The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr UFO UpDates Mailing List Apr 2002 Apr 4: Now That Everyone's Had A Breather..... - The Moderator [32] Television Series On Alien Abduction - Susan Fried [12] The 'Chester Archey' & 'Bruce Burkan' Cases - Chris Aubeck [25] Anti-Noise Systems - Martin Shough [9] Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [65] Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj - Jim Kelly [22] Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj - Jim Kelly [34] Re: A Major Relevation - Norejko - Raven Norejko [26] Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj - Jim Kelly [19] Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj - Jim Kelly [21] Sightings In The Western United States? - Jim Kelly [10] Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology - - Jan Aldrich [58] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Friedman - Stan Friedman [32] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer - John Rimmer [46] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer - John Rimmer [11] Re: Lonnie Zamorra & Gary T. Wilcox? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [57] Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [132] Re: Damaged Goods - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [52] 'Looking For Orthon' A Book On George Adamski - Roy Hale [98] Upcoming Video - Francis Knize [18] Re: Damaged Goods - Shough - Martin Shough [57] Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.1.02 - Paul Anderson [63] Secrecy News -- 04/01/02 - Steven Aftergood [113] Hynek Knew About Roswell In 1976? - Mac Tonnies [16] CCCRN News: Formation Reports Archive Updated - Paul Anderson [50] Shockingly Close to Publication! - Karl Pflock [47] Runcorn UK Conference - Final Details - Eric Morris [32] Spokane, Washington - Update - Brian Vike [74] Stephen Coonts Weighs In On UFOs - Larry W. Bryant [189] Secrecy News -- 04/03/02 - Steven Aftergood [100] Re: Sightings In The Western United States? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [66] Dan McEvoy? - Royce J. Myers III [20] Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' - Murray Bott [142] Re: Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' - - Paul Thompson [15] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark - Jerome Clark [51] Re: Sightings In The Western United States? - - Jim Kelly [34] Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology - - Jim Mortellaro [71] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 14 - John Hayes [512] Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [30] Re: Phoenix Case - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [39] Re: Damaged Goods - Bowden - Dave Bowden [55] Re: Damaged Goods - Bowden - Dave Bowden [25] From UFO Roundup: Large Saucer Flies Over Downtown - Chris Rutkowski [65] Alfred's Odd Observation #012 - Alfred Lehmberg [110] HBCC UFO: Cedarvale, British Columbia - Brian Vike [42] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Hall - Richard Hall [64] HBCC UFO: Nass Valley, British Columbia - Brian Vike [70] Apr 5: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [16] Filer's Files - #14-2002 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [552] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 349 - Edoardo Russo [76] Re: Dan McEvoy? - Velez - John Velez [33] Re: Phoenix Case - Hebert - Amy Hebert [68] Re: Anti-Noise Systems - Morris - Eric Morris [16] Re: Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' - Bott - Murray Bott [24] Nick Pope's Weird World - April 2002 - Georgina Bruni [118] Re: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [26] Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [120] Re: Nick Pope's Weird World - April 2002 - Wendy Connors [20] Barry - Jim Mortellaro [46] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille - Serge Salvaille [81] Re: Dan McEvoy? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [39] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer - John Rimmer [56] Re: Phoenix Case - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [63] 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Chris Rutkowski [73] Voyager Newsletter No. 21 - James Easton [552] Apr 6: Secrecy News -- 04/05/02 - Steven Aftergood [103] Travis Walton Case Files? - Jim Kelly [6] Re: Voyager Newsletter No. 21 - Gates - Robert Gates [44] New UFO Book Reviews - Mac Tonnies [6] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors - Wendy Connors [91] Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [43] Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Velez - John [49] To Bravely Go Back When No One Has Gone Back Before - Kelly Peterborough [87] Re: To Bravely Go Back ... - Mortellaro - Jim Mortellaro [43] Alfred's Odd Observation #13 - Alfred Lehmberg [172] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark - Jerome Clark [63] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Salvaille - Serge Salvaille [94] Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Salvaille - Serge Salvaille [51] Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous? - Felder - Bobbie Felder [37] James Easton - Richard Hall [7] Apr 7: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Bobbie Felder [59] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder - Bobbie Felder [65] Re: James Easton - Gates - Robert Gates [21] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer - John Rimmer [64] New At Magonia - John Rimmer [25] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors - Wendy Connors [93] Cydonian Imperative: 4-7-02 - Mac Tonnies [41] Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [56] 'Magic' Codewords - Bill Hamilton [35] Strange Lights In Sky Baffle Bavarians - Kelly Peterborough [28] Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [40] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Salvaille - Serge Salvaille [85] Re: New At Magonia - Mortellaro - Jim Mortellaro [48] Apr 8: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors - Wendy Connors [59] Re: Strange Lights In Sky Baffle Bavarians - Koch - Joachim Koch [18] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille - Eric Morris [38] Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Morris - Eric Morris [58] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors - Wendy Connors [161] Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [40] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [34] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Mortellaro - Jim Mortellaro [110] Re: Phoenix Case - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [9] Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.8.02 - Paul Anderson [58] Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Velez - John Velez [73] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Jones - Sean Jones [63] Oft Mentioned Problem - Eleanor White [91] Who & Where Is John Macklin? - Chris Aubeck [6] Apr 9: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark - Jerome Clark [53] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder - Bobbie Felder [176] Stanton T. Friedman IS Real! Review & Air-Date - Paul Kimball [10] Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Gates - Robert Gates [74] EW: German Ufologist Debunks Bavarian Mystery - Kurt Jonach [41] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Morris - Eric Morris [46] HBCC UFO: Report By USN [Retired] - Brian Vike [48] EW: Bavarian Mystery Lights - Update - Kurt Jonach [64] Re: Voyager Newsletter No. 21 - Bruce Maccabee [141] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Clarke - David Clarke [102] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Wendy Connors [125] Re: Oft Mentioned Problem - White - Eleanor White [15] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Hale - Roy Hale [20] San Marino Symposium March 2002 - Gildas Bourdais [164] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Hutchinson - Bruce Hutchinson [150] Comet Cometh After 341-Year Absence - Joe McGonagle [11] Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - Richard Hall [33] Apr 10: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Bobbie Felder [51] Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder - Bobbie Felder [33] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Virginia Davey [25] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - Will Buech=E9 [63] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [30] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Bill Chalker [38] Sceptibuking At Its Worst - GT McCoy [15] Chilean UFO and Chupacabras Victim - Update - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [289] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [19] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Serge Salvaille [131] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Jim Kelly [39] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Richard Hall [48] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - John Velez [47] Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Bott - Murray Bott [130] International Petition Progress Report 01 - John Velez [33] Secrecy News -- 04/10/02 - Steven Aftergood [100] Filers Files #15-2002 - Majorstar@aol.com [533] Apr 11: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 15 - John Hayes [446] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Richard Hall [37] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Richard Hall [33] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Jim Mortellaro [158] Apr 12: Current State Of Ufology - Robert Gates [43] HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario - Brian Vike [30] German UFO Large Meteorite - Hannes la Rue [58] Re: Sceptibuking At Its Worst - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [25] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Wendy Connors [52] Alfred's Odd Observation #14 - Alfred Lehmberg [182] Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - - Sean Jones [14] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Sean Jones [38] Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - Hannes la Rue [30] Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [31] Secrecy News -- 04/11/02 - Steven Aftergood [97] Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - - Mac Tonnies [24] Re: urrent State Of Ufology - Bujic - Vencislav Bujic [70] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Bill Weber [93] Re: Current State Of Ufology - Tophar - Christopher Kelly [91] Re: Current State Of Ufology - Tophar - Christopher Kelly [91] Apr 13: Re: HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario - Hall - Richard Hall [42] HBCC UFO: Courtney/Comox Valley British Columbia - Brian Vike [52] To Chinese UFO Buffs It's A Serious Science - Stig Agermose [73] Re:Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - John Velez [32] Larry Bryant's 'Notice of Impending Legal Action' - Larry Bryant [29] Re: nternational Petition Progress Report 01 - - John Velez [49] Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - - John Velez [67] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hall - Richard Hall [13] Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar Announcement - 4/20/02 - Intruders Foundation [48] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Wendy Connors [28] Re: Review: 'Abduction In My Life' - Davidson - Nancy Davidson [20] EW: NASA Odyssey Photographs Mars Face - Kurt Jonach - 'The Electric Warrior' [50] Cydonian Imperative: THEMIS Images Face, D&M - Mac Tonnies [59] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Jim Mortellaro [143] Apr 14: Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - - John Velez [47] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 350 - Edoardo Russo [117] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Sean Jones [50] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Bobbie Felder [43] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Brun - Georgina Bruni [51] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hale - Roy Hale [11] Re: Review: 'Abduction In My Life' - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [17] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Virginia Davey [18] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Jim Mortellaro [143] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Salvaille - Serge Salvaille [61] A Thought Occurs - Bobbie Felder [22] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Sandow - Greg Sandow [19] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Cathy Johnson [85] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Jim Mortellaro [143] New Triangle Photo Case - Bruce Maccabee [12] NASA - From Middle Butte To Camelback - Lan Fleming [35] Bulletin: 'Pictogram' Also Photographed By THEMIS - Mac Tonnies [8] NICAP Newsletters For Sale - Andy Roberts [9] BBC Special: UFOs Over Wales - Stig Agermose [4] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts - Andy Roberts [29] UFO*BC Updates - David Pengilly [32] Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - - Richard Hall [48] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Kellyj - Jim Kelly [66] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hall - Richard Hall [90] Re: A Thought Occurs - Hall - Richard Hall [38] Apr 15: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Clarke - David Clarke [99] Re: A Thought Occurs - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [31] Food For Thought - Eleanor White [20] Re: New Triangle Photo Case - Hatch - Larry Hatch [21] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Clark - Jerome Clark [40] Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Alfred Lehmberg [208] Re: HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario - Cameronc - Cory Cameron [36] Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder - Bobbie Felder [72] HBCC UFO: Palouse, Washington, Pictures - Brian Vike [27] EW: Brazilian UFOport Project Strains Credibility - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [72] Re: A Thought Occurs - Velez - John Vlez [70] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hatch - Larry Hatch [54] Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [58] 11th Annual International UFO Congress - Review - Stig Agermose [314] Re: A Thought Occurs - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [63] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [32] Re: New Triangle Photo Case - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [26] Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Wendy Connors [36] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Davey - Virginia Davey [22] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Salvaille - Serge Salvaille [42] Re: A Thought Occurs - Sandow - Greg Sandow [58] Re: HBCC UFO: Palouse, Washington, Pictures - McCoy - GT McCoy [55] Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - - Thiago L. Ticchetti [25] Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez - John Velez [144] Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Felder - Bobbie Felder [29] Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder - Bobbie Felder [25] Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder - Bobbie Felder [24] Apr 16: Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder - Bobbie Felder [33] Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Felder - Bobbie Felder [36] Re: Food For Thought - Velez - John Velez [64] Re: A Thought Occurs - Randle - Kevin Randle [68] Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder - Bobbie Felder [70] Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality - Disclosure Project [79] Re: A Thought Occurs - Velez - John Velez [147] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Morris - Eric Morris [72] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [16] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [46] Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Friedman - Stan Friedman [57] Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO - Stig Agermose [20] BBC Radio MoD X-Files - David Clarke [29] Re: A Thought Occurs - Salvaille - Serge Salvaille [35] Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [84] Re: To Chinese UFO Buffs It's A Serious Science - - Stig Agermose [17] Re: A Thought Occurs - Ledger - Don Ledger [84] Apr 17: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer - John Rimmer [90] Missouri Man Claims... Addendum I - Stig Agermose [3] A Strange New Form Of Matter? - Joe McGonagle [7] Re: A Thought Occurs - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [31] Re: Food For Thought - White - Eleanor White [120] Secrecy News -- 04/16/02 - Steven Aftergood [67] Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [341] Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [85] Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder - Bobbie Felder [39] Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Ledger - Don Ledger [22] The Jim Merrick Incident In Canada? - Jason Goldring [11] Re: Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO - - Mac Tonnies [20] Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Johnson - Cathy Johnson [94] Cydonian Imperative: 04-16-02 D&M Pyramid - Mac Tonnies [44] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts - Andy Roberts [30] EW: Monuments of Mars Author Critiques New NASA - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [78] Aurora Project Behind UFO Sightings In Scotland? - Stig Agermose [158] Apr 18: Re: A Thought Occurs - Velez - John Velez [64] Scientists Closing In On ET's - Stig Agermose [58] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [13] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [18] Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez - John Velez [35] 'The Flying Saucer Cinema' - Stig Agermose [39] Re: A Thought Occurs - Sandow - Greg Sandow [85] Wisconsin UFO Sightings - Stig Agermose [25] Secrecy News -- 04/17/02 - Steven Aftergood [91] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark - Jerome Clark [159] Re: British Government and UFOs - Roberts - Andy Roberts [50] Re: Aurora Project Behind UFO Sightings In - Stig Agermose [12] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Hale - Roy Hale [16] Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Jones - Sean Jones [24] Re: A Thought Occurs - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [58] Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder - Bobbie Felder [48] Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Bobbie Felder [35] Filer's Files #16-2002 - George A. Filer [448] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Rolfe - Chris Rolfe [65] Re: British Government and UFOs - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [36] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [22] Re: The Jim Merrick Incident In Canada? - Goldring - Jason Goldring [12] Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 16 - John Hayes [510] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Morris - Eric Morris [23] Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - Wendy Connors [35] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts - Andy Roberts [9] Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [113] Apr 19: Re: bduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Hall, Reed - Reed Hall [37] Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts - Andy Roberts [45] Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Eric Morris [20] At Least A Billion 'Earths'? - Stig Agermose [39] Re: A Thought Occurs - Salvaille - Serge Salvaille [87] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Velez - John Velez [137] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [50] Re: Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO - - Colm Kelleher - NIDS [206] Cydonian Imperative: 04-18-02 Buttresses & Casing - Mac Tonnies [59] Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 16 - Deardorff - Jim Deardorff [81] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Salvaille - Serge Salvaille [94] UFO Wisconsin - Mexican Roswell? - Stig Agermose [97] Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Mac Tonnies [20] [aufon] Pancake Perspectives - Issue 01 - Larry W. Bryant [205] Disclosure2003 Press Release - 4/19/02 - Disclosure Project [57] Re: British Government and UFOs - Morris - Eric Morris [56] UFO Romania - Valentin Manoliu [487] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder - Bobbie Felder [40] Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - Felder - Bobbie Felder [29] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [99] Magonia Online - Nazi UFO Mythos - Mark Pilkington [27] Apr 20: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [31] Interesting Quote - Richard Hall [7] Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez - John Velez [231] Re: British Government and UFOs - Clarke - David Clarke [55] Re: British Government and UFOs - Clarke - David Clarke [25] 'Archival Safekeeping Depository' - Sean Jones [22] Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Jones - Sean Jones [65] Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - Jones - Sean Jones [18] Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - - Josh Goldstein [36] Secrecy News -- 04/19/02 - Steven Aftergood [134] EW: 04-19-02 Top Cop Wins 'Big Brother' Award - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [96] Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Gates - Robert Gates [37] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Ledger - Don Ledger [28] Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - Connors - Wendy Connors [24] Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [408] Apr 21: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - McCoy - GT McCoy [70] Alfred's Odd Observation #15 - Alfred Lehmberg [164] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Costello - Sharon Costello [28] Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Gates - Robert Gates [25] Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Morris - Eric Morris [40] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder - Bobbie Felder [67] Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [42] Damon Knight 1923 - 2002 - Jerry Hamm [6] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [40] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Velez - John Velez [125] Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Jones - Sean Jones [18] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder - Bobbie Felder [28] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder - Bobbie Felder [52] Apr 22: CCCRN News: First UK Crop Formation 2002 and Other - Paul Anderson [65] Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.22.02 - Paul Anderson [78] Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez - John Velez [197] Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Morris - Eric Morris [48] Re: British Government and UFOs - Morris - Eric Morris [22] Moderator Message - UFO UpDates - Toronto [4] Viggiani On SDI - 04-20-02 - Eleanor White [79] Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [16] Apr 23: Procedural Matters - Richard Hall [16] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Gates - Robert Gates [45] New Alien Images - Mac Tonnies [5] Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Brigham - Tim Brigham [21] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Brigham - Tim Brigham [104] Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Randle - Kevin Randle [46] Re: Procedural Matters - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [23] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 351 - Edoardo Russo [122] Where In The World Is Simone Mendez? - Karl Pflock [10] Re: New Alien Images - Connors - Wendy Connors [14] Re: Procedural Matters - Meiners - Jean Meiners [29] Hickson Recording At Kaeser Konsulting - John Velez [57] Jerry Cohen's Site - Jerry Cohen [8] Apr 24: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 17 - John Hayes [540] Secrecy News -- 04/23/02 - Steven Aftergood [106] Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [21] Letter-To-The-Editor 'Northern Virginia Journal' - Larry W. Bryant [45] Re: New Alien Images - Morris - Eric Morris [32] Top Secret UFO Documents - Georgina Bruni [23] Re: Blather Competition - Velez - John Velez [30] Re: Secrecy News -- 04/23/02 - Steven Aftergood [112] Article About Ramey Memo - Stan Friedman [31] Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot - Stig Agermose [35] X-Files To Return To The Big Screen - Stig Agermose [34] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer - John Rimmer [146] Apr 25: CIA Cans Cookies - Stig Agermose [48] Filer's Files #17-2002 - George A. Filer [538] Re: Blather Competition - McCoy - GT McCoy [22] England Reports First Crop Circle of 2002 - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [59] Secrecy News - 04/23/02 - Steven Aftergood [112] Re: Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot - - Eric Morris [24] Roswell Vs. The Critics - Bill Hamilton [124] A Plan for Political Action - UFO UpDates - Toronto [172] Re: Procedural Matters - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [109] P-Shaped Object? - Don Ledger [19] Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark - Jerome Clark [256] UFOs Back Over China - Kenny Young [22] 'Are UFO Fans Really So Alien After All?' - Stig Agermose [59] Apr 26: Beyond Publications Contributors - Philip Mantle [40] Secrecy News -- 04/25/02 - Steven Aftergood [109] BC News: Alien Visitation Inspired New Religion - Stig Agermose [98] Re: Article About Ramey Memo - Randle - Kevin Randle [33] Full Story On UFOs Sighted In Beijing Sky - Stig Agermose [42] Barbara Schutte Abduction? - Luis R. Gonzalez [6] Preserving Historical UFO Data - Luis R. Gonzalez [22] Re: Blather Competition - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [14] Close Encounters Of The Royal Kind - Stig Agermose [17] Re: Alien Visitation Inspired New Religion - - Jean Meiners [27] Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - White - Eleanor White [11] Canadians - UFO UpDates - Toronto [108] Mutilation In Huddersfield? - Alan Clark [37] Galileo Camera Anomaly At Ganymede - Alan Clark [44] Secrecy News -- 04/26/02 - Steven Aftergood [59] Re: Article About Ramey Memo - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [54] Apr 27: Re: Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot - - Eric Morris [27] Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [19] Re: Barbara Schutte Abduction? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [14] Re: Galileo Camera Anomaly At Ganymede - Koch - Joachim Koch [17] Seeking Philip L. Rife - chris aubeck [6] Alfred's Odd Ode #362 - Alfred Lehmberg [118] Re: Seeking Philip L. Rife - Hall - Richard Hall [10] Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Hatch - Larry Hatch [25] Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [28] Apr 28: Computer Troubles - Larry Hatch [6] Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson - Bruce Hutchinson [159] Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Connors - Wendy Connors [52] Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [31] Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [33] Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Hall - Richard Hall [66] SETI Gets By With Help From 3.5 Million Friends - Stig Agermose [95] Living In A Post-Biological Universe? - Stig Agermose [73] Apr 29: Raelians Have Begun Cloning Humans - Stig Agermose [45] Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Alevy - Gary Alevy [18] Reputed UFO Cult Leader Accused - Stig Agermose [59] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 352 - Edoardo Russo [97] Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Bill Hamiliton [21] CCCRN News: Odd Field Pattern In Saskatchewan - Paul Anderson [46] The Amazing Kreskin - Dave Bowden [30] Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson - Bruce Hutchinson [25] Re: Living In A Post-Biological Universe? - - Bill Hamilton [33] Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [50] Trindade Island Case Update - Wendy Connors [13] Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson - Bruce Hutchinson [42] Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [55] Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Ticchetti - Thiago L. Ticchetti [30] Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [84] Re: rindade Island Case Update - Connors - Wendy Connors [44] Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Sanchez-Ocejo - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [49] Apr 30: Re: The Amazing Kreskin - Ledger - Larry Hatch [39] Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Gevaerd - Revista UFO [44]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Now That Everyone's Had A Breather..... From: The Moderator <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Now That Everyone's Had A Breather..... Gentle Reader, Having read every one of the 36,613 posts to the List - and those that didn't - puts me in a fairly unique position. Should you care to read all of the Archive, you too would probably have a fairly good understanding of much of the strenuous UpDates debates. Some are historical feuds and those who insist on involving themselves without first doing their research at the Archive, do so at their own risk. As founder/operator/moderator of UFO UpDates what does and does not make it to your screen, is at my discretion. If I decide that two subscribers can duke it out, then that's the way it is. I'm aware of the history. If others choose to get belligerently involved I'll eventually become exasperated and won't post their responses - whether I'm accused of "Censorship" or not. There seems to be an attitude, among a tiny minority of subscribers, that the List is a democratic extension of the United States Constitution. It isn't - its a Canadian-based List. There's also a perception, again among a tiny minority of subscribers, that there's some kind of 'elitist-clique' here. There isn't. Nor is there an 'old-boys club' or support for friends and colleagues, no matter what. Read the Archive. UFO UpDates reflects the news, the people, the cases, the politics, the science, the entertainment and the most amazing damn things. Its an intense ufological education. For you and for me. If it gets too intense there's always the delete key - or the word, 'Un-subscribe'. Now, back to business..... Errol Bruce-Knapp Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Television Series On Alien Abduction From: Susan Fried <SusanIFried@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:57:21 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Television Series On Alien Abduction [Non-Subscriber Post] Hello, My name is Susan Fried and I am doing research for a television series on alien abduction. Our company, "Naked Eye Productions Ltd." which has produced several award winning programs, is working in conjunction with "Sci-Fi Channel" and "Dreamworks." We are looking for real stories from real people that haven't been told on film or television. We are in the initial research phase and are open and interested in any information you may feel is appropriate. I hope to hear back from you soon and thank you in advance for your time. Susan Fried
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 The 'Chester Archey' & 'Bruce Burkan' Cases From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:34:49 +0000 (GMT) Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: The 'Chester Archey' & 'Bruce Burkan' Cases Dear List members, I recently came upon these names, Chester Archey and Bruce Burkan, in connection with possible teleportation episodes. In the descrptions given to me, the cases happened as follows: 1) On August 24th 1966, police officer Chester Archey disappeared suddenly in his car while driving near Philadelphia. Witnesses saw him at the wheel, but the car vanished from the road before their eyes. Then, either simultaneously or afterwards, he reappeared in Pennsauken, New Jersey. He had somehow travelled 100 km without any explanation as to how or why. (2) On August 22nd 1967, 19 year old Bruce Burkan was at the beach with his girlfriend in Ashbury Park, New Jersey. He suddenly recalled that he had to put some coins in the parking metre, so he got up and ...vanished. He reappeared on October 24th, wearing clothes that were not his size, at a bus station, with 7 cents in his pocket. A police officer saw him and took him to the police station. They searched him but found nothing strange, and they supposed he had to be suffering from amnesia. Finally they managed to identify the young man, but could find no explanation for his disappearance. I have reason to believe these cases are not correctly described. Could someone please tell me where they go wrong? Thanks, Chris Aubeck
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Anti-Noise Systems From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:49:19 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Anti-Noise Systems Hi List, Someone might be interested to check out this link: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992094 A few of you were discussing the feasibility of using out-of- phase anti-noise for silencing chopper rotor noise recently. This patent comes advertised as a potential silencer for cyclical noise sources such as compressors, drills and aircraft engines. Martin Shough
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:47:49 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:09:19 -0500 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >>Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:23:38 -0800 (PST) >>>Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:46:27 -0500 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Bruce, this isn't going to resolve unless there is a replay. I >>have another orb-video that shows these are not flares and am >>expecting more from Arizona soon. >>>These lights are seen frequently. >>The next time they have an exercise out in the California desert >>and drop flares I will video tape them and have a second person >>some distance to my side also video tape them for triangulation >>and will also observe them through my telescope and binoculars >>and we will see what that shows. >>If I am lucky enough to see the orbs again, I will do the same.> >>I have seen these same lights in front of mountains here in the >>Calif. desert where there is no MOA. And others have too. I >>would think they would be of great scientific interest if so. >The triangulation I did stands on its own. It is based on >sighting lines that were determined using ground reference >points. The videotaped lights of Kryston, Lynn and Rairdon were >far southwest of Phoenix. >However, repeating the observations as an experiment if a good >idea. Triangulation is good. But the comparison must be at with >comparable video cameras and at comparable distances. Will do no >good to get "up close" to see what flares "really look like." >The TV media have already done that. Moreover, one must be >certain that the flares are of the same type LUU-- etc. I understand this Bruce, but I must add that a recent re- analysis I did selecting several lights as points of reference on both the Krysten night frame shot and day frame shot to determine a consistent ratio between frames still places these lights in front of the Estrella Mtns and not 60+ miles away so I am going to go to professionals if necessary and get this re- analyzed. Your triangulation analysis and my placement analysis do not agree. Also, new computer software may show the outline of the mountains in the video itself and am looking forward to testing that. I have a comparable video camera and if I get a chance soon and there is a flare exercise out in the Calif. desert I will set up as far away as I can and still have a view. I am sure I can interpose at least 50 miles between the flares and my camera and maybe more. I will examine maps for a good shooting location. BTW, I do not generally have disagreements with your work and want others on the list to know it is not my habit to debate you on other fine work that you have done, but this was an issue where I had personal involvement and approached this from many angles. You might be surprised to learn that when I first saw these lights I blurted out to others present that they might be flares and only changed my mind when I saw them under magnification. Comparing what I saw with my visual memory of having seen flares from a distance through binoculars I was surprised that these lights had such perfect circular geometry. I was also surprised that two of them on the far left were almost on top of each other. I will have to extract a frame and enlarge and send that to you for you to see as it is from King's footage, not Krysten's. -Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:03:40 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:33:58 -0800 (PST) >I recognize that Tom changed his testimony and he is welcome to >that. The radar tapes we tried to acquire from Skyharbor were >not available even 2 weeks after the event. Since the flares >were not reported by Benz until 4 months after the event and it >became an issue, how are we to acquire radar tapes at that late >stage? Bill, I am talking about the tapes from the Tower in New Mexico. They monitor all traffic into Phoenix. Maybe some of the tracks could have helped coordinate some of the sighting reports from March 13th? Hey, I ding my own organization for this also. Richard was the only MUFON investigator seriously working on this case. Tom Taylor was too ill to assist, I think Richard was overwhelmed by the plublicity and the lack of manpower to help him after you left. I began my field investigator training after this case. Jim Kelly MUFON-AZ
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:37:14 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - King >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:26:03 +0000 >MUFON during that administration did a solo act investigating >the event. They didn't want any of their own trained field >investigators to help them. Let alone other independent UFO >investigators. Within 2 weeks this case became a piece of >property. Certain people were struggling to cease control of the >eyewitnesses, videos, and evidence. Certain people can make a >couple bucks on TV interviews, and kick backs from dealing with >TV producers. Certain people later controlled who the TV >producers spoke with, the spin of the story, etc. There were >many different investigators trying to investigate this large >sighting. However it didn't help when certain people down talked >you like an amateur punk investigator while plotting behind your >back. I remember several people proclaiming they were writing >books in just 2 weeks after the event. Tom, I certainly am not going to speak for Richard here. But I can tell you that Richard was MUFON's only investigator working on this case after Bill left and I believe that the case overwhelmed him. I came to MUFON as an investigator in the latter-half of 1997. In consequent conversations that I had with Richard, concerning March 13th, he was suspicious of anyone connected with Village Labs and the information that came out of there. This is where I think you were unfairly lumped in with them. You and I have discussed this before. I think many researchers had $ signs prancing around in their collective brains instead of getting to the truth. I agree with you. Jim Kelly MUFON- AZ
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: A Major Relevation - Norejko From: Raven Norejko <Raven@usadatanet.net> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:47:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: A Major Relevation - Norejko >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:17:05 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: A Major Relevation >Hello, Jim. I would like to ask a question. My wife is an >abductee and she gets strange marks on her arms and other places >from time to time. She notes that, unlike other bruises, these >fade out more rapidly, maybe within 48 hours. How many abductees >on this List note strange, unaccounted for marks or bruises and >also note they fade rapidly? This thread has taken so many side roads that I'm going around in circles... but want to slip in someplace here and mention that I have at times wakened with tiny bruises in a line along the outsides of my upper arms and on my hips. They look almost like I fell onto a string of fat beads that left a bruised impression. By the time I look for them again when undressing in the evening they are usually faded or nearly gone. The only reason I ever really took notice of them at all is because in general I do not bruise. I can trip, fall, run into things and bang my shins without ever getting the slightest bruise. When I do get one, I can definitely tell where it came from because it means I hit something *hard* enough not to miss it happening. These little strings of bruises on my arms and hips puzzled me because I had no recollection of any way they could have occurred. Cin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:01:24 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Subject: Re: Phoenix Case Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:33:58 -0800 (PST) >I spoke to Major Benz last Friday, she informed me that the >Maryland National Guard did not land on base at 8:30 pm on the >night of March 13th, 1997. She said that they dropped the flares >around 10:00 PM then returned to base. If you were told this by >the PIO at Davis Montham, they were mistaken. Remember, it was >Major Benz that found out the MANG was out that night. She is >now searching for the original documents of the search and will >send them to me when she locates it. >Lt Shepherd (PIO) was quoted in a Tucson newspaper. I would like >to see those original docs. Bill, you mean to tell me that you never even spoke to this PIO and just used the newspaper quote? Maybe this should be checked out as well? It's very important to the case. Jim Kelly MUFON-AZ
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:14:26 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Kellyj >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:34:17 -0800 (PST) >Hatchet job. Tony Ortega actually apologized to Jim. You see he >did not listen. Jim did not say he did a spectral analysis the >way a spectrometer analyzes a spectrum. This was all >misunderstood by Tony who did not take the time to understand. >Stanley was the only one to see a plane. He was extremely >nervous about it. >Bad story in the New Times. Bill, Bruce, Tom, Chaz, Amy, I spoke to Tony Ortega about the New Times article today. He stated that he did not apologize to Jim D about the article he wrote and he stands by all the information contained in that article. Bill, you should probably contact him to discuss this as should all the list members. He can be reached at his New Times office in Los Angeles. Jim Kelly - MUFON-AZ
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Sightings In The Western United States? From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:22:57 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Sightings In The Western United States? Dear List: I am looking for information where I can locate UFO sighting information from October through November of 1975, mainly in the Southwest and into California, Oregon, and Washington. I am looking for saucer sightings in pairs, or single sightings of saucer type UFO's that were reported. Can anyone steer me in the right direction? Website or researcher? Thank You, Jim Kelly MUFON-AZ
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology - From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:8:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology - >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:09:30 -0800 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >Subject: Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology >>Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:40:15 -0500 >>>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:21:10 -0800 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >>>Subject: Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology >>>If aliens occasionally give a particular contactee a whole lot >>>of evidence, as with Billy Meier, then they had better at the >>>same time have dispensed a fair amount of deceptive >>>evidence/information to keep the coverup intact. That means >>>making sure that folk who don't know any better will keep the >>>aliens' own contactee in a debunked status. (Prime Directive >>>rule xy.) Keeping ufologists confused would seem to be part of >>>the strategy. If they're not ready to face up to an alien >>>presence whose technology seems like magic, and don't think >>>aliens are smart enough to employ a comprehensive strategy, >>>that's another indication that we're not yet ready for the >>>coverup to be lifted. >>>>The only way to resolve the contactee situation is for multiple >>>>well-educated people with recording instruments to have a nice >>>>conversation around a parked UFO. At least, that would be a >>>>beginning. >>>Hmm, it wouldn't take very long for some branch of the military >>>to get there, would it, cordon it off, confiscate tapes..., come >>>forth with a cover story? >>Boy, this is too rich to pass up! >>An Otis T. Carr type could use this as a "get out of jail" card. >>"Fraud, fraud! No, I am the one defrauded! You see, the aliens >>lied to me about the propulsion scheme. I just built it like >>they told me, they should be on trail here." >>Or >>"Fake photograph, what fake photograph? The aliens tricked me!" >>... >It's your choice, Jan. Do aliens speak only truths and all >contactees are liars or deluded, or is there not a gray area >between your black & white assumption? Perhaps as a scientist >you should at least allow the possibility that aliens do not >always speak the truth, and not all claimed contactees are >non-genuine. >Jim Deardorff Hmmm. Seems you have edited much of what I said out. I don't think I every proposed such a thing as you wrote in the above paragraph. No matter. I know Grand Admiral Zog, High Commander of the Rebel Reptilian Expeditionary Fleet and Keeper of the Garden of War, has none who will call him a liar. He would devour any who accused him of such a thing. So your aliens lie. While mine do see things in black and white. They see three possible reactions to something, use it, ignore it, or destroy it. And they don't write things that are pronounced different than they read, either. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Friedman From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:54:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Friedman >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:23:40 -0500 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:26:29 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>>Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:49:30 -0600 >>>Patient and gentle listfolk: >>>"The Pelican notes, with ill-concealed glee, that America's ETH >>>ufologists have recently become more agitated and paranoid than >>>usual, having become aware of an insidious threat to their >>>noble cause." >>I'm sure that in the interests of fairness, Listing Gentlefolk would >>like to see what the Pelican wrote that triggered off this Clarkian >>rant, rather than relying on the Blessed Jerome's selective quotations: >>THE PELICAN WRITES: >>The Pelican notes, with ill-concealed glee, that America's ETH >>ufologists have recently become more agitated and paranoid than >>usual, having become aware of an insidious threat to their noble >>cause. >Here's one nuts and bolts man who is not "more agitated and >paranoid than usual" as a result of the Mothman Prophecies >movie.,.... Here's another nuts and bolts man who is also not "more agitated and paranoid than usual". Keel's strange views have been around a long time. What is there to get excited about? Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:09:53 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:53:07 -0600 >>Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:26:29 +0000 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>>Patient and gentle listfolk: >>>"The Pelican notes, with ill-concealed glee, that America's ETH >>>ufologists have recently become more agitated and paranoid than >>>usual, having become aware of an insidious threat to their >>>noble cause." >John, >The problem, which you fail to address, is that the Pelican's >piece is dishonest. As you well know, I often disagree with what >I read in Magonia, but at worst I find the publication - which I >genuinely enjoy reading - merely wrong-headed (pretty much, I >might add, way I feel when I'm reading the MUFON UFO Journal). I >take issue with your intellectual judgment, but not with your >intellectual integrity. The Pelican, whose identity you continue >to protect (as is your right, of course, as editor), (Personally, I would have thought an English major could have worked it out using a bit of textual analysis) >is making >claims that look very much like, not to put too fine a point on >it, unmitigated falsehoods. >Since we now know, however, that everything the Pelican claimed >about "America's ETH ufologists" and their response to the film >is malicious fiction, it is time for, if not an outright apology >(which we would graciously accept and for which we would afford >you all due credit), at least an admission of error. Or does >being an English PSH ufologist mean never having to say you're >sorry? I would have thought that an English major should have been familiar with the literary device of hyperbole and not have been so lacking a sense of proportion as to describe it as "malicious fiction" - it almost makes me think the Pelican might be right about the 'paranoid' bit!. It is interesting that you take such issue with one humourous paragraph, and neglect the rest of the Pelican's argument. Probably that tells us more about Jerome Clark than it does about the Pelican -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:10:52 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:23:40 -0500 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Here's one nuts and bolts man who is not "more agitated and >paranoid than usual" as a result of the Mothman Prophecies >movie.,.... How agitated and paranoid are you usually? -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Lonnie Zamorra & Gary T. Wilcox? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:11:47 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Lonnie Zamorra & Gary T. Wilcox? - Hatch >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Lonnie Zamorra & Gary T. Wilcox? >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:54:19 -0600 >>Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:22:55 -0800 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Lonnie Zamorra & Gary T. Wilcox? >>>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net> >>>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:43:54 -0500 (EST) >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Lonnie Zamora & Gary T. Wilcox? >>That's a good question! Exactly when did Wilcox come >>forward with his story, and is it possible he heard about >>the Zamora events first? >Wilcox confided the story only to family members and close >friends. Over the next few days, it had circulated throughout >the rural area where Wilcox lived. Two NICAP members learned of >it through Floyd Wilcox, Gary's brother, who told them that if >Gary said it really happened, it must have really happened. >According to Gary's father, his son did not learn of the Socorro >incident until a week after its occurrence, when the father >showed the son a clipping about it. >On April 28, four days after the alleged encounter, his longtime >neighbor Priscilla Baldwin interviewed him at length. She >returned to his farm the next day to look for traces, but if any >had ever been there, rain washed them away. She then notified >the county sheriff. A deputy showed up on the morning of the >30th, and he and Baldwin went to see Wilcox. Wilcox was busy >doing chores and said he didn't want to take the time off to >talk, but he said they were free to examine the site. >The first detailed press story appeared on May 7 in the >Binghamton Press. Reporter Reid Ochs wrote that Wilcox had first >rebuffed his attempts to interview him, then later agreed only >reluctantly. A year and a half later, when another journalist >wanted to speak with him, he would write, "Mr. Wilcox did not >seem particularly happy to see a reporter show up on his farm." >NICAP investigators Stephen Putnam and Walter Webb spoke >separately with Wilcox. Webb characterized him as a "typical, >laconic, apple-cheeked young farmer who keeps to himself and is >wary of outsiders." >The only negative evidence I was able to come up with when I >reviewed the literature, published and unpublished, consisted of >a couple of contradictions about the way the aliens communicated >and the way the UFO departed. Possibly, the contradictions can >be explained as misquotes, but after all this time, we're >unlikely ever to know for sure. All we know is that years later, >before he dropped out of sight altogether, Wilcox was standing >by his story and continuing to avoid publicity. That's more than I hoped to learn! Sounds solid on the face of it, which leaves me pulling my beard. Here's a solid sounding guy, people vouching for him and all, with what sounds like a "tall tale". A tough one. Thanks for all the info! Best - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 05:25:13 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Hebert >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:36:32 -0600 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >>Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:17:04 -0800 (PST) >>>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >>>Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:51:26 -0600 >>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:56:09 -0800 (PST) >>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >>>>Correct again. This is not supposed to be the exercise they >>>>conducted. And the spokesman from Davis_monthan said they had >>>>all returned by 8:30 PM that night. If so, who dropped the >>>>10 PM flares? >>>According to... a spokesman for Davis-Monthan - the >>>Air Force again? >>Amy, they are the source of the flare story in the first place. >>If you mean to imply they fabricated the flare story, well, you >>could be right. >You indicate that according to Davis_Monthan spokesman, all >planes had returned by 8:30pm. Do you believe the Davis_Monthan >spokesman was telling the truth? Yes, to the best of his knowledge. He could always be mistaken, but I have no sound reason to disbelieve him. >>>>This is correct again and according to the Air Force and the >>>>manufacturer could be seen for up to 90 miles as bright white >>>>lights. >>>According to... the Air Force (and manufacturer). >>Do you have different facts? >Do you believe the Air Force was telling the truth about the >color of the flares? Yes, as I confirmed this with the manufacturer of the LU-U2 flares. I said nothing about the Phoenix Lights to him. I just indicated that I was researching various types of aerial flares. He thought that I was some government inspector checking up on him, but I assured him that my interest was purely academic. He said that this type of flare is most often loaded with magnesium powder and burns bright white. When I worked in Aerospace years ago, an electrical engineer demonstrated how readily a slug of magnesium burns and it burns hot and bright and looks pure white. >>>Is this not the same Air Force that has told the public for >>>decades that UFO's are nothing more than misidentifications of >>>Venus, Jupiter and/or conventional aircraft, etc.? Is this not >>>the same Air Force that has been accused of withholding >>>information about UFO's from the public for many, many years? >>Yes, sure. And why not? >Can you clarify your statement "why not"? I'm not sure what you >are saying. In the case of UFO sightings of the past, the AF had an interest in explaining the sightings as best as they could. This was also in accord with the decisions made by the Robertson Panel. The idea was to diffuse any panic the public might spread by intimations of an invasion (alien or otherwise). In the case of the Phoenix Lights, the idea was in keeping with previous efforts to explain sightings. According to their records (I have a copy of some of these obtained through FOIA) the Maryland Air National Guard was conducting exercises on the Barry Goldwater Test Range. Since such exercises are common and involve the release of night illumination flares, it was a shoe-in to explain the lights by disseminating the info about Operation Snowbird. >>>Bill, you seem to accept what the "Air Force" says when it >>>supports your contentions but reject their statements when they >>>do not agree with your contentions (re: the lights = flares). >>>Why do you believe them one minute yet deny their statements the >>>next? How do you determine when they are telling the truth and >>>when they are not? >>You are not reading correctly, Amy. I state what the AF says, >>but I am saying that observations do not agree. >There does seem to be a contradiction between what the Air Force >says and what was observed that night. One could use these >statements to support the contention that the lights seen at >10:30pm could not have been flares because: 1) supposedly there >were no planes flying to drop the flares at 10:30pm and, 2) any >flares dropped would have burned white not gold. The lights were seen at 10:00 PM, and flares should have been reported by the residents of Gila Bend or, if they were as far south as Dr. Bruce thinks they were, then they should have been seen in Tucson. We were about 20 miles closer to these lights than Mike Krysten, close enough to see that the light on the far left was a double (making 9 lights altogether). The lights were seen at very low elevation (no more than 10-15 deg off the horizon) and I was sure that I could just make out the top of the mountain behind the double light. This caused me to wonder if this was a light on a structure in the mountains at first. These lights had the purest amber-gold color (not reddened with distance) and appeared to be no more than 20 miles away. When I have seen bright lights at 60 to 80 miles away, they are dimmed by the distance and the atmosphere whereas these were not. There are too many discrepancies between these lights and flares. That these lights might have been a secret military operation cannot be ruled out as similar orb lights have been seen around aerospace facilities (at known closer distances). They are extremely peculiar because their light emission does not reflect off surroundings. >However, to support such a contention, one must assume the Air >Force was telling the truth about the planes returning to base >by 8:30pm and the flares burning white instead of gold. If we >assume the Air Force was telling the truth about the planes and >the color of the flares, we must also assume they were telling >the truth about the lights seen at 10:30pm being flares. Not necessarily. They have stated that they believe it can account for the sightings and their first statements indicate very clearly that they meant the 8:30 sightings, not the 10:00 sightings. Peculiarly, the Maryland ANG never came forth to state where the flares were dropped, how many, and what time. None of the FOIA docs I have say anything about flares at all! This is most peculiar as if they are being deliberately evasive, but why would the Air Force be evasive. Luke AFB , who authorizes the use of the Barry Goldwater test range, responded to their FOIA request that they knew nothing about flares on the test range that night. The only place the ANG said they conducted the exercise and released flares was on the North Tac Range, about 35-40 miles from our position and away from the direction indicated by Dr. Bruce. These are more discrepancies. >Either the Air Force was lying about everything - the planes and >the color of the flares - or they were telling the truth. Can't >have it both ways or accept one part as truth and reject the >rest as a lie. Please read what I wrote above and you can see that we are not trying to have it both ways. I believe, for now, that the AF was telling the truth. This produces discrepancies. Nothing is rejected. We need more information is all. >Do you believe the Air Force was telling the truth, Bill? Yes, for now.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Damaged Goods - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:01:21 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Damaged Goods - Goldstein >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Damaged Goods >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:38:50 -0000 >Hi All, >Earlier this week I received two CD ROMs from Max Burns >containing a BUFORA lecture he recorded in London on December of >last year. <snip> >After taking the discs out of the packaging I saw that not one >but both had been scratched beyond repair. <snip> >I then spoke to Chris Martin, he told me of a video that was >sent to him last year (still UFO related), it arrived in pieces. >'It looked like someone had stamped on it then pulled out the >tape' he said. ><snip> >I don't normally subscribe to all this conspiracy theory stuff, >all a little too X-Files for my liking, but I'm starting to >wonder. >Has anyone on this list had a similar experience? >If anybody is interested in receiving the free CD's you can >contact Max at: >maxburns@ufon.org >or >maxburns2002@yahoo.com Hi Dave, I don't know about any conspiracy that may be affecting your mail but I am in the music busines and at times I have had mail damaged and lost. A long time ago a music star I had met sent me a very rare test pressing (artist and producer approval pressing worth a great deal of money to collectors) as a personal gift. It was a surprise and I found out about it when the mail person was at my door with a crumpled manila envelope. The envelope contained a lot of pieces of broken vinyl. The artist had sent the record alone and not in cardboard or anything to protect it from damage. The lesson is to pack well to protect the contents from rough mail handling and insure everything. For what it is worth attach fragile stickers and go after the postal company if anything is lost or subject to rougher than usual handling. So much UFO related material gets sent through the mail undamaged every day that I don't think there is a conspiracy to block such mail. But there may be a conspiracy against you and the people you know. Please remember that just because you think they are after you doesn't mean that you are paranoid. Please don't think about marching on your post office with gun in hand to eliminate the conspiracy. But then again, how else can you stop them from interfering with your mail? Take care and pack well, Josh
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 'Looking For Orthon' A Book On George Adamski From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:10:17 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: 'Looking For Orthon' A Book On George Adamski Hi All, I received the following communiqu=E9 from the author of the following book on George Adamski. I share it with the list. ****************** Dear Roy Hale, I am a feature writer for the Fortean Times here in Britain. Perhaps you might like to take a look at my latest book. It is within your own interest area. Cheers, Colin ----- Looking For Orthon by Colin Bennett Chapters 1. When we Imagine We Create a Form of Life 2. Meeting in the Desert 3. Saucer Nights on Palomar 4. Enter Desmond Leslie 5. Orthon s Shoes and Mr. Silas Newton 6. Cargo Perspectives 7. The Ufonauts are the Liars, Not the Contactees 8. The Doll s House Machine 9. The Last Contact 10. Entertainment State is Born 11. Management of Mysteries 12. The Sub Plot 13. America Mystica: 1958 14. Adamski s 1959 World Tour 15. Winter on the Magic Mountain 16. Miracles Must be Small and Not Happen Very Often 17. Things that Haunt the Outer Edge Afterward Adamski had something in him of the dark genius of the covered wagon and riverboat rascals of Mark Twain and Herman Melville. Like Howard Hughes and L. Ron Hubbard, he brought down fire, if not from heaven, certainly from an elemental somewhere. But unlike Hughes and Hubbard, he didn t make any money, and so America ignored him. But America will have to face Adamski sooner or later, and bring him, if reluctantly, into the pantheon of scarred American heroes. Like many with a streak of genius, he didn t really know the difference between work and play, dream and religious impulse, inspiration and rational thought. But his faulty intellectual grasp saved him: it allowed him to play with all these things, and in playing he chanced upon something that talked to him. But like Francois Seurel in Alain-Fournier s novel Le Grand Meaulnes, Adamski was to lose the enchanted house in the forest that once he saw. Like Ahab, the quest finally consumed him, and like Hemingway s Old Man, he was left with only fragments of wonder as a magical defiance of time and decay. When we say that what Adamski saw was created by his imagination, we show how far our world has fallen, not progressed. We seem to have forgotten that there is nothing at all which is not conceived by the imagination, and that includes fact in itself. In forgetting this, we have lost the long trail between the ravings of visionaries in back rooms,the launch of a space station, and the death of a President. If Adamski s life can do anything at all, it can teach us how to rediscover that trail. This study of Adamski has got to be one of the most eagerly- awaited UFO books to appear in the last few years. A worthy book indeed for every student of flying saucers. (Bob Girard, Arcturus Books) Bennett walks a subtle, sophisticated, and brilliant line between idolatry on the one hand and harsh scientific scepticism on the other. (Gazelle Books Esoterica Catalogue) One of the most brilliantly written UFO books I have ever come across Jeff Rense, Paranet Radio No book better illuminates how UFO lore originated than Looking for Orthon Louise Lowry, World of the Strange Colin Bennett lives in London, and he is the author of two novels, The Infantryman s Fear of Open Country and The Entertainment Bomb. His book on Charles Fort, Politics of the Imagination is to be published by Head Press Manchester (info.headpress@telinko.co.uk) in May 2002. This book has a Foreword by John Keel, author of The Mothman Prophecies, now made into a major film starring Richard Gere. Colin Bennett will be giving a talk, Scepticism as Mystique at the Fortean Unconvention in April this year. Copies of Looking for Orthon may be obtained from Amazon, Arcturus Books (rgirard321@aol.com), or in Great Britain from: Susanne Stebbing, 41 Terminus Drive, Herne Bay Kent CT 66 PR s.stebbing@bushinternet.com Lionel Beer, 115 Hollybush Lane, Hampton, Middlesex TW12 2QY (020 8979 3148) Turnaround Publisher Services, Unit 3, Olympia Trading Estate, Coburg Road, Wood Green, London N22 6TZ 0208 829 3000. ISBN 1-931044-32-5 Published by Paraview Press 1674 Broadway, Suite 4B, New York NY1009 ----- Best to all & Happy Easter (I am just tucking into a creamy egg!!) Roy Hale is Web Master of The Lost Haven http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk And Editor of: Down To Earth Magazine. Articles On the UFO Subject, Buy On Line Research CDs, FREE Downloads, Business Marketing, Web Links, Art & Culture and much more!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Upcoming Video From: Francis Knize <Frankknee@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:48:40 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 04:04:00 -0500 Subject: Upcoming Video [Non=Subscriber Post] This is a request for your recommendations for interviews to be conducted on Politicians for a major Disclosure project video soon to be released. Please include contact points like email addresses. Consult with Bill Hamilton or Stephen Bassett for credibility inquires about our production, which by the way will be hosted by Richard Dolan. We were there on May 9th and have beautiful footage. Steve Bassett will be interviewed in a few days (along with Maccabee who may not even know he will be?) Also recommend Networks who would not be so controlled by National Security which may have interest. NS does NOT want this project released. Who are the "fighters for a better world"? Contact me at: frankknee@aol.com Francis C. P. Knize Producer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Damaged Goods - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:44:52 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:26:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Damaged Goods - Shough >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Damaged Goods >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:38:50 -0000 >After taking the discs out of the packaging I saw that not one >but both had been scratched beyond repair. >I then spoke to Chris Martin, he told me of a video that was >sent to him last year (still UFO related), it arrived in pieces. >'It looked like someone had stamped on it then pulled out the >tape' he said. >All this reminds me of something that happened about two years >ago. >I sent a floppy disk with an image and a document file to Nick >Pope, he knew it was on the way and said he'd phone when he gets >it. >Nick rang me and said he got the floppy but the metal slider had >been bent back and the disk had been damaged. >I don't normally subscribe to all this conspiracy theory stuff, >all a little too X-Files for my liking, but I'm starting to >wonder. >Has anyone on this list had a similar experience? Hi Dave, Just for fun, I can share with you two experiences that I think belong in this category. Both date back quite a few years. The first, in about 1980, was the sort of thing that probably isn't remarkable to anyone but the victim - in this case me. A long and painstakingly referenced and footnoted typescript, the sort of mythological recontextualising of UFOs that may even have endeared me to the Pelican, was mislaid by the UK Post Office at a derisory rate of compensation of =A36.00 Sterling. The probability of this loss can be gauged from the fact that I have to my knowledge had only two items of mail mislaid in my life (the other was at Christmas 2001 and equally if inversely extraordinary, inasmuch as I'd wished fervently that I hadn't sent it!) The second experience doesn't involve mail but speaks to the same sense of nagging paranoia. This concerned UFO matters which probably would not warm the Pelican's heart. I was deep into an engrossing study of the "classic" RAF Lakenheath/Bentwaters radar case in 1986. Returning from an invitation to sit in on a BUFORA committee meeting at the London Business School to discuss progress (though there was little, and scant discussion) I stopped in at a bar near Victoria Coach Station for a reviver, clutching my briefcase full of documents about Lakenheath and what I had concluded was probably a cover- up of a highly irregular response to a perceived "threat" by various UK/USA defence intelligence interests. Before heading home I paid a visit to what most readers of this List probably know as the men's room, found a cubicle and closed the door. Turning to hang up my jacket my eyes fell on something that even now I find almost too strange to dwell on. Scratched into the paint was the following message: NICK, DANGER - RAF LAKENHEATH If anyone has any idea what to make of that little gem of synchronicity I'd love to hear from them. Martin Shough
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.1.02 From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 13:30:36 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:31:00 -0500 Subject: Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.1.02 ERAS NEWS The E-News Service of The Eras Project http://www.geocities.com/erasproject April 1, 2002 _____________________________ WEEKLY BRIEFING 4.1.02 EXOBIOLOGY The Search for Extraterrestrial Life Possible Evidence of Chlorophyll on Martian Surface: Search for Spectral Signatures of Life at the Pathfinder Landing Site - Second Astrobiology Science Conference http://www.astrobiology.com/asc2002/abstract.html?ascid=3D371 Cydonian Imperative: Ellipsoidal Formations Near Cerberus Platform http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html QUANTA Science and Technology Up, Up and Away: NASA to Test Antigravity Device http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-000021224mar24.story?coll=3Dla-news-s= cience Mars Odyssey's THEMIS Begins Posting Daily Images http://clasdean.la.asu.edu/news/marspost.htm Human Mars Project Studied by US and Russia http://space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem How to Land Softly on a Hard Planet http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/solar_system/features/airbags.html The Moon's Malapert Mountain Seen As Ideal Site for Lunar Lab http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/moon_mountain_020326.html The Space Elevator Comes Closer to Reality http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_elevator_020327-1.h= tml 'Garden Hose' Stars Suggest Primordial Planets http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/27/star.dust/index.html Why We Fear Ourselves More than Asteroids http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/asteroid_fears_020326-1.ht= ml BIOSPHERE Environment Baffling Black Blob Floating Near Florida http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/03/27/black.blob/index.html Satellite Spots Mystery Patch of Black Water Near Florida http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/black_water_020322.html ____________________________ Eras News is the e-news service of The Eras Project, providing the latest news, reports and updates, including the Weekly Briefing, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe Eras News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca To unsubscribe, send an e-mail with Unsubscribe Eras News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Eras Project is a non-profit future studies project focusing on the leading-edge news, events, ideas and discoveries that will shape the future of humanity as we enter the 21st Century and a new Era. 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522 Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/erasproject =A9 The Eras Project, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Secrecy News -- 04/01/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:31:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:33:24 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/01/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 26 April 1, 2002 ** PALESTINIAN NONVIOLENCE: A ROAD NOT TAKEN ** STATE DEPT HISTORIANS WARN OF "FRICTION" WITH CIA PALESTINIAN NONVIOLENCE: A ROAD NOT TAKEN Late last month, Palestinian television stations began broadcasting a six-part series on the history and practice of nonviolent resistance. With the ascendance of Palestinian suicide bombers, however, the Palestinian resistance to Israel has embarked on a radically opposite course. The TV series, entitled "More Effective Force," was favorably reviewed by PLO official and Bir Zeit University philosophy professor Sari Nusseibeh, writing in the Arabic newspaper Al Quds. "Resorting to the strategy of nonviolence and its weapons by a primarily unarmed people can directly deprive the Israelis of the advantage of being the stronger military power," Prof. Nusseibeh wrote. "It will redefine the rules of the game in the battlefield and enable the unarmed Palestinians laboring under the burden of occupation to take the initiative and launch an attack that cannot be repulsed." See his March 20 commentary, translated by the CIA's Foreign Broadcast Information Service, here: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/03/aq032002.html Prof. Nusseibeh's published remarks stress the tactical advantages of nonviolent resistance, but do not quite encompass its philosophical underpinnings of loving the enemy. "My non-cooperation has its root not in hatred, but in love," Gandhi wrote. ("National Independence in Not Enough"). Likewise, Martin Luther King admonished an angry crowd after his house was bombed: "We want to love our enemies -- be good to them. This is what we must live by, we must meet hate with love. We must love our white brothers no matter what they do to us." (Quoted lately by K. Anthony Appiah in the New York Review of Books). Love of Israel is not a prominent theme in Prof. Nusseibeh's essay, which also includes not a word of criticism of Palestinian violence and goes so far as to say that the "Palestinian struggle is one of the few brilliant examples in the history of struggles for national independence." It is pointless to criticize Palestinians or Israelis for not achieving the ideal of Gandhian nonviolence. Hardly anyone has achieved it. But an understanding of that ideal helps to illuminate the profound evil of the suicide bombers, who have nevertheless been embraced as "martyrs" by the Palestinian mainstream. Briefly put, the practice of nonviolent resistance (ahimsa) affirms the humanity of one's opponent even when that opponent is acting with the utmost injustice. Under the right circumstances, nonviolence can elicit a change of consciousness in the opponent, while laying the foundation for a common future. As improbable as it sounds, its truth has actually been demonstrated. By contrast, the suicide bombers negate the humanity both of their targets and of themselves, while undermining any hope for a common future. As embodiments of radical hatred, these murderers deliberately seek to kill non-combatants, and do not distinguish between young and old, or even, most recently, between Arab and Jew. Theirs is a mindset that has the potential to extinguish life on Earth. Unless the Palestinians can find it within themselves to delegitimize the cult of murder-suicide, they will continue to pose a danger to their neighbors and themselves, and any future independence they may win will be unstable. "I cannot love Moslems or Hindus and hate Englishmen," Gandhi wrote. "For if I love merely Hindus and Moslems because their ways are on the whole pleasing to me, I shall soon begin to hate them when their ways displease me, as they may well do any moment." STATE DEPT HISTORIANS WARN OF "FRICTION" WITH CIA "Significant friction between the [State Department Historian's Office] and the CIA ... frustrated the timely compilation and publication" of the official Foreign Relations of the United States (FRUS) series, according to the latest annual report of the State Department Historical Advisory Committee. "The CIA continues to deny HO [Historian's Office] historians the right to quote or cite material from the President's Daily Briefs (PDBs)," wrote Committee Chair Robert D. Schulzinger in a cover letter to Secretary of State Colin Powell. "The President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB) denies HO historians the ability to consult, cite or quote PFIAB records." "These denials set a dangerous precedent and may compromise the integrity of future FRUS volumes," Prof. Schulzinger wrote. "The FRUS series is a jewel in American democracy," the new annual report said. The report referred discreetly to the CIA's continuing efforts to block release of a pending FRUS volume on Greece, Cyprus and Turkey, which it termed "a vexing issue." The report was transmitted to the Secretary of State on February 28 and made publicly available last week. The text is posted here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/advisory/state/hac01.html ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: unsubscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Hynek Knew About Roswell In 1976? From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:05:34 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:34:58 -0500 Subject: Hynek Knew About Roswell In 1976? List, I'm reading 'The God Hypothesis' by Joe Lewels, Ph.D. In it, he relates driving the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek to the airport after a lecture and asking him if there were any subjects Hynek considered too controversial to bring up publicly. Hynek reportedly said that he had spoken to an AF colonel who had confided to him that a craft had crashed in Roswell and that bodies had been recovered. While Hynek couldn't prove it, he was disturbed by the implications. This was in 1976. Does Lewels have his chronology confused or am I missing something? So far as I know, Roswell didn't "go public" until '79. ===== Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) (816) 561-0190 105 Ward Parkway #900, Kansas City, MO 64112 Visit http://mactonnies.com Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 CCCRN News: Formation Reports Archive Updated From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 07:22:51 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:36:49 -0500 Subject: CCCRN News: Formation Reports Archive Updated CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada April 2, 2002 _____________________________ FORMATION REPORT ARCHIVES UPDATED (1999, 1998, 1994, 1993) The revamping and updating of the online formation report archives is nearing completion finally, with the re-addition now also of 1999, 1998, 1994 and 1993. I am trying to get the older archives as up to date as possible before the 2002 season begins. The media archives for these years have also been updated. Also, a few additional photos have been added to Midale #4, 5 and 6, 2001 and the second photo of the 'radial pattern' anomaly at Midale #5, 2001 has been added, which shows the rippled fan- like pattern coming off of one side of the formation from a different perspective view (see News and Updates on the web site). http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada There is also a second rumoured formation just reported, a circle in grass or wheat (winter wheat?) near Edmonton, Alberta, March 15, 2002. Farmer is said to be a Chipewyan Native Indian tribe member. E-mail to supposed primary witness has yielded no response yet. ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca To unsubscribe, send an e-mail with Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522 Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Shockingly Close to Publication! From: Karl Pflock <Ktperehwon@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:05:51 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:40:34 -0500 Subject: Shockingly Close to Publication! Warning! Shameless Huckster Pitch Follows Hi All, Jim Moseley's and my Shockingly Close To The Truth! - Confessions Of A Grave-Robbing Ufologist (finally!) will be off the presses in a few days. Anyone wanting a copy autographed by both of us and inscribed to you personally by Yrs Trly may order one directly from me NOW for a mere $28.00 (U.S. funds only, por favor; checks, etc., made out to Karl Pflock), shipping and handling included. Send your orders to: Karl Pflock, PO Box 1569, Bernalillo, NM 87004-1569 Orders for multipule copies will NOT be refused. I will begin shipping as soon as I have books, which should be ~April 15. Orders will be filled in the order they are received. (Bribes...uh...love offerings to be allowed to jump the line cheerfully accepted.) See below for some of our very positive advance notices. Whee! Cheers & many thx, KARL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Shockingly Close To The Truth! by James W. Moseley & Karl T. Pflock Hardcover / 371 pp. / 51 photos / Appendix / Bibliography / Index -- Robert Anton Wilson, futurist and bestselling author of The Illuminatus Trilogy: "I found Shockingly Close to the Truth! shockingly close to sanity and common sense. The authors expose clownery, absurdity, and logical lapses on all sides of the UFO mystery, but quite frankly admit that much of the phenomenon continues to perplex and bedevil them. My God, this is shockingly close to honesty!" -- George Earley, pioneer ufologist, Fate & UFO book reviewer: "It's a hoot!" -- George Eberhart, Center for UFO Studies, in Booklist: "Moseley, a keen observer of the UFO scene for nearly 50 years... chronicles his adventures with serious researchers as well as the many 'saucer fiends'... that inhabit the wackier regions of 'ufology'.... Is it all true? Perhaps it's shockingly close to the truth." -- Joel Achenbach, Washington Post, author of Captured by Aliens and Why Things Are: "A refreshing, slightly unhinged, vivid memoir of a life chasing the unknowable." -- Publishers Weekly: "Fifty years of UFO sightings and alien obsession is amusingly documented." Order from: Karl Pflock, PO Box 1569, Bernalillo, NM 87004-1569 $28.00 (U.S. funds only) per autographed copy, shipping and handling included.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Runcorn UK Conference - Final Details From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:44:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:42:33 -0500 Subject: Runcorn UK Conference - Final Details Dear UpDates, Several people have e-mailed us asking about our Sat. April 20th Conference in Runcorn, Cheshire. Here are the final details; Tickets, just =A35, available on the door. All proceeds to charity, as before. Event runs from 11am-5pm. Speakers: Philip Mantle, former DofI with BUFORA. Speaking on The Alien Autopsy Film. Latest information. If you read his UFO Magazine (UK) article you'll want to know more. Phil has all the latest information on the AA Film. Is the AA Film the real deal? More evidence! Tim Matthews. Speaking on a range of topics. He's Britain's most exciting Conference speaker! This time he'll be talking about the latest on so-called 'Nazi' UFOs, secret man-made UFO projects, crop circles, an incredible new lead on the Roswell crash landing, Frank Carlson - Papoose Lake Insider, the truth about British government documents and much more. Don't miss Tim's talk. Dynamite! Unmissable. Eric Morris. Britain's leading expert on close encounters. Coming from an expert medical background and having worked with claimed experiencers, Eric's research is vital. Lately, he's been researching Rendlesham Forest and come up with some fascinating new leads. At this event you'll hear the TRUTH about Rendlesham that others fear to expose. All this and much more, supported by big screen overhead, video and slide projection. Just a fiver. Tickets selling well, but still available. Contact, bufosc@hotmail.com for further information on phone (01606) 330567/(07740) 743415 or the message centre on (07903) 256530. Thanks.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Spokane, Washington - Update From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:33:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:47:55 -0500 Subject: Spokane, Washington - Update Hi List Boy this one sounds really interesting and I have been trying like heck to get some replies from people over this. The funny thing is, I darn near almost get at least most or some replies back from authorities who I write to requesting information. So far not a word. Seems strange to me. Take care ----- Spokane, Washington Update: Sightings continue from February's report Hello Brian. Hope all is well. Just wanted to tell you of several things happening here in the Spokane area. First of all, there was a LOT of activity last night, and believe me, this is no April Fool's. It started at around 8:00 PM with a number of smaller lights coming in from the West - traveling to the Northeast - and then moving downward and flickering out. After between 5 to 20 minutes I would see a bright flare on or near the ground where the light had disappeared, and then see the light rising about 1000 to 2000 feet above the ground and continuing toward the NE. I also saw a number of aircraft flying near and around the area even at times when the lights were moving around. The aircraft would not appear to "confront" the lights, but merely fly by like they were observing. This activity continued through at least 11:30 PM when I had to get to bed. At about 10:00 PM, a much brighter, bigger light moved into a location nearer to me - I estimate between 5 to 8 miles away. The light were primarily cream/fluorescent colored and configured in two bright "headlights" (00) although at times I thought I could see smaller lights around a perimeter as well. This light flared up real bright, and I was snapping pictures like mad, going from longer to shorter shutter speeds to try to capture more detail. After about 1 to 2 minutes, the light dimmed, rotated, and began moving away toward the West. Now, most incredibly, I then saw a dull orange "smudge" near the horizon which was quite large. I initially thought it was the orange sodium vapor lights of a housing development, but then I noticed the glow appeared too far above the horizon. When I looked at it through my camera/telescope I could see a VERY large dull orange shape tilting up and moving away from me to the West. About a minute later I could see a very faint red light and a blue light on a plane, moving away in unison - as if they were affixed to some solid object. Brian, these light were at least 10 -15 miles away from me, but from the distance between the blue and the red light I would conservatively guess that it was at least 1/4 mile in length ! I kept shaking my head and muttering to myself (pardon the language) "What in the hell?" I kept thinking "that just can't be !" I tried to take a couple of short time exposure photos, but because of how faint the lights were, I'm not too hopeful. A couple of other short notes before I go. I finally heard back from the local military air base after a week, and the airman seemed quite terse with me. She simply stated that the Air Force knew nothing that she could report. I then called the FAA because they operate the radar for both the Spokane International airport as well as the air base. The gentleman that I talked to said they knew nothing not only of the lights, but of all the aircraft as well. I find that incredible considering that these planes have been flying every night since Feb. 4 in the airspace immediately south of the City of Spokane - AND, at times directly West of the radar dome that sits on Mica peak. Sounds odd to me. He said he would pass my report on to his supervisor, and asked for my name, address and telephone number "in case his supervisor wants to contact me". I reluctantly gave him my name, telephone number and the name of the small town I live near. But didn't want to give out my address. I guess I just feel kind of paranoid. (By the way, I currently can see 4 aircraft flying out around the valley - they certainly are persistent). One last thing, I have also been seeing quite a few very small, singular blinking lights moving about the sky, particularly when the larger lights are active. These lights are primarily blue, white and occasionally red. Have you heard of these kind of lights before ? Let me know what you think about all this will you?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Stephen Coonts Weighs In On UFOs From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 21:23:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:53:54 -0500 Subject: Stephen Coonts Weighs In On UFOs Finally, something we can sink our teeth into - from Unka Fooley.... I'm a-goin' to try to find a copy of the Coonts book Tomorrow! What great timing for coinciding with the publication of UPWH! Maybe I should get someone to write a movie screen-play focused on the Carter regime's mailroom when those thousands of citizen letters came a-floodin' over the transom, causing a ruckus amidst the White House staff, its advisors, and the Cabinet (the protagonist could be the mailroom chief, who took it upon himself to squirrel away the juicer letters for his own, alert- the-public-later use... drama, conflict, humor, political intrigue - where's my agent when I need one?!). ----- From: CloudRider@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 18:36:26 EST Subject: Stephen Coonts weighs in on UFOs with "Saucer," just published! To: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Run, don't walk, to your nearest book rack and pick up a copy of Stephen Coonts' just published latest book, "Saucer." At last, something on a par with "Doherty's!" It's hitting stores now, in paperback (not to be published in hardback) as of March. Published by St. Martin's Griffin, New York (distributed in Canada by H. B. Fenn & Co.), it's 340 pages and sells for $14.95. ISBN 0-312-28342-3. Go get it today!!! Here's a priceless excerpt, used here for review purposes according to publisher's guidelines. Here's the SITREP: a seismic survey worker in the Sahara finds a saucer in the sandstone, where it's been for 140,000 years. The USAF sends a team of UFO investigators, which gets there minutes before another team sent by an Australian billionaire to steal the saucer's secrets. Then while the two sides consider what to do to screw each other over, the Libyan military shows up. As the seismic survey guy has been checking out the inside of the saucer with "a beautiful ex-Air Force test pilot," and as things heat up in the desert, these two fly off in the saucer, into space and around the world, keeping just ahead of those who want the saucer's secrets. After the two "saucerians" have been flying around for a while in the ancient craft, which is responsive to their thoughts as conveyed by a transducer array... (it was designed for, and by, humans, so the story goes) ... how the world reacts to it is a priceless tale, similar to that we've seen already in "retail UFOlogy" and New Age "ban weapons in space" peacenik Green alien politics, especially so now that ET is again in theaters propagandizing another generation of youthful, hopeful Earthpups. Coonts or some of his buddies have obviously been "reading our mail" for some time, and his characterizations of what it (UFO mania) might be like in the West Wing of the White House are a hilarious and dead-on rendering of what we know things were like inside the Clintonista enclave as Larry Rockebucks and his Buckaroos stood at the gate crying, "Tell us UFO secrets! Tell us the secrets!" Here's verbatim a little of it, and it's but a tip of the iceberg. You've really got to get this book. Coonts "knows!" In this sequence, the senior Air Force general is trying to get a handle on all the saucer sightings coming in from around the world and from global air defenses, as things spiral out of control politically before anybody really knew "what, who, how many?" Note the political reactions and public responses, especially the media's. >From "Saucer," c. 2002 by Stephen Coonts (pp. 184-186): "General De Laurio, Space Command reports that a vehicle just went into orbit from a location in central Missouri. Liftoff was about twenty minutes ago. It is in orbit now, engines secured. Preliminary reports on the wire services seem to indicate the vehicle was extremely loud and saucer-shaped." De Laurio was back in the West Wing of the White House. He had sent home for a clean uniform and a toothbrush. Two hours ago he went over to the Pentagon for a short nap. P. J. O'Reilly (ed. note: presidential advisor) gave him a cold stare as he left. He felt as if he were abandoning the women and children aboard the Titanic while he rowed away in the only lifeboat, but he had to get a little sleep. "It's in orbit now?" Bombing Joe (De Laurio's nickname) asked the Pentagon duty officer. "Yes, sir. Achieved a sustainable orbit about five minutes ago. And General, apparently a National Guard F-16 on patrol over Missouri fired two Sidewinder missiles at it." "What? Say that again." The duty officer did so. "Who ordered armed patrols?" "I believe that order came from the White House, sir." "Who gave permission to open fire?" "Sir, that came from the White House." "Cancel it," De Laurio shouted. "Keep all those trigger happy morons on the ground. What if they shoot down a United jet?" "Well, sir, I think the White House understood that risk when -- " "You don't know these people. No one over there would take an iota of responsibility for an accident like that. Get all those airplanes on the ground and keep them there. That's a direct order. I'll take the responsibility." "Yes, sir." "I'll pass the Missouri launch stuff on to the president. How are we doing on springing that UFO team in Libya?" (ed note: the USAF team had been captured by Libya ;-) "State has people talking to them now. We'll know more in about a half an hour." "Call me back." "Yes, sir." Bombing Joe found O'Reilly in his office. "A National Guard F-16 just fired two Sidewinders at something," he told the president's man. "Apparently some damned fool gave orders for squadrons of fighters all over the country to fly armed patrols." "Watch your mouth, General. That 'damned fool' was the president. He felt he had to do something dramatic." "Why didn't he consult me? I don't even charge for professional opinions." "You were asleep at the Pentagon. We couldn't wait." "If some used-car salesman in a jet fighter shoots down an airliner full of voters, that will really be something dramatic, all right. Are you out of your mind? Get a grip, O'Reilly." "Shut up, De Laurio!" O'Reilly was on his feet, his face red. "You uniformed popinjays don't seem to realize that the fate of Western civilization is on the line." Before Bombing Joe could deck O'Reilly, the president darted into the room. He had just completed a press conference in which he had tried to look presidential. Never in his life had he had a day like this, not even when his mistress held a press conference in New York City to tell all. His face was ashen and his hands were shaking. "Damned flying saucers," he exclaimed as he plopped into a stuffed chair. "Why in hell didn't these things plague the last administration? Why me?" He tugged at the knot in his tie. "Because you deserve it," Bombing Joe De Laurio muttered under his breath. If anyone heard that remark he gave no indication. The general took a deep breath, silently counted to ten, then said loudly, "Mr. President." When he had the elected one's attention he told him about the report from Space Command. "A saucer went into orbit from central Missouri?" O'Reilly asked incredulously. "Apparently so, sir," Bombing Joe said. "And an F-16 fired two Sidewinders at it. Results unknown." "I don't believe a word of it," the president said firmly and leaned back in the padded chair. "I don't believe any of this horseshit." He dabbed at his brow with a handkerchief, careful that he didn't swab off any makeup. "The Washington Post wanted to know what this administration's position will be when aliens come to negotiate." "They really asked that?" O'Reilly seemed stunned. "The college professors say it's time to acknowledge the presence of other life-forms in the universe. The religious types are going nuts. There's a mob of a thousand or so across the street in Lafayette Park waving signs and making speeches, talking about the imminent arrival of the Anti-Christ." "It's that bad?" "It's that bad." The president's face contorted in a grimace. "I sacrificed everything for a career in politics. Now I'm the one who has to stand out there and welcome the aliens." "This is another right-wing conspiracy," P. J. O'Reilly declared. The telephone rang. General De Laurio grabbed it. He grunted a time or two, listened for about a minute, then carefully placed the receiver back on the hook. He shook his head, rubbed his eyes. 'Okay. Finally we get the real story." Both the president and chief of staff stared at him with their mouths hanging open. "There is only one flying saucer," Bombing Joe explained. "A seismic survey crew dug it out of a sandstone ledge in the Sahara Desert. The thing was in the stone since Noah was mucking stables on the Ark. It is now being flown by a former Air Force test pilot and one of the survey workers." The president was horrified. "Oh, my God!" he groaned. "There is no invasion from Planet X," Bombing Joe said, weighing each word, searching the president's face to see if he was getting through. "There is no fleet of saucers, no aliens out to conquer the universe, no androids who eat human flesh, no battle of Armageddon. This crisis has been caused by two idiots zipping around in a round artifact scaring the bejesus out of people." "Who says all this? What's your source?" O'Reilly demanded. "State got somebody in to see the UFO team that's being held in the central prison in Tripoli. The team was there with the saucer in the desert. They were actually inside it. The test pilot was on that team. When the Libyans showed up, she and a survey worker sneaked into the saucer amid all the excitement and flew it away." "Of all the rotten luck..." said the president, staring at his hands. He sagged back into the chair. "Why me, Lord? I just told the Post the aliens would be received like any other foreign dignitaries! I'm going to be laughed out of the White House." "I'm going to get something to eat," said Bombing Joe. He stood and marched out of the room before anyone could order him to remain. - - - - + End quote for review purposes, from "Saucer," by Stephen Coonts, c. 2002. Now, I'm going to get something to eat. "Watch the skies!" Truth sometimes IS stranger than fiction. In this case, it is. Dick Farley <cloudrider@aol.com> Washington, DC USA - - - - +
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Secrecy News -- 04/03/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:31:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:56:48 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/03/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 27 April 3, 2002 ** NASA SHUTTLE SECRECY: A WORK IN PROGRESS ** DOE SETS PENALTIES FOR SECRECY VIOLATIONS ** SECRECY IN THE NEWS NASA SHUTTLE SECRECY: A WORK IN PROGRESS The utility of the new NASA policy of keeping the Space Shuttle launch time a secret is being called into question after one NASA contractor published the launch time of an upcoming Shuttle mission on its web site late last week. Along with various other mission characteristics, Spacehab Inc. disclosed the launch time for STS-107, a July 2002 flight of the Space Shuttle Columbia that is considered particularly sensitive since it will be carrying an Israeli astronaut. The incident was described in "Slip-up reveals sensitive shuttle launch time," published in Spaceflight Now on April 1: http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0204/01sts107/ Allen Thomson, a space policy expert who spotted the inadvertent disclosure of the launch time, said it illustrates the limits of a security policy that is based on secrecy. Critics argue that the whole notion of withholding the launch time of a Shuttle flight to the Space Station is illusory and pointless. See "New NASA security plan lacks teeth" by Irene Brown, United Press International, April 1: http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=01042002-074038-5284r DOE SETS PENALTIES FOR SECRECY VIOLATIONS The Department of Energy will impose civil monetary penalties on contractors who violate classified information security regulations, according to a proposed rule that was published in the Federal Register on Monday: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/04/fr040102.html New monetary penalties for security violations were mandated by an agitated Congress in 1999 following allegations of nuclear espionage at DOE laboratories. In a burst of enthusiasm, however, Congress enacted a poorly crafted statute dictating penalties for mishandling of "classified or sensitive information." While everyone knows what "classified" means, there is no such thing as "sensitive information" in the Department of Energy, as a perplexed DOE General Counsel noted in January 2000: "Neither the Act nor DOE's existing regulations define 'sensitive information'." See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2000/01/sensitive.html Consequently, DOE did not implement this provision of the law in its new proposed rule, dismissing it with the observation that "there is no commonly accepted definition of 'sensitive information' within DOE or the Executive Branch." Meanwhile, a new DOE Inspector General report on security controls at DOE headquarters found that "The lapses cited in this report could have allowed unauthorized individuals entry into Department buildings and, within those buildings, access to areas containing classified information." See "Personnel Security Clearances and Badge Access Controls at Department Headquarters," DOE Inspector General Audit Report DOE/IG-0548, March 2002, published this week: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/ig_clearance.pdf SECRECY IN THE NEWS The Office of Homeland Security (OHS) has evaded public inquiries under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) as assuredly as it has resisted congressional oversight of its activities. In an attempt to compel a response, the watchdog Electronic Privacy Information Center filed a FOIA lawsuit yesterday seeking disclosure of "OHS documents that discuss new technical and legislative proposals that could lead to the creation of a national identification system." See: http://www.epic.org/open_gov/homeland/ Historian Hugh D. Graham, who died last week, was an outspoken critic of the Bush Administration's new policy limiting access to presidential records, and one of the plaintiffs in a pending lawsuit challenging that policy. See a Los Angeles Times obituary reprinted here: http://www.newsday.com/news/obituaries/ny- graham032652496apr03.story Pity the poor openness advocates. "These are especially tough times for exposing what the government is up to," according to an Associated Press story today. "The Bush Administration is secretive by nature and even more so by circumstance: Defining the boundaries of openness and secrecy has gotten more difficult since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." See "Washington's Secret-Busters Tested" by Deb Riechmann of the Associated Press here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54839-2002Apr3.html ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Sightings In The Western United States? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 02:06:23 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:00:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Sightings In The Western United States? - Hatch >From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:22:57 EST >Subject: Sightings In The Western United States? >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Dear List: >I am looking for information where I can locate UFO sighting >information from October through November of 1975, mainly in the >Southwest and into California, Oregon, and Washington. I am >looking for saucer sightings in pairs, or single sightings of >saucer type UFO's that were reported. Can anyone steer me in the >right direction? Website or researcher? Hello Jim: While Oct-Nov 1975 were two busy months, most of the action appeared to be elsewhere. The *U* Database registers these case counts: France: 19 Montana: 23 Ohio: 6 Colorado: 6 Calif. 6 Maine: 4 .. and it drops off from there. Here is the motley assortment I could call up for the desert southwest and west coast states. Needless to say, some have less than stellar credibility ratings. Sources listed are/were generally available: #11449: 1975/10?/?? 2140h 119:49:20W 34:33N SR154 NW/S.BARBARA,CA:40' SCR ON TRIPOD: OWL"/ROAD FLIES OVR CAR:30min/MST /R36: LINDEMANN,Michael ed.; 6 VIEWPOINTS. Pg 172 #11481: 1975/10/25 1900h 123:21W 41:48N HAPPY CAMP,CA:2+3 OBS:STAR MNVRS CLOSELY: SEMI-INVISIBLE FIGs SEEN:/r5p148 /R160: MUFON UFO JOURNAL, Issue No.121 #11494: 1975/10/30 0000h 103:15W 35:45N UNION+QUAY cos,NM:30+UFOs+COPTERS:4+CATTLE MUTd: NOW>13NOV:FAA INVOLVEMT/DENIED /R26 FAWCETT+GREENWOOD: UFO COVERUP. Page 102 #11504: 1975/11/?? 2300h 120:45W 37:46N 3313 SR108 E/OAKDALE,CA:2/CAR ABDd to CAVE!: TELEPATHIC CVS/3 OIDS:KNEE PAINS CURED! /R148 HAINES,Richard: C.E. of the 5th KIND Pg394 #11507: 1975/11/02 ????h 123:22W 41:47N HAPPY CAMP,CA:GROUP/LOCALS ABDd!. "TRANSPARENT GOLD EXISTS..ITS IN YOUR BIBLE".. /R5 VALLEE:CONFRONTATIONS: Page 148 #11517: 1975/11/5 1810h 110:35:20W 34:18N 9mi S/HEBER,AZ:TRAVIS WALTON ABD:OIDS:PSH: AIR/SCR GIVES HEADACHE:/r210v24#9+10 /R24 NICAP: UFO INVESTIGATOR for June '76 #11518: 1975/11/6 0230h 120:07W 40:23N SKEDADDLE Mtns,CA:GLOW-SCR W/ANTENNA LITES AREA: PACES 2 CAMPERS/TRUCK/15mi /R225 SPENCER,John W.: The UFO YEARBOOK: Pg. 38 #11532: 1975/11/10 0400h 105:35W 36:24N TAOS,NM:COP:110'CGR/TREETOP LVL:SLNT:CAR VIBRATES: OBJ VEERS >>NW/Mtns /R210 The APRO BULLETIN. Year 76 Month 1 #11561: 1975/11/25 1800? 117:00W 32:44:40N SPRING VALLEY,CA:1/CAR:BLOB/LITES E>W: DROPS 3 RED NLTS/40sec INTERVALS: /R210 The APRO BULLETIN. Year 76 Month 1 I regret that I simply do not have time to look up the original text. This is buried piles deep and would take a week or more. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Dan McEvoy? From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:23:40 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:59:13 -0500 Subject: Dan McEvoy? Hi folks, I'm wondering if any of you out there have ever heard of Dan McEvoy. This person is involved in 'investigating' the Jonathan Reed UFO Hoax and is one of its supporters. McEvoy claims to be involved or to have been involved with MUFON, the Center for UFO Studies and Hopkins' Intruder's Foundation. He claims to have been researching UFOs for 18 years and to have taught and lectured on the subject. While I readily admit I do not know every UFO researcher out there, I'm not readily finding info on McEvoy or any cases he investigated. The only references I can find are those about the Reed UFO Hoax. Which is surprising considering McEvoy's claims to have been in the UFO field for 18 years. If you have any information about this subject, please contact me privately. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Regards, Royce J. Myers III UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:14:43 +1200 (NZST) Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:07:39 -0500 Subject: Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' Greetings List People. I am not sure whether any of these point have been discussed on this list before so here goes. With the Codeword "Majestic" having been commonly associated with the now infamous "MJ-12" - do many researchers know that this codeword was inaugaurated in 1945 (nearly two years before the "Roswell Crash") in a matter quite divorced from the UFO Subject. The codeword "Olympic" was given to the planned invasion of Japan (plan inaugarated prior to the Atomic Bombs being dropped). This codeword "Olympic" was substituted with the codeword "Majestic" in 1945. Below are notes created from available sources back in February for everyones information, the web pages were accessible then as noted. I typed in the document from a copy I have here sent to me by a valued and respected research colleage in the USA. I submit this for peoples consideration and discussion as the matter of MJ-12 and its various "dubious origins" needs discussion on all aspects, the duplicity of codewords unlikely, particularly so close as these two years of 1945 and 1947. Regards Murray Bott Operation "Olympic" History and Disclosure. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Later re-named "Majestic". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Operation "Olympic" was the codename given to the proposed invasion of Japan to end the hostilities of World War Two. (WW2). - this codeword was later sustituted with the codeword "Olympic" ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` (Notes compiled by Murray Bott from available sources, February 2002 - there may be additional sources which discuss this subject.) 1. Meeting at White House : Monday, 18 June 1945.(and other dates) These can be found at: http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/bomb/large/meeting_mi nutes/text/bmi11tx.htm Codeword "Olympic" mentioned (for Invasion of Japan) 2. Letter dated 7 August 1946 from "CINCAFPAC Tokyo" to "War Department for WDGPD" which advised that operational plan "Olympic" was reduced in classification to "Restricted" with certain excepted portions. Letter also advised : that in view of JCS radio WX 47190 of 10 August 1945 which cancelled code word "Olympic" and substituted code word "Majestic". (Special Note:- copy typed out in text format is appended below) ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` 4. Codeword "Majestic" listed under US Navy Codewords at: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/NAVEXOS_P-474M.htm 5. Codeword "Olympic" listed under US Navy Codewords at: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/NAVEXOS_P-474O.htm 6. Codewords "Magic" and "Olympic" listed under US Army Codewords on webpage "http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/reference/code.htm" --- (special note:- A copy downloaded from this site is held electronicly although this site seems to be currently inaccessible) ####################################################################### Olympic/Majestic Document held. ############################### First Document. *************** headed "Reproduced at the National Archives" Along side this is a rubber stamp containing words Declassified Authority NND755010 by MM NARA Date 7/29/97 First document body is *********************** WAR DEPARTMENT Classified Message Centre INCOMING CLASSIFIED MESSAGE TOP SECRET TOT PARAPHRASE NOT REQUIRED. HANDLE TOP SECRET CORRESPONDENCE PER PARAS 51 (i) and 60 (a) AR-380-5 From:CINCAFFAC Tokyo TO: War Department for WFGPO No: C 63884 7th August 1946 In your radio WX 79139 of 28 October 1945. Operational plan "Olympic" was reduced in classification to restricted with certain excepted portions. In view of JCS radio WX 47190 of 10 August 1945 which cancelled the code word "Olympic" and substituted the code word "Majestic", was it the intention of the first cited radio to also reduce classification of code word "Majestic" to restricted. END ACTION: Gen Norstad INFO: Gen Spaatz, Gen Chamberlin, CSA CM IN 1472(7 Aug 46) DTG 070641Z ec TOP SECRET (Then Rubberstamps list) Gen McDonald Gen Everest Copy No 16 (rubber stamped) MC 5691 The Second Sheet of this document contains. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reproduced at the the National Archives Rubber Stamp containing words Declassified Authority NND755010 by MM NARA Date 7/29/97 (Rubber stamped) MC 5691 AUG 3 20 6 32 46 (following written numerals and Rubber Stamps) 9 Gen SpaatzDestroyed 10 Gen EarerDestroyed 11 Gen Chancey Destroyed 12 Gen weyland Gen Partridge Gen Anderson 13 Gen Mcdonald Gen Hood 14 Gen Everest (end of page two of this document) Second Document. **************** headed "Reproduced at the National Archives" Along side this is a rubber stamp containing words Declassified Authority NND755010 by MM NARA Date 7/29/97 Second Document body is. ************************ WAR DEPARTMENT Classified Message Centre INCOMING CLASSIFIED MESSAGE TOP SECRET TOT PARAPHRASE NOT REQUIRED. HANDLE TOP SECRET CORRESPONDENCE PER PARAS 511 and 60 (a) AR-380-5 P & O 312.1 TS (7 Aus 46) Executive Section Plans & Policy Group Plans & Operations Div Lt Col James Cantrell 72736 8 August 1946 CINCAFPAC Tokyo Japan Number WAR 96908 From WDGPO Both code words refered to your 63884 were declassified by JCS 8 October 1945. END NOTE: C 63994 is CN 1472 (7 Aug 46) ORIGINATOR: P & O DISTRIBUTION:AAF, ID, CSA CM-OUT-96908 (Aug 46) DYG 082056Zfd Restricted COPY no 19 -- Email : murrayb@win.co.nz Voice : 64-9-6345285 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' - From: Paul Thompson <MrApol@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:19:58 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:22:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' - >Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:14:43 +1200 (NZST) >From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' I recall that some 'documents' supposedly connected to the Alien Autopsy film claimed the recovery of the dead aliens was codenamed 'Anvil'. Operation Anvil, of course, was the invasion of southern France in August 1944 - my father participated in the landing! Needless to say, it is highly dubious that code names would be re-used. Even more curious, when the discrepancy over the name 'Anvil' was pointed out, the word disappeared from the so-called alien autopsy story. Paul Thompson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:52:21 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:25:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:09:53 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:53:07 -0600 >>>Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:26:29 +0000 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>>>Patient and gentle listfolk: >>>>"The Pelican notes, with ill-concealed glee, that America's ETH >>>>ufologists have recently become more agitated and paranoid than >>>>usual, having become aware of an insidious threat to their >>>>noble cause." >>The problem, which you fail to address, is that the Pelican's >>piece is dishonest.... >>claims that look very much like, not to put too fine a point on >>it, unmitigated falsehoods. >>Since we now know, however, that everything the Pelican claimed >>about "America's ETH ufologists" and their response to the film >>is malicious fiction, it is time for, if not an outright apology >>(which we would graciously accept and for which we would afford >>you all due credit), at least an admission of error. Or does >>being an English PSH ufologist mean never having to say you're >>sorry? >I would have thought that an English major should have been >familiar with the literary device of hyperbole and not have been >so lacking a sense of proportion as to describe it as "malicious >fiction" - it almost makes me think the Pelican might be right >about the 'paranoid' bit!. Not much of a response, I'm afraid. You have managed to evade every point I've raised, while feebling trying to switch the subject from the Pelican's shameless inventions - er, excuse me, "literary device of hyperbole" - to the alleged paranoia of those who expose the inventions. Not good. >It is interesting that you take such issue with one humourous >paragraph, and neglect the rest of the Pelican's argument. >Probably that tells us more about Jerome Clark than it does >about the Pelican. Now _there's_ a defense. I guess that from now on, I'll just assume that anything that isn't true or logical in the pages of Magonia is meant to be "humorous." All editors and writers take note: you now have the perfect dodge. Nonhumorously speaking, you've just told us, alas, more about yourself and your winged associate than you've told us about Jerome Clark and those hated heretics otherwise known as "America's ETH ufologists." Sorry , John: but I would have expected better of you. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Sightings In The Western United States? - From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:47:40 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:26:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Sightings In The Western United States? - >Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 02:06:23 -0800 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Sightings In The Western United States? >Hello Jim: >While Oct-Nov 1975 were two busy months, most of the action >appeared to be elsewhere. The *U* Database registers these case >counts: >France: 19 >Montana: 23 >Ohio: 6 >Colorado: 6 >Calif. 6 >Maine: 4 .. and it drops off from there. >Here is the motley assortment I could call up for the desert >southwest and west coast states. Needless to say, some have less >than stellar credibility ratings. Sources listed are/were >generally available: >#11449: 1975/10?/?? 2140h 119:49:20W 34:33N >SR154 NW/S.BARBARA,CA:40' SCR ON TRIPOD: >OWL"/ROAD FLIES OVR CAR:30min/MST >/R36: LINDEMANN,Michael ed.; 6 VIEWPOINTS. Pg 172 >#11481: 1975/10/25 1900h 123:21W 41:48N >HAPPY CAMP,CA:2+3 OBS:STAR MNVRS CLOSELY: >SEMI-INVISIBLE FIGs SEEN:/r5p148 >/R160: MUFON UFO JOURNAL, Issue No.121 >I regret that I simply do not have time to look up >the original text. This is buried piles deep and >would take a week or more. >Best wishes >- Larry Hatch Larry, thank you for putting in the leg work for me, I really do appreciate it! Jim Kelly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology - From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:54:26 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:29:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology - >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:8:16 -0500 >>Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:09:30 -0800 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >>Subject: Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology >>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology >>>Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:40:15 -0500 >>>>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:21:10 -0800 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >>>>Subject: Re: Billy Meier's ET Contact Assesses Ufology >>>>If aliens occasionally give a particular contactee a whole lot >>>>of evidence, as with Billy Meier, then they had better at the >>>>same time have dispensed a fair amount of deceptive >>>>evidence/information to keep the coverup intact. That means >>>>making sure that folk who don't know any better will keep the >>>>aliens' own contactee in a debunked status. (Prime Directive >>>>rule xy.) Keeping ufologists confused would seem to be part of >>>>the strategy. If they're not ready to face up to an alien >>>>presence whose technology seems like magic, and don't think >>>>aliens are smart enough to employ a comprehensive strategy, >>>>that's another indication that we're not yet ready for the >>>>coverup to be lifted. <snip> >>It's your choice, Jan. Do aliens speak only truths and all >>contactees are liars or deluded, or is there not a gray area >>between your black & white assumption? Perhaps as a scientist >>you should at least allow the possibility that aliens do not >>always speak the truth, and not all claimed contactees are >>non-genuine. >>Jim Deardorff >Hmmm. Seems you have edited much of what I said out. I don't >think I every proposed such a thing as you wrote in the above >paragraph. No matter. >I know Grand Admiral Zog, High Commander of the Rebel Reptilian >Expeditionary Fleet and Keeper of the Garden of War, has none >who will call him a liar. He would devour any who accused him of >such a thing. >So your aliens lie. While mine do see things in black and white. >They see three possible reactions to something, use it, ignore >it, or destroy it. >And they don't write things that are pronounced different than >they read, either. Dear Jan, List, Grand Admiral Zog, Errol, There are a few errors in your tomb, Jan. In your tome, Jan. First, Grand Admiral Zog is not a Grand Admiral. He's just a admiral. Big difference. Second, he does not see or write in black or white, he sees and thinks in color. Mostly red. Thridly ...thirdly, sorry, they do indeed write things twitch they ... which they can pronounce differently that that which they read. The bat rastards do it all the time. But the biggest thing which you failed to mention in all which you writ, was that this list has several grand admiral Zog's on it. And also a few CIA operatives. I can name them all, but Errol would then have to kill me. But I can tell you this, stay the heck away, Jan and all the rest of you guys, stay the hell away from one particular poster. Because when this poster posts, she will woo you over to her side in a heartbeat. We abuctatories call her the Grandest and most Admirable Chest in the fleet. Her name... I am so sorry, but it I were to tell you her name, I would have to kill myself. But it rhymes with Pia Zadora. Just don't go near New York City. They hang there. Just south of the Canal Street Fresh Wine Works. And when they get blitzed on Gripple, they always leave a mark. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 14 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:18:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:36:19 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 14 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 7, Number 14 April 2, 2002 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ LARGE SAUCER FLIES OVER DOWNTOWN OTTAWA Canada's UFO flap continued last week with the sighting of a large saucer over Ottawa, the national capital. On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 2 p.m., the huge object appeared over the city, heading north. The woman witness reported, "Right now, I'm still quite excited as today I saw a large flying saucer right over downtown Ottawa (population 323,340) at approximately 2 p.m." "I was visiting a friend in hospital in Hull (now Gatineau, Quebec - J.T.) for the afternoon today. He went back to his room to get changed because we were going to go outside for a while. So I stayed in the smoking room with a man I had talked to a few times before. This smoking room has a panoramic window view of downtown Ottawa and the hospital is located close to the Ottawa River." "Anyway, I was sitting there, watching TV, when all of a sudden the man said something to the effect of 'What the hell is that flying over there!?'" "I looked, expecting a kite or something, but it was this massive saucer. It seemed like at first it was hiding in the lower clouds" but then it revealed itself. "Right there, over downtown Ottawa, was the large craft! Its colour was dark gray metallic. Its shape was round. It was just, you know, the sort of thing I had always read about in UFO sightings. You could call it a classic flying saucer. The sighting lasted for about 30 seconds, then it disappeared out of view due to part of the hospital blocking the way. Its size was a little bigger than an airliner." "It was heading either north or northwest when last I saw it," she added, "It couldn't have been more than 400 feet (130 meters) above the skyscrapers of downtown Ottawa." (Many thanks to Sue Darroch of Para-Researchers of Canada for forwarding this report.) MORE UFO REPORTS SURFACE IN BRITISH COLUMBIA Two more UFO reports have surfaced in northern British Columbia as the result of last Saturday's feature story in the Smithers, B.C. Interior. One sighting took place in Smithers (population 5,624), a town on Provincial Highway 16 about 256 kilometers (160 miles) west of Prince George, B.C. According to ufologist Brian Vike, "The witness said that he had gone to rent a video from the Smithers Hollywood Video store" on Friday, February 1, 2002 at 10 p.m. "and, after he came out and got into his car and started driving down the road, something caught his eye." "He pulled his vehicle over, got out and watched it (the UFO) fly slowly over and around the town for approximately five minutes. He thought it was descending, and his first thoughts were of a para-glider, and said it was the best way to describe what he was looking at. He also said the object had 'one' bright white light on it. He noticed that the light would go from bright to dim but said he wasn't sure if this was due to the object turning. He also said that its height from the ground would have been 1,500 feet (450 meters)." On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at midnight, a man living on the south shore of Francois Lake approximately 30 kilometers (18 miles) from the ferry landing, had a close encounter. The witness "saw something very strange in the night sky. He said the night was perfectly dark with the stars shining brightly." "When he looked up into the sky, something caught his eye due to the speed of the object" which "had lights on it. He went on to explain that he has seen a lot of satellites, planes, etc. but the object was like nothing he could compare it to. He said it almost looked like an aircraft and 'as it came close to my area', the object came to a complete stop and went totally dark. Then, all of a sudden, there was a flash of light which reminded him of" taking a mirror and tilting it to one side to catch the sun's reflection. "And, aiming it (the bright flash) toward the ground, you could see a very bright area lit up. Because it was totally dark, he said it was like a ray of light which seemed to be sweeping the ground." The witness told Vike that "the sighting only lasted a couple of minutes before (the UFO was) continuing on its way at an incredible speed. It came from the north and left heading directly south, then disappeared." "He went on to say he couldn't believe how powerful the light was," Vike said, "It was almost as if the sun were shining through clouds, giving the effect of a beam of sunlight. It looked as if the UFO was looking for something as the beam of light swept the ground." Francois Lake is in the Grassy Plains area, just south of Burns Lake, B.C. (population 1,793). Burns Lake is at the intersection of Provincial Highways 16 and 35 about 216 kilometers (135 miles) west of Prince George, B.C. (See the Smithers, B.C. Interior for March 23, 2002. Many thanks to Brian Vike for these reports.) NEW MIRACLE REPORTED AT MEDJUGORJE IN BOSNIA On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, an Italian UFO contactee, visionary and stigmatic named Giorgio Bongiovanni appeared on the TV show La Vita in Diretta in Rome "without his habitual (stigmatic) scar on his forehead, which he had been exhibiting for about nine years." Bongiovanni claimed to have the stigmata (a phenomenon in which people spontaneously develop the wounds of Jesus Christ - J.T.), in particular a cross on the forehead similar to that of St. Gemma Galgagni (1878- 1903). Shortly after his TV appearance, Bongiovanni "issued a press release through his magazine Nonsiamosoli (Italian for We Are Not Alone - J.T.) that he made a pilgrimage to Medjugorje in Bosnia-Herzegovina," where he received a miraculous cure.. According to Bongiovanni, he visited the shrine atop Mount Podbrdo on the morning of Monday, February 11, 2002 "and prayed silently to ask the Virgin Mary to render invisible at least the scar of his stigmata." To his astonishment, the former Miriam bat-Joachim suddenly appeared before him and touched his forehead with her fingertips. The scar instantly vanished. Then she asked him to return to Italy and make known what had happened. This is the latest in a series of miraculous happenings involving Miriam and Medjugorje (Croatian for Between the Mountains - J.T.) Medjugorje is located 40 kilometers (25 miles) south of Mostar and about 80 kilometers (50 miles) southwest of Sarajevo, Bosnia's capital. The first strange incident took place in 1932 involving Pope Pius XI. This pope was born Achille Ratti near Milano and, after his ordination as a priest, was an archivist at the Vatican Library. After World War I, he became the papal nuncio in Warsaw, Poland. He was also an enthusiastic mountain climber. (Editor's Note: Curiously enough, the then-Archbishop Ratti was in Warsaw in May 1920 when Pope John Paul II - birth name Karol Wojytla - was born.) One night in February 1932, Pope Pius XI was asleep in his Vatican bedroom and dreamed that he was climbing a mountain. A mountain he had never seen before. He knew he wasn't in Italy - he had scaled nearly every peak in the Alps. When he reached the summit, he found Miriam waiting patiently for him there. She was wearing a light gray dress with a long white veil. "Achille," she told him, "I want you to build a cross on this site. Because this place will become very important in the future." Looking around in bewilderment, he mumbled, "Where am I?" "Yugoslavia." And smiling gently, she added, "Remember this mountain, Achille." And the pope suddenly woke up. That was a weird dream, he thought. A few months later, Pope Pius XI received a petition from the Archbishop of Mostar in Yugoslavia (now Bosnia- Herzegovina - J.T.) The diocese wanted to erect a concrete cross on Mount Sipovac commemorating the 1,900th anniversary of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. When the pope saw a photograph of the proposed site, he gasped out loud. It was the mountaintop he had seen in his dream. He signed the construction order immediately. The cross was erected in 1933, and the mountain's name was changed from Sipovac to Krisevac (Croatian for Mountain of the Cross - J.T.) Flash-forward nearly a half-century to June 24, 1981. Two teenaged girls - Ivanka Ivankovic, 15, and Mirjana Dragicevic, 16 - were hiking up Mount Podbrdo. Both girls were staying with relatives in Bijakovici, a village located between Mount Krisevac and Mount Podbrdo, and had decided to hike up the latter to smoke some cigarettes and enjoy the view. As they reached the summit, Ivanka and Mirjana saw strange lights flashing in the sky above the cross on Mount Krisevac. Then a brilliant light appeared on Mount Podbrdo, about 40 meters (132 feet) away, and they saw "a beautiful lady in a gray dress with a long white veil" appear at the heart of the glow. "Let's get out of here!" Ivanka yelled, and they ran down the hillside trail in a panic. Halfway down the mountain, they encountered some friends from the village and told their story. "A group of them returned to the mountain. There she was! They wondered if she could really be the Blessed Virgin Mary. They all ran away in terror." Yet Mirjana Dragicevic was intrigued by the incident. She returned to the spot the following day, June 25, 1981, with some friends, Vicka Ivankovic, 17; Ivan Dragivecic, 16; Marija Pavlovic, 17; Jakov Colo, 10 - and a reluctant Ivanka, and the Marian apparitions began in earnest. They have been going on now for over twenty years. (See UFO- Italia for March 9, 2002. Also The Visions of the Children: The Apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Medjugorje by Janice T. Connell, St. Martin's Press, New York, N.Y., 1993, pags 4 through 7; and The Queen of Peace Visits Medjugorje by Joseph A. Pelletier, A.A., Assumption Publications, Worcester, Mass., 1987, pages 13 through 21. Grazie a Edoardo Russo di Centro Italiano di Studi Ufologici per questo rapporto.) (Editor's Comment: Bongiovanni's encounter took place on February 11. Oddly enough, this is a significant date in Marian lore. On February 11, 1858, Bernadette Soubirous had her first encounter with Miriam at the Grotte de Massabielle near Lourdes in southern France.) UFOLOGISTS WANT TO SEND A PETITION TO THE UN Tired of being ignored and brushed off by different national governments around the world, a group of ufologists are planning to bring the movement to the forefront of international politics - by submitting a petition to the United Nations. "An international, multilingual petition requesting a UN investigation and disclosure of UFO information" has been written, and it will be presented to Secretary-General Kofi Annan in March 2003. The goal of the petition, spokesman John Velez said, "is to increase the number of nations - Australia, Belgium, Brazil, France and Spain - who have either declassified or released their UFO files, or cooperated with civilians and openly reported UFO encounters to the media." "A compilation of world-wide UFO-footage will be submitted with the petition," Velez added, "Please read and digitally sign the petition, then spread the word." The International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure can be viewed at the following website... http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition. (Many thanks to John Velez for this news release.) CHUPACABRAS SEEN BY FARMERS IN ARGENTINA "Residents of El Tonco, located in the vicinity of Los Cardones National Park" near Cachi in northern Argentina "claim to have seen a strange humanoid of average height with red eyes, sharpened teeth, covered in hair and with fingers ending in long, sharp claws, prowling around their (cattle) herds." "Creatures have been seen in the valleys of the Chalchaque region" between Cachi and the city of Salta. The region is 750 kilometers (450 miles) northwest of Buenos Aires, the national capital. "Maria Rufina Cayo is a 73-year-old herdswoman who devotes herself to raising sheep and goats in El Tonco, a suburb of the municipality of Payogasta, bordering Los Cardones National Park. She was the first one to report the strange presence." "The woman lives and works alongside her sister, Benita, 79, in the desolate landscape where 33 farms are scattered over a vast mountain region." "On (Monday) February 11, (2002) she says, 'I was returning home and driving my cattle with my dogs. It was getting dark, and, as I walked, I was praying the Rosary, asking God for rain. At that instant, something alarmed the animals and started them running.'" "'When I looked from one side to the other to see what was going on, I saw it. It was a strange being...half-human, half-animal. It measured 1.7 meters (about 6 feet tall - J.T.) approximately and was less than 12 meters (40 feet) away from me. It looked at me three times and moved quickly, leaping with its two powerful rear limbs and leaving dust in the distance, shaking its two long ears over its head. I was startled, but not scared,' she adds." "Santos Jaimes, 30, and Ruben Colque, 34, are two of El Tonco's residents. Alerted by Maria Rufina's story, they went out to investigate in the company of some neighbors." "'We were walking down the trail when the dogs refused to go any further and began to howl pitifully. We heard strange noises and ran to see what was going on. We passed a few bushes and we saw it. We were frozen in panic.'" "'It was a horrible being that glared at us with red eyes. Seated on its haunches, it (sprang and then) ran away swiftly toward Cerro Negro. Its feet looked like a cow's hooves but with a sort of rear spur (like a rooster- -J.T.). On the next day, we went out for a look and found these strange footprints. We don't know what it is, but we're on the lookout for anything,' said Jaimes and Colque." "Residents of El Tonco claim that it measures 1.7 meters (tall) and its body is covered in hair." "According to Juan Carlos Chavez, sheriff of the Cafayete regional police, the endless sightings that affected (Calama in) Chile for months has the trans-Andean community on tenterhooks. The presence of the mythic being in the rural community of El Tonco can be added to a series of UFO sightings which have occurred in the (Cachi) area." (Editor's Note: El Tonco is only 400 kilometers or 250 miles east of Calama, Chile.) "'We are linking these events. Some ten days ago (March 20, 2002), a thorough investigation was conducted in the place where the animal had turned up and where the sightings occurred. We haven't found much, because there are no clear traces such as the dead (farm) animals that turned up in Chile,' said Sheriff Chavez." "'According to witnesses, rather than adopting an aggressive stance, the animal takes off when it sees humans. However, people are concerned over what happened in Calama. They fear their cattle will be attacked,' explained the sheriff, adding that a police commission shall study the strange phenomenon - which is the talk of the community - for a month and in an exhaustive manner." (See the Argentinian newspapers El Tribuno of Salta for March 27, 2002, "Strange humanoid allegedly seen," and Las Ultimas Noticias of Buenos Aires for March 30, 2002, "Chupacabras reach Argentina." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, autor de los libros Chupacabras and Other Mysteries y Forbidden Mexico, y tambien Gloria Coluchi, para los articulos de diario.) RECTANGULAR UFO SIGHTED IN NORTHERN ITALY On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at about 11 p.m., "a strange apparition" was sighted by many people in Revello, a small town near Cuneo at the foot of the Alpi Cozie mountains. Cuneo is 110 kilometers (66 miles) south of Torino (Turin). "Numerous residents" of Revello "noticed a rectangular-shaped object over the hills, suspended a few meters above the ground. The mysterious and luminous object then moved, illuminating the woods, before disappearing without a trace." "The object was 1.5 kilometers (just over a mile - J.T.) away, over a hill. It appeared to be bright white and rectangular.in shape and as large as an automobile. After ten seconds or so, the object slowly descended behind the trees, illuminating them from behind, and then disappeared." The witnesses are being interviewed by Italian ufologist Matteo Leone. (See the Italian newspaper La Eco dei Chisone for February 28, 2002. Grazie a Edoardo Russo e Camillo Michieletto di CISU per questo rapporto.) DISC-SHAPED UFO SPOTTED IN ALLEN, TEXAS On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, "Huckleberry" M. was at home in Allen, Texas (population 43,554) when a UFO approached from the north. "A hubcap-like thing flew over and landed in a field," Huck reported. "At the time we were going fishing. We walked on past a tree to see the hubcap hover about 10 feet (3 meters) off the ground and then it zipped off to the west." "It was silver and round at the top like a hubcap (that is, it had a dome-shaped protuberance on top - J.T.). Around the side were little circular lights. The round top looked like it could pop up like a door. It had no landing gear. Height was about five yards (15 feet) off the ground. Length was about 10 feet (3 meters) and the speed was going fast as you can see. When it zipped off, it looked like a line shooting across the sky." Allen, Tex. is on Highway 5 about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of Dallas. (Email Form Report) LUMINOUS UFO SEEN OVER HUGO, OKLAHOMA On Thursday, March 21, 2002, the male eyewitness reported, "I was riding around" Hugo, Oklahoma "about 9 or 10 (o'clock) at night. And I saw a single white light. It was moving across the sky. It was not a plane or a satellite. It didn't blink. We followed it to the airport, and it disappeared." "My son and I went home, and (then) it came over our house! It had red, blue and green lights with a bright white light in the middle. It was a triangle shape. It made no noise and moved so slow. Then it disappeared." Hugo, Okla. (population 5,536) is on Highway 70 just north of the Texas state line and about 65 miles (108 kilometers) south of McAlester, Okla. (Many thanks to John Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for forwarding this report.) CONE-SHAPED UFO SIGHTED IN GLENWOOD, IOWA On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 8:30 p.m., the male witness, who wishes to remain anonymous, reported, "I was coming home from (nearby) Omaha, Nebraska on (Interstate Highway) I-79 South when I first noticed a cone-shaped object that was not moving across the sky like an airplane or known aircraft. It was stationary. The color was a pale neon blue. It looked as if it was a mile or 2 above ground. I kept my eye on it as I was driving. Then I pulled over and observed the thing for about 15 minutes." The witness estimated that the cone-shaped UFO was over Highway 34 approximately 3 miles (5 kilometers) west of Glenwood, Iowa. He added, "It looked as though it occasionally cast some sort of light down under it. I get the feeling that it was looking for something or perhaps taking photos. The light that was being cast down was not as bright as the object itself. It was rather faint in comparison." "There is an Air Force base nearby, and one of the bigger planes emerged from the southeastern sky. As the plane got closer, the object seemed to fade in brightness. And, just like a car backing up in reverse, the object did until you could no longer see it." "When the plane went by and was out of sight, back it came and resumed whatever it was doing before." "The thing moved at fantastic speed. It doesn't seem like the object was playing hide-and-seek with the plane. Also, I noticed I was not the only person who pulled over to watch this thing." The object was still over Glenwood when the witness drove away. Glenwood (population 5,358) is on Iowa Highway 275, about 25 miles (40 kilometers) southeast of Omaha, Nebraska. (Email Form Report) RANCHER PHOTOGRAPHS UFOs NEAR SPOKANE, WASH. Since Saturday, February 2, 2002, farmers and ranchers near Tyler, a small town in Washington state about 25 miles (40 kilometers) southwest of Spokane, have been seeing "mysterious lights in the sky three or four times per week." The high prairie around Tyler is locally known as the Palouse, and it is most famous for its vast wheat fields. People living in the area have an unlimited view on clear nights, and they are puzzled by the strange flurry of recent UFOs. "Since that time, I have observed 'lights' in the night sky an average of three or four nights per week," the witness, a middle-aged male rancher, reported. "Beginning about (Thursday) February 7, I started taking photographs with an Instamatic-type camera, and as of about (Friday) February 15, I began shooting through a Meade 200x telescope using a 35-millimeter Canon A6-1 (camera). I have quite a few pictures, most of which show uneven blobs of light. However, in some (photos) shot at shorter shutter speeds, the lights take on a discernable saucer shape." "I witnessed a startling event about February 5 or 6. The evening had been quite stormy and rainy, with strong gusts of wind. But at about 9:30 p.m., the wind and rain let up, and, within minutes, a large 'light' popped up over the Palouse. Then, within a minute, I observed a lighted jet aircraft 'dive' out of the clouds above the light and fly directly at it. The light began a rather rapid movement to the north, with the aircraft following it!" "It was my impression that the plane was 'waiting' and 'pounced' on the light when it appeared," he stated, adding that the UFO sightings continue in the Palouse wheat country. (Many thanks to Brian Vike for forwarding this report.) UFO SIGHTED IN CALIFORNIA On Saturday, March 16, 2002, in the late evening, a witness in Hayward, California (population 140,030) "was looking into the clear dark sky when I suddenly and accidentally saw an object which I cannot explain. The object was shining light of a white color, and it moved west towards San Francisco Bay. The object was very fast, much faster than a plane, and it didn't make any sound at all." "I guess the object was about 500 feet (150 meters) above ground level. Although I saw it for just two seconds, I could tell for sure that I had never seen such a thing before in my life. I am absolutely sure it was not an airplane. The object had the shape of a comet when entering the atmosphere, but it was too low and too big to be considered a comet." Hayward, Cal. is on the east side of San Francisco Bay, on Interstate Highway I-880 about 15 miles (25 kilometers) southeast of San Francisco. (Many thanks to John Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for forwarding this report.) GIANT OCTOPUS FOUND IN NEW ZEALAND WATERS "New Zealand scientists have identified what they say is the largest octopus ever seen: a 13-foot (4-meter) giant caught in a trawler's net near the Chatham Islands" off the coast of the South Pacific nation. "The dead animal was badly damaged, but scientists estimate it weighed 154 to 165 pounds and was caught at a depth of more than 3,000 feet (900 meters)." (See USA Today for March 29, 2002, "Giant octopus found near New Zealand islands," page 15A.) (Editor's Note: Although giant octopodes - some as large as a three-story building - have been described by sailors worldwide through the centuries, this specimen is the largest octopus known to and recognized by science.) READER FEEDBACK: NOT ITALY'S FIRST ABDUCTION Edoardo Russo of Centro Italiano di Studi Ufologici (CISU) writes, "Hello, Joseph and John! There has been a misunderstanding due to translation problems." (See UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 11 for March 12, 2002, "Italy reports its first alien abduction.") "'The first report of its type' meant the first time a report of its type was filled out at a police office by the 'kidnapped' man himself. We've had our share of abduction reports in Italy, although this is the first time that an abductee stepped into a police office to make that claim." From the UFO Files... 1979: UNUSUAL PHENOMENON IN MISSISSIPPI Number 9169 Tulane Road in Southaven, a small town in De Soto County, Mississippi, has one claim to fame in that it's "just down the road from Graceland," Elvis Presley's palatial mansion, located just across the state line in Memphis, Tennessee. But in March 1979, the modest home suddenly became the site of the strangest poltergeist outbreak in the history of Mother Dixie. It all began the evening of Saturday, March 31, 1979 when "Bert Gross, 54, who lives with his children, ages 13 to 24,...was sitting with some kids, watching TV and generally taking things easy." Suddenly, "flying insects began to attack them. Then a decorative pillow flew off the couch in the corner of the room and landed about eight feet away, near the opposite wall." "Things dveloped rapidly after that. A coal-burning heater in the room collapsed. The portable black-and- white TV set crashed to the floor from the dresser. So did the alarm clock. The dresser drawers opened and emptied themselves. Tennis balls flew about. A hunk of hardened adobe being used to plug a hole around the pipe from the heater came loose and flew across the room." "The strange events continued until around 11:30 p.m., Gross told Don Winbush (a reporter) of the Memphis, Tenn. Commercial- Appeal. An upright freezer in the adjoining kitchen made a 90- degree turn. Kitchen chairs, tables, utensils, a canister of sugar and a jar of spaghetti sauce moved about." "A De Soto County sheriff's deputy watched the objects flying around on Sunday (April 1, 1979) and decided it was not a job the law could cope with." "Winbush also saw the strange goings-on....A chicken being thawed for dinner flew off the kitchen table and crashed onto the floor. Other flying objects included Gross's Size 8 1/2 work boots, a butcher knife, a flashlight and other items from the front porch." "Gilbert Hines, 58, who lives nearby, said, 'I was drinking a can of beer this morning (a Sunday) and a pillow came around the corner, it looked like to me, and it hit me in the leg. Now that's the truth if I ever told it. I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't seen it.'" "Three weeks later, things were still happening at the Gross home, after a brief lull. On Saturday, April 15 (1979), a woodburning stove suddenly collapsed, spilling its smoldering contents onto the kitchen floor." "The night before (Friday, April 14, 1979) dirt flew across the front room of the house. Both the refrigerator and the freezer moved during the night." Having lost their stove, the Gross family took to cooking their meals on the backyard barbecue grille. Mr. Gross vowed "to stay until it runs us out." The family finally moved, and the phenomena petered out, leaving the researchers - as usual - scratching their heads in bewilderment. (See the Memphis, Tenn. Commercial Appeal for April 17, 1979. Also Fate magazine for November 1979, "Things A-Flying," pages 10 to 12.) (Editor's Note: Memphis, Tenn. is notorious for its haunts. In addition to "the Vatican of Elvisology," Graceland, there's the old Brinkley Female College, the Orpheum Theatre on Beale Street and the antebellum mansion in South Hills which last year experienced a series of unexplained fires.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home - UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites and in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:19:39 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:39:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton >From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:01:24 EST >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:33:58 -0800 (PST) >>I spoke to Major Benz last Friday, she informed me that the >>Maryland National Guard did not land on base at 8:30 pm on the >>night of March 13th, 1997. She said that they dropped the flares >>around 10:00 PM then returned to base. If you were told this by >>the PIO at Davis Montham, they were mistaken. Remember, it was >>Major Benz that found out the MANG was out that night. She is >>now searching for the original documents of the search and will >>send them to me when she locates it. >>Lt Shepherd (PIO) was quoted in a Tucson newspaper. I would like >>to see those original docs. >Bill, you mean to tell me that you never even spoke to this PIO >and just used the newspaper quote? Maybe this should be checked >out as well? It's very important to the case. I called several times and was always told he was not available. If you can find him now, that would be great. We also received non-specific info from Captain Sullen, commander of the Maryland ANG. He never answered specifically on the time and location of his flight's flare drop. Also, it is beyond doubt that there were nine lights in the array. Tom King and I were close enough to see that the light on the far left was a pair. Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Phoenix Case - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:20:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:41:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Maccabee >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:47:49 -0800 (PST) >>Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:09:19 -0500 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>The triangulation I did stands on its own. It is based on >>sighting lines that were determined using ground reference >>points. The videotaped lights of Kryston, Lynn and Rairdon were >>far southwest of Phoenix. >>However, repeating the observations as an experiment if a good >>idea. Triangulation is good. But the comparison must be at with >>comparable video cameras and at comparable distances. Will do no >>good to get "up close" to see what flares "really look like." >>The TV media have already done that. Moreover, one must be >>certain that the flares are of the same type LUU-- etc. >I understand this Bruce, but I must add that a recent re- >analysis I did selecting several lights as points of reference >on both the Krysten night frame shot and day frame shot to >determine a consistent ratio between frames still places these >lights in front of the Estrella Mtns and not 60+ miles away so I >am going to go to professionals if necessary and get this re- > analyzed. Your triangulation analysis and my placement analysis >do not agree. Also, new computer software may show the outline >of the mountains in the video itself and am looking forward to >testing that. Going to professionals is a good idea. I hope you can get the work done for low $$$ expense. But I must point out that the location of the lights is determined not only by Krysten's video, assuming your accept the idea that Krysten, Lynn and Rairdon all saw the same array on March 13. The professionals should go to the various houses and see the scenery for themselves, as I did, use comparison shots to get ground features and accurate directions, etc, do the zoom scaling correctly (since the witnesses changed focal length numerous times by zooming in and out... this made the analysis more difficult).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Damaged Goods - Bowden From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 19:07:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:45:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Damaged Goods - Bowden >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:01:21 +0100 >Subject: Re: Damaged Goods >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Damaged Goods >>Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:38:50 -0000 >>Hi All, >>Earlier this week I received two CD ROMs from Max Burns >>containing a BUFORA lecture he recorded in London on December of >>last year. ><snip> >>After taking the discs out of the packaging I saw that not one >>but both had been scratched beyond repair. <snip> >>Has anyone on this list had a similar experience? >Hi Dave, >I don't know about any conspiracy that may be affecting your >mail but I am in the music busines and at times I have had mail >damaged and lost. >A long time ago a music star I had met sent me a very rare test >pressing (artist and producer approval pressing worth a great >deal of money to collectors) as a personal gift. It was a >surprise and I found out about it when the mail person was at my >door with a crumpled manila envelope. The envelope contained a >lot of pieces of broken vinyl. The artist had sent the record >alone and not in cardboard or anything to protect it from >damage. >The lesson is to pack well to protect the contents from rough >mail handling and insure everything. For what it is worth attach >fragile stickers and go after the postal company if anything is >lost or subject to rougher than usual handling. >So much UFO related material gets sent through the mail >undamaged every day that I don't think there is a conspiracy to >block such mail. But there may be a conspiracy against you and >the people you know. Please remember that just because you think >they are after you doesn't mean that you are paranoid. Please >don't think about marching on your post office with gun in hand >to eliminate the conspiracy. But then again, how else can you >stop them from interfering with your mail? Josh, I understand what you're saying, believe me if someone's going to send me something on vinyl I'll ask them to put it in cardboard (not that I've got anything to play it on mind you). The packaging was perfect but the scratches on the CD's were concentric and deep. If I am paranoid then it's just about how stupid the whole thing is since this morning I received another two disks from Max, absolutely fine. I'll be checking the data over the weekend. The post office? Now where'd I leave that shotgun?? All the best, Dave Bowden.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Damaged Goods - Bowden From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 19:11:35 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:46:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Damaged Goods - Bowden >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Damaged Goods >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:13:10 -0000 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Damaged Goods >>Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:38:50 -0000 >Dave wrote: >>Earlier this week I received two CD ROMs from Max Burns >>containing a BUFORA lecture he recorded in London on December of >>last year. ><snip> >>After taking the discs out of the packaging I saw that not one >>but both had been scratched beyond repair. >How curious. Only recently I opened a package to find a black >circular disc, scratched beyond repair. >Is this a record? Andy, I don't know how old your data is but I've never had anything submitted on a gramophone record! While I'm left with the scratched CD's you are the current record holder ;-) All the best, Dave Bowden.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 From UFO Roundup: Large Saucer Flies Over Downtown From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:31:32 CST Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 22:33:00 -0500 Subject: From UFO Roundup: Large Saucer Flies Over Downtown >Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:18:30 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 14 >Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. ><Masinaigan@aol.com> >========================== >UFO ROUNDUP >Volume 7, Number 14 >April 2, 2002 >Editor: Joseph Trainor >http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ >LARGE SAUCER FLIES OVER DOWNTOWN OTTAWA >Canada's UFO flap continued last week with the sighting of a >large saucer over Ottawa, the national capital. >On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 2 p.m., the huge object appeared >over the city, heading north. The woman witness reported, "Right >now, I'm still quite excited as today I saw a large flying >saucer right over downtown Ottawa (population 323,340) at >approximately 2 p.m." >"I was visiting a friend in hospital in Hull (now Gatineau, >Quebec - J.T.) for the afternoon today. He went back to his room >to get changed because we were going to go outside for a while. >So I stayed in the smoking room with a man I had talked to a few >times before. This smoking room has a panoramic window view of >downtown Ottawa and the hospital is located close to the Ottawa >River." >"Anyway, I was sitting there, watching TV, when all of a sudden >the man said something to the effect of 'What the hell is that >flying over there!?'" >"I looked, expecting a kite or something, but it was this >massive saucer. It seemed like at first it was hiding in the >lower clouds" but then it revealed itself. "Right there, over >downtown Ottawa, was the large craft! Its colour was dark gray >metallic. Its shape was round. It was just, you know, the sort >of thing I had always read about in UFO sightings. You could >call it a classic flying saucer. The sighting lasted for about >30 seconds, then it disappeared out of view due to part of the >hospital blocking the way. Its size was a little bigger than an >airliner." >"It was heading either north or northwest when last I saw it," >she added, "It couldn't have been more than 400 feet (130 >meters) above the skyscrapers of downtown Ottawa." (Many thanks >to Sue Darroch of Para-Researchers of Canada for forwarding this >report.) ================================================== Now the bad news... Because this story sounds so unlikely, I did a quick check of Ottawa newspapers and found at story about a hot-air balloon which crashed in a suburb of Ottawa on March 13, 2002. The company whose balloon crashed told me that they were not flying on March 19, but that there were several other balloon companies who were flying about that time, as they were all taking advantage of the arrival of Springlike weather to get some flying in. Not only that, but I think it's quite appropriate to ask if the witness had the date wrong in this instance, since the area where the "saucer" was seen is close to where the balloon crashed. If I was a bettin' man, that's what I'd say this sighting was. Chris Rutkowski Media Relations Coordinator Public Affairs Department University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 voice: (204) 474-9514 e-mail: Chris_Rutkowski@umanitoba.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Alfred's Odd Observation #012 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:49:37 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 22:48:31 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Observation #012 ...and still they fly. Almost invisible, the dimmest of dim white stars, it took 15 seconds to travel three degrees around 04:20 central this morning in an unvarying track and speed. Noticed at about 60 degrees elevation due North, it was observed, with and without field glasses, to fly from the angered North to the troubled South, down to an elevation of about 30 degrees before it got too dim to see (even with off center viewing). It traveled about 90 degrees total, then, and passed directly overhead. It was seemingly oblivious to the teapot tempests occurring beneath it on the ground, short term affronts and petty jealousies carousing like belligerent plankton in a tepid tide pool -- beneath its concern, consideration, or even contempt. It would fly regardless. It would have other fish to fry. The satellite tracking data I use via NASA in an attempt to separate ufological wheat from prosaic chaff (and already mentioned in this series) has some indeterminate language used, perhaps merely to suggest the employment of some very clever JAVA applications one's told one can use for sighting predictions. These applications give a God's eye view of hundreds of man-made objects in orbit around the Earth. NASA asks: "...Ever see a light moving across the night sky and wonder if it's an airplane or a spacecraft (or even a UFO)?" Words are the very fabric of our aggregate intellectual capacity and civilization, the reproducible stuff of dreams past and present, and equally employable as paintbrush, tool, and weapon. Mere words are, truly, the tap-root of _real_ magic to come... But I digress... As an interested employer of words I wonder what is really being communicated in the, certainly, _measured_ tones from NASA. Do the words ask the reader if they think they're seeing UFOs? Do they offer a more agreeable and parsimonious suggestion for what the observer must _really_ be seeing? Does NASA hide a tiny misdirecting smirk with its mention of UFOs, or does it leave the possibility open? Though NASA would be predicted (based on its observed past (questionable) performance) to employ the former, it is the _latter_ which the reader can benefit from if the reader so chooses. NASA continues: "Many people enjoy satellite watching as a fun hobby, and you can join them using J-Pass. Using your location and the latest available tracking data, J-Pass can predict the times a satellite will pass overhead, and even give you a chart showing the path of the craft through your sky. Whether you're interested in seeing the International Space Station, Mir, a favorite category of satellites such as Amateur craft, or just any manmade craft, J-Pass can help you plan your viewing." What's going on here, really? Are we being protected by our 'doting' institutions or are they protecting themselves, insuring themselves, or profiting themselves at our expense... this goes as deep and as high as one wants to look, I suspect. Things are not as they appear. This becomes clearer as time goes on. I have been using this "J-Pass" satellite data program for around 18 months now, and I have _yet_ to see a predicted satellite, shuttle, or station fly-over. This is not to say that it is impossible, just that satellites, shuttles, and stations can be very difficult to see. On the flip side, this is how the reader can use the program to cut through some of the official smoke and fog (...that's "smog" isn't it...). The reader can pretty quickly survey the data and get an idea what they *could* be seeing, and then check that against what they _have_ been seeing. Do the sets match? I'd bet NOT, more than so. Mine don't. If the reader spends significant time outside trying to match these two data sets, two things are likely to happen. One, they are going to see some strange sh_t in the sky, guaranteed, and two, they are not going to be able to pronounce it _all_ off as "object de' man-made"! That's the best use of NASA's program, ironically: to dismantle the ignorance that our institutions publicly decry but _must_ privately foment. Data owes no allegiance. It is truly a sword that cuts both way. Data provided to _dismiss_ can many times be turned, righteously, into data able to _prove_. Am I seeing UFOs? I'd have to say -- probably. Satellites, shuttles, and stations don't fly in formation. Satellites, shuttles, and stations don't vary their speed and track. Satellites, shuttles, and stations don't vary their color and brightness (not like _I've_ witnessed) and shoot wide dim rays of colored light. Satellites, shuttles, and stations don't make 90 degree turns, spit red glitter, or flit and strobe in one location. Satellites, shuttles, and stations won't astonish my mouth incredulously open, pique my rational (even scientific) interest, or provoke these essays. No! UFOs are doing that. That's enough. I know it's tough to swallow any of this when there are a thousand natural shocks contrived in our everyday lives and one specious distraction after another to muddle and confuse, but watch the skies if you've time and inclination. It's ongoing and nightly evidence of the _certain_ wider reality, the reality we're being "protected from." You might as well watch _it_. It's watching you. That admission that it's watching (?) ...changes _everything_, and that's why it's so hard to admit. Still, _every_ child must admit to growth and changing experience. No child expects to remain in an overcrowded crib... No child expects to be a child forever. Who would want to? Childhood _sucked_ for the vast, vast majority, and I say this assuring the reader that I had a passably good one. Do read on! Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 HBCC UFO: Cedarvale, British Columbia From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 13:22:04 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 23:44:50 -0500 Subject: HBCC UFO: Cedarvale, British Columbia Cedarvale, British Columbia Here we go again: ----- On April 3rd, 2002 8:28 PM Sighting over my field of what appeared to be a Sparkly Star, flashing Red and Green, moving in a box-like pattern. I phoned my Mother and remained in contact with her for about 1 hour while all this was going on. During the timeframe I flashed my flashlight at this thing 3 times like "on, off, on, off, on, off" and nothing happened. 8:30 PM Very, very, bright, very, very low flying white light moving steadily towards Kitwanga, BC, in a straight line - East, floats by to the Right of where I am sitting on my front step. 8:40 PM Another small white Star moving very steady in a straight line - heading South. 8:50 PM What appeared to be a Jet Plane [complete with the Jet sound] with flashing Red lights went by in a South East direction going directly past the "Sparkly Star, flashing Red & Green, moving in a box-like pattern" thing in the sky. I could see the outline of the Jet Plane and it was very large and "metallic." The Neighbors dogs started to howl, and then to bark - as did my dogs and those living across the Skeena River on the Highway 16 side. So I did it again, during the timeframe, I flashed my flashlight at this thing 3 times like "on, off, on, off, on, off" and nothing happened. 9:02 PM Quit watching for awhile... 9:50 PM By this time it had moved so far up in the sky that it just looked like an ordinary Star. 10:00 PM All in all, it moved in a gradual East - South trajectory over the space of the 2 1/2 hour timeframe. By that time it had gotten so high up in the air that it looked like a regular Star. Hope this helps :) Best regards, ----- HBCC UFO Research
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 23:43:31 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 23:48:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Hall >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:52:21 -0600 >>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:09:53 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>>Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:53:07 -0600 >>>>Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:26:29 +0000 >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>>>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>>>>Patient and gentle listfolk: >>>>>"The Pelican notes, with ill-concealed glee, that America's ETH >>>>>ufologists have recently become more agitated and paranoid than >>>>>usual, having become aware of an insidious threat to their >>>>>noble cause." >>>The problem, which you fail to address, is that the Pelican's >>>piece is dishonest.... >>>claims that look very much like, not to put too fine a point on >>>it, unmitigated falsehoods. >>>Since we now know, however, that everything the Pelican claimed >>>about "America's ETH ufologists" and their response to the film >>>is malicious fiction, it is time for, if not an outright apology >>>(which we would graciously accept and for which we would afford >>>you all due credit), at least an admission of error. Or does >>>being an English PSH ufologist mean never having to say you're >>>sorry? >>I would have thought that an English major should have been >>familiar with the literary device of hyperbole and not have been >>so lacking a sense of proportion as to describe it as "malicious >>fiction" - it almost makes me think the Pelican might be right >>about the 'paranoid' bit!. >Not much of a response, I'm afraid. You have managed to evade >every point I've raised, while feebling trying to switch the >subject from the Pelican's shameless inventions - er, excuse me, >"literary device of hyperbole" - to the alleged paranoia of >those who expose the inventions. Not good. >>It is interesting that you take such issue with one humourous >>paragraph, and neglect the rest of the Pelican's argument. >>Probably that tells us more about Jerome Clark than it does >>about the Pelican. >Now _there's_ a defense. I guess that from now on, I'll just >assume that anything that isn't true or logical in the pages of >Magonia is meant to be "humorous." All editors and writers take >note: you now have the perfect dodge. Nonhumorously speaking, >you've just told us, alas, more about yourself and your winged >associate than you've told us about Jerome Clark and those hated >heretics otherwise known as "America's ETH ufologists." >Sorry, John: but I would have expected better of you. Jerry & list, Dare I suggest a new appellation, Weaselman? I have noticed repeatedly that when skeptibunkers and psychosocials get cornered, they tend to weasel out and change the subject. By the way (i.e., BTW), one of my current favorite comic characters is Obviousman, who goes around pointing out obvious truths to dimwits with frequent expressions of "Duh!" - Dick Hall Member Ancient and Honorable Order of Cliquish Elitists and As-- well, you know.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 4 HBCC UFO: Nass Valley, British Columbia From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:48:22 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 23:58:59 -0500 Subject: HBCC UFO: Nass Valley, British Columbia Nass Valley, British Columbia Date: 1969 - 1971 Location: Nass Valley The following report was made by (name deleted), a retired logger now living in Terrace, British Columbia. During the years of 1969 to 1971 he worked in the Nass area about 3 miles upstream from Kincolith which was on the mouth of the Nass River. This was part of the tree farm license number one which was then worked by Columbia Cellulous, an American company. The river on this stretch ran east to west and was in the tidal zone. At this spot a log booming area was dredged in the river bed so it held water at low tide. There was a floating and anchored log fence on the river side and floating log gates on either end. When the tides came in twice a day, which could be up to 25 feet high, all the logs in the river would float back upstream to keep the logs in the booming channel. The upstream gate would be closed until the tide started to go out. It was only then that the jet booming boats could herd the logs into the booming channel. This was an around the clock operation and the work was largely controlled by the tides, no matter what the time, day or night. It was usually around 11:30 p.m. when the 6 or 7 man crew began to see a second moon in the sky. In watching it over time they saw it coming in at about a 35 degree angle from the northwest which was in line with the setting sun. It was pale blue in color and not quite as bright as the full moon. It moved slowly closer until it was noticeably larger than the moon. After the object hovered for a while it would move back giving the impression of a larger star then go out. Sometimes it would show up four times a week but not necessarily every night in a row, and then not show up for two weeks. This continued for five years as long as the men were working there for the summer. (name deleted) did not work there after 1974 but said one of the workers is now living in Smithers, British Columbia. Since the object moved slowly towards and away from them, the men were not scared. They estimated the closest distance was about 50 miles and when it disappeared it was about a 100 miles away. As far as (name deleted) knows, no one there had a camera and no pictures were taken. However in the days of mechanical cameras this would have been difficult unless you were good with cameras. It seemed to be perhaps at least 100 miles away... perhaps 50... it was hard to determine. At either distance the object would have probably covered a large city about 8 - 10 miles in diameter. To get a comparison, something else was tried. On a regional topographical map there is an icefield exactly 12 miles south of Terrace, British Columbia and is visible from my place. Measurements show it to be 3/4 of a mile in length running away and up and 1/2 mile wide. I then used a rifle with a hooded front sight and put it on the full moon. It did not quite fill the hood which would have made the blue object the right size. The next day I aimed the gun at the ice field and the area covered, carefully noted. The landmarks were then measured on the map and found to be 2 miles. What this proves is that if the object had been 12 miles away it would have been two miles in diameter. This is more in line with the object seen over Seattle by Mike in 1974. Incidentally a program on Discovery recently (Feb. 2nd) described a similar object. This also is very close to the giant object seen along the Klondike Highway in the Yukon in December 1996. The question was raised if the residents in Kincolith could have seen it. (name deleted) .. thinks this unlikely as the village is on the river flat just above high tide. On the north there was higher ground with very high trees. There is a highway to Kincolith under construction now (year 2002). The final question that was asked... was what did the men think it was? (name deleted). Replied, they had no idea. It wasn't threatening so they let it go at that. Thanks to Terrace resident for this report.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 23:02:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 00:02:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Maccabee >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:10:52 +0000 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:23:40 -0500 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Here's one nuts and bolts man who is not "more agitated and >>paranoid than usual" as a result of the Mothman Prophecies >>movie.,.... >How agitated and paranoid are you usually? Not very. And, by the way, when are you going to stop beating your wife? (Assuming you have a wife; but if you don't when are you going to get one so you can stop beating her?)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Filer's Files - #14-2002 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:44:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:44:32 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files - #14-2002 Source: http://www.filersfiles.com/news/printable.php?id=3D25 FILER'S FILES #14-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern April 3, 2002, Majorstar@AOL.COM. Webmaster: Chuck Warren http://www.filersfiles.com April 3 2002 posted on 04-06-2002 at 12:26AM by george Summary: UFOs were observed over Maine, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Missouri, Colorado, Canada, Chili, Peru, and England. Full Story: FILER'S FILES #14-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern April 3, 2002, Majorstar@AOL.COM. Webmaster: Chuck Warren http://www.filersfiles.com UFO REPORTS FROM AROUND THE WORLD: UFOs were observed over Maine, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Missouri, Colorado, Canada, Chili, Peru, and England. Annual Crop Circle Report has 30 percent less circles than 2000. Air Victory Museum in Medford, New Jersey to expand UFO display. SEEDS OF LIFE ARE EVERYWHERE, NASA RESEARCHERS SAY Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer says that sugar-packing asteroids may have seeded life on earth In two separate studies, scientists mimicked conditions of outer space, doused frozen interstellar cocktails with ultraviolet radiation and created amino acids, which are critical components of life. The work shows that amino acids could be created around many developing stars, which emit high doses of UV radiation, and that life would have had just as good a chance of forming on planets that might exist around those stars as it did here on Earth. The studies also support a growing expectation among many scientists that life on Earth may have been seeded from space, rather than having been forged only from raw materials that developed on Earth. All known life is made up of cells built and operated by proteins, which in turn are made from 20 building blocks called amino acids or Life's building blocks. Already, scientists have found amino acids in meteorites - chunks of asteroids or comets that landed on Earth. Amino acids, though not life itself, may have jump-started life on Earth with their arrival, some scientists have long suspected. Another theory has held that life on Earth developed out of a soup of lesser materials. Remarkable as it might be to think of life's ingredients arriving on a space rock, researchers have sought to show that amino acids might also form in interstellar space and thus be ubiquitous. If so, then the raw material of terrestrial life would date back to an earlier time, before comets and asteroids were born. "Amino acids are literally raining down out of the sky," said one of the team's leaders, Max Bernstein of NASA's Ames Research Center, "and if that's not a big deal then I don't know what is." "And, since new stars and planets are formed within the same clouds in which new amino acids are being created, this increases the odds that life also evolved in places other than Earth." Thanks to SPACE.com and the Journal Nature. March 28, issue. Editors Note: These new scientific findings hurt Darwin's Theory of Evolution, that life started by chance rather than by a designed creation. Life is likely throughout the universe carried probably by neutrinos which are neutral particles with almost no mass. Bob Beckwith presented a paper to the Florida Academy of Science 66th Annual Meeting on March 9, 2002. He says, "Neutrinos pick up information regarding material, including living organism, as they travel throughout the universe. This can explain where the information came from that produces living organisms in hot lava coming from a volcano. It also explains the emergence of life forms around hot vents coming from deep in the Pacific Ocean surrounded by sea water that is totally devoid of life. A further application is in the formation of a set of related microorganisms that produce methane, gasoline, light oil, heavy oil, and finally tar in oil wells that are pumped out too rapidly for the organisms to get down from the surface. It has long been recognized that there was not enough dinosaurs, etc., to rot and produce the Earth's petroleum Basic elements appear to come from nuclear reactions at the core of the Earth. These seep upward. Does this not imply that knowledge of all life forms of the universe is contained in the neutrino spectrum? Just how neutrinos effect the intelligent combination of elements into life is left for future research." Thanks to Bob Beckwith, Beckwith Electrical CO.http://www.beckwithelectric.com/ ABDUCTEES DO YOU NEED AN IMPLANT REMOVAL? A Team of Doctors has offered to remove possible implants and test for their authenticity as alien artifacts. Please phone or contact George Filer at Majorstar@aol.com. INTERNATIONAL CROP CIRCLE ARCHIVE -ANNUAL REPORT 2001 - The International Crop Circle Archive reports 197 different Crop Circle formations were discovered Worldwide in 2001. This number is about 30% less than 2000 when 275 were reported. The reason for this decrease may lie in the cold winter and the wet and rainy spring in Europe. Foot and Mouth disease also limited travel in the effected areas, suggesting that fewer hoaxers went into the field. It is the view of ICCA that this view is not really valid as we have to note the fact that in the two previous years we were blessed with an unusual obvious high number of formations (1999 =3D 241) and that there were other previous years with less formations than in 2000 with no Foot and Mouth crisis out there. One should also not forget, that to ask each year for new records in number, size and complexity might be a more human wish having probably not much to do with the real phenomenon. FORMATIONS PER COUNTRY & PERCENTAGE OF TOTAL England: 104 =3D 52.80% Germany: 24 =3D 12.18% Canada: 19 =3D 09.64% The Netherlands: 17 =3D 08.63% Czech Republic: 11 =3D 05.58% Denmark: 4 =3D 02.03% Yugoslavia: 4 =3D 02.03% USA: 4 =3D 02.03% Norway: 3 =3D 01.52% Poland: 2 =3D 01.01% Australia: 2 =3D 01.01% France: 1 =3D 00.51% Israel: 1 =3D 00.51% Russia: 1 =3D 00.51% FORMATIONS PER MONTH were February 1 =3D 00.51% March: 2 =3D 01.01% April: 4 =3D 02.03% May: 15 =3D 07.61% June: 34 =3D 17.26% July: 65 =3D 33.00% August: 59 =3D 29.94% September: 9 =3D 04.57% October: 3 =3D 01.52% December: 2 =3D 01.01% 3 Formations with unknown date =3D 01.52% Total: 197 Thanks to I Andreas M=FCller mueller@invisiblecircle.de - The International Crop Circle Archive MAINE CYLINDRICAL SHAPED COLORFUL OBJECT HARPSWELL - On March 16, 2002, the witness walked into her living area that has four glass sliders giving a spectacular view of the bay about 11:30 PM. Directly ahead the witness saw a cigar shaped light that hovered over an island in Quahog Bay. She grabbed her binoculars for a closer look, but the stabilizer on our binoculars needed batteries, so the lights appeared to be "dancing" or "jumping." The witness stated, "I particularly noticed the red and orange lights." I heard a vibrating or pulsating sound outside. It was fairly loud, so much so that I began to wonder if it was something in the house. The object rose slightly and I thought it was coming closer, so I woke my husband. When he got to the living area it started to go down and disappeared behind the trees on the island. Then the object slowly faded after almost five minutes. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com/. NEW YORK TEARDROP BLUE SILVERY SHIP WHITESTONE - The witness reports the sighting of a teardrop shaped silvery ship on March 2, 2002, while walking the dog. The dog started barking insanely at 7:15 PM, and then ran away from its owner as if she was scared. The witness says, "It was so scary, and yet, it produced a calming effect, meaning, I wanted to run but I wanted to stay and watch because it seemed so interesting. This was pretty surprising because my dog is a part Doberman and part pit bull and I didn't think anything would scare her. About ten seconds after the dog left, I saw strange lights that started to get bigger and bigger, and then, I saw a really nice, sleek, blue-silvery ship. At first I thought it was a plane, but it turned out that it was not. I came to that conclusion because no ship on earth, can vanish suddenly into thin air, which it did about 2 minutes after I spotted the ship. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com/. NEW JERSEY LIGHTS IN A CLOUD CLAYTON - The two boys age ten and eleven were outside playing when they saw lights in a cloud on March 9, 2002. The witness reports, "My friend said look up, and all the other kids looked up too, and saw three lights in a cloud. They were flying in circles and we took pictures at 7:50 PM. When I looked in the camera, I didn't see it at all. They were hiding in a cloud that was not moving at all. We think it was some kind of gas that lies out, but it was not moving in the air. We think it was hiding because there were lots of airplanes around the cloud. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com/. PENNSYLVANIA FIFTEEN POINTS OF LIGHT HARRISBURG - The witness reports seeing ten to fifteen points of light in a circular pattern moving from east to west in the sky on March 7, 2002. As they traveled the flying objects changed into a triangular pattern, then they all lined up in a straight line and sped off through the sky at 10:00 PM. FLORIDA BRIGHT EGG SHAPED OBJECT, ORBS PENSACOLA BEACH - On March 7, 2002, the witness took photos of a large transport aircraft coming across the coast at 2:34 PM, with his Olympus digital camera. When I got home and looked at these pictures, another OBJECT appeared in two frames with the aircraft. It couldn't have been a bird since the OBJECT was almost the same size and following the transport plane. I saw only the transport plane in the clear sky. NUFORC Note: Peter Davenport examined the photos and identified the "transport" as a C-130, presumably on approach, since its landing gear and flaps are deployed. The object looks like a large bird, perhaps an osprey. BOKELLIA - The witness was in route to Cayo Costa State Park via the Inter-Island Ferry service on March 15, 2002. During the ferry trip the witness noticed a twin-engine airplane appear from the east at 4:00 PM, and reports, "I observed it closely, when two orb-like objects flying in a single file formation flew in from the southwest at extremely high altitude. They were on a northeast course and flew over at my zenith when they veered to the west and disappeared in a matter of seconds over the horizon at an incredible rate of speed. LAKELAND - Four witnesses were returning from Titusville on March 15, 2002, when a white light in the shape of an egg caught their attention at 10:45 PM. The object had no tail. The witness's girlfriend and her grandson and his girlfriend, all saw the strange object that they felt was not a meteor, nor aircraft but bigger than a satellite. Numerous planes were flying around and this object sure didn't look like them as it flew off to the west. LAKE WORTH - Multiple witnesses were standing outside on March 16, 2002, when they saw a dim orange light moving parallel to the horizon with a similar object trailing behind. The second object began behaving erratically, closing in, moving next to, and dropping back. At 10:00 PM, both objects moved towards an airliner, and banking hard to the northwest they suddenly were back in front of the plane. The witness says, "I called to my girlfriend to look and multiple objects started appearing." We lost track of them, and then just as suddenly there was more than twenty. Some formed a vertical circle ball, then moved into a formation, and proceeded south along the coast. We called our neighbors and they saw the formation move south. Forty-five minutes later, we spotted 15 of these objects in a semicircular formation-moving north. This time I called my girlfriend and her daughter who watched them move northwest and disappear rapidly. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com/. OHIO HIGH SPEED LIGHTS SPRINGFIELD - A 39 year old witness reports he was driving east at 2:20 AM, when he saw two stationary pulsating red lights above a field on March 19, 2002. They resembled tower beacons, but he knew there were no towers in the vicinity. The witness says, "I stopped to look and noticed a bright white light that was ascending towards the red lights and disappeared as they met." About twenty seconds later the red lights started to move in a NNW direction and were less than a mile away and about 500 feet in altitude. The object was the size of an aspirin at arm's length and changed colors. I watched as they slowly faded into the distance. It was overcast that night, I could not discern any structure or sound, however the two red lights maintained there distance from each other and remained parallel to the ground throughout the event. If feel I witnessed something highly unusual as I have no explanation for it. Thanks to Benjamin Hart MICHIGAN "V" SHAPED OBJECTS FLY OVER HOME GRAND RAPIDS - On March 16, 2002, the witness reports, we were talking in our room where the ceiling is made of glass, so we had a could view of the night sky. "At 8:30 PM, we heard an incredibly loud roaring/shrieking sound, that grew louder, as a "V" shaped craft, with lights lining its border, zipped right over our house! The sound grew quiet just in time for another one, followed soon after by another one. The three UFOs flew over within one minute of each other. They all were black, quick, and had dotted lights along the edges of their "V" shape. We both felt the first one was an airplane, but by the time the third one came around, it was obvious that these were UFOs. They took only about 20 seconds to cross from east to west over the sky. Thanks to MUFON Headquarters hq@mufon.com MISSOURI LARGE DISK SHAPED OBJECT SPOTTED ASHGROVE - The witness's daughter called him into her room at about 10:12 PM, on February 13, 2001, and said, "Look at that!" An object the size of softball at arm's length was hovering in the northern sky ten degrees above the horizon. It shot straight up to about thirty degrees and seemed to float back down. It appeared to be flat with a raised top with a red strobe like light on top the size of a pencil eraser. There were white lights on each end or edge. It made no sound and did many very fast maneuvers, flew straight up and flashed out. ASHGROVE - The witness reports a strange sound woke me at about 2:00 AM, Sunday morning March 9, 2002. It was a hum? Then like a metallic sounding rum---rum---rum about five seconds apart. It was nothing like I have ever heard. I jumped out of the bed and ran to the window to see what it was? The next thing I remember is waking up about 9:00 AM. I didn't feel strange or anything just puzzled. CAPE GIRARDEAU - At 9:45 PM, the witness a police officer observed a circular object traveling southbound at 400 feet in altitude without lights moving slowly at no more than 30 MPH on January 26, 2002. The object was 50 feet in diameter and appeared to "float" as it made no noise. The object was white or a "shiny" color, which reflected light from below, but it was not displaying its own running lights. It could only be seen from the reflection of lights from the ground. The officer says, "I aimed a handheld radar at the object, but did not receive a reading. Peter Davenport spoke with the officer and found him to be exceptionally credible. They appeared on the Jeff Rense Radio Program on Feb. 12, where an archived copy is available at the www.Rense.com. Thanks to NUFORC COLORADO SPECTACULAR DAYLIGHT VIDEO OF DISC SALIDA - Jennifer Brown-Jacobs visited with Tim Edward's on March 24, 2002, and viewed video that contained six minutes of a spectacular UFO sightings. Tim's six-year-old daughter pointed out the UFO and Tim grabbed his camera. Tim's father, his teenage daughter, another witness from across the valley and two joggers saw the craft. The video is clear and in full daylight. He astutely took it to an independent lab that verified that it was indeed a large object (approximately 1/2 mile in length) hovering at 75,000 feet. Square windows line the sides of two rings set one on top of the other with an inner source of light, sparkling and producing vivid colors. Each ring seems to be moving independently, causing the windows to move in opposite directions, sometimes in tandem. Tim further verified the reality of this sighting by zooming in on the object and pulling out to show the guttering on his house with the object still in sight. Tim told me that at one point in the more than an hour long sighting, the object seemed to tilt and they could clearly see that there was a "Wheel within a wheel" that was set perpendicular and was also spinning. This ring also had the same-lighted windows, the same "almost a code movement." I think that this video is by far the most definitive sighting evidence I have encountered in my many years of research. Tim has his video for sale at his restaurant called the "ET's Landing" for $19.95, in Salida, CO. $5 for shipping and packaging: If this is what Ezekiel saw, no wonder it's in the Bible! Thanks to Jennifer Brown-Jacobs (719) 539-1519, Director of the Portland UFO Group, CANADA DAYLIGHT SIGHTING OF HUGE SAUCER ONTARIO - Sue Darroch of Para-Researchers Ottawa reports the March 19, 2002, sighting of a HUGE flying saucer. The witness was in the Gatineau hospital smoking room at 2:00 PM, which has a panoramic window view of the Ottawa River and downtown Ottawa. A man in the room yelled, "What the hell is that flying over there?" The witness also spotted the massive saucer hiding in a lower cloud in a cloudy sky. It moved forward out from the cloud completely revealing itself. She says, "My view was very clear and amazing of this huge dark gray metallic craft with a round shape, a classic flying saucer!" The sighting lasted for about thirty seconds, when the object flew north and out of view due to the hospital blocking the view. The UFO was a little bigger than an airliner, but there were no lights. It couldn't have been over 400 feet above the skyscrapers of downtown Ottawa! Many others must have seen it! Thanks to Sue Darroch http://www.pararesearchers.org. KITIMAT, BRITISH COLUMBIA - Brian Vike writes, a fellow on his way to work on March 19, 2002, watched "something" coming out of the sky with flames behind it at 7:35 AM. He described his location as being near the Kitimat River Bridge and saw the object directly over Kitimat streaking down with yellow, blue, and red flame behind it and trailing smoke. The "object" what ever it was came straight down. HOUSTON, BC - Brian Vike was phoned on March 29, 2002, at 10:30 PM by friends who live five miles west of town off Highway 16. She said, "Brian, I just checked on my new lambs and I'm watching a "light" at the top of Mount Harry Davis. Go look out your window!" Brian could see the tower on the mountain with the usual red lights. I heard her husband say I can see it also! Brian jumped into the truck and drove off keeping his eyes on the mountain. He left Highway 16 heading up Buck Flats Road until he saw what they saw and almost slipped off the road. He got out and stood with both of them as they watched this pale, yellowish light rise up from the mountain, stay stationary for about 15 seconds, and then disappear as if someone turned off a light switch. The lady was looking through binoculars and could see a halo around the light, with brighter distinct lights around the main body of it. Brian says, "This light was way off to the west of the large tower and right now I have not a clue to what it may have been?" Thanks to Brian Vike HBCC UFO Research, yogibear@bulkley.net, http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo/home.html CUBA PYRAMIDS AND ROADS 6000 FEET UNDER THE CARIBBEAN SEA HAVANA - Cuban scientists and experts from the Canadian exploration firm Advanced Digital Communications (ADC) are trying to determine if a strange rocky formation discovered in the depths of the Caribbean facing the Guanahuacabibes Peninsula in Cuba's western end that could be a strange sunken city, belonging to an unknown civilization. "We are in fact dealing with some highly peculiar structures said Cuban geologist Manuel Iturralde, after having researched the site for a week. "I would be hard pressed to find a geological explanation for this," he added. Analysis of the rock samples in coming months shall shed more light on the formation. Iturralde, the director of the Museo Nacional de Historia Nacional, has joined the Canadian firm in its efforts to find the mystery of the rocks, which are of polished, geometrical granite. The structures--reminiscent of pyramids, roads and other edifices, lie at a depth of over 600 meters in a 20 square kilometer area. ADC has suggested the ruins could correspond to a civilization, which colonized the Americas thousands of years ago, possibly settled on an island, which sank to a great depth as the result of a cataclysm, such as an earthquake. Canadian oceanographic engineer Paulina Zelitsky says, "I have never seen natural structures shaped with such intelligent planning and symmetry." The structures are thought to be 6,000 years old and could revolutionize the history of the Americas." Recently, a French archaeologist found evidence of 40,000-year-old settlements in South America. Thanks to REUTERS and Institute of Hispanic Ufology. Translation (C) 2002 El Mundo.es CHILI EVEN THE MAYOR HAS SEEN UFOs QUINTERO - The clarity of its skies and other physical conditions have turned Quintero into the country's most important place for UFO sightings. Sightings have increased in recent weeks. Even Mayor Jos=E9 Vara can attest to being a witness, on several occasions, to this phenomenon. A delegation of the Comit=E9 de Estudios de Fen=F3menos A=E9reos An=F3malos (Cefaa), an independent entity of Chile's Directorate of Civil Aeron=E1utics was set up in the area. The agency's mission is to gather the information provided by witnesses to sightings, and to analyze the data. The phenomenon is "simply real", causing a hazard for air navigation. This is due to the misgivings felt by pilots who claim having seen or detected "something strange" in the air or through their instruments. The Mayor stated, "At certain times of day, particularly at sunset, it becomes possible to see the phenomenon generally in our peninsula's interior." He added that "these movements are generally toward the Pacific Ocean. At night, around 21:00 hours, is when they can be frequently seen. They could help bring tourists. Thanks to Juan Carlos Astuya R. the Institute of Hispanic Ufology. Translation (C) 2002 Jaime Ferrer, Calama UFO Center Chile PERU AIR FORCE CREATES UFO GROUP? A. J. Gevaerd reports, Peru will be third country in the world, which is conducting official UFO investigations. The previous two are: Chile (CEEFA) and France (SEPRA). Gevaerd says, the Peruvian Air Force (FAP) has created the Office for the Investigation of Anomalous Activity. "Somos" magazine claims FAP commander Jose Luis Chamorro, says the fundamental purpose of his office is safety: If a non-Peruvian aircraft enters our territory without proper authorization, it must be either acknowledged or intercepted immediately whether it is Ecuadoran, Russian or Martian." Recent UFO sightings have led to the creation of the agency that hopes to destroy or capture its technology. The members of this committee are: Abraham Ramirez Lituma, Dean of the Peruvian Air Force Academy and an expert in Aeronautical Law, anthropologist Fernando Fuenzalida, Dr. Mario Zegarra a physician, and hypnotist Anthony Choy. Thanks to A. J. Gevaerd ENGLAND DAYLIGHT UFO PHOTOGRAPHED PLUS FLYING TRIANGLES TICEHURST, EAST SUSSEX - On February 15, 2002, Mark Herbert saw a distant pulsating red light hovering over Bewl Water Reservoir at 7:00 PM, so he so he stopped to get a better look. It was then that he saw the red light was glowing in the center of a large black Flying Triangle (FT) that was the size of a 'Jumbo- Jet.' Apart from the pulsating red 'fuzzy' light in the center of the craft, there were three white/bluish lights positioned at each corner. Normally you can hear ducks and wild fowl in the area making quite a din, but now there was complete silence. The FT was hovering quite stationary and then began to move across the lake slowly and he could see its reflection in the water. Mr. Herbert says, "It flew point forward at first and then as it gathered speed, it slowly turned (on its axis) until it was flying 'flat side' forward as it passed behind me heading east. The central pulsating light began to dim and the bluish/white lights on the corners changed to amber as it increased its speed. Then quite suddenly, moving at incredible speed, it shot off and then stopped about two miles away." It hovered over Badgburry Forest and a microwave tower. The incident took ten minutes. Thanks to Omar Fowler of Phenomenon Research Association, Derby. CORNWALL TO POOLE - A Flying Triangle was tracked across Southern England on March 3, 2002. UFO investigator David Kingston received reports of a bizarre triangular craft with red and blue lights, zooming across the skies that were first spotted in St. Austell. This confirms other similar reports not far from Lyme Regis later the same day, then over Portland and Poole. Ufologist Mr. Kingston, first heard aircrew talk of seeing UFOs, during the nuclear tests on Christmas Island in 1957, while in RAF Intelligence. He then witnessed the UFOs himself that started a life long interest in cataloguing hundreds of reports. He says: "I received a number of consistent reports of a craft flying over the West country on February 15, 2002, and there is nothing like it in the world aircraft guide. It was triangular, 100 feet long with red lights all the way up on the right hand side and blue lights on the left hand side. "Underneath was what appeared to be a very large light, in the middle, glowing pale electric blue through to purple with a corona surrounding it. " Four people witnessed it and described it as gliding silently at about 2,500 feet and hovering quietly above Portland. The last sighting was near Poole, about two hours after the first." Thanks to Gary Farshores. ALTON BARNES - Pictures from UFO and 'Crop Circle' Researcher Mathew Williams have captured what appears to be a triangular craft over Wiltshire near the famous Alton Barnes White Horse carved into the hill. The object has a weird shape, but when the contrast on the photo is increased a triangular outline is apparent. Mathew says, "I didn't know this was on this shot. Wow, I shot a triangular UFO on my digital camera." Thanks to Jeff Rense www.jeffrense.com. CHINA LAUNCHES ASTRONAUT DUMMY China launched the third Shenzhou spaceship test flight on March 25, 2002, at 2215 local time, which is 1415 UTC. This flight of Shenzhou carries a dummy astronaut instrumented to monitor life support systems. The next flight is expected to carry the first live Chinese Astronauts. The second stage of the Chang Zheng 2F launch vehicle entered a 197 x 326 km x 42.4-degree orbit at 1425 UTC and separated from Shenzhou. At about 2120 UTC Shenzhou used its own engine to raise its orbit to 332 x 337 kilometers. Shenzhou has an orbital module, a reentry vehicle, and a propulsion/service module, and its design is similar to the Russian Soyuz. Thanks to Space.com AIR VICTORY MUSEUM TO EXPAND UFO DISPLAY I am now building an expanded UFO Exhibit at the Air Victory Museum in Medford, New Jersey, 20 miles east of Philadelphia at the South Jersey Regional Airport. There is now small display of forty UFO pictures next to an F-14 Tomcat fighter aircraft. One out of every five visitors, particularly the children ask about UFOs. The museum wants to greatly expand the UFO display to give its patrons what they ask for. We can use your help with photos, videos and any spare UFO or parts you may have. This will be the largest UFO display east of the Mississippi River, where fifty million people can reach less than a days drive. The Phantom F- 4, F-14 Tomcat, A-7 Corsair, E2-B Hawkeye, F-104 G are among the aircraft on display. The nonprofit educational museum emphasizes victory through Air Power, and that America's youth should seek careers in the applied sciences. The museum emphases extraordinary examples of aerospace technological achievements. Some of the greatest examples are in our skies and reported in these files. http://www.airvictorymuseum.net "PROJECT JEHOVAH" AND "WHITE PEBBLE" WERE LIKELY UFO PROJECTS Robert Collins writes...The document at our website was leaked to Tim Cooper in early 2001, and is page 21, and dated October 2, 1962, during the J. F. Kennedy era and is likely the "second cover page" to the Mj12 Executive Briefing. We believe the "bleed through" pages are due to either thermal fax's printers or carbons. Please notice the code word "White Pebble" and "Project Jehovah" under Mj12. Albert Einstein, Robert Oppenheimer, Theodore von Karman and James Doolittle were all reported to be connected with Project Jehovah. These and other such "code words/projects" have appeared in a number of other documents. Also, please note that this is copy 1 of 2 with TS Control Number "T310010-055" where "T" means CIA Tinker files. The "I" and "R" are switched in the word "SECURITY." The reason for this "typo error" was for tracking the document. This document was probably typed from its appearance by one of the Mj-12 Group Technical Advisory Panel (MTAP-12) members and since "access" was extremely limited there was likely no "peer review." Sources tell us that this document "reads right" but regardless, Bob and Ryan Wood are continuing to have forensics done on this and the other 19 pages. Thanks to Robert Collins UFO / ET CONGRESS will be held April 6-7, 2002, Days Inn on Highway 206 in Bordentown, New Jersey. See http://www.drufo.org/ for details. BEFORE YOU BUY OR SELL A HOME SEE MY FREE REPORT All real estate agents are not the same? Some real estate agents are part timers and inexperienced while others are experts. When you are selling or buying your home, you need to make sure you have the best real estate agent working for you! Picking the wrong one can be a big mistake that can waste your time and cost you thousands! Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get a free copy of this report e-mail us at Majorstar@aol.com. We can also help you with your own or corporate relocation. MUFON UFO JOURNAL - For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL that costs only $35 per year by contacting MUFONHQ@aol.com. or soon to be HQ@mufon.com.. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Regards, George A. Filer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 349 From: Edoardo Russo <e.russo@cisu.org> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:14:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:47:10 -0500 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 349 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 349 - 28 MARCH 2002 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) Contents: - The Return Of E.T. - New Telephone Number For The C.I.S.U THE RETURN OF "E.T. - THE MOVIE" The Easter Weekend marks the re-release throughout Italy (exactly twenty years after its first distribution) of the film "E.T. - The Extraterrestrial", directed by Steven Spielberg. Following in the footsteps of the preceding UFO film "Close Encounters Of The Third Kind", the movie enjoyed enormous success in 1982, recounting the story of a small alien stranded on Earth following the forced landing of his UFO; his escape, during which he was tracked down by American armed forces; his capture, his subsequent escape, his encounter with some children; and finally, his recovery by his fellow space beings. As is typical with these "new releases", the movie was restored, having been expanded with unedited scenes, new special effects and a remastered soundtrack. [Il Mattino, 14 March; Il Giorno, 26 March, and various other dailies; Ufo-Italia, 14 through 26 March; collaboration by Gildo Persone'] NEW TELEPHONE NUMBER FOR THE C.I.S.U As a final move in the C.I.S.U.'s relocation to its new headquarters in Turin, a new telephone number has been set up for the Italian Center for UFO Studies: +39.011.30.78.63. While the old phone number (which has been active without interruption since 1985) remains active as an answering machine capacity but without the further possibility of responding "directly" during weekly headquarter meetings, the new phone number will again make it possible to speak directly with one of the Turin-based members during the Tuesday-evening meetings (between 9 pm and 11 pm); meanwhile, during the remainder of the week, as always, there will instead still be a answering machine active twenty-four hours a day. [Collaboration by Matteo Leone] Collaborators on this edition were: Matteo Leone and Gildo Persone'. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader 1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684 ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gjpresto@mediaone.net Webpage: http://profiles.yahoo.com/italoman9 - - - (c) 2002 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 329.02.79 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Dan McEvoy? - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 02:40:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:48:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Dan McEvoy? - Velez >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:23:40 -0800 >Subject: Dan McEvoy? >I'm wondering if any of you out there have ever heard of Dan >McEvoy. This person is involved in 'investigating' the Jonathan >Reed UFO Hoax and is one of its supporters. >McEvoy claims to be involved or to have been involved with >MUFON, the Center for UFO Studies and Hopkins' Intruder's >Foundation. He claims to have been researching UFOs for 18 years >and to have taught and lectured on the subject. Hiya Royce, McEvoy & IF? Nope, never heard of him. I worked with Budd from 1993 through to 1999. From 95 through 99 I was the webmaster for IF and I was actively involved in every aspect of it online and off. Mr. McEvoy's involvement would have to have been either before or after my time. If you can get some dates as to when his involvement with Budd and IF took place, it might help you in figuring out if he's 'fabricating' a background in ufology. You might want to ask Greg Sandow who was also closely connected with Budd and IF during the same time period that I was. He may want to comment. For my part I can tell you that I never heard of him. If _anybody_ became involved with the Intruders Foundation in any significant way during that 6 year time frame I would have been the first one to hear about it directly from Budd. He made it a point to introduce me, and put me in touch with anybody who either supported IF or performed any work on its behalf. Best, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Phoenix Case - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 02:33:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:58:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Hebert >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 05:25:13 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case <snip> >According to their records (I have >a copy of some of these obtained through FOIA) the Maryland Air >National Guard was conducting exercises on the Barry Goldwater >Test Range. <snip> >The lights were seen at 10:00 PM, and flares should have been >reported by the residents of Gila Bend or, if they were as far >south as Dr. Bruce thinks they were, then they should have been >seen in Tucson. Bill, I do appreciate you taking the time to explain your research and I apologize for asking so many questions. I can see the discrepancies you point out and a few more that I find odd. Above you state that flares should have been reported by the residents of Gila Bend and, according to Dr. Maccabee, in Tucson. Did anyone report seeing flares in the Gila Bend and/or Tucson that night? Is it normal for residents to report seeing flares to authorities? <snip> >Not necessarily. They have stated that they believe it can >account for the sightings and their first statements indicate >very clearly that they meant the 8:30 sightings, not the 10:00 >sightings. Peculiarly, the Maryland ANG never came forth to >state where the flares were dropped, how many, and what time. >None of the FOIA docs I have say anything about flares at all! >This is most peculiar as if they are being deliberately evasive, >but why would the Air Force be evasive. Luke AFB , who >authorizes the use of the Barry Goldwater test range, responded >to their FOIA request that they knew nothing about flares on the >test range that night. The only place the ANG said they >conducted the exercise and released flares was on the North Tac >Range, about 35-40 miles from our position and away from the >direction indicated by Dr. Bruce. These are more discrepancies. Bear with me, Bill, I'm trying to figure this out. (Thank you for your patience!) 1. According to their records, the Maryland Air National Guard was officially conducting exercises on the Barry Goldwater Test Range. So, the records place the Maryland Air National Guard as conducting exercises on the Barry Goldwater Test Range on March 13, 1997 but they never said they dropped any flares in the Barry Goldwater Test Range area. Is this accurate? 2. The only place the ANG (Maryland?) _said_ they conducted exercises _and_ released flares was on the North Tac Range. Yet their records indicate they were supposedly conducting exercises on the Barry Goldwater Test Range not the North Tac Range. Right? 3. Even thought the Maryland Air National Guard _said_ they dropped flares on the North Tac Range, flares are not mentioned in any of the official documents you have acquired. Correct? If I've got it right, I can see the discrepancies you are referring to. If they, the Air Force, wanted people to believe it was the Maryland Air National Guard dropping flares, why would they say the ANG was one place when they were documented as being someplace else? Not the way I'd go about it. If the Air Force doesn't know what their planes are doing where, when and why, this does little to instill confidence in the armed services among the American people. Instead of feeling reassured and safe, it should cause more concern. Either the Air Force is confused or deliberately trying to confuse us. What say ye, Bill? A. Hebert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Anti-Noise Systems - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:38:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:03:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Anti-Noise Systems - Morris >From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Anti-Noise Systems >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:49:19 -0000 >Someone might be interested to check out this link: >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992094 >A few of you were discussing the feasibility of using out-of- >phase anti-noise for silencing chopper rotor noise recently. >This patent comes advertised as a potential silencer for >cyclical noise sources such as compressors, drills and aircraft >engines. Yes, there has been some coverage of this in UK newspapers too. We always felt that similar on-board systems would help to explain the silent nature of some of the large man-made flying triangles reported to us in the UK. Eric.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' - Bott From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:56:24 +1200 (NZST) Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:07:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' - Bott >From: Paul Thompson <MrApol@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:19:58 EST >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: Miltary Codenames 'Olympic' & 'Majestic' >I recall that some 'documents' supposedly connected to the Alien >Autopsy film claimed the recovery of the dead aliens was >codenamed 'Anvil'. >Operation Anvil, of course, was the invasion of southern France >in August 1944 - my father participated in the landing! >Needless to say, it is highly dubious that code names would be >re-used. >Even more curious, when the discrepancy over the name 'Anvil' >was pointed out, the word disappeared from the so-called alien >autopsy story. Regretably however the Codename 'Majestic' is firmly entrenched in the MJ-12 myth and is quite inseparable from this despite the fact that the true origins or use of the Codename is known (being the replacement codename for 'Olympic' - the proposed wartime invasion of Japan). Regards Murray Bott -- Email : murrayb@win.co.nz Voice : 64-9-6345285 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Nick Pope's Weird World - April 2002 From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:45:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:11:05 -0500 Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World - April 2002 Hot Gossip UK April 2002 Welcome to the April 2002 round up of the weird and the wonderful, with all the latest news concerning UFOs, abductions, the paranormal and much more besides. The British Government and UFOs The April issue of UFO Magazine (the British title) is out now and includes a world exclusive article that Georgina Bruni and I have written revealing sensational new information about the British Government's handling of the UFO phenomenon. The article focuses on the period immediately after the Second World War and shows how the key figures within the scientific intelligence community were involved in the debate over UFOs. The article is based on applications that Georgina made to the Ministry of Defence under the Code of Practice on Access to Government Information and on research that we have done at the Public Record Office in Kew. It gives what we believe to be the most comprehensive overview yet of how the British Government first became embroiled in the UFO mystery, and how senior military and political figures were drawn into the debate, some taking a sceptical view but others being considerably more open- minded. The article runs to 5500 words, covers over 20 pages and is supported by numerous photographs and official documents. It takes up between a quarter and a third of the entire magazine. UFO Magazine editor Graham Birdsall says that it is quite unprecedented to dedicate so much of the magazine to one feature, but he was as excited as we were about some of the new information that we have uncovered. The revelations include the following: New information about the wartime British Government's attitude to foo fighter reports from the Royal Air Force. Official interest in the so-called ghost rockets, including details of how British military intelligence secured what they believed was debris from a ghost rocket. The subsequent examination of this debris by the Chemical Analysis Section at the Royal Aircraft Establishment, Farnborough. Details of how MOD Technical Intelligence Staff made a secret field visit to try to locate a possible UFO crash site near the residence of Winston Churchill. The role played by Director of Intelligence R V Jones and MOD Chief Scientific Adviser Sir Henry Tizard. The full story of the MOD's Flying Saucer Working Party. Top Secret Directorate of Scientific Intelligence and Joint Technical Intelligence Committee documents on UFOs. The role of the CIA in influencing British Government policy on UFOs. How the sceptic versus believer debate about UFOs raged at the very heart of the Establishment. The above represents only a fraction of the material covered by this UFO Magazine special feature, but I hope it gives a flavour of what to expect. Some of the material will be highly controversial and some will challenge current thinking on how UFOs are investigated by the MOD, the military and the scientific intelligence community. Georgina Bruni and I will be speaking at UFO Magazine's September conference in Leeds, detailing the way in which the post-war British Government handled research and investigation into UFOs, and how the key figures in the shadowy world of scientific intelligence took vastly different views on this subject. Check out www.ufomag.co.uk for more details. New Blue Book Information Most ufologists are familiar with the work of Edward Ruppelt, a former head of the USAF's Project Blue Book. Ruppelt's book The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects is probably the book that I would recommend above all others for those wanting an insight into the way in which the US Government and military viewed the UFO phenomenon from 1947 to the mid Fifties. Though the second edition of Ruppelt's book was rather more sceptical, the initial 1956 edition suggested that he was pretty open-minded. He dismissed the idea of a cover-up, but while he was adamant there was no proof that UFOs were interplanetary, he certainly didn't dismiss the idea. There are very few people who have been involved in military or government UFO research programmes who are on the record, so it's worth noting that another such individual's recollections are now available on the Internet. The man in question is Hector Quintanilla, who headed Blue Book from 1963 until its termination in 1969. His take on the subject is far more sceptical than Ruppelt's, and he has some particularly harsh words for Blue Book's scientific consultant Dr J Allen Hynek. The unpublished manuscript is entitled UFOs - An Air Force Dilemma and is available at www.nidsci.org which is the website of the National Institute for Discovery Science. It's a fascinating insight into the politics and internal wrangling of Blue Book, and shows that government UFO research is characterised by exactly the same sort of sceptic versus believer rows as occur in civilian ufology. This was certainly true of my tour of duty in Sec(AS), and is also a key theme of the article that Georgina Bruni and I have written for UFO Magazine. USA Today and The Search for Extraterrestrial Life The prestigious USA Today newspaper recently made a front page comment about the search for extraterrestrial life, and ran a comprehensive article on this in the second section of the paper. The feature appeared on March 19 and highlighted the increasing number of extrasolar planets being discovered. It also explained how astronomers hope to find Earth-like planets, then use interferometers and the technique of spectrographic analysis to look for chemical indicators (e.g. ozone and nitrous oxide) that might suggest the presence of life. It's good to see this sort of work getting increasing coverage in the mainstream media and not just the specialist scientific press. Eye Spy Issue 8 of Eye Spy magazine has just been published. This magazine is dedicated to the shadowy world of intelligence, and they have already had a number of genuine scoops. Check http://www.eyespymag.com for further details, and check http://www.spiescafe.com for details if you're in the United States or Canada. Ed's Note: Nick Pope's four books, Open Skies, Closed Minds, The Uninvited, Operation Thunder Child and Operation Lightning Strike are available from all good bookshops and from the usual Internet book sites. His UK publishers are Simon & Schuster. In America, The Overlook Press publish his books in hardback while the paperbacks are produced by Dell Publishing. ____________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:12:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:20:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:06:28 +0000 >THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT AND UFOs >OFFICIAL HISTORY REVEALED >By Georgina Bruni & Nick Pope See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/mar/m28-022.shtml As Errol quite rightly explained, this List is not for rudeness, nastiness, bickering and name-calling. We are willing to answer questions on our research and our article in UFO Magazine www.ufomag.co.uk but will not get drawn into a slanging match with certain British ufologists who seem to take pleasure in trying to discredit our work. Unfortunately there is far too much in-fighting in ufology and this is its downfall. Add to this the egos of some researchers, and the problems with debunkers and it's no wonder that the subject is not taken as seriously as it should be. UFO Magazine published an article and documents including _Top_Secret_ documents that have not been published before, and all original sources are credited, most notably the Ministry of Defence and Public Record Office. We think this is a service to ufology. If other researchers can add to what we have already published, then we sincerely welcome that. Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 07:46:40 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:27:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Hamilton >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 02:33:36 -0600 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 05:25:13 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Case ><snip> >>According to their records (I have >>a copy of some of these obtained through FOIA) the Maryland Air >>National Guard was conducting exercises on the Barry Goldwater >>Test Range. ><snip> >>The lights were seen at 10:00 PM, and flares should have been >>reported by the residents of Gila Bend or, if they were as far >>south as Dr. Bruce thinks they were, then they should have been >>seen in Tucson. >Bill, I do appreciate you taking the time to explain your >research and I apologize for asking so many questions. I can see >the discrepancies you point out and a few more that I find odd. > >Above you state that flares should have been reported by >the residents of Gila Bend and, according to Dr. Maccabee, >in Tucson. Did anyone report seeing flares in the Gila Bend >and/or Tucson that night? > >Is it normal for residents to report seeing flares to >authorities? No, not necessarily, but you would think on the night in question which was given so much publicity that someone would step forward and say they saw the flares at close range. Instead, the only report I received from Tucson was from a couple who stated they had seen unusual amber lights NW of their position that did not resemble the flares they were used to seeing. That was another one that raises questions. ><snip> >>Not necessarily. They have stated that they believe it can >>account for the sightings and their first statements indicate >>very clearly that they meant the 8:30 sightings, not the 10:00 >>sightings. Peculiarly, the Maryland ANG never came forth to >>state where the flares were dropped, how many, and what time. >>None of the FOIA docs I have say anything about flares at all! >>This is most peculiar as if they are being deliberately evasive, >>but why would the Air Force be evasive. Luke AFB , who >>authorizes the use of the Barry Goldwater test range, responded >>to their FOIA request that they knew nothing about flares on the >>test range that night. The only place the ANG said they >>conducted the exercise and released flares was on the North Tac >>Range, about 35-40 miles from our position and away from the >>direction indicated by Dr. Bruce. These are more discrepancies. >Bear with me, Bill, I'm trying to figure this out. (Thank you >for your patience!) >1. According to their records, the Maryland Air National Guard >was officially conducting exercises on the Barry Goldwater Test >Range. So, the records place the Maryland Air National Guard as >conducting exercises on the Barry Goldwater Test Range on March >13, 1997 but they never said they dropped any flares in the >Barry Goldwater Test Range area. Is this accurate? It was a spokesman from Luke AFB who said they had no knowledge of a flare drop on the range that night though it is Luke that authorizes these exercises. Why did they not know of the Maryland ANG exercise since it supposedly happens every winter? >2. The only place the ANG (Maryland?) _said_ they conducted >exercises _and_ released flares was on the North Tac Range. Yet >their records indicate they were supposedly conducting exercises >on the Barry Goldwater Test Range not the North Tac Range. >Right? Not quite. The North Tac range is a subsection of the Barry Goldwater range and is south and west of Phoenix near to Gila Bend. >3. Even thought the Maryland Air National Guard _said_ they >dropped flares on the North Tac Range, flares are not mentioned >in any of the official documents you have acquired. Correct? That is correct. >If I've got it right, I can see the discrepancies you are >referring to. >If they, the Air Force, wanted people to believe it was the >Maryland Air National Guard dropping flares, why would they say >the ANG was one place when they were documented as being >someplace else? Not the way I'd go about it. See above. >If the Air Force doesn't know what their planes are doing where, >when and why, this does little to instill confidence in the >armed services among the American people. Instead of feeling >reassured and safe, it should cause more concern. When Captain Benz of the Arizona ANG asked the AF initially to check for flare drops on March 13th, the AF answered initially that they had no record of such a flare drop, then a week later they said they checked foreign visitor logs and found that the Maryland ANG was conducting their Operation Snowbird. This is peculiar since it is supposed to happen annually, you would think it would come to mind. Also, Davis-Monthan AFB issued a statement to the press (July 1997) that the A-10s were out on the test range dropping their unused LU-U2 (lew2) flares before returning to base at 8:30 PM. I could not reach the base PIO, Lt. Keith Shepherd for verification or to question him further as I was repeatedly told he was away and unavailble. Make what you will of this, but it seems suspicious that we could not get specific answers from the Air Force or the ANG and none of their statements cooberrate Dr. Maccabee's analysis or agree with my observations and analysis so one wonders what the facts really are. >Either the Air Force is confused or deliberately trying to >confuse us. >What say ye, Bill? Well, Amy, I would say the Air Force did nothing to enlighten us and we actually caught them in a lie. When we stated that witnesses came forth who saw and heard jets taking off from Luke AFB at around 10 PM and vectored in on these unknown orbs over the west side, Luke stated to the press that no airplanes flew out of Luke at night, that jets were bedded down for the night, and Luke was only a training base (true) and did not send up interceptors. I went out to a viewpoint near Luke on April 22nd and watched several jets taking off and landing as they went out and returned up to 9:30 PM. So much for bedded down jets! Strangely, in an FOIA response, Luke spokesperson Nel M. Flagler said that jets were sent up on night training missions, not intercept flights. In the same response Nel stated that they did not say the lights were caused by flares and did not know where the question of aerial flares originated. Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Nick Pope's Weird World - April 2002 From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:23:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:32:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Nick Pope's Weird World - April 2002 >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World - April 2002 >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:45:05 +0100 >Hot Gossip UK April 2002 Greetings to List Members: Nick Pope and Georgina Bruni's remarks regarding Capt. Edward J. Ruppelt and his book are noteworthy. For even more clarification and insight into Capt. Ruppelt and Project Blue Book, list members might want to read: _Captain Edward J. Ruppelt: Summer of the Saucers - 1952_ by Mike Hall and Wendy Connors. It gives an in-depth account of not only Ruppelt's life, but the Blue Book investigations during Ruppelt's term. There are many new photos of Ruppelt, new information taken directly from his private papers and new insights on cases. Indexed for ease in research. Cost is $27.95 USD. The book is available through Amazon.com and Arcturus Books. Thank you, Wendy Connors and Michael Hall
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Barry From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:50:39 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 16:46:52 -0500 Subject: Barry I was a kid, on the air one day, speaking with some guy whose handle was "Barry." It was on 20 meter SSB, single side band. He was running a kilowatt. CFRB runs fifty of those if I recall. Most American stations, the large network jobs, also run 50,000 watts. Or fifty KW. Any way, I was no where near a KW. _I_ was running 60 watts. Into a dipole antenna, which meant that I had very little directivity. Barry was running his one thousand watts into a directional multi element beam. Some rig. We got to talking about this and that as hams did in them days. He asked me where I lived and I told him the Bronx. He said he lived in Arizona. I asked him if he had ever seen a UFO. Finding that a rather odd question, he did not. He answered as soon as I turned it over to him. We did not have break-in or duplexing in those days. You just held the mike button until you were finished talking and the equipment (mine consisted of a Heathkit which I made myself and a series of ganged World War Two bomber receivers) switched from transmit to receive. Which I also made into a triple conversion four band receiver. Barry said, "Well, I've never seen one but I know lots of credible people who did. Have you ever seen one?" "Yes, Barry. Just the other day. A light in the sky that was going the wrong direction, too slow... etc." He said something like, "For a young man, you seem to be looking up a lot. Tell me, do you believe in people from other worlds?" "I don't believe in Santa Claus from age three." "Which means...?" "Which means I believe in intelligent life visiting here in those things and taking people out of their beds without our permission and I'll be darned if I believe in a fat man coming down my chimney." Barry and I spoke about UFOs and stuff for about an hour and a half until the band went out on us. We scheduled other conversations many times over and spoke honestly and freely about everything. It was only until I had been speaking with Barry for about six months when one of the brothers at my school told me who Barry was. He was Barry Goldwater. And I had, after that, never met him on the air again. I just thought you folks would be interested in that story. Because Barry took a bad rap when he suggested nuking Nam and other assorted statements of more fancy than fact. But he was one hell of a ham. Which is supposed to mean that great hams make great politicians. Not in my case. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 16:51:09 -0500 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:12:48 +0100 >>From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:06:28 +0000 Hello Georgina, <snip> >>THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT AND UFOs >>OFFICIAL HISTORY REVEALED >>By Georgina Bruni & Nick Pope >See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/mar/m28-022.shtml >As Errol quite rightly explained, this List is not for rudeness, >nastiness, bickering and name-calling. <snip> We all concur. <snip> >We are willing to answer questions on our research and our >article in UFO Magazine www.ufomag.co.uk but will not get drawn >into a slanging match with certain British ufologists who seem >to take pleasure in trying to discredit our work. <snip> Same here on this side of the planet. Although I get the feeling of a slight difference (is it only me?): in North America there doesn't seem to be any new stuff going around in ufology. Nothing major, so to speak - saved a maybe breakthrough medical research with abductees helmed by Jim Mortellaro. There is even a chance Mortellaro gets credited for it some day. Things seem to be stirring quite a bit in your country. <snip> >Unfortunately there is far too much in-fighting in ufology and >this is its downfall. Add to this the egos of some researchers, >and the problems with debunkers and it's no wonder that the >subject is not taken as seriously as it should be. <snip> Ufologists are still defending the value of historical cases that should have been put in some FAQ long ago. If you can't have the data recognized, what future is there to any discussion? This is the problem with belief systems: the best way to promote it is to keep everybody from looking at the data. Even an hypothetic "yes, but what if" is denied. I believe ufologists may have some responsibility in this, as they are often too eager to jump into an argument that has been resolved many times before. Take the Socorro case for instance; it has been established that strong winds were blowing that day in a direction exactly opposite to the escape path of the 'vehicle'. Yet, against all scientific principles, time and again, the balloon theory is brought forward, and the wind direction contradiction is _never_ taken into consideration. Maybe there should be a web site with all interesting historical cases, the arguments, and the counter-arguments. Then, the next time somebody comes up with the balloon theory, it can be answered in this (suggested) way: "at: http//www.so&so&so.ufos/Socorro/index.html#balloon This question has been addressed" Next. End of argument. We thus might get somewhere, some day. But as long has everybody is playing the alzheimer-parrot game, we won't be getting anywhere. This is not a critique, it's an observation: we aren't getting anywhere, are we? Please don't shoot the messenger. <snip> >UFO Magazine published an article and documents including >_Top_Secret_ documents that have not been published before, and >all original sources are credited, most notably the Ministry of >Defence and Public Record Office. We think this is a service to >ufology. >If other researchers can add to what we have already published, >then we sincerely welcome that. <snip> I went to your site and found only an abstract of you research. Is buying the magazine the only source of your research? Are the documents presented in their integral form? Regards, Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Dan McEvoy? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 03:13:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:12:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Dan McEvoy? - Hatch >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 02:40:21 -0500 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Subject: Re: Dan McEvoy? >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:23:40 -0800 >>Subject: Dan McEvoy? >>I'm wondering if any of you out there have ever heard of Dan >>McEvoy. This person is involved in 'investigating' the Jonathan >>Reed UFO Hoax and is one of its supporters. >>McEvoy claims to be involved or to have been involved with >>MUFON, the Center for UFO Studies and Hopkins' Intruder's >>Foundation. He claims to have been researching UFOs for 18 years >>and to have taught and lectured on the subject. >Hiya Royce, >McEvoy & IF? >Nope, never heard of him. I worked with Budd from 1993 through >to 1999. From 95 through 99 I was the webmaster for IF and I was >actively involved in every aspect of it online and off. Mr. >McEvoy's involvement would have to have been either before or >after my time. If you can get some dates as to when his >involvement with Budd and IF took place, it might help you in >figuring out if he's 'fabricating' a background in ufology. >You might want to ask Greg Sandow who was also closely connected >with Budd and IF during the same time period that I was. He may >want to comment. For my part I can tell you that I never heard >of him. If _anybody_ became involved with the Intruders >Foundation in any significant way during that 6 year time frame >I would have been the first one to hear about it directly from >Budd. He made it a point to introduce me, and put me in touch >with anybody who either supported IF or performed any work on >its behalf. Hello Royce, John: If I ever read about McEvoy, I completely forgot about it. The name rings no bells here at all. Did he claim to write any books or journal articles? Best - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:48:23 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:15:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:52:21 -0600 >>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:09:53 +0000 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman <snip> >>I would have thought that an English major should have been >>familiar with the literary device of hyperbole and not have been >>so lacking a sense of proportion as to describe it as "malicious >>fiction" - it almost makes me think the Pelican might be right >>about the 'paranoid' bit!. >Not much of a response, I'm afraid. You have managed to evade >every point I've raised, while feebling trying to switch the >subject from the Pelican's shameless inventions - er, excuse me, >"literary device of hyperbole" - to the alleged paranoia of >those who expose the inventions. Not good. Jerry, you are the master of avoidance, in that you have concentrated on one paragraph in the Pelican's piece, and totally avoided addressing the rest of his argument. I find this particularly surprising in that, if you do ever get round to reading it, you might find that the Pelican's views on John Keel are not entirely dissimilar to your own. >>It is interesting that you take such issue with one humourous >>paragraph, and neglect the rest of the Pelican's argument. >>Probably that tells us more about Jerome Clark than it does >>about the Pelican. >Now _there's_ a defense. I guess that from now on, I'll just >assume that anything that isn't true or logical in the pages of >Magonia is meant to be "humorous." As you seem to find fault with almost everything in Magonia, no doubt it'll be a laugh a minute. >All editors and writers take >note: you now have the perfect dodge. Nonhumorously speaking, >you've just told us, alas, more about yourself and your winged >associate than you've told us about Jerome Clark and those hated >heretics otherwise known as "America's ETH ufologists." >Sorry, John: but I would have expected better of you. You expect so much of your humble servant that I am fated always to disappoint you, Jerry. Almost as much as you disappoint me with your humourless - and, dare I say, 'paranoid'? - reaction to the Pelican's teasing remarks ('hyperbole', 'teasing', he's a versatile bird). Dick Hall and Bruce Maccabee both managed fairly light-hearted replies to a fairly light-hearted paragraph. You react with phrases such as "unmitigated falsehoods", "shameless inventions" and "malicious fiction". Maybe being buried under several feet of Minnesotan snow has temporarily frozen your sense of humour. Would it be too much to ask you to struggle past the Pelican's unmitigatedly dishonest and shamelessly malicious first paragraph, to discuss the gist of his article? -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Phoenix Case - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 16:14:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:20:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Maccabee >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 02:33:36 -0600 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 05:25:13 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Case <snip> >> They have stated that they believe it can >>account for the sightings and their first statements indicate >>very clearly that they meant the 8:30 sightings, not the 10:00 >>sightings. Peculiarly, the Maryland ANG never came forth to >>state where the flares were dropped, how many, and what time. >>None of the FOIA docs I have say anything about flares at all! >>This is most peculiar as if they are being deliberately evasive, >>but why would the Air Force be evasive. Luke AFB , who >>authorizes the use of the Barry Goldwater test range, responded >>to their FOIA request that they knew nothing about flares on the >>test range that night. The only place the ANG said they >>conducted the exercise and released flares was on the North Tac >>Range, about 35-40 miles from our position and away from the >>direction indicated by Dr. Bruce. These are more discrepancies. >Bear with me, Bill, I'm trying to figure this out. (Thank you >for your patience!) >1. According to their records, the Maryland Air National Guard >was officially conducting exercises on the Barry Goldwater Test >Range. So, the records place the Maryland Air National Guard as >conducting exercises on the Barry Goldwater Test Range on March >13, 1997 but they never said they dropped any flares in the >Barry Goldwater Test Range area. Is this accurate?> >2. The only place the ANG (Maryland?) _said_ they conducted >exercises _and_ released flares was on the North Tac Range. Yet >their records indicate they were supposedly conducting exercises >on the Barry Goldwater Test Range not the North Tac Range. >Right? >3. Even thought the Maryland Air National Guard _said_ they >dropped flares on the North Tac Range, flares are not mentioned >in any of the official documents you have acquired. Correct? >If I've got it right, I can see the discrepancies you are >referring to. >If they, the Air Force, wanted people to believe it was the >Maryland Air National Guard dropping flares, why would they say >the ANG was one place when they were documented as being >someplace else? Not the way I'd go about it. It is my understanding that the flares which were seen in Phoenix were at high altitude (above 10,000 ft) and were remaining flares _after_ the military exercises were over. They could have been ejected "anywhere" over a military reservation as the planes were heading home. Apparently they were not allowed to land with unused flares. I conjecture: that one plane dropped a single flare (or perhaps 2 close together, making the "light at the left" on the Krysten/Rairdon videos, and then _another_ plane dumped the full load of 8, one after another, while it flew in an arc shaped path, forming lights numbered 2 through 9 in the Krysten/Rairdon videos. See: http://brumac.8k.com click on "PAPERS" and scroll down to the section on Phoenix lights to see representative screen grabs from the various videos. (Be aware that this report BEGINS with the analysis of Jan 14, 1998 sighting, NOT March 13, 1997. Have to "penetrate" the report somewhat to get to March 13.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:24:43 -0500 Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? One of my favourite sayings (which I have copyrighted) is: "Don't believe believers, and be skeptical of skeptics." My focus today is on the latter, particularly concerning a new book by a popular skeptic, Phil Plait. Plait's articles in the past have been very enlightening and right on in terms of correcting some misconceptions about space and astronomy. He was one of the loudest opponents of the Hale- Bopp "spaceship" fiasco (and rightly so; he has some choice words for Chuck Shramek, Ed Dames, et al.). He may go a bit far in his criticisms of astronomy as portrayed in Star Trek, since I think most people realize it's just a fictional TV show, but then again, I have met some really wide-eyed trekkers. Plait's book Bad Astronomy is just out. He has a link to publishing info about it from his website: www.badastronomy.com As skeptical books go, it's pretty good. And then there's his chapter on UFOs. He starts by describing his visit to a launch of the shuttle, and his bewilderment as he watched a formation of lights approach the cape. He was puzzled by these UFOs until they flew close enough for him to see they were nothing more than ducks in flight. And, since someone with such an advanced observational ability can be mystified by ducks, other UFO witnesses must be misidentifying things all over the place, too. But then he gives his most damning evidence. The people who spend most of their time watching the sky (a lot more than the average person) are amateur astronomers. And, since no amateur astronomer has told Plait about their UFO sightings, no amateur astronomers have ever seen UFOs, and therefore only people unfamiliar with the sky see UFOs. And since witnesses are unfamiliar with the sky, their UFO sightings are all explainable. Nice argument, except that it's completely wrong. Even in the small sample of UFOs reported in Canada last year, there were two separate reports by amateur astronomers. Furthermore, Plait has obviously never read the Gert Herb Report, published a few decades ago, which gave the results of a survey of amateur astronomers, noting that a significant percentage of them do, in fact, see and report UFOs. Amateurs not good enough for you? Peter Sturrock polled professional astronomers and found many of them have seen UFOs, too. [Note to Errol and anyone else: Are either of these available online?] [Nope. Only a mention of your article at P-47--ebk] There are a few other problems with Plait's reasoning. One is that amateur astronomers aren't interested in moving lights in the sky any more than they are in identifiable aircraft. The ones I hang out with want to do some specific imaging of nebulas and galaxies, and spend a lot of time looking through eyepieces with tiny fields of view. Of course, many have now switched to computer-guided scopes and spend their time in warm-up rooms, often miles away from the telescope itself. Professional astronomers are even worse in terms of observation. Few actually DO any optical observations. Many haven't looked through a telescope or spent any time looking at constellations since their undergraduate days. The second problem is that since Plait makes it clear he thinks UFOs are nothing more than ducks and stars, would any amateur astronomer in his right mind tell him about his sighting? Not a chance. And get ridiculed? Forget it! And think of the way in which UFOs are dealt with in college and university courses on astronomy. In my experience, profs at most would offer a sneer if UFOs were mentioned in class, and at best, would point to a standard textbook such as Pasachoff, where UFOs were stated emphatically to be rubbbish. This approach by Plait to the UFO phenomenon made me pause to consider how well he has researched and considered the other topics in his book. Is his book Bad Astronomy exactly that - bad? Chris Rutkowski Media Relations Coordinator Public Affairs Department University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 voice: (204) 474-9514 e-mail: Chris_Rutkowski@umanitoba.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 5 Voyager Newsletter No. 21 From: James Easton <voyager@ufoworld.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:09:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 17:29:29 -0500 Subject: Voyager Newsletter No. 21 Voyager Newsletter No. 21 1. 'Alien Autopsy': The Origin Revealed? 2. Socorro Update. 3. The Portage County [Ravenna], Spaur-Neff Case. 4. Kenneth Arnold and 'Little Tahoma'. 5. 'The Sky At Night'. 6. Photographic Evidence of 'Black aircraft?'? 7. The UFO Research List. O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O 1. 'Alien Autopsy': The Origin Revealed? As first mentioned on the 'UFO Research List' [UFORL], I recently came across the following: http://www.mhvf.net/forum/scifihorror/posts/124218244.html 'Don's FANTASIA Diary 7-26-2001' "Because of the dinner, we all skipped the 7:45pm showing of FUCCON FAMILY (it's playing again later) and went to Club 300 to keep getting tanked on more beer. About a half hour after we sat down, Olaf Ittenbach, director of tonight's LEGION OF THE DEAD joined us for a few pitchers. The beer kept on pouring and we had a good time. We had to get Olaf completely plastered to get ready for his film's premiere, of course! I found out that, a few years ago, some wacko actually held everyone hostage at Club 300 and finally shot himself. It's a great place to drink! Also, this might be of interest to some... remember the 'Alien Autopsy' craze a few years ago? Remember the Fox special that actually interviewed Nacho Cerda about the similarities between his film AFTERMATH and the 'autopsy' video? Well, here is a surprise. Olaf admitted (I guess he can now that the contact he had was so old) that HE was the one who helped create that damn video! The truth is revealed! He went into great detail about how they faked the film stock, etc. and said that he did it because they paid him a LOT of money to do it. So, there you have it, folks! Olaf Ittenbach, director or PREMUTOS and LEGION OF THE DEAD is the bad boy behind that controversy. We talked briefly about the Stan Winston interview and about how Winston was saying the autopsy was too real to be faked. All Olaf said was that they probably gave him LOTS of money to do the interview!" [END] A key figure in the 'alien autopsy' story was of course Volker Spielberg, a fellow German and 'music publisher' who allegedly funded Ray Santilli's acquisition from the 'Roswell cameraman' and statedly owned the 'film reels'. I'm not familiar with Ittenbach, however, a cursory research of his 'blood and gore' films does suggest an 'alien autopsy' would be consistent with the genre and his interest in 'special effects' - see: http://www.legionthemovie.com/legionolaf.html As for the claim "they faked the film stock", that's disconcerting as no 16mm 'alien autopsy' film stock was ever made available, aside from those few frames with anomalous images which didn't appear within the footage. However, his 1997 film, 'Premutos', was shot on 16mm. Although the author, Don May, has been of assistance, it seems there was indeed, "a LOT of pitchers of beer" drunk that night and recollections are a bit hazy! However, Don has suggested how Ittenbach can be contacted and I've followed that up. For a number of reasons, I would be more than a little surprised if Ittenbach _was_ responsible for creating the 'alien autopsy'. Only Ittenbach can fully resolve whether he did take credit for the original footage and if that was in fact a justified claim. Incidentally, I see that rumours of his connection were actually being circulated before the apparent July, 2001 confession to Don May and others: "Also, rumor has it that Ittenbach was responsible for the infamous Alien Autopsy footage...": http://www.vidjunkie.com/barebones/archive.htm However, there may be significant misunderstandings within Don's account of the inebriated anecdotes and I might have pieced together the true story of Ittenbach's involvement. I've discovered he was certainly a 'player' in those early days and why the rumour, even if untrue, could easily have surfaced in later years. I'll explain more in due course. [END OF EXTRACT] I'm now able to do so within this newsletter. During 1995 [when the footage was first broadcast after world- wide distribution rights had been sold], the film and encompassing 'Roswell cameraman' story featured in a documentary by 'STERN TV', a German news magazine program on the RTL channel ['stern' is apparently German for 'star']. My files contain the review from a friend in Germany, who reports that the STERN TV broadcast was called, 'How to Make an Alien' and they staged their own 'alien autopsy' for comparison. It was created by "one SFX man and 5 students (physician) in five weeks". I've located online the confirmation that Ittenbach's credits include: 1996 Roswell Alien Stern TV 16 mm, 20 min 1996 Roswell Alien Report Video, 15 min See: http://www.splatter.de/fgrafie.html Although the year doesn't equate, I'm assuming it's an error and should relate to 1995, when Ittenbach had been contracted to show how an 'alien autopsy' could, inherently, be faked. I have no record - during thoroughly documented 1996 developments - of any STERN TV interest during that year and certainly not an attempted 'alien autopsy' recreation, which would surely have been widely noted. If these assumptions are correct, then Ittenbach's 1995 'alien autopsy' did not receive favourable reviews from some who subsequently viewed the 'RTL footage'! Although Don May, President of 'Synapse Films', is now aware of Ittenbach's resultant 'alien autopsy' spoof, he remains of the opinion that Ittenbach was acknowledging he created the 'alien autopsy' footage promoted by Ray Santilli. Despite considerable efforts by myself and others to contact Ittenbach, he has not as yet clarified matters. Ray Santilli, who claimed to have bought film of an alien dissection from the 'Roswell' cameraman, wrote to me, "It's complete crap. I have never heard of the guy". I suspect Ray to be correct and the explanation is as revealed here. O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O 2. Socorro Update. Also heavily featured on UFORL in recent months has been local police officer Lonnie Zamora's 24 April, 1964 encounter with an evidently lighter-than-air [LTA] vehicle, near Socorro, New Mexico. There continue to be new developments in researching this pivotal 'UFO' case and one possibility that the object was a hot-air balloon, exceedingly rare in the US at that time. A thorough summary of that hot-air balloon evidence and a rebuttal of many factually unfounded 'points of objection', featured in 'Voyager' newsletter No. 18: http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/v18.txt Material which has since been highlighted on UFORL includes: A Freedom of Information Act [FOIA] request and response from the 'Department of the Navy, Office of Naval Research': http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/374 Professor Charles Moore, of 'Roswell'/'project Mogul' fame and his connections with 1960s hot-air balloon activity at Langmuir Atmospheric Laboratory, near Socorro: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/377 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/379 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/385 The Socorro object's 'insignia' and its resemblance to the logo for Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, New Mexico. Sandia's Research Historian investigates: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/386 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/572 The important and potentially crucial evidence which was overlooked by principal case investigators, Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Major Hector Quintanilla of 'Project Blue Book': http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/390 A proposal that there has always been a significant misunderstanding concerning the time which had elapsed, before Sergeant Chavez arrived at the 'landing site': http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/391 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/392 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/411 Professor Charles Moore claims that a 'lunar lander' test failure, from nearby White Sands, was responsible for the object Zamora witnessed. Why that theory can evidently be entirely dismissed: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/572 It might sometimes be necessary to follow a message thread for an understanding of the full context. Philip Klass believes the Socorro case can be resolved as a hoax, instigated by the local Mayor. He explained this in detail during an interview with Gary Posner, which is online at: http://members.aol.com/garypos2/Klass_inter.html Phil describes contemporary, 1964 Socorro as an, "economically depressed" area, although he didn't actually visit Socorro until 1966. The portrayal is one of a small town with a low profile and basically, not much happening. However, that's not strictly true. It would already have been known to locals and especially Socorro's Mayor, Holm Bursum Jr., that only some five to six weeks following press coverage of Zamora's report, the fourth, consecutive year of a reasonably prestigious golf tournament would be taking place at nearby New Mexico Tech campus. This tournament bore the name of Socorro's perhaps most famous citizen, Conrad Hilton, of 'Hilton hotels' fame. An online article records the tournament's history: "The annual Hilton Open is a week-long golf event held in Socorro, New Mexico, on the New Mexico Tech campus during the first full week of June. The University and its course offer an oasis in the desert of the Rio Grand valley, an hour south of Albuquerque. Hilton week is packed with events for professional and amateur golfers. As the longest-running golf tournament in New Mexico, the Hilton enjoys a long history of noteworthy players, sponsors, and events. Among those players have been Rich Beem, Don Klein, Gene Torres, Adam Kase, Ray Cragun, Shaun Haberstoh, and Mike Sauer; some of whom have been involved with the Hilton Open since its start in 1960. Over the past 40-plus years, the Hilton has grown from a single nine-hole event, to a multi-event competition including the notorious Elfego Baca Shoot. The original 9-hole tournament was the brain child of Holm Bursum Jr., then Mayor of Socorro, who wanted an event to promote the small community. Bursum, with the help of the City of Socorro and Socorro County Chamber of Commerce, started the 9-hole tournament at the New Mexico Tech Golf Course. Since its beginning, the Open has bore the name of one of Socorro's favorite native son's, Conrad Hilton, the hotel chain founder. Hilton, with his sons Barron and Conrad Jr., came to Socorro to kick off the very first event in the summer of 1960. In 1968, Holm Bursum III, took over as tournament chairman and has remained at the post since. Also in 1968, Bursum contacted Barron Hilton, chairman of Hilton Hotels Corp., to co-sponsor the tournament with First State Bank. Barron and Hilton Hotels have been generous supporters of the event ever since". See: http://www.hiltonopen.com/History.htm It is of course clear from the evidence that neither Zamora, or anyone else, were involved in a hoax and even Phil's 'depressed area' assertions have seemingly overlooked an important aspect. Perhaps all somewhat trivia, however, further connections are, at least, remarkably so. [William] Barron Hilton became a significant competitor in hot- air balloon events and a sponsor of attempts to circumnavigate the world in a hot-air balloon. Apparently, in 1967, he also, "declared that Hilton would be the first company to put hotels in space. He even arranged with director Stanley Kubrick to make the circular, orbiting hotel in '2001: A Space Odyssey' a Hilton". There's an insightful article on this topic, at: http://www.spacefuture.com/archive/hotels_in_space.shtml Still more remarkable, Hilton is a 'Hall of Fame Abductee'! Err.. no, hang on, that should be 'Hall of Fame Inductee': http://www.soaringmuseum.org/hallfame/hofalpha.htm Perhaps, overall, there was more to circa 1964 Socorro than Philip Klass implies. It had a small airport and as recently noted on UFORL, in Prof. Charles Moore's 'Saucer Smear' contribution, he confirms the 'landing site', "was about a quarter mile or so directly off the north end of the runway at Socorro International, beneath the final approach". Astonishingly, this was a striking, potential clue which 'Project Blue Book' and Hynek et al were seemingly oblivious to. Focused on a 'metallic, rocket-propelled craft' with two crew members, it seems they were all sidetracked from a most likely origin of an indigenous, unidentified vehicle and never investigated whether any flights had departed from Socorro airport around the time of Zamora's sighting. It could, for example, simply have been a demonstration hot-air balloon flight, perhaps for an aviation enthusiast who had local business connections, was interested in buying one of those brand new devices and went along as a passenger. Speculation aside, Socorro Airport have been asked if they still have contemporary, historical records and an update on that, plus a number of general research responses from further, pioneering 1964 hot-air balloonists who have been located and contacted, will be published in the next newsletter. O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O 3. The Portage County [Ravenna], Spaur-Neff Case. Comparative with Socorro, also apparently overlooked by Quintanilla, Hynek and 'NICAP', was manifest evidence which seems to clearly reveal the probable identity of a highly publicised 'UFO', which on 17 April, 1966 was pursued for some 80 miles by local police officers. The background to this and a request for some confirmation that key evidence had actually been recognised and investigated, can be found on UFORL, at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/402 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/403 O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O 4. Kenneth Arnold and 'Little Tahoma'. Additionally addressing the question whether some founding 'UFO' cases were never solved because of primary investigative failures, incorporates the most pivotal sighting of all. It was on 24 June, 1947 that private pilot Kenneth Arnold observed what he presumed to be nine mysterious aircraft in formation. In the ensuing media hysteria, these of course came to be known as 'flying saucers', although Arnold had in fact described the objects as 'crescent-shaped'. Irrespective of whatever Arnold witnessed, the foundation of his belief that the objects were some 26 miles away is that they appeared to pass behind a distant "jagged peak". In my cover article for the August, 2000 edition of 'Fortean Times', I set out the background and explained why 'Arnold's peak' was now evidenced to be 'Little Tahoma [Tacoma]': [BEGIN] Martin Kottmeyer wrote: "In 'The Coming of the Saucers', Arnold said they momentarily disappeared 'behind a jagged peak that juts out from Mount Rainier proper.' In his memoir for the First International UFO Congress, Arnold says, 'When they turned length-wise or flat-wise to me they were very thin and they actually disappeared from sight behind a projection on Mount Rainier in the snowfield'. These are not exactly the same thing, but they give a fair indication of what to look for on the geological survey maps." Kottmeyer continues: "Arnold estimated the crafts were at an altitude of 9,200 feet plus or minus 1,000. The task at hand is thus to locate some feature extending above the 8,200 foot level. This yields a neat little surprise. There are no such peaks between Mount Rainier and Mount Adams. The closest thing I could find was Pyramid Peak, which stands only 6,937 feet tall in front of Mount Rainier's base. There is a sharp little projection called Little Tacoma which sticks out around the 10,000 foot level, but it is on the wrong side of the mountain to be seen from Arnold's flight path. It would be badly stretching things to suggest he got either his position or altitude that far wrong." {END OF KOTTMEYER EXTRACT} In an attempt to clarify this geographical conundrum, I again took the query to people with good local knowledge. David Basset, a mountaineer with vast experience of Mt. Rainier and surrounding peaks, responded: "The jagged peak you are referring to is clearly Little Tahoma. It is jagged because it is unglaciated and very steep. It rises from the base of Mt. Rainier on the East or Southeast side. You said the observation was taken from the west or southwest. This might be troubling because it is on the other side of the mountain, but rest assured, Little Tahoma is the peak. It stands out, being much higher than any other mountain close to Rainier." Located at Mt. Rainier National Park, Park Guide Chris Trotter, and Douglas Kraus, the Park Naturalist, confirmed: "The consensus from my co-workers is that the 'jagged peak' is Little Tahoma. This peak can be seen from many areas around the mountain." It looks likely that Little Tahoma (or Tacoma) is the only peak which matches Arnold's description and it could have been visible from his location. If we accept this, there are fundamental repercussions. Arnold relied on the apparent, momentary disappearance of the objects behind a far-off peak to establish the objects' distance and consequently their airspeed. Arnold, flying more or less eastwards towards Mt. Rainier's slopes, consistently and repeatedly told how the nine objects, travelling southwards, passed directly in front of him on the western slopes of Mt. Rainier. Little Tahoma, however is on the mountain's far eastern side. The obvious conclusion is that Arnold misperceived how those nine objects momentarily disappeared behind this remote peak. In fact, they absolutely must have passed in front of it. Commenting on the unreliability of perceptions of perspective, Kottmeyer wrote: "Normally one prefers early accounts to later ones, but the Congress memoir may provide the clue to what happened here. When the object turned flatwise, the optical thickness likely dropped below the one half minute resolution limit and briefly dropped from sight. The rough surface of the mountain provided opportunities for an illusory correlation of the disappearance to some feature of the mountain. The disappearance seemed to be caused by an intervening feature where none in fact existed. With no firm lower distance estimate, the way is opened for the objects being closer to Arnold than he had surmised." [END OF 'FORTEAN TIMES' EXTRACT] To my knowledge, although well over a year has elapsed, in that intervening period no-one has offered any factual rebuttal to the identification of Arnold's peak as 'Little Tahoma'. The question I would now ask is whether we might actually have historical documented evidence which establishes 'Little Tahoma' as conclusively, 'Arnold's peak'. If so, then Arnold's critical perception of the object's distance and consequently their size and speed are further, demonstrably, fallacious. There is key evidence, which I don't believe has previously been highlighted in this context and it originates from several sources, spanning many years. Extracting relevant data in sequence we have: "Mr. Arnold reported he was flying east at 2:50 p.m. Tuesday toward Mt. Rainier when the objects appeared directly in front of him 25-30 miles away at about 10,000 feet altitude". "Mr. Arnold, who flies 60 to 100 hours monthly throughout five western states, said he was 25-30 miles west of Mt. Rainier, en route from Chehalis to Yakima, when he sighted the objects". "He said he could estimate the distance of the objects better because an intervening peak once blocked his view of them. He found the peak was 25 miles away, he related". "Mr. Arnold was flying a three-passenger, single-engined plane at 9200 feet at the time, he reported". Source: 'Pendleton, Oregon East Oregonian' - June 26, 1947 "I was approximately 25 to 28 miles from Mt. Rainier...". [Arnold doesn't mention the 'peak' in this interview - Editor] Source: Radio Interview with KWRC, June 26, 1947 "I observed them quite plainly, and I estimate my distance from them, which was almost at right angles, to be between twenty to twenty-five miles. I knew they must be very large to observe their shape at that distance...". [Arnold doesn't mention the 'peak' in this letter - Editor] Source: Letter to the Air Force, 1947 "I determined my distance from their pathway to be in the vicinity of twenty-three miles because I knew where I was and they revealed their true position by disappearing from my sight momentarily behind a jagged peak that juts out from the base of Mount Rainier proper. Considering that I was flying all this time in the direction of their formation, this determination can be only approximately, but it is not too far off". Source: 'The Coming of the Saucers', 1952 "And actually they disappeared behind a sharp projection on Mt. Rainier in the snow field to my eyesight and since I knew approximately where I was, flying of course toward the mountain, I knew where they had passed. I thought my judgement and my clocking could be within reasonable limits as to about how fast they were going". Source: Lecture at 'UFO Congress', 1977 In summary [use a fixed font, such as Courier]: Miles distant (where stated) ~ Mt Rainier ~ Peak ~ Newspaper 25-30 25 Radio 25-28 Letter 20-25 [to objects] Book 23 Lecture We can see that the peak is always placed at approximately the same distance as Mt Rainier. This would be consistent with Little Tahoma. Furthermore, as Kottmeyer deduced, "Arnold estimated the crafts were at an altitude of 9,200 feet plus or minus 1,000. The task at hand is thus to locate some feature extending above the 8,200 foot level. This yields a neat little surprise. There are no such peaks between Mount Rainier and Mount Adams. The closest thing I could find was Pyramid Peak, which stands only 6,937 feet tall in front of Mount Rainier's base. There is a sharp little projection called Little Tacoma which sticks out around the 10,000 foot level, but it is on the wrong side of the mountain to be seen from Arnold's flight path. It would be badly stretching things to suggest he got either his position or altitude that far wrong." Yet, the evidence seems to indicate otherwise and as noted, Little Tahoma could seemingly have been visible to Arnold. There's a helpful, online, photograph which illustrates this: http://mt.rainier.tribnet.com/photogallery/detail.asp?id=29 It's taken from close to Arnold's approximate position, south- west of Mt. Rainier, at the time of his sighting, although perhaps much nearer to Mt. Rainer than Arnold's stated 25ish miles. That sharp projection visible to the right of Mt. Rainier is Little Tahoma. Additionally, there were some significant insights revealed on the original UFORL list [then hosted by ListBot], dating from circa February 2000 - before my published findings in 'Fortean Times'. As it was a 'closed' list, I won't reveal the identity of subscribers who highlighted the following and trust they would have no objection that raw data is once more addressed: "Kottmeyer is flat wrong about Little Tahoma peak supposedly not being visible from Arnold's position. I have the topographic maps and it clearly is visible from the town of Mineral and several miles eastward. The Little Tahoma is clearly the peak jutting out from Rainier that Arnold saw the objects fly behind. Arnold stressed that the objects were at about his level when they passed Rainier. He also said that the 'plateau' he had been searching to find the remains of the downed C-46 was at around this 9,000-10,000-foot level and that is the 'plateau' from which the peak jutted out and which the objects flew behind. He emphasized that the objects were within about 1,000 feet of his 9,500-foot altitude level when they passed Rainier and he specifically mentions the objects were at 10,000 feet in his earlier interviews. Since he had minutes earlier combed this altitude level of Rainier he certainly was familiar with that terrain". "Little Tahoma Peak, 11,138 ft, is clearly marked on my USGS topo maps, the 7.5-minute Mt. Rainier East quadrangle, and the 15-minute Mt. Rainier quadrangle. According to the online USGS Geographic Names Information System it is located at 46-50-59 N, 121-42-40 W. Again, let me reiterate that Kottmeyer is wrong in saying Little Tahoma was not visible from Arnold's position". "Arnold insisted that the objects maintained a 'constant' heading or 'definite direction of about 170 degrees' at about 'right angles' to his own eastward heading towards Yakima when the objects were in the vicinity of Mt. Rainier and beyond. This is not consistent with circling around the front of Mt. Rainier which requires a very discrepant 120-deg heading in order to reach Goat Ridge and destroys the 170-deg heading from there onward!". "[James] McDonald suggested to Arnold in Nov 1966 a peak on the SW slope of Rainier and went through several possibilities by mail and over the phone, namely Pyramid Peak (6937 ft), Crystal Mtn. (6306 ft), and Iron Mtn. (6283 ft), but rejected them all because they were too low. Arnold was not sure it was on the SW slope either, only that it 'probably' was. McDonald suggested lower altitudes to Arnold but apparently Arnold didn't agree and McDonald summarized the data later as the objects flying at 9,000 feet and CLIMBING still higher to 13,000 feet -- a new detail from Arnold never before pinned down (climbing was briefly mentioned before by Arnold, but clashed with other statements of constant elevation which McDonald mentioned to him)". "Arnold was not sure it was on the SW slope either, only that it 'probably' was"? Is this startling claim documented somewhere? Overall, the evidence seems to comprehensively confirm that 'Arnold's peak', which was so critical to his perception of those nine, 'fluttering and gliding', undulating in ribbon-like formation objects as being distant, large and consequently travelling at unprecedented speed, was almost certainly Little Tahoma. To reiterate, from that 'Fortean Times' article: "Arnold, flying more or less eastwards towards Mt. Rainier's slopes, consistently and repeatedly told how the nine objects, travelling southwards, passed directly in front of him on the western slopes of Mt. Rainier. Little Tahoma, however is on the mountain's far eastern side. The obvious conclusion is that Arnold misperceived how those nine objects momentarily disappeared behind this remote peak. In fact, they absolutely must have passed in front of it". If the genesis of 'ufology' isn't in fact based on such a [proverbial] specious foundation, then how is the cited evidence countered? Incidentally, following the 'Fortean Times' article, I uncovered a sketch, seemingly drawn by Arnold himself (and similar to others he is known to have made) - see: http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/saucers.htm I still remain unable to locate the original source of this bird- like depiction and would be grateful if anyone can assist. O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O 5. 'The Sky at Night'. Shortly celebrating its 45th televised anniversary, 'The Sky at Night' has during that time been the UK's mainstay astronomy program, hosted by renowned astronomer, Sir Patrick Moore. Perhaps surprisingly, it was considered necessary that such patently ludicrous, 'NASA faked the Moon landings' allegations required the latest broadcast should be entirely dedicated to debunk those claims. However, it was an issue which was consummately addressed and Patrick, statedly playing the role of 'Devil's advocate', asked how many of the supposed 'anomalies' could be explained. The answers were given by Douglas Arnold, who is noted on 'The 'Sky at Night' website to be an 'Apollo photographic expert': http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/spaceguide/skyatnight/ UK readers who missed the program, can watch a repeat on Saturday, 6 April. It's well worth seeing and as Douglas Arnold concludes, these farcical conspiracy charges, so much beloved of 'ufology' and heavily promoted in the UK by 'UFO Magazine', simply "demean" our extraordinary space exploration achievements. They furthermore, utterly demean 'ufology'. O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O 6. Photographic Evidence of 'Black aircraft?'? John Hanson writes: "This is a 100 per cent genuine photograph taken by Dawn Holloway over Barmouth in Wales a few years ago, the damage to the negative was caused through loading improperly....... Dawn did not see the two 'darts' when taking the photograph". For information, I have uploaded a copy of the hi-res scanned photograph [481k] John kindly sent, to: http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/ftp/blckdart.jpg Interesting, although definitely in the category, 'make of it what you will'! O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O 7. The UFO Research List. The 'UFO Research List' [UFORL] has over 135 members and is open to subscription from those who advocate and adopt a consistent, scientific appraisal of purported 'UFO' related evidence. The remit encompasses associated topics which may be relevant, such as 'black projects', or 'ball lightning', etc. The moderated list's 'home page' is at URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/ This provides access to the public list postings. For subscription requests, please send a blank e-mail to: UFORL-subscribe@yahoogroups.com O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O Editor: James Easton E-mail: editor@voyagermag.com www.ufoworld.co.uk (c) James Easton April, 2002 This newsletter may be freely distributed provided the above information and copyright notice are included.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Secrecy News -- 04/05/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 14:45:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 07:36:34 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/05/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 28 April 5, 2002 ** ACCESS TO HISTORICAL MAPS DENIED AT ARCHIVES ** DECLASSIFICATION SPENDING REPORT MAY BE ELIMINATED ** WEBSTER COMMISSION REPORT ON FBI SECURITY PRACTICES ACCESS TO HISTORICAL MAPS DENIED AT ARCHIVES A researcher working on a mine-clearing project in Africa recently went to the National Archives to review an old map of the region where he is working. He was told that the map, produced by the now-defunct Army Map Service in the 1960s, could no longer be made publicly available, upon the instructions of the National Imagery and Mapping Agency (NIMA). The researcher, who preferred not to be named, told Secrecy News that he was distressed by the new barriers to access and said they will set back the progress of his demining project. Until recently, he said, there had been no difficulty in obtaining the maps he needed. "Before, it was just a question of asking for them, and it was easy, and it was great," he said. One can still ask, but it is no longer easy or great. Strictly speaking, said Paul Polk of NIMA public affairs, there has been "no change in policy" regarding access to the historical maps, only more careful implementation of the existing guidelines by both the National Archives and the Library of Congress. It has long been government policy, Mr. Polk explained, that small scale maps (1:500,000 or smaller) are generally made available to the public, medium scale maps (around 1:250,000) sometimes are made available, and large scale maps (defined as greater than 1:250,000) generally are not made available to the public. "Large scale maps are usually restricted from public use because they give the U.S. military an operational advantage if they are not made widely available," Mr. Polk said. In the past, NIMA recently discovered, the National Archives was improperly granting public access to such unreleased maps, he said. That is no longer the case. "You can always request access to particular maps, and we'll consider such requests," he said, noting that a number of large- scale maps are in fact available at the Archives. However, the Africa researcher observed that the Defense Mapping Agency map index that ws formerly available in the Archives Reading Room is no longer there, making it harder to formulate specific requests. The new access limitations on historical maps only coincidentally followed September 11, Mr. Polk said, and are not a consequence of heightened security. The only ongoing change in NIMA access policy that is attributable to September 11 is the withholding of Military Installation Maps that portray the restricted areas at certain U.S. military facilities. DECLASSIFICATION SPENDING REPORT MAY BE ELIMINATED The Pentagon is asking Congress to eliminate the requirement to submit an annual report on spending for declassification of historical records. The reporting requirement was enacted in 1999 as part of an effort by the Republican Congress, which was unsympathetic to the Clinton Administration's ambitious declassification program, to curtail anticipated spending for that program. For the same reason, declassification spending caps were also imposed in FY 2000 and 2001. But the "threat" of runaway declassification has passed in the Bush Administration, and a cap on declassification spending was not enacted in FY 2002. The reporting requirement "serves no further purpose and is unnecessary," the Defense Department General Counsel wrote in an April 1 legislative proposal submitted to Congress. Excerpts from the legislative proposal, first reported by Inside the Pentagon, are posted here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/04/dod040102.html WEBSTER COMMISSION REPORT ON FBI SECURITY PRACTICES The security culture at the Federal Bureau of Investigation was roundly criticized in a new Commission report released yesterday. The report notably cited the indiscriminate circulation of classified information collected through counterintelligence (FISA) wiretaps: "Highly classified information has been made available to a range of bureau personnel far broader than those who need to know it." The report, which also provides some new details on the Robert Hanssen espionage case, was authored by a Commission led by former FBI (and CIA) Director William H. Webster. It offers dozens of recommendations on various aspects of security policy, ranging from personnel security and document security to polygraph policy. The text of the report, entitled "A Review of FBI Security Programs," is posted here: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/websterreport.html ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Travis Walton Case Files? From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:12:18 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 07:40:17 -0500 Subject: Travis Walton Case Files? I need help from the list. I am looking for any researcher that has a copy of the original case file to the Travis Walton abduction from the Navajo County Sheriff's office. Jerome do you have it? If so, can you contact me off-List? Jim Kelly Azredant@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: Voyager Newsletter No. 21 - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:02:18 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 09:56:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Voyager Newsletter No. 21 - Gates >From: James Easton <voyager@ufoworld.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Voyager Newsletter No. 21 >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:09:03 +0100 <snip> >1. 'Alien Autopsy': The Origin Revealed? <snip> >'Don's FANTASIA Diary 7-26-2001' >"Because of the dinner, we all skipped the 7:45pm showing of >FUCCON FAMILY (it's playing again later) and went to Club 300 to >keep getting tanked on more beer. About a half hour after we sat >down, Olaf Ittenbach, director of tonight's LEGION OF THE DEAD >joined us for a few pitchers. The beer kept on pouring and we >had a good time. We had to get Olaf completely plastered to get >ready for his film's premiere, of course! I found out that, a >few years ago, some wacko actually held everyone hostage at Club >300 and finally shot himself. It's a great place to drink! Also, >this might be of interest to some... remember the 'Alien >Autopsy' craze a few years ago? Remember the Fox special that >actually interviewed Nacho Cerda about the similarities between >his film AFTERMATH and the 'autopsy' video? Well, here is a >surprise. Olaf admitted (I guess he can now that the contact he >had was so old) that HE was the one who helped create that damn >video! The truth is revealed! >He went into great detail about how they faked the film stock, >etc. and said that he did it because they paid him a LOT of >money to do it. So, there you have it, folks! Olaf Ittenbach, >director or PREMUTOS and LEGION OF THE DEAD is the bad boy >behind that controversy. As I have pointed out before we have a fuzzy story based upon recollections of a story told at a pub while the participants were wasted or getting wasted. My question is simply this. How much credibility would skeptics put in a pro Roswell, or pro Soccorro, or any other "pro" ufo story if they found out that when the story was told the participants were drunk and or swilling pitchers of beer at some bar. We know the answer is zip, zero, nada. But I am still interested in hearing the skeptics defend using a story told while people were drunk, or getting drunk. I am listening... but suspect I won't get an answer while the skeptics move on to something else. :) Hmm, I wonder if this could be called drunken pelicanisms? Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 New UFO Book Reviews From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:08:46 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 09:57:47 -0500 Subject: New UFO Book Reviews I've added several new reviews/links to the UFO Book Reviews page: http://mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html More are forthcoming. Recommendations? Let me know! --Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:44:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:04:06 -0500 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille <snip> >Although I get the feeling of a slight difference (is it only >me?): in North America there doesn't seem to be any new stuff >going around in ufology. Hello Serge, I'm not exactly sure about your observation. Just off the top of my head I can think of: 1. Fran Ridge's excellent work on the NICAP site. 2. Tony Rullan's excellent work on UFO odor analysis, etc. 3. Barry Greenwood's excellent work in historical perspectives 4. Jan Aldrich's excellent work on P-47 bringing in new information 5. Tom Tulien's excellent work in getting oral histories that have been long neglected 6. Joel Carpenter's excellent work on Cold War issues directly concerned with the field of Ufology 7. SHG members excellent, but unsung heros, work of preservation for the generation of researchers to come 8. Loren Gross's excellent work (a real shame very few know of him) on chronological historical Ufology 9. Dennis Balthaser's excellent work on Roswell 10. Lucius Farish's excellent work on preserving and distribution of ufological news clippings 11. Jim Klotz's excellent work on maintaining documents on line 12. Jerry Clark's excellent work on all manner of ufological errata, etc. 13. Carl Fiendt's excellent work on submersable UFOs 14. Keith Chester's excellent work on Foo Fighters Well, I could continue for quite awhile. Unfortunately for many on this List, some of the names may not be familiar and that's really a shame. There are many fine researchers bringing forth new information all the time, but much of what is new is being lost in List noise. True research is done by digging. It is not accomplished by opinions expressed on UFO email Lists. UFO Lists provide a method of learning what is new and what was and how they relate. For those who are young and members of the List, they have yet to become seasoned enough to know that what came before is more important than what is happening on the UFO scene at the present time. For you cannot understand the now without having a good grasp on what was in matters ufological. Ufology is an evolving field of study. The past directly relates to the present. There are some who advocate that Ufology is in trouble. In some ways it definitely seems to be. But if one looks beyond the noise of the Lists they will quickly learn that new information is arriving on a daily basis, more than can be posted or even shared in many respects. As an example, we have learned more about ghost rockets in the last two years than in the previous 52+ years, ditto how the projects SIGN, GRUDGE and Blue Book worked, etc. Granted, most of the new information isn't classy or earth shattering stuff, but those little tidbits helps bring clearity and focus to a field of study. There are those, for example, who belittle the Roswell incident and claim that it's a dead end endeavor. Imagine if the same concept was applied to other scientific endeavors such as archeology. Nobody would have had the guts to continue research and ended up giving the world the actual city of Troy...a place thought only to exist in the fertile imagination of Homer. Beware the nay'sayer, skeptic, debunker and Pelicanist. They are much like Satan who robs the will to look beyond and explore by lulling to complacency or whispering that what you do is a waste of time and effort because you are always wrong. The gold is still out there. You just gotta have the guts to get outta the armchair and start digging. You want to know the answers? You gotta be dedicated enough to continue to look when everyone else is trying to distract you and wear you down telling you it's a waste of time. Yep, it would be exciting to get ones hands on an actual downed alien craft, but real researchers get just as excited when a photo is finally located of a name that has been bantied around in the literature for 54+ years or an audio record of a person, etc. Nothing new in Ufology? Really? How many of you know that the GRUDGE Report was edited before it was released and that the full report sits on my shelf? Not many I'm willing to guess. Or that Estimate of the Situation guidelines exist? How about the fact that James Moseley at one time tried to take over NICAP? That in 1961 Dr. Hynek supposedly had a piece of saucer debris from a downed disc in Texas? Didn't think so...so you see, there are new things coming to light in Ufology all the time, but they don't come to the armchair researcher, now do they? <G> Anyway, for what it's worth and I'm not really sure it's worth much on email Lists. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 00:28:10 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:07:19 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Hatch >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST >Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? >One of my favourite sayings (which I have copyrighted) is: >"Don't believe believers, and be skeptical of skeptics." My >focus today is on the latter, particularly concerning a new book >by a popular skeptic, Phil Plait. >Plait's articles in the past have been very enlightening and >right on in terms of correcting some misconceptions about space >and astronomy. He was one of the loudest opponents of the Hale- >Bopp "spaceship" fiasco (and rightly so; he has some choice >words for Chuck Shramek, Ed Dames, et al.). He may go a bit far >in his criticisms of astronomy as portrayed in Star Trek, since >I think most people realize it's just a fictional TV show, but >then again, I have met some really wide-eyed trekkers. <snip> >This approach by Plait to the UFO phenomenon made me pause to >consider how well he has researched and considered the other >topics in his book. Is his book Bad Astronomy exactly that - >bad? Hello Chris: I really liked Phil Plait's site and writing about the "faked moon landing" and so forth. Somebody at work (who should know better) bought into the "faked moon landing" TV presentation hook line and sinker. I recommended http://www.badastronomy.com by name .. easy to remember. I haven't read Plait's passages on UFOs, and will simply take your assessment as is. It sounds like a nice case of circular reasoning. I have no argument with seemingly strange objects that turn out to be ducks, even pelicans at times _provided_ they do what birds can do and not what they cannot. Same goes for all sorts of misidentified balloons, aircraft etc etc .. all of which make me _very_ selective about the reports I catalog. To argue however, that these obvious canards explain everything, would be very faulty reasoning in anyone's logic class. I hope that Plait does not that _that_ position. Best wishes - Larry Hatch PS: Canard is 'duck' in French! Neat. I hadn't intended that, must be the wine.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Velez From: John <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:48:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:10:00 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Velez >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST >Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? >One of my favourite sayings (which I have copyrighted) is: >"Don't believe believers, and be skeptical of skeptics." My >focus today is on the latter, particularly concerning a new book >by a popular skeptic, Phil Plait. >Plait's articles in the past have been very enlightening and >right on in terms of correcting some misconceptions about space >and astronomy. He was one of the loudest opponents of the Hale- >Bopp "spaceship" fiasco (and rightly so; he has some choice >words for Chuck Shramek, Ed Dames, et al.). He may go a bit far >in his criticisms of astronomy as portrayed in Star Trek, since >I think most people realize it's just a fictional TV show, but >then again, I have met some really wide-eyed trekkers. <snip> Hi Chris, I am an amateur astronomer. Although it's been quite some time since I have been 'active' I am also an experienced (UFO seeing) sky observer. Your post reminded me of a conversation I overheard at the last Star Party I attended. At the time (mid-eighties) I was in the market for a new scope. Roger W. Tuthill a well-known astronomical equipment retailer was sponsoring the party at Princeton University in New Jersey. Star parties are the best places to get a 'hands-on' feel for different makes and models of hardware and to rap with the folks who own them and who use the equipment regularly. Gathered around somebody's homemade reflector on this particular occasion were about five or six individuals (who I did not know) and they were having an animated discussion about UFOs. Sorry, I don't recall the details of the conversation other than the subject _was_ UFOs. Amateurs may not report their sightings directly to Plait... but they sure as hell discuss the subject with each other! ;) BTW, not that I can't be fooled or mistaken, but after 30 + years of sky-watching I am familiar with the (normal) contents of the sky. Day and night. The UFOs I have observed and recorded on film and video over the years are _not_ 'ducks', stars, airplanes, Pelicans, party balloons, or blimps. I wouldn't waste my (or anybody else's) time or the film recording or reporting overflights of ducks. When I report a "UFO" it's because that is what it is. (Unidentified/unidentifiable.) Regards, John Velez quack-quack Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 To Bravely Go Back When No One Has Gone Back Before From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 02:04:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:15:16 -0500 Subject: To Bravely Go Back When No One Has Gone Back Before Source: The Boston Globe http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/095/metro/Professor_s_time_travel_idea_fir= es_up_the_imagination+.shtml Professor's time travel idea fires up the imagination By David Abel, Globe Staff, 4/5/2002 Ronald Mallett, a physicist at the University of Connecticut, believes he knows how to build a time machine - an actual device that could send something or someone from the future to the past, or vice versa. He's not joking. Unlike other physicists who have pondered the science of time travel, the 57-year-old professor has devised a machine he believes could transport anything from an atom to a person from one time to another. "I'm not a nut. ...I hope to have a working mockup and start experiments this fall," says Mallett, who will detail his ideas about time travel tonight at Boston's Museum of Science. "I would think I was a crackpot, too, if there weren't other colleagues I knew who were working on it. This isn't Ron Mallett's theory of matter; it's Einstein's theory of relativity. I'm not pulling things out of the known laws of physics." But Alan Guth, a physics professor at MIT who has studied the theory of time machines, says he isn't sure it's even theoretically possible to travel through time. As far as whether time travel is a possibility, he says: "Definitely not within our lifetimes." Another physicist, Stanley Deser, a professor at Brandeis University who recently co-authored a paper titled "Time Travel?," says the problem is not the physics, it's the feasibility of making time travel work. "This is about trying to amass all the matter of the universe in a very small region," he says. "Good luck." After 27 years at UConn, Mallett has the confidence of his boss, William Stwalley, chairman of the university's physics department. "His ideas certainly have merit," Stwalley says. "I think some of his ideas are very interesting and they would make nice tests of general relativity." Mallett's plan doesn't require some sort of sleigh, the means of transport in H.G. Wells's "The Time Machine," or reaching 88 miles per hour in a flying DeLorean as in the movie "Back to the Future." His time machine merely uses a ring of light. According to Einstein's theory of gravity, anything that has mass or energy distorts the space and the passage of time around it, like a bowling ball dropped on a trampoline. Circulating laser beams in the right way, by slowing them down and shooting them through anything from fiber-optic cable to special crystals, might create a similar distortion that could theoretically transport someone through different times, Mallett believes. The professor and his UConn colleagues plan to build a device to test whether it's possible to transport a subatomic particle, probably a neutron, through time. The energy from a rotating laser beam, Mallett hopes, would warp the space inside the ring of the light so that gravity forces the neutron to rotate sideways. With even more energy, it's possible, he believes, a second neutron would appear. The second particle would be the first one visiting itself from the future. While Mallett acknowledges that sending a person through time may require more energy than physicists today know how to harness, he sees it merely as "an engineering problem." If it's possible to use light to send a neutron through time, a feat that doesn't require as much energy as sending a human, he believes it wouldn't be long before engineers figure out a way to send a person. "What we're talking about is at the edge of current technology, not beyond current technology," he says. Since his father, a heavy smoker, died at the age of 33 when Mallett was 10 years old, Mallett has longed for a way to travel back in time to warn him about the dangers of cigarettes. For most of his career, however, Mallett kept secret that his desire for time travel had drawn him to become a physicist. It wasn't until a few years ago, when he began researching a book on the topic, that he arrived at his idea of how to build a time machine. If his idea pans out, won't there be a host of potential paradoxes, such as time travelers killing their parents and making it impossible for them to exist? No, he says, explaining that those travelers would continue to exist in a "parallel universe." And what about the ethics of changing history? There would be government laws to control time travel, he believes. "Any technology has a potential nefarious side to it," he says. "But I don't think there's a way to stop it. We as a species have always reached out. We've been doing that since the caves. I say let's make it so that we better reality. I think we can bravely do that." David Abel can be reached at dabel@globe.com. This story ran on page B1 of the Boston Globe on 4/5/2002. =A9 Copyright 2002 Globe Newspaper Company.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: To Bravely Go Back ... - Mortellaro From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:49:52 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:32:47 -0500 Subject: Re: To Bravely Go Back ... - Mortellaro >Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 02:04:07 -0500 >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: To Bravely Go Back When No One Has Gone Back Before >Source: The Boston Globe >http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/095/metro/Professor_s_time_travel_idea_fir >es_up_the_imagination+.shtml >Professor's time travel idea fires up the imagination >By David Abel, Globe Staff, 4/5/2002 >Ronald Mallett, a physicist at the University of Connecticut, believes >he knows how to build a time machine - an actual device that could send >something or someone from the future to the past, or vice versa. >He's not joking. >Unlike other physicists who have pondered the science of time travel, >the 57-year-old professor has devised a machine he believes could >transport anything from an atom to a person from one time to another. >"I'm not a nut. ...I hope to have a working mockup and start >experiments this fall," says Mallett, who will detail his ideas >about time travel tonight at Boston's Museum of Science. "I >would think I was a crackpot, too, if there weren't other >colleagues I knew who were working on it. This isn't Ron >Mallett's theory of matter; it's Einstein's theory of >relativity. I'm not pulling things out of the known laws of >physics." <snip> Dear Kelley, Listers and Errol, The implications of time travel are enormous, which is so stupidly obvious as to make even me ill. But one of the issues which prevail in this mind is the UFO abduction phenom. There are some who think that if it exists, it may be a dimensional or time visitation. I adhere to no theories except the one which says, "I don't know what it is but I sure remember it happening to me!" <snip> >And what about the ethics of changing history? >There would be government laws to control time travel, >he believes. Wow. Now we can feel safe and secure. If such a thing as time travel is possible, and if such a machine can achieve time travel, then what odds does anyone on this list give for the government _not_ owning it? Do I hear one zillion to one? Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Alfred's Odd Observation #13 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:05:32 +0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:35:42 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Observation #13 Alfred=92s Odd Observation #13 (Wednesday - April 3, 2002) On the fifth day of UpDates' hiatus, and besieged by copious amounts of unrequited Chinese porn advertisements (among spams of lesser quality), I am on "Pacific Time" at present and physically sick as a freaking dog. Miserably, I fight waves of nausea as I key these words. It is likely the fault of something I picked up on the plane-ride out to California or just the result of being in one of those positions in your life when you are standing on the lip of oblivion with another and confronting a suddenly very real and insistent sense of personal mortality. Still, _they_ fly. I would of necessity blow off an insignificant summary of sightings (a mere prosaic report on the non-prosaic?) given my prevailing personal considerations, but this morning=92s multiple sighting was so noteworthy I=92m compelled to get on it right away, regardless. I had _six_ separate sightings of these "aerial peculiarities" this morning between 04:20 and 04:50, and all centered on the 96007 zip-code of my mother=92s home. Make of it what you will. Each moved at speeds dissimilar to the others. Each had a unique appearance with regard to color and magnitude and the variance of those things. Each (save one) was at least as bright as a star of zero magnitude. Each varied track as they progressed across a very bright star field, forgetting that the equally eminent waning moon (low in elevation to the south) detracted somewhat from the quality of the sky=92s "North California" clarity. Finally, each of them raised the hair on the back of my neck despite my nagging illness, an aching head, and the seriousness of my personal situation... All in all a puzzling collection of peculiar crawling lights NOT explained by reference to NASA's "J-Pass", fellow travelers... not to put too fine a point on it. To the details... The first light blinked on one degree to the right of Arcturus (the guard of the great bear), in auspicious serendipity, as I was _watching_ that star, and progressed to the south-east, briskly, at a speed of one degree a second. It 'meandered' slightly to and fro (up and down?) on that track and was an unwavering "cream" color as bright as brightest Sirius. After it traveled about 50 degrees, it blinked out. So it began. The second light, first noticed as it shambled through the Great Bear, headed generally South-southeast, was slightly brighter and whiter than the first sighting, and almost slowed to a stop, directly overhead, before continuing on! At its fastest, it traveled about one degree every three seconds, but its speed wavered from dead slow (one degree in five or six seconds) to the aforementioned, predominate, speed. It traveled about 60 degrees before it dimmed to a point where it could no longer be seen. This sighting occurred at 04:25. I was back from refilling my coffee cup about 04:35 when I noticed the third light, a bright and unwavering white 'blanch' as brilliantly challenging as Jupiter directly overhead, heading West south-west on an unwavering track, and travelling at a speed of one degree in two seconds. Abruptly, _another_ silent orb blinked on about five degrees to the right (north) of the initial light! The newly appearing light paralleled the speed and track of the preceding light for about fifteen seconds, then (have I mentioned the dead quiet of this North California morning?) it astonishingly slowed (perhaps the lead object sped up?), and fell into a 'following' position in direct trail... They continued in this fashion until they both disappeared in the west about 30 degrees elevation. The sighting would have fluttered even Phil Klass=92 ufological putter -- gay-roan-teed! The fifth light appeared at 04:40 as strident as an insulted Venus (just below Polaris), steamed along at a steady degree a second, and sailed, grandly imperious, on a track of due south until it got too dim to see. It blinked off, oddly, as it traveled in a very regular manner (for about five seconds) and reappeared where it would be predicted to appear by any, remotely trained, observer. This signifies the regularity of its flight (about 90 degrees total) while doing _nothing_ to underline the oddness of the too, too long blink. It performed this weird blinking regularity three times. The hue of the object was a rich cream color. Field glasses, incidentally, yielded orbs in _all_ cases, already mentioned on this report iteration and yet to be mentioned... not light points of focused stars in the star field back-dropping these objects... orbs. The final sighting of the morning (at 04:50) was a dim Tinkerbell=92s dash of abrupt reddish quickness, about a magnitude of two, and was first noticed in the belly of the great bear on an azimuth of about 350 degrees and 45 degrees elevation while shooting easterly at a speed of three or four degrees a second. It moved too quickly to get my glasses on it and feeling already quite well served with regard to the morning=92s cornucopia of sightings, I didn=92t even try=85 Summation: In the real world, if one "looks" (?), one "sees." It _was_ quite a morning for 'satellite' observation, fellow motes, _forgetting_ that these objects were off the prediction schedule of NASA's "J-Pass", _overlooking_ their described wavering magnitudes of speed, color, and direction, additionally _dismissing_ that they were flying in apparent formation (on line through echelon right to trail, in at least one case...) ...Quite an invigorating morning, indeed... ...Wait a minute... ...Something has a more clever dominion of these clear California skies than we have, and that dominion is well off the beaten path of accepted mainstream experience... if one but takes the time to look up, reader! Regardless, I can appreciate that one is hard pressed to find the time for such apparently fruitless activity. Though, how "fruitless" is the activity, really? The activity is actually _gravid_ with fruit! Not so astonishingly, the individual is best _served_ by perception of a larger reality! Our 21st century potentials of limitless clean power and unending efficacious life are testament to the realized perception of those 'larger' realities. We live the lives of gods (_if_ a sub-lower case "g"), many of us (many that live in the first and second worlds anyway), to even the elite human beings (High Priests and Kings) of just a few hundred years ago - truly. We owe our boon of usefully expansive human experience to our courageous (individual) embrace of that very real larger reality - a reality presently (and very suspiciously) denied by the conflicted mainstream. That larger reality is, of necessity, outside the bounds of official comfort, external to the box of 'accepted' conjecture, and beyond the limit of an officious status quo. It always has been. Nevertheless, just as always, one finds it necessary to move beyond the barriers, establish new frontiers - set new limits. Such is growth. Besides, who is _best_ served by adherence to the limitations of these suffocating comforts, convenient conjectures, and stunted status quos? Who profits as the reader is distracted from the larger reality, actually in existence, by a well-orchestrated and contrived threat to personal survival, comfort, and happiness? Not the harried reader, I would bet, borrowing against Peter to pay the ominous Paul, and actually sacrificing health and family to _provide_ for suffering same, in many cases... as a function of the "trusted" cultural mechanism, ironically. ...But look up, good reader (on an abundance of different levels!), in an attempt to see these things that I describe (?), and the reader _shall_ see these things, be reassured that there _is_ a larger reality, and that that reality points to greater self worth, greater self respect, and greater self awareness than an individual has generally been privy to in all of recorded history! Yes! Out of these greater advances come self actualization, great personal satisfaction, and positive individual contribution _beyond_ the jealous boundaries of the 'accepted' cultural box - - because stronger individuals are able to make ever greater contributions to the grander cultural team! Additionally, this continues _unabated_ as long as there is hope for synergy, or the elevating results of the strength and power always found beyond the sum of ones modest, though _deceptively_ nonessential parts... Individuals, understand, _transcend_ the essential! Individuals _decide_ the essential. Individuals _create_ the essential! "Nothing or nobody" has power but that it has a pack of passionate _individuals_ behind it. "Nothing or nobody..." Ominously - this includes that deity of _any_ case, likely, merely an idea manufactured by the powerful to do the powerful=92s bidding. The individual is always key. There is no God without the worshiper... ...Still, -something- flies, while my Mom, asleep on her bed behind me, seems to be doing a little better today... But - that=92s enough. I=92ll be watching California skies until further notice. I expect to get an eye-full. And as I can appreciate that the harried reader is hard pressed to find the necessary time to do the arduous watching (?), I=92ll gladly watch for both of us. It=92s my job. Read on! ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:40:04 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:36:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:48:23 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:52:21 -0600 >>>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:09:53 +0000 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman John, John, >Jerry, you are the master of avoidance, in that you have >concentrated on one paragraph in the Pelican's piece, and >totally avoided addressing the rest of his argument. I find this >particularly surprising in that, if you do ever get round to >reading it, you might find that the Pelican's views on John Keel >are not entirely dissimilar to your own. I have no doubt that the Pelican and I see John Keel very much the same way. It's not the P's intelligence or rationality that I have problems with, it's his honesty. I also have trouble, by the way, with your continuing effort to change the subject rather than deal with the one at hand. At the risk of boring all listfolk -- surely the overwhelming majority -- who grasp my point better than you do, please allow me to explain myself yet again: What I objected to was an assertion that "America's ETH ufologists" are so foolish and so -- to use a word that continually surfaces in Rimmerian discourse -- paranoid that they have worked themselves into a dither about the (in reality unreal) threat posed by the Mothman Prophecies film. The remark wasn't funny -- and don't give me that tiresome rubbish about my having no sense of humor; there is a difference, known to most adults, between an adolescent jeer and an actual joke -- nor was it true. Even remotely. >>>It is interesting that you take such issue with one humourous >>>paragraph, and neglect the rest of the Pelican's argument. >>>Probably that tells us more about Jerome Clark than it does >>>about the Pelican. The Pelican's wing-flapping was, as Orwell would have put it (see his essay on politics and the English language), all wind, no substance. In any case, I have written at length about Keelian high-strangeness phenomena, hard-evidence UFO cases, the various theories, the claimed links, their similarities and differences, their possible reality or unreality status, their relationship or nonrelationship, and the like. Right or wrong, at least I've launched an argument that gets into the air, while the winged wonder remains earthbound, sputtering and bristling with resentment. That you think there is more there than meets the reader's eye in the P's rhetoric suggests to me that maybe the winged one's editor needs better glasses, or maybe a less opaque ideological filter. >Would it be too much to ask you to struggle past the Pelican's >unmitigatedly dishonest and shamelessly malicious first >paragraph, to discuss the gist of his article? Since Pelicanguy has no coherent argument visible beyond a charge that, in the most feeble of all dodges, you assert to be "humorous," I'll leave it to you to tell us what you thought he was saying. Clearly, this bird needs a translator into humantalk. Perhaps then we'll have something else to discuss. Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Salvaille From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:59:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:39:14 -0500 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Salvaille >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:44:35 -0700 >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille <snip> >>Although I get the feeling of a slight difference (is it only >>me?): in North America there doesn't seem to be any new stuff >>going around in ufology. >Hello Serge, >I'm not exactly sure about your observation. Just off the top >of my head I can think of: >1. Fran Ridge's excellent work on the NICAP site. >2. Tony Rullan's excellent work on UFO odor analysis, etc. >3. Barry Greenwood's excellent work in historical perspectives >4. Jan Aldrich's excellent work on P-47 bringing in new >information <snip> >14. Keith Chester's excellent work on Foo Fighters >Well, I could continue for quite awhile. <snip> >Nothing new in Ufology? Really? How many of you know that the >GRUDGE Report was edited before it was released and that the >full report sits on my shelf? Not many I'm willing to guess. Or >that Estimate of the Situation guidelines exist? How about the >fact that James Moseley at one time tried to take over NICAP? >That in 1961 Dr. Hynek supposedly had a piece of saucer debris >from a downed disc in Texas? Didn't think so...so you see, there >are new things coming to light in Ufology all the time, but they >don't come to the armchair researcher, now do they? <G> >Anyway, for what it's worth and I'm not really sure it's worth >much on email Lists. <snip> Hello Wendy, My little girl, like all little girls, collects everything. When we go on the seashore and the tide is low, she looks under the rocks hoping to catch a crab or some other shellfish. If, in her peregrinations, she stumbled over some strange artefact like the Holy Grail, that would be of no interest but for the 3 of us... unless the media were to find out and _make_a_story_ of it. Then this Holy Grail would get all its meaning. Of course, there is quite a difference between the Holy Grail and a 1963 coke bottle. Not necessarily to the eyes of my kid, which wouldn't grasp its significance. Still, why the difference in intrinsic values? Because of the numbers, the impact on history, how many people are touched. The same goes with all aspects of life, including ufology, which happens to be no more of a hobby than a stamp collection, until people in general - the world - get a grasp of its significance. I said not much was happening in ufology in North America, compared to UK, because, _there_, there were some headlines about government secret documents related to UFOs. This has nothing to do with the importance of the work some ufologists are doing in the shadows. It all boils down to the numbers, the popularity of any given subject, the degree of truth people grant to it. The idea of alien visitation is mind boggling, to say the least. And its implications, like all truths, prevent the majority from recognizing the facts that prove that, without a doubt, we are not alone. But your research can have its true meaning only if it goes mainstream. In the pre-WW II era, there were a few people in the US who pointed at what was going in Nazi Germany, the way they were treating the opponents to their ideologies, the way they were training their armies. To no avail. It never went mainstream. Even worse, in a country like Canada there were even laws against Jewish people at the time. History went on, with echoes that can be heard in the present Israeli-Palestinian conflict. What about the whistle-blowers of pre-1939? Nada. Because their cause never went mainstream. BTW, Did you know about them? If not, does that make you an armchair historian? If yes, does that make you more sensitive to the abject events taking place in Palestine as we speak? With all due respect to your work and the work of others, ufology has been confined to the state of pastime and hobby because it has been unable to go mainstream. If it was something else, we wouldn't be having this exchange. You might be telling me something like... "Hello Serge, "I'm not exactly sure about your observation. "The flight characteristics displayed in the so & so report referred by the so & so SIGN document make it unquestionably a Thalassian." 55 years and still in a ghetto. Because of what? Is there a way to remedy this? Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Salvaille From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 14:34:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:40:45 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Salvaille >Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:48:06 -0500 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? >>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? <snip> >>One of my favourite sayings (which I have copyrighted) is: >>"Don't believe believers, and be skeptical of skeptics." My >>focus today is on the latter, particularly concerning a new book >>by a popular skeptic, Phil Plait. <snip> >Gathered around somebody's homemade reflector on this particular >occasion were about five or six individuals (who I did not know) >and they were having an animated discussion about UFOs. Sorry, I >don't recall the details of the conversation other than the >subject _was_ UFOs. Amateurs may not report their sightings >directly to Plait... but they sure as hell discuss the subject >with each other! ;) >BTW, not that I can't be fooled or mistaken, but after 30 + >years of sky-watching I am familiar with the (normal) contents >of the sky. Day and night. The UFOs I have observed and recorded >on film and video over the years are _not_ 'ducks', stars, >airplanes, Pelicans, party balloons, or blimps. I wouldn't waste >my (or anybody else's) time or the film recording or reporting >overflights of ducks. When I report a "UFO" it's because that is >what it is. (Unidentified/unidentifiable.) <snip> Hello John and Chris, So many observations must constitute a problem. There is a much better chance to see a UFO with your head up than looking at the weeds. I, for one, saw 'UFOs' on 2 occasions. Still, never reported them. I am sure that one's reputation in this domain is inversely proportional to the frequency of the reports. You report 1 UFO. Better be from a _ mass_ observation (multiple witnesses from different places). Otherwise, there is not much point. You report a second UFO, in similar circumstances, not corroborated by other witnesses except people of the same group and, boy, aren't you starting to build yourself a reputation. A third one? I can ear it from here: "Hey, guys, it's _him_ again". Mind you, this has nothing to do with 'competence'. Even if you have a video to back up your observation, that won't help much. A video is a video is a video. It's never the smoking gun, but always jerky and not much can come out of it. Sad, but true. Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous? - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 13:57:29 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:42:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous? - Felder I am looking for input from anyone who may have attended the discussion detailed below: - begin quote - Saturday September 22, 2001 4:30 PM 101 Olin Hall Wake Forest University Winston-Salem, NC People feel a need to be members of a group, to feel they are "special" or "chosen", and to be reassured that there is nothing "wrong" with them. In his humorous film, "Non-Abductees Anonymous," Phillip Powell addresses all of these. Social psychologist Geoff MacDonald will ask how different "abductees" are from "normal" members of society. What does social psychology have to say about both how and why people come to believe they have been abducted by aliens? Please join Phillip Powell and psychologist Geoff MacDonald for this discussion of the alien abduction phenomenon. Phillip Powell is a director for Leading Edge Video in Winston-Salem. He has a degree in Broadcast Communication from Asbury College and has been producing films and video for over fifteen years. Geoff MacDonald is a visiting professor specializing in social psychology at Wake Forest University. - end quote - If you attended, please email me privately regarding your assessment of this discussion. Thanks Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 6 James Easton From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 23:47:12 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:43:24 -0500 Subject: James Easton As we say Stateside, James Easton is a piece of work. He never responds to rebuttals of his arguments about major U.S. cases, but simply keeps posting factually inaccurate whoppers over and over again as if repetition equals science. I aver that he is dead wrong, to my personal knowledge, about Socorro and Ravenna, Ohio, among other examples. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: The British Government & UFOS From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:12:02 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:17:02 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:44:35 -0700 >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille <snip> >Hello Serge, >I'm not exactly sure about your observation. Just off the top >of my head I can think of: >1. Fran Ridge's excellent work on the NICAP site. >2. Tony Rullan's excellent work on UFO odor analysis, etc. >3. Barry Greenwood's excellent work in historical perspectives >4. Jan Aldrich's excellent work on P-47 bringing in new information <snip> >Nothing new in Ufology? Really? How many of you know that the >GRUDGE Report was edited before it was released and that the >full report sits on my shelf? Not many I'm willing to guess. Or >that Estimate of the Situation guidelines exist? How about the >fact that James Moseley at one time tried to take over NICAP? >That in 1961 Dr. Hynek supposedly had a piece of saucer debris >from a downed disc in Texas? Didn't think so...so you see, there >are new things coming to light in Ufology all the time, but they >don't come to the armchair researcher, now do they? <G> >Anyway, for what it's worth and I'm not really sure it's worth >much on email Lists. Hi Wendy. I read your post with interest, and I thank you for taking the time to post it, but a few questions did come to mind that beg for a bit of clarity. 1 - All the people you listed who are doing such excellent work - is there, to your knowledge, any effort being made toward consolidating all of this data together into a central database or some central repository? 2 - Where one can easily see how the unedited copy you mention that is sitting on your shelf could be a valuable resource to you, do you make that resource available to other researchers, or at least let them know where they can obtain a copy of this unedited version? 3 - While I'm sure that Dr. Hynek having possession of alien debris would have been thrilling beyond belief to him, it does little good in the long run to relate stories like that if there is no evidence to support the facts of the story. "Supposedly" having a piece of saucer debris is nothing more than rumor. Do you have any evidence that would propel that rumor into the "fact" column? Thanks in advance for clearing up these little points. Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder --->backwoods of Mississippi --->USA --->planet Earth --->somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:27:46 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:39:40 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:59:18 -0500 >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:44:35 -0700 >>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille <snip> >The same goes with all aspects of life, including ufology, which >happens to be no more of a hobby than a stamp collection, until >people in general - the world - get a grasp of its significance. >I said not much was happening in ufology in North America, >compared to UK, because, _there_, there were some headlines >about government secret documents related to UFOs. >This has nothing to do with the importance of the work some >ufologists are doing in the shadows. >It all boils down to the numbers, the popularity of any given >subject, the degree of truth people grant to it. >The idea of alien visitation is mind boggling, to say the least. >And its implications, like all truths, prevent the majority from >recognizing the facts that prove that, without a doubt, we are >not alone. >But your research can have its true meaning only if it goes >mainstream. <snip> Hi Serge, Wendy, all I think you hit the nail on the head, Serge, with your comments about ufology and the "mainstream". Maybe what ufology needs is a good PR firm :) Are you aware of the significant role that cornbread played in the growth of women's rights in the United States? Did you know that if it weren't for mosquitos, we Americans might all be speaking French and eating snails? More than likely, you didn't know because these obscure facts don't get into the mainstream of typical historical teachings or text books. These facts come out when someone takes the time to sift through the archives and make the information available. With the internet, there is less need to spend so many hours in those archives. And more and more historical data is making its way to the internet even as we speak. The University I attend, for example, is working very hard to get its historical archives available in an online database. They are, at the moment, concentrating on oral histories; transcripts of interviews as well as sound files of the actual interview. Some of these interviews were done 30 years ago. Incredibly interesting stuff! Doing research from an armchair may not accomplish a whole lot, I agree. But doing some of it from a computer desk is not a bad thing, in my opinion. It is simply one of the wonders of modern technology. And with gas prices the way they are, it helps the pocket book, too :) Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: James Easton - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:14:06 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:41:56 -0400 Subject: Re: James Easton - Gates >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 23:47:12 +0000 >Subject: James Easton >As we say Stateside, James Easton is a piece of work. He never >responds to rebuttals of his arguments about major U.S. cases, >but simply keeps posting factually inaccurate whoppers over and >over again as if repetition equals science. I aver that he is >dead wrong, to my personal knowledge, about Socorro and Ravenna, >Ohio, among other examples. Hi Dick all, Keep in mind that he just touted the hazy, drunken memorys of a dude, who was telling storys at a bar while putting down pitchers of beer and claimed that he particpated in the AA production. While I am not a supporter of AA, I would point out that had this same dude been telling a pro-UFO story, whether that be about Roswell or any other cases the skeptics would have dismissed it out of hand. But when the story being told agrees with the skeptics, they tout it as reputable. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:09:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:44:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:40:04 -0600 >>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:48:23 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >John, John, >>Jerry, you are the master of avoidance, in that you have >>concentrated on one paragraph in the Pelican's piece, and >>totally avoided addressing the rest of his argument. I find this >>particularly surprising in that, if you do ever get round to >>reading it, you might find that the Pelican's views on John Keel >>are not entirely dissimilar to your own. >I have no doubt that the Pelican and I see John Keel very much >the same way. It's not the P's intelligence or rationality that >I have problems with, it's his honesty. I also have trouble, by >the way, with your continuing effort to change the subject >rather than deal with the one at hand. At the risk of boring all >listfolk -- surely the overwhelming majority -- who grasp my >point better than you do, please allow me to explain myself yet >again: >What I objected to was an assertion that "America's ETH >ufologists" are so foolish and so -- to use a word that >continually surfaces in Rimmerian discourse -- paranoid that >they have worked themselves into a dither about the (in reality >unreal) threat posed by the Mothman Prophecies film. The remark >wasn't funny -- and don't give me that tiresome rubbish about my >having no sense of humor; there is a difference, known to most >adults, between an adolescent jeer and an actual joke -- nor was >it true. Even remotely. Jerry, it is clear that you seem to be alone in your over- reaction to the Pelican's joke, adolescent jeer (the venerable Pelican enjoyed that one) or what you will. Other people seem to have seen it as humour and reacted accordingly I don't know what you count as 'working oneself into a dither', but you seem to have done a good job of it in your last few posts. If you look back at some of the contributions to this List when Mothman Prophecies came out, you will see that quite a few people were concerned that the film would give the public the wrong impression about ufology. The point the Pelican was making was that Keel's on-the-spot research, far from being cranky and unrepresentative, was confirmed by other researchers, but the experiences he uncovered fitted poorly into the ET hypothesis supported by a majority of ufologists at the time, and subsequently. As a result, a lot of these experiences were edited from the record by "America's ETH Ufologists". Peter Rogerson has covered a lot of this ground in his "Notes Towards a Revisionist History of Abductions", in the Eighties Archives on the Magonia website. The pelican is temporarily incommunidado, having flown back to St James's Park, where he catches and eats small water birds, to the horror of American tourists. I, on the other hand, am off to the Fortean Times UnConvention, to listen to the wisdom of Jim Moseley and the many other American speakers who are gracing our shores at the moment. Maybe next year we wil be able to have Jerry presenting his wit and wisdom. I have already asked Bob rickard if this can be arranged. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 New At Magonia From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:16:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:46:33 -0400 Subject: New At Magonia A few additions to the Magonia archive of psycho-social sophistry, which may be of interest to UpDaters, including a number of pieces by the late Roger Sandell. http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/80/conspire.htm Back in 1981 Roger Sandell wrote this overview of the then- burgeoning conspiracy culture. 20 years later, little has changed... http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/80/apocwhen.htm Roger Sandell appraises the writings of the ever-popular Nostradamus. http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/80/polish.htm Wojtek Gaworzewski on a little-known Polish prophet. http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/walton.htm John Harney takes another look at the controversial Travis Walton abduction. http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ufomedia.html Dr Chris French on the plight of the sceptical ufologist confronted by the media. http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/70/metaphor.htm Roger Sandell looks at sasquath, the loch ness Monster and UFOs: what are the links? Hope you enjoy at least some of them. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:52:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:49:04 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:59:18 -0500 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Salvaille >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:44:35 -0700 >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille <snip> Hi Serge, Nicely worded, your response. >But your research can have its true meaning only if it goes >mainstream. It makes no difference if one's research is mainstream. It is the journey and devotion to one's curiosity that matters. True meaning is a personal issue. Polls conducted in the U. S. show that the majority believe in UFOs. So the concept is mainstream, even though most don't devote time to research or care if it is a science, any more than the majority of people don't dispute astronomy, but don't gaze through the telescope. All sciences are based solely upon self interest and formulated by a minute percentage of the so- called mainstream. >If not, does that make you an armchair historian? If yes, >does that make you more sensitive to the>abject events taking >place in Palestine as we speak?> Me, an armchair historian? Now that's a real hoot! You jest, of course. If not, you're not exactly the brightest bulb on the Marquis. <g> >55 years and still in a ghetto. >Because of what? I'm not sure the Palestinian issue relates or correlates to crypto-aeronautics. That's a googlplexian stretch. But, are you asking me if I am aware of the historical thread that has led to the current situation? Yes, I am very aware. I was alive before Israel existed or Arnold glimpsed shiny aluminum colored pelicans. <G> Heaven's, I am even aware of the Ottoman Empire, etc. I guess being an old school 'marm had a lot to do with paying attention to history and being around as history was being made since the 1940s. I admit it. I'm getting to be an old broad. <g> 55 years in a ghetto. Because of what? Interesting question. How about this: If a nomadic tribe fails to evolve and select leaders who don't lead, or allow progress to enrich their people, or the people are either afraid of their leader or have learned generation to generation that their leaders are self-serving, then the ghetto is of their own making. Honest history? There was no Palestine state or country to begin with. They were a nomadic tribe under the Ottoman Empire. In 55 years they have done nothing to formalize a nation for themselves, yet it was offered just a few years ago by statesmen their own leader(s) castigate today. Nations are built upon compromise...not enticement of children to become bombs for an insane concept of glory to prove an insane position. A quotation from Shakespeare's _Merchant of Venice_ is appropo here: _If to do were as good as to know what was not good to do. Had chapels been churches and poor men's cottages princes' palaces. Tis a good divine that follow their own instruction. It is easier to teach twenty what is good to be done, than to be one of the twenty to follow one's own teaching_ When a poor leader incites their people to hate and blame other nations for their own short comings to cover their own incompetence or self-serving immorality, it speaks volumes. I'd be more impressed if the Arafat's, Saddam's, King Fiasal's, Omar's, Shiek's, etc. would strap the bomb belts on themselves and prove to their own children that they have the guts to follow their own teaching. But, you and I both know that won't happen. Why? Because they are cowards...they sacrifice their children in the name of their own deluded self-importance. People like that are incapable of building a nation, only destroy out of jealousy. The ghetto? It is of their own making. It is easier to play the victim than the courage to work to make a garden out of the sand. Finally, Serge, do I have compassion for the plight of the Palestinian people? Yes, but I am intelligent enough to know that _he who troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind and the fool becomes servant to the wise in heart_ The Palestinians were offered almost all they asked for, but their fanatical leaders were too stupid to take it and allow for negotiations for the remaining once they had their house in order and their people on the road to self determination. What a waste of humanity. But a wise person knows that an individual reaps what they sow and this concept aptly applies to societies as well. Let the war begin... from the ashes of hate expended always comes a new hope for humanity. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Cydonian Imperative: 4-7-02 From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:54:38 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:50:37 -0400 Subject: Cydonian Imperative: 4-7-02 The Cydonian Imperative 4-7-02 NASA Offers Evidence of Life on Mars by Mac Tonnies for images and links: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html [image] Was Sagan Memorial Station once green? Mars researchers Carole Stoker and Pascal Ashwanden of NASA's Ames Research Center have detected signs of chlorophyll at the Pathfinder landing site. If this discovery is confirmed, the argument for past life on the Red Planet will be effectively cinched. While Stoker and Ashwanden's work should certainly not go unremarked, NASA's continued treatment of the prospect of Martian life is peculiarly myopic. The space agency has yet to offer an explanation for the apparent tree-like life-forms pointed out repeatedly by Arthur C. Clarke. [image] The "banyan trees" of Mars. If not biology...what? As I've postulated elsewhere on The Cyonian Imperative, NASA's reluctance to take a scientific initiative concerning extant Martian life is most likely due to the political squabbles that define access to the Mars Global Surveyor (see "NASA's 'Search for Life' a Charade" on page 23). The available evidence indicates that Mars is not a dead world at all, but a surprisingly hospitable planet with abundant micro- and macro-scopic organisms. While researching Mars' biological past is of obvious crucial importance, I feel such tentative studies are overshadowed by the prospect of existing life. With the international space science community making further discoveries bearing out the hypothesis of a "living Mars," it is only a matter of time until NASA's present conceit must undergo a shattering redefinition. (In many ways, NASA's dealings with Martian biology remind me of mainstream SETI's "not in my backyard" philosophy concerning extraterrestrial intelligence. The dominant paradigm seeks to displace the potential of ET life in time and space; collectively, we seem to want to find life "out there," yet balk when confronted with evidence that threatens prevailing assumptions.) -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:54:36 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Hamilton >Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:48:06 -0500 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? >>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? >>One of my favourite sayings (which I have copyrighted) is: >>"Don't believe believers, and be skeptical of skeptics." My >>focus today is on the latter, particularly concerning a new book >>by a popular skeptic, Phil Plait. >>Plait's articles in the past have been very enlightening and >>right on in terms of correcting some misconceptions about space >>and astronomy. He was one of the loudest opponents of the Hale- >>Bopp "spaceship" fiasco (and rightly so; he has some choice >>words for Chuck Shramek, Ed Dames, et al.). He may go a bit far >>in his criticisms of astronomy as portrayed in Star Trek, since >>I think most people realize it's just a fictional TV show, but >>then again, I have met some really wide-eyed trekkers. ><snip> >I am an amateur astronomer. Although it's been quite some time >since I have been 'active' I am also an experienced (UFO seeing) >sky observer. <snip> >Gathered around somebody's homemade reflector on this particular >occasion were about five or six individuals (who I did not know) >and they were having an animated discussion about UFOs. Sorry, I >don't recall the details of the conversation other than the >subject _was_ UFOs. Amateurs may not report their sightings >directly to Plait... but they sure as hell discuss the subject >with each other! ;) >BTW, not that I can't be fooled or mistaken, but after 30 + >years of sky-watching I am familiar with the (normal) contents >of the sky. Day and night. The UFOs I have observed and recorded >on film and video over the years are _not_ 'ducks', stars, >airplanes, Pelicans, party balloons, or blimps. I wouldn't waste >my (or anybody else's) time or the film recording or reporting >overflights of ducks. When I report a "UFO" it's because that is >what it is. (Unidentified/unidentifiable.) John, My efforts as an amateur astronomer started when I was a mere 9 years old, but did not have my own telescope until I was 15. Neighbor kids would come over to have a look at the moon. During one of these sessions, a very large object came flying out of the north and literally stopped on a dime just over our heads (as if it planned it). Without anymore description than that I would find it difficult to place this object in already known categories of astronomical moving objects as the categories are not plentiful as you know. If it was a night-flying duck, then this duck was shaped like a double cone and glowing brightly with white nose and white tail. Maybe it was a new heretofore unrecognized species of duck. It refused to quack or make any noise whatsoever. I guess good astronomy then is to identify those UFOs as ducks or pelicans. -Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 'Magic' Codewords From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:57:49 -0400 Subject: 'Magic' Codewords On Majestic codewords and other codewords used more than once, my friend Robert Collins (ex Capt USAF) who has been making a study of the Majestic documents writes: "Majestic", "Magic" Code Words used during WWII by the Navy and Army? Reference below the Navy and Army Code Words dating back to WWII. Code Words can be used or reused repeatedly in some cases to act as a cover for other projects which are deemed to be "more sensitive".\ As an example, there is an NSA Project Aquarius that deals with "advanced communications." But there is also (according to the NSA FOIA official 1986) another Project Aquarius run by the Air Force. From information we have this "other" AF Project Aquarius pertains to UFOs. In the case of Majestic or Magic these are related to Mj12 and MAJIC or Military Assessment Joint Intelligence Committee. The MJ is formed by taking the first and third letters of the acronym MAJIC which is by the way the first and third letters of Majestic, coincidence ? We think not. The phonetic spelling for MAJIC is MAGIC. So, as the reader can see Code Words can be used again but with interesting variations. The method of using Code Words in the case of UFOs is a cover within a cover or like the layers of an onion. The same Code Word used repeatedly but for different classified projects that protect the most vital sensitive core project(s)..... Navy MAJESTIC - Invasion of Kyushu, Japan (projected). MAJESTIC - Taliwaga, New Britain. MAJESTY - A craft shelter and breakwater formed of sunken blockships for use against the Japanese. Reference: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/NAVEXOS_P-474M.htm Army MAGIC - World War II signals intelligence derived from interception of Japanese encoded message traffic. Reference: http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/reference/code.htm -Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Strange Lights In Sky Baffle Bavarians From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 16:00:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:14:47 -0400 Subject: Strange Lights In Sky Baffle Bavarians Source: http://webcenter.newssearch.netscape.com/aolns_display.adp?key020407055400025884 2_aolns.src Sunday, April 7, 2002 Strange lights in the sky baffle Bavarians MUNICH, Germany, April 7 (Reuters) - Strange lights in the sky baffled Bavarians late on Saturday as hundreds of panicked callers jammed police telephone lines seeking an explanation for the phenomenon. Reports of an unsettling late-night natural light show came from all over the southern German state as well as the neighbouring region of Baden-Wuerttemberg. "It had nothing to do with the weather. But I don't think little green men from Mars have landed in Bavaria. It was something burning out in the atmosphere," a meteorologist said. "It was like a huge firework," a Reuters TV correspondent in Munich said, describing the display. "You could even see it through half-closed blinds. It lasted around three seconds," she said. Pilots flying into Munich airport radioed the control tower with reports of unusual lights in the sky. The German police said NASA scientists initially thought the light was caused by space junk - floating debris in the Earth's atmosphere - but later said they were still unsure. The German army reported no unusual movements on its radar. Scientists said the lights may have the result of a meteor breaking through the Earth's atmosphere. "There are no signs of impact or damage. We can't say what it was," a police spokesman said.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 20:28:09 +0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:18:22 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Lehmberg >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:51:26 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? >>Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:48:06 -0500 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? >>>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST >>>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? <snip> >My efforts as an amateur astronomer started when I was a mere 9 >years old, but did not have my own telescope until I was 15. >Neighbor kids would come over to have a look at the moon. During >one of these sessions, a very large object came flying out of >the north and literally stopped on a dime just over our heads >(as if it planned it). Without anymore description than that I >would find it difficult to place this object in already known >categories of astronomical moving objects as the categories are >not plentiful as you know. If it was a night-flying duck, then >this duck was shaped like a double cone and glowing brightly >with white nose and white tail. Maybe it was a new heretofore >unrecognized species of duck. It refused to quack or make any >noise whatsoever. I guess good astronomy then is to identify >those UFOs as ducks or pelicans. Geez -- and I bet your dad had just washed the car, too. [g]. Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Salvaille From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:45:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:21:08 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Salvaille >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:52:00 -0700 >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:59:18 -0500 >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Salvaille >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:44:35 -0700 >>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille Hello Wendy, <snip> >Nicely worded, your response. <snip> Thank you. <snip> >>But your research can have its true meaning only if it goes >>mainstream. >It makes no difference if one's research is mainstream. It is >the journey and devotion to one's curiosity that matters. True >meaning is a personal issue. <snip> You are absolutely right that true meaning is a personal issue. But if your research is confined to only personal issues, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I am not discussing about my kid's rock collection because it has no incidence on a vast majority of people - and, no, she didn't find the Holy Grail :) <snip> >Polls conducted in the U. S. show that the majority believe in >UFOs. So the concept is mainstream, even though most don't >devote time to research or care if it is a science, any more >than the majority of people don't dispute astronomy, but don't >gaze through the telescope. All sciences are based solely upon >self interest and formulated by a minute percentage of the so- >called mainstream. <snip> Yes. But ufology and astronomy are two different beasts. Astronomy is not being held back in the bayou as ufology is. How many billions for Hubble? At any point in time, 10% of this budget for a scientific study of UFOs would mean a quantum leap to ufology. <snip> >>If not, does that make you an armchair historian? If yes, >>does that make you more sensitive to the>abject events taking >>place in Palestine as we speak?> >Me, an armchair historian? Now that's a real hoot! You jest, of >course. If not, you're not exactly the brightest bulb on the >Marquis. <g> <snip> Since I'm not the dimmest bulb around, I didn't suggest that you were an armchair historian, just that, should you be one, it wouldn't keep you from having an opinion about the present issues in Israel, because of the mainstream aspect of the conflict. This allegory, that you have missed because of my obvious failure to be more precise, has apparently also led you to think that: >>55 years and still in a ghetto. ...referred to this conflict. Not. 55 years in the ghetto refers to ufology. Ufology has been in the ghetto for 55 years. It is a hobby and a pastime because, for many reasons, it has failed, against its intrinsic values, to go mainstream. The reasons for this failure need to be addressed. Unfortunately, this idea does not seem to find any echo among the researchers, as though they have been in this for so long that, not knowing anything else, they don't expect the situation to change. Come to think of it, this is the poor people syndrome. I guess all students of the subject - ufology - are rooting for its recognition. But has all hope been abandoned? You know, my spell checker never gets the word 'ufology'. It keeps suggesting 'urology' as a replacement. This should piss me off <hehehe>. Makes me smile every time. Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: New At Magonia - Mortellaro From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:06:37 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:24:26 -0400 Subject: Re: New At Magonia - Mortellaro >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:16:28 +0100 >Subject: New At Magonia Dear John, List and Errol, Now there are some on this List who've complained about the issue of elitism on UpDates. Here is an example of elitism at it's absolute worst. When was the last time Errol published one of the changes to our magazine? _Never!_ That's when. And if that is not elitism, I just don't know what the heck is. Read: >A few additions to the Magonia archive of psycho-social >sophistry, which may be of interest to UpDaters, including a >number of pieces by the late Roger Sandell. Just last week I sent Errol a post on our magazine, Littel Magnolia Blossom. LMB is dedicated to the Black Pelican phenomena. Did he print it? No! Why? I aks you. Perhaps it is too politically incorrect? Perhaps it is too minority oriented and EBK does not wish to become involved in the truth of the minority Black Pelican, which has done so much to give gas enough to cause UFO sightings throughout the globe. >http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/80/conspire.htm >Back in 1981 Roger Sandell wrote this overview of the then- >burgeoning conspiracy culture. 20 years later, little has >changed... Our magazine proves beyond a shadow, that the white pelican has conspired to mar the veracity of the black pelican and as if this were not enough, has acquired the services of a reputable pelicanist publication, purporting to perpetrate physical attributes of pulchritude into the white pelican plot to poop on us, the black pelicans. You could have heard it here, but presumably, white pelicanist Knapp has decided to play favorites. >http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/80/apocwhen.htm >Roger Sandell appraises the writings of the ever-popular >Nostradamus. Nostadamus my arss. He is Nospheratu... Nosferatu... whatever. Anyway, he was white. >http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/80/polish.htm >Wojtek Gaworzewski on a little-known Polish prophet. I won't go there. <snip> >Hope you enjoy at least some of them. Sure. Lies. All lies. Next time you post something, just think on the fact that Errol Bruce-Knapp is not being fair. Nor is he being honest. But you won't read that on UpDates, because EBK is an avowed white pelican man. Hey pelican man! Print this! Dr. J. Jaime Gesundt... black and proud of it. Long live the large lunged black pelican.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:03:37 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:48:20 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:45:40 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:52:00 -0700 >>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:59:18 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>>To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>>Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:44:35 -0700 >>>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>>>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille <snip> Hi Serge, Gosh, I'm glad you didn't get upset with the 'dim bulb'... thing and knew it was said in jest. I apologize for being dense about the Palestinian thing. But, it did give me a chance to toot about it, eh? <g> I dunno, but I guess I'm just weird in my old age. I find the field of crypto-aeronautics (gosh, I hate the word 'ufology' because it's outdated) more exciting now than in the last twenty years. I cannot believe so many pieces of the puzzle have been plugged of late with the tidbits that help give clarity. Maybe the field is too diverse and that has brought apathy or something. I do know that it has become so bogged down because everyone and their five-legged bovine wants to combine New Age guruism, crop circles, bigfoot, abductions, psi tech, monuments of Mars, Marfa lights, Tesla, etc. into a field that concentrated on the nuts and bolts-appearing manufactured craft of decades past. Sure has muddied the waters to be sure. Then there's the pelican droppings covering the field... But, I can't help but see some really great research going on under the List noise and away from the opine reguritation bunch. The good stuff seems to be getting lost. The field of 'Ufology' is only a tad over 50 years old. Seems to me, if I've read the history books correctly, most all other sciences went through the stage of mumbo-jumboism and heathanism for a lot longer before they solidified into a concept called 'science'. 'Tis just me, but I figure ufology is still ensconced in the birth canal and I have dreams and hopes that maybe in another hundred years or so, it will evolve and become legitimate. In the meantime, I and others strive to preserve for the generations yet to come. My noble dream? The day will come when our kind will come face to face with another sentient species. When that happens ufology will definitely shine and become mainstream legitimate. In the meantime, it's still legitimate... for when is it not legitimate to explore beyond ourselves and try to understand that which seems beyond understanding? After all, isn't this the only claim we can make for our humanity? Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Strange Lights In Sky Baffle Bavarians - Koch From: Joachim Koch <Achimdkoch@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 02:15:54 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:51:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Strange Lights In Sky Baffle Bavarians - Koch >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 16:00:39 -0400 >Subject: Strange lights in the sky baffle Bavarians Hi All, It was a big meteorite (bolide) which exploded in the atmosphere. A farmers wife in Southern Bavaria found some debris which was fallen into her garden (it was luminous when it came down). She took it to the police and preliminary analysis suggests it to be a piece of a meteorite. Yes, it was in all the news, especially because it was seen and reported by pilots and thousands of people all over the country. One light was witnessed near the Southern runway of Munich airport. Yes, and all the "experts" immediately showed up, both sceptics and believers :-)) Greetings from Berlin Joachim Koch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 09:46:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:54:25 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 >>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:12:48 +0100 >>>From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>>Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:06:28 +0000 >Hello Georgina, ><snip> >>>THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT AND UFOs >>>OFFICIAL HISTORY REVEALED >>>By Georgina Bruni & Nick Pope >>See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/mar/m28-022.shtml >>As Errol quite rightly explained, this List is not for rudeness, >>nastiness, bickering and name-calling. ><snip> >We all concur. ><snip> >>We are willing to answer questions on our research and our >>article in UFO Magazine www.ufomag.co.uk but will not get drawn >>into a slanging match with certain British ufologists who seem >>to take pleasure in trying to discredit our work. It's a good way of avoiding the issues, really. What I am saying is that Georgina and Nick are/were not the first to discover these documents. Anyone making such a claim, and related claims, must expect to have their information challenged! Yes, of course they're right that these are important issues and yes they're right to address them. They are wrong to claim that they are the first/only people with this information. If I claimed to be the first, and to have exclusive material and I was wrong then I know that list members would right highlight this! Eric
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:08:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:56:36 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Morris >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:59:14 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: 'Magic' Codewords >On Majestic codewords and other codewords used more than once, >my friend Robert Collins (ex Capt USAF) who has been making a >study of the Majestic documents writes: >"Majestic", "Magic" Code Words used during WWII by the Navy and >Army? >Reference below the Navy and Army Code Words dating back to >WWII. Code Words can be used or reused repeatedly in some cases >to act as a cover for other projects which are deemed to be >"more sensitive".\ As an example, there is an NSA Project >Aquarius that deals with "advanced communications." But there is >also (according to the NSA FOIA official 1986) another Project >Aquarius run by the Air Force. From information we have this >"other" AF Project Aquarius pertains to UFOs. But the documents were clearly a hoax so...? >In the case of >Majestic or Magic these are related to Mj12 and MAJIC or >Military Assessment Joint Intelligence Committee. The latter has surely been made up within the second batch of fake documents? >The MJ is >formed by taking the first and third letters of the acronym >MAJIC which is by the way the first and third letters of >Majestic, coincidence ? We think not. The phonetic spelling for >MAJIC is MAGIC. So, as the reader can see Code Words can be used >again but with interesting variations. This is not entirely correct, is it? After all, despite the many and multiple evasions of the recent 18-19 years of MJ-lore there has never been ANY proof that this is anything more than a hoax. I was sitting here thinking, "I bet somebody will come along and say that there are mutliple Majestics, and that the real Majestic is Above Top Secret" and I was right! >The method of using Code >Words in the case of UFOs is a cover within a cover or like the >layers of an onion. That is a conspiracy theory, not borne out by the minimal evidence shown below. >The same Code Word used repeatedly but for >different classified projects that protect the most vital >sensitive core project(s)..... >Navy >MAJESTIC - Invasion of Kyushu, Japan (projected). >MAJESTIC - Taliwaga, New Britain. >MAJESTY - A craft shelter and breakwater formed of sunken >blockships for use against the Japanese. >Reference: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/NAVEXOS_P-474M.htm All well and good, but isn't what is really happening (and which has been alluded to by Tim Good and others) the misuse, sorry, re-use, of old military documents discovered in archives by the hoaxer/s and their transmission into the UFO research community by whatever means?? So, one suggestion is that they, whoever they are, are just literally cutting and pasting existing documents OR using these as a template for new documents. This is what a counterfeiter would do, and I'm sure that this is what the MJers are doing too.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:51:10 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:56:30 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Connors >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:12:02 -0600 >Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:17:02 -0400 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:44:35 -0700 >>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille <snip> Hi Bobbie, >1 - All the people you listed who are doing such excellent >work - is there, to your knowledge, any >effort being made >toward consolidating all of this data together into a central >database or some >central repository? Project 1947 and SIGN Historical Group members routinely contribute their research to be put on-line. This will sound "elitist," but it really isn't, that most researchers are pretty much mavericks in thier endeavors and for a number of reasons. Among these reasons is that research is usually on-going and not ready for release to the entire field. Thus, many of us share portions of our research with a select few in order to obtain peer review, which cannot be done via email opine lists. There is a process among the SHG, for example, that allows research to be shared and stored so that it won't be lost due to the individualism factors among researchers. On-going research is usually published in the International UFO Reporter, etc. in order to introduce it to the field. Researchers who do not have the time or funds to do field research can keep up to date by subscribing to CUFOS' International UFO Reporter, visiting the P-47 and SHG websites or individual researchers who have the time to maintain their own websites. Unfortunately, there is not a funding source adequate enough to handle the needs of researchers or maintain, in total, the files built by researchers. At least not yet. Most all researchers I know of who are coming forth with new documentation and information, do so with expenditures out of their own pocket. Thus, another reason why much new information is not immediately shared with the field in total. When a person spends a great deal of money to obtain important documentation, etc., they think twice before giving it out without being able to recoup some of what they have expended. Personally, I find nothing wrong with this. Seems to me that the person who put the effort and shouldered the expense, deserves maintaining and controlling their information flow. Just a casual mention would be the "theft and interference" factor going on in the field of ufology. Many researchers find their contributions being used by others who don't have the courtesy to at least give the source for the material they use on their websites, etc. This is one of the reasons I no longer maintain a website. I didn't care if others wanted to copy things from it for their own websites, but the majority that did so didn't even give me a credit line when an article of mine appeared on their site. But, I certainly share my work with a select few that I trust and who reciprocates with their research. Nothing is being lost like in years past, but much new information is kept from the mainstream for many of the above reasons. Yes, I admit it seems elitist, this war of words, among armchair researchers and field researchers. But it is impossible for the armchair researcher to have a grasp of the minute that is inherent in research done in the field. As an example. Let's look at the great work of Loren Gross. He might go through several thousand documents, read thousands of news clippings, travel for weeks on end to archives, etc., before he releases one of his great tomes of ufological history. Since it would be impossible for him to include absolutely everything in his booklet for a particular year, just the fact that he was exposed to thousands more documents, etc., and he had the expertise to break it all down and put forward to the field the most relevant material, does not qualify an armchair researcher who reads his work to give peer review. Certainly the armchair researcher can give some great opinions, but opinions are not peer review. Loren would have a much larger grasp of the overall view than would others. I would like to make one final comment regarding this issue. The field researcher, in comparison to the armchair reseracher, knows what others are researching and often discover something during their research that applies to someone else's research, but not their own at the time. This material is freely sent to that researcher out of courtesy and vice-versa. The armchair researcher cannot contribute this way, but they can support the field researcher by buying their books or reading their articles and sharing that knowledge with others who may not be aware of the new information or who are becoming interested in the field of ufology. Armchair researchers should also subsribe to Barry Greenwood's Historical Review and CUFOS' International UFO Reporter, send $20 to FUFOR designated to grant funds and buy FUFOR / CUFOS publications. All this helps not only the field researcher and the organizations that maintain large archives, but themselves as well because it ensures that new information coming from the field will be available. The armchair researcher is very important to the field of ufology. They are the mainstream voice to get the new information coming from field out to the masses. >2 - Where one can easily see how the unedited copy you >mention that is sitting on your shelf could >be a valuable >resource to you, do you make that resource available to other >researchers, or at least >let them know where they can obtain >a copy of this unedited version? Good question, Bobby. First, let me explain that many field researchers who have been around for a long time have extensive archives, but it is impossible to have everything, thus the reason that field researchers share among themselves. Like the organizations such as FUFOR, CUFOS, etc., field researchers do share with the armchair researcher materials they might be interested in. However, like anything else, those researchers who have large archives also have expenses and it takes time away from research to copy and send out material. I don't know of too many researchers that won't send out copies of things they may have, but I do know that they expect a fair monetary return for taking the time to do so and that it may take several months before the researcher has time to get it prepared and sent. 95% of the material I house in my own archive is available to anyone who needs copies of such materials. But again, it is sent at my convience (when I have time to do it) and I do charge for duplication and postage. I certainly don't charge 25 cents a page like the government, but I do charge. That money is used to resupply paper, toner, etc. I can honestly say I know of nobody making money off of duplicating from their archives. Actually, it's a losing proposition just from the aspect that it takes valuable time away from research endeavors. Likewise, my archive is open to just about any researcher who desires to come and use it. I do need advanced notice if people are coming, since I operate out of my home. The SHG is currently posting it's members archive listings of materials and that's a good source to use to find out what is available. I've just submitted my partial photo and audio holding database list to the SHG, so it will be awhile until it shows up on line. Barry Greenwood and Jan Aldrich already have their folder headings and article database holdings listed, as well as the materials donated to Ohio State University from Bill Jones. >3 - While I'm sure that Dr. Hynek having possession of alien >debris would have been thrilling >beyond belief to him, it >does little good in the long run to relate stories like that >if there is no >evidence to support the facts of the story. >"Supposedly" having a piece of saucer debris is nothing >more >than rumor. Do you have any evidence that would propel that >rumor into the "fact" column? Evidence or documentation supporting the rumor of Dr. Hynek having debris from a downed craft isn't important at the moment. What is important is that the rumor is documented and that is a starting point for research to determine if there is any validity at all to the rumor. Dr. Hynek was a meticulous man and kept much to himself, even from his closest associates. My relating the rumor only gave the information that the subject was discussed by long-ago researchers and wasn't known to mainstream ufology and even to many old timers in ufology, even today. You are correct only in that nobody should jump to any conclusions. But, I have a long recording of the principles involved in the discussion and there is always method to my madness when I make or release such a tidbit of information. I didn't mention the rumor just for fun. <G> Anyway, I hope my ramblings have helped answer your questions. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:59:29 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Hamilton >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: 'Magic' Codewords >Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:08:49 +0100 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:59:14 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: 'Magic' Codewords >>On Majestic codewords and other codewords used more than once, >>my friend Robert Collins (ex Capt USAF) who has been making a >>study of the Majestic documents writes: >>"Majestic", "Magic" Code Words used during WWII by the Navy and >>Army? >>Reference below the Navy and Army Code Words dating back to >>WWII. Code Words can be used or reused repeatedly in some cases >>to act as a cover for other projects which are deemed to be >>"more sensitive".\ As an example, there is an NSA Project >>Aquarius that deals with "advanced communications." But there is >>also (according to the NSA FOIA official 1986) another Project >>Aquarius run by the Air Force. From information we have this >>"other" AF Project Aquarius pertains to UFOs. >But the documents were clearly a hoax so...? >>In the case of >>Majestic or Magic these are related to Mj12 and MAJIC or >>Military Assessment Joint Intelligence Committee. >The latter has surely been made up within the second batch of >fake documents? I really regret getting involved in this debate as I have only been peripheral to further investigations. So far there are documents that have withstood tests of fakery and one set of burned original docs. These are still under investigation. Since this is a mixed bag and there are fake docs, it makes it difficult to make a definitive statement before the conclusion of an ongoing long investigation. It is evidently your belief these docs are faked and this has already undergone a long history of debate on this and other Lists with very little yield from either side. I think we need to see the complete case before we jump to conclusions. Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:11:06 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:02:55 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 09:46:30 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>>THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT AND UFOs >>>OFFICIAL HISTORY REVEALED >>>By Georgina Bruni & Nick Pope >It's a good way of avoiding the issues, really. What I am saying >is that Georgina and Nick are/were not the first to discover >these documents. Anyone making such a claim, and related claims, >must expect to have their information challenged! >Yes, of course they're right that these are important issues and >yes they're right to address them. They are wrong to claim that >they are the first/only people with this information. If I >claimed to be the first, and to have exclusive material and I >was wrong then I know that list members would right highlight >this! What's all this about? We never claimed anything of the sort. What we have done is publish the documents, including _Top_Secret_ documents, which have not been published before (the publication of these _Top Secret_ documents was a genuine world exclusive). We are not in competition with anybody: we are trying to do a service to ufology. These documents are available to all researchers, we just took the trouble to locate and research them and then have them published. Other researchers also have copies. So please get your facts right before you start making accusations. This is exactly what I said in a previous post. Ufology won't go anywhere whilst ufologists bark about who did what, and when. The fact is, that our story was not only about the documents, but about the British Establishment's involvement. You don't mention that when you make your criticisms. Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Mortellaro From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:11:50 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:08:05 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Mortellaro >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:03:37 -0600 >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:45:40 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS ><snip> >Hi Serge, >Gosh, I'm glad you didn't get upset with the 'dim bulb'... thing >and knew it was said in jest. I apologize for being dense about >the Palestinian thing. But, it did give me a chance to toot >about it, eh? <g> >I dunno, but I guess I'm just weird in my old age. I find the >field of crypto-aeronautics (gosh, I hate the word 'ufology' >because it's outdated) more exciting now than in the last twenty >years. I cannot believe so many pieces of the puzzle have been >plugged of late with the tidbits that help give clarity. Dear Wendy, Serge, List and Errol, Simple truth of it is, there was one time on this List, when some folks wanted to change the phrase 'UFO' to something else. It made me so frustratingly angry that I had to invent Dr. J. Jaime Gesundt. Very few people know this, but he's from Lilliput. And anything out his mouth is satire. Trouble is, there are few out there in the void (and I refer to research in general) who wish to read satire because it requires them to: A) Have a sense of humor and B) Read between the lines. C) There is also this rule, you must want to laugh... mostly at yourself..... Note that satire demands that you read between the lines. And I am not that good at it but neither am I so bad at it that people cannot comprehend if they follow rule "B" above. Which brings me to my second opinion, anyone who reads Lehmberg one time is not following the second rule. And that's a shame. For them. It's also a shame because most people (and this is my opinion) can't read Lehmberg without having to read it twice or more... and I am one of those). Anyone not following rule "B" above in my stuff is a shame more for me. Bu they are still wasting their time not reading it and understanding who the good guys and the bad guys are in this perceived experiencer's mind. Which brings me to your calling your black spade the Jack of hearts. See, doesn't matter what the hell you call it, it's still Ufology. Always will be until someone strikes a match between his or her own agenda and the one at hand, attempting to do some real research. >Maybe the field is too diverse and that has brought apathy or >something. I do know that it has become so bogged down because >everyone and their five-legged bovine wants to combine New Age >guruism, crop circles, bigfoot, abductions, psi tech, monuments >of Mars, Marfa lights, Tesla, etc. into a field that >concentrated on the nuts and bolts-appearing manufactured craft >of decades past. Sure has muddied the waters to be sure. Then >there's the pelican droppings covering the field... Maybe they are all related. Everyone has different interests. And why not make the Ufoological, the Ufological. Maybe if we have various people studying various phenomena, there will be some sort of link among them. Personally, I will stay within the UFO abduction phenom. I wonder why? >But, I can't help but see some really great research going on >under the List noise and away from the opine reguritation bunch. >The good stuff seems to be getting lost. The field of 'Ufology' >is only a tad over 50 years old. Seems to me, if I've read the >history books correctly, most all other sciences went through >the stage of mumbo-jumboism and heathanism for a lot longer >before they solidified into a concept called 'science'. 'Tis >just me, but I figure ufology is still ensconced in the birth >canal and I have dreams and hopes that maybe in another hundred >years or so, it will evolve and become legitimate. Oh Wendy, Wendy, Wendy... it is not being _lost_ !! Lady, it is being _ignored!_ And there's the rub. There's the part that makes me wanna holler New York (throw up). Out there in the void much is being done. But by the usual nobodies. Take me for example. There is now a project underway to examine perceived abductees on a medical and on an entirely medical basis to determine what if anything, is the difference in illnesses suffered by abductees vs the normals. It was posted on this List and ignored. Now from my standpoint, this is historic and absolutely original and important work. So who's involved? Not one UFOol. Not one researcher on this List. Not one abductee on this List. Not one person on this List. See? Lilliputz! >In the meantime, I and others strive to preserve for the >generations yet to come. My noble dream? The day will come when >our kind will come face to face with another sentient species. >When that happens ufology will definitely shine and become >mainstream legitimate. In the meantime, it's still >legitimate... for when is it not legitimate to explore beyond >ourselves and try to understand that which seems beyond >understanding? After all, isn't this the only claim we can make >for our humanity? Amen. And every time I hear the word "Wendy" I get a powerful hunger. Beyond that, there are things which should be known on this List. Things which I will present in another post, Errol permitting. Meanwhile, I pray that everyone do something they have not been doing, not in this writer's mind, what's left of it... That'd be to get back to the basics of this conundrum and stick with it. I mean, is it just me or does anyone else need a large dose of Prilosec when you hear pelicans and swamp gas being discussed at nauseum here. The names are changed, like Roz Swell and Dickie Doo and the Morphing lights (Lilliput... _Lilliput_). But the results are the same. This one's me... Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Phoenix Case - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:49:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:09:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Case - Maccabee >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:19:39 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Phoenix Case >Also, it is beyond doubt that there were nine lights in the >array. Tom King and I were close enough to see that the light on t>he far left was a pair. If the left hand light was a double then there were ten in the array (two at the left and 8 that formed the arc)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.8.02 From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 17:50:30 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:10:52 -0400 Subject: Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.8.02 ERAS NEWS The E-News Service of The Eras Project http://www.geocities.com/erasproject April 8, 2002 _____________________________ WEEKLY BRIEFING 4.8.02 EXOBIOLOGY The Search for Extraterrestrial Life Mars Soil Gives Hints of Green Planet http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/04/05/mars.green/index.html Life on Mars Hopes Raised http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1913000/1913228.stm Scientists Find New Evidence of Life on Mars http://www.ananova.com/yournews/story/sm_560874.html Cydonian Imperative: NASA Offers Evidence of Life on Mars http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html Story of Possible Life on Mars Overstated, NASA Says http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_life_020405.html QUANTA Science and Technology Asteroid Might Hit Earth in 2880, Unless it is Painted http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/asteroid_deflection_020404= .html A Homeland Defense for Planet Earth http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/earth_defense_020403-1.ht= ml Re-Think Planetary Exploration Plans, Advisory Group Urges http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/planetary_exploration_0204= 02.htm BIOSPHERE Environment Scientists Aim to Unlock 'Black Water' Mystery http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/04/02/black.water/index.html Mystery of Black Water off Florida Solved http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/blackwater_solved_020229.h= tml ____________________________ Eras News is the e-news service of The Eras Project, providing the latest news, reports and updates, including the Weekly Briefing, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe Eras News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca To unsubscribe, send an e-mail with Unsubscribe Eras News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Eras Project is a non-profit future studies project focusing on the leading-edge news, events, ideas and discoveries that will shape the future of humanity as we enter the 21st Century and a new Era. 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522 Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/erasproject =A9 The Eras Project, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:09:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:13:12 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Velez >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:51:26 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? <snip> >>I am an amateur astronomer. Although it's been quite some time >>since I have been 'active' I am also an experienced (UFO seeing) >>sky observer. ><snip> >>Gathered around somebody's homemade reflector on this particular >>occasion were about five or six individuals (who I did not know) >>and they were having an animated discussion about UFOs. Sorry, I >>don't recall the details of the conversation other than the >>subject _was_ UFOs. Amateurs may not report their sightings >>directly to Plait... but they sure as hell discuss the subject >>with each other! ;) >>BTW, not that I can't be fooled or mistaken, but after 30 + >>years of sky-watching I am familiar with the (normal) contents >>of the sky. Day and night. The UFOs I have observed and recorded >>on film and video over the years are _not_ 'ducks', stars, >>airplanes, Pelicans, party balloons, or blimps. I wouldn't waste >>my (or anybody else's) time or the film recording or reporting >>overflights of ducks. When I report a "UFO" it's because that is >>what it is. (Unidentified/unidentifiable.) >My efforts as an amateur astronomer started when I was a mere 9 >years old, but did not have my own telescope until I was 15. >Neighbor kids would come over to have a look at the moon. During >one of these sessions, a very large object came flying out of >the north and literally stopped on a dime just over our heads >(as if it planned it). Without anymore description than that I >would find it difficult to place this object in already known >categories of astronomical moving objects as the categories are >not plentiful as you know. If it was a night-flying duck, then >this duck was shaped like a double cone and glowing brightly >with white nose and white tail. Maybe it was a new heretofore >unrecognized species of duck. It refused to quack or make any >noise whatsoever. I guess good astronomy then is to identify >those UFOs as ducks or pelicans. Hello Bill, With all due respect to science and scientific protocols it never hurts to let people check out what's on the other side of the fence from time to time. While the focus of discussions usually tends toward the empirical, (and rightfully so) there is an equal amount of frustration that someone encounters when coming up against all of that from the other side. From the witnesses/reporter's point of view. This fellow Plait is just one of the more blatant examples of the obstacles and sources of frustration that a witness comes up against. His kind of rigid and exclusionary approach is exactly what is not needed. Until a multi-disciplinary team of investigators tackles the UFO (and all related) phenomena we're never going to get anything approaching 'reliable' answers. Plait's sweeping statement that amateur astronomers don't report sightings of UFOs is stopped in its tracks the moment it reaches you or me, or any number of others like us. We not only see UFOs and report "UFOs" but we record them as well. Granted that film and video is not proof, but it is all that we have. That is, unless someone knows of another/better way to record these events that is within the reach/ budget of the average working stiff. Let Plait spout his 'Plaititudes.' :) The buck stops right here. We are "proof" that his statement is false and inaccurate. Ducks! Geez, how many different bird species are going to get blamed for UFO sightings? At some point that kind of simplistic explanation reveals how ridiculous it is. I hope we've arrived at that point with Mr. Plait's absurd proclamation. Regards to you and Mrs. H, John Velez Amateur astronomer, UFO witness, abductee, and a whole bunch of other stuff. :) Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:34:06 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 17:29:05 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Jones >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:51:10 -0600 >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:12:02 -0600 >>Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:17:02 -0400 >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS Evening Wendy, Bobbie If I may I would like to say a quick something here. <huge snip to get to the point> >>2 - Where one can easily see how the unedited copy you >>mention that is sitting on your shelf could >be a valuable >>resource to you, do you make that resource available to other >>researchers, or at least >let them know where they can obtain >>a copy of this unedited version? >Good question, Bobby. First, let me explain that many field >researchers who have been around for a long time have extensive >archives, but it is impossible to have everything, thus the >reason that field researchers share among themselves. I once had an email for _someone_ who said simply "email me everything that you have on UFOs". I laughed, laughed quite a lot actually, then realised that this person had no conception of what he/she asked. So I patiently explained in a reply that I have a lot of confidential information, a lot of printed information and a lot of digital information, and that there was no way I could "email everything" even if I had the inclination to do so. This person replied with an abusive email accusing me of "covering up information". Now I have around 250+ books, 120+ DVD's & video's 40+ CD's and around 2Gig of Data on my hard drive of my own research material. This is _not_ a large collection of UFO stuff!! I am very picky about what I keep because between me and my fianc=E9 we have around 1600+ video's & DVD's and around 2500+ books, (on various subjects both fictional and fact) we simply do not have the room to store much more, so I _have_ to be selective. There are other researchers who have vastly more material than I have, I know Chris Rutkowski has a personal library of books similar in total to mine, but nearly all on UFOs and I have met Tim Good enough times to know that he purchased another apartment just to store his UFO stuff in. The long and short of my ramblings is this, it may not be practical for researchers to make freely available their stuff, even if they had the inclination to do so. So any person who does make the effort, like Wendy here, should be duly thanked, and thanked very much when she puts herself out to help people who do not realise how much effort these people have put into it to get this hoard of information, and not to mention the cost of it! I am happy to help out when people ask for specific items, or copies of information that have, I have yet to charge anything for my time, or postage even, but I do tend to share only with other researchers, because like Wendy, I can't "have everything" so sharing is a good compromise. I would take this opportunity to thank the individuals who have shared information with me, but the list would be long, and also, I wouldn't want to "name drop" <g> >Anyway, I hope my ramblings have helped answer your questions. Me 2 >Wendy Connors Best regards Sean
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Oft Mentioned Problem From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:45:50 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 17:40:40 -0400 Subject: Oft Mentioned Problem Hi - On this List, and on Errol's program itself, I often hear the lament that goes something like this: "We have tons of data. What we lack is someone to systematically analyze it." As a former computer programmer and UFO news follower, I suspect that one major stumbling block prevents this. No one has created a list of classification categories comprehensive enough to apply to virtually all sightings, landing sites with physical traces, abductions, and UFO pieces. Until that is done, analysis can't even be started. But the good news is when done by email brainstorming, it isn't that hard and can be fun. To start a meaningful analysis of data on file, researchers need to use a list like this to start building a list of UFO "event characteristics". These characteristics will form what database programmers call a data file 'layout'. A characteristic might be something like: RESEARCH BY: __________________ ENTERED BY: ___________________ DATE __/__/__ TIME __:__ DURATION: __:__ LOCATION: COUNTRY:______________________ STATE/PROV:___________________ CITY/LANDMARK_______________ WITNESS(ES)____________________ ________________________________ ________________________________ EVENT TYPE: ____ SIGHTING ____ LANDING TRACES ____ ABDUCTION ____ PHYSICAL ARTIFACTS etc... As can be seen, the total number of event characteristics which could be significant for analysis is H-U-G-E. Huge, but doable. And above all, WORTH doing to derive the fullest benefit from all the research work done to date. The real work of generating a layout for analysis purposes is that each characteristic must be limited to specific values, in other words, no free form text is useful for analysis. All free- form information gets slotted into the characteristics' allowable values. Some good news is, today's computers are _great_ at handling _huge_ file layouts, and can give answers in minutes which would take years or forever to do by hand. Data can be done by answering a series of questions, or if preferred, by entry into a structured spreadsheet. Other good news is, once an initial file layout is agreed upon by participating researchers, it can be _expanded_, and by that is normally meant characteristics are added, at any time without nullifying the previous work. Or, the range of allowable values of a given characteristic may be increased. What might be desirable in the event of an expansion of the file layout after data has been entered is to go back and make the extra entries for those event records already entered, but that is WAY less work than doing the job over. A good database operator can ensure no data is lost in such layout expansions. So - my suggestion to the highly motivated researchers who participate in the show and on this UpDates List is to start collecting suggested event characteristics - the computer name for these is "field names" - and when all the ideas have been exhausted and the analysis form has been created, start hammering in your records. That can be done on line, so no paperwork has to be mailed. You will need a java script programmer but that is fairly easy to come by at this stage of Internet maturity. Passwording of entry screens prevents unauthorized data entry. Since an 'analysis' is basically a list of instructions to the computer, it can be run as soon as you have half a dozen records. Just like the way pixellated images which load from the web start out foggy and get clearer as the loading proceeds, you all could have some sort of analysis within, I would guess six months. It's like the dreadful cleaning of a house full of stuff - once you start things get done at a surprising rate, but someone has to START. And progress reports made on the air would no doubt attract additional volunteer help. On air progress bulletins might also turn up a researcher who has already set up a system which could be adopted and possibly further modified as more heads get into the project. Any takers? Eleanor White Hamilton, Ontario
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 8 Who & Where Is John Macklin? From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 22:19:05 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 17:42:14 -0400 Subject: Who & Where Is John Macklin? Dear List members, I am trying to contact author John Macklin, author of several books on supernatural themes. Could someone please provide me with an address? Thankyou, Chris Aubeck
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:33:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 08:51:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:09:07 +0100 >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:40:04 -0600 >>>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:48:23 +0100 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman John, >Jerry, it is clear that you seem to be alone in your over- >reaction to the Pelican's joke, adolescent jeer (the venerable >Pelican enjoyed that one) or what you will. Other people seem to >have seen it as humour and reacted accordingly. As I read them, they were registering their agreement with me, not their appreciation of what your big-billed friend and you, apparently alone, regard as humor. But I've made my larger point, and I drop the subject. >The point the Pelican was making was that Keel's on-the-spot >research, far from being cranky and unrepresentative, was >confirmed by other researchers, but the experiences he uncovered >fitted poorly into the ET hypothesis supported by a majority of >ufologists at the time, and subsequently. As a result, a lot of >these experiences were edited from the record by "America's ETH >Ufologists". Peter Rogerson has covered a lot of this ground in >his "Notes Towards a Revisionist History of Abductions", in the >Eighties Archives on the Magonia website. I am curious to know exactly what was "edited from the record by 'America's ETH Ufologists.'" And why is Keel - whom you were dismissing as irrational and unreliable just a posting or so ago -- suddenly someone to whom we are all supposed to be answerable? Especially when his "data" include all kinds of hoaxes and otherwise dubious yarns? Do you really believe that the tall tales of Woody Derenberger and George Adamski, or of 1897 "airship inventors," discredit the ETH, or tell us anything we need to know about it? And are you really arguing that it is American ufologists' - excuse me, "America's ETH ufologists'" - - obligation to argue their case from the worst, and not the best, evidence? If so, this is an unusually transparent debunker's ploy. >Maybe next year we wil be able to have Jerry presenting his wit >and wisdom. I have already asked Bob rickard if this can be >arranged. Thank you, John. On one level this sounds like a happy prospect. I really did have a good time meeting and spending time with you last time I was in London. On the other hand, in my (good Magonian word) paranoid moments, I can almost see the lynch mob forming.... Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:18:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 08:55:43 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:51:10 -0600 >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:12:02 -0600 >>Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:17:02 -0400 >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>>To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>>Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:44:35 -0700 >>>>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >>>>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:49:55 -0400 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Salvaille <snip> >Project 1947 and SIGN Historical Group members routinely >contribute their research to be put on-line. This will sound >"elitist," but it really isn't, that most researchers are pretty >much mavericks in thier endeavors and for a number of reasons. >Among these reasons is that research is usually on-going and not >ready for release to the entire field. Thus, many of us share >portions of our research with a select few in order to obtain >peer review, which cannot be done via email opine lists. Hi Wendy That doesn't sound "elitist" at all; it sounds practical. There is a big difference, that we probably don't need to get into, between doing something for a perfectly sound, practical reason, versus an attitude of "elitism". I think you speak volumes, however, when you say that most researchers are pretty much mavericks. Maybe if there wasn't such a _maverick_ attitude, there might be more cooperation between researchers, and thus more might be accomplished. <snip> >Unfortunately, there is not a funding source adequate enough to >handle the needs of researchers or maintain, in total, the files >built by researchers. At least not yet. Most all researchers I >know of who are coming forth with new documentation and >information, do so with expenditures out of their own pocket. But isn't that the norm with any subject that is not, to borrow a descriptive term from Serge, "mainstream"? I know that professors at the University I attend gets research grants at times, but these are usually in the fields of established sciences, or the occasional historical research grant. It just seems to me that funding for research would naturally come out of pocket if one is researching a subject that does not have a wide following among those with the bucks to pass out in grant funds. I would think that out of pocket expenses to do the research would be expected in the UFO field since it is, unfortunately, still relegated to the "fringe element" in the mind of your average Joe on the street. If you think the subject isn't considered a _little_odd_ by your basic Smoe on the street, get a t-shirt that says in big letters, "I BELIEVE IN UFOs" and just watch the looks you get from the people you pass on the street. :) >Thus, another reason why much new information is not immediately >shared with the field in total. When a person spends a great >deal of money to obtain important documentation, etc., they >think twice before giving it out without being able to recoup >some of what they have expended. Personally, I find nothing >wrong with this. Seems to me that the person who put the effort >and shouldered the expense, deserves maintaining and controlling >their information flow. That's pretty much the position the US government takes on most matters :) >Just a casual mention would be the "theft and interference" >factor going on in the field of ufology. Many researchers find >their contributions being used by others who don't have the >courtesy to at least give the source for the material they use >on their websites, etc. This is one of the reasons I no longer >maintain a website. Plegarism is a disgusting occurrence, but to my knowledge, there is no law against it. If someone rips off your copywrited material, you can seek recourse in court if you have deep enough pockets to pursue it, I suppose. >Nothing is being lost like in years past, but much new >information is kept from the mainstream for many of the above >reasons. Yes, I admit it seems elitist, this war of words, among >armchair researchers and field researchers. But it is impossible >for the armchair researcher to have a grasp of the minute that >is inherent in research done in the field. Again, it doesn't sound elitist to me. It just sounds like a damn shame and a waste of good research. The cure for cancer does no one any good if it sits on a shelf gathering dust for fear that someone else will get "top billing" when CNN starts reporting on it. <snip> >Since it would be impossible for him to include absolutely >everything in his booklet for a particular year, just the fact >that he was exposed to thousands more documents, etc., and he >had the expertise to break it all down and put forward to the >field the most relevant material, does not qualify an armchair >researcher who reads his work to give peer review. Certainly the >armchair researcher can give some great opinions, but opinions >are not peer review. Loren would have a much larger grasp of the >overall view than would others. There is a big difference between peer review and offering up an informed opinion, or even a not-so-well-informed opinion. Where the "elitism" attitude comes into play is when one operates from the standpoint that a person does not have the right to offer an opinion. If one is looking for peer review, that's fine. Take it up with peers. If, however, one offers it for general discussion in a public forum, one should expect opinion from people in all walks of life and not get bent out of shape when he or she gets same. <snip> >The armchair researcher cannot contribute this way, but they can >support the field researcher by buying their books or reading >their articles and sharing that knowledge with others who may >not be aware of the new information or who are becoming >interested in the field of ufology. Exactly! And we do. Thank you for acknowledging the importance of the little cog in the great wheel of things who actually goes to the book store and plops out the cash for the books. :) <snip> >However, like anything else, those researchers >who have large archives also have expenses and it takes time >away from research to copy and send out material. I don't know >of too many researchers that won't send out copies of things >they may have, but I do know that they expect a fair monetary >return for taking the time to do so and that it may take several >months before the researcher has time to get it prepared and >sent. Sounds like a job for a central database/digital record repository. Have you ever looked at the BlackVault website? That young man has spent mucho dollares to obtain the files he has scanned and posted to his website. It has all been out of pocket expense for him, and he started when he was only 15. I know many people, myself included, who have contributed to his cause over the years for the simple reason that he makes every bit of the data he collects, available online at no charge for anyone who wants to look at it. He currently has over 103,000 documents he has obtained via FOIA online for anyone and everyone to read and/or use in their research. If you haven't looked at the website, check it out when you get a minute: http://www.blackvault.com >95% of the material I house in my own archive is available to >anyone who needs copies of such materials. But again, it is sent >at my convience (when I have time to do it) and I do charge for >duplication and postage. I certainly don't charge 25 cents a >page like the government, but I do charge. That money is used to >resupply paper, toner, etc. I can honestly say I know of nobody >making money off of duplicating from their archives. Actually, >it's a losing proposition just from the aspect that it takes >valuable time away from research endeavors. Time to digitize and email, Wendy! :) <snip> >Evidence or documentation supporting the rumor of Dr. Hynek >having debris from a downed craft isn't important at the moment. >What is important is that the rumor is documented and that is a >starting point for research to determine if there is any >validity at all to the rumor. The field abounds with rumors. Documented rumors. Get a good enough program on your computer, and you can come up with some pretty good looking documentation for rumors. I understand what you're saying but in today's age of technology, I think rumors are basically a dime a dozen. Why spread more? One can now go to the archives of this List, read your post, and spread a rumor far and wide that Dr. Hynek had alien debris in his possession. Before it runs its course, if the internet holds true to form, Dr. Hynek will have had an entire alien craft in his garage with frozen alien bodies in his freezer. :) Don't ya just love the Internet? :) <snip> >Anyway, I hope my ramblings have helped answer your questions. Yes, indeed. Very enlightening. Thanks :) Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Stanton T. Friedman IS Real! Review & Air-Date From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:24:14 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 08:57:45 -0400 Subject: Stanton T. Friedman IS Real! Review & Air-Date All: You can find the most recent review of our documentary look at the life and times of Stan Friedman at the on-line magazine... www.atlanticzone.ca ...under the entertainment section. The film will premiere (in Canada) June 19th on Space: The Imagination Station. Paul Kimball Redstar Films Limited www.redstarfilm.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 00:47:01 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:08:30 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Gates >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 08:23:03 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: 'Magic' Codewords >>From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: 'Magic' Codewords >>Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:08:49 +0100 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:59:14 -0700 (PDT) >>>Subject: 'Magic' Codewords >>>On Majestic codewords and other codewords used more than once, >>>my friend Robert Collins (ex Capt USAF) who has been making a >>>study of the Majestic documents writes: >>>"Majestic", "Magic" Code Words used during WWII by the Navy and >>>Army? >>>Reference below the Navy and Army Code Words dating back to >>>WWII. Code Words can be used or reused repeatedly in some cases >>>to act as a cover for other projects which are deemed to be >>>"more sensitive".\ As an example, there is an NSA Project >>>Aquarius that deals with "advanced communications." But there is >>>also (according to the NSA FOIA official 1986) another Project >>>Aquarius run by the Air Force. From information we have this >>>"other" AF Project Aquarius pertains to UFOs. >>But the documents were clearly a hoax so...? >>>In the case of >>>Majestic or Magic these are related to Mj12 and MAJIC or >>>Military Assessment Joint Intelligence Committee. >>The latter has surely been made up within the second batch of >>fake documents? There was actually a Military Assessment Joint Intelligence Committe. I recall seeing some actual documents produced by them... non-UFO stuff that is. In a document that came from the Paperclip files their is reference to MJ-12 Note the crux of the issue is we have in essence two seperate sets of documents so to speak. We have documents with markings of MJ-12 and or MAJIC which directly connect to UFO/ET crash retrieval. These are of questionable origin, i.e. cannot be verified independently through official documents. For example finding an official, declassified document that links MJ-12 to crashed ETs/UFOs Then we have official declassified documents with MJ-12 or MAJIC on them that appear to have no connection to UFOS and none of the documents link to UFOS. Note I realize their are real docs out their, just none that have say MJ-12 and UFO/Roswell/ET on the same page with it. As to any 'definitive' answer on the subject, unless and until somebody finds some 'real' documents that link MJ-12 directly to crashed UFO/ET we only have speculation and circumstancial evidence at _best._ For some speculation, it has been speculated that the MJ-12 program has actually changed codewords and is in fact under another codeword name... which is why nobody can find any docs on MJ-12. But again idle speculations and theorys that have no evidence to back them up. For another thought, all of the MJ-12 docs that connect to UFOS have originated in or out of Alburqurque, NM. The original Eisenhower briefing doc had an Alburqurque post mark, not to mention many if not all of the other docs Tim Cooper received. One of the documents Len Springfield published in one of his last monographs, which was the alleged official air accident report on Roswell supposedly came from Alburqurque. As I recall Woods have gotten most of the docs from Cooper. The theory their is Condor/Falcon is the one endlessly leaking documents. Allegedly Bill Moore's OSI disinformation plot directed against UFO researchers also originated out of Alburqurque. I would again point out that the MJ-12/MAJIC crashed UFO/ET is wrought with theories and speculations, not to mention documents arriving from persons unknown and so on. They could be 'real' and they could be the work of a Mark Hoffman type document counterfitter. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 EW: German Ufologist Debunks Bavarian Mystery From: Kurt Jonach <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 00:00:44 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:10:10 -0400 Subject: EW: German Ufologist Debunks Bavarian Mystery ------------------------------------------------------------ The Electric Warrior : Weblog April 9, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com ------------------------------------------------------------ =BB GERMAN UFOLOGIST DEBUNKS BAVARIAN MYSTERY LIGHTS ufo & extraterrestrial intelligence =BB artwork: It Came Out of the Sky http://www.electricwarrior.com/gallery/ewItCameOutSky.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - According to Ufologist Joachim Koch, the strange lights seen over Germany last weekend were the result of a large bolide meteor, which exploded in the atmosphere. A piece of debris, which was still luminous when it came down, fell into the garden of a Bavarian farmer's wife, who turned it over to the police. As told by Koch, "Preliminary analysis suggests it to be a piece of a meteorite." Reported by pilots and witnessed by thousands of people all over southern Germany, the event got Big Media attention all over the globe. According to Reuters, hundreds of panicked callers jammed police telephone lines seeking an explanation for the phenomenon. ------------------------------------------------------------ RELATED RESOURCES 08-Apr-02 Strange lights in the sky baffle Bavarians http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/04/08/germany.lights.reut/index.html (Reuters/CNN) - Pilots flying into Munich airport radioed the control tower with reports of unusual lights in the sky. The German police said NASA scientists initially thought the light was caused by space junk -- floating debris in the Earth's atmosphere -- but later said they were still unsure. ------------------------------------------------------------ THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR April 9, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com eWarrior@electricwarrior.com Artworks are created exclusively for the Electric Warrior Website. They can be downloaded and cached for individual use, but may not be reproduced or used in any other context without permission. The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. The content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:21:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:13:58 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Morris >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:11:06 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 09:46:30 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>>>THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT AND UFOs >>>>OFFICIAL HISTORY REVEALED >>>>By Georgina Bruni & Nick Pope >>It's a good way of avoiding the issues, really. What I am saying >>is that Georgina and Nick are/were not the first to discover >>these documents. Anyone making such a claim, and related claims, >>must expect to have their information challenged! >>Yes, of course they're right that these are important issues and >>yes they're right to address them. They are wrong to claim that >>they are the first/only people with this information. If I >>claimed to be the first, and to have exclusive material and I >>was wrong then I know that list members would right highlight >>this! >What's all this about? We never claimed anything of the sort. >What we have done is publish the documents, including >_Top_Secret_ documents, which have not been published before >(the publication of these _Top Secret_ documents was a genuine >world exclusive). We are not in competition with anybody: we are >trying to do a service to ufology. These documents are available >to all researchers, we just took the trouble to locate and >research them and then have them published. Other researchers >also have copies. One possibility is that these were published to divert attention away from Clarke and Robert's efforts in this regard and the "publication" is _not_ exclusive because they are already available on the internet, see: http://www.flyingsaucery.com Far more people will have looked at their site than the 10,000 people that read UFO Mag (UK). I'm interested in your remark that the "British Establishment" was involved in this. What you actually mean is that a handful of qualified people with a good track record in military and scientific matters looked into UFO reports for a brief time. That does NOT equate to the (whole, or part of) "british establishment" being involved, or in a cover-up. It is a bit naughty to leap from RV Jones, Tizard and friends to the veiled suggestion that there was more going on. Eric M
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 HBCC UFO: Report By USN [Retired] From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 23:48:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:16:40 -0400 Subject: HBCC UFO: Report By USN [Retired] Hi List Now here is a good case I am looking into right now. I received an email from a gentleman who severed aboard the USS Fort Mandan LSD 21 and told me he saw "exactly" what Mr. Chester Gruslinski witnessed back in 1958 when he served aboard the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt aircraft carrier. Below is the first email I received from this fellow. And below this a second email. I plan to telephone this gentleman to see what other information I can come up with. Take care Brian HBCC UFO --- First email: Hooray I am not blind as my CO called me in circa Feb 1952. I was on air watch aboard USS Fort Mandan LSD 21. We were located approx. 400 miles east of New Jersey on Maneuvers. I spotted exactly what Chester saw. I reported it as the Gondola of a Blimp. The CO said there were no Blimps within 500 miles. Then I heard him whisper Blind SOB!! The drawing Chester made of the UFO with windows is just what I saw. (name deleted by HBCC UFO) USN Retired Second email: As far as I can remember, and I do remember it well, it was a partly cloudy day, cold and windy. The surface was usual for the N. Atlantic, a little rough but not bad. I remember the clouds as I thought maybe I saw some weird kind of reflection of a Blimp from over the horizon, especially since they told me there was nothing on Radar and not a Blimp around. I still distinctly remember that it looked like a long Blimp Gondola and it had windows. I dis not see the Gas Bag, I figured a cloud covered it. I would estimate it at 1/2 to 3/4 miles away. I followed it a bit and then reported aircraft off the Port Beam. When I reported, I took my Binoculars off my eyes, After the report, I could no longer find the object. I figured it went into the clouds. I was on the bridge about 15 feet from the Captain about 65 feet above the water. Ten years ago I was stationed aboard USS Shadwell LSD 15 the same class and age ship and stood on the same spot and remembered that day. I never heard of a UFO so at the time,I merely believed that I had seen a blimp. I don't know of anyone else that saw it, however, This month I am going to a reunion of that ships crew so I will ask around. (name deleted by HBCC UFO) USN Retired
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 EW: Bavarian Mystery Lights - Update From: Kurt Jonach <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 02:19:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:20:00 -0400 Subject: EW: Bavarian Mystery Lights - Update EW Readers, This story has been (of course) a moving target. This version includes fresh updates out of Germany, and a tranlated excerpt from Spiegel Online. -eWarrior ------------------------------------------------------------ The Electric Warrior : Weblog April 9, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com ------------------------------------------------------------ =BB GERMAN UFOLOGIST DEBUNKS BAVARIAN MYSTERY LIGHTS ufo & extraterrestrial intelligence =BB artwork: It Came Out of the Sky http://www.electricwarrior.com/gallery/ewItCameOutSky.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - According to Ufologist Joachim Koch, the strange lights seen over Germany last weekend were the result of a large bolide meteor, which exploded in the atmosphere. A piece of debris, which was still luminous when it came down, fell into the garden of a Bavarian farmer's wife, who turned it over to the police. As told by Koch, "Preliminary analysis suggests it to be a piece of a meteorite." Reported by pilots and witnessed by thousands of people all over southern Germany, the event got Big Media attention all over the globe. According to Reuters, hundreds of panicked callers jammed police telephone lines seeking an explanation for the phenomenon. Some researchers say the trajectory of the meteor was not above the town near Munich, where the small stone was found in a garden. Holger Isenberg, another German researcher, reports "the fireball was definitely green," somewhat unusual for a meteor. ------------------------------------------------------------ RELATED RESOURCES 08-Apr-02 Strange lights in the sky baffle Bavarians http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/04/08/germany.lights.reut/index.html (Reuters/CNN) - Pilots flying into Munich airport radioed the control tower with reports of unusual lights in the sky. The German police said NASA scientists initially thought the light was caused by space junk - floating debris in the Earth's atmosphere - but later said they were still unsure. 08-Apr-02 Mit 200.000 Stundenkilometern =FCber Bayern http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,190800,00.html (Spiegel) - Nach Angaben ihres Schwiegervaters wollte die Frau gerade ihre kleine Tochter zu Bett bringen, als sie eine Lichterscheinung wie einen "Silvesterstern" in ihren Garten landen sah. Sie habe gedacht, Nachbarn h=E4tten sich einen Scherz erlaubt, und sich nicht weiter um die Angelegenheit gek=FCmmert. At 200,000 Kilometers per Hour Over Bavaria [Translation: The Electric Warrior] (Spiegel) As told by here father-in-law, the woman was presently putting her small daughter to bed, when she observed a bright optical phenomenon like a "Silver Star" land in her garden. She thought her neighbors had taken the liberty to play a joke, and wouldn't have worried any further about the affair. ------------------------------------------------------------ THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR April 9, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com eWarrior@electricwarrior.com Artworks are created exclusively for the Electric Warrior Website. They can be downloaded and cached for individual use, but may not be reproduced or used in any other context without permission. The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. The content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Voyager Newsletter No. 21 From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:45:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 10:31:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Voyager Newsletter No. 21 >From: James Easton <voyager@ufoworld.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Voyager Newsletter No. 21 >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 23:09:03 +0100 > Voyager Newsletter No. 21 >1. 'Alien Autopsy': The Origin Revealed?> >2. Socorro Update. >3. The Portage County [Ravenna], Spaur-Neff Case. >4. Kenneth Arnold and 'Little Tahoma'. With regard to determining the approximate distance of the "flying saucers" from Arnold, who claimed they were near the mountain tops, Easton has written" >There is key evidence, which I don't believe has previously been >highlighted in this context and it originates from several >sources, spanning many years. Extracting relevant data in >sequence we have: >"Mr. Arnold reported he was flying east at 2:50 p.m. Tuesday >toward Mt. Rainier when the objects appeared directly in front >of him 25-30 miles away at about 10,000 feet altitude". >"Mr. Arnold, who flies 60 to 100 hours monthly throughout five >western states, said he was 25-30 miles west of Mt. Rainier, en >route from Chehalis to Yakima, when he sighted the objects". >"He said he could estimate the distance of the objects better >because an intervening peak once blocked his view of them. He >found the peak was 25 miles away, he related". >"Mr. Arnold was flying a three-passenger, single-engined plane >at 9200 feet at the time, he reported". >Source: 'Pendleton, Oregon East Oregonian' - June 26, 1947 >"I was approximately 25 to 28 miles from Mt. Rainier...". >[Arnold doesn't mention the 'peak' in this interview - Editor] >Source: Radio Interview with KWRC, June 26, 1947 >"I observed them quite plainly, and I estimate my distance from >them, which was almost at right angles, to be between twenty to >twenty-five miles. I knew they must be very large to observe >their shape at that distance...". [Arnold doesn't mention the >'peak' in this letter - Editor] >Source: Letter to the Air Force, 1947 >"I determined my distance from their pathway to be in the >vicinity of twenty-three miles because I knew where I was and >they revealed their true position by disappearing from my sight >momentarily behind a jagged peak that juts out from the base of >Mount Rainier proper. Considering that I was flying all this >time in the direction of their formation, this determination can >be only approximately, but it is not too far off".> >Source: 'The Coming of the Saucers', 1952 >"And actually they disappeared behind a sharp projection on Mt. >Rainier in the snow field to my eyesight and since I knew >approximately where I was, flying of course toward the mountain, >I knew where they had passed. I thought my judgement and my >clocking could be within reasonable limits as to about how fast >they were going". >Source: Lecture at 'UFO Congress', 1977 The above statements concentrate on Arnold's claim that the objects momentarily went behind a peak. The thrust of the argument by Kottmeyer and presently by Easton is that the objects did not go behind a peak but rather turned sideways and were momentarily invisible because they were too thin to be seen. If this were true it would be amusing... and convenient... that each saucer, as it passed the same jagged peak, turned sideways as it passed the peak and momentarily disappeared. (Recall that they were traveling one after the other with some sizeable separation between them... about 5/8 mile on average). If the disappearance of the objects, one after the other, as they passed this peak, was due to them turning sideways and being too thin to see, then the claim that they were near the mountains would not be supported by the observational data and they could,therefore, have been closer to Arnold's plane and, perhaps, be close enough to be (gulp) _pelicans_!!!! Although Arnold clearly did refer to a particular peak, he also gave several other statements about the relationship between the objects and the mountain tops. From his Letter to the Air Force: "I watched these objects with great interest as I had never before observed airplanes flying so close to the mountain tops, flying directly south to southeast down the hog's back of a mountain range. I would estimate their elevation could have varied a thousand feet one way or the other up or down, but they were pretty much on the horizon to me which would indicate that they were near the same elevation as me. They flew like many times I have observed geese to fly in a rather diagonal chain- like line as if they were linked together. They seemed to hold a definite direction but rather swerved in and out of the high mountain peaks. I could quite accurately determine their pathway due to the fact that there were several high peaks a little this side of them as well as higher peaks on the other side of their pathway." In fact, Arnold did state that he could see them when the turned sideways: From the letter to the Air Force: "When the objects were flying approximately straight and level, they were just a black thin line and when they flipped was the only time I could get a judgement as to their size. These objects were holding an almost constant elevation; they did not seem to be going up or coming down, such as would be the case of artillery shells. I am convinced in my own mind that they were some type of airplane, even though they didn't conform with the many aspects of the conventional types of planes I know." From his book: "Even though they held a constant direction they swerved in and out of the high mountain peaks which are found on the hogback of the Cascade mountains between Mount Rainier and Mount Adams. I determined my distance from their pathway to be in the vicinity of 23 miles because I knew where I was and they revealed their true position by disappearing from my sight momentarily behind a jagged peak that juts out from the base of Mt. Rainier proper. Considering that I was flying all this time in the direction of their formation, the determination can be only approximate, but it is not too far off." "Between Mount Rainier and Mount Adams there is a very high plateau with quite definite north and south edges. Part of this chain-like formation traveled above this plateau toward Mount Adams, while part of the formation actually dipped below the near edge. As the first unit of these craft cleared the southernmost edge of this background, the last of the formation was just entering the northern edge. I later flew over this plateau in my plane and came to a close approxinmation that this whole formation of craft, whatever they were, formed a chain in the neighborhood of five miles long." Note that in the above statements he clearly indicates that the objects flew "in and out" of the mountain peaks south of Rainier and "part of the ...formation traveled above this plateau ... while part actually dipped below the near edge." This suggests that they weren't all at the same height. From his first radio interview: "They looked something like a pie plate that was cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear. Now, I thought, well, that maybe they're jet planes with just the tails painted green or brown or something, and I didn't think too much of it, but kept on watching them. They didn't fly in a conventional formation that's taught in our army, they seemed to kind of weave in and out right above the mountaintops, and I would say that they even went down into the canyons in several instances, oh, probably a hundred feet, but I could see them against the snow, of course, on Mt. Rainier and against the snow on Mt. Adams as they were flashing, and against a high ridge that happens to lay in between Mt. Rainier and Mt. Adams." They "went down into the canyons....." suggests that at least some of them were low enough when south of Rainier to momentraily disappear behind one or more of the "hogback' mountain peaks.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Clarke From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:14:00 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 10:36:54 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Clarke >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:21:58 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:11:06 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>What's all this about? We never claimed anything of the sort. >>What we have done is publish the documents, including >>_Top_Secret_ documents, which have not been published before >>(the publication of these _Top Secret_ documents was a genuine >>world exclusive). We are not in competition with anybody: we are >>trying to do a service to ufology. These documents are available >>to all researchers, we just took the trouble to locate and >>research them and then have them published. Other researchers >>also have copies. >One possibility is that these were published to divert attention >away from Clarke and Robert's efforts in this regard and the >"publication" is _not_ exclusive because they are already >available on the internet, see: Eric Morris is correct. The documents that Georgina and Nick are claiming to have published 'exclusively' were in fact discovered at the Public Record Office in 1999, by myself and Andy Roberts. The 'exclusive' documents published by UFO Magazine consist of 3 pages from the minutes of the Directorate of Scientific Intelligence. The remainder is the 'Flying Saucer Working Party' document that was recovered from the MoD archive as a result of our research early in 2001, as a check on the Updates archive from last year will demonstrate. Hardly 'exclusive' now, six months after the event! Selected extracts from the DSI documents were posted on the flyingsaucery.com in October 2001, shortly after the London Observer broke the story. Check out the 'MOD X-Files' section of our website at the following URL: http://www.flyingsaucery.com/mod/comment.htm There you will find that one extract contains the PRO reference DEFE 41/94 - precisely the same reference that Georgina used to access the documents published 'exclusively' in UFO Magazine. What a great piece of research that Georgina and Nick performed. It really must have taken some effort to copy down the reference from flyingsaucery, hop on a tube and check out the file at the PRO. Especially when all the hard work was done for them in advance! This is just a blatant example of the lies and plagiarism that is rife in this subject, referred to by Wendy Connors in her posting earlier today: >Just a casual mention would be the "theft and interference" >factor going on in the field of ufology. Many researchers find >their contributions being used by others who don't have the >courtesy to at least give the source for the material they use >on their websites, etc. This is one of the reasons I no longer >maintain a website. I didn't care if others wanted to copy >things from it for their own websites, but the majority that did >so didn't even give me a credit line when an article of mine >appeared on their site. Now we don't mind other researchers following up our research one bit - because imitation is of course a form of flattery. However, honest researchers usually credit the source of their information, at least in the form of a 'thank you' or an acknowledgement as to who supplied the original references. Georgina and Nick's source for this material was flyingsaucery.com but they simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge that _fact_ in public. I'll leave it to others to decide the motives behind this curious decision. Not only are sources not credited, but they simply don't deliver anything "new." In Nick Pope's Weird World he claims the UFO magazine article will contain: >New information about the wartime British Government's >attitude to foo fighter reports from the Royal Air Force. The "new" information consists of a single sentence from Professor R.V. Jones' book, "Most Secret War" that was published in 1978! Other "exclusives" include selected extracts from Ed Ruppelt's "Report on UFOs", a book originally published in 1956. The "full story of the Flying Saucer Working Party" is told without either Nick or Georgina having spoken to any of those who were involved in the study... hardly very 'full', unless one is talking about hot air. All highly amusing. Andy Roberts and I treasure the interview we did with Nick Pope in London in April, 2001 shortly after we received the first copy of the Flying Saucer Working Party Report. We pointedly asked Nick the following question: >DC: Do you know anything about the intelligence study >that was done in 1950-51? The answer we got was: >NP: Not a lot, no. I certainly haven't seen it. Clearly, once the amnesia wore off, Nick and Georgina had the time to hop on the bandwagon they saw approaching. If you'd like to read the facts, rather than a hastily constructed bootleg, then check out the following: *BBC Radio 4, 8pm 25 April: The RAF and UFOs, for the story of the British Government's Flying Saucer study, and the testimony of RAF pilots whose UFO encounters have never spoken before in public. *Out of the Shadows: UFOs, the Establishment and the Official Cover-up" by David Clarke and Andy Roberts is published by Piatkus, London, on 9 May 2002. Happy trails, Dave Clarke and Andy Roberts
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: The British Government & UFOS From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:08:31 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:05:31 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:18:23 -0500 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >>Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:51:10 -0600 >>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:12:02 -0600 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS <snip> >I think you speak volumes, however, when you say that most >researchers are pretty much mavericks. Maybe if there wasn't >such a _maverick_ attitude, there might be more cooperation >between researchers, and thus more might be accomplished. Hi Bobbie, Well, truth be told, there is a lot to be said of the loner or maverick researcher. They don't get bogged down in List rhetoric, etc. and get an awful lot accomplished. Again, it is this inherent difference between the types of researchers. The armchair researcher contributes from the position of reviewing the new information and assisting in passing it on to the mainstream (frontline), while the field researcher is involved in getting the new information (in the trenches), submitting it to peer review and preparing it for the armchair researcher. In reality, it takes a different kind of personality to dig the trenches, so to speak. Most researchers knowledge is gleaned from material already available (there is certainly nothing wrong with this and does not make a person any less a ufological researcher) because the armchair researcher usually does not have the time, money or inclination to do the "archelogical" work. It may sound elitist, but it takes a seasoned trench researcher to determine what is important and what is mediocre regarding new documentation, etc. It takes literally years to reach the point of being able to sift through tens of thousands of documents and pull the 100 pages of core documentation that is really relevant. I guess what I am saying to those who are either new to the field of ufology, or those who have gained their knowledge from years of following the literature, that crypto-aeronautics is like any other occupation or science. It takes a lot of book learning, on-the-job training and years of honing the skills to reach a "professional" level of expertise. Even then, there are great professionals and mediocre professionals in the field of crypto-aeronautics, just like there are in any profession. I'm pretty darn good at what I do, but I'm not fooling myself by believing for one iota that I don't have peers that can swim circles around me. That's why peer review is extremely important to the field researcher. In another vein, I can certainly understand why there seems to be animosity between the armchair researcher and the field researcher. It is just a part of doing business. Although the armchair researchers opinions are important, opinions don't really equate to what peer review offers in terms of professional expertise. I'll try to offer a humble example. A high school physics teacher would not be in a position to really offer peer review to Albert Einstein, solely because they have not reached the level of expertise needed to do so. Old Albert would enjoy conversing with the physics teacher and giving insight and clarity, listening to the teachers opinion, etc. but the opine given is still limited since it does not contain the nuance, etc. that comes from the greater insight of the old man himself and his peers (colleagues). Kinda the same in crypto- aeronautics in many respects. I cerainly lurk on UFO UpDates and other Lists and do pay attention to opinions expressed. But it's very infrequent that something expressed piques my curiosity, only because I've been around long enough that most everything being opined isn't new territory, just wrapped differently. Finally, there really is a lot of sharing and cooperating going on between researchers. But this is not fodder for email Lists. The "sub" world of crypto-aeronautics is vastly different than the "Ufology" of the mainstream researcher. Not exactly a closed society, but more a comradship based on mutual respect of each others research and expertise built by contributions to the overall knowledge base. <Snip> >Sounds like a job for a central database/digital record >repository. Have you ever looked at the BlackVault website? >That young man has spent mucho dollares to obtain the files he >has scanned and posted to his website. It has all been out of >pocket expense for him, and he started when he was only 15. I know many people, myself included, who have contributed to his >cause over the years for the simple reason that he makes every >bit of the data he collects, available online at no charge for >anyone who wants to look at it. He currently has over 103,000 >documents he has obtained via FOIA online for anyone and >everyone to read and/or use in their research. If you haven't >looked at the website, check it out when you get a minute: Ah, old John Greenewald ("Greenie"). Yep, I'm very familiar with him. When he first started out and his computer went to the nether region, I sent him a $30 contribution toward a new computer. Didn't receive so much as a thank you, but I still enjoy watching him do his thing. It is wonderful that he devotes time to post documentation for others to use. I'm not sure, but are you asking me if I think of John Greenewald as a ufologist? No. More a Fortean-type librarian of sorts. >Time to digitize and email, Wendy! :) Noble thought, Bobby. Unfortunately, like many others, I am only one person with an archive that fills an entire room and a rented locker. With only two hands I can only do so much each day and I'm one of the lucky people who can devote almost 90% of my time to crypto-aeronautics. Personally, I'm into cryto- aeronautics for my own joy and knowledge and not the needs, wants or desires of the mainstream. Considering I work alone, I think I've done quite a bit, not just in contributions to the knowledge base, but preservation and indexing of materials. Yes, I'm very computer literate, do digitize mountains of materials and am a techno-freak. <g> >The field abounds with rumors. Documented rumors. Get a good >enough program on your computer, and you can come up with some >pretty good looking documentation for rumors. I understand what >you're saying but in today's age of technology, I think rumors >are basically a dime a dozen. Why spread more? One can now go >to the archives of this List, read your post, and spread a >rumor far and wide that Dr. Hynek had alien debris in his >possession. Before it runs its course, if the internet holds >true to form, Dr. Hynek will have had an entire alien craft in >his garage with frozen alien bodies in his freezer. :) True. I won't take exception to what you've said. But, like I said, I'm a crafty old broad and there was method behind my madness by mentioning the "rumor." <g> Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Oft Mentioned Problem - White From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 12:28:41 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:08:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Oft Mentioned Problem - White Forwarding with Mr. Hale's permission: From: "roy.hale" <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> To: <raven1@nas.net> Subject: Data? Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 06:30:21 +0100 Hi Eleanor, I read your mail on UpDates. I send you the following link as an example of just one man's attempt to record Humanoid Contacts over the decades: http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/conthumanoid.html Best Regards, Roy.. Roy Hale is Web Master of The Lost Haven http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk And Editor of: Down To Earth Magazine.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Hale From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:35:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:10:14 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Hale >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:14:00 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs <Big Snip> >Eric Morris is correct. The documents that Georgina and >Nick are claiming to have published 'exclusively' were in fact >discovered at the Public Record Office in 1999, by >myself and Andy Roberts. Hi, Will someone please create an award section for this at the next big UFO Conference, I would imagine we would all like to see Dave & Andy pick up the trophy for this one. Roy.. Roy Hale is Web Master of The Lost Haven http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk And Editor of: Down To Earth Magazine. Articles On the UFO Subject, Buy On Line Research CDs, FREE Downloads, Business Marketing, Web Links, Art & Culture and much more!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 San Marino Symposium March 2002 From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:11:07 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:23:04 -0400 Subject: San Marino Symposium March 2002 To EBK and the List Here is my account of the last symposium at San Marino. It is free for reproduction, but thank you to advise me if you do so. The tenth symposium of UFOs at San Marino, which took place on March 9th and 10th, 2002, was organized like as in previous years by Dr Roberto Pinotti, sociologist and President of CUN (Centro Ufologico Nazionale), the main group for ufological research in Italy. It was hosted by the ministry of tourism of the little Republic of San Marino (at about 15 miles from Rimini on the Adriatic coast), to which we must pay tribute once again, because such an official sponsoring is unique in the world. This symposium also owes a lot to the vigour of ufology in Italy, first of all by the CUN, its president and its numerous participants. If we add that several other events take place each year in Italy, we can "measure" the backwardness of France, where scepticism is still so widespread. In fact, I made that the theme of my speech, while trying to conclude on an optimistic note, by mentioning the possible gradual release of secrecy. In spite of these difficulties, France was well "served" with two invited speakers, Jean-Jacques Velasco, of CNES/SEPRA, and myself. The presence of J.-J. Velasco was logical, owing to the theme of the symposium, "UFOs, Ufology and the institutional recognition". This year, the emphasis was put on the scientific study of UFOs, which is obviously an important aspect in order to be heard by the institutional sectors. This trend was reinforced by the fact that, for the third consecutive year, the symposium was preceded by another one, of a day and a half, devoted to SETI and the search of life in the cosmos. This one took place on Friday 8 and Saturday 9 morning, and it was followed by the symposium on UFOs on Saturday afternoon, so that astronomers and scientific speakers of both events were able to meet and appreciate each other. I saw one of the participants for SETI, an Irish astronomer working in Germany, expressing his surprise and satisfaction to physics professor Auguste Meessen, explaining to him that he had discovered the quality of SETI research only recently, and he was now discovering that there are also serious ufologists! Among the thirty-eight speakers invited for UFOs, it is interesting to note the presence of a Vatican astronomer, Father Juan Casanovas, coming after Father Corrado Balducci, theologian and demonologist from the Vatican, who had been present three years ago. We can also note, in the same vein, the presence of Father Coyne, Director, of the Vatican Observatory, in the film produced by the French TV network France 2, 'UFOs: The American Secrecy', which was shown in its Italian version on Saturday evening. It was its first showing in Italy and it was well received because it gave the impression of a new tone in the medias. Among the foreign guests, I have already mentioned professor Meessen, whose communication on the analysis of oscillatory movements of UFOs, was well in the line of this symposium. It was also the case for Richard Haines. Dr Haines, an American psychologist who has made his career at NASA, is now the head of a private group of inquiries for pilots' observations, the NARCAP ( National Aviation Reporting Centre on Anomalous Phenomena). We may recall that the goal of this non-profit association is to allow pilots to reveal incidents which present a risk for air safety, notably close encounters and "near misses" with UFOs, without putting their career in trouble. Richard Haines has cited a number of impressive cases, drawn from their files which contain more than 3,000 cases. It was also possible to learn interesting things in the corridors and during meals at the hotel hosting foreign speakers. I was able to ask Dr Haines how he felt about the peculiar role played by the association NIDS (National Institute for Discovery Science), created in Las Vegas by the wealthy businessman Robert Bigelow. Last year, NIDS had announced that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) had granted them the exclusivity of pilot's testimonies. This had obviously cut the ground from under the feet of NARCAP, and Richard Haines did not try to conceal his irritation. He even told me that they consider legal action because, according to a lawyer who had advised them, this monopoly granted to NIDS is illegal. Whatever the outcome, NARCAP remains the right door for pilots who wish to testify anonymously, and it is an open door worldwide. In fact, Dr Haines has made a good contact with the Italian pilot Roberto Doz, former Air force officer, who is himself head of an association in Italy. Another speech deserving a special mention was that of the young Dutch physicist Eltjo Haselhoff, President of the Dutch Centre for the study of crop circles. The research of Haselhoff is perhaps the most convincing, together with that of Nancy Talbot and the BLT Reseach Team, to bring tangible evidence, of real scientific value, about the reality of these formations, as phenomena of non-human origin. Very briefly, one of the main points studied by Haselhoff is the lengthening of stem nodes under the effect of heat, probably caused by electromagnetic radiation such as microwaves. These would come from a source not very high above the field, according to a mathematical model that he has been able to build from measurements made on plants at various positions on the ground. Incidentally, Haselhoff has received confirmation, from a very good source, that British researcher Colin Andrews had completely changed his opinion publicly after having been submitted to strong pressure. I wish to mention in passing a very interesting article on this subject, published in the British UFO Magazine of March 2002. Among the other speeches, which I cannot cite all of here, I would like to mention the one of my friend Boris Shurinov who described, with map and video, the observation of a huge UFO over the Moscow area on July 29, 2001. By comparing testimonies, it has been possible to evaluate its altitude at about 25 km, and its diameter between 200 and 250 meters, which reminds us of the observation of the French pilot, Captain Duboc, confirmed by radar, over the Paris area in 1994. Interesting observations were presented as well by Esen Sekerkarar, young Turkish woman who is vice-president of a very active association, since it has already organised its third symposium, and has also created a UFO museum in Istanbul. Michael Hesemann, from Germany, who was just back from the Laughlin UFO Congress in the United States (in Nevada), showed brief footage of military aerial viewings of alleged UFOs which had been discovered by a young Armenian, living in the Czech Republic, in the archives of his grandfather who had been a friend of Anastase Mikoyan, member of the Politburo under Stalin. There remains the question of trying to authenticate these films, and Mr Hesemann has lent a copy of them to Boris Shurinov to that end. We can trust Boris to be very cautious in his answer. On the Italian side, several speeches were of excellent scientific level, as Professor Meessen confirmed to me, and also told me that he had made some interesting contacts. For my part, I noted a young speaker, Enrico Baccarini, a psychologist who is member of CUN. He gave a very informative talk about the present technology of human made implants, and surgical operation through the nose, operations which remind us vividly of implants in abductee cases. He finished his account quoting the thesis of Dr Lammer and his book 'MILAB', on military interventions. The question remains open, it seems to me, to know if it is a matter of surveillance operations, very secret of course, of true abductees, or if they are purely and simply military experiments aiming at the development of a technology of remote control of individuals, which George Orwell had not even dreamed of! Until we have proof of the contrary, I prefer to lean toward the first explanation! A special mention is in order for the communication of Italo- American Paola Leopizzi Harris who showed a curious educational program for children ('ABC News for Kids'), which can be seeen at the ABC Network web site. It is called 'Alien Secrets' and it gives the definite impression that an effort is under way, discretely, to accustom the public little by little, notably the young people, to the extraterrestrial presence. At the end of this interesting symposium, Roberto Pinotti delivered his personal testimony. During his military service in 1972, as a Second Lieutenant, on a NATO base, he was member of a small group of officers who shared an interest in UFOs. One day, an American officer confided to them that, not only had the Americans recovered crashed craft, but also extraterrestrial bodies. Let's point out here that, at that time, nobody had the faintest idea about the Roswell crash, as inquiries didn't start before 1978 with the testimony of former Major Jesse Marcel. I consider that it's one more testimony but convincing nevertheless, about the reality of deep secrets in the United States. On such testimonies, may I suggest reading my last book in French 'UFOs: the Gradual Release of Secrecy' (OVNIs : la lev=E9e progressive du secret, 2001). Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Hutchinson From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:01:44 -500 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:33:02 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Hutchinson >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:51:10 --0600 <snip> >Project 1947 and SIGN Historical Group members routinely >contribute their research to be put on-line. This will sound >"elitist," but it really isn't, that most researchers are >pretty much mavericks in thier endeavors and for a number of >reasons. Among these reasons is that research is usually >on-going and not ready for release to the entire field. Thus, >many of us share portions of our research with a select few in >order to obtain peer review, which cannot be done via email >opine lists. >There is a process among the SHG, for example, that allows >research to be shared and stored so that it won't be lost due >to the individualism factors among researchers. On-going >research is usually published in the International UFO >Reporter, etc. in order to introduce it to the field. >Researchers who do not have the time or funds to do field >research can keep up to date by subscribing to CUFOS' >International UFO Reporter, visiting the P-47 and SHG websites >or individual researchers who have the time to maintain their >own websites. >Unfortunately, there is not a funding source adequate enough >to handle the needs of researchers or maintain, in total, the >files built by researchers. At least not yet. It would seem to me that the only real roadblock to a consolidation of research files is a consensus of the format, rules for publication, and (I don't mean to insult anyone here) personal pride. Money is not an issue- it is there for the asking. Laurence Rockefeller and Joe Firmage immediately come to mind. But no one who has that kind of money will not release sufficient amounts of it without first seeing a firm business plan and an agreement from broad cross-section of researchers. I suspect that if a solid business plan can be built, you would also be able to count on some funding from publishers and other interested individuals as well. The technology for a powerful research database already exists, and it would relatively easy to build it once the format and rules have been agreed upon (which is where the _real_ work will be done). This research engine could be designed not only to house vast amounts of data, but link to other systems (such as MUFON, Blackvault, etc) and index their data as well. I have helped build several of these types of data vaults and retrieval systems, and while the process is not easy, it can be done. To provide a little additional motivation for such a project: If you really wish to get Science to seriously consider UFOology, availability of such a database would be a major inducement. >Most all researchers I know of who are coming forth with new >documentation and information, do so with expenditures out of >their own pocket. Thus, another reason why much new information >is not immediately shared with the field in total. When a >person spends a great deal of money to obtain important >documentation, etc., they think twice before giving it out >without being able to recoup some of what they have expended. >Personally, I find nothing wrong with this. Seems to me that >the person who put the effort and shouldered the expense, >deserves maintaining and controlling their information flow. That may seem a logical reason for holding back information, but it is also a prime reason for the incredible fragmentation and confusion that exists in UFOology today. Again speaking from experience, you cannot manage a business - or a research effort - when the required data is not available, incomplete, or out of date. If you and your fellow researchers would consider your time and money as _contributions_ as opposed expenses, your collective interests would be much better served. While you have indeed expended much in the way of your own time and money, so have many, many others. Pool that collective effort, rather than hide it, and I think you will be far happier with the results. Again, bringing up the carrot, this is generally (but not always!) how science works. >Just a casual mention would be the "theft and interference" >factor going on in the field of ufology. Many researchers find >their contributions being used by others who don't have the >courtesy to at least give the source for the material they use >on their websites, etc. So what? This has been the norm in Science, Medicine, etc for centuries. But with proper management and the development of a Code of Conduct among professional researchers, this should not be a problem. If you get together on this, within a relatively short time most people will be able to differentiate the serious from the cranks, just as you do when reading about science, politics, medicine, etc. <snip> >Nothing is being lost like in years past, but much new >information is kept from the mainstream for many of the above >reasons. Yes, I admit it seems elitist, this war of words, >among armchair researchers and field researchers. But it is >impossible for the armchair researcher to have a grasp of the >minute that is inherent in research done in the field. Armchair Researchers. This brings up a subject that has bugged me for years. Most UFO researchers don't realize this, but they are _wholly_ dependant on the opinions of the typical Armchair Researcher! There does not exist in the field of UFOology any other method of evaluating, correlating, and validating the data collected by you and your fellow field researchers. Whether you like it or not (and evidently, you do not), you would do well to listen to their opinions and learn from their insights. Why? Because of the lack of a Peer Review system in UFOology (or any other paranormal subject). I am not talking about the Believer-Debunker division that current exists, but an internal review of data among fellow researchers. With very few exceptions, the research, evaluations and conclusions of a UFO researcher is in general blindly accepted by everyone else within The Community as Valid- without any attempts to first review the data, analyze the methodology, or critique the reasoning. Instead of a subjective review, the Wagon Circle is immediately put in place to defend the Researcher from the inevitable attacks from the Debunkers, and the weapons generally favored here have little to do with the data, and everything to do with protecting a fellow researcher, right or wrong. (The Debunkers, by the way, do appear to have an ad hoc Peer Review system in place in that they are far more willing to share data, and critique the evaluations of their "colleagues"- something from which UFO Researchers should learn and profit by.) Because you isolate yourselves and your research, the result is that much gets published that is easily targeted by Debunkers. The best examples are all the myriad books published on The Roswell Incident. Roswell researchers did not subject their data and conclusions to Peer Review among themselves, so much was printed that later research proved to false, or conflicted wildly with the data of others. Indeed, it would appear that your rule is; critique of colleagues is generally Not Allowed by anyone within the Researcher community. As a result, your published works are often easy pickings for Debunkers. Of course, once the Debunkers have had their say, it is time for the rebuttals, and the endless game of Point- Counterpoint begins- a game that rarely has any winners. Enter the Armchair Researchers. By default, they are the _only_ ones left who can provide a semblance of balanced review. By definition, the A/R generally is well read on the subject, and (s)he will usually (but not always!) take the time to read both sides, review collateral documentation, and correlate the data and conclusions with other cases. Once that process has been "completed", the A/R will sometimes publish their opinions, often to the derisive, but unjust taunts from either or both sides. No- the A/R is not neutral- much of the time (s)he is far from neutral! But, by default, the Armchair Researcher is the _only_ review mechanism currently available to UFOology! This is by no means a perfect system, but it is all you have. So rather than denigrating them, you should listen to the A/Rs with rapt attention, until you can get your own act together. Regards, Bruce Hutchinson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Comet Cometh After 341-Year Absence From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:41:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:35:34 -0400 Subject: Comet Cometh After 341-Year Absence Excerpt - full article at: http://www.nature.com/nsu/020402/020402-3.html] Last seen during the reign of Charles II, Comet Ikeya-Zhang (pronounced ee-KAY-uh JONG) is gracing our skies this month. This week, after an absence of 341 years, it is giving something of a special performance. The comet, the brightest since Hale-Bopp in 1997, will appear with another leading light between today and Friday only. Its trajectory will seem to graze the Andromeda nebula - a giant spiral galaxy much like our Milky Way, which looks like a star from Earth.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 9 Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:39:40 -0400 Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance These topics have been part of many recent posts. No. 1, mainstream acceptance requires a purging of New Age nonsense and a careful presentation of hardcore data to opinion makers in society. Even then, the anti-UFO biases are very strong and I am not holding my breath. It is not the public-at- large so much that sneers at UFOs (polls show otherwise) as it is alleged scientists who remain blissfully ignorant of the serious data, and fear for their reputations. No. 2, I am very disappointed that the detailed data compilation and analysis that I included in The UFO Evidence, Volume II (now out for just over a year) has not gotten around and received positive reviews where they might do some good (great reviews on Amazon.com), and few people that matter seem to have read it. The book shows very strong patterns based on ample documentation, which could (should) be persuasive, but the book is pricey (beyond my control) and it is obvious to me by the tone of many posts on this List that very few of you have actually read or studied it. It was a struggle even to find a publisher, and to this date neither the sponsors (UFO Research Coalition) nor I have received one penny of royalties from it. The first royalty statement is due in July, three-fourths to the Coalition and one-fourth to me. Sorry, I can't be too sympathetic to people who complain about not being catered to with UFO information at their whim because they are poor or not part of the alleged 'elite'. Anyone who thinks I am even moderately 'wealthy' has not visited my home. Many of us bust our butts to do the best research we can, publish it or distribute it any way we can, and then take a lot of flack for not providing our work free to any armchair `buff' who wants it while sinking ever deeper into debt. Sign me, Pissed in Brentwood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:37:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:04:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 +0000 >Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance <snip> >No. 2, I am very disappointed that the detailed data compilation >and analysis that I included in The UFO Evidence, Volume II (now >out for just over a year) has not gotten around and received >positive reviews where they might do some good (great reviews on >Amazon.com), and few people that matter seem to have read it. >The book shows very strong patterns based on ample >documentation, which could (should) be persuasive, but the book >is pricey (beyond my control) and it is obvious to me by the >tone of many posts on this List that very few of you have >actually read or studied it. <snip> Hi Richard. I checked Amazon.com, and they have an offering of your UFO Evidence, Volume II. Hardcover edition - $47.96. I think most people realize that the cover price is beyond your control and don't blame you personally for it. But allow me to interject a bit of reality here. For the sake of simplicity, let us round up the price to an even $48. Add to that shipping cost of, say, $5. That brings our total to the neighborhood of $53. Not a bad buy for an excellent work such as I'm sure this book is, but the reality of life is that the same $53 spent for that would buy diapers for a month for a child, pay a phone bill, pay an internet bill, pay half of a light bill, almost cover the daycare cost for a week, put gas in the car for a week, put groceries on the table for a week, etc. Pick any one of the above and you have a good reason why someone would not own a copy of your Volume II. Sad, but true, that some people simply have to set priorities in their financial affairs. And covering the baby's butt is generally considered more important than buying books about UFOs so one can read and study UFO related data. I personally would like to have a copy of your book to go with the Volume I that I have. And one day, when there is a copy listed on ebay at a reasonable rate that fits in with my budget at the time, I'll get a copy. That's not a snub; it is simply reality. It isn't something to get pissed about. Life simply is what it is :) Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 18:28:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:37:54 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS >Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:08:31 -0600 >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:18:23 -0500 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOS - Felder <snip> >The "sub" world of crypto-aeronautics is vastly different than >the "Ufology" of the mainstream researcher. Not exactly a closed >society, but more a comradship based on mutual respect of each >others research and expertise built by contributions to the >overall knowledge base. We have a term around here that we use to describe political officials who have basically their own "sub" world of comradship that is rarely visible in the mainstream. We call it "back room good ole boy politics", and it has been the scourge of the South for over 200 years now. It is slowly going away, thank God. I guess all us non- professionals can do is hope that the same happens in "crypto- aeronautics" one day. :) Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to participate in this discussion. It has been most enlightening :) Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Virginia Davey <vmdavey@idirect.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 23:15:57 -0400???? Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:38:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 +0000 >Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Sorry, I can't be too sympathetic to people who complain about >not being catered to with UFO information at their whim because >they are poor or not part of the alleged 'elite'. Anyone who >thinks I am even moderately 'wealthy' has not visited my home. >Many of us bust our butts to do the best research we can, >publish it or distribute it any way we can, and then take a lot >of flack for not providing our work free to any armchair `buff' >who wants it while sinking ever deeper into debt. Dear Dick, All, Forgive me, but don't you think you are getting pissed-off at the wrong people? Those of us who can only take a passive interest in the subject are on your side. We are your audience. I understand and sympathize with your frustration, especially in light of your huge contribution to the field, a contribution that represents thousands of hours of work with little to no remuneration. Would it not be better to express that frustration without resorting to terms such as "catered to" and "armchair 'buff'"? We should save that ammunition for debunkers. Don't you agree? Virginia Davey Toronto
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance From: Will Buech=E9 <willb3d@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:48:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:41:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 +0000 >Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance Richard Hall wrote "mainstream acceptance requires a purging of New Age nonsense and a careful presentation of hardcore data to opinion makers in society." Depends on what you mean by "New Age nonsense", but if you mean (for example) everything that experiencers describe as being what they've _learned_ from their experiences, then that would be going too far. The only reliable instrument for learning about these experiences that we know of is from people's reports, and whatever insights they may have should be examined (preferably the general trends, not individual reports) and presented. But I grant you, any material that comes from many people with different levels of education and backgrounds could benefit from some informed commentary. Their descriptions of interactions may use some "new age" terms, but from there it is up to people with backgrounds in theoretical physics or other fields to interpret what the experiencers are describing into the more precise language that you advocate. As a start, could someone please attempt to interpret what is meant by "vibration" (as in "the beings seem to come from another level of reality, entering our reality by lowering their vibration to match ours")? Even experiencers wince when they have to resort to using that term, but it is as close as they can get to describing what they've learned. The term "vibration" has been kicking around the sixties, hasn't it? And still no translation from the noble scientists? All this so-called New Age-talk, far from being babble, is an admirable attempt to describe things. I have no doubt that if someone described something as huge, blue, wet and salty, some learned person could say, hey, that's an ocean. But when it comes to this phenomenon, it seems some people would rather study photos of frisbees than enlist people from different disciplines to apply their scientific language to the language of the greater public. I am ranting at more than Hall here (as I said at the start, I don't know quite he meant to condemn). So I'll continue, trusting that everyone understands this is just a rant. As there is essentially no physical evidence, the concentration of research into physical evidence has resulted in fifty years of failure. That has done great damage to the general acceptance of the phenomenon. You want to win public acceptance? Begin by admitting that maybe there isn't any physical evidence, and further, that the fifty years of failure was therefore likely due to not asking the right questions, not taking a different approach. Not applying the right skills, or drawing on the right disciplines. Perhaps by hard-core data, Hall meant statistical information, and if so I must apologize for using his message as the inspiration for this rant. But I just want to suggest that a fifty year search for physical evidence of an experience that may not even be _capable_ of leaving physical evidence is a reason, possibly THE reason, that has caused some people to dismiss the experiences. (Not capable of leaving physical evidence? What do I mean? As an example: Give me a piece of the future, would you? Hand it to me. You can't? Gee, but I am pretty sure the future exists...but I guess not. No proof. If we're talking something interdimensional here, I expect we'd be facing similar situations, of interactions that leave no evidence).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 01:45:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:43:42 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:14:00 +0100 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >This is just a blatant example of the lies and plagiarism that >is rife in this subject, referred to by Wendy Connors in her >posting earlier today: Oh dear. This is precisely the sort of post that I thought the recent suspension of UpDates was supposed to deter. For the record, the article that Nick Pope and I wrote for the April issue of UFO Magazine is nothing to do with any work done by Dave Clarke and Andy Roberts. We have worked hard on this story. I have been obtaining information and documents from the Ministry of Defence for several years, using the Code of Practice on Access to Government Information. Similarly, MOD employee Nick Pope and I have done work at the Public Record Office. We did not obtain the PRO file numbers from Clarke and Roberts' website, as they claim, but from the Ministry of Defence. I don't know what lies behind Clarke and Roberts' intemperate remarks, but I suspect it boils down to one thing: our UFO Magazine article and Clarke and Roberts' forthcoming book probably cover similar ground, but UFO Magazine published first. The fact that recent posts from Clarke and Roberts are almost exclusively aimed at plugging their book tend to bear this out. We are willing to discuss the article in a civilised way, but will not be drawn into a slanging match with Clarke and Roberts et al, who have made wild accusations and used selective quotes, as is typical of their debunking tactics. Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Bill Chalker <bill_c@bigpond.com> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:02:33 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:45:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 +0000 >Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:39:40 -0400 >Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance Dear List, While I haven't posted a review of Richard Hall's book "The UFO Evidence Volume II" at my site as yet, due to a severe lack of time and other committments I have posted a brief comment on it in the opening index page of my site: http://www.theozfiles.com/ "The UFO Evidence - Volume II - a thirty-year report" by Richard Hall, is without doubt one of the best reviews of the UFO phenomenon, in the last decade - "a natural history of UFOs" - a worthy successor to the first classic volume from 1964. While the book is expensive, it is definitely worth your support, and is a must read for researchers, skeptics and interested parties alike. Miss a visit to the restaurant, that next video, CD or book purchase. Get this instead. You won't regret it. Bill Chalker http://www.theozfiles.com/ The OZ files web site is a repository for my research into the Australian UFO controversy and includes major documents such as "UFOs Sub Rosa Down Under", the DNA investigations of biological evidence implicated in UFO abduction events, Australian UFO history (including a "UFO vision" in 1868-1873, Australian aboriginal culture and possible UFO connections and early Australian historical encounters (pre-1947), physical trace evidence (including the famous 1966 Tully UFO "nest" affair) and "editorial essays" (including UFOs - a shamanic connection). http://www.bananatv.com/ The Banana TV site is an internet TV venture. The "People and Passions" channel has the "UFO" show co-compered by Doug Moffett and myself. New programmes will be added as they become available. Current available programmes include abductions, a 2 part interview with Kelly Cahill, a discussion and tour through a UFO museum exhibition addressing the impact of UFOs on art, culture & science.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Sceptibuking At Its Worst From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:20:32 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:43:10 -0400 Subject: Sceptibuking At Its Worst Illusration Of Sceptibuking At Its Worst Hello, all. The mind of a sceptibunker laid bare: http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins040902.as First, I am not a big fan of National Review (talk about 'elite') but, this article has the classic illustration of the mind of a scepti-bunker. The author saw the plane hit the Pentigon, people died. yet there is a French author who says it didn't happen. At least he didn't blame flocking Pelicans. The sceptical book is getting play in its home country. Never mind many people saw the plane hit the Pentigon, including the author of this atrticle. This is truly in the league of Holocuast denial. GT McCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Chilean UFO and Chupacabras Victim - Update From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 21:00:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:46:06 -0400 Subject: Chilean UFO and Chupacabras Victim - Update Chilean UFO and Chupacabras Update - Including the First Human Victim From Dr. Virgilio S=E1nchez-Ocejo Miami UFO Center ufomiami@prodigy.net 4-9-2 CHUPACABRAS FRIGHTENS MINING WORKERS April 9 of 2002 Workers of the local mining company of BSK are frightened due to allegations of a presumed chupacabras attack of an employee during the night shift, in the Escondida mining project area. The alleged attack took place a few weeks ago and it involved a warehouse worker. The chilling incident occurred in the middle of a cold night at about 3 AM. The worker, as it was said, walked toward a container used as a cellar as he was looking for a spare part. Suddenly, the nightshift silence was interrupted as he was attacked by a beast from behind, causing several wounds to his body and leaving him in a state of shock. Terrified, he began to run searching for help. He finally was able to reach two other employees who were able to see in the shadows of the dark warehouse what they described as a "chupacabras". The storekeeper received medical attention, and it is said that him and the two other workers have refused to go back to work. The remaining of the local workers expressed concern and fear regarding the alleged attack. They refuse to work alone in order to prevent being attacked. THE CHUPACABRAS REAPPEARED IN A HENHOUSE Monday 8 of April of 2002 An alleged " Chupacabras " creature left its footprint in a henhouse. The news about the supposed apparition spread controversy in the region. Until now, nobody wants to admit the presence of a strange being that destroys its victims with an apparent incredible force. However, at least among the population in the neighborhoods in Santa Clara, the controversial creature, or something similar, made its presence well known in the sector of Talcahuano. Furthermore, in recent days, several chicken cages and henhouses have been partially destroyed, and along with them, several chickens. Despite the silence of local authorities, the evidence is clearly there. Hern=E1n Pino, one of the villagers, stated that several officers form the second police station and many neighbors have arrived to the area because they are concerned about the gruesome events that have recently occurred. According to the locals, the village of Talcahuano had never witnessed cases involving domestic animal mutilations. They expressed concern because they are unable to determine what has caused the deaths of their animals. Referring to the presence of the " Chupacabras " in the northern area, particularly in Calama and its surroundings, one neighbor stated: "We have heard of these things and how they happen often in those communities, but we always thought that it was just wild dogs involved. However, after seeing these horrendous mutilations, after learning how this creature is able to break into metallic fences and henhouses built with steel, we are convinced that it is not a dog.' Until now, there have not been any official statements or declarations by the authorities regarding what happened. There is a silence and lots of fear among the population's neighbors of Santa Clara. The mystery of the mutilated hens is increasing. Not even customs officers have spoken about it. Nevertheless, the neighbors have request protection, because they say that somebody or something is haunting and stalking them. CHUPACABRAS APPEARS IN NORTHERN ARGENTINA April 1, 2002 Despite of the modest amount of Chupacabras sightings these last days in the town of The Tonco, northern Argentina, the inhabitants are afraid they will begin to see a mass wave domestic animal mutilations, just like the events that happened during the year 2000 in Calama, Chile. According to Juan Carlos Chavez, commissary of the regional unit of Cafayete, the nightmare that affected Chile during that time, to which it caused reactions throughout the world, may happen in his region; therefore, he has set up a community-wide alert. "The presence of the mythical creature in this rural area belonging to the municipality of Payogasta, is tied to a wave of recent UFO sightings", he said during a local news interview. "We are linking these facts. 10 years ago an intense investigation began in places where ufos and this creature appeared. Nevertheless, until now, we have not found as much evidence as the cases that happen in Chile", Chavez said. He also stated that contrary to chupacabras apparitions in Calama, in northern Argentina, the creature appears to be less aggressive. According to some eyewitnesses, it avoids contact with humans as much as possible. Nevertheless, residents are still worried because of what happened in Calama. They fear that their livestock will also be attacked. He explained that a police commission will intensively investigate the phenomenon for a month. Three local eyewitnesses, who had the unpleasant experience of seeing the alleged chupacabras creature, corroborated with an amazing description. The all concurred that it is a terrifying being, half man and half animal. They also said that it stands about 1.7 meters in height (about 5ft 6in.), it has red eyes, sharp teeth, long upper extremities ending with long and sharp claws, and a body that is fully covered with hair. "I was walking with my dogs and my livestock when suddenly, something alerted the animals. The being was about 12 meters away from me. As soon as I saw it, it left very rapidly, leaping three times. It jumped very high. I was astonished", said Maria Rufino, a 73-year-old farmer. The other two eyewitnesses, Santos Jaimes (30) and Ruben Colque (34), said that they also met face to face with the creature. "We were paralyzed with fear and panic. It was a horrible looking being. Its feet had some kind of hooves, but with a ram behind them. We are in alert", they said. CALAMA UNDERGROUND FIRES STILL OUT OF CONTROL The bizarre underground fires in Calama are still out of control. They have been ongoing for about four months. It is said that the "underground catastrophe" began when local residents started a bonfire back on early December, near the area of Cerro Negro, in the west side of the city. Aside from the sporadic and highly toxic smoke, the situation has also caused the place to become an imminent hazard for the pedestrians and children. A person can actually fall and sink into the collapsing hot ground near the fires. Patricio Sandoval, the Fire Department Chief of Calama admitted that the fire department has not come up with a solution to extinguish the notorious fires. He also stated that there is a strong presence of highly toxic and explosive methane gas. The affected area is very close to populated neighborhoods. According to Sandoval, the fire is too deep and it is very difficult for fire fighting equipment to reach the base of the fire. The chief admitted that it is very difficult to fight fires as unconventional as these. Contrary to the fire department statements, the Regional Office of Emergencies stated that the situation was "under control" by the firemen. However, they still do not have an explanation as for why they have not been able to put the fires out. PERUVIAN UFOLOGIST PREDICTED EXTRATERRESTRIAL CONTACT IN CHILE 24 people allegedly crossed an interdimensional gateway in broad daylight and in front of hundreds of eyewitnesses. SANTIAGO, CHILE - April 02, 2002. According to several eyewitnesses, twenty-four people went trough an interdimensional travel experience during an International Congress of Extraterrestrial Contact. The event took place in the Cipreseses River National Reservoir, in the city of Rancagua, Chile. In tents, the selected group of people was able to enjoy numerous outdoors activities; among them, three lectures, one of them by the famous Peruvian ufologist Sixto Paz. In spite of the interest by the national news media, the place could be kept secret in order to avoid the massive presence of snoopers that occurred in previous occasions. Extraterrestrial contact Last month, during an interview with Terra Chile, the Peruvian ufologist and contactee Sixto Paz, announced that a very significant event that would include extraterrestrial contact would happen in Chile during the end of March or beginning of April. Chilean ufologist Camilo Valdivieso stated that the expectations for such event grew even greater due to strange phenomena that has been taken place lately, particularly, during the night on Saturday, March 29, when many eyewitnesses saw several lights in the sky. According to one spectator, "they were as bright as giant light bulbs". "These types of UFO sightings", said Valdivieso, "were announcing that something was going to happen. During the previous days when the contact took place, the people involved in the teleportation were suddenly aware about the existence of the interdimensional gateway or Xendra. They somehow learned that through this door, they would have managed to establish contact with supposed extraterrestrial beings". One eyewitness said, "It's like seeing a person disintegrate in front of your eyes". So far, no one has mentioned if the alleged event was captured by video or photography. Upon learning that his prediction came true, Sixto Paz said he was very glad, but he did not issue any statements. Christian Riffo M. www.ovnivision.cl Last Month's Article about Sixto Paz's Prediction: PERUVIAN UFOLOGIST SAYS CHILEANS WILL SOON HAVE EXTRATERRESTRIAL CONTACT During a recent UFO expo in Chile, Peruvian Ufologist Sixto Paz announced that Chileans would soon have contact with Ets. The expert, who presently is conducting studies about UFO sightings in the area of Quintero, announced, "what is about to happen this month will resonate world-wide; that is why many investigators from different countries have arrived to this country". Referring to what had occurred in Quintero, Paz claimed that he and about 100 other eyewitnesses have already made contact with the Ets. "We saw a ship that landed in front of our eyes, with beings standing at about 2 meters in height, wearing shiny body suits", said Paz. Sixto Paz is currently touring the country of Chile and exhibiting what he claims to be evidence of extraterrestrial life. As for the alleged contact with extraterrestrial beings, he did not indicate the exact day of when it will happen. FRIENDSHIP: THE CHILEAN ISLAND OF HEALING AND MYSTERIOUS BEINGS By Carolina Uribe Assef The south of Chile is surrounded by mysteries and myths. One of them is about an island that is supposedly inhabited by extraterrestrials or people that unlike ordinary human beings, posses a vast amount of knowledge in the fields of science, aeronautics, physics, mathematics, and medicine. The name of the island is "Friendship" and it is located in an island complex called Kent. According to the legend, it is very hard to find. Some of the villagers that live nearby call the people form Friendship Island "angels", because according to descriptions, they are tall, blond-haired, they have blue eyes, and they dress up with strange-looking clothes. Some claim that they speak using a "spiritual tone". Furthermore, there are some that will actually offer the villagers to be taken to the mystery island to "get to know it", and at the same time, to get cured from illnesses that ordinary medicine cannot cure. According to people that claim to have had contact with these strange characters, they were taken to the island by boats that they call "Mitylus". Many locals in the southern port of Montt have actually seen the boats, as they depart with the ill onboard to be taken to the island and receive their miraculous treatment. Some have claimed that the "Friendship People" actually may have up to seven "bases" around the world that may include: the south of Chile, Europe, Central America, the Bermuda Triangle, the United States, Africa and East Asia, which would also be intended for the purpose of "curing people". The stories of the people who supposedly have visited "Friendship" to be healed, began in the Eighties, when Octavio Ortiz in 1984, accidently listened to an emergency radio transmission from a boat from the Oceanography Department of the University of Chile. The ship apparently tried to communicate with the port authorities of Iquique because a mysterious light appeared in front of the vessel. The strange object began to descend onto the boat and radiated a great amount of light, which allegedly caused hair-loss to some sailors. Octavio later found out from an engineer named Ernesto de la Fuente, who apparently knew "white men" that claimed to belong to a congregation called Friendship. The commotion of the sighting that happened in 1984 resonated so much that the director of the Civil Aeronautical Department, Sergio Pinero, ordered an investigation. According to the official report, the radar observed an unidentified object located at about 20 NM west of the radio beacon of Tabon. The report of the Department of Aeronautics concluded that "the events of that day continue to remain unexplained". But what are these "Friendship" people looking for? "The inhabitants of this mysterious island choose carefully who to contact after a trial period of visits to the island", this according to Hugo Pacheco, veteran investigator of the subject. According to the investigative group AION, whose president is Rodrigo Fuenzalida, the island is not being inhabited by beings of other planets, but rather by people that began an experimental project that dates back before World War II. Their report assures that a document from the intelligence services in Chile, cites government information mentioning the presence of the mysterious inhabitants of the island. The report also mentions that the arrival of this "religious community" to this country took place twenty years ago and it began in the desert of the Third Region, but due to the lack of water, the project was transferred to the south of Chile, creating one of the biggest and most controversial mysteries of recent years. UFO INVESTIGATOR VISITS ARICA TO STUDY ABDUCTION CASES "Arica is one of the areas with more UFO sightings in the Chile and with one of the most relevant cases", said Cristian Riffo, journalist and director of the UFO Investigative Group Ovnivision, who along with a television crew form Megavision spent the weekend in the city gathering testimonies from UFO eyewitnesses. "The interior of Arica and the area of the Lago Chungara have always been present in reports of UFO sightings, especially last year", he said. "There are many cases of truck drivers that have seen objects leaving or landing in Arica. There was a sighting published during that time, of some security guards that were at the lake and reported one of those objects, but we found it very hard to find them because they rotate their shifts and they weren't here this weekend. If we could just find these people, I'd like to interview them, so I will be back after the Passover break and hopefully, I'll have better luck. It's very difficult to study these cases without the original eyewitness testimonies. Although, we couldn't find the guards, I did speak with the person that reported the sighting over the radio. But this it is nearly the first stage of the investigation and we will return", said Riffo. Riffo also announced the upcoming book of Officer Armando Valdes, a local military veteran who was allegedly abducted by a UFO. He added that it was being delayed due to several personal reasons, including the officer's religious believes. Riffo also responded to questions regarding another similar case where a man named Lucio Quevedo, was abducted in the area of Putre, and later turned out in the neighboring country of Bolivia. "These cases are amazing; just the two alone are worth coming back to Arica to further study them", said Riffo. Jaime Ferrer Calama UFO Center Translations by Mario Andrade
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:27:29 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:53:29 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:21:58 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >I'm interested in your remark that the "British Establishment" >was involved in this. What you actually mean is that a handful >of qualified people with a good track record in military and >scientific matters looked into UFO reports for a brief time. >That does NOT equate to the (whole, or part of) "british >establishment" being involved, or in a cover-up. It is a bit >naughty to leap from RV Jones, Tizard and friends to the veiled >suggestion that there was more going on. We have not suggested that the _whole or part_ of the of the British Establishment were involved in the UFO issue. We name certain Establishment figures who looked into UFO reports, but we also cover those who took a personal interest. The cover-up was more to do with the American influence. Hope this helps Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:38:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:02:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 +0000 >Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance Dick, The kind of post that gives me the feeling of the ball in a slot machine. <snip> >No. 1, mainstream acceptance requires a purging of New Age >nonsense and a careful presentation of hardcore data to opinion >makers in society. <snip> We all concur that mainstream acceptance is _the_ problem ufology (sorry Wendy) needs to address. Those who disagree, please raise you hand. I am not sure about the New Age stuff. Many people mix Astrology and Astronomy; both are about stars and planets, aren't they? But who takes exception of the confusion? Nobody. Because Astronomy exists as a mainstream science. As for the "careful presentation of hardcore data to opinion makers in society", here are a handful of oxymorons if I've ever seen one! You affirmation implies that there are 'decision makers in society'. Unfortunately, you are right. Unfortunately also, it's the same 'decision makers in society' who have prevented ufology from becoming mainstream, giving star appearances to thinkers anonymous - all the absolute pro-UFO and totally anti-UFO loonies who have long abdicated their wits to their hormones. _They_ have given the stage to a bunch of clowns. So what kind of hardcore data do you want to present _them_? The data is already there. What has prevented _them_, for instance, from reading your 'UFO Evidence, Volume II'? <snip> >Even then, the anti-UFO biases are very >strong and I am not holding my breath. It is not the public-at- >large so much that sneers at UFOs (polls show otherwise) as it >is alleged scientists who remain blissfully ignorant of the >serious data, and fear for their reputations. <snip> Amen and arrrrrggggghhhhhh! to that. Is there anything that can be done to change that? <snip> >No. 2, I am very disappointed that the detailed data compilation >and analysis that I included in The UFO Evidence, Volume II (now >out for just over a year) has not gotten around and received >positive reviews where they might do some good (great reviews on >Amazon.com), and few people that matter seem to have read it. >The book shows very strong patterns based on ample >documentation, which could (should) be persuasive, but the book >is pricey (beyond my control) and it is obvious to me by the >tone of many posts on this List that very few of you have >actually read or studied it. >It was a struggle even to find a publisher, and to this date >neither the sponsors (UFO Research Coalition) nor I have >received one penny of royalties from it. The first royalty >statement is due in July, three-fourths to the Coalition and >one-fourth to me. <snip> Two things, and they have nothing to do with the _value_ of your book: 1. How about an e-book edition? Some are sold as low as half the price of the hardcover book format; the risks are minimized for the editor: you pay, you download, you print as you wish. 2. Why should anybody want to buy your book? I don't feel I owe you anything, or any researcher anything. Like everybody, I spend money in my interest, and, when I can afford it, spend it to help other people. Sorry to say that you're not on my list. Not because you work has no value. To the contrary. It must have great value, but I have become disgusted through the years with the subject of UFOs, the main reason being the failure of a possible dialog. Knowledge needs a mind, which needs a purpose, which needs a heart. The only way to get a kick out of anything is to be able to share it with people. This List should be a good medium for dialog. It is, at some point, but not to the point to make it worthy to buy your book. Your book would gain immensely in value if it were possible to have open discussions on the cases you present, discussions without hidden agendas. Do you think there is even a slight possibility? Allow me the disastrous observation: the failure of your book is the failure of ufology. <snip> >Many of us bust our butts to do the best research we can, >publish it or distribute it any way we can, and then take a lot >of flack for not providing our work free to any armchair `buff' >who wants it while sinking ever deeper into debt. <snip> I don't see anybody throwing rotten tomatoes at researchers. But I see a lot of debunkers who have ganged up together to discredit the researchers, their research and their data for a purpose that escapes my common sense - save an obscure certitude that rats feed on dung. I also see researchers who take pleasure in debating with debunkers, abundantly and compulsively exchanging pointless and irreconcilable views, giving, in the process, credentials to the same shame kekunbers, err... debunkers. A total waste of time and energy. It would be so simple to apply the same recipe some other researchers apply to other Listers: ignore them. As I also see that a name is earned-fabricated-tarnished by the attention one is _granted_, independently whatever the nature of the post, its pertinence, its _value_. It has to do with who, not with what. Let's play a game and make the UFO UpDates anonymous. No names, no email addresses, no nothing except the bare text. No peeking and no cheating. I doubt this would have the success of a gang bang. Any takers? <presnip> >Sorry, I can't be too sympathetic to people who complain about >not being catered to with UFO information at their whim because >they are poor or not part of the alleged 'elite'. Anyone who >thinks I am even moderately 'wealthy' has not visited my home. <snip> He! You refuted the allegations of wealthiness. But... not 'elitism'?! That's a joke. <snip> >Sign me, >Pissed in Brentwood <snip> Good post, Dick, but is there anything that can be done to remedy the situation which is: UFOLOGY MUST GO MAINSTREAM! It is the only escape. Is it feasible? Where are the researchers when we need them?! Regards, and of course ;) Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:44:43 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:05:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 >+0000Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:39:40 -0400 >Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >No. 1, mainstream acceptance requires a purging of New Age >nonsense and a careful presentation of hard-core data to opinion >makers in society. Even then, the anti-UFO biases are very >strong and I am not holding my breath. It is not the public-at- >large so much that sneers at UFOs (polls show otherwise) as it >is alleged scientists who remain blissfully ignorant of the >serious data, and fear for their reputations. I agree Richard. However, who decides what is too far out and what is acceptable? I think that a great bumber of people are turning to the New Age Community because they are frustrated with not getting the answers from the scientific UFO community. It just kills me to go to any bookstore and see UFO books lumped in with the wacko channeling snake oil salesman publications. In the New Age Community, you don't have to have scientific evidence to help prove your claims, just enough lost people to believe the rhetoric and rubbish that is bred from desperate, lost souls. And of course, the lure of the quick and easy dollar is usually the author's only motivation to write these nonsensical tales! More and more researchers are resorting to inter-dimensional explanations of many of the UFO cases both classic and current because you don't need to provide rational, scientific evidence to convince the New-Agers. It's an easy sale. Science then fails in integrity when it can't re-create a UFO sighting then dismisses the entire episode as phenomena. Check on the Rockefeller Commission's case that Richard Haines brought known as Flight 94, when it was summarily dismissed by top scientists because the sighting could not be re-created. No integrity there either. As researchers and investigators, all we can do is to present the UFO case publicly after we have investigated it to the best of our abilities, both rationally and scientifically, and not worry about the sordid soup of flotsam that the Newage movement wallows in. P. T Barnum would love them wouldn't he? Jim Kelly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:41:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:22:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:37:04 -0500 >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance <snip> >I checked Amazon.com, and they have an offering of your UFO >Evidence, Volume II. Hardcover edition - $47.96. I think most >people realize that the cover price is beyond your control and >don't blame you personally for it. But allow me to interject a >bit of reality here. >For the sake of simplicity, let us round up the price to an >even $48. Add to that shipping cost of, say, $5. That brings >our total to the neighborhood of $53. Not a bad buy for an >excellent work such as I'm sure this book is, but the reality of >life is that the same $53 spent for that would buy diapers for a >month for a child, pay a phone bill, pay an internet bill, pay >half of a light bill, almost cover the daycare cost for a week, >put gas in the car for a week, put groceries on the table for a >week, etc. Pick any one of the above and you have a good reason >why someone would not own a copy of your Volume II. >Sad, but true, that some people simply have to set priorities in >their financial affairs. And covering the baby's butt is >generally considered more important than buying books about UFOs >so one can read and study UFO related data. I personally would >like to have a copy of your book to go with the Volume I that I >have. And one day, when there is a copy listed on ebay at a >reasonable rate that fits in with my budget at the time, I'll >get a copy. That's not a snub; it is simply reality. >It isn't something to get pissed about. Life simply is what it >is :) >Bobbie Bobbie, I know all of that, because I am a hard-pressed consumer myself with economic priorites due to debts that you don't want to hear about. But people do buy tons of trashy UFO books as the statistics show. Also, as I have suggested in several forums (fora) since the book is pricey, that people wanting to read it could at least ask their local libraries to order a copy. It is, after all, a library publisher well-known in the field. Unfortunately, it did not get reviewed in Library Journal but the other reviews are all pretty positive. My grievance is that it is not, apparently, getting into the hands of mainstream opinion-makers who could make a difference. I have also suggested that someone orders copies to send to important people of their choosing, as a means of getting it around. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:59:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:27:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 +0000 >Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance <snip> >Sorry, I can't be too sympathetic to people who complain about >not being catered to with UFO information at their whim because >they are poor or not part of the alleged 'elite'. Anyone who >thinks I am even moderately 'wealthy' has not visited my home. >Many of us bust our butts to do the best research we can, >publish it or distribute it any way we can, and then take a lot >of flack for not providing our work free to any armchair 'buff' >who wants it while sinking ever deeper into debt. >Sign me, >Pissed in Brentwood Dear 'Pissed in Brentwood', ;) (And you have every right to be) Dick, after almost half a century of contributions to the field you, more than most, have earned the right to 'bitch' if you want to. You have _earned_ through years of dedicated hard work the right to comment publicly on any aspect of the field that you wish to. And to do so with the authority that your years of service and experience has granted you. Myself and my family members along with many others that I have come to know and like very well have all had our lives affected by this phenomenon. Learning all that we can about it _is_ a 'priority' for us. Thanks to the hard work and years of your time that folks like yourself and Jerry Clark and many others too numerous to mention here have produced, the information that _we_ need is available to us. I will be ordering your book. I promise to read it and even post a review here to the List if you like. The review doesn't matter. What does matter is; everyone on this List who professes to have a genuine interest in the subject and who truly appreciates the effort and the work that guys like you put into it, should _support_ that work by supporting the people that do it. My daughter is 29 and my son is 26. "Buying Pampers" is not a major issue for me. My priorities are in learning all I can about a phenomenon that has affected my life and that of my loved ones. For me... there is no higher priority. Nothing personal, just the way life is. :) The check is in the mail. Warm regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Bott From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:09:32 +1200 (NZST) Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:32:51 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Magic' Codewords - Bott Greetings again List People. Bill Hamilton wrote: >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:59:14 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: 'Magic' Codewords >On Majestic codewords and other codewords used more than once, >my friend Robert Collins (ex Capt USAF) who has been making a >study of the Majestic documents writes: Is this the same (ex USAF Capt) Robert Collins who appeared "incognito" in the 1988 Television Special "UFO Cover-up Live" as "Condor"? (with his face and voice electronicly distorted to conceal his true identity). I believe he is - so can you please confirm this. For him to be making a study of the "majestic" documents is rather mild compared to the claims that he and Falcon (Richard Doty) made on "UFO Coverup - Live" >"Majestic", "Magic" Code Words used during WWII by the Navy and >Army? Yes, others including myself have discovered the genuine codenames "Majestic" (for proposed wartime invasion of the Japanese Islands) and "Magic" (for the World War Two, Signals Intelligence monitoring Japanese Signals) >Reference below the Navy and Army Code Words dating back to >WWII. Code Words can be used or reused repeatedly in some cases >to act as a cover for other projects which are deemed to be >"more sensitive".\ As an example, there is an NSA Project >Aquarius that deals with "advanced communications." While I am not aware of the background to this original "Aquarius" Project, I seek information on the following :- >But there is >also (according to the NSA FOIA official 1986) another Project >Aquarius run by the Air Force. From information we have this >"other" AF Project Aquarius pertains to UFOs. Could you please enlarge on this a little and state (for those of us researchers outside the USA) who this NSA FOIA official is and specifically what he did tell you regarding this Air Force run "Project Aquarius"? In an effort to determine if a "paper trail" (documentary evidence) exists, can you tell me by what means did he advise of this project (ie by letter or other means). Is there a copy of this advice available and could I obtain a copy of it from you? There was one "apparent" Project Aquarius document which surfaced in the early 1980's, this was the first reference to "MJ-12" to be widely circulated within the ufological community. This document on the face of it is a teletype message sent by AFOSI HQ to Kirtland Air Force Base and discussed the analysis of UFO photos etc taken by Paul Bennewitz. AFOSI apparently denied sending this message and called it a hoax, and one prominent UFO researcher (who is familiar with AFOSI material) picked that it was NOT on AFOSI typeface. Subsequently William (Bill) Moore admitted to having done a "cut and paste and retype" job on this document. (Refer article "MJ-12, Facts, Questions, Comments" by Robert Hastings published in the MUFON UFO Journal no 254, June 1989) Is there an original version of this document anywhere to be found, or is only the "Cut and paste and retype" version which is still circulating around. To Bill Hamilton: Could this document be the same "Aquarius" document which you are refering to ?? >In the case of >Majestic or Magic these are related to Mj12 and MAJIC or >Military Assessment Joint Intelligence Committee. The MJ is >formed by taking the first and third letters of the acronym >MAJIC which is by the way the first and third letters of >Majestic, coincidence ? We think not. The phonetic spelling for >MAJIC is MAGIC. So, as the reader can see Code Words can be used >again but with interesting variations. The method of using Code >Words in the case of UFOs is a cover within a cover or like the >layers of an onion. The same Code Word used repeatedly but for >different classified projects that protect the most vital >sensitive core project(s)..... With regard to how the caption "MJ-12" came about - yes I too could see it was coincidently the "MJ" was the first and third letters of the words "Majestic" and "Majic". This in itself does not make them genuine, if this "alleged" committee was made up of twelve people one could ask why choose 12? On the other hand the person(s) wishing to hoax these documents could have received some inspiration from the movie "Tora, Tora, Tora" where the group of people who were authorised to see details of the highly secret "Magic" intercepted (Japanese) messages were restricted to 12 people being Military Commanders and Civil Leaders (the President, Secretary of State, etc) One additional point here: With the proven use of the "original" codewords of "Majestic" and "Magic" as I have previously discussed - is it a proven fact that the military or its various separate branches (ie Airforce/Navy/Army/Intelligence etc) are duplicating these codewords on any sort of larger scale? Or is this some sort of attempt by the MJ-12 proponents to justify their ongoing position on MJ-12 ?? >Navy >MAJESTIC - Invasion of Kyushu, Japan (projected). >MAJESTIC - Taliwaga, New Britain. >MAJESTY - A craft shelter and breakwater formed of sunken >blockships for use against the Japanese. >Reference: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/NAVEXOS_P-474M.htm >Army >MAGIC - World War II signals intelligence derived from >interception of Japanese encoded message traffic. >Reference: http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/reference/code.htm Yes I did also include these two Web Page URL,s in my original post for people to check out. While there may prove to be the occasional duplication of use of such codewords, it appears to me the following points. 1. The myth of "Majestic Twelve" (MJ-12) as related to the UFO scene originates from documents which have always at best been "dubious" - but in all appearances an outright "hoax" 2. These fake MJ-12 documents distributed around during the 1980's is supported primarily by equally dubious (or outright faked) documents during the 1990's (ie First Annual Report etc) 3. Despite all efforts by those proponents of MJ-12 there remains no confirming evidence of its actual existance. 4. Many of the proponents of MJ-12 are finding ways and means of ignoring normal protocols of "let the proponents prove their case" and do in fact appear to be "ignoring the contrary evidence". There is something in the new MJ-12 documents which I am currently preparing a discussion statement on which I will post to the List in due course. Meanwhile: "Only a great deal of wishfull thinking will preserve the illusion that Majestic Twelve" (MJ-12) actually exists" Regards Murray Bott -- Email : murrayb@win.co.nz Voice : 64-9-6345285 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 International Petition Progress Report 01 From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:46:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:42:08 -0400 Subject: International Petition Progress Report 01 Hi All, To date we have accumulated 500 + signatures for the International Petition to the UN. As good as that may sound to some, the truth is that it is a 'relatively' poor showing. Especially in consideration of the fact that the number of signatures does not even match/reflect the number of members of this List alone. And that's not counting the thousands who listen to SDI over the Internet! It's quite simple really, unless folks get behind the effort to get more countries to disclose what they know about UFOs, it's never going to happen. This is an opportunity for witnesses, skeptics, agnostics and believers alike to make their voices heard. To request of all nations of the world that they release all information in their possession pertaining to the UFO phenomenon. Regardless of which side of the debate you stand on, I cannot find any legitimate grounds why someone would find fault or cause to disagree with the petition we have posted. Maybe it's just old fashioned laziness? Everyone on this List (especially) should have signed it by now. That alone would represent at least a couple of thousand signatures. This petition can only benefit everyone if it is successful. It's "success" depends entirely upon _you_ as an individual. Don't let 'apathy' stop you from taking an active part in letting our respective country's leaders know that: "We want to know!" That, "We have a _right_ to know!" Make your voice heard. Sign the petition today. More importantly, tell others to read it and sign it as well. It's all about word of mouth. Please support this worthwhile effort. Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Secrecy News -- 04/10/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:10:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:45:05 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/10/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 29 April 10, 2002 ** SECURITY POLICY CHASING ITS TAIL ** NEW COMPILATION OF FOIA RULINGS SECURITY POLICY CHASING ITS TAIL In one of its more astute recommendations, the new report of the Webster Commission on FBI security practices urged creation of an interagency mechanism that would enable intelligence agencies to learn from each other's security failures, so that each agency would not need to repeat every such mistake on its own. "A system should be established whereby security lapses in a particular entity lead to improved security measures throughout the entire Intelligence Community," the Webster Commission stated in its report (page 22). But as if to exemplify the problem, the Commission was evidently unaware of recent efforts to establish precisely this kind of system, and so it was unable to draw any lessons from the failure of those efforts. The Commission did recall that a 1994 DOD-DCI Joint Security Commission recommended the establishment of an interagency "security executive committee" in order to "unify security policy development; serve as a mechanism for coordination, dispute resolution, evaluation, and oversight; and provide a focal point for Congressional and public inquiries regarding security policy...." (page 21). Yet the authors failed to note that this recommendation was accepted, and such an interagency Committee was actually created. See the Charter of the Joint Security Executive Committee (JSEC), which was established by the Deputy Secretary of Defense and the Director of Central Intelligence in June 1994, here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/jsec.html The JSEC was redesignated the Security Policy Board (SPB) in September 1994, with expanded membership to include all national security agencies, and with a mandate to develop consistent and cost-effective security policies government-wide. See Presidential Decision Directive 29 on "Security Policy Coordination": http://www.fas.org/sgp/spb/pdd29.html But in April 2001, after seven years of largely fruitless wrangling, the SPB was abolished by President Bush's National Security Presidential Directive 1. Now, before establishing a new interagency security coordination process as recommended by the Webster Commission, one would think that the lessons of the demise of the Security Policy Board ought to be considered. No formal post-mortem assessment of the SPB has been conducted to determine exactly why it proved ineffective (even though, on occasion, it made a useful contribution). A preliminary assessment suggests that the SPB membership grew too large and its deliberations became burdensome and inconclusive as a result. The SPB leadership in CIA and DOD was not committed to the process, and so it never gained the confidence of other senior policy makers. Public input into the security policy process was discouraged by naming retired government security officials to represent the "non-governmental and public interest perspective" on the Security Policy Advisory Board. See an archive of Security Policy Board documents here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/spb/index.html See the text of the 1994 DOD-CIA Joint Security Commission report, "Redefining Security," here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/jsc/index.html The Webster Commission report, "A Review of FBI Security Programs," is posted here: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/websterreport.html NEW COMPILATION OF FOIA RULINGS A new annotated list of judicial decisions in Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuits for the first quarter of 2002 has just been published by the Department of Justice. Although it is a mixed bag, most of the latest rulings appear to favor the government rather than the FOIA requester. See: http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2002foiapost11.htm "Litigation intended to promote openness in government in the national security arena almost invariably harms the cause of open government," according to Steven Garfinkel, former director of the Information Security Oversight Office, who spoke at the Freedom Forum on March 15. "By now, everyone here should know that the courts almost never substitute their judgment for that of the executive branch on national security issues," Mr. Garfinkel said. See his remarks here: http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=15914 ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 10 Filers Files #15-2002 From: Majorstar@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:39:52 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:57:31 -0400 Subject: Filers Files #15-2002 FILER'S FILES #15-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern April 10, 2002, Majorstar@AOL.COM. Webmaster: Chuck Warren http://www.filersfiles.com. UFOs were observed over Massachusetts, New Jersey, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Wisconsin, Illinois, Texas, Arizona, Nevada, California, Oregon, Washington, Canada, Germany, and Australia. More evidence for life on Mars. COMET IKEYA-ZHANG COMES INTO VIEW AFTER 341-YEARS The Comet was last seen during the reign of Charles II. The comet, the brightest since Hale-Bopp in 1997, will appear with Andromeda in the western sky at sunset. Thanks to Nature News Service MORE EVIDENCE FOR LIFE ON MARS. AMES RESEARCH CENTER -- Evidence is leaking out that Mars is a more hospitable planet than previously accepted by planetary scientists. As our perception of the "Red Planet" evolves, new data is giving us a glimpses of possible life. Each year the Martian ice melts at the poles creating conditions for unique types of vegetation to flourish. There are images of what appears to be dense "foliage," that looks similar to bushes with some height based on the shadows they produce. New images indicate liquid subsurface water exists particularly in the Southern Hemisphere. Strong sunlight warms the planet enough to allow hardy plants or possibly green molds to survive. A team of researchers studying photographs of Mars has found teardrop features that they say were sculpted by flowing water and other studies hinted that subsurface reservoirs may exist. Some scientists conclude geothermal activity indicates there is enough water to sustain life on Mars. Also, the Mars Odyssey Satellite is now picking up hydrogen in the surface of the Martian southern hemisphere indicating water, which is crucial for life. Odyssey will orbit Mars for 917 days of science mapping. As told in these files for years, scientists now expect there are vast, hidden stores of water below the dry, dusty surface. Many images taken in spring time show chlorophyll like growth on the planet. The chlorophyll molecules are used by plants to produce energy from sunlight. Close up July 1997, photographs of rocks show mold, or fungus growing at the base of the rocks. Although, the base of rocks on Mars could be naturally green, it seems a growth of mold of some type is more likely, since it seems unlikely that only the base of the rocks would show green. See photos at: http://www.filersfiles.com/space/index.php?id=30. Dr. Carol Stoker, from NASA's Ames Research Center, worked with a team that used photos from the 1997 Mars Pathfinder mission to determine if there could be chlorophyll on Mars. The soil near the landing site suggests there could be chlorophyll, the molecule used by plants and other organisms on Earth to extract energy from sunlight. Researchers stress their work is in a very preliminary stage and they are far from making definite claims. The findings will come under intense scrutiny when it is presented to an astrobiology conference in the US next week. DR Carol Stoker confirmed the findings to BBC News Online, but cautioned that they were "not ready for the big time." The Mars Pathfinder mission touched down in the Ares Vallis region of Mars in July 1997, and numerous images of the surrounding area were examined by a small rover that moved around to sample rocks. Knowing the spectral signature of chlorophyll, the researchers wrote a computer program that systematically scanned for the spectral signature associated with red light absorption by chlorophyll. Previous searches for evidence of chlorophyll in Pathfinder's pictures were carried out and tentative indications were seen but they were dismissed as "possible image MIS- registration." In Dr. Stoker's study six regions were positive for the chlorophyll signature near the camera where it has the highest sensitivity and resolution. Two regions showed a chlorophyll signature in the soil around Pathfinder. Mars has been observed by astronomers to turn green each spring for centuries, it seems logical that something green is growing? Numerous structures exist, that do not match known geological processes. http://www.filersfiles.com/news/images.php?id=18 MASSACHUSETTS CHEVRON FLIES ACROSS THE MOON. WOBURN -- The witness reports he was looking at the moon with binoculars and had just gotten them sharply focused, when he saw a Chevron shaped object on March 28, 2002. The object was shaped like a 'V,' and flew across the face of the moon heading east. The object was black and there were no running lights. The binoculars are Nikon 7x20 7.1d Travelite 2 model. The Chevron was small relative to the moon. It would take about 20 of it's wing spans to match the moon's diameter. A few seconds after the sighting, it had disappeared and I could see stars and a few aircraft in the area that were easily recognizable by their lighting. My first thought was that an F-117 Stealth fighter was flying over. I wonder if anyone else in the Boston area saw this. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director NUFORC www.ufocenter.com NEW JERSEY SIGHTINGS NORTH ATLANTIC -- A Navy veteran reports, "I was on air watch aboard USS Fort Mandan, LSD 21 in February 1952. During maneuvers 400 miles east of New Jersey, I spotted the Gondola of a Blimp flying 1/2 to 3/4 miles away. I was on the bridge about 15 feet from the Captain who said there were no Blimps within 500 miles of our position. Then I heard him whisper, "Blind SOB!" It was a partly cloudy day, cold and windy with rough sea but not bad. I remember the clouds as I thought maybe I saw some weird kind of reflection of a Blimp from over the horizon, especially since they told me there was nothing on radar and not a Blimp around. I still distinctly remember that it looked like a long Blimp Gondola with windows but I did not see the Gas Bag above the Gondola so I figured a cloud covered it. I followed it a bit and then reported aircraft off the Port Beam. When I reported, I took my Binoculars off my eyes, and could no longer find the object. Thanks to USN Retired and Brian Vike STERLING -- The witness is a 41-year-old female manager reports seeing a small bright light 1000 feet high dipping low, that then arced up, and was gone in only three seconds on April 5, 2002, at 6:55 PM. The object was star like but moved quickly. Its actual size was 11 to 30 feet and it appeared white, gray lead or silver like. The sky was overcast. I phoned the witness several times and left messages but we have not made contact. Thanks to MUFON Headquarters. ALABAMA WITNESSES SIGHT SIX LIGHTS ADELAIDE -- On April 4, 2002, at 10:00 PM, six bright orange objects were flying southeast and resembled satellites. They were as distant as stars, but moving at the rate a comet or satellite moves across the sky. The objects were in formation. Three in each formation, creating a pyramid effect. These exact same six objects were spotted two years ago on Christmas night, however they were in a different formation near Scorpio, when they moved strategically into the same pyramid effects as viewed on the 4th. The witnesses are all of sound mind, working well paid jobs from Correctional Services Officer to Financial Planner. The same people as well as other family members also saw the lights 2 Christmases ago. I am dumbfounded. FLORIDA FIREFLY TYPE LIGHT SEEN TAMPA -- Two witnesses were coming out of the AMC Westshore Theater around 9:45 PM, on April 8, 2002. The witness reports, "I looked up to look at the night sky and saw was a meteorite coming down or skipping around on the atmosphere. So I kept looking but in less than three seconds it turned and began to move very quickly. It was zigzagging like a person shining a pen light on a board and moving it in motions like a composure. That is why I thought it was a meteorite skipping off the atmosphere at first. Then I realized that it was going in and out and underneath and above the clouds. It moved from toward the south all in the space of about 10-30 seconds. Nothing to my knowledge could have endured the G forces caused by the maneuvers and the speed was tremendous. It traveled about 5 miles within 5 seconds. I pointed it to my mother who also saw it. She said she would never get over it. I have wanted to see something like this for 22 years. I would also like to make clear that it looked like a firefly but there were no trails of light behind. This light was very clearly a UFO. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director NUFORC www.ufocenter.com TENNESSEE -- CONVEX SHAPED LIGHTS ROELLEN-DYERSBURG -- The witness reports seeing red and green lights that were convex shaped on March 7, 2002, that were small enough to be beside the house and over trees. I was coming home from work and no one else was on the road at 9:30 PM, when I saw the weird green and red light hovering above the trees. I pulled into a vacant house driveway to get a better look and it's lights were together and convex shaped as it hovered over the trees beside the house like it was looking at me. I had rolled down the windows and it had a humm sound to it. When it turned it had a round yellow taillight. I couldn't tell what shape it had though. MISSISSIPPI FLYING DISCS AND POSSIBLE ALIEN VISITOR I have seen three UFO's, one from a great distance which could be described as a spiraling wheel on March 20, 2001. I also saw two moving UFO's within a mile of me and 1/2 mile from the Mississippi Test Facility test stand where they were "static firing" and testing the missile while it was fastened to tons of concrete prior to sending the Saturn Rocket to Cape Kennedy. It later was used for the first stage of the flight to the moon. I was with my three children on the way to the site to pick up my husband. It literally made the hair on my neck stand up. The next day people all over town were talking about the two, pulsing lights that were hovering and moving back and forth near where the rocket stood. Twenty-five people at the bowling alley had seen the UFO's. Their descriptions fit mine exactly. In the 70's I was on the road for business and stopped in a small cafe. While we were in there, a man came in and asked the waitress where he could find liquid for batteries. It was very early in the morning and the cafe was the only place open. I knew he needed battery fluid by what he said, and told him he could get help at the gas station. He said he was in a trailer which was run by batteries. He seemed quite distressed waiting for the station to open since he had a schedule to meet. He said he was coming from Mexico and was on his way to work on Mount Shasta, not in the town, where he had work to do. He wanted to know if US newspapers reported on the giant vegetables being raised in the mountains of Mexico. His people had been helping these isolated people by teaching them how to grow things. His people had tried to help the other nations as well, but no-one would have anything to do with them. He said the governments of the world did not want to talk to them and they were totally disregarded. He talked about how bad off the world was. This conversation began to take on a surreal amount of information which made me wonder who he was. We were all mesmerized by his stories. The only people in the cafe were us four women, all over 30 years old who REALLY wanted to hear what he had to say. We were all eager to just listen to him. He was of medium height, muscular and had snow white hair, even though his face seemed ageless. He looked Swedish, but his English was good, but he did not know that electrolytes were needed for batteries. He did say he had important work on Mount Shasta and had to be there on time to get it done. He was so white, and he had an expression of peace and a quiet, and a steady voice like an angel which was like music to the ears. Thanks to cowherd1 854.218 and Loy Lawhon, Guide to UFOs/Aliens, http://ufos.about.com WISCONSIN HUGE DISC WITH LIGHTS LYNDON STATION -- On April 6, 2002, Kim W. reports, "My son came home about 10:30 PM and said there were strange lights in the sky." My wife and I went out to look. The object consisted of about eight large white lights formed in a large circle. The entire circle was rotating clockwise slowly. There was a 300 feet cloud ceiling. Whatever this was appeared to be just above the clouds. The clouds gave the lights an opaque effect and it seemed to throw light off in one part of its rotation, kind of like a water sprinkler throws water, but just in one spot. When holding my hand up in front of me, it would have taken 6 hands to cover it. Quite large! It was in the east of our location. It was stationary for maybe 10 minutes, then began a slight movement to the southwest and disappeared in the blink of an eye. Thanks to Kim W. and John Hoppe, Director@ufowisconsin.com UFOWisconsin ILLINOIS ASTRONOMER SEES CLIMBING FIREBALLS LAKE FOREST -- An astronomer states, "This is the third time I have witnessed Fluorescent white-green fireballs. The first time myself and another person and I saw it at the same location on March 14, 2002, at 8:45 PM. The second was just myself and my brother and wife and children at a different location. And the third time myself. They always come from the same spot in the northwest part of the sky. We have seen a 'fireball' shoot down from the sky that was extremely fluorescent bright white with a greenish glow to it. This left no trace or trails. On the second observation the object DID 'shoot' back up in the same section of the sky approximately one hour later. No sounds, nothing out of the ordinary afterwards. This was NOT a fireball. The time and date given for this event is my THIRD viewing. The times for the other events were all around 10 to 12 PM CST and each viewing was separated by a period of years. TEXAS DISC-SHAPED HUBCAP UFO SPOTTED ALLEN -- On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, "Huckleberry" M. was at home in Allen, Texas when a UFO approached from the north. "A hubcap-like thing flew over and landed in a field," Huck reported. "At the time we were going fishing. We walked on past a tree to see the hubcap hover about 10 feet (3 meters) off the ground and then it zipped off to the west." "It was silver and round at the top like a hubcap that is, it had a dome-shaped protuberance on top. Around the side were little circular lights. The round top looked like it could pop up like a door. It had no landing gear. Height was about five yards (15 feet) off the ground. Length was about 10 feet (3 meters) and the speed was going as fast as you can see. When it zipped off, it looked like a line shooting across the sky." Allen, Tex. is on Highway 5 about 20 miles north of Dallas. Thanks to UFO Roundup Vol. 7, #14, 4/2/02 Editor, Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ ARIZONA FIVE OBJECTS SEEN GLOBE -- GC writes, "My husband and I live approximately 85 miles east of Phoenix, at 3,500 feet elevation, with mountains between us and the city." Last night while on our deck, looking to the west, we saw what at first we thought was the beginning of a jet's contrail. It was small, about an inch long from our perspective. Next we noticed how bright it was and that it's southern trajectory wasn't moving very fast. We continued to watch, then thinking perhaps it was a comet, when two larger ones (about 4 inches long) appeared moving to the north! We ran to get the binoculars and then saw there were two larger ones moving behind the smaller one. This made a total of five with two heading north and three heading south. The small one changed course and began moving north, when one of them simply blinked out. Then the remaining two heading south faded out. This left one large one and the original small one now heading north. We continued watching until they disappeared behind our mountain range. My husband reports that while I ran for the binoculars, one of the objects went from the north to the south at a high rate of speed, disappeared (not behind a cloud), reappeared, and then disappeared again for good. One of the objects had a much bigger tail streaming behind it, and it looked just like a meteor that passed through the upper atmosphere and then continued on its way, only this object was much closer to the ground. These objects looked more like streaks of bright light. Thanks to MUFON Headquarters, MUFONHQ@aol.com. NEVADA FLYING TRIANGLE LAS VEGAS -- The two witnesses were lying by the pool outside our hotel on Tuesday, April 2, 2002, when we noticed what appeared to be a triangular object in the northeast that at first we thought was a plane. We noticed there was no contrail. I continued watching it until it was almost directly overhead. It was making quick little darting moves back and forth randomly so my husband thought maybe it was a piece of paper flying around, at first. Then this object took off due north at a high rate of speed and disappeared in the distance. We are and have been believers of UFO's for years. I personally saw a fleet of them back in the '60's north of Apple Valley. We reported it to George Air Force Base, which was near the area, but of course they just ignored it. Thanks for the info on the MUFON Journal. I'm going to order it now and will tell them you recommended us for membership and field investigator training. We travel a great deal and would enjoy this type of investigating. Thanks to CG CALIFORNIA CAMERAS CAPTURE UFOs GILROY -- An object was caught on a still image taken by a camera on March 12, 2002, on the top of a mountain near San Jose. This camera is on a roof top facing west and takes a picture every 4 minutes. The object was captured in two frames, at 3:16 AM, and 3:20 AM. In the first picture the thin flat object was located at the top of the frame with the left side out of the image and the right side about 30 degrees lower. The object seems almost transparent except for five blueish lights. Using windows paint program I put a grid over the picture and the space between the lights is 16-20 pixels indicating it may not be round. The object is located in the left about 1/4 the way down between the mountains and the city with the definition reduced due to distance and possibly movement. BURNEY -- In a clear night sky, one object was seen on March 12, 2002, the object moved fast, up, down, and sideways. The object changed colors while moving at 11:50 PM. Colors seen were a very bright, white, blue, green and pink. The object appeared to have two tops which moved separately. The object became smaller as it flew away and disappeared. WEST HOLLYWOOD/BEVERLY HILLS -- We video taped the whole sighting with a news camera on March 5, 2002. The first UFO at 3:00 PM, was a white orb that moved very slow and rotated. I taped it for about ten minutes and another orb entered the atmosphere at a very fast rate of speed and then disappeared, but I didn't get that on tape. The final UFO was moving very fast across the sky. It was silver and appeared to change shapes. It finally made a 90-degree turn down and disappeared. This was amazing. The camera was purchased in Germany, it is PAL / secam system. BAKERSFIELD -- On March 29, 2002, two witnesses reported seeing a Flying Triangle at 9:30 PM, with three bright lights on front. The witness reports, "My girlfriend and I were traveling south on I-5 about one hour north of Bakersfield. I was in the passenger seat and noticed what appeared to be a plane coming towards us on the east side of the freeway. As it came closer it made a sharp turn north flying very low lighting up the ground beneath it. When it became very visible, it was shaped similar to a Flying Triangle but it didn't appear tall enough for a human to be in side. It then would pull up at about 80 degree angle wobbling a little as if slightly out of control, and made a slow very sharp U-turn heading down and along the ground repeating the same thing over and over again until we lost sight of it. Just as we were losing site a police car went speeding in the direction of the object. OREGON FLYING TRIANGLE SPOTTED SALEM -- Three witnesses were traveling on Kuebler Road on March 29, 2002, at 7:20 PM when they noticed bright headlights in the distance that did not appear to be moving. The witness states, "My girlfriend myself and a friend started watching this craft. When we got to Sunnyview, it was right there not moving, but sitting in the air quietly. The craft was a triangular shape, but the front was kind of cut off, so it would not really complete a triangle form. It had really bright lights at each corner. About a quarter of a mile up the road it turned left on Walker Road, when we approached to the other side of the field, it took off never accelerating just one instant speed. The back was a little different. At each end of the craft it had bright lights. Along the sides of the craft it had a light that had a different rhythm to it. It blinked different from anything I have seen. Since it was bright I could see a dome like shape stick out. If it were to sit on the ground it would rock or teeter. The lights never pointed at the ground like a helicopter's spotlights. The lights were like straight ahead. However, it was so bright that it lit the ground beneath it. You could see the grass greens in it. WASHINGTON SIGHTINGS PICK UP MT. HOOD -- Jackie Burns writes that in summer 1999, I was visiting Satva Institute. The people who own the institute are very nice people who say that UFOs are a common experience. I was skeptical but I went out with my boyfriend when darkness fell to see what all the talk was about. I was very, very surprised to see unusual happenings in the sky that night. What I saw was what at first appeared to be a satellite except that it split from one piece into three pieces. It was moving in an odd fashion when I noticed it and then it divided into three equally sized units. I also saw other maneuvers that satellites do not make. Not exact "right angles" but angles that are strange. After the object split into three units of equal size they traveled for about 30 seconds one in front of the other and then they merged into one object again. They were the size of a satellite. This was the most impressive anomaly in the sky that night however there were others. I would say we viewed eight or ten separate unusual objects of similar size going in odd directions, then making angles, and then disappearing entirely. I cannot explain it except to say that this was not ordinary at all, it was quite thrilling to see, and I was amazed. Thanks to jackie_burns_2000@yahoo.com SPOKANE -- Brian Vike says his witness reports observing a variety of bright nocturnal lights on a regular basis since February 2, 2002, near Palouse. The witness is taking photographs through a 200 x Meade telescope and a 35 mm Canon AE-1, but most of the photos are simply blobs of light. In some shots at shorter shutter speeds, the lights take on a discernible "saucer" shape. On the evening of February 4, he observed a large "sparkling" light hanging over the Palouse. He says, "I noticed a large jet aircraft fly over my house, and then fly a circular pattern under the light and thinking those pilots must have seen that light!" Two nights later on a stormy night at 9:30 PM the wind and rain lit up, a large light "popped up" and a jet aircraft dove from above and flew directly at it. The light began a rapid movement to the north, with the aircraft following! Since that time, I have observed a variety of jet aircraft patrolling the skies flying patterns for hours on a nightly basis. When the "lights" began appearing I contacted local law enforcement, the local civilian and military airfields, the local newspaper, and UFO investigators. On March 27, 2002, the witness saw a bright fluorescent creme color light pop up at 8:45 PM that shimmers blues, greens, and reds. I observed the light for three minutes before it moved in what I have come to believe is a very deliberate track or pattern, which is repeated in almost all "sightings." Thanks to Brian Vike CANADIAN SIGHTINGS CONTINUE TORONTO -- Cindy writes, there seems to be more activity up here in Mississauga, just west of Toronto, than I've been aware of in the past. My son and I saw something strange about three weeks ago now. Last night, I struck up a conversation with a couple of ladies in a restaurant. Anyway, they told me that on Saturday night (April 6), they both witnessed an object shoot down from the sky. She said, it was red and after it landed, she saw smoke. She tried to tell her husband about it, but he discounted her. From her description, it sounded like a meteor hit not far from her home. TELKWA MOUNTAINS, BRITISH COLUMBIA -- Brian Vike writes, I just saw the tape of a UFO over the mountains. My first impression was WOW! It looked exactly like a comet but with a short flaming tail. It was huge! The object was heading towards the Telkwa Mountains range at a high altitude. The front of this object looked like the front of a bullet but was very large. The flames were massive and fanned out into a V shape which followed close behind. Actually it reminded me of the space shuttle with flames coming out. It was very slow moving because the witness went inside to grab her camera and she still caught this object on tape for sometime afterwards. I must say I am impressed by this and right now have no idea what this was. This was "not" space debris. SMITHERS -- The witness came out of the Hollywood Video store at 10:00 P.M. got into his car and starting driving down the road, when something caught his eye. He could see the object rather well and pulled over to watch on February 1, 2002. He saw it fly over the town for five minutes descending like a para-glider with "one" bright white light that would go bright or dim. The witness mentioned that para-gliders often flew off Hudson Bay Mountain but no one flies at night since it is too dangerous. The object would have been about the size of a para-glider if you were standing next to it, but the object was flying at about 1500 feet so it was probably much larger. It slowly made turns over the town of Smithers in the overcast weather. The witness did not know who or where to report this, until he read the UFO article in the newspaper. Investigators Note: There is more than normal air traffic around our area after these sightings indicating government interest. This is also confirmation to the February 1, 2002, sighting in which three ladies witnessed a large boomerang shaped object 3 kilometers east of Telkwa. SOUTHBANK, B.C. -- Midsummer two years ago, I saw a red light that kept moving back and forth at about 10:45 PM. A week later, I observed the same thing and my first instinct was that it was mapping something. That winter, my husband and I both saw three white and possibly red lights that were on the same machine. These lights were moving over the east side of Mollice Lake. This light continued back and forth at a fairly good clip and was stopping and turning faster than anything that Canada has. I pointed directly at it, and it took off incredibly fast over Stick Hill. A month and a half ago my husband and I took a night walk and while laying on the snow we saw six lights with quite a bit of distance between them moving in a V pattern. Thanks to Brian Vike. GERMANY LIGHTS PROBABLY A BOLIDE METEOR Ac BAVARIA -- On April 6, 2002, strange lights in the sky baffled Bavarians late on April 6, 2002, as hundreds of panicked callers jammed police telephone lines seeking an explanation. Reports of an unsettling late-night natural light show came from all over the Southern German state. "It was like a huge fireworks." Pilots flying into Munich airport radioed the control tower with reports of unusual lights in the sky. Ufologist Joachim Koch reports the strange lights were a large bolide meteor, which exploded in the atmosphere. A piece of debris, which was still luminous when it came down, fell into the garden of a Bavarian farmer, who turned it over to the police. As told by Koch, "Preliminary analysis suggests it to be a piece of a meteorite." Thanks to The Electric Warrior :http://www.electricwarrior.com AUSTRALIA - CLOSE ENCOUNTER WITH 'SILVERY PEOPLE ABC News / March 24, 2002, reports, "The Northern Territory's Wycliffe Well Roadhouse may be famous for its UFO sightings in the sky, but it seems there has now been a ground encounter." Lou Farcus has been a resident at Wycliffe Well for the last 17 years and says workers on the Alice Springs to Darwin railway at a site west of the roadhouse have also seen unusual lights in the sky. Mr. Farcus says several weeks ago an Aboriginal woman had a close encounter. "Her knowledge of the area gave her the instinct it wasn't anything to do with the army or the railway so she turned round to go back and have a look at it and saw this triangular sort of object in the paddock and all of a sudden she saw these silvery character looking people who started coming towards the vehicle, so she quickly turned around and took off," Mr. Farcus said. Thanks to Gary Farshores farshores@canada.com BRISBANE -- AAP Resident in the Brisbane suburbs of Redcliffe and Caboolture have reported four UFO sightings on March 30, 2002, police said. A police spokesman said two bright discs were seen hovering over Clontarf - later moving on to Beachmere. "We received the first call at about dusk, and the Caboolture police were also receiving sighting reports. KANGAROO POINT CLIFFS --I am a subscriber and regular reader of Filer's Files and have noticed that there seems to be an increasing amount of reports about "Flying Triangles." On February 9, 2002, I was being dropped home by some adamantly non-UFO-believing friends and we had stopped outside my home on the Kangaroo Point Cliffs. While we were saying our good-byes Julie, who was in the back seat, pointed up through the windscreen and said "look at that triangle -- it's wobbling" -- as though the wobbling was the only thing out of the ordinary. I looked up immediately and saw a colorless equilateral triangle at about 5,000 feet altitude and was about 2 cm in size on each side. It remained stationary for a couple of seconds while wobbling, then sped off to the west at a very high speed and vanished. This is the third mysterious aircraft I have seen since December. Randal.Foley@citec.com.au farshores@canada.com ROSWELL MUSEUM TALK I will be speaking at the Roswell Museum, New Mexico on May 11, 2002, concerning the Roswell crash of the East case that took place at Fort Dix/McGuire Air Force Base on January 18, 1978. MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL that costs only $35 per year by contacting MUFONHQ@aol.com. or soon to be HQ@mufon.com.. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Regards, George A. Filer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 11 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 15 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:51:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:27:33 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 15 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 7, Number 15 April 9, 2002 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ GREEN FIREBALL SIGHTED OVER SINGAPORE An unusual green fireball appeared over the island nation of Singapore on the night of Friday, March 29, 2002. Muhammad Zailan Bin Mohd Zain, a self-described "aircraft spotter," was driving west on the East Coast Parkway from Changi International Airport to downtown Singapore at 9 p.m. Then, as he looked to his left out the window, he saw an unusual green light approaching from the south. "I wish to share my experience," Muhammad reported, "On March 29, 2002, I was travelling on the ECP to my home from Changi after my aircraft sighting activities. I saw something streak past in the night sky above my head." "At first I thought the flying object was an RSAF (Royal Singapore Air Force--J.T.) aircraft undertaking night training. Upon closer look, it looked like a streaking meteorite, but it was green in colour. I was shocked when I spotted the flying object. The flying object eventually plummeted into the sea off the East Coast beach. I am still not sure what the flying object was. It was truly an unidentified flying object." (Email Form Report) MYSTERIOUS LIGHTS DAZZLE THOUSANDS IN GERMANY Mysterious lights in the night sky dazzled thousands of people in the southern states of Bayern (Bavaria) and Baden- Wuerttemberg in Germany on Saturday, April 6, 2002. "Hundreds of panicked callers jammed police telephone lines, seeking an explanation for the phenomenon." "Reports of an unsettling late-night light show came from all over the southern German state (Bayern) as well as the neighboring region of Baden-Wuerttemberg." "'It had nothing to do with the weather. But I don't think little green men from Mars have landed in Bavaria. It was something burning out in the atmosphere,' a meteorologist said." "'It was like a large firework,' a Reuters TV correspondent in Munich said, describing the display. 'You could even see it through half-closed blinds. It lasted around three seconds,' she said." "Pilots flying into Munich airport radioed the control tower with reports of unusual lights in the sky." "The German police said NASA scientists initially thought the light was caused by space junk--floating debris in the Earth's atmosphere--but later said they were still unsure." The Bundeswehr (German army) "reported no unusual movements on its radar." "Scientists said the lights may have been the result of a meteor breaking up" as it entered Earth's atmosphere. "'There are no signs of impact or damage. We can't say what it was,' a police spokesman said." (See the Suddeutsche Zeitung for April 7, 2002; also the Manila Times for April 7, 2002. Many thanks to Loren Coleman, Steve Wilson Sr., Gerry Lovell, Jose Gonzalez and Louise A. Lowry for forwarding these newspaper articles.) UFO CRASHES BEACH PARTY IN NORTHWESTERN MEXICO On Sunday, March 31, 2002, during the evening, 12 people were having a beach party near Puerto Penasco, on the shores of Mexico's Sea of Cortez when they spotted a bright UFO just offshore. "We were camping on the beach in Puerto Penasco, Mexico, when we saw what we thought was a shooting star," one of the witnesses reported, "We watched it fall over the ocean and then stop over the ocean and spin around, flashing colors of red, white and bluish-green." "It stood out over the ocean for about 40 minutes, and it just disappeared. We had binoculars, and we could see it with the naked eye. There were 12 of us who saw the same thing. This happened on March 31, 2002 at around 9 p.m." Puerto Penasco is in Mexico's state of Sonora, located about 335 kilometers (210 miles) northwest of Hermosillo, the state capital. (Many thanks to Louise A. Lowry for forwarding this report.) GIANT UFOs REPORTED BY HUNDREDS IN ARGENTINA "It could have been the start of an X-Files episode, but in fact it was a phenomenon seen two nights ago(i.e. Monday, April 1, 2001--J.T.) in Rosario and neighboring communities" in Argentina. The city of Rosario is 200 kilometers (120 miles) northwest of Buenos Aires, the capital of Argentina. "At 8:07 p.m., an unidentified flying object crossed a magnificent starry sky on April 1 in a north- northeasterly direction at an altitude of 600 meters (2,000 feet)." "According to Fuerza Aerea Argentinera (Argentinian Air Force-- J.T.) sources who witnessed the event, a 'perfect, semi- transparent sphere measuring between 30 and 50 meters (100 and 165 feet) in diameter' moving from Funes to Rosario, was seen between 8:07 and 8:12 p.m., when, after stopping abruptly in its north-northeast heading, it vanished into the night." "Although there are those who sought a UFO explanation, astronomers favor a 'natural explanation.' For example, that the object could have been an electrical discharge in the atmosphere, a common phenomenon on clear nights." "There were even those who claimed the object had a lighted center. Yesterday morning (Tuesday, April 2, 2002), phone calls made to a radio station in the city (Rosario) testified to the sightings made by other listeners." "But not only residents of Rosario were treated to the event: calls came in from the southern part of the province, places such as Hughes, Acebal and Uranga," and also "Pergamino in Buenos Aires province and Las Varillas in Cordoba province." "Some of them claimed that the sphere has also been seen elsewhere." Argentina's National Weather Service "also ventured the theory that it could be a bank of cirrus clouds, which 'due to the reflection of light on ice crystals created a strange shape'...a common phenomenon when making the transition from cloudy skies to a clear atmosphere." "Marcos Machado, scientific director of (Argentina's) Comision Nacional de Actividades Espaciales (National Commission for Space Activities--J.T.), said, "These things that people attribute to the UFO phenomenon interest me precisely because I am a skeptic.'" "He presented two arguments. One, that what is seen by many people cannot be dismissed as 'an imaginary or invented event' but rather 'is a real one.' Second, that the explanation of such things must be found in nature. 'These phenomena tend to occur on dry-weather days and without any precision. I could venture the theory that it was a ball of incandescent gas resulting from an electrical discharge in the atmosphere.'" Yet, the same evening, hundreds of kilometers to the north in La Pampa province, residents reported a gigantic "flying city" rather than a sphere. According to Quique Mario, "Eyewitnesses claimed to have seen a strange phenomenon Monday night (April 1, 2002). The phenomenon in question happened to be a 'lenticular cloud' that crossed the province of La Pampa at moderate speed in a north to south direction." (Editor's Note: That's almost the exact opposite of the course flown by the Rosario sphere.) "Hundreds of witnesses argued that the sight was 'beautiful' since their skies were clear, and the sun had already set between 8:10 and 8:30 p.m. People driving along different highways noticed the phenomenon, and those dwelling in the western neighborhoods of Santa Rosa were also able to see them. "According to the description," Quique Mario said, "We have precedents to this case. One on June 20, 1980, another on October 31, 1982, and two more in 1986 and 1998. On the last occasion, a number of hunters claimed having seen what they described as 'a city suspended in space' emerging from 'within the gigantic circle.'" (See the newspaper La Capital of Buenos Aires for April 3, 2002. Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, autor de los libros Chupacabras and Other Mysteries y Forbidden Mexico, y Alicia Rossi para eso articulo de diario. Gracias tambien a Quique Mario del Centro de Estudios Ufologicos, CEUFO, para esas informaciones.) TWO MEN SPOT UFOs OVER SOUTH AUSTRALIA'S COORONG On Tuesday, April 2, 2002, Luke Mazelis and a friend visited Coorong National Park in South Australia where they had an encounter with UFOs. "Tuesday night me and my friend Bronte went down to the Coorong to do some spearfishing for flounder. We arrived at Long Point after 7:30 p.m. that night, had a barbecue, then spearfished for around three hours, finishing at around 11:45 p.m." "While my friend was putting some gear into the 4WD (sport utility vehicle or SUV here in the USA--J.T.), I was facing the south, looking at the massive sand dunes that were in between us and the ocean," Luke reported, "The sky was completely overcast with stratocumulus cloud around 25 to 30 thousand feet." "Dead on midnight, I caught sight of a bright object, a light with red tinges, sitting approximately 10 degrees off (above) the horizon, above the sand dunes in the distance. It looked similar to an aircraft landing light, which is what at first I believed it to be." "However, from my aviation knowledge, I knew the area to be nowhere near any High Altitude Airways, nor standard arrival (approach) routes into Adelaide (the state capital of South Australia--J.T.). The time also puzzled me, as no civilian aircraft, except for RFDS (Regional Flying Doctor Service--J.T.) could be flying in this area at that time, due to Noise Abatement at either Adelaide International or Parafield Airports." "From first sighting the object, it remained stationary for approximately 30 to 40 seconds, then began moving at a rapid rate towards the west. The object remained at the same altitude while moving westwards. By this time, my interest had aroused enough to call Bronte over from the 4WD to have a look. Before he could turn around, the object disappeared completely." "Approximately two minutes later, the object reappeared in a similar position at where I had first sighted it. This time I immediately called Bronte to look at it. For around a minute or two, we observed the object moving westwards again, repeatedly stopping and starting its movements, but always moving toward the west. The object could stop completely, remaining motionless as if it were a helicopter hovering. It would then accelerate incredibly. It then stopped, shot upwards as if it were a rocket, and completely disappeared." "However, at 11 minutes past 1 a.m. (Wednesday, April 3, 2002), four bright object appeared due south. These objects looked significantly smaller than the initial one, so we felt sure that they were quite some distance away. The objects were as if they were almost some kind of aircraft, although their movements were absolutely phenomenal." "They danced around each other, running circles around one another, darting in every direction possible at a rate of speed that I could not even estimate.. But as fast as they would accelerate, they also would perform aerobatic-style movements and accelerate around the motionless object." "During this sighting, two of the objects started moving towards us, at incredible speed, most definitely becoming larger in size as they headed in our direction. By this stage, myself and Bronte became quite panic- stricken, as we realized that, whatever these objects were, they were heading in our direction- -fast!" "We were by ourselves in a remote area of the Coorong, with the closest town being 35 kilometers (21 miles) away. The objects never did get any closer, though. Just as they looked in one second as if they would be over us, they then stopped, and headed back to the other two objects further south." "We continued to watch the sky until quarter past two (2:15 a.m.) with nothing more happening. We then packed our gear and headed for home back in Adelaide." (Email Form Report) MORE STRANGE SIGHTINGS IN THE PALOUSE AREA OF WASH. Heavy UFO activity was reported the Palouse "wheat belt" of eastern Washington state on Tuesday night, April 2, 2002. From his ranch in Tyler, Wash., a town on Highway 904 southwest of Spokane, the middle-aged male eyewitness reported, "It started at around 8 p.m. with a number of smaller lights coming in from the west and then moving downward and flickering out." "After between 15 and 20 minutes, I would see a bright flare over or near the ground where the light had disappeared, and then see the light going to about 1,000 to 2,000 feet (300 to 600 meters) above the ground and continuing towards the northeast." "At about 10 p.m., a much brighter, bigger light moved into a location nearer to me--I estimate between 5 to 8 miles (8 to 12 kilometers) away. The light was primarily cream-flourescent- colored and configured in two bright headlings, (Editor's Note: Looking like this.......O O....) although at times I thought I could see smaller lights and a perimeter as well. The lights flared up real bright, and I was snapping pictures like mad, going from longer to shorter shutter speeds to try to capture some detail. After about one to two minutes, the lights dimmed, rotated and began moving away towards the west." "I then saw a dull orange 'smudge' near the horizon which was quite large. I initially thought it was the sodium vapor lights of a housing development. When I looked at it through my camera/telescope, I could see a very large dull orange shape tilting up and moving away from me towards the west. About a minute later, I could see a very faint red light and a blue light on a plane, moving away in unison, as if they were attached to some solid object. These lights were at least 10 to 15 miles (16 to 25 kilometers) away from me, but from the distance between the red and blue lights, I would conservatively guess that the object was at least a quarter-mile (400 meters) in length!" "I kept shaking my head and muttering to myself, 'What the hell- -!?' And I kept thinking, This just cannot be--!" and he kept observing through his Meade 200x telescope. (Many thanks to Brian Vike for forwarding this report.) "SPARKLY" UFO SIGHTED OVER CEDARVALE, BRITISH COLUMBIA The UFO flap in northern British Columbia continues with a new event reported in Cedarvale, B.C. On Wednesday, April 3, 2002, at around 8 p.m., a woman was sitting on the front steps of her home in Cedarvale when she saw "what appeared to be a 'sparkly' star, flashing red and green, moving in a box-like pattern." She reported, "I phoned my mother and I remained in contact with her for about one hour while all this was going on." "8:30 p.m.--Very, very bright, very, very low-flying object moving steadily (east) toward Kitwanga, B.C. in a straight line, floating by the right of where I was sitting, on the front steps." "8:40 p.m.--Another small white star moving steady in a straight line, moving south." "8:50 p.m.--What appeared to be a jet plane, complete with the jet sound, with flashing red (navigation) lights went by in a southeasterly direction, going directly past the sparkly star. I could see the outline of the jet plane, and it was very large and 'metallic.' The neighbours' dogs started to howl and then to bark--as did my dogs and those living across the Skeena River on the (Provincial) Highway 16 side." "9:50 p.m.--By this time it was so far up in the sky that it looked just like an ordinary star." "During the time-frame, I flashed my flashlight at the thing three times like 'on-off/on-off/on-off,' and nothing happened." (Many thanks to Brian Vike for this report.) BRIGHT ORANGE UFO SEEN IN CHARLESTOWN, INDIANA On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 7:20 p.m., Gary S. was at his home in Charlestown, Indiana (population 5,993) when he "went out to look at the comet. It was twilight, and I noticed a bright orange light just above the horizon. At first I thought it was a planet with the sunlight reflecting off its atmosphere. Then, after a few minutes, it started moving in a west-northwest direction. I thought it was pretty strange, because it was moving so quickly--too quickly for a planet--and it was moving in the wrong direction to be a satellite. Also, planets and satellites do not stay in one spot for five minutes and then start moving." Gary added that the object "was orange, it appeared round, and it was as big around as a pencil lead in diameter." Charlestown, Ind. is on Highway 62 about 15 miles (25 kilometers) northeast of Louisville, Kentucky. (Email Form Report) LARGE CIRCULAR UFO SEEN IN CENTRAL WISCONSIN On Saturday, April 6, 2002, a male resident of Lyndon Station, Wisconsin reported, "My son came home at almost 10:30 p.m. and said there were strange lights in the sky. I went out to look and had my wife observe also. The object consisted of eight large white lights found in a large circle. The entire circle was rotating clockwise slowly. There was a 300-foot (90-meter) cloud ceiling." "Whatever this was supposed to be was just above the clouds. The clouds gave the lights an opaque effect. It (the UFO) seemed to throw light off in one part of its rotation, kind of like a water sprinkler throwing water, but just in one spot. It would have taken six hands to cover it. Quite large!" "It was east of our location. It was stationary for maybe 10 minutes, then began a slight movement to the southwest, and disappeared in the blink of an eye." Lyndon Station, Wis. is on Highway 12 about 12 miles (19 kilometers) northwest of the Wisconsin Dells and about 22 miles (36 kilometers) northwest of Madison, the state capital. (Many thanks to John Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for forwarding this report.) UCONN SCIENTIST IS WORKING ON A TIME MACHINE "Ronald Mallett, a physicist at the University of Connecticut, believes he knows how to build a time machine--an actual device that could send something or someone from the future to the past, or vice versa." "He's not joking." "Unlike other scientists who have pondered the science of time travel, the 57-year-old professor has devised a machine he believes could transport anything from an atom to a person from one time to another." "'I'm not a nut....I hope to have a working mock-up and start experiments in the fall,' Mallett said, 'I would think I was a crackpot, too, if there weren't other colleagues I knew who were working on it.. This isn't Ron Mallett's theory of matter; it's Einstein's theory of relativity. I'm not pulling things out of the known laws of physics.'" "But Alan Guth, a physics professor at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology--J.T.), who has studied the theory of time machines, said he isn't sure it's even theoretically possible to travel through time. As far as whether time travel is a possibility, he says: 'Definitely not within our lifetimes.'" "Another physicist, Stanley Deser, a professor at Brandeis University" in Boston, Mass. "who recently co- wrote a paper titled Time Travel? said the problem is not the physics, it's the feasibility of making time travel work." "'This is about trying to amass all the matter of the universe in a very small region,' he said, 'Good luck.'" "After 27 years at UConn (University of Connecticut-- J.T.), Mallett has the confidence of his boss, William Stwalley, chairman of the university's physics department. 'His ideas certainly have merit,' Stwalley said, 'I think some of his ideas are very interesting, and they would make nice tests of general relativity.'" "Mallett's plan doesn't require some sort of sleigh, the means of travel in H.G. Wells' The Time Machine, or reaching 88 miles per hour in a DeLorean as in the movie Back to the Future. His time machine merely uses a ring of light." "According to Einstein's theory of gravity, anything that has mass or energy distorts the space and passage of time around it, like a bowling ball dropped on a trampoline. Circulating laser beams in the right way, by slowing them down and shooting them through anything from fiber-optic cable to special crystals, might create a similar distortion that could theoretically transport someone through different times, Mallett believes." "The professor and his UConn colleagues plan to build a device to test whether it's possible to transport a sub- atomic particle, probably a neutron, through time. The energy from a rotating laser beam, Mallett hopes, would warp the space inside the ringof the light so that gravity forces the neutron to rotate sideways. With even more energy, it's possible, he believes, a second neutron would appear. The second particle would be the first one visiting itself from the future." "While Mallett acknowledges that sending a person through time may require more energy than physicists today know how to harness, he sees it merely as 'an engineering problem.' If it's possible to use light to send a neutron through time, a feat that doesn't require as much energy as sending a human, it wouldn't be long before engineers figure out a way to send a person." "'What we're talking about is at the edge of current technology, not beyond current technology,' he said." "Since his father, a heavy smoker, died at the age of 33 when Mallett was 10 years old, Mallett has longed for a way to travel back in time to warn him about the dangers of cigarettes." "For most of his career, however, Mallett kept secret that his desire for time travel had drawn him to become a physicist. It wasn't until a few years ago, when he began researching a book on the topic, that he arrived at his idea of how to build a time machine." (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for April 7, 2002, "For physicist, time warp is more than fantasy," page 17A.) ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA: Concerning the recent UFO sighting in Hugo, Oklahoma (See UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 14, "Luminous UFO seen over, Hugo, Oklahoma," page 7), the eyewitness in this sighting was female, not male. The Roundup regrets the error. From the UFO Files... 1897: UFO SIGHTED OVER FONTANELLE, IOWA The first UFO flap to command widespread headlines in the USA was "The Great Airship Mystery." The first such "airships" were sighted in Oakland, California in November 1896 and, after a brief wintertime lull, the flap exploded anew 105 years ago, in April 1897, with sightings all over the USA's Midwestern states. Here is an actual "airship" news story from April 13, 1897, which appeared in the old Chicago Chronicle. "Fontanelle, Iowa, April 12 (1897): The airship was seen here at 8:30 (p.m.) tonight and was viewed by the whole population." "It came from the south-east and was not over 200 feet (60 meters) above the tree-tops and moved very slowly, not to exceed ten miles per hour (16 kilometers per hour). The machine could be plainly seen, and is described as being 60 feet (18 meters) in length, and the vibration of the wings could be plainly seen." "It carried the usual colored lights, and the working of the machinery could be heard, as also could the strains of music as from an orchestra." "It was hailed but passed on to the north, seeming to increase its speed, and disappeared. There is no doubt in Fontanelle that it is the real thing, and is testified to by the most prominent citizens, etc." Fontanelle is in Adair County, on Highway 92, about 30 miles (48 kilometers) southwest of Des Moines, the state capital of Iowa. (See the Chicago Chronicle for April 13, 1897, "Airship Seen In Iowa," page 1. Also the book Passport to Magonia by Jacques Vallee, Contemporary Books, Inc., Chicago, Illinois, 1993 edition, pages 142 and 143.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:50:06 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:07:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 23:15:57 -0400???? >From: Virginia Davey <vmdavey@idirect.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 +0000 >>Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>Sorry, I can't be too sympathetic to people who complain about >>not being catered to with UFO information at their whim because >>they are poor or not part of the alleged 'elite'. Anyone who >>thinks I am even moderately 'wealthy' has not visited my home. >>Many of us bust our butts to do the best research we can, >>publish it or distribute it any way we can, and then take a lot >>of flack for not providing our work free to any armchair `buff' >>who wants it while sinking ever deeper into debt. >Forgive me, but don't you think you are getting pissed-off at >the wrong people? Those of us who can only take a passive >interest in the subject are on your side. We are your audience. >I understand and sympathize with your frustration, especially >in light of your huge contribution to the field, a contribution >that represents thousands of hours of work with little to no >remuneration. Would it not be better to express that >frustration without resorting to terms such as "catered to" and >"armchair 'buff'"? We should save that ammunition for debunkers. >Don't you agree? Virginia, I appreciate your recognition of my contributions, but I don't quite agree with you about where my frustration should be directed. For many years I have directed it at the kooks and con-men, the debunkers, and at the scientists (and other VIPs) who - for whatever reasons - don't pay attention to the serious evidence. Therefore, when on top of that, the 'armchairpersons'(how's that?) pile on and complain, I have no sympathy (sorry). I think _their_ criticisms are misdirected. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:56:24 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:10:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Will Buech=E9 <willb3d@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:48:22 -0400 >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 +0000 >>Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Richard Hall wrote "mainstream acceptance requires a purging of >New Age nonsense and a careful presentation of hardcore data to >opinion makers in society." >Depends on what you mean by "New Age nonsense", but if you mean >(for example) everything that experiencers describe as being >what they've _learned_ from their experiences, then that would >be going too far. The only reliable instrument for learning >about these experiences that we know of is from people's >reports, and whatever insights they may have should be examined >(preferably the general trends, not individual reports) and >presented. <snip> >I am ranting at more than Hall here (as I said at the start, I >don't know quite he meant to condemn). So I'll continue, >trusting that everyone understands this is just a rant. <snip> Will, Rant away; I guess you're entitled. But your message strikes me as a perfect example of what I was saying: Obviously you have not read, studied, comprehended my book. If you had, you would see that there is a lot of physical evidence, lots of patterns, lots of consistencies, pointing to a very real, physical phenomenon. Which requires no sloppy New Age thinking or language to encompass. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:10:10 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:19:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Will Buech=E9 <willb3d@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:48:22 -0400 >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 +0000 >>Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Richard Hall wrote "mainstream acceptance requires a purging of >New Age nonsense and a careful presentation of hardcore data to >opinion makers in society." Dear Will... List and Errol, So how come we've not heard from you more often? Words which should make some of the research community feel like hanging their heads in shame. The word "Elitist" is not ill-used either. Maybe it's the take. For example, I believe that this List consists of the 'elite' of the research community. Someone else may say, "Well sure, but what has the 'elite' done for us, the abductee?" My response is, "nothing worth anything at all." Does not mean that the research community is not trying. But neither does is mean that the research community is _not_ trying at times. Very trying. See? >Depends on what you mean by "New Age nonsense", but if you mean >(for example) everything that experiencers describe as being >what they've _learned_ from their experiences, then that would >be going too far. The only reliable instrument for learning >about these experiences that we know of is from people's >reports, and whatever insights they may have should be examined >(preferably the general trends, not individual reports) and >presented. Perhaps Mr. Hall, who in the past I've admired, has a penchant for seeking the truth of others when in fact, he should be seeking the truth. This applies to all of research. I say that I've admired Dick Hall. Admiration does not extend to Hall as a person, only as a researcher. I don't know him. >But I grant you, any material that comes from many people with >different levels of education and backgrounds could benefit from >some informed commentary. Their descriptions of interactions may >use some "new age" terms, but from there it is up to people with >backgrounds in theoretical physics or other fields to interpret >what the experiencers are describing into the more precise >language that you advocate. Hmmm. Interesting. And quite so. But please define "new age!" If you cant over to the New Age section of most bookstores, there you will find Mr. Hall's tomes along with stuff about angels and channeling. So why don't you call the bookstore and tell them you want a special section on just UFO and Abduction research? I just tried something with my dog. He loves those cleaned baby carrots that come from the Jolly Green man. He also loves doggie treats. I took one carrot and placed it in my closed left fist, a treat in my right closed fist. He's a 9 month old pup. I gave him a choice. I said, whilst holding out the left hand, "Carrot?" and proceeded to do the same with my right closed fist and said, "Treat?" He was rather confused. Making that decision was difficult for him. It's difficult for someone of reduced formal education (or for that matter, increased religious fervor) to make some kinds of decisions. What the hell is it _I_ want from this experience? A carrot or an IAMS treat? Aliens or Angels? Hardware or interdimensional characters? What do I want, New Age or UFOs? That's tough on some people. I've always denigrated my higher education in part because when I first received my Ph.D., I lost my job. Then I could not find one unless I lied by omission and just said that I had a BSEE and an MBA. Lastly, I lied yet again by omission and got a good job by merely saying I had that BSEE. There are a few messages up there. People do not understand their perceived experiences let alone how to define them in general terms. So some others do it for them. Some hypnotherapists, during regression, plant the seed, I am certain that it is done without malice aforethought. Some researchers write a book and think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, to someone with no education at all, with only his or her religion as a baseline, Dick Hall's book is as far away at fifty bucks as it would be at a nickel. And Mr. Hall, for whom was this work intended? And yes, I spent the nearly sixty bucks to get it. Haven't read it yet, as I am rather preoccupied of late. The perceived abductee puts a good deal of himself in those experiences. And much comes from background, education, culture et al. It's up to you, the researcher, to help sort it all out, rather than denigrate it. What the hell are you trying to do? Help someone or help yourself? >As a start, could someone please attempt to interpret what is >meant by "vibration" (as in "the beings seem to come from >another level of reality, entering our reality by lowering their >vibration to match ours")? Even experiencers wince when they >have to resort to using that term, but it is as close as they >can get to describing what they've learned. The term "vibration" >has been kicking around the sixties, hasn't it? And still no >translation from the noble scientists? The term is used profoundly often in the world of the paranormal as relates to channeling and the spirit world. Theory seems to be that spirits and perhaps other entities live in another dimension. That dimension is on a higher plane. Or a different one. Then there is the physics of string theory which attempt to describe how everything vibrates with a frequency of it's own and that like the theory of the electron in a box, determines much about out physical world. Cogito, ergo... is physics now assuming the low bow of New Age? >All this so-called New Age-talk, far from being babble, is an >admirable attempt to describe things. I have no doubt that if >someone described something as huge, blue, wet and salty, some >learned person could say, hey, that's an ocean. But when it >comes to this phenomenon, it seems some people would rather >study photos of frisbees than enlist people from different >disciplines to apply their scientific language to the language >of the greater public. Thank you Will. It is not often I read common sense. >I am ranting at more than Hall here (as I said at the start, I >don't know quite he meant to condemn). So I'll continue, >trusting that everyone understands this is just a rant. >As there is essentially no physical evidence, the concentration >of research into physical evidence has resulted in fifty years >of failure. That has done great damage to the general acceptance >of the phenomenon. You want to win public acceptance? Begin by >admitting that maybe there isn't any physical evidence, and >further, that the fifty years of failure was therefore likely >due to not asking the right questions, not taking a different >approach. Not applying the right skills, or drawing on the right >disciplines. Good thinking. The failure is evident. Those who've failed however, fail to see the evident. >Perhaps by hard-core data, Hall meant statistical information, >and if so I must apologize for using his message as the >inspiration for this rant. But I just want to suggest that a >fifty year search for physical evidence of an experience that >may not even be _capable_ of leaving physical evidence is a >reason, possibly THE reason, that has caused some people to >dismiss the experiences. Oh, there is physical evidence. But it is all too often like unto the stigmata. How do you deal with that? >(Not capable of leaving physical evidence? What do I mean? As an >example: Give me a piece of the future, would you? Hand it to >me. You can't? Gee, but I am pretty sure the future exists...but >I guess not. No proof. If we're talking something >interdimensional here, I expect we'd be facing similar >situations, of interactions that leave no evidence). Face facts, there is all too little if nothing, we know about this phenomena. And truth also be known, we may be looking in the wrong places or times. Perhaps New Age has something to offer us? I surely do not know. But anyone who rejects out of hand, any study, is not a researcher. Just a person like doctors of old who claimed that it was utter nonsense that bugs which you could not see, even under optical magnification, could cause disease. My personal take is that somehow, this may very well be either a piece of underdone potato or it may be some sort of altered state caused by a change in the dimension in which these objects and the entities in them, must apply in order to take us. Or even be seen. It is the latter which I am beginning to embrace. If anyone wants an engine mount for a UFO, I have one right here. I'll sell it along with the Brooklyn Bridge. Both for only the price of an early Earl Shibe auto painting. Thirty-nine ninety-five. Jim Mortellaro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Current State Of Ufology From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:50:42 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:21:10 -0400 Subject: Current State Of Ufology I wrote this on a response to a posting on another List. As I thought about it, I thought I would throw the thought out here, with some modifications from the original. I trust I am not throwing red meat into shark infested waters...., As I have given thought to what has been discussed in both UFO publications and the various Lists that are around. In recent memory cases like the Trent case, AA, Portage County case, Betty & Barney Hill, implants, Roswell, MJ-12, alien abductions and abductees Greer, Disclosure, NIDS and others just to name a few that have been hashed, rehashed and revisted many times. Some people cringe at the thought of another post on a previous case such as AA. Personally I am not a supporter of AA, it does have its place in ufological history and has a right to be discussed on a List or in a publication. The same right that the Trent case, Exeter, Portage country, or any number of cases out of UFO history. With that background, I would make the observation that when you stop and think about how much information we have on 'fresh' cases as opposed to a case designated as a classic and or controverserial that happened in years gone by, I would venture to say not a great deal in the bigger picture of things. Consider the general UFO publications. Other then the new case blurbs in UFO publication X or a local newspaper article about a new case we are back to discussing some case that happened in years gone by. Generally speaking we don't see or hear any further write ups or investigation information. But should some new juicy bit of information, say about Gulf Breeze or other rather well known cases, guess which will get the multi-page write up? Probably the position of the various editors is that the only manuscripts they receive for publication is something about an old case. I have heard the claim that articles on current material and subjects are rejected essentially because the buying public is not interested and so the circle goes on. So if you think about it, the essence of 'current' ufology in the printed and Internet Lists is the discussion and commentary on older cases, with an appetizer if you will of current information. Personally I don't mind discussing the old, whether that be AA, Portage County, or any number of cases, as long as we also had a healthy helping of current cases. Sadly I suspect we won't. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:47:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:23:19 -0400 Subject: HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario Hi List Trying to keep up with the UFO front and do my baby sitting duties. Actually I love the babysitting duties the best. Anyway, here is a short report I received from a fellow back in Ontario. I am making arrangements to call and discuss his sighting in depth. Also everyone, I have received photos from two different sightings, so working on this, but not until later this weekend. Will keep you posted on everything. Take care Brian HBCC UFO ----- Hi, my name is (deleted by HBCC UFO) and during the summer of 1999 I saw what at the time was unexplainable... and as far as I am still aware still is... I am ex-military so this is my account, ruling out the possibility that it was a flare or falling meteorite or anything of that type... I was driving home from work on a beautiful clear cool summer night at about 2:30 am and as I approached my home town was startled to see a wolf standing at the edge of the highway (hwy 2)...But that in itself pales in comparison to what I saw next. As I looked at the wolf out of the car window something else caught my attention. What I saw was an orange red orb descending from the sky north of the town...now I know what a flare looks like and I'm telling you this was bright but it wasn't a flare, and whatever it was it went down behind the tree line and did not come back up..again why I know it was not a flare is because it's decent from what I saw started at to high an altitude.... If there have been or you have heard about anything similar to this please let me know, my email is (deleted by HBCC UFO)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 German UFO Large Meteorite From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:49:04 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:25:33 -0400 Subject: German UFO Large Meteorite Germany: UFO Was Large Meteorite - Professional Research Demanded Dear Errol, hello List, There's much unwarranted confusion about the meteorite event in south Germany on Sunday. Please read our press release: MUFON-CES demands professional UFO reporting and investigation center Alleged UFO reports have jammed official information channels Saturday night a large meteorite entered the atmosphere in southern Germany but remains yet to be found. It lighted the night sky and was followed by a sonic boom. The event had kept the police, sky observatories and weather stations busy all Sunday in pursuit of an explanation for the unexpected event. According to the public TV station ZDF =93thousands=94 of worried citizens called the police. As a result many officers were sent out for an investigation. Even an infra red camera equipped helicopter was launched. Resulting from the paralysis of the police by the many UFO reports, we, the Society for the Scientific Investigation of Anomalous Atmospherical and Radar Phenomena (MUFON-CES Inc.), demand the creation of a financed UFO reporting and investigation center in Germany. We can=92t exclude that in the future UFO sightings will cause much more turmoil and jam official information channels even more. If, as so far, true research can=92t be financed, requests, reports and calls for help will at least be channelled in an organized manner. In France such an official investigation center successfully works for now 25 years and without additional expenses. To channel UFO reports the SEPRA (formerly GEPAN) service has been set up. The actual research is then carried out by the French police and the cooperating authorities (Air control, armed forces, laboratories). The goal of MUFON-CES is to lift the discussion about UFOs to a scientific level and to inform colleagues about the phenomenon. Members of the society are open- minded in regard to the origin of Unidentified Flying Objects. However, members are convinced that UFOs represent real objects which cannot be identified. As we have noticed that there is much confusion, not only in Germany, but also in foreign countries, we urge you to duplicate this press release in your newsletter or bulletin or forward it to the media that have covered the event or might want to do so. I. v. Ludwiger Contact: Illobrand von Ludwiger Director Mutual UFO Network - Central European Section (MUFON-CES) eMail: Illobrand.von.Ludwiger@MUFON-CES.org This material is free for any kind of publication. Please visit http://www.mufon-ces.org and subscribe to our newsletter. Please subscribe to our Newsletter, we keep you updated. URL of this press release: http://www.mufon-ces.org/text/english/pr/2002-04-10.htm Hannes la Rue News & Webmaster MUFON-CES e.V. Gesellschaft zur Untersuchung von anomalen atmosph=E4rischen und Radar-Erscheinungen hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org www.mufon-ces.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Sceptibuking At Its Worst - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@mcgonaglenet.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:12:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:27:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Sceptibuking At Its Worst - McGonagle >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Sceptibuking At Its Worst >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:20:32 -0800 >Illusration Of Sceptibuking At Its Worst >Hello, all. Hello, "GT"/all, >The mind of a sceptibunker laid bare: >http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins040902.as [add a 'p' to the end of the URL to make it work-Joe] >First, I am not a big fan of National Review (talk about >'elite') but, this article has the classic illustration of the >mind of a scepti-bunker. The author saw the plane hit the >Pentigon, people died. yet there is a French author who says it >didn't happen. >At least he didn't blame flocking Pelicans. >The sceptical book is getting play in its home country. Never >mind many people saw the plane hit the Pentigon, including the >author of this atrticle. I think that you are getting "skeptibunking" confused with "conspiracy fabrication" (also known as lying for material gain)? The article by James Robbins is debunking the conspiracy... Just thought I should point this out. Cheers, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:54:25 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:29:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:10:10 EDT >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance -> Hello Jim, If it is alright with you, I'd kinda like to wade in here just a little. Two items: First, you and most Abductee's will be pleased (well, I sure hope you will) that a new discovery has been made regarding a couple of famous Abductees that I will be posting in the next couple of weeks. I'll give the abductees on the UFO Updates List a hint... Mississippi. <g> Secondly and I'm sure this will ruffle feathers, but I feel it must be aired and I'm thick-skinned (headed? <g>) enough to say it, that I believe the Abductee's are in serious error in demanding that answers or research must come from such researchers as Richard Hall, ah heck... make your own List. Here's why: The field of crypto-aeronautics (sorry everyone, but it's a much better term than Ufology because you can't lump channeling, crystals, angel's, big foot, mothman, fairies, hobgoblins, chupacabras, Marfa lights, purple-robed contactee wannabees, etc. within it's parameters...well, maybe only as an obscure footnote, but certainly not as a main research element) has become so complex that the days of keeping a handle on all aspects of the research has ended. It is now the time of specialization within the field (specialization is the evolved step toward building a science and the historical elements are the foundation upon which the science is built). Field researchers specialize and the armchair researcher are the generalists. Kind of like in the medical profession...the General Practioner and the Specialist. Both are extremely important. The G. P. has enough familiarization to know when a specialist needs to be consulted and the Specialist relies on the G. P. to see immediate need. It's an excellent methodoloy of working together. However, it seems to me from several years of reading UFO Updates posting from Abductees, that the frustration level of said Abductee's has reached its epitome. Further, although I can certainly sympathize with the Abductee, I've noticed that among the Abductee population are individuals who have leadership qualities, great insight, etc. into the abduction phenomenon as a whole and from a personal level. So my question is why the "whinning, bitching and moaning" about crypto-aeronautic researchers not giving 200% of their time and efforts or coming up with answers when there are already people such as yourself, Jim, that can formulate, coordinate and organize in building a coalition of Abductees to take on abduction research and give the non-specialist answers? Anyway, for what it might be worth and asked certainly asked rhetorically. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Alfred's Odd Observation #14 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:14:38 +0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:33:50 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Observation #14 Alfred's Odd Observation #14 (Sunday -- April 7, 2002) ...Another of those auspicious Sundays! The sky was, again, alive with _them_, forgetting the stationary strobes of flashing white light and meteors that left glowing trails for breathtaking seconds. This is forgetting lights flashing from the southern sky behind me, lighting outside walls to my front so I could see them reflected indirectly off the sides like the shadows off Plato's cave walls. What were those? Meteors or mother-ships, one or the other... It wasn't triple "K" flicking his ufological BIC; of that I am (reasonably) certain. It was a little on the chilly side also, putting a break on any insect noise, still dense air making the sound of over-flying aircraft _very_ plain. There was one of those, too, but just one... everything else conformed to the unsettlingly exciting anomalous (!) -- silent glowing orbs in my field glasses or wandering stars with the unaided eye. All were of varying warmer colors from dull red through golden cream to bright white. All the objects maintained sundry speeds and only general tracks in their characteristic meander through the very clear and moonless night. ...better than "Coast to Coast", forsaken this night for National Public Radio=85 as it happened. How many satellites was I supposed to be able to see this Sunday morning? Well, by NASA's prediction I was supposed to see exactly, uh... (let's see... add the first column, carry the one, divide by two, subtract the result... and final tally is...) none! Truly! J-Pass predicted exactly _none_ in the 24 hour period beginning 12 hours prior and ending 12 hours after the time of _my_ observation. Curious. The reader can begin to see what I mean about comparing data sets and finding them unsettlingly dissimilar, mentioned in a previous report. What I am seeing should be predicted _easily_ by J-Pass given the magnitudes of their individual brightness -- one would think. After all, NASA informs us straight out that we can use it for that purpose, and they're the 'scientists'=85 But, nothing is provided... which is predictable and typical of the contrived myopic mainstream science community. I had _eight_ sightings this morning between 04:30 and 05:30. To start I saw one of those stationary strobes I've seen infrequently over the years. A single strobe light flashing once very brightly (or dimly) every fifteen to thirty seconds, or so. It is stationary or makes random flitting movements in a single one or two degree area. I've written about this variety previously. The strobe flashes occur at varying intensities, too. As bright as mag. -6 (!) or as dim as mag. 2, or so. This morning's strobe was high in the east, stationary, and flashed a similarly varying brightness. Blink and you miss it. An unblinking stare is required with one of this type, and it is, therefore, a mite uncomfortable to observe. From then on I'd have a sighting every five or ten minutes, and on one occasion two of them together, though I don't think they _were_ together (they were on dissimilar meanders). At 04:40 the first headed south at a degree a second, about a magnitude zero and bright white in color. It was followed by a subsequent similar light five minutes later which performed in the exact same manner and in the exact same place. A third light appeared while the second was still visible! It was the same as the first two, but on a slightly different track. All lights reported were tiny orbs in my field-glasses. At 04:55 a brighter, redder orb moved slowly from the south to the north, directly overhead (as all this morning's objects had) at about one degree in three seconds. At 05:10 a dim red light appeared to the east as I watched, traveled very slowly to the left for 10 degrees of arc at one degree in six seconds, and then blinked out. Turning to the East just after the previous sighting, I was rewarded with a meteor that split the sky in a brilliant flash about 15 degrees long and so bright that it made me wince. In its silent wake a white-hot plasma lingered, churned, and glowed for several seconds. I listened hard for several more seconds for a report, but heard nothing in the cool quietness. At 05:15 a light of zero magnitude traversed the entire sky in a steady march to the north directly overhead. It was followed at 05:25 by another of the exact same type. I wonder, again, how many satellites I am supposed to be able to see? How can I see so many at once? Where do they go in the weeks when I _don't_ see them? What kind of craft crawls the uncovered sky like a tiny glowing insect, makes no sound, and continues to be so baffling? Somebody knows. So ends the litany of sightings for this iteration of the ongoing observation. I would likely have seen more, but I had been outside since three and I was ready for some house time. Consider, even a whirling dervish speaking in tongues and spitting green fire should get an eventual ho-hum if I saw it every morning... but then it's been years, now, and I've yet to get tired of looking at these peculiar objects plainly visible in a guileless sky and writing about them. Perhaps the odd reader is not getting tired reading about them, in a similar fashion. What is there to be seen, truly, astonishes. I wish I could point them out to you. I may yet! ALTV from three to five live every morning I can sustain [g]! I'll give you an earful. The satisfaction is in the new knowing. The perception that you're no longer being duped, priceless. And that brings the conversation around to us... what about us, the patent and facilitating uniformed? We _must_ be more than mere pond scum (if self-absorbed pond scum at that) to the conjectured -watcher- of our schizophrenic species -- Watchers that could be less than forthcoming with the masses (explaining _their_ part in the obvious secrecy) only because the 'mass-drivers' of our culture are less than forthcoming with us, themselves? They only follow, perhaps, the lead of our 'fearless' leaders? Somebody knows. Understandably, I perceive a reluctance by these something less than altruistic 'mass drivers' to give in the greater reality only because it bumps them from their ill-got cat-bird seat. That's the long short of it. They're pond scum (make no mistake), but they're high _class_ pond scum, damn it... those men and women allowed on the lifeboats -first- when the Titanic went down -- them and their psychological descendents. Who's to miss the common rabble but more common rabble? Who will miss you. Who will miss me. Them, when we are gone. The greater reality ebbs and flows around me, honored reader, as I watch these enigmatic lights conduct busy errands in the infinite halls of space above my head... I am encouraged and inspired by them. I am instructed and enlivened by them. I am galvanized, motivated and energized by them! I'd suggest that _you_ can be, too. Yet to be rattled from _my_ lucky perch (I feel like I "know" stuff -they- _get_ you for) I sense I can reach a little higher and grasp a little more of the firmer, more solid reality of a greater multi-verse populated with all manner of divergent ideas and the beings that have created them. Why not? Anything else courts hopelessness and the despair of eventual pointlessness. Nothing else has art. Nothing else has music. Anything else is a flashily empty Pepsi Commercial or the recently reincarnated "war on terrorism." Around me are trusted persons, moreover, convincing me that they are touched more directly than most are by that "larger reality." The immediacy of their position touches _me_ with the derision, lack of concern, and ridicule that they must endure as a result of a convenient mainstream denial of that "larger reality." More than touched I am irritated that so many have to be ground in the gears of a society that eats its young so a few gravid sociopaths can live out their canted destinies and the realization of selfish short term goals. More than irritated I am angered that the mainstream can be so blithely indifferent to the continuing reoccurrence of the ufological (and therefore sociological!) obvious. UFOs are REAL! Don't we get it? Moving back abruptly to the subject of "pond scum", we have the ultimate power of simple pond scum, presently, don't we? Like pond scum we are with regard to the whim of any errant asteroid or virulent bug; we are blown before our weather patterns and subject to the vagaries of shattering quake, rising flood and belching Earth. Are we but fragile insects dreaming that we have sentience, mere dust between the big winds of local chance and happenstance -- a fleeting pride before a sudden fall? We are all of those things; we are none of those things? Still, we know enough to ask the question, and there lies the beginnings of our salvation! It's _never_ been about the answers! It's the _questions_ that resolve the face of God. That's all anybody or anything _else_ is likely to have at the start. The better questions=85 It's a _great_ start... ...And I discover that at least _one_ of those motes of presupposing consciousness would reach out to touch the face of God, embrace the larger reality, or accept the inevitable evolution. At least _one_ of the mice dreaming he's a man would presume the awful but liberating self awareness provoked by actualizing the idea that we are not alone (much less the best) in our backwoods corner of deep, deep space. At least _one_ is self assured and confident enough to strike the sun if it offends him... Challenge faith! =85shake righteous fists at God and demand an explanation? I suspect that there are a few more with the efficacious temerity -- a temerity likely _more_ respected by God. ...Whiny supplicants piss _me_ off! [g]. But, that's enough for now. I remain watching the Pacific skies, presently, for the odd reportable. Let it be _my_ contribution to our Nation's civic duty. I couldn't be doing _anything_ more important. Read on! ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:46:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:52:05 -0400 Subject: Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:46:07 -0400 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Subject: International Petition Progress Report 01 Evening John <snip> >Everyone on this List (especially) should have signed it by >now. For my part, I downright forgot! Thanks for the reminder. Best Regards Sean -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:59:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:53:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 02:44:43 EDT >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com >>Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 20:25:08 >>+0000Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:39:40 -0400 >>Subject: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>No. 1, mainstream acceptance requires a purging of New Age >>nonsense and a careful presentation of hard-core data to opinion >>makers in society. Even then, the anti-UFO biases are very >>strong and I am not holding my breath. It is not the public-at- >>large so much that sneers at UFOs (polls show otherwise) as it >>is alleged scientists who remain blissfully ignorant of the >>serious data, and fear for their reputations. >I agree Richard. However, who decides what is too far out and >what is acceptable? Hi Jim Too far out is easy, anything not directly associated with Ufoolagy. I.E. The Chupacabra, The Mothman Prophesies (enjoyable film _but_ what the heck has it got to do with UFOs?), Crop Circles (all the fancy patterns are fake in my book), the abominable snowman, and the Yeti. These are Forteana _but_ not anything to do with UFOs! There seams to me to be a number of things that are thrown in the "pot" of Ufology that is not directly related to UFO's but is _associated_ with UFOs. Me being a hard core UFO person only, usually ditches anything relating to the above, usually without even reading it! However, from my experience, Joe Q Public associates all Forteana in one pot, therefor for Ufology to get scientific acceptance, it will have to distance itself from all the sundry _associated_ gumpth. Just my tuppence worth. -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:38:30 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:04:09 -0400 Subject: Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:46:07 -0400 >Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:42:08 -0400 >Subject: International Petition Progress Report 01 >To date we have accumulated 500 + signatures for the >International Petition to the UN. As good as that may sound to >some, the truth is that it is a 'relatively' poor showing. Everybody can spread information with a simple mouseclick! Everybody should send the petition and the request so sign it by way of their newsletter, mailing list, etc. It's got to spread and it's yet to start. Remember those snowball spam mails, where somebody wants someone to donate blood for his friend? That's the way. If everybody on this List sends the petition information to 10 people with the request to send it to 10 others, the snowball starts rolling. Make that 20 and... you know. Everybody who runs an internet site should make a visible link to the petition site! John, you should prepare text files for distribution and small banners that people can use for their sites. we still have one year! Cheers Hannes la Rue News & Webmaster MUFON-CES e.V. Gesellschaft zur Untersuchung von anomalen atmosph=E4rischen und Radar-Erscheinungen Germany hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org www.mufon-ces.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:07:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:08:01 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 01:45:05 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs <snip> >We are willing to discuss the article in a civilised way, but >will not be drawn into a slanging match with Clarke and Roberts >et al, who have made wild accusations and used selective quotes, >as is typical of their debunking tactics. Hello, Georgina/List, I can easily see how Dave Clarke got the impression that you have relied on his and Andy Roberts' work in unearthing the documents used in your article. It should be an easy matter to resolve, if you can answer the following three simple questions in detail: 1. What aspect(s) of the article do you/Nick regard as exclusive? 2. What specifically led you/Nick to request the files relating to report No. 7 from the PRO, and when was that? 3. The timing of the article may appear to some to be with the deliberate intention of pre-empting Andy and Dave's release of 'Out of the shadows' - is that the case, or was this just a coincidence? I hope this can be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. Thank you for your patience with what may seem to you to be trivial questions, but it is important to ufology - if people become afraid to publish early findings in case they are pre-empted, information exchange will be even more severely hampered than it is already. Regards, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Secrecy News -- 04/11/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:26:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:25:00 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/11/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 30 April 11, 2002 ** RUMSFELD SPEAKS OUT ON LEAKS ** NRO PUBLISHES NEWSLETTER RUMSFELD SPEAKS OUT ON LEAKS "I'm against leaks," said Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld yesterday, in case anyone wasn't sure. Rumsfeld commented incisively on "leaks" of classified information and a variety of other information policy issues in an interview with journalist Marvin Kalb at the annual convention of the American Society of Newspaper Editors. "The laws relating to classified information are quite strict as to who may be given access to that information," Rumsfeld said. "And so to the extent that people violate the rules with respect to classified information, they are breaking federal criminal law." "The other problem is what do you do about it," he continued. "I do not have time - nor does anyone I know have time to spend - to engage in witch hunts inside the department, trying to find [leakers]," he said. "Have you ever taken action against a Pentagon-leaker of information?" Kalb asked. "Not that I can think of," Rumsfeld replied. "If you start taking people who get up, work hard, care about the country, dedicated, and you don't know who leaked, and then you start calling in all these innocent people, and pretty soon you are slapping a heavy case on them that - 'You were only one of five people who knew this - we don't know whether to believe you or not.' And you think of the loss of productivity and the loss of morale, and the difficulty in an organization. My impression is we will find enough people who do it by accident, without going around chilling your own organization and distracting them from their very important work. So I just don't do it," Rumsfeld said. These comments have particular significance because of the ongoing official deliberations concerning the need for new legislation to combat unauthorized disclosures of classified information. Rumsfeld's remarks suggest that current law is already sufficiently strong ("quite strict") to serve as a deterrent against leaks. His comments further indicate that there are institutional obstacles to pursuing leakers ("loss of productivity and loss of morale") that new statutory prohibitions would do nothing to address and might even exacerbate. Secretary Rumsfeld also answered questions on official lying, the Office of Strategic Influence, and related topics. See the full text of his April 10 interview here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/04/dod041002.html A Justice Department report to Congress on the need for new legislation to criminalize leaks of classified information is due to be submitted by May 1. NRO PUBLISHES NEWSLETTER The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), the secretive intelligence agency that designs, builds and operates the nation's spy satellites, last year began publishing a new unclassified newsletter. The new "CSNR Bulletin" is published by the Center for the Study of National Reconnaissance (CSNR), a component of the NRO Office of Policy. "As its mission, CSNR studies the discipline of national reconnaissance, as well as policy issues associated with openness and declassification issues," according to the Bulletin masthead. "The main purpose of the CSNR Bulletin is to share information about national reconnaissance with current employees of the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), NRO alumni, and other Intelligence Community and public constituents who are stakeholders in the field," writes the Bulletin's Editor Robert A. McDonald. The first issue of the CSNR Bulletin (Winter-Spring 2001) contains reflections from the NRO Director and the NRO Historian on the NRO's 40th anniversary, as well as reports on the recent NRO Commission, and a summary of NRO declassification activities, among other items. It is posted here (in a 3.2 MB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/irp/nro/csnr2001-1.pdf The second issue of the CSNR Bulletin is now under review, an NRO spokeswoman said, and will probably be released some time next month. ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:51:44 -0400 Subject: Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:46:07 -0400 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Subject: International Petition Progress Report 01 >International Petition to the UN. As good as that may sound to >some, the truth is that it is a 'relatively' poor showing. >Especially in consideration of the fact that the number of >signatures does not even match/reflect the number of members of >this List alone. And that's not counting the thousands who >listen to SDI over the Internet! <snip> John, Banners are a good idea. I recommend designing more of 'em to fit the "look" of other websites out there and really spreading them around until they're as ubiquitous as "Get Netscape Now!" or whatever. You can't ignore what you see every time you go online. ===== >Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) (816) 561-0190 105 Ward Parkway #900, Kansas City, MO 64112 http://mactonnies.com -Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies- "He runs after facts like a beginner learning to skate, who, furthermore, practices somewhere where it is forbidden." --Franz Kafka
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: urrent State Of Ufology - Bujic From: Vencislav Bujic <vencib@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 05:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:59:08 -0400 Subject: Re: urrent State Of Ufology - Bujic >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:50:42 EDT >Subject: Current State Of Ufology >I wrote this on a response to a posting on another List. As I >thought about it, I thought I would throw the thought out here, >with some modifications from the original. I trust I am not >throwing red meat into shark infested waters..... >As I have given thought to what has been discussed in both >UFO publications and the various Lists that are around. >In recent memory cases like the Trent case, AA, Portage County >case, Betty & Barney Hill, implants, Roswell, MJ-12, alien >abductions and abductees Greer, Disclosure, NIDS and others just >to name a few that have been hashed, rehashed and revisted many >times. >Some people cringe at the thought of another post on a previous >case such as AA. Personally I am not a supporter of AA, it does >have its place in ufological history and has a right to be >discussed on a List or in a publication. The same right that the >Trent case, Exeter, Portage country, or any number of cases out >of UFO history. >With that background, I would make the observation that when you >stop and think about how much information we have on 'fresh' >cases as opposed to a case designated as a classic and or >controverserial that happened in years gone by, I would venture >to say not a great deal in the bigger picture of things. >Consider the general UFO publications. Other then the new case >blurbs in UFO publication X or a local newspaper article about a >new case we are back to discussing some case that happened in >years gone by. >Generally speaking we don't see or hear any further write ups >or investigation information. I'm not sure if claim that "the buying public" is not interested in new cases. Actually, "the buying public" IS interested in them, but would like to know more, instead of repeating of what we know. Also, there is a coverup, when false cases are spread around by some powerfull structures, those are the cases which look more like horror stories, with blood-sucking greys, monsters, etc. Even X-files has the same agenda, if you remember the scene when UFO comes over group of people, and then people get burned, etc. basically, the point is to scare people, so they can look for protection from government structures. Look at the movie 'The Fire In The Sky', its only 30% based on reality, and 70% is based on somebody's twisted mind, showing us some scary creatures that torture Travis. Where are those tall, Nordic humanoids that Travis was talking about? No, in the video you won't see them. Conclusion is there is massive cover-up of _any_ case that can suggest to the public, that yes, there are extraterrestrials, and they are good, and ready to communicate with us. The politicians and bankirs understand that people are not that dumb, and that we already know about extraterestrials and UFOs, so, it will be extremely difficult for them to stop that topic totally, but instead they stop cases about normal/positive humanoids and any communication with them, but keep making up and spreading false stories about monsters, evil dwarfs, greys and now some 'chupakabras' that like to suck blood... Again, the point is to tell 'the buying public' that yes, UFOs do exist, but their occupants are bad, and you "the buying public" have to look for a protection from us "rulling "elite", you need us, don't even try to make a contact with ufonauts, or they will suck your blood, or burn you or just eat for a dinner, etc., nonsense. The truth is the "ruling elite" doesn't want to lose servants, if too many people start asking themself why Ufonauts don't start open contact with human societies on Earth, then they are in realy big problem. Best regards, Vencislav
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Bill Weber <wweber1@sc.rr.com> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:48:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:28:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:54:25 -0600 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:10:10 EDT >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance -> Hi, Wendy, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here as well. You ask some terrific questions. >Secondly and I'm sure this will ruffle feathers, but I feel it >must be aired and I'm thick-skinned (headed? <g>) enough to say >it, that I believe the Abductee's are in serious error in >demanding that answers or research must come from such >researchers as Richard Hall, ah heck... make your own List. This reminds me of the conciliatory hugging and back-patting going on between members of the billions of dollars worth of intelligence agencies after 911. The upshot seems to be, "No one could ever have anticipated the terrorist attack." Well, if not them, who? Why _not_ ask people like Richard Hall the tough questions? And I'm not insulting or dissing him here, I'm just asking why not? >The field of crypto-aeronautics (sorry everyone, but it's a much >better term than Ufology because you can't lump channeling, >crystals, angel's, big foot, mothman, fairies, hobgoblins, >chupacabras, Marfa lights, purple-robed contactee wannabees, >etc. within it's parameters...well, maybe only as an obscure >footnote, but certainly not as a main research element) has >become so complex that the days of keeping a handle on all >aspects of the research has ended. It is now the time of >specialization within the field (specialization is the evolved >step toward building a science and the historical elements are >the foundation upon which the science is built). But nobody has actually solved anything yet. Nobody knows how the issues you mentioned above are connected, or if even connected at all. Do you mean we should specialize in areas of "lack of knowledge?" I know absolutely nothing about physics. Does that make me a specialist? (Especially uninformed, maybe.) >However, it seems to me from several years of reading UFO >Updates posting from Abductees, that the frustration level of >said Abductee's has reached its epitome. Hey, when mainstream Ufology can't even get it's primary 'believers' to believe, I'd say they had a problem. >Further, although I can >certainly sympathize with the Abductee, I've noticed that among >the Abductee population are individuals who have leadership >qualities, great insight, etc. into the abduction phenomenon as >a whole and from a personal level. So my question is why the >"whinning, bitching and moaning" about crypto-aeronautic >researchers not giving 200% of their time and efforts or coming >up with answers when there are already people such as yourself, >Jim, that can formulate, coordinate and organize in building a >coalition of Abductees to take on abduction research and give >the non-specialist answers? With all the respect in the world, I don't notice half as much 'whining, bitching and moaning' coming from the abductees as I do from the "crypto-aeronautic researchers" being asked difficult questions. And go figure. Abductees aren't privy to the hundreds, if not thousands, of abduction reports and papers from which "crypto-aeronautic researchers" make their paltry book sales. (In fact, if you want to hear real 'whining, bitching and moaning', ask the average researcher how much money from abduction research they scraped up this year. And however little it is, it's of a damn sight more value than the average abductee gleaned from his or her abduction experience this year.) Most of the abductees, I've noticed, would rather not be involved in the experience at all. Do we ask cancer patients to build their own hospitals, conduct their own research, and put together their own medical crew because "we're specialists in not knowing much about them" _and_ because they complain too much? Gee, maybe they weren't whining, bitching and moaning enough. I have a friend who is an addiction councilor. The place where he works just changed the mission statement from a focus on the 'sobriety' of their clients to 'partial sobriety'. How fortunate for Bob - and how unfortunate for the clinic's clients. The center can now declare themselves a complete success. (Hell, at least one of their clients has been partially sober in the past year.) Maybe the sparkly new field of crypto-aeronautic research would love to make a similar adjustment to their own mission statement abdicating responsibility for their own shortcomings in method. Far more insightful people than I have rocked Ufology to it's core over lack of method and science during the years I've read Updates. Take a look through the archives once again. Get something together - put together a real methodology - do some real research, or simply don't call yourself a researcher, ("crypto-aeronautic" or other). People like you hold the aces. Get on with it. Other people with _real_ issues are waiting. If I sounded like "Mr. Angry" here, it's not my intent. Best, Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Current State Of Ufology - Tophar From: Christopher Kelly <tophar@iprimus.com.au> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:16:29 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:21:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Current State Of Ufology - Tophar >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:50:42 EDT >Subject: Current State Of Ufology >I wrote this on a response to a posting on another List. As I >thought about it, I thought I would throw the thought out here, >with some modifications from the original. I trust I am not >throwing red meat into shark infested waters..... <snip> >Personally I don't mind discussing the old, whether that be AA, >Portage County, or any number of cases, as long as we also had >a healthy helping of current cases. Sadly I suspect we won't. Greeting Robert and Listorians, Interesting point you have here Robert, I think the old cases are hashed over time and again because there are still outstanding, as in 'unresolved'. Some people need closure on such things I believe and until such cases are proven one way or the other these cases will continue to be discussed. It is a brave person indeed that comes forth now days to tell of their experience/s. Just last year a young lady living North of Sydney told how she was taken by alien from her home and dropped off some 300 or 600 miles away further north. A girlfriend staying with her confirmed this happening. The media here made nothing but fun of it. Talk shows, the news, you name it they all seemed to make a big joke of it even though from the news footage you could see the women was distressed by the whole ordeal and she even had marks on her from her ordeal. It is hard to convince people when one has so little prof, even the police officer doing the investigating laughed about it on camera when he was being interviewed by one of the major TV stations. The poor women was really made to look like a fool, I felt quite sorry for her as I do believe something happened to her along the lines she said happened. But I tell you, seeing things like that happening to someone sure makes one think twice about coming forth in public. Well it did in my case. I get enough sh_t put on by friends and family for just saying I investigate the possibility of UFOs. Never mind saying I had seen one or been in one. It has taken my father some 8 years to start speaking to me again after I said I was doing such research in my spare time and I have never told him some of the things I have spoken about here, other wise he would still be not speaking to me I guess. So unless one has some real hard evidence to back up what they see or experience they are not as willing to come forth, I think the only reason the Lady up North came forward was because she had her girlfriend to back up her story, which didn't really help that much at the end of the day. I found myself off-line for the past ten days which was cool as I caught up on some of those 'should have done this ages ago odds and ends' I had been putting off. The only regret I had was missing SDI, though I was over the moon to see a review of Neil Freer's interview sitting there waiting for my listening pleasure, as one of the first things I did when I did got back on-line was to check to see what I had missed on SDI last Saturday night. I said it while I was listening to the interview and I will say it again. What and interview! So very glad you put that interview up Errol, it is another one of those must listen to interviews I feel. Many thanks. There was something Neil Freer said about Gold being mined here on Earth that really caught my interest, I have brought up the point of aliens needing resources to function and exist before and I still strongly believe this could be the way we will prove without question or beyond doubt their existence and maybe even understand them or understand what their are really all about. The evidence is there or here on Earth, I guess it is just a case of getting to it before the Military does. One case of possible evidence I am trying to make heads or tails of is a case were the US Military/Archaeologist where here at a site in Australia's outback in the early to mid 70's. After a law was passed making Aboriginal sites sacred the Americans were asked to leave the site. Which they did, but they blow up the site with TNT before they left. Now why would someone do such a thing if there wasn't any evidence of some kind there? Also I have never heard of Archaeologists using TNT to uncover a site, has any one else? I have learned that some small pieces of martial from the site were dated. There were only small so there was no way of telling what the whole thing looked like but the dates came back as being no less than 200,000 years and no more than 500,000 and there was evidence of carbon scoring on one side of one of the objects. Neil Freer in his interview with SDI talked about the use of rocket powered type craft being used around 450,000 years ago, not that I am saying there is a connection mind you, well not yet. There is about 20,000 tons of rock to dig through before I can get to were the samples were taken from or said to have been taken from. Chris (Tophar) AKA: The Alien hunter (or so some of my freinds call me) Said in an Elma Fudd voice:- Shhhhhh, be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting Awiens!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Current State Of Ufology - Tophar From: Christopher Kelly <tophar@iprimus.com.au> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:16:29 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:17:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Current State Of Ufology - Tophar >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:50:42 EDT >Subject: Current State Of Ufology >I wrote this on a response to a posting on another List. As I >thought about it, I thought I would throw the thought out here, >with some modifications from the original. I trust I am not >throwing red meat into shark infested waters..... <snip> >Personally I don't mind discussing the old, whether that be AA, >Portage County, or any number of cases, as long as we also had >a healthy helping of current cases. Sadly I suspect we won't. Greeting Robert and Listorians, Interesting point you have here Robert, I think the old cases are hashed over time and again because there are still outstanding, as in 'unresolved'. Some people need closure on such things I believe and until such cases are proven one way or the other these cases will continue to be discussed. It is a brave person indeed that comes forth now days to tell of their experience/s. Just last year a young lady living North of Sydney told how she was taken by alien from her home and dropped off some 300 or 600 miles away further north. A girlfriend staying with her confirmed this happening. The media here made nothing but fun of it. Talk shows, the news, you name it they all seemed to make a big joke of it even though from the news footage you could see the women was distressed by the whole ordeal and she even had marks on her from her ordeal. It is hard to convince people when one has so little prof, even the police officer doing the investigating laughed about it on camera when he was being interviewed by one of the major TV stations. The poor women was really made to look like a fool, I felt quite sorry for her as I do believe something happened to her along the lines she said happened. But I tell you, seeing things like that happening to someone sure makes one think twice about coming forth in public. Well it did in my case. I get enough sh_t put on by friends and family for just saying I investigate the possibility of UFOs. Never mind saying I had seen one or been in one. It has taken my father some 8 years to start speaking to me again after I said I was doing such research in my spare time and I have never told him some of the things I have spoken about here, other wise he would still be not speaking to me I guess. So unless one has some real hard evidence to back up what they see or experience they are not as willing to come forth, I think the only reason the Lady up North came forward was because she had her girlfriend to back up her story, which didn't really help that much at the end of the day. I found myself off-line for the past ten days which was cool as I caught up on some of those 'should have done this ages ago odds and ends' I had been putting off. The only regret I had was missing SDI, though I was over the moon to see a review of Neil Freer's interview sitting there waiting for my listening pleasure, as one of the first things I did when I did got back on-line was to check to see what I had missed on SDI last Saturday night. I said it while I was listening to the interview and I will say it again. What and interview! So very glad you put that interview up Errol, it is another one of those must listen to interviews I feel. Many thanks. There was something Neil Freer said about Gold being mined here on Earth that really caught my interest, I have brought up the point of aliens needing resources to function and exist before and I still strongly believe this could be the way we will prove without question or beyond doubt their existence and maybe even understand them or understand what their are really all about. The evidence is there or here on Earth, I guess it is just a case of getting to it before the Military does. One case of possible evidence I am trying to make heads or tails of is a case were the US Military/Archaeologist where here at a site in Australia's outback in the early to mid 70's. After a law was passed making Aboriginal sites sacred the Americans were asked to leave the site. Which they did, but they blow up the site with TNT before they left. Now why would someone do such a thing if there wasn't any evidence of some kind there? Also I have never heard of Archaeologists using TNT to uncover a site, has any one else? I have learned that some small pieces of martial from the site were dated. There were only small so there was no way of telling what the whole thing looked like but the dates came back as being no less than 200,000 years and no more than 500,000 and there was evidence of carbon scoring on one side of one of the objects. Neil Freer in his interview with SDI talked about the use of rocket powered type craft being used around 450,000 years ago, not that I am saying there is a connection mind you, well not yet. There is about 20,000 tons of rock to dig through before I can get to were the samples were taken from or said to have been taken from. Chris (Tophar) AKA: The Alien hunter (or so some of my freinds call me) Said in an Elma Fudd voice:- Shhhhhh, be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting Awiens!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:44:58 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:56:29 -0400 Subject: Re: HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario - Hall >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:47:33 -0700 >Subject: HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario >Hi List >Trying to keep up with the UFO front and do my baby sitting >duties. Actually I love the babysitting duties the best. Anyway, >here is a short report I received from a fellow back in Ontario. >I am making arrangements to call and discuss his sighting in >depth. Also everyone, I have received photos from two different >sightings, so working on this, but not until later this weekend. >Will keep you posted on everything. >Take care >Brian >HBCC UFO >Hi, my name is (deleted by HBCC UFO) and during the summer of >1999 I saw what at the time was unexplainable... and as far as I >am still aware still is... I am ex-military so this is my >account, ruling out the possibility that it was a flare or >falling meteorite or anything of that type... >I was driving home from work on a beautiful clear cool summer >night at about 2:30 am and as I approached my home town was >startled to see a wolf standing at the edge of the highway (hwy >2)...But that in itself pales in comparison to what I saw next. >As I looked at the wolf out of the car window something else >caught my attention. What I saw was an orange red orb >descending from the sky north of the town...now I know what a >flare looks like and I'm telling you this was bright but it >wasn't a flare, and whatever it was it went down behind the tree >line and did not come back up..again why I know it was not a >flare is because it's decent from what I saw started at to high >an altitude.... >If there have been or you have heard about anything similar to >this please let me know, my email is (deleted by HBCC UFO) Brian, Please be sure to ask him why he thinks it was not a fireball meteor. Many people are simply not familiar with them, as compared to brief and relatively small 'shooting stars'. Fireballs can be very large (apparent size) and long-lasting (many seconds), quite spectacular. I know; I have seen two of them. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 HBCC UFO: Courtney/Comox Valley British Columbia From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:07:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:08:55 -0400 Subject: HBCC UFO: Courtney/Comox Valley British Columbia Courtney/Comox Valley British Columbia Contactee Hi List Courtney/Comox Valley British Columbia On-Going Event Well, the baby is down and I thought I would disclose something I have said nothing about until now. I have been talking to a lady who called me from Courtney, British Columbia and we have spent quite some time discussing her experiences. Her family is also part of this ongoing event. It all started many years ago when this lady was a youngster. Her Mother watched an object hover over their field. The next morning they went out to look and found a large circle burnt into the crop. From that day on she claims to have seen many strange things in and around their home, right up until now. She is now 48 years old with a family of her own, and still has "contact" with very unusual objects. Starting with herself, she has woken up with bruises and different kinds of markings on her body. Her son who is now 28 years old, has the same type of markings. Down the line it goes throughout the family. Many times they have taken their son to the doctor's only to come away with no answers for the condition his body is in, but always seems to heal up. She also claims to have seen visitors of some type which have her completely scared out of her wits, and she told me she keeps her blinds closed completely as night falls. This event has been going on for years, and continues to this date. Other than her family members, including her husband, no one knows about what has been taking place. I also am making arrangements to head to Courtney, British Columbia, to carry out an investigation and do an interview with her and the family. She was very kind and offered my wife and I an empty apartment in the building they own so we will have a place to stay while visiting with these folks. I thought this was really nice of her to do. I did a little checking, and she is in a professional field of employment and has a lot to lose even by talking about this to me. I of course, have guaranteed her privacy completely, but she did say I could publish her story when completed as long as names, etc.. are left out. Also, along with my checking into this, I know 'someone' very, very, very well who knows this lady, and says she is a very honest, and has nothing to gain by making up this story. Anyway, just from what I have so far, I can honestly say this could be one of the biggest cases I will ever be working on. I should be heading down sometime late Spring as I still have a tin of stuff to complete up here in northern B.C. As the saying goes, when it rains, it pours. And I am drowning. -:))) Take care Brian HBCC UFO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 To Chinese UFO Buffs It's A Serious Science From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:10:48 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:11:48 -0400 Subject: To Chinese UFO Buffs It's A Serious Science Source: CNN Europe, http://europe.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/04/12/hk.Ufology.china/index.html Stig *** To Chinese UFO buffs, it's a serious science April 12, 2002 Posted: 0818 GMT CNN's Kristie Lu Stout ** HONG KONG, China (CNN) - UFO research is the stuff of sci-fi buffs and conspiracy freaks, but in China it's treated seriously. Joseph Wong, a lab manager at Hong Kong's City University, is a man of science. His job is to assess the structural performance of buildings. But familiar as he is with hard data, Wong is also a fan of the unexplained. "If something flies over, there's a very good reason for trying to understand why they're here, why they come to us, what is their relationship between us and them," he says. Wong is the Chairman of Hong Kong's thriving UFO club -- exploring "unidentified flying objects" or, to the uninitiated, "flying saucers." The club meets once a month to explore otherworldly topics like "E.T. Civilization" and "Alien Kung Fu." Members occasionally meet at a cyber cafe called UFO Station in Hong Kong's Tsim Sha Tsui district. The spot is home to Hong Kong's own version of the X- files. The dark monitor-lit cafe has UFO books, newsletters, and old news clippings of close encounters - material that UFO club members take very seriously. A masters in Ufology? "In order to understand UFO phenomena, we need to have a broad understanding of different disciplines," says Albert So, university professor and Hong Kong UFO club member, "including mathematics, physics, history, philosophy, even some sort of paranormal activities and all that." Hong Kong's UFO enthusiasts, like So, are not dreamy stargazers, but researchers who see their passion as a science. So much so that they're lobbying for a university degree program in 'Ufology'. "The graduates of this program will grasp at least all the major knowledge in order to understand UFO phenomena, and also other technologies and any skills related to UFOs," says So. "After students or friends finish this degree, they may have their own understanding about this universe," Wong adds. "Maybe they will be able to come up with a new universe model, new way of life, or whatever." It sounds like a tough sell, but it may not be hard to pitch in mainland China, where there is little taboo about discs that glow in the night or theories on visitors from out there. Flying boats in China China's state-run media reports on UFO sightings. Even the government's Ministry of Science and Technology treats the topic with respect. "It seems that people in the East are more open to discuss issues related to UFOs," So says. "Perhaps that is something to do with the culture of the races. In particular, Chinese. Chinese is a kind of race who easily believes in something supernatural." And they may have been believing for a long time. UFO researchers point to an ancient drawing of the 100-year story of an emperor meeting a flying boat -- a compelling artifact in support of UFO study, but not the only one. "For me, it's not very important whether there is really a UFO that can fly or not," Wong says. "It's when we are investigating this, I think it's the process that actually helps us to understand more about ourselves or our planet." For club chairman Joseph Wong, the truth may be out there, but the payoff is personal -- studying aliens helps to satiate a very healthy, and very human, curiosity. * =A9 2002 Cable News Network LP, LLLP. An AOL Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved. Terms under which this service is provided to you. Read our privacy guidelines. Contact us.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Re:Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:32:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:14:01 -0400 Subject: Re:Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:54:25 -0600 Hi Wendy, You wrote: >First, you and most Abductee's will be pleased (well, I sure >hope you will) that a new discovery has been made regarding a >couple of famous Abductees that I will be posting in the next >couple of weeks. I'll give the abductees on the UFO Updates List >a hint... Mississippi. <g> Something "new" eh? Interesting, especially after so many years. Having known of Charlie (via Budd who stays in fairly regular touch with him) I hope it is confirming news. After the problems Charlie had in the late 80's over his insistence that 'the aliens were landing' by a predicted date/year, it would be nice to see his abduction case strengthened/corroborated/proven, whatever. He's a good man and he deserves a much better shake than he's gotten. I'm surprised that case isn't discussed more often. I feel the same way about the Travis Walton case, Debbie 'Jordan' and Ray Fowler's Allagash Four case. Strong cases that deserve much closer scrutiny and attention than they have received. It's like they've been relegated to some historical dust heap and forgotten. I'm glad to hear that there is a new development in the Mississippi case. Get people talking and thinking about it again. :) Can't wait to hear the news. :) Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Larry Bryant's 'Notice of Impending Legal Action' From: Larry Bryant <evelarr@msn.com> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:40:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:19:59 -0400 Subject: Larry Bryant's 'Notice of Impending Legal Action' To: The General Counsel of the following U.S. Agencies: National Archives and Records Administration Central Intelligence Agency Department of the Air Force Department of the Army Department of the Navy Department of State Department of Defense National Security Council From: Larry W. Bryant 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 (E-mail address: overtci@cavtel.net) Date: April 12, 2002 Subject: Notice of Impending Legal Action By my carbon-copy delivery of this letter to my attorney, Mark S. Zaid, Esq., of Washington, D.C., I serve notice upon your agencies (et al.) that Mr. Zaid has my instruction to proceed on/about May 1, 2002, with the filing of a complaint against you in U. S. District Court for the District of Columbia - on the grounds of your failure to properly/promptly grant my FOIA appeal of your agencies' denial of citizens' full access to the Intelligence Advisory Board's meeting-agenda memorandum (cum attachments) circa July 17, 1947 (see my appeal letter of Sept. 14, 2001, and the related electronically circulated petition titled "Declassify this (UFO?) Document", as forwarded to most of your agencies on Feb. 14, 2002, and as archived on the "LWB Chronicles" section of the website http://www.ufocity.com). Larry W. Bryant
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: nternational Petition Progress Report 01 - From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:43:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:38:57 -0400 Subject: Re: nternational Petition Progress Report 01 - >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:46:10 +0100 >Subject: Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - Jones >>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:46:07 -0400 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Subject: International Petition Progress Report 01 >Evening John ><snip> >>Everyone on this List (especially) should have signed it by >>now. >For my part, I downright forgot! Thanks for the reminder. Hiya Sean, There are many others who forgot as well, I'm sure. That's why the "update." I had to concoct a way to keep the petition fresh in everyone's mind. 500 + signatures in just a couple of short weeks is a terrific response. Until you consider that the subscribers to this List alone is at least four times that many. Then the 500 doesn't look so 'terrific.' Also, there are, I don't know how many 'thousands' that listen in to 'Strange Days... Indeed' every Saturday night. I'm sure that a good number of those are listening over the Internet. (Can access the petition) If just the subscribers to this List showed support and signed the petition, the 'number' would be up around two or three thousand at this point. If 'half' of the listeners of SDI were to sign... the number would be in double digits (10,000 +) at this time. Thanks Sean. I hope everybody else takes the 1 or 2 minutes that it takes to read and sign the petition along with you. Most important is the _word of mouth_! Tell everyone you know. Set-up a banner link on your website directly to the petition. (Banners available by contacting me.) Promote awareness of the petition in newsletters, mailing lists, anything that reaches other people. If someone wanted to put up the dough for some newspaper and magazine ads I wouldn't be adverse to the idea. If _anyone_ wants to help, all they have to do is to spread the word. We have a whole year. If this thing achieves any success, the 'level' of that success will directly reflect the 'level of interest' and 'active involvement' (or apathy) of all the People. This is an opportunity for every individual to make their voice heard on this important issue. Let's not waste the opportunity. Warm regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:52:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:44:39 -0400 Subject: Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - >From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:38:30 +0200 >Subject: Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:46:07 -0400 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:42:08 -0400 >>Subject: International Petition Progress Report 01 >>To date we have accumulated 500 + signatures for the >>International Petition to the UN. As good as that may sound to >>some, the truth is that it is a 'relatively' poor showing. >Everybody can spread information with a simple mouseclick! >Everybody should send the petition and the request so sign it by >way of their newsletter, mailing list, etc. It's got to spread and >it's yet to start. >Remember those snowball spam mails, where somebody wants someone >to donate blood for his friend? That's the way. If everybody on >this List sends the petition information to 10 people with the >request to send it to 10 others, the snowball starts rolling. >Make that 20 and... you know. >Everybody who runs an internet site should make a visible link >to the petition site! >John, you should prepare text files for distribution and small >banners that people can use for their sites. we still have one >year! Hi Hannes, hi All, Thank you! :) If anyone so desires, they can contact me for a small 'banner' that can be posted on websites and linked directly to the Virtually Strange Network International Petition site. Contact me at: petition@virtuallystrange.net or, john@virtuallystrange.net I love your 'chain letter' idea Hannes. I'm going to do it myself! If we get enough folks to initiate a chain of e-mails, the number of signatures at the petition site would skyrocket. And that is the kind of 'showing' that we are going to need if this effort is to make any impact at all. Post the URL (Web address) for the petition far and wide. People can't sign it if they don't know that it's there. Recent statistics show that here in the USA alone, 51% of the population thinks there is some 'substance' to the UFO phenomenon. Those same statistics hold true in other countries as well. If even 3% of those were to take the -practical- action of signing the petition, we will be handing the Secretary General a petition with many millions of signatures. We have to "think BIG" if we are to get the attention of the UN's member nations. The one thing that can kill this effort faster than anything else is _apathy._ Or worse yet, an attitude like: "Oh this will never work, why bother?" If folks just; take the time; read the petition; if you agree with it... sign it; and tell others about it, this effort _will_ succeed. If even one country joins the list of those that have already disclosed their UFO related information, and because of our _united_ appeal, then we will have all (collectively) accomplished an important thing. About something that affects all mankind. Again, thanks for your support and I am, (we all are,) counting on your _continued_ support. I will provide a link banner to any Web site that wishes to add a active link to the online petition at the Virtually Strange Network. Warm regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:20:42 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:51:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hall My recent post about progress in Ufology has stirred a number of responses, some helpful and some rather incomprehensible. One thing that I may not have made clear is that people constantly complain, and quibble about definitions (e.g., 'New Age'), but don't seem to be aware of or able to assimilate and put into practical use, some very worthwhile research results. The main thing I was trying to convey was this: Obviously I am a member of the 'Old Guard' and The UFO Evidence, Volume II, may turn out to be my last major effort; nevertheless, it provides everyone out there who is seriously interested in getting at the truth a potentially very powerful weapon. Wake up and use it, and stop complaining about lack of progress! - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar Announcement - 4/20/02 From: Intruders Foundation <IFConfer@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:45:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:54:58 -0400 Subject: Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar Announcement - 4/20/02 Intruders Foundation Seminar Series Announcement ABDUCTEE PANEL DISCUSSION Saturday, April 20, 2002 Back by popular demand, the Intruders Foundation (IF) will be presenting its fourth abductee panel discussion, in which several UFO abductees will talk about their extraordinary experiences and how they have dealt with them. Always compelling, these first-hand accounts offer the audience a rare chance to hear exactly what occurs during an abduction, and what led these individuals to begin the process of exploring their memories. Hypnosis will be discussed and a free dialogue period will offer members of the audience a chance to question the speakers about their encounters. Budd Hopkins will introduce the panel members (who desire anonymity) and will add his own comments. (NOTE: Due to the need for witness confidentiality, we do not release the names of our participating panelists.) REGISTRATION & INFORMATION The seminar will be held on April 20th at the meeting rooms of A.R.E., on the tenth floor of 150 W. 28th Street, New York, NY. The price of the seminar is $30 for non-members and $20 for members of IF, seniors, and students. Reservations must be made by telephone at 212-645-5278, and will be filled on a first come, first served basis. Payment must be made in advance to secure the reservation. Make checks payable to the Intruders Foundation, P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011. Only 50 reservations will be accepted. On-street parking is generally available in the neighborhood. The seminar will begin at 7:30 PM and end at 10:00 PM. Doors open at 7:00 PM. There will be a one half-hour intermission, during which light complimentary refreshments will be served. A book table will offer books, videotapes, and other material for sale to those interested. For additional information, call IF at 212-645-5278. Hope to see you there! ---------- UPCOMING SEMINARS - Mark Your Calendars! * March 18th =E2=80=A6 Marshall Lee on "The Varginha Case" (Brazilian UFO= Crash) * June 22nd ... David Jacobs on "Alien Hybrids" ---------- The Intruders Foundation Seminar Series is presented in the interests of open-minded scientific learning and the free exchange of research, ideas, and theories. IF makes no specific claims or endorsements regarding any materials, views, or subject matter presented by our guests. ---------- Want to know more about Budd Hopkins and his nonprofit scientific research organization, as well as past and future IF events? Please visit our website=E2=80=A6 Intruders Foundation Website: www.intrudersfoundation.org ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:11:45 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:58:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Bill Weber <wweber1@sc.rr.com> >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:48:23 -0400 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:54:25 -0600 >Hi, Wendy, >I hope you don't mind me jumping in here as well. You ask some >terrific questions. <snip> Hi Bill, No, not at all. Opine all you want. But, I think you may be asking for a response, so here it goes: Common sense, to me, dictates that an abductee knows more about the abduction phenomenon than a non-abductee. The abductee certainly knows what the experience means to him/her/them. The crypto-aeronautic researcher that hasn't experienced the abduction phenomena first hand can only opine and, if interested, use their expertise to correlate the data espoused by abductees who relate thier experiences and then present possible hypotheses to support their data. Thus, the abductee's have just as qualified people among the abductee population to do the same thing with better insight than a non-abductee researcher. Makes sense and seems logical to me in my opinion. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Review: 'Abduction In My Life' - Davidson From: Nancy Davidson <nld1@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:50:39 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:03:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Review: 'Abduction In My Life' - Davidson >Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:08:56 -0500 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Subject: Review: 'Abduction In My Life' Hi I have just read John Velez review of 'Abduction in My Life' and plan to read the book as I have the book in my home. It is great that a List exists for people like him who have been abducted and people who have seen ufo's. I know what it is like to see ufo's for I have seen them. The incident took place in Chicago about ten years ago. My husband and I were looking out of our condo window towards the West when we saw four silver oval-shaped objects with exhaust coming out of each of the objects in a sort of pattern. We have some other experiences involving weird lights following us - while we were driving in a suburb of Chicago (now knowing what they were). Thanks for this great List. Nancy Davidson Chicago, Illinois
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 EW: NASA Odyssey Photographs Mars Face From: Kurt Jonach - 'The Electric Warrior' <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:01:56 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:09:26 -0400 Subject: EW: NASA Odyssey Photographs Mars Face ------------------------------------------------------------ The Electric Warrior : Mars Online April 12, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com ------------------------------------------------------------ =BB NASA ODYSSEY PHOTOGRAPHS MARS FACE martian enigmas =BB photo: Mars Face, Odyssey 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com/mol/ewFaceOdyssey2002.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - NASA has released a brand new image of the notorious Face on Mars. Also in full view for the first time in about 30 years is a landform that Mars anomaly researchers call the D&M Pyramid. As promised last January by NASA project scientist Steve Saunders, the Odyssey's Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) has photographed the famous Martian landmark, as one of the high-priority imaging targets that are of great interest to the general public. The THEMIS system was developed for NASA by Arizona State University, and the photograph for April 13, 2002 is one of a series of daily images released by the Odyssey imaging team. The Mars Face was re-photographed several times by NASA's Mars Global Surveyor (MGS), most recently at about this time last year. The latest THEMIS image also has a partially cropped image of the Fortress, already imaged by MGS. The controversial Mars Face first turned up in wide area photographs of Cydonia, taken by Mars Viking missions in 1972. Mars researchers DiPietro and Molenaar also noticed an unusual five-sided landform, that became known as the D&M Pyramid. MARS ONLINE The Electric Warrior offers a large (600x600), side-by-side comparison of the Face, D&M Pyramid, and Fortress anomalies, as photographed by NASA's Mars Odyssey. Visit the EW Weblog an click on the popup window for "Cydonia 2002". ------------------------------------------------------------ RELATED RESOURCES 13-Apr-02 The so-called "Face on Mars" http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20020413a.html (Mars Odyssey/THEMIS) - The first picture of this area was taken by the Viking spacecraft in the 1970s, and people have been intrigued ever since. However, orbiter camera technologies have actually become so good in providing a clear view of the hill that it's almost a disappointment to see how normal an eroded hill this well-liked feature is. Well, disappointing unless you're a geologist, that is! ------------------------------------------------------------ THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR April 12, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com eWarrior@electricwarrior.com The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. The content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Cydonian Imperative: THEMIS Images Face, D&M From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:23:40 -0400 Subject: Cydonian Imperative: THEMIS Images Face, D&M The Cydonian Imperative 4-12-02 New THEMIS Image Shows Face, D&M Pyramid and Fort by Mac Tonnies for images and links: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html [image] The Face as viewed by the Mars Odyssey's Thermal Emission Imaging System. As promised, NASA has released a revealing new image of the Cydonia region showing the Face, Fort and - most interestingly - the D&M Pyramid, which hasn't been fully photographed since the Viking mission. True to shape-from-shading models, the Face remains facelike. [image] The not-so-changing Face on Mars. Image courtesy Chris Joseph. Renewed debunking attempts such as the condesending essay posted on Space.com (see related links, above) are predictable and rather desperate. (Instead of comparing the Face to the utterly natural-looking Middle Butte formation, as exposed by Lan Fleming of SPSR, Face detractors have now identified a camel- shaped formation in Arizona that supposedly solves the mystery in Cydonia. While hills shaped like camels might fulfill the agenda of the mainstream press, searching Earth for arbitrary likenesses does little to advance objective Face research. Space.com concedes that nature is "imaginative." Given the Face's mathematically nonfractal signature, described in detail by Dr. Mark Carlotto, "uncanny" seems a more appropriate word choice. Tellingly, Space.com avoids mentioning the D&M Pyramid and Fort, both of which are plainly visible on the THEMIS image- strip.) [image] The best view of the D&M Pyramid to date reveals an enigmatic, angular formation. The D&M Pyramid remains pyramidal when seen in higher resolution. Interestingly, it reveals further evidence of geometry. The "debris flow" described in Richard Hoagland's "The Monuments of Mars" is seen in much greater detail. The "flow" is a narrow, winding feature that emanates from the damaged-looking northwest flank and bizarre "tunnel," as revealed in the shape- from-shading enhancement below. [image] The D&M Pyramid as seen by Viking. Note apparent damage and dark "tunnel" opening. Image courtesy Mark Carlotto. Note the peculiar cluster of debris at the end of the "flow." As the only such "crumbled" feature in Cydonia, this "secondary anomaly" deserves special attention. Could the unique, abruptly terminating "flow" be evidence of a meteor impact or explosion that deformed the D&M Pyramid, assuming it once exhibited more lateral symmetry? Also note the conspicuous angles emerging from the surrounding terrain, suggesting that the D&M was originally positioned atop a shallow platform of some sort (possibly of the proposed "seawall" variety suggested by the Fort, Face and Platform Pyramid). Hopefully new images, taken at different sun angles, will assist efforts to make sense of the formations under investigation. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:36:26 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:27:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Bill Weber <wweber1@sc.rr.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:48:23 -0400 >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:54:25 -0600 >>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:10:10 EDT >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance -> >Hi, Wendy, >I hope you don't mind me jumping in here as well. You ask some >terrific questions. Dear Wendy, Bill, List, Errol, My two cents. >>Secondly and I'm sure this will ruffle feathers, but I feel it >>must be aired and I'm thick-skinned (headed? <g>) enough to say >>it, that I believe the Abductee's are in serious error in >>demanding that answers or research must come from such >>researchers as Richard Hall, ah heck... make your own List. Uh, did I miss something here, or are these people you mentioned UFO and/or Abduction researchers? Call 'em what you will, but that's their chosen avocation. If not from them, then from whom? Perceived abductees? Sorry, we are too emotionally involved in the phenomena to do much in that department. Research in this field or any other demands answers. And answers are allowed to be in the form of more questions. Who ya' gonna' call? >This reminds me of the conciliatory hugging and back-patting >going on between members of the billions of dollars worth of >intelligence agencies after 911. The upshot seems to be, "No one >could ever have anticipated the terrorist attack." Well, if not >them, who? Why _not_ ask people like Richard Hall the tough >questions? And I'm not insulting or dissing him here, I'm just >asking why not? Agreed. But the issue is not really research is it? For if it was, people would be organizing themsleves into groups, sharing information, data and doing what the physicists do, make bets on who's right. Hawking does that with his peers. When was the last time anyone asked a question of the abductees on this List? Wait, I'm cypherin. Micky's hand is on Minnie's whatsis, divide by the square of .... I got it. Never. >>The field of crypto-aeronautics (sorry everyone, but it's a much >>better term than Ufology because you can't lump channeling, >>crystals, angel's, big foot, mothman, fairies, hobgoblins, >>chupacabras, Marfa lights, purple-robed contactee wannabees, >>etc. within it's parameters...well, maybe only as an obscure >>footnote, but certainly not as a main research element) has >>become so complex that the days of keeping a handle on all >>aspects of the research has ended. It is now the time of >>specialization within the field (specialization is the evolved >>step toward building a science and the historical elements are >>the foundation upon which the science is built). Specialization, eh? In what? There are no answers. No one knows what the hell this phenomena is about. What specialization? How about basic research? OK, how about Jacobs specializing in how bad these dudes are and Hopkins specializing in how benign. And Mack doing his New Age stuff. Sure. And the check is in the mail. And, "Don't worry, sweetheart, I'm sterile." These gentlemen, some, not all, but most of them, are not at all interested in each others' theories. In fact, with my own ears, I've heard one diss the other. So, uh... where does that put us Crypto Nerdologists? >But nobody has actually solved anything yet. Nobody knows how >the issues you mentioned above are connected, or if even >connected at all. Do you mean we should specialize in areas of >"lack of knowledge?" I know absolutely nothing about physics. >Does that make me a specialist? (Especially uninformed, maybe.) >>However, it seems to me from several years of reading UFO >>Updates posting from Abductees, that the frustration level of >>said Abductee's has reached its epitome. Ever wonder why, Wendy. And can you change your name? I'm getting hungry again. It's because there are no answers. Just debating whether some pilot saw pelicans or flying saucers. Cheeses, Wendy, get a grip. There are people out there suffering and looking in the only place they can for answers. But there's only this bickering and dickering with nothing revealed. At least not to the satisfaction of the perceived abductee. >Hey, when mainstream Ufology can't even get it's primary >'believers' to believe, I'd say they had a problem. Second. >>Further, although I can >>certainly sympathize with the Abductee, I've noticed that among >>the Abductee population are individuals who have leadership >>qualities, great insight, etc. into the abduction phenomenon as >>a whole and from a personal level. So my question is why the >>"whinning, bitching and moaning" about crypto-aeronautic >>researchers not giving 200% of their time and efforts or coming >>up with answers when there are already people such as yourself, >>Jim, that can formulate, coordinate and organize in building a >>coalition of Abductees to take on abduction research and give >>the non-specialist answers? Wull excuuuuse me. But ain't that a good question. I have a partial answer. When someone such as Bill or me or any one of us abductees begins a project, it is dissed. And there is _no_ participation by mainstream abduction research. In fact, there is even bickering and worse amongst ourselves. It is no wonder we all look like idiots to mainstream science. And it's a wonder that anything like a concerted effort such as the one in which I' ve become involved, can sustain itself. >With all the respect in the world, I don't notice half as much >'whining, bitching and moaning' coming from the abductees as I >do from the "crypto-aeronautic researchers" being asked >difficult questions. And go figure. Abductees aren't privy to >the hundreds, if not thousands, of abduction reports and papers >from which "crypto-aeronautic researchers" make their paltry >book sales. (In fact, if you want to hear real 'whining, >bitching and moaning', ask the average researcher how much money >from abduction research they scraped up this year. And however >little it is, it's of a damn sight more value than the average >abductee gleaned from his or her abduction experience this >year.) Most of the abductees, I've noticed, would rather not be >involved in the experience at all. Do we ask cancer patients to >build their own hospitals, conduct their own research, and put >together their own medical crew because "we're specialists in >not knowing much about them" _and_ because they complain too >much? Gee, maybe they weren't whining, bitching and moaning >enough. <snip> >Far more insightful people than I have rocked Ufology to it's >core over lack of method and science during the years I've read >Updates. Take a look through the archives once again. Get >something together - put together a real methodology - do some >real research, or simply don't call yourself a researcher, >("crypto-aeronautic" or other). People like you hold the aces. >Get on with it. Other people with _real_ issues are waiting. >If I sounded like "Mr. Angry" here, it's not my intent. Too bad. Because I am. Angry enough to do something about it. Through thick and thin, and _outside_ the research community as it appears this is the way they want it. I am presently sharing information with only one researcher on this entire List. And that person is skeptical, at least to someone such as the typical abductee. But you know, I would rather deal with him than anyone else. Why? Because I know the information will be scrutenized fairly and accurately. It is the intention of this perceived abductee to turn that skeptical person into a believer. It won't happen. But maybe, just maybe, he'll ask the right question of our little group of doctors and abductees; the answer to which question will provide some insight. The kind we won't get here. If I sound angry... I am. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 04:24:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 - >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:05:47 -0700 (PDT) >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: International Petition Progress Report 01 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:46:07 -0400 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Subject: International Petition Progress Report 01 >>International Petition to the UN. As good as that may sound to >>some, the truth is that it is a 'relatively' poor showing. >>Especially in consideration of the fact that the number of >>signatures does not even match/reflect the number of members of >>this List alone. And that's not counting the thousands who >>listen to SDI over the Internet! ><snip> >John, >Banners are a good idea. I recommend designing more of 'em to >fit the "look" of other websites out there and really spreading >them around until they're as ubiquitous as "Get Netscape Now!" >or whatever. You can't ignore what you see every time you go >online. Hiya Mac, Although I agree that it would be nice to see links to the petition "as ubiquitous as, Get Netscape Now!" Creating 'custom' banners to cover all the design possibilities of other people's websites would be mission impossible. It is why I chose a simple black background. I had to incorporate the logos and colors being used at the Virtually Strange Network International Petition site. It may "clash" with the colors at some few sites but I don't think that would be a very good reason for not including it. Nobody else (that I know of) offers a variety of colors and designs for link banners. I really don't think it's necessary in the case of the petition site banner either. Webmasters can contact me for a link banner to the petition. We need all the help we can get spreading these banners all over the Web. If you have a website, especially a UFO related website, you should post a link to the petition prominently somewhere on your site. Every little bit of exposure helps. The easier it is for folks to find, read and sign the petition, the better the results will be in the end. Do all that you can to get the word out. Request a petition link banner at: john@virtuallystrange.net Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 350 From: Edoardo Russo <e.russo@cisu.org> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:31:45 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:37:01 -0400 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 350 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 350 - 5 APRIL 2002 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) Contents: - The UPIAR Cooperative Turns 20 - A Book About The Pre-UFOs - Italian TV Broadcasts THE UPIAR COOPERATIVE TURNS 20 Exactly twenty years ago on 5 April 1982, nine Italian UFO researchers met before a notary for the purpose of establishing a cooperative society named the 'Cooperativa studi e iniziative UPIAR' (UPIAR Studies & Initiatives Cooperative): the first (and heretofore only) legal body created in Italy with a decidedly ufological scope which, based (according to the statute) 'on the principles of mutuality and without any speculative or profit aim, proposes the carrying out, the promotion and the dissemination of studies and research of phenomena associated with the UFO theme at all levels, including all relative social, psychological e physical phenomena.' The birth of the cooperative centered around the magazine UPIAR ('UFO Phenomena International Annual Review'), which in 1976 ushered in a fresh approach to the publicizing of ufology, by creating the first scientific-based publication with a referee committee composed of the most noted UFO scholars from the entire university world, and by subjecting every item to their own preliminary scrutiny, as is standard procedure for academic publications: an Italian initiative which was subsequently imitated abroad yet garnered for itself international recognition and acclaim. Over the two decades which have transpired since that day, many things have changed, and the cooperative in particular has actively overseen and supported the creation of the Italian Center for UFO Studies (CISU), of which it became the publishing house and organizational branch, in virtue also of its non- profit nature. Today, after having organized conferences in Italy and abroad, and with the publication of hundreds of issues of several periodicals and some dozens books and monographs, it also manages the first Italian e-marketing Website dedicated to ufology (at http://www.upiar.com). A BOOK ABOUT THE PRE-UFOS Entitled "Narrano antiche cronache" ('What Ancient Chronicles Tell') it is dedicated to the research of 'traces of contact with extraterrestrials in ancient manuscripts, ancient paintings and archeological testimony': this represents the latest book by archeologist Roberto Volterri, who has made it in the unusual format of a kind of practical manual for the examination (as well as the critiquing) of ancient works of art with the assistance of a personal computer. The volume is published by Hera Publications, of whose same- titled magazine Volterri is a frequent contributor, and it costs 16,84 Euro (including shipping). The Italian Center for UFO Studies will buy a certain number of copies of the book for its members, who as always may order it through the Servizio Librario UPIAR (UPIAR Book Service). [Communication by Roberto Volterri] ITALIAN TV BROADCASTS UFOs made a return to TV in recent weeks. On Raitre on Sunday, 18 March, the program "La grande storia" ('Big History') broadcast a documentary entitled 'I Misteri del nazismo' ('The Mysteries Of Nazism'), which was dedicated to links with the occult, as well as the discussion of the Nazi UFOs myth and German secret super-armies [reports by Angelo Galbiati, Gian Paolo Grassino and Giuseppe Stilo]. On Saturday, 24 March, the season debut of "Stargate" (on La7) dedicated a report to the phenomenon of crop circles, openly linking it with the UFO problem [report by Angelo Galbiati and Gildo Person=E8; UFO-Italia, 25 March]. On Thursday the 28th, a Sicilian witness presented, on the Raidue program "I fatti vostri" (Your Business), the film of an object observed by several people and captured with a video camera in Ummari (Trapani) in last August [reports by Giuseppe Fragola, Sebastiano Pernice and Gildo Persone'; UFO-Italia, 28 March through 4 April]. Finally, on 4 April, Maurizio Baiata was interviewed on Odeon TV for the broadcast "Il Lanternino" (The Small Lantern), in which some of his beloved 'greatest hits' were presented (e.g., the Mexican eclypse film, the "Guardian" case, crop circles). Collaborators on this edition were: Angelo Galbiati, Giuseppe Fragola, Gian Paolo Grassino, Sebastiano Pernice, Gildo Persone', Giuseppe Stilo and Roberto Volterri. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader 1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684 ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gjpresto@mediaone.net Webpage: http://profiles.yahoo.com/italoman9 - - - (c) 2002 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 329.02.79 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:21:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:39:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Bill Weber <wweber1@sc.rr.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:48:23 -0400 >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:54:25 -0600 Good Morning Wendy, Bill Excuse me if I but in here, but I couldn't bite my lip on this one. >>The field of crypto-aeronautics (sorry everyone, but it's a much >>better term than Ufology because you can't lump channeling, >>crystals, angel's, big foot, mothman, fairies, hobgoblins, >>chupacabras, Marfa lights, purple-robed contactee wannabees, >>etc. within it's parameters...well, maybe only as an obscure >>footnote, but certainly not as a main research element) has >>become so complex that the days of keeping a handle on all >>aspects of the research has ended. It is now the time of >>specialization within the field (specialization is the evolved >>step toward building a science and the historical elements are >>the foundation upon which the science is built). >But nobody has actually solved anything yet. Nobody knows how >the issues you mentioned above are connected, or if even >connected at all. Do you mean we should specialize in areas of >"lack of knowledge?" I know absolutely nothing about physics. >Does that make me a specialist? (Especially uninformed, maybe.) Methinks you are missing the point on two counts here Bill, and I aint "dissing" you either <g> Count One The fact these cases remain un-resolved, un-solved, or what ever term you wish to apply is simply another way of demonstrating that _unidentified_ flying objects can still remain unidentified even after _years_ of hard research by some very good people. Kinda adds weight to the U part of UFO don't you think? Sorry Wendy but I think the term UFO is too ingrained in people's vocabulary to change now. :o) But you are right, we do need to separate ourselves from things that are _too_ way out to gain solid respect for our research. Count Two There are experts on the "unknown". Tachyons, quantum tunnelling, quantum mechanics, Hyperspace, time travel, FTL mechanics, and even Jesus Christ have experts on each subject. Each subject is plagued by a lack of knowledge, but that doesn't stop people doing further research into discovering the answers. Hey, some of these might even be "connected" <g> Just my tuppence worth. Regards Sean
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:55:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:03:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:41:11 +0000 >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:37:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance <snip> >Also, as I have suggested in several forums (fora) since the >book is pricey, that people wanting to read it could at least >ask their local libraries to order a copy. It is, after all, a >library publisher well-known in the field. Unfortunately, it did >not get reviewed in Library Journal but the other reviews are >all pretty positive. I did ask - they won't do it. I will, however, ask the library at the University about obtaining a copy. Sorry, didn't think about that before. I'll get over to the library tomorrow and ask about it. As for my local library's refusal, it didn't surprise me. I live in the heart of the Bible Belt, ya know. Around here, UFO stuff ranks right up there with devil worship. >My grievance is that it is not, apparently, getting into the >hands of mainstream opinion-makers who could make a difference. Who exactly are these mainstream "opinion-makers"? Can you drop a couple of names, just to make sure we're all on the same page on that one? >I have also suggested that someone orders copies to send to >important people of their choosing, as a means of getting it >around. >- Dick Did you receive author's copies of the book? If so, who did you send them to? Letting people know that would prevent someone duplicating the book as a donation to the same person. Just a thought. Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Brun From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:32:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:05:30 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Brun From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:07:11 +0100 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >1. What aspect(s) of the article do you/Nick regard as >exclusive? The publication of _Top Secret_ DSI/JTIC documents (not the secret ones) was the main scoop, but there are numerous others, as we have previously explained. These include the linking of General MacArthur's enquiry concerning a crashed flying bomb with the Westerham Incident and Dorothy Killgallen's story; Adamski's visit to Earl Mountbatten's Broadlands estate; and the whole way in which we explain how wider developments and rivalries in the scientific intelligence field had a bearing on how the UFO phenomenon was viewed and handled by the MOD. 2. What specifically led you/Nick to request the files relating to report No. 7 from the PRO, and when was that? For some years now I have been working with former Chief of the Defence Staff Lord Hill-Norton in attempts to secure UFO related material from the British Government. Acquisition of Report No 7 and Top Secret DSI/JTIC minutes are part of a much wider research process. Suffice to say, I have also been researching non-UFO material relating to the Cold War. The secret documents were obtained last year from the MOD and the top secret documents were obtained early this year as a result of requesting file numbers from the MOD. >3. The timing of the article may appear to some to be with the >deliberate intention of pre-empting Andy and Dave's release of >of 'Out of the shadows' - is that the case, or was this just a >coincidence? We've actually been researching and gathering material for quite some time. I'm sure you must realise that an article of 5000 plus words does not just materialise without some research being undertaken. Add to this the pressure of business and personal commitments, and you have your answer. There's nothing sinister about the timing; we published when our initial research was completed and our article was written; end of story. >I hope this can be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. Thank >you for your patience with what may seem to you to be trivial >questions, but it is important to ufology - if people become >afraid to publish early findings in case they are pre-empted, >information exchange will be even more severely hampered than it >is already. These are indeed trivial questions; we have been very patient over the last few weeks. This is not important to ufology; what _is_ important is the research material that we've placed in the public domain. We are happy to discuss the content of the article but will not respond to any further posts of this nature. That's all we have to say on the matter. Best wishes Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hale From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:16:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:06:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hale >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:20:42 +0000 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >My recent post about progress in Ufology has stirred a number of >responses, some helpful and some rather incomprehensible. "What is that awful sound, with screeching guitars, and men shouting, how dare they call this music!" A response by the elite in the 50s to the invention of Rock n Roll, played by youngsters in halls and diners. Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Review: 'Abduction In My Life' - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:35:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:09:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Review: 'Abduction In My Life' - Maccabee >From: Nancy Davidson <nld1@ix.netcom.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Review: 'Abduction In My Life' >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:50:39 -0700 >>Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:08:56 -0500 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Subject: Review: 'Abduction In My Life' >Hi >I have just read John Velez review of 'Abduction in My Life' and >plan to read the book as I have the book in my home. >It is great that a List exists for people like him who have been >abducted and people who have seen ufo's. I know what it is like >to see ufo's for I have seen them. I hope you will comment on your impression of the book and whether or not you find in the book anything related to your own experiences.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Virginia Davey <vmdavey@idirect.ca> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:08:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:13:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:11:45 -0600 >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Thus, the abductee's have just as qualified people among the >abductee population to do the same thing with better insight >than a non-abductee researcher. Dear Wendy, Bill, All, Wendy, you are being too modest. Long-time researchers such as yourself who are experts in crypto-aeronautics would bring a much valued perspective and insight to the abduction phenomenon that many abductees lack. It is understandable how one may wish to focus on one area within the field. However, I would be very interested to know what your take on the abduction phenomenon is. Best Regards Virginia Davey Toronto
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:38:55 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:16:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Bill Weber <wweber1@sc.rr.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:48:23 -0400 >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:54:25 -0600 >>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:10:10 EDT >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance -> >Hi, Wendy, >I hope you don't mind me jumping in here as well. You ask some >terrific questions. Dear Wendy, Bill, List, Errol, My two cents. >>Secondly and I'm sure this will ruffle feathers, but I feel it >>must be aired and I'm thick-skinned (headed? <g>) enough to say >>it, that I believe the Abductee's are in serious error in >>demanding that answers or research must come from such >>researchers as Richard Hall, ah heck... make your own List. Uh, did I miss something here, or are these people you mentioned UFO and/or Abduction researchers? Call 'em what you will, but that's their chosen avocation. If not from them, then from whom? Perceived abductees? Sorry, we are too emotionally involved in the phenomena to do much in that department. Research in this field or any other demands answers. And answers are allowed to be in the form of more questions. Who ya' gonna' call? >This reminds me of the conciliatory hugging and back-patting >going on between members of the billions of dollars worth of >intelligence agencies after 911. The upshot seems to be, "No one >could ever have anticipated the terrorist attack." Well, if not >them, who? Why _not_ ask people like Richard Hall the tough >questions? And I'm not insulting or dissing him here, I'm just >asking why not? Agreed. But the issue is not really research is it? For if it was, people would be organizing themsleves into groups, sharing information, data and doing what the physicists do, make bets on who's right. Hawking does that with his peers. When was the last time anyone asked a question of the abductees on this list? Wait, I'm cypherin. Micky's hand is on Minnie's whatsis, divide by the square of .... I got it. Never. >>The field of crypto-aeronautics (sorry everyone, but it's a much >>better term than Ufology because you can't lump channeling, >>crystals, angel's, big foot, mothman, fairies, hobgoblins, >>chupacabras, Marfa lights, purple-robed contactee wannabees, >>etc. within it's parameters...well, maybe only as an obscure >>footnote, but certainly not as a main research element) has >>become so complex that the days of keeping a handle on all >>aspects of the research has ended. It is now the time of >>specialization within the field (specialization is the evolved >>step toward building a science and the historical elements are >>the foundation upon which the science is built). Specialization, eh? In what? There are no answers. No one knows what the hell this phenomena is about. What specialization? How about basic research? OK, how about Jacobs specializing in how bad these dudes are and Hopkins specializing in how benign. And Mack doing his New Age stuff. Sure. And the check is in the mail. And, "Don't worry, sweetheart, I'm sterile." These gentlemen, some, not all, but most of them, are not at all interested in each other's theories. In fact, with my own ears, I've heard one diss the other. So, uh ... where does that put us Crypto Nerdologists? >But nobody has actually solved anything yet. Nobody knows how >the issues you mentioned above are connected, or if even >connected at all. Do you mean we should specialize in areas of >"lack of knowledge?" I know absolutely nothing about physics. >Does that make me a specialist? (Especially uninformed, maybe.) >>However, it seems to me from several years of reading UFO >>Updates posting from Abductees, that the frustration level of >>said Abductee's has reached its epitome. Ever wonder why, Wendy. And can you change your name? I'm getting hungry again. It's because there are no answers. Just debating whether some pilot saw pelicans or flying saucers. Cheeses, Wendy, get a grip. There are people out there suffering and looking in the only place they can for answers. But there's only this bickering and dickering with nothing revealed. At least not to the satisfaction of the perceived abductee. >Hey, when mainstream Ufology can't even get it's primary >'believers' to believe, I'd say they had a problem. Second. >>Further, although I can >>certainly sympathize with the Abductee, I've noticed that among >>the Abductee population are individuals who have leadership >>qualities, great insight, etc. into the abduction phenomenon as >>a whole and from a personal level. So my question is why the >>"whinning, bitching and moaning" about crypto-aeronautic >>researchers not giving 200% of their time and efforts or coming >>up with answers when there are already people such as yourself, >>Jim, that can formulate, coordinate and organize in building a >>coalition of Abductees to take on abduction research and give >>the non-specialist answers? Wull excuuuuse me. But ain't that a good question. I have a partial answer. When someone such as Bill or me or any one of us abductees begins a project, it is dissed up the ying yang. And there is NO participation by mainstream abduction research. In fact, there is even bickering and worse amongst ourselves. It is no wonder we all look like idiots to mainstream science. And it's a wonder that anything like a concerted effort such as the one in which I' ve become involved, can sustain itself. >With all the respect in the world, I don't notice half as much >'whining, bitching and moaning' coming from the abductees as I >do from the "crypto-aeronautic researchers" being asked >difficult questions. And go figure. Abductees aren't privy to >the hundreds, if not thousands, of abduction reports and papers >from which "crypto-aeronautic researchers" make their paltry >book sales. (In fact, if you want to hear real 'whining, >bitching and moaning', ask the average researcher how much money >from abduction research they scraped up this year. And however >little it is, it's of a damn sight more value than the average >abductee gleaned from his or her abduction experience this >year.) Most of the abductees, I've noticed, would rather not be >involved in the experience at all. Do we ask cancer patients to >build their own hospitals, conduct their own research, and put >together their own medical crew because "we're specialists in >not knowing much about them" _and_ because they complain too >much? Gee, maybe they weren't whining, bitching and moaning >enough. <snip> >Far more insightful people than I have rocked Ufology to it's >core over lack of method and science during the years I've read >Updates. Take a look through the archives once again. Get >something together - put together a real methodology - do some >real research, or simply don't call yourself a researcher, >("crypto-aeronautic" or other). People like you hold the aces. >Get on with it. Other people with _real_ issues are waiting. >If I sounded like "Mr. Angry" here, it's not my intent. Too bad. Because I am. Angry enough to do something about it. Through thick and thin, and _outside_ the research community as it appears this is the way they want it. I am presently sharing information with only one researcher on this entire list. And that person is skeptical, at least to someone such as the typical abductee. But you know, I would rather deal with him than anyone else. Why? Because I know the information will be scrutenized fairly and accurately. It is the intention of this perceived abductee to turn that skeptical person into a believer. It won't happen. But maybe, just maybe, he'll ask the right question of our little group of doctors and abductees; the answer to which question will provide some insight. The kind we won't get here. If I sound angry... I am. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Salvaille From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:43:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:18:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Salvaille >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:20:42 +0000 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof Hello Dick, First off, you ignored my response to your other thread, where I addressed every point you brought. Do you think progress can be made by ignoring elements that do not fit your taste? Hardly a scientific attitude. <snip> >My recent post about progress in Ufology has stirred a number of >responses, some helpful and some rather incomprehensible. One >thing that I may not have made clear is that people constantly >complain, and quibble about definitions (e.g., 'New Age'), but >don't seem to be aware of or able to assimilate and put into >practical use, some very worthwhile research results. <snip> You start with a definition of incompetence of your audience. Does this mean that the ones who disagree with you are ignorants and the ones who agree with you are knowledgeable? Be weary of people's opinions. It's a good thing to know where they stand. It's a better thing to know _why_ they stand there. Position of position does not necessarily give you position. <snip> >The main thing I was trying to convey was this: Obviously I am a >member of the 'Old Guard' and The UFO Evidence, Volume II, may >turn out to be my last major effort; nevertheless, it provides >everyone out there who is seriously interested in getting at the >truth a potentially very powerful weapon. Wake up and use it, >and stop complaining about lack of progress! <snip> You associate you book with a _condition_ to progress. No individual is greater than his sport. The relative failure of your book is a symptom of the problems in ufology. But you don't seem to see that. A few good things came out of "Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance". 1. The problem with ufology is with debunkers. 2. The problem with debunkers is that ufology needs to go mainstream. If we all wake up to this reality, and we try to do something about it, then we will be making progress. The lack of progress does not come from not buying you book. The lack of progress comes from going in circles, which is just what ufology has been doing for 55 years. Don't you think it is time for a reflection of the state of ufology, where it is, where it should be heading? Let's put aside 'cases' for a moment. So far they have mainly served as battlegrounds - playgrounds! - for pointless posturing between some researchers and debunkers. Let's think strategy: - Set up the goals. - Describe the present situation. - List the problems. Etc. You know, something like Business Plan 101. In this context, your research could be used as a flagship and that would be great. Otherwise, what's the point? Regards, Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 A Thought Occurs From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:20:07 -0400 Subject: A Thought Occurs A thought occurs to me regarding investigation of the abduction phenomenon and UFOs in general. It would seem to me that if one can produce evidence of the physical reality of abduction by alien beings, then one would, by default, substantiate the ETH as well as resolve a lot of questions regarding UFOs in general. Considering the much-discussed frustration regarding lack of funding for numerous aspects of UFO-related research, I have to wonder why those who consider themselves professional investigators/researchers aren't concentrating on the mystery of the abduction phenomenon exclusively. Solve that mystery, and you solve a whole bunch of other ones by default. Sort of a "kill a bunch of birds with one stone" approach.... Just curious Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:43:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:21:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Sandow >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:20:42 +0000 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >The main thing I was trying to convey was this: Obviously I am a >member of the 'Old Guard' and The UFO Evidence, Volume II, may >turn out to be my last major effort; nevertheless, it provides >everyone out there who is seriously interested in getting at the >truth a potentially very powerful weapon. Wake up and use it, >and stop complaining about lack of progress! Dick is right. His book is a fabulous summary of what we currently know. Or "might know" or "may know" - add your own hedge, depending on what your overall ufological views are. But there's a lot of data in the book. People who wonder where we stand in ufology should at least know what this data is. Some of the most convincing sightings aren't necessarily the most famous ones. And it's all the reports together that make an impressive case, not just a few taken away from the rest. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Cathy Johnson <cej@idirect.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:57:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:33:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:36:26 EDT >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Wull excuuuuse me. But ain't that a good question. I have a >partial answer. When someone such as Bill or me or any one of us >abductees begins a project, it is dissed. And there is _no_ >participation by mainstream abduction research. In fact, there >is even bickering and worse amongst ourselves. It is no wonder >we all look like idiots to mainstream science. And it's a wonder >that anything like a concerted effort such as the one in which >I' ve become involved, can sustain itself. I want to raise the fact that any abductee who tries to start anything, will run into a lot of trouble. If it isn't one thing, it is another. The list is endless and you simply would not believe it anyway. But, there are a few out there who are seriously trying their damnedest to bring something about. Off- hand, I can think of four immediate people who have had abductions, or are just as concerned, and are going through bad times just to keep going. Errol, has a List and a radio show on the go. He could write a book about the troubles he has encountered with just his computer. Then, there are the phone lines and server squabbles that could fill another book of troubles. Pile on top of that a highly motivated individual who has virtually no time for anything other than to do what he is presently doing. That would take a few more books of troubles. Just to follow Errol around, I suppose would compile another book. The fact remains that Errol is enigmatic and dynamic enough to be the best one for the job of hosting SDI. Joni has a little List and enjoys a certain level of authenticity. At one point, there were 227 abductees subscribed to her List. She scrimped and saved enough to keep her precious list going. And, it is. But, there is nothing said of her devotion and the troubles it has caused her. Believe it or not, she is a voice in a wilderness to her subscribers. Is it surprising that some of the conversations from Joni's List wound up as dialogues for X-Files? Gee, who was writing those scripts, anyway? Or, just what was going on in Joni's List to have made such a distinction? But, it doesn't stop there. One winter night, I got a virus that crashed my computer. Five other people on Joni's little List also had the same virus that showed up doing its thing. Oh! Don't think we didn't try to just erase it. We took it to the best, just to solve the problems it caused. Good little virus was quite unique. It wrote a hidden partition, using russian compression and Linux code to develop a self-replicating virus that allowed complete take-over of any computer. It was the earliest known version of Back Orafice. BO has since evolved and is presently called Carnivore. We all know who uses it. But, why did it first appear on the computers of people subscribed to Joni's List in the first place? I know we are being watched. The question is... by whom? The troubles I have with computers make Errol laugh, John cringe, and poor Peter to shake his head in disbelief. There are stories these three can tell you about the effects I have happening all around me at any time. I only started to play with computers in 1992. I wrote stories out with DOS 3.0 Editor on a 10 meg harddrive. Ten years later, I am still writing out stories and my flashbacks are no less for that effort. None of what I have written has sold anywhere. So, who cares what I think about things I think I know about? It sure isn't scientific when I say I pushed buttons to cause things to happen. Ah, but what buttons those ones were! No proof in that, is there? >I am presently sharing information with only one researcher on >this entire List. And that person is skeptical, at least to >someone such as the typical abductee. But you know, I would >rather deal with him than anyone else. Why? Because I know the >information will be scrutenized fairly and accurately. It is the >intention of this perceived abductee to turn that skeptical >person into a believer. It won't happen. But maybe, just maybe, >he'll ask the right question of our little group of doctors and >abductees; the answer to which question will provide some >insight. The kind we won't get here. >If I sound angry... I am. There is a long line of abductees ahead of you who have the right to be just as angry as you are. And, there will be a long line of abductees after you who will also be just as angry, me included. You are far from being the only one who is out there looking for answers that will never be found. Whether it is 'AA', 'BS', 'Roswell', or anything else, just remember that the story is still ongoing. Abductees are still being taken, and there are so many more little lights in our skies that we don't know about. Take care for now, Cathy Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:38:55 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:16:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Bill Weber <wweber1@sc.rr.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:48:23 -0400 >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:54:25 -0600 >>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com> >>>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:10:10 EDT >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance -> >Hi, Wendy, >I hope you don't mind me jumping in here as well. You ask some >terrific questions. Dear Wendy, Bill, List, Errol, My two cents. >>Secondly and I'm sure this will ruffle feathers, but I feel it >>must be aired and I'm thick-skinned (headed? <g>) enough to say >>it, that I believe the Abductee's are in serious error in >>demanding that answers or research must come from such >>researchers as Richard Hall, ah heck... make your own List. Uh, did I miss something here, or are these people you mentioned UFO and/or Abduction researchers? Call 'em what you will, but that's their chosen avocation. If not from them, then from whom? Perceived abductees? Sorry, we are too emotionally involved in the phenomena to do much in that department. Research in this field or any other demands answers. And answers are allowed to be in the form of more questions. Who ya' gonna' call? >This reminds me of the conciliatory hugging and back-patting >going on between members of the billions of dollars worth of >intelligence agencies after 911. The upshot seems to be, "No one >could ever have anticipated the terrorist attack." Well, if not >them, who? Why _not_ ask people like Richard Hall the tough >questions? And I'm not insulting or dissing him here, I'm just >asking why not? Agreed. But the issue is not really research is it? For if it was, people would be organizing themsleves into groups, sharing information, data and doing what the physicists do, make bets on who's right. Hawking does that with his peers. When was the last time anyone asked a question of the abductees on this list? Wait, I'm cypherin. Micky's hand is on Minnie's whatsis, divide by the square of .... I got it. Never. >>The field of crypto-aeronautics (sorry everyone, but it's a much >>better term than Ufology because you can't lump channeling, >>crystals, angel's, big foot, mothman, fairies, hobgoblins, >>chupacabras, Marfa lights, purple-robed contactee wannabees, >>etc. within it's parameters...well, maybe only as an obscure >>footnote, but certainly not as a main research element) has >>become so complex that the days of keeping a handle on all >>aspects of the research has ended. It is now the time of >>specialization within the field (specialization is the evolved >>step toward building a science and the historical elements are >>the foundation upon which the science is built). Specialization, eh? In what? There are no answers. No one knows what the hell this phenomena is about. What specialization? How about basic research? OK, how about Jacobs specializing in how bad these dudes are and Hopkins specializing in how benign. And Mack doing his New Age stuff. Sure. And the check is in the mail. And, "Don't worry, sweetheart, I'm sterile." These gentlemen, some, not all, but most of them, are not at all interested in each other's theories. In fact, with my own ears, I've heard one diss the other. So, uh ... where does that put us Crypto Nerdologists? >But nobody has actually solved anything yet. Nobody knows how >the issues you mentioned above are connected, or if even >connected at all. Do you mean we should specialize in areas of >"lack of knowledge?" I know absolutely nothing about physics. >Does that make me a specialist? (Especially uninformed, maybe.) >>However, it seems to me from several years of reading UFO >>Updates posting from Abductees, that the frustration level of >>said Abductee's has reached its epitome. Ever wonder why, Wendy. And can you change your name? I'm getting hungry again. It's because there are no answers. Just debating whether some pilot saw pelicans or flying saucers. Cheeses, Wendy, get a grip. There are people out there suffering and looking in the only place they can for answers. But there's only this bickering and dickering with nothing revealed. At least not to the satisfaction of the perceived abductee. >Hey, when mainstream Ufology can't even get it's primary >'believers' to believe, I'd say they had a problem. Second. >>Further, although I can >>certainly sympathize with the Abductee, I've noticed that among >>the Abductee population are individuals who have leadership >>qualities, great insight, etc. into the abduction phenomenon as >>a whole and from a personal level. So my question is why the >>"whinning, bitching and moaning" about crypto-aeronautic >>researchers not giving 200% of their time and efforts or coming >>up with answers when there are already people such as yourself, >>Jim, that can formulate, coordinate and organize in building a >>coalition of Abductees to take on abduction research and give >>the non-specialist answers? Wull excuuuuse me. But ain't that a good question. I have a partial answer. When someone such as Bill or me or any one of us abductees begins a project, it is dissed up the ying yang. And there is NO participation by mainstream abduction research. In fact, there is even bickering and worse amongst ourselves. It is no wonder we all look like idiots to mainstream science. And it's a wonder that anything like a concerted effort such as the one in which I' ve become involved, can sustain itself. >With all the respect in the world, I don't notice half as much >'whining, bitching and moaning' coming from the abductees as I >do from the "crypto-aeronautic researchers" being asked >difficult questions. And go figure. Abductees aren't privy to >the hundreds, if not thousands, of abduction reports and papers >from which "crypto-aeronautic researchers" make their paltry >book sales. (In fact, if you want to hear real 'whining, >bitching and moaning', ask the average researcher how much money >from abduction research they scraped up this year. And however >little it is, it's of a damn sight more value than the average >abductee gleaned from his or her abduction experience this >year.) Most of the abductees, I've noticed, would rather not be >involved in the experience at all. Do we ask cancer patients to >build their own hospitals, conduct their own research, and put >together their own medical crew because "we're specialists in >not knowing much about them" _and_ because they complain too >much? Gee, maybe they weren't whining, bitching and moaning >enough. <snip> >Far more insightful people than I have rocked Ufology to it's >core over lack of method and science during the years I've read >Updates. Take a look through the archives once again. Get >something together - put together a real methodology - do some >real research, or simply don't call yourself a researcher, >("crypto-aeronautic" or other). People like you hold the aces. >Get on with it. Other people with _real_ issues are waiting. >If I sounded like "Mr. Angry" here, it's not my intent. Too bad. Because I am. Angry enough to do something about it. Through thick and thin, and _outside_ the research community as it appears this is the way they want it. I am presently sharing information with only one researcher on this entire list. And that person is skeptical, at least to someone such as the typical abductee. But you know, I would rather deal with him than anyone else. Why? Because I know the information will be scrutenized fairly and accurately. It is the intention of this perceived abductee to turn that skeptical person into a believer. It won't happen. But maybe, just maybe, he'll ask the right question of our little group of doctors and abductees; the answer to which question will provide some insight. The kind we won't get here. If I sound angry... I am. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 New Triangle Photo Case From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:10:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:37:22 -0400 Subject: New Triangle Photo Case Dear Listers: There have been recent discourses on the present status or 'fate' of ufology, like, why are people still discussing old cases, and aren't there any new ones worth haggling over, etc. Well, time marches on. Pelican guano may be covering old cases, but not yet the new ones. So, before the excrement hits the rotating blades, check out the newest night time photo of a triangle... and a "car".... that passed through the sky of Lawton, OK. They say Oklahoma is OK... and so, it appears, is this sighting. What do you think? (You are, therefore you think.... I think....)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 NASA - From Middle Butte To Camelback From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:27:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:40:02 -0400 Subject: NASA - From Middle Butte To Camelback NASA Goes From Middle Butte to Camelback: Deja Vu All Over Again A year ago after the last MGS image of the Mars Face was belatedly released, NASA published an article on its web site quoting an MGS scientist's assertion that a volcanic dome called Middle Butte in Idaho "reminded" him of the Mars Face. Apparently assuming that their claims would be uncritically accepted by the public, they provided no image of Middle Butte to support this supposed similarity. It took some digging, but I managed to get an orthophoto of Middle Butte, which can be seen in all of its lopsided glory at: http://www.VGL.org/webfiles/mars/face/middlebutte/middlebutte.htm It's no wonder NASA didn't want to show what this landform really looked like. Their intent was to ridicule others, not make themselves look ridiculous. But now, after falling on their butte, they seem to have decided that maybe they could take people for a ride by camel back. On the latest NASA public 'information' page on the Odyssey image of the Mars Face at: http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20020413a.html it says: "A similar-size hill in Phoenix, Arizona resembles a camel lying on the ground, and Phoenicians whimsically refer to it as Camelback Mountain. Like the hills and knobs of Mars, however, Camelback Mountain was carved into its unusual shape by thousands of years of erosion." Here's a picture of Camelback Mountain: http://www.azcentral.com/travel/arizona/features/valley/camel.html This is what they claim is an "unusual" landform. NASA ought to hire some scientists with better eye sight. The Odyssey image itself, however, is quite interesting. It shows not only the Face but several other interesting Cydonia landforms first imaged by the Viking spacecraft. No amount of public relations trickery is likely to "scotch this thing for good," as one of the MGS bigshots said he hoped would be the outcome of the first MGS image of the Face back in 1998.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Bulletin: 'Pictogram' Also Photographed By THEMIS From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:42:16 -0400 Subject: Bulletin: 'Pictogram' Also Photographed By THEMIS Reader, The unusual triangular feature discovered in 1998, called the "Pictogram" by some, is visible in the new THEMIS image. Despite the relatively lower resolution, the triangular moat that comprises the outermost of the 'embedded triangles' can also be seen. Mac http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 NICAP Newsletters For Sale From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:48:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:43:20 -0400 Subject: NICAP Newsletters For Sale Pilgrims, Not directly on topic, but hopefully the target audience... During a clean out I've come across the following items. If anyone is interested in making me an offer please reply offlist. 28 issues of the UFO Investigator - NICAP newsletter, mainly 1967-1972 with a few earlier ones also. For questions and offers please email me. Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 BBC Special: UFOs Over Wales From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:56:01 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:46:14 -0400 Subject: BBC Special: UFOs Over Wales Source: BBC Wales/ North East. Date: Sunday, 14th April 2002. URL: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/guides/weird/ Stig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:27:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:09:10 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts Pilgrims, I'll leave it to others to untangle what Georgina wrote in: >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:32:59 +0100 But as she says: >We are happy to discuss the content of the article Perhaps she'd like to comment on; >Adamski's visit to Earl Mountbatten's Broadlands estate Georgina and Nick's article states that: "Another to attend the Second Interplanetary Spacecraft Convention and who would go on to meet Lord Mountbatten at his Broadlands estate on 23 February 1955 was George Adamski....." Surely 23rd February 1955 was when the alleged UFO event took place at Broadlands? So where does Adamski come into the story? Having done quite a bit of research on Adamski's world tour when he visited Britain (in 1959, NOT 1955) I haven't come across any reference to Adamski visiting Mountbatten at Broadlands. Mountbatten's personal papers, held at Southampton University, contain extensive references to his interest in UFOs, yet fail to mention such a meeting in either 1955 or 1959. Indeed, by 1959 Mountbatten's interest in UFOs had lessened dramatically. So, I'm intrigued. Perhaps Georgina can enlighten us as to how Adamski met Mountbatten on 23rd Feb 1955 or on what date, and where, he _did_ meet Mountbatten, and what the evidence for that meeting is? Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 UFO*BC Updates From: David Pengilly <dave@ufobc.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:36:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:14:46 -0400 Subject: UFO*BC Updates UFO*BC Website Updates - April 10, 2002 1) www.ufobc.ca - UFO*BC Homepage - Since we lost the services of our webmaster, Ray Skibo, we have reverted back to our old version of the site. It may take a few seconds longer to load but we find it less cluttered and simpler to navigate. 2) http://www.ufobc.ca/guestbook/guestbook.htm - Guestbook - We have re-designed the Guestbook and hope everyone will leave their comments. 3) http://www.ufobc.ca/Sightings/recent.htm - Recently Reported BC Sightings - We thank our partner in Houston BC, Brian Vike, for the amazing amount of research he has done in the last couple of months. 4) http://www.ufobc.ca/yukon/yukonsightings2002.htm - Latest Yukon Sightings - Thanks to Hans Grasholm and the Yukon UFO Research Society. 5) http://www.ufobc.ca/History/1960/nestofufos.htm - "I Lived in a Nest of UFOs" - by Bernice Niblett - Originally appeared in John Magor's Canadian UFO Report Vol 2 No 5 6) http://www.ufobc.ca/Events/events.htm - Peter Davenport Lecture on Saturday, April 20, 2002. - Peter will talk about the latest UFO sightings and also about government secrecy. Peter is always highly entertaining and informative. $15 at the Vancouver Planetarium. 7) http://www.ufobc.ca/History/2000/newmissionphoto.htm - "UFO Photographed near Mission, BC" - analysis of a photograph sent to us 8) http://www.ufobc.ca/History/2000/jackolake.htm - "The Incident at Jacko Lake" - Two fishermen have a strange encounter. ************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:09:57 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:18:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance - >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:55:16 -0500 >Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:41:11 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Progress In Ufology & Mainstream Acceptance >>Also, as I have suggested in several forums (fora) since the >>book is pricey, that people wanting to read it could at least >>ask their local libraries to order a copy. It is, after all, a >>library publisher well-known in the field. Unfortunately, it did >>not get reviewed in Library Journal but the other reviews are >>all pretty positive. >I did ask - they won't do it. I will, however, ask the library >at the University about obtaining a copy. Sorry, didn't think >about that before. I'll get over to the library tomorrow and ask >about it. As for my local library's refusal, it didn't surprise >me. I live in the heart of the Bible Belt, ya know. Around here, >UFO stuff ranks right up there with devil worship. Bobbie, Thanks. University libraries are a good idea. Science (and arts) professors would qualify as opinion-makers. >>My grievance is that it is not, apparently, getting into the >>hands of mainstream opinion-makers who could make a difference. >Who exactly are these mainstream "opinion-makers"? Can you >drop a couple of names, just to make sure we're all on the same >page on that one? I had the publisher send copies to national aviation societies, police organizations, etc., but local contacts might be better in such cases. The police chief (point out the major section on police sightings); the airport manager or local airline office (point out the major section on pilot sightings); etc. Anyone who is in some position of `authority' and influence in the community. Grass-roots education. Of course, `big names' are good too but better yet if they receive information from someone who knows them or has some connection with them. >>I have also suggested that someone orders copies to send to >>important people of their choosing, as a means of getting it >>around. >Did you receive author's copies of the book? If so, who did you >send them to? Letting people know that would prevent someone >duplicating the book as a donation to the same person. Just a >thought. I received six author copies that had to be distributed among the four participating parties (the three UFO groups and myself). Don't worry about duplication. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Kellyj From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:29:26 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:49:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Kellyj >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:43:22 -0400 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >A few good things came out of "Progress In Ufology & Mainstream >Acceptance". >1. The problem with ufology is with debunkers. >2. The problem with debunkers is that ufology needs to go mainstream. >If we all wake up to this reality, and we try to do something >about it, then we will be making progress. The lack of progress >does not come from not buying you book. The lack of progress >comes from going in circles, which is just what ufology has been >doing for 55 years. >Don't you think it is time for a reflection of the state of >ufology, where it is, where it should be heading? >Let's put aside 'cases' for a moment. So far they have mainly >served as battlegrounds - playgrounds! - for pointless posturing >between some researchers and debunkers. >Let's think strategy: >- Set up the goals. -> Describe the present situation. -> List the problems. >Etc. >You know, something like Business Plan 101. >In this context, your research could be used as a flagship and >that would be great. >Otherwise, what's the point? >Regards, >Serge Salvaille Why is debunking such a bad thing? If you use facts instead of fantasy to prove a point then you must be a debunker? If it there were no debunking going on then we would all be channeling Zotar from planet X while holding out our hands for the $500.00 fee as so many of these UFO grifters do? A good UFO case will stand up to investigative scrutiny if there is tangible evidence to support it. Your comments about Ufology 'going in circles for 55 years' tells me that you have not studied many of the cases that have scientific or tangible cover-up evidence to support them. Witness testimony alone will not stand up to this criteria because the scientific community will reject it. It's the reality of this situation that has swallowed up the abduction cases. Lack of physical evidence will _always_ doom it. It does not mean that abduction does not exist, it only means that it will not be accepted. A recent poll by the USA Today claimed that over 28 million people in the U.S. claim that they have been abducted. Now how many of those cases do you think would provide adequate, scientific evidence to support it? My job as a UFO investigator is to make sure that I do the best job I can to investigate my case and to get the information out to the public. The best UFO accounts are the ones with cover-up plastered all over them: 1. Roswell 2. Shag Harbor 3. Valentich disappearance ( my favorite, no one can explain this one ) 4. Delphos UFO Landing 5. Freedom Of Information Act documents concerning UFO information blacked out from the 1940's on up through today. This is simple, yet absolute proof As far as the cases serving as 'battlegrounds' for UFO researchers, we have to expose the bad researcher who puts out inaccurate information and tries to make the quick bucks. If we don't, who would? Jim Kelly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:29:45 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:52:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hall >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:43:22 -0400 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:20:42 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >Hello Dick, >First off, you ignored my response to your other thread, where I >addressed every point you brought. Do you think progress can be >made by ignoring elements that do not fit your taste? >Hardly a scientific attitude. Serge, You certainly are a master of trying someone's patience. You put words in my mouth, and then accuse me of advocating things that I don't advocate or acting out of motives that are not my motives. A few comments insrted below. I don't have time to respond to your every quibble. >>My recent post about progress in Ufology has stirred a number of >>responses, some helpful and some rather incomprehensible. One >>thing that I may not have made clear is that people constantly >>complain, and quibble about definitions (e.g., 'New Age'), but >>don't seem to be aware of or able to assimilate and put into >>practical use, some very worthwhile research results. >You start with a definition of incompetence of your audience. >Does this mean that the ones who disagree with you are ignorants >and the ones who agree with you are knowledgeable? Where did I accuse anyone of incompetence? Only of being unaware of what a strong tool I have handed to them (figuratively speaking). >Be weary of people's opinions. It's a good thing to know where >they stand. It's a better thing to know _why_ they stand there. >Position of position does not necessarily give you position. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Incomprehensible to me. >>The main thing I was trying to convey was this: Obviously I am a >>member of the 'Old Guard' and The UFO Evidence, Volume II, may >>turn out to be my last major effort; nevertheless, it provides >>everyone out there who is seriously interested in getting at the >>truth a potentially very powerful weapon. Wake up and use it, >>and stop complaining about lack of progress! >You associate you book with a _condition_ to progress. No >individual is greater than his sport. The relative failure of >your book is a symptom of the problems in ufology. But you don't >seem to see that. No, I do not! It is a very potentially useful weapon in the battle for people's minds. My book or one of the other comprehensive and sensible ones should be gotten around where they might do some good. >A few good things came out of "Progress In Ufology & Mainstream >Acceptance". >1. The problem with ufology is with debunkers. That's only one of the problems; another major problem is the pseudo-ufologists. >2. The problem with debunkers is that ufology needs to go >mainstream. Of course it does, and that has what I have been trying to do for a lot of years. >If we all wake up to this reality, and we try to do something >about it, then we will be making progress. The lack of progress >does not come from not buying you book. Who said it did? You certainly like to make things personal! >The lack of progress >comes from going in circles, which is just what ufology has been >doing for 55 years. >Don't you think it is time for a reflection of the state of >ufology, where it is, where it should be heading? >Let's put aside 'cases' for a moment. So far they have mainly >served as battlegrounds - playgrounds! - for pointless posturing >between some researchers and debunkers. >Let's think strategy: >- Set up the goals. >- Describe the present situation. >- List the problems. >Etc. Well, well, well! Exactly what I have done in The UFO Evidence, Volume II, including a blueprint for scientific study, analysis of the debunker arguments, careful presentation of hardcore evidence, you name it. Am I also supposed to implement everything all by myself, with zero resources? You don't want much, Serge. Anything else I can hand you on a silver platter? >You know, something like Business Plan 101. >In this context, your research could be used as a flagship and >that would be great. >Otherwise, what's the point? It's very easy to say what needs to be done. It is quite a different matter to scrape up the resources (money, personnel, infrastructure) to do it. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: A Thought Occurs - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:53:52 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Hall >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 >Subject: A Thought Occurs >A thought occurs to me regarding investigation of the abduction >phenomenon and UFOs in general. It would seem to me that if one >can produce evidence of the physical reality of abduction by >alien beings, then one would, by default, substantiate the ETH >as well as resolve a lot of questions regarding UFOs in general. >Considering the much-discussed frustration regarding lack of >funding for numerous aspects of UFO-related research, I have to >wonder why those who consider themselves professional >investigators/researchers aren't concentrating on the mystery of >the abduction phenomenon exclusively. Solve that mystery, and >you solve a whole bunch of other ones by default. >Sort of a "kill a bunch of birds with one stone" approach.... >Just curious >Bobbie Bobbie, Speaking as someone who spent many years investigating abductions, working with the 'victims', attending national and international conferences on the subject, I can give you a very simple answer. The abduction phenomenon is the slipperiest and most elusive aspect of the entire UFO subject. Incidentally, it is covered quite thoroughly in my book. It happens almost invisibly, seldom with outside witnesses (some exceptions, of course), and virtually never leaves behind strong and convincing evidence. You can spend myriad hours and bushels of money without establishing much of anything. Meanwhile, there is a wealth of strongly established physical evidence of all kinds in regard to UFO sightings. In order for abductions to be taken seriously, the strong patterns of UFO evidence need to be disseminated and understood, and the sequence of events which demonstrates that abductions did not suddenly appear out of any meaningful context. Starting with abductions is sort of like beginning your math studies with advanced calculus instead of arithmetic. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Clarke From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:53:34 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:33:05 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Clarke >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:32:59 +0100 >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:07:11 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFO >>1. What aspect(s) of the article do you/Nick regard as >>exclusive? >The publication of _Top Secret_ DSI/JTIC documents (not the >secret ones) was the main scoop, but there are numerous others, >as we have previously explained. These include the linking of >General MacArthur's enquiry concerning a crashed flying bomb >with the Westerham Incident and Dorothy Killgallen's story; >Adamski's visit to Earl Mountbatten's Broadlands estate; and the >whole way in which we explain how wider developments and >rivalries in the scientific intelligence field had a bearing on >how the UFO phenomenon was viewed and handled by the MOD. As the existence of the DSI/JTIC documents was revealed by the Observer, and published on flyingsaucery.com in October 2001, six months before Georgina's article appeared, this was not a 'scoop' by any stretch of the imagination. The story of the 'Westerham Incident; and flying bomb was published in RV Jones' "Most Secret War" which appeared in 1978. If this was a scoop, it was RV Jones's scoop, not Georgina Bruni's...she was 24 years too late! Georgina's sudden interest in the scientific intelligence connection with UFOs can be traced definitively to the Observer article and the material Andy Roberts and I published in October 2001 on our website. As I've explained previously, and as many others who have shelled out for UFO magazine UK have discovered to their chagrin, Georgina's article is simply a potboiler packed full of material borrowed from other people, with nothing new on offer at all. >2. What specifically led you/Nick to request the files relating >to report No. 7 from the PRO, and when was that? > >For some years now I have been working with former Chief of the >Defence Staff Lord Hill-Norton in attempts to secure UFO related >material from the British Government. Acquisition of Report No 7 >and Top Secret DSI/JTIC minutes are part of a much wider >research process. Suffice to say, I have also been researching >non-UFO material relating to the Cold War. The secret documents >were obtained last year from the MOD and the top secret >documents were obtained early this year as a result of >requesting file numbers from the MOD. The DSI/JTIC minutes were released at the Public Record Office under the normal rules in 1996-97 and have been available to anyone who wanted to see them. Their release had nothing to do with Lord Hill-Norton, this is just another example of name- dropping. No UFOlogist took the trouble to check the DSI minutes had any UFO content until I tracked them down in 1999, a fact that can be independently verified by others who have spent time researching at the PRO. It was through following the leads in the minutes that Andy Roberts and I were able to locate the single surviving copy of Report No 7 by the Flying Saucer Working Party. This all happened as far back as October/November 2000. The discovery was announced in the Observer and on Updates in October, 2001, before Georgina or anyone else knew a 'flying saucer working party' even existed. Georgina and Nick can't even get their story to follow consistently. On 3 January 2002 'Nick Pope's Weird World' posted on Updates contained the following paragraph: >two enterprising members of the public have stumbled upon >'DSI/JTIC Report No. 7'. This is the 'full Intelligence study' >referred to in the Air Ministry's response to Winston Churchill's >28 July 1952 memo... No prizes for guessing who the 'two enterprising members of the public' are - as Georgina and Nick can never refer to us directly by name. So on 3 January Nick was grudgingly crediting us with the discovery of the document; three months later he and Georgina had 'acquired' it, as if by magic, and we are written out of the story... talk about 'missing time.' ! The facts above can all be checked by reference to the UpDates Archive. >>3. The timing of the article may appear to some to be with the >>deliberate intention of pre-empting Andy and Dave's release of >>of 'Out of the shadows' - is that the case, or was this just a >>coincidence? >We've actually been researching and gathering material for quite >some time. I'm sure you must realise that an article of 5000 >plus words does not just materialise without some research being >undertaken. Add to this the pressure of business and personal >commitments, and you have your answer. There's nothing sinister >about the timing; we published when our initial research was >completed and our article was written; end of story. Anyone who believes there is no connection between Georgina and Nick's sudden interest in this material and their knowledge of our publishing schedule must be very naive indeed. I think they have seriously under-estimated the UFO community on this occasion. As Joe McGonagle pointed out in his posting, this sort of behaviour is going to make researchers very wary of publishing anything online, and that can only be bad for UFO research. Dave Clarke
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: A Thought Occurs - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:51:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Kaeser >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 >Subject: A Thought Occurs >A thought occurs to me regarding investigation of the abduction >phenomenon and UFOs in general. It would seem to me that if one >can produce evidence of the physical reality of abduction by >alien beings, then one would, by default, substantiate the ETH >as well as resolve a lot of questions regarding UFOs in general. >Considering the much-discussed frustration regarding lack of >funding for numerous aspects of UFO-related research, I have to >wonder why those who consider themselves professional >investigators/researchers aren't concentrating on the mystery of >the abduction phenomenon exclusively. Solve that mystery, and >you solve a whole bunch of other ones by default. >Sort of a "kill a bunch of birds with one stone" approach.... Bobbie- A recent issue of the MUFON Journal had a short article about the Abduction Monitoring Project, which is a well funded study that has been underway for the past several years. This project has been funded through the UFO Coalition and it has been extremely difficult to find subjects who are willing to take part, which resulted in the article being written to try and locate "experiencers" willing to take part. I raise this because it's implied that little money is being spent in abduction research and that UFO researchers aren't attempting to resolve the mystery. Steve PS- Before anyone asks, no information on the AMP investigation is available until the project is completed and the data fully examined.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Food For Thought From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:39:25 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:40:17 -0400 Subject: Food For Thought Many thanks to John Velez for saving the two made-public implant analyses by NIDS so the public can still see them. The fact that the other 16 remain under wraps, and the two made public appear to be metal fragments rather than manufactured technology triggers a thought. If I were running the UFO cover up, I'd find it difficult to come up with a _better_ cover up tactic than to feed NIDS two subjects "implanted" with ordinary metal fragments. I'd guess in all of the 300 million U.S. citizens, a couple could be found who were willing to be implanted with metal fragments and to then volunteer to NIDS for removal and analysis. Some money, and a maybe a threat or two against family members can work wonders. The news that some implants are mere metal fragments would be very handy in efforts to discredit _all_ implantees, especially if such a "distinguished organization" as NIDS keeps the others under wraps. If I were the cover up boss, that gambit would appeal to me. Eleanor White Hamilton, Ontario
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: New Triangle Photo Case - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:20:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:41:57 -0400 Subject: Re: New Triangle Photo Case - Hatch >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:10:56 -0400 >Subject: New Triangle Photo Case >Dear Listers: >There have been recent discourses on the present status or 'fate' >of ufology, like, why are people still discussing old cases, and >aren't there any new ones worth haggling over, etc. >Well, time marches on. >Pelican guano may be covering old cases, but not yet the new >ones. So, before the excrement hits the rotating blades, check >out the newest night time photo of a triangle... and a >"car".... that passed through the sky of Lawton, OK. They say >Oklahoma is OK... and so, it appears, is this sighting. >What do you think? (You are, therefore you think.... I >think....) Hello Bruce: Did you intend to provide a clickable URL for the photo? I'd like to see it. Best! - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:22:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:44:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Clark >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:43:08 -0400 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:20:42 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>The main thing I was trying to convey was this: Obviously I am a >>member of the 'Old Guard' and The UFO Evidence, Volume II, may >>turn out to be my last major effort; nevertheless, it provides >>everyone out there who is seriously interested in getting at the >>truth a potentially very powerful weapon. Wake up and use it, >>and stop complaining about lack of progress! >Dick is right. His book is a fabulous summary of what we >currently know. Or "might know" or "may know" - add your own >hedge, depending on what your overall ufological views are. But >there's a lot of data in the book. People who wonder where we >stand in ufology should at least know what this data is. Some of >the most convincing sightings aren't necessarily the most famous >ones. And it's all the reports together that make an impressive >case, not just a few taken away from the rest. Let me second what Greg says with a quote from my review of Dick's book in the new (Winter 2001-02) issue of IUR (CUFOS, 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659): ".... what will surely be among the UFO literature's seminal works..... The most comprehensive one-volume overview of the phenomenon in print... In the not-imminent world to come... when a future generation of scientists - starting, surely, with exobiologists desperate to justify their existence after decades of failed SETI hunts and prophecies - confronts an almost- certainly-ongoing mystery of unexplained UFO sightings head-on, Hall's will seen seen as one of the enduring works of the early UFO era, the source of most of what needs knowing about that era." In short: The UFO Evidence II is not just another UFO book. Everyone who's on this List, or anybody anywhere who presumes to speak knowledgeably about the UFO phenomenon, would be well advised to have a copy at hand. . Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Alfred's Odd Ode #361 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:30:38 +0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:50:08 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 Alfred's Odd Ode #361 Betrayal's a coinage that cannot be spent except where it's misspent against common sense, and I have discovered (while out of the box) that as fast as a hare and as quick as a fox... the soul of derision's at work with a passion, confusion's the rule or I'm just some "gas" passin'. Where is the profit embracing new tyranny, forgetting our history, or losing our memory? Some _years_ are invested, some time has been spent, and we all have a stake in this 'stuff' that seems 'bent'. "We" could try harder to show some respect for the base rank and file gone dismissed, I reflect. Words are the magic we use to convey a fellowship found on this List holding sway, so I must be insolent, and challenge those found but knock them from towers and run them to ground, as volunteers won't often step to the plate when the strongest reaction is bile and hate. Some carry-on about 'data' and 'science', and bore on forever statistic's reliance, protesting the lack of respect they'd withhold from the proactive drive of the more-active bold! The mainstream detests them, that's where they're not keen, so true recognition's _denied_ them all, see? The mainstream's invested in all the "big lies," only _some_ follow "rules"... for their trouble -- despised. A pro-active effort's decried and demeaned, and a pro-social action's despised as obscene! Ones simple conjecture to help fill the "void" is attacked without mercy, abhorred and destroyed. There is no 'discussion', there is no 'debate' of the sort that's not answered with malice and hate. There is _only_ divergence and disintegration. There are base accusations with _flimsy_ foundation. A pro-active effort that is made in good faith is dismissed with revulsion and is heaped with disgrace! ...And it seems so reflexive, cross-purposed, and mean. What does it indicate? What does it mean? Where is the unity that's shared by the 'bunkies? Our squabbles must paint us as "dweezles" and "flunkies"! ...We _can_ be these flunkies, produced in deceit, awash in reluctant complacent conceit. Confused by a mainstream that herds us like goats (one hand in our pocket and one hand on our throats), we're sheeple abused by a culture that's driven to hide an agenda too old and well hidden. Secrets abide! We would find its no joke that conspiracy rules, and with that, little hope. Some put the blame on an interested "buff", dismissed on a whim like they've had quite enough! Some go afield to insult hapless people (expected to buy what they're selling, be real)! And narrow the scope to a slender percentage that *science* would measure to shore up its image (?) and find at the last that their less is _much_ more=85 So, they've closed all the avenues and sealed their doors. They don't reward diligence... a convenient retreat that the -charmed- have assumed for their use by deceit. The problem _remaining_ is they've not progressed from the first of last century! Of needs, I protest. Advancement is _glacial_ and does not move on! It is tepid, distracted, too slow and prolonged! It won't get the air time as it can't get respected! It's a change to the order of folks "they" neglected! Those that were first will assume the last place in a future the future will bring in its grace. There's more than is dreamt in the dreams of mere man. There's more than we would or we could understand. There's more that's allowed than is measured with "tools" that limit ones "reach" to the "grasp" of a fool. It's not the "new-ager" that howls from the dust (which comes from the folks that we thought we could trust). It's not the "fringe wacko" proclaiming his dreams for a shot at a book deal that some find obscene. Its not from an "armchair" the enemy comes, or from writers that frequent this List -- beating drums... ...It comes from a mainstream that some _still_ pursue, though it "chumps" them completely and plays them for fools. The "fringe" is a _symptom_ it's not the disease! It's duplicitous "mainstreams" causing scabs on their knees! And still they would chase it, fair caper and fawn, for mainstreams of psychopaths who string them along. Now me, all I'm seeing are lights in the sky, and folks that I trust tell me "truths" just like "lies." My culture's a fibber that fronts for the charmed! It's the price put on justice that should cause one alarm. The cops are corrupt as the lawyers they fear and the priests may be chicken-hawks who pander and leer. The media's fraught with its "too pretty face" that contrives an acceptance for the future disgraced. What is trust _worthy_ in what we have now? =85can't _make_ a silk purse from the ear of a sow! Ufology's laughed at? Abductees are fools? Researchers are wasting their time or are ghouls? That mainstream is sullen and won't give an inch, if it does it unravels (the son-of-a-bitch)! One little pull on a thread in its cloak and the whole thing unravels! It's almost a joke! It'll never acknowledge the work of Dick Hall! It won't bow to science or method at all. Good science? A threat to the old status quo! A jab in the ass of "the man", don't you know? Don't think for a minute it's going to play fair. Think anything else and be doomed to despair. So where are we now in advancing the truth? How _can_ we (but) put what we've learned to best use? The tools in the shed have been sharp as a tack. But tools are neglected, misused or mal- racked. Scalpels spread butter, hammers crack eggs, while the mainstream's unhappy that "weird stuff" has legs. A gauntlet's been made (and that's not a bad thing that the claims that are made should be checked in refrain...), but gauntlets turn ugly, attacks are then made that are seen as more personal... ideas mislaid. Divergence is _key_ to the treasure of choice. It defines our successes, puts range on our voice. And betray, at your peril, the people you need to support your "good" work, you will need them indeed=85 Practice exclusion and find you're shut out, just so much passed gas I was talking about. Lehmberg@snowhill.com At the risk of being unintelligible to a much too easily baffled Richard Hall or inordinately inconclusive to a too-quick-to- dismiss Dave Furlotte (SDI Saturday night...), we're, all of us, betrayed by a hijacked "mainstream"... while yet another bit of ufological cannon-fodder seemed willing to step forward into the breech of the buzz-saw. He collected an array of impressive witnesses and (intelligently) volunteered personal medical and other official documentation. A police report of anomalous sightings in the area and time of his reported abduction, and 911 calls with regard to that abduction, are samples of the kinds of evidence it has been alleged can be produced to support some, albeit, pretty startling claims. Additionally, it has been claimed that a quality big city medical group has shown interest in this contested "other" peripherally, as he may be typical of a regional anomalous medical condition the medical group has become (somewhat?) intrigued by. This interest is generated by weird physical manifestations (that can also be allegedly documented) which cannot be self inflicted. Forget the truth or falsehood of these claims a moment. The claimer was willing to stand on the precipice with his claims, regardless (for a refreshing change!). He was willing to provide assurances (_given_ assurances), that he could back up his claims... forgetting also that evidence of veracity was demanded (this time _only_) in a manner asked of no other self proclaimed abductee guesting on SDI. ...A point glaring for the rank and file I think it fair to add... maybe not. ...Where is the easy willingness to give this man the rope he needs to hang himself? That's what some will maintain is all he can do? He says his pool is full of water and he's standing on the board. He wanted to give this potential "short vein to the mother-load" (?) to his friends; however, his detractors (detractor?) don't appear willing to look below the "fill to" line of the pool... Now all this would be fine with some "Nicky New-guy" that sashayed into UpDates unannounced abruptly and rattled off this big kahuna of a cornucopic claim (there would be better "fill" lines that could be evaluated, presumably) but this claim was from one of the "contributing team" with a few years of idiosyncratic credit put paid! Moreover, he was rather selflessly putting himself on the line for a collection of people he thought were his interested friends -- and wanted to make them the beneficiary of something he says he is able to contribute. He should be afforded the opportunity to sink or swim on his own recognizance, just based on the preceding, one would think. But no. His claims are so outrageous and his detraction has been so (quietly) vociferous he must be vindicated or implode in awful shame. Lord knows I would be the first to string my guitar with his steaming entrails, given his _demonstrated_ sociopathy; assuming he's not crazy, my sense of personal betrayal would be keen... "No good deed will go unpunished," apparently, and "the evil that men do lives on and on... while the good that they do is interred with their bones..." As these particular bones are too reflexively interred (with seeming prejudice) given the, to date, acceptable history of the bones in question, I find myself evaluating the judging more than the judged. C'mon gang! It wouldn't be _me_ but we didn't explore the cloud in the silver lining a little bit. UpDates is stepping blithely with a strange reflexive resolve, and what ufological Taliban has flown into _our_ towers, anyway? Gee, was that a little too "incomprehensible" for you, Sir? Sorry. It's a big world outside the accepted 2% of what's observed, measured, and repeated. Finally, that specious argument regarding extra-ordinary claims requiring extra-ordinary evidence has been righteously (and I think reasonably) exploded by Jean Van Gemert as a "think cloak" assumed to provide retreat for the garden variety skeptibunky. It is a clever feint into the obvious fallacy of an always "receding evidentiary horizon." This argument assumes that the "evidence" can always be made subordinate to an evaluation of the claim's 'extraordinariness' which remains defined only by the skeptibunky and has no _upper_ limit. That's a _sword_ that cuts only _one_ way, and has no place on UpDates or science (imnsho), forgetting that it's not the skeptibunkies that are going to solve this little ufological conundrum for the genuinely interested. No, it is the innocent members of a conscientiously courageous team individually (and bravely) stepping up to the hard-ball plate and expecting a clean pitch from a respected colleague that will put wood on _that_ pill! We're blowing it, UpDates, and as we don't often (if ever) get a ball that leaves the park (while remembering also that we're likely running out of innings, like any other variety of even self-aware pond scum), we shouldn't be reflexively shutting windows we haven't even stuck our heads through, yet. I've stuck my head through the window in question a little farther than most and it seems to me like there's a place to step on the other side, plus indications of a whole new landscape. Add all the substantiation that's 'supposed' to be there, and my thoughts are that this floats more than sinks. I'll be the first to admit it if I find out I'm wrong. Read on? ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario - Cameronc From: Cory Cameron <kecksburg@cnwl.igs.net> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:58:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:53:33 -0400 Subject: Re: HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario - Cameronc >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:47:33 -0700 >Subject: HBCC UFO: Morrisburg, Ontario >Trying to keep up with the UFO front and do my baby sitting >duties. Actually I love the babysitting duties the best. Anyway, >here is a short report I received from a fellow back in Ontario. >I am making arrangements to call and discuss his sighting in >depth. Also everyone, I have received photos from two different >sightings, so working on this, but not until later this weekend. >Will keep you posted on everything. <snip> >Hi, my name is (deleted by HBCC UFO) and during the summer of >1999 I saw what at the time was unexplainable... and as far as I >am still aware still is... I am ex-military so this is my >account, ruling out the possibility that it was a flare or >falling meteorite or anything of that type..... >I was driving home from work on a beautiful clear cool summer >night at about 2:30 am and as I approached my home town was >startled to see a wolf standing at the edge of the highway (hwy >2)...But that in itself pales in comparison to what I saw next. >As I looked at the wolf out of the car window something else >caught my attention. What I saw was an orange red orb >descending from the sky north of the town... now I know what a >flare looks like and I'm telling you this was bright but it >wasn't a flare, and whatever it was it went down behind the tree >line and did not come back up..again why I know it was not a >flare is because it's decent from what I saw started at to high >an altitude.... >If there have been or you have heard about anything similar to >this please let me know, my email is (deleted by HBCC UFO) I live less than a half hours drive away from Morrisburg - not to mention my summer job situates me at Upper Canada Village, a mere two minutes drive away... With Regards, Cory Cameron
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:01:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:09:19 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 >>Subject: A Thought Occurs <snip> >Bobbie, >Speaking as someone who spent many years investigating >abductions, working with the 'victims', attending national and >international conferences on the subject, I can give you a very >simple answer. The abduction phenomenon is the slipperiest and >most elusive aspect of the entire UFO subject. It also seems to be one of the aspects that gets the most publicity. The 'slipperiest' subject would, to me, be the most challenging, too. I admit that, until recently, I was not real big on the idea of dealing with the subject of abduction. It has, in the past, simply been more hassle that it was worth to me. Interacting with a perceived abductee has changed my mind in that regard. I now actually hold some glimmer of cautious optimism that something significant will be accomplished in this aspect in the very near future. >Incidentally, it is covered quite thoroughly in my book. Which reminds me... the University I attend will consider adding your book to its library. They're doing budget junk now, so time will tell, I suppose. <snip> >You can spend myriad hours and bushels of money >without establishing much of anything. Yes, but think of the reward if you actually are The One who finally answers the question as to whether or not abduction by aliens is a physical reality. You get credit for solving _that_ mystery, you help a hell of a lot of people who can now say, thanks to you, "I told you so!" You also, by default, get the credit for answering the question of whether or not there is intelligent life out there in the universe, whether that intelligent life is hanging around our little planet, whether space travel between star systems is possible for biological beings, etc. If you're going to spend myriad hours and bushels of money researching and investigating something anyway, why not spend it investigating something that may actually help a lot of people and answer a lot of questions in one swoop? Based on the current information crossing this List, I think it is safe to say that no researcher/investigator does this sort of work because of the big bucks it pays. Therefore, the motivation must be desire to do it or something else other than money. So if one is going to do it anyway, for whatever reason, why not concentrate on this one area and try to count as many chickens as possible when you actually hatch something? <snip> >Starting with abductions is sort of like beginning your math >studies with advanced calculus instead of arithmetic. I understand what you're saying but I have to wonder why, if no one is apparently taking much of an interest in the basic math, you don't move along to the calculus to see if you can maybe generate some results that will, in turn, foster a renewed interest in the basic math again. And I'm not speaking necessarily of you personally here. I am using the term 'you' in the plural, generic sense here. Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 HBCC UFO: Palouse, Washington, Pictures From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:28:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:16:09 -0400 Subject: HBCC UFO: Palouse, Washington, Pictures Hi List I posted this report a little while ago, if you follow the URL below the full report, plus pictures are on my website. I had a melt down with my main page where all the links go to the different reports, cases, etc.. but please bare with me, I am trying to get it back up and running. Your input is welcome. Take care Brian HBCC UFO ----- Hello Brian I have been following with interest the reports which you have been discussing on UFO UpDates regarding the sightings in British Columbia. I have also read similar reports on the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle. I have decided to write to you after reading your March 27 report and the mention of aircraft patrolling the area. You may be interested in learning that I have also been observing a variety of bright nocturnal lights on a regular basis since February 2, 2002 and have also observed aircraft patrolling the skies in our area since February 4. There appear to be a number of similarities between what is occurring in British Columbia, and what I have been observing in Spokane. For full report and photos: http://www.geocities.com/ufologia_canadiana/Palouse.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 EW: Brazilian UFOport Project Strains Credibility From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:45:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:18:37 -0400 Subject: EW: Brazilian UFOport Project Strains Credibility ------------------------------------------------------------ The Electric Warrior : Web Log April 15, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com ------------------------------------------------------------ BRAZILIAN UFOPORT PROJECT STRAINS CREDIBILITY ufo & extraterrestrial intelligence artwork: Why Don't They Land on the White House Lawn? http://www.electricwarrior.com/expose/ewWhiteHouseLawn.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - The Mayor of a small town in southern Brazil has announced his intention to build Earth's first UFOport, a landing pad for unidentified flying objects. Serious ufologists are advised that the political leader's antics have already gained notoriety in recent years. Elcio Berti, the Mayor of Bocaiuva do Sul told the Agence France Presse (AFP) with utter seriousness that extraterrestrials authorized him to build the UFOport, supposedly financed by both aliens and human beings. As reported by El Tiempo, "Berti told the AFP that he is collaborating with a dozen Brazilian ufologists and that he himself has established contact with the aliens." The mayor told AFP his city lacked the infrastructure to support the anticipated flow of tourists. In fact, the town is reportedly struggling with impoverished economic conditions. The Brazilian state lost a sizable amount of federal funding in recent years, thanks to a drop in population. Berti first gained notoriety when he decreed a ban on birth control in an effort to boost the town's pregnancies. The following year he offered to hand out free Viagra prescriptions. The Electric Warrior has uncovered that the mayor has gone so far as to ban smoking, - presumably to prolong life in the small town - all in an apparent effort to regain federal funding. The Institute of Hispanic Ufology's English language translations contributed to this story. ------------------------------------------------------------ RELATED RESOURCES 13-Apr-02 Brazil Builds Its First UFOport http://www.electricwarrior.com/txt/EW_15APR02_BRAZIL_UFOPORT.txt (El Tiempo) - The Mayor of Bocaiuva do Sul, 30 km south of Curitiba (Paran=E1) claims having receive "extraterrestrial" authorization to build, together with professional ufologists, the first landing pad for unidentified flying objects (UFOs). "We have been working four years on the project together with ufologists and extraterrestrials and the latter have authorized me to make a public announcement." 19-Nov-97 Brazilian Mayor Demands: Make Babies for Money http://www.tabloid.net/97/11/19/ (Tabloid News Service) - The little town of Bocaiuva do Sul in Southern Brazil is dead broke and its population is dwindling. But the mayor's got a bright idea to fix all that: Ban birth control pills, condoms, diaphragms and anything else that might prevent pregnancy. Pretty soon Bocaiuva do Sul with have thousands of new babies. And thousands of new babies means a population increase. And that means more federal tax money. 25-Jun-98 Nutty Mayor: I'll Give Away Free Viagra! http://www.tabloid.net/1998/06/25/viagrababies_980625.html (Tabloid News Service) - Elcio Berti, the baby-crazy mayor of tiny Bocaiuva do Sul in southern Brazil, has a new plan to help boost the population of his shrinking town: He's going to hand out free Viagra. ------------------------------------------------------------ THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR April 15, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo ------------------------------------------------------------ Artworks are created exclusively for the Electric Warrior Website. They can be downloaded and cached for individual use, but may not be reproduced or used in any other context without permission. The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. The content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: A Thought Occurs - Velez From: John Vlez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:53:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:32:56 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Velez >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 <snip> >Speaking as someone who spent many years investigating >abductions, working with the 'victims', attending national and >international conferences on the subject, I can give you a very >simple answer. The abduction phenomenon is the slipperiest and >most elusive aspect of the entire UFO subject. Incidentally, it >is covered quite thoroughly in my book. It happens almost >invisibly, seldom with outside witnesses (some exceptions, of >course), and virtually never leaves behind strong and convincing >evidence. You can spend myriad hours and bushels of money >without establishing much of anything. Hi Dick, Been saying this every chance I get since 1995 - and others have said it before me..... A multi-disciplinary study conducted by an independent and _impartial_ institution or university, using thorough and rigorous empirical scientific methods would go a long way toward securing reliable data and maybe even a few answers to the many questions posed by reports of UFO abduction. Such a study may even establish a bit of sorely needed academic credibility for the field of abduction research. Much to the shame of modern science and scientists, such a multi-disciplinary study by an independent and impartial group of experts has never been performed. Nor are there any plans for such a study in the works. I have suggested in the past that we include independent, _unbiased_ credentialed professionals working with carefully screened and selected subjects; whose cases have been investigated by known, and respected researchers in the field; who have established through careful investigation that the subject is a credible person of good character. Until that happens, knitting or crocheting may be good hobbies to take up while we all wait for _reliable_ data/answers. >Meanwhile, there is a wealth of strongly established physical >evidence of all kinds in regard to UFO sightings. In order for >abductions to be taken seriously, the strong patterns of UFO >evidence need to be disseminated and understood, and the >sequence of events which demonstrates that abductions did not >suddenly appear out of any meaningful context. Starting with >abductions is sort of like beginning your math studies with >advanced calculus instead of arithmetic. Excellent analogy. Regarding abduction: If this planet _is_ under the scrutiny of alien intelligences, then the fact that human subjects are being taken and studied along with cattle, water and soil samples, etc. should come as no real surprise to anyone. Abductions are almost an expected manifestation of behavior on the part of any 'alien' intelligence/s that may be here increasing their own knowledge base of the many manifestations of Life in the Universe. Cull a few from the herd, bag em, tag em, catalog the data and move on. You visit your study projects every time their number comes up in the rotation. It explains the life-long cyclical nature of abduction. Makes perfect sense. The oft-reported abduction of human beings by UFO occupants may be pointing directly at the much sought after 'Why?' to the phenomena presented by UFOs. Depending on who is contemplating the question, the explanation for the abduction phenomenon could be as simple - or as complex - as that. "For the first time in our history, we're studying something that's studying us!" --C.D.B. Bryan Regards, John Velez Abductee Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:06:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:28:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Hatch >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:43:08 -0400 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:20:42 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>The main thing I was trying to convey was this: Obviously I am a >>member of the 'Old Guard' and The UFO Evidence, Volume II, may >>turn out to be my last major effort; nevertheless, it provides >>everyone out there who is seriously interested in getting at the >>truth a potentially very powerful weapon. Wake up and use it, >>and stop complaining about lack of progress! >Dick is right. His book is a fabulous summary of what we >currently know. Or "might know" or "may know" - add your own >hedge, depending on what your overall ufological views are. But >there's a lot of data in the book. People who wonder where we >stand in ufology should at least know what this data is. Some of >the most convincing sightings aren't necessarily the most famous >ones. And it's all the reports together that make an impressive >case, not just a few taken away from the rest. >Greg Sandow Hello Greg: I have to agree completely! Richard Hall's books are among the richest sources of quality sightings I have seen anywhere. His latest, UFO Evidence II is the primary source for no less than 178 events, and secondary source to an equal number which were written up elsewhere .. possibly his earlier works. IF UFOE II is pricey, the first version The UFO Evidence (1964, reprinted 1996) is a screaming bargain at $7.95! Barnes and Noble may still have them. The 1964 work is credited with an amazing 231 plus 162 events .. not to mention two other Hall books which came in between. That's stellar performance for a single individual by any standards, especially my picky ones. It is a joy _not_ having to dig thru reams of airy prose, looking for times/dates/locations and other vital info; .. all the while worried the story will dissolve into a balloon or planet. For all the junk that gets published, I am indeed pleased to day that these works, UFOE II especially, are the polar opposite. By all means, ask for it at the library if the price is too high. If they don't have it, put in a formal request that they get it in. Libraries regularly purchase books at these prices and much higher, but _only_ if requested! I'd like to see it in every library in America. - - - - - Have the following info handy when you visit the library: The UFO Evidence (Volume II .. A Thirty Year Report) by Richard H. Hall; Publ: Scarecrow Press Inc., Lanham, MD and London, UK 2000 / 2001. ISBN 0-8108-3881-8 - - - - - Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle<joe@mcgonaglenet.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:56:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:45:40 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:32:59 +0100 >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:07:11 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>1. What aspect(s) of the article do you/Nick regard as >>exclusive? >The publication of _Top Secret_ DSI/JTIC documents (not the >secret ones) was the main scoop, but there are numerous others, While these two documents are interesting, all that they convey is the start and the end of the Flying Saucer Working Party. Since Dave and Andy published that the first meeting of the FSWP was in October 1950, and the final report was produced in June 1951, they don't reveal anything that was not already in general circulation. Dave and Andy published their article at www.flyingsaucery.com in October, 2001. >as we have previously explained. These include the linking of >General MacArthur's enquiry concerning a crashed flying bomb >with the Westerham Incident and Dorothy Killgallen's story; The link between General MacArthur's enquiry concerning a crashed flying bomb and the Westerham incident was established as early as July 1968. I wish to acknowledge Barry Greenwood for kindly providing me with a copy of the article from the Physics Bulletin in which it appeared, by the way. Your article does not provide any evidence to support any connection between the Westerham incident and Dorothy Killgallen's remarks whatsoever. >Adamski's visit to Earl Mountbatten's Broadlands estate; and the >whole way in which we explain how wider developments and >rivalries in the scientific intelligence field had a bearing on >how the UFO phenomenon was viewed and handled by the MOD. Andy has already raised a query regarding Mountbatten/Adamski. As for the rest, there were clear inferences in R.V.Jones's book 'A Most Secret War' and in the 1968 article that there were two camps within the MOD, one which was highly sceptical and the other which was more open-minded, and that the sceptical camp were the real policy-makers. This is no great revelation. <snip> I actually bought the UFO Magazine in the hope that there would be some solid new material in the article, but was extremely disappointed. The best part of the article was the biographical material on some of the characters involved, which saved me a trip to the public library. I found nothing original or exclusive in it at all, in spite of the liberal scatterings of the words "World Exclusive" in the magazine and on the UFOMAG website. The bulk of the material (aside from the PRO documents) was drawn from previous publications, largely 'A Most Secret War' (R.V.Jones), 'The Scareship Mystery - A Survey Of Phantom Airship Scares, 1909-1918', (edited by Nigel Watson), material from the Robertson panel, and 'The Report On Unidentified Flying Objects' (E.Ruppelt). I suppose I will have to wait for '"Out Of The Shadows' to get the real deal. Regards, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 11th Annual International UFO Congress - Review From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:19:22 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:49:21 -0400 Subject: 11th Annual International UFO Congress - Review 11th Annual International UFO Congress (Las Vegas Weekly) Aliens among us Extraterrestrials are here and are making contact - at least, that's what several hundred people in Laughlin were told recently at the 11th Annual International UFO Congress, a harmonic convergence of remote viewers, ET investigators, Harvard professors, retired military personnel and others who just want the truth - and the ET technologies. (The Weekly's introduction. The whole report is found below.) ** Source: Las Vegas Weekly, March 21, 2002. URL: http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2002/03_21/news_coverstory_index.h tml Stig. *** Among Believers They say they have proof, now researchers want the technology By Joe Schoenmann (schoenmann@vegas.com) * "Welcome to Earth!" We held up our arms in a communal Y and half-heartedly chanted the phrase three times in unison. "That's all, you can sit down now," raspy Dr. Roger Leir told those gathered at the River Palms for his lecture on the surgical removal of alien implants. He explained that spotters were sitting outside the Laughlin casino, gazing into the skies to see if our collective thoughts of goodwill had attracted any mind reading extraterrestrials. "A little experiment is all." No one reported that a UFO had shown up; if it had it would have been the ninth time in 11 years that a flying disk made its presence known to the faithful at the International UFO Congress, held in Laughlin in recent years. It's always easy to find the convention--just look for the giant inflatable green alien outside. The plastic creature is a bit of camp, a little humor for those who see little in what they firmly believe is ongoing, multi-species visits to Earth by beings from outer space. And of the 30 or so speakers who spent the week in Laughlin, these weren't your run-of-the-mill, armchair ET experts. Leir, a California physician, joined ex-high ranking military officials, a Pulitzer Prize-winning Harvard Medical School professor, anthropologists, a Las Vegas psychologist, physics professors and even a journalist or two. Though the event this year drew fewer people, about 450 versus 1,000 in 2001--attributed to the aftereffect of 9/11--the information was fascinating and, if believed, potentially explosive. It went beyond merely trying to prove that UFOs have extraterrestrial connections--that's old hat. The effort now is to get the United States government--or, more precisely, a "shadow government" that speakers say not even George Dubya has access to--to release the super-advanced technologies back- engineered from downed spacecraft. These include anti- gravitational propulsion engines, pollution-free and virtually perpetual energy machines and medicines to extend life hundreds of years. To the believers, this science could mean the difference between a world destroying itself and a virtual utopia. Non-believers will always consider it just another way for the weak-minded, the gullible and the idealistic to fantasize about such utopias, and aliens and flying saucers are merely the modern-day equivalents of gnomes, faeries, leprechauns and gods. Of course, they didn't attend the 11th Annual International Congress. If they had, they might have come away believing those ancient peoples deserved a little more credit. Then again, they also might have come away believing the world is crazier than they first thought. . . . THE ALIEN BABY OF RUSSIA An unexpected fallout from the collapse of the Soviet Union was the opening of former state secrets, including KGB files and now, it seems, video footage of UFO encounters in space. Then, of course, there's the alien baby corpse. Author Michael Hesemann brought videotape of both to Laughlin. A week before the Congress, Hesemann, of Duesseldorf, Germany, purchased the tape from the grandson of a former Soviet military leader who had died. The tape included many shots of lights moving around the Mir space station. Hesemann also had interviews with three- and four-star generals readily testifying about military encounters with UFOs. "It was a cover-up," said one general. "We were again and again confronted (by UFOs) and it was always covered up." The military men revealed that the UFOs became so common around Russian nuclear facilities that they had developed a "conditional relationship" with the craft: They knew that all they'd have to do was move or fiddle with a nuke and the UFOs would appear. Hesemann also showed KGB footage taken from stationary cameras affixed to an American space shuttle. Against the black-on-black of space, tiny white lights hovered around the Mir space station in 1997. "But you don't know it, because they don't want you to know it," Hesemann said, admonishing his audience. "I had to come all the way from Germany to show it, and they should show it to you. You paid for the shuttle, didn't you?" People clapped. Hesemann quieted them. Then he rolled the alien corpse tape. Hesemann--his crisp accent reminiscent of Mike Myers' German "Dieter" character on "Saturday Night Live"--said on June 3, 1996, a 79-year-old woman living in the mountains of the Republic of Georgia came upon a baby "creature" in the middle of the road. It appeared sick, so the woman took it home and nursed it. All it would eat were sweets. Three weeks in, the woman became sick and saw a doctor, who told her she probably had cancer. Though she complained that she had to get home--"Oh, I have the creature and I have to take care of it," Hesemann mimicked--she remained hospitalized for six weeks. When authorities finally decided to check her home, they found the creature dead. The videotape shows local police, half-smirking and looking dumbfounded, holding the blackened thing with bare hands and measuring it with a metric ruler. There are five bone plates to its head, fused together to form a pointed ridge down the middle from forehead to the back base; and a right-angled ridge is formed along the base, making it look somewhat like a helmet (go to www.michaelhesemann.com for pictures). Like most people there, I was swept up by Hesemann's presentation, wishing it to be real--but thinking it looked a bit like a homemade prop for a Halloween costume. I didn't laugh, though. No one did. Hesemann vows the footage is authentic--not the phony stuff that became the basis of a cable TV special last year. He's putting his footage where his mouth is: He's asking scientists to take a look. "I want the research community to be involved with this because I want their opinion," he said. . . . PERPETUAL MOTION (AND OTHER ALIEN TOYS) More than 20 years ago, businessman James Gilliland, a Southern California native, almost drowned. His quest to relive the bliss that he felt at death's door finally drew him to Trout Lake, Wash., at the base of Mt. Adams. Not only is the ranch a rural slice of heaven, secluded and wooded with a magnificent view of Mt. Hood, but Gilliland thinks it is at the mouth of a dimensional portal--a gateway, if you will--through which extraterrestrial spaceships travel to and from Earth. At least, that's how he explains the numerous nighttime sightings of morphing and speeding lights that respond positively to people who yell "Light up!" or "Go brighter!" With video footage, he showed time and again how the lights grew brilliantly bright when asked. "We don't watch TV up there, we watch UFOs," said Gilliland. He added that the ranch has a no-drug policy. The place has drawn physicists, retired military personnel and others who wait outside at night and gaze at the stars, awaiting the lights. The light displays have led to revelations from some of these people--revelations about government work with alien technologies. Now, Gilliland said, he's forged relationships with former U.S. scientists and military personnel who want to work with him to unveil advanced technologies that have been hidden from the world for 50 years. He's already begun construction of a "Galactic University" for scientists and lay people. "Some of these things are going to be earth-changing," Gilliland said. "They're going to change our future." These include pollution-free energy generators that cost little to nothing to operate. Anti-gravity is "old stuff," Gilliland said. "I want to assure you, we have counter-gravity--that's on the Earth right now." Then there are devices that increase oxygen levels in water by 2,000 percent, giving water drinkers more energy and better health. All these things may be needed, he added, if humanity keeps screwing up its environment. He noted that the phenomenon known as "chem trails"--essentially, these are contrails in the sky that don't dissipate over time; instead they grow into clouds-- is a man-made attempt to save the Earth from global warming gone awry. "They're trying to create a blanket to block out the sun, but instead, it's only heating the Earth," said Gilliland, who is not a scientist but said he's getting his information from both ETs and others scientists. In addition, because some of the chemicals being sprayed include aluminum, Gilliland said the ETs believe more cases of Alzheimer's disease, which has been linked to high levels of aluminum in the blood, will result. "We have the keys to utopia," he concluded, adding that extraterrestrials want us to have the devices, but they won't interfere. "They're not going to trespass on free will. I do know that they aren't going to allow a nuclear exchange, however. That, they've made very clear." Again, the desire to believe is strong. Who wouldn't want free energy, roadless vistas and a disease-free humanity? But after the presentation, I got into a little spat with some septuagenarians, after noting that it'd be nice to have some physical proof to go with the presentations. "These people have been through a lot of hell!" one woman scolded me. "We're not here to judge." And Gilliland admits that the devices aren't his passion. He's more concerned with spirituality and how these technological miracles would help humanity attain a higher spirituality. He's not the only one: Our extraterrestrial overseers are also waiting. "They're waiting for us to wake up and be worth saving." After his presentation, I asked Gilliland for a spot of the high-octane water. He didn't have it right away, but he gave me an "oxygen pill," which he warned me not to take before going to bed. "You'll be bouncing off the walls." He said the pill had been developed at Zenith for doctors and others who work long hours--it's supposed to keep them awake and calm. So I waited till morning and chewed the pill. Sugary. Then I went down to his booth and told the guy there that James said I could have a glass of the high-02 water. I drank 8 ounces. Didn't taste all that good, nothing like pure well water; more like processed stuff fresh from Lake Mead to the faucet. Then I waited. And nothing. No difference. With a double dose of oxygen--pills and water form--I felt the same level of alertness as always, the same level of fatigue. . . . ALIENS AMONG US They say men in black are real. That a shadow government--power- hungry bureaucrats and corporate entities run amuk--operates in the United States without oversight of the president, the Congress or the courts. Why? One reason might be because Earth is being visited by extraterrestrials--perhaps dozens of species, some tens of millions of years more evolved than we--on a regular basis. And the fact that we have absolutely no control over that fact, said folks down here, frightens the government. But even though "maybe three or four" species of aliens visiting us are up to no good, the majority are benevolent, said Gilliland, who has made psychic contact with ETs. The ones that are not benevolent, he notes, are responsible for abducting people--he estimated that one in 50 people worldwide has been abducted, though very few people have memories of it. The others? Well, there are the Andromedans. And the Pleiadians, who come from a planet 420 light years away and who look just like humans because they are our genetic ancestors. There are reptilian aliens, noted Dr. John Mack, a Harvard Medical School professor of psychiatry who has spent years studying abductions. One man showed photos of them with horns "materializing" through his wall. Then there are the archetypal "grays" or "blues," those skinny, wispy aliens with the big black eyes, no chins and tiny slits for mouths. This is the kind Dr. Jonathan Reed said he met in October 1996. While walking his dog, Suzy, in the woods of Washington state, Reed claims that he attacked the alien after it killed his dog, apparently in self-dense. Reed, who bashed the alien's head with a branch, raced home and got a video camera. Then he returned, wrapped up the injured creature--along with its time-shifting bracelet--and went home. Reed's ensuing nightmare is encapsulated in his book, "Link." In it, he claims that the Men in Black came to his house and demanded information about his contact. When he didn't comply, he learned that his job at the University of Washington had been eliminated--there were no records of him and his colleagues were scared into denying he ever worked there. Then his bank account with some $80,000 was wiped clean. And his house was ransacked. Reed claims that people who eventually tried to help him were threatened, and two were killed. The story's controversial among those who believe because it almost seems too good to be true. Reed has photos of the alien's ship; he has photos and video of the alien--with its eyes blinking--and he has photos of the alien's bracelet, now called The Link. Reed returned to Laughlin to build a case against his detractors. He brought video of colleagues and bank officers-- their faces blurred out--who said they'd been threatened into denying Reed's existence. "We were told that we didn't know him," said the bank's loan officer. "No ifs, ands or buts." He also brought email evidence that he had, at one time in 1996, been a member of the University of Washington faculty. And he brought audiotape of his conversations with the alien he attacked. It survived, he said, and he has been in contact with it over the last few years. The clicks and chirps and beeps on the tape-recording were reminiscent of the sounds made by dolphins. A test done on blood samples left by the creature, he said, revealed it to be largely human, but also with some reptilian DNA. Reed claims that he is now being aided by something called The Alliance, a group that runs counter to the U.S. government's Men in Black. The Alliance, he said, is confiscating extraterrestrial artifacts and waiting for the perfect time to release them to the public. Reed tried The Link three times, he said, at least once in the presence of paranormal investigator Dan McEvoy, who's been investigating the Reed case. McEvoy told the faithful in Laughlin that when Reed put it on, "he started to vibrate ... all of a sudden, he was gone." He disappeared for a few moments, then reappeared. "The bracelet has the ability to teleport an individual," McEvoy said. "And it allows for contact with beings of light." Reed said The Link takes him into a bright egg-shaped space with loving beings of light. "It was transcendent," he said. And everyone in the audience waited, hoping that Reed had either brought The Link with him or had at least videotaped himself disappearing. He hadn't. I asked Dan Iaria, a researcher who's spent two years looking into Reed's case, why not? Why not put this thing to rest and make a compelling case by videotaping it? "You're right, that would be compelling," said Iaria. He then made a series of statements, smiling, not exactly admitting he made a videotape, but hinting that one exists. When we get to see it, he couldn't say. . . . As I had the previous year, I raced home from Laughlin thinking about Nevada Power and how great it'd be to put them out of business with these energy machines. I thought about soaring over Spaghetti Bowl traffic in my anti-gravitational Chevy and I fumed at a shadow government and oil companies keeping us in the dark so they can maintain their fragile hold on power. When I got home, I piled the books by my bed and read Gilliland's book, Reed's book and a book about the Pleiadian's visit to a one-armed farmer in Switzerland. Then life took over. Las Vegas traffic remained hellacious, the power bill sat on the kitchen counter and some form of "shadow government," working post-9/11, was still at work in Washington, according to Dubya. And in the hectic struggle to make sense of things any rational person might call nonsensical, I came to my senses. There's a chance these people are right, that things like that charred alien baby are real (OK, maybe not the baby) and that we really are relatives of super-evolved civilizations from outer space. But until I put that magic bracelet on, or an alien abducts me, I don't have the time to wonder about it. Believers here would say that's just what the government wants, and I'm playing into their hands. Or maybe I'm just playing that hand I've been dealt. ** Related stories: . Alien Nation: Louis Farrakhan All contents =A9 1998 - 2002 Radiant City Publications, LLC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: A Thought Occurs - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:55:39 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Hamilton >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 >>Subject: A Thought Occurs <snip> >Bobbie, >Speaking as someone who spent many years investigating >abductions, working with the 'victims', attending national and >international conferences on the subject, I can give you a very >simple answer. The abduction phenomenon is the slipperiest and >most elusive aspect of the entire UFO subject. Incidentally, it >is covered quite thoroughly in my book. It happens almost >invisibly, seldom with outside witnesses (some exceptions, of >course), and virtually never leaves behind strong and convincing >evidence. You can spend myriad hours and bushels of money >without establishing much of anything. >Meanwhile, there is a wealth of strongly established physical >evidence of all kinds in regard to UFO sightings. In order for >abductions to be taken seriously, the strong patterns of UFO >evidence need to be disseminated and understood, and the >sequence of events which demonstrates that abductions did not >suddenly appear out of any meaningful context. Starting with >abductions is sort of like beginning your math studies with >advanced calculus instead of arithmetic. Excuse me, Richard, for stepping in here, but you evoked a comment from me. I started my abduction investigations in 1976 and stuck to a few good cases (good in that they were information rich and had some modicum of evidence) and started to back off involvement about 1996. Since my wife is one of these cases, I have had a chance to evaluate events with her from personal involvement. I have come to believe that not all her reported events are physical though there are physical body marks. I have also come to believe that not all of these are UFO-related. So, why does she have these experiences? Why does some individual have the experiences and another does not? I have imagined various hypotheses, but nothing that I could give enough definition to that would allow for a test of the hypothesis. I feel there is something in the bio-physical-chemical makeup of these individuals that may be a factor, but cannot prove it. It may be this X factor that makes these individuals sensitive to these experiences. It is as if they were antennas that pick up wavelengths that the average human cannot detect, but only when a signal is present. For instance, like other abductees I know, my wife reports paranormal experiences. The other day she was working in the garage when she immediately felt a presence, looked up, and saw an old man standing within feet of her. He was just there and gone! She has reported earlier similar incidents of apparitions including looking up and seeing a 4-foot tall gray. I believe the kind of research program needed to study just this phenomena would be extremely expensive just in trying to locate the invisible agency producing it. So, as it is with you, I have mostly gone back to a study of UFO sightings and encounters. -Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:20:56 +0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:58:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Lehmberg >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:22:03 -0500 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:43:08 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:20:42 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof <snip> >In short: The UFO Evidence II is not just another UFO book. >Everyone who's on this List, or anybody anywhere who presumes to >speak knowledgeably about the UFO phenomenon, would be well >advised to have a copy at hand. . >Jerry Clark I'm convinced. Perhaps Mr. Hall has an autographed copy he can sell me personally? Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: New Triangle Photo Case - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:24:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:05:45 -0400 Subject: Re: New Triangle Photo Case - Maccabee >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:20:27 -0700 >Subject: Re: New Triangle Photo Case> >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:10:56 -0400 >>Subject: New Triangle Photo Case >>Dear Listers: >>There have been recent discourses on the present status or 'fate' >>of ufology, like, why are people still discussing old cases, and >>aren't there any new ones worth haggling over, etc. >>Well, time marches on. >>Pelican guano may be covering old cases, but not yet the new >>ones. So, before the excrement hits the rotating blades, check >>out the newest night time photo of a triangle... and a >>"car".... that passed through the sky of Lawton, OK. They say >>Oklahoma is OK... and so, it appears, is this sighting.> >>What do you think? (You are, therefore you think.... I >>think....) >Did you intend to provide a clickable URL for the photo? >I'd like to see it. Ooops. My mistake. Forgot to include: http://brumac.8k.com Scroll down the first page a little bit to the first case analysis.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Pascagoula Abduction Research Update From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:09:55 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:21:59 -0400 Subject: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update Greetings to the Research Community: Wendy Connors and Bill Jones (Ohio MUFON) are very pleased to announce the recovery and preservation of the original taped interview of Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker, Jr. by the Pascagoula, MS Sheriff's Department. Recorded within a couple of hours following their abduction, this 30 minute recording was made without Mr. Hickson or Mr. Parker's knowledge and had not been known to exist to the general crypto-aeronautic community until now. During the early 1960s and through the 1970s, researchers would record radio newscasts, etc. on reel to reel tape recorders and share these and taped letters among themselves. Richard T. Lee was one of these early researchers who was interested in the metaphysical, including the crypto-aeronautic phenomena. It is from his collection that this tape (much deteriorated) has been recovered, preserved and prevented from being lost to future generations of researchers and crypto-aeronautical historians. This recording is extremely valuable both to abduction researchers and for its historical aspects. The sound quality is rather substandard, as normally found with law enforcement recordings from the period, but is listenable. The recording has been digitally preserved and transferred to CD format. The interview lasts approximately 30 minutes with Hickson and Parker promising to return the following day to the Sheriff's Department to give a formal statement. Perhaps the most crucial importance of the recording lies in the fact that Hickson and Parker relate the experience within a few hours of the abduction and the listener can hear their confusion, fear and astonishment (not just to the Sheriff's deputies, but among themselves when they remain alone in the room) at what they had just experienced. Copies of this CD will be made available to researchers in the near future and instructions on how to obtain a copy of the CD will be posted on the various Lists in due course. Thank you, Wendy Connors and Bill Jones
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Davey From: Virginia Davey <vmdavey@idirect.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:28:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:32:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Davey >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:06:20 -0700 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >By all means, ask for it at the library if the price is too >high. If they don't have it, put in a formal request that they >get it in. Libraries regularly purchase books at these prices >and much higher, but _only_ if requested! I'd like to see it in >every library in America. >Have the following info handy when you visit the library: >The UFO Evidence (Volume II .. A Thirty Year Report) >by Richard H. Hall; Publ: Scarecrow Press Inc., >Lanham, MD and London, UK 2000 / 2001. >ISBN 0-8108-3881-8 As a librarian, I second Larry's and Bobbie's suggestion. Many libraries welcome and, indeed, encourage recommendations for purchase. And from the quality of titles that I've seen in this area, Dick's book is desperately needed. And do include that ISBN. It helps enormously when ordering from the publisher. Best Regards Virginia Davey Toronto
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Salvaille From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:36:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:05:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Salvaille >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:22:03 -0500 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:43:08 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:20:42 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof <snip> >>Dick is right. His book is a fabulous summary of what we >>currently know. <snip> >Let me second what Greg says with a quote from my review of >Dick's book in the new (Winter 2001-02) issue of IUR (CUFOS, >2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659): <snip> >In short: The UFO Evidence II is not just another UFO book. >Everyone who's on this List, or anybody anywhere who presumes to >speak knowledgeably about the UFO phenomenon, would be well >advised to have a copy at hand. . <snip> Hello people, Talking about beating a dead horse and feeding it a straw man... Dick Hall's research has never been in question. Dick Hall's failure to sell his book only reflects the failure of ufology to go mainstream. I am still dismayed at the lack of reaction of the milieu when this problem is mentioned. I understand this is a hell of a hot potato as the VIPs of ufology have a fair share of responsibility for this failure. Wendy Connors invoked the fact that many researchers are mavericks. This may be an alibi, but it is no excuse. Instead of congratulating Dick Hall for his great research, I suggest you all get together and come up with some protocol to save ufology from itself. If you can't do that, at least you could herald a movement to reach this goal. Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: A Thought Occurs - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:33:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:08:12 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Sandow >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 >Subject: A Thought Occurs >A thought occurs to me regarding investigation of the abduction >phenomenon and UFOs in general. It would seem to me that if one >can produce evidence of the physical reality of abduction by >alien beings, then one would, by default, substantiate the ETH >as well as resolve a lot of questions regarding UFOs in general. >Considering the much-discussed frustration regarding lack of >funding for numerous aspects of UFO-related research, I have to >wonder why those who consider themselves professional >investigators/researchers aren't concentrating on the mystery of >the abduction phenomenon exclusively. Solve that mystery, and >you solve a whole bunch of other ones by default. Not necessarily. Suppose abductions turn out not to be alien - a psychological phenomenon, whatever. That doesn't prove anything about UFOs. They could still be signs of an alien visit; the aliens just wouldn't be abducting us. For what it's worth, David Pritchard, a physicist at MIT, had much the same idea about abductions. He had doubts about SETI -- why look for alien radio signals, he asked (or at least he said this to me once), when the aliens might be right here on earth. This was a credentialed physicist at MIT. He also thought, if I remember correctly, that abduction research could be more productive than standard UFO research. His contribution, apart from arranging a very productive conference in collaboration with John Mack, was to investigate an implant case. The supposed implant (in somebody's penis) turned out to be a familiar earthly substance. After that, Pritchard got out of UFO work, as far as I know. In part that's because he found it hard to be an MIT physicist engaged in abduction work. UFO buffs would call the MIT physics department, looking for him, which, he told me, annoyed the department chair. Pritchard worried, too, that he might get notorious for UFO work, and lose funding for his mainstream research. And beyond all that, the abduction research didn't seem to be getting anywhere. One problem with all this is deciding what kind of research to do, and then funding it. There's one promising project being done, which should be left to do its work in privacy. But proving or disproving the reality of abductions is a pretty tall order for a cottage industry like ufology. Investigating sightings, studying the history of government involvement, or catalogueing reports (and maybe studying them for signs of consistency, like consistent reports of UFO luminoisty) - these things aren't quite as cosmic, but are more manageable. If ufology were a large, going concern - a government department, or a major corporation - it'd be easier to make recommendations, and say "You're putting all your money into sighting research. You ought to put it into abductions." There would be a central decision-making body; it would have resources it could shift to something new. But since ufology isn't organized, and doesn't have resources, it's far easier to make recommendations like this than to get them acted on. Not that this was a bad suggestion. I'm not being critical. Just realistic. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: HBCC UFO: Palouse, Washington, Pictures - McCoy From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:57:03 -0700??? Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:16:28 -0400 Subject: Re: HBCC UFO: Palouse, Washington, Pictures - McCoy >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:28:12 -0700 >Subject: HBCC UFO: Palouse, Washington, Pictures >Hi List >I posted this report a little while ago, if you follow the URL >below the full report, plus pictures are on my website. I had a >melt down with my main page where all the links go to the >different reports, cases, etc.. but please bare with me, I am >trying to get it back up and running. >Your input is welcome. >Take care >Brian >HBCC UFO >----- >Hello Brian >I have been following with interest the reports which you have >been discussing on UFO UpDates regarding the sightings in >British Columbia. >I have also read similar reports on the National UFO Reporting >Center in Seattle. >I have decided to write to you after reading your March 27 >report and the mention of aircraft patrolling the area. >You may be interested in learning that I have also been >observing a variety of bright nocturnal lights on a regular >basis since February 2, 2002 and have also observed aircraft >patrolling the skies in our area since February 4. >There appear to be a number of similarities between what is >occurring in British Columbia, and what I have been observing in >Spokane. >For full report and photos: >http://www.geocities.com/ufologia_canadiana/Palouse.html Hello, all. I am very familiar with the area around Spokane Wa. having lived, flown, and fought fires in that area (not all at once of course,) for some forty-odd years. The witness decribes the place where he lives as: "fifteen miles southwest of Spokane," and "at the edge of the Palouse,". This would be in the area near two major airports:Spokane International and some 10 or so miles to the west, Fairchild Airforce Base, once a SAC base, now a TAC refueling Base. There is a lot of aerial activity there. I know, I participated in some of it over the 26 or so years I was in aviation. There are several Major Airlines that serve Spokane, along with Spokane being an air freight hub. There are several Naviad (Beacons as in VOR, or, intersections of airways,) Outer Marker (for Insturment landing systems) that can be used as aids for holding patterns (even in good weather). Most aircraft, when operating at night, when in the vicinity of Airports, use landing lights so others may not ah, run into, collide, or otherwise ruin your evening. Oh, and most of the naviads are at or near the area in question. While I am not saying that there any thing wrong here, one would think that with all that spectacular activity,someone would see it beside the witness. GT McCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - From: Thiago L. Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:32:42 -0300 (BRT) Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:26:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:09:55 -0600 >Subject: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update >Greetings to the Research Community: >Wendy Connors and Bill Jones (Ohio MUFON) are very pleased to >announce the recovery and preservation of the original taped >interview of Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker, Jr. by the >Pascagoula, MS Sheriff's Department. Recorded within a couple of >hours following their abduction, this 30 minute recording was >made without Mr. Hickson or Mr. Parker's knowledge and had not >been known to exist to the general crypto-aeronautic community >until now. <snip> Well, now that we are talking about the Pascagoula Abduction, I would like to know your opinion about that case. I've read a lot about it and in my opinion there is much more to understand. The aspects are very controversial and some other aspects to me seen like tall stories. What you think? Regards, Thiago Luiz Ticchetti Compre o livro "Quedas de UFOs". Toda a arrecada=E7=E3o ser=E1 doada a uma institui=E7=E3o para crian=E7as com AIDS. Mais informa=E7=F5es pelo e- mail: ebe-et@ebe-et.com.br
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:02:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:38:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:30:38 +0600 >Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >Alfred's Odd Ode #361 <snip> Hello Alfred, Warning: Lengthy post ahead. Proceed at your own risk. :) You wrote: >At the risk of being unintelligible to a much too easily baffled >Richard Hall or inordinately inconclusive to a too-quick-to- >dismiss Dave Furlotte (SDI Saturday night...), You choose to insult an intelligent man by declaring that he is "too easily baffled" yet you don't grant the possibility that some of the contributions to this List _are_ unintelligible and at times downright incoherent. I have stated my own observations about this in the past. Just to give one example of how wrong your own 'take' on this may be - I'm certain that a job like being responsible for the administration of an organization whose sole purpose is the dispensation of available research monies, is not a position that is bestowed on anyone who demonstrates that they are, "too easily baffled." I'm fairly certain that the people looking to fill such a position would look for the sharpest, most intelligent and trustworthy person of unimpeachable character that they could find to fill the bill. Does any of that 'ring a bell' with you? You know, as in FUFOR and Ricahrd Hall? I'd sooner take Dick's word that someone on this List made an incomprehensible remark, than insult him by making cutesy innuendo's about the sharpness of his mind. This has been bothering me. Some 'Internet hobbyists' who have not made _any_ contributions to the field and who have no credentials themselves, (egotistically) find it easy to insult and criticize intelligent, experienced professionals who have established impeccable credentials and track records. The remarks come off as petty and blatantly disrespectful in spite of some feeble attempts to disguise it. I don't know, maybe I'm just 'old fashioned' but I treat people who have _earned_ it, with the respect that is due them. There are members of this List who should feel deeply ashamed about the treatment they have doled out to someone like Dick Hall. I haven't heard any apologies either. Dick is a tremendous resource and cache of history and information for everyone on this List. Instead of appreciating having someone as experienced as he is around and accessible on this List, 'some' choose to insult and to 'dis' him. I say later for _them!_ As for Dave Furlotte's 'My Take On It' piece on Saturday's broadcast of SDI: He was right on. People have a right to demand some kind of basic accountability when being presented with mind-bending reports from 'unknown' individuals. They have a right (and I consider it a 'responsibility') to question something before blindly accepting it. It's called being thoughtful and critical in terms of one's thinking. On the same program I made the remark that, "The Internet is like a public phone booth, anyone can drop a coin into the slot and say anything they wish to." It is important for people to be able to distinguish between these unknown random callers and individuals whose lives have been subjected to investigation and close scrutiny. And there _is_ a difference. An important one. It is the difference between the credibility that is to be granted to a 'self-proclaimed' unknown individual and one whose story and character have been carefully vetted by an experienced investigator. Otherwise, why even bother going to an investigator? Anybody with a computer and an e-mail account can just anything they want to, any time they want to and expect to be given credence by the listener. It just doesn't work that way in the real world. As "elitist" as it may sound to some, I have a problem with some people assuming an equal footing for their 'uninvestigated reports' with anyone who has been put through the wringer of a formal investigation process. In my own case I had to pay some at times very personal dues while being subjected to examination. I paid out of pocket for a complete psychological work-up. I had to ask of my friends and family members if it was okay for someone to call and ask them questions about me. I had to go back to places that are filled with bad memories and dread for me because I had to show an investigator 'where' and 'what' exactly happened to me. I had to be _accountable_ and be willing to substantiate (as best I could) what I was reporting. You know, as in a real, full- fledged' investigation. I didn't come out of the woodwork and demand to be granted the attention and credulity that someone who has passed rigorous examination deserves. Check it out. I didn't ask to go public. It was asked of me. I didn't suddenly appear on this e-mail List and start telling abduction stories, I was invited because Budd had presented my case for public consideration. When I did go public, I had Budd standing at my side ready to vouch for my basic honesty, integrity and character as an individual. To testify on my behalf that he had looked into my case and me as an individual, and that he was satisfied (as a result of his own investigations) that I was a credible person making an honest report about what has been happening to me and my family. Having my case presented by Budd doesn't make my report any more true or more valid than anybody else's. But, it does go a long way toward gaining some credibility for it, with intellectually honest people like Dave Furlotte for instance. With people who ask simple straight forward questions about what they are being told. No, it doesn't prove anything... but it does help. There is a difference between that, and folks who suddenly pop up out of nowhere on an e-mail List demanding that their (uninvestigated) reports be given equal credibility. Cry baby- shoes all you like, it ain't going to happen. And rightfully so. Any intellectually honest and thoughtful person hearing such reports has every right to ask, "Gee has anybody _competent_ looked into this person or their claims?" If so, "Who is this person? What were the results of the investigation into this person's character?" All honest questions deserving of answers. That's all (basically) that Dave Furlotte was saying. He was making _honest_ inquiries and demanding a little accountability on behalf of those filing such reports. Commendable really and not 'unreasonable' in any way, shape, or form. If I may, I'd like to suggest to anyone who wishes to be taken seriously by the public and researchers, get themselves and their cases thoroughly examined and investigated by somebody _competent_ and experienced in the field. There aren't many of them, but there are a few. _Then_ when the researcher presents them and their case to the public for consideration/scrutiny, they will be able to enjoy the public backing and support (on their behalf) of the investigator*, (who publicly throw their own reputation behind them as the 'presenter' of the case) and the individual may also enjoy what little 'credibility' the results of having passed an investigation may provide. Even then, let them know that it takes _years_ to gain the trust and respect of your peers. Nothing is granted or guaranteed up front. It _all_ has to be earned. No shortcuts, no jumping ahead in line. Respectfully, John Velez, *abductee *Case checked out independently by investigators: Budd Hopkins and Peter Brookesmith. (Budd's investigation was conducted over a period of five years being the more detailed/in-depth of the two. Because of a hectic travel schedule Peter was only able to spend three days with me/looking into my case.) Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:55:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:42:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Felder >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:09:55 -0600 >Subject: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update >Greetings to the Research Community: >Wendy Connors and Bill Jones (Ohio MUFON) are very pleased to >announce the recovery and preservation of the original taped >interview of Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker, Jr. by the >Pascagoula, MS Sheriff's Department. Recorded within a couple of >hours following their abduction, this 30 minute recording was >made without Mr. Hickson or Mr. Parker's knowledge and had not >been known to exist to the general crypto-aeronautic community >until now. <snip> Hi Wendy. A couple of questions regarding this: 1 - Do Hickson and Parker know that this tape is being made public? 2 - If so, what was their reaction when they learned of its impending release? Thanks Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:10:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:44:17 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder >From: John Vlez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:53:10 -0400 >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 <snip> >Much to the shame of modern science and scientists, such a >multi-disciplinary study by an independent and impartial group >of experts has never been performed. Nor are there any plans for >such a study in the works. <snip> Actually, your information is not entirely correct. There is a study currently underway. Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:13:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:45:52 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:51:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 >>Subject: A Thought Occurs <snip> >PS- Before anyone asks, no information on the AMP investigation >is available until the project is completed and the data fully >examined. Hi Steven. Thank you for the "heads up" on this AMP project. Do you know of any projected completion date? Thanks Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:18:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:31:25 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:26:02 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 >>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 >>>Subject: A Thought Occurs <snip> >I believe the kind of research program needed to study just this >phenomena would be extremely expensive just in trying to locate >the invisible agency producing it. >So, as it is with you, I have mostly gone back to a study of UFO >sightings and encounters. Hi Bill. Let me make sure I'm reading you correctly here. Are you saying that you backed off the subject of abduction because of financial concerns regarding the investigation of same, and not because of a lack of evidence to support the claims of abductees? Thank you for clearing up this point. Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:30:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:52:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof - Felder >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:22:03 -0500 >Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:43:08 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:20:42 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: Progress Or Lack Thereof <snip> >In short: The UFO Evidence II is not just another UFO book. >Everyone who's on this List, or anybody anywhere who presumes to >speak knowledgeably about the UFO phenomenon, would be well >advised to have a copy at hand. Hi Jerry. I don't think anyone is categorizing Richard's work as "just another UFO book". I don't think there can be any doubt that Volume II is every bit, if not better, than Volume I. But the fact remains that the cost is prohibitive to some. That is a fact of life that isn't going to change overnight. Libraries are probably the best bet for those who can't budget for growth of their personal library at this point in time. I have asked at my local library and my university library. I encourage everyone else to do the same. It may not get the book ordered, but it certainly can't hurt. Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Food For Thought - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:15:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:55:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Food For Thought - Velez >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:39:25 +0000 >Subject: Food For Thought Hello Eleanor, You wrote: >Many thanks to John Velez for saving the two made-public implant >analyses by NIDS so the public can still see them. In all fairness to NIDS the reports are almost five years old. I'm sure that in the name of keeping fresh reports and information available online they have to take down old info from time to time. I got permission years ago from Roger Lier to post that stuff on the old Intruders Foundation website. When the site became IF-AIC and then morphed into AIC, the reports just remained as a part of the presentation on the subject. I'm just glad that some folks are actually taking the time to read all that stuff. That's why I posted it all to begin with. :) It doesn't take away one iota from the fact that NIDS has gathered and purchased large amounts of raw data/information that never again sees the light of day. But that's a whole other story. I have always considered NIDS a Black hole for UFO and abduction information. Their "output" is nowhere near proportionate to their "intake" of info. >The fact that the other 16 remain under wraps, and the two made >public appear to be metal fragments rather than manufactured >technology triggers a thought. If I were running the UFO cover >up, I'd find it difficult to come up with a _better_ cover up >tactic than to feed NIDS two subjects "implanted" with ordinary >metal fragments. As true as that "may be" it still only speculation and should be couched in those terms. That way there won't be any mistaking speculative comments for statements of fact. It's ok to speculate as long as you're responsible about it and _clear_ to all readers that that is what you are doing. Otherwise some nasty rumors can get started that way. >I'd guess in all of the 300 million U.S. citizens, a couple >could be found who were willing to be implanted with metal >fragments and to then volunteer to NIDS for removal and >analysis. Some money, and a maybe a threat or two against family >members can work wonders. Again, although it 'may well be true' this is more speculation. >The news that some implants are mere metal fragments would be >very handy in efforts to discredit _all_ implantees, especially >if such a "distinguished organization" as NIDS keeps the others >under wraps. Are they "under wraps?" Have you asked NIDS for the information? If so, what was their response? I would imagine such a request would find its way to the desk of Colm Kellaher for disposition. Have you made a request to him, and has he responded? You have to be real careful about accusing people of intentional suppression of information. At least "careful" in the terms you use to couch the indictment. (See above!) ;) >If I were the cover up boss, that gambit would appeal to me. They don't really have to do anything Eleanor. Nobody takes us seriously anyway. The "cover-up bosses" probably spend more time with one hand shoved down the front of their trousers (ala Al Bundy) and a Rolling Rock beer in the other than they do scheming up ways to make ufology look any sillier than it does all by itself. :) Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: A Thought Occurs - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:39:05 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:59:17 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Randle >From: John Vlez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:53:10 -0400 >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 <snip> >>Speaking as someone who spent many years investigating >>abductions, working with the 'victims', attending national and >>international conferences on the subject, I can give you a very >>simple answer. The abduction phenomenon is the slipperiest and >>most elusive aspect of the entire UFO subject. Incidentally, it >>is covered quite thoroughly in my book. It happens almost >>invisibly, seldom with outside witnesses (some exceptions, of >>course), and virtually never leaves behind strong and convincing >>evidence. You can spend myriad hours and bushels of money >>without establishing much of anything. >Hi Dick, >Been saying this every chance I get since 1995 - and others have >said it before me..... >A multi-disciplinary study conducted by an independent and >_impartial_ institution or university, using thorough and >rigorous empirical scientific methods would go a long way toward >securing reliable data and maybe even a few answers to the many >questions posed by reports of UFO abduction. Such a study may >even establish a bit of sorely needed academic credibility for >the field of abduction research. >Much to the shame of modern science and scientists, such a >multi-disciplinary study by an independent and impartial group >of experts has never been performed. Nor are there any plans for >such a study in the works. I have suggested in the past that we >include independent, _unbiased_ credentialed professionals >working with carefully screened and selected subjects; whose >cases have been investigated by known, and respected researchers >in the field; who have established through careful investigation >that the subject is a credible person of good character. Until >that happens, knitting or crocheting may be good hobbies to take >up while we all wait for _reliable_ data/answers.>> Good Afternoon John, List, All - But I thought just such a multi-disciplinary study was underway and had been talked about on this list. As I understand it, there are no results yet, but the study is on going. And, I thought that Dr. Richard Neal attempted to make a good, solid study of reports of the missing fetus cases. While it wasn't multi- disciplinary, Dr. Neal, as a licensed doctor, certainly had the credentials. And, I might point out when we (and by we I mean Russ Estes, Bill Cone and I) attempted to gain the aid of various researchers to determine how many abductees reported an initial episode that mirrored sleep paralysis (which is not to say that these events were sleep paralysis, but mirrored the symptoms of sleep paralysis) we weren't even given the courtesy of a reply. I might point out that such a study might help answer some questions, though not necessarily all the questions. And, I might point out that we are still waiting for the famous "dust bunny" research, which struck me as a good idea because it would supply some of the physical evidence that so many of us, me included, desire. I guess, what I'm trying to say is that some research is being conducted, has been announced on this list, and yet, seems to have passed through our filters without creating much of a ripple. If we aren't aware of it, then I am not surprised that main stream science has ignored us. Which is a way of saying that we really need to get our act together. KRandle
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:38:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:34:16 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:33:27 -0400 >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 >>Subject: A Thought Occurs <snip> >Not necessarily. Suppose abductions turn out not to be alien - a >psychological phenomenon, whatever. That doesn't prove anything >about UFOs. They could still be signs of an alien visit; the >aliens just wouldn't be abducting us. Hi Greg. If abductions turned out to be psychological phenomenon, then they could be eliminated as a part of ufology. Trim the fat, so to speak, by process of elimination and get to the meat of the issue - the UFO. If abductions were proven to be non-alien, then it would say a lot about UFOs: it would say that there is no need to continue to tie the topic of abduction with the study of UFOs. If, however, abduction turned out to be, as you suggest, "signs" of an alien visit, then you've still answered a lot of questions, including whether or not people are being abducted, whether there is intelligent life out there, etc. <snip> >After that, Pritchard got out of UFO work, as far as I know. In >part that's because he found it hard to be an MIT physicist >engaged in abduction work. UFO buffs would call the MIT physics >department, looking for him, which, he told me, annoyed the >department chair. Pritchard worried, too, that he might get >notorious for UFO work, and lose funding for his mainstream >research. And beyond all that, the abduction research didn't >seem to be getting anywhere. Translation: UFO studies and related fields of investigation need to go mainstream. If it were "socially" and "academically" acceptable to be engaged in UFO studies and related investigation, there would be no stigma associated with it and no need for an MIT physicist to worry about whether he gained notoriety in the UFO field. Doing so would not mean a potential loss of funding. >One problem with all this is deciding what kind of research to >do, and then funding it. There's one promising project being >done, which should be left to do its work in privacy. But >proving or disproving the reality of abductions is a pretty tall >order for a cottage industry like ufology. Investigating >sightings, studying the history of government involvement, or >catalogueing reports (and maybe studying them for signs of >consistency, like consistent reports of UFO luminoisty) - these >things aren't quite as cosmic, but are more manageable. If all of the money spent by all of the career researchers and "crypto-whatevers" were pooled together and efforts concentrated on making a concerted effort at investigation/research, ufology might not be such a cottage industry. <snip> >But since ufology isn't organized, and doesn't have resources, >it's far easier to make recommendations like this than to get >them acted on. Not that this was a bad suggestion. I'm not being >critical. Just realistic. I didn't consider your remarks critical; on the contrary, I found your post most informative. Thanks for the input :) Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder --->backwoods of Mississippi --->USA
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality From: Disclosure Project <campaign@disclosureproject.org> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:48:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:40:13 -0400 Subject: Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality http://www.disclosureproject.org Several military and intelligence witnesses who were Strategic Air Command ...SAC) and other nuclear specialists have come forward with testimony proving that UFOs are real and appear to be concerned about our nuclear weapons. The Disclosure Project ...www.DisclosureProject.org) has obtained the first-hand testimony of several such insiders whose documents and corroborating testimony proves that UFOs have monitored sensitive nuclear facilities since at least the 1950s. While the UFOs were not hostile, it was made clear that they were very concerned about human weapons of mass destruction. On one occasion, UFOs over a SAC Nuclear launch area took more than a dozen intercontinental ballistic missiles ...ICBMs) offline. Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson: US Air Force ...ret.): "I was the top- secret control officer at Malmstom AFB for the 20th Air Division. I happened to see a message that came through my communications center. It said...that 'A UFO was seen near missile silos'...and it was hovering. It said that the crew going on duty and the crew coming off duty all saw the UFO just hovering in mid-air. It was a metallic circular object and from what I understand, the missiles were all shut down. What I mean by 'missiles going down' is that they went dead. And something turned those missiles off, so they couldn't be put back in a mode for launching." Captain Robert Salas: USAF SAC Missile Launch Officer [1964- 1971]: "The UFO incident happened on the morning of March 16, 1967... on duty at Oscar Flight as part of the 490th strategic missile squad and there are five launch control facilities assigned to that particular squadron... and I received a call from my topside security guard...and he said that he and some of the guards had been observing some strange lights flying around the site around the launch control facility. I said, you mean UFO? He said, well, he didn't know what they were but they were lights and were flying around. They were not airplanes; They were not helicopters. They weren't making any noise... [A little later] our missiles started shutting down one by one. By shutting down, I mean they went into a "no-go" condition meaning they could not be launched. These weapons were Minuteman One missiles and were of course nuclear-tipped warhead missiles...this incident was of extreme concern to SAC headquarters because they couldn't explain it." Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/Atomic Energy Commission ...ret.): "After retiring from the Air Force I joined the Boeing company and was responsible for accounting for all of the nuclear fleet of Minuteman missiles. In this incident they actually photographed the UFO following the missile as it climbed into space and, shining a beam on it, neutralized the missile. I also learned of a number of incidents which happened, a couple of nuclear weapons sent into space were destroyed by the extraterrestrials. Our government sent a nuclear weapon for explosion on the moon's surface...[And] the ETs destroyed the weapon as it went toward the moon. [Apparently] the idea of any explosion in space by any Earth government was not acceptable to the extraterrestrials, and that has been demonstrated over and over." Professor Robert Jacobs: Lt. USAF 1369th Photo Squadron: "...we were testing ballistic missiles that were to deliver nuclear weapons on target...my duty [was] to supervise the instrumentation photography of every missile that went down in that western test range...and into the frame came something else. It flew into the frame and shot a beam of light at the warhead. Now, remember, all this stuff was flying at several thousand miles an hour, so this thing fires a beam of light at the warhead, hits it, .... The warhead tumbles out of space. The object, the points of light that we saw, the warhead and so forth, were traveling through subspace about sixty miles straight up, and they were going somewhere in the neighborhood of eleven to fourteen thousand miles an hour, when this thing caught up to them, flew in, flew around them, and flew back out." The Disclosure Project, a nonprofit research and public interest group, has identified over 400 military, intelligence, government and corporate witnesses to rogue UFO and ET-related projects and events. The testimony of these witnesses along with government documents and other evidence may be seen at
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: A Thought Occurs - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:22:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:45:41 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Velez >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:10:02 -0500 >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>From: John Vlez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:53:10 -0400 >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 ><snip> >>Much to the shame of modern science and scientists, such a >>multi-disciplinary study by an independent and impartial group >>of experts has never been performed. Nor are there any plans for >>such a study in the works. ><snip> >Actually, your information is not entirely correct. There is a study >currently underway. Hola once again Mz. Felder, Ok Bobbie, I'll bite. But only on one condition; the study you are going to tell me about has to include the basic 'Bullet- proofing' criteria I mentioned in my post. Otherwise my statement that such a study (as outlined in the original post) is not in the works, will stand. Ok? The criteria I set forth should automatically eliminate the following types of "studies" as being qualified candidates: 1. Studies that are initiated by one of the 'subjects' and that involve the use of a participants' personal physicians, or researchers that have pre-existing relationships with _any_ of the subjects. If #1 is the case, the alleged "study" is D.O.A. Any clinical study that expects to be taken seriously cannot include such pre-existing or long term relationships between the researchers and the subjects of the study. Just 'one' of the ways it becomes invalidated is because of the possibility of collusion or personal bias from researcher to subject. Especially if one of the subjects is 'compensating' the researcher(s) financially to perform the work. Under such conditions, 'objectivity' becomes the first casualty. To 'bullet-proof' the study from such accusations/allegations, the researchers cannot have any kind of pre-existing personal relationship with _any_ of the subjects. Much less if they are being compensated financially by one of the subjects for 'services rendered.' Nobody would be able to trust the results that will come out of such a situation. No professional or academic would ever acknowledge the results of a study that was conducted under such conditions as being worthy of serious consideration. And only because of the 'conditions' under which the information was obtained. Any study which is not completely _impartial_ is simply not going to benefit anyone because its integrity will always be in question. 2. Any studies where one of the "subjects" of the study has had anything to do with the selection process of the other subjects. This one is a no-brainer. If one of the subjects of a study is in any way involved in the coordination, supervision or selection process of either the researchers themselves or any of the other subjects, once again, it instantly invalidates it. Again, time and money wasted and no benefit to anyone is secured. 3. Any studies that involve the use of unknown, untried or 'unheard of' techniques which may or may not include the employment of 'experimental' drugs (of any kind) to gather raw data. Again, a no-brainer. No elaboration needed to explain how something like #3 would also kill any "study" dead that is contaminated in that way. Leaving it open to so many more questions than it needs to be. So, what does that leave us as viable candidates? It leaves us; any _multi-disciplinary_ study that is being conducted utilizing the highest scientific standards; that is being carried out by an _impartial_ group of investigators from an _independent_ institution or university; who have established rigorous criteria for the selection (vetting) of the subjects; and which has clearly defined scientific objectives. Afterwards they _must_ be willing to publish in peer review journals under their own names and with the name and reputation of their institution or university behind it or whatever 'findings' they may come up with will (once again) benefit no one. An improperly conceived and conducted study will be torn to shreds and relegated to the dust heap the second it hits the news stands. "Abductees/experiencers" will not have benefited in any way. (The alleged 'point' of it all.) Precious and rare resources will have been squandered. Energy and time wasted. What we need is; the kind of a rigorous study that will not only stand up to the inevitable attack, but maybe even provide some "answers" for the many people world-wide that so desperately need _reliable_ answers and information. I have mentioned this before in another thread: About four/five years ago I contacted Dick Hall/FUFOR because I wanted him to help me get a 'rock solid' medical study off the ground. He put me in touch with a top doctor from a well known medical institution in Chicago. After I relayed my proposal to the doctor he expressed interest in it. The source for 'pre-investigated' potential subjects was going to come from the files of some of the major investigators/researchers in the field. The lack of interest and cooperation I received at their hands was what killed the whole project before it ever got started. It was one of the first 'sobering' lessons I learned about how hard it is to get people to share their work with others in the same business. Hey, maybe those files represent $ to some of them. It is now common knowledge that Bigelow's NIDS pays $200.00 smackers US funds for each file. Or maybe they are just paranoid about being ripped off. Who knows? Who cares? What does matter is; their covetous behavior helps to retard progress rather than to expedite it. And... they are 'supposed to be' on our side! Go figure. It is a 'part' of the reason why I pulled away from all of them and struck out on my own. But I digress. Sorry. Other than putting the doctors together with the researchers, and the researchers in touch with a funding/oversight source (FUFOR) I was not going to have anything to do with it. (Beyond performing the 'mid-wife' function I described.) If you don't think I was terribly disappointed and pissed over that one, you don't know me at all. And you don't! :) Yeah, I care _deeply_ about seeing a properly conducted/executed medical study of abductees performed. I have paid it much more than mere 'lip-service' over the years. It is why I am so 'vociferous' about the subject and why I feel I have a right to 'sound off' about it if I want to. It isn't just 'rap' with me. I tried to do something about it. (And I tried to do it "right" the first time.) Hey, I have a lot of personal stock invested in such a study myself. That's why if it's not the _best_ that can be done, then it shouldn't be done at all. The resources are better applied trying to get the "real thing" (a _rock_solid_ study) off the ground. 'Cowboy science' isn't going to do anyone (except maybe the author of the inevitable book) any good at all. Time to demand the _best_ rather than settling for any old 'dog and pony show' that rolls into town. This is a very serious business for a great many people. And, if we don't begin to command some respect, we'll never get any. Time to get _serious_ people. Now, tell me all about that "study" you're talking about Bobbie. But I'll tell you right now, if it violates any of the basic standards as outlined above, don't expect any response. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over. I have already said just about everything I can say on the subject. Twice!! :) John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:07:45 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:48:47 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Morris >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:32:59 +0100 >From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:07:11 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>1. What aspect(s) of the article do you/Nick regard as >>exclusive? >The publication of _Top Secret_ DSI/JTIC documents (not the >secret ones) was the main scoop, but there are numerous others, >as we have previously explained. These include the linking of >General MacArthur's enquiry concerning a crashed flying bomb >with the Westerham Incident and Dorothy Killgallen's story; >Adamski's visit to Earl Mountbatten's Broadlands estate; and the >whole way in which we explain how wider developments and >rivalries in the scientific intelligence field had a bearing on >how the UFO phenomenon was viewed and handled by the MOD. I'm sorry, but this is not good enough. There is nothing new here and to claim that you "published" the documents first is not true. These were already available last year on Andy and Dave's website. I know for a fact that Dave Clarke had this information in 2000 and it won't do to claim that you have been researching "other Cold War" material. It's a cop out, surely. >2. What specifically led you/Nick to request the files relating >to report No. 7 from the PRO, and when was that? >For some years now I have been working with former Chief of the >Defence Staff Lord Hill-Norton in attempts to secure UFO related >material from the British Government. Acquisition of Report No 7 >and Top Secret DSI/JTIC minutes are part of a much wider >research process. Yes, that Andy Roberts and Dave Clarke undertook and completed giving you access to the file references. As has been stated, Pope knew nothing about these documents when they interviewed him a couple of years ago! >Suffice to say, I have also been researching >non-UFO material relating to the Cold War. The secret documents >were obtained last year from the MOD and the top secret >documents were obtained early this year as a result of >requesting file numbers from the MOD. >>3. The timing of the article may appear to some to be with the >>deliberate intention of pre-empting Andy and Dave's release of >>of 'Out of the shadows' - is that the case, or was this just a >>coincidence? >We've actually been researching and gathering material for quite >some time. I'm sure you must realise that an article of 5000 >plus words does not just materialise without some research being >undertaken. No, it requires you to see what everyone else has done and then make up some conclusions based upon their work! >Add to this the pressure of business and personal >commitments, and you have your answer. There's nothing sinister >about the timing; we published when our initial research was >completed and our article was written; end of story. >>I hope this can be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. Thank >>you for your patience with what may seem to you to be trivial >>questions, but it is important to ufology - if people become >>afraid to publish early findings in case they are pre-empted, >>information exchange will be even more severely hampered than it >>is already. >These are indeed trivial questions; we have been very patient >over the last few weeks. No they are not trivial. They go right to the heart of your and Nick's credibility and you have not been particularly patient nor have you answered the questions in full. >This is not important to ufology; what >_is_ important is the research material that we've placed in the >public domain. >We are happy to discuss the content of the article but will not >respond to any further posts of this nature. In other words, your very own cover up?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:27:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:51:43 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:53:34 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >As I've explained previously, and as many others who have >shelled out for UFO magazine UK have discovered to their >chagrin, Georgina's article is simply a potboiler packed full >of material borrowed from other people, with nothing new on >offer at all. This is not true. This entire debate has descended into a stream of insults directed at Nick Pope and myself. It will be obvious to most list members that this is simply part of a glorified book plugging exercise for Dave and Andy. Best wishes Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:27:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:53:27 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:27:28 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Adamski's visit to Earl Mountbatten's Broadlands estate >Georgina and Nick's article states that: >"Another to attend the Second Interplanetary Spacecraft >Convention and who would go on to meet Lord Mountbatten at his >Broadlands estate on 23 February 1955 was George Adamski....." >Surely 23rd February 1955 was when the alleged UFO event took >place at Broadlands? So where does Adamski come into the story? >Having done quite a bit of research on Adamski's world tour when >he visited Britain (in 1959, NOT 1955) I haven't come across any >reference to Adamski visiting Mountbatten at Broadlands. >Mountbatten's personal papers, held at Southampton University, >contain extensive references to his interest in UFOs, yet fail >to mention such a meeting in either 1955 or 1959. Indeed, by >1959 Mountbatten's interest in UFOs had lessened dramatically. >So, I'm intrigued. Perhaps Georgina can enlighten us as to how >Adamski met Mountbatten on 23rd Feb 1955 or on what date, and >where, he _did_ meet Mountbatten, and what the evidence for that >meeting is? 23 February 1955 was indeed the date of the Broadlands UFO sighting. This should be clear from the main text of our article. What you refer to is the UFO Magazine Fact File, a series of boxes depicting information on the individuals mentioned in our article. This was not compiled by Nick or myself. Unfortunately the boxed material on Adamski did contain this error. We have described Adamski's meeting with Mountbatten in our article. This took place in 1963 at Desmond Leslie's London home. Also present were Lord Dowding, Brinsley Le Poer Trench (later Lord Clancarty), Emily Crew and a colleague. Emily (now in her 80s) was our source for this information; she kindly gave us her notes of that period along with contacts and other details of Adamski's 1963 visit (not to be confused with his 1959 trip). The date Emily gave for this unique meeting was 2 June 1963.That same day Mountbatten took the party to Broadlands to see the location of the UFO sighting. Emily was also invited but didn't go along because she had a long journey home. More about this will be published in the May issue of UFO Magazine, and we will be presenting further details at the September conference. I hope this fills in a few gaps for you. Best wishes Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Friedman From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:41:08 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:58:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Friedman >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:09:55 -0600 >Subject: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update >Greetings to the Research Community: >Wendy Connors and Bill Jones (Ohio MUFON) are very pleased to >announce the recovery and preservation of the original taped >interview of Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker, Jr. by the >Pascagoula, MS Sheriff's Department. Recorded within a couple of >hours following their abduction, this 30 minute recording was >made without Mr. Hickson or Mr. Parker's knowledge and had not >been known to exist to the general crypto-aeronautic community >until now. >During the early 1960s and through the 1970s, researchers would >record radio newscasts, etc. on reel to reel tape recorders and >share these and taped letters among themselves. Richard T. Lee >was one of these early researchers who was interested in the >metaphysical, including the crypto-aeronautic phenomena. It is >from his collection that this tape (much deteriorated) has been >recovered, preserved and prevented from being lost to future >generations of researchers and crypto-aeronautical historians. >This recording is extremely valuable both to abduction >researchers and for its historical aspects. The sound quality is >rather substandard, as normally found with law enforcement >recordings from the period, but is listenable. The recording has >been digitally preserved and transferred to CD format. The >interview lasts approximately 30 minutes with Hickson and Parker >promising to return the following day to the Sheriff's >Department to give a formal statement. >Perhaps the most crucial importance of the recording lies in the >fact that Hickson and Parker relate the experience within a few >hours of the abduction and the listener can hear their >confusion, fear and astonishment (not just to the Sheriff's >deputies, but among themselves when they remain alone in the >room) at what they had just experienced. >Copies of this CD will be made available to researchers in the >near future and instructions on how to obtain a copy of the CD >will be posted on the various Lists in due course. >Thank you, >Wendy Connors and Bill Jones Please add me to your list of those wanting copies of the CD.I surely was unaware that the tape was available. Kudos to Wendy and Bill!! As it happens I did a radio talk show in Los Angeles with Hilly Rose at KFI radio the day after the Pascagoula case. There was a press story and we arranged to have one of the deputies on the show by phone. He noted that Charlie and Calvin would have to have been Oscar winning actors to sound as distressed as they were even when left by themselves. They were not aware of the taping. Having spent time with both, I am reasonably well satisfied that the event indeed took place. Jim Harder also went there on behalf of APRO and came away, as I recall, convinced. I was already booked to speak at the University of Mississippi just a couple of days later. There was a packed auditorium of over 1200 people. I should add that during that trip I found that there were other witnesses to the UFO as well. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:01:31 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:58:02 -0400 Subject: Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO Source: Channel3000 on Wisconsin's wisctv.com Go to the site for photos: http://www.channel3000.com/news/1399882/detail.html Stig *** Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO Owner Supposedly Spent $200,000 To Have Object Analyzed UPDATED: 11:52 p.m. EDT April 15, 2002 ** KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- A Missouri man is drawing a lot of attention because of a classified advertisement he placed. Bob White of Reeds Spring, Mo., placed an ad for a piece of a UFO. His asking price: $10 million. White found the silver object in the early '80s in Colorado after seeing a strange light in the sky. White said he spent nearly $200,000 to have the two-pound metallic object analyzed by laboratories. He said it is 80 percent aluminum, but it also contains 30 rare earth components and some things that cannot be identified. White said he has already received some offers, but he would not say for how much. ** Entire Site =A9 2002, Internet Broadcasting Systems, Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 BBC Radio MoD X-Files From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:32:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:26:36 -0400 Subject: BBC Radio MoD X-Files www.radiotimes.com Thursday, 25 April 2002 BBC Radio 4: FM 92.4-94.6; LW 198 8pm Choice of the Day: Britain's X-Files Conspiracy theorists and fans of the long-running television series will enjoy this half hour, which benefits from access to Ministry of Defence files only recently released under the absurd rules whereby the decisions of one generation are kept hidden from the next two. Were aliens about to invade Britain shortly after the Second World War? R.A.F. pilots reported strange objects in the skies and radar tracking stations also picked up the signals, but although these were undoubtedly unidentified flying objhects in the literal sense of the term, Britain's defence chiefs were not primarily of a mind to believe that Martians were about to land. Their concern was that the Soviet Union, an ally against Hitler, may have developed a deadly new fighter. Britain's response is documented here by historians David Clarke and Andy Roberts *A series of unexplained sightings in the skies over Britain in the postwar years helped to fuel a growing national fixation with aliens and UFOs. Officially, Whitehall denied interested but this programme reveals details of secret investigations carried out by a government terrified of the Russians. Presenter: Gerry Northam Interviews: David Clarke and Andy Roberts Producer: David Lewis www.flyingsaucery.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: A Thought Occurs - Salvaille From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:03:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:29:06 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Salvaille >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:26:02 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 >>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 >>>Subject: A Thought Occurs <snip> >I started my abduction investigations in 1976 >and stuck to a few good cases (good in that they were >information rich and had some modicum of evidence) and started >to back off involvement about 1996. >Since my wife is one of these cases, I have had a chance to >evaluate events with her from personal involvement. >I have come to believe that not all her reported events are >physical though there are physical body marks. >I have also come to believe that not all of these are >UFO-related. >So, why does she have these experiences? <snip> Hello Bill, In my opinion, one of the best and most objective abduction synopsis I've read. Your wife's experience is very interesting as you mention that not all her experiences were UFO related and some were. Was there any difference in the experiences and did certain body marks relate to non-UFO related experiences also? Finally, do you intend to publish anything about this case? Regards, Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@mcgonaglenet.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:25:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:41:42 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle Hello, List/Georgina, >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:32:59 +0100 >From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:07:11 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>1. What aspect(s) of the article do you/Nick regard as >>exclusive? <snip> I have remarked on the content already in a separate post. >2. What specifically led you/Nick to request the files relating >to report No. 7 from the PRO, and when was that? >For some years now I have been working with former Chief of the >Defence Staff Lord Hill-Norton in attempts to secure UFO related >material from the British Government. Acquisition of Report No 7 >and Top Secret DSI/JTIC minutes are part of a much wider >research process. Suffice to say, I have also been researching >non-UFO material relating to the Cold War. The secret documents >were obtained last year from the MOD and the top secret >documents were obtained early this year as a result of >requesting file numbers from the MOD. I am sorry to note that you state below that you will say no more on this aspect, because you have not adequately answered the question. It appears to me that you have tried to confuse the the issue with extraneous detail (or are you suggesting that Lord Hill-Norton knew of the document and pointed you in the right direction? If not, why is his name mentioned at all?) You could also be suggesting that you came across the documents through almost randomly browsing the 9 million files stored at the PRO? You also fail to give any indication of whether you requested the documents before or after two "enterprising members of the public" published the file reference for the bulk of the documents at www.flyingsaucery.com, leaving the question open as to whether you have used their efforts toward your article without crediting them. >>3. The timing of the article may appear to some to be with the >>deliberate intention of pre-empting Andy and Dave's release of >>of 'Out of the shadows' - is that the case, or was this just a >>coincidence? >We've actually been researching and gathering material for quite >some time. I'm sure you must realise that an article of 5000 >plus words does not just materialise without some research being >undertaken. Add to this the pressure of business and personal >commitments, and you have your answer. There's nothing sinister >about the timing; we published when our initial research was >completed and our article was written; end of story. In the light of your evident reluctance to credit the two "enterprising members of the public" by name in the past, and the lingering suspicion that this also applies to the UFO magazine article, it would not surprise me to find that the timing was intended as a spoiler, though I don't understand the reasons for such petty behaviour. In summary, you response does nothing to dispel any of the suspicions expressed by Andy and Dave, and inclines me to think that they are possibly correct. >>I hope this can be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. Thank >>you for your patience with what may seem to you to be trivial >>questions, but it is important to ufology - if people become >>afraid to publish early findings in case they are pre-empted, >>information exchange will be even more severely hampered than it >>is already. >These are indeed trivial questions; we have been very patient >over the last few weeks. This is not important to ufology; what >_is_ important is the research material that we've placed in the >public domain. You will already have read my opinion of the important "research material" in the article. I maintain that the outstanding questions about the provenance behind the PRO documents used in your article are important to ufology-in a private email, I have been told that this incident has persuaded someone not to publish early findings, in case they suffer the same fate. >We are happy to discuss the content of the article but will not >respond to any further posts of this nature. >That's all we have to say on the matter. If you are sincere about your independent research, then that is your loss. All that your response has done is lend more weight to the suspicions surrounding the article being greatly influenced by the detailed research of "two enterprising members of the public". Regards, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: To Chinese UFO Buffs It's A Serious Science - From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:29:38 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:46:33 -0400 Subject: Re: To Chinese UFO Buffs It's A Serious Science - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:10:48 +0200 >Subject: To Chinese UFO Buffs It's A Serious Science >Source: CNN Europe, >http://europe.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/04/12/hk.Ufology.china/index.html >Stig >*** >To Chinese UFO buffs, it's a serious science >April 12, 2002 Posted: 0818 GMT >CNN's Kristie Lu Stout >** >HONG KONG, China (CNN) - UFO research is the stuff of sci-fi >buffs and conspiracy freaks, but in China it's treated >seriously. A video has been released on http://asia.cnn.com/video/ (bottom left) and the feature is being broadcast on CNN International today.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: A Thought Occurs - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:26:27 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:08:38 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Ledger >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:33:27 -0400 <snip> >For what it's worth, David Pritchard, a physicist at MIT, had >much the same idea about abductions. He had doubts about SETI - >why look for alien radio signals, he asked (or at least he said >this to me once), when the aliens might be right here on earth. >This was a credentialed physicist at MIT. >He also thought, if I remember correctly, that abduction >research could be more productive than standard UFO research. >His contribution, apart from arranging a very productive >conference in collaboration with John Mack, was to investigate >an implant case. The supposed implant (in somebody's penis) >turned out to be a familiar earthly substance. >After that, Pritchard got out of UFO work, as far as I know. In >part that's because he found it hard to be an MIT physicist >engaged in abduction work. UFO buffs would call the MIT physics >department, looking for him, which, he told me, annoyed the >department chair. Pritchard worried, too, that he might get >notorious for UFO work, and lose funding for his mainstream >research. And beyond all that, the abduction research didn't >seem to be getting anywhere. <snip> Hi Greg, Your comments about Pritchard at MIT highlight two of the basic problem most of us run up against. Fear of the loss of income due to our curiosity and/or running up against the self serving hierarchy in science which determines what is or is not researchable in polite company and how much money is being shoveled into such research. The Ponds and Fleishman [sp] debacle is a good example where mainstream mega funded physics [and MIT can shoulder the largest percentage of the scorn here] shamefully jumped all over a couple of chemists [how dare they] making it appear that they had perpetrated a hoax when in fact they had not as been proven time and again since they first tabled their findings. Mainstream science wants the answers all right as long as the way of going about this research is fruitful and doesn't ruffle any feathers and most importantly doesn't do it cheaply-where's the cushy and prodigious and highly paid income in that? Ufologists [my spell checker always suggests I replace this with Urologists] have had a tough time of it over the years, where it came to coming up to the door of a UFO and then going inside. There has been much burying of the heads under pillows when it comes to that point. Sure they are up there, sure they are flitting around our skies, sure they are acting as if they are intelligently controlled-but what's intelligently controlling them and where does this intelligence come from? I've often said that I would expect SETI to blow off this phenomenon because if we are right, then they are out of a job. SETI and the search for extraterrestrial life only works at a distance-not up close and personal. Perhaps it's because I came into the field late in life that I don't have a problem going through the door - to me it only makes sense. And the abduction field seems to me a logical progression from the nuts and bolts outside the door to the control panels and the chairs inside. The opportunity here for the discovery of trace evidence is extremely high-the abductees themselves are [sorry folks] trace evidence. I've taken an interest lately in cattle mutilations because there is another area fraught with controversy but which might yield up corroborating evidence. Strangely though this phenomenon seems to be happening out west but not here-though there are hints of it. Early experiments with nuclear testing maybe as some have proposed? But winds blow usually west to east. A brief aside here. There are other areas outside of our little world that seem interested. I've been interviewed for a business magazine here in Atlantic Canada, which I though a curious place to talk UFOs. But there you are. The writer is Paula Adamski. Confronted about her last name she said that she found a picture of the "other" Adamski in a book once and he was a dead ringer for her uncle. Question. Who gets to say that UFOs are a fact, that they are intelligently controlled, obviously extraterrestrial. If there was a pre-eminent scientist respected all over the world these days like Einstein was in his day and he or she said yes, what we've suspected is true... would this opinion be overridden by a Public Relations Lieutenant in the USAF? It never seems to take much. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:22:27 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:00:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:33:45 -0500 >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:09:07 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>Jerry, it is clear that you seem to be alone in your over- >>reaction to the Pelican's joke, adolescent jeer (the venerable >>Pelican enjoyed that one) or what you will. Other people seem to >>have seen it as humour and reacted accordingly. >As I read them, they were registering their agreement with me, >not their appreciation of what your big-billed friend and you, >apparently alone, regard as humor. But I've made my larger >point, and I drop the subject. Jerry, forgive me if rather belatedly I don't let this drop. You seem to have a very selective view on what is or is not acceptable as humour in a posting on this list. Looking up something else on the List Archive I came across this little gem: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m09-009.shtml From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 00:43:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 15:08:31 -0400 Subject: Re: IFOs >>Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:27:55 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>Subject: Re: IFOs >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >Subject: Re: IFOs >Date: Sat, 31 Jul 99 10:27:32 PDT >>I'm puzzled. Are you comparing The UFO Handbook to Magonia, as >>two "pelicanist" publications, and suggesting that the Handbook >>dismisses UFO reports with "grand rhetorical gestures? >Any more of this disingenuous play-acting and I think I am going >to pass into a deep, deep slumber. For the rest of you: remember, >it's John and his fellow pelicanists who are always citing The UFO >Handbook as some sort of definitive validation of their position. >It isn't, of course, but John can't seem to grasp that he was being >ribbed here. If I didn't know you better, my friend, I'd wonder if >you have a sense of humor. Well, Jerry it seems that a sense of humour is OK for yourself, but becomes adolescent jeering, or anti-Americanism when expressed by anyone else. "Disingenuous play-acting" is a perfect description of your overwrought response to the Pelican's light-hearted comments. It was just a bit of ribbing. If I didn't know you better, old chum, I'd wonder if you have a sense of humour. >>The point the Pelican was making was that Keel's on-the-spot >>research, far from being cranky and unrepresentative, was >>confirmed by other researchers, but the experiences he uncovered >>fitted poorly into the ET hypothesis supported by a majority of >>ufologists at the time, and subsequently. As a result, a lot of >>these experiences were edited from the record by "America's ETH >>Ufologists". Peter Rogerson has covered a lot of this ground in >>his "Notes Towards a Revisionist History of Abductions", in the >>Eighties Archives on the Magonia website. >I am curious to know exactly what was "edited from the record by >'America's ETH Ufologists.'" Just check the article by Peter Rogerson that I refer to for a detailed account of the way certain cases have been edited out of the standard account of abduction history. >And why is Keel - whom you were >dismissing as irrational and unreliable just a posting or so ago >-- suddenly someone to whom we are all supposed to be >answerable? Especially when his "data" include all kinds of >hoaxes and otherwise dubious yarns? Do you really believe that >the tall tales of Woody Derenberger and George Adamski, or of >1897 "airship inventors," discredit the ETH, or tell us anything >we need to know about it? And are you really arguing that it is >American ufologists' - excuse me, "America's ETH ufologists'" - >- obligation to argue their case from the worst, and not the >best, evidence? If so, this is an unusually transparent >debunker's ploy. I will repeat: the point I was making, and which you seem determined to overlook, is that much of the data in Keel's books is replicated by accounts from other researchers. Keel then goes on to weave fantasies and dreams from his data, and most of his interpretation is pretty tongue in cheek. In fact sometimes I think he's 'ribbing' us! But his first-hand accounts of the cases he himself has investigated stand up well besides the reports of other ufologists, and the implications of these reports do not fit in well with the extraterrestrial theory of UFO origins. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Missouri Man Claims... Addendum I From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:21:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:02:18 -0400 Subject: Missouri Man Claims... Addendum I For an ongoing scientific analysis of the object, go to: http://www.hardevidence.com/Analysis.htm Stig
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 A Strange New Form Of Matter? From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:00:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:05:01 -0400 Subject: A Strange New Form Of Matter? "Astronomers think they might have spotted a quark star, a mass of fundamental particles only a few kilometres across but weighing more than our Sun. If the star's nature is confirmed, it would be the first example of this state of matter." Full story at: http://www.nature.com/nsu/020408/020408-8.html Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: A Thought Occurs - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:10:57 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Hamilton >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:18:57 -0500 >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:26:02 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 >>>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:58:55 -0500 >>>>Subject: A Thought Occurs ><snip> >>I believe the kind of research program needed to study just this >>phenomena would be extremely expensive just in trying to locate >>the invisible agency producing it. >>So, as it is with you, I have mostly gone back to a study of UFO >>sightings and encounters. >Hi Bill. Let me make sure I'm reading you correctly here. Are >you saying that you backed off the subject of abduction because >of financial concerns regarding the investigation of same, and >not because of a lack of evidence to support the claims of >abductees? I am saying that with my limited resources I could not conduct a thorough investigation. Also, it would take a team to adequately examine evidence. Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Food For Thought - White From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:14:01 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:14:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Food For Thought - White >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:15:04 -0400 >Subject: Re: Food For Thought >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:39:25 +0000 >>Subject: Food For Thought >Hello Eleanor, >You wrote: >>Many thanks to John Velez for saving the two made-public implant >>analyses by NIDS so the public can still see them. >In all fairness to NIDS the reports are almost five years old. >I'm sure that in the name of keeping fresh reports and >information available online they have to take down old info >from time to time. I got permission years ago from Roger Lier to >post that stuff on the old Intruders Foundation website. When >the site became IF-AIC and then morphed into AIC, the reports >just remained as a part of the presentation on the subject. I'm >just glad that some folks are actually taking the time to read >all that stuff. That's why I posted it all to begin with. :) Respectfully, John, I can't agree that actual physical evidence, likely alien, of such an invasive and personal nature as implants should _ever_ be taken down. Physical evidence is almost non- existent, yet NIDS considers _eighteen_ of these devices so un-important that they 'need to take them down'? A web site, using hypertext, can easily accommodate text and images, which are very small in size compared with moving video and sound. There is no compelling reason with web-based technology for taking these crucial reports and images down. If I were an abductee, I'd be on their doorstep with a picket sign protesting this withdrawal of important information which is timeless in significance. Abductees lament their non- mainstream and too-often ignored status. What better way to get well deserved attention than posting every bit of physical evidence and keeping it in the public's face? >It doesn't take away one iota from the fact that NIDS has >gathered and purchased large amounts of raw data/information >that never again sees the light of day. But that's a whole other >story. I have always considered NIDS a Black hole for UFO and >abduction information. This is my personal speculation here, but that alone should be cause for vigorous protest. I can't do so because I'm only a UFO news follower, not a researcher. But I am involved in other matters in which government and the scientific establisment expend considerable effort to make sure information which belongs to the citizens of this planet is kept hidden. This is why I pointed up this apparent hiding of important information, and I apologize if I didn't make plain that I'm offering opinion here. >Their "output" is nowhere near proportionate to their "intake" >of info. >>The fact that the other 16 remain under wraps, and the two made >>public appear to be metal fragments rather than manufactured >>technology triggers a thought. If I were running the UFO cover >>up, I'd find it difficult to come up with a _better_ cover up >>tactic than to feed NIDS two subjects "implanted" with ordinary >>metal fragments. >As true as that "may be" it still only speculation and should be >couched in those terms. That way there won't be any mistaking >speculative comments for statements of fact. It's ok to >speculate as long as you're responsible about it and _clear_ to >all readers that that is what you are doing. Otherwise some >nasty rumors can get started that way. >>I'd guess in all of the 300 million U.S. citizens, a couple >>could be found who were willing to be implanted with metal >>fragments and to then volunteer to NIDS for removal and >>analysis. Some money, and a maybe a threat or two against family >>members can work wonders. >Again, although it 'may well be true' this is more speculation. Again I apologize for not making my speculation better stated as such. But I've encountered so much secrecy and obfuscation in other matters that I felt compelled to comment on this case at least. ** Remember that "speculation" is an integral part of scientific investigation, where it goes by the name "hypothesis". Speculation can, in an instant, cause others to have _insights_ they might not have otherwise had, had not the speculator spoken up. At age 60 I can't even count the number of times someone's casual remark has opened important new doors for whatever project I was involved with. >>The news that some implants are mere metal fragments would be >>very handy in efforts to discredit _all_ implantees, especially >>if such a "distinguished organization" as NIDS keeps the others >>under wraps. >Are they "under wraps?" Have you asked NIDS for the information? The main purpose of my email was to suggest a modus operandi for cover up work. I do plan to ask them for information - I've been very busy in other matters but will get to that soon. >If so, what was their response? I would imagine such a request >would find its way to the desk of Colm Kellaher for disposition. I will contact him. I do recall, however, that on another matter, Dr. Kelleher did not reply to my inquiry. >Have you made a request to him, and has he responded? You have >to be real careful about accusing people of intentional >suppression of information. At least "careful" in the terms you >use to couch the indictment. (See above!) ;) I based my remark on a previous email from you, in which you told me you had the two posted, after I had told you I could not find them on their site. Perhaps I was mistaken, however, physical evidence from other worlds I would expect to be prominently linked. Again, I will soon try to contact NIDS to find out if the information is available. I was questioning the fact that it is not posted on their site in this original email to the List. >>If I were the cover up boss, that gambit would appeal to me. >They don't really have to do anything Eleanor. Nobody takes us >seriously anyway. The "cover-up bosses" probably spend more time >with one hand shoved down the front of their trousers (ala Al >Bundy) and a Rolling Rock beer in the other than they do scheming >up ways to make ufology look any sillier than it does all by >itself. :) Well that may be, but in other matters, I and my colleagues have observed some really intense efforts and tactics aimed at covering up things. While the cover up bosses may do all sorts of strange things, I can tell you from work in another field that they take their cover up mission very seriously and put very intense effort into it. Eleanor White Hamilton ON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Secrecy News -- 04/16/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:00:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:18:45 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/16/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 31 April 16, 2002 ** BUSH ORDER ON PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS CHALLENGED ** INTER-AMERICAN CONVENTION ON ARMS TRANSPARENCY BUSH ORDER ON PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS CHALLENGED In a frontal challenge to one of the Bush Administration's more controversial information policies, legislation was introduced in Congress last week that would nullify President Bush's executive order 13233, which imposed new restrictions on public access to presidential records from past administrations. The November 1 Bush executive order represented "an extremely expansive view of the scope of executive privilege," said Rep. Stephen Horn (R-CA), who introduced the new bill along with 22 cosponsors. Among other novel claims, the order asserted that executive privilege could be inherited by the estate of a deceased president. For this and other reasons, Rep. Horn said, the Bush order "violates the letter and spirit of the Presidential Records Act," the 1978 law that governs the disposition of presidential records. The new bill, dubbed "The Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2002" (HR 4187), is posted here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/hr4187.html Rep. Horn's introductory statement is posted here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/041102horn.html Testimony from a hearing entitled "The Importance of Access to Presidential Records: The Views of Historians," held before the House Government Reform Committee on April 11, is posted here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/index.html#pra INTER-AMERICAN CONVENTION ON ARMS TRANSPARENCY The Inter-American Convention on Transparency in Conventional Weapons Acquisitions has now been signed by 20 members of the Organization of American States, "including all major hemispheric conventional weapons importers and exporters," according to a U.S. State Department Fact Sheet issued on April 9. The Convention requires each party to report annually on imports and exports of conventional weapons, and to report on acquisitions of such weapons, whether through import or manufacture. "The Convention establishes a new transparency norm that will foster greater dialogue and understanding about major conventional weapons acquisitions," according to the State Department. The Convention is "a good first step in promoting regional confidence-building," said Tamar Gabelnick of the Federation of American Scientists Arms Sales Monitoring Project. She noted, however, that important categories of weapons such as small arms are not covered by the Convention. The April 9 State Department Fact Sheet on "Inter-American Convention on Transparency in Conventional Weapons Acquisitions" is posted here: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/04/dos040902.html ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:24:12 +0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:26:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Lehmberg >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:02:24 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:30:38 +0600 >>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>Alfred's Odd Ode #361 ><snip> That was one if your more inclusive snips, John. >Hello Alfred, >Warning: Lengthy post ahead. Proceed at your own risk. :) Hey! Let's strap warp engines to this puppy and soar or cleave to the infinite and all the ports of call! >You wrote: ...oh, much, much more than you would reference, John. In fact, I'm a little dismayed that you chose the most peripheral of the points that I was trying to make to vent the most "gas" on, as referenced in #361... it's a hint to me that you've a suspicion that your position is weak. >>At the risk of being unintelligible to a much too easily baffled >>Richard Hall or inordinately inconclusive to a too-quick-to- >>dismiss Dave Furlotte (SDI Saturday night...), >You choose to insult an intelligent man by declaring that he is >"too easily baffled" yet you don't grant the possibility that >some of the contributions to this List _are_ unintelligible and >at times downright incoherent. I have stated my own observations >about this in the past. That's simple nonsense and a demonstration you can mimic Mr. Hall's assumed (as in cloak donning, evading, dodging) cluelessness, John - A cluelessness assumed like a cloak and festooned with complaints about coherency, validity, or intelligence when understanding is actually present... the big pieces are there, just feigned cluelessness to keep from addressing larger more foundational issues raised by the haplessly labeled "incoherent"? A large part of the incoherence comes perhaps from a reluctance of some to deal with the larger subject at hand. You ignored about 99.1% of my post for the red herring you slap me with here, for example. We're agreed Mr. Hall's likely "too easy" bafflement _is_ a puzzle, John, (given his otherwise _well_ known (and I thought uncontested) cognitive solidity, ability, and incisiveness) a puzzle placed right along the inflated outrage you express here about a comment too obviously seen as no evaluation of anyone's _intelligence_, at all. There were bigger fish to fry in my post, John. You chose the least important, proclaimed an inflated straw-man of insult and disrespect, and managed to push it 180 degrees out of proportion. That's a fallacious dodge, John. How many more of these will you make in this post? >Just to give one example of how wrong your own 'take' on this >may be - I'm certain that a job like being responsible for the >administration of an organization whose sole purpose is the >dispensation of available research monies, is not a position >that is bestowed on anyone who demonstrates that they are, "too >easily baffled." I'm fairly certain that the people looking to >fill such a position would look for the sharpest, most >intelligent and trustworthy person of unimpeachable character >that they could find to fill the bill. Well - when we remember that insult, disrespect, and now assaults on character are, so far, all _your_ clever invention, this is a speciously inappropriate appeal to authority and fallacy number two. >Does any of that 'ring a bell' with you? You know, as in FUFOR >and Ricahrd Hall? ...Distracting sarcasm. Fallacy #3? ...and I'll go get the three cornered velvet cushion, the one with the blinking tassels, John, forgetting that this defense of his credentials is likely an embarrassment to him given he's being used as the hapless bludgeon in a bad argument. _I've_ showed a lot more respect for him so far than that, John. >I'd sooner take Dick's word that someone on this List made an >incomprehensible remark, than insult him by making cutesy >innuendo's about the sharpness of his mind. Well, if you can recognize "a cutesy innuendo" then perhaps that's a small admission that you know the only one raising a question on Mr. Hall's competency, intelligence, and over-all sharpness is _you_ John. Is that duplicity? Fallacy number four. >This has been bothering me. Oh, posh in ancient diaper bags. That's not what's bothering you, if I may be so bold. >Some 'Internet hobbyists' who have not made _any_ contributions >to the field and who have no credentials themselves, >(egotistically) find it easy to insult and criticize >intelligent, experienced professionals who have established >impeccable credentials and track records. The remarks come off >as petty and blatantly disrespectful in spite of some feeble >attempts to disguise it. Now see... right here... Is it a stretch that you are dismissing me as an feeble 'Internet hobbyist' with no 'credentials' egotistical or otherwise? Did I read that wrong? If so, isn't that a little more of a personal attack on me than a debate on ideas? Ad Hominem? Fallacy #5. >I don't know, maybe I'm just 'old fashioned' but I treat people >who have _earned_ it, with the respect that is due them. You'll remember that when talking to me then, John, as it might be argued that whoever improves the position of John Velez has the most respect of same and that's a tactic that predates Shakespeare... so I guess you're pretty-old fashioned after all. >There >are members of this List who should feel deeply ashamed about >the treatment they have doled out to someone like Dick Hall. I >haven't heard any apologies either. It's a shame that someone like Mr. Hall has to take it on the chin for the sins of a duplicitous mainstream (you inexplicably embrace as he does, while you ignore criticism of it), but he's a big guy and his shoulders are broad. He'll likely survive the John Velez's and Alfred Lehmberg's well past a time when our inconsequential bones lie buried in our pauper's graves. Moreover, I think it likely that Mr. Hall thrives on the lack of apology you imply he must be so wounded by. I wouldn't think that he's the frail Nancy-boy you paint him out to be. >Dick is a tremendous resource and cache of history and >information for everyone on this List. Instead of appreciating >having someone as experienced as he is around and accessible on >this List, 'some' choose to insult and to 'dis' him. I say later >for _them!_ It's pretty understandable why you would. It's also pretty understandable why a lot of _them_ (and more all the time it seems) would say "later for _you_." Your approach is dictatorial, your execution authoritarian, and your social tolerance is hopelessly nil. This is not a little confusing given your citations for the wealth, scope, and depth of your spiritual training and personal sensitivity. Additionally, there seems to be a little more road-kill down your path than some others, I've noticed, but that's not a criticism; a soldier, I understand the concept of "Lead, follow, or get out of the way." >As for Dave Furlotte's 'My Take On It' piece on Saturday's >broadcast of SDI: >He was right on. Sounds like his mind was made up from the armchair that his bad counsel was pointed at. He was 'way off'. >People have a right to demand some kind of basic accountability >when being presented with mind-bending reports from 'unknown' >individuals. Has it been demanded of you with as much prejudice, the same inconsistency, and a similar arguable double standard? Who was there to poison _your_ well from the beginning. And some individuals are not that unknown, John. Some of these individuals are contributing members to the community over a period of years and deserve compensation for idiosyncratic credit accumulated, to _some_ small degree. Nothing else encourages loyalty. >They have a right (and I consider it a >'responsibility') to question something before blindly accepting >it. It's called being thoughtful and critical in terms of one's >thinking. And that thinking can be as critical as the bag one maintains over his or her head, the baggage that is carried along with the thinking, and even the unspoken agenda that the thinking aspires too. I submit that you are to close to the argument to comment rationally on it. You should recuse. >On the same program I made the remark that, "The Internet is >like a public phone booth, anyone can drop a coin into the slot >and say anything they wish to." Heh! I guess that explains the presence of you and me. >It is important for people to be >able to distinguish between these unknown random callers and >individuals whose lives have been subjected to investigation and >close scrutiny. Well great stars and little sputniks, John! Who do we have we can count on to make those correct distinctions for us ? ...You know that difference, John? Are you the best at separating the solid wheat from the inconstant chaff? I think the bag, baggage, and agenda associated with your canted take on things leaves you a questionable example of one to advice the rest of us regarding what those distinctions might be. >And there _is_ a difference. An important one. It is the >difference between the credibility that is to be granted to a >'self-proclaimed' unknown individual and one whose story and >character have been carefully vetted by an experienced >investigator. Uh-huh. Forgetting a moment that no one has yet been able to substantiate their abduction experience and that a definition of "carefully vetted" is all over the board, are these the same "experienced investigators" that have made such monumental ufological strides over the past hundred years? >Otherwise, why even bother going to an >investigator? Ha! Why indeed! LOL! They themselves provide the biggest reasons why folks are likely wasting their time going to them. >Anybody with a computer and an e-mail account can >just anything they want to, any time they want to and expect to >be given credence by the listener. Halle-freaking-luyah! Otherwise, you and I would have no voice at all. We stand or fall as time goes on... or move to the Chech Republic where one can purchace a quality girlfriend... <g>. >It just doesn't work that way >in the real world. ...Works for me! Sincerity, sensitivity, and creativity work in the real world. Like Chuck Shramek, taking a block-busting picture and immediately sharing it with the rank and file over the internet. You know, for all the canted smirking that went on recently about Chuck, that picture remains _damned_ weird and illustrates a host of questions remaining unanswered to this DAY! Your "real world" has real problems; embracing them does not make them go away. >As "elitist" as it may sound to some, I have a problem with some >people assuming an equal footing for their 'uninvestigated >reports' with anyone who has been put through the wringer of a >formal investigation process. And I say they ought to find out if it is the "heat" itself that will drive them out of the big kitchen and not the officious, authoritarian, and elitist "chiefs of staff" at the kitchen door. >In my own case I had to pay some at times very personal dues >while being subjected to examination. I paid out of pocket for a >complete psychological work-up. I had to ask of my friends and >family members if it was okay for someone to call and ask them >questions about me. I had to go back to places that are filled >with bad memories and dread for me because I had to show an >investigator 'where' and 'what' exactly happened to me. I had to >be _accountable_ and be willing to substantiate (as best I >could) what I was reporting. Hmmmm... No difference so far, John. >You know, as in a real, full- >fledged' investigation. I didn't come out of the woodwork and >demand to be granted the attention and credulity that someone >who has passed rigorous examination deserves. No - all _he_ did was step to the plate with the best bat he had. He's yet to get anything but pitches out of the box, spitballs, and pointed bean-balls. >Check it out. I have. >I didn't ask to go public. It was asked of me. I didn't suddenly >appear on this e-mail List and start telling abduction stories, >I was invited because Budd had presented my case for public >consideration. When I did go public, I had Budd standing at my >side ready to vouch for my basic honesty, integrity and >character as an individual. >>a-hem<< >To testify on my behalf that he had >looked into my case and me as an individual, and that he was >satisfied (as a result of his own investigations) that I was a >credible person making an honest report about what has been >happening to me and my family. You're not the only one suffering. You know that. > >Having my case presented by Budd doesn't make my report any more >true or more valid than anybody else's. No - it does not. >But, it does go a long >way toward gaining some credibility for it, with intellectually >honest people like Dave Furlotte for instance. With people who >ask simple straight forward questions about what they are being >told. No, it doesn't prove anything... but it does help. I'm sure Mr. Furlotte's a prince, seriously, but why are we having to take _your_ word for it, again? This is all great proclamation, John. But it's not signifying anything really. ...You got any meat to go with this limp watercress? >There is a difference between that, and folks who suddenly pop >up out of nowhere on an e-mail List demanding that their >(uninvestigated) reports be given equal credibility. Cry baby- >shoes all you like, it ain't going to happen. And rightfully >so. Pop out of nowhere? That's a stretch, a distortion, and another fallacy. He's been around for years and has yet to be publicly discredited by you. I'd like to have seen what he had. >Any intellectually honest and thoughtful person hearing such >reports has every right to ask, "Gee has anybody _competent_ >looked into this person or their claims?" If so, "Who is this >person? What were the results of the investigation into this >person's character?" All honest questions deserving of answers. >That's all (basically) that Dave Furlotte was saying. I'd feel better myself if Mr. Furlotte had done a little more of that investigation than was implied in his oblique state of the ufological union. >He was >making _honest_ inquiries and demanding a little accountability >on behalf of those filing such reports. Commendable really and >not 'unreasonable' in any way, shape, or form. ...Did he even talk to him on the phone? Did _you_ talk to him on the phone. Did you talk with Mr. Furlotte on the phone? "All honest questions deserving of answers," John. > >If I may, I'd like to suggest to anyone who wishes to be taken >seriously by the public and researchers, get themselves and >their cases thoroughly examined and investigated by somebody >_competent_ and experienced in the field. Perhaps these people will eventually present themselves as time goes on? Until then I have to decide who they are on my own. >There aren't many of >them, but there are a few. _Then_ when the researcher presents >them and their case to the public for consideration/scrutiny, >they will be able to enjoy the public backing and support (on >their behalf) of the investigator*, (who publicly throw their >own reputation behind them as the 'presenter' of the case) and >the individual may also enjoy what little 'credibility' the >results of having passed an investigation may provide. The preceding was pretty incomprehensible in its own right. Parsed out, you seem to be saying that you have a clear idea of what has veracity and what shall _not_ have veracity, based on _your_ estimation regarding how credibility is determined. Is that fair? That's pretty arrogant, dude. >Even then, let them know that it takes _years_ to gain the trust >and respect of your peers. Nothing is granted or guaranteed >up front. Sounds like quite a Gauntlet you would engineer. I wonder if even _you_ could get through it. >It _all_ has to be earned. No shortcuts, no jumping ahead in line. Really. we could explore that a little further, perhaps. It certainly seems that some have had to supply much less 'verification' than others have... And asking "Some" (or one) to 'prove' the reality of his experience even before a study is done, seems more than unfair. No abductee has EVER been able to substantiate his experience. Why _this_ time. This whole thing seems so tainted it defies any reasonable explanation. Is it pure politics? That's the fragrance. >Respectfully, >John Velez, *abductee So you have proclaimed, and you (not Budd, or others appealed to) have convinced me. More individuals have convinced me, also. You're my number _three_ guy, John, and you _rock_! >*Case checked out independently by investigators: Budd Hopkins >and Peter Brookesmith. (Budd's investigation was conducted over >a period of five years being the more detailed/in-depth of the >two. Because of a hectic travel schedule Peter was only able to >spend three days with me/looking into my case.) Just another appeal to authority, John, the assumption of trendy cloaks with hosts of their own unanswered questions. But I lost count of the fallacies. There was a lot of emotionalism, a lot of grand posturing, a little bit of personal attack that does not seem to have furthered the quality of your, I think I have to say conflicted, position. Appeals to authority and just plain god fearin', country lovin' folks round out a flimsy presentation that does not address the important issues raised in my post, but solidifies UpDates appearance to the rank and file (who, unlike you, I would not presume to think for) as a collection of inbred ufological 'suits' comfortable with the microphone in the cat-bird's seat with little remembrance that there but for the grace of their-deity-of-choice, go they. Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 00:33:01 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:29:12 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - McGonagle Hello List, Georgina, >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:32:59 +0100 >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:07:11 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>1. What aspect(s) of the article do you/Nick regard as >>exclusive? <snip> I have remarked on the content already in a separate post. >>2. What specifically led you/Nick to request the files relating >>to report No. 7 from the PRO, and when was that? >For some years now I have been working with former Chief of the >Defence Staff Lord Hill-Norton in attempts to secure UFO >related material from the British Government. Acquisition of >Report No7 and Top Secret DSI/JTIC minutes are part of a much >wider research process. Suffice to say, I have also been >researching non-UFO material relating to the Cold War. >The secret documents were obtained last year from the MOD and >the top secret documents were obtained early this year as a >result of requesting file numbers from the MOD. I am sorry to note that you state below that you will say no more on this aspect, because you have not adequately answered the question. It appears to me that you have tried to confuse the issue with extraneous detail (or are you suggesting that Lord Hill-Norton knew of the document and pointed you in the right direction? If not, why is his name mentioned at all?) You could also be suggesting that you came across the documents through almost randomly browsing the 9 million files stored at the PRO? You also fail to give any indication of whether you requested the documents before or after two "enterprising members of the public" published the file reference for the bulk of the documents at www.flyingsaucery.com, leaving the question open as to whether you have used their efforts toward your article without crediting them. >>3. The timing of the article may appear to some to be with the >>deliberate intention of pre-empting Andy and Dave's release of >>'Out of the shadows' - is that the case, or was this just a >>coincidence? >We've actually been researching and gathering material for quite >some time. I'm sure you must realise that an article of 5000 >plus words does not just materialise without some research >being undertaken. Add to this the pressure of business and >personal commitments, and you have your answer. There's nothing >sinister about the timing; we published when our initial >research was completed and our article was written; end of >story. In the light of your evident reluctance to credit the two "enterprising members of the public" by name in the past, and the lingering suspicion that this also applies to the UFO magazine article, it would not surprise me to find that the timing was intended as a spoiler, though I don't understand the reasons for such petty behaviour. In summary, you response does nothing to dispel any of the suspicions expressed by Andy and Dave, and inclines me to think that they are possibly correct. >>I hope this can be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction.Thank >>you for your patience with what may seem to you to be trivial >>questions, but it is important to ufology - if people become >>afraid to publish early findings in case they are pre-empted, >>information exchange will be even more severely hampered than >>it is already. >These are indeed trivial questions; we have been very patient >over the last few weeks. This is not important to ufology; what >_is_ important is the research material that we've placed in the >public domain. You will already have read my opinion of the important "research material" in the article. I maintain that the outstanding questions about the provenance behind the PRO documents used in your article are important to ufology-in a private email, I have been told that this incident has persuaded someone not to publish early findings, in case they suffer the same fate. >We are happy to discuss the content of the article but will not >respond to any further posts of this nature. >That's all we have to say on the matter. If you are sincere about your independent research, then that is your loss. All that your response has done is lend more weight to the suspicions surrounding the article being greatly influenced by the detailed research of "two enterprising members of the public". Regards, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:17:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:30:44 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:22:46 -0400 >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:10:02 -0500 >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>>From: John Vlez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:53:10 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs ><snip> >>Actually, your information is not entirely correct. There is a study >>currently underway. <snip> >Now, tell me all about that "study" you're talking about Bobbie. >But I'll tell you right now, if it violates any of the basic >standards as outlined above, don't expect any response. I'm not >going to repeat myself over and over. I have already said just >about everything I can say on the subject. Twice!! :) >John Velez I wasn't planning to tell you anything about the study I was referring to. I was merely informing you that your information is not entirely accurate. There is a study underway. Regarding your private email to me, I will be happy to respond if you'll let me know when you remove the filter in your email program that you said you were setting up to automatically trash any emails from me. I'm not going to waste my time replying if you're just going to trash it unread :) Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:17:05 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:32:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Ledger >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:41:08 -0300 >Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:09:55 -0600 >>Subject: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update >>Greetings to the Research Community: >>Wendy Connors and Bill Jones (Ohio MUFON) are very pleased to >>announce the recovery and preservation of the original taped >>interview of Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker, Jr. by the >>Pascagoula, MS Sheriff's Department. Recorded within a couple of >>hours following their abduction, this 30 minute recording was >>made without Mr. Hickson or Mr. Parker's knowledge and had not >>been known to exist to the general crypto-aeronautic community >>until now. <snip> Hi Wendy, Would you add my name to the list for the CD. Thanks, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 The Jim Merrick Incident In Canada? From: Jason Goldring <j_goldring@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:36:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:46:24 -0400 Subject: The Jim Merrick Incident In Canada? Does anyone know about the Jim Merrick incident in Victoria County (Fenelon Falls/Coboconk/Norland Area), Ontario (Laxton County... now called City of Kawartha Lakes) I would like to get more information about this fellow and possibly an email address or contact phone number. Turns out that he may have not been BS'ing a report about and entity of some shape & form around his cabin. It happened again recently, in the same area of his original report with remarkably similar characteristics. Any info would be appreciated. Jay
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO - From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:49:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:01:31 +0200 >Subject: Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO <snip> >KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- A Missouri man is drawing a lot >of attention because of a classified advertisement he placed. >Bob White of Reeds Spring, Mo., placed an ad for a >piece of a UFO. His asking price: $10 million. >White found the silver object in the early '80s in Colorado >after seeing a strange light in the sky. >White said he spent nearly $200,000 to have the two-pound >metallic object analyzed by laboratories. He said it is 80 >percent aluminum, but it also contains 30 rare earth >components and some things that cannot be identified. >White said he has already received some offers, but he would >not say for how much. If this is the same guy I'm thinking of, his website is: http://www.hardevidence.com. --Mac Tonnies, Kansas City, MO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Johnson From: Cathy Johnson <cej@idirect.com> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:16:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:53:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Johnson >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:02:24 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:30:38 +0600 >>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>Alfred's Odd Ode #361 ><snip> ><snip> >Some 'Internet hobbyists' who have not made _any_ >contributions to the field and who have no credentials >themselves, (egotistically) find it easy to insult and criticize >intelligent, experienced professionals who have >established impeccable credentials and track records. The >remarks come off as petty and blatantly disrespectful in spite >of some feeble attempts to disguise it. >I don't know, maybe I'm just 'old fashioned' but I treat >people who have _earned_ it, with the respect that is due >them. There are members of this List who should feel deeply >ashamed about the treatment they have doled out to someone >like Dick Hall. I haven't heard any apologies either. >Dick is a tremendous resource and cache of history and >information for everyone on this List. Instead of >appreciating having someone as experienced as he is around > and accessible on this List, 'some' choose to insult and to 'dis' >him. I say later for _them!_ >As for Dave Furlotte's 'My Take On It' piece on Saturday's >broadcast of SDI: >He was right on. >People have a right to demand some kind of sic accountability >when being presented with mind-bending reports from >'unknown' individuals. They have a right (and I consider it a >'responsibility') to question something before blindly >accepting it. It's called being thoughtful and critical in terms >of one's thinking. >On the same program I made the remark that, "The Internet >is like a public phone booth, anyone can drop a coin into the >slot and say anything they wish to." It is important for people >to be able to distinguish between these unknown random >callers and individuals whose lives have been subjected to >investigation and close scrutiny. John, Alfred, and List, I happen to be one of those phonebooth people. I really haven't been authenticated like some people have been. I only got two hours with Peter Brooksmith who deemed it worthy of four, maybe six chapters in his book. But, I was there. I did something. I know it wasn't much, but at least it was an opportunity for me to tell my slicked up story. What is missing in this picture is how all of this has affected me, and how I affect the people around me. Do you think it is fun to live in a world of flashbacks? Yet, it is preferable to the pain and suffering I have endured virtually throughout my life in this world. Nothing comes close to what I once knew. However hot the blood, it runs cold before me. Know that. What we make of our own experiences is entirely up to us as individuals. Whether it incorporates God, or not, or anything else for that matter, it is only a sliver of the entire makeup of conflicts and resolutions we evolved in personality to get to this present. If I happen to believe in Devil Dogs, I might say that I have reason to do just that. Perhaps it is easier to relate to than just the spiraling of photons in an abduction experience. Reality is as thin a wall as the liquid that is applied to loosen up molecules of a wall into a bedroom. There may be no proof of that, but at least a mote of fact resides in the telling. It is up to us as individuals, and as researchers alike, to try to see just what is going on in the mind of any abductee before any sort of conclusions can be made. Is there really a hope for help coming our way? Not for me today. >And there _is_ a difference. An important one. It is the >difference between the credibility that is to be granted >to a 'self-proclaimed' unknown individual and one whose >story and character have been carefully vetted by an >experienced investigator. Otherwise, why even bother going >to an investigator? Anybody with a computer and an e-mail >account can just anything they want to, any time they want to >and expect to be given credence by the listener. It just doesn't >work that way in the real world. >As "elitist" as it may sound to some, I have a problem >with some people assuming an equal footing for their >'uninvestigated reports' with anyone who has been put through >the wringer of a formal investigation process. <snip> Gee, I hope I don't fit into that category of being a Kook. I had some fun times and some bad times and just needed to tell all before the world. Flash!! (beg your pardon there). Unfortunately, e-mail came along long after my experiences. And, nothing of what I have written has sold, either. So, can't put butter on the table that way. Pretty soon, I won't need a table. I can wait, since there is nothing else I can do. Just is. Take care, for now, Cathy Johnson PS: Have you earned an eagle feather lately?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Cydonian Imperative: 04-16-02 D&M Pyramid From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:00:47 -0400 Subject: Cydonian Imperative: 04-16-02 D&M Pyramid The Cydonian Imperative 4-16-02 The D&M Pyramid Examined by Mac Tonnies (includes stereo-pair image by Chris Joseph) See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html [image] The D&M Pyramid as seen by the Mars Odyssey's THEMIS. Close examination of the new THEMIS image of the D&M Pyramid provides a long-awaited opportunity to assess the single image of the formation returned by Viking. Careful comparison reveals both consistencies and new details suggesting artificiality. Of particular interest is the nature and extent of the D&M's deformation (see previous page). There seems to be a locus of destruction on the D&M which could be the result of an impacting body from space, as suggested by reader Gerry Forster. Horever, the apparent lack of a crater (discounting the unconventional "bottomless pit" feature to the Pyramid's east) suggests that the destructive event that deformed the D&M might have been internal. Early speculation by Richard Hoagland and Dr. John Brandenburg raised the possibility that the "domed uplift" seen in the Viking photo (also visible in the significantly higher- resolution THEMIS image) is the result of "explosive penetration." Could the D&M Pyramid have been deliberately destroyed from within by some ancient sabotage or act of war? (Brandenburg, a plasma physicist and co-author, with Monica Rix Paxson, of "Dead Mars, Dying Earth," estimates that a one-kiloton nuclear explosion could account for the damage visible seen in the Viking photo, assuming the deforming event was of an artificial nature.) [image] The D&M Pyramid as seen by Viking. Unlike other formations in Cydonia, the D&M shows evidence of having been melted. The terrain around the apparent "fifth buttress" discussed in Richard Hoagland's new article is chaotic and spotted with enigmatic dark areas. This molten-looking aspect is visible in the partial image of the D&M captured by the Mars Global Surveyor in 1998 during its acquisition of the "catbox" image of the Face. Additionally, Dr. Mark Carlotto has noted that there appears to be a dark material oozing out of the area associated with the "domed uplift." This is consistent with an internal explosive event. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:15:27 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:02:59 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:27:05 +0100 >23 February 1955 was indeed the date of the Broadlands UFO >sighting. This should be clear from the main text of our >article. What you refer to is the UFO Magazine Fact File, a >series of boxes depicting information on the individuals >mentioned in our article. This was not compiled by Nick or >myself. Unfortunately the boxed material on Adamski did contain >this error. Well, I don't suppose we can expect facts from UFO Magazine! >We have described Adamski's meeting with Mountbatten in our >article. This took place in 1963 at Desmond Leslie's London >home. Also present were Lord Dowding, Brinsley Le Poer Trench >(later Lord Clancarty), Emily Crew and a colleague. Emily (now >in her 80s) was our source for this information; she kindly gave >us her notes of that period along with contacts and other >details of Adamski's 1963 visit (not to be confused with his >1959 trip). The date Emily gave for this unique meeting was 2 >June 1963.That same day Mountbatten took the party to Broadlands >to see the location of the UFO sighting. Emily was also invited >but didn't go along because she had a long journey home. Credit where it's due Georgina. If this is correct it's significant for a number of reasons which will become clear at a later date. I look forward to reading more about this and to seeing some definitive proof of the event. At least this is one thing you and Nick haven't 'gleaned' from our research! Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 EW: Monuments of Mars Author Critiques New NASA From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 02:17:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:07:51 -0400 Subject: EW: Monuments of Mars Author Critiques New NASA ------------------------------------------------------------ The Electric Warrior : Web Log April 17, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com ------------------------------------------------------------ MONUMENTS OF MARS AUTHOR CRITIQUES NEW NASA PHOTO martian enigmas photo: D&M Pyramid, Odyssey 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com/mol/ewDMPyramidOdyssey2002.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - Richard C. Hoagland, the most prominent voice behind the notion of an artificial Face on Mars, published remarks about a new NASA photograph of Cydonia to the Web, prior to a radio appearance on Art Bell's 'Coast to Coast'. In addition to discussing the new Web content, Hoagland told Bell's audience that whoever created the Martian enigmas were definitely "high-tech", possessing a technology far beyond those of primitive monument builders on Earth, a technology, as he described it, beyond our own. The title of The Enterprise Mission's new article is an oblique reference to the book 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep', a story you may know as 'Blade Runner'. In it, people have trouble telling the difference between humans and androids. The literary reference is fairly transparent: TEM is telling us NASA doesn't know the difference between natural and artificial surface features on Mars. As might have been expected, the newly photographed D&M Pyramid got special attention. As Hoagland tells it in 'The Monuments of Mars', he was originally skeptical of the Mars Face, but the existence of a pyramid had an impact on his thinking: "What were the odds against two 'terrestrial-like monuments' on such an alien planet - and in essentially the same location?" Whereas many Mars Cydonia enthusiasts focus their attention solely on the Face, the D&M Pyramid has always been a key component to Hoagland's theories. According to TEM, what they describe as a five sided pentagonal pyramid is substantiated in the new Odyssey image by a "fifth buttress" that presumably shores up the northeast face of the landform. "What I started looking for was a context," Hoagland told Art Bell. For Hoagland, that context means a similarity to Earthly monuments in Egypt. The notion helps explain Hoagland's assertion that the Mars Face is not humanly bi-symmetrical, but rather half human, half lion. TEM tells us this is reinforced by the new NASA image, because the top down photographic angle centers the 'hair-lip' feature on the 'mouth'. If you care to accept it, TEM also explains that the prominent wind direction at Cydonia also has a bearing on the appearance of the Face and Pyramid landforms. Basically, the presumed wind blows away dust and sand on the left side of those features, and piles it up on the right. It's an interesting idea, perhaps consistent with observation, but certainly difficult to prove. It's no surprise that Hoagland's conclusions about the new Cydonia photograph are consistent with the research he's conducted for almost 20 years, nor that his relentless Mars weirdness boosterism would have us believe that each new NASA image of the area provides more evidence of an ancient civilization on Mars. Don't feel bad if you're not entirely convinced of that yet. Even Hoagland admits the new NASA photo is not the one he hoped for. ------------------------------------------------------------ RELATED RESOURCES 16-Apr-02 Do Geologists Dream of Wind-Blown Sheep? http://www.enterprisemission.com/sheep.htm (TEM) - One of the most controversial objects in the entire Cydonia artificiality debate, the D&M has always been key to deciphering the correctness of the original Cydonia observations from two decades ago...This five sided symmetry not only holds up extremely well in the new image, but we can now see substantially more detail on the lower section of the damaged right hand side. We also can verify the existence of a "fifth buttress" to the northeast -- the final piece needed to complete the pentagonal form and reconstruct the object's original, undamaged shape. ------------------------------------------------------------ THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR April 17, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo ------------------------------------------------------------ The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. The content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 17 Aurora Project Behind UFO Sightings In Scotland? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:53:28 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:12:07 -0400 Subject: Aurora Project Behind UFO Sightings In Scotland? Source: The Press and Journal, Aberdeen, Sunday April 14 2002, via IndyMedia, UK, http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=3D27889 &group=3Dwebcast Stig *** LATEST U.S. STEALTH TECHNOLOGY MOVES TO WESTERN SCOTLAND by The Press and Journal, Aberdeen 9:45pm Sun Apr 14 '02 ** Soaring at 5,000 miles per hour through the night sky these unidentified flying objects could be a 21st century addition to NATO's airforce. Radar stations at Prestwick, West Freugh and RAF Buchan may have tracked their movements as they fly between secret airbases and the Norwegian Fjords, but the Ministry of Defence and the US Air Force deny they even exist. Nic Outterside investigates * ALMOST invisible to radar, the F-117 Stealth fighter is one of the most sophisticated warplanes ever built. But for seven years the US Government denied that the top- secret aircraft - nicknamed Nighthawk - existed. Then, in 1991, 40 Stealth fighters were suddenly deployed for action in the Gulf War. Ranging the night skies over Baghdad on 1,270 missions the Nighthawks struck the most heavily defended Iraqi targets to stunning effect. Now from the cloak of X-Files denial comes a Stealth successor: more powerful, blacker, faster and even more secret. Under the codename Project Aurora - which may be a wrap for several secret aircraft - the planes are classified within the US defence department's black programme - one whose existence is not admitted by the authorities. Experts claim experimental and prototype Aurora aircraft are using Scotland, the skies above the North Sea and the wilderness areas of far-Northern Europe as their testing ground. Bill Sweetman, former technical editor for Jane's Information Group and an author of three books on Stealth technology claims the areas are ideal proving ranges. "It certainly keeps them out of the eyes and ears of the US observers," he said. He claims that after 17 years the US defence department is reaching the latter stages of trialing space-age military aircraft capable of astonishing speeds. "There continues to be a huge black hole in what we know the Pentagon has spent money on," he told the Press and Journal. "In 1999 black projects accounted for =A312.1billion of USAF research expenditure - that is almost 40% of the =A332billion research and development budget." Advanced secret aircraft developed at highly classified Government facilities in the Nevada Desert almost certainly include both manned and unmanned hypersonic jets designed to perform strategic reconnaissance and other less conventional missions for the US Air Force and its NATO allies. A number of these aircraft have been seen and heard by ground- based and airborne observers in the western USA and in northern Europe during the past 10 years. Based on more than 60 eye-witness reports there appears to be at least three distinct types of vehicle: One is a "triangular-shaped quiet aircraft" observed with a fleet of Stealth fighters several times between 1989 and 1995. This may be a demonstrator or prototype of the much vaunted McDonnell Douglas A-12. Another is a high speed aeroplane characterised by a very loud, deep rumbling roar, reminiscent of heavy-lift space rockets. In flight it makes a pulsing sound and leaves a segmented vapour trail. The final contender is a high altitude jet that crosses the night sky at extremely high speed and at altitudes in excess of 50,000 feet. It is usually observed as single bright light but no engine noise or sonic boom is heard. Observations are augmented by many reports of low-pitched, rumbling sonic booms. In one seven month period a small team of observers in California logged at least 30 sonic booms believed to be produced by the same unknown aircraft. Claims have surfaced that booms from Aurora test flights are responsible for sudden avalanches in Norway and an earthquake in the Netherlands as well as unexplained radar blips, eerie noises and isolated UFO sightings in Scotland. Reporters from Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten say they have received numerous complaints of sudden bass-like booms from isolated fishing communities and farmsteads between Trondheim and Narvik, followed by sudden avalanches of snow. They say that recently released information suggests that a 1986 avalanche in the Troms area of northern Norway, which killed 16 NATO soldiers, may have been triggered by early tests of a secret supersonic jet. The P and J understands that Norwegian Government officials are now concerned about Aurora flights, damage caused by sonic booms and the lack of consultation from their US NATO allies. An Oslo-based Government spokesman said they were carrying out long-standing research into the causes of avalanches and they were aware of the concern over test flights by military aircraft from the UK. "We always receive a number of complaints from people over low- flying aircraft and sonic booms - and it is probably true that some sonic booms cause avalanches," he added. However, he refused to comment on the existence or activities of the Aurora. Dutch scientists have meanwhile blamed the secret jet for causing a sudden earth tremor which jolted the north coast of the Netherlands. A North-east RAF base recently traced a very fast radar blip across the North Sea. But when the incident was reported to RAF Buchan, superior officers denied all knowledge of it. Oceanic Air Traffic Control at Prestwick also tracked fast- moving radar blips. It was claimed by staff that a "hypersonic jet was the only rational conclusion" for the readings. Experts claim the Aurora has probably flown out of RAF Machrihanish airfield in Argyll while hi-tech tracking equipment at Benbecula, RAE West Freugh in Galloway and Fylingdales monitor its progress. There have been reports of unidentified night-time aircraft noises from Machrihanish for a number of years. But with the Kintyre base now downgraded to a care and maintenance position, experts are puzzled about the location of the Aurora's new European test base. Maryland journalist Lee Hickling has studied Aurora sightings in great detail. "The information currently available shows Scotland and the North Sea are used extensively for the testing of these aircraft," he said. Mr Hickling, who for nine years covered science and manned space for the Gannet Newspapers Washington bureau, added: "I believe it is extremely likely that the aircraft - test beds for hypersonic engine and control technology - would be unmanned, because human bodies could not stand the G forces generated by manoeuvres at hypersonic speed." But last night Bill Sweetman said high speed - such as at Mach 7 or 8 - would not exclude manned aircraft. "It is only when you manoeuvre an aircraft at that speed that G forces come into play," he said. Mr Sweetman said the development of the Aurora within the US defence department's "black projects" was a natural progression from the Stealth fighter, which first flew in 1982. "They would not have sat still for 17 years," he said. "The evidence is strong that high speed propulsion and aerodynamics are at the cutting edge of this new development and the long runways at Groom Lake (USA) and Machrihanish would be ideal to fly the plane from." He said the skeleton staff at the "care and maintenance" RAF Machrihanish would be a perfect cover for further trialing of Aurora aircraft. "One of the missions of high altitude supersonic aircraft was to operate over the North Atlantic as a reconnaissance strike system against the Soviet Northern Fleet and it would be natural to continue that test range despite the end of the cold war." The ultimate in aerodynamics the aircraft could reach anywhere in the world in three hours, he claimed. However an MoD spokesman said last night: "There are no United States Air Force prototype aircraft based at British airbases and no authorisation has been given by Her Majesty's Government to the USAF - or any other US body - to operate such aircraft within or from the United Kingdom. A spokesman for the US defence department denied any knowledge of Aurora or "Deep Black" aircraft. Mr Sweetman said it was natural for British and US military spokesman to deny the existence of the plane. "Put it this way," he said, "In 1988 the US Air Force had 50 F- 117 Stealth aircraft operating in Nevada and still denied they existed."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: A Thought Occurs - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:39:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:26:59 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Velez >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:17:37 -0500 >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:22:46 -0400 >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:10:02 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>>>From: John Vlez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:53:10 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >><snip> >>>Actually, your information is not entirely correct. There is a study >>>currently underway. ><snip> >>Now, tell me all about that "study" you're talking about Bobbie. >>But I'll tell you right now, if it violates any of the basic >>standards as outlined above, don't expect any response. I'm not >>going to repeat myself over and over. I have already said just >>about everything I can say on the subject. Twice!! :) >>John Velez >I wasn't planning to tell you anything about the study I was >referring to. I was merely informing you that your information >is not entirely accurate. There is a study underway. >Regarding your private email to me, I will be happy to respond >if you'll let me know when you remove the filter in your email >program that you said you were setting up to automatically trash >any emails from me. I'm not going to waste my time replying if >you're just going to trash it unread :) Hi Bobbie, Oops! My boo-boo! I had to set up that filter in my e-mail program to screen out all of those endearing; one paragraph, ten page long, angry, ALL CAPS, flames you were sending me privately remember? Bobbie, I don't 'arbitrarily' screen out mail addresses unless it is _junk_ mail. Your private 'communiques' to me fell into that general category and I felt 'motivated' enough to go through the hassle of setting up a filter for your address in Eudora. Something I don't do unless I _am_ motivated. You provided all the 'motivation' (and much more) than any one man could wish for. :) Besides, who would want to sit in front of a monitor and read pages long rants where I'm being cursed out? Hey, don't get me wrong, I can curse like a drunken sailor. You have no idea the stuff you hear growing up in New Yawk City public school yards! Actually when it comes to the effective deployment of expletives I'm better at it than most... I'm a born and raised New Yorker. I'm just asking, why would I want to read anything like that whether it comes from you or anybody else? (Rhetorical question. More of a suggestion for a little koan to contemplate during your next meditation session. :) I will remove the filter so that your note will not be "trashed unread." Just remember it's only "parole" Bobbie, not a "get out of jail free" card. The filter can be reinstated the moment things start to get 'foul mouthed' or 'dicey' again. Fair enough? ;) Proceeding with caution... (but trying) John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Scientists Closing In On ET's From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:39:33 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:29:08 -0400 Subject: Scientists Closing In On ET's Source: Pravda, April 12, 2002, http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/12/27556.html Stig *** 10:20 2002-04-12 SCIENTISTS SURE OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLECT=92S EXISTENCE. SO, WHERE IS IT? The idea to found "intellect brothers" in the space conquered human being, after space flights became possible. Since that time, almost every day some evidence appears of "extraterrestrial intellect=92s existence." Though, for the time being, none of them holds water. So, now most of people distrustfully consider any piece of information about extraterrestrial=92 presence on the Earth. But the distrust does not mean that people do not want to believe in it. At the moment, astronomers have found about 150 stars with planets revolving around them. However, they are mostly as big as our Jupiter. While smaller planets could not be found with up-to-date astronomic devices. Though, two British astronomers Barry Johns and Nick Sleep, The Guardian reports, proposed a new way of discovering planets. Through using computer modulation, they created mathematical models of some remote planet systems and put planets identical to the Earth to these systems. The planets were placed in favourable temperature zones -- at such a distance from the star, where the temperature is neither too high nor too low for the Earth=92s dwellers. Computer allowed to find, in which of the systems the planets could not be situated because of monster planets=92 gravitation. According to the British astronomers, the number of the discovered planets is really great. To the point, not long ago, in constellation of Ursa Major, a solar system was discovered, which is very similar to ours. The astronomers even managed to descry two planets, though they are too big to be peopled. But Barry Johns supposes this system must be necessarily investigated, "because there could be planets similar to the Earth, with life on them." The question is, how to investigate this system, because it is at a distance of 51 light years. None of up-to- date space ships can overpass this distance. To reach this planet, it should fly for several hundreds of years. Unfortunately, the method proposed by the British scientists will hardly justify human hopes. Computer calculations done by the scientists could be confirmed or refuted only with high- precision instruments, like telescopes. Though, today=92s level of technologies does not allow to create such powerful devices to investigate remote planets. So, we, probably, should wait one hundred years or two for discovering extraterrestrial life. Though, who knows, it could happen much earlier=85 Oleg Artyukov PRAVDA.Ru BBC archive photograph Translated by Vera Solovieva Read the original in Russian: http://pravda.ru/main/2002/04/11/39591.html * Copyright =A91999 by "Pravda.RU". When reproducing our materials in whole or in part, reference to Pravda.RU should be made. The opinions and views of the authors do not always coinside with the point of view of PRAVDA.Ru's editors.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:54:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:30:57 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni >From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 00:33:01 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Hello List, Georgina, <snip> >I am sorry to note that you state below that you will say no >more on this aspect.... <snip> Nothing new here and nothing of substance; simply part of the book plugging campaign from the Dave and Andy fan club Best wishes Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:54:21 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:32:51 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni <From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:07:45 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >I'm sorry, but this is not good enough. There is nothing new >here and to claim that you "published" the documents first is >not true. These were already available last year on Andy and >Dave's website. There is nothing new in your post and nothing of any substance. This just looks like more book plugging from the Dave and Andy fan club. For your information we were the first to publish the _Top_Secret_ documents (you seem to be confusing the _Top_Secret_ documents with the secret ones). We obtained the file references (and there are several) from the MOD and not from any website. Best wishes Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:55:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:36:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:24:12 +0600 >Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:02:24 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:30:38 +0600 >>>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >><snip> >That was one if your more inclusive snips, John. >>Hello Alfred, >>Warning: Lengthy post ahead. Proceed at your own risk. :) Hello Alfred, Just trying to save bandwidth! It wasn't a 'critique' or comment on the Ode. Errol hosts my website on his Virtually Strange Network so I'm always very attentive (aware) about how much bandwidth (of his) I am eating up. The habit of 'economizing' just carried over to my posts on the List. I sometimes snip long passages in favor of keeping the ones I am responding to directly. It is intended as a 'consideration' for EBK, not as an 'insult' to you or your writing. I've always been one of the Odes' series biggest fans. You know that. I just don't always agree with everything that's in em. That's what my last post was all about. I was expressing my opinion as you have now done in regard to my comments. Let's call it a 5 by 5 (even) and move on. :) Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 'The Flying Saucer Cinema' From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:00:31 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:46:23 -0400 Subject: 'The Flying Saucer Cinema' Source: Eye Magazine - Toronto http://www.eye.net/abouteye/feedback/ Stig *** Reader Feedback: The Flying Saucer Cinema Nigel Watson (valis23a@aolcom) at 08:18 on 2002/01/23 By Nigel Watson ** This brand new ebook looks at how the images and stories of spaceships and aliens have evolved on our cinema screens over the past 100 years. From the earliest days of movie making they were the ideal material for 'trick photography' and exotic adventures. After these innocent beginnings aliens were shown to be more sinister and threatening in the space operas of the 1930s and 1940s. It was not until the landmark year of 1947, when the term 'flying saucer' was coined, that the floodgates opened for issues about alien contact and intervention to be fully explored. Since then saucer films allow for exciting, frightening and thought-provoking stories that reflect worries in the real world. This guide published in Adobe Acrobat(TM) format opens up the world of cinematic UFOs and aliens so that you can enjoy and appreciate them to the full. The author of The Flying Saucer Cinema is Nigel Watson, the coauthor of Supernatural Spielberg and a regular contributor to Fortean Times and Magonia. Since 1991 he has published Talking Pictures film magazine, which is now published online at http:// www.talkingpix.co.uk. He has a degree in Film and Literature from the University of Warwick (UK) and is currently a freelance writer based in Plymouth, UK. The Flying Saucer Cinema is 26 pages long and includes exercises on every page to encourage the reader to explore and think more deeply about this intriguing area of cinema. It costs US $4.99 to download. For more details or to order a copy go to: http://www.selfhelpguides.com/display.php3?guide=1889799436 To contact the author email: VALIS23A@aol.com Telephone: 01752 347200 Check out his film and media website at: http://www.talkingpix.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: A Thought Occurs - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:26:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:50:50 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Sandow >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:38:04 -0500 >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >If abductions turned out to be psychological phenomenon, then they >could be eliminated as a part of ufology. Trim the fat, so to speak, >by process of elimination and get to the meat of the issue - the >UFO. If abductions were proven to be non-alien, then it would say >a lot about UFOs: it would say that there is no need to continue >to tie the topic of abduction with the study of UFOs. I agree. And, even more important - maybe we could find out whether aliens are or aren't abducting us! An important thing to know.... >>After that, Pritchard got out of UFO work, as far as I know. In >>part that's because he found it hard to be an MIT physicist >>engaged in abduction work. UFO buffs would call the MIT physics >>department, looking for him, which, he told me, annoyed the >>department chair. Pritchard worried, too, that he might get >>notorious for UFO work, and lose funding for his mainstream >>research. And beyond all that, the abduction research didn't >>seem to be getting anywhere. >Translation: UFO studies and related fields of investigation >need to go mainstream. If it were "socially" and "academically" >acceptable to be engaged in UFO studies and related >investigation, there would be no stigma associated with it and >no need for an MIT physicist to worry about whether he gained >notoriety in the UFO field. Doing so would not mean a >potential loss of funding. >If all of the money spent by all of the career researchers and >"crypto-whatevers" were pooled together and efforts concentrated >on making a concerted effort at investigation/research, ufology >might not be such a cottage industry. Well, of course I agree. But I'm reminded now of a song we used to sing in the antiwar movement, even before Vietnam. (I have an image of Pete Seeger, up in front of a rally with his guitar. God, this is ancient history. Makes me feel old!) Last night I had the strangest dream I ever dreamed before. I dreamed the world had all agreed To put an end to war. Of course it would be lovely for UFO research to be respectable in the mainstream. Of course I wish we'd pool our small resources. But saying these things won't make it happen. Sometimes it's good to be reminded of idealistic goals. They help us do better. Sometimes, though, it's distracting, because we waste time, energy, and even resources working on goals that can't be achieved. Or, more precisely, working on idealistic goals that ought to be achieved, but doing it in ways that won't accomplish much. To make sense of the proposal we're discussing here, we have to be practical. To say we all ought to pool our resources is fine, and likewise fine to say that ufology ought to go mainstream. But what are the first practical steps any of us ought to take? Feel free to name names. Normally, things get accomplished when someone takes an initiative. If you ask ufologists to all get together, that's wonderful, but probably won't happen. If you ask some particular ufologist to take a step aimed at bringing us together, that's more helpful - someone might do it. So who's that someone, and what's the step. I'll leave myself out. I'm not a ufologist, and don't have time to be active in the field. But I'll make one small suggestion. I mentioned a scientist who'd done some abduction work, and Kevin Randle very helpfully listed other research, actual or proposed. Someone should make one list of all the concrete research on abduction that's been done, or claimed to have been done. I've never seen one, and I'd guess that there's more (or at least a little more) than most of us know about. What it adds up to is another story, but a list would at least be a start. A couple of additions, off the top of my head, to what I previously mentioned, and what Kevin posted. William Levengood, a respectable retired plant physiologist, says - after an impressive-sounding double-blind experiment - that plant seeds placed in an abdutee's hair (don't laugh) during nights when the abductee claimed an abduction experience behaved differently, when germinated, from seeds placed in her hair on other nights. Of course, his methods need close examination, and his study ought to be repeated by someone else. And both David Jacobs and the abductees who call themselves Beth and Anna have claimed (Dave in conversation, Beth and Anne in their book) that monitoring instruments behaved strangely when they were placed near abductees. This last, of course, would be anecdotal evidence, and no substitute for a rigorous monitoring study. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Wisconsin UFO Sightings From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:00:26 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:53:10 -0400 Subject: Wisconsin UFO Sightings Source: alt.alien.visitors Stig *** From: "UFOWisconsin.com" <thestaff@ufowisconsin.com> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Wisconsin UFO sightings Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:34:43 GMT We just got back from the Ozarks UFO conference in Eureka Springs, Arkansas and updated the site. Here is a list of some new reports: April 13, 2002 in Hollister, WI http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports/r2002_0413_langlade.html April 12, 2002 in Merrimac, WI http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports/r2002_0412_sauk.html April 8, 2002 in Ripon, WI http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports/r2002_0408_fonddulac.html January 7, 1994 in Vicco, WI http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports/r1994_0107_jackson.html September 1975 in Racine, WI http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports/r1975_09xx_racine.html 1973 (no date given) in Milwaukee, WI http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports/r1973_xxxx_milwaukee.html To view all reports, visit http://www.ufowisconsin.com =================================== Your complete source for up-to-date Wisconsin UFO sightings & information: http://www.ufowisconsin.com ===================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Secrecy News -- 04/17/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:25:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:56:15 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/17/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 32 April 17, 2002 ** DOE REPORTS ON INADVERTENT DISCLOSURES ** DOE RENEGES ON COMMITMENT TO RELEASE HEU STUDY DOE REPORTS ON INADVERTENT DISCLOSURES The Department of Energy (DOE) reviewed two million pages of declassified documents at the National Archives late last year and discovered 318 pages among them containing classified nuclear weapons information, according to a new DOE report to Congress. The inadvertently disclosed information ranges in sensitivity from classified nuclear weapons design information to the locations of nuclear weapons storage depots from decades ago which, while formally classified, do not pose a proliferation hazard. An assessment of the damage that may have resulted from the disclosures was not provided in the new report. The disclosures appeared in various Defense agency and State Department documents. The documents themselves were withdrawn from public access. The latest report is the fifth in a series required by the FY 1999 Defense Authorization Act. The classified version of the report was dated November 2001. A redacted (unclassified) version of the report was published yesterday. See the text here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/inadvertent5.html The report states demurely that "those file series that _may_ contain [classified nuclear information] are being removed from public access" (emphasis added). What is left unsaid is that the ongoing hunt for inadvertent disclosures has resulted in significant disruption of public access to declassified records at the National Archives. DOE RENEGES ON COMMITMENT TO RELEASE HEU STUDY The Department of Energy (DOE) has reneged on its commitment to publish a long-awaited historical account of the production, acquisition and utilization of highly enriched uranium (HEU) from 1945 onwards. The HEU report was intended to "provide assistance to worldwide nonproliferation efforts by revealing where United States highly enriched uranium resides in the United States as well as in other nations," DOE declared in 1997. "It will also assist regulators in environmental, health, and safety matters at domestic sites where this material is stored or buried." See the DOE "commitment" which noted that "publication is scheduled in September 1997": http://www.osti.gov/html/osti/opennet/document/jan97/prcfacts.html#I11 But after years of delay, DOE now says it will not release the promised report. The decision to withhold the HEU report required some bureaucratic creativity since the document is not classified, and cannot be withheld on national security grounds. Instead, DOE officials are attempting to shoehorn it into the Freedom of Information Act exemption for "deliberative" or "pre-decisional" documents. "The requested document is a draft record that reflects the tentative views of the authors," wrote DOE FOIA Director Abel Lopez. "The opinions contained in the document are recommendatory.... Thus, the opinions expressed therein are pre- decisional and exempt from disclosure under Exemption 5 of the FOIA." See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/04/doe041002.html But that claim is nonsense, said Roger Heusser, formerly the head of DOE's Office of Nuclear and National Security Information, responsible for DOE classification and declassification policy. "The document is an historical accounting of information rather than 'recommendations'," said Mr. Heusser. "I am quite familiar with the document and signed the declassification of it." Multiple appeals of the decision to withhold the HEU report have been filed, and are likely to lead to a FOIA lawsuit. A companion report entitled "Plutonium: The First 50 Years" that was released by DOE before the current chill set in may be found here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/pu50y.html ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:59:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 03:59:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:22:27 +0100 >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:33:45 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:09:07 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman John, >>And why is Keel - whom you were >>dismissing as irrational and unreliable just a posting or so ago >>-- suddenly someone to whom we are all supposed to be >>answerable? Especially when his "data" include all kinds of >>hoaxes and otherwise dubious yarns? Do you really believe that >>the tall tales of Woody Derenberger and George Adamski, or of >>1897 "airship inventors," discredit the ETH, or tell us anything >>we need to know about it? And are you really arguing that it is >>American ufologists' - excuse me, "America's ETH ufologists'" - >>- obligation to argue their case from the worst, and not the >>best, evidence? If so, this is an unusually transparent >>debunker's ploy. >I will repeat: the point I was making, and which you seem >determined to overlook, is that much of the data in Keel's books >is replicated by accounts from other researchers. Keel then goes >on to weave fantasies and dreams from his data, and most of his >interpretation is pretty tongue in cheek. In fact sometimes I >think he's 'ribbing' us! But his first-hand accounts of the >cases he himself has investigated stand up well besides the >reports of other ufologists, and the implications of these >reports do not fit in well with the extraterrestrial theory of >UFO origins. Keel's interpretations are hardly "tongue in cheek," as I point out in my Fortean Times article. That you would think they are betrays a fundamental misunderstanding - not, I fear, your first or only fundamental misunderstanding - of who Keel is and what he's trying to communicate. During the period Keel was researching and writing all of his major books, I was quite close to him (he was actually writing me at times from West Virginia), and we had a voluminous, ongoing correspondence. Anyone who thinks his views are or were a conscious joke must be - pardon me - joking. As for the canard that early American ufologists - excuse me, "America's ETH ufologists" - edited cases to remove Keelian elements: give me, and all of us, a break. This is, not to put too fine a point on it, rubbish. While I was researching the UFO Encyclopedia series, I had access to a mass of primary documents from the early years of ufology's history. These documents included, in some quantity, both investigative reports and personal correspondence. In the latter, prominent and not-so-prominent figures in American ufology discussed a wide range of matters. The only high-strangeness case that was kept from publication by an elite ufologist was Villas-Boas's, and that was because Coral Lorenzen, who had the details from Dr. Fontes, believed that it would offend her more - her adjective - "puritanical" readers. (In late-1950s America that could not have been a small consideration.) Eventually, of course, the case - as could have been predicted - saw print in English, when FSR commenced a series on it in 1965. In point of fact, much of early ufology consisted of individuals who had a general interest in strange phenomena. Many were Forteans, and some of them were also interested in the paranormal. In those days nearly everybody read Fate magazine, which covered all sorts of weird stuff. Actually, in my observation, ufologists of the 1950s were more open to and knowledgeable about other sorts of anomalies than UFOs than their counterparts are today. They would have had no objection in principle to incorporating the highly strange into an interpretation of the UFO phenomenon. The problem was, in those days they weren't encountering much of it, unless you count early CE3s, which were freely reported, discussed, and debated. CE3s were odd by definition, and some were odd even in their own peculiar context. First-generation American ufologists' experiences of men in black - as opposed to the MIB who came along later - were the extremely dubious cases of Maury Island and Al Bender, along with the even more questionable Edgar Jarrold "mystery" and Stuart/Wilkinson affair (in both senses of the word "affair"). In retrospect, the bulk of what Gray Barker wrote in the one men-in-black book of the 1950s (They Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers, 1956) has been discredited. Beyond that, contactee writers such as Adamski and Williamson were using men in black to weave conspiracy theories, based in anti-Semitic literature, about the so-called Silence Group. No wonder sensible ufologists were sensibly suspicious of men-in-black notions. When bizarre claims came along, as they began to do in growing numbers in the mid-1960s (in 1964 NICAP's U.F.O. Investigator remarked on the sudden proliferation of close- encounter reports), even NICAP, the most conservative American UFO group of the period, conducted some remarkably open-minded, thorough investigations. I think particularly of how it handled Woody Derenberger's claims so beloved of Keel. As I read the field report Bill Weitzel (head of NICAP's Pittsburgh subcommittee, which spearheaded the inquiry) put together, I couldn't help having mixed feelings: why were these obviously intelligent guys devoting so much time, and trying so hard to be objective, about what seemed to be to be as blatant a hoax as one could imagine? Of course NICAP eventually came to the only logical conclusion about all this, but nobody - Keel's baseless slams at NICAP's work on the case aside - can accuse the organization of not giving Derenberger a full hearing. Going back to American ufology in the 1950s: The number of UFO publications, nearly all of them privately circulated to a small readership, was considerable in those days. They represented a true free market of ideas, from the severely cracked to the soberly credible. Nothing that went on got past them. It was not as if, in other words, a small, elite group held a Stalinist grip on the flow of information. If something wild was going on, _somebody_ wrote it down. (In books, that was, most notably, Harold T. Wilkins and George Hunt Williamson.) There was no shortage of mystery-mongers who would have leaped at anything stranger than ordinary. When I went through many hundreds of these periodicals (sometimes full runs of them) a few years ago, I was actively looking for high-strangeness, Keelian sort of stuff. There was very little of it there, and even that little didn't amount to anything manifestly tangible.. In my researches, the strangest story I came upon involved the New Zealand saucer buffs John Stuart and Doreen Wilkinson. The admirable Murray Bott, who knows everything there is to know about the history of Kiwi ufology, kindly sent me a fat package which included Stuart's private correspondence and the original, unedited version of the book that would be published as UFO Warning. (Sorry, John: publisher Gray Barker didn't delete the Keelian parts; he took out the sex, for fear of offending his puritanical customers.) My detailed account and analysis of the episode (UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed., pp. 834-38) is based on those primary documents. After studying them and pondering them at length, I still have no idea what to make of this perplexing, convoluted incident - even the undeniably purely human elements defy comprehension - and only a lunatic would argue that anybody's understanding of ufology needs to be radically revised because of it. This whole exchange started out of, readers will recall, a bogus assertion, belatedly claimed to be a joke, by the Pelican (whose human name, I'm sure, everybody on the List has figured out by now), that "America's ETH ufologists" are in a dither about the Mothman Prophecies film. Sad to say, the discussion has departed even farther from any demonstrable reality since then. In part this is because, John, of your apparent inability to tell when somebody is joking and when he isn't. A final point, I suppose, needs mentioning: Nobody - well, maybe hard-line CSICOPians - denies that odd, seemingly inexplicable experiences happen (however one defines "experiences" or "happen"). Honorable people disagree on their interpretation and meaning. Hoaxes also occur, and we have to be careful. As someone who's followed the UFO scene since the late 1950s, I remain unconvinced that high-strangeness (or, if you will, Keelian) phenomena and hoaxes (an unsettling number of which Keel has championed, unhumorously, as authentic interactions with extradimensional entities) have much to tell us, one way or the other, about whether the ETH is or is not valid. Unless, of course, one is arguing, as you may be, that the ETH stands or falls on the strength of the Woody Derenberger story. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: British Government and UFOs - Roberts From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:01:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 04:01:42 -0400 Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs - Roberts >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:27:10 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >>This entire debate has descended into a stream of insults >>directed at Nick Pope and myself. It will be obvious to most >>list members that this is simply part of a glorified book >>plugging exercise for Dave and Andy. Georgina, This is a poor attempt to evade a very important issue. What _is_ obvious to most list members is your failure to answer the simple and direct questions posed by Joe McGonagle, concerning the source of the documents you and Nick used in your UFO magazine article. You have attempted every distraction possible rather than providing a direct, honest answer. We believe that the source of your knowledge concerning the MOD study was he information published in The Observer and on www.flyingsaucery.com. If that is *not* the case then we challenge you to provide _documentary_ evidence that you were in possession of this document pre-dating October 2001. At least your co-author Nick Pope had the decency to credit those "two enterprising members of public" for the legwork involved in locating the DSI documents and Report No 7, a report he admitted he knew _nothing_ about before we published. As for "a stream of insults", the real insult is your decision to omit any reference or acknowledgement to the role we played in bringing these documents to public attention. We don't see why we have to make excuses for raising this issue in public, as Joe McGonagle says, it is important for UFOlogy and original work - something that will be of concern to _every_ active researcher on this list. As a direct result of this episode, we are abandoning plans we had to upload other newly-found MOD documents onto the net for free access to researchers. Others have expressed similar misgivings about the security of their own work, and for good reasons. No one objects to others using, commenting or disseminating research findings providing source is acknowledged. But it is a bad day for UFOlogy and research in general when original work is used by others without credit in the way you have done. If this seems accusatory, so be it. We believe that the simple fact of the matter is that you have sought to misrepresent your source for the Flying Saucer Working Party document for no other reason than it was discovered by researchers who do not share your views of UFO origin. Rather than bluster and prevaricate why not prove us wrong! Happy Trails Dave Clarke and Andy Roberts
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Aurora Project Behind UFO Sightings In From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:11:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:55:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Aurora Project Behind UFO Sightings In >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:53:28 +0200 >Subject: Aurora Project Behind UFO Sightings In Scotland? >Source: The Press and Journal, Aberdeen, Sunday April 14 >2002, via IndyMedia, UK, >http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=27889 >&group=webcast The URL was split up. This one works: http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=27889&group=webcast Sorry Stig ***
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Hale From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:26:00 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:57:51 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Hale >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:15:27 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs <snip> >Well, I don't suppose we can expect facts from UFO Magazine! Hi, I take it this also applies to the articles that both you and Dave have also had in (UK) UFO Magazine, over the years? Roy.. Roy Hale is Web Master of The Lost Haven http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk And Editor of: Down To Earth Magazine. Articles On the UFO Subject, Buy On Line Research CDs, FREE Downloads, Business Marketing, Web Links, Art & Culture and much more!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:02:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:59:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update - Jones >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:41:08 -0300 >Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:09:55 -0600 >>Subject: Pascagoula Abduction Research Update >>Greetings to the Research Community: >>Wendy Connors and Bill Jones (Ohio MUFON) are very pleased to >>announce the recovery and preservation of the original taped >>interview of Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker, Jr. by the >>Pascagoula, MS Sheriff's Department. Recorded within a couple of >>hours following their abduction, this 30 minute recording was >>made without Mr. Hickson or Mr. Parker's knowledge and had not >>been known to exist to the general crypto-aeronautic community >>until now. >>Copies of this CD will be made available to researchers in the >>near future and instructions on how to obtain a copy of the CD >>will be posted on the various Lists in due course. >Please add me to your list of those wanting copies of the CD. Could you please add my name to the list. Cheers Sean
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: A Thought Occurs - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:02:45 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Hamilton >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:03:56 -0400 >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Salvaille >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:26:02 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs ><snip> >>I started my abduction investigations in 1976 >>and stuck to a few good cases (good in that they were >>information rich and had some modicum of evidence) and started >>to back off involvement about 1996. >>Since my wife is one of these cases, I have had a chance to >>evaluate events with her from personal involvement. >>I have come to believe that not all her reported events are >>physical though there are physical body marks. >>I have also come to believe that not all of these are >>UFO-related. >>So, why does she have these experiences? ><snip> >In my opinion, one of the best and most objective abduction >synopsis I've read. >Your wife's experience is very interesting as you mention that >not all her experiences were UFO related and some were. >Was there any difference in the experiences and did certain body >marks relate to non-UFO related experiences also? Honestly, I am not sure. I am not always present when things happen. A few times when I was present there was classic poltergeist phenomena. >Finally, do you intend to publish anything about this case? I wrote about Pamela's case in my second book, "Alien Magic", but the book is now out of print. I am considering publishing a new revision of the book. Briefly, her experiences started around age 3. She has had encounters with typical grays (3.5' and 5'), nordic male and female, a tan gray in a black flight suit, and a reptilian entity. She has also had encounters with unusual MIBs and Air Force personnel. The AF personnel tried to convince her to cease further investigation into her encounters shortly after I came on the scene. We discovered and documented the identity of one of the AF personnel who was a flight surgeon at Edwards AFB and was receiving copies of her medical records from the Lancaster Cardiology Clinic without her authorization (1991). Her former husband witnessed balls of light that came through the house and one which decended from daylight skies to move in a circle around both of them. The most intensive part of her experiences happened in the 1991 - 1993 time frame. We have both observed UFOs while skywatching together. I seem to have a weaker link myself with the intelligence behind this phenomena thus we both had a missing time experience on March 16, 1993 off highway 375 in Nevada while spending time skywatching near the Groom Lake area. We were both surprised to see an object lift off the ground with blinding lights and swoop toward our position which was an estimated 10 miles from the object. It was a very strange night. Thanks for asking. Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:18:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:06:42 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Felder >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:39:05 EDT >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>From: John Vlez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:53:10 -0400 >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >>>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:39:26 +0000 <snip> >But I thought just such a multi-disciplinary study was underway >and had been talked about on this List. As I understand it, >there are no results yet, but the study is on going. My understanding is that this study is in the early stages. I, for one, eagerly await the results. <snip> >And, I might point out that we are still waiting for the famous >"dust bunny" research, which struck me as a good idea because it >would supply some of the physical evidence that so many of us, >me included, desire. >Whatever happened to the "dust bunny" project? I was really >hoping that would go somewhere. Just the thought of it was >innovative and intriguing, in my opinion. >I guess, what I'm trying to say is that some research is being >conducted, has been announced on this List, and yet, seems to >have passed through our filters without creating much of a >ripple. If we aren't aware of it, then I am not surprised that >main stream science has ignored us. >Which is a way of saying that we really need to get our act >together. Three cheers for Dr. Randle! I do believe he's got it :) Seriously, Kevin, I agree with you. My grandmother always said that two heads were better than one when it came time to tackle a stubborn problem. So I guess I just don't understand why there seems to be such a lack of cooperation from people who all basically profess to want the same thing. Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:24:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:13:19 -0400 Subject: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? I was doing a little reading up for a class, and came across the following reference to an alien abduction-type experience brought on by "recreational drug" use. An excerpt follows. --- Source: Recreational Drugs Information http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/dmt06.htm Initial Effects Of DMT Initial effects were felt in twenty minutes or so, building to a peak within forty-five minutes to an hour after ingestion. I wish that I could report a transcendentally ecstatic result from this experiment, but that was not to be the case. It was perhaps the most terrifying psychedelic experience that I can recall. The best metaphor that I can come up with for what I went through is that of an alien abduction. It felt as though I was being examined and probed by a cold, unemotional, foreign presence whose intentions were unclear but seemed very sinister at the time. It was very disturbing, almost like a psychic rape. --- Have there been any surveys done among people claiming abduction to determine if there is a significant number who will admit to "recreational drug" use? It would be interesting to see what percentage of abduction claimants have a history of "recreational drug" use. I would think that would be a basis for "weeding out" of any potential candidates for study on abduction. Can anyone point me in the direction of data of this nature, if it exists? Thanks :) Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Filer's Files #16-2002 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:15:51 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:28:15 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #16-2002 FILER'S FILES #16-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern April 17, 2002, Majorstar@AOL.COM. Webmaster: Chuck Warren http://www.filersfiles.com. UFO SIGHTINGS: New Hampshire lights, New Jersey cylinder, Pennsylvania disks, Maryland crescent, Florida investigation, Ohio sphere, Michigan flying triangle, Indiana orange, Illinois lights, Missouri daylight diamond, Oklahoma investigation, Colorado video, Arizona orbs, California landing, Oregon light, Canada chevron, Mexico circle, Netherlands lights, and Australia silvery beings. Aircraft Carrier's encounter with UFO in the Caribbean. Sighting reports of extra-terrestrials US NAVY SAILORS SEE UFO OVER CRUISE SHIP CARIBBEAN - Jeff Sainio reports that "a well-respected co-worker of mine told me his sighting: He was serving on a Navy aircraft carrier in August 1971 in the Caribbean. (Exact location was not revealed to the crew) After his shift ended at midnight, he headed to a rear deck (where smoking was allowed) for his nicotine fix, along with some 20 other smokers. Disturbed plankton left a ghostly phosphorescent glow in the ship's wake. They passed a pleasure cruise ship, close enough to hear the band playing, probably under a mile distant. The carrier was blacked-out, while the cruise ship was brightly lit. They then noticed a cigar-shaped object, about half the cruise ship length (therefore about 500 feet) tracking above the cruise ship. They could only notice the object because it blotted out the stars. As the ships crossed and the tail end of the object was visible, a "power pack" became visible, resembling a jet afterburner. As the sailors watched in amazement, the object quickly moved backwards an angle of about 90 degrees, then back to its original position, in the span of a few seconds. This was repeated several times, then the object shot skyward till it disappeared. The sailors had the impression their carrier wasn't noticed until this action. The event was reported to the duty officer, who interviewed each witness separately. No secrecy order was given, and nothing resulted from the reports. My co- worker remembered other witness' names for potential corroboration, although I have no reason to disbelieve him." Thanks to Jeff Sainio Jeffrey.Sainio@qg.com Editor's Note: I have seen the phosphorescent glow in the sea near Puerto Rico. I also have several reports from people who claim to have been abducted from cruise ships. One professional engineer was very upset since he was abducted off the fantail of the ship at night. He just could not believe this could happen to him. He had been drinking, but the experience had quickly sobered him up and he remembered exact details of the inside of the UFO. His concept of the universe had been suddenly changed and he was having difficulty accepting that we were not alone in the universe. After he accepted this as a reality he went to work designing the UFO propulsion system that he claimed to understand. It was based on advanced electrical systems. EXTRA TERRESTRIAL SIGHTING REPORTS UFONAUTS, OID: HUMANOIDS, "GREYS," LITTLE MEN, DWARFS: Larry Hatch review alien reports. Robot, RBT isanything that looks or acts robotic. PSH: Pseudo-human! "UFO Nordics" Think of Travis Walton. MIB: Men in Black. Humans? PSH on out-calls? MON: Monsters of all types. GNT: Giants. FIG: Vague figures, shadows moving behind a portholes. Actual form indiscernible NOC: No "UFO occupant" seen or reported. I add here one last field, "ALL" which is the number of *U* records for each decade or continent, whether entities were noted or not. Out of some 17,850+ sightings events in the *U* data, here is how they break down by decades: OID RBT PSH MIB MON GNT FIG NOC ALL pre-1940 25 2 33 6 0 3 24 369 442 1940s 23 1 11 1 2 1 6 998 1040 1950s 165! 12 89 6 21 7 65 4061 4730 1960s 167 16 96 9 28 16 119 2760 3137 1970s 222 46 170 7 49 30 214 3774 4378 1980s 83 10 39 5 11 11 54 1514 1692 1990s-02 80 6 17 3 18 12 45 2603 2790 Pre-1940s cases go back to antiquity in these data. About 16.5% of those listed reports involve entities, and no doubt some of those are unverifiable. The 1940s are notable for the low percentage of entity sightings, about 4% of events. This changes in the 1950s with over 14% of events involving some sort of "UFONAUTS." From 1 or 2 robot cases, we jump to 12. One odd thing: MON (monsters) blossomed on the silver screen in the 1930s or so, but stayed out of the UFO literature for those years. What few monsters I list make their best showing in the 1970s! I have no idea why, but that was the best decade for PSH (fake humans) as well. What sort of "monsters" get into the filtered (stodgy) *U* database? Many of these reports have wild titles but indicate people are seeing strange creatures such as: Bird-man hovers over barn, Mummy OIDS take observer for a free ride, Hairy OID with owl's eyes, Fat ugly being w/helmet in garden, Numerous hairy critters in France, S. America etc, Bird-men rush car in France, Terrifying Oid unintelligible in Gabon, Africa. "Mothman" listings, Humanoids with crocodile skin, Huge hairy robot w/mechanical gait, Weird catfish with fins and feathers, Strange ball-figure emerges from UFO, 7' Bigfoot vanishes in a flash! Hairy hooved figure walks mechanically! Frightened looking ape- man," Mummy's" exit UFO and abduct 2 people, Silhouette like frog's head seen in UFO window, and Campers chased by 7-foot monsters:3 fingers-no thumb. One last note about Monsters. I compared continents for this database, started during the cold war. North America lists 49 monster sightings out of some 8541 or about 0,574 percent, a rather low monster coefficient. South America lists 19 monster events from some 1170 entries, a more encouraging 1.62 percent, or three times the rate of North America. Western Europe shows 177 monster listings out of 5385, for the grand prize, some 3.28 percent of all listings, six times the rate for North America! "Oceania" (mostly data from Australia/NZ) ranks lowest, 5/1154 = 0.433%. Thanks to Larry Hatch, http://www.larryhatch.net NEW HAMPSHIRE BRIGHT GOLD LIGHT The witness indicates the craft was a big bright gold light that moved from one place in the sky to another in a blink of an eye at 6:54 PM, on March 28, 2002. The witness whose name is Gorham was coming home from his friends home, when his Mom and he saw a big gold bright star. It seemed like it was a plane that was flying low, but then it disappeared. After a few seconds it came back in the same spot and then flew to a different part of the sky in a blink of an eye. It had little red and blue lights, but I'm sure it wasn't a plane or helicopter because it was so high up with such a huge size for the altitude. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC http://ufocenter.com NEW JERSEY BLACK CYLINDER DIVES MANSFIELD -- On March 24, 2002, at 7:40 AM, the witness was traveling north on Route 68 approaching Route 206, when something caught his eye about 45 degrees above the horizon. He reported, "I first noticed a contrail that was very distant, but the morning sky was absolutely clear with no clouds and an open sky." What was unusual and attracted my attention immediately, was that the contrail was in a vertical position, heading downward and ahead of the contrail. The object looked like a flying telephone pole leading the contrail. It was black or dark brown and was descending to Earth slowly. The contrail appeared short in contrast to the telephone pole-like object but was dissipating at the rear as contrails do. I watched this object for several minutes and continued on my way as it became obscured by a nearby row of trees. It did not go in any direction but downward. I hope someone else saw it but nothing was reported in the news. I 'm 75 years old, very credible, and a retired law-enforcement officer. I have never seen a UFO before and frankly, disbelieve most of the stories I have heard. But this one is real. Thanks to Al PENNSYLVANIA DISKS AND CIRCULAR LIGHTS DOYLESTOWN -- On March 19, 2002, at about 1:00 AM three discs appeared over the Courthouse and hovered silently for ten minutes then quickly sped away leaving a trail of eerie white light pointing to the constellation of Ursa Minor. COATESVILLE -- The witness was looking at Jupiter through his telescope on April 1, 2002, when a white dot came into view at 8:00 PM. The white dot met with another white dot that was moving at the same speed. The second dot flew across the sky and cut right in front of the first. There were now two unknown dots flying across the sky and little after that they disappeared. EBENSBURG -- I was renting some video's on March 30th, the clerk told me four people the night before (29th) had sighted a UFO in the sky above the parking lot. She said the lights were revolving in a circular pattern. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC http://ufocenter.com MARYLAND CRESCENT ANNAPOLIS -- The witness was on his balcony at 10:35 PM, watching some flights of local and commercial aircraft with a slightly overcast sky with high haze but some stars were visible including the Big Dipper. He says, "I saw a distinct crescent shaped form, moving west on April 2, 2002, there was no light, erratic movement or change, simply a thin cloud-like "C" shape moving across the sky. Had I not been in a reclining posture, I would not have seen it. The form went by rapidly, but not so fast that I didn't have time to comprehend what was happening and concentrate on the object. It seemed a "black" object was moving across the sky and creating a pressure zone ahead of its path. FLORIDA SIGHTINGS OVIEDO -- The witness spotted two small sphere shaped metallic craft that were zigzagging while flying quickly through the air. It was late morning/early afternoon on March 21, 2002, when my Mom and I looked out the sliding glass door to see two shinny metallic whitish spheres zip by. There was no time to grab a camera since the objects were going so fast and were about half to a mile away. I ran outside to get a better look, but as I opened the door a strange faint sound filled my ears. I was exited but the phone rang ten seconds after they appeared and my mother ran to answer. In a matter of 30 seconds or less the two zigzagging craft were gone. DELTONA -- Michael Hitt reports, "My mother drove the family down to my grandparents on July 15, 1969, to watch the Apollo 11 space launch. We were staying overnight so I went to bed, and was looking out the window at the clear sky at Pegasus. I observed a reddish colored point of light appear from one of the stars. At first I thought it was a comet as it moved quickly northwest. The object as bright as the stars, quickly changed course and flew back in the opposite direction flying in a zigzagging pattern. Michael started yelling and his two oldest sisters, his Mom and grand Mom all came to the window and observed the erratic flight. The object started moving up and down and the light turned off. The next morning was the Apollo 11 launch. Five persons saw the strange flying object. Thanks to Michael D. Hitt and Tom Sheets of MUFONGA OHIO SPHERE CINCINNATI -- On March 20, 2002, we spotted several spherical objects that moved in straight lines, and also hovered in place for several seconds at about 9:40 PM. The witness spotted a sphere, that was switching from a silver to dark green color, and once in a while reddish. My coworker spotted several others with the main one heading west, then back east. They hovered in place for several seconds and went up through the clouds out of sight. They moved in very straight lines. MUFON of Ohio State Meeting: Saturday, May 4, 2002 , 12:00 noon to 5:00 PM, at 1205 E. Main St. Emergency Room of Sheriff's Office, Ashland Ohio. The keynote speaker will be Dan Wright, investigator and abduction researcher. Dan will focus on how people who have experienced multiple alien abductions struggle to incorporate those disturbing events into their daily lives. All are welcome. Questions or information: RLEE@NEO.R.R.COM MICHIGAN TRIANGLE WATERFORD -- On March 19, 2002, yellow and red lights were observed flying about 200 feet in the air for about three minutes at 8:05 AM. They then disappeared. The witness didn't know if there was an effect on the ground probably a Close Encounter of the third kind. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director of NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com INDIANA BRIGHT ORANGE UFO SEEN CHARLESTOWN -- On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 7:20 p.m., Gary S. was at his home in Charlestown, Indiana (population 5,993) when he "went out to look at the comet. It was twilight, and I noticed a bright orange light just above the horizon. At first I thought it was a planet with the sunlight reflecting off its atmosphere. Then, after a few minutes, it started moving in a west-northwest direction. I thought it was pretty strange, because it was moving so quickly--too quickly for a planet--and it was moving in the wrong direction to be a satellite. Also, planets and satellites do not stay in one spot for five minutes and then start moving." Gary added that the object "was orange, it appeared round, and it was as big around as a pencil lead in diameter at arm's length." Charlestown, Ind. is on Highway 62 about 15 miles (25 kilometers) northeast of Louisville, Kentucky. Thanks to UFO Roundup Vol. 8, #15, 4/9/02 Editor, Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup ILLINOIS SHAPE CHANGING LIGHTS WHEATON -- The witness was watching the sunset on March 27, 2002, when he saw two strange orange lights slowly approach each other on a deliberate collision course. Just before the crash they stopped, and both turned into perfect orange lines, each one half of a centimeter in length. I was awe struck by the two lights that they were not moving at all, or at least not flying at plane like speeds to any degree). The strangest part about this was the fact the together formed this---------->( _ _ ), parallel line on a perfect diagonal. They flew in formation for thirty seconds and then the lines disintegrated back into orange lights and continued on their paths without colliding, though getting EXTREMELY close to hitting each other. The lights continued to move along their straight courses until both ran into a smaller cloud never to return. GREENFIELD -- The witness went to lock his door on March 21, 2002, and glanced out the door window at 11:12 PM, and saw a slow moving UFO with two very bright lights. It was very bright like a planet on a clear night except that it had two bright lights side by side and was moving slowly. The witness states, "I woke my husband up and he saw it, at first he thought it was a planet until he noticed it was moving." I thought I had time to get my camcorder, but it was gone by the time I got outside. There was a strange hovering sound and then nothing. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director of NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com MISSOURI DAYLIGHT FLYING DIAMOND SHAPE COLUMBIA -- April 1, 2002, a small metallic sphere was spotted flying slowly north in broad daylight at 10:50 AM, at a constant velocity and trajectory. It seemed to change colors as its position changed, due to sunlight reflection. At first I thought it was a bird, but I estimate it was 1/2 mile away and about six feet in diameter. The trajectory was unchanged by the wind. ST. LOUIS - The witness reports seeing a ship in the shape of a diamond at 5:30 PM, flying over St. Louis City where I live on March 28, 2002. The object had two blinking lights on both sides and it was surrounded by a fog of some sort. It stopped in mind flight then took off straight up. Thanks to NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com OKLAHOMA INVESTIGATION DETERMINES IT'S A REAL UFO LAWTON - Investigator Jim Hickman reports on the Flying Triangle-MUFON Case #1-774 that took place on March 11, 2002. Jim received a sighting report from "Joe W." taken near Lawton with a fairly strange photo attached. Dr. Bruce Maccabee, agreed to conduct the photo analysis and asks what could this craft have been? It certainly doesn't seem to be any military device or any type of object normally in the sky. Internally lighted blimps seem like very strange objects at night, but they have a distinctive shape. (There was a rash of blimp sightings and videos back in the early 1990s, so we have video "data" on the types of images they make...nothing like this.) Hence, unless someone has a better idea, I would have to classify this as a True UFO (TRUFO), which might be some sort of Alien Flying Craft (AFC) (or two such craft)? I met with Bruce and heard his excellent talk at Pat Marcatillio's conference in New Jersey. You can read our full report at: http://brumac.8k.com/LawtonTriangle/LawtonTriangle.html. Thanks to Jim Hickman jim@thehickmanreport.com MUFON Research Specialist for Media Operations WYOMING FIFTEEN LIGHTS IN FLYING TRIANGLE LARAMIE -- On April 4, 2002, a cluster of approximately 15 lights appeared and fanned out into a V shape while flying overhead Laramie at 7:45 PM. The witness claims, "This is the third time I have seen the flying triangle, " Two years ago, within a two week span, I saw a similar thing and thought it was weird but did not report it. He said, "Tonight I saw what appeared to be fifteen lights in a clustered shape in the sky, not far enough away to be stars but about as far as an aircraft might fly." The cluster changed shape as I looked towards it, and fanned out into a V shape. It continued to fly straight ahead and I looked away. Thanks to NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com. ARIZONA AMBER ORBS THAT GLOW BRIGHT, DISAPPEAR, AND REAPPEAR. QUARTZITE-The witness saw a very bright circular light with a rounded dark object behind it appeared, moving northeast, and then disappeared on March 20, 2002. It was low in the sky and moving horizontally at 11:30 PM, then quickly veered upwards. In back of the bright light we could see a dark rounded shape. The sky was very clear that night and we are in a very rural area with no city lights. Then the bright light vanished into nothing. There was no sound and either the object was very large or very low in the sky. There was a great deal of light movement activity in the sky afterwards for over an hour. Lights moving vertically, zigzagging, steady lights, rapidly blinking lights, disappearing lights, but they were not nearly as big as the first one we saw. We are both semiretired professionals. PHOENIX -- The object was traveling at high speed from the south heading north then made a sharp turn upward and disappeared on March 20, 2002. At 8:50 PM, I observed a round very bright object in the western sky below two stars under the moon. The object was traveling at high speed from the south heading north then made a sharp turn upward and disappeared. The way it disappeared was really the strange part it was like the thing hit hyper drive, traveled what looked like a short distance upward at about a 75 degree angle and it was gone Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC www.ufocenter.com CALIFORNIA DAYTIME CYLINDER AND CHEVRON UFOs SANTA MONICA -- An associate of mine observed a cylinder shaped object hovering high in the clear blue skies over at 4:22 PM, on March 18, 2002, at about 2500 feet altitude. He works outside all day parking cars so I suggested he get a video camera and catch some UFOs and he did. He caught a cylinder shaped tube like object high in the sky. The object made turns and sent out some kind of green energy or color on half of it. The object was completely white in color. APPLE VALLEY -- On March 29, 2002, two witnesses saw a Chevron shaped craft the in desert sky. The witness states, "My son and I were heading south on Kiowa Road around 2:45-3:00 PM, still plenty of daylight when I looked up in the sky and saw a strange reflection, like from a mirror in the sun. The craft was Chevron shaped and light in color. The top was more of a white color and the bottom portion was shinny metal. I told my son to look at the UFO. Then it just vanished. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director NUFORC www.ufocenter.com OREGON BRIGHT RED LIGHT GRESHAM -- The witness noticed an extremely bright RED light in the southern sky on March 30, 2002, that had a bright steady glow hovering at 11:00 PM. He called two witnesses from inside the house to come out and watch. They both spotted the object and watched as it slowly began to drift east in the sky. It was three times larger than Jupiter. One witness grabbed the telescope and tried to get it into view to no avail. As we were watching it slowly faded into a pinpoint, then came back big and bright again. Finally after a few more minutes it just disappeared by fading into a pinpoint and then it was just gone. Thanks to NUFORC CANADA CHEVRON NEWMARKET, ONTARIO -- On March 27, 2002, a "V" shaped orange/red thing in sky was moving slowly in the distance at 6:00 PM. The witness says, "We saw a boomerang shaped object in the sky behind our house just above the tree line. It was slowly traveling away from us but seemed as though it was descending from the atmosphere." It was an orange/red "v" shaped and the apex of the "v" seemed to glow the brightest. COOMBS, BC -- The witness lives in the woods and was taking out her dog on a dark overcast night with no lights around at 12:20 AM. She reports, "When I stepped out the door on March 29, 2002, I couldn't help but notice a bright yellow orange circle moving very slow from west to east just above me about a mile up, but below the clouds. Suddenly it stopped for about 15 seconds, so I ran in the house and grabbed my camera and took 3 or 4 pictures before it turned north and moved away very slowly. All of a sudden sparks shot from it. It stayed in place for another 10 seconds as I talked to my brother on the phone telling him and describing what it was doing and then it just disappeared. MEXICO CIRCLE FALLS THEN STOPS PUERTO PENASCO -- The witnesses were camping on the beach on March 31, 2002, looking at what they thought was a shooting star falling from the sky over the ocean. Suddenly it stopped and hovered. The witnesses could see it was a circle with small changing colors of red, blue, white and moving rapidly around from side to side and up and down. Then it disappeared out of our view over the ocean 9:00 PM. NETHERLANDS BRIGHT CIRCLE WITH DARK CENTER AMSTERDAM -- The witness an interdisciplinary artist looked outside from a balconyd noticed an airplane flying above the city at night that seemed different because it had a glare at times wide around itself. The glare would shrink rapidly, although not completely disappearing. It stood still for about one minute and a half then it started moving slowly westward. As it broadened in shape the center of it would turn dark as if hallow or empty. In fact at a point it was so large that it seemed like it had stopped and went into shining again, like it were a star pulsing. It was evident this was not a star as it hung immobile there in the darkness. It enlarged in shape, still keeping a formidable and very bright light all around itself. After two minutes the object shrunk again, became a bright point in the sky and then begun moving farther westward, slowly. AUSTRALIA THREE SILVERY BEINGS SPOTTED AUSTRALIA'S TERRITORY OUTBACK -- UFO sightings have been made almost nightly in Australia's Outback during the past month. People claim to have seen colored lights in the sky, cigar- shaped and hat-like objects moving erratically and a spate or wave of triangular-shaped craft. One woman even claims she was approached by three silvery creatures after a triangle-shaped craft landed in a paddock. Lou Farkis, a travel lodge manager, told there had been many sightings by workers on the Alice Springs to Darwin railway. He said: "There are sightings here all the time, but in the last month they have been seen almost nightly. "About five years ago we had a landing just 10 kilometers west of here every night for 28 days in a row. One guy filmed it and a TV channel bought the film from him." Mr. Farkis says another worker inadvertently photographed a UFO while taking pictures of work at a nearby bridge. "When he got the photograph of a bridge girder developed in Darwin, there was an object, like a big, black ball, in the background." http://www.news.com.au. An Alice Springs woman was driving home last month when she saw a light in a paddock 30 kilometers south of Wycliffe. "She saw a triangular-shaped craft and then three silvery beings came out of the craft and walked towards her - it was then that she panicked and drove off." April 11, 2002, Thanks to Mysteries Phenomena UFOs ROSWELL MUSEUM SPEAKER On May 11, 2002, George Filer will be speaking at the Roswell Museum about his experience in chasing UFOs while in the Air Force and about the crash at Fort Dix/McGuire AFB on January 18, 1978. the so called Roswell of the East. This little known case is very similar to the story at Roswell, NM. Don't miss this presentation. MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL for $35 per year by contacting MUFONHQ@aol.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the files on their Web Sites provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the official MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. Caution, most of these are initial reports and require further investigation. Regards, George A. Filer In Key West
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Rolfe From: Chris Rolfe <astratech@supanet.com> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:00:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:32:28 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Rolfe >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:21:58 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs <snip> >One possibility is that these were published to divert attention >away from Clarke and Robert's efforts in this regard and the >"publication" is _not_ exclusive because they are already >available on the internet, see: >http://www.flyingsaucery.com >Far more people will have looked at their site than the 10,000 >people that read UFO Mag (UK). >I'm interested in your remark that the "British Establishment" >was involved in this. What you actually mean is that a handful >of qualified people with a good track record in military and >scientific matters looked into UFO reports for a brief time. >That does NOT equate to the (whole, or part of) "british >establishment" being involved, or in a cover-up. It is a bit >naughty to leap from RV Jones, Tizard and friends to the veiled >suggestion that there was more going on. Dear All on the list, Firstly Clarke, and Roberts must be praised for their efforts in getting the documents released, but I think it is important to have these documents releaed to the public in general. It does not matter how it is done, or by who, only that all forms of media be used whether it be internet, books, magazines, newspapers, etc. It is good that UFO Magazine has published these documents, at a cost to then nodoubt, as I know from authours such as Nick Redfern, that they have to pay the British PRO somewhere in the region of =A360:00 to publish any documents in books. One must realise that not everyone has access to the internet, so they would not have heard of Clarke and Roberts' Website, so would not have access to the documents. And mant people do not realise that these documents are available for public viewing at the PRO, and don't froget to obtain copies of the documenst cost about 60p per sheet. I did some research on another matter not connected with UFO's, and it cost about =A340:00 for a copy of the documents. Where do you think that money comes from? Out of my own pocket. Like nearly all UFO Resarchers I do not receive any grants fro my research. The point I am getting at is, that the public has a right to know, and in the end it does not really matter who discovered the documnets, the fact is that they have been brought to peoples attention which is more important than self ego. Addmittedly it would have been better if Bruni and Pope had mentioned the fact that Roberts and Clarke had the documents released throught their efforts. So what if UFO Magazine (UK) only have 10,000 readers. That's 10,000 more people who were made aware of the documents exsistence. And not all of those readers are reserachers like us, and are members of the public, many of whom do not have accsess to the internet. So let's stop bickering about who did what, when and where and concentrate on getting the information out as best we can to the general populace, by any means necessary. No wonder we are not allways taken seriously by outsiders, and are treated at "and finally" item at the end of a news bulletin. hey only have to look at the way some so called resarchers carry on bickering and back stabbing each other. We are in the 21 Century, so let's leave all the prejudices behind with hte last Century, and get down to a more serious side of Ufology, no matter where in the World you live. Chris Rolfe UFO Monitors East Kent Kent, England
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: British Government and UFOs - Bruni From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:26:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:58:19 -0400 Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs - Bruni >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:01:03 +0100 >Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs >What _is_ obvious to most list members is your failure to answer >the simple and direct questions posed by Joe McGonagle, >concerning the source of the documents you and Nick used in your >UFO magazine article. >You have attempted every distraction possible rather than >providing a direct, honest answer. Andy, I am sure you will appreciate that the posts from Joe et al, were in fact a series of insults, and the questions posed were based on preconceived and mistaken ideas that we had stolen your research for our article. In spite of the insults we have answered these questions in previous posts, and will do so yet again, and we hope this will be the end of it because we are very busy with other matters. I obtained the secret documents from the MOD as part of my ongoing research into the UFO subject. I also obtained the file numbers of the top secret documents from the MOD and Nick Pope and I obtained these and other documents from the PRO. Regarding the article, which your colleagues seem to dismiss, we did not steal any of this from your research. We have done our own and all our sources are credited. The purpose of the article was to link Establishment figures with the UFO subject, and our research is ongoing in this area. We will be doing a full presentation at the UFO Magazine Conference in September, when we will reveal further information. It is true that we disagree with your debunking tactics, especially those of your colleague David Clarke, but this had nothing to do with our decision to publish when we did. We will not respond to questions which we consider insulting. As with your post on Adamski, however, any sensible questions concerning our article will of course be answered. All the best Georgina
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:05:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:01:27 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Bruni >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:15:27 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs Andy >>We have described Adamski's meeting with Mountbatten in our >>article. This took place in 1963 at Desmond Leslie's London >>home. Also present were Lord Dowding, Brinsley Le Poer Trench >>(later Lord Clancarty), Emily Crew and a colleague. Emily (now >>in her 80s) was our source for this information; she kindly gave >>us her notes of that period along with contacts and other >>details of Adamski's 1963 visit (not to be confused with his >>1959 trip). The date Emily gave for this unique meeting was 2 >>June 1963.That same day Mountbatten took the party to Broadlands >>to see the location of the UFO sighting. Emily was also invited >>but didn't go along because she had a long journey home. >At least this is one thing you and Nick haven't 'gleaned' from our >research! We gleaned nothing from your research. The article is based on our own research. Isn't it time you accepted this Andy. Best wishes Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: The Jim Merrick Incident In Canada? - Goldring From: Jason Goldring <j_goldring@sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:09:51 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:09:44 -0400 Subject: Re: The Jim Merrick Incident In Canada? - Goldring >From: Jason Goldring <j_goldring@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:36:57 -0400 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: The Jim Merrick Incident In Canada? Pretty much all I can find out about the Jim Merrick Incident has been posted on my personal website at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/j_goldring I believe that there was a fellow who frequented this List that had more information about this event. Frank Delkaz rings a bell..... If you're out there, please drop me a line. Jay
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 16 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:21:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:01:16 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 16 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 7, Number 16 April 16, 2002 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ THE XENDRA MYSTERY It was supposed to be a nice, simple three-day UFO seminar, with people relaxing at the Rio Cipreses National Park near Rancagua, Chile and listening to three lectures by prominent South American ufologists. But then the "blue arch" showed up and hovered motionless in the sky. Twenty-four conference participants walked beneath the arch...and vanished. Such is "the Xendra mystery", which triggered a furious round of denials and counter denials last week. It all started at the end of February 2002 when Sixto Paz, a ufologist from Peru, visited Quintero, Chile. In an interview with Terra Chile, Paz "announced that a very significant event that would include extraterrestrial contact would happen in Chile at the end of March or the beginning of April." On Friday, March 29, 2002, the International Congress of Extraterrestrial Contact opened at the Rio Cipreses park. Peruvian ufologist and contactee Sixto Paz was one of the keynote speakers. According to Chilean ufologist Camilo Valdivieto, "The expectation for such an event grew ever greater, particularly during the night of Saturday, March 30 (2002), when many eyewitnesses saw several lights in the sky." According to another eyewitness, "They were as bright as giant light bulbs." The conference participants watched from their tents on the campground, and Paz reportedly hinted that a "Xendra" (pronounced Shenn-drah--J.T.) would appear. "These types of UFO sightings assured us that something was going to happen," Valdivieto said, "During the previous occasions when the contact took place, the people included in the teleportation were suddenly aware of the interdimensional gateway or Xendra. They somehow learned that through this door, they would have managed to establish contact with extraterrestrial beings." "On Sunday (March 31, 2002) at around noon, 24 persons in three groups entered a dimensional gateway that appeared by itself over the terrain. It was a kind of dome, a luminous archway measuring four by four meters (429 square feet--J.T.) They (the participants) lost their materiality without disappearing completely. Upon entering, they met several (alien) characters who waited within and received information," said Valdivieto, 28, himself a Chilean ufologist and eyewitness to the event. "According to Valdivieto, the contact experience was 'dimensional. I can't say it was physical like shaking someone's hand, but it was as though we crossed (the threshold) into a different reality.'" Valdivieto "claimed that he did not cross the doorway or 'Xendra' himself because he wanted to be a witness to the phenomenon." The 24 participants were "all professionals, college students of high intellectual levels, mostly Chileans," and some were members of Grupo Rama, a New Age association. However, Eduardo Fouri, an investigator for Chile's Centro de Fenomenos Aereos Anomalos (Center for Anomalous Aerial Phenomena--J.T.), contradicted Valdivieto's story, adding that he himself "had participated in the event" at Rio Cipreses "and had seen absolutely nothing." "Everyone was eager to have an experience and, on the last day, Sixto Paz said that a blue arch was forming in the air," Fouri said, "I went to look and could see no such blue arch. Seven Chileans were selected to cross through this 'Xendra' that was forming. The truth is, I went to look and I didn't see anyone dematerializing into thin air." But then, in a surprising twist, CEFAA itself disavowed Fouri's statement. Gustavo Rodriguez, national Secretary of CEFAA, "explained that the opinion was that of an external collaborator and that it did not represent the committee's opinion." "We do not have an opinion in this regard," Rodriguez said, "First, because we lack information. Second, we were never invited to the meeting. And third, Sr. Sixto Paz never contacted us. What appeared in the newspapers was the opinion of an external collaborator." Rodriguez also "took advantage of the opportunity to make clear that CEFAA is not an agency of the Fuerzas Aereas de Chile (FACh or Chilean Air Force--J.T.) but of the Oficina General de Aeronautica Civil (General Office of Civil Aeronautics--J.T.) Rancagua is 120 kilometers (72 miles) south of Santiago de Chile, the national capital. Concerning what actually happened at the Rio Cipreses campsite on Easter Sunday 2002, the controversy continues. (See the Chilean newspaper Las Ultimas Noticias for April 4, 2002, "FACh discounts alleged UFO experience." Muchas gracias a Dr. Virgilio Sanchez Ocedo, Juan Guillermo Aguilera, Marco Reynoso, Jaime Ferrer y Scott Corrales, autor de los libros Chupacabras and Other Mysteries y Forbidden Mexico, para esas noticias.) CHUPACABRAS STRIKE TWICE IN CENTRAL CHILE Hard on the heels of the Xendra controversy came reports of two Chupacabra attacks in Chile, one of which was an assault on a human. On Monday, April 8, 2002, "an alleged Chupacabra left its footprints in a henhouse" in Santa Clara, a barrio (neighborhood) of Talcahuano, a coastal town located 350 kilometers (210 miles) south-southwest of Santiago de Chile, the national capital. "The news about the supposed apparition spread controversy through the region." "In recent days, several chicken cages and henhouses have been partially destroyed in Santa Clara, and along with them, several chickens." "Despite the silence of the local authorities, the evidence is clearly there. Hernan Pino, one of the villagers, stated that several officers of the Second Regional Police and many neighbors arrived in the area because they are concerned about the gruesome events that have recently occurred." "According to the local residents, Talcahuano had never witnessed cases involving mutilations of domestic animals. They expressed concern because they are unable to determine what caused the deaths of these animals." "Referring to the presence of the Chupacabras in the north, particularly in Calama and its surroundings, one neighbor stated, 'We have heard of these things and how they happen often in those communities. But we always thought it was just wild dogs involved. However, after seeing these horrendous mutilations, after learning how the creature is able to break into matallic fences and henhouses built with steel, we are convinced that it is not a dog.'" On Tuesday, April 9, 2002, workers at the La Escondida copper mine, located 230 kilometers (138 miles) south of Antofagasta, "were frightened by reports of a Chupacabra attack on an employee. The attack took place a few weeks ago on a cold night at about 3 a.m." "The worker, it was said, walked toward a (cargo) container used as a cellar, as he was looking for a spare part. Suddenly, he was attacked by a beast from behind, causing several wounds to his body and leaving him in a state of shock." "Terrified, he began to run, screaming for help. He was finally able to reach two other employees, who were able to see in the dark shadows of the warehouse what they described as 'a Chupacabra.'" "The storekeeper received medical attention, and it is said that he and the two other workers have refused to go back to work" at the mine, which is owned by the BSK division of Codelco-Chile. However, according to Scott Corrales and Jaime Ferrer, there is no truth to the report that Local #15 of the Union de Trabadores Mineros de Chile had called a wildcat strike because the miners were concerned about Chupacabras in the underground tunnels. (Muchas gracias a Dr. Virgilio Sanchez Ocejo, Mario Andrade, Scott Corrales y Jaime Ferrer para esas noticias.) UFOs ACTIVE IN MEXICO CITY On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 6:30 p.m., Mexican ufologist Ana Luisa Cid, her mother Sra. Maria Isabel Fernandez and other family members were riding in their car in the Villa de Guadalupe section of Mexico City "when the spotted an oval sphere the color of gold. According to Sra. Cid, the UFO remained stationary in the sky for several minutes," as commercial aircraft passed beneath the object. "'Afterward, the OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO--J.T.) departed at great speed to the north,' said Sra. Fernandez." On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 7:15 p.m., Mexican ufologist Pedro Hernandez "captured on video a UFO which emitted a strong white light, cruising at high velocity from west to east over Mexico City. Twenty minutes later, at 7:50 p.m., another large UFO, 'of a bold tomato red color,' was captured by Hernandez's video camera in the vicinity of Mount Popocatepetl," a lofty stratovolcano 60 kilometers (36 miles) southeast of Mexico City. "The UFO emitted a brilliant white light from its front before it completely lost itself in the darkening eastern horizon," Hernandez reported. (See NotiOVNI for April 7, 2002. Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz para esas informaciones.) THREE SILVER SPHERES SEEN OVER MELBOURNE AND ST. KILDA IN AUSTRALIA On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 10:12 a.m., a young woman, who prefers to remain anonymous, claims that she "saw three objects, circular, bright silver white, flying over eastern Melbourne and St. Kilda" in Australia's state of Victoria. "The first one appeared and 'darted' up in a curve," she reported, "As this occurred, a second silver object shot down in an arc leading upward from the horizon. The third object appeared in the same way but arced downward. All three objects were at least 20 miles (32 kilometers) away, by my estimate of the cloud banks they were moving through. I am very interested to know if there were any other reports at this time in this area." (Many thanks to John Hayes for forwarding this report.) FOUR ORANGE UFOS SIGHTED AT MOUNT ISA, QUEENSLAND On Monday, April 15, 2002, at about 2 a.m., E.P. "first noticed the UFOs in front and high above me." He was at his home in Mount Isa, a small city in Australia's state of Queensland located about 750 kilometers (450 miles) northwest of Brisbane. E.P. described the UFOs as "four dull orange dots flying roughly north, small dots with a soft glow around the outside, zigzagging a little and changing places. Looked up and saw them in front of and above me and watched while they flew away. Time taken till they were out of sight was approximately 15 to 20 seconds, indicating a great speed. Hard to tell how high but high. My best guess would be 10,000 to 20,000 feet (3,000 to 6,000 meters)." (Email Form Report) TRIANGULAR UFOs SEEN ON FLORIDA'S GULF COAST Triangular UFOs were seen at night last week at two locations on Florida's Gulf of Mexico shoreline. The first sighting took place on Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 10:30 p.m., in Naples, Florida (population 20,976). Eyewitness Victor White reported, "I was looking up at the Orion constellation (facing west) when I noticed that something was blocking my view. I saw this large, very dark, boomerang-shaped craft moving slowly north at the intersection of Highway 75 and Vanderbilt Road. It had small, very dim, white lights on the tips of its wings. It was very dark and you could never have noticed it if one really didn't look. It made no sound." "It could not have been a jet because it moved too slow and couldn't have been a hang-glider because it moved much faster than any engine-type plane, and it was way too large." (Email Form Report) The second sighting took place on Friday, April 12, 2002, at 1:30 a.m., in Gulf Breeze, Florida (population 5,665), a town famous for its many UFO sightings between 1988 and 1993. Eyewitness Brett D. reported, "The UFO approached from the north. I stepped out of my vehicle to go inside my home after going out with a friend. I looked into the sky, as I always do, and noticed a triangular shape coming towards me. It then passed directly over my head and disappeared into the southern sky" over the Gulf of Mexico. Brett described the UFO as "black, triangular, three lights that were visible. One light at the tip of each triangle. It was about 250 feet (75 meters) above ground." (Email Form Report) Naples, Fla. is on I-75, also known as "Alligator Alley," approximately 102 miles (163 kilometers) west of Fort Lauderdale. Gulf Breeze, Fla. is in the northwest corner of the state, located about 200 miles (320 kilometers) west of Tallahassee, the state capital. FLYING TRIANGLE MAKES AN APPEARANCE IN MICHIGAN On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, J.P. "was sitting in my living room on the second floor of my two-story house" in Commerce Township, Michigan, and "I was looking out our window, which is 10 by 15 feet (3 by 4.5 meters), and I noticed lights in the eastern sky." "The lights, five in total, were in a V-shape. I have seen just about every kind of plane in the sky, but this was no plane. The lights were set up on this craft with two on each side and one in the center." "The V was flying in the same manner as migratory birds do. The object was flying roughly 150 to 200 feet (45 to 60 meters) above the ground. There was no noise to be heard. I had the window open. I couldn't make out a structure (wings, cockpit-- J.P.) even though the moon was out. The object without any indication turned (suddenly) as if on a lazy susan and started off towards the southwest. The whole experience had only lasted about 90 seconds." (Email Form Report) THE SPHINX OF AQUILONIA!? A MYSTERY IN FRANCE In the south of France is a curious landform called Monte Sainte-Victoire, which overlooks the city of Aix-en- Provence. This mountain, which appears in 12 oil paintings completed by the celebrated artist Paul Cezanne, has now become the focus of a keen debate in the New Age community. Namely, is the mountain a badly-eroded Sphinx, similar to the one in Giza? "On a hill to the north of Aix there is an archaeological site known as Entremont dating from a pre- Roman period. Its inhabitants were Celto-Ligurians, and this site was the capital of a tribe the Romans called the Salyens." "Here archaeologists have found 'traces of an advanced civilization with shops, warehouses and workshops and also a large building through to be a shrine.' The settlement was located on the end of a rocky peak facing (Monte) Sainte- Victoire, which was sacred for them, for they identified it with their wind god Vintour." The mountain was sacred to Cezanne, too. According to Meyer Schapiro, the artist "identified with it as the ancients with a holy mountain on which they set the dwelling or birthplace of a god." According to writer William Glyn-Jones, "One unavoidable conclusion to be made about this particular view of the mountain: it looks like a sphinx." "With extended forepaws, well-developed chest muscles, arched back, well-defined head and even raised haunches, the likeness to a feline is uncanny, and upon closer examination, we discover something even more extraordinary..Zooming into a photograph taken just before an August sunset, we can see, exactly where it should be, a truly colossal feline face." Glyn-Jones continues, "Oddly enough, a theory has already been put forward by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval that there may once have been a second Sphinx. They also suggest that the Sphinx (in Giza, Egypt), being of far greater antiquity than generally recognized, originally had a lion's face, and that a pharoah of a much later period saw fit to have his own mug carved out of the sandstone." "The name of the Sphinx is Hor-em-Ahket, and scholars have translated this as Horus of the Horizon, and I've also seen it as Horus of the Two Horizons. Horus was a name of the sun god, not to be confused with Horus, the sun of Isis and Osiris. As a sun god, he was god of the two horizons, namely the east of sunrise and the west of sunset." "'The doors of the sky are thrown open at dawn for Horus of the East,' say the Pyramid Texts, and the Giza sphinx has its face lit by the rays of dawn. But what about the second horizon, that of the west?" "Hancock and Bauval have gone as far as to suggest that there was originally a second Sphinx facing west, and they draw attention to Egyptian depictions of two sphinxes facing in opposite directions in The Keeper of Genesis." "Could it be that the guardian of the western horizon was the Provence Sphinx at the western end of the Mediterranean, whose face is made visible by the rays of the setting sun? The Akeru, twin lions seated back-to- back with the sun's disk supported between them, formed an important motif in Egyptian culture." (Editor's Comment: True enough. I've seen a photograph of two small back-to-back Sphinxes at Luxor.) "Evidence has come to light suggesting that in 'prehistory' there was a strong link between Egypt and the Magdalenian culture which flourished in southern France prior to 9,500 B.C." In addition, "The Magdalenians are certainly known for hyper- realistic depictions of wildlife in their cave art, and in that era France was home to the likes of rhino, mammoths and wild cats such as lions." "During the last Ice Age, the Mediterranean was much shallower than it is today, as the oceans' water was locked up in two-mile high (3,000-meter) ice sheets. In the last three million years, there have actually been about 36 ice ages (glaciations--J.T.) and if the Mediterranean was dry during any of these (My old geology professor, Dr. Fellows,said it was--J.T.) then we have an explanation for the link between Egypt and the south of France. The Nile could have flowed along the bottom of the (Mediterranean) basin before joining with the Rhone (River) and exiting into the Atlantic via the straits of Gibraltar. Egypt would then simply have been upstream." It is also possible that the Magdalenians, led by a prehistoric counterpart of Gutzon Borglum (the sculptor who carved Mount Rushmore in South Dakota during the 1930s--J.T.), chiseled Monte Sainte-Victoire into a second Sphinx. As New Age writer Robert Charroux points out, the Magdalenians were more advanced than people think. In The Mysteries of the Andes, Charroux wrote, "The Magdalenian, the period of Lascaux, Altamira and Lussac-les-Chateaux, is said to have been at the end of what prehistorians call the most recent ice age. Since they supposedly lived in an 'ice age' it might be assumed that they were warmly dressed in furs. But not at all: they wore hats, jackets, trousers, socks, shoes, belts and robes...Some of them had carefully combed hair, others had 'crew cuts' and some wore moustaches and goatees, all of which shows an esthetic concern that is hard to reconcile with the conventional view of them as cave dwellers, half-human and half-animal." French prehistorian Stephane Lwoff has published sketches of Magdalenian III people from the walls of La Marche cave at Lussac-les-Chateaux. These include a "bald, bearded Magdalenian man" who "looks more like a philosopher or an orator than a club-wielding brute;" a prehistoric princess who looks like Britney Spears; and a Magdalenian woman sitting on a bench. Of her, Lwoff wrote, "With what looks to us like a sailor's waterproof hat on her head, this woman is completely dressed. There appears to be a pocket on the right leg of her trousers, over her thigh. A sole is clearly visible under her foot." (Editor's Comment: I've seen Mme. Lwoff's sketch. The Magdalenian woman's garb is quite similar to the clothing worn by peasant women in the Dordogne Valley as recently as 1789.) Strangest of all, the novel Hour of the Dragon (retitled Conan the Conqueror in 1950) by Robert E. Howard contains a fleeting reference to a Sphinx is "Poitain, the southernmost province of Aquilonia," now the south of France. Forced into exile and beginning a long quest to find a talisman that will enable him to defeat the evil wizard Xaltotun, Conan reins in his mount and sees a silent Sphinx on the horizon. (Editor's Note: Aquilonia was Robert E. Howard's made-up name for the France of his "Hyborian Age," about the same time fame as the Magdalenian period. Where he got the notion of a Sphinx in southern France, only Crom knows.) "In the last years of the Twentieth Century, a new discovery was made near Avignon , also in southwest France (i.e. the same region as Monte Sainte-Victorie) The Chauvet cave complex is as awesome as the one at Lascaux, in fact even more so. It is also 13,000 years older, having been dated to between 29,700 to 32,400 years ago. Its impressive artwork includes studies of the faces of lions, as well as bears, rhinoceroses, and a total of 14 types of animals, including an owl. The lion's face shown reveals a great sensitivity, reminiscent of the face on Sainte- Victoire." Perhaps it's time to consider what was previously thought to be unthinkable--that some sort of Bronze Age- type civilization existed in Europe before the last Pleistocene glaciation over 10,000 years ago. (See Atlantis Rising Number 33 for May-June 2002, "The Sphinx of Aix-en-Provence" by William Glyn-Jones, pages 27, 28, 63 and 64. Also The Mysteries of the Andes by Robert Charroux, Avon Books, New York, N.Y. 1977, pages 82 and 84.) GIGANTIC ANT COLONY FOUND IN EUROPE "A super-colony of ants has been discovered, stretching thousands of miles from the Italian Riviera along the (Mediterranean) coastline to northwest Spain." "It's the largest cooperative unit ever recorded, according to Swiss, French and Danish scientists, whose findings appear in Tuesday's (April 16, 2002) issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences." "The 3,600-mile (5,700-kilometer) colony consists of billions of Argentine ants living in millions of nests that cooperate with one another." "Normally, ants from different nests fight. (Kind of like homo sapiens --J.T.) But the researchers concluded that ants in the supercolony were all close enough genetically to recognize one another, despite being from different nests with different queens." "Cooperating allows the colonies to develop at much higher densities than normally would occur, eliminating about 90 percent of other types of ants that live near them, said Laurent Keller of the University of Lausanne, Switzerland." (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for April 16, 2002, "Scientists find huge ant colony stretching from Italy to Spain," page 4A.) READER FEEDBACK: MYSTERY SOLVED--THE ROSARIO UFO Concerning the giant "transparent sphere" UFO seen over Rosario, Argentina two weeks ago (See UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 15 for April 9, 2002, "Giant UFOs reported by hundreds in Argentina," page 2), space sciences author James E. Oberg writes, "Please forward this to the folks in Argentina who are still baffled by the prosaic but still amazing artificial phenomenon." "For more than 20 years, a certain type of Russian space launch has regularly caused UFO sightings in Chile and Argentina. The booster blasts off from Plesetsk, north of Moscow, makes half an orbit, and then, as it crosses central Chile, it fires its rocket stage again to send the payload into a higher elliptical orbit over the northern hemisphere (the so-called Molniya orbit- -J.O.). The last stage then vents its excess propellant." "When this occurs, just after sunset local (Chile) time, a large nebulous sphere is seen moving through the skies over Argentina, Uruguay and even southern Brazil. I first wrote about this in 1983 in Fate magazine that discussed such examples as June 14, 1980 and October 31, 1982, but even today UFO chroniclers still overlook the prosaic explanation and report such sightings as true UFOs." Jim Oberg also provided the actual text of the news release which proves that a Russian Molniya rocket was launched at that time. "Text of report by Russian news agency RIA: Moscow, 2 April (2002) A Molniya-M booster carrying a (Russian) Ministry of Defense satellite was launched from Plesetsk State Experimental Cosmodrome at 0207 Moscow (2207 GMT) time on 2 April, RIA-Novosti correspondent was told at the Russian Space Troops news service. The launch was carried out by the troops unit." The full text of Jim Oberg's 1983 article can be found at http://www.debunker.com/texts/giant_ufo.html. (Editor's Note: When it's 2:07 a.m. in Moscow on April 2, 2002, adjusting for the intervening time zones, the corresponding moment is 6:07 p.m. on April 1, 2002 in Buenos Aires. Or two hours before the people of the Rosario region saw the phenomenon in the evening sky. Obviously, the ejected propellant from the Molniya-M rocket caused the "giant transparent sphere." I guess we can mark this one--Case Closed.) From the UFO Files... 1897: A UFO LANDS IN EASTERN TEXAS Continuing our look back at the first great UFO flap in American history, UFO Roundup presents another actual newspaper article from 105 years ago. This one is from the Houston, Texas Post of April 26, 1897. "Josserand: Considerable excitement prevails at this writing in this unusually quiet village of Josserand, caused by a visit of the noted airship, which has been at so many points of late." "Mr. Frank Nichols, a prominent farmer living about two miles east of here (i.e. in rural Trinity County, Texas--J.T.), and a man of unquestioned veracity, was awakened night before last (April 24, 1897) near the hour of twelve by a whirring noise similar to that made by machinery. Upon looking out, he was startled, beholding brilliant lights streaming from a ponderous vessel of strange proportions, which rested upon the ground in his cornfield." "Having read the despatches, published in the Post of the noted aerial navigators, the truth at once flashed over him that he was one of the fortunate ones and with all the bravery of Priam at the siege of Troy, Mr. Nichols started out to investigate." "Before reaching the strange midnight visitor, he was accosted by two men with buckets who asked permission to draw water from his well. Thinking he might be entertaining heavenly visitors instead of earthly mortals, permission was readily granted." "Mr. Nichols was kindly invited to accompany them to the ship. He conversed freely with the crew, composed of six or eight individuals about the ship. The machinery was so complicated that in his short interview he could gain no knowledge of its workings. However, one of the crew told him the problem of aerial navigation had been solved." "The ship or car is built of a newly-discovered material that has the property of self-sustenance in the air, and the motive power is highly condensed electricity. He was informed that five of these ships were built at a small town in Iowa. Soon the invention will be given to the public. An immense stock company is now being formed and within the next year (1898) the machines will be in general use." "Mr. Nichols lives at Josserand, Trinity County, Texas, and will convince any incredulous one by showing the place where the ship rested." Trinity County is about 90 miles (154 kilometers) north of Houston. (See the Houston Post for April 26, 1897. Also the book Passport to Magonia by Jacques Vallee, Contemporary Books, Chicago, Illinois, 1993, pages 145 and 146.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:24:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:22:47 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Morris >From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:26:00 +0100 >>From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:15:27 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs ><snip> >>Well, I don't suppose we can expect facts from UFO Magazine! >I take it this also applies to the articles that both you and >Dave have also had in (UK) UFO Magazine, over the years? Roy You ought to purchase our video from our Conference on Saturday regarding the truth about Government secrecy and UFOs. Forget what others have published, see the real truth behind it all. Our Conference is Saturday in Runcorn which is probably too far for you to come but you are missing a good day Eric Morris BUFOSC VMAUFO@cs.com bufosc@mviva.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:32:11 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:26:35 -0400 Subject: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info Greetings to the List Members: Arrangements have been made with Steven Kaeser to post the audio file of the Hickson/Parker interview on a site that you may go to to download the entire 30 minute interview. As soon as Steven receives the CD, he will upload it and we'll post the link you can go to for downloading on UFO UpDates. Hopefully, by having the CD file downloadable, it will be virtually free to anyone desiring a copy. Notice: Please remember that although I have enhanced the recording to remove extraneous background noise, etc., it came from a substandard recording and the original tape was severely deteriorated. It is listenable, but I suggest that you will need to listen to it several times in order for your ears to attenuate and you may want to experiment with adjusting the bass and treble on your equipment to find the best levels for you. Although this recording is being made for free downloading by the public, it must be remembered that it is Copyrighted by Wendy Connors and William Jones with All Rights Reserved. It is to be used for educational and personal research purposes only. You may make a copy for friends, but you do not have permission to market (sell) this recording. If you feel that you cannot live without a copy of the CD itself, or you do not have the ability to download and make a CD copy for yourself, I will make a copy and mail it to you. Cost will be $10 (USD) to cover postage, case, mailer, label and replenishment of my supplies for orders sent within the continental United States. $15 (USD) for all other countries. Copies will be supplied free of charge to CUFOS, FUFOR, NICAP website, UFO Project, UHR, P-47, SHG, UFO History Project, etc. Orders and payment can be sent to: Wendy Connors P.O. Box 8552 Albuquerque, NM 87198 Thank You, Wendy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:09:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:29:11 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts >From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:26:00 +0100 >I take it this also applies to the articles that both you and >Dave have also had in (UK) UFO Magazine, over the years? Do keep up Roy - I have never had an article in UFO Magazine! Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:13:29 +0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:32:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Lehmberg >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:55:50 -0400 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:24:12 +0600 >>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:02:24 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:30:38 +0600 >>>>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>>Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>><snip> >>That was one if your more inclusive snips, John. >>>Hello Alfred, >>>Warning: Lengthy post ahead. Proceed at your own risk. :) >Hello Alfred, >Just trying to save bandwidth! It wasn't a 'critique' or comment >on the Ode. Gawd! ...Just wish I'd get one of _those_ (I'd have been shickled tinkless!)! But what I'm talking about is very seldom critiqued or commented on, so, that's obviously not the problem here. >Errol hosts my website on his Virtually Strange >Network so I'm always very attentive (aware) about how much >bandwidth (of his) I am eating up. Snippage is not the problem, John, it's the lack of _discussion_ on the snippage replaced by artful-dodger appeals to coherency (masking reluctance to address foundational issues, gripes, and concerns) that's so bothersome, frustrating, and depressing. >The habit of 'economizing' >just carried over to my posts on the List. I sometimes snip long >passages in favor of keeping the ones I am responding to >directly. It is intended as a 'consideration' for EBK, not as an >'insult' to you or your writing. No insult such as has been described ever _remotely_ occurred to me, John. Moreover, no-one ever has to worry about insulting _me_, I'm eminently insult-able. I can have fun poked at me, I can be the butt of the occasional joke, or I can be roasted and parodied... I'm not _too_ easily wounded. I'll concede a point or two, too. >I've always been one of the Odes' series biggest fans. You know >that. I do, John. You're the first guy that heard what I was saying in cyberspace, didn't write me off as a pretentious cyber-loon, max-zoom dweeb, or public whacko and (ironically!) found a way to include me in your sector of the known universe... I have to wonder, though, if I'd make your cut if I appeared on the scene today... >I just don't always agree with everything that's in em. What!?! Turn yourself in for an immediate punitive pee-pee whacking with the Sister's yardstick! This transgression shall not be allowed! Prepare to do battle! Bailiff!!! [g] >That's what my last post was all about. >>a-hem<< >I was expressing my >opinion as you have now done in regard to my comments. All I've ever said is that we were both on the same side of the aggregate struggle, and that together we were more than the sum of our aggregate parts. That's true a lot more often than it's not. One thing I've had to internalize over the years is that it's not always _me_ that's going to have the good idea [g]. Also, demonstrated to me over and over, is that it is a richness of open forthcoming-ness leading to fairer play which precipitates the truly open ended wonders of our present age. You, busily passionate about pouring a bucket of water on anything which does not have your stamp of, even committed, approval, does not provide for a rich enough diversity, tastes a little flat, and seems minus a little of the 'art' and 'music' _any_ enterprise has to have to be effective, useful, lasting, and satisfying. Moreover, pandering to a mainstream that opposes you in spirit is just a demonstration that you are _not_ aware that it is shining you on! It has that "receding evidentiary horizon (ECREE)" 'thang' that _it_ provides the only definition for, and evidence that is produced in support of the ufological 'obvious' by you or Mr. Hall (or anybody else) is never going to capture it. As far as a hijacked mainstream is concerned (?), you are track-dogs chasing the mainstreams electric rabbit. You're not _meant_ to shake that reality in your teeth, that 'mainstream' ceases to be if you do... What's the alternative? Well, what did the Blacks and other minorities do against injustice, infidelity, and canted playing fields? What have women done? What have Jews done. What have gay people done? All GREAT strides in the last fifty years. Civil action, activism, organization, and BECOME (re-capture) the mainstream? Abby Hoffman would have _killed_ to have the internet, forgetting that he assisted, obliquely, in making it happen... Proactive activity, fomented by efficacious thinkers (creative sociophiles) and transmitted by artists and writers to an abused, *truth* hungry, rank and file... I'm not necessarily putting myself very high in any of these categories. But I do aspire to them, as I'm sure you do. >Let's call it a 5 by 5 (even) and move on. :) That's what synergy is all about, dude! Open _your_ arms. Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: bduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Hall, Reed From: Reed Hall <Tanaleaf9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:36:53 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:30:07 -0400 Subject: Re: bduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Hall, Reed >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >Date: Wed, 17 Apr >2002 20:24:00 -0500 >Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:13:19 ->0400 >Subject: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >I was doing a little reading up for a class, and came across >the following reference to an alien abduction-type >experience brought on by "recreational drug" use. An excerpt >follows. <snip> On a related note, take a look at: http://diseyes.lycaeum.org/fresh/mantis.htm for a number of drug-induced experiences with seemingly- intelligent mantis-like entities. The consistency of reported encounters with such specific entities during such experiences certainly is food for thought. A quote from the top of the above-referenced page: "Preying Mantis Entity Reports "This is an informal collection of tales regarding the strangest of possibilites- encounters with praying-mantis like entities which occur after ingesting enteogenic compounds. Why is this so common? Nobody seems to mention spiders or grasshoppers, always mantids! There is not enough inforamtion here to draw any conclusions, but i believe there is enough to demonstrate something weird and heavy is going on in the human mind. "I also call your attention to McKenna's _True Hallucinations_ where he describes a somewhat hostile encounter with "pirate mantids" his wife endured." Interesting, huh? Makes one wonder whether certain psychoactive compounds don't simply cause "mere hallucinations" but perhaps open perceptual doorways which are normally closed -- except during such extraordinary circumstances as taking compounds like DMT, or in the throes of whatever is behind the abduction phenom? Who knows? Maybe taking DMT and related chemicals in fact allows *us* to go visit *them* (on *their* own turf?) - Reed Hall www.ufointerviews.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:17:00 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:32:18 -0400 Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs - Roberts >From: Chris Rolfe <astratech@supanet.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:00:12 +0100 >Subject: Re: The British Government & UFOs >Firstly Clarke, and Roberts must be praised for their efforts in >getting the documents released, but I think it is important to >have these documents releaed to the public in general. We very much agree Chris. Hence why we posted them on the internet and made the public aware of them via that and an article in the Observer. >It is good that UFO Magazine has published these documents, at a >cost to then nodoubt, as I know from authours such as Nick >Redfern, that they have to pay the British PRO somewhere in the >region of =A360:00 to publish any documents in books. A damn sight more than that when it comes to books as well! >Addmittedly it would have been better if Bruni and Pope had >mentioned the fact that Roberts and Clarke had the documents >leased throught their efforts. The crux of the matter Chris. As Pope and Bruni were _only_ aware of these documents because we hassled the MOD to find and release them to us, it would have been courteous to credit us. But, and simply because, we are vociferous critics of Pope and Bruni's brand of 'ufology-lite' they chose not to and have now got themselves in situation where they've had to lie about their source of the documents. >So what if UFO Magazine (UK) only have 10,000 readers. That's >10,000 more people who were made aware of the documents >exsistence. And not all of those readers are reserachers like >us, and are members of the public, many of whom do not have >accsess to the internet. So let's stop bickering about who did >what, when and where and concentrate on getting the information >out as best we can to the general populace, by any means >necessary. No wonder we are not allways taken seriously by >outsiders, and are treated at "and finally" item at the end of a >news bulletin. hey only have to look at the way some so called >resarchers carry on bickering and back stabbing each other. We >are in the 21 Century, so let's leave all the prejudices behind >with hte last Century, and get down to a more serious side of >Ufology, no matter where in the World you live. Commendable sentiments with which I agree. But when people are so trivial they cannot bear to mention other researchers' names or credited them with information they themselves go on to use it's time people spoke out. Happy Trails, Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:22:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:37:40 -0400 Subject: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? I have been asked to post the following important statement by Philip Mantle and Tim Matthews: Thursday 18th April 2002 As a result of recent and renewed interest in the 'Alien Autopsy' film engendered by the publication of new evidence in UFO Magazine (UK and USA) and publications in France and Russia, a new witness has come forward who claims to have seen film footage from an incident relating specifically to the AA scenario. The witness says he saw the footage in the 1950s and was shown it by his father who, it is claimed, filmed the incident, parts of which Ray Santilli purchased later on. We have some intriguing detail on this man's father, his military record, serial/rank number and so on. It remains to be seen exactly where this will lead but it just goes to show that investigations are never entirely complete. We will be discussing all this and more at the BUFOSC Conference in Runcorn, Cheshire, this Saturday, 20th April. Thank you. Philip Mantle & Tim Matthews
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 At Least A Billion 'Earths'? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:34:57 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:40:37 -0400 Subject: At Least A Billion 'Earths'? Source: The Independent (UK), 10 April 2002, http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=3D283413 Stig *** There could be at least a billion 'Earths' out there, say scientists By Steve Connor Science Editor 10 April 2002 ** The chances of an Earth-like planet circling a distant star are far higher than previously thought, astronomers say. They have calculated in a study of physical conditions needed for extra- terrestrial life to thrive that more than one billion habitable planets could exist in our own galaxy, each with a sufficiently stable orbit around a nearby sun to support the evolution of life. A computer study of a solar system similar to ours has found small, rocky planets similar to Earth are likely to survive the gravitational disturbances of larger planets that could potentially throw small planets into deep space. Astronomers have detected more than 70 "exoplanets" in orbit around other stars but all of them are thought to be hot "giants" too close to their own suns to support life. Two astronomers from the Open University have estimated the chances of an Earth- like planet existing in the critical habitable region from a star where the temperatures are neither too hot nor too cold. This "Goldilocks zone" is critical to ensure that water exists in liquid form -- believed to be one of the prerequisites for life. Barrie Jones and Nick Sleep concentrated on a nearby star, 47 Ursae Majoris, which is known to have two giant planets in orbit and is most similar to our solar system. Professor Jones said: "Although we do not yet have the capability to detect 'tiddlers' like the Earth, we can establish theoretically which of the exoplanetary systems are most likely to have an 'Earth'. Professor Jones, who presents the findings today to the National Astronomy Meeting in Bristol, said there was great potential for life in space. "There could be at least a billion 'Earths' in the Milky Way and lots more if we find systems like ours," he said. ** =A9 2002 Independent Digital (UK) Ltd
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: A Thought Occurs - Salvaille From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:40:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:43:01 -0400 Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs - Salvaille >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:26:47 -0400 >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:38:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: A Thought Occurs <snip> >>If all of the money spent by all of the career researchers and >>"crypto-whatevers" were pooled together and efforts concentrated >>on making a concerted effort at investigation/research, ufology >>might not be such a cottage industry. >Well, of course I agree. But I'm reminded now of a song we used >to sing in the antiwar movement, even before Vietnam. (I have an >image of Pete Seeger, up in front of a rally with his guitar. >God, this is ancient history. Makes me feel old!) >Last night I had the strangest dream >I ever dreamed before. >I dreamed the world had all agreed >To put an end to war. <snip> Well, the anti-war movement did stop the Vietnam conflict, didn't it? <snip> >To make sense of the proposal we're discussing here, we have to >be practical. To say we all ought to pool our resources is fine, >and likewise fine to say that ufology ought to go mainstream. >But what are the first practical steps any of us ought to take? >Feel free to name names. Normally, things get accomplished when >someone takes an initiative. If you ask ufologists to all get >together, that's wonderful, but probably won't happen. If you >ask some particular ufologist to take a step aimed at bringing >us together, that's more helpful - someone might do it. So who's >that someone, and what's the step. <snip> OK. Get all the following people. In alphabetical order: Jan Aldrich, Jerome Clark, Wendy Connors, Stanton Friedman, Barry Greenwood, Richard Hall, Bruce Maccabee, Kevin Randle, David Rudiak, Brad Sparks. No abductologist, eh? None whatsoever if you want to succeed. To have ufology go mainstream, you need to: 1. Sell it to credible media. 2. Sell it to the Congress. To the media: in the form of a documentary; to the Congress: in the form of a report. Soap vendors never ask you if you want to buy their product, they ask you if you want cleaner clothes. Thus, the general idea is not to prove the existence of UFOs, but to address the significance and the implication of _their_ presence here. Why are they here? What does it mean? Why didn't we establish contact with them. One approach would be the lessons of history about the superior culture meeting a less-developed one. Don't be afraid to throw in the destinies of the conquered. In this respect, dig out the best known cases (20 or so), which will demonstrate your thesis of superior technology: incredible performances and maneuverability, stealth capacity, etc. The theme: clash of civilizations and its possible consequences on us. They are far superior to us ("here's the demonstration") and this is why the governments are so reluctant to recognize their existence. Here you can take advantage of all the UFO loonies and the UFO cults around the planet. Use them to support your thesis of problematic civilization clashes - a fear partly justifying the cover-up. They don't discredit the UFO principle anymore, they confirm it. The tricky part is the last one: why the disclosure if this should cause so much mayhem? Well: we got to know. Mankind's destiny on a 6 billion+ growing population is the stars. Consider also that possible contact could unify a humanity (Ronald Reagan) in dear need of unification, etc. Play the violin and blow the pipes. Make a plan. Exclude all debunkers: you are not trying to defend a position (the existence of UFOs), but to reflect on the pertinence and the values of secrecy and disclosure. Exclude any reference to the abduction phenomena. From the stench in the cupboard, who wants to touch the body? Go see HBO. Have them sign a non-disclosure agreement first. Etc. I want this plan by July 4th, on my desk. One last thing: don't forget my cut. Regards, Serge Salvaille
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:09:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:54:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Velez >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:24:00 -0500 >Subject: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >I was doing a little reading up for a class, and came across the >following reference to an alien abduction-type experience >brought on by "recreational drug" use. An excerpt follows. >--- >Source: Recreational Drugs Information >http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/dmt06.htm >Initial Effects Of DMT >Initial effects were felt in twenty minutes or so, building to a >peak within forty-five minutes to an hour after ingestion. I >wish that I could report a transcendentally ecstatic result from >this experiment, but that was not to be the case. It was perhaps >the most terrifying psychedelic experience that I can recall. >The best metaphor that I can come up with for what I went >through is that of an alien abduction. It felt as though I was >being examined and probed by a cold, unemotional, foreign >presence whose intentions were unclear but seemed very sinister >at the time. It was very disturbing, almost like a psychic rape. Bobbie, You have mis-classified a very dangerous substance (DMT) as a "recreational" drug. You have also mis-interpreted what was said in the the text book you are quoting. DMT (since the height of the psychedelic consumption era) has been known to be a much more powerful (and uncontrollable) hallucinogen than even LSD 25! Even back then, not very many people used it. DMT falls more in the category of dangerous mind altering drugs like PCP. (Angel Dust) Powerful hallucinogens that _drastically_ alter brain chemistry and cause mostly violent/psychotic behavior (and uncontrollable hallucinations) in anyone who ingests them. Classifying DMT as a "recreational drug" is like classifying Rambo as a choir boy! Also, your insinuation that the statement made in the textbook you quoted indicates that there may be some connection between using drugs, (whether 'recreational' or otherwise) and abduction reports, is a misread on your part. The individual quoted said that he/she _likened_ the experience to what is reported during an abduction. Not that he/she _had_ an "abduction experience" while under its influence. Big difference in interpretation and meaning. Your analogy is based on a misread/misinterpretation of what is being said. Regarding DMT: Shoot, I would be surprised if someone under the influence of a powerful, mind altering/bending hallucinogen like DMT _didn't_ think they were seeing "aliens!" <lol> In the late 60's early 70's the emergency rooms in NYC were reporting many cases of people who had freaked out on drugs like "Angel Dust," (PCP) DMT, and a couple of other potent brain- drugs. But once folks realized how uncontrollable and dangerous these substances were, their use became confined to a small minority of hard-core drug abusers who were just the kind of folks who would literally take anything. DMT never reached the level of use or popularity of other hallucinogens of the time. More to the point you are 'trying' to make: Marijuana falls more under the category of a 'recreational' drug that is commonly used in today's society than DMT. (Most people have never even heard of DMT.) But, as anyone knows who is familiar with the data and stats; there are no reports on record where marijuana intoxication has ever caused the kind of hallucinations in a user that would come anywhere near to being compared to, or categorized, as an abduction experience. If that was the case, pot-smoking would have been looked at as a possible cause/explanation - blamed - for perceptions of abduction, many years ago. Unless you want to rewrite the pharmacology on THC to fit your own theories. But I have a much stronger candidate for you in terms of "recreational drugs" that you might want to blame. :) Alcohol! Now alcohol is whole different story. People who drink to _toxic_ levels hallucinate all the time. Seeing 'pink elephants' and 'snakes'. Even "missing time" is a well worn cliche in relation to alcohol abusers. Maybe you should focus your attention on those who love to drink a lot, who may be mixing alcohol with other prescribed medications, and who also claim to be regular abduction victims. You'd be standing on much better - documented - ground breaking a case for _alcohol_induced_ abduction hallucinations than you would for something like marijuana. _Especially_ with those regular drinkers who mix alcohol with other prescription medications/tranquilizers they are taking. At least, in terms of brain toxicity as compared to a more innocuous 'recreational' use substance like THC - the psycho- active agent in marijuana - alcohol has a much more profound effect on the brain than THC. The clinical differences in the pharmacology and toxicity between alcohol and marijuana are vast and dramatic. On that score, they are literally on opposite ends of the spectrum. Alcohol abuse is also much more wide-spread than DMT use ever was. _Alcohol_users_ would be a good place for you to start your inquiry regarding chemical use and a possible connection to hallucinated abduction reports. But don't just take my word for it! I worked with substance abusers and their families for ten years. See if you can track down one, Commissioner Julio Martinez. Former New York State Commissioner for the, Department of Substance Abuse Services (DSAS). He'll vouch for the information I have just conveyed; the information that follows my name below; and for my 'expertise' on this particular subject. :) John Velez Former Director of Project R.E.T.U.R.N. Foundation's drug free residential treatment facilities. (NYC 1972-3. 52nd Street facility. Julio Martinez, Executive Director, Carlos Pagan, Program Director) Supervising Counsellor, (for a Federal Rehab Program under contract to) Phoenix House Programs, NYC 1978. Dr. Mitch Rosenthal, Exec. Program Director. Ray Colon, Program Director, Robert Doles Federal Project Director. Cert. Senior Addiction Specialist, A.S.A. (*Addiction Services Agency) New York City 1972 (Founded 1968 by order of Mayor John Lindsay.) *The City agency was replaced by a State agency -DSAS- many years later. My former 'boss' Julio Martinez was selected by then Governor Mario Cuomo to be the first commissioner of the new state-wide agency. CAC (Certified Alcoholism Counselor) A.S.A. 1977 (Required certification for anyone working for a 'city funded' agency responsible for treating substance abusers.) While working in the field I was also responsible for setting up the first drug-free residential treatment facility for returning (addicted) Viet Nam veterans in NYC. (1973) For Project R.E.T.U.R.N. Foundation in conjunction with the Veterans Administration Hospital in Manhattan. I founded the first Food Bank in NYC (1976) Project R.E.T.U.R.N. Foundation I was part of a team that performed all the community PR work needed to set-up, and hire and train staff for a residential facility for addicted/ abused or homeless women, unwed mothers and their Children. Project R.E.T.U.R.N. NYC 1974 I listed all of the above in case anybody is 'wondering' about why I am such a public activist regarding UFO abduction. I have been an activist all of my adult life. What I do here is a natural application/extension of what I have done all of my life: making a positive contribution to urgent issues I think are important or believe in strongly. JV Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:25:43 +0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:18:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Lehmberg >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:24:00 -0500 >Subject: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >I was doing a little reading up for a class, and came across the >following reference to an alien abduction-type experience >brought on by "recreational drug" use. An excerpt follows. <snip> >Have there been any surveys done among people claiming abduction >to determine if there is a significant number who will admit to >"recreational drug" use? It would be interesting to see what >percentage of abduction claimants have a history of >"recreational drug" use. I would think that would be a basis for >"weeding out" of any potential candidates for study on >abduction. Oddly - taking into account generations of psychoactive substance use by peoples a little more principled than what is served up in western civilization generally, it may be completely invalid as a weeding tool. Additionally, If 50% of the 90 (?) or so recent DMT takers in a genuine drug study by a Dr. Steadman (I think that's his name) ...subjects not known to one another, report seeing the same little shadow creatures, something might be up. >Can anyone point me in the direction of data of this nature, >if it exists? ...Talk to Billy Budd. Jeff Rense has had him on a couple of times, Art Bell, too, I think. The guy (Dr. Steadman?)was doing a quality study on the psychoactive DMT (...wrote a book called "the God Drug"?) and noted these "shared" apparitions in his test subjects... additionally some ethnologists believe that the _real_ kick in the ass to the imagination of humankind was received when someone (a woman I'll just _bet_ you! [g]) ate the first funny mushroom. One must remember: just 'cause you can't see it without the drug does not necessarily mean that it's not "real". The late Terrence McKenna, one not to be dismissed casually or easily, had a lot to say on the subject. Things are not likely the way you and I think they are, sometimes they're better. [g]. Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO - From: Colm Kelleher - NIDS <nids@anv.net> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:35:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:22:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Missouri Man Claims He Has Piece Of UFO - The following is the full text of the report that NIDS published on the analysis of the fragment that came from Mr. White. I draw your attention to the last section of the analytical lab's report entitled Summary and Conclusions. The report is on our web site at http://www.nidsci.org. Sincerely Colm A. Kelleher PhD, NIDS ----- Analysis of Metal Sample Mr. White, a Missouri resident, provided the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) a piece of material that he purportedly obtained under unusual circumstances. Since the material had not been previously tested, NIDS decided to have a battery of tests conducted. The material was delivered to New Mexico Tech, and the tests were conducted under the direction of Dr. Paul Fuierer, an Assistant Professor in the Materials Engineering Department. On August 23, 1996, Dr. Fuierer submitted his analysis, Sample Analysis Report: Sample #2. The analysis were double blinded. The following is the entire text of the report. No conclusions are made by NIDS. Sample Description Sample #2 in its as-received condition can be described as a finger-shaped piece of metal approximately 30 mm long, 7 mm thick, 18 mm wide at its larger end and 10 mm wide at the smaller end. The interior of the specimen is silver-white in color, and highly reflecting. The outside surface has a tarnished, darker gray appearance with overlapping scale-like features. The sample mass was 5.11524 g. Chemical Analysis A semi-quantitative elemental analysis was obtained using a Philips 2400 X-ray Fluorescence (wavelength dispersive) Spectrometer. A scan of the entire bulk sample identified as major constituents: 85 wt % A1 and 9 wt % Si, and minor constituents: 2 wt% Fe, 0.9 wt% Ca, 0.7 wt% S, 0.6 wt% C1, and 0.6 wt% Na along with several other elements (see Table I). This was in agreement with the qualitative analysis done via Energy Dispersive Spectroscopy (EDS) during the electron microscopy investigation (next section), which detected aluminum, silicon, and iron. In terms of its chemical composition, sample #2 appears to be similar to what is known as a "360 aluminum casting alloy". Phase Identification An X-ray diffraction scan was performed on a slice of the sample with an area of about 1 cm^2. The diffraction pattern is shown in Fig. 1. A13.21Si0.47 is seen to be an excellent match. This composition calculates to 86.8 wt% A1 and 13.2 wt% Si, very close to that of sample #2. The four largest peaks are attributed to the aluminum metal, while the three small peaks (d = 3.1349, d = 1.9221, and d = 1.6375) are due to the presence of silicon. The aluminum peaks are shifted slightly to lower angles and larger d-spacings, as a result of the incorporation of a small amount of other larger metallic impurities into the lattice. The sample can therefore be described as a two-phase mixture of an aluminum solid solution as the majority phase, and silicon as a minor phase. This is in agreement with the equilibrium phase diagram for the Al-Si binary system, shown in Fig. 2. The composition of sample #2 is close to the eutectic composition, which is the composition have the lowest melting point (12.6 % Si according to the published phase diagram). Microstructural Analysis Scanning Electron Micropcopy (SEM) The same slice of sample used for XRD was prepared by grinding and polishing to a mirror finish, followed by etching with 0.5% HF acid for 40 sec. Examination under the electron microscope revealed the microstructure to be quite uniform throughout the sample. Fig. 3 shows low and high magnification shots of the prepared surface. The sample contained a large amount of porosity (darker areas are pits and voids). Also apparent are the small particles (tenths of microns in size) surrounded by the continuous matrix material. EDS revealed the small, light particles to be silicon rich, while the darker gray matrix is Al-rich, as expected (see Fig. 4). Optical Microscopy Two samples were cut for metallographic examination; one sliced perpendicular to the length of the sample, and one parallel. These sections were also ground, polished and etched with 0.5% HF. Fig. 5 shows a couple of low mag shots of the parallel sample. The high porosity is very apparent, along with the very fine microstructure. Flow lines are also apparent in these two shots. The coarse ones are easy to see, outlined by the porosity. A more subtle flow line can be seen in the 250X shot upon close examination, defined only by a slight difference in the density of the darker particles on either side. These kinds of flow lines are commonly observed in poor sand or die castings. These are caused by a failure of molten streams of metal to merge due to poor filling of a mold, incorrect die lubrication or incorrect injection pressures. Only under 1000X magnification can one start to pick out individual black particles (Fig. 6). These tiny black particles are the same Si particles seen under the SEM as light particles. Unfortunately, sub-micron sized features approach the theoretical limit of resolution for a light microscope, and therefore do not reveal themselves very clearly. However, they seem to have grouped together in certain locations to form longer bands, either straight or curved. These are probably dislocations (highly strained defects in the Al lattice) where precipitation of a second phase often occurs. The fine microstructure observed in sample #2 is exactly what one might expect from a near eutectic composition of the Al and Si with a significant amount of impurities. Since the eutectic is rich in aluminum, one would predict an Al-rich solid solution matrix with isolated particles of silicon.....just what we have. The fact that the Si particles are spheroidized (essentially equiaxed spherical particles) as opposed to the classic eutectic lamellar shape (elongated plates or needles) can be explained by the significant quantity of impurities like Na, Mg, etc. These are regarded as modifiers in metal alloy technology, which alter surface energies and affect the morphology of the second phase silicon. Putting all of the above microstructural observations together, one can surmise that the metal was being deformed (pushed or blown) as it cooled from the molten state through the eutectic temperature (~ 577 degrees C) and solidified. It probably cooled fairly rapidly since the Si particles are rather small. Also the alloy may have been undercooled such that excess Si was left in solid solution, and then later precipitated out at the dislocations during either normal or artificial aging. Physical Properties Density Bulk density of the sample was measured based on the Archimedes Principle by immersion in toluene. The mass, while immersed, increased over a long period of time, finally stabilizing after 3 hours, indicative of a highly porous sample. The density of sample #2 was calculated to be 2.47 g/cm^3. This is 91% of that of the theoretical density of pure A1 (2.71 g/cm^3). This is not surprising, considering the presence of undisolved silicon (2.33 g/cm^3) and significant amount of void space observed under the microscope. Hardness The same samples (both perpendicular and parallel cuts) used for optical microscopy were used to measure hardness. A Vickers Hardness number was obtained from a Leco Tester using a diamond tip micro-indenter. Five indentations were made for each sample. The size of the resulting indentations were measured under the light microscope, and averaged. This average value, along with the known applied load were used to come up with the Vicker's Hardness number. For the perpendicular cut, VH = 60. For the parallel cut, VH = 62. The difference is probably within experimental error. These values are slightly higher than pure aluminum, and typical for aluminum alloys. Stiffness An attempt was made to prepare a specimen for measuring the strength and stiffness (elastic modulus) of sample #2 using an Instron machine, however; the sample proved to be to small. Electrical Properties A four-point probe must be used for accurate measurement for highly conducting materials like metals. For this, a rectangular slab sample was cut and polished to dimensions: length = 11.16 mm, width = 3.36 mm, and thickness = 0.38 mm. A digital multimeter was used to measure the current (provided by a constant current source) through the length of the sample, while an electrometer was used to measure the voltage drop (to the nearest 0.00001 V) across a length of the slab. The resistivity of sample #2 was measured to be 2.90 x 10^-5 Ohm-cm. This is about an order of magnitude higher than that of pure aluminum (3 x 10^-6 Ohm-cm) and five times higher than that of 360 Al alloy (6x10^-6 Ohm-cm). This is completely reasonable, considering the large number of Si particles, dislocation lines, and amount of porosity. Summary and Conclusions Results from the analysis of sample #2 are quite conclusive. The specimen is an aluminum-silicon alloy, with a substantial amount of variety of impurities, including iron, calcium, sulfur, chlorine, sodium, magnesium and others. The composition is one that could be used as an aluminum casting alloy. The closest commercial material has the trade name "360 alloy" [Lyman, 1961]. This is a die casting alloy used in applications where excellent castability and resistance to corrosion are required. It is used for miscellaneous thin-walled and intricate castings. Since this type of alloy is very close to the eutectic (lowest melting) composition, it has excellent fluidity at relatively low temperatures. The microstructure of the sample is one to be expected from the composition: second phase eutectic silicon particles in a matrix of aluminum solid solution. However, due to a few undesirable structural characteristics, it would be regarded as a poorly cast aluminum alloy when compared with published micrographs of commercial materials [Lyman, 1972]. The large amount of porosity would certainly lead to a decreased strength and decreased corrosion resistance. The presence of porosity together with the apparent flow lines suggests that uncontrolled cooling took place. The significant amount of impurities like sodium accounts for the fineness and rounded nature of the silicon particles, rather than the larger, longer, more angular particules usually observed. Dislocations (planes of slip caused by plastic deformation) appear to be decorated by silicon particles. In many cases, these dislocations follow the flow lines. This suggests some forced flow during solidification of the melt (in the range of temperatures 600 degrees C to 575 degrees C). There are no anomalies in the results of this analysis. The detected phases are accounted for, and the microstructure lends itself to standard metallurgical interpretation. The physical properties that were measured (density, hardness, and electrical resistivity) all fall within the expected range. References Lyman, T. (editor), "Properties and Selection of Metals", Vol. 1 in Metals Handbook, American Society for Metals (1961). Lyman, T. (editor), "Atlas of Microstructures of Industrial Alloys", Vol. 7 in Metals Handbook, American Society for Metals (1972). Lyman, T. (editor), "Metallography, Structures and Phase Diagrams", Vol. 8 in Metals Handbook, American Society for Metals (1973). Mondolfo, L.R., Aluminum Alloys: Structure and Properties, Butterworth Inc. (1976).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Cydonian Imperative: 04-18-02 Buttresses & Casing From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:26:27 -0400 Subject: Cydonian Imperative: 04-18-02 Buttresses & Casing The Cydonian Imperative 4-18-02 'Buttresses' and 'Casing' on the D&M Pyramid by Mac Tonnies See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html Subtle details on the D&M Pyramid recall ancient terrestrial architecture. As noted by the Enterprise Mission, the D&M's "bottom" triangular facet is bracketed by two somewhat rectilinear formations that may have served as buttresses. [image] The most intact facet of the D&M Pyramid shows possible "buttresses" as well as what might be an eroded external casing similar to that of the Egyptian pyramids (most visible immediately left of center). Another seemingly structural detail is also revealed on the "buttressed" facet: a shallow, meandering crack virtually identical to the ruined brick casing seen on the (relatively small-scale) pyramids in Egypt. While it is perhaps unlikely that the D&M represents architecture of an Ancient Egyptian- level civilization (if artificial), this superficial detail strongly suggests a protective veneer of some sort. This veneer has apparently begun to crumble away, leaving the scrape-like feature seen in the picture above. Alternatively, the area revealed by the "scrape" might be the actual surface of the D&M, and the surrounding "veneer" an encrustration of Martian soil caught in the act of slumping away. The latter scenario implies that the D&M was partially or even entirely buried at some point in Cydonia's geological past. The rounded mass of soil to the D&M's east might be some this once-protective layer, stripped from the formation's surface by the same winds that reveal the parralel ridges and evocative "extra angle" seen clearly in the THEMIS image. [image] Possibly the most rewarding detail from the THEMIS image is this geometric angle apparently emerging from the sand. Compare to complete image of the D&M Pyramid (above.) Conversely, perhaps this "build-up" (postulated in the previous article) is the sand-covered remains of a quarry used during construction of the D&M. While the prevailing notion among Cydonia investigators is that the Martian "monuments" were created by modifying existing landforms, Richard Hoagland is convinced that the explicitly nonfractal signature of the Face can only be attributed to the presence of artificial materials (in which case localized spectral surveys, if conducted, would add an additional level of anomaly to the Face and perhaps other formations in the Cydonia region). Finally, George J. Haas of The Cydonia Institute notes that the proposed platform below the D&M (see previous article) shares alignments with the Fort. (I would add that since the Fort's orientation is identical to that of the Face and at least one other object in the "City" area, this alignment might prove more meaningful than suspected.) While this could be evidence of an unknown geological mechanism acting in concert, the myriad details noted on this site and others certainly give an objective observor pause. Regardless of whether the D&M Pyramid proves to be the "mathemetical Rosetta Stone" of Cydonia, as suggested by cartographer Erol Torun, its morphology and placement on the Martian surface are strange indeed. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 16 - Deardorff From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:32:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:36:09 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 16 - Deardorff >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:21:03 +0100 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 16 >Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. ><Masinaigan@aol.com> >UFO ROUNDUP >Volume 7, Number 16 >April 16, 2002 >Editor: Joseph Trainor >http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ >... >READER FEEDBACK: >MYSTERY SOLVED--THE ROSARIO UFO >Concerning the giant "transparent sphere" UFO seen over Rosario, >Argentina two weeks ago (See UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 15 >for April 9, 2002, "Giant UFOs reported by hundreds in >Argentina," page 2), space sciences author James E. Oberg >writes, "Please forward this to the folks in Argentina who are >still baffled by the prosaic but still amazing artificial >phenomenon." >"For more than 20 years, a certain type of Russian space launch >has regularly caused UFO sightings in Chile and Argentina. The >booster blasts off from Plesetsk, north of Moscow, makes half an >orbit, and then, as it crosses central Chile, it fires its >rocket stage again to send the payload into a higher elliptical >orbit over the northern hemisphere (the so-called Molniya orbit- >-J.O.). The last stage then vents its excess propellant." >"When this occurs, just after sunset local (Chile) time, a large >nebulous sphere is seen moving through the skies over Argentina, >Uruguay and even southern Brazil. I first wrote about this in >1983 in Fate magazine that discussed such examples as June 14, >1980 and October 31, 1982, but even today UFO chroniclers still >overlook the prosaic explanation and report such sightings as >true UFOs." >Jim Oberg also provided the actual text of the news release >which proves that a Russian Molniya rocket was launched at that >time. "Text of report by Russian news agency RIA: Moscow, 2 >April (2002) A Molniya-M booster carrying a (Russian) Ministry >of Defense satellite was launched from Plesetsk State >Experimental Cosmodrome at 0207 Moscow (2207 GMT) time on 2 >April, RIA-Novosti correspondent was told at the Russian Space >Troops news service. The launch was carried out by the troops >unit." >The full text of Jim Oberg's 1983 article can be found at >http://www.debunker.com/texts/giant_ufo.html. (Editor's Note: >When it's 2:07 a.m. in Moscow on April 2, 2002, adjusting for >the intervening time zones, the corresponding moment is 6:07 >p.m. on April 1, 2002 in Buenos Aires. Or two hours before the >people of the Rosario region saw the phenomenon in the evening >sky. Obviously, the ejected propellant from the Molniya-M rocket >caused the "giant transparent sphere." I guess we can mark this >one--Case Closed.) Does anyone besides myself on this List wonder how a UFO described by multiple witnesses as being a "perfect semi- transparent sphere" could be formed out of vented spent fuel, or ejected propellant, which is Oberg's proposed explanation? Surely such an ejection would form a long trail behind the moving rocket, not a sphere. To form a sphere would require an explosive release in all directions, and from a non-moving object unless it was above practically all of the atmosphere. But in that case the sphere would continue to expand. This would not be venting. Evidently Oberg is unaware that UFO activity often seems to occur at nearly the same time, and in the same general location, where observers have reported the passage of a scientifically explainable event, such as a bright meteor or a satellite reentry. This was noted by Stan Gordon back in 1985 (MUFON UFO Journal No. 212 (Dec.), p. 8, from quite a number of cases.) And I presume Oberg is unaware that this means the UFO occupants possess intelligence as well as know-how far advanced over ours, and have a strategy for dealing with us. One part of their strategy seems to be to see that we are often presented with deceptive items of semi-plausible deniability along with the honest UFO reports. That way, negative skeptics can latch onto the semi-plausible item while ignoring opposing evidence; thus their free will is not violated. In this case, the semi- plausible item of deniability is the purposeful timing on the part of UFO aliens of their sighting to come close to the time of a man-made event. Jim Deardorff http://www.tjresearch.info/denial.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Salvaille From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:59:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:39:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Salvaille >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:24:00 -0500 >Subject: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? Hello Bobbie, <snip> >I was doing a little reading up for a class, and came across the >following reference to an alien abduction-type experience >brought on by "recreational drug" use. An excerpt follows. >Source: Recreational Drugs Information >http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/dmt06.htm >Initial Effects Of DMT >Initial effects were felt in twenty minutes or so, building to a >peak within forty-five minutes to an hour after ingestion. I >wish that I could report a transcendentally ecstatic result from >this experiment, but that was not to be the case. It was perhaps >the most terrifying psychedelic experience that I can recall. <snip> Long time not talk :) You quote reprises the reference I have put at the bottom of my post. Your question triggered a strange chain of associations while I was searching the Internet, wearing Googles, my butt just at the tip of my armchair - wink to Wendy ;) In any case, you're pointing at a tough subject with surprising ramifications, which seem to go mainly in 3 directions. 1. Katharina Wilson and a few others believe that there is a connection between "alien abductions" and mind control experiments by the CIA involving barbiturates, amphetamines and heroin. 2. Some researchers believe that there may be a connection between "Alien abduction" and the accidental release of a natural drug "DMT". This drug has triggered NDE sensations (Near Death Experiment) as well as Alien Abduction experiences. 3. It has been reported that certain subjects suffering from self-mutilation problems (a persistent and chronic psychological problem) have related their scars to "alien abduction". I don't think there is an easy answer to this one. Alien abduction is a hot potato. Drug abuse is also a hot potato. I would estimate that you may find among abdcutees higher levels of drug abuse (including alcohol) than in the 'normal' population... at levels close to the ones you get among people that have very stressful jobs: cops, doctors, lawyers (they deserve it!), and so forth. Even higher. That would be logical. It would also be logical to think, in the 'Victorian' attitude of Wendy Connors and Dick Hall regarding New Age, that some newly converted abductees may be, in the beginning, drug users looking for a niche when they go cold turkey. The problem with drugs - and gambling for that matter - mostly stems from the difficulty of truly feeling alive. I wouldn't be surprised if alien abduction gave some people a fix of some kind, a rush. In a word, alien abduction must be some trip. Well sorta. So, like all aspects of human behavior, there is, in alien abduction, a little bit of everything: authenticity, delusion, conceit, deception. I don't think a liar will make it, though. But, however you look at it, an abductee has always been abducted, if not by an alien, by something that was alien to him/her. Regards, Serge Salvaille _________________________________________________________________ http://www.parkstpress.com/titles/dmspmo.htm DMT: The Spirit Molecule A Doctor's Revolutionary Research into the Biology of Near-Death and Mystical Experiences From 1990 to 1995 Dr. Rick Strassman conducted U.S. Government-approved and funded clinical research at the University of New Mexico in which he injected sixty volunteers with DMT, one of the most powerful psychedelics known. His detailed account of those sessions is an extraordinarily riveting inquiry into the nature of the human mind and the therapeutic potential of psychedelics. DMT, a plant-derived chemical found in the psychedelic Amazon brew, ayahuasca, is also manufactured by the human brain. In Strassman's volunteers, it consistently produced near-death and mystical experiences. Many reported convincing encounters with intelligent nonhuman presences, aliens, angels, and spirits. Nearly all felt that the sessions were among the most profound experiences of their lives. Strassman's research connects DMT with the pineal gland, considered by Hindus to be the site of the seventh chakra and by Rene Descartes to be the seat of the soul. DMT: The Spirit Molecule makes the bold case that DMT, naturally released by the pineal gland, facilitates the soul's movement in and out of the body and is an integral part of the birth and death experiences, as well as the highest states of meditation and even sexual transcendence. Strassman also believes that "alien abduction experiences" are brought on by accidental releases of DMT. If used wisely, DMT could trigger a period of remarkable progress in the scientific exploration of the most mystical regions of the human mind and soul.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 UFO Wisconsin - Mexican Roswell? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@mail.dk> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:09:46 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:44:50 -0400 Subject: UFO Wisconsin - Mexican Roswell? I have been off the List for a long time and would be very interested in comments on this one. Source: The premiere issue of UFO Wisconsin's Pancake Perspective, April 18, 2002. http://www.ufowisconsin.com/pancakeperspectives/pp2002_0418.html Stig *** Pancake Perspectives Issue One - April 18, 2002 Editor: Jim Aho ** Mexican Roswell? Thanks to Mary Sutherland of the Burlington News * Mary writes: Last night I received an email from a very reliable source on a government coverup and an alien crash in Mexico. The gentleman that submitted the story to me has come forth for the first time to let us have this eye- witnessed information. As a soldier in the Mexican army, he was one of the few that actually went inside the crashed vehicle. More will be following on the Crash. Not since Roswell have we had such a credible encounter. The Letter: "God bless you dear Sister, Mary, I will try to write my old UFO experience as well as I can remember. When I was 16 years old, my father enlisted me in the 75th Infantry Corp, 2nd Company, in the Mexican Army. During the basic training, six months, I learned to be a soldier doing the things that a soldier must do..have loyalty, fidelity and kill for patriotism (a foolish way of thinking) At the end of my training, I was commissioned in the 1st. Corp of Military Transmissions and Communications. I was commissioned as such because of my knowledge of radio repair and electronics. All this took place in the 80's. I think in 1984. In '84, we were guarding the military camp when suddenly, by radio, we received a message calling in an emergency. That emergency call said something about a fire in the woods south of the city, in a place called Parque Nacional Desierto de los Leones, near the volcano named EL Nevado de Toloca. Immediately we set into our emergency plan name DNIII. DNIII was the emergency plan that was set up for National Defense, just in case of... We arrived at the area ASAP, closing the area in several kms around the perimeter. When I arrived at the place, I got down out of the truck and saw some kind of strange lights, which shone like no fire I had ever seen! These lights were shining, changing colors from one to another very slowly. The colors were yellow, blue, white, red, and green. We left our vehicles and walked the rest of the way, almost climbing the mountain to arrive at the 'supposed' fire. The air was heavy and very hot like a steam bath. By radio came the order, 'Do not STAND in front of the object more than 12 minutes... Do not touch anything. WAIT, for now, until we get further orders. Just KEEP the area contained. Now I am seeing this is NO FIRE, but why could we not stand close to the object? Why were we containing the area? I began thinking...maybe it's a crashed plane, but then I asked myself, 'Why aren't we allowed to help the survivors?" When we finally arrived at the crash site, I saw several parts of 'something' scattered all over a big area, parts of metal, some pieces were small. The heat now was very heavy. The Captain in Chief said, "Boys, none of you here watching or listing the found debris can say or tell anyone of this because of national security or you will abstain to the results..got it?" We answered to this, "Yes Sir". Myself and a Sargent went walking through the crash site, looking for some 'life evidence', while my partners kept the area contained. As I searched through the crashed object, I found myself nausated and having a sense of vertigo, but I continued my search. We didn't find anything showing any forms of life, but I remember seeing objects with some kind of writing that I had never seen in school or knew anything of. The closest I can come to explaining what the writing looked like would be that of Egyptian. At the central point was what 'I THINK' was the main control room. It looked like a top of a church, in short, vibrating in sound and in colors. It sounded like maybe that of the humming of electricity with a vibration pulsing from it...like wings of bees but VERY INTENSE. The most interest of all this, was how the rest of the metals and the main room seemed to vibrate together...in perfect synchronicity...as it were all part of the same body. It seemed to me it was like a cellular body where all cells work as one. We were up there with the crashed vehicle all night . The next day, many men arrived to the sites, dressed in black, accompanied by the military soldiers of the United State Government. They told us that this craft was an experimental capsule they had been using to test the atmosphere and all that stuff. All parts were put in their trucks and taken back to the United States. This is my story, Mary. But some things I haven't told you yet, but I wanted to get something to you on this now. I will write more and in more detail later. God Bless You Dear Sister Mary is following up on this story, and promises to post any updates on the Burlington News site as she gets them: http://www.burlingtonnews.net <snip>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:50:56 -0400 Subject: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? List, I was reading a book on quantum physics and came across an illustration that showed shapes very similar (and in one case identical) to the 'glyphs' drawn by Jesse Marcel (Jr. & Sr.) of Roswell fame. The illustration in question showed the possible positions of electron clouds around excited hydrogen atoms. Some of the configurations are remarkably 'flower' like. The one that impressed me the most looked like a stylized 'I' with small 'petals' coming out of its sides. Jesse Marcel Jr. drew something precisely like this. I'll try to locate a graphic to illustrate the similarity. In the meantime, any comments are appreciated. It's entirely possible I'm not the first to notice this (especially with Stan Friedman's familiarity with nuclear physics). ===== Mac Tonnies -Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies- "He runs after facts like a beginner learning to skate, who, furthermore, practices somewhere where it is forbidden." --Franz Kafka
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 [aufon] Pancake Perspectives - Issue 01 From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 02:36:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:06:57 -0400 Subject: [aufon] Pancake Perspectives - Issue 01 ---------- From: UFOWisconsin.com <thestaff@ufowisconsin.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:41:56 -0500 To: Subject: [aufon] Pancake Perspectives - Issue 01 Pancake Perspectives One of Wisconsin's most notorious UFO close encounters took place on April 18, 1961. Joe Simonton of Eagle River reported that he was given three pancakes by aliens. Since then, this story has been shared around the world, but if you think about it, the only reason we can even talk about it today is because he had the courage to tell his story in the first place. Click here to read Joe Simonton's Story: http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports/r1961_0418_vilas.html In this newsletter, we hail the courage that brought Joe Simonton's story and invite all of you to share your stories, viewpoints and alien theories. =================================== Pancake Perspectives - Issue 01 Editor: Jim Aho http://www.ufowisconsin.com/pancakeperspectives.html (Note: If the links don't work or pictures don't appear in your email version of our newsletter, please visit the above url) =================================== Mexican Roswell? Thanks to Mary Sutherland of the Burlington News <http://www.burlingtonnews.net/> Mary writes: Last night I received an email from a very reliable source on a government coverup and an alien crash in MEXICO. The gentleman that submitted the story to me has come forth for the first time to let us have this eye-witnessed information. As a soldier in the Mexican army, he was one of the few that actually went inside the crashed vehicle. More will be following on the Crash. Not since Roswell have we had such a credible encounter. <snip> [already posted--ebk] =================================== Oklahoma UFO Photo Thanks to Joe W. Editorial note: Not often that a person gets to see a UFO, and it's much less often that they have the presence of mind to take a photo. Good thinking Joe! Date: 3-11-02 about 1:30 AM As I was driving home (driving towards the west from downtown Lawton, Oklahoma) I noticed several green lights and one larger red light near the western horizon. At first I paid little attention thinking it to be aircraft lights when they began to move in an erratic way. The smaller green lights seemed to be orbiting around the larger red light. It was then obvious that this wasn't any normal aircraft! As I got closer to home I realized that the lights were heading in my general direction. I pulled into my driveway and ran into the house to grab my digital camera. When I ran back outside the objects were now much closer and nearly overhead. I just recently got my digital camera, and not being very familiar with it only managed to get one picture. At the time I took the picture the objects were moving but slowly. After I took the picture I made the mistake of checking the display on the back of the camera to see if I got it. In hindsight I should have spent that time taking more pictures as it then sped off to the east while and was quickly out of sight. As a result I only got the one picture. I didn't notice any sound coming from the objects, but they did seem to disturb all the dogs in the neighborhood which were barking until it vanished from sight. Here's the photo that Joe W. was able to get of the UFO: Update: This photo was analyzed by an Oklahoma Mufon member and determined to be a real UFO. You can read the full analysis report at: The Lawton Triangle http://brumac.8k.com/LawtonTriangle/LawtonTriangle.html =================================== Taking The First Step Thanks to Mush Editorial note: When anyone suspects they might have had personal alien contact, the hardest part is sometimes starting the process of realizing it may very well be reality and not just your imagination. Takes a lot of courage to take that step and tell someone, but as the following story shows, it sure beats facing it alone. As the car pulled up in front of the house on a quiet, nondescript street in a suburban Long Island town, I wondered to myself for about the thousandth time if I was doing the right thing. Here I was literally on the threshhold of discovering if my memories of strange beings were factual or just figments of my imagination, which might indicate possible mental or physiological illness. I was hoping for the latter. It would be much easier for me to accept that this was all in my head and there was a medication or therapy available to make it go away. The other possibility...that this was real...well, I tried not to think about it. After months of agonizing deliberation and discussions with family members, I had finally made the decision to seek out professional assistance in dealing with my problem... memories of strange beings and other unusual incidents. Now I was faced with a new dilemma. Where do I find the help I so desperately needed? I needed to find someone that would understand and be open to all possibilities. As humorous as this may sound, I actually tried to look up "UFOs" in the yellow pages of the phone book. No, it's not listed. A trip to my local library's reference section found information on an international UFO organization called the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON). I contacted MUFON in Texas and received the phone number for a local representative of the group. Through this representative, I was provided with the phone number of Dr. Maurice Kouguell, a psychologist in the area. Finally! But now I needed to dial the number...and tell a complete stranger that I've seen strange beings in my room since I was a little girl. It sounded crazy even to me. What would this man think? I got up the courage to call and was greeted by an answering machine. A warm voice with a pleasant accent encouraged me to leave my name and number. I don't remember what I said, but I must have left my number. Dr Kouguell called me later that day and we set up an appointment. As soon as he opened the door, I knew I had made the right decision. Warmth, kindness and compassion radiated from this man. The neat disorganization of his office comforted me. Instead of a wall full of diplomas and citations, there were rows of shelves holding books on a myriad of topics. And the books looked like they were well read. Here was a person who was more interested in his clients concerns then in material surroundings. I was soon to learn that my first impressions were right on the money. Our initial conversation entailed my telling Maurice about what I could recall, and my fears of being crazy...or worse, sane. He then told me about hypnosis. He explained what hypnosis was and described the techniques he used. Before we began, he had me draw a stick figure of a person. I kept proclaiming I was not an artist. Maurice began the induction and as I lay on a recliner, I felt my body relax. The sensation was very enjoyable. It's difficult to describe, but my body felt heavy, as though each movement would take extreme concentration and strength, yet light as a feather...as if I could float. Maurice would later tell me that I went immediately into a deep trance. Before the induction, we had decided to explore a conscious memory of an incident that occurred a few years back. I had awoken in bed one night to find myself paralyzed except for my eyes. My room was bathed in a bluish-gray light. I though the light meant that it was close to dawn...the twilight. I was very frightened because I couldn't move my body. As my eyes searched my bedroom, from the windows on my left, towards the right side of the room, I suddenly saw a figure in a dark hooded cloak standing to the right of my bed. I was terrified but couldn't scream. I couldn't see any face. Suddenly, I heard this mechanical monotone voice in my head telling me, "everything is alright, go back to sleep." I immediately lost consciousness, but I had a clear memory of this incident the next morning when I awoke. Under hypnosis, Maurice took me back to the night this incident occurred. I could see my bedroom very clearly. I noticed that the window shades were down..the blue light could not be the glow of twilight as I had thought. Once again my eyes travelled the perimeter of my room...from left to right. There was the figure just as I had recalled it. I could see the folds in the robe sway when the figure moved slightly. I saw an object that resembled a wand with a glowing ball at the tip of it. Then, once again I heard the voice telling me to go back to sleep. The next sensation I felt was being floated out the window and going up. I could see asphalt in the yard behind the house and a large fir tree. But I was looking down on it. I felt myself entering a different environment, some type of metal...shiny. Then I saw what I called one of the "nasty ones". I felt like I was being chased, trying to get away from it. I saw what it looked like and tried to burn the image into my mind. Suddenly, I was whisked away and found myself in a different place. I was now in the company of two gray beings. They were short with thin bodies, large heads and large dark eyes. The were communicating to me telepathically. I was being told that they had saved me from the "nasty one". That's all I could recall under hypnosis. After this session, Dr Kouguell asked me to try and draw the "nasty one". I tried very hard to remember what the being looked like, but all I could draw was what I thought the shape of the head was. It was an oblong shape that flared in the middle and came to a point on the top. It reminded me of a fat plant leaf. I was so sure I had seen the image of the being. I was very dissapointed I couldn't remember it after the session. I didn't realize it then, but perhaps I wasn't ready to deal with seeing what this being actually looked like. Well, was I crazy? Dr Kouguell didn't seem to think so. It seemed we had much more to learn about these incidents. I was very glad that I was no longer facing it alone. =================================== Think Global Thanks to Bruce The most important thing we can do right now is try to see ourselves as Earthlings. If you came from some other area of space to make contact, your rules would probably require at a minimum to speak with the planet's head spokespeople. As Carl Sagan said in his Cosmos series: "NO ONE Speaks for EARTH." We need to come together as a Planet. Our Tribal Warfare must END. I've found some great guidelines with the Bahai' Writings. You must soon realize, that "The Alien Presence will be made known to the peoples of our planet. And then What? Our Government is worried about economic collapse and our way of life continuing. Let's help our government Reveal The TRUTH! Please Write your elected folks and let them know your position. Thanks, 1-800-489-4UFO PS: If you think about it, Why did Ronald Reagan, and Mikhail Gorbechov get together to end the cold war? I'm sure there was an Alien presence there. =================================== That does it for this week. Remember, we're only getting started here. If you'd like to make a submission for a future issue, please use our submission form: http://www.ufowisconsin.com/pancakeperspectives.html =================================== =================================== Your complete source for up-to-date Wisconsin UFO sightings & information: http://www.ufowisconsin.com =================================== To Post a message, send it to: aufon@eGroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: aufon-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Disclosure2003 Press Release - 4/19/02 From: Disclosure Project <Disclosure2003@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 04:31:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:12:14 -0400 Subject: Disclosure2003 Press Release - 4/19/02 DISCLOSURE2003 8th District Congressional Campaign of Stephen Bassett Press Release April 19, 2002 Washington, DC - On Wednesday, April 17 in a press conference at the National Press Club, Stephen Bassett announced he had filed to enter the congressional election for the 8th District of Maryland as an independent. The 8th District is comprised primarily of Montgomery County and parts of Prince George's County and borders northwest Washington, DC. Bassett stated, "while the campaign will frankly engage a range of controversial national issues, the principal issue will be the need to end what is often referred to as the "UFO cover-up." He added that, "numerous polls have shown the higher the income and educational demographic, the greater the awareness of UFO/ET phenomena, the greater the conviction as to an extraterrestrial presence, and the greater the belief the U.S. government is not telling the public the truth. The 8th District of Maryland is one of the highest educated and highest income communities in the nation. Mr. Bassett indicated, "the campaign is designed to serve as a referendum on the disclosure issue. By virtue of the signatures placed on the candidate petition, by the answers given to the pollsters, by the contributions made to the campaign and by the votes in November, the public can send a clear and powerful message to the nation's leaders and top-tier journalists who work and reside in the Washington metro area. They can say, 'It is time for a political resolution to the most difficult transition in human history. It is time for the truth to be told.'" The campaign's title, Disclosure2003, refers to the candidate's view that 2003 represents the first true window of opportunity since 1947 for the government to hold a formal disclosure event. Key references, which, the campaign will strongly promote regarding the lead issue, include: - Missing Times: News Media Complicity in the UFO Cover-up, Terry Hansen 2000 - UFOs and the National Security State - Richard Dolan 2000 - Website: www.presidentialufo.com - Website: www.disclosureproject.org Mr. Bassett is a lobbyist, activist, commentator and columnist. He is the founder of the Paradigm Research Group and the Executive Director of the political action committee, X-PPAC. His work has been referenced in, among others, the Washington Post, Washington Times, New York Times, Legal Times, Christian Science Monitor, National Journal and O'Dweyer's Washington Report. He has been featured in documentaries and a guest on numerous radio programs addressing the "Politics of UFOs: The Road to Disclosure." His family has lived in Montgomery County, Maryland since 1933. ______________________________________________ Transparent government, private citizenry ______________________________________________ Campaign Headquarters Bethesda/Gaithersburg 4938 Hampden Lane, #161, Bethesda, MD 20814 Phone: 301-990-4290 Fax: 301-990-0199 Disclosure2003@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: British Government and UFOs - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:40:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:15:57 -0400 Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs - Morris >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:26:08 +0100 >>From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:01:03 +0100 >>Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs >>What _is_ obvious to most list members is your failure to answer >>the simple and direct questions posed by Joe McGonagle, >>concerning the source of the documents you and Nick used in your >>UFO magazine article. >>You have attempted every distraction possible rather than >>providing a direct, honest answer. >Andy, I am sure you will appreciate that the posts from Joe et >al, were in fact a series of insults, and the questions posed >were based on preconceived and mistaken ideas that we had stolen >your research for our article. In spite of the insults we have >answered these questions in previous posts, and will do so yet >again, and we hope this will be the end of it because we are >very busy with other matters. >I obtained the secret documents from the MOD as part of my >ongoing research into the UFO subject. I also obtained the file >numbers of the top secret documents from the MOD and Nick Pope >and I obtained these and other documents from the PRO. And yet Nick admits to not having heard of them! >Regarding the article, which your colleagues seem to dismiss, we >did not steal any of this from your research. We have done our >own and all our sources are credited. I'm sorry they are not. It must be something to do with those "two helpful members of the public". Better known as Clark and Roberts. >The purpose of the article >was to link Establishment figures with the UFO subject, and our >research is ongoing in this area. We will be doing a full >presentation at the UFO Magazine Conference in September, when >we will reveal further information. >It is true that we disagree with your debunking tactics, >especially those of your colleague David Clarke, but this had >nothing to do with our decision to publish when we did. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous and I think people have already decided that you are (both) happy to use other people's work. Here is a new example. For years my colleague Tim Matthews has been writing and giving lectures on the subject of the technologies behind man-made flying discs/triangles and he will be presenting more at our event tomorrow. I honestly don't think that there's anyone out there who knows more on this than he does. Now Nick Pope comes along claiming to know about "bombs and saucers" and I wonder to myself whether the same thing is happening all over again. In relation to the documents that you claim to have exclusively shown, we showed them - and credited them to Clarke and Roberts - at our last Conference. >We will not respond to questions which we consider insulting. In other words, questions which show you in a less than perfect light. What a tangled webs you weave!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 UFO Romania From: Valentin Manoliu <ozn@dr.com> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:36:59 +0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:23:33 -0400 Subject: UFO Romania UFO-OZN ELECTROMAGNETIC RADIATIONS Man succeeded to send machines or got himself out, in space. Then, he noticed that the atmosphere absorbs electromagnetic radiation from the immensity of space. The most important electromagnetic radiation come from the Sun. The temperature of the Sun globe is of 6000 Kelvin degrees and and the teperature of the Sun crown reaches 1 milion Kelvin degrees. The temperature of the stars from space is varied, taking values from a few Kelvin degrees to milions and milions Kelvin degrees. Because of this large variation of temperature at the stars, the electromagnetic radiation spectrum appears as a large scale of frequencies. When the temperature of the stars is higher, the frequencies takes higher values and the wave length takes lower values. Another source of electromagneticradiation is represented by the presence of the UFOs around us. Close to the UFOs, there have been noticed thermic radiation, visible or even radioactive, the last ones representing only a part of the electromagnetic radiation spectrum, that propagates itself as electromagnetic waves accompanied by a transport of radiant energy. The electromagnetic radiation is classified as: - hertzian radiation - thermic radiation - ultraviolet radiation - visible radiation - infrared radiation - braking radiation - , , radiation - X-rays (or Roentgen radiation) It is being supposed that the electromagnetic radiation emitted by the UFOs interrupts or jam the radios, stop the car-engines, switch off their lights or get out of order the nets of high tension towns. This idea comes from the fact that all the metallic objects from the neighborhood of the UFOs became magnetized. Close to Haderlev (Denmark), at the nightof the 18th of August, 1970, Evald Maarup, a police-officer, was the witness of an amazing process: a pencil of cutlight-rays was retreating slowly into an unidentified space ship, standing quietly in the air. The hertzian waves propagate in straight line with finit speed, reflecting when they meet obstacles. Because of the properties of the radio waves, those are used in order to detect and find the position of an object or plane by the emission and the reflection of the radio waves from the objects and their reception by the detect object. The emission of Hertzian radiation and their absorption by the radar stations help us in getting information of a better quality about the speed and the high they are flying to. The Hertzian radiation that is absorbed to the Earth has a wave length between 1 centrimeter and 30 meters and pass through the Earth's atmosphere called radio window. The Hertzian radiation with a wave length over 30 meters suffer the reflection on ionosphere, this is why the radiation emitted from space can't be totally studied from the face of the Earth. Lately, we have used space-satellites to help us to obtain the information from the radio waves of space. The acrobatic planes have a special change of place on the radar picture in comparison with the planes for passengers and goods, because they have a big weight and strict routes. The UFOs reach unrealizable parameters for our knowledge.The radar is confronted with observations on the UFOs considered by science as strange and then unidentified. It is significant that the UFOs emit Hertzian radioation. On the screen of the radar the object appears only when it is lighted, actually when it is on function and when the objects is extinguished it doesn't show up on the screen. The first observations about the thermic radiation were made on the Sun-spectrum. The bright radiation emitted by the Sun have been decomposed using a prism of glass. The thermic radiation was reached the chemical action of the Sun spectrum radiation was increasing with the change of color from red to violet. From this huge electromagnetic radiation spectrum the human-eye notices only the radiation between the infrared radiation and ultraviolet, actually only the visible radiation. Those radiation created them health problems as the irritation, the reddening of the skin and the swelling of the face. In fact that was the result of the ultraviolet radiation known from the exaggerated exposing to the sun-light. An incandescent object changes its color and its frequency with the temperature. At 500 Celsius degrees, the iron is dark red, becoming with the increase of temperature bright red, orange, yellow and then bright white at 1800 Celsius degrees. At the UFOs there have been noticed the same changes of the color before their instant acceleration. Those are possible due to a thermic agitation of the particles: electrons, ions, molecules absorbed from the atmosphere, water or space. The infrared radiation appears due to the electrons leap from a more distant orbit closer to the atomic nucleus. The infrared photography represents a very important practical application. The propagation of the infrared radiation is not influenced by the atmosphere that could e polluted by dust, smoke or fog. This way it is possible to take pictures of landscapes, mountains or towns placed far away. The infrared absorption and the reflection are different by those of light, the colors having other shades. The water absorbs the infrared radiation and looks like the ink, the iron is bright as a window and the dark colors become bright. The astronomic allowed the knowledge of the relief shapes, chemical composition, temperature and the structure of the planets, stars, galayies or nebulas. The visible radiation emitted by the UFOs represent the light that the eye-retina notices, many times having different colors. Besides the 7 rainbow colors there is an infinity or intermediary shades that still our eyes can notice in a limited number of colors. The atom is an oscillating system able to absorb or emit electromagnetic radiation. The atom passes from an energetic state to another by the leap of the electron from an energetic level to another. The energy of radiation that is emitted to a leap of the electron in the atom represents the difference between the energies of the two levels that the electron jumps between. As higher the difference is, as higher the frequency of the emitted radiation is. The UFOs are lighted bright in the water, air or space and because of their easy change of place in those mediums they can't be classified as meteors or falling stars. The ultraviolet radiation is obtained with the help of the lamps with gas, discharges used as source of light. The Sun emits continuously ultraviolet radiation. Lucky photographers imortalized UFOs on the photographic film. This way there proved the existence of the radiation that is invisible for the human-eye. The X-rays have a bigger strenght of penetration and they have the property of being absobed by the soft tissues, bones of the body, hard metals and lead. Roentgen irradiated his wife's hand taking the first picture presenting the hand with the bones and his wife wedding ring. The X-rays are obtained by the electrons emitted by the filament K, the electrons are put on the brake in the anode A and the tension U accelerates the electrons. The intensity of the radiation depends on their frequency. The anode consistes in two elements with different atomic numbers. The maximum frequency is not dependent on the atomic number. The intensity of the radiation depends of their frequency for different accelerating voltages of the electrons. The maximum frequency increases with the acceleration voltage of the electrons. In the Onilson Patera case, the subject confessed that he almost lost his control seeing the car engine, the dyname and the fan as if between him and the angine there was no hood or board- panel. His eyes got a penetration power identical with the one of the X-rays, because of the lighting up of his car by a UFO. The Curie's discoverede the radium and the existence of 3 different kinds of radioactive radiation emitted by it: , and . When the radioactive disintegration is producing there are instantly emitted radiation. They are specific for the elements that the atom is made of. That radiation can be also obtained by the illumination or the warming of the atomic nucleus at high temperatures. Many times, there been noticed that the ground where the UFOs landed was burnt, but most of it radioactive. The radioactivity emitted by the UFOs is the result of electric processes and not of processes of radioactive disintegration. The electromagnetic radiation from the Universe are the result of thermonuclear process happening in the Sun, stars or galaxies. On the UFOs board there is supposed the existence of quantic generators of radiant electromagnetic energy emitted in thermonuclear process (nuclear fusion). The laser with ruby is a quantic generator having a cylinder of ruby with a surface A silvered to total opacity and a surface B with transparency of 4%. The cylinder is introduced into a cooling tube, then into a spiral-shaped tube, to discharge; that tube contains neon and xenon. The tube is connected to a condensator C of big capacity. In the same time with the discharge, through the tube there are emitted green radiation with a certain wave length. There are quantic generators that function with active medium: solid, liquid or gas, all made to emit electromagnetic radiation. We would create a new type of quantic generators able to absorb or emit any kind of electromagnetic radiation existent in nature. That would be composed of the particle-accelerator, the accelerating-chamber having the electromagnetic polarities: positive S and negative N the source of alimentation with electric energy for the particle-accelerators, the generator G for continuous current, electric circuits and the source of material formed by the particles of the environment. Wouldn't be the emission of pencils of laser-rays by the UFOs and the program of studies on the planet by holography? The holography represents a new method of taking photographic images in the relief without using a camera. The pencil of rays coming from the laser is divided into two penclis by a semi- transparent blade. A wave lights the object and the reference wavw lights directly the photographic plaque. On the holographic plaque there is noticed a process of interference. For the scientists, the Unified Field represents the union of the weak nuclear force and the powerful nuclear force with the electromagnetic force and the force of Gravity. In the Great Union case, there is supposed the possibility of the union of the weak nuclear force (representing the electronic cover of the atom) with the powerful nuclear force (representing the atomic nucleus composed by protons and neutrons) with the electromagnetic force. The nuclear force and the electromagnetic force are milions and milions times biger than the Gravity force, negligible in this case. A space program is very expansive but 80% of the weight of the ship is represented by the tanks of fuel. The solution would to find a system or a mechanism that could allow us to use the energy from the particles of the environment that we want to move into then the cost of such a research program would be really cheaper. The "Corona Effect" represents the emission of the radiations surrounding the ship. That radiation forms a lighting spectrum of electromagnetic wave. According to the Theory of Relativity, the mass of an object would increase of its speed. At the reach of the light-speed, the mass of the ship would be infinite. In this case, the mass of the ship will be constant, being used only the mass of the radiation that protects the ship of the outside factors; that would be negative and infinite. UNIDENTIFIED FLIYING OBJECTS It’s being supposed that the UFOs posses atomic devices on board. In order to emit energy, an atomic needs in first place outside energy produced by lighting or by heating. The electron will pass on a more distant orbit of the nucleus. On this orbit, the electron has a bigger energy, but a less stable position. When it returns to the initial position, the atom will emit the difference of energy. The hydrogen molecule is composed of two atoms, each of them including one proton and one electron, which means a total of two protons and two electrons. The ionization of the whole molecule could be produces by the same method. In the first place, its two atoms will be separated from each other and after this they will be ionized. If the ionization will be complete, we shall find the loose elementary particles, which means plasma. Taking into consideration the utilization of some particle accelerators, the substitution of the spirals made of metal of metal conductors with quartz spirals having primary and auxiliary electrodes, each of them connected trough an inducing resistor R1 & R2 and mercury vaporous, might be a solution. The solenoid is inserted between two tubes: one of them located on the external surface, the other on the internal one. These two tubes protect the solenoid from the thermic influence caused by the air currents and prevent its pollution. The electronic cover is being removed by the “COMPTON” effect and the photons operate directly over the atomic nucleus. The electrical field accelerates the particles but their trajectory will be curved by a magnetic field except for neutrons which don’t have any electrical charge, but only magnetic moments. This iswhy the neutrons move straight ahead, parallel to the axis of the chamber. The electrons and the protons will move in spiral, but in opposite directions, as their electrical charges are opposed. The diameter of the spiral differs because of the difference of the masses. The bigger being the energy of the particle, the bigger being the diameter. The absorption of one atom of nitrogen and one of oxygen - predominant particles in the terrestrial atmosphere - takes place in the accelerating chamber. In the first stage, the electrons orbiting the two atoms are being bombed simultaneously by the photon fascicle and, as a result of this interaction, they are pulled out from their orbits and moved along spiral trajectories having the same direction that the electromagnetic fields has, and located on a peripheral orbit in the accelerating chamber. The loose electrons will appear inside the chamber providing the weak nuclear force. In the second stage, the atoms are ionized, generating in this way the powerful nuclear force. It consists in loose cuclei unwrapped from their electronic cover. The photons interact with the protons, pulling them out from their position. These protons will move in their turn on spiral trajectories in the same direction as that of the electromagnetic field, but opposite to the movement of the electrons. The loose protons will appear inside the accelerating chamber. In the third, the neutrons are bombed in their turn by the photon fascicle being spread in this way. They will move in the direction of the electromagnetic field. The existence of these loose neutrons marks the end of the process meant to create plasma wich, it’s well known, is being characterized as a mixture of loose charges. In the fourth stage, following the above mentioned process and by the directing the particles inside the accelerating chamber, the phosphorus is formed: an atomic structure composed of 15 electrons, 15 protons and 15 neutrons. An energy of 235 MeV is produces at the same time. Along with it we could obtain the union of the weak and strong nuclear force with the electromagnetic force. With the assistance of nuclear fusion we could obtain any type of particle with the desired physical and chemical characteristics. Suppose that we even succeed to achieve a reaction of fusion of two atoms of the same type. For example: carbon plus carbon from which would result magnesium and an emission of energy of 178 MeV. Along with the emission of magnesium particles, we shall have an emission of alpha, beta and gamma radiation. According to the nuclear- fusion table, we could obtain a fusion between copper and gold, out of which would result an element composed of 108 electrons, 108 protons and 108 neutrons - named Epsilon, producing an energy of 39721.67 MeV. We could even challenge the imposible by supplying Nobelium and Lawrencium resulting a new atom composed of 205 electrons, 205 protons and 205 neutrons emitting an energy of 90 776, 921 MeV. Normally, the beta radiation will orient itself identically in the direction of the lines of the magnetic field. A luminous electromagnetic spectrum is created out of the electrons and all the system could be charged electrically negative. The radiant energy produced under the form of light or heat can be absorbed and transformed into electric current. The first two levels transform the light into electric current and the other three levels take over that heat from the first two levels. The heat lost by the cooling process transforms itself into electric current. By closing the space between the coil and the photo/thermo/electric panels, we obtain two atomic systems, one isolated with N and S electromagnetic polarities forming a quantic generator. The quantic generator has three electric circuits: U1, U…, U2. The electrical circuit to start operating is the circuit U2 composed of the source G, the ballast L, inducing resistors R1 and R2 and switches K1, K2, K3 and K4. The source G of continuous electric current feeds the coil with electric energy. This produces energy as well on its external surface in the isolated atomic system, as on its internal surface of the non/isolated atomic system. The luminous radiant energy and the thermic energy produced by the isolated atomic systems is absorbed by the photo-thermo- electric panels that transform it into electric current. The circuit U will indicate the presence of a tension T. At that moment the circuit U2 is closing and the circuit U1 is opening. The circuits U1 is equipped with a potentiometer P connected to clamps A - B of the circuit U, so as to utilize only part of its tension to feed the coil with electric energy. The value of the tension depends on the position of the cursor C, which grows when the cursor moves towards A and decreases when the cursor moves towards B. The use of atomic energy appeared at the same time as the discovery of nuclear fission. The nuclear reactor is composed of the space for the location of uranium, the reflector of neutrons, a layer of protection, bars of cadmium or bar. Water is used for cooling the uranium and the steam resulting from its boiling starts putting into movement the turbine of a generator. The reduced siye of the UFOs makes us suppose that they use the nuclear energy produced by the radioactive process of disintegration with the form of radioactive process of disintegration with the form of radioactive radiation. 1590 years is the life of one gram of radium: that is half of the existing nucleus will disintegrated and tne other half needs 1590 years more. Using the principales of emission of radioactive energy and that of absorption of energy by the photo-thermo-electric panels, we suppose that we could achieve a photo-thermo-*electric nuclear generator which would transform radioactive energy into the electric current. The photo-thermo-electric generator could be formed out of: metal or radioactive waste, photo-thermo-electric panels, electric clamps and two protecting layers. The UFOs are disc/shaped, cylindrical or triangular, they have no wings or any other known appliances. The UFOs could be composed out of the main part of the vessel, the auxiliary device and the quantic device of propulsion. The auxiliary mechanism is composed out of two electromagnetic shells located on the external part of the vessel, one on the upper part and the other on the lower part, and they are put into action by the electromagnets. The quantic device of propulsion is composed out of eight horiyontal quantic generators (1) which are fixed into the conecting star (2), and to a vertical quantic generator (3) that is fixed to the lower part of the connecting star. The quantic generators end outside the vessel with the tips of the mechanism (4). The vertical movement can take place putting into action the external electromagnetic shells, so that they should rotate each in an opposite direction. The non/isolated atomic systems have on the external part of the vessel a positive electromagnetic polarity S and inside, a negative electromagnetic polarity N. A vertical propulsion of energy is obtained which is composed out of a few nuclear particles issued under the form beta, alpha and gamma radiation. For a horiyontal movement the electromagnetic polarities of the non/isolated atomic systems have to changed. There should exist five atomic systems with positive electromagnetic polarity S, external to the vessel in the direction of the progress, and inside the vessel the negative electromagnetic polarity N in the opposite direction of the course: there should exist inside the vessel threee non-isolated atomic systems with positive electromagnetic polarity S and outside the vessel, there should be a negative electromagnetic polarity N obtaining in this way a jet of propulsion under the form of reaction. The "CORONA" effect at the UFOs is represented by the luminous radiation composed out of electrons which have a negative electrical charge, a fact from which it results that the UFOs are loaded externally negatively from the electrical point of view. The giant UFO would be composed also of the vessel, the auxiliary mechanism and the quantic mechanism of propulsion. The auxiliary mechanism is composed of two propellers operated by an electric motor. These electric motors are raised or lowered according to the needs along with the propeller by a transmission device formed of a helicoidal gearing composed out of a geared wheel and bar. The quantic mechanism of propulsion is formed of lateral - horizontal quantic generators, vertical quantic generators: frontal - horizontal quantic generators, vertical quantic generators, quantic cross, quantic coupling, quantic tips. A variable number of atmoic systems with positive electromagnetic polarities S and negative n are obtained for each system separately. As for modifying the direction of the vessel's movement, it is necessary to modify the positive electromagnetic polarity S and the negative N, as well as the intensity o these atomic systems. The result of the future space researches could be available to everybody enabling to travel anywhere in the universe before the end of our time. Je appelle Manoliu Valentin et habite dans le boulevard Prelungirea Ghenceanr nr.34, bloc M7, scara A, etaj 3, apartament 20, sectorul 6 Bucure;ti, telephone 778 44 71 et la rue Ţibleş nr 32 sectorul 6 Bucureşti, telephone 637 08 27, communique vous que MAFIA qui instaure l’anne 1989 dans la ROMANIA, le front avec le President de la ROMANIA ION ILIESCU se lutte pour discredite et le mien destruction et ma famille. Dans le date 22 10 1996, non travaille, j’ai ne travaille pas dans la ROMANIA. Je suis retrogradation et suspendu de direction de la REGIA AUTONOMĂ LOCATO, de service dans la mode abusif jusque le date 02 04 2001, quand je suis rengage, seulement pour le trois mois, pour comme ensuite, je suis jete dans la rue avec cinq les enfants, sans le service, sans le salaire et sans le maison, dans le present habite avec loye, parce que, j’ai divulque des nombreux abusif et acte illegal execute, de direction RA LOCATO( regard, www.ziua.net 04 avril 2002, MAFIA CASELOR STERGE URMELE, pag.3 et a pag. 11 OVNI a TULNICI) Direction RA LOCATO, Gouvernement de la ROMANIA, Parlement de la ROMANIA et Ministere de justice refuse le payer mon legitime et dedommagement le salaire pour le periode retrogradation, suspendu et rengage (pour le trios mois) a RA LOCATO et quoique j’ai le titre execution de la TRIBUNAL BUCAREST pour mon rengage a RA LOCATO, mais le direction RA LOCATO refuse mon rengage pour le travaille. Gouvernement de la ROMANIA, Parlement de la ROMANIA, Minister de Justice et le direction de parti PDSR-PSD connaitre mon probleme, mais ils refuse le solutionner mon probleme et le direction RA LOCATO dans le front avec MIRCEA STAN qui il a vouloir devalise la richesse de la RA LOCATO et destruction au assassiner les hommes innocent parce que il est membre du parti PDSR- PSD et EMIL PATRICHI aussi membre du parti PDSR-PSD, beau- frere avec le premier ministre ADRIAN N=C3STASE. Toutefois, je suis chasse et accuse pour entier abusive et acte illegal execute des direction RA LOCATO le tems de 12 l’annee, 1989- 2002. Le President de la ROMANIA ION ILIESCU, le premier ministre de GOVERNEMENT de la ROMANIA ADRIAN N=C3STASE, VIOREL HREBENCIUC, TEODOR MELEŞCANU, IOSIF BODA,…, ils sont implication dans le lave de l’argent dans le cas international de FRANCE avec ADRIAN COSTEA le fait l’attention et de la presse francaise =AB le PARISIEN en ligne =BB l’article ecrite de LAURENT VALDIQUIE, dans avril- mai 2000. Firme STAR TRADE INVEST propietaire ADRIAN COSTEA il est questionne de autorite francaise et il est implique dans l’affaire JIMBOLIA, operation des contrebandes avec des gas-oil dans SERBIA, le periode EMBARGO institution de ONU dans le temp de la querre de BOSNIA-HERŢEGOVINA. Aussi ils sont implique, dans le trafic d’armament et le president du SENAT de la ROMANIA NICOLAE VĂCĂROIU. Dans1993 le directeur AEROFINA monsieur PETRE NICOLAE (implique dans cette trafique d’armament) avec sa femme ils sont assassine avec de ferocite dans leur appartement de quartie BĂNEASA. Le President de la ROMANIA ION ILIESCU et le GUVERNEMENT de la ROMANIA est implique dans le grand pillage et corruption national, dans le cas SORIN OVIDIU V=C2NTU. SORIN OVIDIU VANTU organise l’assassine le chef a service des information exterieur(SIE) CĂTĂLIN HARNAGEA, DAN ANDRONIC, DAN FISCHER, COSTEL BOBIC et le president de journal ROM=C2NIA LIBERĂ monsieur PETRE MIHAI BĂCANU(regard www.romanialibera.com 11 decembrie 2001). Hauteux est que CONSEIL DE L’EUROPE accepter par VIOREL HREBENCIUC membre dans cette CONSEIL DE L’EUROPE quand il est implique dans :- dossie penal APARTAMENTUL,- operation des contrabandes avec de gas-oil, -lave de l’argent, -trafique d’armament, -pillage et corruption national. Cette hommes chasse moi pour leur action. Je sollicite pour le presente mon cas le agence de presse international et CONSEIL DE L’EUROPE a STRASBOURG, Amnesti International, aussi je sollicite ASILE POLITIQUE dans votre pays au autre pays. -- www.oznufo.go.ro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:18:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:52:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:09:05 -0400 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:24:00 -0500 >>Subject: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? <snip> >Bobbie, >You have mis-classified a very dangerous substance (DMT) as a >"recreational" drug. You have also mis-interpreted what was said >in the the text book you are quoting. I did not classify the drug. I quoted from a "Recreational Drug Information" website. Hence, use of the term "recreational drug". <snip> >More to the point you are 'trying' to make: You cannot effectively address the point I was trying to make because you apparently missed the point I was making. The point was not whether this or that illegal "recreational" drug could be a cause of abduction experience. The point was that anyone who had a history of drug abuse/drug addiction should be weeded out of a study on abduction. It is a matter of credibility, not a matter of pharmacology. As you've stated repeatedly, why give detractors ground sto tear apart a study? Prior drug abuse/addiction speaks to the credibility of a person's story, and should thus be excluded from any _serious_ study of abduction claims, in my opinion. Why give fuel to the debunker's fire? Makes sense to me Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:49:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:54:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - Felder >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:32:11 -0600 >Greetings to the List Members: >Arrangements have been made with Steven Kaeser to post the audio >file of the Hickson/Parker interview on a site that you may go >to to download the entire 30 minute interview. As soon as Steven >receives the CD, he will upload it and we'll post the link you >can go to for downloading on UFO UpDates. <snip> Hi Wendy. Thank you for making this information so readily available. I look forwarding to downloading the file and hearing it. A couple of questions regarding this: 1 - Do Hickson and Parker know that this tape is being made public? 2 - If so, what was their reaction when they learned of its impending release? Thanks Bobbie "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Gutierez From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:12:00 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:00:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Gutierez >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:25:43 +0600 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >completely invalid as a weeding tool. Additionally, If 50% of >the 90 (?) or so recent DMT takers in a genuine drug study by >a Dr. Steadman (I think that's his name) ...subjects not >known to one another, report seeing the same little shadow >creatures something might be up. Hello, I am Gregory Gutierez, new subscriber to the List. This is my first e-mail to UFO UpDates. Alfred, you're talking about Dr. Rick Strassman (not Steadman). His book is: 'DMT: The Spirit Molecule: A Doctor's Revolutionary Research Into The Biology Of Near-Death And Mystical Experiences' See also : http://www.rickstrassman.com Strassman don't claim the volunteers in his DMT study actually had an abduction, but some of them reported "trips" that included abduction-like experiences. No flying saucers in these accounts, but you sure can find strange alien beings, mostly insect-like or reptilian, nursery room, medical studies on the poor human, deep space and even a giant spaceship. Other volunteers had other trips, like NDE-like trips or OBE- like trips. One of the strangest range of accounts is the one with "clowns" performing shows during the trips ! Below are some accounts one can find in Strassman's book. Strassman thinks that DMT could be naturally produced by the brain in situations of very big stress. Thus, maybe, explaining at least some of the abductions stories. Best Regards, Gregory Gutierez Paris, France http://greguti.free.fr/aleph (french-spealing mail-list for fortean weirdos) ----- The first trip was lots of spinning colors. I was scared, but I kept telling myself: ?Relax, surrender, embrace?. Then I saw what I can only describe as a Las Vegas-Casino type of scene, all flashing and whirling lights. I was rather disappointed. Here I am expecting this profound spiritual experience and I get Las Vegas ! But then, before I had much time to be desappointed, I "flew" on and saw clowns performing. They were like toys, or animated clowns. I had the overwhelming urge to laugh. I was kind of self-conscious about it at first, but I couldn't contain myself and I laughed out loud watching those clowns. Rick told me the clowns are a common experience. In fact he said "Oh ! You saw the clowns ?" as if they were old friends or something. Then he said, "Yes, they are hilarious." I felt more confident and not as scared. DMT, The Spirit Molecule, p.213 That was real strange. There were a lot of elves. They were prankish, ornery, maybe four of them appeared at the side of a stretch of interstate highway I travel regularly. They commanded the scene, it was their terrain ! They were about my height. They held up placards, showing me these incredibly beautiful, complex, swirling geometric scenes in them. One of them made it impossible for me to move. There was no issue of control; they were totally in control. They wanted me to look : I heard a giggling sound - the elves laughing or takling at high-speed volume, chattering, twittering. First there was a mandala-like series of visuals, fleur-de-lys- type visions. Then an insect-like thing got into my face, hovering over me as the drug was going in. This thing sucked me out of my head into outer space. It was clearly outer space, a black sky with millions of stars. I was in a very large waiting room, or something. It was very long. I felt observed by the insect-thing and others like it. Then they lost interest. I was taken into space and looked at. DMT, The Spirit Molecule, p.189 It was a nursery. A high-tech nursery with a single Gumby, three feet tall, attending me. I felt like an infant. Not a human infant, but an infant relative to the intelligences represented by the Gumby. It was aware of me, but not particularly concerned. Sort of a detached concern, like a parent would feel looking into a playpen at his one-year-old lying there. As I went into it, I heard a sound : hmmmm. Then I heard two to three male voices talking. I heard one of them say, "He's arrived". I felt evolution occuring. These intelligences are looking over us. There is hope beyond the mess we are making for ourselves. I couldn't change the experience at all. I couldn't have anticipated it or even imagined it. It was a total surprise ! I tried to open to love but that was silly. All I could do was observe it. That was much more intense that the first major dose. It's a different world. Amazing instruments. Machine-type things. There was one person operating some of this stuff. I was in a big room; he was in another part of it. I feel a little shaky... a little hypersensitive... there are little tremors going throught my body. There was one big machine in the center, with round conduits, almost writhing - not like a snake, more in a technical manner. The conduits were not open at the end. They were solid blue-gray tubes, made of plastic ? The machine felt as if it was rewiring me, reprogramming me. There was a human, as far as I could tell, standing at some type of console, taking readings or manipulating things. He was busy, at work, on the job. I observed some of the results on that machine, maybe from my brain. It was a little frightening, almost unbearably intense. It all began with a whining, whirring sound. Dmt : The Spirit Molecule, p.193-194
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 19 Magonia Online - Nazi UFO Mythos From: Mark Pilkington <m.pilkington@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:14:04 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:03:08 -0400 Subject: Magonia Online - Nazi UFO Mythos New At Magonia Online The Nazi UFO Mythos http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/abwatch/naziufo/naziufo1.html Kevin McClure's important and extremely detailed analysis of the legends surrounding Nazi flying disc technologies. A must-read. Plus: The Conspiracy Back in 1981 Roger Sandell wrote this overview of the then- burgeoning conspiracy culture. 20 years later, little has changed... Apocalypse When? Roger Sandell appraises the writings of the ever-popular Nostradamus. A Polish Nostradamus Wojtek Gaworzewski on a little-known Polish prophet. If You Go Down to the Woods Tonight John Harney takes another look at the controversial Travis Walton abduction. UFOs & the Media Dr Chris French on the plight of the sceptical ufologist confronted by the media. -- Mark Pilkington m.pilkington@virgin.net --------------------------------------------------- "W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie." --------------------------------------------------- http://www.strangeattractor.co.uk :Strange Attractor http://www.forteantimes.com :Fortean Times online http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk :Magonia online http://www.kosmische.org :Kosmische Club
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:53:55 +0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 06:17:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Lehmberg >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:25:43 +0600 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? <snip> >Oddly - taking into account generations of psychoactive >substance use by peoples a little more principled than what is >served up in western civilization generally, it may be >completely invalid as a weeding tool. Additionally, If 50% of >the 90 (?) or so recent DMT takers in a genuine drug study by a >Dr. Steadman (I think that's his name) ...subjects not known to >one another, report seeing the same little shadow creatures, >something might be up. Bobbie; ...Not Steadman - Strassman... Dr. Rick Strassman, University of New Mexico Medical School, Department of Psychiatry, 2400 Tucker Avenue NE Alburquerque, NM, USA, 87131. Startling stuff... and it "don't mean they ain't 'real'..." [g]. <snip> Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Interesting Quote From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:08:41 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 06:19:37 -0400 Subject: Interesting Quote I wanted to share with the List an interesting quote appended to a business e-mail from a Canadian bookseller (I have been boosting the Canadian economy): "Being right too soon is socially unacceptable." - Robert Heinlein Dick Hall American ETH ufologist
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:16:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 06:31:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:13:29 +0600 >Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:55:50 -0400 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:24:12 +0600 >>>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:02:24 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:30:38 +0600 >>>>>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>>>Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>><snip> >>>That was one if your more inclusive snips, John. >>>>Hello Alfred, >>>>Warning: Lengthy post ahead. Proceed at your own risk. :) >>Hello Alfred, >>Just trying to save bandwidth! It wasn't a 'critique' or >>comment on the Ode. >Gawd! ...Just wish I'd get one of _those_ (I'd have been >shickled tinkless!)! But what I'm talking about is very seldom >critiqued or commented on, so, that's obviously not the problem >here. >>Errol hosts my website on his Virtually Strange >>Network so I'm always very attentive (aware) about how much >>bandwidth (of his) I am eating up. Hi Alfred, Ok, I'll chew up some bandwidth just for you. :) You wrote: >Snippage is not the problem, John, it's the lack of _discussion_ >on the snippage replaced by artful-dodger appeals to coherency >(masking reluctance to address foundational issues, gripes, and >concerns) that's so bothersome, frustrating, and depressing. Tell me what some of these "foundational issues, gripes and concerns" are that are not being addressed. (in your view.) We'll address them here. I've got nothing better to do and nobody I'd rather do it with. :) >>I've always been one of the Odes' series biggest fans. You know >>that. >I do, John. You're the first guy that heard what I was saying in >cyberspace, didn't write me off as a pretentious cyber-loon, >max-zoom dweeb, or public whacko and (ironically!) found a way >to include me in your sector of the known universe... I have to >wonder, though, if I'd make your cut if I appeared on the scene >today... Why should time make a difference Alfred. They're every bit as good if not better than they ever were. All I said was; I don't always agree with everything that is in em. I _always_ let you know too! But that doesn't take away from my enjoyment or appreciation of them. Or you. We have different styles, Alfred. Yours comes through in your Odes. My way is more blunt. I am more direct, as right to the point (nitty-gritty) as I can be, each and every time. We may disagree on certain issues or certain people but I have never questioned your style, motives or integrity. Something you have recently granted yourself permission to do with me. >All I've ever said is that we were both on the same side of the >aggregate struggle, and that together we were more than the sum >of our aggregate parts. That's true a lot more often than it's >not. And barring misinterpretations that's exactly what is going on here. :) A big part of the current problem is that constructive criticism is being misconstrued as destructive criticism. As an example; the current discussion surrounding the proposed medical study of abductees has been ignored for the most-part by every researcher on this List. With the exception of one or two who made some comments about it. (Paid it lip-service) I am the only one who has pointed out the weaknesses and, in some cases fatal flaws in it - pointing the way toward what it needs and how to tighten it up so that the results are not dismissed or laughed at. How to "bullet-proof" the thing. Alfred, I tried to do the same thing several years ago. The difference between that, and this is; I went out of my way to contact the most knowledgeable and experienced people I could find. I needed to first determine what the correct way to proceed and to learn what needed to be done in order to have such a study acknowledged and accepted by the mainstream scientific/academic community. (More on them later in this post) Everything I have carefully detailed, all of the _major_ flaws I have pointed out, are being interpreted as expressions of ego or a need to control rather than the _practical_ (and sorely needed) counsel that it is. Instead of it motivating people to take measures to correct the flaws (in the name of insuring the integrity and success of the project) people who don't even know me choose to focus on 'me' rather than what I'm saying. On 'how' it is being said rather than 'what' is being said. They make the very personal accusation that my motives are ego based while claiming that I am the one who is personally fouling them. Read my posts. Bass ackwards man. I don't give a rats-ass about what most others think. But you know me long enough and well enough to know that my motives are straight from the heart and that 'ego gratification' or getting 'credit' for myself is not among them. I care about seeing that anything connected to abductees (of which I am one) gets done right, so that it succeeds in achieving some benefit to the experiencers. Whether that be in the form of reliable data/information or some kind of assurance and comfort on a more personal level. Whose name is on anything means nothing to me. That it is done right and benefits/respects the subjects (abductees) does mean everything to me. A study that will be shot down based on 'integrity' and procedural flaws will benefit no one in the end. What good are the results going to be if they get dismissed over lack of adherence to accepted procedures and basic protocols? If you go back to the lengthy and detailed posts I have taken the time to write regarding those issues you will see that there is nothing 'personal' anywhere in any of it. From my end it is all about this proposed study and the proper way to conduct it - whatever it will take to _insure_ it's success as a study. So that it may actually benefit some experiencers in the end. My comments have had nothing to do with whatever results/ findings are made. All suggestions and criticisms have been strictly procedural. I have sat back and enjoyed a private laugh every time I hear somebody whining and 'pining away about how nobody cares, how nobody is responding, helping or paying attention. While all the time and effort I have poured into writing and suggesting ways to improve and strengthen the thing have been completely ignored. Not _once_ has anyone claimed that anything I have said about it is invalid. The preferred interpretation of those who feel threatened by the things I point out/say is: that I am objecting only because I have a personal axe to grind or because my massive ego won't allow for it. Convenient, but self-serving, stupid and wasteful. You of all people ought to know me better. >One thing I've had to internalize over the years is that it's >not always _me_ that's going to have the good idea [g]. Another shot that I am acting from ego and not my intelligence or experience. Your mistake and their loss. More than anybody else on the List I have made sound and valuable procedural suggestions all along. Ego eh? Funny how some people 'choose' to see things. I repeat: _You_ ought to know better than to even think it of me. >it is a richness of >open forthcoming-ness leading to fairer play which precipitates >the truly open ended wonders of our present age. You, busily >passionate about pouring a bucket of water on anything which >does not have your stamp of, even committed, approval, Sorry that you see it that way. My involvement here, in public, is restricted to anything connected to the UFO/abduction phenom. I care deeply and for reasons I have been stating for years on this List. I always put out my best regardless, of how it may interpreted or received by someone else. I'm not concerned in the least with popularity or acceptance as some others are. My own concerns lie with truth, honesty and _competence._ None of which has anything to do with my imposing my will, or my name, on anyone or anything. Maybe you need to rap with a couple of people who really know me in order to appreciate the absurdity of any indictment that accuses me of acting in public re: abduction or abductees, out of petty ego. I feel a great deal of responsibility towards others especially about how I conduct myself in public. Because of the label "abductee" I know that others are being judged by some by how I conduct myself in public. I only wish that some other "abductees" were as thoughtful about it. >does not provide for a rich enough diversity, tastes a little >flat, and seems minus a little of the 'art' and 'music' _any_ >enterprise has to have to be effective, useful, lasting, and >satisfying. Nothing "lasting" comes from anything "slipshod". Quality in, quality out. Garbage in, garbage out. Cosmic Law. >Moreover, pandering to a mainstream that opposes you in spirit >is just a demonstration that you are _not_ aware that it is >shining you on! Pandering? Alfred, the "mainstream" is why we're all here working so hard. "We" (some of us) already know that something major is going on. "They" (the mainstream masses) do not. I work for them (the 'masses') and their edification. If you consider it 'pandering' then there's not much I can do about that. I'm going about my business in a way that 'accommodates' them. In _any_ way that will allow _them_ to see the same light that _blinds_us. >As far as a hijacked mainstream is concerned (?), you are >track-dogs chasing the mainstreams electric rabbit. You're not >_meant_ to shake that reality in your teeth, that 'mainstream' >ceases to be if you do... The point of all revolution is to shake that reality in its teeth. I consider my self a revolutionary not a "track-dog" chasing mechanical rabbits. You're pointing fingers at the wrong guy here. Maybe you meant somebody else. You don't get as far from "mainstream" as me kid. At least in terms of my 'public' role. >What's the alternative? Well, what did the Blacks and other >minorities do against injustice, infidelity, and canted playing >fields? What have women done? What have Jews done. What have >gay people done? All GREAT strides in the last fifty years. >Civil action, activism, organization, and BECOME (re-capture) >the mainstream? Abby Hoffman would have _killed_ to have the >internet, forgetting that he assisted, obliquely, in making it >happen... It's happening all around us Alfred. Just too many people with personal needs and agendas around distracting from the real work at hand. Which is; raising public awareness about the reality of the presence of UFOs and their occupants on our world. >Proactive activity, fomented by efficacious thinkers (creative >sociophiles) and transmitted by artists and writers to an >abused, *truth* hungry, rank and file... I'm not necessarily >putting myself very high in any of these categories. But I do >aspire to them, as I'm sure you do. Nothing less. And as you know, a 'portal' that requires one to leave 'ego' at the door. It's one of the reasons why I resent that accusation so much. I go out of my way to keep myself (my name or involvement) in the background or out of it completely with just about everything I do. As a recent example; ask EBK how I agonized over having my name connected to the International petition, and only because I thought my being connected to it (as an abductee) might hurt it in some way. That is 'par' for how I approach any project connected to abductees. The focus is and should be on them and what's best for them. Not me or any other single individual. >>Let's call it a 5 by 5 (even) and move on. :) >That's what synergy is all about, dude! Open _your_ arms. Open _yours!_ Mine are always open. I'm just a bit more discriminating than yourself about 'how long' the hug lasts once I know 'who' I am hugging. Tramp! You'll hug any smelly body that gets in your path! <lol> Here's a big open arm hug' for you. "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" John Velez ;) Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: British Government and UFOs - Clarke From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:18:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:41:04 -0400 Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs - Clarke >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:26:08 +0100 >>From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:01:03 +0100 >>Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs >Andy, I am sure you will appreciate that the posts from Joe et >al, were in fact a series of insults, and the questions posed >were based on preconceived and mistaken ideas that we had stolen >your research for our article. >I obtained the secret documents from the MOD as part of my >ongoing research into the UFO subject. I also obtained the file >numbers of the top secret documents from the MOD and Nick Pope >and I obtained these and other documents from the PRO. Georgina's posts on how she and an enterprising member of the MoD came into possession of documents dealing with the Flying Saucer Working Party have been both interesting and amusing. Interesting because, as we have pointed out, they show how easy it is to appropriate other people's findings without acknowledging them and amusing because of the way in which she has chosen to answer every question put to her but the ones that are relevant. So, in the interests of clarity, we re-iterate a few points: - No one disputes that Georgina and Nick obtained their copies of the documents by writing to the MoD, going to the PRO etc. - What is in dispute is what prompted them to write to the MoD in the first place - were they, or were they not, aware of the existence of these documents before they were revealed in The Observer and flyingsaucery.com in October 2001? - Georgina and Nick have consistently refused to acknowledge that we were the finders of these extremely important documents and have wiggled and wormed rather pathetically in an poor attempt to convince the UFOlogical community that they were found independently from our efforts. If Georgina and Nick still dispute the above facts then once again, in the interests of honesty, we challenge them to produce documentary evidence that they had knowledge of these documents _prior_ to our disclosure in the Observer. Whilst this may seem to be labouring the point there are clear implications for research implicit in Georgina and Nick's prevarications. Surely the origin of _any_ important documents in any area of historical research should be credited to the finders. But unfortunately, in this field particularly, petty jealousies and conflicting beliefs lead people to twist matters for their own ends. As to Georgina's insistence that this argument is only publicity for our new book, she is wrong. It is about presenting facts correctly and honestly to the public. If Ufologists can't get their facts straight about the origin of documents, then what hope is there for any veracity in their UFO research? Happy trails, Dave Clarke and Andy Roberts
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: British Government and UFOs - Clarke From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:26:36 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:43:06 -0400 Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs - Clarke >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:26:08 +0100 >>From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:01:03 +0100 >>Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs >It is true that we disagree with your debunking tactics, >especially those of your colleague David Clarke, but this had >nothing to do with our decision to publish when we did. Hi Georgina, Is this the Royal "we" or does this disagreement extend to your writing partner Nick Pope, who in a letter he sent to me concerning one of my case investigations, said: >I'm very impressed with the work that you have done in >putting together this comprehensive and balanced report, >which is just the sort of proper investigation that's normally >conspicuous by its absence in UFOlogy. Check "comprehensive" and "balanced" in your dictionary, Georgina. You'll find they aren't associated with debunking, but with objective reporting of facts. Try it sometime, it doesn't hurt. Best, Dave Clarke
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 'Archival Safekeeping Depository' From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:01:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:50:01 -0400 Subject: 'Archival Safekeeping Depository' Errol, All I came across this little tid bit in a book I read recently, what do you make of it? ---- .. To those few who are aware of its existence, it is known as ASD (Archival Safekeeping Depository) Thousands of secrets are buried away in the seemingly unending archival storage bins of the depository. For some strange reason, known only to certain very few bureaucrats, entire sections of the depository hold classified material and objects that will never be revealed to the public. The bones of Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan and Japanese records of their execution on Saipan, the secret conspiracy files of both Kennedy assassinations, the intelligence of Soviet sabotage behind American rocket and Shuttle accidents and the retaliation at Chernobyl, staged films of the Apollo moon landing hoax, and much, much more - it was all filed away, never to see the light of day. ---- Now I am not a conspiracy nut, but this sort of stuff has a certain ring about it that begs further investigation. -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:34:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:00:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Jones >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:22:24 +0100 >Subject: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? Evening Eric, All >I have been asked to post the following important statement by >Philip Mantle and Tim Matthews: >Thursday 18th April 2002 >As a result of recent and renewed interest in the 'Alien Autopsy' >film engendered by the publication of new evidence in UFO >Magazine (UK and USA) and publications in France and Russia, a >new witness has come forward who claims to have seen film >footage from an incident relating specifically to the AA >scenario. >The witness says he saw the footage in the 1950s and was shown >it by his father who, it is claimed, filmed the incident, parts >of which Ray Santilli purchased later on. >We have some intriguing detail on this man's father, his >military record, serial/rank number and so on. >It remains to be seen exactly where this will lead but it just >goes to show that investigations are never entirely complete. >We will be discussing all this and more at the BUFOSC Conference >in Runcorn, Cheshire, this Saturday, 20th April. >Thank you. >Philip Mantle & Tim Matthews Eric, since your conference is a nice seven hour drive away could you tell me if you will be selling recording of the conference? I attended one of your conferences a few years ago with Jerry Anderson, you may remember because he talked about the 'Michael Howard' case here in Kent, investigated by UFOMEK - now headed up by Chris Rolfe, who now happens to be making his voice heard on this List. If I recollect, it was when I first time met Andy Roberts in person, and a few others of the Northern UFO Network (what ever happened to them? Oh yeah, they became (and went) UFOIN didn't they). Without wanting to start another heated-debate with Andy and company (been there, done that) there does seem to be some kind of a North/South divide within British Ufology. Along with Chris's sentiments, I think this bitching and in-fighting really does need to stop. To cross Threads a bit, I wish Andy Roberts would be a little less direct and blunt. I know plenty of Northern people and I know how direct northern people can be, and sometimes us softee Southerners <g> find it a little less palatable than we are used to, especially those who have governmental white collar workers for close associates. I don't know Georgina Bruni, or Nick Pope personally, nor have I met either, so I can't vouch for or, deny their claims of honesty over the discovery of certain documents, but I feel that if Andy was a little less abrasive - I have no problem with him being loud, if he is right - but a little less abrasive would help him a lot methinks, but I also agree with him on the score of recognition. For, if he and Dave Clarke _where_ the discoverers of certain documents, then yes has a right to make a noise if due credit is not given. Knowing neither parties well enough to make a reasonable stab at who is telling porkie pies, I will wait for the dust to settle and then take stock, and review afresh. (IMHO) Anyway, rant aside, Eric, could you please send me details so that I can purchase either a video, or an audio-tape of the conference please. Warmest regards to all. Sean
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:36:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:04:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - Jones >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:32:11 -0600 >Greetings to the List Members: >Arrangements have been made with Steven Kaeser to post the audio >file of the Hickson/Parker interview on a site that you may go >to to download the entire 30 minute interview. As soon as Steven >receives the CD, he will upload it and we'll post the link you >can go to for downloading on UFO UpDates. >Hopefully, by having the CD file downloadable, it will be >virtually free to anyone desiring a copy. <snip> I would just like to say that it is damn decent of Wendy (& co) to make this recording freely available to all. (To listen to, but not profit from!) Warmest Regards, Sean
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 1956 04:07:01 +0200????? Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:08:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:32:11 -0600 >Greetings to the List Members: >Arrangements have been made with Steven Kaeser to post the audio >file of the Hickson/Parker interview on a site that you may go >to to download the entire 30 minute interview. As soon as Steven >receives the CD, he will upload it and we'll post the link you >can go to for downloading on UFO UpDates. >Hopefully, by having the CD file downloadable, it will be >virtually free to anyone desiring a copy. >Notice: Please remember that although I have enhanced the >recording to remove extraneous background noise, etc., it came >from a substandard recording and the original tape was severely >deteriorated. It is listenable, but I suggest that you will need >to listen to it several times in order for your ears to >attenuate and you may want to experiment with adjusting the bass >and treble on your equipment to find the best levels for you. Hello Wendy, I'm happy that you are releasing this historic recording. Since I am in the audio side of the arts I want to put out a suggestion if it is not too late. I don't know if the tape was run through software that would take away any noise, etc, properly improve and equalize the frequencies across the audio spectrum. Any music recording studio should have the equipment that, at a very low cost, could make that recording have the best fidelity when put on a CD or uploaded. In the studio I have re-mastered music from old tapes or records that came out sounding great. There is also consumer software available that you can use on most computers. Even if it has already been transferred from the tape to a CD without processing, your partner or someone can dump that into a computer, process it, and you have the best sounding CDs. Thanks, Josh
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Secrecy News -- 04/19/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:23:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:11:08 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/19/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 33 April 19, 2002 ** DECLASSIFICATION AND THE OFFICE OF HOMELAND SECURITY ** CRS VIEWS COUNTERTERRORISM IMPACTS ON SCIENCE, INFO POLICY ** SENATE RESOLUTION SEEKS RETURN OF USS PUEBLO DECLASSIFICATION AND THE OFFICE OF HOMELAND SECURITY The Office of Homeland Security's limited authority to declassify information may impede its effective operation, according to testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee this week. Paul Light, director of governmental studies at the Brookings Institution, presented an inventory of problems that prevent the Office of Homeland Security (OHS) from efficiently collecting, analyzing and disseminating essential security information. One of those problems, he said, was inadequate declassification authority. "Although the Office of Homeland Security has ample authority to classify information as 'top secret,' it does not have parallel authority to order the immediate declassification of information that it deems in the national interest," Dr. Light told the Committee. This is an erroneous formulation of the problem, however. The OHS Director, who was granted Top Secret original classification authority by executive order 13228, does have parallel authority to order declassification. More precisely, the OHS Director, like other agency heads, has full authority to declassify information that was classified by him or his OHS subordinates. It is also true, however, that he, like other agency heads, lacks the authority to declassify information that was originally classified by other agencies. "You are correct that the [OHS Director's] authority to classify information includes the authority to declassify that information," said Steven Garfinkel, former director of the Information Security Oversight Office. However, "He may not declassify information ... he has received from another agency." Not even the National Security Adviser has independent authority to unilaterally declassify information originated by other agencies. "Since the National Security Adviser is now deemed to be an adviser to the President only, and does not exercise agency-like functions, I believe it is correct to say that her declassification authority is limited to NSC-originated information," said Mr. Garfinkel, who stressed that he was speaking as a private individual and not in any official capacity. In any case, the intriguing question raised by Dr. Light's testimony is whether the OHS Director should have extraordinary authority to declassify other agencies' information. "The Office of Homeland Security has a special obligation to examine information through a very broad lens and from a vantage point that no other agency of government has," said Dr. Light. Accordingly, it is sensible to ask whether this special obligation should be accompanied by special authorities. Mr. Garfinkel said no. "I do not believe it would be a good idea to give the Director of Homeland Security or anyone other than the President blanket declassification authority over another agency's classified information." For one thing, he suggested, it probably wouldn't work. "There are some agencies that might be willing to provide that authority in limited prescribed circumstances, but others that would never agree to do so," he said. But there is reason to believe that expanding declassification authority beyond the originating agency can lead to a more efficient and more disciplined classification program. Thus, the Interagency Security Classification Appeals Panel has had a significant impact on improving classification practice through its decisions to overturn dozens of agency classification actions. Even the CIA, the most recalcitrant of agencies, has grudgingly had to accept the Panel's direction. Expanding authority to declassify would also help to signal to agencies that they are merely custodians of national security information, not its owners. The case has not yet been made that the still-evolving Office of Homeland Security actually requires expanded declassification authority to perform its functions. But such authority certainly ought to remain an option if needed. The prepared testimony from the April 17 Senate Judiciary Committee hearing entitled "Should the Office of Homeland Security Have More Power? A Case Study in Information Sharing" may be found here: http://www.senate.gov/~judiciary/hearing.cfm?id=229 CRS VIEWS COUNTERTERRORISM IMPACTS ON SCIENCE, INFO POLICY A new Congressional Research Service (CRS) report surveys the real and potential impacts of official counterterrorism activities on information policy, scientific research, and academic life. The 52 page report comprehensively and dispassionately addresses limits on access to scientific information, restrictions on research laboratories and biological agents, potential new exemptions to the Freedom of Information Act, and impacts on foreign students at U.S. universities. See "Possible Impacts of Major Counter Terrorism Security Actions on Research, Development, and Higher Education" by CRS specialist Genevieve J. Knezo, dated April 8 (courtesy of InsideDefense.com) here: http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31354.pdf SENATE RESOLUTION SEEKS RETURN OF USS PUEBLO A Senate Resolution introduced yesterday would demand the return of the USS Pueblo to the United States Navy. The Pueblo, a U.S. intelligence vessel, was attacked and captured by the North Korean Navy on January 23, 1968. One crew member was killed in the incident and the remainder were held captive for 11 months. The ship itself was kept as a sort of trophy by North Korea, and is on display in Pyongyang. The Senate resolution, introduced by Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-CO), calls for the ship's return. "At issue here isn't the value of the ship," said Sen. Campbell. "At issue is the honor of America and the record of those who proudly served and were illegal captives by North Korea, a nation which seeks the destruction of America." See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_cr/s041802.html Declassified documents tracing the tense policy deliberations over the fate of the Pueblo in 1968 were published in the U.S. State Department's Foreign Relations of the United States, 1964- 1968, volume XXIX, Part 1. See documents 212 through 331 here: http://www.state.gov/www/about_state/history/vol_xxix/index.html ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 EW: 04-19-02 Top Cop Wins 'Big Brother' Award From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:07:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:14:10 -0400 Subject: EW: 04-19-02 Top Cop Wins 'Big Brother' Award ----------------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior : Web Log April 19, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com TOP COP WINS "BIG BROTHER" AWARD DUBIOUS KENNEDY UFO DOCUMENT SURFACES (AGAIN) ------------------------------------------------------------ TOP COP WINS "BIG BROTHER" AWARD microcultures artwork: Portrait of John Ashcroft - Metallic Justice http://www.electricwarrior.com/gallery/ewMetallicJusticeThumb.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - US Attorney General John Ashcroft has received an Orwellian "Big Brother Award" for "Worst Government Official", alongside Oracle CEO Larry Ellison, who was named "Worst Corporate Invader." Privacy International, who describe themselves as a watchdog on surveillance by governments and corporations, grant the awards annually for notorious violations of human privacy. A group of human rights activists and privacy experts attended the award ceremony on April 18 in San Francisco, California. Apparently, neither honoree showed up to claim their prize. Silicon Valley's own Larry Ellison was singled out for promoting a centralized government database to serve as a national ID system. Last year Ellison said his company would provide the software for free. John Ashcroft was targeted for a widespread increase in telephone wiretapping and online electronic surveillance, in addition to detaining prisoners without charge following the "911" terrorist attacks last fall. Regular readers of this blog are aware of Ashcroft's impact on popular conspiracy theories: Ufologists, for example, make frequent use of FOIA requests to gain insight into the government's official investigation of the UFO phenomenon. Last fall Ashcroft directed federal agencies to be more cautious about releasing records to journalists and others who want access to unclassified government documents, saying the Justice Department would back agencies that legitimately turned down FOIA requests. Last month, however, Congress refuted Ashcroft's memo, and followed up with a new Citizen's Guide about access to government records. ------------------------------------------------------------ DUBIOUS KENNEDY UFO DOCUMENT SURFACES (AGAIN) UFO & Extraterrestrial Intelligence (The Electric Warrior) - There is a document Out There regarding President John F. Kennedy's purported involvement with the UFO phenomenon. If this is the first time you've heard of it, pardon me while I spell it out for you: JFK supposedly knew all about UFOs, threatened to tell everybody, and was killed for it. An email came across my desk this week touting yet another JPEG of the alleged Top Secret Memo and saying (more or less) the sender had no idea where the document came from but here it is! Pardon me if I spell that out for you too: The first thing a good Ufologist will ask with respect to this kind of information is: "What is the provenance?" In other words, where did you get this, and why should I believe you? MJ-12, (also Majestic) is the premier UFO conspiracy theory involving American presidents and twelve men who know The Truth about extraterrestrial intelligence. The Kennedy UFO document is, in fact, one of the notorious "extra" Majestic Documents. Look it up. ------------------------------------------------------------ RELATED RESOURCES 19-Apr-02 "1984" awards target Ellison, Ashcroft http://news.com.com/2100-1023-886878.html (Reuters/C-Net) - U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft and database billionaire Larry Ellison were named this year's most notorious American violators of personal privacy by leading advocacy groups on Thursday...Most recipients fail to pick up the honor in person. 07-Mar-02 House edits FOI publication to refute Ashcroft memo http://www.rcfp.org/news/2002/0307waxman.html (News Media Update) - A congressional publication intended to help Freedom of Information requesters has been updated to reflect a committee's rejection of the Attorney General's Oct. 12 memorandum promising support for FOI denials. 12-Nov-63 Evidence That We Are Not Alone http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/1960-1969.html (The Majestic Documents) - This memo, when read and re-read, gives the impression that JFK was urging a downgrading of the genuine extraterrestrials (read Unknowns) so that NASA could be better informed to handle their "defensive responsibilities." Even in this top secret memo, it is fairly unclear what all the subtleties were. However, the handwriting at the bottom, "Angleton has MJ directive" is confirmation that as late as three days before his assassination, there was an MJ program on the books. Whether this is strongly, weakly, or not at all related to his death is impossible to say from the data here. ------------------------------------------------------------ THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR April 19, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo ------------------------------------------------------------ The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. The content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 23:26:54 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:16:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Gates >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:22:24 +0100 >Subject: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? >I have been asked to post the following important statement by >Philip Mantle and Tim Matthews: >Thursday 18th April 2002 >As a result of recent and renewed interest in the 'Alien Autopsy' >film engendered by the publication of new evidence in UFO >Magazine (UK and USA) and publications in France and Russia, a >new witness has come forward who claims to have seen film >footage from an incident relating specifically to the AA >scenario. >The witness says he saw the footage in the 1950s and was shown >it by his father who, it is claimed, filmed the incident, parts >of which Ray Santilli purchased later on. Boiling that down, we in essence have the alleged camermans son who has stepped forth. By using the term "parts of which" are we to infer that additional footage exists? The other question is the camerman still alive or dead? >We have some intriguing detail on this man's father, his >military record, serial/rank number and so on. Naturally we realize that this (claims of alleged military service is absolutly meaningless unless and until we have independent copies of this individuals military record say from the National Personel Records Center in St. Louis. Remember Corso's claimed military service, verses what his military record actually showed? _Assuming_ that the military record checks out, we then need to find out about his whereabouts for May and June 1947, i.e. what the records show. It is likely they will show very little other then something about being stationed *perhaps* in Forth Worth or where ever he allegedly was when the film was shot but it may go along way. It also may identify particular unit historys that should be foraged for information. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:38:34 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:59:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Ledger >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:53:55 +0600 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:25:43 +0600 >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? ><snip> >>Oddly - taking into account generations of psychoactive >>substance use by peoples a little more principled than what is >>served up in western civilization generally, it may be >>completely invalid as a weeding tool. Additionally, If 50% of >>the 90 (?) or so recent DMT takers in a genuine drug study by a >>Dr. Steadman (I think that's his name) ...subjects not known to >>one another, report seeing the same little shadow creatures, >>something might be up. >Bobbie; >...Not Steadman - Strassman... Dr. Rick Strassman, University >of New Mexico Medical School, Department of Psychiatry, 2400 >Tucker Avenue NE Alburquerque, NM, USA, 87131. >Startling stuff... and it "don't mean they ain't 'real'..." [g]. Stacking this drug's use up against the tremendous number of abduction claims is no doubt going to add noise to the signal such as Venus is to UFO sightings. But you also have to consider that even drug users could have been abducted - maybe because they were drug users. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - Connors From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:26:28 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:53:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info - Connors >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:49:14 -0500 >Subject: Re: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Pascagoula Abduction CD Ordering Info >>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:32:11 -0600 <snip> >Hi Wendy. Thank you for making this information so readily >available. I look forwarding to downloading the file and >hearing it. You're welcome. >A couple of questions regarding this: >1 - Do Hickson and Parker know that this tape is being made >public? >2 - If so, what was their reaction when they learned of its >impending release? I believe you should direct your questions directly to them. I'm sorry Bobbie, but I won't do your personal research for you, just as I wouldn't impose on you to do mine. I think when you talk to them you will find them quite nice and very open about discussing their experience. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 15:40:18 +0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 17:54:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Lehmberg >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:16:50 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:13:29 +0600 >>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:55:50 -0400 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >Hi Alfred, >Ok, I'll chew up some bandwidth just for you. :) Causality shudders! [g] >You wrote: >>Snippage is not the problem, John, it's the lack of _discussion_ >>on the snippage replaced by artful-dodger appeals to coherency >>(masking reluctance to address foundational issues, gripes, and >>concerns) that's so bothersome, frustrating, and depressing. >Tell me what some of these "foundational issues, gripes and >concerns" are that are not being addressed. (in your view.) >We'll address them here. I've got nothing better to do and >nobody I'd rather do it with. :) Wow! What an opportunity to discuss them "right here", now wasted and gone forever! "A gambit of debate, a shadow of deceit, the deeper breaths now taken, you've dug in against retreat"? >>>I've always been one of the Odes' series biggest fans. You know >>>that. >>I do, John. You're the first guy that heard what I was saying in >>cyberspace, didn't write me off as a pretentious cyber-loon, >>max-zoom dweeb, or public whacko and (ironically!) found a way >>to include me in your sector of the known universe... I have to >>wonder, though, if I'd make your cut if I appeared on the scene >>today... >Why should time make a difference Alfred. Because I have been compelled to be so contrary to perceptions of corruption in the mainstream over the years. I've had to stand across the *fence* from you, and others you respect, too often to be comfortable in the last year or so. One would have thought you'd have left me along with some others on your seemingly very singular path. Time is familiarity leading to contempt? Time gives one time to change ones mind, all the time... >They're every bit as >good if not better than they ever were. Oh - you're just saying that 'cause it's true. [g]. >All I said was; I don't >always agree with everything that is in em. Bailiff!!! >I _always_ let you >know too! But that doesn't take away from my enjoyment or >appreciation of them. Or you. But we were never talking about me, dude. The subject was a different class of roses _all_ together. I get the impression that you keep trying to imply that I'm operating out of some kind of pretentious artistic pique when the manner of my expressions "will be what they will be" and it is the subject of the expressions that concerns me. >We have different styles, Alfred. Yours comes through in your >Odes. My way is more blunt. I am more direct, as right to the >point (nitty-gritty) as I can be, each and every time. We may >disagree on certain issues or certain people but I have never >questioned your style, motives or integrity. Something you have >recently granted yourself permission to do with me. And _that_ sounds a little like you're saying that _I_ am the first to make a personal attack on _you_ when I already pointed that that's what you were doing to _me_ a post or so ago. Your _idea_ of style is authoritarian (easy for the over fifty crowd... I'm constantly on guard for it in myself). Your _ideas_ on motives are your own, unknown to any save yourself, as it is with anyone (it's the deeds not the words that makes these plain), but yours seem especially machiavellian. And as regards ideas on integrity... Most know whether they have it or not, I cannot presume upon yours. You should not presume that I have. >>All I've ever said is that we were both on the same side of the >>aggregate struggle, and that together we were more than the sum >>of our aggregate parts. That's true a lot more often than it's >>not. >And barring misinterpretations that's exactly what is going on >here. :) Something greater _will_ be gained if we don't shit-can one another before we get to it. >A big part of the current problem is that constructive >criticism is being misconstrued as destructive criticism. I think you're pushing that through your own filter, hoss. Your enmity with regard to the subject in question is passionate and _legend_. Given that failure of any investigation is guaranteed if it is first entered into with contempt, as John Spencer pointed out, it is argued that your criticism can be taken as destructive, the way things are, whether it is or _not_. >As an >example; the current discussion surrounding the proposed medical >study of abductees has been ignored for the most-part by every >researcher on this List. With the exception of one or two who >made some comments about it. (Paid it lip-service) I am the only >one who has pointed out the weaknesses and, in some cases fatal >flaws in it - pointing the way toward what it needs and how to >tighten it up so that the results are not dismissed or laughed >at. How to "bullet-proof" the thing. Well - slap me and call me Susan, but all I could see is the usual knee-jerk reaction to a pro-active effort. Believe me -- if I was being abducted you can bet I wouldn't wait around for your ufological mainstream to fix it for me, and won't anyway! Moreover, it seems the effort in question is getting a little more steam into it than the mere "lip service" than it got on UpDates (perhaps as a function self full-filling prophesy?), the busy efforts of a few? I don't know. We'll just have to see. >Alfred, I tried to do the same thing several years ago. The >difference between that, and this is; I went out of my way to >contact the most knowledgeable and experienced people I could >find. I needed to first determine what the correct way to >proceed and to learn what needed to be done in order to have >such a study acknowledged and accepted by the mainstream >scientific/academic community. Hmmmmmm... again, no difference here and there. You could be discussing either event from _this_ alien view. >(More on them later in this post) >Everything I have carefully detailed, all of the _major_ flaws I >have pointed out, are being interpreted as expressions of ego or >a need to control rather than the _practical_ (and sorely >needed) counsel that it is. Instead of it motivating people to >take measures to correct the flaws (in the name of insuring the >integrity and success of the project) people who don't even know >me choose to focus on 'me' rather than what I'm saying. On 'how' >it is being said rather than 'what' is being said. ...wow! That's the same thing I would have said about my own concerns. To paraphrase: Not what I'm saying but that I'm saying it, at all. Your counsel was provided obliquely (do you remember the mechanics of that?). And taken in the spirit that it was given, as I recall. >They make the >very personal accusation that my motives are ego based while >claiming that I am the one who is personally fouling them. Read >my posts. Bass ackwards man. C'mon, John. You're an arguable enemy of every proactive effort save your own. You're vociferously opposed to any viewpoint save your own. You're obstinately stubborn with regard to any interpretation save your own. Your passion is so intense and your commitment so ardent that you may even be in danger of reinventing what's happened and happening 180 degrees out of phase. I don't think you're giving some of the efforts around you a fair shake if they don't set their course by the star you see a little clearer than anyone else. >I don't give a rats-ass about what most others think. ... And maybe you should a little more. I care very much about what other people think as it ends up having so much impact on me. I don't care what they=92re thinking so much, but I care that they think. Did that make sense? Can you dig the Zen in that? >But you >know me long enough and well enough to know that my motives >are straight from the heart and that 'ego gratification' or >getting 'credit' for myself is not among them. Ok John - I'm giving you the church-lady fish-eye... None of us really knows any of us, at all. That's an appeal to debate's authority that I'm going to have to let fall. I think you're straight as far as you go, but in final analysis I must say I don't _know_. >I care about seeing that anything connected to abductees (of >which I am one) gets done right, so that it succeeds in >achieving some benefit to the experiencers. Whether that be in >the form of reliable data/information or some kind of assurance >and comfort on a more personal level. ...which has not occurred thus far, in any substantive shape, way, manner,= or form. You campaign furiously against the latest attempt, is all. > >Whose name is on anything means nothing to me. ...let's just toss down a BS card on that one. I, myself, would be very proud to have my name associated with any quality pro- active effort of any stripe. Even Mother Teresa (jeez - _especially_ Mother Teresa!) was not that selfless. I think your name on a quality effort means quite a bit to you. It means a lot to me. >That it is done >right and benefits/respects the subjects (abductees) does mean >everything to me. Ok. Did you have anything in mind to help move the process along, outside the criticism of alternative efforts that aspire to do so? That's all I see on this end. But that's just me. >A study that will be shot down based on >'integrity' and procedural flaws will benefit no one in the end. >What good are the results going to be if they get dismissed over >lack of adherence to accepted procedures and basic protocols? It seems to me that this is mere proclamation on your part, in as much as there _does_ seem to be evidence of some procedure and some protocol. I've read in confidence that there may be a lot more interest by name researchers in this project than you indicate here. We'll just have to see how it shakes out. I just regret that UpDates won't get the pull on this particular lanyard, whether the cannon goes off or not. >If you go back to the lengthy and detailed posts I have taken >the time to write regarding those issues you will see that there >is nothing 'personal' anywhere in any of it. From my end it is >all about this proposed study and the proper way to conduct it - >whatever it will take to _insure_ it's success as a study. So >that it may actually benefit some experiencers in the end. My >comments have had nothing to do with whatever results/ findings >are made. All suggestions and criticisms have been strictly >procedural. Ok. >I have sat back and enjoyed a private laugh every time I hear >somebody whining and 'pining away about how nobody cares, how >nobody is responding, helping or paying attention. I guess you've had a big laugh on me. I've been saying some of that for years now. >While all the >time and effort I have poured into writing and suggesting ways >to improve and strengthen the thing have been completely >ignored. This claim is lost on the rank and file, whose communication to me has been very contrary and highly critical of your suggestions and efforts. >Not _once_ has anyone claimed that anything I have said >about it is invalid. Nobody wants to engage you in debate, John. >The preferred interpretation of those who >feel threatened by the things I point out/say is: that I am >objecting only because I have a personal axe to grind or because >my massive ego won't allow for it. Convenient, but self-serving, >stupid and wasteful. I think these folks you allude to here think it=92s a duck... if it quacks like a duck to _them_, John. I think they think you want disciples, not comrades. Perception _is_ the reality. I ain't sayin' they're right, just that's what they perceive. And there is the question of the road-kill on your path I talked about earlier... tales about that have circulated for years. I've seen a little evidence of it myself. One can be too uncompromising, I think. >You of all people ought to know me better. ... and we've already been there. That's an appeal that has idiosyncratic value only, based on hopes and dreams and fond maybes... that's a personal thing hard to key in a public debate. >>One thing I've had to internalize over the years is that it's >>not always _me_ that's going to have the good idea [g]. >Another shot that I am acting from ego and not my intelligence >or experience. Your mistake and their loss. More than anybody >else on the List I have made sound and valuable procedural >suggestions all along. Ego eh? Funny how some people 'choose' >to see things. _Not_ a shot! An observation! I don't question your intelligence, obviously top drawer, or your experience. And it is funny _indeed_ how 'some' people choose to see things... >I repeat: _You_ ought to know better than to even think it of >me. If that were really true you might take a little more stock in my take on things. You don't even consider the possibility. >>it is a richness of >>open forthcoming-ness leading to fairer play which precipitates >>the truly open ended wonders of our present age. You, busily >>passionate about pouring a bucket of water on anything which >>does not have your stamp of, even committed, approval, >Sorry that you see it that way. Well - it's not a stick in your eye. >My involvement here, in public, >is restricted to anything connected to the UFO/abduction phenom. >I care deeply and for reasons I have been stating for years on >this List. I always put out my best regardless, of how it may >interpreted or received by someone else. I'm not concerned in >the least with popularity or acceptance as some others are. My >own concerns lie with truth, honesty and _competence._ None of >which has anything to do with my imposing my will, or my name, >on anyone or anything. Ok. >Maybe you need to rap with a couple of >people who really know me in order to appreciate the absurdity >of any indictment that accuses me of acting in public re: >abduction or abductees, out of petty ego. I feel a great deal of >responsibility towards others especially about how I conduct >myself in public. Because of the label "abductee" I know that >others are being judged by some by how I conduct myself in >public. I only wish that some other "abductees" were as >thoughtful about it. Well - what are you gonna do? Life's a crap-filled twinky and every day's another bite? Reality sucks and then you die? My sense of responsibility is a little more inclusive than yours, I think, John. But I would think that the readers might be a little repulsed if I used it as a bludgeon for what remains to be taken as a self-serving argument. Perception's the reality... And I say that thinking you must be a pretty decent guy, as the crow flies. >>does not provide for a rich enough diversity, tastes a little >>flat, and seems minus a little of the 'art' and 'music' _any_ >>enterprise has to have to be effective, useful, lasting, and >>satisfying. >Nothing "lasting" comes from anything "slipshod". Quality in, >quality out. Garbage in, garbage out. Cosmic Law. "Garbage in, garbage out" just may be another think cloak like that other single edged rubric regarding extraordinary claims. What's garbage? One man's cheese is another's rotten milk. >>Moreover, pandering to a mainstream that opposes you in spirit >>is just a demonstration that you are _not_ aware that it is >>shining you on! >Pandering? Alfred, the "mainstream" is why we're all here >working so hard. You missed it again, partner! The mainstream doesn't CARE HOW HARD YOU WORK (yes, I _was_ shouting)! The mainstream is working furiously to discredit rational interest, and has a lot more work with. >"We" (some of us) already know that something >major is going on. "They" (the mainstream masses) do not. I work >for them (the 'masses') and their edification. The masses are _not_ the mainstream, John, don't you get it? The masses are _steered_ by a _hijacked_ corrupt and criminal mainstream. Hijacked by what? Hijacked by whom? What dark agendas? What secret governments. What black projects? No conspiracy? >If you consider >it 'pandering' then there's not much I can do about that. Pandering's harsh. It connotes sucking up... But it won't matter... call it "respect for the mainstream". It _won't_ respect you back... no matter how circumspect and bullet-proof your program or procedure. It can't... The moment it does (pause for effect) ...it ceases to exist!!! >I'm >going about my business in a way that 'accommodates' them. In >_any_ way that will allow _them_ to see the same light that >_blinds_us. See that you do! [g]. >>As far as a hijacked mainstream is concerned (?), you are >>track-dogs chasing the mainstreams electric rabbit. You're not >>_meant_ to shake that reality in your teeth, that 'mainstream' >>ceases to be if you do... >The point of all revolution is to shake that reality in its >teeth. Ok! Let's overwork the metaphor. There was a recent story regarding a dog that ran at a track where they commit that kind of moral and disrespectful activity (ever hear what happens to the dogs, anyway?) ...where the damn dog actually caught the electric rabbit. I don=92t remember the details, but it wasn't pretty. The electric rabbit is not the prize you're led to believe that it is. Nothing is the way it appears. >I consider my self a revolutionary not a "track-dog" >chasing mechanical rabbits. You're pointing fingers at the wrong >guy here. Maybe you meant somebody else. You don't get as far >from "mainstream" as me kid. At least in terms of my 'public' >role. I'm sure I'd concede that, eventually. [g]. >>What's the alternative? Well, what did the Blacks and other >>minorities do against injustice, infidelity, and canted playing >>fields? What have women done? What have Jews done. What have >>gay people done? All GREAT strides in the last fifty years. >>Civil action, activism, organization, and BECOME (re-capture) >>the mainstream? Abby Hoffman would have _killed_ to have the >>internet, forgetting that he assisted, obliquely, in making it >>happen... >It's happening all around us Alfred. Just too many people with >personal needs and agendas around distracting from the real work >at hand. Based on perception only? There's likely a lot of eyeballs clicking skyward as the preceding was read, boy-yo [g]! I'd take you at your word. You have a tremendous contribution you can make to the history of this thing, John. >Which is; raising public awareness about the reality of >the presence of UFOs and their occupants on our world. Ok. >>Proactive activity, fomented by efficacious thinkers (creative >>sociophiles) and transmitted by artists and writers to an >>abused, *truth* hungry, rank and file... I'm not necessarily >>putting myself very high in any of these categories. But I do >>aspire to them, as I'm sure you do. >Nothing less. And as you know, a 'portal' that requires one to >leave 'ego' at the door. It's one of the reasons why I resent >that accusation so much. Whenever I get irritated I check it against how right the "irritation" might be. I find them proportionate much of the time. >I go out of my way to keep myself (my >name or involvement) in the background or out of it completely >with just about everything I do. As a recent example; ask EBK >how I agonized over having my name connected to the >International petition, and only because I thought my being >connected to it (as an abductee) might hurt it in some way. ...'bout the third time we've heard that John. If you want folks to keep you anonymous with regard to your part in that fine effort, you're going to have to stop reminding us of it. <g>. >That >is 'par' for how I approach any project connected to abductees. >The focus is and should be on them and what's best for them. Not >me or any other single individual. All things being equal? I believe you. >>>Let's call it a 5 by 5 (even) and move on. :) >>That's what synergy is all about, dude! Open _your_ arms. >Open _yours!_ >&< >Mine are always open. I'm just a bit more >discriminating than yourself about 'how long' the hug lasts once >I know 'who' I am hugging. Tramp! You'll hug any smelly body >that gets in your path! <lol> ...diseased ones, too. All manner of afflicted! ...always a lot more fun than the suits... [g]. >Here's a big open arm hug' for you. Ya big pillow-biter! >"Not that there's anything wrong with that!" "No - not a thing" Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - McCoy From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:33:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:49:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - McCoy Hello, all Bobbie, John, >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:18:27 -0500 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:09:05 -0400 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:24:00 -0500 >>>Subject: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? ><snip> >>Bobbie, >>You have mis-classified a very dangerous substance (DMT) as a >>"recreational" drug. You have also mis-interpreted what was said >>in the text book you are quoting. > >I did not classify the drug. I quoted from a "Recreational Drug >Information" website. Hence, use of the term "recreational >drug". ><snip> >>More to the point you are 'trying' to make: >You cannot effectively address the point I was trying to make >because you apparently missed the point I was making. The point >was not whether this or that illegal "recreational" drug could >be a cause of abduction experience. The point was that anyone >who had a history of drug abuse/drug addiction should be weeded >out of a study on abduction. It is a matter of credibility, not >a matter of pharmacology. How do you define drug abuse? Too many Quaaludes or too many Brewskis? A shared joint around a campfire during a college field trip?( I plead guilty there). Alice B. Toklas Brownies for lunch or a three martini lunch? There is hardly a one of us Babyboomers that hasn't tried or did something that wasn't good for us. Heck, too many twinkies were blamed for capital murder-and stuck (probably to the offender's arteries too). Are you saying that Abductees who may have been addicted to substances are not good candidates for study because of what? Budwiser flashbacks, Starbucks withdrawal(something I had to go through recently due to oral surgery) can't one be clean and dry for months,into years and have something extra-ordinary happen that can't be explained. With me it was at 14, shiny disk, multiple witnesses, and I never had a drink until I was 21-no kidding. Didn't have a joint until I was 23. While I never was (thankfully) abducted, I did have confirmation in the extra-ordinary. I think _anyone _ who has had something amazing happen to them is a valid subject. Yes, if the subject is gibbering with the D.T.s in the "Pink Elephant" phase, or other forms of addict type behavior. But stone cold sober, yes, and I don't think pharmacological history should matter. >As you've stated repeatedly, why give detractors ground sto tear >apart a study? Prior drug abuse/addiction speaks to the >credibility of a person's story, and should thus be excluded >from any _serious_ study of abduction claims, in my opinion. Why >give fuel to the debunker's fire? >Makes sense to me Doesn't make sense to me, as if the subject is not using, and hasn't for a long time,why discount them? Especially if they have been sober for along time, and are quite sane. By the way, I quit drinking last year. Never a falling down drunk, just couldn't wait for the sun to go down over the yardarm.That plus the fact that I discovered I am likely 1/4 or so Indian, due to a carefully hidden past by my Gramma McCoy, I said to myself, " This stuff is controlling me, time for a little ah, _command authority_ here.!"and quit cold turkey. Does that invalidate some of the things that I have seen/experienced in the sky? I don't think so. GT McCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Alfred's Odd Observation #15 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:36:54 +0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:50:54 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Observation #15 Alfred's Odd Observation #15 (Saturday -- April 20, 2002) Sparse sightings, indeed, have been made through partly cloudy skies, when there was any visibility at all. A few of the mornings were very good, cool and clear, but remained empty. Empty is equally satisfying, anymore. Where do they go? All sightings were magnitude zero or less, save one. Most, eight total (spread out over the days since the last report), were so dim that they could only be seen using off center viewing. All colors were reddish, speed was between three degrees a second and one degree a second, and were in no evidence, at all, for many of the days I was able to observe. All of the sightings would have been prosaic examples of the non-prosaic but for a couple of 'odd' wrinkles. Friday, the twelfth of April at 04:15 Pacific time, soundless fastwalkers clipped by, one after the other, at a _hot_ three degrees a second and arrow straight. The sky was crystal clear and the first silent yellow-red light, a little dimmer than Sirius, did not diminish in intensity as it flew from the time it was noticed overhead to a point where it disappeared behind some trees at about 20 degrees elevation. It was immediately followed by an identical fastwalker on the same track and heading, diving to disappear behind the same cut in the trees. Here's the wrinkle: the course of both objects was the duest of due Wests... That was _due_ west, ladies and gentelbunkies, an artful track that your garden variety satellite of human manufacture is not supposed to be able to describe. This is according to an albeit inconstant and less than reliable (?) Jim Oberg... intrepid space historian, and arguably the noisier of our noisome noisy negativists=85 The other wrinkle concerns a good sighting on the 15th at 04:50 that I was able to call the attention of a _witness_ to! It was one of the more typical wandering stars, appearing as I watched the Northern sky, at about 350 degrees azimuth and 50 degrees elevation. It traveled about 20 degrees in arc west southwest, before it dimmed abruptly and went out. My recently widowed brother was relaxing prior to a 10 hour shift of work (involving activity driving tunnel through ruined rock a quarter mile inside a small mountain northwest of Redding, California) and was close by. When I called him over to see the object from beneath a covered porch where he was sitting, quietly consuming a cup of "morning ambition", he was something less than thrilled. He lumbered over to where I was, out in the open, mumbling bothered protests. Looking up to where I pointed with what I knew to be an under-whelmed expression on his sharply planed miners face, he acknowledged that it _was_ weird, but after grudgingly watching for just a few seconds, he turned and went back to his coffee even before the damned thing blinked out! He was something less than impressed, like I said, but my irritation was minimal. I understood why. It's not complacency, insentience, or having "bigger" fish to fry that explains his lack of interest. It was the simple singular lack of a strong enough stimulus provided by the object we observed together that morning. Tiny quiet lights moving in the night sky don't _begin_ to approach his interest threshold, much less cross it. My brother and (his now deceased wife) saw an uncontestable UFO, for a period of many minutes, on a deserted California Coast Highway, so up-close and personal that it was the only thing they could see in the sky at all! I wanted my brother to witness anomalous minnows flitting in a small pond when he had already seen Moby Dick leap clear of the Pacific ocean! That's _small_ hyperbole. In 1977, and after the end of _that_ incarnation of the endless war, my brother and his bride of a few years were traveling at night down the Pacific Coast Highway, in California, from French Gulch to Oxnard to spend time with our folks for Christmas -- about a twelve hour trip. I was ufologically oblivious in what was then West Germany at the time, but I digress. Both were well rested, not intoxicated, and looking forward to a quiet drive on a beautiful night down an uncluttered California highway listening to R&B on the '64 VW Window Van's cheesy little AM radio... One can almost hear tense music swelling on the soundtrack... Kill the music. As they drove, they would crest an occasional bluff and be able to see many miles out into the ocean where offshore oil rigs glittered deceptively like diamonds in the darkness of the then untroubled sea. It was a beautiful night and spirits were high. There were no children as yet, and their lives stretched out before them in a manner that seemed as optimistic and completely open ended as the ocean on their right. They would _stay_ married -- forgive the digression. Every time that they would get a shot of ocean they would fully appreciate the beauty of the sea and sky. The starry reaches would look like a glittering backdrop weighted at the bottom by the brighter lights of the sparkling rigs. Highway One is a curling, winding snake of a road that takes the traveler in and away from periodic views of the ocean to points inland, and they became puzzled, as they drove along, that an oil rig seemed to be getting closer to shore every time they had an opportunity to see it. They were still unsuspecting. Driving through a stretch away from the ocean and down a valley between some hills, my brother's wife noticed what she took for a lighted billboard further down the road... that they didn't seem to be gaining on. Abruptly, they did gain on it in the darkness until it was adjacent to the car outside her passenger door about a hundred feet away. It became obvious to them at last that the "sign" was moving, so they upgraded their estimation of the object to a plane in trouble or a helicopter. They pulled over to the side of the road to see what was what. My brother got out of the car and jogged around the front to see. Before his slack-jawed eyes loomed a silent upside down Christmas tree as big as an office building, it seemed! One racing heartbeat later all he could observe from horizon to horizon were billions of different sized bright lights hovering right down over the top of them like a swarm of quiet multicolored bees! My brother ran a few meters from the car in a heedless attempt to see more, immediately enchanted. His wife screamed from the car, and he looked back. She was begging him to return to her. "They'll get us"! she shrieked. "They'll get us"! A cold fear took him then, and he scrambled back to the van and piled inside with her, slamming the door! He looked up at the UFO through the top of the windscreen. His wife was beside herself with fear! ...Just as abruptly, it was gone. They quickly fired up the VW window van and left the area while the leaving was apparently good. Both were _highly_ freaked out! Now, my brother's a merry trickster. His totem animal would be the crow (he can twist, by the way, into living steel sculpture) if he was into native religions. But like the crow, he's not wired for enduring obfuscation, he's a dyed in the wool sociophile, and he won't be a party to the short-sheeting egregious. Still -- it's not him that convinces me. It's her. His wife was ever only a solid indication that it is only the good who die young. A serious (although canted) student of ardent Christianity, she was a grammar school teacher who inspired a permanent monument, festooned with rose bushes, to be raised in her memory. On the monument is a metal plaque that reads her name and "Always gentle, always kind..." An intelligent women, she was under the inculcated mainstream opinion that only feebs and losers saw UFOs! She was not _remotely_ comfortable or eager providing testimony to _this_ kind of event. She would never have brought it up on her own, but that my brother was eager to talk about it, and she was there with him... She was a most _reluctant_ witness, forgetting she's never told a self-serving lie in her life. She feared hell's demons descending upon them in the form of a sky full of different colored silent lights that night, though. She trembled as she related the story and looked haunted. I knew her for almost 30 years; she's the real deal. Later, I'd ask my brother about missing time, and whether he seemed to get down to Oxnard about when he thought he should have been down there. He said he thought he did. I don't _think_ there were abduction complications... The reader can, perhaps, understand my lack of irritation with this under-whelmed witness a little better! He was party to lightning _bolts_; I was getting excited about lightning-bugs! I can dig the scale. Still, he had to admit my "lightning bug" was weird, forgetting he was still able to fake a yawn in a manner that would break a normal man's jaw. What a guy. That's enough. I remain, for now, watching the western skies. Read on! ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Costello From: Sharon Costello <Boontooly@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:00:15 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:55:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Costello >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:38:34 -0300 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:53:55 +0600 >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? <snip> >>Bobbie; >>...Not Steadman - Strassman... Dr. Rick Strassman, University >>of New Mexico Medical School, Department of Psychiatry, 2400 >>Tucker Avenue NE Alburquerque, NM, USA, 87131. >>Startling stuff... and it "don't mean they ain't 'real'..." [g]. >Stacking this drug's use up against the tremendous number of >abduction claims is no doubt going to add noise to the signal >such as Venus is to UFO sightings. But you also have to consider >that even drug users could have been abducted - maybe because >they were drug users. Hi All, Persons who experience traumatic events, especially if it is an ongoing trauma, will suffer from PTSD and will tend to want to medicate themselves. If someone were being abducted on a regular basis since early childhood no doubt that would cause PTSD. It just may be that the abduction is the cause of drug use instead of the other way around. Just a thought. Shar Costello
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:23:06 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:57:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Gates >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:04:02 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? >List, >I was reading a book on quantum physics and came across an >illustration that showed shapes very similar (and in one case >identical) to the 'glyphs' drawn by Jesse Marcel (Jr. & Sr.) of >Roswell fame. >The illustration in question showed the possible positions of >electron clouds around excited hydrogen atoms. Some of the >configurations are remarkably 'flower' like. The one that >impressed me the most looked like a stylized 'I' with small >'petals' coming out of its sides. Jesse Marcel Jr. drew >something precisely like this. Hi Mac, You realize that the skeptics will likely claim that this is further proof it was a balloon, after all every balloon that is launched has various physics type symbols written over the material the balloon was constructed from, and or How the Marcels were really just confused with something they read in a physics book years ago...blah blah etc etc. Can't you just hear it now. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:34:53 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:27:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Morris >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:34:57 +0100 >Subject: R: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? >>From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:22:24 +0100 >>Subject: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? <snip> >Eric, since your conference is a nice seven hour drive away >could you tell me if you will be selling recording of the >conference? <snip> Sean A copy of the video will be available in 2 weeks for =A310. This will include all three speakers and included postage and packaging etc. We are new at producing videos. however I have a good BUFOSC colleague who is a TV engineer and services BUFOSC's technical needs adequately, therefore he will be doing the videos. I am always available to come up and do a talk on whatever subject is applicable in BUFOSC's agendas, I will always make time and I can stay in a hotel overnight. Just let me know. I do NOT charge a fee. All I ask is for travelling expenses, (if I sleep a cheap B&B) or kipping on someone's floor, I have no problems with that, and I do ask a small donation for Cats Protection in memory of our deal pal Dave who died last year. Cheques for the video should be made payable to Eric Morris. Incidentally, we were sold out at Runcorn yesterday, we made =A3140 profit for Cats Protection and I received about ten calls from people when I arrived home stating how good the conference was, and how much they had enjoyed it. Lionel Beer came from London, Phil Mantle from Yorkshire and of course Tim gave a brilliant lecture on his latest Nazi UFO research which has definitive substance. Look forward to hearing from you. My address is: 78 Greenall Road, Northwich, Cheshire CW9 5RN Yours, Eric
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:27:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:31:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:33:05 -0700 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:18:27 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? <snip> >Are you saying that Abductees who may have been addicted to >substances are not good candidates for study because of what? >Budwiser flashbacks, Starbucks withdrawal(something I had to go >through recently due to oral surgery) can't one be clean and dry >for months,into years and have something extra-ordinary happen >that can't be explained. With me it was at 14, shiny disk, >multiple witnesses, and I never had a drink until I was 21-no >kidding. Didn't have a joint until I was 23. <snip> Hi GT. First...stop thinking like a 'believer' and think like a 'debunker' or 'skeptic' for a moment. The point I am making is _not_ whether unusual/unexplained/extraordinary things can happen to drug addicts. The point is that a history of drug addiction can be a _godsend_ to a skeptic or debunker looking to shoot down a study done on abduction! Think about it for a minute.... pretend you're the skeptic... you see a report on someone's claims of abduction. You look it over and see that this person was, at one time, addicted to cocaine or to crack or to heroin or to marijuana... it doesn't matter, pick an illegal drug. Mr. Skeptic sees this in the person's history, and _immediately_ disregards anything else done in the study. It doesn't matter whether I personally believe this to be a valid reason for not including current or former drug addicts in a _serious_ study or not. It doesn't matter whether _you_ believe it to be a valid reason for non- inclusion. What matters, if one is trying to conduct a study that has a snowball's chance in hell of being taken seriously by the mainstream scientific/medical community is that you don't give skeptics/debunkers _any_ opportunity to twist or spin your data around to a negative impact! As Velez said....make the study bullet-proof. Not including anyone with a history of drug addiction, in my opinion, simply takes away one possible point of debunking from the skepti- bunkers. I would hope that any abductee who has a current propensity for illegal drug use or a history of drug addiction, and who truly wanted to see all abductees benefit from such a study would have the decency to remove him/ herself from the study. But's that just my opinion. All a skeptic/debunker needs is a shadow of a doubt to disqualify an entire study. I'm sure you've seen examples of that. Knowing this is the way that the skepti-bunker crowd works, why give them fuel for their fire? That's all I'm asking. Just makes sense to me. If you want to play in the mainstream sandbox, you got to play by the mainstream rules of the playground. Bobbie "It is the duty of rational beings to hear both sides, and not to suppose that the ultimate truth... is to be gathered by listening solely to the immediate warcries of one...." ---J. Franklin Jameson ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:34:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Tonnies >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:23:06 EDT >Subject: Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:04:02 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? >>List, >>I was reading a book on quantum physics and came across an >>illustration that showed shapes very similar (and in one case >>identical) to the 'glyphs' drawn by Jesse Marcel (Jr. & Sr.) of >>Roswell fame. >>The illustration in question showed the possible positions of >>electron clouds around excited hydrogen atoms. Some of the >>configurations are remarkably 'flower' like. The one that >>impressed me the most looked like a stylized 'I' with small >>'petals' coming out of its sides. Jesse Marcel Jr. drew >>something precisely like this. >Hi Mac, >You realize that the skeptics will likely claim that this is >further proof it was a balloon, after all every balloon that is >launched has various physics type symbols written over the >material the balloon was constructed from, and or >How the Marcels were really just confused with something they >read in a physics book years ago...blah blah etc, etc. >Can't you just hear it now. Robert, If I'm onto something with this hydrogen electron hypothesis, then I would have to say that Prof. Moore and other Mogul proponents have lost their chance to say anything. Moore specifically said that the designs on the ever-controversial "decorative tape" (which I assume existed, but have to wonder why it hasn't surfaced...) were just that: decorations. No one has ever mentioned quantum physical diagrams. When I strumbled across the diagram of hydrogen electron states, I noticed an immediate similarity. (I'm still trying to find a good picture of them on the Web). I propose that someone shows Dr. Marcel the hydrogen graphics to see if he remembers any of the shapes besides the one I mention in the post below. Mac
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Damon Knight 1923 - 2002 From: Jerry Hamm <jhamm@bright.net> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:18:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:24:50 -0400 Subject: Damon Knight 1923 - 2002 Science Fiction author Damon Knight died April 18th at age 79. He wrote a biography of Charles Fort in 1970 'Charles Fort: Prophet Of The Unexplained'. Obit here: http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-000027559apr18.story?coll=la-news-obit uaries Jerry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:53:58 +0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:20:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Lehmberg >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:27:27 -0500 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:33:05 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:18:27 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? <snip> >Just makes sense to me. If you want to play in the mainstream >sandbox, you got to play by the mainstream rules of the >playground. It doesn't matter if you play by the mainstream's rules... the mainstream doesn't play by those same rules. Those are only _your_ rules for _you_, obstacles placed in your path to impede you, hurdles only you will have to leap over, requirements only _you_ will have to satisfy... the moment it begins to appear that you might satisfy their electric rabbit requirements they will speed the rabbit up in the form of that receding evidentiary horizon Van Gemert was talking about... co-opt the idea for themselves, or make it the subject of a bad faith whisper campaign... progress is zero, as planned. Don't expect fair play anywhere it's not likely... don't believe any institution they make TV shows about. [g]. Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:25:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:26:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Velez >From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:18:27 -0500 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:09:05 -0400 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:24:00 -0500 >>>Subject: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? ><snip> >>You have mis-classified a very dangerous substance (DMT) as a >>"recreational" drug. You have also mis-interpreted what was said >>in the the text book you are quoting. >I did not classify the drug. I quoted from a "Recreational Drug >Information" website. Hence, use of the term "recreational >drug". ><snip> Hola Mz. Felder, You wrote: >You cannot effectively address the point I was trying to make >because you apparently missed the point I was making. The point >was not whether this or that illegal "recreational" drug could >be a cause of abduction experience. The point was that anyone >who had a history of drug abuse/drug addiction should be weeded >out of a study on abduction. It is a matter of credibility, not >a matter of pharmacology. Several years ago David Jacobs was up from Philadelphia visiting Budd for a week-end. I had been invited for dinner and enjoyed an evening of relaxed conversation with both of these most interesting gentlemen. Because of my background/history we got into a 'chicken and the egg' type of discussion regarding whether the trauma of a lifetime of repeated abduction causes a higher than average percentage of abductees to self-medicate. The consensus was that the answer is, yes. It is _highly_ probable that a portion of any group of individuals experiencing repeated trauma would end up 'addicted' to some kind of 'medication.' What that percentage is, or if there are any drugs that are favored over others for abuse are all unknown quantities. Assuming the hypothesis is accurate, then one would expect to find a percentage of those reporting abduction to also have some history of 'self-medication' (substance abuse) There _are_ some ex-this or ex-that's among abductees. The incidence of a history of substance abuse may be higher among the abductee population than in the general population. No 'studies' have been performed that make a case one way or the other. But that it "makes sense" that some abductees are going to have a history of substance abuse is almost a foregone conclusion. Before someone is an "abductee" they are a human being. Human beings respond to repeated stress or trauma in many different ways. One of those is to self-medicate. If these people are to be dismissed only because they reacted like a 'human being' to 'inhuman' circumstances, you're going to wipe out an important part of the potential database. Being an ex-alcoholic or an ex-addict does not preclude anyone from being a 'credible' person. I've got news for you, some of the best put together people I have ever met or known were those who saved themselves from the gutter. They have had a broader experience of the human condition than most and they have had to delve deeply inside of themselves in order to find the will and determination to overcome their own fears, obstacles and excuses. Once recovered, they can become some of the most beautiful and compassionate people that you'd ever hope to know. The sense of responsibility and adherence to honesty is conscious commitment to them. I have found some ex's to be the most honest, reliable, and credible people I have ever known. People should be judged credible or not by their track record as an individual. It is only family and close friends and even business associates who are in any position to say with any degree of authority whether someone is "credible" or not. You cannot simply proclaim that "all former substance abusers are not credible because they chose to self-medicate in response to trauma." >Makes sense to me Your 'theory' is _arbitrarily_ exclusive. It doesn't make _any_ "sense" at all. (To me) Bobbie, the _sole_ reason you brought up this whole discussion in the first place is because you know that I am a recovered Heroin addict. What you wish to use to shame and dismiss me with is something I am proud of. That I wear like a badge of honor not one of shame. You write: "The point was that anyone who had a history of drug abuse/drug addiction should be weeded out of a study on abduction. It is a matter of credibility," Bobbie I have many people that can vouch for _my_ "credibility." And... my honesty, integrity and character. Myself and my background have been put through a _competent_ and _thorough_ investigation process which I passed with flying colors. Who 'vouches' for you? I have a 'history' and an evolution here (on UpDates and in ufology) that is directly related to the subject at hand and that involves some of its most well respected researchers. Years ago Budd Hopkins presented me and my case to the public for consideration. When he did that, he put his own reputation behind me and his own findings/conclusions regarding my "case." And not just UFO researchers! I had to pass a _rigorous_ investigation by the NY state Department of Corrections when they issued me a pass that allowed me access to _any_ prison in the State. (I was conducting regular 'counselling' sessions with inmates that were serving time for drug related offenses. Passed that one too. :) You on the other hand just 'popped in' from the Internet. I can give you the names of Judges, State and city commissioners, Doctors, lawyers and all manner of 'credible' people who will happily vouch for me and my character Bobbie. My credibility can be _documented._ Can yours? The thin veneer of civility and honest inquiry that you hide behind is just that. Methinks your real motives are much more 'mundane' (nastier) than that. "Ex-addicts should be automatically excluded because they are not credible" - how many people do you think you're fooling with that one Bobbie? 'Glass' has nothing on you in terms of transparency. :) It's why I responded to the thread to begin with. I saw you coming from ten miles away. <lol> John Velez Ex-heroin addict - 33 years clean. And _proud_ of it! Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:23:31 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:29:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Jones >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:34:53 +0100 >Subject: Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? Evening Eric, >Sean A copy of the video will be available in 2 weeks for =A310. >This will include all three speakers and included postage and >packaging etc. <snip> >Look forward to hearing from you. My address is: >78 Greenall Road, >Northwich, Cheshire >CW9 5RN >Yours, >Eric I will post you a cheque on the 5th of May :o) Regards Sean
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:44:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:05:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:25:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:18:27 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? <snip> >Being an ex-alcoholic or an ex-addict does not preclude anyone >from being a 'credible' person. <snip> [sigh] You don't get it, Velez. Read my response to GT McCoy. You're still missing the point. And don't take everything so personally. It isn't all about _you_, ya know. Bobbie "It is the duty of rational beings to hear both sides, and not to suppose that the ultimate truth... is to be gathered by listening solely to the immediate warcries of one...." ---J. Franklin Jameson ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:03:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:49:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Felder >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:53:58 +0600 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:27:27 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:33:05 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:18:27 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? <snip> >It doesn't matter if you play by the mainstream's rules... the >mainstream doesn't play by those same rules. Those are only >_your_ rules for _you_, obstacles placed in your path to impede >you, hurdles only you will have to leap over, requirements only >_you_ will have to satisfy... the moment it begins to appear >that you might satisfy their electric rabbit requirements they >will speed the rabbit up in the form of that receding >evidentiary horizon Van Gemert was talking about... co-opt the >idea for themselves, or make it the subject of a bad faith >whisper campaign... progress is zero, as planned. Oh, I know that "they" like to keep moving the goal post. But "they" can do that because "they" are the mainstream. It doesn't alter the fact that you have to play by those rules in order to get in the game. If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. The whole point is that in order to be given any degree of consideration, one has to take away _any_ points that could give ammunition to the crowd that would rip a study to shreds over the smallest little detail. >Don't expect fair play anywhere it's not likely... don't believe >any institution they make TV shows about. [g]. Oh, believe me, I've learned very quickly lately that fair play is a very rare commodity, chivalry is dead and John Wayne died a long time ago. :) Bobbie "It is the duty of rational beings to hear both sides, and not to suppose that the ultimate truth .... is to be gathered by listening solely to the immediate warcries of one...." ---J. Franklin Jameson ========== Bobbie "Jilain" Felder ---> backwoods of Mississippi ---> USA ---> planet Earth ---> somewhere in the Cosmos www.jilain.com ==========
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 22 CCCRN News: First UK Crop Formation 2002 and Other From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 04:20:38 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:01:41 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: First UK Crop Formation 2002 and Other CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada April 22, 2002 _____________________________ FIRST UK CROP FORMATION OF 2002 AND OTHER UPDATES The first formation of the year has been reported at Soberton, Hampshire, England, found April 12. A simple 60 foot circle / ring in canola, with two small standing circles in the ring. A humble but welcome start to another season in the centre of cropcircledom... http://cropcircleconnector.com/2002/soberton2002a/soberton2002a.html A couple additional aerial photos of Midale, Saskatchewan #6 from 2001 have been added to the web site (better than the previous video stills), showing the unusual looping and overlapping lay patterns (see also the ground shots): http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/midale601photos.html Survey diagram for comparison: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/midale601diagrams.html There is a basic if less complex similarity to the Giant's Grave, UK formation from 2000, in terms of general shape and with two of the lobes / circles being the same, the third different (one clockwise, the other two counterclockwise in this case). The mottled looking effect is from alfalfa which was growing in with the wheat. Also re. the seven Midale, Saskatchewan formations from last year, having just returned from Estevan/Midale again last weekend (for an Unsolved Mysteries segment to air in July on Lifetime in the US), it was interesting to note a report from John Erickson, our pilot assistant in Estevan (and manager of the local airport there) that after a recent snowfall in the area, the ground was covered except for inside the formations themselves (which can still be seen in the field stubble left from last fall, although the snow was gone by the time I got there). This is similar to a report from Janet Ossebaard and Bert Janssen in Holland on Swirled News: http://www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=3D396 As in that case, the snow apparently either melted faster or never remained in the formations to begin with. ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca To unsubscribe, send an e-mail with Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522 Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 22 Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.22.02 From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 04:42:26 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:11:44 -0400 Subject: Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.22.02 ERAS NEWS The E-News Service of The Eras Project http://www.geocities.com/erasproject April 22, 2002 _____________________________ WEEKLY BRIEFING 4.22.02 EXOBIOLOGY The Search for Extraterrestrial Life Chlorophyll Patches Found on Mars? http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?j35630782&w=3D573575 Mars Odyssey: New Photo of 'Face', 'City' and 'D&M Pyramid' http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20020413a.html Analysis of Mars Odyssey THEMIS Imagery of the "D&M Pyramid" http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/ Cydonian Imperative: A Closer Look at the D&M Pyramid http://www.geocities.com/macbot/imperative30.html New Geometry of the D&M Pyramid http://www.geocities.com/erasproject/dm_diagram.jpg http://www.geocities.com/erasproject/dm_photo.jpg Do Geologists Dream of Windblown Sheep? http://www.enterprisemission.com/sheep.htm Looking for Life in All the Right Places http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_devore_astrobio_020418.html Study Narrows Candidate Stars that Might Harbor Earths http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/other_earths_020410.html There Could Be at Least a Billion 'Earths' Out There, Say Scientists http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=3D283413 Scientists Closing In On ET's http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/12/27556.html QUANTA Science and Technology Social Scientists Prepare for Asteroid Impacts: Any Intelligent Life Would http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_asteroid_vakoch_020411.html Quark Star Glimmers: A New Form of Matter? http://www.nature.com/nsu/020408/020408-8.html Evidence Found for New Form of Ultra-Dense Matter http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/new_matter_020410.html Odd Objects at Solar System's Edge Redefine Eccentricity http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/kuiper_dual_020417.html Venus Express Mission Would Explore Sister Planet Mysteries http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/venus_express_020410.html The Music of Black Holes http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/blackhole_music_020409-1.htm= l Even Quiet Black Holes Shout Sometimes http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/quiet_blackholes_020418.html To Make a Star, Add Ice and Stir http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/space_ice_020409.html Awareness: Mystery of the Mind http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0%2C1286%2C51765%2C00.html Human Genome Map 'Ready in 2003' http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/04/15/china.genome.reut/index.html BIOSPHERE Environment Studies: Global Warming Could be Worse http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/04/17/climate.change/index.html ____________________________ Eras News is the e-news service of The Eras Project, providing the latest news, reports and updates, including the Weekly Briefing, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe Eras News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca To unsubscribe, send an e-mail with Unsubscribe Eras News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Eras Project is a non-profit future studies project focusing on the leading-edge news, events, ideas and discoveries that will shape the future of humanity as we enter the 21st Century and a new Era. 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522 Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/erasproject =A9 The Eras Project, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 02:27:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:54:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 - Velez >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 15:40:18 +0600 >Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:16:50 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #361 <snip> >>Hi Alfred, >>Ok, I'll chew up some bandwidth just for you. :) >Causality shudders! [g] Hi Alfred, I wrote: >>Tell me what some of these "foundational issues, gripes and >>concerns" are that are not being addressed. (in your view.) >>We'll address them here. I've got nothing better to do and >>nobody I'd rather do it with. :) You responded: >Wow! What an opportunity to discuss them "right here", now >wasted and gone forever! "A gambit of debate, a shadow of >deceit, the deeper breaths now taken, you've dug in against >retreat"? "Retreat?" Am I being "attacked." I had no idea I was involved in a combative advance, hold, or retreat (confrontational) situation. I thought we were just talking. :) >>Why should time make a difference Alfred. >Because I have been compelled to be so contrary to perceptions >of corruption in the mainstream over the years. I've had to >stand across the *fence* from you, and others you respect, too >often to be comfortable in the last year or so. One would have >thought you'd have left me along with some others on your >seemingly very singular path. Time is familiarity leading to >contempt? Time gives one time to change ones mind, all the >time... I don't know Alfred, you make it sound like you're surprised I don't hate you. Should I? As for the others I may have 'left behind' along the way, I don't quite get your point. Of the more than 600 people I have personally worked with over the last seven years I have only had occasion to 'cut loose' about a dozen. If you ask me that's not a bad batting average and not beyond what would be expected under any circumstances. Why don't you ask some of your buddies who was there for them 24/7 when they were frantically seeking some one to talk to and maybe get some help from? Then ask 'em how much I charged them for the service? If I dropped a few people over the years it was at my own discretion. I don't 'solicit' anyone. They solicit me. I don't charge for talking to anyone so I figure I have every right in the world to choose whom I am going to give the time of my life to. You made several curious/cryptic remarks in this post. The following is just one. >Time is familiarity leading to contempt? Time gives one time to >change ones mind, all the time... Are you speaking for me or yourself here? If you've changed your mind about me you don't have to 'poetize' it. Just tell me. If you think I should have changed my mind about you, it only serves to make me wonder why. Maybe I should re-evaluate. You keep hinting that I should. Unlike some others, I listen when people talk to me. I _hear_ you. If I need to "change my mind" about you... let me know. :) >But we were never talking about me, dude. The subject was a >different class of roses _all_ together. I get the impression >that you keep trying to imply that I'm operating out of some >kind of pretentious artistic pique when the manner of my >expressions "will be what they will be" and it is the subject of >the expressions that concerns me. "imply that you're operating out of some kind of pretentious artistic pique"? I can't even say it without getting tongue tied much less "imply" anything of the kind. I have no idea where you pulled that one from. Alfred, I _always_ respond directly, and as concisely as I can, to specific statements/comments that you've made. If I thought (what you said) I would have said just that. Not what I _did_ say. In the response I wrote I was addressing an insulting remark you made about Dick Hall and expressing 'my take' on Dave Furlotte's "My Take On It" piece on the SDI program in question. I don't recall saying anything about "pretentious artistic pique" whether it be yours or anybody else's. Putting words in my mouth? Or was it a Freudian slip? I can only be held accountable for what comes out of my mouth, not what comes out of your head amigo. :) >>We have different styles, Alfred. Yours comes through in your >>Odes. My way is more blunt. I am more direct, as right to the >>point (nitty-gritty) as I can be, each and every time. We may >>disagree on certain issues or certain people but I have never >>questioned your style, motives or integrity. Something you have >>recently granted yourself permission to do with me. > >And _that_ sounds a little like you're saying that _I_ am the >first to make a personal attack on _you_ when I already pointed >that that's what you were doing to _me_ a post or so ago. Apparently there is some discrepancy between what I meant and what it 'sounded like' to you. >Your _idea_ of style is authoritarian Occasionally yes. When my better judgement tells me it's called for. I don't respond to every situation in any 'one way.' Authoritarian or otherwise. Nobody does. People who have only "one" way that they are capable of responding to anyone, anything, and in all situations are psychotic. I'm not psychotic. Neurotic yes, to a degree. But not psychotic. :) >Most know whether they have it or not, I cannot presume >upon yours. You should not presume that I have. I was talking about honesty and integrity. But ok, I won't assume that you have either of the two if that is what you wish. I just figured that years of reading your expressed thoughts, feelings and beliefs, in conjunction with many private communications, was enough to give me a fairly accurate impression of you. (Ditto from me to you) But if I shouldn't be presuming it, I won't. Thanks for the warning anyway. (?) >>A big part of the current problem is that constructive >>criticism is being misconstrued as destructive criticism. >I think you're pushing that through your own filter, hoss. Your >enmity with regard to the subject in question is passionate and >_legend_. Gee Alfred, is the simple alternative explanation that I may have been _justified_ (in regard to the subject in question) so far outside of the range of possibility that it hasn't even occurred to you? Does it have to be "enmity" to the exclusion of all else? Pretty sure of your read on my motivations eh? I hear the psychic hotline is hiring again. You might want to check it out, Nostradamus. ;) >Given that failure of any investigation is guaranteed >if it is first entered into with contempt, as John Spencer >pointed out, it is argued that your criticism can be taken as >destructive, the way things are, whether it is or _not_. I can't help what people do with my posts in their own heads or how they choose to interpret them. Neither can I control what kind of personal filters they are sifting them through. Every time I post I try my best to make myself as easy to understand as I can. However, after I hit the send button it's out of my control and it has a tendency sometimes to take on a life of its own. I do go out of my way though to say precisely what I mean. Sometimes I get it right on and sometimes I don't. Same goes for you and every other participating member of this List. >Well - slap me and call me Susan, but all I could see is the >usual knee-jerk reaction to a pro-active effort. Again, not me, not anybody, can be held responsible for how some one else 'sees' something or how it 'sounds' to them. Alfred, we differ in one major respect, I don't jump on board every band wagon, circus or dog and pony show that rolls into town. I ask questions. I check things out carefully. I apply as much thought - critical or otherwise - to everyone and everything as possible. Things like 'Dieting for Disclosure' or the selling of un-redacted abductee files to a third party, or more recently, 'spurious' medical studies or proposed surgeries on live TV involving abductees are the very kinds of things that elicit my ire. You may have chosen to support one or more of those things where I did not. That doesn't make me right or you wrong. It also doesn't make either of our responses to such things a "knee-jerk" reaction. I "assume" because I respect you as an intelligent and thoughtful person (or shouldn't I be assuming anything again?) that you have given as much thought and consideration to the positions you adopt/ support as I have given to mine. If we're going to play that game, I could turn around accuse you of being easily duped by charlatans and transparent fakers. But I'm not. If you were to show me the same respect you wouldn't be characterizing any of the responses I have made as "knee-jerk reactions". It's only a way to raise your own stock at the expense of another. I never do that with you. I'd appreciate some reciprocity. I'm not as thoughtless as your choice of words implies. >>Alfred, I tried to do the same thing several years ago. The >>difference between that, and this is; I went out of my way to >>contact the most knowledgeable and experienced people I could >>find. I needed to first determine what the correct way to >>proceed and to learn what needed to be done in order to have >>such a study acknowledged and accepted by the mainstream >>scientific/academic community. >Hmmmmmm... again, no difference here and there. You could be >discussing either event from _this_ alien view. I beg to differ. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. >C'mon, John. You're an arguable enemy of every proactive effort >save your own. Pistols at dawn? This is what I meant when I said that, lately, you have "assumed" that it's ok to insult me any you way you like. It's _not_ okay. What you just said is a slap in the face insult and as far from the facts as anyone could get. Hit the Archive and read through my posts over the years. You're dead wrong. Alfred, you wrote me a 26 page long response here and I just don't have the time (or inclination) to respond to _all_ of your many creative personal insults. Excuse me. Apparently you've undergone a change in the way you view me or feel about me personally. As sad as that is to me, there isn't very much I can do about it. (Or care to at this point.) You are as entitled to your take as I am to mine. Let's just leave it at that. Unless you have anything else that you'd like to lay at my doorstep... I've had about as much as I am willing to take from you. If this is what you wanted, you've succeeded. Feel better? I don't. Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:45:38 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:05:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Morris >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 23:26:54 EDT >Subject: Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? >>From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:22:24 +0100 >>Subject: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? >>I have been asked to post the following important statement by >>Philip Mantle and Tim Matthews: >>Thursday 18th April 2002 >>As a result of recent and renewed interest in the 'Alien Autopsy' >>film engendered by the publication of new evidence in UFO >>Magazine (UK and USA) and publications in France and Russia, a >>new witness has come forward who claims to have seen film >>footage from an incident relating specifically to the AA >>scenario. >>The witness says he saw the footage in the 1950s and was shown >>it by his father who, it is claimed, filmed the incident, parts >>of which Ray Santilli purchased later on. >Boiling that down, we in essence have the alleged camermans son >who has stepped forth. By using the term "parts of which" are we >to infer that additional footage exists? >The other question is the camerman still alive or dead? >>We have some intriguing detail on this man's father, his >>military record, serial/rank number and so on. >Naturally we realize that this (claims of alleged military >service is absolutly meaningless unless and until we have >independent copies of this individuals military record say from >the National Personel Records Center in St. Louis. >Remember Corso's claimed military service, verses what his >military record actually showed? >_Assuming_ that the military record checks out, we then need to >find out about his whereabouts for May and June 1947, i.e. what >the records show. It is likely they will show very little other >then something about being stationed *perhaps* in Forth Worth or >where ever he allegedly was when the film was shot but it may go >along way. It also may identify particular unit historys that >should be foraged for information. Having spoken to Tim and Phil over the weekend at BUFOSC's 2nd successful National mini-Conf I think it is true to say that their only concern is the truth. It is terribly inconvenient when new witnesses appear and I for one have offered to assist in the investigation into this new lead. I am sure they are grateful for your concerns - rest assured they will get to the truth of the matter! Eric M.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: British Government and UFOs - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:01:16 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:09:01 -0400 Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs - Morris >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:18:52 +0100 >Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs >>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: British Government and UFOs >>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:26:08 +0100 <snip> >As to Georgina's insistence that this argument is only publicity >for our new book, she is wrong. It is about presenting facts >correctly and honestly to the public. >If Ufologists can't get their facts straight about the origin of >documents, then what hope is there for any veracity in their UFO >research? With this in mind, I see that Nick is now claiming knowledge of "bombs into saucers". I understand that this is simply borrowing research done by Tim Matthews since 1996. If so, this is another poor show and will, again, not uncover anything we didn't already know, except that people still listen to Nick because of his quarter-time UFO job with the UK govt. Eric M
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 22 Viggiani On SDI - 04-20-02 From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:47:33 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:16:50 -0400 Subject: Viggiani On SDI - 04-20-02 Implementing Victor Viggiani's Suggestion Hi - This past weekend, Sat-Sun April 20-21, on Strange Days Indeed, Errol's guest co-host, Victor Viggiani made a plea that the mainstream media stop treating UFO-related information like a joke. ("Little green men", and so forth.) And the wish that UFO issues could go mainstream is expressed over and over on this List. Although I'm only a UFO news follower and not a researcher, I am a researcher/activist on a track that parallels UFO issues and is a full order of magnitude more difficult to get into the mainstream press than UFOs, in spite of a fair bit of public domain evidence. So when I heard Mr. Viggiani's plea, it really twanged a resonant chord with me. I'd like to share some ideas I've had for our cause, which I can't implement, but I think the UFO community can. One major way in which you-all are ahead of us is that you have 86% of U.S. citizens believing the government is covering up. Having a whopping 86% of citizens on your side is a huge advantage - kind of like the solid boosters on the space shuttle. Secondly, you at least have some major media willing to print annual stories about UFO reporting statistics. That is a big foothold. Third, you have a network of MUFON groups, who are screened by the invitation-only process which makes them much more likely to appeal to skeptical editors. That's like the three shuttle liquid fuel rocket engines, publicity-wise. So if my group had your advantages, here's what I would do next, to get this shuttle off the pad: 1. Try to persuade MUFON to recruit local folks as auxiliaries, not for research, but for publicity work. They should be able to do well with this, since they are starting with an 86% support rate. These recruits would be of two types - writers and administrative volunteers. Children, friends, and relatives of MUFON members, possibly. The writers would probably be best recruited, to aim for best quality available, by approaching English teachers in high schools, journalism profs in local colleges, and possibly staffs on school papers. My experience is that schools tend to be pools of some really exceptional talent, which is harder to locate once the talent disperses into the work force. 2. The first task, possibly for the administrative volunteers, would be to interview someone in a seniour editing position with newspapers in their area, and ask them if they are willing to print well written articles relating to UFO disclosure. At the time of meeting or writing letters (might be a bit better than emails, and should be no longer than one page, and best on the host MUFON group's stationery), the volunteer contact people should state that the articles will be written to the specifications of the newspaper, and that the newspaper will be able to edit the copy. [With today's graphics packages, cranking out stationery is a breeze if the local MUFON group doesn't have any printed. The thing here is to guard against overly fancy fonts, decor- ations, or fancy paper backgrounds where the background overwhelms the message.] 4 I've found that seniour editors in the Nation- World sections of the papers tend to be a bit more open minded than other sections. 5. Another place to think about locating willing talent might be retired journalists whose careers and pensions are not on the line, and who may have good contacts. There are often press clubs in larger cities - a good place to look for these folks. If each regional MUFON group could get just one article per month into just one paper in their region, a goal which is probably possible especially if you have promising young writers or an established retired writer or two, you ARE THEN MAINSTREAM. Let TV and radio pick it up from there. I sincerely wish we had your advantages - and from hearing the Strange Days Indeed shows on the radio and reading from this List, I really don't think you UFO researchers realize how close you are to achieving mainstream status. A bit of elbow grease and schmoozing will probably turn up that all- important first favourable paper. And John Velez' international disclosure petition would be a fantastic first story! Eleanor White Hamilton, Ontario
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Gutierez From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:15:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:19:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? - Gutierez >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:22:24 +0100 >Subject: Mantle & Matthews Have 'AA' Witness? >As a result of recent and renewed interest in the 'Alien Autopsy' >film engendered by the publication of new evidence in UFO >Magazine (UK and USA) and publications in France and Russia, a Hello! I didn't hear "new evidence" about Roswell in "publications in France"... Can you tell us more, what publications do you refer to? Regards, Gregory Gutierez France http://greguti.free.fr/aleph (French-speaking mail-list for fortean weirdos)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 22 Moderator Message From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:24:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:24:58 -0400 Subject: Moderator Message Since Bobbie Felder & Serge Salvaille have continued to demonstrate their inability to handle a subscription to UFO UpDates - their addresses have been permanently removed from the List. There will be no further posts either to or from them. Use of UFO UpDates bandwidth is not a right but a privilege. Errol Bruce-Knapp Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Procedural Matters From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:27:30 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:47:59 -0400 Subject: Procedural Matters Not presuming to tread on the territory of Errol's domain, but might it not be helpful for us as participants to try to agree on our own about some protocols? I have in mind a simple screening device by which we might decide on legitimate posts. Acceptable posts would 1. Offer new factual information or evidence or ideas; 2. Comment on others' posts of information, evidence, or ideas [without ad hominem remarks]; or 3. Convey news of potentially general interest. What else is there that is defensible? Anything that does not meet these criteria rightfully ought to be refused. Most conflict seems to arise when the posters start getting too personal [ad hominem], insulting, and egotistical in their remarks. When that happens, Errol should (with our blessings) flat out reject them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:40:58 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:52:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Gates >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:25:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:18:27 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? <snip> I think where Bobbie was going with this was the notion that any serious, so called scientific study, of abductions should have only study candidates that the skeptics can't come back on and say something like "well so and so had been on drugs 30 years ago" and "so and so inhaled once during college so that discredits them and by discrediting them, the skeptics can discredit the entire study. When Alvarez came up with his then (1979) very controverserial theory about a massive impact killing off the Dinos, he was almost bitterly opposed by scientists who were advocates of various theorys such as sudden global cooling, global warming, and many others. It has been in the last 6 or so years that main stream science has embraced the theory and evidence, down only to arguing which particular impact crater did it and how big said crater was. The current thinking is a crater off of the Yucatan. What I don't think she fully understands is that it _will not_ matter _what_ persons are in the study because the skeptics will use anything and everything they can possibly come up with to discredit such a study. It would get down to things like "so and so and 39 parking tickets..." or "so and so divorced his or her spouse and the ex claims...." and so on. The point being is nothing on earth will ever satisfy the skeptics. Even if you come up with _iron clad_ evidence, they will just default and say something like "well, perhaps in 10 years the non ET answer such as weather balloon, venus, stars, hoax etc will come forward so we will just defer until then. Also keep in mind that with every "scientific study" that is done which ends up supporting abductions and abuctees, the skeptics will also trot out various studys done by skeptical scientists which will suggest any other explaination but ET, abductions or abductees. Naturally this will be after they raise doubt because person X had 39 parking tickets so they are scientifically unreliable. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 New Alien Images From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:54:06 -0400 Subject: New Alien Images List, I've added some new drawings, a few of which are alien/UFO- related, to my sketch gallery. Drop on by! http://mactonnies.com/doodles.html --Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Brigham From: Tim Brigham <TBrigham2@cox.net> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:26:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:12:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Brigham >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:04:02 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? >>List, >>I was reading a book on quantum physics and came across an >>illustration that showed shapes very similar (and in one case >>identical) to the 'glyphs' drawn by Jesse Marcel (Jr. & Sr.) of >>Roswell fame. >I propose that someone shows Dr. Marcel the hydrogen graphics to >see if he remembers any of the shapes besides the one I mention >in the post below. Mac, all, Hopefully, and hopefully obviously, with some false 'lures' inserted in a sort of line-up to add some sort of control, lest the results be tainted and an interesting chance to learn something lost. Don't mean to belabor the obvious, and I'll gladly give you the benefit of the doubt that this was implied in your statement, but still worth stating. Best, Tim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Brigham From: Tim Brigham <TBrigham2@cox.net> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:51:37 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:19:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Brigham >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:25:30 -0400 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Velez >>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:18:27 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:09:05 -0400 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:24:00 -0500 >>>>Subject: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >><snip> >>>You have mis-classified a very dangerous substance (DMT) as a >>>"recreational" drug. You have also mis-interpreted what was said >>>in the the text book you are quoting. >>I did not classify the drug. I quoted from a "Recreational Drug >>Information" website. Hence, use of the term "recreational >>drug". Dangerous, yes. But that doesn't exclude it from being used 'recreationally' by some. In any case.... <snip> >>You cannot effectively address the point I was trying to make >>because you apparently missed the point I was making. The point >>was not whether this or that illegal "recreational" drug could >>be a cause of abduction experience. The point was that anyone >>who had a history of drug abuse/drug addiction should be weeded >>out of a study on abduction. It is a matter of credibility, not >>a matter of pharmacology. > >Several years ago David Jacobs was up from Philadelphia visiting >Budd for a week-end. I had been invited for dinner and enjoyed >an evening of relaxed conversation with both of these most >interesting gentlemen. Because of my background/history we got >into a 'chicken and the egg' type of discussion regarding >whether the trauma of a lifetime of repeated abduction causes a >higher than average percentage of abductees to self-medicate. >The consensus was that the answer is, yes. It is _highly_ >probable that a portion of any group of individuals experiencing >repeated trauma would end up 'addicted' to some kind of >'medication.' What that percentage is, or if there are any drugs >that are favored over others for abuse are all unknown >quantities. > >Assuming the hypothesis is accurate, then one would expect to >find a percentage of those reporting abduction to also have some >history of 'self-medication' (substance abuse) There _are_ some >ex-this or ex-that's among abductees. The incidence of a history >of substance abuse may be higher among the abductee population >than in the general population. No 'studies' have been performed >that make a case one way or the other. But that it "makes sense" >that some abductees are going to have a history of substance >abuse is almost a foregone conclusion. Before someone is an >"abductee" they are a human being. Human beings respond to >repeated stress or trauma in many different ways. One of those >is to self-medicate. If these people are to be dismissed only >because they reacted like a 'human being' to 'inhuman' >circumstances, you're going to wipe out an important part of the >potential database. >Being an ex-alcoholic or an ex-addict does not preclude anyone >from being a 'credible' person. <snip> Somewhat surprisingly, I rather tend to think that John's point here is a valid and well founded one. We should expect self- medicating behavior from anyone who undergoes a serious trauma, whatever the nature of it turns out to be. However, I would agree that hallucinogenic drug use should be 'screened for,' though not alone exclude a case from serious consideration. Bobbie, if you are saying that drug use of any nature should preclude someone from being credible, I must respectfully disagree. It is not an issue of credibility, IMO, but rather of weeding out possible alternative or confounding explanations, as with some of the obvious similarities between DMT effects and entity encounters. >Bobbie, the _sole_ reason you brought up this whole discussion >in the first place is because you know that I am a recovered >Heroin addict. I honestly don't believe that had anything to do with it John, but I can only hope I am right. >What you wish to use to shame and dismiss me with >is something I am proud of. That I wear like a badge of honor >not one of shame. John, you know I feel that often there are plenty of _valid_ reasons to dismiss you ;) but you've made a good point here: the matter you've mentioned is not one of those reasons. >Who 'vouches' for you? I have a 'history' and an evolution here >(on UpDates and in ufology) that is directly related to the >subject at hand and that involves some of its most well >respected researchers. Years ago Budd Hopkins presented me and >my case to the public for consideration. When he did that, he >put his own reputation behind me and his own >findings/conclusions regarding my "case." No one needs to be vouched for. Actions, including those in the form of words, speak for themselves, though often we seem to interpret them, both our own and others', drastically differently. Best, Tim Cognitive Neuroscientist Philosophical Constructivist Life Agnostic
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:46:25 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:21:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? - Randle >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:40:58 EDT >Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:25:30 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? >>>From: Bobbie Felder <jilain@ebicom.net> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:18:27 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Abduction & 'Recreational Drugs'? ><snip> >When Alvarez came up with his then (1979) very controverserial >theory about a massive impact killing off the Dinos, he was >almost bitterly opposed by scientists who were advocates of >various theorys such as sudden global cooling, global warming, >and many others. It has been in the last 6 or so years that main >stream science has embraced the theory and evidence, down only >to arguing which particular impact crater did it and how big >said crater was. The current thinking is a crater off of the >Yucatan. I'll go off-topic here to point out that while it seems that documentary makers have embraced Alvaez, the scientific community is not in agreement. Personally, I prefer Robert Bakker's theory of disease because it explains why the dinosaurs disappeared while the mammals, reptiles and birds did not. It seems odd that the meteorite would eliminate one entire species but not others. It killed off the dinosaurs in the oceans but not the sharks or the turtles or crocodiles. Louis Psihoyos's Hunting Dinosaurs contains a section in which the leaders in the field give their opinions about what lead to the extinction of the dinosaurs and there is little agreement among them. The point here, I think, is that there is not a single explanation, but a combination of factors that leads to the very end. It's an example that I believe we would be wise to note. There might not be a single answer for the riddles of UFO sightings, alien abduction or crop circles. While one answer doesn't fit everything, it might fit some and that reduces the problem. And for those interested, my personal theory is that a predator evolved that was so good, so efficient, that it ate all the other dinosaurs before turning on its fellows, wiping them out as well. And no, I do not have a shred of evidence for this theory but that never stops us in the UFO field. ;-) KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Procedural Matters - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:24:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Procedural Matters - Hamilton >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Procedural Matters >Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:27:30 +0000 >Not presuming to tread on the territory of Errol's domain, but >might it not be helpful for us as participants to try to agree >on our own about some protocols? >I have in mind a simple screening device by which we might >decide on legitimate posts. >Acceptable posts would >1. Offer new factual information or evidence or ideas; >2. Comment on others' posts of information, evidence, or >ideas [without ad hominem remarks]; or >3. Convey news of potentially general interest. >What else is there that is defensible? >Anything that does not meet these criteria rightfully ought to >be refused. Most conflict seems to arise when the posters start >getting too personal [ad hominem], insulting, and egotistical in >their remarks. When that happens, Errol should (with our >blessings) flat out reject them. I think this pretty much covers it, maybe adding news items or website updates, but definitely without ad hominem remarks. Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 351 From: Edoardo Russo <e.russo@cisu.org> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:38:10 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:26:20 -0400 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 351 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 351 - 11APRIL 2002 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) Contents: - New 'Flap' Over The Alps - Italian Sightings: 100 Cases In Three Months - A New Book About Nazi UFOs NEW 'FLAP' OVER THE ALPS At about 10:20 p.m. on Saturday, 6 April, a luminous body reddish in color, followed by a green-bluish trail, was observed and in some cases photographed, for a few seconds by very many people in an area covering Northeast Italy, Czechoslovakia, Southern Germany and the Netherlands. In our country, the Italian Center for UFO Studies (CISU) has heretofore gathered reports from the provinces of Modena, Bolzano, Trento and Udine. In particular, many inhabitants in the province of Bolzano bombarded the emergency "118" telephone lines with reports about the possible downing of an airplane. So it was also in Baviera, where pilots in flight also reported to the control tower the presence of the strange luminous phenomenon in the sky, and where the finding of a meteorite was first reported and subsequently denied. Following some initial uncertainty, owing the almost simultaneous re-entry of space debris into the atmosphere, the event was finally identified as a bolide, i.e. a meteoric phenomenon of remarkable luminosity which, as on other occasions, also generated UFO sightings and was even caught by some stations of the European Fireball Network in the Czech Republic. It is worth noting that later on, during the course of the same night, there were reported two other similar albeit less sensational phenomena: the first taking place over Belgium and the Netherlands, the second over the United Kingdom. [Reuters, 7 April; Bild, 7 April; Il Nuovo, 7 April; Alto Adige, Trento and Bolzano editions, 7 April; Il Messaggero Veneto, Udine edition, 7 April; Dolomiten, 8 April; collaboration by Stefano Innocenti, Roberto Labanti, Gildo Person=E8 and Giuseppe Stilo.; Ufo-Italia, 8 April; various messages on the CCNET, Meteor and Superbolidi mailing lists, 7-9 April; report and synthesis of data by Roberto Labanti.] ITALIAN SIGHTINGS: 100 CASES IN THREE MONTHS The number of alleged UFO sightings in Italy this year has already surpassed the 100 benchmark, based on data gathered and catalogued by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (CISU). There are in fact 44 cases gathered for the month of March (following the 16 for February and the 41 of January), even though more than a half of the month=92s reports resulted from the passage of a bolide observed in various regions on March 19th. Lombardy leads the way in the quarterly breakdown as the most- visited regionswith 27 cases, followed by Emilia Romagna (with 20) and Tuscany (12). The anomalous prevalence of the northern regions is confirmed with 60 sightings, in sharp contrast with the 30 of the central regions and the 10 of the south. There were 13 daytime sightings, 5 close encounters, 1 case involving humanoids, 2 photos and 2 films and 5 cases involving effects on the physical surroundings. Thanks to the work conducted by CISU telematic working group on UFO sightings, the detailed month-by-month lists are already available for reference on the Internet site of the Italian Center for UFO Studies complete with summaries and source data for each sighting at URL: http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/casi0201.htm [Collaboration by Giorgio Abraini and Sebastiano Ridolfi.] A NEW BOOK ABOUT NAZI UFOS The English writer Gary Hyland last year penned a new book dedicated (at least in part) to the =93Nazi UFOs=94 theme and enigmatically entitled "Blue Fires", which Newton & Compton publications now make available to us in its Italian translation, under the title: "I segreti perduti della tecnologia nazista - Le ricerche e gli esperimenti degli scienziati di Hitler, fino ad oggi tenuti nascosti" (=93The Lost Secrets of Nazi Technology - Research and Experiments by Hitler=92s Scientists, Hitherto Kept Hidden=94). The volume totals 208 pages (at the price of 13.90 Euro), with eight graphic reconstructions and no photos or notes, but with a bibliography and an index. Its thesis is the effective existence of (not extraterrestrial) flying saucers as secret weapons of first the Germans and then the Americans. [Collaboration by Paolo Fiorino and Roberto Labanti; Ufo-Italia, 8 April.] Collaborators on this edition were: Giorgio Abraini, Paolo Fiorino, Stefano Innocenti, Roberto Labanti, Gildo Person=E8, Sebastiano Ridolfi and Giuseppe Stilo. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader 1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684 ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gjpresto@mediaone.net Webpage: http://profiles.yahoo.com/italoman9 - - - (c) 2002 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 329.02.79 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Where In The World Is Simone Mendez? From: Karl Pflock <Ktperehwon@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:57:19 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:30:52 -0400 Subject: Where In The World Is Simone Mendez? Colleagues, Friends, Enemies et al, Does anyone out there know the whereabouts of Simone Mendez and, if so, how I might contact her? I would like to send her inscribed copies of my Roswell (in which she's mentioned and her assistance is acknowledged) and Jim Moseley's and my new Shockingly Close to the Truth! If you have any information that might help, please contact me off-list. Thanks. -- Cheers, KARL
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: New Alien Images - Connors From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:42:35 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:28:48 -0400 Subject: Re: New Alien Images - Connors >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:59:06 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: New Alien Images >List, >I've added some new drawings, a few of which are alien/UFO- >related, to my sketch gallery. Drop on by! >http://mactonnies.com/doodles.html >--Mac Tonnies Wow, that was fun, Mac! I have visions of 500 years hence when they are discovered in a dusty archive somewhere by hybrid Homo Sapien sapiens. One says to the other, "Gosh, did our ancestors really have hair and smoke plants?" <G> Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Procedural Matters - Meiners From: Jean Meiners <legalco@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:43:23 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:00:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Procedural Matters - Meiners >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Procedural Matters >Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:27:30 +0000 >Not presuming to tread on the territory of Errol's domain, but >might it not be helpful for us as participants to try to agree >on our own about some protocols? >I have in mind a simple screening device by which we might >decide on legitimate posts. >Acceptable posts would >1. Offer new factual information or evidence or ideas; >2. Comment on others' posts of information, evidence, or >ideas [without ad hominem remarks]; or >3. Convey news of potentially general interest. >What else is there that is defensible? >Anything that does not meet these criteria rightfully ought to >be refused. Most conflict seems to arise when the posters start >getting too personal [ad hominem], insulting, and egotistical in >their remarks. When that happens, Errol should (with our >blessings) flat out reject them. Many times just talking about the experiences one has had, its ramifications on the group as a whole, and having a legitimate discussion on the pros and cons might be helpful also. It is truly great to know how strong each and everyone's expertises are, but when it hits headlong and doesn't progress in any direction except backwards and into each other's faces, it no longer a discussion but a bashing session. Just a thought. Jean Meiners
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Hickson Recording At Kaeser Konsulting From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:13:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:07:35 -0400 Subject: Hickson Recording At Kaeser Konsulting Hi All, I just got back from visiting Steve Kaeser's website. I was out there listening to a bit of Charlie Hickson's testimony (Pascagoola, Mississippi abduction case) that Steve has archived on his site along with a bunch of other interesting and valuable sound files. You can check it all out at: http://www.konsulting.com/audio_clips.htm Take a moment and listen carefully to Charlie talking about what happened to him and Calvin. I've spoken to Charlie. Budd Hopkins knows him (and was one of the people who investigated the case) very well and is a strong supporter of Charlie, Calvin and the case. Charlie is an intelligent, but simple man, in terms of how he communicates. He has a very clear, no nonsense, earthy tone that 'rings true' and lends force to his words/testimony. And I'm not talking about someone who merely 'sounds convincing,' I mean someone whose testimony rings true. There is a difference. I was fortunate to be able to attend many meetings at Budd Hopkins home/studio with other "abductees." I have heard that same ring of truth often enough to recognize it when ever I encounter it. It is an innate almost instinctual sense that I think we all possess to varying degree. We can somehow feel it when we are hearing/being told, the truth. For me it is an almost physical sensation. In much the same way that we almost always know when our children are lying to us, we also know when we are hearing the truth. It's something that just resonates inside of you somewhere. Sure, any one of us and at any time can be fooled by just about anyone with a little 'talent' for telling lies. But for the most part, our own built-in 'radar' (BS detector) is as reliable a tool as any of our other senses. Open your ears, head and heart when you listen to Charlie speak. Turn your radar on full blast. I have heard that same story told the exact same way over and over again by many people from all parts of the world and from all walks of life. Putting aside all the scientific method and 'prove this, prove that, normal approach to things, it is important to stop from time to time and just _listen_ to what the witnesses themselves are reporting. To hear it in their own words. To listen to their voices as they report. There is more information (content) sometimes in a few spoken words than in reams of dry written testimony and analysis that is bereft of live (living) human vibrations. A _few_ spoken words... can speak _volumes!_ :) Excellent website Steve. Anybody interested in hearing the testimony of a witness 'right from the horses mouth' should go and listen to the Charlie Hickson clip at Steve's website. *Wendy - Great job Saturday night on SDI with Errol and Victor. I only wish the quality of some of the recordings you tried to play would have been better. Maybe EBK can do something to clean them up (he's an expert at that kind of thing) and you can come back on SDI and play it all again. I'd love to hear that stuff and I'm certain many others would too. Good stuff. Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition for UFO Information Disclosure! http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 23 Jerry Cohen's Site From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:56:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:18:52 -0400 Subject: Jerry Cohen's Site Hello Errol and group, I've taken a break for awhile but thought I'd put in a plug for my 'once-again' mutated web site. Material's solid (some of your own words) and the subject material is more incredible than ever. It's a lot more "readable" now. New Domain name. http://cohenufo.org/ Best wishes, jc
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 17 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:03:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:56:20 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 17 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 7, Number 17 April 23, 2002 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ DAYLIGHT DISC CAPTURED ON VIDEO IN JENIN The embattled city of Jenin on the West Bank was the site of a startling UFO incident last week. UFO Roundup reader Thomas A. Brown was watching ABC Cable News at Night at 10:30 p.m. Eastern time on Monday, April 16, 2002 when he saw something that made him sit up and take notice. "It was only on for 20 seconds, or you would've missed it," Tom reported, "The scene showed the city of Jenin behind the correspondent. Right there in the clear sky was the UFO. The object was grey and round. It hovered motionless. It did not move" while the commentator spoke. Tom checked other news sources on the Net but "there was no mention in any other press sources." Jenin was the site of extremely heavy fighting last week between the Zahal (Israeli Defense Forces or IDF) and Palestinian fighters before the Israelis pulled out on Thursday, April 18, 2002. "Palestinians say there was a massacre in Jenin, that hundreds of civilians are buried beneath the rubble. Israelis say the death toll is more likely in the dozens and that most, if not all, of the dead are combatants." A visit to the camp Thursday (April 18, 2002) after Israeli forces pulled back from a 15-day occupation, couldn't clear up whether or not there was a massacre. But the stench of death rises over Hawashin, the neighborhood where Abu Spa died and where Palestinian fighters made their last stand before they were killed or captured by Israeli troops." (Editor's Note: Hamid Moussad Abu Spa, age 70, a Palestinian civilian, was killed when an Israeli bulldozer demolished his house in Hawashin, burying him in the rubble. All told, the Zahal is accused of murdering an estimated 500 unarmed civilians in Jenin.) "Entire blocks of apartment buildings and shops have been leveled, the wreckage bulldozed into piles in some places." "Terje Roed-Larsen, the United Nations special envoy to the Middle East, said he tried to get into the camp for 11 straight days before finally being let in Thursday. Looking at the wreckage, he said, 'Nothing can justify an act like this. Of course there are bodies here. You can smell them.'" "The fiercest fighting in the nearly three-week campaign took place here last week, when 23 Israeli troops and an unknown number of Palestinians were killed." (Email Form Report. See also USA Today for April 19, 2002, "Smell of death rises from wreckage of Jenin," page 6A.) (Editor's Comment: We can only hope that the saucer managed to save at least a few of the civilians who were buried alive by Ariel Sharon's bulldozers.) VIRGIN MARY APPEARS AT A CHURCH IN BETHLEHEM "It's being hailed as the first miracle of the 21st Century." "After her statue atop the Church of the Holy Family in Bethlehem was riddled in Israeli-Palestinian gunfire, the Virgin Mary appeared to nuns in a stunning vision and delivered an urgent warning to mankind." One nun of the Daughters of Charity order "said she was 'terrified' by the Virgin's words--especially the grim portent that the entire world could be broken forever under the crushing weight of a new world war." The former Miriam bat-Joachim warned "'of terrors upon terrors, growing like weeds upon the earth,' says one sister, speaking under conditions of anonymity. 'And then she blessed all of us and wept and disappeared.'" "Several awed witnesses have come forward, describing the events of Thursday, March 21, 2002. That night, a smell of roses filled the sanctuary as the Daughters of Charity held their evening prayers." "The sweet scent was soon followed by a high musical, humming sound and a distinct feeling of warmth emanating from the ceiling." "Then, the sisters say, a glowing beam of light gradually formed a likeness of the Blessed Virgin 'like a film coming into focus.'" "Tears were running down her face, and she uttered a prophetic warning. Time is growing short, and the promised Judgement Day is nearly at hand." "'I was stunned,' says another sister, 'I mean, at first I almost thought it was a prank, but there's no possible way that it could be. And the feeling in the air was indescribable--such love and sadness filled me. I thought my heart was breaking.'" "'We are on the brink of Doomsday, a war to end all wars as promised in the Book of Revelation. If we hope to survive as a species, we need to accomplish certain acts of compassion and healing before it's too late.'" One week before the apparition, the Church of the Holy Family was the scene of a ferocious firefight between the Israelis and the Palestinians. "Arms outstretched, hands broken, a look of patient suffering on her battle-scarred face, this statue of the Blessed Mother stands over the once-peaceful Church of the Holy Family, one of the holiest places in Bethlehem--now a front line in the hostilities. She was battered and broken when an Israeli tank shell hit the church, which houses a convent and a hospital for pregnant mothers." "When the shell hit, panic broke out in the maternity ward, according to Sister Elizabeth, one of the many nuns on duty during the attack." "'The tank was in front of the hospital and the Palestinians in the streets above,' she recalls, 'They were firing for three hours without pausing for a minute.'" "Israeli spokemen have apologized for the incident, saying their soldiers are instructed not to fire on sites sacred to Christianity, Judaism or Islam.'" (See the tabloid Sun for April 23, 2002, "Virgin Mary's urgent message for mankind," pages 1, 24 and 25.) (Editor's Comment: Has anyone ever explained to "the Count of Mata Cristi," Ariel Sharon, that two millenia ago Miriam was a devout Jew?) FOURTEEN UFOs SIGHTED OVER CHICAGO On Sunday, April 14, 2002, at about 5 p.m., the male witness was cooking food on his backyard barbecue grille in a residential neighborhood of Chicago, Illinois while his family and friends sat around talking. "While grilling outdoors this past Sunday, my friends and I noticed a cluster of stars or satellite-looking objects flying very high and apparently very fast in the skies above Chicago." "At first my buddy noticed three tiny dots of light bright enough to be seen against the cloudless blue sky. Then we started noticing more of these dots of light. The dots were traveling together, heading north, and we quickly counted a total of 14 star-looking things ripping along super-high-up, and they were hard as hell to see. But we all agreed we saw them regardless of what we'd been smoking." "These objects flew in no regular pattern and, although most flew at a relatively constant speed, a few of the objects would zip from behind and on ahead of the rest. This all happened pretty fast, and we were all feeling like, what the hell are those things!? I have never seen anything like what I saw Sunday." (Email Form Report) TRIANGULAR UFO SPOTTED IN NEW SOUTH WALES On Tuesday, April 12, 2002, "an eyewitness reported the passage of a triangular UFO over the town of Forestville in New South Wales," Australia. "According to the report, the UFO flew from north to south, presenting the appearance of a large, silvent flying vehicle with harsh lights on its front portion. The UFO continued its flight at a steady rapid speed estimated at 3,600 kilometers per hour (2,160 miles per hour) and was finally lost from sight behind a grove of trees." (See NotiOVNI for April 21, 2002. Many thanks to Daniel Munoz and Keith Basterfield for this report.) A BIG WEEK FOR UFOs IN WISCONSIN Last week saw three sightings of UFOs in different regions of the USA's Midwestern state of Wisconsin. On Tuesday, April 9, 2002, Stephen Bayer reports, "I was watching TV at about 10:30 p.m. like I usually do on a Tuesday night with one of my friends. My TV is next to a picture window" at his home in Ripon, Wis. (population 6,828) a town on Highway 44 approximately 67 miles (110 kilometers) northwest of Milwaukee. "So I usually see a lot of the outside." "Anyway, I was getting up to go to bed, and I saw something strange at my window. It was in the sky, and it looked like an asteroid but a bit lower and moving at a much slower pace. At first I didn't think anything of it, but when it didn't go away for about a minute, I kept watching." "It was headed to the east, towards the city (Milwaukee--J.T.) We quickly put on our jackets and went outside to watch it. After another minute or two, it stopped in mid-air. I'm guessing about eight miles (12 kilometers) away. It then broke into two separate parts and then disappeared. We went back inside and decided to tell people later, since it was pretty weird." (Editor's Note: Ripon, Wis. was the birthplace of the USA's Republican Party.) On Friday, April 12, 2002, at 8:30 p.m., there was a UFO sighting in tiny Merrimac, Wis., between Devilshead Ski Resort and Lake Wisconsin. According to eyewitness Jerry C., "My wife (Debbie) and son (he's 12--J.C.) were getting home a little late on the (April) 12th at around 8:30 from shopping. It was a clear night. Me and my other son (he is 9--J.C.) were worried so we waited patiently." "They just pulled in the driveway. We went out to meet them. They jumped from the van very puzzled and were yelling, 'Look at that!' and 'It was following us!' There were scared. This was no plane or helicopter." "It was bright yellow" and "as low as two medium trees stuck together " (i.e. about 80 feet or 24 meters above the ground-- J.T.) Moving very slowly, then stopped." "My son ran to get the camcorder but with the lighting in town (nearby) we couldn't adjust it or see it in the viewfinder. We all agreed that it was a UFO. It didn't just sit still, like it vibrated, pulsed" with "little side-to-side movements. Very weird, scary." "We see a lot of weird lights around here at night. We have three acres of yard. It's pretty dark back there where we see most of these lights. But this happened out front, down the road just outside of town, where we tried to tape" the UFO. On Saturday, April 13, 2002, at 8:15 p.m., a boy in Hollister, Wis. reported, "My parents came home about 8:15 p.m., and my mom told me that my dad spotted something weird in the sky. I ran outside and I saw the light moving across the sky from northeast to southwest. It was much larger than the stars that were out. It moved across the sky until it fizzled out just before the tree line. This lasted about 30 seconds to a minute." Hollister, Wis. is on Highway 55 just north of the Menominee Indian Reservation and 56 miles (97 kilometers) northwest of Green Bay. (Many thanks to John Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for these reports.) STAR-LIKE UFOs SIGHTED IN LAKEWOOD, COLORADO On Wednesday, April 17, 2002, at 8:20 p.m., Shane M. Robinson was driving through Lakewood, Colorado (population 144,126), a suburb just west of Denver, when he "two star-like objects heading southeast." Shane reported, "My wife confirmed the sighting by cell phone from a separate location" in the Denver area. "And I spoke to a man at a convenience store who also witnessed it as it happened." "As I drove west of Denver on Highway 6 at about 2020 (8:20 p.m.) Mountain time on April 17, 2002, I was looking at the western sky at dusk to see if I could observe an astronomical event of planets aligning." (Editor's Note: Last week, five planets were in a rare alignment between the moon and Earth's horizon, almost in a straight line.) "As I looked up again, I noticed two star-like lights traveling at what appeared to be a very high altitude and a very high rate of speed (above 200 miles an hour at least--S.M.R.)" "They had no blinking lights but were apparently luminescent. I happened to be on the cell phone with my wife, who was traveling on (Interstate Highway) I-25 North (about 10 miles from where I was--S.M.R.) at the time of my sighting. I told her about it and then pulled over to get gas and get out of my car and look at it." "I saw the lights continue southeast so I yelled over to a man getting out of his truck and asked if he could see the objects. He stated he could. I asked him if he knew what they were, and he stated that he did not know. I started pumping gas and called my wife again and asked if she could see the lights. She responded that she could, and she pulled off the highway to get a better look. She stated that they continued on their way in a southeasterly direction at a constant rate of speed and distance apart until out of sight." "My reaction during the sighting was one of calm surprise and excitement to confirm its existence with my wife. Would someone reply to me on this, as it is a little unsettling to not know why it was there." (Email Form Report) STRANGE EARTHQUAKE SHAKES UP THE USA's NORTHEAST "An earthquake that registered 5.1 on the Richter scale shook (the USA's) Northeast early Saturday," April 20, 2002, "collapsing roads in New York (state) and rattling homes from Maine to Maryland." "The quake, centered in" Au Sable Forks, N.Y., "15 miles (25 kilometers) southwest of Plattsburgh, N.Y. (population 18, 816)," a small city on the western shore of Lake Champlain, "left cracks in foundations and chimneys throughout the region, said Ray Thatcher, director of emergency services for Essex County." "'It was shaking pretty good,' said Jimmy Mussaw, who said he was standing in a Plattsburgh supermarket just before 7 a.m. when the walls and beams began to shake. 'Everybody was running from the back of the store to the front.'" "Essex and Clinton counties, near the Vermont and Canada borders, declared states of emergency, and state inspectors were sent to the Adirondack region to examine bridges and dams for structural damage. No restrictions were placed on travel, but police urged drivers to use caution." "William Ott, a seismologist at Weston Observatory at Boston College, said the quake had a magnitude of 5.1, and at least two aftershocks were reported." "He called the earthquake 'moderate.' A typical magnitude 5.1 earthquake would crack plaster, break windows and cause minor structural damage around the epicenter, he said." "The quake broke off a 100-foot (30-meter) section from one road in Ausable, N.Y., said David Fessette, highway construction supervisor for Clinton County. A (road) crew was filling the area in with limestone Saturday afternoon. Parts of at least two other roads collapsed, and there were several water main breaks in the area." "At Adirondack Mountain Spirits in Ausable, the earthquake rattled liquor bottles off the shelves." "'It was just a mess,' said owner Dayle Richards. 'Even if they didn't break, they were covered with other debris.'" "The largest earthquake (ever) recorded in New York (state), according to the USGS (U.S. Geologic Survey-- J.T.), was a 5.8 magnitude quake in 1944 that was centered in Massena, N.Y., about 3 miles (5 kilometers) from the Canadian border." "Won Young Kim, a seismologist with Columbia University's Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory, said a magnitude 3.5 quake occurred in the same area (of upstate New York) on the same day, April 20, two years ago (2002)." "'Northern New York is an active area, but most of the earthquakes that occur in the area are smaller,' said Frank Revetta, a professor of geology at State University of New York (SUNY) at Potsdam, N.Y. 'Normally you'd get one this big just every 100 years or so.'" "During the last two or three years, there haven't been many at all, and I wondered if that might mean anything. This might prove the strained (tectonic) energy had not been released, and now it had been." (Editor's Comment: Wait a minute! The energy was released exactly two years ago in a magnitude 3.5 quake. And now we have a second quake with an even higher rating on the Richter scale? What is going on deep within the earth in upstate New York?) "By several accounts, the shaking lasted about 30 seconds." "Amanda Slattery of Yorktown Heights, just north of New York City, said she was in bed when the temblor struck." "'I could hear the frame of the house shaking,' Slattery said, 'I lay there long enough to realize it was an earthquake...I was relieved when it stopped.'" "Tremors were also felt in Canada, as far east as Boston, Mass. and Portland, Maine, and as far south as Baltimore, Maryland." According to UFO Roundup correspondent Mary Lou Jones-Drown, she received an eyewitness report from Gwen, a resident of Oswego, N.Y. (population 17,954), a port town on Lake Ontario 40 miles (64 kilometers) northwest of Syracuse. Gwen reported, "It vibrated like a runaway freight train or something, and my bed shook violently." Raymond Jones, another resident of New York state, "said his books came right off the shelves." The quake was even felt in Rhode Island. My sister Carolyn reported, "It was around ten minutes to 7 in the morning. I was just lounging, not out of bed yet, and I could feel the room shaking. I had to ask myself if it was a gas leak or something. I know it was an earthquake. I was frozen--didn't dare move. Then I put the TV on Channel 10 and they said they thought we had an earthquake but weren't sure. I thought of your saying that Massachusetts was supposed to have a major earthquake and that it would drop into the ocean. Let's hope you're wrong." (Editor's Comment: I hope so, too, Ca. But Gordon Michael Scallion predicts that two-thirds of the Comedy Commonwealth are going to end up on the ocean floor. Everything east of the Connecticut River. Of course, the good news is, Agawam, West Springfield, Northampton, Whately, Wapping, Deerfield, Greenfield and Bernardston are all going to become beachfront property.) Curiously enough, the Plattsburgh, N.Y. area is the site of a rare geological phenomenon. In his book Weird America, author Jim Brandon writes, "Plattsburgh: Some beaches of Lake Champlain here have patches of 'noisy sands,' that, when dry, can be placed in a cloth bag, divided in half, and the two portions clapped together to produce sounds. Different people hear the noises in different ways, ranging from doglike barking to pure musical tones." This phenomenon of "singing sands" is found in other locations of the USA, as well, such as Kauai Island in Hawaii, Churchill County, Nevada, Manchester, Massachusetts and Pascagoula, Mississippi, which is also the site of the most famous UFO abduction case of October 1973. (See the Providence, R.I. Journal for April 21, 2002, "Earthquake rattles Northeast; tremors from Maine to Maryland," page 1. Also Weird America by Jim Brandon, E.P. Dutton Co., New York, N.Y. 1978, page 159. Many thanks to Mary Lou Jones-Drown for this newspaper article.) (Editor's Comment: Lake Champlain was known to the Ganegahaga- ono indigenous people (a.k.a. Mohawk Indians) as Caniaderi- Guarunte, which, to give the Ganegahaga a free translation, means Lake of the Sorcerers. Apparently, strange earth changes in the Plattsburgh/Ausable area are nothing new. But I wonder if last week's rare planetary alignment had anything to do with it.) DAMON KNIGHT, BIOGRAPHER OF CHARLES FORT, DIES IN EUGENE, OREGON "Damon Knight, a prolific science fiction writer and editor whose wry humor found its biggest audience in "To Serve Man," a short story that was adapted into an episode of The Twilight Zone, died Monday," April 15, 2002, "at a hospital in Eugene, Oregon, his family said." "He was 79 and lived in Eugene." "Mr. Knight was part of the first wave of literary- minded science fiction writers. Born in Baker, Oregon, he moved to New York City in the early 1940s and joined a group of budding writers called The Futurians. Their ranks included Isaac Asimov, Donald A. Wollheim and Frederick Pohl, who went on to become some of the most influential writers and editors in the field. Mr. Knight's memoir of the group, The Futurians, was published in 1977." In 1969, Damon Knight researched, wrote and published Charles Fort: Prophet of the Unexplained, the first detailed biography of Charles Hoy Fort, considered by many to be "the father of ufology." Reviewing the paranormal data listed in all four of Fort's books, which included all sorts of strange events documented between 1800 and 1930, Mr. Knight developed a statistical analysis and came to a startling discovery-- paranormal events on Earth peaked whenever the planet Mars made its closest approach to Earth. (Aso known to Forteans as "Knight's Law"-- J.T.) "In his writing, Mr. Knight played with the standard themes of science fiction: aliens, apocalyptic wars, robots and space. But his work stood out for its sharp wit." "His most famous story 'To Serve Man' was first published in 1950 and was faithfully adapted for The Twilight Zone in 1962 (with actor Lloyd Bochner in the lead--J.T.). It's a perfectly representative Damon Knight story, full of dark humor and wordplay. In it, a race of giant aliens appears on Earth and promises to end hunger and war. But soon the aliens' guidebook To Serve Man is decoded and found to be a cookbook. The aliens plan to serve humans as food." "The twist in the story's tail was ideal for The Twilight Zone and the episode's closing scene, in which the aliens' cookbook is breathlessly revealed, is one of early television's classic moments." "Damon Knight edited many science fiction anthologies and publications, including Orbit, the original anthology series that ran from 1966 to 1980." "Mr. Knight and his second wife, Kate Wilhelm, who is also a writer of science fiction and fantasy novels, taught for 27 years at the Clarion Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers Workshop, originally at Clarion State College in Pennsylvania and now at Michigan State University in East Lansing, Michigan." "In addition to Ms. Wilhelm and their son, Jonathan Knight of Eugene, Ore., he is survived by three children from his previous marriage--Valerie Knight of Eugene, Ore., Christopher Knight of Los Angeles, Cal., and Leslie Knight of Portland, Ore., two stepsons and four grandchildren." (See the New York Times for April 17, 2002, "Damon Knight, 79, Writer and Editor of Science Fiction, Dies." Many thanks to Loren Coleman and Patrick Huyghe for forwarding this obituary notice.) 2,200 MUMMIES DISCOVERED IN PURUCHUCO, PERU "An ancient Inca burial site has yielded the remains of some 2,200 mummies, scientists reported Wednesday," April 17, 2002. "Discovered beneath a shantytown outside Peru's capital, Lima, the remains offer archaeologists an unprecedented look at life and death in the Inca empire." (Editor's Comment: Puruchuco, located 8 kilometers (5 miles) east of Lima, is hardly a "shantytown." Actually, it's the site of a pre-Inca civilization. The ruined adobe castillo was the palace of the Curaca, the king of the Huanchos, an Aymara-speaking indigenous people. The Incas conquered the valley in the 1400s and renamed it Rimac, a name the Spaniards corrupted into Lima. Peruvian archaeologist Arturo Jimenez Borja restored the castillo of Puruchuco in 1953, and I visited both the palace and the adjacent museum in 1978. I recommend it to any tourist visiting Peru.) "The Incas ruled much of Peru during the 1400s, the last of a long line of Andean empires that ended with the arrival of Spanish conquistador (Francisco) Pizarro in 1533. The Inca domain extended from the Andes westward over the arid Peruvian coast. The 20-acre cemetery outside Lima may have held the remains of some 10,000 individuals, subjects and rulers alike." "'From a sociological standpoint, (the mummies) give us a complete sample of Inca society in this region at the time,' says lead archaeologist Guillermo Cock. In 2000, the Peruvian National Institute of Culture asked Cock and his team to examine the sanctuary, which was threatened by development and sewage from the town built above the gravesites. They expected to find perhaps 300 burials." "Instead they found many more, perhaps one-quarter packed individually into cotton-stuffed mummy 'bundles' containing the dessicated remains of two to seven people. When research funding dried up, assistance came from villagers and from National Geographic, which features the finds in its May (2002) issue and on a PBS special airing May 15 (2002)." "'Just as a single individual can tell you little about our society today, no single mummy is representative of an ancient culture,' says Inca expert Brian Bauer of the University of Illinois-Chicago. The size of the 'Puruchuco-Huaquerones' collection of mummies offers anthropologists an opportunity to ask sophisticated questions, such as the kinship between ruler and ruled, the type of work each performed and disease incidence." "The mummies dried naturally in the dry air of the Peruvian coast, Cock says. While there are no signs of embalming, practices such as packing corpses in cotton to dry them out show the mummification was intentional. One individual, dubbed 'the Cotton King,' was wrapped in 300 pounds of cotton along with the remains of a baby." "Decades of genetic and medical analysis await to uncover kinship and causes of death, Cock says." (See USA Today for April 18, 2002, "2,200 Inca mummies have many tales to tell," page 6D.) From the UFO Files... 1897: CONVERSATION WITH THE ALIENS The USA's first great UFO flap 105 years ago produced reports of many strange encounters with UFOs, particularly in Texas. But no case was stranger than that of John M. Barclay, which was reported in the Houston Post of April 26, 1897. Here is the newspaper article as it appeared in the Post. "Rockland (Texas): Mr. John M. Barclay, living near this place, reports that last night (April 25, 1897) about 11 o'clock, after having retired, he heard his dog barking furiously, together with a whining noise. He went to the door to ascertain the trouble and saw something, he says, that made his eyes bulge out and, but for the fact that he had been reading of an airship that was supposed to have been in or over Texas, he would have taken to the woods." "It was a peculiar shaped body, with an oblong shape, with wings and side attachments of various sizes and shapes. There were brilliant lights, which appeared much brighter than electric lights. When he first saw it, it seemed perfectly stationary about five yards (4.5 meters) from the ground. It circled a few times and gradually descended to the ground in a pasture adjacent to his house. He took his Winchester (rifle) and went down to investigate." "As soon as the ship, or whatever it might be, alighted, the lights went out. The night was bright enough for a man to be distinguished several yards, and when within about 30 yards (27 meters) of the ship, he was met by an ordinary mortal, who requested him to lay his gun aside as no harm was intended." "Whereupon the following conversation ensued:" "Mr. Barclay enquired, 'Who are you and what do you want?'" "Never mind about my name, call it Smith. I want some lubricating oil and a couple of cold chisels if you can get them, and some bluestone. I suppose the sawmill hard by has the two former articles and the (Western Union) telegraph operator has the bluestone. Here is a ten-dollar bill; take it and get us these articles and keep the change for your trouble.'" (Editor's Note: The occupants were being rather generous. In the Texas of 1897, ten dollars represented a week-and-a-half's wages for a working cowboy.) "Mr. Barclay said, 'What have you got down there? Let me go and see it.'" "He who wanted to be called Smith said, 'No, we cannot permit you to approach any nearer, but do as we request you and your kindness will be appreciated, and we will call you some future day and reciprocate your kindness by taking you on a trip.'" "Mr. Barclay went and procured the oil and cold chisels, but could not get the bluestone. They had no change and Mr. Barclay tendered him the ten-dollar bill, but same was refused. The man shook hands with him and thanked him cordially and asked that ne not follow him to the vessel." "As he left, Mr. Barclay called him and asked him where he was from and where he was going. He replied, 'From anywhere, but we will be in Greece day after tomorrow.'" "He got on board, when there was again the whirling noise, and the thing was gone, as Mr. Barclay expresses it, like a shot out of a gun. Mr. Barclay is perfectly reliable." (See the Houston, Tex. Post for April 26, 1897, page 2. Also the book Passport to Magonia by Jacques Vallee, Contemporary Books, Chicago, Illinois, 1993, pages 144 and 145.) That's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 Secrecy News -- 04/23/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:39:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:07:51 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/23/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 34 April 23, 2002 ** STATE SECRETS PRIVILEGE GETS A WORKOUT ** NEW BOOKS RECEIVED STATE SECRETS PRIVILEGE GETS A WORKOUT The Bush Administration has invoked the "state secrets privilege" repeatedly in recent months to justify dismissal of pending litigation against the government. The state secrets privilege is the nuclear bomb of legal tactics. When the government invokes it to withhold evidence or to block discovery, it can effectively terminate the case. And the privilege is absolute. "Secrets of state -- matters the revelation of which reasonably could be seen as a threat to the military or diplomatic interests of the nation -- are absolutely privileged from disclosure in the courts...," according to a 1982 appeals court ruling. "Once the court is satisfied that the information poses a reasonable danger to secrets of state, 'even the most compelling necessity cannot overcome the claim of privilege...'." (Halkin v. Helms, 690 F.2d 977). Because it is so powerful and can trample legitimate claims against the government, the state secrets privilege is "not to be lightly invoked," said the Supreme Court in the fifty year old case that first recognized its applicability. (United States v. Reynolds, 345 U.S. 1, 7 (1953)). Yet the privilege has been invoked twice in the past two months by the Bush Administration. In February, the Administration successfully argued that the lawsuit brought by former Energy Department official Notra Trulock alleging that he was defamed by former Los Alamos scientist Wen Ho Lee could not proceed without violating state secrets. "The Bush Justice Department... conjured up a bogus argument, backed by secret CIA affidavits submitted to the court ex parte, that trying this simple defamation case would itself breach national security," according to a February 12 press release from Judicial Watch, which represented Mr. Trulock. See: http://www.judicialwatch.org/1431.shtml The Trulock case was dismissed. Last week, the state secrets privilege was again invoked against a former CIA officer who sued the CIA in the southern district of New York alleging that he was the target of racial discrimination. Citing state secrets, the government moved for dismissal of the case or, alternatively, a change of venue to Virginia. "With this motion, the Director of Central Intelligence asserts the state secrets privilege and the DCI's statutory privileges to support the Government's claim that venue is proper only in the Eastern District of Virginia," according to the April 18 filing in Sterling v. Tenet, et al. "No further explanation can be made on the public record without risking disclosure of the Classified Information that the DCI is invoking the state secrets and statutory privileges to protect," the filing stated. (The use of the term "DCI's statutory privileges" is a CIA conceit referring to the statutory requirement that the DCI must protect intelligence sources and methods. Although this statute is often employed in a self-interested way, it is an obligation of law and not a "privilege" that can be waived.) See the Memorandum of Law in Support of Defendant's Motion to Dismiss the Complaint for Improper Venue or in the Alternative to Transfer Venue: http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/cia/sterlingcia041802dmol.pdf Invoking the state secrets privilege in this way to argue for a change of venue appears to be unprecedented. Speculatively, it could be inferred from the language of the government's pleading that the secret that CIA wishes to protect is the existence of a CIA office or facility in New York. In any case, the repeated use of the mighty state secrets privilege and its exploitation to support a mere motion for change of venue suggest that the injunction "not to lightly invoke" the privilege may have been forgotten or lost its force. NEW BOOKS RECEIVED Secrecy News welcomes review copies of new books on national security, information policy and intelligence. Recent arrivals include: "The Pueblo Incident: A Spy Ship and the Failure of American Foreign Policy," by Mitchell B. Lerner, University Press of Kansas (Lawrence, KS: 2002): http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/lerpue.html "The New Craft of Intelligence: Personal, Public, and Political; Citizen's Action Handbook for Fighting Terrorism, Genocide, Disease, Toxic Bombs, and Corruption," by Robert David Steele, OSS International Press (Oakton, VA: 2002): http://www.oss.net/OSS02/ "Chasing Spies: How the FBI Failed in Counterintelligence But Promoted the Politics of McCarthyism in the Cold War Years," by Athan Theoharis, Ivan R. Dee (Chicago: 2002). "Adventures in the Atomic Age: From Watts to Washington," by Glenn T. Seaborg with Eric Seaborg, Farrar, Straus and Giroux (New York: 2001). "Operation Fi@t Lux: La Nouvelle Guerre de la National Security Agency," par Thomas O'Neil et Jean de Kerily, Editions du Rocher (Paris: 2002): http://www.fiat-lux.info/ ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: unsubscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:09:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? - Tonnies >From: Tim Brigham <TBrigham2@cox.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:26:06 -0600 >Subject: Re: Roswell 'Hieroglyphs' Decoded? <snip> >>I propose that someone shows Dr. Marcel the >hydrogen graphics to >>see if he remembers any of the shapes besides the >one I mention >>in the post below. >Mac, all, >Hopefully, and hopefully obviously, with some false 'lures' >inserted in a sort of line-up to add some sort of control, lest >the results be tainted and an interesting chance to learn >something lost. Don't mean to belabor the obvious, and I'll >gladly give you the benefit of the doubt that this was implied >in your statement, but still worth stating. Absolutely. This is exactly what I had in mind, but thanks for saying it for me. Now if I can only find the hydrogen electron density graphics in question on the Web... Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 Letter-To-The-Editor 'Northern Virginia Journal' From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:38:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:17:27 -0400 Subject: Letter-To-The-Editor 'Northern Virginia Journal' To: Editor The Northern Virginia JOURNAL 6408 Edsall Road Alexandria, VA 22312-6475 From: Larry W. Bryant 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 Phone: 703-931-3341 Date: April 24, 2002 When late U. S. Secretary of State Cordell Hull treated a trusted relative to a surreptitious tour of a clandestine storage area in the bowels of the U. S. Capitol, little did that relative - the Rev. Dr. Turner Hamilton Holt - expect that the visit would become the stuff of legend 60 years later. What greeted Holt's eyes that day during the World War II era must've left an indelible impression, for he felt compelled to preserve it for posterity by sharing the account with one of his daughters, Lucila, who recently came forward with it via a letter to the Center for UFO Studies in Chicago (www.cufos.org). Her letter, now printed in the winter 2001-02 issue of the center's 'International UFO Reporter', reveals that "...Cordell swore him [Holt] to secrecy and took him to a sub-basement ... and showed him an amazing sight: (1) four large glass jars holding 4 creatures unknown to my father or Cordell [and], (2) a wrecked, round craft of some kind, nearby. You can be sure that such smoking-gun testimony about the federal government's continued coverup of UFO-E.T. reality won't inspire Virginia Congressman Moran or Senators Allen and Warner to start asking the right questions of the right people. No, like their fellow incumbents, they'll stick with the non-risky, ignorance-is-bliss status quo, thank you. But as of April 17, 2002, we have a remedy for their failure to act. On that date, Stephen Bassett of Gaithersburg, Md., announced his independent candidacy for the House of Representatives seat from that state's eighth district. His campaign - called "Disclosure 2003" (www.disclosure2003.net) - centers on empowering his prospective constituents to help shift the paradigm from government-sequestered UFO-E.T. truth to government-shared evidence of the extraterrestrial presence. As Bassett proceeds to gather the requisite 4,000 nomination signatures, some Journal readers-in-the-know have a chance to speed up the process - by sharing with me any corroborative evidence of the Hull-Holt revelation. Larry W. Bryant Alexandria
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: New Alien Images - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:48:16 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:20:43 -0400 Subject: Re: New Alien Images - Morris >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: New Alien Images >Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:42:35 -0600 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >>To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:59:06 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: New Alien Images >>I've added some new drawings, a few of which are alien/UFO- >>related, to my sketch gallery. Drop on by! >>http://mactonnies.com/doodles.html >>--Mac Tonnies >Wow, that was fun, Mac! I have visions of 500 years hence when >they are discovered in a dusty archive somewhere by hybrid Homo >Sapien sapiens. One says to the other, "Gosh, did our ancestors >really have hair and smoke plants?" <G> I shall be showing Alien Heiroglyphs at the Yorkshire UFOINFO Conference this Sunday in Yorkshire, UK. The heiroglyphs have never been shown before although several evil ex colleagues have tried to get their hands on them, without success. Both BUFOSC's Eric Morris and Tim Matthews are opening up BUFOSC's personal 'close encounter' cases this year. We know that they have never been published before and the content will amaze all. Especially people like Budd Hopkins et al who have been dying to get their hands on new material for a long time. These are cases from the North West of England and also North Wales where, historically speaking, close encounter cases were common during the early 1990's. I await a response from the audience. Eric Morris BUFOSC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 Top Secret UFO Documents From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:40:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:21:53 -0400 Subject: Top Secret UFO Documents TOP SECRET UFO DOCUMENTS Five Top Secret UFO documents are published in the May issue of UFO Magazine (UK). Three such documents were published in the April issue as part of a world exclusive article written by Nick Pope and myself. The five new documents, published for the first time are included in our follow up article. Some of the points covered include: 1. The extent to which the United States influenced the British Government's policy on UFOs, and reasons why the Americans may have withheld data from their closest ally. 2. MOD Director of Intelligence R.V.Jones' interest in the paranormal. 3. New information concerning the Flying Saucer Working Party 4. The extent to which personality clashes and policy disagreements within the field of scientific intelligence affected handling of the UFO phenomenon. A full presentation, which will include our ongoing research will be featured at the UFO Magazine September conference. Details for the magazine and conference are available at: www.ufomag.co.uk Best wishes Georgina Bruni
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Blather Competition - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:05:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:23:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Blather Competition - Velez >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:56:43 -0400 >Subject: Re: Blather Competition >Hello Errol and group, >I've taken a break for awhile but thought I'd put in a plug for >my 'once-again' mutated web site. Material's solid (some of your >own words) and the subject material is more incredible than >ever. It's a lot more "readable" now. New Domain name. >http://cohenufo.org/ Hi Jerry!!! Great googa-mooga man _where_ have you been? Talk about a long while between drinks. :) Good to see you back among the assembled brethern. My first order of business was to go and check out the new website. I see you've been a busy man. Great job, excellent info. I highly recommend a visit to all within earshot. If it's ok with you I'd like to send you a link banner for the International Petition that you can post on one (or all) of the webpages at your new site. I'll be contacting you privately. Heaps of catching up to do amigo. Welcome back to UpDates, welcome back to the whacky world of yoofology, but mostly, welcome back into my life. You're a good man Charlie Brown, I have missed you. We always need as many 'good people' as we can just to keep the damned boat upright and sailing in the right direction. Another set of strong hands on the ropes never hurts. I'm curious to find out what you've been up to all this time. I'll look forward to your posts. :) Warmest regards, (tu amigo, como siempre...) John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Secrecy News -- 04/23/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:39:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:27:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Secrecy News -- 04/23/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 34 April 23, 2002 ** STATE SECRETS PRIVILEGE GETS A WORKOUT ** NEW BOOKS RECEIVED STATE SECRETS PRIVILEGE GETS A WORKOUT The Bush Administration has invoked the "state secrets privilege" repeatedly in recent months to justify dismissal of pending litigation against the government. The state secrets privilege is the nuclear bomb of legal tactics. When the government invokes it to withhold evidence or to block discovery, it can effectively terminate the case. And the privilege is absolute. "Secrets of state -- matters the revelation of which reasonably could be seen as a threat to the military or diplomatic interests of the nation -- are absolutely privileged from disclosure in the courts...," according to a 1982 appeals court ruling. "Once the court is satisfied that the information poses a reasonable danger to secrets of state, 'even the most compelling necessity cannot overcome the claim of privilege...'." (Halkin v. Helms, 690 F.2d 977). Because it is so powerful and can trample legitimate claims against the government, the state secrets privilege is "not to be lightly invoked," said the Supreme Court in the fifty year old case that first recognized its applicability. (United States v. Reynolds, 345 U.S. 1, 7 (1953)). Yet the privilege has been invoked twice in the past two months by the Bush Administration. In February, the Administration successfully argued that the lawsuit brought by former Energy Department official Notra Trulock alleging that he was defamed by former Los Alamos scientist Wen Ho Lee could not proceed without violating state secrets. "The Bush Justice Department... conjured up a bogus argument, backed by secret CIA affidavits submitted to the court ex parte, that trying this simple defamation case would itself breach national security," according to a February 12 press release from Judicial Watch, which represented Mr. Trulock. See: http://www.judicialwatch.org/1431.shtml The Trulock case was dismissed. Last week, the state secrets privilege was again invoked against a former CIA officer who sued the CIA in the southern district of New York alleging that he was the target of racial discrimination. Citing state secrets, the government moved for dismissal of the case or, alternatively, a change of venue to Virginia. "With this motion, the Director of Central Intelligence asserts the state secrets privilege and the DCI's statutory privileges to support the Government's claim that venue is proper only in the Eastern District of Virginia," according to the April 18 filing in Sterling v. Tenet, et al. "No further explanation can be made on the public record without risking disclosure of the Classified Information that the DCI is invoking the state secrets and statutory privileges to protect," the filing stated. (The use of the term "DCI's statutory privileges" is a CIA conceit referring to the statutory requirement that the DCI must protect intelligence sources and methods. Although this statute is often employed in a self-interested way, it is an obligation of law and not a "privilege" that can be waived.) See the Memorandum of Law in Support of Defendant's Motion to Dismiss the Complaint for Improper Venue or in the Alternative to Transfer Venue: http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/cia/sterlingcia041802dmol.pdf Invoking the state secrets privilege in this way to argue for a change of venue appears to be unprecedented. Speculatively, it could be inferred from the language of the government's pleading that the secret that CIA wishes to protect is the existence of a CIA office or facility in New York. In any case, the repeated use of the mighty state secrets privilege and its exploitation to support a mere motion for change of venue suggest that the injunction "not to lightly invoke" the privilege may have been forgotten or lost its force. NEW BOOKS RECEIVED Secrecy News welcomes review copies of new books on national security, information policy and intelligence. Recent arrivals include: "The Pueblo Incident: A Spy Ship and the Failure of American Foreign Policy," by Mitchell B. Lerner, University Press of Kansas (Lawrence, KS: 2002): http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/lerpue.html "The New Craft of Intelligence: Personal, Public, and Political; Citizen's Action Handbook for Fighting Terrorism, Genocide, Disease, Toxic Bombs, and Corruption," by Robert David Steele, OSS International Press (Oakton, VA: 2002): http://www.oss.net/OSS02/ "Chasing Spies: How the FBI Failed in Counterintelligence But Promoted the Politics of McCarthyism in the Cold War Years," by Athan Theoharis, Ivan R. Dee (Chicago: 2002). "Adventures in the Atomic Age: From Watts to Washington," by Glenn T. Seaborg with Eric Seaborg, Farrar, Straus and Giroux (New York: 2001). "Operation Fi@t Lux: La Nouvelle Guerre de la National Security Agency," par Thomas O'Neil et Jean de Kerily, Editions du Rocher (Paris: 2002): http://www.fiat-lux.info/ ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 Article About Ramey Memo From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:31:52 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:45:13 -0400 Subject: Article About Ramey Memo I would like to call everyone's attention to a fascinating article 'A Message in a Bottle: Confounds in Deciphering the Ramey Memo from the Roswell UFO Case' by James Houran and Kevin D. Randle, in Journal of Scientific Exploration, 16:1, pp 45-66, 2002. They report several different attempts to decipher the memo and some rather unusual experiments to determine if initial instructions to persons agreeing to try to decipher the memo influenced how long they will work at it and what their results are if, given one of the sets of instructions such as 'This memo relates to a Crashed Saucer'; this memo relates to the secret testing of an atomic bomb; no information about this item is available. David Rudiak's fine work is acknowledged as are many other contributors. I have only two tiny quibbles 1. The statement is made that "Classified documents will always have markings on the top and bottom". I have seen a number of examples where that isn't true.However, the question of security markings is certainly germane 2. No mention is made of where those who might be interested in the deciphering challenge can obtain copies of my Ramey CDROM with about a dozen scans, some very high resolution, of the photo, though the CDROM is mentioned. Copies are available for $25.00 which includes first class postage by sending a check or money order to me at: POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958. The JSE is a refereed scientific journal Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:29:19 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:47:35 -0400 Subject: Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot Source: Evening Telegraph (This is Derbyshire): http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=64387&command=displayCo ntent&sourceNode=63914&contentPK=1544963 URL in one line without spaces. Stig *** LIGHT MYSTERY AT UFO HOTSPOT 09:30 - 24 April 2002 A new possible UFO alert in the Derbyshire hotspot of Bonsall Moor has been sounded. Radio enthusiast Ron Gaunt said he was talking on a long-wave radio at the top of Bonsall Moor when a bright blue light shone down on his Ford Focus. Mr Gaunt, a former radio operator in the Royal Engineers, said that sheep in a nearby field were startled by the eerie light. And he noticed interference on the radio waves as the light bathed the hilltop for nearly two minutes just before 3am on April 7. The 71-year-old, from Darley Dale, explained what was happening to radio friend Barbara Whyman, who was 40 miles away in Sheffield. "He asked if I had a fault on my radio equipment. I thought my plug must have worked loose, but it was fine," said Mrs Whyman. Mr Gaunt was so shaken that he decided to leave the moor a few minutes later, rather than transmit until dawn as he usually does. He said: "It was a very clear and frosty night and suddenly it was like broad daylight. It left me feeling rather dizzy." On returning to his home, Mr Gaunt tested his radio equipment only to find there was nothing wrong with it. He passed on details to Derbyshire police, who said their helicopter was not in the area at the time. Although the moor is crossed by power cables, East Midlands Electricity said no problems had been logged. Police said there were no other reports of blue lights on the moor, a regular scene of UFO hunts. ** Copyright
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 X-Files To Return To The Big Screen From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:55:34 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:50:13 -0400 Subject: X-Files To Return To The Big Screen Source: CHUD - Cinematic Happenings Under Development April 12 2002, http://www.chud.com/news/april02/apr12xfiles.php3 Stig *** X-FILES 2: UFO HARDER By Devin Faraci Contributing sources: Cinescape As the X-Files TV show stumbles to its series conclusion this May (and giving off the air of euthanasia more than a timely exit), head honcho Chris Carter is talking about a return to the big screen for whichever FBI agents comprise the cast once is all said and done. "It's definite [in so far] as everyone has expressed their desire to do it, including the studio," Carter told Cinescape. "I hope to write it over the summer, prep it over the fall and spring, and shoot it late spring and next summer. I think you would end up seeing it in 2004... I have rough ideas and I'm sort of deciding what to do." I have a mystery Mulder and Scully can sleuth the answer to: What the hell happened to the creative people on this show, which was once one of the most compusively watchable hours on TV? A look at the recently released DVDs of the first four seasons only illustrates how horrible the decline in quality has been in the last few years. Let's hope that the show goes out with a bang and that future movie installments bring back the glory days. ** This site is owned, operated, and co-edited by Nick Nunziata. Any advertising inquiries, media information, or questions answered by EMAIL. CHUD is a privately owned website that features a great deal of rumor and speculation, and must therefore be read as entertainment. All original content, both graphical and textual, is the intellectual property of CHUD.COM. CHUD.COM is in no way affiliated with the film C.H.U.D. All rights reserved 1997 - infinity.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:06:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:53:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:59:11 -0500 >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:22:27 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >Keel's interpretations are hardly "tongue in cheek," as I point >out in my Fortean Times article. That you would think they are >betrays a fundamental misunderstanding - not, I fear, your first >or only fundamental misunderstanding - of who Keel is and what >he's trying to communicate. During the period Keel was >researching and writing all of his major books, I was quite >close to him (he was actually writing me at times from West >Virginia), and we had a voluminous, ongoing correspondence. >Anyone who thinks his views are or were a conscious joke must be >- pardon me - joking. The editors of MUFOB - as Magonia was called in those days - were also in regular communication with John Keel. Our impression of his was rather different to Jerome Clark's. It was clear to us that Keel wrote to his audience, and if that audience wanted to believe everything it was told, Keel was ready to tell them almost anything. We published a number of Keel articles in the Bulletin, and found them full of evidence of a rather subversive sense of humour. Keel certainly enjoyed winding people up; and as regular readers of this List will have noticed, some ufologists take very little winding up, thus making them ideal targets for Keel's - perhaps slightly cruel - brand of humour. He was not even above winding-up our esteemed former MUFOB colleage Alan Sharp, whose attitude to ufology was even more sceptical than that of John Harney or myself, leading to several great slanging matches in the pages of MUFOB. One day I must get round to putting them onto the Magonia Online archives. But, as Alan himself would have said: "vive la sport!" >As for the canard that early American ufologists - excuse me, >"America's ETH ufologists" - edited cases to remove Keelian >elements: give me, and all of us, a break. This is, not to put >too fine a point on it, rubbish. And, not to put too fine a point on it, absolutely irrelevant... >In point of fact, much of early ufology consisted of individuals >who had a general interest in strange phenomena. Many were >Forteans, and some of them were also interested in the >paranormal. In those days nearly everybody read Fate magazine, >which covered all sorts of weird stuff. Actually, in my >observation, ufologists of the 1950s were more open to and >knowledgeable about other sorts of anomalies than UFOs than >their counterparts are today. They would have had no objection >in principle to incorporating the highly strange into an >interpretation of the UFO phenomenon. The problem was, in those >days they weren't encountering much of it, unless you count >early CE3s, which were freely reported, discussed, and debated. >CE3s were odd by definition, and some were odd even in their own >peculiar context. But this is not the point I was making. Early American ufologists, ETH or not, were very good at reporting all the strange and bizarre cases that came their way, and the example you quote in your very comprehensive encyclopaedias bear this out. It is what has happened since that matters. As you say above: "Actually, in my observation, ufologists of the 1950s were more open to and knowledgeable about other sorts of anomalies than UFOs than their counterparts are today. They would have had no objection in principle to incorporating the highly strange into an interpretation of the UFO phenomenon." That is precisely my argument, and you are in fact agreeing with me that the uncoventional parts of the UFO record have been edited out over the years. This has been done to make the narratives fit better into the ETH canon - particularly in the case of the abduction stories. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, Peter Rogerson has documented this process in his article "Notes Towards a Revisionist History of Abductions" on the Magonia website: http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/revis01.html (et. seq.) >Going back to American ufology in the 1950s: The number of UFO >publications, nearly all of them privately circulated to a small >readership, was considerable in those days. They represented a >true free market of ideas, from the severely cracked to the >soberly credible. Nothing that went on got past them. It was not >as if, in other words, a small, elite group held a Stalinist >grip on the flow of information. Which, if it wasn't for the Internet, could well be the case today. For the vast majority of 'lay-persons' outside the magic world of ufology, who rely on mass-market books for their information, pretty well is the case. >If something wild was going on, >_somebody_ wrote it down. (In books, that was, most notably, >Harold T. Wilkins and George Hunt Williamson.) There was no >shortage of mystery-mongers who would have leaped at anything >stranger than ordinary. When I went through many hundreds of >these periodicals (sometimes full runs of them) a few years ago, >I was actively looking for high-strangeness, Keelian sort of >stuff. There was very little of it there, and even that little >didn't amount to anything manifestly tangible.. But Jerry, it is not 1950s ufology in all its diverse glory that we are talking about, it is the editing which has happened since. One point: a number of reviwers have commented on the difference in content and tone between books written by abduction researchers about abduction cases, and the books written by abductees themselves. The latter invariably contain strange and illogical episodes which have been carefully ignored by the 'researchers'. >This whole >exchange started out of, readers will recall, a bogus assertion, >belatedly claimed to be a joke, by the Pelican (Note how Jerry has edited out of his reply my example of a similarly obscure joke perpetrated by him on me!) > (whose human >name, I'm sure, everybody on the List has figured out by now), ... and the answer is? >that "America's ETH ufologists" are in a dither about the >Mothman Prophecies film. Sad to say, the discussion has departed >even farther from any demonstrable reality since then. It has however told us a great deal more about Jerry Clark than it has about American ETH ufology or the Pelican >In part >this is because, John, of your apparent inability to tell when >somebody is joking and when he isn't. I think I can tell when Keel is joking - he was certainly telling a lot of jokes when our colleage Mark Pilkington interviewed him last year - it is a shame that Jerry can't work out when our feathered friend is joking also. >A final point, I suppose, needs mentioning: Nobody - well, >maybe hard-line CSICOPians - denies that odd, seemingly >inexplicable experiences happen (however one defines >"experiences" or "happen"). Honorable people disagree on their >interpretation and meaning. Hoaxes also occur, and we have to be >careful. As someone who's followed the UFO scene since the late >1950s, I remain unconvinced that high-strangeness (or, if you >will, Keelian) phenomena and hoaxes (an unsettling number of >which Keel has championed, unhumorously, as authentic >interactions with extradimensional entities) have much to tell >us, one way or the other, about whether the ETH is or is not >valid. Unless, of course, one is arguing, as you may be, that >the ETH stands or falls on the strength of the Woody Derenberger >story. I think hoaxes, jokes, inexplicable experiences and high-strangeness phenomena have a great deal to tell us about the UFO mystery. However those who promote the ETH (on both sides of the Atlantic, I might add) have to ignore a lot of such material, in order to make the remainder fit their pet theory. John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 CIA Cans Cookies From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:08:35 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:04:53 -0400 Subject: CIA Cans Cookies IT-Director.com: CIA Cans Cookies Source: IT-Director.com, 22nd March 2002, http://www.it-director.com/article.php?id=2711 Stig *** CIA cans cookies Friday 22nd March 2002 The CIA has recently stopped the use of cookies on one of its web sites. The CIA Electronic Reading Room site was found to be using persistent cookies to store the site visitor's IP address as well as a unique identifier. This violates the CIA's own code of conduct which states that cookies should not be used at Federal web sites. One look at the Electronic Reading Room site shows why cookies could have provided interesting, and possibly valuable, information. The site is basically a portal to CIA information including electronic access to information that has not been previously available. Clicking on the 'Frequently Requested Records' plunges you straight into X-Files territory with UFOs Fact or Fiction, Bay of Pigs, POW MIA, Guatemala, Human Rights in Latin America and other features on spies and the downing of the U2 spy plane. Given content of that nature the strings that you input to the search engine are going to be very revealing, hence the concern about the use of cookies. Apparently, the cookie was left by a contractor who was involved in the upgrade to the site that was completed at the end of January 2002. The plot thickens as, in true X- Files fashion, attempts to contact the company responsible result in a recorded message stating that the company is no longer in operation. The CIA were outed by Public Information Research, a Texas based non-profit organisation that reported the cookie problem to the CIA last week. The cookie in question was persistent and designed to stay on the visitor's computer until December 2010. In June 2000, a memo to all US Government agencies from the Director of the White House Office on Management and Budget advised that "presumption should be that cookies will not be used at Federal web sites" and that use of cookies is only to be considered when there is a "compelling need to gather data in the site" as well as "appropriate and publicly disclosed privacy safeguards for handling of information derived from cookies." So, at a time when state security is high priority, it seems very clumsy that the CIA has tripped over itself like this. If they want to gather intelligence on the general pubic then they'll have to think of a better way -- in the Internet age we're all far too aware of cookies so just look out for the men in trench coats following you down the road! Mock Turtle ** Copyright
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 Filer's Files #17-2002 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:14:51 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:13:53 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #17-2002 FILER'S FILES #17-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern April 25, 2002, Majorstar@AOL.COM. Webmaster: Chuck Warren http://www.filersfiles.com. TOP UFO SIGHTINGS: Pennsylvania star blinks off, North Carolina flying triangle, Georgia brilliant flash, Florida moving lights, Indiana witness photographs UFO, Wisconsin UFO follows witnesses, Colorado cylinder on video, Arizona row of lights, California sightings, Canada UFO landing, Cuba has numerous sightings, UK crop circle, Italy has 100 sightings, Hong Kong professor wants degrees in Ufology, Japan Research sees huge UFO in space, and Australia sightings. New Kennedy Space Center IMAX movie about the Space Station,. Astrobiology, the origin of life and the death of Darwinism. The Disclosure Project reports UFOs flew over US nuclear weapons facilities. CAPE CANAVERAL NEW IMAX SPACE STATION ALPHA TOUR KENNEDY SPACE CENTER -- Yesterday, my wife and I visited the new Space Station now being built. Tom Cruise narrated the new IMAX in 3-D show that makes you feel like you are in space and captures the everyday life of astronauts as they work, swim, eat, and sleep in microgravity. We enjoyed the new show that even has an alien in it. The alien is a plastic representation of a gray being floating inside the Space Station. I was surprised to see how large and developed the station is and the camaraderie between Russian and US astronauts. There were virtually no night shots and no anomalies in space, although they showed a clear shot of ice. The 3-D effect was interesting, and many shots brought the astronauts or part of the craft right up to you, so you felt you could reach out and touch it. One astronaut threw an orange right at the audience, that seemed to bounce off my shoulder. Frankly, I like the standard IMAX presentations best, since nothing seemed very clear to me. We also took the grand tour of Cape Kennedy, which is well worth seeing. The flights of Apollo to the moon were spectacular, but there was almost no photos or video of the moon. I touched a moon rock, talked to an astronaut, but I wonder why close ups of the moon were shown on 20 inch TV screens. That part was very disappointing, I wanted to see the moon on a big screen. What surprised me was the gigantic size of the NASA complex and buildings, but even more amazing off to the north you could view the Air Force facilities that are even larger. The size of the facilities makes me wonder what advanced systems are being developed? The Air Force recently announced they plan on building a maneuverable space plane. General Ed Eberhart, head of US Space Command says, "The military is looking into building a spacecraft that could drop bombs from space, fix orbiting satellites and give better pictures of the battlefield. The Pentagon has military satellites that provide navigation, communication, weather, reconnaissance and missile warning information, all considered key to US interests, but none of them has weapons. Back during the Eisenhower Administration the X-15 flew into lower space some fifty miles high. It seems reasonable to assume we have something flying in space now. I should also mention the B-52 Bomber first flew fifty years ago this month. JAPAN SPACEGUARD ASSOCIATION OBSERVES UFO IN STATIONARY ORBIT Asahi Newspaper reports, "Mr. Isobe, the director of the Japan Spaceguard Association, announced on April 4th, that the scientists of Bisei Spaceguard Center found a large unidentified object in stationary orbit 36,000 kilometers or 22,400 miles above the equator. The object was first observed on December 24, 2001, and is about 50 meters or 164 feet in diameter. Its trajectory is controlled, so it is a possible artifact. It is seen like a ninth-magnitude star, and may be a US intelligence satellite. The Spaceguard official said that the object is still unknown. There are also artificial space objects over Europe that are 10 meters in diameter. Thanks to Toshie Nakagawa Organization of UFO Research Japan http://www.spaceguard.or.jp/index_e.html. And http://www.our- j.com/ UFOs WERE SEEN OVER AIR FORCE NUCLEAR WEAPONS FACILITIES The Disclosure Project reports that several military and intelligence witnesses who were members of the Strategic Air Command (SAC) and other nuclear specialists have come forward with testimony proving that UFOs are real and appear to be concerned about our nuclear weapons. The Project has obtained the firsthand testimony of several such insiders whose documents and corroborating testimony proves that UFOs have monitored sensitive nuclear facilities since at least the 1950s. While the UFOs were not hostile, it was made clear that they were very concerned about human weapons of mass destruction. On one occasion, UFOs over a SAC Nuclear launch area took more than a dozen intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) off line. Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson: US Air Force,.ret. states,: "I was the top-secret control officer at Malmstom AFB for the 20th Air Division. I happened to see a message that came through my communications center. It said...that 'A UFO was seen near missile silos'...and it was hovering. It said that the crew going on duty and the crew coming off duty all saw the UFO just hovering in midair. It was a metallic circular object and from what I understand, the missiles were all shut down. What I mean by 'missiles going down' is that they went dead. And something turned those missiles off, so they couldn't be put back in a mode for launching." Captain Robert Salas: SAC Missile Launch Officer [1964-1971]: "The UFO incident happened on the morning of March 16, 1967, at Oscar Flight one of five launch control facilities assigned to the 490th Strategic Missile Squadron. I received a call from my topside security guard...and he said that he and some of the guards had been observing some strange lights flying around the site and the launch control facility. I said, you mean UFO? He said, well, he didn't know what they were but they were lights and were flying around. They were not airplanes; they were not helicopters, they weren't making any noise... [A little later] our missiles started shutting down one by one. By shutting down, I mean they went into a "no-go" condition meaning they could not be launched. These weapons were Minuteman One missiles and were of course nuclear-tipped warhead missiles...this incident was of extreme concern to SAC headquarters because they couldn't explain it." Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/Atomic Energy Commission, ret.): "After retiring from the Air Force I joined the Boeing company and was responsible for accounting for all of the nuclear fleet of Minuteman missiles. In this incident they actually photographed the UFO following the missile as it climbed into space and, shining a beam on it, neutralized the missile. I also learned of a number of incidents such as a couple of nuclear weapons sent into space were destroyed by the extraterrestrials. Our government sent a nuclear weapon for explosion on the moon's surface...[And] the ETs destroyed the weapon as it went toward the moon. [Apparently] the idea of any explosion in space by any Earth government was not acceptable to the extraterrestrials, and that has been demonstrated over and over." Professor Robert Jacobs: Lt. USAF 1369th Photo Squadron: "...we were testing ballistic missiles that were to deliver nuclear weapons on target...my duty [was] to supervise the instrumentation photography of every missile that went down in that western test range...and into the frame came something else. It flew into the frame and shot a beam of light at the warhead. Now, remember, all this stuff was flying at several thousand miles an hour, so this thing fires a beam of light at the warhead, hits it! The warhead tumbles out of space. The object, the points of light that we saw, the warhead and so forth, were traveling through subspace about sixty miles straight up, and they were going somewhere in the neighborhood of eleven to fourteen thousand miles an hour, when this thing caught up to them, flew in, flew around them, and flew back out." Mr. Harland Bentley: "I have been in a graduate program for nuclear engineering and have been working contracts since 1963: NASA, Department of Energy, and several other electronics firms in the DC area. I was at a facility in California..doing classified work which I can't say too much about ..Our astronauts were doing a loop around the moon in 1967 or 1968.I heard them say they had a bogey [term used to denote UFOs].it was another type of ship. There were portals that they could see into. They could see beings of some sort. They did not describe these beings, they just took photographs. They just said it was a saucer shaped craft. Then they said, 'There they go,' and they [the bogey] went out of sight almost immediately." The Disclosure Project, a nonprofit research and public interest group, has identified hundreds of military, intelligence, government and corporate witnesses. See: http://www.DisclosureProject.org. Thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net. Editors Notes: I have met or talked to many of the witnesses who have impressive UFO knowledge that they obtained while working for the government. Very few UFO investigators have the first hand knowledge these witnesses possess. ASTROBIOLOGY, THE ORIGIN OF LIFE AND THE DEATH OF DARWINISM Bill Hamilton writes that we should read Joseph Rhawn's book, "Astrobiology, the Origin of Life and the Death of Darwinism. His thesis in this new book should become the new paradigm, the prepackaged programmed DNA from cosmic ancestors. It explains why humanoids are common in the universe as well as other forms of life. Like Fred Hoyle, the father of modern panspermic theory, there is every indication that we live in a designer universe, an intelligent universe and that this is far more encompassing in its explanatory power than blind watchmaker, random event theories (or even quantum fluctuations). Thanks to Bill Hamilton and "karen lyster" zblue@ihug.co.nz http: ://ww ww.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/lloydcreation.html Editor's Note: I'm in touch with scientists involved in advanced DNA research who have informed us that human DNA has been altered, and created in the past. The story of creation as told us in Genesis is finally being understood and science and religion may be moving closer together. Lloyd Pye, develops the concept in his paper called, THE LITERAL CREATION OF MANKIND AT THE HANDS OF YOU-KNOW-WHAT : http://home.earthlink.net/~xplorerx2 PENNSYLVANIA STAR BLINKS OFF BEAVER FALLS -- The witness arrived home on April 1, 2002, after spending the Easter weekend with his parents and spotted a star like object 55 degrees above the horizon at 7:45 PM. The witness says, "Out of ALL those stars, I looked right at the one star that suddenly turned off! It was just like a light bulb going out, it was weird. There were other stars around this one, but it was the brightest star in that small cluster. What are the odds of that? There's a small airport nearby, but I heard NO engines. This light DIDN'T move and it seemed to be in space. Two seconds of observation isn't long enough to get detail. Peter Davenport suggest this could have been the flash of an Iridium satellite, or a tumbling rocket booster. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC Director, http://www.ufocenter.com NORTH CAROLINA FLYING TRIANGLE SIGHTING CORNELIUS --The witness reports, "I was laying in my hammock on April 2, 2002, and staring up at the sky at 8:55 PM, and I saw two triangles a light amber brown in color flying almost directly over head. They looked about the average size of an airplane but seemed to fly much lower. There was no sound and no lights on the objects. I knew it was nothing I have ever seen before. The sighting lasted a few seconds with several planes flying south and west in the same direction as the triangles about 5 to 10 seconds behind. Thanks to NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com. GEORGIA BRILLIANT FLASH MCDONOUGH - MUFONGA State Director Tom Sheets contacted the witness who had taken his wife to work on April 16, 2002. Around 7:15 AM, 20 miles SE of Atlanta, the witness noticed a very high thin white contrail which covered about 80 degrees in the clear sky and was being deployed to the east toward the rising sun. As he watched, a bright 'flare-up' began at the head of the contrail. This 'flare-up' was like a VERY bright star, about the size of a BB at arm's length, silver to reddish as it seemed to glow or burn and continued moving eastward. Duration was about 1-2 minutes, when it suddenly just disappeared. The contrail seemed to dissolve very quickly. No sound was heard. Nothing solid was observed until the 'flare-up' began. Some possible explanations are a substantially bright meteor burn or returning space junk. While it could have been an aircraft giving off a dramatic reflection of sunlight, the length of the actual 'flare-up' or glow might rule this out. The annual Lyrids meteor shower normally begins about 19 April and ends about 23 April. Similar reports have also been received in Georgia during the return of the space shuttle but most likely explanation is an extreme reflection off of a very high flying aircraft". Thanks to: Tom Sheets, SD MUFONGA, ISUR Board FLORIDA SWIFTLY MOVING LIGHTS JACKSONVILLE -- The witness was trying to locate Mars in order to find the comet Ikeya-Zhang on March 31, 2002, but a cluster of swiftly moving lights caught his attention. The lights numbered five or six and the intensity of their luminosity was no greater than the fainter visible stars that night. They moved north at a high unchanging rate of speed in a roughly straight line. They didn't strobe but there were too many and the configuration was unusual. The lights reorganized into a rough arc very quickly and the trailing lights increased speed slightly and took positions on the east side of the arc as the others spread out to the west. The pattern was very tight which lead me to discount military aircraft in formation. The lights remained in the arc formation and at roughly the same altitude. I would be content to dismiss this formation as satellites but for two factors: Their high rate of speed and the ability to reconfigure their positions simultaneously. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director of NUFORC INDIANA WITNESS PHOTOGRAPHS UFO DUNLAP - Brian Vike reports the witness was driving southwest on US 33, February 12, 2002, past the Concord Mall south of Elkhart Indiana at 7:00 PM. He states, "I spotted a greenish light out of my drivers side wing mirror. I saw no other cars and thought this was a train coming out of the Robert Young Rail Yards and heading south towards Goshen." It became apparent that this object was traveling much faster than a train and had crossed the tracks and was approaching the road. I pulled out my camera and snapped two pictures as it crossed over my explorer, headed towards the mall, banking and rose out of sight. These two pictures were taken as fast I as could work the button. My camera was a clever-cam digital camera and I was shooting out of the front window of a Ford Explorer. The object traveled south and passed over me from the left rear to the right front. It was low but climbing fast. I would estimate it's height when it passed over me as about 100 feet high. I heard no noise but had a sense of immense power moving at 400 mph. The object was dark, but seemed to be delta shaped 15 to 20 feet long. See website and photo frame 333. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.geocities.com/ufologia_canadiana/Palouse.html WISCONSIN UFO FOLLOWS WITNESSES HOLLISTER -- UFOWisconsin witness reports, "My parents came home about 8:15 PM and my Mom told me that my dad spotted something weird in the sky on April 13, 2002. I ran outside and saw this light moving across the sky from NE to SW. It was much larger than the stars that were out. It moved across the sky until it fizzled out just before the tree line. This lasted about 30 seconds to a minute Thanks to from: http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports/r2002_0412_sauk.html MERRICK --Jerry & Debbie C report that my wife and son (he's 12) were getting home late on April 12, 2002, around 8:30 PM from shopping. My other son (he is 9) and I were worried. They just pulled in the driveway and were yelling "look at that," nervously, "it was following us." They where scared. This was no plane or helicopter. It was bright yellow and just above the trees moving very slowly and hovering. It looked like a star but off color yellow. My son ran to get the camcorder but with the lighting in town we couldn't adjust it or see it in the view finder. We all agreed that it was a UFO. It vibrated, pulsed, with little side to side movements. Very weird, scary, We see a lot of weird lights around here. This is where professional equipment would capture awesome video or pictures. Thanks to John Hoppe, Direcctor@@ufowwisconsin.com http://wwww.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports/r2002_0408_fonddulac.html COLORADO VIDEO OF CYLINDER PROBABLY THE BEST EVER SALIDA -- Tim Edward's reports his six year old daughter Brandy saw the object and was persistent in telling Dad there was huge cigar shaped UFO darting, and dancing around just to the west and north of the corona of the sun. During the August 27, 1995, sighting the object was easily seen with the naked eye so Tim grabbed his video camera and started filming the cigar or tubular shaped object. The UFO had a very intense glimmering white light that surrounded the craft in a very light gray mist as viewed against the crystal blue sky. The craft appeared to be at least 2 to 3 times higher than a jet that passed underneath flying east moments before Tim started taping. Massive- Laboratories estimates the craft was a least 700 feet to a half- mile long. Tim personally felt the craft was close to a mile long. The craft made movements-up to 30 degrees and came to a complete stop almost instantaneously. The craft appeared to walk or step across the sky as in a fast frame advance or projection of itself to the next image. Tim looked through his binoculars and stated. "It had the appearance of being in its own space, it was like looking through fog or mist and looking into another world, very surreal. The craft had a double row of rectangular windows with sequential and revolving very pale red and green lights. The craft somewhat had the appearance of translucency," Twice during sighting duration an inner sphere surrounded by a Saturn like tubular ring was observed. The sighting took one hour and 15 minutes from 9:25 to 10:40 AM. There was no noise but there was the sensation of a dull electrical charge in the air that was extremely spiritual. We can speculate the craft was aware of our presence. There were over 30 people in Colorado who observed the craft that weekend. Tim concluded this technology way in the future with very advanced types of propulsion and travel- dimensional, time etc. My belief is that we are looking at the side of a wheel in a lot of the cigar UFO sightings. Virtually the same craft can be seen at the Monterey Mexico stills at http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html.. Click on the picture to the left entitled Edward's. Tim filmed the craft for 6 and half minutes and has put together eighty minutes of video coverage of numerous TV shows and newscasts of the event. The video also includes Triangular UFO footage over Salida on September 10, 2001, and a tour of ET's Landing Restaurant. Send $24.95 check or money order to Tim Edward's, 8425 Ct. Rd. 144, Salida, Colorado, 81201-edwards@my.amigo.net for your copy. ARIZONA DAYLIGHT FILMING OF UFO PHOENIX -- Victoria Liljenquist reports, "It was so exciting to have the UFO fly over my neighborhood during the day at 3:30 p.m. on March 18, 2002. Transmissions indicate that there will be more sightings for all of us to experience. As I was out feeding the birds, suddenly I looked up and saw the craft traveling over the top of the houses. It was about a block away from my house, at approximately 1500 feet. Traveling south from Camelback Road toward Indian School Road. I was able to film it for about 2 minutes. Just before it disappeared, an airplane from Sky Harbor which had just taken off and was gradually ascending, actually flew right past it. I am sure the pilot saw it. She says, "I also filmed a Cigar-Shaped Craft which was studied at Village Labs and proved identical to the Cigar-Shaped Craft of Tim Edward's. I believe Tim's appeared in July 1996, and mine in October 1996. The Brotherhood of Light (which I call them) will indicate to me where/what time, they shall arrive." Victoria Liljenquist also says, "She predicted UFOs over the Winter Olympic games and several witnesses reported seeing an UFO at that time." My film, documentation has been studied by experts, including Village Labs in Phoenix, she said. Victoria has appeared on National TV and International/National Radio shows: Thanks to Victoria Liljenquist www.victoriaslight.com PHOENIX -- Myself, staff, and guests were out on the patio of an upscale North Scottsdale Resort when we saw objects hovering in lower Southwest Phoenix, near Squaw Peak on March 20, 2002. These objects were very bright, and would flicker like a candle from very bright to going completely out at 7:35 PM. The objects would once again appear in another area, in a different pattern. First, there were four objects lined up and evenly spaced in a horizontal pattern. Later, three objects were in a triangle pattern. We have seen these lights for the past couple of weeks. There are at least two, but sometimes more. They seem amber in color, and once they light up, they do not move until they fade out and then they reappear. They are VERY bright in contrast to the air traffic. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC CALIFORNIA FLYING DIAMOND FARMERSVILLE -- The witnesses went outside at 6:45 PM, to stargaze when they observed a bright light traveling northeast on March 29, 2002. The light was about 30 degrees above the horizon and traveling very fast. The light faded in and out similar to an Iridium satellite, but much faster and not as high in elevation. Also, we have never seen an Iridium traveling in this direction. When the light faded, there were no marker lights visible. It was very dim when it faded. I had printed out a list of satellites from the Heavens Above website and looked on the list for satellites of a similar brightness, time and direction. The brightness was matched for ISS, but it was in the south. The next would have been the Shenzhou III, but we saw it several minutes later; the altitude was much higher (59 degrees) compared to the earlier light. The light appeared to be at an elevation similar to a jet, but did not make any sound. We are familiar with the local air traffic, satellites and meteors; this did not appear to be any of those. Weather was clear, temperature 70 degrees and no breeze. OAKLAND - On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at about 7:00 PM the witness was sitting on his balcony and the sun had already begun to set, and the sky was still blue with intervals of passing clouds. The witness says, "I was looking out towards the north east when my eye caught a silver object just sitting high up in the sky." I ran inside to grab my binoculars. I was looking at this object and my hands began shaking and my heart was pounding, unsure of just what I was actually looking at. I looked at this blurred kind of egg shaped object and I could see the sunlight bouncing off it. Just then a commercial aircraft passed through the foreground of my binocular lens, and I could tell the object was considerably higher and distant compared to the plane. I looked for about 2 minutes before a section of clouds rolled in obscuring my view and I never saw it again. There was no unconventional flying methods displayed. Over the past three years, I have seen hundreds of planes from my balcony and this was not at all recognizable as a plane. This object was literally suspended in one spot, and much higher in altitude than any of the planes I witness. Thanks to theloutz@hotmail.comI CANADA -- DID ET PHONE ALBERTA? Hutterite Colony -- The Calgary Suns reports George Hoofer returned to his home in Southeast Alberta with a strange tale of a funnel of fire in a farmer's field. The funnel lit up the night for an hour, then faded into sparkles. A month later, farmer Ken Masson found a three-meter-wide circle in his field, with four indentations inside. Word spread quickly that an alien spacecraft had landed. This week, a University of Lethbridge geologist refuted the UFO theory, but replaced it with an explanation nearly as interesting. Pano Karkanis said the crater in Masson's field near Etzikom, 250 km southeast of Calgary, was caused by a meteorite. Karkanis analyzed the soil in the crater and tested it for radioactivity. He found no signs of radioactive material that might suggest exposure to extraterrestrial technology, nor did he find anything else indicating a spacecraft had landed. He dismissed the indentations as marks made by rainfall, saying the meteorite probably buried itself a meter deep in Masson's field. But Karkanis' findings drew criticism. Masson himself didn't buy the rainwater explanation, pointing out the area had been dry as a bone, with farmers such as himself lamenting the absence of rainfall. Others have said a meteorite wouldn't produce the effect Hofer saw, and that it would have left residue in the crater. Also, the crater's perfectly circular shape is not likely the result of a meteorite impact. Thanks to: CNEWS Space Canoe Internet, http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSpace0106) June 28, 2001. COURTNEY/COMOX VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA - Investigator Brian Vike reports a lady has contacted him about on going events. This all started many years ago when this lady was a youngster and her Mother watched an object hovering over their field and found a large circle burnt into the crop. From that day on she claims to have seen UFOs and she now is 48 years old with a family of her own, and still has "contact." She has awakened with bruises and different kinds of markings on her body and her son who is now 28 years old, has the same type of markings. Many times they have taken their son to the doctor's only to come away with no answers for the condition his body is in, but it always seems to heel up. She has seen visitors that completely scare her and she keeps her blinds closed completely as night falls. No one knows about what has been taking place other than her family members. CUBA HAS NUMEROUS UFOs Mike Bird reports, "I've just returned from a week in Cuba. It was a vacation week with my wife, but on Thursday, I made the 3 hour bus ride into Havana, to meet with 5 Cuban UFO Researchers, the oldest of which was a 70 year old retired physics professor, who had his own sighting in 1954. The youngest maybe 30. They have never been in contact with a North American researchers. They gave me a 300 page book, entitled "Signos," and in Spanish about the rich history of UFO activity in Cuba. I watched a 45 minute video entitled "Ovni's in Cuba," by Octavio Cortazar. Thanks to Mike Bird. UNITED KINGDOM FIRST CROP FORMATION OF 2002 The first formation of the year has been reported at Soberton, Hampshire, England, found April 12. A simple 60 foot circle / ring in canola, with two small standing circles in the ring is a humble beginning to another season. http: ://cropcircleconnector.com/2002/soberton2002a/soberton2002a.html ITALIAN UFO NEWS-FLASH NEW "FLAP" OVER THE ALPS The Italian Center for UFO Studies #351 News-flash reports that at 10:20 PM on April 6, a luminous body reddish in color, followed by a green-bluish trail, was observed and in some cases photographed, for a few seconds by very many people in Northeast Italy, Czechoslovakia, Germany and the Netherlands. Pilots in flight also reported the presence of the strange luminous phenomenon. Later on the same night, there were reported two other similar albeit less sensational phenomena: over Belgium, Netherlands, and the United Kingdom. These sightings appear to from a bolide, a spectacular meteorite. Italy has 100 sightings in three months. There are 44 cases gathered for March (following the 16 for February and the 41 of January). Half of the month's reports resulted from the passage of a bolide on March 19th. There were 13 daytime sightings, 5 close encounters, 1 case involving humanoids, 2 photos and 2 films, and 5 cases involving effects on the physical surroundings. Thanks to CISU. Giorgio Abraini and Sebastiano Ridolfi,. Italian Center for UFO Studies http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/casi0201.htm AUSTRALIA LIGHTS AND DISCS WODONGA -- Two witnesses observed three round bright lights in formation on ''April 8, 2002, at 10:00 PM, that seemed to be very low. They seemed very smooth but there was no sound at all. At this point I called my husband, and a third light appeared. Then the first two appeared to slow so the third one could catch up so it seemed. They seemed to fly in formation. My husband went inside and got the video camera and proceeded to film as he turned south. One light went out, the second fell and the last one just faded out. A police spokesman said two bright discs were seen hovering over Clontarf - later moving on to Beachmere on March 30. Thanks to FarShores UFO News - www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/index.htm. HONG KONG PROFESSOR WANTS UFOLOGY DEGREE AWARDED Joseph Whan is manager of a laboratory at the Hong Kong City University. He checks the structural performance of buildings, but his real interest is in UFOs. He says, "If something flies over there is a good reason to study what they are doing." He and many members of his UFO Club regularly meet to study UFOs. They meet at the UFO Station cafe where there is a library and regular discussions. Professor Albert Sow (sp) desires to have a Ufology degree awarded at the university level for major knowledge of the UFO phenomena. He explained, "The Chinese culture and the East is more open to easily believe in something supernatural. He showed drawings and documents that claimed a Chinese emperor met a flying boat shaped UFO a thousand years ago. Thanks to Bill Hamilton. See the CNN video. http://premiumum.asia.cnn.com/pr/video/meta/tech/2002/04/16/kls.hk.ufo.ology.cnn .low.asx ROSWELL MUSEUM SPEAKER On May 11, 2002, George Filer will be speaking at the Roswell Museum about his experience in chasing UFOs while in the Air Force and about the crash at Fort Dix/McGuire AFB on January 18, 1978, the so called Roswell of the East. This little known case is very similar to the story at Roswell, NM. Don't miss this evening presentation. MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL for $35 per year by contacting MUFONHQ@aol.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post items from the files on their Web Sites provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the official MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. Caution, most of these are initial reports and require further investigation. Support the new Air Victory Museum UFO Display. Regards, George A. Filer in Cape Canaveral, Florida
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Blather Competition - McCoy From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:28:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:12:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Blather Competition - McCoy >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:05:21 -0400 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Subject: Re: Blather Competition >>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:56:43 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Blather Competition >>Hello Errol and group, >>I've taken a break for awhile but thought I'd put in a plug for >>my 'once-again' mutated web site. Material's solid (some of your >>own words) and the subject material is more incredible than >>ever. It's a lot more "readable" now. New Domain name. >>http://cohenufo.org/ <snip> >My first order of business was to go and check out the new >website. I see you've been a busy man. Great job, excellent >info. I highly recommend a visit to all within earshot. <snip> Hello, Jerry, John, All, I second John's endorsement - 100% - great site. GT McCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 England Reports First Crop Circle of 2002 From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:03:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:19:09 -0400 Subject: England Reports First Crop Circle of 2002 ------------------------------------------------------------ The Electric Warrior : Web Log April 25, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com ------------------------------------------------------------ ENGLAND REPORTS FIRST CROP CIRCLE OF 2002 UFO & Extraterrestrial Intelligence photo: Soberton, England http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/Soberton12Apr02.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - England's first crop circle of the 2002 season appeared in a field near the village of Soberton in Hampshire. Steve Alexander of the Crop Circle Connector reported the formation on April 12, describing a simple ring approximately 50 feet in diameter. Overhead views of circle are available online. Alexander caused a sensation last Summer when he reported two complicated patterns in the vicinity of a radio transmitter at Chilbolton. One of those crop glyphs resembled a human face, the other purportedly represented ET's response to an encoded SETI broadcast. While Alexander does believe that some formations are hoaxed every year, many are so complex that it seems impossible to create them overnight. Peter S=F8rensen, who took aerial photographs of the new glyph, holds a different point of view. S=F8rensen says he was present when some amazingly complex formations were constructed, and in his opinion the crop circles are probably all man-made. ------------------------------------------------------------ RELATED RESOURCES 24-Apr-02 Sorensen - The Circles http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/Sorensen/2002/wallops2002a.html She is a small but well formed ringed circle, sporting the double dot 'signature' that has been seen in Hampshire many times in the past few years. The Crop Circle Connector F.A.Q. http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/anasazi/faq98.html Q: "Is there any scientific evidence to prove that a genuine phenomenon exists?" A: In the early days, the scientific community was uninterested in the phenomenon, however a Biophysicist Dr. William Levengood, was already carrying out research on affected plants within formations in 1989. It wasn't until 1992 when Nancy Talbott, and John Burke, two interested Americans, injected financial support into Levengood's work. It is now called BLT Research Team. They have carried out some fascinating test on the plants, and have found some amazing results. 25-Aug-02 First Contact? The 2001 SETI Response Glyph http://www.electricwarrior.com/gallery/ewArtWorks000B.htm This formation, and another one that appeared at the same time - - which looks like a face -- are the subject of a growing datastream of controversy, as people from all over the world debate whether this glyph represents an extremely clever hoax, or our first contact with extraterrestrial intelligence. ------------------------------------------------------------ THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR April 25, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo ------------------------------------------------------------ The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. The content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 Secrecy News - 04/23/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:39:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:23:08 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News - 04/23/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 34 April 23, 2002 ** STATE SECRETS PRIVILEGE GETS A WORKOUT ** NEW BOOKS RECEIVED STATE SECRETS PRIVILEGE GETS A WORKOUT The Bush Administration has invoked the "state secrets privilege" repeatedly in recent months to justify dismissal of pending litigation against the government. The state secrets privilege is the nuclear bomb of legal tactics. When the government invokes it to withhold evidence or to block discovery, it can effectively terminate the case. And the privilege is absolute. "Secrets of state - matters the revelation of which reasonably could be seen as a threat to the military or diplomatic interests of the nation - are absolutely privileged from disclosure in the courts...," according to a 1982 appeals court ruling. "Once the court is satisfied that the information poses a reasonable danger to secrets of state, 'even the most compelling necessity cannot overcome the claim of privilege...'." (Halkin v. Helms, 690 F.2d 977). Because it is so powerful and can trample legitimate claims against the government, the state secrets privilege is "not to be lightly invoked," said the Supreme Court in the fifty year old case that first recognized its applicability. (United States v. Reynolds, 345 U.S. 1, 7 (1953)). Yet the privilege has been invoked twice in the past two months by the Bush Administration. In February, the Administration successfully argued that the lawsuit brought by former Energy Department official Notra Trulock alleging that he was defamed by former Los Alamos scientist Wen Ho Lee could not proceed without violating state secrets. "The Bush Justice Department... conjured up a bogus argument, backed by secret CIA affidavits submitted to the court ex parte, that trying this simple defamation case would itself breach national security," according to a February 12 press release from Judicial Watch, which represented Mr. Trulock. See: http://www.judicialwatch.org/1431.shtml The Trulock case was dismissed. Last week, the state secrets privilege was again invoked against a former CIA officer who sued the CIA in the southern district of New York alleging that he was the target of racial discrimination. Citing state secrets, the government moved for dismissal of the case or, alternatively, a change of venue to Virginia. "With this motion, the Director of Central Intelligence asserts the state secrets privilege and the DCI's statutory privileges to support the Government's claim that venue is proper only in the Eastern District of Virginia," according to the April 18 filing in Sterling v. Tenet, et al. "No further explanation can be made on the public record without risking disclosure of the Classified Information that the DCI is invoking the state secrets and statutory privileges to protect," the filing stated. (The use of the term "DCI's statutory privileges" is a CIA conceit referring to the statutory requirement that the DCI must protect intelligence sources and methods. Although this statute is often employed in a self-interested way, it is an obligation of law and not a "privilege" that can be waived.) See the Memorandum of Law in Support of Defendant's Motion to Dismiss the Complaint for Improper Venue or in the Alternative to Transfer Venue: http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/cia/sterlingcia041802dmol.pdf Invoking the state secrets privilege in this way to argue for a change of venue appears to be unprecedented. Speculatively, it could be inferred from the language of the government's pleading that the secret that CIA wishes to protect is the existence of a CIA office or facility in New York. In any case, the repeated use of the mighty state secrets privilege and its exploitation to support a mere motion for change of venue suggest that the injunction "not to lightly invoke" the privilege may have been forgotten or lost its force. NEW BOOKS RECEIVED Secrecy News welcomes review copies of new books on national security, information policy and intelligence. Recent arrivals include: "The Pueblo Incident: A Spy Ship and the Failure of American Foreign Policy," by Mitchell B. Lerner, University Press of Kansas (Lawrence, KS: 2002): http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/lerpue.html "The New Craft of Intelligence: Personal, Public, and Political; Citizen's Action Handbook for Fighting Terrorism, Genocide, Disease, Toxic Bombs, and Corruption," by Robert David Steele, OSS International Press (Oakton, VA: 2002): http://www.oss.net/OSS02/ "Chasing Spies: How the FBI Failed in Counterintelligence But Promoted the Politics of McCarthyism in the Cold War Years," by Athan Theoharis, Ivan R. Dee (Chicago: 2002). "Adventures in the Atomic Age: From Watts to Washington," by Glenn T. Seaborg with Eric Seaborg, Farrar, Straus and Giroux (New York: 2001). "Operation Fi@t Lux: La Nouvelle Guerre de la National Security Agency," par Thomas O'Neil et Jean de Kerily, Editions du Rocher (Paris: 2002): http://www.fiat-lux.info/ ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot - From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:27:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:26:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:29:19 +0200 >Subject: Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot <snip> >LIGHT MYSTERY AT UFO HOTSPOT >09:30 - 24 April 2002 >A new possible UFO alert in the Derbyshire hotspot of Bonsall >Moor has been sounded. <snip> There is the strong possibility that due to the adverse weather conditions of late (we have been warmer than the Algarve, I returned 10 days ago) that static electrivity from an electric pylon could have been the cause, otherwise tectonic activity in the ground. This ties in with the rise in temperature during March/April. Tim Matthews and I are considering sky watches there next month (after I upgrade my tan on the Costa Del Sol in early May for 2 weeks), due to not getting one in Albufeira.When I arrive home but please keep us Updated. Many thanks Eric Morris. PS Are you coming to the Yorkshire UFOINFO Conference this Sunday? BUFOSC are opening their Close Encounter files again, with various publications in the planning.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 Roswell Vs. The Critics From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:29:45 -0400 Subject: Roswell Vs. The Critics Last night I drove a long distance (105 miles) to MUFON Orange County to hear the presentation by Roswell researcher Don Schmitt. I also met some friends including Ron Regehr who now lives in Utah, Penny Harper, Dr. Bob Wood, Jan Hartzan (Asst State Dir), Ron Garner, and others. Here is what was presented by Don: Almost fifty-five years and four explanations have past and still the Roswell crash of 1947 remains one of the greatest mysteries of all time. Within recent years there has been a proliferation of anti-Roswell books that are not only debunking but resort to nothing less than pure character assassination. If the critics have won the day then why the overkill? Why do they see the need to continue the fight in light of their apparent victory? Or is it all intended to stall and delay for time as the remaining witnesses are quickly passing on? Is their greatest concern still that of losing the war? And which side possesses the truth? In the summer of 1947, an interplanetary craft of unknown origin crashed in the high desert region of southeastern New Mexico during a severe thunder-and-lightning storm near the small town of Corona. A local sheep rancher found its strange debris -- and something else -- while riding his ranch the following day. On the advice of friends and neighbors who had urged him to seek a monetary reward, he drove seventy-five miles to the town of Roswell to show pieces of the debris to civilian and military authorities, as well as local media there. The Roswell Daily Record, in a front-page, headline article a few days later, stated that a "flying saucer" had been "captured" by the Army Air Force near Roswell -- not Corona -- and, as a result, we have referred to a "Roswell Incident", instead of a "Corona Incident", ever since. The 509th Bomb Group based at Roswell Army Air Field was, in 1947, the only atomic strike force in existence in any country in the world at the time. Perhaps the elite military unit in our armed forces, it was to be the Air Force=92s first SAC [Strategic Air Command] base, and its members were handpicked for the task of delivering the atomic bomb to pre-selected targets in case of war. It was the 509th, in fact, that dropped the atomic bombs on Japan to end World War II. Whether by mistake or by intention, the Air Force first declared that they had recovered a "flying saucer", and that they were shipping it to "higher headquarters" for scrutiny. Within hours of that statement, however, the Air Force changed its tune and said that the 509th Command in Roswell and the local rancher were wrong -- that what they had found was nothing more than a rubber weather balloon and a tin-foil radar target. To enforce this new version of the story, the Air Force resorted to the time-honored practice of witness-tampering and intimidation: monetary rewards, new duty assignments and security oaths to silence military witnesses and exhortations of patriotism, "national security" and, if those failed, outright death threats to civilians, including their immediate family-members, who saw tings they were deemed not supposed to have seen. For the most part, this strategy worked, but not entirely [or we would not be writing about it here]. Since then, the Air Force has admitted that they lied back in 1947 with their weather balloon story. They now say that the debris was the remains of a rubber balloon and tin-foil radar target from a then Top Secret project - Project Mogul -- which was trying to detect Soviet nuclear detonations by means of high-altitude, balloon-borne, acoustic-sensors. [A Top Secret project -- yes, but the balloon and radar targets were still the same as before, if you follow that line of reasoning.] Further, to combat persistent stories of "little bodies" allegedly found along with the debris, the Air Force held a press conference in June of 1997 to declare that such stories stemmed from high altitude parachute tests -- using mannequins -- that the Air Force conducted during the late 1950=92s. [Mental "time compression" of disparate events by witnesses was said to be the culprit.] To counter the Air Force claims, which have been accepted at face value by the establishment media -- for example, the New York Times, there is a plethora of books on the market making the case that it was indeed a UFO that crashed in New Mexico in 1947. The problem is, however, that the various investigations by private researchers have been uneven in their research methods, their use of alleged documents and eyewitnesses and, as a result, their respective scenarios and conclusions differ in many respects. It is no wonder then, that the public at large remains confused about the case. Most believe that something happened back in 1947, but they are understandably not sure just what it was. Our mission, then, is to determine once and for all time -- and within the foreseeable future, what the true facts of the so- called "Roswell Incident" really are. We are not there yet, but we promise to spare no expense, to leave no stone unturned and to follow every lead until the truth is known and revealed to you. NOTE: according to veterans organizations, World War II veterans are expiring at the rate of 1,500 each day. Time is, therefore, of the essence. Don returns to Roswell to continue his investigation every month. I obtained his new coffee table scrap book on the Roswell research. There were some new things I learned. It is amazing that something new comes out of this old case, but it is really fascinating. 1) About 2-1/2 miles from the debris field, 2 alien bodies were found as if they were blown out of the craft after an explosion. These beings looked almost like minature humans. Eyewitness accounts show they had human-like eyes, ear shells, but no hair on their bodies. These were NOT Grays. More bodies (4?) were discovered near the crashed craft. Two were found alive! 2) General Roger Ramey had subsequent involvement with Project Bluebook and is shown in a press photo talking to General Samford (this photo is cropped at: http://www.isso.org/inbox/ubd/case/1952.htm and General Ramey, on left, has face cut out of picture) and the famous Captain Edward J. Ruppelt. Ramey was heard to remark that the most likely source of the UFOs was interplanetary (did not use term "extraterrestrial" in the early days and did not use term "UFO" in 1947) 3) There are witnesses that still won't talk. I discussed one who is still living in Orange County and am now wondering if we can't get a recorded statement from him. Once all the Roswell witnesses are gone, then it can all be swept under the rug and that process has begun. We cannot let this happen. Sincerely, Bill Hamilton Executive Director Skywatch International, Inc. websites: http://home.earthlink.net/~skywatcher22 http://home.earthlink.net/~skywatcher12 http://home.earthlink.net/~xplorerx http://home.earthlink.net/~xplorerx2 http://home.earthlink.net/~xplorerx3
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 A Plan for Political Action From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:33:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:33:20 -0400 Subject: A Plan for Political Action By Richard H. Hall In his chapter of the University of Kansas Press book UFOs and Abductions, edited by David Jacobs (2000), Don Donderi argues that the scientific establishment is not well equipped to deal with the UFO subject, nor is it the only method or procedure used in our society to establish truth. Other approaches include the methods used by the legal system and by the military intelligence community. Taking his insights as a point of departure, I suggest ways in which they could be translated into a promising new way of calling attention to the serious UFO data. Primarily, I suggest the organization of a National Public Fact- Finding Commission made up of prominent Americans [other countries could take parallel action] who would hear presentations of the data over a period of time, and ultimately issue a report making recommendations. I discuss how such a Commission might be organized, how it would operate, and what it might be able to accomplish. Also, I emphasize that a hypothetical Commission would not be an alternative to (a substitute for) a more thorough scientific study, but instead a way of helping to bring about the application of more and better science to UFOs. The non-response of the scientific establishment, the news media, and government agencies, as well as the continued lack of or drying up of financial support, leave us in a crisis situation. "We don't get no respect," nor do we receive anything approaching adequate funding for even beginning to deal with the complexities of "the UFO problem." Why should "we" (depends on the meaning of the word "we") when "we" either embrace or passively co-exist with kooks, con-men, and New Age mush-brains. Until we who stand for careful, scientific study of UFOs clearly differentiate ourselves from the unscientific, and sometimes even anti-scientific, elements it seems highly doubtful that we will ever get anywhere. They becloud all attempts at serious, factual discussion of the evidence. Ongoing good works. To put the proposal in context, I will briefly review some very worthwhile projects currently underway. The Fund for UFO Research and the UFO Research Coalition are engaged in what to me appears to be the most objective, scientific attempt to capture real-time data on UFO abduction incidents, and publication of various important reports. Bob Bigelow's National Institute for Discovery Science has been aggressively investigating UFO-related incidents, and in the process has utilized not only scientists, but also such people as retired police detectives and former members of the military intelligence community, in keeping with Don Donderi's insights. NARCAP, the pilot-sighting network, potentially is a very important proactive effort to gather real-time data. On another front altogether, the Sign Historical Group (along with some independent investigators) has been exhuming historical documents and records that shed new light on the early history of UFOs. A new initiative is underway to gather signatures for a petition to the United Nations asking for some simple steps to encourage member nations to be open and forthright about UFOs. I strongly endorse Eddie Bullard's proposal for a carefully derived "Case Book" of meticulously investigated cases. This approach was scheduled to be used by the University of Colorado UFO Project, but was never implemented. Once a Case Book is produced, among the many uses that it could be put to would be to actively seek dialogue with members of academic science departments during which the scientists would first be asked to explain the reasons for their (presumed) skepticism, and then exposed to the Case Book and asked to sit down across the table and discuss the Case Book. Similarly, meetings could be sought with editors of major daily newspapers, science editors, or Members of Congress, as appropriate or desirable. By this means the focus would remain where it belongs, on UFO cases rather than on opinion, speculation, exotic propulsion schemes, and the like. Fact-Finding Commission. In the context of all these ongoing efforts, and new proposals, I envision the formation of a nonpartisan National Public Fact-Finding Commission that would be only one prong of a multi-pronged attack on the problem. (Part of a "full-court press" to the basketball-literate amongst us.) What it could provide is a focal point for public discussion of UFOs as a scientific issue, news coverage because of the caliber of the people involved and possibly also of individual cases that, under the circumstances and presented in a new context, strike a chord that they haven't before, and presumably the Commission meetings would also stir controversy and attempted rebuttals...all fodder for the news media and likely to stir up dormant interest in the subject. Perhaps most important of all, such a Commission could provide a comfortable forum for important witnesses to speak out when they have not felt able to do so in the past for fear of ridicule or job loss. Elements of the Commission: (1) Commissioners (prominent Americans and public figures from various professions, including Government, the judiciary, legal profession, business, politics, science...). (2) Counselors (to organize and coordinate all presentations to the Commission, and to vet potential witnesses; candidates for Chief Counsel: Don Donderi; Mike Swords). (3) Presenters (well-informed and articulate persons who would make presentations of specific or collective evidence and data; e.g., Walter Webb, Jennie Zeidman). (4) Witnesses (to testify on personal knowledge of specific cases; e.g., Lt. Col.Coyne; Col. Halt; DIA intelligence specialist re: Iran case; Delbert Newhouse; Joachim P. Kuettner; David R. Saunders; Robert Salas, ICBM site missile officer). Just to illustrate the concept, the following represent the caliber of the people I envision serving as Commissioners (obviously some of these would be more likely real-life candidates than others): Madeleine Albright Howard Baker Jimmy Carter William S. Cohen Michael Collins Mario Cuomo Robert Cowan (former science editor, Christian Science Monitor) Walter Cronkite Adm. William J. Crowe Hugh Downs Gerald Ford Doris Goodwin George Mitchell Bill Moyers Story Musgrave Sam Nunn Jody Powell Sally Ride Patricia Schroeder George Schultz [Other suggestions are invited] Operational Procedures. The Commission would meet for something like one year to 18 months, enough time to allow for thorough presentations and discussion of data. Depending on funding available, it might meet every two months or every three months. It would be a quasi-judicial proceeding whereby the panel of Commissioners would listen to presentations of data and study exhibits, question the presenters, and call for any other witnesses they wish who might have a different perspective. Commissioners would not comment on a daily basis unless they wished to do so as individuals. The meetings would be open and public, with a press gallery and seating for interested members of the public. Any exhibits presented in the course of testimony would be available to the public unless the witness required anonymity or there were other overriding reasons for withholding the information. This is only a broad outline; many specific details would need to be worked out. Mission Statement. The stated mission of the Commission would be to hear testimony from concerned members of the public in regard to their experiences related to UFO sightings. A major goal would be to clarify the factual evidence as reported by credible witnesses, and to resolve controversy about the ways in which human institutions have dealt with the subject. Public education would be an important element of it, as would the setting of an example in regard to witnesses receiving a fair hearing without ridicule, and full public reporting of the relevant data. The Commission would not be asked to pass judgment on the "reality" or nature of UFOs. Their final product would be a report on findings and recommendations for public policy in regard to future official handling of UFO reports. What, if anything, should the Government and/or other institutions of society do to ensure adequate investigation, analysis, and full public release of UFO sightings reported by credible observers? What Would It Accomplish? If the Commissioners were generally perceived as being fair-minded and respected members of society without regard to political party lines, their very willingness to participate would be newsworthy. As the public proceedings progressed, there would be all sorts of news generated by the sessions. Just picture Jennie Zeidman presenting her findings on the 1973 helicopter-UFO encounter in Ohio, and Lt. Col. Coyle appearing as a witness. Never mind that the cases are "old," the mere fact that a panel of respected Americans was listening to the presentation would generate not only news, but new attention to the UFO subject as, after all, possibly being worthy of another look. The Case Book, NARCAP, NIDS, and other initiatives could be pressing forward on parallel tracks, and in some instances could participate in the work of the Commission. Your comments and suggestions are invited.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Procedural Matters - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:29:57 +0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:39:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Procedural Matters - Lehmberg >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Procedural Matters >Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:27:30 +0000 >Not presuming to tread on the territory of Errol's domain, but >might it not be helpful for us as participants to try to agree >on our own about some protocols? I have a set of toilet-paper tubes painted flat black on the inside I use to took into daytime sky. I see the damnedest things then, too, but I wouldn't think to use them exclusively in all the ways I use my eyes. I wonder that these wished for protocols might be toilet paper tubes, very useful (and focusing) sometimes, but many times the peripheral vision is more appreciated -- off center viewing of a small, strangely wandering recondite object at night, for instance... a bummer when the object is just outside your tube! I wonder that a wish for protocols is just another way to paint the limits of the box _you_ want to be in, to increase the level of _your_ comfort, or to eliminate what you too airily consider to be distraction. Easily, you could have it your way. Indeed, it was set up that way originally: A site for nothing but the ufological principals. So, what was the original reason for going "public" in the first place? Was it a wish to bring the masses into the information loop to increase the overall consciousness of the milieu? Was it because all chiefs and no Indians means a sterile ineffectual tribe that won't get the meaningful glyphs on the cave walls, and Mr. Flynn wanted to recruit useful bulk to get those glyphs written (impressive set of glyphs, btw)? Perhaps the reasons the List went inclusively expansive in the first place could be reviewed prior to the adoption of any so-called "protocols". >I have in mind a simple screening device by which we might >decide on legitimate posts. It's _never_ simple, screens are too easily made into shields, and a definition of the word "legitimate" is all over the board. >Acceptable posts would ..._as_ is the word "acceptable." >1. Offer new factual information or evidence or ideas; Well -- there's no need to change anything so far! [g]. >2. Comment on others' posts of information, evidence, or >ideas [without ad hominem remarks]; or Sounds good on paper until criticism of approaches and ideas is taken for "creative ways to provide [personal] insult." I guess "insult" is another word with a wide-bodied definition. >3. Convey news of potentially general interest. I've always been (generally) happy with the moderation of the List. If I get a little "excited" about some of the literary conduct _on_ it then I consider myself well served by an effort that is inclusive, vibrant and alive, and _not_ one that is cloistered, parochial, and dead. >What else is there that is defensible? _Anything_ with a little art and music, Mr. Hall! _Anything_ that suggests ways out of the box that we are all in. _Anything_ that would increase the aggregate consciousness regarding what has consumed _you_ lo these many years! I think that there is likely a LOT of "defensible" stuff that falls outside the purview of what either _one_ of us might accept. One of _those_ occurred just recently. >Anything that does not meet these criteria rightfully ought to >be refused. An ugly word in an open fielded debate. >Most conflict seems to arise when the posters start >getting too personal [ad hominem], insulting, and egotistical in >their remarks. _Have_ I insulted you, sir? How's _your_ ego? Am I getting too personal? Have I once again stepped over the line into the incomprehensible? >When that happens, Errol should (with our >blessings) flat out reject them. It seems to me that Mr. Flynn has had that well in hand, thus far. A reinvention of it now is ill advised, not necessary, and serves only short term goals. This list is better served by diversity, ardent criticism, and passionate debate. We might be amazed with regard to the surprising colors some of the principals finally show in a well parsed denouement unrestricted by specious concerns about "_bandwidth_... _time_ or _inclination to respond_", but abandoning the talking points at every opportunity to pursue cloistered self justifications and conduct questionable campaigns against efforts not meeting the approval of the aforementioned principals. I don't think Mr. Flynn (or this List) is best served by ominous calls for protocol. In any gene pool, the service of evolution comes from the diversity of the material in the pool. The inability to change is eventual death. I'd predict death for any List without a regular infusion of "Bobbi's" and "Serge's",however much they piss a principal off. They're a _good_ thing. They increase the blood flow, and they widen the thinking. Any principal offended by that might be dead _already_ (rage is often proportional to how correct the irritation is...) and I'm sure their steady shoulders are broad enough for little birds that fly up upon them occasionally to whisper in their sage old ears, advantaging themselves with the view... perhaps leaving a little deposit easily flicked off with the brush of a hand; it's a small price to pay for any quality attention at all, a chance at a new idea, or a new way to look at an old idea... "...still _they_ fly." Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 P-Shaped Object? From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:08:59 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:28:04 -0400 Subject: P-Shaped Object? Hi Errol and List, Looking for further information as to type. Just got a call about the following this morning. I'm wondering anyoneon the List has had, or come across reports of a P shaped ufo, standing upright as it moved across the sky. This report comes 21 years late [1982] and the event happened in Bridgewater, Nova Scotia. The gentleman that reported the sighting called long distance from Japan, early this morning, after recieiving a weekly newspaper interview about me and UFOs from his parents. Like many people, he had not been able to get the incident out of his mind and was pleased to discover that there were other sightings in that area during the time he lived there. He seemed unaware of the totality of the phenomenon. Additional details are forthcoming. I'm not the sharpest at 7:05 AM in the morning. Some argue that the time of day has nothing to do with it. Best, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:49:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:31:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:06:44 +0100 >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:59:11 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:22:27 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman John, >The editors of MUFOB - as Magonia was called in those days - >were also in regular communication with John Keel. Our >impression of his was rather different to Jerome Clark's. It was >clear to us that Keel wrote to his audience, and if that >audience wanted to believe everything it was told, Keel was >ready to tell them almost anything. We published a number of >Keel articles in the Bulletin, and found them full of evidence >of a rather subversive sense of humour. Keel has a sense of humor, as I noted in my Fortean Times article (March issue), but little of it is apparent in his writing. Nor is it apparent in the massive, and often paranoid and credulous, private correspondence he conducted with me and others in his prime, namely the mid-1960s to mid-1970s. I visited Keel personally at his Manhattan apartment in December 1967, in the midst of the events chronicled in The Mothman Prophecies. Your fancies notwithstanding, I met a man who was deeply frightened, fearing an imminet ultraterrestrial attack on New York City. He and several associates were busily trying on gas masks as we conversed. I heard no jokes. Many years later, I happened to run into one of the gas-mask people, a man who had traveled to Ohio and West Virginia with Keel in those fabled days. He still had no jokes in him. >Keel certainly enjoyed winding people up; and as regular readers >of this List will have noticed, some ufologists take very little >winding up, thus making them ideal targets for Keel's - perhaps >slightly cruel - brand of humour. Keel's sense of humor, about which I gather you know next to nothing, was in evidence in relaxed social occasions, usually dinners, where he was - may still be, for all I know - quite a raconteur. When Keel is joking, there is no question about it - his humor is broad, outrageous, unsubtle, not hard to recognize - just as there is no question about when he is being serious. He is deadly serious about his demonological views, as anyone who knows him better than you do would attest. I vividly recall an incident that happened some years ago in Mexico, where John and I spent close to a week in each other's company. At one point he declared that the Loch Ness monster is a demon (a notion championed by his supernaturalist soul-mate Ted Holiday). When I replied mildly that this struck me as unlikely, he began shouting and hurling insults and didn't stop for quite some time - at least half an hour, if memory serves (or maybe it only seemed that long; the dude certainly had a lot of bile to expend). The prominent American religious scholar Ted Peters, who witnessed all of this, remarked after Keel stormed out the door, "You have a very sick friend, Jerry." I guess he must have missed all the jokes. >>In point of fact, much of early ufology consisted of individuals >>who had a general interest in strange phenomena. Many were >>Forteans, and some of them were also interested in the >>paranormal. In those days nearly everybody read Fate magazine, >>which covered all sorts of weird stuff. Actually, in my >>observation, ufologists of the 1950s were more open to and >>knowledgeable about other sorts of anomalies than UFOs than >>their counterparts are today. They would have had no objection >>in principle to incorporating the highly strange into an >>interpretation of the UFO phenomenon. The problem was, in those >>days they weren't encountering much of it, unless you count >>early CE3s, which were freely reported, discussed, and debated. >>CE3s were odd by definition, and some were odd even in their own >>peculiar context. >But this is not the point I was making. Early American >ufologists, ETH or not, were very good at reporting all the >strange and bizarre cases that came their way, and the example >you quote in your very comprehensive encyclopaedias bear this >out. Well, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not joking. I'll also give you a credit for a nice attempt to keep afloat a sinking argument. >It is what has happened since that matters. As you say above: >"Actually, in my observation, ufologists of the 1950s were more >open to and knowledgeable about other sorts of anomalies than >UFOs than their counterparts are today. They would have had no >objection in principle to incorporating the highly strange into >an interpretation of the UFO phenomenon." >That is precisely my argument, and you are in fact agreeing with >me that the uncoventional parts of the UFO record have been >edited out over the years. This has been done to make the >narratives fit better into the ETH canon - particularly in the >case of the abduction stories. As I mentioned in an earlier >posting, Peter Rogerson has documented this process in his >article "Notes Towards a Revisionist History of Abductions" on >the Magonia website: Rogerson's piece amounts to an interesting argument for the idea that an abduction phenomenon may have been going on prior to the Hill case. This has, of course, precisely nothing to do with alleged editing-out of details of cases, which we know about because they were written about, not censored. If they had been taken out of the record, we wouldn't know they were there, would we? I suspect that you would argue that the logical consistency missing in your remarks is only the hobgoblin of "America's ETH ufologists." In the testimonies of a small number of early witnesses, we sometimes hear intimations of something that a modern investigator might view as evidence of missing time. Three years ago this month, I discussed them in a lecture to Budd Hopkins's group and then in a revised version published as a paper in The Anomalist. These details were noted, but nothing was made of them, since nobody in those days knew anything about such things. Nothing malicious was going on, just ignorance of one dimension of an emerging phenomenon. Aside from occasional hints of what would become known as the abduction phenomenon, I have found little evidence that such high-strangeness phenomena as MIB (which you mentioned in your previous posting) and the like existed, or at least were visible enough to come to ufologists' attention, prior to the 1960s. By 1964, even the conservative NICAP observed in puzzlement that UFO sightings appeared to be getting stranger. If even NICAP was openly remarking on the matter, the idea that the growingly anomalous nature of UFO experiences (or some of them, anyway) was being censored by ufologists so depraved as to hold views different from yours is frankly absurd. >>Going back to American ufology in the 1950s: The number of UFO >>publications, nearly all of them privately circulated to a small >>readership, was considerable in those days. They represented a >>true free market of ideas, from the severely cracked to the >>soberly credible. Nothing that went on got past them. It was not >>as if, in other words, a small, elite group held a Stalinist >>grip on the flow of information. >Which, if it wasn't for the Internet, could well be the case >today. For the vast majority of 'lay-persons' outside the magic >world of ufology, who rely on mass-market books for their >information, pretty well is the case. What is the "magic world of ufology?" >>If something wild was going on, >>_somebody_ wrote it down. (In books, that was, most notably, >>Harold T. Wilkins and George Hunt Williamson.) There was no >>shortage of mystery-mongers who would have leaped at anything >>stranger than ordinary. When I went through many hundreds of >>these periodicals (sometimes full runs of them) a few years ago, >>I was actively looking for high-strangeness, Keelian sort of >>stuff. There was very little of it there, and even that little >>didn't amount to anything manifestly tangible.. >But Jerry, it is not 1950s ufology in all its diverse glory that >we are talking about, it is the editing which has happened >since. What editing has happened since? Your repeated assertion of something does not constitute evidence for the assertion. >One point: a number of reviwers have commented on the difference >in content and tone between books written by abduction >researchers about abduction cases, and the books written by >abductees themselves. The latter invariably contain strange and >illogical episodes which have been carefully ignored by the >'researchers'. Nearly everybody who writes about abductions - or any other controversial issue, for that matter - has a theory. That includes abductees, PSH types, pelicanists (or do I repeat myself?), literalists, supernaturalists, and others. Everybody, wherever he or she comes from, wheether he or she is an ETH advocate or a PSH believer, deems certain elements crucial and others less so, and thus the former are more likely to be stressed than the latter. Precisely the same, of course, can be said of how mainstream journalists, social and physical scientists, and historians approach difficult, complex issues. Each makes judgments about what is important and what is not, what to stress and what to minimize or reject. Even we ordinary people, as we struggle to make sense of our own complicated lives, personal histories, and relationships, engage in the same process. David Jacobs, for one example of an American ufologist studying abduction testimony, is commendably above-board on the matter and, right or wrong, explains clearly why he thinks some data speak to the core phenomenon and others do not. The good news is that out of all of these uncensored writings, a whole picture emerges, one that is, thank God, not wholly dependent on one point of view, John Rimmer's or Budd Hopkins's or John Mack's or Philip J. Klass's or mine. Nobody has a monopoly on truth here, and at this stage nobody can state with unqualified certainty what's critical here and what isn't. The political philosopher Walter Lippmann once wrote that the concept of "free press" does not mean that you should expect to find everything you need to know in one newspaper. Getting back to the original subject, which you're seeking to change: The simple fact of the matter is that high strangeness of the sort Keel defined, and which he and his apologists have charged was deleted from the pre-Keel record by those Great Satanists "America's ETH ufologists," barely existed then. If it had been there, it would have been noted, covered, discussed, and debated. Ufology has never been about one voice, but many. Some voices may be more rational than others, but at least they are singing a variety of notes, and all are heard sooner or later. >>This whole >>exchange started out of, readers will recall, a bogus assertion, >>belatedly claimed to be a joke, by the Pelican >(Note how Jerry has edited out of his reply my example of a >similarly obscure joke perpetrated by him on me!) Let me repeat: The Pelican made a charge which is false. When I pointed that out, we learned that it was a "joke" and those who didn't recognize it as such - everybody except you and your winged friend - is accused (what else?) of lacking a sense of humor. It brings to mind Keel's response when confronted with Tom Monteleone's confession that he had concocted the contact story which Keel, to all available appearances, endorsed without reservation in print and elsewhere. Keel charged that his critics lacked basic reading skills; in fact, he claimed, he had exposed Monteleone's yarn as a hoax and anybody who read what he wrote could see that. Which was not, of course, true. The critics' reading skills were more acute, it turned out, than Keel's ability to mount an honest defense of his judgment. >>that "America's ETH ufologists" are in a dither about the >>Mothman Prophecies film. Sad to say, the discussion has departed >>even farther from any demonstrable reality since then. >It has however told us a great deal more about Jerry Clark than >it has about American ETH ufology or the Pelican As usual, your argument faltering, you're reduced to feeble insult. >>In part >>this is because, John, of your apparent inability to tell when >>somebody is joking and when he isn't. >I think I can tell when Keel is joking - he was certainly >telling a lot of jokes when our colleage Mark Pilkington >interviewed him last year - it is a shame that Jerry can't work >out when our feathered friend is joking also. Oh, dear. I've heard Keel's jokes. More of them than you have or, if that's imaginable, even Mark Pilkington has. By a long shot. Let me repeat: I know when he's joking, and I know when he isn't. I have yet to see evidence, however, that you do. >>A final point, I suppose, needs mentioning: Nobody - well, >>maybe hard-line CSICOPians - denies that odd, seemingly >>inexplicable experiences happen (however one defines >>"experiences" or "happen"). Honorable people disagree on their >>interpretation and meaning. Hoaxes also occur, and we have to be >>careful. As someone who's followed the UFO scene since the late >>1950s, I remain unconvinced that high-strangeness (or, if you >>will, Keelian) phenomena and hoaxes (an unsettling number of >>which Keel has championed, unhumorously, as authentic >>interactions with extradimensional entities) have much to tell >>us, one way or the other, about whether the ETH is or is not >>valid. Unless, of course, one is arguing, as you may be, that >>the ETH stands or falls on the strength of the Woody Derenberger >>story. >I think hoaxes, jokes, inexplicable experiences and high-strangeness >phenomena have a great deal to tell us about the UFO mystery. However >those who promote the ETH (on both sides of the Atlantic, I might add) >have to ignore a lot of such material, in order to make the remainder >fit their pet theory. I guess I was right. You do believe that the ETH - with which you are infinitely more obsessed than any North American ufologist I've met in my long career as a North American ufologist - stands or falls on the strength of the Woody Derenberger story. And here I thought _I_ was joking. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 UFOs Back Over China From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:17:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:34:45 -0400 Subject: UFOs Back Over China UFOs spotted hovering over Beijing Ananova News Service Thursday 25th April 2002 Residents in a Chinese city contacted local media to report UFOs hovering in the sky. The four UFOs surrounded by a bright yellow light were spotted flying over Beijing. They were reportedly flying at a height of 10 kilometres and moving in pairs. The Shanghai Star quotes the Beijing Times as saying they appeared on Monday evening for around an hour. However, the Beijing Planetarium says it has not been proved that UFOs exist. Lan Songzhu, engineer of Xinglong Observation Station of Beijing Astronomical Observatory, says there have been more than 10,000 recorded UFO sightings in the last 100 years. He says about 95% of these sightings have been shown to be related to astronomy, the atmosphere or the global magnetic field. End of article -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 25 'Are UFO Fans Really So Alien After All?' From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:16:03 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:56:29 -0400 Subject: 'Are UFO Fans Really So Alien After All?' Source: Eureka Springs Times-Echo (Arkansas), April 25, 2002, http://www.eurekaspringstimesecho.com/display/inn_news/Eureka4.txt Stig *** Eureka Springs Times-Echo, April 25, 2002, Column: "The Lighter Side of the Net": Are the UFO fans really so alien after all? by Elizabeth Bartlett ** Aliens never did make an appearance at the recent Ozark UFO Conference, but that's okay with me. They would have just ruined the party for the rest of us. Every year, I see media coverage on these conventions highlighting the weirdest folks the reporters and film crews can find. If they're dressed up like fictional characters, so much the better. I have nothing against dressing up like fictional characters; I have a total Klingon outfit, complete with bumpy head, in my closet. However, most of these folks who come to the conference just want to find out more about the unknown. Some claim to be abductees, while others have seen things in the sky they can't explain. One thing they all have in common is the complete lack of judgement about other people. You can come into these sessions, say that you believe in the Leather Goddesses of Phobos, and they will smile and ask you how those Phobosians are doing. They may not believe you, but they understand that people may not believe them, either. It's an amazing atmosphere of tolerance that I just don't find anywhere else, and that's why I keep going back. I have heard some remarkable stories over the years. The most important words a writer can utter are, "What if?" My imagination couldn't hold a candle to the theories and accounts I've collected, like prized baseball cards. But this year, I didn't hear any wild stories. I listened to everyday people with unusual occurences: lights in the sky, missing time and the lingering question of what it all means. I also saw couples with small children, going to sessions and talking about the paranormal as one big, open-minded family. The one refrain I hear over and over from people at the UFO conference is how wonderful it is to speak your mind and not worry about what everyone thinks of you. It's truly ironic, because every single person in today's society has either experienced something they can't explain, or hold a belief other folks see as bizarre. They just don't talk about it, and they make fun of the people who do. There are a fair number of locals who attend the conference every year. I can't help but think that what they hear has to be more thought-provoking than anything broadcast from a community meeting. I should give you some websites to look up, but surfing the web is just no substitute for actually talking to people. Still, here's the official conference site: www.ozarkufo.iwarp.com. The site has some interesting links to get you started. Check it out, and come by the conference next year. You might meet some cool people who will listen with straight faces to the weird stories about your uncle. ** Copyright 2002 Carroll County Newspapers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Beyond Publications Contributors From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:04:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:09:57 -0400 Subject: Beyond Publications Contributors Dear Colleagues, As of the end of May 2002 I will be the editor of Beyond Publications for Fortune Books based in Leeds, West Yorkshire. Beyond Publications will be a subscription only web site which will also provide an on-line monthly newsletter. The web-site and newsletter will cover a whole host of topics including : UFOs, cryptozoology,the paranormal, alternative medicine, crop circles, alternative history/archaeology, SETI, psychic phenomenon, astronomy, free/new energies, cover up's and conspiracies etc etc etc. In short we will cover any topic that we describe as ' frontier sciences'. The only subject we will not get involved with is any aspect of the occult. Added to the web-site and newsletter will be a bi-monthly 'interactive' magazine published on a CD-ROM. This will be available to both subscribers of the BEYOND web-site and those who have not subscribed. Again the CD-ROM publication will only be available upon subscription and will be mailed (snail mail) to all subscribers. Beyond Publications have already contacted a number of well known writers who will be contributing on a regular basis on a whole host of different topics. I would therefore like to ask you if you would be interested in contributing news items, articles or features for possible publication in the above mentioned Beyond Publications. Unfortunately at this moment in time we are unable to pay you a fee for your contributions, but instead we are able to offer you free advertising in the above. This could cover a new book you have out, a video, web site, lecture, conference, etc, etc, etc. I am very excited at the prospect of editing this new publication for Fortune Books and I sincerely hope that you will support this new venture with your contributions. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask and I look forward to hearing from you in due course. Separate Advertising Rates Are Available Upon Request. All the very best, Philip Mantle. Editor. Beyond Publications. philipmantle@email.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Secrecy News -- 04/25/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:28:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:12:50 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/25/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 35 April 25, 2002 ** ALL APOLOGIES ** PENTAGON PROPOSES NEW RULES ON INFO PROTECTION ** VICTOR WEISSKOPF, 93 ** SAKHAROV REMEMBERED ** FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ADVANCES IN MEXICO, SCOTLAND ALL APOLOGIES Through some quirk of our mailer software, the previous issue of Secrecy News was sent to some subscribers several times over the past two days. We apologize for the annoyance and appreciate your indulgence as we try to correct the problem. PENTAGON PROPOSES NEW RULES ON INFO PROTECTION The Department of Defense is developing new, post-September 11 regulations that would significantly increase controls on certain types of defense information, prompting concern about their potential adverse impact on academic researchers and other Pentagon contractors. A March 2002 draft directive entitled "Mandatory Procedures for Research and Technology Protection Within the DoD" defines two new categories of controlled information: "Critical Program Information (CPI)" and "Critical Research Technology (CRT)." These categories would encompass both classified and unclassified information, in a way that critics say would tend to erode the clear distinction between the two. The information in these categories would be subject to new controls that would prevent or inhibit publication and restrict access by foreign nationals. The draft directive, which was first reported by Ron Southwick in the Chronicle of Higher Education online on April 24, is long (112 pages), dense, complex and boring. Its full implications are hard to assess even after multiple readings, but it would clearly make life more difficult for contractors. "If approved in their present form, the directives can be expected to have a chilling effect on the defense research conducted by the nation's universities, industrial centers, and military laboratories," according to one critical Pentagon official interviewed by the Chronicle. A copy of the draft regulations, which are still under official consideration, may be found here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/04/dod5200_39r_dr.html VICTOR WEISSKOPF, 93 Victor Weisskopf, the nuclear physicist who was one of the last surviving titans of the Manhattan Project era, died last weekend. He was a leading figure in the atomic scientists movement, a founder of the Federation of American Scientists, and an ardent advocate of nuclear arms control. See: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/25/obituaries/25WEIS.html and http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44678-2002Apr24.html SAKHAROV REMEMBERED The distinguished Russian physicist and weapons designer Andrei Sakharov spent much of his adult life closely monitored by the KGB, particularly due to his outspoken criticism of the totalitarian state and his defense of dissidents and human rights activists. KGB surveillance was generally no laughing matter, but Sakharov sometimes handled it with ironic wit, writes Richard Lourie in his new biography "Sakharov" (Brandeis University Press, 2002, p. 219). "He once interrupted a conversation with another physicist to say that those eavesdropping wouldn't have been cleared to possess any knowledge about state atomic secrets and should be spared the discomfort." Yesterday a resolution was introduced in the U.S. Congress to grant posthumous American citizenship to Andrei Sakharov. "Fearless in the face of state repression, principled in his devotion to peace and disarmament, selfless in the pursuit of human rights for all, ... Dr. Andrei Sakharov is worthy of being posthumously granted honorary citizenship of the United States," said Rep. Christopher Smith, who introduced the resolution along with Rep. Barney Frank. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_cr/h042402.html Since Sakharov has now been praised by everyone from President Reagan to President Putin, it takes no great courage to heap further honors upon the physicist, who died in 1989. But if the new resolution leads more people to consider the ever pertinent lessons of Sakharov's life, it will only have done good. FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ADVANCES IN MEXICO, SCOTLAND The lower house of the Congress of Mexico passed that country's first freedom of information law yesterday, according to an Associated Press report. The Mexican Senate was expected to follow suit in the near future. Background information, analysis and documentation concerning "Freedom of Information in Mexico," prepared by Kate Doyle, are available on the web site of the National Security Archive here: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB68/ Coincidentally, the Scottish Parliament also passed a freedom of information law yesterday. Background on the Campaign for Freedom of Information in Scotland is available here: http://www.cfoi.org.uk/scotland.html ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 BC News: Alien Visitation Inspired New Religion From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:16:23 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:26:19 -0400 Subject: BC News: Alien Visitation Inspired New Religion Source: The Associated Press via ABC News, April 26, 2002, http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20020426_10.html Stig *** Religion in the News Fledgling Utah-Based Church Melds Wine-Making, Sexuality, Meditation The Associated Press ** S A L T L A K E C I T Y, April 26 =97 Claude Nowell was a 30- year-old graphics salesman and practicing Mormon who says he was just trying to relax after work when the hairless, blue, otherworldly beings first came to him. The 1975 visitation lasted about 10 minutes enough time to transport Nowell to a quiet place where an enormous pyramid stood on a green lawn under a blue sky filled with stars. When he came to, Nowell immediately suspected his druggie co- workers had spiked his late-afternoon doughnut. But then, Nowell claims, there were more visitations from the blue beings leading him to decide that he had been chosen to propagate Summum, a belief system incorporating winemaking, mummification and sexual ecstasy. His fledgling group of adherents now meet in a pyramid-shaped temple in Salt Lake City. Nowell, who in the early 1980s changed his name to Summum Bonum Amon Ra and goes by Corky Ra, said that since Summum's establishment in 1975, 250,000 people have received its teachings though the movement is little-known, even among those who study new religions. No official membership rolls are kept, he said, nor does the movement collect offerings or accept donations. Ra attended Brigham Young University and graduated from the University of Utah, where he majored in business and philosophy. He is a former Southern California aerobics instructor with tanned skin, clear green eyes and an 18-inch ponytail trailing down his back. Ra said he never wanted the belief system to be called a church (and there is no supreme being in his teachings). But when his group first applied for his nonprofit organization status, he said, the Internal Revenue Service designated it as a church. "We have always felt it to be a philosophy, but the government has always called it a religion," Ra said. The designation has allowed the group to hold a state permit to make and distribute sacramental wine. The pyramid temple, made of anodized copper over steel with sides 40 feet wide at the base, sits in a one-acre compound in an industrial zone just off an interstate in Salt Lake City. The temple is open to the public each Thursday night for meditation and philosophy instruction. Three mummified animals encased in bronze sit in the entryway. Upholstered sofas and chairs form a discussion circle directly beneath the pyramid's apex, 26 feet overhead. The sacramental wine is fermented in a gleaming stainless steel vat set behind the furniture. During the 77-day fermentation process, those who espouse Summum meditate for the wines so they will contain spiritual concepts. The wines are then aged from one to 15 years. State law forbids shipment of the wine, so Summum adherents in other states have become licensed liquor distributors to ship the product. Ra said at least 250,000 bottles have been given away to people who have undergone a screening process that involves reading about Summum and learning how to meditate. Adherents use the wines, also known as "liquid knowledge" and "nectar publications," to enhance seven types of meditation, including the one serving Summum's paramount belief: the power of sexual ecstasy. Summum's take is that copulation played a vital role in creation of the universe, and that all progression and evolution happens through sexual ecstasy. With Summum, sexuality is not merely an avenue to enjoyment. "It's there for meditation," Ra said. "But when you have that ecstasy, that's creation itself. We call it the state of becoming god. It's not something you would do at a brothel or only for procreation." The vital role of sex in Ra's beliefs is evident in decorations in the pyramid, including candleholders molded to look like sex organs. Ra's assistant, Ron Temu, a licensed funeral director and embalmer, also does mummifications, which Summum prefers over burial. Comparing their beliefs to ancient Egyptian creeds, Summum teaches that even after death there remains an ethereal bond between body and soul. Mummification costs about $8,000 for animals and starts at $63,000 for humans. None of the 147 people who prepaid have died yet, Ra said. Douglas Cowan, a professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City and an authority on new religious movements, said none of the major scholarly organizations that research such groups have a listing for Summum. However, he said the Utah group has similarities to other new movements, such as the Raelians, founded about 30 years ago by a French racecar driver who mixes Judeo-Christian teachings with UFO experiences. Ra also notes that Tantric yoga and portions of the Kama Sutra have teachings similar to Summum about sexuality. He estimates 5,000 people have moved to Utah to learn Summum, with many of them returning home to advance the group's teachings. "It's a philosophy that says you need to go out there, and just be in life," Ra said. "It's not like you have to go to church every Sunday." ** Copyright =A9 2002 ABCNEWS Internet Ventures.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Re: Article About Ramey Memo - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:34:56 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:31:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Article About Ramey Memo - Randle >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Article About Ramey Memo >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:31:52 -0300 >I would like to call everyone's attention to a fascinating >article 'A Message in a Bottle: Confounds in Deciphering the >Ramey Memo from the Roswell UFO Case' by James Houran and Kevin >D. Randle, in Journal of Scientific Exploration, 16:1, pp 45-66, >2002. Stan, List, All - Thanks, Stan, for saving me the trouble of mentioning this to the List. I had been going to point out that the Journal was now available but hadn't gotten around to it. >I have only two tiny quibbles And I will address but one. >1. The statement is made that "Classified documents will always >have markings on the top and bottom". I have seen a number of >examples where that isn't true.However, the question of security >markings is certainly germane While I should have learned long ago never to speak in absolutes, I will point out that in the declassification process, that documents that were originally classified, have had those markings removed (rather than just marked through) so that there would be no evidence on them that they had once been classified. Policy is that all documents that are classified would be properly marked with stamps at both the top and bottom. Does this mean that nothing ever slipped through? No. It means it is highly unlikely. So, I guess on this point both of us are right. The document, if related to Roswell should have been marked, but sometimes these things happen. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Full Story On UFOs Sighted In Beijing Sky From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:46:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:33:09 -0400 Subject: Full Story On UFOs Sighted In Beijing Sky Source: Beijing Times via Shanghai Star (weekly), April 25, 2002, http://chinadaily.chinadaily.com.cn/star/2002/0425/cn9-2.html Stig *** UFOs sighted in Beijing sky Shanghai Star. 2002-04-25 ** MONDAY between 7:00pm and 9:00pm, many Beijing residents were startled to spot four spiraling and sparkling unidentified flying objects (UFOs) in the evening sky near Asian Games Village, Wa Li and Qing He. Over 10 readers called local media about the strange appearance, Beijing Times reported. At about 8:00pm, four sparkling UFOs appeared in the southwest sky, but no strange noises accompanied them, according to observations of one reporter. These unknown UFOs moved across a wide range and were surrounded with a kind of light yellow brightness. According to a reporter's estimates, they were flying at about 10 kilometres high. For most of the time the objects were visible, they moved in two groups of two. At about 9:00pm, the UFOs disappeared under gradual cloud cover. The UFOs attracted many people, with most saying they had never seen such strange things. Though there are piles of reports about unknown flying objects from home and abroad, nothing has yet been proven, according to the deputy director of Beijing Planetarium surnamed Zhang. There has never been an official conclusion providing a scientific explanation for UFOs, according to Zhang. Over the last hundred years, there have been more than 10,000 records of UFO sightings, according to Lan Songzhu, engineer of Xinglong Observation Station of Beijing Astronomical Observatory. About 95 per cent of these sightings have been shown to be phenomena related to astronomy, atmospheric or the globe magnetic field. There is still no proof of the existence of extraterrestrial life, noted Lan. Lan said there UFOs come in four types. One is the appearance of satellites, dust storms, meteor rains or sparkling clouds. The second kind of UFO can be broken piece of a flying object. The third can be big throngs of locust or butterflies. The last can be planes. (Star News) ** Copyright by Shanghai Star.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Barbara Schutte Abduction? From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:08:36 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:34:35 -0400 Subject: Barbara Schutte Abduction? Under the heading 'Repeated Abductions', Thomas Bullard included in his 1987 study the case (#183) of Barbara Schutte. His reference is just a newsclipping dated November 23, 1982. Can anybody tell me more about this case or where to locate additional data? Luis R. Gonz=E1lez Manso
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Preserving Historical UFO Data From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:01:42 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:38:07 -0400 Subject: Preserving Historical UFO Data Lately I have read several items which are somehow related: 1) An article by Martin Kottmeyer in The REALL News, 10, #3, March 2002, pp. 1, 3-5, 7 about alien's procedures of exo-semination. You may agree or not with him, but the point I wish to bring to your attention is that John Fuller did not reveal all the details of the Hill's regressions in his book. Many will already know that in the 80's Fuller revealed that a line in the book that mentioned a cup being placed over the groin had been a veiled reference to the taking of sperm. What I did _not_ know was that Barney was also subjected to an anal probe! This made me wonder how many other details may be still laying unrevealed in those tapes. 2) The magnificent work by Wendy Connors et all in recoverng Pascagoula tapes. 3) The last issue of Barry Greenwood's UFO Historical Review, really a long editorial about the advantages and risks of electronic data storage. Somebody should try to locate the Hill's tapes, rescue and preserve them and also (ideally) prepare a _complete_ transcription. Any volunteer? Luis R. Gonz=E1lez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Re: Blather Competition - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:01:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:31:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Blather Competition - Maccabee >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:28:58 -0700 >Subject: Re: Blather Competition >>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:05:21 -0400 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Subject: Re: Blather Competition >>>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:56:43 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Blather Competition >I second John's endorsement - 100% - great site. I'll third it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Close Encounters Of The Royal Kind From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:16:09 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:34:03 -0400 Subject: Close Encounters Of The Royal Kind Source: The Wrap', Guardian Unlimited's round-up of the day's papers. April 25, 2002, The Guardian, UK http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4401117,00.html Stig *** <snip> CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE ROYAL KIND You knew he was a man with his own ideas - but the Daily Mail retouches our impression of the Duke of Edinburgh, today with a double page spread on the 'Buckingham Palace X-Files'. There was a sighting of a UFO over the home of Lord Louis Mountbatten in 1955 by a bricklayer, the Mail reports. Such excitement sparked in Prince Philip an other worldly interest, and, the newspaper claims, he "has every issue of the magazine Flying Saucer Review sent to him at Buckingham Palace - and once appointed an equerry as his personal UFO investigator. <snip> Guardian Unlimited =A9 Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Re: Alien Visitation Inspired New Religion - From: Jean Meiners <legalco@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:09:26 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:42:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Visitation Inspired New Religion - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:16:23 +0200 >Subject: ABC News: Alien Visitation Inspired New Religion >Source: The Associated Press via ABC News, April 26, 2002, >http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20020426_10.html >Stig >*** >Religion in the News >Fledgling Utah-Based Church Melds Wine-Making, Sexuality, Meditation >The Associated Press Dear Gentle People of this List: I am Mormon. I live in Salt Lake City... rather West Valley City (incorporated part of SLC). I used to live approximately 8 blocks from this "Temple" that is spoken of in the item. Believe me, I found it quite by accident because the freeway was clogged and the road runs along side of it. It sits next to a steel factory with many windows out. It does have a pyramid on its premises... all covered in shingles. As far as anyone attending, I have been there during the day (on that street I mean), evening and at night, and I have never seen any cars parked - anywhere. This gentleman has been on our local TV about mummifcation processes, no humans yet. So... to let you know this place is where even the devil would fear to tread too late at night... no street lights, etc. But, I have to be careful too... I am Morning and Joseph Smith, bless his heart, saw something too! Jean M.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - White From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:14:59 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:02:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - White >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:01:42 +0200 >Subject: Preserving Historical UFO Data <snip> >Somebody should try to locate the Hill's tapes, rescue and >preserve them and also (ideally) prepare a _complete_ >transcription. Any volunteer? Were those tapes in possession of John Fuller when he died about 15 years ago? I believe I can contact his son. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Canadians From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:25:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:25:42 -0400 Subject: Canadians Don Ledger posted the following to the Canadian UFO List, earlier today. With his permission I post it here ebk _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> To: canufo@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:51:11 -0300 Subject: [canufo] Canadians Hello Everyone, The following was written by a reporter for the Daily Telegraph in London. It has nothing to do with UFOs [my apologies for that] but rather recognition - little of which Canada sees. It comes on the heels of the emotional outpouring of grief for the 4 Canadian soldiers accidentally killed in Afghanistan - two of which came from my Province of Nova Scotia. The piece touched me and I'm grateful for it. I hope I dodn't offend anyones sensibilities with this. Best, Don Ledger *********** Salute to a brave and modest nation As our country honours the last of its four dead soldiers, we reprint a remarkable tribute to Canada's record of quiet valour in wartime that appeared in the Telegraph, one of Britain's largest circulation newspapers. - - - LONDON - Until the deaths last week of four Canadian soldiers accidentally killed by a U.S. warplane in Afghanistan, probably almost no one outside their home country had been aware that Canadian troops were deployed in the region. And as always, Canada will now bury its dead, just as the rest of the world as always will forget its sacrifice, just as it always forgets nearly everything Canada ever does. It seems that Canada's historic mission is to come to the selfless aid both of its friends and of complete strangers, and then, once the crisis is over,to be well and truly ignored. Canada is the perpetual wallflower that stands on the edge of the hall, waiting for someone to come and ask her for a dance. A fire breaks out, she risks life and limb to rescue her fellow dance-goers, and suffers serious injuries. But when the hall is repaired and the dancing resumes, there is Canada, the wallflower still, while those she once helped glamorously cavort across the floor, blithely neglecting her yet again. That is the price Canada pays for sharing the North American continent with the United States, and for being a selfless friend of Britain in two global conflicts. For much of the 20th century, Canada was torn in two different directions: It seemed to be a part of the old world, yet had an address in the new one, and that divided identity ensured that it never fully got the gratitude it deserved. Yet its purely voluntary contribution to the cause of freedom in two world wars was perhaps the greatest of any democracy. Almost 10% of Canada's entire population of seven million people served in the armed forces during the First World War, and nearly 60,000 died. The great Allied victories of 1918 were spearheaded by Canadian troops, perhaps the most capable soldiers in the entire British order of battle. Canada was repaid for its enormous sacrifice by downright neglect, its unique contribution to victory being absorbed into the popular memory as somehow or other the work of the "British." The Second World War provided a re-run. The Canadian navy began the war with a half dozen vessels, and ended up policing nearly half of the Atlantic against U-boat attack. More than 120 Canadian warships participated in the Normandy landings, during which 15,000 Canadian soldiers went ashore on D-Day alone. Canada finished the war with the third-largest navy and the fourth largest air force in the world. The world thanked Canada with the same sublime indifference as it had the previous time. Canadian participation in the war was acknowledged in film only if it was necessary to give an American actor a part in a campaign in which the United States had clearly not participated - a touching scrupulousness which, of course, Hollywood has since abandoned, as it has any notion of a separate Canadian identity. So it is a general rule that actors and filmmakers arriving in Hollywood keep their nationality - unless, that is, they are Canadian. Thus Mary Pickford, Walter Huston, Donald Sutherland, Michael J. Fox, William Shatner Norman Jewison, David Cronenberg and Dan Aykroyd have in the popular perception become American, and Christopher Plummer, British. It is as if,in the very act of becoming famous, a Canadian ceases to be Canadian, unless she is Margaret Atwood, who is as unshakably Canadian as a moose, or Celine Dion, for whom Canada has proved quite unable to find any takers. Moreover, Canada is every bit as querulously alert to the achievements of its sons and daughters as the rest of the world is completely unaware of them. The Canadians proudly say of themselves - and are unheard by anyone else - that 1% of the world's population has provided 10% of the world's peacekeeping forces. Canadian soldiers in the past half century have been the greatest peacekeepers on Earth - in 39 missions on UN mandates,and six on non-UN peacekeeping duties, from Vietnam to East Timor, from Sinai to Bosnia. Yet the only foreign engagement that has entered the popular non Canadian imagination was the sorry affair in Somalia, in which out-of control paratroopers murdered two Somali infiltrators. Their regiment was then disbanded in disgrace - a uniquely Canadian act of self-abasement for which, naturally, the Canadians received no international credit. So who today in the United States knows about the stoic and selfless friendship its northern neighbour has given it in Afghanistan? Rather like Cyrano de Bergerac, Canada repeatedly does honourable things for honourable motives, but instead of being thanked for it, it remains something of a figure of fun. It is the Canadian way, for which Canadians should be proud, yet such honour comes at a high cost. This week, four more grieving Canadian families knew that cost all too tragically well. Copyright =A9 2002 National Post Online
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Mutilation In Huddersfield? From: Alan Clark <alan@eggless.com> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:41:36 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:37:24 -0400 Subject: Mutilation In Huddersfield? Source: The Huddersfield Daily Examiner, 25th April 2002. http://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/page.cfm?objectid=1 1819402&method=full&siteid=50060 The lack of blood and 'clean' eating sound familiar. Hi, I'm a new member of the List, in Radlett, near London, UK. Best Wishes Alan Clark --- A MYSTERY beast could be roaming Huddersfield farmland, it is feared. The scare comes after a Kirkburton farmer found a lamb savaged - with its head nowhere to be seen. Stanley Shaw, of Riley Park, made the grim discovery in a field at the edge of woodland after he went looking for the missing lamb. He said: "Its head, neck and innards and part of the ribs had all gone. "It had been dragged by something from one end of the field to the other. "But there was no blood on the parts that were left." Mr Shaw added: "It couldn't be a fox and I don't believe it was a badger. I've never had trouble with badgers. "The way it's been eaten seems wrong. Whatever did it, it's a very clean eater." Mr Shaw says a fox or a dog would have made more mess - and eaten only a small amount of flesh. He added: "I am mystified and I'm worried about the other lambs. I don't know what to do for the best." Mr Tim Coy, group secretary of the National Farmers' Union at Honley, said he knew of no other reports of unusual attacks on animals. He said: "There have been supposed sightings of big black cats, possibly a lynx, in Denby Dale and Kirkheaton, but nothing like that recently. "When investigations were made, no trace was found. But one or two people remain convinced there was some strange animal on the loose." --- Best regards, Alan mailto:alan@eggless.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Galileo Camera Anomaly At Ganymede From: Alan Clark <alan@eggless.com> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 23:22:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:41:04 -0400 Subject: Galileo Camera Anomaly At Ganymede Dear Members I wonder if anyone noticed some unusual images on the Planetary Data System Imaging Node. I've been watching the release of images for years now. I would say I have an artistic interest, although I know some are studying the images for anomalies such as those possibly occurring on Mars. If you look at the release schedule at: http://www-pdsimage.jpl.nasa.gov/PDS/public/Atlas/GLL_sched.html you will see the 29th orbit is designated as G29, as it's main target was a flyby of Ganymede. What NASA calls 'SSI REDR' means pictures to us folks, and you will see that the release date of Nov. 2001 was postponed. You can enter the search form for all the Galileo data at: http://www-pdsimage.jpl.nasa.gov/PDS/public/Atlas/GLL_sched.html and if you enter 'Target Name' as Ganymede, and Orbit_Number as G29, you will get the 57 Images logged by the spacecraft. The first 16 Images are from the 'Near Infrared Imaging Spectrometer' or NIMS. Image 17 is the one that made me curious. It's the first in a black and white sequence. You need to download this picture and get it into an image manipulation package to increase it's brightness. I know they have been having problems with the camera, and I know that the radiation environment close in to Jupiter, at Europa and Io is particularly intense. It's a CCD camera, and the electronics get zapped. I am unable to characterize the spirals that appear in the image. Are they an artifact of the radiation environment (which shouldn't be so intense out at Ganymede), or are they an artifact of the transmission back to Earth? (I know sometimes the transmission is affected by the Sun). There will be a story to go with these images no doubt, and the postponement in November suggests to me that the JPL team had to think about this and reach their own conclusions - whatever they are! Many of the images following are strange too. Some clearly appear to be camera problems, but the spirals are strange to my eye. What is the mechanism that has created these spirals? At image 38, the images are normal - showing the ice flows on Ganymede. I have to presume that the camera suddenly started working again! Best Wishes Alan Clark Radlett, UK alan@eggless.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Secrecy News -- 04/26/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:15:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:43:31 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/26/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 36 April 26, 2002 ** NEED FOR "ANTI-LEAK" STATUTE DISPUTED ** ANOTHER HEARING ON PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS NEED FOR "ANTI-LEAK" STATUTE DISPUTED A pending Justice Department report on unauthorized disclosures ("leaks") of classified information -- due to be submitted to Congress next week -- is likely to revive controversy over the need for a legislative response to such disclosures. In the past two years, some members of Congress, led by Senator Richard Shelby, have advanced proposals to criminalize all unauthorized disclosures of properly classified information. But such proposals "are fundamentally misconceived, rife with unintended consequences, and neither necessary nor sufficient to achieve their goal," writes Steven Aftergood in an article in the Winter 2002 issue of National Security Studies Quarterly, published by Georgetown University. See: http: //www.georgetown.edu/sfs/programs/nssp/nssq/randraftergood.pdf That article was written in response to an earlier piece defending the need for new legislation to outlaw leaks authored by Michael Hurt, a congressional staffer. In reply, Mr. Hurt restates his original position here: http://www.georgetown.edu/sfs/programs/nssp/nssq/randrhurt.pdf The requirement for a Justice Department report on the issue, which is due May 1, was enacted in last year's intelligence authorization bill and may be found here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2001_rpt/hrep107-328.html#leaks ANOTHER HEARING ON PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS A House Government Reform subcommittee held its third hearing last Wednesday on President Bush's controversial executive order 13233 that imposes new restrictions on public access to presidential records from past Administrations. The latest hearing focused on legislation recently introduced in the House (H.R. 4187) that would effectively overturn the executive order. Under the bill's provisions, said Rep. Stephen Horn, a principal co-sponsor, "It would no longer be possible for a former or incumbent President to prevent the release of records indefinitely simply by inaction." Prepared statements from the April 24 hearing are posted here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/index.html#pra2 ****************************** Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the message: subscribe secrecy_news OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 26 Re: Article About Ramey Memo - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:46:39 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:46:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Article About Ramey Memo - Friedman >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:34:56 EDT >Subject: Re: Article About Ramey Memo >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Article About Ramey Memo >>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:31:52 -0300 >>I would like to call everyone's attention to a fascinating >>article 'A Message in a Bottle: Confounds in Deciphering the >>Ramey Memo from the Roswell UFO Case' by James Houran and Kevin >>D. Randle, in Journal of Scientific Exploration, 16:1, pp 45-66, >>2002. >Stan, List, All - > >Thanks, Stan, for saving me the trouble of mentioning this to >the List. I had been going to point out that the Journal was now >available but hadn't gotten around to it. >>I have only two tiny quibbles >And I will address but one. >>1. The statement is made that "Classified documents will always >>have markings on the top and bottom". I have seen a number of >>examples where that isn't true.However, the question of security >>markings is certainly germane >While I should have learned long ago never to speak in >absolutes, I will point out that in the declassification >process, that documents that were originally classified, have >had those markings removed (rather than just marked through) so >that there would be no evidence on them that they had once been >classified. >Policy is that all documents that are classified would be >properly marked with stamps at both the top and bottom. Does >this mean that nothing ever slipped through? No. It means it is >highly unlikely. It may well be that the removal of security markings happens in some facilities, but I just went through a host of formally classified documents from Presidential Archives. In almost all cases the TOP SECRET or SECRET stamps were still there but with a thin line drawn through them and a rubber stamp saying declassified with some places for date and declassification authority. There were cases in which a heavy black line went fully through the TOP SECRET so it could barely be read if at all. Some other documents had declassified or unclassified stamped over the original, still visible, marks. These were all pre-1960 documents. I did publish a few in my 108 page "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12" only $10. from UFORI . Special for the List, the Ramey Memo and the report for only $30. including priority mail >So, I guess on this point both of us are right. The document, if >related to Roswell should have been marked, but sometimes these >things happen. And, yes, I fully agree that things do get through the system and that application of the by-the-book rules is not consistent from facility to facility or even within the same facility. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot - From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:27:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:51:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:29:19 +0200 >Subject: Light Mystery At Derbyshire UFO Hotspot >Source: Evening Telegraph (This is Derbyshire): >http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=64387&command=display Content&sourceNode=63914&contentPK=1544963 >URL in one line without spaces. >Stig >*** >LIGHT MYSTERY AT UFO HOTSPOT >09:30 - 24 April 2002 >A new possible UFO alert in the Derbyshire hotspot of Bonsall >Moor has been sounded. There is the strong possibility that due to the adverse weather conditions of late (we have been warmer than the Algarve, I returned 10 days ago) that static electrivity from an electric pylon could have been the cause, otherwise tectonic activity in the ground. This ties in with the rise in temperature during March/April. Tim Matthews and I are considering sky watches there next month (after I upgrade my tan on the Costa Del Sol in early May for 2 weeks), due to not getting one in Albufeira. When I arrive home but please keep us updated. Many thanks, Eric Morris PS Are you coming to the Yorkshire UFOINFO Conference this Sunday? BUFOSC are opening their Close Encounter files again, with various publications in the planning.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:04:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:54:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Kaeser >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: Eleanor White <lrgm@arrakis.es> >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:14:59 +0000 >Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data >>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:01:42 +0200 >>Subject: Preserving Historical UFO Data ><snip> >>Somebody should try to locate the Hill's tapes, rescue and >>preserve them and also (ideally) prepare a _complete_ >>transcription. Any volunteer? >Were those tapes in possession of John Fuller when he died about >15 years ago? I believe I can contact his son. Betty Hill is going to attend the MUFON Symposium in July (in Rochester, New York). If all else fails, she might be contacted there to see if she knows where this material might have ended up. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Barbara Schutte Abduction? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 03:14:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:59:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Barbara Schutte Abduction? - Hatch >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:08:36 +0200 >Subject: Barbara Schutte Abduction? >Under the heading 'Repeated Abductions', Thomas Bullard included >in his 1987 study the case (#183) of Barbara Schutte. >His reference is just a newsclipping dated November 23, 1982. >Can anybody tell me more about this case or where to locate >additional data? Hello Luis: I don't store anything here by people's names. Do you have a date, time and location for case #183? Best - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Galileo Camera Anomaly At Ganymede - Koch From: Joachim Koch <Achimdkoch@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 07:30:34 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:01:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Galileo Camera Anomaly At Ganymede - Koch >From: Alan Clark <alan@eggless.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 23:22:24 +0100 >Subject: Galileo Camera Anomaly At Ganymede >You can enter the search form for all the Galileo data at: >http://www-pdsimage.jpl.nasa.gov/PDS/public/Atlas/GLL_sched.html Hi Alan, Thank you for this very interesting site address. I think there is a tiny mistake because the web address of the search form is: http://www-pdsimage.jpl.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/Nav/GLL_search.pl Greetings Joachim ---------------------------------------------------------------- Betty Hills Star Map, Reports from the Backyard of the Crop Circle Phenomenon, The International Roswell Intiative, Germany, the books of Koch / Kyborg, updates for Project ASA July 24th, 2002, and more on: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/achimkoch ----------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 27 Seeking Philip L. Rife From: chris aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:57:20 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:03:23 -0400 Subject: Seeking Philip L. Rife Dear List Members, I am looking for a way to contact Philip L. Rife, author of 'It Didn't Start With Roswell'. If anyone can help me, please contact me via e-mail. Thank you, Chris Aubeck
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 27 Alfred's Odd Ode #362 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:06:07 +0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 19:39:24 -0400 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #362 Alfred's Odd Ode #362 (Saturday April 27, 2002) Lately there has been a call for some new kind of "protocol", and I, with some dismay, must find... that I'm outside the box defined. Now why that box exists is moot, the hows and wherefores so much toot, but I have given up too much... to go without a fight, as such. I don't defer to bland attack, so I'm a megalomaniac? I work with words, a bit contentious, so I'm dismissed as too pretentious? I would think outside the box, I'd cut the crap and undo knots, so I'm the new disposable -- my comments? Inconsolable! Careful, I have kept my "screeds" to what has been defined/decreed... as permissible behavior by he who floats this list (our savior [g]). I say I don't attack the "man"... of needs I must attack his "stand"... if I find I disagree with what I see in front of me. "Concepts" are the game I seek, "approaches" that I'd check for leaks. "Ideas" are the 'bots contused debated on this List, in truth. If "attack's" perceived as personal, I'd surmise one's pre- conditional! I'd suggest repost falls short, and it's _that_ that twists ones shorts. Retreat in rage and be perceived as having lost the points one needs (?) to keep ones place at jealous tables... (and _from_ which come ones sneers and labels)? I don't have the time for that, to me that's so much _specious_ crap. Give me one, just one example, a tiny shred of just one _sample_ where invective or an insult issued from my words or conduct! And I defy you to perform as you have threatened -- do your harm! From these efforts most will see the real colors you would be. I attack "ideas" friend -- those stalled approaches _some_ pretend. And that's the thing provoking this, this call for rules that I dismiss. I'd suggest that one's remiss in what one's _done_, the cause of this. I would challenge _ones_ performance, that fact ones movement's clearly DORMANT, and I'd propose that UFOs are obvious and SOMEONE knows! Those quick to kill pro-active effort, or quick dismissing those alerted, those quick enough with poison pen but slow to cop their own pretence. Fifty years have gone by now, and still the truth's obscured, and how! What's your part in all of this? Explore that _not_ and be re- miss. Some, today, are led astray by those that use their skills "that" way. That way I speak of uses ruses, psychopath's profuse abuses, earnest and convincing, yes, but detrimental none-the-less. These would lead one down their path, all primrose covered hidden _wrath_ that pounces like an angry beast to bite you on the ass (at least!). It _could_ be argued I describe... myself I must, to you, confide... But I am on my guard for that... don't take my word though it's a fact. I think most members of this List would vouch for me. Am I remiss? I am sincere, have "confidence" that I propose is common sense, and won't deny I love myself, but not too much. It's mental health. ...Mainstreams call up vicious bullies! Willful, these despoil (and sully) that which "shall not" win their blessing! Angered, they are _tres_ depressing! They must see the harm they do as they pursue their cants... it's true. Chase their mainstream as it is... be doomed to disappointment, friend. Trust this mainstream at your peril, it renders you a mute and sterile. It won't respect what you have done... 'cause if it does, it comes undone! Protocols promote exclusion and prevent the odd intrusion of ideas that confound... the search for truth agreed profound? Go along with what's been done (?) but don't progress (and have _no_ fun), as some men have their sullen way, their _old_ ideas holding sway! These men confuse a hijacked mainstream with the mass's potent hi-beam. These would think they are the same, when they are NOT! They're not to blame. We masses are manipulated, our will is mocked and dissipated by the efforts in control of what that mainstream's bought and sold. ...And I don't fill your mouth with words... as you accuse. I don't concur. I may read between your lines... and garner, there, what _I_ might find, and then I'd write what I've perceived you've said to _me_ (I _do_ believe!), but I must have in _paucity_ what others have -- pomposity! Self promotion seems the rule, and 'some' will 'do' for others true. But I don't think I sing strained praises... for myself. I'd think it graceless. Others carry on and whine about their "talents" -- how they "shine." I observe and comment plainly. I'm not sorry _or_ complaining. I'd just show you where I stand. On "protocols" (?); I think they're... sad. Lehmberg@snowhill.com It's a box that's kept us from our heart's desire. It's a box that's precludes our ufological satisfaction. It's a box that makes an enemy of what might have been an ally... It's a box precluding synergy, advancement, elevation, and actualization. It's boxes that would hide the truths, support the lies and keep us stupid. It is boxes that have held us down, tied us up, and shut us out. It's a vast, vast market place of ideas, ladies and gentelbunkies, not a company store stocking only wilted vegetables. Breath with freedom! Challenge your boxes. That box by any other name would be a coffin for an idea! I won't argue the need for some boxes, scientific, moral, ethical, or otherwise. I'd guess it is access to these boxes, being allowed _out_ of the forkina box, even speculating on what might be beyond the limits of the freaking box in question. For an individual, a box is hell on earth if inside and a raging tease if outside. Subsequently, I think the airy suggestion for new boxes should be viewed with suspicion and unfavorably. Someone always comes up on a limit to the box and is hurt in some way. That's bad enough when the box has arguable necessity but intolerable where the box is contrived nonsense and a sociopathic dodge for gain (or maintenance of some _specious_ status quo). It's boxes that keep us from the stars; it's boxes that keep those stars from us. ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Seeking Philip L. Rife - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 14:29:58 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 19:43:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Seeking Philip L. Rife - Hall >From: chris aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:57:20 +0100 (BST) >Subject: Seeking Philip L. Rife >Dear List Members, >I am looking for a way to contact Philip L. Rife, author of 'It >Didn't Start With Roswell'. >If anyone can help me, please contact me via e-mail. Chris, Try Bob Girard (Arcturus Books) who sells Rife's book. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 08:59:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 19:53:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Hatch >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:04:51 -0400 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>To: Eleanor White <lrgm@arrakis.es> >>Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:14:59 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data >>>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:01:42 +0200 >>>Subject: Preserving Historical UFO Data >><snip> >>>Somebody should try to locate the Hill's tapes, rescue and >>>preserve them and also (ideally) prepare a _complete_ >>>transcription. Any volunteer? >>Were those tapes in possession of John Fuller when he died about >>15 years ago? I believe I can contact his son. >Betty Hill is going to attend the MUFON Symposium in July (in >Rochester, New York). If all else fails, she might be contacted >there to see if she knows where this material might have ended >up. I regret that I will be unable to attend. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:14:17 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 19:58:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Friedman >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:04:51 -0400 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>To: Eleanor White <lrgm@arrakis.es> >>Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:14:59 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data >>>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:01:42 +0200 >>>Subject: Preserving Historical UFO Data >><snip> >>>Somebody should try to locate the Hill's tapes, rescue and >>>preserve them and also (ideally) prepare a _complete_ >>>transcription. Any volunteer? >>Were those tapes in possession of John Fuller when he died about >>15 years ago? I believe I can contact his son. >Betty Hill is going to attend the MUFON Symposium in July (in >Rochester, New York). If all else fails, she might be contacted >there to see if she knows where this material might have ended >up. John Fuller's papers were donated to the archives at Boston University. I don't recall seeing any tapes or transcripts but there is a lot of material. There are many manuscript pages with Dr. Simon's comments. He was very tough on Fuller. Peter Geremia of New Hampshire was at the Archives with me. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 28 Computer Troubles From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:08:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:54:03 -0400 Subject: Computer Troubles Hello: Just a quick note. My computer is threatening to die (if I don't shoot it first). If I fail to reply to something, that's probably why. Best - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:38:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Roswell Vs. The Critics Greeting Bill, List and Readers <snip> >Here is what was presented by Don: >Almost fifty-five years and four explanations have past and >still the Roswell crash of 1947 remains one of the greatest >mysteries of all time. Within recent years there has been a >proliferation of anti-Roswell books that are not only debunking >but resort to nothing less than pure character assassination. When allegations of "Character Assassination" come from researchers like Don Schmitt, we definitely have ourselves a Kettle-Black situation. If Don was referring to comments about him, he has only himself to blame. It was not the skeptic community that lied about his education, employment, and especially his Roswell-related research, methods and conclusions. His history of distortion is so well known, I wonder at the level of support he receives today. "...I do not now believe anything that Schmitt says and neither should you." (Kevin Randle - in his To Whom It May Concern Letter dated Sept 10, 1995) If Don was referring to Maj. Jessie Marcel: Again, it was Jessie, and no one else, that told people like Moore and Pratt some pretty wild tales about his education and military record. It has been claimed many times by researchers that Jessie had no reason to lie about what he found on Foster's Ranch. But then, it is equally true that he had no reason to inflate his military record either. The term "Character Assassination" refers to derogatory and often false comments made by _others_ about the individual in question. In the case of Don Schmitt and Jessie Marcel, there were no "others"- they alone were/are solely responsible for their tall tales and confabulations. Aside from that, the case for the Roswell Incident being just a misidentified NYU balloon train does not rely on "Character Assassination". Whether Don and/or Marcel confabulated is immaterial. The records from 1947, the painfully obvious lies, contradictions and confusion of the many witness accounts, and a clear line of provenance establishing a NYU balloon train as the source of Brazel's find make it quite clear that the Roswell Disk had a very terrestrial origin. <snip> >Or is it all intended to stall and delay for time as >the remaining witnesses are quickly passing on? Is their >greatest concern still that of losing the war? And which side >possesses the truth? Don and Tom Carey claim to have interviewed over 600 witnesses, so I doubt that we will ever lack for fodder in future discussions about Roswell, despite the inevitable effects of Time. <snip> >Whether by mistake or by intention, the Air Force first >declared that they had recovered a "flying saucer", and that >they were shipping it to "higher headquarters" for scrutiny. (First, in the above paragraph, the correct identification for the issuer of the News Release is the Roswell Army Air Force Base. The "Air Force"- as in the official national entity- did not have anything to do with the initial news release.) It is this Declaration that is often cited as the starting point that proves the case for the Roswell Disk. And yet, by _all_ witness accounts, including Jessie Marcel's, the "Air Force" (Marcel) did not collect a "Flying Disk". All he found was scraps of foil, sticks, etc. No disk/saucer of any kind, and the debris did not bear any resemblance to one. It was only because of all the publicity over the prior two weeks that Brazel and Marcel made their now famous assumptions. The paper also said that it had been stored under a bush, that it had landed (not crashed) etc. The press release is notable for its lack of accuracy. >Within hours >of that statement, however, the Air Force changed its tune and >said that the 509th Command in Roswell and the local rancher >were wrong -- that what they had found was nothing more than a >rubber weather balloon and a tin-foil radar target. To enforce >this new version of the story, the Air Force resorted to the >time-honored practice of witness-tampering and intimidation: >monetary rewards, new duty assignments and security oaths to >silence military witnesses and exhortations of patriotism, >"national security" and, if those failed, outright death threats >to civilians, including their immediate family-members, who saw >tings they were deemed not supposed to have seen. For the most >part, this strategy worked, but not entirely [or we would not be >writing about it here]. There is nothing in the records contemporary to the 1947 era that even hints of these actions. It is wise to consider that fact. >Since then, the Air Force has admitted that they lied back in >1947 with their weather balloon story. They now say that the >debris was the remains of a rubber balloon and tin-foil radar >target from a then Top Secret project - Project Mogul -- which >was trying to detect Soviet nuclear detonations by means of >high-altitude, balloon-borne, acoustic-sensors. Let see - on July 8, 1947, the Official Line from Fort Worth was that the debris was a "rubber" (actually Neoprene) weather balloon and a foil radar target. In 1994, the Air Force Report said it was a Neoprene Weather balloon and a foil radar target. And you (or Don) call this a lie??? And the Air Force never "admitted" to a "lie" on this point, despite repeated accusations from some researchers. They didn't have to, as no lies were told. This particular bit of tortured logic has been claimed many, many times by researchers, and I can only assume that you are repeating it here in a continued attempt to seek acceptance through repetition. >[A Top Secret >project -- yes, but the balloon and radar targets were still the >same as before, if you follow that line of reasoning.] Nope - it still makes no sense at all. >Further, >to combat persistent stories of "little bodies" allegedly found >along with the debris, the Air Force held a press conference in >June of 1997 to declare that such stories stemmed from high >altitude parachute tests -- using mannequins -- that the Air Force >conducted during the late 1950's. [Mental "time compression" of >disparate events by witnesses was said to be the culprit.] And where did they get these stories from? The AF emphasized that they relied "almost exclusively on the descriptions PROVIDED BY THE UFO PROPONENTS THEMSELVES. (emphasis in AF report). Many of them were from Jim Ragsdale (who no one in the field of Ufology now believes after he swore out an affidavit totally repudiating his earlier affidavit) and Gerald Anderson (who no one, except possibly Stanton Friedman, now believes). The AF goes on that "Soon, it became apparent that the witnesses were either 1) confused, or 2) attempting to perpetrate a hoax." Consider that the majority UFO researchers have arrived at the same conclusions- that some of the main witnesses that the AF studied were doing 1 or 2. >To counter the Air Force claims, which have been accepted at >face value by the establishment media -- for example, the New >York Times, there is a plethora of books on the market making >the case that it was indeed a UFO that crashed in New Mexico in >1947. The problem is, however, that the various investigations >by private researchers have been uneven in their research >methods, their use of alleged documents and eyewitnesses and, as >a result, their respective scenarios and conclusions differ in >many respects. It is no wonder then, that the public at large >remains confused about the case. Most believe that something >happened back in 1947, but they are understandably not sure just >what it was. Indeed- it is very confusing. These pro-UFO books do share one remarkable feature, however. They ignore almost completely all the available evidence contemporary to the Event collected through many, many FOIA requests <snip> >1) About 2-1/2 miles from the debris field, 2 alien bodies were >found as if they were blown out of the craft after an explosion. >These beings looked almost like minature humans. Eyewitness >accounts show they had human-like eyes, ear shells, but no hair >on their bodies. These were NOT Grays. More bodies (4?) were >discovered near the crashed craft. Two were found alive! _More_ bodies? Question - how come Marcel never mentioned bodies, or even the highly unusual activity that should have been obvious regarding the handling of remains during the recovery operations? Regards, Bruce Hutchinson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Connors From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:02:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:32:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Connors >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:01:42 +0200 >Subject: Preserving Historical UFO Data <snip> >Somebody should try to locate the Hill's tapes, rescue and >preserve them and also (ideally) prepare a _complete_ >transcription. Any volunteer? The following audio files concerning the Hill abduction case are maintained at the Faded Discs Archive: 1. Tape 6 and 7 of the hypnosis sessions 2. Betty Hill 5/23/63 Lie Detector results 3. Betty and Barney Hill 11/4/63 4. Betty and Barney Hill 5/26/66 5. John G. Fuller 11/18/66 6. Barney Hill 10/25/66 7. Betty and Barney Hill 6/18/67 8. Betty Hill 10/23/75 9. Betty Hill and Dr. Simon 10/20/75 10. Dr. Benjamin Simon 11/24/75 11. Betty Hill 4/2/76 12. Betty Hill 1977 It is wonderful that so many people are calling for historical preservation. But, as one who literally puts their money where their mouth is, I have a question: When is the rank and file on this List or other Lists, going to start donating money to assist in historical preservation work? I spent over 10K last year alone (not including about 8 hours of time a day) on preservation projects and I received a donation of $20 from someone on this List who appreciated, not only what I am doing, but that he received copies of the materials he desperately needed for his research. How many of you List members actually donate a measly $20 a year to FUFOR so they can continue to make small grants to researchers? How many of you actually spend a measly $25 a year to subscribe to IUR and support CUFOS? Never mind, I already know the answer and the vast majority of Listers should be ashamed of themselves for not doing so. By the way, I just spent several full days preparing the Hickson/Parker CD. I sent out 30 copies (2 to other countries). Two people on this List graciously sent money to off-set my costs and time, which I am very grateful, but that money does not cover the other 28 copies that went out at my expense. Talk is cheap. Action speaks volumes. The bottom line is pretty simple... if you enjoy the field of Ufology and can only participate via Lists and buying a few researchers books, think about also donating to those professionals who are devoting their lives to ensuring that the materials you may need or information future generations will want, are available. Also, sign the UFO Petition now, not tonight, not next week, now while you're on UFO UpDates reading the posts. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:33:25 +0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:41:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Lehmberg >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Roswell Vs. The Critics >Greeting Bill, List and Readers <snip> ...Just reading between the lines, but why do I get the distinct impression that you found this an opportune time to strike with all the old red herrings, suspect interpretations, and canted qualifications raised and batted away and raised again to be batted away again... See the universe yawn and gape in front of you, Mr Hutchison. This box that you've convinced yourself is comforting will only contribute to the eventual general dissatisfaction, and I think that you will regret your part in it. Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:48:38 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:45:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Roswell Vs. The Critics <snip> Bruce, >Aside from that, the case for the Roswell Incident being just a >misidentified NYU balloon train does not rely on "Character >Assassination". You're correct. Whether the debris on Gen. Ramey's office floor is from a NYU RAWIN does not rely on testimony (although some testimony is still important) but primarily on measurements and close observation. Luckily we have Bond's FW photos which I believe tell most of the story. All that is needed is to carefully examine them, which obviously, you have failed to do. Otherwise you'd notice that the debris is not from a NYU RAWIN. There is some debris that does look like radar target material, but it is definitely not a NYU RAWIN. It does not have the measurements of a NYU RAWIN nor is it constructed like a NYU RAWIN. I sent you all the material you'd need to see this for yourself, and still you continue humming this tired old hymn. If you can't prove that the debris in the photos is from a NYU RAWIN, then the thesis that you, Karl Pflock, and the Air Force promote is dead and, hopefully, soon to be buried buried. Until you can explain these inconvenient facts, there's absolutely no need to answer the remainder of your post. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:57:36 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:47:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Hall >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data >Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:02:47 -0600 >>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:01:42 +0200 >>Subject: Preserving Historical UFO Data >>Somebody should try to locate the Hill's tapes, rescue and >>preserve them and also (ideally) prepare a _complete_ >>transcription. Any volunteer? >The following audio files concerning the Hill abduction case are >maintained at the Faded Discs Archive: > 1. Tape 6 and 7 of the hypnosis sessions > 2. Betty Hill 5/23/63 Lie Detector results > 3. Betty and Barney Hill 11/4/63 > 4. Betty and Barney Hill 5/26/66 > 5. John G. Fuller 11/18/66 > 6. Barney Hill 10/25/66 > 7. Betty and Barney Hill 6/18/67 > 8. Betty Hill 10/23/75 > 9. Betty Hill and Dr. Simon 10/20/75 >10. Dr. Benjamin Simon 11/24/75 >11. Betty Hill 4/2/76 >12. Betty Hill 1977 >It is wonderful that so many people are calling for historical >preservation. But, as one who literally puts their money where >their mouth is, I have a question: >When is the rank and file on this List or other Lists, going to >start donating money to assist in historical preservation work? >I spent over 10K last year alone (not including about 8 hours of >time a day) on preservation projects and I received a donation >of $20 from someone on this List who appreciated, not only what >I am doing, but that he received copies of the materials he >desperately needed for his research. >How many of you List members actually donate a measly $20 a year >to FUFOR so they can continue to make small grants to >researchers? How many of you actually spend a measly $25 a year >to subscribe to IUR and support CUFOS? Never mind, I already >know the answer and the vast majority of Listers should be >ashamed of themselves for not doing so. >By the way, I just spent several full days preparing the >Hickson/Parker CD. I sent out 30 copies (2 to other countries). >Two people on this List graciously sent money to off-set my >costs and time, which I am very grateful, but that money does >not cover the other 28 copies that went out at my expense. >Talk is cheap. Action speaks volumes. The bottom line is pretty >simple... if you enjoy the field of Ufology and can only >participate via Lists and buying a few researchers books, think >about also donating to those professionals who are devoting >their lives to ensuring that the materials you may need or >information future generations will want, are available. >Also, sign the UFO Petition now, not tonight, not next week, now >while you're on UFO UpDates reading the posts. >Wendy Connors Hear, hear! I strongly second the [e]motion. \ Wendy is the most unselfish, caring, sharing person that I know of in the UFO field, and indeed quietly produces far more solid work than any six of the big-talkers put together. She is absolutely right that everyone who seriously cares about some day finding the truth has a duty to contribute to those who are doing the work, either directly or through the UFO organization or activity of their choice. Otherwise, nothing but hot air sufficient to create temperature inversions will continue to prevail. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 28 SETI Gets By With Help From 3.5 Million Friends From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:27:21 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:49:49 -0400 Subject: SETI Gets By With Help From 3.5 Million Friends Source: International Herald Tribune, April 25, 2002, http://www.iht.com/articles/55771.htm Stig *** SETI gets by with help from 3.5 million friends George Johnson, The New York Times Thursday, April 25, 2002 ** Distributed computing aids many projects * Sometime this spring, if all goes as planned, SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, will reach a milestone: It will have spent a million years of computer time sifting electromagnetic noise from the sky for a sign that someone or something is trying to get in touch. SETI has accomplished this feat of computational drudgery in just three ordinary years - by persuading some 3.5 million people to allow their personal computers to be yoked into a loose-knit skein called SETI@home. While no alien messages have been discovered yet, the project's success in using the Internet to assemble an impromptu grass-roots supercomputer is inspiring other researchers to turn to the masses for problems requiring more computation than they could otherwise afford. Volunteers for the Folding@home and Genome@home projects offer up their computers' spare moments to run complex simulations that address problems in computational biology, such as how a protein bunches up into the complex shape that determines its role in the machinery of life. Evolution@home is studying how genetic mutations can radiate through a species, and FightAIDS@home is one of many efforts to test possible new drug designs. Other projects are searching for prime numbers millions of digits long, cracking cryptographic schemes or trying to predict the weather 50 to 100 years from now. "Even if we were given all the National Science Foundation supercomputing centers combined for a couple of months, that is still fewer resources than we have now," said Vijay Pande, the Stanford University biologist who directs Folding@home. Last year, Pande's research group set a record by using its volunteer network to simulate 38 microseconds of the folding of a snippet of protein called the beta-hairpin. That does not sound like much, but the previous record was 1 microsecond, and that took several months on a Cray supercomputer. In November, a different kind of milestone was reached when Gimps, for Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search, found the largest known number that has no factors. At more than 4 million digits, it took more than two years and tens of thousands of computers to find. (Mersennes, named for the 17th-century French mathematician Marin Mersenne, are numbers with a form that makes them easier to test for primeness.) This kind of marathon computing has become possible because of the vast amount of excess computing power in the world. When you lean back from your computer for a moment, the chip inside continues churning hundreds of millions of times a second. To computer scientists, that is as wasteful as leaving your car idling while you run into the store - hence the appeals to donate these "spare processing cycles" to the scientific charity of your choice. SETI@home, though not the first, has set the example. You begin by downloading a free piece of software that runs unobtrusively in the background, analyzing the outpouring of data - in this case signals received by the Arecibo Radio Observatory in Puerto Rico. Amid the din of radiating stars, an orderly train of pulses may conceivably be a message. One by one, SETI's servers automatically dispatch 107-second snippets of the cacophony to your computer. It begins crunching away, looking for promising patterns, and 10 to 50 hours later it automatically sends back the results and asks for more. For comparison, consider this: Among the most powerful computers that fit inside a single building is the Accelerated Strategic Computing Initiative's ASCI White, which is used for simulating nuclear weapons. Occupying a space the size of two basketball courts, it is rated at 12 teraflops, meaning that it can do 12 trillion calculations (floating-point operations, or flops) a second. By contrast, the SETI network - consisting at any moment of half a million or more personal computers - recently reached 30 teraflops. It sprawls across seven continents, including Antarctica, where 193 computers have contributed almost 300 computer years. "People have been locked into this supercomputing mentality," David Anderson, the SETI@home project director, said. "They want to have some gigantic thing in a box somewhere. I think that approach will ultimately go the way of the dinosaurs." For many problems, an in-house supercomputer such as ASCI White still has an enormous advantage: Packed closely together and connected with high-speed cable, its thousands of microprocessors can rapidly exchange information, updating each other on the fly. For many problems, this kind of constant communication is crucial. With home computers, the nodes are scattered across the planet, many communicating through low- speed dial-up modems, and can be incommunicado for days. But sometimes you can get by on sheer computing power. The challenge is to find a way to break up a problem into chunks that can be processed independently and combined later on. For SETI@home, the procedure is fairly straightforward: At any one time each volunteer is working on a brief segment of a signal from Arecibo. ** Copyright =A9 2002 the International Herald Tribune All Rights Reserved Search for other documents from or mentioning: folding | evolution |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 28 Living In A Post-Biological Universe? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:03:24 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:51:21 -0400 Subject: Living In A Post-Biological Universe? Source: The Bergen Record (New Jersey), April 28, 2002, http://www.bergen.com/page.php?level_3_id=3D42&page=3D3370127 Stig *** Guessing about extraterrestrials Sunday, April 28, 2002 By BOB GROVES Staff Writer ** Somewhere out there in other worlds, beings may have evolved into forms of artificial intelligence or even living machines too advanced to communicate with mortals on Earth, a government astrophysicist told radio astronomers at the College of New Jersey. "We may, in fact, live in a post-biological universe, one that has evolved beyond flesh- and-blood intelligence to artificial intelligence, a product of cultural rather than biological evolution," said Steven J. Dick, an astronomer and science historian since 1979 at the U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington. Dick was the keynote speaker Friday for the second annual technical symposium sponsored by the SETI (Search for Extra- Terrestrial Intelligence) League, a worldwide group of amateur radio astronomers based in Little Ferry. About 35 SETI League members and speakers from the United States, Britain, and Canada are attending the three-day event, which concludes today at the college in Trenton, said H. Paul Shuch, executive director of the group. After billions of years of evolution, life on other planets in other galaxies "would have produced something far beyond biology" as we know it, said Dick. "If that is the case, the chances of success for standard SETI programs may be greatly reduced, and our place in the universe may be quite different from anything envisioned except in science fiction." Dick served on former Vice President Al Gore's panel that studied the so-called "Mars rock," a meteorite thought to contain traces of bacteria from Mars. Dick also helped create NASA's program in astrobiology, which studies possible life forms in space. The private, non-profit SETI League was formed in 1994, a year after Congress stopped funding NASA's $12.5 million SETI program. The league has about 1,200 members in more than 60 countries, and all of the 50 United States. About 100 members are searching the heavens with radio telescopes in search of microwave signals that might be a message from sentient beings. Three years ago, the SETI League purchased part of an ostrich farm in Warren County, where the group plans to set up an array of 32 TV antenna dishes that will form a huge radio telescope for tracking signals from the stars. For the past 40 years, SETI enthusiasts worldwide have liked to think that extraterrestrials, however far evolved, are using the same radio technology as Earthlings to communicate with other worlds. Dick said this is a possibility, "but it is not the most likely scenario." Propelled by the "cultural evolution" of genetic engineering and biotechnology, humans one day in the future may join themselves to artificial intelligence as a kind of man-and-machine cyborg, Dick said. "Willing humans will have their brains scanned and uploaded into a computer, and live their lives as software running on machines," he predicted. Other civilizations on distant planets may have evolved to being nearly immortal, "unfettered mind children," Dick said. "They could very well have surpassed the [radio] electromagnetic stage," and become so different from humans that communication "between our minds and theirs ... is impossible.'' The idea that space aliens might be too smart to send or receive radio signals, "calls for a sweeping reconsideration of SETI assumptions and strategies," Dick said. Shuch agreed that "in searching for intelligent life, we should not restrict ourselves to life alone." * Staff Writer Bob Groves' e-mail address is groves@northjersey.com * 3370127 ** Copyright =A9 2002 North Jersey Media Group Inc. Copyright Infringement Notice (Link)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Raelians Have Begun Cloning Humans From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 00:36:14 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:39:05 -0400 Subject: Raelians Have Begun Cloning Humans Source: AFP via The National Post, Canada April 12, 2002, http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html? f=3D/stories/20020412/619810.html Stig *** April 12, 2002, Religious group says it has begun cloning humans * Implanting embryos * Agence France-Presse * WASHINGTON - Scientists from Clonaid, a firm linked to the Quebec-based Raelian movement, claim they have implanted the first cloned human embryos in women. The biotech firm, started by the founder of the Raelians, who believe humans were created by extraterrestrial scientists, says it is well on its way to bringing the first human clone into the world. "We have developed human embryos up to the blastocyst stage" -- a stage generally about five or six days after fertilization at which the embryo is made up of more than 100 cells, said Dr. Brigitte Boisselier, Clonaid's scientific director. "When they are well developed, we implant them." Dr. Boisselier, a Raelian bishop, refused to reveal the location of her laboratory, or how close the company may be to its goal. "When I say that we are doing this, we are doing it, but I cannot tell you where we are in terms of an actual birth." Dr. Boisselier has revealed little about her research because Clonaid is a private company. The Raelians, who claim 55,000 followers worldwide, believe that life on Earth was established by extraterrestrials who arrived in spaceships 25,000 years ago and that the first humans were created by cloning. The movement's founder, Rael - the former French journalist and race car driver Claude Vorilhon - lives north of Montreal. He describes himself as a prophet and claims that cloning will enable humanity to attain eternal life. However, the Raelians may be in a cloning race with a renegade Italian obstetrician, Dr. Severino Antinori, whose previous claim to fame was helping a 62-year-old woman get pregnant. The English-language daily Gulf News reported this month that Dr. Antinori told a medical conference in the United Arab Emirates that "one woman among thousands of infertile couples in the program is eight weeks pregnant" with a clone. A journalist with Rome's Il Tempo newspaper says Dr. Antinori told him the clone is of an "important, wealthy personality." ** Copyright =A9 2002 National Post Online
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Alevy From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:54:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:41:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data - Alevy >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: Eleanor White <lrgm@arrakis.es> >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:14:59 +0000 >Subject: Re: Preserving Historical UFO Data >>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:01:42 +0200 >>Subject: Preserving Historical UFO Data ><snip> >>Somebody should try to locate the Hill's tapes, rescue and >>preserve them and also (ideally) prepare a _complete_ >>transcription. Any volunteer? >Were those tapes in possession of John Fuller when he died >about 15 years ago? I believe I can contact his son. I recall reading that the tape of all of the Hill sessions with their Boston psychiatrist are preserved at the Library of Congress in D.C. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Reputed UFO Cult Leader Accused From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 04:49:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:44:36 -0400 Subject: Reputed UFO Cult Leader Accused Source: The Baltimore Sun via SunSpot.net, April 24, 2002, http://www.sunspot.net/news/local/carroll/bal-ca.cult24apr24.story?coll=3Dba= l%2Dlocal%2Dcarroll Stig *** Man accused in death plot to undergo mental tests * Reputed leader of cult of space aliens is 'not criminally responsible' * By Sheridan Lyons Sun Staff Originally published April 24, 2002 * The reputed leader of a space-alien cult is to undergo a mental evaluation as the result of an insanity plea filed in Carroll County Circuit Court, where he and three alleged followers were scheduled for trial next month on murder- conspiracy charges. Scott Caruthers, 56, of the 500 block of Scott Drive, Westminster, remained yesterday at the Carroll County Detention Center, where he has been held on $1 million bail since Oct. 3. He is accused of solicitation of and conspiracy to commit first- degree murder, with his wife, Dashielle Lashra, 42; Dulsa Naedek, 42, who lived at their home, and David S. Pearl, 46, a lawyer, of the 100 block of Masters Court. The others charged also have been held since October on $1 million bail each. Caruthers' defense attorney, George Psoras Jr., entered the plea in court papers noting Maryland law that Caruthers is "not criminally responsible by reason of insanity," because at the time of the alleged offense he lacked the capacity to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the law because of a mental disorder. Judge Michael M. Galloway signed an order April 4 for an examination by the state Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, to determine whether the defendant is criminally responsible. It is to be completed within 60 days of the order, according to the document. Caruthers, an artist, author and inventor, had been previously profiled in The Sun as a cult leader who communicated with a mother spaceship through cats, according to former associates and writings of an organization called Beta Dominion Xenophilia. But Caruthers said at the time that he was using the materials for his science-fiction writing, not in connection with a cult. According to charging documents in the criminal case, the four co- defendants are accused of planning in August and September of last year to hire a hit man to kill Caruthers' former business associate, David Gable of Baltimore County. But the supposed hit man instead went to authorities, according to charging documents. Charging documents said that two ex-husbands of the women and a man who tried to help family members investigate the cult were targets. At a bail hearing last fall, the attorney for Pearl said the supposed hit man was running a "scam" on the defendants and law enforcement officials. A fifth defendant, Amy C. Dardick, 40, formerly of the 500 block of Scott Drive was charged Oct. 20 with a conspiracy - naming the four other defendants - to have her ex-husband killed, according to charging documents in that case. Dardick was released on $10,000 bail and allowed to enter a deprogramming treatment center. She is to be tried separately. ** Copyright =A9 2002, The Baltimore Sun SunSpot.net is Copyright =A9 2002 by The Baltimore Sun.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 352 From: Edoardo Russo <e.russo@cisu.org> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:30:18 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:45:36 -0400 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 352 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 352 - 19 APRIL 2002 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) Contents: - New Statistics About The Sightings Of 2001 - Other C.I.S.U. Archives On-Line - Bruno Resta Dies NEW STATISTICS ABOUT THE SIGHTINGS OF 2001 The working group of the Italian Center for UFO Studies on the Italian case log released new data as of the sightings of alleged UFOs in our country during last year. With the new reports gathered in the month of March alone, the total number of catalogued cases, occurred in 2001, jumped from 655 to 717. As already done for the first months of 2002, the detailed catalogue of last year's sightings is in the advanced stages of production, complete with descriptions of documentary sources for each case. [Communication by Giorgio Abraini; Ufo-Italia, 10 April] OTHER C.I.S.U. ARCHIVES ON-LINE As it proceeds with the progressive transfer onto the Internet of its archives so as to make them more easily accessible, the Italian Center for UFO Studies (CISU) announced this week the trial debut of a new sector, having to do with its Press Archive. In fact, the C.I.S.U. maintains the greatest archive of press clippings containing UFO news published in newspapers and magazines that exists in Italy, with hundreds of thousands of items from 1946 through the present. In addition to its own network of correspondents and its file and library searches, in 1990 the Center also began an ongoing subscription to the specialized service "L'Eco della Stampa" (Echo of the Press), and this led to an increase of more than 11,000 original clippings in the last 11 year, with a monthly redistribution for UFO students both as a selection (the newsletter "Notiziario Archivio Stampa") and as an integral reproduction of all received clippings ("Eco UFO" service). Besides being filed in paper form, such material is today also recorded in electronic format and thus reasonably manageable also by means of telematic links. "Eco-UFO On-Line" is currently accessible only to C.I.S.U. members and other affiliated associations, but free-access options for all students and buffs are presently being examined, in the light of copyright laws. [Collaboration by Gildo Persone'] BRUNO RESTA DIES The date of 11 April marked the passing in Padua of Bruno Resta (aged 54); an engineer born in Puglia but a naturalized resident of Conselve (Padova), where he designed a large portion of the industrial area; an enthusiast of parapsychology and UFOs, arguments about which in 1998 he published the book "Da Galileo a Ustica" ("From Galileo To Ustica"), in which he attempted to propose a unifying theory for ufology within the framework of a conspiracy of silence having commenced with the trial of Galileo and arrived up to the infamous plane crash at Ustica. [Il Gazzettino, Padua edition, 13 April; report by Gildo Persone'; Ufo-Italia, 15-16 April] Collaborators on this edition were: Giorgio Abraini and Gildo Persone'. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader 1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684 ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gjpresto@mediaone.net Webpage: http://profiles.yahoo.com/italoman9 - - - (c) 2002 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 329.02.79 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics From: Bill Hamiliton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 05:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:47:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics <snip> >Aside from that, the case for the Roswell Incident being just a >misidentified NYU balloon train does not rely on "Character >Assassination". Whether Don and/or Marcel confabulated is >immaterial. The records from 1947, the painfully obvious lies, >contradictions and confusion of the many witness accounts, and a >clear line of provenance establishing a NYU balloon train as the >source of Brazel's find make it quite clear that the Roswell >Disk had a very terrestrial origin. So you believe that Jesse Marcel confabulated his story. And you buy into the Mogul solution despite problems with that story. You are entitled to your beliefs, but I do not think it is a very probable explanation. BTW, Col. DuBose also would have to be confabulating. I am sorry but the balloon train story doesn't hold much water with me. Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 CCCRN News: Odd Field Pattern In Saskatchewan From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:04:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:49:27 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Odd Field Pattern In Saskatchewan CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada April 29, 2002 _____________________________ ODD FIELD PATTERN - PIKE LAKE, SASKATCHEWAN An odd field pattern 'formation' was reported yesterday afternoon, a few miles north of Pike Lake, Saskatchewan (about 15 miles south of Saskatoon), discovered by pilot Niels Koehncke and Monique Mayer while flying in their Cessna the previous evening, April 27. The pattern is an unusual long series of odd pointed / angular shapes, some of which appear roughly symmetrical. The field is apparently still just stubble at most as per this time of year, so just what these shapes may be is unclear. Monique told CCCRN that they had not seen anything like it before so she took digital photos. Thanks also again to pilot and CCCRN assistant John Erickson in Estevan for forwarding this report. Copies of photos have been posted on the web site: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/pikelake02photos.html The 2001 report archive has also been updated again, with some additional photos added for Surrey, Midale #4 and Midale # 1. ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522 Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 The Amazing Kreskin From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:25:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:52:22 -0400 Subject: The Amazing Kreskin Hi all, Just as a fun item I thought I'd post this. Did anyone manage to catch Fox & friends this morning with the 'amazing Kreskin'? If not here's what Kreskin had to say: "The next major UFO sighting will be in May or June, the largest in recorded history. It will take place in the state of Nevada one hundred or more people will witness the incident. There will be no more than three or four ufos in the sky at one time" He also went on record as saying: "I am so convinced about the accuracy of my prediction that I am putting up 50,000 dollars to support my claim. It is my decision that should I be wrong I will turn over to the team of Fox and friends at the Fox news network 50,000 dollars to be distributed to charities that we will determine"' Kreskin ended with: "And it's going to happen, not in Canada where most of the sightings have been, it will happen on the desert in the state of Nevada and it will be within that time frame" The way I see it, that's fifty grand gone to charity as we speak, not a bad thing. It's also worth mentioning that Kreskin was peddling a book (the real reason for being there) called 'The amazing Kreskin's future with the stars' Predictions? Let's not all hold our breath, CU L8R Dave Bowden
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:41:38 -500 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:54:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:33:25 +0600 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >...Just reading between the lines, but why do I get the distinct >impression that you found this an opportune time to strike with >all the old red herrings, suspect interpretations, and canted >qualifications raised and batted away and raised again to be >batted away again... (Reading between the lines) It is quite illuminating that you did not find Bill Hamilton's post equally chock full of tired old Red Herrings, and repititious rehashing of suspect and selectively misrepresented data. >See the universe yawn and gape in front of you, Mr Hutchison. >This box that you've convinced yourself is comforting will only >contribute to the eventual general dissatisfaction, and I think >that you will regret your part in it. Your own box, comfortable as it is may be, has restricted your ability to peer beyond its confines. My dissatisfaction with the state of UFO research in general is, I hope, quite evident. It is my hope that I can agitate some to look at the subject more objectively, and persuade them to quell their obvious emotional attachments to suspect data. No regrets. Regards, Bruce Hutchinson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Living In A Post-Biological Universe? - From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:57:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Living In A Post-Biological Universe? - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:03:24 +0200 >Subject: Living In A Post-Biological Universe? >Source: The Bergen Record (New Jersey), April 28, 2002, >http://www.bergen.com/page.php?level_3_id=42&page=3370127 >Stig >*** >Guessing about extraterrestrials >Sunday, April 28, 2002 >By BOB GROVES >Staff Writer >** >Somewhere out there in other worlds, beings may have evolved >into forms of artificial intelligence or even living machines >too advanced to communicate with mortals on Earth, a government >astrophysicist told radio astronomers at the College of New >Jersey. >"We may, in fact, live in a post-biological universe, one that >has evolved beyond flesh- and-blood intelligence to artificial >intelligence, a product of cultural rather than biological >evolution," said Steven J. Dick, an astronomer and science >historian since 1979 at the U.S. Naval Observatory in >Washington. <snip> This statement has a western cultural bias to it. For eastern culture, intelligence evolves into a post-biological intelligence like Arthur C. Clark's Vanamonde from his novel 'The City and The Stars' described as an advanced non-corporeal entity of unimaginable intellect and knowledge, but little wisdom or emotional maturity. Created by the citizens of the galactic Empire many ages ago. Vanamonde has so many more degrees of freedom than an AI unit housed in hardware of a human mind housed in a body. - Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:00:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hamilton >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:48:38 -0700 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0700 (PDT) >>>Subject: Roswell Vs. The Critics ><snip> >>Aside from that, the case for the Roswell Incident being just a >>misidentified NYU balloon train does not rely on "Character >>Assassination". >You're correct. Whether the debris on Gen. Ramey's office floor >is from a NYU RAWIN does not rely on testimony (although some >testimony is still important) but primarily on measurements and >close observation. >Luckily we have Bond's FW photos which I believe tell most of >the story. All that is needed is to carefully examine them, >which obviously, you have failed to do. Otherwise you'd notice >that the debris is not from a NYU RAWIN. >There is some debris that does look like radar target material, >but it is definitely not a NYU RAWIN. It does not have the >measurements of a NYU RAWIN nor is it constructed like a NYU >RAWIN. <snip> >Until you can explain these inconvenient facts, there's >absolutely no need to answer the remainder of your post. Ed, I agree with you, but the photo with Marcel holding an aluminum foil sheet at an upturned angle does look like part of shredded RAWIN from a weather balloon which matches the original cover story. Whether there is other material in the photo beside the RAWIN target is unclear to me. However, alluding to statements made by Brazil and Marcel who saw the debris field which was strewn with more metal than found on RAWIN targets with pieces twice as large as some of those RAWINs is discounted by Bruce as he has stated Marcel was a confabulator so no evidence about the debris can convince him otherwise. Even though the balloon trains and microphone attachment were so secret they appeared in a newspaper, we still have to account for the over-reaction of the Army Air Force to nothing more than balloon debris, balloon debris found on the huge Foster ranch before and after this incident. So much to do about nothing but balloons! Gee whiz. -Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Trindade Island Case Update From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:24:22 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:01:41 -0400 Subject: Trindade Island Case Update While listening to Dr. J. Allen Hynek's interview of Almiro Barauna I was stunned (as was Hynek) to hear that the Trindade Island disc: 1. Undulated (wobbled) and tipped, twice. 2. The object was picked up on the Almirante Saldanha's radar 15 minutes before it came into view. 3. All power aboard the ship failed at the time the object came into view and power returned suddenly as the object departed. 4. That all sea gulls, etc. disappeared just before the object came into view. This is information that is not currently part of the main literature of the case. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:50:11 -500 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:37:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson >From: Bill Hamiliton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 05:51:35 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics ><snip> >>Aside from that, the case for the Roswell Incident being just a >>misidentified NYU balloon train does not rely on "Character >>Assassination". Whether Don and/or Marcel confabulated is >>immaterial. The records from 1947, the painfully obvious lies, >>contradictions and confusion of the many witness accounts, and a >>clear line of provenance establishing a NYU balloon train as the >>source of Brazel's find make it quite clear that the Roswell >>Disk had a very terrestrial origin. >So you believe that Jesse Marcel confabulated his story. I did not say Marcel confabulated. I did, however, point out that Jessie was not the "saint" that some would like to portray, and that he did present information about his past that, when checked, proved to be false. In other words, his testimony must be viewed in the same context as most of the witnesses - the memories of a person trying to recall places, people and events that happened over 30 years prior. It is also obvious that at least some of Jessie's memories were distorted by time. >And you >buy into the Mogul solution despite problems with that story. There are far fewer problems with the Mogul solution than with any other version, and most of these "problems" arise from assumptions. <snip> >BTW, Col. DuBose also would have to be confabulating. An elderly DuBose told researchers a variety of contradictory stories, so it would depend on which version you want to rely upon. >I am sorry but the balloon train story doesn't hold much water >with me. Ahhhh, but it flies better than it holds water. Regards, Bruce Hutchinson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:08:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:40:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:15:48 -0700 (PDT) >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:48:38 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >>>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500 >>>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>>>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0700 (PDT) >>>>Subject: Roswell Vs. The Critics >I agree with you, but the photo with Marcel holding an aluminum >foil sheet at an upturned angle does look like part of shredded >RAWIN from a weather balloon which matches the original cover >story. Bill, That photo shows what appears to be a type of material from which radar targets were made or something very similar. But our measurements, so far, indicate that it is not from a NYU RAWIN. Thanks to Andrew Lavoie and others, we have a method of measuring the length, width and height of most of the look-a- like RAWIN material, and it does not match the RAWIN specs, nor the description given us by Moore. We are not yet able to identify the type radar target, but there is other debris that doesn't fit with any known radar target or anything else you'd normally find on an Army General's office floor. The closest family resemblance to the FW debris is found in the Alien Autopsy debris clips. The FW debris shows an I beam with symbols and these symbols show a striking resemblance to symbols seen on an AA I beam. >However, alluding to statements made by Brazil and Marcel who >saw the debris field which was strewn with more metal than found >on RAWIN targets with pieces twice as large as some of those >RAWINs is discounted by Bruce as he has stated Marcel was >a confabulator so no evidence about the debris can convince >him otherwise. Maybe not, but he has the photos and the software we provided. He can contact Andrew and find out how the measurements were calculated and discover for himself how mistaken he is about the nature of the debris. If he can't prove that the FW debris is a NYU RAWIN, then the whole Mogul/RAWIN story should soon disappear. >Even though the balloon trains and microphone attachment were >so secret they appeared in a newspaper, we still have to account >for the over-reaction of the Army Air Force to nothing more than >balloon debris, balloon debris found on the huge Foster ranch >before and after this incident. So much to do about nothing >but balloons! Gee whiz. I agree. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Ticchetti From: Thiago L. Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:10:29 -0300 (BRT) Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:58:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Ticchetti >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Trindade Island Case Update >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:24:22 -0600 >While listening to Dr. J. Allen Hynek's interview of Almiro >Barauna I was stunned (as was Hynek) to hear that the Trindade >Island disc: >1. Undulated (wobbled) and tipped, twice. >2. The object was picked up on the Almirante Saldanha's radar 15 >minutes before it came into view. >3. All power aboard the ship failed at the time the object came >into view and power returned suddenly as the object departed. >4. That all sea gulls, etc. disappeared just before the object >came into view. >This is information that is not currently part of the main >literature of the case. Hi list. Wendy, what you wroteto us, is really important, because I have here the SBEDV bulletin about the case and in any part of it is mentioned what you wrote. The part you said that the disc wobbled, destroy all the skeptics that said that the objet was the planet Saturn. The power failure is really interesting as well. And the part of the radar is new to me. I will check in my files and with friends if I can confirm what you wrote, or your tape is unique about such informations. Regards, Thiago Luiz Ticchetti Brazilian Entity for Extraterrestrial Research Bras=EDlia/Brasil
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:43:52 +0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:17:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Lehmberg >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:41:38 -500 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:33:25 +0600 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics >>...Just reading between the lines, but why do I get the distinct >>impression that you found this an opportune time to strike with >>all the old red herrings, suspect interpretations, and canted >>qualifications raised and batted away and raised again to be >>batted away again... >(Reading between the lines) It is quite illuminating that you >did not find Bill Hamilton's post equally chock full of tired >old Red Herrings, and repititious rehashing of suspect and >selectively misrepresented data. Yeah, Yeah... but it=92s the same stuff isn't it? The same stuff that was floated a few months ago and kicked around by all the contributors like a ping pong ball on a course gravel road? Was it time to bring it back to the surface after some special 'brewing' time where it lay moldering, festering and otherwise 'ripening' at the bottom of your murky pond of cosmological denial? Maybe a few new folks had tuned in and you could toss your damp blanket of reasonable _sounding_ skepti-bulogical hoo- ra on their curiosity with earnest tales of lying incompetents in charge of intelligence activities regarding the "only men in the world with their hands on an atomic bomb", rotten rubber, and balloons that don't even keep themselves off the ground, much less the baggage they are made to carry... just enough quality facacta to baffle the credulous and mollify the folks with other fish to fry. I'd say well done, but it's not that much of a game. >>See the universe yawn and gape in front of you, Mr Hutchison. >>This box that you've convinced yourself is comforting will only >>contribute to the eventual general dissatisfaction, and I think >>that you will regret your part in it. >Your own box, comfortable as it is may be, has restricted your >ability to peer beyond its confines. My Box? _My_ box? My _box_? It may be as you say, I suppose. But that reference to _my_ box looks suspiciously like another artful dodge to me, a wearing of the cloak of something current or topical as a guise for relevancy, and upon examination (?) unsupportable, valueless, and facile. >My dissatisfaction with the >state of UFO research in general is, I hope, quite evident. Dude! It's so much wild blueberry horse muffins! There is no UFO _research_, quality or otherwise, Mr. Hutchinson! A large reason for that lack of effort comes from busy individuals such as yourself that stridently, regularly, and a little officiously and condescendingly point out the usual, ignore the unusual, and put a little more noise in the signal to keep the giggle factor high, _just_ so credible folks won't go over and have a gainful look. >It >is my hope that I can agitate some to look at the subject more >objectively, and persuade them to quell their obvious emotional >attachments to suspect data. No sir - I think your program is to discourage folks from doing any looking at all. But that's OK! <g>. I'm just as busily campaigning for them to engage in the "big" look, the creative and critical thinking that some would just _pretend_ and that you only allude to, here. I would have folks look for themselves. Seeing, I would have them encourage other efforts to see. Next thing you know, we've captured the mainstream back from the psychopaths, sound-biters, and ditto-heads... I think you would go do their looking _for_ folks and then tell them what you're comfortable having them know. Which is kind of what we all get now, anyway, more support for a specious status quo. What 'service' were you performing, again? >No regrets. It's early. Lehmberg@snowhill.com ~~=D6~~ EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: rindade Island Case Update - Connors From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:49:43 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:20:59 -0400 Subject: Re: rindade Island Case Update - Connors >From: Thiago L. Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:10:29 -0300 (BRT) >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Ticchetti >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Trindade Island Case Update >>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:24:22 -0600 Hi Thiago, >Wendy, what you wroteto us, is really important, because I have >here the SBEDV bulletin about the case and in any part of it is >mentioned what you wrote. Jim Klotz of CUFON and I discussed this today. We've both checked the literature and this information is lacking. It is indeed important new information, but Dr. Hynek did his interview with Barauna in April, 1982. With him were Cynthia Hinds, Dr. Leo Sprinkle and others. I am guessing that due to the fact that the Trindade Isle case was old news by this time, it might not have been felt by those in attendance to rewrite the case outline. Thank goodness the recorded interview still exists. One thing this new information confirms, is that those who tout that there is nothing to gain by revisiting old cases, haven't a clue as to what they are talking about. >The part you said that the disc wobbled, destroy all the >skeptics that said that the objet was the planet Saturn. I would say that any skeptic that said the Trindade Isle object was Saturn is brain dead. I challenge any scientist on the planet to prove to that the planet Saturn can be observed with the naked eye during the noon hour. Any scientist who says it can should certainly have their Degree voided and their credentials shredded. >The power failure is really interesting as well. Mark Rodeghier missed this one in his _Vehicle Interference_ report. <G> >And the part of the radar is new to me. >I will check in my files and with friends if I can confirm what >you wrote, or your tape is unique about such informations. >Regards, >Thiago Luiz Ticchetti I will look forward to hearing what you and your peers come up with. Best Always, Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Sanchez-Ocejo From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:06:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:27:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Sanchez-Ocejo >From: Thiago L. Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:10:29 -0300 (BRT) >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case Update >>From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Trindade Island Case Update >>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:24:22 -0600 >>While listening to Dr. J. Allen Hynek's interview of Almiro >>Barauna I was stunned (as was Hynek) to hear that the Trindade >>Island disc: >>1. Undulated (wobbled) and tipped, twice. >>2. The object was picked up on the Almirante Saldanha's radar 15 >>minutes before it came into view. >>3. All power aboard the ship failed at the time the object came >>into view and power returned suddenly as the object departed. >>4. That all sea gulls, etc. disappeared just before the object >>came into view. >>This is information that is not currently part of the main >>literature of the case. >Wendy, what you wrote to us, is really important, because I have >here the SBEDV bulletin about the case and in any part of it is >mentioned what you wrote. >The part you said that the disc wobbled, destroy all the >skeptics that said that the objet was the planet Saturn. >The power failure is really interesting as well. >And the part of the radar is new to me. >I will check in my files and with friends if I can confirm what >you wrote, or your tape is unique about such informations. Dear Ticchetti, What Wendy Connors wrote is true. I taped Mr. Barauna's interview by Dr. Hynek during our dinner at the hotel restaurant during the II International Ufology Congress in Brasilia, Brazil, on April 19, 1983 at 8:15 p.m.. Present, at the table where; Leo Sprinkle, Cynthia Hind, Carlos Reis, Irene Granchi, Cynthia Lubilus, Mr. and Mrs. Barauna, Dr. Hynek and myself. Mr Barauna said that it was Captain Diego of the Brazilian Air Force, also present aboard the ship, who saw the UFO not only undulate or wobble but also tip twice. Mr. Barauna said that the ship's radar picked up the UFO twice before the ship's power failed. He calculated the size of the oval UFO was about 40 meters around by 8 meters high. You can find more information in CUFOS, International UFO Reporter, July/August 1983, Vol. 8. No.4 Regards, Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo Miami UFO Center http://UFOmiami.dventures.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: The Amazing Kreskin - Ledger From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:14:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:41:53 -0400 Subject: Re: The Amazing Kreskin - Ledger >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: The Amazing Kreskin >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:25:25 +0100 >Hi all, >Just as a fun item I thought I'd post this. >Did anyone manage to catch Fox & friends this morning with the >'amazing Kreskin'? >If not here's what Kreskin had to say: >"The next major UFO sighting will be in May or June, the largest >in recorded history. >It will take place in the state of Nevada one hundred or more >people will witness the incident. >There will be no more than three or four ufos in the sky at one >time" >He also went on record as saying: >"I am so convinced about the accuracy of my prediction that I am >putting up 50,000 dollars to support my claim. It is my decision >that should I be wrong I will turn over to the team of Fox and >friends at the Fox news network 50,000 dollars to be distributed >to charities that we will determine"' <snip> Hello Dave: I don't suppose Kreskin or anyone suggested a nice escrow account, you know, to keep things on the up and up .. Kreskin has left himself with a few alternatives: a) Wait and hope for some actual well publicized event, b) Hire some "UFOs" to put on a Phoenix style light show over Las Vegas or Reno/Tahoe.. c) Wait for the usual nite-lites from some newsletter, blow them out of proportion and yell Bingo! d) Invite 200 people to a barbecue and fire off flares from behind a fence. e) Backpedal and/or weasel out entirely. The only prediction I would make is that no charity worthy of the name will see a dime of that $50K. He might rely on most people forgetting all about this by July. Best - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Gevaerd From: A. J. Gevaerd (Revista UFO) <gevaerd@ufo.com.br> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 05:19:39 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:50:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Gevaerd >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:06:23 -0400 >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case Update >I taped Mr. Barauna's interview by Dr. Hynek during our dinner >at the hotel restaurant during the II International Ufology >Congress in Brasilia, Brazil, on April 19, 1983 at 8:15 p.m.. >Present, at the table where; Leo Sprinkle, Cynthia Hind, Carlos >Reis, Irene Granchi, Cynthia Lubilus, Mr. and Mrs. Barauna, Dr. >Hynek and myself. >Mr Barauna said that it was Captain Diego of the Brazilian Air >Force, also present aboard the ship, who saw the UFO not >only undulate or wobble but also tip twice. Trindade Island Case Is OK. Barra da Tijuca Is Not Hello Virgilio: I recollect meeting you, Dr. Sprinkle, Dr. Hynek, Dr. Hurtak and Dr. Haines at that conference in Brazil, 1983. You gave me a copy of your book, which I believe is titled UFOs from Undersea, published by Wendelle Stevens. Barauna was one of the invited speakers and gave to a few persons first hand copies of his famous pictures. I got a set and I still keep them as a real treasure. His case has been undisputed for decades, since it is definitely one of the most solid cases ever registered in the world. Barauna=B4s reputation is absolutely intact, so are the reputations of several others involved in the Trindade Island observation. However, if that is the case for Barauna=B4s pictures, unfortunately it is NOT for the also very famous Barra da Tijuca photos, made by Ed Keffel and Jo=E3o Martins. I am afraid to say that the suspicious of many people in the last decades had become true: the photos are fake. Several top Brazilian UFO researchers have been engaged in a series of new evaluations of those photos, including visits to the site where they were take, reconstitution of the facts etc. Now, one of our leading UFO photo analysis expert, engineer Claudeir Covo, has come public about it. The Barra da Tijuca's photos are very bad fakes. That=B4s sad because they were like symbols of the Brazilian Ufology. But that is the fact! Maybe some of you read any Portuguese and would like to check out this link: http://www.inpu.hpg.ig.com.br/tijuca1.htm Regards, A. J. Gevaerd editor, Brazilian UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 30 Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.30.02 From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:01:57 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:51:29 -0400 Subject: Eras News: Weekly Briefing 4.30.02 ERAS NEWS The E-News Service of The Eras Project http://www.geocities.com/erasproject April 30, 2002 _____________________________ WEEKLY BRIEFING 4.30.02 EXOBIOLOGY The Search for Extraterrestrial Life Guessing About Extraterrestrials http://www.bergen.com/page.php?level_3_id=3D42&page=3D3370127 SETI Gets By With Help From 3.5 Million Friends http://www.iht.com/articles/55771.htm QUANTA Science and Technology Sending RATs to Mars http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/rat01.html In New Theory of Universe, Time Never Ends http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/new_universe_020425.html Hubble Space Telescope Helps Pin Down Beginning of Time http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/age_universe_020424.html Dark Energy Tops List of 'Big Questions' http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/big_questions_020426.html Atlanta 'Segways' to Scooters http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/04/24/segway.testing/index.html ____________________________ Eras News is the e-news service of The Eras Project, providing the latest news, reports and updates, including the Weekly Briefing, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe Eras News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Eras Project is a non-profit future studies project focusing on the leading-edge news, events, ideas and discoveries that will shape the future of humanity as we enter the 21st Century and a new Era. 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522 Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/erasproject =A9 The Eras Project, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 30 Fwd: Re: AA CD Set From: Jerry Cohen - UFO <cohenufo@optonline.net> Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:51:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:33:34 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: AA CD Set An email exchange between Ed Gehrman and myself which I thought might be of interest to the List. jc - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>>At 10:38 AM 04/26/2002 -0700, you wrote: >>>Jerry, >>>Very interesting site! >>>I learned about you from reading UpDates and having just >>>visited for the first time, I must say that I'm much impressed. >>>I noticed you haven't mentioned the Alien Autopsy >>>or the Analysis of the Ramey Message or the FW photos >>>and the analysis of the debris. Within the next month >>>there should be quite a discussion of these topics >>>on Updates. I'd be more than happy to send you >>>a two disc set of the alien autopsy in both high and low >>>resolution, and high resolution scans of the FW photos, >>>plus photos of RAWINs and complete specs of >>>same,and much more. If you're interested, >>>send me your mailing address and I'll mail them today. >>>I realize that the AA has been dismissed by most >>>serious researchers; this is a mistake. I haven't >>>found any evidence that the AA is a hoax or a fraud. >>>Do you know of any? >>>Ed Gehrman >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: CohenUFO >>To: ed gehrman >>Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 5:48 PM >>Subject: Re: AA CD set >>Hello Ed, >>I don't think I'm going to be much help to you in the way >>you want. If you notice, there is very little abduction, >>or "alien" thing on my site, with the exception of Walton >>which happened sandwiched in with the SAC base >>visitations you may have read about in the >>Fawcett/Greenwood book "The UFO Coverup" formerly >>titled "Clear Intent". >>There is so much information out there, it is really difficult >>to see the forest for the trees. For all I know, what you're >>saying may be 100% correct (or not), but I noticed, after >>all this time (i.e. 35 years . . that's how long I've been at >>this seriously) that there was one thing missing from the >>whole research scene. The "intelligent skeptics," the >>ones that count the most, don't believe there is anything >>unusual flying around in our airspace. If they don't believe >>that. . they're not going to believe anything past that, nor >>is the bulk of humankind; for these skeptics are >>humanities' mental buffer, so to speak; Oberg, Klass, >>etc. protecting the human consciousness from a thought >>that once agreed upon can open a very scary door >>indeed; i.e. "We have visitors." Once it's open, Lord only >>knows where the mind has to go. I have personally >>experienced the paranoia and know where it has taken >>me at times and, it is not pleasant. >>The collective human brain is not going to allow this to >>happen unless absolute conclusive proof is given. This >>is the main reason most abduction and animal >>mutilation researchers are all banging their heads >>against a brick wall. Not that their research isn't >>important; we all know it is. It's just that you'll never >>convince humanity as a whole, (i.e. the average person >>and the majority of other researchers), until skeptics and >>ET proponents agree on this one point. But, don't let your >>hopes sag because I believe we're getting very close to a >>breakthrough. What I'm trying to accomplish with my web >>site is to attempt to see a somewhat clear path through >>the forest. >>I felt this medium (the web) was the best to present our >>case as the links one can put to each specific topic can >>give people instantaneous references, to information they >>perhaps never thought about, don't quite understand or >>haven't fully digested. Things a regular book could never >>do. Also note, it is even easier to put a link in a web >>page than it is in this letter. That's why I put my research >>on line. I could have easily sold this as a book but, it just >>wouldn't have the same impact. It started out with me >>trying to explain my own sighting to myself. Then I found >>myself defending Hynek and McDonald on the Net from >>what I learned, but then it grew to something beyond that. >>There is a thread through this whole thing, as Steven Greer >>put it, "People are beginning to connect the dots." I think >>we may almost have enough dots. >>As far as I'm concerned, the combination of- cases that >>were spoken about in the FOIA releases, >>http://www.cohenufo.org/Nsday.Art.79.html >>and certain cases that have occurred thereafter, >>http://www.cohenufo.org/authorsc.html#Belgium >>and witnesses being dug up by Greer/Gersten, >>http://www.cohenufo.org/Military%20Nuclear%20Specialists%20Testify%20To%20UFO %20Reality.htm >>have given us some pretty solid proof that something out >>of the ordinary is going on. You can see all of the following >>just by clicking to my web site. Peter Sturrock and the >>Stanford panel realized this when CUFOS, FUFOR and >>MUFON brought them their best cases. >>http://www.cohenufo.org/authorsc.html#rckrpt >>(If link doesn't work for you, click Rockefeller Report) >>The panel decided to give ufology some room to breathe >>and allowed them to pursue their case with a shred more >>dignity than Condon ever permitted. Now, only time will tell. >>One need only look at the Belgium NATO military case >>http://www.cohenufo.org/authorsc.html#Belgium >>(ibid - Belgium) >>of early 1990, which is as solidly verified and documented >>as any I've ever seen, (FUFOR, CUFOS & MUFON >>probably have better ones), check the descriptions of what >>was reported, and then check it against the FOIA-verified >>Iranian 1976 sighting. (You can click to it from there.) >>Although it wasn't a triangle that was reported in the Iranian >>sighting, one can see something was ejected towards the >>chase planes from the persued UFO and interacted with >>those planes disarming electrical systems, then flew back >>to the main UFO. That description was already in print >>since 1976. The Belgium sightings, on the other hand, >>describe a triangular "platform" of some type with lights on >>each corner and a central pulsating red or orange light, >>which in a number of police reports was said to have >>detached itself from the main "craft," (if you don't call it a >>craft, what on earth is it? The descriptions were >>super-detailed and reporters weren't wearing EMF >>hallucination inducing helmets.) performed various >>maneuvers and eventually returned to the "platform." The >>similarities between the two cases are, at the very least >>striking, if only in that one respect. >>Then, in January 2000, in the USA, we have another >>documented case of yet "another" close-up sighting by >>policemen of a triangle, virtually the _same_ as >>witnessed in Belgium. >>http://www.cohenufo.org/NIDS%20reply%20to%20Klass.htm >>Klass tried to sluff it off with a standard "You saw Venus" >>explanation but NIDS, a group composed of a number of >>PhDs including Edgar Mitchell, sixth man to walk on the >>moon, is fully supporting the case and gives a detailed >>account as to what was seen; so professionally done and >>so completely blowing away Klass' mindless explanation, >>that it raised the hair on the back of my neck; and I >>haven't had that feeling in a long time folks. I've gotten >>pretty jaded about this stuff. >>Going a little further: While asking myself why the heck >>Gersten came back and usurped the CAUS helm from >>Barry Greenwood, after being gone for so long, I (we) >>discovered that he, or Greer, or both have been busy >>digging up witnesses to his FOIA documented military >>cases, including Malmstrom, from the >>Fawcett/Greenwood book, a book which detailed some >>of the verified information from the FOIA documents. (If >>anyone hasn't read it yet, you certainly ought to. You >>don't know what you're missing.) Obviously Gersten is >>convinced about this otherwise he'd be totally nuts to be >>involved with Greer going to congressmen, etc. to push >>for a hearing. So, it would appear to be an open and shut >>case to his legal mind. (Not that that's necessarily >>enough.) >>With these witnesses (I really want to see all of them) >>and these cases, either we've got a whole bunch of lying >>policemen, incompetent NATO military people, nuclear >>specialists, etc. out there, or more likely, we're sitting on >>top of a keg of something that ought to be looked at >>more seriously. I don't view the Belgium military as >>incompetent and I suspect that when we see all the >>witnesses testimonies tied together, at least _some_ of >>the "intelligent skeptics" are going to realize there's more >>to this than they ever dreamed possible. >>So Ed, definitely continue with your research. I would >>really like to help you with this but, I've got my own ax to >>grind, and I'm grinding it for all I'm worth. If I and others >>are successful, your job may be just a little easier. We >>need specialists in each area and those specialists need >>to work together in teams with each other and prove their >>cases. Just remember, no matter what, we all have to go >>through peer review before you can be taken seriously. >>You have to convince other people that are into the same >>specific case as yourself, then bring it forward to others. >>One thing I can guarantee: If humanity gets to the point it >>realizes we really have something flying around up there >>that's not any of ours, a lot of cases will eventually be >>reexamined. People are really going to want to know what >>the heck is going on. Abductions and cattle mutilations >>may not seem so far fetched and then we're going to have >>a little paranoia problemon our hands. (Just a little?) I can >>also guarantee John Velez and a few others will have a >>real smug look on their faces through it all. :-) >>Sincerely, >>Jerry Cohen >>PS I don't know if it is O.K. with you, but I would like to >>post this letter to Errol's List. If you'd rather I remove your >>name and address I could do that. I won't post it at all if it >>bothers you in any way, but I think it has some good points >>in it. - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:07:09 -0700 >From: ed gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >Subject: Re: AA CD set >To: CohenUFO <cohenufo@optonline.net> >Jerry, >I understand and you're free to post this on UpDates, as is. >Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: International UFO Petition - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:29:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:38:41 -0400 Subject: Re: International UFO Petition - Velez Hi All, I spent an hour discussing the petition with EBK on SDI Saturday night. I could post another lengthy appeal to everyone within earshot to go to the petition website, read it and sign it. But I won't. Sometimes 'less is more.' Here is a simple and direct appeal from someone I respect and I'm sure that many of you do too. I'll let her do all my 'hard sales' for me. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Petition I signed! Let's go fellow researchers and all people interested in getting something positive accomplished! Wendy Connors ---------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks Wendy. :) Saved me a lot of wear and tear on the fingers. Maybe if more people spoke out about it and started actively spreading the word, we'd have many more signatures on the petition than we do have. The 'showing' thus far has been poor. And I for one do not understand why. I'd actually be interested in hearing reasons why someone _wouldn't_ bother to sign it. Maybe it's my deodorant. I'd like to know. Regards, John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Apr > Apr 30 Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:29:45 -0500 (CDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:57:02 -0400 Subject: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience In a news item on CNN today, the National Science Foundation released a report on Americans' poor understanding and knowledge about science. The report found that many Americans believe in "pseudoscience" and that this is considered harmful; pseudoscience is cited as contributing to scientific literacy and the lack of critical thinking skills. In other words, the fact that 45% of Americans think that lasers work by focusing sound waves (as one question revealed) may be due to belief in pseudoscientific topics, not just simply a failure of science educators to teach scientific process in schools. Furthermore, only 54% of Americans know that it takes one year for the Earth to orbit the Sun. Is this because 60% of the population believe that "some people possess psychic powers or ESP," as the study found? The NSF study relied on CSICOP to provide its definition of pseudoscience, of course. This included: yogic flying, astrology, fire walking, voodoo, Uri Geller, alternative medicine, psychic hotlines and reincarnation, as well as UFOs. In the report, it is pointed out that: ............................................................ A sizable minority of the public believes in UFOs and that aliens have landed on Earth. (45% according to a 2000 poll in Popular Science.) In 2001, 30 percent of NSF survey respondents agreed that "some of the unidentified flying objects that have been reported are really space vehicles from other civilizations"..., and one-third of respondents to the Gallup poll reported that they believed that "extraterrestrial beings have visited earth at some time in the past." ............................................................ (The link to this is: http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind02/c7/c7s5.htm#c7s5l2) What is most interesting, however, is the NSF's rather arbitrary definition of what is and what isn't pseudoscience: ............................................................ Pseudoscience is defined here as "claims presented so that they appear [to be] scientific even though they lack supporting evidence and plausibility" (Shermer 1997, p. 33). In contrast, science is "a set of methods designed to describe and interpret observed and inferred phenomena, past or present, and aimed at building a testable body of knowledge open to rejection or confirmation" (Shermer 1997, p. 17). ............................................................ The reference is to: Shermer, M. 1997. Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time. New York: W.H. Freeman and Company. It is interesting that, in complete concordance with what Stan Friedman has pointed out in a MUFON article refuting Shermer's definition (available online at: http://www.mufon.com/zperceptions_pseudoscience.html the NSF's use of the definitions is remarkably inappropriate. In a review of current serious research and investigation into the UFO phenomenon, advanced ufological research is easily categorized as: "a set of methods designed to describe and interpret observed and inferred phenomena, past or present, and aimed at building a testable body of knowledge open to rejection or confirmation," defined as science by Shermer. The difficult word in the definition is "testable", and while ufologists can't test the ETH hypothesis as it applies to observed UFOs, they can test demographic data, witnesses' testimony and possible explanations for their viability, all acceptable as scientific endeavours. Similarly, it is easy to see where debunkers' comments about UFOs can often be shown to be "claims presented so that they appear [to be] scientific even though they lack supporting evidence and plausibility," exactly as pseudoscience is defined. (Friedman cites comments by Sagan, Asimov, menzel and Bova as examples.) If we look at the survey's results themselves, however, we also get an idea of where the scientific community is having difficulty in categorizing UFOs. The actual question the survey asked about UFOs was whether UFOs are space vehicles from other civilizations. But in the text of the report, the question's wording is cited as: "*some* of the unidentified flying objects that have been reported are really space vehicles from other civilizations." Semantically, there's a big difference there, asking if all or just some UFOs are extraterrestrial. But what wasn't asked was a question about alternative explanations. Are UFOs psychosocial phenomena, as suggested by many European ufologsists? Are they secret military experiments, as suggested by many manistream UFO investigators? The NSF, in effect, has forced ufology into an indefensible position by showing that many Americans believe UFOs are alien spaceships, something which is lacking incontrovertible proof. (Circumstantial proof is another matter.) Therefore, belief in UFOs is neatly classified as a pseudoscience, as defined by Shermer and CSICOP. However, this in no way defines investigative and research-centered ufology, which is simply the study of a widespread phenomenon. The NSF, representing the broad scientific community, has invalidated research into UFOs not by the scientific process, but by a definition which automatically excludes ufology from 'mainstream' science. Therefore, scientists are justified to ignore UFOs as a legitimate field of study and can express concern that the general public is foolish to believe in such nonsense, an attitude which can only further alienate the scientific community from the audience they claim to want to educate. As further indication that the NSF study was out of focus, it cited articles by CSICOP members and associates expressing concern that the X-Files TV show misinforms people about science, feeds the uninformed UFO subculture and "systematically purveys an anti-rational view of the world which, by virtue of its recurrent persistence, is insidious." That a television program as fanciful as the X-Files could be viewed as insidious is outlandish at best, and sad at the least. Ufologists have been accused of engendering poor understanding of science among Americans, whereas it seems that the scientific community and its milquetoast approach to public education is somehow faultless. Fortunately, the study noted that most Americans have their critical thinking skills intact. This will allow them to use their insight into the NSF's narrow view of UFOs, a phenomenon that deserves more objective study by true scientists. Nobody in particular