case, considering that Bell Labs was big and a part of AT & T. But I don't understand why the US Army approached Bell Labs with most of the alien technology. Why not divide the alien technology pie equally among several big technological companies? Is there evidence that Bell Labs or AT & T were not only big defense contractors, but also outclassed most other industrial firm in defense contracts by a margin? Another question is: on what was the reputation of Bell Labs based before they invented the transistor? Maybe these are interesting research leads. _______________________________________________________ / Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes \ Henny van der Pluijm hvdp@worldonline.nl Leiden, The Netherlands \_________________________________________________/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Pat Weisslander 'letter' on Stan Friedman From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:29:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Pat Weisslander 'letter' on Stan Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Made nasty cracks and can't remember them? What kind of outrageous nonsense is this? No rational person hearing my lectures or reading my books or my many papers could possibly think I have any relationship with the CIA other than antagonistic. I have sent out thousands of copies of The Cosmic Watergate which certainly isn't friendly to the CIA. I have no idea who Patricia Weisslander is or why she would even suggest such an idiotic viewpoint.. and not have courage to confront me with whatever crazy reasons she might have. Who is she? Why to believe her? It seems far more likely to me that she works for some agency that wants to discredit serious scientific work. How about proving to me that you [A. Rye] and she don't work for the CIA? How in the world could I possibly demonstrate that I have not attempted to influence the outcome (what does outcome mean in this context??) of various UFO Publications at the bequest of these influences?? Provide unwritten letters? Put up or shut up and stop spreading nonsense. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 PROJECT-1947 - Corso in North Africa From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:48:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:00:30 -0400 Subject: PROJECT-1947 - Corso in North Africa Greetings List Members, COL Corso says on page 26: "I can remember a time when I was so young and feeling so invincible that there was nothing in the world I was afraid of. I had faced down fear in North Africa. With General Patton's army I stood toe-to-toe against the artillery in Rommel's Panzer Divisions and gave them better than they dished out...." Well, very interesting. Of course, Patton was a Corps commander, then. Corso was indeed an Artillery Officer. Although a few pages later he refers to himself as an Intelligence Officer--just a slip. His job was intelligence why should he think about his branch at moments like this. Just seems that his records have caught up with his recollections. 23 Feb 42-9 Dec 42 OSC and Air Artillery, School at Fort Davis, NC. 10 Dec 42 to 22 Jan 43 Anit-Aircraft Artillery Staff Officer Camp Edwards, Massachusetts 22 Jan 43 to 18 Apr 43 Student Officer, Military Training Center, Camp Ritchie, Maryland 18 Arp 43 to 1 Sep 43 Prisoner of War Interrogation at G-2 Section, HQ, ETOUSA 1 Sep 43 to 21 Feb 44 Interpreter (Italian) 2680 Hq Co., MIS NATOUSA Now someone who has with better knowledge of WW II than I have is going to have to help me out. Where was HQ ETOUSA during 1943? Of course, Corso did not specifically state that he was in the Artillery giving Rommel just as bad as he got. So that is maybe why personnel did not give him assignment credit for such action. Also, they failed to give him credit for the North African campaigns. Shame on them. Shame on Corso for not correcting his records during his annual audits. Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Colorado Sighting Reports From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:12:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:14:19 -0400 Subject: Colorado Sighting Reports The following are sighting reports that have come into Colorado MUFON over the last few months. The reports herein are in the witnesses own words. All names have been with held at the request of the witnesses. ********************* 8/12/97 I videotaped an airliner and a UFO during the Dec10, 95 Bronco game. I got about 8 minutes of footage, this object disappearing and popping in and out of clouds a couple of times. We observed the same object three days earlier from a position 2.5 miles east of the video. ********************** 8/7/97 Well it appears the Fort Collins, CO really does have a UFO flight path that is fairly consistent. The first sighting was from SSE to NNW, the second was the reverse course, the third sighting was from West to East, and the fourth sighting was from NNW to SSE. This last sighting was a cluster of many small cresant moon shapes (15-25 moving to fast to count) moving in unison but not in formation. They appeared to move around each other like a flock of birds or schooling fish. The appearance of the combined mass changed shape as they flew over at approx. 500-1000 ft. above our heads. This occurred at 10.22 PM. The third and fourth sighting of these objects were almost identical as far as appearance, speed, and the way the shape of the mass changed. This sighting was seen by myself and my wife. [ALSO SEE 6/24/97 REPORT] *********************** 7/23/97 I was on a United Airline flight into Denver last summer, can't remember the date. Looking down below the aircraft I saw a stationary object which was a bright green and shaped like an old clothes trunk. It was perfectly smooth in appearance and motionless. It's the last thing you would think of in seeing a UFO, --- a green trunk! The size of the object was difficult to determine as I didn't know how far away it was and at what altitude. I'm positive it wasn't a balloon. I am sorry I waited so long, and can't recall all that much, or have any corroborating information. Just chalk this up to your list if that is appropriate. ********************* 6/24/97 Sunday night (6/21/97) at 11:15 PM we were in the back yard watching the sky. The first thing we saw was a dim light we thought was a satellite because we see them all the time. The odd thing about this one was that as we watched it, it would get VERY bright and then fade to a dim light about every 10 sec. It did not seem to be as high as we normally see satellites. [name withheld] began to count the approx. seconds between the bright and dim cycles. It appeared overhead and we watched it until it disappeared in the North. We are not sure if this was anything but a satellite. At 11:30 PM [name withheld] began saying, "look at that" ,"look at that"! I looked up towards the West and saw a squadron of small disk shaped objects flying in real tight formation, traveling from West to East over our heads. The moon was almost full in the SE. It seemed that the leading edge was illuminated by the moon, giving these object the appearance of a crescent shape. I estimate that there may have been 10-15 or more of these objects. The formation was irregular, not like Air Force formation flying. We watched them fade from view to the East. There was no sound and the movement was very smooth. They were possibly around 800-1000 ft. high, (this is an approximation as the sky was totally clear). I do not know if the pulsating light and the squadron had anything to do with each other, but the cluster of crescent shapes was certainly hair raising. They were moving very fast. We only saw them for about 7-9 seconds. ****************************** 6/23/97 On KOBF TV's 10 pm newscast just now (Monday) the weatherman said "If you're out stargazing, you might spot some UFOs in the southern sky. We did, and we don't know what they were." Unfortunately, that's all he said about that. Wish they'd head north, so I could see them here in Durango (I of course looked -- nada.) Wrong state, I know, but close enough. ******************************* 6/19/97 Dear Mr. Curta, I am writing to tell you about something very odd that I saw over the weekend. I am not seeking publicity or fame, I just want some advice as to what I should do next, because it has been bothering me quite a bit. Early Saturday morning, at about 1:25 am, a neighbor's cat was meowing in my back yard, so I went outside to tend to her. It was a very clear night, and I was looking up at the stars, when I caught something out of the corner of my eye. It was a cluster of extremely bright orange-gold colored lights drifting above the tree line, maybe about 1 mile or so away (it was difficult to estimate). It was drifting very slowly without making a sound. It definitely was not an airplane or helicopter. After staring at it for less than a minute, I became a bit frightened and went back inside to watch it through the kitchen window. I watched for a couple of minutes when I realized that I should capture this thing on tape. So, I rushed to my office and retrieved my camcorder. I returned to the kitchen window and filmed it through the window. I recorded it for about 30 seconds before it descended below the tree line. The whole event lasted for about 5 minutes. Now I am debating what I should do. I want to remain anonymous as I am a very private person and do not want to attract any attention to myself. Also, I am a professional software engineer and I don't want to jeopardize my credentials. But I would like to have my tape analyzed, if possible. The recording is not very remarkable, as it was taken at night and the lights were obscured by trees. Can MUFON have my tape analyzed? Perhaps someone can determine what this was that I saw. Any advise you can offer is greatly appreciated. Thank you. NAME WITHHELD ****************************** 6/11/97 We saw a bright object, like a star, in the NE sky near Grand Lake approximate 10PM on May 31, 1997. It was moving back and forth, making sorta jerky movements while moving NE. We did report it to the Sky-Hi Newspaper out of Granby and also to the Grand County Sheriff's dept. ******************************* ===---=== This list Sponsored by: http://comufon.ufo.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Men In Black Vehicles From: "skyeking@aye.net" <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:28:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:23:02 -0400 Subject: Men In Black Vehicles > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:11:04 GMT > Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Men In Black Vehicles > From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > >From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) > >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:09:01 -0500 > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Men In Black Vehicles > >Does anyone have any information on what the classic "men in black" are > >found to be traveling in these days? The reason is, I do believe I had a > >run in with these guys last night. > Tell us about your run-in. > Roger R. Prokic My Associate, Clint Stone, filed this report with me which will run this month in our KY/MUFON newsletter, the "Bluegrass Bulletin," regarding his possible UFO sighting and MIB encounter: On Sunday night, about 9:30 p.m., I took a stroll outside my house in hopes of taking some pictures of the planet Jupiter for my Astronomy class. It turned out to be a cloudy night so I looked around for something else to photograph. It was then that I noticed a bright light coming through a stand of trees off in the distance and to the south of me. I followed the object's progress until it came into full view and immediately noticed it didn't look like an airplane - although I assumed that it was. The object sported a combination of red, yellow, and white lights all around it, instead of the regulation red, white and green. "Man, this thing's goin' down!" I thought to myself as I continued to watch the object. It was flying at such an extreme angle towards the ground that I thought it must be about to crash or land on the highway. I did hear what I thought to be the sound of a twin-engine aircraft but this object couldn't have been an airplane and survive such a steep angle of descent. I snapped a picture of the object then repositioned myself in order to keep an eye on it until it disappeared from view. Then I began the short walk back to my house. That's when I noticed the headlights of a car approaching my neighbor's driveway. As I continued to watch, the car extinguished its lights and pulled up slowly in front of mine. Standing only twenty feet away from it at this point, I was able to make out the vague silhouette of someone staring at me (at least that's what it felt like) from the driver's seat. Then I stepped into the glare of a nearby security light in order to get a better look. The car -- a dark colored, luxury compact of recent vintage -- immediately sped off at this point, turning on its headlights as it did. I immediately phone SD Jerry Washington who asked me to contact the Henderson (KY.) and Evansville (IN.) airports to see if any crashes or reports of similar objects had been logged. The answer was negative on both counts; no crashed or aircraft of ANY description reported at that time. This also included blimps and advertising planes. The local police department was contacted, too, with similar results. The next night, just out of curiosity, I stepped outside again to see what I could see and noticed an airplane in the same general area. But in this case it was obviously a plane. It had the regulation lights, and it's outline was clearly visible, unlike the night before. Jerry Washington SD KY/MUFON Search for other documents from or mentioning: skyeking | rprokic |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 UFOSearch #9: part 4c-1 /4 The Lear Scenario: From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:23:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:24:52 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #9: part 4c-1 /4 The Lear Scenario: This is part 4c-1 of the fourth part of the ninth essay by UFOSearch. The titles and parts of the complete essay are: UFOSearch #9: Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Part One - Abstract and Introduction Part Two - Counterintelligence And UFO Analysis Part Three - The Counterintelligence Use Of Research And Analysis In Small-Scale UFO Investigations Part Four 4a - Evaluating UFO Scenarios Using Counterintelligence 4b - UFO Scenario Analysis: THE KEYHOE SCENARIO 4c - The Lear Scenario And UFO History 4c-1 The Lear Scenario: Introduction and Background 4c-2 The Lear Scenario: Analysis 4c-3 The Lear Scenario: Notes To Section 4c 4d - The Streiber Scenario and The Future of The UFO We apologize for the endless proliferation of parts; however, this essay has grown far beyond the original intent. Unfortunately we still don't know how long it will ultimately be as it is still being completed. NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. If you would like to correspond with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com Commentary: For serious readers, any "non-fiction" work that does not include a good reference section and an extensive selection of endnotes is very close to a waste of time. On the other hand, there are those who never take the time to read those notes and references, no matter how informative they may be. Don't make that mistake with this article. Read the numbered paragraphs in the Notes, part 4c-3. There is a reason the word "noteworthy" exists in our language. As for the Lear Letters themselves, they are now nearly ten years old and yet there remain unasked questions about them. This is not surprising since most in ufology wish that they had never appeared. But the Lear Letters can be combined with other information to yield a coherent interpretation of the last half-century, the five decades since Arnold saw the objects which skipped like saucers on the water. The "Fearless Ufologist" (TM) leads us forward... Gary Alevy (c) 1997 -------------------------------------------------------------- UFOSearch Columbia, Missouri Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Part 4c-1: The Lear Scenario And The History Of The UFO Val Germann (c)1997 Introduction With this scenario we at last step off the cliff and out into space, at least as far as many in "ufology" are concerned. This has always struck me as a bit odd, the intellectual equivalent of a geologist trying to study a rock with a ten-foot pole. That is, we ARE looking into the possibility of "others" operating here on Earth, aren't we? Yes. Well, where are the limits to that? Are we to build artificial fences around an inquiry that could be of vast importance? Apparently so. It's that middle- class-respectable mentality again; some things are just taboo. "Well, yes, I seriously consider the possibility that "others" are here on Earth with us today," some seem to say, "but they just fly around in their vehicles and don't actually DO anything, other than perhaps crash occasionally." Such people are to ufology what Bill Clinton is to marijuana smoking. That is, they are tarred with the brush of illicit consumption without deriving any benefit from it. The idea that you can be a "respectable ufologist" by avoiding the unpleasant elements in the field is akin to thinking you can be "a little bit pregnant" by saying "no" a day late. If you doubt my take on this look at the current issue of ASTRONOMY magazine and see what the next generation of scientists is reading about us. [55] Are strange beings from other worlds or dimensions here on Earth doing things? And if they are, are they just playing around or are they here for a reason, a reason of importance? And if they're here for no significant reason, why do you care? When the Spanish missionaries moved into North America to "save" the natives from paganism there were millions of those Indians running around. And they had their own culture with an ancient history and literature. Twenty-five years later, with the cross triumphant, death and devastation ruled the scene. As a Catholic I sometimes wonder if those millions of souls now reside in heaven or hell. Thomas Aquinas, a "father" of the Catholic Church who helped rehabilitate the ancient Greeks for Medieval Europe, once wrote that the only people who couldn't be saved are those who wouldn't be dragged into heaven with wild horses, or something like that. (He was very ecumenical.) I tend to side with the great Aquinas on this and so put those Indians with the saints in heaven, where they no doubt have to rub shoulders with their killers from this life. Or, maybe not. In any event, I have steeped myself in UFO lore, ALL of it, for a decade now. I thus consider myself a "UFO analyst" (in the OSS, R&A sense) of some ability, though this is hardly a recom- mendation in the wider world. And I state from my exalted position that it is disgusting but true that elements of the Lear Letters "fit" with other information I have gathered over the years. And the Letters explain, where little else will, certain aspects of the UFO phenomenon. Does this make them true, whatever that means? No. Does it make them interesting? Yes. I tend to believe in a sort of "zeitgeist" existing at any given time in history. We all sense this, that every historical period has a motif that dominates, a "spirit" that defines it. My term for the Post World War II period in American history, as set out in my Chronology, has been "The Age Of Betrayal." [56] That is, in spite of all of our recent material development, which has been a boon to most of us (and to ALL male, middle-class ufolo- gists), the basic lesson of the last 50 years is that the improvements we little people have seen were at the convenience of our betters (and are being reversed now) and that our health and safety are in fact quite incidental to other operations. I grew up in Carroll County, Missouri, in the 1950s, and we got pasted several times with fallout, as did much of the rest of the northern half of our state. [57] Several of my friends from school are already dead of cancer and two of my three sisters have developed the disease. Two cousins of mine have died of cancer, one of them at the age of 15, after a horrible battle that lasted several years. Thus, I am on my guard. I believe that if you will study the record carefully you will find that where the rubber meets the road the individual citizen is quite expendable, at least as far as our economic elites are concerned. Recent history abundantly shows, if you will take the time to examine it, that the moment any one of us becomes a burden to some of our top dogs, or becomes inconvenient to them, well, we are very likely to soon be gone, sometimes displaced, sometimes injured, sometimes even killed. And all the claptrap about Constitutional rights and such are of no consequence. Those of you who follow the "open source" U.S. press are no doubt aware of the following information, all of which was "in the news" of late and should be easy to find if desired: 1) When the government wanted to test the effects of radiation on infants, Black women from the south were enticed into programs under which they were given metered doses of various radioactive substances, provoking one upset researcher to write that the program had "the Buchenwald touch." Information about this program was released voluntarily by the government and it must be noted that it is nearly of a "control" type, that is, very low doses were involved. But almost without a doubt the "real" data, what they were REALLY after, and what they REALLY got, will never see the light of day. That program is STILL a very deep secret. 2) The Tuskegee syphilis studies, involving Black male prisoners, ran for decades and effected hundreds of people but generated career-advancing data for many, many government and private researchers, nearly all of them white. The fact that it wreaked havoc on hundreds of Black families did not become an issue for some THIRTY YEARS. 3) In St. Louis, the early 1950s, the Army proposed to spray a "harmless" bacteria into the air over the city and then sample the population to see how the bacteria was propagated and absorbed. The city fathers reluctantly agreed -- to let the Army spray the material over the Black parts of town, which was done. Here in the Midwest what used to be called "miscegenation" is still very strongly frowned upon. I am referring to interracial marriage. Many, many Black men in the United States have met with bad ends as a result of marrying a White woman, as have some of the women who married those men. Let me see, what was the racial status of the first couple known to be abducted in the United States? I find that datum most interesting. 4) The U.S. Army and the Atomic Energy Commission knowingly exposed tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers to huge amounts of radiation during nuclear tests in the 1950s. This is on a par with what was done to the Navaho uranium miners, who were allowed to work without safety equipment, for years, in conditions that were KNOWN (thanks to "liberated" Nazi data) to have killed uranium miners in Europe by the hundreds. 5) In 1992 I had a student in my class, a recently discharged Marine, who had spent many months in Kuwait during the Gulf War of 1991. He told me he was quite ill much of the time, as were several of his Marine buddies. This scandal, of thousands of U.S. military personnel exposed to toxic substances and then discharged with no medical benefits whatsoever, harks back to the Spanish-American War, when similar scandals (involving hundreds of U.S. soldiers stranded in the Far East) led to the creation of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. [58] In other countries, where local interests come up against our multi-national corporations, the situation can be truly awesome. The recent book THY WILL BE DONE, [58], shows how various American organizations, operating mainly under Rockefeller aegis, have killed hundreds of thousands of "native" South Americans, all in the pursuit of oil, minerals or grazing lands, since the First World War. Then there was Vietnam. [59] So, for me, the Lear Letters were shocking and disgusting but hardly outside the pale. This was because I already was a witness to the unspeakable (produced by human beings) and suspected that something large, something unspeakable, something TRULY "alien," was behind the program these "others" were running. The Lear Letters were no worse, in many ways, that what was on the public record, if one was willing to examine it. THE LEAR LETTERS: SOME BACKGROUND I first saw the Lear Letters in January, 1989, which was not a good time for me, ufologically speaking. The reasons were: 1) A horrific "cattle mutilation" flap had just ended here; 2) I was getting frightening information from several sources. No doubt about it, the Lear Letters fell on fertile ground, in part because I had been hearing summaries of the Letters since mid-1988, just before animals had started dying under mysterious circumstances, out in the county and even right here in Columbia, in one case only blocks from my house. On the national scene interest in UFOs was on the rise, due primarily to Whitley Strieber's COMMUNION, which landed him on Johnny Carson and in The New York TIMES. The Lear material never went "national" in the same way, at least not with the public. But to those seriously looking into UFOs and paying attention to the literature, the Lear Letters caused a sensation. The gist of the Letters was that the United States government has known about "aliens" since the late 1940s, has been in contact with them since 1964 and has been ALLIED with one group of them since the 1960s. [60] But that wasn't the heart of the matter. It seems that our higher-ups were said to have a made "deal" with these "aliens," a deal that traded the bodies of U.S. citizens for certain esoteric vehicles and technology. Thousands of people were said to have been abducted and experimented upon. The visible source was John Lear, son of the founder of Lear Instruments and a military and airline pilot extraordinaire. Included in the first Lear Letter was an update of the Keyhoe scenario, one that depicted the "Grays" as being in very deep trouble and needing human genetic material to both sustain themselves and to reproduce. One human mutilation was written of by Lear but it was stated that many more had been done and that in facilities shared with "them" there were "huge vats filled with amber liquid" containing human body parts. Lear's sources went on to say that when it was discovered that some of the nation's "runaway children" were being used for nutrition by the Grays, an attempt was made to terminate some operations, with disastrous results for our side. Here was a gruesome detail all but guaranteed to put this information beyond the pale with nearly every respectable ufologist. Who could believe this kind of horror story!? Well, I could -- at least entertain it. Lear went on to outline what he called "the Grand Deception" which was a large-scale psych-war program to both hide these operations from the public while at the same time preparing that same public for a possible full confession by our elites, should the situation require it. This left him wide open to standard charges of "conspiracy theorist," which in some circles are magic words ending study and discussion. But not for me. [61] The first Lear Letter was apparently circulated in the fall of 1987, at about the same time as COMMUNION was climbing the best-seller charts. The second letter, a summary of the long- rumored "Grudge 13" material, appeared just about the same time (late '88) as a cable program called "UFO COVER-UP, LIVE!" aired, which could have been viewed as an "anti-Lear show," speaking as it did of strange yet friendly aliens guesting in underground bases out West, eating strawberry ice cream and telling us all about their civilization. It was sort of like "ET" had grown up and was now instructing us in his alien ways. [62] At this same time I met a former Army man who told me that he had seen something that looked for all the world like a flying saucer, up on large wooden blocks, in an Air Force hanger. For 25 years he had kept the secret but now, with all that was taking place, he wanted to tell someone. "Thanks a lot," I said. And then I met another ex-military man who gave me a story that put the one above into the shade. It was a doozy, and it fit much better into a "Strieber-esque" world than into the world of Lear, although there was some overlap. More on this in Part 4d. But it was the local animal deaths that were absolutely chilling. In one local case several cattle were found dead, lined up in a field, with the typical "mutilation" marks. More than thirty gallons of blood was missing and nowhere to be seen. In another case a calf, a family pet, was removed from a locked pen near the house and deposited the next morning, dead, directly in front of the house, similarly "mutilated." In the latter case local law enforcement, shocked to the core along with the owner of the animal and his family, formed a 1/4-mile-long skirmish line and swept a circle one-half mile in diameter, finding not one clue as to how this crime was committed. Needless to say, the local area was in an uproar, though all most people heard was nonsense about "Satanic cults." But in spite of intense investigation, including helicopter-borne reaction teams and state police support, no one was ever charged with any of the horrible animal deaths that occurred. [63] In their desperation the sheriff's department arrested a kid from Centralia, up the road, and told the press that he was part of a Satanic gang that was being broken up. But he had an alibi for everything and in the very nasty affair that followed one deputy sheriff was fired and the arrestee accepted a settlement from the county. And that's where it has stood through all the years since. The topper, for me, was a cat, found in my neighborhood, flayed alive. That is, the elderly woman who owned this cat heard it on the front porch, and upon opening the door, found the animal standing up, shaking, without any skin, even on its head! It died in agony minutes later and the police were called. But what could they do? It happened in broad daylight, in a part of town where everyone knows everyone else. No one had seen a thing. So, as you can see, I was set up for the Lear Letters and they lit my afterburners in a big way. I redoubled my research efforts and in the middle of this work my phone seemed to get tapped, as I related earlier. By the very late 1980s I had been on the "Dark Side" of the UFO for quite a while and there was no end in sight. The Lear Letters fit right into this situation. The first version of the scenario you are about to read was written in 1990 and then revised somewhat in 1991. I am expanding it for this publication and taking the time to explain some of the references to the Letters themselves, which many readers may have never seen in the original. By the way, I got my copy from a gentleman who worked at the time for Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) and he took it off his company's computer bulletin board! But I believe that ParaNet was the original medium through which this material was made public. What I am going to do is use the Lear Letters as a controlling framework for a "new look" at the 50-year history of the UFO. Are the Lear Letters "true?" Who knows? Do they explain some things that are otherwise unexplainable? Maybe. See what you think. THE LEAR SCENARIO: MORE BACKGROUND The Lear Letters do not have the cachet of the Keyhoe material. The original information, relayed verbally to John Lear, was given by unnamed sources. The second installment, a summary of the so-called "Grudge 13" material, was leaked by someone named Bill English, who apparently is ex-military but not anywhere near the standing of an Air Force Colonel on active duty at the Pentagon. Thus the letters are way down the food chain compared to the information Keyhoe was given. However, the contents of the letters certainly imply that someone fairly high-up in what I have called "the UFO program" had to be involved. But this material reflects well on NO ONE, anywhere, and that is another huge difference between this leak and the one transmitted through Keyhoe. That is, only in the very direst of circumstances could you imagine ANYONE, bureaucratic winner OR loser, leaking this material. It is that damaging. But after examining the contents of the letters, well, "dire" is rather mild for the situation they describe. Could such things be leaked by insiders frightened silly by what they knew? I had to conclude that is was possible. And remember, there is a rule in our American bureaucracy: Almost Everything Leaks -- ONCE! It is what happens next that determines whether or not the "secret" is kept. This is very important. For instance, back in the 1940s, if you were paying attention, doing your research and analysis, you could have deduced the existence of a project like the one that led to the atomic bomb. The clues were everywhere, if you were looking for them! There were even a few leaks, which were not allowed to "resonate," that is, get picked up by the mainstream press and commented on in editorials, op-ed pieces and on the radio, where most Americans then got their news. [64] In the great world outside, absolute secrecy is NOT necessary to carry on a TOP SECRET project. The thing can be shot full of leaks, but if none of them "resonate," if the damage is limited to the original publication, then nothing will get done about the project, whatever it is. Insider leakers sometimes find to their sorrow that getting the word out does not magically result in relief. If the leak does not resonate, is not picked up and talked about by opinion leaders in the press and public, the story will soon die. . .and so also may the leaker, who is likely to at least be looking for another job. [65] With this in mind ask yourself, "What effect have the Lear Letters actually had?" Well, when you think about it, not very much. A few in "ufology" have paid attention to them and they have "resonated" out into the "conspiracy-nut" sections of the populist right wing, but that's about it. The general public knows nothing about them and they have had no visible effect on the debate about UFO secrecy and our government. In fact, upon reflection, their main effect has been to hold the ufological field up to ridicule, at least in some quarters, which explains why some in "ufology" would like to make them go away. There are many who would rather rule in a comfortable ufology than live in one thrown into ugly uncertainty. But I believe we have to be fearless in "ufology," and sometimes we have to take some risks. Remember, "He who will not risk, cannot win." So, let's bite the bullet and move on to the "letters" themselves and to where they might take us. THE LEAR LETTERS AS ANALYTICAL TOOL John Lear, the visible source, whose father was mentioned by Keyhoe has having some UFO connections, claimed as he published the "letters" that the people who gave him the information were in a position to know something. [66] One of these people may have been the aforementioned Bill English, who apparently is a real person. But it almost does not matter. That is, once information this explosive is out in the world, things take their own course. In the atmosphere of the late 1980s the Lear Letters were like a match struck in a telephone booth full of gasoline vapor. Something was going to go boom, and quickly, at least among those who were seriously involved in UFO research. Were the Lear Letters a form of Black Propaganda, intended to sow disorder and confusion among ufologists, all the while holding them up to ridicule? It was certainly possible. They followed by several years the leaking of the "MJ-12" documents, which at the time were causing a huge uproar among the ufologically inclined. [67] Were the Letters intended to divert attention away from the MJ-12 leak? That was possible, too. Or was this whole business what I call an "inoculation?" That is, were The Lear Letters a way to hide a version of the truth in plain sight, by leaking them in such a way as to be ridiculed and denied, thus making the subject off-limits to any "respectable" investigator? Stranger things have happened, though not much. And was it possible that the Letters were simply a malicious prank, the kind one could imagine a cynic like James Moseley (Saucer Smear) [68] playing on everyone, just to watch the fun. The ufological world was certainly vulnerable to such a prank, many of its practitioners conditioned to disaster and looking for the REAL reason for all the secrecy and denial. What a mess. But to me it didn't matter. I was already in a mess and I was looking around for an explanation. Considering the bizarre things that had already happened to me the Lear Letters were not outrageous at all. In fact, they were in some ways a guiding light, illuminating some dark corners and allowing some muddied texts to be read, perhaps for the first time. So, with the Lear Letters as a rough guide let's go back over the 50 years of the UFO Phenomenon and view some of what we know as a counterintelligence operation protecting a set of secrets, some of them deadly ones. I hate to say it but this scenario makes some sense more often than I would like. On that happy note, let us begin our analysis. *** [End -- Part 4c-1 of Part Four]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 UFOSearch #9: part 4c-2 /4 The Lear Scenario: From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:24:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:27:17 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #9: part 4c-2 /4 The Lear Scenario: This is part 4c-2 of the fourth part of the ninth essay by UFOSearch. The titles and parts of the complete essay are: UFOSearch #9: Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Part One - Abstract and Introduction Part Two - Counterintelligence And UFO Analysis Part Three - The Counterintelligence Use Of Research And Analysis In Small-Scale UFO Investigations Part Four 4a - Evaluating UFO Scenarios Using Counterintelligence 4b - UFO Scenario Analysis: THE KEYHOE SCENARIO 4c - The Lear Scenario And UFO History 4c-1 The Lear Scenario: Introduction and Background 4c-2 The Lear Scenario: Analysis 4c-3 The Lear Scenario: Notes To Section 4c 4d - The Streiber Scenario and The Future of The UFO NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. If you would like to correspond with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com Commentary: For serious readers, any "non-fiction" work that does not include a good reference section and an extensive selection of endnotes is very close to a waste of time. On the other hand, there are those who never take the time to read those notes and references, no matter how informative they may be. Don't make that mistake with this article. Read the numbered paragraphs in the Notes, part 4c-3. There is a reason the word "noteworthy" exists in our language. As for the Lear Letters themselves, they are now nearly ten years old and yet there remain unasked questions about them. This is not surprising since most in ufology wish that they had never appeared. But the Lear Letters can be combined with other information to yield a coherent interpretation of the last half-century, the five decades since Arnold saw the objects which skipped like saucers on the water. The "Fearless Ufologist" (TM) leads us forward... Gary Alevy (c) 1997 -------------------------------------------------------------- UFOSearch Columbia, Missouri Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Part 4c-2: The Lear Scenario And The History Of The UFO Val Germann (c)1997 THE LEAR SCENARIO -- AN ANALYSIS There is much evidence that the our "Intelligence" people got into the UFO business during World War II. The Los Angeles incident of 1942 resulted in civilian deaths and many, many very strange reports. [69] Then, by 1943, both the RAF and the Army Air Corps were investigating `Foo Fighters' which were causing much consternation in Europe. [70] They were thought to be German secret weapons and were interfering with radio, radar and engine operation. All pilots were briefed on these strange flying objects and told to be careful. But no planes were lost, at least officially, to the "Foo Fighters" and the war continued as if they did not exist. Missions continued to be flown and the Kraut Fireballs flew, too. But "Foo Fighters" were an "Eyes Only" subject in Europe in the waning days of World War II. They later showed up in the Pacific and paced B-29s on their way to bomb Japan. The Atomic Bombings of 1945 ended World War II. But for the UFO things were just getting underway. (It may be worth noting that the head of 8th Air Force intelligence at the time of the "Foo Fighters" (Gen. Samford) was to be the head of all Air Force intelligence in 1952, and was a prominent spokesman at the famous 1952 press conference that followed the Washington, D.C., UFO flap.) In 1946 there was a "Ghost Rocket" scare, perhaps centered in Scandinavia but soon spreading to most of northern Europe and then, strangely, to the southernmost part of the continent. Two Air Corps generals, James Doolittle (later to be a power in the "40 Committee" under Eisenhower) [71] and David Sarnoff, went to Sweden to investigate. In Greece, Dr. Paul Santorini began to investigate these objects but was soon stopped. In the 1960s he would state for the record that the objects were NOT rockets and that "a world blanket of secrecy" had been placed on the them at the beginning of 1947. [72] In any event, for several months strange flying objects raced through the sky, some of them seeming to come out of Russia. Several of them were reliably reported to have crashed. In the end, the "Ghost Rockets" were passed off as mirages or, perhaps, a couple of real Soviet rockets out of control. The flap died. But the "Ghost Rockets" were real. Thousands saw them. It could be that during this period a real effort was begun to understand the whole gamut of these bizarre flying objects, strange things that had the capability of causing real trouble in the new Atomic Age of Cold War with Russia. Thus I think that it was sometime in late 1946 or early 1947 that people high up in the science/intelligence nexus, perhaps folks like Vannevar Bush and Hoyt Vandenberg, began a program to do just that. I think that even then they could have had physical evidence their possession. They could have formed, with the President knowing very little, a high-level group (called MAJESTIC-12?) to oversee all operations and research concerning the flying discs. It would have been, by default, very similar in its rules and structure to the group which had controlled the Manhattan Project. That would have been only natural. In late June 1947, "MAJESTIC-12" could well have picked the Kenneth Arnold incident to be the trigger of a flap that would put the UFO on the map in the United States. His sighting hit the national wire so hard that in days he was getting letters from around the world and soon 90 per cent of all Americans knew of `flying saucers.' At one level it all seems too pat. After all, Arnold's sighting was rather mundane (compared to what was happening to military pilots) and involved a private pilot without any combat experience. Thus in some ways it fits, it was the perfect way to make the subject `real' without panicking the country -- have some bush pilot report it. And we now know that numerous "UFO sightings" were in the pipeline here in the USA well BEFORE Arnold's sighting, many of them military. As for Arnold, he was more than just a bush pilot. See his 1952 book (written with Ray Palmer of Shaver Mystery fame), THE COMING OF THE SAUCERS [73] for telling details. You have to understand that the national media is just about an arm of the government where security issues are concerned. If the folks in charge don't want something to resonate, it does not resonate. This was especially true in 1947, with the war just over. No one in the press would have stood against the military or the intelligence community on something like this. No, the folks at the top wanted the story out! They must have had a reason. What better way to collect information on these "flying saucers" than to have the public turn in sightings to the press! You need information on something new and threatening, something you have no control over. The "Foo Fighters" have come home to roost and are outrunning everything you've got! They seem to be almost everywhere at once! Were they are even falling out of the blue sky occasionally? It seems to be possible. But it didn't matter, our military and intelligence boys needed help. So, they let the cat a little bit out of the bag and got the citizenry all worked up about the subject. The public then made thousands of reports, of which about 20 per cent probably helped. They gave the size of the problem, which was not known. This could well have been what was happening in the 1947-49 time period, when the UFO was new. [74] Had project "MAJESTIC" and its allied agencies recovered two or more "flying disks?" It is possible. Did they really "crash?" Well, you can make a case that they did not. Had "bodies" also been recovered? Possibly, since there are eyewitness accounts to this effect that are difficult to simply rule out. Were there also living "crew" recovered, and perhaps retained in captivity? Well, there are those who say this happened and others who have seen things that strongly imply it. Thus it could be that the "crashes" and "recoveries" of the 1947-49 period were events that resulted in the retention of captives. . .which might have led to direct COMMUNICATION of some kind, at that time. Thus, at the core of this super-secret program a few could have been told, or inferred, something of THEIR program. The result of this could have been that right from the start, right from July, 1947, the American people were being misinformed and disinformed on this subject for a reason far beyond what is commonly thought of and spoken about by ufologists. At the very minimum, the possibility of such communication may have been an up-front consideration of our insiders, and much could have been deduced quickly from the "take" of a Roswell-type "crash" even without a direct exchange of information. But it is not much of stretch to imagine that some sort of primitive "communication" got under way, a communication that could well have been prompted and facilitated by "THEM," by the "captive crew" of a "flying disk" that had "crashed," at Roswell or Aztec or wherever. Would this have been a great secret? Yes. It seems to me that the psych-war strategy began early and our pros took a dual track on the problem nearly from the start, using the "good cop, bad cop" stratagem. This could be done since only THEY had some semblance of the truth. Fine scientists with ULTRA clearances were available (Menzel, Hynek, Oberth, Brown) to both debunk and support UFOs! Our intelligence operatives could have sought to control both sides of the issue and they probably succeeded, at least with the general public, who were getting open-source information from project SAUCER all the while the secret project SIGN did its work. With the insiders, multiple cover stories would have been employed, some of them naturally revolving around the "crashed" disks. The deepest secret could have been the fact that these things were not "crashes" at all, but bait, and then later gifts. This would have been a deep, deep secret, even with erstwhile "insiders," while the TRUE insiders worked with the "spacemen" (if that's what they were) and tried to figure out what they were doing here and what they really wanted. As part of the information control program several "private" UFO organizations (APRO, NICAP, etc.) would have eventually been set up or infiltrated, by or with former intelligence people and/or current government employees, who would have wound up either in direct charge, as high officials or on the board of directors. Together with those on the "inside," the people in the UFO organizations (and the press) would have managed the problem in the minds of the public. But no one could manage the UFOs, which continued to "fly" all through this period, threatening at any time to bring themselves to the attention of the population of the whole world, in such a way as to make their existence undeniably real. Was this "flying" a way to keep a kind of pressure on our "insiders," as communication perhaps got underway? And how much fear would there have been that these "others" might try, even by force, to get their vehicle(s) and crew(s) back! You know, taking possession of that material would not have been an unalloyed benefit! Many on the inside would have opposed it, if only on security grounds. Consider, what kind of security could be provided against SPACEMEN back in the 1940s, or today, for that matter? Some on the "inside" might have been alive to this problem, and the possibility that these "crashes" might not have been what they seemed. But we seem to have taken the bait! Control group MAJESTIC (or whatever it was called) would have been extremely worried in the beginning. No matter what, if anything, our new guests were saying (and their simple existence would have said a LOT!) it was a fact that no one knew, or could know, exactly what was happening. The United States had just fought and won the biggest war of all time, or so everyone thought. Was there another one just over the horizon? Was there now going to be a war with these, creatures? Who could know? In October 1955 General Douglas MacArthur was quoted in the The New York TIMES, "The nations of the world will have to unite - for the next war will be an interplanetary war. The nations of the Earth must someday make a common front against attack by people from other planets." At the core of the project the deepest secrecy would have been put on this whole subject and only those with an ironclad "need to know" knew anything. The only information that probably would have surfaced would have been in the form of "strategic leaks" that existed as a contingency plan. If an actual invasion was on the way MAJESTIC (or whatever) wanted the public to know something in advance. We might have to fight a brand new war and a public prostrate in total panic was no good for that. Thus, there were leaks, several of them, and a few of them got into the press and onto the radio. Eventually books would be published. Lear's sources say that from the "crashes" of flying discs it was learned that there were at least two groups of these "beings" operating in the USA. But no one knew for sure what they were doing. Their vehicles flew with impunity over Los Alamos, Fort Monmouth and Oak Ridge, frightening many on the inside and making "communication" an urgent requirement. Why, why were they doing all of this? What could they want? When do you think the first reports of civilian "contact" with the "others" arrived? Perhaps in the late 1940s? This would not have been welcome, not at all. If anyone was going to be the moderator between the American people and these spacemen, it was going to be our elites: military, economic and social. "The man in the street" was not going to know anything, at least from our own people of their own free will. But, you know, these "others" could say and do anything, at any time, and could blow the entire operation in an hour. This was simply unacceptable. Many reports of "contact" could have been turned up during the late 1940s and the stories probably would have made little sense. The whole thing, taken together, was not dissimilar to one of our high-powered "disinformation campaigns," the kind that our own counterintelligence pros might themselves run. Now, that was not a comforting thought. How would such a campaign, perhaps being run from off the Earth, be defeated? Imagine the pressure on those who might have been "communicating" with these "others," with their superiors demanding results, and quickly! The plain fact would have been that MAJESTIC, if it existed, was ultimately in about the same shape as the public was relative to the UFO--they really knew about what the "others" themselves chose to reveal through their actions on the Earth. The possessors of the Atomic Bomb, the masters of the planet, would thus have been helpless before these `flying discs' and `little men' who looked like they might be Japs from hell. That situation was never going to see the light of day, though the counterintelligence disinformation leaks would have continued. It was just about this time, early in 1949, that James Forrestal jumped (or was pushed) from the 16th floor of the Bethesda Naval Hospital. It is worth noting that he was having extreme psychological problems at this time and believed that "foreign- looking men" were following him. [75] Could HE have been a "contactee?" We'll be coming back to this in part 4d. Then would have arrived the Russian A-bomb, which no one on our side of the ocean thought they would have for a decade. Were these "others" cooperating with the Russians? Had they given them the bomb? Jesus Christ! Were they now going to foment a war between us and the Russians? I think it is possible that it was at this time, sometime in late 1949, that some sort of stepped-up "interaction" may have been attained with these "aliens." This event was followed by the "first crackdown," during which all of the old team at Wright Field (save Hynek) was fired or transferred. Was the Russian Bomb the catalyst for the first steps toward a "deal?" Was a sort of blackmail involved? I think it's possible. And was it possible that a terrific division broke out among those on the true "inside?" That's possible, too. This would have been a very frightening business and many would have doubted the wisdom of treating with these "people." But what choices existed? You see, it was at this time that the first large orbiting objects (spoken of so dramatically by Keyhoe) may have taken up their positions around the Earth. [76] There is much evidence for something like this actually happening, some of it in the mainstream press of the time. Was force threatened? It could have been. The pressure on insiders at this time was immense, as is indicated in Ruppelt's book. [77] You know, zipping 900-foot-wide flying wings over secret nuclear facilities would be a way to get people's attention -- quickly, wouldn't it? And the "threat" inherent there would be right up front, would it not have been, accompanied by one from the USSR? In any event, if the above is correct then things had begun moving onto a frightening new plane. And the pressure was kept on our insiders, enormous pressure. The summer of 1951 saw the Lubbock Light flap which was the tip of an huge sighting iceberg that saw massive vehicles operate with disdain over the most secret bases we had. Were "negotiations" of a type ongoing at this time? It is possible. Or perhaps a communication method was in the works and "THEY" wanted to be sure our attention remained fixed on the true goal. Creating an interface between two totally different life forms, especially if the "grays" were an intermediary with the REAL alien group, could have taken a while. And the program could have blown up at any time, as it almost did in 1952. Was the Washington, D.C., sighting wave the event that finally broke down all resistance within the bureaucracy? It could have been. In the spring of 1952 Ruppelt was told, by a well-known scientist, that there would soon be a huge UFO flap over New York City or Washington, D.C. [78] Now, how could he have known this? Think about it. He must have been privy to something, something big, perhaps information about this communication effort, and the fact that some on the inside were resisting this new relationship with others. It is possible. But the D.C. sighting wave frightened everyone to death. The REAL downside possibilities were more than human flesh could bear. So, late in 1952 the decision may have been taken to "kill off" the UFO with the public and, maybe, knuckle under to "THEM." Soon The Robertson Committee had started a savage counter-attack against the UFO. Under the umbrella of what might have been called PROJECT AQUARIUS the "national security apparatus" took over completely, even throwing out the regular military and gutting PROJECT SIGN/GRUDGE, the Air Force's investigative arm. In 1953, an anti-UFO campaign was begun across the entire spectrum of educated opinion in the United States. The campaign hit the media hard and newsmen like Frank Edwards got fired. [79] It shut off Keyhoe and his official contacts and put the kibosh on the many airline pilots. The UFO began to die starting in 1953 and by 1960 it was near death. By 1964 and Zamorra [80] the whole subject was about as dead as a hammer. But Lear indicates that all through the 1950s there was feverish activity in deepest secrecy and in 1959 AQUARIUS (or whatever) began receiving a great deal of information from the aliens using a code. It was still hard going but now we were talking to these "others" in a new way! Who needed civilian information now! Even so, AQUARIUS kept on supporting what was left of the private UFO groups and kept on collecting reports, just as before. No intelligence operative ever throws away a resource since that resource might come in handy later. For the moment, though, AQUARIUS had better information, perhaps from the "horse's mouth," so to speak! Remember, over the 1953-59 period those on the inside had made the "UFO" totally taboo with the scientific community, except for the inside people like Menzel and Hynek. This was fairly easy since the Pentagon even then signed about half of the R & D checks in this economy. The last thing our counterintelligence pros needed was an independent investigation by civilian scientists! That could have blown up the whole thing! [81] By far the best procedure would have been to keep driving the UFO underground and then use the private organizations to keep tabs on the outside world. There would have been NO reason for any outsider to have known anything -- yet. You see, AQUARIUS could have still had great fears. They might still have feared the aliens might be talking with the Russians! Give Moscow the flying saucers and World War III was over without a shot! Early in 1955 there was a brief flap involving a U.S. Senator who saw two "flying disks" take off from a Soviet base. [82] Were the Russians doing the same things we were? It could have been true. A Russian breakthrough in this area had to be avoided! The only thing worse than "aliens" was the Red Menace, another reason for our side to talk to these "aliens." [83] Was there a chance for an alliance, an alliance with a power beyond history, a power that only the gods used to dream of possessing? If so, our elites were not going to throw that chance away, not for a minute. After all, these "others" couldn't mean to simply "take over the Earth." What was stopping them from doing it right off the bat without telling anyone anything? Their technology was overwhelmingly superior, or seemed so. Why didn't they strike? Why were they playing this game? There was something here, an angle. What was it? Well, under the Lear Scenario the 1959 communication break- through eventually meant that the "visitors" at some point started to talk in plain language, so to speak, and we began to talk back! [84] We found that they had `needs.' Well, we said, we have needs, too! We found out that there were several groups of "alien" on the Earth and that they were in some kind of loose alliance. We found out that there existed rules and regulations among these groups and that one of them needed some assistance. >From 50 or 100 light years away they couldn't bring everything they needed to operate here--or so they said. At last, here was the angle, Lear's sources said, at last here was something human beings could understand! These "others" couldn't (or wouldn't) just destroy us. There were rules; and some of THEM needed US! In addition, some of the true "them" would not show themselves on the surface of the Earth and so genetically engineered intermediaries, the "Grays," were used, and these creatures were based (mostly) on human fetuses! [85] Not a problem, not for our economic, social and military betters. It was especially not a problem after these "Grays" offered a "deal" that could not be refused. The Grays promised to share the secrets of the saucers with the elite of the United States in return for what can only be called "citizens rendered!" That is, in exchange for permission to experiment upon a certain number of U.S. citizens, and facilities in which to do it, the "Grays" promised to share the secrets of the saucers, and probably much else. Now there was a deal worth making, one our "betters" could hardly refuse, no matter that its explosive nature made absolute secrecy a matter of ultra-importance. By this time so much had been hidden, so much suffered by those "in on" the truth, that turning back could have been out of the question. As for our very, very top people, the super-wealthy denizens of the Brook Club in New York City, would they agree to make such a deal? To ask such a question is to answer it! Of course they would, or rather, most of them would, and in a heartbeat. And hardly anyone outside a very, very small circle would ever know. Everyone else would be told one of a variety of cover stories, ranging from secret nuclear/medical research all the way up to crashed flying saucers. Every great truth, as Churchill said, needs a bodyguard of lies, the biggest and burliest of which would have been the whopper THEY had told to our insiders. "Oh, we won't actually hurt that many people," THEY probably said. "We need to do this to save our people and our civilization," they might have stated, as was proposed under the Keyhoe scenario. But no matter, they grisly truth was that they needed: human flesh. . .and the facilities to reproduce it. Lear says that it took until the mid-1960s to consummate this arrangement and that face-to-face meetings, on the surface of the Earth, took place for the first time in 1964. [86] But I doubt things were going smoothly, an impression gathered from what happened in the years following 1964. Indeed, the 1965-73 period could have been at time when tremendous pressure could have again been placed by these "others" on our decision makers. The extremely frightening events of 1965-66 caused such a furor that the Secretary Of Defense had to make a statement and in desperation Allen Hynek blurted out "swamp gas," which ignited an explosion among the press and public. [87] The heat was really on and the Condon hoax had to be created and promulgated to turn it down. Against this background, in deepest secrecy, was a real deal hammered out, beginning in 1965? Well, if so then our people again had great need for information from the general public. After all, could they trust these new "allies?" Would these "beings" own up to their end of the bargain? Who knew? Perhaps our boys were warned by "others" that the group they were dealing with was none too trustworthy. Whatever, AQUARIUS and its operatives took steps. They could have lured in a real journalist and he wrote a fine book about a couple who had been abducted by this disgusting group. The book was called INTERRUPTED JOURNEY. It just so happens that this couple's best friend was an Air Force intelligence officer. Just a coincidence, you understand. This officer just happened to know Barney and Betty Hill and just happened to help them in their time of need, helped them make their first public appearance in 1965. [88] Well, anything's possible but this is most suspicious. Military personnel and strange "engineers" from mystery defense firms are crawling all over this story. Fuller suppressed the truly strange aspects of the event, setting things back by years. But the main impact had been achieved and the "UFO abduction" began its public career, there to generate a new class of report to the still extant "civilian" UFO organizations, who would no doubt report up the chain what they were learning. But the general public would not know of the bizarre "sexual" aspects of the abduction process for many years. [89] Was it more middle-class squeamishness at work, or was it something else? No matter. In my view it is possible that Barney and Betty Hill could have been fingered for these "aliens" and that the Hill incident was NOT any sort of "normal abduction." I think that one of the first lists could have had Barney and Betty Hill's names on it. Think about it. The true insiders (or whomever) would have needed feedback, would have needed some idea of what the Grays were going to do to these people, people OUR SIDE was letting "them" pick up. The Grays said not many would be harmed (but that some definitely WOULD BE) and most released unaffected. But was that going to happen? Was AQUARIUS going to take the THEIR word on that? No, I don't think so. Would you? If they were going to take U.S. citizens, against those peoples' will, and work on them, as Lear's sources said, in government- provided facilities, well, our people were going to have to have SOME kind of check on that, weren't they? I think so. Fuller's book was pretty tame and most of the sexual elements were suppressed. The purpose, as stated earlier, was to get "UFO abductions" on the table and thus collect some more reports from the public. The public was, after all, the target of a new and dangerous program. Was this program going to work? Time would tell. In the meantime people like Keyhoe and Hynek would have the citizenry reporting to them what was happening in the field. Lear says that from the late-1960s to the mid-1970s we cooperated with the Grays in building secret underground bases both to share technology and to facilitate their "work." We tried to fly their technology but were not too successful. The aliens would give tantalizing rides in the vehicles but when we tried to take over nothing worked. By the middle 1970s the aliens had large under- ground enclaves at their disposal, enclaves we had helped build. There are those who say that such things are impossible to hide. Maybe, but then maybe not. That is, there are large numbers of underground government facilities, some of them on islands off our coast. The Black Budget is in the $40 Billion per year range. What could be done with even a fraction of this kind of money? A great deal, I'm afraid. [90] Then, you may remember, in 1973, came a huge flap, one that by the fall had featured the famous Coyne helicopter incident and the Pascagoula (Mississippi) fishermen. [91] The Air Force, supposedly OUT of UFOs since the Condon Report, crawled all over this last event, dogging the two main witnesses for days. The 1973 flap blew the lid off the UFO situation again and it has never really been put back into place. What had happened? Well, could it have been that some friction had already developed between elements of "MAJESTIC-12," "AQUARIUS" and the "Grays"? What a horrifying situation this could have been for our people, though I can hardly feel sorry for them. Had it become obvious that the Grays' need for human beings (did we really know what they wanted them for?) had taken a sickening turn. What did this mean, some on the inside could have wondered? Had the door been opened to something worse than simple invasion? Was it possible, at this late date, to cancel the "deal?" Not hardly, and the blackmail cattle mutilations, likely executed by "THEM," to demonstrate (to those who knew) what could happen if the secrecy was TRULY blown (human beings could be found in the same condition as those cattle!), were ridiculed and hushed up even as they chilled the insiders to the bone. [92] What would happen if the public ever found out the truth! It could make the French Revolution look like a kindergarten picnic! (Later, for those of an optimistic turn, there would be the "crop circles" of England and around the world, indicative of a brave new world to come if these "others" could only have their way. And all the while the vast majority of us could only wonder what the devil was happening. Only the insiders would have a clue, and for many it could have been a terrifying one.) Now (1975), for the first time in a while, abject TERROR based on GUILT would have been right out front. AQUARIUS would have been in an impossible situation. The terror existed because there were no good answers. If the public woke up and heard that their government had sold them out. . .well, that was unacceptable. "But the aliens might be. . .God knows!" said some on the inside! This situation probably became intolerable and so steps were most likely taken. But they might have been just a little too late. It was in the aftermath of the Travis Walton affair (1975) that major leaks from what was to be known as MAJESTIC and AQUARIUS began to appear. [93] You see, by this time some of the original members of the program would have been getting old, near the end of the line, at the same time the stress on insiders would have been at a peak. Some perhaps could remain silent no longer and so they leaked, to Keyhoe, Fowler and Stringfield. If this is true that the other members of MAJESTIC had to make a decision. After all, they might have said, only one group of "them" was known to be dangerous, the one we are dealing with. There seemed to be some internal checks on their operations. It was necessary to ride this out and hope for the best. After all, we had been dealing with them for over a decade and we were still around. It couldn't be the end of the world--that should have already happened! And besides, what can we really do about the situation anyway? Nothing. And those cattle deaths. . .wow! The time had come to put the public to sleep in a big way and hopefully for good. The time had come for not one but two movies--CLOSE ENCOUNTERS and ET. Both were blockbusters. And the movie industry had been making propaganda films for the government (when it was necessary), beginning in World War I. [94] Well, it was certainly necessary for some industrial- strength propaganda to be generated then! And it WAS generated. When the two wonderful space-creature movies had had their run, the UFOs were friendly again and all was well with the sky, at least with the general public -- for a while. But Lear's sources say it was becoming obvious through this same period that the disgusting ones were doing thousands of "operations" involving people not on the lists provided. Lear's sources said that "they" were picking up runaway children and also taking our own people right off secret bases and programming them for things no human could understand. It was also discovered, these sources said, that the Grays were recruiting humans to work with them and no one knew where these `turned' humans might be or what they might be trained to do. But such things could be imagined! This was THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE scenario with bells on! [95] Thus, as the 1980s got rolling it could slowly but surely have come to pass that AQUARIUS lost whatever control it may have had over some of its people. The operation began to fountain leaks, everything from 1940s incidents all the way up to material from last month. The fright level had seemed to go right through the roof. Perhaps it was Budd Hopkins' book MISSING TIME [96] that began the last phase of the cascade of leaks. It could very well be that when that book came out many on the "inside," who had been given the bogus cover stories, felt the scales fall from their eyes. "So that's what's really going on!" they might have said. "No way I'm protecting that!" Putting two and two together, perhaps some felt that this was going to be the end of humanity, that whatever the Grays were doing would actually genetically CHANGE us into something else, some strange hybrid. Then, of course, there was this strange "YUPPIE FLU" that seemed to have started in the early 1980s, in Utah, with cattle. There could well have been another terrific division among the leadership with some fearing it was already too late. Lear says that "we" tried to take a secret base away from THEM and lost a bunch of people doing it. At that point all cooperation is said to have ended, at least with one group of "them," and what was next no one could presume to know! It was at this time that Albuquerque resident Paul Bennewitz began his research into strange signals emanating from Kirtland Air Force Base and the Manzano Nuclear Storage area, research that was soon to result in his targeting by what can only be called a vicious counterintelligence program. [97] And it was at this time that Linda Howe began to receive strange visits from military sources, sources that promised fantastic information, that could lead to the production of a shocking film. [98] Finally, it was at this time that Whitley Strieber also received strange visits from people who themselves had been visited by government agents, who also promised blockbuster information on UFOs and "aliens" living in government captivity. [99] But in the last two cases above the promised film was never delivered and so the projects came to naught, at least for the "civilians." So, are MAJESTIC and AQUARIUS now in full damage control and are there leaks and counterleaks flying everywhere? It could well be and none of us out here can with certainty tell a "real leak" from a "counterleak." All we can go on is the weight of evidence from as many sources as possible, which is what I have tried to do in these pages, from my point of view and my reading. Lear's sources said that by 1983 or so a new weapon was being sought, under the SDI umbrella, to knock out the underground bases that "THEY" controlled. In addition, can we assume that negotiations with other groups, in hopes of other alliances, had also been initiated? It seems possible to this writer. In the mean time, a little of the information, as bad as it is, may have been unofficially leaked, as a contingency plan. Under this rubric there was no intention of any of this ever being believed by the public, but if something outrageous were to happened MAJESTIC would not want to be the bad guy all the way around. No. They would want to be able to claim that they were "preparing" the public for release of the whole thing. They would want to claim this if something awful were to happen. So, some independent UFO researchers have perhaps received some relevant and even factual information from disaffected insiders, as Lear may have. Other leakers would be working, directly and with foreknowledge, or as unwittingly tools, for MAJESTIC. Barring their simple admission of such (as per Moore) we have no way to know for sure who these people might actually be, if they exist at all. [100] But if some of the leaks are legitimate the hope would be that nothing would happen but if something had taken place no one would have wanted the poor public actually dying from fright. It would have been hoped that if the worst were to have come our public would have said what they were supposed to say, namely, "We knew this all along! It was on TV! Now, what are we going to do about it!?" And here we have a very good question. That is, supposing the Lear Scenario to be true, what in heaven's name COULD we, or any other human being, actually DO about it? SUMMING UP At the end of the day the combination of the Lear and Keyhoe scenarios make a powerful theoretical team. That is, most aspects of the "UFO Phenomenon" can be dealt with under the rubric of 1) An "alien" long-term analysis of the Earth followed by 2) The initiation of an campaign whose goal is that THEY actually live here, with us, at some time in the future, if they aren't (in quantity) already living here, with us, right now! Such a program probably began a many years ago and would have built momentum over time. Such a program would have at some point required "bases" of some sort to be established near or on the Earth, followed by "contact" with humanity culminating in the securing of large resources from US for THEIR work. This last aspect would involve elements of our military, economic and social elite who would, if history is any guide, not be overly willing to share their knowledge with the rank and file of their underlings, that is, the mass of the human race -- US. In such a situation our fate could literally be in their hands and a mistake by our elites in this affair could literally doom all of us to what might be a fate worse than death. It is this last possibility that might explain the leaking of the material that became The Lear Letters. Even though the majority of the information might be from one of the shell cover stories or even a deliberate lie, the primary deduction remains supported by significant evidence from many sources and directions. Are we human beings overmatched in an interplanetary horror story, as were the poor peasants of Vietnam who were gassed, bombed and incinerated with napalm through no fault of their own and for reasons far remote from their lives? Surely not, surely. One thing IS for sure though: NO ONE, no human at least, has any iron-clad information as to what these others TRULY intend, and the sooner we admit that the better. If any part of the Lear Scenario is true, then the sooner the whole of humanity knows about this the better. But we must have no illusions that this would ever be allowed to happen. Once again it must be pointed out that our history shows that we peasants won't find out what's going on until it's far too late for any of US to do anything. The twelve-step people say to their patients, "You're only as sick as your secrets." By that standard our country is very sick indeed, perhaps even terminally ill. Perhaps it is already too late for us vis-a-vis these "others." Perhaps it was ALWAYS too late, as it was for our Native Indian tribes in the last century, who were either exterminated or pushed off onto reservations, where they got cheap whiskey and warm blankets laced with small pox. Is it, as Gordon Lightfoot said, "Too late for prayin'?" *** [End -- Part 4c-2 of Part Four]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 UFOSearch #9: part 4c-3 /4 The Lear Scenario: Notes From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:29:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:28:34 -0400 Subject: UFOSearch #9: part 4c-3 /4 The Lear Scenario: Notes This is part 4c-3 of the fourth part of the ninth essay by UFOSearch. The titles and parts of the complete essay are: UFOSearch #9: Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Part One - Abstract and Introduction Part Two - Counterintelligence And UFO Analysis Part Three - The Counterintelligence Use Of Research And Analysis In Small-Scale UFO Investigations Part Four 4a - Evaluating UFO Scenarios Using Counterintelligence 4b - UFO Scenario Analysis: THE KEYHOE SCENARIO 4c - The Lear Scenario And UFO History 4c-1 The Lear Scenario: Introduction and Background 4c-2 The Lear Scenario: Analysis 4c-3 The Lear Scenario: Notes To Section 4c 4d - The Streiber Scenario and The Future of The UFO NOTE: These essays are posted with the permission of the author, Val Germann. If you would like to correspond with him I have arranged a temporary internet email address that will forward the correspondence to him. This is not a permanent email address. The address is: ufosearch@pipeline.com Commentary: For serious readers, any "non-fiction" work that does not include a good reference section and an extensive selection of endnotes is very close to a waste of time. On the other hand, there are those who never take the time to read those notes and references, no matter how informative they may be. Don't make that mistake with this article. Read the numbered paragraphs in the Notes, part 4c-3. There is a reason the word "noteworthy" exists in our language. As for the Lear Letters themselves, they are now nearly ten years old and yet there remain unasked questions about them. This is not surprising since most in ufology wish that they had never appeared. But the Lear Letters can be combined with other information to yield a coherent interpretation of the last half-century, the five decades since Kenneth Arnold saw the objects whose movements reminded him of a rocks skipping across water. The "Fearless Ufologist" (TM) leads us forward... Gary Alevy (c) 1997 -------------------------------------------------------------- UFOSearch Columbia, Missouri Science, Counterintelligence And UFOs Part 4c-3: The Lear Scenario And The History Of The UFO Val Germann (c)1997 Notes To Section 4c -- THE LEAR SCENARIO [55] ASTRONOMY magazine has recently published two attacks on the UFO, one each in its July and September 1997 issues. On page 31 of the September issue begins a five-page article by Philip Klass which, though lacking his normal insulting tone, wastes few opportunities to disparage the idea that there is anything of importance to UFO reports. Klass, who has never done very much in the way of actual "investigation," relies extensively in this article on an out-of-print book by a former Center For UFO Studies staffer named Allen Hendry. Needless to say, ASTRONOMY gives no one on the ufological side of the fence a chance to respond and so the use of a CUFOS book to debunk UFOs goes totally without challenge. [56] Part One of this writer's A CAPSULE CHRONOLOGY OF THE UFO will be available early in 1998. It will cover the time period from 1750 to 1957 and will be annotated and footnoted. Part Two, covering the years 1958-1990, will be ready by June of 1998. [57] See UNDER THE CLOUD, Richard L. Miller, 1986, The Free Press (MacMillan, Inc.), for detailed information on how the continental United States was blasted for years by very, very dangerous fallout. See especially pages 357-367. See also John Fuller's THE DAY THEY BOMBED UTAH, 1984, New American Library, for the Atomic Energy Commission's shocking and shameful actions towards United States citizens, some of whom would soon be dead or dying of radiation-induced disease. 58] For information on these stories, see the St. Louis POST-DISPATCH, April 29, 1993, front page. The news about the bacterial spraying of St. Louis broke at this time, leading to a very long article outlining other government outrages. [59] THY WILL BE DONE, previously cited, is chock full of horrifying examples of straight annihilation of indigenous people conducted strictly to gain access to their lands and the minerals those lands concealed. See pp. 775-779, "Genocide In Paraguay" and pp. 807-810, for stunning documentation of mass death in the name of "economic development." Our job in the 9th Division was to "kill gooks" in Long An Province, Republic Of Vietnam. And we killed them on a large scale, counting them all, the numbers being reported up the chain as our "body count." Were all of the dead enemy soldiers? Most of us didn't know for sure and cared even less. Tiny oriental women were planting "toe-popper" mines right on our company streets so who worried about the fine details of "military" versus "civilian" casualties. [60] THE LEAR LETTERS, 1987 & 1988; the actual provenance of the core material is unknown. My copy came to me from a friend who then worked for Digital Equipment Corporation. He took it down through his company computer bulletin board system! [61] It is a general rule in academia (and elsewhere) that the moment the name "Rockefeller" is brought into the discussion, the person first using the name is accused of promulgating a "con- spiracy theory." For an interesting discussion of this, see Frank Kofsky's book HARRY S. TRUMAN AND THE GREAT WAR SCARE OF 1948, (previously cited). I quote from page 302, "If, in fact, there is one thing that characterizes those at the top of the heap, it is their readiness to organize among themselves to secure their desires. No other group in society even comes close in this regard." Kofsky also says that those who bring the "conspiracy theory" charge do so because "they have been unable to find evidence to refute an interpretation which they detest." [62] "UFO COVER-UP, LIVE!" appeared in October of 1988 and featured Mike Farrell as host. The high-point for me was the testimony of the two women from the Cash-Landrum incident near Houston, Texas, in 1980. But many other well-known and interesting personalities were to be seen in this two-hour program, shown only on cable in our local market. [63] In the spring of 1989 I was talking with a very interesting older gentleman, a World War II veteran (whose unit had helped the U.S. Army supply materiel to Ho Chi Minh back when Ho was fighting the Japanese!) who then belonged to a local chapter of what the Columbia DAILY TRIBUNE called "Druids." Every fall for several years previously this group had conducted a ceremony (one involving the "sacrifice" of a small animal) on my contact's land in northern Boone County. During this ceremony in 1988, two helicopters, loaded with police, descended upon them. My contact was arrested and grilled for several hours about the local animal deaths, of which he knew nothing. Life in a university town can be quite interesting, can it not? [64] See Chapter 47 of THE DECISION TO USE THE ATOMIC BOMB, previously cited, pp. 591-608 for interesting details about how open source information had to be limited so that foreign "research and analysis" operations would have trouble finding out what was actually taking place. But for those who were looking, the fact that the physics journals STOPPED publishing articles about nuclear matters spoke volumes. [65] That this sort of thing happens today is strongly indicated by this sentence from the SUMMARY OF FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS of Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan's (D-NY) COMMISSION ON PROTECTING AND REDUCING GOVERNMENT SECRECY, "It is now almost routine for American officials of unquestioned loyalty to reveal classified information as part of ongoing policy disputes, with one camp leaking information in support of a particular view, or to the detriment of another, or in support of settled administration policy." [66] See ALIENS FROM SPACE, Donald Keyhoe, 1973, Ballantine, page 31, for a short discussion of William Lear's comments on UFOs and gravity research, which Keyhoe says Lear Instruments was conducting in the early 1960s. [67] See pp. 257-260 of ABOVE TOP SECRET, previously cited, for information on the MJ-12 documents, which appeared for the first time in this book, reproduced on pp. 545-551. [68] James W. Moseley was born August 4, 1931, in New York City, his father a former British Army officer, and matriculated for two years at Princeton before "pursuing a life of adventure and travel." See Sach's UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA, previously cited, page 205, where Sachs says that Moseley "describes his career history as sketchy." Moseley has been a UFO gadfly since the 1950s and was a regular on the famous Long John Nebel program in New York 35 years ago. One might note that his career in many ways matches up with that of an all-purpose OSS/CIA-type agent. The Princeton connection is interesting, as is his British heritage. [69] See page 446, ABOVE TOP SECRET, for a reproduction of the report General Marshal made to FDR after this affair, which saw over 1,400 anti-aircraft rounds fired at several targets, some of which were moving "very slowly." [70] ABOVE TOP SECRET, previously cited, pp. 27 & 28. [71] General Doolittle, who was associated with Shell Oil at this time, was influential in U.S. intelligence for many years and was a member of the so-called "40 committee" during much of Eisenhower's second term. See pp. 130-133 in MAYDAY, THE U-2 AFFAIR, Michael Beschloss, Harper & Row, 1986. [72] Once again, see ABOVE TOP SECRET, page 23. [73] See THE COMING OF THE SAUCERS, Kenneth Arnold and Raymond Palmer, Amherst Press, Amherst, Wisconsin, 1952. This book is back in print though Legend Press. $18.95 U.S. plus $5.00 shipping per copy. Each copy includes a tape of Kenneth Arnold's authentic radio news broadcast and lets you hear, in his own words, the story of his encounter with the Flying Saucers. Legend Press 285,295 Midpark Way S.E. Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2X 2A8. [74] Why use the public? Because they HAD been doing so! The Air Corps had been using private citizens in its Ground Observer Corps (GOC) and Air Force continued using this instrument right up until the end of the 1950s, or until the nation had a complete radar warning network. In 1954 and 1955, Leonard Stringfield would cooperate with the Air Force and the GOC in vectoring jet fighters onto UFOs in the Cincinnati area. See SAUCER POST 3-0 BLUE, Leonard Stringfield, self-published, 1955. Ruppelt, in his REPORT, says on page 129 that his project Bluebook for a while had the cooperation of the Air Defense Command and the Ground Observer Corps. [75] See SECRET SERVICE CHIEF, 1963, Lawrence Baughman, Bantam Books, pp. 96-97, for the strange story of the "foreign looking men" who Forrestal said were following him. Baughman states that the Secretary was having "terrifying delusions" and that was why he was hospitalized. One must not rule out the possibility that Forrestal was either tremendously upset by what he knew about "UFOs," or was in fact a contactee himself. [76] See page 82 of FLYING SAUCERS HERE AND NOW, Frank Edwards, 1967, for information on large orbiting objects first detected in the early 1950s. Ruppelt, in his REPORT, previously cited, states on page 127 that in 1952 "very fast and very high" objects were picked up on the latest radar. [77] The events of mid-1951, written of by Ruppelt in his REPORT, previously cited, led to very positive steps being taken by the uniformed military vis-a-vis the UFO. By early in 1952 the Air Defense Command had become involved and Air Force letter 200-5 was promulgated, saying that UFOs were not jokes after all and should be reported up the chain. In May, 1952 a spectacular UFO was seen by a CIA executive, and other ranking government officials, from the CIA man's backyard near Washington, D.C., and then in June the total number of reports skyrocketed. By mid-July the enormous number of reports, many of them from sensitive areas such as Los Alamos and Oak Ridge, were causing great concern across the board and on pages 152 and 153 Ruppelt writes of how many in government wanted a "maximum effort" by the Air Force to determine exactly what the UFOs were and what they were doing. [78] See page 157 of Ruppelt's REPORT for this account, in which the scientist in questions says, while pounding the desk with his fist, "In a few days you're going to have the granddaddy of all UFO sightings at New York or Washington, probably Washington." [79] Frank Edwards, who had been Mutual Radio Network's best- known personality since 1942, tells the story of how he lost that position in his FLYING SAUCERS, SERIOUS BUSINESS, 1966, page 122. [80] The Zamorra case, in which a local policeman saw a strange vehicle (and its "child-sized" crew) at close range, garnered immense publicity and put the UFO back on the national map just when it appeared it was dead forever. See Sachs' UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA for more information on this incident, which took place near Socorro, New Mexico. In 1990, I was in the area and found that the principal witness still lived in town. Upon calling the house I was told by his daughter, who was very polite and even considerate, that Mr. Zamorra had said all he had to say about the affair and would prefer not to be bothered. I complied. [81] Ruppelt in his REPORT, previously cited, on pp. 56-57, writes of how the Air Force killed a very promising program set to go into effect at a "highly secret area that can't be named." [82] See AMERICAN ESPIONAGE AND THE SOVIET TARGET, Jeffrey Richelson, William Morrow, 1987, pp. 52-53 for this strange story. It seems that Senator Richard Russell (D-GA), head of the Armed Services Committee, was traveling in the USSR and from a train saw two "flying saucers" rise from a military installation and fly away. The Senator and his military attache made their report to the Air Attache at Prague, who reported, "The significance of this report re the USAF project "Unidentified Flying Objects" is remarkable and lends credence to many "saucer" reports." [83] In 1955 former General MacArthur, in a commencement address, stated that "the nations of the Earth many someday have to make a common front against attack from another planetary galaxy (sic)." Later, in 1962, he was to make a similar comment. See ABOVE TOP SECRET, page 267. The Cold War mentality permeated all military authorities in the 1950s and 1960s and the situation vis-a-vis UFOs could hardly have remained unaffected. [84] Frank Drake is a very interesting scientist, best known for the Green Bank Formula or "Drake Equation" which yields an estimate for the number of intelligent civilizations in the Universe. However, Drake has little use for evidence that representatives of these other civilizations might be HERE, on EARTH, with US -- NOW. No, Dr. Drake is of the opinion that a multi-million-dollar apparatus is necessary to ferret out the evidence for other intelligent life, which would make him look sort of UNintelligent if the "flying saucers" are what they very well could be. So, one might say that he is hardly an unbiased source in the UFO arena. For more on Dr. Drake see pp. 85-86 of Sachs' UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA, previously cited. Drake, who has quite a few intelligence connections, would himself be an excellent subject for an investigative article. [85] This interesting detail is set out in Whitley Strieber's MAJESTIC, his 1989 novel which will figure greatly in Part 4d of this series. The idea that the "grays" might be part human has been there from at least 1981 and MISSING TIME. This could explain the early rumors of a 100-foot UFO being recovered with "human body parts" on board. Perhaps the "parts" were sperm and ova from abducted human beings. [86] See Robert Emenegger's UFO's, PAST, PRESENT & FUTURE, 1974, Ballantine Books, for the "Holloman Air Force Base scenario," in which a craft lands and gray-skinned beings "with large noses" are whisked away to be interviewed by government scientists and other experts. Emenegger states that he was shown film of two of these beings, one of which had survived a "crash" in 1949 and had remained alive until 1952. [87] This incident is well described in Frank Edwards' last book, published just after his death in 1967. FLYING SAUCERS, HERE AND NOW, is a detailed look at the 1965-66 period and the tremendous abuse Hynek and the Air Force took for the "Swamp Gas" explanation, given under duress at a press conference in Detroit. I was in high school then and I remember the media flap well. [88] See the UFOSearch paper INTELLIGENCE CONNECTIONS IN WELL- KNOWN UFO CASES, for information assembled from John Fuller's INTERRUPTED JOURNEY. The people around Barney and Betty Hill were most suspicious, as is the fact that Donald Keyhoe met with the Hills' two original interviewers within 48 hours of his receiving Betty's letter. And was it pure coincidence that the Air Force officer who set up their first public appearance was strongly interested in hypnosis? Yes, it could be coincidence. [89] The fact that sperm samples were almost certainly taken from Barney Hill was not even suggested, nor was the idea that an ovum might have been removed from Betty discussed openly. For instance, Sachs' UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA (pp. 216-218) makes no mention of either of these possibilities, stating only that Mrs. Hill might have been given a "pregnancy test," the implications of which were simply not explored. It would be two decades before the sexual and reproductive aspects of many abductions would be made known to the general public. Finally, consider the possible usefulness of an interracial couple as the first public victim of abduction. Who would want to pry into sexual matters with such a couple, considering the natural squeamishness of ufologists where even simple reproduction is concerned? [90] The Black Budget is huge and much of the money is spent overseas. See BLANK CHECK: THE PENTAGON'S BLACK BUDGET for more information, especially Chapter Four, "A Wing And A Prayer," about the stealth fighter and bomber. Huge programs were hidden from almost everyone and dangerous chemicals disposed of in large quantity, all without anyone important finding anything out until it was far too late to do much of -- anything. [91] The 1973 flap may have begun in southeast Missouri, around Piedmont, in March. Later in the year Dr. Harley Rutledge of Southeast Missouri State College would investigate, at one point seeing a huge object pass silently over his head near Clearwater Lake. See PROJECT IDENTIFICATION, Harley Rutledge, Prentice- Hall, 1981. The fall of 1973 saw UFOs return to the front pages of newspapers and get onto the CBS Evening News. And the first "cattle mutilation" wave took place in Colorado. [92] The "cattle mutilations" are horrific events that generate terror among local citizens and even law enforcement. Organs of communication and reproduction are removed or damaged in nearly every case and the animals are placed where they will be found. The owners of these animals are shocked and horrified and local police are nearly always called. These officers investigate and file reports, which go up the information chain through the FBI. I ask my readers to think about these things very carefully. See ALIEN LIAISON, Timothy Good, Random Century, Ltd., 1991, pp.25-26, for Hynek's investigation of "mutilations" as early as 1968. Chapter 3 of Good's book, entitled "Colorado Breakthrough, is a chilling account of the effects of such events on one family. [93] The Travis Walton affair generated tremendous publicity, in part because there were multiple witnesses whose stories stood up to serious investigation. The animal "mutilations" were still a hot topic at this time and the two stories could have merged in the minds of some on the inside, who could by now have been well frightened by the secrecy and what it could have been hiding. See Sachs' UFO ENCYCLOPEDIA, previously cited, pp. 291-293, for a summary of these events. [94] During both World Wars I and II, Hollywood, which is controlled from New York by the truly wealthy, made numerous propaganda films, and continued this activity right into the early Cold War years. It COULD be accidental that both CLOSE ENCOUNTERS and E.T. appeared just as a new round of shocking UFO-related leaks were surfacing, at the same time that many parts of the country were still reeling due to the mysterious animal deaths. It could be an accident. [95] Everyone interested in UFOs should read Richard Condon's 1959 blockbuster, THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, Random House. Many of the motifs current on today's abduction scene are foreshadowed in this book, including strange women "from the stars," odd cuts on the calf and hypnotically retrieved memories of importance. [96] MISSING TIME, Budd Hopkins, 1981, was the first important American "UFO book" in decades to have been written by someone with NO connection to the military, our various intelligence agencies or its operatives. Not since Frank Scully's 1950 BEHIND THE FLYING SAUCERS was a complete civilian making large waves in the field. But he would soon be followed by Whitley Strieber. [97] For the beginning of the Paul Bennewitz story see CLEAR INTENT, Lawrence Fawcett and Barry Greenwood, Prentice Hall Press, 1984, pp. 225-227. Here are reproduced documents detailing Benewitz's belief that UFO activity was ongoing at Kirtland Air Force Base, near Albuquerque, and that he, Bennewitz, had "made contact" with the occupants of the UFOs. Within a few years after these events Bennewitz would begin to have severe mental disturbances which were observed at close range by agent-in-place William Moore. See note [100]. [98] See ALIEN AGENDA, Jim Marrs, HarperCollins, 1997, pages 268-270 for Howe's account of these strange visits and meetings which seem a part of a new series of "official leaks." [99] See Whitley Strieber's TRANSFORMATION, Wilson & Neff, Inc., 1988, pp. 116-117, for information on how a "film maker" friend had been invited to a meeting with Air Force personnel in the early 1980s. This film maker was shown what can only have been the MJ-12 documents or a version of them. He was later told he would receive several thousand feet of film concerning UFOs and the "beings" who were flying them. But he never saw the films. [100] In 1989, William Moore, who had helped break the Roswell story in 1980, stood up in front of a group at the MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) national convention and stated that he had helped government agents disinform and misinform UFO researcher Paul Bennewitz (and others) with bogus information supplied to him by the Air Force Office Of Special Investigations. See Jim Marrs' ALIEN AGENDA, HarperCollins, Inc., 1997, pp. 110-112. *** [End -- Part 4c of Part Four]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:18:47 PDT Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:42:19 -0400 Subject: Re: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > From: RSchatte@aol.com > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:21:39 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > To: updates@globalserve.net > CSICOP Takes Stock of the Media > by D. Trull > Enigma Editor > <A HREF="aol://4344:926.en_fdbak.1368554.516214994">pscptrull@aol.com</A> > The Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal > (CSICOP), the most prominent organization involved in the debate over the > paranormal, has taken a stand against pseudoscience and excessive credulity > in the media. The skeptical group is resorting to that time-honored strategy > of business and politics: if you can't beat 'em, buy 'em. Or at least snap up > enough shares of stock to make yourself be heard. > CSICOP's Council for Media Integrity has announced a donor-funded campaign to > purchase common stock in the five major media conglomerates: General Electric > (NBC), Disney (ABC), Westinghouse (CBS), Fox NewsCorp and Time Warner. The > aim of the "Media Stock Fund" is for CSICOP to gain entry to board rooms and > challenge the media's paranormal proclivities as a shareholder. [snip] > CSICOP hopes its protests will become more effective once the group is an > investor in the businesses of its foes. But it will take a lot of supporter > donations to secure the necessary amounts of media conglomerate stocks, the > dividends from which will go entirely to the operating expenses of the > Council For Media Integrity. To learn more about CSICOP and the Media Stock > Fund, visit the CSICOP web site: <A HREF="http://www.csicop.org">http://www.cs > icop.org</A> Hi, everybody, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You can always count on CSICOP for your best laughs. I have just had the best one yet this month. Of course it's a little sad, too. These guys need a life, or at least a hobby. For all their huffing, puffing, and frantic bloviation, they have yet to provide an iota of empirical evidence for their beloved faithf that pro-paranormal or -anomaly opinions have any measurable negative effect on society. At the very worst, such ideas amount to nothing more dangerous than silly folk beliefs. Personally, I'd be much more concerned about the beliefs of haters and bigots and violent (or potentially violent) social groups. Thank God there are groups that try to address society's REAL ills. Anyway, besides providing laughs for less hysterical fellow citizens, CSICOP can always be counted on to provide the shamelessly grandstanding gesture. Paul Kurtz and his sidekooks are geniuses, if of nothing else, of the publicity stunt, and if this isn't one of those, my name is Philip J. (ufology is tantamount to Communism) Klass. Still chortling, Jerry Clark Search for other documents from or mentioning: clark | rschatte |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Strange lights From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 21:25:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:44:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange lights >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:39:43 -0600 (MDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: huffel@qi3.com (Ella Huff) >Subject: Re: Strange lights >>From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) >>Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:13:02 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Strange lights >>Hello list members, >>My question is a simple but dignified one. What are all these small >>white lights, that seem to be traveling effortlessly, that I see >>almost every night I stargaze? Could they be satelites? Balloons? Any >>suggestion are welcome. >> Clint Stone >>Ky/MUFON >I'm glad Clint asked this question. We've watched these fast moving >small lights nearly every night in the summer since I was small. They >seem to move way too fast for satellites. They're not passenger jets. [SNIP] >Before anyone writes these off as merely "satellites", please take this >into consideration: >In the last 4 years we have seen 3 of them make sharp right angle turns >in the direction they were heading. They were each on seperate >occasions. As most readers of the list are aware there was a sighting report from Fife in Scotland in Vol.2 No.34 of UFO Roundup which was sent to me by Dave Ledger. I have had further discussions with him and was told the following: ====== We are still experiencing many sightings again with multiple witnesses but the meteor type phenomena has subsided although we still observe the occasional one or two in a night. Our case is now being investigated by S.P.I representative Malcolm Robinson so hopefully we should have some more news in the future. We have tried and failed on numerous occasions to get video footage of these peculiar objects though we have not been short of good opportunities, it's just our equipment is too inferior. However we are quite confident that with the right equipment we could get these things on tape. There are two possibilities as to what these things could be...........1. High altitude passenger aircraft. 2. Satellites. Having done some research myself, I am of the firm conclusion that these things are neither. We are not saying that these things are alien space-ships or such like, BUT WE ARE SAYING THESE THINGS LOOK UN-NATURAL AND THEY MOVE IN A PECULIAR MANNER! We are enclosing a diary of events from this evening. Myself, Karen and her younger sister Marcelle, went out this evening and decided to record every little detail. FRIDAY AUGUST 29 1997. 11:07pm - object tracked heading south-northeast. 11:11pm - object tracked heading south-northeast. 11:13pm - Shooting star like object with long tail going into the approximate vicinity of the where the first object was last sighted. 11:27pm - object tracked heading from southwest to north then another following just behind. 11:35pm - Shooting star like object . 11:40pm - Large bright light due west. Flashed brightly twice only then headed towards northeast direction and object seemed to be coming and going to the eye almost periodically. Tracked object until we could see it no more. This is a typical night here at the moment. What do you make of it John? ====== At this point I asked Dave if the objects always travelled in a straight line or of they had any resemblance to Ella's sighting. His reply is below: ====== Thanks for your rapid reply, and in answer to your question. Yes........We have observed these objects: A) Stop dead in the sky after moving. B) Change direction suddenly. C) Just disappear from sight like Ella described in her letter, almost as if the light has gone out. D) Tracked an object one direction just to see it stop and come back in the opposite direction. We would also like to add that when these objects are tracked they do not seem to keep an exact straight line. They seem to almost waver very quickly from side to side giving off an almost oscillating effect. This is one of the main reasons why we do not think that these things are Planes or Satellites. Thank you for the forwarded message from Ella in Canada. We found their story so similar to our own and we also often spend our nights watching these things play in our airspace. It seems to have us all hooked. Is there any way that you could put us in touch with Ella so we could relate our sightings to each other? ====== If Ella wants to contact Dave and Karen Ledger she can write to him at DLedger001@aol.com John Hayes ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO @ http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Fife Sighting - Original report in full From: John Hayes <ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:09:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:46:35 -0400 Subject: Fife Sighting - Original report in full The message below is taken from my web site UFOINFO. It is the full and original sighting report from Dave Ledger <DLedger001@aol.com> which was featured in UFO Roundup Vol.2 No.34 under the heading "UFO SPOTTED OVER KIRKCALDY, SCOTLAND" From: DLedger001@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 21:43:32 -0400 (EDT) To: ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk cc: DLedger001@aol.com Subject: Recent ufo activity in Fife Scotland 9 witnessed the 45 min display. Sighting in Fife! August sat 16th 12:45-1:30 am GMT. On this morning of August 16 1997 at approximately 12:45 am, my girlfriend and I decided to go out to our back yard to look at a bright light, we have been seeing for the past three weeks. The light in question had been seen on numerous occasions before, and I had personally thought it to be a bright planet, as it always seems to be in the same vicinity. As we were looking at the bright light, I happened to glance to my left just above the roof of the flats, to see a small star like object clearly gliding across the night sky. It seemed to be moving quite fast as we compared it to the edge of our block of flats and also with the real stars in the sky. In the space of about 30 seconds we witnessed the object traverse from our left, above our heads, to the middle of the sky where the object suddenly came to a standstill. At that point my girlfriend ran to get some witnesses while I stayed to view the stationary object. Whilst my girlfriend was away I witnessed a shooting star-like discharge racing across the sky in the vicinity of the stationary object. Frightened that I would witness all this phenomena alone, I knocked on my neighbour's door and he and his son then came outside and started looking at the object I had been observing. By this time there seemed to be an awful lot of activity, and my girlfriend returned with another three witnesses, whom I can honestly say were a little more than sceptical, however, after witnessing what appeared to be multiple objects or one object moving extremely fast, the scepticism disappeared. By now there were seven people present and all witnessing the same phenomena, there appeared to be many shooting star like objects traversing in the direction of the moving ufo's, almost like they were being fired upon, this seemed to strike up a feeling of excitement and an intense disbelief amongst our group of spectators. Our emotions by this time ran so high we awoke two of our neighbours who suddenly appeared on their balcony enquiring as to what all the commotion was about. They soon saw what had us all riveted and perhaps a little frightened. The sky tonight, was very clear and the visibility was very good apart from a very thin broken cloud away to the south West of where we were looking. At times the star like objects seemed to be almost popping in and out from behind the thin cloud. But the objects were most clearly seen against the clear black starry sky. The ufo's viewed showed no signs of any exterior lights whatsoever, however during the sighting a plane had taken off from Edinburgh airport and could be seen above the River Forth with its red and green flashing lights clearly visible. The obvious difference in altitude between the plane and the ufo's was more than apparent, the ufo's seemed the size of a pearl compared to the aircraft's size which suggests perhaps the ufo's were either just outside or perhaps inside the Earth's atmosphere. This event lasted for approximately 45 minutes. There were nine witnesses who saw all we have stated, we do not have the means of finding out if anything was reported to or seen by the military or the Airforce, who have a base nearby, but we would love to hear from anyone who has or knows of anyone with information on this sighting. Any info on this subject is greatly appreciated. E-Mail me on (DLedger001@aol.com) UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS SIGHTED OVER KIRKCALDY, FIFE IN SCOTLAND! We recently submitted a brief report of a UFO sighting, but now we have had a chance to come to terms with what we saw that night, here is a more detailed account of events. Firstly we would like to admit first hand, that we are classed as working class people, and to certain individual opinions this may discredit our statements right away, but we hope there are people out there who will believe us, and understand we are perfectly intelligent and sane people. On the morning of Saturday 16th August at around 12:45am, myself and my partner decided to let the dogs out onto the back garden, and also to observe an object in the sky, that we have continuously encountered over the last three week period, my partner believes it to be a planet (perhaps Venus), and appears like a very large bright star, that seems to disappear before dawn. However on this particular night, we noticed that the sky was dense and extremely clear, with only thin hazy patches of cloud here and there. Just as my partner looked up at the sky to our left over our shoulders, we spotted what appeared to be just another star in the sky, until it began to move. We live in a three storey block of flats, and we could see this starlike object move away from the rooftops of the flats towards the south and most probably over the River Forth somewhere, it seemed to cut through the sky with great ease, almost like it was gliding, but was actually going exceptionally fast, it must have been to cover the ground it covered in such a short space of time, it travelled three quarters of the sky in approximately 30 seconds, when it came to a sudden halt and just remained there stationary. At this point I decided to go for more people to witness what we were experiencing. On my return with three other witnesses, I discovered my partner had gone to our next door neighbour, so he and his teenage son had come to investigate, swearing my partner was mad. Just as the group of seven at this point, congregated in one huddle, what appeared to be at first, a shooting star, projecting rapidly, towards the stationary object in a vertical/diagonal fashion from left to right, at a great speed, then the stationary object took off from a standstill, in the opposite direction from its oncoming threat, and just seemed to disappear, as did the other object, it just seemed to go up and up until it was gone, but only this object manouvered in a continuous line, never leaving its course, unlike the stationary object. We saw the same phenomenon at least five times more, only they were not all heading south, some were heading north east and another passed over our heads towards the west. All looked identical, but then they were incredibly high in the sky. These events were also observed by two new members of the group, whom we had all awakened, due to our over excitement and disbelief of what we were encountering. During these proceedings, an aeroplane took off from Edinburgh Airport, heading South West of where we stood. Even once it was in the sky we were able to compare the sizes of the object and the plane, the best description we can muster, is the plane was sized like a pea, in comparison to the object which was the equivalent of a needle prick, which suggested to us, the object was flying at an exceedingly high altitude. (We are no experts, and do not claim to be, but it is our own beliefs, they were just inside or outside the Earth's atmosphere). This whole experience lasted around 45 minutes (01:30 am) and was witnessed by nine people in total, although some members came a little later, but none of us can even begin to comprehend what we saw, but we know we did see it. It has been suggested that perhaps this could have been satellites, however, how can there possibly be several satellites, in the same part of the sky, going in different directions, at the same time, it seems very unlikely, and what were the projectile shooting objects which seemed to always be on the other objects pathway, on what seemed a collision course. We did report this incident to two newspapers, one local and the other in a major city, but not to have our story published, merely to try and find out if this was witnessed by anyone else, but we were unsuccessful here, however, one reporter did telephone us back and went out of his way to inform us, "no meteor showers or air activity, had been reported in this area" We then called a local Radio Station, after hearing on the grape vine that someone else had called the Station to report the same incident we witnessed, but because there had been only one caller, I think it was dismissed as a joke, that is until we called. Then there seemed a bit of interest, he obviously could not tell us who the other caller was, but he did provide us with a description, of the objects witnessed by the anonymous caller, and to our relief it was exactly the same. On reflection, it seems that these objects, at a quick glance up at the sky, could and probably would, be mistaken for stars, and the flashes just shooting stars, because this was our thoughts too, until it became a periodic occurrence, hence, only occurring when a moving object was in the vicinity. All we ask of anyone reading this is keep an open mind, and do not prejudge us as insane. We would really like to know if anyone else has had similar sightings, to help us to share what we encountered and help us come to terms with it. [End of sighting report] ======================== John Hayes ufoinfo@cableinet.co.uk ufoinfo@digiserve.com Visit UFOINFO @ http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 30 Aug 97 18:03:47 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:51:27 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples >From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:58:34 +0200 >Subject: Fwd: Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples For Analysis Stig, As they say, this is not exactly the news. On the program, Roger Leir said that he and Derrel Sims had met with Ray earlier this year on Ray's birthday in London. Ray's birthday is on September 30th. He said that Ray had given them four frames of the film. Well, not exactly. Ray only vaguely remembers Leir and Sims, who came to lunch in the company of Reg Presley. No film was given to anyone at that time. Later, Ray gave four frames of film from the same strip that Philip Mantle and I already had and from an American football game from the "junk reel" to Philip Mantle who was to pass them to Reg Presley. Reg had requested them for his own study, according to Ray. When I sent Ray copies of Dr. Leir's statement from the radio broadcast, he asked me to get the film back from Leir and Sims. I have sent a message to Leir and Sims asking that the film either be returned to Ray or sent to me for return to Ray. Ray is very upset with this whole publicity grab by Leir and Sims. The film is the same useless film that Philip and I have had for ages, and Philip has already had a sample tested. Since it is copy film, not camera original, and since it can't be proved to be from the actual autopsy footage, it can prove nothing to study it any further. If there was any point at all in further study, I would have done it. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Satellite Speeds? From: RGOFFCO@aol.com [Ralph Goff] Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:55:53 -0400 Subject: Satellite Speeds? Can anyone tell me how long it takes an average satellite to cross the sky from horizon to horizon? While sky watching on a clear night in the Nevada desert our party of four observed a pulsing white light cross the sky all the way from one end to the other. During this time the light made one small direction change. Just a few degrees but enough so that all of us noticed the change. We timed the light and it took approx. 20-25 seconds to cross the sky. Could this have been a space shuttle? satellite? We were on a mountain in Nevada and could see the entire sky almost all the way across. The sky was perfectly clear and the only traffic was a couple f-18's from Fallon NAS landing in the distance. Ralph Goff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Strange Lights From: Dan Syes <dsyes@micron.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 17:32:22 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 20:10:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Lights > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:30:55 +0200 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strange Lights > I'd have to say satellites if they moved in a straight line. I have > seen a few myself though there was something strange about them one > night. > It was around 11.00 pm local time (+1 GMT) and two pinpricks of light > (I assumed a pair of satellites or very, very high flying planes) moved > south (towards Libya). While they were still visible a third pinprick of > light crossed their paths (behind them) at roughly their same speed going > due east. Thought it strange that all 3 satellites would come so close > together in the same instant. Anyone had a similar experience? > Regards, > JJ Mercieca Actually, yes. I've seen on several occasions satellites travelling on what appears to be collision courses. They never quite collided though. Some appear to travel slower than others, and some appear to be in higher or lower orbits. I am no expert by any means on satellite trajectory, or orbit, but it would seem to me that every time our country(Native of Uncle Sam) or any other country launches a new satellite, a tad bit of forethought is needed to prevent future collisions. To get back to your questions, I have also seen satellites travelling almost like in a pair. (side by side). Maybe some of the more long time astronomers on the list can add some insight??? Any satellite mechanics?? Dan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 20:16:34 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples > From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:58:34 +0200 > Subject: Fwd: Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples For Analysis > http://www.sightings.com/ufo/santillirelease.htm > SIGHTINGS > Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Sample For Analysis > In a major new development, British entertainment entrepreneur, Ray > Santilli, has reportedly given over four frames of his now legendary > Alien Autopsy film for scientific analysis which could establish the > best evidence yet for the film's authenticity. I don't believe it until I see it. Too many people have made similar claims based upon "something" Santilli has told them --- that never happened/came true. Naturally if this blows up Santilli will claim that whomever allegedly got the frames of film misunderstood/didn't understand what he was saying. What about Santilli providing Kodak a frame of the film so that it could be verified. Kodak could then verify the age of the film blah blah (that still would not establish that it was true, only that the age is right. Bottom dollar though Scamtilli will not do that, but will give it to some people, who will have equally meaningless no name scientists (say for example a Geology PHD for the university of whatever) check it out and pronounce it authentic. This pronouncement will then slather everybody/networks up and sell another couple of hundred thousand videos. <snip> > In his broadcast conversation with Dr. Leir, Rense mentioned that Mr. > Santilli has thus far not agreed to provide that much discussed hole > punch of even a single frame of the Alien Autopsy film for analysis to > which Dr. Leir replied that he, Santilli, has indeed now finally done. > According to Dr. Leir, he and his colleague Derrel Sims, the "Alien > Hunter" UFO investigator from Houston, were recently invited to lunch > with Ray Santilli who discussed with them a number of issues about the > Alien Autopsy film and its history of public exposure since he first > acquired it. Leir stated that Santilli indicated major unhappiness and > disappointment over how the film's release has been received, and, > furthermore, expressed great disappointment and frustration with the > entire process of exposing it to the general public. > Dr. Leir revealed to Rense that Ray Santilli then passed into their > possession 4 frames of the original film on the strict and absolute > condition that it be thoroughly analysed by the best appropriate > scientific experts and that the results of the analysis of the film and > any remainder of the four frames themselves be returned to him without > public disclosure of the results; that he, Santilli, would decide if, > how, and when those results will be made public. Leir and Sims agreed. > Dr. Leir stated to Rense that the analysis and evaluation will be > performed by the best scientific and technical experts in the film > industry and the results will be sent directly, without public comment, > to Ray Santilli per the agreed upon conditions. Rense further inquired So unless Santilli releases the evaluation, WE will never know whether the film is that old or not, and NEITHER will Leir & company. Santilli can make all sorts of unverifiable claims about what the eval said and nobody is in a position to disupte it one way or the other. So much for independant evaluation. > of Dr. Leir why Santilli he has never come forward himself and offered > a sample of the original film for analysis. Leir stated Santilli > explained that if had he done so this long after the film's release, he > would no doubt become the center of a new controversy over his timing > and would probably be accused of media manipulation and charges of > hoax...allegations he has no desire to experience. What difference does it make if Santilli and his now new go betweens had the analysis done? If Santilli sent the film to Kodak and ask for an analysis to be done I would doubt that a report from Kodak would be too controversial -- unless of course it said the film wasn't that old. Probably getting ready to unload a new video, you know Alien Autopsey, Part 2. > Derrel Sims and Dr. Roger Leir most recently made international news in > Roswell, N.M. on July 4, when they presented a piece of debris reputed > to be from the original crash of an alien craft near Roswell in 1947. > Extensive scientific analysis of the artifact was presented by Dr. > Russell Vernon-Clark at the news conference who is of the opinion, due > to is isotopic ratios, that it is of ET origin. Dr. Leir and Derrel I also recall it was a press conference where nobody could ask any questions, and now Clark is back peddling on his claims, since other "scientists" have publicly disputed his "scientific analysis." Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Understanding Research From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:12:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 20:29:58 -0400 Subject: Understanding Research Translations essential for your survival in the Scientific Community IT HAS LONG BEEN KNOWN = I didn't look up the original reference. IT IS BELIEVED THAT = I think. IT IS GENERALLY BELIEVED THAT = A couple of my friends think so, too. OF GREAT THEORETICAL AND PRACTICAL IMPORTANCE = Interesting to me. A HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT AREA FOR EXPLORATORY STUDY = A totally useless topic selected by my committee. WHILE I HAVE NOT FOUND DEFINITE ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS = The data made no sense but I'm publishing it anyway. IT MIGHT BE ARGUED THAT... = I can answer this objection so well that I now raise it. OF GREAT THEORETICAL AND PRACTICAL IMPORTANCE = Somewhat interesting to me. OF EXTREME PURITY, ULTRAPURE, ... = Composition unknown. THE W-C SYSTEM WAS CHOSEN AS ESPECIALLY SUITABLE TO SHOW THE PREDICTED BEHAVIOR = The fellow in the next lab had some already made up. ALTHOUGH SOME DETAIL HAS BEEN LOST IN THE REPRODUCTION, IT IS CLEAR FROM THE ORIGINAL MICROGRAPH = It is impossible to tell from the micrograph. PRESUMABLY AT LONGER TIMES = I didn't take the time to find out QUALITATIVELY CORRECT...CORRECT WITHIN AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE = Wrong. THREE SAMPLES WERE CHOSEN FOR DETAILED STUDY = The results of the others didn't make any sense. TYPICAL RESULTS ARE SHOWN IN FIG.2. = The best results are shown in fig.2. A CAREFUL ANALYSIS OF OBTAINABLE DATA = Three pages of notes were obliterated when I knocked over a glass of beer. SUBJECTED TO CONTROLLED STRESS DURING THE EXPERIMENT = Accidentally dropped on the floor. HANDLED WITH EXTREME CARE DURING THE EXPERIMENT = Not dropped on the floor. THE MOST RELIABLE RESULTS ARE THOSE OBTAINED BY JONES = Jones is a friend of mine. A DEFINITE TREND IS EVIDENT = This data is practically meaningless. A STATISTICALLY ORIENTED PROJECTION OF THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THESE FINDINGS = Wild guess. THESE RESULTS WILL BE SHOWN IN A SUBSEQUENT REPORT = I might get around to this sometime if I'm pushed. IT IS CLEAR THAT MUCH ADDITIONAL WORK WILL BE REQUIRED BEFORE A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PHENOMENON OCCURS = I don't understand it. IT IS HOPED THAT THIS STUDY WILL STIMULATE FURTHER INVESTIGATION IN THIS FIELD = This is a lousy paper, but so are all the others on this miserable topic. I WOULD BE REMISS NOT TO THANK THEODORE BUMSTEAD FOR ASSISTANCE WITH THE EXPERIMENTAL ASPECTS OF THIS INVESTIGATION, AND DR. BARBARA KNOWLES FOR HELPFUL COMMENTS DURING THE ANALYTICAL PHASE = Ted did all the work, and Barb explained it to me.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Pat Weisslander 'letter' on Stan Friedman From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 21:24:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 21:44:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Pat Weisslander 'letter' on Stan Friedman >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 08:21:52 -0400 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Subject: Pat Weisslander letter on Stan Friedman >Stanton Friedman�s Biggest Contribution to Ufology. >Pat Weissleader >This account is a chronolog and is from memory, so there may be inaccuracies >in dates and minor data. >....The next pertinent situation was the 1995 UFO Congress in Mesquite. >The Santilli autopsy was the big issue and Graham Birdsell had come >from England to present the points against it�s being authentic... >I traded a copy for Graham�s booklet on his analysis of the case. I >promised him that I would go over it thoroughly. And I did - and it >was, in short, a pile of crap. Everyone is entitled to their opinion! >One comment he made was that the film should have been turned over >to SF at once to pass judgment on it�s authenticity. I said publicly that having spent some hours engaged with STF in his London office, Ray Santilli could have at least shown Stan either a still of the 'footage' - a photograph - anything. Ray chose none of these options. >He was defensive of SF and emotional about his dismissal of the film. True on both counts. >I believed his attitude to be an emotional dislike for the contents of the >film. It is possible that it was for reasons other than that. I maintained then and the same is true today, that unless and until the so-called 'alien autopsy footage' has been independently authenticated by accredited institutions, it must remain suspect. Whether one applies the term "bogus" or "hoax" is irrelevant. >During the year I came upon references to the South African crashes >and to the fact that Graham and SF were investigating them. I could >not tell from the stories if either or both of them were actually >in Africa, but it was implied, and I understand now that two of three >events are now labeled as hoaxes. There was an alleged Kalahari UFO crash-retrieval story that received some prominence back in 1989-90, but STF and I did not participate in any physical or on-site investigation. One of the principal characters from S. Africa was ultimately discredited and that was the end of the matter, albeit that correspondence from the South Africa Division of Wright Patterson AFB indicated some form of downed satellite was the culprit. >I was pleased and surprised to see Graham and his wife back at the >conference this year. But within minutes I knew what had happened. >He gave a half smile and refused to meet my eyes, and had someplace >else to be. Quirk observation - several hundred pairs of eyes and I'm expected to recognise everyone from the year before??? >His wife and daughters and I think a son, were all there. Nope, just my wife, two of my three daughters and three colleagues who travelled over with us from England. Seeing how my male buddies were all in their 30s and 40s, (I'm 43 years-of-age) I guess I've more grey hairs than I thought.... >I heard from another vendor that they didn�t talk to the people who >thought they had become friends the year before, except one daughter >who said they would be going to all the conferences now. Well, well. Nothing like good old-fashioned gossip and tittle-tattle. Wrong on both counts. The 'girls' made loads of friends and correspond throughout the year with several of the folks they met. Sadly, the family budget doesn't allow anyone to accompany me to Australia or Brazil later in the year, but we will hopefully all be travelling to Nevada next year for the Congress and then take a well-deserved vacation in Vegas. The youngsters do go to all the conferences - here in the UK, where we stage several throughout the year... >I work night security for the exhibits to earn my conference tickets, >and one definite benefit of the job is to read everything in sight. >I pulled out the 4 issues Graham had brought of his UFO magazine and >studied them. There was a clear pattern of disinformation that I intended >to later note piece by piece, but when I returned during the day to >buy the magazines, the family had packed up and left for parts unknown. All the magazines we brought with us quickly sold out after 2-3 days, but the 'girls' dutifully stood by the vending tables to handle queries and the like until we finally left the day after the Gala Dinner - we were there the full week. Back-issues are available so please acquire said issues with alleged disinformation. >The connection with Bob Lazar�s statements, the merging of modified >data will be used in the future-you will see - to make it appear as if Bob >had said it all like that, and when it is decided that our Dr. Michael Wolf >goes down, they hope that Bob will be pulled with him. This is they type >of disinformation setup that is made for people who are too ethical to be >touched... An 'alien autopsy' and Bob Lazar "believer" rolled into one. >Now we have built a pretty tight case, don�t you think?, that SF is >getting UFO periodical editors to skew information for financial >gain. Wrong. STF's views on Bob Lazar are well known and documented. Stan went to great lengths to highlight blatant discrepencies in the story and background of Dr. Wolf (especially his so-called accredited professional background). For our part, we merely transcripted a taped interview between Dr. Wolf and American researcher James Courant, pointing out that thorough research would need to be undertaken to test legitimacy/credibility. >People who are in need of money to just present an appearance of being >average, will work hard for pennies, but if given too much they will >spend it in a showy manner and when they realize they are caught, >they will make a showy confession like bil moore did. I expect Graham >to break down in time and nauseate us all in a similar fashion. He >was on the brink at Laughlin - the family was fighting, and his talk >was not likely to get him invited back, half of it playing a movie >we had all seen two nights before. And he knows that I know, though >I am not sure if he understood what was going on when he defended >SF to me last year. And did you know that I know that I'm not sure if others know what the hell you are going on about.... >Graham and his family are displaying a great expense account - I was >told they have a upscale rental car... It's called Fly-Drive over here - "...you too can Fly-Drive to Orlando for only $400 when you book through...." Better still when you cram 6 people into one vehicle and share the expense! >..and were not interested with trading material with other vendors when >last year carrying anything back on the plane meant paying weight fees >they did not have. Wrong again. We actually struck some excellent deals with several of the vendors and brought plenty of merchandise and samples back with us to the UK. Your'e right about having to watch the weight though - I waved the white flag as soon as I sat down for lunch on my first day in Nevada and have paid the price ever since in not being able to climb into my suit... >If it is intended for Stanton to go down in flames, it will happen >in any case, and if I should profit by it, that would be a by product >of doing what must be done. I am proud to call Stanton T. Friedman a friend. I have had the privilege of inviting him to speak at several venues here in the UK over the last decade and always enjoy his company whenever and wherever our paths meet, including overseas engagements. Once you get to know him (and you patently do not), you discover another side to Stanton Friedman. Stan is a warm and caring individual with a loving family to match. He has his critics (don't we all), but there is a huge gulf between constructive criticism and what any fair-minded individual would judge to be unjustified mischief-making of the kind we have seen here. >Please let me know if you received it! and if you think I am crazy >please spread it around so I can feel safer. >Pat Weissleader Pat, whoever you are, you don't need my help or anyone else's for that matter to spread your message. Time to move on folks. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall (Editor) UFO Magazine [UK]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Colorado Sighting Reports From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:20:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Colorado Sighting Reports > From: Michael Curta <UFOMedic@net1comm.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto (E-mail)" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: FW: Colorado Sighting Reports > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:12:03 -0600 > The following are sighting reports that have come into Colorado MUFON over > the last few months. The reports herein are in the witnesses own words. > All names have been with held at the request of the witnesses. > ********************* > ..... > 8/7/97 > Well it appears the Fort Collins, CO really does have a UFO flight path > that is fairly consistent. The first sighting was from SSE to NNW, the > second was the reverse course, the third sighting was from West to East, > and the fourth sighting was from NNW to SSE. Regarding this third sighting, it's worth keeping in mind that at your latitude, satellites can't travel from west to east, or vice versa -- in case someone should put forth the satellite "explanation." Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 The Rendlesham Forest Incidents 1/3 From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:11:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:21:34 -0400 Subject: The Rendlesham Forest Incidents 1/3 It was just after Christmas 1980, a quiet period of inactivity at the twin-base complex of RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge in Suffolk, England. They were American bases on British soil and played an important role in NATO's front-line defence. The extraordinary events which were to occur on two separate nights, would soon however dispel that calm and pose one of the UK's strangest riddles. Although rumours soon travelled outwith the base, it proved difficult to determine the true nature of these events and there was infinitely more speculation than facts. However, as both incidents centred on Rendlesham Forest, which separated the airbases and as this was outwith the jurisdiction of the US Air Force, the Deputy Base Commander, Lieutenant-Colonel Charles Halt, had submitted a report for the Ministry of Defence to investigate. Although the Ministry had indicated there was no relevant information in their files, in early 1983, US researcher Robert Todd successfully obtained a copy of that document under the Freedom of Information Act, a copy which he was informed had been obtained directly from the Ministry. That document, which became known as the Halt memo, was the first factual confirmation of the astounding occurrences over two years previously. On 13 January 1981, Halt had informed the Ministry: "Early in the morning of 27 Dec 80 (approximately 0300L), two USAF security police patrolmen saw unusual lights outside the back gate at RAF Woodbridge. Thinking an aircraft might have crashed or been force down, they call for permission to go outside the gate to investigate. The on-duty flight chief responded and allowed three patrolmen to proceed on foot.The individuals reported seeing a strange glowing object in the forest.The object was described as being metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately two to three meters across the base and approximately two meters high. It illuminated the entire forest with a white light. The object itself had a pulsing red light on top and a bank(s) of blue lights underneath. The object was hovering or on legs. As the patrolmen approached the object, it manoeuvred through the trees and disappeared. At this time the animals on a nearby farm went into a frenzy. The object was briefly sighted approximately an hour later near the back gate". The Ministry were further advised that two days afterwards: "Later in the night a red sun-like light was seen through the tree. It moved about and pulsed. At one point it appeared to throw off glowing particles and then broke into five separate white objects and then disappeared. Immediately thereafter, three star-like objects were noticed in the sky. Two objects to the north and one to the south, all of which were about 10 degrees off the horizon. The objects moved rapidly in sharp angular movements and displayed red, green and blue lights. The objects to the north appeared to be elliptical through an 8-12 power lens. They then turned to full circles. The objects to the north remained in the sky for an hour or more. The object to the south was visible for two or three hours and beamed down a stream of light from time to time. Numerous individuals, including the undersigned, witnessed the activities in paragraphs 2 and 3". Further details emerged and the story was the subject of major features in the US by both CNN and "Unsolved Mysteries". Two books on the case, "Skycrash" and "From out of the Blue", were written by British researcher and author Jenny Randles, the first being co-authored by Brenda Butler and Dot Street, two local researchers who were amongst the first to hear the rumours. "Skycrash" was published only in the UK and due to concerns about material which might conflict with the Official Secrets Act, "From out of the Blue" was published only in the US. Both books document the history of the developing story and the attempts to separate fact from fiction. Two key witnesses were then to come forward, Staff Sergeant Jim Penniston and Airman First Class John Burroughs, who both served with the 81st Security Police Squadron. Together with Halt, who was subsequently promoted to Colonel before retiring from the services in 1992, their testimonies have become the foundation of the "Rendlesham Forest" case and on 9 December 1994, all three appeared in a landmark UK television documentary, produced for the ITN "Strange but True?" series. The evidence was now much clearer and unless otherwise indicated, the following comments are taken from their videotaped depositions in the documentary. On that first night, Burroughs was on security patrol with a colleague. He recalled: "There were strange lights out in the forest. To me, it almost looked like Christmas lights at first, a Christmas display. At that point we looked at each other and we decided that we'd better go out and take a closer look 'cause we weren't sure what we were dealing with. What we were looking at wasn't real". Burroughs contacted the Security Controller and he in turn contacted Penniston, who takes up the story. "I received a call from the Control Centre to go on down to the East Gate and contact John Burroughs. And I asked them what was the nature of the problem down there and they said that they'd rather not tell me, they'd rather have me go down there and talk to the patrol man on the scene. The first thing that came to mind was an aircraft crash". Penniston contacted the Control Centre again and reported a possible crash: "They notified me that they were tracking an unidentified bogey about 15 minutes ago and they confirmed it with contact with eastern radar and Heathrow in London and the approximate location was about 5 miles off base when they lost contact with it. It was Christmas time and there was no scheduled flying for that night. I got permission to proceed off base to investigate". Approaching the presumed crash site, Penniston continued, "I started to see a defined shape and at that point I realised it wasn't an aircraft crash, a fire, or anything of that sort. The air was filled with electricity. You could feel it on your skin as we approached the object". Burroughs concurred: "You felt like you were moving in slow motion, your hair on the back of your head was standing up, you felt like you had very little control over your body". Sensing no hostility, Penniston approached the object and examined it further: "It was about the size of a tank, it was triangular in shape. Underneath the craft, was a high intensity white light emanating out of it and it was bordered by red and blue lighting, alternating". "On the upper left side of the craft, was an inscription. It measured six inches high, of symbols. They looked familiar, but I couldn't ascertain why". He observed the enigmatic object for what seemed some twenty minutes, and then, "It slowly started moving back, weaving in and around the trees... it raised up into the air and it shot off as fast as you could blink". The following day, Penniston and Burroughs examined the area. The local Suffolk police had also received a call concerning lights in the forest and were investigating the scene. On seeing indentations, one of the police officers advised that he would be recording these as rabbit diggings. Penniston disagreed: "I asked him why and he said, because he's not going to put anything other than that in his report. We found that just totally absurd. The ground was frozen and it was just impossible for that to happen". Burroughs and Penniston measured the distance between the ground markings and claim that the area formed a perfect triangle. Lieutenant-Colonel Halt was by this time aware of the reported events and although somewhat sceptical, insisted that an appropriate entry be recorded in the security police log. "I personally knew the individuals that had reported and I knew they were very credible people. I was sure something had happened, there was obviously something". In readiness for any further activity, large portable floodlights, know as light-alls, were positioned in the forest. Two nights after the initial incident, Lieutenant Colonel Halt was interrupted at a base Christmas dinner. He recalls, "The duty Flight Lieutenant came in and he was quite shaken and insisted upon speaking to myself and the Base Commander about a matter of utmost urgency. He said, 'It's back'. I assembled a small team of experts and we set off in the forest, ready to debunk it". Halt had taken with him a portable tape recorder and noted, "I'm certainly glad we made the tape, because if we hadn't made the tape, even I would have trouble believing what happened that night". "We had time to put this thing to bed. I knew there was something there, there had to be something there, but I was also firmly convinced there was a logical explanation for what was going on". "It's very unusual to have a problem with the light-alls. That night, the light-alls wouldn't work, even when they swapped out and got other ones from the base. In addition, we had problems with our radios. All three frequencies we were using were intermittent and did not work properly that night". An extract from Halt's tape recording was subsequently released and is testimony to a range of seemingly anomalous phenomena. An unidentified flashing light was seen to be apparently moving through the forest and Halt reiterated: "It pulsated, although it were an eye winking at you and around the edges, it appeared to have molten metal dripping off it, just like falling to the ground, but I didn't see any evidence of anything on the ground. I just couldn't believe what I was seeing, none of us could. Here I am, a senior official that routinely denies this sort of thing and diligently works to debunk them and I'm involved in the middle of something I can't explain". "The object suddenly exploded. A silent explosion and broke into three to five white objects and rapidly disappeared". Around a mile from this scene, Burroughs was with the broken-down light-alls, but was to reportedly experience yet another bizarre incident. "All of a sudden, out of the distance, a blue light streaked past us. Passing the light-alls, they came on. It passed through the open window on the truck, going off into the distance, and the light-alls went out". But perhaps the most remarkable and disconcerting event was to follow. Halt explained: "As we moved out of the forest, we noticed three objects in the sky. The objects in the sky were moving about, sharp angular movements, very high speed. I kept getting on the radio and calling the command post. I wanted to know if they were finding anything on the radar scope. One of the objects in the sky was sending down beams, beams of light, beams of energy, I'm not sure what they were. At that same time I could hear on the radio, voices talking about the beams coming down on the base". Suddenly, a beam of light came down directly in front of Halt's party. "At this stage, my scepticism had definitely disappeared. I was really in awe". Just as suddenly, the beam disappeared. Until recently, this was the general understanding of what had reportedly taken place on those cold and dark December nights, almost 17 years ago. Now, in a research program carried out by "PROJECT: watchfire", both Halt and Penniston have spoken in more detail about their experiences. Utilising the latest Internet technology, in conjunction with the Microsoft Network, it was possible to broadcast interviews with Halt and Penniston over the Internet and also provide a live forum for discussion. The "watchfire" site can be found on the World Wide Web, at URL: http://watchfire.msn.com/watchfire/ The interviews were carried out by award winning journalist A. J. S. Rayl, the project's Executive Editor and a former contributor to OMNI magazine. She also now writes for OMNI Internet. Penniston went over his story with Rayl: "There is some confusion about the date. There are two duty rosters, both of which are dated December 26th, but it was either that night, the 26th, or the 27th". "Since it was just after the Christmas holiday, we expected it to be a slow, quiet night". "About 12:02 am - I remember that distinctly - I was dispatched to the East Gate, which was sometimes referred to as the back gate at Woodbridge. There, I was told to contact Police 2, which was Airman First Class John Burroughs and Staff Sgt. Bud Steffans, and that I would be briefed when I got there. Penniston confirms that Steffans told him about a "problem" out in the woods. Believing it was an aircraft crash, Penniston asked Steffans if he had heard the plane go down. "He told me there had been no sound, that it didn't crash, that it had landed". Discounting this, Penniston called the Bentwaters Centre for Security Control (CSC) and spoke with Master Sergeant J.D. Chandler, the on-duty flight chief for both bases. Chandler contacted the Control Towers at Bentwaters and Woodbridge. Having confirmed details with Heathrow Airport's control tower in London and RAF Bawdsey eastern radar in East Anglia, Penniston was informed of a 'bogie' with which contact had been lost some 15 minutes previously, over Woodbridge. Receiving permission to investigate, Penniston, Burroughs and Airman Ed Cabansag proceeded to the East Gate, where the terrain forced them to dismount their Jeep. As radio transmissions were breaking up, Cabansag was stationed there as a communications link. When it became apparent there was no aircrash, Cabansag was informed and relayed that information to CSC. Even transmissions to Cabansag were now deteriorating. Penniston's story from this point remains relatively consistent, as it always has done, and he adds some significant details. "I found it very strange that there was no sound coming from the object, but the animals around us were in a frenzy. We had wildlife running by us, and lots of birds. Outside that noise, however, there was no other. That was when I decided to have Burroughs stay there as a radio link. He did not seem calm. He didn't acknowledge what I was saying, but I thought he understood. I was more concerned at that moment with what was going on in front of me". "I had my notebook and camera while I was out there, so I began taking notes. This is what I wrote: 'Triangular in shape. The top portion is producing mainly white light, which encompasses most of the upper section of the craft. A small amount of white light peers out the bottom. At the left side centre is a bluish light, and on the other side, red. The lights seem to be moulded as part of the exterior of the structure, smooth, slowly fading into the rest of the outside of the structure, gradually moulding into the fabric of the craft'. "As I was taking notes, I also memorized what was in front of me for what seemed like hours, but was in fact only minutes. Finally, I unleashed my camera-case cover and brought the camera up to focus. The air was electric. It made my hair and skin feel as if I were surrounded by static electricity or some type of energy. I began snapping photo after photo. It was still eerily quiet".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 The Rendlesham Forest Incidents 2/3 From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:12:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:22:34 -0400 Subject: The Rendlesham Forest Incidents 2/3 Describing the symbols, Penniston continues: "I got to within 10 feet of the craft and the clearing where it sat. I estimated it to be about three meters tall and about three meters wide at the base. No landing gear was apparent, but it seemed like she was on fixed legs. I moved a little closer. I had already taken all 36 pictures on my roll of film. I walked around the craft, and finally, I walked right up to the craft. I noticed the fabric of the shell was more like a smooth, opaque, black glass". "I was pretty much confused at that point. I kept trying to put this in some kind of frame of reference, trying to find some logical explanation as to what this was and what was going on". "On the smooth exterior shell there was writing of some kind, but I couldn't quite distinguish it, so I moved up to it. It was three-inch lettering, rather symbols that stretched for the length of two feet, maybe a little more. I touched the symbols, and I could feel the shapes as if they were inscribed or etched or engraved, like a diamond cut on glass. At that point, I backed away from the craft, because the light was starting to get brighter". "The next thing I knew, I was standing about 20 feet away from the craft with Burroughs, who I thought I had left back near the tree line". The remarkable manoeuvrability of the object is brought home by Penniston's description of how it silently weaved backwards through the trees at a speed of less than a foot per second. After "a couple of minutes", it had distanced itself by 100-150 feet and then rose above the tree tops, to around 200 feet, before vanishing. Burroughs and Penniston believed they then saw the same configuration of lights around half a mile distant and Penniston recalls:. "We still had no radio contact, which I thought was strange. We weren't even getting squelch. We went back to the clearing. There, Airman Burroughs noticed the impression, the indentations in the ground. We found three of them, all triangular in shape, each about three meters apart. Then I decided we should head back". "When we arrived at CSC, we ran into Sgt. Chandler and two or three other security people. They had negative contact with us for almost three hours, and they had been concerned. I remember saying to Sgt. Chandler, 'You're not going to believe tonight'. He said, 'Yeah? If it has anything to do with what I saw a little while ago, I would believe you'". Penniston also now reveals the aftermath of that encounter. Burroughs and himself were ordered to the shift commander's office, where the assistant operations officer debrief them. According to Penniston, the conclusion was straightforward and they were advised: "Gentlemen, what you say you experienced tonight is no longer able to be reported through Air Force channels". They were given some historical background on Project Blue Book and that it had been terminated in 1969. Penniston adds, "Then he said, 'Some things are best left unsaid'. He asked us to keep quiet about it, to forget it happened". There's much more to Rayl's exceptionally informative interview with Penniston and a full transcript is now available on the world Wide Web at URL: http://www.omnimag.com/open_book/bentint.html Notable is Penniston's dismay that although the camera was of good quality and used to photograph people on the base perimeter, after he dropped the 36 exposure film off at the base laboratory, he was later informed that the photographs "didn't turn out". On the night of the second incident there were also photographs taken, which Halt confirms the photographer developed himself and all of these were "fogged". Confirmation is also given that following the second night's incident, which did not involve himself, he was ordered to report to the Office of Special Investigations (OSI), which had a presence on the base. A further 90 minute debriefing followed, where Penniston again gave a general account of the incident. And there were more debriefing sessions. In the on-line question and answer session which "watchfire" hosted, Penniston added: "Well, during the Wing level debriefings with the Wing Commander, Vice Wing Commander, Base Commander, Deputy Base Commander, they were all pretty standard operating procedure-type debriefings. We did statements. We submitted our notes, did a report. And they were pretty much standard. The ones that were not as standard were the ones involving the Office of Special Investigation. They were all taped and at one point during the investigation they administered sodium pentothal with my permission to, to debunk any possibilities of disinformation going out". Asked if a debriefing by the Wing Commander wasn't "heavyweight stuff", he replied: "You bet. Well. He's the number one guy". Penniston also expanded on touching the object: "It was warm to the touch. At the time, the air temperature was probably about 32 degrees [Fahrenheit] and it was very smooth, black, glass-like in appearance, with some color that was, that would gradually turn into the opaque blackness. Then, as I ran my hand toward what I assume was the front of the craft, there was an inscription or lettering of some sort that was inscribed on the side of it." Sketches which he made of the object and the inscription are now available in the library on the "watchfire" site. "Those drawings came directly from my notebook that I had that night", confirmed Penniston. They are interesting, to say the least and are evidence which was not previously in the public domain. For perhaps the first time, we have an insight into the way in which events unfolded and adding to that knowledge is Charles Halt's detailed clarification. In his interview with Rayl, Halt confirms that the Base Commander, Ted Conrad, and himself intended to follow up on the reports from that first night. Before having an opportunity to do so, they found themselves involved with a further report of activity in the forest. "Rumours about what Jim Penniston and John Burroughs had seen were beginning to circulate out of control and I was determined to put an end to this nonsense", Halt recalls. Breaking off from his social engagement, he assembled a team of specialists and headed for the forest. His party also experienced difficulties with radio communications and he noted, "That was strange. There were dead spots outside the base, but we knew where those were and they were never in this area before". Nearing a fence which bordered a farm, they were disturbed by cries from the animals there and it was then that they saw an object amongst the trees. The reddish coloured orb-like object seemed to Halt to have a dark centre, but he couldn't determine a definite shape. It was however moving through the forest, some 100 yards away and seemingly hovering some 10 to 15 feet above the ground. It appeared to be heading towards the farmer's house. Halt confirmed to Rayl that they thought the farmers house had caught fire and the interior seemed to be engulfed by flames. "I didn't know what to think. I was quite concerned. In fact, we were all quite concerned". It was at this point that, having followed the object, it silently 'exploded' into separate pieces and simply disappeared. They then realised that the flames were illusory and had presumably been some kind of reflection from the light. Checking that there was indeed no fire, Halt satisfied himself that it wasn't necessary to disturb the occupants. "We were foreigners there, and I thought it prudent to keep our presence low and under the circumstances unknown, since all seemed to be okay". No doubt all thoughts of a relaxed Christmas dinner long since departed, Halt might have been entitled to some respite, but seemingly that was not to be. As noted, the inexplicable beams of light had previously been confirmed by Halt, however, in his interview with Rayl, he discloses further details which arguably give rise to concerns about the gravity of these events. He confirmed to Rayl: "We've crossed the farmer's field past his house and across the road, stumbled through a small stream and went out into a large ploughed field. Somebody noticed several objects in the sky to the north - three objects clearly visible with multiple-coloured lights on them. The objects appeared elliptical and then they turned full round, which I thought was quite interesting. All three doing that. They were stationary for awhile and then they started to move at high speed in sharp angular patterns as though they were doing a grid search. About that same time, somebody noticed the south, a similar object, it was round - did not change shape - and at one point it appeared to come toward us at a very high speed. It stopped overhead and sent down a small pencil-like beam, sort of like a laser beam. It was an interesting beam in that it stayed - it was the same size all the way down the beam. It illuminated the ground about ten feet from us and we just stood there in awe wondering whether it was a signal, a warning, or what it was. We really didn't know". Now, in an astonishing statement, Halt reveals that the security of the weapons stored on base was conceivably compromised by these unidentified aerial objects. Verifying that one of the four objects, "appeared to come toward us at a very high speed, stopped overhead and sent down a small pencil-like beam, sort of like a laser beam", he adds, "then it moved back towards Bentwaters and continued to send down beams of light, at one point near the weapons storage facility". He affirms, "We knew that, because we could hear the chatter on the radio", and estimates that between 30 and 40 personnel stationed around the dual base complex witnessed these events. The objects then disappeared from sight and left Halt with something of a dilemma. "The thoughts running through my mind were: 'How am I going to explain this. Nobody's going to believe this. It's just too ridiculous'. But it couldn't be ignored, because now too many people were involved". Halt was fortunate to have supportive superiors and Wing Commander Gordon Williams brought the subject up at a meeting of the Third Air Force, where Halt's cassette recording was produced as evidence. As Halt commented in the "Strange but True" documentary: "I really didn't know quite how to handle it. I reported it to my superior and was quite concerned, to be honest with you, what his reaction would be. But he was very supportive". At the meeting, it was apparently decided that as the incidents took place on British soil and within British airspace, the proper channels of investigation came within the jurisdiction of the British government and this resulted in Halt's memorandum to the Ministry of Defence. But no response was forthcoming and to this day, Halt remains mystified. British researcher and author Timothy Good, published details of a conversation he had with Charles Halt in October 1986, in which Halt reportedly said: "There are a lot of things that are not in my memo, but there was no response from the Ministry of Defence so I didn't go any further with them". Substantiating this bewilderment, Halt confirmed in the "Strange but True?" documentary: "I sent the memo, but I never heard. I kept checking and asking but I never got a response". "To this day I'm very puzzled why no-one ever came back and asked for additional information, asked questions, or even interviewed me. It doesn't really add up". There are however indications that someone was very interested in what had taken place. In that same documentary, Burroughs and Penniston, respectively, recalled: "After the incident happened, there seemed to be some strange activity going on in the base. I'm really not sure what it was but it wasn't normal activity". "At that time, we noticed that there was many unscheduled flights coming in. They told me I was supposed to keep it quiet and not to take the issue any further". Adding some substance to this suggestion, on 31st July 1994, whilst in the UK to record an interview for the "Strange but True?" program, Halt agreed to give a lecture at a venue in Leeds. During this, he mentioned that one puzzling event was the arrival of an unscheduled C141 Galaxy transporter. Halt claimed to know nothing of its purpose or why a group of 'special individuals' left the aircraft and headed immediately out to the East Gate and into the forest.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 30 The Rendlesham Forest Incidents 3/3 From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:12:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:23:47 -0400 Subject: The Rendlesham Forest Incidents 3/3 A few months ago, I was contacted by someone who had read an article I had previously written on the case. Expressing relief that the story was now public knowledge, he later confirmed it was the first time in almost 17 years that he fully realised this and felt able to tell of his involvement. Although his full name and service details are known to me, he remains wary for the moment of being fully identified other than to his ex-colleagues. Published for the first time, this is the full account of his involvement, compiled from correspondence and telephone conversation with "Tom". "I worked with Burroughs and Penniston. What they said was true. As a matter of fact, the following statements are true and can be verified by many people. The acting squadron was the 81st. SPS and 'B' flight was the acting security force on duty. Burroughs and Penniston were on 'B' flight. 'A' flight was the day flight, daytime only. I was stationed on Security - 6 with either Amn Hartman or Sgt Sauls. We saw the entire thing. Shift change was from 26th at 2300 hrs till 0700 hrs of the 27th. The top Flight Sgt on duty was MSgt Fail. Lt.Col Halt was not there the first night. It was a bitterly cold night and clear. Radio communications were disrupted on and off due to some type of atmospheric disturbance. The radios weren't working at all that night. There were 6 channels, called 'Queen', 'Queen 1', 'King 1' and so on. One channel was reserved for Law Enforcement, one for RAF Bentwaters and the rest were open. We switched channels all night. Contact had been lost with Burroughs, Penniston and Cabansag. This was on the first night, when the lights were in the woods. The person on the post should have been Burroughs, but he was missing, the weapons were missing and the phone was off the hook. This was around 2:00 a.m. We were carrying weapons and were told to hold our position. MSgt Fail went out. I could clearly see the lights from the gate, just outside the back gate (East Gate). It was next to the road. They were intermittent lights, very bright, 15-20 feet above the ground. They were pulsating and from what I recall there were 3 lights, red green and blue. It made no noise, but it defied gravity. It was really weird and scary. We all knew what we were looking at, but no one really came out and said it. I saw them, so did Amn Beachum, Amn Hartman, Amn Hernandez. To me, it seemed to have lasted an hour, but they said it was more like 6 hours. Burroughs and Penniston finally showed up. I somehow think something happened to them. They were acting strange. We were then told to go back to our posts. Shift change in the morney for 'B' flight was extremely late. 'A' flight relieved us at 9:30 am, very late. When we went out the East gate back to Bentwaters, leaving Woodbridge, there were many people, including numerous people in typical lab coats making an analysis of the area. You could see out the vehicle to the right side, that there were many people examining the area, searching, looking for something. Some of these people were in white overcoats, that's why I say that they looked like typical techs in lab coats. They were searching the area in front of the forest. The 'few branches' that were broken off were not a few, it was a lot, a huge area had been cleared. There were trees missing. I also saw 'bobbies' [British police] and little white police cars. I was pointing these things out and Hartman says, "Shut up about that". I was green. I know that they got pictures and hard evidence of this thing. Penniston told me he shot a roll of film, but it had been confiscated. The base had a problem with 'bird watchers', people who were suspected to be Russian spies. The base security personnel had to photograph anyone who showed an interest in the base activities. Penniston may have had a loaded camera in his duffel bag. A lot of people staked the place out on the second night. The crew on duty then was 'C' Flight, 'B' Flight had just finished its last midnight shift for the cycle. Halt's night was 'C' shift. There were a large number of light-alls in the forest and I wondered how they had got them all in there. We always had problems with them. This was 17 years ago, not today's technology. If Charles says a beam of light shone down at his feet, then a beam of light shone down at his feet. You can take that to the bank. These were credible witnesses. Penniston and Burroughs were Law Enforcement. As far as people that saw or knew about this incident, there were well over 30 security people who swept the area looking for Cabansag, Burroughs and Penniston, who were missing. It happened 17 years ago, but I remember it clearly. It really happened. I am glad to finally see it got out. I had no idea that it had. They told us to be quiet". The "special individuals" mentioned by Halt, were perhaps the same personnel as Tom reportedly witnessed. Tom obviously disagrees that the light-alls were reliable and that may come down to individual experiences with them. He took no part in the second night's activities. In his interview with Rayl, Penniston also mentions: "An Air Force form 1569, an accident and complaint report, was filled out. Later, I learned that that was what stimulated Lt. Col. Halt, when he reviewed the blotter the next morning and after hearing about what really had happened, to insist something about it be put into the blotter". Halt has indeed confirmed this. Tom also brought up this point and suggested, "The Deskblotter AF Form 53 has a complete account of the entire event. It will give you names that will tell you who was working what nights and where. There will be two available. One for the Law Enforcement side and one for the Security Police side. In another words LE Desk Sgt. and Central Security Control. Also try to get a hold of Incident Complaint Report 1569". It was known that, according to Halt, the relevant pages in the log book - the "blotter" or "jotter" - had disappeared shortly afterwards and Halt has also indicated that his prime suspect was "one of the participants". The intention was perhaps to secure some evidence, rather than destroy it and from what Halt insinuates, this evidence may be in "safe keeping". In the event that any such documentation might still exist, I filed a FOIA request, which passed through various departments of the Air Force, before a reply was received from the Headquarters United States Air Forces in Europe. According to the Deputy Director, Communications and Information, as perhaps expected, these documents would have been destroyed after 3 years. It seems that in his quest for answers, Charles Halt is now prepared to disclose in more detail what he feels permissable. It appears he will not comment on the question of the base storing weapons with a nuclear capability. He told Rayl, "What we're trying to do now is set the facts straight. We need to keep them straight or we'll never get the answers". This remark encompasses the claims of Larry Warren, who had only just been assigned to the 81st Security Police Squadron at the time of the incidents. Halt is scathing of the stories told by Warren and Penniston also contends that Warren simply wasn't present during any of them. Warren's story, which actually refers to another event, is told in a recent publication, "Left at East Gate", co-authored by himself and Peter Robbins. There are some clearly fundamental problems with Warren's claims and as they only serve to detract from the central evidence highlighted here, are perhaps best left aside. There has been no rational explanation which encompasses all of the events and the best on offer was a combination of several unrelated factors. Around the date of the first incident, the upper stage rocket of a Soviet satellite, Cosmos 749, decayed in orbit and burned up in the atmosphere. It was observed in the south of England and may have been visible elsewhere. This would however, hardly seem to offer an explanation for any of the reported events on that first night. The second factor was the presence of nearby Orford Ness lighthouse, and the Shipwash lightship, both of which could have confused Halt's party in the forest. Possibly, but again, that doesn't begin to explain the events on that first night, or the "laser-like" beams of light, or arguably, anything. Halt acknowledges the interpretations offered and explained to Rayl: "I've listened intently to many explanations as to what we saw that second night or what could have transpired, for the simple reason that I kept reaching out for that one straw that would explain things, but nothing fits everything". "There was a Russian satellite that I understand did a re-entry, I also understand that several of the large, bright planets were aligned in an interesting way that night. Some have said there was a meteor shower, and some have said that we mistook the whole night's worth of activities for the rotating beacon on the closest lighthouse, and the revolving blue light on top of a police car - as ridiculous as that is. I actually consider the lighthouse as a possible factor as we were in the woods that night, but it was not the lighthouse. There's no doubt in my mind. The lighthouse was clearly visible the whole time that night". It has also been claimed that no civilians reported seeing or hearing anything unusual. This has never been the case - there are significant witness reports in "Skycrash", for example. One further witness was featured in the "Strange but True?" documentary. Gerry Harris, whose house overlooks the base, recalled that on the evening of 27 December, 1980, around 11:00 p.m., he saw what were first thought to be aircraft lights. He described the scene: "They were at a nice steady speed and were moving about, so I undone the front door of the house and walked out into the yard here where I am now and just stood watching them. It was all quiet and I listened and I couldn't hear any sounds at all. I stood watching them and they were going up and moving about this way and that way and they were going up, they were coming down and I watched them for, three quarters of an hour and, all of a sudden, they disappeared. But just before they went, before they disappeared, there was a lot of activity on the base, I could hear vehicles running about, I could see the flashing lights of vehicles moving about and I could hear people shouting, it was quiet and the wind must have been in this direction. I could hear their voices and then they were calling to each other and then I could hear the roaring of their vehicles, which at that time of night was unusual". Other explanations offered, and contemplated by Halt, were mass hallucinations and psychological warfare, perhaps holographic imagery which unbeknown to himself was being tested. Being forced to consider such explanations, is tantamount to grasping at straws. The arguments that nothing of remote significance happened at Rendlesham Forest have always been weak and rarely indicated a comprehension of all that transpired. Over the years, there has been much speculation as to whether Halt's memo was "disinformation", whether there was perhaps the cover-up of an accident involving radioactive material, or a missile which had fallen from one of the aircraft taking off or coming in to land. As the picture becomes clearer, it seems there's no obvious reason not to consider the evidence at face value. There are some slight discrepancies in various accounts, Penniston for example describing the symbols as both three inches and six inches in height, but we should perhaps allow some latitude in these respects. There are further aspects to this affair which add to the intrigue. Shortly after the incidents, a large section of the forest was felled and in the "Strange but True?" feature, Brenda Butler claimed, "The tops of the trees were all knocked off, there were burn marks on the ground". "Very shortly after that, the Forestry Commission came in and knocked all the trees down, cut all the trees down, really quickly. They told us it was because of radiation on the trees". In 1984, Penniston was next assigned to Grissom Air Force Base, Indiana. By chance, he discovered a small listening device hidden in the living room and also reports receiving harassing telephone calls. He states that Burroughs was also "continually harassed" and had his house broken into. The only items missing were video documentation and files relating to the case. Penniston further alleges that Burroughs, Halt and himself have had their mail tampered with and now take precautions when communicating. There's more on these assertions in the full interview with Rayl. And is there yet one final, astounding twist to the story. Whilst there may be reservations about Larry Warren's account of his own experiences, there's no question that the discussions between Warren, his co-author Peter Robbins and Halt, recorded with Halt's permission, are invaluable evidence and further insight. The transcripts are published in "Left at East Gate" and at some points in the conversation, Halt asks for the tape to be stopped in order that they may talk over some confidential matters. Warren and Robbins now make a startling allegation. Warren firstly confirms a claim that he had often made in public. In "Left at East Gate", [p 393] he states: "Unknown to many, RAF Bentwaters and Woodbridge secretly housed the largest stockpile of tactical battlefield nuclear weapons in the whole of the NATO infrastructure". Robbins takes this a step further and writes of Halt [pp 412-413]: "He told us several other things, but not before asking me to turn of the recorder. I complied with each request. Although he did not say, 'I am telling you this in confidence', that was what I understood him to mean". "In July 1994, Halt returned to England and addressed a conference. Sometime during that weekend, he was speaking informally with a group of audience members when one of them asked a question about Larry Warren. Larry had not been there, came the answer; his account was untrue". [...] "For me, Halt's response was the equivalent of breaking a confidence. That is why I have decided to break the confidence that was implied when Halt asked me to turn of my tape recorder. He told us... Light beams had penetrated the hardened bunkers of Bentwaters' weapons-security area". I recently had the opportunity to ask both Warren and Robbins if they could confirm this claim. They were adamant. Halt had told them this "face-to-face". Halt's own confirmation that beams of light were directed near the weapons storage facility, had not to my knowledge been revealed by Halt until after the publication of "Left at East Gate". In the transcript of one taped discussion, Halt makes the comment: "I intend someday to have my day in court in England, publicly, if I have the opportunity. I'd like to state for the record what I saw and they'll be some people that are very embarrassed". If Halt was given the freedom to do so, we can but wonder what is yet to be unveiled. Earlier this week, the Rt Hon George Robertson MP, Secretary of State for Defence and the Rt Hon Dr John Reid MP, Minister of State for the Armed Forces, were made aware of these issues and asked if they did not agree the matter now demanded to be investigated, or explained. As our new Labour government is committed to introducing a Freedom of Information Act and was elected on a pledge of being more accountable, there may be no more opportune time than at present. It seems inconceivable, that despite the protestations of the previous administration, all that lies within the Ministry's file is a copy of Halt's memorandum. I would like to thank, on behalf of many people I'm sure, the efforts of AJS Rayl and Diana Botsford, the "watchfire" forum manager, in bringing this new information to light and the help they have given to me in hopefully putting at least some of the pieces of the puzzle together. For the moment, perhaps the last word should be given to Penniston and Halt. As, respectively, they expressed in their interviews with Rayl: "I am a logical person. Even to this day, I am still trying to rationalize from previous experience what that craft was, what happened. But there it is: I mean, I am standing out in the clearing in the middle of the forest and there is this craft, clearly triangular in shape, looking like nothing I have ever seen or ever heard about, and it doesn't make any sound, and it's got lights, and I walk around it and take pictures of it and I even touch it, and nobody, no country, is claiming it. I am 99 percent certain of one thing and that is, this craft was definitely not of USAF origin or at least not that I know of, and nobody I know has ever heard anything about a craft like this then or now. And what other country might have such a craft that has those capabilities of manoeuvring in tight conditions in the middle of a forest and all with no sound? That disturbed me then, and it disturbs me now". "I gave some thought to the possibility that we had an experimental craft of some type of hovercraft or stealth object in the area, but keep in mind, this was 1980 and technology has come a long way since then. Everyone I knew or had connections with, people who work in certain places with lots of interesting things, all said the same thing - we don't yet have the technology that can move at those speeds and manoeuvre the ways those things did and do the things those things did and all without sound. We had - and have - interesting craft alright. But nothing like this". "I'm permanently convinced, the objects we saw were under some type of intelligent control. Something unexplained happened. To this day, I don't know what it was". (c) James Easton 30 August 1997. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: The validity of the case against Stan Friedman From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:07:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 09:47:07 -0400 Subject: Re: The validity of the case against Stan Friedman Let's see exactly what case is made against Stan, based on keeping only the statements which relate to him directly: > From: Ashley Rye <ashleyry@netcomuk.co.uk>, on 8/30/97 9:30 AM: > Stanton Friedman=C6s Biggest Contribution to Ufology. > pat weissleader > I went back to the expo the next day and attended a panel discussion > on ufo=C6s. the panel consisted of bill moore, stanton friedman, sheryl > stark (editor of ufo magazine) and perhaps one other person. > > I was disturbed when most of the program consisted of sf waving around > blocked out documents and ranting about coverup. I felt that this > had resulted in anyone getting little value from the panel discussion. > Afterwards I looked at the material he had for sale. It was copies > of pages that said very little and were high priced. I contrasted > this with the excellent (and comparatively inexpensive) information > in the steinman book. At this time I considered that this man did > not have the same agenda as that author. Had I got to this panel= discussion > first I would not have bought any ufo books, feeling that the study > of these craft was not being done on a scientific basis. I sometimes > have ways of getting more information about a person and I used one > of these at the time. I pulled out a photo of my dog and approached > sf, telling him I had reasons to believe that there was some alien > influence around the breed. He brushed me off, barely trying to be > polite and did not look at me directly. I knew he had dismissed me > as unimportant and would not remember me . I also suspected he did > not consider women to be important-there was no hint of gallantry > or assumed social manners. You will understand later in the narrative > why this observation is important. (snip) > I see patterns that others do not see. I am also very psychic and > have a record of being correct about things I get flashes about. Of > course these flashes can not be considered as data when putting together > a case, but many times I have managed to put together a good case > on something, although it is not my place to act on it. if my opinion > is asked privately I give the reasons for it. it is notable that few > people ever asked about sf. (snip) > During moore=C6s speech, I saw sf gathering up his chickens in a= surreptitious > manner. I predicted his long standing association with moore was about > to come to an end. I predicted which door he was likely to slither > out of and got there first, I have a sinus condition that kicks up > in public buildings and I was blowing my nose just outside the lecture > room with a delicately embroidered handkerchief when he came through. > It happened that a gentleman approached him and slowed his escape, > stating that he had never been to one of these ufo events before bet > he had wanted to meet sf . he didn=C6t have much time and hoped he could > take him to lunch, but someone had told him that sf was with= someone-could > he invite the friend along? > > Sf had been getting restless because he really did want to escape, > and I do not recall his exact words, but the gist of it was, =E6no, > I am by myself-what did you want to talk about?=C6 it was his attitude > more than his words, and he took the arm of the man and became so > engrossed with conversation that he failed to hear the people wanting > to ask him what he thought about bill moore=C6s confession. From that > point he wasn=C6t sure who bill moore was. (snip) > remember the panel with bill moore and sf also had sheryl stark,= indicating > a friendly relationship between a ufo magazine editor and sf. I had > often wondered how such a slick magazine was supported by subscribers. > I assumed from the failure to back the excellent material in steinman=C6s > book that there was some financing from vested interests for the= magazine. > It is to their credit that the articles they did publish were not > slanted, with the exception of a series by a black doctor on missing > pregnancies or a related topic. I had written for his questionaire > and made comments about what I was finding, still na_ve enough back > then to think it was lack of knowledge rather than artful avoidance > of true information. The man referred me to a group in san francisco! > Later he was very nervous around me at an event and when a friend > who claimed to know him insisted he would be willing to examine the > small pellets I have always had under the skin, the doctor said= everything > that was proper and ran like hell. ( I should mention I have several > physical differences from other people that these days I am smart > enough not to mention. They are probably not connected to anything > ufological) > > I believed by now that sf was being run on a short leash-meaning he > was an agent that got just enough money to get by, and had to scury > to earn any bonuses. Remember that in the intelligence community, > a secret agent is not called an agent. When he has people working > for him he is the controller and they are the agents. He runs them, > and gives them money, but never enough that they can show an obvious > change in lifestyle. He may also ask for money for other people he > has found, and in most cases they would be taken by the controller > and run directly. Occasionally they are run by the first agent who > asks permission for everything he does. My main reason for suspecting > sf was being run lean was his bad suits. If I were his controller > I would not back his speaking at so many groups because he does not > have to social skills to become part of the group and to be trusted. > Also they are not giving him anything (new and valid ufo information > to use to gain credibility) and he has to scurry like hell to have > anything to say. I imagine they published his corona book. > > for many years the second worst thing sf did to my knowledge was to > disparage belief in bob lazar. The first worst was a situation that > I will describe for you here, but can not use as proof since the details > I would have to give to persuade anyone would identify her and open > her to further problems. letters I was allowed to read from sf were > not in my possession long enough to memorize the sentences. > > In short there was a lady with some skills of interest to the bad > side of our government. She resisted taking the employment offered. > When she sought other employment she found the now required birth > certificate and social security number she had all her life were= considered > false or forged. People involved in the events around her suggested > she contact sf. In time she did. She was delighted to have him respond > to her introductory note by sending her about a hundred dollars worth > of books in her field of expertise, and suggestion a direction of > research. Furthermore he hoped she could attend an up coming event > and would be happy to cover the expenses of her room and meals and > conference tickets. In later letters after she had been unable to > attend, he invited her to come and stay at his home where they could > work together on whatever projects she wanted to do. > > Despite the unbelievable details in the stories this woman had to > tell, I was able to verify most of them. There were things that occurred > in other places where I found that other people knew about her and > that she had mysteriously disappeared and that everyone was trying > to find her. my helping her to leave her former address was a casual > plan and it was a surprise that it was considered to be the result > of foreign agencies. I believed then and do now that some friendly > outside influence had been involved. A safe place was found for her > for several years and several years ago she moved from there giving > me no information about where she would be. I do not want to have > that knowledge. Although it might be safe to tell her story now, I > can offer little proof of it. (snip) > One comment he made was that the [AA] film should > have been turned over to sf at once to pass judgment on it=C6s= authenticity. > I made some diplomatic reply that many would feel otherwise and. He > was defensive of sf and emotional about his dismissal of the film. > It was as if it should be dismissed at all costs and he had to find > any data what so ever to do so. I believed his attitude to be an= emotional > dislike for the contents of the film. It is possible that it was for > reasons other than that. (snip) > I have > a feeling that sf is heard from more in writing than on the lecture > circuit, but I may be wrong about this since I am out of the loop > of information. (snip) > I work night security for the exhibits to earn my conference tickets > , and one definite benefit of the job is to read everything in sight. > I pulled out the 4 issues graham had brought of his ufo magazine and > studied them. There was a clear pattern of disinformation that I intended > to later note piece by piece, but when I returned during the day to > buy the magazines, the family had packed up and left for parts unknown. > > When I can get the issues I will do the analyses, but the thing that > stands out the most is the story of dr. michale wolf ... (snip) > Now we have built a pretty tight case, don=C6t you think?, that sf is > getting ufo periodical editors to schew information for financial > gain. And with the way I tell a story, almost any ufo audience would > buy it. but there is one thing that doesn=C6t fit, and because of it, > I believe that the set up is to pull down sf and I have been set up > to do the dirty work. In that case, I do not have to fear retaliation-or > do I? (snip) > I bill myself as =E6the bad girl of ufology=C6, sitting in the back of > the room making rude noises-but enough people pay attention to know > that I am an investigator. How could I fail to notice the spending > and associate it with sf=C6s partiality for publishers? If someone is > orchestrating this, they could not realize I could read all the= magazines, > and before I did that I would not have put forward a theory-the skewing > of information is the critical proof. So it is likely that some critical > confirmation would be offered. Now how would that be done? > > It was a remarkable coincidence that a 96B sat next to me at the banquet! > He said he was a 98C but then he tried to tell me that my son was > too, and I am sure david said he is a 97C. my son told me once while > he was in training that they would all give their right arms to be > a 96B, which is what I am. And I am certain that the man who sat next > to me was really a 96B. if he were the same as my son, and he claimed > to have the similar job description, he would not have been taught > the things that he mentioned while agreeing with me that there was > no doubt about the sf thing. I did not feel I knew him from anywhere, > but he said we had talked last year-could I have forgotten such a > thing? Or could I have seen him once years ago in some training and > someone was afraid he would remember. (snip) > If it is intended for stanton to go down in flames, it will happen > in any case, and if I should profit by it, that would be a by product > of doing what must be done. I have sold maybe 500 of my books that > I now bind at home, but with doing the building, working cement, etc, > my hands are giving out. If I don=C6t find a publisher and have money > to pay people to do the rough work, I will have to stop writing. This > situation just popped up and I was told to deal with it fast, but > I have a lot of important things to say. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Now, here's how I would condense these statements: The author did not agree with Stan's use of FOIA documents or his interpretation of them as being part of a government coverup. The author thought Stan's books were too expensive and did not contain enough information. The author was offended when Stan did not take her claim of a dog breed having "alien influences" seriously, and was surprised that he did not want to spend time talking about it. For this reason, she also decided that Stan didn't consider women important. The author is "psychic" and finds it notable that few people asked about any "flashes" she might have had about Stan. The author thought it was suspicious that Stan started to leave a convention during Bill Moore's public admission of providing false information to UFO researchers, and that he didn't answer questions about how he felt about Moore. The presence of Stan on a panel with Stark indicated a friendly relationship between Stan and UFO Magazine. The author "assumed from the failure to back the excellent material in steinman's book that there was some financing from vested interests for the magazine." The author's "main reason for suspecting sf was being run lean [as an agent on low pay] was his bad suits" The second worst thing Stan ever did was to disparage Bob Lazar. The first worst thing Stan ever did was to try to help some woman who was having some sort of trouble related to government employment and forged Social Security documents. Stan writes more than he lectures. A man who the author identifies as a 96B sat next to her at a banquet and agreed with her about Stan. The author states: "> Now we have built a pretty tight case, don't you think?, that sf is > getting ufo periodical editors to schew information for financial > gain. " I'm afraid I don't think so. P.S. My apologies for the lenghty quotes, but I think it is important that my summary be seen alongside the statements summarized so that it is clear I am not misinterpreting the author's remarks. ------- Mark Cashman, creator of the Temporal Doorway at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/5623/ http://www.infohaus.com/access/by-seller/The_Temporal_Doorway_Storefront Original digital art, writing and UFO research mcashman@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: Men In Black Vehicles From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 02:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 09:23:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Men In Black Vehicles >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:28:10 -0400 >From: "skyeking@aye.net" <skyeking@aye.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Men In Black Vehicles >> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:11:04 GMT >> Subject: Re:UFO UpDate: Men In Black Vehicles >> From: "Roger R. Prokic" <rprokic@ibm.net> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> >From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) >> >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:09:01 -0500 >> >To: updates@globalserve.net >> >Subject: Men In Black Vehicles >> >Does anyone have any information on what the classic "men in black" are >> >found to be traveling in these days? The reason is, I do believe I had a >> >run in with these guys last night. >> Tell us about your run-in. >> Roger R. Prokic >My Associate, Clint Stone, filed this report with me which will run this >month in our KY/MUFON newsletter, the "Bluegrass Bulletin," regarding >his possible UFO sighting and MIB encounter: >On Sunday night, about 9:30 p.m., I took a stroll outside my house in >hopes of taking some pictures of the planet Jupiter for my Astronomy >class. It turned out to be a cloudy night so I looked around for >something else to photograph. It was then that I noticed a bright light >coming through a stand of trees off in the distance and to the south of >me. I followed the object's progress until it came into full view and >immediately noticed it didn't look like an airplane - although I assumed >that it was. The object sported a combination of red, yellow, and white >lights all around it, instead of the regulation red, white and green. >"Man, this thing's goin' down!" I thought to myself as I continued to >watch the object. It was flying at such an extreme angle towards the >ground that I thought it must be about to crash or land on the highway. >I did hear what I thought to be the sound of a twin-engine aircraft but >this object couldn't have been an airplane and survive such a steep >angle of descent. >I snapped a picture of the object then repositioned myself in order to >keep an eye on it until it disappeared from view. Then I began the short >walk back to my house. That's when I noticed the headlights of a car >approaching my neighbor's driveway. As I continued to watch, the car >extinguished its lights and pulled up slowly in front of mine. Standing >only twenty feet away from it at this point, I was able to make out the >vague silhouette of someone staring at me (at least that's what it felt >like) from the driver's seat. Then I stepped into the glare of a nearby >security light in order to get a better look. The car -- a dark colored, >luxury compact of recent vintage -- immediately sped off at this point, >turning on its headlights as it did. >I immediately phone SD Jerry Washington who asked me to contact the >Henderson (KY.) and Evansville (IN.) airports to see if any crashes or >reports of similar objects had been logged. The answer was negative on >both counts; no crashed or aircraft of ANY description reported at that >time. This also included blimps and advertising planes. The local police >department was contacted, too, with similar results. >The next night, just out of curiosity, I stepped outside again to see >what I could see and noticed an airplane in the same general area. But >in this case it was obviously a plane. It had the regulation lights, and >it's outline was clearly visible, unlike the night before. >Jerry Washington >SD KY/MUFON Jerry, Where does Clint live? I live in Owensboro and work in Henderson. If I'n not mistaken, you live in Louisville. Correct? REgards, Mike C.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: Strange Lights From: Alfred Breull <puma@hannover.sgh-net.de> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 10:54:01 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 09:33:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Lights >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:30:55 +0200 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: JJ Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Strange Lights >> From: brazel@webtv.net (Clint Stone) >> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:13:02 -0500 >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Strange lights >> My question is a simple but dignified one. What are all these small >> white lights, that seem to be traveling effortlessly, that I see almost >> every night I stargaze? Could they be satelites? Balloons? Any >> suggestion are welcome. >I'd have to say satellites if they moved in a straight line. I have >seen a few myself though there was something strange about them one >night. >---- snip --- > While they were still visible a third pinprick of >light crossed their paths (behind them) at roughly their same speed going >due east. Thought it strange that all 3 satellites would come so close >together in the same instant. ---- snap Why not ? They have ca 7.500 satellits up there on different levels and paths, with lots of technical stuff including the latest scientific German digital camera, observing each and everything. As metioned before, the camera's resolution is independent of wheather, and resolved a 7 cm (ca 2.5 inch) cable of a ski gondola on a distance of 40 km (ca. 25 miles) through fog, mist and clouds in the alps, as shown in a recent German tv report from 3 months ago. -Alf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 31 UFOR: Re: The validity of the case against Stan From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 03:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 09:52:01 -0400 Subject: UFOR: Re: The validity of the case against Stan From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> I categorically and totally deny ever receiving any money from any intelligence agency to skew any editors take on anything. I certainly didn't provide money for a room for some woman at some conference. Furthermore if this lying woman has any evidence that Bob Lazar, or Michael Wolf are scientists or that Al Bielek is legitimate please put it out there. I have been vocal about my research because I am always being asked about these liars. The question should be who is paying this woman to make these viciously false totally unsubstantiated charges. She certainly has a right to have what opinions she has despite any substance to them. Spreading these false charges is quite another matter. I would suggest she is mentally ill and beinbg paid by some agency. She claims she has built a pretty tight case against me. Where is it? Enough time wasted. I would be happy to fax a one page article on my findings on Lazar. My fax is 506-450-3832. We still don't know just what of my material Pat has read if any. I am sorry she didn't like my waving blacked out documents to establish the coverup by NSA and CIA. She obviosuly doesn't require evidence . I do. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 31 Aug 97 09:48:41 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:17:19 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples >From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:51:36 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Santilli Releases Alien Autopsy Film Samples For >Analysis' Lat night I posted the truth, to the best of my knowledge, about this silliness. All of the film that Ray has passed on to anyone for study has been pieces of copy film, and not demonstrably from the actual autopsy sequence, and therefore useless. I have reached the conclusion, which I have passed on to Ray and he has not disputed, that Ray and his associates do not now have any camera original film. I do not know if they ever had or saw any. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 31 Close Encounters of the Third Kind - Re-release From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 02:32:34 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 13:36:03 -0400 Subject: Close Encounters of the Third Kind - Re-release CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND - SPECIAL EDITION PRESS RELEASE In the year of the 50th anniversary of the first recorded UFO sighting, and with the current craze of all things sci-fi, UFO and extra-terrestrial, the granddaddy of the modern sci-fi mivie 'CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND' (PG) comes to video on September 22 l997 at =A39.99 rrp. This new digitally re-mastered and restored edition has been approved by the director, Steven Spielberg, himself. Originally released in l978 and a phenomenon with a special place in film history, 'CLOSE ENCOUNTERS' features in many people's all-time top ten "greats", not just sci-fi enthusiasts. In its day, the visual effects, created by British special effects master Douglas Trumbull, were on the far side of the cutting edge of sci-fi film technology. The film has one of the most distinctive, haunting and memorable film theme tunes of all time, courtesy of movie music maestro and Spielberg collaborator, John Williams. And Spielberg was the first director to treat aliens sympatheticaly, not the simplistic anti-American enemy. 'CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND' begins when Roy Neary (Richard Dreyfuss), a power repairman, witnesses unidentified flying objects in the skies near his Indiana home. He tries to understand his experience but is thwarted by a government cover-up. His wife (Teri Garr) cannot understand and watches their relationship disintergrate. Neary finds an ally in Jillian Guiler (Melinda Dillon), who also witnessed the visitation and whose son has been kidnapped by the UFOs. They, and others like them, are drawn inexplicably to Wyoming, to a mounntain they have seen in dreams, paintings, sculptures, even mashed potato... With new evidence concerning the possibility of life on other planets resulting in renewed global interest in the subject, the cult phenomenon which is 'THE X FILES', and a clutch of recent sci-fi films (Mars Attacks and Independence Day), no video or sci-fi collection is complete without this new edition of 'CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND'. Product Information: Release Date: 22 September l997. Certificate: PG. Running Time: 127 minutes. Formats: Full Screen and Wide Screen. Price: =A39.99. Note to editors: If you are interested in running a competition, offering copies of Close Encounters Of The Third Kind as prizes, please use the contact details below. For further information/transparencies, please contact Deborah Kings or Charlotte Evans at Consolidated Comunications, 1-5 Poland Street, London, W1V 3DG. Tele: 0171 287 2087. E-mail: charlote@consol.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Aug > Aug 31 The validity of the case against Stan Friedman From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 31 Aug 97 11:32:15 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 13:36:53 -0400 Subject: The validity of the case against Stan Friedman >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: re: The validity of the case against Stan Friedman >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:07:53 -0700 Mark, Excellent work. So, in summary, we have some person who is peeved because Stan didn't take her seriously??? Big deal1 I can't claim to know Stan really well, even though we have had an opportunity to talk at some lunches and dinners together and in a couple of private chats, but I respect him a lot. One of the reasons is that he has a really good sense of humor, something which I have found all too lacking in most of this weird field. I distrust who can not see the innate humor in all of this. Bravo Stan! Bob