UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Feb 1998

  Feb 3:

   No Mail for Two Days!? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [5]
   Re: Greenwood's resignation from CAUS - Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl
   Pflock] [20]
   Timothy Good Lectures - Graham William Birdsall [50]
   Cecilia Dean discusses Crisis - "Yvonne Hedenland" [20]
   Re: PROJECT-1947: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs - jan@cyberzone.net (Jan
   Aldrich) [38]
   Re: Underground Bases - RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] [6]
   Graham Birdsall - On The Road Again - Graham William Birdsall [11]
   More Reactions to Barry Greenwood's CAUS - jan@cyberzone.net (Jan
   Aldrich) [76]
   Karl T. Pflock on Greenwood's CAUS resignation - Ktperehwon@aol.com
   [Karl Pflock] [29]
   Re: Project 1947: DAY/NIGHT - More *U* Findings - Jim Deardorff [47]
   UFO Research Request - Philip Mantle [33]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 5 - Masinaigan@aol.com [426]
   Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction - "Steven Kaeser" [13]
   UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest Steuart Campbell - United Kingdom UFO Network
   [75]
   Tim Good 'Alien Base' - News of the World article - Raine & Crow [106]
   Re: The Philadelphia Experiment lives on - georgina@easynet.co.uk
   [Georgina Bruni] [2]
   Re: Barry Greenwood's CAUS Resignation Statement - jan@cyberzone.net
   (Jan Aldrich) [118]
   Re: The Battle of Los Angeles - Tom Benson [5]
   Regarding the Robertson Panel - galevy@pipeline.com [Gary Alevy] [9]
   DISPATCH # 81 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope - ParaScope@AOL.COM
   [94]
   Some scientists don't shut eyes to the 'unknowable' - RSchatte@aol.com
   [Rebecca Keith] [113]
   Re: PROJECT 1947: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs - Bruce Maccabee [78]
   Interview with Dan Sherman - georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni]
   [177]
   Blind Methodology article to appear in JSE - RSchatte@aol.com [Rebecca
   Keith] [49]
   Re: Help needed... - Henny van der Pluijm [35]
   Information from the A.NZ. National UFO Hotline - "ippoz" [Ross Dowe]
   [26]
   Re: Underground Bases - "Stanton T. Friedman" [6]
   'Shoebox Greetings Presents the Grays' - Steven Feldman [32]
   PEER FORUM: Bentwaters-Woodbridge - Steven Feldman [30]
   The Real David Morehouse?? - "Mark Isganitis" [153]
   Re: Underground Bases - Psdx1@aol.com [Phil Danielson] [3]

  Feb 4:

   Re: Underground Base - Henny van der Pluijm [16]
   The CAUS Initiative - UFOLAWYER1@aol.com [47]
   Re: Project 1947: DAY/NIGHT - More *U* Findings - "Larry Hatch" [21]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #220 - Alfred Lehmberg [90]
   Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction - "Stanton T. Friedman" [24]
   Re: Underground Bases - Kerry Ferrand [5]
   FBI & NSA FOIA Documents - Philip Mantle [28]
   Re: Tim Good 'Alien Base' - News of the World - Bob Shell [4]
   Re: The Real David Morehouse?? - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction - John Koopmans [14]
   Re: The Real David Morehouse?? - Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia] [42]

  Feb 5:

   Re: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs - David Rudiak [51]
   Re: FBI & NSA FOIA Documents - "WHITE" [John White] [7]
   Re: Good's 'Alien Base' - N of W article - "Serge Salvaille" [8]
   'Blather' - Occam the Barber - daev [Dave Walsh] [149]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Brian Straight [4]
   Black Helicopter - UFO UpDates - Toronto [422]
   'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY - UFO UpDates - Toronto [1111]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex
   Cavallari] [17]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [5]
   Re: The Real David Morehouse?? - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   #Visitations Guest Speaker: Amy Hebert (Yellowrose) - Angela Shilling
   [27]
   Re: Black Helicopter - Bob Shell [3]

  Feb 6:

   Re: Black Helicopter - XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari] [8]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex
   Cavallari] [9]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis] [16]

  Feb 7:

   Re: UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [8]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - u9501676@bournemouth.ac.uk
   (Simon Cleggett) [31]
   Re: Another old case recently uncovered - Chris Rutkowski [82]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - werd@interlog.com [Drew
   Williamson] [9]
   Re: Black Helicopter - Don Ledger [16]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bruce Maccabee [8]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #221 - Alfred Lehmberg [79]
   Chat with John S. Carpenter, Abductions Researcher - "Yvonne Hedenland"
   [12]
   Re: Naval Records Shredded - Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia] [79]
   kywatch: Filer's Files #5-1998 - skywatch_ok@msn.com [George A. Filer]
   [309]

  Feb 8:

   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex
   Cavallari] [4]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [14]
   Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...] - Skye Turell [16]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - JJ [13]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex
   Cavallari] [41]
   Re: Black Helicopter - Kerry Ferrand [8]
   Re: Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...] - "Keith M. King"
   [10]
   Re: Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...] - "Stanton T.
   Friedman" [7]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Jim Deardorff [21]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - werd@interlog.com [Drew
   Williamson] [10]
   Posting Rules - UFO UpDates - Toronto [55]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
   [18]
   Re: Another old case recently uncovered - "Larry Hatch" [8]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [12]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - jan@cyberzone.net (Jan
   Aldrich) [10]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Don Ledger [13]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'... - The Camera? - Bob Shell [10]
   Communication with UFOs? - "bruce white" [33]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [12]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [5]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [3]
   Re: - Bob Shell [9]
   Re: Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...] - Michael Christol
   [3]
   Re: Archeologists & UFOs - Michael Christol [38]
   Re: Archeologists & UFOs - Michael Christol [46]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 6 - Masinaigan@aol.com [Joseph Trainor]
   [506]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [12]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bryan Butcher [25]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - JJ [23]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - "Tom Burnett" [33]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis] [20]
   {88} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO Network
   [439]
   {88} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO Network
   [449]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [1675]
   Photo Of UFO Over Vancouver 1992? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [994]
   {88} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO Network
   [643]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - Bryan Butcher [15]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bryan Butcher [24]
   Re: Photo Of UFO Over Vancouver 1992? - Bob Shell [7]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - Bob Shell [4]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - werd@interlog.com [Drew
   Williamson] [34]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara
   Becker] [24]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex
   Cavallari] [134]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Jim Deardorff [20]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis] [16]

  Feb 9:

   'UFO Desk' Press Release - WBAI FM, NY - Paul Williams [12]
   Re: Books - 'The Threat' - "Greg Sandow" [39]
   Menwith Hill, United Kingdom? - "Larry Hatch" [10]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - "Tom Burnett" [21]
   UFO Desk info - "Scott Carr" [26]
   Re: Menwith Hill, United Kingdom? - Henny van der Pluijm [11]
   Re: Communication with UFOs - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis] [23]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bruce Maccabee [19]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [30]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - Nick Balaskas [22]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [20]
   Cold Fusion Researcher Dead - Terry Blanton [28]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Jim Deardorff [16]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - Brian Straight [9]
   Re: 'Shoebox Greetings Presents the Grays' - Patricia Mason [95]
   Ed Stewart - Jan Aldrich [7]
   'UFOs & Social Security?' Clinton's Speech 02-09-98 - Ufojoe1@aol.com
   [Joe Muargia] [38]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - "Tom Burnett" [16]
   Robert O. Dean - Notes From The Prophets Conference - prophets@maui.net
   [98]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bruce Maccabee [16]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - ASIUS {Mike Stahl] [59]

  Feb 10:

   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - werd@interlog.com [Drew
   Williamson] [20]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bruce Maccabee [58]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bruce Maccabee [10]
   Re: Communication with UFOs - Bryan Butcher [21]

  Feb 11:

   Re: Communication with UFOs - Bryan Butcher [20]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Steve Neeley [21]
   Re: Menwith Hill, United Kingdom? - Jules [4]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - JJ [40]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - JJ [15]
   Re: 'UFOs & Social Security?' Clinton's Speech - "Keith M. King" [8]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Jim Deardorff [15]
   "Neither rain..." - BufoCalvin@aol.com [50]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - XELAUFO@aol.com [14]
   DISPATCH # 82 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScop - ParaScope@AOL.COM
   [103]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - JJ [11]
   Re: Communication with UFOs? - JJ [17]
   Re: Menwith Hill, United Kingdom? - "Larry Hatch" [16]
   PROJECT-1947: Re: Ed Stewart - Jan Aldrich [10]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #222 - Alfred Lehmberg [88]
   Re: Communication with UFOs - wlmss@pegasus.com.au [Lawrie Williams]
   [157]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Don Ledger [16]
   Re: Communication with UFOs - JJ [38]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bryan Butcher [23]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - "Serge Salvaille" [7]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - "Tom Burnett" [36]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - JJ [23]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Brian Straight [28]

  Feb 12:

   Re: PROJECT-1947: Ed Stewart - Alfred Lehmberg [9]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Don Ledger [13]
   Re: Communication with UFOs - JJ [18]
   Re: PROJECT-1947: Ed Stewart - Michael Christol [5]
   Re: Communication with UFOs - Bryan Butcher [35]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - werd@interlog.com [22]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
   [41]
   Re: 'UFOs & Social Security?' Clinton's Speech - Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe
   Murgia] [34]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - "Tom Burnett" [61]
   Nua Blather: The Glasshouse Effect - Dave Walsh [228]
   NASA Radar Reveals Hidden Remains at Ancient Angkor -
   NASANews@hq.nasa.gov [109]

  Feb 13:

   The Next Step [was: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'...] - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis]
   [20]
   Re: Communication with UFOs - JJ [28]

  Feb 14:

   Re: The Next Step - "Tom Burnett" [20]
   Quinte Aerial Phenomenon Research Association - Quinte Eco [Sean
   Liddle] [21]
   MPD and Abduction - c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker] [29]
   UFO Video on Channel 7 News, ABC New York - Xxyyxx@aol.com [Dave Bauer]
   [6]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bruce Maccabee [47]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Don Ledger [6]
   Scott Catamas - Notes From The Prophets Conference - prophets@maui.net
   [72]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bruce Maccabee [61]
   BWW Media Alert 980213 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [59]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #223 - Alfred Lehmberg [58]
   Re: The Next Step - Alfred Lehmberg [12]
   NASA News: Voyager Most Distant Human-Made Object -
   NASANews@hq.nasa.gov [101]
   Re: MPD and Abduction - Skye Turell [50]
   Valentine 'Baby' - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis] [13]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - werd@interlog.com [5]
   Re: MPD and Abduction - "Greg Sandow" [12]
   Re: The Next Step - Jim Deardorff [59]
   Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997 - Jim Deardorff [8]
   Re: UFO Video on Channel 7 News, ABC New York - Kenny Young [26]
   Re: The Next Step - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis] [35]
   Re: Communication with UFOs - Bryan Butcher [61]
   Re: Valentine 'Baby' - "Tom Burnett" [5]
   Re: MPD and Abduction - "Larry Hatch" [14]
   Bell Holds Mass Telepathic 'UFO Call' - "Peter P." [25]
   Re: UFO Video on Channel 7 News, ABC New York - Dave Kauble [7]

  Feb 15:

   Re: The Next Step - "Tom Burnett" [10]
   Re: Communication with UFOs - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis] [47]
   Re: The Next Step - Bryan Butcher [35]
   Chat with Elaine Douglass, DC director for MUFON - "Yvonne Hedenland"
   [14]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 7 - Masinaigan@aol.com [330]
   'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - Philip Mantle [8]
   Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website - " Jerry Cohen" [141]
   Re: Bell Holds Mass Telepathic 'UFO Call' - "Keith M. King" [9]
   Increasing Fireball Sightings - AP Article - Kenny Young [92]

  Feb 16:

   Re: FOIA - Latest Army Response to Gersten - UFOLAWYER1@aol.com [Peter
   Gersten] [54]
   UFO Scotland Updated - UFO UpDates - Toronto [274]

  Feb 15:

   Thank you, list members - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis] [25]

  Feb 16:

   Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997 - Bruce Maccabee [18]
   Some Questions about Korff's Book on Roswell - Philip Mantle [63]
   Re: The Next Step - John [John Velez] [30]
   Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website - JamesOberg@aol.com [11]
   Popular Science's Website - UFO 'Fun' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [11]

  Feb 17:

   Housekeeping - UFO UpDates - Toronto [12]
   Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997 - Jim Deardorff [13]
   UFOSEARCH #10 -- UFO History; Part I - "Val Germann" [33]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Brian Straight [21]
   Re: - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo - Dave Kauble [10]
   UFO UpDate:DISPATCH # 83 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope -
   ParaScope@AOL.COM [91]
   Re: The Next Step - "Tom Burnett" [23]
   BAR 199802 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [192]
   Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell - KRandle993@aol.com
   [Kevin Randle] [67]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #224 - Alfred Lehmberg [69]
   UFOSEARCH #11 -- UFO History; Part II - "Val Germann" [35]
   Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997 - Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] [2]
   Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997 - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bob Shell [10]
   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - JJ [Jennifer Jarvis] [21]
   Re: Some Questions about Korff's Book on Roswell - Scott Hale [17]
   Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo - "Keith M. King" [7]

  Feb 18:

   Canadian UFO Conference, July 10-12, 1998 - Chris Rutkowski [24]
   Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   Re: UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY - Bruce Maccabee [94]
   Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell - DRudiak@aol.com [David
   Rudiak] [163]
   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo - Jakes Louw [25]
   UFOSEARCH #12 -- UFO History; Part III - "Val Germann" [43]

  Feb 19:

   Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell - JBONJO@aol.com [James
   Bond Johnson] [10]
   UFOSEARCH #13 - UFO History; Part IV - "Val Germann" [43]
   Image Enhancement Co. - UFO UpDates - Toronto [980]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] [8]
   Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell - RGates8254@aol.com
   [Robert Gates] [11]
   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo - Dave Kauble [22]

  Feb 20:

   Pacific NW Mysteries Chat - "Yvonne Hedenland" [13]
   Area 51 Sightings? - "Matt" [Matt Helbing] [7]
   'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - Bob Shell [7]
   Space Debris? - "Greg Sandow" [27]
   More Roswel - Dave Vetterick [14]
   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo - "Serge Salvaille" [12]
   'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - Philip Mantle [4]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] [29]
   Lunar Ice Reported - Brian Cuthbertson [47]
   UFOSEARCH #14: UFO History Part V - "Val Germann" [45]
   Nua Blather: The Raelly Late Late Show - Dave Walsh [191]
   Re: More Roswell - Steven Kaeser [16]
   Re: More Roswell - Peregrine Mendoza [Peter Brookesmith] [25]
   Re: Area 51 Sightings? - Michael Christol [8]
   'Bright Light' spotted near Navy Helicopter Crash - Kenny Young [79]

  Feb 21:

   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - James Easton [62]
   Re: More Roswell - Jim Deardorff [7]
   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo - dkauble@iquest.net (Dave
   Kauble) [4]
   Plagarism and Databases - wlmss@pegasus.com.au [Lawrie Williams] [59]
   Re: More Roswell - Bob Shell [15]
   Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website - " Jerry Cohen" [16]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #225 - Alfred Lehmberg [74]
   Alien Litter... - UFO UpDates - Toronto [825]
   CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Re: UFOR: Green Blood - Samuel Sherman [24]
   UFOR: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years - Francisco Lopez [1666]
   Skywatch: Filer's Files #6-1998 - skywatch_ok@msn.com [George A. Filer]
   [416]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - "Serge Salvaille" [20]
   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo - dkauble@iquest.net (Dave
   Kauble) [27]

  Feb 22:

   Re: Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico - RSchatte@aol.com {Rebecca
   Keith] [77]
   More Fireballs Seen in the Western US - RSchatte@aol.com [103]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] [12]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - James Easton [227]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - Bob Shell [6]
   Re: More Roswell - Bob Shell [5]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - Bob Shell [7]
   BWWMA 19980222 - BufoCalvin@aol.com [62]
   Re: Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico - John [John Velez] [24]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca Keith] [5]
   Mysterious Valley Report Dec-Jan - "Christopher O'Brien" [271]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8 - Masinaigan@aol.com [502]
   Re: UFOR: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years - Sean Jones [19]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8 - Skye Turell [4]
   Re: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years - Skye Turell [9]

  Feb 23:

   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates] [12]
   UFO*BC Information - UFO*BC [53]
   Chat with Lynne Bishop, Abductee/Author - "Yvonne Hedenland" [12]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8 - "WHITE" [John White] [8]
   Reward of a Million Dollars - Brian Cuthbertson [7]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - "Serge Salvaille" [15]
   Re: UFOSEARCH #16: UFO History; Part VI - "Val Germann" [78]

  Feb 24:

   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - "Steven Kaeser" [12]
   List Hiatus February 24 - March 4, 1998 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [13]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8 - Larry Hatch [3]
   UFO News International 35 - Henny van der Pluijm [336]
   Address Search - Maurizio Verga [6]
   UFOs In The Former Soviet Union? - Philip Mantle [27]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock] [11]
   A.Q.U./Q.A.U. & UFO Quebec - Gilles Milot [35]
   Re: Reward of a Million Dollars - Bruce Maccabee [10]
   Re: Address Search - Philip Mantle [7]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - Steven Kaeser [13]
   Re: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years - Sean Jones [13]
   Re: A.Q.U./Q.A.U. & UFO Quebec - "Keith M. King" [4]
   Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site - Bruce Maccabee [8]
   The 'Rendlesham Forest' Case - James Easton [56]
   List On Hiatus Until March 4, 1998 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [3]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 3

                           No Mail for Two Days!?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:58:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:58:32 -0500
Subject: No Mail for Two Days!?




My apologies.....

An urgent family matter precluded my being able to
attend to the List.

Messages should start flowing momentarily.

ebk





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 3

                    Re: Greenwood's resignation from CAUS

From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock]
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 20:20:03 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:44:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Greenwood's resignation from CAUS

Barry Greenwood's careful, thoughtful, and honest approach has
been a touchstone and heartening candle in the dark chaos of
contemporary ufology, and I concur 100% in Pierre Lagrange's
comments.  With his resignation from CAUS, Barry once again
raises a standard to which everyone in the field concerned about
the absurd excesses plaguing ufology and dedicated to the serious
investigation and study of UFO phenomena can repair.

I look forward to the first issue of 'UFO Historical Review' and
hope it may grow and evolve into a journal which may become the
focus of responsible ufology, a place where those who agree UFO
phenomena are important and deserve serious study, regardless of
their own particular "take" on the subject, can publish and
debate and advance knowledge as true colleagues.  As Peirre
observed, the gulf between "sane UFO researchers/historians
[ufology] and the true believers [UFOdumb]" is growing each day.
Now's the time for the "sane" to cooperate to assure this process
leads to a renaissance of ufology unencumbered by fads and
foolishness.

Yours for a renewed ufology,
Karl Pflock







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   Feb > Feb 3

                            Timothy Good Lectures

From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:34:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:03:27 -0500
Subject: Timothy Good Lectures

People who wish to order copies of Timothy Good's new book 'Alien
Base: Earth's Encounter With Extraterrestrials'  can find details
at our website: ufomag.co.uk

Also please note:

THE TIMOTHY GOOD LECTURES

LONDON, SATURDAY, 21 FEBRUARY

VENUE: IMPERIAL COLLEGE, SOUTH KENSINGTON

LEEDS, MONDAY, 23 FEBRUARY

VENUE: LEEDS UNIVERSITY CONFERENCE AUDITORIUM

MANCHESTER, TUESDAY, 24 FEBRUARY

VENUE: MANCHESTER TOWN HALL

TIMES FOR EACH OF THE ABOVE:

5.30PM DOORS OPEN

7.00PM TIMOTHY GOOD

8.30PM INTERVAL/BOOK SIGNINGS

9.15PM QUESTION TIME

10.00PM CLOSE

PRICE OF ADMISSION FOR EACH VENUE: =A35.00

* Timothy Good will also be among the guest speakers at the
Solihull 4th International UFO Conference (Saturday 28 February &
Sunday 1 March) . Timothy will be speaking on the Saturday.

Timothy will be joined by Peter Robbins (USA), Omar Fowler (UK),
Nick Redfern (UK), Gregory Kanon (USA), Tony Dodd (UK), Russel
Callaghan (UK) and Graham W. Birdsall (UK).

Doors open both days at 9.30am and proceedings run from 11.00am
until 7.00pm.

Price of admission is just =A310.00 each day (=A315.00 if attending
both) and there are concessions for students, children under 16,
senior citizens and the unwaged.

Admission for all these events can be made at the door, but you
are advised to book in advance to avoid disappointment
(especially for London).

You can book through the following methods:

Credit Card Holders:

Our WWW site

FREEPHONE 0800 068 7281 (UK only - Mon to Fri 9.00am - 6.00pm)

TELEPHONE 01943 850860 (Mon to Fri 9.00am - 6.00pm)

FAX 01943 850637 (24 hours)

Postal Applications:

Cheques & Postal Orders made payable to:

Quest publications International Ltd

Wharfebank House
Wharfebank Business Centre
Ilkley Road
Otley
LS21 3JP
England

Best regards,

Graham W. Birdsall (Editor)

UFO Magazine [UK]







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                        Cecilia Dean discusses Crisis

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 05:04:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:46:07 -0500
Subject: Cecilia Dean discusses Crisis

Considered by many to be the driving force behind Stargate,
Cecilia Dean has been developing a specialized crisis
response training model which can be used to respond to
traumatized UFO experiencers (abductees and contactees).
This model is being designed to train trainers in crisis
response techniques at a time that UFO related information
is escalating worldwide and contactee experiences are
being reported in greater numbers.

With other volunteers, she has established a Contactee
Crisis Hotline at 520-388-8591.

Cecilia will also discuss Stargate's ongoing research and
congressional efforts to have open hearings on modern
UFO evidence.  Join the UFO Forum on Tuesday,
February 3rd, 6pm PT.  This chat is available at
http://forums.msn.com/UFO

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.

A special audio interview  with Ceclia Dean
is available via Netshow, on the UFO Forum site.








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                Re: PROJECT-1947: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs

From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 12:34:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:17:22 -0500
Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs


> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:02:20 -0500
> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: PROJECT-1947: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:50:53 -0800
> >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
> >Subject: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs
> >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
>
> >The obvious implications of UFOs for Air Defenes were not lost on
> >some newspaper columnists, the Alsop brothers during the 1947
> >wave did a column on this.

> >About the time Project Sign was being authorized there was an
> >articles in the New York Times connecting Air Defense with UFOs.
> >Basically, it urged that the Aircraft Warning Service's Ground
> >Observer Corps be reactivated.

> <snip>

> >It has always bothered me that Alvarez during the Robertson Panel
> >discussions found no radar cases that interested him.

> <snip>

> >Duh?!  Huh?  Hello!  These are scientists?  They are not at all
> >curious about such a phenomenon.  They don't even recommend the
> >funding of a small study so that some colleagues could get some
> >work and funding.  Why not?  Do they have bigger fish to fry?

> >Some points to consider.  Nothing is proven.  We need more
> >information about Project Lincoln and Air Defense.

> >Once the Air Defense structure is in place. Air Defense would have
> >an interest in minimizing UFO accounts. UFOs become "politcally
> >incorrect." "If it flies, it dies," is meaningless if you admit
> >that you have things running around that you can't explain.  The
> >public looses confidence in the Air Defense and the military in
> >general.

> I guess your point here is that it shoudl have bearn (i.e., it
> was) obvious to the AF that UFOs played a role in Air Defense,
> even if UFOs turned out to be natural electric phenomena, so the
> Robertson Panel should have recommended an effort to understand
> these phenomena at least from the scientific point of view if not
> from the pont of view of needing to be able to identify things
> immediately to separate out the "natural phenomena" from th "bad
> boys" coming over the horizon from the north.

Yes, that was my point.  I was really just throwing out snippets
for consideration.

> I, too, think that th Robertson Panel people did not get the best
> evidence or the best presentation to look at.

Yes, you definitely have a point here.  Presentation was
important.  Also, it was expected that the panel members would
take the intelligence reports made available to them and study
them after the meetings.  Page indicated that not too much
serious effort was made here.

> I think the
> presenters took an apologetic attitude for seeming to seriously
> consider the sightings which obviously could not be natural
> phenomena (observations and film/photos of structured objects).
> However, your suggestion that there was a hidden agenda
> pressureing the Panel to conclude there was nothing to these
> sightings is a good one.    However, as evidence of just poor
> preparation on th aprt of the Blue book staff I am reminded of
> Ruppelts recitation of the Newhouse film case as presented to the
> Robertson panel.   They showed the film several times and the
> Navy presented the results of its 1,000 hours of work on it....
> and then the panel said "probably birds." HOwever, Ruppelt points
> out that the panel was not told Newhouse's verbal testimony.
> The reason that the panel was not told Newhouse's testimony is
> that Ruppelt didn't know what that was !   Ruppelt says several
> years later he met Newhouse and Newhouse described his wife
> calling his attention to a group of cuircular objects flying
> through the sky.   He immediately stopped the car but it took
> several minutes fr him to get his camera going and by that time
> the objects were farther away (a repeat of th Great Falls,
> Montana/Marianna film situation). Ruppelt asked "How did you know
> they were round?"  Newhouse answered "I saw them ...they were a
> lot closer,"  or words to that effect.   Then Ruppelt points out
> in his book that this information was not known to Blue
> Book/Ruppelt at the time of the Newhouse investigation/ analysis
> because Ruppelt had not asked the local field investigator to ask
> Newhouse about his visual sighting..  Ruppelt jusified this by
> saying..."why ask what something looks like when you've got a
> movie of it.."   or words to that effect.

Exactly.  Perhaps the witness testimony would not have convinced
anyone, however, it might have opened the door to further
investigation.

> One can only speculate what th RobertsonPanel would have done
> with the film had Dewey Fournet (the presenter?) or Ruppelt been
> able to recite the testimony of Newhouse and his wife BEFORE
> showing the film  (better yet, get Newhouse there; he was, after
> all, an official Navy photographer).

> I suspect the truth is a combination of the above: there WAS an
> agenda to minimize UFO sightings, but also there were slip-ups in
> presenting th evidence to the scientists.

> On another matter, regarding the Air defense Command and radar:
> I have been trying to locate records related to the radar
> inspired national alert on December 6, 1950 at about 10:30 AM
> when radar picked up a number of objects approaching the
> northeastern United States.  I have a chapter on this in my book
> THE UFO-FBI CONNECTION because two days later, according to a
> message found in the FBI file, the counter-intelligence corps was
> put on immediate high alert for any information related to flying
> saucers (Dec. 8). There appear to be NO RECORDS OF THIS EVENT in
> the files of the Secretary of Defense, other than one document
> which provides a few details that could only have come from other
> documents .

I have been to find nothing more than the information Loren Gross
has in his books.  However, my search is far from exhaustive or
exhausted.

> Furthermore, it is clear that the SECDEF office was involved in
> this event which resulted in planes being scrambled AND THE
> PRESIDENT AND SECRETARY OF STATE
> BEING ALERTED!.

> Could this be a real radar detection of a group of UFOs that was
> effectively covered up by the defense department?

Possibly, it is still classified in a SCI project.  I was rather
suprised by the level of classification of routine air defense
information.  Locations and missions of units were Top Secret.

I would add to what was said about Alvarez.  He was a supporter
of a strong offensive policy.  He was an expert on radar and had
looked at a number of problems involving radar.  He was a Nobel
laureate.  He was a complete skeptic concerning UFOs.
Given all this, he would be "disinclined" to look closely at any
UFO evidence presented.  He might look at some slightly
interesting reports and consider that they might for the moment
be puzzling, but he probably would not recommend a big study to
look into the possible "air defense implication."Why open a can
of worms?  He was a support of Teller after all.

So I am not saying that Alvarez was dead set against UFOs because
he supported Teller, and there is some dark conspiracy here.  It
is more like:

   1)  UFOs are a complete waste.

   2)  Yeah, there might be some momentarily puzzling things
here, but nothing to worry about.

   3)  If we open this up to a larger study, it is a waste of
resources and who knows where it would lead or how the other
side might use it.

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/









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   Feb > Feb 3

                            Re: Underground Bases

From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 17:20:57 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:35:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Underground Bases

In a message dated 98-01-31 08:26:49 EST, updates@globalserve.net writes:


>  From: Psdx1@aol.com [Phil Danielson]
>  Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:27:52 EST
>  To: updates@globalserve.net
>  Subject: underground bases


>  Alien underground bases are just that. They are in control of the
>  bases and have their own agenda.

>  No one has quite figured out what yet. Also involved are military
>  and intelligence personel. There is a list of 125 confirmed
>  underground bases out there, with more to be added when
>  confirmed.

Phil,

Where exactly is this alleged list of 125 confirmed undergound
bases?

Cheers,
Robert







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                     Graham Birdsall - On The Road Again

From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:33:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:05:09 -0500
Subject: Graham Birdsall - On The Road Again

Dear Colleagues,

Please be aware that I will be out of the country [UK] from
Monday 2 February until Tuesday 17 February, so I will not be in
a position to respond to e-mail during that time.

UFO Magazine's offices will of course continue to be manned
during my absence.

Hope to meet up with many friends and colleagues in Laughlin,
Nevada.

All the best!

Graham W. Birdsall (Editor)

UFO Magazine [UK]







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                  More Reactions to Barry Greenwood's CAUS

From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 11:19:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:10:47 -0500
Subject: More Reactions to Barry Greenwood's CAUS

My understanding is that when Barry Greenwood re-activated
the JUST CAUSE newsletter in 1984, CAUS was already an inactive
and for all practical purposes abandoned organization since
about 1982. Barry then asked Peter Gersten if it was alright to
re-activate the newsletter and Gersten had no objections and
apparently at the time no interest which has continued until
his recent emergence back on the UFO scene some 16 years after
1982....

For the last fourteen years, Greenwood was CAUS. CAUS without
Greenwood is just another acronym with no real meaning. The
history of accomplishments that are directly attributate to
Greenwood and the associates he worked with for the last fourteen
years had nothing to do with the CAUS that was abandoned around
1982, nor Gersten himself. The only value of CAUS over the last
14 years was Greenwood and the JUST CAUSE newsletter he edited
and published plus the research and findings that Greenwood and
his associates uncovered since 1984.

----Ed Stewart

_________________________________________________________________

I am sad to hear about Mr. Greenwood's resignation. Unfortunately,
I have never talked to him before personally, but please give him
my respects. His work along with Mr. Fawcett's work in the book
The UFO Cover-up really inspired me to do research of my own with
the FOIA, and also to start The Black Vault.

John Greenewald, Jr.
The Black Vault Site Operator
http://www.blackvault.com

===============================================================
We cannot let the whackos run the show. The rational truth
bearers must take the forefront, no matter what. We can't sit
back and let this happen.

Francis Ridge
UFO Filter Center
=================================================================
For almost 14 years Greenwood and Fawcett ran CAUS. Peter Gersten
retained the title of Director in name only.  CAUS policy was set
by Greenwood in the newsletter, JUST CAUSE.

Barry Greenwood is well known for his critical, common sense
approach to the UFO problem.  His no nonsense approach built CAUS'
credibility.  It was one of the few organization in the US that
was not tainted by slipshod thinking.

After over a decade of absence, Peter Gersten returned.  Without
even consulting Greenwood, Gersten reasserted control and
associated the CAUS name with a number of dubious elements.
What a sad day for ufology.

Jan L. Aldrich

==============================================================
Greenwood was CAUS and CAUS will mean nothing without Greenwood.
I was alraedy envisaging to translate and publish the last issue
of Just Cause before the news broke out. This has decided me to
pay a special tribute to CAUS' public action and to go through
with this publication.

Could you possibly ask Barry if we have permission to proceed
and wish him, on our behalf all the success with his new
publication we look  forward to reading.

---Perry Petrakis
   SOS OVNI

===============================================================
You can surely add my name to the people who support Barry. Sorry,
but my english is not enough good to make a statment of support.
Please add my support to any statment you want. You know already
what I think about Barry, you and a few others UFO researchers and
historians. Today, Ufology is in its dark years (cultists, believers,
conspiracy, ....), you are the keepers of the reliable knowledge,
gathering huge amounts of data (which would have been lost without
your work), and establishing archives on the UFO phenomena for the
future.

Dominique Weinstein
Paris, France

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I have just read the statement from Barry Greenwood in regard
to his resignation from CAUS.  In order to maintain his well
deserved reputation for integrity and clear-thinking, he had
no other choice but to resign.  Barry is one of those rarities
in the field of "Ufology" these days, a person who adheres to
critical thinking, and does not succumb to the rampant idiocy
that is crippling this field.  He is a far better man than those
who succeed him at CAUS.  I look forward to his new publication
which should be read by all concerned.  Barry deserves our total
support. Jan, please feel free to print this.

---Herb Taylor








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               Karl T. Pflock on Greenwood's CAUS resignation

From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock]
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 20:04:20 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:38:03 -0500
Subject: Karl T. Pflock on Greenwood's CAUS resignation

Jan,

Thx for sharing Barry's resignation letter and the sample of
reactions to same.  I dropped Barry a brief snail-mail note on
1/23 congratulating him on his decision.  Below is a more
substantive reaction (I'll snail a copy to Barry).  Please feel
free to post it wherever you like and share it with whomever you
like.

Cheers,

KARL

-----------------------

Barry Greenwood's careful, thoughtful, and honest approach has
been a touchstone and heartening candle in the dark chaos of
contemporary ufology, and I concur 100% in Pierre Lagrange's
comments.  With his resignation from CAUS, Barry once again
raises a standard to which everyone in the field concerned about
the absurd excesses plaguing ufology and dedicated to the serious
investigation and study of UFO phenomena can repair.

I look forward to the first issue of "UFO Historical Review" and
hope it may grow and evolve into a journal which may become the
focus of responsible ufology, a place where those who agree UFO
phenomena are important and deserve serious study, regardless of
their own particular "take" on the subject, can publish and
debate and advance knowledge as true colleagues.  As Peirre
observed, the gulf between "sane UFO researchers/historians
[ufology] and the true believers [UFOdumb]" is growing each day.
Now's the time for the "sane" to cooperate to assure this process
leads to a renaissance of ufology unencumbered by fads and
foolishness.

Yours for a renewed ufology,

Karl Pflock









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   Feb > Feb 3

               Re: Project 1947: DAY/NIGHT - More *U* Findings

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:23:46 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:25:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Project 1947: DAY/NIGHT - More *U* Findings

At 09:52 AM 1/31/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "Larry Hatch" <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Project 1947: DAY/NIGHT - More *U* Findings
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 04:12:44 -0800

>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:01:14 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Project 1947: DAY/NIGHT - More *U* Findings
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>> >[....]
>> >I have no ready explanation for the steady drop in the ratio >> >of day'
sightings since 1940, and invite discussion.

> REASONS FOR MORE NIGHT SIGHTINGS:
> [...]

Alright, it's time to mention the possible explanation that
remains unspoken until now.  Since, according to a recent poll,
more Americans think that UFO aliens are more intelligent than we
are, by and large, than those who think they're less intelligent,
the following explanation needs to be included:

It's in accordance with the aliens' own planning.  The aliens in
charge wished to get us up to speed on the topic of alien craft
in the skies relatively quickly -- to the point where some 50% of
the population would realize it was occurring for real.  So they
could at first permit a lot of daytime sightings in so doing.
But they didn't wish to suddenly escalate that up to 80 or 90%,
because that would quickly snowball to 100% whereupon even
science, the open government and the conservative news media
would then realize the alien presence.  The extreme panic and
chaos that would accompany a premature full disclosure would then
suddenly be upon us.

Instead the aliens wished to extend the 50% belief level for a
couple generations until we had had ample time to get used to it
all, discuss it, hash it out, etc., and wait until the end of the
millennium before seeing that full disclosure occured, since
they'd figure that human minds would at that time be most open to
change. And they'd also have calculated that by then our
sciences, especially astronomy, would have advanced enough to
allow the idea of habitable alien planets within the
galaxy/universe to become plausible and commonplace.  So they
couldn't continue with so many daytime sightings.

Since daytime sightings are much more definitive and less
ambiguous than nighttime ones, they had to go easy on the daytime
ones, after the early '60s or so, in order that the UFO "belief"
level not be caused suddenly to rise too far too fast. But they
could include more nighttime ones, as these would keep the
subject in people's minds without causing the belief level to
soar past 50%.  I.e., skeptics who couldn't handle it all would
still be able to claim deniability, and could say, "If 80% could
be due to misidentification, etc., then so could the remaining
20%."

I'd guess that the aliens' hope would be that as the end of the
millennium drew near, the knowledgeable 50% would become
effective at informing the other 50% of what's been going on
UFO-wise, and so cause the coverup to unravel via that means.
But if that doesn't seem to be occurring, they could increase the
percentage of daytime sightings then in order to get the job
done.

Why leave alien intelligence out of the picture?

  Jim Deardorff









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                            UFO Research Request

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 06:45:58 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:24:15 -0500
Subject: UFO Research Request


Dear colleague,

If you have already received this request request then please
ignore it.

I am attempting to devote as much time as possible in to a long
term study of three particular aspects of the UFO subject and
would therefore appreciate your assistance with obtaining
information.

I am looking for any and all information on the following three
topis:

1. UFO sightings, contacts, abductions, etc, etc, by people age
18 or under, from any where in the world.

2. UFO landings reports. Again from any where in the world (no
age limit of witnesses).

3. Reports of suspected UFO landings, ie: UFO may have been seen
to go to ground behind a hill etc. Again from any where in the
world .(No age limit to the witnesses).

It is my eventual hope to study these topics and publish
accordingly. If required any such information will be treated in
confidence, and credit will be given to individuals, researchers
or organisations if the material they have provided ends up in
print.

Any assistance with this request would be greatly appreciated and
I would be most grateful if you could forward my request on to
anyone who you think might be able to help.


Yours Sincerely,

Philip Mantle, co-author 'BEYOND ROSWELL'.

1 Woodhall Drive,
Batley,
West Yorkshire,
England,
WF17 7SW.

E-Mail: el51@dial.pipex.com
www.beyondroswell.com











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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 5

From: Masinaigan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:36:58 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:12:01 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 5

    UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 5
February 1, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

FIREBALL UFOs DOMINATE
COLORADO SKIES

     Colorado's UFO flap roared into its second
week with multiple sightings in the central and
southern portions of the state.
     On Friday, January 23, 1998, Jim Roberts spotted
"an orange or salmon-colored globe" hovering above
his ranch in Cotopaxi (population 75), a small town
on Colorado Highway 50 about 148 miles
(248 kilometers) south of Denver.  He reported,
"The object was hovering, dimming and brightening,
over the western horizon."
     Four days later, on Tuesday, January 27, 1998,
Marshal Steve Ford was driving in his cruiser near the
intersection of Blue River Road and Colorado Highway 9
in Breckenridge (population 1,285) when he spotted
"a large fiery object trailed by a plume of smoke."
     Breckenridge is in central Colorado approximately
83 miles (133 kilometers) west of Denver.
     "It was a fairly large object that was on fire with
smoke that was spiraling off the back of it," Ford told
the Denver Post.  "My first thought was that it was
a meteor."
     "Ford said the object plummeted more than
1,000 feet.  He lost sight of it at tree level."
     "'It was a vertical shot toward the ground, and
I'm sure it impacted the ground,' Ford said."
     "Leigh Pezzicara, a spokeswoman for Breckenridge
Ski Resort, and several guests reported seeing a flare
in the area of Peaks 5 and 6.  'However, we really can't
confirm what it was,' she said."
     Rancher "John Fisher was in Breckenridge when
he spotted the object.  According to Fisher, it created
a visible trail that covered a quarter of the sky."
     Fisher spotted the object just past noontime as
he was driving north on Highway 9, near the
Breckenridge Building Center.  "Although no one saw
where the object landed, Fisher believes it hit near
Good Pasture Tarn, just west of Breckenridge."
(See the Denver Post for January 28, 1998, "Several
Report Seeing Its Blazing Path.")
     Eight hours later, "hours after a 'daytime fireball'
was spotted streaking earthward near Breckenridge...
several people reported seeing another blazing object
south of town that night."
     "Breckenridge resident John Sperber was driving
south on Main Street at about 10:45 p.m. when he
and a friend saw a bluish-green fireball streak east
to west across the sky."
     "'It looked like an egg and was so bright we
could see some smoke behind it,' Sperber said."
     "The object was so close, Sperber said, it must
have landed up on Peak 9, near Beaver Run Resort.
'It turned out to be not as close as we thought it was,'
he said."
     "Mike Tukewicz was also driving south into
Breckenridge on Colorado (Highway) 9 when he and
his wife spotted the fireball.  His description of the
fiery object was similar to Sperber's, except the
Tukewiczes witnessed it at 8:45 p.m." about two
hours earlier.
    "'It was blue and gleaming, with a hint of orange
at the rear heading from east to west,' Tukewicz said.
'I must have seen it for three seconds before it either
disappeared or headed west.'"
     "John and Monique Derwyn also viewed the
fireball around 9 p.m. from their home in Summit
Cove."
     "'I thought it might've been an airplane going down,
but my husband said, no, it's a meteorite,' Monique
Derwyn said."
     "All of those who say they witnessed the fiery
object were facing almost due south and saw the
fireball cross the sky from east to west.  Sightings
of the fireball began about 8 hours after several
witnesses said they saw a fiery object plummet
from the sky near Breckenridge around noon Tuesday."
(See the Denver Post for January 30, 1998, "Fireball
Lights Mountain Skies.")
     Meanwhile, in Salida, Colorado (population 4,737),
125 miles (210 kilometers) south of Denver, Laray
Edwards, 17, was sitting in the family's computer room
at about 9 p.m. "when she viewed a moon-sized ball
of green light for a couple of seconds racing at top
speed and disappearing to the southwest."
     At the same time, Mrs. Kathy Ralter and her four
children were driving into Salida when they saw the
green UFO "down the road a half-mile to the south...
No tail was observed by any of the witnesses.  They
were extremely excited and some were scared."
(Many thanks to Tim Edwards and Christopher O'Brien,
author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY, for forwarding
these reports.)

DAYLIGHT FIREBALL CRASHES
IN SOUTHERN WYOMING

     On Tuesday, January 27, 1998, shortly after
noontime, local ranchers saw a "brilliant fireball"
touch down on the prairie in Hanna, Wyoming,
near Rawlins (population 9,830).
     Rawlins is a small city on Interstate Highway 80
approximately 156 miles (249 kilometers) west of
Cheyenne, the state capital.  The area is also
about 200 miles (320 kilometers) northwest of
Breckenridge, Colorado.
     "Carbon County investigators have been unable
to find any debris associated with a 'ball of fire' that
reportedly crashed to the ground near Hanna."
     "The ball of fire was reported after noon Tuesday
by the pilot of a passing airliner."
     "'He said he had seen a ball of fire, which he
believed may have been a meteorite or space junk,'
said Tim Patton of the Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA).  'He reported he had gotten some (air)
turbulence from the object."  (See the Rocky Mountain
News for January 28, 1998, "No Debris Found from
'Fire Ball.'")

TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN NEAR
ZANESVILLE, OHIO

     On Thursday, January 29, 1998, at 7:07 p.m.,
a Bellville, Ohio woman was driving east on a two-lane
road east of Zanesville, Ohio (population 26,788)
when she saw "a V-shaped object which had a bright
light at the front and center.  The rear of the object
could not be seen due to the brightness of the
twin lights.  The witness also observed a 'reddish
glow' across a portion of the rear which could have
been the edge.  The object hovered at a high altitude
for 25 minutes."
     Zanesville is located on Interstate Highway 70
approximately 55 miles (88 kilometers) east of
Columbus, the state capital.
     At 7:30 p.m., the woman telephoned a nearby
friend, who said she "had also been watching the object
'for a period of time' using binoculars.  Through the
binoculars, she described smaller objects 'maneuvering'
near the large object, seemingly to merge with it."
     "A third witness...was also contacted and also
described the object.  Its size was said to be one mile
(1.6 kilometers) across (wide) near the edge of the
'craft' and said to be an estimated six to seven
thousand feet (altitude).  The soundless object
disappeared from sight as clouds moved into the
area, hiding it from view."
     The case is being investigated by local
researcher Jim Donohue, publisher of Equinox
newsletter.  (Many thanks to Kenneth Young, public
information director of Tri-state Advocates for
Scientific Knowledge (T.A.S.K.) for this report.)
(Editor's Comment:  Zanesville, Ohio was the site
of a big UFO flap in March 1967.)

SPHERICAL RED UFO SEEN
IN VENICE BEACH, FLORIDA

     On Friday, January 23, 1998, just after 11:15 p.m.,
a woman living in Venice Beach, Florida, on the Gulf
of Mexico approximately 65 miles (104 kilometers)
south of Tampa, spotted a strange spherical red UFO
just outside her house.
     At first the witness thought it "might be an airplane
crashing.  She quickly changed her mind when, after
falling straight down, the object stopped just above
treetop height and hovered.  As it came down out of
the sky, it left a flame trail behind it.  Once it started
to hover, the trail disappeared, and 'it also appeared to
get wider.'  It changed into an elliptical shape."
    "It hovered for approximately one minute and then
sped off to the south-southwest," over the Gulf of Mexico.
     The woman then went to bed.  Two hours later, she
awoke suddenly and, feeling a little anxious, went
outside to check the sky.  "The object appeared again
and did exactly the same thing it did the first time...
Sky condition at the time was very clear."  The witness
"heard no noise while witnessing the object."  (See
Filer's Files #4 for 1998.  Many thanks to Nancy Dunning
and George A. Filer of MUFON for this report.)

CHUPACABRA BLAMED FOR
PUERTO RICO CAT MUTILATIONS

     On Monday, January 26, 1998, three cats were found
dead and mutilated at the home of Melvin Rosado in
La Parguera, Puerto Rico.  A fourth cat "vanished
mysteriously."
     Parguera is in the southwest corner of the island,
on Highway 119, approximately 55 miles (88 kilometers)
southwest of San Juan, P.R.
     Police believe the killings occurred during the early
morning hours of January 26.  "One of the cats had its
skin separated by a precise, bloodless incision.  Sr.
Rosado noticed that the three slain felines had identical
incisions on their heads and backs.  No one in the
Rosado household heard any unusual sounds during
the night."
     "'The cats weren't attacked by dogs,' Rosado stated,
'because our house has gates, and no dog would be able
to reach the cats where they were."
     Many people in Puerto Rico believe the Chupacabra
(Goatsucker) was responsible for the bizarre slaying.
(See the newspaper El Vocero of San Juan, P.R. for
January 27, 1998, "El Chupacabra Ahora Chupa Gatos."
Many thanks to Scott Corrales, author of CHUPACABRAS
AND OTHER MYSTERIES, and Lucy Pla of the Puerto
Rican UFO Research Group for this report.)

WEIRD FLASHES LIGHT UP THE
SKY OVER IRONWOOD, MICHIGAN

     On Thursday, January 15, 1998, at 6:50 p.m., Brian M.
was walking home from work in Ironwood, Michigan
(population 6,700).  "Upon reaching my driveway, I stopped
and checked the mailbox.  When I looked up again, it
seemed that a number of stars had decided to start
blinking on and off."
     "The blinking appeared random, unsequenced, and
each time the objects lit, they moved to a new location
and seemed to wander erratically," Brian reported.
"Because of the on-off sequence, and large trees near
the horizon, I am unable to give an exact count, but I
would estimate that there had to have been six UFOs
scattered across the southern sky, below 45 degrees
and as bright as any other celestial objects in the sky."
     He estimated that the UFOs were "tens of miles"
to the south, past neighboring Hurley, Wisconsin and
the Gile Flowage (lake).
     "I walked down the drive to the south side of my
house, where it was darkest.  The objects continued
their flashing and motion.  Each time one 'lit,' it was in
a slightly new position.  At last one worked its way
towards the southwest.  The rest grouped together
within 15 degrees (of arc) and headed into the
horizon" near where "Orion was rising in the southeast."
     Brian said the flashing "lasted ten minutes," and
the UFOs "were as bright as Sirius--magnitude one...
as bright as a flashbulb popping.  I am an expert
skywatcher and this incident was unlike anything I have
ever witnessed."
     Ironwood is Michigan's westernmost city, located
in the Upper Peninsula (U.P.) on U.S. Route 2,
approximately 605 miles (968 kilometers) northwest
of Detroit.  (Email Interview)

PURPLE SKY FLASH CAUSES
BLACKOUT IN KENTUCKY

     On Tuesday, January 27, 1998, at 6:40 p.m.,
two young men driving in a pickup truck on
Nicholasville Road in Lexington, Kentucky
(population 225,336) saw a strange "purple flash"
light up the sky.
     For five minutes, electricity in Fayette Mall
and in homes near the Jessamine County line
between Highway 27 and Clay Mills Road "was
flashing on and off and finally went off" completely
after the mysterious flash.
     A power outage was also reported at the
Southpoint subdivision, located between Fayette
Mall and Nicholasville.
     The young men "were coming home about
6:40 p.m. when a purple flash above the clouds
happened.  His friend's truck lost its power, and
a 'neon thing' he has on his gearshift.  It didn't glow
any more during the flash.  After the flash went
away, he tried to get power back, and the
electricity came back on."
     Lexington is in north central Kentucky on
Highways 27 and 68 approximately 79 miles
(126 kilometers) of Louisville.  (Many thanks to
Steve Wilson Sr. for this report.)
(Editor's Comment:  Those aliens had better not
mess with the beer cooler or the jukebox at my
favorite roadhouse, the Original Dew Drop Inn
on Highway 22 in Brooksville, Kentucky.  Or
there's going to be hell to pay!)

BROWN GOOP FALLS ON
PENNSYLVANIA HOME

     On Sunday afternoon, January 18, 1998,
hundreds of gallons of a weird brown wax-like
substance fell on the home of the Snell family
in Paradise Township, not far from York,
Pennsylvania (population 42,192)
     "A mysterious brown substance fell from
the sky...It splattered the house, the roof, the
windows, the barn, the stone driveway."
     "Police can't figure out what it is.  Neither
can anyone else.  It's the color of mud but it's
not grainy.  An insurance adjuster has ordered
tests on the substance."
     Rose Snell discovered the weird substance
when she returned home at 7:30 p.m.
    "'It's mystifying,' Snell kept saying as she
walked around her house."  She said "she noticed
the brown splash on her door as she entered the
house."
     "Great, she thought, I bet those boys were
having a mud battle."
     "Her 18-year-old son, Marc, had been hanging
out with several of his friends during the day.  She
was prepared to have a few words with him as he
walked in the door."
(Editor's Comment: Isn't it strange how the
teenagers get blamed every time a weird event
occurs?)
     "But his comment took her by surprise.
'What's going on here?' Marc asked."
     "Marc said he returned home about 6 p.m.
He, too, noticed the brown splashes on the door."
     Marc Snell also found brown splashes on
his car.  "He tried to wash them off his windshield
with cleaning fluid.  They were hard to remove."
     "He said, 'Mom, it's like paste or wax on there.'"
     The Snells called the Northern York County
Regional Police, who dispatched a cruiser to the
scene.  When the trooper switched on his heavy-
duty flashlight, "that's when they realized that the
brown splashes covered everything on her property."
     "'It's everywhere,' Snell said."
     "'It appears as though it came from the sky,'
Northern Regional Police Lt. Mark Bentzel said."
(See the York, Pennsylvania Daily Record for
January 21, 1998, "What's My Slime?"  Many thanks
to Rudy Alfano and Errol Bruce-Knapp for this news
story.)
(Editor's Comment: Charles Fort would have had a
field day with this case.)

UFO HOVERS OFFSHORE
NEAR MADEIRA ISLAND

     On New Year's Eve, December 31, 1997,
reporter Cristina Marto de Pimental and her
husband were at a seaside party in Funchal,
a port city on the south shore of Madeira
island, a Portuguese territory in the Atlantic
Ocean 912 kilometers (570 miles) east of
Morocco.
     "We were watching the New Year's
festivities, all the fireworks in the sky," she
reported.  Then several people at the party
called her attention to "a red and motionless
light above Funchal."
     "The OVNI (Portuguese acronym for UFO)
suddenly made a very tight circle, returned to
its initial position, and, a few seconds later, it
accelerated at great speed in a vertical direction."
     She added that a British couple at the
festival videotaped the UFO as it hovered.
     Sra. Marto de Pimental telephoned the
Fuerzas Aereas Portugueses (FAP) headquarters
in Lisboa the next day.  The Portuguese air force
told her that they'd had no flights, neither planes
nor helicopters, over Madeira that night.  (See
Jornal do Madeira for January 2, 1998.  Muito
obrigado a Bruni Barros para eso caso.)

BLACK HELICOPTER SPIES
ON DUTCH UFOLOGISTS

     Dutch ufologist Geert van Haalem announced
his resignation from UFOIA recently, claiming that
he'd been under surveillance lately by unidentified
government agents and a black helicopter.
     Van Haalem conducted an investigation into
repeated UFO sightings in and around Gorinchem,
a town in the Netherlands 77 kilometers (48 miles)
south of Amsterdam.
     Following the most recent UFO sighting in late
December 1997, van Haalem reported, "I have been
the subect of overt harassment and mind-control
techniques."
    "One day, as I was leaving home (on van
Beethovenstraat in Gorinchem--J.T.), I saw two
people...standing on a little bridge with a clear view
of my street.  It was a man and a woman.  The man
was fishing with a brand-new fishing rod, and the
woman was accompanying him.  It was clearly not
a good day to fish because it was rather cold.  The
woman was very large and muscular, and the man
was small and thin."
     Van Haalem told a fellow researcher about the
couple and was asked if he had ever seen a black
helicopter.  His answer was no.
     "The next day, I was in town (Gorinchem) and
a black helicopter flew right overhead," he reported,
adding that it might have been a SIGINT (Signals
Intelligence) chopper.  "This is how we believe
they've been tapping our phones."
     At any rate, van Haalem reportedly told UFOIA
associates that he is through with the UFO business.
(Many thanks to Danielle Seijmonsbergen for this
report.)

JAPANESE PORT INVADED
BY WILD MONKEYS

     On Sunday morning, January 28, 1998, "a pack
of wild monkeys swooped down and attacked
passersby" in the seaside town of Ito, Shizuoka
prefecture, in Japan.
     Six monkeys injured 26 people during the
morning attack.  "The monkeys appeared in
gardens and streets, biting people in the back
and legs."
     "Local authorities using loudspeakers warned
residents to beware of the monkeys as the town
organized a hunt for them.  'The people here are
scared to death,' an official said."
     "The injuries were slight, and the victims
received injections for rabies after the waves of
attacks by six monkeys between Sunday morning
and Monday evening (January 26, 1998)."
     "'This is the first time this has ever happened,
and we're not sure why it happened,' the official
said.  'We've had a lot of snow in the mountains
(just west of Ito--J.T.) the past couple of weeks, so
maybe the monkeys were looking for food below.'"
     Ito is located on the western shore of Sagami
Bay approximately 120 kilometers (75 miles)
southwest of Tokyo.
(See the New York Daily News for January 28, 1998,
"Wild Monkeys Go Ape in Japan," page 26.)

     A strange week, eh?  And not only for President
William Jefferson Clinton of the USA.  Our regular
features, from the UFO Files and Fun UFO Websites
will be back next week.  I figured that you readers
wanted ALL the dish on this week's uncanny sightings
and events.

     So join us next Sunday for more saucer news
from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP."
See you then!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in
newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 3

                  Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction

From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:06:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:51:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction

>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:38:24 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction

>>From: KRandle993@aol.com
>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:03:27 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject:  UFO UpDate: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction


<snip>

>>As we now know, no experts discussed the
>>authenticity of the tape, just the reality of the
>>abduction phenomenon. Their who promotion
>>is misleading. This certainly isn't like Star Trek
>>or the X-Files because no one is hinting that those
>>programs are real.

>>KRandle

>Hi Kevin,

>What we ought to do is sue 'em for equal time! If it was possible
>to get you and Stan on the same podium I would do it with you.

Sounds good, but impractical.  Equal time provisions were written
specifically to provide equal access for political viewpoints
during an election.  While networks strive to provide equal time,
this is done for their affiliates, who are actually covered by
the regulations.  Networks, like cable channels, are not
federally regulated entities, per se.

There is a lot of nonsense on television, and most of it we
simply ignore. If Stanton (or any other participants) believes
that their comments have been missused, he could sue to have them
removed.  But, I would suspect that the best course of action
would be to ignore the show, which is all it's really worth.

Steve









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 3

                   UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest Steuart Campbell

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:42:49 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:53:01 -0500
Subject: UK.UFO.NW -IRC- guest Steuart Campbell

UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK

Saturday 7th February 1998

United Kingdom UFO Network special guest:

Steuart Campbell

Steuart is a respected UFO investigator and author. In his book "The
UFO Mystery Solved" he offers the hypothesis that many UFOs are not
physical 'things' in the sky, but are in fact mirages of astronomical
objects.

During the 1980s when he was investigating many UFO sightings he found
that a small percentage of reports were actually mis-identified stars
or planets. Other witnesses reported seeing strange objects in parts
of the sky when a planet or bright star should have been visible.
Steuart realised that something strange was happening to the image of
the astronomical object. Something appeared to be enlarging and
distorting the image. The answer Steuart gives is that this process is
a temperature inversion that causes mirages.

Steuart will be answering your questions live in a moderated meeting
taking place at 11pm UK time on Saturday 7th February 1998.

If you are using one of the dedicated IRC programs such as the
excellent MIRC available free from: http://www.mirc.co.uk/
enter one of the below irc server addresses into your program. The
nearer the server to your location the faster the connection. If one
fails then try another.

If you wish to use your web browser to connect to the meetings, see
foot of page.

Once connected join channel #UFO

London.UK.EU.UltraNET.Org
Harrow.UK.EU.UltraNET.Org
Johnson-City.TN.US.UltraNet.Org
Mons.BE.EU.ultraNET.Org
PanamaCity.FL.US.UltraNET.org
Vicksburg.MS.US.UltraNET.org
Madison.NJ.US.UltraNet.Org
Bor.YU.EU.UltraNet.org
Testlink.HK.UltraNet.Org
Neuilly.FR.EU.UltraNET.Org
San-Diego.CA.US.UltraNet.org

If you wish to use your java compatable web browser to connect to the
meeting i.e.

Netscape 3 ++
MS Internet Explorer 4 ++

go to url:

http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/

Select 'Live IRC chat' button at the top left of page and follow easy
online instructions.

The meeting will commence live at the following world times.
This is not a definitive list. Times will vary depending on your part
of the world. We advise you to check for accuracy.

United Kingdom: 11pm
Auckland: 10am (Sunday)
Beijing: 6am (Sunday)
Berlin: Midnight
Cairo: 1am (Sunday)
Colorado Springs: 4pm
Hong Kong: 6am (Sunday)
Jo'Burg: Midnight
Las Vegas: 3pm
Los Angeles: 3pm
Moscow: 2am (Sunday)
New Delhi: 4am (Sunday)
New Orleans: 5pm
New York: 6pm
Paris: Midnight
Perth: 7am (Sunday)
Rio De Janeiro: 7pm
Riyadh: 1am (Sunday)
Rome: Midnight
Singapore: 6am (Sunday)
Sydney: 9am (Sunday)
Tel Aviv: 1am (Sunday)
Tokyo: 7am (Sunday)

We look forward to seeing you there.

--------------------------------
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk
United Kingdom UFO Network
http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/
--------------------------------







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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 3

              Tim Good 'Alien Base' - News of the World article

From: Raine & Crow <crow@crowman.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 18:01:21 GMT
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:29:19 -0500
Subject: Tim Good 'Alien Base' - News of the World article

Article published in THE NEWS OF THE WORLD Sunday 1st Feb 1998

New book claims ETs are secretly among us...............
By ROY STOCKOILL

THAT neighbour you always thought was weird, the barman at your
local who makes  you uneasy, the boss who seems to be on another
planet... it could he they're more spaced out than you feared. In
his astonishing new book, Alien Base, best selling UFO expert
Timothy Good demonstrates that extraterrestrials are living among
us in secret bases all over Earth including Britain. Some of his
chilling eye-witness accounts, documented over 40 years, indicate
they are even  able to take on human form.

Today we present his evidence. But remember, the truth isn't
necessarily out there it might be right under your nose!

IT was a journey that newsagent Hubert Lewis had made hundreds of
times before.

Dawn had yet to break over the deserted country lane as he
wearily powered his old bicycle through the wind and rain.

All he could think of was getting to the Shropshire town of
Church Stretton to collect the newspapers waiting there for him
and getting home as quickly as possible.

At first Lewis barely noticed the tall figure standing in the
road ahead. But a second glance brought him stumbling to a
halt-for hovering in the sky, to the right of the stranger, was a
circular object, 60 to 100ft across.

The panicking newsagent cried out, demanding to know who or what
was there. But the tall figure answered him, saying there was "no
need to be alarmed".

Lewis recalled: "My visitor spoke quite clear English. He told me
I had nothing to fear from the future.

"He knew of my troubles and mentioned names of people I had
known. He wished me well-then vanished."

Thirty minutes had slipped by-and all the time the circular
object had rotated above, whistling softly.

A year or so later, in the summer of 1958, the Shropshire
newsagent was confronted by another of the strange beings-this
time in a field.

The second stranger, says Lewis- who had taken on the appearance
of a human male-claimed he was from Venus and that other aliens
from his planet were living among us.

It was arranged that Lewis would take the train to London to meet
the alien, who brought with him a second visitor, a female.

They were "well dressed, dark, with a likeness to Continentals."
They went to Hyde Park and strolled for an hour by the
Serpentine, then drove to Wanstead Flats.

The three then went to a nearby cafe where the couple from Outer
Space had tea and sandwiches.

The three had further meetings over the next week before the
aliens saw him off back to Shropshire.

Lewis said: "There is much that I learned. Many spacecraft land
on Earth. Many aliens are living among us-one can't tell the
difference."

Author Good agrees, saying: "The evidence suggests that several
extraterrestrial races have established underground and undersea
bases on Earth, perhaps as a centre of operations within the
solar system."

He tells how a Sheffield-based market researcher, Joelle,
witnessed an alien known to her as Mark land in his spaceship in
the Derbyshire Peak District in 1963.

Over 15 months Joelle had several meetings with Mark and another
alien, Val. They said they were from another solar system, but
that their people had bases in South America, Australia and the
Soviet Union.

"Once they asked her to translate a Russian manuscript at the
British Museum," Good says.

"She cooked meals for them at her London flat. Both Mark and Val
had perfect manners, enjoyed wine and had a great sense of
humour."

In 1976 Jan Siedlecki witnessed a saucer-shaped craft land in
Leeds.
Two 4ft humanoid figures appeared. One said in English: "we
apologise for the intrusion." Siedlecki says they showed him over
the spaceship.

Aliens were gathered around a circular pool containing a black,
bubbling, oil-like substance from which flashes of red light
darted in the air.

A former equerry to the Queen says he had a two-hour conversation
with an alien called Janus in 1954.

The extraterrestrial made a request that stunned Air Marshal Sir
Peter Horsley-he wanted to meet the Duke of Edinburgh. The former
Deputy Commander-in-Chief of Strike Command, now in his
seventies, says he ruled out such a meeting for security
reasons.

One alien's visit to Earth ended when he was beaten to death with
a stick by a teenage boy, according to a report from Puerto
Rico.

Chino Zayas came across a group of creatures going into a cave in
mountains behind Santiago in 1980.

Sergeant Benjamin Morales of Salinas police said: "It had a head
too large for its body and pointy little ears. Its skin was
greyish green.

Preserved...............

Chemistry professor Calixto Perez, who examined the body, said:
"In my opinion it was extraterrestrial."

The creature was preserved in a glass jar at the Zayas home. One
day men claiming to be from the US space agency NASA called and
took it away, say the family.

Puerto Rico has long been regarded as a possible site for an
alien base. For four decades there have been reports of
disc-shaped spacecraft.

But sightings literally cover the globe. In Italy, photographer
Filiberto Caponi claims to have met an alien creature several
times outside his house in Abruzzo. He captured it on Polaroid
film in 1993.

Adapted from 'Alien Base: Earth's Encounters With
Extraterresinals' by Timothy Good. To be published by Century on
Thursday, =A315.99.









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                  Re: The Philadelphia Experiment lives on

From: georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni]
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 03:28:23 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:20:20 -0500
Subject: Re: The Philadelphia Experiment lives on

>From: William White <bwhite@frognet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Philadelphia Experiment lives on
>To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
>Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:23:19 -0500 (EST)

>And I'm not even going to *start* with "DNA memory".

William, please do.

georgina Bruni








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              Re: Barry Greenwood's CAUS Resignation Statement

From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:01:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:51:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Barry Greenwood's CAUS Resignation Statement

> From: SGBList2@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:50:43 EST
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Barry Greenwood's CAUS Resignation Statement

> >  Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:35:13 -0800
> >  From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
> >  To: updates@globalserve.net
> >  Subject: Barry Greenwood's CAUS Resignation Statement
 ___________________


Another absolutely amazing post from Stephen Bassett.  Please do
visit Bassett's 'People' page at UFOmind and especially check out
this item:

http://www.ufomind.com/people/b/bassett/caus-reply.txt

Now you will find that in this current post and the posting on
Bassett's page not *once* does Bassett mention Barry Greenwood
by name.  It strikes one as rather amazing that you can talk
about CAUS for the last 14 years and say nothing about Barry
Greenwood.

Please read on:

> A few clarifying comments regarding the statement below:

> 1)  the statement/ad referred to below was not by or for CSETI.
> It was written by me and a number of suggestions from
> organizations I work with (including CSETI) were incorporated
> into the document.  This statement has been modified and is now
> (or soon) available for review once more at: www.anagramvideo.com
> and  forums.msn.com/ufo. It will be published in the Washington
> Post in due course when appropriate signatures have been obtained
> and funding secured.

> 2)  a number of other issues raised relating to me were addressed
> and clarified in earlier posts by me as well as private e-mail to
> Jan Aldrich in early January. These earlier responses to this
> matter can be viewed at:

> http://www.ufomind.com/people/b/bassett/

> 3)  I have now stated several times that I regret very much these
> developments, acknowledge some errors on my part, have apologized
> for such, have not been involved in any premeditated effort to
> disrupt CAUS, admire the work of CAUS very much, would much
> prefer CAUS to keep all executives for the coming demands of
> disclosure.

> 4)  This was basically a complex misunderstanding.  The UFO
> research community has suffered greatly from misunderstandings in
> its 50 year history.  I certainly was party to this one, and am
> resolved to be more careful as this difficult and complex process
> moves forward.

> Stephen Bassett
> Paradigm Research Group
> paradigmrg@aol.com
> _________________________________________________

Let us stipulate, for the moment at least, that Bassett is an
innocent if gullible and naive person.

Bassett says in his 'People' page at UFOmind missive:

"I had been talking with Larry Bryant and Peter Gersten about
involvement with CAUS."

It does not occur to Bassett to take out a membership to
CAUS if he wants to become involved.  Possibly, if he did,
he would have learned what the policies were and who set them
for the last 14 years.

When Larry Fawcett retired Greenwood announced, that all
statements on CAUS policy came from him.  Now Bassett may
not have known that since he was not a member.  However,
both Bryant and Gersten knew of Greenwood's statement.  They
were on the CAUS subscriber list.  They have not made any
decisions or policies for nearly 14 years.  They knew of
Greenwood statements and policies and knew that Barry would
not tolerate Bassett's letter or any links with the
organizations and some of the individuals listed therein.

In this sorted business Robert Bletchman's role is probably
the worst.  Perhaps sometime in the past--over 16 years ago--
he may have been a CAUS official.  He was not even a member
now.  Recently, in the past few years he had been hostile
to both Greenwood and CAUS.  He may have told the naive and
gullible Stephn Bassett that he was a Director of CAUS, but
on the telephone to me, Bletchman declared that he "was
loosely connected to CAUS."  He also had some choice words
about Gersten, but that is another story.

Bletchman may have been knighted by Peter Gersten as a CAUS
official retroactive to 1 January 1998, but he certainly had
not been one throughout Greenwood's 14 year tenure.

Bassett, Bletchman, or Gersten did not attempt to contact
Greenwood concerning this letter.  It is indeed unfortunate in
these days that the telephone is difficult for some people to
use. Gersten had been in touch with Greenwood prior to the letter
surfacing, but mentioned nothing about his connection with
Bassett.

When I transmitted Greenwood's answer to the Bassett letter,

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/jan/m07-025.shtml

I coordinated my reply with Gersten:

============================================================
Subject: Re:    CSETI PETITION
       Date:    Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:09:14 EST
       From:    UFOLAWYER1 <UFOLAWYER1@aol.com>
Organization:   AOL (http://www.aol.com)
         To:    jan@cyberzone.net
Jan,

Excellant response to the Petition. I am impressed. My position
and the same for CAUS, is that we are against all secrecy...
whether created by the government or private, self-proclaimed
experts in the field. Maybe one day we will have the opportunity
to meet. I still feel that 1975 was an extraordinary year but do
not have the time presently to detail it for you. Can you tell me
about yourself?

Peter
==================================================================

Gersten professed support of Greenwood and his fromer statements
and policies while continuing to align himself with the very
people who Greenwood had tried to disassociate from CAUS.

The innocent naive and gullible Stephen Bassett tells us in
his UFOmind post:

"When I learned of the problem with CAUS, I took immediate steps
to correct the matter and contacted Aldrich.  He was not willing
to communicate."

However, in my answer to his E-mail on 10 January 1998 we find a
different story (B for Bassett, A for Aldrich):

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

B:   I do apologize for this.  I also apologize for hanging up
on you - I did not understand the source for your frustration.

A:  The source of my fustration came from my preception that you
were playing with me.  You represented that you did not know what
was on your website or in your letter.  However, talking to people
in the Washington, D. C. area, I find they speak highly of you.
Although quite frankly, they think your efforts in the UFO field
demonstrate great naivite.

B:  Peter has stated the CAUS position clearly.  Let's agree to
disagree and move forward.

A:  There is one final item.  You are not a member of CAUS or an
official.  However, Glenn Campbell's Ufomind website has you
connected with CAUS.

Please inform Glenn that this linkage is incorrect.

Thank you.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

After this communication, Bassett can not claim to be so innocent.
He was put on notice that as far as Greenwood was concerned,
Greenwood did not consider him a member of CAUS or to have any
connection with CAUS  and that he should inform Glenn Campbell
of such.  Bassett did not answer my E-mail.  Nor did Gersten
contact anyone to inform them of Bassett's new status until
after I lodged a complaint with Glenn Campbell after almost a
week of inaction on Bassett's part.

My specuation is that Gersten and Bassett wanted to keep
Greenwood and myself in the dark on their true intentions
for as long as possible.

More details on this are covered by Greenwood in his resignation
statement:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/jan/m30-028.shtml

To sum up:

Greenwood had been the sole voice of CAUS for 14 years.

Bassett's fantasy world to the contrary, only Fawcett and
Greenwood were active officials of CAUS since 1984.

Bryant, Gersten, and Bletchman were well aware of this.

The attempt to usurp the hard won reputation for credibility
that Greenwood had built during the last 14 years was not one
giant misunderstanding, but a calculated, sorted affair.  Perhaps
Bassett did not understand that from the beginning, but he should
now.

I certainly do not wish to be associate with CAUS longer, nor its
new fringe policies nor its new officials.
--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/









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                        Re: The Battle of Los Angeles

From: Tom Benson <sparkle@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:22:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:36:36 -0500
Subject: Re: The Battle of Los Angeles

> From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
> To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: The Battle of Los Angeles
> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:55:42 -0500

> Some time ago, on his 'Sightings on the Radio" show, Jeff Rense
> referred to the so-called Battle of Los Angeles, chronicled in
> the LA TImes, in which fighter planes 'skirmished' with a large
> globe shaped (?) UFO over LA in, I believe, 1941 or 1942.  Jeff
> was considering posting more info on his web site, but pointed
> out this was quite an undertaking (the article was long, and
> would have to be hand-typed).  So far, the article has not
> appeared.

> Does anyone out there have any info on this incident, or a
> reference to the LA Times edition in which the sighting was
> originally reported?  Apparently, a rather spectacular photograph
> accompanies the article.

> Any help appreciated,

> Brian


According to Jerome Clark's  The UFO Encyclopedia, Vol.2,
pgs.378-379, the battle took place on February 25, 1942 between
2:25 a.m. to 4:14 a.m. The Los Angeles Times wrote articles on
Feb. 26 & 27, and the San Francisco Chronicle on Feb 26. Clark
also quotes other sources.








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                        Regarding the Robertson Panel

From: galevy@pipeline.com [Gary Alevy]
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 00:45:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:47:31 -0500
Subject: Regarding the Robertson Panel

Can it be true that NO ONE on that list can remember who
Robertson, Alvarez et.al., members of the Robertson Panel were?

REALLY were: spook-scientists?

Do they not not know or have they forgotten that these
"scientists" had been on the secret government's payroll for
YEARS?

Or am I in a parallel universe, some alternate Ozzie & Harriet
reality?

Gary







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             DISPATCH # 81 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

From: ParaScope@AOL.COM
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:24:39 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:02:21 -0500
Subject: DISPATCH # 81 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

DISPATCH # 81 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

 S O M E T H I N G   S T R A N G E   I S   H A P P E N I N G

 2/2/98

 Quote of the Week

 "Competition is a by-product of productive work, not its goal. A creative man
 is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.."

 -- Ayn Rand

 -----------------------

 Rant of the Week: "Magnolifter Power and Fusion"

 Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the
 hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present
 it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, "Jan" instructs us to use a
 remote viewer to...uh, well, let�s see, maybe do something like spy on the
 White House...uh, only go back in time to 1972 to do it. Or something like
 that. Maybe. You decide. Enjoy.


 "It will be the year 2035, when it is more than acknowledged that we have not
 been alone. BUT, you will see that it was "US" that is/was the alien from the
 future. It is the best kept secret.  The Dept. of energy is where you'll find
 the truth. The dept. of atomic energy has had magnolifter power and fusion.

 �The game is far from over. Find yourself a very good remote viewer and you
 will learn what is  so secret. Have your RV do a CRV@whitehouse.gov to 1972.
 October..Ft. Meade also and then have a SRV on newport news VA. ft. eustis.
 their is where a real probe is held.�

 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 Slicker, Better, Faster

 If you haven�t visited the ParaScope web site in the past week, then not only
 are you woefully ill-informed on the latest conspiracies, UFO sightings and
 paranormal news, but you�re also probably completely unaware of our bold new
 redesign. Editor, site manager and overall ScopeMaster Charles Overbeck has
 produced a visually compelling overhaul of the key pages on the site,
 producing a new design that not only looks better but loads faster and is
 easier to navigate. Check out our triple-play of speed, beauty and efficiency
 in the newly redesigned ParaScope web site. (Like you need an excuse to stop
 by
+-+-+-+-+

 Riven: A World Unlike Any You�ve Known

 Soon, it will be time. Prepare to enter a world torn asunder by timeless,
 unresolved conflicts, a world of incomparable beauty, intrigue, and betrayal.
 Prepare to go to Riven. Journey through vast, awe-inspiring landscapes where
 clouds sit nestled in a deep blue sky and the rolling sea waters shimmer from
 bright morning sunlight. But be forewarned, nothing is quite as it seems.
 Reclusive beings and mysterious creatures populate the land. Deep, dark
 secrets lay hidden at every turn. Your utmost powers of observation and reason
 are required to complete a most elusive task. You must let Riven become your
 world. Only then may the truth be discovered and a world be saved.

 Look for the Riven banners and buttons on the ParaScope AOL and web sites, and
 click them to enter Riven, the long-awaited sequel to Myst, and enter a world
 that evokes a sense of awe, wonder, and profound purpose. Prepare to go to
 Riven, a world unlike any you've ever known.


 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 Coming Up Next Week!

 Catch a number of great stories next week on a daily basis on America or all
 at once next Friday on the web site, including daily updates to our Conspiracy
 Newsline and Daily Dose features. Among the articles you'll want to check out:


 The Cryptozoo Part II: Skunk Ape Boogaloo

 Take a hairy, scary tour down the uncharted backroads of evolution in this
 second installment of the all-new Enigma Cryptozoo, ParaScope's museum of mad
 menageries that Linnaean taxonomy forgot. The Sea Monster Aquarium made a big
 first splash, and now Cryptozookeeper D. Trull goes ape with this exhibition
 of mysterious hirsute bipeds from around the globe, including Bigfoot, Yeti,
 Orang-Pendek, the Chinese Wildman, the Yowie, the Skunk Ape, the Minnesota
 Iceman and Oliver the Mutant Chimp. You'll get photos, plaster footprints and
 a detailed comparative discussion of fur odor. Monkey see, monkey do. Is any
 of this monkey business really true?

 ---------------

 The Paper Trail: February 1998

 An all-ne
ified documents and
 government secrecy controversies. Find out why the Secret Service was given a
 "shush" order in response to JFK press leaks; review newly-released Department
 of Energy nuclear weapons test films and documents, including thousands of
 pages on the controversial Hanford plutonium plant; investigate the Bay of
 Pigs invasion's politics of illusion; check out the documents site of the
 month.

 ---------------

 Conspiracy Newsline

 Daily updates on all things conspiratorial. Maryland police round up mass DNA
 samples in hospital rape case; University of Arizona pursues multi-million
 dollar Nike deal despite student protests over human rights issues; Arizona
 candidate bases bid for state office on Phoenix UFO issue; Judge enjoins
 sailor's dismissal in AOL privacy case; more news.

 ...All this, and much, much more!

 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing!

 Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize
 you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway?
 Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe
 yourself from Dispatch:

 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com

 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch

 That's all there is to it!

 Likewise, to unsubscribe:

 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com

 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch

 ----------------------------------------

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 America Online -- keyword: parascope
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 info@parascope.com








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             Some scientists don't shut eyes to the 'unknowable'

From: RSchatte@aol.com [Rebecca Keith]
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:25:38 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:39:05 -0500
Subject: Some scientists don't shut eyes to the 'unknowable'

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/nation/98/02/02/unknowability.2-2.html

11:15 PM 1/31/1998
Discovery
Some scientists don't shut eyes to the 'unknowable'
Researchers attempting to confront the limits to human wisdom

By SARAH BOXER
New York Times

Many scientists are not fond of the idea that there are things in
the universe beyond their grasp.

They do not even like the word "unknowable" and prefer to use the
term "intractable" instead. They consider the idea of
unknowability an admission of defeat or an invitation for an
attack on science.

Recently, though, some scientists have made unknowability their
business. Last summer the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation gave some
$1.5 million in grants to researchers in different fields --
economics, oceanography, historical linguistics, computer
science, population genetics, cell biology, anthropology and the
history of science -- to take stock of what is known, unknown and
unknowable.

"We are all taught what is known, but we rarely learn about what
is not known, and we almost never learn about the unknowable,"
Ralph Gomory, the president of the Sloan Foundation, wrote in
Scientific American in 1995. "Because of such lessons, we grow up
thinking more is known than actually is," and we do not recognize
the unknowables for what they are.

That is why the average gambler always loses to the average
casino owner. "The gambler attempts to predict the individual and
unpredictable spins of the roulette wheel," Gomory wrote, while
"the owner concerns himself with the quite predictable average
outcome."

This is not the first time the depths of unknowability have been
plumbed. As John Barrow, an astronomy professor at the University
of Sussex in England, writes in Impossibility: The Limits of
Science and the Science of Limits (Oxford, coming in April),
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle showed that you cannot
simultaneously know the position and momentum of a subatomic
particle.

Einstein's cosmic speed limit put a cap on the transmission of
information in the universe. And Goedel's theorem proved that any
mathematical system that is powerful enough to be interesting
will contain statements that cannot be proved true or false
inside that system.

More recently, chaos theorists have looked at phenomena like
dripping faucets and long-term weather patterns, and shown how
the tiny inevitable fluctuations in those chaotic systems quickly
snowball in unpredictable ways. Complexity theorists have shown
that complicated systems, like embryos and economies, are more
than the sum of their parts.

Now unknowability itself seems to be coming of age, or at least
coming into some money.

So what is an example of something unknowable? Take the diet of a
given person living in a village in the year 1300. "You may know
on average what his diet was," said Jesse Ausubel, the program
officer of the Sloan Foundation. "But you cannot say what he ate
on Dec. 15, 1300."

The same goes for future climates. You may be able to say what
the average temperature of the Earth's atmosphere will be in
2030, but you cannot know what it will be in New York City.

The study of unknowability in each discipline offers a glimpse of
how different scientists approach the boundaries of their own
fields.

In anthropology, the limits to knowledge can be determined by
practical barriers. If a group of people refuses to perform a
ritual while an outsider is watching, that ritual is, in a sense,
unknowable. In science history, the knowledge about a problem can
be limited by illegible handwriting or some other fluke.

No one will ever know, for example, exactly how Fermat proved his
last theorem because, by his own admission, the margin of his
page was "too narrow to contain" the solution.

In ecology, unknowability is a problem of scale. If, for example,
one wants to see the effect of environmental changes on a forest,
one literally has a choice between looking at the forest and
looking at the trees.

Simon Levin, a biologist at Princeton University who has received
part of the Sloan's unknowability grant, said that when you look
at the climate's effect on the forest, "not every detail of every
tree is important." What the study of unknowability can help
reveal is how much detail you can leave out about individual
trees without compromising your knowledge of the whole forest.

Or say you are starting with a single tree. As Levin points out,
each tree will react differently to environmental changes and to
other trees, and that tree's reaction in turn will have an effect
on the climate. So how much can you extrapolate from that one
tree about the whole forest?

When it comes to unknowability in historical linguistics, time is
the enemy.
To name the unknowable is to name a date beyond which the past is
irretrievably lost.

According to Colin Renfrew, an archaeologist at Cambridge
University who is another recipient of a Sloan grant, the first
direct evidence of language is around 3000 B.C., because that is
when writing began, in the Near East. So if you want to see what
language was like before then, you run up against the boundary of
what is knowable and not knowable.

By comparing contemporary Indo-European languages (including
English, Spanish, French and German), linguists have
reconstructed what they call proto-Indo- European, a precursor to
all Indo-European languages, Renfrew said. That takes us back to
5,000 years ago.

But to push back the date further requires help from other
fields. For example, Renfrew said, we know that languages spread
when populations shift.
That means archaeology should say something about language. And
DNA studies tell us a great deal about how populations are
related, going back some 30,000 years.

The problem is, "it is difficult to correlate data from different
fields," Renfrew said. "There is always the possibility of
dubious interpretations," which gets more and more likely the
further back in time you go. That's why most linguists accept
that we can see back at least 5,000 years, but few think we can
detect the echoes of a hypothetical first language some 80,000
years ago.








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                Re: PROJECT 1947: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:13:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:01:06 -0500
Subject: Re: PROJECT 1947: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs


>From: DRudiak@aol.com
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:36:34 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: PROJECT 1947: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:02:20 -0500
>>Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:59:11 -0500
>>Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs

>>On another matter, regarding the Air defense Command and radar:
>>I have been trying to locate records related to the radar
>>inspired national alert on December 6, 1950 at about 10:30 AM
>.>when radar picked up a number of objects approaching the>
>>northeastern United States.  I have a chapter on this in my book
>>THE UFO-FBI CONNECTION because two days later, according to a
>>message found in the FBI file, the counter-intelligence corps was
>>put on immediate high alert for any information related to flying
>>saucers (Dec. 8). There appear to be NO RECORDS OF THIS EVENT in
>>the files of the Secretary of Defense, other than one document
>>which provides a few details that could only have come from other
.>documents .

>>Furthermore, it is clear that the SECDEF office was involved in
>>this event which resulted in planes being scrambled AND THE
>>PRESIDENT AND SECRETARY OF STATE
>>BEING ALERTED!.

>>Could this be a real radar detection of a group of UFOs that was
>>effectively covered up by the defense department?

>Hard to know.  Truman comments briefly about this event in his
>memoirs (Chapt.25, Vol. II)
>So on Dec. 6, there were no doubt fears of a surprise Soviet air
>attack. Truman wrote:

<SNIP valuable comments about war jitters regarding the Korean war
and the possibilty of direct Russian attack, and the implications
of "the bomb.">

Truman wrote in his memoirs of the Dec 6 alert:

"Shortly before we went into that morning meeting, Under
Secretary Lovett called from the Pentagon, reporting that the
radar screens of some air defense installations in the Far North
were reporting large formations of unidentified planes
approaching.  Fighter planes were sent up to reconnoiter and
alerts were flashed to air centers in New England and beyond.
But about an hour later -- while I was meeting with Attlee --
Lovett notified me that the report had been in error.  Some
unusual disturbance in the Arctic atmosphere had thrown the radar
off."

If the Dec. 6 event was indeed caused by an "atmospheric
disturbance," then why the CIC high alert two days later for any
information on flying saucers?

Was Truman really told it was atmospheric, or was he really told
that it wasn't Soviet bombers (the primary concern), but flying
saucers instead?  It's impossible to know from the scant
informaton that we have.

True it is: we don't have enough information. But what there is
paints a picture of confusion:

(a)Truman, in his memoirs, says Lovett (Under Sec of Def.
under George Marshal, SECDEF) told him it was atmospheric
disturbance  (this also appears in th minutes of the meeting)

(b) Secretary of State Den Acheson was told of the alert by Lovett
at about 10:30 AM.  Acheson wrote:"Our early warning radar in
Canda had picked up formations of unidentified objects,
presumably aircraft, headed on a southeast course that would
bring them over Washington in two or three hours."

An hour later, during which time Acheson went to the White House,
"Lovett told us the unidentified objects had disappeared.  His
guess was that they had been geese."

(c)International News Service carried a report of the event.
After reporting on the alert and scramble. INS wrote,
"Later a spokesman for the Air Force stated that interceptor
aircraft had been dispatched and that te object in qestion had
been identified shortly thereafter as a North American C-47
which was approaching the continent from Goose Bay..."

(d) A memorandum written by AF Col. Charles Winkle
on dec 6 (afternoon?) entitled "air alert 1030 hours" says
that the Continental Air Command Air Defense Controller
...at 1030 hours...(reported) a number of unidentified aircraft..
approaching the northeast ....and there was no reason to
believe they were friendly."  At 1040 hours the information
wa "further amplified" by radar contact which showed
40 aircraft in flight at 32,000 feet near Limestone, Maine.

The alert procedure went into affect and the President was
notified.  At 11:04 hours the radar track had "faded out and it
appeared that the flight as originally identified is a friendly
flight."

"Atmospheric? Geese? One C-47? A friendly flight?
Wait a minute.  You can bet that the initial 1030 detection was
by radar, probably at a distance of about 200 miles (typical for
search radar even in those days).   Assuming the detection was
made by "lashup" radar at Limestone, Maine, then if there were 40
"aircraft" in the vicinity of Limestone only 10 minutes later
they must hav traveled nearly 200 miles in 10 minutes.... or
nearly 600 mph.... FAST for those days.

Also, you can bet that contact signals were repeatedly sent from
the ground to these aircraft. Had they been friendly they would
have responded.  They certainly weren't Russian bombers.... so
WHAT WERE THEY?

>Or maybe something else was happening to trigger the Dec. 8
>alert.  Dec. 6 is also the day of the rumored flying saucer crash
>in northern Mexico with retrieval by the U.S. military.

NOTE:  This is the "Col Willingham" report made first in  the
late 1970's.   HOwever, Willingham never specified said Dec. 6.

This was a date invented by someone (Todd Zechel? Kevin Randle?).
  Willingham only said 1948-49, perhaps 1950.   HE couldn' pin
down a date.   This is being checked on.

> A Blue
>Book unknown case also occurred that day in Fort Meyer, Florida
>where a 75 foot saucer was seen through binoculars by a former
>aircraft purchasing agent.  Ruppelt wrote of the first
>UFO/radiation detection case at Los Alamos in Dec. 1950.   From
>Dec. 14-20, FBI memos mention three more UFO reports  by radar
>operators and employees at Oak Ridge.  Two jet intercepts were
>attempted and on 12/14, "a group of objects blanketed the Radar
>Scopes..." for 3 hours.   These incidents had been preceded by a
>flurry of 15 such UFO reports back in Oct. over Oak Ridge, also
i>nvestigated by the FBI.  The one that occurred on Oct. 23 is
>also mentioned by Ruppelt in his UFO radiation chapter.  One FBI
>memo stated "geiger counters in the vicinity [had] unexplainable
>readings at about this time."

>For all we know, this may only represent a fraction of UFO
>activity at the time.  The UFOs over our atomic installations
>like Los Alamos and Oak Ridge must have been the most alarming.
>Maybe the Dec. 6 incident really was a false alarm, but the
>military in conjunction with the other UFO incidents were
>concerned that we might not be able to distinguish a genuine
>Soviet attack from the UFOs that were flying around.  Perhaps
>this triggered the alert on Dec. 8 for any additional information
>on the UFOs.  It could have been fears of an accidental nuclear
>war with the Soviets at the height of the Korean War.>

>David Rudiak<

Yes, there were a lot of Oak Ridge sightings.... reported to the
Atomic Energy Commission, many involving security guards.   This
is all in a chapter in my FBI book because these were also
reported to the FBI.

Incidently, the Oak Ridge Security people did not believe the Air
Force blanket explanations of their sightings.
No surprise there!







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                         Interview with Dan Sherman

From: georgina@easynet.co.uk [Georgina Bruni]
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 03:32:56 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:27:42 -0500
Subject: Interview with Dan Sherman

Interview with Dan Sherman

Project Preserve Destiny - Alien Implants

Dan Sherman went into the United States Air Force like most other
American guys, extremely proud to serve his country and its well
trained sophisticated military.  During his twelve years in
service he was recognised for heroism, and was decorated with the
AF Commendation Medal, as well as the AFAchievement Medal with
two oakleaf clusters. He also received  the Outstanding Unit
Award with three oakleafclusters and was honoured for service in
the Persian Gulf war.

Everything appeared to be going well for Sergeant Sherman until
he was involuntarily recruited into a special programme called
"Project Preserve Destiny" (PPD), an ABOVE BLACK programme which
would eventually change his life and result in him leaving the
USAF for which he was so dedicated.

Sergeant Sherman began his training for (PPD) at the National
Security Agency (NSA) whilst at the same time training for a
career in ELINT, a highly sensitive project. The ELINT training,
although a genuine programme, was to act as a cover for his
participation in "Project Preserve Destiny".

Arriving at the NSA he was told the following startling news by
an Air Force Captain. "To put it bluntly, Sergeant Sherman, in
the summer of 1960 your mother was visited by what the world
commonly refers to as aliens. Random tests were being conducted
on the general populace at the time to determine compatibility."
The Captain explained that whilst he (Sherman) was still in his
mother's womb, he had been implanted to enable him to make
contact with aliens through "intuitive communications". He was
also told that the US government had been in contact with aliens
since 1947.  Needless to say, Sherman was shocked, but relieved
to hear that he was 100% human and not part alien. So began three
years with the (PPD) programme and his communication with an
alien species.

Sherman's story is as fascinating as they come, and one can't
help but sit back in amazement as you learn what allegedly are
the facts of a covert operation so secret it goes even beyond the
"Black Projects", and is referred to as "Grey Matter" or "Slant
Missions".  According to Sherman, the alien cover-up is buried
deep within the "Onion Effect" - so many layers, and with every
alien project - there is a black project hiding it.  After he
began receiving disturbing abduction data, realising that alien
abductions were still ongoing, he decided to take drastic
measures to obtain a discharge from the USAF and go public in the
hopes that other insiders will follow in his footsteps.

Exclusive Interview with Dan Sherman
 - Georgina Bruni for Sightings Magazine

GB: Mr Sherman thank you for taking the time to do this
interview.  You are the author of  "ABOVE BLACK - Project
Preserve Destiny" and I understand the book is about your
involvement in a Air Force/Government covert operation relating
to an alien (ET) project. Can you offer some details about your
work in this project and what it entailed?

DS: I served as an Intuitive Communicator for the National
Security Agency while stationed at two separate locations as a
member of the US Air Force intelligence community.  My job was to
maintain intuitive communications with my alien contact and
report the results of each contact.  My intuitive abilities were
a result of what is referred to in grey circles as "genetic
management", procedures conducted while I was still in the womb.

GB: You claim that whilst in your mother's womb you were given
certain abilities which allowed you to communicate with ET's. Can
you explain this, and how did your superiors know that you had
this ability which resulted in you being selected for the
project?

DS:. As it was explained to me, Project Preserve Destiny began in
1960.  This was/is a project with the goal of genetically
manipulating human offspring so they would have the ability to
communicate with this alien species.  It is a joint effort
(alien/human) in cooperation with one another.  I am unclear as
to the real reasons for this cooperation.  I was told it was to
rovide an ability to carry on high level communications during an
impending electromagnetic communication outage on a worldwide
basis subsequent to a major catastrophe in the future.

GB: You mentioned that the ET's were unemotional.  Do you mean
that they are not ruled by emotions like we appear to be?

DS: Yes.  I have touched on this in the book, and many people
have written since the book came out wanting to know more about
this.  Our communications were extremely vibrant, nothing like
vocal language.  During the communication I could always sense
peripheral things surrounding the communication.  This is very
difficult to explain.  I sensed a great deal of emotion but not
the demonstrative type we are all so familiar with as humans.

GB: I understand that you haven't actually met an ET in physical
form, but do you know what the ETs look like?

DS:  No, I have never physically seen one.  My idea of what they
look like is the same as everyone else's... based on the popular
culture icon of the big head, big eyes and pointed chin.

GB: During the time you were with "Project Preserve Destiny" did
you ever  hear of any British or European involvement in the
UFO/Alien cover-up?

DS: During our communications I attempted to bring up the subject
of other nations and their involvement.  I cannot remember the
exact moment I came to this realisation but my impression over
time was that there were other nations involved as well.  I'm not
sure the criteria for this involvement but my thoughts are that
the nations involved are close allies of the US. Australia, UK,
Canada and perhaps Japan in a limited way.  I also believe this
based on other information I know not directly related to PPD but
crucial to the overall picture nonetheless.

GB: I believe you held some top security clearances, can you name
some of these?

DS: The security clearances I held all related to my work with
Black projects which I am not at liberty to expound upon.  In
reading my book you will realize how much of a tightrope I am
walking relating to the other missions (highly classified, and
rightfully so) and how I have tried to stay away from those
topics. My clearances had nothing to do with PPD.  In order to
hide the existence of PPD they cloak it with other projects of
which are highly classified unto themselves... the Black ones.
Hence the name "Above Black."  An obvious play on words a.k.a.
Timothy Good's book "Above Top Secret."

GB: Why did you leave the project and the Air Force?

DS: This is a question that leads to a myriad of answers.  The
straw that broke the camel's back, however, surrounded the
communications that I had started to receive from my second alien
contact.  The comms appeared to be abduction data.  It was
unsettling to me to have to report things such as "Potentiality
for Recall" and "Residual Pain Levels."  I asked to be relieved
of my duties regarding PPD, was told no, in no uncertain terms,
which led to my retaliation by resorting to drastic measures in
attempting to receive a discharge.  This is described in more
depth in the book.

GB: Many are convinced that world governments are releasing
information through various inside sources: have you been briefed
in any way to play a part in  this, or was the choice to go
public wholly your own, and if so, why?

DS: This may be true.  Disinformation is very important when
attempting to hide the truth.  However, in my case, there are a
few people in the inner circles of the NSA, NRO and USAF that are
not happy.  My experience is true and untainted with
disinformation.  I have decided to tell for many reasons one of
them being, I am curious to know more that what was told to me.
If I come forward, then others may as well.  Sooner of later,
someone will be able to put the pieces of the puzzle together and
get a much clearer picture of what is going on.  My part of the
puzzle is small compared to what is left unseen and unexplored.

GB: Do you think that the leaders, i.e. Clinton, Blair, are
familiar with the UFO/ET cover-up or are they being kept out of
the loop?

DS: I don't believe the current leadership in either country
knows the full story.  Perhaps none of it.  They are not the
keepers of the grey flame but I don't know exactly who is.  I
think the last world leader that knew all of it or most all of it
was President Truman. I believe Reagan and Thatcher knew
something. Again, I don't know how much though.

GB: In your opinion, is there is need for concern over the alien
situation, and is there an alien presence here on Earth?

DS: From my experiences, I would trust my alien contact more than
the human commanders I was assigned.  When I communicated with my
alien contacts, I could sense no dishonesty or distrust.  I have
no fear of them whatsoever. However, are there other species
hanging around that we should not trust?  This I don't know.  I
don't believe there are terrestrial based aliens present, no.

GB: Finally, how are you coping - having come out into the open?
Are you being harassed by any of the departments you worked for,
UFO skeptics or others?

DS: No. I have not been harassed.  Everything is going as planned
so far.  I didn't think they would come after me if I stuck to
the grey aspect of my job.  If they can't hang me for revealing
Black information they will not do anything.  It's a rock and
hard place for them.  If they arrest me for revealing what I know
about PPD then they are validating what I am saying.  As long as
I walk the tightrope as well as I have been doing, I should be
fine.  It's interesting to note that I have received much mail
since going public and an inordinate amount of it has arrived
open.  Some of it has even been sliced open from the top.  This
could be mere coincidence, but in my world you think of these
things.

Dan Sherman's book, ABOVE BLACK , an insider account of alien
contact and government cover-up, is an excellent read.
Obtainable from
One Team Publishing,
PO Box 2111, Tualatin,
OR 97062. USA.

Or you can order direct by calling + 619-824-1328.
His website can be reached at <www.aboveblack.com>

Georgina Bruni

====================================================








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   Feb > Feb 3

                 Blind Methodology article to appear in JSE

From: RSchatte@aol.com [Rebecca Keith]
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:28:06 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:40:34 -0500
Subject: Blind Methodology article to appear in JSE

>From The Houston Chronicle February 2, 1998

Scientists have trouble keeping their eyes shut

Review issued on 'blind' methodology of research
by Robert Matthews
New Scientist

Parapsychology, widely dismissed as a sloppy pseudoscience, makes
far more use of rigorous experimental methods than other
scientific disciplines, according to a study of the prevalence of
"blind" methodology in research.

Blind techniques were originally designed to stop investigators
in clinical trials from affecting the outcome of their
experiments. Blinding prevents them from knowing whether a
patient has been given the drug or a placebo and from modifying
their observations accordingly. but scientists in other fields
face a similar temptation to tweak their data, whether
deliberately or subconsciously.

Yet according to an analysis of over 1,000 papers, most
researchers seem to believe that they are immune to such foibles.
The problem is most acute in the "hard" sciences of physics and
chemistry, where not one paper surveyed used blind methods.

Medicine also scored badly. The surveyed papers were published in
leading journals such as Nature, the Journal of the American
Chemical Society, Cell and the Journal of Applied Physics. By far
the highest proportion of papers with blind methods appeared in
journals favored by parapsychologists -- the Journal of the
Society for Psychical Research and the Journal of
Parapsychology.

The study, due to appear in the Journal of Scientific
Exploration, comes from Rupert Sheldrake, the London-based
biologist who has become a controversial figure for his
unorthodox scientific beliefs and interest in "fringe" areas.

"Most hard scientists take it for granted that blind techniques
are unnecessary in their own field," Sheldrake says.
"Parapsychologists, on the other hand, have been constantly
subjected to intense scrutiny by skeptics, and this has made them
more rigorous."

Physicists and chemists show no signs of tightening up their
methods, Sheldrake has found. In a survey of 23 British
university physics and chemistry departments, he found only one
that taught its students even the basic techniques involved.

"One chemist summed up his attitude to blind methods by saying
science was hard enough as it is, without making it worse by not
knowing what you're working on," Sheldrake says.

Tom Fearn, an expert on experimental design at University College
in London, says physicists and chemists may have become
complacent.

"There is this belief that blind methods are only needed where
the subject of the experiment should not know what is happening,
or where it's hard to measure the quantity you're interested in
objectivity," he says.










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                             Re: Help needed...

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:50:59 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:38:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Help needed...


>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:45:48 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Help needed

>Hi everyone,

>Some time ago and I am pretty sure it was on this list
>there was a post about NASA having trouble getting
>R&D funding for an engine for their proposed space plane.

>As I recall it, the Air Force said something like "No problem,
>you can use ours."  This blew everybody at NASA away because
>it revealed that the Air Force already had such an engine,
>and maybe even such a plane.

>I can't find that exchange now, and I wonder if anyone
>here recalls it or saved it.


Bob,

I don't remember that exchange, but maybe this helps. I happen to
be writing an article on commercial space travel.

The space plane you probably refer to is the X-33, an
experimental plane that is now under construction. First flight
due somewhere next year.

The X-33 uses a so called aerospike engine, a highly efficient
engine design that is one of the technologies used to make this
plane Single Stage To Orbit.

The design principles are not new. Rocketdyne has been
experimenting with the technology since the 1960s. In the
articles I read from the New Scientist, Air International and
from the web sites of Lockheed, NASA and Aviation Week, there is
no mention that the engine design is owned by the USAF. The
consensus seems to be that the original funding was provided by a
government organization ($ 500 mln), but the identity is not
provided. Of course, this could be the USAF.
Given that the X-33 engine is a Rocketdyne engine, the design
seems to be owned by Rocketdyne.

The X-33 is the precusor to the Lockheed Venture Star, the
supposed successor to the Space Shuttle. It will be operated by
Lockheed and operational in 2005, hopefully.

Btw. research for my article shows that the worldwide
expenditures on commercial space travel will surpass official
government spending shortly. Around 2005 commercial expenditures
will be around $ 70 bn, twice as much as official government
spending and twice as much as the total acknowledged spending on
black budget projects.


            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
             \______________________________________/








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               Information from the A.NZ. National UFO Hotline

From: "ippoz" <ippoz@eisa.net.au> [Ross Dowe]
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:36:05 +1100
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:15:26 -0500
Subject: Information from the A.NZ. National UFO Hotline

Information from the A.NZ. National UFO Hotline:

"Devenport 11.55pm 02-02-98 Tasmania. Australia".
:"Respondents report sighting two bright white triangular
objects ripping through the night sky over Devenport
Tasmania. @ 11.55pm..

The first object sped passed at an incredible speed,
at a low altitude on a westerly heading.

A few seconds later, another white triangular object flew past
on the same course and bearing, however this object appeared
to have a bright green light or glow following it.

The objects appeared to be identical in shape and colour,
there was no sound.

The objects were a definite right angle triangle shape,
"they appeared to be like the broad swept back wing of a
stealth or delta winged American spy craft" Said respondents".

: Devenport 11.55pm 02-02-98 Tasmania. Australia.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
IPP is now taking calls from interested parties
from the USA relating to our new American
World Radio monitoirng cetntre.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Aust. direct  0416 305 889

Regards
Ross Dowe (c)98
ippoz@eisa.net.au
Ph: 0900 58 367 NZ
Ph 190 224 3529 Au
PH 0416 305 889 Pacific








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                            Re: Underground Bases

From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:18:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:19:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Underground Bases


> From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 17:20:57 EST
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Underground Bases

> In a message dated 98-01-31 08:26:49 EST, updates@globalserve.net
> writes:


> >  From: Psdx1@aol.com [Phil Danielson]
> >  Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:27:52 EST
> >  To: updates@globalserve.net
> >  Subject: underground bases


> >  Alien underground bases are just that. They are in control of the
> >  bases and have their own agenda.

> >  No one has quite figured out what yet. Also involved are military
> >  and intelligence personel. There is a list of 125 confirmed
> >  underground bases out there, with more to be added when
> >  confirmed.

> Phil,

> Where exactly is this alleged list of 125 confirmed undergound
> bases?

> Cheers,
> Robert


How in the world does one convert "underground bases" of which
there are many, partly because it is a good place to hide
activities from spy satellites and from the effcts of atomic
bombs, to ALIEN underground bases????

That is a very big stretch.

Stan Friedman












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                   'Shoebox Greetings Presents the Grays'

From: Steven Feldman <AR402004@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 15:48:53 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:30:01 -0500
Subject: 'Shoebox Greetings Presents the Grays'


Ack!  I just browsed the Shoebox Greetings website to try to get
a coffee mug, and found out that Shoebox (a division of Hallmark)
has a line of greeting cards called "The Grays"!  Additionally,
the cartoonist responsible has created a number of "adventures"
on this site -- complete with accompanying color illustrations --
among them, a Christmas story, a Valentine's Day Story, and an
eight-chapter Summer Vacation story.  Here is the opening
sentence from the Christmas story:

 "'Twas the night before Christmas and all through the ship, not a
  creature was stirring except for the occasional abducted cow."

Yep, that was a real knee-slapper.  And here's the copy of one of
the actual cards they have for sale (which, admittedly, *is*
somewhat humorous):

Cover:

           There are worse
         things than turning
          another year older

Inside text:

     You could have three brains
     and have that macarena song
      going through all of them.


Interested?  The URL is:

http://www.shoebox.com/grays/adventures.asp


Steven Feldman ^ ^ ^ SUBSCRIBED TO: Space Music, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^  ________ ^ ^
33 Brook St #3 ^ ^ ^ Tadream, CNI News, P.E.E.R. ^ ^ ^ __---        ---_
Brookline Mass ^ ^ ^ Perspectives, The MUFON UFO ^ ^  -             _   \
02146-6913 USA ^ ^ ^ Journal, the Nausicaa list, ^ ^ |           /_/ \  |
(617) 232-3876 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ and Nutrition News. ^ ^_-      __/_// __ |/
BITNET: ar402004@brownvm ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ -     (|/ '()` <()/ ^
INTERNET: ar402004@brownvm.brown.edu ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^  \_   O        .> | ^
HAYAO MIYAZAKI DISCUSSION GROUP: nausicaa@brownvm  ^  /--_/  -__ -- /  ^
<*> Address for subscribing: listserv@brownvm <*>  ^ ^ ^ ^ ^   ---   ^ ^








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                      PEER FORUM: Bentwaters-Woodbridge

From: Steven Feldman <AR402004@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 19:46:28 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:26:31 -0500
Subject: PEER FORUM: Bentwaters-Woodbridge


Dear CNI NEWS Editor,

I really should have told you about this before the latest issue
of CNI NEWS came out, but -- hey -- you can put it on your
website, right?

I am on P.E.E.R.'s mailing list, because I live near them.
Recently, I received a flyer for . . .


                     FEBRUARY 1998 PEER FORUM:

                       "WHO OWNS THE TRUTH?"
         THE BENTWATERS-WOODBRIDGE INCIDENT AS A CASE STUDY

            A Muli-Media Presentation and Discussion by
                           Peter Robbins
               with John E. Mack, M.D. as Discussant

                    Wednesday February 11, 1998
      7:00 - 9:00 pm, Macht Auditorium, The Cambridge Hospital
                     Suggested Donation of $8



At the bottom of the flyer, it says, "Please call (617) 497-2667,
ext. 920 to RSVP or to ask for directions and/or a list of local
accomodations.  Limited parking is available for $2 in the
hospital parking lot, and free parking is available on Camridge
and Beacon Streets."

Now you know.  Sorry I wasn't more prompt with this information.


Steven Feldman ^ ^ ^ SUBSCRIBED TO: Space Music, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^  ________ ^ ^
33 Brook St #3 ^ ^ ^ Tadream, CNI News, P.E.E.R. ^ ^ ^ __---        ---_
Brookline Mass ^ ^ ^ Perspectives, The MUFON UFO ^ ^  -             _   \
02146-6913 USA ^ ^ ^ Journal, the Nausicaa list, ^ ^ |           /_/ \  |
(617) 232-3876 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ and Nutrition News. ^ ^_-      __/_// __ |/
BITNET: ar402004@brownvm ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ -     (|/ '()` <()/ ^
INTERNET: ar402004@brownvm.brown.edu ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^  \_   O        .> | ^
HAYAO MIYAZAKI DISCUSSION GROUP: nausicaa@brownvm  ^  /--_/  -__ -- /  ^
<*> Address for subscribing: listserv@brownvm <*>  ^ ^ ^ ^ ^   ---   ^ ^








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                         The Real David Morehouse??

From: "Mark Isganitis" <isganim@enter.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:26:50 4
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:23:44 -0500
Subject: The Real David Morehouse??

Hi!

I came across this post on another mail service I belong to
and I thought it might be interesting reading for some of
the folks out there.

I have no knowledge of the accuracy of the information
contained in this post, and cannot represent it as completely
true or factual.  However it may explain some things.


------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

From: "Kasten, Kathy" <KKASTEN@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu>
To: "MINDCONTROL-L@mail.sonic.net" <MINDCONTROL-L@mail.sonic.net>
Subject: [MC] The Real David Morehouse??
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 97 12:46:00 PST


Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America's Psychic Spies
By Jim Schnabel; Dell Books, 1997 (July??)

Pages 350-351, Chapter 22 "The Haunted House"

"There was one member of the unit who seemed almost to personify
the fate of the program.  He was a thirty-four-year-old Army
captain, David Morehouse, and he arrived in the summer of 1988.
Though Morehouse had never seen combat, he had commanded a Ranger
company and had later, briefly, been a member of a secret
special-operations squad known as Intelligence Support Activity
(ISA).  Morehouse was intelligent, a smooth talker, and his
career seemed to be on a fast track.  Even taking into account
the enormous exaggerations that go into military performance
reports, it was clear from Morehouse's that he was a cut above
most officers.

"Morehouse heard about the remote-viewing unit while he was at
ISA.  He had no history of psychic experiences, but he had a
casual interest in the paranormal, and the idea of being
transformed from an ordinary Army officer into a shaman-spy
attracted him, as it had so many others.  Paul Smith, charged
with evaluating potential recruits, thought Morehouse - who like
Smith was a Mormon - would make a good candidate.

"After arriving at the unit and training with Smith and Dames and
Lyn Buchanan, Morehouse began to participate in DT-S's day-to-day
activities.
 He seemed reasonably enthusiastic about remote viewing-he wanted
to be a Jedi knight like the rest of them-and there were
occasions when it seemed that he did have some talent.  As time
went by, however, and DT-S was increasingly separated from
operational military reality, Morehouse responded much the way
the others did: by finding other things to do.  He had a small
home-improvement business, House Tech, that he was already
running on the side; after a few months at Fort Meade, he began
to spend most of his time attending to it.  He would get in late,
and leave early, and even while he was at the office, he often
seemed to the others to be preoccupied with his House Tech
paperwork.  Eventually he began turning up at the office only one
or two days per week.

Pages 383-386
"Former Stubblebine aide John Alexander, now retired from the
Army and working on 'non-lethal weapons' programs at Los Alamos,
co-wrote a successful book in 1992, 'The Warrior's Edge' (KK's
comments: Morehouse's 'The Psychic Warrior', a ripped off of
Alexander's book - and if Alexander told half of what he knew, it
would be quite probably 10 times what Morehouse knew), about the
alternative world and soldiering.  Ed Dames eventually decided he
could do at least as well with a book on remote viewing.  Ingo
Swann hooked him up with a literary agent he knew, Sandra Martin.
 Dave Morehouse, who had been discussing the remote-viewing
program with investigative journalist Dale Van Atta since 1989,
was also invited to join the project.

"Dames and Morehouse worked on the book for a while, but they
didn't get far, and eventually agreed to turn over the writing to
Jim Marrs, a former Texas newspaper reporter who had written
'Crossfire'-a Kennedy assassination conspiracy book that had been
one of the inspirations for Oliver Stone's film 'JFK.'  Marrs
wrote a proposal for an expose of the remote-viewing program, and
sold it to Harmony Books (an imprint of Crown Publishing) for a
$100,000 advance, which he split with Dames and Morehouse.

"Remarkably, Morehouse was still in uniform at this point, as a
training officer with the 82d Airborne Division at Fort Bragg,
North Carolina.  He seemed to believe that he could continue his
military career even as he benefitted financially from exposing a
classified program.  When the deal with Harmony came through
(Morehouse heard about it over his field phone, while on
exercises in North Carolina) he used his share of the advance to
lease a Mercedes.  Through Sandra Martin, he began negotiating
with NBC for a movie deal based on his experiences as a military
psychic.

"Eventually, Morehouse's apparent love of dangerous situations
caught up with him.  In early 1994, an irate girlfriend filed a
complaint with Fort Bragg authorities, and Morehouse was charged
with a number of offenses against the military code, including
adultery, sodomy, the theft of an Army computer, and above all,
conduct unbecoming an officer.  In initial statements to Fort
Brad authorities, the woman mentioned that Morehouse had bragged
about his highly classified work at DT-S and other units, had
claimed that he could psychically spy on her at will, and had
told her about the book he was writing with his friend Ed Dames.
Mention of the book deal-which appeared to involve a deliberate
disclosure of classified information-set off further
investigations of Morehouse by INSCOM, the Army Criminal
Investigative Service.  Morehouse now faced a likely expulsion
from the Army, and a possible jail sentence.

"A few days after Fort Bragg authorities had decided to send
Morehouse to a full court-martial, Morehouse checked into Walter
Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C.  He gave the
impression that he was having visions of angels, and was
depressed and suicidal.  He was no longer competent to stand
trial, his lawyers now contended.  Remote viewing had
destabilized him, and now he had gone over the edge.  Morehouse
and Sandra Martin now also began to claim to friends that shadowy
government operatives were harassing them, trying to shut them
up.  In one case, Martin told me, some Pentagon operative had
tried to intimidate her on the New York subway, standing over her
and warning her 'to stop representing Dave.'

"The remote-viewing community was generally skeptical about all
these stories, but by the time Morehouse came out of the
hospital, months later, he had what appeared to be a powerful
defense strategy in place:  The court-martial would become an
investigation and exposure not of his wrongdoings at Fort Braff,
but of the classified, politically embarrassing remote-viewing
program.  A lot of dirty government laundry was going to be
aired.

"As Morehouse's lawyers began to request special clearances to
look into the remote-viewing program, and to interview former
participants, the Army classified the proceedings, and attempted
to keep them from reaching a trial.  Within a few months, Fort
Bragg authorities had struck a deal with Morehouse.  In lieu of a
trial on the Fort Braff misconduct charges, he resigned from the
Army with an 'other than honorable' discharge that left him
neither pension or benefits.  He officially separated from the
Army in January 1995, and went to work for Sandra Martin in New
York.

"Ed Dames was now living in Beverly Hills with his girlfriend,
the estranged wife of the actor Brad Dourif.  After seeing a
draft of the Jim Marrs book in the spring of 1995, Dames
complained that it was heavily  fictionalized, and focussed too
much on Morehouse.  Harmony eventually cancelled the book.

"Morehouse, undaunted, started to write his own book, 'Psychic
Warrior,' and by the fall of 1995 he had sold it to St. Martin's
Press.  Morehouse now alleged that he had developed psychic
powers after being hit on his helmet by a bullet while on a
training exercise in Jordan in 1987.  He had then been asked to
join DT-S, where he had performed various impressive paranormal
feats.  In early November 1995, Morehouse and a new agent pitched
this tale to Hollywood film studios.  Several made bids,
including Oliver Stone, who narrowly lost out to Interscope
Communications.  According to 'Variety', Interscope agreed to pay
Morehouse $300,000, plus another half million or so when the film
was made.  Morehouse began working on the book, the screenplay,
and a Saturday morning children's cartoon show for
Hanna-Barbera-involving a team of superheroes who use psi and
other non-lethal powers to combat their foes."

(KK's comments: all this from a man who traded off classified
 secrets while in the military.  Weren't people shot for treason
 once upon a time?)

KK
kkasten@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu

--------------------------------------------------------------

Hope you enjoyed this story.

Mark Isganitis
isganim@enter.net








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                            Re: Underground Bases

From: Psdx1@aol.com [Phil Danielson]
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:01:29 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:14:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Underground Bases

This is where the list of underground bases are
http://www.budget.net/~sharbob/undbases.htm

Phil







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                            Re: Underground Base

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 04:09:15 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:07:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Underground Base

>From: Psdx1@aol.com [Phil Danielson]
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:01:29 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Underground Bases

>This is where the list of underground bases are
>http://www.budget.net/~sharbob/undbases.htm

>Phil



I just checked it. Hmm, don't know. Most of the "bases" had no
additional information. I saw some errors regarding the
facilities I recognized:

Sandia Base is in reality Sandia National Laboratories.
Lawrence Livermore International Laboratory is L.L. National
Laboratories. These facilities have web sites with their
real names. Meriwith Hill in England is Menwith Hill.

Not really a fact checker it seems, this Sharbob. Has anyone
read Tim Good's book yet? Hope it's better done than this.





            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
             \______________________________________/








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                             The CAUS Initiative

From: UFOLAWYER1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:58:59 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:13:53 -0500
Subject: The CAUS Initiative

CITIZENS AGAINST UFO SECRECY (CAUS) INITIATIVE

In the spirit of promoting and encouraging an end to any and all
secrecy relating to extraterrestrial contact with this planet;
and in support of the public's right to know this information,
CITIZENS AGAINST UFO SECRECY (CAUS) hereby formally offers pro
bono legal assistance and representation, under the following
terms and condition:

1. CAUS attorney Peter A. Gersten will, without cost or
obligation to the person, enter into an attorney-client
relationship* with any former or active military officer or
government official who possesses any or all of the following
evidence of an extraterrestrial event:

a. eye-witness testimony;
b. physical evidence, including artifacts, photographs or film;
c. official government documents, whether classified or
   declassified;
d. any other admissible, relevant and genuine evidence which
   tends to confirm or corroborate such event.

*  Inherent in said relationship is the client privilege which
affords the client, as a matter of law, the security that
anything discussed must remain confidential unless consented to
by the client.

2. The client must consent to waive the privilege of
confidentiality and allow CAUS to file a Freedom of Act (FOIA)
request to the appropriate agency, basing its request on the
information supplied by the client. At no time will the source of
the information be revealed. *

*  CAUS and Mr. Gersten have no ethical, professional or moral
problem with keeping the name of the client confidential, thereby
respecting the client's privacy.

3. If a subsequent FOIA lawsuit is necessary and the client so
agrees, Mr. Gersten will submit all necessary affidavits and
affirmations on 'information and belief,' thereby continuing to
respect the confidentiality of the client.

4. If it becomes necessary for the client to testify,

*  Mr. Gersten will first petition the court and US Attorneys
Office for immunity citing the client's reluctance for fear of
reprisals.

*  The client always controls the proceedings and can withdraw at
anytime with his privacy intact.

The CAUS INITIATIVE affords every witness the utmost
confidentiality while resolving an obstacle to important
disclosures.

Where there is secrecy there is no truth.  Without truth there
can be no justice.
                   And without justice there can be no freedom.

Join the CAUS. E-mail UFOLAWYER1@aol.com









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               Re: Project 1947: DAY/NIGHT - More *U* Findings

From: "Larry Hatch" <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:30:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:59:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Project 1947: DAY/NIGHT - More *U* Findings

>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:23:46 -0800 (PST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: Project 1947: DAY/NIGHT - More *U* Findings


>>>>[....]

>>>> I have no ready explanation for the steady drop
>>>> in the ratio of day sightings since 1940, and
>>>> invite discussion.

> Alright, it's time to mention the possible explanation that
> remains unspoken until now.  Since, according to a recent
> poll, more Americans think that UFO aliens are more
> intelligent than we are, by and large, than those who think
> they're less intelligent, the following explanation needs to
> be included:

> It's in accordance with the aliens' own planning.
> The aliens in charge wished to get us up to speed
> on [their] craft ..relatively quickly -- to the point where
> some 50% of the population would realize it was
> occurring for real.  So they could at first permit a lot
> of daytime sightings in so doing.
> But they didn't wish to suddenly escalate that up to
> 80 or 90%, because that would quickly snowball to
> 100% whereupon even science, the open government
> and the conservative news media would then realize
> the alien presence.  .. extreme panic and chaos ..
> would ...  suddenly be upon us.

> Instead the aliens wished to extend the 50% belief
> level for a couple generations .. to get used to it all,
> discuss it, hash it out, etc.,  [ snip ]

> ..  by then our sciences, especially astronomy, would
> have advanced enough to allow the idea of habitable
> alien planets within the galaxy/universe to become
> plausible and commonplace  ..  they couldn't continue
> with so many daytime sightings.

<big snip>

> ..  nighttime [sightings] would keep the subject in
> people's minds without causing the belief level to soar
> past 50%.

<snip>

> Why leave alien intelligence out of the picture?
>   Jim Deardorff

Jim:  I certainly did not intend to leave alien intelligence
out of the picture, and your interpretation is as good as
any I have heard ..  including some which hold that the
nearly 3-to-1 shift ( even greater if we compare the 1940s
to subsequent decades)  can be attributed entirely to
completely earthly effects.

I wish there were some statistical way to take the raw
figures, and separate objective (i.e. UFO caused) from
subjective ( earthly or /observer oriented) influences.

I suspect this is impossible, due to the many factors
involved.    Jan Aldrich has correctly pointed out that
there were a lot of surplus blimps (etc.) used for
advertising purposes.

I cannot rule out the possibility, however, that those
responsible for "true" (i.e. completely mysterious)
UFOs, have had some change of plan, priority or
agenda .. perhaps they indeed decided UFOs were
simply being "seen too much".

-  Larry Hatch.










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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #220

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 04:58:36 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:07:04 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #220

Apology to MW #220 (For February 4, 1998)

So you LAUGH at a conspiracy -- think believers have gone gooney
in a bid for truth's subversion with a song they sing that's
loony? Are you whistling past the grave yard with your feet in
sucking mud? "Vewy quiet, wanting habits," you intone like Elmer
Fudd? Do you ape the grand Blue Boobie, shoving snickers up your
sleeve, forgetting that the truth could have you _grovel_ on your
knees? Lacking all humility you say that all is well, while
humans breed like flies in shit that's shoveled from your hell?

No conspiracy?

Then the answer's in *pure* science that is worshipped like a
God, not mere cowards wanting money and a 'man' to give the nod.
Think science gives the answers when all it watches changes as
the watching's making choices that the physics outlines plainly?
Think the heavens and the Earth are all quite well explained in
the two percent they witness with their measured half a brain?
Are you thinking there's no problem while the sky is filled with
light that is photographed and studied as they hymn and haw in
fright?

No conspiracy?

What a relief to vets of gulf wars -- those cursed with strange
malaise. I'm sure they're feeling better finding out they're not
betrayed.  And what an assuagement Tuskeegee is feeling, those
that were cursed, sensibility reeling! Those who died crazy, what
surcease they must feel; misery imagined, they were played a fair
deal. And tell it to Hurricane, near decades in prison, all that
life never missed if conspiracies missin'. And it's good that
tobacco ne'er conspired to befriend all the kids of the ones
they've been killing, no end. Iran and the contras ne'er pointed,
in fact, that huge lies had been told, and were lies without
tact! That the FED conspires daily to fix all the markets so a
few are protected when the Bears are the darkest? That oceans of
data aren't held by the gub'mint on lights in the sky -- could
portend some new covenant? That government won't lie, and our
closed institutions are the living embodiment of just
constitutions=85!?!

No conspiracy?

Friend, there's conspiracy enough to float the Navies of the
world, and in it hides the jealous and obscene. Those that punch
the *ticket*, float the *loan*, and read the *meter* are the
architects of shadows and bad dreams. Watch the ones that say
they're sneering at the stuff that falls outside what they
measure with their shallow little toys. Watch the ones who limit
magic we could perfectly enjoy while they act like thieves and
cut-throats, just a clutch of "good old boys." It comes down to
corruption, and a lack of plain respect that the chosen keep away
from you and me. I want to earn my dollar, live my life, and have
respect, but I want it from a process I _believe_!

I don't believe the government, equal feelings for our gods, and
our children eating culture has us mewling like we're flogged .
There's no trusting in our system that it does the honored thing,
just millions suffering needlessly conspired arrows, cuts, and
slings.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Outrages fortune!

No conspiracy -- indeed! There's enough crass conspiracy to hide
the light of any chosen day! Shakespeare and Chaucer wrote
regarding the _taproots_ of our propensity to conspiracy.
Herodotus and Homer before them, and in clay tablets that yawn at
infinity from the beginning of time, the Sumerians before them.
It's why we read them, still.

And come on, fellow motes; if the Navy would lie about goosing
indignant females in that "Tail Hook affair", they would most
_certainly_ concoct a multi leveled, and elaborated tale of
_inspired_ prevarication to cover up punching a missile through a
passenger jet!

I remember them doing something similar to an Iranian civil
aircraft.

Mistakes happen, but you have to cop. With us, it's always a
stonewall; it's always a dodge, a plausible deniability; what the
rest of us call a back door lie. Why believe them now, unless you
WANT to. What recent encouragement has ANY of them provided to
believe ANYTHING they say, ever?

No conspiracy?

When the BIGGEST are held accountable for what the SMALLEST must
endure, _then_ we can start to believe there's no conspiracy.
Finally, how can ANYONE sneer and snicker up their richly
appointed and (likely) ill gotten sleeves, and even _pretend_
there's _no_ conspiracy? Now, there's a question that truly
answers itself!

" There _is_ some dark truth afoot, and it reeks of fish in
Denmark! Conspiracy's alive! We see its sign and hallmark!
Whipped into a frenzy by those who sell soft soap, we are dazzled
by anomaly _contrived_ to dash our hope "!

Restore John Ford!
~~~
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake for unmasking the conspiracy.








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                  Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction

From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:41:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:33:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction


> From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com>
> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction
> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:06:38 -0500

> >Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:38:24 -0500
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction

> >>From: KRandle993@aol.com
> >>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:03:27 EST
> >>To: updates@globalserve.net
> >>Subject:  UFO UpDate: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction

> <snip>

> >>As we now know, no experts discussed the
> >>authenticity of the tape, just the reality of the
> >>abduction phenomenon. Their who promotion
> >>is misleading. This certainly isn't like Star Trek
> >>or the X-Files because no one is hinting that those
> >>programs are real.

> >>KRandle

> >Hi Kevin,

> >What we ought to do is sue 'em for equal time! If it was possible
> >to get you and Stan on the same podium I would do it with you.

> Sounds good, but impractical.  Equal time provisions were written
> specifically to provide equal access for political viewpoints
> during an election.  While networks strive to provide equal time,
> this is done for their affiliates, who are actually covered by
> the regulations.  Networks, like cable channels, are not
> federally regulated entities, per se.

> There is a lot of nonsense on television, and most of it we
> simply ignore. If Stanton (or any other participants) believes
> that their comments have been missused, he could sue to have them
> removed.  But, I would suspect that the best course of action
> would be to ignore the show, which is all it's really worth.

> Steve


I have contacted the FCC, Dick Clark Productions, and UPN.

UPN says its all DC's responsibility, I am supposed to hear back
from the FCC, and DC was very defensive and is supposed to have a
'big shot' contact me.. They blame stations for the split screen
at the end making it difficult to read the credits.

My focus was on wanting a disclaimer at the beginning saying that
none of the "Experts" had seen the video prior to being
interviewed.

I also expressed concern with the program being billed, at least
in some, locations as a documentary in the newspaper listings.

Yes it is a poor "dramatic production". It is an unpleasant
thought to wonder what it would have been like without the
experts..  Maybe everybody would have stopped watching halfway
through?

One good thing is that Dr. Michael Schermer, the skeptic,
certainly didn't appear very convincing to me. Research by
proclamation...

I will --ugh-- view it again to see if I have a cause of action.

I certainly agree that the UFO community can't sue or ask for
equal time. Perhaps the experts can for deception, wrong use of
our likenesses etc.

Does anybody know if anybody else, besides me, was featured in
the advance advertising?

Stan Friedman











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                            Re: Underground Bases

From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:44:43 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:20:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Underground Bases


> From: Psdx1@aol.com [Phil Danielson]
> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:01:29 EST
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Underground Bases

> This is where the list of underground bases are
> http://www.budget.net/~sharbob/undbases.htm

> Phil

That list has to be a joke..not only does it list Area-51 3 times
under different names, it later goes on to describe 12 Russian
bases (one with 37,000 people) on the Moon and a Japanese/German
base on Mars...

K











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                          FBI & NSA FOIA Documents

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:09:23 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 18:08:48 -0500
Subject: FBI & NSA FOIA Documents


-- Forwarded Message --

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:49:32 -0500
To: steve@konsulting.com
From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Subject: FBI & NSA FOIA Documents

Just a quick note to let you know of the availability of FOIA
information on the Internet.

It would appear that the FBI and the NSA have decided that
publishing their releasable FOIA documents n the "WEB" is more
effecient than responding to all those pesky FOIA requests for
information.  Perhaps its a good time wasting step, as they point
to the published information and allow the researcher to spend
time going through the information that is already reviewed,
declassified, and released.  Of course, if a request for a
specific event or meeting is made, it may not be included in the
published information.  It would be interesting to see if there
are any notable documents missing from these published archives.

The address for the FBI documents is:

        http://www.fbi.gov/foipa/ufo.htm#top

The address for the NSA documents is:

        http://www.nsa.gov:8080/docs/efoia/released/ufo.html

I'm sorry if this is information is "old news" to you, as some
may get their information from the same "lists" that I do.  But I
think that this is important enough to promote among researchers,
who may not be aware of its availability.  Please forward this
information on to anyone who may be interested.

Steve Kaeser
steve@konsulting.com








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                Re: Tim Good 'Alien Base' - News of the World

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:48:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:38:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Tim Good 'Alien Base' - News of the World

>From: Raine & Crow <crow@crowman.demon.co.uk>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Tim Good Alien Base, News of the World article

>Article published in THE NEWS OF THE WORLD Sunday 1st Feb 1998

>New book claims ETs are secretly among us...............
>By ROY STOCKOILL

<snip>

>The second stranger, says Lewis- who had taken on the appearance
>of a human male-claimed he was from Venus and that other aliens
>from his planet were living among us.


So what does our news agent Mr. Lewis look like when he hasn't
taken on the appearance of a human male????

Bob









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                       Re: The Real David Morehouse??

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:59:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 18:02:47 -0500
Subject: Re: The Real David Morehouse??


>From: "Mark Isganitis" <isganim@enter.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:26:50 4
>Subject: (Fwd) The Real David Morehouse??

>Hi!

>I came across this post on another mail service I belong to
>and I thought it might be interesting reading for some of
>the folks out there.

>I have no knowledge of the accuracy of the information
>contained in this post, and cannot represent it as completely
>true or factual.  However it may explain some things.


Thanks for the message. This does jibe with what little I know
about the subject. Interested to learn that Morehouse's original
connection with RV did not come as a result of a bullet grazing
his head during a training exercise in Jordan (which is the claim
he makes in PSYHIC WARRIOR). I was aware that Marr's book on
psychic stuff was cancelled. Marrs then turned to UFOS and wrote
Alien Agenda which was published last year. It has a chapter or
so on RV.

There may be something there.... but it seems to me to be  even
more difficult to separate truth from bovine excretion in RV than
it is in UFOs.

CAVEAT EMPTOR!







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   Feb > Feb 4

                  Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction

From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 18:22:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 20:55:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction

> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:41:21 -0400
> From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Rebroadcast of our Favorite Abduction


<snip>

> Yes it is a poor "dramatic production". It is an unpleasant
> thought to wonder what it would have been like without the
> experts..  Maybe everybody would have stopped watching halfway
> through?

I'm getting a little tired hearing about this issue. It would
have been better if everybody who should have known better,
didn't watch it in the first place. This was not at all
surprising. Quite expected, really, and it's time we finally
start to boycott these shows/stations. As a matter of fact, if
you remember I had this to say long before the show aired...

>Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 16:29:09 -0800
>From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Chilling Video Record of a Family's Abduction

>Maybe if more people start to refuse to appear on these shows (with
>explanation) the producers may start to ask themselves if they have
>missed something important for once.

>A great way to fight back!

And later:

>Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 18:17:26 -0800
>From: John Koopmans <john.koopmans@sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Chilling Video Record of a Family's Abduction

>> It has been my experience that if the good guys don't go on the
>> bad guys will. The producers care about meeting deadlines and
>> making money. Truth is not their thing. Lord knows ufology has
>> plenty of bad guys...

>> Stan Friedman

>Stan and List:

>Good point. However, the problem is that the producers make the
>good guys look like bad guys by editing out all the good stuff.
>As you said, truth is not their thing. That does much more harm
>than good.

>It would better to let the producers wonder why all the good guys
>are boycotting them. Viewers should do the same, or agree to
>boycott the advertisers - I have.

Prophetic? No! Just plain, common sense! Forget about suing the
bastards. They're only doing what we all expected them to be
doing in the first place. Ignore them - don't join them. Its time
to wake up and face the 'real' facts!

Yelling for nothing...

John Koopmans








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                       Re: The Real David Morehouse??

From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:34:20 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 21:12:09 -0500
Subject: Re: The Real David Morehouse??


>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:59:43 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: The Real David Morehouse??
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


 >>From: "Mark Isganitis" <isganim@enter.net>
 >>To: updates@globalserve.net
 >>Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:26:50 4
 >>Subject: (Fwd) The Real David Morehouse??

 >Hi!

 >>I came across this post on another mail service I belong to
 >>and I thought it might be interesting reading for some of
 >>the folks out there.

 >>I have no knowledge of the accuracy of the information
 >>contained in this post, and cannot represent it as completely
 >>true or factual.  However it may explain some things.


>Thanks for the message. This does jibe with what little I know
>about the subject. Interested to learn that Morehouse's original
>connection with RV did not come as a result of a bullet grazing
>his head during a training exercise in Jordan (which is the claim
>he makes in PSYHIC WARRIOR). I was aware that Marr's book on
>psychic stuff was cancelled. Marrs then turned to UFOS and wrote
>Alien Agenda which was published last year. It has a chapter or
>so on RV.

>There may be something there.... but it seems to me to be  even
>more difficult to separate truth from bovine excretion in RV than
>it is in UFOs.

> CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Bruce,

My wife and I studied Basic Controlled Remote Viewing (CRV) with
Lyn Buchanan, and as you said, there's something there. In my
opinion, Lyn is the best teacher in the CRV business. CRV is far
from 100% accurate and was originally developed with feedback
after a session being essential. If there's no feedback, then
technicaly it's not remote viewing. Ingo Swann developed the
protocols (With the help of U.S. Gov't funds) and stressed the
importance of feedback as part of the CRV protocols. Without
feedback, you''ll never know if you're right or not.

Remote viewing Aliens and such is probably a lot of fun but next
to impossible to obtain feedback. Marrs shouldn't have devoted so
much space in his book to this topic. Marrs also made a big deal
about multiple viewers getting the same results with regard to
certain alien targets. Marrs said that this added to the
credibility of the results. Marrs obviously didn't talk to the
most qualified, respected and experienced remote viewers. If he
would have spoken to Joe McMoneagle, Lyn Buchanan or Paul Smith,
he would have been told that if seven viewers get the same
results on a common target and one viewer gets something
completely different, it's just as likely that the one viewer is
right as it is that the seven are right. So as you can see,
mutiple viewers means nada and Marrs should have done his
homework. What the hell was he thinking?

Remote viewing works, it's far from perfect and it needs to be
studied further. It takes A LOT of practice to become a good
viewer. Most people aren't dedicated enough to be successful in
the RV field. At the present time, I'm one of those people.

As far as David Morehouse goes, I won't even waste my time. He
has so many misrepresentations in his book it's not even funny.

Joe Murgia








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                       Re: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 19:27:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 02:21:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs

> >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
> >Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 12:34:32 -0800
> >Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:17:22 -0500
> >Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947: Ruppelt, Air Defense & UFOs

> >I would add to what was said about Alvarez.  He was a supporter
> >of a strong offensive policy.  He was an expert on radar and had
> >looked at a number of problems involving radar.  He was a Nobel
> >laureate.  He was a complete skeptic concerning UFOs.
> >Given all this, he would be "disinclined" to look closely at any
> >UFO evidence presented.  He might look at some slightly
> >interesting reports and consider that they might for the moment
> >be puzzling, but he probably would not recommend a big study to
> >look into the possible "air defense implication."Why open a can
> >of worms?  He was a support of Teller after all.

> >So I am not saying that Alvarez was dead set against UFOs because
> >he supported Teller, and there is some dark conspiracy here.  It
> >is more like:

> > 1)  UFOs are a complete waste.

> >  2)  Yeah, there might be some momentarily puzzling things
> >here, but nothing to worry about.

>  >  3)  If we open this up to a larger study, it is a waste of
> >resources and who knows where it would lead or how the other
> >side might use it.

Now here's my two cents about Alvarez.  I recently spoke to a
technician who used to work at Lawrence Berkeley Lab when Alvarez
was the director back in the 1970s.  He told me a few things that
might give some insight into the man's personality.

He said Alvarez was obviously very bright and enthusiastic, but
not very imaginative.  His work was mostly derivative.  Despite
his Nobel, he was a second tier physicist, not among the greats
like an Einstein or Fermi or Dirac.  What's more, deep down
Alvarez knew it (according to my technician source).  He could
also be very petty.  This came out in the way Alvarez apparently
relished tearing down people who disagreed with him, especially
when he thought they might upstage him.

I remember one such incident from the 1970s when I was a grad
student at Berkeley.  Berkeley physicist Buford Price thought
that maybe he had discovered a magnetic monopole in a heavy
cosmic ray track recorded on a glass photographic plate.  The
magnetic monopole is one of the Holy Grails of physics.  If
verified, Price had a lock on the Nobel Prize. Before Price had
completed his investigation, however, word leaked out and what
resulted was sort of the 1970s equivalent of cold fusion.

But getting back to Alvarez, there was no love lost between the
two.  Alvarez couldn't stand the idea of Price getting the Nobel
(Alvarez had also been looking for monopoles), and was determined
to discredit Price and his discovery.  It wasn't just a
scientific controversy; it got very personal as I recall.
Eventually Alvarez came up with the alternate explanation of a
uranium atom track, and that's where matters stand to this day,
the issue unresolved.  Price never did get his Nobel or credit
for discovering a monopole. (While Alvarez and Price were
fighting it out, I remember a graffiti in one of the physics
men's rooms about in which of his orifice's Price wished he had a
monopole.)

The technician had his own run-in with Alvarez's ego (but didn't
seem bitter about it).   Also back in the 70's the technician had
gotten some national press for a promising invention of his,
developed at LBL.  He said Alvarez blew his cork, yanked him from
the project he had developed, and replaced him with a "real
physicist" (who didn't know a damn thing about it).  Alvarez
apparently couldn't stand the fact that a "mere technician" had
upstaged his group of PhD scientists by getting written up in the
press.

What this amounts to are the usual personality ingredients we
have all seen in the petty, arrogant, and self-righteous
"scientific" UFO debunker.  Alvarez in this respect sounds very
similar to other scientist debunkers like Menzel or Sagan.

I also asked the technician if he thought Alvarez could have been
a "spOOk" scientist, perhaps working for the government on secret
or black projects.  (I was thinking about Alvarez's involvement
with the Robertson Panel.)  He said he didn't think so.

Take this hearsay for what it's worth.

David Rudiak








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                        Re: FBI & NSA FOIA Documents

From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White]
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 05:42:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 09:31:13 -0500
Subject: Re: FBI & NSA FOIA Documents


>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:09:23 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: NSA FOIA Documents


>-- Forwarded Message --

>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:49:32 -0500
>To: steve@konsulting.com
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: FBI & NSA FOIA Documents

>Just a quick note to let you know of the availability of FOIA
>information on the Internet.

<snip>

>The address for the FBI documents is:

> http://www.fbi.gov/foipa/ufo.htm#top

>The address for the NSA documents is:

> http://www.nsa.gov:8080/docs/efoia/released/ufo.html

>I'm sorry if this is information is "old news" to you, as some
>may get their information from the same "lists" that I do.  But I
>think that this is important enough to promote among researchers,
>who may not be aware of its availability.  Please forward this
>information on to anyone who may be interested.

>Steve Kaeser
>steve@konsulting.com


Thank You!

Although I certainly would not classify myself as a researcher,
after reading one of the documents at the NSA site (#14), I can
see the "hook" for any curious person, and I appreciate
enormously your posting of the addresses.

John White mjawhite@digitaldune.net









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                  Re: Good's 'Alien Base' - N of W article

From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 08:12:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:06:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Good's 'Alien Base' - N of W article


>From: Raine & Crow <crow@crowman.demon.co.uk>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Tim Good Alien Base, News of the World article
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 18:01:21 GMT

>Article published in THE NEWS OF THE WORLD Sunday 1st Feb 1998

>New book claims ETs are secretly among us...............
>By ROY STOCKOILL

<snip>


Hello List,

Judging from the 'The News of the World' article, it looks we're
back to the Adamski era.  That Tim Good may have included the
cited testimonies in his book casts serious doubts on the value
of this "research".

It may be Tim Good stuff, but if it's bad, it's bad.

Serge Salvaille








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                        'Blather' - Occam the Barber

From: daev <daev@fringeware.com> [Dave Walsh]
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 12:43:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 09:52:23 -0500
Subject: 'Blather' - Occam the Barber

An excerpt, including a review of Devereux & Brookesmith's
'UFOs and Ufology'.

daev


*******************************************************************
NUA BLATHER  NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER
Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction,
Forteana and High Weirdness

By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
*******************************************************************
January 30th 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 1. No. 38
*******************************************************************

OCCAM THE BARBER

Veteran Blatherphants may recall an issue of Blather from October 1997, titled '
Passports for Aliens' [at]:

http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no22.html

where I told of claims by various people concerning an alleged
crash of an extraterrestrial craft in Co. Roscommon, Ireland. The
supposed crash was said to have taken place in May 1996.

I won't go as far as to revisit the entire tale here, but for
those readers who may be unfamiliar with it, check out the
original article

http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no22.html

See also 'Watching the Skywatchers'

http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no27.html

where I mention the sudden interest that the ICUFOS

http://freespace.virgin.net/ic.ufos/

were showing in the Curlew mountains area of Roscommon.

In short, there were rumours of a crash, the subsequent cordoning
off of a large area of countryside by the army followed a great
flocking to the scene by unnamed politicians, diplomats and U.S
military personnel. I was not alone in putting forward the theory
that that the downed bird was no less than a warplane on an
unofficial military flyover. 'UFO Reality' magazine criticised
Blather for this theory

http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no30.html

pointing out that if the alleged incident was a NATO cock-up,
then surely the public would have been told. UFO Reality don't
seem to realise that Ireland is not a member of NATO.

So why am I blathering on about all this yet again? On Tuesday
27th January 1998, I received a phonecall from an acquaintance of
mine, who informed me that he has possession of some 35 documents
of correspondence with various Irish governmental bodies. These
documents contain information regarding the 'Roscommon Crash'. I
shall refrain from from mentioning my source just yet, not
because I doubt their veracity -- it is a reliable source -- but
because Blather has not yet laid eyes on these documents. The
Blather Joint Chiefs of Staff shall be discussing them next week,
hopefully giving me cause to explore them in more detail.

So what do the documents say?

Apparently they mention the crash of a Swedish Airforce Saab
Gripen MkII, killing both *test pilots* on board. The fighter was
flying from Knock Airport in Co. Mayo, on an easterly course. The
area was cordoned off, the Gardai (police) were asked to keep
away, and the wreckage was retrieved. In previous reports,
mentions of U.S. military personnel wandering about rural Ireland
were mentioned, and the *new* version tells us that these chaps
were in for the kill -- they were eager to get their hands on
*something* that the Gripen was carrying.

Even if this is an accurate account of the alleged events, it
still raises a multitude of questions, necessitating a possible
to trip to Occam's Barbershop. What was a Saab Gripen doing over
Ireland? Why was it flown by test pilots? Why were the U.S.
military so interested, and why were they allowed to get
involved?

Some background, and some answers. . .

Ireland, in case anyone is under any alternative illusions, is a
neutral republic. Sweden too, is a neutral, if rather well armed
nation. Neither are members of NATO (North Atlantic Treaty
Organization). As the Swedish airforce are no strangers to Irish
airspace, through airshows and the like, why should there be such
secrecy about a crash?

A joint venture between Saab and British Aerospace, the Gripen

http://www.gripen.saab.se/

is billed by its manufacturers as being the 'first fourth
multi-role generation fighter in service'. Although developmental
work began 1982, it only ended in December 1996. Many are now in
service, and it is becoming a constituent part of Sweden's
defence forces. The two seater version 'has been developed for
combat use as well as for both conversion and tactical training',
and is not expected to be used in service until some time this
year.

The Gripen carries state of the art avionics, including the
'air-to-air Tactical Information Data Link System (TIDLS), which
permits real-time exchange of data both within and between
cooperating tactical units.' Is the U.S Air Force desperate to
get their hands on this? Surely, with amicable relations that
Sweden would have with the U.S., and the relationship between
Saab and British Aerospace promoting industrial resource sharing
with the U.K., a close ally of the U.S., would there *need* to be
American military personnel hanging about in Co. Roscommon?

More next week (hopefully).


UFOS AND UFOLOGY
It was with some hesitation that I chose to purchase Paul
Devereux and Peter Brookesmith's 'UFOs & Ufology'. I had read Bob
Rickard's review in Fortean Times 106, where he gave it an
'Excellent' rating, and I have deep respect for both authors -
I've cited Devereux's endeavours in Blather before. But when I
went to pay IEP20 for their new publication, I was a little taken
aback. I held in my hand a 'coffee table' sized tome, with an
almost abstract rendition of 'extra-terrestrial' in front of a
saucer. 'Potboiler', I muttered, and left it down. Eventually,
after a few minutes thumbing through the pages, pacing and beard
stroking, I was away with a copy under my arm.

Apparently you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. I didn't - I
bought 'UFOs & Ufology' on the strength of the authors' previous
work. However, I hope that people do buy this book because of its
cover - because if they buy it hoping for yet another reassurance
of the reality of flying saucers and alien visitation, perhaps
they might actually learn something.

The authors trace UFOs from their earliest historical mentions,
discussing their meanings in different cultures, right up to
describing how and why 'flying saucers' suddenly made news in
1947, put forward their own theories, and still have room to
explore the various hypothesis outside their own ideas. Any
Roswell believer who doesn't have questions raised for them by
the chapter on *that* alleged incident needs a boot in the ear.
The tenuous links between crop circles and UFOs is explained, and
the abductionists, such as John Mack and Budd Hopkins are heavily
criticised, but not without well expressed reasons. Devereux's
own field -- earthlight research -- is clearly explained, as is
its relationship to the overall UFO phenomenon. While the authors
pull no punches, they are not dismissive either. They never
debunk the idea of extraterrestrial life, yet do a damn fine job
of explaining why there is yet little evidence to support it.

Probably the best overview of the UFO phenomenon that money can
buy.


UFOs and Ufology
Paul Devereux and Peter Brookesmith
Blandford 1997
ISBN 0-7137-2657-1


Dave (daev) Walsh
30th January 1998




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NUA : Internet Consultancy & Developer         http://www.nua.ie/
Dave Walsh <daev@nua.ie> Tel: +353-1-676-8996  Fax: +353-1-661-3932
Blather: http://www.nua.ie/blather - Weekly paranormal meanderings










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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:19:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 17:46:40 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:54:38 +1030
>From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: "UFO SPHERE/ORB" over BROOKLYN

>Hello Updates.

>Last night I received, from Skywatch International, a long
>account of a "sighting" over Brooklyn, and was interested to note
>that the "witness" had attempted some form of mental
>communication with the object in question.

>Has anyone else ever found that, when watching "unknowns," it is
>possible to establish some form of telepathic rapport?

>The text of the posting follows here.   There were also TWO
>photographs of the object in question.

<snip>

The photograph of the object at distance looks very like a lens
reflection to me, esp. if it is assumed that the sun is somewhere
to the left of the camera.







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                              Black Helicopter

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 16:56:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 16:56:06 -0500
Subject: Black Helicopter

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:57:53 -0500 (EST)
From: skywatch_ok@msn.com [Alex Cavallari]
To: skywatch_ok@msn.com
Subject: Black Helicopters

Note: thanks for the neat photos alex...jim
Reply to:


REPLY TO : XELAUFO@AOL.COM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

HI SKYWATCH,

This is part 2 ...."THE BLACK HELICOPTER".

thank you,

ALEX CAVALLARI
NEW YORK STATE DIRECTOR
SKWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC.
KB2NYV AMATEUR RADIO
XELAUFO@AOL.COM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ALEX CAVALLARI
XELAUFO@AOL.COM
Brooklyn, New York
Copyright 1998, All Rights Reserved

PART 2 0F 2 : "UFO SPHERE / ORB"

Date: Sunday FEB. 1, 1998
Time: 4:40 PM, EST
Camera: MINOLTA
Film: Kodak Gold, ASA400, 36 Exp., 35 mm


"THE BLACK HELICOPTER"

I was about  4:40 PM EST, I was in the house washing up when I
heard the noise of a helicopter over the house, I went and got
the camera and walked out onto the back porch. There was what
looked like a Black helicopter hovering directly over my home at
about 1500 - 2000 ft. I aimed the camera and started to take
pictures but after the first one I took the camera ran out of
film The helicopter did not appear to have any markings or
identification on it. It did make the "typical" noise a
helicopter makes. It hovered for about 2 minutes, during this
time it appeared as if it was spraying a liquid substance from
the bottom of the helicopter onto the ground and homes below,
this was mainly over my home and my immediate neighbors. I
noticed the liquid because as I was looking up at the helicopter
there was a very fine mist of moisture forming on my glasses, I
then went into the house and watched from the inside as the
helicopter turned and tipped the cockpit down as if it was
looking at me, it hovered in this position for about 30 seconds
and then turned as it hovered and headed towards the direction
the UFO Sphere / Orb went , it headed for the south west. The
speed in which it took off was very fast, in my opinion. It did
not fly away slowly like most news or police helicopters do in
this area. Within about 20 seconds it was no longer visible in
the sky.

I was wondering what the liquid was that I though the helicopter
was spraying and what the moisture was which was on my glasses,
it was a clear cold day outside with no precipitation of that
form. There was some moisture still on my glasses so I used a
paper towel to blot it off them. I then folded the paper towel
and placed it in a plastic bag and sealed it.

Was it just coincidence that the BLACK helicopter appears a few
minutes after I saw and took some pictures of a UFO Sphere / Orb
and that the helicopter leaves heading in the same direction as
the UFO ? I do not think so!!

                    "LIFE IS ELECTRICITY AND ELECTRICITY IS LIFE"

                                       ALEX CAVALLARI





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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 5

                      'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 16:24:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 16:24:26 -0500
Subject: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY

Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:54:38 +1030
From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: "UFO SPHERE/ORB" over BROOKLYN

Hello Updates.

Last night I received, from Skywatch International, a long
account of a "sighting" over Brooklyn, and was interested to note
that the "witness" had attempted some form of mental
communication with the object in question.

Has anyone else ever found that, when watching "unknowns," it is
possible to establish some form of telepathic rapport?

The text of the posting follows here.   There were also TWO
photographs of the object in question.

___________________________________________

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:18:19 -0500 (EST)
From: skywatch_ok@msn.com
To: skywatch_ok@msn.com
Subject: "UFO SPHERE/ORB"

Note:
Reply to:

FOR POSTING:
******************************************************************
                                           TO BE POSTED
                             REPLY TO : XELAUFO@AOL.COM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

HI SKYWATCH,

I had a strange event a few days ago, here is the story and some
pictures of the event.

It is in 2 parts "UFO SPHERE/ORB"    PART 1
and      "THE BLACK HELICOPTER"    PART 2

thank you,

ALEX CAVALLARI
NEW YORK STATE DIRECTOR
SKWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC.
KB2NYV AMATEUR RADIO
XELAUFO@AOL.COM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ALEX CAVALLARI
XELAUFO@AOL.COM
Brooklyn, New York
Copyright 1998, All Rights Reserved

PART 1 0F 2 : "UFO SPHERE / ORB"

Date: Sunday FEB. 1, 1998
Time: 4:20 PM, EST
Camera: MINOLTA
Film: Kodak Gold, ASA400, 36 Exp., 35 mm

                                      "UFO  SPHERE / ORB"

This picture shows a " UFO Sphere / Orb" which was filmed over
Brooklyn, New York by ALEX CAVALLARI. The UFO sphere / orb was
seen maneuvering in what appeared to be a controlled and or
piloted fashion.

It was a nice day and I had to go outside on the roof of my  home
to adjust my amateur radio antenna because some high winds had
shifted its position. When I was finished I was looking around
skywatching for a few minutes before going inside. It was clear
with some white clouds, the sun was low and bright.

I first noticed a small orange / red colored bright dot in the
eastern sky, in the direction of Kennedy Airport. At first I
thought there was some dirt on my glasses, so I cleaned them and
looked back at the sky, there was no colored dot to be found
anywhere. I scanned the sky for a few more seconds and all of a
sudden the UFO appeared , it just appeared from nowhere, I did
not see it fly to the area in the sky which I viewed it in. This
time it was much bigger and closer, it was about the size or
diameter of a cigarette (1/4 in. diam.), when viewed at arms
length.  I went inside and got my camera, it took me about one
minute to get the camera. When I returned and looked for the
sphere it just appeared to swoop straight down in front of my
view and then it stopped for about 3 seconds and then it
disappeared. When it was at its closest point to me it was bigger
then the moon. I held the camera up and started to look through
the camera to scan the sky so if I saw the UFO again I would be
ready for it. The camera is set to automatic when it is first
turned on and I had the zoom set to 12x maximum zoom. About 3 - 4
minutes went by and I was getting tired of looking through the
camera so I decided to have a cigarette and wait and look around
the sky for awhile. About 5 - 6 minutes goes by and I hear a loud
rushing noise in my ear, only my left ear, it sounded like the
rush of the ocean or electrical "static" noise, the noise was
perceived as fairly loud and  it lasted about 10 seconds. The
noise was fading out slowly when I started to think to myself =85..
"you do this all the time=85.you fly around take pictures of us and
never let us take pictures of you =85I know your there =85.come on,
that not fair, I know you hear me...." and all of a sudden I turn
around and I see the UFO hi in the sky and to the north, it is a
small colored dot again, I aim the camera and it is gone, I turn
to the left , west, and it is right in front of me I take 1
picture, the UFO started to move forward and down towards me and
then stopped , it was the size of a basketball when viewed at
arms length, a bright red, orange, yellow, white orb. It appeared
to be a solid mass of light, there were different layers of color
around the perimeter of the sphere. It then went to the right,
north, then went straight up and straight back down, I was able
to have the camera on it during this time and I took 2 pictures.
Then it just flew from the right, north, stopped for a split
second and headed to the south west and it appeared as if it flew
into the sun and was no longer visible. The total time of the
event was about 12 minutes.


The flight pattern and the ability of this craft to appear and
disappear make it appear to Alex that this must have been a craft
which had  intelligence controlling it. Is it coincidence that
when Alex mentally though for the UFO to come back that it did or
was it a form of mental electrical communications?

                    "LIFE IS ELECTRICITY AND ELECTRICITY IS LIFE"

                                         ALEX CAVALLARI





Picture Attachments:


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----





File: UFOSPH~2.JPG




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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:20:57 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:50:06 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

Hi,

Thanks for your interest in the event, yes I agree that the
SPHERE does appear "somewhat" like a picture of "lens flare" but
upon closer examination I think you would see it is not that. I
have other pics from other times which appear to show the same
type of object, in Australia these are seen and are sometimes
called ZEUS SPHERE / ZEUS FIRE, I think.

I am the only eye witness to this event but I do have others who
have seen these or similiar SPHERES with me on several ocassions
in Brooklyn, over the same area and in LONG ISLAND, NY near Point
lookout.

thanks,

ALEX CAVALLARI
NEW YORK  STATE DIRECTOR
SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC
KB2NYV AMATEUR RADIO
XELAUFO@AOL.COM








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:14:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:46:44 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:54:38 +1030
>From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: "UFO SPHERE/ORB" over BROOKLYN


>Last night I received, from Skywatch International, a long
>account of a "sighting" over Brooklyn, and was interested to note
>that the "witness" had attempted some form of mental
>communication with the object in question.

>Has anyone else ever found that, when watching "unknowns," it is
>possible to establish some form of telepathic rapport?

>The text of the posting follows here.   There were also TWO
>photographs of the object in question.


Nope,

Lens flare.  Plain and simple.  The characteristic color
is a dead give away.

Put this one in the circular file.

Bob









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                       Re: The Real David Morehouse??

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:14:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:51:47 -0500
Subject: Re: The Real David Morehouse??


>From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:34:20 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Real David Morehouse??


>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:59:43 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: The Real David Morehouse??
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

(SNIP)

>>This does jibe with what little I know
>>about the subject. Interested to learn that Morehouse's original
>>connection with RV did not come as a result of a bullet grazing
>>his head during a training exercise in Jordan (which is the claim
>>he makes in PSYHIC WARRIOR). I was aware that Marr's book on
>>psychic stuff was cancelled. Marrs then turned to UFOS and wrote
>>Alien Agenda which was published last year. It has a chapter or
>>so on RV.

>>There may be something there.... but it seems to me to be  even
>>more difficult to separate truth from bovine excretion in RV than
>>it is in UFOs.

>> CAVEAT EMPTOR!

>My wife and I studied Basic Controlled Remote Viewing (CRV) with
>Lyn Buchanan, and as you said, there's something there. In my
>opinion, Lyn is the best teacher in the CRV business. CRV is far
>from 100% accurate and was originally developed with feedback
>after a session being essential. If there's no feedback, then
t>echnicaly it's not remote viewing. Ingo Swann developed the
>protocols (With the help of U.S. Gov't funds) and stressed the
>importance of feedback as part of the CRV protocols. Without
>feedback, you''ll never know if you're right or not.

>Remote viewing Aliens and such is probably a lot of fun but next
>to impossible to obtain feedback. Marrs shouldn't have devoted so
>much space in his book to this topic. Marrs also made a big deal
>about multiple viewers getting the same results with regard to
>certain alien targets. Marrs said that this added to the
>credibility of the results. Marrs obviously didn't talk to the
>most qualified, respected and experienced remote viewers. If he
>would have spoken to Joe McMoneagle, Lyn Buchanan or Paul Smith,
>he would have been told that if seven viewers get the same
>results on a common target and one viewer gets something
>completely different, it's just as likely that the one viewer is
>right as it is that the seven are right. So as you can see,
>mutiple viewers means nada and Marrs should have done his
>homework. What the hell was he thinking?

>Remote viewing works, it's far from perfect and it needs to be
>studied further. It takes A LOT of practice to become a good
>viewer. Most people aren't dedicated enough to be successful in
t>he RV field. At the present time, I'm one of those people.

>As far as David Morehouse goes, I won't even waste my time. He
>has so many misrepresentations in his book it's not even funny.

Thanks for the CC (cogent comments) by Joe Murgia.







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             #Visitations Guest Speaker: Amy Hebert (Yellowrose)

From: Angela Shilling <angela@skipnet.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 18:37:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 22:00:37 -0500
Subject: #Visitations Guest Speaker: Amy Hebert (Yellowrose)

#Visitations on the Undernet will be having a Special Guest
speaker, Amy Hebert aka Yellowrose.

Saturday, Feburary 14th

7pm Pacific / 9pm Central / 3am GMT

Where: #Visitations on the Undernet

How to get to IRC: http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/irc/

BIO:

Amy Hebert M.Ed., C.Ht.
The Vanguard, Director
The Vanguard Project:  http://www.vanguard.ufo.net

Ms. Hebert holds a B.A. degree in Psychology, M.Ed. in
Counseling/Psychology and is a Certified Hypnotherapist.  Ms.
Hebert worked as a close associate with Dr. Karla Turner until
her death in 1996 and continues to work in association with many
researchers around the world. She served as president of a UFO
organization in the Dallas-Ft. Worth metroplex for two years and
co-facilitated various Experiencer support groups on-line and in
Dallas.  In 1994, she began lecturing on a local basis, is
currently writing two books on correlations found between five
categories of phenomena, continues to research various aspects of
UFO and related phenomena, investigates sightings, abductions,
underground/above ground facilities and writes articles for the
internet, newsletters and magazines.



Angela Shilling
email: angela@skipnet.com
Web Page: http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations
#Visitations on the UnderNet, Channel Manager







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                            Re: Black Helicopter

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:18:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:47:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Black Helicopter

Helicopter looks black because it is silhouetted against sky.

Playing with the JPEG reveals a lighter color and detail.

Bob









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                            Re: Black Helicopter

From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:34:14 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:13:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Black Helicopter


>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:18:00 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Black Helicopter

>Helicopter looks black because it is silhouetted against sky.

>Playing with the JPEG reveals a lighter color and detail.

>Bob


Hi BOB,

What I said was "There was what looked like a Black helicopter
hovering directly over my home at about 1500 - 2000 ft."  Were
you able to determine what color it was markings etc? I used
Adobe Photoshop to "check it out" and I did not see anything.

I am not nor claim to be a image expert.

thanks,
ALEX CAVALLARI






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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:26:15 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:11:27 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:14:59 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY


>Nope,

>Lens flare.  Plain and simple.  The characteristic color
> is a dead give away.

>Put this one in the circular file.

>Bob

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
HI BOB,

I do not know how I could see lens flare travel around the sky
and I do agree it even looks like it. I will try to find the
other pics/story I have of a sphere that was filmed with others
viewing it with me from last year for you to "check out".

I think we must remember that just because something looks like
what we think it is does not mean that is what it is.

thanks,

ALEX CAVALLARI







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:20:41 +1030
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:29:13 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:14:59 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY

> >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:54:38 +1030
> >From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: "UFO SPHERE/ORB" over BROOKLYN

> >Last night I received, from Skywatch International, a long
> >account of a "sighting" over Brooklyn, and was interested to note
> >that the "witness" had attempted some form of mental
> >communication with the object in question.

> >Has anyone else ever found that, when watching "unknowns," it is
> >possible to establish some form of telepathic rapport?

> >The text of the posting follows here.   There were also TWO
> >photographs of the object in question.

> Nope,

> Lens flare.  Plain and simple.  The characteristic color
> is a dead give away.

> Put this one in the circular file.

> Bob



Hello Bob and other list members.

In my posting I did NOT  include the photographs, as this was
not the "focus" of my question. [The inclusion was mine. --ebk]

The witness had described, in some detail, the movements of the
"unknown," and that the whole event had a duration of
approximately 12 minutes.  I notice, also, that the object had
been seen in the direction of Kennedy Airport, by the witness,
BEFORE he had looked through his camera viewfinder.

Could a lens flare behave in such a fashion, AND move around for
12 minutes?

My question to the list was, in fact, asking if anyone had had
any experience with "rapport"/"communication" etc. with
"UNKNOWNS."

My area of study is not so much photographic, as "communication."

Thank you.

JJ







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                    Re: UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:57:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 15:41:07 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:26:15 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>HI BOB,

>I do not know how I could see lens flare travel around the sky
>and I do agree it even looks like it. I will try to find the
>other pics/story I have of a sphere that was filmed with others
>viewing it with me from last year for you to "check out".

>I think we must remember that just because something looks like
>what we think it is does not mean that is what it is.

>thanks,

>ALEX CAVALLARI

Alex,

You could only see lens flare travel around the sky if you were
looking THROUGH the camera and moving it.  If you saw this with
your naked eye and then caught it on camera, that would be very
different.

Maybe the aliens have learned to cleverly disguise their craft
so that they look just like lens flare in photos!!

Bob









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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: u9501676@bournemouth.ac.uk (Simon Cleggett)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:58:06 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 15:46:30 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

Dear All,

Many thanks for the the info thus far. I am currently reading for
a B.sc(Hons) in prehistoric Archaeology in Bournemouth, U.k.I am
fascinated by the concept of extraterrestrial life and can't wait
for the day when archaeologists will be called upon to evaluate
evidence of stellar civilizations!

On a more earthly note, after sifting through endless amounts of
British published material on the subject, I have found that
there seems to be a common agreement that needs reappraisal. Many
publications show pictures of circular anomolies on the ground
(not crop circles) and interpret them as evidence of alien
landings.I would suggest that at least 99% of these are simply
archaeological features dating to no later than the late
Iron-Age.

Why are archaeologists excluded from the scientific study of
ufology? The most recent sightings in this area were last year
when a group of three spherical/bright objects "screamed" across
the horizon between the Purbeck hills and Hengistbury Head before
turning sharply east and literally disapearing.

I am interested in the role of sightings in antiquity and whether
prehistoric man was influenced temporaly/spiritually by the
phenomenon. Cave art and contemporary carvings seem to be devoid
of any depictions of such encounters.

I would discount the ramblings of Von Danekin!!(Chariots of the
Gods)etc.


I would be interested to hear from any serious ufo researchers
that agree with the fundamental role that archaeologists could
have to play in this arena.

Keep up the good work!

Best wishes and kind regards,

Si Cleggett









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                   Re: Another old case recently uncovered

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 19:36:33 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 16:06:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Another old case recently uncovered


Hi all. Since people are getting into typing up old cases from
the archives, I thought I'd contribute a little something along
this line, too. (I think it's a great idea, BTW, because a lot of
classic cases are so far not available in electronic format for
newbies to obtain via the web.)

This one is a bit different, though. This is a previously unknown
case which was apparently reported to Project Blue Book back in
1954, but which was never filed by them. The case is contained in
a letter sent to Ruppelt via TRUE Magazine, but was never
acknowledged.

I received this letter from one of the original witnesses, after
I appeared recently on a radio talk show about UFOs. He still had
his own carbon copy of the original letter to Ruppelt, and felt
that it should be recorded by someone seriously interested in
case data. So, here is the complete text of the letter to
Ruppelt, available to researchers nearly 44 years after it was
written!

**********************************************************************


                                        Selkirk, Manitoba
                                        August 10, 1954

Capt. E. J. Ruppelt, U.S.A.F.R.,
c/o TRUE Magazine
New York City, N.Y.

Dear Sir:

It was with great interest I read your article 'What Our Air
Force Found Out About Flying Saucers' which appeared in the May
1954 issue of True Magazine. I have read quite a few accounts
concerning these unknown flying objects, but your article was by
far the most interesting. Never having seen such objects, I was
perhaps a little skeptical, but never considered them impossible.
On July 22 however, I did see "something" and was fortunate
enough to have three other people as witnesses.

I understand that you are no longer connected with this research,
but I have taken the liberty of writing you, hoping that you will
pass on the following report to those who may be interested.

On July 22, between 8.15 and 8.30 p.m. C.D.T. I saw what at first
appeared to be five aircraft in the southern skies.   It was a
very clear sunny evening and these aircraft seemed to be
reflecting the sun -- they were a very bright shiny silver in
color. The angle at which they appeared in relation to directly
overhead and the horizon would be, I judge, between 20 to 25
degrees (see sketch). I watched these objects for not less than
three minutes, possibly six or seven -- unfortunately I did not
think to time them -- did not realize what I was viewing.  During
that time they did not increase or decrease in size, all the
while glowing a very bright silver in color. While watching, they
appeared to 'drift', almost imperceptibly in a westerly
direction. Suddenly four of the objects disappeared and the fifth
(No. 1 in the sketch) vanished possibly 30 seconds later. They
did not grow smaller and vanish, but simply disappeared, very
much like a person turning off a light. At no time was any sound
audible. These objects were in formation (see sketch) and as long
as they remained visible, they did not alter their formation.  As
for the shape of these objects, I believe "round" would best
describe them - they were definitely not square, oblong or
cigar-shaped.

Whatever these were, they were also seen by people living in the
Winnipeg area at approximately the same time. As Winnipeg and
Selkirk are roughly 20 miles apart, these unknowns could hardly
have been balloons.  To have been seen from both places at the
same time, it would seem to me that these objects would have to
be at a very high altitude and also very large in size. Some of
the people in Winnipeg who saw these strange objects, reported
such to the two newspapers, The Winnipeg Tribune and the Winnipeg
Free Press.

I am not by any means an expert on aircraft, but during the war I
served with the Royal Canadian Navy and spent a few months with a
British Aircraft Carrier.

The people with me at the time these objects were sighted were my
wife, my sister-in-law and her husband. No doubt you have had
many reports at different times from various people - believe me,
I am not a "crank" looking for publicity, but I actually saw
something which I have seen before and of that I am certain. If
there is anything else, such as any further details concerning
that which I have reported, I sincerely hope that you or someone
will write, as I shall be only too pleased to try and answer. I
am definitely very curious and interested to try and learn what I
actually did see.

                                Yours very truly,
                                (named deleted by UFOROM)

********************************************************************

--
Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca
(and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca)
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:57:24 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 16:01:05 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:20:57 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Hi,

>Thanks for your interest in the event, yes I agree that the
>SPHERE does appear "somewhat" like a picture of "lens flare" but
>upon closer examination I think you would see it is not that. I
>have other pics from other times which appear to show the same
>type of object, in Australia these are seen and are sometimes
>called ZEUS SPHERE / ZEUS FIRE, I think.

>I am the only eye witness to this event but I do have others who
>have seen these or similiar SPHERES with me on several ocassions
>in Brooklyn, over the same area and in LONG ISLAND, NY near Point
>lookout.

>thanks,

>ALEX CAVALLARI
>NEW YORK  STATE DIRECTOR
>SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC
>KB2NYV AMATEUR RADIO
>XELAUFO@AOL.COM

Alex,

Why did you not center the "sphere" in your frame area instead of
having it off to the other side of the frame from the sun?
(Exactly where one would expect a lens flare).

As a professional photographer I would like to state
categorically that this is a lens flare. Sorry I can only speak
to what I see, not any other references to what you saw before or
after taking the picture.

Drew Williamson









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                            Re: Black Helicopter

From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 13:55:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 15:58:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Black Helicopter


> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:18:00 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Black Helicopter

> Helicopter looks black because it is silhouetted against sky.

> Playing with the JPEG reveals a lighter color and detail.

> Bob

That chopper looks to me like a 3 rotor Huey or a  Mitubishi,
more likely the latter. It certainly is a conventional helicopter
of some type. it has elevons, tail rotor, stinger to protect tail
rotor from tail low landings. It also looks like a chin mounted
"Tyler Mount" under the forward cabin, which as you probably know
Bob, is a gyroscopically controlled video or film camera used to
take aerial shots without any vibration showing up in the shot.
It's a steady-cam in the sky. It might have been up there getting
aerial footage for a movie. It could have been a search light,
but does not look like the usual type.

Kevin Randle, being a helicopter pilot, might recognize the
silhouette if he's monitoring this list.

It shouldn't be forgotten that the reason that helos hover for
long periods of time is because they can. That's what they are
built for.

Don







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   Feb > Feb 7

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:35:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 16:12:52 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:14:59 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY


REGARDING UFO ORB...

Lens flare was my initial impression...when I noticed the
considerable increase in brightness moving to the left in the
picture, suggesting the sun was just to the left of the field of
view.

However, if it was actually seen prior to the picture being
taken, then the witness testimony must be weight against the
potential explanation....







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #221

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 05:58:01 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 16:17:51 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #221

Apology to MW #221 (For February 7, 1998)

You look out on the blackness of a starry, starry night to washed out
points of light polluted, symbols of your fright=85Seeing but a fraction of
what is really there, you hope its strange ambivalence won't put you to
its dare. Move on out to darkened space, and the fraction's even smaller;
despite the fact you're seeing more -- enigma just gets taller! That
space is huge, immense, unknown -- its size is _ever_ larger. The length
and breadth accelerates, its hugeness fans its ardor. In it's found
potential of a billion trillion ids, if you've thought it, it has
happened =85 and has happened as it did. And much, much more has happened
than is thought of in these minds that inhabits our shared multi-verse in
slow rivers of old time.

There is blackness that transcends Pol Pot, or Hitler -- even Stalin!
There are miseries undreamed of in their pits to snare the fallen.
Despair so thick it runs in veins like toxic waste in dreams -- that
mirror all the passion of its shrieks, and cries and screams.

But balance is the order so the inverse also happens. There is truth and
light and sun washed sight to complement its lesson. There's the smell of
leaves of grass on a million peaceful worlds, a touch of silk that's
cobweb sheer on healthy frames un-shamed, unfurled. Unclouded and austere
and never screwing for percentage, they are living, laughing, loving, and
they know the sweet advantage.

Like a fiction, or a star trek, or a star wars, love abides. It's the
feeling good with honor that is felt with _humble_ pride. It's the
looking out to see their works as lasting, fitting in. It's achieving all
their dreams AND satisfactions found therein! There's a breathing free
with honor in a world they help build, there's completeness for that
*spot* in them -- _you_ love it when it's filled.  They respect the
individual, the key to their success, they live in lucent Edens they
construct, but I digress.

Garibaldi, someone like him, lives his life on edge of failure; a captain
takes a sacrifice to task. Anything can happen on a million billion
worlds. Dr. Drake can only tell you when you ask. He's more than just a
WAG, and he's conservative as hell; he is science un-myopic and he's got
a tale to tell. It's a statement on veracity that watchers _do_ exist,
could watch us span potential -- watch some of us resist =85 Could be
looking from the shadows some avoid in dangerous fear -- go beyond the
envelope that you contain and label queer. =85Deliver from the darkness, or
give up on the light. Living on (?) -- in all your selfishness, and
disrespecting spite.

Earth is but a point in space, and cursed with infestation. A cancer
rages in her flesh; it's humankind, and its gestation. Barely self aware,
it's wondered, "will it meet its test (?)"; will it wallow in its toxic
filth, or will it rise, amidst the best? Will it screw for best
percentage like Ms. Ripley once observed, and grind itself beneath its
heel -- unrepentant, undeterred? Or will it work to _meet_ the watchers,
read a history handed down, though it crumble proud foundations of old
systems un-profound.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com

It does little good to maintain that these are not precipitous times. On
the one hand we look into untroubled skies with a good clearing breath in
our collective chest -- remarking that it's a grand time to be alive =85 on
the other hand -- well, the other hand is empty=85empty and cold.

We feel this on levels underlying the brave fronts we put up during the
day, holding this tenuous *thing we call reality* together in gnashing
teeth, and scratching nails. Some of us are able to hear the screams of
those that fall to the wayside, or under foot, in this mad dash to covet
imagined satisfaction; smell those ground up for grease to lubricate the
lifestyles of a dwindling few; see the disrespected stagger in induced
retardation; feel the hopelessness, despair, and anguish of a MAJORITY
of  INDIVIDUAL people who inhabit an insignificant and brown tinged, but
blue and white point in space.

I think it explains the popularity of "Titanic", a theme of increasing
frequency nearing century's end; the ship a metaphor for the *impossible*
occurring; a complete and absolute destruction, even disappearance, of
the very ground you stand on; a plunging out of sight into the black,
high pressure, and terrifying unknown. Maybe we go out with some blustery
passion, or not -- the slide to crushing dissolution is complete for
both.

I stand as round shouldered and vulnerable as any, but I square my
shoulders to hoist a one fingered salute to any fate that sweeps down on
all of us, or just on me. I'll face what's true, and make it work, if I'm
able! Or not.

The salute remains.

~~~
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake, and tied to preclude a similar salute.








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             Chat with John S. Carpenter, Abductions Researcher

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:02:40 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 16:52:00 -0500
Subject: Chat with John S. Carpenter, Abductions Researcher

ABDUCTIONS: CENTURIES OF CONTACT?

Are yesterday's folktales and myths the stuff of today's
abductions? Join us Tuesday, February 10, 6pm PT
for a live chat with John S. Carpenter to discuss the
parallels and differences of yesterday and today's
accounts. This chat is available at
http://forums.msn.com/UFO

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.

There is also a Netshow audio interview of John
Carpenter available on our site.













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                         Re: Naval Records Shredded

From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 15:01:21 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:29:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Naval Records Shredded

Well, it took them long enough, but the mainstream media has
finally picked up on this story. This story was first reported
last year by Linda Moulton Howe on Art Bell's Dreamland.

Joe Murgia


New York Times Page One - 2/7/98

Interagency Snafu Causes Scientific Records to Be Shredded

By Malcolm W. Browne

  A huge trove of scientific records from the Naval Research
Laboratory has been destroyed because of snarled communications
between another federal agency and the laboratory, which calls the
loss a calamity.

  An investigation by both agencies is to be concluded this month.
But although the investigators expect to pin the responsibility for
the loss of the irreplaceable documents, which spanned half a
century, nothing can be done to recover them. All were shredded
last year, in a mistake that attracted little public notice until a
recent account of it in a Washington newsletter, Science and
Government Report.

  Dr. David van Keuren, the naval laboratory's historian, said in an
interview that the destroyed records included some 42,000 scientific
notebooks and 600 cubic feet of letters and other correspondence.
All had been stored at the Federal Records Center in Suitland, Md.

  Although some of the lost records were as recent as the mid-1980s,
 about 80 percent predated 1950. While they had little value for
scientific research, they were nonetheless prized, as historical
documents.

  Over the course of decades, the Naval Research Laboratory,
which has a staff of about 3,500 and is based in Washington,
has made a number of major contributions to the nation's science
and technology, in the development of American radar,
astrophysics and radio astronomy, the study of underwater sound,
the invention of sonar, the investigation of matter under enormous
pressures like those found within giant planets, and the chemistry
of carbon cage molecules, among other fields.

  One major loss from the documents' destruction was that of many
of the records covering the laboratory's role in launching Vanguard,
one of America's earliest space satellites. Vanguard made it into
orbit in March 1958, just months behind the Soviet satellite Sputnik
and America's first satellite, Explorer.

  Although many records of the Vanguard program were lost,
van Keuren said, some private records kept by relatives of
scientists who worked on the project have been recovered.
There are hopes, he said, that other private sources may
be able to fill in a few of the gaps.

  Van Keuren discovered the shredding last August, when he
asked the laboratory's archivist to retrieve some documents
about materials science from the Federal Records Center
and was told that they had been destroyed.

"As you can imagine," he said, "we're very unhappy."

  The National Archives and Records Administration, which
runs the records center, does not question the value of the
destroyed papers, said Dr. Susan Cooper, spokesman for
the agency. Dr. Cooper said a "fail-safe" system for protecting
valuable federal documents had evidently failed.

  Under that system, she said, before documents from federal
agencies are placed into storage, they are provisionally assessed
as either permanent or temporary, depending on the records
center's perception of their importance.

  "The archives of a Cabinet secretary are always designated
as permanent, for example," Dr. Cooper said, "while my
correspondence would, in general, be temporary."

  Then, when temporary files have been stored for a long period
and are about to be consigned to the shredder, the records
center must give the federal agency from which they came
90 days' notice, in case the agency wants to preserve them.

  The Naval Research Laboratory contends that it never received
such warning last year before its temporary records were destroyed.

  But Dr. Cooper replied, "We have the evidence that the laboratory
received notification but did not act on it."

  Dr. John Carlin, who as archivist of the United States heads the
National Archives and Records Administration, said the destroyed
documents had been judged by his agency to be "informal
laboratory notebooks containing technical data which is routine,
fragmentary or essentially duplicated in technical reports and papers."

  Moreover, said Dr. Cooper, "though the Navy responded to other
notices that came with this one, it raised no objection to carrying
out the scheduled disposal of the laboratory material."



Saturday February 7th, 1998
Copyright 1998, New York Times







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                       kywatch: Filer's Files #5-1998

From: skywatch_ok@msn.com [George A. Filer]
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:30:32 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 18:42:42 -0500
Subject: kywatch: Filer's Files #5-1998


******************************************************************
Filer's Files #5-1998  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
From George A. Filer:  MUFON Eastern Director,
February 6, 1998  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

Florida sightings increase and Astronaut claims Congressional Hearings likely.

GULF BREEZE, PENSACOLA, FLORIDA

Ray Pollock reports that he and Elise had a 25 minute sighting, while standing
in their  driveway January 31, 1998, starting at 6:22 and lasting until 6:47
p.m. in Pensacola.  Ray states: It was the typical red light "Bubba" of old.
It appeared approximately  half way between the horizon and the moon at that
time in the evening. It gradually moved north and rising until it was
approximately the same elevation in the sky as the moon from our vantage
point.  It moved perhaps 15-20 degrees to the north and then changed direction
to an east/southeast movement until it was around five degrees shy of directly
overhead and then faded out.  There was a dimming and brightening more or less
constantly during all this time,  though it remained various intensities of
red.  It did not go through the white phase, we have seen periodically in the
past. There was no sound associated with the sighting other than small planes
in the sky that were all moving in directions away from the object. Thought
you might like to know. There was another sighting reported in a different
location by Carole Baker. Still another group reported a sighting from a
different location, which was apparently the same object which we saw-based on
their description.

As an aside, Whitley Strieber has been here for the last couple of days doing
an article for Life Magazine and was present for another sighting in the Gulf
Breeze area.  See Carol's web site: www.deleree.com/skywatch-diary later in
February for a more detailed report on these sightings.

First, for those who think we saw an airliner. We live in an area bounded by a
very busy commercial airport (about 1 & 1/2 miles away).  At times when using
theeast-west runway, they come in low only a few hundred yards from our back
patio doors.  We are quite aware of what airliners can and do look like as
well as small private aircraft.  Add to that the fact our boundaries include a
busy Naval Air Station and one of the largest Air Force facilities in the U.S.
Do we know what all of these aircraft look like? You bet.  We have been
studying these for years,  just so we can recognize a UFO for what it is,
rather than being an airliner, military jet, C-130' s, etc.  I forgot that you
have no idea about "bubba" since none of you are apparently familiar with this
area.  The phenomena that has been on going here for the past 50 years.

The object was a rather brilliant at times red light -- it pulses from very
bright to moderately bright and occasionally will disappear completely.  Pulse
rate is around 7.5 times per second (earth frequency for the uninitiated).
(This has been pretty carefully checked a number of times on sequential video
frames.)  For the brilliant white phase it goes through at times (this
particular sighting did not) the frequency is generally 30 times per second.
It changes intensities between video frames at 1/30 second.  There is no
possibility of mistaking it for something else, we have witnessed these
objects hundreds of times. We've even had up close and personal sightings.
This includes a sighting of the what we call the Gulf Breeze craft where the
port holes, etc., were quite visible. It hovered stationary and silently over
the Shoreline Park area no more than a few hundred feet away.  These are not
imaginary, they are real. When you have had as many sightings of these craft
as we have, there will no room in your minds for even considering the
possibilities of mistaken identities or other mundane explanations to explain
these objects away. Believe me, it would be much simpler to ignore these
objects or even the possibility that there are such objects and get on with
the more mundane aspects of everyday life. However, for those of you who have
had abduction experiences, for example, you know very well, that that is no
longer possible.

PENSACOLA BEACH: I quote exactly from Anne Morrison's report of the January
30, 1998, sightings."Hi everyone, I wrote a brief description of the sightings
we had this weekend, thought you might like to read them.  Since, we did not
use a compass and inclinometer the elevation and azimuths are just rough
estimates.  We were at Pensacola Beach, at water's edge, the Dunes Hotel at
6:27 p.m., looking to the north to north west at approximately 30 to 40
degrees elevation, we saw a stationary red light which varied slowly in
intensity.  As we watched, some witnesses had binoculars, it very slowly moved
higher in the sky pulsing randomly as it moved.  It was slowly moving toward
the witnesses and took 8 to10 minutes to come directly over our heads.  Then
it moved to the east of us an slowly faded to white, then disappeared.  Almost
immediately, someone spotted another steady red light due east, but only 5 to7
degrees above the horizon and over the Gulf.  It remained in that position for
about 3 minutes then disappeared. There were several small planes in the sky
at the same time and were easily recognized as same.  There were twelve
witnesses, eight of whom have a great deal of experience seeing the Gulf
Breeze red light.  The sky was completely clear with a very light wind from
the south-southeast, the red object moved into the wind.  The sighting lasted
approximately 8 to 10 minutes.

On Saturday evening, January  31, 1998, we went to the last public parking
lot and boardwalk on Fort Pickens Road before you go into Fort Pickens,
Pensacola Beach.  We had barely arrived when we saw a steady red light to the
north-north west at about 7 degrees above the horizon. The red light was a
long way from us as it was not as bright as the night before.  It was so dim
at times that it was difficult to see without the aid of binoculars.  The
light appeared at about 6:27 p.m., and remained in view for 22 minutes.  It
moved very slowly appearing higher in the sky and going more east.  Because it
was so far away it is difficult to assess its exact path from our location.
At no time did any of us see any strobe lights, white or green with the red
light.  It was a single red light that varied randomly in intensity.  There
were some thin clouds in the distance. The sky over head was clear, the wind
was light and from the south at 5 mph according to the weather report.  There
were 11 witnesses. Just a side note, one of my more "sensitive friends" says
that the sightings will be increasing to an almost every night occurrence by
Spring. Thanks to Ray Pollock and Ann Morrison..  Editor's Note: If you want
to know more details about the Gulf Breeze sightings; I investigated in the
late 80s and early 90s and wrote the foreword to Dr. Bruce Maccabee's and Ed
Walter's excellent book: "UFOs Are Real, Here's the Proof" with are excellent
photographs.

TAMPA, FLORIDA

Hello,    My name is John Spicola and I believe I saw something about two
weeks ago above Tampa, but the funny thing is no one wants to talk to me about
it! I called two TV stations and all the media seems to be thinking about is
the President's affairs! I am not the only one who saw lights that night.
There were other reports by a TV station here in Tampa, WTVT Fox about the
lights. I learned of the other people who saw them also. Here is my story.
"It was 12:30 AM on a cool, but very clear Florida night, there were no
clouds, no lighting that is very rare for a Florida evening. It was the middle
of January, and it's beautiful here in the winter. I was walking my dog on the
sidewalk next to my neighbor's house and all of a sudden there was this
intense light. So stunning was this light that I cowered expecting to be hit
by something falling. So fast and bright was this light it left me stunned for
a couple of seconds.    There was no noise, car, airplane, helicopter anywhere
that I could hear. As my eyes adjusted to this brightness, the light turned
into about twenty spotlights; shining on the street, the sidewalk, my dog, and
me. I started to get mad. I said, to myself what helicopter, plane, could make
these lights appear straight above me. I then instinctively looked over my
right shoulder, and as I started to turn around the lights swirled to the
right as if the object was spinning away. Again there was no sound. The whole
thing took less that a minute and it was over. My little dog and I were just
left there as he did not whince or bark the whole time.    I had to ask my
self what happened?  I nervously walked back to my house and sat on my sofa. I
had just been watching TV so I knew the exact time, only five minutes had
past. I questioned my sanity for about a minute and said to myself something
was out there, but what? Then there was nothing but clear bright sky and many
stars. Thanks to John  Spicola JSpic44573@aol.com &Fl IUFOG-
L@listserv.aol.com.

ARIZONA

Arizona's new UFO flap swept into its second week with hundreds of sightings
reported in and around Phoenix and the city of Casa Grande. My position was
North of Casa Grande looking towards Phoenix, 30 miles away and looking in the
NE direction. This was only one formation of the four formations I observed on
January 18, 1998.  This  formation stayed basically fixed in this pattern for
a solid thirty minutes while #4 moved around in the formation. At one point #4
gotten so bright I almost had to put the binoculars down.  I had the
impression in  the back of my mind that it was going to land. A few seconds
later, it dimmed to the intensity of the other three orange globe lights in
this formation.   There was constant activity in the other 3 formations off to
the west, east and directly north of my position. I had a difficult time
trying to watch all four formations, since these lights would wink out then
back on in same position and then move close in and then out again. I could
make out structure with the binoculars when the lights would dim on some of
these orange globes. As I said, this activity was going on in the other
formations of two and three white to orange lights but this formation really
stood out. Then #4 really got bright. Brighter than I've ever seen on any
video so far.. Thanks to Robert Michael C.

UNITED KINGDOM

Victor Kean reports there were hundreds of reports of large Flying Triangles
(FT) over southeastern England last year. The Flying Triangles have, on
occasion, been first observed in the North Sea off the Suffolk coast. They
then generally visit one or more of the three coastal Nuclear Power Stations.
Project FT' is fortunate to have a stable team of experienced observers in
each of the main areas surrounding the Nuclear Power Stations (NPS).  These
began from the chance sighting of a FT by an avid ornothologist (bird watcher)
who armed with binoculars and notepad began to record her sightings back in
1993. The idea spread from county to county--Suffolk, Essex, Kent and so on.
Now our 'teams' work to a 'duty roster' and each FT sighting is 'confirmed' by
the observer telephoning his fellow observers in the same area and getting
them to look at the object.  The three main observation groups are *not* in
contact with each other, but channel they're observations into a central well-
established UFO research group who collate all the reports.  These in turn are
checked and transmitted 'down the line' for entry into the project's database.
Additional sighting reports from independent sources are verified by an
experienced researcher before acceptance.

Tell those skeptics that no aircraft would hover for 2 to 25 minutes over a
N.P. station...Just think of the consequences if it fell out of the sky due to
some 'malfunction'. The first 100 FT 'Work Periods' (WP) of 1997 has now been
entered into my Basic "FT Analysis"  program. All these are from the UK's
Nuclear Power Stations.   Looking at the 'Elapsed Times' i.e. The time
computed between the 'First' and 'Last" visit of each   WP there is a
noticeable decrease in these when the Full Moon is above the horizon.  I do
take your point that these are very small numbers i.e. only three (3) Full
Moons but nevertheless  the pattern holds for those first three.  As you will
appreciate, it will take time to enter the remaining  WPs of the year.  The
sudden step down in recorded times after 02:00hrs on March 30th 1997 is also
noticeable  though these do climb back up over the following WPs.  It is
almost as if the FT 'controllers'  realize from their NPS surveillance that a
change has occurred in the routine of the NP plant.  (Perhaps some particular
exercise/ change occurs around 'Midnight' by the clock and this has now
shifted by one hour.  I shall try to find out from my sources if this is so.)
There is a question of why should the FT be wary of being seen?   We all
thought they could make itself invisible. So, why doesn't it do so? More food
for thought. Thanks to Victor J. Kean and Project FT.

TASMANIA

Information from the Australia, NZ. National UFO Hotline February 1.
"Respondents report sighting two bright white triangular objects ripping
through the night sky over Devenport, Tasmania at 11.55 PM. The first object
sped passed at an incredible speed, a low altitude on a westerly heading. A
few seconds later, another white triangular object flew past on the same
course and bearing, however this object appeared to have a bright green light
or glow following it. The objects appeared to be identical in shape and color,
there was no sound. The objects were a definite right angle triangle shape,
"they appeared to be like the broad swept back wing of a stealth or delta
winged American spy craft". IPP has a new American  World Radio Monitoring
Centre direct at  0416 305 889. Thanks to: Ross Dowe (ippoz@eisa.net.au

MARS

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- NASA  officials unveiled a photograph February 2, 1998,
that proves for the first time that there was once a flowing river meandering
across the planet. Vice President Al Gore, who was on  hand for the unveiling,
joked that  scientists can now say "a river ran  through it." NASA scientists
say the photograph  does not confirm when the river  existed. But they
estimate that it was about 1 billion years ago. A second photo also unveiled
Monday revealed evidence of horizontal layers on the surface of Mars -- which
could prove Mars has something similar to the Grand Canyon in Arizona. Gore
and NASA officials showed the pictures at a briefing on the  research and
development portions of President Clinton's   proposed 1999 budget. The
administration has proposed increasing spending for research and development
to $78.2 billion. Gore described the discoveries about Mars as the "kinds of
new  facts that are so exciting to people in all fields." Gore said Clinton is
earmarking $170 billion over five years for  research and development, the
largest commitment to "key civilian  research" in U.S. history. " (CNN)

STANTON T. FRIEDMAN

Stanton appeared on the UPN television show, "Incident in Lake County,"
broadcast on January 20, 1998. I asked Stanton for his opinion of the show. He
writes: "George: I have indeed expressed my strong feelings on the UFO Updates
out of Toronto and on Monday night on the Jeff Rense and Art Bell shows. I was
asked to be interviewed in Los Angeles by somebody doing a quick fix up of  a
show for Dick Clark Productions on alien abductions. A call on Dec. 31,
arrangements on Jan. 1, fly to LA on Jan 2, (four time zones away). On Jan. 3,
I was interviewed for over an hour by a woman very knowledgeable about UFO
abductions. The questions were general. That evening I caught a red eye after
spending three hours with my daughter. I was never shown the video. I was not
asked about the video. I was asked questions about abductions, which I
answered to the best of my ability having been involved for 30 years with
various abductees such as Betty and Barney Hill, Travis Walton, etc. The show
was not broadcast here so I only recently saw  a tape. There is no question
that the video is a dramatic non factual, fiction effort, and not a very good
one. I have contacted the FCC, Dick Clark Productions, and UPN because I
understand that much of their press advertising was deceptive and because the
show will apparently be broadcast again after Feb. 20. No news to report. At
the very least there should have been a disclaimer saying none of the Experts
had viewed the video prior to their interviews or were asked about it. No
press listings should have had it under documentaries. I responded to many E-
mail complaints. Nobody complained about what I said or how I said it. False
arguments were made that the show involved the notorious Robert Kiviat of
Alien Autopsy fame.  Regards, Stan Friedman.
Editors Note: Stan did a good job on the show. However,  he agrees with us
that the show was a non-factual, fictional dramatic presentation and not the
actual documentary of an abduction they advertised.

ASTRONAUT EDGAR MITCHELL

MUFON's John Thompson writes.  "By pure coincidence after getting CSETI's e-
mail this morning, urging all to contact their federal representatives to ask
for congressional hearings on UFOs, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, former moon walker,
was on the United Broadcasting Network (UBN) Radio today. Knowing that he was
involved in Dr. Steven Greer's CSETI effort, I called UBN and was able to talk
to him. He said, Many think that efforts for Congressional UFO Hearings have
gone no where, but the real news is that behind the scenes many congressional
leaders have been agreeing, that they should take place.  It is Mitchell's
belief that Congressional Hearings will take place and they may be started
relatively soon.
It was encouraging to hear this from him and it is clear that he thinks
momentum is still building. P.S.: I just received another e-mail from Tony
Craddock of CSETI who says  "committee chairs" should be contacted and not
"local representatives.  Draft up a letter or fax, and send now." Thanks to
John Thompson our former Georgia Director who always does a great job. He is
now our State Section Director.

GOVERNMENT AND UFOs

There are indications that our government for the first time in thirty years
is starting to take UFOs more seriously.  This may be in part caused by MUFON,
the Fund for UFO Research, CUFOS, Skywatch International, ISUR, Citizens
Against UFO Secrecy and particularly CESTI all campaigning for a Congressional
Hearings into the matter. The White House has apparently directed specific
questions about UFOs to various branches of government.  Astronauts Edgar
Mitchell, Gordon Cooper and many former military personnel have spoken out on
what they know. The D.C. briefing to Congressional staff personnel that I
participated in on April 9th may be bearing fruit.  Also, these Files your
reading are being sent to several congressman. Meanwhile, new technology is
beginning to explain the flight characteristics of UFOs.

Extensive wind tunnel tests at comparitively slow speeds indicated the disc
shape was not an effective airfoil for flight. Further, tests indicated the
disc unstable in flight. However, new data from Mach 25 shock wind tunnel
tests indicate the shape is ideal at high speeds.  In an Aviation Week & Space
Technology,(5/15/95, pages 66 & 67), article entitled 'Air Spike' Could Ease
Hypersonic Flight Problems." The article discuses means of creating a plasma
sheath around an air vehicle to prevent overheating at hypersonic speeds. The
research was done at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. "With this
capability, traditional hypersonic design rules would change, and ultra-light,
blunt-bodied,  lens-shaped or saucer-shaped single-stage-to-orbit vehicles
could emerge." Steven J. Dunn of Current Encounters states, "If you follow the
descriptions of the test vehicles used in the Mach 25 shock tunnel, you will
find configurations that match common the photographs of UFOs.  The shock
tunnel studies have proved that the disc shaped objects are ideally suited for
travelling at 25 times the speed of sound or roughly 15,000 mph. These speeds
are ideal for getting a craft into orbit around the Earth.  These studies
prove what Ufologists have known for years. UFOs have an excellent design for
high speed travel.

My speculation is that White House and Ufologist pressure has created a need
for our intelligence satellites to scan the heavens for potential alien
invaders. Some of our intelligence satellites are not only scanning the Earth
for a possible enemy threat, but piggy backed on these satellites are sensors
looking out an scanning deep space.  The sensors  have recently been
programmed to pick up fast moving objects known as 'Fast Walkers' as far out
in space as the asteroid belt. Early indications are that UFO  'Fast Walkers'
are now being tracked in deep space. Our sensors and computers at NORAD keep
track of all known objects in Earth orbit. These are called, 'Correlated
Targets.' Unconfirmed reports are that at least once a week, an unidentified
or 'Uncorrelated Target' is tracked entering the atmosphere.  "These
unidentified returns not in our computer data banks, may be alien space
craft." Some unidentified or Uncorrelated Targets also leave the Earth's
atmosphere. The organization now responsible for keeping track of the
unidentified objects is the new Imagery and Mapping Agency, (IMA).  If craft
are reaching us from space, they appear to be in very small numbers.  Further,
the speculation is that the craft may be entering and leaving the oceans or
secret bases. The possibility that underwater bases are being used is gaining
support.


__________________________________________________________________
SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC.
(A Non-Profit Organization)
Administrative:
3579 E. Foothill Blvd. #506
Pasadena, CA 91107
USA











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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:26:07 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 02:52:59 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:57:22 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> Alex,

> You could only see lens flare travel around the sky if you were
> looking THROUGH the camera and moving it.  If you saw this with
> your naked eye and then caught it on camera, that would be very
> different.

> Maybe the aliens have learned to cleverly disguise their craft
> so that they look just like lens flare in photos!!

> Bob


Hi Bob,

This ORB was seen with my eyes, did you read the story?

thanks,
ALEX CAVALLARI







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:03:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 02:52:05 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:20:41 +1030
>From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>Hello Bob and other list members.

>In my posting I did NOT  include the photographs, as this was
>not the "focus" of my question. [The inclusion was mine. --ebk]

>The witness had described, in some detail, the movements of the
>"unknown," and that the whole event had a duration of
>approximately 12 minutes.  I notice, also, that the object had
>been seen in the direction of Kennedy Airport, by the witness,
>BEFORE he had looked through his camera viewfinder.

>Could a lens flare behave in such a fashion, AND move around for
>12 minutes?

>My question to the list was, in fact, asking if anyone had had
>any experience with "rapport"/"communication" etc. with
>"UNKNOWNS."

>My area of study is not so much photographic, as "communication."

>Thank you.

>JJ

JJ,

No, a lens flare could not behave as described, UNLESS it was
only seen through the viewfinder of the camera.  This JPEG that
Errol sent is not high res enough to stand much enlargement, but
it has all of the characteristics of lens flare caused by the sun
just outside the image frame as it would show up in a cheap
camera with a circular aperture.  Better cameras usually have
hexagonal, pentagonal or octagonal apertures, and the lens flares
assume those shapes.

It would help to know precisely what brand and model of camera
was used and what type of film.

In the meanwhile, I don't think there is much profit in
attempting communication with lens flares.

Bob









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               Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...]

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 13:46:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 09:09:34 -0500
Subject: Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...]

> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:58:06 +0000
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: u9501676@bournemouth.ac.uk (Simon Cleggett)
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

<snip>

> Many
> publications show pictures of circular anomolies on the ground
> (not crop circles) and interpret them as evidence of alien
> landings.I would suggest that at least 99% of these are simply
> archaeological features dating to no later than the late
> Iron-Age.

I have seen these "swirls" in a backyard in the Los Angeles area
(at least I assume these are what you are referring to).  They
were brand new and looked very much like the pictures associated
with the Billy Meier case.  These swirls appeared the night that
the inhabitants in the house saw a lot of red light filtering in
from the backyard.

> Why are archaeologists excluded from the scientific study of
> ufology?

They aren't. They may be excluding themselves, but that's a different
idea. ;-)

> I am interested in the role of sightings in antiquity and whether
> prehistoric man was influenced temporaly/spiritually by the
> phenomenon. Cave art and contemporary carvings seem to be devoid
> of any depictions of such encounters.

Cave art shows many examples of modern day-style Greys and other
nonhuman forms.  John Carpenter has assembled a lecture on this
subject and you can hear him discuss this briefly as part of his
interview now available via Netshow at:

http:www.forums.msn.com/UFO/


--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
ICQ Pager 6797092







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:09:22 +1030
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 09:12:19 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:26:15 EST
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:14:59 -0500
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY

> >Nope,

> >Lens flare.  Plain and simple.  The characteristic color
> > is a dead give away.

> >Put this one in the circular file.

> >Bob

> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> HI BOB,

> I do not know how I could see lens flare travel around the sky
> and I do agree it even looks like it. I will try to find the
> other pics/story I have of a sphere that was filmed with others
> viewing it with me from last year for you to "check out".

> I think we must remember that just because something looks like
> what we think it is does not mean that is what it is.

> thanks,

> ALEX CAVALLARI


Hi Alex!!

May I ask you, the WITNESS to this event,  whether YOU felt
that you had experienced some form of "communication" with the
"unknown?"  You did briefly mention the subject, but would you be
willing to elaborate on that at all?

I also notice that this discussion has strayed into the realms of
proving or disproving something to be a LENS FLARE. I did not
even post your photographs!!!! I was commenting on your
description of the sighting.

My original question was that of "communication" and whether other
list members had experienced same when observing such "objects."
Best wishes.

JJ








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 09:20:19 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>From: werd@interlog.com
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:57:24 -0500 (EST)
>X-Sender: werd@mail.interlog.com
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>Alex,

>Why did you not center the "sphere" in your frame area instead of having it
>off to the other side of the frame from the sun? (Exactly where one would
>expect a lens flare).

>As a professional photographer I would like to state categorically that
>this is a lens flare. Sorry I can only speak to what I see, not any other
>references to what you saw before or after taking the picture.

>Drew Williamson


HI DREW,

The image has the orb in that location because as it was moving ,
while it was doing its "thing" I  was trying to capture it on
film , I took many pics during this event and never saw any lens
flare through my camera . It is not like the orb posed or stood
still for me to film it, as soon as I saw it in the camera I took
pics, Where it ended up it ended up. I already said that I agree
it looks like lens flare but I know it was not. There is probably
no way I could prove this even if I had 100 other witnesses , it
appears that as long as the so called "experts" voice there
opinions that is the final word, well I think the "experts"
should start to understand that it is possible for them to make
an incorrect assesment of something. If I saw any lens flare
through the camera during this I would say so, I do not want
false or misleading info to be presented to the ufo community.
The orb was very much the color in the pic and I guess it is
possible for lens flare and the orb to be close in colors.

I am not new to the ufo field and have many years of experience
and I do not put out what I believe are false reports or
pictures.

Is it possible for any of the film "experts" to plot the lens in
the camera to know if the camera is capable of producing lens
flare at that part of the lens? Is it impossible to get lens
flare in the middle / center of a image? I do have other pics of
this ORB and I might consider releasing them if I can be
convinced that this is lens flare but so far no one in my opinion
has done that.

I have seen many orb pics, some were of orbs of different colors
some white and most if not all were called lens flare by the
"experts" at some point in time. So I guess as long as a orb is
the color and in a possible posiotin to be considered lens flare,
thats what the "experts" will call it, even if that is
incorrect.

I thank all the people who have emailed with there opinions and
am not in the least bit bothered by the negative ones, I think
this is what should be.

So, I do no know what else I can say about the event except I
would be glad to take a lie detector test / voice stress analysis
etc to help support what I claimed happened.

thanks,
ALEX CAVALLARI







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                            Re: Black Helicopter

From: Kerry Ferrand <kferrand@rocketmail.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 09:49:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Black Helicopter


> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 13:55:26 +0100
> From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Black Helicopter


> That chopper looks to me like a 3 rotor Huey or a  Mitubishi,
> more likely the latter. It certainly is a conventional helicopter
> of some type. it has elevons, tail rotor, stinger to protect tail
> rotor from tail low landings.

I'm pretty sure its a french Eurocopter (or Aerospatiale) AS350
"Squirrel" A pretty common aircraft in our skies here and widely
used by all sorts of civil organisations. I think they may be
sold under a different name in the US. The nose mount is a little
unusual..all Ive seen use a mounting underneath just forward of
the tail boom for spotlights/cameras etc..but thats probably just
one option.

K








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             Re: Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...]

From: "Keith M. King" <alien2@sound.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 18:58:21
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 09:35:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...]


>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:58:06 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: u9501676@bournemouth.ac.uk (Simon Cleggett)
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY

<snip>

>I would be interested to hear from any serious ufo
>researchers that agree with the fundamental role that
>archaeologists could have to play in this arena.


I, too, would be eager to see any and all interested
archeaologists involved with ufology based solely upon the
premise of these "ancient astronauts" theories that have been
popular since perhaps the late 60's/early 70's.  I'm not sure
whether or not I agree with them (proponents), but it does
deserve a closer SCIENTIFIC evaluation then it has gotten to this
point.   Good luck, my friend.

Keith M. King
M. King Studies








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             Re: Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...]

From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:24:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 09:56:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...]


> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:58:06 +0000
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: u9501676@bournemouth.ac.uk (Simon Cleggett)
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY


Ted Phillips has collected more than 5000 physical trace cases
wherein people saw the saucer on or near the ground and
subsequently the rings or circles were observed. I think there
needs to be a far better definition of what is meant by
circles.. NOT crop circles but not collections of stones either.

Which pictures?

Stan Friedman







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:09:48 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 09:56:45 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:57:22 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:26:15 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>>HI BOB,

>>I do not know how I could see lens flare travel around the sky
>>and I do agree it even looks like it. I will try to find the
>>other pics/story I have of a sphere that was filmed with others
>>viewing it with me from last year for you to "check out".

>>I think we must remember that just because something looks like
>>what we think it is does not mean that is what it is.

>>thanks,

>>ALEX CAVALLARI

>Alex,

>You could only see lens flare travel around the sky if you were
>looking THROUGH the camera and moving it.  If you saw this with
>your naked eye and then caught it on camera, that would be very
>different.

>Maybe the aliens have learned to cleverly disguise their craft
>so that they look just like lens flare in photos!!

>Bob

Hi Bob,

There's a lot to your last conjecture!  This is precisely what's
happened over and over.  At night they often flash red, green &
white lights to simulate aircraft lighting, but do it wrong in
some fashion to let the careful observer know.  I think Bruce
Cornet was perhaps the first to document on video or film at
night the abrupt transformation of what looked rather like
aircraft lighting to what had to be a UFO.

And then there're the black "helicopters" that have flown
recklessly low around abductees' houses, etc., and sometimes made
no noise whatsoever.  (I don't buy the idea that our military has
been able to develop totally silent helicopters, and then engage
in such maneuvers.)

And then there are the UFOs at night that are just points of
light, and when they don't dart around they just hover still and
pass themselves off as a star.  Prof. Harley Rutledge (sp?) has
documented some of them.

And then there were the pseudo-airships of the 1890s that Jerry
Clark once investigated and wrote up.

So a flying lens flare seems to be the latest.

Jim Deardorff








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:20:09 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 09:40:16 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:35:22 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:14:59 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY


>REGARDING UFO ORB...

>Lens flare was my initial impression...when I noticed the
>considerable increase in brightness moving to the left in the
>picture, suggesting the sun was just to the left of the field of
>view.

>However, if it was actually seen prior to the picture being
>taken, then the witness testimony must be weight against the
>potential explanation....


Bob, Bruce and list members,

At great risk of starting the 'Eyewitness Testimony' thread
again, I don't think it should be given much credence at all.
It is impossible to examine eyewitness testimony under a
magnifying glass or any other technique.

At great risk of raising the rule of Parsimony, or 'Occam's
Razor' thread again, we should be looking for the simplest
solution before we resort to extraterrestrials.

That's my two cents. How much would two cents weigh? <g>

Drew Williamson









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                                Posting Rules

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 11:17:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 11:17:59 -0500
Subject: Posting Rules

ebk


                            Posting Rules


       To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and
       the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at:

                   http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates

       please observe the following rules when posting to the List.


 1.    Line-length

       Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long

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       When responding to a message from the List, _always_ include the
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                >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST
                >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts>
                >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
                >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area

       Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you
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       Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum:  Just
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       Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol
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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:44:15 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 11:30:35 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:26:07 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:57:22 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>> Alex,


>> You could only see lens flare travel around the sky if you were
>> looking THROUGH the camera and moving it.  If you saw this with
>> your naked eye and then caught it on camera, that would be very
>> different.

>> Maybe the aliens have learned to cleverly disguise their craft
>> so that they look just like lens flare in photos!!

>> Bob


>Hi Bob,

> This ORB was seen with my eyes, did you read the story?
> thanks,

>ALEX CAVALLARI


Alex,

Don't even waste your time responding to people who aren't taking
you seriously and trying to make you look like a hoaxer. How many
times do you have to tell them that you saw it with your eyes? If
people can help you great, but if all they want to do is question
your intelligence then you have to ask yourself, why?

Even if the 'object' was a lens flare, (and I doubt that it was
since you said you saw it with your eyes first) that doesn't
answer Jennifer's question regarding the success of
telepathically communicating with such objects.

Let me try to get an answer for you. This is for anybody on this
List who can help Jennifer out. If I see a big grey, silvery disc
shaped object hovering over my house, and 20 people in attendance
all see it too, how could we try to communicate with it? Has
anybody had luck in trying to communicate with similar unknown
objects? Please address your experiences to Jennifer or Alex.

Thanks!

Joe Murgia







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                   Re: Another old case recently uncovered

From: "Larry Hatch" <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 06:38:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 11:22:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Another old case recently uncovered


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
>Subject: Another old case recently uncovered
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 19:36:33 -0600 (CST)


>Hi all. Since people are getting into typing up old cases from
>the archives, I thought I'd contribute a little something along
>this line, too. (I think it's a great idea, BTW, because a lot of
>classic cases are so far not available in electronic format for
>newbies to obtain via the web.)

<snip>

Thank you for the Selkirk, Manitoba 22JLY54 sighting.

I already had the Winnipeg sighting, (about an hour
earlier or 1930 hrs )  which states that very similar
objects were seen headed West.    This is good
verification from a totally independant source, and I
am adding Selkirk to the *U* UFO Database.

-  Larry Hatch






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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:43:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:05:25 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:35:22 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:14:59 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY


>REGARDING UFO ORB...

>Lens flare was my initial impression...when I noticed the
>considerable increase in brightness moving to the left in the
>picture, suggesting the sun was just to the left of the field of
>view.

>However, if it was actually seen prior to the picture being
>taken, then the witness testimony must be weight against the
>potential explanation....

Bruce,

I think it is lens flare.

That DOES NOT mean that the photographer didn't see anything.

To me it just means that the photographer didn't capture it on
film, but when the film came back the convenient lens flare was
latched onto as a photo of the sphere.

I'm waiting for info on the camera brand and model number.  If
the camera does not have a round lens aperture, then it might not
be lens flare.  I am pretty confident that it will turn out that
this was taken with a camera with round "Waterhouse stop"
diaphragm instead of a multi blade hex design.

Bob









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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:14:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 11:38:53 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:20:09 -0500 (EST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:35:22 -0500
> >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:14:59 -0500
> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY


<snipped>

>That's my two cents. How much would two cents weight? <g>


Drew:

In ufology some people's two cents out weigh other people's
million dollars.  If it didn't, we would all now be on the
'Heaven's Gate' ship. Or we wouldn't have nearly the number
of impoverished ufologists we now do. <BG>

Thanks.

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/


> Bob, Bruce and list members,
>
> At great risk of starting the 'Eyewitness Testimony' thread
> again, I don't think it should be given much credence at all.
> It is impossible to examine eyewitness testimony under a
> magnifying glass or any other technique.
>
> At great risk of raising the rule of Parsimony, or 'Occam's
> Razor' thread again, we should be looking for the simplest
> solution before we resort to extraterrestrials.
>
> That's my two cents. How much would two cents weigh? <g>
>
> Drew Williamson









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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:49:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:13:20 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >From: werd@interlog.com
> >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:57:24 -0500 (EST)
> >X-Sender: werd@mail.interlog.com
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >Alex,

> >Why did you not center the "sphere" in your frame area instead of having it
> >off to the other side of the frame from the sun? (Exactly where one would
> >expect a lens flare).

> >As a professional photographer I would like to state categorically that
> >this is a lens flare. Sorry I can only speak to what I see, not any other
> >references to what you saw before or after taking the picture.

> >Drew Williamson

> HI DREW,

> The image has the orb in that location because as it was moving ,
> while it was doing its "thing" I  was trying to capture it on
> film , I took many pics during this event and never saw any lens
> flare through my camera . It is not like the orb posed or stood
> still for me to film it, as soon as I saw it in the camera I took
> pics, Where it ended up it ended up. I already said that I agree
> it looks like lens flare but I know it was not. There is probably
> no way I could prove this even if I had 100 other witnesses , it
> appears that as long as the so called "experts" voice there
> opinions that is the final word, well I think the "experts"
> should start to understand that it is possible for them to make
> an incorrect assesment of something. If I saw any lens flare
> through the camera during this I would say so, I do not want
> false or misleading info to be presented to the ufo community.
> The orb was very much the color in the pic and I guess it is
> possible for lens flare and the orb to be close in colors.

> I am not new to the ufo field and have many years of experience
> and I do not put out what I believe are false reports or
> pictures.

> Is it possible for any of the film "experts" to plot the lens in
> the camera to know if the camera is capable of producing lens
> flare at that part of the lens? Is it impossible to get lens
> flare in the middle / center of a image? I do have other pics of
> this ORB and I might consider releasing them if I can be
> convinced that this is lens flare but so far no one in my opinion
> has done that.

> I have seen many orb pics, some were of orbs of different colors
> some white and most if not all were called lens flare by the
> "experts" at some point in time. So I guess as long as a orb is
> the color and in a possible posiotin to be considered lens flare,
> thats what the "experts" will call it, even if that is
> incorrect.

> I thank all the people who have emailed with there opinions and
> am not in the least bit bothered by the negative ones, I think
> this is what should be.

> So, I do no know what else I can say about the event except I
> would be glad to take a lie detector test / voice stress analysis
> etc to help support what I claimed happened.

> thanks,
> ALEX CAVALLARI

Hi Alex,

What happens is that some of the people who subscribe to the list
don't read all of the data that comes in but just target certain
areas. I find this a bit maddening because you have to keep
explaining yourself over and over, thereby making yourself look
defensive.

I've had this happen to me more than a few times and I won't
waste my time on it.

The guy sez, he saw the thing then took a picture of it. Accept
that and move on, otherwise you're calling him a liar. If we took
that attitude with all of our witnesses, and it got around, where
the hell would we be?

Don Ledger







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                    Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'... - The Camera?

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:12:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:28:32 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'... - The Camera?

>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>HI DREW,

>The image has the orb in that location because as it was moving ,
>while it was doing its "thing" I  was trying to capture it on
>film , I took many pics during this event and never saw any lens
>flare through my camera . It is not like the orb posed or stood
>still for me to film it, as soon as I saw it in the camera I took
>pics, Where it ended up it ended up. I already said that I agree
>it looks like lens flare but I know it was not. There is probably
>no way I could prove this even if I had 100 other witnesses , it
>appears that as long as the so called "experts" voice there
>opinions that is the final word, well I think the "experts"
>should start to understand that it is possible for them to make
>an incorrect assesment of something. If I saw any lens flare
>through the camera during this I would say so, I do not want
>false or misleading info to be presented to the ufo community.
>The orb was very much the color in the pic and I guess it is
>possible for lens flare and the orb to be close in colors.

>I am not new to the ufo field and have many years of experience
>and I do not put out what I believe are false reports or
>pictures.

>Is it possible for any of the film "experts" to plot the lens in
>the camera to know if the camera is capable of producing lens
>flare at that part of the lens? Is it impossible to get lens
>flare in the middle / center of a image? I do have other pics of
>this ORB and I might consider releasing them if I can be
>convinced that this is lens flare but so far no one in my opinion
>has done that.

>I have seen many orb pics, some were of orbs of different colors
>some white and most if not all were called lens flare by the
>"experts" at some point in time. So I guess as long as a orb is
>the color and in a possible posiotin to be considered lens flare,
>thats what the "experts" will call it, even if that is
>incorrect.

>I thank all the people who have emailed with there opinions and
>am not in the least bit bothered by the negative ones, I think
>this is what should be.

>So, I do no know what else I can say about the event except I
>would be glad to take a lie detector test / voice stress analysis
>etc to help support what I claimed happened.

>thanks,

>ALEX CAVALLARI


Alex,

In all of your posts it is like you are evading the one important
question I asked, WHAT camera did you use??

If you had a non-SLR camera, you could not see lens flare even if
it was there.  If you had an SLR, most of the time you would not
see the lens flare because the lens is wide open for viewing, but
the diaphragm closes down to take the picture.  Lens flare is
more likely at smaller diaphragm openings.

Tell us about the camera!!!!!!!

Bob









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                          Communication with UFOs?

From: "bruce white" <b.white@michianatoday.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:54:26 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:22:10 -0500
Subject: Communication with UFOs?


>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:09:22 +1030
>From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

<snipped>

>Hi Alex!!

>May I ask you, the WITNESS to this event,  whether YOU felt
>that you had experienced some form of "communication" with the
>"unknown?"  You did briefly mention the subject, but would you be
>willing to elaborate on that at all?


JJ,

Your interest in communication prompts me to post this to you.

In the summer of 1974 while looking at the night sky, and using a
small telescope. My son and I were attracted to a yellow cast
light low on the horizon. We tried to focus on it but could not
and soon found that it seemed to be moving toward us. Almost as
though we attracted it? It moved closer and we moved out of the
shadows into a clear field next to our house. The light stopped
moving toward us and now started to move north passing in front
of us.

It moved too slowly to be an airplane. It made no sound and could
not have been a balloon. Suddenly the light went out. I made
mental note of where it went out. It was almost under a big star.
As we stood there looking and wondering the light came back on.
It had passed under the star and continued on. It never changed
it's slow speed but the light did go off again several times.

Finally leaving our field of view we went to bed. The next day I
awoke with a compulsion. Over and over I relived the event. I
have never had an experience effect me like that. I worked the
afternoon shift at the time so I didn't return home until after
midnight. I was compelled to go to the field to visualize again
the events of the night before. As I imagined the place in the
sky where the light went out I saw that the big bright star was
gone. As soon as I became aware that the big bright star was no
star, my compulsion was gone. I have often wondered how the
compulsion was turned on and off, and if that experience was
designed to convince me that there are more living here than just
mankind. If so it worked. Strange as it may seem a friend that I
worked with also had a similar experience.

This may not be communication as you would expect, but I felt
moved to share it with you.

Bruce








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:57:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:28:37 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:26:07 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:57:22 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>> Alex,

>> You could only see lens flare travel around the sky if you were
>> looking THROUGH the camera and moving it.  If you saw this with
>> your naked eye and then caught it on camera, that would be very
>> different.

>> Maybe the aliens have learned to cleverly disguise their craft
>> so that they look just like lens flare in photos!!

>> Bob


>Hi Bob,

>This ORB was seen with my eyes, did you read the story?

>thanks,
>ALEX CAVALLARI

Alex,

Yes I read your story, and I am not calling you a liar.

You may well have seen an orb and photographed lens
flare and missed the orb in the photo. It would not be
the first time.

I still am convinced that the photo shows nothing but
lens flare.  Doesn't say anything about your story
one way or the other.

Please supply tecnical info on camera.  Brand, model
number, etc., as well as film brand and type.  This info
should ALWAYS accompany any purported UFO photograph.

Bob










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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:19:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:36:44 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

Just a note to all that I will be away all next week.  I am
interested in following this story about the Orb, so will
catch up on messages next week.

Hopefully more detailed information will be forthcoming.

Bob










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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:18:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:35:39 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:20:09 -0500 (EST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Bob, Bruce and list members,

>At great risk of starting the 'Eyewitness Testimony' thread
>again, I don't think it should be given much credence at all.
>It is impossible to examine eyewitness testimony under a
>magnifying glass or any other technique.

>At great risk of raising the rule of Parsimony, or 'Occam's
>Razor' thread again, we should be looking for the simplest
>solution before we resort to extraterrestrials.

>That's my two cents. How much would two cents weigh? <g>

>Drew Williamson


Agreed.  I think that ET explanations should be a last resort
when all 'normal' explanations have been ruled out.

Bob










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                                     Re:

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:24:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:41:41 -0500
Subject: Re:

>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:09:48 -0800 (PST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Hi Bob,

>There's a lot to your last conjecture!  This is precisely what's
>happened over and over.  At night they often flash red, green &
>white lights to simulate aircraft lighting, but do it wrong in
>some fashion to let the careful observer know.  I think Bruce
>Cornet was perhaps the first to document on video or film at
>night the abrupt transformation of what looked rather like
>aircraft lighting to what had to be a UFO.

>And then there're the black "helicopters" that have flown
>recklessly low around abductees' houses, etc., and sometimes made
>no noise whatsoever.  (I don't buy the idea that our military has
>been able to develop totally silent helicopters, and then engage
>in such maneuvers.)

>And then there are the UFOs at night that are just points of
>light, and when they don't dart around they just hover still and
>pass themselves off as a star.  Prof. Harley Rutledge (sp?) has
>documented some of them.

>And then there were the pseudo-airships of the 1890s that Jerry
>Clark once investigated and wrote up.

>So a flying lens flare seems to be the latest.

>Jim Deardorff

Jim,

I do think our miliary has developed silent aircraft.
Technically it is just a matter of wave dynamics and generating
sound waves to cancel out those made by the aircraft.  The
technology is very simple, but the amplifier power would be the
difficult part.  But maybe there is a way to feed the cancelling
waves directly into the structure of the aircraft, in which case
they could be dead silent.

Bob










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             Re: Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...]

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:32:07 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:47:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Archeologists & UFOs [was: 'UFO Sphere/Orb...]

>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 13:46:40 -0800
>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:58:06 +0000
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> From: u9501676@bournemouth.ac.uk (Simon Cleggett)
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

><snip>

>> Many
>> publications show pictures of circular anomolies on the ground
>> (not crop circles) and interpret them as evidence of alien
>> landings.I would suggest that at least 99% of these are simply
>> archaeological features dating to no later than the late
>> Iron-Age.

>I have seen these "swirls" in a backyard in the Los Angeles area
>(at least I assume these are what you are referring to).  They
>were brand new and looked very much like the pictures associated
>with the Billy Meier case.  These swirls appeared the night that
>the inhabitants in the house saw a lot of red light filtering in
>from the backyard.

>> Why are archaeologists excluded from the scientific study of
>> ufology?

>They aren't. They may be excluding themselves, but that's a different
>idea. ;-)

>> I am interested in the role of sightings in antiquity and whether
>> prehistoric man was influenced temporaly/spiritually by the
>> phenomenon. Cave art and contemporary carvings seem to be devoid
>> of any depictions of such encounters.

>Cave art shows many examples of modern day-style Greys and other
>nonhuman forms.  John Carpenter has assembled a lecture on this
>subject and you can hear him discuss this briefly as part of his
>interview now available via Netshow at:

>http://www.forums.msn.com/UFO/

I edited this address...you origionally left out the "//" in your
origional message and it could not find this address.

REgards, Mike



     Search for other documents from or mentioning: mchristo | turel33 |





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                          Re: Archeologists & UFOs

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 11:10:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:59:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Archeologists & UFOs


>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:24:29 -0400
>From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:58:06 +0000
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> From: u9501676@bournemouth.ac.uk (Simon Cleggett)
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY


>Ted Phillips has collected more than 5000 physical trace cases
>wherein people saw the saucer on or near the ground and
>subsequently the rings or circles were observed. I think there
>needs to be a far better definition of what is meant by
>circles.. NOT crop circles but not collections of stones either.

>Which pictures?

>Stan Friedman


Oh, by the way Stan...

In my previous message to you regarding this topic, I neglected
to mention another incident, which left more than just 'trace'
elements.

A farmer in Western Daviess County, saw a light decend behind the
trees on his farm and appear to land.  Since it was dark, he did
not want to stumble around out there in the dark, so he waited
until the next morning.

The next morning he surveyed the area where he had seen the
object appear to land, and didn't find anything.  This was in
late winter.

When he started his spring plowing, he noticed something
interesting in the area where he remembered seeing the light
decend into his field.

The field was still slightly frozen near the tree and fence line.
 He walked over to the object and noticed that it was an imprint,
pressed and compacted into the mud, of a small disk about three
inches in diameter, with a nipple abut two inches long protruding
from the bottom of it. Since it was hard and compacted, he picked
it and took it home with him and made a plaster cast of the
imprint.

After it was examined, it looked as though it could have been a
"pressure" sensor attatched to the foot of a larger foot pad.  In
other words, the nipple was the first thing to become imbedded in
the soil, followed by the small three inch disk, which supposedly
measured the density and integrity of ths soil, so it could be
determined if the large landing pad could be supported by the
soil.

Sure this is all speculation, but, one thing is sure.  I have
seen the plaster cast of this casting.  I have a video copy of
it.


The thing just "popped" up out of the ground intact when the
spring thaw happened.

This is the only "evidence" the farmer had to support his
sighting.

Just another tid bit of history from Space_Link UFO Archives.
<G>

REgards, Mike




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   Feb > Feb 8

                          Re: Archeologists & UFOs

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:57:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:51:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Archeologists & UFOs


>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:24:29 -0400
>From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:58:06 +0000
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> From: u9501676@bournemouth.ac.uk (Simon Cleggett)
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY


>Ted Phillips has collected more than 5000 physical trace cases
>wherein people saw the saucer on or near the ground and
>subsequently the rings or circles were observed. I think there
>needs to be a far better definition of what is meant by
>circles.. NOT crop circles but not collections of stones either.

>Which pictures?

>Stan Friedman

Hi Stan...

Back in 1967, I investigated a "burned circle" in a farmer's soy
bean field.  I took samples of the dried bean plants and the soil
within the circle.  The circle was about 30 feet across.

The farmer described hearing a noise like squeeling tires, and
thought some young people may have been using the straight
stretch of roadway by his house to drag race.  Coming out on his
front porch, he heard a slight "pop" sound and caught a glimpse
of a flash of light out of the corner of his left eye.  He turned
his head toward the flash and sound, to see what he described as
a beer can shaped object rising straight up out of his soy bean
field (approx) 100 yards from his front porch.  He described what
appeared to be a trail of flame emiting from the rear of this
object.

He then stated that the object rose to an altitude of
approximately 100 feet, tilted over in a horizontal position, and
preceed to exit the area very quickly toward the North.

An associate of mine, who had access to a small Cessna later flew
over the field and took photographs.  They showed  a "V" shaped
pattern of "burned" soy bean plant tops in the direction which
the farmer said the object departed, or North.  The "V" pattern
was about the width of the circle at the edge of said circle, and
stretched out about a 100 feet as it narrowed in the direction
the object disappeared.

The farmer said the object was completely out of sight in no more
than 30 seconds at most, growing smaller as it proceeded in
direct flight North.

Getting back to the samples I took, I sent them to NICAP along
with a description of the incident.

About six weeks later, I received a return letter from NICAP,
thanking me for sending the plants and the report, advising me
they would contact the gentleman themselves to continue the
investigation.

That was the last I heard from them.

I did not follow up on the investigation.  I had photographs,
soil and plant samples and a tape recording of the conversation
with the farmer. He had my phone number in case any such event
occurred again.

I have never heard from him again.  I would suspect that it is
highly likely that this person is deceased today, nearly 30 years
later.  He was in his late 50's to early 60's back then...I can't
remember right off of the top of my head.

Just thought you might like to hear about this case from my "UFO
ARCHIVES."

<G>

REgards, Mike




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   Feb > Feb 8

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 6

From: Masinaigan@aol.com [Joseph Trainor]
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:39:45 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 6


     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 6
February 8, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

BLACK HELICOPTER CHASES
UFO OVER BROOKLYN

     On Sunday, February 1, 1998, at 4:20 p.m., Alex
Cavallari, New York state director of Skywatch
International, was at his home in the Sheepshead Bay
section of Brooklyn, N.Y. when he spied a luminous
red-orange sphere in the sky.
     "It was a nice day, and I had to go outside on the
roof of my house to adjust my radio antenna because
some high winds had shifted its position," reported
Cavallari, who is a ham radio enthusiast with the
call letters KB2NYV.
     Cavallari saw "a small orange/red colored light dot
in the eastern sky" near Nostrand Avenue.  Thinking
it was a smudge on his glasses, he immediately
cleaned the lenses and looked again.  "I scanned the
sky for a couple of seconds and, all of a sudden, the
UFO appeared.  It just appeared from nowhere."
     "This time it was much bigger and clearer," he added.
"But the size or diameter of a cigarette (1/4 inch)
(0.5 centimeters--J.T.) at arm's length.  I went inside and
got my camera," a Minolta 35mm with 12X maximum
zoom.
     Returning outside, he looked for the UFO again and
"it just appeared and swooped down in front of me and
then it stopped for about three seconds and then it
disappeared."
     At its point of closest approach, the UFO "was
bigger than the moon."  Setting the camera on
maximum zoom, he scanned the sky through the
viewfinder, hoping for another glimpse of the UFO.
     Six minutes later, turning to the north, he spied
"a small colored dot" over Avenue X.  "I aimed the
camera, and it turned to the left, west, and it is right
in front of me.  I take one picture.  The UFO started
to move forward and down towards me and then
stopped.  It was the size of a basketball when viewed
at arm's length--a bright red, orange, yellow and white
orb.  It appeared to be a solid mass of light."
     Keeping the camera on it, Cavallari shot two more
photos.  "Then it flew for the right, north, stopped for
about a second, and was no longer visible."
     At 4:20 p.m., Cavallari was in the house washing
up "when I heard the sound of a helicopter over the
house.  I went and got the camera and walked out
onto the back porch.  There was what looked like a
black helicopter hovering directly over my house at
about 1,500 to 2,000 feet."
     Aiming the camera, Cavallari shot one photo of
the black helicopter before running out of film.
     "The helicopter did not appear to have any numbers
or identification on it," he reported.  "It did make a
'typical' sound a helicopter makes.  It hovered for about
two minutes.  During that time, it appeared as if it was
spraying" some sort of mist "from the bottom of the
helicopter onto the ground and houses below."
     While watching the helicopter, Cavallari's glasses
became covered with some of the mist.  Carefully he
wiped them off and retrieved a sample of the mist.
     Then "the helicopter turned and dipped its front
end as if it was looking at me.  It hovered in this
position for about thirty seconds and then turned as
it hovered and headed towards the (same) direction as
the UFO sphere/orb.  It headed for the southwest,"
towards Neptune Avenue and Brighton Beach.
     Copies of the UFO and black helicopter photos
are available in digital form.  Readers can send a
request to XELAUFO@aol.com.  (Many thanks to
Alex Cavallari for letting UFO ROUNDUP quote from
his report.)
(Editor's Comment: The helicopter in the photo
appears to be a 1997 Bell 407 Long Ranger.  Note
the odd-looking sprayer under the aircraft's "chin.")

STRANGE TUBE-SHAPED UFO
APPEARS IN LEANDER, TEXAS

     On Saturday, January 24, 1998, at 3:20 p.m.,
D.B. Michael was at his home in Leander, Texas
(population 3,398) when he received a phone call
from his brother, Dave, asking him to hurry outside,
"You've got to see this!"
     Leander is on Highway 183 about 23 miles
north of Austin, the state capital.
     "He and (D.B.'s son) Daniel were in their
backyard, which joins mine."  Hurrying outside,
D.B. "observed the object moving in a northerly
direction," describing the UFO as "a cylinder object
that was positioned upright, not oblong."
     The men shot several photos of the UFO with
their two 35mm cameras while "the object stayed
vertical without any rotation."
     "We followed it on U.S. Highway 183 heading
off at (county highway) 2243 East.  We then travelled
on 2243 East and pulled off the road.  It passed over
us...We then commenced east again intending to go
to Interstate (Highway) 35 and intercept it again."
     Just then, "a dark helicopter was observed flying
for the south at an altitude of about 500 feet," he
added, "Reaching I-35, we looked about but found
nothing.  We traveled west on Highway 29.  We
observed three jet aircraft that appeared to be in
V formation...in a flight that that would have
intercepted the object if it had continued in the
direction of travel last seen by us."  (Many thanks
to Steve Wilson Sr. for this report.)

MYSTERIOUS LIGHTS SEEN
IN SAN BERNARDINO

     On Saturday, January 24, 1998, at 9:30 p.m.,
Doris W. was at home in San Bernardino,
California (population 164,164), a large city
on Interstate Highway 10 approximately
63 miles (101 kilometers) east of Los Angeles,
when she got a real surprise.
     When her son came home from work, Doris
reported, "I opened the door and behind him were
three large lights like the colors of the sky when
seen first thing in the morning."
     Doris noticed "that the three lights were side
by side in a straight longitudinal position."
     "I asked my son what they were.  He turned
around to look and immediately got his camera."
     Meanwhile, Doris went across the street and
alerted her neighbors.  Soon there were six people
on the sidewalk, looking up at the lights.  "One of
the lights moved eastward and vanished.  The other
two were in the southern part of the sky.  When a
jet approached us, they disappeared without a
trace."  (Many thanks to Tim Hagemeister of
NACOMM for this report.)

THREE-DAY UFO FLAP HITS
PENSACOLA, FLORIDA

     Skywatchers just south of Pensacola, Florida
(population 58,615) had their patience rewarded
when a red spherical UFO appeared for three
nights straight over the Gulf of Mexico.
     Pensacola is 195 miles (312 kilometers) west
of Tallahassee, the state capital.
     On Thursday, January 29, 1998, Roy and Elsie
Pollock of Florida MUFON spied a UFO over the
city at 6:22 p.m.
     "It was a typical red light 'Bubba,'" he reported,
like those seen on many occasions in nearby
Gulf Breeze, Florida.  "It appeared approximately
halfway between the horizon" and the zenith, and
"gradually moved north and rising until it was the
same elevation in the sky as the moon.  It moved
perhaps 15 to 20 degrees to the west and then
changed direction to an east/southeast movement."
     "The object was a mostly brilliant at times red
red light--it pulsated from very bright to mediumly
bright and occasionally will disappear completely.
Pulse rate is about 7.5 times per second...It
hovered rotating and silently over the Shoreline
Park area."
     The following night, Friday, January 30, 1998,
Anne Morrison and her fellow skywatchers set up
camp in Pensacola Beach (population 4,000)
on Highway 399 just south of the city.
     "We were at Pensacola Beach, at water's edge,
at the Dunes Hotel at 6:07 p.m.," she reported.
"Looking to the northwest at approximately 30 to
40 degrees elevation.  As we watched...it very slowly
moved higher in the sky, pulsing randomly.  It was
slowly coming towards" the beach "and took eight to
ten minutes to come directly over our heads.  Then
it moved to the east of us...then disappeared."
     The 12 skywatchers then saw "another steady
red object in the east, but only five to seven degrees
above the horizon and over the Gulf (of Mexico).  It
remained in this position for about three minutes,
then disappeared.  There were 12 witnesses, eight
of whom have a great deal of experience seeing the
Gulf Breeze red object."
     The next night, Saturday, January 31, 1998,
at 6:27 p.m., the skywatchers went to the last public
parking lot on Fort Pickens Road in Pensacola Beach.
     "We had barely arrived when we saw a steady
red light to the north/northwest at about seven degrees
above the horizon.  The red light made a long arc above
us and was not as bright as the night before."  The UFO
"remained in view for 22 minutes.  It moved very slowly,
appearing higher in the sky and going more east."
(See Filer's Files #5 for 1998.  Many thanks to George
A. Filer, Ray Pollock and Anne Morrison of MUFON
for these reports.)

UK MEN SPOT A UFO OVER
GREAT BENTLY, ESSEX

     On December 3, 1997, at 8 p.m., two men,
one 18, the other 34, were walking in Great Bently,
Essex, about 55 miles (88 kilometers) northeast
of London when they spied a strange light in the sky.
     "To start with, it was very small," the younger
witness reported, "Only about the size of a normal
aeroplane light.  But as it got closer to us, it got
bigger and at one point it was much bigger than
a coin held at arm's length."
     "We saw it up close for thirty seconds, but it
was in view for at least a few minutes.  It passed
directly overhead at one point.  The colour was white.
The object seemed to be giving out light all over its
surface."
     "It came from the northeast and departed towards
the southwest.  It wasn't very high up.  It was much
lower than a normal plane, probably only about 100
feet (30 meters).  It traveled much faster at first, but
seemed to slow down when it passed over me."
(Email Interview)

ITALIAN COUPLE VIDEOTAPES
A UFO OVER CASSINO

     On Tuesday, January 20, 1998, at 7:20 a.m., an
Italian husband and wife spied a UFO over the small
city of Cassino, 160 kilometers (100 miles) south
of Rome.
     The UFO was also seen in Cervara.
     When they first saw the UFO, "it moved slowly
from near the ascendant (zenith)" and flew in a
horizontal trajectory.
     Five minutes later, the silvery object returned,
and "when the phenomenon repeated itself, the
spouses got a camera and filmed it for seven
minutes on videotape."
     The case is being investigated by Giovanni
Ascione, Antonio Cecere, Mario de Luca and
Enzo Paliotti of Centro Italiano di Studi Ufologici.
(Grazie a Edoardo Russo di CISU per questo
rapporto.)

TWO TRIANGULAR UFOs FLY
OVER NORTHERN TASMANIA

     On Monday, February 2, 1998, at 11:55 p.m.,
witnesses in Devonport, on Australia's Bass Strait
on the north shore of Tasmania "spotted two bright
light triangular objects ripping through the night sky."
     "The first object sped past at an incredible speed,
at a low altitude on a westerly heading.  A few seconds
later, another white triangular object flew past on the
same course and bearing.  However, this object
appeared to have a green light or glow following it.
The objects appeared to be identical in shape and
colour.  There was no sound.  The objects were
definitely a right-angle triangle shape, that appeared
to be like the broad swept-back wing of a Stealth
or delta-winged American" aircraft.  (Many thanks to
Ross Dowe of Australia-New Zealand National UFO
Hotline for this report.)

CASHMAN SOLVES MYSTERY
OF THE CHESHIRE LIGHTS

     A recent UFO has now been identified, thanks to
the investigative work of Mark Cashman, assistant
director of Connecticut MUFON.
     On Friday, January 16, 1998, motorists spotted
mysterious bluish-white flashes near Cheshire,
Connecticut, about 25 miles (32 kilometers) south
of Hartford.  Mark Cashman subsequently talked
with two of the eyewitnesses.
     The incident took place between 10:45 and
11 p.m., Cashman said.  "The other witness indicated
that the cars were driving west on (Highway) 691,
heading for (Interstate Highway) I-84, and the flashes
were about 15 degrees behind the car, which would
mean that the (initial) Sleeping Giant (state park)
location just wasn't possible."
     "I plotted the sight lines on a map based on
information taken from the witnesses," he added,
"and the sight lines converge at the densest part
of Meriden, Connecticut."
     Cashman then contacted the power company
in Meriden and learned that "86,000 customers in
that area were without power and transformer
problems" as a result of the ice storm "could have
caused the flashes."
     "An arcing power line and certain kinds of
transformer problems can cause extremely bright
blue-white flashes of the kind reported."  Based
on this information, the recent Connecticut UFO
should be classified as "identified."  (Email
Interview)

BLACK HELICOPTER FLYBY
IN LEBANON, INDIANA

     On December 28, 1997, a farm family living near
Lebanon, Indiana (population 12,059), located on
Interstate Highway I-65 approximately 27 miles
(43 kilometers) northwest of Indianapolis, reported
a black helicopter flying very low and very fast
over their property.
     According to Lawrence R., the "helicopter passed
directly over our place.  It stirred up a pack of coyotes--
they started yapping and howling in the field beyond
our barnyard."  (See Farm and Ranch Living for
February/March 1998, page 47)

L.A.'S BRENTWOOD SECTION
HAS A MYSTERIOUS PAST

     What do Monica Lewinsky, O.J. Simpson and
Cindy Crawford have in common?
     They all live in Brentwood, an upscale neighborhood
in the west end of Los Angeles.
     Monica Lewinsky, key figure in the current White
House scandal, arrived at the home of her father,
Dr. Bernard Lewinsky, at 12224 Darlington Avenue
on Tuesday, February 3, 1998.
     "And when the upscale Brentwood district was
recovering from the notoriety and gawkers brought
by the O.J. Simpson case, the juggernaut of news
coverage descended for a second time upon
Bundy Drive, Gretna Green Way and other streets
familiar to trial watchers."  (See USA Today for
February 5, 1998, page 3-A.)
    "'It's a little deja vu,' said Elaine Katz, 40, strolling
past the scene with her leashed saluki-shepherd
mix, Shayne."
     "Retired schoolteacher Joan Taylor, 75, struggled
in vain to pull her family's Scotch terrier past the
staked-out journalists.  'He wants to see what's going
on,' Taylor said, 'I can hardly drag him home.'"
(USA Today, February 5, 1998, ibid.)
     "Lewinsky's father, Bernard, lives just a few
blocks from the condo where Nicole Brown Simpson
and Ronald Goldman were knifed to death in 1994."
Nicole's condo is at 875 South Bundy Drive.
     "The oncologist's home is also not far from
O.J.'s old estate" at 360 North Rockingham Avenue
"where the media camped out for months before
and after his sensational murder trial."
     "Los Angeles Police Department Sgt. Terri
Brinkmeyer said cops expected 'a media circus'
in Brentwood.  'But we're used to that, especially
in this area.'" (See the New York Post for
February 4, 1998, "Circus Is Back in Brentwood,"
page 3)
     Probably neither the Lewinskys nor O.J. nor
supermodel Cindy Crawford, who owns "a 4,000-
square-foot, four-bedroom, Spanish-hacienda-style
home in Brentwood" (See the Globe for February 10,
1998) are aware of the strange events that occurred
in the district back in January 1934, which resulted
in some wild claims and a mysterious disappearance.
     In 1933, self-styled inventor and mining engineer
G. Warren Shufelt came to Los Angeles, hoping to
interest backers in his "radio X-ray" device, a kind of
early-day subterranean sonar.
     Visiting Brentwood, then a new post-World War
One subdivision, Shufelt tested his invention and
discovered underground tunnels running south to
Santa Monica and the ocean.  He also discovered
tunnels deep beneath Dodger Stadium, the Central
Library and Fort Moore Hill, now site of the Los
Angeles Unified School Distrct headquarters.
     "To understand his find, Shufelt said he took his
secret to Arizona, to a famous Hopi Indian leader
known as Chief Greenleaf."
     "The Hopi tale the chief told him begins about
3,000 B.C. with a highly advanced race known as
the Lizard People.  According to legend, after a
fire or meteor nearly destroyed their culture, the
mysterious race built three underground cities
along the Pacific coast."
     "The capital of this underground world was said
to be beneath downtown Los Angeles. (Another
city was under Mount Shasta and nobody knows
where the third city was.)  Caverns and tunnels
housing a thousand families supposedly were
created with an unknown chemical solution that
melted bedrock.  Tunnels and rooms were said
to be filled with gold--then a symbol of long life
rather than wealth--and lined with a cement
superior to any known to modern man."
     "The legendary lost city of tunnels was built
in the shape of a lizard, also a Hopi symbol for
longevity."  (See the Los Angeles Times for
July 22, 1996, "L.A. Scene--The City Then and Now"
by Cecilia Rasmussen.)
     The Brentwood tunnel supposedly runs parallel
to Sunset Boulevard, turning south beyond Bundy
Drive, crossing San Vicente Boulevard and passing
under the Brentwood Country Club before heading
for Santa Monica.
     Shufelt announced his plans to excavate the
reputed "temple room" under Fort Moore Hill.
(See the Los Angeles Times for January 29, 1934.)
     "The city gave Shufelt permission to drill down
to 1,000 feet, but after only reaching 350 feet,
drilling stopped for fear of a cave-in.  Breathless
newspaper accounts were never followed up,
and Shufelt disappeared."  (Los Angeles Times,
July 22, 1996)
     A local psychic of the 1930s, Edith Elden
Robinson of Paco Rivera said she had a vision of
"a vast city...in mammoth tunnels extending to
the seashore," with a few running under Brentwood.
(Editor's Comment: Prehistoric tunnels have also
been found under Rome, Italy, apparently predating
the Etruscan period, 1300 to 300 B.C.  The
Etruscans, a.k.a. the Rasenna, founded "Roma"
on the site of an earlier city--Saturnia.)

from the UFO Files...

1967: UFO CHASES AIRLINER
          OVER PERU

     On February 2, 1967, a Douglas DC-4 airliner
owned by Faucett Airlines took off from Piura in
northern Peru.  The four-engine propellor airliner
was headed south to Lima, the national capital.
     Flying the DC-4 was Captain Osvaldo Sanvitti
and a crew of six.  There were 52 passengers
on board, including Colonel Alberto Rosell of
the Peruvian Army.
     As the DC-4 flew over Chiclayo, Capt. Sanvitti
reported, "We were at an altitude of 7,000 feet
when I suddenly noticed a luminous object to the
right of the plane.  It was beginning to get dark
(about 7 p.m.  February is summer in Peru--J.T.)
and the object, which emitted a very strong light,
was shaped like a reversed cone.  It was more or
less at eight miles (12 kilometers) from the plane,
flying at the same speed, same altitude and
keeping the same direction.  In other words, it
was flying in line with our plane as if it wanted
to observe us closely."
     "As I was observing it myself," he reported,
"I saw it making a number of movements, all of
which were done at a fantastic speed.  It darted
vertically in the air several times and then returned
to its original place.  I alerted my crew and then
I told the passengers to watch the UFO.  I told
them that, in my opinion, it was observing us."
     "The object followed us for a while to our right,
making ascending and descending maneuvers from
time to time, but always following our plane in a
parallel route.  Then, suddenly, it flew towards us
like an arrow, passing above the plane.  While
doing this, it emitted flashes of vivid colors."
     "When it approached the plane, it had a bluish
light on its upper part and a red light below.  But
when it passed above us, I saw that its lower
section was shaped like a funnel.  I estimated
that the upper section, which was the largest, had
a diameter of about 230 feet.  After passing above
us, the UFO took a position to our left, at a distance
of two miles from the plane."
     Picking up his microphone, Capt. Sanvitti tried
to contact the tower at Aeropuerto Jorge Chavez
in Lima.  He wanted to report the sighting, but all he
got on the radio was static.
     Meanwhile, in Lima, airport manager Edwin
Boris "was very worried by the fact that Capt.
Sanvitti was not in touch with us.  I was unable to
make any communication either with him or his
plane."
     Back on the DC-4, things were getting pretty
scary.
     The radio was still out.  Even worse, the
cabin and cockpit lights began to flicker and grow
dimmer.
     "The crew and passengers of the DC-4 suddenly
noticed a second UFO flying next to the first one.
'The two objects were flying over our plane,' continued
Sanvitti's testimony  'They both had the same size
and shape.  I was beginning to tell the control tower
that there were two UFOs around us when suddenly
both left at a fantastic speed in one blow and
disappeared.  It was our last sighting of them."
     Immediately the DC-4's power was restored.
At Chavez airport, Boris "could hear his (Sanvitti's)
voice explaining what had happened.  He was
saying, 'A UFO has flown around us, observing us.
The passengers are frightened.'"
     Amazingly, this was Capt. Sanvitti's second
UFO encounter.  In 1953, while piloting a small
plane over Barcelona in Venezuela he spotted
"a silvery saucer-shaped object."  (Many thanks
to Antonio J. Huneeus for letting UFO ROUNDUP
quote from his article, "Peru's Most Incredible
Close Encounters," Unsolved UFO Sightings,
Winter 1998 issue, pages 64 and 65.  Copyright
1998 by Antonio J. Huneeus, all rights reserved.)

FUN UFO WEBSITES:
     For more information on underground bases
around the world, check out this site.  It's at
http://www.budget.net/~harbob/undbases.htm
     Definitely not to be missed is our parent
site, UFO INFO, which is chock-full of photos,
features and news.  Browse at leisure at
http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
     Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be
downloaded at our webpage.  Read about
hundreds of UFO sightings during 1996 and 1997
at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/

     To our readers in Norway, I hope you're
enjoying today's Sun Pageant in Narvik.  The festival
celebrates the "return" of the sun to the city.
The sun has been below the horizon, and Narvik
has been cloaked in Arctic night, since the end
of November.

     Join us next week for more saucer news from
"the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP."
See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites
or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
the item first appeared.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 8

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:49:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:23:17 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:44:15 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Alex,

>Don't even waste your time responding to people who aren't taking
>you seriously and trying to make you look like a hoaxer. How many
>times do you have to tell them that you saw it with your eyes? If
>people can help you great, but if all they want to do is question
>your intelligence then you have to ask yourself, why?

>Even if the 'object' was a lens flare, (and I doubt that it was
>since you said you saw it with your eyes first) that doesn't
>answer Jennifer's question regarding the success of
>telepathically communicating with such objects.

>Let me try to get an answer for you. This is for anybody on this
>List who can help Jennifer out. If I see a big grey, silvery disc
>shaped object hovering over my house, and 20 people in attendance
>all see it too, how could we try to communicate with it? Has
>anybody had luck in trying to communicate with similar unknown
>objects? Please address your experiences to Jennifer or Alex.

>Thanks!

>Joe Murgia


Joe,

You misinterpret me.  I have not said, and will not say, that
Alex didn't see anything.  He very well may have.

I think he is mistaken in thinking he captured it on film.

That's a very different thing.

I've seen many things that I was unable to capture on film, and
I am a professional photographer.

I need to hear from Alex what camera he used.  This will make
it possible to prove that I am wrong and it is not lens flare.

That would also make it possible to estimate the size of the
object (very roughly) based on lens focal length.

Bob










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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 12:00:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:21:06 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >From: werd@interlog.com
> >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:57:24 -0500 (EST)
> >X-Sender: werd@mail.interlog.com
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >Alex,

> >Why did you not center the "sphere" in your frame area instead of having it
> >off to the other side of the frame from the sun? (Exactly where one would
> >expect a lens flare).

> >As a professional photographer I would like to state categorically that
> >this is a lens flare. Sorry I can only speak to what I see, not any other
> >references to what you saw before or after taking the picture.

> >Drew Williamson

> HI DREW,

> The image has the orb in that location because as it was moving ,
> while it was doing its "thing" I  was trying to capture it on
> film , I took many pics during this event and never saw any lens
> flare through my camera . It is not like the orb posed or stood
> still for me to film it, as soon as I saw it in the camera I took
> pics, Where it ended up it ended up. I already said that I agree
> it looks like lens flare but I know it was not. There is probably
> no way I could prove this even if I had 100 other witnesses , it
> appears that as long as the so called "experts" voice there
> opinions that is the final word, well I think the "experts"
> should start to understand that it is possible for them to make
> an incorrect assesment of something. If I saw any lens flare
> through the camera during this I would say so, I do not want
> false or misleading info to be presented to the ufo community.
> The orb was very much the color in the pic and I guess it is
> possible for lens flare and the orb to be close in colors.

> I am not new to the ufo field and have many years of experience
> and I do not put out what I believe are false reports or
> pictures.

> Is it possible for any of the film "experts" to plot the lens in
> the camera to know if the camera is capable of producing lens
> flare at that part of the lens? Is it impossible to get lens
> flare in the middle / center of a image? I do have other pics of
> this ORB and I might consider releasing them if I can be
> convinced that this is lens flare but so far no one in my opinion
> has done that.

> I have seen many orb pics, some were of orbs of different colors
> some white and most if not all were called lens flare by the
> "experts" at some point in time. So I guess as long as a orb is
> the color and in a possible posiotin to be considered lens flare,
> thats what the "experts" will call it, even if that is
> incorrect.

> I thank all the people who have emailed with there opinions and
> am not in the least bit bothered by the negative ones, I think
> this is what should be.

> So, I do no know what else I can say about the event except I
> would be glad to take a lie detector test / voice stress analysis
> etc to help support what I claimed happened.

> thanks,
> ALEX CAVALLARI


Alex,

First...you're original question regarding "communication" with
orbs or discs is a very real, and needed inquiry to this list,
and I hope others can expand on any communication, telepathy or
other, with entities from unknown sources.

I have not had one of these encounters, but I do have experience
with photo analysis.  I am not prepared to state the photo
presented on this list of the "orb" is a lens flare, but I do
agree with Bruce Maccabee, preliminary analysis does include this
as a possibilty.

You stated there are more pictures of the orb.  Comparative
analysis is one of the greatest assets to investigating unknowns,
that's why videos are so fascinating to work with...one can look
at several images of the same object. If you have more than one
photo of this orb, please post them...for the benefit of all.

There is room for the skeptical, just as there is room for the
intuitive believers.... it's all a matter of working together for
a common truth.

cheers,
Bryan Butcher
_________________
- - - -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dreamsenses: The Home of Being! - http://www.raccoon.com/~bryan
The Des Moines Astronomical Society - http://www.sciowa.org/~dmas
The Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group - http://www.mufor.org/ares
_________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^








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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:34:01 +1030
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:45:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?


> From: "bruce white" <b.white@michianatoday.com>
> To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Communication
> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:54:26 -0800

> JJ,

> Your interest in communication prompts me to post this to you.

> In the summer of 1974 while looking at the night sky, and using a
> small telescope. My son and I were attracted to a yellow cast
> light low on the horizon.

Hi there Bruce!

You mention "yellow" here.   The night time events that I have
witnessed have pretty well always been in the yellow/orange/amber
range, and nearly always between horizon and an angle of about 10
degrees maximum.

> We tried to focus on it but could not
> and soon found that it seemed to be moving toward us. Almost as
> though we attracted it? It moved closer and we moved out of the
> shadows into a clear field next to our house. The light stopped
> moving toward us and now started to move north passing in front
> of us.

I experienced the same thing.  My group of observers was standing
at water level and the light source appeared to be moving closer.

I remember, quite clearly, feeling as if this was a police launch
coming towards us.

> It moved too slowly to be an airplane. It made no sound and could
> not have been a balloon. Suddenly the light went out. I made
> mental note of where it went out. It was almost under a big star.
> As we stood there looking and wondering the light came back on.
> It had passed under the star and continued on. It never changed
> it's slow speed but the light did go off again several times.

This is characteristic of the "events" that I have seen.
Sometimes, the light source will brighten and then diminish.
"Pulsation" is a word that I frequently use in connection with
these events.

> Finally leaving our field of view we went to bed. The next day I
> awoke with a compulsion.

"COMPULSION"........AHA!!!!  understatement!!!!!

> Over and over I relived the event. I
> have never had an experience effect me like that. I worked the
> afternoon shift at the time so I didn't return home until after
> midnight. I was compelled to go to the field to visualize again
> the events of the night before. As I imagined the place in the
> sky where the light went out I saw that the big bright star was
> gone. As soon as I became aware that the big bright star was no
> star, my compulsion was gone.

I notice that on certain days I am literally "driven" to go and
observe.   On other days, no feeling at all.

> I have often wondered how the
> compulsion was turned on and off, and if that experience was
> designed to convince me that there are more living here than just
> mankind. If so it worked. Strange as it may seem a friend that I
> worked with also had a similar experience.

Yes, I feel that that is possible.   We DO, as humans, seem to
need a "nudge" every now and then, to remind us that MAYBE we are
NOT alone here.

> This may not be communication as you would expect, but I felt
> moved to share it with you.

Your account is very similar to what I have experienced.   Also,
I DO think that there was some form of communication.

> Bruce

Best wishes.

JJ








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   Feb > Feb 8

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:52:19 -1000
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:54:44 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

----------
> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> Date: Sunday, February 8, 1998 4:20 AM

> From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
> >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:57:24 -0500 (EST)
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> So, I do no know what else I can say about the event except I
> would be glad to take a lie detector test / voice stress analysis
> etc to help support what I claimed happened.

Aloha Alex....

I'm not sure of the significance of this thread.  If you say you
saw an anomaly and photographed it, then you did as far as I am
concerned. I think you can be taken at your word. Even so, if it
is not lens flare, it is not identifiable as anything either
terrestrial or extraterrestrial so what is the point? Everyone
agrees that there are unidentifiable lights in the sky, and the
fact that you and millions of other people have seen and
photographed them is interesting.

But the discussion has digressed to the point where people are
suggesting that UFOs intentionally spoof camera optics to mimic a
natural camera phenomenon while appearing as something else to a
live observer. Is it that two sets of photons are on the same
path but one set enters only the camera and one set enters only
the observer's eye?  As my english professor used to state so
eloquently:  "How do it know?"

Has it come to the point when everything anyone sees is an ET
craft?  And if it happens to look exactly like an airplane or a
falling star, or a black helicopter or a lens flare, does that
merely mean that the ETs have nothing better to do than defy the
known laws of physics for the purpose of creating optical
illusions on the off-chance that a UFO investigator with a camera
might be looking up?????

Apparently so. I wasn't a skeptic when I joined the list. I
wanted to learn things I don't know, of which there are a LOT.
But I am starting to become convinced that no one knows much of
anything and either make up explanations for everything they
don't understand, or claim that they HAD all the evidence but the
MIBs stole it in the middle of the night.  It's B.S.!

It IS a lens flare....IT'S NOT a lens flare... IS...... NOT....
IS...... NOT....... What difference does it make? What is proven
one way or the other?  Nothing!  It is not evidence of ANYTHING!

Tom Burnett



     Search for other documents from or mentioning: burnettc | xelaufo |





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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:01:08 +1030
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:29:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?

Dear Updates.

In  my earlier post which included a gif. file of an "event" that
I documented last May, I neglected to include details of the
camera that was used.

For your information:

PANASONIC "OmniMovie" VHS format.
PV-610-K
8:1 Power Zoom

At the time of this "event" I was also using a X 5.5 Tokina
converter

I then had "stills" taken off the VHS tape..

Sorry about the oversight.

Best wishes,

JJ

--
Ev'ry breath you take,
Ev'ry move you make,
Ev'ry bond you break
Ev'ry step you take,
I'LL BE WATCHING YOU!!!!

(STING 1983)










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                  {88} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:39:05 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:06:27 -0500
Subject: {88} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        ______ _______ ____
------ /  /  //  ____//    |----------------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  '                                 Feb 8th, 1998
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K                 part 1 Issue 88
--- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 40 countries.

This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be
reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g.  Repost {88} part 1, part 2 or part 3.

In this issue:

Editorial
---------

Dan Sherman visited us on the uk.ufo.nw dedicated irc channel,
Saturday 31st January 1998. Here is the very interesting log of that
meeting.


United Kingdom News
-------------------

[UK 1] Sighting in Wolverhampton
[UK 2] UFOs or Fakes? You decide
[UK 3] Cornwall prepares for a total eclipse
[UK 4] Strange case of the A46 UFO remains a mystery
[UK 5] Scientists listen intently for ET


World News
----------

[W 1] Are aliens being cut off by gas in the galaxy?
[W 2] Philip Corso & the alien autopsy
[W 3] Sleep Paralysis - Frequently asked questions
[W 4] Toxic data at Area 51 ruled confidential
[W 5] Email ET only at the Alien Contact Network
[W 6] Mexico City video will air in March
[W 7] Mir Cosmonauts to appear live on QVC


Letters
-------

Roman Catholic Priest
Any East Anglia UFO groups


This time last year
-------------------

A small edited collection of reports and news feature's from January
1997.


Book serialisation
------------------

A FEARFUL SYMMETRY

A TRUE STORY OF ALIEN INTRUSION INTO HUMAN LIVES

By D. Lynne Bishop


Editorial
=========

Dan Sherman went into the United States Air Force like most other
Americans, extremely proud to serve his country and it's well
trained military. During his twelve years in service he was
recognised for heroism and has been decorated with the AF
Commendation Medal, as well as the AF Achievement Medal with two
oakleaf clusters and was honoured for service in the Persion Gulf
War.

Everything appeared to be going well for Sergeant Sherman until he
was recruited into a special programme called 'Project Preserve
Destiny' (PPD), an ABOVE BLACK project which would eventually change
his life and result in him leaving the USAF.

http://www.aboveblack.com/

An account of Dan's story has just appeared in the latest issue of
Sightings (UK) - January 98 - Vol 2 - Issue 8 & From Beyond (USA) -
January 98

>From Dan's home page:

About the Author

Dan Sherman spent almost three years as an intuitive communicator
while serving in the USAF. In ABOVE BLACK he tells of his training,
things he learned from his alien contacts and the events that lead
him to seek a discharge from the United States Air Force, at all
costs.

By coming forward, he hopes his story will encourage other insiders
to do likewise. Sherman says, "The information I have come forward
with is important in the sense that someone has to start talking...
someone from the inside. Preserve Destiny is only one of many alien
projects that I suspect the US government, as well as other
governments, are heavily involved with. In releasing to the public
what I know, I have tried to take a stand against the keepers of the
grey flame within the sacred halls of the NSA, CIA, USAF, NRO and
other agencies. Hopefully this will open the door for other insiders
to peer through and feel more comfortable stepping out into the light
of day. If not, 'they' will continue to suppress the most fascinating
aspects of our own existence... that others exist!" =A0=A0=A0

Serving over 12 years in the United States Air Force, Dan Sherman
has been recognized for heroism and has been decorated with the AF
Commendation Medal and the AF Achievment Medal with two oakleaf
clusters. He has also received the AF Outstanding Unit Award with
three oakleaf clusters as well as being honored for service in the
Persian Gulf war. He is married with no children.

---

The Real Audio sound track of Dan's interview on 'Sightings On The
Radio' can be downloaded for offline listening from the  following
addresses:

Sightings On The Radio - August 6th 1997

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt1.ra
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt2.ra
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt3.ra
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan_pt4.ra

dan_pt1.ra - 2.155kb
dan_pt2.ra - 1.948kb
dan_pt3.ra - 1.856kb
dan_pt4.ra - 1.165kb

Dans second interview on 'Sightings On The Radio'

Sightings On The Radio - October 29th 1997

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan2-pt1.ra
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/colin.light/uk-ufo-nw/sounds/dan2-pt2.ra

dan2-pt1.ra - 1.899kb
dan2-pt2.ra - 1.792kb

Dans interviews can be heard in streaming (online) Real Audio at the
following addresses:

Sightings On The Radio - August 6th 1997

http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/9708/end0806.ram

Sightings On The Radio - October 29th 1997

http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/9710/end1029.ram

Art Bell Show - November 10th 1997

http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/abell/9711/ab1110.ram

---

Thanks to Dan Sherman for taking the time to be our special guest.
Thanks to all the visitors who joined the channel. Thanks to Crow
and Raine for moderating the meeting. Thanks to Dave_UFO for
arranging Dan's visit.

Session Start: Sat Jan 31 22:58:50 1998

<Raine> <color> Welcome Mr.Sherman can you tell us about the type of
genetic alterations the aliens did to you to create the type of
conduit you became for the NSA? And if there are others in the
public sector being biologically manipulated by them for those
purposes and others?

<Dan> I don't know exactly what procedure was performed.. all I was
told was that I was a part of a genetic manipulation

<Dan> program designed to give humans the ability to communicate for
a specific reason with this alien race....

<Dan> There are others that have the same ability.  DS

<Raine> <Tinman-BF> Question: When you meet your first alien
contacts, How did you feel and was it expected ?

<Dan> I have never "met" personally any alien.  (Sounds funny even
typing it!)  I "intuitively communicated" with two separate aliens.
DS

<Raine> <mulder> do you know of cia involvement with ymca, using
selected targets as manchurian candidates to carry out covert ops
for cia/nsa?

<Dan> I'm unaware of any CIA involvement with what you speak of.
Sorry. DS

<Raine> <color> question: Do I recall that you mentioned a location
in the Great Lakes area that was part of the information you recieved
from the aliens? If so, can you tell me more about the area
mentioned and the significance of that area? What is going on
there?<Dan> I had received abduction data towards the end of my stay
with the project. On three occasions I looked up the location of the
abductions

<Dan> of which I was receiving information about.  One of them was
in Wisconsin somewhere.  I didn't look at the specific area of
Wisconsin. DS

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> Since leaving the USAF and PPD project have you
met anyone else involved with the project?

<Dan> No... neither do I expect to.  Although, I guess it is possible
someday.  As people get out of the military under normal
circumstances

<Dan> I'm sure there will be other intuitive communicators who come
forward.  DS

<Raine> <Tinman-BF> Question: Do you, in you life time, think that
the government will come out in the open to public about the presence
of Aliens

<Dan> I believe they will never do so voluntarily.  But the more
people who come forward who have knowledge, the more they will be
forced out of the UFO closet.  DS

<Raine> <color> question: While meeting abductees, have you come
across meeting any that You had received information about them,
while working for the NSA? from the aliens

<Dan> I had never received personal data that would allow me to
connect a certain person to the data I received.  DS

<Raine> <Angela-> Mr Sherman does "k811" mean anything to you? If so
, what do you associate it with?

<Dan> If you replace the "8" with another symbol, yes.  DS

<Raine> <mush> Dan: have you new information about the company of
noise cancellation

<Dan> Interesting question.  A man named "Bob" that I have been
communicating with has done a lot of research about that company
since I released my book and has found out a

<Dan> lot of interesting information.  I may be getting this onto
the aboveblack.com website soon.  Interesting stuff, all the
correlations... DS

<Raine> <Gandalf1> dan: you said that you intiutivly communicated
with aliens... did you do this by "telapathic communication" if yes
isn't this quite impossible as you have to have a certain focus on
the person you are trying to communicate with?

<Dan> I am always careful to NOT call it telepathy mainly because
I'm not sure what telepathy specifically feels like. I "intuitively
communicated" and from what I

<Dan> have read about telepathy, this is a much more real and vivid
way of communicating.  This is explained in the book a bit more in
depth. DS

<Raine> <mulder> were u involved in project stargate,have u ever
dealt with sas or sis in uk?

<Dan> No I have never worked with these projects.  Very classified
projects are always extremely compartmented and the chances of
someone

<Dan> working on several different highly classified projects at once
is very unlikely.  DS

<Raine> <comet7> Dan, do you know what type of aliens these were and
where they were from?

<Dan> I'm unaware of the "type".  and I never really was able to find
out where they were from.  I do know they manipulated time in order
to travel.

<Dan> This would allow them to be from a great distance from earth.
DS

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> Did you ever feel that there was an ulterior
motive to your work in that you were perhaps being trained for
something more than what you had been told?

<Dan> Yes, most definitely .. especially towards the end.  The cover
story they told me about providing a means of worldwide
communication

<Dan> in the future because of an electromagnetic outage worldwide
was most likely true (perhaps) but there was certainly more to it
than that. DS

<Raine> <SickBoy> Hello Mr Sherman.  Why do you expect people to
believe your story?  You have offered no evidence at all to
substaniate your claims.  Except you tell us about genetic
alternations that modern medicine cannot do.  That you are
telepathic, but not with humans.  You can make anything seem
plausible to believers by introducing the alien factor.  What do you
feel is the most convincing thing about your story?

<Dan> My background in the military can be verified.  The bases I
have been stationed at are "known" for there "interesting" missions.
Other than that, it is based on faith.  Just because someone does
not have evidence

<Dan> of something does not automatically make it untrue.  DS

<Raine> <color> what types of information did you receive? And what
information did you receive regarding the abductions in Wisconsin?
Or elsewhere?

<Dan> I received "comms" for more than two years.  The types of
information varied throughout those years.  They started with strings
of

<Dan> numbers.  But slowly evolved to images and towards the end it
became what I readily identified as abduction data.  It was not a
great deal

<Dan> of data... things like time, date, lat/long (location)
potentiality for recall, residual pain levels...etc.  Nothing person
specific though.  DS

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> Dan I understand that your family may not know of
your involvement in Project Preseve Destiny (PPD). Is this still the
case? How do your friends & work colleague's react to you?

<Dan> Something as different as my experience will automatically make
people uncomfortable.  This has been the case with a part of my
family.

<Dan> There is a part of my family that does not know however because
I learned a lesson when revealing it to the other part of the family.
 If

<Dan> you want your relationships to be unfettered by mistrust, you
simply don't bring it up.  Coincidently, my firends are more readily
accepting of

<Dan> this.  My wife, however, has been rock soild throughout the
whole ordeal as she knows me better than anyone else, and knows I
wouldn't

<Dan> make this type of thing up.  DS

<Raine> <Crow> Dan I know that you said you were taken to your comms
room via a van with blacked out windows. Did you get taken directly
into an NSA building or did the van park outside and you had to
enter the building by walking

<Dan> I was taken there via a blacked out van and a van without
windows period.  I was taken into a garage like structure.  I never
saw the outside of this structure.  I went directly

<Dan> from the van to the door I entered to get to the elevator in
the garage.  DS

<Raine> <buck7> Dan, how can you be sure that you were not being
manipulated mentally by your NSA employers into thinking that you
were in contact with aliens? With all due respect.

<Dan> This is a popular question.  The short answer is, I can't be
sure.  But the nature of the communications would lead anyone to
believe that it

<Dan> was from extraterrestrial origin.  Humans have the mental
structure of communications compared to what I experienced.  It

<Dan> is very difficult to explain the difference.  DS

<Raine> <color> question for him: would you be able to locate the
region (north, south)in Wisconsin if you saw a map ?  What do you
think is happening there?

<Dan> Have a "certain" structure of communications compared to what
I experienced.  (Correction)

<Dan> I believe it was in the southern part of the state.  All I did
was look at the lat/long and notice it was in Wisconsin.  I didn't
look at the specific city.

<Dan> Sorry!  DS

<Raine> <Crow> Dan obviously you still have the ability to do these
comms now, have you contacted spock or bones since you left the
project

<Dan> No, I have had no comms since I was relieved of duty from the
program.  It was like I dropped off the face of the earth.  This was
obviously

<Dan> government controlled.  DS

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> How did you cope during the time you were involved
with PPD with not being able to tell anyone? It must have been most
stressful.

<Dan> In the beginning it was very difficult.  But, if you think
about it, at the time people were not as ready as they are today to
hear such an

<Dan> experience and believe it.  Even if I had told someone, I would
have been thought of as crazy.  (Still am today by many but it's not
quite as

<Dan> bad today)  Plus, I don't care anymore.  DS

<Raine> <color> question: How did the agency know to pick you to put
into that program? How did they find out your special genetical
development in order to select you from the ordinary group of
military person?

<Dan> This whole thing was co-orchestrated by the government and
them.  They have obviously kept good records.  DS

<Raine> <RavNmaD> Dan, due to the nature of your communications, how
were you able to discern between a true communication and what you
*wanted* to see or hear?

<Dan> This is a question that cannot be answered without experiencing
it for yourself.  The communication was not from the imagination part
of the brain.

<Dan> It happened very lucidly.  Very difficult to put into words.
DS

<Raine> <SickBoy> Can you tell us why you left the military?

<Dan> The abduction data really started to get to me mentally. There
were many things going on at the time and an event happened that kind
of

<Dan> broke the camel's back so-to-speak.  I requested a discharge
and my commander came back with a retort that basically said I was

<Dan> never getting out... even when my enlistment was up.  So I took
the only measure I knew at the time that would most definitely get me
out

<Dan> of the military.  For legal reason, I really can't go into
specifics.  DS

<Raine> <Angela-> You say you were 'geneticly' altered in the womb.
Were you ever abducted?  By the Govt/Military that you can recall?
Either as a child or an adult?  It would seem that 'someone' would
need to track your progress as you grew in efforts to monitor the
genetic changes.

<Dan> No.  I have no recollections of any post womb abductions. I
was told my ability didn't become fully developed until my mid 20's.
Evidently

<Dan> there was no need to "monitor" my growth.  DS

<Raine> <jarod> what if anything does he know about E2SCD

<Dan> Sorry, nothing.  DS

<Raine> <RavNmaD> Dan, what do you know about 'Fastlane'? is that
term familiar with you?

<Dan> I feel pretty dumb, should I know these terms?  No, sorry, not
that one either.  DS

<Raine> <color> question: Will you ever try to make a connection from
the information you received to the actual abduction that took place?
Creating a link between what you received as data to the actual
event? Proving the info.

<Dan> Unfortunately, at the time I received this data I had no idea
that I would be talking about this to anyone.  I never made any
notes or anything

<Dan> like that.  The only information that could be useful that I
received was locational data and date.  I'm not sure how this would
have been too

<Dan> helpful anyway. DS

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> I'm interested in knowing how people reacted to
you when you came clean. Your wife must be the closest person to you.
How did she react and how does she feel now?

<Dan> She's right here.  She says she was "amazed and intrigued, and
believed every word of it."  Also, that I am a wonderful person and
tall, dark

<Dan> and handsome.  :)  (Okay, those are my words.)

<Dan> Her family was not as accepting as we would have liked, but
tolerant.  DS

<Raine> <JeroenW> Dan, are you still in comm contact with
intelligence?

<Dan> What intelligence, Jeroen?

<Dan> Alien or military?  DS

<Dan> Either case it is "no". DS

<Raine> <UnixKid> Are you willing to take an independent polygraph
test?  As well as a mental health evaluation?

<Dan> I would be willing to take either as my experience is very much
reality and the truth.  I have a very firm grasp of reality.
Sometimes too firm

<Dan> according to my wife.  DS

<Raine> <RavNmaD> Dan, what was your MOS in the AF?

<Dan> Before it changed (BTW it's AFSC in the AF) it was 20570. They
changed in the 90's and it became 1N570  (I think...can't remember
exactly.) DS

<Raine> <JeroenW> The same agency who implanted EBE. I think it was
Psi.

<Dan> I'm in contact with no one in regards to my duties with the
AF. DS

<Raine> <minator> Did anyone ever try to prevent you from writing
your book or try to change the datails in it?

<Dan> No.  I wrote and released this book with very little fanfare.
I purposely published it myself so as to start out with people like
you who are the built

<Dan> in market and closer to the front lines of the alien worldwide
story.  Now that almost everyone in the "alien" community knows
about it, it's

<Dan> very unlikely that the government is going to do anything about
it since so many people "who care" and are monitoring, it would
automatically

<Dan> justify what I am saying if anything were done to me.  Now we
are taking it to the next level... worldwide exposure.  Stay tuned.
DS

<Raine> <mulder> ever dealt with mi7 agents over the project in
alaska? ever had involvement in chilean secret service?

<Dan> You have to remember I didn't have access to any program but
the one I worked on.  I know the Alaska project may have ties to what
I did, but

<Dan> I am unsure what they are specifically.  DS

<Raine> <buck7> Dan, Do you have any info on the extent of government
involvement in this affair? In other words, does the involvement
extend beyond the U.S. government,( ie Great Britain,Russia,etc.)?

<Dan> I firmly believe there are several governments involved in the
project.  This may have to do with the "worldwide" phenomanon that
is

<Dan> supposedly going to occur in the future.  Other government's
involvement was alluded to by Bones.. DS

<Raine> <comet7> Dan, do you think that you are now.. after leaving
the military, being highly monitored or watched because of what you
know?

<Dan> Probably right after the release of the book.  We had some mail
come to us opened. Perhaps still now.  I'm not concerned because I

<Dan> believe I haven't released any "black" information that would
cause them to have a reason.  DS

<Raine> <Rasputin> have you been tested by others with the same
ability? Birds of a feather and all that...

<Dan> The project was so compartmentailized that I never met (other
than at school and we couldn't talk to one another) anyone else with
the

<Dan> same abilities.  DS

<Raine> <tinbox> Dan, has the military exerted (or tried to exert)
any pressure on you regarding the content of your book?

<Dan> None.  DS

<Raine> <Crow> Dan I know you have mentioned a Captain and gave out
his name Captain Black did you get any repercussions from giving out
his name?

<Dan> No.  Actually, this name I gave out was not the Capt in
question but another Capt that I worked with that I was thinking of
at the time.  What a

<Dan> mess that was.  DS

<Raine> <UnixKid> Can you give us the name of the chief field officer
in new orleans?

<Dan> Unfortunately, I have no idea what you are referring to,
Unixkid.  Sorry.  DS

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> Now that you are no longer involved with Project
Preserve Destiny do you feel that should a time come when
communication systems fail, that you will be used as the project
intended?

<Dan> That's a good question.  I think it depends on how many they
have trained and how needed I would be.  My guess, probably not.  DS

<Raine> <color> Is it breaking security to reveal the operations of
the agencies you were involved in? Especially a project unofficailly
acknowledged as aliens/ufos are. Did you recieve the go ahead from
them to talk?

<Dan> In the book I explain the different levels of the classified
"onion".  There are many levels, the black one is the one that I
have to be careful about

<Dan> not revealing any info.  Unfortunately, they were almost all
involved with the black projects.  It makes it hard to talk about
agencies.  Raine, I must draw

<Dan> this to a close.  DS

-[continued in part 2]-








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 8

                  {88} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:39:05 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:19:19 -0500
Subject: {88} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        ______ _______ ____
------ /  /  //  ____//    |----------------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  '                                 Feb 8th, 1998
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K                 part 2 Issue 88
--- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 40 countries.

This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be
reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g.  Repost {88} part 1, part 2 or part 3.

<Raine> <Dave_UFO> Dan what of the future. You are working, there is
your book and you are doing the lecture circuits. What else does the
future hold for you?

<Raine> Ok Dan, could you answer this last question please?

<Dan> As everyone may know I have written a book about the
experience.

<Dan> More info about getting it can be seen at the website.  I will
be a featured speaker at

<Dan> the International UFO Congress Conference in Laughlin NV which
will be held starting tomorrow and going until the 7th of Feb.

<Raine> I would just like to thank Dan Sherman for coming here
tonight and sharing some of his valuable time with us and wish him
all the best for the future.

<Crow> Thanks for sharing your time with us all Dan.

<Dan> There will be many more things happening, including a movie
that may be produced.  Stay tuned.  DS

<Raine> Dan is there anything you would like to tell us before you
leave or are you going to wrap it up?

<Dan> Thanks for your time and everyone else.  I look forward to
hearing your comments about the book.  DS

<Dan> Just that I thank everyone for attending.  Don't automatically
dismiss unusual events ro experiences coming from ex-military
people.

<Crow> Don't forget all Dans website is www.aboveblack.com

<Dan> They may be the part of the big story that is missing.  Keep
your eyes and ears open.  DS

<Raine> Will do Dan, and thanks again :)

<Crow> we will remove the +m so everyone can bid you farewell


United Kingdom News
===================

[UK 1]******

From: Howpark <Howpark@aol.com>
Date: Friday 5th December 1997

Sighting in Wolverhampton

My partner was coming back from a meeting at about midnight on 5th
December (last night) when she saw what she at first thought was a
barn owl flying past the car (this is Wolverhampton) but she then
saw what she says was like five small plates grouped together but
moving around very fast as if they were logging her movements. They
were at about tree height but were not lights.

They did not shine very much except with a sort of translucent light
and there was no noise. She went into the house and when she looked
out of the window they were gone. She is a complete sceptic and is
not fan of sci-fi and she is unusually disturbed by this.

Has anyone seen anything similar?

Howard Parker

[UK 2]******

Source: Sunday Magazine
Publish Date: 30th November 1997
From: Calb1701 <Calb1701@aol.com>

UFOs OR FAKES?  YOU DECIDE

Is there life beyond Earth?  These new exclusive pictures of these
UFO sightings in the UK were caught on camera and video by Sunday
readers. Nick Fiace asked Nick Pope, a Ministry of defence expert and
the author of the best seller Open Skies, Closed Minds, to give his
verdict on the evidence.  Now make up your own minds.

I BELIEVE IN ALIENS! AND THIS IS THE FINAL PROOF

Sci-fi freak Marcel Riddell could hardly believe his luck four months
ago when his sister Ruth pointed excitedly through her bedroom
window. In the sky above a neighbour's house, there was the classic
UFO hovering.  The 14-year-old snatched his sister's camera and began
to fire off shots.  This photograph was taken on her Hanimex camera,
bought by their father Alan at a car boot sale for $4.

He pressed the button twice but when Marcel went to take a third
photograph the UFO had disappeared.  Marcel whose from Dersingham in
Norfolk, says: "It's the first UFO I've ever seen.  It's marvellous,
now I really believe they exist and there is life on other planets.
Sadly, only Ruth and I saw it, even though it was there or a time. I
believe UFOs come from outer space and are operated by people, not
necessarily humans, who are much cleverer and more advanced than us.
There are secret bases in the desert where this sort of thing is all
worked out.  I believe if UFOs landed whatever was inside the craft
wouldn't want to harm us. But they might do experiments on humans to
see what we are like and find out what makes us tick. When I told my
friends, they didn't believe me.  But when I showed them the photos,
they had to take it as proof."

Ruth who's 11, says: "I believe in UFOs.  I've always been
interested in them and I always asked about them but nobody could
tell me very much.  This is the final proof I needed."

Marcel's 51-year-old farther Alan, who works in the village shop
says: "My son has never told me a lie, and so if he says it is a UFO
in the picture then I believe him.  I have asked Marcel over and
over again about it and he swears to me that this is no hoax."

Nick Pope's verdict:

"The photo appears to show a structured craft and it's one of the
most interesting photos I've seen of late.  It should be subjected to
a full study at a photographic lab."

IT STOOD STILL - THEN VANISHED IN A FLASH

As bar manager Derek Davis relaxed during a work break, his boss
Gordon Wilson pointed to a bright light, which had been hovering in
the night shy for 10 minutes.  Derek had been to busy watching TV
and eating a snack in the room above the bar where he worked to spot
the unexplained object.

Gordon, co-owner of Dream Bar in Edinburgh, cried out: "Derek,
there's a light in the sky that isn't moving." Derek, 26 and
pictured right, recalls that the sighting was at about 10.30pm on
August 15 this year.  "Gordon happened to have his camcorder with him
and he pointed it at the light.  It was stationary and then vanished
in the blink of am eye.

"The light reappeared later and there was a red glow in front of the
cloud cover.  To the naked eye, the shape appeared as a ball of
light from a distance." But when Gordon zoomed in on it with his
camcorder, it revealed a spinning spiral, which was hovering, in the
shy about two miles away. At first, I thought maybe it was a
helicopter but it wasn't like any helicopter or aeroplane I had seen
before. I'm quite open-minded about calling it a natural phenomenon.
I believe that there are things in the sky we don't see everyday, but
I'm not going to say I believe in alien life forms.  Still, it was
exciting and it makes you think."

Nick Pope's verdict:

"Sometimes when you zoom in, you get an image on the camcorder lens
that regulates the light hovering or flying towards their field of
view."

DID OUR SECURITY CAMERA FILM A VISITOR FROM SPACE?

When William Cox turned up for work, he was greeted by an excited
security guard who had shot some remarkable footage an hour earlier
in the sky. William, who worked for the electricity board, watched
stunned with tape of a hovering disc-shaped object. The security
guard had spotted the UFO at 6pm on September 12, 1993, in the
Worsley area of Manchester.  He decided to focus one of the outside
security cameras on it and zoom in. William, a 47-year-old farther of
one from Wigan, says: "I'd never seen a UFO before except on TV. When
he showed me the film, I thought, 'What the hell is it?'  I was
shocked and stunned.  |The guards were excited because they didn't
know what it was.  The security guard saw it travel across the
skyline and when he turned the camera on it, it stopped in mid-air.
It was there for about four minutes and then he said it just vanished
suddenly."

The UFO first appeared as a ball of light.  But when the camera
panned in on it, the shape rushed quickly towards the lens, before
darting away and coming back again. The camera close-up revealed a
circular light with a dark line shifting across the centre of it. It
was just like a bright light in the sky, and it was only when he
zoomed in with the camera that he saw the actual shape," says
William. "His colleague confirmed everything.  They called me and a
couple of managers in and we all huddled in a cabin to watch it.
There was quite a bit of excitement at the time.  We reported it to
the police and Manchester Airport but they were told there was
nothing in the area at the time. It seemed strange to me, but our
management decided there was no further action we could take."
William says the sighting was a one-off and nothing had been seen in
the area before or since. "We were more amazed than anything." He
says. "You hear of these things and you see pictures on the
television, but when it happens near your workplace, it makes you
think.  Perhaps there is something out there after all."

Nick Pope's verdict:

"Again, I think this is the consequence of zooming in and out.
There's a possibility that the light could have been Venus viewed
from an exceptionally bright magnitude."

[UK 3]******

Source: Daily Telegraph newspaper
Publish Date: Monday 8th December 1997
From: Crow & Raine

Cornwall prepares for a total eclipse

Sean O'Neill talks to the council officer who will keep disaster at
bay when the lights go out.

ASTRONOMERS will tell you that it is unmissable, something worth
travelling thousands of miles to see. A total solar eclipse of the
kind which will be visible from Cornwall on the morning of Aug
11,1999, is a once in a lifetime event: midnight darkness in the
middle of a summer day.

There has not been a total eclipse visible from the mainland since
June 1927; there will not be another until September 2090.

The centre line of the 1999 eclipse, along which totality will last
for two minutes six seconds, finds land near St Just, runs eastward
through Falmouth and on towards Europe.

Half a million are expected to travel to see it, adding to the half
a million visitors who will already be in Cornwall at the height of
the holiday season.

Whatever the astronomers say, the Cornish will tell you it is a
recipe for disaster. Expect 30-mile traffic jams, no hotel beds,
overpriced fast food and mountains of rubbish.

An Eclipse Summit is being held in Truro this week at which
scientists, planners, police, firemen, health officials, transport
chiefs and other interested parties will try to bring order to the
expected mayhem.

Steve Winston, Cornwall's emergency planning officer, likens the
task to waiting for a meteorite to hit. "The eclipse itself will do
no harm, but the people who come to see it could cause great damage,"
said Mr Winston. "Off-the- wall planning is what we do in this
department, dealing with catastrophe. This might not be a
catastrophe, but it could be in that league."

Without a cash injection from Government, the eclipse could create a
financial crisis for Cornwall. It will place a massive strain on
local resources and produce little in return.

Cornwall's biggest gripe is that the eclipse will happen when the
tourist season is at its peak. The county's hotels, campsites,
beaches and bars will already be full. "At that time of year we
normally expect to double the population of the county," said Mr
Winston. "We expect accommodation problems. I know some hotels took
bookings from astronomers as long as seven years ago." Many are
already fully booked for eclipse week.

Mr Winston lists a myriad of other problems: Can archaeological
sites be protected against New Age eclipse rituals? How will
ambulances get along congested roads to reach the injured? And can he
be sure everyone will heed the safety warnings not to look directly
at the eclipse with the naked eye?

"We have to strike the balance between making sure people get the
maximum from viewing the eclipse and preventing them from doing
themselves permanent eye damage," he said.

Despite the preparations, there is one problem beyond any  planner's
control. Should it rain or cloud over, as if often does in Cornwall
in August, there will be nothing worth seeing. "In which case,"
sighed Mr Winston, "we will have half a million very fed up people on
our hands."

UK.UFO.NW says: We will be there to witness this and will bring you
a full report and photographs late in 1999.

[UK 4]******

Source: Leicester Mercury newspaper
Publish Date: 23rd December 1997
From: Calb1701 <Calb1701@aol.com>

Strange case of the A46 UFO remains a mystery

What did all these people see in the sky?

UFO Investigator Kirk Hargrave-Parsons likes to keep an open mind.

"If something is not fully and properly explained beyond a shadow of
a doubt then every explanation is true and every explanation is also
untrue." He set up the Charnwood UFO Research Group (CUFORG) a
number of years ago after a fascination that has been going on "since
I could read." The biggest mystery to date came early on in its
history. It started in East Stafford-shire and moved into
Leicestershire and then Rutland.

"We had 30 reliable sightings including policemen, school dinner
ladies, teachers, and we investigated it thoroughly. We still don't
know what it was.

"The Ministry of Defence said it was nothing to do with them and
East Midlands Air-port didn't pick anything up." One school of
thought was bat it was a military aircraft. "Someone tried taking a
picture but all they got was a black photograph," said Kirk. It was
first sighted by two teenage boys in Burton-on--Trent.

Red light

They described a diamond shaped formation of white sights with a
single red light in the centre, which moved steadily and was
accompanied by a faint electrical humming or whining. both boys said
the lights appeared to be on the under-side of a flattish craft.
When investigators drew a blank they appealed in local papers and
were inundated with similar tales of clusters of lights. A group of
students travelling on the A46 towards Leicester claimed to see a
cluster of tights moving over Ratcliffe-on-the-Wreake towards South
Croxton and Lowesby.

And a man, who only identified himself as Jim X, who aid he was
carrying out illegal metal-detecting at Sauvey Castle near Owston, on
the sight, wrote that his detector consistently malfunctioned and of
the atmosphere becoming- heavy and oppressive. He said that he
flashed his torch into the sky a few times and claims to have
received answering flashes. He then realised his torch- beam was
reflecting back off a large metallic craft. He panicked and ran.

GUFORG concluded all the evidence pointed to a strange craft flying
around the East Midlands. It was probably dark grey, flattish and
roughly oblong with a pointed or tapered front end. Kirk said: "We
like to get there as soon as possible and interview witnesses face
to face, you can find out an awful lot by watching their body
language, and it is a chance to see where the sighting took place."
No stone is left unturned in their efforts to uncover if we are not
alone. They check Ordnance Survey maps, where the object came from,
the direction it went to, then they contact airfields and Leicester
Astronomical. Society and even BR. Some mysterious sightings turn out
to have quite comical explanations. Kirk recalled one man who had
recently moved home who spoke of regularly seeing lights moving
quickly outside his home. What he hadn't realised was his new home
was close to a railway line.

Hoax

"We try to eliminate as many possible reasons for a UFO as we can
and in 99 out of 100 we find the UFO is of a fairly mundane origin or
a hoax." And believe it or not there are usually a glut of calls
around November 5. "1 would hope they were joking, but we get calls
from people saying there were bright lights suddenly disappearing
after a loud bang." But then there are the one per cent of cases
where there is no rational expla nation...

Venus may be that UFO

VENUS can account for a large number of so-called UFO sightings. Dr
Martin Barstow, Leicester University lecturer in physics and
astronomy. believes people are genuinely mistaken when there is an
obvious explanation. "I don't believe UFOs exist, I have never seen
any good evidence "As scientists we are here to try to prove things,
it is easy to prove something exists once you find it, but trying to
prove something doesn't exist is very difficult. "As part of a
research programme in the States we were flying rockets and nearly
every time we got about 100 reports of UFOs. "It gives you an idea of
how bright things affects people's perception of what is going on."
He said that Venus, currently visible in the night sky as a bright
light, was one of the most commonly mistaken lights in the sky. "If
you are moving around or driving it will seem that Venus is following
you and moving very quickly. Because it is faraway it tricks your
brain and you lose all sense of perspective and you get this optical
illusion," added Dr Barstow. Helicopters displaying lights may often
produce the same results.

[UK 5]******

Scientists listen intently for ET

British scientists are to help American experts search for evidence
of extraterrestrial life. Radio astronomers at Jodrell Bank in
Cheshire are to take part in a project linking two of the world's
biggest radio telescopes.

The 250ft Lovell Telescope, which is operated by the University of
Manchester, will provide support to the vast 1,000ft telescope at
Arecibo in Puerto Rico. It is hoped the project will start next
month.

Over a 10-year period, the two instruments will listen for
artificial radio messages which could signify an attempt at
communication by an alien civilisation.

The telescopes can pick up radio waves within a range of 150 light
years from the Earth. They will be focusing on the parts of space
where 2,000 stars similar to our sun are located.

The programme is a turning point for the American organisation
dedicated to discovering whether or not we really are alone in the
universe.

The SETI Institute (Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence)
currently operates a relatively small 140ft radio telescope at
Greenbank, West Virginia.

Later this year the the institute will switch to using the telescope
in Puerto Rico. At 1000ft in diameter it is the largest single-dish
radio telescope in the world.

How will it work?

The telescope at Arecibo is built in the natural hollow of a
mountain and uses the rotation of the Earth to scan the sky.

Jodrell Bank's role will be to confirm any likely candidates for
extraterrestrial messages and help locate their source.

Using two telescopes at different points on the Earth will also
reduce ground-based interference and enable the astronomers to
locate the source of a signal much more accurately.

SETI's space scanning programme, Project Phoenix, was launched in
the 1970's. Dr Richard Davis, senior lecturer in physics and
astronomy at Manchester University, said: "People often wonder why
SETI hasn't been successful so far, but a serious search has not been
made to date.

"This is the first time we've had a system that's really up to the
job. If there are any transmissions out there, we'll find them."

Scientists hope the Lovell telescope can be devoted to SETI for at
least one month a year.

"Crossing the threshold"

Dr Seth Shostak, from the SETI Institute, said he expected to find
clear evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence in the next 10 to 15
years.

"It seems not unreasonable to think we may now be crossing the
threshold," he said.

Dr Shostak said the best hope of success was to find a message that
was sent to Earth by aliens who intended it to be discovered. Other
ET broadcasts might well be completely unintelligible to humans. Dr
Davis is a little less confident than his American colleague about
locating a signal.

"Hand on heart, we don't know if we'll be successful. The chances
are that something like 100th of the star systems out there will have
planets like the Earth. I'm keeping an open mind."


World News
==========

[W 1]******

Source: Daily Mail newspaper
Publish Date: Thursday 8th January 1998
From: Crow & Raine

Are aliens being cut off by gas in the galaxy?

IF little green men really are trying to call Earth, they may be
having problems getting through. According to a new theory from
astronomers, signals from alien civilisations to mankind are likely
to be disrupted by vast clouds of gas, deep in the heart of space.

If the theory is right, we may have already been contacted by extra
terrestrials - but failed to recognise the message.

Every year, intriguing radio signals are picked up by U.S.
scientists working for SETI - the Search for Extra Terrestrial
Intelligence. But because the signals have been fleeting, and have
never been repeated, they have been put down to random noise from
space or glitches in the equipment rather than calls from another
civilisation.

Now some of the most respected astronomers in America say those brief
messages might herald tantalising clues about deep space. Few radio
signals picked up by SETI have even lasted more than 20 or 30
seconds, supporting the old random origins theory.

But a new academic paper says the signals may be distorted by
electrically charged gas between the stars.

This could alter a reading by 20 times, either boosting it or
reducing it. That means scientists wouid have to search a patch of
sky tens of thousands of times before they had a chance of recording
a repeat signal, whatever its origins.

According to Joseph Lazio, one of the paper's authors, current SETI
data is inconclusive. 'It's compatible with both zero and tens of
thousands of ET civilisations,' he sald. 'Many more observations are
needed before we can say anything concrete.'

[W 2]******

Source: Philip Mantle (BUFORA)
e-mail: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: 8th December 1997

Philip Corso & the alien autopsy

I don't know what to make of Colonel Philip J.Corso and his book
'The Day After Roswell', but Corso was recently interviewed in the
UK-based magazine 'The X-Factor' (issue 25).

One question put to Corso was:

Have you seen the Roswell autopsy video ?

I saw the Roswell footage and I saw some things in it that nobody
could have known about, so maybe that gives it authenticity, I don't
know. I lean towards the opinion that it is authentic, but I can't
really tell you that I'm 100 per cent sure.

What this says about Corso and Ray Santilli's film I'm not sure. Any
comments ?

Philip Mantle.

[W 3]******

From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com>
Date: 9th December 1997

UK.UFO.NW Dave says: I read the below report from Joseph with great
interest as I have experienced sleep paralysis myself, although I
have to say Alien's and UFOs were not involved.

Sleep Paralysis - Frequently asked questions

Skeptics often use 'sleep paralysis' to explain (or explain away)
Alien Abductions, Old Hag Attacks and other paranormal phenomena.
How realistic is this?

Q.  What is Sleep Paralysis?

During REM-sleep [Rapid-Eye Movement or dream sleep], the brain sends
out a signal immobilizing the body so that we do not act out our
dreams. That is sleep paralysis. Everyone experiences it several
times a night, whenever they enter a period of REM sleep, about every
90 minutes.

Q.  Well, okay, but we're usually not aware of all these episodes of
sleep paralysis.

Precisely! It's the presence of *Awareness* during Sleep Paralysis
[ASP] that makes a difference.

Q.  ASP? Could you be a little more specific?

Have you ever found yourself lying fully conscious or in a dreamlike
state, unable to move or cry out, while perhaps experiencing
auditory or visual phenomena? If so, you have experienced Awareness
during Sleep Paralysis [ASP].

ASP experiencers often feel intense fear and may even believe that
they are dying. Experiencers often sense the presence of an unseen,
malevolent being. An episode of ASP can occur while the body sleeps
in any position, but it is much more likely while sleeping on one's
back. Often experiencers feel the pressure of a crushing weight on
their chest as if being pushed downward into the bed. A few sense a
what seems to be a phantom being sitting on their chest. They may be
unable to feel the breathing process continue, but those who see
their chest can see it continue to inhale and exhale --- they just
don't feel it as the body has gone to sleep while the consciousness
remains alert despite reduced sensory input from the body.

Q.  How can Sleep Paralysis be used to explain Alien Abductions, Old
Hag Attacks and other paranormal experiences?

Sleep Paralysis *can't* explain any of these or other anomalous
experiences.

Since everyone experiences sleep paralysis, it does not differentiate
between those who report Alien Abductions Experiences, Old Hag
Attacks, Incubi/Succubi Visitations, Lucid Dream Events or
Out-of-Body Experiences, and those who don't report these unusual
experiences.

What *does* differentiate between experiencers and non-experiencers
is that experiencers report Awareness during Sleep Paralysis.

-[continued in part 3]-








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 8

                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:39:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:39:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?

Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:47:44 +1030
From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
To: updates@globalserve.net
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:44:15 EST
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
> >Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:26:07 EST
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:57:22 -0500
> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >> Alex,

> >> You could only see lens flare travel around the sky if you were
> >> looking THROUGH the camera and moving it.  If you saw this with
> >> your naked eye and then caught it on camera, that would be very
> >> different.

> >> Maybe the aliens have learned to cleverly disguise their craft
> >> so that they look just like lens flare in photos!!

> >> Bob

> >Hi Bob,

> > This ORB was seen with my eyes, did you read the story?
> > thanks,

> >ALEX CAVALLARI

> Alex,

> Don't even waste your time responding to people who aren't taking
> you seriously and trying to make you look like a hoaxer. How many
> times do you have to tell them that you saw it with your eyes? If
> people can help you great, but if all they want to do is question
> your intelligence then you have to ask yourself, why?

> Even if the 'object' was a lens flare, (and I doubt that it was
> since you said you saw it with your eyes first) that doesn't
> answer Jennifer's question regarding the success of
> telepathically communicating with such objects.

> Let me try to get an answer for you. This is for anybody on this
> List who can help Jennifer out. If I see a big grey, silvery disc
> shaped object hovering over my house, and 20 people in attendance
> all see it too, how could we try to communicate with it? Has
> anybody had luck in trying to communicate with similar unknown
> objects? Please address your experiences to Jennifer or Alex.

> Thanks!

Hi Joe!!

Thanks for getting this back on track.

Attached is a gif. of an "unknown" that I documented back in May.

I was not aware of any "communication" between self and said
"unknown/s," but, I DID ask it/them to show themselves again!!!!

It/they  kindly manifested  on three consecutive evenings, and I
don't think that THIS was a lens flare.


Best wishes.

JJ

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 8

                      Photo Of UFO Over Vancouver 1992?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:04:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:04:10 -0500
Subject: Photo Of UFO Over Vancouver 1992?

Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 12:59:30 -0800
To: <updates@globalserve.net>
From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver)
Subject: Photo Of UFO Over Vancouver 1992?

List,

UFO*BC was sent this picture recently. Indeed it appears to be
Vancouver for certain. I believe I even have the area pinned down
however further details were not given us besides the date it was
taken and that the pic was part of a complete roll taken that
day.

We would like to talk to the people involved.

Can anybody help us out?

Bill Oliver
UFO*BC








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   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 8

                  {88} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:39:05 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:25:10 -0500
Subject: {88} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network

        ______ _______ ____
------ /  /  //  ____//    |----------------------------------------------
 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  '                                 Feb 8th, 1998
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K                 part 3 Issue 88
--- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------

The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 40 countries.

This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be
reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g.  Repost {88} part 1, part 2 or part 3.

Q.  How does this make a difference?

Someone for whom the Awareness is more immediate, more significant,
than the feelings of bodily immobility may take control of the
situation and aim for a more positive outcome. The experience of
bodily immobility may become a gateway to a lucid dream or
out-of-body experience.

Q.  What about people who believe they are being abducted by aliens?
How do they turn the situation toward a more positive outcome?

Abduction researcher, Ann Druffel, found numerous abductees who
warded off an impending abduction or aborted an abduction in the
early stages. Interestingly enough, the techniques these abductees
used are the same as those used by others to ward off visitations by
entities not perceived as being aliens but as demons, the old hag or
whatever.

Q.  What are these techniques?

They range from attempting to move a finger or a toe (in order to
end the paralysis and, hence, the experience), to invoking the name
of a spiritual entity.

Q.  How can I learn more?

A lengthy file on the subject of responding constructively when Aware
during and episode of Sleep Paralysis, Respond.txt,  is available
from ASP-L, the Awareness during Sleep Paralysis mailing list. To
obtain the file send an email msg with the command 'Get-Respond.txt'
(without quotes, but with the file extension) in the SUBJECT: field
to:

---

ASP-L is a mailing list for the discussion of Awareness during Sleep
Paralysis [ASP] and experiences with which it has been associated:
Lucid Dreaming, Out-of-Body Experiencing, Alien Abductions, Old Hag
Attacks and Supernatural assaults such as the Incubus/Succubus
assault.

To subscribe to the list, send the word "Subscribe" (without quotes)
in the SUBJECT: field of your msg to:

nightflyer@mindspring.com

ASP-L is a service of the Trionic Research Institute,
http://www.trionica.com

Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com>
List Moderator

[W 4]******

Source: Las Vegas Sun
Publish Date: 8th January 1998

Toxic data at Area 51 ruled confidential

By Bob Egelko

SAN FRANCISCO - An attempt to pry loose information about alleged
toxic waste burning at a secret Air Force site in the Nevada desert
- said to be the "Area 51" of extraterrestrial lore - hit a stone
wall of secrecy in a federal appeals court Thursday.

Lawyers for five current and former workers at the base, and the
widows of two workers allegedly killed by toxic wastes, are not
entitled to learn whether hazardous substances exist there or how
they are handled, the results of a federal toxics inspection or even
the name of the base, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said.

The 3-0 ruling upheld the Air Force's claim that giving out that
information could endanger national security and a 1995 order by
President Clinton further restricting disclosure. Before arguments
in the case last November, the judges reviewed confidential
government statements, while Air Force security officers guarded
their conference room.

Besides the classified statements, the court cited an unclassified
filing by Air Force Secretary Sheila Widnall, who said information
about certain chemicals in the soil or water "can reveal military
operational capabilities or the nature and scope of classified
operations."

The court, in an opinion by Judge Pamela Rymer, said the disclosure
of even "seemingly innocuous information" can be barred if it is part
of a "mosaic" of classified information.

"The court cannot order the government to disentangle this
information from other classified information," Rymer said. She said
the court was persuaded not only that the information was properly
withheld, but also that "any further proceeding in this matter would
jeopardize national security."

Jonathan Turley, a Georgetown law professor who represented the
workers, said the ruling "sets an extremely dangerous precedent" for
anyone seeking information from the military.

"This case has nothing to do with national security," he said. "I
obviously know what happened at Area 51. My (clients) worked at Area
51. ...This case has to do with criminal violations" of hazardous
waste laws. He said he would seek a rehearing from the entire court
and, if unsuccessful, appeal to the Supreme Court. But Turley said
the two lawsuits have also accomplished an important goal: forcing
the government to acknowledge the site and conduct a toxics
inspection, although results of the inspection were not made public.

Justice Department spokesman Joe Krovisky declined comment, saying
government lawyers had not seen the ruling.

Area 51, about 90 miles north of Las Vegas, is a base where military
aircraft such as the U-2 and Stealth fighter were tested. Its
secrecy and remoteness have been prime fodder for UFO buffs, who link
the site to the supposed crash of an alien spacecraft at Roswell,
N.M. - a scenario played out in the movie "Independence Day."

In the current case, the government identified the site in question
as "the operating location near Groom Lake" and denied it was Area
51. The court left the denial unchallenged after reviewing classified
material. Turley scoffed at the denial, saying the name was verified
in a government security manual as well as declarations from workers
and security officials.

The lawsuits said employees at the base routinely put hazardous
chemicals in open 55-gallon drums and burned them. The suits said
the exposure killed two workers, Walter Kasza, 73, and Robert Frost,
57, whose widows Turley represents, and injured the other plaintiffs.

Turley said Frost, before his death, lost a workers' compensation
claim for his injuries, and Kasza never filed one. The workers
sought no damages but requested a court finding that the Air Force
stored toxic wastes without a permit, and orders forbidding
transportation and burning of toxics.

U.S. District Judge Philip Pro denied the requests but ruled that
the results of an Environmental Protection Agency inspection of the
site, conducted in response to one suit, would have to be made public
unless Clinton intervened. The president then barred disclosure under
a law that lets him exempt any federal facility from requirements of
a federal toxic cleanup law.

The government appealed Pro's ruling, saying the report should have
been declared secret under national security without the president's
intervention, which must be renewed annually. The court declined to
decide the issue, saying it was no longer a live controversy because
of Clinton's action.

Rymer's opinion denying disclosure and ordering dismissal of the
case was joined by Judge Harlington Wood of the 7th U.S. Circuit
Court of Appeals, temporarily assigned to the panel. In a separate
opinion, Judge A. Wallace Tashima said secrecy was proper but should
require a presidential order rather than a subordinate's declaration
of national security.

The case is Kasza vs. Browner, 96-15535.

[W 5]******

Source: alt.alien.visitors"
Date: 14th January 1998
From: bernhard.nahrgang@ob.kamp.net (Bernhard Nahrgang)

Transmit An ET-mail Into Space

Email ET only at the Alien Contact Network

For a limited time we are offering the users of this newsgroup the
opportunity to transmit an ET-mail (for free) into space using our
very powerful 12Kw 2meter transceivers. The signal is relayed by at
least four other high power radio stations in a 50 mile radius. If
they are out there, they will hear us. We also listen 24Hrs.

This is a genuine World's First !!

Let's see how soon we get shut down..

http://www.alien-contact.net

Any other 2m radio stations out there who want to join the fun
please email webmaster@alien-contact.net

uk.ufo.nw says: At the time of publishing we have not visited this
site but would be interested to hear from anyone who has.

[W 6]******

From: Mark Lee Center <enzoab@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Saturday 17th January 1998

MEXICO CITY UFO VIDEO WILL AIR IN MARCH

Another major special, this time on the UPN network, will feature the
already-famous daylight UFO videotape shot over Mexico City on August
6, 1997. Though stills from the video and a quick-time version have
been posted on the web, this UPN special, scheduled for Wednesday,
March 11, will provide the first opportunity for most Americans to
learn about this Mexico City event.

Posted promo on the show reads as follows:

"From executive producers Henry Winkler and Ann Daniel
("Sightings"), this riveting one-hour special centers around
never-before-seen video footage of a recent UFO sighting in Mexico
City, and explores the phenomenon of unidentified flying objects
while examining other recent, mysterious observations in the night
sky. Stephen Kroopnick is the co-executive producer. The special is
produced by Fair Dinkum and Ann Daniel in association with Paramount
Network Television."

Since the UFO video was released to Paramount by famed Mexican
newsman Jaime Maussan, CNI News expects the TV special will also
include excerpts from Maussan's videotaped interviews with Mexico
City eyewitnesses who saw the August 6 UFO. This should be a good
program.
The special, titled "UFO Sighting!" airs Wednesday, March 11 at 9pm
Eastern time. Check your local listings.

[W 7]******

Source: QVC Inc
Date: February 3rd 1998

edited for length:

Mir Cosmonauts to appear live on QVC

Company press release

Live From Outer Space: MIR Cosmonauts To Appear On The First
Intergalactic Edition Of QVC's "First Friday: Extreme Shopping" -
MIR Cosmonaut Aleksandr Lazutkin also Scheduled to appear from NYC's
'Catch a Rising Star' airs Friday Night, February 6th from 1 am - 2
am (ET)

Somewhere in Outer Space -- QVC will take shopping to new heights as
it welcomes Russian cosmonauts, live via satellite from the MIR
Space Station, to take a break from their navigational duties and
join the party at ``First Friday: Extreme Shopping.'' The February
edition of QVC's late-night series will focus on out-of-this-world
treasures including Mars rocks, meteorites, space uniforms and the
famed ``astronaut'' space pens. This special ``Extreme Space''
edition will air live from legendary Catch a Rising Star comedy club
in New York City on Friday, February 6th from 1:00 a.m. ET/10 p.m. PT
- 2:00 a.m.ET/11 p.m. PT.

Russian Cosmonaut Aleksandr Lazutkin, flight engineer on last
summer's historic edge-of-your-seat MIR mission, will also share his
harrowing adventures with QVC viewers. Lazutkin will appear live on
the telecast from the Catch a Rising Star comedy club in New York
City along with five rising young comics whose spacey observations
will provide comic relief.

``QVC not only scours the planet, it scours the universe in its
search for unique products,'' said Fred Siegel, senior vice president
of marketing for QVC. ``In the true spirit of interplanetary detente,
we are delighted that the Russian space agency has accepted QVC's
invitation to 'go live' from the MIR.''

MIR Cosmonauts will demonstrate the uses and features of the Fisher
Space Pen, the only pen to write in the gravity- free void, freezing
cold (-50 F) and extreme heat (+250 F) of space. Since 1967,
astronauts on manned space flights, including the moon, have used
the Fisher Space Pen, with its sealed pressurized ink cartridge, to
write at any angle, even upside down.

For viewers looking for a more complete space experience or just
unique evening attire, QVC will make the Sokol KV- 2 Pressure space
suit available. The standard launch and reentry suit is used by all
cosmonauts and worn by American astronauts for emergency reentry
from the MIR Space Station. The suit weights approximately 22 lbs.,
includes a pressurized hood and is complete with boots, gloves plus
all fittings. QVC will make three suits available for $25,000 each.

Straight out of the heavens, viewers will also have an opportunity
to buy meteorites and chunks of Mars. A limited amount of meteorites
from Earth's most recent meteorite shower will be available, which
occurred in China on February 15, 1997 (Valentine's Day in the U.S.).
Many Chinese believed the shower foreshadowed the death of Communist
Party Leader Deng Xiaoping. Three meteorites of three inches in
diameter will be on sale for $2,500 each and twelve smaller
meteorites measuring one and one-half inches will be sold for $850
each.


Letters
=======

UK.UFO.NW have received a mail in confidence requesting that we ask
if any of you out there know of a Roman Catholic priest, English
speaking and preferably resident in the United Kingdom who
specialises in counselling Roman Catholics who have experienced
abductions.

If you are able to help with any information please mail us here at:

ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk

In the subject area please put: ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST

---

From: Tim Nightingale <tim.nightingale@virgin.net>
Date: Saturday 31st January 1998

Any East Anglia UFO groups

I'm interested in joining a UFO interest group in East Anglia. Are
there any such groups. If so could you provide me with a phone
number or e-mail address?

Thanks in advance, Tim.Nightingale@virgin.com


This Time last year
===================

January 1997

(UK) - Police baffled by massive explosion which rocks a Midland
Housing estate. Local BBC news reported it as either a sonic boom or
an unknown phenomenon.

(UK) - Ministry of Defence scientists blow up a Boeing 747 in an
attempt to find a bomb-proof passenger jet.

(UK) - More than 200 giant asteroids all at least two-thirds of a
mile wide could be heading towards the Earth's orbit. The asteroids
broke away from two giant clusters which follow Jupiter's orbit
around the sun.

(Tel Aviv) - Israel's Channel Two TV, stationed crews across the
country on Sunday night to capture any arrivals. Predicted by mystic
Helinor Harar who grabbed the spotlight with her extraterrestrial
News Years forecast.

(Italy) - Italy indulged in a bout of UFO fever on Tuesday after
witnesses reported seeing a strange green light flash through the
evening sky near Rome's main airport. It did not show on radar.

(Java) - According to tests on fossils found, not one but three
different human species co-existed on Earth around 35,000 years ago.
In other words, homo erectus survived for 250,000 years longer than
anyone thought.

(US) - Astronauts building an international space station high above
the Earth are to be protected by a massive ray gun. It is not that
they fear an attack by aliens, but rather space junk from
screwdrivers to asteroids.

(UK) - A photograph of a mysterious triangular-shaped object taken
by a landscape photographer is being treated by UFO experts as proof
that Britain is secretly developing a stealth-type warplane that is
light years head of the opposition.

(US) - The US Air Force became the latest victim of a series of
hacking attacks on government computers last week. Its home page was
covered in obscenities and bizarre allegations of alien landings.

(Paris) - (Reuter) PARIS - Earthlings will get a chance to send
messages to space aliens this year on a rocket bound for Saturn's
biggest moon, the European Space Agency (ESA) said Thursday.


---

A FEARFUL SYMMETRY

A TRUE STORY OF ALIEN INTRUSION INTO HUMAN LIVES

By D. Lynne Bishop

A FEARFUL SYMMETRY Copyright 1995 by D. Lynne Bishop

All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced,
stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any
means, electronic or mechanical including photocopying, recording or
otherwise without prior permission of the publisher, except by a
reviewer who may quote brief passages.

First Printing September 1995

Printed in the United States of America

BOOKFINDER PUBLISHING

http://bookfinder.simplenet.com/

Lynne Bishop's home page

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3862/

---

CHAPTER 10

The next several days following the Midwest UFO Conference were
quiet and uneventful.  Each of us digested the information we had
obtained--and I realized that, like an appetizer, the Conference had
only taken the edge off my hunger for knowledge.  I had been
introduced to vast new expanses of space and time, and with each
flight, my horizons were expanding.  I could see no end in sight, and
I was aware of how infinitesimal a speck I was in the universe I had,
willingly or unwillingly, become a part of.

On September 26, my husband and I visited with some friends in a
neighboring town.  We had been close friends for several years, and
because they knew us so well, my mood swings had been apparent to
them.  I had been unwilling, in the beginning, to tell them what was
causing the moods, but had finally thrown chance to the wind and
blurted the story to them--warts and all--so the topic of UFO
phenomenon had become common.

My husband and Jack never miss an opportunity to get together to
pursue their favorite pastime of playing with and talking about
computers.  This night was no different, and Mary and I sat on the
couch, trying to tune our husbands out.  We had watched television
off and on most of the evening.  It was a warm, Indian-summer night,
and the windows were down, letting in the faint breeze.  During a
lull in the conversation, we heard a distinctive click, and the
lights dimmed as the power fluctuated, and a surge protector
connected to their computer shut off.  We noticed it was around 8:30
P.M.  My husband and I laughed, telling our friends that the power at
our house fluctuated constantly.  They replied that they very rarely
had brownouts.  We forgot about the incident and continued our visit,
while my husband and Jack continued talking about the latest
advancements and updates in computer software.  Mary and I have a
tendency to doze off when they get started using "computerese"
language, so we were startled by the next power drain that occurred
about 9:30 P.M.  This was beginning to seem a little odd, but still
fell within the purview of a normal happening.  When the third, and
final outage struck at 10:30 P.M., we were really mystified, and our
hackles were rising.  This just couldn't be a normal occurrence!

Nothing further happened to alarm us, and my husband and I said our
farewells at 11:30 that night.  Jack and Mary followed us outside, as
we walked toward our car.  I had just opened the car door on the
passenger side, when Jack exclaimed, "Look at that strange light!"
Following his gaze, we all turned toward the northern sky.  There in
front of us was an orange-red sphere, floating silently in space.
There were no strobe lights and no other color, other than the single
orange glow.  Its movement was eerie--it seemed weightless.  I gulped
as I stared at it in fascinated, rapt attention.  With a recognition
born of sightings twenty years in the past, I knew this was the same
disc I had watched as a teenager.  Mary said, "That's the same thing I
used to see when I was around eleven or twelve years old!"  I stared
at her in amazement.

Jack ran back inside to get the binoculars, and the rest of us
continued watching the object, as it moved between the
constellations of Cassiopeia and The Big Dipper.  The sky was clear
with no overcast and no moon, and our vision was impeded only by some
large trees in the distance.  Only a few seconds passed, before he
returned with two pairs of binoculars.  We progressed on down their
driveway, as we attempted to keep the glowing object in sight.  The
sharp gravel suddenly reminded Jack that he had no shoes on, so he
returned to the house again.  As he returned for the second time, the
orange "light" had passed on out of view behind the range of trees.
The entire sighting had probably only lasted between two and three
minutes.

We all walked back down the driveway toward our car, talking
excitedly about what we'd just seen.  Speculation was running
rampant for a few seconds--could this be a true UFO?  There were no
red, white or green lights on the object.  It had been just the one
solid, steady orange glow.  There were no strobes that would be
indicative of regular aircraft, so we were non-plussed.

My husband and I got into our car and waved to Jack and Mary.
During the drive home, I scanned the sky frequently, hoping beyond
hope that it would show up again, but it remained an elusive enigma.

During the next few days, my husband and I settled back into our
regular work routine.  I seemed to have reached a plateau in my
search for answers to the alien abduction phenomenon.  The fence I was
straddling had become familiar, if not comfortable, and I wasn't sure
there was an open avenue to follow.  Throwing myself into my daily job
seemed the best idea, so I began focusing my attention on more mundane
matters.

My husband and Jack planned to attend a computer seminar in St.
Louis, Missouri on September 29, and for several days our energies
were devoted toward preparation for the trip.  Due to the distance
involved (roughly a six-hour trip, one way), my husband would need to
leave by 2:00 A.M. that morning.  Having never needed an alarm clock,
I awoke at 1:00 A.M. and told my husband it was time to get up.  He
mumbled something incoherent, and rolled over.  I again tried to wake
him up, and he growled at me.  About that time, the alarm clock he had
set went off--and he got up in a slight huff.  I decided it was an
excellent time to make him a cup of something with caffeine in it.

I headed toward the kitchen and microwaved (technology is a
wonderful thing!) a cup of tea for him, which he drank in a somewhat
better humor.  He finished dressing, and having forgiven me for waking
him ten minutes early, gave me a cheerful goodbye as he headed out the
door.  I turned to retrace my steps to the bedroom, and noticed the
digital clock in the living room.  It was 2:01 A.M. Contemplating
several more hours of restful sleep, I had no clue that all hell was
about to break loose.

My little half-breed mutt padded along behind me as I returned to the
bedroom, her footfalls adding a syncopated beat to the heavier tread
of my feet.  She joined me on the bed, taking her usual, (but not
favorite), location down at the foot of the bed.  After some
scrambling for position, she finally settled in, straddling my legs. I
closed my eyes, but was restless--and my legs had a cramped feeling
not related to the dog lying there.  I shifted position a couple
times, and finally came to rest in the center of the bed.  It had
turned off cool that night, and the dog seemed intent on sharing body
heat, for she again plopped down on top of my feet.  I closed my eyes,
thoughts of the dog and my husband revolving through my consciousness.

With no warning at all, I was suddenly and painfully jolted by a
shock wave!  In a panic, my thoughts screamed out, "It hurts!  It
hurts!"  I had no idea what was happening to me.  With a jolt
beginning at my toes and working immediately up my body to my scalp, I
was paralyzed.  It was instantaneous and complete--there was not a
hair on my head capable of moving.

I lay there, screaming in my mind, "What's going on?  I can't move! It
hurts!"  As if wrapped in a blindingly bright, white cocoon, my only
sensation was of light through my closed eyelids--yet there were no
lights on in the bedroom.  With a sickening lurch, I felt as if I had
been upended, and slammed into the headboard of the bed. The motion
continued into a twisting, spiraling, upward movement. Nauseated, I
thought frantically, "Oh, God--don't let me throw up!"

In horror, I realized I was spinning toward the ceiling.  My eyes flew
open for one brief moment, and I saw the ceiling fan and light only
inches from my face.  As I rapidly approached the ceiling, I closed my
eyes again.  Awaiting the inevitable pain of smashing into the
ceiling, I was instead wiped out by the realization that I had passed
through the ceiling and was continuing a twisting, turning motion
upward--higher and higher into the night sky.

There are moments in life that are transcendent--when a human being
comes into contact with something so far beyond the pale, that he
cannot survive the event without having been forever changed.  This
was my moment.

My screaming thoughts became more coherent as the spinning slowly
began to ebb, and my nausea lessened.  My fear was overwhelming--I
knew what had happened, but tried vainly to deny it.  My consciousness
swam in and out, and I blacked out.  Upon regaining consciousness, I
was lying prone on a hard, smooth surface.  I sensed motion around me,
and struggled against the invisible bonds that held me tightly in
place.  Nothing happened!  Desperation set in, and I fought harder
against the paralyzing grip that bound me--to no avail. The harder I
struggled, the tighter the force became.  I was tiring rapidly, and
gaining nothing.

With more guts than good sense, I decided to try something
different. My proof of the entire alien phenomenon was here before
me--if I would just take that chance.  All I had to do was open my
eyes and look.  Such an easy thing . . .

The decision to do just that was the hardest thing I've ever done in
my life.  Feeling like my eyelids were made of lead, I eased my eyes
open a faint crack.  "Oh, Goddamn--they're real!" I screamed in my
mind.  The gray-white, doe-eyed alien standing by my waist on the
right-hand side flinched, as if a force had hit him.  Panicked, I
closed my eyes, fighting to regain some composure.  Several minutes
passed, and I reasoned, "I can't believe it, just because I saw one
alien.  I'm going to look again, and if it's still there, I'll know
they are real."

Summoning up every ounce of courage I possessed, I again opened my
eyes.  To my left, at about waist-level, was another gray-white alien.
 In the short moment before my consciousness faded, I was able to see
that his head was flatter on top and he wore a white outfit, similar
to a smock.  As I stared directly into his Oriental dark-brown eyes, I
was soothed by an intense wave of relaxation and peace.  I knew this
alien.  He was my protector, my friend--my companion of past years,
and guide for the years to come.  With the cessation of fear and
anxiety, I closed my eyes and drifted, his promise of, "No harm will
come to you," ringing through my head.

"Fingers!", I mentally screamed, as I came bolt alert, both eyes
wide open and focused on the smaller, large-headed alien.  With
astonishing dexterity, the long fingers beat a rapid rhythm across my
belly, from right to left.  Having finished one circumference, they
began again, in fast succession.  Disgust and horror rose within me,
completely stifling any thoughts of peace and goodwill.  With each
palpation, the clear, gelatinous goop adhering to its hand left a
sticky, wet residue behind.

Depression overcame my senses.  I was completely impotent, at the whim
and mercy of an entity that was not human.  At that moment, I
surrendered.  I closed my eyes and went away mentally--away from a
creature whose motivations I could not understand, and away from what
it was doing to my body.  My proof had been established on a conscious
level, but I could not watch further.

Some time passed, and I again became clearly aware of my
surroundings.  As my eyes blearily peered ahead, I saw a piece of
striated tissue, red and black, lying near my feet.  "Surgery," I
thought dimly.  Feeling woozy and anesthetized, I tried to make out
features of the tissue, but could not identify it.  With my head
swimming, I sank again into oblivion.

And awoke to find myself somewhere else.  With my sense of hearing
returning, but still paralyzed, I was being half-lifted, half-dragged
through a room containing numerous small end-tables. These tables were
stacked with odd equipment and books, and flanked the left-hand wall.
As my unseen escort dragged me through the room toward a doorway,
three men--dressed in black--watched impassively, no hint of emotion
warming their cold features.

Completely in my escort's power, I was dragged past these men into the
room beyond, and dropped on the floor, like a piece of baggage. From
my vantage point, I could barely discern the hint of a laboratory in
the gleam of metallic equipment.  I heard and saw what appeared to be
a stream of water, running down a sluice.  Clear at first, the water
quickly turned a murky, dirty color, and strange clumps of a vaguely
meat-like substance floated through.  An apparatus with a suction-cup
device attached to the end was lowered into this liquid, perhaps
suctioning out the tissue.  A salty, tangy smell assailed my nostrils,
and I was momentarily nauseated again.

The sound of a male voice drifted from behind, and a swarthy,
middle-aged man entered my field of vision.  As I gazed at
him--thick black hair, full mustache, heavy jowls, possibly a Latino
or of Mediterranean extraction--the hatred I felt for this man was a
palpable force.  I knew this man--knew I hated him.  And I was in his
power.

Within seconds, a woman joined him.  Also of dark complexion, she was
a fitting companion for this man I detested.  Her long, jet black hair
was parted severely down the middle, and fell past her shoulders,
flowing into the black dress she wore.  She stood there arrogantly, as
if daring me to recognize her.  With a gut-wrenching sense of
betrayal, I knew this woman had in the past been a trusted friend--and
now knew her to be a traitor.

The two conferred with each other briefly, and my still unseen
escort roughly lifted me from the floor.

Upon regaining an upright position, I realized I had some mobility,
and the ability to speak was returning.  As our strange group exited
the laboratory and reentered the room with the end-tables, I
purposefully gazed into the woman's face.  "I will remember you.  I
will remember this!", I said to her with vengeance in my heart.
Shock was evident in the startled glance she threw at me.  Regaining
her composure, she all but sneered, "No, you won't."  With utter
conviction, I replied, "Yes, I will!"

We exited a very human-looking high-rise building, and the man and
woman walked toward a very sleek, highly polished black car.  My
escort manhandled me into a nondescript black car, and got behind
the wheel.  As the couple drove by us, heading in the opposite
direction, with a last defiant gesture, I stuck up the middle finger
of my right hand.  The look on the woman's face told me I had broken
through her self-control.

I had no time to congratulate myself--for quite suddenly I was lying
on the table in the ship again.  My silly, familiar,
always-in-trouble dog was walking toward my face--and I suddenly
thought of my brother's dachshund, its features appearing in my
swirling, nebulous thoughts. My thoughts became less substantial,
finally drifting away.

At 4:00 A.M., with no transition from a sleep state to an awake
state, I was back home, in bed.  The dog was unusually quiet, and
made none of her characteristic movements.  I was scared to death and
angry--and no longer straddling the fence.  Alien abduction was a
physical reality.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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If you are using one of the dedicated IRC programs such as the
excellent MIRC available free from: http://www.mirc.co.uk/index.html
enter one of the below irc server addresses into your program. The
nearer the server to your location the faster the connection. If one
fails then try another.

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      Search for other documents from or mentioning: ufo | nightflyer |





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 8

                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:21:11 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:15:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?

> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:01:08 +1030
> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: "ORBARAMA"

> Dear Updates.

> In  my earlier post which included a gif. file of an "event" that
> I documented last May, I neglected to include details of the
> camera that was used.

> For your information:

> PANASONIC "OmniMovie" VHS format.
> PV-610-K
> 8:1 Power Zoom

> At the time of this "event" I was also using a X 5.5 Tokina
> converter

> I then had "stills" taken off the VHS tape..

> Sorry about the oversight.

> Best wishes,

> JJ

JJ...

Was this frame the clearest image obtained from the video?  There
is obvious camera motion (blur) and restricts analysis greatly.
As I pointed out to Alex in a previous post...comparative data is
great to work with.  If you have more stills of this event...
please post.

It's not a matter of being skeptical of a hoax...it's a matter of
gaining a clearer picture of what is being seen.

cheers,
Bryan Butcher
_________________
- - - -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dreamsenses: The Home of Being! - http://www.raccoon.com/~bryan
The Des Moines Astronomical Society - http://www.sciowa.org/~dmas
The Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group - http://www.mufor.org/ares
_________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 8

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:34:36 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:15:29 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:57:31 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

<snip>

> Please supply tecnical info on camera.  Brand, model
> number, etc., as well as film brand and type.  This info
> should ALWAYS accompany any purported UFO photograph.

> Bob

Bob...

Just took this from "UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 6"...first
article...

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/feb/m08-026.shtml

Quoting Alex Cavallari, New York state director of Skywatch
International:

   "This time it was much bigger and clearer," he added.
   "But the size or diameter of a cigarette (1/4 inch)
   (0.5 centimeters--J.T.) at arm's length.  I went inside
   and got my camera," a Minolta 35mm with 12X maximum
   zoom.

In fact, the entire encounter with the orb and the black
helicopter is described in detail. I suggest everyone interested
in this thread read it in full.

Alex...I again urge you to post the additional images of the
orb.

cheers,
Bryan Butcher
_________________
- - - -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dreamsenses: The Home of Being! - http://www.raccoon.com/~bryan
The Des Moines Astronomical Society - http://www.sciowa.org/~dmas
The Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group - http://www.mufor.org/ares
_________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 8

                    Re: Photo Of UFO Over Vancouver 1992?

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:48:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:29:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Photo Of UFO Over Vancouver 1992?

>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 12:59:30 -0800
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: boliver@Direct.CA (Bill Oliver)
>Subject: Photo Of UFO Over Vancouver 1992?

>List,

>UFO*BC was sent this picture recently. Indeed it appears to be
>Vancouver for certain. I believe I even have the area pinned down
>however further details were not given us besides the date it was
>taken and that the pic was part of a complete roll taken that
>day.

>We would like to talk to the people involved.

>Can anybody help us out?

>Bill Oliver
>UFO*BC


Bill,

Well for sure this one is NOT lens flare.

Unfortunately, without access to the original print or neg
it is impossible to tell just WHAT it is.  It could be a
bird.  Or it could be a UFO. Or it could be a hoax.

No way to know from just the photo.

Bob









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 8

                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:44:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:28:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?

>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:47:44 +1030
>From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Hi Joe!!

>Thanks for getting this back on track.

>Attached is a gif. of an "unknown" that I documented back in May.

>I was not aware of any "communication" between self and said
>"unknown/s," but, I DID ask it/them to show themselves again!!!!

>It/they  kindly manifested  on three consecutive evenings, and I
>don't think that THIS was a lens flare.

>Best wishes.

>JJ


Absolutely right JJ, that is not lens flare.

Is this a still frame from a video camera?  If not,
just what sort of camera was used?

Bob









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 8

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:38:18 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 21:31:25 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>>From: werd@interlog.com
>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:57:24 -0500 (EST)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>>Alex,

>>Why did you not center the "sphere" in your frame area instead
>>of having it off to the other side of the frame from the sun?
>>(Exactly where one would expect a lens flare).
>>As a professional photographer I would like to state categorically
>>that this is a lens flare. Sorry I can only speak to what I see, not
>>any other references to what you saw before or after taking the picture.

>>Drew Williamson


>HI DREW,

>The image has the orb in that location because as it was moving ,
>while it was doing its "thing" I  was trying to capture it on
>film , I took many pics during this event and never saw any lens
>flare through my camera . It is not like the orb posed or stood
>still for me to film it, as soon as I saw it in the camera I took
>pics, Where it ended up it ended up. I already said that I agree
>it looks like lens flare but I know it was not. There is probably
>no way I could prove this even if I had 100 other witnesses ,

(And therein lies the problem with photographic evidence!)

>it appears that as long as the so called "experts" voice there
>opinions that is the final word, well I think the "experts"
>should start to understand that it is possible for them to make
>an incorrect assesment of something.

(Just as it is for eyewitnesses to make mistakes)

>If I saw any lens flare
>through the camera during this I would say so, I do not want
>false or misleading info to be presented to the ufo community.
>The orb was very much the color in the pic and I guess it is
>possible for lens flare and the orb to be close in colors.

>I am not new to the ufo field and have many years of experience
>and I do not put out what I believe are false reports or
>pictures.

I don't think it's necessary to raise the issue of hoaxing, it's
just that we SHOULD look at more prosaic answers before we resort
to more paranormal ones. All possible earthly explainations need
to be tested FIRST.

>Is it possible for any of the film "experts" to plot the lens in
>the camera to know if the camera is capable of producing lens
>flare at that part of the lens? Is it impossible to get lens
>flare in the middle / center of a image? I do have other pics of
>this ORB and I might consider releasing them if I can be
>convinced that this is lens flare but so far no one in my opinion
>has done that.

The answer is yes to both questions. You may have seen the
multiple "UFOs" over the Whitehouse taken in 1952. These lights
were plotted to the street lights that are also shown in the
photo. Perhaps you could include the make of the camera and
especially the lens make (aperture, focal length etc.). The fact
that the human eye is also has a lens could explain why you saw
this with the naked eye as well.

You have to understand that the photo is "suspect" because the
sun is obviously just out of the frame. It could also be a result
of what is called a sun dog or similar phenomenon, where the
light is refracted off very minute ice crystals in the
atmosphere. The fact that it was transitory could be because of
the clouds passing in front of the sun, acting like a large
blind, allowing the sun dog to appear and disappear. I would be
interested to know what the colour of the orb appeared to be to
the naked eye.

>I have seen many orb pics, some were of orbs of different colors
>some white and most if not all were called lens flare by the
>"experts" at some point in time. So I guess as long as a orb is
>the color and in a possible posiotin to be considered lens flare,
>thats what the "experts" will call it, even if that is
>incorrect.

There have been many people who have taken orb pictures under
different circumstances than yours. It would take too long to go
into them here, however they were obviously a result of lens
flare. Some said they couldn't see them but were able to
photograph them.

>I thank all the people who have emailed with there opinions and
>am not in the least bit bothered by the negative ones, I think
>this is what should be.

It is unfortunate that you use the term "negative" as this leads
one to suspect that you are not open to a more prosaic answer
should it exist. This phenomenon needs more objectivity and less
belief otherwise we run the risk of starting a new religion.
(Maybe it already is! <G>)

>So, I do no know what else I can say about the event except I
>would be glad to take a lie detector test / voice stress analysis
>etc to help support what I claimed happened.

I won't raise the issue of the credibility of these tests. <g>

Drew Williamson









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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker]
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:04:08 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 21:50:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?

> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:54:38 +1030
> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: "UFO SPHERE/ORB" over BROOKLYN

> Last night I received, from Skywatch International, a long
> account of a "sighting" over Brooklyn, and was interested to note
> that the "witness" had attempted some form of mental
> communication with the object in question.

> Has anyone else ever found that, when watching "unknowns," it is
> possible to establish some form of telepathic rapport?


Hi, I have a short story to contribute to "ESP and Aliens".

1978 was a good year in Missouri for UFOs.  Shortly after the
episode I am about to report, I became involved in investigating
a flap area approximately 60 miles north of St. Louis, called
Elsberry. Prior to this May incident I was not involved in
UFOlogy, and had not read any books on the subject etc.

May 31, 1978 my husband and I were at the Lake of the Ozarks,
just outside of Camdenton at his parents home.  We were sitting
at the boat dock, as we often did, watching the stars, enjoying
the spring evening.

Over the lake and quite far away we both noticed a tiny bluish
light coming our way.  In 1978 air traffic was minimal in that
area and large commercial planes at that altitude unheard of.  AS
we watched it I began to feel uneasy. AS it grew in size so did
my apprehension.  I wanted to run (FROM WHAT?).  I remember it
becoming about the size of Venus.

Suddenly we connectd and I screamed, "They saw me."  I bolted, my
husband caught me, turned me around, I yelled, "Go away go away
now!" With that it turned left and was gone.  My  (normally)
skeptical husband looked at me and said,  "What did you do that
for?  Why did you make it leave?"  To this day he is convinced I
made it leave.  But what was it?

And this is just another story added to the millions.

BB








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:40:48 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 22:14:47 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

HI LIST,

I will try to answer everyone�s questions in this one email, if I
miss anyone please tell me and I will get back to you. I am not
tying to avoid any questions you have  but I have received over
300 email about this pic and it is a slow process to answer all
of them, so please be patient and I will get to them.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The camera is a Minolta Freedom Zoom 90C

This is a partial list of its technical details from the small
book it comes with:

Type: 35 mm auto focus lens-shutter camera

Lens :38-90 mm f / 3.5-7.7 power zoom lens

Auto focus System : 3-beam infrared type with cancelable focus
hold; range: 0.75m / 2.5 ft.(wide),0.9m / 3.0 ft (tele) to
infinity

Zoom Control: Sensor-activated Auto Standby Zoom (ASZ) sets a
zoom position based on subject distance; zoom lever for manual
override.

Metering system: External, two-segment silicon photocell for
separate illuminance readings of center and background picture
areas.

Auto exposure: Programmed auto exposure; range (ISO); EV 6 TO EV
17 (1/4 SEC AT F / 3.5 TO 1/350 SEC AT F/19 AT 38 MM SETTINGS, EV
8 TO EV 17 (1/4 SEC AT F /7.7 TO 1/250 SEC F / 22) AT 90 MM
SETTING

Film speed: Automatic setting for DX -coded ISO 25 - 3200

Viewfinder: Real-image type with focus frame, close-framing
guides: magnification: 0.45X at 38 mm, 0.95X at 90 mm: image area
85% coverage: eyepiece LED lamps show focus and flash status.

Film transport: Automatic threading, auto advance to first frame,
auto winding, auto rewind and auto rewind stop: rewind button for
manual start of rewind.

Power: 6V Lithium battery (2CR5)


The camera is about 5 years old and has seen a  lot of action, it
is not new, ran a minimum of 120 rolls of film through it, it has
never been serviced or cleaned other then the lens gets cleaned
and the case gets wiped down. I know I ran 120 rolls of film
minimum because I still have 19 dead batteries lying about.I get
about 7 rolls to a battery on the average.

The film I was using was KODAK , 36 exp ,Color, Gold lll DXn,
400 ASA

Yes , I agree it is possible that what I saw and what I captured
on film are 2 different things but I do believe what I captured
in the pic was what I saw with my eyes.

Yes, I agree it is possible for the ORB I saw and the so called
"lens flare" to look very similar. The colors, size etc make me
believe the image in the pic is the ORB and not lens flare.

Yes, I agree it is possible for me to have captured lens flare
but, I did not see any in the camera during the event.

If there are many reports and pictures of  "unknown" objects
which appear to be lens flare by the "experts" is there any way
to determine from the camera, if it was lens flare? Like a double
blind scientific experiment? Today is Sunday and its a nice day
outside , same time and weather condition so I am going to go and
take a roll of pics from as close to the same position as last
time and I will see if I get any lens flare in any pics which is
unseen by my eyes.

I have access to a tv production studio, so I gave the pic to a
friend I do some tv production with along with a few other
assorted ORB pics, the opinion was that all of the pics could be
lens flare but that there is no way to be 100% sure. Now, I can
easily understand that, so what is need from the film/camera
experts is a guaranteed test of the camera to see if something in
a pic is lens flare, that is what the "experts " should design,
in my view that is. Or possibly a camera which can not produce
lens flare. I think that would put an end to this lens flare/
orb controversy and that would be a great benefit to the ufo
community and it might make the person who designs it rich.

I can not be 100% sure if the Orb was moving or standing still
when I took the pics. I think it was in motion and appearing to
stop.

Yes, I can send the pic in a higher resolution, I have a flatbed
scanner and Adobe Photoshop so if it can be done in it I can do
it.

I think I covered all the questions on the Orb, so I will try to
get to the possible mental "communication".

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To start with I believe I  have seen and interacted with some
ET'S, I have ongoing UFO/ET appearing events since my childhood.
I believe thought is electrical activity and we are like radio
transmitters and receivers, we send and receive electrical
signals, thought is electrical. I also believe there are
lifeforms which do the same and that it is possible for
technology to communicate with the brain/mind of man, meaning ,a
machine can transmit electrical signals through the atmosphere
which can be perceived and understood as intelligent info by man
and reverse. I also believe in biological and cellular telepathic
communications, it too is a form of though so it is also
electrical signal transmission and reception. I do believe this
is a provable statement, there have been experiments with plants
and animals as well as people and to me the results help support
"telepathic" communications. There have been experiments with
modulated radio frequency transmitters sending electrical radio
waves out from an antenna aimed towards a person and the person
has perceived the modulations in the signal.

I have interviewed many people who claim to be in mental contact
with "unknowns", I do believe some are in contact on a mental
electrical level. I believe this is no secret and it is happening
on a one to one personal level because that is the only way it
will be accepted. Many of these people have pics of "unknown"
aircraft, et, unknown marks on there body, implants and some have
"samples" of evidence supposedly of unknown origin. Some of them
get physical/mental signs of when the "unknown" lifeform/ufo is
about to appear/communicate with them.

I perceived what I though was a loud noise, static in my left ear
right during this event. I believe this was the "signal" so to
speak. I always tell people to think to "them" when we are ufo
hunting. I have gone ufo hunting with others in this field and at
times I have been the only one to get "unknown" pics. There is a
phenomenon called EVP, Electronic Voice Phenomenon, it is
supposedly a form of communication with the dead/spirits. You
"think" a question and try to record an answer to it from the "
BACKGROUND NOISE " present. I have been experimenting in this
area for about 10 years now and all I can say is you can
communicate with unknown "voice" through it. I teach how to do it
in very small private sessions. The skeptics cannot get "voices"
during there experiments, the ones who believe sooner or later
get a "voice" and can have a ongoing communication. Some times it
takes a few months of experimenting to make an initial contact
with a "voice". I also believe ET can be found and contacted
using this technology but with different detectors.

I believe communications/"voices" can be found in many different
forms of "noise" such as electromagnetic noise found in the
electromagnetic spectrum, radio frequency noise, optical noise,
white noise, electron noise , chemical electrical noise and
others. I have experimented with all of those forms of noise and
I believe I have found voices in all of them.

If anyone is interested in EVP it has been  well documented for
the past 50 years or so, I also have a short article on how to
perform the simplest of EVP experiments and would be happy to
send it to anyone who is interested. All that is required is a
simple audio tape recorder set up, determination, time, belief
and a very open mind.


Thanks
ALEX CAVALLARI
XELAUFO@AOL.COM








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   Feb > Feb 8

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:13:54 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 22:32:10 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:52:19 -1000

<snip>

>I'm not sure of the significance of this thread.  If you say you
>saw an anomaly and photographed it, then you did as far as I am
>concerned. I think you can be taken at your word. Even so, if it
>is not lens flare, it is not identifiable as anything either
>terrestrial or extraterrestrial so what is the point? Everyone
>agrees that there are unidentifiable lights in the sky, and the
>fact that you and millions of other people have seen and
>photographed them is interesting.

>But the discussion has digressed to the point where people are
>suggesting that UFOs intentionally spoof camera optics to mimic a
>natural camera phenomenon while appearing as something else to a
>live observer. Is it that two sets of photons are on the same
>path but one set enters only the camera and one set enters only
>the observer's eye?  As my english professor used to state so
>eloquently:  "How do it know?"

>Has it come to the point when everything anyone sees is an ET
>craft?  And if it happens to look exactly like an airplane or a
>falling star, or a black helicopter or a lens flare, does that
>merely mean that the ETs have nothing better to do than defy the
>known laws of physics for the purpose of creating optical
>illusions on the off-chance that a UFO investigator with a camera
>might be looking up?????

>Apparently so.

<snip>

Tom,

Obviously if the object looks and behaves like some well known
object, it doesn't interest either a layman or ufologist as being
anything abnormal.

If an object that looks like a certain kind of lens flare flits
around the sky as reported by a reliable eye witness, then it's
of great interest to the layman and even to some ufologists!
(Most ufologists have heard of similar reports for so many years
that it may not interest them any more.)

For me, it's worth noting for two reasons: (1) It says something
about how far ahead the UFO-aliens' technology is from anything
we can understand, and (2) it says something about their strategy
or level of ethics in dealing with us, in that they provide a
certain measure of deniability to persons who can't accept its
reality and who don't mind ignoring certain aspects about the
object's description or reported behavior when latching onto that
deniability factor.

 Jim Deardorff










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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 22:42:33 +1030
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 23:13:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?


> From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker]
> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:04:08 -0600
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY

> > Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:54:38 +1030
> > From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: "UFO SPHERE/ORB" over BROOKLYN

> > Last night I received, from Skywatch International, a long
> > account of a "sighting" over Brooklyn, and was interested to note
> > that the "witness" had attempted some form of mental
> > communication with the object in question.

> > Has anyone else ever found that, when watching "unknowns," it is
> > possible to establish some form of telepathic rapport?

> Hi, I have a short story to contribute to "ESP and Aliens".

> 1978 was a good year in Missouri for UFOs.  Shortly after the
> episode I am about to report, I became involved in investigating
> a flap area approximately 60 miles north of St. Louis, called
> Elsberry. Prior to this May incident I was not involved in
> UFOlogy, and had not read any books on the subject etc.

<snip>

Hi there Barbara!

Thank you for that interesting story!

However, I hadn't actually alluded to "ALIENS" or "ESP" in MY
postings.

I only give these events the title of "UNKNOWNS."

Someone once said that,  making an assumption,  makes
an "Ass out of U and ME!"  Are we then, to assume, that these
"unknowns" are of E.T. origin? (E.T. being a term I prefer.)

I also prefer NOT to use the word "ALIEN" as this, surely,
"alienates" whatever it is that I am personally trying NOT to
alienate.

However, it would seem that you did, in some way,  have
"communication" with the object in your story.

Best wishes,

JJ








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   Feb > Feb 9

                   'UFO Desk' Press Release - WBAI FM, NY

From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 01:23:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:32:55 -0500
Subject: 'UFO Desk' Press Release - WBAI FM, NY


Greetings,

I would like to invite all who are interested to check out the
next edition of UFO Desk. Our next guest will be Joseph Trainor
editor of UFO ROUNDUP. Joseph will be interviewed by Scott Carr
editor of Flying Saucer Gazette. Learn what it takes to put
together a world class ufo newsletter.

Air date is 2.16.98, around one am east coast time, if you are
outside of the NY area you can hear UFO Desk via Real Audio.
Please visit UFO Desk online for more information and a link to
deoxy.org, the wonderful site which is net casting UFO Desk, and
other great WBAI programs. UFO Desk, is a Smith and Williams
production, heard only over non-commercial WBAI NY.







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   Feb > Feb 9

                          Re: Books - 'The Threat'

From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:55:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 00:31:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Books - 'The Threat'

I was catching up on some past messages, and noticed Dennis Stacy
taking my name in vain.

> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:33:07 -0600 (CST)
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Books [was: 'The Threat'...]

> One might begin, for example, with the conclusions Jacobs
> extrapolates from the Roper Report, which lead him to proclaim
> that "millions" of Americans may have been abducted. (See pp
> 124-5 of The Threat.)

> The unfortunate fact of the matter is that no such claim can be
> made in the first place, let alone supported by the resulting
> evidence. This should be self-evident by a simple reading of the
> poll questions and the responses to same.

> In other words, why not simply ask: do you think you have ever
> had a close encounter with a UFO, and following that, do you
> think you may have been taken aboard same?

> Instead, Hopkins and Jacobs ask a series of questions -- none of
> which has to do with a distantly perceived ufo -- and then
> conclude that anyone positively responding to a certain number of
> indicators inequivocably(sp?) indicates an abduction by alien
> extraterrestrial beings -- that is, respond yea to, say, six out
> of ten questions, and you therefore corroborate our theory and
> assumptions of what abductions are all about, no ifs, ands or
> buts. You've been abducted by literal ETs, no other theorists
> need apply.

> All very neat, if extremely messy. But let's suppose you wanted
> to take an equally oblique approach in determining what numbers
> of Americans are heavy drinkers. The direct approach would be to
> ask such questions as a) do you drink more than such and such a
> day, b) starting at what time of day, and so on.

> The Jacobs/Hopkins approach, however, is to ask whether you might
> not have smelled beer on one occasion, sipped champagne on
> another, imbibed Wild Turkey on a third, downed a scotch on a
> fourth -- and thereby conclude that one is both an alcoholic and
> abductee.

> To put it bluntly and parsimoniously: *nothing* in the Roper
> Report supports Jacobs's latest contention -- let alone his
> cataclysmic and catastrophic warnings that we are now hovering on
> the edge of alien absorption.

> For all the money spent on it, the Roper Report means nothing
> whatsoever.

> Over to Greg and the rest of the list,

> Dennis


You can ask direct questions about drinking, because people know
whether they've had a drink or not. But you can't ask with equal
confidence about abductions, because (assuming that abductions
take place at all) people don't always remember being abducted.
They're apt, instead, to remember things like lights in their
rooms, beings by their beds, and missing time.

The mail Budd Hopkins gets bears this out. You don't find many,
if any, people writing to say "Yes! Those beings you write about
took me, too!" Instead, they say "All my life I'd had experiences
I couldn't understand. I've seen lights in my room (etc.). I read
one of your books, and thought, maybe this is the explanation.
I'm hoping you can tell me whether or not it is."

It's against this background that the Roper Poll was conducted.
The reasoning Budd and Dave Jacobs used was more or less this:
Since nearly all abductees remember having a number of
experiences, like lights in their rooms, we should ask how many
people have had these experiences. That might give us a rough
notion of how many people have been abducted."

There's a logical fallacy if you take this absolutly literally.
Just because nearly all abductees have had these experiences, you
can't conclude that nearly all people who say they've had these
experiences have been abducted.

Still, we're familiar with this sort of inductive reasoning in
other contexts. If you come home and find your house has been
turned upside down, and your valuables are missing, you conclude
you've been burglarized. Doctors look for symptoms, and reason
backwards from the symptoms to the dis ease. Assuming, again,
that abductions are real, we don't know for sure that all the
indicators Budd and Dave asked about in the Roper Poll mean for
sure that people have been abducted. But they might, on the
analogy with being burglarized.

In any case, there's nothing more to go on. If you believe in
abductions and you want to know how many people might have been
abducted, you can't ask directly, because people won't remember.
But you can ask about memories that are nearly universal among
abductees, and move on -- as best you can -- from there.

Greg Sandow









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   Feb > Feb 9

                        Menwith Hill, United Kingdom?

From: "Larry Hatch" <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:14:19 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:53:59 -0500
Subject: Menwith Hill, United Kingdom?


Menwith Hill (somewhere in Britain) is another of those secret
military bases that everyone knows about.

But,  I cannot find it in my references!

I need longitude/latitude coordinates to enter a sighting in the
*U* UFO Database.

Can anyone tell me how to locate Menwith Hill with some
reasonable degree of accuracy?

Thank You all in advance

- Larry Hatch
<larryhat@jps.net>







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:39:24 -1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:20:54 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY



> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> Date: Sunday, February 8, 1998 17:32 PM

> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:13:54 -0800 (PST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> >From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> >Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:52:19 -1000

> <snip>

> >I'm not sure of the significance of this thread.  If you say you
> >saw an anomaly and photographed it, then you did as far as I am
> >concerned. I think you can be taken at your word. Even so, if it
> >is not lens flare, it is not identifiable as anything either
> >terrestrial or extraterrestrial so what is the point? Everyone
> >agrees that there are unidentifiable lights in the sky, and the
> >fact that you and millions of other people have seen and
> >photographed them is interesting.

> >But the discussion has digressed to the point where people are
> >suggesting that UFOs intentionally spoof camera optics to mimic a
> >natural camera phenomenon while appearing as something else to a
> >live observer. Is it that two sets of photons are on the same
> >path but one set enters only the camera and one set enters only
> >the observer's eye?  As my english professor used to state so
> >eloquently:  "How do it know?"

> >Has it come to the point when everything anyone sees is an ET
> >craft?  And if it happens to look exactly like an airplane or a
> >falling star, or a black helicopter or a lens flare, does that
> >merely mean that the ETs have nothing better to do than defy the
> >known laws of physics for the purpose of creating optical
> >illusions on the off-chance that a UFO investigator with a camera
> >might be looking up?????

> >Apparently so.

> <snip>

> Tom,

> Obviously if the object looks and behaves like some well known
> object, it doesn't interest either a layman or ufologist as being
> anything abnormal.

> If an object that looks like a certain kind of lens flare flits
> around the sky as reported by a reliable eye witness, then it's
> of great interest to the layman and even to some ufologists!
> (Most ufologists have heard of similar reports for so many years
> that it may not interest them any more.)

<snip>

Aloha Jim...

>For me, it's worth noting for two reasons: (1) It says something
>about how far ahead the UFO-aliens' technology is from anything
>we can understand,

If you see a perfectly recognizable terrestrial aircraft, the
chances are that you cannot tell it's altitude within 1,000 feet
or it's speed within 50% of actual groundspeed.  Nor can you tell
the weight or engine size of a car approaching you on the road.
Without knowing whether an object even exists; what an object is;
a known distance from the object or a quantifiable performance
spectrum of an unknown, you cannot tell anything at all. The only
thing a still picture of what appears to be a lens flare tells
you is that you cannot tell anything at all about it.  You cannot
even tell whether or not it is actually a lens flare.

>and (2) it says something about their strategy
>or level of ethics in dealing with us, in that they provide a
>certain measure of deniability to persons who can't accept its
>reality and who don't mind ignoring certain aspects about the
>object's description or reported behavior when latching onto that
>deniability factor.

You do not even know what the picture represents, Jim.  What does
a picture of a lens flare tell you about 'their strategy or level
of ethics..........' ?  And since you cannot know what it is a
picture of, since no one does, it cannot tell you anything.

I have spoken with you before, and I respect your opinion and
intelligence, but the most anyone can say about a picture of an
unidentified object is that it is a picture of an unidentified
object, and that is not EVIDENCE of anything.

Tom Burnett








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                                UFO Desk info

From: "Scott Carr"<Scott_Carr@MCKINSEY.COM>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:53:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:40:30 -0500
Subject: UFO Desk info


>From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
>Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 01:23:27 -0800
>Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:32:55 -0500
>Subject: 'UFO Desk' Press Release - WBAI FM, NY

>Greetings,

>I would like to invite all who are interested to check out the
>next edition of UFO Desk. Our next guest will be Joseph Trainor
>editor of UFO ROUNDUP. Joseph will be interviewed by Scott Carr
>editor of Flying Saucer Gazette. Learn what it takes to put
>together a world class ufo newsletter.

>Air date is 2.16.98, around one am east coast time, if you are
>outside of the NY area you can hear UFO Desk via Real Audio.
>Please visit UFO Desk online for more information and a link to
>deoxy.org, the wonderful site which is net casting UFO Desk, and
>other great WBAI programs. UFO Desk, is a Smith and Williams
>production, heard only over non-commercial WBAI NY.

"UFO Desk" can be found alternate Sunday nights (early Monday morning) on
99.5 FM WBAI New York.

Or, "UFO Desk can be heard the world over, via Real Audio on the Internet
by visiting Dioxy.org at:
http://deoxy.org/wbai/hearwbai.htm

"UFO Desk" is:
Paul Williams, Executive Producer paulw@escape.com
Paul Williams "UFO Desk" Home Page can be found at:
http://www.escape.com/~paulw/ufodesk.html

Scott Carr: Producer, sardonica@erols.com
Scott Carr's online magazine, The Flying Saucer Gazette can be found at:
http://www.erols.com/sardonica

Joseph Trainor: Producer of "UFO ROUNDUP" segment of "UFO Desk",
Masinaigan@aol.com
UFO ROUNDUP: http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/

Scheduled Guests:

GUEST 2.16.98
Mr. Joseph Trainor, the driving force behind UFO ROUNDUP
http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/

GUEST 3.2.98
Mr. John Greenwald, creator of the THE BLACK VAULT
http://www.blackvault.com/



-Scott Carr
Editor, The Flying Saucer Gazette
http://www.erols.com/sardonica
sardonica@erols.com










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                      Re: Menwith Hill, United Kingdom?

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:46:22 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:50:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Menwith Hill, United Kingdom?


>From: "Larry Hatch" <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: "UPDATES TORONTO LIST" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Menwith Hill, Britain
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:14:19 -0800

>Menwith Hill (somewhere in Britain) is another of those secret
>military bases that everyone knows about.

>But,  I cannot find it in my references!

>I need longitude/latitude coordinates to enter a sighting in the
>*U* UFO Database.

>Can anyone tell me how to locate Menwith Hill with some
>reasonable degree of accuracy?


Larry,

It's in an area within the Yorkshire Dales. 560 acres of moorland,
stretching for 5 1/2 miles. Run by the NSA, operated by Americans
only.


            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
             \______________________________________/








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                         Re: Communication with UFOs

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:19:05 +1030
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:35:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs

>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:21:11 +0000
>Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:15:55 -0500
>Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?

>> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:01:08 +1030
>> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> Subject: "ORBARAMA"

>> Dear Updates.

>> In  my earlier post which included a gif. file of an "event"
>> that I documented last May, I neglected to include details
>> of the camera that was used.

>> For your information:

>> PANASONIC "OmniMovie" VHS format.
>> PV-610-K
>> 8:1 Power Zoom

>> At the time of this "event" I was also using a X 5.5 Tokina
>> converter

>> I then had "stills" taken off the VHS tape..

>> Sorry about the oversight.

>> Best wishes,

>> JJ

>JJ...

>Was this frame the clearest image obtained from the video?  There

>is obvious camera motion (blur) and restricts analysis greatly.
>As I pointed out to Alex in a previous post...comparative data is

>great to work with.  If you have more stills of this event...
>please post.

>It's not a matter of being skeptical of a hoax...it's a matter of

>gaining a clearer picture of what is being seen.

>cheers,
>Bryan Butcher
>************

Hello Bryan.

Regarding the clearest  image from the video, I only obtained
two frames, and those were purely to show the two boats in the
foreground.

I was focused on the distant objects, which, at my height above
water's surface would have been  5.1 Nautical Miles, or 5.9
Statute Miles from my vantage point.  They appeared at the same
time on three consecutive evenings.

On 26th May  I obtained a different camera, which I have been
using ever since, and which gives better focus and general
clarity.

Maybe, next May, they will reappear, and give me further
opportunity to film them.

I will let you know if they decide to visit again.   I HAVE
asked them.  :-)

Best wishes.

JJ

Ev'ry breath you take,
Ev'ry move you make,
Ev'ry bond you break
Ev'ry step you take,
I'LL BE WATCHING YOU!!!!

(STING 1983)







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:19:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:42:15 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:58:06 +0000
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: u9501676@bournemouth.ac.uk (Simon Cleggett)
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY

>Dear All,

>Many thanks for the the info thus far. I am currently reading for
>a B.sc(Hons) in prehistoric Archaeology in Bournemouth, U.k.I am
>fascinated by the concept of extraterrestrial life and can't wait
>for the day when archaeologists will be called upon to evaluate .
>evidence of stellar civilizations!

<snip>

>Why are archaeologists excluded from the scientific study of
>ufology?

WHAT?   Archeologists are not excluded from SSUFOS (scientific
study of UFOs.)   HOWever, they must be aware that this is mostly
NOT archeology... UFO events have happened within the last
50 years or within the recorded history of mankind.   The oldest
events "live" only as written records.   HOWEVER... archeologist
might look for evidence of old contact, as you sugges.
(Also  consider Gerald Hawkins and the Stonehenge analysis.)

>I am interested in the role of sightings in antiquity and whether
>prehistoric man was influenced temporaly/spiritually by the
>phenomenon. Cave art and contemporary carvings seem to be devoid
>of any depictions of such encounters.

>I would discount the ramblings of Von Danekin!!(Chariots of the
>Gods)etc.

What you ahve rejected is, of course, precisely the type of
evidence one muight search for.   However, the controversy
over the meanings of these scraps of evidence will probably
relegate them to the "undecidable" pile and hence they will
probably play only a minor role in ufology , which primarily
(not totally) the study of relatively recent events.

>I would be interested to hear from any serious ufo researchers
>that agree with the fundamental role that archaeologists could
>have to play in this arena.

Your report on recent sightings is the type of research
archeologists can do...and anyone else.    Just try to be
sufficiently critical not to get snowed by the garbage that
floats around in this field of research.

>Keep up the good work!

Thanks, you too,.







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:52:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:32:22 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:40:48 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>HI LIST,

>I will try to answer everyone=EDs questions in this one email, if I
>miss anyone please tell me and I will get back to you. I am not
>tying to avoid any questions you have  but I have received over
>300 email about this pic and it is a slow process to answer all
>of them, so please be patient and I will get to them.


>The camera is a Minolta Freedom Zoom 90C

>This is a partial list of its technical details from the small
>book it comes with:

>Type: 35 mm auto focus lens-shutter camera

>Lens :38-90 mm f / 3.5-7.7 power zoom lens

>Auto focus System : 3-beam infrared type with cancelable focus
>hold; range: 0.75m / 2.5 ft.(wide),0.9m / 3.0 ft (tele) to
>infinity

<snipped>

OK.  Thanks Alex.

What you have here is your garden variety point-n-shoot camera.

You COULD NOT see lens flare with this camera because when you
look into the eyepiece you are NOT looking through the taking
lens, but through a separate viewfinder which is only very
approximately accurate in perspective and framing.

Because the camera is fully automatic, when you load it with 400
speed film, it will set a fast shutter speed and very small lens
aperture when pointed at the sky.  This small aperture is the
ideal situation to capture and accentuate lens flare.

Your idea of doing tests is a good one.  Try shooting some photos
at the same time of day in similar weather and point the camera
in the same direction.  The sun will be in a slightly different
position due to seasonal change, but you can compensate for this
by shifting your angle slightly north.  Shoot a whole roll with
the sun just outside your frame.  You will most likely get a
bunch of lens flare photos.  If the front of the lens is dirty or
scratched this will make it even more likely.

Scanning the image at higher resolution won't accomplish
anything.
I would need to see prints or the original negatives to determine
anything.

Do your sky photo tests first, though.  I'm pretty sure that you
will convince yourself that the photos only show lens flare.

BTW, I'm sorry if I offended you.  I was being dismissive of your
photo, not your story.  I've seen one of the bloody things
myself, so I know that UFOs exist.  Unfortunately we are not
going to prove it with photos.

Bob









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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:43:08 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:58:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?

> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:47:44 +1030
> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

<snip>

> Hi Joe!!

> Thanks for getting this back on track.

> Attached is a gif. of an "unknown" that I documented back in May.

> I was not aware of any "communication" between self and said
> "unknown/s," but, I DID ask it/them to show themselves again!!!!

> It/they  kindly manifested  on three consecutive evenings, and I
> don't think that THIS was a lens flare.

> Best wishes.

> JJ


Hi JJ,

Do you know any of the people in the two sailboats?  Did they or
any others also see the two bright objects in your gif video
frame while you were videotaping them?  How do the two bright
objects look like when the second sailboat passed in front of
them a moment later?  Were the two bright objects in front or
behind the sailboats?

Since the two bright objects seem to be at the horizon (at first
glance they look like distant clouds or oceanliners shining in
bright sunshine), why are they so sharply defined while the
sailboats, waves and horizon are not?  Are the red colour borders
at the bottom of the two bright objects present when you
videotape other bright objects or do you think they are part of
the objects themselves?  Did you also see these red borders with
your eyes only?

Why do you feel that the object(s) you saw on three consecutive
nights were the same as these daytime bright objects?  Did they
look any different?  Did they resemble the red lights you saw
over Lake Ontario near Oakville last summer?

Thanks for sharing information about your UFO sightings with us.

Nick










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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:30:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:12:52 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:34:36 +0000
>From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:57:31 -0500
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

><snip>

>> Please supply tecnical info on camera.  Brand, model
>> number, etc., as well as film brand and type.  This info
>> should ALWAYS accompany any purported UFO photograph.

>> Bob

>Bob...

>Just took this from "UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 6"...first
>article...

>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/feb/m08-026.shtml

>Quoting Alex Cavallari, New York state director of Skywatch
>International:

>   "This time it was much bigger and clearer," he added.
>   "But the size or diameter of a cigarette (1/4 inch)
>   (0.5 centimeters--J.T.) at arm's length.  I went inside
>   and got my camera," a Minolta 35mm with 12X maximum
>   zoom.

>In fact, the entire encounter with the orb and the black
>helicopter is described in detail. I suggest everyone interested
>in this thread read it in full.

>Alex...I again urge you to post the additional images of the
>orb.

>cheers,
>Bryan Butcher

Thanks Bryan,

Well, that tells us a LOT <G>!  Minolta only makes dozens of
cameras, and how many 12X zooms they have made I do not know.

However, this does sound like what we refer to in the camera
business as a point-n-shoot.  A fully automatic camera, and
not an SLR with through the lens viewing.  Alex's comment about
not seeing lens flare becomes important if this is the sort
of camera used, because he COULD not see lens flare.  On this
sort of a camera you are not looking through the taking lens
when you look into the eyepiece.  You are looking through a
separate optical viewfinder which only shows an approximation
of what the lens is seeing.  You may very well not see any
sign of flare in the viewfinder and have a very high flare
situation.

In fact pointing one of these cameras toward the sky is always
an invitation to flare.

Once I have a model number on the Minolta, I will talk to my
friends in the technical dept at Minolta and determine what sort
of diaphragm the camera in question has.

Bob









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                         Cold Fusion Researcher Dead

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:42:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:14:22 -0500
Subject: Cold Fusion Researcher Dead

I hesitated to forward this after the erroneous report of Paul
Brown's demise; however, this source is unimpeachable (unlike
Clinton <g>).

BTW, IE Mag is an excellent free energy magazine.

        <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Forwarded from listserver vortex-l@eskimo.com:
[reformatted for UpDates]

Vortexians:

One of the big names in cold fusion in the early days was Dr.
Kevin L. Wolf at Texas A&M -- he got tritium and neutrons then
and spoke of them and published widely. I have just learned that
Dr. Wolf died recently -- I was reading the ACS Division of
Nuclear Chemistry and Technology newsletter (Fall, 1997) about a
symposium in "memory" of him. I then called Prof. Bockris, who
confirmed that Wolf had died suddenly -- he did not know of what
cause, I'm not sure the Texas papers mentioned it.
Wolf was about age 51.

[snipping technical references]

Gene

Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief
Infinite Energy Magazine
Cold Fusion Technology, Inc.
PO Box 2816
Concord, NH 03302

        Phone: 603-228-4516
        Fax:   603-224-5975
        editor@infinite-energy.com

                      http://www.infinite-energy.com










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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:25:28 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:55:17 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:39:24 -1000

>> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>> Date: Sunday, February 8, 1998 17:32 PM

>> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:13:54 -0800 (PST)
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>> Tom,

>> Obviously if the object looks and behaves like some well known
>> object, it doesn't interest either a layman or ufologist as being
>> anything abnormal.

>> If an object that looks like a certain kind of lens flare flits
>> around the sky as reported by a reliable eye witness, then it's
>> of great interest to the layman and even to some ufologists!
>> (Most ufologists have heard of similar reports for so many years
>> that it may not interest them any more.)...

>>For me, it's worth noting for two reasons: (1) It says something
>>about how far ahead the UFO-aliens' technology is from anything
>>we can understand,

>Aloha Jim...


>If you see a perfectly recognizable terrestrial aircraft, the
>chances are that you cannot tell it's altitude within 1,000 feet
>or it's speed within 50% of actual groundspeed.  Nor can you tell
>the weight or engine size of a car approaching you on the road.
>Without knowing whether an object even exists; what an object is;
>a known distance from the object or a quantifiable performance
>spectrum of an unknown, you cannot tell anything at all. The only
>thing a still picture of what appears to be a lens flare tells
>you is that you cannot tell anything at all about it.  You cannot
>even tell whether or not it is actually a lens flare.

Tom,

As you should know, one doesn't divorce a photograph from the
testimony of the eye-witness to the event who took the
photograph.

>>and (2) it says something about their strategy
>>or level of ethics in dealing with us, in that they provide a
>>certain measure of deniability to persons who can't accept its
>>reality and who don't mind ignoring certain aspects about the
>>object's description or reported behavior when latching onto that
>>deniability factor.

>You do not even know what the picture represents, Jim.  What does
>a picture of a lens flare tell you about 'their strategy or level
>of ethics..........' ?  And since you cannot know what it is a
>picture of, since no one does, it cannot tell you anything.

You should also know that a sensible investigator doesn't divorce
one UFO event from the multitude of other such events that
preceded it.  Many of them provide the skeptic withy a measure of
deniability.  I think this has been gone over too much before to
do so again now. But perhaps you can't realize what a horrible
shock it would be for negative skeptics, who think that the UFO
phenomenon is just something dreamed up by the entertainment
media or by sick minds to have to suddenly find out for sure it's
for real. The UFO entities have given us and the negative
skeptics 50 years to get used to it all.  To me, that says
something about their level of ethics, even if you don't see it.

Jim Deardorff









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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:30:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:48:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?


>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:47:44 +1030
>From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Hi Joe!!

>Thanks for getting this back on track.

>Attached is a gif. of an "unknown" that I documented back in May.

>I was not aware of any "communication" between self and said
>"unknown/s," but, I DID ask it/them to show themselves again!!!!

>It/they kindly manifested on three consecutive evenings, and I
>don't think that THIS was a lens flare.

>Best wishes.

>JJ

It would be very interesting to see a longer sequence here. I
note the blur, which suggests motion, on all objects but the
UFOs. Was the camera tracking the objects?  At what distance were
they? (They look very 'superimposed' -- but please note, I'm not
attacking your veracity, merely making an observation). The
color/albeido values also seem out of kilter on the objects, when
compared with the average values in the frame itself. Can you
provide additional images?

Brian







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                 Re: 'Shoebox Greetings Presents the Grays'

From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:39:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:14:22 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Shoebox Greetings Presents the Grays'

Hi,

I forwarded some of you a post from UFO Updates by Steven Feldman
that really tickled me. John Stanton sent me a great reply I'd
like to share with all of you. First you will find the original
UFO Updates post and below that John's reply to my forward of
Steven's email.

Ack,

Pat
______________________


From: Steven Feldman <AR402004@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 15:48:53 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:30:01 -0500
Subject: 'Shoebox Greetings Presents the Grays'


Ack!  I just browsed the Shoebox Greetings website to try to get
a coffee mug, and found out that Shoebox (a division of Hallmark)
has a line of greeting cards called "The Grays"!  Additionally,
the cartoonist responsible has created a number of "adventures"
on this site -- complete with accompanying color illustrations --
among them, a Christmas story, a Valentine's Day Story, and an
eight-chapter Summer Vacation story.  Here is the opening
sentence from the Christmas story:

 "'Twas the night before Christmas and all through the ship, not a
  creature was stirring except for the occasional abducted cow."

Yep, that was a real knee-slapper.  And here's the copy of one of
the actual cards they have for sale (which, admittedly, *is*
somewhat humorous):

Cover:

           There are worse
         things than turning
          another year older

Inside text:

     You could have three brains
     and have that macarena song
      going through all of them.


Interested?  The URL is:

http://www.shoebox.com/grays/adventures.asp


Steven Feldman ^ ^ ^ SUBSCRIBED TO: Space Music, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^  ________ ^ ^
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_____________________

Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 06:25:43 -0500
From: John Stanton <JohnStanton2@compuserve.com>
Subject: Alien Merchandising...
Sender: John Stanton <JohnStanton2@compuserve.com>
To: Pat Mason <pmason@ee.net>

Hi, Pat!

I just had to check out that greeting card web site you mentioned
- Ack!

Good Grief!

The MIB are heroes, the grays are cuddly... and the propaganda
chugs on with a life of its own. No doubt those stupid cards will
make a fortune.

I don't know which I loathe more - the skeptic, whose credo is
"if it hasn't happened to me, YOU must be crazy!" or the
true-believer, whose motto is "grovel first, ask questions
later." Like the folks on the CompuSnarph UFO forum - volumes of
incredible blither about all the alien "races." The Lion people -
proud, warm, fierce... the lizard folks of course are "sneaky,
cold-blooded, feel no emotions." Then there's those incredibly
evolved beings of light, who traverse galaxies to proselytize,
like so many cosmic Jehovah's Witnesses.  Details about what the
"Zeta Reticulans" prefer to eat. Did you know that the grays were
made from mutated cattle DNA, and they find luminescent likens
positively yummy? Yep. All this info and volumes more were
"channeled" which of course means it is impeccable.

It does smack the old cynical funnybone, though. Maybe we just
don't get it. We could be missing out on the biggest
merchandizing bonanza since an ad agency figured out how to
re-sell Tylenol to a paranoid public. I've been nigh-eve for so
long. After all, I didn't even know that "huffing the weasel"
isn't considered sex in Arkansas.

Remember the Weekly World News cover, with the picture of Bill
Clinton grinning at the alien? They left off the caption: "Is
that a death ray-gun in your pocket, or are you happy to see me?"

Two words, Pat. Latex novelties.

I can see it all now. A spiritual experience for the New Agers, a
new rush for the congenitally jaded. Alien-slut love dolls.
Streaming video of Pam Anderson in 3-way with a gray and an MIB.
An entire line of  "Roswell Marital Aids" - The cutting edge of
reverse-engineered extraterrestrial love-toys. Yep. I think we've
finally got a finger on the throbbing pulse of the American
public.

You call Mulder, I'll call Scully; we'll have our attorneys do
lunch & start the paperwork. Fortune 500, here we come!

Hehehe!

Take care,

John





[[[[[[[[[[[[ UNUSUAL RESEARCH ]]]]]]]]]]]]]

   http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]








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                                 Ed Stewart

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:58:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 22:53:35 -0500
Subject: Ed Stewart

List Members, I have some bad news.

Ed Stewart suffered a stroke yesterday.

The extent of the stroke is unknown.  It appears at this time
that he cannot walk and does not have control of his right side.
Other than that the extent is unclear.  He appears to be in good
humor and lucid.

Get well, soon, Ed!






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             'UFOs & Social Security?' Clinton's Speech 02-09-98

From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Muargia]
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:29:56 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:15:31 -0500
Subject: 'UFOs & Social Security?' Clinton's Speech 02-09-98

Found at :

http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/New/html/19980209-15022.html

Hi All,

Thanks to my lovely, alert wife Desiree Murgia, I am able to share this with
all of you. Today, she was searching through the transcript of President
Clinton's speech on Social Security. Why? I have no idea! Clinton gave the
speech today at Georgetown University. The entire transcript is found at the
address above. I think Mr. President is starting to give us more hints
regarding his own special interests.

-6th paragraph from the top-

[Begin Quote]

"You know, there was a recent poll which said that young people in the
generation of the students here felt it was far more likely that they would
see a UFO than that they would draw Social Security. (Laughter.) And others
may think that it's a long way off, as Mannone said, and the Vice President
said he thought it was a long way off."

[End Quote]

-And 27th paragraph from the top-

[Begin Quote]

"Now, if you look at that plus the present investment patterns of the funds of
which are designed to secure 100 percent security and, therefore, get a
somewhat lower return in return for 100 percent security for the investments,
that's what will cause the problem. So if you look at the presently projected
retirement and the presently projected returns, that will cause the problem.

It's very important you understand this. Once you understand this, you realize
this is not an episode from the X Files, and you're not more likely to see a
UFO if you do certain specific things. On the other hand, if you don't do
anything, one of two things will happen -- either it will go broke and you
won't ever get it; or if we wait too long to fix it, the burden on society of
taking care of our generation's Social Security obligations will lower your
income and lower your ability to take care of your children to a degree most
of us who are your parents think would be horribly wrong and unfair to you and
unfair to the future prospects of the United States."

[End Quote]


Could our dream of Open Congressional Hearings be around the corner? Get ready
Dr. Greer! Am I reading too much into this speech? We just found it curious
that UFOs would come up twice during a speech on social security.

Joe & Desiree Murgia







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:23:31 -1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:29:22 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:25:28 -0800 (PST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> >Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:39:24 -1000

> >> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >> To: updates@globalserve.net
> >> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> >> Date: Sunday, February 8, 1998 17:32 PM

> >> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:13:54 -0800 (PST)
> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

<snip>

> As you should know, one doesn't divorce a photograph from the
> testimony of the eye-witness to the event who took the
> photograph.

Very well, Jim.  The photographer says that he cannot identify
the object as terrestrial or extraterrestrial. Or anything about
it.  It might be a lens flare, a wayward monopole, the
manifestation of a portion of the dark matter in the universe,
or nothing at all.

> >>and (2) it says something about their strategy
> >>or level of ethics in dealing with us, in that they provide a
> >>certain measure of deniability to persons who can't accept its
> >>reality and who don't mind ignoring certain aspects about the
> >>object's description or reported behavior when latching onto that
> >>deniability factor.

Your logic is starting to wear thin, Jim.  What you are saying,
in effect, is that if a skeptic sees a ET craft it will appear to
him as an unidentifiable anomaly.  If a non-skeptic is standing
next to him and sees the same thing, he will see an ET craft.  If
they both take pictures, the skeptic will get a picture of a lens
flare and the non-skeptic will get a picture of an ET craft that
LOOKS like a lens flare in case he decides to show it to another
skeptic.

> To me, that says something about their level of ethics, even if
> you don't see it.

Ok....What does it tell you and who are we talking about?

Aloha Tom







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             Robert O. Dean - Notes From The Prophets Conference

From: prophets@maui.net
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:14:17 -1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:12:31 -0500
Subject: Robert O. Dean - Notes From The Prophets Conference

Robert O. Dean - Notes From The Prophets Conference
Oct 10-11-12, 1997

"Contact Panel" - Opening Statement By Robert O. Dean
(Scroll to bottom for 'Contact' panelist information)

"I have to tell you that I am indeed honored to be on this panel,
to be sitting beside some people that I love and respect and have
admired for many, many years.  This gentleman on my left is a
very special American hero (referring to Dr. Edgar Mitchell).  I
hope all of you get a chance this weekend to shake his hand and
thank him for what he has done.

"We're talking about contact and I understand that's the subject
of this panel this afternoon and the over-all subject of this
weekend, but I don't believe we're going to be dealing with
contact.  We've had contact for several thousands of years.  In
my approach to this and in my research I have concluded that we
are not alone and we have never been alone.  And I have also
concluded that there has been what I call an intimate
relationship between the human race and our friends and our
family from the stars, probably from the beginning of our
history.  The evidence for that is literally overwhelming.

"Instead, I would like for you to look again at the definition of
another word.  I dug in the old Webster's Oxford Dictionary and I
found out the real meaning of the word 'apocalypse'.  Most of us
who have been brought up in the Jewish faith, the Christian faith
or Islam look upon the apocalypse as a rather frightening and
terrible thing:  about the four horsemen riding, bringing famine,
war, pestilence, so on.  These horsemen have been riding now for
about the last ten thousand years.  But, the real meaning of the
word apocalypse, going back to the original Greek, means the
uncovering, the discovery, and the revealing, and that, ladies
and gentlemen, is what we are confronting here today and within
these next few short years.  We are literally being confronted
with the uncovering, and the discovery and the revealing of who
we are; what we are as a species and as a race; how we came to be
here; why we are here; and, God bless 'em, where we are all
going.

That is what we are being confronted with and that is going to
shake the world to its very foundations.  That discovery, that
revelation is upon us.

We are in the middle of this apocalypse, and the next few short
years are going to be literally earth shaking.

"I do not believe that the American people are prepared for this.
I do not believe that the people on this planet are ready for
this, and there are allot of reasons for that.  As an old
infantry soldier I'm always raising hell with my government
because it has not taken the lead in educating us as to what's
happening.  But I don't believe that we can depend on the
government for that.  We have to depend on ourselves and each
other.

(applause)

"As several other people on this panel have said, the answers
really are within us. Once we realize who we are, what we're here
about, where we're going, that truth will literally set us
free....

"We've been trying now for some time to have open hearings in
Congress.  We want this issue to be in the hands of the elected
representatives of the American people where it should have been
from the very beginning.

(applause)

"And so as Ed Mitchell has pointed out several times, sadly
enough, this issue is in the hands of someone else.  That has got
to be changed.

(applause)

"I want to say in closing that I want you all to approach the
next few years, not with fear, not with dread, and not looking
for doom.  I want you to understand that we are at the beginning
of a new age, of a new time, of a new beginning.

"I believe in the American people.  I believe in the citizens of
this planet.  I am proud to be a member of the human race.
Ladies and gentlemen we are going to have an absolutely glorious
future.

"God bless you and thank you."
==========================================
Audio Cassettes:  http://www.aloha.net/~axiom/tapes.html
____________________________________________
Robert O. Dean, retired Army Command Sergeant Major

Back in the Sixties, NATO issued a classified report stating that UFOs were
real, of extraterrestrial origin, and had visited the earth. This
extraordinary report was said to come out of NATO's command center, the
Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE), located then just outside
of Paris, France.

Dean, a highly decorated veteran, served on the front lines in both Korea
and Vietnam. In 1963, while assigned to the Supreme Headquarters Operations
Center (SHOC), SHAPE's war room, headed up by then-Supreme Allied Commander
of Europe, Gen. Lyman Lemnitzer, Dean claims he was able to read the
detailed 12-inch-thick NATO report on UFOs.
____________________________________________
Prophets Conference 'Contact' Panelists:
Robert Dean  http://www.rtd.com/~stargate/stargate.html
Dr. Edgar Mitchell  http://www.tcom.co.uk/hpnet/mitchell.htm
Dr. Steven Greer http://www.cseti.org/
Bill Hamilton  http://members.aol.com/billh46088/bio.htm
Ted Loman  http://www.aloha.net/~axiom/speakers.html#Ted Loman
Jim Dilettoso  http://www.ufomind.com/people/d/dilettoso
==========================================
All The Notes From The Prophets Conferences:
http://www.aloha.net/~axiom/notes.html
The Prophets Conferences - Created by Axiom and G. Cody Johnson
Axiom - http://www.aloha.net/~axiom/

Subscribe or Unsubscribe List:  prophets@maui.net










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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:30:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:30:28 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:40:48 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


Regarding lens flare:

In another message I suggested you post you other pictures so we
can see if the "flare" appears in other locations relative to the
source of light.

It is my understanding that this was taken in late afternoon so
the sun would have been on the horizon.   Try to be accurate with
the directions.

Were there any streetlights around or other lights at the time?
Since you know where you toopk the photo (I presume) and in which
direction (from the background) you can, presumably, take another
at roughly the same time or at least for the same lighting
conditions  (e.g., sun on horizon?)

TRY TO CREAT A LENS FLARE.... you will be able to tell when you
have by looking through the lens.  Point the camera ALMOST at a
bright light which appears in a darker surrounding backgroud.
We can compare a guaranteed lens flare with the orb.







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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: ASIUS <asius@mindless.com> {Mike Stahl]
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:07:56 +1030
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:58:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?


> From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu  [Barbara Becker]
> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:04:08 -0600
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFO Sphere/Orb over Brooklyn, NY

> > Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:54:38 +1030
> > From: JJ  [Jennifer Jarvis]
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto
> > Subject: "UFO SPHERE/ORB" over BROOKLYN


Hi Barbara, JJ, Errol and list,

This subject is one in need of quite a deal more
study and one oft overlooked in pursuit of the
more "nuts and bolts" type investigations.

I would be grateful to any other list members if
they would post their experiences in relation to
this subject as Barbara has done.

If we suppose that these "unknowns" are piloted by
extraterrestrial entities, surely it is reasonable
to expect (given the capabilities under
development by the military etc. here on earth)
beings advanced enough to travel the vast voids of
space would be capable of communication on a non
auditory level - e.g. Telepathy.

If we accept for the purposes of this exercise
that the possibility of the abduction phenomenon
is real, and that the removal of memories, or at
least their suppression, must somehow relate to
mental interference of a type by the ETs, then
this would surely imply a vastly greater
understanding of neural operation by the ETs, and,
therefore, suggest that at the very least,
uni-lateral telepathy is well within the ET
capabilities.

It is interesting to note that, from the passage
supplied by Barbara, whilst there is a suggestion
of telepathy, the actual communication manifested
as an audible response from the witness to this
event (which, given the disclosed non familiarity
with ETs and UFOs in general by Barbara at that
time,) is hardly a surprising response.

Barbara - perhaps you would be so kind as to
provide the list with your perception of what was
actually communicated, whether it was uni or
bi-lateral, and if the telepathic communication
is what precipitated your desire to flee(?).

Was there some type of fear or impression of
imminent peril "communicated" by the object or its
possible occupants, or was your reaction more to
do with a "fear" of the unknown - a natural
reaction by many faced with the events as
outlined? You have delineated your response
clearly enough, but I am still left wondering
what you actually "received", if anything, or, if
it was your impression that the telepathy was
solely on your behalf, in "ordering" the object to
leave?

Far from being "Just another story added to the
millions", each "experiencer" should look to
sharing their knowledge for the betterment of
understanding by all investigating in this arena.
If only more people would come forward!

Regards,


ASIUS

The Antipodean.

[aka Mike Stahl]

--
"Captain, I am detecting evil thoughts."
"Evil thoughts?  Spock, get that tribble out of
your pants!"








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:14:38 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:05:04 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:49:05 +0100
>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY



>> From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>> >From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
>> >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:57:24 -0500 (EST)
>> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>> >Alex,

>> >Why did you not center the "sphere" in your frame area instead of
>> >having it off to the other side of the frame from the sun?
>> (Exactly where one would>expect a lens flare).

>> >As a professional photographer I would like to state categorically
>> >that this is a lens flare. Sorry I can only speak to what I see,
>> >not any other references to what you saw before or after taking
>> the picture.
>> >Drew Williamson

>> HI DREW,

>> The image has the orb in that location because as it was moving,
>> while it was doing its "thing" I  was trying to capture it on
>> film , I took many pics during this event and never saw any lens
>> flare through my camera . It is not like the orb posed or stood
>> still for me to film it, as soon as I saw it in the camera I took
>> pics, Where it ended up it ended up. I already said that I agree
>> it looks like lens flare but I know it was not. There is probably
>> no way I could prove this even if I had 100 other witnesses , it
>> appears that as long as the so called "experts" voice there
>> opinions that is the final word, well I think the "experts"
>> should start to understand that it is possible for them to make
>> an incorrect assesment of something. If I saw any lens flare
>> through the camera during this I would say so, I do not want
>> false or misleading info to be presented to the ufo community.
>> The orb was very much the color in the pic and I guess it is
>> possible for lens flare and the orb to be close in colors.

>> I am not new to the ufo field and have many years of experience
>> and I do not put out what I believe are false reports or
>> pictures.

>> Is it possible for any of the film "experts" to plot the lens in
>> the camera to know if the camera is capable of producing lens
>> flare at that part of the lens? Is it impossible to get lens
>> flare in the middle / center of a image? I do have other pics of
>> this ORB and I might consider releasing them if I can be
>> convinced that this is lens flare but so far no one in my opinion
>> has done that.

>> I have seen many orb pics, some were of orbs of different colors
>> some white and most if not all were called lens flare by the
>> "experts" at some point in time. So I guess as long as a orb is
>> the color and in a possible posiotin to be considered lens flare,
>> thats what the "experts" will call it, even if that is
>> incorrect.

>> I thank all the people who have emailed with there opinions and
>> am not in the least bit bothered by the negative ones, I think
>> this is what should be.

>> So, I do no know what else I can say about the event except I
>> would be glad to take a lie detector test / voice stress analysis
>> etc to help support what I claimed happened.

>> thanks,
>> ALEX CAVALLARI

>Hi Alex,

>What happens is that some of the people who subscribe to the list
>don't read all of the data that comes in but just target certain
>areas. I find this a bit maddening because you have to keep
>explaining yourself over and over, thereby making yourself look
>defensive. I've had this happen to me more than a few times and I won't
>waste my time on it.

>The guy sez, he saw the thing then took a picture of it. Accept that
>and move on, other wise you're calling him a liar. If we took that
>attitude with all of our witnesses, and it got around, where the hell
>would we be?

>Don Ledger

Don,

I take strong offense to this response of yours. Perhaps it's
just your need to vent frustration at your attempts at requesting
information or help from an E-mail list.

Firstly, I am aware of all the circumstances surrounding Alex's
claim. As I stated, I can only respond to the evidence provided,
and, in my opinion as a professional photographer, what I see is
a lens flare and all the incumbent circumstances that cause it.

I don't have to accept anything, and I am NOT calling Alex a
liar! Where the hell would we be if we accepted everything?
Exactly where the state of "ufology" is today, with too many
people who are already accepting everything at face value.

It has already been suggested by Bob that there may be two
phenomenon at work. Alex admits at least the possibility that he
may not have captured what he saw on film.

I sure hope you used more critical faculties in writing your book
on the Shag Harbour incident! Otherwise we may have to suffer
through an account by a fisherman `Jones' who claims he saw pigs
flying the craft before it hit the water.

Drew Williamson









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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:30:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:52:34 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:52:19 -1000


>I'm not sure of the significance of this thread.  If you say you
>saw an anomaly and photographed it, then you did as far as I am
>concerned. I think you can be taken at your word. Even so, if it
i>s not lens flare, it is not identifiable as anything either
t>errestrial or extraterrestrial so what is the point? Everyone
>agrees that there are unidentifiable lights in the sky, and the
.>fact that you and millions of other people have seen and
>photographed them is interesting.

>But the discussion has digressed to the point where people are
>suggesting that UFOs intentionally spoof camera optics to mimic a
>natural camera phenomenon while appearing as something else to a
l>ive observer. Is it that two sets of photons are on the same
>path but one set enters only the camera and one set enters only
t>he observer's eye?  As my english professor used to state so
>eloquently:  "How do it know?" >

>Has it come to the point when everything anyone sees is an ET
>craft?  And if it happens to look exactly like an airplane or a
>falling star, or a black helicopter or a lens flare, does that
>merely mean that the ETs have nothing better to do than defy the
>known laws of physics for the purpose of creating optical
>illusions on the off-chance that a UFO investigator with a camera
>might be looking up?????

>Apparently so. I wasn't a skeptic when I joined the list. I
>wanted to learn things I don't know, of which there are a LOT.
>But I am starting to become convinced that no one knows much of
>anything and either make up explanations for everything they
>don't understand, or claim that they HAD all the evidence but the
>MIBs stole it in the middle of the night.  It's B.S.! >

>IS...... NOT....... What difference does it make? What is proven
>one way or the other?  Nothing!  It is not evidence of ANYTHING!


BE A SKEPTIC!!!!
And understand that here you see the workings of an investigation.
In the ufo "business", since UFOs/ET/Alien Flying Craft(AFC)
DON'T EXIST acording to the "straight" world, the witness is
always guilty until proven innocent (because no sane witness
would report something that is impossible...obviously <g>).

Alex says he saw saomething.  Then he took a picture of it.

If you believe Alex....you don't need the picture!  His report is
goo enough.   If you don't believe his report is accurate (maybe
he honestly misidentified something.... or maybe he made the
whole thing up---a hoax), then you have the picture to "prove"
something was there.... Or was it?

So now we have counter proposals to explain the picture (I note
no one has yet proposed an explanation for the sighting
itself...like, for example, ball lightning..... but that would
just be explaining one unknown with another).   Could the picture
show the object he saw?   If not, it certainly  wouldn't be the
first time that someone saw (A) and photographed (B) by
accident...as Bob Shell has pointed out.  In fact, quite a number
of photos/videos/etc.

I have looked at have shown things which are not consistent with
the witness testimony.

Anyway, I have (and another person) have proposed that the other
pictures be posted.   It is possible that the other pictures
contain images that cannot be flares.  Also, Bob has suggested
learning about th camera so we could determine whether or not the
iris would,. indeed, allow a flare like that image.

So, suppose we conclude it is a flare?   That means the testimony
must stand on its own and we have only the witness (Alex) memory
for the description of the object he saw.  POINT:  WE CAN'T
SIMPLY REJECT THE SIGHTING EVEN IF WE CAN EXPLAIN THE PHOTO
IMAGE....unless we can prove that Alex is a (mean, nasty,
probably CSICOP member) hoaxer!!!!

As to whether or not the sighting could be a misidentification
of some wierd thing or if it is definitely ET/AFC related...that
argument mus be based on the testimony/


ON THE OTHER HAND:  if the flare theory is rejected... then I see
no other explanation than that Alex photographed what he saw.
Now the argument would switch to whether or not the photo is of
an ET craft (AFC).   (Or could it be a mental projection..
whatever that is... or some other bizarre phenomenon... just as
unknown as UFOs).

SO, you ask, what is the payoff?  WHAT IS PROVEN?
About the only thing we can get out of the photo
argument is the possibility that we have an actual photo
of one of the light balls that have been so often reported
by witnesses...who didn't have cameras handy!  This would
be a valuable payoff.

At the very least we appear to have a sighting of something
wierd.   It may or may not be earth shaking, but it could be
another nail on the coffin of the skeptics.

And the appearance of the helicopter.... how many times have I
heard of that? (let me count the ways).







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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:30:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:36:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?


>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:47:44 +1030
>From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

<snip>

Thanks for getting this back on track.

>Attached is a gif. of an "unknown" that I documented back in May.


There is a non-uniform blr of your sailboat images. This
suggests to me a time exposure.  Was this an evening shot?  Did
the camera rotate during exposure or was it on a tripod?

If the camera rotated then the length of the "light" images is not
related to their actual size.







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:31:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:40:20 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>While it was doing its "thing" I  was trying to capture it on
>film , I took many pics during this event and never saw any lens
>flare through my camera . It is not like the orb posed or stood
>still for me to film it, as soon as I saw it in the camera I took
>pics, Where it ended up it ended up. I already said that I agree
>it looks like lens flare but I know it was not. There is probably
>no way I could prove this even if I had 100 other witnesses , it
>appears that as long as the so called "experts" voice there
>opinions that is the final word, well I think the "experts"
>should start to understand that it is possible for them to make
>an incorrect assesment of something. If I saw any lens flare
>through the camera during this I would say so, I do not want
>false or misleading info to be presented to the ufo community.
>The orb was very much the color in the pic and I guess it is
>possible for lens flare and the orb to be close in colors. >

There are general geometric relations between a light source and
a flare it might cause in an optical system.  If you have other
pictures with th orb in different locations they might prove that
the orb is not a flare. For example, if you have another photo in
which the sun (?) or light source is to the left and the orb is
also left of center (the photo you showed has it right of
center), this might be evidence against a flare. If you have
several photos with the orb in different locations you might post
same to help in the "flare analysis"..... which is being treated
as "independent" of your testimony.









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                         Re: Communication with UFOs

From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 22:59:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:01:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs

> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:19:05 +1030
> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs

> Hello Bryan.

> Regarding the clearest  image from the video, I only obtained
> two frames, and those were purely to show the two boats in the
> foreground.

> I was focused on the distant objects, which, at my height above
> water's surface would have been  5.1 Nautical Miles, or 5.9
> Statute Miles from my vantage point.  They appeared at the same
> time on three consecutive evenings.

> On 26th May  I obtained a different camera, which I have been
> using ever since, and which gives better focus and general
> clarity.

> Maybe, next May, they will reappear, and give me further
> opportunity to film them.

> I will let you know if they decide to visit again.   I HAVE
> asked them.  :-)

JJ...

Do you still have the video tape of the event?  I'm not sure I
understand why you only have two still frames, one which you
posted, if you took the video?  Also...did you have a camera with
you on the other nights when the objects reappeared?  I guess I'm
asking if there are more photos period :)

I believe when we begin gathering multiple photographic evidence
of single events, then possibly our understanding of these
objects will be broadened.  A good case in point are the Arizona
sightings last year.  If the event would have been documented by
one photo...even perhaps one video...the event which took place
on March 13, 97 would not be considered a substantial sighting in
modern ufology.

Photographic and video evidence will not solve the UFO mystery
alone, it will take collaboration and patience on all fronts...

...but visuals always help :)

cheers,
Bryan!
--
_________________
- - - -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.raccoon.com/~bryan
_________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^







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                         Re: Communication with UFOs

From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 22:59:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:04:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs

> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:19:05 +1030
> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs

> Hello Bryan.

> Regarding the clearest  image from the video, I only obtained
> two frames, and those were purely to show the two boats in the
> foreground.

> I was focused on the distant objects, which, at my height above
> water's surface would have been  5.1 Nautical Miles, or 5.9
> Statute Miles from my vantage point.  They appeared at the same
> time on three consecutive evenings.

> On 26th May  I obtained a different camera, which I have been
> using ever since, and which gives better focus and general
> clarity.

> Maybe, next May, they will reappear, and give me further
> opportunity to film them.

> I will let you know if they decide to visit again. I HAVE
> asked them.  :-)

> Best wishes.

> JJ

JJ...

Do you still have the video tape of the event?  I'm not sure I
understand why you only have two still frames, one which you posted, if
you took the video?  Also...did you have a camera with you on the other
nights when the objects reappeared?  I guess I'm asking if there are
more photos period :)

I believe when we begin gathering multiple photographic evidence of
single events, then possibly our understanding of these objects will be
broadened.  A good case in point are the Arizona sightings last year.
If the event would have been documented by one photo...even perhaps one
video...the event which took place on March 13, 97 would not be
considered a substantial sighting in modern ufology.

Photographic and video evidence will not solve the UFO mystery alone, it
will take collaboration and patience on all fronts...

...but visuals always help :)

cheers,
Bryan!
--
_________________
- - - -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.raccoon.com/~bryan
_________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:59:45 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:24:25 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:14:38 -0500 (EST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:49:05 +0100
>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>>> From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>>> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
>>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>>> >From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
>>> >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:57:24 -0500 (EST)
>>> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>>> >Alex,

>>> >As a professional photographer I would like to state categorically
>>> >that this is a lens flare. Sorry I can only speak to what I see,
>>> >not any other references to what you saw before or after taking
>>> the picture.
>>> >Drew Williamson

Hi Errol, JJ, and list subscribers,

I would like to take offense at this UN-scientific and
obviously biased opinion.

Jenifer Jarvis is a well-respected and honest skywatcher.

She has presented many pics of the "ORBS" and has been
working with CSETI for several years.

My experience with photographing unidentified LITS
reveal that sometimes even a close-up photo will
sometimes be blacked out completely. Or will present
light that looks totally different than that seen with
naked eye.

Skeptical disinformation is not the same as
scientific proof.

Steve

Steve Neeley
Ohio Director
Skywatch International
Hardin County Ohio Skywatch &
Sighter Support
http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782
stneeley@bright.net








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                      Re: Menwith Hill, United Kingdom?

From: Jules <Jules@alien-net.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:37:02 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:34:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Menwith Hill, United Kingdom?


>From: "Larry Hatch" <larryhat@jps.net>
>To: "UPDATES TORONTO LIST" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Menwith Hill, Britain
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:14:19 -0800

>Menwith Hill (somewhere in Britain) is another of those secret
>military bases that everyone knows about.

>But,  I cannot find it in my references!

>I need longitude/latitude coordinates to enter a sighting in the
>*U* UFO Database.

>Can anyone tell me how to locate Menwith Hill with some
>reasonable degree of accuracy?


>Larry,

>It's in an area within the Yorkshire Dales. 560 acres of moorland,
>stretching for 5 1/2 miles. Run by the NSA, operated by Americans
>only.


Its not far from Leeds,
whose co-ordinates are (according to a skymap prog).
Lat 53 49 48 N
Long 1 34 12 W










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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:05:29 +1030
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:09:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?


> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:43:08 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
> From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Communication with UFOs?

> > Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:47:44 +1030
> > From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
> > To: updates@globalserve.net
> > Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> <snip>

> > Hi Joe!!

> > Thanks for getting this back on track.

> > Attached is a gif. of an "unknown" that I documented back in May.

> > I was not aware of any "communication" between self and said
> > "unknown/s," but, I DID ask it/them to show themselves again!!!!

> > It/they  kindly manifested  on three consecutive evenings, and I
> > don't think that THIS was a lens flare.

> > Best wishes.

> > JJ


> Hi JJ,

> Do you know any of the people in the two sailboats?  Did they or
> any others also see the two bright objects in your gif video
> frame while you were videotaping them?  How do the two bright
> objects look like when the second sailboat passed in front of
> them a moment later?  Were the two bright objects in front or
> behind the sailboats?

> Since the two bright objects seem to be at the horizon (at first
> glance they look like distant clouds or oceanliners shining in
> bright sunshine), why are they so sharply defined while the
> sailboats, waves and horizon are not?  Are the red colour borders
> at the bottom of the two bright objects present when you
> videotape other bright objects or do you think they are part of
> the objects themselves?  Did you also see these red borders with
> your eyes only?

> Why do you feel that the object(s) you saw on three consecutive
> nights were the same as these daytime bright objects?  Did they
> look any different?  Did they resemble the red lights you saw
> over Lake Ontario near Oakville last summer?

> Thanks for sharing information about your UFO sightings with us.

> Nick


*****************************************************************

Hello Nick,

Thank you for your comments and questions.

SAILBOAT PEOPLE !!!??? NO....unfortunately, but it won't be long
before I AM IN A BOAT !!!!   32 footer !!!

The "bright objects" were at approximately 5.9 statute miles from
my location.  I have NO idea who else was watching them at that
moment.

The "bright objects" are way behind the boats, as you can see by
the fact that the boats are very fuzzy and out of focus.

I had a converter on my camera giving a magnification of 8 x 5.5
at the time.   Sorry about blur, but I was focused on the BRIGHT
BOYS, not the boats.

Regular boats don't really pique my interest!!!

The "RED BORDERS" that you mention are characteristic of
"unknowns" operating at "lower power" according to Paul R. Hill
in his book "Unconventional Flying Objects - A Scientific
Analysis."

The "cloud" around the "unknown" appears to be
"see-through."..... certainly to myself, and the camera!!!

WITH MY EYES????  My attention was drawn to these "BRIGHT"
objects on the previous night, May 20th, and they also appeared
on the 21st and  22nd at identical times.  I saw them more as
ORANGE than red, BUT no changes have been made to the video.
YOU SEE what I SAW on the original!!!  The "still" has not been
altered either.

Re. the RED LIGHTS over Lake Ontario last year: the red light you
mention was similar to a pulsating red light on a small aircraft
(e.g. Cessna), but this continued for about an  hour, and
executed strange turns, so I am doubtful as to whether it WAS a
"conventional."  This sighting you mention occurred on Tuesday,
May 13th, 1997.

I hope to continue with this documentation as the spring
approaches.

JJ





--
Ev'ry breath you take,
Ev'ry move you make,
Ev'ry bond you break
Ev'ry step you take,
I'LL BE WATCHING YOU!!!!

(STING 1983)







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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:00:35 +1030
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:05:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?


> From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
> To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Communication with UFOs?
> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:30:12 -0500

> >Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:47:44 +1030
> >From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >Hi Joe!!

> >Thanks for getting this back on track.

> >Attached is a gif. of an "unknown" that I documented back in May.

> >I was not aware of any "communication" between self and said
> >"unknown/s," but, I DID ask it/them to show themselves again!!!!

> >It/they kindly manifested on three consecutive evenings, and I
> >don't think that THIS was a lens flare.

> >Best wishes.

> >JJ

> It would be very interesting to see a longer sequence here. I
> note the blur, which suggests motion, on all objects but the
> UFOs. Was the camera tracking the objects?  At what distance were
> they? (They look very 'superimposed' -- but please note, I'm not
> attacking your veracity, merely making an observation). The
> color/albeido values also seem out of kilter on the objects, when
> compared with the average values in the frame itself. Can you
> provide additional images?

> Brian


********

Hello Brian!

Thanks for your comments.

The camera did not NEED to track the objects in question.
Pixel count on the video showed no "linear" movement as such.
I just locked the camera in position, on the tripod, and let
it "roll."

The wind was quite strong, and some vibration took place, but
there was NO need to do any tracking.

The sequence ran for about 15 minutes if I remember correctly.
This also happened on the following evening, May 22nd. at the
same time.

The video has NOT been altered in any way, and neither has the
still that I posted on UpDates.

Best wishes.

JJ







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   Feb > Feb 11

               Re: 'UFOs & Social Security?' Clinton's Speech

From: "Keith M. King" <alien2@sound.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:39:46
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:33:41 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFOs & Social Security?' Clinton's Speech


Judging by wha we know about Mr. Clinton and his probable
exclusion from the inner 'loop' of individuals housing this kind
of sensitive material, I would guess that some are probably
reading too much into this speech.  It is highly unlikely that
we'll see any Congressional hearings into the phenomenon of UFOs
under this administration.

Keith M. King
M. King Studies








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:14:24 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:22:56 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:23:31 -1000

>> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:25:28 -0800 (PST)
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>> >From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
>> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>> >Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:39:24 -1000


>> >> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:13:54 -0800 (PST)
>> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> >> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

><snip>

>> As you should know, one doesn't divorce a photograph from the
>> testimony of the eye-witness to the event who took the
>> photograph.

>Very well, Jim.  The photographer says that he cannot identify
>the object as terrestrial or extraterrestrial. Or anything about
>it.  It might be a lens flare, a wayward monopole, the
>manifestation of a portion of the dark matter in the universe,
>or nothing at all.

OK, Tom, you win!  It was an Unidentified Flitting-around Object.
(But check those capitalized initials.)

>> >>and (2) it says something about their strategy
>> >>or level of ethics in dealing with us, in that they provide a
>> >>certain measure of deniability to persons who can't accept its
>> >>reality and who don't mind ignoring certain aspects about the
>> >>object's description or reported behavior when latching onto that
>> >>deniability factor.

>Your logic is starting to wear thin, Jim.  What you are saying,
>in effect, is that if a skeptic sees a ET craft it will appear to
>him as an unidentifiable anomaly.  If a non-skeptic is standing
>next to him and sees the same thing, he will see an ET craft.
>{...}

The context was that only one person saw (and photographed) it.
So if you don't change the context, it goes like this:  The
witness sees it, and he finds it to be unidentified and very
impressive, and his photograph supports him (although it may
resemble a lens flare or a meteor or whatever).  Then the skeptic
learns of it and keeps open the likelihood that it is still
unidentified, since the object's behavior does not accord with
what its photograph resembles, and since the witness has
credibility.  Also, a negative skeptic learns of it, and
concludes either that the unidentified object is not a "genuine"
UFO, or that it is the same thing which the photo resembles, even
though that conflicts with the witness's report on its behavior.

Jim Deardorff








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                              "Neither rain..."

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:54:44 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:21:15 -0500
Subject: "Neither rain..."

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website:
http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

February 9, 1998

"Neither rain, nor sleet..."  Well, maybe rain.  I get to actually blame El
Nino for something.  My server's location lost power, and in the re-build,
disabled the mailing lists temporarily.  That's why, for the first time since
I started this in June of 1996, nothing went out last week.  If this one going
out works, the system is repaired.  I should get at least one mailing out this
week...I appreciate your patience.

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"

____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is
commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from
those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also
subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the
same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the
media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week
before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.
______________________________

http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html
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I'm very excited about this!  Some of you know, I ran a bookstore
for years, and it has always been a love of mine.  I get asked
often to recommend books(I do write reviews for several
publications) on these topics, and now I can do it and actually
give you a source for them at the same time!  This is being done
in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding
reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection,
searchability, service, savings, and security.  If there is any
specific book you want (or topic in which you are interested),
let me know and I will do the research and e-mail you a link you
can use to check it out more (and order it if you want).  I will
be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more
efficient for you.  If you click on the link, you will be sent to
that title on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point!
You may, but the option is yours.







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   Feb > Feb 11

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: XELAUFO@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:24:31 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:49:33 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


Hi Everyone,

I have set up a simple home page and I am posting updates on the
UFO Sphere/Orb event. There is some new info and 3 more pictures
of the ORB posted as of now. If any of you sent me a request for
the story/pics and I missed you, sorry, the email is quite a bit
to handle, please just email a request to me again or go to the
home page.

http://members.aol.com/XELAUFO/index.html

thank you,

ALEX CAVALLARI

New York State Director
Skywatch International Inc
KB2NYV Amateur Radio
XELAUFO@AOL.COM







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             DISPATCH # 82 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScop

From: ParaScope@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:37:57 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:53:10 -0500
Subject: DISPATCH # 82 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScop

DISPATCH # 82 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

 S O M E T H I N G   S T R A N G E   I S   H A P P E N I N G

 2/9/98

 Quote of the Week

 �The country that represents Satan's harvest is America.�

 -- Rev. Sun Myung Moon

 -----------------------

 Rant of the Week: "Let's pie the polluting lolly!�

 Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the
 hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present
 it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, we�re thrilled to offer a
 special "remote guest rant" from Noel Godin, the twisted genius behind the
 recent guerilla cream pie attack on probable anitchrist Bill Gates. Excerpted
 from an interview on the Netly News web site (netly.com), Godin�s comments
 offer invaluable insight into his inspired assault. Enjoy.

 �I'm part of a gang of bad hellions that have declared the pie war on all the
 unpleasant celebrities in every kind of domain. [Our slogan is:  �Let's pie!
 Let's pie! Nincompoop guys!�] We began to act against �empty� celebrities from
 the artistic world who were thinking they were the cat's whiskers.

 "[We decided to pie Bill Gates because] in a way he is the master of the
 world, and then because he's offering his intelligence, his sharpened
 imagination and his power to the governments and to the world as it is today
 -- that is to say gloomy, unjust and nauseating. He could have been a utopist,
 but he prefers being the lackey of the establishment. His power is effective
 and bigger than that of the leaders of the governments, who are only many-
 colored servants. So Bill Gates was at the top of our lists of victims. The
 attack against him is symbolic, it's against hierarchical power itself. Our
 war cry was explicit: �Let's pie! Let's pie the polluting lolly!�

 �We declare war on all the governments of the world, on Tony Blair, on Bill
 Clinton, on the pope... On our blacklist, you will also find Demi Moore; Tom
 Cruise and John Travolta, who are both members of the Scientology; Bill
 Graham... On the other hand, we h
s everywhere. We
 had thousands of propositions to help us, even abroad. We also have many
 enemies. But we are like the characters of a cartoon. We are like Laurel &
 Hardy, Bugs Bunny, the Marx Brothers, the yippies of May 1968.�

 [Read the whole text of Godin�s interview at: http://www.netly.com

 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 Coming Up Next Week!

 Catch a number of great stories next week on a daily basis on America or all
 at once next Friday on the web site, including daily updates to our Conspiracy
 Newsline and Daily Dose features. Among the articles you'll want to check out:


 Subliminal CIA?  A Secret Report on the Power of Hidden Persuasion

 In 1958, the American public faced a frightening question: could subliminal
 messages be used to influence the unsuspecting? The anecdotal evidence seemed
 to confirm the Big Brotherish power of subliminals. Naturally, the CIA checked
 it out. Now you can read what is probably the agency's first assessment of
 "The Operational Potential of Subliminal Perception." Don't miss this
 declassifed report from the dawn of the mind wars.

 ----------------------

 Fortean Slips: Big Hot Throbbing Valentine's Edition!

 Love is a many-splendored thing... and it's pretty much a many-weirded
 thing, too. Join "Love Doctor" D. Trull for this second annual romantic
 roundup of outrageous slings and arrows fired from Cupid's bow.

 Sperm Warfare: Think every sperm is created equal? Sir, no, sir! Learn
 how male gametes are regimented into specialized fighting forces on the
 reproductive battlefield.

 The Orgasm Chasm: Scientists have learned that women experience a "more
 highly evolved" orgasm than men -- and they've figured out how to make a
 pill that chemically produces that rapturous brain response ladies love.

 Unholy Matrimony: Instead of consulting a counselor about their troubled
 relationships, some couples in south Asia try to drive the evil spirits
 out of their marriage with exorcism therapy.

 Spontaneous Panty Combustion: Maybe you've heard of hot pants, but take
 a peek at what
 her
 underwear unexpectedly burst into flames!

 ----------------------

 Roswell: What Really Happened! Now It Can Be Told! The Probable Scenario...

 Author and fringe journalist John Shirley takes a walk back through Roswell
 history, retracing the steps and connecting the facts with some good ol'
 common sense. What emerges is a very plausible theory -- although a theory
 which may not please those who adamantly believe that a flying saucer really
 did crash in the desert near Roswell. Is this how it happened? You be the
 judge.

 ----------------------

 Area 51: Alive, Well, and Expanding?

 In June 1997, Popular Mechanics ran an error-riddled article claiming that the
 Air Force had for all intents and purposes abandoned Area 51, the top-secret
 test site where some ufologists believe alien spacecraft have been reverse-
 engineered and experimented with. Flying saucers notwithstanding, ParaScope
 correspondent Norio Hayakawa reports that not only does strange aerial
 activity continue to occur at Groom Lake, but the secret base is actually
 expanding! Get the latest reports from Area 51 and find out about the upcoming
 People's Rally at Area 51.

 ----------------------

 ParaNoise: News, Notes, Rants and Manifestos from the Fringe

 Plug into ParaNoise and download a pure stream of raw, undistilled paranoia
 and concentrated dissidence. From upcoming activist events to mind control
 conspiracies, get the latest news, scoops and freakouts.


 ...All this, and much, much more!

 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing!

 Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize
 you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway?
 Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe
 yourself from Dispatch:

 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com

 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch

 That's all there is to it!

 Likewise, to unsubscribe:

 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com

 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dis
-------------------------

 ParaScope
 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904
 Studio City, CA 91604

 America Online -- keyword: parascope
 parascope@aol.com

 World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com
 info@parascope.com








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 11

                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:36:02 +1030
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:19:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?


> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:30:57 -0500
> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Communication with UFOs?
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:47:44 +1030
> >From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> <snip>

> Thanks for getting this back on track.

> >Attached is a gif. of an "unknown" that I documented back in May.

> There is a non-uniform blr of your sailboat images. This
> suggests to me a time exposure.  Was this an evening shot?  Did
> the camera rotate during exposure or was it on a tripod?

> If the camera rotated then the length of the "light" images is not
> related to their actual size.


Hi there Bruce!!!!

This is an _un-altered__still_ taken off a _video_tape_.

The camera was on a tripod, and I was using the Panasonic vid
cam that I mentioned on Sunday in my posting.  The mag was x 66
and I was focused on the _bright_objects_, not on the boats.

Having locked onto the "event," I did _not_ move the camera, and
just let it "roll" for about fifteen minutes.

I captured _two_ frames from the VHS vid, and posted _one_ of
them to the UpDates list.

Best wishes.

JJ







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                        Re: Communication with UFOs?

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:55:12 +1030
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:24:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs?


> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:30:57 -0500
> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Sender: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

> >Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:47:44 +1030
> >From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> There is a non-uniform blr of your sailboat images. This
> suggests to me a time exposure.  Was this an evening shot?  Did
> the camera rotate during exposure or was it on a tripod?

> If the camera rotated then the length of the "light" images is not
> related to their actual size.


Second Posting to Query from Bruce Maccabee:


Hi Bruce.

Here is the posting I did to UpDates on Sunday, again:



Dear Updates.

In  my earlier post which included a gif. file of an "event"
that I documented last May, I neglected to include details
of the camera that was used.

For your information:

PANASONIC "OmniMovie" VHS format.
PV-610-K
8:1 Power Zoom

At the time of this "event" I was also using a X 5.5 Tokina
converter

I then had "stills" taken off the VHS tape..

Sorry about the oversight.

Best wishes,

JJ







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                      Re: Menwith Hill, United Kingdom?

From: "Larry Hatch" <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:44:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:37:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Menwith Hill, United Kingdom?

Dan, Dave, Henny and others on the List

With your fine help I have definitely located Menwith Hill (Golf
ball domes and all)... so no need to look any further.

It is interesting to note that I already had 10 other sightings
listed within about five miles, Menwith is the eleventh!

Blubberhouses has 4 listings in the *U* database, Ilkley and
Ilkley Moor account for another four. Others are in Beamsley and
Addington.

I could have found this out from my own bookshelf if memory had
served me better..

Menwith Hill is prominently discussed in 'The Puzzle Palace', a
book by James Bamford, ISBN 0-14-00.6748-5, 1982 Penguin Books.

See. pp 268-272, pp 419-420 and pg 510.

There were several reprints in the USA and UK editions.

Thank you all for you help!

-  Larry Hatch







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                        PROJECT-1947: Re: Ed Stewart

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:37:35 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:47:06 -0500
Subject: PROJECT-1947: Re: Ed Stewart

Greetings List,

I talked to Ed today.  Typical Ed, he wanted to leave the
hospital and go to work in the disaster relief agency.  He cannot
stand being in the hospital.  He was more worried about his
mother and his cat than himself.

He said that he thinks he can walk now and is impatient to get
out of the hospital.
--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #222

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 04:57:35 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:32:48 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #222

Apology to MW #222 (For February 11, 1998)

In each of us lies a potential for power, beyond all our reach, and of
course, beyond grasp. It is in this pure conscious we cower denying the fact
of this power to our last charmless gasp. It's why tested faith can move
mountains of mountains, while common faith just puts you on your knees, and
the whispers of the ancients go unheeded in that folly, and your trust is
uncontesting in prevaricating breeze. With soul sold to hard science, to
exclusion of the *false*, the rut is plain, and would explain our graceless,
soulless waltz.

We are jealous of our turf and repel the odd incursion that we justify might
push us from our *spot*. We pronounce on this indifference in the treatment
of our fellows who could flatly go to hell as quick as not. And it's 'cause
we're so damn many, cut in half we're still too many, and we breed, and=
 plan,
and suffer without end. Respect is parceled out to quell the fear we'd do
without -- how some are faking cohorts, chums, and friends.

The mainstream skies are quiet, and the press is on a diet of our William's
errant pee pee, plain we see. All things remaining equal, I can find it far
less feeble to support a fellow human =85 gets it up like you and me (g).=
 The
obverse is a curse, who can't or won't while being terse, is the person
that's revolted by their glands. Take my choice between the two, and Willy
wins again, brave crew; he'll be the one to love sweet life, eschewing=
 crimes
that _others_ do.

Bush and Reagan got it up (?), and monkeys fly from Trent Lott's butt (!);
they were bitter with their gonads withered, dry, and shriveled up. I'll=
 take
a man still vital though he dally just a trifle. If true it was consensual=
 so
detraction is just spiteful. Bill didn't take your mother's money, like the
Reagan/Bush bunch did -- them whose balls are dry and self detested. Bill=
 has
steered to center like elitists never do, and that is true, and documented=
 --
uncontested.

Some say the other countries of this spinning blue white globe are laughing
up their sleeves at Uncle Sam. Well, I submit it's much, much worse. It is,
in fact, the universe that's laughing hard enough to beat the band. Our
morality's a joke that is writ to make poor folk _quiver_ 'neath the lashes
of their guilt. Their lives then spent in toil, they are boiled in culture's
oil, then buried out of sight in toxic silt.

All of this and more is surely hiding in the shadow of William's surly=
 member
now presented, freshly used? As it sways and sates its hungers space born
watchers watch hate mongers, then retreat from an encounter that might bring
them into view. The lights in velvet skies and the perils of our Earth,
somehow driven far away to miss its thrust? Gone are silent greys, the
vicious reps, and wishful nords; seemingly in terror of the thunder of its
lust?

In its shadow lights still dance, strange enigmas of weird chance, and the
multiverse's maw still yawns and beckons. But we would rather stew regarding
who puts what in who=85 -- and that is what we _are_, you think or reckon?

                                    Lehmberg@snowhill.com

I don't think so. It's certainly not what _I_ am!

The whole of the universe, undreamed of and immune to narrow band
speculation, stretches out before us like an unknown gel of un-guessed at
physics. Truth in fantasy, fantasy in truth, where mind, matter, and=
 movement
meld into rhythmic cosmic convolutions of just-might-be's, and
that's-been-done's. Out there =85 where it's no surprise that reality is a
multiverse of surprises because =85 because truly, reality goes on and on=
 into
an amount of raw space that allows, in probability (math folks inform),
ANYTHING to happen. Anything _can_ happen. Anything that _can_ happen has a
_propensity_ for happening. We live in that space where anything can happen.
Anything can happen right _here_. Anything is happening! Anything!

Ok -- now all of that and much, much more can be pushed aside, and ignored
because, worse case(!), one aging lothario had consensual sex with one of=
 his
organizational groupies? It's beyond laughable, moronically tragic, off=
 task,
and off the mark.

Why are we so willing to exchange healthy exploration for lurid, and
pointless, inquisition? You _know_ why! It is because there are _some_ who,
for convenient and self serving reasons, do not want to perform the healthy
exploration and _distract_ from it with the lurid inquisition!

Free John Ford!
~~~
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake, a victim of lurid inquisition.

=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=
=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=
=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1=B1

Government or Social Harassment REPORT - Presently, "ZERO" Personal
HARASSMENT; however, the harassment index is infinite for each of us.
Consider the wattles righteously waggling on your landed bluenose.









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                         Re: Communication with UFOs

From: wlmss@pegasus.com.au [Lawrie Williams]
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:02:51 +1000 (GMT+1000)
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:22:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs

>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:54:38 +1030
>From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: "UFO SPHERE/ORB" over BROOKLYN

>Last night I received, from Skywatch International, a long
>account of a "sighting" over Brooklyn, and was interested to note
>that the "witness" had attempted some form of mental
>communication with the object in question.

>Has anyone else ever found that, when watching "unknowns," it is
>possible to establish some form of telepathic rapport?

The UFO Message I seemed to receive in May 1995.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In 1995 UFO's
were reported in Central Australia. I drove from North Queensland
to count the horses' teeth.  This was late in May 1995.

When I got there I spoke to many witnesses. A UFO, often with a
smaller, fainter light behind it, had taken to swooping in from
the west every night and had been astonishing, delighting and
terrifying the staff and tourists there.

Lou Farkas, Manager of the Wycliffe Wells tourist park said
"Channel 10 from Brisbane" had purchased spectacular footage from
a tourist for $ 100 000. I certainly have heard nothing of it
since. Lou's business relied mainly on tourists and there was
little prospect that a hoax of any sort would affect his trade
much. It was interesting that his wife of Chinese extraction had
set up a shrine in the shop with a life sized ape doll at its
centre.

I did not get any footage. I carried a still fixed focus camera
and a JVC S-VHS videocamera, but did not intend to so much as get
any camera out unless an approach was made and it was clear to me
the camera would not offend.  Lets face it, photos were no proof
anyway. My mission was not to get proof but to discover the nature
of the total picture.

I was told by Lou that 30 m craft were materializing 1 km above
the Jarra Jarra Ranges and proceeding eastwards, visiting Wycliffe
Wells as if to get water.

Local aborigines told me that certain pools were empty because
"they drink the water".

My mini-expedition set itself up in the sparse gum forest where
only a few days earlier eyewitnesses said the craft had hovered,
illuminating the treetops with its lights.

We camped in a dry creek bed and later, at a better positioned
gravel dump immediately to the N of W Wells. The nights were cold
and by day the flies sought to lay eggs in our tear ducts,
sometimes with success. It is a funny sensation.  : )  There was
nothing paranormal there that we came across.

Eyewitness and regional newspaper accounts from people of all
cultures confirmed a certain pattern of activity, that hovering
craft with lights were approaching and following motor cars on the
highways. They were not earth lights and they were not advanced
military aircraft. These persistent vessels acted with clear
intelligent intent but there is no way anyone with access to
secret military craft would go out night after night and follow
aborigines and whites around in their cars at a few meters
altitude.

On our last night on the gravel dump one of my sons got gastro, or
we would not have been awake. At 4 a.m. a TOTALLY SILENT aircraft
drifted overhead. From illumination from flashing lights on the
fuselage I made it out through binocs (later) to be a US YF-23 or
YF-24. I did my ID from a "Time" Video. My report seems to have
later led to a posting on the skunk works mail-l "Goddam Loud
Mouth UFO Watchers" or words to that effect.  : )

At the time we did not feel it was a "real" UFO despite the
astonishing silence in the still desert air. The cessna "paper
plane" that flew past at a great distance made a racket.

The advanced tactical fighter was flying south at the time,
canting slowly and severely as it no doubt made full use of its
side scanning radar apparatus which is mounted in a long slit in
the belly of these aircraft. Or is it some sort of device for
delivering intense microwave pulses?

Its course was such as to take it over Wycliffe Wells at 4 a.m.
One night a little earlier I believe I saw a second such craft
flying south only it was much further to the west. That indicates
what Australians would call an emu parade. And like a dog that
runs from an abusing master, the UFO's had stopped coming to
Wycliffe Wells - as I observed. So yes, the US is hunting UFO's.

> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:20:41 +1030
> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

..........

> My question to the list was, in fact, asking if anyone had had
> any experience with "rapport"/"communication" etc. with
"UNKNOWNS."

> My area of study is not so much photographic, as
"communication."
> Thank you.     >  JJ

Sorry Joe, I did meander there. Communication is also my interest.
Communication with UFO's seems to take a variety of forms:

1 - telepathic messages from UFO's, (gene seem to develop
compulsions and
    passions that may or may not reflect the policies or
    attributes of some exotic culture. (prophesizing)


I believe communication did occur on my journey to Wycliffe Wells.
At the time I thought I was going to get to see diffuse "earth
lights" over some sacred spot, something like that. It was not
until well after I got there that I heard how they followed cars.
From the Queensland border westwards the road is devoid of any
settlement. It was dark anonsciousness, and it was linked in my
mind to the view out of the windscreen. It was as if I had two
views, one of the headlights on the road ahead, the other of a
tall skyline of black pine trees. This feeling and perspective
stayed with me four or more hours as we cruised along.

Then I heard this drumming, deep and slow. I was bemused at the
sound, and wound the window down and up, turned the radio on
(static) and off again. Nothing changed the noise. It carried a
feeling too.

Maybns through this area and they have had huge quakes in recent
years. I got a feeling of immense strain, as if it were some vast
geological underground entity with impending gestation. I'm afraid
that sounds a bit New Agey! I can only report what came to me.
Maybe magma dragons are for real.

Then a voice spoke. And when Ed Walters described it as "grinding
out" he got it spot on. It was slow and deep and male:

"I am he ra. I am chi ra. I am win"

Now I am clear about the first six syllab of Egyptian temples.

Funny how in movies or under hypnosis (no, never for me) people
remember every last word. My mind captured the first eight, then I
was so flabbergasted I lost focus a moment.

Then the drumming continued for some minutes afterwards while I
just continued to drive. I guess I was tired and dazed, but it
never occurred to me that it might have been a UFO trying to
communicate with me. That must sound dumb. It is. (The penny did
not drop until I started ploughing througit appeared - and then he
went to sleep.

I often wonder what I would have seen had I stopped the car and
looked above and behind. I have not let myself wonder what might
have happened had I got out of the car. BTW there was no "lost
time" that night so far as I can tell.

I have strived mightily to make sense of what the UFO - if that
was what it was - said to me. One translation is:

"I am a friendly rhean,
      I am the hand (gift-giving) of Rhea,
                        I am signa and
they are approaching people and offering to beef them up.  And I
blew it.  : )

Lets briefly recall the myths associated with Demeter. Her symbol
was a black triangle. She quartered the world looking for her
missing daughter "Persephone", which seems to mean "fairy say
hearer".  Demeter's "chariot" was in the control of horses and
dragons.

In magic so far as I know a few women get the exotic powers and
they have the responsibility of implementing these powers for the
good of the commuems to be a neat system of checks and balances!

I had a type one communication. I should mention that about a year
earlier a member of my family suddenly started having intense
repetitive dreams in which he is at the 1st floor window of our
home in Millaa Millaa and he is watching a craft with flashing
lights coming drifting up the main streeet in the middle of the
night. It was about then that we both started having all sorts of
low-level paranormal experiences. These were duly reportfor us.

In spiritualism there have been cases where it appears that
entities have been sent from the "other side" to inform a selected
person via a fellow human "spirit medium". Generally they offer a
cluster of information related to the question/s uppermost in the
seeker's mind.

So another spin-off from my trip to Central Oz was a lengthy
communication via spirit medium which detailed the nature,
activity and disposition of what most people would call the local
alien or ET cultures or cnk it is of unrecognized significance. I
believe that one of the exotic agencies that humans are trying to
suss out has gone to a lot of effort to offer an articulate net
human (for all my faults) a straight explanation of what is going
on.

Let me emphasize that this belief is based on observation and
other members of this list are welcome to X-question me with a
view to discovering a simpler explanation.

BTW the source of the type three communication (spirit medium)
made it clear thao religion and that I have reached a stage where
I could not care squat diddley if people believe what I report or
not. It is just unfortunate.

I still hope someone can locate that famous video taken at
Wycliffe Wells. As for any possible connection of all this with
Pine Gap, America's "extraterrestrial status" base near Alice
Springs (south of Wycliffe Wells) - well, that is another story.

All the best.

Lawrie Williams__________







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   Feb > Feb 11

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:29:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:31:07 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:14:38 -0500 (EST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:49:05 +0100
> >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

<snip>

> >Hi Alex,

> >What happens is that some of the people who subscribe to the list
> >don't read all of the data that comes in but just target certain
> >areas. I find this a bit maddening because you have to keep
> >explaining yourself over and over, thereby making yourself look
> >defensive. I've had this happen to me more than a few times and I won't
> >waste my time on it.

> >The guy sez, he saw the thing then took a picture of it. Accept that
> >and move on, other wise you're calling him a liar. If we took that
> >attitude with all of our witnesses, and it got around, where the hell
> >would we be?

> >Don Ledger

> Don,

> I take strong offense to this response of yours. Perhaps it's
> just your need to vent frustration at your attempts at requesting
> information or help from an E-mail list.

Like that's never been done before. It didn't bother you any when
I sent you those Japan sightings. Thanks incidentally for your
stuff.

> Firstly, I am aware of all the circumstances surrounding Alex's
> claim. As I stated, I can only respond to the evidence provided,
> and, in my opinion as a professional photographer, what I see is
> a lens flare and all the incumbent circumstances that cause it.

Saw it where, on a grainy, scanned image?

> I don't have to accept anything, and I am NOT calling Alex a
> liar! Where the hell would we be if we accepted everything?
> Exactly where the state of "ufology" is today, with too many
> people who are already accepting everything at face value.

Nobody suggested you were Drew, but the witnesses take enough
crap as it is. They at least deserve a BIT of an investigation
before being jumped on.

> It has already been suggested by Bob that there may be two
> phenomenon at work. Alex admits at least the possibility that he
> may not have captured what he saw on film.

> I sure hope you used more critical faculties in writing your book
> on the Shag Harbour incident! Otherwise we may have to suffer
> through an account by a fisherman `Jones' who claims he saw pigs
> flying the craft before it hit the water.

> Drew Williamson

Now that's a cheap shot and you know it. Spending four years on
this investigation, and Chris Styles five and a half is hardly
just an account by fisherman Jones watching pigs flying some
craft. Apparently you and others ignored this one when it was
right in your face, even in the Condon report. It appears as well
that you have continued to ignore it if that foolishness is all
you can come up with.

Don Ledger







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                         Re: Communication with UFOs

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:44:07 +1030
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:19:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs


> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 22:59:35 +0000
> From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Communication with UFOs

> > Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:19:05 +1030
> > From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> > To: updates@globalserve.net
> > Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs

> > Hello Bryan.

> > Regarding the clearest  image from the video, I only obtained

> > two frames, and those were purely to show the two boats in
> >the foreground.

> > I was focused on the distant objects, which, at my height above
> > water's surface would have been  5.1 Nautical Miles, or 5.9
> > Statute Miles from my vantage point.  They appeared at the
> > same time on three consecutive evenings.

> > On 26th May  I obtained a different camera, which I have been

> > using ever since, and which gives better focus and general
> > clarity.

> > Maybe, next May, they will reappear, and give me further
> > opportunity to film them.

> > I will let you know if they decide to visit again.   I HAVE
> > asked them.  :-)


> JJ...

> Do you still have the video tape of the event?

OH YES...that is for sure!!!

> I'm not sure I
> understand why you only have two still frames, one which you
> posted, if you took the video?

BECAUSE...at $5.00 per frame video capture, I decided that I
only needed two stills of THIS specific event to use on my
website.

I do not have unlimited funds, and the website has already
consumed many hours of my programmer's time.


> Also...did you have a camera with
> you on the other nights when the objects reappeared?  I guess
> I'm
> asking if there are more photos period :)

The objects appeared on THREE consecutive nights.

May 20th, I briefly saw them on playing back my videotape.
It appeared that, after tracking the movement of a
"conventional ORB" further east, I had panned briefly to the
west and the "bright objects" had shown up.  I did not think
much about them as they were just visible briefly on the tape.

May 21st, the evening in question, I caught sight of these
bright objects, and decided, as they seemed "anomalous, " to
put them on film.

When I got home I reviewed the tape, and saw the "objects."  I
asked my son what he thought they were, and he said that they
looked like reflections on a building in the sunset.

May 22nd, the third evening,  I set up the video camera as on the
previous night, and they kindly showed themselves again.  I did
NOT examine the tape, on returning home, due to extreme fatigue.

Next morning, the 23rd, a friend came round to watch the tapes
whilst we chatted over coffee.  I was in the kitchen when she
called me in to look at the tape more carefully.  It was then
that we saw, more clearly, what had, in actual fact, shown up on
the video tape.

> I believe when we begin gathering multiple photographic evidence
> of single events, then possibly our understanding of these
> objects will be broadened.  A good case in point are the Arizona
> sightings last year.  If the event would have been documented by
> one photo...even perhaps one video...the event which took place
> on March 13, 97 would not be considered a substantial sighting
> in modern ufology.

I didn't  really consider things like "substantial sighting"
when I was going down to the lake, daily from March 22nd to
June 24th.   I was simply going there to hang out, take some vid,
and hopefully catch some of my "friends" on tape.  The normal
round-trip to the lake is approximately 40 miles.   When I visit
the south shore on many days, the drive is a round trip of
100+ miles.

> Photographic and video evidence will not solve the UFO mystery
> alone, it will take collaboration and patience on all fronts...

> ...but visuals always help :)

>cheers
>Bryan!

TRYING......really trying.....BUT, I think that, at the time, I
was just really happy to be there, watching things that, up until
that time, were NOT part of my normal reality.

Best wishes.

JJ








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   Feb > Feb 11

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:45:48 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:21:41 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> From: XELAUFO@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:24:31 EST
> Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> To:updates@globalserve.net

> Hi Everyone,

> I have set up a simple home page and I am posting updates on the
> UFO Sphere/Orb event. There is some new info and 3 more pictures
> of the ORB posted as of now. If any of you sent me a request for
> the story/pics and I missed you, sorry, the email is quite a bit
> to handle, please just email a request to me again or go to the
> home page.

> http://members.aol.com/XELAUFO/index.html

> thank you,

> ALEX CAVALLARI

> New York State Director
> Skywatch International Inc
> KB2NYV Amateur Radio
> XELAUFO@AOL.COM


Alex...

Thank you for posting the account of your sighting on your
website, but it does not answer Bruce's or my question.  Do you
have additional photos of the orb?  By additional photos I mean
ones which are not enhancements of the original one posted to
this list.  You stated in your original report there was more
than one photo of this event...am I mistaken?

The enhancements are interesting, but do not present any
information above what we already know.  The "emboss" enhancement
for example would show the clouds appearing "in front" of the orb
even if it were a lens flare merely for the fact a lens flare
would be translucent...we would see "through" it causing the
clouds to appear overlapping the object.

We can do photo analysis on one photo all day and not be able to
solve or understand anything about the object in question.  With
multiple images of a single event it is possible to gain more
information as to what the object was, or was not.

Also, have you considered the tests both Bob and Bruce suggested?

cheers,
Bryan Butcher
--
_________________
- - - -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dreamsenses: The Home of Being! - http://www.raccoon.com/~bryan
_________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:28:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:40:25 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:31:27 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>>From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>>While it was doing its "thing" I  was trying to capture it on
>>film , I took many pics during this event and never saw any lens
>>flare through my camera . It is not like the orb posed or stood
>>still for me to film it, as soon as I saw it in the camera I took
>>pics, Where it ended up it ended up. I already said that I agree
>>it looks like lens flare but I know it was not. There is probably
>>no way I could prove this even if I had 100 other witnesses , it
>>appears that as long as the so called "experts" voice there
>>opinions that is the final word, well I think the "experts"
>>should start to understand that it is possible for them to make
>>an incorrect assesment of something. If I saw any lens flare
>>through the camera during this I would say so, I do not want
>>false or misleading info to be presented to the ufo community.
>>The orb was very much the color in the pic and I guess it is
>>possible for lens flare and the orb to be close in colors. >

>There are general geometric relations between a light source and
>a flare it might cause in an optical system.  If you have other
>pictures with th orb in different locations they might prove that
>the orb is not a flare. For example, if you have another photo in
>which the sun (?) or light source is to the left and the orb is
>also left of center (the photo you showed has it right of
>center), this might be evidence against a flare. If you have
>several photos with the orb in different locations you might post
>same to help in the "flare analysis"..... which is being treated
>as "independent" of your testimony.


Hello Errol and List,

I doubt you'll publish this one Errol.  In any case, I would like to
state about this Orb/Sphere thing:

        The thinner the thread, the long it gets


Hehehe,

Serge Salvaille,
9:29 AM after deleting a 5K reply









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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:33:08 -1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:33:15 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> Date: Tuesday, February 10, 1998 2:52 AM

> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:30:13 -0500
> From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


> >From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> >Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:52:19 -1000

> BE A SKEPTIC!!!!
> And understand that here you see the workings of an investigation.
> In the ufo "business", since UFOs/ET/Alien Flying Craft(AFC)
> DON'T EXIST acording to the "straight" world, the witness is
> always guilty until proven innocent (because no sane witness
> would report something that is impossible...obviously <g>).

> Alex says he saw saomething.  Then he took a picture of it.

> If you believe Alex....you don't need the picture!  His report is
> goo enough.   If you don't believe his report is accurate (maybe
> he honestly misidentified something.... or maybe he made the
> whole thing up---a hoax), then you have the picture to "prove"
> something was there.... Or was it?

<snip>

Aloha Bruce....

Thank you for your comments.  I agree with them to a point, but
my position is not exactly the way you present it.  First, I
neither dispute Alex's sighting report nor his photograph.  What
I dispute is a tendency, on the part of people who claim to be
investigators, to infer data which cannot be supported by the
evidence. In this case an eyewitness report and a photograph are
the evidence.  Unfortunately, neither the report nor the
photograph are clear and undisputable evidence anything, and
certainly not of the moral and ethical propensities of
extraterrestrials.

This is not an investigation since no one disputes Alex's
sighting report.
This is an exercise in futility.  The object has gone on its
merry way and no matter how much everyone argues about what it
may or may not have been, there is no possible way to know.  Even
if a similar object appears as you read this, you cannot know
whether it is the same object as before or whether it has the
same purpose.  When people start rationalizing evidence instead
of dispassionately looking at the evidence at hand, the
investigation becomes an imagination contest.

Cut to the chase.  I contend that arguing about something that is
not demonstrable one way or the other may be interesting, and may
certainly provoke thought among people who have no idea how to go
about their stated purpose, but is basically pointless.  Let's
develop a focus for all of this.  We can start a foundation, get
some sponsors, and  offer a million dollars to any non-government
entity who can demonstrate clear and unambiguous proof of first
contact.  Then turn the investigators loose on the applicants.
That would give UFOlogy a shot in the arm and generate some good
press for the cause.  And, it would also open up every claim to
public scrutiny. I think I can find the sponsors.  And no, I am
not joking.

Aloha
Tom Burnett







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:00:30 +1030
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:43:46 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:59:45 -0500 (EST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> >>> >As a professional photographer I would like to state categorically
> >>> >that this is a lens flare. Sorry I can only speak to what I see,
> >>> >not any other references to what you saw before or after taking
> >>> the picture.
> >>> >Drew Williamson

> Hi Errol, JJ, and list subscribers,

> I would like to take offense at this UN-scientific and
> obviously biased opinion.

> Jenifer Jarvis is a well-respected and honest skywatcher.


Hi there Steve!!

Thank you kind sir!!!


> She has presented many pics of the "ORBS" and has been
> working with CSETI for several years.

Right now I am working on getting some of this documentation up
on a website, and then interested parties can see for themselves
what it is that I have witnessed.

I am doing occasional "sorties" to the lake, and on January 20th
witnessed 7 submersions (of "orbs")  in a space of 40 minutes. I
am not filming as yet, because my fingers tend to seize up, and
I can't manipulate the camera with gloves on.  Temperatures are
not that bad, but on New Year's Eve, when I saw only ONE "orb,"
just on midnight, the temperature was around   - 20 C.

> My experience with photographing unidentified LITS
> reveal that sometimes even a close-up photo will
> sometimes be blacked out completely. Or will present
> light that looks totally different than that seen with
> naked eye.

I must admit that things seen through the viewfinder sometimes
bear _no_ resemblance to what was seen with the naked eye.  Also,
I find that, on many occasions, I have left the camera "rolling,"
so to speak, and that interesting anomalies have appeared on
replaying the tape.  Things that I _never_ saw with naked eye.

However, this was probably because I was busy chatting with
passers-by or my co-watchers.  :-)

> Skeptical disinformation is not the same as
> scientific proof.

> Steve

I think that, the only thing that we are going to _prove_ is that
there are things around us, above us and below us, about which we
_know_ very little

Very best wishes,

JJ







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:14:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:38:14 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:59:45 -0500 (EST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> Skeptical disinformation is not the same as
> scientific proof.


 > Steve

Well said, Steve.  The big problem with UFOlogy is the question
of just what consitutes scientific proof.  Essentially, we are
dealing with a nonreproducible phenomenon which occasionally
leaves highly ambiguous physical traces.

Photography and videography are, alas,  in this digital age,
unreliable, and are likely to promote much controversial heat,
but little light.  Radar and other 'independent' verification
technologies are also subject to known anomalies which render
them inadequate for pure scientific verification.  Outside of the
physical investigations we conduct (checking weather, flight
trajectories, astronomical and meteorological phenomena, etc.),
the most critical information we receive is (obviously)the
testimony of eyewitnesses.  And unfortunately, this can only be
at best anecdotal.  The character, experience, and psychological
makeup of such witnesses therefore becomes of critical
importance.

My own feeling is that the best any of us can do is to
investigate reports thoroughly and make up our minds as to the
veracity of the witness.  Thus, any corroborating evidence (or,
indeed, evidence to the contrary) must be viewed strictly within
the context of the witnesses character, competence, and
experience.  Such a methodology cannot, in the strictest sense,
be called scientific, but UFOlogists are continually breaking new
ground in philosophy, psychology, and science.  Any 'answers'
undoubtedly lie in the diligent application of methodologies from
all three.

Brian







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   Feb > Feb 12

                        Re: PROJECT-1947: Ed Stewart

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:31:49 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:04:19 -0500
Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947: Ed Stewart

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:37:35 -0800
> From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
> Subject: Ed Stewart
> To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

> Greetings List,

> I talked to Ed today.  Typical Ed, he wanted to leave the
> hospital and go to work in the disaster relief agency.  He cannot
> stand being in the hospital.  He was more worried about his
> mother and his cat than himself.

> He said that he thinks he can walk now and is impatient to get
> out of the hospital.
> --
> Jan Aldrich
> Project 1947
> http://www.iufog.org/project1947/

Way to go, Ed! Get back in the breech, and spit in Death's eye
once again beyond reach. I'm glad that you triumphed, glad that
you're spry, glad you evaded Death's trial or try.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

~~~
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.









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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:52:16 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:33:49 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:59:45 -0500 (EST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Steve Neeley <stneeley@mail.bright.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
> >Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:14:38 -0500 (EST)
> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:49:05 +0100
> >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
> >>To: updates@globalserve.net
> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >>> From: XELAUFO@aol.com [Alex Cavallari]
> >>> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:42:52 EST
> >>> To: updates@globalserve.net
> >>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >>> >From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
> >>> >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:57:24 -0500 (EST)
> >>> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> >>> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >>> >Alex,

> >>> >As a professional photographer I would like to state categorically
> >>> >that this is a lens flare. Sorry I can only speak to what I see,
> >>> >not any other references to what you saw before or after taking
> >>> the picture.

> >>> >Drew Williamson

> Hi Errol, JJ, and list subscribers,

> I would like to take offense at this UN-scientific and
> obviously biased opinion.

> Jenifer Jarvis is a well-respected and honest skywatcher.

> She has presented many pics of the "ORBS" and has been
> working with CSETI for several years.

> My experience with photographing unidentified LITS
> reveal that sometimes even a close-up photo will
> sometimes be blacked out completely. Or will present
> light that looks totally different than that seen with
> naked eye.

> Skeptical disinformation is not the same as
> scientific proof.

> Steve

> Steve Neeley
> Ohio Director
> Skywatch International
> Hardin County Ohio Skywatch &
> Sighter Support
> http://www.geocities.com/soho/5782
> stneeley@bright.net

Hi Steve,

If you will carefully read your threads you will discover that
"JJ" was not involved in the heated discussion that Drew and I
were having on this list. The discussion arose from a picture and
sighting of a UFO in Brooklyn by Alex Cavallari.

It began because I was making a point of people not reading their
email and getting their facts straight before commenting. Seem
familiar:-) Again, this had nothing to do with JJ's sighting,
which I find very interesting and would like more detail on.

Regards,

Don Ledger

PS-You will probably hearing from Drew as well.

Don








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                         Re: Communication with UFOs

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:24:55 +1030
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:26:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs

CORRECTION:

Please note that in a posting I made last
night...I stated that the video camera I
was using was set to a magnification of  X 66.

On the evening of May 21st., 1997, the camera which I
was using had a Power Zoom of  X 8, and I was also using
a Tokina  X 5.5 converter.  Thus,  magnification was only
X 44, and not X 66 as I had previously stated.

On May 26th. I obtained a new camera, with a Power
Zoom of  X 12,   which I have used ever since.

Fatigue takes its toll !!    :-)

JJ

--
Ev'ry breath you take,
Ev'ry move you make,
Ev'ry bond you break
Ev'ry step you take,
I'LL BE WATCHING YOU!!!!

(STING 1983)








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                        Re: PROJECT-1947: Ed Stewart

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:23:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:00:29 -0500
Subject: Re: PROJECT-1947: Ed Stewart


>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:37:35 -0800
>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET>
>Subject: Ed Stewart
>To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>Greetings List,

>I talked to Ed today.  Typical Ed, he wanted to leave the
>hospital and go to work in the disaster relief agency.  He cannot
>stand being in the hospital.  He was more worried about his
>mother and his cat than himself.

>He said that he thinks he can walk now and is impatient to get
>out of the hospital.
>--
>Jan Aldrich
>Project 1947
>http://www.iufog.org/project1947/


Hi Jan.

Thanks for the info.  Tell Ed I am thinking of him and holding
him in my thoughts.

Tell him I hope to hear from him as soon as he feels up to it.

REgards, Mike









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                         Re: Communication with UFOs

From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:05:11 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:50:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs

> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:44:07 +1030
> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Communication with UFOs

> > Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 22:59:35 +0000
> > From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Communication with UFOs

> > JJ...

> > Do you still have the video tape of the event?

> OH YES...that is for sure!!!

> > I'm not sure I
> > understand why you only have two still frames, one which you
> > posted, if you took the video?

> BECAUSE...at $5.00 per frame video capture, I decided that I
> only needed two stills of THIS specific event to use on my
> website.

> I do not have unlimited funds, and the website has already
> consumed many hours of my programmer's time.


I will analyze your video for free.  No charge.  I have the
capability of doing video frame grabbing, and I have webspace
available to make all the grabs, or a good sampling, available to
other parties interested in your sighting.

Interested?

> > Also...did you have a camera with
> > you on the other nights when the objects reappeared?  I guess
> > I'm
> > asking if there are more photos period :)

> The objects appeared on THREE consecutive nights.

> May 20th, I briefly saw them on playing back my videotape.
> It appeared that, after tracking the movement of a
> "conventional ORB" further east, I had panned briefly to the
> west and the "bright objects" had shown up.  I did not think
> much about them as they were just visible briefly on the tape.

I don't understand "conventional orb," could you be more
specific?  How much video do you have of this first orb, the one
you were tracking?

> May 21st, the evening in question, I caught sight of these
> bright objects, and decided, as they seemed "anomalous, " to
> put them on film.

> When I got home I reviewed the tape, and saw the "objects."  I
> asked my son what he thought they were, and he said that they
> looked like reflections on a building in the sunset.

Have you thoroughly checked the shipping traffic.  I remember
someone on this list stated ships reflecting sunlight can
sometimes appear on coastal horizons.  Being a land-locked
Iowan...I have no idea what this looks like, but checking with
the local shipping authorities would be prudent.  If no ships
were present in the area of the sighting, then it's a no brainer
on that particular theory.  I do not question you saw
something....you have it on video...but I don't know if we can
dub it "anomalous" until all possibilities are exhausted.

> May 22nd, the third evening,  I set up the video camera as on the
> previous night, and they kindly showed themselves again.  I did
> NOT examine the tape, on returning home, due to extreme fatigue.

> Next morning, the 23rd, a friend came round to watch the tapes
> whilst we chatted over coffee.  I was in the kitchen when she
> called me in to look at the tape more carefully.  It was then
> that we saw, more clearly, what had, in actual fact, shown up on
> the video tape.

Again I would urge you to make this tape available for an
independent researcher to analyze.  If not myself....someone who
has the observational and technical skills to extract as much
information from it as possible.  If these glowing orbs are a
reality, and you have caught one floating above the water on
film, no matter what your initial intent was...you have entered
the realm of ufology :)

> > I believe when we begin gathering multiple photographic evidence
> > of single events, then possibly our understanding of these
> > objects will be broadened.  A good case in point are the Arizona
> > sightings last year.  If the event would have been documented by
> > one photo...even perhaps one video...the event which took place
> > on March 13, 97 would not be considered a substantial sighting
> > in modern ufology.

<snip>

> TRYING......really trying.....BUT, I think that, at the time, I
> was just really happy to be there, watching things that, up until
> that time, were NOT part of my normal reality.

> Best wishes.

> JJ

We are all trying JJ...and being happy is the ultimate goal...
yes? Perhaps we can be happy with orbs being part of our normal
reality...eh?

cheers,
Bryan!

--
_________________
- - - -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dreamsenses: The Home of Being! - http://www.raccoon.com/~bryan
The Des Moines Astronomical Society - http://www.sciowa.org/~dmas
The Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group - http://www.mufor.org/ares
_________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: werd@interlog.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:50:37 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:25:24 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:29:00 +0100
>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>> From: werd@interlog.com [Drew Williamson]
>> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:14:38 -0500 (EST)
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>> >Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:49:05 +0100
>> >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
>> >To: updates@globalserve.net
>> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

><snip>

>> >Hi Alex,

>> >What happens is that some of the people who subscribe to the list
>> >don't read all of the data that comes in but just target certain
>> >areas. I find this a bit maddening because you have to keep
>> >explaining yourself over and over, thereby making yourself look
>> >defensive. I've had this happen to me more than a few times and I
>> >won't waste my time on it.

>> >The guy sez, he saw the thing then took a picture of it. Accept
>> >that and move on, other wise you're calling him a liar. If we took
>> >that attitude with all of our witnesses, and it got around, where
>> >the hell would we be?

>> >Don Ledger

>> Don,

>> I take strong offense to this response of yours. Perhaps it's
>> just your need to vent frustration at your attempts at requesting
>> information or help from an E-mail list.

>Like that's never been done before. It didn't bother you any when
>I sent you those Japan sightings. Thanks incidentally for your
>stuff.

Sorry, don't remember anything about Japan sightings,...and
you're welcome.

>> Firstly, I am aware of all the circumstances surrounding Alex's
>> claim. As I stated, I can only respond to the evidence provided,
>> and, in my opinion as a professional photographer, what I see is
>> a lens flare and all the incumbent circumstances that cause it.

>Saw it where, on a grainy, scanned image?

Yup! Just like everyone else. The point being that it is of the
right size and position for a lens flare. That is my opinion,
which seems to be dis-allowed by most if it doesn't agree with
what others want to believe.

>> I don't have to accept anything, and I am NOT calling Alex a
>> liar! Where the hell would we be if we accepted everything?
>> Exactly where the state of "ufology" is today, with too many
>> people who are already accepting everything at face value.

>Nobody suggested you were Drew...

To qoute you; "The guy sez, he saw the thing then took a picture of it.
Accept that and move on, other wise you're calling him a liar."

>..., but the witnesses take enough
>crap as it is. They at least deserve a BIT of an investigation
>before being jumped on.

What crap,..who's jumping? I am using my 25+ years experience in
photography in the hopes of answering someones question posted on
this list. If anyone is getting jumped on, its anyone who looks
at prosaic explanations first, before theorizing about
extraterrestrial ones.

>> It has already been suggested by Bob that there may be two
>> phenomenon at work. Alex admits at least the possibility that he
>> may not have captured what he saw on film.

>> I sure hope you used more critical faculties in writing your book
>> on the Shag Harbour incident! Otherwise we may have to suffer
>> through an account by a fisherman `Jones' who claims he saw pigs
>> flying the craft before it hit the water.

>> Drew Williamson

>Now that's a cheap shot and you know it.

So is being called a liar. (see above)

>Spending four years on
>this investigation, and Chris Styles five and a half is hardly
>just an account by fisherman Jones watching pigs flying some
>craft.

I was speculating on the eyewitness testimony that could be
included if you "just accept it and move on," not on the entire
case. Ok, maybe I should have put a smilie face next to it. :-) [
Hynek version, please note the goatee :-7~]

>Apparently you and others ignored this one when it was
>right in your face, even in the Condon report. It appears as well
>that you have continued to ignore it if that foolishness is all
>you can come up with.

Wrong assumption! I did not ignore this case as I hadn't heard of
it until only a few years ago. Ergo, it wasn't in my face.

Digression of this thread can now resume. :>

Drew Williamson










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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:51:13 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:12:57 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

In a message dated 98-02-08 15:34:48 EST, you write:

>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:49:08 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

 >>From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
 >>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:44:15 EST
 >>To: updates@globalserve.net
 >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

(Snip)

>>Alex,

 >>Don't even waste your time responding to people who aren't taking
 >>you seriously and trying to make you look like a hoaxer. How many
 >>times do you have to tell them that you saw it with your eyes? If
 >>people can help you great, but if all they want to do is question
 >>your intelligence then you have to ask yourself, why?

 >>Even if the 'object' was a lens flare, (and I doubt that it was
 >>since you said you saw it with your eyes first) that doesn't
 >>answer Jennifer's question regarding the success of
 >>telepathically communicating with such objects.

>>Joe Murgia


> Joe,

>You misinterpret me.  I have not said, and will not say, that
>Alex didn't see anything.  He very well may have.

>I think he is mistaken in thinking he captured it on film.

>That's a very different thing.

>I've seen many things that I was unable to capture on film, and
>I am a professional photographer.

>I need to hear from Alex what camera he used.  This will make
>it possible to prove that I am wrong and it is not lens flare.

>That would also make it possible to estimate the size of the
>object (very roughly) based on lens focal length.

> Bob

Bob,

Sorry if I lost my temper. I didn't mean to come across so
strongly. However, one of your earlier posts is what pushed
my over the edge. Here is what you wrote with regard to
if Alex captured what he saw, on film.

>Nope,

>Lens flare.  Plain and simple.  The characteristic color
> is a dead give away.

>Put this one in the circular file.

>Bob

How can anybody be so sure of something that they
weren't even present at? You may be right but you may
be wrong. Your response didn't seem to leave open the
possibility of the latter.

Why didn't you write something like this: "Alex, my
experience with cameras and photography lead me
to believe that the object in your photo may very well
be the product of a lens flare. I could be wrong but
that's what it looks like to me. Maybe you missed
the actual orb and got the lens flare instead. Try to
recreate the conditions at the time the photo was
taken and see if lens flare occurs again. Good luck."

I know you wrote something similar in future emails
but the line "Nope. Lens Flare. Plain and Simple."
really made my blood boil and made me think of
the Air Force's cavalier answers at the "recent"
Roswell, Case Closed press conference.

So that's why I responded so strongly to your
post. I hope no offense is taken. I realize you're
trying to get to the truth along with all of us.

Joe








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               Re: 'UFOs & Social Security?' Clinton's Speech

From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:15:50 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:10:39 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFOs & Social Security?' Clinton's Speech

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:39:46
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Keith M. King" <alien2@sound.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'UFOs & Social Security?' Clinton's Speech=
 02-09-98


>Judging by what we know about Mr. Clinton and his probable
>exclusion from the inner 'loop' of individuals housing this kind
>of sensitive material, I would guess that some are probably
>reading too much into this speech.  It is highly unlikely that
>we'll see any Congressional hearings into the phenomenon
>of UFOs under this administration.

>Keith M. King
>M. King Studies

Keith,

You may be right but I don't think so. What evidence is there
that open hearings are "highly unlikely" under the current
administration?

I trust Edgar Mitchell's opinion and this is what he had to
say recently on that matter.

Joe
------------------------------------------

Excerpt from:

Filer's Files, #5-1998, 2-6-98

George A. Filer
MUFON Eastern Director, Skywatch Investigations



ASTRONAUT EDGAR MITCHELL

MUFON's John Thompson writes."By pure coincidence after getting
CSETI's e- mail this morning, urging all to contact their federal
representatives to ask for congressional hearings on UFOs, Dr.
Edgar Mitchell, former moon walker, was on the United
Broadcasting Network (UBN) Radio today. Knowing that he was
involved in Dr. Steven Greer's CSETI effort, I called UBN and was
able to talk to him. He said, Many think that efforts for
Congressional UFO Hearings have gone no where, but the real news
is that behind the scenes many congressional leaders have been
agreeing, that they should take place.

It is Mitchell's belief that Congressional Hearings will take
place and they may be started relatively soon. It was encouraging
to hear this from him and it is clear that he thinks momentum is
still building.

P.S.: I just received another e-mail from Tony Craddock of CSETI
who says "committee chairs" should be contacted and not "local
representatives. Draft up a letter or fax, and send now." Thanks
to John Thompson our former Georgia Director who always does a
great job. He is now our State Section Director.

---------------------------

Sounds impressive to me but maybe I'm naive.

=A0








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:57:27 -1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:47:57 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

----------
> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> Date: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 2:22 AM

To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
updates@globalserve.net
From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:23:31 -1000

<snip>

> >> As you should know, one doesn't divorce a photograph from the
> >> testimony of the eye-witness to the event who took the
> >> photograph.

> >Very well, Jim.  The photographer says that he cannot identify
> >the object as terrestrial or extraterrestrial. Or anything about
> >it.  It might be a lens flare, a wayward monopole, the
> >manifestation of a portion of the dark matter in the universe,
> >or nothing at all.

> OK, Tom, you win!  It was an Unidentified Flitting-around Object.
> (But check those capitalized initials.)

Apparently I got off on the wrong foot with you somehow...I am
not a skeptic.  I have seen several UFOs.  I think it reasonable
to believe that UFOs which manifest characteristics of
intelligent control are intelligently controlled.  I also think
it is both logically and mathematically probable that some, but
not all of the intelligently controlled UFOs which are observed
or recorded are directed by extraterrestrial intelligences.

Where we differ is that I do not believe that every UFO seen by
anyone can be an extraterrestrial craft. I think that pictures of
ducks and airplanes are just pictures of ducks and airplanes, not
UFOs that are trying trying to fool the camera a telepathic
mind-meld.

I am simply saying that pictures of UNIDENTIFIED objects are just
exactly that.  And to start rationalizing the purpose and ethics
of a race (or races) of extraterrestials from a picture of an
UNIDENTIFIED object is
beyond human abilities.

> >> >>and (2) it says something about their strategy
> >> >>or level of ethics in dealing with us, in that they provide a
> >> >>certain measure of deniability to persons who can't accept its
> >> >>reality and who don't mind ignoring certain aspects about the
> >> >>object's description or reported behavior when latching onto that
> >> >>deniability factor.

> >Your logic is starting to wear thin, Jim.  What you are saying,
> >in effect, is that if a skeptic sees a ET craft it will appear to
> >him as an unidentifiable anomaly.  If a non-skeptic is standing
> >next to him and sees the same thing, he will see
> >{...}

<snip>

> The context was that only one person saw (and photographed) it.
> So if you don't change the context, it goes like this:  The
> witness sees it, and he finds it to be unidentified and very
> impressive, and his photograph supports him (although it may
> resemble a lens flare or a meteor or whatever).  Then the skeptic
> learns of it and keeps open the likelihood that it is still
> unidentified, since the object's behavior does not accord with
> what its photograph resembles, and since the witness has
> credibility.  Also, a negative skeptic learns of it, and
> concludes either that the unidentified object is not a "genuine"
> UFO, or that it is the same thing which the photo resembles, even
> though that conflicts with the witness's report on its behavior.

Mr. Spock would die of illogic apoplexy if he read that.  ALL
UFOs are genuine UFOs.  But all UFOs are NOT extraterrestrial.  I
do not dispute Alex Cavallari's report or photograph at all and I
never did.  What I said was that neither his report nor his
picture identify the sighting as anything.  It is an UNIDENTIFIED
object.  You can insist it was a spacecraft all you want, and you
can imagine all sorts of scenarios for why it chose to appear as
a lens flare, but unless you can identify it it is still a UFO.

Really, if the extraterrestrials/UFOs are shape-shifters and have
unlimited telepathic powers, it is difficult to imagine that the
military could ever see one, much less capture it....And if they
did, they certainly could not keep its condition and location
away from others with the same powers who would certainly come to
recover it.

And if they have such remarkable powers, everything we can see or
photograph is meaningless in any case because we can only see and
record what they want to show us.

I think that, while they have advanced mental abilities and
technology, they are not immortal do not possess unlimited
powers.  I think we CAN see and photograph their craft.  And I
think there are probably ways to avoid being abducted and used in
medical experiments.  But I would really like to see people
concentrate a little more on finding out what we don't know and
locating some unambiguous evidence and artifacts than continue to
argue about who is a skeptic and why anyone who does not
immediately accept every photograph of a UFO as an exterrestrial
vehicle should be excommunicated and burned at the stake.

I previously suggested that the UFO community band together, find
some sponsors, and offer a one million dollar reward to any
non-government entity who can demonstrate unequivocal proof of
first contact.  The sponsors can be found easily enough.  I could
find them myself, and so could most of the people who will read
this. It get the issue in the news again (and might keep it there
with updates), but you never know......

Of course, by the time everyone finishes arguing about who gets
to do what, it will never happen....

Aloha
Tom Burnett








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                     Nua Blather: The Glasshouse Effect

From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:29:18 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:55:42 -0500
Subject: Nua Blather: The Glasshouse Effect

*******************************************************************
NUA BLATHER  NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER
Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction,
Forteana and High Weirdness

By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
*******************************************************************
February 13th 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 1. No. 40
*******************************************************************



PUBLIC SERVICE BROADCAST
Before we drag on the wellies and wade into another pool of Blather,
let me bring your wonderous attention to the fire exits, and the new
Blather-Blabber-Chat: A web based discussion board for Blather
subscribers to chew the fat, spit the gravel and feel the tarmacadam.

It's available at http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber/


SIGHTINGS OF SOMETHING
The rather clammy and smelly paged 'Sightings'
(http://www.rapide.co.uk/sight.htm) magazine has in this issue (Vol.
2 Issue 9) an article by one Dermot Butler of IUFORA (Should really
be IUFOPRA, The Irish UFO & Paranormal Research Association),
entitled 'The Wicklow Hotspot', a watered down version of his 'Irish
Case Files Update'
(http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/iufopra/files.shtml).

To be utterly pernickety, 'Sightings' habit of randomly littering
their publication with irrelevant photographs of unidentified
flying objects and wizened grays is less than useful. This is
especially true in the Irish article, as none of the UFOs mentioned
were photographed. The article is a meander through the various
reports from the county of Wicklow, into which the urban sprawl of
Dublin reaches. Unfortunately, it's neither long enough or in-depth
enough to attempt serious analysis of each case. It does however,
give one the impression of that Wicklow is a 'window' area. I don't
dispute this, but it should be noticed that County Wicklow covers an
area of 782 sq. miles (2025 sq. km). Wexford is also mentioned and if
one doesn't cut off the 'window' at the exact county border with
Dublin, but permit it run to the edge of the Dublin mountains where
they sweep down to the city, we have a larger area altogether.

Another Irish UFO group, ICUFOS
(http://freespace.virgin.net/ic.ufos/) mentioned in this column many
times before, claim window areas in Roscommon and Bantry, West Cork.
Blather is rather concerned about this. If this little republic of
ours (http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/nsolo/factbook/ei.htm)
develops any more UFO windows, the damn things will start
overlapping, possibly causing what I propose to label 'The Paranormal
Greenhouse Effect'. If this motion is carried, I might as well
claim to be the first sinner in the glasshouse to start flinging
sceptical lumps of Wicklow granite.


A LETTER FROM SWEDEN
In light of my still-not-having-got my talons on the Roscommon
documents (http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no38.html), Hugh
O'Connor in New South Wales, Australia
(http://www.mpx.com.au/~hugho/index.html) has come up with some
interesting Swedish correspondence regarding the Saab Gripen. The
identity of the correspondent has been kept from me, for obvious
reasons.

        '. . . all the  testflights concerning the plane's performance or
        it's technical devices  are still done by the testpilots from
        SAAB. Some of them are employed by British Aerospace originally,
        but rented out to SAAB if they have  anything to do with the
        Gripen or the 2000.

        'The testpilot, who flew the very first Gripen and the prototype
        of the 2000, happens to be the father of a friend of mine and
        through him I know most of the pilots and the going ons around
        those planes. I haven't asked, but if there had been a deadly
        accident with two  testpilots killed, #### would have surely
        talked about it.
        If not him, #####, the guy from England who's been visiting me
        last week, had been  working on the plane till end of 97, he
        talked to high ranked SAAB  people only on Friday, but he didn't
        mention anything either.  They were surely not testing the plane
        or its performance when they came down.

        'And the Americans must know about the technical things inside it
        already, because a lot of them have been in Linkping all of last
        year and everybody was very hush-hush about the purpose of their
        visit, so it  was not for the commercial planes they came. . .

        'Linkping is such a small place in some ways, if i go to my
        favourite bar, half the people there are from SAAB and the other
        half either from Ericsson or university. . .

        'On Saturday night the guys who would have been sent to make
        inquiries  about the crash from the company were all there.  ..
        at least the ones I know, but they were in good spirits and
        planes coming down usually makes  them gloomy and hectic.'

        So -- we're left none the wiser, really. Blather has emailed
        Saab, and may yet go as far as to phone them.



CANS OF CAECILIANS, KETTLES OF RED HERRINGS
There were plenty of interesting responses to last week's
'Subjectiveness Trap'
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no39.html).


Todd Pellman quite justifiably makes a point:

        'It seems to me that in your discussion of SETI in the previous
        Blather you made a mistake as to the motivating assumption of
        SETI. It is not "If there are other technologically advanced
        cultures, then it is likely that they will be transmitting
        certain radio signals," but instead that "If we receive certain
        radio signals, then it is most likely due to a technologically
        advanced culture."  Pointing out that intelligent life may exist
        without the use of such technology in no way weakens the
        assertion that evidence of such technology implies intelligent
        life.'


Blather would agree, but would assume that in order to propose the
latter theory, one has to consider the former.




Reader Stephen Gallagher, on the chances of another lifeform
utilising radio.

        'If we're talking of life of a 'similar intelligence' to human,
        then it seems very likely that at some stage in their development
        that they would invent radio technology.

        'If they were any way intelligent then I don't think they would
        have made a decision like [deciding that radio was obsolete],
        I can't see how radio is going to go out of fashion any time
        soon.'


Blather stated that 'It's worth realising that our perception of
intelligence is potentially chauvinistic and very subjective -- if it
doesn't seem intelligent to us it's just not intelligent. The
perceived intelligence of another lifeform seems dependent on its
ability to communicate with us'.

To which Stephen responded:

        'So there is no such thing as some absolute measure of
        intelligence? I think we  can be fairly objective in this matter
        with regards to assessing the potential  'intelligence' behind
        something like a radio transmission. If we detect some signal
        that can't be attributed to already known radio sources like
        quasars etc. then we can investigate in more detail whether the
        signal has the necessary complexity to have an intelligent
        source.'

Derek Bell piped up with:

        'About two distinct intelligent species being unable to
        understand each others' language: this is quite plausible if
        Chomsky's linguistics is a good model of what happens in
        intelligent beings. Basically, Chomsky proposes that humans have
        a "meta-grammar" (my term) in our genes that describes the types
        of language that humans can speak/write/whatever. If another
        intelligent species appears with a quite different meta-grammar,
        there may be no common ground for them to communicate! (The two
        meta-grammars having no grammars in common.)'




And Pat Marren:


        'The real test of the feasibility of SETI is, how long is it
        likely to take before some superior civilization beams us an
        order for take-out Chinese?  That, of course, depends upon the
        density of "sun-like stars" in our neighborhood of the galaxy,
        and the probability that each might give rise to civilizations
        with a taste for Chinese food.

        'The earth began emitting a decent amount of human-broadcast
        radio waves about seventy-five years ago.  Assuming the speed of
        light is constant, that means we are at the center of an
        ever-expanding communications shell of a radius of seventy-five
        light years. Assuming further that our alien pals are hungry, and
        therefore prompt about sending out a reply, the "reply" radius is
        currently half of seventy-five light-years, or about 37 light
        years.

        'Carl Sagan states his belief that if one in a million sun-like
        stars foster intelligent life, then there are millions of
        instances of intelligent life in the galaxy.  Now I don't believe
        in UFOs, because if I were a superior being I would not be
        mucking around trailer parks in search of sexual experimentation.
        I'd go right to the center of the action -- the West Wing of the
        White House.  But Sagan was obviously right. There must be
        millions of civilizations-- it's just statistics.

        'So my question as a taxpayer must be, how many sun-like stars
        are there within 37 light years?   And how many sun-like stars is
        our ever-expanding sphere of radio emanations likely to encompass
        before I am out of the taxpayer role and in a trailer park?  A
        million?  If it's a million, then it's worth it.  If it's
        thirty-seven or fifteen, then the hell with it.




Blather reader Al Tepper is conducting a survey on subjectivity for
his masters at http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~tepper/survey.htm and
invites all readers to take part.

Arthur Goldstuck, in South Africa, has named Blather as this week's
Legendary Site of the Week. See the
listing at http://www.web.co.za/arthur/leglist.html and Arthur's
'Legends from a Small Country' site, at
http://www.web.co.za/arthur/welcome.html

ERRATA
No one, other than the fastidiously vigilant Paul (Archeire
http://www.archeire.com) Clerkin spotted the glaring mistake in last
weeks issue, where I appeared to claim that Carl Sagan's book
'Cosmos' was 'the best selling book in the English language'. What
Blather really meant was 'best selling science book'.


Dave (daev) Walsh
13th February 1998



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Blather: http://www.nua.ie/blather - Weekly paranormal meanderings








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 12

             NASA Radar Reveals Hidden Remains at Ancient Angkor

From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:42:43 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:39:10 -0500
Subject: NASA Radar Reveals Hidden Remains at Ancient Angkor

Douglas Isbell
Headquarters, Washington, DC                    February 12, 1998
(Phone: 202/358-1753)

Mary Hardin
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
(Phone: 818/354-0344)

RELEASE: 98-28

NASA RADAR REVEALS HIDDEN REMAINS AT ANCIENT ANGKOR

    New evidence of a prehistoric civilization and remnants of
ancient temples in Angkor, Cambodia, have been discovered by
researchers using highly detailed maps produced with data from an
airborne imaging radar instrument created by NASA.

    Experts say the findings, made possible by the Airborne
Synthetic Aperture Radar (AIRSAR) developed by NASA's Jet
Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA, may revolutionize the
way archaeologists view the ancient city's development.

    Angkor is a vast complex of some 1,000 temples covering about
100 square miles of northern Cambodia.  Little is known of the
prehistoric occupation of this fertile flood plain, but at its
height the city housed an estimated population of one million
people.  The famous temples were built from the eighth to
thirteenth century AD and were accompanied by a massive
hydrological system of reservoirs and canals.  Today, much of the
civilization of Angkor is hidden beneath a dense forest canopy and
is inaccessible due to poor roads, land mines and political
instability.

    "The radar data have enabled us to detect a distribution of
circular 'prehistoric' mounds and undocumented temples far to the
northwest of Angkor," said Dr. Elizabeth Moore, Head of the Art
and Archaeology Department at the School of Oriental and African
Studies at the University of London.  "The site's topography is
highlighted by the radar, focusing our attention on previously
neglected features, some at the very heart of the city.

    "The radar maps not only bring into question traditional
concepts of the urban evolution of Angkor, but reveal evidence of
temples and earlier civilization either absent or incorrect on
modern topographic maps and in early twentieth century
archaeological reports," she said.

    "The radar images make apparent many features that are not
readily identifiable on the ground," said Dr. Anthony Freeman, a
radar scientist at JPL who has collaborated with Moore for the
past three years studying the use of radar on the Angkor site.
"We can see differences in vegetation structure and some features
that are obscured by vegetation cover."

    In December 1997, Moore surveyed a small mound on the
perimeter of the famous 12th century AD temple, Angkor Wat, that
Freeman had first noticed in the radar image.  "Previous
archaeological accounts from 1904 and 1911 note only two temples
and make no mention of the distinct circular form of the mound.
We found four to six temple remains, including pre-Angkorean
structures," Moore said.  "This suggests occupation of the 12th
century site some 300 years earlier, radically changing accepted
chronologies of Angkor."

    Angkor's beauty is seen in its temples, but the greatness of
the Khmer city lies in the multitude of water-related
constructions, according to Moore.  The Khmer kings nominally
dedicated temples to Hindu and Buddhist deities, but the
underlying significance was veneration of ancestral spirits,
ensuring fertility of the land.  Management of water was
essential, both for control during the monsoon rains and
conservation during the dry season and involved the construction
of moats, dikes, canals, tanks, and reservoirs.  The largest of
these reservoirs, dated to the 12th century AD, is five miles long
and its function remains a matter of archaeological debate.

    "These new detailed topographic maps have shown us many more
hydrological features and highlighted how they function in the
rituals and daily life of the Khmer people," Moore explained.

    "Using a technique known as radar interferometry, which
combines two images to create a three-dimensional topographic map,
we can construct a map of the area surrounding Angkor that is more
accurate than most maps we have of the United States," said Dr.
Scott Hensley, a radar engineer at JPL.  "This map lets us see
both natural and human-made water management features at the site
with great clarity."

    "Angkor is situated on the edge of the Tonle Sap lake, a
unique body of water that doubles in size during the rainy season.
These maps give us new insights into the human impact on this
ecosystem, from the ancient Khmer to the present day, and are of
importance in the study of our changing Earth," Freeman continued.

    The Angkor radar images were taken in late 1996 as part of the
AIRSAR Pacific Rim Deployment and were a follow-up to the 1994
study of Angkor with data collected by the Spaceborne Imaging
Radar-C/X-band Synthetic Aperture Radar (SIR-C/X-SAR) that flew on
NASA's Space Shuttle Endeavour.

    Like SIR-C/X-SAR, AIRSAR transmits and receives three radar
frequencies in both horizontal and vertical polarizations.  While
both systems use C-band and L-band wavelengths, AIRSAR has the
added benefit of P-band, a longer wavelength that can penetrate
below the forest canopy.  In addition, AIRSAR can be flown in a
mode called TOPSAR that allows it to measure topography and create
three-dimensional images of the surface.

    AIRSAR images of the Angkor region will be posted to the
Internet at this address:

            http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/

    AIRSAR flies on a NASA DC-8 aircraft that is managed at NASA's
Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA.  The AIRSAR instrument
is managed by JPL, a division of the California Institute of
Technology, for NASA's Office of Earth Science, Washington, DC.
This office manages NASA's Earth Science enterprise, an
internationally coordinated effort to study natural and human-
induced changes in the Earth's land, oceans, atmosphere, ice and
life.

    The AIRSAR flight over Cambodia was funded by the Government
of Thailand.  Ground verification has been made possible by Vann
Molyvann, Minister of State for Culture and Fine Arts, Territorial
Management, Urban Planning and Construction; and Dr. Ang Choul=8Ean
of the Cambodian Authority for the Protection and Management of
Angkor and the Region of Siem Reap.

                       -end-








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 13

                The Next Step [was: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'...]

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:09:52 +1030
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:24:58 -0500
Subject: The Next Step [was: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'...]

>From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:57:27 -1000


Hi there Tom !!!!

You have made some very interesting comments in your recent
posting re. UFO/SPHERE/ORB thread.

>And if they have such remarkable powers, everything we can see
>or photograph is meaningless in any case because we can only see
>and record what they want to show us.

Your last phrase there, in my opinion, is _very_ important.

I was "skywatching" for ages and ages, to _no_ avail, and then,
suddenly, I was given the opportunity to made visual
documentation.  I believe that all this is on 'their' time-table,
_not_ ours!!!

>I think we CAN see and photograph their craft.

_That_ is for sure!!!!!

>Of course, by the time everyone finishes arguing about who gets
>to do what, it will never happen....

Have no fear!!!  _if_ this is all on "their" schedule, then all
we need do is hang in there and enjoy the ride.

In a few years' time, this will all be "history!!!!!!!!"

Best wishes.

JJ



--
Ev'ry breath you take,
Ev'ry move you make,
Ev'ry bond you break
Ev'ry step you take,
I'LL BE WATCHING YOU!!!!

(STING 1983)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 13

                         Re: Communication with UFOs

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:24:56 +1030
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:41:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs


> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:05:11 +0000
> From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Communication with UFOs

> > > JJ...

> > > Do you still have the video tape of the event?

> > OH YES...that is for sure!!!

> > > I'm not sure I
> > > understand why you only have two still frames, one which you
> > > posted, if you took the video?

> > BECAUSE...at $5.00 per frame video capture, I decided that I
> > only needed two stills of THIS specific event to use on my
> > website.

> > I do not have unlimited funds, and the website has already
> > consumed many hours of my programmer's time.

> I will analyze your video for free.  No charge.  I have the
> capability of doing video frame grabbing, and I have webspace
> available to make all the grabs, or a good sampling, available to
> other parties interested in your sighting.

> Interested?

It is very kind of you to make that offer.

However, as I do not allow these "babies" out of my sight,
I would have to come along with them!!!!!!!!!!  :-)

> > > Also...did you have a camera with
> > > you on the other nights when the objects reappeared?
> > > I guess I'm asking if there are more photos period :)

> > The objects appeared on _three_ consecutive nights.

> > May 20th, I briefly saw them on playing back my videotape.
> > It appeared that, after tracking the movement of a
> > "conventional ORB" further east, I had panned briefly to the
> > west and the "bright objects" had shown up.  I did not think
> > much about them as they were just visible briefly on the tape.

> I don't understand "conventional orb," could you be more
> specific?  How much video do you have of this first orb, the one
> you were tracking?

Aha!!!  "Conventional orb!!!"  Well..... in a few hours,
perhaps you would like to read my reports of my Orbwatching!!!???
Website should be up and running very shortly, and that will give
you an idea of the type of objects I was looking at last year.

> > May 21st, the evening in question, I caught sight of these
> > bright objects, and decided, as they seemed "anomalous, " to
> > put them on film.

> > When I got home I reviewed the tape, and saw the "objects."  I
> > asked my son what he thought they were, and he said that they
> > looked like reflections on a building in the sunset.

> Have you thoroughly checked the shipping traffic.

  _Yes_.

>  I remember
> someone on this list stated ships reflecting sunlight can
> sometimes appear on coastal horizons.

Absolutely!!! I have studied the shipping traffic ad nauseam.
Also, checked the shipping schedules out of the different
harbours.

> Being a land-locked
> Iowan...I have no idea what this looks like, but checking with
> the local shipping authorities would be prudent.  If no ships
> were present in the area of the sighting, then it's a no brainer
> on that particular theory.  I do not question you saw
> something....you have it on video...but I don't know if we can
> dub it "anomalous" until all possibilities are exhausted.

Well... the bright objects appeared at identical times, so,
admittedly, they _could_  be regular shipping. _However_,  my video
indicates clockwise rotation and a large reddish "field" below
the "objects."

The rotation would possibly indicate that these were not regular
"lakers."

ALSO, pixel count on the vid showed _no_ linear movement as such.
Regular shipping would normally _move_ across the lake's surface,
and _not_ rotate.

> > May 22nd, the third evening,  I set up the video camera as on the
> > previous night, and they kindly showed themselves again.  I did
> > NOT examine the tape, on returning home, due to extreme fatigue.

> > Next morning, the 23rd, a friend came round to watch the tapes
> > whilst we chatted over coffee.  I was in the kitchen when she
> > called me in to look at the tape more carefully.  It was then
> > that we saw, more clearly, what had, in actual fact, shown up on
> > the video tape.

> Again I would urge you to make this tape available for an
> independent researcher to analyze.  If not myself....someone who
> has the observational and technical skills to extract as much
> information from it as possible.  If these glowing orbs are a
> reality, and you have caught one floating above the water on
> film, no matter what your initial intent was...you have entered
> the realm of ufology :)

Aha.......that is true!!!!!  I _do_ believe I may have entered
the realm of Ufology!!!!

> > > I believe when we begin gathering multiple photographic evidence
> > > of single events, then possibly our understanding of these
> > > objects will be broadened.  A good case in point are the Arizona
> > > sightings last year.  If the event would have been documented by
> > > one photo...even perhaps one video...the event which took place
> > > on March 13, 97 would not be considered a substantial sighting
> > > in modern ufology.

> <snip>

> > TRYING......really trying.....BUT, I think that, at the time, I
> > was just really happy to be there, watching things that, up until
> > that time, were NOT part of my normal reality.

> > Best wishes.

> > JJ

> We are all trying JJ...and being happy is the ultimate goal...
> yes? Perhaps we can be happy with orbs being part of our normal
> reality...eh?

I love the Orbs being part of my reality.  I have no FEAR or
negative feelings about these Boys.  As far as I am concerned,
they are just more people who are, or might be, one day,  friends
or neighbours.

> cheers,
> Bryan!

Thanks for your very pleasant postings!!!

JJ








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 14

                              Re: The Next Step

From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:10:16 -1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:28:00 -0500
Subject: Re: The Next Step


> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: The Next Step [was: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'...]
> Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 3:24 AM

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:09:52 +1030
> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> >Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:57:27 -1000

> Hi there Tom !!!!

> You have made some very interesting comments in your recent
> posting re. UFO/SPHERE/ORB thread.

> >And if they have such remarkable powers, everything we can see
> >or photograph is meaningless in any case because we can only see
> >and record what they want to show us.

> Your last phrase there, in my opinion, is _very_ important.

> I was "skywatching" for ages and ages, to _no_ avail, and then,
> suddenly, I was given the opportunity to made visual
> documentation.  I believe that all this is on 'their' time-table,
> _not_ ours!!!

> >I think we CAN see and photograph their craft.

> _That_ is for sure!!!!!

> >Of course, by the time everyone finishes arguing about who gets
> >to do what, it will never happen....

> Have no fear!!!  _if_ this is all on "their" schedule, then all
> we need do is hang in there and enjoy the ride.

> In a few years' time, this will all be "history!!!!!!!!"

> Best wishes.

> JJ

Aloha JJ....:)

Thank you for your nice comments.  I agree with you.  This thread
started when someone decided that judgements concerning the
morality and ethics of a race of ETs could be made from an
unidentifiable still photograph.  I disagreed with that, and
still do, and suddenly I became a skeptic and started getting
flame mail.

All I want people to do is think with their minds instead of
their emotions.  I don't think that is unreasonable, but you
would be surprised at the number of people who do.

I think that ufology should be treated as a science and not a
religion but sometimes it is hard to separate the two.

Albert Einstein had no proof of the General Theory of Relativity
for several years and science refused to accept it until it was
proven in the lensing experiment.  Even so, it is still not
perfect because it is becoming pretty clear that the speed of
light can be exceeded....or at least bypassed. We have been
taking the unproven parts on faith all these years.  So...is it
science, or religion?

Tom Burnett








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 14

                Quinte Aerial Phenomenon Research Association

From: Sean Liddle <@nul.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:06:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:55:38 -0500
Subject: Quinte Aerial Phenomenon Research Association

Hello there Everyone:

Well, I have been reading the UpDates for a little while now and
find them quite interesting, even though the occasional bit of
conjecture is a tad umm, shall we say, fringe..

I represent QAPRA, the Quinte Aerial Phenomenon Research
Association [Ontario, Canada].  We have been defunct for a few
years now due to some problems we had to deal with regarding some
unsavoury members who did some BAD things using our name.. Well,
they have been purged from the membership, and most peoples
memory, so we are back..

We are again, trying to compile as much data on Quinte Area
sightings and other phenomena.  The Quinte Region ranging from
Kingston to Port Hope, and including Prince Edward County, and as
far north as Bancroft (this being Ontario Canada)..

If your have any sightings information, either current or
historical, please feel free to send details to:

Gorthos@technologist.com

Our web site will be up shortly..

Yours Truly

Sean Liddle
President, QAPRA









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                              MPD and Abduction

From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker]
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:47:36 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:11:19 -0500
Subject: MPD and Abduction

This is an excellent book on MPD.  (Everything I have read from
this author has been.)

THE OSIRIS COMPLEX: Case studies in Multiple Personality Disorder
by Colin A. Ross, MD. (1994).

The following is from Chapter 14: Flash the Destroyer.

Margaret is the patient.  And according to Dr. Ross, the only one
he has worked with who has achieved full integration and who has
gone on to a complete relapse of the MPD. P 144.


p148: Margaret's system contained several alters who appeared to
be psychotic...

   There was always doubt about the reality of the stories
Margaret told.  For instance, one of her alters had a clear
memory of aliens coming into her apartment, impregnating her,
coming back months later to remove the foetus, the returning
years later to show her the half-human, half-alien, child they
were raising among the stars.  This alter was morified when I
raised the possibility  that the aliens were possibly not
literally real: she said I had ruined the therapy and her
chances of recovery forever by doubting her.

  Margaret made this claim before I had heard about the current
epidemic of UFO abductions. I did not realize, when I heard
Margaret's story that thousands of people in North America have
similar memories. Many of these people probably have complex
dissociative disorders, but many appear to be otherwise
normal....

---

I dont remember which,  but it was either Jacobs or Mack who said
that they had never heard of, nor had a case of MPD associated
with abduction. Well...here it is.


BB








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                  UFO Video on Channel 7 News, ABC New York

From: Xxyyxx@aol.com [Dave Bauer]
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:22:16 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:32:00 -0500
Subject: UFO Video on Channel 7 News, ABC New York


Local news New York City, Channel 7 at 17:50, aired 30 seconds of
a 45 min. video from Kentucky of an 'Orb' type UFO.

The video was recorded several months ago and released today by
person who shot it.

This report was objective for a major network.

Dave Bauer









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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:59:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:51:10 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:14:37 -0500

>> Skeptical disinformation is not the same as
>> scientific proof.

>Well said, Steve.  The big problem with UFOlogy is the question
>of just what consitutes scientific proof.  Essentially, we are
>dealing with a nonreproducible phenomenon which occasionally
>leaves highly ambiguous physical traces.

<snip>

>My own feeling is that the best any of us can do is to
>investigate reports thoroughly and make up our minds as to the
>veracity of the witness.  Thus, any corroborating evidence (or,
>indeed, evidence to the contrary) must be viewed strictly within
>the context of the witnesses character, competence, and
>experience.  Such a methodology cannot, in the strictest sense,
>be called scientific, but UFOlogists are continually breaking new
>ground in philosophy, psychology, and science.  Any 'answers'
>undoubtedly lie in the diligent application of methodologies from
>all three.

There _is_ science in ufology.... although it is not always
obvious. However, to see wat I mean, consider the "reverse
situation."

The conventional/straight world accepts the idea that there are
no UFOs.  Therefore each sigting must be explainable.  Therefore
there is an explanation for each sighting.  When a sighting comes
along one or more skeptics comes up with an explanation for the
sighting.  "It was Venus.... it was Mars.... it was an
airplane... it was a balloon..." ... whatever, depending upon the
sighting.

However, rarely _if_ever_ does a skeptic "test" the explanation'
against the available sighting data.  Instead, what usually
happens is that the skeptic finds an explanation for one part of
th sghting and then "publishes"  (I can cite specific examples in
my own experience if anyone is interested.) The general
public/press/scientific community  then assmes the sighting has
been explained and goes on its merry way.

So where does the science come in?  In making the best comparison
possible between the suggested explanation or explanations and
the sighting data.   This is because ANY EXPLANATION MUST BE
BASED ON KNOWN PHENOMENA (no point in explaining one unknown with
another unknown)..... and known phenomena have definite
characteristics that can be compared with the characteristics of
the unknown described in th sighting.  If the characteristics of
the known match the characteristics of the unknown then one may
as well accept the explanation... or at the very least one can't
use the sighting as evidence of th unknown (if it walks like a
duck.... etc.)

Where skeptics often go wrong is in failing to make this check of
the explanation against the data.   VERY OFTEN THE SKEPTICS
AREN'T SCIENTIFIC!!!

(I know... cry Heresy!.... and burn me at the stake!)

Of course, the best one can get out of this line of reasoning is
a form of proof that the sighting is either explainable,
indeterminate (not enough data one way or another) or actually
unexplainable.  There are plenty of cases I can cite where the
skeptics' explanations don't work.  This means plenty of cases
which appear to be unexplainable.... Kenneth Arnold, for example
(which was a subject of a ling discussion last fall).

Where ufology goes awry is (a) in the tendency to be uncritical
and claim a sighting to be unexplainable even when one or more
valid explanations exists and (b) to take a supposedly
unexplainable sighting and extrapolate beyond the available
information to theories of who, where from, why, etc.  Such
theorizing is NECESSARY.... but one shouldn't narrow down to a
particular theory unless the data clearly warrant it.








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:03:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:18:59 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> From: werd@interlog.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:50:37 -0500 (EST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:29:00 +0100
> >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

Snipped the other stuff as being dealt with.

> So is being called a liar. (see above)

Not by I sir.

> Wrong assumption! I did not ignore this case as I hadn't heard of
> it until only a few years ago. Ergo, it wasn't in my face.

Now it is. So there :-) Our fault for not bringing it to your
attention

> Digression of this thread can now resume. :>

> Drew Williamson

Well now it can. :-)

Don







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             Scott Catamas - Notes From The Prophets Conference

From: prophets@maui.net
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:48:19 -1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:43:47 -0500
Subject: Scott Catamas - Notes From The Prophets Conference

_____________________________________________

Scott Catamas - Notes From The Prophets Conference
October 10-12, 1997

Scott Catamas moderated the "Contact" panel:  an exceptional
exploration made by some exceptional people.  His panel summation
remarks are as follows:

_____________________________________________

"I'd like to take a moment to build on what is being said here,
and that is: We are all on a journey of discovery.  I personally
believe that this a dream world and that each of us is here to
learn to love; we're here to learn to expand.

"Quite often when we have events take place in our lives -
whether it's an individual event, a mutual experience, a personal
contact, an interdimensional contact, an abduction, or even a
greater group experience such as the Phoenix Lights -  it's an
archetypal event, and archetypal events are always designed in
such a way as to expand our consciousness. You'll also notice
that archetypal events take place in such a way that you never
really know the truth.

"We really don't know, absolutely and positively, what happened
2,000 years ago, so that each of us can determine who Jesus was
or wasn't, and if he lived, and if he resurrected.  In fact, if
you even look at some of the archetypal events of our lifetime,
they are still played out in such a way so that you really don't
know.  We all have pretty strong opinions, but nobody in this
room really knows whether or not O.J. did it.  Nobody in this
room really knows what the story is about the JFK assassination.
There is a lot of difference, strong opinions, strong beliefs,
and you can find tremendous evidence to support any number of
those beliefs.  It ultimately comes back to us.  What do I
believe?  Why do I believe O.J. did or didn't do it?  Why do I
believe that the CIA killed Kennedy, or that Oswald acted alone,
or whatever I might believe?

"It's an opportunity to explore belief systems; to explore why we
think the way we do, and hopefully to continue to expand.
Because, as we get older we realize that the world and the
universe are much larger than we could possibly comprehend.
There are many, many different realities, and perhaps it's all
about opening our hearts and having compassion for each other and
allowing all of us to live in different realities in a loving
way."
________________________________________________

Scott Catamas is executive producer of the new television program
- NEW EARTH NEWS, scheduled to be broadcast nationally featuring
reports on paranormal and metaphysical happenings from all over
the world.  Scott has won multiple EMMY awards as a writer and
producer, as well as several national awards for excellence. He
has written and/or produced over 100 original stage and
television shows. Most recently, Scott has been active in
paranormal programming for television. He worked on NBC's THE
OTHER SIDE, HBO's REEL SEX, UPN's THE PARANORMAL BORDERLINE, and
most recently he was producer for STRANGE UNIVERSE and LOOKING
BEYOND.  Scott's insights about the UFO and paranormal
experiences he has captured on tape are thought provoking and
highly informative. He offers a unique and positive vision of the
planetary transformation taking place that is filled with grace
and good spirit.
_________________________________________________

'Contact' panelist highest web search results:

Scott Catamas  http://www.newearthnews.com
Robert O. Dean  http://www.rtd.com/~stargate/stargate.html
Dr. Edgar Mitchell  http://www.tcom.co.uk/hpnet/mitchell.htm
Dr. Steven Greer http://www.cseti.org/
Bill Hamilton  http://members.aol.com/billh46088/bio.htm
Jim Dilettoso  http://www.ufomind.com/people/d/dilettoso
Ted Loman  http://www..sisna.com/ufoaz/

==========================================

Audio Cassettes:  http://www.aloha.net/~axiom/tapes.html
All Of -  Notes From The Prophets Conferences:
http://www.aloha.net/~axiom/notes.html
The Prophets Conferences - Created by Axiom/ G. Cody Johnson
Axiom - http://www.aloha.net/~axiom/
Subscribe or Unsubscribe List:  prophets@maui.net











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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:59:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:58:11 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:33:08 -1000

<snip>

>Thank you for your comments.  I agree with them to a point, but
>my position is not exactly the way you present it.  First, I
>neither dispute Alex's sighting report nor his photograph.  What
>I dispute is a tendency, on the part of people who claim to be
i>nvestigators, to infer data which cannot be supported by the
>evidence. In this case an eyewitness report and a photograph are
t>he evidence.  Unfortunately, neither the report nor the
>photograph are clear and undisputable evidence anything, and
>certainly not of the moral and ethical propensities of
>extraterrestrials.


I would certainly agree that one cannot infer moral and ethical
propensities of ET's from the sighting and photo alone. (If one
had a priori knowledge about ET morals and ethics then one might
be able to use determinet whether or not the sighting and photo
were in some way consistent or inconsistent with the ethics and
morals.   But since we have no such a priori knowledge the
sighting can do no more than establish that some UNKNOWN
PHENOMENON - possibly ET - was or was not present at th time of
the sighting.)

>This is not an investigation since no one disputes Alex's
>sighting report.

Well.................................................,

I suppose that if everyone accepted the report entirely "as
written" then the only argument would be over the interpretation.
But an "investigation" to determine details of the reports could
be needed to make the correct interpretation.

>This is an exercise in futility.

On a larger scale perhaps.... since the rest of the world
probably won't notice this any more than it notices numerous
other more spectacular sightings.  Futile because we already have
THOUSANDS of sightings..... do we need another?

On the other hand, if the "investigation" establish that the
UNKNOWN REALLY DID OCCUR (the sighting is inexplicable), then we
can perhaps use the information in this sighting to help clarify
whatever th nature of teh phenomenon is (OK, for you true
believers, the information might provide some insight into what
"they" are doing here.   On the other hand it might provide no
such information.  But you can't tell which without the
"investgation." or analysis.)

> The object has gone on its
>merry way and no matter how much everyone argues about what it
>may or may not have been, there is no possible way to know.  Even
>if a similar object appears as you read this, you cannot know
>whether it is the same object as before or whether it has the
>same purpose.  When people start rationalizing evidence instead
>of dispassionately looking at the evidence at hand, the
>investigation becomes an imagination contest.

Yes.

Theories are needed to understand data... but theories which
"excuse" data are not very useful.   The data (sighting, photo)
are real.  They mean something.   When one tries to compare the
data to a preferred theory, one is usually or at least often,
confronted with inconsistencies.   Some of these may be excusable
(bad data points, etc.)... but when excuses go off the deep
end.... it is time to stop theorizing and go back for another
look at the data or.... admit defeat!  (The data can't be
understood.)

> Let's
>develop a focus for all of this.  We can start a foundation, get
>some sponsors, and  offer a million dollars to any non-government
>entity who can demonstrate clear and unambiguous proof of first
>contact.  Then turn the investigators loose on the applicants.
>That would give UFOlogy a shot in the arm and generate some good
>press for the cause.  And, it would also open up every claim to
>public scrutiny. I think I can find the sponsors.  And no, I am
>not joking.

Not joking, eh?  Something like this has been tried in th past.
In the 1970's the National Enquirer offered a megabuck, if I
recall correctly, for indisputable proof.   They also offered
$50K per year... or some such sum.... for the best sighting of
the year as determined by an independent panel.  There have been
other offers (seems to me a British liquor company..also had an
offer years ago).  This is not the same as a foundation, but the
incentive was there.   And the Enquirer got lots of entries into
the contest... but no big winner (did have annual winners, but
none of these was considered conclusive).

Of course a well funded foundation could provide another shot in
the arm.  The conditions aren't the same as they were 20 years
ago BCE4  (Before Close Encounters of the 4th Kind). I suspect
there would now be more entries with potentially better data
(multiple witness, video recorded, etc.).

And of course, it is my duty as former chairman of the Fund for
UFO Research to say that if you are aware of major sources of
funding... contact me directly..







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                           BWW Media Alert 980213

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:02:15 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:04:32 -0500
Subject: BWW Media Alert 980213

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).
February 13, 1998

Apparently recovered from the El Nino damage, back to work :) !  Oh, two brief
things...I've heard from a FATE subscriber who read (and appreciated) my
article in the newest issue (it's the fiftieth anniversary issue)...you might
keep your eye open for that; and Alexander Imich, a philanthropist of the
paranormal, has asked me for contact information for television and radio
producers of paranormal shows.  If you are one, have such information, or may
have gotten my PARANORMAL PROGRAMMING listing in the past (which is presently
unavailable), I'd appreciate any information you can pass along.

On to the (slim) listings this week!  I may expand them more later...

TELEVISION

A&E
Sunday, February 15, 2:00 PM, THE UNEXPLAINED: CIA PSYCHICS

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL
Saturday, February 14, 2:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE:
STRANGE POWERS OF ANIMALS
Sunday, February 15, 6:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: GHOSTS,
APPARITIONS, AND HAUNTED HOUSES
Thursday, February 19, 9:00 PM (repeated Friday at 1:00 AM), STRANGE BUT TRUE:
psychic dogs and "strange lights" in England

PBS
NOVA (times vary), SECRETS OF THE PSYCHICS, featuring arch debunker, James
"The Amazing" Randi

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"

____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.
______________________________

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books</
A>
I'm very excited about this!  Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and
 it has always been a love of mine.  I get asked often to recommend
books(I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I
can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time!  This is
being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding
reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability,
service, savings, and security.  If there is any specific book you want (or
topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research
and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you
want).  I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more
efficient for you.  If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title
on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point!  You may, but the
option is yours.







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #223

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 05:08:19 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:28:05 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #223

Apology to MW #223 (For February 14, 1998)

Your girl or your son or your wife or your mom -- or even dear
trusted old dad. But someone you trusted for balance, you know;
one whose foundations weren't bad. Someone whose flag really went
to the top; _you_ thought that their suitcase was full. No bats
in their belfries, their bottles were corked; they were with-it
and centered and cool.

And they don't watch the telly, and they've been to good schools,
the X-files, and star treks are fun but thought silly. They are
solid, substantial, and worthy of trust; they are honest,
forthcoming, and quite often brilliant.

You have years with these people, and they stood to be counted;
they were covered, and focused, and current. They'd been there
when needed, never talk of impeachment -- goodness =85 efficacious,
and recurrent. Cliched, I report they were salt of the earth,
proud pillars of community -- they are kind and they're smart,
and all have good hearts -- =85Then -- <disjunct =85> (slow despair
(?)) =85 And, a _new_ continuity.

Oh, they're still the same, not to blame (not insane) -- they're
undamaged, they're together, they're OK. Embarrassed, ashamed,
and taking the blame, they can still fill the bill, write the
check -- save the day! They're the same, don't complain, but the
fact still remains the reports that they make -- the results of
their claims=85 !!!

They say =85that they're taken away in huge ships; they say that
they're prodded and poked and then stripped. Then they're probed
to emission, examined it seems, and it matters, or not, how they
reason or scream.

They make this *vast* admission while they look down on the
ground apologetic and consoling that indeed =85 it all went down.
Then they look into your eyes, and you can see what they've been
seeing, and you wonder what the future holds for wretched human
beings.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Horatio really didn't have a clue, did he? There really _was_
more to heaven and Earth than was contained in a pitiably
incomplete philosophy, wasn't there? We truly miss a boat when we
turn from these people, don't we?

They may be preceding us into some new real time paradigm, and we
should be giving them some open minded attention.

~~~~

I was raised on the chicken little story -- you know, the one
where a baby chicken gets hit on the head with an acorn, and then
panics the farm community to some kind of catastrophe and
disaster with the false warning that the "sky is falling."

I thought that the moral was to keep your mouth shut regarding
what's outside your experience, the consequences of inciting a
panic, and that your fears are likely so much bullshit, anyway =85
but I've come to believe that it means more than that. It means
one must take pains to be sure, somehow, that there is in fact
some problem with the sky, and then discover the answer to a more
difficult, underlying, and basic question =85  how does one make a
_credible_ warning if the sky really _is_ falling?

Free John Ford.

~~~
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake, perhaps an experiencer.








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                              Re: The Next Step

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:18:21 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:36:01 -0500
Subject: Re: The Next Step

> From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
> To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Next Step
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:10:16 -1000

> > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > To: updates@globalserve.net
> > Subject: UFO UpDate: The Next Step [was: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'...]
> > Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 3:24 AM

> > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:09:52 +1030
> > From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> > To: updates@globalserve.net
> > Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> > >From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
> > >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> > >Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:57:27 -1000

> Albert Einstein had no proof of the General Theory of Relativity
> for several years and science refused to accept it until it was
> proven in the lensing experiment.  Even so, it is still not
> perfect because it is becoming pretty clear that the speed of
> light can be exceeded....or at least bypassed. We have been
> taking the unproven parts on faith all these years.  So...is it
> science, or religion?

For my money I'll read eclectically, make up my own mind =96 then
nuke the spot from orbit, =85the only way to be sure <g>.  That=92s
right science worshipers =96 respect your tool box, use your tool
box, even expand the capability of your tool box -- but build no
shrines to it, as they become so god-damned hard to tear down,
later!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

~~~

Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake.









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              NASA News: Voyager Most Distant Human-Made Object

From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:01:49 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:38:02 -0500
Subject: NASA News: Voyager Most Distant Human-Made Object

Donald Savage
Headquarters, Washington, DC                   February 13, 1998
(Phone:  202/358-1547)

Mary Hardin
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
(Phone:  818/354-0344)

RELEASE:  98-30

VOYAGER 1 NOW MOST DISTANT HUMAN-MADE OBJECT IN SPACE

        In a dark, cold, vacant neighborhood near the very edge of
our Solar System, the Voyager 1 spacecraft is set to break another
record and become the explorer that has traveled farthest from home.

        At approximately 5:10 p.m. EST on Feb. 17, 1998, Voyager 1,
launched more than two decades ago, will cruise beyond the
Pioneer 10 spacecraft and become the most distant human-created
object in space, at 6.5 billion miles (10.4 billion kilometers)
from Earth.  The two are headed in almost opposite directions away
from the Sun.

         "For 25 years, the Pioneer 10 spacecraft led the way,
pressing the frontiers of exploration, and now the baton is being
passed from Pioneer 10 to Voyager 1 to continue exploring where no
one has gone before," said Dr. Edward C. Stone, Voyager project
scientist and Director of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL),
Pasadena, CA.

        "At almost 70 times farther from the Sun than the Earth,
Voyager 1 is at the very edge of the Solar System.  The Sun there
is only 1/5,000th as bright as here on Earth, so it is extremely
cold, and there is very little solar energy to keep the spacecraft
warm or to provide electrical power.  The reason we can continue
to operate at such great distances from the Sun is because we have
radioisotope thermal electric generators (RTGs) on the spacecraft
that create electricity and keep the spacecraft operating," Stone
said.  "The fact that the spacecraft is still returning data is a
remarkable technical achievement."

         Voyager 1 was launched from Cape Canaveral on Sept. 5,
1977.  The spacecraft encountered Jupiter on March 5, 1979, and
Saturn on Nov. 12, 1980.

       Then, because its trajectory was designed to fly close to
Saturn's large moon Titan, Voyager 1's path was bent northward by
Saturn's gravity, sending the spacecraft out of the ecliptic plane
-- the plane in which all the planets except Pluto orbit the Sun.

        Launched on March 2, 1972, the Pioneer 10 mission
officially ended on March 31, 1997.  However, NASA's Ames Research
Center, Moffett Field, CA, intermittently receives science data
from Pioneer as part of a training program for flight controllers
of the Lunar Prospector spacecraft now orbiting the Moon.

        "The Voyager mission today presents an unequalled
technical challenge.  The spacecraft are now so far from home that
it takes nine hours and 36 minutes for a radio signal traveling at
the speed of light to reach Earth," said Ed B. Massey, project
manager for the Voyager Interstellar Mission at JPL.  "That
signal, produced by a 20 watt radio transmitter, is so faint that
the amount of power reaching our antennas is 20 billion times
smaller than the power of a digital watch battery."

         Having completed their planetary explorations, Voyager 1
and its twin, Voyager 2, are studying the environment of space in
the outer Solar System.  Although beyond the orbits of all the
planets, the spacecraft still are well within the boundary of the
Sun's magnetic field, called the heliosphere.  Science instruments
on both spacecraft sense signals that scientists believe are
coming from the outermost edge of the heliosphere, known as the
heliopause.

         The heliosphere results from the Sun's emitting a steady
flow of electrically charged particles called the solar wind.  As
the solar wind expands supersonically into space in all
directions, it creates a magnetized bubble -- the heliosphere --
around the Sun.  Eventually, the solar wind encounters the
electrically charged particles and magnetic field in the
interstellar gas.  In this zone the solar wind abruptly slows down
from supersonic to subsonic speed, creating a termination shock.
Before the spacecraft travel beyond the heliopause into
interstellar space, they will pass through this termination shock.

         "The data coming back from Voyager now suggest that we
may pass through the termination shock in the next three to five
years," Stone said.  "If that's the case, then one would expect
that within 10 years or so we would actually be very close to
penetrating the heliopause itself and entering into interstellar
space for the first time."

         Reaching the termination shock and heliopause will be
major milestones for the mission because no spacecraft have been
there before and the Voyagers will gather the first direct
evidence of their structure.  Encountering the termination shock
and heliopause has been a long-sought goal for many space
physicists, and exactly where these two boundaries are located and
what they are like still remains a mystery.

        Science data are returned to Earth in real-time to the 34-
meter Deep Space Network antennas located in California, Australia
and Spain.  Both spacecraft have enough electricity and attitude
control propellant to continue operating until about 2020, when
electrical power produced by the RTGs will no longer support
science instrument operation.  At that time, Voyager 1 will be
almost 150 times farther from the Sun than the Earth -- almost 14
billion miles (more than 20 billion kilometers) away.

         On Feb. 17, Voyager 1 will be departing the Solar System
at a speed of 39,000 miles per hour (17.4 kilometers per second ).
At the same time, Voyager 2 will be 5.1 billion miles (8.1 billion
kilometers) from Earth and is departing the Solar System at a
speed of 35,000 miles per hour (15.9 kilometers per second).

        JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology,
manages the Voyager Interstellar Mission for NASA's Office of
Space Science, Washington, DC.

                          - end -








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                            Re: MPD and Abduction

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:01:31 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:07:41 -0500
Subject: Re: MPD and Abduction

> From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker]
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:47:36 -0600
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: MPD and abduction

> This is an excellent book on MPD.  (Everything I have read from
> this author has been.)

> THE OSIRIS COMPLEX: Case studies in Multiple Personality Disorder
> by Colin A. Ross, MD. (1994).

> The following is from Chapter 14: Flash the Destroyer.

> Margaret is the patient.  And according to Dr. Ross, the only one
> he has worked with who has achieved full integration and who has
> gone on to a complete relapse of the MPD. P 144.

> p148: Margaret's system contained several alters who appeared to
> be psychotic...

>    There was always doubt about the reality of the stories
> Margaret told.  For instance, one of her alters had a clear
> memory of aliens coming into her apartment, impregnating her,
> coming back months later to remove the foetus, the returning
> years later to show her the half-human, half-alien, child they
> were raising among the stars.  This alter was morified when I
> raised the possibility  that the aliens were possibly not
> literally real: she said I had ruined the therapy and her
> chances of recovery forever by doubting her.

> I dont remember which,  but it was either Jacobs or Mack who said
> that they had never heard of, nor had a case of MPD associated
> with abduction. Well...here it is.

Ahem...HELLO?  Just because a therapist, who is rigorously
trained in a certain (very trendy) perspective/diagnosis, has
declared this "aspect" to be integrated does NOT mean that a) the
woman ever had MPD or b) that the alien experiences were ever
"created" by her symptoms.

Needless to say, MPD is the hot diagnosis of the moment and the
therapists/researchers into this phenomenon are hardly blind, in
the scientific testing sense.  Similarly the "patients" are
subtly encouraged to act out certain "personalities" and to play
into this diagnosis.

This is all just so much hot air.

One more thought on the MPD-abduction issue.  In those cases of
apparently real MPD (those which have been fully documented prior
to interaction with the therapist and are clearly not
"manufactured" by the theraputic interaction), where the patient
experiences "missing time" and "wakes up" in a strange location
and so on, there IS an interesting similarity to the abduction
phenomenon.

This raises the question:  Where does the recessive personality
"go" when it's unaware?  What are the dynamics of the lack of
awareness?
The answer to THIS question, which I'm not anticipating anytime
soon <g>, might lead to understanding regarding the lack of
memory and awareness that occurs during abduction experiences.
Clearly there must be somewhere for this personality to "go to"
while it's being recessive.  And this implies that there are
other hidden locations within the mind (if not the brain <g>).

The sad thing is that we are so obviously in need of a much more
sophisticated model of human consciousness than we now have, and
yet the medical and scientific community continues to go for the
easy and trendy...continues to insist that there is one "proper"
perception and one "proper" reality, declaring everything else
pathological.

An episode of "The Unexplained" aired on A&E this week about the
history of the military/research remote viewing projects.  There
were the usual opposing opinions presented...CSICOP...and a
medical researcher, a neurologist.  This researcher, although far
less debunking than CSICOP's representative, did make an
astonishing statement.  He said that an experiment that didn't
successfully EXPLAIN the phenomenon being explored was just poor
research.

This is extraordinary, for obviously you can't explain a
phenomenon using ideas that haven't been discovered or developed
yet.  You are limited to the status quo worldview.  And more
importantly, you are limiting yourself to experiments that will
fit the current worldview. You will cease to even explore.  Is
this a common attitude among research scientists?  If so, we're
doomed to keep "repeating history" endlessly.

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
ICQ Pager 6797092







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                              Valentine 'Baby'

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:26:19 +1030
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:57:38 -0500
Subject: Valentine 'Baby'

Hi Errol and List,

Mike and I would like to announce that, early this
morning, 5 a.m. E.S.T.,  our  joint website venture
"ORBWATCH" was born.

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

Very best wishes.

JJ




--
Ev'ry breath you take,
Ev'ry move you make,
Ev'ry bond you break
Ev'ry step you take,
I'LL BE WATCHING YOU!!!!

(STING 1983)







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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: werd@interlog.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:45:50 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:20:53 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:03:09 +0100
>From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>> From: werd@interlog.com
>> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:50:37 -0500 (EST)
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>> >Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:29:00 +0100
>> >From: Don Ledger <dledger@istar.ca>
>> >To: updates@globalserve.net
>> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>Snipped the other stuff as being dealt with.

>> So is being called a liar. (see above)

This should have read, "..so is saying your calling someone a
liar." Which is not what I was doing. (Shouldn't answer E-mail at
one o'clock in the morning).

TTFN
Drew Williamson









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                            Re: MPD and Abduction

From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:38:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:52:36 -0500
Subject: Re: MPD and Abduction

> From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker]
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:47:36 -0600
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: MPD and abduction

> This is an excellent book on MPD.  (Everything I have read from
> this author has been.)

> THE OSIRIS COMPLEX: Case studies in Multiple Personality Disorder
> by Colin A. Ross, MD. (1994).

> The following is from Chapter 14: Flash the Destroyer.

> Margaret is the patient.  And according to Dr. Ross, the only one
> he has worked with who has achieved full integration and who has
> gone on to a complete relapse of the MPD. P 144.


> p148: Margaret's system contained several alters who appeared to
> be psychotic...

>    There was always doubt about the reality of the stories
> Margaret told.  For instance, one of her alters had a clear
> memory of aliens coming into her apartment, impregnating her,
> coming back months later to remove the foetus, the returning
> years later to show her the half-human, half-alien, child they
> were raising among the stars.  This alter was morified when I
> raised the possibility  that the aliens were possibly not
> literally real: she said I had ruined the therapy and her
> chances of recovery forever by doubting her.

>   Margaret made this claim before I had heard about the current
> epidemic of UFO abductions. I did not realize, when I heard
> Margaret's story that thousands of people in North America have
> similar memories. Many of these people probably have complex
> dissociative disorders, but many appear to be otherwise
> normal....

> ---

> I dont remember which,  but it was either Jacobs or Mack who said
> that they had never heard of, nor had a case of MPD associated
> with abduction. Well...here it is.

Always nice to have the database updated.

However...this has no significance for abduction research. Poor
Margaret, with her multiple personality disorder, could have been
fantasizing abductions. That tells us nothing about the reality
of experiences anyone else might have.

Or, she could truly have been abducted...and dissasociated the
experience by making it available to only one of her
personalities.

Since MPD is not exactly widespread among abductees, it doesn't
have much to do with the abduction experience, whatever that
experience may turn out to
be.








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                              Re: The Next Step

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:50:23 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:17:31 -0500
Subject: Re: The Next Step

>From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Next Step
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:10:16 -1000

>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: UFO UpDate: The Next Step [was: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'...]

Tom wrote:

>[...]

>This thread
>started when someone decided that judgements concerning the
>morality and ethics of a race of ETs could be made from an
>unidentifiable still photograph.  I disagreed with that, and
>still do, [...]

In case it might be inferred that that "someone" was me, let me
set the record straight.  I said that much could be deduced about
the ethics/morality of ETs responsible for overseeing the
sightings of the past 50 years from examining the deniability
factor they so often fed into those sightings.  This should not
have been distorted into "from an unidentifiable still
photograph"!  Distortions like this don't belong within the true
scientific method, and shouldn't be tolerated on this list.

As Bruce Maccabee said in a post today:


"The conventional/straight world accepts the idea that there are
no UFOs. Therefore each sigting must be explainable. Therefore
there is an explanation for each sighting. When a sighting comes
along one or more skeptics comes up with an explanation for the
sighting. "It was Venus.... it was Mars.... it was an
airplane... it was a balloon..." ... whatever, depending upon the
sighting."


So let's keep Alex's sighting & photos in context of previous
ones of a similar nature.

Bruce went on:


"However, rarely _if_ever_ does a skeptic "test" the explanation'
against the available sighting data.  Instead, what usually
happens is that the skeptic finds an explanation for one part of
the sighting and then "publishes"  (I can cite specific examples
in my own experience if anyone is interested.) The general
public/press/scientific community then assmes the sighting has
been explained and goes on its merry way."


Obviously, a capable ufologist doesn't operate that way, and
continually ignore the bulk of the data that came before the
particular sighting in question.  Instead, he sees how it may tie
in with the past data.

I went on to give examples of types of sightings where the UFO
craft was disguised to appear, with a rough first glance, like
some known object. Obviously the details of their appearance
and/or behavior/maneuverability allowed the impressed witness to
realize the object was quite remarkably different from the
mundane object it may have cursorily resembled, and so it was a
UFO sighting. But the negative skeptic ignores these differences
and latches onto the similarities only. This saves him/her from
believing what is unacceptable to his/her "belief system."  This
saves him/her from going beserk.

Quite often, such a belief system cannot imagine that what
advanced technology and understanding thousands of years advanced
to our own could do would indeed seem like magic to us, as even
Sagan once realized.  And quite often it can't admit that alien
intelligence could be greatly advanced over our own.

I believe Alex's orb sighting is probably one more sighting of
this nature. Agreed it may only be a coincidence that it
resembled a lens flare, or as Bob Shell would emphasize, perhaps
it is a lens flare and the real UFO eluded capture on film.  (But
Alex's other photos of it, though less distinct, suggest this
isn't the case.)

We need to keep in mind the category of UFO sightings wherein the
object passed itself off, under cursory examination (but not
detailed or complete examination), as a mundane human or natural
object, and not forget that this category of UFO exists when we
come across others of the same nature.  Don't treat Alex's
evidence in isolation from the rest of the UFO phenomenon.

  Jim Deardorff








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   Feb > Feb 14

                       Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:19:37 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:13:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997

Recently I heard from Wendelle Stevens that by now the
investigators have uncovered 26 eye witnesses to this event.  And
that a few of them were in one of the apartments pictured in the
video that is much closer to the flying saucer, and so had real
close-up views.

Can anyone corroborate this, or do we wait until the March 11th
TV showing to learn more?

Jim Deardorff








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                Re: UFO Video on Channel 7 News, ABC New York

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:54:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:11:29 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Video on Channel 7 News, ABC New York

Report on the UFO VIDEO from New York Channel 7 News:

The ABC news station in New York, WABC (7 Lincoln Square, New
York, NY 10023-6298) was contacted (212-456-3173) regarding the
reported broadcast of a UFO videotape from Kentucky on their
channel.

The Eyewitness News telephone receptionist said the video was
played over the 'network,' and recommended that I call them.
The network operator said that they do not have any newscast at
the 5:50 p.m. time-frame, and advised that the playback of the
tape and script used for the piece would be handled by the local
station. The local station was again contacted, and the operator
finally went to his computer and located the script, reading it
to me while I listened and took notes.

This is not a sighting of a UFO in Kentucky.  The two witnesses,
however, _are_ from Kentucky.  They are James Bland, a
psychiatrist, and his wife Sue Petterson, both of Greensburgh
(sp?) Kentucky. Their videotape, which purportedly shows an
orb-like object hovering in the sky, was recorded in New Mexico
two years ago. The news script was fluffy, vague and nebulous,
and determined to not be worth the effort to transcribe word for
word.

Filed,
FEBRUARY 14, 1998
Kenny Young

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/







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                              Re: The Next Step

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:17:42 +1030
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:02:30 -0500
Subject: Re: The Next Step


> From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
> To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Next Step
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:10:16 -1000


> Aloha JJ....:)

****************************************************************

Hi there Tom!!


> Thank you for your nice comments.

Isn't this nice, exchanging pleasantries?!!!

> I agree with you.  This thread
> started when someone decided that judgements concerning the
> morality and ethics of a race of ETs could be made from an
> unidentifiable still photograph.  I disagreed with that, and
> still do, and suddenly I became a skeptic and started getting
> flame mail.

Well, I think that every single person on this list sees things
from a different angle, and, as Don Ledger pointed out, people
tend to zero in on a specific point of a posting, without always
taking in the whole picture!

> All I want people to do is think with their minds instead of
> their emotions.  I don't think that is unreasonable, but you
> would be surprised at the number of people who do.

Ideally, everyone would use every part of their being with which
to think, and then, maybe, we would all be more balanced people
Going only in one direction obviously creates a rather skewed
picture!!

> I think that ufology should be treated as a science and not a
> religion but sometimes it is hard to separate the two.

Religion is quite a strong word to use, but there certainly
are people, such as the poor, unfortunate souls who left planet
Earth last March 26th, I believe, who turn it into such.

> Albert Einstein had no proof of the General Theory of Relativity
> for several years and science refused to accept it until it was
> proven in the lensing experiment.  Even so, it is still not
> perfect because it is becoming pretty clear that the speed of
> light can be exceeded....or at least bypassed. We have been
> taking the unproven parts on faith all these years.  So...is it
> science, or religion?

The Oxford Dictionary defines science as: "pursuit or principles
of systematic and formulated knowledge; branch of knowledge;
organised  body of knowledge on a subject.."

It says of religion: "particular system of faith and worship."
Also, "human recognition of superhuman controlling power and
especially of a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and
worship."

If we consider the "possibility" of a superhuman having created
everything that "is,"  then everything that exists is a creation
of that superhuman, including science and religion. If everything
 is interrelated, then science and religion have to be parts of
the greater whole.

Separating them???  Difficult indeed!!!

> Tom Burnett

Best wishes,

JJ

******************************************

"It's a kind of magic, it's a kind of magic,
 A kind of magic...One dream, one soul,
 One prize, one goal...
 One golden glance of what should be."

From: QUEEN "A Kind of Magic" album (1986)

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************







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                         Re: Communication with UFOs

From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:19:24 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:05:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:24:56 +1030
> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com>
> o: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Communication with UFOs

> > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:05:11 +0000
> > From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Communication with UFOs

> > I will analyze your video for free.  No charge.  I have the
> > capability of doing video frame grabbing, and I have webspace
> > available to make all the grabs, or a good sampling, available to
> > other parties interested in your sighting.

> > Interested?

> It is very kind of you to make that offer.

> However, as I do not allow these "babies" out of my sight,
> I would have to come along with them!!!!!!!!!!  :-)

JJ...are we discussing video evidence of your encounter...or a
new member of your family? :)  I understand your attachment with
the event, I'm sure I would have the same passion, but additional
independent analysis of what you have captured on film can only
benefit the validity of what was actually seen.  Obviously we are
not talking about lens flares, military flares, or solar flares!


I am one who firmly believes there are objects in our skies,
possibly under our oceans, and perhaps within our mountains,
which we as a public are totally unaware.  When a member of this
"public" records one of these "unknowns" it becomes important for
the collaboration to begin and truths wiggle their way to the
surface of general understanding by all.
That's true progress...and perhaps in this case...a
transformation of our known realities...greater than the
exponential progression from Newtonian physics to Einstein's
theory of relativity.

Creating a resevoir of photographic evidence is critical to the
understanding of these objects.  I understand science's need for
"physical" samplings to evaluate a given phenomena, but in this
case we may need to redefine the term "physical."  Before the
camera arrived on the scene, eye witness stories and drawings
were the only means for gathering information about an encounter
with the unusual.  The testamonies were tainted with culture
influences, individual perceptions, and subjective conjecture on
"what" the unknown actually was.  Photography changes all that.
It strips us of subjectivity.  As the saying goes...."a photo
doesn't lie."

I know what the skeptics say...and personally I believe it's
beyond being skeptical, that these images could be tampered with,
computerized, or manipulated to suit someone's interpretation.
Photography is a science, there are ways to discover if an image
is not real.  I think the bottom line is 'do we trust one
another?'  For us to embark on an adventure which could complete
shift our understanding of the universe, I think basic moral
issues must also be raised in tandem with this evolution.  How
much faith do we put in ourselves to see clearly the reality
about us?  We've been dependent on others to do it for us for a
very long time.

Photography is a relatively new tool for human comprehension of
what and who we are.  Perhaps to solve one of the largest
mysteries of our recorded history we need to utilize the tools
created by humans a century ago.  I don't think the photograph
has been attributed to reverse engineering....it's a miracle we
found ourselves :)

> Aha!!!  "Conventional orb!!!"  Well..... in a few hours,
> perhaps you would like to read my reports of my Orbwatching!!!???
> Website should be up and running very shortly, and that will give
> you an idea of the type of objects I was looking at last year.

Please post the URL as soon as possible..

> > Have you thoroughly checked the shipping traffic.

>   _Yes_.

_Good!_

> Well... the bright objects appeared at identical times, so,
> admittedly, they _could_  be regular shipping. _However_,  my video
> indicates clockwise rotation and a large reddish "field" below
> the "objects."


You know...you could "clone" your babies and let others take a peek :)

<snip>

> Aha.......that is true!!!!!  I _do_ believe I may have entered
> the realm of Ufology!!!!

After doing a websearch on your name...looking for your URL...I
noticed you've been busy with the "orbs" for quite some time!

> I love the Orbs being part of my reality.  I have no FEAR or
> negative feelings about these Boys.  As far as I am concerned,
> they are just more people who are, or might be, one day,  friends
> or neighbours.

It is important for us to keep happy thoughts during these
times...without them we destroy ourselves.

> Thanks for your very pleasant postings!!!

> JJ

...and to you :)

cheers,
Bryan!

--
_________________
interests - - - -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dreamsenses: The Home of Being! - http://www.raccoon.com/~bryan
The Des Moines Astronomical Society - http://www.sciowa.org/~dmas
The Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group - http://www.mufor.org/ares
_________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^







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   Feb > Feb 14

                            Re: Valentine 'Baby'

From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:25:10 -1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:25:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Valentine 'Baby'


> Hi Errol and List,

> Mike and I would like to announce that, early this
> morning, 5 a.m. E.S.T.,  our  joint website venture
> "ORBWATCH" was born.

> http://www.per.to/orbwatch

> Very best wishes.



HEY!  JJ!!

Congratulations!!!!

Best of Luck

Aloha
Tom Burnett









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                            Re: MPD and Abduction

From: "Larry Hatch" <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:55:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:39:31 -0500
Subject: Re: MPD and Abduction

>From: c549597@showme.missouri.edu [Barbara Becker]
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:47:36 -0600
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: MPD and abduction


> THE OSIRIS COMPLEX: Case studies in Multiple Personality Disorder
> by Colin A. Ross, MD. (1994).

<snip>

My only input is:

IF you search long and hard enough, you will find
German-American bank robbers with a carrot fetish ..
or you... or me... or some famous musical composer.

I think it is important that somebody finally found a
psychotic "abductee", and I do not wish to minimize
this work in any way!

My point (here only) is roughly the same as Dr. Mack.

Why should we have to work this hard to find a "nut"
amongst the abductees? Does this suggest that
there is an objective reality to the phenomenon?

Best Traumas

-  Larry Hatch









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                    Bell Holds Mass Telepathic 'UFO Call'

From: "Peter P." <ptp@primenet.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:58:19 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:44:36 -0500
Subject: Bell Holds Mass Telepathic 'UFO Call'


RADIO HOST HOLDS ANOTHER MASS TELEPATHIC 'UFO CALL'

Hoping to repeat what followed a mass 'telepathic message' sent
out to possible passing UFOs, in early March of 97, by his
listening audience, late night radio talkshow host Art Bell again
instructed his listeners to take part in what might be called an
unusual social experiment.

In the wee hours of Saturday morning, the "Coast To Coast AM"
host instructed his audience, estimated in the millions by Bell,
to send out a simple 'telepathic message' to any passing
extraterrestrial craft, with a request to "make yourselves
known."

A previous attempt, around the 9th of last March, was
coincidentally followed by a now well known UFO sighting (or
sightings, depending on who you ask) over the skies of Phoenix,
Arizona the evening of March 13th.

Another radio-fueled "telepathic message" was relayed by Bell and
his listeners later in '97, which was followed about a week later
by UFO sightings near Las Vegas, Nevada.

Still, on the air last night, Bell was willing to chalk both up
to coincidence, but if a third major UFO sighting followed this
attempt at communication, he added, "I'll seriously reconsider."

In answer to a caller's question, Bell said he would expect a
sighting, "like in Phoenix", within the next week or two at the
most, if this 'telepathic message' was to be considered
successful.















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                Re: UFO Video on Channel 7 News, ABC New York

From: Dave Kauble <dkauble@iquest.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:02:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:59:36 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Video on Channel 7 News, ABC New York

The video mentioned in a previous message -- about the UFO video
filmed in New Mexico by a Kentucky husband and wife, is available
in QuickTime format at Deb's UFO Research Information
Clearinghouse,
http://www.debshome.com/New_Mexico_UFO21398_MoV.html if anyone is
interested in viewing the footage shown, or downloading.

Dave Kauble









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                              Re: The Next Step

From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:22:09 -1000
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:17:04 -0500
Subject: Re: The Next Step


> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: The Next Step
> Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 16:17 PM

> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:50:23 -0800 (PST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Next Step

> >From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
> >To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Next Step
> >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:10:16 -1000

> >> To: updates@globalserve.net
> >> Subject: UFO UpDate: The Next Step [was: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'...]

> Tom wrote:

> >[...]

> >This thread
> >started when someone decided that judgements concerning the
> >morality and ethics of a race of ETs could be made from an
> >unidentifiable still photograph.  I disagreed with that, and
> >still do, [...]

> In case it might be inferred that that "someone" was me, let me
> set the record straight.  I said that much could be deduced about
> the ethics/morality of ETs responsible for overseeing the
> sightings of the past 50 years from examining the deniability
> factor they so often fed into those sightings.  This should not
> have been distorted into "from an unidentifiable still
> photograph"!  Distortions like this don't belong within the true
> scientific method, and shouldn't be tolerated on this list.

> As Bruce Maccabee said in a post today:

<snip>


You didn't say anything like that until just now. Furthermore, if
you want to quote Bruce Maccabee, how about putting in all of it
instead of just the parts you can take out of context.  I am
willing to retract any factually incorrect statements I make, but
I stand by everything I have written in this thread.  I have
never suggested that anyone or any opinion 'should not be
tolerated on this list'.

Aloha
Tom Burnett








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                         Re: Communication with UFOs

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:19:13 +1030
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:41:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Communication with UFOs


> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:19:24 +0000
> From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Communication with UFOs

> However, as I do not allow these "babies" out of my sight,
> > I would have to come along with them!!!!!!!!!!  :-)

> JJ...are we discussing video evidence of your encounter...or a
> new member of your family? :)

Hello Bryan again!!

Well ...good question! I have put in hundreds of hours on
this project, and yes, they seem just like members of my
family.

Hundreds of hours in extreme weather conditions, I might
add!!

>  I understand your attachment with
> the event, I'm sure I would have the same passion, but additional
> independent analysis of what you have captured on film can only
> benefit the validity of what was actually seen.  Obviously we are
> not talking about lens flares, military flares, or solar flares!

Not Flares.  Not the numbers that come in at low altitude and
horizontally across the water's surface, then go plop!

> I am one who firmly believes there are objects in our skies,
> possibly under our oceans, and perhaps within our mountains,
> which we as a public are totally unaware.  When a member of this
> "public" records one of these "unknowns" it becomes important for
> the collaboration to begin and truths wiggle their way to the
> surface of general understanding by all.

I have been posting since last March 22nd. _No-one_ seemed
particularly interested in getting themselves out of their
armchairs.

No-one particularly wanted to stand and freeze on the lake shore
for 4 or more hours every night, with fingers going totally numb
with manipulating video camera, audio equipment, binoculars and
hot chocolate flasks!!!

_Lots_ of people had _lots_ of advice to give, though!!!!

> That's true progress...and perhaps in this case...a
> transformation of our known realities...greater than the
> exponential progression from Newtonian physics to Einstein's
> theory of relativity.

I am progressing really well, and happy with the progress.
My little group of associates is also very happy with our
progress.

> Creating a resevoir of photographic evidence is critical to the
> understanding of these objects.  I understand science's need for
> "physical" samplings to evaluate a given phenomena, but in this
> case we may need to redefine the term "physical."  Before the
> camera arrived on the scene, eye witness stories and drawings
> were the only means for gathering information about an encounter
> with the unusual.  The testamonies were tainted with culture
> influences, individual perceptions, and subjective conjecture on
> "what" the unknown actually was.  Photography changes all that.
> It strips us of subjectivity.  As the saying goes...."a photo
> doesn't lie."

Ha! Not what I have been told.  The first day someone saw
the "Big Boys" on the website, this professional photographer
said "those look pasted in." So, at the other end of the world,
my programmer, on hearing that comment, told me to tell said
professional photographer that he would come and paste _him_
in!

> I know what the skeptics say...and personally I believe it's
> beyond being skeptical, that these images could be tampered with,
> computerized, or manipulated to suit someone's interpretation.

Maybe, .....but,  certain 'pros' say different!

> Photography is a science, there are ways to discover if an image
> is not real.  I think the bottom line is 'do we trust one
> another?'

I trust you, Bryan, but the master copy is not leaving my
hands. Sorry about this, but I have heard too many stories of
videos going missing etc. 'Inexplicably'!

> For us to embark on an adventure which could complete
> shift our understanding of the universe, I think basic moral
> issues must also be raised in tandem with this evolution.  How
> much faith do we put in ourselves to see clearly the reality
> about us?  We've been dependent on others to do it for us for a
> very long time.

> Photography is a relatively new tool for human comprehension of
> what and who we are.  Perhaps to solve one of the largest
> mysteries of our recorded history we need to utilize the tools
> created by humans a century ago.  I don't think the photograph
> has been attributed to reverse engineering....it's a miracle we
> found ourselves :)

I don't deny any of this. I am simply paranoid...OK????

> > Aha!!!  "Conventional orb!!!"  Well..... in a few hours,
> > perhaps you would like to read my reports of my Orbwatching!!!???
> > Website should be up and running very shortly, and that will give
> > you an idea of the type of objects I was looking at last year.

> Please post the URL as soon as possible..

Did - http://www.per.to/orbwatch

> > > Have you thoroughly checked the shipping traffic.

> >   _Yes_.

> _Good!_

> > Well... the bright objects appeared at identical times, so,
> > admittedly, they _could_  be regular shipping. _However_,  my video
> > indicates clockwise rotation and a large reddish "field" below
> > the "objects."

> You know...you could "clone" your babies and let others take a peek :)

Quite a few people around the world have copies, but no-one is
touching the master copy!!!

> <snip>

> > Aha.......that is true!!!!!  I _do_ believe I may have entered
> > the realm of Ufology!!!!

> After doing a websearch on your name...looking for your URL...I
> noticed you've been busy with the "orbs" for quite some time!

Absolutely and they are getting back into action.
Bring your equipment, heavy duty arctic gear, and come
film!!!!!!!

> > I love the Orbs being part of my reality.  I have no FEAR or
> > negative feelings about these Boys.  As far as I am concerned,
> > they are just more people who are, or might be, one day,  friends
> > or neighbours.

> It is important for us to keep happy thoughts during these
> times...without them we destroy ourselves.

Happy is good.  Negative thoughts mess everyone up!!

> > Thanks for your very pleasant postings!!!

> > JJ

> ...and to you :)

cheers
Bryan!

Best wishes.........JJ


"It's a kind of magic, it's a kind of magic,
 A kind of magic...One dream, one soul,
 One prize, one goal...
 One golden glance of what should be."

From: QUEEN "A Kind of Magic" album (1986)

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************








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                              Re: The Next Step

From: Bryan Butcher <being@concentric.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:44:36 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:21:48 -0500
Subject: Re: The Next Step


> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:50:23 -0800 (PST)
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, updates@globalserve.net
> From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Next Step


<very big snip of a very well written rebuttal...kudos jim>

> I believe Alex's orb sighting is probably one more sighting of
> this nature. Agreed it may only be a coincidence that it
> resembled a lens flare, or as Bob Shell would emphasize, perhaps
> it is a lens flare and the real UFO eluded capture on film.  (But
> Alex's other photos of it, though less distinct, suggest this
> isn't the case.)

> We need to keep in mind the category of UFO sightings wherein the
> object passed itself off, under cursory examination (but not
> detailed or complete examination), as a mundane human or natural
> object, and not forget that this category of UFO exists when we
> come across others of the same nature.  Don't treat Alex's
> evidence in isolation from the rest of the UFO phenomenon.

>   Jim Deardorff


Jim..

I enjoyed and appreciated the insights you gave describing how
one should look at evidence brought before us...it was quite
inspirational.

But, Bruce and I have also asked Alex if he would post the
additional images he has of the orb he captured on film and have
received one scanned photo with an array of enhancements of the
same photo.  I believe this issue of a lens flare could be
resolved simply and quickly if Alex would post additional
images...if even it's just one more.

I have been promoting on this list the validity of photography as
hard evidence to the existence of unknown phenomenon within the
reality of the known.  To ignore the photographic evidence is
anti-productive to advancing our understanding of that which is
around us.  All pictures are not explainable, nor are they
hoaxes.

With the exponential growth of cameras in the hands of everyday
people around the world, the more abundant images become
available.  The more abudant the images..the more we can decipher
which is authentic and which is not. If we disallow these images
from becoming evidence of an event because we fear them to be
hoaxes, without proving them to be so, and we can not believe the
eyewitness testimony of our fellow human beings because we
believe them to be looney, even though they have been leading
normal productive lives before the encounter...then perhaps we
have found the reasons why these "unknowns" remain unknown.

cheers,
Bryan!

--
_________________
interests - - - -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dreamsenses: The Home of Being! - http://www.raccoon.com/~bryan
The Des Moines Astronomical Society - http://www.sciowa.org/~dmas
The Near Pathfinder Anomaly Analysis Group - http://www.mufor.org/ares
_________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^








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              Chat with Elaine Douglass, DC director for MUFON

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:42:48 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:08:44 -0500
Subject: Chat with Elaine Douglass, DC director for MUFON

Where do we go from here?

From rallies on Capitol Hill to FOIA lawsuits and petitions
requesting UFO hearings, the voice for disclosure is at a
all time high.  And once that disclosure occurs, where do
we go from there?

Please join the UFO Forum and special guest Elaine Douglass,
Washington DC director for MUFON, on Tuesday, February 17th
6pm, PT to discuss preparations for the next necessary steps.
This chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/ufo

The Netshow audio Interview is now available, just
follow the links on the above site.

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.









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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 7

From: Masinaigan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:19:59 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:17:56 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 7

     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 7
February 15, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

ORANGE SPHERE UFOs FLY
OVER SOUTHERN SPAIN

     A three-day UFO flap rocked the Andalucia
region in southern Spain this week, with numerous
sightings of glowing orange spheres.
     On Monday, February 9, 1998, Juan Valiente
was at work at Fabrica de Cementes Ltda., a cement
plant in Torredonjimeno when he spotted a mysterious
orange glow at 8 p.m.  Looking directly at it, Valiente
saw "a spherical orange object rising in circles above
the plant."
     The following day, Tuesday, February 10, 1998,
at 1:42 p.m., Jose Antonio Martini Framit and his friend,
Mark Sanders, were driving north on autovia Jaen/Granada
near Pico de Magina.  Both men are members of the
Sociedad de Investigaciones Biofisicas (S.I.B.), a UFO
study group.
     "Halfway down the road we saw an incredible
sparkle," Jose reported.  "Like a flash of lightning that
illuminated everything.  My first reaction was to look out
the side window, and there it was.  In that moment, I saw
a very vivid, orange-colored sphere.  It was not the first
time I had seen one, but this time the object was much
more distinct."
     He estimated the UFO's size at that distance to
be 15 centimeters (7 inches) in diameter.  "The altitude
was approximately 500 meters (1,650 feet), and I saw it
below the clouds," he reported.  "The velocity was very
high, comparable to a meteor.  Its flight path was totally
horizontal.  Mark did not see the object, only the glow."
     The UFO was heading southeast.  Jose stopped the
car, turned and followed, hoping to keep the object in
view.  "We followed in the same direction, but it
disappeared before Mark could see it."
     The next night, Wednesday, February 11, 1998,
at the Fabrica de Cementes plant in Torredonjimeno,
night watchman Manuel Lopez was in his guard shack
at 7 p.m. when "something began rattling the windows."
Reddish-orange light poured through the windowpanes.
     Rushing outside, Lopez watched the orange-sphere
UFO fly away at high speed.  "I heard the loud clap of
its departure and felt the vibrations," he told investigators.
     At 1:40 a.m., Officer Baldomero of the Policia Local
was on patrol in town with another policeman when
"they saw 'an immense luminosity' of a white color that
flew through the night sky.  The light lasted between
15 and 20 seconds."
     Nearly a minute later, "they heard a tremendous bang
of four seconds' duration.  They did not observe an object.
The light appeared in the north."  The officers reported the
incident to the local cuartel of the Guardia Civil (Spain's
police--J.T.)
     Torredonjimeno is located 20 kilometers (12 miles)
west of Jaen, approximately 240 kilometers (150 miles)
south of Madrid.  (Muchas gracias a Antonio Salinas
Cervi y Miguel Angel Pereira de S.I.B. para esas noticias.)

MYSTERIOUS SKY BOOMS HEARD
AROUND MOBILE, ALABAMA

     On Thursday, February 5, 1998, residents of Mobile,
Alabama (population 196,278) reported hearing "loud
sonic booms" and "explosions."
     Mobile County 911 was flooded with calls.  Most of
the complaints came from Navco, Cottage Hill, Jackson
Heights and Tillman's Corner on the south side of the
city.
     According to the Mobile County Sheriff's Department,
a deputy at the substation in Theodore, Alabama
(population 6,509), on Highway 59 about 10 miles
(16 kilometers) south of Mobile, "saw the walls shake
when a boom sounded.  No one was injured and no
major damage was reported."
     Meteorologists at the National Weather Service had
no explanation for the noises.  The U.S. Geological
Survey's Earthquake Center in Boulder, Colorado said
the sound was not caused by earthquakes.
     A spokesman for the U.S. Air Force said the sonic
booms might have been caused by USAF supersonic
fighters "traveling from Texas to Florida."  He added that,
under "certain weather conditions," a sonic boom may
be carried long distances over water.
     Mobile is located on Interstate Highway 10 at the
head of Mobile Bay, approximately 170 miles (272
kilometers) south of Montgomery, the state capital.
(See the Miami Herald for February 6, 1998.)
(Editor's Comment:  Mobile Bay is thirty miles long.
That's a long way for a sonic boom to travel from the
Gulf of Mexico.)

RED UFO TRAILS A JETLINER
SOUTH OF LOS ANGELES

     On Tuesday, February 10, 1998, at about 8 p.m.,
James D. was relaxing at his home in Dana Point,
California (population 31,896), about 35 miles
(56 kilometers) south of Los Angeles, when he spied
a most unusual UFO.
     "Every night I try to go out in my yard and smoke
a cigar," James reported.  "At about 8 p.m. I witnessed
a red object keeping pace with a southbound
commercial airliner.  It seemed to be off the left wing
somewhere between 300 and 500 yards.  You could
clearly see that it was not a plane, as it was much
smaller" than the jetliner.
     "The jetliner was going in a southeasterly direction,
probably ten miles (16 kilometers) offshore," he added.
"It flew at between 15,000 and 20,000 feet (4,545 to
6,060 meters)  The object appeared off the left wing
from where I was.  It was at the same speed for
approximately four to five miles before it disappeared.
It was a red sphere.  It almost looked as if it was
chasing the plane, because the airliner was accelerating,
but the object kept pace.  As it passed to the south, you
could definitely see that the object was separate from
the plane.  It (the UFO) just seemed to disappear into
thin air.  The only sound I heard was the engines of
the airliner."  (Email Interview)

BLUE UFO SEEN HOVERING
OVER DENVER, COLORADO

     On Tuesday, February 3, 1998, at 9:47 p.m.,
Jonathan A. "was heading south on I-25" Interstate
Highway 25 in Denver, Colorado (population 467,610)
when he spotted something strange in the sky.
     "I saw a bright blue light in the sky that was
hovering for about one minute," Jon reported. "There
was no structure (on the UFO), and the sky was
clear.  It looked by me that it could have been just
east of the Highlands Ranch.  I could not saw just
how far away it was, but it was as big as my thumb,
so it was close."
     "I would say it was about 20 degrees above the
horizon," he added.  "I stopped to watch.  Then it
moved fast--straight up--and it was gone.  I drove
further east but had no luck seeing it again.  Who
knows what it was?  All I know is that I saw it, and
I could not identify 'it' or the flight pattern it took."
(Email Interview)

UFOs AGAIN ACTIVE AROUND
GRATIS, OHIO

     The small town of Gratis, Ohio (population 998),
at the junction of Highways 725 and 503 approximately
97 miles (155 kilometers) southwest of Columbus, is
once more the scene of UFO activity.
     On Thursday, February 5, 1998, at 8:30 p.m.,
Timothy J. reported that "his brother came in the
house and stated that there was a UFO outside."
     Heading outdoors, Tim spotted the object to the
southeast of their house.  He described it as "a
triangular shape" that "had a glow that contrasted
against the sky.  It had a light at each corner and three
more at the center.  Two of the outside lights flashed
alternately with one center light.  It made no sound and
flew extremely slow."  (Many thanks to Tim Hagemeister
of NACOMM for this report.)
     On November 19, 1997, at around 5:30 p.m., Edward J.
reported, "My wife and daughter have seen the strange
objects in the southern sky near Camden and Gratis.
Today I saw those lights.  There were four lights in
position.  Two of the lights were almost on top of the
others.  One of the two was much larger.  The four lights,
when you looked at them, you could tell they were all
together in a group, being set apart from all the others
such as stars and aircraft.  My daughter states that she
sees these lights frequently and calls them 'the Gratis
UFOs.'"  (Many thanks to Kenneth Young, public relations
director of Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge,
T.A.S.K., for this report.)

TUBULAR ORANGE UFO SEEN
OVER DUNKIRK, NEW YORK

     In early February, Jason R. was staying at his
grandparents' home in Dunkirk, New York, located on
the shores on Highway 5 approximately 45 miles
(72 kilometers) southwest of Buffalo, when he heard
a strange whirring noise.
     "I was sitting on my grandmother's front porch
one night and heard a type of whizzing sound coming
from the sky," he reported.  "At first I thought it was
a plane crashing.  As I looked around for several
minutes, I saw a bright orange stick-figured object
fly over the house.  It looked like one of those
roadside red flare things.  It was as big as or
bigger than the house across the street."
     Jason immediately went indoors to tell his
family.  As the UFO flew around overhead, it was
observed by the boy, his sister and both grandparents.
(Many thanks to Kenneth Young of T.A.S.K. for
passing on this report.)

UFO FLAP SWINGS INTO
HIGH GEAR IN CHILE

     January 1998 was a big month for UFO sightings
in Chile.
     On January 4, 1998, Pablo Marinan and his family
spied a UFO over their hometown of Angol, located
400 kilometers (250 miles) south of Santiago de Chile,
the national capital.
     "The object was 55 degrees above the horizon and
southeast of us," Pablo reported.  "The UFO was oval
in shape, a very bright light with a dark structure around
it.  The object was vibrating.  At arm's length, it was
about two centimeters (one inch) long."
     On January 17, 1998, at 9:19 p.m., Rodrigo Bravo
saw "a very bright white/gold light come from the south
at high speed.  It stopped in mid-air over Santiago
(above the Corrillos section) for about ten seconds,
then it shot back to the south from where it came."
     On January 24, 1998, Sergio Rojas and four friends
drove out to Tranque Alfalfal dam in El Cajon del Maipo
about 40 kilometers (25 miles) southwest of Santiago.
On their way up the mountain to the dam, "they saw
two balls of light pass over them at a very high speed.
After a few seconds, they saw a third one, but it was
traveling much slower."
     Arriving at the dam, Sergio and his friends left
the car and walked to the cliff's edge.  "From here they
could see the Rio Maipo 100 meters (330 feet) below.
Then they saw a cigar/egg-shaped UFO about 18 meters
(60 feet) long coming up the river.  It was a bright white
color.  They heard a very high-pitched tone that clogged
their ears for a while."
     As the UFO flew by, the group found themselves
covered by "a strange mist, hot and cold at the same
time."  They hurried back to the car and drove down
the mountain.
     "On their way to San Jose de Maipo, they encountered
a UFO that was hovering about 800 meters (2,640 feet)
from them.  They stopped the car and got out.  The UFO
looked like the moon but was slightly smaller and was
white-colored.  After five minutes of observation, the UFO
faded away like a cloud or smoke."  (Muchas gracias a
Luis Sanchez Perry para esas informaciones.)

TWO BLACK HELICOPTERS
SPOTTED IN CONNECTICUT

     On Monday, February 9, 1998, at about 3 p.m.,
Vincent R. was near Railroad Avenue in Greenwich,
Connecticut (population 58,400) when he heard the
distinctive sound of helicopter engines.
     Looking up, Vincent saw "two black helicopters
with armor around the windows.  They were flying very
low, just over 1,000 feet (300 meters)."  He described
the helicopters as "medium size, no antennae" and
"with skids."  They were "flying towards Long Island"
along a flight path that would have taken them across
Long Island Sound to Lattingtown, New York.
     Greenwich is located on U.S. Route 1 in the
southwestern corner of Connecticut approximately
30 miles (48 kilometers) northeast of New York City.
(Email Interview)

from the UFO Files...

1942: THE BRENNAN DOGFIGHT

     Five years before Roswell, during World War II, a
Bristol Beaufighter of the Royal Australian Air Force
(RAAF) clashed with a UFO over the Bass Strait,
south of Melbourne, Australia.  Here is the pilot's
own account:
     "We had orders not long after the Japanese attack
on Darwin (on February 19, 1942--J.T.) to patrol the
Bass Strait where fishermen had reported seeing
mysterious lights on the sea at night."
(Editor's Note:  The Allied high command thought
the lights might be from long-range German U-boats
or Japanese I-class submarines.)
     "At 5:50 p.m. of a lovely sunny (February) evening,
we were flying some miles east of the Tasman
Peninsula when, of a sudden, there came out of a
cloud bank, a singular airfoil of a glistening bronze
color."
     "I'd say it was around 150 feet long and about
50 feet in diameter.  It had a sort of beak at its prow,
and the surface seemed burled or rippled or fluted.
On its upper surface was a dome or cupola, from
which I seemed to see reflected flashes as the sun
struck something, which might or might not have
been a helmet, worn by something inside."
     At this point, the pilot, Lt. William Brennan,
took his Beaufighter in for a closer look.
     "Every now and again there came from its
keel greenish-blue flashes.  It turned at a small
angle towards us, and I was amazed to see, framed
in a white circle on the front of the dome, an image
of a large, grinning Cheshire cat."
(Editor's Comment: Cartoon "nose art" was common
on warplanes of World War II.  It seems that the
UFOnauts had gotten into the spirit of the times.)
     "The damn thing flew parallel to us for some
minutes, then it abruptly turned away and, as it
did so, it showed four things like fins on its belly-
side.  It went off at a hell of a pace, turned and
dived straight down into the Pacific, and went under,
throwing up a regular whirlpool of waves!  Just as
if it had been a submarine.  No, the Japs had
nothing in the amphibian line like that mysterious
bird."  (See FLYING SAUCERS UNCENSORED
by Harold T. Wilkins, Citadel Press, New York, NY
1955, pages 224-255.)

FUN UFO WEBSITES:
     For a look at the UFO scene in Japan, check out
Mizuki Tamura's new site.  Log in at this URL:
http://www.bekkoame.or.jp/~fitzroy/html/ufoe.html
     On Saturday, February 14, Ontario ufologist
Jennifer Jarvis launched her new site, ORBWATCH.
Check it out at http://www.per.to/orbwatch
     Our parent site, UFO INFO, has a great new
feature--a whole webpage devoted to the Irish UFO
Research Association (IUFORA).  For a look at
IUFORA's files on sightings and encounters in Eire,
go to http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/iufora/
files.shtml
     Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP are always
available for downloading at our website.  Just drop
in at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/
     Last week your editor mentioned a site devoted
to underground bases.  Several readers have
informed me that the URL for this site--http://www.
budget.net/~harbob/undbases.htm--cannot be
contacted.  Readers, please take note.

     And that's it for this week.  If you come across
a UFO story in your local newspaper, why not clip
it out and send it to our snail-mail address.  That's
UFO ROUNDUP, Box 16, 126 Toll Gate Road,
Warwick, Rhode Island, USA 02886.

     We'll be back next weekend with more saucer
news from "the paper that goes home--
UFO ROUNDUP."  See you then!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in
newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of the issue
in which the item first appeared.








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                          'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:26:06 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:51:38 -0500
Subject: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

A new question and answer session with myself  and Ray Santilli regarding
the alien autopsy film has now been added to our new web site. You can
access it at:

The Q&A has been added to the site at
http://www.beyondroswell.com/santilli.html

It is linked from within the article on the Introduction page.

All the best,

Philip Mantle.











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                 Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website

From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:36:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:30:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website


EBK and list,

Just wanted to let everyone know that the Oberg/Cooper Website has
been upgraded to include the following page which allows one to access
the information within the essays much more easily.

        http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/topicsaddr.html

An image of the topics is included below.

Additionally, links are included to outside data, discussions,
websites, etc., directly germane to each topic. It is my hope
researchers, and anyone interested in finding accurate, concise
information regarding various important issues and topics in ufology,
will find them useful.

Adjustments to background color on my website pages have been made in
an effort to make them more "readable."

These can all be accessed from the home page:

        http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/index.html

The entire site contains minimal graphics and is designed to get the
reader to the important information in an expeditious manner.

Respectfully,
Jerry Cohen

 Author: Oberg/Cooper rebuttals
         Robinson/Exeter rebuttal
Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen/
UFOmind: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

                         [Image of new page]

                  Important Topics from UFO History
                     Addressed via this Website

                (Page last updated: February 15, 1998)

  1. Reminds us that J. Allen Hynek was the main civilian scientist,
     hired by the Air Force, to debunk UFO cases to the public. Hynek
     found that a certain percentage of them refused his best efforts.
     He was the main civilian scientist closest to the Air Force data
     for approximately 20 years.

     _Dr. J. Allen Hynek - His life and a few of his accomplishments
     _Hynek page at UFOMind, California USA
     _Quotes from Hynek that show his evolution over the years


  2. Walter Webb is another astronomer who become interested in UFOs
     while working with Hynek on project "Moonwatch" back in the late
     1950's. He says the Baker-Nunn network did pick up anomalous
     trails in their later photos. Hynek described them as "oddities."

     _Comments from Walter Webb, Charles Hayden Planetarium, Boston


  3. Demonstrates that Hynek found cases in "Blue Book" that indicated
     that UFOs deserved to be studied in depth. Some cases described
     flight characteristics and behaviors that still mystify various
     military personnel familiar with our various aircraft.

     _Navy Case from "Blue Book" files - Hynek


  4. Presents several cases presented by both Hynek and Dr. James
     McDonald who's data indicated that some UFOs may well be advanced
     "craft," perhaps not of this earth. Here are two of them.
     "Kirtland," was analyzed by Project Blue Book, the Condon Study
     and Dr. James McDonald (University of Arizona).

     _Incident at Redlands, California (4 Feb 68) - Hynek
     _Analysis of "Kirtland" by Dr. James McDonald (see: Oberg/Cooper
       7b & 7c)
     _McDonald's Critique of the Condon Committee Evaluation of
       "Kirtland"
     _McDonald's Credentials


  5. Demonstrates that the Air Force's "Project Blue Book" was a
     "non-study," although as has already been demonstrated, it did
     accumulate important data. (After clicking and reading, please
     continue past the case you already read.)

     _Hynek takes us INSIDE "Blue Book"
     _What Hynek found when he reanalyzed the Blue Book cases
     _Where to obtain the Hynek UFO Report


  6. Demonstrates that Edward Condon's conclusions from the Colorado
     Study (the one and only Air Force sponsored civilian university
     study of UFOs) were erroneous. Although Condon found "against"
     UFOs being worthy of further study, the case data from the study
     actually found a greater number of unknowns than the Air Force
     was claiming at the time.

     _University of Colorado UFO Project (11/66-11/68)
     _Edward Condon page at UFOMind


  7. Here's an important reminder that Hynek and McDonald were not the
     only ones to disagree with the conclusions of the Colorado
     (Condon) Report.

     _Science groups who disagreed with the Condon conclusions and why
     _Why Dr. McDonald and NICAP disagreed with its conclusions
     _Why Hynek disagreed


  8. Demonstrates why NICAP (National Investigations Committee on
     Aerial Phenomena) was an organization to be taken seriously.

     _Brief Overview of NICAP
     _Richard Hall and his importance to Ufology (UFOMind, Ca., USA)
     _Where one can obtain a copy of the UFO Evidence


  9. Demonstrates by the accumulated data from previously displayed
     cases ("Navy", "Redlands", "Kirtland") plus two other cases
     occurring at the same general time period as Kirtland, a high
     probability that astronaut Gordon Cooper is telling the truth
     about his UFO sightings.

     _Sebago (11/6/57) - Stokes (11/6 or 7/57) - Kirtland (11/4/57)
     _Gordon Cooper page at UFOMind, CA. USA
     _Gordon Cooper: National Enquirer Article


 10. More than adequately demonstrates, via discussions with one of
     its creators, the "Earthlights" explanation for UFOs is incapable
     of explaining many CE II and III cases (CE = Close Encounter) as
     well as upper atmospheric ones.

     _Discussions with Paul Devereux archived at UFOMind, California
     _Other discussions with Mr. Devereux archived at my website

     Cites two specific cases as examples:

     _SKY THING (occurred 1960)
     _Exeter, N.H. - "Blue Book" version (1/2)
     _Exeter, N.H. - "Blue Book" version (2/2)


 11. Proves that simplistic explanations such as "fire balloons
     released by hoaxers" are incapable of solving the 1965 Exeter,
     New Hampshire series of sightings which has defied researchers'
     best attempts to find a reasonable solution for same.

     _A researcher claims he has solved Exeter
     _My analysis says his "Fire Balloon" explanation is "full of hot
       air"


 12. Presents specific data regarding the 1989/90 Belgium NATO
     sightings which unequivocally demonstrates that a "craft" of some
     type... was chased by jet aircraft, captured on radar and gun
     camera film, exhibited flight behavior well in excess of that
     which our present day aircraft are capable. The case impressed
     the Belgium NATO military enough for them to bring it to the
     public's attention. Note: This data is supportive of Hynek &
     McDonald's original discoveries.

     _Sighting by the Belgian Air force (NATO Division)
     _Why the Vulcan bomber doesn't fit the scenario
     _Description of the Vulcan bomber
     _Why ultra-lite "giant flying wings" don't fit the scenario (M.
       Cashman)


 13. As was previously demonstrated, the Belgium case was not the
     first military case to catch researchers' attention. Another case
     occurred in 1976 and was verified as being discussed within and
     between various governmental agencies via memos released under
     the "Freedom of Information" act.

     _The Iranian AF Jet Encounter
     _UFOWorld on the Iranian Encounter


 14. In an effort to "clear the air" regarding certain people's belief
     that Dr. Hynek was a "mole" for the Air Force, I offered the
     following. Anyone who still believes this about Hynek should
     definitely click below.

     _Why Hynek was not an "Intelligence mole"


 15. Demonstrates that CUFOS (Center for UFO Studies ), the
     organization formed formed in 1973 and led by Dr. J. Allen Hynek
     until his death in 1986, is also an organization which certainly
     deserves to be taken quite seriously.

     _Brief synopsis of CUFOS
     _CUFOS website



--------------------------------------------------------------------

_Author's Select Cases ( +1979/81 FOIA Releases)
_Questions and Answers

_Website Home Page










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   Feb > Feb 15

                  Re: Bell Holds Mass Telepathic 'UFO Call'

From: "Keith M. King" <alien2@sound.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:23:39
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:05:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell Holds Mass Telepathic 'UFO Call'

I imagine there are UFO sightings around the world on a
daily/nightly basis w/out the benefit of telepathic energy.
Most of them go unreported because people don't know what they're
looking at in order to ascertain if it should or should not be
there. Telepathic "phone-calls" is something I'm not that
familiar with but certainly won't rule out as a method for making
'contact'.

Keith M. King
M. King Studies









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                 Increasing Fireball Sightings - AP Article

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:06:12 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:38:03 -0500
Subject: Increasing Fireball Sightings - AP Article

More Fireballs Seen in the West
Sunday, February 15, 1998
The Associated Press

By MARTHA BELLISLE Associated Press Writer

DENVER (AP) -- The phone lines to Denver's Museum of Natural
History have been buzzing since a fireball streaked across the
Colorado sky last month.

That flash of light, caught on a homeowner's security camera, was
not an isolated incident; it was followed by at least four more
fireball sightings, said Jack Murphy of the museum's geology
department. He hopes to find pieces of the celestial objects for
the museum's collection.

As new reports of sightings keep coming in, scientists are
debating the meteorites' origin and the meaning of the increased
activity. There is more at stake, they say, than where a piece of
rock fell to the ground.

"These little things are the little brothers and sisters of the
bigger ones," said Doug Revelle, a scientist at Los Alamos
National Laboratory. "The reason for the interest is eventually a
big one is going to hit, a real big one. And the question is: Can
we protect ourselves?"

If a large meteor hit Earth, "life as we know it would be very
different," he said.

When a fireball fell into the Earth's atmosphere on Jan. 11, a
Front Range resident's home security camera documented the bright
light and shadows along with the sonic boom caused by the
apparent meteorite, Revelle said.

Scientists will use the time between the flash and boom -- 132
seconds -- to help determine where the meteorite touched down,
assuming it didn't burn out before landing.

Then, at about noon on Jan. 27, a commercial airline pilot flying
over Wyoming spotted "a ball of flame trailing smoke."

"He reported he did get some turbulence from the object," Jim
Patton, operations supervisor for the Federal Aviation
Administration's flight service center in Casper told the
Rawlins, Wyo., Daily Times. "He saw the debris and felt the shock
wave from it."

Residents in Breckenridge, Colo., also reported seeing that
daytime fireball. Murphy said they believe the space rock was
heading south to north and landed just north of Hanna, Wyo.

That night, another fireball broke into the Earth's atmosphere.

Scientists believe that meteorite came down in southern Colorado
or northern New Mexico, Murphy said. People in Breckenridge
spotted that fireball, too.

"That one was seen traveling east to west," Murphy said. "It has
been a long time since we've seen one moving like that."

Another meteorite was seen and heard at sunrise in eastern
Colorado on Jan. 30. And Murphy is investigating a report that
came in earlier this month.

So what's happening?

"I don't know," Murphy said. "We can't attribute it to anything.
But it is unusual to have so much activity."

University of Denver astronomer Robert Stencel suggested that
Earth may be getting pelted with pieces of the Hale-Bopp comet.
Early in January the Earth passed through the part of space the
comet had traveled.

"Comets are like kids with muddy boots," Stencel said. "They
leave a trail of debris in their wakes."

Meteorites from asteroids breaking out of the orbital belts
between Mars and Jupiter are made up of metals, mostly iron. A
meteorite from a comet would have a lighter element composition,
Stencel said.

Such space debris is rare and would be of great scientific value,
he said. Scientists will test the composition of the meteorites
-- if they can get their hands on them.

Revelle said he's excited about the meteorite activity, but he
can't account for it.

The reports describe a smoke trail following the fireballs -- or
bolides, which are exploding meteors.

"The smoke trail is an indication that the object was quite big
and strong," Revelle said. "Over the globe we see objects that
are about a meter across an average of only 12 times a year."

Last Oct. 10, a meteorite crashed near West Texas and New Mexico;
then on Dec. 9, a large fireball crashed near Greenland, and on
Dec. 13, a meteorite was seen across hundreds of miles, from
Minnesota and Wisconsin south into Iowa and northern Missouri.

Revelle said history may give us some insight into the meaning of
the increase in fireball activity.

About 60 million years ago, an asteroid crashed into the Earth
and kicked up enough dust to blot out the sun. Some scientists
believe this resulted in the death of more than 80 percent of all
animals and led to the extinction of dinosaurs.

"These events seem to occur every 60 million years, give or take
10 million," he said. "We're about three million years short of
60 million.

"In order to defend the Earth from a large meteor, we would need
to know about it while it was months away to deflect it," he
said. "If we knew about it when it was weeks away, it would be
too late."
End of article

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/








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                           Thank you, list members

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:39:21 +1030
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:47:05 -0500
Subject: Thank you, list members

****************************************************************


Dear UpDates Members,

Thank you for all the very positive comments that I have received
regarding our website that was launched on February 14th.

I only received one complaint regarding sound files. I apologize
for that. I am a musician, and like music. I did not conceive
"Orbwatch" as purely a UFO research report site. I wanted an
integrated media site.

Also, apologies to any Mackintosh user, and anyone with a screen
that gives less than 800 x 600 resolution, and 24-bit colour.

Mike is currently making adjustments to accommodate the users of
Microsoft Internet Explorer.

As I said, the site is only in its early stages, and we are
learning on the job, so to speak. Neither of us has done anything
like this before. Mike learned the coding as he went along, and I
am very grateful to him for the hundreds of hours that he has put
into this effort.

Very best wishes.

Jennifer Jarvis



--
"It's a kind of magic, it's a kind of magic,
 A kind of magic...One dream, one soul,
 One prize, one goal...
 One golden glance of what should be."

From: QUEEN "A Kind of Magic" album (1986)

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************








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   Feb > Feb 16

                 Re: FOIA - Latest Army Response to Gersten

From: UFOLAWYER1@aol.com [Peter Gersten]
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 01:43:10 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 07:36:05 -0500
Subject: Re: FOIA - Latest Army Response to Gersten


The following is the latest response from the Army:

DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
Freedom of Information and Privacy Acts Office
1725 Jefferson Davis Highway Suite 201
Arlington, Virginia 22202-4102

January 27, 1998

FOIA #98-0358

Peter A. Gersten, Esq.
7349 Via Paseo del Sur
Suite 515-194
Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Dear Mr. Gersten:

This letter is in response to your Freedom of Information Act
appeal, addressed to the Office of the General Counsel, and your
supplemental request, addressed to our office, both dated
November 3, 1997.This letter also refers to your initial request
dated September 10, 1997, and our response dated October 3, 1997.
 In your initial request you were seeking records that LTC Corso
refers to in his book entitled "Day After Roswell," and that were
allegedly maintained in the Army Office of the Chief of Research
and Development.  That Office's responsibilities now fall under
the Assistant Secretary of the Army for Research, Development and
Acquisition.  At the time your initial request was received, all
requests for UFO information were routinely being forwarded to
the Air Force for action by this office. This was due to the fact
that the Department of the Air force has been the lead agency in
responding to inquiries about Roswell.

Upon receipt of your appeal, for non search of records by the
Department of the Army, and your supplemental request for
documentation to prove that the requested records were
transferred to the Air Force, you were contacted by Darryll G.
Smith, of my staff.  Pursuant to that telephone conversation, our
office has agreed to re-visit your original request for possible
sources of information within Army.  We have assigned your
appeal, which we are now processing as your original request, and
supplemental Freedom of Information Act request, Case Number
98-0358 for control purposes.

In reviewing your initial request, it has been determined that
since the initial records may have been maintained by the Army
Office of the Chief of Research and Development, the following
agency may have records responsive to your request.  Therefore as
a matter under its purview, your request has been transferred to
that agency for action and direct reply to you:

Information Management Office
ATTN: SFAE-IMO
Research Development & Acquisition
103 Army Pentagon
Washington, D.C. 20310-0103

If this office can be of further assistance to you, please
contact Darryll G. Smith, of my staff, or myself, at the above
address.

Sincerely,

Rose Marie Christensen
Chief, Freedom of information And privacy Acts Office








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                            UFO Scotland Updated

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 07:03:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 07:03:46 -0500
Subject: UFO Scotland Updated

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:33:07 +0000
From: Dave Ledger <dledger@cableinet.co.uk>
To: updates@globalserve.net
Subject: UFO Scotland Updated


Hi, list members,

We are pleased to announce that UFO Scotland has merged with
Skysearch Scotland, from the Bonnybridge area in Scotland. The
organisation is run by Craig Malcolm who, together with various
other family members, has shot amazing footage from in and around
the Bonnybridge area over the last 6 years. Some of this footage
has been shown on various TV stations all around the world,and
even analysed by some of the worlds top video analysts,and
proclaimed to be authentic.

We will be working closely with Craig in the future and have even
managed to get two new "real video" clips from the Bonnybridge
area on our website, with more to follow shortly. Also we have
added some new witness reports complete with pictures etc, never
before seen on the internet.

Finally, I am attaching a still picture taken from a piece of
video footage that we recorded in September last year. It is an
interesting picture taken from a six minute piece of
footage,recorded over the River Forth in Kirkcaldy. A small
percentage of this particular footage can also be seen at the UFO
Scotland website.All the Scotland footage has been encoded using
the real video encoder at 28kbps.

I thank you all for your time and wish you all good health and
happiness. Keep looking to the skies.....

Dave Ledger.
--
==================================================================
Posted by: Dave Ledger dledger@cableinet.co.uk
Visit UFO SCOTLAND at http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger
ICQ pager http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4851425

Scotland Director for UFO Sky Searchers International.
Visit UFOSSI at http://www.midplains.net/~deeaob

THE TRUTH IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!.............BUT HOW FAR?
If you see someone without a smile......give them one of yours :-)
==================================================================


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--=====================_887648626==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"








   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 16

                       Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:13:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 07:26:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997


>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:19:37 -0800 (PST)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997


It is my understanding from Brit Elders that there are at least 2
dozen witnesses from all walks of life.

Analysis of the video has continued (sub rosa) since my intial
posts on various internet sites last fall.  The analysis confirms
the initial acceleration in no more than 1/30 sec and possibly in
1/60 sec.

The analysis also shows that the tilting that appears to be cause
by rotation of the symmetry axis about vertical (like precession
of a top) is at a 1 Hz rate and is continuous from the beginning
to the end of the video of the object, and can be fitted from the
beginning to th end with a single sine wave function.

Also it appears from analysis that the UFO made a nearly right
angle turn and traveled away from the camera during the last
seconds of its visibiliy (before going beind a tall building).
The next issue of th MUFON J will contain an update.

I don't know if the March showing on sightings will even mention
the analysis that has been carried out (no one has contacted me
about it).








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 16

                Some Questions about Korff's Book on Roswell

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:09:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:36:16 -0500
Subject: Some Questions about Korff's Book on Roswell


Forwarded Message:


From: JBONJO@aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:52:26 EST
To: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal K. Korff]
Subject: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

I am the Roswell UFO Crash Photographer that you quote in your
book, 'The Roswell UFO Crash -- What They Don't Want You to
Know'.  Since we never have met or had any conversation I am
curious and therefore am requesting the basis for several
statements published in your book:

"General Ramey allows the press to enter his office and
photograph the actual flying saucer wreckage, although they are
not allowed to touch it.  One of the photographers present is J.
Bond Johnson, who takes several pictures..." p.
28-29.

FACT: I was the ONLY photographer present to photograph the
wreckage in General Ramey's office.  In fact, NO OTHER
photographs ever have been produced of Ramey, DuBose and Marcel.
I was left alone in the office for a short time while awaiting
the arrival of General Ramey and during that period unwrapped a
package of the wreckage and did my best to arrange it for a
useful photo.

Incidentally, my hat -- I was the only civilian present so it
must have been my hat! -- is shown on the chair in the background
of several of the photos.

I did not take the Irving Newton photo and have no information as
to who did. It must have been taken subsequent to my arranging
the crash wreckage pieces since they obviously are still arranged
the same way on the floor of the general's office.  There have
been speculations that Newton was photographed by a FWAAF base
photographer after I left and that the photo then was released to
the press along with the "cover-up" press release on the evening
of 7/8/47, which quoted Newton.

--

"A short time later, the shredded remains of an ordinary weather
balloon are brought into Ramey's office and quickly substituted
for the real saucer wreckage," p. 29.

FACT: It has been well established by ufologist researchers that
there NEVER was any 'substitution' of any wreckage whatsoever.


--

"At the official press briefing that follows the 'bait and
switch' maneuver, General Ramey announces that the whole flying
saucer affair has been a mistake, and that the debris recovered
by Maj. Jesse Marcel is nothing more than the remains of a
weather balloon." p. 29.

FACT: There is no known record of ANY "press briefing" by General
Ramey other than the casual comments he made to me during my
photographing of him, Colonel DuBose and Major Marcel.  These
comments made only to me were a denial that he knew the nature of
the debris being photographed.

--

"THE BOND JOHNSON FACTOR ...At that time I was briefed on the
idea that it was not a flying disc as reported but in fact was a
weather balloon that had crashed....  Almost the first thing that
Ramey said was, "Oh, we've found out what it is, and you know,
it's a weather balloon." p. 125.

FACT: I have been quoted in the past as making statements similar
to these. There is no basis in fact as to these remarks, I never
have made any such statements since this does not in any way
coincide with any recollections or records that I have of my
visit to General Ramey's office on 7/8/47.

--

Your anticipated reply at the earliest possible time will be
greatly appreciated.

J. Bond Johnson

http://www.ufomind.com/people/j/johnsonj/
http://www.execpc.com/vjentpr/jbond.html













   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 16

                              Re: The Next Step

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> [John Velez]
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 02:20:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:17:48 -0500
Subject: Re: The Next Step

>From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Next Step
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:10:16 -1000


>> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: UFO UpDate: The Next Step [was: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb'...]
>> Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 3:24 AM

>> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:09:52 +1030
>> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>> >From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
>> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>> >Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:57:27 -1000

Aloha Tom,

You wrote,

>Thank you for your nice comments.  I agree with you.  This thread
>started when someone decided that judgements concerning the
>morality and ethics of a race of ETs could be made from an
>unidentifiable still photograph.  I disagreed with that, and
>still do, and suddenly I became a skeptic and started getting
>flame mail.

Expect it Tom! -Anytime- you try to apply a little common sense
or critical analysis in a public forum such as this you're
going to step on some toes and get called a "skeptic".

Par for the course! (I) have been called a "skeptic" myself and
I'm a self-professed abduction experiencer, so go figure! <G>

>All I want people to do is think with their minds instead of
>their emotions.  I don't think that is unreasonable, but you
>would be surprised at the number of people who do.

You bet! But have faith, I think they're outnumbered by
mostly rational, thoughtful people!

Least I hope so. <G>

Re: flame mail,. . .one of the sweet "built ins" of
Eudora (and many other) e-mail programs is the "filter"
feature! <G> Just set it up, let the poor bastard (who
has so little going on in their lives that all they do
is write you lengthy flames) know that all their e-mail
will be -trashed unread- and then send a copy of their
'flame' to you, to their post master along with a complaint!
If it's nasty enough they could get thrown off of their
server! Let em screw themselves. It never ceases to amaze
me at how much pure piss and vinegar some people can
manufacture and spew forth. (And they always do it with
such genuine -gusto- they soil themselves and feel a kind
of twisted/distorted version of self-pride!)

>I think that ufology should be treated as a science and not a
>religion but sometimes it is hard to separate the two.

I'll second that! Gotta go with what we have! "Science" for
all the beating that it takes is a valuable enough tool that
we shouldn't discard it out of hand. It's -far- from perfect
or at times even adequate, but it beats the hell out of
"channelled" information anyday! <G> Get my drift?

Peace/aloha,

John Velez






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                 Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website

From: JamesOberg@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:37:37 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:53:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website


>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:36:24 -0500
>To: " UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
>Subject: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website


>Just wanted to let everyone know that the Oberg/Cooper Website
>has been upgraded

Considering the low level of the pitiable "rebuttal" to my circa
1983 study of why Cooper's UFO stories (and stories _about_
Cooper and UFOs which do not originate from him) are not reliable
evidence for "true UFOs", any change is likely to be an
improvement.

Maybe I should feel 'honored' to have my name used for a
"Website" but it certainly is now without any permission or
agreement of mine.

However, it does make a good point: serious UFO 'debunking'
studies aren't answered or refuted, only danced around and made
half-witted fun of. That's something I won't argue with! ;-)







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                    Popular Science's Website - UFO 'Fun'

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:21:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:21:03 -0500
Subject: Popular Science's Website - UFO 'Fun'




Finding things slow these days? A chance to fill
the void with UFO 'Fun'..... <VBG>

From Popular Science's Website at:

http://www.popsci.com/roswell/

"Whatever crashed in Roswell 50 years ago is a matter of dispute.
But whatever happened then is making skeptics and believers flock
this July to New Mexico to celebrate the most legendary of UFO
crashes. Explore our database of people, locations, objects and
dates via our scavenger hunt game, answer our UFO poll questions,
post in our forums, browse the best Roswell links, and check out
Hollywood Online's top ten alien-invasion movies."





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                                Housekeeping

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:47:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:47:25 -0500
Subject: Housekeeping




Apologies for no-mail these past 24 hours.

Seems my ATI Mach 64 video-card and Soundblaster
AWE 64 having lived, grudgingly, together since
October of last year are now duking it out. (Sorry,
Peat!) Does anyone know why SB _insists_ on loading
the Emulation driver which then disables the audio-card
in Win95?

The resulting chaos, not being able to do multi-track
mixing/editing, having Computer Doctor here and trying
to figure out the Gates-Factors precluded any mail-runs.
Mail may be slightly delayed again today - another
house-call.





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                       Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:09:27 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:04:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997

>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:13:42 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>It is my understanding from Brit Elders that there are at least 2
>dozen witnesses from all walks of life.

>Analysis of the video has continued (sub rosa) since my intial
>posts on various internet sites last fall.  The analysis confirms
>the initial acceleration in no more than 1/30 sec and possibly in
>1/60 sec.

If you were to assume a minimal distance away for the UFO, a
little on the far side of the buildings, you would have a minimal
value for its speed after it got moving.  Then taking the 1/30
sec figure, you'd have a minimal value for its acceleration. What
would that turn out to be -- around 30 g?

>The analysis also shows that the tilting that appears to be cause
>by rotation of the symmetry axis about vertical (like precession
>of a top) is at a 1 Hz rate and is continuous from the beginning
>to the end of the video of the object, and can be fitted from the
>beginning to th end with a single sine wave function.

I guess that at least tells us that the UFO's operator was well
aware of our 1-second time unit.

>Also it appears from analysis that the UFO made a nearly right
>angle turn and traveled away from the camera during the last
>seconds of its visibiliy (before going beind a tall building).
>The next issue of th MUFON J will contain an update.

>I don't know if the March showing on sightings will even mention
>the analysis that has been carried out (no one has contacted me
>about it).

I'm sure that Brit et al. already had plenty of info on the event
to pack into a 45-min (1-hour) program, what with the story of
how Jaime received the video, his investigations, the many
witnesses they could put on in Spanish plus translations, and
with the video analyses of Dilettoso.

Jim Deardorff









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                    UFOSEARCH #10 -- UFO History; Part I

From: "Val Germann" <vhg@socket.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:38:47 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:58:12 -0500
Subject: UFOSEARCH #10 -- UFO History; Part I

  UFOSEARCH #10 -- UFO History; Part I

              Val Germann
          Columbia, Missouri

    ***  On The Uses Of History  ***

Everyone who writes history does so for a good reason, at least
as far as they are concerned, and this must not be forgotten.  In
the main I write history for two reasons:

1) To understand the present and,
2) In an attempt to estimate the future.

Cervantes said that prudent men should judge the future actions
of others based on what those others had done in the past. This
is good advice even today, providing only that you know what
those other folks in question actually did in the past!  That's
the rub! And that's what history is all about, at least for me.

That is, history to me is far from a mere recital of facts, a
piling up of reports from long ago.  No, it's not history until
those facts and reports are assembled into something useful,
perhaps into a secnario that helps make sense of the present and
aids in understanding what might happen in the future.

In this short series I will be looking at what happened in the
UFO arena in 1968, thirty years ago.  It is amazing how little
has changed since then, how little 'progress' has been made in
'ufology'.  A strong sense of 'deja vue' pervades a history of
1968, as so many were then looking to government agencies and to
government scientists for an end to the secrey surrounding UFOs.
And so it is today, never mind that 'the government' has slapped
'ufology' down again and again.

Like Russian peasants in the late 1800s, who said, "If only the
Czar knew how we are being oppressed, surely he would remove
these corrupt local officials and set us free;" the ufologists of
today appeal to the Czar, the government, in seeming ignorance of
the plain fact that their estate is _policy_ and not at all some
local accident.

***








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                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:42:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:13:48 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:59:35 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>There _is_ science in ufology.... although it is not always
>obvious. However, to see wat I mean, consider the "reverse
>Situation."

<snip>

>However, rarely _if_ever_ does a skeptic "test" the explanation'
>against the available sighting data.  Instead, what usually
>happens is that the skeptic finds an explanation for one part of
>th sghting and then "publishes"  (I can cite specific examples in
>my own experience if anyone is interested.) The general
>public/press/scientific community  then assmes the sighting has
>been explained and goes on its merry way.

I've experienced this first hand.  While living in the UK, I
investigated a sighting made by a reliable witness (a
coastguard), who saw, in al clear evening sky, a bright light
over the sea.  Its reflection in the water could be clearly seen,
and occasionally a beam of some sort seemed to strike tha water's
surface.  The local college physics prof. dismissed it (rather
predictably) as the planet Venus.  The problem? Venus was not at
elongation and therefore not visible.  Add to that the fact that
the witness was looking due east, and the explanation falls
apart.  When I politely tried to point this out to the prof, he
told me to stop wasting his time with crackpot nonsense.

> So where does the science come in?  In making the best
> comparison possible between the suggested explanation or
> explanations and the sighting data.

Well said.


> Where skeptics often go wrong is in failing to make this check of
> the explanation against the data.   VERY OFTEN THE SKEPTICS
> AREN'T SCIENTIFIC!!!

<snip>

> Where ufology goes awry is (a) in the tendency to be uncritical
> and claim a sighting to be unexplainable even when one or more
> valid explanations exists and (b) to take a supposedly
> unexplainable sighting and extrapolate beyond the available
> information to theories of who, where from, why, etc.  Such
> theorizing is NECESSARY.... but one shouldn't narrow down to a
> particular theory unless the data clearly warrant it.

Agreed.  Skepticism (in the most positive sense of the word) and
rigor ('extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof') should
be the watchwords of ufology. Skepticism has a bad name in
this field -- and deservedly so. I would simply state that we
should divorce the methodology (sound in itself) from the
practicioners who have brought it into disrepute (closed-minded
bigots, in many instances).











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                                     Re:

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:13:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:43:16 -0500
Subject: Re:



>From: JamesOberg@aol.com
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:37:37 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website


What's this? Someone named a web site after you, Jim, without
your permission?








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                     Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

From: Dave Kauble <dkauble@iquest.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:48:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:44:42 -0500
Subject: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

Hello List Members,

I just received a report and a photo which I think can only be
adequately defined by seeing the photo and report for oneself.
This was sent to me care of Deb's UFO Research Information
Clearinghouse, and I think it is something you definitely should
see and judge for yourselves.

The photo and account are located at:

http://www.debshome.com/PilotsIncredibleSighting.html

Thanks!

~Dave









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       UFO UpDate:DISPATCH # 83 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

From: ParaScope@AOL.COM
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:34:47 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:38:32 -0500
Subject: UFO UpDate:DISPATCH # 83 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

DISPATCH # 83 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope

 S O M E T H I N G   S T R A N G E   I S   H A P P E N I N G

 2/16/98

 Quote of the Week

 �The only thing I was trying to get was an autograph for one of my kids, but
 other than that I had no ulterior motive.''

 -- Clinton Administration National Security Adviser Sandy Berger on his
 meeting last year with a group of Scientologists, including
 actor/singer/dancer/lobbyist John Travolta. Berger declined to explain how
 autographs, Scientology or meetings with celebrities qualified as a national
 security concern.

 -----------------------

 Rant of the Week: �Cranks, Nuts and Screwballs�

 Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the
 hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present
 it to you as our Rant of the Week. This week, we�re please to present a
 diverse collection of �mini-rants� excerpts from �Cranks, Nuts and
 Screwballs,� a 1965 report by CIA operative David R. McLean detailing some of
 the more bizarre correspondence received by the agency. You can find an in-
 depth analysis and full details on the �Cranks, Nuts and Screwballs� report
 online in ParaScope�s Dossier section. Enjoy.

 "I have always had adequate sex that no one appreciated. I need a better grade
 of iron to eat, and so do the astronauts." (Excerpt from a July 1964 letter to
 the Director of Central Intelligence.)

 "A defenseless woman having husband trouble sincerely requests your help."
 (June 1964 letter to the DCI, enclosing picture of a convertible and address
 of a suburban motel.)

 "O.K.! Keep me off the payroll. I'll try and sell my abilities to the Soviet
 Union." (1965 postcard peevishly addressed to the U.S. Lower Intelligence
 Agency.)

 "Please be informed, old pal, I have entered my name with the 87th Congress as
 a candidate for the Presidency of the United States in the next elections. If
 I make it, I am going to reinstate you in CIA." (1962 letter to Allen W.
 Dulles.)

 "You can tell John A. McCone to go to hell if you think I'm
s way after all I've done for you people." (Early morning telephone
 call from "Agent 44" on his release from the drunk cell of a Washington police
 precinct.)

 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 Coming Up Next Week!

 Catch a number of great stories next week on a daily basis on America or all
 at once next Friday on the web site, including daily updates to our Conspiracy
 Newsline and Daily Dose features. Among the articles you'll want to check out:


 Dastardly Doings at Davos

 Davos, Switzerland. Site of the annual World Economic Forum. Ground zero for
 the global elite's fulfillment of its long-sought dream of a global economic
 infrastructure that is completely under their domination. ParaScope presents
 an overview of Davos 1998's key events, including the "Multinational Agreement
 on Infrastructure," the "final solution" offered by Western power-brokers to
 solve global banking woes.

 -----------------

 The Shaver Mystery

 From Inner Earth to the Grassy Knoll, the Shaver Mystery -- born in the pulpy
 pages of Amazing Stories -- has for years ensnared believers in its cleverly-
 marketed web of mythology. Indeed, it was through the Shaver Mystery that the
 groundwork of alien abductions and extraterrestrial flying saucers was laid.
 Some of the very foundations of ufology, as well as the rumors of underground
 alien bases at Dulce, New Mexico, were all set in the firm cement of the
 Shaver Mystery. Richard Toronto, veteran researcher of Shaver lore, shares his
 first-hand knowledge on this controversial topic.

 -----------------

 Cry �Havoc!� and Let Loose the Pies of War

 Which one of us hasn�t at some point yearned to smack Microsoft Chairman
 �Dollar� Bill Gates square in the face with a giant cream pie? Sure, we�ve
 also probably wanted to eviscerate him with a rusty carving knife, but you
 don�t get the electric chair for smacking someone with a pie. The recent pie
 attack by Noel Godin and his associates on Gates is the first exposure many
 Americans have had with the subversive world of pieing. But it turns out
 subversives here
gh and mighty for years.
 Yet the mainstream media has scarcely covered these brilliantly inspired
 protests. Did you know, for instance, that every Watergate conspirator except
 for Tricky Dick himself fell victim to guerrilla pie attacks. D. Trull
 explores the world of pie flinging as politico-social protest and the apparent
 conspiracy of silence on the part of the media in failing to cover the pie
 agenda.


 ...All this, and much, much more!

 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing!

 Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize
 you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway?
 Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe
 yourself from Dispatch:

 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com

 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch

 That's all there is to it!

 Likewise, to subscribe:

 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com

 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch

 ----------------------------------------

 ParaScope
 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904
 Studio City, CA 91604

 America Online -- keyword: parascope
 parascope@aol.com

 World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com
 info@parascope.com








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                              Re: The Next Step

From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:56:05 -1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:36:21 -0500
Subject: Re: The Next Step


> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 02:20:17 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> [John Velez]
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Next Step

> >From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
> >To: <updates@globalserve.net>
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Next Step
> >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:10:16 -1000


> >> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:09:52 +1030
> >> From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
> >> To: updates@globalserve.net
> >> Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

> >> >From: "Tom Burnett" <burnettc@gte.net>
> >> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
> >> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> >> >Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:57:27 -1000

> Aloha Tom,

> You wrote,

> >Thank you for your nice comments.  I agree with you.  This thread
> >started when someone decided that judgements concerning the
> >morality and ethics of a race of ETs could be made from an
> >unidentifiable still photograph.  I disagreed with that, and
> >still do, and suddenly I became a skeptic and started getting
> >flame mail.

> Expect it Tom! -Anytime- you try to apply a little common sense
> or critical analysis in a public forum such as this you're
> going to step on some toes and get called a "skeptic".

Aloha John....

Yes, well I'm about ready to opt myself out of public forums.  By
now I know the people who have intelligent and constructive
opinions and I can communicate with them privately.  Having said
that, please do not think that I value my own opinions as more
valuable or constructive than anyone elses, but I flatter myself
that they are as objective as I can make them.

> Par for the course! (I) have been called a "skeptic" myself and
> I'm a self-professed abduction experiencer, so go figure! <G>

Your personal experience does not matter.  You are a skeptic if
you do not accept as gospel every crackpot dream that anyone
relates.  I think there was something in Psych 301 about people
who are compelled to be right about everything they say.

> >All I want people to do is think with their minds instead of
> >their emotions.  I don't think that is unreasonable, but you
> >would be surprised at the number of people who do.

> You bet! But have faith, I think they're outnumbered by
> mostly rational, thoughtful people!

> Least I hope so. <G>

You are only fooling yourself....<g>

> Re: flame mail,. . .one of the sweet "built ins" of
> Eudora (and many other) e-mail programs is the "filter"
> feature! <G> Just set it up, let the poor bastard (who
> has so little going on in their lives that all they do
> is write you lengthy flames) know that all their e-mail
> will be -trashed unread- and then send a copy of their
> 'flame' to you, to their post master along with a complaint!
> If it's nasty enough they could get thrown off of their
> server! Let em screw themselves. It never ceases to amaze
> me at how much pure piss and vinegar some people can
> manufacture and spew forth. (And they always do it with
> such genuine -gusto- they soil themselves and feel a kind
> of twisted/distorted version of self-pride!)

No, everyone has been kind enough to sign their mail, and I
wouldn't want to filter anyone out in any case, because as much
as I may disagree with them, they might be right and I will never
know if I don't look at all sides of the issue.  Almost no one
can be right much more than 50% of the time when a question of
choice is involved. I want to learn everything I can so that I
can make good decisions.

> >I think that ufology should be treated as a science and not a
> >religion but sometimes it is hard to separate the two.

> I'll second that! Gotta go with what we have! "Science" for
> all the beating that it takes is a valuable enough tool that
> we shouldn't discard it out of hand. It's -far- from perfect
> or at times even adequate, but it beats the hell out of
> "channelled" information anyday! <G> Get my drift?

I'm not sure what you mean, John....Let me get out my Ouija board
and ask the Septuagenarians <snicker>.

Mahalo
Tom Burnett



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                                 BAR 199802

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:28:03 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:45:26 -0500
Subject: BAR 199802

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

February, 1998 (Volume 1, #2)

Sue Kovach, author of last month's FEATURED TITLE, HIDDEN FILES (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0809231212/bufosweirdworldA/">
Hidden Files : Law Enforcement's True Case Stories of the Unexplained an</A> )
was nice enough to drop me a note.  She explained that she had not written the
caption which I had questioned (regarding Bigfoot), but said that it had been
provided to her by the Associated Press, from whom she had gotten the picture.

Books mentioned in BAR can be ordered on most e-mail systems by clicking on
the hyperlink title.  This will take you to the book at Amazon.com.  You can
read more about it at that point and decide if you want to order it.  If you
do, you add it to your "shopping cart".  Then, if you want another title
mentioned here, please click on it in this post.  If you have questions,
please e-mail Bufo at bufocalvin@aol.com.

In this issue: Featured Title, Other Titles by the Same Authors, Recent
Releases, and Most Intriguing.


FEATURED TITLE:

THE MONTAUK PROJECT (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0963188909/bufosweirdworldA/">
The Montauk Project : Experiments in Time</A> )
Subtitle: EXPERIMENTS IN TIME
by Preston B. Nichols, with Peter Moon
Originally published June 1992
Trade (large-size) paperback, 156 pages
Some illustrations and photographs, NO index, NO bibliography
List Price: $15.95, Amazon Price* $12.76
Have you ever heard a little kid tell a lie and just get really carried away?
You know, it starts out simple, and suddenly Superman and Barney and a fire-
breathing dragon get involved?  Note that I am not saying that this book is a
lie, but it seems like one of those stories.  I'd heard about it for some
time, and been intrigued.  Some of you know that I have written articles
examining time travel as a possible explanation for various paranormal
phenomena.  I knew this book had to do with time travel, and a link between
the alleged events known as the Philadelphia Experiment (in which a ship
supposedly vanished and reappeared in 1943 during wartime invisibility
experiments) and another, much more recent project.  I knew some about the
story, and understood that it was convoluted.  Well, I had no idea how
convoluted it was!  Let's see...for starters, one of the people involved was a
crewperson on the U.S.S. Eldridge (the Philadelphia Experiment ship) in 1943,
but then was a psychic in 1983 (his psychic abilities were used to make the
time effect work), then aged really rapidly, then his soul
(essentially...pardon the loose terminology) was transferred into a second
child which his father was convinced to have in order to provide a body for
the transfer, although the child was raised by unsuspecting foster parents,
when that child was eleven in 1963.  I think that's all correct, but don't
hold me to it.  This book also brings in Tesla, and Reich, and aliens (two
different types...we don't see them, but their technologies are used by the
project), and what appear to be the Nordic-type aliens (although they are
actually American Nazi selected participants), and the Face on Mars, and
Alternative Three, and magic, and the ether, and sort of the Monster from the
ID from FORBIDDEN PLANET, etc.  It's quite a hodge-podge, with a few
photographs of equipment (and of the monster, which looks like a very out-of-
focus ape suit), and some technical jargon thrown in as evidence.  Now, I'm
not going to tell you that this is not true material...I'm sure some people
believe it (although I  would guess primarily for intuitive reasons).  It's
simply primarily anecdotal.  If it's fiction, it's a fairly-cleverly
constructed world.  If it's reality, it's absolutely extraordinary.

OTHER TITLES BY THE SAME AUTHORS:

-MONTAUK REVISITED: ADVENTURES IN SYNCHRONICITY (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0963188917/bufosweirdworldA/">
Montauk Revisited: Adventures in Synchronicity</A> )
Book Two of the trilogy brings in Aleister Crowley and more Magick
-PYRAMIDS OF MONTAUK: EXPLORATIONS IN CONSCIOUSNESS (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0963188925/bufosweirdworldA/">
Pyramids of Montauk: Explorations in Consciousness</A> )
Book Three...the discovery of pyramids on Long Island brings in Atlantis and
Sirius
-BLACK SUN, MONTAUK'S NAZI-TIBETAN CONNECTION (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0963188941/bufosweirdworldA/">
Black Sun; Montauk's Nazi-Tibetan Connection</A>
- ENCOUNTER IN THE PLEIADES: AN INSIDE LOOK AT UFOS (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0963188933/bufosweirdworldA/">
Encounter in the Pleiades: An Inside Look at UFOs</A> )
"Oh yeah, did I mention I went to college on another planet?"
-MONTAUK: THE ALIEN CONNECTION (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0963188984/bufosweirdworldA/">
Montauk: The Alien Connection</A> )
May be by Moon alone.  May also be the fifth book in the "trilogy"...not
surprising in this case.

RELATED TITLES
Well, this could take in just about everything, but I thought I'd throw in at
least a few
-PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT, PART 1 (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=6304349343/bufosweirdworldA/">
Philadelphia Experiment, Part 1 (Bielek) (video)</A> )
-PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT, PART 2 (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=6304349351/bufosweirdworldA/">
Philadelphia Experiment, Part 2 (Bielek) (Video)</A> )
-PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT AND OTHER UFO CONSPIRACIES
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0938294970/bufosweirdworldA/
">Philadelphia Experiment and Other UFO Conspiracies`</A>
by Brad Steiger, although the MONTAUK PROJECT claims Bielek was one of the
authors
-PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT CHRONICLES (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0938294008/bufosweirdworldA/">
Philadelphia Experiment Chronicles</A> )
By the mysterious Commander X
-THE PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT: PROJECT INVISIBILITY (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0449214710/bufosweirdworldA/">
The Philadelphia Experiment: Project Invisibility</A> )
by Charles Berlitz (of Bermuda Triangle fame) and William Moore
This is the one that really started the controversy...these two authors also
co-wrote the first book on the Roswell Incident (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0425126021/bufosweirdworldA/">
The Roswell Incident</A> )
-EL MISTERIO DE FILADELFIA (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=8401450381/bufosweirdworldA/">
El Misterio de Filadelfia (PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT en Espanol)</A> )
----------------
RECENT RELEASES

MAGICAL PASSES: THE PRACTICAL WISDOM OF THE SHAMANS OF ANCIENT MEXICO (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0060175842/bufosweirdworldA/">
Magical Passes: the Practical Wisdom of the Shamans of Ancient Mexico</A> )
by Carlos Castaneda
Hardback, 288 Pages
February, 1998 (from HarperCollins)
The latest book from Castaneda
List Price: $25.00, Amazon Price*: $17.50

MIRACLES OF MIND: EXPLORING NON-LOCAL CONSCIOUSNESS AND SPIRITUAL HEALING (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1577310705/bufosweirdworldA/">
Miracles of Mind :Exploring Nonlocal Consciousness and Spiritual Healing</A> )
by Russel Targ and Jane Katra
Hardback, 272 pages
February, 1998 (from New World Library)
List Price: $24.95, Amazon Price*: $17.47
Targ is a well-respected parapsychologist.

CHILDREN'S PAST LIVES: HOW PAST LIFE MEMORIES AFFECT YOUR CHILD (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=055357485X/bufosweirdworldA/">
Childen's Past Lives: How Past Life Memories Affect Your Child</A> )
by Carol Bowman
Paperback, 384 pages
February, 1998 (from Bantam Books)
List Price: $6.50, Amazon Price* $5.20

A CHANGE OF HEART: A MEMOIR (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0446604690/bufosweirdworldA/">
A Change of Heart: A Memoir</A> )
by Claire Sylvia and William Novak
Paperback, 304 Pages
March, 1998 (reissue) (from Warner Books
List Price: $6.50, Amazon Price*: $5.20
I've heard her interviewed.  She had an organ transplant, and then believes
that she began to take on some of the characteristics (such as particular
appetites) and memories of her donor.  She eventually met the parents of the
donor, and feels that there was confirmation that there was in some sense a
partial transfer of personality.

THE BIBLE AND FLYING SAUCERS (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1569247455/bufosweirdworldA/">
The Bible and Flying Saucers</A> )
by Barry Downing
Paperback, 224 Pages
February 1998 (reissue) from (Shooting Star Press)
List Price: $13.95, Amazon Price*: $11.16
This is a reprint of a classic which reinterprets passages from the Bible
(notably Ezekial) as encounters with extraterrestrial spacecraft.

--------------------

MOST INTRIGUING

Last Month's Most Visited Titles at Bufo's WEIRD WORLD BOOKS included:

-THE ENIGMA OF LOCH NESS: MAKING SENSE OF A MYSTERY (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0252060318/bufosweirdworldA/">
The Enigma of Loch Ness: Making Sense of a Mystery</A> )
What I consider to be one of the best books on Loch Ness...nice even-handed
treatment, great survey of sightings
-THE THREAT: THE SECRET ALIEN AGENDA (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0684814846/bufosweirdworldA/">
The Threat : The Secret Alien Agenda</A> )
Latest book from David Jacobs
-ON THE TRACK OF UNKNOWN ANIMALS (
<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0710304986/bufosweirdworldA/">
On the Track of Unknown Animals</A> )
Bernard Heuvelmans classic
------------

*Prices are set by Amazon.com.  Clicking on the link will take you to their
current listing and reflect the current price.

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert or Bufo's WEIRD WORLD the same way.  Bufo's WEIRD
 WORLD Books is in Association with Amazon.com.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.
______________________________









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   Feb > Feb 17

                Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle]
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:31:21 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:25:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:09:40 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

>Forwarded Message:

>From: JBONJO@aol.com
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:52:26 EST
>To: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal K. Korff]
>Subject: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

>I am the Roswell UFO Crash Photographer that you quote in your
>book, 'The Roswell UFO Crash -- What They Don't Want You to
>Know'.  Since we never have met or had any conversation I am
>curious and therefore am requesting the basis for several
>statements published in your book:


This is really a fight that I would like to avoid but there are
some allegations made here that simply are not true. J. Bond
Johnson was, in fact, one of the photographers. There was
obviously more than one as his own statement makes clear, though
not necessarily at the same time. However, the point is that I
have, on audio tape, the original statements made by Johnson that
are in direct conflict with what he says today. The point is, I
do have the tapes, and more to the point, Johnson has heard them.
In fact, he has copies of the pertinent statements.

>"General Ramey allows the press to enter his office and
>photograph the actual flying saucer wreckage, although they are
>not allowed to touch it.  One of the photographers present is J.
>Bond Johnson, who takes several pictures..." p.
>28-29.

>FACT: I was the ONLY photographer present to photograph the
>wreckage in General Ramey's office.  In fact, NO OTHER
>photographs ever have been produced of Ramey, DuBose and Marcel.
>I was left alone in the office for a short time while awaiting
>the arrival of General Ramey and during that period unwrapped a
>package of the wreckage and did my best to arrange it for a
>useful photo.

>Incidentally, my hat -- I was the only civilian present so it
>must have been my hat! -- is shown on the chair in the background
>of several of the photos.

>I did not take the Irving Newton photo and have no information as
>to who did. It must have been taken subsequent to my arranging
>the crash wreckage pieces since they obviously are still arranged
>the same way on the floor of the general's office.  There have
>been speculations that Newton was photographed by a FWAAF base
>photographer after I left and that the photo then was released to
>the press along with the "cover-up" press release on the evening
>of 7/8/47, which quoted Newton.


Johnson has always maintained that he was the only photographer
present when he shot the pictures of General Ramey and Colonel
DuBose. This is the first time that he has suggested that he
unwrapped the debris and spread it out.

Interestingly, he claimed, originally, that he had shot one
picture of Ramey and one picture of Ramey and DuBose. Then, he
decided that he had shot two pictures of Ramey and two of Ramey
and DuBose. This seems logical based on the photographs.

Now he claims he shot two of Ramey, two of Ramey and DuBose and
two of Marcel. He said, originally that he had not taken the
pictures of Marcel and didn't know who did. Now he claims
responsibility for all six.

BTW the civilian hat only appears in a single photograph.

>"A short time later, the shredded remains of an ordinary weather
>balloon are brought into Ramey's office and quickly substituted
>for the real saucer wreckage," p. 29.

>FACT: It has been well established by ufologist researchers that
>there NEVER was any 'substitution' of any wreckage whatsoever.


There is no well established fact that there was NEVER any
substitution of wreckage. Colonel DuBose, on video tape, and in
interviews with disinterested third parties said there was a
substitution.  DuBose, in fact, signed a letter saying that the
debris had been switched. Johnson is quite wrong here and is,
quite frankly, offering the Moore and Shandera scenario again.

>"At the official press briefing that follows the 'bait and
>switch' maneuver, General Ramey announces that the whole flying
>saucer affair has been a mistake, and that the debris recovered
>by Maj. Jesse Marcel is nothing more than the remains of a
>weather balloon." p. 29.

>FACT: There is no known record of ANY "press briefing" by General
>Ramey other than the casual comments he made to me during my
>photographing of him, Colonel DuBose and Major Marcel.  These
>comments made only to me were a denial that he knew the nature of
>the debris being photographed.

Except for Colonel DuBose's statements that there had been
a number of reporters at the FWAAF who talked to Ramey.
There are other stories printed in the other Dallas -Fort
Worth newspapers that are not from Johnson. There is also
a number of radio reports, including one from ABC News that
suggests that other reporters were in Ramey's office. Therefore
Ramey and members of his staff were talking to other reporters. His
tale is interesting but not unique. He wants to be the only reporter
who was there.

>"THE BOND JOHNSON FACTOR ...At that time I was briefed on the
>idea that it was not a flying disc as reported but in fact was a
>weather balloon that had crashed....  Almost the first thing that
>Ramey said was, "Oh, we've found out what it is, and you know,
>it's a weather balloon." p. 125.

>FACT: I have been quoted in the past as making statements similar
>to these. There is no basis in fact as to these remarks, I never
>have made any such statements since this does not in any way
>coincide with any recollections or records that I have of my
>visit to General Ramey's office on 7/8/47.

I wonder if he would like to hear the tape again. Not only did he
make comments similar to these, there are exactly what he said. I
have the tapes with the comments and I was careful in the
transcription because this was at the time that Moore and
Shandera were talking about their new star witness. At that point
Johnson moved from having seen only a weather balloon to having
photographed the real debris. But the point is, I have the
comments on audio tape and know exactly what he said. When
confronted with that information, he stuttered and evaded, but
had no answer, accusing me of getting the quotes wrong.

What he said to me, once again on tape is, "I posed General Ramey
with this debris. At that time I was briefed on the idea that it
was not a flying disk as first reported but in fact was a weather
balloon that had crashed."

I can bury this guy at any point because of the audio tapes. You
can hear him changing his story after he talked to Moore and
Shandera. And then you can hear him try to suggest I was wrong,
even when I was quoting from his own words.

You know, his comments about having never made any such comments
really annoy me since we went through this, meaning Johnson and
me, about three years ago. I sent him a copy of the quotes, on
tape, so that he could hear his own voice making the quotes. He
said it, plainly.

Now he's back with a new and even better story. But the point is
originally, he just hopped over to the air base, took two... no
four...no six pcitures and was told that it was a weather
balloon. Now, he wasn't told that but his own words sink his new
story.

Thought you might find these thoughts interesting.

KRandle








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   Feb > Feb 17

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #224

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 06:57:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:48:06 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #224

Apology to MW #224 (For February 17, 1998)

The moon was full behind me, and I was looking east; the stars
stuck fast in cool-ish air like the eyes of wary beasts. Just
sipping on my coffee, and thinking on my son, who's up and joined
the Air Force (?), putting college on the run. He'll crew the
flying mantas that are terror in the skies; he takes the road I'd
chosen, and he'll fiddle with what flies=85

All at once a flaming bolus split the night in quick descent! I
could almost smell it burning like a solder gun that's spent. I
listened in the quiet for the tell tale sound of passage, and
heard the booms transonic like a prophet's voice of presage!

I saw it then a small white light that grew in it's intensity; it
didn't move, got bright as hell -- it had a strange propensity.
It winked out when the brilliance made me raise my hands alarmed,
though I reveled in its strangeness. I was gladdened, frightened,
charmed. I see the damnedest things in skies I know are without
end. Where anything can happen, it's an open mind's your only
friend.

~~~

The light winked out, but then resolved to the structure of a
craft! It drifted quickly downward on a silent swooping track.
Reflecting silver moonbeams, it grew in girth and size. The color
and the detail -- it stopped my breath, it filled my eyes.

With nary a bump it stopped with a thump, afloat in the air,
overhead! Rubbed eyes are no cure, I am slackjawed, demure, (no
terror, no horror, some dread).  Another few inches my house is
destroyed! I'm concerned beyond measure, and a little annoyed
that I think of the house, a possession, a toy, when enigma comes
calling, and I'm _not_ overjoyed.

And I'm not overjoyed at this prospect of contact I've studied
and dreamed of 'till now!  It's here in my face, no warm up or
warning; it'll upset my life, friend, and how! It'll freak out
the wife, and derail my son; I'll never get work as a teacher
begun=85

I look again -- it's hanging like my house's second story, though
the normal sounds of night go undisturbed. The dog's are still
not barking, doves still coo their late contentment; the night
goes on, unbothered -- unperturbed. I'm the only one that sees it
(?), and the only one upset (?), and fill my lungs with air to
shout for help! Then a thought comes in my mind, and it is
mannered, cruel (?), but kind, and I don't produce a whimper or a
yelp=85

                                      Lehmberg@snowhill.com

If it happened to me =85I haven't a clue what I'd do. The personal
responsibility of the occurrence is weighty. Additionally, you
become another whacked out saucer nut with a disturbing story
_not_ interesting enough to get on Art Bell's show. Meanwhile --
anomaly festers while I speculate on what can be cruel and kind
at the same time. Maybe someone with disturbing news that tries
to break it to you in the best possible way=85some ethical doctors
must be cruel to be kind -- but, it'll be like anything else in
that you'll be taking the good with the bad. And the good could
be magical.

Children may be children and adults may be adults only because of
the difference in technologies between them. Young children are
at a very primitive technological level compared to their parents
and teachers -- Brainiacs capable of feats reserved for super
beings, able to weave scary magics the children can see in moving
pictures before their eyes, protectors that never know defeat
(for the lucky ones).

I rankle at being treated like a child, but if I'm acting like a
child perhaps it is justified. Wow -- that was the first time I
used myself as a metaphor for humanity =85 delicious feeling! Come
what may, _we_ are the children in this sector of space!

Free John Ford.

~~~
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake, a victim of children.









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   Feb > Feb 17

                    UFOSEARCH #11 -- UFO History; Part II

From: "Val Germann" <vhg@socket.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:38:29 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:08:59 -0500
Subject: UFOSEARCH #11 -- UFO History; Part II

           UFOSEARCH #11 -- UFO History; Part II

                         Val Germann
                      Columbia, Missouri

        ***  Buildup To 1968; The Age Of  Zamora ***

Thirty years ago this month I was a freshman in college and
What I call The Age Of Zamora was nearly four years old.
Public interest in (and even fear of) UFOs was still very high,
Though not as high as it had been earlier, say in the summer
Of 1966, in the wake of Allen Hynek's "swamp gas" blunder.

The year 1968 would see full-blown Congressional hearings
concerning UFOs, and full-blown PhDs would tesitfy, at
Length, as to the reality and significance of UFOs.  But it
did not matter as the Condon Commission report (which
everyone was already waiting for as 1968 began) would put
the kabosh on UFOs in a big way at the end of 1969.  The
Congress was shown to have no real power where UFOs were
concerned.  No, that power, if any, resided in the executive
and with the military, and that was the end of that.

Dr. James McDonald had already found that out, having
been shown the report of the Robertson Committee, which
had met back in 1953.  That group, made up of several
scientists with strong connections to the CIA and NSA,
recommended that the UFO be debunked in public, and it
had been made so.   By the time of the Zamora incident in
1964, the UFO had been nearly dead for a decade, only a
brief flap in 1957 having broken the relative silence, at
least here in the USA.

I well remember 1964, but not for Zamora.  What I still
remember from that year are the build-up in Vietnam,
the first of the big 1960s race riots and, finally, the
Presidential election: Goldwater vs. Johnson.   As for
UFOs, the big run-up would begin in February of
1965, in New England, and spread in a huge wave to
most of the country by the summer.  By July of '65
UFOs were front page news yet again.

***








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   Feb > Feb 17

                       Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997

From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock]
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:53:43 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:15:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997


>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:13:42 -0500
>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>I don't know if the March showing on Sightings will even mention
>the analysis that has been carried out (no one has contacted me
>about it).


Actually, the show on this is a special being produced by Triage
Entertainment for UPN.  Triage also does 'Sightings'.







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                       Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:04:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:01:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997


>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:09:27 -0800 (PST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997

>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:13:42 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Mexico City UFO of 8/6/1997
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>It is my understanding from Brit Elders that there are at least 2
>>dozen witnesses from all walks of life.

>>Analysis of the video has continued (sub rosa) since my intial
>>posts on various internet sites last fall.  The analysis confirms
>>the initial acceleration in no more than 1/30 sec and possibly in
>>1/60 sec.

>If you were to assume a minimal distance away for the UFO, a
>little on the far side of the buildings, you would have a minimal
>value for its speed after it got moving.  Then taking the 1/30
>sec figure, you'd have a minimal value for its acceleration. What
>would that turn out to be -- around 30 g?

Yes, about 26 g's at 1/30 sec; twice that at 1/60.

>>The analysis also shows that the tilting that appears to be cause
>>by rotation of the symmetry axis about vertical (like precession
>>of a top) is at a 1 Hz rate and is continuous from the beginning
>>to the end of the video of the object, and can be fitted from the
>>beginning to th end with a single sine wave function.

>I guess that at least tells us that the UFO's operator was well
>aware of our 1-second time unit.

Not necessarily.   The exact oscillation rate, assuming the frame
rate is exactly 1/30 sec (depends upon crystal oscillator in the
camera), is..... 1.065 Hz.










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   Feb > Feb 17

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:50:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:36:20 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>From: Ufojoe1@aol.com [Joe Murgia]
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:51:13 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

>How can anybody be so sure of something that they
>weren't even present at? You may be right but you may
>be wrong. Your response didn't seem to leave open the
>possibility of the latter.

I can be damned certain of lens flare when I see it. And I was
saying to toss the photo in the circular file, which I still
believe.  The story is another matter.

>Why didn't you write something like this: "Alex, my
>experience with cameras and photography lead me
>to believe that the object in your photo may very well
>be the product of a lens flare. I could be wrong but
>that's what it looks like to me. Maybe you missed
>the actual orb and got the lens flare instead. Try to
>recreate the conditions at the time the photo was
>taken and see if lens flare occurs again. Good luck."

Simple lack of time. I often don't have time to write detailed
responses. In fact, it is a real stretch for me to come here at
all. If I did not know that UFOs are real, but most "evidence"
either fake or misinterpretations I would not be here.

>I know you wrote something similar in future emails
>but the line "Nope. Lens Flare. Plain and Simple."
>really made my blood boil and made me think of
>the Air Force's cavalier answers at the "recent"
>Roswell, Case Closed press conference.

>So that's why I responded so strongly to your
>post. I hope no offense is taken. I realize you're
>trying to get to the truth along with all of us.

>Joe

Yep, truth is what I am after, not religion. Important
distinction that many do not seem able to make.

Bob









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   Feb > Feb 17

                   Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: JJ <fierycelt@full-moon.com> [Jennifer Jarvis]
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:41:22 +1030
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:46:25 -0500
Subject: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


> From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
> To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:42:33 -0500


Brian wrote:

> I've experienced this first hand.  While living in the UK, I
> investigated a sighting made by a reliable witness (a
> coastguard), who saw, in al clear evening sky, a bright light
> over the sea.  Its reflection in the water could be clearly seen,
> and occasionally a beam of some sort seemed to strike tha water's
> surface.

Hi there Brian !

I am fascinated to read what you have said here regarding the
bright light over the sea.  You  mention that a beam of some
sort was striking the water's surface.

I have seen exactly the same phenomenon numerous times, with
many colleagues. One of these people is a member of this list,
and he could possibly  corroborate this statement.  Also, I
have succeeded in documenting some of these events on video tape.

> The local college physics prof. dismissed it (rather
> predictably) as the planet Venus.

Our lights, with attendant beams, are certainly not Venus, as
that planet is rarely seen quite so close to the water's
surface!

Very best wishes,

Jennifer Jarvis

--
"It's a kind of magic, it's a kind of magic,
 A kind of magic...One dream, one soul,
 One prize, one goal...
 One golden glance of what should be."

From: QUEEN "A Kind of Magic" album (1986)

*******************************************
Please visit our website "ORBWATCH" at

http://www.per.to/orbwatch

*******************************************







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   Feb > Feb 17

              Re: Some Questions about Korff's Book on Roswell

From: Scott Hale <shale@columbus.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:18:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:40:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Some Questions about Korff's Book on Roswell

Phillip Mantle wrote:

> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:09:40 +0000
> From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

> Forwarded Message:

> From: JBONJO@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:52:26 EST
> To: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal K. Korff]
> Subject: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

> I am the Roswell UFO Crash Photographer that you quote in your
> book, 'The Roswell UFO Crash -- What They Don't Want You to
> Know'.  Since we never have met or had any conversation I am
> curious and therefore am requesting the basis for several
> statements published in your book:

These statements are a compilation of various conspiracy theories
reported to have taken place in association with the Roswell
crash. Mr. Korff's book sets out to show that a weather balloon
was the culprit in this series of events. It doesn't appear as if
you have even taken a cursory look at the rest of the material in
his book. I don't particularly believe either theory about
Roswell is substantial enough to call the case solved, but you
should at least take a look at what the book's thesis is.

On page 16 of Korff's book: "In constructing the Roswell
'timeline' of events presented in this chapter, I have combined
all the divergent claims that exist among the seven major books
that have been written about the topic." Korff doesn't support
the UFO theory, so you're actually being critical of someone who
holds your view of the case at hand.

Hope I helped,
Scott K. Hale








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   Feb > Feb 17

                 Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:13:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:06:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website



>From: JamesOberg@aol.com
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:37:37 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website


What's this? Someone named a web site after you, Jim, without
your permission?







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   Feb > Feb 17

                   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

From: "Keith M. King" <alien2@sound.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:28:30
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:44:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo


>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:48:47 -0500
>From: Dave Kauble <dkauble@iquest.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net

>Hello List Members,

>I just received a report and a photo which I think can only be
>adequately defined by seeing the photo and report for oneself.
>This was sent to me care of Deb's UFO Research Information
>Clearinghouse, and I think it is something you definitely should
>see and judge for yourselves.

>The photo and account are located at:

>http://www.debshome.com/PilotsIncredibleSighting.html

>Thanks!

>~Dave


After looking at that picture, all I can say is that it
represents an inconclusive bit of material which can only truly
be decided with some intensive photograph analysis. Perhaps
someone knows a place thats NOT subject-related, where this photo
can be gone over with a fine tooth comb.

Keith M. King
M. King Studies








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   Feb > Feb 18

                  Canadian UFO Conference, July 10-12, 1998

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:46:05 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 02:10:01 -0500
Subject: Canadian UFO Conference, July 10-12, 1998

Announcing the

        Canadian UFO Conference
           July 10-12, 1998
           St. Paul, Alberta

Confirmed speakers to date:

        Stanton Friedman
        John Timmerman (CUFOS)
        Chris Rutkowski (UFOROM)
        Fern Belzil

Sponsored by the St. Paul Chamber of Commerce

Site of the World's Oldest, Maintained UFO Landing Platform
and UFO Museum

For information and registration call 403-645-6800

Visit the Conference website hosted by the Alberta UFO Study Group:

        http://www.planet.eon.net/~kijek/page12.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Americans please note! Your dollar is worth more in Canada! Why not
plan your UFO vacation this year in exotic northern Alberta? St. Paul
is only a hop, skip and a jump from the city of Edmonton, where you can
find the West Edmonton Mall - still the largest in the world! (Yes!
Larger than the Mall of America in Minneapolis!)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

        See you there!


--
Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca
(and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca)
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada








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   Feb > Feb 18

                Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:10:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:06:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell


>From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle]
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:31:21 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Some Questions about Korff's Book on Roswell

>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:09:40 +0000
>>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

>>Forwarded Message:

>>From: JBONJO@aol.com
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:52:26 EST
>>To: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal K. Korff]
>>Subject: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

>>I am the Roswell UFO Crash Photographer that you quote in your
>>book, 'The Roswell UFO Crash -- What They Don't Want You to
>>Know'.  Since we never have met or had any conversation I am
>>curious and therefore am requesting the basis for several
>>statements published in your book:

Glad you're hanging in there keeping at least some of these
people honest.








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                    Re: UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:10:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:25:41 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY


>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
>To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:42:33 -0500

>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:59:35 -0500
>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'UFO Sphere/Orb' over Brooklyn, NY
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>There _is_ science in ufology.... although it is not always
>>obvious. However, to see wat I mean, consider the "reverse
>>Situation."

><snip>

>>However, rarely _if_ever_ does a skeptic "test" the explanation'
>>against the available sighting data.  Instead, what usually
>>happens is that the skeptic finds an explanation for one part of
>>th sghting and then "publishes"  (I can cite specific examples in
>>my own experience if anyone is interested.) The general
>>public/press/scientific community  then assmes the sighting has
>>been explained and goes on its merry way.

>I've experienced this first hand.  While living in the UK, I
>investigated a sighting made by a reliable witness (a
>coastguard), who saw, in al clear evening sky, a bright light
>over the sea.  Its reflection in the water could be clearly seen,
>and occasionally a beam of some sort seemed to strike tha water's
>surface.  The local college physics prof. dismissed it (rather
>predictably) as the planet Venus.  The problem? Venus was not at
>elongation and therefore not visible.  Add to that the fact that
>the witness was looking due east, and the explanation falls
>apart.  When I politely tried to point this out to the prof, he
>told me to stop wasting his time with crackpot nonsense.

Ah, yes. Don't look through the telescope because you might see
something you don't like.

I investigated sightings that occurred in late December, 1978 in
New Zealand.  Thse sightings were big news 19 years ago because a
TV film crew saw the unexplained lights and filmed them.  I
don't have space to go into all the details of this sighting
which involved an airplane crew of 2, two reporters, a cameraman
and a sound recordist, a radar operator and a radar technician.
The sightings occurred between 1 AM and 3 AM on Dec. 31.
Because a reporter was involved and he got his story out
immediately, the sighting was reported on that same day in
morning papers in NZ.  Theories proliferated like the funny
mushrooms after a spring rain.   I think some of the explainers
had been eating those mushrooms!

An astronomer in Christchurchn N.Z., was 99% certain that what
they saw and filmed was Venus.

Problem: Venus didn't rise until after 3 AM

OK, go back to astronomer who is now confident that what they saw
was Jupiter (nowhere near as bright as Venus, of course).
Jupiter was up, but at such a high angular elevation that the
cameraman couldn't film it and besides the lights were reported
as at the altitude of the aircraft or lower.  Another explanation
was that one of the lights was a squid boat.  This was no good
because bright lights on squid boats create reflections in the
water which appear immediately beneath (from the point of view of
the observer at some altitude) the bright lights.  Yet the film
clearly shows no reflection (squid boat had to be at least 3000
ft high to have its reflection out of the field of view of the
camera). Sir Bernard Lovell of Jodrell Bank Radio Observatory
identified the lights as "unburned meteorites," ..... a dumb
comment if there ever was one in that one light, in particular,
was seen for over 10 minutes.

Anyway,  SCIENCE IN DEFAULT:
In May 1980 a Canadian scientist, Wm. Lehn, published a paper in
the Journal of Atmpspheric and Terrestrial Physics in which he
argued that the lights were mirages of other distant lights.

He stated:"  notably absent from all the reported theories was
any consideration of atmospheric refraction phenomena."  He based
his opinion and analysis solely on newspaper reports  of the
sighting.

In July 1980 I responded with a 6 page paper that criticized Lehn
for using only a few Canadian newspaper accounts and also pointed
out a  number of reasons for rejecting atmospheric refraction
(mirages). I also pointed out that New Zealand newspaper HAD
carried discussions of refraction phenomena.

The journal editor sent my paper to a referee who wrote:

".....This article unlike that of Lehn, contains no real science
and as such cannot be accepted for the journal. Sightings of
unidentified objects are unfortunately often vague and imprecise
and sometimes contradictory.  I do not consider that this article
contributes in any way towards a true scientific explanation of
the phnomena described.  It may be suitable for a newspaper but
not for a scientific journal."

His second sentence (Sightings of UFOs are often vague....) is,
of course, correct.  But so what?  The only "vagueness" in this
case was in the explanation.  The "hard data" consisted of
eyewitness accounts by good observers backed up by color movie
film,ground radar, airplane radar and something that was quite
unique in ufo history until the Gulf Breezesightings, tape
recordings made during the sightings.

Anyway, I responded in October 1980 by rewriting and
resumitting my paper along with a letter to the editor as
follows:

"I wonder what the referee considers to be 'real science.'  Is it
real science to allow an incorrect explanation to stand
unchallengerfd in a respected, refereed journal?  I dare say that
if a published paper contains errors in logic or mathematics,
experts in the particular field addressed by the paper do not
hesitate to write articles pointing out the errors, and the
journals do not hesitate to publish the articles."

I also pointed out that Lehn's paper seemed to be largely
speculation based on a small amount of information from
newspapers whereas my paper was based on much, much more
information and contained the results of a calculation of
brightness based on photographic data.  It therefore seemed
unfair for the referee to "bestow upon Lehn's paper the accolade
'real science' " and to reject my paper as unscientific.

In December, 1980, the journal editor informed me that a second
referee had rejected my paper.  The second referee had written
that it was unlikely there would be "an agreement on an
explanation of the N.Z. 'sighitngs' and until the experimental
facts are sorted out more clearly, arguments and
counter-arguments should be dealt with by correspondence between
the contestants themselves and not in the open literature...I
support without hesitation the rejection of this paper."

In other words, so what if an incorrect explanation had been
published. The incorrect explanation was "scientific" and it
would be unscientific to publish a counter-argument.

My paper was never published.


SIC TRANSIT GLORIA SCIENTIA............

or something like that!

(There is a lot more to the New Zealand sightings story.  Papers
were published in te journal APPLIED OPTICS... but only "by
accident.")







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                Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak]
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:13:54 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:51:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

>From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle]
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:31:21 EST
>Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:25:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

C. Bond Johnson wrote that he was misquoted in the Randle/Schmitt book:

>>"THE BOND JOHNSON FACTOR ...At that time I was briefed on the
>>idea that it was not a flying disc as reported but in fact was a
>>weather balloon that had crashed....  Almost the first thing that
>>Ramey said was, "Oh, we've found out what it is, and you know,
>>it's a weather balloon." p. 125.

>>FACT: I have been quoted in the past as making statements similar
>>to these. There is no basis in fact as to these remarks, I never
>>have made any such statements since this does not in any way
>>coincide with any recollections or records that I have of my
>>visit to General Ramey's office on 7/8/47.

Kevin Randle replied:

>I wonder if he would like to hear the tape again. Not only did he
>make comments similar to these, there are exactly what he said. I
>have the tapes with the comments and I was careful in the
>transcription because this was at the time that Moore and
>Shandera were talking about their new star witness. At that point
>Johnson moved from having seen only a weather balloon to having
>photographed the real debris. But the point is, I have the
>comments on audio tape and know exactly what he said. When
>confronted with that information, he stuttered and evaded, but
>had no answer, accusing me of getting the quotes wrong.

>What he said to me, once again on tape is, "I posed General Ramey
>with this debris. At that time I was briefed on the idea that it
>was not a flying disk as first reported but in fact was a weather
>balloon that had crashed."

I side with Kevin Randle on this one.  Johnson's original quote
that Ramey was telling him it was a weather balloon is, in fact,
completely backed up by contemporaneous news accounts.  On the
other hand, his more recent statements that Ramey didn't put out
a weather balloon story until after he (Johnson) had returned to
his newspaper office doesn't seem to be supported by documentary
evidence.

That this debate has become somewhat acrimonious is unfortunate,
because overall Johnson seems quite open to finding out what
happened that day and even accepts the possibility that there
could have been a UFO crash that was covered up.  He isn't a
knee-jerk debunker.

First of all, it's important to establish a basic timeline of
what happened. Surviving wire messages indicate that the original
AP wire story on the press release went out at 12:26 pm, Roswell
time, or 1:26 in Fort Worth and 2:26 in Washington.  Johnson
remembers being called out to the base at around 4:00 pm and
being admitted to Ramey's office at around 4:30 pm (Fort Worth
time). That leaves roughly three hours between the press release
and when Johnson took his photos.  A lot happened in those three
hours.

The N.Y. Times reported:


Celestrial crockery had the Army up in the air for several hours
yesterday before an Army officer explained that what a colleague
thought was "a flying disk" was nothing more than a battered Army
weather balloon.  (The "Army officer obviously refers to weather
officer Irving Newton)


...WITHIN AN HOUR after Lt. Haught (sic) had given new impetus to
the "flying saucer" derby, his boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey, had
a somewhat different different version of the flying disk.

He said that while it was true it had been seen on a ranch, no
one had seen it in the air; it was "of flimsy construction."
apparently made "of some sort of tin foil."  ...In Washington,
Lieut. Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, Deputy Chief of the Army Air Forces,
hurried to his headquarters' press section....


Similarly, Dick Pearce of the San Francisco Examiner wrote:


The Army Air Force sent a shiver of excitement across a
saucer-conscious Nation yesteday with the announcemnt that an
actual flying disc had been found... Not until three hours later
did the saucer shatter on the rock of hard fact...

Lt. Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, deputy chief of the AAF, hurried to the
AAF press section in Washington and personally took charge as
newspapers and wire services clamored for details....

WITHIN AN HOUR telephone lines into sparse New Mexico were
jammed... (The Examiner did not call Sheriff Wilcox.  Surmising
that the find had been flown to Brig. Gen. Roger M. Ramey ... The
Examiner telephoned him.  FIRST TO REACH HIM, The Examiner got a
complete description of the "disc" from him, together with HIS
EXPRESSED SUSPICION THAT IT WAS JUST PART OF A WEATHER BALLOON.
His description tallied with that of radar reflectors sent up
every day at Oakland.

(As a result, The Examiner was able to give a prosaic name to the Army's
saucer LONG BEFORE the Army itself corrected the boner of its public
relations officer at Roswell.)

A weather officer attached to the base weather station at Fort
Worth inally was called in, took one look at the tangled mess of
aluminum foil, strings, and wood and made definite
identification.

Plans to fly it to the AAF laboratories at Wright Field, Dayton,
Ohio, were abandoned promptly.


DISAVOWAL -- General Ramey went on the radio to quiet the
furor....  etc.

And the Washington Post wrote:


For three hectic hours last night, the Army Air Forces ...
thought it actually had possession of one of those fabulous
"flying saucers."  ...The mysterious will-o'the-wisp really
exists -- so said an announcement from Roswell Army Airfield's
public relations officer.  Then a few hours later and nearly two
days after the "disc" had been in official hands, it was rudely
exposed as an imposter.


Rushed from Roswell to Eighth Air Force Headquarters at Fort
Worth, Tex., by B-29, it puzzled AAF officers there.  They were
about to fly it on to the Army's experimental center at Wright
Field when an Army warrant officer [Irving Newton ] identified
the object.  It was part of a box - kite type of weather balloon
used by United States Weather Bureau and Army meteorological
stations all over the country.


But then the story went on later...


....Under the personal direction of Lieut. Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg,
acting AAF chief, who dropped into the Washington, AAF public
information headquarters in the midst of the excitement, they
burned up the wires to Texas and New Mexico.

They got from Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey ... a description of the
object.  It was "of very flimsy construction -- almost like a
box-kite", made of wood and with a  cover "like  tinfoil."...

RAMEY SAID HE HADN'T ACTUALLY SEEN IT HIMSELF AS YET.  HE WENT TO
TAKE A LOOK, AND CALLED BACK THAT IT WAS ABOUT 25 FEET IN
DIAMETER.  He said he was shipping it on to Wright Field, Ohio,
but would have one of his meteorological officers look at it
first...


Let's put these stories together.  The N.Y. Times says Ramey was
putting out a different version "within an hour" calling the
device flimsy and made of fin foil.  The S.F. Examiner also
suggests that they contacted Ramey "within an hour," and they
were the first to reach him, even before Vandenberg and his
people in Washington.  The Examiner, however, clearly has Ramey
saying that it was part of a weather balloon, and further
suggests that Ramey was also using the radar target explanation
at this time.  This was also obviously well BEFORE Irving Newton,
the meteorological officer, was ordered to Ramey's office to put
his official stamp of approval on Ramey's story.

In all three stories, Gen. Vandenberg is also mentioned as
putting in a brief appearance at the Pentagon public relations
office.  When could Vandenberg have done this?  His secretary's
diary details a crowded afternoon schedule of appointment and
phone calls.  However, a preplanned meeting with Air Marshall
Goddard at 3:00 on "4 subjects," however, does not appear to have
been kept, since there is no summary of the meeting, as there are
for other appointments and phone calls of the day.  Thus, there
is possibly a short gap in Vandenberg's schedule, from 3:10 to
3:25 PM, enough time for Vandenberg to have ducked into the
Pentagon press room and put in his reported appearance. This is
"within an hour" of the press release, in line with the news
stories.

At that point, calls were made to Ramey from the Pentagon press
room.  Ramey first describes the flimsy boxkite made of wood and
tinfoil,  but then says "he hadn't actually seen it yet."  Then
the Washington Post reports that "he went to take a look, and
called back that it was about 25 feet in diameter."

There are two remarkable things in that statement.  First of all,
Marcel had yet to arrive from Roswell with the real debris.  He
was still airborn.  So how could Ramey go take a look at
something that wasn't there?  And second, Ramey claims the
boxkite was "25 feet in diameter."  In fact, this strange
description was still being put out by Army public relations
people into the night.  Yet there was nothing in the Fort Worth
photos, balloon or radar reflector, that was anything like "25
feet in diameter."  Again, this indicates that the object Ramey
was claiming to have just looked at was nothing but a creation of
his own imagination.  The real debris simply wasn't there to be
looked at.

Finally,  here is an  interesting description of events I found
in the little known newspaper, New York PM:


Higher headquarters proved to be Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey... who
had the Roswell "saucer" last night and was preparing to ship it
to the laboratory at Dayton, Ohio, because still higher
authorities had so ordered.

RAMEY SAID HE COULDN'T LET ANYBODY LOOK AT THE THING OR
PHOTOGRAPH  IT BECAUSE WASHINGTON HAD CLAMPED A "SECURITY LID" ON
ALL BUT THE SKETCHIEST DETAILS.

"The object," he said, "is in my office right now, and as far as
I can see there is nothing to get excited about.  It looks to me
LIKE THE REMANT OF A WEATHER BALLOON AND A RADAR REFLECTOR."


Here Ramey is very EXPLICITY calling it a singular weather
balloon and a radar reflector.  And also note that he says he
hadn't let anybody see or photograph it yet.  So this statement
also had to have been made BEFORE Johnson took his photos or
weather officer Newton made his identification.

In summary,  Ramey likely started putting out the weather
balloon/radar reflector story within an hour of the infamous
press release, well before (like 2 hours before) reporter Johnson
ever stepped into Ramey's office, and even before Marcel arrived
in Fort Worth with the real debris.  Under the circumstances, it
is hard to believe that Ramey also would not have told Johnson of
the weather balloon/radar target explanation.  He was certainly
telling other members of the press this story before Johnson got
there.

One wonders what happened to make Johnson change his mind about
all this and start accusing Kevin Randle of misrepresenting his
original testimony.

David Rudiak









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   Feb > Feb 18

                   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

From: Jakes Louw <LOUWJE@telkom.co.za>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:40:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:17:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo


>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:48:47 -0500
>From: Dave Kauble <dkauble@iquest.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

>Hello List Members,

>I just received a report and a photo which I think can only be
>adequately defined by seeing the photo and report for oneself.
>This was sent to me care of Deb's UFO Research Information
>Clearinghouse, and I think it is something you definitely should
>see and judge for yourselves.

>The photo and account are located at:

>http://www.debshome.com/PilotsIncredibleSighting.html



Dave

The "object" is clearly due to the fact that the
shot was taken through a canopy or porthole, and
there is an object inside with the cameraman
that is reflecting sunlight, causing an image on
the reflective surface.

Why: glider is at some distance, so most cameras
would register the shot as infinity, but object
appears radically out of focus; also the
reflected image clearly interferes with the
demarcated edge of the gliders' wings, which means
the image is closer to the camera than the
glider; the time of sighting (200 PM PST) would
indicate that the sun would be highly elevated,
and ideal for giving anomylous reflections of
such diverse things as the dashboard or canopy
frame/surround.

Why has this only surfaced now, after nearly 10 years?

Can anybody verify John Kings' story: anybody from
any of the other aircraft?

Just some comments.


Jakes E. Louw
+27 12 311-2668
082 923 6144
louwje@telkom.co.za










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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 18

                   UFOSEARCH #12 -- UFO History; Part III

From: "Val Germann" <vhg@socket.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:16:55 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:05:27 -0500
Subject: UFOSEARCH #12 -- UFO History; Part III

UFOSEARCH #12 - UFO History; Part III

Val Germann
Columbia, Missouri

The Build-Up To 1968; The Age Of Zamora

The late summer of 1965 saw one of the best known of all U.S. UFO
cases, the Texas incident in which a police officer noticed that
an injury had been instantly healed after a close encounter with
a UFO.  Four years later, in Vietnam, I would speak with another
soldier whose father was a close friend of this officer.  Two
days after the incident, the officer in question came to dinner
at my informant's house and spoke a little about his run-in with
a UFO.  He could not hold a cup of coffee without spilling it, so
upset was he during the retelling of the event.

Also in the late summer began the Exeter series of sightings
which would lead to John Fuller's great book 'Incident At
Exeter'.  The fall of 1965 would also see the Kecksburg incident
and the huge power failures in the northeast, which some said
were UFO related.  But the biggest flap of all was waiting for
1966, in the spring, in Gerald Ford's Congressional District in
Michigan.  This flap would hit the mass media so hard, and the
"swamp gas" foul-up would hold the government up to such
ridicule, that in the end the Secretary of Defense, Robert
McNamara, would have to make a public statement.  In the
background, inside the Beltway, the Air Force's Science Advisory
Committee, Sagan a member, made a recommendation, one that led to
the  O'Brien Committee, which then led to Condon.

Strong medicine was needed because, as Keyhoe said, "Public fear
of UFOs is at an all-time high."  By the fall, Dr. McDonald was
using the 'CIA-word' and causing great consternation in secret
places, and at Lake Wanaque, N.J., just 50 miles from Manhattan,
a spectacular series of UFO sightings took place.   Then, early
in 1967, McDonald was shown the Robertson Report, an event which
helped launch him on a personal crusade to end UFO secrecy once
and for all.  His campaign picked up great resonance when, in the
summer, 'Ramparts' magazine blew the CIA's cover on dozens of
domestic spying operations.

Then, in the very late summer, in September, came the Snippy
case, the first-ever animal mutilation, which was hugely played
in 'Life Magazine'.  How well I remember this, and how it made me
sick to my stomach.  What could _this_ be about, I thought!  But no
one had any idea.  And today, more than three decades later, do
we know any more about any of this than we did then?  And if not,
why not?

***








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   Feb > Feb 19

                Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

From: JBONJO@aol.com [James Bond Johnson]
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:12:36 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:29:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell


>From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak]
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:13:54 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject:  Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

<snip>


>David Rudiak


David,

I have an email signed by you.  It is difficult to tell whether
it came directly from you or from UFO Updates in Toronto, and
which parts were written by you and which parts were written by
others.  To respond to the final statement:

>One wonders what happened to make Johnson change his mind about
>all this and start accusing Kevin Randle of misrepresenting his
>original testimony.

You might try asking me.

JBONJO

http://www.ufomind.com/people/j/johnsonj/   James Bond Johnson
http://www.execpc.com/vjentpr/jbond.html  Roswell Crash Photographer








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                    UFOSEARCH #13 - UFO History; Part IV

From: "Val Germann" <vhg@socket.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:10:05 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:37:50 -0500
Subject: UFOSEARCH #13 - UFO History; Part IV

UFOSEARCH #13 - UFO History; Part IV

Val Germann
Columbia, Missouri

The Build-up to 1968; The Age of Zamora;
Situation Report, December, 1967 -

Thus it was that by the end of 1967 the "triad" of today's
ufology (flying saucers, mutilations and abductions) were all
three in existence, the latter thanks to John Fuller's
'Interrupted Journey.'  And right there with them was the fourth
horseman, 'government cover-up,' perhaps the most important one
of all, if subsequent events have much meaning.  That is, the
energy expended trying to gain access to assumed government
secrets has been all out of proportion to the results of those
efforts.  And should we be surprised at this, since it has been
government policy since at least January of 1953 to debunk UFOs
in public?

I don't think so.  I think it's been a dead end from the
beginning, a vastly overrated effort, as a lot of people were
trying to tell Keyhoe in the middle 1950s.  But he preferred to
tilt at windmills rather than do the hard work of nailing down
the phenomenon once and for all.  The temptation toward the 'big
kill', the government secret, was too much for him to resist.
And doing real research takes money, a lot of it, which Keyhoe
did not have.  So, he took the easy way.

Which was too bad because, when you think about it, nearly all of
the really juicy 'secret stuff' has simply been leaked, for
heaven's sake, and not been the result of pestering the
government and its minions!  There's a lesson there for somebody,
though I don't think they're interested in learning it. Allen
Dulles' great coups as a 'spy' came from the 'walk-ins', from
sources upset with policy and actively looking to betray.  But I
would have to be pretty desperate before I'd put my life in the
hands of an Allen Dulles, or nearly anyone else, these days.  Who
can you trust?  I don't pretend to know.

So, as 1968 rolled onto the world's calendars the UFO arena was
remarkably similar to what we see today.  Public interest was
high, Hollywood was helping out (the then-recent '2001, A Space
Odyssey' a prime example) and nearly everyone was putting
pressure on 'the government' for 'answers.' The primary
difference between then and now was James McDonald, a world class
scientist who was giving 'the government' and people like Allen
Hynek, all they could handle.  It was going to be a very
interesting year!


***








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                            Image Enhancement Co.

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:25:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:25:48 -0500
Subject: Image Enhancement Co.

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:43:54 +0000
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Enhancement

Hi Errol, Hi All

I came across this on one of my meanderings through the web.

--
        Are you a man or a mouse, come on squeek up!
                       Sean Jones
          reply to--sean@tedric.demon.co.uk
Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
        Research page --http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/


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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"







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   Feb > Feb 19

                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:36:10 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:21:11 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

In a message dated 98-02-15 22:20:34 EST, updates@globalserve.net writes:


>  Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:26:06 +0000
>  From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>  To: updates@globalserve.net
>  Subject: Beyond Roswell Q&A Site

>  A new question and answer session with myself  and Ray Santilli
>  regarding the alien autopsy film has now been added to our new
>  web site. You can

First question that comes to mind.

"Ray, why have you continually broken your word (lied??) by NOT
giving KODAK a couple of frames from the films?"

Next question

When are you going to get around to the above??

Cheers,
Robert







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                Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:56:07 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:12:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell


>  From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle]
>  Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:31:21 EST
>  To: updates@globalserve.net
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Some Questions about Korff's Book on Roswell

>  >Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:09:40 +0000
>  >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>  >To: updates@globalserve.net
>  >Subject: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

>  >Forwarded Message:

>  >From: JBONJO@aol.com
>  >Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:52:26 EST
>  >To: TotlResrch@aol.com [Kal K. Korff]
>  >Subject: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

>  >I am the Roswell UFO Crash Photographer that you quote in your
>  >book, 'The Roswell UFO Crash -- What They Don't Want You to
>  >Know'.  Since we never have met or had any conversation I am
>  >curious and therefore am requesting the basis for several
>  >statements published in your book:


>  This is really a fight that I would like to avoid but there are
>  some allegations made here that simply are not true. J. Bond
>  Johnson was, in fact, one of the photographers. There was
>  obviously more than one as his own statement makes clear, though
>  not necessarily at the same time. However, the point is that I
>  have, on audio tape, the original statements made by Johnson that
>  are in direct conflict with what he says today. The point is, I
>  do have the tapes, and more to the point, Johnson has heard them.
>  In fact, he has copies of the pertinent statements.

It seems like some of the  Roswell witness storys has evolved
with time.

In the beginning Kevin, thank goodness, interviewed all these
people  either with audio or video tape, i.e. the ORIGINAL story.


I would suspect  that these (the original) are the most accurate
accounts because they hadn't had a chance to be polluted so to
speak.

From a human nature point of view it is interesting to see how
the storys have/are changing.

Cheers,
Robert








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   Feb > Feb 19

                   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

From: Dave Kauble <dkauble@iquest.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:30:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:33:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo


>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:40:11 +0200
>From: Jakes Louw <LOUWJE@telkom.co.za>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

>Dave

>The "object" is clearly due to the fact that the
>shot was taken through a canopy or porthole, and
>there is an object inside with the cameraman
>that is reflecting sunlight, causing an image on
>the reflective surface.

>Why: glider is at some distance, so most cameras
>would register the shot as infinity, but object
>appears radically out of focus; also the
>reflected image clearly interferes with the
>demarcated edge of the gliders' wings, which means
>the image is closer to the camera than the
>glider; the time of sighting (200 PM PST) would
>indicate that the sun would be highly elevated,
>and ideal for giving anomylous reflections of
>such diverse things as the dashboard or canopy
>frame/surround.

>Why has this only surfaced now, after nearly 10 years?

>Can anybody verify John Kings' story: anybody from
>any of the other aircraft?


Jakes

The object cannot be dismissed as a reflection inside the canopy of one
plane.

As the account below the photo explains, the photo was taken from a
chase plane and was observed by BOTH pilots.  Several pictures were
taken with the Minolta camera.

The only explanation I can offer, without knowing John English's
reasons, are that, similar to many pilots, offering such evidence and
making such claims can damage a flying career. Perhaps John has other
reasons, but I can assure you that his account and picture were offered
for free, and as he says, he still has the negative.  I gather his
motives are sincere, since no money is involved, and his name and e-mail
were proferred openly.  Mr. English also questions what it was that he
and the other pilot saw, but undoubtedly they saw something.

I don't suppose to know what was seen, but the credibility of the
observers appears to be good, and therefore what was seen was something
tangible and not a camera goof.

As Mr. King states, only with scrutiny and analysis will we learn more.
That is what I expected when I posted the report and the photo, and why
I did so.

Best,

Dave








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   Feb > Feb 20

                          Pacific NW Mysteries Chat

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:23:22 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:33:08 -0500
Subject: Pacific NW Mysteries Chat

The Pacific Northwest has more than it's share of strange
mysteries, from Kenneth Arnold's famous sighting in 1947
to Bigfoot, it seems to be quite the happening place. Greg
Long has been documenting all this weirdness for 17 years
and has an impressive collection of stories on his webpage
Northwest Mysteries http://www.pacificharbor.com/nwmyst/

Please join Greg and Bill " The Saint " Stockstill, as
they discuss some of  these mysteries this upcoming
Sunday, Feb 22, 8pm ET.  This chat is available at
http://forums.msn.com/ufo

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.










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   Feb > Feb 20

                             Area 51 Sightings?

From: "Matt" <mhelbing@students.wisc.edu> [Matt Helbing]
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:17:20 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:40:29 -0500
Subject: Area 51 Sightings?

I am looking to make contacts with others who have photographed,
videotaped, or otherwise documented UFO sightings near Area 51.
On January 11, 1998, I videotaped approximately 8 minutes of
footage from Highway 375 just past Hancock Summit.  Respond to
the list or via email (sarcosm@bigfoot.com).

Thanks,
Matt







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                          'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:15:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:33:00 -0500
Subject: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

>From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:36:10 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

>In a message dated 98-02-15 22:20:34 EST, updates@globalserve.net writes:

>>  Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:26:06 +0000
>>  From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>>  To: updates@globalserve.net
>>  Subject: Beyond Roswell Q&A Site

>>  A new question and answer session with myself  and Ray Santilli
>>  regarding the alien autopsy film has now been added to our new
>>  web site. You can

>First question that comes to mind.

>"Ray, why have you continually broken your word (lied??) by NOT
>giving KODAK a couple of frames from the films?"

>Next question

>When are you going to get around to the above??

>Cheers,
>Robert


Good question!

Actually I think Philip is being too generous in calling
this a "question and answer session".  It's more of a
question and evasion session.

I'm getting fed up with Ray Santilli and his promises which
go nowhere and his evasions of all the tough questions.

Bob










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   Feb > Feb 20

                                Space Debris?

From: "Greg Sandow" <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:46:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:20:21 -0500
Subject: Space Debris?

The following is from the Internet's leading gossip column, the
Drudge Report:

(And no, it's not about Monica Lewinsky!)

REPORT: US MISSILE COLLIDED WITH SPACE JUNK

Thursday's BOSTON GLOBE is fresh with the details of a Minuteman
missile on a test flight over the Pacific Ocean last month being
destroyed in a collision with a piece of space junk.

Reporter Dave Chandler outlines what may be the first known case
of space collision that "analysts fear could befall the space
shuttle or other spacecraft with crew amid thousands of untracked
pieces of rocket debris orbiting the Earth."

The missile was soaring 240 miles above the Marshall Islands in a
test of "Star Wars" tracking systems when it suddenly disappeared
from radar screens.

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Lehner, spokesman for the Ballistic
Missile Defense Organization: "There seems to be really no proof,
but the consensus is that it looks like it may have been struck
by some space debris."

Over 7,000 pieces of space junk has been cataloged and is being
tracked by the US Space Command.

Debris in orbit moves at high speeds, more than 17,000 miles per
hour.

According to the National Research Council, almost all of the
debris that could inflict 'critical damage' on the space shuttle
is likely too small to be tracked. Any impact would come without
warning, as in the Jan. 15 Minuteman collision.


Greg Sandow







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   Feb > Feb 20

                                 More Roswel

From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:10:15 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:15:07 -0500
Subject: More Roswel

Making this brief, I just had a business meeting with a young
attorney whose husband was born in Roswell. My guess is they are
in their early thirties.

His father was in the 509th. He's dead now, but mother, uncles,
and aunts still live in Roswell and were there in 1947.

The uncles and aunts don't really remember much about it, she
told me, other than they say the whole town was told by the
military they were not to discuss it. Back then people trusted
the authorities and no one questioned it, so they all complied.

Assuming this is accurate, I wasn't aware they had gone to the
extreme of telling civilians not directly involved not to talk
about it.

Any verification or comments ?

Dave Vetterick









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   Feb > Feb 20

                   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:30:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:17:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:30:07 -0500
>From: Dave Kauble <dkauble@iquest.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo


>>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:40:11 +0200
>>From: Jakes Louw <LOUWJE@telkom.co.za>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo


Dave, Jakes and List,

Considering the equipment, we need more than:

Camera ............: Minolta Maxum, Rokor 28/80 mm 100 asa

(should be Maxxum)

We need:

The EXACT model - I gather we have AT LEAST the following variants
from the Maxxum series: Maxxum 5000, 7000, 3000i, 500si

Lens setting of the zoom lens: 28 mm, 50 mm, 80 mm ?

Autofocus on/off if any

Automatic settings on/off if any.

etc.


Serge Salvaille




     Search for other documents from or mentioning: sergesa | dkauble |





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                          'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:58:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:37:03 -0500
Subject: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:15:47 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

> >From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
> >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:36:10 EST
> >To: updates@globalserve.net
> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

> >In a message dated 98-02-15 22:20:34 EST, updates@globalserve.net writes:

> >>  Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:26:06 +0000
> >>  From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
> >>  To: updates@globalserve.net
> >>  Subject: Beyond Roswell Q&A Site

> >>  A new question and answer session with myself  and Ray Santilli
> >>  regarding the alien autopsy film has now been added to our new
> >>  web site. You can

> >First question that comes to mind.

> >"Ray, why have you continually broken your word (lied??) by NOT
> >giving KODAK a couple of frames from the films?"

> >Next question

> >When are you going to get around to the above??

> >Cheers,
> >Robert

> Good question!

> Actually I think Philip is being too generous in calling
> this a "question and answer session".  It's more of a
> question and evasion session.

> I'm getting fed up with Ray Santilli and his promises which
> go nowhere and his evasions of all the tough questions.

> Bob


I agree with Bob, but you can't blame me for trying. Is there
anyone out there that can call Ray's bluff and make him an offer
for the film ? If anyone is curious to know what we are talking
about simply lok uo our web site at: www.beyondroswell.com







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                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle]
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:25:56 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:48:00 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:15:47 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

 >>From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
 >>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:36:10 EST
 >>To: updates@globalserve.net
 >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


 >>>  Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:26:06 +0000
 >>>  From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
 >>>  To: updates@globalserve.net
 >>>  Subject: Beyond Roswell Q&A Site

 >>>  A new question and answer session with myself  and Ray Santilli
 >>>  regarding the alien autopsy film has now been added to our new
 >>>  web site. You can

 >>First question that comes to mind.

 >>"Ray, why have you continually broken your word (lied??) by NOT
 >>giving KODAK a couple of frames from the films?"

 >>Next question

 >>When are you going to get around to the above??

 >>Cheers,
 >>Robert


 >Good question!

 >Actually I think Philip is being too generous in calling
 >this a "question and answer session".  It's more of a
 >question and evasion session.

 >I'm getting fed up with Ray Santilli and his promises which
 >go nowhere and his evasions of all the tough questions.

 >Bob


Bob,

Welcome to the club. We've all been fed up with  Santilli and
his lack of candor for a long time.

KRandle



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                             Lunar Ice Reported

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:55:00 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:53:40 -0500
Subject: Lunar Ice Reported

The following was found by one of our local astronomical society
members ...

Reuters

HOUSTON (Feb. 20) - A NASA satellite sent into space last month may
have found water frozen on the surface of the moon, the Houston
Chronicle reported on Thursday.

If the findings were confirmed, the water could provide a vital
resource for human space explorers, the newspaper said.

It said the possible findings had come back from the Lunar Prospector
satellite circling 60 miles above the moon after launch from Cape
Canaveral in Florida on Jan. 6.

Alan Binder, chief scientist for the mission, would not confirm or
deny the reports for the Chronicle, but said, "We are getting fairly
certain of our findings."

He said there were rumors among planetary scientists that "tons of
water" had been found, but also that none was discovered.

"The only advice I can give you is don't believe the rumors either
way," Binder said.

The $63 million satellite was sent to the moon in part to search
the lunar poles for ice deposits thought to be the remnants of comets.
The presence of ice was suggested by astronomers in the 1960s and
rekindled in 1994 when a Pentagon satellite found unconfirmed evidence
of ice in a crater at the moon's south pole.

Apollo astronauts who went to the moon on flights from 1969 to 1972
did not see ice, but those missions were in equatorial regions where
the deposits were unlikely to be.

NASA scientists envision using moon ice to make rocket fuel for
spacecraft shuttling to Earth or more distant destinations, and for
human consumption.

The 4-foot-tall, 650-pound Lunar Prospector is equipped with
instruments designed to detect as little as a cup of water in
a cubic yard of lunar soil.

Binder said NASA was being "very cautious" about its findings and
would not announce them until they were certain.

The space agency has been enveloped in controversy since August 1996
when its scientists said they had found fossil evidence of ancient
bacterial life in a Martian meteorite. The claim remains in dispute.

REUTERS 06:47 02-20-98

Copyright 1998 Reuters Limited.  All rights reserved.  Republication
or redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or
similiar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written
consent of Reuters.  Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or
delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.
All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

html references:
http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov/
http://www.chron.com/cgi-bin/auth/story.mpl/content/chronicle/page1/98/02/19/moo
n.2-0.html








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                      UFOSEARCH #14: UFO History Part V

From: "Val Germann" <vhg@socket.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:56:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:58:02 -0500
Subject: UFOSEARCH #14: UFO History Part V


UFOSEARCH #14 - UFO History; Part V

Val Germann
Columbia, Missouri

                     **  The Year of McDonald - 1968  **

In January of 1968, just over three decades ago, Donald Keyhoe
showed James McDonald the Low Memorandum, a document that had
been leaked to Keyhoe by a disgruntled staffer of the so-called
Condon Committee, which had been set up in the middle of 1966,
following the "swamp gas" debacle in Michigan.

The memorandum from Low, who was the project director, clearly
stated that the purpose of the committee was to maintain the
appearance of objectivity while whitewashing UFOs.  McDonald was
incensed by the memorandum, in part because he had been carrying
water for Condon in some circles, advising restraint until the
committee report was issued, an event scheduled for early in
1969.

McDonald immediately launched a personal and professional attack
on the Condon group, writing and making public a letter
excoriating them all.   It seemed that the recommendations of the
Robertson Committee, dating from way back in 1953, were still in
force.  The UFO was to be debunked, using the coarsest of
methodologies.   As a result of McDonald's efforts Condon fired
two staffers, one of whom had actually given the offending
document to Keyhoe, and another staff member resigned.  The
credibility of the Condon group should have been destroyed but it
is never a sin to carry out the policy of higher-ups.   The
debunking, government-funded committee sailed on, unperturbed
after the firings and resignations took place.

In the end, the report was issued and given the imprimatur of the
National Academy of Sciences, an ultra-conservative group
dominated by men from "the (Atomic) bomb group," Condon being one
of that bunch.   Once again, "the government" had bashed the UFO
good, along with anyone, anywhere, attempting to get at the
truth.

But, back to early 1968.  Hard on the heels of the blow-up over
McDonald and the leaked memorandum was an article that appeared
in April in 'Look' magazine.  The author was John Fuller and in
great detail he laid bare the inner workings of the Condon
Committee, predicting exactly what their report would say.   But
this didn't stay in the news long, not after the killing of Dr.
Martin Luther King in Memphis.   Indeed, the American political
scene was soon to explode into banana republic-type violence,
even as McDonald and others prepared to testify before Congress,
in hopes of a once-and-for-all breaking of the secrecy
surrounding the UFO.

***








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                   Nua Blather: The Raelly Late Late Show

From: Dave Walsh <dave@nua.ie>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:06:50 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:02:39 -0500
Subject: Nua Blather: The Raelly Late Late Show

*******************************************************************
NUA BLATHER  NUA BLATHER NUA BLATHER
Weekly free email of Dogma Destruction,
Forteana and High Weirdness

By Daev Walsh   Email: blather@nua.ie
Web: http://www.nua.ie/blather/
*******************************************************************
February 20th 1998  Published By:  Nua Limited  Vol 1. No. 41
*******************************************************************

THE RAELLY LATE LATE SHOW

On Friday 13th, 1998, Rael of The Rael Foundation
(http://www.rael.org) popped up on Irish RTE1 TV's 'The Late Late
Show' as a guest of Gay Byrne's (trivia fans take note: The Late
Late show is reputedly the longest running TV chat show ever). Rael,
who used to be French motor-racing journalist Claude Vorlihon,
formed the Foundation in 1973 and claims it to be the largest UFO
organisation in the world, with 35,000 members in 85 countries
(information culled from Mark Pilkington's 'Off the Tracks With
British Rael' http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/news/rael.html from
Magonia 60, Summer 1997).

Rael has been on The Late Late Show twice before, four and
eight years ago. This is rather interesting, as Byrne tended to treat
Rael, resplendent in his immaculate white poloneck and white furs
(the Liberace of ufology?), with undisguised and reasonably well
formed scepticism.
Why does he keep coming back? I suspect that he gains enough
followers each time, despite his host's derogatory attitude. And
perhaps this is also a good time for recruiting in Ireland, with
the the current surge in UFO interest.


Rael wasn't the only guest -- on the panel was a very nervous looking
Alan Sewell, of the Irish Centre for UFO Studies
(http://freespace.virgin.net/ic.ufos/), an organisation who have been
mentioned in this column several times. Seated in the audience
was Eamon Ansbro, also associated with ICUFOS.

My tape of the programme begins with  Gay speaking to a well
spoken middle aged lady (with a slight British accent) by the name of
Betty, who resides on a hill above Boyle, Co. Roscommon. At 6am on an
October 1997 morning, Betty was looking out of her bedroom window,
when she saw three 'cigar shaped' objects travelling, at intervals of
a few seconds, from west to east. After a longer interval, a fourth
flew past. She contacted Sligo regional airport, who told her that
there were no aircraft in the area. She concluded that the objects
'must have been UFOs, because no aircraft can travel at this speed'.
More recently, Betty witnessed a red 'star' appearing and
disappearing some 7 times in different parts of the sky, at around
7pm.

It was at this stage Rael and Sewell were introduced, Rael plunging
into a lengthy explanation of his plans to build an embassy at the
request of the Elohim, i.e., the aliens, in a demilitarised airspace.
This is so that they won't be jumped upon by the military, and turned
into 'guinea pigs', instead of receiving the world leaders at their
leisure.


Rael had plans to build this embassy in Jerusalem, but has now seems
to have changed his mind (to Ireland?). I would have thought that
Israeli airspace is perhaps one of the least demilitarised in the
world, raising questions about why he ever picked Jerusalem in the
first place, other than for religious reasons. Money is not an issue,
according to Rael, as he has some $5 million to spend.

The Elohim, according to Rael, are 25,000 years ahead of us -- and
they are *our creators* -- when they created us they were at the same
stage as we are now, in a quandary over the cloning of humans. Some
radical scientists broke away from their home planet, and created us,
the humans on earth (For more on Rael's cloning shenanigans, see an
earlier Blather, http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no5.html).

At this point Byrne, interjected with the obvious question - if this
crowd are 25,000 years ahead of us, why can't they just land on the
grounds of RTE, and stroll ahead into the studio? Rael became
animated, explaining how they would be immediately seized by the
police and army, and how instead they wanted respect, and to arrive
in a more sociable manner.

The image conjured for me by these statements -- Gardai towing away
the Elohim's craft for illegal parking -- is now firmly etched upon
my mind.


Sewell was not in agreement with these ideas. He said that that
whatever's haunting our skies is, yes, intelligent, but carrying out
some 'surveillance program'. He then more or less admitted that he
just doesn't really know what's going on with these UFOs.

Gay Byrne then interviewed a member of the audience, a lady by the
name of Moya Hennessy, a civil servant, and 'leading member of the
Raelians' in Ireland. Ms. Hennessy would appear to be on quite the
religious experience buzz, telling Gay how Rael's writings and
teachings had answered all of her questions'. She didn't say what
these questions were. For the record, she has never seen a UFO.

Then Gaybo questioned Ansbro, who explained the ICUFOS's 'success' in
divining the location and dates of future UFO sightings - he
mentioned Bantry in April 1997 and Boyle on December 14th 1997 as
examples. Readers of Blather may recall my December 14th trek across
north Dublin sand dunes, documented in 'War of the Wetlands'
(http://www.nua.ie/blather/archives/issue1no32.html), for a predicted
Dublin sighting -- which didn't happen. Ansbro predicted another --
Tuesday, February 18th, 1998, time, 22:30. Where? Over
Dublin. 'We'll look out for that' sez Gaybo.

I was in Dublin, as per usual, on this date. Nothing to report.
Dublin City (excluding the extreme suburbs and hinterland) has a
population of around half a million people, so I suppose there's a
chance that perhaps someone, somewhere might have seen 'something',
but I won't be losing any sleep waiting to hear about it.

Next up was some footage shot in Boyle in December, of a cylindrical
light, allegedly hovering in the sky. Byrne was sceptical - he
pointed out that it could be a street light, or that in fact, it
could be *anything*. Sewell defended the footage, explaining that it
was taken in Lough Key Forest Park - away from any electric lighting.
Gay Byrne was a man unconvinced (and I have to say, it's not often
that my opinions obviously coincide with his, but in this case, I am
less than impressed the evidence). Sewell went on to point out the
15-20 lights appearing around the object, but Gaybo began steering
away from the murky waters of Rorschach testing on live TV.

At this point, several members of the audience -- normal people
began giving their own sceptical opinions, and asking some
interesting questions. In answer to a question concerning
Christianity versus What Rael Had to Say, Rael had to explain how the
Elohim were actually 'God', that Mary was abducted and impregnated by
the Elohim (like Rael's mum, or so we're told) and that Jesus was,
like Rael, half Elohim, half human. And that J.C. would be back with
a cure of cancer and AIDS, as soon as we build this embassy.

I'll keep an eye on the newspapers for Planning Permission notices.

(Thanks to both Aonghus de Barra and Monica Walsh for being so good
as to record 'The Late Late Show' for my dissection)



NO WE HAVE NO CRASHES TODAY
Isn't it interesting how people started seeing UFOs in Boyle once the
crash story hit the tabloids? -- mind you, the ICUFOS maintain the
sightings have been happening for years. Continuing the 'Boyle Crash'
thread , Blather dropped a cautious email to Saab's PR department,
requesting comments regarding rumours of an alleged Gripen crash in
Ireland. We received a very cheery answer:

        From: coms@saab.se
        Subject: Svar: Message from the Gripen Website

        Hello Dave!
        There has been no Gripen crash in Ireland.
        During the development of Gripen two test aircraft crashed
        but they both crashed in Sweden.
        Kind regards
        Elin Almer


What can you say to such candidness?
I replied to this message, explaining how a kind of rumour and/or
myth was springing up about an alleged Gripen crash.
Ms. Almer responded explaining how this was perhaps not such a
surprise - after all, the gripen is an 'old mythological animal'. I
would gather that gripen is Swedish for Griffin -- any comments,
anyone?


ANY FORTEANS IN WEST VIRGINIA?
On behalf of Loren Coleman, Blather is blatantly utilising your
readership to gather information regarding sightings and thus
possible activities of large hairy bipeds in West Virginia early in
February 1998. All reports to fortean@maine.rr.com


Dave Walsh
20th February 1998


Feedback and comments to <blather@nua.ie>

Have your say: http://www.nua.ie/blather/blabber

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   Feb > Feb 20

                              Re: More Roswell

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:21:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:37:38 -0500
Subject: Re: More Roswell


>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:10:15 -0600
>From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: More Roswell

>Making this brief, I just had a business meeting with a young
>attorney whose husband was born in Roswell. My guess is they are
>in their early thirties.

>His father was in the 509th. He's dead now, but mother, uncles,
>and aunts still live in Roswell and were there in 1947.

>The uncles and aunts don't really remember much about it, she
>told me, other than they say the whole town was told by the
>military they were not to discuss it. Back then people trusted
>the authorities and no one questioned it, so they all complied.

>Assuming this is accurate, I wasn't aware they had gone to the
>extreme of telling civilians not directly involved not to talk
>about it.

>Any verification or comments ?

>Dave Vetterick

While in Roswell for the 50th last July, I ended up waiting in a
long line at a book signing (Corso's) and met several local
residents and got into a discussion of the incident in 1947.  One
woman indicated that her father had been with the Fire Department
in 1947 and had been instructed by the military to not discuss
the incident.  She said neither she, nor anyone else in her
family had been able to get him to talk about what had happened.
This was also because the military had orderred them not to talk
about it.

Of course, this was only a conversation held in passing, and I
now have no way of confirming the tale or asking questions. Of
course Roswell is now making money from this "event", and one has
to determine whether the comments made by residents are designed
to promote the truth or tourism.

The woman I spoke with sounded sincere, but who knows.

Steve Kaeser








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                              Re: More Roswell

From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:32:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:47:40 -0500
Subject: Re: More Roswell


With the compliments of the Duke of Mendoza:

>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:10:15 -0600
>From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: More Roswell

>The uncles and aunts don't really remember much about it, she
>told me, other than they say the whole town was told by the
>military they were not to discuss it. Back then people trusted
>the authorities and no one questioned it, so they all complied.

People will remember what they want to remember. Last-but-one
time I was in Roswell (January '96) I spoke to a couple of
elderly residents and, out of my hearing (I was in a bar, she was
in a shop) my companion spoke to at least one other about the
Great Event of 1947 and *their* consensus was that if anything
really unusual had happened, they would have heard about it - and
they didn't.

The official history of the 509th, reproduced in part in the
USAF's "Fact & Fiction in the New Mexico Desert", makes it plain
how closely the base was involved with the town. If so to speak
the Earth had moved in June or July 47 there would surely now be
many more people than the relative handful so far dug up who
would have much to say about it now.

If the pro-"Roswell" researchers had done their job properly,
they would have canvassed opinion outside the self-generating
circle of first-, second-, and third-hand "witnesses". This is
not to say that constraints of time & finance would have
permitted such an exercise.

This message sponsored by the seventh tentacle of the world-wide
UFO cover-up & conspiracy organization, operating under its front
of Expensive Paper Corp., Tundra City, Saskatchewan.

Yrs &c
Mendoza
Fly Iberian










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                           Re: Area 51 Sightings?

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:22:37 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:49:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Area 51 Sightings?



>From: "Matt" <mhelbing@students.wisc.edu> [Matt Helbing]
>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Seen a UFO a near Area 51?
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:17:20 -0600

>I am looking to make contacts with others who have photographed,
>videotaped, or otherwise documented UFO sightings near Area 51.
>On January 11, 1998, I videotaped approximately 8 minutes of
>footage from Highway 375 just past Hancock Summit.  Respond to
>the list or via email (sarcosm@bigfoot.com).

>Thanks,
>Matt


Hi Matt.

I would be interested in seeing your footage.  I have some
footage that a friend of mine took, while we were sitting
in his van at the Black Mail Box.  We didn't see the object,
but when we reviewed the video it was there.  Pretty
interesting little piece of video.

We haven't released it to anyone as of yet.

REgards, Mike




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              'Bright Light' spotted near Navy Helicopter Crash

From: Kenny Young <task@fuse.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:34:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:12:09 -0500
Subject: 'Bright Light' spotted near Navy Helicopter Crash

"Bright Light" spotted near KERN RIVER CANYON Helicopter Crash Area
Feb. 20, 1998

This report was enacted due to a brief, vague reference of a
'flare' being spotted near the scene of a tragic helicopter
accident happening near the Kern River Canyon on Wednesday,
February 18, 1998.  The crash claimed the lives of five
crewmen from the China Lake Naval Air Weapons Station.

The article, (dated February 19, 1998) authored by Hanh Kim
Quach of The Fresno Bee, and circulated by The Associated Press,
gives the brief and vague mention of a 'flare' that was spotted
by several residents in the area.  The article states that:
"attempts to locate the origin of the flare were futile."

Of concern, at the time, was the possibility that the fifth
member of the crew, whose remains had not yet been located, may
have sent up a distress flare.  He was later located in the
wreckage of the helicopter.

Tulare County, sheriff's office (209-733-6211) was contacted,
and the dispatcher was advised about the nature of my inquiry,
to determine if the Sheriff's Department had any information
regarding reports of a flare near or around the crash area.

The dispatcher didn't know about any 'flares', and any further
inquiries were to be made with Lietenant Gutsch, who would not
be available until Monday.

The Fresno Bee (1-800-877-7300) was contacted and a reporter said
that the 'flare story' was considered incidental to the story in
light of the accident and its casualties. He said the 'flare'
story originated from a reporter who is with the South Valley
Bureau of the Fresno Bee.

The journalist with the Fresno Bee also said that a separate
helicopter accident happened in the exact same location in 1995.
This accident involved a helicopter also clipping the same
power cable.  There were two casualties in the 1995 accident.

The South Valley Bureau of the Fresno Bee (209-625-5711) in
Visalia, California was contacted. Lou Griswald, the reporter
who covered the crash, conveyed that there were 'many'
people who reported a 'bright object' in the Kern Canyon
vicinity at 11:00 p.m. that evening.

Griswald said that Deputy Ernest Cowan acknowledged that the
bright light caused some concern.  Cowan said the object wasn't
a flare, but was most likely a shooting star or possibly 'space
trash' from a satellite launch at Vandenburg Air Force Base.
The object exhibited a strange, 'arcing' motion that, Griswald
said, ruled out a shooting star.

Cowan was not a witness to the event, but had knowledge of
many inquiries regarding the light. Griswald heard about the
bright light from the Deputy and one other person.

"There was some interest and speculation by people who thought
that this bright light was perhaps a flare from the fifth person
in the accident", Griswald said.  The fifth member of the crew,
whose remains were not initially located with the other four,
was assumed to be unaccounted for at the time of the sighting.

There were many phone calls which came in over a wide area of
Tulare County regarding the bright light.  When told that the
Tulare County Sheriff's Department didn't acknowledge reports of
an alleged flare, Griswald speculated that the term 'flare' may
not have been used, and that "half of the precinct probably
wouldn't have known about it."

Comment:

I think this could possibly be a rocket launch or space debris.
The reported 'arcing' motion seems compelling, and the reporter
did not have additional details with which to elaborate on
this alleged characteristic.

Inquiries should be made with Vandenburg Air Force Base to
determine if there were any rocket launches near/around the
11:00 p.m. time frame on February 18, 1998.  A separate
inquiry with NORAD should also be made concerning satellite
or space debris entry during this time frame, visible over
this Tulare County, California.

Additional contact with witnesses could also reveal better
clarifications regarding physical descriptions, ballistic
conduct, duration of event, etc.

I hope to hear and coordinate with any persons willing to
undertake these inquiries so I can install any comments/
findings to the final report.

Filed
February 20, 1998
Kenny Young

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/task/








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                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:41:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:44:39 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

Regarding...

>From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:36:10 EST
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

Robert wrote:

>>  Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:26:06 +0000
>>  From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>>  To: updates@globalserve.net
>>  Subject: Beyond Roswell Q&A Site

>>  A new question and answer session with myself  and Ray Santilli
>>  regarding the alien autopsy film has now been added to our new
>>  web site. You can


>First question that comes to mind.

>"Ray, why have you continually broken your word (lied??) by NOT
>giving KODAK a couple of frames from the films?"


Robert,

There are perhaps some misunderstandings involved in this issue.

Ray might ask, when did he ever say that any 'archive 16mm'
frames from the 'autopsy', should they astonishingly exist of
course, would definitely be given to Kodak?

As past mentioned, he did in fact categorically state the
opposite:

"Yes there are further plans with regard to the verification of
the film and this will hopefully be done at the time of the
cameramans interview However we will NOT be going to KODAK".

Verbatim written response from Ray Santilli to a question during
a CompuServe conference, 24 March 1996.

As this was confirmed almost two years ago now, there was not a
continually broken promise, at least publicly.


We can go back even further, to this categotical statement:

"Plenty of film has been released with a variety of images
including images of the autopsy room. Giving away film with the
creature would be a last resort as the frames are far too
valuable. I think it is also unnecessary as it is part of the
same material already released".

From "Ray Santilli: Questions and Answers, by Susan and Philip
Mantle", late 1995.


So there never really was much prospect of any 'archive 16mm
frames' with images from the 'Roswell' footage ever being
produced as evidence, although those who have been instrumental
in the promotion of this evidently ludicrous 'alien autopsy'
story, may have suggested otherwise.


To clarify Ray's comment that, "there are further plans with
regard to the verification of the film and this will hopefully be
done at the time of the cameramans interview", this almost
certainly refers to the examination of already existing frames
which Philip Mantle had been given and which do not contain
images from the 'autopsy'.

Around the time of the infamous 'cameraman interview', a
colleague of Mantle's, Corrado Malanga, apparently a Chemistry
professor at the University of Pisa, attempted to offer an
opinion on the dating of this copy film. As it wasn't camera
original film and the images therein had no relation to the
footage anyway, even Bob Shell acknowledged it to be rather a
meaningless exercise and personally, he wouldn't have bothered.


All of which shouldn't be taken as a defence of Mr Santilli. As
noted last February, in issue No. 5 of UK magazine, the "X
FACTOR", it was reported:

The X Factor asked music and film producer Santilli if the
autopsy film had been authenticated.

"Yes, pieces of film were sent to Kodak for analysis. They've
confirmed that it dates from 1947".
[End]


If that was his exact response, it simply isn't true, although he
did subsequently clarify the 'pieces of film' had no images of
the 'creature'.

In answer to the follow-up question, "Could the alien be seen in
the pieces of film sent for analysis?" he reiterated:

"No... I'm not prepared to give away any frames showing the
creature. The film's too valuable to cut up and send away".


Which seems to have been the relatively consistant public stance
for at least the past couple of years (not that there's likey to
be any such evidence to produce in the first place).



James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com








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   Feb > Feb 21

                              Re: More Roswell

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:13:57 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:39:09 -0500
Subject: Re: More Roswell


>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:10:15 -0600
>From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: More Roswell

>Making this brief, I just had a business meeting with a young
>attorney whose husband was born in Roswell. My guess is they are
>in their early thirties.

>His father was in the 509th. He's dead now, but mother, uncles,
>and aunts still live in Roswell and were there in 1947.

>The uncles and aunts don't really remember much about it, she
>told me, other than they say the whole town was told by the
>military they were not to discuss it. Back then people trusted
>the authorities and no one questioned it, so they all complied.

>Assuming this is accurate, I wasn't aware they had gone to the
>extreme of telling civilians not directly involved not to talk
>about it.

>Any verification or comments ?

>Dave Vetterick

Dave,

I don't know about the "whole town" of Roswell being told by the
military to keep it all quiet, but in _The Truth about the UFO
Crash at Roswell_ (1994 hardback) KRandle reported several
instances of civilians being hushed up: on pp. 54,72-76, plus
instances where those in the military were of course hushed up.

Jim Deardorff








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                   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

From: dkauble@iquest.net (Dave Kauble)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:33:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:01:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo


>Dave, Jakes and List,

>Considering the equipment, we need more than:

>Camera ............: Minolta Maxum, Rokor 28/80 mm 100 asa

>(should be Maxxum)

>We need:

>The EXACT model - I gather we have AT LEAST the following variants
>from the Maxxum series: Maxxum 5000, 7000, 3000i, 500si

>Lens setting of the zoom lens: 28 mm, 50 mm, 80 mm ?

>Autofocus on/off if any

>Automatic settings on/off if any.

>etc.

>Serge Salvaille


Serge,

I will do my best to obtain this information and forward it to
the list upon receipt.

~Dave









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                           Plagarism and Databases

From: wlmss@pegasus.com.au [Lawrie Williams]
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:13:38 +1000 (GMT+1000)
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:57:08 -0500
Subject: Plagarism and Databases

> From: Stig_Agermose@online.pol.dk (Stig Agermose)
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:31:24 +0200
> Subject: New Poll: Canada Has Most UFO Believers

> These items were found in the news section of the Sci-Fi
> Channel's "Sightings" page. URL:
> http://www.scifi.com/sightings/web091197/news.html

> CHUPACABRAS ON THE NET!
> On the World Wide Web, a blood sucking humanoid first discovered
> in Puerto Rico is now invading *the Internet. The Chupacabra or
> goat sucker is the latest monster to emerge from the shadows of
> myth and take the heat for a mysterious string of bizarre
> livestock deaths. With one *mouse click, you can download images,
> get up to date facts with the chupacabra time line and read first
> hand accounts as they come in from new eyewitnesses.

Plagarism and Databases
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HEY This Sucks More than the Chupacabaras!

Up to date facts with the chupacabaras timeline?

I went to see what "timeline" there was to be found, and the only
one I found was at:

> http://www.princeton.edu/~accion/chupa21.html

It is waaaay out of date and carries relatively little
information. It is from the Art Bell Home page. In fact it is
mine: I wrote it.

Waaaaay back I compiled a brief chronology while trying to make
sense of the chupas reports. Art Bell saw it and I was asked if
it could be posted there. I said Sure, and so it was. They posted
the file "As Is" including my name as the author. I felt
flattered. All done according to the book.

They even x-linked my email address to it. I got several messages
from people with opinions and a few more from people clearly who
had gone onto the net to find out something. I responded to the
latter with the data they sought, usually some clipped files and
contacts. No big deal. Its worth it, I'm glad to help and some
day someone might send me some useful information. They needn't
even have asked. But altering the file, that is another matter.

But at    http://www.princeton.edu/~accion/chupa21.html
I feel something unethical has taken place, the file has been
mutilated and it is unattributed. Not nice. I've tried to email
them to ask what gives but the message bounced. Not that I'm
exactly losing any sleep over it.

But this does seem to illustrate how little actual scholarship
takes place on the internet. If a little job like that is the
best chronology of the chupas around......gee whizz.

I sure hope that database idea goes ahead. All it needs is lots
of dedicated space, with a mirror. Keep it simple and in htm and
ascii. Organize it in three levels from highest to lowest:

CASE       A recognized Incident with sufficient verified details.

INCIDENT   A quorum has ranked a Report as "valid" but details
           lacking

REPORT     Anyone can post a report but it is unverified.



The idea being to keep the database management to a minimum.

So all reports whatever their value are on record, and the
better stuff has a means of floating towards the top.

So for instance if someone wants to make a decent chupacabras
timeline all they have to do is do a textfile search and assemble
the files that pop up in chronological order. I hope I am wrong
but I have seen nowhere on the net (yet) where that is possible
with things paranormal.

And as another example, the incidents I observed/recorded in
May/June 1995 would become a Record. Specific details could be
checked, for instance I see "Wycliffe Well, UFO Capital of
Australia" is now a web site. Newspaper articles could be
appended, and finally a quorum of good ufologists and true could
decide to rank it as an Incident. With the accumulation of
evidence linking US ATF's and familiar spirit phenomena and
telepathy with UFO encounters, it might one day become a Case.

Also if someone filches it and places a chopped and unattributed
copy on some site or publishes it, the original dated record is
always there.

That would reduce the tendency for people to take material like
my paltry chupas chronology, mutilate it and place it elsewhere
without any attributions. Not quite bloodsucking, but enough to
rank as a hickey!


Lawrie Williams_________________









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                              Re: More Roswell

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:09:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:32:30 -0500
Subject: Re: More Roswell


>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:21:36 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: More Roswell


>While in Roswell for the 50th last July, I ended up waiting in a
>long line at a book signing (Corso's) and met several local
>residents and got into a discussion of the incident in 1947.  One
>woman indicated that her father had been with the Fire Department
>in 1947 and had been instructed by the military to not discuss
>the incident.  She said neither she, nor anyone else in her
>family had been able to get him to talk about what had happened.
>This was also because the military had orderred them not to talk
>about it.

>Of course, this was only a conversation held in passing, and I
>now have no way of confirming the tale or asking questions. Of
>course Roswell is now making money from this "event", and one has
>to determine whether the comments made by residents are designed
>to promote the truth or tourism.

>The woman I spoke with sounded sincere, but who knows.

>Steve Kaeser


Steve,

Since Beyond Roswell came out I've gotten several letters from
people who were Roswell residents and say the same.  I think the
military clamped a very tight lid on this, but with military and
civilians.

All this for a balloon????  Come on!

I just got a letter this week from a person in Hawaii who wishes
to remain anonymous for now.  She says that her grandfather was
in the 509th at the time, and has always told them that it really
happened.  She has promised me to try and get a public statement
from him, but thinks he might still be too scared of the govt to
go public.

I think a LOT of people know what happened.  I just hope we can
get past their fear before they all die.

Bob









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                 Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website

From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:42:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:36:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website

Errol, I was away on vacation. What do you know.... he acknowledged my
site's existence. The following is for distribution. Thanks, J.C.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

JC:   Mr. Oberg, thanks for your acknowledgement.  There are those who
would say the rebuttal not as "pitiable" as you seem to think. Is there
something specific in the essays you wish to comment upon?  :-)

Jerry Cohen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website

From: JamesOberg@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:37:37 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:53:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website


>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:36:24 -0500
>To: " UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
>Subject: Notice to Researchers: Upgraded website


>Just wanted to let everyone know that the Oberg/Cooper Website
>has been upgraded

Considering the low level of the pitiable "rebuttal" to my circa
1983 study of why Cooper's UFO stories (and stories _about_
Cooper and UFOs which do not originate from him) are not reliable
evidence for "true UFOs", any change is likely to be an
improvement.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -










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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #225

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:46:14 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:28:19 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #225

Apology to MW #225 (For February 21, 1998)

I'm borne away, and floating to the house sized flying saucer! Then
through it's hull, I'm drawn inside like so much smoke or vapor!

I'm on a promenade (?), somehow, a vast surreal structure, weird *beings*
are walking past me unconcerned. I'm about to shout excuse me, what the
HELL is going on, and one comes up directly, unobserved. It's *hand* is
on my forearm, it *says*, "please to come with me", and I wonder that
I've had a stroke, or dream out right, indeed.

I've read of this, a cerebral accident, when part of your brain just
implodes. With brain cells requiring free-basing oxygen, strange visions
leap forth and explode. Remaining moments linger in this weird
hallucination, then comes the dissolution and the final obfuscation.
Unconsciousness then slips right in and no one can detect you, and as far
as is determined you're then buried -- beyond use, Stu. <g>

Still, did I linger -- and explain what I saw, led, by an alien, along
like a dog? I stopped, for a moment, afraid and pissed off, "When was I
asked "?, I sputtered, and coughed. "Where was my in-vite, why'd you pick
me? What is that smell? What do I see"? What is your program, what is
this place, why are you suddenly up in my face"?

"We like your poems (?)", appeared in my mind. "Every *thing* was
alright, every *thing* was just fine. This can still work", was then sent
as a post script, "we've so much to show you, you asked for your up slip!
Could it be we don't know you -- a mistake has been made"? We've watched
your beginnings -- you asked for this, mate."

"There's little respect in result of a snatch", I replied in blooming awe
at what my eyes could touch and scratch! I shook off the little alien and
walked off to the edge. This was really happening then, I began to self
allege. I felt my arms, and smoothed my hair, and rubbed my face too
hard. Well, I'll be blessed, and filled my lungs, such smells then came
like shards. Unpleasant AND enticing completely strange, unknown, pickles
in old cinnamon, old pyramidal stone.

Surreal and otherworldly like an international mall, the smells of
different shops, other markets, different halls. And then completely
pleasant, that I filled my lungs like friends, and asked the little
alien, what was that smell again?

"That is simply ships air -- and different through the day -- the ship
itself's a living thing, the smells from faraway. This ship has spanned
the galaxy, and has lived apart from us, they've spanned perhaps a
billion years, alongside us, two million plus."

I was standing at the rim up high, before me spread a basin. It was
perhaps ten miles across, but hard to judge, I hasten. A city miles below
me, and was grown it seemed from crystal, but blued with reddish
highlights like a flashlight or a pistol.

I felt the alien's hand, again, so lightly on my arm, "We must go now,"
it said tersely, did I detect it was alarmed? "How long have you been
watching us"? I asked, but stood my ground. "We watched your dim
beginnings. What you'll learn you'll find profound."

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

History has always been written by the winners. Just the winners -- not
_necessarily_ the ethical, or the just, or the educated, or the wise --
or even the brave =85 just the winners. We have no idea what actually
occurred before a time when actual sounds and images could be committed
to some kind of durable record of tape, disk, or stone; and much of that
has been hidden or otherwise destroyed by, yet again, the ubiquitous
winner.  Hitler won in the short term; Stalin won in the short term for
as long as he was alive. Saddam has been winning for decades his
pestilent, short term, and parochial little gains. All write their
histories as they would have them written in the same manner as winners
in the United States will write theirs. Not as it occurred, naturally,
but as they would have had it occur --incomplete and complimentary. It's
why our kids hate us. We feed them a thin gruel of impossibly noble and
largely fictional role models to measure themselves by, and the kids know
(on a level they cannot yet articulate) that it MUST be complete bull
shit. For my part, having bought in for so long -- reading some primary
references has ignited in me a healthy resentment! And I can articulate
mine.

What if there was an off planet repository of what actually went down=85
I'd like to see it, wouldn't you?

Free John Ford!

--
Explore the Alien View?

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the
fundamentalist's stake for going aboard.








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                               Alien Litter...

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:52:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:52:03 -0500
Subject: Alien Litter...





From: The Toronto Star
      Saturday, February 21, 1998
      by Glasbergen <glasbergen@aol.com>

For those of us who don't peruse the Weekend Funnies...

Sue spotted this one.

ebk
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   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 21

                  CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Re: UFOR: Green Blood

From: Samuel Sherman <FLEXARET2@AOL.COM>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:36:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:23:55 -0500
Subject: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS: Re: UFOR: Green Blood

from: flexaret2@aol.com (Sam Sherman) 2-21-98
To:Francis Ridge

I think you are doing an excellent job in the hard evidence
area of UFO research.

I have been researching the UFO field for over 30 years- am still
in production on a long time documentary film project about the
UFO phenomenon BEYOND THIS EARTH.

In my research I have gone to numerous government archives and
searched out much important UFO information. One of my best
discoveries was the UFO alert of 7 Oct 65 at Edwards AFB. I made
this into an audio documentary, which has been very well received
by serious researchers and given me great credibility in the UFO
field. I now have a website for information and marketing of this
documentary and you can find out about my work at:

http://www.binarymedia.com/edwards.html

When I spoke about Green Blood and the Philippine movie - it was
not as a joke. The script was written in the Philippines, a
similar place to Puerto Rico, where there have been many strange
UFO encounters over years but not well documented. As for
research from Puerto Rico. Jorge Martin is an excellent serious
researcher and I interviewed him for my film. I would say their
could be a grain of truth at least in anything he claims.

Cordially,
Sam Sherman






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 21

                   UFOR: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:55:55 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:16:05 -0500
Subject: UFOR: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years


From: Jorge Mart=EDn <jmartin@coqui.net>

Important Aspects of the UFO / Alien Situation in Puerto Rico

By Jorge Martin
UFO Researcher - Puerto Rico
C. 1992, Puerto Rico. All rights reserved by Jorge Martin.
Procedence: UFOR

In this report we inform on some of the important UFO/Alien
incidents that have ocurred in Puerto Rico in the last ten years.
The number of cases reported here are represent mainly the
situation in the southwest of Puerto Rico, and is only but a very
small example of the many such important situations going on in
the island.

Anomalous explosion and quake - How it all began

On May 31, 1987, at 1:55 P.M., the inhabitants of the southwest
of Puerto Rico were shaken by both a strong tremor and the sound
of a loud explosion which seemed to come from underground.
Thousands experienced with fear the unexpected phenomenon.

The press media reported heavily on the earthquake, and published
several accounts of neighbors from the towns of Cabo Rojo, Lajas
and Mayaguez, stating how the ground shook up and down for some
moments as they all heard the explosion. Also, homes and
buildings in the region cracked due to the quake.

Originally, the tremor=92s epicenter was pinpointed by the Puerto
Rico Seismologic Service at 81,000 ft. deep under the Laguna
Cartagena, a lagoon located between the towns of Lajas and Cabo
Rojo, but the next day the report was strangely changed, stating
that the explosion and tremor=92s epicenter was located out at sea
to the west of Puerto Rico, in the Mona Channel. This sudden
change of the data was very suspicious, as it seemed that
'someone' wanted to veer the public's attention from the Laguna
Cartagena site. Why do we think this? The following situations
will explain it, as, ogether with the =93earthquake=94, other events
unfolded in that and the following days, wich were not informed
to the public, and after being disclosed by us during our
investigation in the area, gave a broader aura of mystery to the
situation.

The next day after the tremor and explosion, on sunday June 1,
1987, at about 10:00 P.M., a huge unidentified flying object was
seen hovering over the Laguna Cartagena. Many witnesses,
residents in communities all around the site, saw the incredible
object as it remained hanging there in the night sky, from their
homes in the Betances Community, Maguayo comm-unity and others.
Mr. Carlos Mercado, explained what he and others saw: =93I was
looking towards the Sierra Bermeja and the laguna and all of a
sudden I saw two very big and bright stars or lights that were
coming down very slowly side by side. I called my wife and got my
binoculars. The lights were at the end of something very big that
looked like a huge metallic looking silvery pipe. It was
cylindrical with two big balls of greenish-white light at each
end. On the object=92s underside there was something like a
revolving reddish light.=94

Mrs. Hayde=E9 Alvarez, Mercado's wife, who we also interviewed on
the incident, said: =93...they were like two very big stars, the
size of a half dollar coin, joined by a long, metallic big pipe
with lights underneath it.

=94Mercado and his family and neighbors have been witnesses to many
of the UFO incidents in that sector because they live right in
front of the main hot ufo spots there, the already mentioned
Laguna Cartagena and the Sierra Bermeja, a small mountain ridge
that for years have been a site of many UFO related incidents.

 rs. Rosa Acosta, also a resident of the same community, said
that: =93It was really big! I was seeing it from about three
kilometers away and I could still see it about six inches long
from the distance... It was incredible! That thing came down and
hovered there, motionless over the Laguna Cartagena, in the air.
Then, about 15 minutes later, it flew up and dissapeared to the
south behind the Sierra Bermeja. This isn=92t new here.
These mysterious lights and artifacts have been seen here for
years, specially in that place. There have been ocassions in wich
I=92ve been in my hammock, here in the terrace, and all of a sudden
a bright light is shining on me from above. When I look up, one
of this things, something saucer shaped, is over me and shining a
bright white light on me. This has happened a couple of
times...Why they do it, I don=92t know...and why me...I wonder
about it.=94

Carlitos Mu=F1oz, a young lad present during the interviews,
explained his whole family has been seeing this type of objects
for some time: =93About a year ago [1986], one night, all of us at
home saw a very big platform, something that came down from the
sky and remained motionless there, over the Laguna Cartagena. It
had very bright yellow and green lights, and many smaller
luminous objects were coming out from the underside of that
platform and flying away in different directions. They kept going
in and out from that thing. After some minutes the smaller
objects entered the big one and it flew away and dissapeared up
in the sky. It happens regularly... and always over the Sierra
Bermeja and the Laguna.=94

Many people called the regional radio stations to report the
sighting of the huge UFO over the lagoon, but astoundingly, these
object returned for two more consecutive nights to the place,
always at 10:00 - 10:30 P.M. , remaining motionless over the
Laguna at about 500 ft. of altitude, for some minutes, before
leaving.

Enigmatic circles and beamed =93X rays=94

Some days later, moved by the reports from witnesses indicating
that the objects always flew away over and behind the Sierra
Bermeja, next to the Laguna Cartagena, we went to the sector
behind the ridge, the Olivares sector and the garbage dump area
there, already in the municipality of the town of Lajas, and next
to =93La Parguera=94 resort area, also in Lajas. While investigating
there we made an unexpected finding, several perfect circular
marks clearly defined as if cut over the terrain could be clearly
seen in a field next to the Sierra Bermeja, in a land sector that
belonged to Mr. Fidel Avil=E9s, a land owner and businessman. When
measured, most of the circles were 35 to 40 ft. in diameter and
perfectly defined by a rim 3 ft. wide, a rim almost totally
devoid of grass, in wich the soil seemed to have been baked by a
great heat effect and become harder than the soil outside the rim
or inside of it. Only the soil inside the rim seemed to be
affected, different. The small quantity of grass still in the
rim=92s area was totally dried up and dead.

When asked, all neighbors were surprised to see the circles, they
had not noticed them before. The circles seemed to have formed
there overnight.

The neighbors stated they knew nothing about them, that they
usually go to sleep early, so they couldn=92t tell whatever happend
or what formed them, but they all stated that for several nights,
beginning with the night after the so called =93earthquake=94 and
=93explosion=94 they had seen =93... strange lights and a very big
object with many colored lights hovering in the sky and flying
over the Sierra Bermeja in the direction of Cabo Rojo and the
Laguna, to the other side of the Sierra.=94 The descriptions of the
objects seen by them were similar to the ones given by the
witnesses from the other side of the Sierra., towards Betances
and Maguayo communities.

Mr. Roosevelt Acosta, his brother Heriberto and other relatives
who live in Olivares sector all attested to this, also indicating
that on some ocassions neighbors there, as well as themselves,
had seen strange small beings which seemed to have a faint glow
to their bodies and which dissapeared very fast whenever they
were approached by the witnesses.

On one ocassion Mrs. Dol=EDn Acosta, anothe r resident of Olivares
sector, was in her home's balcony and a bright beam of light
suddenly came from above and engulfed her. =93It was a very bright
white light- she said -, and it was coming from above the
balcony=92s ceiling. There was a hole in the ceiling and as I
looked up... There was a thing up there... Something like a big
ball of light, and a bright beam of light was coming out of it
and shining on me. When I looked at myself... I couldn=92t believe
it! I could see my bones! It was as if I looking at an X ray
plaque! I could see the bones in my fingers, in my arms, my
body...even my toes! That object was up there and I could hear a
soft sound coming out from it, something like air being ejected
out from it at intervals, like pssss...pssss...pssss=94.

It then left, but for some minutes I could still see myself like
that. My sister Eunice came out from her room to see what was
causing the bright light and we both could see the inside of our
bodies, our bones. When I looked at her she had no eyes, I could
clearly see her empty eye sockets, and she saw the same thing on
me. After about five minutes we were back to normal.=94 No after
effects were ever felt by Dol=EDn and her sister.

But let=92s get back to the circles. Mr. Fidel Avil=E9s, owner of the
land where they appeared, stated:  =93I=92ve lived here for 50 years
and I never saw anything like this. Those circles appeared there
overnight after the explosion and the tremor.=94

Avil=E9s has a small foods store there in Olivares, and other three
circles had appeared behind the store the morning we interviewed
him. His son, Fillo Avil=E9s, who attends the store, explained that
that same morning a young man, very nervous, had come to the
store and explained him and others there that he was camping with
a group of friends farther down the road and went out for a ride
in his motorcycle at about 3:00 A.M.  As he passed in front of
the store he saw that there were three strange luminous objects
hovering next to the ground behind the store. According to what
the young man told Fillo, the luminous things he saw were =93...
round, soundless, and looked like upside down dishes, with brigth
yellowish light emanating from them=94. He got scared and left the
place at once.

About the circles we found, at first there were 8 circles, two
days later there were 12 of them. Intrigued, we talked about it
with our friends Captain Luis Irizarry, a certified airplane and
airline pilot with many years of experience, and Julio C=E9sar
Rivera, a flying student. They agreed on taking us in Irizarry=92s
plane to overfly the area and take some photos.

As we did it we were surprised by what we saw: There were 38 of
those circles there in the terrain! They looked totally
symmetrical and tended to be in pairs. Some days later we took
some samples from the soil in the circles and sent them to the
Agricultural Extension Division Program in Mayaguez, a major city
next to Cabo Rojo, in order to check if a type of mushroom that
we found at the place could have formed the circles, but it was
certified by the program=92s citologist that the type of fungus
involved couldn=92t have formed them. Also, the soil samples showed
that the ph in the soil had changed, but only in the rim's area.
The other samples taken from inside and outside the circles were
totally normal. But there were many other strange things
pertaining to the so called =93earthquake=94. Let's see them.


Cobalt blue smoke and mysterious men in Laguna Cartagena

We found more weird angles to what happened before, during and
after the tremor of May 31, 1987. Several neighbors of Maguayo
sector, next to the Laguna, stated that the night prior to the
explosion and tremor they had seen a strange big =93red ball of
fire=94 which flew and made several turns over the Laguna and then
descended in a controlled and slow fashion while making a buzzing
sound, and disappeared slowly into the waters of the Laguna
Cartagena.

At 2:00 A.M., many residents of Maguayo were awakened by a very
strong and brilliant white light that was coming in thru all the
windows and openings in their houses. Curious about it, the
neighbors looked out and were amazed by the sight of a huge
flying saucer type craft that was hovering low over the laguna,
as if searching for something there.

According to them all, the craft was covered by bright white
light and it was circling the area very slowly. After about 2
minutes the craft left, dissapearing in the sky very fast. The
next day, at 1:55 p.m. the tremor and explosion occurred. We must
remember that the epicenter of the tremor and explosion was
originally oficially pinpointed by the authorities at 81,000 ft.
deep under the Laguna Cartagena... An unidentified object is seen
entering the laguna, another unidentified object is seen late at
night hovering and circling over the laguna as if looking for
something there ...and the next day an explosion that rocks the
whole region is felt ...having originated in the Laguna
Cartagena. What really happened inthat place?

After this incident, many jet fighters, helicopters and big AWACs
type radar planes were being seen constantly flying low and
circling over the laguna as if searching for something there, and
the fishermen and neighbors continued to report seeing UFOs going
in and out from the sea, at the coastline, as well as hovering
over the Sierra Bermeja and the Laguna Cartagena.

Several cracks in the land appeared after the explosion, in
different places of Lajas and Cabo Rojo, and many wit-nesses
stated that a bright cobalt blue colored smoke issued out with
force from these crevices. Mr. Pedro Asencio Vargas, resident in
sector =93La 22=94, of Llanos Tuna, Cabo Rojo, and who is a teacher,
stated this happened at his home: =93I saw it clearly, some cracks
appeared in the ground in my yard and this blue smoke came out
from them with force. This frightened me and my family. I feared
that maybe a volcano was forming in my land. Some people from the
Mayaguez Agricultural and Mechanical Arts College [part of the
University of Puerto Rico complex specialized in engineering and
agricultural techniques] came to check on what happened, but
strangely, they refused to take samples of the residues from the
blue smoke and powder that remained on some of the plants and the
ground. That was strange, because they said that they were
investigating what happened... Then, why would they refuse to
take the samples and analyze them? I still don=92t understand their
behavior.=94  But this bright cobalt blue smoke also issued out
from the Laguna Cartagena, according to several witnesses. Mr.
Carlos [Carlencho] Medina, together with other residents of the
Maguayo community, stated that after the explosion there was a
bright blue smoke issuing out from the lagoon [cobalt blue smoke
has nothing to do with vulcanism or seismic-geological activity],
and the place was cordoned off by a strange unidentified
personnel. This personnel was composed by some men dressed in
camouflaged fatigue military uniforms with their I.D. tags
covered with tape labels, others were dressed as civilians in
plain clothes or elegant suits, but with rubber boots up to their
knees, and still others were dressed in white head to toes
coverall anticontamination type suits. The men dressed in the
anticontamination suits had thick dark grey gloves and boots on
and were taking samples in huge traslucent cannisters of the
lagoon=92s water, mud and soil, as well as of the plants there.
According to the witnesses, they had some type of =93radios=94 they
were using to check something in the water, their descriptions of
the =93radios=94 reminded us of radiation counters.

The military and the men in suits prevented anyone from getting
to the place, stating that special personnel was there =93... to
investigate whatever happened here=94, and that no one was to be
allowed into the area. Medina and others explained that the
second day a dark green military helicopter with no markings was
brought to the area and a big metallic ball with something that
looked like electronic equipment on it was lowered into the water
attached to a very long metallic line that was attached to the
helicopter. The personnel there seemed to be looking for
something. The witnesses also noted there were a number of beige
colored vans and Bronco type vehicles with small revolving
parabolic type antennaes on top of them.

Mrs. Zulma Ram=EDrez de Perez, who was, at that time, one of the
owners, together with her family, of part of the land where the
Laguna Cartagena is located, went to the site with her sister to
see what had happened because they had seen bright blue smoke
issuing out from the lagoon in an area where there is water [the
same area Carlos Medina and others went to]. Several american men
dressed in dark suits with a rectangular red tag on the right
side of their suits, some type of american agents, according to
the ladies, approached them and ordered them to leave the place
at once. They explained that the land was theirs and the agents
replied that they didn=92t care, that they would have to leave
anyway, and said they were trying to find out what really
happened there. This was strange, as in the previous ocassion
with Carlos Medina, the women were told that they were trying to
determine what happened there... But wasn=92t it officially
informed by the authorities that it was a tremor what had
happened there... or wasn=92t it? These men were tall, caucasian,
blond and dressed in fine looking suits, but wearing, as already
stated, what seemed to be black rubber boots. They also had
metallic silvery briefcases with them, according to the two
sisters.

At this point Mrs. Ram=EDrez said something very important, she
stated her entire family had been seeing flying saucer type
crafts coming out from or entering the waters of the Laguna
Cartagena since the year1956. =93At first they were very bright and
luminous - she said -, and as they came out you could define more
clearly their shape. They were disc shaped, silvery, metallic,
with translucid domes on top and they had many beautiful colored
lights all around them. They made a whooshing sound. You could
see people, figures inside the domes, because on some ocassions,
when they came out we yelled at them and they would stop in the
air in front of us. We tried to report these things we were
seeing to the media, but no one would pay attention to us by
then, so we just let it be.

=93In fact, my brother Quint=EDn, now dead, one night back in 1964,
yelled at them that he wanted to know how they were, to see if
they were really from outer space, as people said, and that same
night he had an encounter with them. He went to bed and suddenly
felt an urge to go to the laguna. He got dressed, got on his jeep
and drove toward =93Las Guan=E1banas=94 dirt lane, to the back of the
laguna. Getting off the jeep he saw two figures approaching him
from the laguna. They were tall white men, about 6 to 7 ft. tall.
Men with long fair blond hair and dressed in one piece
tightfitting silvery suits. They were very beau-tiful and
delicate, almost women looking, he said. He was too nervous, and
he asked them not to come any closer, that he couldn=92t stand it.
They smiled sweetly to him and walked back into the lagoon. He
fled the place and in the morning explained everything to us. He
was very upset because we wouldn=92t believe him. After that he
never said anything else to us. We know he had other encounters
with this beings, because some nights he disappeared into the
laguna, and he wouldn=92t talk about what he was doing there all
night. But we knew he was with =93his friends=94, as he used to call
them. I=92m sorry he=92s dead now, because I know he=92d be happy
hearing all the things people are saying about the laguna and
aliens there, because it would back up everything he said.=94

The day after the explosion and tremor, a green military unmarked
helicopter landed on top of one of the hills of Sierra Bermeja,
just behind the residence of Mr. Milton Velez. Velez, his wife
and children all saw several men dressed in green military
fatigues and boots and wearing black berets get off the
helicopter and start scanning the soil all over the hill with
instruments which looked to Milton as metal detectors. =93They
looked as special forces people to me - stated Velez-, they were
looking for something up there. After an hour so, they left in
the helicopter without any explanations.=94 In more recent days
Velez, his family and neighbors have all seen luminous flying
saucers that come down from the sky in the night and remain
motionless next to a radar blimp installed there by the
goverment. After some minutes the UFOs leave very fast. This has
become a common event there. More on this radar blimp involvement
with the situation will be discussed further ahead in this
report.


Earthlights?

Due to the many sightings of luminous objects and repeated
explosions in the area, the authorities, this by means of
official 'explanations' given by seismologists, stated that all
the sightings were due to earth energies released to the
at-mosphere over these areas from geological faults deep
underground. According to them, the friction in these faults
produced the 'lights', dismissing the UFO sightings as
misidentifications by the unknowing witnesses.

The real situation was that many of the sightings had to do with
well defined solid, metallic objects that flew over the areas in
an inteligently controlled fashion. Most of the UFOs were
saucerlike and cigar shaped objects. Others were described as
balls of light or balls that also flew in a controlled manner.

Mr. Luis Bonet, from the town of Hormigueros, about 20 miles
away from Cabo Rojo, intrigued by the incidents in the Laguna
Cartagena, visited the place late at night to see if he could see
anything strange there. Instead he experienced this: "After the
explosion, some days later, I went there to see what was
happening. I was walking in the darkness and suddenly someone
touched me in the back. That scared me and I let a foul word
out.

Whoever it was responded in English and asked me who I was and
what I was doing there, that I had to leave at once or I'd get
into a problem. I told him, an american blonde man dressed in a
fine black suit with a tie, that I was investigating on what had
happened there, and he ordered me to get out from the place,
stating that they [whoever they were] were investigating if
whatever happened there was something natural or something else.
I didn't want any problems, so I left."

Two policemen, a black helicopter and =91federal agents=92

Also, and this is the first time we are disclosing this, we interviewed a
policeman who was at the laguna with another fellow policeman friend of
his a couple of days before the explosion. Something happened there that
day they=92ll never forget.

According to the policeman, they had gone to the lagoon to do
some fishing, and suddenly his friend and fellow policeman saw
strange movements in a slope in one of the hills of the Sierra
Bermeja and smoke issuing from the ground. He went up the hill to
have a look and saw several men dressed in coverall silvery
looking suits together with gloves and boots who were checking
something in the area with what looked like geiger counters. His
friend calls him and as he climbs up the hill they notice some
other men, dressed likewise, hauling three big rolls of thick
black electrical or communications rubber covered cables several
inches wide in big black trucks. The men then entered one of the
cables in the lagoon=92s water, spe-cifically in the area free from
the grass that grows on most of it=92s surface [the area where most
of the sightings have ocurred and from where the Ram=EDrez=92s used
to see the ufos come out from]. The other trucks entered a lane
in one of the cattle ranches there to the right and was lost from
their sight.

At that moment a helicopter appeared as from nowhere and someone
ordered them thru a speaker to stop where they were and get down
the hill at once.
The policeman, whose name we can=92t give for obvious security
reasons, explained that: =93It was a big black helicopter with no
markings. Someone inside of it ordered us to stop and said they
knew we were armed. How did they know that we had our guns with
us? I still can=92t understand that.

Maybe they had some type of equipment in the helicopter that
enabled them to know about it. We came down from the hill and
they landed next to us, very fast. Two men dressed in black
jumpsuits and armed jumped down from the helicopter and asked my
friend to come closer. They were white, with dark hair and
moustaches, hispanic looking. He joined them and came back very
upset, with a worried look.

=93Now we are in trouble - he said - they are federal people
[agents].=94I told him not to worry and we both went to the
helicopter. They asked what we were doing and we explained that
we were policemen off duty fishing at the place=94. They answered
in perfect spanish with puertorican accent: =93You can=92t go up
there. This is a restricted place under the U.S. federal
goverment and we are doing an experiment here.=94 What type of
experiment, they never said [this stament from the helicopter men
was a lie, because the area was not =93leased=94 to the U.S. Federal
Goverment by an =93agreement=94 between the puerto rican local
government and the U.S. Fishing and Wildlife Service until August
8, 1989].=94

The policeman continued explaining: =93They took us away to an area
there between two hills in the sierra, and there was a camping
tent. A tall white man dressed in a military suit came out from
the tent, he seemed to be an american officer. This man talked to
them, and we perceived he was asking them why they had taken us
there. He seemed very concerned and annoyed by our presence.=94

After talking with the military man one of the men approached
them and the next thing they are aware of is that they are lying
face down on the ground in the dirt road that goes out from the
Laguna Cartagena to road 101. Our policeman is the first one to
react, and when he is coming to, he heard a man say in perfect
spanish: =93Hey, they are waking up. Let=92s go.=94 Then some men got
into a car and left very fast. Both policemen woke up, but
remained dazed for some time, sitting there in the dirt road.
They left the place and never returned to it. Our policeman=92s
friend remained somewhat disturbed after the experience, moving
later to New York, and he=92s not coming back to Puerto Rico.

=93I don=92t know what happened. Those men did something to us,
because we can=92t remember what happened after the man with the
military officer came to us at the tent camp, only that we woke
up in the dirt road and in a dazed state. It was as if we had
been drugged and taken there. Now I can say that. I=92m sure they
drugged us somehow. But why? We didn=92t see anything important...
I think... Only these men in the silvery suites with the cables
going into the water... Who knows... maybe that is what they
didn=92t want us to see... and the military officer... And then,
some days later the explosion and the earthquake there... All
this is weird, very weird=94, commented the policeman.

On March 4, 1988, at 2:00 P.M., another strong underground
explosion was felt and heard in the Lajas-Cabo Rojo area. Radio
broadcaster Raymond Stewart, from Super B radio station in Lajas,
described the explosion as "Incredible!", stating it seemed more
like an undergroud blasting than an earthquake. Many people
called the radio station to inquire on the situation, and also to
report on the sighting of two huge balls of orange light that
came down from the sky and hovered over the Laguna Cartagena.
The sightings were explained away by the local authorities as
observations of the planets Jupiter and Venus, but the fact is
that both objects had a bright orange color and were observed
moving in the sky by hundreds of witnesses, many of them from
different observation points all over the region. Analyzing the
many reports given by the witnesses, we came to he conclussion
that both objects were right over Laguna Cartagena when sighted.
Also, we verified Jupiter's and Venus's position in the sky that
day and they were in an astral position to the northwest. Also,
they had a whitish glow, not an orange one.

At the same time, squadrons of military U.S. jets began flying
low over the area and specially over the Laguna Cartagena,
together with a big green military airplane with a round radar
dish on top of it [Hawkeye, AWAC?]. These type of radar is used
for special missions. All this worried the residents in the zone.
What was this special radar reconnoisance aircraft looking for in
the Laguna? Were the jets escorting it for protection? If so,
why? No one knows yet the answers to these questions.

After these =93tremors=94 the number of sightings and incidents
continued growing. In one of the many sightings in the sector, on
wednesday March 8, 1988, at about 5:40 P.M., Mr. Jesus Padilla
and several other neighbors from Parcelas Betances community
observed a strange black triangle-piramid shaped object with
colored lights fly over the sector and to the west.

In April 1, 1988, there was another explosion and another big
ball of light was observed coming from the south and hovering
over the Sierra Bermeja. Several residents of Betances community
saw a huge cigar shaped object with colored lights and two
smaller ones that came out from the first one which hovered over
the Laguna and then flew away to the west, positioning themselves
for some minutes over the Sierra Bermeja, right over the
premises, then under construction, of a so called Voice of
America Radio Station. The sector involved with this "Voice of
America station" has been a place of many UFO sightings too. For
some strange reason these objects seem to keep a surveillance on
the area. The U.S. Government built something there, but the
announced radio station has never operated. The area is off
limits to everyone, but no one knows what really was built there.
After hovering over the mountain the smaller light entered the
bigger one and then the main object flew away to the west,
dissapearing from sight. Among the witnesses of this sighting
were Mrs. Dora Rodr=EDguez Acosta, Mr. Edgardo Plaza, Miss Karen
Mercado and Miss Marylin Acosta, and some others.

In November, 1988, almost 300 people participating in a political
rally saw a cigar shaped luminous UFO hovering above Betances
community, and then over the Sierra Bermeja and the laguna, while
releasing many smaller luminous objects from its interior. The
sighting lasted for half an hour.

Huge Triangle shaped UFO captured and dissapeared two U.S. Jet
fighters in Cabo Rojo

The situation c ontinued going on and " in crescendo"  until the
night in wich two U. S. Navy jetfighters were apparently abducted
in mid air by a huge triangular shaped UFO and dissapeared in
front of more than 115 witnesses that have surfaced up to this
moment. This event happened in the night of Dec. 28, 1988, at
7:45 P.M.

According to most witnesses, there seemed to be three jetfighters
involved with the incident, two of them dissapeared in mid air as
they intercepted and closed in on the huge triangular UFO, and
the third one fled the area flying to the north, being chased by
several big red balls of light that came out from the UFO. After
this, the UFO split into two separate triangular objects in a
silent flash of light, after which one of the objects or sections
flew off vey fast to the north and the other one flew to the
east, dissapearing. As readers must realize, this incident has
profound implications to all of us, and is one of the most
important UFO incidents reported in the recent years in Puerto
Rico and abroad.


The United States Government =93leases=94 the area

On August 8, 1989, after the jets/UFO incident, after rumors in
that sense, the Laguna Cartagena was =93leased=94 by an =93agreement=94
to the U.S. Wildlife and Fishing Service, in order to =93preserve=94
animal species there in danger of extinction. The area is now
under U.S.  control by this agreement for 50 years, and possibly
for other 50 years after this. Later on, the federal authorities
took control of another UFO hot spot in the Sierra Bermeja, a
field next to the Pitahaya-Olivares sector, in the coast-line,
next to the mangroves channels between La Parguera and the Cabo
Rojo lighthouse or beacon, another area in wich many UFOs are
seen regularly going into the water or flying out from it, an
area that has been closely watched upon by U.S. Navy vessels and
planes, and by those days was restricted and placed under the
control of numerous U.S. military troops for 2 months, with no
explanations to anyone [the lighthouse area].

The =91official=92 reason for controlling the field in the
Pitahaya-Olivares area? The authorities wanted to locate an
aerostat, a potent radar blimp, in that area in order to detect
and prevent drug smuggling by air and by sea. Eventually, the
radar was deployed and anchored there and the place was declared
off limits to everyone. Coincidentally, the same type of aerostat
or radar blimp has been located at other UFO hot spots in the
U.S.A. and other places. One of these hot places is the Gulf
Breeze Pensacola region, where for some years now there has been
a lot of UFO incidence. Another site is Marfa, Texas. But, is
this only by =91coincidence=92? A strange pattern seems to emerge
from all this =91coincidences=92.

Since then, on many ocassions many witnesses, policemen, soldiers
and neighbors to the area, have seen UFOs, both clearly defined
metallic looking discs and luminous objects, fly next to the
blimp and hover next to it emitting strange light flashes in a
pattern similar to one the blimp emits. To some, this seems as if
both airborne objects are communicating thru the light flashes.

Sometimes the UFOs are chased away by U.S. military aircraft, but
as a matter of fact, whenever this happens [the ufos coming down
and hovering next to the radar blimp] the blimp malfunctions and
has to be repaired. According to inside sources all the computer
systems in the installation go blank, they erase, and have to be
re-programmed. To many, the real reason for this installation
there is a different one: the UFO situation in the area. Example
of this is the following sighting by Mr. Luis Collado and some
other residents of Olivares sector.


A strange craft next to the aerostat compound

As we were talking to Mr. Miguel Figueroa, a resident of Lajas,
about an encounter he had had with several 'Gray' type aliens in
road 101, next to the Laguna Cartagena, another man, Mr. Luis
Collado, approached us to tell us about something he had seen in
the night of August 17, 1991, when he saw a strange craft next to
the aerostat facilities.

After being introduced to us by Mr. Benito Collado, he guided us
to the exact spot where he saw the craft, just in front of the
dumping site and next to the aerostat instalation, explaining
that: =93I was driving on this road in Olivares sector at about
2:00 A.M. after leaving the home of some friends in Las Palmas
sector to go home...when suddenly I got here and saw a very weird
thing there in front in the mountain, and stopped my car and got
off it to have a better look. What I saw was something very
strange that was suspended in mid air over that mountain that
divides this sector from La Parguera sector, just in the farm
Freddie Guind=EDn administers.

Look, it was something like one of those so called flying
saucers, but it had something on top... You know the conical
upper part of the witches hats? It was something like that,
conical on top and a circular base around it. It was big and it
had many lights around it. It was metallic, like silvery. But the
strangest thing was there was something coming out from
underneath it, like a swirling mist that went directly down to
the mountain, to the ground, in a column, but swirling, in a
spiraling column.

That column was semiluminous. It was a column of light and clouds
or mist coming down from that object...I believe that thing was
an OVNI [UFO].=94

Luis continued: =93I said to myself...What a strange thing! I had
never seen something like that. And you could hear a humming
sound coming from that thing. It just stood there, and after
looking at it for a while I left. But that thing was really there
and I=92m sure I saw it. And the policemen who watch over that
place [the aerostat facilities] surely saw it too, because that
thing was on top of the mountain at the entrance of the place, so
they also had to see it, there=92s no doubt in my mind about it. If
I felt the humming sound coming from it here, in the road, they
must have heard it louder there, because they were closer to it.
I don=92t know, but we have a feeling here that the aerostat has
nothing to do with the drugs problem, as the goverment wants us
to believe. We think that it has something to do with the UFOs
that are being observed here, maybe to keep an eye on them.=94

He made it clear that at first he was reluctant to talk on what
he saw, fearing no one would believe him, but after hearing us
talking to Mr.Figueroa, he realized the importance of what he saw
pertaining to the UFO situation in the area and changed his mind,
for wich we thanked him deeply.

Collado=92s information was very interesting, but there was nothing
to back it up, fortunately, while visiting that same day Mr.
Roosevelt Acosta=92s residence, his sister Dol=EDn [already mentioned
as=91the woman who was X rayed by a UFO] and her daughters and a
son in law all stated that on the early hours of august 17, 1990,
they all saw while going to Roosevelt=92s home a strange craft
suspended in the air over a mountain next to the aerostat
facilities. According to them it was about 2:00 - 2:30 A.M. when
they saw it, and it was something =93...like a flying saucer with a
pointed thing on top and with many lights. It came flying from
the west and then it suspended itself over that mountain [the
same one Collado identified to us] and something like smoke came
down from it in a swirling motion to the ground.=94

The sighting was confirmed! Four totally independent witnesses
saw the same object reported by Luis Collado at the same hour and
in the same place. Dol=EDn Acosta and her family stated they
observed the UFO for about an hour, after wich they went to
sleep, not knowing what happened to it after that.

Also, among others, Mrs. Jocelyn Irizarry and her family,
residents in road 116 of Lajas, saw a huge flying saucer shaped
craft in the air next to the blimp back in november 1991. Because
of all these situations most residents in the southwest believe
the radar blimp=92s facilities were placed there to keep an eye on
the UFO activity and try to detect the UFO's trajectories and
pinpoint the exact areas they enter or exit constantly from both
at sea and on land.

Has there been reported direct alien presence in the area? Yes,
there has been a lot, and the following are just some examples.

As already mentioned, Mr. Manuel Figueroa, a resident of
Palmarejo sector, in Lajas, had a close encounter with several
'Gray" type alien beings in the early hours of August 31, 1990, a
s he was driving down road 101, close to Laguna Carta-gena. The
creatures had been observed by several other people in the area,
who told him about them and the direction they had takenwalking
down road 101. Surprising to him, he found the five aliens
walking in the road in front of him. They were grey, thin, frail
looking, with large heads, pointed ears, with a slit-like mouth
with no lips, small nostrils for a nose, and large almond shaped
luminous eyes, which issued out a bright white light.. They had
long arms with hands with only three fingers, and feet with only
three toes.

As Figueroa drove closer to them they turned around and looked at
him with their bright eyes, which he understood as a warning for
him to stay away from them. He stopped and then kept following
them from a short distance, afraid, but also fascinated by the
beings. At a moment, they all turned to the left and jumped over
a small bridge in the road into a small creek that connected to
Laguna Cartagena, dissapearing there. Still nervous and shocked
by the encounter, Figueroa left and went home. Bur in the morning
something strange happened. Figueroa received a phone call at
hios home and a man, speaking in Spanish with an American-English
accent, told him not to talk or say anything to anyone about what
he had seen and where the little men had gone into [the Laguna
Cartagena, site of most of the UFO incidents in the area], that
if he did say " something bad could happen to him". That was it!
He was already scared by what he had seen, and then that... What
worried him the most was how the mysterious man had obtained so
quickly his telephone number, because it was a private line, and
even more, it was listed under another person=92s name, not his.
Even so, the man who called wanted to talk directly to him, Mr.
Miguel Figueroa. How could he know...? Figueroa still can=92t
explain it.

At this moment Miguel Figueroa is convinced that what he saw at
the early hours of august 31, 1990 was related to the many UFO
incidents reported in the sector. At first I wouldn=92t talk about
it, but I have seen UFOs, flying saucers in this area before. And
I tell you, what is happening here is real, and these beings must
have a base or something underground in this area. I don=92t think
they are agressive. I was alone, and that light they emitted
indicated that they are powerful, even so, they didn=92t harm me.
They could have, but they didn=92t. It was as if they were telling
me =93don=92t get any closer=92, but they didn=92t want to hurt me. I
only wish this hadn=92t occurred...because I can=92t deal with this.
I would like to forget it all.=94

Coincidentally, both Timothy Good and I, together with other
investifators, were in that very same area in the afternoon of
August 31, 1990, but the report on the case did not come to our
knowledge until days later.


=93Two weird creatures checking a plant...=94

On the night of august 13, 1991, Mrs. Marisol Camacho, a young
woman who lives at the rear of the Maguayo co-mmunity, just next
to the Laguna Cartagena, received an unexpected visit at her home
by two strange and =91weird=92 creatures, as she described them.

=93I was sleeping - she said-, it was about 2:00 a.m. in the
morning, and I heard strange noises outside, next to my balcony.
I got up and came to the balcony=92s window [with metallic venetian
blinds]. There was someone there mumbling something, a strange
jargon. I opened the window very slowly and...Oh, God! There were
two of the weirdest creatures you can imagine standing there in
the balcony!  They were checking one of the plants I have, the
one we call Queso Suizo [=91Swiss cheese=92 - the scientific name of
this plant is =91Monsterosa deliciosa=92, an ornamental tropical
plant with leaves with many holes, therefore such a name]. They
were taking leaves from the plant and mumbling. They looked
really interested in it. I was surprised, and...I don=92t know why,
but I couldn=92t move, I was frozen there...looking at them. They
were almost four ft. tall, and had big heads. The heads were egg
shaped, big at the top and with a narrow chin. They were skinny
and seemed to be gray in color, all gray, and they were naked.
They had big black elongated eyes that tapered to the sides of
their heads. No pupils and no white in them. Their faces were
flat, with a narrow slit for a mouth, no lips, and two small
holes for a nose. I never felt any fear, I was fascinated by what
I was seeing. They seemed like children to me!=93

Asked about their hands, she explained that: =93...they had arms
longer than ours, and long skinny hands with four long fingers.
They didn=92t seem to notice me at the window. They took leaves
from the plant and left talking between them in that fast
mumbling jargon. They left walking slowly toward the Laguna
Cartagena, entered the brush there at the end of the street and
disappeared. I just couldn=92t believe it! What the people around
here was saying was true! There are aliens here! I saw them, and
I=92m sure of what I saw. After they left I could move again. I
went to bed and later explained what I had seen to my husband.=94

But the aliens came back two weeks later: =93It was again late at
night -she said-, I heard the same sounds, got up and went to the
same window, it was partially closed... and there they were
again! The same ones or others identical to the first ones... but

I felt they were the same ones. They were checking the same plant
again and talking in that mumbled jargon... But this time I was
able to move and I tried to tell them something, I began to open
the blinds, but when they heard the window opening they looked at
me very fast and then ran very fast down the street toward the
Laguna Cartagena again, dissapearing there.

=93I don=92t know what they want, but they don=92t seem to be
dangerous. They didn=92t harm me. And they didn=92t harm my dogs, who
slept all the time while they were here in the balcony... One
thing is sure, they are already here, living with us. We should
prepare to face that fact... and I=92m convinced that they are
there in the Laguna Cartagena. That=92s their territory there.=94

A week after this second visit, many of her neighbors were
witness to a brilliantly colored disc that hovered for about 3
minutes some 50 ft. above her home one night at 9:30 p.m.

An alien in the irrigation canal

The witness to this other encounter is Mr. Ulises P=E9rez, a young
man who lives in Lajas. One afternoon, at 11:30 a.m., he was
riding his motorcycle on an accidented dirt road in a desolate
cattle ranch in Cuesta Blanca sector, located between La Parguera
and the Laguna Cartagena, when: =93... the byke fell in a
waterfilled hole and it sputtered and turned off. I began
checking it, because it wouldn=92t start, and after fixing what I
believed to be the cause of the problem, when I was trying to
start it again, I looked there, to that irrigation canal...and I
saw that thing there!

=93What I saw was like... something that was seated or croutched
over a tree=92s log there at the edge of the canal. That thing=92s
skin looked as if raw. You know, as when you cut off a slice of
your skin, that the cut looks whitish with pink-reddish dots in
it? That=92s the way it=92s skin looked. It was a pale whitish skin,
colorless, like those pale salamander lizards?, just like that.
We looked at each other for a moment, without moving. I was
scared with that thing there. I=92m not shamed to admit it, and I
tried to start the byke to get away. As I moved, that thing
jumped and dissapeared under the water in the canal. I saw it=92s
feet as they dissapeared under the water lilies there. The byke
started and I fled. I got home, and nervously explained what I
had seen. My friends and relatives wouldn=92t believe me, but they
went to the place with me to see. Seeing the trail of crushed
water lilies there they believed me, and they were scared.=94

According to Ulises the creature was identical to the ones
already described in the previous encounters. =93What impressed me
the most was it=92s big head and those huge black eyes it had=94, he
stated. As in the other cases, there=92s a connection to the Laguna
Cartagena, because the irrigation canal in wich Ulises saw the
creature connects eventually to the laguna.

All these cases seem to imply that these type of beings have
possibly stablished their habitat deep under the Laguna Cartagena
and other bodies of water in the region. It has been stated
before by other investigators that this type of creaturess
species may be amphibian in nature, due to the webbing described
regularly between their fingers by many witnesses.


An old man=92s encounter with several =93Grays=94

Another such encounter case in the Sierra Bermeja or next to the
laguna is that of Mr. Eleuterio Acosta, a very serious 80 years
old man who lives in the Olivares sector, just in front of the
radar blimp facilities, who confronted five of these small gray
creatures at his home. Eleuterio, grabbing a heavy stick
threatened to strike at them with it while yelling at them to get
out from his house. At that moment he became aware of another
taller but similar type of being that said something in a fast
jargon to the others. Then the small ones ran towards the
venetian blinds window outside of wich was standing the taller
one, and incredibly changed their shape, going out through the
window thru the blinds! Then all six of the creatures fled,
running very fast up into the Sierra Bermeja mountains, at the
back of his home.


An abduction prevented?

There is also Mrs. Albita Acosta=92s encounter case. Albita, also a
resident in the Olivares sector, and who is also a witness to
many of the UFOs seen next to the radar blimp, fought off and
prevented an apparent intended abduction on her by this type of
creatures in May,1991.


Aliens in the aerostat's anchoring platform

Also, there is the encounter some policemen who guard the place
had with several of these creatures in the radar blimp [aerostat]
facilities, in the blimp=92s anchoring sectio, after it was built.
It happened one night of April,1990. One of the policemen noticed
from a distance that there seemed to be some children playing in
the concrete platform for the anchoring of the blimp.  He
approached the site in his patrol car and turned on his car's
spotlight, only to see that instead of children the ones there
were really several strange creatures described by him as 3 to 4
ft. tall, big headed and grayish in color. The small beings fled
running in different directions and the policeman called by radio
asking for back up, repeating the 1050 code. When help arrived
the creatures had dissapeared.An extensive search was made, but
to no avail. We were able to interview confidentially one of the
policemen involved with the incident, who verified the details
reported here.

Some days later, another group of policemen there saw a toplike
flying saucer with a golden aura around it that almost landed in
the aerostat's premises. The next day another of the mysterious
circles appeared in the ground right where the UFO was sighted.
The circle was "erased" from the ground when orders were given to
use a bulldozer and remove the ground.

But there are more important accounts that seem to give us an
answer on the reason for what=92s going on in this area. One of
such is the following one.


=93They took me to their base...=94

Mr. Carlos Manuel Mercado, also already mentioned, and one of the
many witnesses who saw the two U.S. jetfighters abduction in mid
air over the Laguna Cartagena by a huge triangular UFO in Dec.,
1988, and whom we have come to know very well and to respect as a
serious and honest man, revealed during our interview to him that
something shocking had happened to him one night six months
before the jets incident he witnessed. This other experience
happened in June 1988:

=93I was trying to get some sleep that night, but it was so hot
that I just couldn=92t do it. My family was asleep. I got up and
lied down on the sofa in the family room, trying to get some
fresh there, but to no avail. I just couldn=92t sleep. As I was
there, I suddenly saw a flash of light outside and heard a
buzzing sound. Some moments later someone knocked three times on
the venetian blinds windows in front of me. The upper half of the
windows were open, but the lower half were closed. I got up and
opened the window... and there they were! Three small men looking
at me...but they weren=92t human. I was surprised, but a voice told
me in my mind 'Do not to be scared, everything is fine. Nothing
is going to happen to you. Do not be scared. We want to show you
something.' At first I was surprised, but when I heard the voice
I felt calm, very calm. They asked me to come out, but not with
their mouths, they never opened their mouths, it was in my mind.
I opened the door... I felt I had to do it, somehow I knew that
they wouldn=92t harm me.=94

According to Manuel, the little men were almost four ft. tall in
size, with big pear shaped heads, pale gray skin and big black
slanted eyes with no pupils. The beings had no ears and a small
slit for a mouth [see drawings by Mercado]. They only had two
small nostrils for a nose. Another thing; these beings had like
small bumps in the skin of their faces... =93Like acne? Something
like that,=94 he said.

According to him the beings were humanoid in shape, but their
arms were a little longer than in humans. All three of them were
dressed in tightfitting sandy colored one piece outfits, =93 like
mechanics=94, he said, =93and only their hands and heads were outside
the suits. Two of them took me by my hands and down the road to
the front of my home [in front of the Sierra Bermeja] I... I
couldn=92t believe it... There was a flying saucer there! It was
standing on three metallic legs that came down from it=92s
underside. It was round, with a dome on top of it with windows,
and many colored lights all around it by the rim. You know the
shape of the water hydrants? That=92s the shape that thing had [see
drawing by Mercado]!  There was an opening on it=92s underside, a
hatch, from wich a long stair came down to the ground. They asked
me to climb up the stair and we boarded the craft...because that
was a craft... There were more of those little men there, and the
place was full of machines with many colored lights and panels.
That was in the many windows area, like a cockpit in the dome.
The little men introduced me to a taller being that was about my
size [5=929"].

I felt more comfortable with this one because, even being like
the others, because he was taller and looked a little more
humanlike, less ordinary. This one was dressed with a white robe
and they said that he was their captain-medic.

=93This taller being explained they meant not harm to me, that they
only wanted to show and tell me something so I could later relate
it to other people. He said something to the others in the panels
and I felt the legs coming up and a clamping sound, the hatch
closed and the craft began moving. I was impressed, but not
afraid. They kept me calm somehow. The craft shot up, and I
believed we would go far away, but instead of that the craft
veered to the left and fell toward the Sierra Bermeja. I was
afraid we=92d crash, but a hole appeared in a depression to the
side of =91El Cay=FAl=92 mountain and the craft went all the way down
it thru a tunnel and came out down a big place that seemed to be
underground, like a very big and long cavern! There were many
barracks-like structures, buildings inside that place, and
hundreds, many of the little aliens there working as in
production lines assembling electronics or mechanical parts,
machinery...

=93There were many crafts down there, but not like airplanes or
helicopters, no, no ... All the crafts there were saucer shaped
or like triangles or hexagonals...

=93The tall being explained: =93As you can see, we have a base here
for the maintenance of our craft=92s systems, we have been here for
a long time and we don=92t intend to leave. We want the earth
people to know that we mean no harm, that we don=92t mean to
conquer you either. We want to reach out to you and stablish a
direct relationship with you that will be beneficial to both
parties. Earth people can rest assured that we don=92t mean any
harm in any way.=94

=93I said: 'why me, I=92m a simple man, nobody would believe me', and
he said =93It doesn=92t matter. People will hear you, as well as many
others we are contacting and bringing here to see the same. When
people with knowledge hear what you simple people, as you call
yourself, are saying, they=92ll know you are telling the truth.=94
=93After that they brought me back home, and before leaving they
told me that they=92d come back someday. At first I was afraid to
talk about this. I was afraid no one would believe me, even
you... I only talked to my family about it. But when this thing
of the jets happened, I worried. Maybe this has to do with the
beings down there, and I know, I felt, that they are good,
harmless. I feel they mean us no harm, and knowing all this might
be important I decided to talk and let you know what had
happened,=94 Mercado finally said.

We know another man, a high ranking military officer in the west
area of Puerto Rico, who was supposedly abducted and taken to
this same underground ufo base by this same type of aliens.
Therefore, we can=92t reveal his name here, to prevent any
harassment to him, but everything he says complies with the
details given to Mr. Carlos Manuel Mercado, specially the place
where the mountain slope opens down to the purported alien base,
El Cay=FAl mountain.

There=92s also a woman who resides in Lajas and works with the
Lajas municipal goverment who was abducted by these same type of
=93gray=94 aliens.

According to her she was examined by them and taken to an
underground base under the Sierra Bermeja, pinpointing the same
location for the =91entrance=92 in =91El Cay=FAl=92 mountain. All these are=

independent witnesse who do not know each other, but have given
the same type of details pertaining to the base and to the
=91entrance=92.


Laguna Cartagena... Is there really an alien base there?

As we can see, there=92s enough circumstancial evidence to suggest
that something strange and very important pertaining to the UFOs
is going on in the southwest of Puerto Rico, specially in the
Lajas-Cabo Rojo area. As more incidents happen, more the people
there believe there=92s a ufo base in the area. Recently, a source
gave us and other puertorrican investigators a sketch on what he
purports is a joint U.S. / Alien ufo base under the Sierra
Bermeja - Laguna Cartagena area he had access to.

Another source, a man we consider very serious and responsible,
told us how he accidentally gained access, together with a
fisherman friend from La Parguera whose last name was Vega, to
this supposed facility through an apparently concealed
ventilation shaft located near the premises. Our witness, whose
name we can=92t reveal for security reasons that will be logical to
the readers after reading a little further in this article,
explained that there really are aliens down there and that they
had also seen U.S. military soldiers down there. Scared, they
fled the place worried about having seen something maybe they
shouldn=92t have.

Our source returned to the site some days later and found the
alleged opening sealed with a heavy concrete slab. Some days
later his friend, the fisherman, was found dead hanging from a
small nail imbedded in the wall of his home in La Parguera.
According to the authorities he hung himself from the nail with
one of his shoe laces. The strange thing was that his hands were
free and the nail from wich he supposedly hung himself was very
low over his head. Also, no one could explain how such a small
nail could hold his weight. We investigated this and the dead
man=92s brother, fisherman V=EDctor =93Lindo=94 Vega, who works in La
Parguera and who we knew already as a witness to other ufo
incidents there, explained that no one in the family could
understand his brother=92s death: =93 My brother didn=92t drink any
alcohol until after having seen whatever he saw down there in the
mangroves and the aerostat, nor used any drugs, he wasn=92t
depressed and didn=92t have any emotional or sentimen-tal problems,
and he was in good health. So, why do this? I don=92t know, but
something isn=92t clear in all this=94, =91Lindo=92 said.

In the last months of the year 1992 a strong disinformation
program was set forth by Mr. An=EDbal Roman, the director of the
Mayaguez area Civil Defense Agency office and police Lieutenant
Rodr=EDguez, from the Lajas police headquarters, using all the
puertorican TV, radio and press media in order to show as lies
and fabrications the reports by the witnesses and in-vestigators
about the UFOs and aliens seen in the area and ridicule the
situation, this together with officers from the U.S. Wildlife and
Fishing Service, such as Mr. Fred Schaffner.

As this was being done by Rom=E1n, his supervisor, Colonel Jos=E9 A.
M. Nolla, Director of the Puerto Rico Civil Defense State Agency,
sent an internal directive order to all the regional offices in
P.R. stating the guidelines for a secret investigation on the ufo
situation in the island by the Civil Defense Agency and stating
in the memo that the situation pertaining to the UFOs and USOs
sightings in Puerto Rico was real and important. Copy of that
directive was given to us by a source within the Civil Defense
Agency. The source explained the findings, even after stating
they were the responsibility of the agency, were really for
analysis by the U.S. Defense Department. and the U.S. Air Force.
In that way, this military agencies would not be seen as
officially involved with the UFO investigation.

Also, recently, Colonel Nolla, who used to be the liaison officer
of the puerto rican U.S. Army Reserve and National Guard with the
Defense Intelligence Agency [DIA], similar to the CIA in U.S.
military, stated under oath in a hearing at the Sena-te of P.R.
that the military and the Civil Defense Agency had been
investigating the many UFO sightings and cattle mutilations that
had been happening in Puerto Rico since year 1975.


The disinformation program is exposed

By those same days, Mr. Freddie Cruz, Director of the Civil
Defense Agency of Lajas, exposed this disinformation program by
RomAn and RodrIguez in an interview we made to him on an
important UFO incident he and several other people witnessed on
the afternoon of tuesday, April 28, 1992, when they all saw a
jetfighter chasing a flying saucer in the area.

=93It happened at 5:00 P.M., - he said-, ...I was repairing my
truck here and we heard a jet flying low. One of the kids said
=93Hey!, look at that thing! We all looked up and saw a thing like
a flying saucer being chased by a military jet (we showed all the
witnesses several military jet aircraft photographs, and
according to all of them it was an f-14 Tomcat.) The saucer was
metallic, silvery, very polished, and it was as if playing with
the jet.

=93It was a little bigger than the jet, not much [it must have been
about 70 ft. in diameter]. It would stop in the air suddenly and
as the jet was about to catch on with it, it would move ahead
very fast, stopping farther away. The saucer was just that, a
flying saucer, like two flattened dishes joined by the rims, and
it had a dome on top. At the last moment, as the jet was again
about to reach it, the saucer split in half! The upper part
became apart from the lower part and then each part or section
flew away, one to the southwest and the other to the east. The
jet remained there circling the area as if not knowing what to
do, and then flew away to the east.=94

Cruz stated: =93This convinced me I should say what I knew on the
situation. It=92s unfair to continue the disinformation by Roman
and the others. Currently, there=92s a secret investigation being
made by the Civil Defense Agency of Puerto Rico. And I know
everything is true, because I=92ve seen the ufos myself.=94

At this point Cruz revealed to us other important events he had
witnessed, together with several other peolple. =93Last November
[1991], the police received a tip about an expected arrival of
illegal aliens in boats coming from the Dominican Republic in =91El
Papayo=92 beach sector, located between La Parguera, Lajas, and
Gu=E1nica, a little more to the east. While there, at 9:00 p.m., we
saw a big bright star in the sky. Suddenly the star began coming
down very fast, and it was a huge thing! ...A UFO, a flying
saucer the size of a stadium! It was very bright, with colored
lights all around it.

=93It remained there motionless at about 25 ft. from the sea
surface. It was big, real big, and remained there for about half
an hour. Then, it flew upwards very fast and dissapeared in the
sky. That really shook us up. I=92ll be honest, when that thing
came down I crawled down under my truck and remained there until
it left.

=93Also, Martin, we have surveilled the Laguna Cartagena and have
seen brightly colored ovoid and round objects as they overfly the
place doing closed angle turns... and sometimes they enter it and
dissapear underwater! The UFOs are there, they really are! So,
that=92s why I can=92t remain silent while Roman and the others
ridicule and make fun of the people who have seen this things
here! It=92s not fair. Our people say what they=92ve seen because
they know that whatever is going on here is important. I know
most of these people and they are serious, honest and decent
people, and they deserve some respect.=94

Finally, Mr. Cruz stated that: =93There are UFOs in the Laguna
Cartagena, and something weird is going on in the aerostat radar
facilities! If not, why does NASA white trucks have to enter the
aerostat premises at about 2:00 a.m. in the morning, escorted by
military omni [hummers] jeep vehicles, at a time whem no one sees
them? Why do this in such a concealed way? What does NASA has to
do with the anti-drug war? Nothing that we know of. To me there=92s
an alien base around here and the authorities know about it or
something, and they don=92t want anyone else to get into the
matter.=94

As a matter of fact, a high ranking police officer from the zone,
explained confidentially to us that when the policemen who were
selected the security at the entrance of the road to the aerostat
installation were debriefed, this was done by american federal
agents [supposedly from the FBI], and he, as well as the
policemen, were all surprised by the many UFO and alien related
questions they made to them. They would ask some things
pertaining to the policemen=92s experience and personal questions,
but all of a sudden they=92d change their line of questioning to
such as the following: Have you seen UFOs or flying saucers? Have
you been contacted by aliens? Do you believe in UFOs? Has anyone
in your family had a UFO experience?  From time to time this type
of questioning would come out in their interviews and
debriefings, while also using a polygraph or lie detector on the
policemen during the questioning sessions.

As we said before, all this is circumstancial evidence, but
circumstancial evidence that when analyzed together and
logically, strongly suggests the posibility of there really being
an alien base in the zone. The mentioned facts are but a small
percentage of the many UFO / alien related incidents there. For
us to report on all the information on the situation would
require an entire book, but for the interested reader this report
will give a general idea of the importance of what is currently
happening in the southwest region of Puerto Rico.

But let's see some other cases from other regions of Puerto Rico.


UFO chase in =93El Yunque=94

This incident happened on July 4, 1989, and several witnesses who
live in the Sabana / Yuquiy=FA sector of the town of Luquillo, an
area next to the National Caribbean Rain Forest, in the east of
the island, were able to see when a UFO described as =93...a bright
starlike oval object=94 was chased by two jetfighters that were
scrambled from the Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, in Ceiba, next
to the area.

According to Mrs. Rosa D=E1vila de Qui=F1ones, resident in the Sabana
sector [the only witness willing to be identified for the
report], that night there was an electrical power blackout in the
area and she was talking about it with her neighbors when they
all saw at about 8:30 P.M. the ufo flying over the National
Caribbean Rain Forest and the El Yunque mountain [famous for the
many UFO sightings and incidents that have occurred there].
According to them the UFO was very bright and had an oval shape.
=93At first it looked like a very big and brilliant white-blue
star, but then it began moving fast and doing several high speed
angle turns and that=92s when we all realized it was something
strange, something not normal=94, said Mrs. D=E1vila.

She continued explaining that after several passes and turns over
the mountains there in the rain forest, the UFO began descending,
heading directly in a 45 degrees angle toward El Yunque mountain,
and then, they all saw two jetfighters approaching the area from
the east, heading towards the UFO. All witnesses were sure that
the jetfighters had been sent from the Roosevelt Roads Naval
Station, and saw them closing in on the luminous object. At that
moment the UFO changed course at high speed and lit up more
brightly with a white light, dissapearing in the sky over the
Pitahaya Mountains, to the southeast of the Luquillo Mountain
range, still being chased by the jetfighters. All the neighbors
were astonished as to what they had seen.

Coincidentally, I was in the El Yunque sector that same day
checking on other things reported to me pertaining to UFOs there,
and because of that I=92m a witness to the electrical power failure
in Rio Grande and Luquillo, but unfortunately, I left the place
at 7:30 P.M. and missed the UFO / jet fighters incident,
otherwise I would have been able to videotape it with my video
camera.


=93Ball of light=94 in Guavate

On Friday, June 22, 1990, Mr. Jos=E9 Antonio Vald=E9s, his wife
Matilde and a military officer friend of theirs who was visiting
them at their home, were all witnesses to another startling ufo
encounter.

That evening, at 6:30 P.M., the two men were making some repairs
at Vald=E9s=92s wooden house in the =93Los Pi=F1eros=94 sector, in Guavate,=

Cayey, this in the eastern-central part of the island of Puerto
Rico [see map], when all of a sudden they saw a big strange
strange =93ball of light=94 fly over Vald=E9s=92s house at great speed.
The =93ball=94 was described by them as =93a round ball of bright
yellow light with a very bright red light in its center.=94 No more
details could be observed on the UFO by them. According to the
witnesses the =93ball of light=94 was flying horizontally =93on a
northeast to southwest trajectory=94, and as soon as it had passed
over them, =93four military jets appeared as if trailing or chasing
it at great speed.=94

The jets were described as of =93... a strange blueish-gray
metallic color, with two booster engines and all of them had
their wings positioned backwards and flew very fast=94.  This
description fits with that of U. S. Navy F-14 Tomcat jetfighters.
=93The jets were flying very low over the area and circling in the
sky- according to the witnesses - as if searching for something,
then they left in the same direction the ball of light took, to
the southwest, and dissapeared.=94 The apparent size of the ufo was
estimated as three times the size of the jets they all saw. So,
if the F-14=92s are about some 62 ft.  long, then the UFO=92s size
must have been at about 180 ft.
aproximately.

=93Only five or six minutes had elapsed after the jets flew over
the area when we all saw a big jet with a round flattened thing
on top fly over the sector and in the same direction the ufo and
the jetfighters had previously taken,=94 said Vald=E9s. According to
the military officer there, wich we interviewed on the incident,
that last big jet was an AWAC radar jet, and he, as well as the
other witnesses were sure that the UFO was being chased by both
the jetfighters and the AWAC jet, all of them coming surely from
the east, from the Roosevelt Roads Naval Station. The officer
stated being sure that what he saw was a pursuit and search
operation by the jetfighters and the AWAC jet.

=93I come frequently to this area, and this is not the first time I
see UFOs here. On many ocassions you can see this objects flying
around and suddenly they descend into certain mountain areas and
dissapear there. To me these military aircraft, spe-cially the
AWAC, was trying to locate the place this objects possibly go
into in this area. Maybe they go underground here someplace, and
that=92s what they are checking out,=94 said the officer.

The UFO they all observed was totally soundless and very bright.
Similar UFOs have been observed in the Guavate region frequently,
and I=92ve investigated a number of the sightings reported. We have
the officer=92s name and address, but he asked us not to disclose
his name or rank because of fear of possible harassment due to
his position. For those interested, we have several witnesses of
our interview with him on this incident willing to come forward
and verify what he said to us, should there be any need to do so.


=93Playful=94 UFO

On June 28, 1990, Mr. Jose Rodr=EDguez, resident in the sector of
Barrio Playita, in Yabucoa, east of the island, also near to the
Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, saw another surprising chasing of
a UFO by U.S. jetfighters. =93The UFO played with the jets,
outdodging them at great speed for a couple of minutes, and then
flew off very fast and dissapeared to the southwest, still being
followed by the jets from a distance=94, he said during an
interview.


Encounter next to a Navy Communications Base in Juana Diaz

The following account was given to us by a confidential source, a
military officer stationed at the U.S. Army Reserve and
Communications Base of Fort Allen, in Juana D=EDaz, Puerto Rico, in
the south. It had to do with yet another UFO/jetfighters
encounter. After agreeing not to disclose his name or rank he
explained what happened in that base in the night of July 18,
1990, at 12:10 A.M.

According to the officer, that night the soldiers and officers at
the base were all in their barracks, except for those involved
with their duties, when suddenly the base perimeter became lit
with a powerful white light. Our source explained that at that
very moment a high ranking officer gave the order through the
base intercome system for =93...everyone to stay indoors and not to
come out of the barracks or any other base facilities under any
circumstances.=94

The light was very bright, but when the order was given he was
already looking out trough a window. What he saw gave him a
shock.

=93In an area to the coast, just over the base and a little to the
south there was a brightly lit disclike object. It was circular
and metallic looking...as if it was made of aluminum -he stated-
and it had what seemed like many windows on its center edge with
yellowish-white lights revolving in them. At the underside of the
object there was a round turbine like protrusion with many
colored lights revolving around it (see drawing by officer), and
from underneath the object a very bright beam of white-pinkish
light was issuing, going downwards as if searching for something.
That same light was the one illuminating the base perimeter.=94

He stood there for a moment, not believing his own eyes, he
explained, when all of a sudden =93...I heard the loud sound of jet
engines and two jets flew at great speed over the base. To me [a
man with military aircraft knowledge] the jets were of the F-18
type, and were scrambled from somewhere to check on the ufo next
to the base. As soon as the jets appeared and went into the UFO=92s
direction, the object departed at great speed to the west with
the sound of rushing wind, being followed by the jets. Those jets
must have been scrambled from the Roosevelt Roads Naval Station,
because for all I know, there are no F-18s in the Muniz National
Guard Air base in Isla Verde. By the way, those F-18s must be
from a carrier participating in the UNITAS military exercises
being done in Roosevelt Roads and Vieques island, because
regularly, there are no F-18s in Puerto Rico.=93

What he said next surprised me: =93Something big is happening here
with all this ufo activity. Recently, all the military personnel
in Fort Allen was shown several videos in wich we were informed
on the reality of UFOs. They showed an old black and white movie
about a UFO crash that supposedly happened in New Mexico many
years ago, and we all saw the craft, that was semi-buried in the
ground in a 45 degrees angle, and there were several bodies of
the UFO=92s crew. According to what they showed to us these beings
were about 5 ft. tall, thin, very pale and had big bald heads.
They had big round eyes and a small nose, but I don=92t recall any
mouths nor ears.

"They also showed us another video of UFOs allegedly filmed by
them around the island. They wanted us to know that UFOs are
real, but they wouldn=92t elaborate when asked about more details.
You know; to me what they wanted [the officers briefing them on
the ufos] was for us to know this was real and that this beings
are not perfect, that they are fallible, that their crafts do
crash and they also die, that they are not invulnerable.
Apparently they wanted to condition us to the idea that they
exist and to accept the possibility of someday having to
intervene with them. The officers wouldn=92t say that these were
alien crafts or anything like that, just that they were real and
that the government is keeping a close eye on them. Finally; they
told us that they are expecting something big, they wouldn=92t
explain what, but it had to do with this, and that if that
happened we would have to deal with the situation and with the
people, the public", said the officer.

This confidential report was later confirmed by two other
independent military sources that approached us in the UFO Photo
Exhibit we shared with Mr. John Timmerman, from CUFOS, in Plaza
Las Am=E9ricas Shopping Mall, in San Juan, Puerto Rico, in the week
of August 13 -18,1990. They stated that special military groups
in the island have been receiving official briefings on the UFO
situation since 1988, the year in which the jetfighters were
abducted by the huge triangular shaped ufo in Cabo Rojo and San
Germ=E1n.


UFO chased by helicopters in Caguas


At 5:30 P.M. of December 19, 1990, Mr. Mario Orlando Rodr=EDguez,
resident in the Bairoa Park urban development, in Caguas, to the
center-east of Puerto Rico, saw something that he=92ll never
forget. According to his report, on that afternoon he was working
at home in his studio [he is a free lance graphic commercial
artist] when he heard the sound of helicopter engines flying very
low over the his house. Curious, he went outside to see what was
going on, and to his surprise and ama-zement he witnessed
something he never expected to see:

=93When I came out I saw military dark green helicopters with no
markings, numbers or I.D.s flying very low over the houses. They
seemed like the ordinary choppers used by the P.R. National Air
Guard. One of them had an opening on it=92s side and there was a
man clinging out tied up or strapped with some type of belt. The
man was shouting something that I couldn=92t hear because of the
helicopters engines, and he was pointing in a specific direction.
When I looked in that direction there was a weird thing there...
It was something like a big ball, like a big pearl with a
yellowish aura surrounding it, and in the center, in the
interior, there was like a reddish light [see drawing by
Rodr=EDguez]. It was a UFO, there=92s no doubt in my mind about it.
The UFO was flying in a southeast to northwest trajectory and the
helicopters were chasing it.=94

We asked Rodr=EDguez if he could say anything on the UFO=92s
dimensions and he replied that: =93That thing was as big as a jumbo
747 airliner compared to the helicopters. And the strangest thing
was that it was flying totally noiselessly. No noise at all.=94

Zah=EDra Milagros Larregoity, a 13 year old girl, another witness
to the incident, explained that =93I was coming to Mario=92s house to
ask for some ice, and suddenly I saw this big ball of yellow
light flying overhead noiselessly and it flew over the mountain
and dissapeared, then I saw that there were some helicopters
chasing it in the same direction. It was a very beautiful light.
Something nice to see.=94

The mountain over wich this happened is north to the Bairoa Park
and Mirador Bairoa urban developments area, and in previous
ocassions other ufos have been sighted over that same mountain.
On one ocassion I myself was witness to one such sighting in
November, 1981.

The helicopters involved must have been either from the P.R.
National Air Guard or from Roosevelt Roads, but neither of them
would aknowledge such an incident or their participation in the
chase. An interesting detail is that the object seen by Rodr=EDguez
is similar to the one seen by Jos=E9 Antonio Vald=E9s, his wife
Matilde and the military officer in Guavate, Cayey, some months
before.


=93Electrical UFO=94 in Carra=EDzo

For readers to have a further idea on the importance of the type
of incidents happening in Puerto Rico, we'll elaborate here on a
shocking incident that happened in March,1991, in the town of
Trujillo Alto.

It was the night of sunday March 17, 1991. Everything was quiet
and normal in the Carra=EDzo sector of the town of Trujillo Alto.
But just after midnight there was a sudden explosion of lights,
colors and a strange strong sound.

For many miles around, the night darkness became lit and very
bright with a light of incredible proportions. At the distance,
it could be seen how the night sky had acquired an intense
turquoise-blueish color, and at the same time the electrical
power failed in several sectors miles away from the place. At
once everything was iluminated in a very bright greenish light
that at once changed to orange light. Adding a spectacular touch
to this all, a bright white ray of light could be seen projecting
itself up into he sky, moving from left to right and vice versa,
in a fanlike motion and with uniformity. This was seen by
thousands of witnesses for miles around Trujillo Alto. However,
those nearer to the area, and those in high places in the sectors
of Rio Piedras, Carolina and Trujillo Alto, saw something even
more spectacular.

Directly over an electrical power substation located just behind
the El Conquistador urban development, in Carra=EDzo sector, was an
inmense circular UFO, motionless in mid air and radiating an
intense amount of light. Many residents of El Conquistador could
see how the sub station electrical energy was being atracted by
the strange craft above it. Something like an energy curtain was
seen around the sub station, and in that =93curtain=94 you could see
the electrical energy flowing into the underside of the huge
object. It just took some moments for people to congregate in the
surroundings of the electrical substation, while many others
called to the police or radio stations to report what was
happening or asking for information on the phenomenon they were
seeing.

One of those present there, Mr. Josue Marrero, described
everything as something out from a Steven Spielberg film: =93That
was huge. And the light was as intense as sunlight. It was as if
night had suddenly become day. And the electrical energy was
going up in a wall of sparks and electrical discharges going
upwards. I=92ve never before seen anything like that! I even had to
take my eyes away from it, the light was too bright and hurt
them.=94

Mr. Jos=E9 Miranda, another witness that lives in Diego Vel=E1zquez
Avenue, in El Conquistador, stated that: =93What I saw when I
looked through the back window after the bright light engulfed it
all, was something of wich I could only see about a fourth of its
size and shape. It was motionless there in the sky and to me it
was something round, some strange type of craft with a shiny
nickel like metallic round edge and at the underside, that is the
side I could see most of, following that edge was a thin line of
fosforescent green light and next to that one more to the center
there was another one of blue-violet fosforescent light and at
its center that very powerful bright white light, like soldering
light [see drawing by witness]. I saw that and electrical rays,
discharges going up, in colors, something like that. All this
area was as if in daylight, and the light changed from green to
blue to orange...like that. I saw it up there for about 30
seconds...and when the electrical power failed completely that
thing shot away to the north at great speed. I ran to the front
window to see and it was already gone.

=93My wife, who had seen part of what happened, was screaming in
her bed due to the impression it made on her, because we had
never seen a craft as big as that one so close and hanging there
over our houses. That thing easily would cover most of these area
because it was so big...It was enormous, huge. It was nothing
like an airplane or anything like that. To me what I saw was an
alien craft, something not normal...something not from this
planet.=94

His neighbor, Mr. Rafael Ben=EDtez, a professional psychologist we
know personally, added on what he saw: =93When I looked out the
rear window, because everything was as if in daylight and the
electrical power was gone, I saw something with three very big
bright light sources in it=92s center under it. I also saw like a
wall of electrical rays going upwards, like thousands of minute
electrical capillaries, thin electrical discharges going up, and
you could hear a chhh, chhh, chhh sound, something like when you
hear the static electricity, something like that.
The wall of electricity was wider on it=92s base and as it went up
to that thing in the air it became thinner. Around that thing
there was something like a cloud surrounding it.

=93That thing I saw was not anything I know from earthly
technology. The lights were so intense...like spotlights shining
downwards, but really intense, blinding. To me what I saw was an
alien craft that visited us, absorved the station=92s electrical
energy, they charged whatever they wanted to recharge in their
ship, maybe they had energy problems, and they left.=94

Danny Rodr=EDguez, a young man who lives next to the substation,
also saw the incredible light effects there when the systems blew
up, but unfortunenately he did not look up above his house, not
seeing the objects many others saw there. But he remembers
clearly that after the incident ended, he could see for several
minutes a strange green fosforescent beam of light that was
coming down from the sky in a 45 degrees angle towards the
substation. The light beam was coming from the northwest. =93It was
like a powerful flashlight beam of light coming from the sky, and
it stood there for some minutes. Something unnatural happened
here,=94 he said.

Mr. Genaro Bigas, also a neighbor who resides in the Diego
Vel=E1zquez Avenue, explained that when he went to his balcony to
see what was happening, he saw, over his ceiling something
extending over it =93...something like a huge semicircle of about
180 degrees. It was standing there in the air over our houses. At
the moment I saw it it was rather dark at the underside and it
was flashing bright orange lights from it=92s sides all around it.
That was the source of the light that was illuminating everything
here. That was something solid upthere, because you could see on
it=92s rim some orange lights, and then above it you could see the
clouds and the sky, but from the rim inwards you could see a
solid dark surface. Then, after that some very bright white
lights appeared there at it=92s underside in the center of it [see
drawing by witness].

=93What I saw is compatible with what is called traditionally a
flying saucer. It was huge, real big, as big as most of this
urban residential area, but it was up there, motionless. How
could that be, that thing up there just standing there in the
air? It must have been very heavy... It was just incredible, but
we all saw it. Another thing is that whilr that thing was up
there, you could feel like a heat sensation, when it left the
area we all felt a refreshing gust of wind at the same moment.

=93I=92m sorry I didn=92t come out completely, to have a better look at
it, but maybe it was our protection instinct that prevented me
from doing so. This I can tell, if it was something alien it
wasn=92t hostile, because it didn=92t harm us, except for the
damages to the substation.=94

Mrs. Evelyn Su=E1rez, resident in Colinas de Fairview, also in
Trujillo Alto, but some 3 miles away from where the incident
occurred, was able to see the object suspended over El
Conquistador sector: =93What I saw was huge, enormous. It was round
and its outer metal looked like copper, with an orange luminosity
all around it. If you saw the movie Starman, the UFO in it was
something like a huge globe of red-orange light with many lights,
it was something just like that. It also had green, and other
colored lights around it. And I=92m sure there were other smaller
luminous objects all around it, close to it. Oh!, that was a hell
of a craft, that is the best way to describe it to you. I never
expected to see something like that, never.=94

Jos=E9 and Sonia Adorno, who live on floor 15 of Los Cedros
Condominium, also in Trujillo Alto, about 5 miles away, revealed
they saw it all from their apartment. She commented: =93 It was
about 12:20 A.M., and suddenly everything became very bright.
When we looked out we saw that something very big and round in
the air surrounded by some kind of cloud. There was a bright
yellowish - bluish light going up from the ground to something
like a huge platform that was up in the air over El Conquistador.
It was something round and a little flattened at the top with
yellow- orange light all around it. I was frightened by what I
saw, and my husband said that it was nothing, maybe only a
malfunctioning electrical transformer, but it was not that, it
was something weird. Then that thing flew away to the north and
dissapeared at great speed.

=93It was something huge. I would compare it=92s size with that of
the Trujillo Alto Plaza Shopping Center=92s parking lot, but of
course, that at the distance I was seeing it. That=92s how huge it
was. I had never seen anything like that. Many more people must
have seen it also.=94 Sonia was right, because her neighbor, Mrs.
Rosa Flores, saw it too.

Ramses D=EDaz, a youngster who lives in the Ciudad Universitaria
urbanization, in the outskirts of Trujillo Alto, also saw it
together with his brother: =93It was luminous - he said - ,
something huge in a cloud, real big. A big ball of orange light
with many smaller lights on it. I called the National Weather
Service in Isla Verde, and their forecaster told me there was no
electric storm that night and that they couldn=92t explain what the
people were describing and was happening. After it happened, I
contacted CUFOS , in Illinois, U.S.A., and talked with Mr.
John Timmerman, who sent me some report forms for me to fill and
specify the details of what I saw. He said that if what I was
describing was accurate, what we saw was a UFO.=94

Mr. Sergio Serrano saw it all from the gas service station he
works at in De Diego street, in Sabana Llana, Rio Piedras. =93I saw
that thing as it flew over us going to Trujillo Alto. It was
coming from the El Yunque sector.=94 The witness described the
object similar to the other witnesses.

Many residents of the Covadonga Residential area, in Trujillo
Alto, among them Miss Elizabeth Torres, also saw the incredible
sight. =93It was beautiful! - she said - It was a big flying
saucer. When everything became illuminated we came out to see and
we saw that big thing there in the air standing motionless over
the mountains, over Carra=EDzo. It was a saucer, very big, with
orange light and smaller lights changing colors all around it.
Beautiful! All this place was full of people seeing that thing
there.=94

Mr. Luis Rodr=EDguez, a security guard that patrols the premises of
a company in Carolina, next to the Travenol company, stated he
saw the object as it was flying over very fast to the west,
towards Trujillo Alto.

He stated that it was huge, like an orange ball of light mith
many smaller colored lights on it, and that it seemed to come
from the west. =93That thing came from El Yunque. It was inmense. I
still get nervous when I think on what I saw=92=94, he explained.

Mr. Enzo Rizzo, who lives in the Los Olmos Condominium, in Rio
Piedras, some 6 miles away from Carra=EDzo, reported having seen
the incident too, observing =93...the object and it=92s great
luminosity, as well as a series of very potent and bright beams
of white light coming out from the top of it and projecting
themselves up into space while moving in a fanlike motion.=94
Rizzo, an italian who had come to Puerto Rico by those same days,
said he had never before in his life seen anything like what he
saw in the night of Sunday 17, March,1991. =93It was an incredible
sight, something out of this world.=94, he said.


Electrical power system repair brigades

The next day, several brigades from the Puerto Rico Authority of
Electrical Energy were repairing tha damages at the substation,
wich amounted to $355,000.00 in losses. Burned out electrical
posts, several high voltage power lines and a number of burned
out transformers were among the equipments damaged. We
interviewed two supervisors and engineers of the Puerto Rico
Energy Authority there on what occurred, Mr. Jos=E9 Luis Garc=EDa and
Mr. Orlando Lozada.

According to Lozada: =93We still can=92t explain what caused all this
damages. There was no reason for this to happen as it did. First,
there was a very powerful short circuit due to an apparent
contact between two high voltage lines that were far enough from
each other to prevent that from happening... but it happened
somehow.=94

Technically, his answer already implied that there was a
mysterious factor involved with whatever happened. But there was
another question; if what happened was a short circuit, as it was
explained officialy, why weren=92t the systems turned off by the
security systems that prevent that from happening, instead of
allowing the electrical energy to continue to flow as it did for
several minutes, increasing the amperage to an astounding level?

To this, engineer Garc=EDa answered that: =93This station has an
automatic system to prevent that. As soon as there is an
overcharge it is supposed to cut off the energy flow. If it fails
to do this, there is an alternate one that cuts off the energy.
However, what happened here was of such a magnitude that neither
emergency system responded. This caused an extreme energy
overcharge, and the energy level went to infinite. That explains
the damages here...=94

Another supervisor there said that: =93What happened just wasn=92t
natural. There is no explanation for how things happened here
last night.=94

After making contact with =93a high positioned supervisor of the
Electrical Power Authority agency he confided to us that =93The
controllers or =93raisers=94 failed to function there, and the type
of failure that happened there is not a common one, even more
there, where the equipment has a good maintenance. We call that
type of discharges =91shootouts=92, and in this case because of the
raisers failing to operate we called it just that, a shootout.
But in Puerto Rico there are many =91shootouts=92 due to unknown and
mysterious causes. Something that could explain this is what an
employee told me pertaining to similar occurrances in Arecibo
[about 40 miles from San Juan]. He explained to that he saw when
a flying saucer came down and began absorving energy from another
substation there in Cruce D=E1vila, in Barceloneta, next to the
Abbot Pharmaceutical Labs. compound, with effects similar to
those seen in Trujillo Alto.=94

Everything indicates that a huge UFO was really observed by
numerous witnesses in Trujillo Alto and neighboring communities,
a ufo that apparently controlled somehow the substation emergency
systems to prevent them from cutting off the energy flow. The
subsequent great energy overcharge was apparently what this
object or craft was looking for, maybe to recharge some internal
systems or for something else we can=92t even imagine at this
moment. The important thing here is that up to this moment more
than a hundred witnesses hof this important sighting have
surfaced already, all of them giving accurate similar
descriptions of the object seen there, witnesses as far as 10
miles apart from each other who don=92t even know each other, and
the National Weather Service confirmed that there was no
electrical storm in the vecinity of Puerto Rico, as explained
officialy by government and the Electrical Energy Authority
officers, trying to cover up the incident.  But to the residents
of El Conquistador and of the Carraizo community one thing is
clear: they are sure that they were visited by an alien craft,
possibly from extraterrestrial origin.


Peripheral phenomena

In adition to the sighting several other phenomenons were
reported:

1- A number of residents in El Conquistador with ceiling fans in
their homes reported that the fan=92s arms were bending upwards
while the ufo was above their homes, as if a strong magnetic
force attracted them.

2- Other witnesses say that their table fans began circling
backwards, returning to normal after the ufo departed.

3- Some witnesses=92s telephone answering machines began working on
their own and releasing their recorded messages.

4- A lady resident in El Conquistador and a relative of witness
Jos=E9 Miranda, who has a metal plate in her head due to a brain
surgery, states that for as long as the ufo was there she felt a
very sharp pain in her head, feeling better when it left the
place.

5- On the next day, after having seen the phenomenon and the ufo
there, a 17 years old girl levitated, floating in her room, this
being seen by her mother.

Another interesting detail was the behavior shown by the animals
in the sector.  Many roosters and dogs owned by neighbors there
wich were known for their noisy behavior remained totally silent
all that night until the next day late. They were silent and
seemed frightened. At least two special radio talk shows were
broadcasted for the people to talk on what they had seen and
experienced. Most of the accounts were similar to those already
presented here.

There are many questions still unanswered about all this
important incidents presented in this report, incidents that are
only a fraction of the plethora on such cases in the island of
Puerto Rico. But without a doubt, this events indicate that the
UFO/alien phenomenon is very close to Puerto Rico=92s everyday
reality.

On the other part,every day we receive more ufo/jetfighters
chasings reports and abductions/encounters with aliens reports by
credible and reliable witnesses from all around the island, just
before finishing this report I received a couple more, but due to
lack of space here I can=92t present them with their details.
Sometimes, due to the amount of ufo activity here, I wonder if
Puerto Rico has been selected as a place where open contact with
an alien species is tested to check on the psychological and
sociological reactions and effects of such a contact. We must
remember here that Puerto Rico is a U.S. colonial territorial
posession and it is very possible that =93someone=94 could have
selected the island for such a test because it is under U.S.
jurisdiction, and that would provide for a close scrutiny by the
government on the developing situation. Many believe in the U.S.
and abroad that there is a secret agreement between the U.S.
goverment and a certain species of aliens, and even tough there=92s
no specific solid proof on that, there=92s a lot of circumstancial
evidence that tends to imply just that.

In most of the incidents described in this report the
relationship between the UFO situation and the U.S. Roosevelt
Roads Naval Station, a principal U.S. military installation in
the east of Puerto Rico is evident. Because of that, and
pertaining to the increasing number of UFO incidents of all types
and the many ufo / jetfighters =93chasings=94 reports, this together
with what some witnesses have seen pertaining to UFOs coming out
of that naval station, I can=92t help but wonder and ask myself:
Are the U.S. jetfighters seen with these UFOs chasing them... or
are they really escorting them?









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                       Skywatch: Filer's Files #6-1998

From: skywatch_ok@msn.com [George A. Filer]
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:43:27 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:03:24 -0500
Subject: Skywatch: Filer's Files #6-1998

        =09
*************************************************************
   Filer's Files #6-1998  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
From George A. Filer:  MUFON Eastern Director,
February 16, 1998;  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020

Evidence of life on Mars would help confirm UFO reports on Earth.

FLORIDA

Last week we ran the account of the three days or sightings over the Gulf
Breeze and Pensacola, Florida area. Anne Morrison's, Elise and Ray Pollock,
reported on their sightings on January 31st. Now Vicki, Pat & Buddy  write: =


Dear fellow UFO friends,  We wanted to share with you some very exciting
sightings which took place in the last few days, as they are so very
significant when you look at the circumstances surrounding them. Life=
 Magazine
was here with their outstanding photographers, along with Whitley Strieber,
who is writing the piece, and the UFO showed up for the photo shoot, and=
 then
the next night as well. Then I also had a spectacular daytime UFO   sighting
that resembles what is being seen in Mexico. It certainly seems   that UFO
activity is picking up around the country, and it certainly has come back to
us in Gulf Breeze!  We are now out at night again checking out the skies=
 with
a vengeance. We are including accounts of several   people describing the
incredible events of the last few days.  Hope you   enjoy, and let us know=
 if
any interesting events are happening in your area, as well.

Thought I would document my records and impressions for the UFO sightings on
Pensacola Beach from 6:29 to 6:37 p.m. on January 30-31, 1998.  We saw a
bright, cherry-red light very similar in appearance to those frequently
sighted around Gulf Breeze in 1991-92 that were known as Bubba. The UFO was
near the water's edge in front of the Dunes Hotel. The UFO traveled in
straight line toward us and appeared to turn  eastward while directly
overhead. The final position of UFO was directly overhead of witnesses, when
it faded out.. The wind was from the southeast almost opposite the flight=
 path
of the UFO.  There was no sound. The UFO was at an estimated altitude of=
 5,000
to 8,000 feet.  I took 12 photographs and got something on 7 of the shots.=
 All
were time exposures using my  2000mm focal length lens, Ektar 100 film, and
tripod-mounted, 35mm Minolta SRT102 camera with pneumatic shutter  release.
Each photo shows a pulsing red line that moved up and out of the camera's
field of view.  I actually had a hard time getting the UFO into view and
keeping it there, while locking in my camera's  tripod; with hindsight, I=
 wish
I had aimed in front of the expected line of travel and just let it pass by.
The pulsing intensity of the UFO was probably in the 10 to 20 pulses per
second range, something which the human  eye can not detect, but the film
record clearly shows.  Witnesses noticed some changes in intensity during=
 the
8 minute sighting, but none observed the rapid pulsing recorded on film. =
 The
light was estimated at 1 to 2  feet in diameter and 1 to 2 miles distance=
 from
camera. Five of the witnesses were being photographed by Life Magazine
photographers, who  had the witnesses pose looking to the sky to the north
exactly where the UFO appeared.  The witnesses strongly felt:   1. That this
UFO appearance was more than just coincidence,  2. That the intelligence
behind this UFO knew where we were and want we were doing, and   3. That it
wanted the UFO to be noticed and reported in an important medium such as=
 Life
Magazine. Thanks to John Thompson, Vicki, Pat & Buddy.
OHIO

In our #4 Files we reported on the Zaneville, Ohio sighting of a large V
shaped UFO on January 29, 1998.  Kenny Young of the UFO Research Group
provides some additional information in answer to questions by Dr. Bruce
Cornet, Keith M. King and Tim Edwards. Could the military be intentionally
dropping flares and flying in a triangular formation in the area when=
 chasing
a reported UFO?  It seems too much of a coincidence that following the 13
March 1997, Phoenix event, the AF in Ohio should drop flares on the same=
 night
that a large triangular-shaped craft was spotted by witnesses: "Although
witnesses described a massive triangular object in Arizona (accompanied by
reports of military jets in action in the vicinity), a duplicate incident in
Ohio on March 26, 1997 of an identical 'triangular ship' was explained as a
flare formation traveling in a triangular arrangement (after being=
 discharged
from over-flying military jets also traveling in a triangular grouping.

Ken Young responds: I'm not sure how confident I am to deal with this
question, aside from just pointing out the similarities apparent in the
description of the object. We have no information to indicate that the=
 recent
sighting in Zanesville, Ohio (January 29, 1998) has any relevance or
relationship to the Phoenix sightings aside from the descriptive reference
given by the witnesses, eluding to a 'triangular definition' of an unknown
aerial object. In the case of the Zanesville sighting, this locality is not
within a MOA (Military Operating Area) and the time of the event was not
within the time frame for flare activities  permissible within MOAs.  We=
 have
no reason to think that flares were involved with the Zanesville, Ohio
sighting in any way. I would not affiliate anything with the Arizona=
 sightings
simply because the 'flare explanation' seriously complicates the Arizona
account and has 'stressed down' the case with allot of 'noise.'  Although
witnesses described a massive triangular object in Arizona (accompanied by
reports of military jets in action in the vicinity), a duplicate incident in
Ohio on March 26, 1997 of an identical 'triangular ship' was explained as a
flare formation traveling in a triangular arrangement (after being =
 discharged
from over-flying military jets also traveling in a triangular grouping).
Videotapes of the Ohio events (one also happening on October 16, 1996) were
made and analyzed, witnesses interviewed, and the Springfield Air National
Guard did openly confess and admit responsibility (right down to a televised
admission on the Cincinnati cable-TV program 'UFO UPDATE: LIVE!.

The appearance of similarity between the Ohio and Arizona videos are
striking, both in appearance (as depicted on the videos) and through witness
description in their testimonies (even down to the massive triangular ship=
 at
treetop level).  The presence of military jets in the area complicate the
matter, and could be said that they are either 'discharging the flares' or
'pursuing the unknowns.' In the Ohio case, several witnesses, to their=
 credit,
observed and acknowledged that the objects were 'coming from the planes.'=
 For
details about the Ohio research, a section of the web-site listed below
contains information on this. There are a number of reports that complicate=
 a
broad 'flare explanation' for all of this, but I think that SOME of the
activity is explainable as such. I have speculated that this could be a
military disinformation project which takes place during a UFO-related=
 event.
The recent event in Zanesville doesn't correspond with the time and=
 localities
of permissible flare exercises, which makes this report all the more
interesting. Sincerely, Kenny Young,UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/task/

TEXAS

On Saturday, January 24, 1998, at 3:20 p.m., D.B. Michael was at his home in
Leander, Texas (population 3,398) when he received a phone call from his
brother, Dave, asking him to hurry outside, "You've got to see this!" =
 Leander
is on Highway 183 about 23 miles north of Austin, the state capital.  "He=
 and
(D.B.'s son) Daniel were in their backyard, which joins mine."  Hurrying
outside, D.B. "observed the object moving in a northerly direction,"
describing the UFO as "a cylinder object that was positioned upright, not
oblong."  The men shot several photos of the UFO with their two 35mm cameras
while "the object stayed vertical without any rotation."  "We followed it on
U.S. Highway 183 heading off at (county highway) 2243 East.  We then=
 traveled
on 2243 East and pulled off the road.  It passed over us...We then commenced
east again intending to go to Interstate Highway 35 and intercept it again."
Just then, "a dark helicopter was observed flying for the south at an=
 altitude
of about 500 feet," he added, "Reaching I-35, we looked about but found
nothing.  We traveled west on Highway 29.  We observed three jet aircraft=
 that
appeared to be in V formation...in a flight that that would have intercepted
the object if it had continued in the direction of travel last seen by us."
(Thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. UFO Roundup 3#6, 2/8/98 Editor: Joseph Trainor=
 .)

MICHIGAN

On Thursday evening, February 5, 1998, around 7:45 p.m. EST, a black=
 triangle
aircraft was spotted west of Howell, Michigan heading west and paralleling
Mason Road at an elevation of 55 to 60 degrees. The observer,  a high school
senior driving in his car at the time, noted that the craft  had three=
 round,
white, non-blinking lights at the three points of the  triangle. He pulled=
 his
car to the side of the road to get a better view,  shut off the engine and
told me that the object was the size of a quarter  held at arm's length. No
detectable noise was heard coming from the craft.  Had it been a=
 conventional
aircraft at that distance, it would have been  easily identified due to the
noise of its engines. He further stated that,  although he made a point of
looking for them, no navigational strobes--red,  green or white--were=
 visible
at any time. He estimated the speed of the  craft to be 60 miles per hour,=
 the
same speed as his car. It was in sight  for over a minute. He also told me
that at no time did his car malfunction. He was unable to estimate its
altitude, however, since nothing presented itself for comparison. Weather
conditions at the time were partially overcast, but the moon was visible. No
missing time was reported. The credibility of the witness is high. Thanks to
Doug Parrish Michigan Director / Skywatch International<dparrish@ismi.net>

CHILE

On January 24th, around 3:30 AM,  Sergio Rojas,  with other four friends=
 went
to the "Tranque Alfalfal" located in "El Cajon del Maipo" a UFO Hot spot, 40
minutes from Santiago.  On the way up to the El Alfafal Dam they saw two=
 balls
of light pass over them at very high speed. A few minutes later they saw a
third UFO traveling at a much slower speed. From a cliff near the dam they
could see a cigar or egg shaped UFO  coming up the river 100 meters below.=
 It
was bright white color and 18 metes 1ong. The light did not reflect on the
nearby rocks. The UFO was flying very fast and near the water. They heard a
very high pitch tone that clogged their ears.  They also felt what they
described as a "strange wind" that was cold and hot at the same time. The
sighting lasted  only 5 to 6 seconds. After this they decided to return=
 home.
On their way down to "San Jose de Maipo" they encountered another UFO that=
 was
floating about 800 meters above them.  They stopped their car and got out.=
 The
UFO looked like the moon, but slightly smaller and it was white colored.=
 After
5 minutes the UFO faded away like a cloud, but it never moved from it's
position.

In early February in the fishing town of "Iloca" (3 hours north of Santiago)
most of the people in the town including the local police witnessed a very
large cylinder shaped UFO. It was hovering over the ocean. It was so big=
 that
the police had to calm down the population, who were also scared.  Thanks=
 to:
Luis Sanchez Chilean Director Skywatch International.

LIFE ON MARS:

Mars has fascinated mankind for centuries, and it is my belief that NASA is
attempting to obtain startling evidence for life on Mars. Our sister planet
created headlines in 1877, when Schiaparelli announced his discovery that a
network of straight lines covered the surface of Mars.  Percival Lowell felt
these lines were canals that represented the work of intelligent beings.
NASA's Global Surveyor satellite now in orbit around Mars on February 2,=
 1998,
proved for first time that there was once a flowing river meandering across
the planet. It's not known when the river went dry, but the dry bed is an
unmistakable river. A second photo also revealed evidence of horizontal=
 layers
on the surface of Mars, that indicates  Mars has something similar to the
Grand Canyon in Arizona.  The Surveyor also proved the existence of a=
 magnetic
field on Mars that is essential for the development and continued existence=
 of
life on Mars. The field shields a planet from fast-moving, electrically
charged particles and cosmic rays from the Sun.

Although, our two most recent probes appear successful, we should remember=
 the
previous three probes of Mars ended in failure. Previously our own Mars
Observer and two Russian Phobos missions mysteriously stopped transmitting
when nearing the planet. The Russian Phobos II mission actually took up=
 orbit
around the planet in September of 1989, and allegedly took startling  infra-
red photography just prior to its ceasing transmissions.  Soviet Cosmonaut
insiders claim that the infra-red photos showed an aerial view of an ancient
city the size of Los Angeles with a geometry of streets and cross roads.  =
 The
cultural features were  4 kilometers wide and 60 kilometers long.  Infra-red
film indicates the city was still emitting some heat.  These alleged
photographs have never been released to the public. The Soviet Spacecraft=
 then
transmitted photos of a strange immense oval shadow just prior to its=
 suddenly
going off the air. Its last transmission showed a large unidentified  cigar
like object approaching the satellite. All transmissions ceased implying the
satellite had been destroyed.

The apparent programmed release of information points to a carefully thought
out plan to prepare the public for spectacular announcements of a past
civilization on Mars. In the summer of 1996,  NASA announced that microbes
that once lived on Mars had traveled to Earth inside a Martian meteorite.=
 They
apparently had been blasted off the red planet more than 15 million years=
 ago
possibly during the impact from another large planet.  Some Martian microbes
may have survived the trip and continued to live on Earth. Recent studies by
scientists at the University of Wisconsin show that temperatures of the
microbes never exceeded 212 degrees Fahrenheit.  Although, scalding hot it=
 is
within the living range for many life forms. Theoretically, Martian life=
 forms
could have reached our planet millions of years ago and be part of our
heritage.

The Hubble telescope findings indicate there are clouds, dust storms, water
and a climate similar to Anarctica on Mars. The scientists believe their=
 could
have been both an atmosphere and a magnetic field on Mars in the distant=
 past.
Analysis of Viking, Mariner and Soviet Phobos photography suggest that a
civilization once existed on Mars. Dr. John E. Brandenburg who has made a
study of the photographic evidence believes that three large carved faces=
 all
with similar details indicate that a humanoid civilization once existed on
Mars. Large pyramid like structures have also been identified. Nearby are=
 what
appears to be archeological ruins similar to those in ancient Egypt. Study=
 of
the geology and Mars surface indicate that water, mild temperatures and an
oxygen rich atmosphere once existed on Mars.
Scientists have also confirmed the existence of a planet-wide magnetic field
that would protect life on Mars from using an instrument on-board NASA's=
 Mars
Global Surveyor orbiter, as the spacecraft began to circle and  study the
planet from a highly elliptical orbit. "
Interestingly, the faces on Mars resemble the human like Sphinx in Egypt.
Ancient Egyptian, Sumarian and Israeli writings tell of visits by aliens=
 from
other planets.  New evidence suggests that the Sphinx may be much older than
anyone suspected.  Both faces are similar and suggest we humans and Martians
are from the same or related genetic material.  They even resemble the=
 Nordic
type of alien often reported in the literature of Ufology. The three
kilometers long face has numerous anatomical details which include a mouth,
lips, teeth, nose, eyes, cheekbones, chin and hair.

Tom Van Flandern a respected scientist has conducted additional tests and
writes: "Either the unusual landforms at Cydonia on Mars are natural=
 features,
or they are artificial constructs of intelligent beings. A number of tests=
 of
artificiality have been proposed. For example, it has been noted that the
"Face" is a three-dimensional face, not merely a profile or an outline. As
such, it still looks like a face from every angle. Moreover, the U.S.=
 military
has perfected the use of fractal techniques to search for man-made objects
camouflaged by terrain in aerial photographs. It has been well demonstrated
that natural objects show a high degree of fractal content, whereas=
 artificial
objects have more symmetry and regularity. This software was applied to
various features on Mars, with the finding that the  "Face" gave by far the
highest degree of artificiality of any image tested, usually high enough to
assure artificiality of the object if it had appeared on Earth.

In the immediate vicinity of the Cydonian landforms, but in general not
elsewhere on the Martian   surface, can be found more than a dozen small,
raised mounds of similar size.
The Stanley McDaniel Report points to a Martian civilization shows that the
random geology hypothesis fails to account for the regularity and redundancy
of geometric patterns in these formations. At the least, enigmatic geology=
 is
involved, the alternative being intelligent design. Each of these features,
taken in conjunction with the presence of several other anomalous objects in
close proximity, have induced a number of serious scientists to seek to
develop further tests of artificiality. Several factors such as the=
 Bilateral
symmetry of the Face indicate this was made by some sort of intelligence. If
natural, the chances are negligible that the shadowed side  of the object
would resemble a symmetric half of a human face, and ought to be a random=
 pile
of rocks or sand. If artificial, the mirror image of the visible half face=
 is
to be expected.  New findings suggest Cydonia is a culturally significant
location that once was located on the equator and was situated in a polar-
aligned north-south orientation. Functionality: The faces on Mount Rushmore=
 in
South Dakota are visible to people on the ground. The "Face" on Mars stares=
 up
into space, although ten times the height of the Pyramid at Giza, it cannot=
 be
seen from any other planet. A lack of obvious purpose suggests a natural
object, although we cannot hope to  guess all possible purposes of its
hypothetical builders. An obvious purposefulness would suggest =
 artificiality.

The Mars surface shows indication of a tremendous explosion in space.  We=
 can
speculate that the asteroid belt was once a planet.  Its explosion caused
damage burying parts of the planet in 21 kilometers of ruble. Assuming the
landforms at Cydonia on Mars had been built by advanced beings, the exploded
planet might have been the cause of the demise of their civilization.   If
that were the case, then the structures at Cydonia would have necessarily=
 been
built before the most recent explosion event. There was evidence that a=
 shift
of the martian pole was probably caused by the explosion.  the "Face" on=
 Mars
was relative to the prior location of the Martian pole.

Tom Van Flandern suggests that Mars is a former moon of the destroyed Planet
V. And as we have seen, Mars would have kept the same side permanently=
 toward
Planet V. So our line of reasoning has suggested a previously unimagined
cultural purpose for a "Face" to be built looking up into space: It would=
 have
been visible to the presumed occupants of parent Planet V. We can readily
imagine that the hypothetical builders would have outfitted the "Face" and
landforms   with appropriate illumination to make them visible even when in
total darkness. Hence, a cultural   purpose for a "Face" looking up into=
 space
has arisen completing the test.
It is intriguing to note that this hypothesized civilization apparently had
the ability to save some of its members from the deadly effects of=
 explosions
by space transporting them to the far side of nearby moons. But following=
 the
destruction of their primary world, Body C, at 3.2  Million years ago (Mya),
this species would have been forced to choose between attempting to survive=
 on
explosion-torn, atmosphere-stripped Mars, or long-distance relocation to the
most habitable of the remaining planets,  Earth. This is intriguing because
the first appearance of hominids on Earth also dates to just about the time=
 of
this last explosion, 3.2 Mya. And it has been noted that the Face is
apparently more hominid-like than alien.

In conclusion, the "Face" on Mars has now passed each test of artificiality
yet proposed. These tests include a three dimensional structure, a lack of
fractal patterns in the image, non-random distribution of the nearby small
mounds, proximity of other anomalous landforms, an apparent bilateral
symmetry, being located on the  Martian equator, having a culturally
significant orientation, and serving an  apparent culturally significant
purpose. It would be an exaggeration to say that  the case for artificiality
is now compelling, and many thoughtful people will  still find that=
 conclusion
less likely than all these "coincidences" put  together. Yet the balance of
the evidence, considered objectively, now weighs  clearly in favor of
artificiality over a natural origin of the Cydonian  landforms.  Thanks to=
 Tom
Van Flandern, A more detailed version of this article with photographs is
found at: http://www.metaresearch.org

A hard copy edition of all 52 issues of last years "Filer's Files 1997" =
 with
index is now available for $20.00 US.
Please write to George Filer at 222 Jackson Road Medford, NJ 08055 with your
check and a copy will be mailed to you.



__________________________________________________________________
SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL INC.
(A Non-Profit Organization)
Administrative:
3579 E. Foothill Blvd. #506
Pasadena, CA 91107
USA

Membership:
PO Box 801
Leander, TX 78646-0801
USA

Skywatch International Inc. and this list service are
not responsible for content or authenticity of posts.

Skywatch International, Inc. endorses no political candidate for office due=
 to
the organization's status as a non-profit corporation."

"What could be stranger than the truth?"

=A91998 Skywatch International Inc.
_____________________________________________________________________









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 21

                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:10:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:52:53 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:58:40 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:15:47 -0500
>> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>> From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

>> >From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
>> >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:36:10 EST
>> >To: updates@globalserve.net
>> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


THE GARDEN OF EDEN

Robert, Bob, Philip and List

One might think that Mr Santilli is some annoying weed.  Quite to
the contrary, I believe Mr Santilli is a plain garden broccoli
that has achieved its development through proper watering, not
forgetting the bull shit and the pesticides (the later being
applied to avoid bugs that would long have eaten it away).

Why not boycott Mr Santilli?  This means: a moratory on any AA
stuff until the guy brings foreward the proof.  This means: no
conferences, no CDs, nothing that could bring him money, directly
or indirectly.


The AA stuff is as best suspicious material.

Ever thought that spraying the stuff around might provide Mr
Santilli his welfare?

Ever thought that establishing a dichotomy between Mr Santilli
and his production can only encourage others of his kind ?  Where
is the profit?

Ufology is at loss here: it is the only place where a used car
salesman could sell the Holy Grail.


Serge Salvaille









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 21

                   Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

From: dkauble@iquest.net (Dave Kauble)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:02:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:50:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:30:34 -0500

>>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:30:07 -0500
>>From: Dave Kauble <dkauble@iquest.net>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo

>>>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:40:11 +0200
>>>From: Jakes Louw <LOUWJE@telkom.co.za>
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Pilot's Incredible Sighting & Photo


>Dave, Jakes and List,

>Considering the equipment, we need more than:

>Camera ............: Minolta Maxum, Rokor 28/80 mm 100 asa

>(should be Maxxum)

>We need:

>The EXACT model - I gather we have AT LEAST the following variants
>from the Maxxum series: Maxxum 5000, 7000, 3000i, 500si

>Lens setting of the zoom lens: 28 mm, 50 mm, 80 mm ?

>Autofocus on/off if any

>Automatic settings on/off if any.

Jakes and Serge,

I have received the following camera information from John
English, along with additional information that the sighting was
made by more than two people.

The Minolta was a Maxxum 7000
Auto Focus was on
Camera was in auto program mode
Lens setting of the zoom lens: Unknown

This seems to account for the streak and the distortion of the
object as it passed in front of the photographed sailplane.

I would also like to add, that Jakes' first comment about the
wing appears to me to be inaccurate.  The object definitely
appears to be in front of the sailplane wing. The distinction
between the two is discernible, denoting the object is completely
in front of the plane. (The object image and the distortion
caused by the camera is distinct and does not "mingle" with the
plane wing.)

The movement of the object and the camera setting appears to
account for the streak and distortion.  John states the object
resembled a very bright sphere.

John provides further information about the object he (and they)
saw. (He was in the plane photgraphed.)


I have posted these details on  Deb's UFO Research Information
Clearinghouse at:

http://www.debshome.com/PilotsIncredibleSighting.html

Best,

Dave










   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 22

                   Re: Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico

From: RSchatte@aol.com {Rebecca Keith]
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:14:02 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 03:51:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico

From: AOLNews@aol.com
Subject: Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:48:33 EST


Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico

.c The Associated Press

 By JAMES ANDERSON

TORTUGUERO, Puerto Rico (AP) - A small NASA project to study the
ionosphere above Puerto Rico has become a big public relations
mission for scientists trying to convince skeptical islanders
that there is no danger.

Hundreds of people have protested the mission to launch 11
rockets, most filled with chemicals. Two U.S. lawmakers asked
NASA to postpone the project, and a local senator even introduced
a bill to outlaw toying with the atmosphere above the Caribbean
island.

Protesters shouting ``NASA, go home!'' tried to block access to
the Tortuguero launch pad Monday night before police stepped in.
Demonstrators pounded on a car leaving the launch pad, spitting
on its windows. Others vowed to paddle kayaks into a coastal
safety zone near the launch site.

Scientists from the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration, private universities and the Goddard Space Flight
Center say they've spent as much time trying to ease fears as
they have on science.

``If you get one or two science (questions) here you're doing
well,'' said Miguel Larsen, a Clemson University physicist who is
supervising the first launches from the small pad 30 miles west
of San Juan.

Set to run into April, the Coqui II project will study turbulence
in the ionosphere that can interfere with satellite
communications and even produce wrong Global Positioning System
readings.

Rockets launched from Tortuguero will release the chemical
trimethylaluminum inside a thin, electrified layer of the
ionosphere about 60 miles above the Earth's surface.

The chemicals will slowly burn, creating a luminous cloud in the
night sky. The nearby Arecibo Observatory will train its radar on
the cloud to pick up its chemical properties and track its
movements, Larsen said.

The 40-foot rockets are supposed to splash down in the Atlantic
Ocean at least 60 miles off the coast. That hasn't appeased
activists who say NASA flouted local law by failing to prepare an
environmental impact statement.

The launch pad, they note, is surrounded by Tortuguero Lagoon, a
nature sanctuary itself surrounded by the town of Vega Baja,
population 60,000.

They fear contamination from lead packed into each rocket - or
worse, a misfire that could ignite the trimethylaluminum.

NASA scientists say hundreds of similar launches have gone off
without a hitch - including a 1992 Puerto Rico mission dubbed
Coqui, after an indigenous tree frog. Since Coqui II differs
little from Coqui I, a new environmental impact study isn't
necessary, they say.

The rockets, they add, have a 97 percent success rate.

``The 3 percent (failure rate) is too much, too risky in such a
crowded area,'' said Jose Escoda, a member of the Committee
Against Environmental Experiments, a coalition of environmental
and activist groups.

On Thursday, U.S. District Judge Jose Fuste denied their request
for a temporary injunction.

Two members of the House of Representatives with strong Puerto
Rico ties, Democrats Luis Gutierrez of Illinois and Nydia
Velazquez of New York, urged NASA administrator Daniel Goldin to
postpone the launches.

In Puerto Rico, Senator Ruben Barrios proposed legislation to
``prohibit experiments that alter the electrical and magnetic
properties of the ionosphere.'' The island's bar association,
meanwhile, suggested the agency take its launches elsewhere.

Scientists say Puerto Rico, with its Arecibo Observatory, is
ideal for studying the atmospheric phenomenon and have appeared
on talk shows and visited schools to plead their case.

``This is very unusual,'' Larsen said of the protests.

AP-NY-02-20-98 0345EST

Copyright 1997 The Associated Press.  The information  contained
in the AP news report may not be published,  broadcast, rewritten
or otherwise distributed without  prior written authority of The
Associated Press.







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   Feb > Feb 22

                    More Fireballs Seen in the Western US

From: RSchatte@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:17:07 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 03:56:20 -0500
Subject: More Fireballs Seen in the Western US

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:02:18
To: bufocalvin@aol.com
From: Ndunlks@aol.com (by way of EB <logger@california.com>) (by way of
        Curator <ufobfmuseum@value.net>)
Subject: Great Balls O' Fire!

To Insidersufos list:


More Fireballs Seen in the West

By MARTHA BELLISLE
.c The Associated Press

DENVER (AP) - The phone lines to Denver's Museum of Natural
History have been buzzing since a fireball streaked across the
Colorado sky last month.

That flash of light, caught on a homeowner's security camera, was
not an isolated incident; it was followed by at least four more
fireball sightings, said Jack Murphy of the museum's geology
department. He hopes to find pieces of the celestial objects for
the museum's collection.

As new reports of sightings keep coming in, scientists are
debating the meteorites' origin and the meaning of the increased
activity. There is more at stake, they say, than where a piece of
rock fell to the ground.

``These little things are the little brothers and sisters of the
bigger ones,'' said Doug Revelle, a scientist at Los Alamos
National Laboratory.
``The reason for the interest is eventually a big one is going to
hit, a real big one. And the question is: Can we protect
ourselves?''

If a large meteor hit Earth, ``life as we know it would be very
different,'' he said.

When a fireball fell into the Earth's atmosphere on Jan. 11, a
Front Range resident's home security camera documented the bright
light and shadows along with the sonic boom caused by the
apparent meteorite, Revelle said.

Scientists will use the time between the flash and boom - 132
seconds - to help determine where the meteorite touched down,
assuming it didn't burn out before landing.

Then, at about noon on Jan. 27, a commercial airline pilot flying
over Wyoming spotted ``a ball of flame trailing smoke.''

``He reported he did get some turbulence from the object,'' Jim
Patton, operations supervisor for the Federal Aviation
Administration's flight service center in Casper told the
Rawlins, Wyo., Daily Times. ``He saw the debris and felt the
shock wave from it.''

Residents in Breckenridge, Colo., also reported seeing that
daytime fireball.
Murphy said they believe the space rock was heading south to
north and landed just north of Hanna, Wyo.

That night, another fireball broke into the Earth's atmosphere.

Scientists believe that meteorite came down in southern Colorado
or northern New Mexico, Murphy said. People in Breckenridge
spotted that fireball, too.

``That one was seen traveling east to west,'' Murphy said. ``It
has been a long time since we've seen one moving like that.''

Another meteorite was seen and heard at sunrise in eastern
Colorado on Jan. 30. And Murphy is investigating a report that
came in earlier this month.

So what's happening?

``I don't know,'' Murphy said. ``We can't attribute it to
anything. But it is unusual to have so much activity.''

University of Denver astronomer Robert Stencel suggested that
Earth may be getting pelted with pieces of the Hale-Bopp comet.
Early in January the Earth passed through the part of space the
comet had traveled.

``Comets are like kids with muddy boots,'' Stencel said. ``They
leave a trail of debris in their wakes.''

Meteorites from asteroids breaking out of the orbital belts
between Mars and Jupiter are made up of metals, mostly iron. A
meteorite from a comet would have a lighter element composition,
Stencel said.

Such space debris is rare and would be of great scientific value,
he said.
Scientists will test the composition of the meteorites - if they
can get their hands on them.

Revelle said he's excited about the meteorite activity, but he
can't account for it.

The reports describe a smoke trail following the fireballs - or
bolides, which are exploding meteors.

``The smoke trail is an indication that the object was quite big
and strong,'' Revelle said. ``Over the globe we see objects that
are about a meter across an average of only 12 times a year.''

Last Oct. 10, a meteorite crashed near West Texas and New Mexico;
then on Dec. 9, a large fireball crashed near Greenland, and on
Dec. 13, a meteorite was seen across hundreds of miles, from
Minnesota and Wisconsin south into Iowa and northern Missouri.

Revelle said history may give us some insight into the meaning of
the increase in fireball activity.

About 60 million years ago, an asteroid crashed into the Earth
and kicked up enough dust to blot out the sun. Some scientists
believe this resulted in the death of more than 80 percent of all
animals and led to the extinction of dinosaurs.

``These events seem to occur every 60 million years, give or take
10 million,'' he said. ``We're about three million years short of
60 million.

``In order to defend the Earth from a large meteor, we would need
to know about it while it was months away to deflect it,'' he
said. ``If we knew about it when it was weeks away, it would be
too late.''

AP-NY-02-15-98 1202EST

Copyright 1998 The Associated Press. The information contained in
the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The
Associated Press.  All active hyperlinks have been inserted by
AOL.











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   Feb > Feb 22

                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:26:04 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:05:29 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


>  Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:41:15 -0500
>  From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>  Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>  Regarding...

>  >From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
>  >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:36:10 EST
>  >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

>  Robert wrote:

>  >>  Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:26:06 +0000
>  >>  From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>  >>  To: updates@globalserve.net
>  >>  Subject: Beyond Roswell Q&A Site

>  >>  A new question and answer session with myself  and Ray Santilli
>  >>  regarding the alien autopsy film has now been added to our new
>  >>  web site. You can


>  >First question that comes to mind.

>  >"Ray, why have you continually broken your word (lied??) by NOT
>  >giving KODAK a couple of frames from the films?"


>  Robert,

>  There are perhaps some misunderstandings involved in this issue.

<snip>

James,

The bottom line seems to be that Santilli tells one story after
another.

Ten years from now Santilli will still be telling stories and the
question of the film will still be endlessly debated, much like
our own American version of the film, the MJ-12 documents.  They
can't quite be proven totally true, nor can they quite be totally
proven false.  Its been 11 years since they exploded on the scene
and we are still back to where we were in the summer of 87.

Cheers,
Robert








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   Feb > Feb 22

                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:59:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 06:05:32 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

Regarding...

>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:58:40 +0000
>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

Philip wrote:

>If anyone is curious to know what we are talking about simply lok uo
>our web site at: www.beyondroswell.com


Philip,

As you know, the Oct-Nov '96 issue of 'Nexus Magazine', contained
the following article:

The 'Alien Autopsy Film'
by Michael Hesemann (C) 1996


As suggested seemed likely, despite the many fundamental flaws in
that article, it nevertheless still formed the basis of the
'alien autopsy' material later published in 'Beyond Roswell'.


This was of course the subject of some discussions and I note you
confirmed:

Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:43:17 +0000
From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: UFO
UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' - A Book

Dear James,

I was as disapointed as anyone to disciver that many, if not most
of the corrections that were sent to our publisher Marlowe & Co
were not made. Some of these are minor errors while others are
more significant. Both Michael Hesemann, myself and Bob Shell
have made our feelings known to our publisher and our literary
agent regarding this matter and we are doing all we can to
rectify the mater before the next print run.
[Cut]



The 'Nexus' article was written in Hesemann's inimitable 'style',
or so we might have thought. However, it now seems to have been
subjected to cosmetic surgery and reappears in the December 1997
edition of the MUFON UFO Journal as:

'The Santilli Alien Autopsy Film'
by Philip Mantle


In editing Hesemann's original article, one can only assume you
do not, for some incomprehensible reason, appreciate that the
Journal's recent publication is contrary to any public concerns
about the quality of the research evident in 'Beyond Roswell'.


In plagiarising, presumably with approval, Hesemann's article,
you have carried forward his basic errors.

In one example, Hesemann wrote:

According to the cameraman, four living aliens were found at the
crash site. One did not survive the recovery operation, the
second and third died about four weeks later, and the fourth
survived until May 1949.
We do not know anything about the autopsy of the first creature,
and it might very well have been that it was subjected to a 'big'
scientific autopsy.

The cameraman filmed the second and third autopsies on 1st and
3rd July 1947, when the main concern might have been to find out
the cause of their sudden deaths in order to find a way to keep
alien no. 4 alive-unless they could establish communication and
find out why these visitors had come to Earth.  This was surely
of a higher interest for the national defence forces than a
scientific study of an alien life-form. Nevertheless, we assume
that organs were taken for further study during the dissection.

Furthermore, according to the cameraman, the fourth alien was
autopsied scientifically in a medical theatre in Washington, DC,
in the presence of leading scientists from the US, England and
France.


You amend this to read:

According to the cameraman, there were originally four living
creatures discovered at the crash site. One did not survive the
recovery operation, the second and third died about four weeks
later, and the fourth survived until May 1949.

We do not know anything about the autopsy of the first creature,
and it might very well be that this was a large scientific
autopsy.

The cameraman filmed the second and third autopsies (only one of
which has been released to the public) on July 1st and July 3rd,
1947, when the main concern might have been to discover the cause
of their death in order to keep the fourth creature alive.

According to the cameraman the fourth creature was autopsied
scientifically in a medical theatre in Washington, DC, in the
presence of leading scientists from the USA, England and France.
[End]


After Hesemann's article was published, I wrote of these claims:

Hesemann noted that one creature supposedly died at the scene,
two died shortly afterwards and one lived until 1949. He
therefore concluded, "The cameraman filmed the second and third
autopsies on 1st and 3rd July 1947".

This seemed to be in error as the photocopies of the claimed reel
labels relating to the 'second autopsy' refer to 'Body No. 2' and
Ray Santilli had confirmed that the other 'autopsy' footage is
recorded as the first autopsy.

I pointed this out and Hesemann replied, "Indeed, the cameraman
calls the autopsies of July 1st and 3rd "the first and second"
autopsy, but it referred to autopsies he had filmed. Since FOUR
aliens had been recovered, as he said, and one was killed on the
crash site, only ONE survived until 1949, it's a logical
conclusion as every historian who has to reconstruct historical
events would do, that IN FACT HIS first autopsy was the one of
the second being".

In the meantime, Shell had also told Hesemann, "This is not the
information given to me by Ray, nor does it fit the info on the
film labels. The autopsy we have all seen is clearly labelled as
the second, and, according to Ray the other one is equally
clearly labelled as the first. The cameraman gives the dates of
July 1, 1947 for the first one, and July 3, 1947, for the second
one. The third, according to Ray, took place in Washington, DC,
in 1949 in a large operating theatre with many spectators. Ray
said nothing to me about the nationality of the spectators, and
my assumption was that they were all American. This clearly
leaves one body not accounted for.
Since the cameraman implied that at least one was not injured in
his original statement, this uninjured one could have lived for
some time. Perhaps it was the one autopsied in 1949, perhaps
not".

Enlightened that his reconstruction of historical events was
missing one alien, Hesemann queried, "maybe you are right... but
since FOUR beings were found and three autopsies were filmed by
our cameraman and only ONE survived until 1949 when the third
filmed autopsy took place... what happened to the fourth one?"

In the story, one of the four 'aliens' had always been
unaccounted for, although it seems to have taken Hesemann some
two years to notice this.
[End]


Have you only just now realised this also?



Hesemann also claimed:

THE PATHOLOGISTS
According to the cameraman the autopsy was performed by "Dr
Bronk" and "Dr Williams".

Prof. Dr Detlev Bronk (1897-1975) was no surprise, since his name
already appeared in the controversial "Majestic 12" documents. He
was Chairman of the National Research Council, America's leading
biophysicist and a member of the Advisory Committee of the Army,
Air Force and of the Atomic Energy Commission-certainly a person
to whom the supervision of an autopsy of this relevance could
have been entrusted. After his death, all his papers and
documents were preserved at the Rockefeller Institute for Medical
Research, of which he was President from 1953.

Dr Bronk was a very methodical person, kept detailed diaries and
all his correspondence, notes and dates. But when Bob Shell
wanted to look through his papers and diaries for 1947, he learnt
that, mysteriously enough, this is the only year for which all
the records are missing.
None of the friendly librarians could tell him what had happened
to them or why they are still missing.

Dr Williams might have been Dr Robert Parvin Williams
(1891-1967), who was Special Assistant to the Surgeon General of
the Army at Fort Monroe, Virginia. He was a Lt. Col. in 1947 and
was promoted to Brig.
General in 1949. Alone, the naming of Dr Williams-who was the
right man in the right place for the task-indicates the cameraman
had some inside knowledge.
[Cut]


I addressed these issues:

It's alleged that, according to the cameraman, the autopsy was
performed by 'Dr Bronk' and 'Dr Williams'.

Hesemann claims that after Bronk's death, "all his papers and
documents were preserved at the Rockefeller Institute for Medical
Research". It's further claimed that Bronk was a "very methodical
person" who "kept detailed diaries and all his correspondence,
notes and dates". However, when Shell made some enquiries about
Bronk's "papers and diaries for 1947", he discovered that
"mysteriously enough, this is the only year for which all the
records are missing" and allegedly none of the librarians could
explain why.

This all sounds convincingly conspiratorial, but when I asked
Shell about the basis of these claims, he confirmed, "I have said
repeatedly that I have done nothing but PRELIMINARY research on
any of this so far, but people always forget to quote that
part".

Shell had apparently simply telephoned the Rockefeller Archives
and one other location and as Stanton Friedman explained to me,
"I had been to the Rockefeller Archives many years ago and found
their holdings on Bronk not very exciting...there was much
classified work that really isn't reflected at the Rockefeller
holdings...there are other holdings at many other places where he
served".

It seems to be an established fact that Bronk was involved in a
number of sensitive, classified projects, however, there is no
serious evidence to remotely suggest that he was involved with an
'alien autopsy' in the first place.

As for Dr Williams, it's suggested this might have been "Dr
Robert Parvin Williams (1891-1967), who was Special Assistant to
the Surgeon General of the Army at Fort Monroe, Virginia".

Despite the obvious absence of any evidence which connects this
Dr Williams, or any other, with an 'alien autopsy', Hesemann
astonishingly concludes, "Alone, the naming of Dr Williams-who
was the right man in the right place for the task-indicates the
cameraman had some inside knowledge".
[End]


Yet, over a year later, you publish what are effectively
Hesemann's exact same comments, including his ridiculous logic,
in your own words here, that:

Dr Williams might have been Dr Robert Parvin Williams
(1891-1967), who was Special Assistant to the Surgeon General of
the Army at Fort Monroe, Virginia. He was Lt. Col. in 1947 and
was promoted to Brig.
General in 1949. Alone, the naming of Williams, who was the right
man in the right place for the task, indicates the cameraman had
some inside knowledge.
[End]


Some further errors and misrepresentations which, for some
reason, have simply been ignored:

"Careful study of stills made from the original film and
high-quality Betacam copies confirmed that the film was indeed
shot on 16-mm material", claimed Hesemann.

Although it's common knowledge this has not been confirmed at
all, you repeat, "Careful study of stills made from the original
film and high-quality BETACAM copies confirmed the film indeed
was shot on 16-mm material".


Hesemann continued, "Two segments with three frames each, one
clearly showing the autopsy room, were given to Bob Shell, editor
of Shutterbug magazine.".

It's now well established that these frames do not clearly show
the autopsy room, but come from unrelated frames, later added to
the beginning of the film.

Noticeably, you have dropped this claim, merely stating, "Two
segments of film, each with three frames, were given to Bob
Shell, editor of Shutterbug magazine...".


However, you still maintain, "In April 1996 Bob Shell was
contacted by Captain James McAndrew of the United States Air
Force".

Never happened.

And so on.


Commenting on Hesemann's article, I see that I also mentioned:

It was originally offered to Walt Andrus at MUFON and Hesemann
believes it wasn't published, "because its content was against
the MUFON partyline and the article itself maybe too scientific
for the MUFON UFO Journal".

As I suggested to Hesemann at the time, perhaps there were too
many words and not enough pictures.
[End]


There's a certain irony in that Hesemann, albeit under another
guise, did get his long since discredited 'research' published
after all!


The question is, why?



James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com







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   Feb > Feb 22

                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:41:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:53:31 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:10:50 -0500
>THE GARDEN OF EDEN

>Robert, Bob, Philip and List

>One might think that Mr Santilli is some annoying weed.  Quite to
>the contrary, I believe Mr Santilli is a plain garden broccoli
>that has achieved its development through proper watering, not
>forgetting the bull shit and the pesticides (the later being
>applied to avoid bugs that would long have eaten it away).

>Why not boycott Mr Santilli?  This means: a moratory on any AA
>stuff until the guy brings foreward the proof.  This means: no
>conferences, no CDs, nothing that could bring him money, directly
>or indirectly.


>The AA stuff is as best suspicious material.

>Ever thought that spraying the stuff around might provide Mr
>Santilli his welfare?

>Ever thought that establishing a dichotomy between Mr Santilli
>and his production can only encourage others of his kind ?  Where
>is the profit?

>Ufology is at loss here: it is the only place where a used car
>salesman could sell the Holy Grail.


>Serge Salvaille

Serge,

Just a point of fact.  Ray Santilli does not make any money
from our CD ROM.  He gave us permission to use the still images
on it at no charge.  Same with the Beyond Roswell book.  He makes
nothing on it.

Bob









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   Feb > Feb 22

                              Re: More Roswell

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:04:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:56:17 -0500
Subject: Re: More Roswell

>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:09:52 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: More Roswell

>Steve,

>Since Beyond Roswell came out I've gotten several letters from
>people who were Roswell residents and say the same.  I think the
>military clamped a very tight lid on this, but with military and
>civilians.

>All this for a balloon????  Come on!

>I just got a letter this week from a person in Hawaii who wishes
>to remain anonymous for now.  She says that her grandfather was
>in the 509th at the time, and has always told them that it really
>happened.  She has promised me to try and get a public statement
>from him, but thinks he might still be too scared of the govt to
>go public.

>I think a LOT of people know what happened.  I just hope we can
>get past their fear before they all die.

>Bob


The typo demon got me.

Second sentence should read:

I think the military clamped a very tight lid on this, but with the
military more than civilians.

Bob









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                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:48:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:54:48 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


>From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:26:04 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


>>  Robert,

>>  There are perhaps some misunderstandings involved in this issue.

><snip>

>James,

>The bottom line seems to be that Santilli tells one story after
>another.

>Ten years from now Santilli will still be telling stories and the
>question of the film will still be endlessly debated, much like
>our own American version of the film, the MJ-12 documents.  They
>can't quite be proven totally true, nor can they quite be totally
>proven false.  Its been 11 years since they exploded on the scene
>and we are still back to where we were in the summer of 87.

>Cheers,
>Robert


Robert,

Those who have paid attention will note that I said it would take
a minimum of five years to prove/disprove the AA film.

I've said many times that this may turn out to be Ufology's
Zapruder film, which is still debated hotly more than 30 years
after the fact.

Bob









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   Feb > Feb 22

                               BWWMA 19980222

From: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:02:29 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:07:37 -0500
Subject: BWWMA 19980222

Bufo Calvin
P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA  94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin">http://members.aol.com/bufo
calvin<;/a>
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this
edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that attribution is made
to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is good etiquette to check with
strangers before you e-mail them something.  If you forward this, please make
sure it is clear that you are forwarding it).

February 22, 1998

Busy week for me...thanks to Cryptodude for some heads-ups.  Have to keep it
brief this morning.  By the way, my article in the 50th anniversary of FATE is
out now.  I've been able to pick one up in a store on the West (or should I
say "Wet") Coast...

A&E

Sunday, 2/22, 4:00 PM, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY, "Dragons: Myths &
Legends" episode
Sunday, 2/22, 7:00 PM, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOs? (narrated by Michael Dorn)
Sunday, 2/22, 11:00 PM, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOs? (narrated by Michael Dorn)

THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL

Saturday, 2/28, 2:30 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, "Prehistoric
Puzzles" episode (archaeological mostly, I think)
Saturday, 2/28, 6:00 PM, UFOS DOWN TO EARTH, "Deep Secrets" episode (re: Bob
Lazar and Area 51)


THE LEARNING CHANNEL
Monday, 2/23, 6:00 PM...something about UFOs, but the listing I have is quite
confused.

NBC

Wednesday, 2/25, 8:00 PM, SEA MONSTERS: SEARCH FOR THE GIANT SQUID

PBS

NOVA, "Secrets of the Psychics" with arch-Skeptic James Randi

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL

SIGHTINGS is now running Sundays at 7:00 PM, and every weeknight at 5:00 PM
and 9:00 PM, apparently

----

SYNDICATED

Tuesday, 2/24, MONTEL WILLIAMS, psychic Sylvia Browne

____________________________

You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly
redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by
e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com.  You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to
Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert the same way. Also, please let me know if
there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, t
he week before.
_____________________________

**OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an
Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS
encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions:
however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece
or others presented under my own name.
______________________________

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/weirdware/books.html">Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Books</
A>
I'm very excited about this!  Some of you know, I ran a bookstore for years, and
 it has always been a love of mine.  I get asked often to recommend
books(I do write reviews for several publications) on these topics, and now I
can do it and actually give you a source for them at the same time!  This is
being done in association with Amazon.com, which has an outstanding
reputation for the five "S"s of internet shopping: selection, searchability,
service, savings, and security.  If there is any specific book you want (or
topic in which you are interested), let me know and I will do the research
and e-mail you a link you can use to check it out more (and order it if you
want).  I will be linking to books within the Media Alert, to make it more
efficient for you.  If you click on the link, you will be sent to that title
on Amazon. You do =not= have to buy it at that point!  You may, but the
option is yours.







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 22

                   Re: Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net> [John Velez]
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:51:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:30:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico

>From: RSchatte@aol.com {Rebecca Keith]
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:14:02 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Fwd: Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico

>From: AOLNews@aol.com
>Subject: Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:48:33 EST


>Rocket Stirs Ruckus in Puerto Rico

>.c The Associated Press

> By JAMES ANDERSON

>TORTUGUERO, Puerto Rico (AP) - A small NASA project to study the
>ionosphere above Puerto Rico has become a big public relations
>mission for scientists trying to convince skeptical islanders
>that there is no danger.

<snip>

Hi Rebecca, hi All,

Larsen says,

> ``This is very unusual,'' Larsen said of the protests.

Well, no it's not! Beginning with the _forced eviction_ of
the residents of Isla Cabra (Goat Island) by the US military
back in the 50's so that they could use the island for a gunnery
range, the people of Puerto Rico have opposed further US
military incursions onto the island. Even before!

The history of Puerto Rican protest against the US military and
government is old and bloody. How many are old enough to recall
when three Puerto Rican (Independistas) waltzed into the US
senate and opened fire back in the late 50's?

How many recall the bloody student riots in San Juan in the
60's? I could go on for hours! Someone ought to tell Mr Larsen
to crack a history book or two before making comments such
as the one he makes above.

It's _not_ "unusual" in fact it's almost typical of the response
that many of my people have made (and will make again in the
future) every time the US tries to take another piece of our
island. They have already tried to rob us of our culture, and
they will not be allowed to poison and pollute our island if
anyone can help it!

Que viva la protesta!

John Velez, Puerto Riqueno









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   Feb > Feb 22

                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: XianneKei@aol.com [Rebecca Keith]
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:52:55 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:42:22 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:59:58 -0500
>  From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>  Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site
>  Sender: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>  Regarding...

>  >Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:58:40 +0000
>  >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
>  >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


James, I wish you would submit a rebuttal to the awful article
which ran in the MUFON Journal.

Send submissions to Dwight Connelly at dconnell@ccipost.net or
mail to him at 103 Oldtowne Road, Seguin, Texas 78155-4099.

Rebecca








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   Feb > Feb 22

                      Mysterious Valley Report Dec-Jan

From: "Christopher O'Brien" <tmv@pop.amigo.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:51:24 -7
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:40:34 -0500
Subject: Mysterious Valley Report Dec-Jan

More anomalous events have surfaced from December and January in The
San Luis Valley CO/NM.  I have elected to forward you this report--
even though some of the information was contained in my last "Winter
Update"

Volume Five,  The Mysterious Valley Report   Number One
December 1997----January 1998
Compiled by Christopher O'Brien  c 1998

Here We Go Again!
1997 in The San Luis Valley ended with a unusual animal death bang,
and 1998 began with numerous reports of anomalous object sightings.
Several reports from Huerfano County are still under investigation as
reports of fantastic aerial activity were fielded by Huerfano
investigator David Perkins.  Coincedental reports of massive military
activity followed these unbelievable reports of huge "disco-ball"
craft, which reportedly shot out smaller red lights that criss-crossed
the Huerfano Valley for hours, over the course of three nights.  What
are the military flyboys with toys up to anyway? Levengood To Publish
Findings In the next issue of The Mysterious Valley Report, I will
present Dr. W.C. Levengood's soil and plant analysis results from
Redox Testing of Crop-circle and "Bovine Excision Sites" from
1993-1997.  Nancy Talbot, coordinator for Levengood will be presenting
these results at the National MUFON Conference in Denver this coming
June.  Preliminary analysis has been highly intriguing.  Abnormal
levels of magnetite and depressed redox-levels in plant mitichondria
will be mentioned extensively.  Levengood's work in the bio-physical
field brings an air of legitimacy to our proto-science of UFOlogy.
Hopefully, more scientists will climb aboard and verify Levengood's
findings.

A Flurry of Sightings Reported
Saturday December 13, 1997 7:30 p.m., Thomas Paye and a friend were
driving north on State Highway 285, two miles north of La Jara, CO.
They witnessed two unusual lights/objects, the first at 7:05 p.m.,
while traveling north, and the second sighting at 10 p.m., while
headed south on 285.  Both objects were seen while looking toward the
east  Ist object was an orange globe, the second, a blue one.
Sighting locations are two and twelve miles from gelding death
location. Sun December 14, 1997, from 1:15 to 1:40 a.m at 12S road
near Mesita, SLV CO [50 miles north of 3:00 am sighting]   A large
object was seen by two witnesses slowly crossing the SLV, east to
west, from the Questa, NM, area north of Toas, NM, toward Chama, NM.
They estimated that it took 25 minutes to traverse approximately 50
miles.

The Musical Big Triangle
A little over an hour after the large slow-moving craft was observed,
that same Sun December 14, 1997, at 3:00 am., a witness about 2 miles
north of Center, CO. reported the following event in a letter I
received a couple of weeks later. I had not published the other
December 14 reports and the timing between the two events is uncanny.
Could the following be the large "light" that was seen crossing the
Valley at the CO/NM border?  The witness wrote: "I saw out my back
door one of those triangular UFO's hovering over the south field [of
the witnesses' ranch]. When I went outside to see it, it moved slowly
and hovered by the roof of the house and over by the silos. Then it
came back over  the house and a beam of white-blue light came out of
the middle and something was taken up in the beam. I couldn't see
what, but its shape was smallish. I was so scared I couldn't talk. It
played some kind of musical rhythm when the lights around the edge
flashed off and on. Let me know if anyone else saw anything." I called
her and told her of Paye's sighting and thanked her for her letter.

Another Alamosa River "Mute"
On Wednesday December 17, 1997, at 10:30 a.m., rancher Ron Gardiner
discovered a dead gelding 5 miles SW of Alamosa, CO, in the SLV.  The
animal was and was found lying on it's right side at the bottom of a
dry, 7 foot deep irrigation canal-channel. There was evidence of a
struggle i.e., broken chimisa bushes and thrashing marks, but besides
the unfortunate gelding's tracks, there were no other tracks present.
The carcass was still warm and the rancher estimated the animal was
killed and mutilated sometime around dawn.  This investigator made
an on-site visit Thursday the 18th after being contacted by the
rancher.  Three sets of incisional samples were obtained for
forensic testing and videotape and photos of the site were taken.
The horse was missing it's penis and an 8 inch circular patch of
hide behind the sheath-- which was intact.  The rear-end was neatly
cored out in a slightly elongated circle to a depth of 8 to 9
inches.  Eyes and tongue were intact.  No apparent scavenger interest
noted and two horses in the small herd seemed curious and unafraid of
the carcass.  The carcass did not bloat.  No downside incisions or
additional evidence noted by   the rancher, this investigator, or the
Sheriff's investigator, but a 5 inch shallow gash in the hide was
present on the neck.  Several drops, which appeared to be blood, were
found in snow about 60 feet away over the fence and across the road.
 Weather was very cold and windless and the temperature was just
below zero at approximate time of death. Again, as with the
November 30, 1997 Hooper case, dense fog was reported in the area the
evening the horse was evidently killed.

Big Bad Wolf Visits San Luis
Monday January 5, 1998, Three pigs were discovered, in a mutilated
condition, by two San Luis, CO ranchers. A local San Luis, CO., man
named Arnie contacted me with the following report: "I wanted to
follow up on our conversation regarding the pig mutilations. Upon
speaking the the man who discovered the carcass' it turns out there
were three mutilated pigs each about 100 to 150 pounds, white in
color and each with a cored out rectum and other round holes in the
abdomen.  Apparently they had been discovered three days before I saw
them. There were only two when I saw the on Thursday. Bob Green from
La Sierra Newspaper went out to take some photos with a digital
camera. You might check with him for prints. I think he will run a
story in his paper . . ."

A Couple of Points To Ponder
Like five other cases from the southern Alamosa County area since
1994, the horse was found on, or very near, the Alamosa River.  (NOTE:
The only measurable pollution near the SLV is located 23 miles up the
Alamosa River at the Summittville Mine Superfund Site.) This latest
"mutilation" report and the recent November 30, '97 calf death case
seem unusual.  The vast majority of San Luis Valley unusual animal
deaths (UADs) occur from last-frost to first-frost, during the warmer
months and rarely are hese deaths reported during cold sub-zero
nights.  This may be a new wrinkle. . .  Results of forensic testing
will be posted as soon as it's made available. Wednesday January 7,
1998, 5:45 pm to 3:00 am Farasita, CO  La Veta MOA Massive aerial
activity reported by fiver witnesses.  "Disco balls" shooting off
multi-colored light and smaller red lights.  Craft appeared to
criss-cross the Heurfano in a "grid-like pattern."  This activity
reportedly went on for several hours.  One witness told Dave Perkins
later, that he thought ". . .it was the end of the world!"  These
Huerfano sightings are being investigated by David Perkins.
SAME DAY
Thursday January 8, 1998 between 10 and 11am Huerfano County, La Veta
MOA Witness reported "20 to 30" jets criss-crosing the Huerfano in a
grid pattern, 25-year resident witness claimed this aerial manuevering
was "highly unusual," even in over the MOA. Six and a half hours
later, Thursday January 8, 1998, 5:20 pm, over the Baca Ranch, 2 miles
east of mile marker 93 on State Highway 17, two witnesses driving
north on 17 noticed a brightly blinking small light two miles to the
east of their location. They then observed a "150 foot diameter disc"
with a small, low cupola, light was on underside. Object was plainly
visible in dusk lighting. Appeared to be at "between 1500 to 2000 feet
" in altitude and traveling down the center of the SLV south by
southwest. One of the witnesses estimated the speed at between "500
and 600 mph." Two other cars on 17 may have also witnessed object.
Duration of sighting about "30 seconds."

The next day, Friday January 9, 1998, 5:20 pm, in Costilla County,
SLV CO., a witness e-mailed the following report Jan 10: "Just last
night my daughter and her friend and parent were coming home from
basketball practice and mentioned that on. . .". . .Thursday [Jan 8
'98] night [in Costilla County SLV CO] they noticed two lights
emanating from the sky in the approximate location where the
carcasses [of three pigs] were discovered. She mentioned this before
I told here about the discovery of the pigs." Sunday January 10,
1998, Huerfano County La Veta MOA.  More reports of unusual light
activity which are under investigation.

Here Come Those Sky Katchinas
Those pesky fireballs that have been reported here in the SLV for
decades inexplicably made a couple of dramatic appearances in January.
 I have a hunch these objects are somehow connected to subsequent
military activity reported in our area.

January 11, 1998, 12:15 am Front Range of Colorado
By Jim Hughes [Denver Post staff writer] Jan.-12 - 1998.  "A
mysterious object lit up the night sky up and down the Front Range
early Sunday then startled witnesses with a deafening explosion.
There was no official explanation about the object Sunday. Military
spokesmen denied the object was a military aircraft. Local scientists
speculated it could have been a meteor or an illegal firework . . ."
How interesting the January 11th Colorado object's glow, as it passed
over, was again a captured by the same security camera that caught
last year's "meteor" at the same location. And how interesting last
October's huge New Mexico/West Texas "meteor" occurred on the same
flight path--almost a year to-the-day-- from a similar object seen on
the same flight path last year.  Later in January, more fireballs
were reported.

Saturday January 11, 1998, at dusk Huerfano County, La
Veta MOA.  Again, reports of unusual light/craft activity. Tuesday
January 20, 1998, 6:00 pm -south of the Great Sand Dunes, a Hooper,
CO, resident reports to a friend watching a "big star doing some big
twists" over his friend's house.  The friend then called me at 7:30
and I contacted the witness and learned that the object/light was
flashing "red-green and blue." The nonchalant witness described the
multi-colored light as hovering for five or so minutes just south of
the Sand Dunes Oasis, where his friend lived. Both witnesses claimed
the object was not Sirius rising in the east. One claimed the
"object" was two times larger than the brightest planets, and was 5
degrees north of Sirius the heaven's brightest star, which he was
able to identify.  At around 6:15 pm, I happened to witness two low
flying jets headed from the east, over the Sangre de Cristos, south
toward the location where the light was observed. Jets were flying
under 3000 feet above the Valley floor. They were in close formation.

There Go Those Sky Katchinas
Odd parallels between recent Australian and Colorado Fireball events
seems to be developing.  Consider the following article written by
Harry Mason (who wrote a multi-part article called Bright Skies, for
Nexus Magazine).  This excerpt is re-printed w/ permission from "THE
STRANGE" February 16, 1998, a weekly Newsletter distributed by; Louise
A. Lowry  Taak46b@prodigy.com Weird Australian Fireball Events

"There have been many other post-May 1993 Australian reports (in
excess of 1000 often multiple events) concerning aerial fireballs and
associated light energy emission. These involve exotic diesel freight
train noise making spherical fireballs, and some noiseless variants,
flying long trajectories over different parts of Australia.  These
fireballs have been observed in all our states (as recently as the
4th. of February 1997), and in many cases have exhibited variations
on and combinations of the following actions: very low altitude "nap
of earth" trajectories, small to non-existent tails, no fragment drop
off, apparent velocity less than that of sound, no associated sonic
booms, considerable sudden change in course, speed up, stop dead,
reverse course, fly vertically upwards into space, create intense
vibration of ground and housing as they pass over, or explode in
massive blue-white arcing light displays with major explosive sound
events - or silent intense light flashes, create power generation
over-voltage outages and other electrical effects. The Banjawarn case
demonstrates a cause-effect relationship with a 3.9 Richter scale
earthquake and other fireballs have possibly been related on at least
two occasions to 3.0-4.0 richter scale earthquakes in eastern
Australia. If meteors are the source of these observations then
lately we appear to be continually encountering a very odd species of
meteor that exhibits a previously undocumented very exotic behaviour
and a very high statistical rate of arrival in Australia."'

Why would there be such an upsurge in fireball-type sightings in two
such divergent locations?  I have heard speculation that the Earth is
travelling through remnants of the Hale-Bopp comet tail, but I have
not seen conclusive proof of this theory mentioned anywhere analyzed

Colorado Fireball Questions
Tim Edwards, from Salida, sent me the following reports and article
re-print from the Denver Post.  Why are these fireballs continually
appearing in Australia and Colorado? "The following are the Salida
Colo. reports, and an article from the Denver post on the Jan. 27
events. As you can see objects were reported at numerous different
times at multiple location ranging about 250 miles away and from noon
Tues. and then at various times that night. How can meteors or debris
keep hitting the same general area over a 10-hour time-frame? A
question I'm going to ask The  Museum of Natural History in Denver
when I make a report. These are a frequent event in Colorado Getting
a little escalation lately of reports and increased military
activity. My 17 year old daughter Laray was sitting in the computer
room January 27, 1998 at 9:00, when she viewed a moon sized ball of
green light out of the south window [lights were on in the room] for
a couple of seconds moving at high speed and disappearing to the
southwest. At the same time my wife's sister [Kathy Rauter] and her 4
kids were driving to our house and viewed it down the road a half
mile to the south of our home. They also reported the same
description and said other people had to see it. No tail was observed
by any of the witnesses. They were extremely excited and some were
scared. I could tell by the reactions it was a major sighting. They
said it did not appear to be that far away. I just had got off the
computer and was upstairs reading a book so I missed the action
again. Laray also had viewed a green globe hovering and then shooting
down behind a ridge south of town this summer as well as multiple
reports by locals of orbs hovering and moving at high speed in the
area."

Several Report Seeing Its Blazing Path
By Stephanie Sylvester  The Denver Post-1-28-98 BRECKENRIDGE-
Several people saw a large fiery object trailed by a plume of smoke
crash to the ground near here about noon Tuesday.  "It was a fairly
large object that was on fire with smoke that was spiraling off the
back of it," said Blue River Marshal Steve Ford, who saw it from his
car near Blue River Road and Highway 9.  "My first thought was that it
was a meteor." Fork watched the object plummet more than a thousand
feet.  He lost sight of it at tree level. "It was a vertical shot
toward the ground, and I'm sure it impacted the ground," Ford said.
Leigh Pezzicara, a spokeswoman for the Breckenridge Ski Resort, said
several guests reported seeing a flare in the area of Peaks 5 and 6.
"However, we really can't confirm what it was," she said.    The
Summit County sheriff's office received two calls about the possible
meteor. James Rickman, a spokesman at the Los Alamos National
Laboratory, said the scientific term for an object like the one
described by Breckenridge eyewitnesses is "daytime fireball." Alma
resident John Fisher was in Breckenridge when he spotted the object.
According to Fisher, it created a visible trail that covered a quarter
of the sky from his vantage point as he drove north on Highway 9 near
the Breckenridge Building Center. Although no one saw where the object
landed, Ford believes it hit near Good Pasture Tarn, just south of
Breckenridge.  So far, no agencies have launched a search for the
object. Bill Steigerwald, spokesman for NASA's Goddard Space Flight
Center in Maryland, said the center has received a unusually high
number of reported meteor sightings this year. Steigerwald said if the
Breckenridge sighting wasn't a meteor, it could have been  "an
airplane, a piece of space junk or some kind of rocket test that went
astray." But most space junk burns up in the atmosphere, he said.

Hmmmmmmm



Christopher O'Brien
tmv@amigo.net
http://home.amigo.net/tmv







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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8

From: Masinaigan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:27:44 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:37:35 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8

     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 3, Number 8
February 22, 1998
Editor: Joseph Trainor

UFOs SWEEP ACROSS MAINE

     UFOs visited several towns in Maine, the largest
state in the USA's northeastern region, on Tuesday,
January 27, 1998, in an astounding one-night flap.
     A UFO visited Deer Island in Penobscot Bay, on
Maine's Atlantic Ocean coast, illuminating several
homes.
     Janet Stanley of Stonington, Me. (population 700),
a port town on the southern tip of the island, had just
turned on her TV set to watch President Clinton's
State of the Union speech.  As she entered the bathroom,
she "was startled by an immensely bright blue light that
came through the miniblinds on her west-facing window."
Opening the blinds, "she saw the western sky filled with
a deep bright blue (glow) with yellow vertical streaks
resembling lightning strikes."
     Nine miles to the north, in Little Deer Isle, Me.,
"Seth Harkness was watching the speech...at ten minutes
after nine (9:10 p.m.) when a blinding white light came
through the east-facing windows of his living room."
     In St. Agatha, Me., Pam Pelletier was taking her dog
for a walk when she "began hearing a series of huge sky
explosions, maybe 7 or 8 of them."  The incident took
place at 7:30 p.m.
     At 9:10 p.m., Grace Ouellette was at her home near
Long Lake in Madawaska, Me. (population 3,653), a town
on the Canadian border approximately 215 miles
(344 kilometers) north of Bangor when she spotted
"a large orange ball with white flashing lights."  At first
she thought it was a small plane about to crash at the
airport in nearby Frenchville (population 475).
     Across the St. Johns River, in St. Francois de
Madawaska, New Brunswick, Canada, Roger Bard
"reported that he had seen a ball of fire go down on the
American side of the river.  'It did not look like a falling
star,' he said."
     St. Francois de Madawaska is 213 miles
(341 kilometers) northwest of Fredericton, capital of
New Brunswick province.
     In Millinocket, Me. (population 6,922), a small city
69 miles (110 kilometers) north of Bangor, Ellen Cousins
"said she saw a bright orange streak as she looked
north at 7:30 p.m."
     Evelyn Robinson was driving on Interstate Highway 95
from Houlton (population 5,627) to Island Falls
(population 650) at 9:30 p.m. when she "spotted a huge
blue-green light streaking from east to west and leaving
sparks behind."
     "Robinson said, 'It was very fast, falling to the ground
at a 45 degree angle.  It was very startling and unnerved
me a bit.'"
     In Oakland, Me. (population 3,510), located on Maine
Highway 11 about 60 miles (100 kilometers) north of
Bangor, local police Officer Rick Stubbert "received a
report of something falling from the sky into McGrath
Pond...and planned to send divers out on Friday."
     Elsewhere in Oakland, Kelly Sirois and her father,
Ron Sirois, "heard loud explosions at 8:30 and at
10:30 p.m. that caused both to think that something
had impacted with their house."
     UFO phenomena were also reported in Deer Isle,
six miles (10 kilometers) north of Stonington, and in
Lincoln, Me. (population 3,399), a town on Highway 6
approximately 49 miles (78 kilometers) north of Bangor.
(See the Bangor Daily News for January 30, 1998,
"Witnesses see fireball in sky near Madawaska" and
"More witnesses report seeing bright-colored county
fireball."  Many thanks to Gordon J. Gianninoto for
these news stories.)
(Editor's Comment: Well, I guess we know what
Stephen King's next novel is going to be about.)

MORE UFO SIGHTINGS NEAR
PENSACOLA, FLORIDA

     A spherical silver UFO appeared repeatedly
over the Florida panhandle and southern Alabama
and was seen by dozens of eyewitnesses.
     In Gulf Breeze, Fla. (population 5,530), a resort
town seven miles (11 kilometers) south of Pensacola,
columnist Carole Baker of the Pensacola Beach
Islander was driving on Shoreline Road at 6:35 p.m.
on January 31, 1998 when she saw "not one but two
bright red objects low on the horizon to the east."
     Ms. Baker kept the objects in view for 90 seconds,
adding, "The two red objects had a distinctive shape.
Each central, large, ruby red light had adjacent to it
on either side one smaller red light...This was
suggestive to me of a ring-shaped configuration
which we have witnessed in this area many times
before."
     On Thursday, February 5, 1998, Vicki Lyons of
Pensacola, Fla. (population 58,165) experienced a
strange compulsion at 2:30 p.m.  "I suddenly
without any real reason began to think that I should
leave earlier."
     Getting in her car, Ms. Lyons drove west on
Interstate Highway 10 into Alabama.  As she neared
Elsanore, Ala. 16 miles (26 kilometers) west of
Pensacola, "All of a sudden, I watched streaking
across my windshield to the southwest a perfectly
round silver ball, so silver it looked like a sterling
silver perfect 'marble' in the sky."
     Ms. Lyons told CNI News that the UFO "looked
like an aspirin held at arm's length" and was about
one mile away  "It contrasted sharply against the
cloudless blue sky.  As I was looking at it and
pondering pulling off the interstate (highway), it
suddenly took off at tremendously fast speed and
crossed in front of me, over the interstate and off
to the north.  The speed of the object was
indescribable!  It was so spectacular that I screamed
in excitement when it flashed across in front of me."
     On Saturday, February 7, 1998, Christie Edwards
of Robertsdale, Ala., a town on Highway 90 about
27 miles (43 kilometers) southeast of Mobile,
videotaped the silver sphere as it hovered above
her house.
     Two days later, on Monday, February 9, 1998,
the UFO returned to Robertsdale.  Ms. Edwards said,
"It looks just like a bright light, but it's real big.  And
it looks like nothing I've ever seen before...a small,
circular-looking silver object against a blue sky."
     Fox Channel 10 TV aired the Edwards video
during their evening broadcast on February 9.
     On Wednesday, February 11, 1998, Pat Crumbley
and her husband Buddy were driving on Interstate
Highway 10 in Milton, Fla. (population 7,216) about
16 miles (26 kilometers) northeast of Pensacola when
she spotted the silvery UFO.
     "About 15 degrees off the horizon I saw a silver
ball-shaped object," Mrs. Crumbley reported.  "About
one-half inch (one centimeter) in diameter at arm's
length."  She was so startled that "it took a couple of
seconds to say, 'Buddy, look!'  As he turned to look, it
just disappeared."  (See CNI News, Volume 3, Number 24,
Part 1.  Many thanks to Mike Lindemann of CNI News
for letting UFO ROUNDUP quote from his news story.
See also Filer's Files #6 for 1998.  Many thanks to
George A. Filer of MUFON for the information.)

BLACK HELICOPTER STALKS
UFO OVER AN IOWA FARM

     On Monday, February 2, 1998, at 10 p.m., Susan
Landers, 50, her daughter Melissa Edgewick, 27, and
son Michael Landers, 20 were at the family farm near
Sioux City, Iowa (population 80,505) about 200 miles
(320 kilometers) east of Des Moines when Melissa
"heard the sound of jets but did not see them."  She
"then heard a high-pitched hum but did not locate
the source of the noise."
     "Next a dark-colored helicopter came over their
house at less than 50 feet altitude.  No markings were
observed.  Very large motor," reported Beverly Trout
of Iowa MUFON, who interviewed the family.
     "About 15 minutes later, the mother heard the
copter and stepped out onto her bedroom's second-
floor deck (balcony).  The copter was overhead, and
she could see its bottom and could feel vibration in
the house."
     Michael Landers, standing outdoors on the south
side of the house, "could feel the disturbance 'wind'
from the rotors.  At first, the copter was right over
their house."
     Susan Landers "described two white lights--one at
each end and a red light in the middle.  Since she was
aware of the green light requirement on aircraft, she
specifically looked for a green light.  There was none on
the copter."
     "After the copter left, all three watched through
binoculars a bright orange ball move from the east to
the southwest and then to the northwest of their
residence.  At one point, the ball stopped, then moved
back to the southwest."
     A week later, on Monday, February 9, 1998, at
11:45 a.m., Mrs. Landers and another son, Todd, 33,
were driving to Sioux City when they saw a strange
object hovering about a half-mile away.
     The UFO was "200 feet above a nearby hill" and
"perhaps at 500 feet altitude."  Both witnesses
described it as "a rectangular 'refrigerator' shaped
object, perhaps a little smaller than a mid-sized car."
     At first they thought they were "looking at the back
end of a helicopter, but they saw that it had no wings.
It was moving very fast and was a dull metallic gray
in color."
     Todd Landers described the UFO "as a refrigerator
laying horizontal," while his mother described "some
sort of energy bands coming from the top and bottom
of the object, each had extended outward for about
one-third the size of the object."
     The glow created a shimmering effect, which
Todd Landers described as "like looking through a fire."
     Five days later, on Saturday, February 14, 1998,
Michael Landers and Melissa Edgewick were returning
home at 9:30 p.m. when they spied a UFO they
described as "a 40-foot triangle" hovering above the road.
     The UFO "was at about a one-and-one-half telephone
pole in height" (33 feet or 10 meters--J.T.) above the road
with "three bright white flashing lights at each corner of
the triangle and a red light in the middle.  The object
moved from the east side of the road to the west side,
and at one point the bright light from the object
reflected on the nearby trees."  (Many thanks to
Beverly Trout of Iowa MUFON for these reports.)

TRUCKER VIDEOTAPES UFO
IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO

     On Saturday, February 14, 1998, truck driver
Bill Sauter of San Diego, California was driving his
rig on Interstate Highway 10 near Deming, New
Mexico (population 10,970) about 100 miles
(160 kilometers) west of El Paso, Texas.
     As he was listening to his CB radio, "he heard
talk about a strange object in the sky."
     Since he always carries a video camcorder with
him, Sauter pulled off the highway and stepped down
from the cab.  Spying the UFO over the desert, he
lifted his camcorder and began shooting footage.
     "It just picked up speed and--woosh--it was gone,"
Sauter told Channel 10 TV news in San Diego."  He
reportedly described it as "something out there that
was not a missile and wasn't a blimp.  It looked like
a (Boeing) 747 but without wings."
     Pictures of the UFO may be found at the San
Diego UFO Information homepage at this URL:
http://www.arroweb.com/n6rpf/sauter.html  (Many
thanks to Paul Cook for this news story.)

BLACK TRIANGULAR UFO
SPOTTED IN MICHIGAN

     On Thursday, February 5, 1998, at 7:45 p.m.,
high school senior Greg Parkins, 18, was driving
through Howell, Michigan (population 8,184),
located 57 miles (91 kilometers) west of Detroit,
when he spotted a strange object in the sky.
     He described the UFO as "a black triangular
object...heading west and paralleling Mason Road
and at an elevation of 55 to 60 degrees.  Noted
that the object had three real white blinking lights
at the three points (corners) of the triangle."
     Greg "pulled over to the side of the road to get
a better look" and estimated that "the object was the
size of a quarter held at arm's length...Although he
made a point of looking for them, no navigational
strobes--red, green or white--were seen at any time.
He estimated the speed of the object to be 60 miles
per hour."  (See Filer's Files #6 for 1998.  Many thanks
to George A. Filer of MUFON and Dave Parrish,
Michigan director of Skywatch International, for
this report.)

NEW UFO FLAP RATTLES
FOUR STATES IN AUSTRALIA

     February was an active month for UFOs in the
southern hemisphere, as well, with a new flap in
Australia.
     On Monday, February 9, 1998, at 9:50 p.m.,
"a dark triangular-shaped object with three
orange illuminations" appeared in the sky over
Geelong, Victoria (Vic.), a city 40 miles
(64 kilometers) west of Melbourne.  Witnesses
reported that "it traveled very slowly, slower than
an aircraft would fly" toward the Yan Yang Mountains
northwest of Geelong.
     Also, at 9:50 p.m. that night, in Blackwood,
South Australia (S.A.), witnesses reported seeing
"a very bright ball of white light. It appeared to pass
across the sky at about 20 to 25 degrees above the
northern horizon, heading west or northwest of
Adelaide.  Illumination flew straight and level."
     On Wednesday, February 11, 1998, at 10:05 p.m.,
people in Toodyay, Western Australia (W.A.) near
Perth saw "an object or illumination" come from the
east and move to a stationary position near the
moon.  "It came to a holding (hovering) position just
under the moon and changed colours.  It then
moved southward and changed direction.  It crossed
right overhead to the southwest of Perth in only
seconds."
     Minutes later, the UFO returned from the southwest,
again flew over Toodyay and headed east.  "It also
traveled extremely fast.  As the object traveled overhead
the first time, it appeared to stop at one point--rise
sharply up, then drop."
     Smaller lights appeared to revolve around the UFO.
A rumbling sound was heard following it.  One witness
reported, "Animals in the area--cockatoos, gallah sheep
and dogs--were going crazy."
     On Friday, February 13, 1998, at 9:22 p.m., witnesses
at Stones Corner in Brisbane, Queensland (Qnld.) "spotted
a bright point of light in the northern sky."  As they watched,
the UFO "exploded" into a bright circle of light that remained
for several seconds.  "The exploded illumination appeared
to be the size of an orange at arm's length.  It also did
appear to have an orange-red glow" that "was very bright
in the center."
     The same Friday night, at 9:35 p.m., witnesses in
Elstenwick, Vic., a suburb of Melbourne "sighted a
navy blue or black disc-shaped object hovering to the
northwest...The object looked like a Second World War
British battle helmet and it moved from side to side"
as it flew.  Witnesses had the UFO in view for five or
six minutes.
     On Saturday, February 14, 1998, the black disc
appeared again, this time over Queensland's Gold Coast.
The UFO, which "appeared to be a solid functioning
object, flew over at about 1,000 to 1,500 feet (altitude.)
This disc-shaped object heading due north and flew
on a straight and level course, its speed was slower than
a commercial airliner and was only sighted for one to
two minutes before disappearing."
     On Sunday, February 15, 1998, at 9:45 p.m.,
witnesses in the St. Mary's section of Sydney, New
South Wales (N.S.W.), Australia's largest city,
"saw two very bight orange fireball illuminations
crossing the sky underneath cloud" at about 3,600
feet altitude.  The UFOs came from the direction
of the RAAF Richmond air base "and they were
heading towards Liverpool or the (Australian) Army's
Hollsworthy base."  (Many thanks to Ross Dowe of
the Australia-New Zealand National UFO Hotline
for these reports.)

SAUCERS CONVERGE ON
NORTHERN BRAZIL

     Disc-shaped UFOs overflew Fortaleza, the largest
city in Brazil's Ceara state, and its suburbs three
times on Monday, February 16, 1998.
     Fortaleza is 1,760 kilometers (1,100 miles) north
of Rio de Janeiro.
     At 7:30 a.m., Neil Oliveiras Chagas spotted "a
white object in the form of two inverted trapezoids
with rounded edges and two blue lights."  Oliveiras
Chagas, an electrician by trade, grabbed his video
camcorder and shot footage of the UFO.
     At 5:20 p.m., Reginaldo Athayde, director-general
of Centro de Pesquisas Ufologicas do Ceara (CPU-CE),
a Brazilian UFO study group, while investigating the
morning's sighting, witnessed another UFO overflight
in Centro, Fortaleza's downtown district.
     According to Sr. Athayde, he "saw another object
in the sky of Centro, crossing the Rua Barrio de Rio
Branco and the Rua Pedro Pereira.  The object was
very big, with a spherical form," moving first to the
south and then heading east.  It was last seen
flying east over the South Atlantic.
    A disc-shaped OVNI (Portuguese acronym for UFO)
also appeared over the suburb of Cambeba, where it
was videotaped by a TV crew from Verdes Mares.
    At 6:30 p.m., "a luminous white point" was seen
overhead in Varjota, another suburb of Fortaleza.
     Saucers were also reported in Papicu, Messejana,
Parangaba and Barru de Ceara, all districts of
Fortaleza.
     Later in the evening, "an object of discoidal form"
was seen flying towards the South Atlantic from the
beach at Praia do Futuro.
     Sr. Athayde said, "We are going to analyze all
of the material collected."  (See the Brazilian newspaper
Jornal do Povo for February 17, 1998, "Objeto Nao
Identificado Sao Vistos Sobrevando Fortaleza."
Muito obrigado a Pedro Cunha por eso caso.)

CHILE TV NETWORK AIRS
VILLARICA UFO VIDEO

     On Saturday, February 14, 1998, Television
Nacional de Chile (TVN) aired an amateur video
of a UFO encounter that took place last
November.
     On November 24, 1997, Vicente Constant, 26,
and his family were driving to the Andes on
vacation.  They planned to visit Villarica volcano,
a tourist attraction 688 kilometers (430 miles)
south of Santiago de Chile, the national capital.
     As they neared the volcano, Vicente took out
his camcorder and began shooting footage of the
Chilean countryside.  Although they were in the
Andes at a relatively high altitude--1,600 meters
(5,280 feet, same as Denver, Colorado--J.T.), he
reported, "Suddenly we began feeling a heavy
pressure in the air."
     "While moving the camera around (from the
windshield to the right front window), just above
the volcano appeared a cigar-shaped object that
went from the upper right of the (view) screen to
the left part.  Then the object suddenly made a
turn and took off, heading toward the upper left
part of the screen.  The scene seemed like a UFO
entering Earth's atmosphere and then flying off.
This object left no trail."
     The videotape is being examined by Dr.
Rafael Vera Mege of the University of Concepcion.
A request to view and examine the tape has been
made by Agrupacion de Investigaciones Ovniologicas
(AION), Chile's famous UFO study group.  (Muchas
gracias a Luis Sanchez Perry para esas noticias.)

from the UFO Files...

1942: ARMY GUNNERS FIRE AT
          UFOs OVER LOS ANGELES

     On Wednesday, February 25, 1942, at precisely 2 a.m.,
diners at the trendy Trocadero club in Hollywood were
startled when the lights winked out and air raid sirens
began to sound throughout greater Los Angeles.
     "Searchlights scanned the skies and anti-aircraft
guns protecting the vital aircraft and ship-building
factories went into action.  In the next few hours they
would fire over 1,400 shells at an unidentified, slow-
moving object in the sky over Los Angeles that looked
like a blimp, or a balloon."
     Author Ralph Blum, who was a nine-year-old boy
at the time, wrote that he thought "the Japanese were
bombing Beverly Hills."
     "There were sirens, searchlights, even antiaircraft
guns blamming away into the skies over Los Angeles.
My father had been a balloon observation man (in the
AEF) in World War One, and he knew big guns when
he heard them.  He ordered my mother to take my
baby sisters to the underground projection room--our
house was heavily supplied with Hollywood
paraphernalia--while he and I went out onto the
upstairs balcony."
     "What a scene!  It was after three in the morning.
Searchlights probed the western sky. Tracers
streamed upward.  The racket was terrific."
     Shooting at the aerial intruders were gunners
of the 65th Coast Artillery (Anti-Aircraft) Regiment
in Inglewood and the 205th Anti-Aircraft Regiment
based in Santa Monica.  The "white cigar-shaped
object" took several direct hits but continued on its
eastward flight.
     Up to 25 silvery UFOs were also seen by
observers on the ground.
     Editor Peter Jenkins of the Los Angeles
Herald Examiner reported, "I could clearly see the
V formation of about 25 silvery planes overhead
moving slowly across the sky toward Long Beach."
     Long Beach Police Chief J.H. McClelland
said, "I watched what was described as the second
wave of planes from atop the seven-story Long
Beach City Hall.  I did not see any planes but the
younger men with me said they could.  An
experienced Navy observer with powerful Carl
Zeiss binoculars said he counted nine planes in
the cone of the searchlight.  He said they were
silver in color.  The (UFO) group passed along from
one battery of searchlights to another, and under
fire from the anti-aircraft guns, flew from the
direction of Redondo Beach and Inglewood on the
land side of Fort MacArthur, and continued toward
Santa Ana and Huntington Beach.  Anti-aircraft
fire was so heavy we could not hear the motors
of the planes."
     Reporter Bill Henry of the Los Angeles Times
wrote, "I was far enough away to see an object
without being able to identify it...I would be willing
to bet what shekels I have that there were a
number of direct hits scored on the object."
     At 2:21 a.m., Lt. Gen. John L. DeWitt issued
the cease-fire order, and the twenty-minute
"battle of Los Angeles" was over.
(See BEYOND EARTH: MAN'S CONTACT WITH
UFOs by Ralph Blum, Bantam Books, New York,
April 1974, page 68.  See also the Los Angeles
Times, the Los Angeles Herald-Examiner and the
Long Beach Press-Telegram for February 25, 1942.
All newspaper quotes taken from "The Battle of
Los Angeles, 1942" by Terrenz Sword, which
appeared in Unsolved UFO Sightings, Spring 1996
issue, pages 57 through 62.)
(Editor's Comment:  Maybe the gang at the Black
Vault could use the Freedom of Information Act to
get the Army's Situation Reports for February 25,
1942 for the 65th and 205th A.A. Regiments.
Wouldn't that be interesting reading!)

FUN UFO WEBSITES
      A 1988 UFO photo is available at this site,
http://www.debshome.com/PilotsIncredibleSighting.html
     Marianne Timmer of the Netherlands
reportedly shot a photo of a UFO over the
Olympic Games at Nagano, Japan last
week.  Check it out at this URL:
http://www.members.xoom.com/marianne_timmer
     Don't miss the San Diego UFO Information
homepage at http://www.arroweb.com/n6rpf/sauter.html
     As always, there are plenty of things to
see at our parent homepage, UFO INFO.
Drop in at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/
     Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can
be accessed at our website.  Feel free to
browse around at http://www.digiserve.com/ufoinfo/roundup/

     Today is the birthday (February 22, 1857)
of Heinrich Rudolf Hertz, who can rightly be
called the grandfather of radio, television and
the Internet.  To say nothing of the way he
revolutionized the science of astronomy.
Happy birthday, Heinrich!

     We'll be back next Sunday with more saucer
news from "the paper that goes home--UFO
ROUNDUP."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1998 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites
or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue in which the item first appeared.







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1998 >
   Feb > Feb 22

                 Re: UFOR: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:46:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:51:56 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOR: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years

In message <3.0.5.32.19980221121605.008a3d50@mail.globalserve.net>, UFO
UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> writes
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:55:55 -0500 (EST)
>From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
>Subject: UFOR: Articulo Csuistica OVNI P.R. (fwd)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>
>
>From: Jorge Mart=EDn <jmartin@coqui.net>
>
>Important Aspects of the UFO / Alien Situation in Puerto Rico
>
>By Jorge Martin
>UFO Researcher - Puerto Rico
>C. 1992, Puerto Rico. All rights reserved by Jorge Martin.
>Procedence: UFOR
Hi Jorge

Thank you for a very interesting report.

 I am glad to see that some very unusual and exciting things are
happening somewhere other than North America. :-)

Seriously, with the way some people rant and rave you would be forgiven
to think that only the wierdest and oddest things happened in the U.S.
of A.

I don't mean to slander our American cousins but other things do happen
elsewhere than their homeland and your report shows clearly that there
are other places in the world where stories too strange to be fiction
are being told of things that have happened to the people that live
there.

--
        Are you a man or a mouse, come on squeek up!
                       Sean Jones
          reply to--sean@tedric.demon.co.uk
Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
        Research page --http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








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   Feb > Feb 22

                     Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:00:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:12:09 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8


> From: Masinaigan@aol.com [Joseph Trainor]
> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:27:44 EST
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8

>      Pictures of the UFO may be found at the San
> Diego UFO Information homepage at this URL:
> http://www.arroweb.com/n6rpf/sauter.html

This URL doesn't seem to work, and neither does the same one, with the
final filename excluded.  Any ideas?
--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
ICQ Pager 6797092







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   Feb > Feb 22

                    Re: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years

From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:56:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:10:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years

> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:46:02 +0000
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOR: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years

> >Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:55:55 -0500 (EST)
> >From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org>
> >Subject: UFOR: Articulo Csuistica OVNI P.R. (fwd)
> >To: updates@globalserve.net


> >From: Jorge Mart=EDn <jmartin@coqui.net>

> >Important Aspects of the UFO / Alien Situation in Puerto Rico

> >By Jorge Martin
> >UFO Researcher - Puerto Rico
> >C. 1992, Puerto Rico. All rights reserved by Jorge Martin.
> >Procedence: UFOR

> Hi Jorge

> Thank you for a very interesting report.

>  I am glad to see that some very unusual and exciting things are
> happening somewhere other than North America. :-)

> Seriously, with the way some people rant and rave you would be forgiven
> to think that only the wierdest and oddest things happened in the U.S.
> of A.

Sean, don't even start.  Someone very innocently made the same
statement a few weeks ago (where were you?) and it resulted in the
submission of hundreds of non-U.S. sightings reports to this list.

[Hundreds? (where was _I_? Non-U.S.? This _Canadian_ List goes
 world-wide -- ebk]

No one believes these things happen only in the U.S., and if you read
any of the UFO newsletters on the Net, it's abundantly clear.
--

Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
ICQ Pager 6797092








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   Feb > Feb 23

                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: RGates8254@aol.com [Robert Gates]
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:21:22 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 06:49:58 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


>  Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:48:31 -0500
>  To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>  From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>  Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

<brevity snip>

>  Robert,

>  Those who have paid attention will note that I said it would take
>  a minimum of five years to prove/disprove the AA film.

>  I've said many times that this may turn out to be Ufology's
>  Zapruder film, which is still debated hotly more than 30 years
>  after the fact.

>  Bob

Bob,

Speaking of that have you heard some of the 1990's latest theorys
on the Z film.  People that follow the Kennedy assassination  are
now claiming --based upon their interpretation of the evidence,
artifacts and what not. That the Z film was tampered (frames
missing, film altered etc) with at the National Photographic
Interpretation Center on the night of the assassination.

Wouldn't that be a hoot if somebody came up with a like minded
theory about the Santilli film.

Cheers,
Robert







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   Feb > Feb 23

                             UFO*BC Information

From: UFO*BC <pengilly@axionet.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:18:04 GMT
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 06:42:37 -0500
Subject: UFO*BC Information


************************************************************
From time to time, UFO*BC sends out a group e-mail to let
people know about upcoming lectures, changes to the website
and interesting UFO tidbits. If you do not wish to be on
this group list, please let us know and we will gladly remove
your name.
************************************************************

1) "Sightings On The Radio" - http://www.sightings.com

UFO*BC will be doing their monthly radio broadcast this
Tuesday - February 24th, from 7 pm to 10 pm (PST). Although
you might not find it on your radio dial, you can always
listen live by going to the Sightings website. If you are
busy that night you can listen to it another time by going
to their archived files. This month UFO*BC will be taking a
look at some of the Historical cases from British Columbia,
including the amazing 1952 flap.

2) UFO*BC Website - http://www.ufobc.org

Please check out the latest addition to our website - a
Guestbook!! Roger did an excellent job with this. Not only
can people read all the old messages and submit new messages,
but all the directors immediately get the message forwarded
to them. Please leave us a message!! We know that you all
have been holding back with your lavish praise for far too
long (we do accept suggestions and minor criticisms).

We recently received a report from a former Commander in
the Canadian military. He writes about an amazing sighting
he had while on aboard the "HMCS Iroquois", travelling from
Pearl Harbour to Guam, in 1952. This report, along with an
excellent drawing, is our new "Feature Article". Check it out.

We finally have some new entries on our "Coming Events"
page. Chad Deetken, of Pacific Research, will be giving a
slideshow/lecture entitled : "Crop Circles, Ley Lines &
Sacred Sites of England". The location will be at the
H.R. MacMillan Planetarium, in Vancouver, on Saturday,
March 21, 1998. UFO*BC highly recommends this lecture, as
Chad is an excellent speaker and Crop Circle expert. UFO*BC
and Dorothy Izatt will be giving a joint slideshow/lecture
at the Planetarium on Saturday, April 4, 1998. UFO*BC will
be talking about their latest cases, accompanied by some
very interesting slides. Dorothy will show a collection of
her unusual "lightform" photographs. Her work has baffled
photographic professionals and the most respected psychic
researchers from around the world. For more information
please visit our "Events" page at:
http://www.ufobc.org/events.htm

********************************************************
UFO*BC is always eager to hear about unusual B.C. sightings,
both past and present. Please contact us if you have a story
to tell, or come across one in an old magazine or newspaper.
Our e-mail address is contactus@ufobc.org and our Hotline
number is 604-878-6511.
********************************************************

If you have comments please e-mail me at:
david@ufobc.org

Thank you,
Dave Pengilly,
UFO*BC









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   Feb > Feb 23

                   Chat with Lynne Bishop, Abductee/Author

From: "Yvonne Hedenland" <vonni_h@email.msn.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:40:14 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:37:16 -0500
Subject: Chat with Lynne Bishop,  Abductee/Author

The Road Less Travelled?
The candid story of an Abductee.

Please join the UFO Forum and special guest Lynne
Bishop on Tuesday, February 24, 6pm PT.  Bishop's
goal to educate the public regarding the alien
presence and abduction phenomenon has led her to
both write and speak about the subject in public and
private forums.

This chat is available at http://forums.msn.com/ufo

The Briefing Room chat can be accessed by any IRC
client. The chat server name is publicchat.msn.com
and the room or channel name is #briefing.












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   Feb > Feb 23

                     Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8

From: "WHITE" <mjawhite@digitaldune.net> [John White]
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 06:17:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:43:49 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8

Skye,   (ebk, list, et al.,)

>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:00:46 -0800
>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8


>> From: Masinaigan@aol.com [Joseph Trainor]
>> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:27:44 EST
>> To: updates@globalserve.net
>> Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8

>>      Pictures of the UFO may be found at the San
>> Diego UFO Information homepage at this URL:
>> http://www.arroweb.com/n6rpf/sauter.html

>This URL doesn't seem to work, and neither does the same one, with the
>final filename excluded.  Any ideas?
>--

>Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>ICQ Pager 6797092



Skye:

The URL works by spelling out "arrow"......

http://www.arrowweb.com/n6rpf/sauter.html

The page starts out with a story about a truckdriver
named "Sauter" who had a sighting in Deming, NM.

Best to all

John White









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   Feb > Feb 23

                         Reward of a Million Dollars

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:32:16 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:04:00 -0500
Subject: Reward of a Million Dollars


I dunno if Errol still permits any ACC-related postings. [On very
occasions..--ebk]  If so, and any of you UFO investigators have
any "deep-black" contacts who could $1 million dollars, you might
point them at this ACC page:

               http://www.accpc.com/openreward.htm

For what its worth,
  -Brian Cuthbertson







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                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:49:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:58:15 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:41:30 -0500
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Bob Shell <bob@bobshell.com>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:10:50 -0500
>>THE GARDEN OF EDEN

[...]

>Just a point of fact.  Ray Santilli does not make any money
>from our CD ROM.  He gave us permission to use the still images
>on it at no charge.  Same with the Beyond Roswell book.  He makes
>nothing on it.



Bob and List,

This example of Mr Santilli's cruisade for truth just knocked me off
my chair, although I doubt he would have reacted in the same way
towards a piece of work titled:

"The ins and outs of the AA fraud"

The "Beyond Roswell" book and the CD are, for Mr Santilli, free,
direct promotion.  You should have had it the other way around:
charge him for the two works.

One thing gets cleared up though: a couple of months ago, there
was a thread here on who has the rights on the AA stuff.  It now
seems that you have answered the question: Mr Santilli is the
main owner of the film(s).  Guess the one who sold it to him must
be biting his nails.


Serge Salvaille


"Who is the more foolish, the fool or his followers ?"








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                   Re: UFOSEARCH #16: UFO History; Part VI

From: "Val Germann" <vhg@socket.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:20:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:13:03 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOSEARCH #16: UFO History; Part VI

UFOSEARCH #16: UFO History; Part VI

Val Germann
Columbia, Missouri

McDonald vs. Condon

In looking at how the Condon Commission was set up and handled it
is obvious that the same technique was used vis-=E0-vis UFOs as was
done in relation to the effects of fallout here in the United
States.  That is, after the Castle/Bravo test in the Pacific, the
one that irradiated the Japanese fishing boat and killed a
crewman, the AEC was in constant damage control.

When the going got really rough, before the 1956 elections, a
prestigious panel was set up by the National Academy of Sciences
to "study" the issue.  Lewis Strauss, the former investment
banker and chairman of the Rockefeller Foundation, who just
happened to be chairman of  the AEC at this time, stated that he
would let the "unbiased" NAS make the call on fallout in the
United States.  However, we know now that the NAS was in fact
dominated by the "bomb group" and allowing them to rule on
fallout was giving the foxes the key to the chicken house with an
engraved invitation.  But no one in our "free press" caught on to
what was happening.

The Robertson Committee was the same kind of thing, its members
all veterans of Secret Science, hip deep in deception.  They,
too, were called an "unbiased" group and then later, when the
report became public, were said to have been "misled" by the CIA.
 What a laugh.  Robertson, Alvarez and Berkner, in particular,
were totally immersed in secret weapons projects for the CIA and
the military, and had been for many, many years. You know, the
funding agency could have come out here to Missouri and found
someone truly unbiased, couldn't they have?  Yes.  But they
didn't, did they?  No, they picked people who knew how to keep a
secret and had been dealing with the agency for years.  Case
closed.

Several years ago Jacques Vallee published an account of what he
called the Pentacle memo, which he said proved that there had
been a large-scale secret investigation of UFOs before 1953.
This became an item in ufologly, for a little while.  Some people
said they were surprised.  As for me, wasn't at all  surprised,
having already closely read Ruppelt and found out that there had
been several secret investigations, starting in 1947!  What was
the big deal?   Had everyone been asleep for the last 45 years?
Apparently so.

In any event, the man put in charge of the late 1960s UFO
whitewash was Edward Condon, a first-class scientist who had
worked on the bomb and was a former head of the Bureau of
Standards.  He was also about to retire, in much the same way as
the issuer of a recent Air Force report on Roswell was said to
"retire."  But no matter, Condon was at the end of his career and
he spared no expense to ridicule and deny UFOs and all associated
phenomena, activities that had no effect on his ultimate judges,
the NAS and the press.  They all fell into line like magnetic
filings in the field of Klystron and the whole report went down
like butter.

Was this UFO assignment a 'punishment' for Condon?  I wonder
about this because back in the 1950s Condon was one of the few
'real scientists' who spoke out at all concerning the atomic
tests and their resultant fallout. For his trouble he was again
called a 'pink,' as he had been called during the height of the
McCarthy years, when he was actually investigated for leftish
leanings.  What do you want to bet that Condon was actually a
member of some of those 'secret investigations,' perhaps even
dating back into World War II and the 'foo fighters?'  It's
certainly possible.

And look at McDonald, a top atmospheric scientist who came into
his own just as those nuclear tests were hitting their stride.
And McDonald had some top-secret Navy programs on his resume when
he died.  I rather imagine he knew something about that fallout
problem but I don't have any information on whether or not he
(McDonald) spoke out against the tests, as Condon did.    But
McDonald ripped into Condon after the UFO report came out,
shredding both him and Hynek, accusing them both of scientific
incompetence on a grand scale.  Hovering over the whole affair,
to me, as I was reading more and  more about it in the late
1980s, was a miasma of bad consciences, of acrimony, of a
personal nature.   What axes did Condon and McDonald have to
grind with each other, I wonder?  Could UFOs have been only one
of them?

(more later)

***










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                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:05:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:54:47 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site
>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:49:54 -0500

[. . .]

>Bob and List,

>This example of Mr Santilli's cruisade for truth just knocked me off
>my chair, although I doubt he would have reacted in the same way
>towards a piece of work titled:

>"The ins and outs of the AA fraud"

>The "Beyond Roswell" book and the CD are, for Mr Santilli, free,
>direct promotion.  You should have had it the other way around:
>charge him for the two works.

While it can be said that Ray benefits indirectly from the the
book and CD, he hasn't attempted to market his "film" recently,
and I'm not convinced that he is making much of anything from it
at this point.  In his interview with Philip Mantle, it is
apparent that he believes that he really failed to profit as much
as he should have from the release of the "Second Autopsy".
Of course, that's a matter of debate.

>One thing gets cleared up though: a couple of months ago, there
>was a thread here on who has the rights on the AA stuff.  It now
>seems that you have answered the question: Mr Santilli is the
>main owner of the film(s).  Guess the one who sold it to him must
>be biting his nails.

>Serge Salvaille


I'm not sure you can ignore the financial backer, Volker
Spielberg, who allegedly financed Ray's entry into this genre.
But certainly Ray has a large voice in how the "film" is
distributed.

Steve








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                   List Hiatus February 24 - March 4, 1998

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:53:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:53:15 -0500
Subject: List Hiatus February 24 - March 4, 1998



One of the drawbacks about my 'task' is that it takes up a huge
amount of time and resources with little or no financial reward.
Therefore, when 'the call' comes to replenish the fund, I
respond, especially when the job is somewhere warm and sunny.
Despite El Nino's effects, it's still winter in Canada, which is
usually akin to winter in Siberia!

So, with a heavy heart, knowing how some readers will be utterly
lost without their UpDates,[;^}] I have to announce that this
List will be off-line as of 20:00hrs (-0500) today, Tuesday,
February 24 until the afternoon of Thursday, March 4.

Mahalo,

Errol Bruce-Knapp





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                     Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:25:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:42:56 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 3, Number 8

>From Larry Hatchre:  Deming,NM  video  ( see below )

> >>      Pictures of the UFO may be found at the San
> >> Diego UFO Information homepage at this URL:
> >> http://www.arroweb.com/n6rpf/sauter.html

> >This URL doesn't seem to work, and neither does

> >the same one, with the final filename excluded.  Any ideas?
> >--

> >Skye Turell <turel33@west.net  ICQ Pager 6797092

> Skye:   The URL works by spelling out "arrow"......

> http://www.arrowweb.com/n6rpf/sauter.html

> The page starts out with a story about a truckdriver
> named "Sauter" who had a sighting in Deming, NM.

> Best to all    John White

I found the site and the page, but NO VIDEO is shown!
Not a single frame.

-LH









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                          UFO News International 35

From: Henny van der Pluijm <hvdp@worldonline.nl>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:50:15 +0100 (MET)
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:56:10 -0500
Subject: UFO News International 35

  __    _    _____    ______         ___________________________
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  ||    |   ||___    ||     |        | \ | |___  \ /\ /  |___
  ||    |   ||       ||     |        |  \| |___   \__/       |
   \____/   ||       ||_____/       ___________   __________/
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            /_\                                   /_\
               \   |I|n|t|e|r|n|a|t|i|o|n|a|l|   /
                \  ___________________________  /
                 \____________/\______________ /


=FF                          - 35 -

*    NSA spies on the world
     -   Echelon collects electronic data, also for economic purposes

*    Jack's jackpot
     -   ACC offers $ 1 million reward for wherabouts Roswell UFO

*    ACC's Grand Strategy
     -   Jack Shulman: 'One bomb shell per month'

*    Light stuff

*    About this newsletter

     __________________________________________________

                - UFO News International 35 -


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

For direct subscriptions, send your e-mail address to:
                        hvdp@worldonline.nl

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


************************************************************
NSA spies on the world
************************************************************

- Echelon collects electronic data, also for economic
purposes


Japanese trade delegations, Amsterdam bank offices
and airport terminals in Palermo have one thing
in common: they are electronically monitored by
the American spy network Echelon. By routinely tapping
into Intelsat satellite traffic the Echelon system,
owned and operated by the US National Security Agency
(NSA), is capable of intercepting millions of telephone,
fax and Internet messages.

These are the conclusions of a report published
by an investigative committee of the European Union.
With advanced search software and speech recognition
technology, the NSA scans telephone conversations
and written messages for key words. The data collected
in Europe are transmitted via British NSA bases,
such as Menwith Hill, to NSA headquarters in Fort
Mead, Maryland.

The report 'An appraisal of technologies of political
control', assembled by the British research bureau
Omega, was written for the European Directorate
General Research. The report estimates the current
annual NSA budget at eight billion dollar, more
than the CIA budget.

The NSA prides itself of employing the best cryptographers
in the world to decipher all kinds of encrypted
electronic messages. They use techniques like statistical
methods, neural networks and genetic algorithms.
The data collected are not exclusively used in the
interest of national security, but also for economic

purposes. British, Canadian, Australian and New
Zealand intelligence agencies cooperate with the
NSA on a regular basis. NSA bases are located near
Alice Springs (Australia), Bad Aibling (Germany),
Misawa (Japan) and Menwith Hill (UK). Last autumn
the USA launched the spy satellite Trumpet that
had a size larger than a football field. The capabilities
of this satellite are classified, but its builder
Hughes also produces a commercial satellite one
tenth the size of the Trumpet that can relay 16,000
telephone conversations simultaneously.


************************************************************
Jack's jackpot
************************************************************

- ACC offers $ 1 million reward for wherabouts Roswell
UFO

An open letter to the president of the United States

American Computer Company
6 Commerce Drive, 2nd Floor, Cranford, N.J. 07016

February 23rd, 1998
DELIVERED BY PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT
HON. PRESIDENT WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON
THE WHITE HOUSE
1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE NORTHWEST
WASHINGTON, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 20500-0001

Dear Mr. President:

In a recent appearance, you told a citizen of the
Russian Republic, a youngperson, that there was
no "UFO" that landed near Roswell, N.M. in 1947. Then,
speaking more frankly, you admitted that you tried
to find out, andthat the Defense Department either
didn't or wouldn't tell you. I think my point to
you that this issue is one of those issues that
couldpotentially unite our fragmented world together,
is well taken by the younglady's question in that
far off land.

For the Record: all of us, at ACC (and I think a
very large number of Americans) who believe this
entire issue is still an open question, STRONGLY
RECOMMEND YOU CHANGE YOUR OFFICIAL PUBLIC POSITION
ON THE QUESTION OF WHETHERTHE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT,
THE PENTAGON AND THE AIR FORCE, HAVE A SPACE CRAFTOF
EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL ORIGIN. SEVERAL NOTED PERSONS
FORMERLY EMPLOYED BY THE US GOVERNMENT WOULD DISAGREE
WITH WHAT YOU SAID TO THAT LITTLE RUSSI ANGIRL!

In support of this end, the American Computer Company
is offering a reward to the Public as set forth
here.

The American Computer Company hereby offers a $1,000,000
REWARD to the first person who provides us confidential
information which leads to the exposure of the whereabouts
and leads to the public viewing of an Extra-Terrestrial
Space Craft, that is: a Space Craft or other Flying
Object designed and built by other than Humans or Human
employed robotic devices, such as may be in the possession
of the United States Department of Defense, the United
States Army, United States Air Force, The Pentagon, or
any other Agency or Organization of the United States
Government.


Said reward is to be paid upon formal verification
by Public Auditors employed by the American Computer
Company, and General Public viewing of the Craft.
Excluded from the right to collect this reward are
all employees of the American Computer Company and
their families, and any person for whom such a reward
would be prohibited by law.
Mr. Clinton, we politely remind you of your OATH
OF OFFICE, in which youagreed to uphold the Laws
of the United States of America, one of which laws
PROHIBITS YOU FROM LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.


Sincerely,
Jack A. Shulman
President
American Computer Company

http://american-computer.com:
(c)Copyright 1998 American Computer Company.


************************************************************
ACC's Grand Strategy
************************************************************


- Jack Shulman: 'One bomb shell per month'

Journalist Pat McCartney of the Lake Tahoe Tribune
interviewed Jack Shulman of American Computer Co.
last January.

'Personally, I find their story, and Philip Corso's,
pointing to an unexpected direction of UFO research,
namely the private sector. I think you will find
Shulman's goals as interesting as I did. Unfortunately,
there doesn't seem to be much of a way to speed
the process up, unless you can help with their research.

I will be writing about ACC and Corso spoiling Bell
Labs' 50th anniversary of the transistor for my
paper, so if anyone has an informed and opinionated
comment they'd like to share, you can e-mail me
or call me at the Trib (530-542-8012).
As others have described, interviewing Shulman is
quite an experience. He's extremely voluble, and
you really have to work to break in and ask a question
or redirect his monologue.

Having said that, he's also quite friendly, very
open to a point, and fluent about computers in a
way I can only envy. We spoke for more than 90 minutes,
when he returned a call I left in the morning asking
to talk to someone about the company's Roswell

page.

My main interest was to see what kind of care and
research they are exercising with regards to the
"lab shopkeeper's notebook" they acquired that kicked
off their current "investigation."

If their claim -- that the notebook is evidence
that Bell Lab's 1947 "discovery" of the transistor
was based on their receiving debris from a crashed
saucer -- proves to be true, than this document
may come as close to being the smoking gun as anything

we could wish.

When you think about it, it only makes sense that
such documents would surface in the private sector,
which by definition is not under the direct control
of the federal government. And, as much evidence
suggests, unacknowledged programs have been privatized
to a large degree over the years.

Following are points he made about the documents,
in answer to my questions.

 1) The notebook bears the "eyes only" security
stamp of the then-War Department, along with the
printed names of Bell Labs and General Electric.

 2) Shulman said the notebook wasn't a hardbound
diary, but rather a ring binder with individual
pages and reports. Some of the reports are typed,
others are mimeographed or handwritten.

 3) If I followed him correctly, the consultant's
initial acquisition of a journal came from the "estate
of the deceased shopkeeper."

 4) The unnamed consultant then somehow acquired
28 boxes of supporting material, perhaps from inside
Bell Labs was the implication, but he did not specify
how. Shulman first said each box contained 300 pages
-- which would be under 10,000 in all -- but described
the complete collection as 20,000 pages!

 5) The old cardboard boxes are rotting and some
of the papers in terrible condition. They smell
to high heaven, Shulman said. His staff wear masks
and gloves while working with the documents, and
are using sealants and plastics to restore and protect
the pages.

 6) Because of the instability of the decaying pages,
the investigators have photographed, rather than
photocopied them.

 7) Age analysis (unspecified) has confirmed the
age of the paper as being from early 1940s to 1947,
indicating it was written on different stores of
paper.

 8) A university forensics expert (unnamed) is analyzing
the style of the reports for inconsistencies and
other information.

Shulman told me the company is planning some kind
of public event within 90 days, publicizing what
it has learned about the shopkeeper's notebook,
and the revolutionary ideas that it may contain.
He was very vague about what he planned to disclose,
and I simply advised him to go with a hired gun
public relations firm that could get the attention
of the mainstream media.

During our dialogue, Shulman said his Grand Strategy
is to force the government to make its own disclosure
by releasing top secret information from the notebook
and supporting documents at a rate of one bombshell
a month.

"Let's say there are 600 such details in all," Shulman
said. "We can release one a month for 50 years,
devastating military secrecy, until they realize
the public losses are so great that they will have
to throw in the towel."

He identified the transcapacitor, announced Dec.
5, and the photonitron, announced Jan. 4, as the
first two exposes. I did not ask about future announcements.

He said he has given representatives of the major
players, including the Air Force, National Security
Agency, Army Intelligence and Office of Special
Investigations a certain (unspecified) deadline
to come forth, or he will upload the entire collection
of 20,000 pages of documents onto the Internet.

"If they don't prove the case of Roswell, we'll
go public," Shulman said. Shulman describes himself
as a patriot who isoutraged by the action of his
government (and its contractors). Today's political
leaders, and other keepers-of-the-secret, "have

inherited a responsibility that is outside Constitutional

authority," he said.

In other words, no matter what the original need
was to hide information about the Roswell crash,
the government now has an obligation to reveal it.

"I think the answer to Roswell is apparent," Shulman
said. "I think the answer needs to be disclosed,
and the government needs to own up to it." Shulman
said he has made certain his plan to release the
material will not be affected if he is harmed or
thwarted in some other way. "We set up a mechanism,
a process that will outlast me," he said.

He was not so helpful in steering me to people knowledgable
about the notebook or the transcapacitor who are
independent of the American Computer Co., or who
have not signed non-disclosure agreements. I will
have to scrape to get comments from other insiders.

That's the gist of Shulman's remarks. He is a meteoric
speaker, much given to sprinting away on a tangent
until reined in. Someone who knows more about computers,
or the companies and agencies he talked about, might
have gleaned more than I from the conversation,
but, as I say, interviewing Jack Shulman is a challenge.
You'd need at least a weekend to debrief him. At
the end, he was even trying to give me computer
advise when I mentioned my love/hate relationship
with computers.

I plan to do more interviews before writing a piece
for my paper within the next two weeks.

I can hardly wait for the ACC story to unfold. The
proof, of course, will be in the successfull operation
of the devices the notebook, but at least we won't
have to wait until the transcapacitor to go into
production to learn more.'


************************************************************
Light stuff
************************************************************

Via Skye Turrell

When a cat is dropped, it always lands on its feet,
and when toast is dropped, it always lands with
the buttered side facing down. I propose to strap
buttered toast to the back of a cat; the two will
hover, spinning inches above the ground. With a
giant buttered cat array, a high--speed monorail could
easily link New York with Chicago.


************************************************************
About this newsletter
************************************************************

I recently accepted a full time job as a project
editor for the launching of a new magazine, unrelated
to the UFO subject. Thisnewsletter will suffer somewhat
in frequency and quality. Please bear with me.

-- HvdP

=FF
You can use UFO News International articles


. Make a selection from this issue for your web site.

. Redistribute articles in your owns newsletter or Bulletin Board
System.

Conditions:

. Please give credit to UFO News International and, if relevant,
to the original source.

. Articles may not be used for the express purpose of baseless
debunking. Baseless debunking can be defined as attacking the
validity of a report without including substantial grounds for
the attack. Violations of this condition will immediately be
followed by exposure on the main Internet UFO discussion forums.


**************************************************************
Editor's notes:

UFO News International welcomes:
. reports, experiences, analyses and commentaries
Anonimity will be provided if needed.

All contributions to this newsletter must be in English. Grammar
and spelling need not be perfect.

In case of a change in your e-mail address, please notify me in
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  ______
 /\    /\
 \_\  /_/
 \  "  /
  \ _ /
   \ /

**************************************************************

Editor:             Henny van der Pluijm
Correspondents:     Barry Chamish (Israel)
                    Mike Stahl (Australia)


UFOIC, http://www.ufoic.com, hosts:

Henny van der Pluijm's UFO FAQ: http://www.ufoic.com/faq
and the UNI archive:            http://www.ufoic.com/faq/ufopals

Personal website:   http://www.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
E-mail:             hvdp@worldonline.nl

Direct subscribers:                  305

Redistributors:

Alien Research (120), Project Watchfire BBS, NUN BBS Network
(150), UFO Online BBS PDX Portland Oregon USA (75), UFOR (Over
10,000), UFO UpDates Toronto (3,500).

Estimated readership: 12,000
______________________________________________________________

(C) Henny van der Pluijm, 1998.
______________________________________________________________
=FF
            __________________________________________
           /    Met vriendelijke groet/Best wishes    \
                      Henny van der Pluijm
                      hvdp@worldonline.nl

                       Technology Pages
                http://home.worldonline.nl/~hvdp
             \______________________________________/






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                               Address Search

From: Maurizio Verga <mverga@wolf.it>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:02:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:41:31 -0500
Subject: Address Search

Dear Friends,

I am looking for the address of English researcher Mark Ian Birdsall. Is
anybody able to help me ?

Thank you in advance.

Maurizio Verga
Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici







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                      UFOs In The Former Soviet Union?

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:58:06 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:42:02 -0500
Subject: UFOs In The Former Soviet Union?

Dear Colleagues,

I would once again like to ask for your assistance in obtaining
information on UFO's in the former Soviet Union. This is in
connection with a long term research project I have been involved
with and any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

I am looking for information from the former Soviet Union on the
following topics:

1. General UFO sightings.

2. UFO crashes.

3. Abduction accounts.

4. UFO photographs.

5. Contactees.

6. Military sightings.

7. UFO sightings by Cosmonauts.

9. In short, just about anything and everything there is on UFOs
   in the former Soviet Union.

If you can help me plese contact me at:

Philip Mantle,
1 Woodhall Drive,
Batley, West Yorkshire,
England, WFl7 7SW.
E-mail: el51@dial.pipex.com

If you are unable to help me with this request I would appreciate
it if you could pass it onto your colleagues in the hope that
they might be able to assist me in my search for information.

Yours  Sincerely,


Philip Mantle.









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                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock]
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:12:10 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:39:59 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


HOWDY, LIST --

>From: "Steven Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site
>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:05:03 -0500


>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: "Serge Salvaille" <sergesa@connectmmic.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site
>>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:49:54 -0500

<substantial snip>

>>One thing gets cleared up though: a couple of months ago, there
>>was a thread here on who has the rights on the AA stuff.  It now
>>seems that you have answered the question: Mr Santilli is the
>>main owner of the film(s).  Guess the one who sold it to him must
>>be biting his nails.

>>Serge Salvaille

>I'm not sure you can ignore the financial backer, Volker
>Spielberg, who allegedly financed Ray's entry into this genre.
>But certainly Ray has a large voice in how the "film" is
>distributed.


You chaps seem to be forgetting the U.S. government.  IF the AA
flick is real (ROTFLMAO), it is the property of the U.S.
government paid for by American taxpayers.

Oh, yeah, and did whoever it was that sold the stolen or fake
goods to Mr. Santilli pay income taxes on his/her/its ill-gotten
gains?  I hope the IRS is looking into this.  It would be nice to
see the revenooers go after a real crook (hoaxer or thief, as the
case may be) for a change.

-- KARL OF THE ORDER OF THE HALF-FULL (IF CRACKED) SAUCER







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                         A.Q.U./Q.A.U. & UFO Quebec

From: Gilles Milot <MILOG@SNC-LAVALIN.COM>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:53:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:54:24 -0500
Subject: A.Q.U./Q.A.U. & UFO Quebec

Dear members of the List,

L'Association Quebecoise d'Ufologie/Quebec Association of Ufology
is proud to announce that UFO QUEBEC is now a member of its
growing family.UFO QUEBEC is a serious and dedicated organization
based in Montreal, Quebec. The members fo the Board of Directors
are well known in the ufology field and have contributed in many
ways (tv shows, magazines, conference and field investigations)
to the advancement of ufology in the province of Quebec. The
president Andre Pilon, bio-chimist is seconded by Ricardo Melfi
who has a university degree in litterature and was co-producer of
tv shows and magazines related to unexplained phenomenons, Pierre
Caron, psycha- nalist and invited speaker at many conferences,
Jean Paradis amateur astronomer and expert in field
investigations, Nathalie Desforges bio-chimist and Gilles Milot
president of A.Q.U./Q.A.U.

You can reach UFO QUEBEC at these following numbers:

Phone: 514-491-6494

E-mail:

L'Association Quebecoise d'Ufologie/Quebec Association of Ufology
is a non profit organization. Our goals are:

1.  Recognition of ufology by the scientific community
    (I know,it's almost an impossible task but if we don't
    try....)

2.  Establish a cooperation link between organizations and
    individuals

3.  Being a helpfull tool to individuals and groups to reach
    maturity in ufo research and study.

4.  Make the ufological informations available and accessible
    to as many people as possible.

A.Q.U./Q.A.U. will keep posting this list of all activities of
speciall interest.

You can reach us at the following numbers:

Phone: 514-865-0546
E-mail: a.q.u.@videotron.ca

Gilles Milot







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                       Re: Reward of a Million Dollars

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:03:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:08:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Reward of a Million Dollars


>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:32:16 -0600 (CST)
>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: ACC reward


>I dunno if Errol still permits any ACC-related postings. [On very
>occasions..--ebk]  If so, and any of you UFO investigators have
>any "deep-black" contacts who could $1 million dollars, you might
>point them at this ACC page:


IT appears that ACC wants "leakage" that results in public
knowledge/viewing of "the whole enchilada"..... craft, bodies,
whatever, that constituters absolute, irrefutable proof.  If is
apparently presumed that the "confidential" information
leading to this happy state will come from someone with a
clearance/need-to-know.

And, in that regard, anyone contemplating that megabuck who
also has a clearance may be thinking....

Go straight to jail
Do not collect $1,000,000.







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                             Re: Address Search

From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:37:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:04:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Address Search


> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:02:55 +0100
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: Maurizio Verga <mverga@wolf.it>
> Subject: Address Search

> Dear Friends,

> I am looking for the address of English researcher Mark Ian Birdsall. Is
> anybody able to help me ?

> Thank you in advance.

> Maurizio Verga
> Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici

You can contact  Mark Birdsall via

Quest Magazine
Wharfebank House,
Wharfebank Business Centre,
Ilkley Road, Otley, West
Yorkshire, England, LS21 3JP.

All the best,







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                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:15:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:50:43 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


>From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock]
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:12:10 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

>You chaps seem to be forgetting the U.S. government.  IF the AA
>flick is real (ROTFLMAO), it is the property of the U.S.
>government paid for by American taxpayers.

Of course, the US Government couldn't claim ownership without
also admitting irs veracity.  I'm not sure if it would eventually
fall into the public domain or not, but it would seem that even
if it is real there is little chance that the Government is going
to comment one way or the other.

>Oh, yeah, and did whoever it was that sold the stolen or fake
>goods to Mr. Santilli pay income taxes on his/her/its ill-gotten
>gains?  I hope the IRS is looking into this.  It would be nice to
>see the revenooers go after a real crook (hoaxer or thief, as the
>case may be) for a change.

If the "Cameraman" is ever identified, that could be a problem
for him.  Of course, the tax issue was one of the first things
mentioned as to why he wouldn't come forward.  OTOH, I'm not sure
what the IRS has to look into at this point.  All they have are
the comments of a music promoter regarding an alleged payment to
an unidentified American of an undisclosed amount of money for a
"film" that most people believe to be non-existent.

Steve










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                    Re: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:45:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:54:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years


>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:56:40 -0800
>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOR: Puerto Rico - The Past Ten Years


Hi Skye


>Sean, don't even start.  Someone very innocently made the same
>statement a few weeks ago (where were you?)

Busy working at a new job and trying to write a book, whilst
juggling all this with generally trying to have a life.

>and it resulted in the
>submission of hundreds of non-U.S. sightings reports to this list.

This list as EBK points out is global and I have had many reports (via
the net) myself from Russia, Yugoslavia, Israel, Texas to name but a few
places.

>[Hundreds? (where was _I_? Non-U.S.? This _Canadian_ List goes
> world-wide -- ebk]

>No one believes these things happen only in the U.S.,

I'm afraid you missed my point :-(

>and if you read
>any of the UFO newsletters on the Net, it's abundantly clear.

I know, it is very clear.

--
        Are you a man or a mouse, come on squeek up!
                       Sean Jones
          reply to--sean@tedric.demon.co.uk
Homepage--http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/1745/index.htm
        Research page --http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








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                       Re: A.Q.U./Q.A.U. & UFO Quebec

From: "Keith M. King" <alien2@sound.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:00:56
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:06:46 -0500
Subject: Re: A.Q.U./Q.A.U. & UFO Quebec


>L'Association Quebecoise d'Ufologie/Quebec Association of Ufology
>is a non profit organization. Our goals are:

>1.  Recognition of ufology by the scientific community
>    (I know,it's almost an impossible task but if we don't
>    try....)

>2.  Establish a cooperation link between organizations and
>    individuals

>3.  Being a helpfull tool to individuals and groups to reach
>    maturity in ufo research and study.

>4.  Make the ufological informations available and accessible
>    to as many people as possible.

>A.Q.U./Q.A.U. will keep posting this list of all activities of
>speciall interest.

>You can reach us at the following numbers:

>Phone: 514-865-0546
>E-mail: a.q.u.@videotron.ca

>Gilles Milot


Welcome to the community, Gilles!  Any serious assisstance
is ALWAYS welcomed!

Keith M. King
M. King Studies









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                        Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:04:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:27:28 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


>From: Ktperehwon@aol.com [Karl Pflock]
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:12:10 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re:  UFO UpDate: Re: 'Beyond Roswell' Q&A Site


In the event that the cameraman gets caught by the feds and needs
money to pay his legal bills he can apply to the American
Computer Company (www.accp.com..... look for Roswell related
stuff) for their $ 1M reward for providing absolute proof
(because the government couldn't prosecute the cameraman for
stealing/leaking classified material if it isn't property of the
government... and if it IS property of the government, then it is
(probably) really ET)









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                        The 'Rendlesham Forest' Case

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:46:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:31:12 -0500
Subject: The 'Rendlesham Forest' Case

Subscribers may care to note that during the period of Errol's
departure to a more profitable and we trust warmer climate, a
report entitled, Rendlesham Unravelled', will be published on the
events which took place at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge and
Rendlesham Forest in late December 1980.

The report is a result of several months research and will
confirm the likely explanation for the incidents which led to the
submission of Lieutenant-Colonel (subsequently Colonel) Charles
Halt's memo to the Ministry of Defence.

Published for the first time, are details of critical new
documentary evidence which casts grave doubts on the claims that
a 'UFO' may have been witnessed by base personnel on separate
occasions.

Now proven beyond any dispute, despite Colonel Halt's
protestations that neither the security police or himself would
have been deceived by the lights from the nearby Orford Ness
lighthouse or Shipwash lightship, the lighthouse played a much
more significant role than was ever before realised.

Although this fact was documented at the time and was known to
Colonel Halt and other key witnesses, it has never previously
been publicly disclosed by them.


As a distinct aside, also encompassed is revealing new evidence
which illustrates how Larry Warren's claims have changed
dramatically from the statements he originally made whilst under
the pseudonym of Art Wallace.


Further details will be available during the next couple of days
from my web site, at URL:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/


Some of the case's foremost researchers and others who provided
invaluable feedback and assistance, have been made aware of the
findings and resulting conclusions, reactions including:

"The witness statements are a valuable addition to our knowledge
about the case. As you rightly point out, they undermine much of
what the witnesses themselves later said, by which time their own
memories had presumably begun to fade and they had started to
elaborate on the story.

I look forward to hearing other people's reactions to your highly
persuasive findings".

Ian Ridpath, editor and publisher of several leading books on
astronomy and major critic of the 'UFO' claims.


"Good for you sir, I think I've just read my first journalistic
article about the non-incident at RAF Woodbridge".

Chris Armold, who served with the 81st Security Police Squadron
and reported the initial 'UFO' incident to local police.


"Congratulation on your achievements.

Rendlesham is at best half the case it was and may turn out to
have been little of any substance after all".

Jenny Randles, one of Britain's leading writers on the
'unexplained', she has written three books on the case.


Jenny knows I share her disappointment that a case we thought
still had a number of unexplained aspects - particularly the
'triangular' shaped craft reportedly encountered - evidently now
calls into question the reliability of even the most ostensibly
credible witness testimony.


James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com







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                     List On Hiatus Until March 4, 1998

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:55:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:55:36 -0500
Subject: List On Hiatus Until March 4, 1998




This is the last post until PM, Thursday March 4.

Errol Bruce-Knapp,
Moderator