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   May

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  May 2002

  May 1:

   Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [26]
   Re: International UFO Petition - Bowden - Dave Bowden" [31]
   Secrecy News -- 04/30/02 - Steven Aftergood [148]
   CI: 5-1-02 - 5-Sided Cydonian Anomalies - Mac Tonnies [48]
   Re: International UFO Petition - Santana - Scott Santa [9]
   Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In - Eleanor White [40]

  May 2:

   Secrecy News -- 05/01/02 - Steven Aftergood [102]
   Filer's Files #18 - 2002 - George A. Filer [532]
   L.M. Krauss NYT Article 04-30-02 - Stanton Friedman [59]
   Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In - Dave Bowden [52]
   CCCRN News: Next Vancouver Crop Circle Lecture - Paul Anderson [58]
   Paradigm Research Group Update - May 1, 2002 - Stephen G. Bassett [144]
   30% Of US Believes ETs Visit - Stig Agermose [37]
   Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In - Eleanor White [105]
   Re: Paradigm Research Group Update 05-01-02 - Eric Morris [26]
   Nick Pope's Weird World May 2002 - Georgina Bruni [104]
   Black On Current State Of Ufology - Chris Rutkowski [20]
   Study Urges Caution On Mars Trip - UFO UpDates - Toronto [66]
   Houston, British Columbia Sighting - 03-21-02 - Brian Vike [72]
   Krauss NY Times Article - Stanton Friedman [129]
   Spielberg's 'Taken' Project - Steven Kaeser [64]

  May 3:

   Re: Nick Pope's Weird World 05-02 - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [31]
   Dave & Andy's Not So Weird World! - Andy Roberts [77]
   20 Million Year Old Map? - Karl Rotstan [151]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark - Jerome Clark [29]
   Re: Bad Astronomy - Jones - Sean Jones [124]
   Re: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project - Hall - Richard Hall [25]
   Re: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project - Bassett - Stephen G. Bassett [15]
   Re: International UFO Petition - Rimmer - John Rimmer [19]
   Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer - John Rimmer [14]
   Re: Krauss NY Times Article - Bassett - Stephen G. Bassett [35]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Randle - Kevin Randle [118]
   'Jonathan Reed' Exposed! - Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog [53]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [28]
   Secrecy News -- 05/02/02 - Steven Aftergood [110]
   New Terrace, British Columbia Sighting - Brian Vike [39]
   Close Encounters Of The Caucasus Kind - Stig Agermose [23]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 18 - John Hayes [414]
   Life at Little A'Le'Inn - Stig Agermose [114]
   Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed! - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [28]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [147]
   Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed! - Andersen - Kathleen Andersen [23]
   Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark - Jerome Clark [19]
   Re: Dave & Andy's Not So Weird World! - Hale - Roy Hale [18]
   Re: Krauss NY Times Article - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [139]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [26]
   Re: International UFO Petition - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [69]
   Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer - John Rimmer [19]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young/Black - Kenny Young [48]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young - Kenny Young [27]
   McMinnville UFO Fest This Weekend - Stig Agermose [28]
   HBCC UFO: Ottawa 04-17-02 Sighting - Brian Vike [13]

  May 4:

   Pascagoula Audio File (Hickson/Parker) - Wendy Connors [30]
   Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In - Dave Bowden [88]
   UFO Viewing Platform - Jerry Scovel [50]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [34]
   Prometheus - Another 'Invaluable' Contribution - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [46]
   Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In - Mac Tonnies [35]
   Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer - John Rimmer [7]
   Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart - Chaz Stuart [26]
   Re: Krauss NY Times Article - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [120]
   Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In - Eleanor White [113]

  May 5:

   Re: Bad Astronomy - Cohen - Jerry Cohen [270]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [46]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark - Jerome Clark [69]
   Re: Krauss NY Times Article - McCoy - GT McCoy [197]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [43]
   CCCRN News: Solved - Odd Field Pattern - Paul Anderson [40]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Fleming - Lan Fleming [43]
   Observer On Clark & Roberts Book - Stig Agermose [66]
   Roswell - An 'All-American' City? - Stig Agermose [31]
   Re: ... Belief In Pseudoscience - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [14]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young - Kenny Young [44]
   UFO UpDate:Cydonian Imperative: 05-05-02 Martian Biohazard - Mac
   Tonnies [54]
   More On Kreskin's UFO Predition - Stig Agermose [146]
   Re: ...Belief In Pseudoscience - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [39]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark - Jerome Clark [26]
   Re: Observer On Clark & Roberts Book - van Gemert - Jean van Gemert
   [22]
   NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Lan Fleming [59]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark - Jerome Clark [25]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [47]

  May 6:

   Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Friedman - Stantanton Friedman [97]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Randle - Kevin Randle [80]
   Budd Hopkins UFO Seminar Announcement - 5/18/02 - Intruders Foundation
   [46]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Kenny Young [46]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak - David Rudiak [116]
   Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - White - Eleanor White [17]
   Re: International UFO Petition - Bowden - Dave Bowden [25]
   Re: Observer On Clark & Roberts Book - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [60]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart - Chaz Stuart [12]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart - Chaz Stuart [22]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Randle - Kevin Randle [8]
   Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Rutkowski - Chris Rutkowski [27]
   'UFO Discussion Sites Invade Online World' - Stig Agermose [57]
   BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book - Stig Agermose [32]
   Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Clarke - David Clarke [74]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark - Jerome Clark [46]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark - Jerome Clark [53]
   Freeman Dyson Lecture Series at BNL - Address Removed By Request [8]
   Eras News: Weekly Briefing 05.06.02 - Paul Anderson [46]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Lavoie - Andrew Lavoie [44]
   The Jonathan Reed Hoax - Bill Hamilton [26]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [169]

  May 7:

   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Fleming - Lan Fleming [31]
   Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Fleming - Lan Fleming [23]
   Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Fleming - Lan Fleming [29]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young - Kenny Young [28]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [94]
   John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast - Wendy Connors [39]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak - David Rudiak [142]
   Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [100]
   Location Map & Count For Northern B.C. Sightings - Brian Vike [19]
   Re: 'UFO Discussion Sites Invade Online World' - - Sean Jones [22]
   Re: BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book - Jones - Sean Jones [22]
   Re: International UFO Petition - Eleanor White [13]
   Re: The Jonathan Reed Hoax - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [76]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark - Jerome Clark [48]
   July BUFOSC Conference - Eric Morris [38]
   Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed! - John Velez [43]
   Re: Pascagoula Audio File (Hickson/Parker) - Velez - John Velez [45]
   Re: P-Shaped Object? - Velez - John Velez [33]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Huthinson - Bruce Hutchinson [39]
   What Happened To Felix Moncla? - Bill Hamilton [78]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak - David Rudiak [214]
   Re: BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [21]
   Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Velez - John Velez [65]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart - Chaz Stuart [24]

  May 8:

   Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Clarke - David Clarke [54]
   The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud - Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog [94]
   Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [71]
   Re: Location Map & Count For Northern B.C. - Bill Hamilton [27]
   Re: What Happened To Felix Moncla? - White - Eleanor White [6]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [27]
   Re: P-Shaped Object? - Ledger - Don Ledger [42]
   Re: What Happened To Felix Moncla? - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [48]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young - Kenny Young [49]
   Secrecy News -- 05/07/02 - Steven Aftergood [82]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [194]
   Re: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project - Velez - John Velez [44]
   Re: What Happened To Felix Moncla? - Ledger - Don Ledger [57]
   Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [70]
   Something I Saw - Greg Sandow [62]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark - Jerome Clark [66]
   Re: Location Map & Count For Northern B.C. - Brian Vike [31]
   BBC Look East On New Rendlesham Evidence - Stig Agermose [25]
   Hasbro? - Chris Rutkowski [3]
   Re: International UFO Petition - Velez - John Velez [46]
   'Out Of The Shadows' - Andy Roberts [132]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Deardorff - Jim Deardorff [82]
   Filer's Files #19 - 2002 - George A. Filer [536]
   Re: Something I Saw - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [10]
   Re: Sean David Morton - Andersen - Kathleen Andersen [22]

  May 9:

   Cydonian Imperative: 05-08-02 - Face Ancillary Data - Mac Tonnies [24]
   Re: Something I Saw - Hall - Richard Hall [32]
   Re: Something I Saw - Velez - John Velez [31]
   Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment - Royce J. Myers - The
   Watchdog [40]
   Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud - Myers - Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog
   [15]
   McMinnville Gears Up For UFO Festival - Stig Agermose [113]
   Re: Sean David Morton - Gates - Robert Gates [43]
   UFO Watchers Snub Claims Of 'Paranoia' - Stig Agermose [26]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak - David Rudiak [181]

  May 10:

   CI: 05-09-02 - Another Mound Enigma - Mac Tonnies [37]
   'X-Files' Ends - Stig Agermose [125]
   Re: International UFO Petition - White - Eleanor White [58]
   National Media Sidestep UFOs - Stig Agermose [98]
   Cordell Hull And The "Creatures" - William E. Jones [410]
   Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today - Frank Warren [15]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 19 - John Hayes [381]
   Re: Something I Saw - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [67]
   Re: Something I Saw - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [51]
   On The NARA FOIA Quest - Larry Bryant [33]
   Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [39]
   Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - John Velez [59]
   Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment - Royce J. Myers - The
   Watchdog [53]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson - Bruce Hutchinson [123]
   Re: Something I Saw - Kaeser - Steve Kaeser [40]
   Re: Something I Saw - Sandow - Greg Sandow [36]
   Secrecy News -- 05/09/02 - Steven Aftergood [121]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #363 - Alfred Lehmberg [183]
   PEER Site Disappears - Will Bueche [59]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Sandow - Greg Sandow [25]
   Movies Out Of This World - Stig Agermose [124]
   Former 'Kink' Album Inspired By Personal ET Contact - Stig Agermose
   [73]
   Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment - - Robert Gates [42]
   Highlights of McMinnville UFO Festival - Agermose - Stig Agermose [22]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [24]
   Fairfield Co. Weekly: UFOs Revisited - Stig Agermose [378]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White - Eleanor White [40]
   Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Munoz - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [205]
   Re: Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today - Cox - Billy Cox [35]
   Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment - - Kathleen Andersen
   [27]
   SDI 05-04-02 - Reed - Christopher Kelly [35]
   Re: Movies Out Of This World - Jones - Sean Jones [30]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [29]

  May 11:

   Fortean Times UnConvention 2002 Report - Stig Agermose [240]
   Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment - - A. J. Gevaerd [15]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez - John Velez [143]
   Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment - - Royce J. Myers -
   The Watchdog [62]
   Mcminnville UFO Fest Comprehensive Program - Stig Agermose [123]
   Re: Something I Saw - McCoy - GT McCoy [58]
   Re: SDI 05-04-02 - Myers - Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog [34]
   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak - David Rudiak [254]
   Secrecy News -- 05/10/02 - Steven Aftergood [84]
   Review: Looking For Orthon by Colin Bennett - Mac Tonnies [23]
   Stereographic Elevation Measurements Of Mars Face - Lan Fleming [18]
   Fire The Government - Jerry Scovel [50]
   Re: 'X-Files' Ends - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [34]
   Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Myers - Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog [316]
   Re: Kudos To Billy Cox and Florida Today - Warren - Frank Warren [92]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert - Amy Hebert [43]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - van Hyum - Peter van Hyum
   [54]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White - Eleanor White [154]
   Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Hatch - Larry Hatch [46]
   Re: Mcminnville UFO Fest Comprehensive Program - - Larry Hatch [37]
   Re: Something I Saw - Velez - John Velez [53]
   Re: re Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez - John Velez [41]
   Re: Former 'Kink' Album... Velez - John Velez [39]
   New To The List - LaDonna [33]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Fleming - Lan Fleming [22]
   Re: Fire The Government - Clark - Jerome Clark [27]
   Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Myers - Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog [51]
   Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech? - Stig Agermose [130]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White - Eleanor White [23]

  May 12:

   Reed UFO Fraud - Munoz - Daniel Munoz [361]
   Louisiana MUFON In Baton Rouge? - Elaine Tassin [6]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 19 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [62]
   Re: 'X-Files' Ends - Maccabee - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [62]
   Re: Cordell Hull And The "Creatures" - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [22]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - - Bruce Maccabee [36]
   'After Half A Century It's RIP For UFOs' - Stig Agermose [98]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert - Amy Hebert [45]
   NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying Objects - Stig Agermose [106]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bowden - Dave Bowden [41]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - van Hyum - Peter van Hyum
   [29]
   Re: Fire The Government - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [107]

  May 13:

   Re: Louisiana MUFON In Baton Rouge? - Hall - Richard Hall [12]
   Re: New To The List - Hatch - Larry Hatch [58]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bott - Murray Bott [14]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall - Richard Hall [38]
   Re: Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech? - - Eleanor White [46]
   Re: SDI 05-04-02 - Kelly - Christopher Kelly [36]
   VeriChip Implants - Dave Bowden [28]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Fleming - Lan Fleming [14]
   CI: O5-12-02 City Square & Pyramid - Mac Tonnies [51]
   Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Andersen - Kathleen Andersen [49]
   Glenn's 'Fireflies' - Don Ledger [8]
   First Review Of 'Signs' Movie - UFO UpDates - Toronto [142]
   Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Myers - Royce J. Myers The Watchdog [631]
   Eras News: Weekly Briefing 05.13.02 - Paul Anderson [57]
   Flying Saucer Spotted in Distant Skies - GT McCoy [5]
   Re: Fire The Government - Clark - Jerome Clark [53]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall - Richard Hall [34]
   NASA Boldly Goes... On eBay - Sean Jones [86]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez - John Velez [100]
   Re: Fire The Government - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [157]
   EW: 05-13-02 Dark Matter Missiles Impact Earth - Kurt Jonach [38]
   Re: Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech? - - William H Evans [48]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Rimmer - John Rimmer [14]
   Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory - Nick Balaskas [60]
   An Informative Page About Lifters - William H Evans [4]

  May 14:

   Re: VeriChip Implants - Ledger - Don Ledger [31]
   Re: UFO Photographs As Physical Evidence - Kelly - Jim Kelly [39]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - - Josh Goldstein [155]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hyvonen - Minna Hyv=F6nen
   [50]
   1956 Movie 'UFO' and Ruppelt - Robert Barrow [144]
   A Tax Plan To (And From) Space - William H Evans [140]
   UFO Believer Jackson To Appear At ET Music Fest? - Stig Agermose [42]
   Re: Fire The Government - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [130]
   Re: Fire The Government - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [280]
   Re: Fire The Government - Brigham - Tim Brigham [28]

  May 15:

   Re: VeriChip Implants - Cameron - Cory Cameron [29]
   Hubble Telescope: Surprise Tool in Search for Life - Stig Agermose
   [100]
   Re: SETI Backers Seek Another Frontier - Agermose - Stig Agermose [109]
   Atlanti Retracts Support For 'Reed' - Bill Hamilton [85]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall - Richard Hall [22]
   Hum Rattles Lives In Indiana Town - Kenny Young [232]
   New At SHG And Project 1947 - Jan Aldrich [58]
   Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast - - Nick Balaskas [26]
   CI: 05-15-02 'Cydonia Hilton' - Mac Tonnies [50]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert - Amy Hebert [59]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert - Amy Hebert [66]
   Washington's Budget Cuts Put Europa Mission On Hold - Stig Agermose
   [99]
   Odds On Aliens - Louise Lowry [94]
   Extraterrestrials Created Life On Earth - SHnSASSY1@aol.com [168]
   Corn Circles And CIA/USAF Corona Spy Satellite - Stig Agermose [108]
   Lunatic Prices Paid For Extraterrestrial Acres - Stig Agermose [49]
   Re: Atlanti Retracts Support For 'Reed' - Royce J. Myers III - The
   Watchdog [27]
   Roswell & Alien Autopsy Notice - Dave Vetterick [28]
   Re: Fire The Government - Clark - Jerome Clark [146]
   Re: Fire The Government - Clark - Jerome Clark [34]

  May 16:

   HUFOBCC: Three Canadian Reports - 05-15-02 - Brian Vike [73]
   Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast - - Wendy Connors [33]
   Felder & Salvaille - UFO UpDates - Toronto [6]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - King - Tom King [104]

  May 15:

   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bowden - Dave Bowden [39]
   Secrecy News -- 05/15/02 - Steven Aftergood [97]
   Filer's Files #20 - 2002 - George A. Filer [529]
   May 17: History Channel On Roswell Crash - Stig Agermose [30]

  May 16:

   Congressional Alert By X-PPAC - Stig Agermose [23]
   'Flying Saucer' Spotted In Distant Skies - Stig Agermose [97]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 20 - Hayes - John Hayes [542]
   Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast - - Stanton Friedman
   [59]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall - Richard Hall [75]

  May 17:

   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez - John Velez [155]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez - John Velez [104]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez - John Velez [63]
   Stolen Documents - Joe McGonagle [10]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White - Eleanor White [13]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [129]
   Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast - - Wendy Connors [23]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert - Amy Hebert [40]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Acres - Dave Acres [40]
   Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast - - Stanton Friedman
   [34]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #364 - Alfred Lehmberg [94]
   Re: NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying - Nick Balaskas [46]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez - John Velez [65]
   Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast - - Wendy Connors [22]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez - John Velez [208]
   An Abduction Monitoring Idea - Eleanor White [27]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young - Bob Young [138]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #364 - Scovel - Jerry Scovel [55]

  May 18:

   Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz - GT McCoy [10]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bowden - Dave Bowden [82]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young - Bob Young [20]
   Secrecy News -- 05/17/02 - Steven Aftergood [102]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Rukowski - Chris Rutkowski
   [185]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Acres - Dave Acres [29]
   OZ UFO Images - Chris Beacham [6]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Jones - Sean Jones [36]
   Charles Donovan? - Larry Hatch [31]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [114]
   Kreskin [was: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?] - Stanton Friedman
   [19]
   Re: NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying - Eleanor White [33]
   Re: OZ UFO Images - Hatch - Larry Hatch [31]
   Alfred's Odd Observation #16 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [91]
   Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz - - Scott Caput [18]
   Re: Kreskin - Vike - Brian Vike [30]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [30]
   'Insiders From NASA Speculate' - Jerry Scovel [309]
   Power Outages & Stalled Cars [was: Are Photos And - Martin Shough [99]

  May 19:

   Re: Kreskin - Vike - Larry Hatch [43]
   [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Conway Costigan [28]
   Re: OZ UFO Image - Beacham - Chris Beacham [47]
   Re: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory - Bruce Maccabee [14]
   Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz - - GT McCoy [34]
   Re: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [15]
   New Fatima Book - Joaquim Fernandes [29]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - McCoy - GT McCoy [54]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Mancusi - Bruno Mancusi [22]
   CI: 05-19-02 New Image of 'Hollow' - Mac Tonnies [28]
   RPIT News - FW Pictures Reveal New Info - Neil Morris [79]
   Asking The Big Question - Christopher Kelly [94]
   UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?] - Sean Jones [55]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [246]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [63]

  May 20:

   UFO*BC Updates - 05-19-02 - Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC [28]
   Re: 'Insiders From NASA Speculate' - Gates - Robert Gates [218]
   Re: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [24]
   Re: UFO Stats - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [93]
   Re: UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad - Bill Hamilton [36]
   Re: UFO Stats - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [122]
   Re: NASA UFO Secrets - White - Eleanor White [50]
   Re: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever - Jan Aldrich [53]
   Re: Searching For Rudolph - Aubeck - Chris Aubeck [23]
   CCCRN News: 2001 Summary Report Now in Print - Paul Anderson [69]

  May 21:

   Eras News: Weekly Briefing 5.20.02 - Paul Anderson [74]
   Two UFO Sightings From India - 03-2002 - Louise Lowry [65]
   Re: UFO Stats - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [36]
   Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Costigan - Conway Costigan
   [42]
   Shag Harbour On eBay - Don Ledger [8]
   Kennedy Administration On Alien Race Question - Grant Cameron [204]
   Pravda - UFO Flies Over Perm Stadium - Stig Agermose [27]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Bob Young [209]
   Re: UFO Stats - Alexander - James Alexander [64]
   errace, British Columbia 03-2002 - Brian Vike [29]
   MIT Data: Gravitational Constant May Not Be - Stig Agermose [106]
   Re: UFO Stats - Jones - Sean Jones [117]
   Re: UFO Stats - Jones - Sean Jones [24]
   Re: UFO Stats - Jones - Sean Jones [73]
   Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Acres - Dave Acres [55]
   Re: UFO Stats - Ledger - Don Ledger [36]
   Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz - - Bob Young [20]
   Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Velez - John Velez [78]

  May 22:

   Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Warren - Frank Warren [29]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young - Bob Young [49]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young - Bob Young [52]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young - Bob Young [31]
   Re: UFO Stats - Warren - Frank Warren [56]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young - Bob Young [39]
   Re: NASA UFO Secrets - Velez - John Velez [34]
   Joe Daniels & J. A. Hennessey? - Joe McGonagle [11]
   Re: Bad Astronomy - Plait - Phil Plait [34]
   Re: UFO Stats - Friedman - Stan Friedman [46]
   Re: Searching For Rudolph - Velez - John Velez [52]
   Re: UFO Stats - Young - Bob Young [24]
   Strieber Has More Close Encounters - Stig Agermose [13]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Ledger - Don Ledger [74]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #365 - "mail.snowhill.com" [74]
   Bryant - FOIA Request - 05-22-02 - Larry W. Bryant [39]
   Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Bowden - Dave Bowden [32]

  May 23:

   Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction - Louise Lowry [61]
   Colombia: 'Spectacular UFO Video & Stills' - Louise Lowry [41]
   Filer's Files #21 - 2002 - George A. Filer [466]
   New Digital Images Of 'Chupacabras' - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [8]
   Re: Searching For Rudolph - Aubeck - Chris Aubeck [45]
   Re: UFO Stats - Ledger - Don Ledger [66]
   Indians Look To Ancient Texts For 'Stealth' Secrets - Stig Agermose
   [66]
   Secrecy News -- 05/22/02 - Steven Aftergood [98]
   RAF Cadets Learn To Spot & Report UFOs - Stig Agermose [17]
   CI: 05-22-02 Another Face-like Formation - Mac Tonnies [34]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - McCoy - GT McCoy [89]
   Re: Bottom Line On Walter Haut - Stacy - Dennis Stacy [27]
   Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - Stig Agermose [165]
   Re: NASA UFO Secrets - White - Eleanor White [65]
   Seattle Times: Northwest UFO Paranormal Conference - Stig Agermose
   [105]
   Re: UFO Stats - Ledger - Alfred Lehmberg [29]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 21 - John Hayes [385]
   Re: Colombia: 'Spectacular UFO Video & Stills' - - Vicente-Juan
   Ballester Olmos [13]
   Re: Bottom Line on Walter Haut - Connors - Wendy Connors [67]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Stan Friedman [27]
   More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers - Nick Balaskas [92]
   Re: UFO Stats - Ledger - Don Ledger [28]
   Terraforming Mars - GT McCoy [5]
   Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers - - John Velez [93]
   Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers - - Grant Cameron [79]
   Re: UFO Stats - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [48]
   Re: OZ UFO Images - Beacham - Chris Beacham [18]
   It Only Looks Like A UFO - Stig Agermose [60]
   CE: NCP-09: Oak Ridge Native Speak - An Introduction - Francis Ridge
   [217]
   Re: UFO Stats - Ledger - Don Ledger [44]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Stig Agermose [39]

  May 24:

   Re: Secrecy News -- 05/23/02 - Steven Aftergood [95]
   Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Sanchez - Jara Sanchez [22]
   Oberg On Hare's Story - Young - Bob Young [126]
   Re: Capitol UFOs - Hebert - Amy Hebert [42]
   European UFO Journal - Press Release - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos
   [71]
   Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction - - Larry Hatch [62]
   Re: OZ UFO Images - Beacham - Chris Beacham [9]
   Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers - - Nick Balaskas [65]
   Re: UFO Stats - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [69]
   Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers - - Martin Shough [34]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Film Review - Vetterick - Dave Vetterick [68]

  May 25:

   Re: UFO Stats - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [110]
   X-45 UCAV - Don Ledger [20]
   Secrecy News -- 05/24/02 - Steven Aftergood [80]
   Good Alien vs. Bad Alien - Grant Cameron [81]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Film Review - Vetterick - Mac Tonnies [41]
   Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers - - John Velez [54]
   Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction - - Larry Hatch [40]
   Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Sean Jones [22]
   Roswell UFO Festival 2002 - Stig Agermose [75]
   Two-Decade Media Fascination With UFOs Dwindling? - Stig Agermose [203]
   Condon & Cold War Loyalty Politics - Stig Agermose [597]
   Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction - - Josh Goldstein [83]
   Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction - - Virgilio
   Sanchez-Ocejo [20]

  May 26:

   Re: Alien Autopsy Film Review - Vetterick - Dave Vetterick [46]
   Another Mute In Argentine Field - Louise Lowry [54]
   Coffeeshop Encounter - Mac Tonnies [53]
   Re: Oberg On Hare's Story - Shough - Martin Shough [49]
   Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers - - Martin Shough [25]
   Re: UFO Stats - Alexander - James Alexander [25]
   Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden - Dave Bowden [32]
   Where's The Doctor? - Dave Bowden [8]
   Vast Oceans of Water Ice on Mars - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior
   [36]
   Re: Bad Astronomy - Cohen - Jerry Cohen [197]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Don Ledger [27]
   Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction - - Larry Hatch [69]
   Eras News: The Mars Initiative - Ice Oceans on Mars - Paul Anderson
   [53]

  May 27:

   Marston Moor? - Roy Hale [16]
   Re: Where's The Doctor? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [29]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Kevin Randle [47]
   Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Sean Jones [20]
   Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Jones - Sean Jones [54]
   SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Eleanor White [21]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Don Ledger [57]

  May 28:

   First ET 'Implant' Stories? - Gregory Gutierez [14]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young - Bob Young [11]
   Re: nknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Bruce Maccabee [104]
   New Improved NY 'Aliens?' Picture - Dave Acres [8]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Kevin Randle [31]
   Ocean On Europa Buried Too Deep To Reach? - Joe McGonagle [12]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Mac Tonnies [18]
   Fate - Beware the Dark Side - Stig Agermose [361]
   Voyager Newsletter No. 22 - James Easton [1174]
   BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face? - Stig Agermose [9]
   Eras News: Weekly Briefing 05.27.02 - Paul Anderson [66]
   Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed? - Kathleen Andersen [19]
   More On 'Reed' UFO Fraud - "THE WATCHDOG" [15]
   UFO UpDate: SDI 190 - New Laws Needed - Christopher Kelly [14]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [38]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White - Eleanor White [33]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Jan Aldrich [94]
   Re: Fate - Beware the Dark Side - Alexander - James Alexander [23]
   [canufo] Black Triangle Over Winnipeg Last Night - Chris Rutkowski [24]
   Re: Fate - Beware the Dark Side - Gonzalez - Luis R. Gonzalez [32]
   UFO Videoed Over Andorra - Louise Lowry [44]
   UFO Sighting Santurce, Puerto Rico - Louise Lowry SHnSASSY1@aol.com
   [51]
   Quantum Wormholes Could Carry People - Stig Agermose [66]
   Re: BC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face? - - Joe McGonagle [14]
   Re: New Improved NY 'Aliens?' Picture - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [19]
   Re: Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed? - Myers - Royce J. Myers III -
   The Watchdog [54]
   Re: SDI 190 - New Laws Needed - White - Eleanor White [20]
   EW: Mars Ice Ocean Update - Kurt Jonach [57]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Josh Goldstein [70]
   Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face? - Josh Goldstein [19]
   Re: Fate - Beware the Dark Side - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [41]
   Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Woods - Michael Woods [75]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Bowden - Dave Bowden [59]
   Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden - Dave Bowden [31]
   Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - - Nick Balaskas [37]

  May 29:

   Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face? - Mac Tonnies [16]
   Re: Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed? - Gates - Robert Gates [17]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Mac Tonnies [26]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young - Bob Young [35]
   Secrecy News -- 05/28/02 - Steven Aftergood [97]
   Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face? - GT McCoy [35]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young - Bob Young [38]
   Re: UFO Videoed Over Andorra - Olmos - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos
   [19]
   Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - White - Eleanor White [27]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Bruce Maccabee [60]
   Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden - Dave Bowden [36]
   Declassified Documents Go Online - Eleanor White [2]
   Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White - Eleanor White [165]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White - Eleanor White [74]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Kevin Randle [126]
   Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? - - Kevin Randle [52]
   Re: Black Triangle Over Winnipeg Last Night - - Bill Hamilton [40]
   Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face? - Joe McGonagle [36]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White - Eleanor White [28]

  May 30:

   Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face? - Sean Jones [12]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White - Eleanor White [67]
   Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Jones - Sean Jones [44]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [79]
   Confirmation That Life On Mars Was Found In 1976? - Nick Balaskas [17]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #366 - Alfred Lehmberg [216]
   Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - - Nick Balaskas [44]
   Second Annual NW UFO Paranormal Conference - Stig Agermose [19]
   Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden - Dave Bowden [61]
   Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Fleming - Lan Fleming [55]
   Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud - Royce J. Myers III - The
   Watchdog [30]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 22 - John Hayes [297]
   Filer's Files #22 - 2002 - George A. Filer [525]
   'Shockingly Close to the Truth' - A One Minute - Wendy Connors [57]
   Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud - - Alfred Lehmberg [58]
   CCCRN News: Hay Circles - Duncan, British Columbia - Paul Anderson [48]

  May 31:

   Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud - - Amy Hebert [14]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young - Bob Young [16]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Hale - Roy Hale [29]
   Writers & UFO Experiences? - Chris Aubeck [9]
   Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Woods - Michael J. Woods [73]
   NYT Sells Public Domain UFO Photos For $375 Each - Stig Agermose [30]
   CI: Oceans of Ice Found Beneath Martian Surface - Mac Tonnies [40]
   Mortellaro & Hopkins On Rense - 06-06-02 - Jim Mortellaro [11]
   Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud - - Royce J. Myers III -
   The Watchdog [34]
   CCCRN News: Grass Formations - Mansfield, Ontario - Paul Anderson [48]
   SDI - 189 On 'Global National' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [7]
   Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys' - Erik Landahl [7]
   Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud - - Alfred Lehmberg [41]
   Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud - - Alfred Lehmberg [44]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young - Bob Young [38]
   Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud - - Kevin Randle [41]
   Re: SDI - 189 On 'Global National' - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [32]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [43]
   Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys' - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [33]
   Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White - Eleanor White [19]
   Meteorological Factors in Unidentified Radar - Errol Bruce-Knapp [808]
   Secrecy News -- 05/31/02 - Steven Aftergood [94]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 1

                 Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:47:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 08:05:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Maccabee


 >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net>
 >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:49:43 -0600
 >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case Update


 >>From: Thiago L. Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
 >>To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:10:29 -0300 (BRT)
 >>Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case Update - Ticchetti


 >>The part you said that the disc wobbled, destroy all the
 >>skeptics that said that the objet was the planet Saturn.

 >I would say that any skeptic that said the Trindade Isle object
 >was Saturn is brain dead. I challenge any scientist on the
 >planet to prove to that the planet Saturn can be observed with
 >the naked eye during the noon hour. Any scientist who says it
 >can should certainly have their Degree voided and their
 >credentials shredded.

Not only is Saturn not visible in daytime, the rings are not
visible to the un-aided eye at any time. Also, of course, the
photo shows an object of large angular size... clearly not
Saturn. I doubt that any skeptic called it Saturn. Menzel called
it a fake, perhaps done by pre-exposing several plates of the
film to a model image, and then taking the second exposure
outdoors at the time of the sighting..... (<LOL> what a jerk!
Surely Menzel thought we were all idiots. But don't forget Rule
#1 for debunkers:

Any explanation is better than none!







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 1

                   Re: International UFO Petition - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden" <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:47:59 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 08:10:45 -0400
Subject: Re: International UFO Petition - Bowden


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:29:25 -0400
 >Subject: International UFO Petition

<snip>

 >--------------------------------------------------------------

 >Subject: Petition

 >I signed! Let's go fellow researchers and all people
 >interested in getting something positive accomplished!

 >Wendy Connors

 >--------------------------------------------------------------


 >Thanks Wendy. :) Saved me a lot of wear and tear on the fingers.
 >Maybe if more people spoke out about it and started actively
 >spreading the word, we'd have many more signatures on the
 >petition than we do have. The 'showing' thus far has been poor.
 >And I for one do not understand why.

 >I'd actually be interested in hearing reasons why someone
 >_wouldn't_ bother to sign it. Maybe it's my deodorant. I'd like
 >to know.


John,

It's not your deodorant, who can resist the great smell of Canal
No 5 ;-)

I signed the petition a couple of weeks back.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition/

It only took five minutes.

The thing about petitions is you have to keep waving them in
people's faces virtually on a daily basis before they get around
to signing them.

Anyone who really cares about getting the ball rolling should
sign now.

Let's get them numbers UP people!


Here's hoping,

Dave Bowden






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 1

                          Secrecy News -- 04/30/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:15:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 08:17:21 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/30/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 37
April 30, 2002


**      PLEASE FIX THE BROKEN NRO
**      NEW FISA ANNUAL REPORT
**      NEW CRS REPORTS ON PRES ADVISERS, DETAINEES, BW
**      HOMELAND SECURITY INFO SHARING
**      MORE NIXON MATERIALS


PLEASE FIX THE BROKEN NRO

"The National Reconnaissance Office knows how to build one hell
of an office building. They have the nicest office complex in
all of America, granite and marble, soaring stainless steel and
glass, and mahogany desks in private offices.... But where are
those revolutionary satellites that they promised us?"

That question was posed was Dave Thompson, CEO of the space
industry contractor Spectrum Astro, in an unusually revealing,
iconoclastic and blunt speech at the National Space Symposium in
Colorado Springs on April 11.

The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) is the intelligence
agency that designs, builds and operates U.S. intelligence
satellites.

"Over the past decade, the NRO has posted a sorry decline into
mediocrity...," Mr. Thompson said. "The NRO has suffered a
shocking decline in the technical performance of its satellites
over the past several years. They haven't told you about that
because it's been kept behind those doors."

Mr. Thompson went on to recite a litany of NRO technical
failures which have not previously been publicly disclosed.

"At an unclassified level, let me describe how serious this is,
and this is only the tip of the iceberg. Satellites, where the
primary mission payload failed a few days after launch.
  Satellites -- where components got so hot that they actually
melted causing mission failure due to thermal analysis failures,
something that we've known about since the 1960's. Satellites -
- which after spending billions of dollars in development cannot
perform their basic housekeeping functions, which we've been
demonstrating again since the 1960's. Satellites -- which
again, after spending billions of dollars in development, the
primary payload does not meet its basic performance
specifications. It's the NRO's own version of the Hubble Space
Telescope... Many satellites never even got launched as they
meandered their way through years of technical and program
management mismanagement. Yet no one was held accountable."

"I can't even describe many more technical disasters, as it
would be too revealing. Everything that I just described to
you, and much more, was just swept quietly under the rug."

"Please fix the broken NRO," Mr. Thompson concluded.

See the text of his speech here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/thompson.html

Other background on the NRO may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/nro/index.html


NEW FISA ANNUAL REPORT

"During calendar year 2001, 932 applications were made to the
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court for electronic
surveillance and physical search," according to a new annual
report to Congress on implementation of the 1978 Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

FISA authorizations are granted by a special court for purposes
of counterintelligence and counterterrorism investigations.

"The Court approved 934 applications," including two that had
been left over from the previous year. "No orders were entered
which denied the requested authority."

See the text of the new report, dated April 29 and released
today, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/04/fisa01.html

Instead of increasing as expected due to September 11, the total
number of FISA authorizations actually decreased from the
previous year's record high of 1012 applications granted. This
apparently reflects the fact that multiple authorizations can be
associated with a single investigation, and there is therefore
no direct correlation between the number of ongoing
investigations and the annual number of new FISA authorizations.


NEW CRS REPORTS ON PRES ADVISERS, DETAINEES, BW

The Congressional Research Service has recently published
several reports of current news interest.

"Presidential Advisers' Testimony Before Congressional
Committees: A Brief Overview" by Harold C. Relyea and Jay R.
Shampansky responds to the continuing controversy over whether
Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge ought to testify before
Congress.

Relyea and Shampansky provide the relevant legal and historical
background, citing numerous cases where presidential advisers
did testify, and others where they did not. A copy of the April
5 report is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31351.pdf

"Treatment of 'Battlefield Detainees' in the War on Terrorism"
by Jennifer Elsea examines the Bush Administration's decision
not to treat Taliban and Al Qaeda detainees as Prisoners of War.
  See that April 11 report here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31367.pdf

Unlike the US, "Britain has decided to treat al Qaeda and
Taliban fighters captured by its forces in Afghanistan as
prisoners of war and turn them over to the interim Afghan
government, underscoring differences between Britain and the
United States over how to deal with the captives under
international law," the Washington Post reported today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5114-
2002Apr29.html

"Preventing Proliferation of Biological Weapons: U.S. Assistance
to the Former Soviet States," by Michelle Stem Cook and Amy F.
Woolf, dated April 10, is available here:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RL31368.pdf


HOMELAND SECURITY INFO SHARING

The Homeland Security Information Sharing Act, a bill introduced
in the House last week, would promote the sharing of homeland
security information -- including classified information --
  between federal intelligence and law enforcement agencies and
state and local entities.

The bill notes that classified information can be shared either
by granting security clearances to appropriate state and local
personnel, or else by declassifying the information, redacting
it, or otherwise adapting it for dissemination.

The text of the bill, which was announced in February but only
introduced on April 25, is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_cr/hr4598.html


MORE NIXON MATERIALS

The National Archives and Records Administration will open
another 107,200 pages of Nixon Administration records beginning
on May 6.

"These newly declassified documents are from four series:
President Nixon's Trip Files; Alexander Haig's Chronological
Files; Alexander Haig's Special Files; and Harold H. Saunders'
Middle East Negotiations Files," according to an April 29 NARA
press release. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/04/nara042902.html

John Dean, the former Nixon White House counsel, claimed that he
knows the identity of Deep Throat, the legendary source for the
Washington Post's Watergate coverage, and said that he will name
Deep Throat in an article to be published in Salon.com on June
17. See:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/04/30/DD134882.DTL


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the
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Secrecy News is archived at:
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_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 1

                   CI: 5-1-02 - 5-Sided Cydonian Anomalies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:01:00 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:50:28 -0400
Subject: CI: 5-1-02 - 5-Sided Cydonian Anomalies



The Cydonian Imperative
5-1-02

Five Sided Features in Cydonia
by Mac Tonnies

See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

[image]

The D&M Pyramid compared to Mound "E." Image courtesy Lan
Fleming.

SPSR member Dr. Horace Crater forwarded me the above collage,
assembled and scaled by NASA subcontractor Lan Fleming. The
comparison shows that the basic morphology of the D&M Pyramid
and Mound "E" are intriguingly similar, if not identical. Mound
"E," as photographed by the Mars Global Surveyor, appears five-
sided, just as the D&M appeared to Viking in the 1970s.

This discovery is thought-provoking, as the two features differ
greatly in size. While the D&M was readily apparent in the
Viking photos, Mound "E" consisted of just a few pixels.
Geologically, they are two entirely different types of
formations. Therefore it seems unlikely that both shapes were
formed by sheer chance, as a geomorphological interpretation
would have to invoke two seperate agents to account for the same
shape reproduced at radically different scales on the Martian
surface. On the other hand, if the D&M and Mound "E" are
artificial structures, then only once agent needs to be
proposed: intelligence.

[image]

The five-sided Main City Pyramid.

But that's not all. As observed on this site as well as in the
new article in the online journal New Frontiers in Science, the
Main City Pyramid (alternately known as the "Starfish Pyramid,"
for obvious reasons) also boasts a five-sided, faceted
structure. Is this another bizarre coincidence or further
evidence of a redundant design at work in the Cydonia complex?

Editorial comment:

So far we have detected three bilaterally symmetrical five-sided
formations clustered around the Face. This helps move the
Artificiality Hypothesis out of the arena of "seeing faces" and
firmly into the realm of statistical analysis. For example, how
common are symmetrical five-sided "pyramids" elsewhere on Mars?
To date, none have been found. Are the D&M, Mound "E" and Main
City Pyramid the result of wind-faceting? If so, what are the
chances of such faceting producing uncannily similar shapes in
the immediate vicinity of the Face, which exhibits a distinctly
different morphology?

As the saying goes: "The first time is happenstance; the second
time is coincidence; the third time is enemy action." In this
case, "enemy action" just might equate to intelligent design.

-end-







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   May > May 1

                  Re: International UFO Petition - Santana

From: Scott Santa <ssanta@neo.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:41:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:18:55 -0400
Subject: Re: International UFO Petition - Santana


Thank you for letting me know of the petition..... I had no idea
that this particular petition was being offered.

I have signed other petitions - Larry Bryant's.

Actually came across this one by accident. So maybe the poor
showing is not due to lack of interest, but lack of exposure?

Anyhoo, I signed the petition, and will spread the word in my
circle of influence, and hope for the best.


Regards,

Scott







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                    Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:13:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 15:38:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In


 >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
 >To: updates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:29:45 -0500 (CDT)
 >Subject: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

 >In a news item on CNN today, the National Science Foundation
 >released a report on Americans' poor understanding and knowledge
 >about science. The report found that many Americans believe in
 >"pseudoscience" and that this is considered harmful;
 >pseudoscience is cited as contributing to scientific literacy
 >and the lack of critical thinking skills. In other words, the
 >fact that 45% of Americans think that lasers work by focusing
 >sound waves (as one question revealed) may be due to belief in
 >pseudoscientific topics, not just simply a failure of science
 >educators to teach scientific process in schools. Furthermore,
 >only 54% of Americans know that it takes one year for the Earth
 >to orbit the Sun. Is this because 60% of the population believe
 >that "some people possess psychic powers or ESP," as the study
 >found?

Psychic powers have been demonstrated over and over again, and I
don't mean theatrically. The problem conservative scientists
face is that in the "new science", the old scientific method
breaks down, in that it requires all experimenters be able to
duplicate the results in order for an event to be deemed valid.

Trouble is, there is a class of events where the outcome depends
on who the experimenter is. NSF is conveniently "forgetting"
about that class of events, and I am certain that every member
of NSF, if asked in private, would know very well about such
events, and the fact that this "participatory universe" concept
is gaining wide acceptance.

Included are all the often repeated paranormal phenomena, as
well as some successful free energy demonstrations, like cold
fusion.

I pray that UFO researchers and activists will not be swayed by
what is (my opinion) blatant disinformation and an attempt to
keep the lid on many research fields including UFOs.

"Psycho-social phenomena" don't show up on radar or burn circles
where the "psycho-social phenomenon landed" or shut down ICBM
control systems.


Eleanor White

Hamilton ON







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   May > May 2

                          Secrecy News -- 05/01/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:55:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 03:28:35 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/01/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 38
May 1, 2002


**  LEAKS TO THE PRESS ILLEGAL -- IN CHINA
**  NAS PRES ON THE SECURITY THREAT TO SCIENCE
**  SECRETARY POWELL ON OPENNESS
**  INDUSTRIAL SECURITY LETTER ISL02-L1
**  CORRECTIONS


LEAKS TO THE PRESS ILLEGAL -- IN CHINA

One way to develop an appreciation for freedom of the press is
to envision what its loss would mean. A new formulation of press
restrictions issued by the government of the People's Republic
of China is quite useful for this purpose.

The latest PRC "Regulation on Management of Publications"
includes a daunting list of items whose publication is
prohibited, naturally including those "which leak state secrets
[or] endanger national security."

Also verboten are articles that "damage national honor and
interests"; "publicize cults and superstitions"; "disrupt public
order and undermine social stability"; "endanger social ethics
or outstanding national cultural traditions," and much, much
more.

"When exercising freedom of the right of publishing, citizens
... must not undermine the interests of the state...," the
regulation instructs.

See the December 2001 regulation, newly translated last month by
the Foreign Broadcast Information Service, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/04/xin123101.html

A U.S. Department of Justice report to Congress on the need for
new measures to combat leaks of classified information to the
media was imminent but not yet available on the afternoon of May
1.


NAS PRES ON THE SECURITY THREAT TO SCIENCE

"I am worried about a movement to restrict publication that has
been proceeding quietly but quickly in Washington," said Bruce
Alberts, president of the National Academy of Sciences in a
speech at the academy's annual meeting this week.

"Some of the plans being proposed could severely hamper the U.S.
research enterprise and decrease national security," he said.
"New administrative rules are being seriously considered for
unclassified scientific and technological research -- including
fundamental, basic research -- that deals with so-called
'critical research technologies.' It is being suggested that
every manuscript resulting from work supported by federal funds
be cleared by a federal project officer before being published,
with serious penalties for violations. Another rule could
prevent any foreign national from working on a broad range of
projects."

In sum, "The possibility of excessive restrictions on scientific
publication, motivated by security concerns, [poses a] clear
threats to science today...," Alberts said.

His April 29 speech is linked from here:

http://www.nationalacademies.org/topnews/#0429

The term "critical research technology" mentioned by Dr. Alberts
appears in a recent draft DoD directive that is available here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/04/dod5200_39r_dr.html


SECRETARY POWELL ON OPENNESS

America depends on its foreign service officers to convey to the
world the value of "openness," said Secretary of State Colin
Powell in a recent swearing-in ceremony for new State Department
personnel.

"Every day, as you do your jobs, people will be watching you...
Do you represent openness? ... Do you communicate by your
actions, by your voice, by your way of going about your
business, that openness that is so characteristic of the
American way?"

See Secretary Powell's March 1 speech here:

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2002/8618.htm


INDUSTRIAL SECURITY LETTER ISL02-L1

The Defense Security Service has issued a new "industrial
security letter" to advise defense contractors of current policy
issues concerning the protection of classified information in
industry. See the April 22 publication here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/nispom/isl02-1.pdf


CORRECTIONS

The Homeland Security Information Sharing Act was
mischaracterized in the April 30 issue of Secrecy News. The bill
was originally introduced in late February as H.R. 3825. It was
reintroduced on April 25 as H.R. 4598 following a change in the
definition of "homeland security information."

"Critical Program Information (CPI)" was incorrectly described
as a new information control category in the April 25 Secrecy
News. It is not new. It has been in use since at least 1997 when
it appeared in DoD Directive 5200.39 as a successor to
"Essential Program Information, Technologies, and/or Systems
(EPITS)."


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the
message: subscribe secrecy_news


OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691






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                          Filer's Files #18 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:10:39 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 03:31:00 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #18 - 2002


FILER'S FILES #18-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
May 1, 2002, Majorstar@AOL.COM.
Webmaster: Chuck Warren http://www.filersfiles.com.

TOP UFO SIGHTINGS: STS 109 anomalies, New Hampshire disc, New
York boomerang, New Jersey star, Florida moving lights, Ohio
disc, Alabama disc, Wisconsin asteroid, Illinois 14 UFOs,
Missouri silver oblong, Oklahoma disc, Colorado mothership,
California triangle, Washington boomerang, Canada crop circle,
Argentina mutilations, UK photo, Italy 700 sightings, Pacific
Ocean Sunrise. Hunt for Zero Point book review.

SHUTTLE STS 109 STRANGE ANOMALY MAKES 90 DEGREE TURN

In reviewing the clip of the space walk incident from STS-109
Jeff Challender, believes the anomaly made a 90 degree left
turn! He says, "I couldn't believe my eyes, I must've played the
tape over and over at least a hundred times! I just put it in a
loop mode and let it play! "That event also included a high
speed pass by the same, or similar object, originating from the
point where the first one disappeared. I feel that this event is
the most important evidence for unknowns since the STS-96
footage of three years ago. I'm going to start quoting some of
the astronauts and cosmonauts that have seen stuff. You never
said they were alien just that something not ice was moving by.
I believe the Shuttle cameras focus everything from a few inches
away until infinity. Whatever is there is in focus except within
a couple of inches from the lens. Anyone can pretty well pick
out ice crystals compared to something bigger. The Astronauts at
Kennedy Space Center indicated the Hubble repair now provides
much clearer images. They are seeing many new galaxies. Thanks
to Jeff Challender.

NEW HAMPSHIRE DISK CRAFT WITH ROTATING LIGHTS

NASHUA -- The witness reports seeing a circular disk that had
pulsating lights on both sides that definitely seemed to
alternate sides and make a circular motion on April 16, 2002. He
says, "I was on my deck with my wife at 10:24 PM, last night and
we were looking up at the stars, the Little Dipper in
particular. I saw something that seemed to be circular or disk
shaped and had yellowish/orange lights that pulsated in a
circular motion around the object. There were no lights in the
front or back of the disk. There were about four or five "panels
of individual light" on each side and went like I said in a
clockwise direction around the object, with only one panel lit
at one time. The object was about the size of two full moons
when the moon is high in the sky. It traveled a large distance
across the sky in 3 to 4 seconds, which is the entire duration
of the sighting. It traveled the distance of maybe 30 full moons
in a straight line and seemed to vanish. It made no sound at all
and almost appeared translucent, the lights were the only things
I saw. At first I thought it was a meteor grazing the
atmosphere, but when my wife also saw the pulsating lights, it
seemed to be a craft, not a meteor. The object seemed to vanish
into thin air. I had an unobstructed view in the direction it
was traveling when it disappeared. My wife confirmed the lights
were pulsating. I am also within four miles of a small airport
and the FAA tracking center for the East Coast. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com. A similar appearing
craft can be seen at http://www.filersfiles
.com/files/2002/index.php

NEW YORK BOOMERANG

BUFFALO -- The witness an amateur astronomer for 20 years
reports he was observing the new planet configuration on April
18, 2002, at 9:45 PM. During his observations he states, "This
seven light boomerang shaped formation appeared out of the
southeast moving northwest; as I looked closer, I thought it may
be a formation of jets from the Niagara Falls Air Base." The was
one craft darkly illuminated that made no sound, There were
seven white lights, a bit brighter than a normal magnitude star
lights moving like a flock of geese. It faded from view after
about 15 seconds, just as it appeared. I'm still upset. The
angle of elevation was about 30 degrees. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com.

NEW JERSEY QUICKLY MOVING STAR LIKE LIGHTS

BYRAM --The witness reports, "My wife and I were watching the
moon and stars above northwestern New Jersey on April 16, 2002,
when we noticed a particularly bright star moving slightly in
the sky." It was visible through some tree branches at first, so
we changed position for a clearer view (thinking it might be the
tree branches giving the appearance of movement). It maintained
its pattern of movement; slightly vertical and slightly
horizontal, and would periodically flash blue and red. We don't
believe it could have been an airplane, since it was hovering in
position; a plane would have visibly moved across the sky. I
went into the house and got our video camera, and we taped the
object for 10 minutes or so, zooming in as much as 32x. With the
zoom on, we could see it growing in size and then shrinking
suddenly, as if it were "pulsing." We taped our house and lights
visible from the World Trade Zone for reference. After 10 to 15
minutes we went back inside. Fifteen minutes later I went back
to look for the object and it was gone. I filed a police report
around 10:00 PM, after checking the Internet to see if it might
have been a planet or other conspicuous object. NUFORC

STERLING -- A 41 year old female witness who works as a manager,
reports seeing a small bright light dip low, arc up, and
disappear in only three seconds on April 5, 2002, at 6:55 PM.
The object was star like flying at 1000 feet and moving very
quickly. Its actual size was 11 to 30 feet and it appeared
white, or grey_lead_silver. The sky was overcast. Thanks to
MUFON Headquarters.

FLORIDA DISK CIRCLES THEN EXPLODES

MELBOURNE BEACH -- At sunset, an object was seen at nearly 90
degrees, (straight up) that was a bright bluish sphere on April
18, 2002. The sphere had a bright pinpoint object orbiting
around it for about a five-second period. At 8:11 PM, the sphere
exploded, in a shower of lights, like fireworks, except very
high in sky. Binoculars and a telescope were being used to see
the orbiting point, and the main object looked like a bright
star or planet. The witness stated, "I could see the explosion
through binoculars, there was falling glowing debris, then
nothing." Thanks to NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com.

ALABAMA DISK

BIRMINGHAM -- The witness reports, "There was a disk hovering
about 20,000 feet in the air on April 3, 2002, at 9:36 PM. It
was not moving forward or backwards, just hovering." A disk was
hovering, then disappeared and reappeared. Suddenly there was a
flash and it disappeared again. It started to move a bit but
then zoomed away and disappeared. I stood in the same place for
a couple of minutes hoping to see it again and sure enough I
did, but this time for about five seconds. The witness stated,
"It was hovering and then suddenly there was a flash where the
disk was, and then after the flash it wasn't there. Thanks to
Peter Davenport NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com.

OHIO OBJECT FLIES OVERHEAD

HILLIARD -- At 8:30 PM, an "object" rose from behind a house, as
we were facing the north on April 18, 2002. At first, the
witnesses thought it was a helium balloon. The wife said, "Do
helium balloons rise that fast?" and I told her that I thought
that it must be a "fresh balloon." The object moved overhead and
followed a very linear path towards the north. The witnesses
watched it until it went out of site. The entire episode lasted
for about a minute. Thanks to NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com.

WISCONSIN SLOW MOVING ASTEROID

UFOWisconsin reports the witness was watching TV at about 10:30
PM, on April 8, 2002, with one of his friends. He says, "My TV
is next to a picture window so I can usually see a lot of the
outside, which turns out to help me later in my report. He
states, "I was getting up to go to bed and I saw something
strange in the sky out my window that looked like an asteroid,
but a lot lower and moving at a much slower pace." At first, I
didn't think anything of it, but when it didn't go away for
about a minute, I kept watching. It was headed to the east,
towards the city. We quickly put on our jackets and went outside
to watch it. After another minute, it stopped in mid air about 8
miles away and broke into two separate parts, and disappeared.
It was pretty weird. Submission by Stephen Bayer Thanks to
UFOWisconsin. http://www.ufowisconsin.com/

ILLINOIS FOURTEEN UFOs SIGHTED

CHICAGO -- On Sunday, April 14, 2002, at about 5:00 PM, the male
witness was cooking food on his backyard barbecue grille in a
residential neighborhood, while his family and friends sat
around talking. The witness states, "While grilling outdoors my
friends and I noticed a cluster of stars or satellite-looking
objects flying very high and apparently very fast in the skies
above Chicago." At first my buddy noticed three tiny dots of
light bright enough to be seen against the cloudless blue sky.
Then we started noticing more of these dots of light. The dots
were traveling together, heading north, and we quickly counted a
total of 14 star-looking things ripping along super-high-up.
They were difficult to see, but we all agreed we saw them
regardless of what we'd been smoking." "These objects flew in no
regular pattern and, although most flew at a relatively constant
speed, a few of the objects would zip from behind and on ahead
of the rest. This all happened pretty fast, and we were all
feeling like, what the hell are those things! I have never seen
anything like what I saw Sunday." Thanks to UFO Roundup Vol. 7,
#17 April 23, 2002, Editor: Joseph Trainor
http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/

MISSOURI SILVER OBLONG UFO

LONE ELK COUNTY PARK -- "Bicycle Bob" Soetebier and his wife had
a UFO sighting just before 1:00 PM on Monday, April 15, 2002.
They were returning from the annual Ozark UFO Conference in
Eureka Springs, Arkansas. They were traveling east on I-44, a
mile west of Peerless Park in St. Louis County. Bob reports my
wife Dawn Vohsen, was driving and looking upward and said, "Look
out your passenger-side window and tell me what you see? All I
could see was trees. She said, "I see a large round object that
was dark gray with a silver reflective edge." It was as big as a
silver dollar held at arm's length. The sun was slightly behind
us in a clear blue sky with a fair wind. She also said, "Its
going to pass right over or in front of the car -- from right to
left -- and that I should watch to see if I could see anything."
Only a few seconds later, we were on the flat portion of I-44
with a break in the trees on the left/north side of the highway.
I immediately spotted a highly reflective, glaringly silver,
object seemingly "hovering" in the distance. The object was
oblong -- about an inch long at arm's length -- and very thick.
It was much thicker (at least two or three times) than the
fuselage of an airplane. It had no appendages, or wings, at all.
Since we we're traveling at highway speed in the car, the object
may have been moving at an equal pace in relation to the speed
of the car. However, I did not detect any movement on the
object's part in relation to the ground. But, the object was
well above the background scenery -- between 20 to 30-degrees in
elevation, with clear blue sky all around it -- so there was no
easy reference point. I only caught sight of the object for 2 or
3 seconds before an additional clump of trees obscured it from
view. It was only another couple of seconds before we passed
that final clump of trees and the object was suddenly no where
to be seen! It was not seen again. Dawn was not able to look
over in time to see the object that I saw on the north side of
the highway. Thanks to Bob Soetebier St. Louis County, Missouri

OKLAHOMA DISK WITH PORTALS

GRAND LAKE -- Jean Seifried wrote that on April 27, 2002, about
10:45 PM, I received a call from Mr. X, one of my UFO watcher's.
He was out at Grand Lake O'The Cherokee watching a UFO for about
two hours searching the coastline. It was a round object
hovering just above the shoreline and about 100 feet inland
three miles south of Sail Boat Bridge. The UFO appeared to have
a row of round portals around the outer edge each spaced maybe
ten feet apart, but they were not lit up, although they may have
been some objects or equipment, rather than portals. The UFO had
a red bottom and a blue top, a possible reflection of the red
and blue lights revolving around it. He was observing from a
high hill overlooking a large horse-shoe-shaped cove on the
lake, and the UFO was below him. He watched balls of light leave
from a hole that opened in the top. They zigzagged back and
forth along the edge of the water in large 100 feet or more,
zigzags, "like they were looking for something in a military
search pattern. The larger UFO followed and then moved 500 feet
back from the shore and when it got to the eastern point of the
cove it moved toward over the balls of light. He yelled, "Hold
it! it's coming in to pick them up. There they go into the thing
from the bottom, up into it. Oh, oh. It's leaving. It's going
up, straight up, fast!" There was a big flash from the bottom of
the craft just before it began to rise up, "like maybe it was
revving up for the assent."

By this time my husband Richard and I had reached the front of
our porch to look. Mr. X said, "Look just to the left of the big
dipper. It's almost gone." We were looking but at first we saw
nothing in the clear sky. Suddenly we saw a slow but short
"strobe-quality" flash just a bit larger than the largest
planets. Then ten seconds later another one higher and further
north than the first. Then six seconds later, another one, until
we saw five in all, moving north and up to the left side of the
dipper. Mr. X was exclaiming something with each blink, just as
we were. We were obviously watching the same thing from perhaps
a hundred miles distance. The light was definitely not an
aircraft light and was brilliant and irregular in timing of the
flashes, each one becoming a bit dimmer than the last. Richard
saw it as less than brilliant white, more cream color light. But
clearly we all were watching the same thing. Thanks to Jean &
Richard Seifried seifried@ipa.net Eureka Springs, Arkansas 72632

COLORADO MOTHERSHIP PASSES OVER COUPLE'S CAR

SAN JUAN MOUNTAINS -- Anne Miller of the Star Beacon reports
that a young woman in her 20s, whose parents she knows, told me
about a dramatic April 4, 2002, UFO sighting in Southern
Colorado. The woman and her boyfriend were driving home from
Durango to Pagosa Springs at 9:45 PM, when they saw a gigantic
ball of light over the San Juan Mountains near Chimney Rock. The
woman said it was terribly bright, and difficult to watch for
very long. It stayed in one spot for five minutes and appeared
to be a huge disc with an incredibly bright light. The woman
said. "We thought it was really big - at least the size of a
football field, twice as large as a full moon and was many times
larger than a normal airplane." "Other car lights were coming at
us," explained the woman, "and as soon as we saw headlights the
UFO would turn into something like a plane's blinking lights."
She said, "It was as though the UFO were trying to disguise
itself, and the strange thing was no car ever passed us on the
highway and we never saw what happened to the cars."

We felt like we were on the highway by ourselves. We watched for
10 to 15 minutes but we didn't pull over and just continued
driving. "We both kept getting surges of weird energy, that were
like huge rushes the whole time we saw it," she said. "We felt
really weird since it was so powerful and I was almost crying."
"The UFO was kind of greenish-blue with red lights on it," the
woman added. "There were little ships hovering above and below
it." "The object approached and flew right over our car and I
could see hundreds and hundreds of windows on it," said the
woman. Then it just moved on, and we didn't see it anymore. The
next day she called her parents and told them about the
sighting. I asked, "If there had been any missing time, but she
said no, they got home at the time they expected." However,
there was one incident worth mentioning. The woman had been
pregnant, and just a few days after the sighting she experienced
a miscarriage. Whether the miscarriage was due to the energy
surges during the sighting or something completely unrelated is
not known. Thanks to Anne Miller Editor/Publisher Earth Star
Publications: Home of The Star Beacon (May 2002 issue)
http://www.earthstarpublications.com ulrichac@tds.net

CALIFORNIA FLYING TRIANGLE

BAKERSFIELD -- On March 29, 2002, two witnesses reported seeing
a Flying Triangle at 9:30 PM, with three bright lights on the
front. The is the second witness's report, "My boyfriend and I
were driving south on I5 when he saw a bright light in the air.
We drove south towards the light and saw this object that had
three very bright lights on the front. The craft was diamond
shaped and dark gray color with a red light. It would make very
sharp turns that no airplane I have ever seen could have made.
It hovered on the north bound side of the freeway and then would
float down the side of the freeway, over a field and turned very
sharply. I thought the object was trying to land. It looked like
it was having troubles. The belly of the craft had creases where
it was put together. After leaving the area a highway patrolman
was seen going at least 100 mph north bound towards the object.
Many people saw this object on the Easter weekend. We weren't
driving fast, maybe 55 mph and traffic was bumper to bumper so
there were many witnesses. Thanks to NUFORC.

WASHINGTON STEALTHY BOOMERANG

ELLENSBURG/THORP -- On April 5, 2002, the witness reports seeing
a gray painted boomerang shape with rounded wing tips that was
not overly large. The craft was totally silent even though it
was flying quite low enough to hear engines at 10:24 PM. The
witness deliberately waited to see if an after-sound" could be
heard. If the heading was maintained it would put it left of
Seattle/Kent area. The craft had standard aircraft running
lights plus 2 or 3 extras ("clear") that lit up most of
undercarriage allowing an excellent view of the shape. The craft
lacked a standard cockpit and had no tail or tail boom(s). The
clear lights gave no indication of landing light(s) but rather
of overlarge regular "house" lights. There was no forward
"sweep" lights. The craft was flying under 2000 feet, probably
just under 1500 feet. The estimated size would allow three
personnel, if lying down in the craft. It seemed thin! More like
an unmanned glider that had a power source of some type. In
summery; this appeared man-made, stealth, possibly an unmanned
aircraft that was confusing and deceptive to the eye. It passed
well over the surrounding hills/ridges. The witness had the
impression it was a US or Canadian stealth aircraft. Thanks Red
Elk Med./Wakian and Peter Davenport NUFORC
http://www.ufocenter.com.

CANADA PILOT REPORTS ODD FIELD PATTERN

PIKE LAKE, SASKATCHEWAN -- CCCRN NEWS, Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network reports an odd field pattern was reported
yesterday by pilot Niels Koehncke, a few miles north of Pike
Lake, about 15 miles south of Saskatoon. He and Monique Mayer
discovered the strange pattern while flying in their Cessna the
previous evening, April 27, 2002. The pattern is an unusual long
series of odd pointed / angular shapes, some of which appear
roughly symmetrical. The field is apparently still just stubble
at this time of the year, so just what these shapes may be is
unclear. Monique told CCCRN that they had not seen anything like
it before so she took digital photos. Thanks to the pilot and
CCCRN assistant John Erickson for this report. Copies of photos
at: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/pikelake02photos.h
tml Thanks to CCCRN News the Canadian Crop Circle Research
Network,

ARGENTINA MUTILATED ANIMALS AND NOCTURNAL LIGHTS

SALLIQUELO -- A few days ago strange lights appeared in the
night skies over Saliquell=F3, Province of Buenos Aires, and in
the morning cattle ranchers of the area found three mutilated
bovines showing signs of having undergone a surgical
intervention with unusual implements. A veterinarian told local
media that the incisions "are strange ones in which some sort of
heating element appears to have been used." The news was
broadcast at the national level on Saturday through Cronica TV,
which took images from the local cable access channel, showing
images of the animals and a technician named Daniel, who
analyzed one of the cases, providing details on the strange
event. According to the televised report, the animals were found
by the owners of rural premises near Salliquelo, a small city
located some 80 miles east of the Pampan locality of Anchorena,
after "strange lights" were reported in the sky. These bovine
deaths were attested to by local police. A veterinarian
inspected the abnormal carcasses, "They present strange cuts, as
though resulting from an intense heat source. The skin is burned
along the edges of the cuts, and the absence of blood in veins,
muscles and ligaments is simply desiccated." He said, "It's as
though you were cutting a piece of paper with a hot wire--the
edges become dry, scorched and thinner. Furthermore, all traces
of blood vanished. We only found some coagulated remains in the
heart."

Daniel told the Saliquello TV that unusual cuts can be seen in
the animals' bodies and heads. "One of them shows a perfectly
straight cut on one mandible. Furthermore, its tongue is missing
along with most of the alimentary tract, larynx, pharynx and
saliva glands. The outer ear is completely missing. Another
curious incision appears on the body (ribs and abdomen) which is
teardrop-shaped through which genitalia was extracted," he
explained. "It is a strange circumstance since there are no
signs that the animal put up a fight, nor is their any evidence
of scorched pastureland. I'm not saying that this is the
handiwork of alien beings, but it's a strange circumstance
nonetheless. Even the other animals refuse to come close to the
dead ones, and curiosity is a characteristic element of
bovines," he concluded. Intense bright lights were filmed over
Argentina on April 18, 2002, by Ricardo e d'angelo. Thanks to
Diario La Arena (La Pampa, Argentina) April 29, Translation (C)
2002. Institute of Hispanic Ufology. Special thanks to Gloria
Coluchi. communities.latam.msn.com/glaucoart/
intensaesferaovnivedsobrepalermoyaledaos18402.msnw

UNITED KINGDOM PHOTO OF UFO

LANCASHIRE -- Merseyside Anomalies Research Association (MARA)
reports that one of its members and her husband sighted a UFO.
Nikki Limb took a digital photograph, but what ever it was, was
quite a distance away and the detail is poor, but nevertheless
interesting. We don't have an explanation for it at this time.
Please go to http://www.mara.org.uk/ and check out the images
and abstract. Thanks to Nikki Limb ty.limb@ic24.net, Bill Bimson
wbimson02@blueyonder.co.uk

ITALY UFO SIGHTINGS FOR LAST YEAR REACH 717

The Italian Center for UFO Studies Newsflash # 352 reports new
statistics about the sightings of 2001. New data as of the
sightings of alleged UFOs in Italy jumped from 655 to 717. The
detailed catalogue of last year's sightings is almost ready,
complete with descriptions of documentary sources for each case.
The C.I.S.U. maintains the greatest archive of UFO press
clippings that exists in Italy, with hundreds of thousands of
items from 1946 through the present. Thanks to (Centro Italiano
Studi Ufologici, CISU)

PACIFIC OCEAN SKY LIGHTS UP

TUVALU -- Peter Davenport received this strange report, "Dawn
arrived ahead of schedule over a remote Pacific Island on
October 27, 1997, at 9:42 PM on a black night with low clouds
and a light drizzle." From the west, below the horizon a light
lifts steadily and quickly, like dawn, but much faster and
lights up the entire sky. Lagoon waters turn blue, like day.
Birds fly startled from the trees. Roosters crow. The light
passes overhead then up and away rather than bending over the
opposite horizon. At least 200 witnesses saw the light but had
never seen, anything similar. Like dawn breaking at high speed
in the middle of the night. Some say they saw a blue light. A
group of football players, resting after a practice match, say
they felt a strong rush of wind as it flew past. One guy saw it
while out in the ocean fishing and jumped for cover under his
boat. Seasoned merchant navy sailors, home on vacation, had
never witnessed anything like it and no one has a clue as to
what it could have been. Footage on TV of meteorites entering
the atmosphere, while spectacular, were nothing at all like
this. Here the entire sky lit up, not just a portion of it with
reddening low on the western horizon, like explosions, things
dropping into the ocean, burning, then and blackness. Funafuti
is a coral atoll, extremely flat, making visibility of all
horizons very clear. The event took 15 seconds. There was no
noise. Tuvalu is 700 km north of Fiji, remote, and on no airline
flight path. Nothing like this had been seen in Tuvalu before.
If photographed, which it wasn't, it would probably look
something like an artists impression of the 'second coming,'
Watchtower style, but without the figures and trumpets. Peter
Davenport requested more information

ASTROBIOLOGY, ORIGIN OF LIFE AND THE DEATH OF DARWINISM

Dr. Bruce Maccabee writes that in Filer's Files #17 you wrote:
Editor's Note: I'm in touch with scientists involved in advanced
DNA research who have informed us that human DNA has been
altered, and created in the past.

The idea of partially directed evolution or "neo-darwinism"
which lies between strict creationism (everything especially
created) and strict Darwinism (mutations strictly by chance all
the way!) is discussed in my book. This along with many other
related aspects of human life (including future man-machine
evolution) is in my book, ABDUCTION IN MY LIFE. Thanks to Dr.
Bruce Maccabee brumac@compuserve.com

"THE HUNT FOR ZERO POINT" BOOK REVIEW

Art Wagner, M.S.(Physics) has written a book review of "The Hunt
for Zero Point". Zero point is believed to be energy that exists
in space. Nick Cook's new book was released in England,
Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa in August 2001, but has
been delayed twice for US release. It is an investigative
reporter's Cooks Tour of what has come to be known in the UFO-
as-machine literature. This is the story of Dr. Pangloss, who
for ten years - travels to many companies and countries by
following the directions of a pseudonymous "Dr. Marckus". We are
never told exactly who Dr. Marckus is except for a cursory
physical description and that he is an eminent scientist in the
physics department of a famous British University. Written in a
"popular" vein, THE HUNT FOR ZERO POINT seems to prompt the
interested reader to dig deeper; at least that is the effect it
had on me. For example, in discussing ionized plasma boundary
layer control, a certain paper by engineers at Northrop is
mentioned. Dr. Marckus is given to say, "It's missing. They
couldn't find any record of it. Almost certainly, some special
projects office in the Pentagon made it disappear." That paper
does not seem to be readily available but I most strongly urge
everyone reading this review to study the web page of the Berlin
University of Technology titled "Electroaerodynamic (EAD) Wind-
Tunnel" http://www.user.tu-berlin.de/aybchgdj/tunnel/.  This is
necessary reading in the current UFO-as-machine literature,
Century/Random House(2001). ISBN 07126 69531

Along with the research reports of Jean-Louis Naudin in France
on "The Enhanced T. Brown Electrokinetic Experiment"
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/enhbbexp.htm and "The Lafforgue
Field Propulsion Thruster"
http://jnaudin.free.fr/lfpt/index.html. The so-called
"Philadelphia Experiment" is mentioned briefly as a tarnishing
element to T.T.Brown's career and stays pretty close to the
standard party line. However, if such an event like the P.E. of
Legend had taken place, its physics would be very much like that
described by Yuri N.Obukhov and Guillermo F. Rubilar in "Fresnel
Analysis of the Wave Propagation in Nonlinear Electrodynamics,"
5 April 2002 (arXiv:gr-qc/0204028) producing birefringence and
skew on field effects. This type of work is based on a 1923,
paper by Walter Gordon in Germany on optical analog gravity
metrics. See also "Optical Black Holes Could Be Made In The Lab"
on CERNCourier (www.cerncourier.com/main/article/40/4/10).
(amazon.uk.co)'s blurb for the book refers to a lecture on
antigravity as having taken place in "April,1992" while the book
itself (p.230) says "1991." We are also given much important
material: the spotlight on Kammler and his Kammlerstab (staff);
with two photographs of the AVRO V.T.O. Project Y "Manta" and
one of their Mach 4 Project 1794 saucers in its test rig;
clarifying details about Viktor Schauberger's saucer work from
his own contemporary records; and results from a firsthand study
of John Hutchison's experimental work by Col. John Alexander
from INSCOM in 1983 over several months. A good background
report on Mr. Hutchison's work may be found in "The Hutchison
Effect" by John Hutchison in ELECTRIC SPACECRAFT JOURNAL, issue
9 (1993), PP.21-28. An important connection between his work and
that of Wilbert B. Smith in Ottawa can be found in THE GRANITE
MAN & THE BUTTERFLY by Jeanne Manning (1995), p.183.

ROSWELL MUSEUM SPEAKER

On May 11, 2002, George Filer will be speaking at the Roswell
Museum at 7:00 PM, about his experience in chasing UFOs while in
the Air Force and about the crash at Fort Dix/McGuire AFB on
January 18, 1978. the so called Roswell of the East. This little
known case is very similar to the story at Roswell, NM. Don't
miss this presentation.

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO photographs available
and data on their propulsion systems by US Navy Commander Graham
Bethune. $10.00. Send check or money order to G. Filer 222
Jackson Road, Medford, New Jersey 08055. CD OF FILER'S FILES for
the last five years 1997 through 2001 is available for $25.00.
Both for $30.00.

The new Air Victory Museum "UFO Display" needs your help with a
tax exempt donations or memorabilia. The museum is a 3 hour
drive for one-third of the population of the US.
http:www.airvictorymuseum.com.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and
comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send
your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically
grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please
state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story
confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND
REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards, George A. Filer









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                      L.M. Krauss NYT Article 04-30-02

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 21:08:57 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 03:35:33 -0400
Subject: L.M. Krauss NYT Article 04-30-02


I think some may appreciate this letter.

Stan

-----

From: Stan Friedman
To: letters@nytimes.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:01 PM
Subject: L.M. Krauss article 4/30/02

Letter to NYT Re. L.M. Krauss,
New York Times
May 1, 2002
Stanton T. Friedman

Lawrence Krauss (NYT April 30 re Pseudoscience) follows in the
footsteps of a number of academic scientists bold enough to make
predictions of the future of flight. Dr. Simon Newcomb in
October, 1903, published an article scientifically proving that
the only way man would ever fly would be with the help of a
balloon. just 2 months before the Wright Brothers first flight..
Dr. Bickerton in the 1920 s proved scientifically that it would
be impossible to provide anything with sufficient energy to
place it in orbit around the earth. Dr. Campbell, at the U. of
W. Ontario, proved scientifically in 1941 that the required
initial launch weight of a chemical rocket able to take a man to
the moon and back would be only 300,000,000 times higher than
what was actually required as demonstrated less than 30 years
later by the Apollo Program. Campbell made such pseudoscientific
assumptions as that the rocket would have only one stage, would
be limited to 1G acceleration, would be launched vertically, and
would require a retrorocket to slow it down before return to
earth. The NASA aerospace engineers and applied scientists of
course used a multistage rocket, exposed the astronauts to
several Gs, launched to the East from near the equator, and took
advantage of the moon s gravity to provide some of the energy
and the earth s atmosphere to slow down the rocket upon return.
Making wrong assumptions usually leads to false conclusions.

Krauss claims we do know absolutely, how much on board fuel will
be needed is pseudoscience of the highest degree, equivalent to
Campbell s absurd assumptions. I am not surprised at this
arrogance having debated him on a California radio show about
UFOs. I had earlier read 2 of his books (though he had read
neither of mine).As a nuclear physicist who worked on nuclear
power plants for space applications and aircraft nuclear
propulsion systems as well as on fission and fusion rockets, I
was able to demonstrate on the air that he had provided
misinformation about these areas of technology and about UFOs,
as well.

Of course he refused my challenge to a public debate. As night
be expected. he followed the 4 basic rules for UFO debunking :
1. Don t bother me with the facts, my mind is made up. 2. What
the public doesn t know, I will not tell them.3. If I can t
attack the data, I will attack the people, it is easier. And 4.
I will do my research by proclamation, since investigation is
too difficult..

Proclamations by Academic Professionals, about things about
which they know almost nothing, are the lowest form of
pseudoscience.


Stanton T. Friedman,
fsphys@brunnet.net

Nuclear Physicist Lecturer

Fredericton, NB, Canada

506-457-0232  FAX 506-450-3832






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                    Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 01:58:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 03:40:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In


 >From:  Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:13:32 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

 >>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
 >>To: updates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:29:45 -0500 (CDT)
 >>Subject: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

<snip>

 >Psychic powers have been demonstrated over and over again, and I
 >don't mean theatrically. The problem conservative scientists
 >face is that in the "new science", the old scientific method
 >breaks down, in that it requires all experimenters be able to
 >duplicate the results in order for an event to be deemed valid.

 >Trouble is, there is a class of events where the outcome depends
 >on who the experimenter is. NSF is conveniently "forgetting"
 >about that class of events, and I am certain that every member
 >of NSF, if asked in private, would know very well about such
 >events, and the fact that this "participatory universe" concept
 >is gaining wide acceptance.

 >Included are all the often repeated paranormal phenomena, as
 >well as some successful free energy demonstrations, like cold
 >fusion.

 >I pray that UFO researchers and activists will not be swayed by
 >what is (my opinion) blatant disinformation and an attempt to
 >keep the lid on many research fields including UFOs.

Why would you think this is disinformation? It was a survey
carried out by the National Science Foundation. If you think
these people are 'in on it' do a bit of digging, see if you can
blow the lid off their little game.

I think this was a proper report, the concern being not only
that a high percentage of people rest their faith in
pseudoscience but that a high percentage of people know so
little about science fact.

Only 54% of Americans know that it takes one year for the Earth
to orbit the Sun? I'd like to know what the other 46% thought.
Scarey stuff.

 >"Psycho-social phenomena" don't show up on radar or burn circles
 >where the "psycho-social phenomenon landed" or shut down ICBM
 >control systems.

I don't think anyone doubts that, but here's the bit: What did?
We can go on a month of Sunday's discussing the effect but no
one has so far been able to come up with the cause. I'm sure our
respective Governments (with all their resources) have some
interesting files on the UFO subject.

Personally I don't care if the UFO phenom turns out to be
extraterrestrial or terrestrial in origin, I would except the
evidence no matter what side of the fence it happens to fall on,
I'd just like to know what the hell they are. So if you've not
done it already, sign the petition.


All the best,

Dave Bowden






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               CCCRN News: Next Vancouver Crop Circle Lecture

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 02:06:24 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 03:42:33 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: Next Vancouver Crop Circle Lecture


CCCRN NEWS
The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

May 1, 2002

_____________________________


For those in the Vancouver area...


'CROP CIRCLES IN CANADA 2001, 2002 UPDATE AND JUNGIAN
INTERPRETATIONS'
Pacific Heights Housing Cooperative
Vancouver, BC
May 13, 2002

Paul Anderson - Director, Canadian Crop Circle Research Network
Gary Bobroff - MA, Psychology

Exclusive in-depth overview, with slides and video, of the
Canadian crop circles in 2001, including the results of Crop
Watch 2001, CCCRN's field research investigation project in the
Canadian prairies during the August / September 'circle season',
with both aerial and ground documentation and other anomalous
effects experienced and recorded. Some formations were larger
and moderately more complex than those seen before in Canada.
Also the latest early 2002 worldwide reports and a unique look
at the psychological interpretations of crop circles and their
possible relationship to human conciousness. Many researchers
and others, including with CCCRN, have had experiences implying
a possible connection, suggesting deeper meaning(s) to the
phenomenon.

Pacific Heights Housing Cooperative
#615 (Common Room) - 1035 Pacific Street, Vancouver (West End)
Monday, May 13, 2002, 7:00 pm - 10:00 pm
Admission: $7.00 Adults, $5.00 Students / Seniors
Presented by Pacific Heights Housing Cooperative
For further information: 604.731.8522 (CCCRN), 604.684.3493 (PHHC)

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
psa@look.ca

To unsubscribe, send an e-mail with Unsubscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
psa@look.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and
scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma.

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

=A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002







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                Paradigm Research Group Update - May 1, 2002

From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 02:32:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 03:53:46 -0400
Subject: Paradigm Research Group Update - May 1, 2002



                   PRG Paradigm Research Group

                       Update - May 1, 2002

Fasten Your Seat Belt

PRG predicts the second half of 2002 (July-Dec) will be the most
intense period of public engagement of the UFO/ET/Disclosure
issues since 1947.  An enormous amount of activity is in the
works.  Some can't be discussed yet, some is listed here:

1) "Taken," a massive 10-part, 20 hour miniseries on abduction/
    contact phenomena, is slated to begin airing in December.
    Major promotion will likely begin in July. The series is
    executive produced by Steven Speilberg, perhaps the
    single most influential person in film. All of the
    early indications are the phenomena will be treated with
    respect.  Steven Speilberg has addressed some of the
    largest and most powerful issues of the 20th century in
    his work.  The timing of this series could not be better.

2)  At least 6, possibly more, documentaries for cable and
    network release this year are in the can or in production.
    Most of them include important content on the politics
    of disclosure.  Also, Paul Davids' movie "Roswell" will
    come out in the fall on DVD. Much promotion expected.
    And Davids' and Hoagland's RKO movie with a Mars/
    NASA/anomalies/disclosure theme will likely be
    promoted extensively during the fall as well.

3)  The Disclosure Project led by Steven Greer has picked
    up the pace of its activities with meetings and events
    planned across the country. More importantly, the
    Project has announced that many new witnesses have
    come forward as a result of the May 9, 2001 press
    conference at the National Press Club in Washington,
    DC. A second press conference at the NPC could take
    place in the fall.

4)  Stephen Bassett, the founder of PRG and the executive
    director of X-PPAC, has entered the congressional election
    in the 8th District of Maryland as an independent.  The
    campaign is titled "Disclosure2003" and is home based at:
    www.disclosure2003.net

    Nominating signatures (only 4000 needed) will be gathered
    by volunteers throughout May, June and July. Campaign
    appearances will begin in June and increase in intensity
    up through the election on November 5.  Disclosure2003
    intends to take full advantage of the extensive media
    coverage expected for what will likely be a very close race
    between 10-term incumbent, Connie Morella, and the son
    of Sargent and Eunice Shriver (and Maria's brother), Mark
    Shriver.

5)  X-PPAC will be stepping up its activities targeting Congress.
    Starting in July, congressional alerts and other materials
    will be directed at both houses on a bimonthly basis,
    working up to a weekly basis by September 1.  Two weeks
    ago 20 key members of the House and Senate were
    hand delivered copies of Terry Hansen's important book,
    "The Missing Times: News Media Complicity in the UFO
    Cover-up."  Other books will be purchased and delivered
    to key members throughout the year.

And there is more. Soooooooo...

For those who want resolution of the most profound transition in
human history, now is the time to get serious and get involved.
  Your support, financial and otherwise, is needed now. It's time
to pile on.

Over the past six years PRG and X-PPAC have learned how to get
the most bang for the buck, doing with $10 what other
organizations do with $100.

The Disclosure2003 congressional campaign is only limited by the
funds available to it. Door hangers, yard signs, petition cards,
banners, local cable advertisements, bumper stickers, canvassing
- the volunteers are on board, only the funds are needed.  This
campaign is being conducted on behalf of all American citizens
who value the truth. It needs your help now. Personal
contributions are FEC limited to $1000 per candidate.

X-PPAC is positioned to have some real impact. It needs your
support now. Personal contributions are FEC limited to $5000 per
calendar year.

Paradigm Research Group has tried to help any and all other
political initiatives for the past six years. It has spent over
$100,000 dollars of its founder's funds. It has never charged
for assistance. But with major financial support it could do so
much more.  It is a private, pro bono lobbying firm. Personal
contributions are unlimited.

Other groups are out there doing the work: the Disclosure
Project, Enterprise Mission, CAUS, Skywatch International,
MUFON, CUFOS, FUFOR - they all need support of one type or
another. Join up, muscle up, fund up. Let's rock.


Hopefully, the above enthusiasm will make it easier to deal with
the rest of this update.


May Day, May Day, May Day. The 21st Century is 17 months old.
How do you like it so far? Didn't start off in quite the manner
you'd hoped?

The Doomsday Clock
www.thebulletin.org/media/current.html
www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/02/27/doomsday-clock.htm

"Chicago, February 27, 2002: Today, the Board of Directors of
the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists moves the minute hand of
the 'Doomsday Clock', the symbol of nuclear danger, from nine to
seven minutes to midnight, the same setting at which the clock
debuted 55 years ago. Since the end of the Cold War in 1991,
this is the third time the hand has moved forward."

The Paradigm Clock
www.paradigmclock.com

As most of you know, the Paradigm Clock was modeled after the
Doomsday Clock, where midnight represents nuclear war. On the
Paradigm Clock midnight represents the formal disclosure event
(government acknowledgment of an extraterrestrial presence).

One way to consider the 21st Century from this point forward is
as a race between these two clocks. Which one is going to strike
midnight first? This approach is based upon the premise that
only a major worldview change can complete the processes of
disarmament, population management and global cooperation on
environmental concerns and thus head off what for now looks to
be a century of unmitigated human suffering.

Some would disagree with this premise, but have no alternative
scenarios to offer other than waging war and bunkering up. For a
glimpse of what lies ahead in just the next 13 years, check
out.....


National Intelligence Council's Global Trends: 2015 Report
www.cia.gov/nic/pubs/2015_files/2015.htm

 From its website: "The National Intelligence Council, or "NIC,"
is a center for U.S government mid-term and long-term strategic
thinking and Intelligence Community collaboration on substantive
issues. The NIC reports directly to the DCI in his role as head
of the Intelligence Community."

Take a look at the world the NIC envisions in 2015 with a
population increase of 1 million (to 7 billion). Then consider
that the most recent and conservative projections for 2050 give
a population figure of 9 billion.  Most of you will be gone by
then, but trust me, your kids don't want to go there.

This generation has got to grab the reins and make some changes
soon.  Who wants to pass on a world built on truth and
cooperation as opposed to lies, secrecy and blood feuds? There
is still time to make a difference.

   ________________________________________________

              Paradigm Research Group
             URL: www.paradigmclock.com
             E-mail: ParadigmRG@aol.com
               Phone: 301-990-4290
                Fax: 301-990-0199
              4938 Hampden Lane, #161
              Bethesda, Maryland 20814
   _________________________________________________

     "There is almost no limit to what you can accomplish,
         if you are willing to give away the credit."
   _________________________________________________

          "Intellectual passion is found at the
           intersection of fact and implication."





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   May > May 2

                        30% Of US Believes ETs Visit

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:27:36 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 05:57:52 -0400
Subject: 30% Of US Believes ETs Visit


Source: AP via Chicago Sun-Times, May 1, 2002,

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-science01.html

Stig

***


Americans believe 'pseudoscience'

May 1, 2002

BY PAUL RECER

WASHINGTON - Few Americans understand the scientific process and
many believe in mysterious psychic powers and may be quick to
accept phony science reports, according to a national survey.

The survey, part of the National Science Foundation's biennial
report on the state of science understanding, research,
education and investment, found that the belief in
'pseudoscience' is common in America.

The study found that science literacy has improved only slightly
since the previous survey and that 70 percent of American adults
do not understand the scientific process.

America continues to lead the world, the study found, in
scientific investment, in research and development and in
technology advances. But it found weakness in some levels of
scientific education and noted that the United States continues
to depend heavily on foreign-born scientists and faces increased
competition from steadily improving scientific enterprises
abroad.

In the survey of American attitudes toward science, the study
found that doctors and scientists were the most respected of the
professions, but it also found that "belief in pseudoscience is
relatively widespread and growing."

A survey of 1,574 adults found that 60 percent agreed or
strongly agreed that some people possess psychic powers or
extrasensory perception, a premise that is generally discarded
as unproven by most scientists.

Although 57 percent of those surveyed disagreed that UFOs came
to Earth bearing aliens, about 30 percent believe that some
reported objects in the sky are really space vehicles from other
civilizations.

AP

**

Copyright 2002, Digital Chicago Inc.






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                    Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 05:48:24 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 06:07:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In


 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 01:58:23 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:13:32 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

 >>>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
 >>>To: updates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:29:45 -0500 (CDT)
 >>>Subject: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

 ><snip>

 >>Psychic powers have been demonstrated over and over again, and I
 >>don't mean theatrically. The problem conservative scientists
 >>face is that in the "new science", the old scientific method
 >>breaks down, in that it requires all experimenters be able to
 >>duplicate the results in order for an event to be deemed valid.

 >>Trouble is, there is a class of events where the outcome depends
 >>on who the experimenter is. NSF is conveniently "forgetting"
 >>about that class of events, and I am certain that every member
 >>of NSF, if asked in private, would know very well about such
 >>events, and the fact that this "participatory universe" concept
 >>is gaining wide acceptance.

 >>Included are all the often repeated paranormal phenomena, as
 >>well as some successful free energy demonstrations, like cold
 >>fusion.

 >>I pray that UFO researchers and activists will not be swayed by
 >>what is (my opinion) blatant disinformation and an attempt to
 >>keep the lid on many research fields including UFOs.

 >Why would you think this is disinformation? It was a survey
 >carried out by the National Science Foundation. If you think
 >these people are 'in on it' do a bit of digging, see if you can
 >blow the lid off their little game.

As a researcher in other fields where government cover ups have
been a way of life (examples: human radiation experiments,
MKULTRA, COINTELPRO to name a few) the pattern is obvious. The
tragedy is that the work of so many UFO and abduction
researchers is the target of a group who up close and
personally, know better.

 >I think this was a proper report, the concern being not only
 >that a high percentage of people rest their faith in
 >pseudoscience but that a high percentage of people know so
 >little about science fact.

Since when is ESP research pseudoscience? Or Ufology? Or remote
viewing? Or plant EEG readings that react to other organisms in
distress? Or electronic voice phenomena recorded on tape? Or
hauntings recorded on tape and electromagnetic disturbances
recorded to match?

These are areas where the results cannot be produced by every
experimenter or produced every time. That in no way means they
are "imagnary", just more difficult for science to work on.

The fact is that the old scientific method, the one that denies
that the universe is affected at a distance by living beings
within it, is not adequate for serious study of this "new" class
of events. The NSF needs to be reminded of this, loudly and
often.

 >Only 54% of Americans know that it takes one year for the Earth
 >to orbit the Sun? I'd like to know what the other 46% thought.
 >Scarey stuff.

That is not relevant to a government body slurring genuine
phenomena which happen to fall into the class of not being
reproduceable every single time or by every single researcher.

UFOs and other phenomena listed above have been dissed for
years, and I'm saying the flaw in the "scientific method" is
what is the problem, not "pseudoscience" or lack of science
knowledge in the populace.

 >>"Psycho-social phenomena" don't show up on radar or burn circles
 >>where the "psycho-social phenomenon landed" or shut down ICBM
 >>control systems.

 >I don't think anyone doubts that, but here's the bit: What did?

The presence of UFOs in the area, apparently. Such appearances
routinely stop electrical equipment from working.

 >We can go on a month of Sunday's discussing the effect but no
 >one has so far been able to come up with the cause.

Ever wonder why?

Scientist Dr. Robert O. Becker in his book 'Body Electric',
about electromagnetic influences on the human body, laments the
fossilized attitude of mainstream science this way:

page 264-265 (emphasis mine):

"Following the curious dogma that
_what_we_don't_understand_can't_exist_, mainstream science has
dismissed psychic phenomena as delusions or hoaxes simply
because they're rarer than sleep, dreams, memory, growth, pain,
or consciousness, which are all inexplicable in traditional
terms but are too common to be denied."

What I am trying to do is urge UFO researchers, many of whom
have literally poured their lives into their work, to shout back
at NSF or any other agency that promulgates such nonsense
"OBJECTION!", as a trial lawyer would, and stop taking this crap
laying down!

 >I'm sure our
 >respective Governments (with all their resources) have some
 >interesting files on the UFO subject.

I don't doubt that at all. On every one of the other phenomena
and crimes I've named above too.

 >Personally I don't care if the UFO phenom turns out to be
 >extraterrestrial or terrestrial in origin, I would except the
 >evidence no matter what side of the fence it happens to fall on,
 >I'd just like to know what the hell they are. So if you've not
 >done it already, sign the petition.

I was one of the earliest signers.

 >All the best,

Best to you also.

Eleanor White







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                 Re: Paradigm Research Group Update 05-01-02

From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 12:21:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 08:03:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Paradigm Research Group Update 05-01-02


 >From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 02:32:43 -0400
 >Subject: Paradigm Research Group Update - May 1, 2002


 >                   PRG Paradigm Research Group
 >
 >                       Update - May 1, 2002

 >Fasten Your Seat Belt

 >PRG predicts the second half of 2002 (July-Dec) will be the most
 >intense period of public engagement of the UFO/ET/Disclosure
 >issues since 1947.  An enormous amount of activity is in the
 >works.  Some can't be discussed yet, some is listed here:

 >1) "Taken," a massive 10-part, 20 hour miniseries on abduction/
 >    contact phenomena, is slated to begin airing in December.
 >    Major promotion will likely begin in July. The series is
 >    executive produced by Steven Speilberg, perhaps the
 >    single most influential person in film. All of the
 >    early indications are the phenomena will be treated with
 >    respect.  Steven Speilberg has addressed some of the
 >    largest and most powerful issues of the 20th century in
 >    his work. The timing of this series could not be better.


The British UFO Research Centre could give Speilberg some of the
best abduction cases from the UK, if he cares to contact us. Not
rubbish, but proper cases investigated by qualified researchers
and Nurses.


Eric Morris

See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/may/m02-006.shtml








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                      Nick Pope's Weird World May 2002

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:18:02 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 08:07:39 -0400
Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World May 2002


NICK POPE=92S WEIRD WORLD
www.hotgossip.co.uk

Welcome to the May 2002 round-up of the weird and the wonderful,
with all the latest news concerning UFOs, abductions, the
paranormal and much more besides.

Top Secret UFO Documents

The May issue of UFO Magazine is out now and includes further
Top Secret UFO documents from the early Fifties, published for
the first time. These documents are part of an article that
Georgina Bruni and I have written, following up on some of the
points in last month=92s world exclusive article concerning the
British Government=92s handling of the UFO phenomenon. The
documents come from a series of files at the Public Record
Office (DEFE 10/496, DEFE 41/74 and DEFE 41/75) and relate to
the setting up of the Flying Saucer Working Party. Our new
article expands on some of the themes covered in the April
edition of the magazine, including George Adamski=92s 1963 visit
to Earl Mountbatten=92s estate, R V Jones' interest in the
unexplained, and the extent to which the US influenced the
British Government=92s policy with regard to UFOs. We also write
about the more general state of Anglo-American relations, and
explain how the field of scientific intelligence was beset by
difficulties in the post-war period. Some of this latter
material may seem as if it=92s not directly related to ufology,
but we believe it=92s extremely relevant. In our previous article
we showed how the sceptic versus believer debate about UFOs
raged at the very heart of the British Establishment, involving
figures such as Tizard, Jones, Lindemann, Dowding and
Mountbatten. In our new article we show how the development of
official policy concerning UFOs cannot be viewed in isolation
from wider political factors.

Check out www.ufomag.co.uk for details of the magazine.

The Secret State

Contemporary historian Peter Hennessy has written an intriguing
and decidedly chilling new book entitled The Secret State.The
subtitle is Whitehall and the Cold War, and the book tells the story
of how Britain would have reacted to a nuclear attack. Hennessy
draws on declassified Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) documents
and interviews with some of the key players. Extensively
referenced, the book gives a terrifying glimpse of what might have
happened if the Cold War had exploded into the real thing.
Published by the Penguin Group, The Secret State costs =A316.99.

The Big Breakfast

After ten years, one of Britain=92s best-known programmes came to
an end on Good Friday, as The Big Breakfast broadcast its final
show. My reason for mentioning this is that the show was one of
the few British programmes favourably disposed to ufology, and
over the years they=92ve interviewed the likes of Georgina Bruni,
Timothy Good, Russel Callaghan and Nick Redfern. I=92ve been on
four or five times and was invited back for the final show and
to a party to celebrate the programme. It was sad to see the
show go and I wish everyone involved in it every success for the
future.

Is Ufology Dead?

There was fairly wide media coverage of comments made by Fortean
Times editor Bob Rickard at the magazine=92s annual UnConvention
last month. The remarks were sceptical about UFOs and prompted a
debate over whether ufology was dead. Judy Jaafar and Georgina
Bruni debated the issue on Richard & Judy, while UFO Magazine
editor Graham Birdsall launched a vigorous defence of the
subject online and in the magazine. He pointed out that since
the beginning of the year the magazine has been sent around two
dozen videos of UFO sightings captured by members of the public
in the UK. And of course there=92s a much greater number of
sightings reports not backed up by film footage. This
illustrates a problem that I faced at the Ministry of Defence.
People would ask how many sightings had been reported to us in a
particular year and then treat the figure as if it was a global
total. I=92d constantly have to remind people that the MOD figures
only covered the UK and dealt only with reports made to the
Department. But many people would never report to the MOD,
either because they didn=92t know how to, or because they
mistrusted us and thought we=92d cover up their sighting. So we
got some reports, the various different UFO groups and
researchers got some (and hardly ever shared data) and the media
got some. And all the time most people who see a UFO won=92t
report it to anyone, either because they fear ridicule or
because they simply don=92t know who to report to. The bottom line
is that nobody, not even the MOD, has comprehensive data on the
true extent of the phenomenon. So is ufology dead because one
particular magazine or group isn=92t getting good reports? I think
not.

The Missing Times

Terry Hansen is the author of The Missing Times, a UFO book that
is causing something of a controversy at the moment. The
subtitle of the book is News Media Complicity in the UFO Cover-
up. Now I=92m not a conspiracy theorist, but for people who are,
this is an intriguing title. Anyone who enjoyed Michael
Mannion=92s book Project Mindshift should enjoy Terry=92s book. But
my primary reason for mentioning this book is the fact that it
is one of the few UFO books to highlight the role that Professor
R V Jones played in the development of official policy on UFOs.
Hansen also includes material on how the government handled
sightings of foo-fighters and ghost rockets. The Missing Times
can be ordered through www.xlibris.com or through the usual
Internet book sites.

Nick Pope, London


Nick Pope=92s four books, Open Skies, Closed Minds, The Uninvited,
Operation Thunder Child and Operation Lightning Strike are
available from most good bookshops and from all the usual
Internet book sites. His British publishers are Simon &
Schuster. In America, his first two books are published in
hardback by The Overlook Press and in mass- market paperback by
Dell Publishing.







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                      Black On Current State Of Ufology

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:58:43 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:01:23 -0400
Subject: Black On Current State Of Ufology


In an interview in the online shmag Pop Politics, longtime
Cincinatti UFO investigator Jerry Black made these comments on
the current state of ufology:

http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2001-04-26-black.shtml

................................................................

Armed with the determination of Mulder and Scully, Black tries
to expose the hoaxes and false claims and focuses on the cases
that, even after thorough investigation, remain mysteries. Hes
aware that his is a lifestyle largely misunderstood -- and
maligned -- by the public, and he blames the glut of
misinformation marketed each year to UFO enthusiasts.

"The industry has kind of gone to pot," the 61-year-old Black
says wearily, referring to the amount of misleading information
and unsubstantiated claims perpetrated, he says, in books like
Intruders by Budd Hopkins, an account of human abductions, and
Whitley Striebers bestseller, Communion: A True Story, which was
adapted into a 1989 feature-length film starring Christopher
Walken.

"It seems like everybody out there is more interested in money
than telling the truth about UFOs," Black says.


Nobody in particular





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                      Study Urges Caution On Mars Trip

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:08:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:08:24 -0400
Subject: Study Urges Caution On Mars Trip


Source: Yahoo News

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=624&e=2&cid=624&u=/ap/20020501/
ap_on_sc/visiting_mars_1

Science - AP

Study Urges Caution on Mars Trip
Wed May 1, 4:00 PM ET

By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - NASA faces a dilemma in planning to send
people to Mars: The scientific desire to search for life there
versus the need to prevent any such life from endangering the
astronauts or the Earth.

  The National Research Council is recommending that safety take
precedence and that missions to the Red Planet try to avoid
encountering any possible life forms there.

"While the threat to Earth's ecosystem from the release of
Martian biological agents is very low, the risk of harmful
effects is not zero and cannot be ignored," the council said in
a report released Wednesday.

The NRC urged NASA to establish "zones of minimal biological
risk" by sending automated probes to test for organic chemicals
or other life forms.

Astronauts could then be sent to areas with the lowest possible
risk of encountering life that might either pose a threat to
them or to Earth if it returned with them.

And in an additional step to avoid bringing back contamination,
the study said, the returning spacecraft might have to be
abandoned in space with the astronauts transferred to another
vehicle to get back to Earth.

While NASA has not scheduled a human mission to Mars, it asked
the council to study what measurements and studies need to be
done in advance. Unmanned space probes have studied the planet
in flybys and by landing on its surface.

Mars has long fascinated astronomers. The planet is known to
once have had considerable water on its surface, making it a
prime candidate for life forms such as bacteria, which many
scientists believe could still exist in the Martian soil.

A Mars landing craft would inevitably become coated with dust,
and astronauts walking on the planet to do scientific work would
bring some dust back inside with them, as happened on the trips
to the moon.

To prevent a return of this material to Earth, the report
suggested a transfer in space where the returning craft is
docked to another vehicle and the astronauts are transferred in
a sterile atmosphere.

If the return vehicle could not be sterilized in space it might
have to be discarded and never come back to Earth, the report
said.

And NASA "might be faced with requiring quarantine and
surveillance of returning astronauts until it is determined that
a threat no longer exists."

Other recommendations in the study:

- NASA should determine the rock size, shape and abrasiveness at
potential landing sites.

- An unmanned Mars lander needs to study the adhesiveness of dust
on that planet.

- Potential radiation exposure at planned landing areas need to
be assessed.

- NASA should study the threat of toxic elements on Mars and
design filters to protect the astronauts from them. A particular
concern is hexavalent chromium, a rare material on Earth which,
studies suggest, may be present in larger amounts on Mars.

- The presence of high concentrations of sulfur and chlorine on
Mars suggest the possibility of acidity in the soil and airborne
dust. This needs to be measured and prepared for.

The National Research Council is a part of the National Academy
of Sciences, an independent agency chartered by Congress to
provide advice to the government on scientific issues.







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                Houston, British Columbia Sighting - 03-21-02

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 06:26:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:12:32 -0400
Subject: Houston, British Columbia Sighting - 03-21-02


HBCC UFO

Houston, British Columbia

Date:   March 21, 2002
Time:   Approx: 7:00 p.m.
Object: Bright white with orange glow around it

Houston, British Columbia

The witness reported that when he and a friend were looking at
new trucks at Sullivan Pontiac dealership in Houston, B.C.,
which is along the business frontage road just off Highway #16,
a very bright white object caught their eye. The object would
have been in the field behind the car dealership which would be
facing southwest at some distance away from them both. Actually
he said the object was hovering above an old barn which is in
the field.

When I was talking on the telephone to the witness, he said that
in all of the pictures the object looked like a bright white
"star". But in one of the photos he said, if you look really
close you can barely see an orange glow around the white object.
He also said that seeing the object in person was totally
different from how the object looks in the pictures.

He mentioned also that it was so far away when he took the
picture that it looks like a star in the photo. He added that
you could tell it was something really bright because there are
also lights from the town in the picture as well. The object
when looking at it with the naked eye was as bright, or brighter
than the lights around him, meaning town lights.

The guys pulled out their camera using the "flash", and as soon
as they started taking the pictures the object rose up from it's
stationary position and moved slowly towards the two witnesses.
At this point they were freaking out and threw the camera down
on the front seat, jumped in the vehicle and took off very
quickly. They had turned their heads around to see if the object
was still coming in their direction but they told me it had
disappeared. The object didn't disappear as if it dropped slowly
behind a mountain, but rather just vanished as if you turned off
the lights in your home.

Investigators Note: The two fellows dropped into my home to show
me the pictures and give me the rest of the story. As mentioned
by the witness above, the object was in the distance, but after
I looked over the area today where this took place it really
wasn't as far as the pictures make it out to be. There is a barn
standing out in the field where the object was hovering. From
the photos and from what I saw when checking the area out, the
object would have been still some distance above the barn. I am
going back tomorrow to take some pictures myself, and to look
around the area a little more just in case there may be
something I might have missed. Also one of the witnesses said he
did have a hard time sleeping that night after watching this
object, knowing it was something he was not familiar with.

 From some of the reports I have received since February 1, 2002
there seems to be a pattern of very frightened people. As a
matter of fact I talked to one of the ladies from the February
1, 2002 sighting of the large boomerang shaped craft which went
right over the top of the car when they were traveling back from
Smithers heading home to Houston, B.C. and she still gets goose
bumps just talking about it, and is still very nervous over the
whole experience.

Also an important note about the pictures. The fellows took the
three pictures using the flash on the camera. Due to this event
taking place at night the flash does wash out the image in which
the person is trying to capture on film. Also it can be
detrimental if the flash exposes things close to the camera and
between the camera and the object. Corners of buildings, or tree
trunks, light poles etc. will reflect back "flash" light that
washes out the target image.

Like many of us, these fellows did their best in trying to catch
the object on film, not thinking of what the flash may have done
to the outcome of the pictures. To be honest, in a case such as
this, with the excitement of seeing something you can not
explain I may have done exactly the same thing.

I would like to extend my many thanks to both the witness who
reported their sighting to me here at HBCC UFO.







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                           Krauss NY Times Article

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:53:11 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:17:38 -0400
Subject: Krauss NY Times Article


This was in Tuesday's NY Times (in the weekly Science section);
the author is head of the physics department at Case Western
University:

It was sent me by Bob Pratt.

-----

The New York Times - Science

Tuesday, April 30, 2002


Odds Are Stacked When Science Tries To Debate Pseudoscience


By LAWRENCE M. KRAUSS

I vividly remember the first time I was hijacked on the radio. I
had agreed to participate in a debate for a Florida radio
program that specialized in alien visits and UFO sightings.
My better judgment suggested that I should be wary. But I
thought if I kept my focus purely on the physics challenges
involved in space travel, I might be able to persuade some
listeners to be skeptical of the claims that aliens were
regularly visiting, abducting and experimenting with our fellow
earthlings.

I should have known better. After 45 minutes defending myself
against the claim that I was close-minded, when I argued that
science did in fact impose constraints on what is possible, and
politely responding to demands that I must first scrupulously
review all the specific claims of alien sightings before I could
possibly have the temerity to make general statements about
plausibility or implausibility, I felt that any uninformed
listeners who might have been waiting to be swayed probably
found themselves merely confused at the end of the show.

In a debate that confronts the results of science with
pseudoscience, from alien abductions and crop circles on one
hand to the health benefits of weak magnetic fields or young
earth creationism on the other, the odds are stacked against
science.

Part of the problem is uniquely American. We in the United
States are constantly regaled by stories about the limitless
possibilities open to those with know-how and a spirit of
enterprise. Combine that with a public that perceives the limits
of science as targets that are constantly being overcome, and
the suggestion that anything is absolutely impossible seems like
an affront. Indeed, modern technology has made the seemingly
impossible almost ordinary. How often have I heard the cry from
an audience, "Yeah, but 300 years ago people would have said it
would be impossible to fly!"

Although true, the problem with that assertion is that 300 years
ago people did not know enough about the laws of physics to make
the assertion, so the claim would have been improper. Had they
made a simpler claim like, "Three hundred years from now, if you
drop this cannonball off the Tower of Pisa, it will fall down,"
they would have been right.

Although it is probably true that there is far more that we do
not know about nature than that we do know, we do know
something! We know that balls, when dropped, fall down. We do
know that the earth is round and not flat. We do know how
electromagnetism works, and we do know that the earth is
billions of years old, not thousands.

We may not know how spacecraft of the future will be propelled,
whether matter-antimatter drives will be built or even if time
travel is possible. But we do know, absolutely, how much on-
board fuel will be needed to speed up a substantial spacecraft
to near the speed of light an enormous amount, probably enough
to power all of human civilization at the present time for
perhaps a decade.

That means that aliens who want to come here from a distant star
will probably have to have some better reason than merely
performing secret kinky experiments on the patients of a Harvard
psychiatrist.

As difficult as debating ultimate limits of the possible may be,
there is another debate that is even harder to win. But it is a
debate that may be even more important. It is a debate on the
"fairness" of science. The reason for the difficulty is simple.
Science is not fair. All ideas are not treated equally. Only
those that have satisfied the test of experiment or can be
tested by experiment have any currency. Beautiful ideas, elegant
ideas and even sacrosanct notions are not immune from
termination by the chilling knife edge of experimental data.

In Ohio, a debate is raging over whether to teach "intelligent
design" alongside evolution in high school biology classes.
Intelligent design is based on the belief that life is too
complicated to explain by natural causes alone and that some
intelligence, ultimately some divine intelligence, must have
created the original life forms on earth or guided their
development.

Proponents of that idea suggest that including it in the
curriculum is simply a question of fairness. If a significant
number of people do not believe that evolution provides an
adequate explanation of the origin of species, they argue, then
it is only fair to present both sides of the argument in a high
school science class.

But at least half of Americans polled in a recent survey by the
National Science Foundation did not know that Earth orbits the
Sun, and that it takes a year to do so. Does this mean we should
teach that Earth is the center of the universe? Of course not.
It merely means that we are not doing a very good job informing
the public about physics.

Science is not a democratic process. It does not proceed by
majority rule and it does not accept notions that have already
been disproven by experiment.

Intelligent design makes assertions that cannot be tested by
experiment. Those assertions that can be tested, say about blood
clotting or the claimed irreducible complexity of various
components of cells, seem to have thus far failed those tests.
So intelligent design does not belong in a science class. End of
story.

Nevertheless, recently the Ohio State School Board felt it
necessary to run a hearing on evolution vs. intelligent design
in a debate format, with two proponents of evolution to face off
against two advocates of intelligent design in Columbus.

One might think that I would know better than to agree to
participate in such a debate. But I did, because I felt the
education of schoolchildren in Ohio was so important.

Nevertheless, I tried to learn from my earlier mistakes. Merely
having a debate inevitably suggests that each side has some
credibility. As a result, opponents of the scientific method
like creationists try very hard to appear in debates with
scientists. Merely being on the same stage represents a victory!

I made sure that I emphasized this intrinsic inequity in my
opening remarks in Columbus, and it colored much of the
subsequent discussion, as well as the later reporting of the
event. I do not know whether it was sufficient to let listeners
focus on whether there was really anything worth debating in the
first place. But it at least allowed for that possibility.

In the meantime, for those scientists who find themselves thrust
in such public debates, I have found at least one useful tool.
When debating U.F.O. experts, ask them whether they believe in
"Young Earth Creationism." When debating young earth
creationists, ask them whether they believe in alien U.F.O.'s.
When they say no, ask why. Their answers will inevitably shed
light on the weakness of their own positions.

Of course, as has once happened to me, you might find yourself
debating a U.F.O.-believing creationist. But you can't win them
all. My hope is that you can win at least some of the time.






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                         Spielberg's 'Taken' Project

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:08:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:35:34 -0400
Subject: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project


I'm hearing a number of mixed signals regarding this project and
don't know what to think. Several major UFO researchers have
been contacted about providing interviews for this project,
which indicates that it is a documentary of some sort. But
that's not the impression I get from the write up on the Sci-Fi
Channel's web site:

http://www.scifi.com/taken/moreinfo.html

TALENT GETS 'TAKEN' BY SCI FI MINISERIES

Stellar Roster of Actors and Directors, Including Michael
Moriarty and Eric Close, join 20-Hour Epic Presented by SCI FI
Channel, DreamWorks Television and Steven Spielberg


Casting continues on Taken, the unprecedented 20-hour epic
presented by SCI FI Channel, DreamWorks Television and Steven
Spielberg. In production in Vancouver since September, the
groundbreaking miniseries has added a number of actors to the
roster, including Michael Moriarty (Law & Order) and Eric Close
(Now and Again). A nearly complete list of directors for the ten
two-hour episodes has also been released.

Joining Moriarty in the cast are Willie Garson (Sex & the City),
Anton Yelchin (Hearts in Atlantis), Eric Close (Now and Again),
Ryan Hurst (Remember the Titans), Chad Morgan (The District),
Rob LaBelle (First Wave), Catherine Dent (One Life to Live) and
Tina Holmes (Seven and a Match). They join an already noteworthy
cast which includes Steve Burton (The Last Castle), Julie Benz
(Angel) and Joel Gretsch (The Legend of Bagger Vance).
Additional casting will be announced in coming months, and
principal photography continues through the end of May 2002.

Behind the camera, directors for seven of the ten episodes have
been locked. They include Tobe Hooper (Night Visions), Breck
Eisner (The Invisible Man), Felix Alcala (Third Watch), John
Fawcett (Xena: Warrior Princess), Robert Harmon (Homicide: Life
on the Street), Bryan Spicer (The Lone Gunmen) and Sergio
Mimica-Geezan (The Incident), whose notable work as 1st AD to
Spielberg includes Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List,
among others.

Undoubtedly the most ambitious sci-fi production ever undertaken
for television, Taken is slated to air in fourth quarter 2002,
exclusively on the SCI FI Channel. Leslie Bohem ("Dante's Peak")
has written all 20 hours of Taken; Bohem and Steve Beers serve
as executive producers.

Taken is a sweeping sci-fi adventure that weaves together the
story of three families over three generations - and their
crucial roles in the history of alien abductions. Set against
the backdrop of actual history and UFO lore, Taken creates a
powerfully emotional and evocative tale of mankind's encounters
with extraterrestrials.

DreamWorks SKG was formed in October, 1994, by its three
principal partners - Steven Spielberg, Jeffrey Katzenberg and
David Geffen - as a single company to produce live-action motion
pictures; animated feature films and television programs;
network, syndicated and cable television programming; records;
books; toys; and consumer products. DreamWorks Television is the
network television production arm of DreamWorks SKG.

Taken Casting

In addition to Taken, current DreamWorks Television projects
include Spin City (ABC), Undeclared (FOX), The Job (ABC), Off
Centre (The WB) and Band of Brothers (HBO). SCI FI Channel,
owned and operated by USA Cable, a division of USA Networks,
Inc.'s (NASDAQ: USAI) Entertainment Group, transmits fantastic
images to 76 million human homes. Launched in 1992, SCI FI
features a continuous stream of cinematic hits, new and original
series, and special events, as well as classic sci-fi, fantasy,
and horror programming. Check out SCI FI.COM=A8, the SCI FI
Channel's award-winning Web site, at www.scifi.com







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                  Re: Nick Pope's Weird World 05-02 - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:28:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 04:26:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Nick Pope's Weird World 05-02 - Bruni


 >From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World May 2002
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:18:02 +0100


NICK POPE'S WEIRD WORLD
www.hotgossip.co.uk

 >The Missing Times

 >Terry Hansen is the author of The Missing Times, a UFO book that
 >is causing something of a controversy at the moment. The
 >subtitle of the book is News Media Complicity in the UFO Cover-
 >up. Now I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but for people who are,
 >this is an intriguing title. Anyone who enjoyed Michael
 >Mannion's book Project Mindshift should enjoy Terry's book. But
 >my primary reason for mentioning this book is the fact that it
 >is one of the few UFO books to highlight the role that Professor
 >R V Jones played in the development of official policy on UFOs.
 >Hansen also includes material on how the government handled
 >sightings of foo-fighters and ghost rockets. The Missing Times
 >can be ordered through www.xlibris.com or through the usual
 >Internet book sites.

Thanks for that Nick.

I thought it worth mentioning that Terry Hansen is a journalist,
it's seldom that a newspaper journalist will pen a book on the
subject of UFOs. Graham Birdsall has ordered some stock of
Missing Times, because like Nick, he thinks it is an excellent
book.

Apparently it was published in the US about a year ago, pity it
didn't get the publicity it deserves. It's worth contacting UFO
Magazine for a copy if you are resident in UK, www.ufomag.co.uk
otherwise www.xlibris.com


Georgina Bruni








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                      Dave & Andy's Not So Weird World!

From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:58:15 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 04:45:27 -0400
Subject: Dave & Andy's Not So Weird World!


People may be interested in the following article which is the
lead story in the Ministry of Defence's in house Journal, Focus.
It features details of the Flying Saucer Working Party and is
written up by Tony Matthews, of D News, the MoDs press agency.

We are surprised that Nick Pope didn't mention it in his recent
Nick Pope's Weed World, as the MOD are still Nick's employer.
Has Nick been covering this up? And if so why? The public should
be told!


NO ALIENS, NO FILES
By Tony Matthews

If ET ever wants to phone home from MOD he will have a problem.
After half a century of investigations, the department decided a
couple of years ago that - on balance - he didn't exist.

At least that was when the Defence Intelligence Staff told the
Air Staff to stop sending them reports on unexplained aerial
phenomena - unidentified flying objects to you and me. For the
previous 30 years not a single one of thousands of reports from
both military and civilian sources had yielded any valuable
information whatsoever. No extra-terrestrials or bug-eyed
monsters looking to take over the planet. Not even any Earth -
based enemies keen to penetrate UK air space. Just nothing!

But hold on, little green men never die; they only fade into the
cosmos until the next time they are needed. Hence widespread
interest in the latest revelations on UFOs with a BBC Radio 4
programme, a new book being published on May 9, and a
forthcoming TV documentary covering the work of "ufologists"
David Clarke and Andy Roberts who claim to have exposed an
official cover-up dating back to the 1940s.

There's not much secrecy about it these days but a high point of
their painstaking research in the Public Records Office and the
British Library was locating a once classified report to MOD's
Joint Technical Intelligence Committee by the short -lived
Flying Saucer Working Party which existed 1950-51. Mysterious
high speed, cigar-shaped missiles, sometimes emitting bright
lights, had been spotted over Scandinavia in 1946 and "saucer-
like discs" over Britain itself and the US from 1947-50. Were
the  Martians coming or the Soviets trying to frighten the free
world?

With the Cold War at its height, Ministry officials were
relieved to report mundane explanations for all the Scandinavian
sightings while the Americans were said to have put the blame on
misinterpretation of aircraft, balloons, meteors, stars or
fireballs as well as mass hysteria and deliberate hoaxes. As for
UFOs over Britain, these were largely put down to meteorites.
Three particular sightings by RAF officers at Tangmere and
Farnborough were explained as a weather balloon whose speed had
been over-estimated and ordinary aircraft whose flying positions
against the light had probably produced optical illusions. The
Flying Saucer Working Party, recommending no further
investigations, was promptly wound up.

But the story was far from over. The Working Party had been
based at what was then the Air Ministry's Metropole Building and
Clarke and Roberts have found reports that years later,
technical intelligence officers were continuing to monitor UFOs
there from a former attic room on the ninth floor. The pair
unearthed a Sunday newspaper reporting in 1957 that, while "at
airfields all over Britain fighter planes are kept ready to
intercept and if necessary engage any unidentified flying object
within combat range" (hardly surprising during the Cold War),
the Air Ministry also had "a special department" in the
Metropole Building which had accumulated 10,000 UFO reports over
10 years. Though most had been "cleared up", some remained
unexplained. Defence chiefs were "taking the Flying Saucer
SERIOUSLY" the paper proclaimed.

Clarke and Roberts claim to have pinpointed the exact location
where this UFO department operated in the Metropole Building -
Room 800 in Dome D, now empty. They visited it recently along
with a TV camera crew for the forthcoming Discovery Channel
programme. But in keeping with their claim of an official cover-
up of UFO investigations, they point to the lack of any
available files revealing what the department found.

A big mystery? Well maybe - until you remember the DIS decision
a couple of years ago. Are valueless files really worth keeping?
With no prior background information now available about him, it
looks like ET will simply have to join the ordinary queue for
his MOD security pass.


http://www.flyingsaucery.com







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                          20 Million Year Old Map?

From: Karl Rotstan <karl.rotstan@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:54:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 04:48:15 -0400
Subject: 20 Million Year Old Map?


Greetings all,

I found the following astonishing article at:

http://www.therussianissues.com/topics/55/02/04/02/14403.html

Apparently there is a similar article in a recent Pravda as
well:

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/30/28149.html

but this seems to be a rewrite of the original article.

Best regards,

Karl Rotstan

-----

The Creator's Map (Itogi)
A map dating back to 120 million years ago may change our
understanding of the history of mankind


by Stepan Krivosheyev, Dmitry Plenkin
02.04.2002, 17:23

A 120-million-year-old stone slab found by scientists in
Bashkiria features a map showing an area of the Urals. This
conflicts with what we know about the history of mankind.

It might seem incredible that scientists at Bashkiria State
University have found conclusive evidence of the existence of a
highly developed civilization millions of years ago. Scientists
found a large stone slab in 1999 that features an relief map of
terrain like those that the military has. The map shows canals
stretching for 12,000 kilometers and enormous dams. There are
rhombs close to the canals, but what they mean is unclear. And
there are also many inscriptions looking like hieroglyphs. At
first it was thought they represented an ancient Chinese
language, but it was established later that was not the case.
Scientists cannot yet decipher the meaning of the hieroglyphs.

The first expedition flew over the places where they expected
the slabs to be, but none were found. Chuvyrov began to think
that those slabs were merely a legend. "The more I learn, the
more I realize that I don't know anything," confesses Bashkiria
State University Professor Alexander Chuvyrov, who found the
stone slab. Back in 1995, he and a Chinese post-graduate student
decided to find out whether the ancient Chinese settled down in
what is now Siberia and the Urals. During one of the expeditions
in Bashkiria, they found several rock inscriptions in old
Chinese, confirming their theory. When the inscriptions were
deciphered, it became clear that most of them were about trade
deals and the registration of births and deaths.

The two scientists also discovered notes dating from the late
18th century in the archives of Ufa's governor-general. They
spoke of two hundred strange-looking white stone slabs located
just outside the village of Chandar. The archives also mentioned
the fact that Russian scientists exploring the Urals in the 17th
and 18th centuries left a note saying they had examined 200
white stone slabs carrying signs and ornaments. It appears that
a Russian archeologist by the name of Schmidt saw six white
slabs in Bashkiria in the early 20th century. All that suggested
that the slabs might have had something to do with the Chinese
settlers. In 1998, Chuvyrov got down to work by knocking
together a crew consisting of college students and other
acquaintances. The first expedition flew over the places where
they expected the slabs to be, but none were found. Chuvyrov
began to think that those slabs were merely a legend.

Success came when it was least expected. When Chuvyrov was on
one of his visits to the village of Chandar, a local man
approached him and said, "I take it you are looking for some
slabs here. There's a strange one lying in my courtyard." "At
first I didn't take his words seriously," Chuvyrov says, "but
then decided to take a look. I remember that day - it was July
21, 1999. I saw a stone slab with dents on it lying under the
porch. It was obvious that the two of us wouldn't be able to
move it, and I rushed to Ufa for help."

Work was in full swing in Chandar a week later. When Chuvyrov's
team dug up the slab, they marveled at its size - it was 148
centimeters long, 106 wide and 16 thick. The man who had invited
Chuvyrov to see the slab made wooden wheels, which were used to
lift it from the hole it was lying in. The find was called
"Dasha's Stone" in honor of Chuvyrov's granddaughter, who had
been born a short time before. It was then moved to the
university. Once the slab was clean enough to reveal what had
been hidden under a layer of dirt, the group couldn't believe
their eyes. "As soon as I looked at it," Chuvyrov recalls, "I
realized that it was not a mere chunk of stone but a map, and
not just a simple map, but a relief map."

"At first we did not even imagine that the map could have been
that old. Fortunately, the changes that the Bashkirian terrain
has undergone over millions of years have not been all that
great. The height of Ufa is easily identifiable on the map."
Chuvyrov says geological hunting has revealed a trace of the Ufa
Canyon in keeping with the map. That is the main piece of
evidence demonstrating that the map is, in fact, a map of the
area. Since then the canyon has shifted under pressure from
tectonic plates moving from the east. A group of Russian and
Chinese cartographers, physicists, mathematicians, geologists,
geographers, chemists and specialists in ancient Chinese
languages have established beyond doubt that the map shows an
area of the Urals complete with three rivers - the Belaya, the
Ufimka and the Sutolka. The map also shows the Ufa Canyon, a
rupture in the earth's crust stretching from Ufa to Sterlitamak.
Today the Urshak River flows there.

As a physicist, Chuvyrov believes only in facts coming from
research, and here are the facts. The slab consists of three
layers. Solid dolomite forms its 14 cm base. The second layer is
the most interesting - it is "made" of diopside glass. That is
where the map is actually situated. A 2 mm layer consists of
calcium porcelain protects the map from damage. Dr. Chuvyrov
notes that the map was not carved by hand. X-rays show that
high-precision mechanisms were used to work the stone.

In the beginning, scientists suggested that the ancient stone
slab might have been of Chinese origin. They came to this
conclusion based on the vertical inscriptions on the map,
although the inscriptions did not match any variant of ancient
Chinese script. But a meeting with scientists from a Chinese
university finally buried "the China theory." Chinese scientists
insisted that kind of porcelain had never been used in China.
Attempts to decipher the inscriptions produced no results, and
establishing the slab's approximate age proved to be quite a
problem. Radiological and chemical methods were used, but they
produced no conclusive result. Two shells were found on the
slab's surface. The age of one of them - a Navicopsina munitus
of the Gyrodeidae family - is 50 million years. The other
(Ecculiomphalus princeps of the Ecculiomphalinae family) is 120
million years old. Scientists assume the second is the correct
age. Dr. Chuvyrov says the map might have been created at the
time when the earth's magnetic pole was in what is now Franz-
Joseph Land, which means roughly 120 million years ago. Original
estimates put the slab's age at 3,000 years, but when the shells
encrusted into the map were found, it was assumed that the slab
was much, much older.

Original estimates put the slab's age at 3,000 years, but when
the shells encrusted into the map were found, it was assumed
that the slab was much, much older.

The most intriguing part of it all is why the map was created in
the first place. When the center of historical cartography in
Wisconsin looked at the map, the Americans pronounced their
verdict: a three-dimensional map could only be used for
navigational purposes. It could only be made using of aerospace
photography. As a matter of fact, work is under way in the
United States to create a three-dimensional map of the world;
the project is expected to be completed only in 2010, given that
the Americans will have to process an enormous mass of numbers.

Who was the map's creator? Chuvyrov does not believe in aliens,
extra-terrestrials or things like that. "Why not call whoever
made the map the creator - as simple as that," he muses.

The latest studies of "the creator's map" have brought quite a
number of sensations. Scientists have no doubt that the stone
slab found in Chandar is only a small fragment of a large map of
the Earth. Some believe there are a total of 348 fragments, and
they say other fragments might be found near Chandar. Judging by
the more than 400 earth samples taken near the village, the
entire map could have been located in a gorge near Mount
Sokolinaya before it was torn apart during the Ice Age. If the
fragments are found, scientists expect the resultant stone map
to measure about 340 by 340 meters.

The find in Bashkiria has no parallel anywhere in the world with
one exception. At one point during the study of the map, Dr.
Chuvyrov spotted a small stone on his desk. It showed the same
configuration of terrain as was on the map. Somebody might have
made a copy of it, but who did it and when is a mystery.






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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:20:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 04:50:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark


 >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
 >To: updates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:58:43 -0500 (CDT)
 >Subject: Black On Current State Of Ufology


 >In an interview in the online shmag Pop Politics, longtime
 >Cincinatti UFO investigator Jerry Black made these comments on
 >the current state of ufology:

 >http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2001-04-26-black.shtml

<snip>

 >Armed with the determination of Mulder and Scully, Black tries
 >to expose the hoaxes and false claims and focuses on the cases
 >that, even after thorough investigation, remain mysteries. Hes
 >aware that his is a lifestyle largely misunderstood -- and
 >maligned -- by the public, and he blames the glut of
 >misinformation marketed each year to UFO enthusiasts.

 >"The industry has kind of gone to pot," the 61-year-old Black
 >says wearily, referring to the amount of misleading information
 >and unsubstantiated claims perpetrated, he says, in books like
 >Intruders by Budd Hopkins, an account of human abductions
....

 >"It seems like everybody out there is more interested in money
 >than telling the truth about UFOs," Black says.

I would hope that Black has been misquoted here.

One may agree or disagree with Budd Hopkins makes of the
abduction phenomenon, but to slander this transparently honest,
decent, and dedicated man as a crass moneygrubber is really
beyond the pale. This sort of casual trashing of others is one
reason ufology has "kind of gone to pot". If critics can't be
bothered with honest criticism, we really are in trouble.


Jerry Clark







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                          Re: Bad Astronomy - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:20:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 05:00:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad Astronomy - Jones


I thought this might be of interest to all.


----

Source: www.badastronomy.com

Rebuttal to a Bad Book Review

April 7, 2002

When I wrote a book taking aim at pseudoscience, I was not so
foolish as to believe that its adherents wouldn't fire back. My
book has been getting a fair share of positive reviews:

http://badastronomy.com/book/badastrobook.html#reviews

but it has now garnered a negative one.

I should have expected it: it's from a mailing list about UFOs.
You can read the review in its entirety here:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/apr/m05-017.shtml

It was written by a man named Chris Rutkowski, a Media Relations
Co-ordinator for the University of Manitoba.

[See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/team/chrisr.html
  --ebk]

I am not in the habit of rebutting every comment made about my
site or my book, but in this case I think I should. He makes
quite a few logical errors in his review, and it's worth looking
at them.

He starts with some polite comments about my site, and then gets
into my UFO chapter. In it, I relate a story about how I mistook
a flock of ducks under unusual circumstances for a UFO. I was
never seriously thinking they were alien spaceships, but I was
pretty befuddled by what I was seeing, until they were pretty
close by and obviously ducks.

I make the point that amateur astronomers watch the sky more
than any other person, and never report UFOs. This is the point
with which Mr. Rutkowski disagrees. He says amateurs do report
UFOs, and some professional astronomers have too. He mentions a
survey saying that two amateurs in Canada reported seeing UFOs
last year. However, Mr. Rutkowski also says there weren't many
total reports in Canada last year, but doesn't give the actual
number.

This is critical: I claim that amateurs spend far more time
watching the sky than the average person. Therefore, there
should be a proportionately higher instance of UFOs observed by
them. If there aren't, then it's probable that most UFOs
reported are just things people see when they are unfamiliar
with objects in the sky. Amateurs, being more familiar with the
sky, don't report Venus, balloons, satellites and the like as
UFOs. Without any real numbers, Mr. Rutkowski's point is without
real meaning. Were those two reported sightings out of ten
total, or a thousand?

Still, therein is Mr. Rutkowski's only solid criticism in his
review: I never saw that survey report. Perhaps I should have
done more research, or perhaps I should have asked noted UFO
debunker James Oberg, with whom I consulted for that chapter. I
would actually like to read the report, but somehow I missed it.
I cannot report on something I didn't know about. Anyway, I have
indeed hung out with many amateurs over the years, and to my
best recollection, none has ever said they saw something in the
sky they could not explain.

Getting back to the review, Mr. Rutkowski then goes on to say
sarcastically that "since someone [meaning me] with such an
advanced observational ability can be mystified by ducks, other
UFO witnesses must be misidentifying things all over the place,
too."

Well, I am an astronomer, and a practicing amateur too. I have
spent literally thousands of hours under night skies, and I am
fairly familiar with them. This is no idle boast; it's just the
plain truth. I was fooled once, so the odds of someone not as
familiar with the sky being fooled are high. This is not exactly
rocket science.

Then he penned this astonishing statement: "... amateur
astronomers aren't interested in moving lights in the sky any
more than they are in identifiable aircraft". He implies that
this means they wouldn't notice UFOs because they aren't looking
for moving objects.

What an odd thing to claim! This is completely wrong. First,
amateurs use their own eyes, as well as binoculars; they are not
glued to the eyepiece. They commonly see moving objects. Second,
many amateurs love to track satellites, and we all watch meteor
showers. Those are both moving objects. Third, can anyone
honestly say that an amateur astronomer, or anyone, wouldn't
notice a bright flickering multi-hued object zipping around the
sky, stopping suddenly, hovering, then taking off again in a
different direction? To say that amateurs wouldn't see that...
well, it's just wrong. Of course they would. Moreover, amateurs
are far more likely to have photographic equipment with them if
they see something, and are far more likely to know how to use
their equipment under those circumstances. Where is the
photographic evidence from amateurs?

He does make the point that amateurs are less likely to report
them because they would meet with ridicule. He says "... since
Plait makes it clear he thinks UFOs are nothing more than ducks
and stars, would any amateur astronomer in his right mind tell
him about his sighting? Not a chance." Mr. Rutkowski clearly
doesn't know me very well. I am pretty open minded about such
things. I have had many people talk to me (via email or after
talks) asking me about things they have seen in the sky. I am
polite, suggest alternatives to alien spacecraft, and tell them
to become more familiar with the sky. If someone came up to me
with convincing evidence, believe me, I'd be interested! But in
all the footage, reports and the like that have cropped up over
the years, none has ever been convincing to me or other
scientists as solid evidence of alien spacecraft.

Also, Mr. Rutkowski should re-read that chapter. I never say
that aliens are not visiting us. I say that it is highly
unlikely that when someone reports a UFO, it really is an alien.
It's far more likely to be a duck than an alien, but I never say
they are all ducks. Sure, he is being metaphorical, but so am I.

Mr Rutkowski missed the entire point of that chapter. It wasn't
to say that UFOs aren't real. The point is to make people think
critically about the UFOs that are reported, and to be skeptical
when reviewing the sighting. As a matter of fact, on page 206, I
say "... there are mundane explanations for the vast majority of
UFO sightings." Note I did not say "all sightings". Since I have
not looked at all the sightings, I cannot dismiss them. That
would be unscientific.

So I disagree with the majority of Mr. Rutkowski's negative
review. Besides missing the point I was making, he also makes
the unjustified claim that amateurs wouldn't see UFOs (and then
says some do). He then says I am close-minded, which couldn't be
farther than the truth. As the saying goes, be open minded, but
not so open minded your brains fall out. That's a pretty good
credo for skeptics and believers alike.

This page last modified Monday, 08-Apr-2002 13:10:36 EDT

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   May > May 3

                   Re: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 21:32:20 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 06:05:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project - Hall


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:08:16 -0400

 >I'm hearing a number of mixed signals regarding this project and
 >don't know what to think. Several major UFO researchers have
 >been contacted about providing interviews for this project,
 >which indicates that it is a documentary of some sort. But
 >that's not the impression I get from the write up on the Sci-Fi
 >Channel's web site:

 >http://www.scifi.com/taken/moreinfo.html

 >TALENT GETS 'TAKEN' BY SCI FI MINISERIES

 >Stellar Roster of Actors and Directors, Including Michael
 >Moriarty and Eric Close, join 20-Hour Epic Presented by SCI FI
 >Channel, DreamWorks Television and Steven Spielberg

<snip>

Houston, I think we have a problem. With all due respect to
Steven Spielberg, whose works I greatly respect, subsuming the
abduction phenomenon into a gigantic, blockbuster, 10-episode,
made-for-TV FICTION story does not inspire me with confidence.
Dreamworks and the individual production companies will win fame
and forture; the abductees once again will be exploited and used
to enrich others in a way that, to my way of thinking, does not
help at all in bringing serious attention to a REAL phenomenon.


- Dick Hall








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                  Re: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project - Bassett

From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:34:57 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 06:07:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project - Bassett


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:08:16 -0400

 >I'm hearing a number of mixed signals regarding this project and
 >don't know what to think. Several major UFO researchers have
 >been contacted about providing interviews for this project,
 >which indicates that it is a documentary of some sort. But
 >that's not the impression I get from the write up on the Sci-Fi
 >Channel's web site:

 >http://www.scifi.com/taken/moreinfo.html

<snip>


The series is as described. There is also a documentary being
produced.


SB







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                   Re: International UFO Petition - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:14:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 06:11:07 -0400
Subject: Re: International UFO Petition - Rimmer


 >From: Scott Santa <ssanta@neo.rr.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:41:49 -0400
 >Subject: Re: International UFO Petition

 >Thank you for letting me know of the petition..... I had no idea
 >that this particular petition was being offered.

 >I have signed other petitions - Larry Bryant's.

 >Actually came across this one by accident. So maybe the poor
 >showing is not due to lack of interest, but lack of exposure?

 >Anyhoo, I signed the petition, and will spread the word in my
 >circle of influence, and hope for the best.

Can anyone explain to me what is the point of these petitions to
governmental and quasi-governmental bodies? There seems to have
been one every couple of years since I was involved in ufology.
None of them appear to have had any measurable result. Why is
this one different?


--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk







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                     Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 21:57:53 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 06:14:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:49:48 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman

 >Let me repeat: The Pelican made a charge which is false. When I
 >pointed that out, we learned that it was a "joke" and those who
 >didn't recognize it as such - everybody except you and your
 >winged friend - is accused (what else?) of lacking a sense of
 >humor.

And apart from Jerry, those people incapable of seeing it as a
joke would be ... ?


John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk







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                    Re: Krauss NY Times Article - Bassett

From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:52:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 06:17:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Krauss NY Times Article - Bassett


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Krauss NY Times Article
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:53:11 -0300

 >This was in Tuesday's NY Times (in the weekly Science section);
 >the author is head of the physics department at Case Western
 >University:

 >It was sent me by Bob Pratt.

-----

 >The New York Times - Science

 >Tuesday, April 30, 2002

 >Odds Are Stacked When Science Tries To Debate Pseudoscience

 >By LAWRENCE M. KRAUSS

 >I vividly remember the first time I was hijacked on the radio. I
 >had agreed to participate in a debate for a Florida radio
 >program that specialized in alien visits and UFO sightings.
 >My better judgment suggested that I should be wary. But I
 >thought if I kept my focus purely on the physics challenges
 >involved in space travel, I might be able to persuade some
 >listeners to be skeptical of the claims that aliens were
 >regularly visiting, abducting and experimenting with our fellow
 >earthlings.


It is good to see the New York Times is continuing its in-depth
investigation of the UFO/ET phenomena and the people involved.

Its broad coverage of the political process and trenchant,
comprehensive articles on the 50 years of massing evidence are
worthy of several Pulitzers.

The nation is blessed to have a paper of such courage and
journalistic independence.

Articles like the one mentioned, so powerful, so intellectually
thought out.

What can one do but extend their subscription out another 5
years and look forward to basking in the glow of this paper's
penetrating understanding of the universe and all that it
contains.


SB







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                    Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Randle

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:12:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 06:21:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Randle


 >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >Greeting Bill, List and Readers

 ><snip>

 >>Here is what was presented by Don:

 >>Almost fifty-five years and four explanations have past and
 >>still the Roswell crash of 1947 remains one of the greatest
 >>mysteries of all time. Within recent years there has been a
 >>proliferation of anti-Roswell books that are not only debunking
 >>but resort to nothing less than pure character assassination.

 >When allegations of "Character Assassination" come from
 >researchers like Don Schmitt, we definitely have ourselves a
 >Kettle-Black situation. If Don was referring to comments about
 >him, he has only himself to blame. It was not the skeptic
 >community that lied about his education, employment, and
 >especially his Roswell-related research, methods and
 >conclusions. His history of distortion is so well known, I
 >wonder at the level of support he receives today.

 >"...I do not now believe anything that Schmitt says and neither
 >should you."
 >(Kevin Randle - in his To Whom It May Concern Letter dated Sept
 >10, 1995)

 >If Don was referring to Maj. Jessie Marcel: Again, it was
 >Jessie, and no one else, that told people like Moore and Pratt
 >some pretty wild tales about his education and military record.
 >It has been claimed many times by researchers that Jessie had no
 >reason to lie about what he found on Foster's Ranch. But then,
 >it is equally true that he had no reason to inflate his military
 >record either.


Bruce, Bill, List, All -

I find myself a little puzzled here. I have waited for some sort
of response to this suggestion that Don Schmitt has lied about
his background, education, occupation, parts of his Roswell
investigation and the like, yet no one seems willing to
challenge Bruce on these points. It seems to me that we are in
agreement about this.

Bill, I don't mean to single you out, but when you attended the
lecture, were you aware of the baggage that Schmitt brought to
it? If not, then what is your reaction now, to the information
he presented? Do you find it to be credible? I am interested in
why anyone would listen to a thing he has to say, given what we
know about him.

This, I believe, moves into the realm of one of Dick Hall's
points about taking Ufology mainstream. How can we expect the
scientific and journalistic communities to listen to us when
some of those on the lecture circuit not only aren't telling the
truth, they have admitted they weren't telling the truth, and
turn up time and again selling their new and improved stories?

Don Schmitt and Tom Carey have interviewed more than 600
witnesses... is Schmitt counting in that number dozens who I
interviewed when he was somewhere else doing something else?
Does this count the new witness they identified as "Tex" who
tells a tale that doesn't quite fit into anything and who
probably should have been identified as "Swede?"

We are now going over the same material. I could name a dozen
people whose stories have been exposed but we still schedule
them to lecture, we still sit in the audience, nodding and
agreeing, even when we know the person has lied about his
background or his education, or his top secret clearances. We
don't challenge any of these people and when they are rightly
challenged, then their colleagues leap up screaming "character
assassination." Well, it's not character assassination when
you're telling the truth.

On the other hand, Don Schmitt, while we were still working
together, told a number of people not to talk to me because he
suspected that I was a government agent planted on him. Here was
my friend telling people I was a spy and not to be trusted.
Since I'm not a government agent nor was I planted on him, would
this then be character assassination?

Yes, Bruce and I disagree on Jesse Marcel. Bill Moore, who
originated some of these stories has provided, in one case,
three different versions of a single Marcel quote. He has
described his own book as a disgraceful hodgepodge of fact and
fiction. He claims to have inside sources and worked for the
AFOSI as an unpaid agent. Here again is another person who is
still quoted as if he as anything to say that might be of
relevance to us.

Yes, I think that if Jesse Marcel was still alive, we might find
simple answers to our questions, but today we don't have that
luxury. I think most of the trouble comes from simple
misunderstandings, but that is just an opinion about this.

But this discussion has devolved to a point where Bruce's
original statements have been lost. We aren't talking about
Schmitt and his new and improved Roswell story, but talking
about whether or not the pictures in Ramey's office show a rawin
and a weather balloon (Sorry, Ed, but it is a weather balloon
and rawin). We should be examining how it is that Schmitt can
find a venue and that people won't challenge what he says about
the case.

Until we clean our own house, no one is going to listen to us.
We're going to remain the lunatic conspiracy fringe whose
positive evidence gets buried under the rubble of those who lie
to us... and we're all so dumb that we'll just sign up for more
lies.

If we want to move on, then we must encourage real debate rather
than shouting down those whose opinions differ from our own. I
know how that is because no one wants to listen to the
possibility that some alien abductions might be terrestrially
based, meaning there are mundane explanations for them. No one
wants to seriously discuss this. Instead the shouting begins.

So, that's where we are. We do not intelligently debate, we
embrace those who lie to us, and we will not tolerate dissent.
We must accept all parts of the UFO field from animal
mutilations to crop circles to the wildest of the conspiracies
without question and we must attack those who suggest that a
mundane explanation might fit the facts better. (No, I am not
suggesting here that I believe the Mogul explanation and yes, I
am slightly overstating the case but I certainly can offer
examples.)

So, people, just why are we listening to Don Schmitt? I'd like
to know the reason for it.


KRandle







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                          'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:39:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 06:26:32 -0400
Subject: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!


For Immediate Release

***JONATHAN REED EXPOSED!***
UFOWATCHDOG.COM Exclusive Story

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/exposed10.html


UFOWATCHDOG.COM has been investigating the Jonathan Reed UFO
Hoax since first being publicized, and arguably endorsed, on the
late night radio program Coast To Coast AM with Art Bell in
1998. 'Jonathan Reed' and his cohorts garnered no fewer than six
appearances on Coast To Coast AM. 'Jonathan Reed' has also made
appearances at UFO conferences, which included being invited to
the International UFO Congress three times, with one of those
times as the conference's keynote speaker. 'Jonathan Reed' and
his associates have sold books and video tapes to the public on
the basis that their claim of an alien encounter in a Washington
State forest during October 1996 was factual.

 From the beginning of its investigation and based on the facts
and evidence, UFOWATCHDOG.COM has advocated that this case was
being perpetrated by a group of individuals intent on deceiving
the public for personal gain. UFOWATCHDOG.COM called on those
people supporting and/or promoting this case to publicly
disclose and investigate the numerous lies and inconsistencies
surrounding 'Jonathan Reed' and his associates. These people
chose to ignore many, many relevant facts and, in many cases,
simply chose to carry out acts of omission instead of offering
all of the available facts in this case to the public. Many of
the facts that were ignored or omitted demonstrated sufficient
evidence showing fraud in this case.

Those directly involved in investigating 'Jonathan Reed', those
actually having the nerve to call themselves investigators and
researchers, are a prime example of what is wrong with the UFO
field and why the subject is often ridiculed. For those so-
  called researchers and investigators that reported their
findings to the public in support of 'Jonathan Reed' - there is
simply no excuse for poor, sloppy and incompetent investigative
work, whether by design or not.

During the scope of its investigation, UFOWATCHDOG.COM has
uncovered the true identity of "Dr. Jonathan Reed." For those
asserting to have verified that the person claiming to be 'Dr.
Jonathan Reed' was indeed that person, you will have much to
answer for...

Tonight, 02-May-2002 at 7PM (PST), your UFOWATCHDOG.COM editor
will be appearing on the Jeff Rense radio program (please see
http://www.rense.com ) to present evidence and witnesses that
will conclusively prove that 'Jonathan Reed' and his alien
encounter are a fraud.

UFOWATCHDOG.COM will continue in its mission to expose frauds
that choose to exploit the UFO field for personal benefit - you
know who you are and so does UFOWATCHDOG.COM.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"
ufowatchdog@earthlink.net






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              Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 21:26:51 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 06:42:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Friedman


 >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
 >To: updates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:58:43 -0500 (CDT)
 >Subject: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >In an interview in the online shmag Pop Politics, longtime
 >Cincinatti UFO investigator Jerry Black made these comments on
 >the current state of ufology:

 >http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2001-04-26-black.shtml

 >................................................................

 >Armed with the determination of Mulder and Scully, Black tries
 >to expose the hoaxes and false claims and focuses on the cases
 >that, even after thorough investigation, remain mysteries. Hes
 >aware that his is a lifestyle largely misunderstood -- and
 >maligned -- by the public, and he blames the glut of
 >misinformation marketed each year to UFO enthusiasts.

 >"The industry has kind of gone to pot," the 61-year-old Black
 >says wearily, referring to the amount of misleading information
 >and unsubstantiated claims perpetrated, he says, in books like
 >Intruders by Budd Hopkins, an account of human abductions, and
 >Whitley Striebers bestseller, Communion: A True Story, which was
 >adapted into a 1989 feature-length film starring Christopher
 >Walken.

 >"It seems like everybody out there is more interested in money
 >than telling the truth about UFOs," Black says.

As I recall, Black was the one who made outrageous charges about
Bruce Maccabee, Gulf Breeze, and related matters. He sure was
grinding his own axe. and flailing about against all who didn't
buy his conclusions.

Stan Friedman







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                          Secrecy News -- 05/02/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:58:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 06:59:14 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/02/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 39
May 2, 2002


**      CONGRESSIONAL ACTION ON INFO POLICY
**      IMPROVED FISA REPORTING URGED
**      WEN HO LEE FALLOUT HITS LAWRENCE LIVERMORE


CONGRESSIONAL ACTION ON INFO POLICY

Official secrecy and public access to information were topics of
legislative action on several fronts in Congress on May 1.

Sen. Byron Dorgan introduced an amendment to increase the
transparency of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)
tribunals that are convened to settle claims against NAFTA
member nations.

"My amendment is going to say no more secrecy," Sen. Dorgan
said. "My amendment is going to say if we are going to be a
part of NAFTA, the tribunals must be open." See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/s050102.html

Elsewhere, a provision of the pending State Department
authorization bill would require public disclosure of
seismological data in support of arms control verification.

"The head of the Air Force Technical Applications Center shall
make available to the public... all raw seismological data
provided to the United States Government by any international
monitoring organization that is directly responsible for
seismological monitoring." See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/s050102b.html

Lastly, the principle of "community right to know" as it applies
to hazardous liquid pipeline facilities is addressed in the
pending Energy Policy Act, which sets forth a list of minimal
public reporting requirements. Allowance is made for
withholding information if it meets the standards for national
security classification. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/s050102c.html


IMPROVED FISA REPORTING URGED

The release of the latest annual report to Congress on
implementation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
(FISA) has prompted calls for improved public reporting
concerning this exceptionally intrusive government activity.

Although counterintelligence and counterterrorism operations
undoubtedly increased in 2001, the new report indicates a
reduction in the number of authorizations issued by the FISA
court last year for these purposes, apparently due in part to
the shifting definitions and scope of such authorizations in the
wake of the PATRIOT Act.

"Among other things, the PATRIOT Act ... authorizes what DOJ has
characterized as 'generic' FISA orders which allow one warrant
to be served on multiple service providers," according to David
Sobel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center. As a
result, "These numbers need to be taken with a very large grain
of salt," Sobel wrote on the Politech discussion list. See:

http://www.politechbot.com/p-03474.html

Since the scope of the FISA has expanded significantly over the
years, simply reporting the total number of FISA authorizations
actually provides qualitatively less information to the public
today than Congress intended when it enacted the reporting
requirement in 1978.

Accordingly, Congress needs to expand the reporting
requirements, the Washington Post editorialized today.

"The... public FISA reports should include data on the number of
physical searches conducted, the number of wiretaps, the number
of Americans targeted and the raw number of individuals
targeted.... Nobody is asking for case-specific information,
which is legitimately sensitive. But the public is entitled to
know something about how the government's new powers are being
used." See:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18443-2002May1.html

Unfortunately, the congressional intelligence committees, while
jealous of their own prerogatives, have displayed little
interest in promoting public accountability. In all likelihood
any progress toward increased public oversight and
accountability of intelligence matters will have to come from
somewhere else.


WEN HO LEE FALLOUT HITS LAWRENCE LIVERMORE

For no good reason, the leading candidate to become the director
of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory instead became the
latest casualty of the Wen Ho Lee case.

Dr. Ray Juzaitis, associate director for weapons physics at Los
Alamos National Laboratory, withdrew his name from consideration
for the top Livermore post in an April 30 letter.

"The unwarranted linking of my name to the Wen Ho Lee affair in
an attempt to cast a cloud on the appropriateness of my
appointment suggest[s] that the unfounded controversy may hinder
my effectiveness in leading the Laboratory," Dr. Juzaitis wrote.

See a May 1 University of California press release, with Dr.
Juzaitis' letter attached, here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/05/lanl050102.html

The Wen Ho Lee case and the two recent books about it ("A
Convenient Spy" by Dan Stober and Ian Hoffman, and "My Country
Versus Me" by Wen Ho Lee) are the subject of a long and rather
intelligent review in the May 2002 issue of the neoconservative
monthly Commentary. The review, entitled "How Inept is the
FBI?" by Gabriel Schoenfeld, is not available online, but the
Commentary web site is here:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with
this command in the body of the message:
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OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691






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   May > May 3

                   New Terrace, British Columbia Sighting

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 23:34:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:29:13 -0400
Subject: New Terrace, British Columbia Sighting


Houston British Columbia Canada UFO

Terrace, British Columbia

Date: April 26, 27, 28, & the 29th (four nights)
Time: After dark

This is a short version as I just got off the phone with this
witness and re-wound the tape to grab a little off it to let
everyone know. I will have a full report really quickly.

A witness called me tonight May 2, 2002 (Thursday night at 10:30
p.m. Pacific) to report a lot of UFO activity going on in the
Terrace, B.C. area.

He reported that he was unpacking after his move from the
Kitwanga, to Terrace, B.C. Stopping for a cigarette, he saw an
object very close by. He watched it move from East to West, at a
low level.

I asked how large the object was? He said it had to be approx: a
quarter the size of a full moon, and as bight, if not brighter.
It would become dim, then repeat brightness to dim.

He said it would move very quickly, come to a complete stop and
disappear.

On the following night, the light returned, again at low level
and he watched as it dropped pale green lights from its
underside. The green lights vanished before hitting the ground.

The next night, he had witnesses with him, just in case whatever
it was showed up again. Sure enough, they all stood watching the
light, plus other strange objects.

That sighting lasted approx; 5 to 10 seconds, but they did
return later the same night. He also said that at times the
object would stop and blink several times before moving on.

On the last night the witness said, the object/light slowly
rolled over, exposing some kind of shape to it. He said it was
definitely saucer-shaped.

I have this phone-report on tape and plan to head out for face-
to-face interview with him and the other witnesses. Also, while
on this trip I will drop in and gather a few of the other
sightings I have not reported on. Lots more to this sighting, so
stayed tuned.


Take care

Brian
HBCC UFO







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                    Close Encounters Of The Caucasus Kind

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 12:32:39 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:32:35 -0400
Subject: Close Encounters Of The Caucasus Kind


Source: Baku Sun (Azerbaijan's English-Language Newspaper),
         Issue 18

http://www.bakusun.az/cgi-bin/ayten/bakusun/show.cgi?code=2471

No date is given, but if you go to the front page at:

http://www.bakusun.az/index.htm

it is clear that issue 18 was published within the last couple
of days.

Stig

***

News in BRIEF

*

Close encounters of the Caucasus kind

Shemakha is the focal point of unidentified flying objects, the
head of the space seismology sector of the National Aerospace
Agency told the daily Yeni Azerbaijan.

Fuad Gasimov, said that more and more UFOs are flying to
Shemakha, a mountainous district some 170 kilometers northwest
of Baku. The paper reported that Gasimov believes that it's an
observatory there that is attracting the alien visitations. The
paper reported that both the local population of Shemakha and
employees of the observatory have seen a UFO landing on earth,
and close encounters with space aliens cannot be ruled out.

<snip>

Programming by Ayten Alizadeh. Copyright by IntraNS. All rights
reserved.







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   May > May 3

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 18

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:54:07 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:39:43 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 18


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 7, Number 18
April 30, 2002
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/

SECOND UFO APPEARS IN A TV BROADCAST, THIS TIME IN VENEZUELA

Puerto Rican journalist and UFO researcher Jorge Martin reports,
"I've read your report about the UFO observed on April 16, 2002
in an ABC Cable News broadcast related to the Israeli attacks in
Jenin. I was surprised by the report because the same day,
Tuesday, April 16, 2002, at (12) noon, my wife and I were
watching a live (TV) broadcast of a Spanish language CNN report
from Venezuela related to the situation in that country after
the coup d'etat made on the government of President Hugo Chavez,
and something similar happened."

"CNN's reporter in Venezuela, journalist Harris Whitbeck, was
talking to a fellow female news anchor in the U.S. when, all of
a sudden, a spherical white UFO flew in the distance over the
city, right behind reporter Harris Whitbeck, who was located in
a high position overlooking the city of Caracas."

"The female news anchor seemed to become aware of the presence
of the anomalous object and smiled in amazement, but at this
moment the broadcast was terminated, and CNN passed on to
another item."

"Strangely enough, CNN's Hispanic reports are regularly
videotaped and are repeated during the day, but this one was
not. Was it censored? If so, who did it, and why?"

"For me, this seems too much of a coincidence, for UFOs to
appear unexpectedly during both international TV news reports on
the same day and more or less the same type of events. Are
'they' sending a message to the international authorities?"

Nine days later, on Thursday, April 25, 2002, Caracas
experienced a second UFO visitation, which was seen by dozens of
people.

According to Venezuelan ufologist Martha Rosenthal, the first
sighting took place at about 8 p.m. The eyewitness, Sra. Claret
del Rosario Laya, "observed a UFO with an intense light over the
Cerro Avila (hill). The UFO moved back and forth in perfect
balance before disappearing completely."

Elsewhere in Caracas, "at 11:20 p.m., Sra. Moralda Monasterios,
public relations director for Venezuela's Meridiano Television,
watched a UFO fly over the city, leaving a faint beam of light--
a straight line of white light--in its wake. The UFO continued
these aerial maneuvers for two hours."

"Finally, Prof. Mary Rizzo sighted a lenticular UFO" over the
campus of the University of Caracas that evening. (See NotiOVNI
for April 28, 2002. Muchas gracias a Jorge Martin, Daniel Munoz
y Martha Rosenthal para esas historias.)

(Editor's Comment: Okay, that's two so far. One from the West
Bank and the other from Caracas, Venezuela. Did any other UFO
Roundup readers spot one of these "peek-a-boo flybys" on TV on
Tuesday, April 16, 2002?)


GIANT FEMALE SKELETON FOUND IN TUNISIA


"The skeleton of a female measuring 2.3 meters (230 centimeters
or 7 feet, eight inches) long was discovered in Tunisia,
scientists announced Tuesday," April 23, 2002.

"The stone sarcophagus containing the skeleton of a mother
measuring 2.3 meters in height was found this week in the
village of Tajeruine in Tunisia."

"According to the anthropologists, a stone coffin from the Roman
era (the period between 150 B.C. and 300 A.D.) also contained
the skeletons of two sons of the mother. The grave was
discovered while workers were digging a foundation for a new
building. Work was stopped when the project owners realized that
the site would be important to archaeologists."

"The Tunisian Institute of Archaeology said the sarcophagus was
buried with Latin inscriptions identifying the remains as a
'giant woman.'" (See the newspaper El Ansa for April 24, 2002.
Merci beaucoup a OVNI Maroc pour cette nouvelles. E tambem a
Visitantes Cosmicas por eso caso.)

(Editor's Note: A similar giant skeleton was discovered in
Morocco last year. See UFO Roundup, volume 6, number 16 for
April 19, 2001, "Unusual human remains unearthed in Morocco,"
page 5.)


GRAY SPHERICAL UFO SEEN OVER MEXICO CITY


On Saturday, April 13, 2002, at 2 p.m., Demetrio Feria was in
the Oriente section of Mexico City, south of Villa de Guadalupe,
when he spotted an unusual object in the sky. Immediately he
grabbed his videocamera.

The video footage Feria shot "shows the object flying from north
to south over Oriente. Feria reported, 'The strange object was
of an obscure gray color, and it moved slowly at a high altitude
above the capital. The UFO continued its flight and lost itself
in the haze on the horizon.'" (See NotiOVNI for April 21, 2002.
Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz para eso noticario.)


SPHERICAL UFO FILMED AT GLAUCOART, ARGENTINA

On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 8:30 ap.m., Argentinian
ufologist Ricardo E. d'Angelo "filmed an 'intense sphere of
bright light as it slowly floated by' in the town of Glaucoart
in Argentina.

"D'Angelo and one other man witnessed the phenomenon. 'The
intense sphere floated for some 10 minutes on April 18 at 8:30
p.m.,'" d'Angelo reported, "'Two people observed the whole
phenomenon, and we took video of the sphere, which remained
motionless.'"

D'Angelo added that the UFO "generated great flashes of light of
all colors, then began to slowly fly across the city, heading
south. Heavy air traffic was also present over the city at that
time." (Many thanks to Louise A. Lowry for forwarding this
report.)


FOUR YELLOW UFOs SIGHTED BY THOUSANDS IN BEIJING

Four yellow-colored spiral UFOs made a surprise appearance over
Beijing, the capital of China, on Monday, April 22, 2002.

The sightings were reported in two newspapers, the Beijing Times
and the Shanghai Star. According to the newspaper reports, the
four UFOs were seen for just over an hour. The objects emitted
beams of bright yellow light. Chinese observers on the streets
estimated that the UFOs were "very high up," an estimated 10
kilometers (6 miles) above the earth. They hovered for a while
in pairs and then departed to the south.

"Lan Songzhu, a scientist at the Xinglong observation station
operated by the Astronomical Observatory of Beijing, said the
observatory had received more than 10,000 reports of UFO
phenomena in the past hundred years, but only five percent of
these 'had no natural explanation.'" (See the newspaper China
Daily for April 25, 2002. Many thanks to Chen Jilin for this
news story.)


FIVE ORANGE UFOs SIGHTED IN ALBURY, N.S.W.

On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 9:15 p.m., Fred W. was at his
home in Albury, New South Wales, Australia when he spotted a
strange glow in the northwestern sky.

"I saw five bright orange lights, spaced well apart and moving
towards the southeast," Fred reported, "They could have been
balloons as they were slow and bright orange. After about 15
minutes, three disappeared from view, leaving two that
disappeared shortly thereafter. I'd estimate their height
(altitude) at two to three thousand feet (600 to 900 meters) I
thought it might be ballons in a formation, but at night and so
many? Also, I could find no indication of balloons on my (radio)
scanner."

Albury, N.S.W. is on the Victoria state line about 250
kilometers (150 miles) southwest of Canberra, the capital of
Australia. (Email Form Report)


TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN AT MONTEGO BAY, JAMAICA

On Friday, April 12, 2002, at 8:05 p.m., K.B. noticed a strange
object approaching the city of Montego Bay, Jamaica from the
northwest. She reports, "It was a rust- coloured, triangle-
shaped object several miles away travelling at a speed several
times faster than any military or commercial aircraft we had
ever seen. It then took off in a southwesterly direction at a
high rate of speed. A few minutes later, a jet passed over in
the same general direction but at a much lower rate of speed."
(Email Form Report)


ASTRONOMERS SPOT LARGE UNKNOWN OBJECT IN JAPAN

On Monday, April 4, 2002, Syuzo Isobe, president of Japan's
Space Vigilance Association, released an announcement stating
that 'a large unknown object had been detected in the upper
regions of the sky' over the Pacific Ocean south of Japan. 'The
object, which was 50 meters (165 feet) in length, was found to
be in a stationary position at an estimated altitude of 36,000
kilometers (21,600 miles), and would appear to be an artifact
constructed by an intelligent species.'"

"Toshi Nakagawa of the UFO Investigation Organization of Japan
announced that his group would further investigate this
incident." (See the Tokyo newspaper Asahi Shinbun for April 5,
2002. "Arigato" a Daniel Munoz para esa noticia.)


THREE ORANGE UFOs SEEN IN JANESVILLE, WISCONSIN

On Tuesday, April 16, 2002, at 8:50 p.m., in Janesville,
Wisconsin (population 59,498), Jonathan M. reports, "It was
cloudy but I could still see either the moon or a bright star. I
was trying to make out what it was (the moon or a star--J.M.) As
I was looking at it, three orange lights came from the
northeast. They were in formation side by side. As they went
overhead, they zigzagged between each other and shot off to the
southwest in formation again (side by side--J.M.)."

"If you held a dime in your fingers, and held it at arm's
length, this would have been about the size" of the objects.
"They made no noise, and they were very fast. They were not
military jets."

"I want to know if anyone else saw that. Someone had to because
of the brightness and the size. I turned on the (radio) scanner
to see if there were any reports, but no one here reported
anything."

Janesville, Wis. is on Routes 11 and 14, located about 40 miles
(64 kilometers) southeast of Madison, the state capital. (Many
thanks to John Hoppe of UFO-Wisconsin for this report.)

(Editor's Note: Janesville is well-known to Forteans for its
periodic unusual phenomena. In February 1892, a frozen crocodile
five-and-one-half feet (1.5 meters) long was found on the banks
of the Rock River near Janesville. See The Complete Books of
Charles Fort, Dover Publications, New York, N.Y., 1974, page
62.)


SOLITARY UFO SIGHTED IN BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA

On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at approximately 9 p.m., Spyro
Mitchenikos was in Birmingham, the largest city in Alabama, when
he "saw an object, extremely bright. At first I thought it was
the North Star, except that the object was in the eastern sky,
traveling southward. Object was bright, approximately 15,000 to
30,000 feet (4,500 to 9,000 meters) above, moving at a moderate
speed, however, faster than an airplane at that altitude."

"Object traveled in a straight line, horizontal, then the light
appeared to turn off. Object did not make sounds like an
aircraft used for human travel or a military aircraft. However,
dogs from around the neighborhood (about 2 to 3 mile range--
S.M.) began howling. Not sure what object was. Light of object
appeared solitary and did not show any signs of motion.
Extremely bright light. Bright as the North Star. Size: would
appear to be an extremely large object. Object traveled
northeast to south in a horizontal manner. Object traveled
faster than any man-made object travels, then slowed to almost a
motionless position, then began to travel once more." (Email
Form Report)


BULGARIA'S MYSTERIOUS WHITE BROTHERHOOD

The Rodope mountain range, which forms the border between Greece
and Bulgaria, became famous two months ago when a mysterious
skull was discovered near Plovdiv, Bulgaria. But UFO Roundup
correspondent Iassen Kobarelov has revealed that the area is
also home to that country's mystic White Brotherhood. (Editor's
Note: For more on recent doings in the Rodopes, see UFO Roundup,
volume 7, number 4, for January 22, 2002, "Alien skull
discovered in Bulgaria?", page 1.)

  Foremost among Bulgaria's mystics was Evangelia Dimitrova. Born
in 1911, Mme. Dimitrova developed her psychic abilities early
and became famous for her many predictions. She was so accurate
in her predictions that she remained unmolested after the
Communist Party came to power in 1945. In her final years, she
was actually subsidized by the Communist government in Sofia,
the national capital. Prior to her death in 1996, Baba Vanga
(Bulgarian for Grandmother Vangie--J.T.) predicted the sinking
of the Russian nuclear submarine Kursk.

"Another clairvoyant of the White Brotherhood is Peter Daunov,"
Iassen reported, "Then there is Giorgi Lozanov, who founded
Suggestology. Baba Vanga held court at a natural spring called
Roupite, where she was visited by peasants, intellectuals,
ministers and presidents."

Mme. Dimitrova's home was in Petric, Bulgaria, a border town
about 50 kilometers (30 miles) north of Thessaloniki in Greece.
In 1983, assisted by her niece Mme. Vanga Krassimira Stoyanova,
she wrote a book about her life as a seeress, entitled
Inexplique--Le Monde de l'Etrange.

"I met Baba Vanga on November 16, 1989, just before I emigrated
to the Americas," Iassen said, "I was with her for an hour and a
half, which was truly extraordinary. Vanga and I discussed
(Earth) changes by means of the Apocalypse."

Mme. Stoyanova told Iassen Kobarelov that her aunt had also met
extraterrestrials on "a mountain in the Rodopes."

"According to Mme. Stoyanova, her aunt was in contact with ETs
from the planet Vamfim. The entities appeared as elderly bearded
sages with mystic and severe expressions and brilliant costumes,
saying that the time of contact is not yet ended. There will be
even more surprising evidence (of alien contact) in the future.
They showed her a vision of a planet surrounded by bright stars
in her house" at Petric. "She also said the two UFO pilots
agreed to be photographed with her during the encounter."

"On May 5" of that year, "Baba Vanga and her niece saw luminous
UFOs darting around the moon. A rock 5 meters (16.5 feet) high
levitated off the ground by itself. And there was a sudden
illumination of 3-D images--two men standing beside a throne,
and sitting on the throne was another man dressed like a
Pharoah."

Another hot spring in the Rodopes also has a strange reputation.
This is Solenoto Izvorce (Little Salt Spring) on Mount Prespa
near Narecen. The waters of Solenoto Izvorce have the tenth
highest level of radioactivity in the world. A cup of water from
the spring emits 1,130 REM, a fact which Bulgarian scientists
have found puzzling.

Six kilometers (4 miles) from Srednogorci is another mystery
site--Madan (Arabic for Mine--J.T.). The hillsides around Madan
have many old mines dating back to the time of the Parians in
700 B.C. According to mystic traditions, some of the tunnels
lead down to a very ancient tunnel, similar to las socabones of
South America. The Madan tunnel runs south to the Aegean Sea.

The tunnel is said to run from Madan southwest to the ruins of
Amphipolis, near Kavala, Greece, a city approximately 163
kilometers (102 miles) east of Thessaloniki.

(Editor's Note: The ruins were discovered in 1938. The museum in
Kavala, known in ancient times as Neopolis (New City), has a
pair of Ionian columns from the now-vanished Temple of
Parthenos. Amphipolis is best known to Americans, though, as the
hometown of Xena the warrior princess.)

A branch tunnel supposedly heads southeast and goes under the
Aegean to the island of Thasos.

Inhabited since the Stone Age, Thasos was the site of a very
ancient civilization. According to Greek myth, the island was
settled by Thasos, the son of Agenor and the grandson of
Poseidon, god of the sea. (Editor's Comment: A possible Atlantis
connection?)

The indigenous civilization was conquered by the Parians around
700 B.C. The original Thasians worshipped a mother goddess,
Axieros; her husband, Kadmilos; and Dardanos and Aeton, two
mortals who became gods after a number of sword-and-sorcery
exploits which are, unfortunately, lost to history. The Parians
introduced the worship of Athena. Later generations built a
temple to Athena on the southern outskirts of Limenas, the port
and capital of Thasos.

Rising behind Limenas is Mount Ipsarion, site of the original
temple of Axieros. In the rock behind the ruins is a curious
square doorway, which was later revered as a shrine of the Greek
god Pan. The ancient tunnel from Madan, Bulgaria is supposed to
have a hidden entrace somewhere on Mount Ipsarion.

(Editor's Note: Similar "doorways to nowhere" are found in the
USA, as well. Most notably near Brushy Creek in Berryville,
Arkansas, 40 miles (64 kilometers) northeast of Fayetteville,
and at Death Valley National Monument in southern California.
See Mysterious America by Jim Brandon, E.P. Dutton Co., New
York, N.Y., 1978, pages 15 and 24.)

Such are the Rodope mountains, home of the White Brotherhood and
truly Bulgaria's land of mystery. (Many thanks to Iassen
Kobarelov for the information on Baba Vanga. See also Greece:
The Rough Guide, Penguin Books, 1998, pages 683 to 691, and
Greece by David Willett, Bridgitte Barti, Rosemary Hall, Paul
Hellander and James Oliver, Lonely Planet Publications,
Australia, 2000, pages 688 to 694.)

NEWS BRIEFS:

FIRST CROP CIRCLE OF 2002 APPEARS IN HAMPSHIRE, UK

"The first formation of the year has been reported at Soberton,
Hampshire, England; found (Tuesday) April 12 (2002). A simple
60-foot (18-meter) circle/ring in canola, with two small
standing circles in the ring. A humble but welcome start to
another season for the centre of cropcircledom." (Many thanks to
Paul Anderson of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network for
this report.)


FIVE PLANETS FORM A STRANGE NEW ALIGNMENT

Look for a real sky show during May 2002 when five planets of
our solar system line up in a formation that hasn't been seen in
sixty years.

"The western sky is the site of a rare planetary display through
May when Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn are all
visible at once. The last gathering of a visible five-planet
array was in February 1940," six months after the beginning of
World War II.

UFO Roundup readers wanting to view the alignment should go
outdoors just after sunset. Face the western horizon with a
compass. West should be on your left-hand side; west-northwest
should be at your right-hand side. Looking due west-northwest,
you'll see a glow at 10 degrees above the horizon. Relax--it's
not a UFO. It's the Pleiades star cluster. Next to the Pleiades
on your left will be a bright object--that's Mercury. To the
left, and a little above Mercury at 15 degrees above the horizon
is Venus. To the left of Venus, at 20 degrees above the horizon,
is the planet Mars. To the left of Mars at 30 degrees above the
horizon is Saturn. Now, facing due west, look to the left of
Saturn at about 70 degrees above the horizon and you will see
the bright light that is Jupiter.

"Though the planets will not be in (direct) alignment, five of
them will be clustered within 33 degrees of sky (on) May 14."
(See USA Today for April 29, 2002, "Five planets in close
proximity," page 6D.)


READER FEEDBACK:

MYSTERY SOLVED--THE UFO IN LAKEWOOD COLORADO

Concerning the two UFOs that were seen over Lakewood, Colorado
two weeks ago (See UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 17 for April
23, 2002, "Star-like UFOs sighted in Lakewood, Colorado," page
5), David C. Metzler writes, "Mr. Robinson is a very lucky man.
I live in Fort Worth, Texas and was also out that night, but on
purpose. I had checked one of the on-line satellite prediction
pages and was expecting to see the International Space Station
(ISS) and the U.S. Space Shuttle, which had separated from the
station for the trip back to Earth."

"It was a clear night, and it was predicted to have a max
elevation of 90 degrees in my area, flying from north- northwest
to south-southeast. My time was about 9:20 p.m. CDT (Central
Daylight Time) or so, which corresponds to his 8:20 p.m. MDT
(Mountain Daylight Time). The shuttle and ISS were about four
inches apart at arm's length."

David Metzler adds that readers can check out the ISS by logging
in at this website: http://www.bester.com/satpasses.html


 From the UFO Files...

1952: AMERICAN G.I.s SPOT UFOs IN KOREA

Fifty years ago today, American G.I.s fighting the North Koreans
and the Chinese in the rugged mountains around Panmunjom saw two
startling objects fly over their foxholes. For the men of the
3rd Platoon, Heavy Mortar Company, 180th Infantry Regiment,
Eighth Army, it was a sight they would never forget.

"'Two white, silvery objects, one behind the other, rumbled high
in the sky over a valley in a front-line sector at 6 p.m., April
30th (1952), heading southeast into South Korea,' stated a Stars
and Stripes article by Sgt. Bill McCorkle (April 1952 issue). He
went on to point out that six members of the third platoon,
Heavy Mortar Company, 180th Regiment saw the objects. PFC
(Private First Class) H.B. Webb, a jeep driver, said that their
speed was thought to be 900 to 1,000 miles per hour (1,440 to
1,600 kilometers per hour). 'A trail different than jet streams
(contrails) appeared behind them,' he said."

"Pvt. Roland Jones, another eyewitness, said, 'Jets passed over
right before the objects, only they were (F- 86) Sabres going
going north. They were much slower than the southbound objects
we saw.'"

"Mortar Platoon leader 2nd Lt. Bill Smith said, 'They didn't
have wings but they sounded similar to jets with their rumbling
sound. But they weren't--I know. They were going way too fast,
and they started down, tumbling to earth, as they got out of
view. Their trajectory before falling was flat and that proves
they weren't mortars. (mortar shells or rounds--J.T.) They
weren't jet gas tanks jettisoned off, either, as some theorized,
as their trajectory knocks this idea, too." (See the book
Advanced Aerial Devices Reported During the Korean War by
Richard F. Haines, LTDA Press, Los Altos, California, 1990, page
63.)


Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more
UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth,
brought to you by "the paper that goes home- -UFO Roundup." See
you then.


UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on
their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use
the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 3

                           Life at Little A'Le'Inn

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:26:47 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:51:33 -0400
Subject: Life at Little A'Le'Inn


Source: AP via The San Diego Union-Tribune, May 1, 2002,

http://www.uniontrib.com/news/state/20020430-2358-nv-alienhighway.html

Stig

***

Alien Highway leads past quirky cafe

ASSOCIATED PRESS

May 1, 2002

**

RACHEL, Nev. -- Aliens led Pat Travis to this tiny desert outpost
along the lonely Extraterrestrial Highway. She says she's even
seen some, though they were in the form of tourists.

Here at the Little A'Le'Inn bar, cafe and motel, smack dab in
the middle of nowhere, Travis' story isn't only believed, it's
welcomed.

"I've had people tell me they've been abducted in one of my
rooms," the owner says, pouring a glass of orange juice for a
customer. "I watched a craft for 20 minutes one night."

The 65 residents and the many tourists who find their way to
this oddity of a town near the top-secret military base Area 51
on the dry Groom Lake bed claim they've seen UFOs, aliens and
otherworldly occurrences.

Beams of light? Resident Charles Clark has seen it. Orange
glows? Yep, someone's seen that too. Little green men? Not yet,
but the night is still young.

Locals and visitors -- even ones not of this world -- find a
rhythm here in a quaint, friendly place where tall tales are
swapped over cold beers and $3.75 alien burgers.

"You can talk about aliens, you can talk about abductions,"
Travis says. "It makes it a totally different place."

Residents say the UFO talk began years ago when a Nevada Test
Site worker claimed he saw alien ships at nearby Area 51, the
Air Force base the military only recently acknowledged existed.

Word got around and the stories haven't stopped. Even the state
got in on the UFO lore, officially naming a 98-mile stretch of
state Route 375 the Extraterrestrial Highway in 1996 and
erecting green highway signs with images of spaceships.

Some 150 miles north of Las Vegas, across miles of empty desert
speckled by Joshua trees and sagebrush, Rachel is the only town
along the alien highway. It's really just a collection of
trailer homes resting on gravel near the mountain backdrop, but
the Little A'Le'Inn beckons curious and thirsty tourists from
the monotonous drive.

"Welcome earthlings and/or aliens. Please specify planet," reads
a sign on the white trailer with faded blue trim.

Here, cows have the right of way and the residents seem just a
bit more peculiar than most folks.

There's Clark, an astrophotographer whose idea of a good time is
to drive to the boundary of Area 51 and pester the guards.

"The majority of people who have lived here at one point or
another have seen things that are beyond explanation," he says,
taking his seat at the bar.

And then there's Travis, a former Las Vegas casino cook who
moved to Rachel 14 years ago from Las Vegas with her husband,
Joe, to take over the town's only bar. "You gotta be nuts,"
friends told the couple.

They remodeled the trailer and called it the Little A'Le'Inn.
Along with serving homemade meals, the couple filled the bar
with flying saucer pictures and alien souvenirs -- key chains,
shot glasses, bumper stickers, Area 51 fake ID cards, alien
slime in a tube, gooey aliens in a jar.

"Every business needs a gimmick," she likes to say.

It turned out to be just what tourists wanted. They come from
all over, enduring hours of highway boredom to sample a most
unusual world where strangers are always welcome. Even military
personnel working on the nearby ranges stop by, but rarely say
much.

"I think it's a possibility," tourist George Zoukee of Newbury,
N.H., says of UFO sightings. "Even if it isn't, it's a little
fun."

Grover Shegrud of Seattle shuffles in the back of the cafe,
sorting through Area 51 T-shirts. He hasn't had much luck
witnessing the paranormal. "Just dust devils," he mumbles.

Besides the Little A'Le'Inn, tourists usually make their way to
the border of Area 51, which consists of a no-trespassing sign,
surveillance camera and an armed guard on a hill. UFO and
conspiracy enthusiasts believe alien technology is hidden at the
remote base, about 20 miles southwest of Rachel.

Then there's the black mailbox, which is actually white. It's a
rancher's mailbox along the highway that has become a landmark
to stop and see Area 51 from afar. It was repainted years ago,
but it's still called the black mailbox around these parts.

The front door of the Little A'Le'Inn swings open again and
Bonny Barry, Rachel's newest resident, enters. She moved here
two weeks ago to work at the cafe, making her resident No. 65.

"I'm not egotistical enough as to think that God would only
create us," she says, pulling up a bar stool.

A few tourists nod.

Travis, 58, says she's met three aliens in her bar, though she
didn't know it until later. They were tourists, and one left a
note: "I am not of your world."

"How can we say things like this don't happen?" she asks.

A few more guests trickle in but by 10 p.m. residents have
returned to their trailers and visitors to their travels or
their rooms. The Little A'Le'Inn closes as the darkness of the
desert sky descends on the tiny trailer.

When daylight comes, Travis already is serving her tasty
pancakes to a group of campers as Elvis' "Return to Sender"
plays in the background.

"I've traveled the world being here," she says, leaning against
the counter in her green apron.

Joyce McClain spent a couple of nights parked in her RV behind
the Little A'Le'Inn and hoping for alien activity.

But, alas, no UFOs.

"I was hoping my husband would get abducted last night," she
giggles.

Something is out here in Rachel, but it's often not what
tourists expected to find.

So what if a beam of light is just sunlight gleaming off
discarded aluminum foil, or the loud noises are only sonic booms
from nearby military exercises.

This is a place to wonder, to swap stories and imagine close
encounters in a strange and endearing town where you never know
who -- or what -- you're going to meet.

**

On the Net:

Little A'Le'Inn: www.littlealeinn.com

**

=A9 Copyright 2002 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.







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   May > May 3

                   Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed! - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:12:13 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:00:13 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed! - Hamilton


 >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:39:39 -0700

 >For Immediate Release

 >***JONATHAN REED EXPOSED!***
 >UFOWATCHDOG.COM Exclusive Story

 >http://www.ufowatchdog.com/exposed10.html

<snip>

 >Those directly involved in investigating 'Jonathan Reed', those
 >actually having the nerve to call themselves investigators and
 >researchers, are a prime example of what is wrong with the UFO
 >field and why the subject is often ridiculed. For those so-
 >called researchers and investigators that reported their
 >findings to the public in support of 'Jonathan Reed' - there is
 >simply no excuse for poor, sloppy and incompetent investigative
 >work, whether by design or not.

 >During the scope of its investigation, UFOWATCHDOG.COM has
 >uncovered the true identity of "Dr. Jonathan Reed." For those
 >asserting to have verified that the person claiming to be 'Dr.
 >Jonathan Reed' was indeed that person, you will have much to
 >answer for...


Hmmm, I wish I could convince a couple of friends of that. They
tell me these fraud charges are not factual. One told me that
the alien armband device was housed in a security container that
cost thousands of $$! If true, whoever is behind this fraud is
pouring big bucks into it.

- Bill Hamilton






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                   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:09:38 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:41:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hamilton


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:12:19 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
 >>>Subject: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>Greeting Bill, List and Readers

 >><snip>

 >>>Here is what was presented by Don:

 >>>Almost fifty-five years and four explanations have past and
 >>>still the Roswell crash of 1947 remains one of the greatest
 >>>mysteries of all time. Within recent years there has been a
 >>>proliferation of anti-Roswell books that are not only debunking
 >>>but resort to nothing less than pure character assassination.

 >>When allegations of "Character Assassination" come from
 >>researchers like Don Schmitt, we definitely have ourselves a
 >>Kettle-Black situation. If Don was referring to comments about
 >>him, he has only himself to blame. It was not the skeptic
 >>community that lied about his education, employment, and
 >>especially his Roswell-related research, methods and
 >>conclusions. His history of distortion is so well known, I
 >>wonder at the level of support he receives today.

 >>"...I do not now believe anything that Schmitt says and neither
 >>should you."

 >>(Kevin Randle - in his To Whom It May Concern Letter dated Sept
 >>10, 1995)

 >>If Don was referring to Maj. Jessie Marcel: Again, it was
 >>Jessie, and no one else, that told people like Moore and Pratt
 >>some pretty wild tales about his education and military record.
 >>It has been claimed many times by researchers that Jessie had no
 >>reason to lie about what he found on Foster's Ranch. But then,
 >>it is equally true that he had no reason to inflate his military
 >>record either.

 >Bruce, Bill, List, All -

 >I find myself a little puzzled here. I have waited for some sort
 >of response to this suggestion that Don Schmitt has lied about
 >his background, education, occupation, parts of his Roswell
 >investigation and the like, yet no one seems willing to
 >challenge Bruce on these points. It seems to me that we are in
 >agreement about this.

 >Bill, I don't mean to single you out, but when you attended the
 >lecture, were you aware of the baggage that Schmitt brought to
 >it? If not, then what is your reaction now, to the information
 >he presented? Do you find it to be credible? I am interested in
 >why anyone would listen to a thing he has to say, given what we
 >know about him.

Yes, partially. I know he lied about his background. In all
fairness, his lecture was fairly straight forward, not much
elaboration on the story given in your books. Surprised?
Maybe he wasn't taking any chances going out on a limb.
The only thing that sounded a little different to me was
the story of 2 alien bodies found 2.5 miles from the debris
field. This I have not heard or read anywhere!

 >This, I believe, moves into the realm of one of Dick Hall's
 >points about taking Ufology mainstream. How can we expect the
 >scientific and journalistic communities to listen to us when
 >some of those on the lecture circuit not only aren't telling the
 >truth, they have admitted they weren't telling the truth, and
 >turn up time and again selling their new and improved stories?

 >Don Schmitt and Tom Carey have interviewed more than 600
 >witnesses... is Schmitt counting in that number dozens who I
 >interviewed when he was somewhere else doing something else?
 >Does this count the new witness they identified as "Tex" who
 >tells a tale that doesn't quite fit into anything and who
 >probably should have been identified as "Swede?"

 >We are now going over the same material. I could name a dozen
 >people whose stories have been exposed but we still schedule
 >them to lecture, we still sit in the audience, nodding and
 >agreeing, even when we know the person has lied about his
 >background or his education, or his top secret clearances. We
 >don't challenge any of these people and when they are rightly
 >challenged, then their colleagues leap up screaming "character
 >assassination." Well, it's not character assassination when
 >you're telling the truth.

 >On the other hand, Don Schmitt, while we were still working
 >together, told a number of people not to talk to me because he
 >suspected that I was a government agent planted on him. Here was
 >my friend telling people I was a spy and not to be trusted.
 >Since I'm not a government agent nor was I planted on him, would
 >this then be character assassination?

Ahh, who is the real government agent? Will he please stand up.
Seems like a line from the old TV show, "what's my line?" To set
your mind to rest I, too, have been accused of being an agent
for the CIA. Must have been without pay.

 >Yes, Bruce and I disagree on Jesse Marcel. Bill Moore, who
 >originated some of these stories has provided, in one case,
 >three different versions of a single Marcel quote. He has
 >described his own book as a disgraceful hodgepodge of fact and
 >fiction. He claims to have inside sources and worked for the
 >AFOSI as an unpaid agent. Here again is another person who is
 >still quoted as if he as anything to say that might be of
 >relevance to us.

I talked in person with Bill Moore several times and over the
phone as well. Sometimes he said some very outrageous things,
and other times would become extremely conservative in his
remarks. Sometimes he evaded answering. Strange guy. Can't even
find him now.

 >Yes, I think that if Jesse Marcel was still alive, we might find
 >simple answers to our questions, but today we don't have that
 >luxury. I think most of the trouble comes from simple
 >misunderstandings, but that is just an opinion about this.

 >But this discussion has devolved to a point where Bruce's
 >original statements have been lost. We aren't talking about
 >Schmitt and his new and improved Roswell story, but talking
 >about whether or not the pictures in Ramey's office show a rawin
 >and a weather balloon (Sorry, Ed, but it is a weather balloon
 >and rawin). We should be examining how it is that Schmitt can
 >find a venue and that people won't challenge what he says about
 >the case.

And not a Mogul balloon and train, right?

 >Until we clean our own house, no one is going to listen to us.
 >We're going to remain the lunatic conspiracy fringe whose
 >positive evidence gets buried under the rubble of those who lie
 >to us... and we're all so dumb that we'll just sign up for more
 >lies.

 >If we want to move on, then we must encourage real debate rather
 >than shouting down those whose opinions differ from our own. I
 >know how that is because no one wants to listen to the
 >possibility that some alien abductions might be terrestrially
 >based, meaning there are mundane explanations for them. No one
 >wants to seriously discuss this. Instead the shouting begins.

I think you are right if you mean that some abductions have a
psychological explanation, but I do not think this applies
across the board by a long shot.

 >So, that's where we are. We do not intelligently debate, we
 >embrace those who lie to us, and we will not tolerate dissent.
 >We must accept all parts of the UFO field from animal
 >mutilations to crop circles to the wildest of the conspiracies
 >without question and we must attack those who suggest that a
 >mundane explanation might fit the facts better. (No, I am not
 >suggesting here that I believe the Mogul explanation and yes, I
 >am slightly overstating the case but I certainly can offer
 >examples.)

 >So, people, just why are we listening to Don Schmitt? I'd like
 >to know the reason for it.

People also listen to Ed Dames, Sean David Morton, David Icke,
Jonathan Reed, and an endless parade of these jokers. Some of
them must be entertaining. Perhaps Don is trying to entertain.
Art Bell says that his show is mainly 'entertainment' and
entertainment has no obligation to fact or truth.


- Bill Hamilton







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   May > May 3

                   Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed! - Andersen

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:22:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 12:01:26 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed! - Andersen


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:12:13 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!


 >Hmmm, I wish I could convince a couple of friends of that. They
 >tell me these fraud charges are not factual. One told me that
 >the alien armband device was housed in a security container that
 >cost thousands of $$! If true, whoever is behind this fraud is
 >pouring big bucks into it.

Its been a long four years getting this guy, Bill. All along
there were just too many inconsistencies and here it was a case
right in my own backyard.

Nothing matched, the weather conditions, the "cast players".
People stating they were members of CUFOS and MUFON when they
weren't.

I received a threatening phone call recently which I reported.
Others have too.

It was actually a sad day yesterday, when Royce and I were on
Jeff Rense, to have to tell the truth about Reed/Rutter/Ruttre.

You feel like someone has definately made a fool out of Ufology.
And housing the bracelet? Nah... its another tall tale.


Kathleen Andersen
MUFON








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   May > May 3

                     Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:32:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 12:04:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Clark


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 21:57:53 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:49:48 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman

 >>Let me repeat: The Pelican made a charge which is false. When I
 >>pointed that out, we learned that it was a "joke" and those who
 >>didn't recognize it as such - everybody except you and your
 >>winged friend - is accused (what else?) of lacking a sense of
 >>humor.

 >And apart from Jerry, those people incapable of seeing it as a
 >joke would be ... ?

I'm afraid just about everybody, John. At least this time you've
spared us the additional canard that John Keel was also just
joking.


Jerry Clark







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   May > May 3

                Re: Dave & Andy's Not So Weird World! - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:37:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 22:52:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Dave & Andy's Not So Weird World! - Hale


 >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Dave & Andy's Not So Weird World!
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:58:15 +0100

 >People may be interested in the following article which is the
 >lead story in the Ministry of Defence's in house Journal, Focus.
 >It features details of the Flying Saucer Working Party and is
 >written up by Tony Matthews, of D News, the MoDs press agency.

Hi All,

Am I possibly the only one who welcomes the MoDs latest
transparency on the UFO subject?


Roy..


Roy Hale is Web Master of
The Lost Haven http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk
And Editor of: Down To Earth Magazine.

Articles On the UFO Subject,  Buy On Line Research CDs,
FREE Downloads, Business Marketing, Web Links,
Art & Culture and much more!






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                   Re: Krauss NY Times Article - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 22:58:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Krauss NY Times Article - Hamilton


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Krauss NY Times Article
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:53:11 -0300

 >This was in Tuesday's NY Times (in the weekly Science section);
 >the author is head of the physics department at Case Western
 >University:

 >It was sent me by Bob Pratt.

 >-----

 >The New York Times - Science

 >Tuesday, April 30, 2002

 >Odds Are Stacked When Science Tries To Debate Pseudoscience

 >By LAWRENCE M. KRAUSS

<snip>

 >We may not know how spacecraft of the future will be propelled,
 >whether matter-antimatter drives will be built or even if time
 >travel is possible. But we do know, absolutely, how much on-
 >board fuel will be needed to speed up a substantial spacecraft
 >to near the speed of light an enormous amount, probably enough
 >to power all of human civilization at the present time for
 >perhaps a decade.

This gives immediate insight into his thinking. He is thinking
'fuel'. He is thinking 'symmetrical' propulsion. He is thinking
in the stone-age. There are serious engineers and experimenters
who are tinkering with devices that use no fuel, have no reaction
mass, and which move quite quickly when power is applied. Think
'acceleration' with no resistance.

 >That means that aliens who want to come here from a distant star
 >will probably have to have some better reason than merely
 >performing secret kinky experiments on the patients of a Harvard
 >psychiatrist.

Why is it always assumed that they come here from a distant star
or planet everytime a trUFO is spotted? Not very innovative
thinking here. Perhaps there is a nearby base of operations.
Perhaps they can hide better than we can. Consider the
possibilities outside of the stilted framework that Krauss uses.

 >As difficult as debating ultimate limits of the possible may be,
 >there is another debate that is even harder to win. But it is a
 >debate that may be even more important. It is a debate on the
 >"fairness" of science. The reason for the difficulty is simple.
 >Science is not fair. All ideas are not treated equally. Only
 >those that have satisfied the test of experiment or can be
 >tested by experiment have any currency. Beautiful ideas, elegant
 >ideas and even sacrosanct notions are not immune from
 >termination by the chilling knife edge of experimental data.

Like 'String' theory or M-theory?

 >In Ohio, a debate is raging over whether to teach "intelligent
 >design" alongside evolution in high school biology classes.
 >Intelligent design is based on the belief that life is too
 >complicated to explain by natural causes alone and that some
 >intelligence, ultimately some divine intelligence, must have
 >created the original life forms on earth or guided their
 >development.

Some of the arguments for intelligent design are potent and
maybe deserving of consideration and does not always suggest we
dispense with evolution so Krauss has not familiarized himself
with the arguments, and I am no creationist. Neither was Sir
Fred Hoyle and some others who found evidence of ID.

 >Proponents of that idea suggest that including it in the
 >curriculum is simply a question of fairness. If a significant
 >number of people do not believe that evolution provides an
 >adequate explanation of the origin of species, they argue, then
 >it is only fair to present both sides of the argument in a high
 >school science class.

It doesn't and some biologists, while not proponents of ID, are
leaving the ranks in favor of panspermia. Microbiology did not
exist in Darwin's day. Many biologist admit there is a problem
with explaining macroevolution (not microevolution or the small
changes that even humans produce in breeding animals), but a
gradual change that accounts for the Origin of Species. Maybe it
isn't so gradual and maybe it isn't limited to the terrestrial
biosphere.

 >But at least half of Americans polled in a recent survey by the
 >National Science Foundation did not know that Earth orbits the
 >Sun, and that it takes a year to do so. Does this mean we should
 >teach that Earth is the center of the universe? Of course not.
 >It merely means that we are not doing a very good job informing
 >the public about physics.

So people are ignorant. Jay Leno has demonstrated this with his
pop quizes on the streets of Hollywood like:

How many planets are there in our solar system?
Answers: 10,000, 12, 4, and even 9!

How many continents are there?
Ans: 5, 3, 12, 7

 >Science is not a democratic process. It does not proceed by
 >majority rule and it does not accept notions that have already
 >been disproven by experiment.

 >Intelligent design makes assertions that cannot be tested by
 >experiment. Those assertions that can be tested, say about blood
 >clotting or the claimed irreducible complexity of various
 >components of cells, seem to have thus far failed those tests.
 >So intelligent design does not belong in a science class. End of
 >story.

Whoa, not so end of story. Results of experiments are
interpreted. Using mathematical measurements plus philosophical
arguments seem to justify many positions. Irreducible complexity
is an idea. It says that if you remove one component from a
molecular machine then that machine won't function. So, how do
get a gradual change from less complex to more? If I remove the
starter from my car, it won't work or the a wheel from my
bicycle - that is all that it says. There is much more on this
but it is being resisted because many of its proponents are
involved in Christian theologies (not all are, but that is
enough to convince scientists to dismiss it).

 >Nevertheless, recently the Ohio State School Board felt it
 >necessary to run a hearing on evolution vs. intelligent design
 >in a debate format, with two proponents of evolution to face off
 >against two advocates of intelligent design in Columbus.

 >One might think that I would know better than to agree to
 >participate in such a debate. But I did, because I felt the
 >education of schoolchildren in Ohio was so important.

 >Nevertheless, I tried to learn from my earlier mistakes. Merely
 >having a debate inevitably suggests that each side has some
 >credibility. As a result, opponents of the scientific method
 >like creationists try very hard to appear in debates with
 >scientists. Merely being on the same stage represents a victory!

 >I made sure that I emphasized this intrinsic inequity in my
 >opening remarks in Columbus, and it colored much of the
 >subsequent discussion, as well as the later reporting of the
 >event. I do not know whether it was sufficient to let listeners
 >focus on whether there was really anything worth debating in the
 >first place. But it at least allowed for that possibility.

 >In the meantime, for those scientists who find themselves thrust
 >in such public debates, I have found at least one useful tool.
 >When debating U.F.O. experts, ask them whether they believe in
 >"Young Earth Creationism." When debating young earth
 >creationists, ask them whether they believe in alien U.F.O.'s.
 >When they say no, ask why. Their answers will inevitably shed
 >light on the weakness of their own positions.

And should we ask Mr. Krauss why he doesn't believe in cold
fusion despite positive experimental evidence? His weakness is
revealed in his belief that his brand of science is the only
brand and is the only road to truth. Sounds like bias to me.

I am in many e-groups with scientists who cannot even agree on
theories in physics. You think physics should be a pat subject
by now, but there are raging arguments going on all the time.
Cosmology too. Biology too. And Psychology? The fact is these
areas of study are subject to human emotion and reaction. No
surprise here.


- Bill Hamilton








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   May > May 3

              Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:03:46 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 23:01:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Hamilton


 >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
 >To: updates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:58:43 -0500 (CDT)
 >Subject: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >In an interview in the online shmag Pop Politics, longtime
 >Cincinatti UFO investigator Jerry Black made these comments on
 >the current state of ufology:

 >http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2001-04-26-black.shtml

 >................................................................

 >Armed with the determination of Mulder and Scully, Black tries
 >to expose the hoaxes and false claims and focuses on the cases
 >that, even after thorough investigation, remain mysteries. Hes
 >aware that his is a lifestyle largely misunderstood -- and
 >maligned -- by the public, and he blames the glut of
 >misinformation marketed each year to UFO enthusiasts.

 >"The industry has kind of gone to pot," the 61-year-old Black
 >says wearily, referring to the amount of misleading information
 >and unsubstantiated claims perpetrated, he says, in books like
 >Intruders by Budd Hopkins, an account of human abductions, and
 >Whitley Striebers bestseller, Communion: A True Story, which was
 >adapted into a 1989 feature-length film starring Christopher
 >Walken.

 >"It seems like everybody out there is more interested in money
 >than telling the truth about UFOs," Black says.


Oh, and what is your brand of truth, Mr. Black? (rhetorical)
Shall we ask Dr. Maccabee?

-Bill






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                  Re: International UFO Petition - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:13:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 23:06:16 -0400
Subject: Re: International UFO Petition - Lehmberg


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:14:25 +0100
 >Subject: Re: International UFO Petition

 >>From: Scott Santa <ssanta@neo.rr.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:41:49 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: International UFO Petition

 >>Thank you for letting me know of the petition..... I had no
 >>idea that this particular petition was being offered.

<snip>

 >Can anyone explain to me what is the point of these petitions to
 >governmental and quasi-governmental bodies?

It's a pro-active effort by the otherwise powerless, Mr. Rimmer,
to do something lawful about a degree of ignorance so
egregiously obvious and detrimental to the aggregate human
spirit that it cannot be countenanced. Some of us, offended by
individuals obviously comfortable with the in-active status quo,
are looking for any ethical way we can to raise the
consciousness of our fellows to force the issue. A petition to
the UN is just one such ethical activity.

Some of us may "diet for disclosure".

Some of us start message boards and lists.

Some of us write bad poetic commentary.

Some of us publicly share our experiences and stories.

Some of us host quality investigative radio programs.

Some of us host creative non-fiction web sites...

Other activities _abound_, Mr. Rimmer, but they are all created
to counter the efforts of a highjacked mainstream engaged in the
enrichment of the few at the expense of the many. These few are
typified by conflicted individuals so crippled by their self-
  absorbed Aristotelianism that they cannot see their hands in
front of their upturned noses.

Jerry Clark points out (in a way) that a lot of these conflicted
individuals, bereft of an efficacious imagination and a wallow
in their own canted hubris, can be found overseas (across the
Channel from The Continent?). These are a stuffy bunch, smirking
up their sleeves as they keep the ufological giggle factor high
by celebrating the explainable usual while ignoring the
unexplained unusual... Consider the petition to be a bun in
_that_ greasy oven, Mr. Rimmer.

 >There seems to have
 >been one every couple of years since I was involved in ufology.
 >None of them appear to have had any measurable result. Why is
 >this one different?

It's not, really. But then neither are the individuals that
counter the damn things, question their effectiveness, or write
smirky essays essaying their validity. 'A' petition smells
better than 'no' petition.

At the very least this petition is a statement that we're
getting "mad as hell", are insulted by the cowardice of our
institutions (government and otherwise), and we're getting
closer to "not [being able to]... take it anymore." Added to the
ufological scale with _other_ efforts, the petition (or
something like it) just may be the straw that breaks that
officious camel's back!

...Sign the damned petition. Thanks.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com
~~=D6~~

EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







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                     Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 18:38:20 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 23:12:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer


 >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:49:48 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman

 >>>Let me repeat: The Pelican made a charge which is false. When I
 >>>pointed that out, we learned that it was a "joke" and those who
 >>>didn't recognize it as such - everybody except you and your
 >>>winged friend - is accused (what else?) of lacking a sense of
 >>>humor.

 >>And apart from Jerry, those people incapable of seeing it as a
 >>joke would be ... ?

 >I'm afraid just about everybody, John. At least this time you've
 >spared us the additional canard that John Keel was also just
 >joking.


Mere assertion, jerry. You twll peolple off for that sort of thing!

[sic, sic, sic--ebk]

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk







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             Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young/Black

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:57:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 23:36:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young/Black


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:20:49 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>Armed with the determination of Mulder and Scully, Black tries
 >>to expose the hoaxes and false claims and focuses on the cases
 >>that, even after thorough investigation, remain mysteries. Hes
 >>aware that his is a lifestyle largely misunderstood -- and
 >>maligned -- by the public, and he blames the glut of
 >>misinformation marketed each year to UFO enthusiasts.

 >>"The industry has kind of gone to pot," the 61-year-old Black
 >>says wearily, referring to the amount of misleading information
 >>and unsubstantiated claims perpetrated, he says, in books like
 >>Intruders by Budd Hopkins, an account of human abductions
 >....

 >>"It seems like everybody out there is more interested in money
 >>than telling the truth about UFOs," Black says.

 >I would hope that Black has been misquoted here.

 >One may agree or disagree with Budd Hopkins makes of the
 >abduction phenomenon, but to slander this transparently honest,
 >decent, and dedicated man as a crass moneygrubber is really
 >beyond the pale. This sort of casual trashing of others is one
 >reason ufology has "kind of gone to pot". If critics can't be
 >bothered with honest criticism, we really are in trouble.


Jerry, List;

I spoke with Jerry Black this afternoon and he authorized the
following reply:

"I feel I was not quoted entirely correctly with the suggestion
that everyone in Ufology is a money-grubber. In fact, I feel
that Budd Hopkins is one of the gentlemen in Ufology I feel is
not necessarily concerned with making money.

However, that does not change my view on the work of Budd
Hopkins in the field of Ufology. I feel that Budd Hopkins wants
to believe so badly that the UFO phenomena is extraterrestrial
in origin that he neglects serious investigation and research
into the subject that he basically becomes, in my view, a UFO
reporter.

  In my opinion, Hopkins truly believes the people that he
interviews for his books are telling him the truth as they know
it to be. However, he does no serious investigation and research
to determine if these stories are accurate.

Keep in mind that as of May 3, 2002, we have not proven what
this UFO phenomena represents, contrary to the many statements
put out there by lead investigators such as Stanton Friedman,
Kevin Randle, Bruce Maccabee and other notables in the field of
Ufology who routinely state matter-of-factly that this phenomena
absolutely represents extraterrestrials from another planet."


This concludes Jerry's response.

Kenny Young







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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:51:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 23:39:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 21:26:51 -0300

 >As I recall, Black was the one who made outrageous charges about
 >Bruce Maccabee, Gulf Breeze, and related matters. He sure was
 >grinding his own axe. and flailing about against all who didn't
 >buy his conclusions.

 >Stan Friedman

Stan;

Jerry Black is a stand-up guy and it's sad to see all the years
of his research into the Gulf Breeze hoax be debunked so
thoughtlessly by yourself and other 'nationals' in UFOdumb. As
of recent we see that the case of Jonathan Reed's 'alien in the
freezer' stunt netted an estimated 20 to 40,000 books being sold
at $40 a pop (if you didn't tune in to Royce J. Myers III on the
Jeff Rense show last night you should try to hear it).

This Reed Hoax is todays current version of what we have seen
before in Gulf Breeze, and is (or should be!) a lesson for us
all.

That you would so attempt to trash Black's exposure of the Gulf
Breeze travesty as "outrageous" is saddening. In my opinion,
it's not grinding an axe but attempting to lay out the truth for
today and future generations. I fear you may be on the wrong
side of this issue.


Take care,

Kenny Young







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                      McMinnville UFO Fest This Weekend

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 23:52:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 23:44:45 -0400
Subject: McMinnville UFO Fest This Weekend


Source: The Register-Guard (Eugene, Oregon), May 3, 2002,

http://www.registerguard.com/news/20020503/tk.screenside.0503.html

Stig

***

May 3, 2002

Side Show: Screen

<snip>

UFO

EXCERPTS from nine documentaries about UFO sightings, alien
abductions and other unexplained phenomena will be shown between
9 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. Saturday at the Mack Theatre in
McMinnville.

Admission is free, and viewers will vote to see which film gets
the Mack Award for Best UFO Documentary of 2002. Everyone who
attends will receive a free CD of music composed by UFO
enthusiast Tom Hansen.

The screenings are part of the city's third annual UFO Fest,
which is taking place this weekend. Film festival organizer
Randy Haragan says nearly all of the films have been released
within the past two years.

The films are "Best UFO Sightings of the 1990s," "Evidence: The
Case for NASA UFOs," "Life on Mars - Latest Photos," "Rods - The
Smoking Gun Evidence," "Crop Circle Signs," "The Edge of
Reality: Illinois Flying Triangle, Jan. 5, 2002," "The UFO
Files," "UFO Abductions - A Global Phenomenon" and "UFO Pilot
Sightings."

For more information, contact Haragan at (503) 649-5571 or

randy@theufostore.com

**

Copyright =A9 2002 The Register-Guard







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                     HBCC UFO: Ottawa 04-17-02 Sighting

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 15:40:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 23:43:38 -0400
Subject: HBCC UFO: Ottawa 04-17-02 Sighting


Hi List

Just received this report by way of email. Will be looking into
it. Will keep you posted.

Brian

-----

On Saturday April 17/02 Ottawa Ont, Canada Montreal Rd. across
from graveyard. I was on my lunch break [12:30p.m.] I looked up
to see what looked like a small airplane coming from the north-
east. As it got closer I noticed that it was ova- shaped and
changing color - from black to silver. It was rolling or rocking
side to side as it changed color. It was traveling about 300 feet
high as it flew behind a cloud and disappeared.


Sincerely

Name deleted by HBCC UFO







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                   Pascagoula Audio File (Hickson/Parker)

From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:43:31 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 00:23:34 -0400
Subject: Pascagoula Audio File (Hickson/Parker)


Errol and Listers:

The historic audio clip of the Hickman/Parker interview by the
Pascagoula Sheriff's Department after their abduction
experience has graciously been hosted on Steven Kaeser's audio
clip page.  Anyone who would like to listen to this clip may
download it at:

http://www.konsulting.com/audio_clips.htm.

This file has been compressed with MPEG-3 technology and is 5.4
MB in size. Be sure to adjust your sound level, bass and treble
for your listening levels. A reminder that the recording is
substandard and Steven will be attempting to enhance it more
when he has time.

Those who are unable to download this file because of its size
may obtain a copy on CD from Wendy Connors for $10. If you would
like to donate a few dollars toward the efforts of preserving
these recordings, it would be greatly appreciated. Wendy may be
contacted at:

Wendy Connors
P.O. Box 8552
Albuquerque, NM 87198

If anyone has any problems, please let Steven know. Of course,
if everyone teams up and decides to download at the same time,
Steven's system will probably have a spaz attack. <g>

If someone wishes to link to Steven's page, or any of its files,
please let him know as a courtesy.

The first batch of CD's ordered by List Members have been mailed
and you should either have them by now or will receive it in a
few days.


Thank You,

Wendy Connors & Steven Kaeser







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                    Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:47:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 00:28:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 05:48:24 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 01:58:23 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

Hi Eleanor,

May I just start by say it make's a change to have a good honest
debate with someone who's not plugging a book, name dropping or
back stabbing.

 >>>I pray that UFO researchers and activists will not be swayed by
 >>>what is (my opinion) blatant disinformation and an attempt to
 >>>keep the lid on many research fields including UFOs.

 >>Why would you think this is disinformation? It was a survey
 >>carried out by the National Science Foundation. If you think
 >>these people are 'in on it' do a bit of digging, see if you can
 >>blow the lid off their little game.

 >As a researcher in other fields where government cover ups have
 >been a way of life (examples: human radiation experiments,
 >MKULTRA, COINTELPRO to name a few) the pattern is obvious. The
 >tragedy is that the work of so many UFO and abduction
 >researchers is the target of a group who up close and
 >personally, know better.

If I were the group (whoever the group may be) I would not have
to do anything with regard to UFO researchers.

I'm sure you must have noticed how self destructive the UFO
community can be.

 >>I think this was a proper report, the concern being not only
 >>that a high percentage of people rest their faith in
 >>pseudoscience but that a high percentage of people know so
 >>little about science fact.

 >Since when is ESP research pseudoscience? Or Ufology? Or remote
 >viewing? Or plant EEG readings that react to other organisms in
 >distress? Or electronic voice phenomena recorded on tape? Or
 >hauntings recorded on tape and electromagnetic disturbances
 >recorded to match?

 >These are areas where the results cannot be produced by every
 >experimenter or produced every time. That in no way means they
 >are "imagnary", just more difficult for science to work on.

 >The fact is that the old scientific method, the one that denies
 >that the universe is affected at a distance by living beings
 >within it, is not adequate for serious study of this "new" class
 >of events. The NSF needs to be reminded of this, loudly and
 >often.

Did any psychics predict 9/11? it was a world shattering event,
but no, for some reason they only pick up on the vague things,
there will be an earthquake somewhere in the US between the
months of etc, etc...

 >>>"Psycho-social phenomena" don't show up on radar or burn circles
 >>>where the "psycho-social phenomenon landed" or shut down ICBM
 >>>control systems.

 >>I don't think anyone doubts that, but here's the bit: What did?

 >The presence of UFOs in the area, apparently. Such appearances
 >routinely stop electrical equipment from working.

This is my point exactly, my question was meaning what created
the cause to your example effects?

Your answer is basically saying, the presence of something that
is unidentified.

In other words, your guess is as good as mine.

Who'd have thought back in the 40's that by the year 2002 the
UFO would still remain unidentified.

Ghost's are witnessed but are still unexplained.

The Loch Ness monster has yet to be caught, as are Big foot and
the Yeti.

 >>We can go on a month of Sunday's discussing the effect but no
 >>one has so far been able to come up with the cause.
 >
 >Ever wonder why?

Do you know why?? if the answer involves 'the group' again I
don't think I want to know.

 >What I am trying to do is urge UFO researchers, many of whom
 >have literally poured their lives into their work, to shout back
 >at NSF or any other agency that promulgates such nonsense
 >"OBJECTION!", as a trial lawyer would, and stop taking this crap
 >laying down!

I also urge researchers to keep at it no matter what.
I know a few who have done exactly what you're saying and poured
their whole lives into it.

But this raises another problem, some of them have poured their
lives into a belief that the lights in the sky are of alien
origin.

Whether they're right or wrong they have a lot invested in this,
the whole thing is like some sort of religious faith to them.
These are the people the media latch on to, no conspiracies,
just an entertaining 'end of segment' piece.


Happy hunting,

Dave Bowden






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                            UFO Viewing Platform

From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 22:07:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 01:04:35 -0400
Subject: UFO Viewing Platform


When we are finished building this we will have a civilian
platform in space suitable for viewing everything that comes to
and goes from earth.

We are getting ready to build a solar furnace and place it in
solar orbit.

We are a non-profit private organization.

To date the only people that have offered major funding have
been the military. Tt seems they are interested in the fact that
this device is an infinitly variable continuous laser that
operates in the terawatt energy range.

The sad truth is that the governments of the world do not want
civilians in space - too hard to tax them.

If we are to colonize the final frontier we will have to do it
as a civilian project. Saving the planet cannot be left to the
governments of the world, they lack the will to do it.

There is a movement to build a huge solar furnace in close solar
orbit, details can be seen at:

http://solarfurnace.netfirms.com

We intend to follow the old axiom 'Keep it simple, stupid'.

The energy will be transmitted to earth by a laser that would
supply energy in the terawatt range. Only a small percent of
this energy could supply the earth with all of the energy that
it needs.

We intend to use the rest of this energy to cleanse the
atmosphere of pollutants, including those that cause global
warming. We intend to do this by converting the sunlight into
millions of continuous lasers of all the different wavelengths
of light. Separation of the wavelengths will be done with
fresnel lenses and optical fibers.

In effect we will be able to target pollutants with the optimal
wavelengths to destroy them. We will send the wavelengths
through the stratosphere (not striking earth) and back out into
space. We intend to do this without governmental or industrial
help as they have had 40 years in space and have done nothing
useful in this area.

Space station workers will be chosen from those who have worked
on the machine while it was on earth and know, understand and
can repair every life support system on the station.

We would appreciate any help that you would be willing to give.

This is not a commercial enterprise, this is being done for
everyones benefit. Anyone wishing to get more information or
want's to help can contact us at the email adresses

stcfarms@netexpress.net

or

locomukwa@core.com

The time for endless discussion has come to an end, talk will
not get us where we are going.

Please pass this on to anyone that might be interested.


Thank you,


Jerry Scovel







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              Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 23:57:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 01:31:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee


 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:51:52 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 21:26:51 -0300

 >>As I recall, Black was the one who made outrageous charges about
 >>Bruce Maccabee, Gulf Breeze, and related matters. He sure was
 >>grinding his own axe. and flailing about against all who didn't
 >>buy his conclusions.

 >Jerry Black is a stand-up guy and it's sad to see all the years
 >of his research into the Gulf Breeze hoax be debunked so
 >thoughtlessly by yourself and other 'nationals' in UFOdumb. As
 >of recent we see that the case of Jonathan Reed's 'alien in the
 >freezer' stunt netted an estimated 20 to 40,000 books being sold
 >at $40 a pop (if you didn't tune in to Royce J. Myers III on the
 >Jeff Rense show last night you should try to hear it).>

 >This Reed Hoax is todays current version of what we have seen
 >before in Gulf Breeze, and is (or should be!) a lesson for us
 >all.

 >That you would so attempt to trash Black's exposure of the Gulf
 >Breeze travesty as "outrageous" is saddening. In my opinion,
i>t's not grinding an axe but attempting to lay out the truth for
 >today and future generations. I fear you may be on the wrong
 >side of this issue.

As a long time researcher of Gulf Breeze I would have to say that
Jerry Black may be a "stand up guy", but in the Gulf Breeze case
he is wrong. Of course all of the arguments have been presented
ad nauseum in previous years and can be accessed in the Archives of
UFO UpDates.

See also my web site for information on other Gulf Breeze cases:

http://brumac.8k.com







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               Prometheus - Another 'Invaluable' Contribution

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 11:30:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 11:30:34 -0400
Subject: Prometheus - Another 'Invaluable' Contribution


Source: Prometheus Books

http://www.prometheusbooks.com/site/new.html

The Encyclopedic Sourcebook of UFO Religions

....
Edited by James R. Lewis
....

The macabre mass suicide by adherents of the Heaven's Gate Cult
in 1997 was shocking and difficult to comprehend for most
outsiders. Their bizarre mindset, which mixed New Age religion
with belief in extraterrestrial visitation, struck many as
unique. In fact, as the contributors to this intriguing study
show, the belief in alien contact has had religious overtones
since the first purported sighting of an unidentified flying
object (UFO) in 1947. Moreover, the religious dimensions of the
UFO phenomenon may be the key to understanding the widespread
appeal of this modern craze.

An expert in new religions, Professor James Lewis has here
brought together twenty insightful articles that cover the many
variations of UFO-based religions. What the contributors
demonstrate is that there are persistent and salient themes
underlying the diversity of beliefs centered on the UFO
phenomenon. Hearkening back to theosophy, many groups have
interpreted UFO sightings and alleged contacts as attempts by
alien ambassadors from a more advanced civilization to bring
spiritual enlightenment to Earth, where humanity is seen to be
floundering in ignorance. The extraterrestrial message is
usually channeled through a charismatic human leader, who then
mobilizes a group around this New Age 'revelation'.

The Encyclopedic Sourcebook of UFO Religions discusses the
histories and beliefs of prominent UFO-based sects; looks at
group dynamics and other sociological factors; and presents
selections from the unusual literature of the various groups.

This revealing and disturbing study shows that there is much
more to the UFO phenomenon than simple curiosity about the
possibility of life on other planets.

James R. Lewis (Stevens Point, WI), a world-recognized authority
on nontraditional religions, teaches religious studies at the
University of Wisconsin, and is the author or editor of over 20
books, including Odd Gods: New Religions and the Cult
Controversy; Doomsday Prophecies; and The Encyclopedia of Cults,
Sects, and New Religions. ....
....
PAGES: 600 pp
COMMENTS:
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CATEGORY: Science & The Paranormal






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                    Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:44:53 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 20:03:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In


 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience
 >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:47:35 +0100

<snip>

 >The Loch Ness monster has yet to be caught, as are
 >Big foot and
 >the Yeti.

<snip>

I recently read Michael Shermer's "Why People Believe Weird
Things," a mostly excellent book that (mercifully) doesn't
attempt to deal with the UFO phenomenon esxept for one
condescending chapter...

WHY PEOPLE BELIEVE WEIRD THINGS Michael Shermer
reviewed by Mac Tonnies

Michael Shermer's "Why People Believe Weird Things" contains
only one chapter on "aliens" and UFOs - which is fortunate, as
he appears to know next to nothing about the subject. (He states
that the 'Alien Autopsy' film is the best evidence offered by
proponents of the ET hypothesis and proceeds to dismiss the
entire subject in a few pages.)

Thankfully, Shermer moves on to areas where he is indeed an
expert (i.e., "scientific creationism" and Holocaust denial),
resulting in a lucid and highly readable volume that asks
essential questions about the scientific process and people's
ability to suspend common sense.

Shermer's trenchant perspective on Ayn Rand's "cult of
personality" is especially enjoyable, as are his insights into
"witch-crazes" old and new. (Shermer argues that episodes of
mass paranoia are based on social feedback loops that cause them
to dissipate almost as quickly as they begin.)

'Why People Belive Weird Things' is a heartfelt and disturbingly
funny book that belongs on the shelf next to Carl Sagan's 'The
Demon-Haunted World' and Alex Heard's 'Apocalypse Pretty Soon'.

http://mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html








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                     Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 07:43:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 20:04:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Pelicanman vs. Mothman - Rimmer

 >Mere assertion, jerry. You twll peolple off for that sort of thing!

 >[sic, sic, sic--ebk]

Sorry, that dreadful time difference again. Typed at 1.00 a.m.
after a long journey!

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk







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                 Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart

From: Daydisk2@webtv.net (Chaz Stuart)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:15:03 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 20:06:43 -0400
Subject: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart


Bruce, Jerome, Stan, List:

I have known Jerry Black longer and better than anyone on this
List, even my friend Kenny Young, and must concur with Kenny's
opinion of Jerry. In addition to being a "stand-up guy", he is
also a generous, kind-hearted man, and a dogged investigator,
when he has the time, which isn't often these days. He is also a
polite and tactful gentleman in person but believes in telling
it like it is when it comes to ufology (or at least how he sees
it.) Let's not forget the fine work he did in the Travis Walton
case when he convinced most of the original forest crew to re-
  take modern polygraphs. He was also one of the primary
investigators in the oft overlooked but significant Liberty, Ky.
case in the 70's and I could go on..

...And since when is expressing one's honest opinion about
someones else's work "slander"? Gimme a major break!

Furthermore, Bruce M., I am not trying to get on your bad-side,
but Jerry and Kenny are not the only ones who think the Gulf
Breeze case (at least the Ed Walter's portion of it) is full of
more holes than a case of Swiss cheese. Your proclamation that
Jerry Black is simply wrong about that case does not make it so
and there are many others who are bewildered and disappointed by
your continued support of Ed Walters.

There, I probably don't have many friends left on this List now,
but every once in awhile I like to " tell it like it is" also.


Cheers

Chaz







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                   Re: Krauss NY Times Article - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 05:17:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 20:10:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Krauss NY Times Article - Lehmberg


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Krauss NY Times Article

 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Krauss NY Times Article
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:53:11 -0300

 >>This was in Tuesday's NY Times (in the weekly Science section);
 >>the author is head of the physics department at Case Western
 >>University:

 >>It was sent me by Bob Pratt.

 >>-----

 >>The New York Times - Science

 >>Tuesday, April 30, 2002

 >>Odds Are Stacked When Science Tries To Debate Pseudoscience

 >>By LAWRENCE M. KRAUSS

 ><snip>

 >>We may not know how spacecraft of the future will be propelled,
 >>whether matter-antimatter drives will be built or even if time
 >>travel is possible. But we do know, absolutely, how much on-
 >>board fuel will be needed to speed up a substantial spacecraft
 >>to near the speed of light an enormous amount, probably enough
 >>to power all of human civilization at the present time for
 >>perhaps a decade.

 >This gives immediate insight into his thinking. He is thinking
 >'fuel'. He is thinking 'symmetrical' propulsion. He is thinking
 >in the stone-age. There are serious engineers and experimenters
 >who are tinkering with devices that use no fuel, have no reaction
 >mass, and which move quite quickly when power is applied. Think
 >'acceleration' with no resistance.

<snip>

There are no stacked odds. I once heard a debate in 1999 (you
can too for that matter

http://events.yahoo.com/shows/endoftheline/9903/end0330.ram

between Dr. Krauss and Mr. Friedman, and I was immediately moved
to compose this little ditty... with all apology to Mr.
Friedman, and no worries for Dr. Krauss (he's mainstream and
deserves every drubbing). I also have it on pretty good
authority that an open offer to debate Dr. Krauss on his home
turf regarding UFOs remains loudly unanswered.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

David and Goliath

David - Goliath. Still fighting, it's seeming. One's over-cocky
- and due for a reaming. Goliath (the mainstream), opposed by
too few; while his *upstart* opponent's courageously cued. One
narrows scope to a slender percentage, the other is open to
DATA's sweet vintage. One is a scoffer of knee-jerk dismissals;
the other's employing some truth as his missiles.

Filled with his confidence, and the weight of his creed, Goliath
was RIPE for a fall that he needs. David slung well, and infused
all his points. He cited them, hell - he was owning the joint!
David, well read, was prepared for his role, but Goliath showed
up with his head in a bowl.

Bereft of his homework Goliath's ungainly, and fumbled around
for his words so inanely. Goliath's then caught in his own
vicious trap, he hadn't prepared and was pinned to the mat!
Stone pocked and bleeding he writhes on the floor, and proves,
at the last, that his LESS is not more.

Goliath was vanquished for arrogance, friend. He lies, belly up,
for his close minded kin. And the sneers from his CAMP were the
stones that were used in the sling of one righteous, experienced
Jew. Round and around went the weight of his *sling*; his
arguments whistled like fiery stings on the physics, the cosmic,
and _base_ relativity... Goliath was mired in pompous
proclivity... where books go unread in the search for an answer
to excise our ignorance - our cognitive cancer. David could read
and he'd read the man's book. He's studied his Rommel, so like
Patton he cooked. Goliath, assured of his glorious might, that's
he's to prevail in a "no contest" fight, was covered with gaps
in his armor of science that weakened his impact and decreased
his defiance.

*Goliath* was beaten, but lived to admit that the intrepid
*David* had merit and grit. Dismissal's outrageous, Goliath's
concluded. The argument's valid, and the thought has INTRUDED
that space is a huge place, completely unknown, and it's filled
to the BRIM with anomalous foam - and LOST in its hugeness is
mind unconfined by concepts that limit and keep us *defined*.
  We hold to these tails of too timid tradition, and are blinded,
in fact, by this backward position.

David compels me to question the *man*, for all the *man's*
blandishment, *degrees*, or elan... Complacent, believing
proud *science* will win, Goliath is blind to the fringe that
begins just a mean tiny distance from what we now know is the
little we know of what's HIDDEN there - SO! What can be
measured; what can be seen? What is seen changes to fit ANY
scheme! David's won out, once again, 'cause he's right. His
scholarship demonstrates rational light! He had the right
stones, and he hurled them well. They hit every mark and they
rang every bell.

Be caught up, mean science, in arrogance (spite!) - and feel
that stone as your forehead it strikes!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

It was not the trouncing of proud, jealous, and disdainful
representatives of mainstream *science* by Stanton Friedman that
was so satisfying. It was the demonstration that for all of
science's rock hard reliability and useful efficacy, most
science representatives (...at least the policy making ones -
  with due respect to the gracious, even tempered, and seemingly
honest Dr. Krauss) do not do the real homework (or accept the
real challenges!) of science. Moreover, they will not BEGIN to
question what can't be readily measured, repeatedly and
predictably observed, or effortlessly recorded. They are quick
to dismiss, without investigation, 98% of a conjectured reality
to sit haughtily, and jealously at the top of their guarded
little hills. Apologists for this *mean* Science, like Goliath,
have yet to discover that aggregate humanity "does not live by
bread alone", and in the end it is that which will always bring
a smirking "Goliath" down.

"It is poetry, and not [mere] industry [(however incisive,
diligent, or scientific)]... that will save us all."

~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







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                    Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 06:17:50 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 20:13:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In


 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience
 >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:47:35 +0100

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 05:48:24 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

 >>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 01:58:23 +0100
 >>>Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

 >May I just start by say it make's a change to have a good honest
 >debate with someone who's not plugging a book, name dropping or
 >back stabbing.

Knowing how important the UFO disclosure effort is, and knowing
how frustrating it is to give your life to the pursuit of
disclosure and be frustrated by such nonsense as dispensed by
the NSF, I can easily understand the struggle with colleagues.

<snip>

 >>As a researcher in other fields where government cover ups have
 >>been a way of life (examples: human radiation experiments,
 >>MKULTRA, COINTELPRO to name a few) the pattern is obvious. The
 >>tragedy is that the work of so many UFO and abduction
 >>researchers is the target of a group who up close and
 >>personally, know better.

 >If I were the group (whoever the group may be) I would not have
 >to do anything with regard to UFO researchers.

 >I'm sure you must have noticed how self destructive the UFO
 >community can be.

A mirror image of what goes on in my activism field too.

 >>The fact is that the old scientific method, the one that denies
 >>that the universe is affected at a distance by living beings
 >>within it, is not adequate for serious study of this "new" class
 >>of events. The NSF needs to be reminded of this, loudly and
 >>often.

 >Did any psychics predict 9/11? it was a world shattering event,
 >but no, for some reason they only pick up on the vague things,
 >there will be an earthquake somewhere in the US between the
 >months of etc, etc...

That is my whole point: It is _very_, _very_hard_ to study the
class of events which cannot be duplicated on demand, and by
every researcher. But not impossible.

As Dr. Robert O. Becker states, scientists, just like others who
have been working in a field for years do not want to leave
their comfortable cocoon, in which they are seen as "knowing
everything", and suddenly have to admit that with respect to the
new class of events, they are rank amateurs.

 >>The presence of UFOs in the area, apparently. Such appearances
 >>routinely stop electrical equipment from working.

 >This is my point exactly, my question was meaning what created
 >the cause to your example effects?

 >Your answer is basically saying, the presence of something that
 >is unidentified.

 >In other words, your guess is as good as mine.

No. Obviously, the _aliens_ have been able to get their
scientific method adjusted so that their scientists _can_ handle
the event class which can't be duplicated all the time by all
experimenters.

It is now humankind's job to adapt to this new and revolutionary
requirement. I've heard it said that younger scientists are
willing to take on this challenge.

 >Who'd have thought back in the 40's that by the year 2002 the
 >UFO would still remain unidentified.

 >Ghost's are witnessed but are still unexplained.

 >The Loch Ness monster has yet to be caught, as are Big foot and
 >the Yeti.

Yup. The 'new' class of events awaits a matching new scientific
method so all such phenomena can be studied, rather than
ridiculed.

 >>>We can go on a month of Sunday's discussing the effect but no
 >>>one has so far been able to come up with the cause.

 >>Ever wonder why?

 >Do you know why?? if the answer involves 'the group' again I
 >don't think I want to know.

Plain old human urge to remain within one's carefully
constructed "cocoon" of familiar information and a rule (the
"scientific method") which supposedly doesn't need to be
questionned.

 >>What I am trying to do is urge UFO researchers, many of whom
 >>have literally poured their lives into their work, to shout back
 >>at NSF or any other agency that promulgates such nonsense
 >>"OBJECTION!", as a trial lawyer would, and stop taking this crap
 >>laying down!

 >I also urge researchers to keep at it no matter what.
 >I know a few who have done exactly what you're saying and poured
 >their whole lives into it.

 >But this raises another problem, some of them have poured their
 >lives into a belief that the lights in the sky are of alien
 >origin.

 >Whether they're right or wrong they have a lot invested in this,
 >the whole thing is like some sort of religious faith to them.
 >These are the people the media latch on to, no conspiracies,
 >just an entertaining 'end of segment' piece.

What is wrong about a hypothesis, which seems overwhelming to
me, that some UFOs are of alien origin? After all we have really
amazing archaeological finds strongly pointing to alien
visitation in the past.

Then we also have the recent case of U.S. military
archaeologists who, when booted out of an Australian
archaeological site, dynamited the place. Ditto for a site
somewhere in the midwest U.S. - sorry I can't recall the place
and discoverer's name at the moment.

We have "millions" of potential Earth-like planets now, don't
we? Or is it "billions"?

We have that case where bacteria survived the vacuum of the
Moon's surface for two years.

We have numerous sightings of beings, including those of the
abductees.

We have UFOs who inspected a test nuclear warhead in flight and
apparently disabled it.

What's wrong with being confident aliens are involved with UFOs?


Eleanor White







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                          Re: Bad Astronomy - Cohen

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 07:32:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 12:39:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad Astronomy - Cohen


 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:20:46 +0100
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Bad Astronomy - Jones

 >I thought this might be of interest to all.

 >----
 >Source: www.badastronomy.com

 >Rebuttal to a Bad Book Review
 >April 7, 2002

<snip>

 >I make the point that amateur astronomers watch the
 >sky more than any other person, and never report UFOs.
 >This is the point with which Mr. Rutkowski disagrees. He
 >says amateurs do report UFOs, and some professional
 >astronomers have too.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hello Everyone,

To the webmaster of badastromony.com:
(perhaps Sean could forward this)

"Never" is a dangerous word. I've fallen into its trap a couple
of times myself. It is true that amateur astronomers are not
constantly reporting UFOs, but how many AA's do you need to see
one to convince you that the people who reported them may
possibly have seen the real thing?

Here are a couple of sightings from my general neck of the woods
from 1973 that tended to rub my nerve endings raw. My own
sightings were Nov/Dec 1967; this was approximately six years
later. Reported in the December 1973 NICAP Investigator.

http://www.cohenufo.org/nicap.html#oldnicap

NB   [Brackets] are mine for descriptive purposes.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NICAP Investigator
December 1973
Sighting: October 21

President and Vice President of Long Island
Astronomical Society Sight UFO

Lee Gugliotto and James Paciello are both well qualified amateur
astronomers who have spent years examining the night skies. Mr.
Gugliotto holds the office of President of the Astronomical
Society of Long Island and Mr. Paciello is Vice President of the
society. Gugliotto has long been interested in the subject of
UFOs, but until the evening of October 21st, neither man had
ever seen an object they could not identify in their thousands
of hours of viewing the sky.

On the warm and hazy Sunday evening of October 21st, Mr. and
Mrs. Paciello were visiting the Gugliottos at their home in
Calverton, New York. And as was their custom used the
observatory in the upstairs of their home, adjoining the
terrace. At about 7:30 PM, the men went out on the terrace to
look for meteors and noticed a reddish star in the southeast
which only attracted their passing attention. They soon returned
to the interior of the house. At about 9 to 9:15 PM the men left
their wives playing cards downstairs and returned to the terrace
where they saw the same reddish light they had seen earlier. At
first Gugliotto dismissed it from his mind, but Paciello kept
looking and thought it seemed to be moving back and forth. By
this time Lee Gugliotto was also watching the light which
appeared to move westward for about 15 seconds then started to
come straight toward them.

The light was now seen as having a ball-like shape and was
moving slowly. The initial size was estimated to be 3 minutes of
arc and was, of course, becoming brighter the closer it came to
the viewers. As it reached it closest point [it appeared to be
brighter than Venus and had a diameter of approximately 1/3 that
of a full moon.]

At this point the men called their wives and asked them to come
to the terrace to see something. The women broke up their card
game and came upstairs reluctantly, thinking they were being
called to see "just another pretty star". By the time the ladies
joined their husbands the object appeared to be moving from left
to right, still very slowly at about 30 degrees above the tree
line on the horizon.

While all four witnesses were watching, the object moved up
higher in the sky and toward the northwest. As the object
started to disappear over the roof top, Gugliotto and the two
women went downstairs with the intent of getting into their car
to follow the object. Meanwhile, Paciello was watching the
light, as it was about to pass from view behind the roof of the
house. Just before the roof blocked his view the white glow
disappeared, being immediately replaced by three blinking lights
which appeared in a horizontal line equally spaced from each
other, with a green light being on the left, a white light in
the center and a red light on the right. These lights were not
spaced close enough together to be a plane's running lights and
exhibited a very random alternate blinking pattern. At this time
a small plane flew over, crossing the objects path
perpendicularly which gave Paciello the opportunity to compare
both.

Jim Paciello then joined the other three witnesses at the car
and as they drove down the hill from their house watched the
object disappear through the trees until it finally faded into
the haze as it was heading north. The couples returned to their
home and called the police and radio station at approximately
9:45 PM to report what they had seen.

NICAP's Regional Investigator, Diana Russell secured a detailed
report from all witnesses shortly after the occurrence. In
addition, she has determined that other people in the same
general area had sighted a similar object at the same time.
[Airplane and satellite movements were checked, but no possible
correlation was seen.] During the interview with the witnesses
it was determined that small planes were seen at various times
during the sighting, giving each witness the opportunity to
compare the UFO with objects of known size. They stated that
["the airplanes looked like pin dots by comparison to the size
of the UFO".]  The presence of planes and other local noises
also gave the witnesses the opportunity to be certain the object
was silent during their experience.

The experience shared by the Gugliottos and Paciellos is similar
to that of many other individuals who observe a UFO. In
analyzing this case NICAP found that the individuals reacted in
a way that is common to most good UFO reports. Even though Mr.
Gugliotto and other members of the party had a special interest
in UFOs they did not immediately leap to the conclusion that
they were experiencing a UFO sighting. They called upon their
background to try to explain what they were seeing and only
after a great deal of thought came to the conclusion that the
light in the sky on that October night was truly unidentifiable.

In analyzing this case, which is based largely on the
credibility of the witnesses, character checks were made with
individuals who know both of the men involved. The results of
this effort can best be summarized by a statement made by Marc
Levine, Director of the Planetarium at the Vanderbilt Museum,
who stated "if they say something was up there that did not
belong there I would have to go along with them.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

jc   Note the size of the object seen and that [the other
planes seen looked like "pin dots" when compared against the
object seen.]

Also, the article had a picture of Dr. Hynek speaking with the
two AAs. He had flown to Long Island when he heard about it.

                    * * * * * * * * * *

I don't have the exact date of this next article but, it
appeared in Long Island "Newsday" right around the time of the
following sightings: Oct 13, 19, 21, 24, 1973 and was an
offshoot of the first article above.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

UFO Witnesses Pool Their Saucers
Newsday - by Pamela Warrick
Sightings: October 13, 19, 21, 24, 1973

Centerport - Georgia Moe saw the light at about 2 AM Oct. 24 in
the middle of an exit ramp on Sunrise Highway. Robert and
Adrienne Kaplan saw the light near dusk Oct. 13 on the Long
Island Expressway. And Lee Gugliotto and James Paciello saw it
at 9:30 PM Oct. 21 while standing on the balcony of Gugliotto's
Calverton townhouse.

They were among about 100 persons - some who had seen, some who
had not - who gathered last night in the Vanderbilt Planetarium
to hear and tell about seeing unidentified flying objects. "Most
people are afraid - afraid to come out and admit to what they've
seen," Gugliotto told the group. "That's why we called this
meeting. So you won't be afraid any more."

The meeting, one of the Long Island Astronomical Society's
regular monthly sessions, had been scheduled months ago. "We
decided then the meeting would be on UFOs," said Paciello, the
society's vice president. "It's just an amazing coincidence that
Lee [who is president of the society] and I had our own personal
sightings when we did."

None of the others who testified last night to having seen
strange lights recently were associated with the astronomical
society. Some came looking for answers but others, like the
young man who spotted his UFO in downtown Patchogue Oct. 19 and
identified himself only as "kind of a disinterested party - I
don't really follow UFOs" - sought the company of other
witnesses. "We're all skeptical about the origin of what we
saw," said Gugliotto, "but one thing every one of us who saw it
knows for sure is we did see something."

The young man from Patchogue described his sighting as [two
"fuzzy, elliptical" objects "moving silently and faster than any
aircraft."] Ms. Moe, 19, of Lindenhurst, saw [one glowing ball
of light which hovered about 45 seconds, then sped off "like
whoosh away."]

Kaplan, of Plainview, who says he's a "space buff," was still
feeling a bit anxious when he left the UFO show-and- tell. "We
saw it near Exit 50 or 51 on the expressway. With all those
people on the expressway, how come nobody else saw it?" Several
of the amateur astronomers on hand at the planetarium called for
an end to "saucer talk - it's scientifically obscene" and a
return to the scientific method. "We're not hurting for
sightings," said John Delance, a 25-year-old doctoral candidate
at the State University at Stony Brook and a self-confessed UFO
believer, "The point is we have to start out not believing and
then find quantitative proof. It's the only way we'll convince
them [the nonbelievers]."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

jc   Note the "two fuzzy elliptical objects, moving silently
and faster than any aircraft." from one participant and
["......one glowing ball of light which hovered about 45
seconds, then sped off "like whoosh away."] from another.

jc  Second description familiar? . . . Exeter.

http://www.cohenufo.org/authorsc.html#exeternh

(URL for those not familiar with the case)

                    * * * * * * * * * *

Now, it's easy to say that all these people were all hyped by
what the amateur astronomers and others were claiming in the
area and they might have been attributed to some kind of "mass
delusion." However, this next one really got to me. I was
"vibrating" for a long time after it. I had visited the beach in
question and driven the parkway with the marshes many times.
This next sighting happened the early part of the following
month.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NICAP UFO Investigator
December 1973
Sighting: November 6th

Patrolmen Thomas Brown and Gary Steinberg of the Freeport
Village Police Force were reluctant to report the flying cigar-
shaped object they sighted over a Freeport marsh on the night of
November 7th. However, they were sure that it was not an
airplane, helicopter or swamp gas and agreed to discuss their
experience. Both patrolmen noticed the UFO at about 9:00 PM
while they were on Main Street in Freeport. It appeared to be
hovering in the sky over the marshes near Jones Beach. They
drove their car toward the object and stopped at the marsh to
continue their observation. The object made no noise, was about
the size of a car, seemed to be about 600 feet above the men and
was moving slowly. As the officers watched, a second object,
similar to the first object, but smaller, rose from the marsh
and connected with the UFO. When the smaller object hooked up
with the first the bright glow began to dim and the UFO "sped
off like a comet."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

jc   Oh yes, the preceding appeared again in the 2/74 NICAP
journal. It was one of the cases NICAP and APRO evaluated
together for submission to the Enquirer panel at that time.
There is a discrepency in some of the details from the first
article. I believe the case was probably not fully examined in
its initial printing. What was initially seen was probably the
smaller object. NICAP and APRO were submitting cases to the
Enquirer at the time and I can't believe they wouldn't have
fought over and something written about it in NICAP if its
details weren't properly correct. They were examining
everything together and serious about getting it "right".

http://www.cohenufo.org/nicap.vs.apro.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

FREEPORT, LONG ISLAND

Three policemen watched a small UFO link up with a larger one in
Freeport, Long island on November 6, 1973. Two policemen were
sitting in their patrol car in a parking lot at 9 PM and saw a
stationary ball of light in the sky with no red and green
running lights. One followed in the car and the (other)
policeman got back on his motorcycle. The officers were in radio
contact with one another during this time, but there is no
record of conversation with the dispatcher.

Officer Steinberg described the UFO as shaped like a football,
flatter at each end, glowing silvery blue with an occasional
pulsating yellow-red tint. The UFO seemed to be hanging in the
sky but then moved off in a southwest direction. A smaller UFO
came up from the right and joined the larger one. Officer Brown
had also witnessed this occurrence. The two men returned to
headquarters and spoke to a third officer about the incident and
he too had seen the UFO's but refused to discuss the sighting
with the investigator assigned to the case. [for fear of
ridicule] (UFO Investigator, December 1973)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

June 30th, 1974 the same article appeared in the
National Enquirer with some additional details added.
I won't print them here but people can check in their
libraries if you are interested.

With all the other close-up details given, one extra detail
included mentioned that when the officer finally got close to
the craft, the lights on the craft he observed looked like
natural gas lights in a haze. In my sighting, I stated that what
I saw had a "mist" around it when I first saw it. My sighting
wasn't on a hazy day.

http://www.cohenufo.org/Carter_Clark.html#mysighting

APRO (Aerial Research Organization - Jim Lorenzen investigated
this case and said they had sighting reports from other people
around this same time.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It's also worth mentioning that the Pascagoula, Mississippi
Hickson and Parker claimed abduction case was reported October
11th. The Eastern Ohio Coyne helicopter case was reported around
October 18. It was one heck of a couple of months, and these
were only a drop in the bucket. There were many police reports
around this time too.

In case anyone has been wondering why I turned into such a
fanatic regarding UFOs, now you know. Having seen my own, I felt
pretty certain the policemen in the preceding case were most
probably telling the truth and that chances were, Gugliotto and
Paciello had most probably seen the real thing as well.


Most sincerely,

Jerry Cohen

http://cohenufo.org/






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              Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 14:22:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:00:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee


 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:57:51 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology


 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:20:49 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

<snip>

Jerry Black responded as follows:

 >Keep in mind that as of May 3, 2002, we have not proven what
 >his UFO phenomena represents, contrary to the many statements
 >put out there by lead investigators such as Stanton Friedman,
 >Kevin Randle, Bruce Maccabee and other notables in the field of
 >Ufology who routinely state matter-of-factly that this phenomena
 >absolutely represents extraterrestrials from another planet."

I have not said that this phenomena _absolutely_ represents
extraterrestrials from another planet. Whenever asked what was
the source or cause I have given several possibilities that
would apply to the unsolved and unsolvable (in mundane terms)
sightings. ET is one of these. Others involve the possibility of
time travel, or interdimensional travel. In any case, I have
pointed out that the real crux of the matter is whether or not
any sightings result from the presence of "Other Intelligences"
(OI), a.k.a. "Non-Human Intelligences" (NHI), wherever they may
come from and however they may have gotten here.

However, although I have not said that ET is "absolutely" ETs
from another planet, I have also pointed out that the cases
which appear to be evidence of OI/NHI are _most simply_
explained as some form of ET visitation from distant planets,
either using some advanced form of travel (e.g.,
'interdimensional') or from some source such as an
interplanetary 'lifeboat' that is 'parked' within out own solar
system (e.g., ETs commuting to earth from a station within the
asteroid belt). This is the 'simplest' because we know how to do
that based on present physics. Any other far-out suggestion such
as time or dimensional travel is beyond what we could do today.

"They can't get here from there" is not based on physics. Given
enough time we could go there (over many generations). It might
be based on presumed psychology of OI/NHI: they wouldn't want to
come here because it is far and would take a long time and they
don't live that long, etc. However, we don't know much... if
any... about ET psychology (!) And, this argument does not rule
out the interplanetary lifeboat or 'ark' idea of a group of ET's
setting out to travel over several generations and finally
arrive at some habitable planet.







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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 11:26:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 12:55:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark


 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:57:51 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:20:49 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>One may agree or disagree with Budd Hopkins makes of the
 >>abduction phenomenon, but to slander this transparently honest,
 >>decent, and dedicated man as a crass moneygrubber is really
 >>beyond the pale. This sort of casual trashing of others is one
 >>reason ufology has "kind of gone to pot". If critics can't be
 >>bothered with honest criticism, we really are in trouble.

 >I spoke with Jerry Black this afternoon and he authorized the
 >following reply:

 >"I feel I was not quoted entirely correctly with the suggestion
 >that everyone in Ufology is a money-grubber. In fact, I feel
 >that Budd Hopkins is one of the gentlemen in Ufology I feel is
 >not necessarily concerned with making money.

 >However, that does not change my view on the work of Budd
 >Hopkins in the field of Ufology. I feel that Budd Hopkins wants
 >to believe so badly that the UFO phenomena is extraterrestrial
 >in origin that he neglects serious investigation and research
 >into the subject that he basically becomes, in my view, a UFO
 >reporter.

Again, this is false. In addition, the statement is meaningless.
To illustrate my point, let's change it a little:

"Jerry Black wants to believe so badly that the UFO phenomena
[sic] is not extraterrestrial in origin that he neglects serious
criticism of colleagues for easy, cheap shots."

No part of my sentence, like Black's, is anything but bloviation
and phony mind-reading. Its intention is to demean somebody else
without having to provide any rational argument or contrary
evidence. Having known Budd for years, I have no reason to
suspect that he "badly wants to believe" in ET visitors; to the
contrary, to all appearances he finds abductee testimony deeply
disturbing. From it he has developed a theory about the UFO
phenomenon that only a lunatic would _want_ to believe.

On the other hand, I am no more a mind reader than Black is, so
it is possible that deep within the recesses of his mind Budd,
strangely, does want to believe that very nasty otherworldly
critters are victimizing and manipulating us while we sit
powerless as we await an uncertain future as a species. Since I,
any more than Black, can't know this for sure, the question is
simply irrelevant. If you want to dispute Budd and his work,
there are other grounds than casual character assassination on
which it would be more productive to proceed.

 >In my opinion, Hopkins truly believes the people that he
 >interviews for his books are telling him the truth as they know
 >it to be. However, he does no serious investigation and research
 >to determine if these stories are accurate.

This last sentence is, of course, a crock. Anybody who reads
Budd's books can follow his investigations and extensive efforts
to document the reports he collects. This sort of criticism can
fairly be made, and has been made (by me among others), of John
Mack, with whom Black seems to have confused Hopkins. Mack does
take testimony elicited under hypnosis more or less at face
value and does appear to let it go at that. Budd doesn't. Pick
up Intruders or Witnessed for specifics.

 >Keep in mind that as of May 3, 2002, we have not proven what
 >this UFO phenomena [sic] represents, contrary to the many statements
 >put out there by lead investigators such as Stanton Friedman,
 >Kevin Randle, Bruce Maccabee and other notables in the field of
 >Ufology who routinely state matter-of-factly that this phenomena [sic]
 >absolutely represents extraterrestrials from another planet."

Well, at least they know the difference between "phenomenon" and
"phenomena." Might I recommend a dictionary to Mr. Black?


Jerry Clark







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                     Re: Krauss NY Times Article - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 16:17:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:05:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Krauss NY Times Article - McCoy


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Krauss NY Times Article

 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Krauss NY Times Article
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:53:11 -0300

<snip>

 >>The New York Times - Science

 >>Tuesday, April 30, 2002

 >>Odds Are Stacked When Science Tries To Debate Pseudoscience

 >>By LAWRENCE M. KRAUSS

 ><snip>

 >>We may not know how spacecraft of the future will be propelled,
 >>whether matter-antimatter drives will be built or even if time
 >>travel is possible. But we do know, absolutely, how much on-
 >>board fuel will be needed to speed up a substantial spacecraft
 >>to near the speed of light an enormous amount, probably enough
 >>to power all of human civilization at the present time for
 >>perhaps a decade.

 >This gives immediate insight into his thinking. He is thinking
 >'fuel'. He is thinking 'symmetrical' propulsion. He is thinking
 >in the stone-age. There are serious engineers and experimenters
 >who are tinkering with devices that use no fuel, have no reaction
 >mass, and which move quite quickly when power is applied. Think
 >'acceleration' with no resistance.

Heretic! Witchcraft!

 >>That means that aliens who want to come here from a distant star
 >>will probably have to have some better reason than merely
 >>performing secret kinky experiments on the patients of a Harvard
 >>psychiatrist.

There isn't any reason (reason is the only operative word here)
that such foolishenss should be entertained , it's -impossible-
because ah, it just is.

 >Why is it always assumed that they come here from a distant star
 >or planet everytime a trUFO is spotted? Not very innovative
 >thinking here. Perhaps there is a nearby base of operations.
 >Perhaps they can hide better than we can. Consider the
 >possibilities outside of the stilted framework that Krauss uses.


Bill, you poor deluded soul stilts are what the Universe is made
of "the stilt theory" , of course.

 >>As difficult as debating ultimate limits of the possible may be,
 >>there is another debate that is even harder to win. But it is a
 >>debate that may be even more important. It is a debate on the
 >>"fairness" of science. The reason for the difficulty is simple.
 >>Science is not fair. All ideas are not treated equally. Only
 >>those that have satisfied the test of experiment or can be
 >>tested by experiment have any currency. Beautiful ideas, elegant
 >>ideas and even sacrosanct notions are not immune from
 >>termination by the chilling knife edge of experimental data.

Yes, and any data that is Heretical in nature is now justly
thrown out, entire bodies of recalcitrant, badly behaving data.
How dare it behave that way! next thing some crackpot will come
up wih the idea that things are interconnected somehow!

 >Like 'String' theory or M-theory?

Yes! er No! ah, never mind.

 >>In Ohio, a debate is raging over whether to teach "intelligent
 >>design" alongside evolution in high school biology classes.
 >>Intelligent design is based on the belief that life is too
 >>complicated to explain by natural causes alone and that some
 >>intelligence, ultimately some divine intelligence, must have
 >>created the original life forms on earth or guided their
 >>development.

Why yes, human evolution is a grand example, why we are 99%
chimpanzee! Pay no attention to that annoying one percent! Those
300 or so differences are minor .

 >Some of the arguments for intelligent design are potent and
 >maybe deserving of consideration and does not always suggest we
 >dispense with evolution so Krauss has not familiarized himself
 >with the arguments, and I am no creationist. Neither was Sir
 >Fred Hoyle and some others who found evidence of ID.

How dare you challenge the fundemental Darwin Dogma may you have
hairy feet, with thumbs! Hear me! you can take a Box of
watchparts, shake it, and get a Rolex. Believe! Believe !

 >>Proponents of that idea suggest that including it in the
 >>curriculum is simply a question of fairness. If a significant
 >>number of people do not believe that evolution provides an
 >>adequate explanation of the origin of species, they argue, then
 >>it is only fair to present both sides of the argument in a high
 >>school science class.

 >It doesn't and some biologists, while not proponents of ID, are
 >leaving the ranks in favor of panspermia. Microbiology did not
 >exist in Darwin's day. Many biologist admit there is a problem
 >with explaining macroevolution (not microevolution or the small
 >changes that even humans produce in breeding animals), but a
 >gradual change that accounts for the Origin of Species. Maybe it
 >isn't so gradual and maybe it isn't limited to the terrestrial
 >biosphere.

Something outside ourselves! "It came from space" ahhhhh! we are
evolution's crowning glory we are supreme. It's all about us!
Are we alone? yes! all alone nobody else. oh maybe, some very
basic life on Mars. NO! what am I thinking that would be
admiting that this crapshoot called life on earth could be more
than just a crapshoot, I slipped -sorry.

 >>But at least half of Americans polled in a recent survey by the
 >>National Science Foundation did not know that Earth orbits the
 >>Sun, and that it takes a year to do so. Does this mean we should
 >>teach that Earth is the center of the universe? Of course not.
 >>It merely means that we are not doing a very good job informing
 >>the public about physics.

 >So people are ignorant. Jay Leno has demonstrated this with his
 >pop quizes on the streets of Hollywood like:

 >How many planets are there in our solar system?
 >Answers: 10,000, 12, 4, and even 9!

 >How many continents are there?
 >Ans: 5, 3, 12, 7
 >
 >>Science is not a democratic process. It does not proceed by
 >>majority rule and it does not accept notions that have already
 >>been disproven by experiment.

Yes! any Heretic is delivered to the academic Gulliotine Burn'd
at the stake in a pile of his own data! That will show them!

 >>Intelligent design makes assertions that cannot be tested by
 >>experiment. Those assertions that can be tested, say about blood
 >>clotting or the claimed irreducible complexity of various
 >>components of cells, seem to have thus far failed those tests.
 >>So intelligent design does not belong in a science class. End of
 >>story.

Oh, what lucid thinking this man's got the frontal lobes to
clear out the cobwebs of fantasy and magical thought.

 >Whoa, not so end of story. Results of experiments are
 >interpreted. Using mathematical measurements plus philosophical
 >arguments seem to justify many positions. Irreducible complexity
 >is an idea. It says that if you remove one component from a
 >molecular machine then that machine won't function. So, how do
 >get a gradual change from less complex to more? If I remove the
 >starter from my car, it won't work or the a wheel from my
 >bicycle - that is all that it says. There is much more on this
 >but it is being resisted because many of its proponents are
 >involved in Christian theologies (not all are, but that is
 >enough to convince scientists to dismiss it).

Any irrational, magical thinker is apostate, anethema! how dare
they challenge the supremacy of Scientific Man!

 >>Nevertheless, recently the Ohio State School Board felt it
 >>necessary to run a hearing on evolution vs. intelligent design
 >>in a debate format, with two proponents of evolution to face off
 >>against two advocates of intelligent design in Columbus.

 >>One might think that I would know better than to agree to
 >>participate in such a debate. But I did, because I felt the
 >>education of schoolchildren in Ohio was so important.

Ah, brave Krauss, a rational bulwark against the encouragement
of children to think for themselves. Education against the the
fools who say there is more than just the human race, outside of
earth or even an ridiculous idea that there is a reality beyound
this one Bah!

 >>Nevertheless, I tried to learn from my earlier mistakes. Merely
 >>having a debate inevitably suggests that each side has some
 >>credibility. As a result, opponents of the scientific method
 >>like creationists try very hard to appear in debates with
 >>scientists. Merely being on the same stage represents a victory!

 >>I made sure that I emphasized this intrinsic inequity in my
 >>opening remarks in Columbus, and it colored much of the
 >>subsequent discussion, as well as the later reporting of the
 >>event. I do not know whether it was sufficient to let listeners
 >>focus on whether there was really anything worth debating in the
 >>first place. But it at least allowed for that possibility.

 >>In the meantime, for those scientists who find themselves thrust
 >>in such public debates, I have found at least one useful tool.
 >>When debating U.F.O. experts, ask them whether they believe in
 >>"Young Earth Creationism." When debating young earth
 >>creationists, ask them whether they believe in alien U.F.O.'s.
 >>When they say no, ask why. Their answers will inevitably shed
 >>light on the weakness of their own positions.

 >And should we ask Mr. Krauss why he doesn't believe in cold
 >fusion despite positive experimental evidence? His weakness is
 >revealed in his belief that his brand of science is the only
 >brand and is the only road to truth. Sounds like bias to me.

I had to pull the my tounge out of my cheek here, I was a
Biology Major in Collage, and had a long debates with professors
who thought that we were totally alone, none of this UFO/Magical
thought stuff. evolution or, the mere idea that we are alone,
(and curiously the height of the evolutionary blind watchmaker)
is a distinclty human-centric concept.

To me, an experiencer of things I can't explain (and Krauss
couldn't either if they happened to him I'll bet). How can
anyone be so blind, and fundemental -honestly, I know Christian
Clergy people from Pentecostal to Lutheran to Catholic, that
have seen UFO's or actually believe that all that you see on a
starry night could likely be -home- to others. Also the idea of
interdimentional travel is something that might explain a few
things.

 >I am in many e-groups with scientists who cannot even agree on
 >theories in physics. You think physics should be a pat subject
 >by now, but there are raging arguments going on all the time.
 >Cosmology too. Biology too. And Psychology? The fact is these
 >areas of study are subject to human emotion and reaction. No
 >surprise here.

Well, They thought Edison was nuts (a mere inventor too!)
Einstien caught all sorts of crap from his contemporaries, the
mountain Gorillia wans't discovered until the late 1800's-even
though the locals said it exsisted.

We have someone like Stanton,(and others too) that has the
courage to point out the closed scientific mind (of Krauss in
particular) of the typical "rational" scientist. I will tell you
this: there is no more fundemental thinker than a scientist who
can not allow a single irrational thought into their head.


GT McCoy







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                    Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 17:02:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 14:56:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:12:19 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
 >>>Subject: Roswell Vs. The Critics

<snip>

 >But this discussion has devolved to a point where Bruce's
 >original statements have been lost. We aren't talking about
 >Schmitt and his new and improved Roswell story, but talking
 >about whether or not the pictures in Ramey's office show a rawin
 >and a weather balloon (Sorry, Ed, but it is a weather balloon
 >and rawin). We should be examining how it is that Schmitt can
 >find a venue and that people won't challenge what he says about
 >the case.


Kevin,

As I've stated repeatedly, you and I agree on much about Roswell
but you haven't done your homework on the FW debris photos. The
debris pictured there is not from a NYU Rawin and I challenge
you to prove that it is.

To do so, you'll have to measure the debris and show how it
matches the known dimensions of a NYU Rawin.

We know that a Rawin is constructed of nine triangles and these
triangles are all 34 inches x 24 inches x24 inches.

To prove your case, you need to find nine tape-like edges that
measure 34 inches and are connected to interior members/struts
that measure 24 inches.

You're not going to be able to do that because there aren't any
in the photos.

You also will not find any supporting struts (balsa wood) that
are the correct dimensions for a NYU Rawin.

Also on the NYU Rawin, the paper/foil material that folds over
the struts should be folded paper to paper (as per specs) rather
than foil to foil as seen in the FW photos.

If the debris was from a UNU Rawin, you wouldn't find these
anomalies.

Ed







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                   CCCRN News: Solved - Odd Field Pattern

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 01:08:24 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 14:58:54 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: Solved - Odd Field Pattern


CCCRN NEWS
The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

May 4, 2002

_____________________________


SOLVED - ODD FIELD PATTERN (PIKE LAKE, SASKATCHEWAN)

The mystery of the odd field pattern 'formation' reported this
past week near Pike Lake, Saskatchewan has been solved.

The unusual dark markings in the stubble field turned out to be
nothing more than piles of straw and manure dumped by the farmer
after cleaning out his barns. Crop circles have sometimes been
seen on usenet news groups and the like being referred to in a
derogatory sense as 'crap circles' by the debunkers. In this
case it seems, that is just what they were! So once again we
await the first actual Canadian formation of the year...

Thanks to CCCRN Saskatchewan coordinator Dennis Eklund for his
assistance with this.

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
psa@look.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and
scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma.

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

=A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002







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   May > May 5

               Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 21:48:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:03:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Fleming


 >From: Daydisk2@webtv.net (Chaz Stuart)
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:15:03 -0500 (EST)
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >...And since when is expressing one's honest opinion about
 >someones else's work "slander"? Gimme a major break!

The comment by Mr. Black that was criticized was not about
anyone's work; it was about the motives _behind_ the work: that
other people were in it for the money. This is not only mud-
  slinging, but unoriginal mud-slinging at that. Whatever his
contributions may have been to UFO research, Black has not
helped himself or UFO research with his attacks on other
researchers. He offers a good example of the 'self-destructive'
behavior of some Ufologists that someone recently commented
about on the List.

 >Furthermore, Bruce M., I am not trying to get on your bad-side,
 >but Jerry and Kenny are not the only ones who think the Gulf
 >Breeze case (at least the Ed Walter's portion of it) is full of
 >more holes than a case of Swiss cheese. Your proclamation that
 >Jerry Black is simply wrong about that case does not make it so
 >and there are many others who are bewildered and disappointed by
 >your continued support of Ed Walters.

Maybe you wouldn't be so bewildered if you were to read what
Bruce has written about the subject. I think he's made a good
case that there was a hoax involved, but Walters was the victim
and not the perpetrator.

A UFO model was discovered months after Walters had moved out of
his house. It was constructed in part from from an architectural
drawing by Walters. This seems on the surface to be very
incriminating - as well as incredibly careless of a supposed
hoaxer (who was also in it for the money, of course). But the
drawing was labeled with dimensions unique to a house plan that
were also found on a sketch made by Walters for the prospective
customers. Walters' houses were custom- built, and the floor
plans are unique to each house. So it appears to have been
proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the architectural drawing
had been done long after the incident, and after Walters had
moved out. The implausibly "discovered" model was very probably
planted.

 >There, I probably don't have many friends left on this List now,
 >but every once in awhile I like to " tell it like it is" also.

I'm sure you meant to say that you like to tell it like you
_think_ it is. So does everybody else, including yours truly.







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   May > May 5

                      Observer On Clark & Roberts Book

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 05:27:52 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:09:12 -0400
Subject: Observer On Clark & Roberts Book


Source: The Observer (UK), May 5, 2002 - UK news

http://observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,710181,00.html

Stig

***

Cold War hysteria sparked UFO obsession, study finds

Paul Harris
Sunday May 5, 2002
The Observer

**

Budding Fox Mulders and Dana Scullys attracted to the mysteries
of the X-Files will be disappointed: a new book claims UFOs are
all in the mind and should be seen as a form of cultural mass
hysteria.

British researchers, who uncovered thousands of previously
secret government and military reports and investigated dozens
of sightings, have concluded that flying saucers were a product
of Cold War paranoia - not visitors from outer space.

The study by David Clarke and Andy Roberts concluded that none
of the evidence pointed to any form of alien contact. Instead
the widespread belief in UFOs that began in the 1950s and lasted
until the present day should be seen as a social phenomenon.

Clarke said that the UFO craze began at the start of the Cold
War, when the new threat of atomic war with the Soviet Union
hung over the world. 'It was just simple to want to believe in
something up there in the sky that could come and rescue us,' he
said.

Many of the early UFO sightings were seemingly confirmed by
Britain's fledgling radar system, often scrambling fighter
planes into the sky to investigate sightings. But, as the new
technology improved, the number of incidents appearing on radar
quickly dwindled to zero. 'That cannot be a coincidence. Those
early confirmations were just a product of a primitive radar
system,' Clarke said.

But Clarke and Roberts, whose research is to be published this
week in a book called Out of the Shadows , did uncover evidence
that the American Secret Service, with the possible connivance
of the British, looked at ways of using the public panic over
UFOs as a psychological weapon against the Russians.

In CIA memos marked 'secret' and seen by The Observer, top
officials consider exploiting the UFO craze. 'I suggest that we
discuss the possible offensive or defensive utilisation of these
phenomena for psychological warfare purposes,' wrote CIA
director Walter Smith in 1952.

'Shortly after that meeting the CIA sent a delegation to Britain
to discuss UFOs. It is hard to imagine that they did not discuss
the psychological warfare aspects of it with their British
counterparts,' Clarke said.

Clarke, who started out as a believer in UFOs but is now a
sceptic, said that the belief in alien visitation had once
reached up to the highest positions in government. Prime
Minister Winston Churchill once ordered an investigation into it
and Lord Mountbatten was a firm believer in flying saucers. In
the 1950s Britain set up a flying saucer working party of top
Ministers and army staff. 'That is why this field is important
for academic research. It did have an impact on government
policy at a crucial stage in history,' he said.

One scrap of consolation for conspiracy theorists is evidence
that the British and US Governments did embark on a systematic
cover-up of UFO sightings, especially by military pilots.
Reports were kept secret and military personnel told not to talk
about them. But Clarke believes that such actions were taken,
not to disguise contact with aliens, but because the Government
did not want to admit that it too could not explain the UFO
hysteria.

It is a different story now. The Observer revealed last year
that the secret army intelligence unit tasked with examining UFO
reports has now quietly disbanded.

**

Guardian Unlimited =A9 Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002







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                      Roswell - An 'All-American' City?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 05:50:08 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:12:33 -0400
Subject: Roswell - An 'All-American' City?


Source: Roswell Daily Record, May 3, 2002,

http://www.roswell-record.com/archives/050302/news09.html

Stig

***

Roswell aims for award

T.S. Hopkins
Record Staff Writer

**

Roswell is shooting for its second award as an All-American
City.

The city has been named a finalist - one of 30 cities vying for
the distinction. In naming the finalists, the president of the
National Civic League called the communities "models."

"These communities serve as models for the rest of the country,"
Christopher T. Gates said. "They are tackling challenges that
seem insurmountable and are producing positive and tangible
results with ingenuity and collaboration."

Roswell is hooking its hopes of winning to the UFO incident, the
Dress for Success program and the Chaves County dental van.

At a Thursday press conference, Roswell Mayor Bill Owen had the
spokesperson from each component of the effort say a few words.

Roswell Chamber of Commerce CEO Shawn Hughes ran through a brief
history of the 1947 UFO Incident, touting Roswell's worldwide
name recognition as a result of whatever happened in the desert.

Steve Gonzales retold the story of the grass -roots prodding and
pushing that led to the concept of a mobile dental van offering
care for indigent people throughout the county.

Laurie Jerge highlighted the Dress for Success program, started
by the late City Councilor Steve Landez. She explained how the
program got started following a school-uniform policy at Mesa
Middle School by Principal Robert Cobos.

The 10 cities which win the All America City designation are to
be announced June 15 in Kansas City, Mo.







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                  Re: ... Belief In Pseudoscience - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 07:41:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:23:58 -0400
Subject: Re: ... Belief In Pseudoscience - Kaeser


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 06:17:50 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

<snip>

 >What's wrong with being confident aliens are involved with
 >UFOs?

Being confident is not the same as being absolutely correct. The
paradigm shift needed to make the transition to believer won't
occur for those who have not had a personal experience to back
it up. But unless you're in this for fame and fortune, it really
doesn't matter what the masses believe for the quest to
continue.


Steve






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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 01:59:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:27:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young


 >From: Daydisk2@webtv.net (Chaz Stuart)
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:15:03 -0500 (EST)
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >Furthermore, Bruce M., I am not trying to get on your bad-side,
 >but Jerry and Kenny are not the only ones who think the Gulf
 >Breeze case (at least the Ed Walter's portion of it) is full of
 >more holes than a case of Swiss cheese. Your proclamation that
 >Jerry Black is simply wrong about that case does not make it so
 >and there are many others who are bewildered and disappointed by
 >your continued support of Ed Walters.


Chaz;

You are entirely too kind. It's not a case of simple support of
Ed Walters, let's not forget that there BOOK which the doctor
co-authored with Ed Walters and all of the subsequent other Gulf
Breeze issues that Jerry Black has scrubbed up from the sleazy
UFOlogical under-realm into the light of day (far too many to
re-hash here, please refer to previous posts in UFO Update
archive - hah!).

One might liken this sort of co-authoring partnership to Stanton
Friedman co-authoring a book with "aliens in the freezer"
trickster Jonathan Reed. How's that for one? I wonder if any one
of the Nationals in UFOdumb might object to a Friedman/Reed
book? And if for one second you don't think this is a realistic
comparison... why not? I cannot think of any journalistic or
scientific discipline in which it would be ethically appropriate
for any individual -during investigative or research auspices-
  to collude with a claimant in such a manner.

More interesting would be Bill Hamilton, Jerome Clark, and
Stanton Friedman's (to name a few) neglect and disregard for the
many essential data points that expose Gulf Breeze. Instead we
see them offer a defense of the Gulf Breeze proponent(s) and
usually counter with contrary input when the hoax is revealed.
What the heck are you guys thinking? It seems like you folks
ought to know better and see right through this transparent ruse
and I wonder if you DO know better and simply think/hope others
don't.

I used the specific term 'debunking' in an earlier message as
that is the tactic I see employed here against Jerry Black.
Let's see, I wonder who came up with this 'rules for debunking'
guideline...? hmmm... It sure is being applied here. Wonder why?


KY
--
UFO RESEARCH
http://home.fuse.net/ufo







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         UFO UpDate:Cydonian Imperative: 05-05-02 Martian Biohazard

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 11:29:52 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:32:09 -0400
Subject: UFO UpDate:Cydonian Imperative: 05-05-02 Martian Biohazard

The Cydonian Imperative

5-5-02

NRC Warning: Exploring Mars May Be Hazardous to Your
Health

by Mac Tonnies

See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

The [US] National Research Council (NRC) has issued a report to
NASA regarding "the risk of harmful effects" from "Martian
biological agents." The report summarizes safety measures to be
taken to ensure Earth's biosphere is spared exposure from
possible Martian lifeforms, such as bacteria. While the
possibility of potentially dangerous microbes is real, the
issues addressed can be avoided by any technically competent
mission plan. Declaring Mars a "forbidden zone" isn't a rational
response to the challenge presented by possible Martian
pathogens; quite likely, it's politically motivated whining
designed to keep JPL at the helm with robotic ventures such as
the Sample Return Mission.

NASA justifies its proposed Sample Return Mission as an
important step in the "search for life" on Mars. It skillfully
ignores the fact that, from a statistical point of view, a
single "bucket" of Martian dirt is extremely unlikely to contain
microbes or fossils. A more varied and rigorous manned search is
necessary if we are to continue a serious search for alien life.
In fact, many of the sites thought most likely to harbor
organisms, such as the canyons of Vallis Marineris, are simply
unreachable by the current generation of landers and rovers.

In the long term, a Mars exploration program based on robotic
missions forms a vicious circle in terms of ever putting humans
on the Martian surface. Anything a JPL lander can do, an
astronaut can do more quickly, more fastidiously, and more
intelligently. For this reason I oppose much of NASA's new Mars
exploration timetable, which promises to keep various
subcontractors very busy, but will almost certainly fail to tell
us anything fundamentally new.

Even in the event that the Sample Return Mission performs
flawlessly and returns a small portion of Martian soil to Earth,
this will only provide us with sketchy, inconclusive data.
Alternately, a manned mission will be able to take near-endless
soil samples at a wide variety of locations as well as perform
analyses on the spot and engage in a plethora of other research
at the same time.

While the points raised by the NRC's report are certainly
topical, its suggestions don't bode well for the future of
crewed Mars exploration. In a field already encumbered by
bureaucratic back-peddling, the last thing Mars research needs
is a scientific argument arguing against manned exploration.
With new frontiers come new dangers, and the NRC's premature
portrait of Mars as a hostile world barred from human
exploration is yet another unnecessary obstacle in our pursuit
of knowledge. I hope that NASA can see the NRC's "threat" in its
proper perspective and act responsibly rather than "bailing
out."

-end-






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                       More On Kreskin's UFO Predition

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 20:34:34 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:34:14 -0400
Subject: More On Kreskin's UFO Predition


Source: Las Vegas Sun, May 5, 2002,

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/do/2002/may/03/513399307.html

The prediction is found at the end.

Stig

***

May 03, 2002

Mind over Matters

By Kirk Baird
<kirk@lasvegassun.com>
LAS VEGAS SUN

WEEKEND EDITION: May 5, 2002

**

When it comes to mind tricks, the Amazing Kreskin has carved out
a niche all his own.

For 40 years Kreskin, 67, has amazed and baffled with his
ability to seemingly read the thoughts of others.

Perhaps his most famous trick is his "check test," where random
members of his audience hide a check made out to Kreskin -- his
fee for the show -- somewhere in the theater or auditorium where
he is performing.

Relying solely on his apparent skills to read minds, Kreskin has
a limited time in which to locate the check. If, however, he is
unable to find the check, the money is donated to charity.

Out of 6,000 check tests, Kreskin claims he has failed only nine
times.

A favorite of both radio and TV talk-show hosts (it's been said
that Johnny Carson based his Carnac the Magnificent character on
Kreskin after seeing him trip and fall on "The Steve Allen
Show"), Kreskin is appearing through June 9 at Silverton.

Calling from the Newark, N.J., airport, Kreskin (whose real name
is George Joseph Kresge Jr.) recently spoke to the Sun about his
ability to read thoughts, whether that gives him an advantage
while gambling and his prediction that the biggest-recorded UFO
sighting will occur soon somewhere in Nevada:

Las Vegas Sun: You are billed as a "mentalist." What is the
difference between that and a psychic?

AK: First of of all, I don't claim any supernatural powers. If
you sit up in the audience, I might say your initials and then
say you're planning on a vacation next Oct. 10. You would say
yes. But if you asked me where you were going, but you hadn't
decided yet, I couldn't tell you because I'm not a
fortuneteller. You really have to hold the thought patterns in
your mind, otherwise there's nothing I can do.

I don't mean this about all psychics, but I can figure out why
more psychics don't spend more time at racetracks.

Sun: How is it that you have this ability?

AK: You've got to understand, I've been doing this since I was 9
1/2 years old. I played a game called "Hot and Cold" when I was
a kid, where they would hide something and you would walk around
(searching) and they would say, "You're getting warmer," (or,)
"you're getting colder."

In third grade I started finding things with nobody saying
anything. Teachers went wild. So it's been all my life and I've
learned to sensitize myself. At the same time, I can't do a
thing unless people cooperate. People have to cooperate,
otherwise I'm lost.

Sun: What are your thoughts on the popular syndicated show
"Crossing Over with John Edward"?

AK: During wars there's always been a great interest in
spiritualism, people who communicate with the dead. There's only
one problem I have: I just saw (missing Washington intern)
Chandra Levy's parents, whose daughter disappeared. So many of
these psychics and channelers said that she's dead.

But they would answer anyone doubting them at all if they would
simply contact her (Chandra), talk to her if she's dead and ask
her where her body is. My God, what a contribution they would
make. All you have to do is talk to a dead person who's been
murdered and ask them, "Where is your body?" Would that not
answer every single skeptic from now until doomsday?

Sun: How do you address critics who claim you're a hoax?

AK: Well, my answer is this: I've offered $50,000 to anyone who
can prove I employ paid assistance or confederates in any phase
of my program. A friend said the reason I don't hear much from
skeptics anymore is that I've been doing this for 40 years. He
said, "Kreskin, if somebody were secretly involved, they would
have blown the whistle a long time ago. No one keeps secrets
anymore."

Sun: With your thought-reading abilities, wouldn't you be a
casino's worst nightmare?

AK: Years ago, I forget where I was headlining, I went over to
see Siegfried and Roy when they were at the (old) MGM Grand. I
sat down at the blackjack table and I was suddenly banned. The
crew comes in and said, "You know, you can work here, but don't
approach any game of chance." And I said to them, "I didn't
think this was chance because I'm winning." Since then, most
casinos love to have me around because they say it gets better
PR ... and I usually leave after a short time. I relax playing
blackjack.

As a mentalist I have no advantage at blackjack, because the
dealer never looks at their down card anymore, so they don't
know what their cards are. And how can you read the mind of a
deck of playing cards? So I've got no advantage at all, if you
think about it. Poker is another thing. Oh, my God, I would have
a field day. That's the one game I can't play anywhere in the
world.

Sun: Although you don't claim to be psychic, you still make a
lot of predictions.

AK: I have steadfastly said I am not a fortuneteller or a
prophet, but for nine years in a row CNN has had me as the first
guest on New Year's Day reflecting on what changes I think are
going to happen around the world. I have, on those occasions,
made some dramatic statements.

On New Year's Day 2001 -- and this has been played back hundreds
of times in interviews and on other talk shows -- my prediction
was that we were already at war, the war of terrorism, and that
it possibly could develop into biological warfare. And then --
  and it came back to haunt me -- something will happen in the
month of September, a major disaster involving three or four
airlines.

Sun: I know you offered to read O.J. Simpson's mind to determine
his innocence or guilt. What are your impressions of Robert
Blake, now that he has been charged with murdering his wife?

AK: I don't know, it's such a tragedy. In the case of O.J., I
did it because the case (was) such a sideshow. But Blake, I
don't know. I'm not really into meeting with suspects of crime.
I work on crime cases in helping to develop evidence that was
unconsciously in the minds of witnesses.

I was given an award for a case in Reno of a coed that was
murdered, where two drivers just glanced out the window and
didn't realize they had seen the murderer. And by speaking with
them, we were able to build up a composite image of the
murderer. The newspaper in Reno had printed composite drawings
of what we developed. Three or four weeks later a person fitting
that description was spotted in Los Angeles, California, and it
turns out he was already a suspect for another murder.

But as far as people who are on trial, I'm not involved in that.

Sun: What about your recent prediction of a massive UFO sighting
in the next two months somewhere in the Nevada desert?

AK: My statement was this: The next great sighting, one of the
largest sightings in recorded history, will take place ... I
believe in the desert of Nevada sometime in either the month of
May or June. I'm so certain of this, that I have turned over a
statement to the Fox Network news people that if I fail, I will
then deposit in their hands $50,000 to be turned over to
charity.

To be honest, I'm not one to throw away money, but I am so
absolutely, positively certain of the prediction, that I put
$50,000 (on it). It will happen specifically in the desert
outside Las Vegas. I believe, while there will be scores and
scores of people, the number of UFOs reported will be three or
four in the sky.

When I first made this prediction, I hadn't even been scheduled
to perform in Nevada, but I hope I'm in (Las Vegas) because I
would like to hold a press conference the next day and I explain
how I came to the conclusion as early as March that this would
happen.

**

All contents =A9 1996 - 2002 Las Vegas Sun, Inc.
Nevada's Largest Website







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                  Re: ...Belief In Pseudoscience - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 07:41:22 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:38:05 -0400
Subject: Re: ...Belief In Pseudoscience - Hamilton


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 06:17:50 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience

 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Concern Over Widespread Belief In Pseudoscience
 >>Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:47:35 +0100

<snip>

 >What is wrong about a hypothesis, which seems overwhelming to
 >me, that some UFOs are of alien origin? After all we have really
 >amazing archaeological finds strongly pointing to alien
 >visitation in the past.

The ETH is still a strong hypothesis and there is nothing wrong
with it at all despite some naysayers who seem to think we are
alone in the universe or that psychological and metaphysical
answers are more appropriate.

 >Then we also have the recent case of U.S. military
 >archaeologists who, when booted out of an Australian
 >archaeological site, dynamited the place. Ditto for a site
 >somewhere in the midwest U.S. - sorry I can't recall the place
 >and discoverer's name at the moment.

 >We have "millions" of potential Earth-like planets now, don't
 >we? Or is it "billions"?

Possibly billions according to computer models and that is in
our own galaxy only. What of billions of other galaxies?

 >We have that case where bacteria survived the vacuum of the
 >Moon's surface for two years.

 >We have numerous sightings of beings, including those of the
 >abductees.

 >We have UFOs who inspected a test nuclear warhead in flight and
 >apparently disabled it.

 >What's wrong with being confident aliens are involved with UFOs?

Nothing at all as far as I am concerned, but then my personal
experiences overwhelmingly point in that direction and what we
need is equally overwheming evidence. We have evidence, but need
really strong evidence and that is why we investigate and keep
sniffing out new leads.

Bill H







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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 13:58:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:40:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 14:22:26 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:57:51 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:20:49 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >Jerry Black responded as follows:

 >>Keep in mind that as of May 3, 2002, we have not proven what
 >>his UFO phenomena represents, contrary to the many statements
 >>put out there by lead investigators such as Stanton Friedman,
 >>Kevin Randle, Bruce Maccabee and other notables in the field of
 >>Ufology who routinely state matter-of-factly that this phenomena
 >>absolutely represents extraterrestrials from another planet."

 >I have not said that this phenomena [sic] _absolutely_ represents
 >extraterrestrials from another planet.

Well, I take it back. In my previous post I wrote that Bruce,
among others Black has been criticizing, knows the difference
between "phenomena" and "phenomenon". The above indicates
otherwise. C'mon, Bruce, you know better, or should.


Jerry Clark







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              Re: Observer On Clark & Roberts Book - van Gemert

From: Jean van Gemert <j.vangemert@chello.nl>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 21:24:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 16:23:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Observer On Clark & Roberts Book - van Gemert

 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 05:27:52 +0200
 >Subject: Observer On Clark & Roberts Book

 >Source: The Observer (UK), May 5, 2002 - UK news

 >http://observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,710181,00.html

<snip>

 >Clarke said that the UFO craze began at the start of the Cold
 >War, when the new threat of atomic war with the Soviet Union
 >hung over the world. 'It was just simple to want to believe in
 >something up there in the sky that could come and rescue us,' he
 >said.

Of course there's no evidence for this suggestion at all, unless
you consider the contactee cases the best UFO evidence there is.

As for the decrease in radar reports, that straw man has been
discussed before on the list. With no contemporary "BlueBook"
system to channel reports to the public/researchers (after all,
that *is* where most of the radar cases came from), there's no
real way to tell how many UFOs show up on military radar these
days. I doubt that Clarke is privy to such intelligence
information.


Jean








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                          NSF Article & UFO Polls?

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 10:02:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 12:51:24 -0400
Subject: NSF Article & UFO Polls?


Question To Stan Friedman On The National Science Foundation
Article & UFO Polls


As Mark Twain observed, there are lies, damned lies, and then
there's statistics. I would limit that, however, to statistics
dishonestly misused, which seems to be the case with the NSF
article:

http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind02/c7/c7s5.htm#c7s5l2

The article asserts that "belief in pseudoscience" may be
responsible for the appallingly large number of people who are
unfamiliar with basic scientific facts, such as how long it
takes the Earth to orbit the sun. But nothing in the article
suggests a causal relationship between "belief" in phenomena the
NSF has chosen to label "pseudoscience" and scientific
illiteracy. More importantly, no correlation at all is shown
between educational level or other measures of literacy and
interest in UFOs, etc, except for astrology. In fact, the NSF
paper even admits that "The relationship between level of
education and belief in pseudoscience is not as straightforward
..."

In other words, they haven't found the relationship they wanted
to find but the government is telling people they ought to
believe it exists anyway. (How's _that_ for pseudoscientists
cynically exploiting public gullibility?).

This brings me to my question to Stan Friedman. Several years
ago, I saw one of Stan's video tapes in which he presented the
results of a Gallup poll from, as I recall, the 1980's showing
that interest in UFOs actually _increased_ with level of
education - the exact opposite of what the NSF article tries to
insinuate. My question to Stan is: do you know if any subsequent
polls were conducted that show the breakdown of interest in UFOs
into educational brackets? If there have been none, do you think
that it would be possible to persuade one of the major polling
organizations like Gallup or Zogby to conduct one?

The question I would like to see asked is not "Are UFOs Real?",
which is the ambiguous way most of these polling outfits phrase
it. It would be more informative to ask people to respond to a
set of statements such as the following:

"Not all UFOs can be explained as imaginary or as ordinary
phenomena misinterpreted by observers"

"The behavior of some UFOs as reported by eye witnesses and by
civilian and military radar matches the description of an
unconventional, intelligently controlled aircraft, better than
any other phenomenon."

"Government documents released under the Freedom of Information
Act indicate a much higher level of official interest in the UFO
phenomenon than is being admitted."

Poll respondents shouldn't be restricted to simple yes/no
answers. The way that polls are conducted on serious subjects is
to permit a range of answers: "Very likely", "Somewhat likely",
"Don't know", "Somewhat unlikely" and "Very unlikely".

Some other questions could be asked to establish how
knowledgeable the poll respondents are, such as whether they
have read any books on the subject of UFOs written by scientists
who work in 'mainstream' disciplines such as physics. They could
also be asked how long it takes the Earth to orbit the sun. :)

Then the respondents could be categorized by educational levels
and job status.

I suspect that the results of a poll with questions such as this
would be of considerable interest to UFO researchers, assuming a
polling organization could be persuaded to conduct one.






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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:52:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 16:26:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark


 >Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 01:59:07 -0700
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net Chaz Stuart>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:15:03 -0500 (EST)
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology


 >More interesting would be Bill Hamilton, Jerome Clark, and
 >Stanton Friedman's (to name a few) neglect and disregard for the
 >many essential data points that expose Gulf Breeze. Instead we
 >see them offer a defense of the Gulf Breeze proponent(s) and
 >usually counter with contrary input when the hoax is revealed.

Uh, say what? I don't recall that I said a word about Gulf
Breeze. And, having (like Kenny Young but unlike Bruce Maccabee)
no technical expertise whatever as a photoanalyst, I intend to
say nothing beyond the obvious - namely that, all else aside,
the case stands or falls on the photos. I'll look forward to
reading any informed criticism of Bruce's work on them and
continue to ignore untechnically trained but wildly self-
righteous arm-flailers.

Meantime, having nothing whatever to contribute to the
discussion (and, unlike some, admitting as much), I intend to
continue giving GB as little thought as possible.


Jerry Clark







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              Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 17:33:47 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 17:07:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Friedman


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology
 >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 11:26:53 -0500

 >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 13:57:51 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

<snip>

 >>In my opinion, Hopkins truly believes the people that he
 >>interviews for his books are telling him the truth as they know
 >>it to be. However, he does no serious investigation and research
 >>to determine if these stories are accurate.

 >This last sentence is, of course, a crock. Anybody who reads
 >Budd's books can follow his investigations and extensive efforts
 >to document the reports he collects. This sort of criticism can
 >fairly be made, and has been made (by me among others), of John
 >Mack, with whom Black seems to have confused Hopkins. Mack does
 >take testimony elicited under hypnosis more or less at face
 >value and does appear to let it go at that. Budd doesn't. Pick
 >up Intruders or Witnessed for specifics.

 >>Keep in mind that as of May 3, 2002, we have not proven what
 >>this UFO phenomena [sic] represents, contrary to the many statements
 >>put out there by lead investigators such as Stanton Friedman,
 >>Kevin Randle, Bruce Maccabee and other notables in the field of
 >>Ufology who routinely state matter-of-factly that this phenomena [sic]
 >>absolutely represents extraterrestrials from another planet."

 >Well, at least they know the difference between "phenomenon" and
 >"phenomena." Might I recommend a dictionary to Mr. Black?


I certainly must agree with Jerry Clark about Budd. I consider
his work more scientific than that of many scientists. Mr Black
has clearly misrperesented my views.

I start just about all my lectures with 4 major conclusions
after 44 years of study and investigation. The first is "The
evidence is overwhelming that Planet Earth is being visited by
intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. In other
words  _some_ UFOs are ET spacecraft (underline the SOME 18
times!). Most are not. I don't care about them anymore than I
care about the great majority of isotopes that are not
fissionable when I am working on a reactor design"

I do not see how this can be legitimately converted to "this
phenomena (sic) absolutely represents extraterrestrials from
another planet." Please, Mr. Black, use that dictionary to look
up 'some'.

Incidentally my rule three for debunkers is "If you can't attack
the data, attack the people. It's easier."


Stan Friedman







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                   Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Friedman

From: Stantanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:53:06 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 06:31:40 -0400
Subject: Re:  NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Friedman


 >Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 10:02:06 -0500
 >Subject: NSF Article & UFO Polls?
 >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

 >Question To Stan Friedman On The National Science Foundation
 >Article & UFO Polls

 >As Mark Twain observed, there are lies, damned lies, and then
 >there's statistics. I would limit that, however, to statistics
 >dishonestly misused, which seems to be the case with the NSF
 >article:

 >http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind02/c7/c7s5.htm#c7s5l2

 >The article asserts that "belief in pseudoscience" may be
 >responsible for the appallingly large number of people who are
 >unfamiliar with basic scientific facts, such as how long it
 >takes the Earth to orbit the sun. But nothing in the article
 >suggests a causal relationship between "belief" in phenomena the
 >NSF has chosen to label "pseudoscience" and scientific
 >illiteracy. More importantly, no correlation at all is shown
 >between educational level or other measures of literacy and
 >interest in UFOs, etc, except for astrology. In fact, the NSF
 >paper even admits that "The relationship between level of
 >education and belief in pseudoscience is not as straightforward

I intended to present some of the data concerning education vs
belief in UFOs in my letter to Dr. Krauss providing him with a
copy of my letter to the NY Times. The data are in my article
"Who Believes in UFOs?" from the January/February 1989 issue of
IUR.

In the 1978 poll it was found that the percentages of those with
grade school, high school and college backgrounds who said "Yes"
to the Question "In your opinion are UFOs something real or just
people's Imagination?" were 36, 57, and 66%. If we leave out
those who said "Not sure", the %s were 49,68,74. In other words,
the better the education the More likely to accept UFO reality.
I would expect that the greater the education, the more likely
to do well on the science quiz... Ergo belief in "Pseudoscience"
as defined by the NSF debunkers (Note: Michael Schermer) does
not cause ignorance of science.

 >In other words, they haven't found the relationship they wanted
 >to find but the government is telling people they ought to
 >believe it exists anyway. (How's _that_ for pseudoscientists
 >cynically exploiting public gullibility?).

 >This brings me to my question to Stan Friedman. Several years
 >ago, I saw one of Stan's video tapes in which he presented the
 >results of a Gallup poll from, as I recall, the 1980's showing
 >that interest in UFOs actually _increased_ with level of
 >education - the exact opposite of what the NSF article tries to
 >insinuate. My question to Stan is: do you know if any subsequent
 >polls were conducted that show the breakdown of interest in UFOs
 >into educational brackets? If there have been none, do you think
 >that it would be possible to persuade one of the major polling
 >organizations like Gallup or Zogby to conduct one?

 >The question I would like to see asked is not "Are UFOs Real?",
 >which is the ambiguous way most of these polling outfits phrase
 >it. It would be more informative to ask people to respond to a
 >set of statements such as the following:

 >"Not all UFOs can be explained as imaginary or as ordinary
 >phenomena misinterpreted by observers"

 >"The behavior of some UFOs as reported by eye witnesses and by
 >civilian and military radar matches the description of an
 >unconventional, intelligently controlled aircraft, better than
 >any other phenomenon."

 >"Government documents released under the Freedom of Information
 >Act indicate a much higher level of official interest in the UFO
 >phenomenon than is being admitted."

 >Poll respondents shouldn't be restricted to simple yes/no
 >answers. The way that polls are conducted on serious subjects is
 >to permit a range of answers: "Very likely", "Somewhat likely",
 >"Don't know", "Somewhat unlikely" and "Very unlikely".

 >Some other questions could be asked to establish how
 >knowledgeable the poll respondents are, such as whether they
 >have read any books on the subject of UFOs written by scientists
 >who work in 'mainstream' disciplines such as physics. They could
 >also be asked how long it takes the Earth to orbit the sun. :)

 >Then the respondents could be categorized by educational levels
 >and job status.

 >I suspect that the results of a poll with questions such as this
 >would be of considerable interest to UFO researchers, assuming a
 >polling organization could be persuaded to conduct one.

Two polls were conducted by Industrial Research and Development
Magazine at my request with backing from a CUFOS member whose
name escapes me.

In the 1979 response to the question "Do you believe that UFOs
Exist?" 27% said Definitely, 34% said Probably,12% were
Undecided,20% said probably not, 8% said Definitely not.

In response to the question "if you consider the possibility of
UFO existence, where do you think they originate? 2% said USA,
less than 1% said communist nations, 44% said outer-space, 28%
said natural phenomena and 26% were undecided. Of the poll
respondents, 23% had a PhD, 25% had an MS and 40% a BS.

Several other polls are cited in my article.

After my lecture at the University of Manitoba to a packed
house, I was asked to poll the audience. Fewer than 10% said no
UFOs are ET spacecraft.

Ron Westrum and a colleague (grad student, I think) did a lot of
looking at the Industrial Research and Development poll
responses and picked up  some good sightings, too.


Stan Friedman







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                    Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Randle

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:01:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 08:33:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Randle


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:09:38 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics


 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:12:19 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:22:18 -500
 >>>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
 >>>>Subject: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>>Greeting Bill, List and Readers

 >>><snip>

 >>>>Here is what was presented by Don:

 >>>>Almost fifty-five years and four explanations have past and
 >>>>still the Roswell crash of 1947 remains one of the greatest
 >>>>mysteries of all time. Within recent years there has been a
 >>>>proliferation of anti-Roswell books that are not only debunking
 >>>>but resort to nothing less than pure character assassination.

 >>>When allegations of "Character Assassination" come from
 >>>researchers like Don Schmitt, we definitely have ourselves a
 >>>Kettle-Black situation. If Don was referring to comments about
 >>>him, he has only himself to blame. It was not the skeptic
 >>>community that lied about his education, employment, and
 >>>especially his Roswell-related research, methods and
 >>>conclusions. His history of distortion is so well known, I
 >>>wonder at the level of support he receives today.

 >>>"...I do not now believe anything that Schmitt says and neither
 >>>should you."

 >>>(Kevin Randle - in his To Whom It May Concern Letter dated Sept
 >>>10, 1995)

 >>>If Don was referring to Maj. Jessie Marcel: Again, it was
 >>>Jessie, and no one else, that told people like Moore and Pratt
 >>>some pretty wild tales about his education and military record.
 >>>It has been claimed many times by researchers that Jessie had no
 >>>reason to lie about what he found on Foster's Ranch. But then,
 >>>it is equally true that he had no reason to inflate his military
 >>>record either.

 >>Bruce, Bill, List, All -

 >>I find myself a little puzzled here. I have waited for some sort
 >>of response to this suggestion that Don Schmitt has lied about
 >>his background, education, occupation, parts of his Roswell
 >>investigation and the like, yet no one seems willing to
 >>challenge Bruce on these points. It seems to me that we are in
 >>agreement about this.

 >>Bill, I don't mean to single you out, but when you attended the
 >>lecture, were you aware of the baggage that Schmitt brought to
 >>it? If not, then what is your reaction now, to the information
 >>he presented? Do you find it to be credible? I am interested in
 >>why anyone would listen to a thing he has to say, given what we
 >>know about him.

 >Yes, partially. I know he lied about his background. In all
 >fairness, his lecture was fairly straight forward, not much
 >elaboration on the story given in your books. Surprised?
 >Maybe he wasn't taking any chances going out on a limb.
 >The only thing that sounded a little different to me was
 >the story of 2 alien bodies found 2.5 miles from the debris
 >field. This I have not heard or read anywhere!

On our very first research trip into Roswell, Cliff Stone told
us about this point, some two and one half miles from the debris
field where bodies were found. Stone provided a map, called his
friend Ralph Heick who said they had been out there looking for
this site. In discussions with Bill Brazel, Loretta Procker and
others, it became clear that this information was less than
accurate.

You might remember that the MJ-12 Eisenhower Briefing document
also referred to a site, not that far from the debris field
where bodies were found. Since the Eisenhower Briefing contains
information that is less than accurate (Del Rio in December,
1950 for example) I do not see this as corroboration for this
idea that bodies, and part of a craft, were found two and a half
miles away.

I guess the point here is that there is nothing original in
this.

KRandle






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               Budd Hopkins UFO Seminar Announcement - 5/18/02

From: Intruders Foundation <IFConfer@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 18:34:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 08:35:34 -0400
Subject: Budd Hopkins UFO Seminar Announcement - 5/18/02


Budd Hopkins UFO Seminar Announcement - 5/18/02 (NYC)

Intruders Foundation Seminar Series Announcement

THE VARGHINA UFO ENCOUNTER

Saturday, May 18, 2002

Marshall Lee, a longtime publishing professional, writer, and
UFO investigator, will discuss this extraordinary and extremely
well-documented Brazilian case in which an apparent UFO crash
led to the alleged capture of its small, helpless occupants.
Numerous witnesses - civilian, medical, and military - have
attested to their personal involvement, and Mr. Lee, who spent
many years researching this case, will offer supporting slides,
documentation, and eyewitness testimony as he takes the audience
step by step through this truly bizarre incident. The speaker
recently presented this material in a well-received lecture at
the Laughlin, Nevada UFO Congress. The Intruders Foundation
welcomes Mr. Lee in an evening that promises to be an exciting
and informative evening.


REGISTRATION & INFORMATION

The seminar will be held on May 18th at the meeting rooms of
A.R.E., on the tenth floor of 150 W. 28th Street, New York, NY.
The price of the seminar is $30 for non-members and $20 for
members of IF, seniors, and students. Reservations must be made
by telephone at 212-645-5278, and will be filled on a first
come, first served basis. Payment must be made in advance to
secure the reservation. Make checks payable to the Intruders
Foundation, P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011. Only 50
reservations will be accepted.

On-street parking is generally available in the neighborhood.
The seminar will begin at 7:30 PM and end at 10:00 PM. Doors
open at 7:00 PM. There will be a one half-hour intermission,
during which light complimentary refreshments will be served. A
book table will offer books, videotapes, and other material for
sale to those interested. For additional information, call IF at
212-645-5278.

Hope to see you there!

----------

UPCOMING SEMINARS - Mark Your Calendars!

* June 22nd =E2=80=A6... David Jacobs on "Alien Hybrids"

----------

The Intruders Foundation Seminar Series is presented in the
interests of open-minded scientific learning and the free
exchange of research, ideas, and theories. IF makes no specific
claims or endorsements regarding any materials, views, or
subject matter presented by our guests.

----------

Want to know more about Budd Hopkins and his nonprofit
scientific research organization, as well as past and future IF
events? Please visit our website:


Intruders Foundation Website: www.intrudersfoundation.org

----------








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                    Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 18:34:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 08:39:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology
 >Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:52:13 -0500

 >>More interesting would be Bill Hamilton, Jerome Clark, and
 >>Stanton Friedman's (to name a few) neglect and disregard for the
 >>many essential data points that expose Gulf Breeze. Instead we
 >>see them offer a defense of the Gulf Breeze proponent(s) and
 >>usually counter with contrary input when the hoax is revealed.

 >Uh, say what? I don't recall that I said a word about Gulf
 >Breeze. And, having (like Kenny Young but unlike Bruce Maccabee)
 >no technical expertise whatever as a photoanalyst, I intend to
 >say nothing beyond the obvious - namely that, all else aside,
 >the case stands or falls on the photos. I'll look forward to
 >reading any informed criticism of Bruce's work on them and
 >continue to ignore untechnically trained but wildly self-
 >righteous arm-flailers.


Yes, Jerry Clark is 100% accurate when saying that he has not
offered input pro or con the specifics of Gulf Breeze, but it
would be the incredibly dismissive debunkerism by you guys of
Jerry Black which I object to. The 'wildy self-righteous arm-
  flailing' comment is an example of how this mentality fits
neatly into Stan's "rules for debunkerism" which he seems to be
practicing so conveniently with regards to Black. I will admit
that Jerry Black's aggressive forcefulness furnishes ammunition
for such criticism, but his sentiments find a home with those
(like myself) who are sick and tired of all the troubles and
drivel that beleaguer the UFO field.

Also, as per the remarks of Lan Fleming regarding motives, I
would kindly offer that the exploration of 'motives' of both the
claimant and promoter of UFO related information is a legitimate
subject of inquiry. Any investigator taking information should
recognize this and the question of intent or motivation is and
_should_ always be a key, paramount investigative concern. It is
neither mud-slinging nor 'self destructive' attacks to undertake
such concern. This was, indeed, a puzzling message from Mr.
Fleming and simply goes to show the extent to which Gulf
Breezers deflect away from the main data points in attempt to
assail the individual.

Again, please refer to UFO UpDate Archives for the many
compelling reasons that strongly suggests this Gulf Breeze
travesty is a complete farce.


Take care,

Kenny Young

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo







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                    Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:47:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 08:42:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 17:02:25 -0700
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman

 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:12:19 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >As I've stated repeatedly, you and I agree on much about Roswell
 >but you haven't done your homework on the FW debris photos.

Neither have you Ed.

 >The debris pictured there is not from a NYU Rawin and I challenge
 >you to prove that it is.

And I challenge you to prove that it isn't. Just proclaiming
that it isn't a Rawin doesn't make it so. It is obvious from
your many false statements below about construction details that
you proclamations about it not being a Rawin are based largely
on ignorance.

 >To do so, you'll have to measure the debris and show how it
 >matches the known dimensions of a NYU Rawin.

I've done this and it's a very good match.

Incidentally, the only other person I know who is doing a
quantitative analysis besides myself is Andrew LaVoie. Perhaps
some of your statements are based on his preliminary results,
which didn't initially agree with my own.

Andrew and I thrashed out our measurement differences over the
phone and e-mail. He finally realized he had made a mistake in
his assumptions about the radiator dimensions, which threw his
scaling off. He also realized he wasn't properly taking
perspective into account, again throwing off his scaling. When
he finally made these corrections, we seemed to agree within a
few percent on several test objects.

I don't know what his latest results are, but I doubt if they
depart significantly from my own. He did e-mail me about one
prominent stick in the foreground which he measured being a
millimeter or two wide over what he thought the specs were. But
I'm not going to reject this as a Rawin because of a mm or 2,
based on Charles Moore's radar target model dating to 1953. We
don't know what production model is shown in this photo or
exactly what the specs were from 1947 or before. Neither does
Moore for that matter.

It would be like rejecting that a wreck of a 1947 Chevy came
from a Chevy because the dimensions on some of the pieces were
slightly different from a 1953 Chevy.

 >We know that a Rawin is constructed of nine triangles and these
 >triangles are all 34 inches x 24 inches x24 inches.

Not exactly correct. 8 of the 9 triangles were paired and made
of one sheet. Hence there were 4 larger triangles of foil/paper,
each measuring about 34 x 34 x 48, and one remaining smaller one
measuring 34 x 24 x 24.

I tried to describe this in detail some months back,

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jan/m18-012.shtml

But apparently you didn't learn a thing from it.

 >To prove your case, you need to find nine tape-like edges that
 >measure 34 inches and are connected to interior members/struts
 >that measure 24 inches.

No, completely untrue. There are still nine edges where the
foil/paper was wrapped around the exterior framework sticks, but
not all of them are "tape-like". About half of them were wrapped
foil side in, hence paper-side out. This formed a white strip
(the "tape-like" strip, but not made of tape). You would expect
either 4 or 5 of these, not 9. The remaining sticks (4 or 5) had
the paper-side in, or foil on the outside.

You can easily make out 4 or maybe 5 of the expected white
strips in the photos and no others. Four of the 5 triangles can
also be clearly made out. The remainder of foil pieces are torn
up into smaller chunks, making clear discernment of a 5th
triangle difficult.

You also won't necessarily find sticks where you might expect
them or sheaths all of the correct length because (need I repeat
the obvious?) the target was _torn up_!  The triangles aren't
completely whole, sticks slid out of their sheaths, and other
sticks were torn away from the foil/paper covering. Nonetheless,
I can clearly make out portions of 3 of the 24" interior struts
just where you would expect them in the centers of the
triangles, and several of the 34" exterior struts still within
their exterior sheaths.

An obvious example of the latter is the most intact large
triangle being held by all the participants in all the photos.
Check out the Ramey/Dubose smiling photo, e.g., with the propped
up triangle leaning against Dubose. It has the white strip of
the correct length at the left of the triangle (though folded
because the stick has slipped out) and a stick of the correct
length on the right.

Three of the triangles lying on the ground have central sticks
in the middle of the foil/paper sticks where you would expect
them. At least two of these are broken.

 >You're not going to be able to do that because there aren't any
 >in the photos.

You won't find _9_ "tape-like" white strips in photos, because
the ML-307 didn't have that many. They were made with 4 or 5.
Get your facts straight.

 >You also will not find any supporting struts (balsa wood) that
 >are the correct dimensions for a NYU Rawin.

Totally false. I have measured these sticks, and with the
exception of maybe 2 or 3, they have dimensions completely
compatible with what is expected for that model Rawin. One stick
to the far right in the Ramey/Dubose smiling photo is clearly
too long, too thin, twisted, and of a different color than the
other sticks. It definitely isn't from a Rawin. I don't know
about the other 2.

Where do you get your statement that _none_ of the sticks are of
the correct dimensions?

 >Also on the NYU Rawin, the paper/foil material that folds over
 >the struts should be folded paper to paper (as per specs) rather
 >than foil to foil as seen in the FW photos.

As I have pointed out before, this statement is completely
false. Maybe you should study the actual engineering schematic
and some photos of constructed Rawins which show half the edges
to be folded foil-to-foil or foil-side-in, hence the white paper
strip on the outside.

 >If the debris was from a UNU Rawin, you wouldn't find these anomalies.

99% of these so-called "anomalies" are strictly in your
imagination Ed. 1% "anomaly" (like the weird stick) does not
make the other 99% not come from a Rawin. Get a grip.


David Rudiak







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                    Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:55:46 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 08:44:42 -0400
Subject: Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - White


 >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 10:02:06 -0500
 >Subject: NSF Article & UFO Polls?

 >Question To Stan Friedman On The National Science Foundation
 >Article & UFO Polls

<snip>

 >I suspect that the results of a poll with questions such as this
 >would be of considerable interest to UFO researchers, assuming a
 >polling organization could be persuaded to conduct one.

FYI, polling organizations often collect questions for a while,
then poll a sample population on a whole range of issues.

To get questions as proposed by Mr. Fleming in to one of these
bundled polls, a few years ago a price quoted me was $600 US per
question, so it's mainly a matter of coming up with the price.


Eleanor White

Hamilton, Ontario







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                   Re: International UFO Petition - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 03:53:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 08:53:12 -0400
Subject: Re: International UFO Petition - Bowden


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: International UFO Petition
 >Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:13:12 -0500


 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:14:25 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: International UFO Petition


 >>Can anyone explain to me what is the point of these petitions to
 >>governmental and quasi-governmental bodies?

 >It's a pro-active effort by the otherwise powerless, Mr. Rimmer,
 >to do something lawful about a degree of ignorance so
 >egregiously obvious and detrimental to the aggregate human
 >spirit that it cannot be countenanced. Some of us, offended by
 >individuals obviously comfortable with the in-active status quo,
 >are looking for any ethical way we can to raise the
 >consciousness of our fellows to force the issue. A petition to
 >the UN is just one such ethical activity.

For those of us with the IQ of an M&M please allow me to
interpret the above.

If any of you are interested in the possibility of getting any
answers sign the petition.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition/


Pretty please,

Dave Bowden






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               Re: Observer On Clark & Roberts Book - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 1:25:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 08:55:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Observer On Clark & Roberts Book - Aldrich


 >From: Jean van Gemert <j.vangemert@chello.nl>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 21:24:53 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Observer On Clark & Roberts Book

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 05:27:52 +0200
 >>Subject: Observer On Clark & Roberts Book

 >>Source: The Observer (UK), May 5, 2002 - UK news

 >>http://observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,710181,00.html

 ><snip>

 >>Clarke said that the UFO craze began at the start of the Cold
 >>War, when the new threat of atomic war with the Soviet Union
 >>hung over the world. 'It was just simple to want to believe in
 >>something up there in the sky that could come and rescue us,' he
 >>said.

 >Of course there's no evidence for this suggestion at all, unless
 >you consider the contactee cases the best UFO evidence there is.

 >As for the decrease in radar reports, that straw man has been
 >discussed before on the list. With no contemporary "BlueBook"
 >system to channel reports to the public/researchers (after all,
 >that *is* where most of the radar cases came from), there's no
 >real way to tell how many UFOs show up on military radar these
 >days. I doubt that Clarke is privy to such intelligence
 >information.


Unit histories during the establishment of the Japan Air Defense
system, 1952-3 reveal a large number of unknown tracks. Many
could be explained as aircraft that had not filed the necessary
plans, operator inexperience, etc. The number of unknown tracks
started to fall as operators became more experienced. But as
Ruppelt mentioned in his book Far East Air Force (FEAF) started
to get more and better radar UFO reports in 1952. There were a
large of high speed tracks during 1951-52 noted by FEAF. These
were put down to radar interference, but never properly
explained. See Brad Spark's re-evaluations of Project Blue Book
unknowns at

http://198.63.56.18/pdf/bluebookunknowns-v1.pdf

Radar sightings in FEAF go back to 1947. See page 15 of AIR 203

http://www.project1947.com/fig/1948air.htm

Project Pinball statistics from the Alaskan Air Command revealed
in a number of unit histories show a high number of unknown
tracks. No doubt many were Soviet.

The Condon Committee failed to vigorously pursue unknown tracks
saved in the SAGE systems of NORAD. In fact the cooperation with
NORAD appears to have been on a rather low level.

Robert Todd had a large collection of radar sightings in the
1975-76, summary sheets of unknown tracks from the National
Military Command Center. It should be noted that many of these
track faded before interceptor could check them out or were lost
in dense flight patterns of the big cities.

The FOIA of the 1998 of Edward Air Force revealed no records of
radar contact. However, a Project 1947 member visited the
controllers and found that while they did indeed have an unknown
track, no one would log it or sign his name to it.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135






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               Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 00:36:01 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 08:59:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart


Have any of you, besides Dr. Bruce, actually talked to Jerry
Black about what he discovered about Gulf Breeze/Ed Walters
?
I'm sure you've all heard the pro-G.B. side, but you really
should talk to him before swallowing hook, line and sinker.

I, at one time, also rather believed the Walters photos might be
genuine but my eyes were opened and I think yours would be too
by inputting a little additional info.

If any or all of you want to get in touch with him, I can
probably arrange that. He has recently re-located, so his old
phone number is no good.


Regards,

Chaz







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               Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 01:03:47 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:15:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart


"Can't we all just get along?" That seems to be what most of you
are saying/asking.

So, where do we draw the line between friendship/loyalty and
good UFO invesigation/research?

It's admirable to stick up for your friends and I imagine it
certainly makes things easier when you haven't criticized or
debunked the people you must share a stage with on a lecture
circuit.

At what point, however, does friendship and loyalty become
detrimental to objective reporting?

The lesser of two evils, I suppose, would be to simply offer "no
comment", but even that can sometimes imply approval. Do all of
you Budd Hopkins supporters actually believe the Linda Cortile
fiasco? Honestly?

I have been friends with Kenny Young since November, 1994 when
we worked on the Owensville, Ohio case together. I still,
however, openly disagree with his assessment of the Phoenix
lights and the Southern Ohio lights as being only flares, and
this has not seriously affected our friendship... er, I don't
think... right, Kenny?

Credibility is lost when loyalty overshadows objectivity.

Chaz







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               Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Randle

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:15:35 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:32:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Randle


 >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 00:36:01 -0500 (EST)
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology


 >Have any of you, besides Dr. Bruce, actually talked to Jerry
 >Black about what he discovered about Gulf Breeze/Ed Walters?

Yes.

KRandle







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                  Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Rutkowski

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:55:49 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:11:56 -0400
Subject: Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Rutkowski


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:55:46 +0000
 >To: updates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - White

 >>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 10:02:06 -0500
 >>Subject: NSF Article & UFO Polls?

 >>Question To Stan Friedman On The National Science Foundation
 >>Article & UFO Polls
 >>I suspect that the results of a poll with questions such as this
 >>would be of considerable interest to UFO researchers, assuming a
 >>polling organization could be persuaded to conduct one.

 >FYI, polling organizations often collect questions for a while,
 >then poll a sample population on a whole range of issues.
 >To get questions as proposed by Mr. Fleming in to one of these
 >bundled polls, a few years ago a price quoted me was $600 US per
 >question, so it's mainly a matter of coming up with the price.

That's true, so that's why I suggested in 1997 that Canadian
ufologists should band together and do something constructive by
assisting in the conducting of a national poll about UFOs. I
figured that 20 people across the country could do 50
respondents each (or 10 doing 100) and we would get a pretty
representative sample with good results. Guess what happened?
Everyone endorsed the idea, but no one wanted to do the work.
The details are on my website, with a link to the poll results:

www.geocities.com/thecynicalview







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                 'UFO Discussion Sites Invade Online World'

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:58:24 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:29:13 -0400
Subject: 'UFO Discussion Sites Invade Online World'


Source: Chicago Tribune, May 6, 2002.
You have to register to visit the page.

Stig

***

UFO discussion sites invade online world
Enthusiasts cover all points of view

By Dave Peyton

Tribune Media Services
Published May 6, 2002

**

Are UFOs real? They are on the Web.

Cyberspace has become a popular gathering place for people who
want to talk about unidentified flying objects.

Some attempt to prove that UFOs are spaceships from other
galaxies. Some try to prove that world governments know UFOs
exist and are trying to hide the truth. Still more are anxious
to debunk UFOs as mass hysteria and myths.

For those holding any of these points of view, there's more on
the Web than you could pore over in a lifetime. The National UFO
Reporting Center (www .nwlink.com/(tilde)ufocntr) offers
historical reports of UFO sightings, as well as sightings by
users. Such sightings are posted anonymously in the database
monthly, according to location and date. If nothing else,
they're interesting reading.

The UFO Roundup (www .ufoinfo.com/roundup) offers a weekly
compilation of UFO-related events and stories. Aficionados can
stay current on the latest UFO sightings and news about UFO
research.

UFOSeek (www.ufoseek.com) offers a search engine for those
interested in UFOs and other manifestations of the paranormal.
Search for online articles about everything from alchemy and
alien abductions to witchcraft and World War III.

The British have their own UFO research society. The British UFO
Research Association's Web page is at www.bufora.org .uk. BUFORA
is a network of about a thousand people "who have a dedicated,
non-cultist interest in understanding the UFO mystery. Within
that membership are many active investigators and researchers
working with the direct claims of witnesses to collate the data
necessary to bring the understanding nearer."

The site is low-key and scientific, making it one of the most
believable of all the UFO sites on the Web.

The Black Vault (www.blackvault.com) is a great example of how
to use the federal Freedom of Information Act to get government
information about UFOs-- and anything else that interests you.
John Greenewald, now 21, was in high school when he launched the
site. You'll find scores of government documents relating to
UFOs, as well as tips from Greenewald on how to use the law and
obtain information for yourself. "The law exists ... you might
as well use it," Greenewald says.

Dr. Stephen M. Greer, the international director of the Center
for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (www.cseti .com),
has concluded that extraterrestrial life forms exist. His
organization is "dedicated to establishing peaceful and
sustainable relations with extraterrestrial life forms."

A note on the main page claims that people in the president's
office, as well as Pentagon officials, visit the site regularly.
There are quotes about UFOs from public figures, including
Presidents Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter.

**

Copyright =A9 2002, Chicago Tribune







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                       BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 16:17:15 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:34:27 -0400
Subject: BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book


Source: 'alt.alien.visitors', May 6, 2002.

Stig

***

From: David Patrick <spsptrck@reading.ac.uk>
Newsgroups:
alt.alien.visitors,alt.alien.research,alt.paranet.ufo,sci.skeptic
Subject: UFOs and the British military  was Re: UFOs and the
National State
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:47:32 +0100
Organization: University of Reading

**

There has been a programme on BBC Radio 4 and at least one
article in the UK Sunday broadsheets about a new book
investigating the UK military's investigations into UFOs since
WWII.

In the radio programme one of the reasons given why the
government kept UFO reports secret was the state of our radar
system. The UK is very close to the old USSR and the radar was
our first line of defence and had been hyped as such to the
public. The truth was that it was old and picked up numerous
blips that simply weren't there as equipment in use was still
very basic.

These had to be chased by planes to make sure they weren't
Soviet craft, but no public report could ever be issued about
them so the Russians couldn't learn the capabilities of our
radar system. Obviously, if a report said that a trace was not
real (or not seen at all) and the Soviets had managed to
penetrate UK airspace without being discovered the news would be
very helpful to them.

The falibility of early (and even modern) radar systems was not
even mentioned in the introduction you cut and pasted, Flaffer.
What is your opinion of the above reason for military secrecy
into UFO reports?


David Patrick







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               Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Clarke

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:30:02 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:38:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Clarke


 >From: Jean van Gemert <j.vangemert@chello.nl>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 21:24:53 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book

 >>Source: The Observer (UK), May 5, 2002 - UK news

 >>http://observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,710181,00.html

 ><snip>

 >As for the decrease in radar reports, that straw man has been
 >discussed before on the list. With no contemporary "BlueBook"
 >system to channel reports to the public/researchers (after all,
 >that *is* where most of the radar cases came from), there's no
 >real way to tell how many UFOs show up on military radar these
 >days. I doubt that Clarke is privy to such intelligence
 >information.


Hi Jean,

Who says there is "no way to tell how many UFOs show up on
military radar these days." There may be no Blue Book but
reports investigated by the British MoD are available at the
Public Record Office and via the fledgling FOIA in the UK.

The lack of _good_quality_ radar reports in recent years can be
demonstrated by anyone who cares to put in the legwork in the
archives, and by interviewing those whose job it was to
investigate unusual radar tracks, as we did during the writing
of 'Out of the Shadows.'

Only recently, I was discussing this precise question with Air
Vice Marshal Alan White, who was Director of Operations (Air
Defence and Overseas), MOD, 1977-79 and Senior Air Staff Officer
at HQ No 11 Group 1979-1981. I asked him about UFOs tracked by
radar:

"In my time, the Ground Environment element of the Directorate
of Operations, was the piece of the MOD that dealt with all
reported sighting of an enquiries by the public about UFOs.
Ground Environment is the grand title that covered everything to
do with air defence radars.

"The logic behind this was that if anyone was going to verify
anything in the sky it was the people who peered at what was
going on via very powerful radars kept an account of all
planned civil and military flights in the UK Flight Information
Region and in the Air Defence Area, controlled the interception
of any unplanned ones, and recorded everything by photographing
the radar screens at frequent and regular intervals 24 hours a
day.

"Not once, during my time in the Directorate, was anything
recorded on radar to coincide with, or explain, any of the
sightings reported to us. There was plenty of scrambles (350 a
year from Leuchars when I was Station Commander) to identify and
shadow Russian aircraft, but I did not know of, nor had I heard
of, any scrambles in pursut of strange phenomena."

Hardly a "straw man" - if anyone should know, AVM White would.
OK maybe the good quality cases were being hidden from him, but
that is not an argument that stands up to scrutiny.

I should point out, with regard to the Observer article, that
our book does not conclude that UFOs are 'all in the mind'. Yes
we believe there is a social phenomenon that is ripe for study
by social scientists, but there is also an objective phenomena
too. What that may be I don't know, but that is beyond the remit
of the book which was written as a history of British Government
investigations and their context in Cold War history. You can
agree or disagree with the British MOD's approach to the subject
(and I have done, vehemently, during the course of my research),
but as a historian you document what the documentary and oral
evidence suggests happened at the time.

Two of the detailed reports from RAF aircrew described in the
book (those by Farnborough test pilots in 1950, and the report
by the crew of a Meteor during 'Exercise Mainbrace'), are
inexplicable as far as I'm concerned. The latter had a radar
aspect to the report. My point is that such high quality
radar/visuals are few and far between, and are largely
concentrated during the 1950s. Research into the MOD archives,
1962-1972 brought less than a handful of radar cases to light,
none of which featured a visual component. That cannot simply be
a 'blip'!

Best,

Dave Clarke







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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:10:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:40:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark


 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 18:34:42 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology
 >>Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:52:13 -0500

 >>Uh, say what? I don't recall that I said a word about Gulf
 >>Breeze. And, having (like Kenny Young but unlike Bruce Maccabee)
 >>no technical expertise whatever as a photoanalyst, I intend to
 >>say nothing beyond the obvious - namely that, all else aside,
 >>the case stands or falls on the photos. I'll look forward to
 >>reading any informed criticism of Bruce's work on them and
 >>continue to ignore untechnically trained but wildly self-
 >>righteous arm-flailers.

 >Yes, Jerry Clark is 100% accurate when saying that he has not
 >offered input pro or con the specifics of Gulf Breeze, but it
 >would be the incredibly dismissive debunkerism by you guys of
 >Jerry Black which I object to. The 'wildy self-righteous arm-
 >flailing' comment is an example of how this mentality fits
 >neatly into Stan's "rules for debunkerism" which he seems to be
 >practicing so conveniently with regards to Black. I will admit
 >that Jerry Black's aggressive forcefulness furnishes ammunition
 >for such criticism, but his sentiments find a home with those
 >(like myself) who are sick and tired of all the troubles and
 >drivel that beleaguer the UFO field.

Unfortunately, by his careless hurling of irresponsible charges
against individuals, Black is only adding more "troubles and
drivel" to the UFO field. He is operating under the strange
belief - almost beyond naive - that all of ufology's problems
exist because of a few wicked people. In fact, as far as I can
tell from knowing them for many years and reading their
respective writings, these are well-meaning, like-all-of-us-
  imperfect human beings who have made more positive
contributions than any I can see from Black. I'm sure Black has
his good points, too, but every time he opens his mouth to
launch a new jeremiad, he manages to hide them. For a more
rational and balanced view of ufology's successes and failures,
might I recommend Brenda Denzler's The Lure of the Edge
(University of California Press, 2001)?

If Black wants to be heard and taken seriously, he needs to
express views that are more thoughtful, sensible, nuanced,
and informed than the barstool-rant level of analysis we've
seen so far.


Jerry Clark






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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:49:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:44:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark


 >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 01:03:47 -0500 (EST)
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >So, where do we draw the line between friendship/loyalty and
 >good UFO invesigation/research?

 >It's admirable to stick up for your friends and I imagine it
 >certainly makes things easier when you haven't criticized or
 >debunked the people you must share a stage with on a lecture
 >circuit.

This is really insulting, and abysmally ignorant. To start with,
I haven't been on the "lecture circuit" ever. (The last time I
spoke at a MUFON conference was in 1988.) Second, when I have
disagreed with colleagues, I have said as much in print and on
this List, as anyone who has read my writings over the years is
aware, and that includes the people Black is citing. This only
underscores my point that the criticism coming from the Black/
Young/Stuart School of Drawing and Quartering is unfair and,
worse, uninformed. It also seems a tad hypocritical, since those
who accuse us of never faulting colleagues are falling all over
themselves to prove how absolutely they can agree with Black.

 >The lesser of two evils, I suppose, would be to simply offer "no
 >comment", but even that can sometimes imply approval. Do all of
 >you Budd Hopkins supporters actually believe the Linda Cortile
 >fiasco? Honestly?

Which fiasco? Hopkins's or his critics'? Have you read Greg
Sandow's independent investigation of the case? I would assume
not, but the IUR issues in question, Spring and Summer 1997, are
available from CUFOS. Sandow devastates the critics' case. That
doesn't, of course, make the case "true". It has not been
disproved, but it remains unproved. I hope you understand the
difference. I believe the latter is the more classically
skeptical position.

The Cortile case is one about which it is nearly impossible to
say anything, pro or con, with any degree of confidence, except
that, intuitively, it strikes nearly everybody as unbelievable
on all kinds of levels; at the same time, the road between that
intuitive conviction and empirical certainty has proved a long,
bumpy one. To date, no one has traveled the distance.

In the meantime, I am perfectly happy to place it in a gray
basket and let it lie there, in the confident expectation that -
  barring incontestable proof on one side or, on the other, hoax
confession and/or expose coupled with convincing explanation of
how it was pulled off - it is almost certain to stay there all
my lifetime. If I could not live with ambiguity, I would not be
a ufologist or a Fortean. I believe I can have a productive
career in this field knowing only that the Cortile case is
unproved and that therefore, for all practical purposes, it is
irrelevant to ufology's more immediate questions.

 >Credibility is lost when loyalty overshadows objectivity.

Well said. Now apply that principle to your loyalty to Black and
Young.


Jerry Clark







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                     Freeman Dyson Lecture Series at BNL

From: Address Removed By Request
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 12:34:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:50:52 -0400
Subject: Freeman Dyson Lecture Series at BNL



Freeman Dyson Lecture Series at Brookhaven National Laboratory -
  'Unfashionable Thoughts about Science and Technology'

Hi Errol,

Just thought I'd pass on this bit for listerines in the New
York/Long Island area. Check out the topics. With some educated
questions from the audience, this could be an interesting
series.


http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2002/bnlpr041502a.htm






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                     Eras News: Weekly Briefing 05.06.02

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 17:10:23 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:52:50 -0400
Subject: Eras News: Weekly Briefing 05.06.02



ERAS NEWS
The E-News Service of The Eras Project

http://www.geocities.com/erasproject

May 6, 2002

_____________________________


WEEKLY BRIEFING
5.6.02


EXOBIOLOGY
The Search for Extraterrestrial Life

Detecting Other Worlds VIII: Radio Detection
http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_doyle_020502.html


QUANTA
Science and Technology

NRC Study Urges Caution on Mars Trip
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&ncid=3D624&e=3D2&cid=3D624&u=
=3D/ap/20020501/ap_on_sc/visiting_mars_1

Cydonian Imperative: Martian Biohazard
http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

Mars Global Surveyor Aging Gracefully
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/mgsage01.html

A Cyclic Universe?
http://SkyandTelescope.com/news/current/article_592_1.asp

Fossilized Plant was First Flower?
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/05/03/first.flower.ap/index.html


EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena

120 Million Year Old Map Found in Russia?
http://www.therussianissues.com/topics/55/02/04/02/14403.html
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/30/28149.html


____________________________


Eras News is the e-news service of The Eras Project, providing
the latest news, reports and updates, including the Weekly
Briefing, sent free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe Eras News in the
subject line to: psa@look.ca


The Eras Project is a non-profit future studies project focusing
on the leading-edge news, events, ideas and discoveries that
will shape the future of humanity as we
enter the 21st Century and a new Era.

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/erasproject

=A9 The Eras Project, 2002





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                    Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Lavoie

From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@sprint.ca>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:12:11 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:55:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Lavoie


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:47:19 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >When he finally made these corrections, we seemed to agree within a
 >few percent on several test objects.

I believe Ed was using the latest test object results, the piece
with white stripe that you and I agreed on in terms of it's
length of about 21". The reason why I'm saying this is because
it was a hypotenuse piece, which Ed had had brought to my
attention. I believe that my preliminary results were in the
order of 18" or there about. Then when I corrected for
perspective differences I obtained a measurement close to 21".
This strut should have been 34" long. You indicated that the
reason we don't see the rest of it is because it was broken off
as a possible explanation.

 >>To do so, you'll have to measure the debris and show how it
 >>matches the known dimensions of a NYU Rawin.

 >I've done this and it's a very good match.

Dave, how can you measure all of the debris and say it's a very
good match when, as in the above strut example, 45% of the strut
is missing.

 >I don't know what his latest results are, but I doubt if they
 >depart significantly from my own. He did e-mail me about one
 >prominent stick in the foreground which he measured being a
 >millimeter or two wide over what he thought the specs were. But
 >I'm not going to reject this as a Rawin because of a mm or 2,
 >based on Charles Moore's radar target model dating to 1953.

Professor more, in his email to me, clearly indicated that he
felt that the 1947 struts were not as bulky as his 1953 model.
Therefore, there is still the possibility that the particular
piece in question is not rawin.

 >Totally false. I have measured these sticks, and with the
 >exception of maybe 2 or 3, they have dimensions completely
 >compatible with what is expected for that model Rawin. One stick
 >to the far right in the Ramey/Dubose smiling photo is clearly
 >too long, too thin, twisted, and of a different color than the
 >other sticks. It definitely isn't from a Rawin. I don't know
 >about the other 2.

I agree with you there are pieces of the debris which are not
Rawin. In fact there are quite a few pieces that are not
compatible with Rawin measurements. So what are these pieces
doing in the debris.

Andrew Lavoie






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                           The Jonathan Reed Hoax

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 11:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:58:42 -0400
Subject: The Jonathan Reed Hoax

I want to take a moment to say that thanks is due to the UFO
Watchdog who spent a lot of time delving into and ultimately
exposing the Jonathan Reed hoax. Most researchers accepted that
it was a hoax, but did not have the facts to prove it. Now it is
proven to the point where one of Reed's ardent supporters, Shawn
Atlanti, a member of MUFON, and a friend of mine has withdrawn
his support of the Reed case and is now convinced that this case
has been exposed.

It took him many years to withdraw from support of the Bill
Cooper case after I had told him that my findings were that
Cooper was a hoax.

However, I firmly believed in a couple of cases myself that
turned out to be hoaxes. Such are human foibles.

Now, instead of supporting a UFO case or story, I have a kind of
estimate of its probability and conduct interviews and
investigate as if the case was factual, but with the reservation
that it is an ongoing investigation, that it is being studied
and reviewed, and that no firm conclusions have been reached.
Some cases, in my opinion, are never completely resolved as
evidence is lacking to tip the scales one way or another. There
are also different categories of case.

We just have not yet reached a high state of standard
investigation and we are attempting to study a subject that
continues to baffle our best attempts to get that hard physical
evidence we would so like to have.

-Bill Hamilton







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                    Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:40:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 23:01:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Gehrman


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:47:19 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 17:02:25 -0700
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:12:19 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>As I've stated repeatedly, you and I agree on much about Roswell
 >>but you haven't done your homework on the FW debris photos.

 >Neither have you Ed.

I've spent many hours viewing the FW debris. Even though my
observations and measurements may not agree with your
measurements, I think we're at a point where we can discuss our
findings and arrive at some conclusions.

 >>The debris pictured there is not from a NYU Rawin and I challenge
 >>you to prove that it is.

 >And I challenge you to prove that it isn't. Just proclaiming
 >that it isn't a Rawin doesn't make it so. It is obvious from
 >your many false statements below about construction details that
 >you proclamations about it not being a Rawin are based largely
 >on ignorance.

We'll have to see about that.

 >>To do so, you'll have to measure the debris and show how it
 >>matches the known dimensions of a NYU Rawin.

 >I've done this and it's a very good match.

I don't see any match at all. Perhaps you could draw a map of
some kind so I could see which pieces you say are a match.

 >Incidentally, the only other person I know who is doing a
 >quantitative analysis besides myself is Andrew LaVoie. Perhaps
 >some of your statements are based on his preliminary results,
 >which didn't initially agree with my own.

 >Andrew and I thrashed out our measurement differences over the
 >phone and e-mail. He finally realized he had made a mistake in
 >his assumptions about the radiator dimensions, which threw his
 >scaling off. He also realized he wasn't properly taking
 >perspective into account, again throwing off his scaling. When
 >he finally made these corrections, we seemed to agree within a
 >few percent on several test objects.

Yes all that is true but one of the test objects was a tape-like
piece (I know its not tape but folded over material) that should
be a 34 inch hypotenuse. We can see both the beginning and end
of that particular piece and it measures only 21 inches. The
remainder of the tape-like hypotenuses in that photo are also
about that length. Could you point out one of these hypotenuse
section that you think measures 34 inches?

 >I don't know what his latest results are, but I doubt if they
 >depart significantly from my own. He did e-mail me about one
 >prominent stick in the foreground which he measured being a
 >millimeter or two wide over what he thought the specs were. But
 >I'm not going to reject this as a Rawin because of a mm or 2,
 >based on Charles Moore's radar target model dating to 1953. We
 >don't know what production model is shown in this photo or
 >exactly what the specs were from 1947 or before. Neither does
 >Moore for that matter.

We do have and idea of what the specs were. Have you viewed the
1944 ML307 assembly specs contained in the AA CD set? I'm a
little confused as to what you're talking about here. What are
you using for your dimensions?

 >>We know that a Rawin is constructed of nine triangles and these
 >>triangles are all 34 inches x 24 inches x24 inches.

 >Not exactly correct. 8 of the 9 triangles were paired and made
 >of one sheet. Hence there were 4 larger triangles of foil/paper,
 >each measuring about 34 x 34 x 48, and one remaining smaller one
 >measuring 34 x 24 x 24.

Yes I understand; I was simply making it easier for the List to
visualize. What is important is that there are nine hypotenuses
in a Rawin and all measure 34 inches. I don't find an hypotenuse
that measures 34 inches. Point out an example so we can check it
out.

 >I tried to describe this in detail some months back,

 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jan/m18-012.shtml

 >But apparently you didn't learn a thing from it.

I asked you to draw a map of what you saw and how you were
taking your measurements. Apparently you still haven't done so,
for I haven't seen it. It would make it so much easier, don't
you think?

 >>To prove your case, you need to find nine tape-like edges that
 >>measure 34 inches and are connected to interior members/struts
 >>that measure 24 inches.

 >No, completely untrue. There are still nine edges where the
 >foil/paper was wrapped around the exterior framework sticks, but
 >not all of them are "tape-like". About half of them were wrapped
 >foil side in, hence paper-side out. This formed a white strip
 >(the "tape-like" strip, but not made of tape). You would expect
 >either 4 or 5 of these, not 9. The remaining sticks (4 or 5) had
 >the paper-side in, or foil on the outside.

I don't know about this since the assembly specs I've read state
clearly that no joint is to be glued foil to foil. I'm not
familiar with the instructions that indicate that half were
wrapped foil side in.

 >You can easily make out 4 or maybe 5 of the expected white
 >strips in the photos and no others. Four of the 5 triangles can
 >also be clearly made out. The remainder of foil pieces are torn
 >up into smaller chunks, making clear discernment of a 5th
 >triangle difficult.

Maybe.

 >You also won't necessarily find sticks where you might expect
 >them or sheaths all of the correct length because (need I repeat
 >the obvious?) the target was _torn up_! The triangles aren't
 >completely whole, sticks slid out of their sheaths, and other
 >sticks were torn away from the foil/paper covering. Nonetheless,
 >I can clearly make out portions of 3 of the 24" interior struts
 >just where you would expect them in the centers of the
 >triangles, and several of the 34" exterior struts still within
 >their exterior sheaths.

I still don't see any 34 inch struts. And I don't see the 24
inch interior struts to which they're attached. Could you point
them out.

 >An obvious example of the latter is the most intact large
 >triangle being held by all the participants in all the photos.
 >Check out the Ramey/Dubose smiling photo, e.g., with the propped
 >up triangle leaning against Dubose. It has the white strip of
 >the correct length at the left of the triangle (though folded
 >because the stick has slipped out) and a stick of the correct
 >length on the right.

I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion. The stick may
have slipped out but that strip is not the correct length as far
as I can tell.

 >Three of the triangles lying on the ground have central sticks
 >in the middle of the foil/paper sticks where you would expect
 >them. At least two of these are broken.

I agree but what about the middle strut about half way down
Dubose's right leg. Have you noticed that? How does that fit in
to all this?

 >>You're not going to be able to do that because there aren't any
 >>in the photos.

 >You won't find _9_ "tape-like" white strips in photos, because
 >the ML-307 didn't have that many. They were made with 4 or 5.
 >Get your facts straight.

How about just finding one that we can all agree measures 34
inches. That could be a good start. I don't see one yet. Please
point it out

 >>You also will not find any supporting struts (balsa wood) that
 >>are the correct dimensions for a NYU Rawin.

 >Totally false. I have measured these sticks, and with the
 >exception of maybe 2 or 3, they have dimensions completely
 >compatible with what is expected for that model Rawin. One stick
 >to the far right in the Ramey/Dubose smiling photo is clearly
 >too long, too thin, twisted, and of a different color than the
 >other sticks. It definitely isn't from a Rawin. I don't know
 >about the other 2.

Please point out the ones you have measured so we can measure
them ourselves.

 >>Also on the NYU Rawin, the paper/foil material that folds over
 >>the struts should be folded paper to paper (as per specs) rather
 >>than foil to foil as seen in the FW photos.

 >As I have pointed out before, this statement is completely
 >false. Maybe you should study the actual engineering schematic
 >and some photos of constructed Rawins which show half the edges
 >to be folded foil-to-foil or foil-side-in, hence the white paper
 >strip on the outside.

All I have to work from are the Rawin models in the AA CD set
and the ML 307 engineering specs. I'd be happy to look at
whatever you have so we can start with common assumptions.

 >>If the debris was from a UNU Rawin, you wouldn't find these anomalies.
 >
 >99% of these so-called "anomalies" are strictly in your
 >imagination Ed. 1% "anomaly" (like the weird stick) does not
 >make the other 99% not come from a Rawin. Get a grip.

I still insist that there are many more anomalies than "one
weird stick" but first we need to find one 34 inch hypotenuse on
which we can all agree. The only sure hypotenuse I've found
measures 21 inches, and that's not a measurement you'll find
anywhere on a NYU Rawin.


Ed






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               Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:55:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 04:55:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Fleming


 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 18:34:42 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >Also, as per the remarks of Lan Fleming regarding motives, I
 >would kindly offer that the exploration of 'motives' of both the
 >claimant and promoter of UFO related information is a legitimate
 >subject of inquiry. Any investigator taking information should
 >recognize this and the question of intent or motivation is and
 >_should_ always be a key, paramount investigative concern. It is
 >neither mud-slinging nor 'self destructive' attacks to undertake
 >such concern. This was, indeed, a puzzling message from Mr.
 >Fleming and simply goes to show the extent to which Gulf
 >Breezers deflect away from the main data points in attempt to
 >assail the individual.

I have never heard of any real scholarly or scientific
discipline in which researchers attacked the motives of other
researchers in their field, either in journal papers or in the
news media. It's just not the "done" thing, as the British put
it. If Mr. Black's "motive" in trashing other researchers in the
press was to convince readers that "UfOlogy" isn't a serious
scholarly or scientific field of study, then he did a good job.

I'm surprised to see myself labeled as a "Gulf Breezer." That's
a new one on me. Is this the name people are liable to be called
by those inclined to name-calling for pointing out inconvenient
facts such as the evidence that the UFO model was planted by
somebody in Walters' house after he moved out? I hate to think
what names I'd be called for mentioning that the methods for
faking photographs that debunker star-witness Tommy Smith
accused Walters of using appear to be impossible. So I won't
mention it. :)







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                   Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 20:00:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 05:15:30 -0400
Subject: Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Fleming


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:55:46 +0000
 >Subject: Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls?

 >>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 10:02:06 -0500
 >>Subject: NSF Article & UFO Polls?

 >>Question To Stan Friedman On The National Science Foundation
 >>Article & UFO Polls

 ><snip>

 >>I suspect that the results of a poll with questions such as this
 >>would be of considerable interest to UFO researchers, assuming a
 >>polling organization could be persuaded to conduct one.

 >FYI, polling organizations often collect questions for a while,
 >then poll a sample population on a whole range of issues.

 >To get questions as proposed by Mr. Fleming in to one of these
 >bundled polls, a few years ago a price quoted me was $600 US per
 >question, so it's mainly a matter of coming up with the price.


Wow. I didn't realize I was suggesting several thousand dollars
worth of questions on the subject of UFOs. It's a little out of
my price range. I still think it could be worth pursuing,
though.







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                   Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 20:13:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 10:06:07 -0400
Subject: Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Fleming


 >From: Stantanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:53:06 -0300
 >Subject: Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls?

 >Two polls were conducted by Industrial Research and Development
 >Magazine at my request with backing from a CUFOS member whose
 >name escapes me.

 >In the 1979 response to the question "Do you believe that UFOs
 >Exist?" 27% said Definitely, 34% said Probably,12% were
 >Undecided,20% said probably not, 8% said Definitely not.

 >In response to the question "if you consider the possibility of
 >UFO existence, where do you think they originate? 2% said USA,
 >less than 1% said communist nations, 44% said outer-space, 28%
 >said natural phenomena and 26% were undecided. Of the poll
 >respondents, 23% had a PhD, 25% had an MS and 40% a BS.

 >Several other polls are cited in my article.

Thanks for your response, Stan. While these results are
interesting, it seems that they all are from surveys done more
than 20 years ago. I'd be curious to see what the current state
of public opinion is, given twenty more years of UFO research
and twenty more years of periodic attacks on UFO research by the
government and the news media.

You probably are aware of the Sturrock survey of the opinions of
professional astronomers on the subject. He found a large
percentage of astronomers believed UFOs were a serious subject
and a surprisingly large numbers who admitted actually having
observed them. But that was in the 1970's, too. I wonder if the
government "education" campaigns since then have educated most
astronomers that they shouldn't express such opinions.







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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 23:03:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 10:10:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:10:09 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark

 >Unfortunately, by his careless hurling of irresponsible charges
 >against individuals, Black is only adding more "troubles and
 >drivel" to the UFO field.

Jerry;

I will cede this point to you if you can furnish me with one
sober example of this "careless hurling of irresponsible
charges" item. And if you are unable to offer a sober example,
perhaps you might concede to a few 'careless hurling of
irresponsible charges' of your own.

 >If Black wants to be heard and taken seriously, he needs to
 >express views that are more thoughtful, sensible, nuanced,
 >and informed than the barstool-rant level of analysis we've
 >seen so far.

Well rest assured that Black is taken seriously as long as he
tells it like it is. The objective and open-minded can be
trusted to draw their own personal conclusion. The agenda-driven
end up elsewhere. Further, with regard to your instructions on
how to express views, I would consider any views exposing a hoax
to be thoughtful. I would consider any effort to look at a claim
objectively sensible. I might consider any quest to expose a lie
and reveal the truth to be "nuanced and informed." Some quip
like a "barstool-ranting" is better left to the mud-slinging
crowd.


Kenny Young







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              Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 23:30:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 10:16:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee


 >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:15:03 -0500 (EST)
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

<snip>

 >Furthermore, Bruce M., I am not trying to get on your bad-side,
 >but Jerry and Kenny are not the only ones who think the Gulf
 >Breeze case (at least the Ed Walter's portion of it) is full of
 >more holes than a case of Swiss cheese. Your proclamation that
 >Jerry Black is simply wrong about that case does not make it so
 >and there are many others who are bewildered and disappointed by
 >your continued support of Ed Walters.

And Jerry Black's proclamation of "hoax" (I not sure exactly
what part of the Gulf Breeze "phenomenon", other than Ed's
portion is included) does not make it a hoax.

Each side of this argument can mount complex arguments as to why
and why not some particular portion is true or not true. Whole
research articles could be - have been - written on details of
this photo or that. The average reader, not being an expert on
the details, is likely to be left with a questionmark that is
often "answered" by who yells the loudest rather than by
accuracy and completeness of the logical arguments. Anyone who
is really interested can read previous discussions and/or
contact me directly to save Errol's bandwidth.

Of course I know that there are many people who think Ed's
sightings are a hoax. And, to some extent, I understand why.
After all, my first impression was "another Meier". (Oooopppss,
Meier discussion coming up? I hope not.)

They also try to pass off the numerous other sightings as a sort
of "hysterical contagion" or "mass delusion" or simply "getting
in on the act" (to get their names in the paper, etc.). There is
no doubt that without other sightings Ed's case wouldn't be as
strong. In fact, if there hadn't been other sightings the
investigation probably would have ended in December, 1987,
before Ed went public. Instead, the investigation ran
continually starting in November 1987 and it concentrated on
Ed's activities in the spring of 1988.

Example of another sighting:

Dr. Fenner McConnell, pathologist and county coronor back in
1988, did not think Ed was a fake. McConnell publicly and
repeatedly said he saw on object hovering over the water near
his house one early morning in July. That object looked exactly
like the "object" that appears in Ed's photos taken between Nov.
11, 1987 and May 1, 1988 (including stereo photos). Dr. Connell
did not have himself committed to psychiatric examination for
being delusional, probably because he alerted his wife to the
object and she saw it too. (She appeared on documentaries about
Gulf Breeze and was quoted in newspaper articles.)

I could go on with other witnesses, but I won't take up the
bandwidth. All this has been argued before.

Point: If you take Ed out of the Gulf Breeze "picture" you still
have a major flap between Nov. 1987 and July 1988 with over a
hundred witnesses to dozens of sightings (many multiple
witness). Many of these witnesses claimed to have seen the
object Ed photographed, others saw just strange light structures
which could have been the same thing. (On the first day, Nov.
11, 1987, there were several sightings before Ed's sighting and
photos at about 6 PM. The first sighting actually occurred about
2:30 AM, early on the morning of Nov. 11.)

You can read about the other sightings, as well as the analysis
of Ed's sghtings, in my research paper published by MUFON
(Symposium , 1988) and the updated version which has been sold
by the Fund.

This research was essentially completed in July, 1987. I also
published a second MUFON Symposium paper (published in the Symp
proceedings in 1990) entitled 'Gulf Breeze Without Ed' which
contains a catalogue of the other sightings in 1988, 1989 and
part of 1990

THe other sightings are also briefly mentioned in Ed's books and
in 'UFOs Are Real, Here's the Proof' (Avon, 1997).

After the initial flurry of sightings in 1987-88, there was a
"low period" for a couple of years, and then in 1990 things
began again (mostly near the end of the year).

A multiple witness sighting involving Ed and half a dozen other
witnesses occurred in January, 1990. Here was a case where Ed
called independent witness who came., saw... and photographed
... a UFO. Was this a hoax? I invite interested readers to visit
http://brumac.8k.com and read Not Just Another Evening Stroll,
the story of the January 8, 1990 sighting.

THen, of course, there are the numerous "bubba" sightings which
have been "explained " in a hand waving manner as "gas bag
balloons with flares." Because Ed was a witness to _some_ of
these, there was the suspicion that he was responsible.

There were about 170 sightings between Nov. 1990 and July 1992.
I was a witness to one of these... and it wasn't a gas bag
balloon plus flare. (It was a ring of lights.) These are
discussed in UFOs Are Real... and at the above web site.
(including the sighting, in which a diffraction grating was used
which provided proof that the light source was not a flare).

 >There, I probably don't have many friends left on this List now,
 >but every once in awhile I like to "tell it like it is" also.

Yeah, let's kick some butt and tell it like it is. However,
before kicking we better be sure we know for certain what "it
is."







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   May > May 7

                 John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:10:58 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 10:23:05 -0400
Subject: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast


In 1952 John Keel served with the U. S. military and was
stationed in Frankfurt, Germany. He was assigned to the Armed
Forces Radio Service. There, he wrote and produced various
programs to be broadcast to the members of the United States
Armed Forces throughout Europe.

One of the programs he wrote and produced in 1952 was a 15
minute program entitled, 'Things From The Sky'. It was an early
overview of the flying saucer phenomenon dramatized for the
Armed Forces Radio Service listeners.

On November 16, 1968, while he was organizing his personal
effects, Keel discovered the original acetate recording of his
program. Early acetate recordings tended to deteriorate over
time, much like the old acetate films of early Hollywood.
Finding the recording brought back many memories of some 16
years earlier for Mr. Keel.

Using a portable tape recorder, Keel recorded his memories of
his program, 'Things From The Sky'. Along with his memories he
recorded his program from the original acetate recording onto
the same tape.

That recording and a personal note regarding the contents has
sat in a box since 1968. This recording was included in the
donation of the Richard T. Lee Collection, via William Jones of
Ohio MUFON, to my archive. It is a fabulous historical
discovery.

'Things From The Sky' was, for it's time, a fairly well-balanced
look at the flying saucer phenomena being observed during the
early years of Crypto-Aeronautics. The program is 15 minutes in
length and covers Project Saucer, Charles Fort, Kenneth Arnold,
Farmington, NM sightings, Lubbock Lights, etc. But more
importantly, it relates the Roswell incident and the recovery of
a flying disc and bodies. Perhaps one of the earliest mentions
of the Roswell incident since the brief newscasts of 1947.

When John (called Johnny in the program credits) Keel discovered
the acetate recording, it was still in fair shape. The recording
from the tape has been enhanced and the sound quality is now
fairly good. This recording has been placed on CD for
preservation purposes and runs 19:02.






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                    Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 01:27:01 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 12:51:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak


 >From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@sprint.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics
 >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:12:11 -0300

 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:47:19 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>When he finally made these corrections, we seemed to agree within a
 >>few percent on several test objects.

 >I believe Ed was using the latest test object results, the piece
 >with white stripe that you and I agreed on in terms of it's
 >length of about 21". The reason why I'm saying this is because
 >it was a hypotenuse piece, which Ed had had brought to my
 >attention. I believe that my preliminary results were in the
 >order of 18" or there about. Then when I corrected for
 >perspective differences I obtained a measurement close to 21".
 >This strut should have been 34" long. You indicated that the
 >reason we don't see the rest of it is because it was broken off
 >as a possible explanation.

The target is obviously torn and broken up. I fail to understand
why your group is treating this as if it were completely intact.

Because it is torn up, one expects pieces to be smaller than
expected. What would be anomalous is if pieces were signficantly
larger than expected.

How easy would it be to tear the foil/paper reflector material?
Get a Hershey bar and unwrap it. What do you see? White
foil/paper. Hershey has been wrapping their candy bars with it
since around 1915 or maybe 1920. Its basically the same stuff
that the radar targets are made from and very easy to tear.

The foil triangle this white strip is a part of is obviously
torn along the edge adjacent to the white strip, so why should I
be surprised that the white strip is also torn and shorter than
it would be if the target was intact?

 >>>To do so, you'll have to measure the debris and show how it
 >>>matches the known dimensions of a NYU Rawin.

 >>I've done this and it's a very good match.

 >Dave, how can you measure all of the debris and say it's a very
 >good match when, as in the above strut example, 45% of the strut
 >is missing.

You are making a mountain out of a molehill. You are arguing
that if you break a yardstick and can only find a 21" segment of
it, then it doesn't come from a yardstick. The logic is totally
screwed up.

I can argue that its a good match because what can be seen
matches what would be expected once you know the construction
details of the rawin. It's made of four larger foil/paper
triangles and one smaller, and you expect a white paper strip
along one edge (or maybe two). That's what you see in the
photos.

If you want an example of a complete 34" stick and 34" white
stripe, take a look at the most intact triangle in the photos,
such as the one leaning up against Dubose's knee. The stick on
the right is 34" and the paper strip is also very close to 34".
(But because it lacks a stick inside and isn't rigid, it's hard
to get an exact length.)

Another 34" stick lies under the edge of the balloon, partially
covered up. You can see it's left end peeking out to the left of
the balloon and its right end on the right side of the balloon.
The left end also juts up against one of the expected center
pieces which slants down to the right.

The triangle with the 21" strip has an obvious centers stick,
though it is broken. The two broken pieces add up to close to
the expected 24".

The triangle below that has two white strips. The more
horizontal one is torn, but its torn mate may extend off to the
right, along with a possible matching piece of foil/paper. The
more vertical white strip goes off the photo and can't be
measured accurately. In the center of this torn triangle is
another broken center piece right where you would expect it,
dead center between the two white strips. You can see the end
poking out at the bottom and the outline of the stick under the
foil.

A well exposed stick with a mottled appearance lies a little to
the right of the center stick made up of two broken pieces. It's
length is shy of the expected 24" for a center piece, but it is
also broken. You can find a matching short segment higher up in
the picture, a little below the largely intact foil triangle.
Put the two together and it adds up to 24".

Get the picture? The expected foil triangles are there with
their white paper strips. Things are torn up, but pieces often
match up. They also often lie in the correct positions within
the triangles, even if they are broken. Some of the sticks are
intact and are of the correct length, like the two 34" sticks I
mentioned above.

 >>I don't know what his latest results are, but I doubt if they
 >>depart significantly from my own. He did e-mail me about one
 >>prominent stick in the foreground which he measured being a
 >>millimeter or two wide over what he thought the specs were. But
 >>I'm not going to reject this as a Rawin because of a mm or 2,
 >>based on Charles Moore's radar target model dating to 1953.

 >Professor more, in his email to me, clearly indicated that he
 >felt that the 1947 struts were not as bulky as his 1953 model.
 >Therefore, there is still the possibility that the particular
 >piece in question is not rawin.

The piece you are referring to was _slightly_ wider than the
expected 10 mm width given by Moore. It might have been 11 or 12
mm. Such small differences do not disqualify it as Rawin
material. I'm only concerned about significant differences. If
it were double the thickness or too long, then I would question
its origin. But I'm not going to sweat 10 or 20%, especially
since we don't know the exact specs and tolerances from this
period.

What it looks like is part of the main 4 foot stick running down
through the center of the target, and would logically be the
sturdiest piece. It appears to be still partially attached to
the foil/paper sheet to its left. If you rotated it clockwise,
its lower left end I suspect would match up with broken fragment
running down the center of the lower left triangle. Also the
torn foil/paper sheet with its white strip appears to be a match
to the torn piece of the lower left triangular sheet and white
strip.

I can make out about 31" of this piece, but it's lower left end
goes out of the photo. Add this to the about 14" broken piece in
the center of the left, lower triangle and it adds to 45+",
close to the expected 48-49". The sticks are a possible match
along with the attached foil sheets and white strips. Where's
the big anomaly here?

 >>Totally false. I have measured these sticks, and with the
 >>exception of maybe 2 or 3, they have dimensions completely
 >>compatible with what is expected for that model Rawin. One stick
 >>to the far right in the Ramey/Dubose smiling photo is clearly
 >>too long, too thin, twisted, and of a different color than the
 >>other sticks. It definitely isn't from a Rawin. I don't know
 >>about the other 2.
 >
 >I agree with you there are pieces of the debris which are not
 >Rawin. In fact there are quite a few pieces that are not
 >compatible with Rawin measurements. So what are these pieces
 >doing in the debris.

The one to the far right of the Ramey/Dubose smiling picture is
clearly much too thin and much too long. That's what I mean by
significant difference from what is expected, especially the
length. The pieces of broken up things get smaller, not bigger.

So this piece isn't from a Rawin, which also means it isn't from
a Mogul either. However, that doesn't mean the material is
anomalous and from a flying saucer. I found a wooden stick just
like it in my back yard and don't know how that got there
either. Maybe it was used at one time to prop up a garden plant.

We can only speculate what that particular stick is doing there.
It looks to me like maybe they threw in a little extra junk into
the the mix, maybe even a stick or two from a kid's kite.


David Rudiak





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               Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 2:32:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 12:56:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Aldrich


 >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:30:02 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book

 >>From: Jean van Gemert <j.vangemert@chello.nl>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 21:24:53 +0200
 >>Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book

 >>>Source: The Observer (UK), May 5, 2002 - UK news

 >>>http://observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,710181,00.html

 >><snip>

 >>As for the decrease in radar reports, that straw man has been
 >>discussed before on the list. With no contemporary "BlueBook"
 >>system to channel reports to the public/researchers (after all,
 >>that *is* where most of the radar cases came from), there's no
 >>real way to tell how many UFOs show up on military radar these
 >>days. I doubt that Clarke is privy to such intelligence
 >>information.

 >Who says there is "no way to tell how many UFOs show up on
 >military radar these days." There may be no Blue Book but
 >reports investigated by the British MoD are available at the
 >Public Record Office and via the fledgling FOIA in the UK.

 >The lack of _good_quality_ radar reports in recent years can be
 >demonstrated by anyone who cares to put in the legwork in the
 >archives, and by interviewing those whose job it was to
 >investigate unusual radar tracks, as we did during the writing
 >of 'Out of the Shadows.'

 >Only recently, I was discussing this precise question with Air
 >Vice Marshal Alan White, who was Director of Operations (Air
 >Defence and Overseas), MOD, 1977-79 and Senior Air Staff Officer
 >at HQ No 11 Group 1979-1981. I asked him about UFOs tracked by
 >radar:

 >"In my time, the Ground Environment element of the Directorate
 >of Operations, was the piece of the MOD that dealt with all
 >reported sighting of an enquiries by the public about UFOs.
 >Ground Environment is the grand title that covered everything to
 >do with air defence radars.

 >"The logic behind this was that if anyone was going to verify
 >anything in the sky it was the people who peered at what was
 >going on via very powerful radars kept an account of all
 >planned civil and military flights in the UK Flight Information
 >Region and in the Air Defence Area, controlled the interception
 >of any unplanned ones, and recorded everything by photographing
 >the radar screens at frequent and regular intervals 24 hours a
 >day.

 >"Not once, during my time in the Directorate, was anything
 >recorded on radar to coincide with, or explain, any of the
 >sightings reported to us. There was plenty of scrambles (350 a
 >year from Leuchars when I was Station Commander) to identify and
 >shadow Russian aircraft, but I did not know of, nor had I heard
 >of, any scrambles in pursut of strange phenomena."

 >Hardly a "straw man" - if anyone should know, AVM White would.
 >OK maybe the good quality cases were being hidden from him, but
 >that is not an argument that stands up to scrutiny.

 >I should point out, with regard to the Observer article, that
 >our book does not conclude that UFOs are 'all in the mind'. Yes
 >we believe there is a social phenomenon that is ripe for study
 >by social scientists, but there is also an objective phenomena
 >too. What that may be I don't know, but that is beyond the remit
 >of the book which was written as a history of British Government
 >investigations and their context in Cold War history. You can
 >agree or disagree with the British MOD's approach to the subject
 >(and I have done, vehemently, during the course of my research),
 >but as a historian you document what the documentary and oral
 >evidence suggests happened at the time.

 >Two of the detailed reports from RAF aircrew described in the
 >book (those by Farnborough test pilots in 1950, and the report
 >by the crew of a Meteor during 'Exercise Mainbrace'), are
 >inexplicable as far as I'm concerned. The latter had a radar
 >aspect to the report. My point is that such high quality
 >radar/visuals are few and far between, and are largely
 >concentrated during the 1950s. Research into the MOD archives,
 >1962-1972 brought less than a handful of radar cases to light,
 >none of which featured a visual component. That cannot simply be
 >a 'blip'!


I am going to differ here, especially concerning the US side.

Right up to the closure of Project Blue Book, well past the
1950s there were high quality radar sightings. At least one is
purposefully obfuscated and explained as a high speed, long
lasting, large "plasma ball". Such an explanation is either a
scientific discovery of the first rank or utter nonesense.

I vote for the latter.

A panel of atmospheric physicists convened by the Condon
Committee also voted the latter. Didn't keep the USAF from
trying to use the explanation again.

The radar photographs available in the Project Blue Book files
on this particular case represent only those that have little
information and do not show the UFO manuevers and high speed.

Concerning official pronouncement, we have always found, in the
US, that if an official says there are no more official files
available, they are most certainly incorrect, misinformed, or
unfortunately, lying.

Radar cases in Project Blue Book are many times poorly
investigated.

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135






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   May > May 7

              Location Map & Count For Northern B.C. Sightings

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 23:04:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 13:01:08 -0400
Subject: Location Map & Count For Northern B.C. Sightings


Hi List,

I thought some of you might find this of interest.....

I put together a quick map to show most of the sightings which
have taken place here, in Northern British Columbia. I've marked
each of the towns with a small red square which indicated where
the sightings took place. At the bottom I named the town with
the number of reported sightings I've received.

Now I think I am off somewhere, still looking up a few more. But
it gives an idea where and how many there were.

Also, after a little while I should have a break down for each
of the communities that will show what some folks have said in
the past about what is it that attracts these objects. I am
finding it of interest. But will get that later, still looking
up the goodies.

Anyway, here is the URL for the British Columbia map showing the
locations of the sightings, and the count.

http://www.geocities.com/ufologia_canadiana/BCMAP00.html


Never bored,

Brian







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              Re: 'UFO Discussion Sites Invade Online World' -

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:29:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 13:09:25 -0400
Subject: Re: 'UFO Discussion Sites Invade Online World' -


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:58:24 +0200
 >Subject: 'UFO Discussion Sites Invade Online World'

 >Source: Chicago Tribune, May 6, 2002.
 >You have to register to visit the page.

 >Stig

 >***

 >UFO discussion sites invade online world
 >Enthusiasts cover all points of view

 >By Dave Peyton

 >Tribune Media Services
 >Published May 6, 2002

 >Are UFOs real? They are on the Web.

Morning All

If you ask me, the reporter in question has shown that he spent
a quick half hour surfin' for UFOs. Let's face it, he hasn't
come up with any of the sites that are "high hitters" has he?

Yours on a boring, and very wet Tuesday Morning.

Sean

--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                 Re: BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:32:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 13:40:46 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book - Jones


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 16:17:15 +0200
 >Subject: BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book

 >Source: 'alt.alien.visitors', May 6, 2002.

 >Stig

 >From: David Patrick <spsptrck@reading.ac.uk>
 >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.alien.research,alt.paranet.ufo,sci.skeptic
 >Subject: UFOs and the British military  was Re: UFOs and the National State
 >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:47:32 +0100
 >Organization: University of Reading

Morning All

Can anyone tell me why debunkers get so much attention?

When a _good_ UFO book comes out pointing to good evidence, or
good testimony, etc etc. it gets ignored, just about any
debunker gets air time the moment they get a book out.

One wonders if there is a conspiracy?

Yours on a wet Tuesday.


Sean

--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                       Re: International UFO Petition

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 06:02:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 13:50:19 -0400
Subject: Re: International UFO Petition


I'd like to point out that the International Petition To The
United Nations For UFO Information Disclosure is a campaign to
acknowledge the existence of UFOs and the true nature of their
activities on this planet. And UFO disclosure is by far the most
important indicator of whether we still live in a free society,
or, whether the phrase 'Free Society' is now just a very old,
sick joke.

UFO researchers and activists are now in the league of freedom
fighters, Raoul Wallenberg being a shining example, even though
comments on this List don't indicate this is understood.

Such crucial responsibility should not be taken lightly nor
should it be the target of ridicule.

Eleanor White







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                    Re: The Jonathan Reed Hoax - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 06:12:42 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 13:59:12 -0400
Subject: Re: The Jonathan Reed Hoax - Gevaerd


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 11:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: The Jonathan Reed Hoax

 >I want to take a moment to say that thanks is due to the UFO
 >Watchdog who spent a lot of time delving into and ultimately
 >exposing the Jonathan Reed hoax. Most researchers accepted that
 >it was a hoax, but did not have the facts to prove it. Now it is
 >proven to the point where one of Reed's ardent supporters, Shawn
 >Atlanti, a member of MUFON, and a friend of mine has withdrawn
 >his support of the Reed case and is now convinced that this case
 >has been exposed.

 >It took him many years to withdraw from support of the Bill
 >Cooper case after I had told him that my findings were that
 >Cooper was a hoax.

 >However, I firmly believed in a couple of cases myself that
 >turned out to be hoaxes. Such are human foibles.

 >Now, instead of supporting a UFO case or story, I have a kind of
 >estimate of its probability and conduct interviews and
 >investigate as if the case was factual, but with the reservation
 >that it is an ongoing investigation, that it is being studied
 >and reviewed, and that no firm conclusions have been reached.
 >Some cases, in my opinion, are never completely resolved as
 >evidence is lacking to tip the scales one way or another. There
 >are also different categories of case.

 >We just have not yet reached a high state of standard
 >investigation and we are attempting to study a subject that
 >continues to baffle our best attempts to get that hard physical
 >evidence we would so like to have.


Dear Bill.

I appreciate your message and your position towards this
sensitive issue. I believe that UFO researchers should have
their activities in investigating the phenomena and all set of
its variations, but they should also be ready and prepared to
expose hoaxes and hoaxers as part of such activities. In any
other area maybe this would be a task to be performed by the
press, any authorities or even police forces, but in Ufology I
believe it is almost entirely up to us, UFO researchers, to do
that. Almost no one cares about it but us.

Here in Brazil many researchers have divided their time between
UFO investigations and exposing hoaxes and perpetrators. I for
example have been engaged in a 7-year fight with a man who
claims he is from other planet and designed to come to Earth to
select people to be saved from Armaggedon, if they pay for it!
He claims that he heals AIDS and cancer, as well as he can bring
dead people back. He claims he can communicate with ETs at
anytime and that they can be attracted to any site where he
maight be. By making such ridiculous claims, never proven, he is
tattracts people - thousands of them. And all he wants,
actually, is to attract these people's money. He is now a very rich
man, after fooling at least 70,000 people.

Because of my persistent activity as a responsible researcher,
who has been seriously engaged in exposing such a fraud, my
life has been threatened several times and, for a period of two
years, I had to change itineraries while going to work or coming
back home at night. As I kept my position and continued
exposing the fraud, exposing how it is perpetrated and
de-mystifing the whole thing, my life has been even in greater
danger. Instead of changing my position, however, with solid
support from the Brazilian media I've kept doing exactly what I do.
It had costed me a lot of lights without sleep, a lot of trouble
and even severe financial losses. But I believe that I am doing
the rigfht thing, so I will go on.

Hoaxes are a cancer in Ufology. They bring ridicule and
discredit to all of us, serious researchers who devote our lives
to this field. Ufology could be at least 2 decades more
developed now if it wasn=B4t for so many hoaxes spread in its
short existence as a field of research. Some military,
government and religious obscure powers are the only ones to
benefit from hoaxes, besides the perpetrators themselves. The
UFO community, science and society lose a lot bceause of them.
This is why I believe that hoaxers must be tirelessly exposed.
Doesn=B4t matter what the cost is.


A. J. Gevaerd
Editor
Brazilian UFO Magazine






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   May > May 7

                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:39:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:05:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark


 >Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 23:03:32 -0700
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology


 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:10:09 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark


Kenny,

 >>Unfortunately, by his careless hurling of irresponsible charges
 >>against individuals, Black is only adding more "troubles and
 >>drivel" to the UFO field.

 >I will cede this point to you if you can furnish me with one
 >sober example of this "careless hurling of irresponsible
 >charges" item. And if you are unable to offer a sober example,
 >perhaps you might concede to a few 'careless hurling of
 >irresponsible charges' of your own.

Uh, might I suggest that you read my earlier posts in this
thread?

 >>If Black wants to be heard and taken seriously, he needs to
 >>express views that are more thoughtful, sensible, nuanced,
 >>and informed than the barstool-rant level of analysis we've
 >>seen so far.

 >Well rest assured that Black is taken seriously as long as he
 >tells it like it is.

Correction, already made by somebody else but worth repeating:

Black is telling it like he _thinks_ it is.

As I and others have pointed out, there are serious problems
with what he thinks. His analysis looks more self-serving - in
other words, more like self-righteous posturing - than useful,
or pointed. It is also unpleasantly and needlessly personality -
rather than issue - oriented. It is based, as well, on the
misguided premise that ufology's problems are the responsibility
of a few wicked people. Beyond failing to validate that premise,
Black can't even mount a persuasive argument for their
wickedness.

 >Further, with regard to your instructions on
 >how to express views, I would consider any views exposing a hoax
 >to be thoughtful. I would consider any effort to look at a claim
 >objectively sensible. I might consider any quest to expose a lie
 >and reveal the truth to be "nuanced and informed." Some quip
 >like a "barstool-ranting" is better left to the mud-slinging
 >crowd.

Then let's hope Black does better next time. Get off that
(metaphorical) bar stool and contribute something less
(metaphorically) inebriated. Meantime, let's move on to more
important matters.


Jerry Clark







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   May > May 7

                           July BUFOSC Conference

From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 16:03:53 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:10:39 -0400
Subject: July BUFOSC Conference


The British UFO Studies Centre presents;

UFO Mysteries - A Conference featuring Philip Mantle,
Tim Matthews, Eric Morris and guests.

Waterloo Community Centre, Waterloo Rd, Runcorn, Cheshire.

Saturday 13th July 2002 from 11am-5pm.

Tickets just =A35, all proceeds to Cat's Protection League.

New and exclusive UFO video footage to be shown - introduced by
Phil Mantle in his talk entitled 'Earthlights Revelation'. This
footage was filmed in the Australian outback recently and is
remarkable, to say the least. We have around 45 minutes of this
'Spooklights' footage at the moment.

(This is highly relevant to British researchers of UFOs and
the Paranormal, especially given the earthlights sightings
around Bonsall Moor, the Longdendale Valley and on the
Lancashire-Yorkshire border.)

Tim Matthews will be talking about "animal mutilations" and the
US government's involvement in this unfolding scandal. Some
researchers have said, "First they made flying discs and now
they're mutilating animals". Could this be true, and why?

Tim's talk includes videos, slides and overhead projection.

Eric Morris is Britain's leading expert on close encounters. A
highly qualified nurse with a great deal of practical experience
in the mental health field, Eric is eminently qualified to talk
about some of his best cases, including the A5 Mystery.
Supported by slides and video footage.

We hope to be able to show the latest crop circle footage and
photos. A speaker is currently being lined up.

As you can see, this event is _not_ to be missed. Our recent,
second mini-Conference, in April, was very successful and many
punters said it was the best event they'd attended in years. The
friendly and welcoming atmosphere adds to the occasion and we
invite you all to attend this July event.

There is plenty of local parking and the venue is situated just
three minutes from Runcorn railway station. Quality catering,
including sandwiches, snacks and drinks are available all day at
low prices.

For further information please ring (07753) 744978, (01606)
330567 or e-mail, bufosc@hotmail.com or bufosc@mviva.com









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   May > May 7

                        Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:17:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:12:57 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!


 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:12:13 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!

 >>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!
 >>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:39:39 -0700

 >>For Immediate Release

 >>***JONATHAN REED EXPOSED!***
 >>UFOWATCHDOG.COM Exclusive Story

 >>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/exposed10.html

 ><snip>

 >>Those directly involved in investigating 'Jonathan Reed', those
 >>actually having the nerve to call themselves investigators and
 >>researchers, are a prime example of what is wrong with the UFO
 >>field and why the subject is often ridiculed. For those so-
 >>called researchers and investigators that reported their
 >>findings to the public in support of 'Jonathan Reed' - there is
 >>simply no excuse for poor, sloppy and incompetent investigative
 >>work, whether by design or not.

 >>During the scope of its investigation, UFOWATCHDOG.COM has
 >>uncovered the true identity of "Dr. Jonathan Reed." For those
 >>asserting to have verified that the person claiming to be 'Dr.
 >>Jonathan Reed' was indeed that person, you will have much to
 >>answer for...

 >Hmmm, I wish I could convince a couple of friends of that. They
 >tell me these fraud charges are not factual. One told me that
 >the alien armband device was housed in a security container that
 >cost thousands of $$! If true, whoever is behind this fraud is
 >pouring big bucks into it.


Hi Royce, Bill, All,

Bill is correct, nobody is right _all_ of the time. But Royce is
to be commended for a job well done on this one. Everybody is
always ragging on ufology and ufologists, but you would be hard
put to find another community of individuals that share an
interest in the same subject that polices itself and weeds out
the hucksters as effectively and consistently as we do among
ourselves. Some call that, "Ufologists eating their own young."
I call it, 'a healthy practice' and one that helps to keep
things honest and above board. I'm all for that.

Excellent job Royce. Thank you!:)


John Velez







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             Re: Pascagoula Audio File (Hickson/Parker) - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:18:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:14:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Pascagoula Audio File (Hickson/Parker) - Velez


 >From: Wendy Connors <projectsign@worldnet.att.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Pascagoula Audio File (Hickson/Parker)
 >Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:43:31 -0600

 >Errol and Listers:

 >The historic audio clip of the Hickman/Parker interview by the
 >Pascagoula Sheriff's Department after their abduction
 >experience has graciously been hosted on Steven Kaeser's audio
 >clip page.  Anyone who would like to listen to this clip may
 >download it at:

 >http://www.konsulting.com/audio_clips.htm.

 >This file has been compressed with MPEG-3 technology and is 5.4
 >MB in size. Be sure to adjust your sound level, bass and treble
 >for your listening levels. A reminder that the recording is
 >substandard and Steven will be attempting to enhance it more
 >when he has time.

 >Those who are unable to download this file because of its size
 >may obtain a copy on CD from Wendy Connors for $10. If you would
 >like to donate a few dollars toward the efforts of preserving
 >these recordings, it would be greatly appreciated. Wendy may be
 >contacted at:

 >Wendy Connors
 >P.O. Box 8552
 >Albuquerque, NM 87198

 >If anyone has any problems, please let Steven know. Of course,
 >if everyone teams up and decides to download at the same time,
 >Steven's system will probably have a spaz attack. <g>

 >If someone wishes to link to Steven's page, or any of its files,
 >please let him know as a courtesy.

 >The first batch of CD's ordered by List Members have been mailed
 >and you should either have them by now or will receive it in a
 >few days.

 >Thank You,

 >Wendy Connors & Steven Kaeser

Hi Wendy, Steve,

It is all of us who should be thanking _you!_ This must be
"Unsung Hero" appreciation day for me. I just finished
submitting a post commending Royce Myers for his good work.

Thanks Steve for cleaning up the Hickson recordings and Wendy
for bringing them to us. This is the kind of 'work' and the kind
of people (in ufology) that _I_ support. That we should all
support!

My ten bucks is in the mail Wendy!  :)

Regards,

John Velez







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   May > May 7

                        Re: P-Shaped Object? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:22:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:20:42 -0400
Subject: Re: P-Shaped Object? - Velez


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:08:59 -0300
 >Subject: P-Shaped Object?

 >Hi Errol and List,

 >Looking for further information as to type.

 >Just got a call about the following this morning. I'm wondering
 >anyoneon the List has had, or come across reports of a P shaped
 >ufo, standing upright as it moved across the sky.

 >This report comes 21 years late [1982] and the event happened in
 >Bridgewater, Nova Scotia.

 >The gentleman that reported the sighting called long distance
 >from Japan, early this morning, after recieiving a weekly
 >newspaper interview about me and UFOs from his parents.

 >Like many people, he had not been able to get the incident out
 >of his mind and was pleased to discover that there were other
 >sightings in that area during the time he lived there.

 >He seemed unaware of the totality of the phenomenon.

 >Additional details are forthcoming.

 >I'm not the sharpest at 7:05 AM in the morning. Some argue that
 >the time of day has nothing to do with it.


Hi Don,

There are a couple of Israeli sightings of large, very oddly
shaped UFOs. I believe they were recorded on video as well. The
sightings happened within the last few years. Maybe one of the
Listfolk who may be more familiar with these Israeli cases can
help me out here.

One of the videotaped objects resembles a flying apartment
building! If I'm not mistaken, that particular one had a kind of
backwards facing 'P' shape to it. (left facing 'P') Let me know
what you turn up, Don.


Regards,

John Velez







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                   Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Huthinson

From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:55:22 -500
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:29:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Huthinson


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:40:19 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics


Ed, Dave, Andrew- List and Readers,

 >How about just finding one that we can all agree measures 34
 >inches. That could be a good start. I don't see one yet. Please
 >point it out

I know Ed, Dave and others have put in some serious effort in
determining the dimensions of the debris in the FW photos. Part
of the effort has been determining a base dimension that all can
agree on. Unfortunately, I don't think that using any item in
the photos as a baseline will yield accurate results.

Look at the Ramey photo, and the radiator in the back-left of
the frame. Notice the distortion? The radiator appears to be
warped and leaning to the left, as does the frame of the window.
Yet the chair leg (next to Ramey's left knee) is perfectly
straight. A wide- angle lens on the Speed Graphic camera that
Bond used caused this optical distortion. I am not conversant on
the lenses used for a Speed Graphic, but I would judge the focal
length of the one Bond was using would be the equivalent of a
28-30mm lens for a 35mm Camera.

A wide-angle lens of this focal length will cause a considerable
amount of distortion of the apparent dimensions of the items in
question. Using the radiator as a baseline, for example, would
be useless in determining the length of any of the struts.
Adjusting for perspective will still not yield accurate results,
because the lens has grossly altered normal perspective. A
perspective correction would only be valid if the photo had been
taken with a "normal" focal length (the equivalent of a 50-55mm
lens for a 35mm camera).

This can be demonstrated easily enough by scattering some
yardsticks in roughly the same pattern then taking a picture
with a 28mm lens.

Has any effort been made to determine what focal length lens
Bond used, and/or to correct for the wide-angle lens distortion?
Input from Bruce Maccabee would be useful here.


Regards,

Bruce Hutchinson







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   May > May 7

                       What Happened To Felix Moncla?

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:15:41 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:32:01 -0400
Subject: What Happened To Felix Moncla?


A few years ago I gave a short talk on the puzzle of the missing
airplanes that had UFO encounters. Missing pilots, passengers,
and airplanes may be thought of as positive evidence of missing
mass (couldn't resist that comparison).

I interviewed an ex-USAF Captain about 20 years ago that was
stationed at a radar installation near the Canadian border and
his installation picked up radar returns on the scope that were
hovering about 50 miles north. He said that the blip jumped 10
miles within one sweep of the scope, then another 10 after
another sweep. He went to check for a visual contact but could
see nothing in the inky blackness.

His superior officer discouraged him from filing a UFO report.
He said that they checked the radar unit and found no faults. I
have the details in a taped interview, but not handy now.

The following case is the classic UFO encounter by a F-89
Scorpion over Lake Superior that was scrambled from Kinross
Field after an 'unknown' was picked up on radar. After the chase
plane seemed to merge with the target, no trace of plane or
pilot was ever found.

Does anyone have any new information on this case?

This has similarities to the Frederick Valentich case of
Australia...

3. UFOs: What Happened to Felix Moncla?

http://ufos.about.com/library/weekly/aa010698.htm

The channel that connects Lake Superior with the other Great
Lakes flows through the Soo Locks near Saulte Ste. Marie,
Michigan. On one side of the channel is the U.S., and on the
other side is Canada. The fact that this area is on a U.S.
national border makes it a restricted airspace. As such, it was
monitored by the Air Defense Command in 1953.

On the evening of 23 November 1953, an Air Defense Command
Ground Intercept radar controller at Truax AFB became alerted to
an "unknown" target over Soo Locks. He sounded the alert, and an
F-89C Scorpion jet was scrambled from nearby Kinross Field. The
jet was piloted by 1st Lieutenant Felix Moncla, Jr., with 2nd
Lieutenant R. Wilson in the rear seat as radar operator.

Ground Control vectored the jet toward the target, noting that
the target changed course as the F-89 approached it at over 500
mph. Lt. Wilson had problems tracking the target on his onboard
radar, so ground control continued to direct the jet to the
target. For thirty minutes, the jet pursued the radar blip and
began to close the gap as the UFO accelerated out over Lake
Superior.

As Ground Control watched, the gap between the two blips on the
radar screen grew smaller and smaller until the two blips became
one blip. Ground Control thought that Moncla had flown over the
target and that the two blips would separate again as he moved
past it.

That didn't happen. Suddenly, the single blip flashed off the
screen and the radar screen was clear of any return at all.

Frantically, Ground Control tried to contact the F-89 by radio.
There was no response. Marking the last radar position, Ground
Control dispatched an emergency message to Search and Rescue.
That last sighting was about seventy miles off Keweenaw Point in
upper Michigan, at an altitude of 8,000 feet, approximately 160
miles northwest of Soo Locks.

After an all night air/sea rescue search, not a trace of the
plane or the men was ever found. No debris, no oil slick,
nothing was ever found.

Officials at Norton Air Force Base Flying Safety Division issued
a statement that "the pilot probably suffered from vertigo and
crashed into the lake." However, this was merely speculation and
was based on hearsay reports that Moncla was prone to vertigo.

The Air Force explained the unknown radar target at first as a
Canadian DC-3, then later as a RCAF jet. Canadian officials
responded that there were no Canadian aircraft in the airspace
over the lake at any time during the chase. The Air Force
finally stated that the F-89 had exploded at high altitude,
ignoring the fact that this would have left a lot of debris on
the lake surface.

NICAP investigators found that mentions of Moncla's mission -
  chasing an unidentified target - had been obliterated from
official records. Project Bluebook files simply listed the case
as an "accident."

Off the record, those that were present in the Ground Control
radar room that day have expressed other opinions. They think
that whatever the F-89 was chasing directly caused the
disappearance of the jet.







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                    Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:34:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:35:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:40:19 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:47:19 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>>Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 17:02:25 -0700
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>>As I've stated repeatedly, you and I agree on much about Roswell
 >>>but you haven't done your homework on the FW debris photos.
 >
 >>Neither have you Ed.
 >
 >I've spent many hours viewing the FW debris. Even though my
 >observations and measurements may not agree with your
 >measurements, I think we're at a point where we can discuss our
 >findings and arrive at some conclusions.

We can compare measurements all we want, but you guys aren't
thinking straight. A piece that measures shorter than it would
be when it was _intact_ becomes a strange "anomaly."

You also don't have rawin construction details correctly stated,
hence your false statement about how there should be 9 white
strips in the photos. Because there aren't, it is another
mysterious "anomaly" you claim proves this isn't a radar target.

 >>>To do so, you'll have to measure the debris and show how it
 >>>matches the known dimensions of a NYU Rawin.

 >>I've done this and it's a very good match.

 >I don't see any match at all. Perhaps you could draw a map of
 >some kind so I could see which pieces you say are a match.

The expected foil triangles are there with their white strips,
and the sticks when they aren't torn away from the foil sheets
lie in the correct positions relative to the triangular sheets.
Some sticks are intact and of the correct length. Others are
broken, but the broken pieces when fitted together like a puzzle
usually also add up to expected lengths. The widths of the
sticks when they can be seen clearly usually correspond closely
to those provided by Charles Moore.

I'm still working on this Ed and will eventually write it up.
But it's also enormously time-consuming doing this work. I also
have this feeling that I would be wasting my time with you
spending many hours going over this. You seem to have this
strange notion in your head that this can't possibly be a radar
target, and nothing I can say or show you will sway you from
this position. I don't want to waste my time arguing over
whether something is a gum wrapper or not.

 >>Incidentally, the only other person I know who is doing a
 >>quantitative analysis besides myself is Andrew LaVoie. Perhaps
 >>some of your statements are based on his preliminary results,
 >>which didn't initially agree with my own.

 >>Andrew and I thrashed out our measurement differences over the
 >>phone and e-mail. He finally realized he had made a mistake in
 >>his assumptions about the radiator dimensions, which threw his
 >>scaling off. He also realized he wasn't properly taking
 >>perspective into account, again throwing off his scaling. When
 >>he finally made these corrections, we seemed to agree within a
 >>few percent on several test objects.

 >Yes all that is true but one of the test objects was a tape-like
 >piece (I know its not tape but folded over material) that should
 >be a 34 inch hypotenuse. We can see both the beginning and end
 >of that particular piece and it measures only 21 inches.

Don't you expect pieces to be shorter when they get torn up?
Please explain the big "anomaly" here. I don't get it.

 >The remainder of the tape-like hypotenuses in that photo are also
 >about that length.

One segment runs off the edge of the photo -- can't measure it's
total length. Another two segments are obviously torn and may be
mates to one another. Also one side is concealed by photo angle
and debris, so we can't see the end.

This is really a case of much ado over absolutely nothing.

 >Could you point out one of these hypotenuse
 >section that you think measures 34 inches?

I already did. It was snipped it out in your reply. That's why I
feel it's pointless spending a lot of time arguing with you. You
just ignore what I say.

Again, look at the large, relatively intact triangle leaning up
against Dubose, left edge.

 >We do have and idea of what the specs were. Have you viewed the
 >1944 ML307 assembly specs contained in the AA CD set? I'm a
 >little confused as to what you're talking about here. What are
 >you using for your dimensions?

The assembly specs don't have the dimensions of the sticks
written down, or they were cropped out when copying. The specs
are the ones provided me in e-mail by Andrew LaVoie, which are
measurements Charles Moore said he made off his 1953 model.

But the photos show a model made in 1947 or before. We don't
know those specs. We're just _assuming_ they are similar to
those of the 1953 model. But maybe some things changed a little
bit.

 >>>We know that a Rawin is constructed of nine triangles and these
 >>>triangles are all 34 inches x 24 inches x24 inches.

 >>Not exactly correct. 8 of the 9 triangles were paired and made
 >>of one sheet. Hence there were 4 larger triangles of foil/paper,
 >>each measuring about 34 x 34 x 48, and one remaining smaller one
 >>measuring 34 x 24 x 24.

 >Yes I understand; I was simply making it easier for the List to
 >visualize.

Unfortunately a description like that also leads people to
believe there should be 9 foil triangles in the photos. Not so:
5 not 9 if we are dealing with one reflector.

 >What is important is that there are nine hypotenuses
 >in a Rawin and all measure 34 inches. I don't find an hypotenuse
 >that measures 34 inches. Point out an example so we can check it
 >out.

I already did: Dubose, triangle, left edge, etc.

 >I asked you to draw a map of what you saw and how you were
 >taking your measurements. Apparently you still haven't done so,
 >for I haven't seen it. It would make it so much easier, don't
 >you think?

I'm modeling this in a 3D raytracer and matching the model to
the photos. My life isn't here for your convenience. I could
take the time to send you some stuff but would you pay attention
to it? I already pointed out one 34" strip to you, and you just
ignored it and demanded I point one out to you. Will next post
having you demanding I point it out a third time, then a fourth?

 >>>To prove your case, you need to find nine tape-like edges that
 >>>measure 34 inches and are connected to interior members/struts
 >>>that measure 24 inches.

 >>No, completely untrue. There are still nine edges where the
 >>foil/paper was wrapped around the exterior framework sticks, but
 >>not all of them are "tape-like". About half of them were wrapped
 >>foil side in, hence paper-side out. This formed a white strip
 >>(the "tape-like" strip, but not made of tape). You would expect
 >>either 4 or 5 of these, not 9. The remaining sticks (4 or 5) had
 >>the paper-side in, or foil on the outside.

 >I don't know about this since the assembly specs I've read state
 >clearly that no joint is to be glued foil to foil.

What's that got to do anything? When you wrap the foil/paper
around a stick foil side in, that produces the white strip of
paper on the outside. On the inside you have a foil to foil
joint. It says not to glue it -- tape it -- but it doesn't say
you can't have a foil-to-foil surface. In fact if you don't,
there are no white strips.

About half of these hypotenuse stick sheaths have the foil/paper
wrapped around paper side in. In these cases the stick is glued
to the paper on the inside. On the outside you have a foil strip
very difficult to distinguish from the rest of the foil, though
it would show up as a foil strip contrasted against the white
paper on the other side. We don't see any instances of those in
the FW photos because the triangular panels are all displayed
foil side up.

 >I'm not
 >familiar with the instructions that indicate that half were
 >wrapped foil side in.

That's obvious, hence the erroneous statement that there should
be 9 white strips visible in the photos. Then you declare
absolutely that the absence of all these strips represents an
"anomaly" and this isn't a radar target. Sheesh!

 >>You won't find _9_ "tape-like" white strips in photos, because
 >>the ML-307 didn't have that many. They were made with 4 or 5.
 >>Get your facts straight.

 >How about just finding one that we can all agree measures 34
 >inches. That could be a good start. I don't see one yet. Please
 >point it out

I did: the large, relatively intact triangle leaning up against
Dubose's knee, as I _already_ mentioned in my previous post when
you asked the same question.

 >>>You also will not find any supporting struts (balsa wood) that
 >>>are the correct dimensions for a NYU Rawin.

 >>Totally false. I have measured these sticks, and with the
 >>exception of maybe 2 or 3,

 >Please point out the ones you have measured so we can measure
 >them ourselves.

How much time do you think I have? I've located nearly 2 dozen
sticks and fragments. Why don't you look through the rubble,
find sticks, and make your own measurements?

You can start with the stick visible in the large, intact
triangle. You'll find it's close to the expected 34." So is the
one running along the edge of the balloon and partially covered
by it. Left end sticks out to the left of the balloon and the
right end to the right of the balloon.

Most of the other sticks are broken or partially covered up,
i.e., in most cases they aren't going to be exactly 24" or 34".
But that doesn't make them "anomalous". When things are broken
up, you expect them to be shorter. Same as when they are
partially covered up.

 >>>Also on the NYU Rawin, the paper/foil material that folds over
 >>>the struts should be folded paper to paper (as per specs) rather
 >>>than foil to foil as seen in the FW photos.

 >>As I have pointed out before, this statement is completely
 >>false. Maybe you should study the actual engineering schematic
 >>and some photos of constructed Rawins which show half the edges
 >>to be folded foil-to-foil or foil-side-in, hence the white paper
 >>strip on the outside.

 >All I have to work from are the Rawin models in the AA CD set
 >and the ML 307 engineering specs. I'd be happy to look at
 >whatever you have so we can start with common assumptions.

I'll try to e-mail you some stuff. But I don't have time to hold
your hand on this either.

And if you don't have all the data you need to argue correctly,
please stop pontificating in absolutes in public forums.

 >>>If the debris was from a UNU Rawin, you wouldn't find these anomalies.

 >>99% of these so-called "anomalies" are strictly in your
 >>imagination Ed. 1% "anomaly" (like the weird stick) does not
 >>make the other 99% not come from a Rawin. Get a grip.

 >I still insist that there are many more anomalies than "one
 >weird stick" but first we need to find one 34 inch hypotenuse on
 >which we can all agree.

Large triangle, Dubose, left edge, etc.

 >The only sure hypotenuse I've found
 >measures 21 inches, and that's not a measurement you'll find
 >anywhere on a NYU Rawin.

And that doesn't make it an "anomaly." An anomaly is when you
find the unexpected, not the expected. The radar target is not
intact. It is broken up and torn up. Why is it "anomalous" for
pieces to be shorter when they are broken and torn?

And how do one or two pieces that might be out of place make
_everything_ not be from a radar target? If somebody else's sock
gets mixed up with your laundry, do you declare that none of the
clothes belong to you?

I honest to God can't understand where you are coming from. This
is like Logic -101 as far as I'm concerned.


David Rudiak







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                Re: BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:00:33 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:37:58 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book - Tonnies


 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:32:33 +0100
 >Subject: Re: BBC 4 On Clarke & Roberts Book

<snip>

 >Can anyone tell me why debunkers get so much attention?

 >When a _good_ UFO book comes out pointing to good evidence, or
 >good testimony, etc etc. it gets ignored, just about any
 >debunker gets air time the moment they get a book out.

It's a problem with our media, which appears unable to consider
an issue in any terms either than "either/or." The mainstream
media is at its worst when it comes to UFOs: anyone endorsing an
aspect of the UFO sighting becomes a "believer," so it seems
only logical to present the "other half" of the argument--even
if there isn't one. Thus we see a constant parade of Joe
Nickells and Michael Shermers offering the same tired sound-
bites. (I'm not blaming the debunkers; in fact, I appreciate
Shermer.)



=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)
http://mactonnies.com
Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies






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                    Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:51:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:44:24 -0400
Subject: Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls? - Velez


 >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 20:13:54 -0500
 >Subject: Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls?

 >>From: Stantanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:53:06 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: NSF Article & UFO Polls?

 >>Two polls were conducted by Industrial Research and Development
 >>Magazine at my request with backing from a CUFOS member whose
 >>name escapes me.

 >>In the 1979 response to the question "Do you believe that UFOs
 >>Exist?" 27% said Definitely, 34% said Probably,12% were
 >>Undecided,20% said probably not, 8% said Definitely not.

 >>In response to the question "if you consider the possibility of
 >>UFO existence, where do you think they originate? 2% said USA,
 >>less than 1% said communist nations, 44% said outer-space, 28%
 >>said natural phenomena and 26% were undecided. Of the poll
 >>respondents, 23% had a PhD, 25% had an MS and 40% a BS.

 >>Several other polls are cited in my article.

 >Thanks for your response, Stan. While these results are
 >interesting, it seems that they all are from surveys done more
 >than 20 years ago. I'd be curious to see what the current state
 >of public opinion is, given twenty more years of UFO research
 >and twenty more years of periodic attacks on UFO research by the
 >government and the news media.

 >You probably are aware of the Sturrock survey of the opinions of
 >professional astronomers on the subject. He found a large
 >percentage of astronomers believed UFOs were a serious subject
 >and a surprisingly large numbers who admitted actually having
 >observed them. But that was in the 1970's, too. I wonder if the
 >government "education" campaigns since then have educated most
 >astronomers that they shouldn't express such opinions.

Hi Lan, Stan, All,

It's obvious that all that is needed to actualize polls of any
kind is funding. Wendy Connors recently suggested that everybody
make a contribution (sized according to your own pocketbook) to
FUFOR.

Maybe donations can be designated (requested) for specific use
by the donors themselves. Make a note on the check or attach a
note to it that requests that the funds being donated be used to
conduct UFO related polls.

_Then_ a group of interested researchers could put together a
concise questionaire and request funding for it from FUFOR. The
point is, the money will be there and earmarked for a poll if
_we_ contribute to it. (Put the $ there ourselves.)

A lot of the services we enjoy are free. This List being a prime
example. If each of us sent in $5.00 to FUFOR there would be
enough money in the coffers to to begin a public survey
immediately.

It requires an action, active participation, to make stuff like
that happen. Time to put our money where our mouths are! 'Rap'
is all well and good, but if you can't back it up with some
hard, solid support, that's all it is... just 'rap.' Back the
things and the people you believe in and you will see progress.
Pay it lip-service only and watch it wither and die. I don't
think Uncle Sam is ever going to step in and fund us. If
anything is ever going to happen in ufology we'll have to do
it/pay for it, out of pocket, ourselves. (As many of us have been
doing all along.)

Send a donation to FUFOR and request that it be earmarked for
use in conducting a public poll on the UFO question(s). A
'simple' solution to the problem.


Regards,

John Velez







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               Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:14:44 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:43:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Stuart


Bruce Maccabee, List,

Jerry Black doesn't just "proclaim" that Gulf Breeze is a hoax,
he has darn good evidence, not just limited to the Hyzer's
analysis (with their 55 years of experience) of the infamous
'road shot'. To mention just a few items, there are his
interviews with Ed's neighbors, the fact that Ed, prior to the
UFO business, liked to fake "ghost" pictures at parties using
the double exposure method, said on TV that he was abducted,
then later denied it, etc. etc. Apparently, ignorance is bliss
because no one has contacted me about talking to Mr. Black and
learning the gory details of this sordid affair. I'm not
surprised.

Neither does Mr.Black "proclaim" that others have not seen UFOs
in Gulf Breeze.

Billy Meier? I don't understand, Bruce, how you can believe Ed
Walters and not Billy Meier. The cases are very similar. Both
include repeated 'contacts' with aliens/UFOs, a model found on
the property of the claimant, (which in both cases the
proponents claim was planted!), and at least one photo which has
been proven to be a fake. I'll leave you with one final
(hopefully) comment/question about the Ed Walter's sham:

How can anyone take the photo of Ed, clad only in a towel,
shaking his fist at a hovering UFO, seriously?


--Chaz







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               Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Clarke

From: David  Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:15:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 07:00:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Clarke


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book
 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 2:32:52 -0400

 >>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:30:02 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book

 >I am going to differ here, especially concerning the US side.

 >Right up to the closure of Project Blue Book, well past the
 >1950s there were high quality radar sightings. At least one is
 >purposefully obfuscated and explained as a high speed, long
 >lasting, large "plasma ball". Such an explanation is either a
 >scientific discovery of the first rank or utter nonesense.

Hi Jan,

My comments were not made in the context of US radar incidents.
They were based purely upon what UK researchers have found, both
as a result of work in the archives and following up incidents
reported by former service personnel.

Jenny Randles, in UFO Reality (1983), produced a survey of radar
cases and found just 4 cases in Britain outside the 1950s, apart
from Rendlesham. All four were poor quality.

Our research for 'Out of the Shadows' turned up quite a number
of formerly unknown radar and radar/visual cases, but virtually
all of them came from the period 1941-1961. This was via work in
archives and via surveys of retired personnel, fighter
controller associations, etc.

 >Concerning official pronouncement, we have always found, in the
 >US, that if an official says there are no more official files
 >available, they are most certainly incorrect, misinformed, or
 >unfortunately, lying.

With respect, this is very poor argument for the existence of
undocumented radar cases. For a start, certainly in the UK we
don't have to rely on 'official pronouncments' in order to learn
about cases - most of the ones we uncovered during the survey
were volunteered by personnel who had been directly involved in
the incidents. When followed up at the PRO we often found there
_was_ an official record, or entry of some kind in log books,
validating their claims.

I tend to agree that faceless officials, such as the civil
servants who run the MOD 'UFO desk' at Whitehall tend to be
misinformed or incorrect when questioned on radar UFO incidents.
It is a different matter when dealing with operational personnel
such as AVM White, who were directly involved, and know what
they are talking about. Is he lying, incorrect or misinformed?
If so, please explain why.

As Ralph Noyes, who reached a high rank in the MoD before
retirement, told us:

"When we felt it necessary to conceal something, we simply
clammed up or stone-walled. We would never have been so stupid
as to engage in active lying. It was simpler and safer to keep
quiet."


Best,

Dave Clarke







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                          The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud

From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:32:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:25:25 -0400
Subject: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud


 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:17:35 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Subject: Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!

 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:12:13 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!

 >>>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!
 >>>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:39:39 -0700

<snip>

Thanks to all who have contacted me on this case and those
expressing their support for my story and my website - much
appreciated and I am glad that this case has finally been
exposed for the fraud that it is. I stated from day one that it
was just the most ridiculous case and I took a lot of heat from
some people out there for it.

Now that I'm done saying "told you so".....

I hope that this is a new start for a lot of people out there in
terms of getting rid of these clowns that have the nerve to call
themselves "investigators". Hopefully this will result in a lot
less frauds coming and knocking on the big UFO door - maybe
folks will just not answer it anymore or will slam the door on
the foot of the frauds trying to force their way in...

I find that several people are still sending me 'confidential'
e-mails about the Reed UFO Fraud and don't want to be quoted.

This is another problem that needs to be addressed in this field
- too many people are afraid of making public statements for
fear of being ostracized or retaliated against. This is just the
silliest damn thing I have ever seen. I understand that people
are just being careful and may have some genuine concerns, but
sooner or later you have to take a side and stand up to these
morons.

I also get quite a bit of e-mail about UFO fraud Sean David
Morton from people that want to tell me all about the guy, but
don't want their names used....? Any thoughts on this?

As always, when I am contacted and confidentiality is asked for,
that's what you get - unless you're hoaxing me in the process.

On another note - it looks like some 'Dr. Reed' supporters are
digging their heels in and preparing to fend off any negative
publicity - this includes fending off the truth and ignoring the
facts in this case. These folks know who they are and I can't
understand why they don't just step forward and expose the
fraud...? Is it $$$s, is it pride, is it absolutely fanaticism
that is driving them?

I just don't get it.

More likely than not, its probably money.

Some accountability needs to take place here. The people still
defending this blatant fraud need to start coming forward with
some answers. Instead, all we're getting is no answers and more
delays. They are probably cooking up the next scheme to explain
all of this away. don't give them the time to do any such thing,
ask them for some answers:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/howlong.html

If anyone out there on this List is associated with the 'Dr.
Reed' Case, feel free to send me any comments or rebuttals. I'm
not that hard to get a hold of - my e-mail address is:
ufowatchdog@earthlink.net All are invited to reply.

The last time a major problem with 'Dr. Reed's' photo evidence
came up, it took them over a month to respond to it. They had
plenty of time to research film dating and come up with an
excuse - which didn't hold up.

Let me share a quote with all of you:


"I just ask that you listen to his story. I assure you that if I
find out it's un-true that I will be the first one to come out on
television and say it's a hoax, even if my credibility is
affected."

              -- Jaime Maussan talking about the Reed UFO Fraud on
                 Latin America's number one TV show, Otro Rollo.


I don't think I need to say anymore. It is indeed high time that
folks start owning up to what they put out in the public. People
need to start taking responsibility on what they report.
Instead, we have a lot of people keeping their mouths shut,
hoping this will 'just go away', and some people have decided to
continue to publicize the Reed UFO Fraud as being real. Maussan
stated recently on a radio program that 'Dr. Reed' is real and
so is his case. See:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/maussanhoax.html


He also stated that I and 'Dr. Reed's' former girlfriend are on
a smear campaign to discredit the validity of the case. Maussan
never mentions the other witnesses, photos from 'Reed's' - aka
John Bradley Rutter - past, what 'Reed's' real name is, or the
other evidence at my website.

I guess we'll just see what happens from here... hopefully this
will serve as a long overdue wake-up call and a lot of non-sense
in this field will be swept away...

Thanks again for all the great support and the tremendous
response to the story.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III

UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"







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              Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:44:36 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 06:51:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book - Friedman


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book
 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 2:32:52 -0400

 >>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:30:02 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book

 >>>From: Jean van Gemert <j.vangemert@chello.nl>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 21:24:53 +0200
 >>>Subject: Re: Observer On Clarke & Roberts Book

 >>>>Source: The Observer (UK), May 5, 2002 - UK news

 >>>>http://observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,710181,00.html

 >>><snip>

 >>>As for the decrease in radar reports, that straw man has been
 >>>discussed before on the list. With no contemporary "BlueBook"
 >>>system to channel reports to the public/researchers (after all,
 >>>that *is* where most of the radar cases came from), there's no
 >>>real way to tell how many UFOs show up on military radar these
 >>>days. I doubt that Clarke is privy to such intelligence
 >>>information.

<snip>

 >>Two of the detailed reports from RAF aircrew described in the
 >>book (those by Farnborough test pilots in 1950, and the report
 >>by the crew of a Meteor during 'Exercise Mainbrace'), are
 >>inexplicable as far as I'm concerned. The latter had a radar
 >>aspect to the report. My point is that such high quality
 >>radar/visuals are few and far between, and are largely
 >>concentrated during the 1950s. Research into the MOD archives,
 >>1962-1972 brought less than a handful of radar cases to light,
 >>none of which featured a visual component. That cannot simply be
 >>a 'blip'!

 >I am going to differ here, especially concerning the US side.

 >Right up to the closure of Project Blue Book, well past the
 >1950s there were high quality radar sightings. At least one is
 >purposefully obfuscated and explained as a high speed, long
 >lasting, large "plasma ball". Such an explanation is either a
 >scientific discovery of the first rank or utter nonesense.

 >I vote for the latter.

 >A panel of atmospheric physicists convened by the Condon
 >Committee also voted the latter. Didn't keep the USAF from
 >trying to use the explanation again.

 >The radar photographs available in the Project Blue Book files
 >on this particular case represent only those that have little
 >information and do not show the UFO manuevers and high speed.

 >Concerning official pronouncement, we have always found, in the
 >US, that if an official says there are no more official files
 >available, they are most certainly incorrect, misinformed, or
 >unfortunately, lying.

 >Radar cases in Project Blue Book are many times poorly
 >investigated.

I am in full agreement with Jan Aldrich.

Let us recall the memo from General Carroll Bolender (October
1969) which was primarily responsible for the closure of Project
Blue Book.

"... reports of unidentified flying objects which could
affect national security are made in accordance with JANAP 146
or Air Force Manual 55-11, and _are not part of the Blue Book
System_"

and a few lines later, speaking of what happens if Blue
Book is closed

"However, as already stated, reports of UFOs which could affect
national security would continue to be handled through the
standard Air Force procedures designed for this purpose."

Blue Book was _not_ on the distribution list given in these
regulations. I spoke with Bolender... there were other channels
for national security related UFO sightings.

Remember that Harry Truman, as VP of the USA, was not informed
about the Manhattan Project.


Stan Friedman







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                 Re: Location Map & Count For Northern B.C.

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 13:28:37 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:29:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Location Map & Count For Northern B.C.


 >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Location Map & Count For Northern B.C. Sightings
 >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 23:04:12 -0700


 >I thought some of you might find this of interest.....

 >I put together a quick map to show most of the sightings which
 >have taken place here, in Northern British Columbia. I've marked
 >each of the towns with a small red square which indicated where
 >the sightings took place. At the bottom I named the town with
 >the number of reported sightings I've received.

 >Now I think I am off somewhere, still looking up a few more. But
 >it gives an idea where and how many there were.

 >Also, after a little while I should have a break down for each
 >of the communities that will show what some folks have said in
 >the past about what is it that attracts these objects. I am
 >finding it of interest. But will get that later, still looking
 >up the goodies.

 >Anyway, here is the URL for the British Columbia map showing the
 >locations of the sightings, and the count.

<snip>

Seems like many of this are close to the highways or roads where
they could be readily seen by motorists. I wonder how many are
seen far from the roads. It just brings out some interesting
speculation as to whether cars on the roads are attracting
sightseeing UFOs or just that people in cars are noticing more
of their environment.


-Bill Hamilton






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                 Re: What Happened To Felix Moncla? - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:41:07 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:33:13 -0400
Subject: Re: What Happened To Felix Moncla? - White


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:15:41 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: What Happened To Felix Moncla?

He lost, in an encounter with a psycho-social phenomenon.


Eleanor White







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              Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:18:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:46:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 13:58:52 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 14:22:26 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>Jerry Black responded as follows:

 >>>Keep in mind that as of May 3, 2002, we have not proven what
 >>>his UFO phenomena represents, contrary to the many statements
 >>>put out there by lead investigators such as Stanton Friedman,
 >>>Kevin Randle, Bruce Maccabee and other notables in the field of
 >>>Ufology who routinely state matter-of-factly that this phenomena
 >>>absolutely represents extraterrestrials from another planet."

 >>I have not said that this phenomena [sic] _absolutely_ represents
 >>extraterrestrials from another planet.

 >Well, I take it back. In my previous post I wrote that Bruce,
 >among others Black has been criticizing, knows the difference
 >between "phenomena" and "phenomenon". The above indicates
 >otherwise. C'mon, Bruce, you know better, or should.

Mea Culpa!!! I bow my head in semi-complete disgrace. (Perhaps
complete disgrace comes later? According to Mr. Black it has
already come.) I should have written "these phenomena" or "this
phenomenon". The error resulted from my attempt to quickly
answer this one, of numerous email messages, while also managing
to perform numerous other duties required by life.







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                        Re: P-Shaped Object? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:20:10 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:52:34 -0400
Subject: Re: P-Shaped Object? - Ledger


 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:22:31 -0400
 >Subject: Re: P-Shaped Object?

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:08:59 -0300
 >>Subject: P-Shaped Object?

 >>Hi Errol and List,

 >>Looking for further information as to type.

 >>Just got a call about the following this morning. I'm wondering
 >>anyoneon the List has had, or come across reports of a P shaped
 >>ufo, standing upright as it moved across the sky.

 >>This report comes 21 years late [1982] and the event happened in
 >>Bridgewater, Nova Scotia.

 >>The gentleman that reported the sighting called long distance
 >>from Japan, early this morning, after recieiving a weekly
 >>newspaper interview about me and UFOs from his parents.

 >>Like many people, he had not been able to get the incident out
 >>of his mind and was pleased to discover that there were other
 >>sightings in that area during the time he lived there.

 >>He seemed unaware of the totality of the phenomenon.

 >>Additional details are forthcoming.

 >>I'm not the sharpest at 7:05 AM in the morning. Some argue that
 >>the time of day has nothing to do with it.

 >There are a couple of Israeli sightings of large, very oddly
 >shaped UFOs. I believe they were recorded on video as well. The
 >sightings happened within the last few years. Maybe one of the
 >Listfolk who may be more familiar with these Israeli cases can
 >help me out here.

 >One of the videotaped objects resembles a flying apartment
 >building! If I'm not mistaken, that particular one had a kind of
 >backwards facing 'P' shape to it. (left facing 'P') Let me know
 >what you turn up, Don.


Hi John,

So far, nothing has turned up. I've heard - actually I've seen
that aparment-like UFO on a recent replayed 'Best UFOs on Tape'
segment on TLC.

As usual the witness who cntacted me has failed to follow thru
on his faxed drawing. I'll keep you posted.


Regards,

Don







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                Re: What Happened To Felix Moncla? - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:36:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:56:45 -0400
Subject: Re: What Happened To Felix Moncla? - Aldrich


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:15:41 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: What Happened To Felix Moncla?

 >A few years ago I gave a short talk on the puzzle of the missing
 >airplanes that had UFO encounters. Missing pilots, passengers,
 >and airplanes may be thought of as positive evidence of missing
 >mass (couldn't resist that comparison).

 >I interviewed an ex-USAF Captain about 20 years ago that was
 >stationed at a radar installation near the Canadian border and
 >his installation picked up radar returns on the scope that were
 >hovering about 50 miles north. He said that the blip jumped 10
 >miles within one sweep of the scope, then another 10 after
 >another sweep. He went to check for a visual contact but could
 >see nothing in the inky blackness.

 >His superior officer discouraged him from filing a UFO report.
 >He said that they checked the radar unit and found no faults. I
 >have the details in a taped interview, but not handy now.

 >The following case is the classic UFO encounter by a F-89
 >Scorpion over Lake Superior that was scrambled from Kinross
 >Field after an 'unknown' was picked up on radar. After the chase
 >plane seemed to merge with the target, no trace of plane or
 >pilot was ever found.

 >Does anyone have any new information on this case?

 >This has similarities to the Frederick Valentich case of
 >Australia...

 >3. UFOs: What Happened to Felix Moncla?

 >http://ufos.about.com/library/weekly/aa010698.htm

<snip>

Hi Bill,

I have collected a large file on this case thanks to Ray Fowler,
CUFOS, Jerry Clark and especially Robert Todd. Both the accident
report and the unit history read like the account in Keyhoe's
book; that is, the blips merged and moved off the scope. One
must be careful with merging blips. (For Example, aircraft on a
radar scope will sometimes appear to merge with returns from a
flock of geese.)

See the CUFON website for more on this case.

www.cofon.org

I would be interested in your interview. Perhaps we can exchange
data.


Regards,

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:17:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 09:21:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Young


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:39:58 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >As I and others have pointed out, there are serious problems
 >with what he thinks. His analysis looks more self-serving - in
 >other words, more like self-righteous posturing than useful,
 >or pointed. It is also unpleasantly and needlessly personality -
 >rather than issue - oriented. It is based, as well, on the
 >misguided premise that ufology's problems are the responsibility
 >of a few wicked people. Beyond failing to validate that premise,
 >Black can't even mount a persuasive argument for their
 >wickedness.

Jerry;

Oh, come on! I asked for a specific example of Black's
investigative mis-conduct in effort to concede the argument to
you, but instead, you fog the issue with the routine about your
displeasure with his 'personality-oriented' inquiry. If you're
exposing a hoax, of course it's personality-oriented!

As I said earlier, in response to an off-base message from Lan
Fleming, the motives and intents of both the UFO claimant and
the UFO promoter is a mighty legitimate focus of inquiry. Your
failure recognize this in the context of the present discussion
and your neglect in presenting one coherent example, as
requested, to support your contention of Black's misconduct is
the routine 'fogging' and 'clouding' of this discussion we see
time and again. Further, I do not foresee an end to beclouding
and fogging efforts that really screw Ufology.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do; in the next few weeks I will
assemble item-by-item, point-blank data points to illustrate why
this case is a ruse and Jerry Black's efforts are not barstool
ranting.

I have other investigative fronts open right now and although
I'm not big-time interested in the GB hoax, or know the ins and
outs of Gulf Breeze I will ask Jerry Black and others to submit
their input, and will make the information available in a short
and concise summary here or on a website.

I hope to create a useful reference or 25 to 50-item index page
pointing to other reports that I'm sure would complicate the
general 'fogging' tactics that you and others use to try to
debunk this data.

The last message from Charles Stuart shows that Black's efforts
are not just barstool commentary. There are investigative
findings and substantive reasons that cause the rational analyst
to recognize this GB case is a hoax.

You have fogged and beclouded the general acceptance of these
vital conclusions with your insupportable mudslinging tirades
against Jerry Black long enough.


KY







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                          Secrecy News -- 05/07/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:38:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 09:35:00 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/07/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 40
May 7, 2002


**      PROPOSED CONTROLS ON DEFENSE RESEARCH CRITIQUED
**      U.S. AID TO COLOMBIA DOCUMENTED
**      WOLFOWITZ ON ISLAM


PROPOSED CONTROLS ON DEFENSE RESEARCH CRITIQUED

Proposed new security controls on research funded by the
Department of Defense (DoD) have come under fire from within the
Department and from concerned scientists in industry and
academia.

The proposed measures are so expansive in scope that "they
create the possibility for criminal sanctions to be brought
against individuals publishing unclassified research," according
to an internal DoD critique.

The controls, which are described in draft DoD directives, would
erode longstanding distinctions between classified and
unclassified information, as well as those between basic
research and technology, according to the critique by Donald J.
DeYoung of the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory.

"If approved in their present form, the Directives can be
expected to have a chilling effect on the defense research
conducted by the nation's universities, industrial centers, and
military laboratories," Mr. DeYoung wrote.

A copy of his April 2 White Paper on "Proposed Security Controls
on Defense Research," obtained by Secrecy News, may be found
here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/deyoung.html

Defense Department security officials have been taken aback by
the mounting controversy over the draft security directives and
say it reflects a misapprehension of the directives' content and
implications.

Nevertheless, the question of new controls on unclassified
research has generated substantial concern among scientists, and
is on the agenda of two closed high-level meetings of leaders of
scientific organizations this week and next.


U.S. AID TO COLOMBIA DOCUMENTED

"Recently declassified U.S. documents show that despite legal
limits and repeated public assurances by government officials,
U.S. aid [to Colombia] has blurred the lines between counterdrug
and counterinsurgency to the point that the U.S. is on the brink
of direct confrontation with the guerrillas and ever deeper
involvement in Colombia's seemingly intractable civil conflict,"
according to a new compilation of documents published by the
National Security Archive.

See "Guerrillas, Drugs and Human Rights in U.S.-Colombia Policy,
1988-2002," edited by Michael Evans and published on May 3,
here:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB69/

Related background information is available in a new
Congressional Research Service report entitled "Andean Regional
Initiative (ARI): FY2002 Supplemental and FY2003 Assistance for
Colombia and Neighbors," dated April 23, here:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL31383.pdf


WOLFOWITZ ON ISLAM

Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz spoke last week of
the need "to understand the many facets of the Muslim world" and
to strengthen the representatives of "Islam's tradition of
tolerance and moderation."

The speech, which displayed unexpected breadth and discernment,
has nothing to do with secrecy except that it received less
public attention than it deserves.

See the text of Wolfowitz's speech, entitled "Bridging the
Dangerous Gap between the West and the Muslim World," here:

http://www.defenselink.mil/speeches/2002/s20020503-
depsecdef.html


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with
this command in the body of the message:
subscribe secrecy_news

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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              Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 00:09:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:07:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee


 >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:14:44 -0500 (EST)
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee


 >Bruce Maccabee, List,

 >Jerry Black doesn't just "proclaim" that Gulf Breeze is a hoax,
 >he has darn good evidence,

What about the evidence that contradicts the hoax hypothesis?
There is some (a lot), you know. Had there been no such evidence
(contradicting the hoax hypothesis) I would have rejected this
long, long ago.

 >not just limited to the Hyzer's analysis (with their 55 years
 >of experience) of the infamous 'road shot'.

Which has been discussed ad nauseum and hoax arguments rejected.
55 years of experience in conventional photographic analysis
does not guarantee a correct analysis of unconventional photos.

Hyzer was very clever to figure out a method to fake photo 1,
for example, in which the dark tree branches apparently hide
part of the brighter UFO.

However, analysis of the original photo by Jeff Sainio showed
that the quantitative requirements on brightness for the Hyzer
method to work simply were not consistent with actual
measurements on the photo. (For Hyzer's method to have worked it
would have been necessary that the tree image be the darkest -
  least reflective - portion of the picture. It wasn't. Other
parts of the picture were darker than the tree.

To understand why this is important one has to read Hyzer's
discussion of his method and Sainio's discussion of the
measurements to test the Hyzer hypothesis.)

As for Photo 19 - the road shot - the failure to have a
reflection in the hood was a result of the hood being bent... a
_fact_ that was actually recorded in the photo itself... (the
unexpected portion of the image of the reflection of the sky).
Furthermore, Sainio found evidence of light on the road near the
UFO, (Note that Sainio used the original photos, Hyzer worked
from copies supplied by Walt Andrus)

 >To mention just a few items, there are his interviews with Ed's
 >neighbors,

Lot's of people talked to Ed's neighbors. George Filer visited
the area and talked to lots of people in Gulf Breeze (see
introduction to 'UFOs Are Real'...)

 >the fact that Ed, prior to the UFO business, liked to fake
 >"ghost" pictures at parties using the double exposure method,

Wrong. He defocused the camera to create a "ghosty" effect
(defocusing made the person look funny).

There is one photo which had a anomalous 'light distribution' (I
hesitate to call it an "image" because an image is an image of
something) which skeptics have claimed to be a 'ghost image'
created by double exposure. Anyone looking at the 'light
distribution' would be hard pressed to call it the image of
anything.

But at any rate, it has led to the myth that Ed faked photos at
parties using double-exposure.

_If_ a photo of a 'ghost' had been created by the Simple Double
Exposure technique proposed by the skeptics, it would have been
done as follows:

Take a photo of a mask or a face of the person who is to be the
ghost in a dark room using a flashlight or similar to light the
person's face. This is an old Polaroid camera where you can
click the shutter as many times as you want before pulling the
film out to start the development.

So, don't pull the film.

Now go out into the party room and photograph the person who is
to have a 'ghost' in the picture. This second exposure of the
same piece of film is taken with a flash and then the film is
pulled out and developed.

Upon looking one sees the photo of the person and a 'ghost'
image. Said ghost image will look like whatever mask or person's
face was used in the first exposure (in the dark room). I say
again, the 'ghost' image will look like something distinct... a
face, a mask, whatever. It may be faint, but it will be
distinct. I know, 'cause I created photos this way with Ed's
camera.

The "ghost image" discussed by the skeptics is not a distinct
image. It is a 'random distribution of light' and it is a
Rohrschack (sp?) test for the observer to see a 'ghost' in it.

 >said on TV that he was abducted, then later denied it,

Yup. He hated the thought that he had been abducted. In his book
The Gulf Breeze Sightings he says nothing about being abducted
although the title of the last chapter (the title was written by
the book editor, he says) does say he was abducted. But the last
chapter says nothing about it. He denied being abducted on the
Oprah show.

This was clearly an error on his part because by that time he
had gone through some 8 hours of regression, preceded by a
personality test and other tests, with Dr. Dan Overlade, a
clinical psychologist.

The information from regressions clearly indicated that, at the
very least, there was more to his experience than 'just' photos.
But more than that, the regression information did indicate
repeated abduction. Eventually he 'owned-up' to this portion of
these experiences and wrote all about them in his second book,
'Abductions In Gulf Breeze'.

Incidently, Overlade was skeptical at first... and probably at
last - he died in the early 90's - but his work with Ed
convinced him that something new was happening here and so,
after working with Ed he made himself available to 8, as I
recall, other people in GB who had abduction experiences.

For a while in the late 80's and early 90's there was an
abduction support group in GB.

After subjecting Ed to a battery of psychological tests and
after seeing Ed go through these regressions Overlade stated
clearly that, in his opinion, Ed was not a sociopath - someone
who essentially can't distinguish truth from falsehood and who
has a 'con-man-type' of personality - and furthermore gave no
indications of lying.

The same opinion was voiced by Harvey McLaughlin to me in a long
interview... McLaughlin tested Ed _twice_ by polygraph.

 >etc. etc. Apparently, ignorance is bliss because no one has
 >contacted me about talking to Mr. Black and learning the gory
 >details of this sordid affair. I'm not surprised.

Anyone can access the UFO UpDates Archive to see arguments,
discussions, charges and countercharges.

 >Neither does Mr.Black "proclaim" that others have not seen UFOs
 >in Gulf Breeze.

Interesting. I wonder which cases he accepts as real?

 >Billy Meier? I don't understand, Bruce, how you can believe Ed
 >Walters and not Billy Meier. The cases are very similar.

I guess you didn't read my article in IUR wa,y back when,
entitled 'Billy Is Not Ed'.

 >Both include repeated 'contacts' with aliens/UFOs,

Yes, but Meier's contacts over many years were pleasant events
and resulted in 'spiritual contact' with many religious
overtones... and Meier supported himself, apparently, with the
donations of his followers

 >a model found on the property of the claimant, (which in both
 >cases the proponents claim was planted!),

The model found on Ed's property was found under very suspicious
circumstances..... It resembled what was in the photos, but that
model did not appear in any of Ed's photos.

 >and at least one photo which has been proven to be a fake.

Well, I certainly question Meier's move of the 'pendulum-like'
object/UFO that swings back and forth.

As for Ed., I wonder which one was "proven" fake. The road shot?

(See above)

On the other hand, how about the blue beam photo #11? I have
proven that it wasn't a simple double exposure. Also, as pointed
out above, Photo 1 wasn't faked by The Hyzer method. Neither was
it faked by simple double exposure. There are other photos which
argue strongly against the faking.... the most important being
the collection of stereo photos.... which the skeptics
apparently don't understand.

 >I'll leave you with one final (hopefully) comment/question
 >about the Ed Walter's sham:

 >How can anyone take the photo of Ed, clad only in a towel,
 >shaking his fist at a hovering UFO, seriously?

If that were the only photo and if there were no consistent
story behind it, it would probably would have been rejected.....
The same thing could be said about any one of Ed's photos taken
out of context.

But then, you could say the same about _any_ UFO photo taken out
of context. Trent's garbage can lid, or hubcap, or pie pan
or... truck mirror(!)... for example. Even the New Zealand movie
would fall flat without all the supplementary information that
establishs the context for the images on the film.

Some people have been 'dismayed' that I wrote a book with Ed -
  'UFOS Are Real' & 'Here's The Proof' - which present some
analyses of his original sightings, plus a lot of what happened
after 1988.

My response is: I'm not sorry you are 'dismayed'.

 From the point of view of a physicist, Ed has done more
experiments that would have proven his photos to be fakes - if
they were fakes - than almost all ufologists combined - Harley
Rutledge and the Hessdalen investigators come to mind as
comparable in the number of experiments done. He certainly has
done more than the experts discussed by Black.

There are those who would say I was gullible and Ed Was
brilliant and therefore I fell for all his faking, including his
faking of the experiments I requested. Well, I'm not so naive as
to believe what the 'guilty party' - Ed, presumed guilty until
proven innocent - says.

The experimental procedures to check out Ed's photos were all
checked by me. I never found evidence of him faking an
experiment. To the contrary, he sometimes provided even more
experimental evidence than I had asked for. But I checked out
even this added information.

Remember.... I started off assuming it was all a fake. I looked
for evidence of fakery.

On the other hand, I was not impressed by the weak arguments for
faking that were promoted by others in the early spring of 1988.

Nevertheless, I wasn't taking any chances.

I well knew the import of saying it was real - after all I had
'suffered' the consequences of proclaiming McMinnville/Trent and
New Zealand to be real.

I studied the case for about 5 monthes before, at the MUFON
Symposium in July 1988, I made a strong case for _not_ rejecting
Ed without really solid evidence of a hoax. The reasons I gave
for _not_ rejecting Ed included all the photo analysis, the
stereo photos, the context of his own (and his family's)
sightings and also the other sightings in the area.

But that's all history, available to anyone really interested
enough to look it up. No point in using up mondo bandwidth going
over old, archived arguments. If anyone has anything _really_
new... I'd be interested.







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                   Re: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 02:29:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:20:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Spielberg's 'Taken' Project - Velez


Hello All,

I received word regarding the Dreamworks projects from a
_reliable_ associate. I'd like to pass it along to the List. I
hope this clears up any confusion about the difference between
these two 'UFO/abduction' related productions.

I've checked these folks out, carefully, myself, spoken to the
principles and I'm satisfied that we are dealing with credible
people here. I guess we'll all find out together if they are
not. Based on this assessment I have consented to participate in
the documentary.

You guys know me. If I'd smelled anything fishy I would have
said something.

They seem to be serious people who are interested in producing
an unbiased presentation of what is being reported by so many
people world-wide.

Having checked out the producers credentials and knowing that
Dreamworks will have a hand in it, I'm actually excited about
participating, and hopeful about the outcome. You don't hear me
say that very often and I get these 'invitations' regularly. I
haven't consented to participate in _any_ of the media projects
I've been offered for over three years. This is the first in
many Moons that I said yes to and am satisfied that I'm dealing
with credible/reputable people.

I hope this note serves to clear up any residual
misunderstanding regarding which program is which.

Here is the note I received from another participant in the
documentary project:


"..... I am now credibly informed that the 10-part fiction series
'Taken' is one thing, and the [name of production company
deleted for reasons of privacy] Productions documentary is just
that - a free-standing documentary.

The only connection is that the documentary is also sponsored by
DreamWorks and their publicity department is supposed to be
promoting both.

I was told that the documentary was going to air at a different
time, probably before 'Taken' and that it will be shown intact
as produced, not cut and pasted or used in any way in the
series.

The executive that I spoke with said she would phone the
DreamWorks publicity department and ask them to distinguish the
documentary from the fiction series more clearly."


Thank you 'anonymous' source!  :)

Regards, looking forward...


John Velez







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                 Re: What Happened To Felix Moncla? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:24:53 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:24:02 -0400
Subject: Re: What Happened To Felix Moncla? - Ledger


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: What Happened To Felix Moncla?
 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:36:49 -0400

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:15:41 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: What Happened To Felix Moncla?

 >>A few years ago I gave a short talk on the puzzle of the missing
 >>airplanes that had UFO encounters. Missing pilots, passengers,
 >>and airplanes may be thought of as positive evidence of missing
 >>mass (couldn't resist that comparison).

 >>I interviewed an ex-USAF Captain about 20 years ago that was
 >>stationed at a radar installation near the Canadian border and
 >>his installation picked up radar returns on the scope that were
 >>hovering about 50 miles north. He said that the blip jumped 10
 >>miles within one sweep of the scope, then another 10 after
 >>another sweep. He went to check for a visual contact but could
 >>see nothing in the inky blackness.

 >>His superior officer discouraged him from filing a UFO report.
 >>He said that they checked the radar unit and found no faults. I
 >>have the details in a taped interview, but not handy now.

 >>The following case is the classic UFO encounter by a F-89
 >>Scorpion over Lake Superior that was scrambled from Kinross
 >>Field after an 'unknown' was picked up on radar. After the chase
 >>plane seemed to merge with the target, no trace of plane or
 >>pilot was ever found.

 >>Does anyone have any new information on this case?

 >>This has similarities to the Frederick Valentich case of
 >>Australia...

 >>3. UFOs: What Happened to Felix Moncla?

 >>http://ufos.about.com/library/weekly/aa010698.htm

 ><snip>

 >I have collected a large file on this case thanks to Ray Fowler,
 >CUFOS, Jerry Clark and especially Robert Todd. Both the accident
 >report and the unit history read like the account in Keyhoe's
 >book; that is, the blips merged and moved off the scope. One
 >must be careful with merging blips. (For Example, aircraft on a
 >radar scope will sometimes appear to merge with returns from a
 >flock of geese.)

 >See the CUFON website for more on this case.

 >www.cofon.org

 >I would be interested in your interview. Perhaps we can exchange
 >data.


Hi Bill and Jan,

There is information missing here. Where's the IFF
identification? The none-existant RCAF Dakota would have been
squawking a generic transponder code.

Why does the USAF report refer to talking to the bogie which apparently
doesn't have a visual on the F-89C? If they are talking to the bogie why
are they attempting to intercept it for identification?

Re. Jan's merging of blips - additionally, a blip tends to be many
times larger than the actual target appearing as much as a 1/2
mile in size [or more] on the scope's range scale. As well the
F-89C's return would have been enhanced by it's IFF return.

Best,

Don Ledger







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                  Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 15:31:19 -0400
Subject: Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud - Hamilton


 >From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:32:02 -0700
 >Subject: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud

 >>Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:17:35 -0400
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>Subject: Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!

 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>>Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:12:13 -0700 (PDT)
 >>>Subject: Re: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!

 >>>>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Subject: 'Jonathan Reed' Exposed!
 >>>>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:39:39 -0700

 ><snip>

 >Thanks to all who have contacted me on this case and those
 >expressing their support for my story and my website - much
 >appreciated and I am glad that this case has finally been
 >exposed for the fraud that it is. I stated from day one that it
 >was just the most ridiculous case and I took a lot of heat from
 >some people out there for it.

 >Now that I'm done saying "told you so".....

 >I hope that this is a new start for a lot of people out there in
 >terms of getting rid of these clowns that have the nerve to call
 >themselves "investigators". Hopefully this will result in a lot
 >less frauds coming and knocking on the big UFO door - maybe
 >folks will just not answer it anymore or will slam the door on
 >the foot of the frauds trying to force their way in...

 >I find that several people are still sending me 'confidential'
 >e-mails about the Reed UFO Fraud and don't want to be quoted.

 >This is another problem that needs to be addressed in this field
 >- too many people are afraid of making public statements for
 >fear of being ostracized or retaliated against. This is just the
 >silliest damn thing I have ever seen. I understand that people
 >are just being careful and may have some genuine concerns, but
 >sooner or later you have to take a side and stand up to these
 >morons.

 >I also get quite a bit of e-mail about UFO fraud Sean David
 >Morton from people that want to tell me all about the guy, but
 >don't want their names used....? Any thoughts on this?

I first met Sean David Morton years ago in a friend's apartment.
He had his arms around two young girls. He seemed like the king
rooster. He was working on a terrible script having to do with a
'Green Stone' found in the U.K.

After I started looking into Area 51 (1988), he suddenly showed
up and started making claims. He has his photo on the wall at
the Little A'Le'Inn with a proclamation under it saying,
"World's Greatest UFO Researcher".

He would then give me platitudes about how great a researcher I
was - a ploy often used by con-men - and start to tell me about
his investigation of Dulce and other outstanding achievements.
It wasn't long before I heard that he was the World's Greatest
Psychic, Exorcist, and Ghost Buster as well. Such talent needs
homage.

He certainly is a fast-talker and won't let other speakers on
panels get in a word edgewise. He has now won the heart and mind
of Art Bell.

He has operators on the line waiting to receive orders for his
newsletter.

He is now declaring himself to be a Remote Viewing spy for the
Pentagon with contacts to a certain female Colonel. He has
pinpointed the location of Bin Laden via RV, and teaches RV
classes. I have not heard what price he is asking, but he sure
knows how to bankroll his con and keep up with the latest appeal
to the public.

Well, Royce, should we hand him a plaque to hang on his wall?
Maybe it should read, "World's Greatest FlimFlam Man"!


-Bill Hamilton






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                               Something I Saw

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:03:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 15:38:20 -0400
Subject: Something I Saw


Last night my brother-in-law and I saw something in the sky last
night that we couldn't identify. I'm hoping someone on the List
can tell us what it might have been.

Richard, my brother-in-law, is in his late fifties, as I am.
He's a professor of mathematics at Rutgers University, and an
outspoken, even angry UFO skeptic. That doesn't stop us from
being friends. My wife and I had him, my sister, and one of
their kids over for dinner last night. We ate on our roof, in
midtown Manhattan, near Times Square. By around 10:30 PM, my
niece had fallen asleep on the couch downstairs, and my sister
and my wife were also downstairs. Richard was lying in our
hammock and I was sitting beside him.

Suddenly he looked up at the sky, and said, "What's that?" He
pointed at two pale white lights south of us, moving north on
what looked like an exactly parallel trajectory, at about the
speed of a plane. Or perhaps a little faster. The lights were
bright enough to see easily, but not strongly bright. Less
bright, by far, than Jupiter on a good night, and also, I'd say,
less bright than the lights of a plane. They had, if this
metaphor communicates anything, a kind of quiet brightness. Each
was about 1/4 the diameter of a dime held at arms' length. Maybe
a little larger. The two lights together might have spanned the
full diameter of the dime.

My first reaction was, "It's a plane." I thought that because of
how the lights moved. But I'd never seen lights like that on a
plane. There was no flashing light at the tail, for instance.
Just these two lights, which - if they'd been on a plane -
would have been on the bottom of the wings. (Assuming that the
source of the lights was at the normal height of a plane, and
that it was about the same size as one.)

Richard, watching the lights, said, "It can't be a plane. See
how the lights are flexing?" And he was right. "Flexing" was a
good description. As the lights moved north, they'd move closer
together, and then move apart. They did this in an apparently
rhythmic, but not completely regular way, while maintaing their
otherwise parallel motion. And they kept on doing it as the
lights moved approximately north, then turned approximately to
the northeast where a tall building blocked our view of them. We
saw them for perhaps 10 to 15 seconds. I originally thought it
was five seconds; Richard thought 30 seconds. We tried to
recreate the experience afterward, by tracing the trajectory we
saw while my wife counted off seconds, and 15 seems like a
reasonable compromise. It's possible, though, Richard saw the
lights longer than I did, though, so maybe his estimate is
correct. I just don't know how much longer he viewed them, and
he wasn't clear about exactly where in the sky he first saw
them.

There was no sound from the lights. They looked a little bit as
if they were on wings that flapped. My sister joked afterwards
that maybe we'd seen a pteradactyl with lights on its wings, and
that's not too far off, as an evocative metaphor. Except that
the motion of the lights seemed a little too regular for that.
They seemed, most of the time, at least, to slide toward each
other, and then away from each other, on a straight line, which
I don't think would be the case if they were really on flapping
wings.

Anyhow, both Richard and I are baffled. We're not claiming we
saw anything unexplainable. We just don't know what the
explanation is. Neither of us have ever seen anything remotely
like this. Nor have we heard of anything.

Can anyone on the List enlighten us? I'd be grateful.


Greg Sandow







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                Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:21:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 15:43:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Clark


 >Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:17:08 -0700
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:39:58 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>As I and others have pointed out, there are serious problems
 >>with what he thinks. His analysis looks more self-serving - in
 >>other words, more like self-righteous posturing than useful,
 >>or pointed. It is also unpleasantly and needlessly personality -
 >>rather than issue - oriented. It is based, as well, on the
 >>misguided premise that ufology's problems are the responsibility
 >>of a few wicked people. Beyond failing to validate that premise,
 >>Black can't even mount a persuasive argument for their
 >>wickedness.

 >Oh, come on! I asked for a specific example of Black's
 >investigative mis-conduct in effort to concede the argument to
 >you, but instead, you fog the issue with the routine about your
 >displeasure with his 'personality-oriented' inquiry. If you're
 >exposing a hoax, of course it's personality-oriented!

I am clipping the rest of this to save bandwidth, but the rest
of you get the idea. Kenny, I'm afraid that your posting just
about defines the adjective "disingenuous." Unable to conjure up
a meaningful rejoinder, you are - surprise! - trying to change
the subject.

This whole dreary business started with Jerry Black's being
quoted, yet again, on the dubious character of leading
individuals in ufology. He cited specific examples, and I
responded specifically.

For example, he alleged in a newspaper account that Budd Hopkins
is a mere moneygrubber. When I objected, Black backtracked -
apparently even he grasped that this one wasn't going to fly -
and invented new charges, namely that Hopkins does not (1)
attempt to investigate or document abduction claims because he,
according to Black, (2) desperately wants to believe in ETs. I
responded by demonstrating how (1) is manifestly false and (2)
is, given Hopkins's alarming theories about the abduction
phenomenon, clearly preposterous.

Black emerges periodically - see, for example, the discussion,
if you have nothing better to do with your life, on this List in
May 1999 - to blast colleagues with wild charges about their bad
character. When these prove indefensible, his loyal and
unquestioning followers try to change the subject.

In this case, Kenny, you're trying to change the subject to
whether or not certain famous cases are hoaxes. If that had been
the subject in the first place, this irritating, pointless
discussion would never have occurred. Unfortunately, the subject
in the first place was not the authenticity or otherwise of
these cases - which is fair game and already the subject of a
considerable literature - but the supposedly corrupt, depraved
nature of those who hold views different from Black's.

I would like to think that Black, would by now understand that
when we're confronted with complex UFO cases and claims,
honorable people are going to disagree. Apparently, however,
this simple point is inconsistent with the demands of the sort
of self-righteous arm-flailing in which Black feels strangely
obliged to indulge himself as, it appears, a serial offender.

If Black expects to be heard and respected, he should learn some
elemental collegial courtesy. He may find it hard to believe,
but one makes one's points most effectively by disagreeing
without being disagreeable. Sad to say, I'm afraid that the
title of an old Ernest Tubb song comes to mind:

There's no fool like an old fool.


Jerry Clark







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                 Re: Location Map & Count For Northern B.C.

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 08:04:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 15:52:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Location Map & Count For Northern B.C.


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 13:28:37 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Location Map & Count For Northern B.C. Sightings

 >Seems like many of this are close to the highways or roads where
 >they could be readily seen by motorists. I wonder how many are
 >seen far from the roads. It just brings out some interesting
 >speculation as to whether cars on the roads are attracting
 >sightseeing UFOs or just that people in cars are noticing more
 >of their environment.


Hi Bill & List

The map I put together is a rough idea as to where the sightings
are taking place. Many of them have been from highways and is
one reason these strange things are being seen. Some from
peoples homes.

I was asked last week if there is any kinds of mineral in the
areas that "may" be attractive to the objects. Many in
the past think there is an association with minerals and UFOs.

Well, the whole country up here, in British Columbia, is riddled
with minerals of all types. Also we have major power lines
running around and over top the mountains. Lakes and rivers,
so you could say there is no shortage of water.

There are a lot of other ideas we could try to put together, so
I just mention a few.

I've been slowly gathering information about some of the above
in relation to where flying objects were seen. There may be, or
maybe not any connection but it is worth looking into.

Also, there is a lot of nothing, meaning no homes, farms, etc...
in between towns, other than some scattered homesteads. There are
a lot of mountainous regions which stretch for miles and miles.
A good place to hide out. -:)))






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                  BBC Look East On New Rendlesham Evidence

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 18:42:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:01:38 -0400
Subject: BBC Look East On New Rendlesham Evidence


Recently BBC Suffolk published material about the Rendlesham
Forest incident. The URL is:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/features/ufos/index.shtml

Especially interesting is a BBC Look East report on important
new evidence. A clip can be seen at

http://www.bc.co.uk/suffolk/realmedia/ufos/ufo.ram

Here are some quotations:

"For years the authorities said they knew nothing, but now a
secret file has been released which appears to suggest people in
the highest places knew something. An MoD letter from February
1981 refers to General Gabriel. His name has never been part of
the picture before, but it turns out General Gabriel was a
former member of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, an adviser to the
President."

"The secret file also reveals that the tracking station at
Mintagehead(?) in Norfolk had turned off its recording equipment
on the night in question. More evidence say the Rendlesham
experts of a cover-up."

"The suggestion is that one of our front-line radar
installations was faulty for 3 or 4 days during a whole week. I
just cannot accept that. Especially as this was during the cold
war."

You'll also find a BBC Radio Suffolk interview with forester
Richard Davies and some written material.


Stig







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                                   Hasbro?

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 12:20:49 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:02:49 -0400
Subject: Hasbro?


Is there any particular reason why www.abductions.com is owned
by Hasbro?


Nobody in particular







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                   Re: International UFO Petition - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:28:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:06:10 -0400
Subject: Re: International UFO Petition - Velez


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 06:02:34 +0000
 >Subject: Re: International UFO Petition

Hi Eleanor, hi All,

You wrote:

 >I'd like to point out that the International Petition To The
 >United Nations For UFO Information Disclosure is a campaign to
 >acknowledge the existence of UFOs and the true nature of their
 >activities on this planet.

That's not so Eleanor. The stated objective of the International
Petition is to (hopefully) coax more countries into opening up
their UFO files to public scrutiny. It is hoped that new/more
information will help us to get some of the answers to the UFO
question that continue to go unanswered and unexplained. The
petition is not worded or intended to endorse any particular
'belief' system regarding the existence (or not) of UFOs nor
does it ask member nations of the UN to speculate on the "true
nature" of any "alien activities" on this planet.

It is hoped that more countries will deem to make their own data
available to researchers and others who can then use it to
assess the situation based on a much broader foundation of data.
The petition does not 'assume' the origin, existence or purpose
of UFOs.

This is not 'that kind' of proactive effort.

 >UFO researchers and activists are now in the league of freedom
 >fighters, Raoul Wallenberg being a shining example, even though
 >comments on this List don't indicate this is understood.

 >Such crucial responsibility should not be taken lightly nor
 >should it be the target of ridicule.

Although I love the active support of the petition, I cringe
when it is 'associated' in any way with 'other causes' or
'individuals' that I am not familiar with. Endorse the
petition... please. But don't associate it in the mind of the
general public with any 'individuals' or 'cause'. That kind of
thing could easily backfire and end up hurting the petition
effort much more than it helps it.

I want the petition to succeed (or fail) in its stated purpose
on its own merits. Please don't be offended Eleanor. Lord knows
the petition can use all the friends it can get. And I do
appreciate all the public support that you and others have
given. (And hopefully will continue to give!)  I just want to be
real careful about 'who' and 'what' it may become associated
with. I hope you understand my concern.


Thanks,

John Velez







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                            'Out Of The Shadows'

From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 18:39:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:09:30 -0400
Subject: 'Out Of The Shadows'


Out Of The Shadows
by
Dr David Clarke & Andy Roberts
Piatkus Books

  is available from today (May 9th)

This fascinating book has had pre-publication articles in the
Observer, Daily Mail, Daily Express and has featured in a Radio
4 programme lifts the lid on the -real- story of the British
government investigations into UFOs from 1940 to the present
day.

Out of the Shadows is of equal interest to sceptics and
believers and is packed with all new material and many
reproductions of hitherto unseen documents Out of The Shadows is
available from the following sites:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0749922907/qid%3D1018980673/sr%3D1-15/r
ef%3Dsr%5F1%5F2%5F15/202-8903252-8687809

20% off!

or Piatkus' web site

http://www.piatkus.co.uk/display.cfm?type=book&isbn=0%207499%202290%207

20% off!

Here's another taste of some of the material to be found in Out
of the Shadows. For further information and to see the documents
themselves go to:

www.flyingsaucery.com


C.I.A. DOCUMENTS REVEAL PERMANENT BRITISH UFO PROJECT

Two new intelligence documents released under the US Freedom of
Information Act reveal how the British MoD set up a permanent
standing committee to investigate UFOs after the closure of the
'Flying Saucer Working Party.'

They were released with exemptions to Dr David Clarke and Andy
Roberts in June 2001 following a successful appeal under the
FOIA. Their contents are revealed in our book 'Out of the
Shadows. We wish to thank CIA historian Gerald Haines for
assistance in locating these records.

The documents, written by the CIA's Assistant Director of
Scientific Intelligence, Dr H. Marshall Chadwell, also set out
the "certain potential dangers which are related to these
sightings" at the height of Cold War tension. They spell out the
"problems of communications confusion...and the serious effects
of mass hysteria" that it was feared could be purposely induced
by an enemy "at a critical time by faked reports".

This interest in the potential use of UFOs for psychological
warfare is underlined by other intelligence reports from this
period, including the well known briefing by CIA Director Walter
B. Smith from 1952. These concerns re-emerged in the conclusions
and recommendations made by the CIA-sponsored Robertson Panel
early the following year.

Dr Chadwell was present in June 1951 at the meeting in London of
the MoD's Directorate of Scientific Intelligence (DSI) when the
Flying Saucer Working Party presented their final report on
'unidentified flying objects.'  The report debunked all
sightings as misidentifications, hoaxes and illusions and
recommended very strongly that no further investigations of
'mysterious aerial phenomena' be undertaken unless or until
solid material evidence was found.

Prime Minister Winston Churchill was briefed on the contents of
the report in July 1952 following the 'flap' of radar-visual
sightings over Washington D.C. that intensified intelligence
interest in UFOs.

In September 1952 further sightings were made by the crews of
NATO ships and planes participating in "Exercise Mainbrace"
which aimed to simulate a Soviet attack on western Europe. The
report which received the most publicity was the sighting of a
'flying saucer' by two RAF officers and three aircrew near
Coastal Command Shackleton Squadron HQ at Topcliffe in North
Yorkshire. According to Captain Ed Ruppelt, of the USAF's
Project Blue Book, it was these sightings which led the Royal
Air Force to "officially recognise the UFO."

In the memo "British Activity in the field of 'unidentified
flying objects'" Chadwell reveals that the MoD had "a standing
committee on flying saucers" set up "about 16 months ago", i.e.
after the Working Party had been disbanded. This new committee
was now the responsibility of Dr R.V. Jones, who replaced Dr
Bertie Blount as Director of Scientific Intelligence in
September 1952.

Chadwell notes that the group had concluded "that the
observations are not enemy aircraft and that none have been over
[Britain?]." Of interest are Chadwell's comments on what he
calls "the Yorkshire incident", the sightings made by RAF
aircrew during Exercise Mainbrace.

"In some RAF field, there was some sort of demonstration to
which high officials of the RAF in London had been invited," he
writes. "During the show, a 'perfect flying saucer' was seen by
these officials as well as RAF pilots. So many people saw it
that many articles appeared in the public press. This is
disturbing to Jones because he realizes that the creation of the
correction of public opinion is part of his responsibilities."

The memo also reveals that Dr R.V. Jones had expressed an
interest in seeing the famous movie film of UFOs taken by a US
Navy non- commissioned officer at Tremonton, Utah, in the summer
of 1952. The film had already been screened to a gathering of
intelligence officers at an air force base in Texas.

The British "standing committee" referred to by Chadwell was a
branch of the Air Ministry's Deputy Directorate of Intelligence
or D.D.I. (Tech). In 1952 the branch operated from the Hotel
Metropole on Northumberland Avenue, near Trafalgar Square. The
branch had five sections dedicated to the study "of the
technical aspects of air and missile weapon systems of the Sino-
Soviet bloc and all other foreign countries."

A senior air intelligence officer, Wing Commander Myles Formby,
led the section dedicated to the investigation and analysis of
UFO reports. From 952 to 1960 this branch was based in Room 800
in the Metropole Building.

Formby had played a leading role in the Flying Saucer Working
Party and had close links with the USAF's Air Technical
Intelligence Center. Following the Mainbrace sightings he was
spent three weeks in the USA working on the 'UFO problem' with
his opposite number at the Pentagon, USAF Colonel William 'Bill'
O. Farrior.

Interviewed in 2001 Formby told us: "I was the Chairman of the
Committee in 1952. It was the job of the  Committee to
investigate all reports of possible unidentified phenomena  and
to decide what should be done about them. As far as I was
concerned we never really got a  concrete report and I was
skeptical at the time and remain skeptical. We did get reports
from as far away as New Zealand. There were between four and 12
reports, all unsubstantiated. I also suspect that there were a
lot that 'never saw the light of day.' Although statements were
taken from those who had reported sightings I  took it 'with a
pinch of salt.'

"The report that we drew up was used as a reference document and
I spent about three weeks in America drawing up the report with
my counterpart who was a full Colonel in the USAF. I don't think
that the report was ever published but it was circulated at the
highest level and was used as a 'yard stick' for future action.
I would describe it as 'the X-Files'!"

*For the full story of the Flying Saucer Working Party and
D.D.I. (Tech)'s UFO investigations, see chapters 5 and 6 of 'Out
of the Shadows.'

This material is Copyright David Clarke & Andy Roberts 2002 and
may not be reproduced without permission or credit - that means
you!

www.flyingsaucery.com







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 8

              Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Deardorff

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:40:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:18:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Deardorff


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 00:09:34 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

Bruce made a lot of good points here, and capably exposed claims
against Ed Walters that don't stand up. Indeed, one needs to be
as skeptical about claims against a case with a lot of
supportive evidence as about the claims for it.

 >>Billy Meier? I don't understand, Bruce, how you can believe Ed
 >>Walters and not Billy Meier. The cases are very similar.

 >I guess you didn't read my article in IUR wa,y back when,
 >entitled 'Billy Is Not Ed'.

OK, Bruce, this does now cause the Billy Meier case to be raised
again, even if it is still considered politically incorrect.
Sorry!

Recall, the editor of IUR changed your title to "Ed yes; Billy no."

 >>Both include repeated 'contacts' with aliens/UFOs,

 >Yes, but Meier's contacts over many years were pleasant events
 >and resulted in 'spiritual contact' with many religious
 >overtones... and Meier supported himself, apparently, with the
 >donations of his followers ...

Your "religious overtones" here is sufficiently vague that it
might cause some readers, who don't have time to look into
matters for themselves, to think that Meier was exposed to a
religion, complete with rituals, creeds or whatever. Instead, he
learned a cosmic philosophy that included spiritual evolution
and reincarnation as well as meditation. Evidence supporting the
reality of reincarnation has been accumulating massively in the
past 30 years. See:

http://www.tjresearch.info/rebirth.htm

The difference between Ed as an abductee and Billy as a
contactee is indeed vast, yet the similarity in both being
singled out (though in radically different ways) for repeated
opportunities to take photos is striking. At least, by now,
thanks to the abduction phenomenon, we should be used to the
fact that UFO aliens can single out various persons for repeated
exposure to their presence and aims, however unpleasant that may
be for the experiencer. Logic dictates that if we finally learn
to accept the reality of repeated contacts when they are
unpleasant (abductions), we should not unthinkingly reject them
in rarer cases where they are benign or pleasant.

Regarding financial support, Ed, being a successful real estate
contractor, was well off. Billy, being a full time contactee
during 1975-on, needed support from others if he was to remain a
contactee and yet raise a family. Of course, a lot of jobs
wouldn't have been open to him with only one arm. Any such
comparison really needs to have the context spelled out.

 >Well, I certainly question Meier's move of the 'pendulum-like'
 >object/UFO that swings back and forth.

Bruce amplified on his IUR article on this topic at:

http://www.brumac.8k.com/Meier/MeierPendulum.html

in which he deduced, if it had been a model circling around
above a small tree, the tree would have been only about 3-ft
tall and some 55 ft away from the movie camera. A rather long
support pole, and lengthy lateral control strings, would then
have been necessary for 4 hoaxers to manipulate. Also, one
wonders how the side of the distant farm house would have been
visible along a line of sight passing underneath the lowest
branches of the hypothesized baby tree - i.e., passing through
the lowest 8 inches above the ground while the camera was on a
tripod. An example of the problem this produces is shown by a
photo in my website article that refutes Bruce's claims against
Meier:

http://www.tjresearch.info/BillyYes.htm

In light of all the first-hand witnesses who support Meier's
experiences, sightings and photos, it is advisable to actually
become aware of the evidence that may contradict the hoax
hypothesis.

 >>...
 >>How can anyone take the photo of Ed, clad only in a towel,
 >>shaking his fist at a hovering UFO, seriously?

 >If that were the only photo and if there were no consistent
 >story behind it, it would probably would have been rejected.....
 >The same thing could be said about any one of Ed's photos taken
 >out of context. But then, you could say the same about _any_ UFO
 >photo taken out of context.

This is good advice to keep in mind. The full context needs to
be considered, just as we complain that those from mainstream
science who have given out debunking statements against the UFO
phenomenon have failed to consider the accumulation of evidence,
both within individual cases and among large numbers of similar
cases.


Jim Deardorff







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   May > May 8

                          Filer's Files #19 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:23:25 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:23:16 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #19 - 2002


FILER'S FILES #19-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
May 8, 2002, Majorstar@AOL.COM.
Webmaster: Chuck Warren http://www.filersfiles.com.

TOP UFO SIGHTINGS: New York pencil, New Jersey daylight
triangle, Pennsylvania family sees UFO, Georgia green cigar,
Florida football, Alabama disc, Tennessee 90 degree turns, Ohio
disc, Indiana photos, Wisconsin UFO rendezvous, Illinois
fireball, Texas seven UFOs, Colorado lighted cylinder, New
Mexico speeding UFOs, California triangle, Washington photos,
Canada daylight disc, UK UFO explodes, China thousands see UFO
over capital, Roswell new revelations coming.

NEW YORK PENCIL SHAPED UFO

PINE BUSH - Life is changing in Pine Bush. Farms close and
condos go up. Schools grow and so do taxes. The city arrives in
the country. But there are constants, like tales of regular
visitors from far beyond New York City. Visitors from outer
space. At least, that's what people say. Early this month, John
Lewis returned from his job and checked on his kids, who were
playing. "What's that Nick?" Lewis asked his 5-year-old son,
pointing to something crawling across the seamless blue sky.
Lewis watched the object move slowly downward at a 45-degree
angle for about five minutes. Then he rushed for his video
camera. The UFO was pencil-shaped and black with a long tail.
There was not a glint of reflection from the sun. The son,
Nicolas thinks it was an asteroid. That same night, John's
mother was distracted by a flash of light while driving and
three cars pulled over to see the light move toward the condos.

Locals in this tiny hamlet at the northern tip of Orange County
have been seeing UFOs for decades. Ellen Crystall wrote a book
called "Silent Invasion," which helped cement Pine Bush's
reputation as the UFO capital of the East Coast. Groups parked
in fields at night to catch a glimpse of the strange lights.
There was talk of an underground alien base. The buzz eventually
died down. Life in Pine Bush went on, more concerned with
visitors from Long Island than from space. The police don't get
many trespassing calls on UFO-watchers anymore, says police
Chief Daniel McCann. Still, the new diner is called the Cup and
Saucer, with a UFO on its sign. Butch Hunt is the man to see in
Pine Bush about UFOs. He claims he saw one in the 1960s,and one
couple saw a UFO last November. "They had just moved," says
Hunt. UFO watchers haven't abandoned Pine Bush, either. They
come to the Harvest Inn fairly regularly, says manager Howard
Boyd. They are pleasant, not weird, he says. Locally, the United
Friends Observers Society still meets on the first Wednesday of
each month at Crawford Town Hall. Every time the Crawford police
call nearby Stewart Airport after a sighting, the officials said
they saw nothing, says McCann. Maybe the aliens moved, It is too
crowded' Thanks to Vincent Polise 2002 Orange County
Publications,reserved.nhegedus@th-record.com

NEW JERSEY DAYLIGHT TRIANGLE

WANAQUE -- The witness reports he was playing catch on March 31,
2002, when he saw something in the sky. He says, "I looked up,
and I saw a lot of yellow dots flying in the sky. I looked at it
for about thirty seconds and went inside at 2:00 PM, and got my
sisters. They both saw it and agree it was yellowish and
silverish. Each dot had all lights that looked about a quarter
inch wide. At one point they formed sort of like a L and a
flying V and they all remained together. They kept flashing on
and off like they were going in and out of dimensions as they
flew. They were flying very high. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com.

PENNSYLVANIA FAMILY MEMBERS SPOT A UFO

SINKING SPRING -- The witnesses report they were visiting
relatives and went outside for some fresh air on April 4, 2002,
about 7:15 PM, and saw a light to the west. Usually, there are
no stars in that part of the sky, so he went inside to get his
brother. The witness states, "When we got back outside, the
object moved and as we watched, it faded out. It then faded
back, and then out again. We started to get scared, so we went
back inside. When we came out again, it was rapidly moving off
to the southwest and just before we lost sight of it over a
hill, it took a sharp 45 degree dive and disappeared from sight.
it made no sound and had no apparent shape, but when viewed
through binoculars, it appeared to be long and flat like a
saucer. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director NUFORC
http://www.ufocenter.com

GEORGIA GREEN CIGAR

SUWANEE -- About 10:10 PM, I went onto my deck in the back of
house on April 11, 2002, to use the cell phone as sometimes I
can obtain better reception when outside the house. It had been
raining most of the day so the night was overcast. We back up to
the woods and are somewhat isolated. I was talking to our
friends when in the distance coming from the north I saw through
the trees a flash of light. I could not initially distinguish
the color as looking thru the trees dulled any color
recognition. Our house sits in a slight valley as we are in the
foot hills so there are many high and low areas. It came over
the tree line about 150 yards from where I was standing.
Something was traveling south putting out a bright green light
from a straw or a cigar object. The light came on every two or
three seconds directly over our house continuing south then out
of sight over another tree covered area. There were no engine
noises, and no other lights. This situation was so unusual that
I had to report it. As far as my background is concerned I am
presently a Vice President of an insurance company. Thanks to
Peter Davenport Director NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com

FLORIDA FOOTBALL SHAPED OBJECT

MARIANNA -- On April 4, 2002, an object shaped like an elongated
football was spotted at 3:30 PM. The witness states, "It
appeared to be chrome or silver with no windows and looked like
a football except narrower in the center. It was about 300 feet
in the air to the north of Interstate 10, moving east in front
of me, and I was actually moving faster at 75 mile an hour than
it was. It was moving strait eastward alongside the interstate.
There were many cars on the road at the time going in both
directions, but no one stopped to look.

ALABAMA DISK AND ORANGE LIGHTS

BIRMINGHAM -- The witness reports seeing a disk hovering at
about 20,000 feet in the air on April 3, 2002, at 8:36 PM, It
disappeared then re-appeared and with a flash it disappeared
again. The disk was not moving forward or backwards, just
hovering. Then it started to move a bit, and then zoomed away
and disappeared. I stood in the same place for a couple of
minutes hoping to see it again and sure enough I did, but this
time for about 5 seconds. It was hovering and then suddenly
there was a flash, and it was gone.

ADELAIDE -- The witness spotted six bright orange lights in
pyramid formation flying from NW heading to SE at 8:30 PM on
April 8, 2002. The six objects were bright orange and resembled
satellites as they move across the sky. These objects were in
formation. Three in each formation, creating a pyramid effect.
These exact same six were also spotted two Christmas nights ago,
however, they were in a different formation, that of Scorpio.
They moved strategically into the same pyramid effects as viewed
on the 4th April 2002. The witnesses are all of sound mind,
working well paid jobs from Correctional Services Officer to
Financial Planner. If anyone can explain what they were exactly,
as last time the UFO Society was unable to give me an
explanation and to this day I am dumbfounded as to what I have
seen. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director NUFORC
http://www.ufocenter.com

TENNESSEE FAST LIGHT MAKES UNBELIEVABLE 90 DEGREE TURNS

LYNNVILLE -- Please be advised that my husband and I witnessed
an unidentifed flying object on April 12, 2002, at approximately
8:40 PM over our home. The object appeared out of the west
moving at a blinding rate of speed. It made an abrupt 90 degree
turn toward the north then abruptly vanished. It reappeared and
made a 90 degree turn toward the west, vanished again,
reappeared and moved toward the east, vanished again, reappeared
and moved toward the north where it vanished over the horizon
miles away. The object was a bright white burn of light, no
other color was visable, no flashing light of any sort. Our
weather here tonight is low, dense cloud cover and this object
was well below the cloud cover and made absolutely no noise. I
am very familiar with aircraft, helicopters, and lightning. I
have a telescope and am very aware of stars, planets, comets
etc. This object was none of the these. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director NUFORC

INDIANA OBSERVATION WITH PICTURES

ELKHART Correction to FF #17. Erik Marshall writes, "I was
driving south west (about 35/40 mph) on US 33 past the K-mart
and Concord Mall north of Goshen, in an area called Dunlap and I
spotted a greenish light out of my drivers side wing mirror. My
camera was a Clever-cam digital camera and I was shooting out of
the front window of a Ford Explorer. I saw no other cars and
thought this was a train coming out of the Robert Young Rail
Yards and heading south towards Goshen. It became apparent that
this object was traveling much faster than a train and was
approaching the road. I pulled out my camera and snapped the two
pictures as it crossed over my Explorer, heading towards the
mall. It banked and rose out of sight. These two pictures were
taken as fast I as could work the button. The object is not in
the third frame as the top of the car was in the way. The object
traveled south and passed over me from the left rear to the
right front of my car. It was low about 100 feet high, but
climbing fast. I heard no engine noise but had a since of
immense power. It's hard to estimate speed but 400 mph would
seem right. The object was dark, but seemed to be delta shaped
with wings 15 to 20 feet long. With it being dark, and moving
fast and having nothing to compare it to in the sky, these are
just guesses. Erik Marshall ox_ohenry@yahoo.com

WISCONSIN UFO'S DAYLIGHT RENDEZVOUS

MUSKEGO -- The witness reports that on April 13, 2002, my wife
returned from the grocery store. I went outside to sneak upon
her. As I was approaching her I looked up and saw several
aircraft on approach to Mitchell Airfield. Immediately upon
fixing my eyes on those airplanes, I saw a small circle shaped
grayish colored object streak across the sky in a westerly
direction at 12:20 PM. I tried to get my wife to see but she
missed it. With my eyes fixed on this new object I walked around
the back of the cars to get a better look. This object was
flying in a straight line, and the only noise I heard was from
the airplane on approach. The UFO was smaller than either
airplane and was traveling quite fast without leaving a vapor
trail. It suddenly started to turn, but I didn't notice a
banking movement as with the airplanes. It started making
counter clockwise circles in a very small flight radius at high
speed. Then a second object, third and a forth appeared all
flying in counter clockwise circles stacked over the same
airspace separated by altitude. The objects were going in and
out of view as if they were reflecting off the sun, and then not
and then reflecting again for five minutes when my eyes became
strained from the sunlight. So I went inside and got the camera
but when I went back outside they were gone. There were no news
reports of any unusual flying objects. The weather was sunny,
unlimited visibility, 59 degrees F. Thanks to UFOWIsconsin.

ILLINOIS FIREBALL

LEMONT - The witness reports, "My buddies and I were out side on
the porch in the hot tub at 9:00 PM, on April 24, 2002, when two
huge fireballs floated above our back yard and then there left
going at about 100 mph. They were about 20 feet tall and 30 feet
wide. They seem to be talking to each other by making weird
sounds. They would turn to each other and then look back at us.
They left burn marks on the ground and toasted the grass. Thanks
to NUFORC.

TEXAS SPOTS SEVEN UFOs

SAN ANTONIO -- The witness says, "Between 9:30 to 9:50 PM in the
clear South Texas skies I spotted a total of 7, yes, SEVEN! --
separate flying objects on April 17, 2002." Five had steadily
flashing lights. The objects were moving far too quickly to be
airplanes. I saw the first object moving by itself very quickly
toward my direction and then it veered off in a northerly
direction. A few minutes later I spotted two more objects of
exactly the same quality and size moving very quickly but always
remaining the same distance apart. I called my roommate outside
and we both watched the two objects quite clearly for about 45
seconds. He went back inside when the objects disappeared behind
one of the few clouds in an otherwise unusually clear night sky.
The strange thing about these two objects was that they never
re-appeared on the other side of the cloud as a satellite or
airplane would have had to do at their rate of speed. We figure
it should have taken them no more than 10 or 15 seconds to re-
appear. Later, I spoke with one of the local TV weathermen who
had mentioned on his weathercast the next night that he had seen
these same two flying objects. He told me that he and his son
also had seen them disappear behind that single cloud and never
emerge on the other side! Finally, to my amazement, several
minutes later I spotted FOUR MORE of the lights traveling in a
different part of the sky. These four flew north and maintained
strict relative position to each other with regularly flashing
lights. This is the first time in my life I've seen anything
remotely like this. They traveled at very high speeds. Thanks to
Peter Davenport Director NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com

COLORADO LIGHTED CYLINDER

HIGHLANDS RANCH, DOUGLAS COUNTY -- The spectator left the
evening meeting on April 16, 2002,. and noticed a cylinder
shaped object immediately that was just floating in the sky at
8:45 PM. It was larger than an aircraft with running lights that
seemed to be whirring around the object. The lights were white
with some blue and pink in them. I considered, I was seeing a
plane at a strange angle that hid the wings and tail, but there
were several aircraft in the sky over Denver and this was very
different. The lights were larger and brighter than other
aircraft lights. The object was silent and started to move
straight down. When I first saw it it was about 40 degrees above
eye level, then it just floated straight down like it was going
to land somewhere. I lost sight of it behind some hills and
trees. The sighting lasted one to two minutes.

NEW MEXICO OBJECT SPEEDS ACROSS THE SKY AND STOPS

ALAMOGORDO -- Per our telephone conversation, here is the
sighting report, received from "A". On April 24, 2002, the
witness was east of Florida Avenue, north of Indian Wells in the
extreme northeast portion of the city at dusk; with the sun
setting above the outline of the Sacramento Mountains to the
east. The witness was sitting on her porch facing east, and she
suddenly observed a light over the mountains. Light was about
the size of a nickel held a foot in front of her face. She
watched the light for several minutes and the light would ascend
above the outline of the mountains and then descend below the
outline of the mountains. It also exhibited lateral movement in
that it would travel in a north-south direction, sometimes
behind the mountain outline and at other times above the
mountain line. Horizontal motion was very rapid in that the
object went from one extreme to the other in about a second.
Witness was four to five miles from mountain peaks and
horizontal distance travel was about one-half to three-quarters
of a mile. Sighting ended when the object suddenly rose and
"blinked" out of sight. Thanks to Wayne Mattson. Editor's Note:
Investigation will follow.

RIO RANCHO -- The witness reports, "It traveled across half the
sky in just three seconds, stopped, did a half circle and faded
to nothing on April 2, 2002." It looked like a satelite but
moved across the sky from north to south much faster, and
covered half the sky in three to four seconds at 8:50 PM
Suddenly, it stopped for about a second, then did a half circle
and then faded to nothing. I have never believed in UFO
sightings and have never witnessed anything like this. It made
the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I just hope someone
else saw it as well.

CALIFORNIA ORANGE/RED CRAFT OVAL

SAN BERNARDINO - The witness reports, "As my wife was getting
out of the back yard spa on March 31, 2002, she saw an
orange/red star like object fussing about. At that time I saw
the object and being a skeptic told her it was Jupiter, but I
was astonished at its brightness. I got my binoculars and I
turned to see the bright object drop or launch a shiny object
that faded quickly, followed by another less brilliant object.
Then the main object pulsed several times and vanished. I was
stunned and went in and called the police since their helicopter
was flying in the same field of view. I reported to them what I
had seen. They gave me a local MUFON phone number. The object
returned again from the west with more brightness so we gathered
ten neighbors to witness the second event. Nobody saw anything
like it before.

WASHINGTON UFO PHOTOS

SPOKANE -- A prominent lawyer, called to report he is taking
photographs of anomalous lights over the city almost nightly. I
have two photos of a circular object with yellow and red lights
that look similar to hamburger that are nearly identical. I
should mention that the photos I am sending you are culled from
over 1000 shots, the majority of which are simply blobs of
bright light. But in a few, I must just get the exposure, time
etc right, with what I feel are pretty fair results. The lights
fly erratically and maneuver differently than other aircraft. He
says, "On one occasion in early March, while driving home, I did
see a large strange object with my naked eye at twilight."
However, no camera, but I can tell you that it was not a plane -
not a helicopter - and not a blimp or a hot air balloon. It was
about three city buses long and about two city buses high. It
was shaped like a shoe box with rounded corners. It had three
glowing steady red lights horizontally across the center, and
flashing white lights around its parameter, kind of like a movie
marquee! Strangest damn thing I ever saw. It came down from East
to West, and floated slowly in the vicinity of some radio towers
on a hill known as "Tower Mou" Here is one of two photos, taken
sequentially from the same roll of film in late February. On
this one, there is some fog or haze appearing at the left which
makes me believe that this is not camera "shake" or "smear".
Also, these are the only two such photos out of over 1000. If
they appear as they do because I bumped the camera, wouldn't you
expect the "smearing" to occur more often? It hasn't. This photo
was taken at a shutter speed of about 1/4th to 1/8th of a
second. If you look closely, I believe that you can see faintly
see red and green lights in the light stream. Please see these
remarkable photos at http://www.filersfiles.com.

CANADA PHOTOS TAKEN OF UFO

HOUSTON, B C -- Brian Vike reports that on March 21, 2002,., a
bright white object with an orange glow around it was
photographed at about 7:00 PM. The witness reported that when he
and a friend were looking at new trucks at Sullivan Pontiac
which is along the business off Highway #16, a very bright white
object caught their eye in the field behind the dealership
hovering above an old barn. The guys pulled out their camera
using the "flash", and as soon as they started taking the
pictures the object rose up from it's stationary position and
moved slowly towards the two witnesses. At this point they were
freaking out and threw the camera down on the front seat, jumped
in the vehicle and took off very quickly. They had turned their
heads around to see if the object was still coming in their
direction but they told me it had disappeared. The object when
looking at it with the naked eye was as bright, or brighter than
the lights around him, meaning town lights. The object didn't
disappear as if it dropped slowly behind a mountain, but rather
just vanished. The fellows took the three pictures using the
flash on the camera. Due to this event taking place at night the
flash is detrimental and washes out the image. Thanks to Brian
Vike see photos at:
http://www.geocities.com/ufologia_canadiana/BC2002sightingspage3
.html

ENGLAND SPOTTERS SEE UFO EXPLODE

Bath -- The Bath Chronicle, published April 17, 2002, declares,
"In the same week that saw Star Wars playing at the ABC Beau
Nash Cinema, some Bath residents had a close encounter of a far
less fictional nature." According to the Bath and West Evening
Chronicle of the day, "An unidentified flying object moving from
Bristol towards Radstock was seen by at least ten people. Now
the Ministry of Defence is investigating the incident." And
what's more, witnesses saw the object break up and explode.
"Among people who saw the object was Wessex Newspapers librarian
Mr. Geoff Tarling, " who said, "It was like a huge rocket moving
across the sky and then the tail broke off into three pieces and
it disappeared," said Mr Tarling. "It looked as big as a fairly
large high flying aircraft. It was not moving fast enough to be
a meteorite or a shooting star." Other witnesses agreed with Mr
Tarling's account. "Mr Tyle and his wife saw an extremely large,
brilliant white light and traveling parallel to the ground. At
first I thought that it was a shooting star, but I've never seen
one that big before.'" A Defence Ministry spokesman said, 'We
are looking into it, as we always do when an object is seen near
military establishments. Otherwise we don't bother about UFOs.'"
Thanks to FARSHORES UFO NEWS -
www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/index.htm

CHINA --THOUSANDS WITNESS FOUR UFOs OVER CAPITAL

BEIJING -- Four yellow-colored spiral UFOs made a surprise
appearance over the capital of China, on April 22, 2002. The
sightings were reported in two newspapers, the Beijing Times and
the Shanghai Star. According to the newspaper reports, the four
UFOs were seen for just over an hour. The objects emitted beams
of bright yellow light. Chinese observers on the streets
estimated that the UFOs were "very high up," an estimated 10
kilometers(6 miles) above the earth. They hovered for a while in
pairs and then departed to the south. Lan Songzhu, a scientist
at the Xinglong observation station operated by the Astronomical
Observatory of Beijing said, "The observatory had received more
than 10,000 reports of UFO phenomena in the past hundred years,
but only five percent of these had no natural explanation." (See
the newspaper China Daily for April 25, 2002. Many thanks to
Chen Jilin for this news story and UFO roundup Vol.7, #r 18
April 30, 2002 Editor: Joseph Trainorhttp://ufoinfo.com/roundup/

ROSWELL VS THE CRITICS

Skywatch International Inc. Executive Director,, Bill Hamilton
reports he drove105 miles to the MUFON Orange County to hear the
presentation by Roswell researcher Don Schmitt. Don said,
"Almost fifty-five years and four explanations have past and
still the Roswell crash of 1947 remains one of the greatest
mysteries of all time. Within recent years there has been a
proliferation of anti-Roswell books that are not only debunking,
but resort to nothing less than pure character assassination. If
the critics have won the day why do they see the need to
continue the fight in light of their apparent victory? Or is it
all intended to stall for time as the remaining witnesses are
quickly passing on? In the summer of 1947, an interplanetary
craft of unknown origin crashed in the high desert region of
southeastern New Mexico during a severe thunder-and-lightning
storm near the small town of Corona. A local sheep rancher found
its strange debris - and something else - while riding his ranch
the following day. On the advice of friends, he drove seventy-
five miles to the town of Roswell to show pieces of the debris
to the media and civilian and military authorities. The Roswell
Daily Record, in a front-page headline article a few days later
released by Col. Blanchard, stated that a "flying saucer" had
been "captured" by the Army Air Force near Roswell - not Corona
- and, as a result, we have referred to a "Roswell Incident",
instead of a "Corona Incident", ever since. The elite 509th Bomb
Group based at Roswell Army Air Field was the only atomic strike
force in existence in the world in 1947, and had dropped the
atomic bombs on Japan to end World War II.

Whether by mistake or by intention, the Army Air Force first
declared that they had recovered a "flying saucer", and that
they were shipping it to "higher headquarters" for scrutiny.
Within hours they said that the 509th Command in Roswell and the
local rancher were wrong - that what they had found was nothing
more than a weather balloon and a tin-foil radar target. To
enforce this new version of the story, the Air Force resorted to
witness-tampering and intimidation: monetary rewards, new duty
assignments and security oaths to silence witnesses. Since then,
the Air Force has admitted that they lied back in 1947 with
their weather balloon story. They now say that the debris was
the remains of a rubber balloon and tin-foil radar target from a
then Top Secret project - Project Mogul - which was trying to
detect Soviet nuclear detonations by means of high-altitude,
balloon-borne, acoustic-sensors. A Top Secret project - yes, but
the balloon and radar targets were still the same as before, if
you follow that line of reasoning. Further, to combat persistent
stories of "little bodies" allegedly found along with the
debris, the Air Force held a press conference in June of 1997 to
declare that such stories stemmed from high altitude parachute
tests - using mannequins - that the Air Force conducted during
the late 1950's. Mental "time compression" of disparate events
by witnesses was said to be the culprit. To counter the Air
Force claims, accepted by the media, there is a plethora of
books making the case that it was indeed a UFO that crashed. The
problem is, however, that the various investigations by private
researchers have been uneven in their research methods, their
use of alleged documents and eyewitnesses and, as a result,
their respective scenarios and conclusions differ in many
respects. The public at large remains confused about the case.
Our mission, then, is to determine the true facts of Roswell. We
are not there yet, but we promise to spare no expense, to leave
no stone unturned and to follow every lead until the truth is
known. World War II veterans are expiring at the rate of 1,500
each day. Time is, therefore, of the essence. There were new
fascinating things learned weekly.

1) About 2-1/2 miles from the debris field, two alien bodies
were found as if they were blown out of the craft after an
explosion. These beings looked almost like miniature humans.
Eyewitness accounts show they had human-like eyes, ear shells,
but no hair on their bodies. These were NOT Grays. More bodies
(4?) were discovered near the crashed craft. Two were found
alive! 2) General Roger Ramey had subsequent involvement with
Project Bluebook and is shown in a press photo talking to
General Samford (this photo is cropped at
http://www.isso.org/inbox/ubd/case/1952.htm and General Ramey,
on left, has face cut out of picture) and the famous Captain
Ruppelt. Ramey was heard to remark that the most likely source
of the UFOs was interplanetary. 3) There are witnesses that
still won't talk. I talked to one who is still living in Orange
County and we hope to get a recorded statement from him. Once
all the Roswell observers die, it can all be swept under the
rug. We cannot let this happen. Thanks to: Bill Hamilton
Executive Director Skywatch International, Inc.
skywatcher22@hotmail.com.

EISENHOWER-MJ12, WHITE PEBBLE, PROJECT JEHOVAH,1953 DOCUMENT?

Robert Collins writes, "The below 2 page document was leaked to
Tim Cooper in 2000, that supports the Mj12 Executive Briefing
cover page document seen in the previous report. See JFK era
Mj12 Executive Briefing doc at:
http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/reports/mj12_62execbrief_cover_page
.htm. Note the "bleed through pages" on this 53 document as
well. If page 1 is turned upside down then one sees "CODE WORD
WHITE PEBBLE, MAJCOMSEC INTELLIGENCE EYES ONLY" clearly printed
on the "bleed through" part of the page. Written in the right
hand margin of this page are the words "Removed from DCI
personal file 1961. Approved by C.C. -E.R. E723." We don't know
who C.C. is but E.R. we believe means the Executive Registry and
E723 the code for the Roswell recovery. On page 2 we see the
mention of the MJ-12/Special Studies Project and Project JEHOVAH
headed by Albert Einstein. Eisenhower's signature block follows
but then at the bottom is the hand written note, "exempt from
declassification, found in Dulles security safe" with the
initials K.R. (A Ralph Renick was reported to be a supervisor in
the same office as K.R.) which are also seen on the bottom of
page 1 as well. Again, typos are used to track documents of this
type as the reader will note the typo "errors." From source
intelligence the AF's Project Aquarius was established in 1966
and at the same time NSA's Project Aquarius was established to
act as a cover. We don't know if "White Pebble" and "Jehovah"
were dropped by that time and replaced by other code words or
projects but, there was a "White Herring" reported to be a sub-
project under Aquarius. See:
http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/reports/mj12_eisenhower53.htm.

GEORGE A. FILER ROSWELL MUSEUM SPEAKER

On May 11, 2002, George Filer will be speaking at the Roswell
Museum at 7:00 PM, about his experience in chasing UFOs while in
the Air Force and about the crash at Fort Dix/McGuire AFB on
January 18, 1978. the so called Roswell of the East. This little
known case is very similar to the story at Roswell, NM. Don't
miss this presentation.

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO photographs available
and data on their propulsion systems by US Navy Commander Graham
Bethune. $10.00. Send check or money order to G. Filer 222
Jackson Road, Medford, New Jersey 08055. CD OF FILER'S FILES for
the last five years 1997 through 2001 is available for $25.00.
Both for $30.00.

THE NEW AIR VICTORY MUSEUM "UFO DISPLAY" needs your help with a
tax exempt donations or memorabilia. The museum is a 3 hour
drive for one-third of the population of the US.
http:www.airvictorymuseum.com.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and
comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send
your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically
grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please
state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story
confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND
REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards, George A. Filer









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   May > May 8

                        Re: Something I Saw - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:26:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Something I Saw - Tonnies


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:03:40 -0400
 >Subject: Something I Saw

 >Last night my brother-in-law and I saw something in the sky last
 >night that we couldn't identify. I'm hoping someone on the List
 >can tell us what it might have been.

<snip>

I know exactly what it was; it was a UFO!

Mac







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                      Re: Sean David Morton - Andersen

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:16:01 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:35:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Sean David Morton - Andersen


 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Sean David Morton

<snip>

 >I first met Sean David Morton years ago in a friend's apartment.
 >He had his arms around two young girls. He seemed like the king
 >rooster. He was working on a terrible script having to do with a
 >'Green Stone' found in the U.K.

Funny Bill, the first time I met Sean David Morton was when I
was the MC at Expo West in Los Angeles and he had his arm around
two women who he was taking to dinner with the other speakers.

I am the MC at the Pacific Northwest Conference on Memorial Day
Weekend here in Seattle and will be curious to see who he brings
along this time as he is one of the speakers. I personally don't
get 'it'. How can someone keep coming up with prophecies time
and time that do not happen? Amazingly in spite of all of this,
he has a huge following. I didn't get nor buy the 'Reed' story
either.

Maybe I need to be more gullible.


Kathleen Andersen
Seattle







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             Cydonian Imperative: 05-08-02 - Face Ancillary Data

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:50:46 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:05:25 -0400
Subject: Cydonian Imperative: 05-08-02 - Face Ancillary Data


The Cydonian Imperative
5-8-02

2001 "Face" Ancillary Data Finally Released
by Mac Tonnies

For images and links, see:
http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html


[image]

2002 THEMIS image of Face.

Newly released ancillary data from Malin Space Science Systems
allows definitive research on the controversial Mars Face to
proceed. Lan Fleming's "Stereographic Measurements of the
Elevations of the Mars Face Landform and Surroundings"
demonstrates that the photo of the Face recently acquired by the
Mars Odyssey is more accurate than the 2001 image in terms of
symmetry, despite lower resolution. This is significant, as it
places the "harelip" precisely in the middle of the Face mesa,
suggesting deliberate design. This confirms Mark Carlotto's
orthorectification of the 2001 image (discussed on page 26.)

Writes Fleming: "[The "harelip"] would be closer to the
centerline than it appears in the MSSS enhancements, which do
not take into account the parallax displacements of three-
  dimensional objects. This makes a subtle but important
difference in the impression of the symmetry of the landform."


-end-







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                         Re: Something I Saw - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 22:35:38 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:14:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Something I Saw - Hall


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Something I Saw

 >>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:03:40 -0400
 >>Subject: Something I Saw

 >>Last night my brother-in-law and I saw something in the sky last
 >>night that we couldn't identify. I'm hoping someone on the List
 >>can tell us what it might have been.

 ><snip>

 >I know exactly what it was; it was a UFO!

 >Mac


Mac,

If you use the term "UFO" this way, it becomes a very wishy-
washy concept.

Raw, uninvestigated reports like this need some other name,
though they popularly do get called UFOs. A report such as this
from a reputable person first needs to be investigated carefully
and thoroughly. It may very well turn out to be an IFO
(identified flying object), and if not, it then deserves to be
called a UFO (or as the U.S. Air Force used to call them an
"unknown").

The large majority of objects that initially appear to be
something strange (yet to be determined IFO/UFO) turn out to be
explainable.

One should not confuse raw reports (e.g., Filer's Files) with
thoroughly investigated reports that turn out not to have any
conventional explanation.

There is a very important difference.


- Dick









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                         Re: Something I Saw - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 18:48:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:17:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Something I Saw - Velez


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:03:40 -0400
 >Subject: Something I Saw

 >Last night my brother-in-law and I saw something in the sky last
 >night that we couldn't identify. I'm hoping someone on the List
 >can tell us what it might have been.

<snip>

 >Anyhow, both Richard and I are baffled. We're not claiming we
 >saw anything unexplainable. We just don't know what the
 >explanation is. Neither of us have ever seen anything remotely
 >like this. Nor have we heard of anything.

 >Can anyone on the List enlighten us? I'd be grateful.


Hi Greg,

Two mature, educated, intelligent men are baffled by something
they cannot identify circumnavigating the skies over New York.

Wasn't a plane... at least not like any plane either of you have
ever seen before.

Wasn't an advertising blimp... whose sign might explain the odd
movement between the lights you described; but then, why fly
it so high that no one on the ground could read it. And a 'sign'
wouldn't explain what you guys saw anyway.

And it wasn't quite like anything else you've ever seen in the
sky either.

Sounds to me like you've both seen an "unidentified" flying object.
Until it becomes "identified" it will remain a "UFO." I wonder how
Mr. Vocal Skeptic (brother-in-law) will take to being on the other
side of the fence.  (From 'skeptic' to a witness living with an open
question.)   ;)

Warmest regards, and it's nice to see you out here on the range!

John Velez








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   May > May 9

                 Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment

From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:24:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:26:55 -0400
Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment


Here we are 7 days later and we still have no comment about the
Reed UFO Fraud from anyone associated with it.

Jaime Maussan and his assistant Daniel Munoz made a few comments
on a recent radio program, but they have to explain anything.

How much longer will we have to wait to hear from those
involved? How about the so-called investigators that proclaimed
'Dr. Reed' (real name John Bradley Rutter) was indeed a doctor
and that his bogus evidence has been scientifically examined?

"Dr. Reed graduated from UCLA in June of 1980. Harold Chacon,
who has been accused of working at a gas station, is a biologist
and a tutor at the Catholic University of Puerto Rico. The
inside part of the link artifact is not made of rubber foam;
it's made of carbon nano-tubes."
    --Jaime Maussan, 05-May-02 on a Latin American radio program.

How long will we have to wait? There are no excuses at this
point. Though the e-mail message appearing here is going to
those listed below, I urge people on this List and elsewhere to
ask the following for answers:


DrReedLink@aol.com
(John Bradley Rutter (aka "Dr.Jonathan Reed")

Robert Aria (aka "Robert Raith")
rraithlink@attbi.com

Daniel Iaria (aka "Dante Aries")
dani@interimsolutions.org

Daniel McEvoy
dannyp1@ix.netcom.com

Jaime Maussan
jaimemaussan@ovnis.com.mx

Daniel Munoz
Ovnimexico1@aol.com

Shawn Atlanti
ufobks@webtv.net

While this is not a list of everyone with some direct connection
this UFO fraud, these are the prominent people associated with
it and promoting it.

Demand accountability.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"







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                    Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:27:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:28:41 -0400
Subject: Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud - Myers


 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud

 >>From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:32:02 -0700
 >>Subject: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud

<snip>

 >Well, Royce, should we hand him a plaque to hang on his wall?
 >Maybe it should read, "World's Greatest FlimFlam Man"!


Maybe, but he'd probably charge us to give it to him or would
tell us he predicted it happening - and with astonishing
accuracy to boot.

--Royce







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   May > May 9

                    McMinnville Gears Up For UFO Festival

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 03:58:14 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:30:45 -0400
Subject: McMinnville Gears Up For UFO Festival


Source: AP via the News-Register - McMinnville Oregon
May 7 2002

http://www.newsregister.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=3D150036

Visit the page to see Paul Trent's famous photograph, taken
outside his farmhouse near McMinnville on May 11, 1950.

Stig

***

McMinnville gears up for UFO Festival

Published: May 7, 2002

By PAT FORGEY Of the News-Register

**

The 1950s brought many changes to the country - the birth of
rock 'n' roll, big cars with lots of chrome and new fears about
communism and the H-bomb.

Oh, and flying saucers. It seemed as if everyone were seeing the
things. Across the country, reports of unidentified flying
objects took the country by storm.

True, some of the reports came from a certain class of people
whose word was easily dismissed. These days, we'd be seeing
those people on Jerry Springer.

Not all of the reports were so easily discredited. Some of the
sightings were made by police officers or military aviators. One
was made by a United Airlines pilot flying between Portland and
Boise.

Still, authorities and most citizens felt there was nothing of
substance to the reports.

The early reports tended to describe craft which were flat and
circular, earning the nickname "flying saucers." That term gave
way to the slightly more dignified and academic- sounding
"unidentified flying objects," or UFOs for short.

The early sightings were typically dismissed as optical
illusions, weather balloons or hoaxes. "A lot of effort has been
put into disproving UFO sightings," said Tim Hills, a historian
with the McMenamin brothers' brew-pub chain.

After World War II, it was discovered that pilots for both sides
had seen various types of flying objects they couldn't identify
or explain. Each side, however, thought it had merely stumbled
across some sort of still-secret weapon of the other side.

Then, outside McMinnville, farmer Paul Trent not only spotted
one of the mysterious disks in the air near his Ballston farm,
but managed to snap two pictures of it before it sped away. And
for a while, that was hot news.

Following publication by the Telephone-Register, predecessor to
the News-Register, the photos went out on the wire services and
were published across the country. A big spread in Life
magazine, then among the nation's most important media outlets,
helped touch off a nationwide surge of interest in UFOs.

Phil Bladine, then Telephone Register editor, was called on to
describe the incident repeatedly.

In one nationally broadcast interview, he agreed to send a copy
of the paper to anybody who sent in a dime, then the cost of a
single copy. He later acknowledged that he hadn't really thought
through the consequences of that promise, or understood the
depth of interest in flying saucers.

"I said, 'Sure,' figuring we might get a request for three or
four papers," he said. Instead, requests for copies flooded in,
sometimes even in the form of dimes taped to postcards.

The notes they wrote tipped Bladine to the depth of feeling in
the country about UFOs. "People said that they'd seen a flying
saucer, but didn't want to tell anyone because they were afraid
they'd be thought nuts," he said.

At the height of the frenzy, the Telephone-Register staff built
a flying saucer float to enter in an annual parade. Now, a new
UFO enthusiast, historian Hills of McMenamins, is trying to
recreate the frenzy - complete with a parade of its own.

Hills happened on the UFO story while researching the history of
the area for the opening of the Hotel Oregon, the historic
building in downtown McMinnville that the brothers renovated and
reopened a few years ago.

He presented his research to a team of McMenamins artists, who
incorporated it into the hotel's artwork, somewhat fancifully at
the time.

Evelyn Trent was feeding rabbits when she first spotted the
flying object, and ran for a camera. One of the paintings,
however, has a rabbit being beamed aboard a spaceship, a little
joke for those in the know.

Elsewhere, savvy visitors have spotted the date May 11, 1950,
marked on historic calendars. That's the date of the Trents'
sighting.

The photos weren't published until June, though, because the
unassuming couple didn't tell anyone about them until later.

Eventually, on a visit to town, they mentioned the two photos to
their banker, Ralph Wortman. He mentioned them to Bladine.

Bladine sent Bill Powell, the paper's news editor, out to
Ballston to try to obtain the photos.

The Trents couldn't find the pictures at first, but launched a
search of the house. "Finally they found them under the
davenport," Bladine said.

Bladine and Powell concluded from the way the events unfolded
and the Trents' reaction to it all that they were not publicity
seekers.

Further, they concluded from examining the photos that they were
probably genuine. There was certainly no indication to the
contrary.

The photos were published in the June 8, 1950, edition under the
headline, "At Long Last - Authentic Photographs of Flying
Saucer?"

Powell died recently. But before his death, he told the News-
Register that while he thought the photos were genuine, he
didn't know what to make of them.

Thus the question mark in the headline. "I was covering my butt
a little bit," he said.

In honor of the 50th anniversary of the UFO photos, Hills and
McMenamins prompted a resurgence of local interest. And they
plan to keep it going with annual commemorations.

The company brought Dr. Bruce Maccabee, a prominent UFO
researcher, to McMinnville for a seminar on the photos as part
of the 50th anniversary celebration. It also assembled others
who played a role in the case, including Bladine.

For the last two years, McMenamins has staged a series of
similar commemorative events. And many of its fellow downtown
merchants are jumping on board in a big way this year, including
the historic Mack Theater across the street.

**

=A9 1999-2002 News-Register Publishing Co. AP materials =A9
2002 Associated Press.







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                        Re: Sean David Morton - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 22:10:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:36:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Sean David Morton - Gates


 >From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:16:01 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Sean David Morton

 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: Re: Sean David Morton

 >>I first met Sean David Morton years ago in a friend's apartment.
 >>He had his arms around two young girls. He seemed like the king
 >>rooster. He was working on a terrible script having to do with a
 >>'Green Stone' found in the U.K.

 >Funny Bill, the first time I met Sean David Morton was when I
 >was the MC at Expo West in Los Angeles and he had his arm around
 >two women who he was taking to dinner with the other speakers.

 >I am the MC at the Pacific Northwest Conference on Memorial Day
 >Weekend here in Seattle and will be curious to see who he brings
 >along this time as he is one of the speakers. I personally don't
 >get 'it'. How can someone keep coming up with prophecies time
 >and time that do not happen? Amazingly in spite of all of this,
 >he has a huge following. I didn't get nor buy the 'Reed' story
 >either.

Many believers buy into the stories told by these types.
Sometimes I am surprised, but I shouldn't be. People generally
buy into the tales until it is readily obvious that it is bogus
or untrue.

In years gone by we had Shargell and his tales and stories from
so-called space scientist insiders, about how ET radio waves were
going to bathe the earth on Jan 27 1997 and a new day would
begin for humanity. You had Sheldon Needle and his endless date
settings on ET landings. You had the ET's going to land in the
Desert SW on April 24th 1997, and on and on.....

If you recall we had a UFO personality who told us stories from
sources who claimed ET's were going to land on a particular
mountain in Arizona on Dec 7th 2000 or something like that. The
fact that none of it happened, that none of it turned out to be
remotely correct, was all beside the point.

I wonder why people who organize these conferences invite these
guys who, shall we say, have problems with their backgrounds or
stories or whatever. Perhaps fans of Science Fiction and wild
stories that titilate the mind...


Cheers,

Robert







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                   UFO Watchers Snub Claims Of 'Paranoia'

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 04:23:35 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:38:09 -0400
Subject: UFO Watchers Snub Claims Of 'Paranoia'


Source: The Gloucester Citizen (UK), May 8, 2002,

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=
84240&command=displayContent&sourceNode=84239&contentPK=1638929

Stig

***

UFO WATCHERS SNUB CLAIMS OF 'PARANOIA'

10:30 - 08 May 2002

**

County UFO experts have discounted a new study which branded the
sighting of flying saucers as Cold War paranoia.

Members of a Gloucestershire group set up to monitor all things
extraterrestrial still believe we are "not alone".

A new book, Out of the Shadows, by David Clarke and Andy
Roberts, is published this week. It concludes the widespread
belief in UFOs, which began in the 1950s, should be seen as a
social phenomenon.

But members of the Circular Forum, Gloucestershire's UFO group,
are not happy about having their views dismissed as "cultural
mass hysteria".

Rob Cole, from Cheltenham, who set up the group in the early
1990s said: "You have to separate the 'little green men' from
UFOs as the two are not necessarily linked.

"UFO stands for "unidentified flying object" and people see
things in the sky that they can't identify every day. I am sure
many of those have a perfectly logical explanation but with all
the photo and video evidence you can't dismiss the unknown
straight away."

**

Copyright







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                    Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 23:16:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:40:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak


 >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:55:22 -500
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:40:19 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >Ed, Dave, Andrew- List and Readers,

 >I know Ed, Dave and others have put in some serious effort in
 >determining the dimensions of the debris in the FW photos. Part
 >of the effort has been determining a base dimension that all can
 >agree on. Unfortunately, I don't think that using any item in
 >the photos as a baseline will yield accurate results.

What makes you think I used only one item to scale the picture?
I used multiple items, among them being the radiator, window
frames, picture frame on the wall, baseboard, chairs, rug
stripes, and body proportions.

 >Look at the Ramey photo, and the radiator in the back-left of
 >the frame. Notice the distortion? The radiator appears to be
 >warped and leaning to the left, as does the frame of the window.
 >Yet the chair leg (next to Ramey's left knee) is perfectly
 >straight.

Most of this isn't due to camera distortion. The slanting is due
primarily to the normal effects of perspective. The ray tracer,
which produces no camera lens distortion, produces pictures in
which vertical lines are actually slanted _more_ than the actual
photos at the periphery of the photo. A pinhole camera, also
with no lens distortion, will likewise produce exactly the sort
of what you call "distortion", 'cept it ain't true "distortion."

The effect of the lens actually seems to _reduce_ the
perspective slant, most evident in the slight bowing of the rug
stripes at the extreme lower ends of the photos. I.e, the lens
seems to have some barrel distortion to it.

 >A wide- angle lens on the Speed Graphic camera that
 >Bond used caused this optical distortion.

No doubt there is some optical distortion, but you are dead
wrong to attribute the so-called leaning to the effects of the
lens. Perspective is the main culprit.

 >I am not conversant on the lenses used for a Speed Graphic,
 >but I would judge the focal length of the one Bond was using would be the
 >equivalent of a 28-30mm lens for a 35mm Camera.

According to Attach. 33 in the 1995 AF Roswell report, the most
common Speed Graphic focal lengths were 127 mm, 135 mm, and 150.
The calculated focal length based on the photoanalysis was 121
mm.

Since film dimension was 4" x 5" or 102mm x 127 mm, a standard
127 mm lens would have an f/stop of 1.0.

 >A wide-angle lens of this focal length will cause a considerable
 >amount of distortion of the apparent dimensions of the items in
 >question.

Unfortunately this is a typical Bruce Hutchinson loose language. Exactly
what do you mean by "a considerable amount of distortion?" Could you
quantitify this for us please _in detail_?

 >Using the radiator as a baseline, for example, would
 >be useless in determining the length of any of the struts.

The usual argument by proclamation. It is not "useless" and
there are other structures in the photos that can be used to
double-check accuracy of the scaling. I actually arrived quite
accurately at the dimensions of the radiator by first scaling
other objects in the photos, not the other way around.
Particularly useful were the chairs that are more centrally
located and less subject to any peripheral lens distortion.

When I started communicating with Andrew LaVoie, who had the
actual dimensions of the radiator in an old manual, it turned
out I was dead on regarding the radiator dimensions, without
knowing what they were beforehand.

This also means that any scaling errors regarding measuring of
the struts, also more centrally located like the chairs, is
going to be minimal. I estimate conservatively around +/- 3%.

As an example of how any lens distortion has only minimal effect
on the ability to scale objects in the photo, when a nominal rug
inter-stripe width is adopted (slightly more than 1 inch), an
image generated in the ray tracer traces over almost exactly
onto the stripes on the actual photo, getting "out of synch" by
less then one stripe over the entire width of the photo (about 5
feet in the foreground). That's off by less than 2% over the
width of the picture. (The stripes can then be used for very
accurate local scaling of objects close to visible rug stripes.)

Another way to put is that the inward bowing of the rug stripes
evident towards the lower corners of the photos, is on the order
of a quarter inch or less. If I were to lay a stick horizontally
at the bottom center of the photo out to the corner and use the
stripes to gauge it, I would be off in my measurement by roughly
.25 inches out of 2+ feet because of lens aberration, or about
1%. Hey, I can live with that.

The radiator, which Bruce Hutchinson claims to be useless in
accurately scaling anything else in the photo, proved very
useful in the final scaling of the rug stripes, since
perspective lines can be drawn along the stripes to the
radiator. Then it's a simple matter of counting the number of
stripes along the length of the radiator and dividing the length
by the number of stripes to arrive inches/stripe. Any lens
distortion will have almost zero effect on this calculation.

It is also possible to cross-check the scaling against other
objects in the room. E.g., the baseboard turns out to be 3.5"
wide, a very standard width; the picture frame is exactly 18"
wide.

But according to Hutchinson, there is so much (completely
unquantified him) "distortion" that its not even possible to get
remotely close to the true dimensions of various objects in the
photos. Piffle!

 >Adjusting for perspective will still not yield accurate results,
 >because the lens has grossly altered normal perspective.

Sez you, but you've done _zero_ work on this, haven't you? It's
just proclamation, not actual analysis.

Furthermore, what you perceive to be lens distortion is actually
mostly normal perspective at work, not perspective "grossly
altered" by the lens.

 >A perspective correction would only be valid if the photo had been
 >taken with a "normal" focal length (the equivalent of a 50-55mm
 >lens for a 35mm camera).

More argument by proclamation with nothing of substance to back
it up.

 >This can be demonstrated easily enough by scattering some
 >yardsticks in roughly the same pattern then taking a picture
 >with a 28mm lens.

Try a pinhole camera, which introduces no lens distortion, and
you'll still get what appears to be gross distortion of
peripheral angles in wide-angle views, only its just normal
perspective effects at work.

We don't normally notice these when we walk around, probably
partly because our vision is so poor in the periphery and also
partly because the world doesn't appear flat to us like a photo
but 3-dimensional. Our perceptual systems tends to turns things
into solid objects in space, not as a bunch of slanted lines in
a 2-D plane.

(As an example of this, look at the corner of a room. The lines
of the walls do not meet at right angles in the 2-D projections
on our retinas, yet we perceive the lines as meeting at right
angles in solid space.  We normally don't even notice the fact
that the line projections really aren't square.  If you close
one eye, to remove stereopsis, the non-right-angle meeting of
the lines is more apparent. Oddly enough, the non-squareness of
the lines appears much greater if you perceive the corner as not
being 3-D but a flat plane with 3-lines meeting at a point.)

But when you take a photo, all that extreme perspective slanting
gets compressed into a flat little image in the center of our
vision. Normal perspective "distortion" is really noticeable
then, and its easy to blame it entirely on the lens.

 >Has any effort been made to determine what focal length lens
 >Bond used, and/or to correct for the wide-angle lens distortion?
 >Input from Bruce Maccabee would be useful here.

First you should separate your obvious confusion between normal
perspective effects and actual lens distortion.


In practice any lens distortion affects accuracy of measurement
far less than you proclaim, rug stripe spacing accuracy over the
width of the photo being a case in point.

Bruce Hutchinson certainly has the right ask questions about
accuracy and methodology, including possible effects of optical
aberrations. What bothers me is his usual handwaving style of
argumentation. He's done no work on this and no real analysis.
He does nothing more than eyeball the photos and proclaim there
is horrific lens distortions there which make quantitative
analysis of debris impossible. Something is true because he
proclaims its true, even when it isn't.

What I think is really going on here is that I beat him up a few
months ago by saying my prelimary analysis indicated that the
debris in the photos could probably be fully accounted for by a
singular balloon and a singular radar target. That, in fact, is
exactly how Gen. Ramey and his minions described it in 1947, as
the remains of _a_ weather balloon and _a_ radar target. Weather
officer Irving Newton, who made an official ID for Ramey, also
made statements to that effect back in 1947. 80 weather stations
used that type of balloon, he was quoted as saying, and it could
have come from any one of them.

And when I called him up and asked him about it 3 years ago, he
was still of the definite opinion that the debris was from a
normal singular Rawin weather balloon. Although Newton is about
as much a Roswell debunker as Bruce Hutchinson, he didn't think
what he saw had anything to do with Mogul.

The problem for the religious Mogul faithful, like our esteemed
colleague Bruce Hutchinson, is that is not at all what you would
expect from the crash of a multi-balloon, multi-target Mogul
balloon train.

Hence Bruce's current tactic of trying to proclaim that nothing
can be measured accurately here at all. If we can't quantify the
amount of debris, then he can wave his hands some more and go
back to proclaiming that this is a Mogul.

Isn't debunking neat?


David Rudiak






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                     CI: 05-09-02 - Another Mound Enigma

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 00:24:49 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 02:34:46 -0400
Subject: CI: 05-09-02 - Another Mound Enigma


The Cydonian Imperative
5-9-02

Another Mound Enigma
by Mac Tonnies

For images and links, see:
http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html


[image]

Mound "P" shown next to hexagonal anomaly and shallow,
elliptical basin (far left).

A new Mars Global Surveyor image of the Cydonia "City" area
shows Mound "P" accompanied by its hexagonal "pedestal." Also
apparent is a unique shallow basin that extends from Mound "P's"
western side. The suspiciously building-like Mound "P," hexagon
and basin form a complex of mutually reinforcing anomaly.

[image]

Intriguing "crumpled" feature east of Mound "P" and
hexagon.

Also present (although not included in the new MGS image) is an
angular oddity I refer to as the "beercan," as it looks vaguely
like an aluminum can stamped flat on the Martian surface.

Since each of the above features has its own distinct
morphology, it's not likely they were formed by a single
geological process. Yet their proximity, similarity in size and
evident uniqueness demand a sensible explanation. I have little
doubt that if such a collection of disparate forms was
discovered on Earth's surface via remote sensing, archaeological
explanations would be forthcoming. Given the presence of the
demonstrably nonfractal Face only miles away (along with the D&M
Pyramid, Main City Pyramid, Fort, Cliff, etc.), a sound argument
can be made for a non-natural explanation for the "Mound 'P'
Complex."

The independent research community needs more high-resolution
images of the Cydonia region (with emphasis on architectural-
looking unknowns such as the Cliff and D&M Pyramid) in order to
advance the Artificiality Hypothesis and unravel its potential
implications.

-end-






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                               'X-Files' Ends

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:34:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 02:44:00 -0400
Subject: 'X-Files' Ends


Source: AP, May 8, 2002.

Stig

***

Strange, Wonderful 'X-Files' Ends

Story Filed: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:18 PM EDT

**

LOS ANGELES (AP) - C'mon over here and let us plant a big
farewell kiss on dark, droll, gory, sexy, devious, paranoid,
sly, subversive, baffling, marvelous you - 'The X-Files'.

The Fox drama about extraterrestrials, freakish terrestrial
villains and the FBI agents driven to pursue them is ending its
nine-year run, secure in its reputation as a television classic.

Chris Carter, its creator, dared to take the most orthodox of
genres, the cop show, and transform it into a convention-
busting, one-of-a-kind vehicle for thrilling and intelligent
storytelling.

'The Truth', the two-hour finale, airs 8-10 p.m. EDT Sunday, May
19. David Duchovny returns as Fox Mulder, who faces a murder
charge and military tribunal. Gillian Anderson co-stars as Dana
Scully.

Since its Sept. 10, 1993, premiere, 'The X-Files' has thrived on
dichotomy. The feds were the good guys (Mulder and Scully and a
few fellow FBI travelers) and the bad guys (just about everyone
else in power).

It treated the convoluted 'mythology' at its heart - Mulder's
quest to determine if his long-lost kid sister was kidnapped as
part of an alien-invasion plot - with intense solemnity and,
when it felt like it, tongue-in-cheek affection. Other episodes,
even those about murder and worse, often evinced a seriocomic
tone; 'The X-Files' was 'The Twilight Zone' with continuity and
more wicked wit.

The relationship between Mulder and Scully was sensuous and
soulful and yet chaste and intellectual, save for a few kisses,
a suggested one-night stand and a resulting baby, William.

(Says a bemused Carter: "It just tickles me that in this day and
age, when we have characters jumping into bed with each other at
the drop of a hat, that there was so much anticipation and so
much attention to what ultimately became a peck on the lips.")

The cultural reach and influence of 'The X-Files' outstripped
its popularity. The series couldn't equal the numbers of, say, a
top- rated '90s show like "Seinfeld," which at one point lured
nearly 40 million viewers. In 1997-98, at its peak, 'The X-
Files' drew 20 million viewers and ranked 19th.

But Duchovny and Anderson - and sometimes even Carter -
decorated magazine covers and became gossip column material, a
testament to their appeal and that of the series.

It earned a prestigious Peabody Award and received 61 Emmy
nominations during its run, winning a best dramatic actress
trophy for Anderson (but failing to nab a best drama award). The
series became a cash cow for the network and 20th Century Fox
through TV syndication, DVDs and a movie.

The catch phrases 'The truth is out there' and 'Trust no one'
took on lives of their own as 'The X-Files' became a cult
phenomenon with mainstream impact. And the use of the letter 'X'
was enigmatic enough to mean just about anything - especially
anything cool, conflictedly sexy and disturbing to the status
quo, the elements in which 'The X-Files' trafficked.

The drama's psyche was steeped in anti-authoritarianism and
alienation, with echoes of the Vietnam era in which the 45-year-
old Carter came of age. Those themes managed, however, to
resonate with younger as well as older viewers.

Then real-world events conspired to make 'The X-Files' feel out
of step in its final season.

In insecure, post-Sept. 11 America, citizens needed to have
confidence in government. And there were a host of dramas ready
to capitalize on the new zeitgeist, including ABC's 'Alias', in
which there's conspiracy aplenty but the CIA is on the right
side.

Carter, for the record, concedes only a brief moment when the
show may have seemed out of step with society. The themes of
'The X- Files' represent "the heart and soul of this country,"
he argues.

"I think there will always need to be and will always be built
into the government this need to police itself, and for the
public to be distrustful of authority generally and of putting
too much faith in it."

Carter also disagrees with critics who said the series had
faded, especially after Duchovny left last year and despite the
valiant efforts of cast additions Robert Patrick and Annabeth
Gish (as agents John Doggett and Monica Reyes) to fill the void.

"I think the numbers make people say that," said Carter,
referring to its 85th-place ranking for the season to date and a
weekly audience that's dwindled to less than 9 million.

A viewership decline is inevitable for most aging series, and
Carter admits to pondering the shift: "Your audience over that
time changes, the whole demographic changes. People's lives
change. I don't know what happened to that audience, but only a
portion of them came back this year.

"My sense is they felt something had been completed."

Did Carter harbor any grudge toward Duchovny for not sticking it
out? The actor who found stardom on 'The X-Files' has focused on
movies, including director Steven Soderbergh's upcoming 'Full
Frontal'.

"No, I understood. He turned 40 years old, he's got things he
wants to do. Eight years is a long time to be on a television
show. I wished him the best and still do. It's just nice to have
him back."

Patrick, who co-starred in 'Terminator 2: Judgment Day' and was
making his first foray into regular series work, was glad to
catch even a two-season piece of the 'X-Files'.

"The best part about it is that I know this is going to live on.
I feel like I got involved in something great. When you think
about the history of TV, you'll think about 'The X-Files', he
said.

And more cases and conspiracies are ahead. With the success of
the 1998 feature film, at least one more movie is planned.
Carter is ready to start work on the script and hopes to begin
filming as early as next summer.

'X-Philes', as fans became known, aren't the only target
audience.

"We're looking at the movies as stand-alones. They're not
necessarily going to have to deal with the mythology," he said.

Through the years, Carter maintained his goal was to provide
audiences with a first-rate thrill ride. He acknowledges 'The X-
Files' was also thought-provoking and politically minded.

One more thing, he adds: "It was tremendously romantic...
romantic in both the literary and more common sense in that it
was about two people who were tremendously tender and caring for
each other."

A show like that deserves a hearty goodbye smooch. And that's
the truth.

On the Net:

http://www.thexfiles.com/main--flash.html

------=3D

EDITOR'S NOTE - Lynn Elber can be reached at lelber@ap.org

Copyright =A9 2002 Associated Press Information Services, all rights
reserved.








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                   Re: International UFO Petition - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:46:10 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 02:46:12 -0400
Subject: Re: International UFO Petition - White


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:28:07 -0400
 >Subject: Re: International UFO Petition

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 06:02:34 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: International UFO Petition

 >Hi Eleanor, hi All,

 >You wrote:

 >>I'd like to point out that the International Petition To The
 >>United Nations For UFO Information Disclosure is a campaign to
 >>acknowledge the existence of UFOs and the true nature of their
 >>activities on this planet.

 >That's not so Eleanor. The stated objective of the International
 >Petition is to (hopefully) coax more countries into opening up
 >their UFO files to public scrutiny. It is hoped that new/more
 >information will help us to get some of the answers to the UFO
 >question that continue to go unanswered and unexplained. The
 >petition is not worded or intended to endorse any particular
 >'belief' system regarding the existence (or not) of UFOs nor
 >does it ask member nations of the UN to speculate on the "true
 >nature" of any "alien activities" on this planet.

 >It is hoped that more countries will deem to make their own data
 >available to researchers and others who can then use it to
 >assess the situation based on a much broader foundation of data.
 >The petition does not 'assume' the origin, existence or purpose
 >of UFOs.

 >This is not 'that kind' of proactive effort.

Well, I was referring to the ultimate goal. Battles are near
goals, winning the war is the ultimate goal. Sorry if I got it
wrong.

 >>UFO researchers and activists are now in the league of freedom
 >>fighters, Raoul Wallenberg being a shining example, even though
 >>comments on this List don't indicate this is understood.

 >>Such crucial responsibility should not be taken lightly nor
 >>should it be the target of ridicule.

 >Although I love the active support of the petition, I cringe
 >when it is 'associated' in any way with 'other causes' or
 >'individuals' that I am not familiar with. Endorse the
 >petition... please. But don't associate it in the mind of the
 >general public with any 'individuals' or 'cause'. That kind of
 >thing could easily backfire and end up hurting the petition
 >effort much more than it helps it.

I didn't mean to associate the petition with any other cause. I
don't see it as associated with anything other than getting the
truth out about UFOs.

My point is, that even though UFO researchers and activists are
entirely focussed on UFOs, their actual work is also performing
as a high brightness indicator of how much freedom we have, and
the disclosure phase is also performing as a fight to regain
such freedoms as seem to have been lost as a result of the
burgeoning national security state mentality, starting after WW
II.

I think UFO researchers and activists can (and should) take
justifiable pride in this (unintended) side effect of their
work, that's all.

Eleanor White







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                        National Media Sidestep UFOs

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:18:22 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 02:51:04 -0400
Subject: National Media Sidestep UFOs


Thanks to Patrick Huyghe, long-time science writer, and best
known in the UFO field for his articles on the subject in
Omni and for his book The Field Guide to Extraterrestrials,
along with his efforts as co-editor of The Anomalist.

Source: Florida Today, May 7, 2002.

http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/columnstoryA18534A.htm

Stig.

***

May 7, 5:15 PM

National media sidestep UFOs

Billy Cox
People

**

There was a big subculture buzz in Washington, D.C., a year ago
this week when a group called the Disclosure Project launched a
bid to end government secrecy surrounding unidentified flying
objects. The goal: Open congressional hearings. The hook was to
invite 20 witnesses, some bolstered with government documents,
with testimony so compelling the media couldn't possibly freeze
it out.

No doubt, some of the panelists who showed up at the National
Press Club offered detailed glimpses into the national- security
ramifications of the phenomenon. Retired Air Force Capt. Bob
Salas, for instance, revealed how UFOs had knocked 10 Minuteman
nukes off-line at their Strategic Air Command silos in Montana
in 1967. Former Federal Aviation Administration chief of
Accidents and Investigations John Callahan showcased photocopies
of incident reports seized by the CIA concerning a half-hour
jetliner/UFO encounter off Alaska in 1986.

The ensuing failure of the national media to respond came as no
surprise to a couple of journalists who've spent years
monitoring these dynamics. What most Americans fail to
understand, contend Terry Hansen and Patrick Huyghe, is that
when it comes to national security issues, the facade of big-
media outfits as combative public watchdogs has always been
fragile. Throw UFOs into the mix and that facade becomes a myth.

 From the World War II-era recruitment of Scripps-Howard
executive editor John Sorrels and publishing magnate John Knight
by the U.S. Office of Censorship to The New York Times' quashing
its own field reports about the 1954 CIA coup in Guatemala,
Hansen's The Missing Times: News Media Complicity in the UFO
Cover-up chronicles repeated patterns of sometimes avid
collusion with conventional covert operations. That such
duplicity should extend to UFOs shouldn't be terribly
surprising, and yet, it is.

Take, for instance, a correspondence discovered at the
Smithsonian Institution in 1997 between former members of the
CIA-sponsored Robertson Panel. Formed in 1953 to marginalize
UFOs after a vexing volume of reports began receiving media
attention, the panel recommended smearing witnesses as a way to
stanch the flow.

In 1966, shortly after a "CBS Reports" investigation on UFOs
portrayed witnesses as delusional or unreliable, Robertson
panelist Thorton Page wrote former group secretary Fred Durant
that he "helped organize the CBS TV show around the Robertson
Panel conclusions." The host of that show: Walter Cronkite, aka
The Most Trusted Man In America.

 From his home in Bainbridge Island, Wash., Hansen says formulaic
thinking still permeates the old-guard media. "The (Disclosure
Project) was a remarkable story, with men at a high level
breaking their security oaths," Hansen says. "Local and regional
media around the country treated it as a straightforward item,
but the national networks, PBS, they virtually ignored it.

"This story could be covered right now. '60 Minutes' could blow
the lid off it by interviewing retired airline pilots who aren't
afraid to talk about incidents and near-misses. But the major
media is waiting for the green light from the White House or the
Pentagon."

However, Patrick Huyghe, author of The Swamp Gas Times: My Two
Decades On The UFO Beat, says news-gatherers may eventually have
to confront the phenomenon, whether they want to or not. He
cites the July 15 UFO reports near Carteret, N.J., as a
potential scenario.

Shortly after midnight, FAA radar at nearby Newark International
Airport began tracking more than a dozen airborne lights that
appeared to fly in shifting formations. Motorists on the New
Jersey Turnpike pulled over to watch the air show; more than 100
witnesses were identified. A Freedom of Information Act request
by the National Institute for Discovery Science in Las Vegas
discovered none of the objects on the radar scopes had
transponders.

"Now, imagine if something like that had happened over a major
metropolitan area two months later, after 9/11, when we were all
on a heightened state of alert," says Huyghe from his home in
New York. "At least during the Cold War, the Soviets never
struck us on American soil. The terrorists have demonstrated
their capacity to do just that. When we have another Carteret-
type incident, can the media afford to throw it off and say,
'Oh, it's just UFOs'? I don't think so."

Even in that event, Hansen suspects the security apparatus would
remain intractable:

"It may just come down to the fact that they don't know what's
going on, that maybe this is happening and they can't do
anything about it. But that's an unacceptable public position
when you're trying to project an image of being in control. We
found out on Sept. 11 they're not."

*

Billy Cox's column runs every Wednesday. He can be reached at
242-3774, or Florida Today, P.O. Box 419000, Melbourne, FL
32941-9000.

**

Copyright =A9 2002 FLORIDA TODAY.








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                      Cordell Hull And The "Creatures"

From: William E. Jones <jonesw@battelle.org>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:32:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:10:57 -0400
Subject: Cordell Hull And The "Creatures"


This article appeared in the recent issue of the Center for UFO
Studies' publication, the International UFO Reporter. So far I
have seen no response to it on the Internet. Since our purpose
in publishing this information was to solicit help in finding
confirming evidence for the story, I am releasing it to the
readers of UFO UpDates. Confirmation most likely will be found
in the letters and diaries of the friends and colleagues of Mr.
Cordell Hull. Hopefully someone with knowledge of pre-World War
diplomacy will pick up on this and have ideas for further
research.

If MJ-12 documents start showing up with this story as a basis
for their content, I am going to be very skeptical of them. This
story presents a new "retrieval" account that, if true, should
have showed up in the so-called MJ-12 documents before this.


William E. Jones
CUFOS Board of Directors &
    MUFON State Director for Ohio

-----

Suggested Pre-World War II "Creature" Retrieval
by William E. Jones,
CUFOS Board of Directors and MUFON State Director for Ohio
and Eloise G. Watson, Family Genealogist

In early December of 1999 the Center of UFO Studies received the
following letter quoted here in its entirety.


November 29, 1999

To Whom It May Concern:

"Today I want to share some knowledge that has been, by request,
kept secret in our family since sometime in World War II. This
concerns something my father was shown by Cordell Hull, who was
Secretary of State under Franklin Roosevelt. Sumner Wells was
his Under-Secretary of State.  Hull was a cousin to my father.
My father was on some kind of advising committee, and made
several trips to Washington, D.C. in that capacity.

"My father, who was young, brilliant, and sound of mind, tells
[sic] this story to us because he didn't want the information to
be lost. One day when my father was in D.C. with Cordell,
Cordell swore him to secrecy and took him to a sub-basement in
the U.S. Capitol building, and showed him an amazing sight: (1)
Four large glass jars holding 4 creatures unknown to my father
or Cordell [and], (2) A wrecked round craft of some kind nearby.

"My father wanted my sister and I to make this information known
long after he and Cordell were dead, because he felt it was a
very important bit of information. We have researched your group
and feel it is the most reliable group in the country. We hope
that you will research and search this information.

"Please don't disregard this, because what I have written is
true. The jars with creatures in formaldehyde and the wrecked
craft are somewhere!

"Cordell said they were afraid they would start a panic if the
public found out about it."

Sincerely,

Lucile Andrew

Mrs. Andrew lives in Ashland, Ohio, which is much closer to
Columbus than Chicago. So the Center's Director, Dr. Mark
Rodeghier, forwarded a copy of the letter to Mr. Jones for
follow up. At the time the letter was received we did not know
the name of Mrs. Andrew's father and his background because, as
we were to discover, the family was concerned about their
reputation. After several telephone calls and two visits to
Ashland, Ohio the family became comfortable with releasing his
name and allowing this story to be told.

This story would be an interesting footnote in a UFO history
book if the people involved were more ordinary in background and
experience. But here we have a story that directly involves one
of the greatest U.S. statesmen of the 20th Century and a
conservative man of the cloth who would have absolutely no
apparent reason to tell a story such as this one if it weren't
true, especially at a time when stories of flying saucers and
their alien drivers had not yet become part of our culture.

Cordell Hull was born on October 2, 1871 in a log cabin in
Pickett County Tennessee, the third of five sons to a farmer and
subsequent lumber merchant, William Hull. Cordell grew up
wanting to be a lawyer. He went to a one-room elementary school
that his father built in Willow Grove, Tennessee. After
attending in succession the Montvale Academy in Celina,
Tennessee, the Normal School at Bowling Green, Kentucky, and the
National Normal University at Lebanon, Ohio, he received a law
degree in 1891 after completing a one-year course at Cumberland
University at Lebanon, Tennessee.

Not yet twenty years old, he started practicing law at Celina.
 From 1893 to 1897 he was a member of the Tennessee House of
Representatives. He served in the Spanish-American War as a
captain and in 1903 was appointed a judge to the Fifth Judicial
District. He held this position until 1907 when he was elected
to Congress until 1931, that period interrupted for two years
when he served as chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

Hull was elected U.S. Senator for the 1931-1937 term but he
resigned to become the Secretary of State under President
Franklin D. Roosevelt on March 4, 1933. He occupied this post
until 1944 when he resigned because of ill health. His tenure in
this post was the longest in American history. Prior to Hull's
resignation, President Roosevelt offered him the Vice Presidency
in Roosevelt's bid for re-election, but Hull declined because of
his health. Many historians believe that Hull could have been
elected President of the United States had Roosevelt not run for
a third and fourth term.

In 1945 the Norwegian Nobel Committee presented Cordell Hull the
1945 Nobel Prize for Peace in recognition of his life's work,
including his work in helping to establish good relationships
between the United States and the nations of the Western
Hemisphere, international trade agreements, and efforts in
establishing the United Nations. Too ill to personally receive
the award, Hull had his acceptance speech delivered by Lithgow
Osborne, the U.S. ambassador to Norway. In the acceptance, he
wrote: "Under the ominous shadow which the Second World War and
its attendant circumstances have cast on the world, peace has
become as essential to civilized existence as the air we breath
is to life itself. There is no greater responsibility resting
upon peoples and governments everywhere, than to make sure that
enduring peace will this time...at long last...be established
and maintained...The searing lesson of this latest war and the
promise of the United Nations Organization will be the
cornerstones of a new edifice of enduring peace and the
guideposts of a new era of human progress." These words still
ring true today.

Hull died July 23, 1955 and is interred in the National
Cathedral (Episcopal) in Washington, DC.

Turner Hamilton Holt was also born in Pickett County (then
Overton County) on March 4, 1894. He attended East Texas State
in 1913-14, Livingston Academy in 1922-26 earning a degree,
Milligan College in 1926-27 and the National Bible Institute in
1928-29. In 1929 he studied at Ashland College (now Ashland
University) in Ashland, Ohio and attained his under graduate
degree. From 1929 through 1938 he attended the Ashland
Theological Seminary, attaining a Doctor in Theology degree.

In his younger days, Turner Holt worked as a farmer, a
lumberjack, for a railroad, and sold books to libraries and
schools. He later held several church positions through the
years he was in college. From 1927 through 1945 (an important
period of time for this story) he was the minister at the
Shenandoah Christian Church in Greenwich, Ohio. He ministered to
a number of Church of Christ congregations in Ohio until he left
the ministry in 1959. He also served on many church boards and
was involved in numerous community organizations throughout his
life. He was known to be especially good at working with young
people. He wrote a book entitled Life's Convictions that gave
advice on how young people could grow into spiritually fulfilled
adults. He was, in the best sense of the term, a community
leader.

He married Vina May Clark in 1920. Their union produced three
daughters, Ana Lucile (born September 1921), Geneva Mareah (born
December 1922) and Margaret Allene (born November 1924).

Reverend Holt passed away on February 5, 1960 in University
Hospital in Columbus, Ohio.

These two men had a lot in common. They both worked their way
out of the back woods of Tennessee and were men of learning,
very well educated for their time. They spent their lives in
public service. Reverend Holt was related to Cordell through
Cordell's mother, Elizabeth (Riley) Hull. Holt was Hull's third
cousin twice removed. Family members alive today remember that
they spent time together during their large Tennessee family
reunions discussing the issues of the day. Because of their love
of learning and public service they were considered by the
family to be especially close.

The first interview of Lucile by Mr. Jones and Dr. Irena Scott
took place at her home in Ashland, Ohio on February 12, 2000.
The home is new and well kept. It was obvious upon entering the
front door that these people were not only reasonably well off,
but they were used to entertaining and were involved in
community affairs. As we got to know Lucile and her husband, who
is a retired executive of a large Ashland, Ohio company, this
assessment was proven to be true.

Lucile's original letter essentially tells the story as her
father told it to her when she was a teenager. Since Lucile was
born in 1921, this would have been within a year or so of the
event, probably in 1940 or 1941. Unfortunately, Lucile said that
she was too young to really pay much attention to what her
father told her. As it turned out however, her father also told
one of his other daughters, Allene. (Allene is the mother of
Eloise, the co-author of this story.)

At first Allene was reluctant to talk to us. She wasn't well at
the time, and that was given as the reason. Finally, on April 3,
2000 we [the authors] met both sisters together. Allene told
essentially the same story as her sister. Both assured us that
they remember the stories independently. Allene was told the
story by her father when she was in her early twenties when she
already had two young children to care for. This would have been
around 1950 when Eloise was three years old. As the family story
goes, when Allene's father started to tell the story, Eloise,
always the active youngster, jumped up in her mother's lap and
distracted her mother enough so that she never really asked her
father any meaningful follow up questions. Some time later
during a family gathering, she tried to ask her father some of
these questions, but he replied with something like, "Not now."
They never did get back to talking about the subject. Thus,
details of the story that Lucile didn't hear were forever lost
to Allene as well, and to history.

Reverend Holt described the entities in the glass jars as
"creatures." He never referred to them as "aliens" or
"extraterrestrials" as we would today. He used a term common for
his day. In fact, he never said where they came from. Lucile
stated that his experience happened in the "late 1930s,"
probably 1939. The material that was nearby the creatures was
described as "silver metallic."

Allene did remember her father saying that the creatures were
less than four feet tall. She also remembers him referring to
the material as being a "vehicle" that appeared to have been
taken apart and was "in pieces." He said the color of this
material wasn't a color that he had seen before, but for the
lack of a better word he used "silver."

As far as Lucile and Allene know, their father told no one else
this story. When their other sister was of an age to have been
told the story, she was living out of state and apparently an
opportunity for this never came up. Their mother was mostly
concerned about household issues and the rearing of their
children, so he apparently didn't feel it was necessary to tell
her. Both were told not to discuss the story with anyone else.
As the grandchildren grew up, at least two including Eloise,
were told. It was always a family secret that never was talked
about outside the family. Both daughters believe their father
told them so that the story would be told years later when it
might be time for it to come out. By telling this story, the
sisters feel that they are following their father's wishes.

Lucile told her son, who is the other of the two grandchildren
noted above, when he was older and mature enough to understand
the story. We contacted the son and he confirmed hearing the
story from his mother. He holds a Ph.D. in physics and has a
very responsible position in industry. Because of this, he
requested that his name not be used. When we asked his opinion
of the story, he replied that he believes his mother and aunt
are telling the story as they remember it. He thinks that
perhaps the memory of what was told them has changed with time
and may not reflect what really happened. Of course, if that is
true, their memories have changed in identical ways. We can't
discount the possibility that each of the sisters influenced the
other so that their memories now coincide. But, the sisters
don't think this happened. There is no way to prove this
conjecture either way. Lucile's son noted that if the story is
not remembered accurately he has no idea what the original story
might have been. Further, he did say that there is a chance that
the story is true. He doesn't discount the possibility.

The story doesn't give one much to check out, so a large part of
the effort was getting to know more about Reverend Turner
Hamilton Holt. The essentials of what we learned are noted
above. From talking to the sisters and others in the family, and
from reading what written resource material that we could find,
Reverend Holt was not the sort of person to make up such a wild
story to tell to his children. It wasn't in his character and it
certainly wasn't something that his conservative religion would
have condoned.

One independent fact that we could check was the part of the
story concerning the "sub-basement" of the U.S. Capitol
building. When I first read Lucile's letter this part of the
story rang with a discordant note. Storing something this
important in that building struck me as absurd. But as I thought
about it, it seemed to be more and more plausible. One has to
remember the times. Washington, D.C. was in its pre-World War II
state. The Pentagon didn't exist and those military bases and
facilities that now can be found all around the area didn't
exist or were much less secure than they are today. Perhaps the
Capitol would have been a safe and secure place back then. I
decided to check this aspect of the story out.

There is an Office of the Architect of the Capitol. I called to
determine if there is or ever was a "sub-basement" in the
building, certainly back in the late 1930s. After some
discussion with someone I took to be a secretary, I was
transferred to Barbara A. Wolamin. She described herself as "the
curator." I told her the story, as I knew it from Lucile's
letter. She chuckled a bit and said it reminded her of the
Capitol ghost stories that are often told. She volunteered that
she had never heard about these creatures being stored at the
Capitol, but she did confirm there was a sub-basement back then.
She said that the building had been significantly changed over
the years and this area is now the basement. Back then it had
been divided into rooms that were used for storage. Thus, in a
small way, part of Reverend Holt's story checked out.

I decided that the other way to check out this story would be to
learn more about Cordell Hull. There is a chance that somewhere
in his papers and correspondence he had written something about
this obviously important knowledge. It probably wouldn't be a
direct reference to what he knew, but there might be something
stated indirectly or indicative of an inordinate interest in the
possibility of extraterrestrial life, or after say 1947, a
collection of newspaper articles about flying saucers.

After Cordell Hull left government service he wrote his memoirs
in an 1804 page two-volume book set. No reference, direct or
indirect, to this story appeared in these pages. His papers are
archived at the Library of Congress. The collection is made up
of over 70,000 items packed in 265 boxes. John Earl Haynes has
"custodial responsibility" over this collection for the Library.
I told Mr. Haynes about the story I was researching and related
my idea that Hull might have at least indirectly written
something about it in his papers. He replied that he had never
run across anything like that, but noted, "It is possible that
it was there and I missed it because I wasn't looking for
something like that."

I did obtain through inter-library loan from the Library of
Congress a copy of microfilm reels numbered 38 and 39 that
contained Hull's "desk diary" for the years 1938 through 1942. I
wanted to see if there was an entry of an appointment for
Reverend Holt in the diary. I found none.

I was referred to a Dr. Jonathan Utley who now lives in Chicago.
He is a retired professor from the University of Tennessee who
has been working on a book about Cordell Hull for years. He was
needless-to-say skeptical of the story, but he did say that
probably the only place I might find reference to such a story
would be in the papers or diaries of Hull's friends and
colleagues. He told me that Hull was a workaholic. His work was
everything to him. All of his papers concern his various jobs.
Hull never left a record about his personal life, which was
meager anyway. He married late and had no children. He had few
real non-work related friends. If he entertained privately, he
usually did so in restaurants, even though he had a cook and a
housekeeper. Dr. Utley noted that everything he learned about
Hull's personal life was from the diaries and letters of Hull's
friends and colleagues.

Dr. Utley thought that it would be unlikely that Hull would have
had such easy access to the Capitol Building as Secretary of
State because he was a member of the Executive branch of
government. Further he rarely went over there to testify,
usually sending subordinates to do that task. This sounds like a
reasonable critique, but Hull seems to contradict this in his
memoirs. On page 215 he writes, "I also made it a practice to
appear personally before Congressional committees or important
group conferences, which I did scores of times during my stay at
the State Department." Hull's ability to access the Capitol
Building is clearly an issue that at this point. However, given
Hull's important position within the government and his
relationship with FDR, even if the knowledge of these creatures
was closely held, Hull would clearly have been a person who
would have been knowledgeable of the secret.

Dr. Utley also pointed out that Hull was not particularly close
to his extended family. Taking a cousin into his confidence
would have been unusual. He was a very cautious man. He was the
keeper of the family assets, giving out funds to his brothers
when they needed them. That was the role with his immediate
family. If a cousin had visited Hull he would have probably
entertained the visitor at a restaurant where most of his
limited entertaining was done. However, we have the observations
of Reverend Holt's daughters who remember Hull and Holt as being
particularly close within the family. So it is still probable
that for purely intellectual reasons, Hull may have wanted his
friend and relative to be aware of something quite
extraordinary.

Three other potential sources of information concerning Hull
were contacted for assistance with our research.

The Cordell Hull Foundation for International Education in New
York City has no information about Hull's life that could help
us.

The Cordell Hull Birthplace Museum near Byrdstown, Tennessee has
copies of some of his papers. The museum's curator, Ms. Norma
Kerbaugh, did look through their collection for us, but found
nothing of interest.

Tennessee Technological University of Cookeville, Tennessee has
several boxes of papers, letters, photographs, articles,
scrapbooks and speeches from and about Hull. According to Mr.
Mancil Johnson, Library Archivist, nothing was found that would
relate to our story. Much of their material was obtained from
the Cordell Hull Birthplace Museum.

A number of other libraries and archives were contacted to see
if they could help, including the FDR Library in Hyde Park, New
York, the Roosevelt University - Center for New Deal Studies in
Chicago, the Bowling Green State University, Center for Archival
Collections, in Bowling Green, Ohio, the Holy Spirit Library at
Cabrini College in Radnor, Pennsylvania and the Little White
House Historic Site in Darien, Georgia. At least through
telephone contacts, none seemed too excited about getting
involved in helping establish the possible truthfulness of this
story. Perhaps this is understandable.

There is an ironic sidebar story that should be told here.
Reverend Holt attended the Washington Work Shop on World Order
that was held on March 13 to 16, 1950 at the Burlington Hotel on
Thomas Circle, the State Department, the Ninth Street Church and
other venues around Washington. A number of religious and
governmental leaders spoke at this conference on subjects
ranging from Christian Faith and World Citizenship, American
Foreign Policy and the Economic Needs of the World, and American
Foreign Policy and the Problems of Human Rights and Fundamental
Freedoms. On March 14 in a "Round Table on Atomic Energy, Its
Uses and Controls" there appeared a personage who would later
become well known to the UFO research community, Edward U.
Condon. At the time he was Director of the Bureau of Standards.
Another soon to be historic figure appeared in a "Round Table on
Civil Liberties and National Security" on March 15. That person
was Richard M. Nixon, then a Congressman from California and
member of the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

We are publishing this report of a clearly incomplete
investigation at this time because we hope to encourage others
to look into the story. If it is true, and we have no reason to
think it is a hoax at least, then somewhere out there in a
library or an archive there may be a writing - a diary entry, a
letter, a note on an appointment calendar, something - that will
provide additional support. From there other information might
be found that will help us better document the truth about this
extraordinary story.

If we believe that four alien bodies and other world technology
were retrieved prior to World War II, what would that do to our
interpretation of what we know about the U.S. Government's
involvement in UFO research? Assuming that the Roswell story
involved another alien related event, how should this knowledge
affect our interpretation of the government's response to
Roswell, or even its response to the development of the post-
1947 flying saucer/UFO mystery itself? One would certainly hope
that the prior knowledge would have made the government at least
somewhat ready for an event like Roswell and that the Roswell
retrieval was more efficient because of that. What if we learn
that this pre-World War II alien technology wasn't retrieved in
the United States but came from somewhere else in Europe or the
Far East, transferred to the United States for protection until
the war that most knew was coming was over? What if we learn
that this technology was given back to France or China or Russia
after the war? How would this retransfer of technology change
our view of history? The possibilities are numerous. This is a
story that truly deserves further investigation.

Recognition: The authors would like to recognize the efforts of
Dr. Irena Scott of Delaware County Ohio for her assistance in
the early stages of the investigation of this story. Dr. Scott
is a member of the Board of Directors of the Mutual UFO Network
and has investigated UFO sighting reports in Ohio and else where
for many years. She has written two well-received books on the
subject.






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                    Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 07:59:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:16:18 -0400
Subject: Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today


Errol and Listers:

Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today for this very informative article:

http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/columnstoryA18534A.htm

In it, Cox quotes the work of Terry Hansen, author of 'Missing
Times', - a must read - and Patrick Huyghe of 'The Anomalist',

http://www.anomalist.com

and author of 'The Swamp Gas Times'.

I find it most ironic that the very thoughts and opinions of
'debunkologists' could be the direct result of the government's
manipulation of mainstream media, that started over 50 years
ago and has crossed generations!

What is it called when a group or goverment takes direct actions
- covertly - to control public opinion?


Regards,

Frank Warren








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   May > May 10

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 19

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:01:58 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:23:52 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 19


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

   UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 7, Number 19
May 7, 2002
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


MYSTERY FIREBALL CRASHES
IN EASTERN FRANCE

"Last Saturday (April 6, 2002) at around 10:40 p.m., a resident
of Marsanny-le-Bois, looking out of a window at his house, saw a
falling fireball which disappeared. It seems that it crashed
into the ground and without making any noise, without an
explosion, according to the eyewitness."

"The 'object' fell near Flacey, in the department of Cote d'Or,"
northwest of Dijon in eastern France, "and, to date, has only
the one eyewitness. Searches were quickly conducted by
firefighters and gendarmes (policemen) around a very large
perimeter encompassing both Viovigne and Flacey."

"At the same time, a helicopter flew over the area to assist in
the search but found nothing."

"A statement from the Armee de l'Air (French Air Force) base
nearby revealed that no aircraft were in the vicinity at the
time of the incident. Neither were any unusual meteorological
phenomena noted. A fuller investigation will be initiated to
determine the cause of this phenomenon." (See the French
newspaper Journal de Saone et Loire for April 8, 2002, "A
mysterious fireball in the sky." Merci beaucoup a Michel Granger
pour cette article de journal.)

(Editor's Note: The "fireball" in eastern France occurred the
night before the mass UFO sighting in southern Germany in early
April 2002. See UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 15 for April 9,
2002, "Mysterious lights dazzle thousands in Germany," page 1.)


THREE CATTLE MUTILATIONS REPORTED IN ARGENTINA

"A few days ago, strange lights appeared in the night skies over
Salliquelo, in Buenos Aires province, and in the morning cattle
ranchers of the area found three mutilated cows showing signs of
having undergone a surgical intervention with unusual
instruments."

"A veterinarian told local media that 'the incisions are strange
ones in which some sort of heating element appears to have been
used.'"

"The news was broadcast at the national level Saturday," April
27, 2002, "through Cronica TV which took images from the local
cable access channel, showing images of the (mutilated) animals
and a technician named Daniel who analyzed one of the cases,
providing details about the strange event."

"According to the televised report, the animals were found by
the owners of rural properties near Salliquelo, a small city
located 128 kilometers (80 miles) east of the city of Anchorena,
after 'strange lights' were reported in the heavens over the
area. Three bovine deaths were attested to by local police."

"The veterinarian interviewed claimed that what he saw in his
inspection of the carcasses was abnormal. 'They present strange
cuts, as though resulting from an intense heat source. The skin
is burned along the edges of the cuts, and there is an absence
of blood in veins, muscles, and ligaments. (The cadaver) is
simply dessicated,' he said."

The technician "Daniel told the Salliquelo cable access channel
that the unusual cuts can be seen in the animals' bodies and
heads. 'One of them shows a perfectly straight cut on one
mandible. Furthermore, its tongue is missing, along with the
rest of the alimentary tract: larynx, pharynx and saliva glands.
The outer ear is completely missing. Another curious incision
appears on the body (ribs and abdomen--S.C.) which is teardrop-
shaped through which the genitalia were extracted,' he
explained."

"Another detail offered by the professional, who performed a
thorough inspection of one of the affected animals, was the
following: 'It's as though you were cutting a piece of paper
with a hot wire--the edges become dry, scorched and thinner.
Furthermore, all traces of blood vanished. We only find some
coagulated remains in the heart.'"

"'It is a strange circumstance. There are no signs that the
animal put up a fight, nor is there any evidence of scorched
pastureland. I'm not saying that this is the work of alien
beings, but it's a strange circumstance nonetheless. Even the
other animals refuse to come close to the dead ones, and
curiosity is a characteristic element of bovines,' he
concluded."

Salliquelo is about 225 kilometers (135 miles) southwest of
Buenos Aires, the national capital. (See the Argentinian
newspaper La Arena of La Pampa for April 29, 2002, "Strange case
in Salliquelo: mutilated animals appear in wake of nocturnal
lights." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, autor de los libros
Chupacabras and Other Mysteries y Forbidden Mexico, y Gloria
Coluchi para eso articulo de diario.)


NEW UFO SIGHTING OVER CERRO AVILA IN CARACAS

A glowing UFO was seen over Cerro Avila (hill) in Caracas, the
capital of Venezuela, on two consecutive nights last week.

On Monday evening, April 29, 2002, "the eyewitness and his son
observed a strange light with a gyrating motion over Cerro Avila
in the city of Caracas. According to the report, sent by
investigator Martha Rosenthal, the strange light was seen on two
consecutive evenings."

On the second occasion, Tuesday, April 30, 2002, "it was seen at
a lower altitude than the previous night." The witness also
brought a camera the second evening and "reportedly has a photo
of the second sighting."

During its Tuesday night performance, the UFO "continued its
gyrating movement and also brightened and dimmed repeatedly,
changing the intensity of the illumination." (See NotiOVNI for
May 5, 2002. Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz y Martha Rosenthal
para eso caso.)


MORE UFOs REPORTED IN CANADA'S FAR WEST

Following a month of relative quiet, UFOs are again on the prowl
in the northern half of Canada's British Columbia province.

On Thursday, March 21, 2002, at 7 p.m., "the witness reported
that he and his friend were looking at new trucks at Sullivan
Pontiac in Houston, B.C.(population 3,934)," a small town
located 188 miles (305 kilometers) west of Prince George. The
dealership "is along the business frontage road just off
Provincial Highway 16," and the men were looking at the new
trucks "when a bright white object caught their eye."

"The object was in a field behind the car dealership, to the
southwest, 'at some distance away from us both.' The object was
hovering above an old barn, which is in the field."

"The guys pulled out their camera, using the flash, and as soon
as they started taking pictures, the object rose from its
stationary position and moved slowly towards the two witnesses.
At this point, they were freaking out and threw the camera down
on the front seat and took off very quickly. They turned their
heads around to see if the object was still coming," but the UFO
had disappeared.

A month later, on Friday, April 26, 2002, a man who had just
moved from Kitwanga, B.C. to Terrace, B.C., a town on the Skeena
River 90 miles (150 kilometers) east of Prince Rupert, "was
unpacking after his move and stopped for a cigarette" and "saw a
strange object very close to his location. He watched the object
move from east to west, at a very low level and close to him."

The witness "estimated the size of the object to be one-quarter
that of the full moon and as bright if not brighter. The object
would become dim, then repeat in brightness, and then dim. The
fellow also said this object would move very quickly, only to
come to a complete dead stop, then it would disappear."

On Saturday, April 27, 2002, "the light returned, again at a low
level, and he watched as the light dropped another pale green
light. This light vanished before hitting the ground." The
witness said it looked as if there was a ring of these pale
green lights on the underside of the UFO.

On Sunday, April 28, 2002, "he had witnesses with him, just in
case whatever it was showed up again. Sure enough, they all
started watching this light, plus other strange objects. The
sighting did not last for any length of time--approximately five
to ten seconds before disappearing. At times the object would
stop and blink several times before moving on."

On Monday, April 29, 2002, "the witness said, 'The object slowly
rolled over, exposing some kind of shape to it. He said it was
definitely saucer-shaped." (Many thanks to British Columbia
ufologist Brian Vike for these reports.)


UFOs TURN UP IN OTTAWA AND TORONTO, CANADA

On Saturday, April 17, 2002, at 12:30 p.m., the male witness was
on his lunch break at his workplace near the intersection of
Montreal and St. Laurent Roads in Ottawa, the capital of Canada,
when he spotted a strange object approaching.

"I was on my lunch break at 12:30 p.m.," he reported, "I looked
up to see what looked like a small airplane coming from the
northeast. As it got closer, I noticed that it was oval-shaped
and changing colour from black to silver. It was rolling or
rocking side to side as it changed colour. It was travelling
about 300 feet (90 meters) high as it flew behind a cloud and
disappeared." (Many thanks to Brian Vike for this report.)

On Friday, April 26, 2002, "the time was around 6:45 a.m., and I
was coming to work in a taxi," the witness reported, "I work in
the Dufferin and Steeles area of Toronto," which is Canada's
largest city. "As we were coming to--I believe the park's name
is--G. Ross Lord Park on Dufferin, I was looking out the (taxi)
window when I noticed it. It was just sitting in the clouds and
not moving--the grey-looking object."

"I knew it wasn't an airplane or a weather balloon and, to be
honest, I wasn't sure what it was. I just kept looking at it,
hoping to see it move. But it didn't. It looked like grey metal,
and it looked like it might have been square in shape. But it
was hard to tell in the clouds. It didn't move--it just sat
there. I lost sight of it when I turned my head for a second.
When I turned back, it was gone." (Many thanks to Sue Darroch of
Para- Researchers of Ontario for this report.)


OREGON WOMAN SEES AN UNUSUAL LIGHT DISPLAY

"I walked out the front door of my daughter's home" in
Warrenton, Oregon (population 4,096) on Saturday, April 13, 2002
at 10 p.m., Barbara A. reports, "when a bright flash caught my
attention. It was almost directly overhead. I waited a moment
and saw another flash of slightly less intensity a short
distance from the first. A few seconds later, there was another
bright flash, and the object disappeared."

"Whatever it was, it was at an extremely high altitude, similar
to a satellite. I watched for a few minutes longer, but I saw
nothing further. I remember reading a similar report some time
ago where a man said it looked like whatever it was had left the
earth's atmosphere. I had the same impression."

Warrenton, Ore. is on the Pacific Ocean shore approximately 105
miles (168 kilometers) west-northwest of Portland. (Email Form
Report)


STRANGE INCIDENTS FOLLOW A UFO SIGHTING IN GEORGIA

The sighting of an egg-shaped UFO over a mountain in northern
Georgia resulted in the witness coming under surveillance by
unknown persons who may be the Men In Black (MIB).

It all started on Wednesday, April 25, 2002, Tyrell S. reported,
"My girl friend and I had just gotten through scouting for camp
areas around Red Top Mountain, which houses Altoona Lake."

Red Top Mountain state park is just east of Interstate Highway
I-75, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of Atlanta.

"As we were driving east towards Townlake Parkway, the area
where the boat launch is located, there is a semi-large
clearing. I was just sort of taking in the view when I noticed a
strange fluttering object in the sky, I assume, about 300 to 500
feet (90 to 150 meters) in the air. It was moving at a high rate
of speed. I've never seen anything fly this oddly. It seemed to
skip over the air."

"As I watched it seemingly wobble in the air, it had a 'computer
mouse' look. Not a saucer shape, more of a contoured egg shape.
I guess this is why it fluttered so oddly after 35 to 40
seconds, as we started to lose view due to the treeline. It just
vanished. No shooting up or bright lights. Nothing! It was gone-
-zip--as if it had never been there."

But that was only the beginning of the strangeness. "Now, when I
got home," Tyrell added, "I called the Woodstock, Ga. Police and
asked if any other reports had been turned in that were like
mine. The officer said no."

"It's been about a week and a half since then, and I've been
noticing more strange things around me. I know you guys are
thinking I'm just being paranoid but there has been on four
different days a black car with (Polaroid) windows so damned
black they look spray-painted following me or (has been) at
places where I was. This is (always) the same car or the same
type (automobile model-- J.T.) Now, for the last couple of days
I haven't noticed anything, but I'm kinda feeling a little odd
about the whole thing." (Email Form Report)

(Editor's Comment: The new movie Men in Black 2 is still two
months away from its theatre premiere. Strange that the MIB have
chosen now to raise their usual low profile a bit. Okay, UFO
Roundup readers in Georgia and Tennessee, here's your BOLO--Be
on the lookout for a year 2002 or 2001 glossy black two- or
four-door hardtop sedan with either out-of-state, United Nations
or phony USA Department of Defense license plates. You can tell
if it's a legitimate DOD vehicle by checking for the little
blue-and-white sticker in the lower right corner of the front
windshield. If you see the MIB black car with its tinted
windows, drop us an email.)


UFOLOGY THRIVES IN CUBA

"An intense wave of unidentified flying object (UFO) activity
has been taking place on the island of Cuba in recent years."

"In late April 2002, U.S. researcher Mike Birds, following a
visit to the island, was able to verify that UFO activity in
Cuba is much more intense than is currently known. During his
latest visit, he was able to interview five researchers in
Havana, who disclosed information about the intense wave of
activity over the Caribbean island."

"Birds relates that he was able to see a video entitled OVNIs
sobre Cuba (UFOs over Cuba) by researcher Octavo Cortazar, which
shows clear and broad evidence of their presence over Cuban
territory. Likewise, researchers gave him (Birds) a 300-page
book entitled Signs which discusses the rich listing of UFO
sightings in Cuba throughout the years."

"Perhaps one of the most spectacular Cuban cases involved
peasant Adolfo Zarate, who witnessed the appearance of a UFO and
its landing 60 meters (200 feet) away."

"'The device landed, and someone who looked like a Christian
(human being--S.C.) wearing something like a gas mask and
dressed in camo (camoflauge colors--J.T.) came out. The ship was
also camoflauged, grass-colored. It was raining heavily. He got
down and inspected the craft. He then leaned against a door and
spoke to someone in the cockpit. I think he was collecting some
rice shoots or ripping out a malanga (yam--J.T.) plant. After
(the occupant was) climbing up a ladder, the thing let out a
gout of blue fire. The only thing I felt was the pressure of the
air expelled through its exhaust.'"

"It was the size of a touring machine (school bus-- J.T.) I
don't know if it was made of wood or iron or if it was made of
air. But it lacked wings and propellors and was noiseless. It
looked like a flattened egg. A turtle that had landed on two
legs, like shock absorbers. The pilot's face could not be seen,
but he resembled a normal man. I didn't notice him bearing
weapons,' he (Zarate) told the Sunday newspaper Juventud Rebelde
de Cuba." (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Daniel Munoz y
Yohanan Diaz para esa historia.)


SILVER OVOID UFO SIGHTED OVER MEXICO CITY

On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, "Demetrio Feria, accompanied by
another witness, observed the maneuvers of a discoidal UFO in
the vicinity of Mexico City's international airport. According
to the report, produced by ufologist Carlos Clemente, director
of Grupo de los Vigilantes, the UFO was seen travelling at an
altitude slightly lower than the airport's normal approach
corridor but within the outer marker. The UFO flew from the west
to the north over the metropolitan area. The UFO presented
itself in an ovoid form and was the color of silver with a black
shadow on its lower portion. At the last minute, the UFO
suffenly changed its direction of flight, veering towards the
east, noticeably speeding up and losing itself in the haze of
the horizon." (See NotiOVNI for May 5, 2002. Muchas gracias a
Daniel Munoz para esas informaciones.)


READER FEEDBACK:

INDIANA--LAND OF THE GIANTS!?

Concerning the giant skeleton found two weeks ago in North
Africa (See UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 18, "Giant female
skeleton found in Tunisia," page 2), Roland Whiteside writes,
"Hey, Joe, you don't have to go to Tunisia to find buried
giants. We have them right here in Jennings County, Indiana."

"In 1879, they dug up an old Indian mound in Brewersville, Ind.
The mound was 71 feet (21 meters) in diameter and about five
feet (1.3 meters) high. Inside the mound the explorers found
some skeletons, and one of them nine feet, eight inches (290
centimeters or 2.9 meters) long."

"Also, in 1925, archaeologists digging in Walkerton, Ind. (the
northern part of the state near South Bend-- J.T.) found the
skeletons of eight giants measuring eight to nine feet (2.4 to
2.7 meters) long. These skeletons were wearing some kind of
weird copper armor."

"Like the Bible says, there really were 'giants in the earth in
those days.'"

(Editor's Comment: True enough, Roland. Both of the cases you
mentioned are listed in Weird America by Jim Brandon, E.P.
Dutton Co., New York, N.Y. 1978, pages 83 and 84. See also the
Indianapolis News for November 10, 1975, "Remains of Vanished
Giants Found in State.")


  From the UFO Files...

1909: AIRSHIP FLAP BREAKS OUT IN ESSEX, UK

In addition to the USA's New England states and New Zealand's
South Island, "airships"--the UFOs of a century ago--also made
an appearance in UK during the year 1909. In fact, May 1909 was
the peak of this early British flap.

Ufologist Carl Grove, in an article in Flying Saucer Review,
described the sightings in UK during this period. Grove wrote,
"The 1909 airship was a dark, cigar-shaped object carrying a
rather bright 'searchlight' about a hundred feet (30 meters) in
length, which maneuvered with ease. Like its 1897 predecessor,
it is the behavious and not the appearance of the airship that
connects it with the modern UFO phenomenon."

One of the early sightings in this particular flap took place on
May 9, 1909 at Southend-on-Sea, Essex. Here is the verbatim
testimony of the eyewitness, Miss H.M. Boville:

"I was closing the window of my bedroom, which faces northeast,
at about 11:20 (p.m.) when I noticed a very dark object looming
out of the sky, and travelling slowly from the direction of
Shoeburyness. At first I thought it was the gunpowder cloud that
one sees after an explosion, it was so opaque and black, and the
night was too dark to enable me to see it clearly. After a few
seconds, however, it crossed the sky and remained nearly
stationary in front of my window. I could see the outline of a
torpedo-shaped airship, very long and large. It was not more
than a quarter of a mile above the houses and trees, and
remained immovable for a few minutes, then rose higher, and
travelled very swiftly in a westerly direction toward the coast
and London, showing, as it did so, two very powerful
searchlights at either end for a second or two. I did not hear
any sound from the engines, as it was too far off, nor could I
discern the aeronauts; but the vessel seemed to travel very
steadily and smoothly." (See Mysterious Visitors by Brinsley
LePoer Trench, Stein and Day Publishers, New York, N.Y., 1978,
pages 98 and 99. See also the Evening News of London for May 15,
1909.) (Editor's Comment: Meanwhile, in 1909, at a certain flat
at 22B Baker Street, London, a small fist knocks on the door.
The violin music comes to an end, and a Yorkshire voice says,
"Watson, I do believe we have visitors." And as the door swings
open...well, you'll find the whole story in The Remarkable
Affair of the Visitors from Out of Town by John H. Watson, M.D.
That is, if you can find the manuscript that Sir Arthur Conan
Doyle buried in Newgrange, Ireland.)

Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more
UFO, paranormal and Fortean news from around the planet Earth,
brought to you by "the paper that goes home- -UFO Roundup." See
you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on
their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the issue
in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use
the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 10

                       Re: Something I Saw - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:25:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:29:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Something I Saw - Maccabee


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:03:40 -0400
 >Subject: Something I Saw


 >Last night my brother-in-law and I saw something in the sky last
 >night that we couldn't identify. I'm hoping someone on the List
 >can tell us what it might have been.

<snip>

 >Suddenly he looked up at the sky, and said, "What's that?" He
 >pointed at two pale white lights south of us, moving north on
 >what looked like an exactly parallel trajectory, at about the
 >speed of a plane. Or perhaps a little faster. The lights were
 >bright enough to see easily, but not strongly bright. Less
 >bright, by far, than Jupiter on a good night, and also, I'd say,
l>ess bright than the lights of a plane. They had, if this
 >metaphor communicates anything, a kind of quiet brightness. Each
 >was about 1/4 the diameter of a dime held at arms' length. Maybe
 >a little larger. The two lights together might have spanned the
 >full diameter of the dime.

If the lights were not bright and nevertheless had an
appreciable angular size, then you weren't looking at normal
lights seen in the sky. Except for the Sun and moon, all lights
in the sky including airplane headlights (but excluding
internally lighted blimps) are basically "point sources," lights
of) such small size and/or such great distance (e.g., stars,
planets) as to be unresolvable to the naked eye.

Taken literally, 1/4 diameter of a dime is about 1/8 of an inch.
At arms length, say 26 inches (who's arm?), the angular size is
about 0.005 radians. Now multiply this angular size in radians
by an assumed distance, say 5,000 ft (about 1 mile) and find a
size of about 25 ft... not a small light! Bigger if farther,
smaller if closer.

A very bright light will appear to the eye to be larger than it
actually is. (the same thing happens with camera... the image of
a bright light is larger than it 'ought' to be, and the image
size increases with increasing brightness). However, a dim
'point source' light makes a small image. Hence if a light
appears dim or at least not bright, but nevertheless has
appreciable size, then the light itself is likely to be about as
large as it appears, in terms of angular size. (In other words,
the apparent angular size hasn';t been increased by the effects
of brightness.)

I would conclude, therefore, from the data given, that the light
objects were of some size... say large glowing spheres? How big
is impossible to determine without an estimate of distance.
Since they went behind a building that sets a lower bound on the
size:

multiply 0.005 radians by the distance to the far size of the
building.


 >My first reaction was, "It's a plane." I thought that because of
 >how the lights moved. But I'd never seen lights like that on a
 >plane. There was no flashing light at the tail, for instance.
 >Just these two lights, which - if they'd been on a plane -
 >would have been on the bottom of the wings. (Assuming that the
 >source of the lights was at the normal height of a plane, and
 >that it was about the same size as one.)

 >Richard, watching the lights, said, "It can't be a plane. See
 >how the lights are flexing?" And he was right. "Flexing" was a
 >good description. As the lights moved north, they'd move closer
 >together, and then move apart. They did this in an apparently
 >rhythmic, but not completely regular way, while maintaing their
 >otherwise parallel motion.

This is, indeed, strange. If the lights were at a fixed
separation, 'flexing' might be a result of tilting left and
right and you seeing them in perspective where the apparent
separation depends upon the tilt angle. OF course, it could be
that the lights were changing their separation distance. Weird!











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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 10

                       Re: Something I Saw - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:38:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:33:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Something I Saw - Lehmberg


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 22:35:38 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Something I Saw

 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: Re: Something I Saw

 >>>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:03:40 -0400
 >>>Subject: Something I Saw

 >>>Last night my brother-in-law and I saw something in the sky last
 >>>night that we couldn't identify. I'm hoping someone on the List
 >>>can tell us what it might have been.

 >><snip>

 >>I know exactly what it was; it was a UFO!

 >>Mac

 >Mac,

 >If you use the term "UFO" this way, it becomes a very wishy-
 >washy concept.

 >Raw, uninvestigated reports like this need some other name,
 >though they popularly do get called UFOs. A report such as this
 >from a reputable person first needs to be investigated carefully
 >and thoroughly. It may very well turn out to be an IFO
 >(identified flying object), and if not, it then deserves to be
 >called a UFO (or as the U.S. Air Force used to call them an
 >"unknown").

 >The large majority of objects that initially appear to be
 >something strange (yet to be determined IFO/UFO) turn out to be
 >explainable.

 >One should not confuse raw reports (e.g., Filer's Files) with
 >thoroughly investigated reports that turn out not to have any
 >conventional explanation.

 >There is a very important difference.


Yes sir. One is trying to raise the consciousness off
'everyman', so the other can have his more refined effort
remotely appreciated by 'anyman'. That _is_ an important
difference.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com
  ~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 10

                           On The NARA FOIA Quest

From: Larry Bryant <evelarr@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:03:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:48:20 -0400
Subject: On The NARA FOIA Quest


In retaining the services of an attorney specializing in
national-security affairs, researcher Larry W. Bryant has set
the date for filing his next UFO-related FOIA lawsuit in the
U.S. Federal Court.

Bryant, director of the Washington, D.C., office of the public-
interest group Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, says he's chosen
June 24, 2002, as the filing date - to coincide with the 55th
anniversary of the beginning of the modern era of UFO awareness,
the day when private pilot Kenneth Arnold reported his airborne
encounter with several "flying saucers" near Seattle.

"This milestone effort to compel full government accountability
happens to be a natural outgrowth of researchers' discovery of
certain smoking-gun documentation pertaining to the 10 days
after the Arnold case, namely the 'Roswell Incident' and its
aftermath," Bryant says.

One of the documents in question, a one-page, July 1947
memorandum announcing a meeting of the Intelligence Advisory
Board in Washington, has been censored by officials at the
National Archives and Records Administration. "Does the memo's
totally excised agenda item No. 3 pertain to the Roswell, N.M.,
UFO retrieval and/or to the supersecret panel of Roswellian
damage-controllers called Majestic Twelve ?" Bryant asks.

see: http://www.majesticdocuments.com

"If so, then this lawsuit can help settle the matter of UFO-E.T.
reality once for all."

As the litigation proceeds toward possible socio-political
history as to the Ultimate Secret, Bryant hopes it will entice
certain UFO/E.T.-coverup whistleblowers to step forward with
enough corroborative evidence to convince the court to conduct
an in-camera inspection of the memo and its associated
enclosures that remain "classified" by such Board-member
agencies as the CIA, Air Force, Navy, Army, and State
Department.







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 10

                  Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:54:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:52:47 -0400
Subject: Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud - Lehmberg


 >From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:27:58 -0700

 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: Re: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud

 >>>From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:32:02 -0700
 >>>Subject: The 'Jonathan Reed' Fraud

 ><snip>

 >>Well, Royce, should we hand him a plaque to hang on his wall?
 >>Maybe it should read, "World's Greatest FlimFlam Man"!

 >Maybe, but he'd probably charge us to give it to him or would
 >tell us he predicted it happening - and with astonishing
 >accuracy to boot.


These guys made some money, didn't they? Was that gain a result
of fraud? Isn't there a law against that? Is class action
possible do you suppose? I didn't follow it too closely for
obvious reasons, but flim flam's flim flam... can a complaint be
sworn against these men?

I've written for years that hoaxers who don't even gain should
be fined and jailed (because they disturb the peace). Hoaxers
who gain are candidates for chemical castration, for starters,
just to take their sociopathic edge off, imco.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com
~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







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                    Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:58:38 -0400
Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?


Hi All,

I'm sure we can all agree that photographs and videotape cannot
prove 'where' a recorded object came from, or 'who' manufactured
it. But it remains a conundrum to me that images (that proved
after careful analysis not to have been hoaxed/created) of solid
objects are not considered hard evidence for the 'presence' of
something out of the ordinary. UFOs.

I have had multiple sightings. The only way I have available to
me to record these events (to prove I saw 'something') is by
using film or videotape. Over the years I have reported _only_
those sighting events that I was able to either photograph or
videotape. I figured if I couldn't at least back up the sighting
report with a little recorded material, it would only become
'another' in a long line of 'uninvestigated' UFO sighting
reports.

In short, a waste of time.

It seems that the problem in accepting photographic evidence
lies more in the meaning that becomes attached to it rather than
the fact that it is evidence for the presence of something
*unexplainable. (*in any prosaic terms.) The question should not
be; does any particular photo depict an 'alien' craft from
'outer space', as much as; does the photo or videotape depict a
solid and unidentifiable flying object? How much substantiation
does photographic evidence lend to a witness report?

Stripped of the 'hot button' emotions that claims of 'aliens'
and 'spacemen/women' generate, un-hoaxed photos _are_ 'hard'
evidence for the presence of something strange. If nothing else,
it is a corroboration for the sighting report.

I have invested hundreds of my hard earned dollars in
photographic equipment. Money, that as a family man, could
always have been better spent elsewhere. If photographs and
videotape are not considered acceptable evidence, then why
bother recording the strange objects in the sky at all? It is
frustrating to me as a witness, who has recorded several of
these sightings, that even pictures aren't considered acceptable
evidence that I saw something real - as opposed to
'hallucinated' or 'mis-perceived'.

How much weight is given to photographic evidence? How much
weight should be given? If it can be proven that a picture of a
UFO was not hoaxed or doctored what does that mean in terms of
establishing the presence of something unusual in our skies?
How much influence should that kind of evidence have on those
who are trying to determine the reality of the phenomena?

If I were to tell you that there is a ceramic inlay with the
word "Imagine" built into the path that leads to the 'Strawberry
Field' in Central Park, and then I showed you a picture of it,
nobody would question it. There it would be in the photo. Yet
when I report a UFO and show the pictures I took, the photos
have _no_value_ as evidence. I don't get that.

I would like a clearer definition of the role that photographic
evidence plays in establishing the reality of the presence of
UFOs on our world. And let's leave aside any consideration of
who is building and piloting these craft or where they may be
from. Let's just speak of the photographs as evidence that real
and solid, unknown, objects are circumnavigating our skies.

Any takers?


Regards,

John Velez
Witness









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                 Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment

From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:06:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:04:32 -0400
Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment


 >From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:24:59 -0700

 >Here we are 7 days later and we still have no comment about the
 >Reed UFO Fraud from anyone associated with it.

 >Jaime Maussan and his assistant Daniel Munoz made a few comments
 >on a recent radio program, but they have to explain anything.

 >How much longer will we have to wait to hear from those
 >involved? How about the so-called investigators that proclaimed
 >'Dr. Reed' (real name John Bradley Rutter) was indeed a doctor
 >and that his bogus evidence has been scientifically examined?

 >"Dr. Reed graduated from UCLA in June of 1980. Harold Chacon,
 >who has been accused of working at a gas station, is a biologist
 >and a tutor at the Catholic University of Puerto Rico. The
 >inside part of the link artifact is not made of rubber foam;
 >it's made of carbon nano-tubes."
 > --Jaime Maussan, 05-May-02 on a Latin American radio program.

 >How long will we have to wait? There are no excuses at this
 >point. Though the e-mail message appearing here is going to
 >those listed below, I urge people on this List and elsewhere to
 >ask the following for answers:

 >DrReedLink@aol.com
 >(John Bradley Rutter (aka "Dr.Jonathan Reed")

 >Robert Aria (aka "Robert Raith")
 >rraithlink@attbi.com

 >Daniel Iaria (aka "Dante Aries")
 >dani@interimsolutions.org

 >Daniel McEvoy
 >dannyp1@ix.netcom.com

 >Jaime Maussan
 >jaimemaussan@ovnis.com.mx

 >Daniel Munoz
 >Ovnimexico1@aol.com

 >Shawn Atlanti
 >ufobks@webtv.net

 >While this is not a list of everyone with some direct connection
 >this UFO fraud, these are the prominent people associated with
 >it and promoting it.

 >Demand accountability.

<snip>


This e-mail was sent to all of the above listed people.

Dan Iaria has blocked my e-mail

Robert Aria's (aka Robert 'Raith') e-mail address has been shut
down

Daniel Munoz's e- mail account is no good now

Maussan's box is full

I know that Munoz and Maussan both read this List.....

Day 8 and still no answers... any guesses on the excuses we will
be given?


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM







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                  Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson

From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:23:29 -500
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:07:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Hutchinson


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 23:16:43 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:55:22 -500
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>I know Ed, Dave and others have put in some serious effort in
 >>determining the dimensions of the debris in the FW photos. Part
 >>of the effort has been determining a base dimension that all can
 >>agree on. Unfortunately, I don't think that using any item in
 >>the photos as a baseline will yield accurate results.

 >What makes you think I used only one item to scale the picture?
 >I used multiple items, among them being the radiator, window
 >frames, picture frame on the wall, baseboard, chairs, rug
 >stripes, and body proportions.

Well, for one thing, I did not say that you used _only_ one
item. Therefore, I did not think that.

 >>Look at the Ramey photo, and the radiator in the back-left of
 >>the frame. Notice the distortion? The radiator appears to be
 >>warped and leaning to the left, as does the frame of the window.
 >>Yet the chair leg (next to Ramey's left knee) is perfectly
 >>straight.

 >Most of this isn't due to camera distortion. The slanting is
 >due primarily to the normal effects of perspective. <snip>

I cannot cite numbers - percent of distortion that can be
attributed to any particular focal length - but as any portrait
photographer will tell you, image distortion is a problem that
they have to be aware of at all times. In my brief foray into
that field as a youth, I was taught that use of a wide-angle
lens had to be very carefully planned so as not to induce any
unfortunate distortion of physical features.

 >>A wide- angle lens on the Speed Graphic camera that
 >>Bond used caused this optical distortion.

 >No doubt there is some optical distortion, but you are dead
 >wrong to attribute the so-called leaning to the effects of the
 >lens. Perspective is the main culprit.

I have used a number of different lenses on my cameras, and what
is considered a "normal" lens (50-55mm) will not cause the
bowing effect in the FW shots. Now- it is possible that the lens
Bond used could have induced the bowing due to the way it was
ground, but it does appear to me to more the results of a wide-
angle lens.

 >>I am not conversant on the lenses used for a Speed Graphic,
 >>but I would judge the focal length of the one Bond was using
would be the
 >>equivalent of a 28-30mm lens for a 35mm Camera.

 >According to Attach. 33 in the 1995 AF Roswell report, the
 >most common Speed Graphic focal lengths were 127 mm, 135 mm,
 >and 150. The calculated focal length based on the photoanalysis
 >was 121 mm.

Thanks - I forgot that item was in the report. From that, we
could possibly assume that the 135mm was a "normal" focal length
on a Speed Graphic, and a 121mm was probably a wide-angle.

<snip>
 >I would be off in my measurement by roughly
 >.25 inches out of 2+ feet because of lens aberration, or about
 >1%. Hey, I can live with that.

In re-reading my post, I see that I failed to illuminate
sufficiently one point I wanted to make. That point was that Ed
seemed to be demanding absolutes, while you were arguing that
there will be some acceptable error partially due to, as you
call it, perspective, and also due to the condition of the
debris- broken struts, etc.

Believe it or not, this evil, nasty (=85shudder!) debunker agrees
with your overall assessment!!

The post was intended to question what work had been done to
correct for the distortion created by a wide-angle lens. It
seems to me that if one knows precisely what the effects on an
image taken with a 121mm lens on a Speed Graphic are, it can be
corrected with the proper software. (No- I do not know _what_
software package, but I am sure that it exists.) Bruce Maccabee
would be a good resource.

Once the corrections have been done, it would be far simpler to
derive more accurate measurements- ones that hopefully all can
live with, including Ed. You say you can live with a 1% error
factor. Given the amount of distortion evident in the photos, I
would say that 5% would be acceptable, and expected.

However, Ed appears to disagree, holding out for some sort of
absolute, arguing that so long as there is a question about
this, his position is tenable. I disagree. Ed is clutching at
straws and ignoring the obvious. If he wants absolutes, then the
photos, as is, will not yield them for the reasons I pointed
out.

<snip>

 >First you should separate your obvious confusion between normal
 >perspective effects and actual lens distortion.

I'd like to see Dr. Maccabee verify this proclamation of yours.
I think you are wrong, but I will bow to his authority. Will
you?

 >Bruce Hutchinson certainly has the right ask questions about
 >accuracy and methodology, including possible effects of optical
 >aberrations. What bothers me is his usual handwaving style of
 >argumentation. He's done no work on this and no real analysis.
 >He does nothing more than eyeball the photos and proclaim there
 >is horrific lens distortions there which make quantitative
 >analysis of debris impossible. Something is true because he
 >proclaims its true, even when it isn't.

Well, golly. Isn't perspective wonderful? I complimented you on
the work you have done, but questioned the degree of accuracy
that can be obtained from a photo taken with a lens that induces
distortion. I pointed out those areas that an eyeball analysis
can detect the obvious. And as the discussion between you and Ed
was partially on the degree of accuracy one can expect from
these photos, the post was apropos.

Of course, these comments came from a known skeptic of the
_worst_ sort, a dastardly debunker. Thus this knee-jerk reaction
from David.

 >What I think is really going on here is that I beat him up a
 >few months ago by saying my prelimary analysis indicated that
 >the debris in the photos could probably be fully accounted for
 >by a singular balloon and a singular radar target.

Beat up? Hardly. I said this then, and I will say it again here:
I don't care if the pictures show pieces of just one Rawin, or
two, or three. Regardless, it is still what's left of a NYU
balloon train. But despite this attempt of yours (not mine!) to
turn this conversation back to that topic, I will leave it here:
We disagree on the origin of what was on Ramey's floor.

 >Isn't debunking neat?

Gangs of fun!

Regards,

Bruce Hutchinson






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                        Re: Something I Saw - Kaeser

From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:31:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:10:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Something I Saw - Kaeser


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 22:35:38 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Something I Saw

<snip>

 >Mac,

 >If you use the term "UFO" this way, it becomes a very wishy-
 >washy concept.

 >Raw, uninvestigated reports like this need some other name,
 >though they popularly do get called UFOs. A report such as this
 >from a reputable person first needs to be investigated carefully
 >and thoroughly. It may very well turn out to be an IFO
 >(identified flying object), and if not, it then deserves to be
 >called a UFO (or as the U.S. Air Force used to call them an
 >"unknown").

 >The large majority of objects that initially appear to be
 >something strange (yet to be determined IFO/UFO) turn out to be
 >explainable.

 >One should not confuse raw reports (e.g., Filer's Files) with
 >thoroughly investigated reports that turn out not to have any
 >conventional explanation.

 >There is a very important difference.

Richard

Yes, there is a very important difference, but I think you're
the tail trying to wag the dog here. It's important that the
accepted definition of UFO, or Unidentified Flying Object, be
universal. The distinction, between reports that have been fully
investigated and those that have not, should certainly be made.

IMO, the term 'UFO' has come to refer to all unidentified cases,
including those that are later resolved. It also has become an
entertainment theme used in all forms of media, with several
images becoming memes that have taken on a life of their own.

It would seem that researched cases that remain 'UFO's' (in the
true sense of the word), should be identified as such and placed
in a different category.

If a new grouping could be developed, the best evidence of a
real mystery would be easily identifiable. Maybe if a real
distinction can be drawn then there might be more interest from
those who are now 'sitting on (or near) the fence'.


Steve







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                          Secrecy News -- 05/09/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:17:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:17:24 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/09/02



SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 41
May 9, 2002


**      EPA GETS CLASSIFICATION AUTHORITY
**      CRS REPORTS ON PATRIOT ACT
**      GAO QUESTIONS ACCESS TO SPACE DATA
**      CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE INFO AND FOIA
**      CIA RECORDS ON NAZI WAR CRIMES RELEASED
**      WHY DOD WEB PAGES ARE DOWN


EPA GETS CLASSIFICATION AUTHORITY

President Bush this week granted "original classification
authority," i.e. the authority to designate information as
classified national security information, to the Administrator
of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

EPA officials have previously been authorized to receive, handle
and store classified information but the Agency has never before
had the authority to generate new classified information.

Under the President's Order, dated May 6 and published in the
Federal Register on May 9, the EPA Administrator (and whichever
other EPA employees she may designate) may now classify
information up to the Secret level. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/epaorder.html

The Bush order follows on a similar order of December 10, 2001,
that granted original classification authority to the Secretary
of Health and Human Services.

The expansion of the national security classification system
into new agencies, especially purely civilian domestic agencies,
is cause for concern to the extent that it heralds an increase
in official secrecy.

On the other hand, expanded use of the classification system,
with its clear boundaries and procedures, is preferable to
recent steps in some quarters to impose poorly defined security
controls on unclassified information.


CRS REPORTS ON PATRIOT ACT

The Congressional Research Service has issued two new reports on
the USA PATRIOT Act, the far-reaching anti-terrorism law that
was hastily adopted last year.

"The USA PATRIOT Act: A Legal Analysis," by Charles Doyle,
provides a hefty 78 page summary and analysis of the even
heftier Act's provisions. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31377.pdf

The same material, stripped of legal citations and footnotes, is
reduced to five pages in "The USA PATRIOT Act: A Sketch" and is
available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RS21203.pdf

The PATRIOT Act was also the subject of critical commentary in
the current issue of "Human Rights," the journal of the American
Bar Association Individual Rights and Responsibilities Section
(as noted on Declan McCullagh's Politech list) here:

http://www.abanet.org/irr/hr/winter02.html


GAO QUESTIONS ACCESS TO SPACE DATA

Could public access to space surveillance data that describes
the locations of objects in Earth orbit and that is published by
NASA on the world wide web pose a national security threat?

In 1999, the Defense Department examined that question and
concluded that there was no risk. But in response to a General
Accounting Office inquiry, DoD and NASA agreed to re-visit the
issue.

GAO reported to Congress on the matter on April 22. A copy of
the report was made available online not by GAO but by
Cryptome.org here:

http://cryptome.org/gao-02-402rni.htm


CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE INFO AND FOIA

A legislative proposal to create a new exemption to the Freedom
of Information Act for certain "critical infrastructure
information" was the subject of a hearing before the Senate
Governmental Affairs Committee on May 8.

The proposal, supported by industry and some in government, drew
opposition from public interest groups.

David Sobel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center argued
that there was no justification for a new exemption and that
such an exemption could in fact be counter-productive.

"I have heard no scenario put forth that would result in the
detrimental disclosure of information under the current
provisions of the FOIA," Mr. Sobel testified. "Overly broad new
exemptions could, however, adversely impact the public's right
to oversee important and far-reaching governmental functions and
remove incentives for remedial private sector action."

Rena Steinzor of the Natural Resources Defense Council advised
that "Secrecy is not the best way to protect critical
infrastructure, and this Committee should abandon that
approach." She also provided a detailed critique of pending
legislation on the subject (S. 1546, "The Critical
Infrastructure Information Act" introduced by Senators Bennett
and Kyl).

All of the prepared testimony from the hearing is available
here:

http://www.senate.gov/~gov_affairs/050802witness.htm


CIA RECORDS ON NAZI WAR CRIMES RELEASED

The Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records
Interagency Working Group (IWG) yesterday announced the release
of Central Intelligence Agency files on 381 individuals and
subjects associated with Nazi war crimes or war criminals.

See this May 8 National Archives press release:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/05/nara050802.html


WHY DOD WEB PAGES ARE DOWN

Like countless other government web sites, the U.S. Army's
Redstone Arsenal web site has seen much of its public content
taken offline lately.

Why?

The Redstone webmaster removed the pages, he explained with a
rhetorical wink, "due to the threat against our nation, our way
of life, national security, and because I was told to do so...."
See:

http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/links/links.html


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the
message: subscribe secrecy_news

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #363

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:32:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:23:41 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #363


Alfred's Odd Ode #363 (Thursday -- May 9, 2002)

I can step outside and find no limit to my finite mind, that
thing I have which reaches out beyond the noise we've bitched
about, and I'm amazed how much is _plain_, so clearly sing this
glad refrain!

The starry skies might _crawl_ with life... that comes from other
_suns_, good night! There is nightly evidence that this,
profoundly, _must_ exist! Creeping lights will fly due west
without a sound I now confess, and I might see them every time I
put my eyes upon the sky!

Still, the bland officious would propose that I'm pretentious...
and pretend that I don't see the lights I _see_ in front of me.
But lights are there despite indifference (a measure of their
crass ambivalence...), society subsumed so some... can profit
like they've used a gun (..."they" can _make_ one toe a line,
deny one what they've _earned_ [a crime!], and keep their heels
upon ones neck -- deny someone a LIVING, yet!)!

The universe goes "on and on" in time that's more the merely
long, where anything has happened there... righteous glory, cruel
despair, or anything that falls between some yin and yang of
priceless being. Mainstream science is abject regarding what
they would neglect, and one cannot presume to know what shall not
honor quid pro quo. A universe, not user friendly, is where one
lives a life _completely_. Though not a place for faint of
heart... it's still a heart's component part...

All this *stuff* I've talked about just bubbles at our core, I'd
SHOUT. We could no more stop its egress than one might stop a
bullet's progress. There is something going on and someone knows;
the feeling's strong, that I perceive what's been denied by
institutions I've decried. There are wonders prepossessed by
psychopaths we should detest! These are men who jerk the reigns,
manipulate our trusting brains with propaganda they've employed
to keep the status quo enjoyed!

Now "we're" completely self-absorbed, a "bunch", then, much too
easily ignored, and we don't help what might subsume our lesser
effort (?), I'd presume? We scrap like wolves around a carcass,
bitch and snap like harpies, Marcus, tearing off some chunk of
meat that's meaningless and no great treat. Case in point, it
disappears, as we don't yield our bounty -- clear. What we
have... shall not be shared... till points are made or dollars
squared!

Most won't do the selfless thing... 'cause psychopaths would
reign supreme, and no-one has a "peer review" where rule of law's
conformed by truth! We're only bits of soggy jetsam swashing on
the decks of flotsam, and dashed against the rocks of those who
profit by our ignorance, Holmes!

We find at last we live a lie that we've been taught we could
decry, that priests are men above reproach, a lawyer's not a
slimy roach, policemen are the friends we need to sanctify our
selfish greed? That UFOs do not exist, that folks aren't taken --
time's not missed, and we can trust our government is something
more than excrement?

Well -- I'm alive beyond the jive of what they make up or
contrive. I am one no longer fooled... by what they'd had me
teach in school. I have senses; I can see, I can hear and
think... I'm FREE! I'll report the truth perceived without
_your_ baggage. I've been relieved! Left to _just_ my own
devices (an idle mind is truly priceless!), I have found with
cynicism, why some react to criticism. And If "they" take it
personally (?), I might be right... these fail to see.

I know you're scared; well... I'm scared too... But someone
knows, you know it's true. There is 'something' underlying,
something's _there_ there's no denying, and it's, in fact, a
lighted fart that we're 'protected' on our part. We don't share
a "blessed" ignorance! We're not served by our indifference!
They'd say that we won't WANT to know... but then they would!
That sucks and blows...

"Knowing", I suspect, improves... the quality of life abused. If
one is one in fact informed, then one achieves some 'better'
form. It's a loss if you don't 'know'. Truth's a boon they'll
not bestow. They would lose the cat-bird seat, and they'd not
suffer _that_ defeat!

History shows that we're not served by lies and obfuscation
heard. Secrets that are kept from you are what you'd want to
know! It's TRUE! Your ignorance is to their advantage to keep
you at a disadvantage, and ignorance rewards those pleased to
prosecute their lust and greed. You won't "profit"; you're
_made_ stupid, and that's the role of institutions that are
closed to oversight. They're hiding stuff that shatters NIGHT!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

A closed institution is a bad institution -- generally. A lack
of critical oversight on any institution leads to corruption of
that institution (if it ever _was_ uncorrupted) in all cases.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, always. Consider hundreds of
chicken-hawk Christian priests running blithely free. Still, the
masses (you and me) complacently allow them this. Why?

Running parallel to the preceding and related, there is a most
fulsome whining and carrying on by the hyper-educated science
religionists, presently, regarding a 'belief' in so called
pseudo-science that is rotting 'legitimate' science from within.
It is a "rot" that they say is facilitated with the
consideration of various and sundry scientific 'heresies'. These
tediously moaning pontificators would have us believe that the
study of UFOs, the 'Abduction' phenomenon, and other unsolved
anomalies and unsettling peculiarities must destroy the very
science that the more rational of us (ironically) would use to
attempt a study of those things.

Stuff and puling nonsense. It is the science religionists,
themselves, that encourage that rot and disinterest! It is the
science religionists, themselves, that make science dull to the
layman and uninteresting to the student. It is the science
religionists, themselves, that limit investigation to such a
narrow band of filtered reality in method, repeatability, and
measurement that the proverbial papoose is un-propitiously
pitched with the dirty bath water (...sorry). Finally, it is the
science religionists _themselves_, that depart from the reality
of science when they obstinately CHOOSE __not__ to go where the
data ultimately leads -- for shortsighted, self-serving, and
status-quo maintaining reasons... uh, ...was a cancer cure
discovered years ago and shelved to sustain a corporate bottom
line?

Some of these science religionists pronounce pompously
reasonable proclamations of scientific fidelity and high
tolerance diligence, but that is merely a fallacious cloak too
airily worn. Wearing these cloaks, remember, are mere garden-
variety human beings. As high as ten in a hundred of these are
full blown sociopaths, and ninety percent of _all_ of them are
full of crap (because ninety percent of _everything_ is crap or
full of crap if you can believe Theodore Sturgeon, Isaac Asimov,
or Stanton Friedman). Fealty, fidelity, and honorable conduct
won't be guaranteed there, just as it can't be "guaranteed"
anywhere. These science religionists can be just as crooked as
anyone else...

One must make all the justice one can stand, themselves, by
themselves. The hijacked mainstream can't (won't) stand for very
much, so don't depend on _it_ for justice.

The "well meaning" but axe-grinding skeptibunkies (interested
only in keeping coveted positions at a funding trough) assume
the cloaks of these scientific religionists, write the rules for
discovery, make up from whole cloth the definitions of
"evidence", and set the "sliding-scale bar" of "proof enough"
for the (very manipulated, conned, and complacent) rest of us.
What is the "sliding scale" bar? What is proof enough? Are we
manipulated (non-efficaciously) by our society?

The "sliding scale bar" is the "killer app" rubric of denial
employed by skept-o-bunkies (SOBs) regarding extraordinary
claims requiring extraordinary evidence. That "bar that must be
cleared" is set by the SOBs, so there is never _enough_
extraordinary evidence for a contested claim, resulting in Jean
Van Gemert's receding (sliding) and therefore unachievable
evidentiary horizon. As proof may counter a jealously entrenched
mainstream, there "shall be" no proof extraordinary enough to
unseat it. A non-efficacious manipulation... by any other name
it would smell as sweet.

The reasonably observant are not fooled. The duplicitous-ness of
mainstream science is sensed by the masses even if it cannot be
articulated and it is _that_ that is the genesis of the
ballyhooed and bemoaned "rot from within" (if it exists at
all?), and not the fringe activities that only arise as a result
of the scientific VACUUM left by the mainstream's science
religionists and their equally limited SOB apologists. The
_proof_ is a very obvious anomalous aerial activity that is
still GIGGLED at 50 years after it was first identified as a
bona-fide subject of (mind-bogglingly!) _gainful_ scientific
study! The stars, ladies and gentlebunkies! No less than the
_stars_!

Any true investigation demonstrates that there is very little to
giggle at. Moreover, science, as a junior institution, shouldn't
smile... especially condescendingly. A condescending smile's a
smirk, and smirks'll only earn a sneer from superiors and
subordinates alike. I'm sneering right now.

Somebody knows. It's in your, very likely, best interest to
know, as well. Precluding your "knowing" are closed institutions
without oversight (for convenient reasons benefiting, and known
only to, "them"). Most institutions are closed, or become closed
to an individual if an individual can't or won't be vetted. Non-
vetted Individuals are denigrated by institutions. Individuals
(for their inventiveness!) are required for lasting cultural
success. Rigid and unchanging 'closed' institutions are the
death of an evolving culture. Individuals are key. Respect your
individuals, but don't take any crap from them either. Read on.

~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the
specious and scabrous scurrilous.






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   May > May 10

                            PEER Site Disappears

From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 20:59:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:28:55 -0400
Subject: PEER Site Disappears


Dr. John Mack's PEER website signs off

I'd like to announce some changes to the websites of Dr. John
Mack.

The Program for Extraordinary Experience (PEER) website is being
retired. We would like to redirect you to two alternative sites
that preserve much of the material:

http://www.centerchange.org/peer

...presents a selection of articles about extraordinary
experiences by Dr. Mack and friends. The main page is updated
regularly with essays on a wider range of topics; any new
material by Dr. Mack will appear here first.

http://www.passporttothecosmos.com

...actually a redirection to

www.centerchange.org/passport

presents some of the best interviews and writings by and about
Dr. Mack as well as some audio clips and some of the promotional
material that was created for his 1999 book, and other odds &
ends. This site is also being mirrored at

www.beyondcommunion.com/johnmack

As the Passport to the Cosmos site is based on the original
promo site created for his 1999 book it is more splashy than Dr.
Mack would personally like. His official outlet is the first
site, which is more conservative in appearance.

In case you are wondering about the future of Dr. Mack's
interest in the subject of alien encounters: Dr. Mack has
remarked that Passport to the Cosmos, his second book on alien
encounters, is his final word on the subject, or at least it is
the last book he will devote in full to it. He is working on a
new book about cultural transformation which may touch upon the
transformational themes that were his primary interest in his
work with experiencers, but this book will be aimed at a broader
audience. And he recently returned to his anti-war roots by
contributing a chapter to a book on terrorism (as yet untitled,
release to be announced). Dr. Mack expects he will be making
fewer public appearances, favoring events that bring together a
wide range of speakers from different fields. This should not be
viewed as turning away from the UFO community, but rather as a
continuation of his effort to bring the subject of "what we can
learn about ourselves from extraordinary experiences" to the
greater public.

On that note, we have heard that the 90 minute film about Dr.
Mack and experiencers, "Touched", is within 3 months of
completion and the filmmaker is seeking interest from any
networks in the US or UK (or Australia, or anywhere they
broadcast in English, I expect); the site is
www.blinddogfilms.com. We've seen parts of it and it is even
better than the rough cut some of you saw (John V., I know you
saw some of it) a year ago.

PEER itself has been largely inactive for the past year (though
we have continued to assist the media when they have questions
about the human dimension of alien encounters) as efforts have
shifted towards the new Institute for Psychological & Spiritual
Development; the closing of the PEER website reflects this shift
in focus and resources.


Will Bueche

Communications Advisor
Center for Psychology & Social Change
http://www.centerchange.org
info@centerchange.org








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               Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:40:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:48:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Sandow


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:49:02 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 01:03:47 -0500 (EST)
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

<snip>

 >Have you read Greg Sandow's independent investigation of the
 >case? I would assume not, but the IUR issues in question,
 >Spring and Summer 1997, are available from CUFOS. Sandow
 >devastates the critics' case. That doesn't, of course, make the
 >case "true". It has not been disproved, but it remains
 >unproved. I hope you understand the difference. I believe the
 >latter is the more classically skeptical position.

My study is also available on my UFO website:

www.gregsandow.com/ufo

See: www.gregsandow.com for my work in music.

I began my piece with the same acknowledgement Jerry made in his
post - that the case is very hard to believe. But that doesn't
mean it's been refuted. I don't take any stand on whether it all
happened as Budd says it did, but, as Jerry says, I found the
evidence cited against it to be very flimsy.


Greg Sandow







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                          Movies Out Of This World

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:56:26 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:52:35 -0400
Subject: Movies Out Of This World


Source: News Register (McMinnville, Oregon),

http://www.newsregister.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=3D150116

Stig

***

Videos from outer space!

Published: May 9, 2002

By DAVID BATES
of the News-Register

**

OK, so you've seen aliens blow the White House to pieces in
"Independence Day" a dozen times, and you own the "Men in Black"
DVD. What else is there at the video store for the UFO-phile and
alien-phobe?

More where those came from, that's what. To celebrate
McMinnville's UFO Festival this weekend, we've compiled a list
of 10 films that deal with both friendly and not-so- friendly
visitors from beyond.

To be honest, it's an eclectic list. You'll find the obvious =97
we just couldn't ignore the Mount Rushmore of UFO movies, "Close
Encounters of the Third Kind" =97 but we tried to lean toward the
not-so-obvious. "The Arrival," for example, came out only six
years ago, but it was crushed at the box office by the
"Independence Day" juggernaut. If you haven't seen it, you may
be pleasantly surprised.

Also, we've thrown in a few classics, a made-for-TV movie, and
some sleepers that you may have forgotten about or otherwise
escaped your attention. Remember, just because it ain't on the
new release shelf and stuffed with digital effects doesn't mean
it isn't exciting.

So while you're waiting for George Lucas to serve up this
summer's science fiction feast at the multiplex, snack on these
appetizers. All films are available locally on video and/or DVD.
Enjoy!

Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1997) Steven Spielberg's UFO
epic is the granddaddy of the genre, and along with "Schindler's
List," it's one of his most expertly paced films. Richard
Dreyfuss is terrific as a utility man who finds himself
sculpting the Devil's Tower out of mashed potatoes after a
bizarre night shift in suburbia. Some of the best scenes feature
5-year-old actor Cary Guffey reacting to what you can't see. The
mix of personal storytelling and David Lean- esque grandeur
makes this an exciting night's entertainment. (Rated PG, 132
minutes)

The Arrival (1996) While audiences were making the "Independence
Day" the explosion-fest blockbuster of 1996, they were -
  unfortunately - not seeing this sparkling gem about a
government radio technician who tunes in to a conspiracy
involving . . . nah, we won't give it away. Charlie Sheen is
perfect as the nerdy NASA grunt who finds out way more about
some mysterious radio signals than he really wanted to know.
"Arrival" maintains its fevered pitch of paranoia right up until
the final, delightfully weird shot. (PG-13, 115 minutes)

Plan 9 From Outer Space (1958) The notoriously untalented Ed
Wood set out to make a dark thriller about aliens resurrecting
Earth's dead. Result? Possibly the most unintentionally
hilarious movie ever made, by anyone, anywhere. Sample dialogue:
"We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and
I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember, my
friends, future events such as these will affect you in the
future." And that's a line that precedes a flashback. See it
with a group. Of people. Otherwise you would be alone ... by
yourself. (Unrated, 79 tortured minutes)

Intruders (1992) This 1992 made-for-TV movie is one of the few
films that takes UFOs and alien abduction absolutely seriously.
And, possibly for that reason, it is absolutely unnerving.
Richard Crenna stars as a skeptical physician who gradually
comes to believe that his patients aren't kidding around with
their weird stories. It's based on investigative work by some of
the experts in this fringe field of psychology, including Budd
Hopkins and Dr. John Mack. Even if you don't believe, this is
top-notch storytelling. (163 minutes)

Communion (1989) Novelist Whitley Strieber's autobiographical
account of a series of terrifying encounters at his rural New
York home pushed alien abduction literature into the mainstream
during the mid-1980s. Four years later, his best-selling
"Communion" was made into a movie starring a badly miscast
Christopher Walken, who hardly needs alien anal probes to convey
weirdness. It's good for a few scares, but the book was better.
(Rated R, 101 minutes)

Fire In the Sky (1993) Another "based-on-a-true-story" take on
the topic. This time, instead of nabbing a novelist in New York,
they grab a forester in Arizona named Travis Walton. For a
while, the story focuses on Walton's buddies, who don't know if
he's lying or just nuts. When the film finally gets around to
following the poor guy into the spaceship, things get pretty
grim. Not for the squeamish. (Rated PG-13, 106 minutes).

War of the Worlds (1953) Before "Independence Day," this
special- effects laden extravaganza of a massive alien attack on
Earth was wowing audiences with its way-cool special effects. It
has a mostly forgettable cast, but never mind: The movie's real
stars are those wing-shaped, laser-spewing spacecraft that blast
the planet within an inch of the Apocalypse. The effects are
dated, but spectacular nonetheless. It's based on H.G. Wells'
story, although it takes the usual liberties. (Rated G, 85
minutes)

Starman (1984) E.T. for adults. When a space probe from Earth
carries an invitation for any alien passers-by, Jeff Bridges
accepts. The film was seen at the time as an "E.T." rip-off, but
it stands on its own - and it's a surprisingly tender romance,
given that John Carpenter (see below) directed it. "Starman" is
one of those quintessential sleeper hits: After you see it,
you'll berate yourself for missing it in the theater. Bridges is
terrific; his performance won him an Oscar nomination. (Rated
PG- 13, 115 minutes).

The Thing (1982) It's politically correct to beat up on
Hollywood for inflicting gory special effects on audiences, but
John Carpenter's claustrophobic horror story about a team of
Antarctic scientists being killed off by a shape-changing alien
is one film where gooey effects are put to powerfully effective
use. They're not just gross - they're frightening. Kurt Russell
stars. If you'd like a less violent version of the same story
(or if you're a dog- lover) check out Howard Hawks' 1951
original, "The Thing From Another World." (Rated R, 109 minutes)

Forbidden Planet (1956) For sci-fi buffs, it's either pre-
  Forbidden Planet, or post-Forbidden Planet. That's the stature
this pulpy, outer space version of Shakespeare's "Tempest"
enjoys. Leslie Nielsen stars as a spaceship commander sent to
find out what happened to an Earth colony that's gone silent.
Comes complete with an eerie, electronic score. In a pre-Star
Wars era, this is the sort of thing pimply faced adolescents
gawked at with wide eyes on Saturday afternoons. It's still
worth gawking at. (Rated G, 98 minutes)

**

=A9 1999-2002 News-Register Publishing Co. AP materials =A9 2002
Associated Press.

All rights reserved. This material may not be published,
broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.






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             Former 'Kink' Album Inspired By Personal ET Contact

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 05:32:46 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 05:00:50 -0400
Subject: Former 'Kink' Album Inspired By Personal ET Contact


Source: The Plain Dealer on Cleveland.com, May 9, 2002,

http://www.cleveland.com/music/plaindealer/index.ssf?/xml/s
tory.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/entertainment/102093675622
64976.xml

Stig

***

Music News

**

If your brain's been bugged, give a listen to this album

05/09/02

John Soeder
Plain Dealer Pop Music Critic

*

As a member of the Kinks, rock 'n' roller Dave Davies was a key
figure in the British Invasion of the 1960s. Now he's into space
invaders.

For his latest solo project, 'Bug', the singer-guitarist has
cooked up a doozy of a concept album about how our lives are
manipulated by mind- controlling implants. And who planted those
nasty devices in our noggins, you ask? Why, the aliens, of
course!

"It's tongue in cheek," Davies says, not entirely convincingly.
He'll perform tonight at the Beachland Ballroom and Tavern,
backed by a four-piece band.

'Bug', which came out Tuesday, is "a metaphor for getting rid of
all the negative things holding us back," Davies says during a
recent phone interview. "It's very much a rock 'n' roll record.
... But I also try to address some issues, like electromagnetic
pollution."

The title track, "True Phenomenon," "Whose [sic] Foolin' Who"
and other new tunes embrace sci-fi themes and conspiracy
theories, with plenty of crunchy, Kinks-style power chords
ringing out throughout the album. If the Weekly World News ran
CD reviews, this one would get five stars.

The 55-year-old Davies "very much" believes we are not alone in
the universe. "I've been fairly involved with some UFO research
groups over the years," says this dedicated follower of
paranormal activity.

Apparently, extraterrestrials have been fairly involved with
Davies, too. In his autobiography, 'Kink', he recounts how
"strange voices" struck up a telepathic conversation with him
before a 1982 concert.

"The intelligences did not tell me who they were," he writes,
"but two of them said they had always been my spirit guides and
two others were entities that were not of this Earth, but were
involved in missions here as watchers and nurturers of our
race."

Twenty years later, Davies is still coming to terms with his
"epiphany," as he describes the close encounter. "I was
fortunate to have been given a lot of information all at once,"
he says. "It takes a long time for some of this stuff to
actually seep into the conscious mind.... It's all related to my
personal growth, to a consciousness shift."

On a less metaphysical note, the good news for Kinks fans is
that Davies recently has been communicating (via e-mail, not
telepathically) with his sibling rival Ray, the band's frontman.

"We're not quite sure what to do, but we definitely want to work
together on something," Davies says. "I don't want it to be a
purely retro thing. I'd like it to be something new."

The oft-bickering brothers haven't teamed up for a Kinks album
since "To the Bone," released in 1994 in their native England
and two years later in the United States. It featured stripped-
  down reworkings of "You Really Got Me," "All Day and All of the
Night" and other classic-rock keepers from the Kinks catalog.
The band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in
1990.

Alongside selections from 'Bug', Davies has been dusting off
Kinks favorites during his solo gigs.

"I'm very proud to be associated with such a body of work," he
says. "Ray and I work best when we give each other space to
create... I've always tried to nurture his ideas, because he's a
special person, as well as being an [expletive]."

Contact John Soeder at:

jsoeder@plaind.com, 216-999-4562

**

=A9 2002 The Plain Dealer. Used with permission.

=A9 2002 cleveland.com. All Rights Reserved.








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   May > May 10

              Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:31:35 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 05:25:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment -


 >From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:24:59 -0700


 >Here we are 7 days later and we still have no comment about the
 >Reed UFO Fraud from anyone associated with it.

It will very likely go one of two ways. Either some some
response that essentially denounces the investigation and
evidence and characterizes it as vicious lies and distortions.
The venue for this besides email will likely be some national
show like Art Bell or something like that.

Or they will say nothing. Personally I suspect the first.

 >Jaime Maussan and his assistant Daniel Munoz made a few comments
 >on a recent radio program, but they have to explain anything.

 >How much longer will we have to wait to hear from those
 >involved? How about the so-called investigators that proclaimed
 >'Dr. Reed' (real name John Bradley Rutter) was indeed a doctor
 >and that his bogus evidence has been scientifically examined?

Now that the results of the investigation have been published,
many of the people that supported/promoted this will move on to
the next story teller that tickles their ears. The same for the
gulliable believers.

If they hold true to form, these people will then want to talk
about other speakers, other people, other stories and so on. When
directly confronted with the evidence, we will likely then hear
storys about not wanting to dwell on the past etc etc.

If they also hold true to form, not one of them will ever say
something like "I screwed up and believed a lie" or "I got taken
in by hoax....."

 >"Dr. Reed graduated from UCLA in June of 1980. Harold Chacon,
 >who has been accused of working at a gas station, is a biologist
 >and a tutor at the Catholic University of Puerto Rico. The
 >inside part of the link artifact is not made of rubber foam;
 >it's made of carbon nano-tubes."
 >  --Jaime Maussan, 05-May-02 on a Latin American radio program.

 >How long will we have to wait? There are no excuses at this
 >point. Though the e-mail message appearing here is going to
 >those listed below, I urge people on this List and elsewhere to
 >ask the following for answers:

We may have to wait for a _long_ time.....

Cheers,

Robert







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              Highlights of McMinnville UFO Festival - Agermose

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 06:13:58 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 05:27:24 -0400
Subject: Highlights of McMinnville UFO Festival - Agermose


Source: The Oregonian, May 9, 2002,

http://www.oregonlive.com/metrosouthwest/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/=
html_standard.xsl?/base/metro_southwest_news/102051346420335446.xml

Stig

***

05/09/02

McMINNVILLE -- The truth is out there. Perhaps in McMinnville.

The third annual UFO Fest will be Friday and Saturday at Hotel
Oregon, 310 N.E. Evans St. Admission is free to most events.

Booths with UFO literature will be on display from 10 a.m. to 6
p.m. Friday and 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. Saturday. There will be slide
and video presentations followed by an open forum Friday
evening.

"2001: A Space Odyssey" will play both evenings at the Mack
Theater, across the street from the hotel. There is a charge for
the movie.

The Mack Theater will host a UFO film festival from 9 to 11:30
a.m. Saturday. A parade will begin at 2 p.m. Saturday along
Third Street, and an alien costume ball with live music and
prizes for the best costumes will be from 8 to 11 p.m. at the
hotel.

For information, 888-472-8427.

**

=A9 2002 OregonLive.com. All Rights Reserved.








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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 06:43:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:33:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Kaeser


 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >Hi All,

<snip>

 >I would like a clearer definition of the role that photographic
 >evidence plays in establishing the reality of the presence of
 >UFOs on our world. And let's leave aside any consideration of
 >who is building and piloting these craft or where they may be
 >from. Let's just speak of the photographs as evidence that real
 >and solid, unknown, objects are circumnavigating our skies.

 >Any takers?


Photographs, video clips, and other recorded material are
subject to some level of interpretation which inserts the
viewers personal beliefs (or reality) into the mix.

The rules of evidence, with regard to photographs (etc), depends
in part on the target audience. There is no universal definition
of what would be accepted, and I think that even among those on
this list you'll find a vast spectrum of interpretations for
many of them.

A picture may be worth a thousand words, but for many it's all
just talk.... <g>


Steve








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                    Fairfield Co. Weekly: UFOs Revisited

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:58:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:36:45 -0400
Subject: Fairfield Co. Weekly: UFOs Revisited


This item is from the Fairfield County Weekly's cover story
archive. It was published on March 9, 2000, but hasn't been
brought to the UFO community's attention before, as far as I
know. It takes a comprehensive and well-founded look on the
subject and is still worth reading.

URL:

http://www.fairfieldweekly.com/articles/ufos.html

Stig

***

While society has embraced aliens as part of our modern mythology,
are we ready to handle biological competition of that magnitude?

By Stefanie Ramp

Above: The Westchester Boomerang: An artist's rendering of the
Hudson Valley UFO, which has been routinely described by
witnesses as a triangular object larger than a football field
with a "V" of lights.

**

It was 17 years ago this month when the phenomenon known as the
Hudson Valley UFO commenced its high-profile tour through the
Northeast. Particularly fond of Westchester County, it was
nicknamed the "Westchester Boomerang," though it spent a great
deal of time in Connecticut as well.

Hundreds of local citizens reported sightings to the police and
numerous police officers witnessed the spectacle firsthand.
According to Philip Imbrogno, a UFO investigator and co- author
of Night Siege: The Hudson Valley UFO Sightings (written with
Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Bob Pratt), which chronicles the most
impressive reports, more than 5,000 people have reported seeing
a triangular- or boomerang- shaped object larger than a football
field hovering in our skies.

The Hudson Valley UFO sightings occurred with surprising
regularity throughout the 1980s, and the phenomenon was
immortalized in Communion, Whitley Streiber's autobiographical
account of abduction from his cabin in Pine Bush, N. Y. The
sightings continue to this day, though with much less frequency.
Mark Cashman of the Connecticut chapter of the Mutual UFO
Network (MUFON) said that although investigators are unsure why,
UFO phenomenon has always come in waves since it was first
tracked in the late 1940s.

The Hudson Valley sightings were so widespread in the 1980s that
the Hudson Valley UFO barely registers as an anomaly anymore.
Rather, it seems to have been embraced as a local bragging
right.

Numerous people I know personally profess to have seen it,
including one woman who was walking around downtown Fairfield,
Conn., with a friend one night about 12 years ago when the
phenomenon appeared cruising over the center of town. A
Fairfield police officer patrolling nearby witnessed it as well.
Everyone who has seen it describes nearly the same thing: a
triangular object larger than a football field with a "V" of
lights moving at about 25 miles-per- hour, only a couple hundred
feet up in the sky, making little or no noise -- far less than
any airplane.

Local authorities alternately blamed the phenomena on military
aircraft, though no agency would take credit for them, and
motorized hang gliders called ultralights allegedly rigged with
special effects lighting. This latter theory persisted despite
the fact that ultralight experts testified that such a hoax
would be impossible to pull off; it's also illegal to fly
ultralights at night, which is when the vast majority of the
Hudson Valley sightings took place.

**

Though no logical explanation seems to exist for the Hudson
Valley UFO, it certainly doesn't prove the existence of another
intelligent life force. However, there are many people who claim
to be in contact with alien intelligence as a result of, or in
conjunction with, the Hudson Valley sightings.

In the course of researching this story, one of my sources
insisted that it was no accident I'd decided to write about
UFOs. He believed that some alien intelligence was in telepathic
communication with me and informing my decision to delve into a
topic that is routinely ridiculed by the scientific community
and in the media.

I certainly don't have a rational answer as to why the subject
fascinates me; people's reactions to the possibility of alien
life intrigues me as much as the possibility of alien life
itself. The heyday of the Hudson Valley sightings was long
before I moved to the East Coast from Indiana; I thought UFOs
only harassed red necks in the Midwest.

Imbrogno has heard so many contact reports -- close to 300 - -
  that he co-authored a sequel to Night Siege with Marianne
Horrigan called Contact of the 5th Kind. Imbrogno now lives in
Danbury, Conn., and has taught science at the Windward School in
White Plains, N. Y., for nearly 20 years. He also sits on the
board of directors at the Bowman Observatory in Greenwich and
writes a soon-to-be syndicated astronomy column for the
Greenwich Time.

In a recent interview, Imbrogno noted that while absolute proof
of UFOs and extra-terrestrial phenomenon remains elusive, he's
been confronted with a multitude of very convincing evidence
through his investigations. One of the most impressive cases
Imbrogno handled in conjunction with the Hudson Valley UFO was
that of Dean Fagerstrom of Brewster, N. Y. Although Imbrogno
estimates that more than 90 percent of "channeling cases," or
instances where a non-human presence communicates through an
individual, are decidedly "bunk," he believes that Fagerstrom
may be one of the very few individuals in communication with
non-human intelligence.

(Drawing: Donestra Made Him Do It: An alien telescope (left) and
a photon accelerator, part of a group of 32 diagrams of
futuristic technology drawn by Dean Fagerstrom of Brewster,
N.Y.)

Fagerstrom, now in his late 60s, was a security specialist after
an 11-year military career and a stint in Vietnam. During a
recent interview with the Weekly, Fagerstrom explained that he's
been experiencing bizarre phenomenon all his life.

Fagerstrom, who fled the seminary in his early 20s, said that
what most people would consider to be alien and religious
phenomenon is all part of the same spiritual destiny for him. He
claims that in 1964, an Adonis-like entity named Donestra,
hailing from the planet Solarian, visited him while he was
working on some peculiar mathematical sequences which, according
to Imbrogno, were designed to predict the lottery.

Fagerstrom maintains that Donestra helped him win the lottery,
but he said that Donestra's real interest in his equations had
to do with a divine form of mathematics based on the true date
of Christ's birth. "[Donestra] discussed various things that I
was aware of at least in theory, but not so much factually the
way he expressed it, and this was to the effect that there were
multiple civilizations and he was one representative and he was
particularly interested in my mathematical pursuits which had
begun at that time and have continued to this day," Fagerstrom
explained.

Fagerstrom claims that a divine entity named Aphax has channeled
this revelatory mathematical system through him, which he
compiled in an unpublished manuscript called the "Book of
Anglion." He believes it will spark a revolution in the field of
computer science.

According to Fagerstrom, Anglion is the name of a spiritual
society in "the other world" headed by Emmanuel Swedenborg who
was a Swedish theologian, scientist and philosopher who lived
from 1688 to1772. Much of Fagerstrom's spiritual and extra-
terrestrial ideologies seem to come from Swedenborg's work,
which he referenced often during our interview.

**

Despite his fantastical tangents, Fagerstrom has interested
Imbrogno since their first meeting in 1982 because of the
material Fagerstrom has produced ostensibly through contact with
Donestra and several other angelic and extra-terrestrial
entities.

On Jan. 9, 1968, Fagerstrom says he awoke at 4 a.m. and saw
something that looked like an old-fashioned microphone hovering
in the air over his bed. It approached him with an extended
needle-like probe, which began vibrating and made his whole head
and body resonate.

Fagerstrom then felt compelled to draw multiple diagrams
depicting various kinds of futuristic technology; he allegedly
shut himself up in a room for three days and produced 32
diagrams. While well- executed for someone who claims to have no
art or engineering background, the designs don't provide the
specifics of construction or purpose. The diagrams, which
Fagerstrom gave to Imbrogno, impressed the late Dr. Allen Hynek
who worked with Imbrogno on Night Siege. Hynek was an
astrophysicist who served as the Air Force's UFO consultant when
UFO phenomenon was under official investigation throughout the
'50s and '60s. He was later a Professor of Astronomy at
Northwestern University.

According to Imbrogno, the late John Stokes, an associate of
Hynek's, constructed a helical coil depicted in one of
Fagerstrom's diagrams. It allegedly produced an electromagnetic
pulse much greater than any similar technology can produce
today, but the coil burned itself out within a matter of
seconds. No further attempts to build Fagerstrom's diagrams have
been made.

In 1972, Fagerstrom was staring down at a blank clipboard when
he started writing pages of unidentifiable symbols, which look
something like Arabic. Fagerstrom believes he was channeling an
angelic language which delivered a subliminal message to him
though he's unclear on what that message was.

A linguist told Imbrogno that the writing appeared to be a
language similar to ancient Babylonian (Sumerian, according to
Fagerstrom) with more than 200 characters. Sixteen years later,
Fagerstrom allegedly produced more inexplicable material through
channeling. Despite the fact that he can't play the piano,
Fagerstrom claims to have spontaneously played 100 compositions,
which he attributes to the pianist Franz Liszt who lived from
1811 to 1886.

Fagerstrom recalled a vision he had in 1988 of a 42-foot piano
which Liszt played before a celestial audience of whom he said,
"They were in heavenly ecstasy because this music was
penetrating their very beings and it was telling them internal
kinds of secrets which had nothing to do with notes."

Imbrogno says he's heard Fagerstrom in action and believes he
had no pre-existing musical skill, but proof is slippery and
restricted to Fagerstrom's word.

Fagerstrom said he has seen many UFOs over the years and claims
that Donestra attributed the multitude of visitations to the
fact that Jesus, a divinity recognized by all cosmic
civilizations, was born on Earth. Fagerstrom said his various
strange experience have left him with a sense of purpose. "I
want to see a love for the truth, a love for God and a love for
each other. This is everything."

**

Assigning motivations to alien life forms has become something
of a national pastime spawning countless hypothesis. While
Fagerstrom believes extra-terrestrials are manifestations of the
divine, MUFON's investigator Peter Jordan adamantly maintains
that the phenomena he's investigated is not so benign.

"Whatever this is, it does do physical things, and many of those
things are physically harmful. This is a phenomenon that is
extremely selfish and in many cases extremely sinister. It is
certainly deceptive and that alone makes it unworthy of being
embraced completely. I mean it can be studied, yes, but
embraced, no."

Jordan, a national lecturer on paranormal occurrences, has
noticed a link between supernatural phenomenon and occurrences
that are generally associated with extra- terrestrials; he
suggests one common denominator is a controversial concept
called plasma. Plasma, which in simple terms is ionized
particles, has been called the fourth state of matter. According
to Jordan, although most scientists believe in it theoretically,
it's incredibly difficult to study in a controlled environment.

Jordan says that plasma, created when quartz crystals are placed
under extreme pressure, may be partially responsible for many
anomalies in various parts of the country. "The Hudson Valley
region is one of those areas that has always attracted an
incredible bevy of paranormal phenomenon," Jordan said.

Based on his research and personal experience, Jordan theorized
that plasma can create a ball of traveling light consistent with
many sightings attributed to both ghosts and aliens. Plasma may
be an alternate life form, according to some researchers,
including a physicist at London University who told Jordan he
believed plasma was organic matter. Plasma is one of the many
oddities being investigated by Vesitigia, a nonprofit and
independent national organization of scientists studying
paranormal activity of which Jordan is a member.

Although he believes there is a lot going on for which we have
no explanation, including UFO phenomenon, Jordan is more
skeptical about abduction and contact cases -- particularly
those remembered through hypnosis. "In the year 2000, every
single person on every single street corner in the United States
knows what's involved in a UFO scenario. So all you end up with
is a mirror-like reflection of that scenario. It's circular
reasoning," he argues.

Further muddying the waters, Jordan suggests that if alien
abductions are really taking place, this non-human intelligence
may be interacting with our consciousness and helping to shape
our perception of extra-terrestrial life. In other words, the
shape- shifting entity appears in the form we expect it to take;
for most of us that's the hydrocephalic creature with the big
eyes.

Jordan also suspects that the government is responsible for at
least some of the phenomenon attributed to alien sources.
Without divulging the specifics, he explained that his research
has led him to believe that the government may attempt to
simulate alien intelligence for the sake of psychological
experimentation. When I admonished Jordan for leaving me more
confused than ever he quipped, "Why are you expecting a simple
answer from aliens?"

Most UFO investigators believe that the government knows
something it's not telling us and has no plans of enlightening
the public anytime soon. Peter Gersten, a founding member of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, or CAUS (Ufolawyer@caus.org), has
brought several lawsuits against the U. S. government in an
effort to uncover its knowledge of UFO and extra-terrestrial
phenomenon.

Gersten began his career as a prosecutor for the Kings County
District Attorney's office in Brooklyn and then went into
private practice. In 1977, he was hired by Ground Saucer Watch
to acquire CIA documents concerning UFO phenomenon under the
newly enacted Freedom of Information Act. "Low and behold, about
a year later, the CIA released 900 pages of documents on a
subject that they had stated up until that time that not only
weren't they studying but basically didn't exist," Gersten
recalled in a recent interview. "The CIA documents confirmed the
reality of the objects. "

In addition to the 900 released documents, 57 others were found
but withheld on the grounds of national security, thereby
setting a precedent that UFOs were considered real enough to
affect national security.

Several hundred more documents were found that originated in
other agencies and were out of CIA jurisdiction. All agencies
eventually released the documents voluntarily except for the
National Security Agency, which continues to withhold 135
documents on the grounds of national security despite several
appeals.

Gersten has two suits pending, one of which seeks the release of
Department of Defense documents pertaining to the Hudson Valley
UFO. The DOD claims it has no such documents, but the case
received a favorable motion in February when a judge ruled the
DOD must share its search methods and prove that it conducted a
thorough investigation for the documents.

Gersten's real interest lies in the "intelligence behind the
UFOs" and he insists he can prove in a court of law beyond a
reasonable doubt that we are in contact with another
intelligence, which he believes is non-biological and co-exists
with us on this planet independent of the laws of physics as we
understand them. "It's my belief that this intelligence takes
different forms depending on the evolutionary and historical
status of our species," he explained. "At one point it was
angels, at another point gods, here it's extra- terrestrials
because that's where we're at."

**

While none of these theories can be proved or disproved, the
proliferation of UFO phenomenon and philosophy tends to muddy
the very real and indisputable evidence of unidentified flying
objects that researchers have collected over the last 50 years.

Mark Cashman, state director of MUFON's Connecticut chapter,
applies as much hard science to his investigations as possible
and has even developed a system of measurement called
triangulation, similar to methods used by surveyors to more
accurately assess the size, distance and speed of reported UFOs.

Cashman is the first to admit that UFO research is constrained
by the fact that the field is primarily populated by amateurs
and believes no real progress will be made until the government
and scientific community support UFO research. He's not holding
his breath.

Although the government now scoffs at UFO research -- the
Federal Aviation Administration and FBI barely kept a straight
face when I asked if either agency has any current involvement
with UFO reports -- its attitude used to be quite different.

"The history of this field has sort of vaporized for the modern
generation," Cashman says. "They don't realize that during the
1950s and '60s there was tremendous ferment in this field and
that the government at various times was really relatively open
in terms of what they were doing."

The government, primarily via the Air Force, conducted official
UFO research until 1969 when it turned the project over to the
University of Colorado, Boulder. By this time, UFO phenomenon
had attracted enough fringe groups, eccentrics and hoaxes that
scientists were beginning to dismiss it despite the general
persistent interest.

According to Cashman, the University of Colorado was a bit
sheepish about taking on the project but needed the grant money.
A memo later surfaced that advised those involved to make it
look to the public like the project was being taken seriously
but make it understood by the scientific community that it
wasn't.

"Despite the fact that the project's findings were that they
couldn't explain 30 percent of the sightings that they were
given, the project director said there was nothing to it and
that science shouldn't be paying attention," Cashman explained.
"It was a disaster for people who wanted to find out what was
going on scientifically because this was a very high-prestige
study."

Colorado's attitude effectively ended official study of UFOs and
ensured that no grant money would be forthcoming for future
projects. "It's possible that if the study had swung the other
way and had simply said, 'This is interesting, we should give
some people some grants to look at this stuff,' we would know a
tremendous amount by now and the fringe would never have come
into it," Cashman said.

It's important to remember that legitimizing the existence of UFOs
isn't the same as sanctioning the reality of extra- terrestrials.
UFOs are simply things in the sky that science can't explain.
Documents released through Gersten's lawsuits prove that there have
been many flying objects that science can't explain.

One of the most respected sources for government documentation
of UFOs is E.J. Ruppelt's book The Report On Unidentified Flying
Objects published in 1956. Ruppelt was an Air Force captain and
headed the government's official UFO research, Project Blue
Book, during the early '50s.

He was involved with multiple sightings, both on military radar
and by the eyewitness accounts of Air Force pilots. One of the
most incredible sightings took place on Sept. 12, 1953. An
object was picked up on radar and two F-84s were dispatched to
follow it, which they did although the object wouldn't let them
get any closer than three miles.

"That intercept by the airforce is highly credible," Cashman
remarked. "We've got military pilots, military radar operators,
we've got multiple people seeing the same thing with different
kinds of modalities -- they're seeing it with radar, they're
seeing it with their eyes, they're flying up to it. That to me
is the kind of stuff to focus in on."

There are many reports of the Air Force chasing after these
objects and also evidence of them firing on UFOs. According to
Cashman, there's even documentation from the 1950s of a radar
trace indicating an object traveling at speeds greater than
9,000 miles an hour. Our modern M.A.C.H. technology can't even
produce those kinds of speeds.

Cashman is cautious about UFO evidence and focuses on definitive
scientific proof rather than theory in his search for the truth
which, although it's undoubtedly out there, won't be forthcoming
anytime soon.

If a non-human intelligence is responsible for UFOs, the
realization of this truth will overturn every belief system
humanity has ever held or created. While society has embraced
aliens as part of our modern mythology, I'm not sure we're ready
to handle biological competition of that magnitude. However, the
last thing we should do is stumble blindly into this potential
reality. "If this is true, if what appears on the surface is in
fact true, it's got to be one of the most important things we
could know about the universe," Cashman said.

**

Copyright =A92000 New Mass. Media, Inc. All rights reserved.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 10

              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:19:47 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:23:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White


 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >I'm sure we can all agree that photographs and videotape cannot
 >prove 'where' a recorded object came from, or 'who' manufactured
 >it. But it remains a conundrum to me that images (that proved
 >after careful analysis not to have been hoaxed/created) of solid
 >objects are not considered hard evidence for the 'presence' of
 >something out of the ordinary. UFOs.

<snip>

 >If I were to tell you that there is a ceramic inlay with the
 >word "Imagine" built into the path that leads to the 'Strawberry
 >Field' in Central Park, and then I showed you a picture of it,
 >nobody would question it. There it would be in the photo. Yet
 >when I report a UFO and show the pictures I took, the photos
 >have _no_value_ as evidence. I don't get that.

 >I would like a clearer definition of the role that photographic
 >evidence plays in establishing the reality of the presence of
 >UFOs on our world. And let's leave aside any consideration of
 >who is building and piloting these craft or where they may be
 >from. Let's just speak of the photographs as evidence that real
 >and solid, unknown, objects are circumnavigating our skies.

 >Any takers?


The problem of photographic evidence being rejected by the media
and skeptics may well be a result of lack of clear, cogent
rebuttals. The same type of clear, cogent rebuttal you have
written above. To make such rebuttal effective, it has to be put
forth right at the time the denial is spoken or published.
Timing is critical.

Photographs are evidence, period. If they weren't, why does
every police department use them to back up their cases?

One could ask the question: "Well, if photos verified as not
being faked are not evidence, shouldn't we release immediately
every prisoner convicted on the basis of photographic evidence?"

In other words, a sprinkling of 'activist attitude' would not
hurt at all, in getting verified photos accepted by the media
and the skeptics. 'Minuteman readiness' to fire off those
rebuttals wouldn't hurt either.

Eleanor White







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 10

                         Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Munoz

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:22:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:34:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Munoz


 >From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:06:56 -0700
 >Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment

 >>From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment
 >>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:24:59 -0700

 >>Here we are 7 days later and we still have no comment about the
 >>Reed UFO Fraud from anyone associated with it.

 >>Jaime Maussan and his assistant Daniel Munoz made a few comments
 >>on a recent radio program, but they have to explain anything.

 >>Jaime Maussan
 >>jaimemaussan@ovnis.com.mx

 >>Daniel Munoz
 >>Ovnimexico1@aol.com

 >>While this is not a list of everyone with some direct connection
 >>this UFO fraud, these are the prominent people associated with
 >>it and promoting it.

<snip>

 >>Demand accountability.

<snip>

 >Daniel Munoz's e- mail account is no good now

 >Maussan's box is full

 >I know that Munoz and Maussan both read this List.....

 >Day 8 and still no answers... any guesses on the excuses we will
 >be given?


Dear Royce and List,

Replying to your last messages posted on UFO UpDates e-list
regarding the Reed Hoax, asking for an answer:

I, Daniel Mu=F1oz, have to tell you and to all the friends on this
List, that I decided to unsubscribe from this List because the
large amount of traffic in my in-box months ago, preferring to
read all the news directly on Internet. So I decided not to
participate directly in the discussion forum, and this is the
reason because I am asking my friend Virgilio S=E1nchez-Ocejo to
post this reply in the List, due to the need and request for an
answer from your part.

I, Daniel Mu=F1oz, don't work alongside with Jaime Maussan any
longer. As a personal decision, I came to Europe for a living,
and certainly stopped all my activities in the Mexican office
with him. Yes, now I participate in the radio show they have in
Mexico City via phone, but just as an external consultant or
researcher if you like, and not getting involved with him and
his activities in Mexico. For whoever that would like to listen
it, you can do it in Spanish via the Internet in the Ciudad de
Mexico link, in "escuchar" 104.9 FM within this url:

http://www.exafm.com.mx

This program is broadcast totally live every Sunday from 19:00
to 21:00 central Time, from Mexico City.

Yes, I'm still involved very deeply with the UFO research, and
still in touch with my friends all over the world on this
matter. Also with the Mexicans, of course. I decided to follow
my own path, separately from Jaime Maussan's one, also due to
the fact there were differences in appreciation and criteria
regarding the way of researching. Now I'm also writing on the
subject, and yes, Reed's case will be within my interests and
goals, 'cause its importance in the field, also thanks to your
investigations.

Royce, I was in touch with you long ago, and you asked me to
tell you exactly where I was present in Seattle confirming if
there were photos or videos of reed there and so on. You
remember? More or less at the time when I stopped my link with
virtuallystrange, at that time under the other name, Ufomind if
I don't remember it wrongly... Anyway, I was at that time
looking for evidences, and as for a question of ethics, I was
unable to give you any clue on those places or names or phone
numbers, as I suppose yourself would do it by giving me some
sensitive info, always within the ethics and respect circles. As
you know, I was the only person in that Mexican staff in being
there present in Seattle to confirm the truth or false in this
case. Nobody else but me. And I was able to find many
interesting things at a scientific level, that could amaze many
scientists and UFO researchers and enthusiast... Things still to
be revealed, but that don't depend on me, because I left all
those videotapes back in Mexico City, containing all that info.
Certainly I will write very soon about that, and I will issue my
own vision of the Reed Case, even including, if you allow me to
do so, your points, that are quite interesting at all, but not
conclusive, as I think you will agree...

I can tell you and to all the friends on the list this: I have
been able to know and see by myself many things around Reed and
his staff that were very contradictory. Yes, there was something
in there, because the evidences told me so. But I have to tell
that also found or saw other things in Reed, that allowed me to
understand that the 100% was not true at all... As many other
cases we know of, there was something real in the beginning, but
later, the human part also entered in scene, and you all know
the results of this...

I cannot judge just by your findings (congratulations, by the
way, for your tenacity) that case, dear Royce, as I couldn't do
it either just with all those things I found by getting there in
Seattle and by scratching the soil and the trees, analyzing
later in the labs the samples obtained that way, everything on
video. It is necessary to put all the elements together, and
then, to see if that is the whole story, or well, as I suspect,
if there are missing elements, as I was able to confirm.

Yes, is very difficult to know if the so called "link bracelet"
is really functioning. Is existing, 'cause I touched and filmed
it by myself, but never seen it working as Reed or McEvoy say it
works. I'd like, as I think the most of the Mexicans do, to
watch a video where is possible to observe its functioning. Or
even better, to make it personally by myself... To be published
or broadcast, logically...

Yes. I'm still in touch with Reed, even if it is only via E-
mail, as many people can do. You know how to do it. But it is in
the very same way I could say I'm still in touch with you,
Royce... You don't really know me, my friend, as I have never
meet or see you ever. And I would like it very much, in order to
talk, in front of a cup of coffee or Coca Cola or whatever, our
findings. Not with the aim of destroy someone, but to exchange
impressions about what is interesting for both of us, without
trying to be the best or the first. Just behaving as
professional researchers, as I think both of us have showed we
are.

My involvement with Jaime Maussan shouldn't be interpreted as a
factual collaboration, 'cause we are apart 9,000 kilometers away
from each other. I think that says too much, Royce. My comments
in the last radio show (I was surprised you hear it in Spanish!
Good for you!) were, if you really understood'em, not in favor
of Reed, because I was the person who sent them a copy of your
recently published findings with the photos and so on. Jaime
Maussan never reads Virtuallystrange.net, and I sent for them in
Mexico that info, 'cause I considered interesting. That's it.
Nobody could say that I was warning them, as it was said,
because in my weekly Notiovni I publish this and many other
subjects, totally freely, for whoever request that info in
Spanish language ( notiovni@yahoo.com  or notiovni@hotmail.com ).
I just wanted to talk about the news in the world, that for me
are totally more interesting than Reed's case, by the way...
Yes, I sent that info also to Reed, who replied to me very soon,
telling me that your discoveries were a new campaign of
discredit and debunk... Those are personal conversations and
will never been published, for the ethics and respect I
mentioned above ( I would never publish a word of what we spoke
long ago, for instance, Royce, even if somebody asks me to do
so), but I was surprised for the speed of replying... Even if,
as I was said by my friends in Mexico, Jaime Maussan said Reed
was kidnapped or something like that... I was also very
surprised in watching him in the studio at the radio station
through the web cam, 'cause I didn't know he was in Mexico!...
But you are free to believe me or not... That's your right...

I move myself always trying to find the truth in a very
difficult subject as the UFO field offers to the researcher. The
real researcher, of course. And Royce, you are doing something
interesting. I am unable to offer now many images 'cause I came
without my archives to Europe, but I promise it will be
published as an insider, 'cause I was able to enter very deeply
in certain aspects of that case. And if Jaime Maussan said what
he actually said publicly in Otro Rollo TV Show on June 2001, is
his problem. I cannot speak in his place...

I can assure you and to all of you at all the e-lists that will
receive this info, that there were soil and organic samples that
were analyzed in Mexican labs, by Mexican experts in nuclear
medicine (Dr. Zohar Guti=E9rrez), and that the results were
amazing, and curiously, very similar to the ones found in the
soil samples I brought with me from the Chilbolton crop
formations with the message and the face... And yes, I meet
personally Harold Chacon, and following your suggestions, I
personally called the Catholic University of Ponce, and spoke
personally (everything on tape) with somebody that knew and
remembered perfectly Harold as a person who was deeply involved
with Biology, who studied there getting very good results, and
that was kind of a consultant or orientation for the professors
and students of biologics sciences... Yes, I have to tell I was
also waiting that somebody at the other side of the cord would
tell me: "I'm sorry, there is no Mr. Chac=F3n, and there is no
Microbiology studies performed in here"... But there were... And
that way it was video recorded...

Royce, please don't call me again "the assistant to Jaime
Maussan", 'cause I'm not that person any longer. As I stated, I
live here in Europe and don't have that labor link with him any
longer, more than a month ago at this point. I was unable to
read your open letters asking for a reply before, but here you
are. This is certainly not a reply, but a clarification for you
and for all the friends and readers of these wonderful e-forums.
I'm available not for polemics, but for the research, and of
course, I am a follower of your discoveries, believe it or
not... But never would permit myself to attack you publicly if I
still don't meet you personally, even if I would disagree in
certain points or methodologies... How could I do it? At least,
those are not my principles...

Feel free to tell whatever you want in replying to these lines,
Royce: is always your right. But my sole and only intention is
to clarify that what I have researched is not in my hands, but
only in my mind, 'cause Jaime Maussan kept the videos in his
offices. So, whatever he does or perform or announces regarding
that, is his only and sole responsibility, and of course of all
the persons that are participating at that time in that
investigation. And that is not my case any longer. I can express
my opinion, and I will, through a press article to be published
I think for the end of the spring here in Europe. Then, you can
express your opinion on that, and let me tell you something: I
would like you to do it.

My E-mail is not ovnimexico1@aol.com cause I moved from Mexico
and canceled it, but you have available now notiovni@hotmail.com
if you want to contact me again. You or whoever would like to
express his/her opinion.

Excuses for my English. My very best regards for you and for all
the friends and readers of these e-lists.


Daniel Mu=F1oz

PD- Thank you, Virgilio. Eres muy amable. Y me encantar=EDa
conocer tu opini=F3n al respecto. Puedes publicarlo donde gustes.
Y gracias por ser realmente un Big Brother... Saludos y besos a
Maria Elena.









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   May > May 10

               Re: Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today - Cox

From: Billy Cox <bcox@flatoday.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:57:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:45:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today - Cox


 >From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 07:59:56 -0700
 >Subject: Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today

 >Errol and Listers:

 >Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today for this very informative article:

 >http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/columnstoryA18534A.htm

 >In it, Cox quotes the work of Terry Hansen, author of 'Missing
 >Times' - a must read - and Patrick Huyghe of 'The Anomalist',

 >http://www.anomalist.com

 >and author of 'The Swamp Gas Times'.

 >I find it most ironic that the very thoughts and opinions of
 >'debunkologists' could be the direct result of the government's
 >manipulation of mainstream media, that started over 50 years
 >ago and has crossed generations!

 >What is it called when a group or goverment takes direct actions
 >- covertly - to control public opinion?


Thanks, Frank.

I'm not all that sure government manipulation of the media re
UFOs is going on today; I'm naive enough to think that, given
the myriad media outlets at work now, it would be impossible for
them to pull it off.

I also don't think the government needs to bother, because the
subject has been regarded as leprosy for so long, it's become
institutional.

Go to the Disclosure Project's website and contrast the piece I
wrote about their 5/9/01 Press Conference with the piece that
Joel Auchenbach wrote for the Washington Post.

I think Joel's a smart guy, I like his writing, which makes his
stale-cliche approach to the Conference a poor reflection on his
skills as a journalist.

Oh well - enough of the rant.

Thanks for reading, write your Congressman.

Regards,

bcox







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              Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment -

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:58:11 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:59:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment -


 >From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:24:59 -0700 >>

<snip>

 >Day 8 and still no answers... any guesses on the excuses we will
 >be given?

I wish I could say the same, Royce. After our Jeff Rense airing:

I've been threatened at MUFON for my forthcoming article - in
which they have no idea what I was going to say. Perhaps I was
too close to home, knowing these guys long before this Reed
thing.

Iaria has threatened a lawsuit if, "Ms Andersen" does a character
assassination on Reed. Not sure character assassination means
telling the truth.

Chacon and Raith work at the Chevron Mini Mart and live one
block from each other and have worked together for 5 years.

Someone brought up a good point.....

What are they going to do? Go to court and say:

"She wrote an article stating what I was saying was untrue,
your honor."

"And what is that?"

"Oh, I killed an alien, put him in my freezer and the nasty
government agents took him and my identity away"?

Right!


Kathleen Andersen
MUFON








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   May > May 10

                             SDI 05-04-02 - Reed

From: Christopher Kelly <tophar@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:15:11 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:22:30 -0400
Subject: SDI 05-04-02 - Reed


Greetings List, Errol & Royce,

On last Saturday night's 'Strange Days... Indeed' program, one
of the topics was 'Jonathan Reed'. We now know he's been
stretching the truth.

Thanks to Royce for researching so deeply into the claims which
lead to the truth becoming known.

While I was listening to Royce explaining what he had found and
learnt about 'Reed', I started wondering if people like 'Reed'
weren't products of a system devoted to discrediting UFO
research and researchers?

I guess most here would be familiar with how large record
companies take a group of young people and turn them into 'Rock
Stars', even though they really have no talent. No offense to
those young people intended, I'm just using them as an example
as to how easy it is to make something out of nothing if you
know what your doing and have the resources.

So could this 'Reed' and company have beeen made into something
they are not, by some very clever marketing? And if so whom or
what is behind them?

I was wondering about this as Royce explained how the lie had
gone on for some four-years and how so many people came forth to
support 'Reed's' claims. These kind of lies, to me, would take
some organisation and considering 'Reed' worked in a Gas
Station before this, I was wondering were he found the expertise
to pull off such a convincing lie for so long? Or am I just
jumping the gun here and it really is much easier to pull
something like this than I think it is?


Stories/lies, like 'Reed's', really do a lot of damage to the
credibility of UFO research, as was pointed out by Royce, Errol
Dave, Victor and many others.

So I'm interested to know, Royce, if you found out anything
about those that organised all of this for 'Reed' or did he do
it all him self?


Cheers

Chris (Tophar)








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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:51:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 23:51:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Kaeser


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:19:47 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<snip>

 >The problem of photographic evidence being rejected by the media
 >and skeptics may well be a result of lack of clear, cogent
 >rebuttals. The same type of clear, cogent rebuttal you have
 >written above. To make such rebuttal effective, it has to be put
 >forth right at the time the denial is spoken or published.
 >Timing is critical.

 >Photographs are evidence, period. If they weren't, why does
 >every police department use them to back up their cases?

Police departments have photographs and video that is much
easier to identify and relate to than complete unknowns (unless
you happen to have a good close-up shot on hand as a
comparison). I would also agree that they are used primarily to
back up a case, rather than serve as the only evidence. In
truth, most people confronted with photographic evidence
probably plead guilty and the question of photographic veracity
is never brought up. That doesn't make veracity any less of an
issue for our purposes here.

 >One could ask the question: "Well, if photos verified as not
 >being faked are not evidence, shouldn't we release immediately
 >every prisoner convicted on the basis of photographic evidence?"

Only if that photographic evidence is as vague and highly
interpreted enough to leave "doubt" in the minds of the jury.
One would hope that their attornies fought that battle in court.


Steve







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   May > May 11

                   Fortean Times UnConvention 2002 Report

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 19:20:09 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 00:06:56 -0400
Subject: Fortean Times UnConvention 2002 Report


Source: The Fortean Times,

http://forteantimes.com/exclusive/uncon02.shtml

Go to the site for photos and further information on the
Unconvention 2002!

Stig

***

Our Secret Commonwealth

**

UnCon 2002 was a huge success and here, to torment you with what
you missed and to tantalise you into coming next year, is our
own convention report, compiled by our man behind the scenes,
Jack Phoenix.

Charles Fort, a man who dedicated his life to amassing records
of wonders, would still have been amazed, I think, both at the
magazine which bears his name, and at the congregation of massed
forteans who gathered at London's Commonwealth Institute to
enjoy the Fortean Times UnConvention 2002. In the forecourt of
the Institute, the Commonwealth flags, a strange reminder of
Britain's imperial past, were at half-mast in respect of the
death of a very old, extremely rich lady - the last British
empress, described by one infamous grand conspiracy enthusiast
as a wicked alien reptile, and Europe's Chief Toad. Behind the
flags looms the Institute itself, an imposingly weird
construction like a grounded Mothership. And so, my thoughts
already turning to alien invasion scenarios and global
conspiracy, it's through the vestibule, into the chambers of
wonders.

After a two year hiatus, this year's promised "bigger and
better" UnCon must have been the most eagerly awaited in the
event's eight-year history. Editor Bob Rickard, arriving late
and with very few minutes to go, managed to bilocate and open
both simultaneous strands of talks on time, a paranormal feat of
which he is justly proud. Auditorium 1 buzzed with anticipation,
filled to capacity for celebrity guest, journalist and
filmmaker, Jon Ronson, whose Channel 4 series Secret Rulers of
the World, and book Them have brought global conspiracy
extremism into mainstream consciousness.

With much charm and wit, Ronson gave us insight into his five
year journey into the dark underbelly of paranoia and credulity,
and the mixture of terror and hilarity he experienced therein.
To my mind, one of his most laudable achievements lies in
getting Bilderberg founder Lord Healey to tell him to "Fuck off"
on camera, with minimum provocation. Sadly, Channel 4 showed
unusual prudery in bleeping the offending word for broadcast
despite Ronson's protestations.

Shadowed by Bilderberg security through Portugal, a panicked
Ronson tried to explain himself to staff at the British Embassy:
"I'm a humorous journalist out of my depth. I'm a bit like Louis
Theroux" - adding for our benefit that he and Theroux are like
"conjoined twins. In order for one of us to grow stronger, the
other must die."

Questioned by audience members, Ronson admitted that he believes
conspiracies do occur, but that the flow of money rules the
world and cannot be controlled by individuals. He finds the
chaos of the world frightening, but more appealing than the idea
that those who think they are in control actually are in
control. In the end, it's a question familiar to experienced
forteans, one of semantics and perception: what many see as
undemocratic and disturbing, and still others as an evil global
conspiracy, Dennis Healey sees as simply "the way things are
done" by the globalizing international capitalist elite in major
Western "democracies". Political networking or global luciferic
conspiracy? Whilst it's mooted that the Manhattan Project and
sanctions against Argentina both had their genesis at Bohemian
Grove, what excitable Americans see as a satanic ritual there,
Ronson saw as a chillingly immature and weirdly misogynistic
pantomime for holidaying CEOs and politicos. Governments and
businesses do not operate democratically. In illustration of
this, Ronson also revealed his own membership of an elite media
cabal which fixes media contracts (and therefore the content of
TV and radio) in the private interiors of Soho House and the
Groucho Club.

"I could so easily become David Icke," concluded Ronson, who
after his escapades assumed his car was bugged. "The irony is,
my paranoia comes from being a Jew, some of their's from hating
Jews."

After veteran UFOlogical heretic Jim Moseley's exposition of the
scandalous background to American Ufology, came the second high
profile speaker of the day. It's 46 years since the first
publication of Colin Wilson's The Outsider, his seminal account
of alienation which still resonates with relevance today. In the
erudite company of Gary Lachman, Wilson (both above) gave us an
illuminating account of his progress from working-class dreamer
to celebrity author, via factory, chemistry lab, civil service,
RAF, bohemianism and trampery. After a close encounter with a
bottle of cyanide, Wilson realised outsiders need not be stuck
with disillusionment and frustration. Via Graham Greene's
experiments with Russian roulette, and Abraham Maslow's
discovery of the Peak Experience route to happiness, Wilson
discovered that he could induce said Peak Experiences by staring
at a biro. Once the biro has occupied the whole of your
attention and produced pain behind the eyes, continue the
operation until you Peak. It's that simple, folks.

Before his biro epiphany, and on Aldous Huxley's recommendation,
Wilson took mescaline. During the 24 hour trip, he experienced a
peculiar sense of relaxation, a total connection, and psychism.
"It was a feeling of total happiness and benevolence," said
Wilson. "I loathed it." Wilson's final revelation was that he
achieves a similar state by consuming radishes. Enquiries as to
the particular variety have thus far proved fruitless.

Without the aid of radishes, Mike Jay cantered through the
extraordinary life of 18th century tea merchant James Tilly
Matthews. Usually consigned to a footnote in the annals of
madness, Matthews' account of his persecution by a fiendish gang
of invisible pneumatic chemists, as recorded by his Bedlam
psychiatrist, is full of details of the kinds of mental tortures
he endured: Lobster Cracking, Brain Lengthening, and Apoplexy
Working with the Nutmeg Grater (to name but a few) effected
remotely by an Air Loom fuelled by all manner of noxious gunk.
Matthews' case is the first recorded example of the
schizophreniform Influencing Machine delusion, a subject with
much relevance in today's world of alleged mind control
conspiracies. This is a rich seam of fortean material, and Jay's
book on the subject is eagerly awaited.

Doug Skinner was aided by a ventriloquial talking frog in his
exploration of his friendship with John Keel and that cluster of
High Weirdness that is the Mothman Phenomenon. But things got
decidedly weirder on the ventriloquial front with a typically
hilarious and mind-expanding performance by Fort enthusiast Ken
Campbell.

Quoting from Lo!, Campbell began with his customary invocation
of our very own poet of the peculiar:

"A naked man in a city street - the track of a horse in volcanic
mud - the mystery of reindeer's ears, a huge black form like a
whale, in the sky, and it drips red drops as if attacked by
celestial swordfishes - an appalling cherub appears in the sea -

"Confusions.

"Showers of frogs and blizzards of snails - gushes of
periwinkles down from the sky - The preposterous, the grotesque,
the incredible - and why, if I am going to tell of hundreds of
these, is the quite ordinary so regarded?"

No stranger to the world of Pneumatic Chemistry himself,
Campbell invited Judd Charlton, Mark Lockyer, Neil Edmonds, Josh
Darcy and Davina Hemlall, all members of the Nina Plashwit
Academy of Gastromancy and the Allied Arts, to suck rogue
spirits into their stomachs via the loon-pipe and encourage them
to talk. Campbell concluded by inviting experienced libidinist
Mouse on stage to bare her bumboe, cakes, binkie and all, and
demonstrate the much-fabled effluvial fountain, a well kept
secret of seasoned exorcists. Mike Jay waited in the wings with
a bucket to collect fuel for his reconstruction of the Matthews
Air Loom. As Campbell drew aside his jacket from Mouse's rear
like a gnomish toreador, there were gasps of mingled disbelief
and incipient hysteria in the audience. Mouse bunched tight her
bamsie strings and shot forth an arc of ectoplasmic effluvia,
showering the Sci-Fi Channel TV crew, and one gentleman in the
audience who, judging by his beatific expression, seemed to
think his luck was in. The video of this will certainly be a
fortean collector's item.

Day Two began with a brief tour of the stalls. ASSAP
(Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena)
were on hand to test punters' mental mettle in a series of ten
paranormal experiments, from water divining to computerized
Zener cards. Chairman Phil Walton (no relation to abductee
Travis) tells me that some forteans again produced astonishingly
negative psi effects by scoring less than chance would suggest:
one Zener card guesser managed to score zero. Remote spoon-
  bending also proved impossible, although one attendee gave
herself a fright by remotely moving a set of scales, and
managing to make the glass dish on the scales crash into the
glass case in which they were contained. Full results on the
ASSAP website.

Elsewhere, the Libra Centre had set up a little shop of auras,
and their photograph revealed the plethora of helpful sprites
who dance in attendance about my head. Then on to a chat with
Tarona, former telephonic psychic to Princess Diana, who gave me
an excellent forecast for the year ahead - though I shall be
steering clear of Parisian underpasses all the same. The best
UnCon weirdness always happens near the bar: one stall holder
encountered a punter who claimed to be half-alien, whilst
another was alleged to have briefly shape-shifted.

My paranormal abilities fully charged, I managed to bilocate and
attend both strands of talks. Whilst Doug Skinner (minus frog)
demonstrated that scientists tend to disagree according to
social patterns, attempt to find definitive answers via the
pretence of scientific method, and themselves believe less than
20% of data contained in their own peer-reviewed journals,
Lionel Fanthorpe speeded towards the triumphant conclusion that
the World's most Fortean Object is the human brain - not just
his own, but everyone's. The motorbiking reverend rounded things
off with a vocal eulogy accompanied by the impressive presence
of cryptozoologist Jon Downes.

Peter Brookesmith, scourge of the UFOlogically credulous, gave a
masterful review of the Betty and Barney Hill abduction,
revealing the Hills to be both highly hypnotizable and possibly
inspired by an episode of the TV show Outer Limits. The origin
of hypnotic treatments, opined Brookesmith, was in finding
material to fill in mental lacunae in a meaningful and
therapeutic way, not as attempts to discover the 'truth.'

The day's most anticipated talk was surely that of Graham
Hancock (right), who arrived hot foot from India. Fuelled by his
exasperation at the stolid conservatism of mainstream European
archaeologists, and battling against a recalcitrant slide
projector, Hancock gave us a compelling account of his latest
attempts to discover the Lost Civilization which disappeared
under the waves after the last ice age. This is truly cutting-
  edge stuff, transforming our ideas about the origins of human
civilisation and demonstrating that mythological data should not
be damned: it can lead to exciting discoveries.

Paul Devereux offered a typically level-headed account of our
disappearing spectral landscape, whilst a stunningly vampish
Gail-Nina Anderson explored the cultural evolution of the
vampire mythos demonstrating the ways in which fiction (Dracula)
impels us to distort and reinvent history (Vlad Tepes) in wish-
  fulfilling ways. Filip Coppens gave an over-view of the latest
developments in the apparently interminable X-Files franchise,
whilst Gary Lachman, somewhat the worse for an evening with
Colin Wilson and several bottles of wine, delved into the occult
roots of both classical and rock music as set- forth in his
recent tome Turn Off Your Mind.

This year's UnCon ended with a panel of Ufologists attempting to
discuss the putative death of Ufology. At one point, until
referee Mark Pilkington (still looking for his small coffin)
intervened, it looked as though a punch-up might ensue between
an increasingly beleaguered Colin Bennett and the rest of the
panel. This disappointment was eclipsed by an emerging consensus
- although there were expressions of disquiet that the panel was
biased towards scepticism. The rest of the panel (r-l above:
John Rimmer, Judith Jafaar, Jim Moseley, Andy Roberts, David
Clarke, Paul Devereux and Peter Brookesmith) appeared to agree
that the ETH has deprived people from exercising their
intellects in a more meaningful way, that the phenomenon will
endure even if we don't discover an alien toothbrush, that there
have been no uncontaminated case since 1947, and that even if we
called Ufology 'Elsie' it would still be hijacked by the
mythologizing ETH lobby. Most tellingly, Ufology was seen as
inseparable from the study of religion. Not dead, but smelling
increasingly funny.

And so closed the fortean event of the year. If one criticism
were to be levelled, it is that there's just too much to see and
do, what with the demands of the body and the desire to network.
My apologies to all those I didn't get to see this time. My
ability to bilocate is temperamental- at one point I found
myselves both in the bar and the green room, when I could have
experienced Richard Freeman (Dragons of the Mekong Delta), Doc
Shiels (HEADcase), Phil Walton (Paranormal Olympics), Jan
Bondeson (Buried Alive!), Steve Jones (Hooded Entities), Colin
Bennett (Scepticism as Mystique), Robin Simmons (Noah's Ark),
Andy Roberts and David Clarke (UFOs and the MOD), Adam Davies
(Sumatran Yeti) and all the other riches the weekend produced.
But roll on UnCon 2003 and FT's 30th Anniversary, and see for
yourself what a treasure trove the event has become.







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              Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment -

From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:17:27 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 00:13:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment -


 >From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:58:11 EDT
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment -

<snip>

 >"Oh, I killed an alien, put him in my freezer and the nasty
 >government agents took him and my identity away"?

 >Right!


Great sense of humor, Kathleen!!! It is good to have that in
cases such as 'Reed'. Oh yeah. Or what should we do when we hear
a guy saying: "Oh, I killed an alien, put him in my freezer and
the nasty government agents took him and my identity away."?

I've had some very good laughs about it.

Thanks Kathleen!

A. J.







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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:24:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 00:18:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:19:47 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>I'm sure we can all agree that photographs and videotape cannot
 >>prove 'where' a recorded object came from, or 'who' manufactured
 >>it. But it remains a conundrum to me that images (that proved
 >>after careful analysis not to have been hoaxed/created) of solid
 >>objects are not considered hard evidence for the 'presence' of
 >>something out of the ordinary. UFOs.

 ><snip>

 >>If I were to tell you that there is a ceramic inlay with the
 >>word "Imagine" built into the path that leads to the 'Strawberry
 >>Field' in Central Park, and then I showed you a picture of it,
 >>nobody would question it. There it would be in the photo. Yet
 >>when I report a UFO and show the pictures I took, the photos
 >>have _no_value_ as evidence. I don't get that.

 >>I would like a clearer definition of the role that photographic
 >>evidence plays in establishing the reality of the presence of
 >>UFOs on our world. And let's leave aside any consideration of
 >>who is building and piloting these craft or where they may be
 >>from. Let's just speak of the photographs as evidence that real
 >>and solid, unknown, objects are circumnavigating our skies.

 >>Any takers?


Hiya Eleanor,

Please excuse my long-winded response, but this is an important
subject/sore spot with me.  :)

You responded:

 >The problem of photographic evidence being rejected by the media
 >and skeptics may well be a result of lack of clear, cogent
 >rebuttals. The same type of clear, cogent rebuttal you have
 >written above. To make such rebuttal effective, it has to be put
 >forth right at the time the denial is spoken or published.
 >Timing is critical.

There was a time on the List when EBK would allow an
'attachment' here and there to go out with the posts. In the
past I have filed sighting reports on the UpDates List and
invited the input/analysis of some of the more 'expert' members.
I always made it a point to post a picture or pictures of what I
was reporting/had witnessed. It has never been my expectation
for anybody to simply take my 'word' for anything. In fact, it's
been a habit of mine to always invite questioning and
investigation. I have conducted all of my own UFO 'business'
honestly, and above board. That's why I go out of my way to
_document_ my reports to the best of my ability. The pictures
are only being presented as visual 'corroboration' to my verbal
report.

My responses to the comments and opinions on-list has always
been as 'immediate' as it gets. It simply doesn't make any
difference whether a given response is 'timely' or not.

As an example of one such set of pictures:

I had posted to the List a set of sequential, single frame
captures (taken from 8mm videotape) that clearly show a
silver/metallic disc tumbling end over end as it hovers in one
spot. You can see the clouds moving by _behind_ the disc. But
the disc itself although tumbling, remains in a fixed position.
It's not a 'hard to see' tiny white dot either. This is an 'easy
to see' silver, metal disc. (Although the resolution loss in the
transfer from VHS to disc was significant) You can see the
images I'm talking about at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/tumbleUFO.html

I was told by a couple of the List-members that these frames
from the video I recorded were some of the most amazing UFO
shots they had ever seen. But they were in the minority. The
implications of those images didn't matter much to anybody else.
It went by the board, and it was never questioned or mentioned
again.

On-list I was told that "because film and video can be faked,
none of it can be treated as 'hard' evidence." At that point,
myself or any other witnesses that are spending $ on photo
equipment, and valuable time in sky-watching sessions are simply
wasting our energy and resources. The irony and 'catch 22' of it
is; I am not going to all this trouble and expense for my own
benefit. I already _know_ for a fact that these 'things' are
real, I don't do it to convince myself of anything. It is done
so that others won't simply have to take me (or any other
witness) 'at my word.' I go out of my way to show them _in
pictures_ and _on video_ what I have seen. 'Evidence' of what is
up there in the skies over one of the largest and most densely
populated urban centers on the planet.

It _all_ gets blown off and rejected 'out of hand.' I don't
understand why pictures that can be shown through analysis not
to have been faked, are discarded solely on the basis of the
subject/content. As I said in my original, a picture of the
"Imagine" plaque in Central Park would serve as 'proof' that it
exists (not 'who' made it or 'where' they come from) and nobody
questions it. Show the same people a picture of a silver disc
dancing in mid-air and they will reject it immediately and with
almost extreme (at times) prejudice.

If I could throw a rock and break off a chunk of one of these
things I would. But my SLR camera and my camcorder are all that
I have to prove that 'something' was there and that what I
reported was exactly what I saw/witnessed. I'm told it isn't
'good enough.' That is why nobody has seen or heard any UFO
sighting reports from me in quite some time. Mind you, the
sightings continue.

It makes me wonder how many others are simply frustrated and put
off to the point where they don't even bother telling anyone any
more. I know I am.

 >Photographs are evidence, period. If they weren't, why does
 >every police department use them to back up their cases?

Try telling that to someone who is looking at a photo of a "UFO"
and not the mangled body of some poor accident victim.

 >In other words, a sprinkling of 'activist attitude' would not
 >hurt at all, in getting verified photos accepted by the media
 >and the skeptics. 'Minuteman readiness' to fire off those
 >rebuttals wouldn't hurt either.

Like I said Eleanor timeliness of response is not the issue. Or
even one of 'balls.' I've never been afraid to 'report' and
neither are folks like Lehmberg or Hamilton or King etc, etc,
etc. It is the almost mindless 'resistance' (most likely 'fear
based') that seems to be the problem and that needs to be
addressed and hopefully overcome.

My focus is on raising public awareness about the reality of UFO
abductions. Some have even accused me of 'pandering' to the
uncaring masses by the approach I have chosen. But everything I
dedicate the time of my life to, is something I have thought out
and thought about extensively. You can't jump from 'A' to 'D'
without losing a great many people in the quantum leap. First
things first. There is a logical progression that needs to take
place before any real progress can be made. Until people accept
the fact that 'UFOs' exist, they will not be able to take the
next logical step to realizing that the UFOs are 'made' by
'someone.' That the 'UFO occupants' whoever they are may have a
'purpose.' That maybe they _are_ interacting with certain people
as reported.

The bottom line of all this (for me) is getting some attention
and help for the _victims_ of these uninvited and more often
than not life-disrupting interactions.

Until that time arrives I will continue to take pictures and
make video recordings of these "UFOs." I hope Lehmberg will
continue to 'report' and that guys like Bill Hamilton and Tom
King will continue to record "UFOs." Sooner or later somebody is
going to take seriously all the reports, pix and video that many
of us have so painstakingly recorded. It is hoped that in the
end, it will all have contributed to educating and raising the
public consciousness about this 'most important' issue.

Regards,

John Velez







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   May > May 11

              Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment -

From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:20:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 07:56:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment -

 >From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:58:11 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment
 >>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:24:59 -0700 >>

 ><snip>

 >>Day 8 and still no answers... any guesses on the excuses we will
 >>be given?

 >I wish I could say the same, Royce. After our Jeff Rense airing:

 >I've been threatened at MUFON for my forthcoming article - in
 >which they have no idea what I was going to say. Perhaps I was
 >too close to home, knowing these guys long before this Reed
 >thing.

 >Iaria has threatened a lawsuit if, "Ms Andersen" does a character
 >assassination on Reed. Not sure character assassination means
 >telling the truth.

<snip>


Kathleen,

I think any threat of a lawsuit here is an absurd joke and
nothing more than a smoke screen while these clowns run for
cover. How in the hell can you slander 'Dr. Reed' when we now
know the person claiming to be him is not that person? For that
matter, what name is he going to sue under - his real name or
'Dr. Jonathan Reed'? From what I understand, those folks are
probably going to be on the receiving end of a lawsuit at this
rate... can you spell F-R-A-U-D?

What does MUFON have to be afraid of? You would think they would
want to expose this as soon as possible. As far as Iaria
claiming litigation is right around the corner, if you step over
his imaginary line in the sand, I firmly believe that he is so
convinced this bogus case is real that he will do anything to
defend it even if that means helming an already sunken ship...

I sent an e-mail to all invovled in this shameful ruse, by
choice or otherwise, and have yet to hear back from anyone. Of
course, Iaria blocked my e-mail address some time ago.

All in all, this case has been exposed for the fraud that it is.
The man claiming to be "Dr. Jonathan Reed" and claiming to have
had an alien encounter in the woods of Washington State during
October 1996 is a fraud and a liar in this matter. Guess I
better get ready for that big lawsuit, eh? How silly...

All that now remains is getting those involved to actually have
the courage to come forward and admit it - whether they were
duped or not.

Folks, it is now day 9 and still no answers... again, how long
do we have to wait?

The investigation is _far_ from over in this case and there will
be _much more_ coming. If you or anyone you know has purchased
books or videos relating to this case, or have given
'Dr. Jonathan Reed' money or had him as a presenter, then I would
ask that you report it to:

http://www.alientrack.com

If you have any further infomraiton pertaining to this case,
then please contact me.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
ufowatchdog@earthlink.net

"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind...or threats of litigation from
people that don't exist...





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   May > May 11

                 Mcminnville UFO Fest Comprehensive Program

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 20:37:48 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 07:57:55 -0400
Subject: Mcminnville UFO Fest Comprehensive Program


I have sent two introductions to Mcminnville's UFO Festival
already, but this program is far more comprehensive.

Source: Statesman Journal (Salem, Oregon), May 10, 2002.

http://news.statesmanjournal.com/cityguide/article.cfm?i=3755

Stig

***

UFO Fest flies into McMinnville

**

The event will include a costume ball and a film festival.

BY ANGELA YEAGER
Statesman Journal

*

This weekend, McMinnville will be transformed for two days of
out-of-this-world activities.

The UFO Fest was established in 2000 to mark the 50th
anniversary of a UFO encountered and photographed by Paul and
Evelyn Trent just outside McMinnville. This famous sighting is
thought by UFO believers to be one of the most significant
documentations of extraterrestrial life.

The event was started by McMenamins historian Tim Hills, who
found out about the UFO sighting while researching McMinnville
for the opening of Hotel Oregon in 1999. Knowing that May 2000
was the 50th anniversary of the Trents' sighting, McMenamins
decided to start the UFO Fest.

"We really had no idea what we were tapping into," Hills said.

"Most people in the mainstream public didn't know about it. We
just thought it was offbeat, something outside of the typical
celebration."

Hills said one of most interesting aspects of the UFO Fest is
the way it appeals to both hardcore UFO enthusiasts and
partyers who like the novelty of the idea.

"From the very beginning, we wanted to present both the more
scholarly, serious side and the more fun side that plays off
the tin foil and antennas coming off your head," he said.

On the wacky side is the Alien Costume Ball, which starts at 8
p.m. Saturday. This 21-and-older event is open to anyone who
wants to dress in their best alien outfits, with prizes, food
and drink specials. Live reggae music by Earthfocus will have
aliens of all shapes and ages dancing the night away.

The costume ball was a hit from the beginning, Hills said.

"I couldn't believe the effort people put into their
costumes," he said.

For the whole family, this year there is the UFO parade
through the downtown at 2 p.m. Saturday. Entrants in the
parade are judged in categories such as "Best Alien Group,"
"Best Alien Pet" and "Best Alien Mother." The winning entries
for "Best Individual Alien Male" and "Best Individual Alien
Female" will ride in a special car as king and queen of the
parade. Other contests adding to the offbeat character of the
parade include "Best Alien Window Display by a McMinnville
Merchant," and in honor of Mother's Day, a writing contest
answering the question, "Why I think my mother is an alien?"

Also new this year is an all-day film festival at the Mack
Theater, which is across the street from Hotel Oregon. Nine
documentaries examining UFO sightings, aliens and abductions
will be presented at the free event. The films start showing
at 9 a.m. Saturday and end about 12:30 p.m.

On the more serious side, there will be exhibits and speakers
on Friday. The keynote speaker is Peter B. Davenport, the
director of the National UFO Reporting Center.

Other speakers include Tom Bowden, who will give an update of
Steven Greer's Campaign for Disclosure, Terry Halstead, a
videographer from Beaverton, who will discuss the Trent case
and screen his documentary chronicling what the Trents saw and
photographed outside their farm in McMinnville, and Eric
Byler, who will talk about recent UFO sightings and details of
current cases in Oregon.

The entire event, with the exception of the nightly screenings
of "2001: A Space Odyssey," is free.

Angela Yeager can be reached at (503) 399-6743.

**


UFO Fest schedule

All events at the Hotel Oregon, 310 NE Evans St., unless
otherwise
noted.

*

Friday

10 a.m. to 6 p.m.: Exhibitors booths of UFO literature and
merchandise

6:30 p.m. to 10:30 p.m.: Video and slide presentations by:

6:30 p.m.: Tom Bowden, speaking on behalf of Steven Greer's
Campaign for Disclosure

7 p.m.: Peter B. Davenport, director of the National UFO
Reporting Center

8:15 p.m.: Terry Halstead, videographer and documentarist of
1950 McMinnville case

8:15 p.m.: "2001: A Space Odyssey" plays at The Mack Theater,
510 NE Third St. Cost: $5.

9 p.m.: Intermission

9:30 p.m.: Eric Byler, assistant state director of Oregon UFO
Research

10 p.m.: Open forum

Saturday

9 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.: theUFOstore.com Film Festival at The
Mack Theater.

10 a.m. to 3 p.m.: Exhibitors booths of UFO literature and
merchandise

1 to 2 p.m.: UFO Parade line-up and judging of best costumes
and floats, downtown McMinnville

2 to 3 p.m.: UFO Parade along Third Street

3:45 and 8:15 p.m.: "2001: A Space Odyssey" plays at The Mack
Theater. Cost: $3 (matinee) and $5.

8 to 11 p.m.: Alien Costume Ball with live music, costume
judging and prizes.

**

3rd Annual UFO Fest

What: Two-day event featuring UFO and extraterrestrial-focused
speakers, parade, costume party, film festival and more.

Where: Most events are at the Hotel Oregon, 310 NE Evans St.,
McMinnville

When: 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. Friday and 9 a.m. to 11 p.m. Saturday

Cost: Free

Call: (888) 472-8427 or www. mcmenamins.com/ McHO/alien.html

*

Mack Film Festival

What: Nine documentaries shown in 20-minute segments.

"Best UFO Sightings of the 1990s"

"Evidence: The case for NASA UFOs"

"Life on Mars"

"Rods - The Smoking Gun Evidence"

"Crop Circle Signs"

"The Edge of Reality: Illinois Flying Triangle, January 5,
2000"

"The UFO Files"

"UFO Abductions - A Global Phenomenon"

"UFO Pilot Sightings"

When: 9 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. Saturday

Where: The Mack Theater, 510 NE Third St.

Call: (503) 472-6225

**

Copyright 2002 Statesman Journal, Salem, Oregon






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   May > May 11

                         Re: Something I Saw - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:14:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:01:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Something I Saw - McCoy


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:21:33 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Something I Saw

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 18:48:56 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Something I Saw

 >>>Anyhow, both Richard and I are baffled. We're not claiming we
 >>>saw anything unexplainable. We just don't know what the
 >>>explanation is. Neither of us have ever seen anything remotely
 >>>like this. Nor have we heard of anything.

 >>>Can anyone on the List enlighten us? I'd be grateful.

 >>Sounds to me like you've both seen an "unidentified" flying object.
 >>Until it becomes "identified" it will remain a "UFO." I wonder how
 >>Mr. Vocal Skeptic (brother-in-law) will take to being on the other
 >>side of the fence.  (From 'skeptic' to a witness living with an open
 >>question.)   ;)

<snip>

John & Greg,

I have seen the classic mettalic disk-with multiple witnesess -
I also have seen and experienced some pretty strange stuff over
the years that could be defined in the classic or even "Klassic"
as in easly somthing else.But what was it/them?

The mere fact that what you saw was completely not of what is
defined as "normal" that is the maddening part of the phenom.

 >I'd have _loved_ this to be something so amazing that my brother
 >in law would be converted instantly. You know, like a metallic
 >disk hanging right overhead. In fact, forget about him - I'd
 >have loved to see something like that myself. (Or maybe I'd have
 >loved it. Maybe I'd have been scared spitless.)

Yes, when I saw that slivery-disk with lights around the rim I
knew, somebody, somewhere was lying about what reality really
is. This isn't belief, it is experience. All the bunkies, all
the skeptics, will not change my _experience_.

 >But given what we saw, he wasn't much bothered. He said, with a
 >big smile, "Maybe it was a UFO!" Meaning something without a
 >normal explanation, probably alien. But he figures it must be
 >something known, even if we can't identify it, and I'm assuming
 >the same thing, until proven otherwise. I think Dick Hall's
 >point is important here - a UFO is something that can't be
 >explained even after investigation. Richard and I are both
 >pretty sane (I hope), but we're not experts on everything we
 >might see in the night sky over NYC. I'm waiting to hear from
 >people who know more than I do.

Ex-professional pilot that I am I've never heard or seen
anything like that.

Note: last July I reported on the List I saw a Triangle, now I
have a problem with the Triangle reports as I think that there
is a "Black Project " angle there as a lot of the Triangles
behave in a conventional fashion (not all) but what or who was
it?

 >That said, it was really very odd. I don't think I've heard of
 >anything like it in the annals of UFO sightings, though again
 >others will know more than I do.

There _is_ a lot of odd stuff out there in the wild blue and
there aren't enough pelicans to go around.


GT McCoy







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   May > May 11

                          Re: SDI 05-04-02 - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:21:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:06:15 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 05-04-02 - Myers


 >From: Christopher Kelly <tophar@iprimus.com.au>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:15:11 +1000
 >Subject: SDI 05-04-02 - Reed

<snip>

 >I was wondering about this as Royce explained how the lie had
 >gone on for some four-years and how so many people came forth to
 >support 'Reed's' claims. These kind of lies, to me, would take
 >some organisation and considering 'Reed' worked in a Gas
 >Station before this, I was wondering were he found the expertise
 >to pull off such a convincing lie for so long? Or am I just
 >jumping the gun here and it really is much easier to pull
 >something like this than I think it is?

 >Stories/lies, like 'Reed's', really do a lot of damage to the
 >credibility of UFO research, as was pointed out by Royce, Errol
 >Dave, Victor and many others.

 >So I'm interested to know, Royce, if you found out anything
 >about those that organised all of this for 'Reed' or did he do
 >it all him self?


Hi Chris,

Actually, "Reed" - his real name is John Bradley Rutter - has
not worked at a gas station to my knowledge. You would be
thinking of 'Dr. Harold Chacon' and Robert 'Raith' (aka Robert
Aria).

Chacon claimed to be a microbiologist that was involved in
completing DNA analyses on alien blood and tissue. Both Chacon
and Aria claimed, on national radio, that they had never met
until 1999. Well, 'Dr.' Cahcon isn't a doctor and the two worked
together at the same gas station for the last 5 years.

As for the resources behind this scam, the investigation is
on-going.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM







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   May > May 11

                    Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:51:48 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:08:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics - Rudiak


 >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:23:29 -500
 >Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 23:16:43 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics
 >
 >>>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:55:22 -500
 >>>Subject: Re: Roswell Vs. The Critics

 >>>I know Ed, Dave and others have put in some serious effort in
 >>>determining the dimensions of the debris in the FW photos. Part
 >>>of the effort has been determining a base dimension that all can
 >>>agree on. Unfortunately, I don't think that using any item in
 >>>the photos as a baseline will yield accurate results.

 >>What makes you think I used only one item to scale the picture?
 >>I used multiple items, among them being the radiator, window
 >>frames, picture frame on the wall, baseboard, chairs, rug
 >>stripes, and body proportions.

 >Well, for one thing, I did not say that you used _only_ one
 >item. Therefore, I did not think that.

You said, "I don't think that using any item in the photos as a
baseline will yield accurate results." That sure sounded to be
like you saying that only one item was being used to establish a
baseline scale. (Also it sure sounded like you were saying that
accurate results were not possible without some complicated
corrections for alleged serious lens aberrations.)

My point, and the way I went about scaling the photo, is that
various items in the photos can be cross-checked against one
another to see if the assumed dimensions are reasonable and
consistent with one another. Thus I can assume "typical" chair
seat heights and back heights and see if this leads to
reasonable and self-consistent dimensions for the baseboard
trim, window trim, radiator, etc.

This is also a check for any serious possible lens distortion in
the photos. If dimensions seem reasonable and self-consistent
towards the center of the photo, but completely fall apart at
the edges, then I've got potential problems. E.g., if I have
reasonable chair and baseboard dimensions in the center, but
can't reproduce the radiator or picture frame towards the
periphery, then something is wrong. The only thing I came across
that didn't completely match up were the tilts in the extreme
periphery, suggesting some lens aberration. But all the measured
dimensions seemed to be reasonable and self-consistent. Like I
wrote, I determined very accurately the dimensions of the
radiator before knowing what they were.

 >>>Look at the Ramey photo, and the radiator in the back-left of
 >>>the frame. Notice the distortion? The radiator appears to be
 >>>warped and leaning to the left, as does the frame of the window.
 >>>Yet the chair leg (next to Ramey's left knee) is perfectly
 >>>straight.

 >>Most of this isn't due to camera distortion. The slanting is
 >>due primarily to the normal effects of perspective. <snip>

 >I cannot cite numbers - percent of distortion that can be
 >attributed to any particular focal length - but as any portrait
 >photographer will tell you, image distortion is a problem that
 >they have to be aware of at all times. In my brief foray into
 >that field as a youth, I was taught that use of a wide-angle
 >lens had to be very carefully planned so as not to induce any
 >unfortunate distortion of physical features.

And what I was trying to point out is that this isn't just a
product of the lens. Even a pin-hole camera or a ray tracer with
no optical aberratons will produce what appear to be severe
distortions in wide angle views when objects are close. These
are just normal effects of perspective that we normally do not
notice.

 >I have used a number of different lenses on my cameras, and what
 >is considered a "normal" lens (50-55mm) will not cause the
 >bowing effect in the FW shots.

Narrower field of view, thus less obvious perspective effects.
Also with a longer focal length lens, you can move further back
to get the same shot, reducing seeming distortion of depth also
caused by perspective. Take a close-up photo of somebody's face
and it looks distorted like in a fun-house mirror. _With the
same lens_, move back and take a photo and the seeming
distortion is greatly reduced. The "distortion" from the close-
up shot is the result primarily of exaggeration of perspective,
not aberrations of the lens. The same happens with a pinhole
camera which is lensless and distortion free.

 >Now- it is possible that the lens
 >Bond used could have induced the bowing due to the way it was
 >ground, but it does appear to me to more the results of a wide-
 >angle lens.

There appears to be some lens aberration, but the large slanting
of lines at the edges is primarily due to perspective effects
inherent in any wide angle views of close objects.

 ><snip>

 >>I would be off in my measurement by roughly
 >>.25 inches out of 2+ feet because of lens aberration, or about
 >>1%. Hey, I can live with that.

 >In re-reading my post, I see that I failed to illuminate
 >sufficiently one point I wanted to make. That point was that Ed
 >seemed to be demanding absolutes, while you were arguing that
 >there will be some acceptable error partially due to, as you
 >call it, perspective, and also due to the condition of the
 >debris- broken struts, etc.

I am basic agreement here. There are always measurement errors.
The point is to minimize them. A few percent seems acceptable
and doesn't change the basic outcome, one reason I took issue
with you to begin with over your statements that such accuracy
wasn't possible.

There are perspective errors in not knowing the exact camera
position or point of regard, though it is possible to get close.

Yes, Ed was wrong in assuming that a piece shorter than expected
should be treated as anomalous in something that isn't intact.

 >Believe it or not, this evil, nasty (=85shudder!) debunker agrees
 >with your overall assessment!!

Now that you've realized the wickedness of your debunking ways,
there is still time to repent sinner.

 >The post was intended to question what work had been done to
 >correct for the distortion created by a wide-angle lens. It
 >seems to me that if one knows precisely what the effects on an
 >image taken with a 121mm lens on a Speed Graphic are, it can be
 >corrected with the proper software. (No- I do not know _what_
 >software package, but I am sure that it exists.) Bruce Maccabee
 >would be a good resource.

No doubt this could be done, but unless the lens aberrations
have some serious effect on the measurements, there doesn't seem
to be much point. As far as I have been able to determine, there
is only minimal effect, not worth bothering about.

 >Once the corrections have been done, it would be far simpler to
 >derive more accurate measurements- ones that hopefully all can
 >live with, including Ed. You say you can live with a 1% error
 >factor. Given the amount of distortion evident in the photos, I
 >would say that 5% would be acceptable, and expected.

I'm glad you agree that 5% is an acceptable margin of error. I
would say measurement error is easily within 5% already,
probably more like 3%, even without some fancy-pants optical
aberration correction. So why bother?

 >However, Ed appears to disagree, holding out for some sort of
 >absolute, arguing that so long as there is a question about
 >this, his position is tenable. I disagree. Ed is clutching at
 >straws and ignoring the obvious. If he wants absolutes, then the
 >photos, as is, will not yield them for the reasons I pointed
 >out.

Ed and I had some private e-mail and he said he is re-thinking
his position.

But Ed wasn't alone in making absolute statements. So have you.
And you continue to do so in your present post.

 >>First you should separate your obvious confusion between normal
 >>perspective effects and actual lens distortion.
 >
 >I'd like to see Dr. Maccabee verify this proclamation of yours.
 >I think you are wrong, but I will bow to his authority. Will you?

Your proclamation was that the "distortions" in the picture were
entirely the result of using a wide-angle lens. Nope!

My "proclamation" was based on knowing something about
perspective and my actual experience with ray traced images and
comparing them against the actual photos. Even pin-hole cameras
seemingly distort objects in close-up, wide-angle views. But
this is merely perspective at work. Renaissance artists
sometimes went a bit overboard in rendering scenes in true
perspective, with the result that the flat scenes, intended to
be fully realistic, appear to be distorted.

As far as disentangling "distortion" normally introduced by
perspective from actual distortion caused by lens aberrations, I
supplicate myself to the expertise of Herr Doktor Maccabee of
the Universitat der Optika.

 >>Bruce Hutchinson certainly has the right ask questions about
 >>accuracy and methodology, including possible effects of optical
 >>aberrations. What bothers me is his usual handwaving style of
 >>argumentation. He's done no work on this and no real analysis.
 >>He does nothing more than eyeball the photos and proclaim there
 >>is horrific lens distortions there which make quantitative
 >>analysis of debris impossible. Something is true because he
 >>proclaims its true, even when it isn't.

 >Well, golly. Isn't perspective wonderful? I complimented you on
 >the work you have done, but questioned the degree of accuracy
 >that can be obtained from a photo taken with a lens that induces
 >distortion. I pointed out those areas that an eyeball analysis
 >can detect the obvious.

Well here you are back to true argument by proclamation. Based
on nothing but your eyeball analysis, you are stating,
absolutely again, that so-called "obvious" distortions are the
result of camera lens aberrations.

That again is not the case. It is primarily perspective, and if
the Other Bruce ever weighs in on this, I'm sure he'll agree.

 >And as the discussion between you and Ed
 >was partially on the degree of accuracy one can expect from
 >these photos, the post was apropos.

The fact of the matter is that you proclaimed, yes proclaimed,
based on nothing but eyeball analysis, that there were obvious
severe distortions from lens aberrations that would prevent
accurate measurement of anything.

And in your statement above, you are basically back to saying the same=
 thing.

Like Ed, you were/are arguing in absolutes, and like Ed, you
were/are arguing from false assumptions and incomplete
knowledge.

 >Of course, these comments came from a known skeptic of the
 >_worst_ sort, a dastardly debunker. Thus this knee-jerk reaction
 >from David.

I would like to reiterate, I didn't question you raising the
issue of lens aberrations and what effect it may have on
measurement accuracy. That's perfectly fair game and a normal
issue to raise.

What I question is your method of argumentation. It is typical
dastardly debunker argument by proclamation. Your statements are
based on nothing but your assumptions, some of them clearly
wrong.

 >>What I think is really going on here is that I beat him up a
 >>few months ago by saying my prelimary analysis indicated that
 >>the debris in the photos could probably be fully accounted for
 >>by a singular balloon and a singular radar target.

 >Beat up? Hardly. I said this then, and I will say it again here:
 >I don't care if the pictures show pieces of just one Rawin, or
 >two, or three. Regardless, it is still what's left of a NYU
 >balloon train.

In other words, "Don't confuse me with facts." How typical of
dastardly debunkers.

I continued to be amazed at your rigid position, since there is
no way I know of to clearly descriminate a Rawin or a balloon
from a NYU balloon train from those used elsewhere. They both
came out of the same barrel, so to speak. And the Rawins _were_
used elsewhere, not just by Mogul. The Fort Worth base, which
supposedly didn't have Rawins, was staging a Rawin demonstration
for the FW Star-Telegram two days later.

If you want to be somewhat scientific about it (dastardly
debunkers are always demanding that Ufology be more scientific),
you need a discriminator of some kind to distinguish one
hypothesis from another.

Your hypothesis: The debris _must_ have come from a Mogul
balloon train. (Notice the use of absolutes again here, not even
"maybe" came from a Mogul.) To establish that, you have to be
able to point to something in the photos that clearly
discriminates this debris from an ordinary Rawin weather balloon
composed of a single balloon and target. E.g., more than one
balloon and a random mix of more than one radar target would
lend support to your hypothesis (though not prove it). So would
some obvious piece of equipment used on a Mogul mixed in with
the debris. Even some of that mythical "exclusive" Mogul "flower
tape" would help.

The problem is, nothing like this seems to exist in the photos.
There is no exclusive Mogul equipment, no "flower tape", and
seemingly only a singular balloon and target.

A more conservative hypothesis, and one much better in line with
the evidence, is that this _is_ a singular balloon and target,
one brought in special for a photo op. That is also in line with
with what Ramey was calling it and the testimony of primary
witnesses, such as Marcel and Dubose. Even primary witness and
fellow Roswell debunker, Ramey's weather officer Irving Newton,
remains convinced that that is all he saw and this wasn't from a
Mogul.

So please point out again exactly what it is in the photos that
so conclusively points to this being only from a Mogul not from
somewhere else. This is the question you keep dodging.

 >But despite this attempt of yours (not mine!) to >turn this
conversation back to that topic, I will leave it here: >We
disagree on the origin of what was on Ramey's floor.

Definitely. And your continued failure to answer the question
above that I have repeatedly posed to you speaks volumes about
your ability to answer it.


David Rudiak







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   May > May 11

                          Secrecy News -- 05/10/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:25:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:11:16 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/10/02



SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 42
May 10, 2002


**      PENTAGON WITHDRAWS PROPOSED RESEARCH CONTROLS
**      NEW RELEASES FROM MI5
**      EPA CLASSIFICATION AUTHORITY REVISITED


PENTAGON WITHDRAWS PROPOSED RESEARCH CONTROLS

The Defense Department has decided to withdraw its draft
directive that would have imposed new controls on defense
research "in response to bitter opposition from universities
that do basic science for the Pentagon," the Boston Globe
reported on May 9.

The Pentagon would not immediately confirm the report.

See "Pentagon Drops Attempt to Keep Research Quiet," by Mary
Leonard, which may be found in the Boston Globe online archive
here:

http://www.globe.com/globe/search/

The draft directive that is reportedly being withdrawn is posted
here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/04/dod5200_39r_dr.html

There is some possibility that concerns over the draft have been
overstated.

One close reader of the 110 page directive told Secrecy News
that "there is language in the draft directive that in most
cases probably serves to exempt at least unclassified
fundamental research from control: (C1.6.2): 'No information
that is within the public domain, as defined by the ITAR, shall
be marked as [Critical Research Technology] or [Critical Program
Information].'  In most fields of science, the ITAR public
domain definition would cover any openly published research,
meaning that none of that stuff would require review.  (For
things like satellite-based research that are included on the US
Munitions List, of course, things are more complicated.)"  Uh
huh.

On the other hand, the tremendous obscurity of the directive's
contents and the impenetrability of its prose would inevitably
have a chilling effect on scrupulous researchers who wish to
comply with government regulations.


NEW RELEASES FROM MI5

The Public Records Office of the United Kingdom announced the
largest release of British Security Service (MI5) records on May
9.

Among the declassified files is a set of documents concerning
Sidney Reilly (1874-1925), better known as "Reilly, Ace of
Spies," and hardly known at all as the former Sigmund Rosenblum.
  Oh well.

The contents of the new release are described at length, but
with only a few links to actual documents, here:

http://www.pro.gov.uk/releases/may2002-mi5/list.htm


EPA CLASSIFICATION AUTHORITY REVISITED

Secrecy News was too quick to report yesterday that the
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) had never had "original
classification authority" until it was granted this week by
President Bush.  That was incorrect.

It turns out that EPA did have original classification authority
(OCA) for a period of time in the 1980s.

But that classification authority "was used so infrequently that
the Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO) recommended its
exclusion, and, with no real fight from EPA at the time, it was
removed from the list" of authorized classifiers, according to
Steven Garfinkel, former ISOO Director.

One official observer viewed the new grant of classification
authority to EPA skeptically.

"As soon as Health and Human Services summarily received such
authority [last December]," that observer said, "the door was
opened for all the other domestic, non-national security
agencies to seek entrance.  Now it's like an unnecessary
security clearance -- it gives you status."


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with
this command in the body of the message:
subscribe secrecy_news


OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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                 Review: Looking For Orthon by Colin Bennett

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 17:36:13 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:14:27 -0400
Subject: Review: Looking For Orthon by Colin Bennett


LOOKING FOR ORTHON by Colin Bennett
reviewed by Mac Tonnies

http://mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html

Plainly stated, 'Looking for Orthon' is one of the most
compelling treatments of the UFO phenomenon ever written.
Superficially, 'Looking for Orthon' can be read as a biography
of the late flying saucer contactee George Adamski, but it's
much more; Bennett probes the innards of 20th century society
with an intellectual and literary dexterity seldom encountered
in popular works on UFOs.

Bennett treats Adamski's bizarre story as the multilayered
mythological enigma that it is, recreating the heady and
beautifully weird circumstances in which Adamski, good-natured
opportunist and hobbyist astronomer, came into contact with a
man from Venus: an event, Bennett argues, that rattled the
world's epistemological bedrock - even if it never happened.

There aren't very many books that address reality-challenging
issues as ably or as wittily as Bennett's. 'Looking for Orthon'
is a must for anyone seeking the roots of the postmodern
condition, and destined to be a classic.


=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)
http://mactonnies.com
Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies







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   May > May 11

              Stereographic Elevation Measurements Of Mars Face

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:04:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:15:59 -0400
Subject: Stereographic Elevation Measurements Of Mars Face


The main article describing the results is at:

http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/mars/stereography/parallax-results.htm


The article describing the methods I used is at:

http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/mars/stereography/parallax.htm

There's nothing terribly sensational about the results. They do
confirm that there's a strong symmetry to the landform (as the
Odyssey image also confirmed). But I thought this sort of
analysis ought to be done.

Dr. James Garvin kindly supplied the ancillary data needed to do
these measurements. (The data for the April, 2001 image is not
yet available on the PDS web site). For anyone who's interested,
here's the complete ancillary data for the 2001 image:

(E03 E03008/E0300824.IMQ E03/00824 "2001-04-08T20:53:58.67" MOC-
NA N/A 2048 6528 1 1 1.86 1.09 24.91 37.99 60.94 9.54 41.13 9.47
41.02 9.56 41.01 9.52 41.24 9.61 41.23 "EXTENDED " "MARS "
"671230469:208" 262.3 0.6026 0A 44 0 MOC-PRED-X-5 3.83 13.32
414.54 3802.21 451.84 N 96.59 332.3 41.3 14.9 5.76 41.38
2.326989615E+8 142.83 14.12 93.0 "Face on Mars" "ERRORS " 9323)







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   May > May 11

                             Fire The Government

From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:05:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:23:59 -0400
Subject: Fire The Government


There are questions that must be answered, the UFOs that have
crashed do not belong to the government, they belong to the
people. This stonewall of information is just the tip of the
iceberg of the things that our government is covering up. If the
past is any guide, 45% of todays conspiracy theories are
tomorrows scandals.

Our government works for us, not us for them, we don't have to
take this crap from employees. They are doling out the UFO
secrets to corporations that then turn around and overcharge us
for hardware that they produce with our secrets.

Why are civilians not regularly going into space?

Why is there not a civilian space station?

What are they hiding out there?

These secrets do not belong to the elite, they belong to us all.
It is time to force their hand while we still can, in case you
have not noticed it or rights are disapearing at an incredible
rate.

There is a perfectly legal cure.....


Fire The Government Petition

The time has come for us to exersize our option under the
declaration of independence.

We no longer have a government of the people, for the people or
by the people.

Less than 1% of the people decide our fate, these are the people
who really own the government. It is not enough to take the
money incentive away from them, we must take their power.

Our government was set up 226 years ago for an illiterate
population that no longer exists. We can wrest control from the
government only if we can set aside our petty differences and
work as a team.

If we can get a majority of the people to sign this ballot we
will have legal authority to remove this criminal organization
from power.

We would need to keep the military and the firefighters, as they
are generally honest and serve a necessary purpose. The rest of
the government, even down to the local level, should be disposed
of and all records opened. Only the dishonest would like to see
the records remain secret.

----------------------------------------------------------------


I hereby fire all the government employees (except the military
and firefighters) working for me.


Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed







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                        Re: 'X-Files' Ends - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 00:06:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:28:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 'X-Files' Ends - Maccabee


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:34:01 +0200
 >Subject: 'X-Files' Ends


 >Source: AP, May 8, 2002.

 >Stig

 >***

 >Strange, Wonderful 'X-Files' Ends

 >Story Filed: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:18 PM EDT

**

 >LOS ANGELES (AP) - C'mon over here and let us plant a big
f>arewell kiss on dark, droll, gory, sexy, devious, paranoid,
 >sly, subversive, baffling, marvelous you - 'The X-Files'.

 >The Fox drama about extraterrestrials, freakish terrestrial
 >villains and the FBI agents driven to pursue them is ending its
 >nine-year run, secure in its reputation as a television classic.

 >Chris Carter, its creator, dared to take the most orthodox of
 >genres, the cop show, and transform it into a convention-
 >busting, one-of-a-kind vehicle for thrilling and intelligent
 >storytelling.

 >'The Truth', the two-hour finale, airs 8-10 p.m. EDT Sunday, May
 >19. David Duchovny returns as Fox Mulder, who faces a murder
 >charge and military tribunal. Gillian Anderson co-stars as Dana
 >Scully.


It's amusing... or is it... that the real reason X-Files took
off, namely actual UFO sightings and X-Files gave voice to the
frustration witnesses feel... is not mentioned in this weepy
paen to the show in its waning days..

Too bad I couldn't sell my UFO-FBI book to as few as 1/100 or
even as little as 1/1000  of the people who watched the show.

The failure of the media to connect the show with reality is
another example of the 'self-cover-up'. This is a subject no one
really wants to know is real... because if it is....

_If_ it is......

Oy vey!

It is.....







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                         Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:07:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:15:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Myers


 >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:22:54 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Munoz

 >>From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:06:56 -0700
 >>Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment

 >>>From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment
 >>>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:24:59 -0700

 >>>Here we are 7 days later and we still have no comment about the
 >>>Reed UFO Fraud from anyone associated with it.

<snip>

 >Dear Royce and List,

 >Replying to your last messages posted on UFO UpDates e-list
 >regarding the Reed Hoax, asking for an answer:

 >Yes, I'm still involved very deeply with the UFO research, and
 >still in touch with my friends all over the world on this
 >matter. Also with the Mexicans, of course. I decided to follow
 >my own path, separately from Jaime Maussan's one, also due to
 >the fact there were differences in appreciation and criteria
 >regarding the way of researching. Now I'm also writing on the
 >subject, and yes, Reed's case will be within my interests and
 >goals, 'cause its importance in the field, also thanks to your
 >investigations.

First, let me be clear in saying that I am not trying to be
inflammatory in this response. I will say that I respect Daniel
Munoz for having the courage for at least trying to come forward
- he apparently has a lot more courage than some of the other
folks that have yet to directly comment on the story posted at
my website. Frankly, I'm tired of getting half answers and
people dodging questions. I would like a direct, straight answer
regarding this case.

Daniel, why are you still referring to him as "Reed"? We all
know that isn't his real name. "Now I'm also writing on the
subject, and yes, Reed's case will be within my interests and
goals, 'cause its importance in the field, also thanks to your
investigations." So, are you saying the case is a fraud or not?

 >Royce, I was in touch with you long ago, and you asked me to
 >tell you exactly where I was present in Seattle confirming if
 >there were photos or videos of reed there and so on. You
 >remember? More or less at the time when I stopped my link with
 >virtuallystrange, at that time under the other name, Ufomind if
 >I don't remember it wrongly... Anyway, I was at that time
 >looking for evidences, and as for a question of ethics, I was
 >unable to give you any clue on those places or names or phone
 >numbers, as I suppose yourself would do it by giving me some
 >sensitive info, always within the ethics and respect circles. As
 >you know, I was the only person in that Mexican staff in being
 >there present in Seattle to confirm the truth or false in this
 >case. Nobody else but me. And I was able to find many
 >interesting things at a scientific level, that could amaze many
 >scientists and UFO researchers and enthusiast... Things still to
 >be revealed, but that don't depend on me, because I left all
 >those videotapes back in Mexico City, containing all that info.

I clearly remember the e-mails you sent, I saved them all. Yes,
you contacted me after I directly invited you to do so after
someone sent me an e-mail you sent to another list about me. I
also remember you writing to me:

"In fact, you also can contact Jaime Maussan through me. Believe
me that what we would like the most is to know the real truth
about this case, and that's is the main reason we are
investigating this way." and also stating "Feel free to write to
Jaime whenever you want. You now know the right way. And if you
have the real evidences that this case is a hoax, just let us
know with evidences. As journalists, that's what we are looking
for."

My subsequent e-mails to you went unanswered but did arrive at
your e-box. Not only did I ask for info regarding this alleged
camera shop where the film was supposed to have been developed
at, I also sent you info regarding the fact that Harold Chacon
and Robert Aria (aka Robert 'Raith') both worked at the same
mini-mart together for at least the past 5 years. The two
claimed to have never met until June 1999 and Chacon lied on
national radio about being a doctor. In both instances, I never
received a response from you even though I sent several e-mails
after you invited me to do so. I take you gave this info to
Jaime as stated in your e-mail to me...?

Also, why is it that these video tapes you allege to contain
"amazing" things were left in Mexico by you? I find it hard to
believe that this so-called evidence has just been sitting
around and has not been disclosed. Is this merely more of an
opening for Rutter to attempt to squeeze through - though I
don't think anyone will be letting him do that considering there
are a lot of people that are very upset over this fraud.

 >Certainly I will write very soon about that, and I will issue my
 >own vision of the Reed Case, even including, if you allow me to
 >do so, your points, that are quite interesting at all, but not
 >conclusive, as I think you will agree...

The facts are a bit more than just "quite interesting". The
facts conclusively prove that Rutter is lying about this case
and who he actually is.

 >I can tell you and to all the friends on the list this: I have
 >been able to know and see by myself many things around Reed and
 >his staff that were very contradictory. Yes, there was something
 >in there, because the evidences told me so. But I have to tell
 >that also found or saw other things in Reed, that allowed me to
 >understand that the 100% was not true at all... As many other
 >cases we know of, there was something real in the beginning, but
 >later, the human part also entered in scene, and you all know
 >the results of this...

What things are these that made you "understanding the 100% was
not true at all..."? Why weren't these reported to the public?

 >I cannot judge just by your findings (congratulations, by the
 >way, for your tenacity) that case, dear Royce, as I couldn't do
 >it either just with all those things I found by getting there in
 >Seattle and by scratching the soil and the trees, analyzing
 >later in the labs the samples obtained that way, everything on
 >video. It is necessary to put all the elements together, and
 >then, to see if that is the whole story, or well, as I suspect,
 >if there are missing elements, as I was able to confirm.

 >Yes, is very difficult to know if the so called "link bracelet"
 >is really functioning. Is existing, 'cause I touched and filmed
 >it by myself, but never seen it working as Reed or McEvoy say it
 >works. I'd like, as I think the most of the Mexicans do, to
 >watch a video where is possible to observe its functioning. Or
 >even better, to make it personally by myself... To be published
 >or broadcast, logically...

The link is nothing more than a prop. Where are all of the
alleged lab reports? Where's the hard evidence? There is none
because the man claiming to be "Dr.Jonathan Reed" in this case
is a fraud. These are questions I have raised since this dupe of
a UFO case came out in 1998. All of this alleged secrecy
surrounding all of this so-called evidence - this ploy ran out
of gas the first year this scam came out. The same tired stories
about 'Dr. Reed' being kidnapped and beaten - those too ran out
of gas long ago...for as many beating as this guy was supposed
to have taken, its amazing he is still walking...physical
assaults, being shot - the guy must be made by Timex...We all
know if the big, bad black ops guys were out to get him that
Rutter would have been pushing daisies by the dozen long ago...

 >Yes. I'm still in touch with Reed, even if it is only via E-
 >mail, as many people can do. You know how to do it. But it is in
 >the very same way I could say I'm still in touch with you,
 >Royce... You don't really know me, my friend, as I have never
 >meet or see you ever. And I would like it very much, in order to
 >talk, in front of a cup of coffee or Coca Cola or whatever, our
 >findings. Not with the aim of destroy someone, but to exchange
 >impressions about what is interesting for both of us, without
 >trying to be the best or the first. Just behaving as
 >professional researchers, as I think both of us have showed we
 >are.

There are no impressions here, just the clear facts that
demonstrate this case to be a complete fraud. Again, why do you
keep referring to him as "Reed" - his real name is John Bradley
Rutter. I just don't get how anyone could still think this man
has any credibility. Glad the guy calling himself "Reed" is
still in touch with you, he has yet to answer the e-mail I sent
to him. He must be waiting for that next convenient excuse to
come along...

 >My involvement with Jaime Maussan shouldn't be interpreted as a
 >factual collaboration, 'cause we are apart 9,000 kilometers away
 >from each other. I think that says too much, Royce. My comments
 >in the last radio show (I was surprised you hear it in Spanish!
 >Good for you!) were, if you really understood'em, not in favor
 >of Reed, because I was the person who sent them a copy of your
 >recently published findings with the photos and so on. Jaime
 >Maussan never reads Virtuallystrange.net, and I sent for them in
 >Mexico that info, 'cause I considered interesting. That's it.
 >Nobody could say that I was warning them, as it was said,
 >because in my weekly Notiovni I publish this and many other
 >subjects, totally freely, for whoever request that info in
 >Spanish language ( notiovni@yahoo.com or notiovni@hotmail.com ).
 >I just wanted to talk about the news in the world, that for me
 >are totally more interesting than Reed's case, by the way...

I will have a transcript of that program on my website very soon.

 >Yes, I sent that info also to Reed, who replied to me very soon,
 >telling me that your discoveries were a new campaign of
 >discredit and debunk... Those are personal conversations and
 >will never been published, for the ethics and respect I
 >mentioned above ( I would never publish a word of what we spoke
 >long ago, for instance, Royce, even if somebody asks me to do
 >so), but I was surprised for the speed of replying... Even if,
 >as I was said by my friends in Mexico, Jaime Maussan said Reed
 >was kidnapped or something like that... I was also very
 >surprised in watching him in the studio at the radio station
 >through the web cam, 'cause I didn't know he was in Mexico!...
 >But you are free to believe me or not... That's your right...

'Dr. Reed' kidnapped again? This is just more of the same bunk
crap - excuses, excuses, excuses. Of course he's going to tell
you that I'm a debunker and so is everyone else that has
something vested in this bogus case. Yes, I'm quite sure Rutter
had a convenient explanation for everything including the photos
of him, the firsthand witnesses that have gone on record and the
video tapes I have of him at family gatherings during the time
he claimed to be on the run. Couple that with the fact that he
didn't own the Jeep he claimed to have hauled the alien around
in until over a year after the bogus encounter and official King
County documents showing who he is.

This con has more aliases in it than the mob. Daniel, if you'd
like, I can direct you to where his mother lives and where he
lives at. Daniel, did he ever take you to any restaurants in
Seattle during your visit there? Did people there 'recognize'
him? Let me know about that, will you?

One of my witnesses saw Rutter at his mother's house when an
ambulance showed up there on May 2nd - I'm sure it wouldn't be a
problem getting a record of that. Also, wasn't he supposed to be
on the run starting in October 1996? Why is it then that I have
photos of him from Thanksgiving Day in 1996 at his ex-
girlfriend's daughter's home? How about video of him at family
gatherings during Christmas two years in a row? There is no
campaign to debunk or discredit this fraudulent UFO hoax -
  Rutter has succeeded in doing that himself by lying from the
start.

 >I move myself always trying to find the truth in a very
 >difficult subject as the UFO field offers to the researcher. The
 >real researcher, of course. And Royce, you are doing something
 >interesting. I am unable to offer now many images 'cause I came
 >without my archives to Europe, but I promise it will be
 >published as an insider, 'cause I was able to enter very deeply
 >in certain aspects of that case. And if Jaime Maussan said what
 >he actually said publicly in Otro Rollo TV Show on June 2001, is
 >his problem. I cannot speak in his place...

I, along with others, still await for Jaime Maussan to comment
on the story at my website and the real facts about this case.
The question here is how come not one of the so-called
investigators involved in this case was able to identify Rutter
for who he was?

 >I can assure you and to all of you at all the e-lists that will
 >receive this info, that there were soil and organic samples that
 >were analyzed in Mexican labs, by Mexican experts in nuclear
 >medicine (Dr. Zohar Guti=E9rrez), and that the results were
 >amazing, and curiously, very similar to the ones found in the
 >soil samples I brought with me from the Chilbolton crop
 >formations with the message and the face...

Daniel, we've been given these assurances time and again from
people involved in this case. Is this just like the so-called
analysis of the 'link artifact' done by Rodolfo Garrido? See:

http://www.aliendestiny.com/PageMexicoCity/RodolfoLinkAnalysis.htm

This analysis would is laughable at best. This hardly qualifies
as a high school research paper on nano-technology much less an
"analysis" of any alien device. It simply gives a brief history
of nano-technology and some measurement of the prop used by
Rutter.

 >And yes, I meet
 >personally Harold Chacon, and following your suggestions, I
 >personally called the Catholic University of Ponce, and spoke
 >personally (everything on tape) with somebody that knew and
 >remembered perfectly Harold as a person who was deeply involved
 >with Biology, who studied there getting very good results, and
 >that was kind of a consultant or orientation for the professors
 >and students of biologics sciences... Yes, I have to tell I was
 >also waiting that somebody at the other side of the cord would
 >tell me: "I'm sorry, there is no Mr. Chac=F3n, and there is no
 >Microbiology studies performed in here"... But there were... And
 >that way it was video recorded...

Again, what about the fact that Chacon and Aria both worked at
the same gas station for 5 years? This single fact alone should
have clued most people in. About the university in Puerto Rico
that Chacon alleges to have graduated from - Funny, I called
both the numbers on that reference letter you're holding in the
video - neither one is for the Catholic University of Puerto
Rico. Can you also explain why the last name on the degree
alleging to belong to Chacon is blacked out? Why is Dan Iaria
claiming that the university is Spanish speaking only, yet
Chacon's degree is in English? I know that Chacon works at that
gas station for two reasons: 1) I called the gas station and
talked with him, and 2) I've been to that gas station and talked
with employees there confirming that both he and Aria work
there. At the time (July 2001), Aria had quit and was telling
people he worked with that he was "traveling and getting rich."
Did Chacon tell you about his employment at the gas station?

 >Royce, please don't call me again "the assistant to Jaime
 >Maussan", 'cause I'm not that person any longer. As I stated, I
 >live here in Europe and don't have that labor link with him any
 >longer, more than a month ago at this point. I was unable to
 >read your open letters asking for a reply before, but here you
 >are. This is certainly not a reply, but a clarification for you
 >and for all the friends and readers of these wonderful e-forums.
 >I'm available not for polemics, but for the research, and of
 >course, I am a follower of your discoveries, believe it or
 >not... But never would permit myself to attack you publicly if I
 >still don't meet you personally, even if I would disagree in
 >certain points or methodologies... How could I do it? At least,
 >those are not my principles...

There are no attacks here - just simple questions requiring
straight answers.

 >Feel free to tell whatever you want in replying to these lines,
 >Royce: is always your right. But my sole and only intention is
 >to clarify that what I have researched is not in my hands, but
 >only in my mind, 'cause Jaime Maussan kept the videos in his
 >offices. So, whatever he does or perform or announces regarding
 >that, is his only and sole responsibility, and of course of all
 >the persons that are participating at that time in that
 >investigation. And that is not my case any longer. I can express
 >my opinion, and I will, through a press article to be published
 >I think for the end of the spring here in Europe. Then, you can
 >express your opinion on that, and let me tell you something: I
 >would like you to do it.

You can always voice your opinion on this case here and now -
why wait for Spring? As a matter of fact, I'm asking you
directly: Do you still think this case is real and why is it
that the identity of Rutter was not discovered by you or other
investigators after having claimed to have thoroughly researched
him?

 >My E-mail is not ovnimexico1@aol.com cause I moved from Mexico
 >and canceled it, but you have available now notiovni@hotmail.com
 >if you want to contact me again. You or whoever would like to
 >express his/her opinion.

I'll be sure to use this e-mail from now on so long as I can get
you to respond.

 >Excuses for my English. My very best regards for you and for all
 >the friends and readers of these e-lists.

Your English is fine, Daniel - no problem at all. I would just
like a clear answer as to where you stand on this case and why
all of the investigators alleging to have thoroughly
investigated this case were not able to find out who 'Dr. Reed'
really was...its just that simple. How so many "real
researchers" were allegedly duped by Rutter is simply amazing.

Thanks for responding and you can contact me anytime you like. I
will always respond to your e-mail.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM








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   May > May 11

              Re: Kudos To Billy Cox and Florida Today - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:32:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:31:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Kudos To Billy Cox and Florida Today - Warren


 >From: Billy Cox <bcox@flatoday.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:57:39 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today

 >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 07:59:56 -0700
 >>Subject: Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today

 >>Errol and Listers:

 >>Kudos to Billy Cox and Florida Today for this very informative article:

 >>http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/columnstoryA18534A.htm

 >>In it, Cox quotes the work of Terry Hansen, author of 'Missing
 >>Times' - a must read - and Patrick Huyghe of 'The Anomalist',

 >>http://www.anomalist.com

 >>and author of 'The Swamp Gas Times'.

 >>I find it most ironic that the very thoughts and opinions of
 >>'debunkologists' could be the direct result of the government's
 >>manipulation of mainstream media, that started over 50 years
 >>ago and has crossed generations!

 >>What is it called when a group or goverment takes direct actions
 >>- covertly - to control public opinion?


 >Thanks, Frank.

 >I'm not all that sure government manipulation of the media re
 >UFOs is going on today; I'm naive enough to think that, given
 >the myriad media outlets at work now, it would be impossible for
 >them to pull it off.

You're welcome Billy.

Your's was unfortunately, an article all too rare!

As far as your opinion on today's manipulation of mainstream
media, your own article mentioned alot of the evidence that
indicates this is still going on!

The 'Disclosure Project' is a good example.

In my opinion, that particular event should have lead all
mainstream news venues based on it's content, i.e., the calibur
of witnesses saying we are not alone!

That we are in contact with extraterrestials and have been for
some time.

Was it on CNN? Did it make the prime time news on any of the
networks? No! The places it did appear, were far and inbetween,
and most reports put a negative spin on the event.

ABCNews.com for example; when I first read their piece on the
Disclosure, it made me think of a bunch of campers that saw a
bright light in the sky! Also they chose to have James Oberg
comment on the event, who wasn't even there, and according to
him only "heard snippets over the streaming-audio!"

Just think if "all" the networks and cable news stations covered
the event! Can you imagine the "hoopla" that would have gone on
across the country the next day?!

When UFOs stopped traffic on the New Jersey TurnPike a few
months ago, did that make the national news at 11:00? No! Did it
merit that kind of coverage? Based on the the drivel that I
see on the news every night, I think the answer is yes!

The list goes on.....

So why would mainstream media choose to ignore these events?

Is there no interest? Polls say there is!

Would this type of news not sell papers? Of course it would, and
then some!

Most people still find it hard to believe that our beloved
government manipulated the media in the forties and fifties, and
through the Vietnam War, even when they've admitted it! Was it a
coincidence that when the Office of Censorship closed it's doors
in '45, within weeks the Signal Security Agency (the predecessor
of the NSA) started 'Project Shamrock'?

Now having said all that, I can appreciate your comment on
naivety. :^))

 >I also don't think the government needs to bother, because the
 >subject has been regarded as leprosy for so long, it's become
 >institutional.

This is my point! This way of thinking didn't happen by
accident!

What is appearing in our airspace today as evidenced by reports
to NUFORC and Filers Files alone, is the very same type of
activity that went on fifty years ago! The only difference is
that in the beginning it was reported as headline news, as the
'weight' of such events would dictate! This is evidenced by my
posts at: http://www.rense.com/historic/hist.htm

 >Go to the Disclosure Project's website and contrast the piece I
 >wrote about their 5/9/01 Press Conference with the piece that
 >Joel Auchenbach wrote for the Washington Post.

Again, you are "a diamond in the ruff!" Also I sent you an e-
  mail shortly after _that_ article appeared thanking you for
your coverage of the event!

 >I think Joel's a smart guy, I like his writing, which makes his
 >stale-cliche approach to the Conference a poor reflection on his
 >skills as a journalist.

 >Oh well - enough of the rant.

 >Thanks for reading, write your Congressman.

Again?

 >Regards,

 >bcox

Keep up the good work!

Frank







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   May > May 11

              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 01:37:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:40:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<snip>

 >I'm sure we can all agree that photographs and videotape cannot
 >prove 'where' a recorded object came from, or 'who' manufactured
 >it. But it remains a conundrum to me that images (that proved
 >after careful analysis not to have been hoaxed/created) of solid
 >objects are not considered hard evidence for the 'presence' of
 >something out of the ordinary. UFOs.

Hi, John:

No matter how much analysis is conducted or by whom there is no
way to _prove_ an image is either genuine or a hoax/fake. The
best we can achieve is opinion based on analyses conducted by
others whether they are "photographic experts" or otherwise.
Whether these opinions are accepted or rejected depends largely
on each person's opinion of the "expert's" qualifications to
render an accurate analysis. So, ultimately, it all boils down
to opinion.

<snip>

 >How much weight is given to photographic evidence? How much
 >weight should be given? If it can be proven that a picture of a
 >UFO was not hoaxed or doctored what does that mean in terms of
 >establishing the presence of something unusual in our skies?
 >How much influence should that kind of evidence have on those
 >who are trying to determine the reality of the phenomena?

Again, there is no way to _prove_ a picture of a UFO was not
hoaxed or doctored. The best that can be managed is a consensus
of "expert" opinion that a picture _seems_ genuine or _seems_ to
have been hoaxed or doctored and work from there.

<snip>

 >I would like a clearer definition of the role that photographic
 >evidence plays in establishing the reality of the presence of
 >UFOs on our world. And let's leave aside any consideration of
 >who is building and piloting these craft or where they may be
 >from. Let's just speak of the photographs as evidence that real
 >and solid, unknown, objects are circumnavigating our skies.

You speak of establishing a reality... a reality of the presence
of UFOs on our world. Perhaps if you change that to...seeking
reality - the truth - about UFOs, the role of photographic
evidence may become clearer.


A. Hebert







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             Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - van Hyum

From: Peter van Hyum <pvanhyum@bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:49:33 +0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:43:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - van Hyum


 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:24:05 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:19:47 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>I'm sure we can all agree that photographs and videotape cannot
 >>>prove 'where' a recorded object came from, or 'who' manufactured
 >>>it. But it remains a conundrum to me that images (that proved
 >>>after careful analysis not to have been hoaxed/created) of solid
 >>>objects are not considered hard evidence for the 'presence' of
 >>>something out of the ordinary. UFOs.

 >><snip>

 >>My focus is on raising public awareness about the reality of UFO
 >>abductions. Some have even accused me of 'pandering' to the
 >>uncaring masses by the approach I have chosen. But everything I
 >>dedicate the time of my life to, is something I have thought out
 >>and thought about extensively. You can't jump from 'A' to 'D'
 >>without losing a great many people in the quantum leap. First
 >>things first. There is a logical progression that needs to take
 >>place before any real progress can be made. Until people accept
 >>the fact that 'UFOs' exist, they will not be able to take the
 >>next logical step to realizing that the UFOs are 'made' by
 >>'someone.' That the 'UFO occupants' whoever they are may have a
 >>'purpose.' That maybe they _are_ interacting with certain people
 >>as reported.


Hi John, Errol, List,

As a rank newcomer to the scene, and with a completely amateur
view on the proceedings, I can't help but applaud the very
obvious but subtle statement;

"Until people accept the fact that 'UFOs' exist, they will not
be able to take the next logical step to realizing that the UFOs
are 'made' by 'someone' ".

In this innocuous, but far reaching statement, I think John has
captured the essence of the debate. The opponents to the
proposition that UFO's of non Earth origin do exist (leave out
the fact that they are possibly piloted by 'someone') must
surely be considered complicit in the 'establishment' cover up.
I also have a grave concern that as a species we are not yet
ready to know the TRUTH. Not wanting to be insensitive to
Americans generally or New Yorkers explicitly, considering the
psychological impact those known FO's on 9/11 had on folks far
and wide, what would have happened had the impacts been UFO's?


Regards

Peter

P.S. If the universe is infinite (and I believe it is), we have
got to come to grips with the reality that we are not the only
travelers.







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 11

              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 06:18:58 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:50:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White


 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:24:05 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:19:47 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >Hiya Eleanor,

 >Please excuse my long-winded response, but this is an important
 >subject/sore spot with me. :)

 >You responded:

 >>The problem of photographic evidence being rejected by the media
 >>and skeptics may well be a result of lack of clear, cogent
 >>rebuttals. The same type of clear, cogent rebuttal you have
 >>written above. To make such rebuttal effective, it has to be put
 >>forth right at the time the denial is spoken or published.
 >>Timing is critical.

 >There was a time on the List when EBK would allow an
 >'attachment' here and there to go out with the posts. In the
 >past I have filed sighting reports on the UpDates List and
 >invited the input/analysis of some of the more 'expert' members.
 >I always made it a point to post a picture or pictures of what I
 >was reporting/had witnessed. It has never been my expectation
 >for anybody to simply take my 'word' for anything. In fact, it's
 >been a habit of mine to always invite questioning and
 >investigation. I have conducted all of my own UFO 'business'
 >honestly, and above board. That's why I go out of my way to
 >_document_ my reports to the best of my ability. The pictures
 >are only being presented as visual 'corroboration' to my verbal
 >report.

 >My responses to the comments and opinions on-list has always
 >been as 'immediate' as it gets. It simply doesn't make any
 >difference whether a given response is 'timely' or not.

I wasn't speaking about you when I mentioned quick response,
John. I've been following UFO news, not intensely, but on the
side, for roughly 50 years. In the media coverage, which has
been largely devoted to debunkers as another lister said
recently, the UFO researchers on camera haven't rebutted the
claims of the debunkers who basically just keep saying "no
evidence, no evidence, no evidence".

It's during those moments on camera (or on the microphone or in
print) that I haven't seen any evidence of adequate rebuttal.

As an activist in another arena, I've learned the hard way that the
only way you get proper rebuttals to happen is to devote some
of your time jotting down rebuttal phrases that occur to you,
(like yours here), then rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing.

This is foreign to UFO researchers whose main interest is to
gather, analyze and present the data as well as humanly
possible. But foreign or not, unless this rehearsal process gets
done, I fear that UFO disclosure will remain a distant dream.

 >As an example of one such set of pictures:

 >I had posted to the List a set of sequential, single frame
 >captures (taken from 8mm videotape) that clearly show a
 >silver/metallic disc tumbling end over end as it hovers in one
 >spot. You can see the clouds moving by _behind_ the disc. But
 >the disc itself although tumbling, remains in a fixed position.
 >It's not a 'hard to see' tiny white dot either. This is an 'easy
 >to see' silver, metal disc. (Although the resolution loss in the
 >transfer from VHS to disc was significant) You can see the
 >images I'm talking about at:

 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/tumbleUFO.html

 >I was told by a couple of the List-members that these frames
 >from the video I recorded were some of the most amazing UFO
 >shots they had ever seen. But they were in the minority. The
 >implications of those images didn't matter much to anybody else.
 >It went by the board, and it was never questioned or mentioned
 >again.

 >On-list I was told that "because film and video can be faked,
 >none of it can be treated as 'hard' evidence." At that point,
 >myself or any other witnesses that are spending $ on photo
 >equipment, and valuable time in sky-watching sessions are simply
 >wasting our energy and resources.

That's why I wrote my suggestions, because time spent collecting
and rehearsing rebuttals can begin to make your time, energy and
resources worth having spent them. I get the sense, and perhaps
I'm wrong here, from listening regularly to SDI that 'activism' is
seen as a kind of 'dirty word', and is not at the same 'level' as
pure research using the best of 'scientific' methodology. I'm saying
that _time_ has elapsed, and the world is very different now than
it was when UFO research started as a personal interest and pure
quest for truth.

It is time to step back and take a look at priorities.

 >The irony and 'catch 22' of it
 >is; I am not going to all this trouble and expense for my own
 >benefit. I already _know_ for a fact that these 'things' are
 >real, I don't do it to convince myself of anything. It is done
 >so that others won't simply have to take me (or any other
 >witness) 'at my word.' I go out of my way to show them _in
 >pictures_ and _on video_ what I have seen. 'Evidence' of what is
 >up there in the skies over one of the largest and most densely
 >populated urban centers on the planet.

 >It _all_ gets blown off and rejected 'out of hand.' I don't
 >understand why pictures that can be shown through analysis not
 >to have been faked, are discarded solely on the basis of the
 >subject/content.

It's because denial and ridicule are among the most powerful
tools available to those who want to stifle truth. In my other
arena, we face as much as you do in the UFO/abduction field, so
I am not saying this idly.

Truth, logic, and honesty are not sufficient to overcome
government and media ridicule and denial. If you want the truth
you researchers treasure to see the light of day, you need more
than truth, logic, and honesty.

Only some 'activism' can hope to reverse the tide, and I don't
hear that you researchers appreciate this yet. It isn't
necessary that you researchers do a whole lot personally, but
there are other supporters who are capable, and who don't have
their time and resources committed to core research.

 >As I said in my original, a picture of the
 >"Imagine" plaque in Central Park would serve as 'proof' that it
 >exists (not 'who' made it or 'where' they come from) and nobody
 >questions it. Show the same people a picture of a silver disc
 >dancing in mid-air and they will reject it immediately and with
 >almost extreme (at times) prejudice.

That makes my point too.

 >If I could throw a rock and break off a chunk of one of these
 >things I would. But my SLR camera and my camcorder are all that
 >I have to prove that 'something' was there and that what I
 >reported was exactly what I saw/witnessed. I'm told it isn't
 >'good enough.' That is why nobody has seen or heard any UFO
 >sighting reports from me in quite some time. Mind you, the
 >sightings continue.

 >It makes me wonder how many others are simply frustrated and put
 >off to the point where they don't even bother telling anyone any
 >more. I know I am.

 >>Photographs are evidence, period. If they weren't, why does
 >>every police department use them to back up their cases?

 >Try telling that to someone who is looking at a photo of a "UFO"
 >and not the mangled body of some poor accident victim.

That's what UFO researchers, _and_their_supporters_, need to do
more of. _Repetition_ works. You need to be just as repetitive
in telling the truth as the debunkers are in telling lies.

I know mainstream media access is tough, but you do get that
once-a-year UFO statistics article into print. That is a
significant leg-up.

Why not take some of your time to recruit activism-minded
supporters? With fairly high percentages of believers, you have
a good shot at getting something going. A small but dependable
corps of supporters could flood the editors of any media
outlet who publishes nonsense from debunkers with well thought
out, rehearsed and above all _short_ and concise, responses.

And a crucial necessity is to organize a 'debunker alarm network',
basically an email notification list, so that the moment any member
learns of a case of debunker lies, the entire group can be put into
motion to protest with emails, letters, faxes and phone calls.

Anything less, and your work and that of other researchers will
remain neatly buried, right where the cover up organization
wants it.


Eleanor White







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   May > May 11

                         Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 06:21:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:53:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Hatch


 >From: Royce J. Myers - <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:20:36 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment

 >>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:58:11 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>>From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment
 >>>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:24:59 -0700 >>

<snip>

 >>>Day 8 and still no answers... [snip]

 >>I've been threatened at MUFON for my forthcoming article - in
 >>which they have no idea what I was going to say. Perhaps I was
 >>too close to home, knowing these guys long before this Reed
 >>thing.

 >>Iaria has threatened a lawsuit if, "Ms Andersen" does a character
 >>assassination on Reed. Not sure character assassination means
 >>telling the truth.

 ><snip>

 >Kathleen,

 >I think any threat of a lawsuit here is an absurd joke and
 >nothing more than a smoke screen while these clowns run for
 >cover. How in the hell can you slander 'Dr. Reed' when we now
 >know the person claiming to be him is not that person? For that
 >matter, what name is he going to sue under - his real name or
 >'Dr. Jonathan Reed'? From what I understand, those folks are
 >probably going to be on the receiving end of a lawsuit at this
 >rate... can you spell F-R-A-U-D?


Hello Royce and Kathleen:

I must sincerely thank Royce for a most enjoyable expose'!

It is not often that I see this; a blatant fake completely
exposed. I respectfully disagree that this is overkill. I see it
as a sort of internal police work, just the work many of us have
been calling for.

I'm no legal expert, far from it. If anyone threatened me with
lawsuits, especially somebody this far in the wrong, I would
seek out some qualified counsel. (There are inexpensive one-
hour legal consultations, check around.)

My gut feel is that any decent lawyer would implore you to _beg_
these fools for a lawsuit! The legal threat is a poker-bluff.
Call the cards; looks like they don't have a pair of deuces.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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              Re: Mcminnville UFO Fest Comprehensive Program -

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 06:56:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:45:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Mcminnville UFO Fest Comprehensive Program -


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 20:37:48 +0200
 >Subject: Mcminnville UFO Fest Comprehensive Program

 >I sent two introductions to Mcminnville's UFO Festival
 >already, but this program is far more comprehensive.

 >Source: Statesman Journal (Salem, Oregon), May 10, 2002.

 >http://news.statesmanjournal.com/cityguide/article.cfm?i=3D3755

 >Stig

 >***

 >UFO Fest flies into McMinnville

 >**

 >The event will include a costume ball and a film festival.

 >BY ANGELA YEAGER
 >Statesman Journal

<snip>


Hello Stig!

I get automated/automatic invitations to all sorts of UFO
hootenannies. I avoid them like the black plague.

The only one I ever went to was in San Mateo, Calif. in 1995 or
thereabouts. I went to pass around some flyers about my *U* UFO
Database software, and must have been the most "innocent" party
in the building, if naivet=E9 implies innocence.

In one corner, some new-age airhead was selling gaily colored
glass beads with presumably mystic properties. The walls were
lined with booths selling Tee-shirts, coffee mugs, gawd knows
what else... all suitably ET/UFO themed.

As was walking out, in a state of bewilderment, some woman from
Germany passed me going the other way. Her hair was colored with
what appeared to be three different flavors of Kool-Aid.

Frankly, McMinnville is history. I still like the photos from
that poor farmer; but that's beside the point. My point is that
I would avoid a UFO convention if they held it right across the
street.

To paraphrase some luminary, and I'm way too tired to look it
up: "Anyone with a 12-pack and a modem constitutes a convention
of one. " [burp!]


Very Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                         Re: Something I Saw - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:22:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:47:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Something I Saw - Velez


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:21:33 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Something I Saw

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 18:48:56 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Something I Saw

 >>>Anyhow, both Richard and I are baffled. We're not claiming we
 >>>saw anything unexplainable. We just don't know what the
 >>>explanation is. Neither of us have ever seen anything remotely
 >>>like this. Nor have we heard of anything.

 >>>Can anyone on the List enlighten us? I'd be grateful.

 >>Sounds to me like you've both seen an "unidentified" flying object.
 >>Until it becomes "identified" it will remain a "UFO." I wonder how
 >>Mr. Vocal Skeptic (brother-in-law) will take to being on the other
 >>side of the fence.  (From 'skeptic' to a witness living with an open
 >>question.)   ;)

 >>Warmest regards, and it's nice to see you out here on
 >>the range!

 >Yo, John,

 >I'd have _loved_ this to be something so amazing that my brother
 >in law would be converted instantly. You know, like a metallic
 >disk hanging right overhead. In fact, forget about him - I'd
 >have loved to see something like that myself. (Or maybe I'd have
 >loved it. Maybe I'd have been scared spitless.)

 >But given what we saw, he wasn't much bothered. He said, with a
 >big smile, "Maybe it was a UFO!" Meaning something without a
 >normal explanation, probably alien. But he figures it must be
 >something known, even if we can't identify it, and I'm assuming
 >the same thing, until proven otherwise. I think Dick Hall's
 >point is important here - a UFO is something that can't be
 >explained even after investigation. Richard and I are both
 >pretty sane (I hope), but we're not experts on everything we
 >might see in the night sky over NYC.

Hiya Greg,

You wrote:

 >I'm waiting to hear from people who know more than I do.

Geez, I guess that leaves me out!  ;)

 >That said, it was really very odd. I don't think I've heard of
 >anything like it in the annals of UFO sightings, though again
 >others will know more than I do.

I've spent the last couple of days looking (specifically) for
some UFO photos I have seen on the Internet of a UFO that
perfectly fits the description of what you and Richard saw. The
photos I'm hunting for are among those that have been taken in
Mexico. As soon as I read your report I thought of these shots.
The second I track them down I'll post the URL to the List so
that both of you, as well as any interested Listerions, can go
check them out.

If I am correct, I think the pictures will blow your mind.  :)

Regards till next,

John Velez







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               Re: re Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:23:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:49:31 -0400
Subject: Re: re Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 06:43:28 -0400

 >>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>Hi All,

 ><snip>

 >>I would like a clearer definition of the role that photographic
 >>evidence plays in establishing the reality of the presence of
 >>UFOs on our world. And let's leave aside any consideration of
 >>who is building and piloting these craft or where they may be
 >>from. Let's just speak of the photographs as evidence that real
 >>and solid, unknown, objects are circumnavigating our skies.

 >>Any takers?

Hiya Steve,

You wrote:

 >Photographs, video clips, and other recorded material are
 >subject to some level of interpretation which inserts the
 >viewers personal beliefs (or reality) into the mix.

True, but the only real question that needs to be asked of any
photo or video is whether it has been faked or doctored in any
way.

 >The rules of evidence, with regard to photographs (etc), depends
 >in part on the target audience. There is no universal definition
 >of what would be accepted, and I think that even among those on
 >this list you'll find a vast spectrum of interpretations for
 >many of them.

I know that to be true from first hand experience amigo.  :)

 >A picture may be worth a thousand words, but for many it's all
 >just talk.... <g>

Yeah, but it shouldn't be. If a photo holds up under
professional scrutiny it should be considered among the
'evidence' for the report it accompanies. Photos can't tell you
if an object is from Tralfamador or if ET is building and
piloting them, but it sure can tell you if the 'unidentified'
object the individual is reporting was really 'there' or not.

Regards,

John Velez







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                      Re: Former 'Kink' Album... Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:30:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:52:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Former 'Kink' Album... Velez


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 05:32:46 +0200
 >Subject: Former 'Kink' Album Inspired By Personal ET Contact

 >Source: The Plain Dealer on Cleveland.com, May 9, 2002,

 >http://www.cleveland.com/music/plaindealer/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_stand
ard.xsl?/base/entertainment/10209367562264976.xml
 >
 >Stig
 >
 >***
 >
 >Music News

 >**

 >If your brain's been bugged, give a listen to this album

 >05/09/02

 >John Soeder
 >Plain Dealer Pop Music Critic

 >*

 >As a member of the Kinks, rock 'n' roller Dave Davies was a key
 >figure in the British Invasion of the 1960s. Now he's into space
 >invaders.

 >For his latest solo project, 'Bug', the singer-guitarist has
 >cooked up a doozy of a concept album about how our lives are
 >manipulated by mind- controlling implants. And who planted those
 >nasty devices in our noggins, you ask? Why, the aliens, of
 >course!

 >"It's tongue in cheek," Davies says, not entirely convincingly.
 >He'll perform tonight at the Beachland Ballroom and Tavern,
 >backed by a four-piece band.

Hiya Stig,

<LOL>

I thought I was the only one who referred to 'them' as "Bugs"!
Either Dave has seen em' and he thinks they look like bugs too
or he's been reading my posts to UpDates!  :)

Another piece of Kinks/Velez synchronicity is; when I worked as
a lithographer I was part of the team that designed the Kinks
album cover for, 'Give The People What They Want'. We won an
insider, printing Industry award for that sucker. My former
employer still has the plaque hanging in his office. All I got
was a free album and a pat on the back.

"Bugs" - I've been plagerized!  <lol>

Now that he has co-opted my descriptive word for the Greys, I
think Dave owes me at least a concert ticket or three! :)


Regards,

John Velez, Lifetime pet project of the "Bugs."







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                               New To The List

From: LaDonna <harmony@app-net.com>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:16:09 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:56:03 -0400
Subject: New To The List

Hello,

I'm new to the List, and although I have no credentials to
entitle me to debate issues, I do want to make a comment.

The sort of fraudulent UFO claims, such as the Reed case, always
are the most popular with the press. These are what cause so
many people reluctance in publicly relating what they have seen.
I've been interested in UFOs since the mid-60's when I saw the
news report of Betty and Barney Hill's incident. I was just a
kid, and the interest has carried over.

Without going into particulars of what I have seen that convince
me there are strange things in the sky, I just want to share
that over the years, many people in my little town have told me
about things they have seen. They tell me because everyone knows
I'm interested, but they don't tell other people for fear of
ridicule.

In any event, I am a teacher in a small school. Of the 22
teachers there, almost half of them have related personal
stories to me. It took some of them several years to decide to
share these things. The more questions I ask, the more convinced
I become that too many people see things for the experience to
be completely fictional. In addition, I have talked to former
students who have gone into the military.

One told me he could tell me what he knew, but he'd have to
shoot me if he did. Another told me of visiting his brother at
an air base and being warned that the signs reading "no
admittance: use of deadly for authorized" meant exactly what it
said.

I have no idea why credible reports by sane, honest, everyday
people are given such bad press. I do know that there are far
more credible sightings that go unreported by credible witnesses
as a result. Any suggestions about how simply interested persons
like myself can get good people to come forward?


LA in WV










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             Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:26:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:57:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Fleming


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 01:37:42 -0500

<snip>

 >No matter how much analysis is conducted or by whom there is no
 >way to _prove_ an image is either genuine or a hoax/fake. The
 >best we can achieve is opinion based on analyses conducted by
 >others whether they are "photographic experts" or otherwise.
 >Whether these opinions are accepted or rejected depends largely
 >on each person's opinion of the "expert's" qualifications to
 >render an accurate analysis. So, ultimately, it all boils down
 >to opinion.

If that's true, then there's very little "hard evidence" for
anything and much of established science boils down to a matter
of opinion. For instance, I'd consider fossils as (literally)
hard evidence supporting evolutionary theory, but fossils _can_
be faked, as was proven by the Piltdown Man hoax. Taking their
cue from that incident, creationists deride the fossils of the
first bird-like reptile, Archaeopterix, as the "Piltdown
Chicken." Photographs are hard evidence even if in general they
can be faked, just as fossils can be.







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                       Re: Fire The Government - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:01:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 19:00:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Fire The Government - Clark


 >From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:05:43 -0500
 >Subject: Fire The Government

 >There is a perfectly legal cure.....

 >Fire The Government Petition

 >Our government was set up 226 years ago for an illiterate
 >population that no longer exists. We can wrest control from the
 >government only if we can set aside our petty differences and
 >work as a team.

Why is it implicitly assumed here that all differences within a
society are merely "petty"? Oh, well....

 >If we can get a majority of the people to sign this ballot we
 >will have legal authority to remove this criminal organization
 >from power.

The above is so out to lunch that one hesitates to acknowledge
it, for fear of making it look like something passing for
rational opinion. But I would like to take this opportunity to
urge Listfolk to participate in the political lives of their
respective democracies. VOTE, people. In a democracy you get the
kind of government you deserve. If you don't happen to like the
people currently in power, you have a free voice and a vote. Use
them to put somebody better in power.

I know this isn't as thrilling an option as the barstool
solution of firing the gummint, but it's an infinitely more
doable, realistic, and grown-up one.


Jerry Clark







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                         Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:57:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 19:04:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Myers


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 06:21:48 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud

 >>From: Royce J. Myers - <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:20:36 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment

 >>>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:58:11 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 8 and Still No Comment
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>>>From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Day 7 and Still No Comment
 >>>>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:24:59 -0700 >>

 ><snip>

 >Hello Royce and Kathleen:

 >I must sincerely thank Royce for a most enjoyable expose'!

 >It is not often that I see this; a blatant fake completely
 >exposed. I respectfully disagree that this is overkill. I see it
 >as a sort of internal police work, just the work many of us have
 >been calling for.

 >I'm no legal expert, far from it. If anyone threatened me with
 >lawsuits, especially somebody this far in the wrong, I would
 >seek out some qualified counsel. (There are inexpensive one-
 >hour legal consultations, check around.)

 >My gut feel is that any decent lawyer would implore you to _beg_
 >these fools for a lawsuit! The legal threat is a poker-bluff.
 >Call the cards; looks like they don't have a pair of deuces.


Hi Larry,

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm not a lawyer either, but have to agree that this threat of a
lawsuit is a smoke screen designed for damage control - don't
know how you can do any PR for an obvious fraud to begin with.
How in the hell can the person that was claiming to be 'Dr.
Reed' sue anyone??? We all know what his real name is now.

Iaria has reportedly told a Russian journalist that he would sue
for anything that was not "positive" in print about the case. So
now he apparently is telling journalists what they can and
cannot write about the Reed UFO Fraud. Some people just don't
get it...

Wonder why Iaria hasn't yet made a statement. For that matter, I
wonder why he still has his website up. I know those involved in
this case have visited my webiste with regularity. I'm frankly
surprised to see anyone with a shred of common sense, or a trace
of brain matter, giving this case any credence or defending it
in any way.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM





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                 Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 22:18:24 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 19:08:06 -0400
Subject:  Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech?


Did Roswell Debris Inspire Working, 'Antigravitational'
Technology?

Source: Wired News, May 11, 2002,

http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,52432,00.html

Stig

***

'Lifters': An Idea in the Clouds
By Michelle Delio

2:00 a.m. May 11, 2002 PDT

**

Antigravitational devices developed by a computer geek could
eventually change the world as we know it.

Or they may just blow a few holes into some barn roofs.

The devices are known as "lifters." When charged with a small
amount of electrical power, they levitate, apparently able to
resist Earth's gravitational forces.

Currently, the devices can only levitate themselves. But
developer Tim Ventura and others are working to convert
electrical current into a force that can lift and move planes,
trains and rocket ships. If that proves possible, the technology
that powers lifters could extend the ability to explore space
and drastically cut the use of fossil fuels on Earth.

But skepticism from mainstream researchers who wonder why lifter
developers don't submit their devices for independent testing --
  coupled with the strange tales that are told within the lifter
development community -- have tainted the devices' reputation in
scientific circles.

Lifter developers and conventional scientists do agree on one
issue: Oddball theories about how the universe works are worth
investigating.

Scientists at NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics project are
researching theories that at first glance would seem to be
hanging even further off the bleeding edge of rationality than
the lifter. Current projects include possible methods of
manipulating space-time -- that's time travel in lay terms.

"All major scientific breakthroughs were scoffed at when they
first debuted," Marc Millis, a researcher at the Breakthrough
Propulsion Physics project, said. "To move forward, a scientist
has to explore the seemingly impossible."

Lifter technology hasn't yet been proved "possible" for anything
more than hobbyist use. But developers said they are getting
closer every day.

Ventura, a UNIX programmer for AT&T Wireless, builds lifters in
his spare time. He constructs the devices with balsa wood,
aluminum foil and 30-gauge magnet wire.

Ventura's lifters are triangle-shaped frames that at first
glance look like a craft project created by an artistically
challenged individual.

But when connected to a power source, a lifter suddenly shoots
skyward to the extent that its earthbound tethers permit, and
then hovers about in the air.

Ventura uses an old Compaq computer display to power his
lifters. Two wires come off the lifter, a positive power lead
connected (PDF) via a high-voltage tap to the monitor's picture
tube, which redirects electricity from the picture tube to the
lifter, and a ground wire, also connected to the monitor.

Lifters seemingly do levitate and hover without standard
propellants, but the problem is that no one is quite sure why.

Some developers believe that electricity stimulates the
electrons on the lifter's surface, providing propulsion. Other
theories such as ion-wind currents or electromagnetic
disturbance of the air around the lifter have also been
proposed, but there has been little scientific testing.

"At least four different groups are pursuing (lifter technology)
that I know of. None of these groups has yet published peer-
reviewed rigorous literature on their observations or methods,"
NASA's Millis said. "Lifter creators' lack of interest in
standard scientific procedure is tainting this topic and
impeding progress toward a reliable resolution of the remaining
unknowns."

Millis was cheered by Congress' recent decision to earmark funds
for a scientific study of lifter technology, which will be
conducted by the Institute of Software Research this summer.

Ventura said he has considered submitting his work for
scientific review, but it isn't "on the top of my to-do list."
But he said he may soon be working with the Plasma Physicists
project at Princeton University.

"I would welcome any real outcome to this research," Millis
said. "Proof that lifters do or do not work would be equally
valuable. Right now, all we have is what amounts to folk tales."

Ventura readily admits that lifter developers do tell some
strange tales.

One story is that the idea for lifters came from pieces of UFO
wreckage taken from the Roswell site. A parcel of purported
crash parts was sent by an unknown person to radio talk show
host Art Bell in 1996.

Bell sent them to a government researcher, whose investigations
reportedly indicated that when electrical voltage was applied to
the parts, they would move and in some cases levitate in much
the same way as lifters do.

So some lifter developers believe that their devices are modeled
after UFOs.

"As an inventor, I couldn't care less whether or not the idea
for the technology came from a crashed UFO," Ventura said. "To
be perfectly honest, I'm not what you would call a 'believer'
anyway."

Ventura has tinkered with another lifter legend: the "Gravity
Capacitor."

Said by some to be the true parent of current lifter technology,
the Capacitor is rumored to have been developed accidentally by
a 17-year-old trying to build a variation of "Fitzeau's
Condenser" (a type of energy storage device) in the 1930s, and
instead stumbled upon a method for controlling gravity with
electricity.

When the boy connected his tinfoil and waxed-paper device to the
ignition coil of a Ford Model T, the Capacitor immediately
levitated at such a tremendous speed that it left behind only a
smoking exit hole in the roof of the barn.

Ventura wryly notes that the capacitor's self-destructive nature
makes it a less-than-ideal test apparatus for investigating
gravitational forces.

"Six hours of cutting foil strips and waxed paper is a lot of
work for three seconds of smoke."

**

Related Wired Links:

A Tax Plan to (and From) Space
April 26, 2002

Tides Key to Europa's Secrets?
April 2, 2002

Lying Down Is the Job
March 26, 2002

NASA Gets a New Fix on Problems
Feb. 22, 2002

Filling In Answers to Black Holes
Jan. 24, 2002

Where Did That Galaxy Go?
Dec. 12, 2001

'Ginger': Think And It Will Do
Dec. 3, 2001

Mars Society Boldly Goes to Oz
Nov. 15, 2001

**

Copyright =A9 1994-2002 Wired Digital Inc. All rights
reserved.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 11

              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:11:53 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 19:10:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White


 >From: Peter van Hyum <pvanhyum@bigpond.net.au>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:49:33 +0800

 >>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:24:05 -0400
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:19:47 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>>Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<snip>

 >I also have a grave concern that as a species we are not yet
 >ready to know the TRUTH.

How, then, is it that the military and government personnel who
have known the truth for years, are ready to know the truth?

Are they something different than human, made of sterner stuff?


Eleanor White







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 12

                           Reed UFO Fraud - Munoz

From: Daniel Munoz <notiovni@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 02:01:58 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 12:38:30 -0400
Subject: Reed UFO Fraud - Munoz


 >From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud
 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:07:26 -0700

 >First, let me be clear in saying that I am not trying to be
 >inflammatory in this response. I will say that I respect Daniel
 >Munoz for having the courage for at least trying to come forward
 >- he apparently has a lot more courage than some of the other
 >folks that have yet to directly comment on the story posted at
 >my website. Frankly, I'm tired of getting half answers and
 >people dodging questions. I would like a direct, straight answer
 >regarding this case.

 >Daniel, why are you still referring to him as "Reed"? We all
 >know that isn't his real name. "Now I'm also writing on the
 >subject, and yes, Reed's case will be within my interests and
 >goals, 'cause its importance in the field, also thanks to your
 >investigations." So, are you saying the case is a fraud or not?

I really thank you for your attitude and openess, Royce. And
also have to tell you I am not expressing half answers, but the
ones I have reached until now. I'm sorry if I decided to stop my
investigations about that case before finishing it, 'cause my
separation from the staff of Jaime Maussan. Is very simple: I am
not interested any longer in that case as I was formerly. I have
seen things that I did not like very much (not at a research
level, but at a personal level) with this man, that maybe you
are pretty sure is Rutter, but I'm not in that position, 'cause
I stopped the research, I repeat. Now, ask to the Ufo family,
make a poll about the Rutter's case, and maybe very few fellows
(even in this list) will answer to you positively in knowing it.
But if you say the Reed's case, certainly the most will be aware
who you are talking about. Don't flag too much this point,
'cause is not really important in how to refeer about it to.
Rutter, Reed; Aria, Raith... Not too much difference and not too
much importance, in my oppinion... We both know more than very
well who we are speaking about, don't we?

What I had said before is that this case is real in certain
elements, that exist and are present as samples in Mexico, like
the plants and soil samples and so on, that revealed after being
tested and analyzed by Dr. Zohar Gutierrez that there, in that
place in the Cascade Mountains I was personally in (and that
matches perfectly with the place shown in the infamous video
Reed presents as evidence of the events in 1996), it happened
something at an electromagnetic level that changed the
composition of the organic elements of those samples, and that
such energy, very strong by the way, left its fingerprints on
the wood of the trees, found at a profundity of six to seven
layers below the one on the surface of the tree. I did by myself
the collection of the samples, not being suggested by Reed or
anyone else. I just started to collect what I knew could give
out some results, if any... That's it. I can't say 100% this is
a fraud, only because the things you have found, because I found
those things that speak very clearly about something Reed never
said to me, but it was found. Or do you think he and his team
seed the radiation Beta Type 6 years ago, in order somebody
could reach that place to find it without saying them nothing?
Or well, do you think they or himself alone were able to affect
dramatically the branches of the trees in that area, in a way
that their growing and their orientation changed (by almost
bending'em) very differently just in those trees around the
alleged place of the events, in deep contrast with the trees
surrounding the area? Or about the growing of a species of big
mushrooms that are present in the trees, excepting in those
ones, too? If this is possible and demonstrable, please let me
know it, 'cause I am very ignorant on that matter...

Those are the reasons because I can't say 100% this case is a
fraud. I can tell yes, there are some lies or ellucubrations
around for sure, but in the case of the samples, no one told me
what to do or what to find or to look for, but an engineer in
Mexico. No one from Reed's staff at all... They were actually
boring when I was making my analisys, by the way... All is on
video...

Excuse me if my text could contain half answers in your
opinion... That's not my intention. Maybe I'm not giving to you
the answers you would like to receive, Royce? Anyway I apologize
for it... I have no interest at all in defend or protect that
case. At all...

 >I clearly remember the e-mails you sent, I saved them all. Yes,
 >you contacted me after I directly invited you to do so after
 >someone sent me an e-mail you sent to another list about me. I
 >also remember you writing to me:

 >"In fact, you also can contact Jaime Maussan through me. Believe
 >me that what we would like the most is to know the real truth
 >about this case, and that's is the main reason we are
 >investigating this way." and also stating "Feel free to write to
 >Jaime whenever you want. You now know the right way. And if you
 >have the real evidences that this case is a hoax, just let us
 >know with evidences. As journalists, that's what we are looking
 >for."

 >My subsequent e-mails to you went unanswered but did arrive at
 >your e-box. Not only did I ask for info regarding this alleged
 >camera shop where the film was supposed to have been developed
 >at, I also sent you info regarding the fact that Harold Chacon
 >and Robert Aria (aka Robert 'Raith') both worked at the same
 >mini-mart together for at least the past 5 years. The two
 >claimed to have never met until June 1999 and Chacon lied on
 >national radio about being a doctor. In both instances, I never
 >received a response from you even though I sent several e-mails
 >after you invited me to do so. I take you gave this info to
 >Jaime as stated in your e-mail to me...?

 >Also, why is it that these video tapes you allege to contain
 >"amazing" things were left in Mexico by you? I find it hard to
 >believe that this so-called evidence has just been sitting
 >around and has not been disclosed. Is this merely more of an
 >opening for Rutter to attempt to squeeze through - though I
 >don't think anyone will be letting him do that considering there
 >are a lot of people that are very upset over this fraud.

Yes, is true that at those dates I was the way to contact Jaime
Maussan, simply because he did not reply or check his mails at
that time... Very easy... Or not to often, at least... That's
it. I was the man in charge to be the link for that office with
the net, and it finished time ago with my decision.

Yes, I am looking for the truth, even in this case, but in this
moment not with the intensity I was before, for the causes I
already explained. I'm still a journalist and a researcher, but
I cannot speak on behalf of Jaime Maussan. He should make his
own statements on this, not me. But yes, at that time I was
involved in that, 'cause I was working with him... Not any
longer... Not any more... In any case, I can assure I passed
along to him your E-mails promptly and in its fully version, no
editions at all. He received even the possibility to reply to
you directly, 'cause the mails I passed on to him, showed your
E-mail... He never asked me to reply to you, but to continue
with the investigation... In any case, the answer for this is
with him, not with me...

About Chacon and Raith, I can tell you that they told me, in
fact, that they worked at that gas station. Yes, they did. Did
it changed or affected my oppinion or my research? No, not at
all... This was because is normal that even an engineer can sell
bananas or books, and not for this is possible to say that is
not an engineer or that doesn't know about engineering... At
all... At least, in Mexico and Latin America it happen very
often... Doesn't it happen in the States?

For me is not relevant that point, at least not conclusive. And
remember I called the University, and they confirmed many things
you told me there were lies... But they told me they were
real...

I also worked in a hotel and in a market in Mexico, but also I
worked before that in an Embassy and with the Foreign Affairs
Ministry of Mexico, and now I work in the mass media and in the
UFO field, even if I studied Electromechanics... Does it change
something, Royce? I was awarded for being the most outstanding
student of japanese in 1988 in Mexico, and went to Japan 1
month, and after that, I started to work in the Embassy of
Japan, at the Japan Foundation Office, and never studied
International relations... Was I a fraud for not studying that,
Royce? Was I? That's the reason I say this is not relevant, but
circumstantial...

Yes, is possible that in certain circumstances (that I prefeer
not to speak about in here), I could left over the videos in
that office in Mexico, even if is almost incredible after such
separation... But they are there. At least 5 hours of
interviews, field research, images, etc. taken in Seattle about
that case. If they are not disclosed yet, is even difficult for
me to understand... Why are still there, in a box? I suggested
Jaime to use them several times, but I also wait for actions
regarding that. Is very important in my oppinion to publish
that. But frankly I ignore if Reed and Jaime agreed something
for not disclose that yet... I never asked'em about it at all...
Anyway, I spoke above about some of the things that were found
on those not alleged, but real, factual samples...

Royce, I believe you found the witnesses to clarify the fraud,
and I applaud you expose their testimonies publicly to do it...
Why shouldn't I be believed when I say I collected those samples
and that Dr. Zohar Gutierrez found amazing things? Please
remember I am not the responsable for disclose those evidences
any longer... I am also waiting for that, as I stated above...
So I ask you to believe if I tell these things, because they are
true. Could it be possible, Royce? >

 >The facts are a bit more than just "quite interesting". The
 >facts conclusively prove that Rutter is lying about this case
 >and who he actually is.

OK, let's see what the other side has to say (Rutter, Reed, or
whatever could be his name)... Then, if you want, crucify him...
Did he replied to you about your investigations? Maybe Dan
Iaria?

 >What things are these that made you "understanding the 100% was
 >not true at all..."? Why weren't these reported to the public?

Because they are not for public knowledge, Royce, 'cause have
nothing to do with "the case" at all... They have to do with his
personna, his way to behave, and are personal... Royce, if you
make an investigation and you put it openly available for the
public in the net, is OK if they ask you about it... But are
they in their right to ask you about, for instance, the way you
relationate with girls? Has it something to do with your
investigations? You have now the answer... It has nothing to do
at all... Well, I insist: you have now the answer... Those
things, even if are appart from the case, allowed me to know
more about his personality, and I did not like it at all... And
He and his staff know very well this situation... I'm very clear
in those things, but also very honest in not tell publicly what
is private...

 >The link is nothing more than a prop. Where are all of the
 >alleged lab reports? Where's the hard evidence? There is none
 >because the man claiming to be "Dr.Jonathan Reed" in this case
 >is a fraud. These are questions I have raised since this dupe of
 >a UFO case came out in 1998. All of this alleged secrecy
 >surrounding all of this so-called evidence - this ploy ran out
 >of gas the first year this scam came out. The same tired stories
 >about 'Dr. Reed' being kidnapped and beaten - those too ran out
 >of gas long ago...for as many beating as this guy was supposed
 >to have taken, its amazing he is still walking...physical
 >assaults, being shot - the guy must be made by Timex...We all
 >know if the big, bad black ops guys were out to get him that
 >Rutter would have been pushing daisies by the dozen long ago...

I agree in this with you, Royce, 'cause I also need more than a
story about kidnapping to close a case... About the "link
bracelet", I taped something very similar to what is shown in
photos, and it was powerfully custodiated by the police in
Mexico, and after Otro Rollo flew away from that country... If
it was an extraterrestrial device, of course I cannot say that
at all...

But what if Reed is working for some institution in the
intelligence or for the "big black ops" as you call them,
whoever "they" could be? Could it change something, Royce, also
for the fact that there were rumors spread that Reed was just a
trap to debunk Jaime Maussan with a hoax?

 >There are no impressions here, just the clear facts that
 >demonstrate this case to be a complete fraud. Again, why do you
 >keep referring to him as "Reed" - his real name is John Bradley
 >Rutter. I just don't get how anyone could still think this man
 >has any credibility. Glad the guy calling himself "Reed" is
 >still in touch with you, he has yet to answer the e-mail I sent
 >to him. He must be waiting for that next convenient excuse to
 >come along...

Thanks for saying this... I explained above why I still call him
Reed, so I won't touch this point again. But it would be very
interesting (and i would ask him to do it) what the reply to
your mail could be, if this is not personal, of course... I
don't think he has to tell me nothing, but to you... Anyway,
let's see what will or could happen the next days...

 >I will have a transcript of that program on my website very soon.

OK, good for that. If you need an oppinion or something from me,
you also can ask me for... I'm available, even if very busy
sometimes. So, I apology in advance if I don't reply immediatly
sometimes...

 >'Dr. Reed' kidnapped again? This is just more of the same bunk
 >crap - excuses, excuses, excuses. Of course he's going to tell
 >you that I'm a debunker and so is everyone else that has
 >something vested in this bogus case. Yes, I'm quite sure Rutter
 >had a convenient explanation for everything including the photos
 >of him, the firsthand witnesses that have gone on record and the
 >video tapes I have of him at family gatherings during the time
 >he claimed to be on the run. Couple that with the fact that he
 >didn't own the Jeep he claimed to have hauled the alien around
 >in until over a year after the bogus encounter and official King
 >County documents showing who he is.

 >This con has more aliases in it than the mob. Daniel, if you'd
 >like, I can direct you to where his mother lives and where he
 >lives at. Daniel, did he ever take you to any restaurants in
 >Seattle during your visit there? Did people there 'recognize'
 >him? Let me know about that, will you?

 >One of my witnesses saw Rutter at his mother's house when an
 >ambulance showed up there on May 2nd - I'm sure it wouldn't be a
 >problem getting a record of that. Also, wasn't he supposed to be
 >on the run starting in October 1996? Why is it then that I have
 >photos of him from Thanksgiving Day in 1996 at his ex-
 >girlfriend's daughter's home? How about video of him at family
 >gatherings during Christmas two years in a row? There is no
 >campaign to debunk or discredit this fraudulent UFO hoax -

 >Rutter has succeeded in doing that himself by lying from the
 >start.

Yes. I was in some of those restaurants, and people recognized
him, but also in other places... Was this prepared? Of course it
is a possibility, but many other things happened that even they
don't know, this kind, in my staying to Seattle...

For me, the story of this new kidnapping was strange, too... But
I did not so far away, 'cause I'm away from it... If it happen
that I can go to the States, I certainly would like to know that
data, and maybe meet you and talk...

 >I, along with others, still await for Jaime Maussan to comment
 >on the story at my website and the real facts about this case.
 >The question here is how come not one of the so-called
 >investigators involved in this case was able to identify Rutter
 >for who he was?

I'm still waiting for many statements on this case, and not only
from Jaime maussan, but from Reed... Or Rutter, or whoever he
is.

 >Daniel, we've been given these assurances time and again from
 >people involved in this case. Is this just like the so-called
 >analysis of the 'link artifact' done by Rodolfo Garrido? See:

 >http://www.aliendestiny.com/PageMexicoCity/RodolfoLinkAnalysis.htm

 >This analysis would is laughable at best. This hardly qualifies
 >as a high school research paper on nano-technology much less an
 >"analysis" of any alien device. It simply gives a brief history
 >of nano-technology and some measurement of the prop used by
 >Rutter.

Unfortunately, yes, the samples are in Mexico, and I'm also
waiting to be published the results... Even myself, who
collected all the data...

 >Again, what about the fact that Chacon and Aria both worked at
 >the same gas station for 5 years? This single fact alone should
 >have clued most people in. About the university in Puerto Rico
 >that Chacon alleges to have graduated from - Funny, I called
 >both the numbers on that reference letter you're holding in the
 >video - neither one is for the Catholic University of Puerto
 >Rico. Can you also explain why the last name on the degree
 >alleging to belong to Chacon is blacked out? Why is Dan Iaria
 >claiming that the university is Spanish speaking only, yet
 >Chacon's degree is in English? I know that Chacon works at that
 >gas station for two reasons: 1) I called the gas station and
 >talked with him, and 2) I've been to that gas station and talked
 >with employees there confirming that both he and Aria work
 >there. At the time (July 2001), Aria had quit and was telling
 >people he worked with that he was "traveling and getting rich."
 >Did Chacon tell you about his employment at the gas station?

Royce, you are right. Those phone numbers are not any longer for
that place... I found the very same results... For that, I
looked for the University using the yellow pages, suceeding.
Then i called, and found that person who wrote the letter, and
spoke to her as I explained before...

As far as I know, either one of the documents I had had any
censorship. I really ignore if in an edition this last name was
deleted or blacked out in the office of Jaime Maussan... I saw
copies of those titles and diplommas, and everything was
confirmed in that phone call...

About the gas station, I commented some things above...

 >There are no attacks here - just simple questions requiring
 >straight answers.

OK, got it.

 >You can always voice your opinion on this case here and now -
 >why wait for Spring? As a matter of fact, I'm asking you
 >directly: Do you still think this case is real and why is it
 >that the identity of Rutter was not discovered by you or other
 >investigators after having claimed to have thoroughly researched
 >him?

I repeat again that I don't work with Maussan any longer, so
what I will do, will be done in its time and not before, just
for a simple reason of lack of time and saturation of work in
Europe. This simple. It will be done trough a magazine, and will
be presented in a number for that time... They have their times
and that's it. They are not second intentions or half truths in
here. Is editorial logistics. When I will have my own website,
maybe I could be faster, but this is not the case for now... I'm
very busy...

The reason I replied to you is because I had to clarify my
position in all this story. Yes, i was very inside, but this was
the past. My present is here, not there, so I'm really not
interested in being involved in a fraud, 'cause my aim was not
to spread a fraud, but an investigation, that unfortunately I
couldn't conclude...

I'm not part of the Reed's team at all, and is not in my
personal interest to help him at all in spreading his case. In
any case, it could be my interest to continue the research, and
that's it. I was not guilty in working with Jaime Maussan at
all, and I have also to clarify that, even if I don't work with
him any longer, he's still my friend, but he's in Mexico and I'm
here in Europe. That easy.

 >Your English is fine, Daniel - no problem at all. I would just
 >like a clear answer as to where you stand on this case and why
 >all of the investigators alleging to have thoroughly
 >investigated this case were not able to find out who 'Dr. Reed'
 >really was...its just that simple. How so many "real
 >researchers" were allegedly duped by Rutter is simply amazing.

 >Thanks for responding and you can contact me anytime you like. I
 >will always respond to your e-mail.

 >Regards,

 >Royce J. Myers III
 >UFOWATCHDOG.COM

The very same to you. I look forward to meet you sometime
somewhere.


Daniel Mu=F1oz






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 12

                       Louisiana MUFON In Baton Rouge?

From: Elaine Tassin <ETisHome@lawired.com>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 20:40:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:36:32 -0400
Subject: Louisiana MUFON In Baton Rouge?


I need info on Louisiana MUFON, please. Are they in Baton Rouge?
Years ago they were, but I was unable to participate in
activities, due to work-schedule conflicts.

Looking forward to hearing,


Thanks,

Elaine Tassin







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   May > May 12

               Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 19 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 20:48:36 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:39:14 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 19 - Balaskas


 >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:01:58 +0100
 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 19

<snip>

 >UFOs TURN UP IN OTTAWA AND TORONTO, CANADA

 >On Saturday, April 17, 2002, at 12:30 p.m., the male witness was
 >on his lunch break at his workplace near the intersection of
 >Montreal and St. Laurent Roads in Ottawa, the capital of Canada,
 >when he spotted a strange object approaching.

 >"I was on my lunch break at 12:30 p.m.," he reported, "I looked
 >up to see what looked like a small airplane coming from the
 >northeast. As it got closer, I noticed that it was oval-shaped
 >and changing colour from black to silver. It was rolling or
 >rocking side to side as it changed colour. It was travelling
 >about 300 feet (90 meters) high as it flew behind a cloud and
 >disappeared." (Many thanks to Brian Vike for this report.)

Did the witness mean Wednesday, April 17 (Saturdays are usually
days off for many working people)? Rockcliffe Flying Club and
the National Aviation Museum (at the site of Canadian Forces
Base Ottawa North) are located less than 2 miles away in the
same direction the witness saw this UFO. The sighting may have
been connected to scheduled outdoor activities at the museum by
school children, which included a film of the AVRO Arrow (of
which the museum has many parts, including the cockpit/nose cone
section, landing gear, an Iroquois engine and even two complete
wings on display). Did the witness contact the nearby airport or
museum? Since this UFO sighting was from a highly populated area
of Ottawa, there should be many other witnesses. Did Brian
manage to get a reply from the witness on his request for
further details?

 >On Friday, April 26, 2002, "the time was around 6:45 a.m., and I
 >was coming to work in a taxi," the witness reported, "I work in
 >the Dufferin and Steeles area of Toronto," which is Canada's
 >largest city. "As we were coming to--I believe the park's name
 >is--G. Ross Lord Park on Dufferin, I was looking out the (taxi)
 >window when I noticed it. It was just sitting in the clouds and
 >not moving--the grey-looking object."

 >"I knew it wasn't an airplane or a weather balloon and, to be
 >honest, I wasn't sure what it was. I just kept looking at it,
 >hoping to see it move. But it didn't. It looked like grey metal,
 >and it looked like it might have been square in shape. But it
 >was hard to tell in the clouds. It didn't move--it just sat
 >there. I lost sight of it when I turned my head for a second.
 >When I turned back, it was gone." (Many thanks to Sue Darroch of
 >Para- Researchers of Ontario for this report.)

<snip>

Two large facilities, University Toronto Institute for Aerospace
Studies (which did it own study into UFOs back in the late
1960s) and Environment Canada - where I once worked as a
climatologist - are both located at Dufferin Street and Steeles
Avenue. Large dark coloured weather balloons are launched by
meteorologists there daily, usually early in the morning and
again later early in the evening.

If the weather balloon was rising slowly through the base of a
thin cloud layer, its shape would not be that well defined and
it would seem to vanish a second later once it entered thicker
clouds.

Did the witness or Para-Researchers of Ontario contact UTIAS or
the Canadian meteorology headquarters at the location of this
UFO sighting to see if it could have been a weather balloon?


Nick Balaskas







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                  Re: 'X-Files' Ends - Maccabee - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 04:10:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:43:08 -0400
Subject: Re: 'X-Files' Ends - Maccabee - Goldstein


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 00:06:27 -0400
 >Subject: Re: 'X-Files' Ends

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:34:01 +0200
 >>Subject: 'X-Files' Ends

 >>Source: AP, May 8, 2002.

 >>Stig

 >>***

 >>Strange, Wonderful 'X-Files' Ends

 >>Story Filed: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:18 PM EDT

 >**

 >>LOS ANGELES (AP) - C'mon over here and let us plant a big
 >f>arewell kiss on dark, droll, gory, sexy, devious, paranoid,
 >>sly, subversive, baffling, marvelous you - 'The X-Files'.

 >>The Fox drama about extraterrestrials, freakish terrestrial
 >>villains and the FBI agents driven to pursue them is ending its
 >>nine-year run, secure in its reputation as a television classic.

 >>Chris Carter, its creator, dared to take the most orthodox of
 >>genres, the cop show, and transform it into a convention-
 >>busting, one-of-a-kind vehicle for thrilling and intelligent
 >>storytelling.

 >>'The Truth', the two-hour finale, airs 8-10 p.m. EDT Sunday, May
 >>19. David Duchovny returns as Fox Mulder, who faces a murder
 >>charge and military tribunal. Gillian Anderson co-stars as Dana
 >>Scully.

 >It's amusing... or is it... that the real reason X-Files took
 >off, namely actual UFO sightings and X-Files gave voice to the
 >frustration witnesses feel... is not mentioned in this weepy
 >paen to the show in its waning days..

 >Too bad I couldn't sell my UFO-FBI book to as few as 1/100 or
 >even as little as 1/1000 of the people who watched the show.

 >The failure of the media to connect the show with reality is
 >another example of the 'self-cover-up'. This is a subject no one
 >really wants to know is real... because if it is....

 >_If_ it is......

 >Oy vey!

 >It is.....

Hi Bruce

It is.

Let's play what if.

If the government knew _it is_ but kept it from the people
because it felt that the people could not handle that they are
not controlling things but _it _ is controlling the situation.
Oy vey! _It_is_. And _it_is_ meshugganah!

Picture millions of people standing on the mall facing the
capitol, shouting out _it_is_ and firing the government because
they won't tell us the truth of what _it_ really is. Then we
would find out the shocking truth ourselves. We will create a
new government to protect us from the _truth of it_. But
_it_is_.

Bruce, what if you checked the cost of running banner ads for
your book on the X-Files websites? There are also other ways to
target them. Has the FBI put your book on its website as
recommended reading? Do they take banner ads? <g>:-) How about
targeting space enthusiasts' websites? Conspiracy theory
websites? Police websites? An ad in Popular Science magazine?
Listings with conspiracy theory booksellers? What the hell. In
the regular bookstores they squeeze our books between conspiracy
and channeling.


L'chaim,

Josh









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               Re: Cordell Hull And The "Creatures" - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:49:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:51:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Cordell Hull And The "Creatures" - Maccabee


 >From: William E. Jones <jonesw@battelle.org>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:32:26 -0400
 >Subject: Cordell Hull And The "Creatures"

 >This article appeared in the recent issue of the Center for UFO
 >Studies' publication, the International UFO Reporter. So far I
 >have seen no response to it on the Internet. Since our purpose
 >in publishing this information was to solicit help in finding
 >confirming evidence for the story, I am releasing it to the
 >readers of UFO UpDates. Confirmation most likely will be found
 >in the letters and diaries of the friends and colleagues of Mr.
 >Cordell Hull. Hopefully someone with knowledge of pre-World War
 >diplomacy will pick up on this and have ideas for further
 >research.

Looks like a tremendous investigation already.

Perhaps a search of records of some military medical service
(Army) would turn up reference to pickling strange bodies in
formaldehyde.

There might be military records of transport of some strange
object, etc.

Wonder if there are records of receiving and shipping at the
Capitol in that time frame?







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                 Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 00:03:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:54:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? -


 >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:26:07 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 01:37:42 -0500

<snip>

 >>No matter how much analysis is conducted or by whom there is no
 >>way to _prove_ an image is either genuine or a hoax/fake. The
 >>best we can achieve is opinion based on analyses conducted by
 >>others whether they are "photographic experts" or otherwise.
 >>Whether these opinions are accepted or rejected depends largely
 >>on each person's opinion of the "expert's" qualifications to
 >>render an accurate analysis. So, ultimately, it all boils down
 >>to opinion.

 >If that's true, then there's very little "hard evidence" for
 >anything and much of established science boils down to a matter
 >of opinion. For instance, I'd consider fossils as (literally)
 >hard evidence supporting evolutionary theory, but fossils _can_
 >be faked, as was proven by the Piltdown Man hoax. Taking their
 >cue from that incident, creationists deride the fossils of the
 >first bird-like reptile, Archaeopterix, as the "Piltdown
 >Chicken." Photographs are hard evidence even if in general they
 >can be faked, just as fossils can be.

Amy has the jist of it. It took me many years to realize it, but
the bottom line is this: a photo a UFO does not make.

Instead, a photo is 'merely' an aid to the recollection of the
witness.....

The same probably goes for video, but it is harder to
fake.

The 1997 Mexico City video is a prime case in point: the
videographer was never discovered and 'fingerprints of a hoax'
were discovered in the video after many hours of analysis by
Jeff Sainio and myself.








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                  'After Half A Century It's RIP For UFOs'

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 10:28:31 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:13:18 -0400
Subject: 'After Half A Century It's RIP For UFOs'


Source: The Daily Nation (Kenya)

http://www.nationaudio.com/News/DailyNation/Today/Comment/LettLondon40.html

Stig

***

Letter from London
Sunday, May 12, 2002

After half a century, it's RIP for the UFOs

By GERRY LOUGHRAN

**

There is a very popular play here called Peter Pan wherein
Tinkerbell from Fairyland announces she is dying because people
don't believe in her any more. The children in the audience then
clap like mad and call out, "We believe in fairies, we believe
in fairies," and Tinkerbell's light grows bright again and she
stops dying forthwith.

If the modern version of Tinkerbell from Fairyland is ET the
Extraterrestrial, all the clapping and believing in the world
will not keep the little fellow alive. It's official: We don't
believe in aliens any more.

The Ministry of Defence Directorate of Intelligence has declared
that it no longer wishes to be sent any reports of UFOs
(Unidentified Flying Objects) and, perhaps more pertinently, the
enthusiasts of the British Flying Saucer Bureau announced they
are suspending activities because sightings have dried up.
"Perhaps", said a spokesman wanly, "our alien visitors have
completed their survey of earth".


UFOs were a national fixation


These terse announcements tucked away inside a few newspapers in
no way reflect the obsessional nature of the events they refer
to. For half a century, UFOs were a national fixation, provoking
near hysteria in the 1950s and prompting top-secret
investigations by the government, a fact that was always denied.

Many of the reports, at a time of Cold War tension with the
Soviet Union, were convincing and scary. In 1952, Air Commodore
Michael Swinney was an instructor at the RAF Central Flying
School. During a Meteor flight with a trainee, he said, "We
broke through cloud and I saw three circular white discs in
front of me, two on a level keel and one slightly canted. We
continued climbing until they took on the aspect of a flat
plate."

"I felt we were looking at something we should not be seeing and
I was told on landing I looked as if I had seen a ghost."

Swinney's student, Lt. Commander David Croft of the Royal Navy,
confirmed the story. "An Air Ministry officer told us the
objects had been picked up on radar and had a ground speed of
600 mph. Fighter planes were scrambled but saw nothing.

"I don't know what I saw but I saw something. I don't think
there's any way they could have been terrestrial but I have no
idea if other beings are around."

In August 1950 at RAF Farnborough, Stan Hubbard, an experienced
test pilot, was walking across the airfield when he heard a
humming, hissing sound. "I turned round and saw a strange object
approaching. It looked like an edge-on view of a sports discus.
It was pearly grey and appeared to be crackling and sparking and
gave the impression there was something moving on it."

A month later, Hubbard and five other officers had a similar
weird sighting from the watch-tower at Farnborough.

The Air Ministry was not convinced and concluded that in the
first sighting, Hubbard "was either a victim of an optical
illusion or observed some normal aircraft and deceived himself
as to its shape and speed." As to the second sighting, the
Ministry said, "We conclude that the officers saw some quite
normal aircraft at extreme range and were led by the previous
report to believe it to be something abnormal, an interesting
example of one report inducing another."

"Absolute rubbish," said Hubbard last week. "My engineering
experience convinced me it was not of this earth. We do not have
the technology capable of that sort of performance."

This was a time when the threat of atomic war with the Soviet
Union hung over the world. Whitehall did indeed fear an alien
invasion but not from space, from Eastern Europe. In an action
it has always denied until records were found recently, the
Ministry of Defence in August 1950 set up the


Flying Saucer Working Party


Flying Saucer Working Party (many UFOs seemed to look like
flaying saucers) to sift through the many claimed sightings.

It is clear now why it was all kept secret. For the government
to announce that people were seeing things and it did not know
what they were would have resulted in a loss of confidence in
the armed forces at the peak of the Cold War. And if the UFOs
did turn out to be Soviet weapons, to announce they had been
seen would reveal the state of Britain's radar and air defences.

So it was mum all round as thousands of reports, often feeding
off each other, were meticulously investigated. The Working
Party itself was abandoned after just 12 months but military
intelligence continued to take an unacknowledged interest in UFO
reports for 50 years.

Many of the early sightings were a product of the primitive
radar system of the time, experts have since concluded, while
others were optical illusions caused by atmospheric conditions.

Researchers believe that if there was a cover-up it was a cover-
  up of ignorance. Although some things never were explained,
official files turned up no trace of a single alien encounter.

Which is rather a pity because I for one would have liked to
know more about the experience of an elderly lady from
Kensington who said she was visited by a Martian at night. He
was seven feet tall and covered in red hair. He said he had been
sent to examine her water

<snip>

**

Copyright =A92002, Nation Media Group Ltd. All rights reserved.





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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 03:30:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:15:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert


 >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:26:07 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 01:37:42 -0500

 ><snip>

 >>No matter how much analysis is conducted or by whom there is no
 >>way to _prove_ an image is either genuine or a hoax/fake. The
 >>best we can achieve is opinion based on analyses conducted by
 >>others whether they are "photographic experts" or otherwise.
 >>Whether these opinions are accepted or rejected depends largely
 >>on each person's opinion of the "expert's" qualifications to
 >>render an accurate analysis. So, ultimately, it all boils down
 >>to opinion.

 >If that's true, then there's very little "hard evidence" for
 >anything and much of established science boils down to a matter
 >of opinion. For instance, I'd consider fossils as (literally)
 >hard evidence supporting evolutionary theory, but fossils _can_
 >be faked, as was proven by the Piltdown Man hoax. Taking their
 >cue from that incident, creationists deride the fossils of the
 >first bird-like reptile, Archaeopterix, as the "Piltdown
 >Chicken." Photographs are hard evidence even if in general they
 >can be faked, just as fossils can be.

In your opinion. ;>

Some people may consider photographs of UFO's as "hard evidence"
while others may not. It all depends on what each individual
considers as "evidence" as well as "hard evidence". Let's face
it, there are no clear guidelines or criteria for establishing
whether or not a photograph of an alleged UFO is genuine or
fake. At best all we have are the analyses (opinions) of those
we trust to tell us what they think a photograph is or is not
based on their background and abilities in the art of
photoanalysis.

There are no machines or computers that we can put these
photographs through to determine, beyond doubt, which images are
real and which are not. I wish such a machine existed but it
does not.

So the bottom line is there is no way to prove a photograph is
genuine or fake and no way to prove an image is of a genuine UFO
or a hoax. If there were a way to prove these contentions, this
List would have solved these mysteries long ago.


A. Hebert







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              NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying Objects

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:42:59 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:18:19 -0400
Subject: NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying Objects


I don't know if this one is new to the List, as it was published
before I re-joined after a prolonged period of entirely diffent
activities. According to NASA's information, the page was
revised on March 5, 2002.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/facts/HTML/FS-015-HQ.html

Stig

***

FS-2000-01-015-HQ

**

The US Government and Unidentified Flying Objects

**

No branch of the United States Government is currently involved
with or responsible for investigations into the possibility of
advanced alien civilizations on other planets or for
investigating Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO's). The US Air
Force (USAF) and the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration (NASA) have had intermittent, independent
investigations of the possibility of alien life on other
planets; however, none of these has produced factual evidence
that life exists on other planets, nor that UFO's are related to
aliens. From 1947 to 1969, the Air Force investigated UFO's;
then in 1977, NASA was asked to examine the possibility of
resuming UFO investigations. After studying all of the facts
available, it was determined that nothing would be gained by
further investigation, since there was an absence of tangible
evidence.

In October 1992, NASA was directed by Congress to begin a
detailed search for artificial radio signals from other
civilizations under the NASA Towards Other Planetary Systems
(TOPS)/High Resolution Microwave Survey (HRMS) program (also
known as the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence project).
Congress directed NASA to end this project in October 1993,
citing pressures on the US Federal budget. The HRMS did not
detect any confirmed signal before it was stopped. However,
similar work continued through efforts of private groups and
through academic institutions. The Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence Institute (SETI Institute) in Mountain View, CA,
effectively replaced the Government project, borrowing the
signal processing system from NASA. The SETI Institute is a
nonprofit corporation conducting research in a number of fields
including all science and technology aspects of astronomy and
planetary sciences, chemical evolution, the origin of life,
biological evolution, and cultural evolution.

During several space missions, NASA astronauts have reported
phenomena not immediately explainable; however, in every
instance NASA determined that the observations could not be
termed "abnormal" in the space environment. The 1947 to 1969
USAF investigations studied UFO's under Project Blue Book. The
project, headquartered at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio,
was terminated December 17, 1969. Of the total of 12,618
sightings reported to Project Blue Book, 701 remain
"unidentified."

The decision to discontinue UFO investigations was based on an
evaluation of a report prepared by the University of Colorado
entitled, "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects;" a
review of the University of Colorado's report by the National
Academy of Sciences; previous UFO studies; and Air Force
experience investigating UFO reports during the 1940's, '50's
and '60's. As a result of experience, investigations, and
studies since 1948, the conclusions of Project Blue Book were:
(1) no UFO reported, investigated, and evaluated by the Air
Force was ever a threat to our national security; (2) there was
no evidence submitted to, or discovered by, the Air Force that
sightings categorized as "unidentified" represented
technological developments or principles beyond the range of
modern scientific knowledge; and (3) there was no evidence
indicating that sightings categorized as "unidentified" were
extraterrestrial vehicles.

With the termination of Project Blue Book, the USAF regulation
establishing and controlling the program for investigating and
analyzing UFO's was rescinded. Documentation regarding the
former Project Blue Book investigation was permanently
transferred to the Modern Military Branch, National Archives and
Records Service, in Washington, DC 20408, and is available for
public review and analysis.

Since the termination of Project Blue Book, nothing has occurred
that would support a resumption of UFO investigations by the
U.S. government.

Since neither NASA nor the Air Force is engaged in day-to-day
UFO research, neither one reviews UFO-related articles intended
for publication, evaluates UFO-type spacecraft drawings, or
accepts accounts of UFO sightings or applications for employment
in the field of aerial phenomena investigation.


UFO Points of Contact


For further information on the Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence, please contact the SETI Institute, 2035 Landings
Drive, Mountain View, CA 94043, (650) 961-6633.

News media requiring Project Blue Book files should contact the
National Archives Public Affairs Office, (202) 501-5525. Public
queries should be addressed to the Project Blue Book archivist
at (202) 501-5385. For queries not related to Project Blue Book,
contact the National Archives receptionist at (202) 501- 5400.
Documentation is available from: Modern Military Branch,
National Archives and Records Service, Eighth Street and
Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20408.

The Air Force publication, "The Roswell Report: Fact vs. Fiction
in the New Mexico Desert," a lengthy document providing all of
the details available from the Air Force on the Roswell
incident, is available for $52 from the US Government Printing
Office, Superintendent of Documents, Mail Stop: SSOP,
Washington, DC 20402- 9328.

There are a number of universities and professional scientific
organizations that have considered UFO phenomena during periodic
meetings and seminars. A list of private organizations
interested in aerial phenomena may be found in Gale's
Encyclopedia of Associations.

**

Responsible NASA Official: Mary F. Bell - Comments
Web Page Curator: SAIC Information Services

Revised: March 5, 2002






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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 10:58:07 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:20:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bowden


 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >I would like a clearer definition of the role that photographic
 >evidence plays in establishing the reality of the presence of
 >UFOs on our world. And let's leave aside any consideration of
 >who is building and piloting these craft or where they may be
 >from. Let's just speak of the photographs as evidence that real
 >and solid, unknown, objects are circumnavigating our skies.

 >Any takers?

Hi John,

Bear with me on this.

I know you asked to leave aside who's piloting these things but
as you well know one strong belief is that the UFO is from
another World.

This then creates a link between the UFO and the alien
abductors.

Over the years I have asked various UFO researchers:

"Why is it there is a ton of photographic/video/film and even
radar evidence of unexplained objects in the skies but none of
the aliens themselves?"

In this day and age of CCTV, motion detector alarm systems (you
can get from your local Tandy's) right down to your own cat and
dog, nothings detected.

The answer I get is:

"The aliens obviously have a superior technology that allows them
to move undetected and unseen"

If these people are right then it's obvious the UFO is not
related or they'd employ the same technology. After all what's
the point in activating your stealth belts if the ship you came
in on shows up like Battlestar Galactica on the defence grid!

If these people are wrong... well that opens a whole new can of
worms.

Photographic evidence is important, it adds to the pot but until
we can catch one all we can do is look and (camera ready)
record.

I know the UFO is a real thing, I've seen two in my time.

Lets get some answers.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition/


Dave Bowden







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             Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - van Hyum

From: Peter van Hyum <pvanhyum@bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 17:22:57 +0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:25:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - van Hyum


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:11:53 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Peter van Hyum <pvanhyum@bigpond.net.au>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:49:33 +0800


<snip>

 >>I also have a grave concern that as a species we are not yet
 >>ready to know the TRUTH.

 >How, then, is it that the military and government personnel who
 >have known the truth for years, are ready to know the truth?

 >Are they something different than human, made of sterner stuff?


Hi Eleanor, List,

I support your latter proposition... military personnel _are_
made of sterner stuff, not necessarily by birth or breeding, but
by training. Government personnel, that is, personnel involved
at the leading edge are generally para military trained anyway
(FBI, CIA etc).

I am willing to wager that if you had access to military
personnel files you might also find a few of those robust folk
also have issues with some of their experiences.

I am not knocking the individual who can handle the truth, just
the effect a mass enlightening might have. I don't know about
you, but I don't know many individuals who like not being 'in
apparent control' of their environment.


Regards

Peter







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                     Re: Fire The Government - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:43:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:27:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Fire The Government - Lehmberg


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:01:03 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:05:43 -0500
 >>Subject: Fire The Government

 >>There is a perfectly legal cure.....

 >>Fire The Government Petition

 >>Our government was set up 226 years ago for an illiterate
 >>population that no longer exists. We can wrest control from the
 >>government only if we can set aside our petty differences and
 >>work as a team.

 >Why is it implicitly assumed here that all differences within a
 >society are merely "petty"? Oh, well....

...forgetting that government very likely _is_ created for
people that (would?) no longer exist (if they had choices), an
assessment regarding the pettiness of 'most' social differences
is an odds _on_ favorite. Human beings have manufactured
undeniably specious reasons to hate one another over the years,
all of it a dodge for gainful individuals to maintain privileged
positions, influence, control, and power. I think the metaphor
dovetails neatly into our ufological society as well, 90% crap,
5% sociopathic, and only 1 percent actualized.

 >>If we can get a majority of the people to sign this ballot we
 >>will have legal authority to remove this criminal organization
 >>from power.

 >The above is so out to lunch that one hesitates to acknowledge
 >it, for fear of making it look like something passing for
 >rational opinion.

...But nothing personal, Mr. Scovel... [g].

At the risk of Mr. Scovel taking one across his literary chin
and not speaking out twice because he's been whacked once, let
me remind him that this is just Mr. Clark's _opinion_ and
everyone has one of _those_ ,too. The points Mr. Scovel raised:
Efficacy of government, inability to cooperate, and the
pettiness found in reasons precipitating that lack of
cooperation... were good points in a quality post.

His spirit is much appreciated. The architects of our ignorance
(whoever or whatever they are) are employers of the points he
raises, and are not so easily dismissed by Mr. Clark. It is
completely correct that 'they' are the 'employees' not the
'employers'. It is completely correct that 'they' do properly
subordinate themselves to us as public servants. It is
completely correct that freedom loving individuals should look
for ways to cooperate, and avoid looking for reasons to do the
inverse. Mr. Clark should step off, a little. Scovel was 'on' in
this post much more than he was 'off'.

It's a real testament to the times, actually, that a suggestion
such as his is even raised. It is not unearned even if it is
unworkable. Consider a second suggestion. A grassroots civil
action, vis a vis a person successful in similar actions, Dan
Sheehan, guiltily associated of late, but with a track record of
success, regardless (Watergate, Silkwood, Iran/Contra... Dr.
John Mack keeping his job at Harvard after taking 'abduction'
seriously...), would go further in the direction he'd want to, I
think. ...Civil disobedience, aggressive non-violence, right to
petition. Anything Malcolm X, MLK, or Gandhi would have done.

...but I like his spirit. "You're fired..." Were it that easy...
And maybe it is. If full disclosure did put the controllers out
of control, in effect firing them, maybe that's the -real-
  problem, the genesis of a lack in cooperation, and a
justification for not moving one step forward, ufologically, in
50 years. ...that 'they' _can_ be fired after all...

 >But I would like to take this opportunity to
 >urge Listfolk to participate in the political lives of their
 >respective democracies. VOTE, people.

Yes vote... take your choice between the two offered arms of the
same officiously corrupt beast, and pick one. Vote, by all
means, for one or the other corporate drone, political patsy, or
ill made man. Continue the illusion that the individual still
has some measure of control in a polite society, and that their
choices really mean anything at all. Continue to pretend that
our government has the individual's best interest at heart...

 >In a democracy you get the
 >kind of government you deserve.

You get the government you demand. Very, Very few get what they
deserve.

 >If you don't happen to like the
 >people currently in power, you have a free voice and a vote. Use
 >them to put somebody better in power.

Just like what you read in your Weekly Reader 40 years ago!
Dreams are made real! Your votes count (unless you vote for the
wrong guy, like in the last Presidential election).

 >I know this isn't as thrilling an option as the barstool
 >solution of firing the gummint, but it's an infinitely more
 >doable, realistic, and grown-up one.

Oh, it could be that one is as valueless as the other. Truly,
Mr. Scovel's discomfort and expression of it is well taken and
understood by _this_ reader, and is more appealing than quick
calls on "rationality" or juvenile calls to support a sick civic
system getting more tyrannical and authoritarian with each
passing day. Good post (even _if_ hot-headed and unworkable) Mr.
Skovel, and welcome to the List.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.





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                 Re: Louisiana MUFON In Baton Rouge? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 18:28:37 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 01:59:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Louisiana MUFON In Baton Rouge? - Hall


 >From: Elaine Tassin <ETisHome@lawired.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 20:40:38 -0500
 >Subject: Louisiana MUFON In Baton Rouge?

 >I need info on Louisiana MUFON, please. Are they in Baton Rouge?
 >Years ago they were, but I was unable to participate in
 >activities, due to work-schedule conflicts.

 >Looking forward to hearing,

 >Thanks,

 >Elaine Tassin

Elaine, see www.mufon.com/louisiana.html


- Dick Hall








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                         Re: New To The List - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 12:06:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 02:03:50 -0400
Subject: Re: New To The List - Hatch


 > From: LaDonna <harmony@app-net.com>
 > To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 > Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:16:09 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 > Subject: New To The List

 > Hello,

 > I'm new to the List, and although I have no credentials to
 > entitle me to debate issues, I do want to make a comment.

 > The sort of fraudulent UFO claims, such as the Reed case, always
 > are the most popular with the press. These are what cause so
 > many people reluctance in publicly relating what they have seen.
 > I've been interested in UFOs since the mid-60's when I saw the
 > news report of Betty and Barney Hill's incident. I was just a
 > kid, and the interest has carried over.

 > Without going into particulars of what I have seen that convince
 > me there are strange things in the sky, I just want to share
 > that over the years, many people in my little town have told me
 > about things they have seen. They tell me because everyone knows
 > I'm interested, but they don't tell other people for fear of
 > ridicule.

 > In any event, I am a teacher in a small school. Of the 22
 > teachers there, almost half of them have related personal
 > stories to me. It took some of them several years to decide to
 > share these things. The more questions I ask, the more convinced
 > I become that too many people see things for the experience to
 > be completely fictional. In addition, I have talked to former
 > students who have gone into the military.

 > One told me he could tell me what he knew, but he'd have to
 > shoot me if he did. Another told me of visiting his brother at
 > an air base and being warned that the signs reading "no
 > admittance: use of deadly for authorized" meant exactly what it
 > said.

 > I have no idea why credible reports by sane, honest, everyday
 > people are given such bad press. I do know that there are far
 > more credible sightings that go unreported by credible witnesses
 > as a result. Any suggestions about how simply interested persons
 > like myself can get good people to come forward?

 > LA in WV

Hello LA:

This may not help much, but I would stress the need to record
all the details of any such sightings while the memories are
still fresh.

By this, I mean dates, time of day, and of course the place, as
exactly and unambiguously as possible.  The apparent size and
shape of object is vital. If some lights are seen only, then
their number, position, color, direction and elevation over
horizon etc etc. Did the object maneuver, turn, fly straight and
level, hover, stop, start .. and how did it go away? Others may
well will suggest other things to note.

This should be written down and kept in a safe place. Then, if
at some later date a witness decides to come forward in any
venue, the facts will be at hand.

All too often, somebody will come up with a report, long after
the fact, that begins:

" It was summertime, early 1950s, while I was driving from
Denver to Phoenix.. "

I cannot even catalog such a case.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









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               Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bott

From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 07:23:22 +1200 (NZST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 02:05:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bott



Greetings List People

With regard to the many discussions on whether Photographs and
videos are evidence of that UFO,s are real, ta least years ago I
heard a statement regarding photographs of UFO's which implied
that:

    "A photograph is only as good as the credibility of the
        Photographer"

For this reason one must take photographs with some suspicion
and check out the person whom has taken the photograph !!


Regards

Murray Bott

--
Email : murrayb@win.co.nz
Voice : 64-9-6345285
Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand







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               Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:08:22 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 02:09:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 03:30:16 -0500

 >>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:26:07 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<snip>

 >Some people may consider photographs of UFO's as "hard evidence"
 >while others may not. It all depends on what each individual
 >considers as "evidence" as well as "hard evidence". Let's face
 >it, there are no clear guidelines or criteria for establishing
 >whether or not a photograph of an alleged UFO is genuine or
 >fake. At best all we have are the analyses (opinions) of those
 >we trust to tell us what they think a photograph is or is not
 >based on their background and abilities in the art of
 >photoanalysis.

 >There are no machines or computers that we can put these
 >photographs through to determine, beyond doubt, which images are
 >real and which are not. I wish such a machine existed but it
 >does not.

 >So the bottom line is there is no way to prove a photograph is
 >genuine or fake and no way to prove an image is of a genuine UFO
 >or a hoax. If there were a way to prove these contentions, this
 >List would have solved these mysteries long ago.


Amy,

The fallacy of your argument is that science or scientific
method never 'proves' anything. All conclusions are tentative
and subject to constant review. But if you are seriously arguing
that anyone's opinion is equally valid with that of anyone else,
I respectfully but strongly disagree.

When it comes to photoanalysis, Bruce Maccabee's opinon [better,
his carefully reported analyses] are certainly worth a lot more
than Joe Blow off the street. The same applies to those of us
who have spent decades carefully analyzing data versus people
who like to spout opinions from their armchairs.


- Dick Hall








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              Re: Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech? -

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 18:28:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 02:46:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech? -

 > From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 > To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 > Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 22:18:24 +0200
 > Subject: Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech?

 > Did Roswell Debris Inspire Working, 'Antigravitational'
 > Technology?

 > Source: Wired News, May 11, 2002,

 > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,52432,00.html

 > Stig

 > ***

 > 'Lifters': An Idea in the Clouds
 > By Michelle Delio

 > 2:00 a.m. May 11, 2002 PDT

 > **

 > Antigravitational devices developed by a computer geek could
 > eventually change the world as we know it.

 > Or they may just blow a few holes into some barn roofs.

 > The devices are known as "lifters." When charged with a small
 > amount of electrical power, they levitate, apparently able to
 > resist Earth's gravitational forces.

<snip>

This sounds like the successful experiment by Townsend Brown, I
believe it was in the 1950s, in which he used a pair of
metallized umbrellas and charged the pair of umbrellas as a
capacitor, one umbrella being positive, the other negative. The
film of his success has been shown on educational TV once in a
rare while.

It's been conjectured that if an electrically-super-strong
dielectric layer (insulating layer between charged plates) were
developed, and stacked plates were used to multiply the effect,
and megavolts, as from a Tesla Coil could be applied and
maintained between plate sets, a true Earthling "electrostatic
helicopter" could be built, and could fly just as well outside
the atmosphere as inside it.

Control has been proposed by charging separate "pizza slice"
plate segments, rather than a simple disk, which would produce
thrust but be uncontrollable. Pizza slice segments also improve
reliability, as if the dielectric (insulating layer) failed with
one pizza slice, the others could make up for the loss of lift
of the faulty segment.

Apparently, all capacitors of stacked flat plate design (as
opposed to circular wrapping of the plates) exhibit microscopic
amounts of thrust. If I remember correctly, the thrust is from
the negative towards the positive plate.

Perhaps we have the chemical technology to develop the super
dielectric (insulating layer) now. That would be exciting, as
it would exonerate UFO researchers rather quickly.

Eleanor White







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                          Re: SDI 05-04-02 - Kelly

From: Christopher Kelly <tophar@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:00:02 +1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:24:59 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 05-04-02 - Kelly


 >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:21:44 -0700
 >From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: SDI 05-04-02

 >>From: Christopher Kelly <tophar@iprimus.com.au>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:15:11 +1000
 >>Subject: SDI 05-04-02 - Reed

 ><snip>

 >Actually, "Reed" - his real name is John Bradley Rutter - has
 >not worked at a gas station to my knowledge. You would be
 >thinking of 'Dr. Harold Chacon' and Robert 'Raith' (aka Robert
 >Aria).

 >Chacon claimed to be a microbiologist that was involved in
 >completing DNA analyses on alien blood and tissue. Both Chacon
 >and Aria claimed, on national radio, that they had never met
 >until 1999. Well, 'Dr.' Cahcon isn't a doctor and the two worked
 >together at the same gas station for the last 5 years.


 >As for the resources behind this scam, the investigation is on-
 >going.


Hi Royce,

Thank you for clearing this up for me, you have done a great job
of uncovering the truth about this case. I heard on SDI
yesterday that a 'class action' was being considered against
these people.

I believe this would be a good thing as it would send a clear
message to any one else thinking about running such a scam and
what could be in-store for them. Really in many ways these
people are not all that much different to those Holy High
Rollers that fleece people of their money. Perhaps laws and
court cases dealing with the Holy High Rollers could be helpful
for any-one researching the class action. .

Anyway, reading about what you have uncovered Royce is starting
to be more interesting than the orginal stories.


Good Hunting,

Cheers Chris (Tophar)








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                              VeriChip Implants

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 01:09:20 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:28:13 -0400
Subject: VeriChip Implants


Hi all,

Over the past couple of day's I've been watching a little
segment on Sky news (UK) about experiments carried out by a
company based in Florida called Applied Digital Solutions
Incorporated. Volunteers have agreed to take part in testing
something they have developed called VeriChip.

VeriChip is quote:

"An implantable, 12mm by 2.1mm radio frequency device, VeriChip
is about the size of the point of a typical ballpoint pen. It
contains a unique verification number. Utilizing an external
scanner, radio frequency energy passes through the skin
energizing the dormant VeriChip, which then emits a radio
frequency signal containing the verification number. The number
is displayed by the scanner and transmitted to an FDA compliant
secure data storage site by authorized personnel via telephone
or Internet"

Sounds like a good idea you might say but listen to this, work is
already under way to develop a more controversial smaller
version.

This one contains all of the above plus satellite tracking.
According to the report ADSI are pitching the device to the
public as something that will allow you to always know where
your kids are.

Believe me it won't end there, before you know it they will
become so small that they can be injected at birth.

How's that for paranoia.

Alien implants? it's the humans you got to keep an eye on ;-)


Dave Bowden







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             Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 20:08:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:31:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Fleming


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 03:30:16 -0500

 >Some people may consider photographs of UFO's as "hard evidence"
 >while others may not.

Since photographs are created by physical processes as opposed
to mental processes, I don't know what else you can call them. I
don't think anyone would dispute that sometimes purported UFO
photos turn out to be hard evidence of a probable hoax or of the
planet Venus. Those that can't be assigned to such causes are
still hard evidence of _something_ that caused an image to
appear on a piece of film. That's not at all the same as
'proof', which photos are not - in my opinion, I hasten to add. :)







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                     CI: O5-12-02 City Square & Pyramid

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 18:55:18 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:33:39 -0400
Subject: CI: O5-12-02 City Square & Pyramid


O5-12-02
The Cydonian Imperative

The "City Square": Then and Now
by Mac Tonnies

See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html
for images and links.

In 1998, the Mars Global Surveyor took the following picture of
the features known collectively as the "City Square":

[image]

The new MGS image shows the City Square at roughly the same
resolution:

[image]

I was interested to note that the small white triangle visible
in the 1998 image (right side of image) is still present. This
is an especially small feature, constituting just a few pixels.
For this reason I was curious to see if it persisted under
different viewing conditions. Evidently it does, demonstrating
that its precise geometry and apparent hollow interior space are
not imaging artifacts.

[image]

Blow-up of the "Draftsman's Triangle" as seen in 1998.


Study of the City Square features suggest that they might have
once been located atop some sort of faceted terrace. The largest
formation in the group possesses a gross resemblance to Mound
"P" (see article above), tending to bear out the Mound Geometry
Hypothesis posited by Hoagland, Crater and McDaniel.
Circumstantial evidence indicates that the City Square may play
a pivotal role in the Cydonia complex's layout; unfortunately,
what's visible is highly eroded and not likely to vindicate
proponents of artificiality. However, details such as the
"Draftsman's Triangle" are promising in light of the high-
resolution camera to be sent to Mars in 2005. If the City Square
and/or any of the Mound features are artificial formations in
varying states of structural decay, better images will help us
make more informed determinations.

----

A Pyramid on Top of a Pyramid?

[image]

The Main City Pyramid (image released in May, 2002).

The new image of the Main City Pyramid reveals a massive five-
sided formation with dimensions not unlike those of the D&M
Pyramid and Mound "E" (see previous page). Many superficial (?)
lines are visible along the Pyramid's perimeter, several of them
enticingly geometric. Seen clearly in the 2002 image is a small,
semi-pyramidal formation protruding from near the Main City
Pyramid's apex.

[image]

Pyramidal (?) outcropping on the Main City Pyramid. See image
above.

"Reconstructed," the semi-pyramid might have once functioned as
a building in its own right (assuming artificiality).

-end-






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                        Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Andersen

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 23:26:13 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:36:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Andersen


 >>From: Daniel Munoz <notiovni@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Munoz
 >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 02:01:58 +0200>>

 >>What I had said before is that this case is real in certain
 >>elements, that exist and are present as samples in Mexico, like
 >>the plants and soil samples and so on, that revealed after being
 >>tested and analyzed by Dr. Zohar Gutierrez that there, in that
 >>place in the Cascade Mountains I was personally in (and that
 >>matches perfectly with the place shown in the infamous video
 >>Reed presents as evidence of the events in 1996), it happened
 >>something at an electromagnetic level that changed the
 >>composition of the organic elements of those samples, and that
 >>such energy, very strong by the way, left its fingerprints on
 >>the wood of the trees, found at a profundity of six to seven
 >>ayers below the one on the surface of the tree. I did by myself

Hello Daniel,

It is good to read your opinion on UFO UpDates. I have enjoyed
our personal meetings in the past in Los Angeles and also
Brisbane Australia and know that you do take your investigation
seriously.

I am not quite clear as to what evidence has really come about
in the soil analysis. What is exactly constitutes
"electromagnetic energy" - what instruments can be used to gauge
this - a compass, a gauss meter? Doesn't certain metals in the
environment reflect this? If it is sensitive enough, I believe
almost everything in life has some sort of electromagnetic
fingerprint. Let's face it, we are surrounded by "emf" every day
with just our hairdryer, razor or toaster oven.

I was very disheartened by Jaime's website (yes I know, you
don't have anything to do with this anymore) that claims, we are
"fabricating" a story about Rutter, Raith and Chacon. I saw
Harold just two weeks ago, behind the counter at the Chevron.

We talked, I joked about his "sunglasses" which he never takes
off any more and about his "road trips". All someone has to do
is call Mark Gardin at C&R Electric in West Seattle and ask if
Bobby or Harold work for him. He owns the Chevron station.

I found it personally very upsetting that the Mexico City press
is boo-hooing this as a "lovers quarrel" and that Royce Meyers
and myself and "making up" some wild stories to discredit John
Rutter/Reed/Ruttre. What gain would I have in all of this?

I am a UFO investigator and would love nothing more to provide a
"real" story. Should I provide a photo of me pumping gas in
front of these guys to prove a point? What ever happened to
"honest journalism"? Obviously, sensationalism and fabrication
seems to pay more $$$$.


Kathleen Andersen

MUFON
Seattle







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                             Glenn's 'Fireflies'

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 01:16:53 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:38:04 -0400
Subject: Glenn's 'Fireflies'


A small point but perhaps interesting. It seems John Glenn still
has problems with his 'fireflies' encounter during his first
flight into space.

See: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/space/

Second story "Mercury astronauts recall early space race" under
Space in the Orlando Sentinal.


Best,

Don Ledger







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                        First Review Of 'Signs' Movie

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:47:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:47:17 -0400
Subject: First Review Of 'Signs' Movie

http://www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=3D405

Exclusive First Review Of 'Signs' Movie - 09/05/2002

Swirled News is proud to present, as far as we are aware, the
very first review anywhere of the forthcoming Mel Gibson movie
'Signs', which involves crop circles. Through genuinely
staggering chance, some US correspondents of ours were able to
attend a preview screening. As for the film itself, the, er,
signs, perhaps predictably, are not good....

In an astonishing coincidence, some Swirled News correspondents
in Los Angeles recently found themselves being offered free
tickets for a preview screening of the movie 'Signs'. These
screenings are used to gauge public reaction to films a few
months before they are released, allowing time to perform edits
if deemed necessary.

Because of preview etiquette, we cannot reveal the names of
those whose comments follow below, suffice to say these are
GENUINE reviews by GENUINE correspondents.

Everything about these reviews screams that 'Signs' should be
treated with the utmost caution in terms of having anything
valuable to say about the real crop circle phenomenon,
confirming the fears aired recently on Swirled News (see April
headlines). Those fronting the PR or attaching great hopes to
the film might wish to pause for reflection on reading the
following reviews and comments=85 - Ed.

*
REVIEW

Through a typical surprise of synchronicity, this reviewer
stumbled upon the opportunity to attend a Hollywood screening of
the new Mel Gibson starrer 'Signs'. The first notable is that
this screening even occurred at all. Considering that the movie
is not scheduled for release in the US until August 2nd, a
"sneak preview" this early is unusual, and most likely an
indication that the producers and studio are nervous about it.
Also, it is particularly significant that they would preview it
in Los Angeles at all, generally considered a "no-no" for market
research screenings (the buying tastes of Los Angeles audiences
are generally not considered as representative of the "masses").
I can only think the filmmakers are wondering, "What do we have
on our hands?"

'Signs' is basically four movies rolled into one:

1) It's a Sci-Fi movie about evil ETs arriving. This part of the
movie is a very loosely organized adaptation of HG Wells's 'War
of the Worlds'. Evil ET's appear all over the world and threaten
to land and destroy everything.

2) It's a suspense thriller. In this part of the movie the cast
boards up their house, ending up trapped in the basement, in
order to stay safe and keep ET outside.

3) It's a comedy. There is constant 'comic relief' in the form
of jokes and gags, which somehow are supposed to fit in with the
above scenarios, but usually don't.

4) It's a thoughtful commentary on inner faith. Through all of
this, our star Mel Gibson (a former priest) grapples with the
bigger questions of what does this all mean, and why was his
wife unexpectedly killed six months earlier (known in Hollywood
parlance as "backstory").

On the whole, this is yet another example of Hollywood arrogance
and ignorance. The crop circles play a pivotal role, but only as
a visual prop. In the beginning we are allowed one overhead shot
of a formation on Mel Gibson's (maize) farm, followed by a few
clever lines of dialogue about nerds and conspiracies and bent-
but-not-broken stalks. From then on the movie stumbles along,
trying to unravel a simplistic plot about who makes them and why
they are here. We are shown, in the guise of television news,
that these formations are appearing all over the world
simultaneously. In the end we find out that the crop formations
are made essentially as landing locators for the ET's [wasn't
this also the plot of the TV series 'Dark Skies'? =96 Ed]. We
eventually see one, in the final scene - a seven feet tall green
evil-eyed alien who is apparently allergic to water. The end of
the film is astonishingly disappointing, with absolutely no sign
of epiphany or twist.

 From a crop circle perspective, with regard to the real
phenomenon, this movie could not be less significant. Its value
shall be in creating awareness of the phenomenon within a very
large and as yet unexposed segment of the global population.
Fortunately, the information contained in the film, what little
there is, does not misrepresent the phenomenon too badly. On the
other hand, the way in which crop circles are portrayed is
essentially so unoriginal as to be mundane. The notion that they
are the product of an evil source is so ineffectively portrayed
that it ends up, essentially, as a benign portrayal.

There have been rumblings about to what degree might the real
phenomenon be aware of, or interacting with, the making of this
movie. Having seen it, I can easily muse upon this question
further. What we have here is essentially a $60 million
commercial for the crop circles surrounded by a petty, mundane
and disappointing movie. Makes one wonder.


Further Comments By Those Who Accompanied Our Reviewer:

#1

I think this was the worst major movie I've ever seen. The only
thing that it has going for it is the few crop circles it shows.
Quite astonishingly, aside from the one maize circle they made,
it shows very few images on the TVs people are watching (there
are more in the trailer than in the film), which quickly
switches to static shots of lights over cities, a la
'Armageddon'.

The plot is illogical (my favourite is when Mel sees his first
alien in a neighbour's cupboard, and he doesn't tell anyone but
goes home and boards up his house), the dialogue is awful, the
acting is terrible (although Mel as Mel is always OK), and I
doubt that they intended as many laughs as they got. Also, I
take exception to "thoughtful," as in, "It's a thoughtful
commentary on inner faith." All the film showed was that Mel had
lost his, and it was just one of the many clich=E9d plot points
that all were pasted together - indeed, "with absolutely no sign
of epiphany."

#2

'Signs' was very disappointing. The premise is hollow and the
acting doesn't manage to add any depth. Although the female cop
(Cherry Jones) and Mel Gibson's brother (Joaquin Phoenix)
performed admirably, they couldn't make up for the fact that
Gibson's character was nowhere to be found. Far too many scenes
were far too long.

Although I was somewhat impressed with the level of suspense I
felt throughout the film while watching, the lack of payoff in
scene after scene left me very frustrated. The film's official
genre is "supernatural thriller." Uh... not! More like comedy
with some thrill and suspense thrown in, and some soul-searching
drama sprinkled on top. (Oh, and a little bit of sci-fi as an
afterthought.)

#3

This film was an insult to the courageous spirit of humanity.
Its 'heroes' are so completely helpless that they do not even
try. It does not even occur to them to meet the challenge. We
watch them hide. The best they can do with their intelligence is
to make tin foil 'dunce' hats to wear as they sit on the sofa,
while humanity is being destroyed.

The silliness of this story made me wonder why anyone even
bothered with it in the first place. Why celebrate fear and
helplessness? And why add to the already abundant fear and
insecurity surrounding what is unknown in life. Why connect crop
circles to this pathetic vision? And why use precious time and
energy to create 'entertainment' that demeans, insults and
maligns?

This film made me think about the responsibility of being
creative. In that way it had value for me. But I wonder if
audiences in general will be able to use this kind of input as a
springboard for productive energy, or if it will just add more
difficulty to an already difficult life. To my mind, this film
is more than a waste of time, it's a detriment to human growth
and integrity.

*

Roll on the UK crop circle movie, then! =96 Ed.

Copyright =A9 2001Swirled News & Southern Circular Research







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 13

                         Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 00:33:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:06:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Myers


 >From: Daniel Munoz <notiovni@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud - Munoz
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 02:01:58 +0200

 >>From: Royce J. Myers - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Reed UFO Fraud
 >>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:07:26 -0700

 >>First, let me be clear in saying that I am not trying to be
 >>inflammatory in this response. I will say that I respect Daniel
 >>Munoz for having the courage for at least trying to come forward
 >>- he apparently has a lot more courage than some of the other
 >>folks that have yet to directly comment on the story posted at
 >>my website. Frankly, I'm tired of getting half answers and
 >>people dodging questions. I would like a direct, straight answer
 >>regarding this case.

 >>Daniel, why are you still referring to him as "Reed"? We all
 >>know that isn't his real name. "Now I'm also writing on the
 >>subject, and yes, Reed's case will be within my interests and
 >>goals, 'cause its importance in the field, also thanks to your
 >>investigations." So, are you saying the case is a fraud or not?

 >I really thank you for your attitude and openess, Royce. And
 >also have to tell you I am not expressing half answers, but the
 >ones I have reached until now. I'm sorry if I decided to stop my
 >investigations about that case before finishing it, 'cause my
 >separation from the staff of Jaime Maussan. Is very simple: I am
 >not interested any longer in that case as I was formerly. I have
 >seen things that I did not like very much (not at a research
 >level, but at a personal level) with this man, that maybe you
 >are pretty sure is Rutter, but I'm not in that position, 'cause
 >I stopped the research, I repeat.

Daniel, thanks for being so kind and expressing thanks for my
"attitude and openess" - much appreciated. However, after what
I've heard this evening, we'll be skipping the facade of
kindness from this point out. I'll address that in a minute...

I'm not "pretty sure" - it is indeed John Bradley Rutter, after
all Dan Iaria admitted that this was the guy's real name on
Muassan's radio program. You were on the show and know this. But
the funny thing is that the excuse they used, the excuse I wrote
about in my investigative report, the excuse you supported on
the radio program, is the exact same ridiculous one they used
and it was so predicatable: For those on the list that don't
know about this you can visit:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/exposed80.html

and look under 'EXCUSES' where I wrote:

"Dr.Reed" supporters, fanatics, the faithful if you will - they
will undoubtedly start yelling conspiracy - that this story has
been slapped together to discredit "Dr.Reed's" alien encounter
in order to cover up the truth. Perhaps we'll now hear that
"Dr.Reed" was an alias for Rutter to protect him from the bad
guys."

This is exactly what Dan Iaria and the rest of the supporters in
this case are now claiming. And Daniel, you apparently are now
whistling a different tune when Maussan asked you about this
case and why you wrote to me on UFO Updates. I understand you
referred to me as, on this radio program, "an arrogant and
malicious man" and that you were "offended" by what I posted to
UFO UpDates. Funny, you never said any of that to me here. Why
is that?

And the best part is that you, Daniel Munoz, are now saying the
case is genuine after claiming you had no interest in it and
that things about the case bothered you. How very convenient for
all involved. So I guess you're back to being Jaime Muassan's
assistant once again? I understand Maussan was not at all happy
with your public statements about this case.

By the way, all those personal problems you said you had about
this case and Rutter, I know exactly what those personal
problems are about and why you don't want to disclose what made
you uncomfortable with this case. But I'll let you address that
in your next reply to this e-mail if you wish to do so.

So what did happen to your "separation from the staff of Jaime
Maussan"? Even though you couldn't be honest with me and those
on this list, at least I now know what side of the fence you're
truly on - even if it is the wrong side and even if you didn't
have the courage to stand up here and tell me.

 >Now, ask to the Ufo family,
 >make a poll about the Rutter's case, and maybe very few fellows
 >(even in this list) will answer to you positively in knowing it.
 >But if you say the Reed's case, certainly the most will be aware
 >who you are talking about. Don't flag too much this point,
 >'cause is not really important in how to refeer about it to.
 >Rutter, Reed; Aria, Raith... Not too much difference and not too
 >much importance, in my oppinion... We both know more than very
 >well who we are speaking about, don't we?

You've got to be kidding me... the aliases and the names are
indeed important because it demonstrates how much the people
involved in this were willing to lie. Rutter claimed to be
"Dr.Reed" - well, not only is he not Reed he's not even a real
doctor. Remember, he claimed to be a psychologist during the
time of his bogus alien encounter - how can you say none of this
is important? This makes all the difference in the world - your
statement regarding this critical issue sounds like you're
trying to minimize its importance. These people have lied -
period. The key to this case is that Rutter was not on the run
as he claimed to be, his house was never torn apart by "The Dark
Side" <Star Wars music in the background>, his identity was
never wiped clean by "The Dark Side", and therefore he never had
an encounter of any kind.

 From what I'm seeing with regard to the investigators involved
with Rutter so far, this is exactly what is wrong with UFOlogy
and why no one gives this field any credibility. I have never
seen an investigation that was so incompetently conducted in my
life. The so-called investigation has been nothing short of a
cover-up of the true facts surrounding this case. People like
Rutter, and people that support frauds like him - such as you
Munoz, Maussan and Iaria and others - are the reason that the
UFO filed is subjected to continued ridicule.

 >What I had said before is that this case is real in certain
 >elements, that exist and are present as samples in Mexico, like
 >the plants and soil samples and so on, that revealed after being
 >tested and analyzed by Dr. Zohar Gutierrez that there, in that
 >place in the Cascade Mountains I was personally in (and that
 >matches perfectly with the place shown in the infamous video
 >Reed presents as evidence of the events in 1996), it happened
 >something at an electromagnetic level that changed the
 >composition of the organic elements of those samples, and that
 >such energy, very strong by the way, left its fingerprints on
 >the wood of the trees, found at a profundity of six to seven
 >layers below the one on the surface of the tree. I did by myself
 >the collection of the samples, not being suggested by Reed or
 >anyone else. I just started to collect what I knew could give
 >out some results, if any...

I'm not buying any of it, especialy in light of your recent
actions, Daniel. How can you get samples from something that is
a fraud to begin with? Did Santa Clause leave them for you to
collect? Perhaps the Tooth Fairy was in that neck of the
woods...?

 >That's it. I can't say 100% this is
 >a fraud, only because the things you have found, because I found
 >those things that speak very clearly about something Reed never
 >said to me, but it was found. Or do you think he and his team
 >seed the radiation Beta Type 6 years ago, in order somebody
 >could reach that place to find it without saying them nothing?
 >Or well, do you think they or himself alone were able to affect
 >dramatically the branches of the trees in that area, in a way
 >that their growing and their orientation changed (by almost
 >bending'em) very differently just in those trees around the
 >alleged place of the events, in deep contrast with the trees
 >surrounding the area? Or about the growing of a species of big
 >mushrooms that are present in the trees, excepting in those
 >ones, too? If this is possible and demonstrable, please let me
 >know it, 'cause I am very ignorant on that matter...

All of the alleged scientific findings in this case to this
point have been absurd. Why? Because there haven't been any. I
ask again: Where are the lab reports? Where's the evidence? Why
wasn't this alleged evidence reported to the public to begin
with? I'm getting the feeling that this is just more of the same
low-grade theatrics used in this scam from day one. Remember now
Daniel, Rutter has allegedly scammed all of you from day
one...but after this radio program you appeared on this past
Sunday - it appears to me that you, Iaria and Maussan are all
behind this fraud 100% now and will continue to support it.

 >Those are the reasons because I can't say 100% this case is a
 >fraud. I can tell yes, there are some lies or ellucubrations
 >around for sure, but in the case of the samples, no one told me
 >what to do or what to find or to look for, but an engineer in
 >Mexico. No one from Reed's staff at all... They were actually
 >boring when I was making my analisys, by the way... All is on
 >video...

I'm repeating myself here: So where is the evidence? Something
tells me I'm going to be waiting an awful long time for this
evidence to surface - because the samples either don't exist or
Rutter will have to fabricate the evidence as he already has
done. I'm just waiting for "The Dark Side" bad guys to show up
and steal all of the evidence...again! Oops - I better stop
giving anyone ideas considering they've already used my other
one...

Are we going to believe any alleged "expert" that Maussan brings
into this? After all, Rodolfo Garrido claimed to have examined
the "link artifact" and he claimed it utilized nano-technology.
Of course, there is nothing at all to document or support this
ludicrous claim except the so-called 'analysis' on Dan Iaria's
website:

http://www.aliendestiny.com/PageMexicoCity/RodolfoLinkAnalysis.htm

It should also be noted that Garrido does not have a background
as a scientist according to the resume posted at Iarai's
website:

http://www.aliendestiny.com/PageMexicoCity/RodolfoGarridoResume.htm

Garrido has a background in engineering and television
production with...guess who...Jaime Maussan. Surprise,
surprise...And what about the claim that this so-called artifact
was analyzed in Japan? Who did that analysis, where's the proof?
I get tired of repeating myself...there is none because this
case is a fraud.

This case is a joke and so are the self-proclaimed investigators
direclty invovled with it. I pray that a serious UFO case nevers
comes your way. Thank God you aren't police detectives, the
criminals would praise you for their freedom...

 >Excuse me if my text could contain half answers in your
 >opinion... That's not my intention. Maybe I'm not giving to you
 >the answers you would like to receive, Royce? Anyway I apologize
 >for it... I have no interest at all in defend or protect that
 >case. At all...

It's not about what I want to hear, its about what really is
going on and seeing if anyone in this case wants to tell the
complete truth for once - which they apparently don't. By the
way, my investigation into this matter is far from over and I
have quite a few more surprises in store.

 >I clearly remember the e-mails you sent, I saved them all. Yes,
 >you contacted me after I directly invited you to do so after
 >someone sent me an e-mail you sent to another list about me. I
 >also remember you writing to me:

 >"In fact, you also can contact Jaime Maussan through me. Believe
 >me that what we would like the most is to know the real truth
 >about this case, and that's is the main reason we are
 >investigating this way." and also stating "Feel free to write to
 >Jaime whenever you want. You now know the right way. And if you
 >have the real evidences that this case is a hoax, just let us
 >know with evidences. As journalists, that's what we are looking
 >for."

 >My subsequent e-mails to you went unanswered but did arrive at
 >your e-box. Not only did I ask for info regarding this alleged
 >camera shop where the film was supposed to have been developed
 >at, I also sent you info regarding the fact that Harold Chacon
 >and Robert Aria (aka Robert 'Raith') both worked at the same
 >mini-mart together for at least the past 5 years. The two
 >claimed to have never met until June 1999 and Chacon lied on
 >national radio about being a doctor. In both instances, I never
 >received a response from you even though I sent several e-mails
 >after you invited me to do so. I take you gave this info to
 >Jaime as stated in your e-mail to me...?

 >Also, why is it that these video tapes you allege to contain
 >"amazing" things were left in Mexico by you? I find it hard to
 >believe that this so-called evidence has just been sitting
 >around and has not been disclosed. Is this merely more of an
 >opening for Rutter to attempt to squeeze through - though I
 >don't think anyone will be letting him do that considering there
 >are a lot of people that are very upset over this fraud.

 >Yes, is true that at those dates I was the way to contact Jaime
 >Maussan, simply because he did not reply or check his mails at
 >that time... Very easy... Or not to often, at least... That's
 >it. I was the man in charge to be the link for that office with
 >the net, and it finished time ago with my decision.

So, did you or Maussan investigate the fact that Chacon is not a
doctor, doesn't have a microbiology degree and that he and
Robert Aria (aka Robert Raith) both worked at the same gas
station together for over 5 years? I've never heard this
information offered to the public by any of the 'investigators'
or 'researchers' that have worked on this bogus case.

 >Yes, I am looking for the truth, even in this case, but in this
 >moment not with the intensity I was before, for the causes I
 >already explained. I'm still a journalist and a researcher, but
 >I cannot speak on behalf of Jaime Maussan. He should make his
 >own statements on this, not me. But yes, at that time I was
 >involved in that, 'cause I was working with him... Not any
 >longer... Not any more... In any case, I can assure I passed
 >along to him your E-mails promptly and in its fully version, no
 >editions at all. He received even the possibility to reply to
 >you directly, 'cause the mails I passed on to him, showed your
 >E-mail... He never asked me to reply to you, but to continue
 >with the investigation... In any case, the answer for this is
 >with him, not with me...

 >About Chacon and Raith, I can tell you that they told me, in
 >fact, that they worked at that gas station. Yes, they did. Did
 >it changed or affected my oppinion or my research? No, not at
 >all... This was because is normal that even an engineer can sell
 >bananas or books, and not for this is possible to say that is
 >not an engineer or that doesn't know about engineering... At
 >all... At least, in Mexico and Latin America it happen very
 >often... Doesn't it happen in the States?

 >For me is not relevant that point, at least not conclusive. And
 >remember I called the University, and they confirmed many things
 >you told me there were lies... But they told me they were
 >real...

You mean to tell me, and everyone here on this List, that even
after they claimed to have never met each other until June 1999
- though they worked together as far back as early 1997 - this
fact meant nothing to you in the course of your so-called
investigation?!?! Are you kidding?! Chacon and Aria both stated
to a national radio audience that they had never met until after
Chacon contacted Aria via e-mail and they arrranged a meeting to
have Chacon examine alien tissue and blood. Aria said they met
"after all security measures" had been met and after he verified
that Chacon was a doctor. They introduced Chacon as a Doctor,
knew the two had known each other previously and this meant
nothing to you?

Dan Iaria was asked about Chacon and Aria for a story that ran
in the Seattle Weekly. Iaria said, "Many authors, freelance
writers, and actors take on part-time jobs that are flexible in
order to supplement their income as they struggle to survive.
Again, how is this relevant to Dr. Reed's evidence?" I'm sure
that job at the gas station sure paid for a DNA analysis - was a
Slurpie cup used to store the alien tissue and blood in the ice
machine? Perhaps some Nacho Cheese sauce was used to hold the
specimen in place while Chacon examined it through the bottom of
a coffee pot? I'm not belittling what these people do for
legitimate work, but making a point about how ridiculous their
story is.

And as for your "looking for the truth" - Daniel, you're not
looking very hard. For a guy that gave a bit about ethics and
honesty and journalistic truths, you sure aren't taking your own
advice very well. I understand that you were nervous and quite
reluctant during this broadcast. It is obvious that you are and
have been trying to divert the consequences to you as a so-
called "researcher" since this case has been exposed as an
outright fraud. No excuse is good enough at this point. Again,
it was completely predictable that Rutter would be asserting
such a ridiculous claim that "Dr.Reed" was an alias used to
protect him.


 >I also worked in a hotel and in a market in Mexico, but also I
 >worked before that in an Embassy and with the Foreign Affairs
 >Ministry of Mexico, and now I work in the mass media and in the
 >UFO field, even if I studied Electromechanics... Does it change
 >something, Royce? I was awarded for being the most outstanding
 >student of japanese in 1988 in Mexico, and went to Japan 1
 >month, and after that, I started to work in the Embassy of
 >Japan, at the Japan Foundation Office, and never studied
 >International relations... Was I a fraud for not studying that,
 >Royce? Was I? That's the reason I say this is not relevant, but
 >circumstantial...

Daniel, this is not about your work history - everyone has to
earn a living, and I have nothing against anyone out there being
productive and earning an honest living. However, when someone
claims to be a DOCTOR, and you find them working at a gas
station and they don't have a degree - then it is _absolutley_
relevant and should be immediately reported to the public! It
becomes especially relevant when someone is making claims that
they examined tissue from an EBE! You call this
"circumstantial"?? When I read that part of your message, my jaw
hit the floor! Of course it changes everything, this is basic
investigative common sense. Ignoring these facts or minimizing
them, as you have attempted to do, is a far cry from journalism
or research of any kind.

 >Yes, is possible that in certain circumstances (that I prefeer
 >not to speak about in here), I could left over the videos in
 >that office in Mexico, even if is almost incredible after such
 >separation... But they are there. At least 5 hours of
 >interviews, field research, images, etc. taken in Seattle about
 >that case. If they are not disclosed yet, is even difficult for
 >me to understand... Why are still there, in a box? I suggested
 >Jaime to use them several times, but I also wait for actions
 >regarding that. Is very important in my oppinion to publish
 >that. But frankly I ignore if Reed and Jaime agreed something
 >for not disclose that yet... I never asked'em about it at all...
 >Anyway, I spoke above about some of the things that were found
 >on those not alleged, but real, factual samples...

 >Royce, I believe you found the witnesses to clarify the fraud,
 >and I applaud you expose their testimonies publicly to do it...
 >Why shouldn't I be believed when I say I collected those samples
 >and that Dr. Zohar Gutierrez found amazing things? Please
 >remember I am not the responsable for disclose those evidences
 >any longer... I am also waiting for that, as I stated above...
 >So I ask you to believe if I tell these things, because they are
 >true. Could it be possible, Royce?

So now you're saying it is a fraud? No? Which is it Daniel? Make
your mind up. Oh wait, you already did that Sunday by saying
this case is authentic when everyone now knows it isn't. First
you applaud me then you boo me...wonder what your response would
have been had I not disclosed the information about the radio
broadcast...? And Daniel, you are indeed a responsible party in
this matter as you have claimed to be a journalist and
researcher presenting the facts - many of which you have
conveniently not reported.

No proof exists of any scientific evidence except your word.
Daniel, I hope you seriously don't expect anyone to take your
word for anything relating to this case when you say that key
elements are "circumstantial"?

 >The facts are a bit more than just "quite interesting". The
 >facts conclusively prove that Rutter is lying about this case
 >and who he actually is.

 >OK, let's see what the other side has to say (Rutter, Reed, or
 >whatever could be his name)... Then, if you want, crucify him...
 >Did he replied to you about your investigations? Maybe Dan
 >Iaria?

I sent everyone involved in this e-mails - I have yet to hear
from any of them. Not only are the e-mails out there, but I
asked for statements from those invovled at my website - which I
know has been visited by these people. So why is it that they're
taking so long to respond? Because they know that this case is a
fraud. And why is it that Maussan has chosen to use a radio
broadcast in Mexico instead of coming on to this forum and
presenting his case? Why has he never contacted me, I'm pretty
simple to get a hold of. Daniel, pass this along to Jaime and
remind him about my meeting with him in L.A. 1996 where he
claimed that many of the stars in the sky weren't stars but were
really gigantic UFOs and that is why the stars move from their
position in the night sky.

 >What things are these that made you "understanding the 100% was
 >not true at all..."? Why weren't these reported to the public?

 >Because they are not for public knowledge, Royce, 'cause have
 >nothing to do with "the case" at all... They have to do with his
 >personna, his way to behave, and are personal... Royce, if you
 >make an investigation and you put it openly available for the
 >public in the net, is OK if they ask you about it... But are
 >they in their right to ask you about, for instance, the way you
 >relationate with girls? Has it something to do with your
 >investigations? You have now the answer... It has nothing to do
 >at all... Well, I insist: you have now the answer... Those
 >things, even if are appart from the case, allowed me to know
 >more about his personality, and I did not like it at all... And
 >He and his staff know very well this situation... I'm very clear
 >in those things, but also very honest in not tell publicly what
 >is private...

Don't journalists report everything they witness? Don't
researchers present all of the facts?  I understand that what
you're talking about is a personal situation having to do with
you - Of course, since it has quite a bit to do with this case,
and your opinion of it apparently, I will disclose this
information since it pertains to this case in my next report on
this fraud.

 >The link is nothing more than a prop. Where are all of the
 >alleged lab reports? Where's the hard evidence? There is none
 >because the man claiming to be "Dr.Jonathan Reed" in this case
 >is a fraud. These are questions I have raised since this dupe of
 >a UFO case came out in 1998. All of this alleged secrecy
 >surrounding all of this so-called evidence - this ploy ran out
 >of gas the first year this scam came out. The same tired stories
 >about 'Dr. Reed' being kidnapped and beaten - those too ran out
 >of gas long ago...for as many beating as this guy was supposed
 >to have taken, its amazing he is still walking...physical
 >assaults, being shot - the guy must be made by Timex...We all
 >know if the big, bad black ops guys were out to get him that
 >Rutter would have been pushing daisies by the dozen long ago...

 >I agree in this with you, Royce, 'cause I also need more than a
 >story about kidnapping to close a case... About the "link
 >bracelet", I taped something very similar to what is shown in
 >photos, and it was powerfully custodiated by the police in
 >Mexico, and after Otro Rollo flew away from that country... If
 >it was an extraterrestrial device, of course I cannot say that
 >at all...

You don't agree with me Daniel - you're just saying what is
necessary to serve you in this moment.

 >But what if Reed is working for some institution in the
 >intelligence or for the "big black ops" as you call them,
 >whoever "they" could be? Could it change something, Royce, also
 >for the fact that there were rumors spread that Reed was just a
 >trap to debunk Jaime Maussan with a hoax?

Is this the next excuse you guys are going to use when the rest
of this story comes out and you guys look worse than you already
do? The rest of this story will be out soon, I can guarantee you
that.

 >There are no impressions here, just the clear facts that
 >demonstrate this case to be a complete fraud. Again, why do you
 >keep referring to him as "Reed" - his real name is John Bradley
 >Rutter. I just don't get how anyone could still think this man
 >has any credibility. Glad the guy calling himself "Reed" is
 >still in touch with you, he has yet to answer the e-mail I sent
 >to him. He must be waiting for that next convenient excuse to
 >come along...

 >Thanks for saying this... I explained above why I still call him
 >Reed, so I won't touch this point again. But it would be very
 >interesting (and i would ask him to do it) what the reply to
 >your mail could be, if this is not personal, of course... I
 >don't think he has to tell me nothing, but to you... Anyway,
 >let's see what will or could happen the next days...

I sent him an e-mail and he has yet to respond. For that matter,
the others involved in this case also have yet to reply to my e-
mail. Except for Dan Iaria - he blocked my e-mail some time ago
after I attempted to contact him. This is after he wrote a piece
on me without ureferring to me by name. I simply invited him to
directly communicate with me - which he is apparently not
willing to do since he, Maussan and youself decided to go on a
radio program and defend this case without - once again -
addressing the real facts.

 >I will have a transcript of that program on my website very soon.

 >OK, good for that. If you need an oppinion or something from me,
 >you also can ask me for... I'm available, even if very busy
 >sometimes. So, I apology in advance if I don't reply immediatly
 >sometimes...

I'll also be posting a transcript of this last radio show for
eveyone to see exactly what you had to say.

 >'Dr. Reed' kidnapped again? This is just more of the same bunk
 >crap - excuses, excuses, excuses. Of course he's going to tell
 >you that I'm a debunker and so is everyone else that has
 >something vested in this bogus case. Yes, I'm quite sure Rutter
 >had a convenient explanation for everything including the photos
 >of him, the firsthand witnesses that have gone on record and the
 >video tapes I have of him at family gatherings during the time
 >he claimed to be on the run. Couple that with the fact that he
 >didn't own the Jeep he claimed to have hauled the alien around
 >in until over a year after the bogus encounter and official King
 >County documents showing who he is.

 >This con has more aliases in it than the mob. Daniel, if you'd
 >like, I can direct you to where his mother lives and where he
 >lives at. Daniel, did he ever take you to any restaurants in
 >Seattle during your visit there? Did people there 'recognize'
 >him? Let me know about that, will you?

 >One of my witnesses saw Rutter at his mother's house when an
 >ambulance showed up there on May 2nd - I'm sure it wouldn't be a
 >problem getting a record of that. Also, wasn't he supposed to be
 >on the run starting in October 1996? Why is it then that I have
 >photos of him from Thanksgiving Day in 1996 at his ex-
 >girlfriend's daughter's home? How about video of him at family
 >gatherings during Christmas two years in a row? There is no
 >campaign to debunk or discredit this fraudulent UFO hoax -

 >Rutter has succeeded in doing that himself by lying from the
 >start.

 >Yes. I was in some of those restaurants, and people recognized
 >him, but also in other places... Was this prepared? Of course it
 >is a possibility, but many other things happened that even they
 >don't know, this kind, in my staying to Seattle...

Rutter is a regular at a few Seattle area restaurants - which is
where he probably took you. Did you ever bother to ask any of
the people working in the restaurants what the guy's name was
and how often he came to these restaurants? This is a simple
thing to do considering you're there at the place - did you not
consider doing this?

 >For me, the story of this new kidnapping was strange, too... But
 >I did not so far away, 'cause I'm away from it... If it happen
 >that I can go to the States, I certainly would like to know that
 >data, and maybe meet you and talk...

It apparently wasn't strange enough since you've now decided to
defend this case.

 >I, along with others, still await for Jaime Maussan to comment
 >on the story at my website and the real facts about this case.
 >The question here is how come not one of the so-called
 >investigators involved in this case was able to identify Rutter
 >for who he was?

 >I'm still waiting for many statements on this case, and not only
 >from Jaime maussan, but from Reed... Or Rutter, or whoever he
 >is.

Why didn't Rutter make an immediate statement after the
investigation came out? Here's why - he had to take time and
cook up yet another convenient excuse to try and deflect the
truth about him. And you have the nerve to call yourself a
researcher let alone a journalist?

 >Daniel, we've been given these assurances time and again from
 >people involved in this case. Is this just like the so-called
 >analysis of the 'link artifact' done by Rodolfo Garrido? See:

 >http://www.aliendestiny.com/PageMexicoCity/RodolfoLinkAnalysis.htm

 >This analysis would is laughable at best. This hardly qualifies
 >as a high school research paper on nano-technology much less an
 >"analysis" of any alien device. It simply gives a brief history
 >of nano-technology and some measurement of the prop used by
 >Rutter.

 >Unfortunately, yes, the samples are in Mexico, and I'm also
 >waiting to be published the results... Even myself, who
 >collected all the data...

 >Again, what about the fact that Chacon and Aria both worked at
 >the same gas station for 5 years? This single fact alone should
 >have clued most people in. About the university in Puerto Rico
 >that Chacon alleges to have graduated from - Funny, I called
 >both the numbers on that reference letter you're holding in the
 >video - neither one is for the Catholic University of Puerto
 >Rico. Can you also explain why the last name on the degree
 >alleging to belong to Chacon is blacked out? Why is Dan Iaria
 >claiming that the university is Spanish speaking only, yet
 >Chacon's degree is in English? I know that Chacon works at that
 >gas station for two reasons: 1) I called the gas station and
 >talked with him, and 2) I've been to that gas station and talked
 >with employees there confirming that both he and Aria work
 >there. At the time (July 2001), Aria had quit and was telling
 >people he worked with that he was "traveling and getting rich."
 >Did Chacon tell you about his employment at the gas station?

 >Royce, you are right. Those phone numbers are not any longer for
 >that place... I found the very same results... For that, I
 >looked for the University using the yellow pages, suceeding.
 >Then i called, and found that person who wrote the letter, and
 >spoke to her as I explained before...

I have some Latin American contacts looking into this and I also
have the name on that document. Considering your recent behavior
and flip-flop stance on this case, no one is going to take your
word for anything...

 >As far as I know, either one of the documents I had had any
 >censorship. I really ignore if in an edition this last name was
 >deleted or blacked out in the office of Jaime Maussan... I saw
 >copies of those titles and diplommas, and everything was
 >confirmed in that phone call...

There's one problem with this - you can't simply call the
university and ask to verify someone's educational records. You
have to have written permission - is this what you'll be
claiming next as opposed to making a phone call? It isn't as
simple as picking up a phone book and calling the university.
Every university, here in the states and Puerto Rico, are
covered under educational record laws barring them from
disclosing information about students without written consent
from that person. You couldn't have verified any of his
educational records over the phone. The video of the phone
interview conducted by you is dubious at best...

 >About the gas station, I commented some things above...

 >There are no attacks here - just simple questions requiring
 >straight answers.

 >OK, got it.

It seems to me that you don't get it considering you chose to
attack me by calling me arrogant and malicious. I have simply
proven what I knew to be true all along - the Reed UFO Fraud is
just that...

 >You can always voice your opinion on this case here and now -
 >why wait for Spring? As a matter of fact, I'm asking you
 >directly: Do you still think this case is real and why is it
 >that the identity of Rutter was not discovered by you or other
 >investigators after having claimed to have thoroughly researched
 >him?

 >I repeat again that I don't work with Maussan any longer, so
 >what I will do, will be done in its time and not before, just
 >for a simple reason of lack of time and saturation of work in
 >Europe. This simple. It will be done trough a magazine, and will
 >be presented in a number for that time... They have their times
 >and that's it. They are not second intentions or half truths in
 >here. Is editorial logistics. When I will have my own website,
 >maybe I could be faster, but this is not the case for now... I'm
 >very busy...

You sure are busy, working right along Maussan again.

 >The reason I replied to you is because I had to clarify my
 >position in all this story. Yes, i was very inside, but this was
 >the past. My present is here, not there, so I'm really not
 >interested in being involved in a fraud, 'cause my aim was not
 >to spread a fraud, but an investigation, that unfortunately I
 >couldn't conclude...

Clarify? You apparently are interested in spreading a fraud
around. I'm amazed that you now stand behind this case since you
stated you "couldn't conlcude" your investigation...

 >I'm not part of the Reed's team at all, and is not in my
 >personal interest to help him at all in spreading his case. In
 >any case, it could be my interest to continue the research, and
 >that's it. I was not guilty in working with Jaime Maussan at
 >all, and I have also to clarify that, even if I don't work with
 >him any longer, he's still my friend, but he's in Mexico and I'm
 >here in Europe. That easy.

Supporting this UFO fraud on a radio program isn't part of being
on a team? We're already wading through it, keep it up Daniel
and we'll all drown in your BS..

 >Your English is fine, Daniel - no problem at all. I would just
 >like a clear answer as to where you stand on this case and why
 >all of the investigators alleging to have thoroughly
 >investigated this case were not able to find out who 'Dr. Reed'
 >really was...its just that simple. How so many "real
 >researchers" were allegedly duped by Rutter is simply amazing.

 >Thanks for responding and you can contact me anytime you like. I
 >will always respond to your e-mail.

 >The very same to you. I look forward to meet you sometime
 >somewhere.

I'm not at all interested in meeting you, really.

I hope that this case is a major wake up call for people out
there. It certainly is a prime example of what is wrong with
Ufologly and those claiming to be investigators representing it.
Everytime someone laughs at the mere mention of UFOs, you'll now
know why they do so...


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM





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   May > May 13

                     Eras News: Weekly Briefing 05.13.02

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:05:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:09:20 -0400
Subject: Eras News: Weekly Briefing 05.13.02


ERAS NEWS
The E-News Service of The Eras Project

http://www.geocities.com/erasproject

May 13, 2002

_____________________________


WEEKLY BRIEFING
5.13.02


EXOBIOLOGY
The Search for Extraterrestrial Life

Stereographic Measurements of the Elevations of the Mars Face
Landform and Surroundings
http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/mars/stereography/parallax-results.htm

FACETS Freedom of Information Act inquiry Garners NASA
Admission: We've Done No Scientific Analysis of Cydonia
http://www.infosourceresearch.com/current/FACETS-051002-foia-response.html

Cydonian Imperative: City Square and Pyramid
http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

'Ruler Mound' in Cydonia
http://www.bob-wonderland.supanet.com/enhance_10.htm


QUANTA
Science and Technology

Space Weapons Pose Debris Threat
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/05/03/orbit.debris/index.html

Orbital Telescope Platform Proposed For SETI, Asteroid Watch
Duties
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/submillimetron_020508-1.h=
tml

Mars Odyssey Support for Visual Ice Flashes?
http://skyandtelescope.com/news/current/article_600_1.asp

Two More Unique Martian Meteorites Found In Africa
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/news48.html

Moon Probe to Map 'Peak of Eternal Light'
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/05/10/moon.mountain/index.html

'Frozen Smoke' Deemed World's Lightest Solid
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/05/09/record.gel/index.html


EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena

National Media Sidestep UFOs
http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/columnstoryA18534A.htm


____________________________


Eras News is the e-news service of The Eras Project,
providing the latest news, reports and updates, including
the Weekly Briefing, sent free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe Eras News
in the subject line to:
psa@look.ca


The Eras Project is a non-profit future studies project
focusing on the leading-edge news, events, ideas and
discoveries that will shape the future of humanity as we
enter the 21st Century and a new Era.

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
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=A9 The Eras Project, 2002






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                   Flying Saucer Spotted in Distant Skies

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:45:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:10:58 -0400
Subject: Flying Saucer Spotted in Distant Skies


Hello, all.

Check this one out at Space.com: Not, unfortunately, what I
first thought.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/eso_flysaucer_020513.html

GT McCoy








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                       Re: Fire The Government - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:54:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:12:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Fire The Government - Clark


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:43:42 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:01:03 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>>From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:05:43 -0500
 >>>Subject: Fire The Government

 >>>There is a perfectly legal cure.....

 >>>Fire The Government Petition

 >>>Our government was set up 226 years ago for an illiterate
 >>>population that no longer exists. We can wrest control from the
 >>>government only if we can set aside our petty differences and
 >>>work as a team.

 >>Why is it implicitly assumed here that all differences within a
 >>society are merely "petty"? Oh, well....

 >...forgetting that government very likely _is_ created for
 >people that (would?) no longer exist (if they had choices), an
 >assessment regarding the pettiness of 'most' social differences
 >is an odds _on_ favorite. Human beings have manufactured
 >undeniably specious reasons to hate one another over the years,
 >all of it a dodge for gainful individuals to maintain privileged
 >positions, influence, control, and power. I think the metaphor
 >dovetails neatly into our ufological society as well, 90% crap,
 >5% sociopathic, and only 1 percent actualized.

I have snipped the rest of Mr. Lehmberg's ramblings, which
amount, entirely predictably, to conspiracy theory, and one even
less coherent than most.

Conspiracy theories are to real-life politics, history, and
current events what pornography is to real-life sexuality - in
other words, an extremely distant approximation. Both conspiracy
theory and pornography, not incidentally, have the effect of
discouraging their consumers from becoming responsible, rational
adults and functioning in a real, complicated world. It's
easier, of course, to rant about sinister forces rendering all
of us into helpless pawns, and laying all human problems on the
machinations of behind-the-scenes, all-powerful plotters, than
to participate in civic society, inform oneself, weigh
difficult, complex issues and choices, make one's voice heard,
and vote as an educated citizen. Besides being just plain crazy,
conspiracy theory is an intellectually lazy way out of actually
having to think.

There's a splendid recent book on this subject, Robert Alan
Goldberg's Enemies: The Culture of Conspiracy in Modern America
(Yale University Press, 2001). It contains an illuminating and
provocative chapter on conspiracy theories within the UFO world
which should be - whether one agrees with every word of it or
not - of special interest to ufologists.


Jerry Clark







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               Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:27:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:15:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall


 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 07:23:22 +1200 (NZST)
 >From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
 >To: Updates List <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >Greetings List People

 >With regard to the many discussions on whether Photographs and
 >videos are evidence of that UFO,s are real, ta least years ago I
 >heard a statement regarding photographs of UFO's which implied
 >that:

 >    "A photograph is only as good as the credibility of the
 >      Photographer"

 >For this reason one must take photographs with some suspicion
 >and check out the person whom has taken the photograph !!


Murray,

That was my statement in The UFO Evidence (1964) repeated in
Volume II.

Photos are, of course, evidence in the legal and judicial sense
if they are credibly reported and documented.

The problem arises when someone of unknown credibilty (or
dubious credibility) presents undocumented or incompletely
investigated phoros as alleged evidence.

Are George Adamski's photos evidence of the reality of UFOs?

I think not.

In line with a previous post, I would say that raw reports of
unexplained aerial phenomena with accompanying photographs
deserve very full attention and investigation until the
credibility of the reporter is established and the case is or
isn't explained in conventional terms.

A relatively small number of photos in UFO history are extremely
well investigated and documented (e.g., Trindade Isle, 1958) and
constitute, in conjunction with a lot of other data, very good
evidence for the reality of real UFOs (Bruce's TRUFOs or USAF
"unknowns.")


  - Dick Hall







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                         NASA Boldly Goes... On eBay

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:27:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:33:06 -0400
Subject: NASA Boldly Goes... On eBay


Source: The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/12/technology/ebusiness/12NASA.html?ex=1022287312
&ei=1&en=6594b60901a7f61d

----

For Old Parts, NASA Boldly Goes . . . on eBay

May 12, 2002
By WILLIAM J. BROAD

NASA needs parts no one makes anymore.

So to keep the shuttles flying, the space agency has begun
trolling the Internet - including Yahoo and eBay - to find
replacement parts for electronic gear that would strike a home
computer user as primitive.

Officials say the agency recently bought a load of outdated
medical equipment so it could scavenge Intel 8086 chips - a
variant of those chips powered I.B.M.'s first personal computer,
in 1981.

When the first shuttle roared into space that year, the 8086
played a critical role, at the heart of diagnostic equipment
that made sure the shuttle's twin booster rockets were safe for
blastoff.

Today, more than two decades later, booster testing still uses
8086 chips, which are increasingly scarce. NASA plans to create
a $20 million automated checking system, with all new hardware
and software. In the meantime, it is hoarding 8086's so that a
failed one does not ground the nation's fleet of aging
spaceships.

The same is true of other obsolescent parts, dozens of them.

"It's like a scavenger hunt," said Jeff Carr, a spokesman for
the United Space Alliance, the Houston company that runs the
shuttle fleet. "It takes some degree of heroics."

Troves of old parts that NASA uncovers and buys, officials said,
are used not in the shuttles themselves but in flotillas of
servicing and support gear. Such equipment is found, and often
repaired, at major shuttle contractors around the nation, as
well as at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida, where the
shuttles blast into orbit.

That old computer in your basement? NASA is not interested. The
agency and its contractors want stockpiles of old parts to buy
in bulk for repairing old machinery and building inventories of
spare parts.

Recent acquisitions include outdated computer chips, circuit
boards and eight-inch floppy-disk drives. "One missing piece of
hardware can ruin our day," said Mike Renfroe, director of
shuttle logistics planning for the United Space Alliance at the
Kennedy Space Center.

Recently, Mr. Renfroe said, his team swept the Internet to find
an obsolete circuit board used in testing the shuttle's master
timing unit, which keeps the spaceships' computers in sync. None
could be found. A promising lead turned false. Finally, a board
was found. It cost $500.

"That's very inexpensive," Mr. Renfroe said. "To hire a design
engineer for even one week would cost more than that."

NASA's growing reliance on antiquated parts is in some ways a
measure of how far its star has fallen. In the early 1960's, the
agency played a leading role in founding the chip industry. Its
mass purchase of the world's first integrated circuits set the
fledgling business on the road to profitability.

In turn, the expensive chips let NASA achieve feats of
miniaturization that put advanced satellites into orbit and men
on the moon. Thousands went into the lunar lander, making its
guidance computer "smaller, lighter, faster, more power-
efficient and more reliable than any other computer in
existence," as T. R. Reid wrote in "The Chip" (Simon & Schuster,
1984).

Today, NASA is increasingly a victim of its own success.
Civilian electronic markets now move so fast, and the shuttles
are so old, that NASA and its contractors must scramble to find
substitutes.

In the past, NASA procurement experts would go through old
catalogs and call suppliers to try to find parts. Today, the
hunt has become easier with Internet search engines and sites
like eBay, which auctions nearly everything.

Mr. Carr of the United Space Alliance said that when the
government bought complex systems like jet fighters, the
contracts often had provisions that called for routine upgrades
and improvements as a way to limit obsolescence. But the
shuttles, with a design lifetime of a decade, never had that
kind of built-in refurbishment plan.

The winged spaceships are to fly until 2012. But NASA is
researching whether their retirement date can be pushed back to
2020.

For parts hunters, it could be a long haul. The shuttles, Mr.
Renfroe of the United Space Alliance noted in an awed tone,
"could go for 40 or 50 years."

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/12/technology/ebusiness/12NASA.html?ex=1022287312
&ei=1&en=6594b60901a7f61d

--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:13:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:35:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 00:03:13 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:26:07 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >
 >>>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >>>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 01:37:42 -0500

 ><snip>

 >>>No matter how much analysis is conducted or by whom there is no
 >>>way to _prove_ an image is either genuine or a hoax/fake. The
 >>>best we can achieve is opinion based on analyses conducted by
 >>>others whether they are "photographic experts" or otherwise.
 >>>Whether these opinions are accepted or rejected depends largely
 >>>on each person's opinion of the "expert's" qualifications to
 >>>render an accurate analysis. So, ultimately, it all boils down
 >>>to opinion.

 >>If that's true, then there's very little "hard evidence" for
 >>anything and much of established science boils down to a matter
 >>of opinion. For instance, I'd consider fossils as (literally)
 >>hard evidence supporting evolutionary theory, but fossils _can_
 >>be faked, as was proven by the Piltdown Man hoax. Taking their
 >>cue from that incident, creationists deride the fossils of the
 >>first bird-like reptile, Archaeopterix, as the "Piltdown
 >>Chicken." Photographs are hard evidence even if in general they
 >>can be faked, just as fossils can be.

Hiya Bruce,

You wrote:

 >Amy has the jist of it. It took me many years to realize it, but
 >the bottom line is this: a photo a UFO does not make.

That's true. But that isn't what I was talking about or trying
to imply. If a photo or a videotape of of a sighting cannot be
considered as corroborative evidence for a sighting report, it
begs the question; "Why bother recording the event at all?" I
was laboring under the delusion that if I managed to 'record'
the events on film or tape that I was doing a 'good thing' (the
'right' thing) in order to provide 'corroboration' for the
report. The camera is a second witness in my eyes. It should be
considered as such. According to what I'm hearing, myself and
others are simply wasting our time recording these events and
wasting our money on expensive photographic equipment.

Please allow me to clarify something.

I don't record the events to prove to anyone that "UFOs" are
'space ships' being built and piloted by 'aliens' from another
world. That is something that Amy and yourself have
'interjected' into the discussion. The reason that _I_ record
the sightings to is to provide _corroboration_
(photographic/visually) for the sighting. (What I saw.) If after
a careful analysis it can be determined that the objects
depicted in any given photo or videotape are genuine "unknowns"
(as in; not pictures of airplanes, birds, or weather balloons,
etc.) then they should be considered for further investigation
and acknowledged as corroboration for the sighting report.

Again, just to be clear, I am not saying that photo or video is
evidence of vehicles from 'outer space' or that they are built
and piloted by ET. We can all deal with that question another
time.

It is disheartening to me to hear how little value is attached
to photo and video evidence by an 'expert.' Makes me wonder why
I bothered to invest so much in decent equipment so that I can
better record the events.

Question: Are you saying that people shouldn't even bother to
photograph or videotape a sighting because it won't prove or
mean anything to anybody? If so, my next stop is e-bay!

Anybody interested in a heap of video and photographic
equipment?

 >Instead, a photo is 'merely' an aid to the recollection of the
 >witness.....

An "aid to memory?" Or corroboration of the sighting event? The
difference in definition is important.

 >The same probably goes for video, but it is harder to
 >fake.

Not a very 'positive' comment about the value of videotape
either.

 >The 1997 Mexico City video is a prime case in point: the
 >videographer was never discovered and 'fingerprints of a hoax'
 >were discovered in the video after many hours of analysis by
 >Jeff Sainio and myself.

Because one can be faked, they can all be faked. Yeah, I've
heard that one before. But again that's not what I was
saying/talking about. Your use of the Mexico video here in the
context of this thread is a kind of back door way of minimizing
the value of _all_ photographic material. Not very encouraging
to someone like myself who has taken the time to record
sightings. It also minimizes the value of photographic material
as corroboration for a sighting report. Some thing I disagree
with.

Sure, 'some' photo's are faked/hoaxed intentionally. But they
_all_ aren't. Seems to me that you're throwing the baby out with
the bath water. And I never said, or meant to imply, that any
photo should be considered as proof conclusive of the 'origin'
of any craft that may be depicted or that photos can provide
clues as to the nature of the manufacturer. You're throwing
apples in with my oranges!  :)


Regards,

John Velez, -Frustrated- UFO photographer







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                     Re: Fire The Government - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:31:37 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:42:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Fire The Government - Goldstein


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:43:42 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:01:03 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>>From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:05:43 -0500
 >>>Subject: Fire The Government

 >>>There is a perfectly legal cure.....

 >>>Fire The Government Petition

<snip>

 >At the risk of Mr. Scovel taking one across his literary chin
 >and not speaking out twice because he's been whacked once, let
 >me remind him that this is just Mr. Clark's _opinion_ and
 >everyone has one of _those_ ,too. The points Mr. Scovel raised:
 >Efficacy of government, inability to cooperate, and the
 >pettiness found in reasons precipitating that lack of
 >cooperation... were good points in a quality post.

 >His spirit is much appreciated. The architects of our ignorance
 >(whoever or whatever they are) are employers of the points he
 >raises, and are not so easily dismissed by Mr. Clark. It is
 >completely correct that 'they' are the 'employees' not the
 >'employers'. It is completely correct that 'they' do properly
 >subordinate themselves to us as public servants. It is
 >completely correct that freedom loving individuals should look
 >for ways to cooperate, and avoid looking for reasons to do the
 >inverse. Mr. Clark should step off, a little. Scovel was 'on' in
 >this post much more than he was 'off'.

 >It's a real testament to the times, actually, that a suggestion
 >such as his is even raised. It is not unearned even if it is
 >unworkable. Consider a second suggestion. A grassroots civil
 >action, vis a vis a person successful in similar actions, Dan
 >Sheehan, guiltily associated of late, but with a track record of
 >success, regardless (Watergate, Silkwood, Iran/Contra... Dr.
 >John Mack keeping his job at Harvard after taking 'abduction'
 >seriously...), would go further in the direction he'd want to, I
 >think. ...Civil disobedience, aggressive non-violence, right to
 >petition. Anything Malcolm X, MLK, or Gandhi would have done.

 >...but I like his spirit. "You're fired..." Were it that easy...
 >And maybe it is. If full disclosure did put the controllers out
 >of control, in effect firing them, maybe that's the -real-
 > problem, the genesis of a lack in cooperation, and a
 >justification for not moving one step forward, ufologically, in
 >50 years. ...that 'they' _can_ be fired after all...

 >>But I would like to take this opportunity to
 >>urge Listfolk to participate in the political lives of their
 >>respective democracies. VOTE, people.

 >Yes vote... take your choice between the two offered arms of the
 >same officiously corrupt beast, and pick one. Vote, by all
 >means, for one or the other corporate drone, political patsy, or
 >ill made man. Continue the illusion that the individual still
 >has some measure of control in a polite society, and that their
 >choices really mean anything at all. Continue to pretend that
 >our government has the individual's best interest at heart...

 >>In a democracy you get the
 >>kind of government you deserve.

 >You get the government you demand. Very, Very few get what they
 >deserve.

 >>If you don't happen to like the
 >>people currently in power, you have a free voice and a vote. Use
 >>them to put somebody better in power.

 >Just like what you read in your Weekly Reader 40 years ago!
 >Dreams are made real! Your votes count (unless you vote for the
 >wrong guy, like in the last Presidential election).

 >>I know this isn't as thrilling an option as the barstool
 >>solution of firing the gummint, but it's an infinitely more
 >>doable, realistic, and grown-up one.

 >Oh, it could be that one is as valueless as the other. Truly,
 >Mr. Scovel's discomfort and expression of it is well taken and
 >understood by _this_ reader, and is more appealing than quick
 >calls on "rationality" or juvenile calls to support a sick civic
 >system getting more tyrannical and authoritarian with each
 >passing day. Good post (even _if_ hot-headed and unworkable) Mr.
 >Skovel, and welcome to the List.

 >Lehmberg@snowhill.com


Hello Alfred,

When Jerry Scovel posted his statement regarding "firing the
government" I had a good laugh at that proposition. I was going
to post and remark that he may have some valid points but firing
the government was so absurd that I almost wrote out my laughs
at the idea. I decided not to post anything as I did not want to
scoff at him and cause him discomfort.

Jerry Clark wrote his response and it was more diplomatic than
what I had in mind. He wrote his opinion and you have written
yours. For curious reasons you feel your opinion carries much
greater import than Jerry's because your own fixed ideas
regarding your beef with the government are supreme in your
mind. For years I have read endless rants and odes of yours
regarding your adversarial fears that they control us and don't
give the normal citizen a fair shake at democracy. You keep
playing the same unchromatic tune endlessly. Please try to
expand your repertoire beyond your personal angst. An all beef
diet can get damned boring.

Alfred, if you feel so strongly that the government is a
tyranny, what are you doing to help make things better? Your
rants are so overloaded with clever turns of the word that they
miss the point of making a proposition clear and direct. Are you
involved in national politics and trying to change things to be
more fair? Do you participate in local politics to try to give
the people of the wiregrass area a fair shake? What are you
doing to help bring out evidence that would stand in court
regarding UFO cases? Or are you trying to do it all from
outside the system by attacking the system?

Good luck, as the conditions do not exist for that kind of mass
movement. Or should I see you and a few friends on the news
trashing stores and any other convenient targets as you try to
bring down in the system. What would you put in its place and
how would it be run? Do you have any positive and constructive
ideas beyond "aggressive civil disobedience?

You mentioned Dan Sheehan. I don't want to knock him but I was
active in a Christic Institute project in the '80s regarding
Iran Contra. A contemporary search of released documents
regarding Iran Contra prove that Dan Sheehan and the institute
were molding facts to fit their beef. Offline I can substantiate
that with you if you so desire.

When the last presidential election came down to the wire I was
shocked by the close tally and the conditions that prevailed at
the time of vote counting. However, numerous independent studies
prove that it was very close but no culpable actions took place
that would have changed the results. I was for the loser but I
accepted that in a democratic election voters may be quite
evenly split. If you look at the present polls regarding what
people think of the way the current president is handling
things.there is overwhelming support. So in a democracy the
people speak. Just sitting there ranting and odeing is a Don
Quixote method of trying to change things for the better. If you
want change try to change things within the party of your
choice. There is very little chance of changing it from without,
as Ross Perot, Jerry Brown, and Ralph Nader clearly
demonstrated. If you don't have a well defined platform based on
facts the other candidates do not see with well defined steps
for improvement and change, then most people won't be
interested. Rants are like Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

Alfred, in the UFO field many people are working long and hard
to research and publish legitimate investigations. For example,
I have been lately studying Jerry Cohen's investigations and
looking at them in the context of other research on those cases.
Jerry is only one of many researchers and they keep building
ever more complete cases regarding events in the field. I
suggest that you stop ranting and look at what you can
contribute to help that effort.

For example, you have for years put at the end of your posts a
request for John Ford to receive donations. Where have you
posted the facts regarding his case such as hearing documents,
psychological evaluations, etc. so that potential supporters can
gain an objective view of his case? Why should they support him
without examining the real evidence in his legal case?

Alfred, this is just food for thought but I suggest that you
find a practical and pragmatic means to try and effect the
changes you desire rather than an all beef diet without the
required vitamins.


Sincerely,

Josh









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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   May > May 13

               EW: 05-13-02 Dark Matter Missiles Impact Earth

From: Kurt Jonach <ewarrior_electricwarrior_com@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 12:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:51:14 -0400
Subject: EW: 05-13-02 Dark Matter Missiles Impact Earth


--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : Web Log May 13, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com

--------------------------------------------------

DARK MATTER MISSILES IMPACT EARTH
alternative science

photo: Earth (NASA, Apollo 13)
http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/EarthApollo13.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - Scientists now say that tiny clumps of
matter they call "strangelets" are occasionally bombarding
Earth. The team of researchers reached their conclusion by
correlating terrestrial earthquake reports.

If the scientists are right, the super-dense miniature meteors -
- thought to be made of subatomic particles called quarks --
pass right through Earth, at speeds up to 900,000 mph. The
theoretical strangelets would solve long-standing mysteries,
including the nature of "dark matter".

What is the threat assessment for Earth? As reported by the
Telegraph, "The good news is that, despite their force, the
impact of strangelets on an inhabited area would, probably, be
less violent than that of a meteor."

--------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

12-May-02
Earth punctured by tiny cosmic missiles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F05%2F12%2Fwnugg1
2.xml

(Telegraph UK) - The two objects were picked up by earthquake
detectors as they tore through Earth at up to 900,000 mph.
According to scientists, the most plausible explanation is that
they were "strangelets", clumps of matter that have so far
defied detection but whose existence was posited 20 years ago.

--------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
May 13, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the
content of Web links. The content reproduced here
is for informational purposes only. All copyrights
Acknowledged.

eWarrior@electricwarrior.com








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              Re: Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech? -

From: William H Evans <whevans032766@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:00:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:54:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech? -


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 18:28:32 +0000
 >Subject: Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech?

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 22:18:24 +0200
 >>Subject: Roswell Debris Inspired 'Anti-grav.' Tech?

 >>Did Roswell Debris Inspire Working, 'Antigravitational'
 >>Technology?

 >>Source: Wired News, May 11, 2002,

 >>http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,52432,00.html

 >>Stig

 >>***

 >>'Lifters': An Idea in the Clouds
 >>By Michelle Delio

 >>2:00 a.m. May 11, 2002 PDT

 >>**

 >>Antigravitational devices developed by a computer geek could
 >>eventually change the world as we know it.

 >>Or they may just blow a few holes into some barn roofs.

 >>The devices are known as "lifters." When charged with a small
 >>amount of electrical power, they levitate, apparently able to
 >>resist Earth's gravitational forces.

 ><snip>

 >This sounds like the successful experiment by Townsend Brown, I
 >believe it was in the 1950s, in which he used a pair of
 >metallized umbrellas and charged the pair of umbrellas as a
 >capacitor, one umbrella being positive, the other negative. The
 >film of his success has been shown on educational TV once in a
 >rare while.

 >It's been conjectured that if an electrically-super-strong
 >dielectric layer (insulating layer between charged plates) were
 >developed, and stacked plates were used to multiply the effect,
 >and megavolts, as from a Tesla Coil could be applied and
 >maintained between plate sets, a true Earthling "electrostatic
 >helicopter" could be built, and could fly just as well outside
 >the atmosphere as inside it.

There is a company in Huntsville that is developing electrically
charged levitation devices. The company is called
"Transdimensional Technologies":

http://www.tdimension.com/

They were on the local news one night demonstrating their
research, and the guy they had on said the device was charged to
30 KV.

The Wired article did not mention Marshall Space Flight Center
by name, but unless I am mistaken, the Breakthrough Propulsion
Physics lab is located in Huntsville at MSFC.


Bill Evans
Hartselle, AL








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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:27:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:57:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Rimmer


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:08:22 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >When it comes to photoanalysis, Bruce Maccabee's opinon [better,
 >his carefully reported analyses] are certainly worth a lot more
 >than Joe Blow off the street. The same applies to those of us
 >who have spent decades carefully analyzing data versus people
 >who like to spout opinions from their armchairs.

What about those of us who have carefully spent decades spouting
opinions from our armchairs?


--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk








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                     Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:55:38 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:00:56 -0400
Subject: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory


Hi everyone!

Last month my friend Mike and I drove out to Smiths Falls to
check out the huge collection of government surplus electronic
and scientific equipment at 'W. J. Ford Surplus Enterprises'
located in Smiths Falls, about an hour's drive west of Ottawa.
Since William Ford who runs this place (the owner is Ron, his
son) once worked for the Federal Government under Wilbert B.
Smith, Canada's best known flying saucer researcher, I had hoped
to find and possibly purchase a part of UFO history - the actual
instruments that detected a UFO from Canada's official flying
saucer observatory. This facility at Shirley's Bay just outside
of Ottawa was loaned to Smith for this purpose by Dr. O. M.
Solandt, Chairmam of the Defence Research Board (there is even a
street not far from this flying saucer observatory named after
Solandt).

Although I was armed with photos from the archives of the gamma
ray instrument; the magnetometer; the radio noise detector and
the gravimeter that "went wild" during the detection of a flying
saucer back in on August 8, 1954 - instruments which Ford was
familiar with, he no longer had this equipment or any of the
other "new science" hardware that Smith and other scientists
developed with the help from the "boys topside".

According Arthur Bray in his book 'The UFO Connection', as early
as 1951 Smith wrote to a senior member of the Canadian Embassy
staff in Washington, D.C. that Project Magnet, Canada's first
official flying saucer project, already had three engineers and
two technicians that were working full-time on this project. I
have been able to identify many more researchers, including some
of Canada's top scientists, who were also actively involved with
Smith in flying saucer research. In his book 'The Truth About
Flying Saucers', Aime Michel also identifies a few more,
including "Dr. James Watt, a physician from the department of
military research [DRB]; Mr. John H. Thompson, another
telecommunications specialist, Professor J.T. [Tuzo] Wilson, of
the University of Toronto; Dr. G.D. Garland, the Dominion
Observatory's gravitation expert, and other research workers."
as well as the full support of "Dr. O.M. Solandt, President of
the Military Research Department [DRB], and Mr. Dean Mackenzie,
ex-President of the National Council of Scientific Research
[NRC].".

While in Ottawa, I visited the NRC building where I asked to see
the UFO papers of the late astronomer Dr. Peter M. Millman who
chaired Project Second Storey (initially known as Project
Theta), Canada' other UFO research project. Many boxes of these
UFO documents are located in a basement value and remain highly
classified. Never-the-less, the archivist I dealt with is
excited at getting another chance to look through these UFO
papers which he compared to the "X-Files" (yes, UFO entities are
frequently mentioned) as he now searches for me something that
was written about in the media back in 1954 - two mysterious
satellites (meteoroids or E.T. spacecraft?) that were detected
in Earth orbit.

I have plans to return to Ottawa soon to do follow up checks on
some of these other individuals that were also involved, along
with Smith, in Canada's flying saucer research projects. I would
appreciate it a lot if anyone can provide me with additional
information or new leads about these UFO projects and I will
share whatever I find in future posts to UFO UpDates, including
more about the two pre-Sputnik satellites.


Nick Balaskas








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                      An Informative Page About Lifters

From: William H Evans <whevans032766@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:01:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:02:11 -0400
Subject: An Informative Page About Lifters


http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/liftout.htm

This page even has some video of lifters in action.


Bill Evans
Hartselle, AL









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                       Re: VeriChip Implants - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:50:25 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:55:28 -0400
Subject: Re: VeriChip Implants - Ledger


 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: VeriChip Implants
 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 01:09:20 +0100

 >Hi all,

 >Over the past couple of day's I've been watching a little
 >segment on Sky news (UK) about experiments carried out by a
 >company based in Florida called Applied Digital Solutions
 >Incorporated. Volunteers have agreed to take part in testing
 >something they have developed called VeriChip.

 >VeriChip is quote:

 >"An implantable, 12mm by 2.1mm radio frequency device, VeriChip
 >is about the size of the point of a typical ballpoint pen. It
 >contains a unique verification number. Utilizing an external
 >scanner, radio frequency energy passes through the skin
 >energizing the dormant VeriChip, which then emits a radio
 >frequency signal containing the verification number. The number
 >is displayed by the scanner and transmitted to an FDA compliant
 >secure data storage site by authorized personnel via telephone
 >or Internet"

 >Sounds like a good idea you might say but listen to this, work is
 >already under way to develop a more controversial smaller
 >version.

 >This one contains all of the above plus satellite tracking.
 >According to the report ADSI are pitching the device to the
 >public as something that will allow you to always know where
 >your kids are.
 >
 >Believe me it won't end there, before you know it they will
 >become so small that they can be injected at birth.


Wonder where they got the idea from for this?

Don Ledger







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              Re: UFO Photographs As Physical Evidence - Kelly

From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:54:51 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:02:29 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Photographs As Physical Evidence - Kelly


Hello List,

Much has been said recently about using UFO photographs as
evidence. Here is my take:

John Velez & List,

I have submitted video tapes to Jeff Saino, Richard Haines, and
Tom King for testing in the past on several UFO cases. I think
the problem is the circumstances relating to the sighting.
Richard Haines, one of the premiere UFO researchers told me that
video tape is not highly regarded as evidence by serious
researchers due to the fact that there is a lack of resolution
on video tape to test it under scientific conditions, where
there would be resolution for testing on photographs. Video,
opens up the possibility for hoaxers to use simple software
programs to fake images on the video tape itself. Which can be
hard to detect.

Last Year, PAX did a segment on the validity of UFO photographs.
Different objects were thrown off of a mountain and photographed
at their apex in flight, then turned over to experts to see what
they would say about them. Each expert labeled them as objects,
which is good. However, here lies the problem. Anyone can fake a
UFO sighting by having simple knowledge on photography.
Scientists will not stick their necks out to support a ufo case
with a single witness to a photograph or video tape.

Tom King of Skynet in Phoenix is doing it right. Once an object
is sighted, he contacts other members in his group that are
situated all over the city to deploy, and video tape the
reported UFO from different angles and locations to help
triangulate the location and validity of the sighting. That is
how you do it. I urge those of you that have not seen his
website to view his skywatcher footage at www.ufovideo.com

Kevin Randle recently put out a book called 'Spaceships of The
Visitor's' which rates both classic and current UFO photgraphs
and cases on a 1 to 10 scale.

In conclusion, we need multiple video tapes or photographs, plus
multiple witness testimony from as many people as possible, for
each sighting. That might help validate the case for the
debunkers and the fence sitting scientists who are afraid to
endorse anything relating to Ufology


Jim Kelly







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                 Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? -

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 05:02:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:06:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? -


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:08:22 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 03:30:16 -0500

 >>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:26:07 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 ><snip>

 >>Some people may consider photographs of UFO's as "hard evidence"
 >>while others may not. It all depends on what each individual
 >>considers as "evidence" as well as "hard evidence". Let's face
 >>it, there are no clear guidelines or criteria for establishing
 >>whether or not a photograph of an alleged UFO is genuine or
 >>fake. At best all we have are the analyses (opinions) of those
 >>we trust to tell us what they think a photograph is or is not
 >>based on their background and abilities in the art of
 >>photoanalysis.

 >>There are no machines or computers that we can put these
 >>photographs through to determine, beyond doubt, which images are
 >>real and which are not. I wish such a machine existed but it
 >>does not.

 >>So the bottom line is there is no way to prove a photograph is
 >>genuine or fake and no way to prove an image is of a genuine UFO
 >>or a hoax. If there were a way to prove these contentions, this
 >>List would have solved these mysteries long ago.

 >Amy,

 >The fallacy of your argument is that science or scientific
 >method never 'proves' anything. All conclusions are tentative
 >and subject to constant review. But if you are seriously arguing
 >that anyone's opinion is equally valid with that of anyone else,
 >I respectfully but strongly disagree.

 >When it comes to photoanalysis, Bruce Maccabee's opinon [better,
 >his carefully reported analyses] are certainly worth a lot more
 >than Joe Blow off the street. The same applies to those of us
 >who have spent decades carefully analyzing data versus people
 >who like to spout opinions from their armchairs.

 >- Dick Hall


Hi Dick, Amy, and all fellow Listerions,

I agree with Dick's post and I would like to expand it. Murray
Bott posted that part of a photograph's provenance depends on
the credibility of the photographer. Depending on what one is
trying to prove in a photograph, other proofs of provenance may
be required.

For example, the Magruder film of the assasination of JFK is
probably the heaviest studied piece of film in history. The
audio of the gunshots in Dallas that were inadvertatntly made
from an open mike of a motorcycle Dallas police officer is
probably the most examined audio recording segment. However, the
House Subcommittee on Assasination had to reenact the
assasination in order to gain further evidence.

As for credibility, Bruce Maccabee is a physicist who is well
versed in scientific protocols. Bruce also is quite knowledgable
in phoyoanalysis and is capable of debating and defending his
technique, practice, and conclusions with his peers in
photoanalysis. History has proven his capabilities. In addition,
he has been a highly respected researcher and investigator in
the UFO field for many years. Those qualities are the pillars of
his credibility.

Dick Hall has strong pillars of credibility with the most
qualified researchers in the UFO field. He has been involved in
it for a great many years. He writes from his knowledge based on
experience and critical analysis. He also is very experienced in
the organization and credibility of Ufology.

I'm not posting this to toot their horns or get them into
office. I just wanted to illustrate that a person's credibility
often is in numerous areas.

In the recent discussion of photographs, their value as evidence
was discussed in a limited manner. I think that various
applications require different standards.of proof of evidence.
For example, I am not an attorney, none have replied to this
topic, and this is not the forum for an in depth discussion of
what is required to introduce photographs as evidence before a
court of law. I'd like to give a couple of brief descriptions of
ways I had to prove evidence in the past. I had learned how to
develop a case with well founded evidencethat would stand up in
court when I went to the good ole West Coast Detective Academy
in North Hollywood. Just call me Sam Spade :-).

In the UFO field standards are not very well established. In
most of what I call popular UFO fluff there are no real
standards.

When I was an investigator for a private detective company some
of my first work was in Workers Compensation fraud cases. I
would stake a suspect's property with a video camera so that I
would catch a person who was allegedly disabled from a work
accident out washing his car, cutting his grass, hauling his
trash, etc. No, I never caught someone fraudulently disabled
humping his wife like Superman in the bedroom <g>.  I didn't
enjoy having been hired by husbands or wives to covertly video
their cheatin' spouses so they could haul them into court,
divorce them and sue.

Those videos were accompanied by my report where I attested to
the validity of the video. Even though I had the provenance of
the position I was in I sometimes had to swear my provenance and
the evidence within the video under oath in an attorney's office
or on the witness stand in court. We also used many
sophisticated electronic surveillance techniques that had their
own legal evidence universe before the law. It used to be cool
to be in a van to covertly hear and record the conversation
going on in a room on the fifth floor of a building acrooss the
street that I never entered. The building was heavily locked and
all windows were closed.

How could I hear everything from the street or another building
across the street? I used a sophisticated infrared surveillance
that could pick up and record the voices from within the room by
sending infrared and reading the miniscule vibrations in the
window glass caused by any sound from anywhere in the room. It
would turn those vibrations back into the sounds in the room.
Pretty cool, huh? Well, that was ten years ago. Since then
surveillance has gotten much more sophisticated.

So, all abductees , UFO witnesses, UFO researchers, those
organizing to fire the government (I'm mad as Hell and I'm not
going to take it any more!), and even twisted brains named
Rutter - watch out!

Even closing your curtains or lowering your blinds will not stop
the surveillance. Did you ever wonder why Men in Black are not
needed anymore, even though MIB 2 is coming to your theatre?
They just want you to think they are still around but they went
out with whitewalls and the invention (not AEC alien seeding) of
the transistor.

When home or anywhere else only whisper to others in a newly
made up language within the confines of a closed and windowless
bathroom, with loud punk rock, no lights, and equipped to emit
high energy multi spectrum all frequency band electromagnetic
signal jamming, and one of my special high priced alien
crystals in your hands, held over your third eye. It also wards
off demons from the darkness. :-)

Hmm, maybe I should betray my beliefs in standards of Ufology
and sell alien mojo crystals to all the fools who believe all
the weirdos on Fred Bell and believe Reeds with lyin' and
cheatin' Rutters. I won't lie, I'll just advertise Alien Mojos -
  Necessary for Your Journey - $39.95. They can use their
intuition to figure out the rest.

I must pray for an answer. If I don't tell a lie and all those
lying frauds are making money from the ignorant, and giving them
nothing in return, what is wrong with me selling those chumps
Alien Mojo Crystals (no claim, just a name) that they can keep
for life and beyond?  Did you ever wonder why I have been
studying UFOdom for a few decades and have not written a book?
  Simple, Books Don't Pay. They are the labors of the love of
sharing knowledge. I'd rather make quick cash off of the
ignorance of fools without telling a lie. Not like the time as a
kid when I chopped down the cherry tree and sold expensive
cuttings to all the neighbors. It's OK, I split the pure profit
50/50 with my parents.

I forgot my point. I guess I tried to make it a few paragraphs
back. Oh yea, something to do with the need for better standards
in the UFO field, or something like that. Must be time to head
off into the happy dreams of sleepy hollow. Zzz.


Happy dreams,

Josh









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   May > May 14

             Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hyvonen

From: Minna Hyv=F6nen <minna.hyvonen@kolumbus.fi>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 07:16:05 +0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:11:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hyvonen


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:13:20 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<snip>

 >You wrote:

 >That's true. But that isn't what I was talking about or trying
 >to imply. If a photo or a videotape of of a sighting cannot be
 >considered as corroborative evidence for a sighting report, it
 >begs the question; "Why bother recording the event at all?" I
 >was laboring under the delusion that if I managed to 'record'
 >the events on film or tape that I was doing a 'good thing' (the
 >'right' thing) in order to provide 'corroboration' for the
 >report. The camera is a second witness in my eyes.

I don=B4t agree with you about the claim in your last sentence,
John. Camera isn=B4t a witness, it=B4s only a recorder of the
object. It is a extension of your eye, not another eye. It
records what you order it to record. It is impartial. It shows
what it saw, but in court it can=B4t sware that you saw the same.
It only can tell what it saw.

 >It should be
 >considered as such. According to what I'm hearing, myself and
 >others are simply wasting our time recording these events and
 >wasting our money on expensive photographic equipment.

No no, John, don=B4t lower your "guns" yet. Even you may not catch
the ufo, the hard evidence for the 'presence' of something out
of the ordinary, you may catch something rare, like happened in
Finland. To curious list-members: see the following url. If you
wish the  translation about the text I can ask from UFO-Finland
permit to do so (I=B4m part of the folks there, so I think it
could be arranged). By clicking the pictures you`ll see bigger-
ones.

http://www.ufofinland.net/arkisto/2000/savovalo.html

So John, once again; according to my opinion: your "hobby" of
photos and tapes isn=B4t no-good and worth of nothing - unless
your only motive is to capture - quoting you on the message
dated 9.5.02: "hard evidence for the 'presence' of something out
of the ordinary.UFOs."

 >Please allow me to clarify something.

 >I don't record the events to prove to anyone that "UFOs" are
 >'space ships' being built and piloted by 'aliens' from another
 >world. That is something that Amy and yourself have
 >'interjected' into the discussion. The reason that _I_ record
 >the sightings to is to provide _corroboration_
 >(photographic/visually) for the sighting. (What I saw.)

As we know how difficult it is to researchers sometimes to get
any physical evidence - or material that may become that- I
think it is good thing, that you John evaluate your "cases" and
in that way you are easening the work of the researchers.


Minna H






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   May > May 14

                        1956 Movie 'UFO' and Ruppelt

From: Robert Barrow <robertbarrow@usadatanet.net>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 01:57:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:18:15 -0400
Subject: 1956 Movie 'UFO' and Ruppelt


[Non Subscriber Post]

Hello List Readers,

I've only recently become acquainted with UFO UpDates, and this
is my first and perhaps only message. Some of you might be
familiar with my name, but most will say "who?" I could waste
some space explaining my small relationship with the UFO
subject, but then you would still say "who?" Far better it is to
simply get to the point, but if anybody is all that curious, may
I direct you to the search engine Google.com, where you can just
type in the words, robert barrow ufo, and a few things that have
reached the Internet will pop up.

Back in the late seventies, the formerly outstanding national
magazine OFFICIAL UFO was degenerating into a pathetic rag
filled with sensational stories and extraordinary lies,
allegedly (that old journalist's favorite word, allegedly, can't
begin to cover this statement) by orders of the publishers, in a
desperate attempt to increase circulation via shadow over
substance. Eventually, the same people published another short-
lived UFO magazine, highly inferior right down to the print
quality, and at that point they were so brazen as to actually
illegally reprint articles that I and other writers had already
had published in OFFICIAL UFO under authority of First North
American Serial Rights - essentially, the publishers originally
had only one shot at printing our articles, and then all rights
reverted back to us. Going to court, unfortunately, might have
created more expense and trouble than it was worth.

My final article for OFFICIAL UFO, as fate would have it, was my
favorite, a research project that consumed months. In 1964 or
1965, on some TV late-late show, I had first seen an obscure
1956 United Artists motion picture entitled 'U.F.O' Little
would I know that years later I would write about it.

Listed as a documentary feature-length movie, 'U.F.O' was
indeed something to behold. The acting was, well, the acting was
generally pretty bad, but what struck me most was the concern
for detail. Here was a representation about the early years of
the U.S. government's UFO investigations, unquestionably the
most "open" period for the release of official information on
UFOs that this country has seen to date, and there was more. Not
only did much of 'U.F.O' tell the story of Albert M. Chop's
relationship to the official project, and how it turned him from
skeptic to "believer," but Chop was also intimately involved in
assuring the accuracy of producer Clarence Greene's project.

The role of Chop was played by L.A. newspaper reporter Tom
Towers, an interesting figure in his own right, and the
documentary featured actual UFO witnesses and others playing
their own roles - an historical accomplishment in itself. Also,
while 'U.F.O' is essentially a black & white movie, the
producers insisted on inserting the famous Utah (Newhouse) and
Montana (Mariana) UFO films in their original colors, along with
featuring actual interviews of those who filmed the objects..

Several names that anybody familiar with the early history of
UFOs would recognize had a hand in making the final script as
accurate as possible. Besides Chop himself, Maj. Dewey Fournet
checked every line of the script that involved his role. Radar
expert Wendell Swanson played his own role, and former American
Airlines pilot Willis Sperry was available to describe his
dramatic sighting during a commercial flight.

My research went well over the months, but when I finally got
into the writing stage there was a bone of contention. Former
Project Blue Book chief Capt. Edward J. Ruppelt had also been
closely involved in the film's production. By the time I wrote
the piece, of course, Ruppelt had long been dead, so I really
had to inquire of others as to his role in the project. At that
time, I didn't have access to many photos of Ruppelt, and what I
had seen weren't all that clear, so that left me in a dilemma.
The man playing Ruppelt in the movie, frankly, didn't seem to
look all that similar to the photos; yet, people change. I
finally ended up asking Tom Towers about Ruppelt and whether he
appeared in the movie. Towers responded that Ruppelt impressed
him as a very knowledgeable, kind man, and I assumed from his
other comments that Ruppelt was in 'U.F.O' I blame myself for
either asking the wrong questions or not asking the right ones.

So, this is what I "confirmed" before I finally turned in the
article on the film that would appear in OFFICIAL UFO of
February, 1977. Pleased as I was to see the piece in print, I
still cringe at the issue cover which shows a photo of a sweet
old woman and the headline, "MOTHER SAYS: UFO TOOK MY DAUGHTER
TO ETERNITY - HER LAST MESSAGE!" Clearly, OFFICIAL UFO was
rotting before my eyes.

This would be one of three articles I would eventually write on
'U.F.O' Another appeared in ARGOSY UFO and the third remained
unpublished because of various complications. However, for list
readers who might wish to read the OFFICIAL UFO article, but
sans all the original pictures, Francis Ridge and the people at
the NICAP web site found it informative enough to retype the
lengthy article and place it on the Internet some time ago.
Also, Peter Robbins of UFO City kindly put a link up to the
piece this week. It can be accessed at:

http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/ufochop1.htm

and is in two parts.

A few days ago, however, my old article took on a new meaning. I
made contact for the first time with UFO researcher - and
historian with an incredible depth of knowledge - Wendy
Connors, who List readers know well is involved in the immense
"Faded Discs Archive" project, a long-term goal to convert old
UFO-related recordings to digital format before they are lost
forever.

Wendy, available at her new e-mail address
FadedDiscs@comcast.net, confirmed what I had feared for well
over two decades: Ruppelt did not play his own role. This became
readily apparent when I obtained from her a copy of the book
Wendy wrote with Michael David Hall, Captain Edward J. Ruppelt:
Summer of the Saucers - 1952. Incredible enough as a look into
Ruppelt's private life and work with the official UFO project,
the book also boasts enough photos of Ruppelt himself that there
can be no doubt in my mind that an actor played his role. Wendy
knew this, and also emphasized that Ruppelt was, nevertheless,
very involved in approval of the script's accuracy.

A couple of years ago, MGM Home Video released 'U.F.O' on
videotape, but not on DVD. Wendy indicates that the video sold
very well, so a DVD may be on the horizon, but I urge List
readers supportive of the movie's historical role to write MGM
Home Video (they can be reached online for messages) and ask
that the DVD format be offered.

I also urge one and all to support Wendy's work. When I learned
the extent of her project, I searched the recording catacombs
and found a number of UFO-related audio tapes made for my own
collection which go back to the sixties. A box full of dubbed
cassettes went out to her and she intends to put them on CDs for
posterity. Significantly, in 1980 I had recorded a whole week's
worth of a special UFO series offered live by Rochester, NY's
WHAM Radio, featuring major UFO researchers and witnesses, and
these have all been dubbed. Unfortunately, they weren't recorded
in Rochester, but from WHAM's clear channel signal elsewhere, so
radio interference is evident. To my surprise, I located one of
the co-hosts of that series and he still has at least some tapes
of the show, recorded flawlessly in the studio, and I expect
that he will be offering them to Wendy to replace troublesome
portions from my own collection. The first evening's three-hour
show alone included in-studio guest Betty Hill.

By the way, those 22-year-old tapes include an interview with a
youthful Stanton Friedman, yep, just a kid - of course, I'm
only beating this horse to death because I know he reads this
List. Could _not_ resist...

Frankly, I'm rather out of touch with the UFO subject these
days, so it's good to know that researchers such as Wendy
Connors, Richard Hall and Jerome Clark are still hanging in
there, lending a voice of reason to the seemingly unreasonable.

Well, there I go again, I never know when to shut up. Thanks for
reading, everybody, and best wishes to all. And be sure sometime
to see 'U.F.O' It remains, truly, an unrecognized national
treasure and deserves a unique place in both the history of
cinema and UFO research.


Robert Barrow






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   May > May 14

                       A Tax Plan To (And From) Space

From: William H Evans <whevans032766@juno.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 01:19:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:20:52 -0400
Subject: A Tax Plan To (And From) Space


I don't know if this has been posted to this list or not.  If it has, I
apologize.  I am on too many lists to keep them all straight. <g>

That Wired.com article about the work being done on levitation and
lifters at the Propulsion Lab at NASA reminded me of this one from a
couple of weeks back.

We have our share of talented engineers in this area, and we have our
share of lunatics as well.  Judge for yourself.


Bill Evans
Hartselle, AL

------

Source: Wired.com

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,52124,00.html

A Tax Plan to (and From) Space By Farhad Manjoo 2:00 a.m. April
26, 2002 PDT

To the extent that there has been any public discussion of
Michael Williams, a 28-year-old Alabama congressional candidate
who wants to fund NASA by taxing works of science fiction, two
divergent views have emerged.

The first holds that Williams -- a supermarket bagger by day --
  is a visionary, a man of innovation and wisdom who thinks years
ahead of his time. The second view is less charitable: He's
crazy as a loon. Tax science fiction? What is he thinking?

Williams' plan gained some attention this week when The
Huntsville Times, his local newspaper, wrote a short profile on
him, and the novelty of his ideas propelled the brief article
into the chattering land of weblogs.

Unfortunately for Williams, the opinions expressed so far are
running 3-to-1 in favor of crazy.

But he insists his idea is sensible. Living in Huntsville, home
to NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, Williams says he knows
all too well how the whims of the federal government can
adversely affect a small town: One year there are plans for a
space station, the next year they're cancelled, the next year
they're back on again.

"Because we're such a space area," he said, "anything that
happens in space, we get to know it here. And every year there's
always stories about the space station being cut, or other space
projects being cut. Supposedly, President Bush has decided that
they now are going to have three people up there instead of six
up there."

(The Bush Administration's view is that some of the components
needed to host six people would be too expensive; the space
station is currently estimated to cost about $5 billion more
than the initial estimate.)

Williams holds a masters degree in political science from the
University of Alabama and he's familiar with the exigencies of
the political process. "What you learn when you live in
Huntsville is, nobody wants to fund space," he said. "Nobody's
interested in doing it. The bills in Congress always fail."

Faced with this legislative dead-end, Williams decided to think
innovatively and he had a moment of inspiration. "You live in
San Francisco?" he said during an interview. "So you know about
all the Star Trek conventions. I happened to see the movie about
all those conventions, and it talks about how much money is
spent on all the Star Trek stuff." (Williams is referring to
Trekkies, the hilarious documentary about Star Trek fanatics.)

After watching the movie and looking up some legislative
history, he realized that "taxing the science fiction, you're
actually taxing the interest group of space. They're the ones
who want to go into space and have space expanded and they're
the ones who will actually feel good about spending the money on
space."

Specifically, Williams said he would impose a 1 percent sales
tax on science fiction books, comics, toys and other
merchandise, and even on some space-related books that aren't
fictional. All of the money would go to "fund space."

The idea is not as Twilight Zonish as it sounds, Williams said.
"The U.S. government does have excise taxes on things like
cigarettes or gas. The tax on gas to build highways was actually
first proposed (in the 1960s) by Bob Jones, the former
representative from the 5th district" -- the district in which
Williams is running.

Williams is clearly well intentioned, and the several critics
who commented conceded that. But for at least half a dozen
reasons, people said, this plan is DOA.

First, said Patrick Nielsen Hayden, an editor at the science
fiction house Tor Books, Williams' plan rests on the notion that
it's relatively easy to categorize books as "science fiction."

That's wrongheaded. In an e-mail, Hayden wrote that "the
professional (science fiction) world hasn't been able to come up
with a satisfactory definition of what's 'science fiction' and
what isn't (quick, is Sinclair Lewis' Arrowsmith science
fiction? Is Gravity's Rainbow? How about Star Wars? Why or why
not?)."

"This is like asking people who like murder mysteries to
subsidize the jury system," Hayden added. "I look forward to the
deliberations of the governmental body charged with determining
what would be taxable under such a plan."

When this point was put to Williams, he was perplexed. "That's
one thing I haven't thought about," he said.

After a pause, he added, "But probably the thing to decide it is
when you go to your local Barnes and Noble, and you examine the
books that are on the science fiction rack -- those are the ones
that would be taxed."

So would he tax, say, Jurassic Park, a sci-fi novel that really
has nothing to do with space?

"Well, no," he said. "Probably only the books having to do with
the 'space genre.'"

But Hayden noted that many novels, including C.S. Lewis' Out of
the Silent Planet, is set in space but is philosophical and
theological and not really about such relatively pedestrian
issues as space shuttles and telescopes. Indeed, the best, most
affecting space-related science fiction -- think Planet of the
Apes, for instance, or 2001: A Space Odyssey -- is often only
nominally "about space."

Another concern was raised by science fiction writer Charlie
Stross: Sci-fi isn't a huge business.

"There are about 400 (science fiction novels published in the
(United States) per year, with an average print run of roughly
15,000 copies and a cover price of ... $6," Stross wrote in an
e-mail. "If you taxed them at 1 percent you'd raise all of ...
$0.3M. That's less than 1 percent of the cost of a Space Shuttle
toilet re-fit ($50M)."

To raise something close to NASA's $15 billion annual budget at
this 1 percent tax rate, the sci-fi market would have to be do
$1.5 trillion in annual business. To raise just the $5 billion
that the space station needs to sustain three more guys in
space, annual sales of sci-fi would be around half a trillion
per year.

Even counting all the toys and merchandise that would be taxed,
there's no way sci-fi is big enough to be a windfall for NASA.
As Stross points out, the "entire computer industry -- software
and hardware both -- turns over $600 billion."

Williams conceded that he hadn't done any calculations on the
matter. When he gets into office, he will have the General
Services Administration do the math. But he said he was sure the
amount the tax would raise would be substantial.

There are other ways to raise money for NASA, many of his
critics noted. Cory Doctorow, a science fiction writer, e-mailed
to say: "I betcha that if NASA was to start a tax-deductible
fund for, say, financing a human exploration of Mars, that
they'd get gargantuan quan from starry-eyed science-fiction
people -- especially if there was a lottery that selected a
sacrificial lamb from among the donors to be on the mission."

Williams is undeterred. He said people are always reflexively
against a tax increase, so he isn't surprised that some people
don't like his plan. But he said that he's a science fiction
fan, too.

"I read the Star Wars books, the Star Trek books, and just about
all the Robotech books," he said, adding he wouldn't mind being
taxed, especially if it's for what he calls "the greater good."






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   May > May 14

              UFO Believer Jackson To Appear At ET Music Fest?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:03:51 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:22:47 -0400
Subject: UFO Believer Jackson To Appear At ET Music Fest?


Source: New York Daily News, May 13, 2002,

http://www.nydailynews.com/today/News_and_Views/Daily_Dish/a-150737.asp

Stig

***

Jacko Wants to Do A Real Moonwalk

**

We always thought Michael Jackson was just visiting this planet.
Sure enough, he's hatching a plan to moonwalk on the moon.

Hoping to beat 'N Sync singer Lance Bass and Aerosmith rocker
Steven Tyler into space, His Gloveliness has turned for advice
to pal Uri Geller.

The spoon-bending psychic tells us that when Jackson heard Bass
wanted to join a Russian Soyuz mission, he decided to aim even
higher.

"How can I get to the moon?" Geller recalls Jackson asking him.

Geller says he consulted Apollo 14 moonwalker Edgar Mitchell,
who suggested Jackson start by talking to the Russians about
buying a $20 million seat aboard a rocket to the International
Space Station.

Coming up with that much money could keep Jacko anchored to
Earth, if you believe reports about Jackson's cash-flow
problems. But Gellar says Jackson is already preparing.

"We are training Michael now to have that certain mind power to
be able to complete such a task," says Geller. "We do
visualizations, affirmations, contemplations" =97 whatever that
means.

"I told him he would have to do it all the way," adds Geller.
"He said, 'Yes, yes, let's do it.' =85 He is a very powerful
person, and athletic. His heartbeat at rest is like a runner's =97
42 beats per minute."

While the Neverland Space Program develops, UFO authority
Michael Luckman and his Cosmic Majority are courting Jackson to
take part in the "Out of This World Concert," a one- day
festival that will broadcast music into outer space.

Luckman, who is also wooing "UFO-friendly" stars like David
Bowie, Yoko Ono and funketeer George Clinton for next year's
event, says: "Michael told me last year that he believes in
aliens."

Luckman suspects that one of the goals of Jackson's lunar plan
is to make contact with extraterrestrials. He might even run
into a long-lost relative.

<snip>

Original Publication Date: 5/13/02

Copyright New York Daily News





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 14

                     Re: Fire The Government - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 05:42:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:26:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Fire The Government - Lehmberg


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:54:34 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:43:42 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:01:03 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>>>From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:05:43 -0500
 >>>>Subject: Fire The Government

 >>>>There is a perfectly legal cure.....

 >>>>Fire The Government Petition

 >>>>Our government was set up 226 years ago for an illiterate
 >>>>population that no longer exists. We can wrest control from the
 >>>>government only if we can set aside our petty differences and
 >>>>work as a team.

 >>>Why is it implicitly assumed here that all differences within a
 >>>society are merely "petty"? Oh, well....

 >>...forgetting that government very likely _is_ created for
 >>people that (would?) no longer exist (if they had choices), an
 >>assessment regarding the pettiness of 'most' social differences
 >>is an odds _on_ favorite. Human beings have manufactured
 >>undeniably specious reasons to hate one another over the years,
 >>all of it a dodge for gainful individuals to maintain privileged
 >>positions, influence, control, and power. I think the metaphor
 >>dovetails neatly into our ufological society as well, 90% crap,
 >>5% sociopathic, and only 1 percent actualized.

 >I have snipped the rest of Mr. Lehmberg's ramblings, which
 >amount, entirely predictably, to conspiracy theory, and one even
 >less coherent than most.

Mr. Clark. I think most people on this List understand that mere
proclamations, even well worded ones defining predictability,
dismissing of a theory of conspiracy, or conveniently judging
coherence, are really only so much opinionated air passed
through the throat over humming vocal cords and not the final
word on the matter at all.

 >Conspiracy theories are to real-life politics, history, and
 >current events what pornography is to real-life sexuality - in
 >other words, an extremely distant approximation.

That's quite simply the most ridiculous analogy I've ever heard,
sir. Additionally, it doesn't help your point. If they were
remotely analogous then pornography wouldn't exist, just as you
maintain a conspiracy won't exist. You've already demonstrated
an incomprehensible naivete with your junior G-man admonition
regarding the efficacy of the vote - "vote better people in,"
indeed. I'm not surprised that you'd turn away from obvious
conspiracy existing in a world actually much more complicated
that you'd give it credit for, despite your unctuously
convincing advice on "distant approximations" of apples and
oranges.

 >Both conspiracy
 >theory and pornography, not incidentally, have the effect of
 >discouraging their consumers from becoming responsible, rational
 >adults and functioning in a real, complicated world.

This is forgetting completely that the only reason pornography
exists at _all_ is that a vast number of people are not getting
enough quality sex in this nation of nations so crippled with
sexual ignorance that the Attorney General is moved to cover the
nipple of Justice with a drop cloth, _and_ get away with it!
People are sexually irrational, irresponsible, and non-
functioning not because of pornography, Mr. Clark. They are
those things because they are not getting quality information
from their leadership, clergy, and academic institutions about
sexual matters and pornography is created to fill that void. In
the same manner, and probably for similar reasons regarding
control issues, a lack of quality information about "real life
politics" (an unending subterfuge of pork, duplicity, and stupid
white men), "history" (a heroizing pap of convenient fabrication
according to Dr. James Loewen and Dr. Michael Parenti) and
"current events" (a corporate media facilitated cluelessness
about what's really going on...) leads to valid suspicions
regarding that likelihood of a conspiracy you can't bring
yourself to accept, or a "fringe" created to fill that void you
don't acknowledge.

 >It's
 >easier, of course, to rant about sinister forces rendering all
 >of us into helpless pawns, and laying all human problems on the
 >machinations of behind-the-scenes, all-powerful plotters, than
 >to participate in civic society, inform oneself, weigh
 >difficult, complex issues and choices, make one's voice heard,
 >and vote as an educated citizen.

The real irony here is that I'm not the one living in a dream
world, because the majority _are_ helpless pawns, there _are_
behind the scenes mechanisms, and "all-powerful (above the law)
plotters" are plain. Your pretty speech will contain admonitions
to participate in (a corrupt) society, stay (belatedly)
informed, balance (bogus) issues and (contrived) choices, and
buy into the rubric of voting for one corporate clone or the
other... so I'll continue to make myself heard in my own way,
thanks.

 >Besides being just plain crazy,
 >conspiracy theory is an intellectually lazy way out of actually
 >having to think.

Perhaps besides being just plain naive, dismissing conspiracy
plays right into the hands of the conjectured conspirator and
may be valid evidence of not thinking critically _enough_.

 >There's a splendid recent book on this subject, Robert Alan
 >Goldberg's Enemies: The Culture of Conspiracy in Modern America
 >(Yale University Press, 2001). It contains an illuminating and
 >provocative chapter on conspiracy theories within the UFO world
 >which should be - whether one agrees with every word of it or
 >not - of special interest to ufologists.

I've written a paper showing that conspiracy is not only
possible but likely given the massive number of sociopaths we
have in the population at any one time to prosecute them:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/feb/m07-003.shtml

..."whether one agrees with every word of it or not", it is an
illustration that: if conspiracy _can_ happen - it _will_
happen. Moreover, it has happened, happens now, and will to
continue to happen without a change to the featureless,
orchestrated, and invalid adoration of the self absorbed status
quo.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 14

                     Re: Fire The Government - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 06:09:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:32:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Fire The Government - Lehmberg


 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:31:37 +0200
 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:43:42 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:01:03 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>>>From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:05:43 -0500
 >>>>Subject: Fire The Government

 >>>>There is a perfectly legal cure.....

 >>>>Fire The Government Petition

<snip>

 >Hello Alfred,

 >When Jerry Scovel posted his statement regarding "firing the
 >government" I had a good laugh at that proposition. I was going
 >to post and remark that he may have some valid points but firing
 >the government was so absurd that I almost wrote out my laughs
 >at the idea. I decided not to post anything as I did not want to
 >scoff at him and cause him discomfort.

Well - how fortunate for us all that you have chosen _not_ to
extend that same consideration to me, but (then) when has that
ever stopped you before. [g].

 >Jerry Clark wrote his response and it was more diplomatic than
 >what I had in mind.

Really! I guess we'll never know, even presuming the cant of
your arguable diplomacy.

 >He wrote his opinion and you have written
 >yours. For curious reasons you feel your opinion carries much
 >greater import than Jerry's because your own fixed ideas
 >regarding your beef with the government are supreme in your
 >mind.

That's wild blueberry horse piffle, Mr. Goldstein. My opinion is
my opinion and based largely on the trials and tribulations of
living and working in a 'real' world presumably denied by the
esteemed Mr. Clark, and you, the merely steamed. I don't think
it has any more import or validity than the very highly
respected Mr. Clark's per se, but I think it's more realistic, I
think it's less myopic, and I think it's a lot less forgiving of
the world in which we live. For my part, anyone who does not
have some kind of rational beef with the government as it
presently stands should have their rheumy eyes squeeged, and be
dragged away from 'Survivor' re-runs until they stop mouth-
breathing... but that's just my opinion. [g].

 >For years I have read endless rants and odes of yours
 >regarding your adversarial fears that they control us and don't
 >give the normal citizen a fair shake at democracy. You keep
 >playing the same unchromatic tune endlessly. Please try to
 >expand your repertoire beyond your personal angst. An all beef
 >diet can get damned boring.

...Sorry the "endless rants and odes" don't ring your literary
bell, Mr. Goldstein, truly. I'm sorry the tune is unchromatic to
ears with a specious axe to grind. I'm sorry that you're too
easily bored with a repertoire that doesn't appear to go beyond
"my personal angst" . but I'm also sorry that you think a normal
citizen gets a fair shot at democracy in this country; I'm sorry
that you don't feel that we are under short-sighted corporate
control in this nation, and I'm sorry that "all beef" won't at
least keep you from asking where the beef _is_. [g].

Don't you feel just the least bit part of the problem, Mr.
Goldstein? As it happens, I'll continue to write my conscience,
so perhaps you should consider hitting the delete key when you
encounter one of my contributions and leave the track of my
"endless rants and odes" to the odd few that seem to get
something out of them.

 >Alfred, if you feel so strongly that the government is a
 >tyranny, what are you doing to help make things better?

Well - let's see. For starters, I'm a patriot so I don't put
money in the stock market. I question... everything. I do what I
say I'm going to do. I'm neither a borrower or a lender. I
practice loyalty, fidelity, and what I preach. I give a sucker
an even break. I pay my taxes, honor my mother, and don't bear
false witness. I don't murmur, lie, or gossip. I actively
support an open diverse society as a cultural multiplier, and I
won't use love as the pretence for sex. I could go on... What do
_you_ do? Vote? How earnest.

 >Your
 >rants are so overloaded with clever turns of the word that they
 >miss the point of making a clear and direct.

...and that _is_ a shame. But I'd already reminded you on the
judicious use of the delete key... As to "clear and direct
propositions smothered in clever turns of the word..." .hey! I
enjoy writing, get a lasting satisfaction from it communicated
in every word, and sense some contribution being made. Sue me.

 >Are you
 >involved in national politics and trying to change things to be
 >more fair?

Later on you will chastise _me_ with regard to tilting at errant
windmills. I think it reasonable to submit that you would have
me tilting at the biggest windmill in human history: American
politics, national, regional, and local.

 >Do you participate in local politics to try to give
 >the people of the wiregrass area a fair shake?

Christ in a carry-all, Mr. Goldstein. They won't even let me be
a special-ed teacher in their Wiregrass public school systems
and you'd have me run for one of their offices? What a _great_
way to stop doing what I'm doing now and engage in _real_
futility. Try and get real. 'K? 'K.

 >What are you
 >doing to help bring out evidence that would stand in court
 >regarding UFO cases? Or are you trying to do it all from
 >outside the system by attacking the system?

I was going to comment on this and then realized that you didn't
really _say_ anything. Be that as it may? I attack the "system",
in my way (poetic commentary and critical prose) from outside
because that's where I've been shoved. You'll have to take it up
with persons much like yourself, apparently. These are persons
made uncomfortable by questions, persons too quick to sneer at
criticism, and persons too comfortable with how things are,
presently.

 >Good luck, as the conditions do not exist for that kind of mass
 >movement.

I suppose we have you and yours to thank for that...

 >Or should I see you and a few friends on the news
 >trashing stores and any other convenient targets as you try to
 >bring down in the system.

I was specific about non-violence, Mr. Goldstein, but I won't
buy in to easy tyranny, or step to the rear of _your_ ufological
bus; be very clear about that.

 >What would you put in its place and
 >how would it be run?

That's a dissembling question asked to invalidate qualified
dissent, Mr. Goldstein. I suspect you're not really interested
in an answer to that question (which couldn't be answered here
anyway), but one doesn't really have to have a replacement bulb
to opine how *dark* it seems to be getting, does one?

 >Do you have any positive and constructive
 >ideas beyond "aggressive civil disobedience?

Well - there _has_ been about 360 odes, 15 Odd Observations, and
numerous papers and essays... perhaps you're not really reading
what I've been writing as closely as you've indicated.

 >You mentioned Dan Sheehan. I don't want to knock him but I was
 >active in a Christic Institute project in the '80s regarding
 >Iran Contra. A contemporary search of released documents
 >regarding Iran Contra prove that Dan Sheehan and the institute
 >were molding facts to fit their beef. Offline I can
substantiate
 >that with you if you so desire.

LOL! I guess we owe John Secord and Ollie North an apology. They
were _completely_ justified with regard to their egregious acts,
proliferation of automatic weapons in South Central LA, and the
boom of crack cocaine nation wide... (Gary Webb, "Dark Allience"
in 530 pages and 462 citations). And please, send the info on
Sheehan so we can both see how far I can push it up your nose.
<g>

 >When the last presidential election came down to the wire I was
 >shocked by the close tally and the conditions that prevailed at
 >the time of vote counting. However, numerous independent studies
 >prove that it was very close but no culpable actions took place
 >that would have changed the results. I was for the loser but I
 >accepted that in a democratic election voters may be quite
 >evenly split.

Then you were just another one of the summarily duped, handily
betrayed, and abject distracted, but I don't mean that in a bad
way, I'm afflicted by those things myself.

 >If you look at the present polls regarding what
 >people think of the way the current president is handling
 >things.there is overwhelming support.

Dwindling as we speak, and the shrub was a talent-less pinhead
who lied about UFOs before September 11, and so remains one now.

 >So in a democracy the
 >people speak. Just sitting there ranting and odeing is a Don
 >Quixote method of trying to change things for the better. If you
 >want change try to change things within the party of your
 >choice.

You don't get it, do you. It's all the _same_ party, Mr.
Goldstein. The differences are illusionary and serve to convince
apologists such as yourself that they have an impact on the
system. They (you) don't. Additionally, "Odeing" does it for me
even if it doesn't do it for you. As regards the odes... I'm
really the only one that needs to get *done*, anybody else is
icing on the required cake.

 >There is very little chance of changing it from without,
 >as Ross Perot, Jerry Brown, and Ralph Nader clearly
 >demonstrated. If you don't have a well defined platform based on
 >facts the other candidates do not see with well defined steps
 >for improvement and change, then most people won't be
 >interested. Rants are like Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

Who's tilting? Cervantes wrote with you in mind, not me, hoss.

 >Alfred, in the UFO field many people are working long and hard
 >to research and publish legitimate investigations. For example,
 >I have been lately studying Jerry Cohen's investigations and
 >looking at them in the context of other research on those
cases.

Working long and hard, are you? Working hard or hardly working?
Working hard or working smart?

 >Jerry is only one of many researchers and they keep building
 >ever more complete cases regarding events in the field.

_His_ efforts in the venue are much appreciated, as are the
effortless way he occasionally bitch-slaps your garden variety
skeptibunky. Poetry in motion. I am _very_ impressed with Mr.
Clark, he's one of my ufological heroes... I'm just not going to
take crap from him.

 >I
 >suggest that you stop ranting and look at what you can
 >contribute to help that effort.

I suggest you stop puling your officious, inaccurate, and
authoritarian hoo-rah, and get your third eye flushed and
squeegeed.

 >For example, you have for years put at the end of your posts a
 >request for John Ford to receive donations. Where have you
 >posted the facts regarding his case such as hearing documents,
 >psychological evaluations, etc. so that potential supporters can
 >gain an objective view of his case? Why should they support him
 >without examining the real evidence in his legal case?

CIAC! John Ford became a kind of albatross for me - forgetting
that I was abundantly confident that the BALDLY obvious
injustice of the situation would win him a quick, or at least
_eventual_, release. Wrong on both counts.

John Ford, the reader recalls, was the strident Suffolk county
New York "UFO nut", TOO many years ago now, who "tried to
murder" a political rival, John Powell, by conspiring with two
others to put radium in his household tooth paste. Forget for a
moment that John Ford was very busily, very passionately, and
also very diligently investigating John Powell pursuant to
righteous CORRUPTION AND CONSPIRACY DISCLOSURES involving _key_
agencies of local (Suffolk County, NY) government. Forget that
John Ford's strident investigation was legal, ethical, and
reflective of a man who was a retired officer of the Suffolk
county court system and holder of a College Master's degree.
Forget that after John Ford was thrown in a hole to rot and be
forgotten, the right honorable John Powell pled "no contest" to
CONSPIRACY and RACKETEERING CHARGES with clear links to
organized crime (plus the dangerous disposal of toxic wastes?),
and, to my knowledge spent not _one_ day in jail!

Doesn't anybody _else_ smell the fetid fragrance of that fulsome
fishy flounder? It's apparent you do not, Mr. Goldstein. You'd
only too readily put full faith in the machine that railroaded
him, apparently.

Do the 'facts' of this strange case support anything else
BESIDES the well told American fable of the "little guy" taking
it squarely in the ass for the crass convenience of the "big
guy", and all of this scurrilous activity in DIRECT
contradiction to every precept, ideal, and ethic we're supposed
to hold dear in this nation (and that you have so smugly trotted
out here)? John Ford was, the reader can bet, foully hull-
breached for investigating the activities of a man who
_could_not_bear_ that investigation!

John Ford, accused of conspiracy to murder, and then locked in
an institution for the criminally insane over his belief in the
ufological, is very likely crazy _now_, just under 10 years into
this very likely criminal false imprisonment. It doesn't _help_
that he looks like Elmer Fudd, has a voice like Daffy Duck and
was as stridently litigious as Yosemite Sam is angry and
bellicose... it doesn't _matter_ either! John was likely just
one more easy victim of the criminally arbitrary, a pawn of a
criminal aristocratic elite, and just another crushed bug for
the criminal boss of a corrupt political machine.

But don't get me started - all the info _I_ can find regarding
John Ford is on my site.

 >
 >Alfred, this is just food for thought

... and _inordinately_ non-nourishing, gas producing, and water
retaining. Like literary hydrogenated vegitable oil...

 >but I suggest that you
 >find a practical and pragmatic means to try and effect the
 >changes you desire rather than an all beef diet without the
 >required vitamins.

I suspect that the real vitamins you allude to might give you
more than you think you bargain for. You'd feel like you were
sitting in a bucket of Drain-o. It's a bigger universe than you
allow for here, Mr. Goldstein. Any -beef- you consume passes
largely undigested, I'm guessing. I hope this helps.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 14

                      Re: Fire The Government - Brigham

From: Tim Brigham <TBrigham2@cox.net>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 05:58:31 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:36:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Fire The Government - Brigham


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:54:34 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:43:42 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

<snip>

Your points regarding outlandish conspiracy theories in general
are well taken (I refer here to the views of no one in
particular), but the following is a rather bold statement -

 >Conspiracy theories are to real-life politics, history, and
 >current events what pornography is to real-life sexuality - in
 >other words, an extremely distant approximation. Both conspiracy
 >theory and pornography, not incidentally, have the effect of
 >discouraging their consumers from becoming responsible, rational
 >adults and functioning in a real, complicated world.

... and while not wishing to go off-topic (and in a sense I
don't feel I am, by asking if you are making a statement of
opinion and labeling it as fact), I have to wonder, as one who
has recently had to review the literature on the psychological
effects of pornography, whether you are making a statement based
on some evidence I am unaware of, or whether you are simply
taking some 'literary liberties'. Gee, would that make me a
literary critic? ;)


Best,

Tim







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 15

                       Re: VeriChip Implants - Cameron

From: Cory Cameron <kecksburg@cnwl.igs.net>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:41:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 01:49:20 -0400
Subject: Re: VeriChip Implants - Cameron


 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: VeriChip Implants
 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 01:09:20 +0100

 >You wrote:

 >Hi all,

 >Over the past couple of day's I've been watching a little
 >segment on Sky news (UK) about experiments carried out by a
 >company based in Florida called Applied Digital Solutions
 >Incorporated. Volunteers have agreed to take part in testing
 >something they have developed called VeriChip.

 >VeriChip is quote:

 >"An implantable, 12mm by 2.1mm radio frequency device, VeriChip
 >is about the size of the point of a typical ballpoint pen. It
 >contains a unique verification number. Utilizing an external
 >scanner, radio frequency energy passes through the skin
 >energizing the dormant VeriChip, which then emits a radio
 >frequency signal containing the verification number. The number
 >is displayed by the scanner and transmitted to an FDA compliant
 >secure data storage site by authorized personnel via telephone
 >or Internet"

I find it ironic that abductees have been reporting these types
of tracking devices for at least 25 years. It seems as if we
humans are somehow using technology that has been reported
thousands of times by abductees under hypnosis. This factor may
validate many authors' claims about exchange of human and alien
technology.


Kindest Regards,

Cory Cameron








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 15

             Hubble Telescope: Surprise Tool in Search for Life

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 20:04:48 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 01:51:03 -0400
Subject: Hubble Telescope: Surprise Tool in Search for Life


Source: SPACE.com

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/hubble_exoplanets_020513.html

Visit the page to follow text links!

Stig

***

Hubble Telescope: Surprise Tool in Search for Life

By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer
posted: 07:00 am ET
13 May 2002

**

BALTIMORE - The Hubble Space Telescope, a photographer dear to
more hearts than the late, but very human, Ansel Adams, is
nowhere more celebrated than here inside the Space Telescope
Science Institute (STScI), which operates the telescope for
NASA.

Pinned to a hallway bulletin board is a recent New York Times
editorial lauding Hubble for revealing the distant universe, and
time itself, with "astonishing clarity." The walls of the STScI
are of course plastered with gorgeous posters that testify to
Hubble's reputation as a time machine. Many of the pictures were
made with light that was generated billions of years ago.

Less noticed outside the institute are the unexpected
contributions Hubble has made in characterizing other worlds and
developing solar systems, places where researchers are eager to
look for signs of life.

Hubble has unexpectedly become an astrobiology machine.

Last week, biologists, geologists, chemists, astrophysicists and
planet hunters gathered here to swap ideas about where and how
to look for extraterrestrial life. Steven Beckwith, director of
the STScI, said Hubble is pushing the "astro" of astrobiology.
In one example, the telescope recently revealed the first known
atmosphere around a planet outside our solar system.

"Hubble was not designed to do this," Beckwith said. "The Hubble
Space Telescope was built to do cosmology, not astrobiology."

But the telescope has also emerged as a premier device for
exploring nascent solar systems, dusty disks around stars where
planets like our own might be in the process of forming. It has
found several of these disks, showing them to be ubiquitous,
said Mario Livio, head of the Institute Science Division at
STScI.

The Keck and Gemini observatories in Hawaii, as well as others,
have also begun discovering and examining these dust disks,
which have opened a new window into what our own solar system
might have looked like at birth.


Shortcuts on a long road


Despite Hubble's prowess, several astronomers said it will be
late in this decade before Earth-sized planets are found, likely
by a next-generation telescope called bKepler. The French COROT
mission, which would also look for Earth-sized planets, could
launch in late 2004.

Yet it will be at least 2010 before a another space observatory,
called NGST, explores the atmospheres of extrasolar planets,
possibly revealing whether any of them have the right conditions
to support life.

But astronomers know that breakthrough discoveries have a
history of coming out of the blue.

As one NASA researcher pointed out, few people expected the
ground-based Lick Observatory to discover extrasolar planets. It
has accomplished this feat since 1995 with a creative method
that involves noting how a planet's gravity causes its host star
to wobble. Some 85 of these extrasolar planets have since been
detected. All, however, are too large to be considered
habitable. None have been photographed.

Researchers are eager to come up with creative ways to spot
smaller planets and to probe known planets more fully. Hubble,
outfitted with a more powerful camera in March, is a tool they
were already tinkering with.

As an example, astrobiologists were surprised and elated
recently when researchers used Hubble to find sodium in the
atmosphere of an extrasolar planet. One researcher not involved
in this first detection of an extrasolar planet's atmosphere
called it an "important milestone in exoplanetary science."

The chemical was detected as the planet's orbit took it in front
of its host star, as seen from Hubble's point of view.


Extending a method


This so-called transit method will begin actually detecting
large planets "within the next few years, if not months," said
Ron Gilliland, an STScI researcher who worked on the sodium
detection.

The method might also be used to detect water in a distant
planet's atmosphere. Water is one of the fundamental ingredients
needed for life as we know it.

"That would certainly go a long way toward astrobiology," Livio
said.

Another planned trick could allow Hubble to leapfrog several
long-range plans to accomplish a much sought-after Kodak moment.
Johns Hopkins researcher David Golimowski and some colleagues
will use Hubble's newly installed Advanced Camera for Survey's
in a long-shot attempt to make the first photograph of a planet
outside our solar system.

The approach will involve blocking out starlight so the camera
can record reflected light from an orbiting Jupiter- sized
planet, which would be a billion times fainter.

Researchers will have to come up with something even more
creative if Hubble is to directly answer astrobiology's most
pressing questions -- whether there are other Earths and whether
they have atmospheres that seem conducive to life. Otherwise,
those answers will be credited to other telescopes and won't
likely come for many years.

(Link:) More Astrobiology and Extrasolar Planet News

**

=A91999 - 2002 SPACE.com, inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.







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   May > May 15

              Re: SETI Backers Seek Another Frontier - Agermose

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 20:53:43 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:02:03 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Backers Seek Another Frontier - Agermose


Source: South Bend Tribune, Indiana,

http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2002/05/12/local.20020512-sbt-FULL-A=
1-SETI_backers_seek_an.sto

Stig

**

May 12, 2002

SETI backers seek another frontier

By WAYNE FALDA
Tribune Staff Writer

**

If there are things crawling, walking or swimming on other
planets whirling around stars in our Milky Way galaxy, what
would these life forms look like?

Would they hang on rocks as mere blobs of organic matter? Or
would they have evolved over time to become sentient and perhaps
anguish over their version of the Chicago Cubs?

The search for extraterrestrial intelligence, or SETI, began
with the assumption that alien life forms have reached an
advanced stage of existence.

Would they have sent out signals to reach out to life on other
planets not knowing that millions of years later they would be
receiving "I Love Lucy" or "My Mother the Car" from us?

Over 3.5 million regular people are helping SETI by loaning
their personal computers to conduct complex calculations while
the PC owners are not at the computer screen.

Indiana University South Bend students Jon Darnel and Scott
Marley signed up the school Physics Club computer to contribute
to the cause.

Perhaps it will be the club's computer that analyzes the
unmistakable telltale evidence of an alien signal?

"A lot of people have asked why we are here and what we are
doing here," Darnel said. "Maybe we're here to figure out the
universe."

Having 3.5 million computers whirring on its behalf gives SETI
enough computing power to rival the Pentagon's supercomputers.

"I think it's been a fantastic experiment of supercomputing,"
said Jill Tarter, director of the Center for SETI Research at
the SETI Institute of Mountain View, Calif. "People now
understand the power of distributed computing," she said.

Those people are also inextricably linked to the SETI cause.

Just one signal could change human destiny, Tarter said during a
workshop last week on "Astrophysics of Life" at the Space
Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, the home of the Hubble
Space Telescope.

"It is somebody else's past that we'll learn about," Tarter
said, referring to the millions of years that would have elapsed
since any intercepted signal was sent. "But we would be looking
into the mirror of our future."

For decades, SETI was the only game in town doing something to
search for intelligent life.

No longer.

With the discovery in 1995 of the first extrasolar planet, a
gold rush has begun among scientists to search other worlds for
planets, and not just dead, lifeless planets.

A California group is developing a computer simulation called a
Virtual Planet Laboratory to model what other planets would be
like -- with and without life.

Charles Beichman, chief scientist for astronomy and physics at
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, said a platoon of upcoming
space missions dedicated to the search for distant planets will
scan our local neighborhood to focus on about 250 stars close to
the size of our sun. They will search for "Goldilocks planets" -
- ones like Earth that have the right mass, the right orbit, the
right temperature, the right chemistry to support life.

Space missions beginning in 2005 will start conducting that
star- to-star search.

A prime candidate is 47 Ursa Major.

Around that star swing two larger-than-Jupiter planets in nearly
circular orbit far from the star.

Orbiting stars like 47 Ursa Major, there might be just one
planet with just the right set of conditions. "It is systems
like this that we will eventually learn to target to find
terrestrial planets," Beichman said.

Finding a planet in the glare of a nearby star "is like finding
a firefly next to a searchlight," he said.

One mission designed to tackle the job, the Terrestrial Planet
Finder, will not only attempt to locate those planets as many as
50 light years away but will also analyze their features and
whether they are suitable to support life.

TPF will use an ultra-sensitive piece of equipment called an
interferometer to reduce the star's blinding light by a factor
of more than 100,000.

Mario Livio, a theoretical astrophysicist at the Space Telescope
Science Institute, is astonished by the recent pace of planetary
discoveries.

"Until 1995, we did not know of a single planet outside of our
solar system. We now have 85," he said. "We have detected for
the first time an atmosphere on one of these planets."

Scientists of all persuasions on Earth are mobilizing for what
appears to be a gold rush for Earth-like planets.

"The coming together of all these various sciences - astronomy,
physics, biology, geology, chemistry - is really an incredible
development," Livio said. "It is in this area (planet discovery)
huge breakthroughs are going to happen."

Biologist David desMarais, of the NASA Ames Research Center,
said the standing-room- only crowd at the astrobiology seminar
last week at the Hubble headquarters is proof that mankind at
this stage of its history has begun marshaling "the technical
capability and will and public commitment ... to put us into a
position to make seminal discoveries.

"There has always been a public interest. But 50 years ago,
people had to content themselves with science fiction, the
movies and comic books," he said.

The big push is now on to realize an age-old dream.

"It's not just comic books any more," desMarais said.

**

Staff writer Wayne Falda:

wfalda@sbtinfo.com

(574) 235-6326

**

News coverage and editorial content provided by the South Bend
Tribune unless otherwise specified. Copyright =A9 1994-2002 South
Bend Tribune








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 15

                     Atlanti Retracts Support For 'Reed'

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:19:09 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:14:33 -0400
Subject: Atlanti Retracts Support For 'Reed'


Shawn Atlanti Retracts Support For Jonathan Reed Story

I received the following message from Shawn Atlanti and I am
posting it here for Royce Meyers and all List readers as he now
retracts support for Jonathan Rutter (AKA Reed), however he
lists some provisos that slightly mitigate complete and utter
retraction.....

-----

Shawn Atlanti, Founder and former Director of San Diego UFO
Society, no longer supports or considers the "Alien in the
Forest Encounter" or what is known as the Dr. Jonathan Reed
story to be real. This story occurred in mid-October 1996 in the
Cascade Mtns in Washington state. I became aware of this story
on October 21st, 1996, a few weeks later on November11th,
Jonathan Reed and Robert Raith went on the Art Bell Show and
told their story, they were both on two later shows in 1998, and
I was on another show with them in December of 1999.

Their story and information related to it appears on the
Websites:

www.odysseylink.net

and

www.Aliendestiny.com

Due to more allegations against Jonathan Reed that occurred on
the Jeff Rense radio show on May 2nd, 2002, in which Royce
Myers, Kathleen Anderson, Bill Werner and Denise Charvet appear.

Bill Werner and Denise Charvet knew Jonathan Reed very well
before October 1996, Both stated that his real name is Jonathan
Bradley Rutter and told about information about his personal
history that is contrary to what Jonathan has stated on radio
shows, in public lectures, Websites, etc,

This information is available at the Website

www.ufowatchdog.com

and may be heard in the archive section of the Jeff Rense radio
show at

www.Rense.com

This latest information, along with other related problems the
last 3 and half years, combined with Jonathan Reed/Rutter
unwilliness to have his supposed evidence (video, slides,
pictures, etc,) tested at qualified laboratories or facilities
and those results made public of the analysis in a printed form.
Jonathan Reed/Rutter made a statement just about 3 and half
years ago on the first Art Bell show that he would be open to do
this. So I FINALLY made the decision to drop my support and
belief in the Jonathan Reed story, now really known as Jonathan
Bradley Rutter.

Shawn Atlanti may reconsider the Jonathan Reed story if all of
the following conditions are met:

An investigation of Jonathan Reed/Rutter in what would be termed
Police/FBI styled investigation of the following areas.

1. Complete background check of his employment history,
education, family, close friends, etc,

2. Proof of the dog" Known as Suzy in his story" was Jonathan
Reed/Rutter through Dog Licenses, veterinarian records, etc.

3. The location/address of the house that Jonathan Reed/Rutter
claimed he lived in at the time of this Encounter event, and
proof that he rented it from the so-called Larry Arthur, now
really known as Larry Sieber, and that Larry Sieber really owned
it.

4. Full names of two other characters in his story, Dolly and
Gary, so that they or their familes can be contacted and
interviewed.

5. As stated before; A complete testing of the supposed evidence
from his Encounter experience.(videos, slides, pictures,
negatives, etc,). The results of that testing and anaylsis
published in a written form from the laboratory or facility, and
the address/phone number of that laboratory/facility, so one is
able verify the results.

6. A forensic examination of the supposed gunshot wound in
Jonathan Reed/Rutter shoulder by a qualified Doctor/Pathologist,
and those results made public.

7. There are probably other areas that need investigation, but
these are good for a start.

Many have been claiming the Jonathan Reed story to be a
Hoax/fraud, and I will now have agree with them, unless Jonathan
Reed/Rutter and his associates can prove the above conditions
just listed. I probably should have came to this conclusion a
long time ago, but either due own my proclivity to
procrastinate, my fascination for conspiracy side of the UFO
subject matter, or the gullible side of myself, I have waited
this long to make this decision.

So hopefully in the near future, Jonathan Reed/Rutter will be
out of the UFO business and he can try something else, and we
can bring a little more sanity to the UFO subject.


Regards to all interested and concerned,

Shawn Atlanti

NOTE: This E-mail maybe posted on any website, or E-mailed to any
persons that might be interested--S.A.








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   May > May 15

               Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 19:57:45 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:16:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:27:06 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:08:22 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>When it comes to photoanalysis, Bruce Maccabee's opinon [better,
 >>his carefully reported analyses] are certainly worth a lot more
 >>than Joe Blow off the street. The same applies to those of us
 >>who have spent decades carefully analyzing data versus people
 >>who like to spout opinions from their armchairs.

 >What about those of us who have carefully spent decades spouting
 >opinions from our armchairs?

 >John Rimmer

John,

If you are acknowledging that you are and have been for decades
an armchair opinion-spouter, then our opinions and analyses are
worth a lot more than yours.

Thanks for admitting your deficiencies.


  - Dick








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   May > May 15

                      Hum Rattles Lives In Indiana Town

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:34:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:20:22 -0400
Subject: Hum Rattles Lives In Indiana Town


Kokomo Hum Leaves Massive Wave Of Sickness, Illnesses

Seems like there's got to be more to this than simple 'noise
pollution,' don't know what sort of mystery noise would cause
such sickness...?

- KY

---

Constant hum rattles lives in Indiana town
The Cleveland Plain Dealer
05/12/02

Brian Albrecht
Plain Dealer Reporter

Kokomo, Ind.

- Fear ripples in silent, invisible waves in this small factory
town surrounded by green horizons of corn.

People say pulses of low-frequency sound are pounding
neighborhoods with an unseen fist; making them hurt, making them
sick.

They say their houses crack and vibrate from the same mysterious
force that drives spikes of pain through their eyes and ears,
bones and joints; churns their guts in bouts of diarrhea and
nausea; robs them of sleep and nearly their sanity; wakens their
children in the middle of the night with bloody noses.

Truck driver Billy Kellems says there are days when he can sit
on his back patio and watch dead leaves dance on the ground,
"cracking and popping like butter in a skillet."

Postal worker Scott Wenger wearily recites a long list of health
problems that have sapped the life from his family, sighing,
"Once, we actually used to smile and laugh, have fun and feel
like doing things."

They, and others in this city north of Indianapolis, blame a
phenomenon called "the Kokomo Hum."

It's a catchy title, though somewhat of a misnomer.

There is a nearly continuous noise that can be heard in some
parts of town; a muted rumble that sounds like a train or truck
engine idling in the distance, or the muffled roar of a far-off
furnace.

Yet what you can't hear accompanying this noise - a sound beyond
the range of human hearing - is what really hurts, according to
residents who say they have been sickened by this force during
the last three years.

The number of complaints reached a point last month where the
city authorized $100,000 for investigating the mystery, despite
the small number of people who say they're affected (about 100
in a community of 47,000), and the skepticism of some residents
about this expenditure and whether the hum exists.

But for those who say they've endured the hum, that $100,000
offers a glimmer of hope. "At least the city is finally
acknowledging that there may be something to it," says Scott
Wenger's wife, Penny.

"It's legit. It makes sense, and it's here."

Investigation abroad

Actually, it's almost everywhere. Low-frequency, or infrasound,
waves are those falling below 20 hertz (humans can hear sounds
from 20-20,000 hertz) and can are capable of traveling thousands
of miles.

They can be generated naturally by earthquakes, avalanches,
waterfalls, volcanic explosions, hurricanes and tornadoes.
Whales and elephants use infrasound to communicate, and the low-
frequency pitch accompanying a tiger's roar can temporarily
paralyze its prey.

Man-made infrasound is produced by explosions, or large
machinery including power-generating plants. Infrasound-
detection technology is used to monitor violations of nuclear
test ban treaties.

The possible effect of infrasound on human health has been
investigated abroad for many years, prompting creation of such
groups as the Low-Frequency Noise Sufferers Association in
England.

But Dr. Scott Masten, staff scientist at the National Institutes
of Environmental Health Sciences, cautions that lab tests may
not apply to a communitywide infrasound problem - of which few
have been documented. Two of the more widely reported cases of
unidentified low-frequency "hums" blamed for inflicting health
problems have been in Scotland and Taos, N.M.

In 1999, the hum came to Kokomo - named for a Miami Indian chief
and the self-described "city of firsts," for the first
commercially constructed automobile, pneumatic rubber tire,
canned tomato juice, push-button car radio and "Old Ben," the
world's largest steer (4,270 pounds), whose mounted carcass is
displayed in a local park.

Today, this factory/farm tradition continues in a city dominated
by such industries as a huge DaimlerChrysler transmission plant,
the world headquarters of the Delco division of Delphi
Automotive, and Haynes International, maker of high-performance
alloys for jet engines and power turbines.

Folks who work and live in the town are "pretty much level-
headed, salt-of-the-earth people," says Lisa Hurt Kozarovich,
who has written a series of stories about the hum for the Kokomo
Tribune.

"That's probably why they're having a difficult time with this
[hum], because it is something strange and unusual," she says.
"They can't see it, smell it or touch it, so it raises questions
like, How can a noise make you sick?' "

To those living with the hum, how it occurs doesn't matter as
much as when it will end.

Since the hum started three years ago, Maria McDaniel said, she
and her husband, Billy Kellems, 36, and two sons, ages 11 and
17, have suffered sleeplessness, headaches, diarrhea, nausea,
aching joints and nerves rubbed raw.

The noise and vibrations are stronger at night but diminish on
weekends, leaving them irritable and disoriented, like a bad
hangover, McDaniel, also 36, says.

Certain parts of the house are affected, with continuous
cracking and nails vibrating from walls in some areas, feelings
of dizziness and vertigo in others. "Don't sit in that chair,"
Kellems, warns a visitor. "Nobody sits in that chair anymore.
Anybody who does has to go to the bathroom five minutes later."

And yet the worst part about the hum, Kellems says, is
wondering, "What's it doing to you when you can't sense it?"

About a mile east of their house, much the same sicknesses and
aches have plagued Penny and Scott Wenger and their four
children, ages 5 through 18. Scott Wenger, 43, describes the
debilitating effect of the hum as "like standing under a
fluorescent light that's flickering, about ready to go out. It
just gets on your nerves."

Wenger and others who say they're affected by the hum tell of
TVs and household appliances turning themselves on and off,
light bulbs frequently burning out or exploding, and cell phones
malfunctioning.

Wenger says he's had the house checked for gas leaks, radon,
sewer gas, carbon monoxide and black mold. All tests were
negative.

Medical tests also have become a way of life for some families.
Evelyn Floyd, 45, estimates that she has spent nearly $8,000
beyond insurance coverage on examinations and medications for
pain and depression caused by the hum.

She and her husband, Tom, 37, moved to a new house after she was
gripped in her own, personal earthquake in 1999 - "a sudden
vibration, shooting up my legs and spine, that shook me like a
rag doll." She says it left her with lingering ailments
including muscle cramps, headaches and loss of memory.

The move didn't help. She says she still hears the sound, feels
the invisible pressure, and her husband can't shake a constant
ringing in his ears.

"Some people look at you like you're nuts. It makes me mad,"
Floyd says. "I am not a fruitcake. I am not nuts."

It's a familiar reaction to Diane Anton, 51, who has waged an
aggressive campaign for public awareness and government
investigation of the hum. She even hired private engineering
firms to test for infrasound at her house. Those tests indicated
that a nearby factory could be the source of the sound.

Initially, the response of residents and officials to her
campaign was frustrating, Anton says. "Everyone was trying to
say I wasn't normal, that I was just hearing or feeling things
that weren't there, questioning my mental health," she says.

In late 1999, her headaches, nosebleeds, aching joints and
chronic diarrhea became too much to handle. After working for 30
years at Delco, Anton took early retirement and moved to South
Bend, about 90 miles from Kokomo. "I feel better here than I did
there," she says.

She left behind the house she had built in 1996; her $200,000
"dream house." It now sits empty and abandoned. It isn't for
sale. "I can't do that to anybody else. My conscience won't
allow me," she says. "Would you like to be the one I sold it
to?"

Government inaction

The government intervention that Anton pushed so hard to get has
been hindered by a lack of funds, expertise and equipment,
officials say.

"This is a phenomenon beyond our expertise," says Kris Conyers,
the County Health Department administrator. "We don't have
anything to put our hands on, no data that says this is a
problem and what's causing it."

An Indiana State Department of Health report in 2000 regarding
Anton's complaints found a sound "not considered normal for
residential neighborhoods," and said the factory identified by
Anton's consultants could be a source.

But the report also concluded that there was no evidence to link
the sound with anyone's health problems.

Subsequent state Health Department requests for federal
investigation of the hum went nowhere. Both the Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention and U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency could offer no help.

Kokomo's recent authorization of $100,000 to study the hum
represents both a financial and philosophical commitment,
according to Ken Ferries, city attorney. By authorizing the
money, "the city accepts that there is something worth looking
into," he says.

"The outcome could be, yes, there is a problem, or it could turn
out to be nothing," he says. "I think folks would like to know,
once and for all."

Some have already made up their minds. A recent contributor to
the Kokomo Tribune's "Sound Off" column wrote: "I can't believe
the mayor is going to spend $100,000 to appoint a committee or
someone to study the so-called mysterious hum that residents say
is causing them health problems. . . . What a waste of money."

That isn't an uncommon sentiment, says Kozarovich, local writer.
"It's a problem because most people don't hear it at their homes
and find it hard to believe," she says. "Some people say they
[noise sufferers] are just looking to sue somebody."

More tolerance

Though not necessarily the same situation in terms of a health
mystery, Kokomo is the community that in the mid-1980s made Ryan
White - who contracted AIDS from his treatment for hemophilia -
  the national poster boy for AIDS prejudice and intolerance.

The 15-year-old was banned from public school, someone fired a
bullet through the Whites' front window, and when the family ate
in restaurants, their plates and silverware were thrown out.

Nowadays, however, many residents are considerably more tolerant
of those who say they have been afflicted by the hum. Residents
who haven't heard it nevertheless empathize with those who say
they have.

Teresa Hudson, 43, who helps run a convenience store in the same
area of town where several of the noise complaints originate,
says some of her customers talk about having similar health
problems. "They're mirroring the same symptoms, and what they're
experiencing is not just in their imagination," she says.

Those who hear and feel the hum say their numbers would be
greater if others like them weren't reluctant to come forward.
They say there's a fear of being ridiculed or criticized; or of
lawsuits that could be brought by sound-sufferers against local
employers, costing jobs in this strong union town.

Billy Kellems denies seeking financial gain from his family's
plight. "It's not about a lawsuit. Keep your damn money. Just
give me back my happiness," he says.

So why not just move?

It's a common question, Kellems says. But he and his wife
believe the problem isn't unique to Kokomo, and this is as good
a place as any to make a stand. "Kokomo is known as the city of
firsts, so why not be the first to figure out what's going on?"
he says. "If that's our motto, let's live by it."

Yet he and others wonder just what kind of community they will
wind up with as a result of the hum.

"Is this going to keep our children from being able to have
kids?" asks Scott Wenger. "Is this going to be a community so
burned out from lack of sleep that it'll go nuts?"

The future is as uncertain as the present. For the moment, they
can only endure and hope that someday the hum will end.

As Kellems says, "Right now, hope is all we got."

For information about noise pollution, the Noise Pollution
Clearinghouse has a list of Web sites at: www.nonoise.org

Contact Brian Albrecht at:

balbrecht@plaind.com, 216-999-4853







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                         New At SHG And Project 1947

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 18:11:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:27:54 -0400
Subject: New At SHG And Project 1947

Wendy Connors' Faded Disc Archives at SHG

The Sign Historical Group (SHG) is pleased to announce the
addition to it's inventories of significant UFO collections
Wendy Connors' Faded Disc Collection:

http://www.project1947.com/shg/connors/index.html

Specializing in the preservation of early historic recordings
and photographs dealing with UFO phenomena, Faded Discs is one
of the largest repositories of rare recordings and photographs
from the period 1947 to 1973.

Currently all recordings held at Faded Discs are being
transferred to CD to ensure better quality and longevity, and
photographs are being scanned to CD Rom.

Donations of old recordings, film slides and photographs dealing
with the cryptoaeronautic phenomenon are always welcome and
appreciated. Almost all recordings and photos are available to
researchers for a small fee, which assists in keeping the
resources at Faded Discs available to interested parties. Please
contact Wendy for availability of research materials.

Wendy can be contacted at:

fadeddiscs@comcast.net

or by writing to:


Wendy Connors
P.O. Box 8552
Albuquerque, NM 87198

Audio Archives

http://www.project1947.com/shg/connors/audiodisc.html

Photo Archives

http://www.project1947.com/shg/connors/photolist.html

Wendy has done extensive work both in collecting photographs and
transferring and preserving audio media. I personally can tell
you that she has worn out beyond repair several reel to reel
tape recorders. We at SHG highly recommend that researchers with
audio material loan them to Wendy so the audio material may
become part of a permanent archive. Wendy also is able to
recover and enhance audio material which has deteriorated due to
age. Donations of equipment, blank tapes and/or cash are also
welcome, as these are always expenses with such projects.

An overall view of Wendy's total collection is available in the
Proceedings of Sign Historical Group-UFO History Work Shop on
line at:

http://www.project1947.com/shg/wonline.htm

Project 1947 and Project Silver Bug

When Bill Ralls and Glenn Joyner gaves us their research on
Project Silver Bug

http://www.project1947.com/fig/sb/silverbu.htm

they also gave us some strange photographs of a device which
looked nothing like the proposed project aircraft. This stange
device may be viewed at:

http://www.project1947.com/fig/sb/sb_photo.htm

Thanks to some help by Joel Carpenter the story of these
photographs may now be found at

http://www.project1947.com/fig/1955a.htm

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135








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              Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 20:29:23 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:31:56 -0400
Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -


 >Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:10:58 -0600
 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >Subject: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

<snip>

 >One of the programs he wrote and produced in 1952 was a 15
 >minute program entitled, 'Things From The Sky'. It was an early
 >overview of the flying saucer phenomenon dramatized for the
 >Armed Forces Radio Service listeners.

<snip>

 >But more
 >importantly, it relates the Roswell incident and the recovery of
 >a flying disc and bodies. Perhaps one of the earliest mentions
 >of the Roswell incident since the brief newscasts of 1947.


Greetings Wendy!

Many skeptics argue that the Roswell UFO crash incident with its
references to alien bodies is a later embellishment by authors
or reseachers of dubious credibility that was originally based
on Frank Scully's account in his 1950 book 'Behind the Flying
Saucers'.

If John Keel's 1952 broadcast does indeed make direct reference
to the Roswell UFO crash incident and alien bodies, then the
skeptics will be shown to have been wrong (again).

Does Keel's radio broadcast actually mentions about a crashed
flying saucer and bodies recovered in Roswell, New Mexico?


Nick Balaskas








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                        CI: 05-15-02 'Cydonia Hilton'

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 21:32:12 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:34:58 -0400
Subject: CI: 05-15-02 'Cydonia Hilton'


The Cydonian Imperative
05-15-02

The "Cydonia Hilton"... Taking Reservations?
by Mac Tonnies

See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

Another strange formation has been added to Cydonia's roster of
anomalies. Known alternately as the "Cydonia Hilton" and the
"Dragon's Teeth," the new feature is a ruler-straight collection
of approximately five rectilinear shapes carved into a mound in
the vicinity of the City Square.

[image]

The "Cydonia Hilton." Image courtesy Keith Laney.

Perhaps more than any other anomalous formation on Mars, the
Cydonia Hilton's band of discreet structures is reminiscent of a
strip-mall or self-storage shelter. But the Hilton's geological
context precludes naive terrestrial analogy. In my opinion, the
feature's elevation and proximity to proposed arcologies such as
the Main City Pyramid and Fort argue for a contextual
interpretation in which the Cydonia enigmas are viewed as a
complex, rather than as a collection of unrelated features.

While I'm tempted to consider the Hilton in architectural terms,
natural explanations should be evaluated. What geological
process could produce the Hilton? It doesn't seem to be fault in
any recognized sense . Even if the individual cubes are ice
deposits, one must explain how they came to be arranged so
precisely.

As the first such "strip-mall"-like anomaly discovered on Mars,
the Hilton's function (if artificial) is fascinating to consider
from an engineering perspective. The "cubes" could be large
doorways designed to allow the hypothetical "Martians" access to
the planet's surface. (After all, if the Face is artificial, the
civilization responsible for it would have needed somewhere to
live.) The obvious implication--that portions of the City area
are at least partially hollow--is supported by evidence of a
deep chasm on the Face's damaged eastern side as well as the
Fort's unusual imploded appearance, suggestive of an inward
collapse.

It's likely that the Hilton's high elevation has spared it from
being completely obscured by airborne dust. Features of
comparable size, if they exist at lower elevations, may well
have been eroded into invisibility or else hidden under a cloak
of Martian soil in the millennia since their construction.

Speculation aside, the Cydonia Hilton offers its own mute
challenge to planetary SETI: natural or artificial, what is it
doing in "downtown" Cydonia? And if by some chance it is
artificial, what are its archaeological implications?

Along with the "Draftsman's Triangle" (discussed above), the
Cydonia Hilton is an ideal target for the 2005 Mars orbiter
camera.

-end-








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                'Strange Days... Indeed' - The Radio Program





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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 01:02:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:39:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:08:22 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 03:30:16 -0500

 >>Some people may consider photographs of UFO's as "hard evidence"
 >>while others may not. It all depends on what each individual
 >>considers as "evidence" as well as "hard evidence". Let's face
 >>it, there are no clear guidelines or criteria for establishing
 >>whether or not a photograph of an alleged UFO is genuine or
 >>fake. At best all we have are the analyses (opinions) of those
 >>we trust to tell us what they think a photograph is or is not
 >>based on their background and abilities in the art of
 >>photoanalysis.

 >>There are no machines or computers that we can put these
 >>photographs through to determine, beyond doubt, which images are
 >>real and which are not. I wish such a machine existed but it
 >>does not.

 >>So the bottom line is there is no way to prove a photograph is
 >>genuine or fake and no way to prove an image is of a genuine UFO
 >>or a hoax. If there were a way to prove these contentions, this
 >>List would have solved these mysteries long ago.

 >Amy,

 >The fallacy of your argument is that science or scientific
 >method never 'proves' anything. All conclusions are tentative
 >and subject to constant review.

Richard,

One cannot _prove_ anything. This IS the basic premise of
scientific method. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone can "prove" an
image is of a genuine UFO anymore than anyone can "prove" there
are aliens in that UFO. The best we, as researchers, can do is
present our analyses, data and evidence supporting our
contentions. Whether others agree or disagree is up to each
individual. But one cannot _prove_ anything in an infinite and
varied universe because what may seem like "proof" may be
relative to the reality in which that "proof" is perceived and
that reality may not be the only reality.

 >But if you are seriously arguing
 >that anyone's opinion is equally valid with that of anyone else,
 >I respectfully but strongly disagree.

Nope, never said that.

I said, "At best all we have are the analyses (opinions) of
those we trust to tell us what they think a photograph is or is
not based on their background and abilities in the art of
photoanalysis."

Some people are more qualified, like Dr. Maccabee and Jeff
Sainio, to analyse photographs and I give greater weight to
their opinions because they have been trained and have
experience in photoanalysis. I have called on them for their
analyses in several cases and have found them well qualified and
very professional.

And in the future, should new information come to light, these
learned gentlemen would be the first to evaluate and analyze all
components without bowing to pride or ego needs that seem to
plague so many in the UFO community.


A. Hebert







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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 02:33:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:41:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:13:20 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 00:03:13 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:26:07 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >>>>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 01:37:42 -0500

 >><snip>

 >>>>No matter how much analysis is conducted or by whom there is no
 >>>>way to _prove_ an image is either genuine or a hoax/fake. The
 >>>>best we can achieve is opinion based on analyses conducted by
 >>>>others whether they are "photographic experts" or otherwise.
 >>>>Whether these opinions are accepted or rejected depends largely
 >>>>on each person's opinion of the "expert's" qualifications to
 >>>>render an accurate analysis. So, ultimately, it all boils down
 >>>>to opinion.

 >>>If that's true, then there's very little "hard evidence" for
 >>>anything and much of established science boils down to a matter
 >>>of opinion. For instance, I'd consider fossils as (literally)
 >>>hard evidence supporting evolutionary theory, but fossils _can_
 >>>be faked, as was proven by the Piltdown Man hoax. Taking their
 >>>cue from that incident, creationists deride the fossils of the
 >>>first bird-like reptile, Archaeopterix, as the "Piltdown
 >>>Chicken." Photographs are hard evidence even if in general they
 >>>can be faked, just as fossils can be.

 >>Amy has the jist of it. It took me many years to realize it, but
 >>the bottom line is this: a photo a UFO does not make.

 >That's true. But that isn't what I was talking about or trying
 >to imply. If a photo or a videotape of of a sighting cannot be
 >considered as corroborative evidence for a sighting report, it
 >begs the question; "Why bother recording the event at all?"

On May 9, 2002, you wrote, "I would like a clearer definition of
the role that photographic evidence plays in establishing the
reality of the presence of UFOs on our world. And let's leave
aside any consideration of who is building and piloting these
craft or where they may be from. Let's just speak of the
photographs as evidence that real and solid, unknown, objects
are circumnavigating our skies. Any takers?"

I thought you were interested in a general discussion of what
role photographs play in investigations and the study of UFO's.

Perhaps you are asking why your sightings, photographs and video
tapes are not given more credit or consideration than has been
received to date?

Is this what you are trying to say, John?

If so, I'm sorry, I cannot answer that question.

You can become frustrated and bitter about your work if it seems
to go unrecognized but it won't change the reasons why you do
it. You may consider chunking it all out the window and moving
on with your life but it won't change the feelings in your
heart. Nor will it answer the nagging questions that caused you
to begin your work in the first place.

It's a personal quest, John, and one in which you must endeavor
alone. No one has the answers you seek. No one can prove the
validity of your encounters but you to yourself. No amount of
recognition or acknowledgement will provide what you seek... for
it can only come from within.


A. Hebert







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             Washington's Budget Cuts Put Europa Mission On Hold

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:57:50 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:46:46 -0400
Subject: Washington's Budget Cuts Put Europa Mission On Hold


Source: Los Angeles Times,

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-000033926may13.story?coll=la%2Dnews%2Dsci
ence

Stig

***

May 13, 2002

**

K.C. COLE: MIND OVER MATTER

*

Science's Esoteric Dreams Yield to Missiles, Medicine

*

Particle physicists are depressed. So, too, are planetary
scientists. A recent string of science budgets streaming from
Washington threatens to defer their dreams of exploring both
inner and outer space.

"So what?" you might ask.

The research they do is admittedly speculative, esoteric,
impractical. It costs millions - sometimes billions - of
dollars. Dollars that are urgently needed for the government's
wars on terrorism, cancer, drugs. Who needs dreamers in a time
of tangible terror? Far-out research when so many down-to-Earth
matters need attending?

In the current climate, it's perhaps not surprising that
missions to Pluto and Jupiter's moon Europa have been put on
hold. Even though postponing the trip to Pluto means giving up a
chance to visit the last unexplored planet in our solar system
for at least 100 years. Even though strong evidence suggests
that Europa holds an ocean under its ice - making it a good bet
to yield the first sign of extraterrestrial life.

It's also not unexpected that funding would be steadily reduced
for particle physics, that branch of science that unravels the
innards of atoms - the ultimate in navel gazing. In February,
director of the U.S. Office of Science and Technology Policy
John Marburger - former head of a particle physics lab himself -
  called the frontiers of astronomy and particles both "remote
hinterlands" that were "no longer very relevant to human
affairs."

The folks at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in
Batavia, Ill., were aghast. "Remote hinterlands?" exclaimed Judy
Jackson in the in-house paper FermiNews. "[And] these words come
from a friend of particle physics."

Reflecting Marburger's attitudes, the 2003 science budgets are
all about "missiles and medicine," as insiders call them - with
huge increases going to support research in the Department of
Defense and the National Institutes of Health.

But here's the odd thing: It's the dreamers in their hinterlands
who often come up with the most practical inventions of all:
those most relevant to human affairs.

Take that terrorist with the little black mustache who committed
genocide and came within an arm's reach of taking over the world
not so long ago. He might have won had he managed to develop his
atomic bomb. One reason he didn't was that nearly all the German
and Austrian "dreamers" had fled to the United States.

Just look at the physicists behind the U.S. atom bomb: They were
a bunch of fuzzy-headed, highfalutin intellectuals - engaged in
spectacularly impractical research.

Robert Oppenheimer was a theorist who explored black holes.
Albert Einstein came up with the famous theory that showed you
could get energy from matter (E=mc2) while daydreaming about
what it would be like to ride along on a light beam.

So much for missiles. What about medicine? One can't begrudge
funding medical research that ultimately helps everyone (well,
everyone who can afford to pay). But where do PET scans and
magnetic resonance imaging and laser surgery come from?

You guessed it: dreamers! Magnetic resonance sprang right from
the innards of atoms, lasers from quantum mechanics; PET scans
rely on antimatter. No one had practical technology in mind when
these discoveries were made.

It would be unfair to stop with fuzzy-headed physicists. There
are fuzzy-headed biologists doing the same sort of work.
Tramping around the jungles looking for new species no one will
ever keep as pets or use for food or carrying loads. Most of
their discoveries are tiny insects and obscure plants.

Surprisingly often, these finds from the "remote hinterlands" of
biology lead directly to new medicines or new understanding of
disease.

This particular lesson was brought home in a big way last week
when Japanese computer scientists left their U.S. counterparts
in their dust.

According to the New York Times, the Japanese have produced a
computer more powerful than the 20 fastest U.S. computers
combined. They developed it while trying to understand climate
change, modeling weather and earthquakes and global warming.

The United States, meanwhile, has been developing computer power
primarily to model weapons. And look what happened.

"These guys are blowing us out of the water," one U.S. scientist
said. Another called the situation "Computenik" - referring to
the astonished American response when the Soviets launched
Sputnik in 1957. Back then, tremendous resources were suddenly
poured into science education. Not this time. Instead, millions
of dollars previously earmarked for math and science education
have recently been stripped from a federal education bill.

It is part of our Puritan ethic that work should have a clear
purpose. Journeys should have destinations, efforts clear ends.
There's no room for leisurely wandering, pointless wondering:
What would happen if ... ? What's out there? In here?

Alas, this ethic simply does not serve science, where seemingly
aimless exploration is often the most fruitful of all.

Puritan ethic or no, there's nothing idle about scientific
curiosity.

*

K.C. Cole can be reached at kc.cole@latimes.com.

**

If you want other stories on this topic, search the Archives at
latimes.com/archives.

Copyright 2002 Los Angeles Times







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                               Odds On Aliens

From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:29:14 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:50:32 -0400
Subject: Odds On Aliens


Source: Nature

http://www.nature.com/nsu/020513/020513-3.html

Odds on aliens
One in three planets like Earth probably harbour life.
14 May 2002

PHILIP BALL

Chances are we are not alone.
=A9 NASA

If there are other planets like Earth out there, at least one in
three probably harbours life, say two physicists in Australia.
If life can arise on planets unlike ours, then the odds on
finding life are even more favourable.

Charles Lineweaver and Tamara Davis of the University of New
South Wales in Sydney argue that, despite our sample of
habitable planets being but one, we are not as ignorant about
life elsewhere as it might seem.

We can glean important knowledge from the fact that life on
Earth seems to have evolved very quickly, say the pair.
According to the earliest fossil records, life took no more than
about half a billion years to gain a foothold, once the
planetary conditions were amenable. This time scale might
actually have been much less - even instantaneous in geological
terms.

This rapidity tells us that the probability of life developing
on an Earth-like planet is high, Lineweaver and Davis reckon. If
a gambler wins the lottery within the first three days of buying
tickets, it is likely, although not certain, that the chance of
winning is high. The fact that "we won soon after life became
possible on Earth", say the researchers, points to there having
been a good chance of life developing.

Several unknowns might demolish the researchers' statistical
argument. For example, life may have to develop rapidly if it is
to develop at all. Then we are back to knowing nothing from our
sample of one. Or Earth may be more finely tuned to nurturing
life than we think - a truly habitable planet may have to be not
just similar to Earth but virtually identical.

It is also possible that life might appear on planets that are
radically unlike Earth. In this case, the researchers'
optimistic conclusion represents a minimum probability, making
life elsewhere even more likely.

The Drake equation

Lineweaver and Davis used the geological record of life on Earth
to pin down a key unknown in a famous formula that calculates
the likely fraction of stars in our galaxy on which life has
appeared1.

Called the Drake Equation, the formula was devised by astronomer
Frank Drake in 1961. It summarizes all the factors involved in
the likelihood of our detecting signals broadcast by an
intelligent alien civilization.

Lineweaver and Davis considered a simpler version of the
equation, which asks merely what proportion of stars have
evolved any kind of life, not necessarily intelligent. This
question can be broken down into three parts: what fraction of
stars have planetary systems, what fraction of those planetary
systems contain a habitable planet, and on what fraction of
those habitable worlds life has actually appeared.


NASA's Terrestrial Planet Finder will scan for Earth-like extra-
solar planets

In the past decade, astronomical observations of planets around
stars other than our own sun have started to tell us about the
first two terms in the equation. NASA has just announced a new
programme called the Terrestrial Planet Finder (TPF), which will
use Earth-based astronomy to scan for Earth-like planets outside
our Solar System. The design of the TPF mission will be
finalized in 2006.

But it is the mysterious third factor that Lineweaver and Davis
have put a figure on - the fraction of habitable worlds on which
life has actually appeared. Some scientists argue that it is
extremely small; others contend that life is virtually
inevitable on any potentially habitable world - that the
fraction is very close to one.

For Earth-like planets that are older than about a billion years
(Earth is about 4.5 billion years old), this fraction is indeed
probably close to one, say the duo. They think there is a high
probability that it is at least 0.33.

This doesn't in itself mean that life elsewhere is very likely,
however. Quite apart from the assumptions that the researchers
have made, we don't yet know the other terms in the equation.


References

1. Lineweaver, C. H. & Davis, T. M. Does the rapid appearance of
life on Earth suggest that life is common in the Universe?.
Preprint, (2002).




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                   Extraterrestrials Created Life On Earth

From: SHnSASSY1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:30:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:57:09 -0400
Subject: Extraterrestrials Created Life On Earth



http://ufos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=3Dhttp://www.100megsfree4.=
com/farshores/

Posted May 14.02
Extraterrestrials Created Life On Earth,
Says Alabama Lecturer
[Original headline: He peacefully awaits the aliens' return]

Extraterrestrials created life on Earth, says UAH lecturer who
follows Raelian beliefs

A middle-aged white man wearing a raincoat came to the doorway
of the downstairs conference room in the Huntsville-Madison
County Public Library and peeked inside on a mid-March evening.

"What kind of meeting is this?" the lecture-shopper asked.

The tall, serene man wearing a large, circular pendant told him,
"It is a seminar on the Raelian Movement."

Damien Marsic, the lecturer who is also a biotechnology
doctorate student, added that Raelians believe all human life
was created 25,000 years ago by extraterrestrials who will come
back to Earth once an embassy has been built by their followers.

The man in the raincoat looked at a table full of literature
briefly - just long enough to be polite but not so long anyone
would think he was actually intrigued. He mumbled something then
left.

Marsic, who almost always wears jeans and black canvas high-top
basketball shoes, is accustomed to that response. It doesn't
upset him, because one of the most basic tenets of the
religion/philosophy is peace and free dom of choice.

"I don't like fanaticism," said Marsic, 37, who offers seminars
at the library every couple of months. "I don't impose my ideas,
but I don't hide them either. And I'm open to discussion. But
after many discussions, many years of searching, I honestly
believe that the Raelian Movement is the closest thing to the
truth that I've seen.

"I present information that makes sense to me, and you will do
with it what you choose to do."

Marsic is from France. He came to the United States to pursue a
Ph.D. because in France he was considered too old. There, he
said, the government pays for all higher education and even
provides money for living expenses. But if you aren't enrolled
in a doctoral program by age 27, you're out of luck.

Because he is a Raelian, he's got a natural interest in the
origin of the species. In the biotechnology program at the
University of Alabama in Huntsville, he's able to chase that.
This semester he completed his classwork, and now he has a year
of research ahead of him.

For his dissertation, he will attempt to clone microorganisms -
  some from Antarctica, some from the depths of the sea off the
coast of Portugal - that live in extreme environments,
attempting to decipher how life on Earth has evolved and how it
got here in the first place.

Dr. Joe Ng, Marsic's adviser, said there will be practical,
industrial applications to the research. Ng said former
astronaut Owen Garriott is heavily involved in the project.

One of the compelling aspects to Marsic is his intelligence, Ng
said. He said his student has a wide range of interests -
  including languages; he speaks five - and the only conflict
Marsic has is trying to divide his time among all of those
curiosities.

"He's probably the most peaceful, tolerant student I've ever
known," Ng said. "His heart is to really understand the origin
of life. It is his passion.

"I think one of the reasons we work so well together is that I
have a very open mind and also a great interest in life's
origin. We've had many discussions about the Raelian Movement,
and what I think about it is, well, all is possible. But I don't
believe anything until I see the proof."

Marsic learned of the movement when he was 18 and playing in a
rock band. One of his band mates told him about it, and his
first response was, "How could anybody believe such a thing?"

He said he had rejected Catholicism a few years earlier - "It
had nothing to do with reality," he said - but he still held to
the belief that there was a supernatural power.

Marsic said his life was changed after reading the Raelian
bible, "The Message Given By Extraterrestrials," written by
French journalist Rael. Rael wrote that in December 1973, he was
contacted by a visitor - who was 4 feet tall, had olive skin and
almond-shaped eyes - from another planet and asked to establish
an embassy to welcome them back to Earth.

"If this was true, the implications were huge, and I needed to
be a part of it," Marsic said.

Rael said the visitor told him during his six-day trip on his
spaceship, "We were the ones who made all life on earth. You
mistook us for gods, and we were at the origin of your main
religions."

Marsic said this message is found in all major religious texts.
For instance, in Genesis - the biblical account of creation -
  the word "Elohim" has been mistranslated as "God" in the
singular, but it is a plural word that means "those who came
from the sky."

And according to Raelian doctrine, the Elohim maintained contact
with humans via prophets, including Jesus, Buddha, Moses and
Mohammed. There is no afterlife, no soul, no god, no forever -
  except for the existence of the universe.

"I don't believe in God," he said. "But I couldn't believe in
evolution either, because when you look at the beauty of life,
it's impossible to imagine this came about by chance."

"I honestly believe that the Raelian Movement is the closest
thing to the truth that I've seen." Damien Marsic In the Raelian
Movement, human life is considered a deliberate creation using
DNA, by a scientifically advanced people who made human beings
in their image.

Marsic said Raelians believe that because the planet has now
become so scientifically advanced - including traveling through
space and creating life through synthesized DNA - humans are
ready to hear and understand the message.

But now the extraterrestrials - the creators of human life -
  need an embassy so they can meet with humans and the heads of
world governments.

"They are not invaders," Marsic said. "They consider us equals.
They don't want to impose their presence on us. We're not ready.
If they came now, there would be a great panic, and humans would
think they were being attacked."

Marsic said what they want is peace. They want no more killing,
no more hunger.

That sounds good to Marsic, a pacifist. Even at a seminar when
one man tried to goad Marsic into a verbal fight over doctrine,
Marsic couldn't be agitated. He listened to the man's irate
arguments, and then he turned to the audience and said calmly,
"Any more questions?"

He said even his mother, a devout Catholic who lives in northern
France, recognizes the serenity he's found with Raelians. But it
doesn't mean she approves.

"She is proud of the work I do at the university, but she thinks
I'm on the wrong religious path," he said. "She prays for me to
return to the right path."

Marsic said there are few rules in the Raelian Movement. They
include:

Do whatever feels good: "You have to feel pleasure in order to
help others."

Don't hurt anyone else: "Don't do this because it is written in
a book somewhere. Just do it because it's right. Harmony is the
thing."

Think, create and blossom: "The purpose of life is life, not the
afterlife. Enjoy now."

Gently spread the message: "They will come back to Earth when
enough people know about them, and when there is enough peace."

Marsic said there are 50,000 Raelians worldwide. It's a quicker
count in Huntsville.


"It's not so lonely as it sounds," he said. "We stay in contact
with other Raelians through the Internet, which is a religion
unto itself. It's where people go for answers."

Besides being a scientist and a Raelian disciple, Marsic is a
musician. He is an accomplished pianist and guitar player. And
he plays accordion for the classic rock/blues band Open Delta,
which performs locally. Saturday night, the band played at the
Kaffeeklatsch downtown, and Marsic was wearing his uniform of
jeans, canvas Converse high-tops and medallion.

The music never approached far-out - instead, Open Delta covered
mainstays such as Eric Clapton, Neil Young and John Fogerty.

Although his adviser won't sign off on Marsic's Raelian beliefs,
he does give his student one endorsement.

"The band is really good," Ng said. "Give it a chance."

=E2=82=AC Story originally published by: The Hunstville Times via
al.com / AL | Patricia C. Stumb - May 13.02


All Copyrights are acknowledged.
Material reproduced here is for
educational and research purposes only.



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   May > May 15

               Corn Circles And CIA/USAF Corona Spy Satellite

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 15:42:34 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 15:01:26 -0400
Subject: Corn Circles And CIA/USAF Corona Spy Satellite

Source: ExtremeTech,

http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,3396,s=1011&a36,00.asp

Only the first part is directly relevant, and as the text is
quite long, you'll have to visit the page and follow the links
to read the rest.

The item is almost one year old, but gives a totally new approach to
the crop circle phenomenon.

Stig

***

June 12, 2001

Anatomy of a Digital Camera: Image Sensors

By Sally Wiener Grotta

**

The image sensor - a silicon semiconductor designed to capture
photons (light) and convert them into electrons - is at the
heart of any digital camera, as well as in scanners and an array
of astronomical, scientific, military, and medical devices.
Electrons, once converted, must then be transferred and
converted again to voltage which can be measured and turned into
digital data.

To achieve all this, some impressively complicated engineering
is required on a microscopic level. The basics of image sensors
were established in the late 1960s and early 1970s. They are
such a key component in visual digital devices - which are
proliferating at a remarkable rate - that sensor design is
constantly being re- evaluated. And digital devices are
proliferating at such a remarkable rate that image sensors
continue to be re-designed and re-invented.

Although it has been refined over the years, the charge-coupled
device (CCD) that was invented more than three decades ago
remains the gold standard of image quality against which all new
sensors are compared. We will focus most of this article on
basic image sensor technology that delves into CCD technology
and designs and touch on CMOS sensors. In a future article we'll
dive deeper into current CMOS sensor technologies.


Crop Circles & Parachuting Film


Like so much that is digital, the impetus for image sensor
development came from government intelligence and space
programs. Cold War spy satellites monitoring the Soviet Union
needed a better method of surveillance in 1960; the top-secret
CIA / US Air Force Corona spy satellite program was launched.
These satellites were outfitted with state-of-the-art KH- series
cameras that used very long lenses and a new kind of plastic
film. (Eventually, the plastic came into commercial use as
"Mylar.")

To calibrate the photos for scale, shapes large enough to be
seen from space were secretly mown into Midwest cornfields.
(Thus, we can now understand the primary source of the
mysterious crop circles that have thrilled and titillated
tabloid readers for decades. And yes, they were signs from
space, though entirely human in nature).

When a film canister was full, it was jettisoned back to earth
over Hawaii in a ceramic container that deployed a parachute.
These were retrieved in mid-air by Air Force C-119 airplanes
(the so-called "Flying Boxcars") that were outfitted with long
snag lines strung between twin tails. If the planes missed, the
canisters would splash down and float in the Pacific Ocean for
up to two days so the Navy could get to them. After two days,
salt plugs would dissolve and the canisters would sink into the
ocean depths to avoid unfriendly retrieval. Even so, at least
one canister is known to have gotten into enemy hands.

Despite occasional failures, the spy satellite system was a far
safer method of surveillance than airplanes and balloons.
Satellites could not be easily shot down. (Remember, 1960 was
also the year of the infamous Francis Gary Powers U-2 incident
in which the USSR brought down a US spy plane more than 1,500
miles inside its borders.) However, film retrieval was the
system's weak link. Obviously, something better had to be
developed - and fast.


Enter Analog


The next technological advance in satellite photography involved
processing the film on board, scanning it using a fine light
beam, and converting the light wavelengths into electrical
analog signals that could be beamed to receiving stations on
earth. Once on terra firma, they were translated back into
images. (The analog system was similar to the old Associated
Press and United Press International press wires that sent news
stories and photographs around the world to newspapers.)

Exactly when, where and how digital photography supplanted
analog technology in government intelligence and space programs
is murky because much of the information is still classified.
Sometime between the early 1970s and today, all U.S. space
photography became digital, making exponential improvements in
resolving power and quality, and producing spectacular pictures
of our universe. In fact, digital photos, such as those that
were captured and beamed back to Earth by the (corrected and
improved) Hubble space telescope are of exceptionally high
quality.

Digital photography doesn't have an exact data of birth. The
late 1960s are close enough. That's when various scientists
discovered that Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductors (CMOS)
could be made photosensitive. The Charge Coupled Device (CCD)
was invented in late 1969 at Bell Labs by Dr. William S. Boyle
and Dr. George E. Smith. Its image quality was so superior that
it quickly eclipsed CMOS for digital image capture. However,
CCDs are more sensitive to radiation than CMOS. Radiation, of
course, increases the further up you go from Earth's surface.
This has helped to fuel continued and energetic CMOS image
sensor research and development with government and military
funding.

In this article, we'll look at the amazing technologies and the
underlying physics that actually allow a piece of silicon to
capture an image from incident light.

next >>

**

Copyright (c) 2002: Ziff Davis Media Inc. All rights reserved.

ExtremeTech is a trademark of Ziff Davis Publishing Holdings
Inc.

Reproduction in whole or in part in any form or medium without
express written permission of Ziff Davis Media Inc. is
prohibited.









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   May > May 15

               Lunatic Prices Paid For Extraterrestrial Acres

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:28:05 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 15:04:01 -0400
Subject: Lunatic Prices Paid For Extraterrestrial Acres


Source: The Irish Examiner,

http://www.online.ie/news/irish_examiner/viewer.adp?article=3D1733670

Stig

***

Moonstruck buyers pay lunatic prices for extraterrestrial acres

**

The Irish Examiner

07 May 2002

*

By Eddie Cassidy

*

ESTATE agents are over the moon after selling millions of acres
of the lunar landscape and other parts of the solar system to
property and mineral speculators.

Ex-American presidents, Hollywood stars and an anonymous member
of the Royal Family are among some of the moonstruck buyers.

The United Nations and NASA insist no one can own any part of
the moon, but interplanetary auctioneers are selling parts of it
at a lunatic price of =A310 per acre.

An estimated one million people currently hold deeds to 280
million extraterrestrial acres after American entrepreneur Denis
Hope spotted a loophole to claim ownership of the planets in a
1967 UN Outer Space Treaty.

To avoid any conflict between the USA and Russia, the treaty was
drafted to ensure no nation can claim ownership of the planets.

But the former shoe salesman said the treaty made no reference
to individuals owning the planets and he filed to the US courts
in 1980 for a declaration of ownership of the Earth's moon,
Mars, Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto
and their respective moons.

He expects to net about =802 million this year and is looking for
salesmen, globally, to tap new markets.

Francis and Sue Williams, who secured the British franchise and
run www.moonestates.com, have already sold lunar acres to about
80,000 Britons. "We have made a lot of money," confessed Mr
Williams, who describes himself as the "Lunar Ambassador to the
UK". He said the properties were legally obtained in good faith
from the Lunar Embassy in Rio Vista, California.

The sale of parts of the solar system has been denounced by the
UN, the British National Space Centre, the Royal Astronomical
Society and NASA.

But the new titleholders, including ex-Presidents Ronald Reagan
and Jimmy Carter, along with Tom Cruise, Harrison Ford, John
Travolta and Eddie Murphy, are convinced the offer is just out
of this world.

Three blue-chip companies have also taken a gamble and invested
in a total of over eight million acres in the hope of mining
platinum and other minerals at some future date.

According to Mr Williams, an after-sales service is provided
courtesy of the US Navy through its lunar probe, Clementine.

It gives buyers a chance, he said, to see if their plot or
crater has been littered with astronaut's beer cans!

**

Copyright







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   May > May 15

                   Re: Atlanti Retracts Support For 'Reed'

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 07:49:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:06:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Atlanti Retracts Support For 'Reed'


 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:19:09 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Atlanti Retracts Support For 'Reed'

 >Shawn Atlanti Retracts Support For Jonathan Reed Story

 >I received the following message from Shawn Atlanti and I am
 >posting it here for Royce Meyers and all List readers as he now
 >retracts support for Jonathan Rutter (AKA Reed), however he
 >lists some provisos that slightly mitigate complete and utter
 >retraction.....

 >-----

<snip>

Hi Bill,

Mr. Atlanti sent me this early yesterday and it was posted to my
website. I don't think that this will be the last person that
does the right thing and withdraws their support of the Reed UFO
Fraud.

By the way, be sure to check my website for more BS from Dan
Iaria and Jaime Maussan - these guys just don't get it and I
would suggest that serious UFOlogy not support them or those
associated with them as they are unwilling to reveal the facts
about this case to the public.

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/iaria-maussan.html

The investigation is on-going and there will be much, much more
coming out about this fraud shortly.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM








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   May > May 15

                       Roswell & Alien Autopsy Notice

From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:46:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:16:51 -0400
Subject: Roswell & Alien Autopsy Notice


Two aspects of the 1947 Roswell UFO incident have generated the
majority of the discussion and interest in this subject in the
last few years:

ONE - The Santilli Alien Autopsy Film as seen on Fox TV

TWO - The analysis of the UFO debris and message seen in the 7
known photos taken in General Ramey's Ft. Worth, TX office in
July of 1947.

The infamous Alien Autopsy film has been digitized and put on a
2 CD set. These are NOW being made available to the public.

Using included free ware, you can now view the entire UNEDITED
original film on your PC, and if you wish analyze the film frame
by frame with amazing clarity and detail.

THEN, decide for yourself if it's the real thing or a fraud.

This concludes an 18 month project where some of  the most
prominent Roswell and UFO researchers and authors in the world
have viewed this digitized version of the AA film and submitted
their reviews and opinions of the film.

The CD's also include a comprehensive analysis of the 7 known
photographs of the supposed Roswell UFO debris taken in General
Ramey's office in July 1947.

See the following Web site for details, the project's
objectives, the reviews, and how to order a copy of this 2 CD
set.

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/aafilm/aaindex.html

Kindest Regards,

Dave Vetterick
Neil Morris
Ed Gehrman







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                       Re: Fire The Government - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:54:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:19:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Fire The Government - Clark


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Fire The Government - Lehmberg
 >Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 05:42:36 -0500

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:54:34 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:43:42 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:01:03 -0500
 >>>>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>>>>From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
 >>>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:05:43 -0500
 >>>>>Subject: Fire The Government

 >>Conspiracy theories are to real-life politics, history, and
 >>current events what pornography is to real-life sexuality - in
 >>other words, an extremely distant approximation.

 >That's quite simply the most ridiculous analogy I've ever heard,
 >sir.

Why, thank you. I try to do my best.

 >Additionally, it doesn't help your point. If they were
 >remotely analogous then pornography wouldn't exist, just as you
 >maintain a conspiracy won't exist. You've already demonstrated
 >an incomprehensible naivete with your junior G-man admonition
 >regarding the efficacy of the vote - "vote better people in,"
 >indeed. I'm not surprised that you'd turn away from obvious
 >conspiracy existing in a world actually much more complicated
 >that you'd give it credit for, despite your unctuously
 >convincing advice on "distant approximations" of apples and
 >oranges.

You are the true conspiracy theorist, Mr. Lehmberg. All
conspiracy theorists, without exception, imagine themselves to
be privy to hidden truths denied ordinary people, and they
believe that those who scoff at conspiracy theory suffer an
"incomprehensible naivete," as opposed to the gimlet- eyed
sophistication that surrounds the paranoid in such a warm,
cuddly glow. In fact, the conspiracy theorist seeks comfort in
ignorance, simplicity, and an imagined order (even if a sinister
one), fearing a real world of extraordinary complexity,
randomness, and unpredictability, and painted in colors that are
often only shades of gray.

The great American historian Richard Hofstadter called it the
"paranoid style" and traced its curious manifestations through
American history, with each generation of conspiracy theorists
picking its own - often mutually exclusive - set of conspirators
More recently, Robert Alan Goldberg writes, "Conspiracy thinking
gives hope, unity, and purpose in a world that often seems
beyond the reach of the powerless." He further observes,
"Conspiracy theories offer much to believers. If slippery in
their logic and often careless of facts and assumptions, they
order the random and make consistent the paradoxical. Theories
find purpose in tragedy and clarity in ambiguity."

 >>Both conspiracy
 >>theory and pornography, not incidentally, have the effect of
 >>discouraging their consumers from becoming responsible, rational
 >>adults and functioning in a real, complicated world.

 >This is forgetting completely that the only reason pornography
 >exists at _all_ is that a vast number of people are not getting
 >enough quality sex in this nation of nations so crippled with
 >sexual ignorance that the Attorney General is moved to cover the
 >nipple of Justice with a drop cloth, _and_ get away with it!

Well, depends on what you mean by "get away with it." Unless you
mean he wasn't led away in chains for the crime of infuriating
Alfred Lehmberg, he didn't get away with it. As I recall, the
Attorney General found himself at the receiving end of withering
ridicule from just about everybody except the most extreme
conservatives and Christian rightists. The action was almost
universally seen as proof that Mr. Ashcroft suffers from an
absurd prudery.

Beyond that, I leave it to other List members to judge the logic
and sanity of your assertion that the conspirators are somehow
causing us to have bad sex lives. I will say, however, that
"crippled with sexual ignorance" does any describe any America I
recognize. One could, in point of fact, make a case that the
contrary is true, that - as many, more conservative commentators
have complained - we're unhealthily overloaded with sexual
information, imagery, and the like. I don't necessarily agree,
but this is a view, right or wrong, expressed by reasonable,
thoughtful observers of our multi-faceted cultural life. People
whom I suspect, I'm afraid, Mr. Lehmberg hasn't read.

 >People are sexually irrational, irresponsible, and non-
 >functioning not because of pornography, Mr. Clark. They are
 >those things because they are not getting quality information
 >from their leadership, clergy, and academic institutions about
 >sexual matters and pornography is created to fill that void. In
 >the same manner, and probably for similar reasons regarding
 >control issues, a lack of quality information about "real life
 >politics" (an unending subterfuge of pork, duplicity, and stupid
 >white men), "history" (a heroizing pap of convenient fabrication
 >according to Dr. James Loewen and Dr. Michael Parenti) and
 >"current events" (a corporate media facilitated cluelessness
 >about what's really going on...) leads to valid suspicions
 >regarding that likelihood of a conspiracy you can't bring
 >yourself to accept, or a "fringe" created to fill that void you
 >don't acknowledge.

Hey, I hate to disappoint you, but _there is no huge conspiracy
controlling the world_. Moreover, that imagined conspiracy has
nothing to do with the quality or quantity of sex in society, or
anything else. There is no conspiracy, either, as some insist,
to hide the truth that the world is flat or hollow or run by a
cabal of Freemasons or Jews or reptile aliens or Catholics or
Communists or neo-Nazis or pagan tree-worshippers or gun-
  controllers or whomever.

Yes, of course, there are social problem, inequities, power and
financial imbalances, and social injustices that good people
lament and that conscientious citizens, officials, and political
leaders try, with varying degrees of success, to ameliorate
(even while disagreeing about their nature, origin, and cure).
None, however, requires a vast, evil, all-encompassing
conspiracy to explain it. Indeed, such fantasies only hinder our
understanding of these problems and do precisely nothing to help
us solve them.

If I may judge from your remarks above, in which we hear once
again the classic crank litany that all conventional knowledge
is rubbish, I think it is safe to infer that you don't exactly
spend a lot of time studying real-life politics and history, or
even trying to think coherently. How, for example, could "stupid
white men" manage to orchestrate a vast, successful, efficient
conspiracy spanning decades and centuries? Wouldn't that require
a high degree of intelligence?  Oh, never mind. You said it just
because it made you feel good, didn't you?

 >The real irony here is that I'm not the one living in a dream
 >world, because the majority _are_ helpless pawns, there _are_
 >behind the scenes mechanisms, and "all-powerful (above the law)
 >plotters" are plain. Your pretty speech will contain admonitions
 >to participate in (a corrupt) society, stay (belatedly)
 >informed, balance (bogus) issues and (contrived) choices, and
 >buy into the rubric of voting for one corporate clone or the
 >other... so I'll continue to make myself heard in my own way,
 >thanks.

It's a free country, Mr. Lehmberg, so you have every right to
make yourself heard, even if those of us of markedly less
paranoid inclination will not be paying much attention - also
our right.

Meantime, I bow out of further discussion. I've learned from
long experience that time spent trying to speak reason to
conspiracy theory is time wasted. I prefer the real world,
myself. It's an infinitely more interesting - and, yes, an
infinitely more vexing - place in which to live.


Jerry Clark







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   May > May 15

                       Re: Fire The Government - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 11:20:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:21:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Fire The Government - Clark


 >From: Tim Brigham <TBrigham2@cox.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Fire The Government
 >Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 05:58:31 -0600

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:54:34 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Fire The Government

 >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 06:43:42 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Fire The Government


 >Your points regarding outlandish conspiracy theories in general
 >are well taken (I refer here to the views of no one in
 >particular), but the following is a rather bold statement -

 >>Conspiracy theories are to real-life politics, history, and
 >>current events what pornography is to real-life sexuality - in
 >>other words, an extremely distant approximation. Both conspiracy
 >>theory and pornography, not incidentally, have the effect of
 >>discouraging their consumers from becoming responsible, rational
 >>adults and functioning in a real, complicated world.

 >... and while not wishing to go off-topic (and in a sense I
 >don't feel I am, by asking if you are making a statement of
 >opinion and labeling it as fact), I have to wonder, as one who
 >has recently had to review the literature on the psychological
 >effects of pornography, whether you are making a statement based
 >on some evidence I am unaware of, or whether you are simply
 >taking some 'literary liberties'. Gee, would that make me a
 >literary critic? ;)

It's called argument by analogy, Tim. Literary critics use it.
So do scientists, historians, and social scientists. So do most
people at one time or another.

Cordially,

Jerry Clark






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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 00:32:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 04:13:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bowden


 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >I would like a clearer definition of the role that photographic
 >evidence plays in establishing the reality of the presence of
 >UFOs on our world. And let's leave aside any consideration of
 >who is building and piloting these craft or where they may be
 >from. Let's just speak of the photographs as evidence that real
 >and solid, unknown, objects are circumnavigating our skies.

 >Any takers?

Hi John,

Bear with me on this.

I know you asked to leave aside who's piloting these things but
as you well know one strong belief is that the UFO is from
another World. This then creates a link between the UFO and the
alien abductors.

Over the years I have asked various UFO researchers:

Why is it there is a ton of photographic/video/film and even
radar evidence of unexplained objects in the skies but none of
the aliens themselves?

In this day and age of CCTV, motion detector alarm systems (you
can get from your local Tandy's) right down to your own cat and
dog, nothings detected.

The answer I get is:

"The aliens obviously have a superior technology that allows
them to move undetected and unseen"

If these people are right then it's obvious the UFO is not
related or they'd employ the same technology. After all what's
the point in activating your stealth belts if the ship you came
in on shows up like Battlestar Galactica on the defence grid!

If these people are wrong... well that opens a whole new can of
worms.

Photographic evidence is important, it adds to the pot but until
we can catch one all we can do is look and (camera ready)
record.

I know the UFO is a real thing, I've seen two in my time.

Lets get some answers. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition/

Dave Bowden







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                          Secrecy News -- 05/15/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:23:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 04:17:38 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/15/02

SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 43
May 15, 2002


**      BILL LEONARD WILL BE NEW ISOO DIRECTOR
**      SSCI REPORT ON 2003 INTELLIGENCE BILL
**      BOOKS RECEIVED


BILL LEONARD WILL BE NEW ISOO DIRECTOR

Following an extended search and a vacancy of several months, a
new Director of the Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO)
has finally been named: J. William Leonard will assume the
position, effective June 3.

ISOO is a tiny but disproportionately influential office that
oversees the implementation of national security classification
and declassification policy government-wide. Created by
executive order, ISOO is housed at the National Archives and
takes policy direction from the National Security Council. For
over two decades, its Director was Steven Garfinkel, who retired
from that position last January.

ISOO plays a prominent role in the formulation of new secrecy
policies, including pending revisions to the current executive
order on classification policy. The ISOO Director also serves as
executive secretary to the Interagency Security Classification
Appeals Panel, chairs the National Industrial Security Program
Policy Advisory Committee, and quite a bit more.

Mr. Leonard, the new ISOO Director, is a longtime Department of
Defense security official and is widely respected as an advocate
of sensible and cost-effective security policies. At the same
time, having served through the significant secrecy reforms of
the past decade, he is attuned to the concerns of those who
advocate increased public access to government information.

A March 13 National Archives press release announcing Mr.
Leonard's appointment is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/05/nara051302.html

Mr. Leonard's views on secrecy policy can be discerned up to a
point from testimony he presented to the Senate Governmental
Affairs Committee at a March 1998 hearing that is available
here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/hr032598/leonard.html


SSCI REPORT ON 2003 INTELLIGENCE BILL

The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence this week issued its
annual report on the intelligence authorization bill, the first
substantial Committee product since September 11. While
interesting, the report does not rise to the occasion.

The Committee members practically fall over themselves awarding
new money to the intelligence agencies. "The Committee
compliments the Administration for requesting higher levels of
resources for the Intelligence Community for fiscal year 2003
and beyond," the report says. Compliment accepted.

The report also reveals a touching sense of frustration that the
Intelligence Community has failed to provide the Committee the
information that it needs to perform its oversight function,
even on a classified basis. The intelligence agencies appear to
have almost as little regard for Congress as for the American
public.

Thus, the Director of Central Intelligence's compliance with
Committee reporting requirements has been "dismal," the report
says. "In sum, of the 84 reports required, seven were submitted
by the deadline, for an overall record of eight percent
compliance."

The text of the new SSCI report, Senate Report 107-149, is
posted here:

  http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_rpt/srpt107-149.html

See also "Congress Moves to Lift Intelligence Spending" by
Walter Pincus and Dana Priest in the May 15 Washington Post
here:

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17294-
2002May14.html


BOOKS RECEIVED

Secrecy News welcomes review copies of books on national
security, information policy and intelligence. Recent receipts
include:

"Access Denied: Freedom of Information in the Information Age,"
edited by Charles N. Davis and Sigman L. Splichal, Iowa State
University Press, 2000:

http://store.yahoo.com/isupress/0813825679.html

"Secrecy Wars: National Security, Privacy, and the Public's
Right to Know," by Philip H. Melanson, Brassey's Inc., 2001:

http://www.brasseysinc.com/Books/1574883240.htm

"Ivory Bridges: Connecting Science and Society," by Gerhard
Sonnert and Gerald Holton, MIT Press, 2002:

http://mitpress.mit.edu/


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the
message:

subscribe secrecy_news

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691





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                          Filer's Files #20 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 01:40:59 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 04:23:18 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #20 - 2002


FILER'S FILES #20-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
May 15, 2002, Majorstar@AOL.COM.
Webmaster: Chuck Warren http://www.filersfiles.com.

UFO SIGHTINGS in Pennsylvania lights, Virginia, Florida circular
objects, Kentucky lights, Indiana radio report, Illinois
abduction, Texas sphere, Canada daylight sighting, Cuba
activity, Mexican UFOs, Argentina cigar, Chile objects and
Australia lights. Thoughts on Roswell.

ROSWELL UFO MUSEUM

Last Saturday, I spoke at the Roswell Museum and had a wonderful
time meeting the staff and volunteers who work there. . I
encourage everyone to visit the museum which has had over a
million visitors. The exhibits, library and gift shop are
outstanding. Everyone was gracious and friendly and made me feel
at home.  The museum has wonderful displays and exhibits that
need to be seen by everyone. The on going research into Roswell
appears to gaining ground with new witnesses coming in.
regularly. I also was able to visit the Foster Ranch crash site.
Although, I searched the field for several hours, I was unable
to find any crash debris in the rocky ground filled with various
holes of animals such as prairie dogs. There are a million
hiding places for small bits of metal It was a warm day but
surprisingly cold on the field  I had the feeling that there
must be some metal left and that underground radar may be able
to detect its presence. It would cost about $20,000 to have an
underground survey of the site. A tax exempt donation to pay for
the survey of the debris site might be able to find the answer
once and for all? Contact http://www.filersfiles.com.

PENNSYLVANIA UFO HOVERS OVER HOUSES

PHOENIXVILLE -- On April 10, 2002, the witness reports, it was
changing shapes and turning from a dull red to a bright white.
At11:30 PM, it was moving slowly and just hovering over the
houses. It was beautiful, so I called my stepdaughter to see
what I was looking at, and asked her if she thought it could be
an airplane? She said, "Its blinking on and off and changing
colors from dull red to bright white. This is no joke!! Please
help me to understand what I just saw. There were a four or five
airplanes that flew right under it and someone must have seen
it.

VIRGINIA TWO SETS OF MOVING PARALLEL LIGHTS

VIRGINIA BEACH --While admiring the planetary alignment that
occurred on April 17, 2002, on an extremely clear night I
noticed two bright lights completely parallel to each other east
to west not north to south at 8:30 PM. I thought they were stars
at first, but I noticed they were moving east at a rapid speed,
with brightness about the magnitude of Venus. Then I noticed two
more parallel lights that were north and south of each other
moving ahead of the first set but slightly dimmer. The two
dimmer set of lights then changed position criss crossing each
other. I watched both sets as they disappeared into the haze of
the city lights. ((NUFORC Note: ISS and Space Shuttle passed
over Virginia Beach at 20:45 on this date. PD))

FLORIDA DISC AND LIGHTS

PENSACOLA -- Two stationary lights on the western horizon
suddenly moved simultaneously upward then began to move
southwesterly on April 17, 2002. Both were whitish lights that
never "blinked", or flickered at 9:30 PM, seemed to be very far
out in distance, and both moved simultaneously and at an angle
to each other. After 10 to 15 seconds one light disappeared,
then a couple of seconds later the second light disappeared.
((NUFORC Note: ISS and Space Shuttle passed over this area US at
20:21 on this date. Please see http://www.Heavens-above.com. PD

DELAND -- A circular object with three different colors hovered
over the trees on April 17, 2002, 12:34 AM making jerky motions.
The circular object was sort of floating around above the trees
in no repetitive motion but very erratic. Showing green, red and
blue colors the object disappeared after hovering in that
specific area for about three minutes.

TAMPA -- The witness reports, "I was coming out of the AMC
Westshore Theater on April 8, 2002, on the top level at around
9:45 PM with my mother. I looked up to look at the night sky and
when I did I thought what I saw was a meteorite coming down or
skipping around on the atmosphere. So I kept looking but then in
less than 3 seconds it turned and began to move very quickly. It
was zig zaging like a person shining a pen light on a board and
moving it quickly. That is why I thought it was a meteorite
skipping off the atmosphere at first. Then I realized that it
was going in and out and underneath and above the clouds. It
moved toward the south all in the space of about 10-30 seconds.
Nothing to my knowledge could have even endured the G forces.
Also the speed was tremendous. It traveled at about 5 miles
within 5 seconds. I had already pointed it to my mother who
said, "She would never get over it." I too am as amazed. I have
wanted to see something like this for 22 years and now it's
happened. I would also like to make clear that it looked like a
firefly (except no trails of light behind) and that it was not
only going above and through clouds it would also be clearly
seen from the backdrop of space. There was no light from the
ground creating it also. This light was very clearly a UFO.
Thanks to Peter Davenport Director of NUFORC
http://www.ufocenter.com.

INDIANA STRANGE POLICE CALL

NEW ALBANY -- Kathleen Keith reports on a May 11, 2002, she was
listening to a police scanner up north (still in Indiana) and
heard that a UFO had come down and landed on the road and blew
someone's car? or person? right off the road. That was all they
heard. Later they checked out the news broadcasts and the papers
and there was no mention of it. You would think that if it came
down on the road there would be a lot of people who would have
seen it. Thanks to Kathleen Keith.

ILLINOIS LIGHTS

SCOTT AIR FORCE BASE - K. Chadwick reports that on Monday, April
29, my daughter and I were traveling up towards St. Louis on I-
57. About 10:00 PM, we spotted a bright light north of us, that
behaved strangely, then seemed to hover which we lost from our
line of sight. About an hour later, south of St. Louis on I-64
(north) we saw what looked like the same light (brighter than
the brightest star) again and my daughter was looking right at
it, perfect visibility, as it disappeared. We pulled off the
interstate just past the Scott AFB exit and saw 3 craft very low
to the ground, moving extremely slowly. They appeared to have 3
big lights at the front of the craft. As we came to a stop in a
gas station lot, we got out and looked up at a triangular craft,
(not raked-winged, perfectly triangular) approx. the size of a
basketball held at arm's length. Its shape was very well
outlined by the starry sky and it was totally stopped directly
overhead. We heard what appeared to be jet aircraft sounds,
although not as loud as you would  expect by its proximity. I
can't help but think all these sightings are related and wonder
who are piloting these craft, which we know nothing about, in
our skies. Thanks to Chadwick" qualitywalls@webtv.net

ILLINOIS ABDUCTION

Paul S. reports, I learned about missing time and a position
change on Carlyle Lake in Illinois that took place on October
28, 1999 with the help of a GPS trail. It took a long time but I
finally found some one who could assist me in recovering the
memories of this event. On Saturday, April 6, 2002, I went to
Craig Lang a hypnotherapist and investigator and was able to
recover the memories of the Carlyle incident with his help. I
was pulled in my boat straight at the railroad bridge embankment
just as the GPS showed. It was at a lower angle than I had
thought so for a while I thought I would hit it, and then the
flight curved up. The boat did not stay level as I had imagined,
but tipped over and I floated out after trying to hang on. By
the time I found myself going into the craft the boat was almost
upside down. It seemed as if I went right through the floor of
the craft with no door involved but I am not sure of this. I
always figured I would look up at some time and see the UFO, but
I was too scared to look.

A grey came over and escorted me to a table. I focused on his
strange looking hand. I remember that the tips of his fingers
had little balls or something on them. I did not want him to
touch me. I don't remember being undressed, but when I wound up
on the table, my clothes were gone. That was embarrassing. A
bigger guy came, stuck his eyes in my face, and seemed to engulf
me and suck something out of my mind. However, I nothing gone. I
guess that this was some kind of brain scan. When he left I
swung myself off the table and went to where my clothes where.
The next thing I know I am back on the table and again got off.
Then they let me dress and maybe even helped me. Then they stuck
me in my boat, opened a hatch of some kind and shoved me and the
boat into the air about 900 feet over Carlyle Lake. I was so
scared I stopped the regression and took a rest. I then was able
to remember the boat splashing down and my reseating in it
without harm. Maybe I made them mad.

There is more, of course, including an abduction that took place
while I was walking in a park in Southern Illinois. Several
years ago they took me straight off the ground up into the
clouds and into a craft. I was unable to remember what happened
on the craft that time. I kept saying, "Is this a view from an
airplane?" However, all I could see was the toes of my shoes, no
window, and no airplane. This had to be quite a few years ago.
Craig had to work with me to break the memory blocks they use.
He backed me up from the second position on the lake and had me
repeatedly replay the events leading up to the abduction. Once I
remembered the flight to the craft then things came easier.
Nothing on the craft looked as I had visualized it. On the first
day, I saw everything on the ship as clouds and not clear. On
the second day, the images on the ship where quite clear.
Thanks to Paul S http://www.mm.com/user/crlang/)

MICHIGAN PILOTS SPOT POSSIBLE UFO

Peter Davenport called me in Roswell just as I started to check
into the Budget Motel, that an interesting report had just came
in from airline pilots on a Caf=E9 Pacific flight from Kennedy
Airport, New York to Vancouver on May 9, 2002, at 1:45 AM. They
spotted a spectacular fireball entering the atmosphere about 70
miles south of Sault St. Marie. The object lit up the night sky
Thanks ro Debbie.

TEXAS SILVER SPHERE

AUSTIN -- The observer states, "I was headed for work on April
10, 2002, and was dropping off my trash at the dumpster and
looked up and saw a Silver Sphere just hovering 4:35 PM. It
never moved and just hung there motionless in the clear blue
sky. At first I thought it was a balloon but it never drifted
with the wind. The clouds were moving by it but it never changed
position. I watched it for about 5 minutes curious at what it
was and even looked for someone else around to show it to but of
course no one was there. What struck me, as being unusual is it
was a breezy day but it had no effect on it moving with the
wind. I had to continue on to work so I never got to see it
leave. It was shiny and looked silver to me because it did have
a glare off it. It basically looked like a Silver Ball hanging
in the air.

COLORADO A LARGE DISC SHAPED CRAFT:

  TELLURIDE -- On May 3, 2002, a large disc shaped craft with a
dome on top was seen hovering over Telluride Airport. The craft
was as large as a 747 jet aircraft. At 3:00 AM, locals there
reported that supplies were arriving at the airport by transport
and going up the highway by transport under heavy security.
Black helicopters also flew in the area. He surmises that this
was an ongoing supply operation for a Base nearby, most likely
Idarado Mine? He said that that mine was purchased before public
listing was made available, "off the market" several years ago
by someone connected to Ford Motor Co. IDARADO MINE has 360
miles of tunnels under a mountain ridge with a western entrance
located about 2 miles east of Telluride and the eastern portal
about 11 miles south of Ouray. The Idarado mines and mill
operated until 1978.

The witness reports, He thinks they are looking around all the
time for high resonance individuals that they can tamper with,
and that they are particularly focused on the Telluride culture.
Possibly due to the base there. ".... He also mentioned an
encounter reported to him by a woman who was talking with
someone who was having a conversation with her and all of a
sudden this person's hands started to become lizard-like." My
girl friend who was on military duty saw an individual dressed
in a military fatigues, change appearance to a Reptilian
Humanoid while she was standing in the commissary at Ft. Sam
Houston, TX  BLM manages 8.3 million acres of public lands and
27.3 million subsurface acres. The first Colorado sighting of a
UFO that was a metallic object was sighted hovering above
Manitou Springs for several minutes on May 19th, 1947, that flew
aerial acrobatics in the afternoon sky. Thanks to Christopher
O'Brian, author of "Enter the Valley "(St. Martins Press),.

CALIFORNIA

MARTINEZ LAKE -- Two witnesses went up on the river about
fifteen miles and pulled into an inlet to swim on March 30,
2002. They heard a loud noise that sounded like a jet or some
kind of plane at 2:30 PM. Two of the people we were with were
saying, "look at that" while pointing to the sky. As I looked up
there I saw 5 white spheres dancing around. They at first were
dancing in a circle then all started heading out in a line where
they all would disappear before my very eyes. A second report
came in on March 30, 2002, at 2:30 PM, regarding a sighting of a
daylight object. The five witnesses report seeing five spheres.
The friends I was with decided to take their boat up river 10 to
15 miles and go swimming. I looked up and after focusing my eyes
I saw 5 round white objects floating around. At first it looked
like they had formed a circle and then they proceeded to float
out into a line. I then lost track of them. Thanks to NUFORC
http://www.ufocenter.com.

CANADA DAYLIGHT SIGHTING

OTTAWA, ONTARIO -- Brian Vike reports that on Saturday April 17,
2002, on Montreal Road in Vanier across from a grave-yard there
was a daylight sighting of a UFO. The witness reports, "I work
in a convent as a chef and I am the only smoker in the building
and I have to go out side. I was on my lunch brake 12:30 PM,
when I looked up to see what looked like a small airplane coming
from the northeast. As it got closer, I noticed that it was oval
shaped and changing color from black to silver. The sighting
lasted for about a minute and disappeared behind a large cloud.
The size of the craft was about 25 to 30 feet long and about 15
to 20 feet wide at the front of the craft. The craft was black
and silver and rocking side to side at about 300 feet high as it
changed color. It flew behind a cloud and disappeared. Brian
Vike writes, "Based on some of the reports I have received this
year, there seems to be a pattern of very frightened people."
Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.HBCC UFO.com

CUBA INTENSE UFO ACTIVITY

**HAVANA--Mike Bird reports on his recent trip says, "An intense
wave of UFO activity has taken place in Cuba in recent years."
Havana-based researchers have made a series of documentaries and
books. He was able to interview five UFO researchers who
disclosed an intense wave of activity that the Cuban military
has blamed on UFOs that are US aircraft used for reconnaissance.
A Cuban farmer, Adolfo Zarate, saw a UFO in a rainstorm landing
60 meters away. "A being that looked human wearing a gas mask
and dressed in camouflaged clothes climbed down a ladder that
lowered out of the camouflaged grass-colored UFO. The pilot got
down and inspected the craft. He spoke to someone in the
cockpit. I think he was collecting some rice shoots or ripping
out a "malanga" (coco-yam) plant. After climbing up a ladder,
the UFO flew off in a burst of blue fire. The only thing I was
the pressure of the air expelled through its exhaust." The craft
was the size of a touring machine. There were no wings or
propellers and it made no sound. It looked like a flattened egg
or a turtle that landed on two legs, like shock absorbers. To
me, the device had skates, because it left its wheels well
marked. The beings face could not be seen, but he resembled a
normal man. I didn't notice him bearing arms," he told the
Sunday newspaper Juventud Rebelde de Cuba. Thanks to Scott
Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology and Yohanan Diaz
Translation (C)

MEXICO UFOS REPORTED OVER VOLCANO

MOUNT POPOCATEPETL - reports UFOs are seen nearly every day near
the volcano. There will be one or more hovering near the crater-
--and there has been one there just about EVERY night! It stays
in position all night long----leaving at dawn and returning at
dusk------They can be seen on the CENEPRED webcam, which
monitors the volcano all the time, in case they have to warn the
people of the need to evacuate. At night you can see some stars
moving across the screen, but the UFO holds it's position---
above and to the east of the crater as little bit In daylight, I
have seen objects come an go---sometimes dark and sometimes
illuminated-----but usually in the same position !  Believe it
or not ( and I have print-outs to prove it ) One week, there
were 3 UFOs forming a right triangle, then they were gone but
the NEXT day, they came back and AGAIN formed a right triangle--
-each object back in it's original position !! You can hold up
the printouts to a strong light and all 3 of them line up---even
though each page is from different days ! An example of extreme
intelligence and marvelous navigation! Fortunately, the time and
date are on the printouts! Thanks to -Dr. Oren Swearingen  MUFON
State Section Director for SE Texas Region
www.messenia.com/links/webcam/popocatepetl.htm ployee) were
sitting at Tuvalu's one and only hotel

ARGENTINA CIGAR-SHAPED UFO SPOTTED

CACHI -- Three motorcyclists from Cachi who were driving along
National Hwy. 33 informed El Tribuno that they had witnessed "a
fantastic sight in May 6, 2002 report." "We saw,"--said the
bikers--" an enormous cigar-shaped unidentified flying object
(UFO) measuring some 100 meters in length." Martin Oliver, Ruben
Chihan and Antonio Rodo, young bikers well known throughout the
area, claimed that their experience occurred on May 1st as they
headed back from the capital. "We want our names to be included,
because for a long time we've been hearing similar stories from
fellow residents who out of a sense of shame or sheer cowardice
do not want their names printed in the paper," stressed the
sportsmen. "We were finishing the Tin Tin stretch when we saw a
strange light from the east, in the vicinity of Payogasta. We
stopped our rides and saw it: an enormous cylinder measuring
some 100 meters in length, shining like a mirror in the
reflected light of the setting sun. It was shaped like a giant
cigarette and flew slowly some 200 meters from the ground. We
couldn't believe it but it was real. It made no noise whatsoever
and appeared to be made of a material similar to polished steel,
" the cyclists reported. "Suddenly, it stopped and remained
suspended in mid-air. A few seconds later, it began flying at an
astonishing speed and lost itself in space."Thanks to (C) 1995-
2002. El Tribuno Digital Translation (C) 2002. Institute of
Hispanic Ufology.

CHILE Sightings Over

Angol -- Restlessness and commotion gripped residents of Angol
and its environs as a result of a wave of UFOs recorded in the
past few hours, in the downtown area of the capital city on May
6, 2002. Only yesterday afternoon, about 15 residents of the
town of Cornelio Saavedra were witnesses to three nearly
simultaneous sightings of strange devices that moved swiftly
through the sky, issuing flashes of multi-hued light, accordng
to the Diario Austral de Araucania Newspaper. The phenomenon was
caught on video by ufologist Raul Gajardo.  It is perhaps worth
noting that experts consider the area as a "hot spot" for UFOs
given the repeated sighitngs which occur every so often and the
large number of witnesses who claim having seen unconventional
craft crossing the heavens over the area.  According to the
information furnished by Gajardo, the first sighting came about
around 19:00 hours when a UFO moving from north to south made an
abrupt dive from an altitude of some 1000 feet, only to lose
itself in the horizon.  Only minutes after the event took place-
-says the ufologist--anothern reddish object appeared from the
Nahuelbuta Range in the vicinity of the sector known as Aguas
Santas, becoming lost in the clouds while a third device
remained motionless in the sky. The multicolored craft began
moving some 60 degrees in a straight line over the mountain
range, without making a sound. Subsequently, it increased its
brightness in 5 second intervals and subsequently continued its
trajectory toward the north until it vanished completely,"
explained the researcher.  Several similar events occurred only
days ago in the capital of Malleco province witnessed by five
students who recorded the phenomenon, and a group of fishermen.
Thanks to Diario Las Ultimas Noticias and the Institute of
Hispanic Ufology

AUSTRALIA AWAKENED BY BRIGHT LIGHT

CROYDON VICTORIA -- Jaqui who was dozing around 2:00 AM, was
awakened by a very bright light which came in through her
window, she said it was strange because there was no noise, and
the brightness of the light was such that it looked like daytime
outside. It went away, and came back again. She then stated that
3 years ago she saw something with four lights that looked so
unusual that she stopped the car to get a better look. She
noticed other drivers had also stopped to look. She was on
Dorset road. Thanks to George Simpson AUFORN Vic and Diane
Harrison  National Director  The Australian UFO Research Network
and Australian Skywatch Director

ROSWELL FILER'S THOUGHTS AFTER VISITING THE CRASH SITE

Going to Roswell and talking to some of the key people as helped
clarify the incident in my mind. I came to the conclusion that
virtually everyone involved was intelligent, honest, patriotic
and was attempting to do their duty. Each person was telling
their story from their point of view. Based on conversations
with Lorretta Proctor, Walter Hault, Tom Carey, Jessie Marcel
Jr, Dave Swinks, watching Bob Durant's excellent video tape, and
touring the key sites with Dennis Balhaser and Bruce Rhodes, and
photographer James Bond Johnson, I came to some conclusions that
will probably cause some controversy. Neil Morris has also made
many additions and suggestions to this paper.

After being notified there was strange wreckage at the Foster
Ranch near Roswell in July of 1947, CIC Captain Sheridan Cavitt
and Major Jessie Marcel were lead there by rancher MacK Brazel,
but apparently drove in separate cars to investigate. Captain
Cavitt claims to have picked up a weather balloon and probably a
RAWIN radar reflector. Mean while Major Marcel was picking up an
unknown type of metallic debris with strange markings and
unusual strength given to him by Mack Brazel. Cavitt, when first
questioned by researchers initially denied being even stationed
at the base at the time, but when this was later proved to be
untrue he then changed his story to the debris only being that
of a weather balloon and radar target. He stuck to that story
even when questioned for the AF Roswell report. The feeling in
most circles is that Cavitt was heavily involved in the recovery
after Marcel left for Fort Worth and was ordered never to speak
about what actually happened. .

Ricketts was at the time a Sgt under Cavitt and accompanied
Cavitt back to the debris field on the 8th July as Marcel was
flying debris to Fort Worth. Ricketts does tell us that some
time later he spent some weeks with Dr. Lincoln La Paz a
specialist in meteorites was interviewing ranchers ln NM who
might have seen any unusual activity. Ricketts claims LaPaz came
to the conclusion some form of vehicle had got into trouble over
NM, landed some way from the Foster ranch debris site to effect
repairs. He claims LaPaz found a site some way from the debris
field where the desert sand had been turned to glass by heat) it
then got itself airborne but exploded over the Foster Ranch
creating the debris field Mack Brazel found.

Major Marcel took the strange debris home and showed his wife
and son who was almost twelve. The son who is now a physician
corroborates this part of the story, but also adds what he saw
was only a small part of the debris his father brought back that
night and that was only a fraction of what was out at the site.
Cavitt was driving a "carryall", which was also filled with
debris. Dr Marcel testifies to seeing "larger" debris still in
the trunk of his father's car, that was not brought into the
house. Major Marcel kept pointing out strange alien writing on
the metallic beams to his superiors who apparently agreed there
was something strange about it. Col. William Blanchard ordered
Lt. Walter Haut to make the announcement of the recovery of a
disc and had the debris flown to Fort Worth, Texas. Blanchard
ordered several aircraft to fly both to Fort Worth and Wright
Patterson AFB, Ohio with debris. He must have had some evidence
that the debris was unusual and potentially important. The large
debris field indicated an explosion or high speed crash took
place. Certainly Blanchard and his staff from the top bomber
unit in the US had seen weather balloons and the radar
reflectors. He must of determined the debris was something
extraordinary and important enough tto order these flights and
to release the data. But was Blanchard's hand forced to issue
the press release? The story of Mack Brazel's find would have
been doing the rounds since he walked into Sheriff Wilcox's
office on the Sunday, and Frank Joyce was broadcasting the story
on his radio show? In a small town the story spread fast so
Blanchard had to issue some form of statement. He probably
expected the story to stay local but it spread throughout the
world. Previously nothing had gone outside of Roswell even after
Frank Joyce's Sunday radio spot, but it seems that the Army Air
Force's "official" sanction of the story by Blanchard made all
the difference.

The two types of debris were flown aboard a B-29 to 8th Air
Force Headquarters at Fort Worth under Balnchard's orders. The
debris could have easily been mixed together at any point. We
don't know the exact mix of the debris but there WAS quite a bit
of it, an independent witness to the loading mentions the boxes
carried on board with Marcel and Deputy Base Commander Jennings
who accompanied Marcel but of whom we hear nothing else, but our
witness also mentions other packages being loaded into the B29
out on the runway.

When displayed on the 8th Air Force Commander General Ramey's
floor the RAWIN Radar Reflector appears to make up some of the
debris, but there is good evidence that other debris was on the
floor. This debris appears to match some of the qualities
attested to by many of the witnesses. The message held in
Ramey's hand also reveals that a disc and bodies were being
brought to Fort Worth. The story indicates, General Ramey didn't
know for sure what was on the floor when photographed by Bond
Johnson. This is confirmed by the Reuters news release where
Major Kirton quotes General Ramey who states no one at FWAAF
could identify the debris as Air Force material. Some of the
debris is loaded aboard the *th Air Force B-26 and flown to
Washington DC and General McMullen. I interviewed his son who
denied all knowledge of the incident.

We know from a sworn statement by Warrant Officer Irving Newton
that he was on duty alone at the base weather office, when he
got a call asking him to come over to General Ramey's office. He
informed the caller he was the only forecaster on duty and could
not leave. A few minutes later he got a call from General Ramey
himself, who told him, "Get your ass over here, if you don't
have a car take the first one with a key!" Assuming Newton's
story is true, General Ramey felt there was something
exceptionally important about the debris, that would justify
taking a car. We can assume Newton rushed over flustered and he
says he was met by an officer who said, the General had some
debris in his office that "he thought was a weather balloon" and
he wanted Newton to confirm this. Newton testifies that when he
entered the room, "I was immediately asked by General Ramey to
identify what was on the floor." Newton took a quick look and
identified the debris as a RAWIN radar reflector. The debris in
the photos appears like a crumbled RAWIN would look, and we can
assume Newton would not contradict his commanding General to his
face after the above briefing. In Irving Newton's sworn
statement to the Air Force he says, "While I was examining the
debris, Major Marcel was picking up pieces of the target sticks
and trying to convince me that some notations on the sticks were
alien writings. There were figures on the sticks lavender or
pink in color that appeared to be weather faded markings with no
rhyme or reason. He did not convince me these were alien
writings."


There does appear to be markings on a beam at Newton's feet in
the Newton photo and these are similar to the markings Newton
described to an artist who produced a drawing of the symbols in
the 1980's. Both Major Marcel and his son Dr. Marcel claim they
saw strange alien writing within small metallic beams. The RAWIN
radar reflector is made like a kite with balsa wood sticks and
paper backed aluminum foil, twine, Scotch tape. It is quite
possible the light weight of the strange metal could be mistaken
for the aluminum foil like material that makes up most of the
ML307 RAWIN radar reflector. These materials had stenciled
markings, asking them to be returned to the Army. The radar
reflector certainly did not contain metallic beams as described
by numerous witnesses. The actions of the commanders indicate
the debris was not just mundane balloons and radar reflectors,
that it was something extraordinary. Thanks to the Roswell
researchers and everyone at the museum. To be continued.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and
comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send
your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically
grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please
state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story
confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND
REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards, George A. Filer









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   May > May 15

                  May 17: History Channel On Roswell Crash

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:08:34 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 04:26:42 -0400
Subject: May 17: History Channel On Roswell Crash


Source: History Channel

http://www.historychannel.com/perl/tv/tvlistings.pl?channel=3Dhist&get=3Dtod=
ay&tz=3DEST&time=3D1

Stig

***

Listings for Friday , May 17

**

Please note: Programming schedules are subject to change.

You are viewing Eastern/Pacific listings. You may also view Mountain
or Central time.

Attention: The way our TV listings are organized has been changed.
The daily and weekly schedules are now listed from 12am to 11:59pm
instead of 6am to 5:59am the next day. For example, for a History's
Mysteries episode which airs at 8pm ET/PT and repeats at 12am ET/PT
on August 15, the 8pm showing will be listed as part of the August
15 schedule, but the 12am repeat will now appear on the August 16
schedule.

Direct TV users, dish owners, and some cable operators within the
Pacific time zone may not be affected by the dual feed.

<snip>

3:00AM - 4:00AM
Roswell: Secrets Unveiled

In 1947, a strange object fell from the sky near Roswell, New
Mexico, and the lives of many civilians and military personnel
would never be the same again. The Air Force's key players come
forward with their version of events that summer. Yet, alien
conspiratorialists remain skeptical. Eyewitness accounts from
Roswell locals and testimonies of respected scientists weave a
pattern of inconsistencies that cannot be so easily dismissed.
TV G

<snip>

=A9 2002 A&E Television Networks. All rights reserved.





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                 HUFOBCC: Three Canadian Reports - 05-15-02

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:26:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 18:35:53 -0400
Subject: HUFOBCC: Three Canadian Reports - 05-15-02


Hi List,

Hope all is well, here are 2 reports from British Columbia for
2002 and a report from Newfoundland for 2000.

Take care

Brian   (Yogi)

---------

Houston, B.C.
Date: Between March 18 & the 24th, 2002 (approx)
Time: 11:00 p.m.


Hello Brian

I'm finally getting back to you, the UFO I saw was in the
direction towards Morice Mountain. (Investigators note: Morice
Mountain is south of Houston and directly behind the town and
runs above timberline). I saw the object around 11:30 p.m. I
think the date was between the March 18 and the 24th. It was a
bright white light with an orange glow around it and was
hovering just below the mountain  line. I watched it for about 2
minutes before it disappeared.

Thank you to this witness for possibly confirming another
sighting of the same object.

Investigators note: Because of the color in which was reported
to me, I checked another report I received from around the same
date (March 21, 2002) in which two witnesses watched a very
bright white object hovering around the same area with an orange
glow or haze to it. The object the witness reported to me above,
it sounds like this object may have been further back towards
the mountain. The two witnesses who reported the March 21, 2002
sighting, had the object hovering just over a barn in a field
almost directly behind the car dealer ship. (pictures were taken
of this object the fellows saw, but quickly threw their camera
into their truck, jumped in and headed off quickly, due to the
object approaching them.

--------------------

Houston, British Columbia
Date: Approx: Week of April 21, 2002
Time: 11:00 p.m.

After talking briefly to this witness, she reported watching a
object about three or four weeks ago at approx: 11:00 p.m. which
puts this sighting in the week of April 21, 2002. It was north
west  of the train bridge over the Bulkley River heading towards
Smithers.  It hovered just above the tree line  for about a
minute. It was a very bright white light and again an orange
haze or glow was reported. She reported hearing no sound due to
being indoors.

Thank you to the witness for her report.

Investigators note: Again we see the same colored object
hovering around the town of Houston. The train bridge in which
she reported is directly southwest of town and does cross the
Bulkley River. This would be the third sighting of this white
object surrounded by a orange haze/glow here in Houston.

------------------

South Brook Halls Bay Newfoundland
Date: Approx: 2000 (or close)
Time: 5:30 p.m.

The UFO sighting I was telling you about involving my auntie and
grand mother, it was near South Brook Halls Bay Newfoundland. It
happen in the day time around 5:30 p.m. about 2 years ago in
June 2000. What happen was they were traveling to a nearby town
to do some shopping when a green light engulfed the car.

My auntie and grandmother both described it as if everything
went still. The light's on the car and engine died. She said it
was such a creepy feeling. When the object disappeared, 20
minutes had elapsed but the whole incident only felt like it
took seconds. They have no idea  what else happened, except for
what I just wrote. After the object left the area they were able
to start the car and everything was running fine.

There was another car behind them while this was happening and
as far as my grandmother and aunt knew,  nobody else reported
anything happening strange that day. They were unable to find
out who the other people were who had pulled up behind as they
departed quickly. They wanted to know if the people had
witnessed this object as I am sure they could not have missed
it.

If there is anything else you might need to know just email me
and let me know.

Thank you to this person for the report.






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   May > May 16

              Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:41:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 18:41:52 -0400
Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -


 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 20:29:23 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -

 >>Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:10:58 -0600
 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>Subject: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast
 >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

<snip>

 >Does Keel's radio broadcast actually mentions about a crashed
 >flying saucer and bodies recovered in Roswell, New Mexico?

Hi Nick,

Yes, it most certainly does.

The knowledge of an alleged crash and recovery of an alien disc
and bodies near Roswell has been known for a lot longer than
Berlitz/Cooper and Friedman/Randle release of their research.
They were, of course, the first researchers to bring the
incident to the public at large and into the larger researcher
population.

It is important to look at this information strictly from an
historical viewpoint at the beginning of modern Ufology, which
is traced directly to Maj. Donald E. Keyhoe's article in True
magazine in January, 1950. Frank Scully presented his material
that same year, but Scully's credibility was lacking even then.

However, most Ufologists (and there were not many at this time)
such as Keyhoe, Isabel Davis, Idabel Epperson, etc. were aware
of the changes being observed within the phenomenon dealing with
humanoids and crashed discs, but careful not to embrace the high
strangeness aspects without proper documentation and analysis.
They dismissed, and rightly so, the early Contactees and their
acceptance of the humanoid factor was developed over a long
period of time.


Wendy Connors









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                             Felder & Salvaille

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 18:53:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 18:53:09 -0400
Subject: Felder & Salvaille

Bobbie Felder & Serge Salvaille continue to self-inflict wounds.

Rather than devote their energies to a solution they have become
part of the problem.

What an utter waste of time, energy and intellect.


Errol Bruce-Knapp
Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto






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               Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - King

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:09:17 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 18:57:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - King


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:58:38 -0400
 >Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<snip>

 >I have had multiple sightings. The only way I have available to
 >me to record these events (to prove I saw 'something') is by
 >using film or videotape. Over the years I have reported _only_
 >those sighting events that I was able to either photograph or
 >videotape. I figured if I couldn't at least back up the sighting
 >report with a little recorded material, it would only become
 >'another' in a long line of 'uninvestigated' UFO sighting
 >reports.

 >In short, a waste of time.

 >It seems that the problem in accepting photographic evidence
 >lies more in the meaning that becomes attached to it rather than
 >the fact that it is evidence for the presence of something
 >*unexplainable. (*in any prosaic terms.) The question should not
 >be; does any particular photo depict an 'alien' craft from
 >'outer space', as much as; does the photo or videotape depict a
 >solid and unidentifiable flying object? How much substantiation
 >does photographic evidence lend to a witness report?

 >Stripped of the 'hot button' emotions that claims of 'aliens'
 >and 'spacemen/women' generate, un-hoaxed photos _are_ 'hard'
 >evidence for the presence of something strange. If nothing else,
 >it is a corroboration for the sighting report.

Johnny and List,

I certainly see your point here and feel your pain. It seems all
evidence is questioned whenever the term UFO is attached to that
evidence. Suddenly a double standard is kicked into play. A
video camera recording a crime is vital evidence but the same
camera, tape, and person are suspect if they point it up in the
sky and tape something strange. There is a doublestandard from
the media, scientists, and government on this entire subject.
That doesn't mean its not important evidence or a waste of time.

The shocking tapes of those planes flying into the towers are
now a piece of history. The multiple videos recorded the
terrorist event from many different angles. Those tapes could
provide allot of data, angle of the plane, speed, time, and
size.

This is no different than the dozen or so people who recorded
Bubba in Arizona last year. We had all types of cameras
employed. Telescopes, BETA SP, Sony handcams, 35mm, and digital
cameras were used. We recorded Bubba from so many angles that
split screen playback reveals allot of data and helps rule out
what its not. Many, many jets flew around and close to Bubba
back then.

I consider this important data as we documented one of the best
sightings in the last decade.

Of the hours of tape several things are learned from studying
them. One of the most important are the flight pattern of this
UFO. It can be compared against videos like yours and thankfully
older Bubba videos to look for patterns. Also balloons and other
commons objects are important to tape anyway for testing
purposes.

 From our sightings of Bubba an airline disaster was always right
around the corner. Each night people wondered if Bubba was going
to appear infront of the jets again. All of us taping hoped none
were going to record a UFO/Plane collision on multiple cameras.
In fact, many of us were expecting something big as the situation
was getting out of hand. We figured it was a matter of time
until a collision occurred. Some people were afraid of that
happening and the jet crashing into populated neighborhoods
while the FAA claimed no UFOs were in the sky. A strange UFO was
toying with our neighborhoods, our commercial jets, and we were
defenseless with the government refusing to do anything about
it. With our videotapes we did put some pressure on the FAA but
not much. Now the videos are all we have to prove it happened.
It all stopped 2 weeks before 9/11. Today it still doesn't make
any sense.

All this data on Bubba alone never made it on the national TV.
We had every camera you could think of and a wide range of
eyewitnesses and it wasn't enough for TV. So if that can't make
it to the TV set what good is a single sightings like yours you
ask? Well screw the media they never report on UFO cases
properly anyway. Somehow they manage to screw up, misreport, and
over sensationalize everything they get they're greedy little
hands on. While your sighting and ours has no interest to the
media its of interest to the UFO community. Atleast you were
taping what you're seeing. Millions of people see UFOs every
year, so what! Big deal join the club of people who now call you
crazy and ridicule you. If you bother to get some further
evidence of your sighting then people will take you "alittle"
more seriously.

 >I have invested hundreds of my hard-earned dollars in
 >photographic equipment. Money, that as a family man, could
 >always have been better spent elsewhere. If photographs and
 >videotape are not considered acceptable evidence, then why
 >bother recording the strange objects in the sky at all?

Oh yes Johnny, if we could only get back all that money we sink
into the field.

<CHER>begin play 'If I could turn back time'</CHER>

Only hundreds John, that's it? It's not much, I figured you for
thousands like many people who are readying this.

So your efforts to videotape or photograph a UFO aren't a waste
of time in my opinion. There are many things you do to those
video and elements you can extract and post. It can be a waste
of time depending on how you reflect back on your life. Atleast
you picked up your videocamera tried to gain further insight to
what you're seeing and that's more than most do. So my hats off
to you for trying and taping them damn UFOs.


Tom King

www.ufovideo.com
Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't!






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   May > May 16

                        Congressional Alert By X-PPAC

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:16:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 07:17:20 -0400
Subject: Congressional Alert By X-PPAC


Congressional Alert By The Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political
Action Committee

Source: United Press International

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=3D03052002-024845-9346r

Stig

***

UPI's Capital Comment for May 6, 2002

 From the Washington Politics & Policy Desk
Published 5/6/2002 3:02 PM

<snip>

 From the X-files of the X-PPAC -- The Extraterrestrial Phenomena
Political Action Committee has sent a "congressional alert" all
over Capitol Hill, altering members of congress to the existence
of a new book, "The Missing Times," by Terry Hansen. X-PPAC says
the book exposes how an "information gap" has been used to
undermine "free and independent journalism" since 1947.

"It is essential that Congress assert its oversight powers and
repair the dysfunctional relationship between top-tier American
media and the intelligence community" and that X-PPAC "stands
ready to assist members of Congress in working toward a
disclosure event ending the government imposed truth embargo
regarding an extraterrestrial presence."

<snip>

Copyright =A9 2002 United Press International







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                  'Flying Saucer' Spotted In Distant Skies

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:46:50 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 07:20:52 -0400
Subject: 'Flying Saucer' Spotted In Distant Skies


Source: SPACE.com,

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/eso_flysaucer_020513.html

Stig

***

Flying Saucer Spotted in Distant Skies

**

By SPACE.com Staff
posted: 10:10 am ET
13 May 2002

*

A team of European astronomers has discovered an infant solar
system on the outskirts of the Milky Way.

The dusty, opaque disk appears to be a proto-system much like
ours, yet still billion of years younger.

Located 500 light-years from Earth and nicknamed the "Flying
Saucer" because of its disc-like shape, the object is providing
the astronomers an opportunity to observe what our own Solar
System looked like in its early evolution.

The star at the center of the Flying Saucer appears young and
stable, leading scientists to believe the dust surrounding it
will eventually coalesce into a variety of planets. Just give it
a couple billion years.

The Earth and its neighbors formed from a disk similar to that
of the Flying Saucer about 5 billion years ago. This is believed
to be a complex process of which not all stages are not yet
fully understood. It is thought to have begun when small dust
particles near our stable star collided and stuck to each other.

No other example of a disc shaped, proto-solar system has been
observed so easily as the Flying Saucer as most central stars
shine to brightly for astronomers to see the surrounding dust.

Fortunately, the Flying Saucer is "bent" so that it is at an
edge-on angle. The thick edge of the disk blocks the star's
light which produces a dark line between the top and bottom
reflection nebulae formed in the dust above and below the star.

Other such objects have been discovered, but the Flying Saucer
is the best such system found for study yet. The Hubble Space
telescope first found an object similar to it in 1996 in the
Taurus dark cloud, a distance of about 500 light-years from
earth. Since then, other objects have been observed using
ground-based telescopes. However, most have been inside rather
dark regions of the sky, where thick stardust obscures accurate
observation.

The Flying Saucer was found quite by accident. A group of
astronomers followed up on observations of new X-ray sources
found by the ESA XMM-Newton and NASA Chandra X-ray satellites in
the periphery of one of the nearest star-forming regions, the
Rho Ophiuchi dark cloud. Using the New Technology Telescope at
the La Silla Observatory in Chile, the astronomers discovered
the resolved edge-on circumstellar disk.

The resolution of the images could barely make out the
characteristic nebulae of a disk shaped proto solar system,
though. To confirm the discovery, astronomers obtained
additional observations with the Very Large Telescope in Chile
using it Infrared Spectrometer and Array Camera.

The leader of the group, Nicolas Grosso, recalls the first
impression when seeing the true shape of the object: "That is
when we looked at each other and, with one voice, immediately
decided to nickname it the `Flying Saucer'".

The nature of the new object

Seven young stars in the Rho Ophiuchi region display similar
reflection nebulae around a dark lane, but these objects are all
still deeply embedded in the dense cores of the dark cloud. They
are also thought to be proto-stars with ages of about 100,000
years.

However, the But the Flying Saucer appears to be about one
million years old. Our solar system is nearly 5000-times older.

Still it shares some physical characteristics with our home
turf. The radius of the Saucer is about 300 Astronomical Units
wide, or 5 times the diameter of Neptune's orbit. This would
also be the outer limit of our solar system.

 >From model calculations, the astronomers have found the mass of
the disk is at least twice the mass of gas giant Jupiter. Study
of the optical to near infrared light indicates the young star
is half the temperature, and only 40 percent as luminous as ours
is.

A detailed analysis of the both nebulae revealed an unusual
excess of infrared radiation in the upper nebula, something that
cannot be explained simply. Future high-resolution observations
by the Very Large Telescope will help astronomers understand the
origin of this phenomenon, and whether it's linked to planet
formation.

"The `Flying Saucer' object presents us with a striking portrait
of our Solar System in its early infancy," Grosso said. "With
this object, Nature has provided us a perfect laboratory for the
study of both dust and gas in young circumstellar disks, the raw
material of planets."

The astronomers plan to study the object further by looking at
its radio waves. These emissions will be easier to study because
unrelated background emissions from the surrounding dark cloud
material will not interfere. Astronomers will then be able to
map the gas and dust material around the young star, and study
chemical processes going on there.

Computer simulations predict that any proto-planets will produce
measurable structural changes in such a disk. However, such
signs of planet formation are far from the sensitivity and
resolution available with current instruments. Detection of
these features is a goal of member countries supporting the
Atacama Large Telescope Array, an international effort to build
the world's most sensitive radio telescope.

**

=A91999 - 2002 SPACE.com, inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 16

                   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 20 - Hayes

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 13:52:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:48:26 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 20 - Hayes

Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

    UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 7, Number 20
May 14, 2002
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


SIXTO PAZ DISCUSSES THE XENDRA EXPERIENCE


No UFO event since the Varginha crash has generated as much
controversy as the Xendra Experience. Last week, Peruvian
ufologist Sixto Paz gave an interview in which he described the
events leading up to the appearance of the Xendra near Rancagua,
Chile.

Back in February 2002, Paz visited Quintero, Chile and predicted
that "an alien contact event" would soon occur. On Friday, March
29, 2002, Paz and several members of Grupo Rama, a Chilean New
Age group, held a three-day UFO seminar at Los Cipreses National
Park near Rancagua, a city 120 kilometers (72 miles) south of
the capital, Santiago de Chile. The seminar members camped out
on a bluff overlooking the Rio Cipreses canyon. On Sunday, March
31, 2002, Paz announced that a Xendra (pronounced Shenn-drah --
J.T.) was "forming in the air" near the rim of the canyon.
Twenty-four Chileans, many of them Grupo Rama members, left the
meeting area and walked beneath the Xendra, which was described
as "a blue arch" or "a luminous arch" 16 square meters (429
square feet) wide. (See UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 16 for
April 16, 2002, "The Xendra Mystery," page 1.)

 From this point on, accounts of what happened vary wildly. Some
witnesses claim that the participants turned transparent and
vanished. Eyewitness Camilo Valdivieto said the humans did not
disappear but simply "lost their materiality" by entering
another dimension.

Eduardo Fouri, an observer from Centro de Fenomeno Aereos
Anomalos (CEFAA), Chile's official UFO investigatory agency,
said that nothing happened, that there was no blue arch, and
that people were just wandering around aimlessly.

However, Sixto Paz insists that the 24 volunteers "did have an
interdimensional experience" at Rio Cipreses. In an interview
with Terra Chile, Paz said, "The initial effort was made to
ensure excellence by trying to keep a large number of people
from attending, only those who had been prepared over time for
the importance of the (contact) mission--constancy, continuity
and discipline-- to maintain the right vibratory level" for
entry into the Xendra.

Despite his efforts, however, 180 people showed up at Los
Cipreses National Park, clamoring for a part in the rumored
contact event.

"Everyone wanted to be at the site to see what would happen,"
Paz reported, "This was a serious error, because neither I nor
anyone else is the 'lucky rabbit's foot' that can ensure an
alien contact experience. This depends exclusively upon each and
every one of the participants, as well as the conditions I just
mentioned."

"From a height we could see the impressive canyon of the Rio
Cipreses, safeguarded by steep and mighty red-and- gray
mountains. The vista was incredible and truly stunning. The sky
was clear, without any clouds or haze."

  "It was a new (campsite) area, recently laid out. For this
reason, the restrooms and other facilities were operational but
still unfinished. This location guaranteed solitude and privacy
since most park visitors tend to go to well-known areas."

"The first thing that was done at the (camp) site was to
designate locations for objects being unloaded from cars, and
then we worked on the harmonization and protection of the area.
To achieve this, everyone present formed two large circles, and
we issued a prayer or meditation to the guardian spirits of the
four corners of the Earth and the seven Galactic Directions,
drawn from the magnificent teachings of the great modern
prophet, Jose Arguelles of Las Trece Lunas (The Thirteen Moons)
movement."

When the 24 participants passed beneath the Xendra, each
encountered entities which were described as "robed, bald-headed
humanoids" and were given separate messages. While the
individual messages varied, Paz explained, there were two
predictions that were common to all.

One, that Chile would be the site of more alien contacts in the
months to come.

Two, that the aliens intended to establish "a permanent
presence" in the "Southern Zone," i.e. South America, Africa and
Australia.

Meanwhile, the participants are busily getting out the Xendra
message. On Friday, May 10, 2002, witness Camilo Valdivieto, 28,
organized a seminar of his own in Santiago de Chile. Seminar
topics included the following: (1) "The Existence of a New
Order;" (2) "Secrets of the Subterranean World;" and (3) "The
Actuality of Extraterrestrial Contact." (See NotiOVNI for May 5,
2002. Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, autor de los libros
Chupacabras and Other Mysteries y Forbidden Mexico, tambien a
Daniel Munoz y Cristian Riffo de Ovnivision Chile para esas
noticias.)


UFO FLAP BREAKS OUT IN ANGOL, CHILE

No sooner had Sixto Paz given his interview than a major UFO
flap broke out around the city of Angol, Chile, located 400
kilometers (250 miles) south of Santiago de Chile, the national
capital. Angol was the site of the most dramatic alien encounter
of the year 2001. (See UFO Roundup, volume 6, number 10 for
March 8, 2001, "Chilean couple's first date turns into an
encounter with aliens," page 2.)

"Restlessness and commotion gripped residents of Angol and its
environs as a result of a wave of unidentified flying objects
recorded in the past few hours, especially in the downtown area
of the city."

"Only yesterday afternoon (Sunday, May 5, 2002) about 15
residents of the town of Cornelio Saavedra were witnesses to
three nearly simultaneous sightings of strange devices that
moved swiftly through the sky, issuing flashes of multi-hued
light, according to the Austral de Araucania (newspaper)."

"The phenomenon was caught on video by ufologist Raul Gajardo,
who has spent over 40 years investigating UFOs in the province
of Malleco."

"It is perhaps worth noting that UFO experts consider the area a
'hot spot' for UFOs given the repeated sightings which occur
every so often and the large number of witnesses who claim
having seen unconventional craft crossing the heavens over the
area."

"According to the information furnished by Gajardo, the first
sighting came at about 7 p.m. when a UFO moving from north to
south made an abrupt dive from an altitude of 300 meters (1,000
feet), only to lose itself in the horizon." "Only minutes after
the event took place, says the ufologist, another reddish object
appeared from the Nahuelbuta mountain range in the vicinity of
Aguas Santas, becoming lost in the clouds."

"At this very instant, a third device remained motionless in the
sky. At first it was mistaken by some for a commercial aircraft.
But in less than a minute, the multi-colored craft began moving
some 60 degrees in a straight line over the mountain range,
without making a sound. Subsequently, it increased its
brightness in five- second intervals and subsequently continued
its trajectory toward the north until it vanished completely,"
Gajardo said.

"To the above-mentioned events can be added three more which
occurred only days ago" in Angol, capital of Malleco province,
"and the adjacent cordillera, which were witnessed by five
students who recorded the phenomenon and by a group of sport
fishermen."

"One of the most startling sightings--compiled and submitted for
analysis by Raul Gajardo--took place in broad daylight on
Friday, April 19, 2002 and was witnessed by five students from
different educational institutions in the city."

"Student Diego Gallegos Cifuentes, 13, pointed out that around 4
p.m. he was headed toward the home of a friend (with his
videocamera--J.T.) to record an event being prepared for
Mother's Day festivities. Cifuentes was accompanied by Israel
Vitta, 13, and Sebastian Oporto, 12."

Cifuentes reported that "when he was about to film his
companions" when "one of them, Carlos Flores, looked at the sky
and noticed a strange object moving from north to south at a
considerable altitude."

"'I recorded it for a few seconds and made a close-up with the
camera's zoom,'" Cifuentes said, "'We all saw the strange
device, which moved slowly for a few seconds before it
vanished.'" A single frame from Cifuentes's video was published
in the newspaper Las Ultimas Noticias for May 6, 2002, showing
the UFO in a clear sky.

"The recording was given to ufologist Gajardo, who pointed out
that it showed a white circular object. 'Its periphery shows six
reddish-brown lights or spheres. It remains in place for a few
seconds before vanishing over the Cerro Guacolda (hill) to the
south of Angol.'" The current UFO flap "began on (Sunday) April
14, 2002 when office worker Luis Rodriguez, 46, was on a salmon-
fishing trip in the Cordillera, geographically between the Mount
Antuco and Mount Copahue volcanoes, accompanied by two friends."

"'In the midst of fishing at around 5 a.m., one of my companions
was the first to realize that towards the south, at some 45
degrees elevation (above the horizon-- J.T.) was a white
luminous object that grew rapidly in size until it reached the
scale of the full moon. The circular device quickly headed south
in a straight line without making any noise,'" Rodriguez
reported.

"Rodriguez added that no sooner had the first object ceased to
be visible than another white brilliant spot appeared toward
Cruz del Sur, growing quickly and behaving in a manner similar
to the first one, also vanishing southward swiftly and
silently." (See the Chilean newspaper Las Ultimas Noticias for
May 6, 2002, "More UFO sightings over Angol." Muchas gracias a
Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para eso articulo de diario.)


UFOs APPEAR TWICE IN NORTHERN ARGENTINA

Argentina, Chile's neighbor to the east, also experienced a
sharp upsurge in UFO activity in the days following Sixto Paz's
interview. Sightings were reported in Salta province, 750
kilometers (450 miles) northwest of Buenos Aires, the national
capital.

"Three motorcyclists from Cachi who were driving along National
Highway 33 informed El Tribuno that they had witnessed 'a
fantastic sight.'"

"'We saw,' said the bikers, 'an enormous cigar-shaped
unidentified flying object (UFO) measuring some 100 meters (330
feet) in length.'"

"Martin Oliver, Ruben Chihan and Antonio Rodo, young bikers
well-known throughout the area claimed that their experience
occurred on Wednesday, May 1, (2002) as they headed back to the
capital (Salta--J.T.)."

"'We want our names to be included because for a long time we've
been hearing similar stories from fellow residents who, out of a
sense of shame or sheer cowardice, do not want their names
printed in the newspaper,' stated the sportsmen."

"'We were finishing the Tin Tin stretch when we saw a strange
light from the east, in the vicinity of Payogasta. We halted our
rides and saw it--an enormous cylinder measuring some 100 meters
in length, shining like a mirror in the reflected light of the
setting sun. It was shaped like a giant cigarette and flew
slowly some 200 meters (660 feet) from the ground. We couldn't
believe it, but it was real. It made no noise whatsoever and
appeared to be made of a material similar to polished steel,'
the cyclists reported. 'Suddenly, it stopped and remained
suspended in mid-air. A few seconds later, it began flying at an
astonishing speed and lost itself in space.'"

Cachi is located 150 kilometers (90 miles) west- southwest of
Salta.

(Editor's Note: In recent months, Cachi has been the site of
significant UFO activity. See UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 11
for March 12, 2002, "Strange phenomena seen at Cachi,
Argentina," page 4.)

And then, "an unidentified flying object, compared by many to an
aerolite or comet, was seen yesterday morning (Thursday, May 9,
2002) in Embarcacion," a small city on the Rio Teuco about 250
kilometers (150 miles) northeast of Salta.

"'It's like a comet. Its forward section is dark, but a tail of
fire some 100 meters (330 feet) long could be seen,' reported
Pablo Ruiz at 7:20 a.m. on (Radio) FM Manantial," as the object
flew over the city.

"'It moves from north to south,' he added, transmitting details
of the sighting for over five minutes and interviewing (by
telephone) a number of eyewitnesses."

"The broadcast caused unrest among many, who abandoned their
houses to see the phenomenon for themselves. The story reached
the public through the Linea Directa program, hosted by
journalist Martin Matamoros from 7 to 8 a.m."

"'I was doing errands on my bicycle when I saw 'the thing','
said lottery vendor Adolfo Delgado, 'It flew very high in the
air and its enormous fiery tail was clearly visible. I reported
it to the police, who came out for a look. Students from the
Escuela Juan Carlos Davalos (school) were also looking and said
that it must be an airliner in flames, but it made no noise
whatsoever,' said Delgado."

"Journalist Matamoros observed that 'the event reminds me of a
similar one in 1993. People saw, as they did today, a fireball
crossing the sky towards Lot 75, where there is a native
settlement (reservation for indigenous people--J.T.) Many
reported that something had fallen in the vicinity, so we
organized a search. We found nothing, but there were two large
circles, some 6 meters (20 feet) in diameter, within which
everything was burned. A similar fate had befallen the local
tree boughs. The prints (circles) resembled something that might
have been made by two giant red-hot (steel) washers.'" (See the
Argentinian newspaper El Tribuno for May 6, 2002, "Cigar-shaped
UFO spotted along Highway 33 near Cachi," and for May 10, 2002,
"'Fireball' lights skies over Embarcacion." Muchas gracias a
Scott Corrales y Mercedes Casas para eso articulos de diario.)


FLASHING UFO SPOTTED IN NOTTINGHAMSHIRE, UK

On Sunday, May 5, 2002, at 3 a.m., Clive Howe was in the bedroom
of his home in Bingham, Nottinghamshire, UK when he saw a
strange light in the sky moving very slowly.

"At a little after 3 a.m. in the morning," Clive reported, "I
looked out my bedroom window and saw a flashing light which at
first I thought to be a light aircraft. It was approximately two
miles (3.2 kilometers) away and at an altitude of a couple of
thousand feet. As I watched, I realized that the object wasn't
moving, and the light's flashing was more erratic than that of
an aircraft. Two smaller lights then appeared on either side of
the object and moved outwards from the main body. These remained
in position for the rest of the sighting."

"I fetched my binoculars and could clearly see clusters of
different coloured lights flashing at varying intensities
(green, orange, yellow, red--C.H.)  The shape appeared to be a
saucer. I woke my girlfriend who looked and confirmed what I had
seen."

"I then fetched my digital camera and photographed the object as
best I could. I heard no sound and detected no smell. The object
remained in the same position for over an hour. I stopped
watching as dawn approached and light cloud began to obscure the
object." (Email Form Report)


LUMINOUS UFOs SIGHTED EAST OF MEXICO CITY

On Friday, May 10, 2002, between 4 and 5 a.m., Mexican ufologist
Gerardo Sanchez was out skywatching in Central de Abastos, a
suburb east of Mexico City, when he suddenly saw a strange glow
in the sky. Sanchez reported, "Luminous UFOs were seen hovering
over Cerro de la Estrella (hill), to the east of Mexico City.
Unusually heavy UFO activity was observed, and these sightings
have increased in recent weeks." (See NotiOVNI for May 12, 2002.
Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz para esa historia.)


CUBAN UFO GROUP MEETS TO CELEBRATE ANNIVERSARY

On Sunday, May 12, 2002, Cuban ufologists met in Artemisa, a
town 60 kilometers (36 miles) west of Havana, to celebrate the
first anniversary of the founding of an organization called
Grupo de Investigacion de Fenomenos Anomalos Orion.

GIFA-Orion is the first UFO study group in Cuba since the fall
of President Fulgencio Batista in January 1959. "GIFA-Orion
president Miguel Mendez Diaz addressed the gathering of
enthusiastic ufologists, who are interested in studying UFOs and
other paranormal phenomena. During the dinner meeting, the
members discussed over 20 ongoing investigations into UFO
sightings in Cuba and the waters around the Caribbean island."
(See NotiOVNI for May 12, 2002. Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz
para esa historia.)


VIRGIN MARY APPEARS AT A SMALL CHURCH IN GERMANY

"More and more visitors are coming to the village church of St.
John the Baptist in Sievernich. Not waves of pilgrims yet, but
in Sievernich, a district of Vettwei, in the Voreifel (forest)
near Bonn, the influx of visitors is increasing. The village has
460 residents, about 360 of whom are Roman Catholic."

"Just past the door on the left stands a Fatima Madonna (a
statue of Our Lady of Fatima--J.T.). Candles lit by earlier
visitors burn in front of it. The apparition is supposed to have
occurred to the left of the main altar. The small church that
holds more than 150 is bright and friendly, carefully cleaned
and lovingly taken care of."

"For some time now, hundreds of people have been gathering here
on Mondays for the meeting of the Marian prayer group, Blue
Prayer Oasis."

"There is talk of miracle healings and visions of the Virgin
Mary who is said to dictate messages to a 35-year- old visionary
named Manuela."

"Word spread quickly among the wide circle of those who venerate
the Virgin. More than 1,000 visitors and worshipers were present
at the last prayer meeting, but no one dares to predict how many
will turn up at the next one on May 13, the highest Marian holy
day. It is the (85th) anniversary of the visions at Fatima (in
Portugal in 1917) and of the attempted assassination of Pope
John Paul II in 1981."

"Father Heribert Kleemann, who celebrates his 52nd birthday this
week, plays down the situation. Nothing unusual happens, he
says, and there is nothing wrong with people gathering to pray.
But neither does the clergyman think it is anything special if
Heaven opens up a crack. After all, as a priest, he is in an
interface between the earthly and the divine worlds."

"Father Kleemann has been the (parish) priest in Sievernich for
18 years. When celebrating Mass, he follows the (traditional
Roman Catholic) liturgy strictly. He is a firm adherent of the
Pope and the Church who does not think much of the many
committees, councils and votes."

"He also venerates the Virgin Mary (who was born Miriam bat-
Joachim in Nazareth around 15 B.C.), whom he regards as a role
model for the Church. ' Cum Petro, per Mariam, ad Jesum' (Latin
for With Peter, through Mary, to Jesus --J.T.) is his motto."

"It hardly seems coincidental that it was to Father Kleemann
that Manuela came two years ago with reports of her visions and
to ask for a room for her prayer group. She had been sent to
Sievernich, she said. Father Kleemann noticed even then that
Manuela, who made an 'absolutely credible' impression, obviously
had a special relationship with the other world."

(Editor's Comment: Now this is interesting. Manuela's contact
with Miriam began two years ago, right after seeress Credonia
Mwerinde and her followers were wiped out in Uganda. If her
seers are martyred, Miriam will simply find another visionary.
For the full story, see UFO Roundup, volume 5, number 12 for
March 23, 2000, "Mysterious explosion caused the fire at the
church in Uganda," page 1, and UFO Roundup, volume 5, number 13
for March 30, 2000, "Uganda declares sect deaths 'mass murder,'"
page 1.)

"The messages received by Manuela were not erroneous and did not
violate the (Roman Catholic) church's teachings. Moreover, they
broadly corresponded to his own views about the church."

"As it is perfectly appropriate for Christians to meet for
prayer, Father Kleemann invited the group to Sievernich. Every
Monday evening, Mass is celebrated, and before that, at 5 p.m.,
the Rosary is said. After the Mass, Father Kleemann says a
prayer for healing in accordance with the rites of the church."

"In the beginning, the prayer group consisted of 10 to 15
members. Slowly but steadily, its numbers increased. What
impressed Father Kleemann was the large number of young people
between the ages of 16 and 30. Many of them made increasing
demands on him to hear their confessions, a further indication
that he was dealing with people who took their faith seriously.
Father Kleemann could no longer cope with the number of
confessions he was asked to hear and appealed to his colleagues
for help."

"Nobody outside Sievernich or the odd Marian circle was aware of
what was going on until the bishop's office in Aachen made an
inquiry. Father Kleemann submitted his report, and the (Roman
Catholic) diocese was satisfied. Only after the media discovered
'the Virgin in Sievernich,' and over 1,000 people besieged the
small church did the private prayer meeting threaten to come
apart."

"The bishop sent a commissioner, Father Hermann-Josef Beckers,
to Sievernich. He and Father Kleemann quickly reached an
agreement--probably for different reasons--not to make too much
of the thing. Neither of them wants the prayer meeting to be
commercialized."

"'We do not sell candies or even rosaries here,' the priest
says, 'And neither does the commissioner see anything
disreputable going on. Nobody is forced to attend these meetings
or to believe."

"The Virgin does not need to come to Sievernich to pass on her
message, Father Beckers says. Both men agree that the content of
the messages is simple, their language characterized by 'a
beautiful simplicity,' as Father Kleemann says. They deal with
contemporary issues, war and peace, and call upon believers to
pray and to remain faithful to the Pope and the Church."

"Before the messages are published, Father Kleemann receives a
written copy that he reads to the bishop in Aachen where they
are collected. There are no secret messages that have to be kept
under lock and key, only 'a sermon from Heaven,' as Father
Kleemann says."

"Earlier, Manuela, who avoids the media and who permits neither
photographs nor voice recordings of herself, received her
visions at prayer meetings in the church. She fell into a
trance-like state which was apparent to those around her. Her
eyes closed, her lips moved, and she wrote down the messages
that she received." (Editor's Comment: From the description, it
sounds like what happened to Conchita Gonzalez during the
apparitions at Garabandal, Spain in 1963.)

"Now there is no room left for the 'visionary' in the church. It
is so packed that the doors to the confessional cannot even be
opened. Manuela (now) follows the prayers from the sacristy 'so
that she has room to write.'"

"From there, she sees what cannot be seen--the altar, and to the
left, in a ray of light, the Virgin Mary. She (Manuela)
identifies and describes people whom she has never met and who
are seated in the nave of the church, which she cannot see
into."

"The phenomenon is not unknown. So far, nobody has thought of
declaring Sievernich to be a place of pilgrimage. But the
pilgrims come anyway. After May 13, (2002) the messages will
come to a temporary end until October, the month of the Rosary.
Why Mary will be taking a vacation in the summer is only one of
the many unanswered questions concerning the visions in
Sievernich." (See the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine
for April 25, 2002, "Pilgrims flock to the site of alleged
German apparitions." Many thanks to Louise A. Lowry and Gerry
Lovell for forwarding the newspaper article.)

(Editor's Comment: If he's up to it, Pope John Paul II might
want to be in Sievernich on October 13, 2002, to welcome Miriam
personally. It's only a short airplane ride over the Alps. I
notice that these apparitions took place in St. John the Baptist
Church. For some strange reason, St. John's Day--June 24--is a
red-letter day for paranormal phenomena. Example: Kenneth Arnold
had his encounter with silvery "flying saucers" near Mount
Rainier on June 24, 1947. It will be interesting to see if
anything unusual happens in Sievernich on June 24.)


TARGET: TRURO, MASS. THE PLANNED GERMAN D-DAY OF 1902

"Kaiser Wilhelm II planned an audacious seaborne assault on New
York City and other U.S. ports a century ago to sweep aside
American sea power and open the Pacific for German colonial
conquest, a newspaper reported last week."

"Striving for world power status, the (German) emperor and his
admirals drew up various plans for assaults on New York City,
Boston and other cities, the Die Zeit weekly reported, citing
what it said were little- known documents in German military
archives."

"Records and letters sent by military commanders showed that the
plan foundered on skepticism among the German army's top brass
as well as U.S. naval muscle and rising tension in Europe that
forced Germany to focus on rivals (France and Russia--J.T.)
closer to home."

"The idea of attacking the East Coast of the United States was
first sketched in 1898 by a young naval officer named Eberhard
von Mantey, the report said."

"His first plan foresaw surprise attacks on ports between
Portland, Maine and Norfolk, Virginia, to force the United
States into negotiations and give Germany a free hand in the
Pacific."

"In 1900, the German parliament (Reichstag) passed a bill
allowing a doubling of the fleet." Grossadmiral Otto von
Diedrichs, commander of the Kriegsmarine (German Navy)
"presented the Kaiser with a proposal to attack Boston, New York
City or both from a bridgehead on Cape Cod, Mass."

As part of the plan, German troops would have been rushed ashore
in Truro and Wellfleet, two natural harbors on Cape Cod. After
siezing control of both towns, the German fleet would use the
two harbors as a springboard for the attacks on New York City
and Boston.

Clearly thinking ahead of his time, von Mantey speculated that
Zeppelins might be used to carry the German battalion ashore
after dark. This would have allowed the German fleet to stay out
of sight beyond the eastern horizon, well out of range of the
USA's formidable Coast Artillery guns.

"But the plan hit a major obstacle in 1901 when army chief Field
Marshal Alfred von Schlieffen insisted that at least 100,000
troops would be needed for the expedition-- an impossible burden
for Germany." (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for May 12,
2002, "German kaiser planned attacks on Boston, New York a
century ago," page 15A.) (Editor's Note: John Bouvier, the
father of Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis and the grandfather
of John F. Kennedy Jr., served in the Coast Artillery in World
War I. He was stationed in North Carolina.)


  From the UFO Files...


1909: UFOs FLY OVER SHIPS ON THE NORTH SEA


The year 1909 saw many UFO sightings in UK as well as in the
USA's six states of the Northeast and the Otago coast of New
Zealand's South Island. British ufologist Carl Grove has
documented 43 cases of "airships"--as UFOs were called a century
ago--most of them cigar-shaped, flying over cities and towns in
UK during May of 1909.

Here are two newspaper reports from the period:

"A Norwegian trading vessel (the S.S. St. Olaf--J.T.) was a
short way out from Blyth, Northumberland (UK) when a large
airship carrying five searchlights suddenly appeared. Hovering
above the St. Olaf, it directed all its lights onto the
steamer's bridge. It was within hail, Captain Egenes reported,
but gave no answer to the challenge, and in the glare of the
searchlights, no detail could be seen."

"Suddenly, the airship swung off after another steamer a mile or
so away, and directed the searchlights upon that. It afterward
made off at a sharp rate towards the south." (See the East
Anglian Daily Times for May 19, 1909.)

And here's one from Newport, Monmouth, Wales, UK:

"G. Beanland and A.V. Day, at the local flour mill, sighted a
cigar-shaped object stationary over Newport Bridge, shortly
after 1 a.m. Searchlights flashed from each end on to the
bridge. After ten minutes, one of the lights went out, and the
object flew off toward Stow Hill." (See the South Wales Daily
News of Cardiff for May 17, 1909. See also Mysterious Visitors
by Brinsley Le Poer Trench, Stein and Day Publishers, New York,
N.Y., 1978, page 99.)


The countdown has started. The premiere of the new Star Wars
movie is only hours away. Already I've heard complaints from
hard-core Jedis that the waterfall scene between Anikin
Skywalker and Padme Amidala looks too much like Harlequin in
Space. But, come on! We have to have some romance in the movie.
We can't have a seven-hour film with nothing but droids,
saucers, robots and planets blowing up.

I just thought of something. C3PO was created by Anikin
Skywalker, right? Anikin eventually becomes Darth Vader, who is
the father of Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia. Well, if Anikin
is C3PO's "father," then that makes C3PO Luke and Leia's
"brother." What a concept. My Brother, The Robot. Hmmmm, I'd
better stop now before this turns into a situation comedy on
NBC.

Well, if we survive the asteroid run, we'll be back next week
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   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 16

              Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:27:49 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:53:06 -0400
Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -


 >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:41:52 -0600
 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast
 >To: UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 20:29:23 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
 >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -

 >>>Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:10:58 -0600
 >>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>>Subject: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast
 >>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

 ><snip>

 >>Does Keel's radio broadcast actually mentions about a crashed
 >>flying saucer and bodies recovered in Roswell, New Mexico?

 >Hi Nick,

 >Yes, it most certainly does.

 >The knowledge of an alleged crash and recovery of an alien disc
 >and bodies near Roswell has been known for a lot longer than
 >Berlitz/Cooper and Friedman/Randle release of their research.
 >They were, of course, the first researchers to bring the
 >incident to the public at large and into the larger researcher
 >population.

I have a real problem here and am anxious to hear the broadcast.
Keel made big noises about Roswell being a FUGO balloon, in Fate
Magazine, a number of years ago. Both Kevin Randle and I filed
responses. Keel also was claiming that Goddard was doing his
rocket research near Aztec... even though it was 300 miles
Southeast near Roswell where there is a Goddard High School and
Goddard Museum. He seemed to have a problem with NM geography
among other things. Does anybody know if Scully ever talked
about Roswell? Aside from this anxiously awaited broadcast, did
Keel ever say anything positive about Roswell and aliens??

Also, I am curious as to what Berlitz/Cooper refers to. Who is
Cooper? Was this supposed to mean Berlitz and Bill Moore's 1980
book 'The Roswell Incident'? Bill and I did 90% of the research.
Bill Moore and I also did several MUFON Symposia papers about
Roswell 1980-1985. Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt's 1991 book was
'UFO Crash at Roswell'. I don't think Kevin and I ever
co-authored anything...

 >It is important to look at this information strictly from an
 >historical viewpoint at the beginning of modern Ufology, which
 >is traced directly to Maj. Donald E. Keyhoe's article in True
 >magazine in January, 1950. Frank Scully presented his material
 >that same year, but Scully's credibility was lacking even then.

 >However, most Ufologists (and there were not many at this time)
 >such as Keyhoe, Isabel Davis, Idabel Epperson, etc. were aware
 >of the changes being observed within the phenomenon dealing with
 >humanoids and crashed discs, but careful not to embrace the high
 >strangeness aspects without proper documentation and analysis.
 >They dismissed, and rightly so, the early Contactees and their
 >acceptance of the humanoid factor was developed over a long
 >period of time.


Maybe Dick Hall can provide some insight about Keyhoe's and
NICAP's awareness of Roswell ,aside from Frank Edwards passing
and inaccurate mention in "Flying Saucers Serious Business" and
Ted Bloecher's dismissal as a hoax in his "UFO Wave of 1947". I
am a bit mystified here.


Stan Friedman







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 16

               Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:47:31 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:55:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hall


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 01:02:02 -0500

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:08:22 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >>>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 03:30:16 -0500

 >>>Some people may consider photographs of UFO's as "hard evidence"
 >>>while others may not. It all depends on what each individual
 >>>considers as "evidence" as well as "hard evidence". Let's face
 >>>it, there are no clear guidelines or criteria for establishing
 >>>whether or not a photograph of an alleged UFO is genuine or
 >>>fake. At best all we have are the analyses (opinions) of those
 >>>we trust to tell us what they think a photograph is or is not
 >>>based on their background and abilities in the art of
 >>>photoanalysis.

 >>>There are no machines or computers that we can put these
 >>>photographs through to determine, beyond doubt, which images are
 >>>real and which are not. I wish such a machine existed but it
 >>>does not.

 >>>So the bottom line is there is no way to prove a photograph is
 >>>genuine or fake and no way to prove an image is of a genuine UFO
 >>>or a hoax. If there were a way to prove these contentions, this
 >>>List would have solved these mysteries long ago.

 >>The fallacy of your argument is that science or scientific
 >>method never 'proves' anything. All conclusions are tentative
 >>and subject to constant review.

 >One cannot _prove_ anything. This IS the basic premise of
 >scientific method. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone can "prove" an
 >image is of a genuine UFO anymore than anyone can "prove" there
 >are aliens in that UFO. The best we, as researchers, can do is
 >present our analyses, data and evidence supporting our
 >contentions. Whether others agree or disagree is up to each
 >individual. But one cannot _prove_ anything in an infinite and
 >varied universe because what may seem like "proof" may be
 >relative to the reality in which that "proof" is perceived and
 >that reality may not be the only reality.

 >>But if you are seriously arguing
 >>that anyone's opinion is equally valid with that of anyone else,
 >>I respectfully but strongly disagree.

 >Nope, never said that.

 >I said, "At best all we have are the analyses (opinions) of
 >those we trust to tell us what they think a photograph is or is
 >not based on their background and abilities in the art of
 >photoanalysis."

 >Some people are more qualified, like Dr. Maccabee and Jeff
 >Sainio, to analyse photographs and I give greater weight to
 >their opinions because they have been trained and have
 >experience in photoanalysis. I have called on them for their
 >analyses in several cases and have found them well qualified and
 >very professional.

 >And in the future, should new information come to light, these
 >learned gentlemen would be the first to evaluate and analyze all
 >components without bowing to pride or ego needs that seem to
 >plague so many in the UFO community.

 >A. Hebert

Amy,

We are pretty much in agreement about scientific method.

However, one factor you seem to be leaving out of the equation
is that scientific consensus is possible and does occur, and
that some theories, hypotheses, or opinions are much better
grounded than others and (in the case of theories) for most
practical purposes are tantamount to proof. They become accepted
as 'truth' unless and until new evidence casts them into doubt.

So I don't quite agree that it is up to each individual to
decide what is true. Science is a social, consensus process.

Also, lesser informed and less scientifically oriented
individuals are less likely to be as close to truth as possible
than better informed and more scientific individuals.


  - Dick







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   May > May 17

              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:55:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez


 >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - King
 >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:09:17 +0000

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:58:38 -0400
 >>Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 ><snip>

 >>I have had multiple sightings. The only way I have available to
 >>me to record these events (to prove I saw 'something') is by
 >>using film or videotape. Over the years I have reported _only_
 >>those sighting events that I was able to either photograph or
 >>videotape. I figured if I couldn't at least back up the sighting
 >>report with a little recorded material, it would only become
 >>'another' in a long line of 'uninvestigated' UFO sighting
 >>reports.

 >>In short, a waste of time.

 >>It seems that the problem in accepting photographic evidence
 >>lies more in the meaning that becomes attached to it rather than
 >>the fact that it is evidence for the presence of something
 >>*unexplainable. (*in any prosaic terms.) The question should not
 >>be; does any particular photo depict an 'alien' craft from
 >>'outer space', as much as; does the photo or videotape depict a
 >>solid and unidentifiable flying object? How much substantiation
 >>does photographic evidence lend to a witness report?

 >>Stripped of the 'hot button' emotions that claims of 'aliens'
 >>and 'spacemen/women' generate, un-hoaxed photos _are_ 'hard'
 >>evidence for the presence of something strange. If nothing else,
 >>it is a corroboration for the sighting report.

Hiya Tom,

You responded:

 >Johnny and List,

 >I certainly see your point here and feel your pain. It seems all
 >evidence is questioned whenever the term UFO is attached to that
 >evidence. Suddenly a double standard is kicked into play. A
 >video camera recording a crime is vital evidence but the same
 >camera, tape, and person are suspect if they point it up in the
 >sky and tape something strange.

Eureka! Finally! You've hit the nail squarely on the head!

Man, it took another (UFO) photographer to understand what I was
talking about in the original post. Yes, exactly! Mind you, I
went out of my way to state _clearly_ that I wasn't claiming
that the pix and video were 'proof' for "Aliens" from "outer
space" or even "machines" that were manufactured on "another
planet." Yet that is how many chose to interpret it anyway. In
spite of my best efforts to avoid having to argue that rather
'obvious' point. A 'point' that I conceded (because it's true)
up front.

My original post (as _all_ posts have a way of doing) took on a
life of its own and I'm getting feedback from people on all
kinds of _unrelated_ issues. Several based on a misreading or
misunderstanding of what was being said. I appreciate all the
responses and the time that people took out of their daily
routine in order to answer. But I should have known that only
another sky watcher/photographer would be able to understand
precisely what was being said without my having to clarify and
explain 'what I meant' over and over again. I was beginning to
wonder if I was writing in ancient Aramaic or something! :)

 >There is a doublestandard from
 >the media, scientists, and government on this entire subject.
 >That doesn't mean its not important evidence or a waste of time.

See, you understand that, and I understand that, but way too
many others don't. Those pictures and video _are_ visual
corroboration for our reports. Nothing more... but nothing less.
In an earlier post I said the same thing you said:

Eleanor wrote:

 >>Photographs are evidence, period. If they weren't, why does
 >>every police department use them to back up their cases?

And I responded:

 >Try telling that to someone who is looking at a photo of a
 >"UFO" and not the mangled body of some poor accident victim.

Again, (just to get it the hell out of the way/discussion) -
  nobody is claiming that photos or video are proof of "alien
space craft." But... if a recorded image of a crime scene is
good enough to use as corroboration for a crime report, (in a
court of law) why isn't it good enough to corroborate a "UFO"
sighting report? That simple question seems to have caused more
confusion than you can shake your ding-a-ling at.

Some of the stuff that you and Mike, Jason, Bill Hamilton and
others (myself included) have captured on film and tape over the
years can stand up to careful scrutiny. I managed to get some of
my stuff analyzed by Jeff Saino (but only because Budd Hopkins
submitted it for me) and he couldn't "identify" the objects as
anything prosaic or easily explainable. At that point the film
and video become _corroboration_ for the sighting report and
excellent candidates for further study/analysis.

As we both know, that isn't the case. The sighting reports are
soon forgotten, the pictures and video get dismissed, and we are
left to our own devices and self-motivation to keep plugging
away and recording these 'things' anyway. Kind of like 'auto-
  erotica' without the 'payoff.' Know what I mean? :)

 >The shocking tapes of those planes flying into the towers are
 >now a piece of history. The multiple videos recorded the
 >terrorist event from many different angles. Those tapes could
 >provide allot of data, angle of the plane, speed, time, and
 >size.

 >This is no different than the dozen or so people who recorded
 >Bubba in Arizona last year. We had all types of cameras
 >employed. Telescopes, BETA SP, Sony handcams, 35mm, and digital
 >cameras were used. We recorded Bubba from so many angles that
 >split screen playback reveals allot of data and helps rule out
 >what its not. Many, many jets flew around and close to Bubba
 >back then.

 >I consider this important data as we documented one of the best
 >sightings in the last decade.

And you are absolutely right, it _is_ documented 'data' of the
best sightings of the last decade. But we are in a minority with
our opinion. I wish I could round up a few folks that are in
fairly close proximity to me (that also own and know how to
operate the right equipment) so that I can triangulate some of
these sightings.

BTW, if there are any Listerions in the Queens/Brooklyn/Long
Island area that are interested in forming a skywatch group like
Tom has created in Phoenix contact me at this address!

Whenever Tom or any one of the guys has a sighting they can
simply call each other and get two,three or more cameras on
these objects simultaneously. I'd like to set-up something
similar here in New York City.

I wrote in the original post:

 >>I have invested hundreds of my hard-earned dollars in
 >>photographic equipment. Money, that as a family man, could
 >>always have been better spent elsewhere. If photographs and
 >>videotape are not considered acceptable evidence, then why
 >>bother recording the strange objects in the sky at all?

You respond:

 >Oh yes Johnny, if we could only get back all that money we sink
 >into the field.

 ><CHER>begin play 'If I could turn back time'</CHER>

 >Only hundreds John, that's it? It's not much, I figured you for
 >thousands like many people who are readying this.

It is _thousands_ Tommy. I didn't count my 8 inch Celestron and
a whole bunch of other stuff because I bought it for astronomy
originally. I went out and bought a Cannon 35mm SLR with a
telephoto lens, a dedicated 500mm telephoto, and a Sony digital
videocam specifically for recording UFOs. If you add in the rest
of it, the telescope, tripods, lenses, adapters etc., etc., etc,
it easily adds up to 'thousands' of dollars spent. And all for
something that gets blown off and ignored on the other end!
_That_ is the real source of the frustration for me. More 'auto-
  erotica' without the 'payoff.' ;)

 >So your efforts to videotape or photograph a UFO aren't a waste
 >of time in my opinion. There are many things you do to those
 >video and elements you can extract and post. It can be a waste
 >of time depending on how you reflect back on your life. Atleast
 >you picked up your videocamera tried to gain further insight to
 >what you're seeing and that's more than most do. So my hats off
 >to you for trying and taping them damn UFOs.

I know Tom. What you say is true. I just can't wait for the rest
of the world to 'catch up' and realize that what we are
recording is way out of the ordinary. Or we wouldn't be shooting
it and reporting it. People think we get our rocks off by
reporting and photographing party balloons. What a waste.


Warmest regards to you and the boys,

John Velez







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   May > May 17

              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:06:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:15:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez


 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 00:32:48 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>I would like a clearer definition of the role that photographic
 >>evidence plays in establishing the reality of the presence of
 >>UFOs on our world. And let's leave aside any consideration of
 >>who is building and piloting these craft or where they may be
 >>from. Let's just speak of the photographs as evidence that real
 >>and solid, unknown, objects are circumnavigating our skies.

 >>Any takers?

Hi Dave,

You wrote:

 >I know you asked to leave aside who's piloting these things but
 >as you well know one strong belief is that the UFO is from
 >another World. This then creates a link between the UFO and the
 >alien abductors.

Yes it does. I agree. But we need to address first things first.
Before we can begin to speculate about the origins, pilots (if any)
or manufacturers of UFOs we have to try to establish the
reality of their presence for the general public. They _are_ the
ones who we are (allegedly) doing this for right? I least I think
so. The ultimate source for reports of UFOs are the witnesses.
Why, if some of these witnesses are taking the time to record
these sightings, are the resulting photos or videotape not
good candidates for corroboration of the report?

If somebody smacked me over the melon with a brick, and some one
else took 'close-up' pictures of the event, the photos would
weigh in heavily against the perpetrator at his trial. However,
as Tom King so aptly put it; If that same guy points the same
camera at the sky and captures an image(s) of a silver metallic
disc performing aerobatic tricks, and he/she reports same, for
some unfathomable reason the pictures won't mean -squat-.

That's what I'm trying to understand and the source of my own
frustration as a witness. One that records the sightings of
these 'objects.' Why are the pictures suddenly no good as
corroboration? What is the difference?

 >Over the years I have asked various UFO researchers:
 >
 >Why is it there is a ton of photographic/video/film and even
 >radar evidence of unexplained objects in the skies but none of
 >the aliens themselves?
 >
 >In this day and age of CCTV, motion detector alarm systems (you
 >can get from your local Tandy's) right down to your own cat and
 >dog, nothings detected.
 >
 >The answer I get is:
 >
 >"The aliens obviously have a superior technology that allows
 >them to move undetected and unseen"

Although that is a convenient answer for a 'proponent' there
_is_ 'some' truth to it if you consider the many reports that
involve household or automotive electricity being interrupted.
All the devices you mentioned are electrical in nature.

Car motors, electrical system failures, even the neutralization
of nuclear weapons systems has been a part of UFO contact
reports almost since day one. So to for the abduction reports.
Just one of the 'ubiquitous' details that often accompanies
abduction reports has to do with electrical failures during the
event. Either in the home or in the car etc.

The people who offer up the convenient 'excuse' (reason) why
aliens go undetected is just that, convenient. Not a one of them
knows for certain that such a thing is true. No one can state
such a thing as 'fact' with any real authority. Although, as I
mentioned, there are 'indicators' in the reports that the
perpetrators of the abductions are 'somehow' managing to
neutralize electrical devices/systems. That _would_ explain
why camcorders, household alarm systems and the like aren't
very effective.

The flip-side of that is; that anyone intentionally monitoring
an abductee would know that an event of some kind took place if
the equipment should suddenly shut down. That, in and of itself,
could possibly be the only real 'alarm' that can ever be
devised.

It would be neat to have a whole swat team of investigators
loaded with equipment parked in a house directly across the
street during such an 'event.' ;)

We digress. This isn't about how to catch an alien, it has to do
with how much weight recorded images that accompany UFO sighting
reports may have. (Should have)

 >If these people are right then it's obvious the UFO is not
 >related or they'd employ the same technology. After all what's
 >the point in activating your stealth belts if the ship you came
 >in on shows up like Battlestar Galactica on the defence grid!

 >If these people are wrong... well that opens a whole new can of
 >worms.

<LOL>True.

 >Photographic evidence is important, it adds to the pot but until
 >we can catch one all we can do is look and (camera ready)
 >record.

Which is what I and several others have been doing all along
Dave.

 >I know the UFO is a real thing, I've seen two in my time.

If people weren't already convinced that my elevator doesn't quite
make it to the top floor... I'd tell you how many times I have seen
them. :)

 >Lets get some answers. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition/

I like that man! I like your spirit. If the petition is to have
a shot in hell of succeeding we need many more like you willing
to do the work of spreading the word. Thank you Dave. Your help
is greatly appreciated. :)


Regards,

John Velez







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   May > May 17

              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:19:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:17:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez


 >From: Minna Hyvonen <minna.hyvonen@kolumbus.fi>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 07:16:05 +0300
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hyvonen

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:13:20 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 ><snip>

 >>You wrote:

 >>That's true. But that isn't what I was talking about or trying
 >>to imply. If a photo or a videotape of of a sighting cannot be
 >>considered as corroborative evidence for a sighting report, it
 >>begs the question; "Why bother recording the event at all?" I
 >>was laboring under the delusion that if I managed to 'record'
 >>the events on film or tape that I was doing a 'good thing' (the
 >>'right' thing) in order to provide 'corroboration' for the
 >>report. The camera is a second witness in my eyes.

 >I don=ABt agree with you about the claim in your last sentence,
 >John. Camera isn=ABt a witness, it=ABs only a recorder of the
 >object. It is a extension of your eye, not another eye. It
 >records what you order it to record. It is impartial. It shows
 >what it saw, but in court it can=ABt sware that you saw the same.
 >It only can tell what it saw.

 >>It should be
 >>considered as such. According to what I'm hearing, myself and
 >>others are simply wasting our time recording these events and
 >>wasting our money on expensive photographic equipment.

 >No no, John, don=ABt lower your "guns" yet. Even you may not catch
 >the ufo, the hard evidence for the 'presence' of something out
 >of the ordinary, you may catch something rare, like happened in
 >Finland. To curious list-members: see the following url. If you
 >wish the  translation about the text I can ask from UFO-Finland
 >permit to do so (I=ABm part of the folks there, so I think it
 >could be arranged). By clicking the pictures you`ll see bigger-
 >ones.

 >http://www.ufofinland.net/arkisto/2000/savovalo.html

 >So John, once again; according to my opinion: your "hobby" of
 >photos and tapes isn=ABt no-good and worth of nothing - unless
 >your only motive is to capture - quoting you on the message
 >dated 9.5.02: "hard evidence for the 'presence' of something out
 >of the ordinary.UFOs."

 >>Please allow me to clarify something.

 >>I don't record the events to prove to anyone that "UFOs" are
 >>'space ships' being built and piloted by 'aliens' from another
 >>world. That is something that Amy and yourself have
 >>'interjected' into the discussion. The reason that _I_ record
 >>the sightings to is to provide _corroboration_
 >>(photographic/visually) for the sighting. (What I saw.)

 >As we know how difficult it is to researchers sometimes to get
 >any physical evidence - or material that may become that- I
 >think it is good thing, that you John evaluate your "cases" and
 >in that way you are easening the work of the researchers.


Hi Minna,

Thank you for your thoughtful response and the warm
encouragement. I will continue to document (as best I can) any
sightings I may have.

Maybe some day somebody will actually gather up all of the photo
and video recordings that are available and systematically
catalog and hopefully evaluate them all. Monumental task. But
one that needs doing. _Before_ the work pile gets any higher. :)

Warm regards,

John Velez







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                              Stolen Documents

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 21:41:16 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:20:02 -0400
Subject: Stolen Documents


Please be aware that some documents have been stolen from a
British ufologist. They consist of personal correspondence
to/from Sir Victor Goddard and Brinsley Le Poer Trench (Earl of
Clancarty) and have references to ufology in them.

If anyone is offered similar items for sale or publication,
please stall, and let me know via email.

Unfortunately, I can't be more specific at this time, but there
can't be many such documents in circulation.....


Cheers,

Joe







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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:49:04 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:21:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - White


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:47:31 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<snip>

 >Also, lesser informed and less scientifically oriented
 >individuals are less likely to be as close to truth as possible
 >than better informed and more scientific individuals.

...except in regard to classes of events where the tendency of
seniour scientists to think they know it all  causes such
'better informed' or 'more scientific' individuals to purposely
ignore evidence. UFOlogy being a prime example.


Eleanor White







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             Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 19:07:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:31:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Maccabee


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:13:20 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?


 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 00:03:13 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<snip>

 >>Amy has the jist of it. It took me many years to realize it, but
 >>the bottom line is this: a photo a UFO does not make.

 >That's true. But that isn't what I was talking about or trying
 >to imply. If a photo or a videotape of of a sighting cannot be
 >considered as corroborative evidence for a sighting report, it
 >begs the question; "Why bother recording the event at all?" I
 >was laboring under the delusion that if I managed to 'record'
 >the events on film or tape that I was doing a 'good thing' (the
 >'right' thing) in order to provide 'corroboration' for the
 >report. The camera is a second witness in my eyes. It should be
 >considered as such. According to what I'm hearing, myself and
 >others are simply wasting our time recording these events and
 >wasting our money on expensive photographic equipment.

 >Please allow me to clarify something.

 >I don't record the events to prove to anyone that "UFOs" are
 >space ships' being built and piloted by 'aliens' from another
 >world. That is something that Amy and yourself have
 >'interjected' into the discussion. The reason that _I_ record
 >the sightings to is to provide _corroboration_
 >(photographic/visually) for the sighting. (What I saw.) If after
 >a careful analysis it can be determined that the objects
 >depicted in any given photo or videotape are genuine "unknowns"
 >(as in; not pictures of airplanes, birds, or weather balloons,
 >etc.) then they should be considered for further investigation
 >and acknowledged as corroboration for the sighting report.

 >Again, just to be clear, I am not saying that photo or video is
 >evidence of vehicles from 'outer space' or that they are built
 >and piloted by ET. We can all deal with that question another
 >time.

 >It is disheartening to me to hear how little value is attached
 >to photo and video evidence by an 'expert.' Makes me wonder why
 >I bothered to invest so much in decent equipment so that I can
 >better record the events.

 >Question: Are you saying that people shouldn't even bother to
 >photograph or videotape a sighting because it won't prove or
 >mean anything to anybody? If so, my next stop is e-bay!

No, I'm not saying people shouldn't record. What I am saying is
that people shouldn't assume that, because they havge a picture
or video that the sighting will be accepted as real because of
the picture or video. Having had plenty of experience with the
skeptics I know that they will pick the visual case and its
context apart and then try to argue that the photo is an
accident of photography (photo flaw) or else a hoax. In order to
make this argument stick they often have to separate the two:
visual case and its context are split off from the photo/video/
The photo/video is then analyzed separately.

If it can be shown to have no positive proof that it is real,
then it can't be used to support the visual sighting.

Consider McMinnville combined with the claim that 'any' picture
could be hoaxed, given enough desire, time, effort, and skill.
Take the photos by themselves and... well, it could have been
hoaxed and, since UFOs don't exist, it was hoaxed. This totally
ignores the context of the sighting which includes the Trent's
own...um... shall we say, lack of skills (in almost anything
technical) and experience plus the fact that there is no
evidence they would even think of such a thingg, to say nothing
of having enough motivation to carry it out.

So, in the Trent case, the reality of the sighting is based on
the Trent's them selves and the photo is an aid to their
recollection.

Extrapolate from this case to others, with variations of course.

In the New Zealand sightings we have a unique situation in which
there are images on the film which could _not_ have been made by
any known light sources near the plane. The skeptic could then
argue that the film was hoaxed, but if so, it required the
collusion of the cameraman, the news reporter and the air crew.
Not likely!!!! (IN fact, Klass did argue, at one time, that the
air crew recognized one of the lights as a squid boat but was
too embarrased to admit it to the news crew and so it was
reported as a UFO. Typical crock.... by Funny Phil.)


 >Anybody interested in a heap of video and photographic
 >equipment?

 >>Instead, a photo is 'merely' an aid to the recollection of the
 >>witness.....

 >An "aid to memory?" Or corroboration of the sighting event? The
 >difference in definition is important.

Well, it is corroboration is the sighting less film/video can be
accepted or proven to be real. But the film/video by itself if
(probably) not proof by itself.

 >>The same probably goes for video, but it is harder to
 >>fake.

 >Not a very 'positive' comment about the value of videotape
 >either.

There is always the matter of escalation of difficulty. My
arguments about Ed's pictures (Gulf Breeze) are based in part on
the difficulty of the pictures as opposed to Ed's capability.
etc.

 >>The 1997 Mexico City video is a prime case in point: the
 >>videographer was never discovered and 'fingerprints of a hoax'
 >>were discovered in the video after many hours of analysis by
 >>Jeff Sainio and myself.

 >Because one can be faked, they can all be faked. Yeah, I've
 >heard that one before. But again that's not what I was
 >saying/talking about. Your use of the Mexico video here in the
 >context of this thread is a kind of back door way of minimizing
 >the value of _all_ photographic material. Not very encouraging
 >to someone like myself who has taken the time to record
 >sightings. It also minimizes the value of photographic material
 >as corroboration for a sighting report. Some thing I disagree
 >with.

 >Sure, 'some' photo's are faked/hoaxed intentionally. But they
 >_all_ aren't. Seems to me that you're throwing the baby out with
 >the bath water. And I never said, or meant to imply, that any
 >photo should be considered as proof conclusive of the 'origin'
 >of any craft that may be depicted or that photos can provide
 >clues as to the nature of the manufacturer. You're throwing
 >apples in with my oranges! :)


I'm not saying that because some are known to be hoaxed, all are
hoaxed. What I am saying it that any photo/video/ could be
hoaxed... given enough time, money, desire, capability,
equipment, etc. Whether or not it was hoaxed can only be
determined from the contexstual evidence... such as under the
circumstances of the sighting, could it have been hoaxed? Or, is
the necessary technique _definitely_ beyond the capability, etc.
of the witness(es). What about a multiple witness case? Jan 8,
1990 in Gulf Breeze, multiple witnesses and multiple photos.
Funny, the skeptics have stayed away from this one... I wonder
why?

See: http://brumac.8k.com.

Look for 'Not Just Another Evening Stroll'.







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              Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:26:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:40:42 -0400
Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:27:49 -0300
 >To: UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -

 >>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:41:52 -0600
 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast
 >>To: UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net

<snip>

 >Also, I am curious as to what Berlitz/Cooper refers to. Who is
 >Cooper? Was this supposed to mean Berlitz and Bill Moore's 1980
 >book 'The Roswell Incident'? Bill and I did 90% of the research.
 >Bill Moore and I also did several MUFON Symposia papers about
 >Roswell 1980-1985. Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt's 1991 book was
 >'UFO Crash at Roswell'. I don't think Kevin and I ever co-
 >authored anything...

Formal Correction. Original reply to posting should have read:
_Berlitz/Moore/Friedman/Randle_. Cooper's book, which went for
almost $500 on Ebay yesterday, was on my mind when composing the
posting. I don't equate an email list posting with being a
formal research monograph needing in-depth proof-reading. I
mean't to type _Moore_. Apologies for the typo.

Wendy Connors





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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:35:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:43:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Hebert


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:47:31 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<big snip because this is getting too long>

 >Amy,

 >We are pretty much in agreement about scientific method.

 >However, one factor you seem to be leaving out of the equation
 >is that scientific consensus is possible and does occur, and
 >that some theories, hypotheses, or opinions are much better
 >grounded than others and (in the case of theories) for most
 >practical purposes are tantamount to proof. They become accepted
 >as 'truth' unless and until new evidence casts them into doubt.

I agree, Richard. Scientific consensus is as close as we can get
to what might be called "proof".

 >So I don't quite agree that it is up to each individual to
 >decide what is true. Science is a social, consensus process.

But the fact of the matter is that each individual _does_ decide
what they accept as true and what they reject as false. Whether
they agree with scientific consensus or not, ultimately each
individual makes the decision as to what to believe and what to
disbelieve.

I've observed some individuals who wholeheartely believe what
science tells them and some who totally reject the same. I have
taught my daughters to pay close attention to science and the
scientific method but scientific theories are just that,
theories. We have much to learn and one should never worship the
gods of science as they can be wrong from time to time.

 >Also, lesser informed and less scientifically oriented
 >individuals are less likely to be as close to truth as possible
 >than better informed and more scientific individuals.

True.

I've also found that those who _believe_ they are more informed
than they really are tend to move further away from rather than
closer to the truth. When we believe we have _the_ answers, we
don't. When we begin to think we have seen and heard most
everything, we have so much to learn. And when we lose
objectivity, we are truly lost.

In the face of the Unknown, all are humbled.

Amy







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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Acres

From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 00:17:14 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 13:26:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Acres


 >Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

Hi John et al! :)

I think they have to be considered supporting evidence.
Providing tampering is ruled out, video could certainly assist
in proving what an object COULDN'T be. ie, if something is
estimated by a Scientist to be travelling at say, 7000 metres
per second!!! Well, that surely has to rule out birds, aircraft
etc.

The truth is, even if a saucer landed in Times Square at
lunchtime & some "greys" got out & bought a hot dog, then flew
of at phenomenal speed. The Govt would probably tell us it was a
combined excercise between the testing of a new superfast,
pilotless aircraft from the USAF & a new movie coming out from
Spielberg !!! And the people would say yeah, I KNEW it was
something like that!  And they could sleep securely knowing that
UFO's are still only figments of imagination from paranoid nuts!
Even if you'd videoed their ascent at unbelievable speed, you'd
have absolute proof but it would amount to nothing as the
Military would have no further comment on this new-found
technology!

7000 metres per second was calculated by this UFO observed at
the WTC on 24th July 2001. It's probably old news but I only
recently found it. And only manged to view it tonight.

http://www.cowan70.freeserve.co.uk/alien_ufo/new_york_ufo.html

It's in MOV format so you may need Apple's Quicktime. A Japanese
person has done some analysis on it here:

http://www.ufoseek.org/japanesepage.htm

Someone said it's obviously a fake, but it looks pretty genuine
to my untrained eye! In fact, I'd say it's the best footage I've
ever seen! Maybe someone here can offer their opinion?

Keep doing what you do please John & others!

Someone has to record all this for the filmakers of the future.
The viewing audiences of our childrens children will love to see
archive footage back from the days when UFO's & Aliens were only
a myth!


Regards,

Dave Acres







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              Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:34:05 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:36:21 -0400
Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:26:41 -0600
 >Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast

 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:27:49 -0300
 >>To: UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -

 >>>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:41:52 -0600
 >>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast
 >>>To: UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net

 ><snip>

 >>Also, I am curious as to what Berlitz/Cooper refers to. Who is
 >>Cooper? Was this supposed to mean Berlitz and Bill Moore's 1980
 >>book 'The Roswell Incident'? Bill and I did 90% of the research.
 >>Bill Moore and I also did several MUFON Symposia papers about
 >>Roswell 1980-1985. Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt's 1991 book was
 >>'UFO Crash at Roswell'. I don't think Kevin and I ever co-
 >>authored anything...

 >Formal Correction. Original reply to posting should have read:
 >_Berlitz/Moore/Friedman/Randle_. Cooper's book, which went for
 >almost $500 on Ebay yesterday, was on my mind when composing the
 >posting. I don't equate an email list posting with being a
 >formal research monograph needing in-depth proof-reading. I
 >mean't to type _Moore_. Apologies for the typo.

No problem with typos, just thought I might have missed
something. I take it the Cooper in question was Milton William
Cooper... a very nasty character. Was the book in question
'Behold a Pale Horse'?? The first edition is loaded with
lies...' for $500? Strange world indeed.

I am still curious about Keel and what his source in 1952 might
have been about Roswell crash and bodies...


Stan Friedman







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #364

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:19:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:37:45 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #364


Alfred's Odd Ode #364 (Friday, May 17, 2002)

Yeah - hey! ...and thanks for sailing in! I'm feeling kind of
low right now, so it's good to know a friend. Dismissed a
"CyberWacko" by some persons I've admired, I'm stunned with
disappointments I suspect are not required. Citations by the
carload? Summarily ignored. Paper's I have written are dismissed,
subsumed - deplored? Not making any headway, I sense my spinning
wheels; traction just ain't happening, and I sense a changing
deal...

Nobody in particular, I can think and I can wait. I keep my own
good council, and I proudly face my fate. I've found I trust my
conscience to define what I should hear, and I firmly heed my
instincts on the subjects we all fear. So, I'm not (much)
distracted by the flapping of some tongues, or the tapping of
some keys by some dismissive 'upper' rung. They're all just
proclamation of a sort that must resort to the insult always
issued by the sport _without_ retort.

Some say there's no conspiracy of a type I have described. That
*life* is no illusion and reality's denied! These _become_ the
haze we see-- lies hidden in the fog. Our Institutes are
porcine, filled with wolves and rats and hogs! So say the men
Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and Howard Bloom - Ridgeway, Marrs,
Parenti, and with Webb (?) we're out of room. Some sneer at
these citations and deplore what they express, but rebuttal's
not forthcoming and you sense that they're distressed.

Now, I am incoherent when I write these endless odes? Then where
is that coherence you imply you have in loads? Where is the
alacrity your insults have not found, where would come your
outrage that is specious and unsound? Where would come your
petulance, your pique, and your displeasure? What have _you_
provided to discussions we can measure?

And please don't tell me: "...many years of hard investigation."
That just won't wash, you've had your chance, and agitate
frustration. You print your books and make the lists but what
have you to show? We're light-years from disclosure as you've
hoed the wrong damned row! Fifty years have come and gone, the
saucers still a giggle. Conspiracy has been dismissed, so you've
no room to wiggle.

Now I'm the one to stand accused because I'm asking questions -
because I make suggestions more proactive than oppressive. You
say I'm warm and fuzzy in conspiracy's cocoon, that I'm the lazy
thinker (that I'm crazy as a loon?). You say I lack coherence
and I'm (only) having fun. but when the reading's over? There're
no bullets in your gun!

All of your coherence is comprised of narrow views. All of your
pronouncements are just that, mere air you've used. I doubt you
have the _competence_ to label me insane, or make profuse
assessments on how others use their brains. You lack
imagination, you're laggard and you're slow, you've moved not one
step closer... you'll reap what you would sew.

Pandering up to science is a futile path to take, they have no
use for what you've got; you complicate their stake! You
entangle all their issues! You confuse the status quo. You
confound them to distraction; you perplex them, don't you know?
If you are right, they live in fear - they lose the cat-bird
seat. Everyone's *investments*? Up in smoke! _That's_ hard to
beat!

If you are *right* they're nullified! Their *culture* loses air!
Everyone must re-think work that paid them "fair and square".
Everyone must take new stock! New kingdoms are at hand! A
different rule of law's proscribed by those that make your stand!
Correct, you signal something that's beyond what we've been told!
Correct you are their death knell. Correct, their bell must
toll.

I'll not be taken seriously, you officiously intone, until I earn
the kiss of your ignoble status quo, but I would sooner kiss the
ass of all that I detest than go along with what you say or do as
you suggest. You ply a blithe denial that is cloistered and
concealed. You're airily dismissive on what's regularly
revealed. You're arrogant, sententious, and tres smug beyond
belief... like you've _produce_ the saucers, sir, and that will
bring you grief.

And though I would respect you for your contributions made,
you'll understand, then, why I'd act... to move beyond your
shade. There's more to "it" than you'd let on, for all your
acrimony on the general conspiracy you've dismissed as trite and
phony. For all your admonitions on "complexities of things",
you're too reserved for most of us wanting truth that "action"
brings. There _is_ a vast conspiracy, sir, of a kind that you
might find... now pursuing an agenda tres complex and
intertwined.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

<!>

~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







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                Re: NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:01:05 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:39:54 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:42:59 +0200
 >Subject: NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying Objects

<snip>

 >http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/facts/HTML/FS-015-HQ.html

<snip>

 >No branch of the United States Government is currently involved
 >with or responsible for investigations into the possibility of
 >advanced alien civilizations on other planets or for
 >investigating Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO's).

<snip>

Hi everyone!

Strange to read such a sweeping statement considering one would
not even expect one U.S. Government agency to know all about the
activities of other agencies. Stranger still that the agency
that wrote this, NASA, is actually currently involved in just
such investigations through its well funded Astrobiology
Institute which includes research by many non-NASA scientists
working for non-government agencies.

It has been my experience that it is almost impossible to get
additional information or detailed reports about even the SETI
research NASA directly funded in the past, because NASA and
other government agencies prefer to contract out such research,
the results of which would be exempt from U.S. Freedom of
Information or Canadian Access to Information requests. It is
frustrating to be told that certain documents I know to exist
regarding my own searches (eg. proof of the E.T. origin of UFOs
for example) are classified and will continue to be classified
because other countries or private institutions were involved or
because research in this area is still ongoing after all these
years.

There is something really wrong when the public servants which
we elect and whose salaries we pay prevent us from seeing
documents that are so important to us - their bosses. What is
also weird is that we are expected to pay millions of dollars
more each year for the careful storage of these important
historic documents which according to the current regulations we
will never see!

Oh well... what do you think about those amazing Leafs, eh? The
last time we won the Stanley Cup was in 1967 during Canada's
100th anniversary when we had visitors from all over the galaxy.
One careless group of E.T. tourists crashed their flying saucer
just off the coast of Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia where Canadians
quickly gathered to help them safely on their way home...


Nick Balaskas







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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:27:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:02:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez


 >From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 00:17:14 +1000
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

Hi Dave,

You wrote:

 >Hi John et al! :)

 >I think they have to be considered supporting evidence.
 >Providing tampering is ruled out, video could certainly assist
 >in proving what an object COULDN'T be. ie, if something is
 >estimated by a Scientist to be travelling at say, 7000 metres
 >per second!!! Well, that surely has to rule out birds, aircraft
 >etc.

Aircraft and balloons yes, birds no. According to 'some,'
_Pelicans_ are capable of some pretty astounding aerobatic
feats!  :)

 >The truth is, even if a saucer landed in Times Square at
 >lunchtime & some "greys" got out & bought a hot dog, then flew
 >of at phenomenal speed. The Govt would probably tell us it was a
 >combined excercise between the testing of a new superfast,
 >pilotless aircraft from the USAF & a new movie coming out from
 >Spielberg !!! And the people would say yeah, I KNEW it was
 >something like that!  And they could sleep securely knowing that
 >UFO's are still only figments of imagination from paranoid nuts!
 >Even if you'd videoed their ascent at unbelievable speed, you'd
 >have absolute proof but it would amount to nothing as the
 >Military would have no further comment on this new-found
 >technology!

Maybe, but then again, maybe not. Aliens landing in Times Square
would be in danger of ending up in leather underwear as
somebody's 'Side-show du jour.' Where the public would pay big
bucks just to have a look at em and maybe 'cop a little feel'.':)

Remember what they did to poor old King Kong? That's nursery
school compared to what they'd do with real aliens. :)

 >7000 metres per second was calculated by this UFO observed at
 >the WTC on 24th July 2001. It's probably old news but I only
 >recently found it. And only manged to view it tonight.

 >http://www.cowan70.freeserve.co.uk/alien_ufo/new_york_ufo.html

 >It's in MOV format so you may need Apple's Quicktime. A Japanese
 >person has done some analysis on it here:

 >http://www.ufoseek.org/japanesepage.htm

 >Someone said it's obviously a fake, but it looks pretty genuine
 >to my untrained eye! In fact, I'd say it's the best footage I've
 >ever seen! Maybe someone here can offer their opinion?

Nice catch Dave! You saved yourself by using the qualifier
"untrained" when talking about your take on this piece of video.
Yes, it was found to have been faked. The UFO overlaps the edge
of the building it is supposed to be behind! Not certain if it
was Bruce Maccabee or Jeff Saino that busted that one. If I had
to guess, I 'think' it was Jeff.

 >Keep doing what you do please John & others!

As long as it keeps happening, I'll keep recording them whenever
I am able.

 >Someone has to record all this for the filmakers of the future.
 >The viewing audiences of our childrens children will love to see
 >archive footage back from the days when UFO's & Aliens were only
 >a myth!

Be nice to have it all checked out and resolved _before_ I die.:)

Nice to meet you Dave.


Regards,

John Velez







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              Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 13:52:17 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:05:58 -0400
Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast -


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:34:05 -0300
 >Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast

 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:26:41 -0600
 >>Subject: Re: John Keel's 'Things From The Sky' Broadcast

<snip>

 >No problem with typos, just thought I might have missed
 >something. I take it the Cooper in question was Milton William
 >Cooper... a very nasty character. Was the book in question
 >'Behold a Pale Horse'?? The first edition is loaded with
 >lies...' for $500? Strange world indeed.

 >I am still curious about Keel and what his source in 1952 might
 >have been about >Roswell crash and bodies...

The very same Cooper and book. Guess P. T. Barnum still stands
correct in his assessment of a sucker born every minute. As to
Keel's sources, all I can relate is what he states in the
program itself, which is that all facts are correct and
documented by the Air Force.


Wendy Connors







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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:56:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:08:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Velez


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 19:07:08 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:13:20 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 00:03:13 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 ><snip>

 >>>Amy has the jist of it. It took me many years to realize it, but
 >>>the bottom line is this: a photo a UFO does not make.

 >>That's true. But that isn't what I was talking about or trying
 >>to imply. If a photo or a videotape of of a sighting cannot be
 >>considered as corroborative evidence for a sighting report, it
 >>begs the question; "Why bother recording the event at all?" I
 >>was laboring under the delusion that if I managed to 'record'
 >>the events on film or tape that I was doing a 'good thing' (the
 >>'right' thing) in order to provide 'corroboration' for the
 >>report. The camera is a second witness in my eyes. It should be
 >>considered as such. According to what I'm hearing, myself and
 >>others are simply wasting our time recording these events and
 >>wasting our money on expensive photographic equipment.

 >>Please allow me to clarify something.

 >>I don't record the events to prove to anyone that "UFOs" are
 >>space ships' being built and piloted by 'aliens' from another
 >>world. That is something that Amy and yourself have
 >>'interjected' into the discussion. The reason that _I_ record
 >>the sightings to is to provide _corroboration_
 >>(photographic/visually) for the sighting. (What I saw.) If after
 >>a careful analysis it can be determined that the objects
 >>depicted in any given photo or videotape are genuine "unknowns"
 >>(as in; not pictures of airplanes, birds, or weather balloons,
 >>etc.) then they should be considered for further investigation
 >>and acknowledged as corroboration for the sighting report.

<snip>

Hi Bruce,

First, thank you. I appreciate your taking the time to address
some of my questions. These are important issues that rarely
get the attention they deserve.

I asked:

 >>Question: Are you saying that people shouldn't even bother to
 >>photograph or videotape a sighting because it won't prove or
 >>mean anything to anybody? If so, my next stop is e-bay!

You responded:

 >No, I'm not saying people shouldn't record. What I am saying is
 >that people shouldn't assume that, because they have a picture
 >or video that the sighting will be accepted as real because of
 >the picture or video.

I can't speak for anybody else but I never make any such
'assumptions.'

When I 'shoot' a sighting it is only to photographically record,
corroborate, and document the event. With pictures or a video I
can at least offer to substantiate my report and show that
'something' was in the sky; and (hopefully) whether or not it
was anything out of the ordinary. If the photos are good enough,
clear and detailed enough, so that a determination can be made
as to whether the recorded object is 'out of the ordinary' (or
not,) I cannot understand why the photo does not become
acceptable corroboration for the sighting report. There seems to
be a big problem with that.

It would be so in a criminal case. The _only_ difference here
is, we're talking about *UFOs. (*The grand-daddy of all 'hot-
button' topics.) There is no other reason why UFO photos should
be treated any differently than photos presented in evidence, or
as corroboration in a legal or criminal court proceeding. When
photos are submitted in a court of law they are submitted as
'evidence.' What is it that makes UFO photos that accompany
sighting reports different? Other than maybe prejudice or bias.

When Tom King responding to my post he called it evidence of a,
"double standard." He's right. It's true. UFO photos or footage
is segregated from the rest of the genre and approached with an
entirely different attitude and set of standards than any other
photo artifacts. Maybe rightfully so. But they are _never_
accepted as corroboration or evidence even after passing the
most rigorous tests that people can invent. Not so for photos
that are admitted as evidence in legal cases.

The bottom line is; that unless one of us can manage to break
off a piece of one of these things, or capture an alien,
nothing, not even the aforementioned, is ever going to be
'enough.'

A case in point is your next comment:

 >Having had plenty of experience with the
 >skeptics I know that they will pick the visual case and its
 >context apart and then try to argue that the photo is an
 >accident of photography (photo flaw) or else a hoax. In order to
 >make this argument stick they often have to separate the two:
 >visual case and its context are split off from the photo/video/
 >The photo/video is then analyzed separately.

That doesn't make any sense Bruce. If you can see what's wrong
with that approach then others can too. Why are they 'permitted'
to get away with making that kind of a surgical/artificial
separation of the 'visual case' from its 'context?' (as you put
it) It isn't done at any other time. (ie; news photos/footage,
photographic material that is admitted as 'evidence' in legal
proceedings etc.)

If they are isolating the components solely for the purpose of
artificially strengthening and justifying 'their own theories,'
then that is a practice which should be exposed and loudly
protested. In legal/criminal cases, and even the news media,
photographic evidence is always considered within 'context.'
Otherwise they have no bearing on the case. It is this
'negative' loophole that is being used by 'skeptics.' And they
are being allowed to get away with it by the larger community.

All because they have pulled a 'Houdini' and distracted the
viewers attention while they are busy renaming an expression of
'bias' to pass as acceptable scientific theory and methodology.

Apparently _nobody_ is calling them on it. You make it sound as
if it is an accepted/acceptable practice. (To separate the photo
material from the context in which it was recorded.)  To me it
all sounds very counterproductive, not 'scientific' and just
plain wrong. Very wrong.

It only serves as a means for sceptics to 'castrate in the
cradle' any UFO cases/reports that are accompanied by
photographic material. Since when is that kind of thing
'acceptable?' Why is everybody apparently just 'laying down' and
taking it? Because we don't have a piece of a UFO? Nonsense.

 >If it can be shown to have no positive proof that it is real,
 >then it can't be used to support the visual sighting.

There's that double standard rearing its ugly head again. There
are many instances of 'transient phenomena' (which UFOs are
loosely a part of) that have been captured on film/tape that are
readily accepted as "positive proof" for the phenomena. All the
'new' types of lightning that have been so recently discovered
are a good example. New discoveries about lightning for keerists
sake. Lightning has been around for quite some time, yet because
of technological advances, we have of late been able to identify
and accept these recently discovered forms of it. They are
accepted without having to be subjected to the extreme
incredulity and prejudice that UFO photos are consistently met
with. Mind you, I'm not arguing against high standards or
stringent and careful analysis, I'm just saying that whatever
standards are applied, they should be applied equally and
without any bias or prejudice.

Actually the recent discoveries about 'new' types of lightning
is a good argument to use with those who ask where reports and
talk of UFOs was before 1947. We've only just discovered
lightning!  :)

 >Consider McMinnville combined with the claim that 'any' picture
 >could be hoaxed, given enough desire, time, effort, and skill.
 >Take the photos by themselves and... well, it could have been
 >hoaxed and, since UFOs don't exist, it was hoaxed. This totally
 >ignores the context of the sighting which includes the Trent's
 >own...um... shall we say, lack of skills (in almost anything
 >technical) and experience plus the fact that there is no
 >evidence they would even think of such a thing, to say nothing
 >of having enough motivation to carry it out.

 >So, in the Trent case, the reality of the sighting is based on
 >the Trent's them selves and the photo is an aid to their
 >recollection.

 >Extrapolate from this case to others, with variations of course.

Another case where a genuinely newsworthy event remains
gathering dust on the shelf because no one has posted a
successful challenge to an approach and methodology that is
biased in favor of the 'sceptics.' As opposed to the 'evidence.'
A truly scientific approach and methodology would not be
weighted in any direction. Whether for or against. Once
neutrality or objectivity is compromised it colors any
subsequent findings/results.

The rest of us can't find any truth because it is being held
hostage by 'unscientific' scientists. Unbelievable. It's sad,
the more I learn the less hopeful I become for a 'fair' hearing
and for an honest (reliable) outcome of all the research being
done or proposed.

To put a reverse spin on the ball; sounds to me like the inmates
are running the asylum in the scientific community. And we just
sit back and let it happen without a peep of protest.

 >In the New Zealand sightings we have a unique situation in which
 >there are images on the film which could _not_ have been made by
 >any known light sources near the plane. The skeptic could then
 >argue that the film was hoaxed, but if so, it required the
 >collusion of the cameraman, the news reporter and the air crew.
 >Not likely!!!! (IN fact, Klass did argue, at one time, that the
 >air crew recognized one of the lights as a squid boat but was
 >too embarrased to admit it to the news crew and so it was
 >reported as a UFO. Typical crock.... by Funny Phil.)

I've never found that man "funny."

 >>An "aid to memory?" Or corroboration of the sighting event? The
 >>difference in definition is important.
 >
 >Well, it is corroboration is the sighting less film/video can be
 >accepted or proven to be real. But the film/video by itself if
 >(probably) not proof by itself.

"If taken by itself" yes, but that's not what I'm talking about.

 >>Sure, 'some' photo's are faked/hoaxed intentionally. But they
 >>_all_ aren't. Seems to me that you're throwing the baby out with
 >>the bath water. And I never said, or meant to imply, that any
 >>photo should be considered as proof conclusive of the 'origin'
 >>of any craft that may be depicted or that photos can provide
 >>clues as to the nature of the manufacturer. You're throwing
 >>apples in with my oranges! :)

 >I'm not saying that because some are known to be hoaxed, all are
 >hoaxed. What I am saying it that any photo/video/ could be
 >hoaxed... given enough time, money, desire, capability,
 >equipment, etc. Whether or not it was hoaxed can only be
 >determined from the contexstual evidence... such as under the
 >circumstances of the sighting, could it have been hoaxed? Or, is
 >the necessary technique _definitely_ beyond the capability, etc.
 >of the witness(es). What about a multiple witness case? Jan 8,
 >1990 in Gulf Breeze, multiple witnesses and multiple photos.
 >Funny, the skeptics have stayed away from this one... I wonder
 >why?

 >See: http://brumac.8k.com.

Yeah, I wonder why too!  :)

Regards,

John Velez








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   May > May 17

                        An Abduction Monitoring Idea

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:20:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:13:39 -0400
Subject: An Abduction Monitoring Idea


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:55:51 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?
 >>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:09:17 +0000


John Velez wrote, on the topic of the validity of photographs:

 >It is _thousands_ Tommy. I didn't count my 8 inch Celestron and
 >a whole bunch of other stuff because I bought it for astronomy
 >originally. I went out and bought a Cannon 35mm SLR with a
 >telephoto lens, a dedicated 500mm telephoto, and a Sony digital
 >videocam specifically for recording UFOs. If you add in the rest
 >of it, the telescope, tripods, lenses, adapters etc., etc., etc,
 >it easily adds up to 'thousands' of dollars spent. And all for
 >something that gets blown off and ignored on the other end!

John also wondered about how to get an abduction videotaped when
UFO presence usually shuts down all electronics in the vicinity.

Just wondering if that 8-inch Celestron, coupled to a long-
playing camcorder/tape combination, and parked a goodly
distance from the abductee's home, might provide some
interesting footage. Especially if the abductee intentionally
leaves the shade up at all times except those short periods
where modesty is important, (and those tend to be while the
abductee is awake.)


Eleanor White







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                Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:26:03 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young


 >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
 >Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

<snip>

 >[Phil] Plait's book Bad Astronomy is just out. He has a link to
 >publishing info about it from his website: www.badastronomy.com

<snip>

 >But then he gives his most damning evidence. The people who
 >spend most of their time watching the sky (a lot more than the
 >average person) are amateur astronomers. And, since no amateur
 >astronomer has told Plait about their UFO sightings, no amateur
 >astronomers have ever seen UFOs, and therefore only people
 >unfamiliar with the sky see UFOs. And since witnesses are
 >unfamiliar with the sky, their UFO sightings are all explainable.

 >Nice argument, except that it's completely wrong. Even in the
 >small sample of UFOs reported in Canada last year, there were
 >two separate reports by amateur astronomers.

Hi Chris, Listerions:

According to your sample of 374 Canadian UFO reports last year
two were from people who described themselves as amateur
astronomers. Let's see, that's.0054%.

How many amateurs are there in Canada? The largest group, the
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada, claims on its current
website to have 4,500 members "worldwide"; in its authoritative
Observer's Handbook 2001 it reported 4,200. Even if we assume
that 3/4 of its members last year were in Canada, the number of
UFO reports from amateur astronomers in the country is
minuscule, and even less when we consider those amateurs who are
not members of the RASC's 18 Centres.

 >Furthermore, Plait as obviously never read the Gert Herb Report,

Has anybody? That has always been a puzzle to me. The survey
done of the American Astronomical Society, the professionals,
has been trumpeted around for twenty-five years, but Herb's
CUFOS amateur survey has curiously dropped off the radar screen
of UFOlogy. I have always wondered why?

Could it be because it didn't support the contention of the believers
that the more one looks at the sky the more UFOs one notices?

I was a member of the Astronomical League Council which approved
participation in the survey after Greta Herb made his pitch at
the 1976 Kutztown, Pa. national meeting. Two years later I was
League president when an article about the results of the survey
was published in our newsletter (The Reflector, August 1969, p.
1-2). The article was prepared by our editor from "the writings
of Greta Herb."

The League is a federation of amateur clubs with a few
individual members. The experience level of the club members
ranges from what I would call very experienced observers, some
of whom have been active for decades, to beginners, including
some children. The other two groups in the survey, the
Association of Lunar & Planetary Observers and the International
Occultation Timing Association, included mostly very experienced
observers, with a scattering of an occasional professional. I
think it is safe to assume, though, that these people, whatever
their experience level, probably have a better knowledge of the
sky and more experience looking at the sky (mostly, but not
exclusively at night) than the average person.

After the article was published I wrote a couple letters to Mr.
Herb, in care of CUFOS, asking if it were possible to break down
the numbers for experienced and less experienced observers. Even
though at least one of my letters was picked up at the CUFOS
office, I never received a response.

 >published a few decades ago, which gave the results of a survey
 >of amateur astronomers, noting that a significant percentage of
 >them do, in fact, see and report UFOs.

22% of the amateur astronomers polled responded "yes" to the
question, "Have you ever observed an object which resisted your
most exhaustive efforts at identification?"

A smaller group, 8%, responded positively to a subdivision of
"high strangeness" including, "the observation of point sources
or extended objects in abrupt discontinuous motion, or objects
observed from sufficiently close distances to leave no doubt in
the mind of the individual about their unconventional nature,"
according to the summary article.

However, 3 out of 4 of the amateur astronomers polled apparently
didn't even think the survey was important enough to respond.
While a follow up was done for the two smaller groups of more
experienced observers, resulting in 290 returns by 57% of those
originally polled, for some reason no follow-up was done for the
thousands of League members. It is obvious that in a survey like
this people who were "sighters" were more likely to be motivated
to participate in the initial response.

When one considers the actual number of responses from those
polled, only 5% of the amateurs polled reported seeing something
they couldn't identify and only 1.8% reported "high strangeness"
sightings.

 >Amateurs not good enough for you? Peter Sturrock polled
 >professional astronomers and found many of them have seen
 >UFOs, too.

 >[Note to Errol and anyone else: Are either of these available
 >online?] [Nope. Only a mention of your article at P-47--ebk]

When we consider the total memberships polled, and compare the
responses to the total membership participation of the AAS poll,
as was done by Philip J. Klass in his book UFOs: the Public
Deceived (Prometheus Books, 1983), and compare both sets to the
1978 Gallup Poll, we note the following:

Reporting that they have seen a UFO:

American professional astronomers   -      2%

1973 Gallup Poll of adult Americans -     11%

American amateur astronomers        -      5%
   "high strangeness" sightings      -      2%

1978 Gallup Poll of adult Americans -      9%

The conclusion is clear: the more familiar one is with the sky,
the more unlikely one is to report a UFO.

 >There are a few other problems with Plait's reasoning. One is
 >that amateur astronomers aren't interested in moving lights in
 >the sky any more than they are in identifiable aircraft. The
 >ones I hang out with want to do some specific imaging of nebulas
 >and galaxies, and spend a lot of time looking through eyepieces
 >with tiny fields of view. Of course, many have now switched to
 >computer-guided scopes and spend their time in warm-up rooms,
 >often miles away from the telescope itself.

How many amateur astronomers can Chris name who have such
remotely operated equipment? A dozen that he's read about,
somewhere? I belong to an active amateur club with about 110
members which operates a public observatory, and not one person
has such equipment.

I am even more puzzled because Chris is, I believe, a past
president of a local astronomy club in Winnipeg. How many
members of your group up there only observe electronically from
control rooms miles away from the 'scopes?

In any case, it is doubtful whether any amateurs were using such
facilities in 1977, when the Herb survey was done.

 >Professional astronomers are even worse in terms of observation.
 >Few actually DO any optical observations. Many haven't looked
 >through a telescope or spent any time looking at constellations
 >since their undergraduate days.

But most professionals I've talked to were amateurs before they
entered the field, some with lifelong interests in astronomy,
often times starting in childhood. This claim that the people
most knowledgeable and experienced about the sky, professional
and amateur astronomers, somehow have never managed to noticed
the alien starships buzzing about the saucer skywatch crowds is,
to say the least, amusing.

The polling data is clear: the more familiar one is with the
sky, the less likely one is to report seeing a UFO.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                     Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #364 - Scovel

From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:35:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:32:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #364 - Scovel


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #364
 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:19:33 -0500

 >Alfred's Odd Ode #364 (Friday, May 17, 2002)

 >Yeah - hey! ...and thanks for sailing in! I'm feeling kind of
 >low right now, so it's good to know a friend. Dismissed a
 >"CyberWacko" by some persons I've admired, I'm stunned with
 >disappointments I suspect are not required. Citations by the
 >carload? Summarily ignored. Paper's I have written are dismissed,
 >subsumed - deplored? Not making any headway, I sense my spinning
 >wheels; traction just ain't happening, and I sense a changing
 >deal...

Some of us support you in silence because you are more articulate
and are a much better outlet for the things that need to be spoken.
It is not fear of the synapticaly subdued leveling both barrels of
their double digit I.Q's at us, it is to allow the best defense to
stand out.

 >Now I'm the one to stand accused because I'm asking questions -
 >because I make suggestions more proactive than oppressive. You
 >say I'm warm and fuzzy in conspiracy's cocoon, that I'm the lazy
 >thinker (that I'm crazy as a loon?). You say I lack coherence
 >and I'm (only) having fun. but when the reading's over? There're
 >no bullets in your gun!

 >All of your coherence is comprised of narrow views. All of your
 >pronouncements are just that, mere air you've used. I doubt you
 >have the _competence_ to label me insane, or make profuse
 >assessments on how others use their brains. You lack
 >imagination, you're laggard and you're slow, you've moved not one
 >step closer... you'll reap what you would sew.

 >I'll not be taken seriously, you officiously intone, until I earn
 >the kiss of your ignoble status quo, but I would sooner kiss the
 >ass of all that I detest than go along with what you say or do as
 >you suggest. You ply a blithe denial that is cloistered and
 >concealed. You're airily dismissive on what's regularly
 >revealed. You're arrogant, sententious, and tres smug beyond
 >belief... like you've _produce_ the saucers, sir, and that will
 >bring you grief.

 >And though I would respect you for your contributions made,
 >you'll understand, then, why I'd act... to move beyond your
 >shade. There's more to "it" than you'd let on, for all your
 >acrimony on the general conspiracy you've dismissed as trite and
 >phony. For all your admonitions on "complexities of things",
 >you're too reserved for most of us wanting truth that "action"
 >brings. There _is_ a vast conspiracy, sir, of a kind that you
 >might find... now pursuing an agenda tres complex and
 >intertwined.

I cannot speak of whether or not information is being witheld of
UFOs but I can testify to making aircraft parts at Jet-Aire and
Jaycraft aircraft factories that would fit no known aircraft and
were machined to a tolerance of .000001". We also manufactured
12 frames that if connected together at their large end would
form a saucer 11' high and 36' in diameter.

Perhaps we are now building the saucers from an alien design.


Jerry Scovel







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   May > May 18

                 Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 17:42:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 04:27:45 -0400
Subject: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz


Hello, all

I don't know whether or not that folks in south Florida aren't
used to looking at the skies much. This sort of thing happens
year 'round when you live in Oregon. Interesting take on how
people react to unusual things in the sky, however. Enjoy.


The Miami Herald
05-17-2002

Harmless halo around the sun causes a buzz in South Florida

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/local/3284810.htm


GT McCoy






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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:48:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 04:30:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Bowden


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:06:34 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 00:32:48 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

Hi John,

 >If somebody smacked me over the melon with a brick, and some one
 >else took 'close-up' pictures of the event, the photos would
 >weigh in heavily against the perpetrator at his trial. However,
 >as Tom King so aptly put it; If that same guy points the same
 >camera at the sky and captures an image(s) of a silver metallic
 >disc performing aerobatic tricks, and he/she reports same, for
 >some unfathomable reason the pictures won't mean -squat-.

 >That's what I'm trying to understand and the source of my own
 >frustration as a witness. One that records the sightings of
 >these 'objects.' Why are the pictures suddenly no good as
 >corroboration? What is the difference?

Fakery, fraud, hoax that's what stands in the way. There are so
many fake pics and video's out there they overshadow the real
ones. Intented or not the news services does nobody any favours
by making a big deal out of the hoax's.

 >>Over the years I have asked various UFO researchers:

 >>Why is it there is a ton of photographic/video/film and even
 >>radar evidence of unexplained objects in the skies but none of
 >>the aliens themselves?

 >>In this day and age of CCTV, motion detector alarm systems (you
 >>can get from your local Tandy's) right down to your own cat and
 >>dog, nothings detected.

 >>The answer I get is:

 >>"The aliens obviously have a superior technology that allows
 >>them to move undetected and unseen"

 >Although that is a convenient answer for a 'proponent' there
 >_is_ 'some' truth to it if you consider the many reports that
 >involve household or automotive electricity being interrupted.
 >All the devices you mentioned are electrical in nature.

 >Car motors, electrical system failures, even the neutralization
 >of nuclear weapons systems has been a part of UFO contact
 >reports almost since day one. So to for the abduction reports.
 >Just one of the 'ubiquitous' details that often accompanies
 >abduction reports has to do with electrical failures during the
 >event. Either in the home or in the car etc.

 >The people who offer up the convenient 'excuse' (reason) why
 >aliens go undetected is just that, convenient. Not a one of them
 >knows for certain that such a thing is true. No one can state
 >such a thing as 'fact' with any real authority. Although, as I
 >mentioned, there are 'indicators' in the reports that the
 >perpetrators of the abductions are 'somehow' managing to
 >neutralize electrical devices/systems. That _would_ explain
 >why camcorders, household alarm systems and the like aren't
 >very effective.

This is the reason I mentioned cat and dog, they are a natural
form of early warning system. It's a documented fact that cats
know in advance when an earthquake is coming and dogs know
within half an hour when their owners are due home, even when
the owners work odd hours. They obviously have a sense we don't,
for us to understand that is like trying to explain the colour
red to a person born blind.

 >We digress. This isn't about how to catch an alien, it has to do
 >with how much weight recorded images that accompany UFO sighting
 >reports may have. (Should have)

Agreed, getting right off the subject here. I hope you
understand my train of thought, it goes along the line not of
speculation but deduction. UFO's can be filmed but aliens can't
therefore UFO's and aliens are a seperate phenom.

 >>I know the UFO is a real thing, I've seen two in my time.

 >If people weren't already convinced that my elevator doesn't quite
 >make it to the top floor... I'd tell you how many times I have seen
 >them. :)

The big difference here is I don't go looking for them, but I'd
have to be blind not to have witnessed the two sightings I had.

So explain to me again the colour red ;-)


All the very best,


Dave Bowden


If you want to know more go to:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition/







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                Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:04:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 04:33:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
 >>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

<snip>

 >I was a member of the Astronomical League Council which approved
 >participation in the survey after Greta Herb made his pitch at
 >he 1976 Kutztown, Pa. national meeting. Two years later I was
 >League president when an article about the results of the survey
 >was published in our newsletter (The Reflector, August 1969, p.
 >1-2). The article was prepared by our editor from "the writings
 >of Greta Herb."

Oops. That was "Gert Herb" and the article was in the August
1979 Reflector.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                          Secrecy News -- 05/17/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 13:39:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 04:36:30 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/17/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 44
May 17, 2002


**      A SPOTLIGHT ON INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT
**      FOR THEIR EYES ONLY


A SPOTLIGHT ON INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT

"Is the CIA's refusal to cooperate with Congressional inquiries
a threat to effective oversight of the operations of the federal
government?"

That provocatively phrased question was the topic of a
exceptionally interesting hearing last July before the House
Government Reform Committee, the transcript of which was
published this week. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2001_hr/071801_oversight.html

The hearing stemmed from a jurisdictional dispute between
congressional committees over who had authority to oversee
certain aspects of intelligence activities. But it ended up
casting a rare spotlight on the conduct of intelligence
oversight generally.

The diverse failings of U.S. intelligence are also, by
implication, failings of congressional oversight. It is
Congress, after all, that funds intelligence and approves or
modifies its organization and operations. If intelligence was
inadequate to deal with September 11, then Congress also has
something to answer for.

Given the defects on all sides, an independent investigation
might ask, as Wesley Pruden put it in the Washington Times
today, "Whose snoring woke who up?"

But while the need for intelligence reform is vaguely
acknowledged, the need to improve intelligence oversight has not
yet been seriously confronted.


FOR THEIR EYES ONLY

A dramatic new report that nuclear war nearly erupted between
Pakistan and India in 1999 is renewing questions about how
former government officials make use of information that they
gathered when in office.

"American Diplomacy and the 1999 Kargil Summit at Blair House,"
by former National Security Council official Bruce O. Riedel,
provides a fascinating account of a July 4, 1999, meeting
between President Clinton and Pakistani Prime Minister Sharif
that is rich with intelligence data and diplomatic intrigue.

In fact, the study is so rich that it almost certainly contains
information that is nominally classified and formally
inaccessible to private analysts and others.

One distinguished student of national security affairs expressed
astonishment and frustration at the publication of Mr. Riedel's
first person account, and suggested that he had broken the
rules.

"I say, 'Book him, Danno. Leaking 1'," the scholar said. "I
mean, what's the point of all this classification, if people can
publish secrets they learned on the job after they leave the
job? (Why couldn't he do the respectable thing and leak it
anonymously to a reporter?)"

The point, of course, is not to punish people such as Mr.
Riedel, whose study is a valuable addition to the literature.
Rather, it is to underscore the need to develop and enforce
rational information policies that approximate fairness and
permit independent review. As things currently stand, the CIA
and other agencies oppose public disclosure of completely
innocuous information from fifty years ago, nevermind
potentially sensitive information from three years ago.
Correcting this state of affairs is more difficult than it ought
to be.

Mr. Riedel did not respond to an email inquiry as to whether he
had sought or received any form of prepublication review. A
spokesperson for the University of Pennsylvania Center for the
Advanced Study of India, which published the paper, said he had
gotten approval from the people that he quoted to cite their
remarks. In any case, it should be noted that, unlike certain
notorious former officials, Mr. Riedel did not seek financial
benefit from his privileged access to government information.

Mr. Riedel's study, published this week, is posted here:

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/casi/reports/RiedelPaper051302.htm

See also "Report: India, Pakistan Were Near Nuclear War in '99"
by Alan Sipress and Thomas E. Ricks in the May 15 Washington
Post here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17398-
2002May14.html

The problem of government officials appropriating government
information for their own use was discussed at length in a 1992
report entitled "For Their Eyes Only: How Presidential
Appointees Treat Public Documents as Personal Property" by
investigative journalist Steve Weinberg. That study, which is
dated but still interesting, is available for purchase from the
Center for Public Integrity here:

http://store.publicintegrity.org/store/Detail.asp?Product_ID=0123


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to majordomo@lists.fas.org with
this command in the body of the message:
  subscribe secrecy_news

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
  http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691







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              Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Rukowski

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:11:11 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 04:40:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Rukowski


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
 >>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?


 >>But then he gives his most damning evidence. The people who
 >>spend most of their time watching the sky (a lot more than the
 >>average person) are amateur astronomers. And, since no amateur
 >>astronomer has told Plait about their UFO sightings, no amateur
 >>Nice argument, except that it's completely wrong. Even in the
 >>small sample of UFOs reported in Canada last year, there were
 >>two separate reports by amateur astronomers.

 >Hi Chris, Listerions:

 >According to your sample of 374 Canadian UFO reports last year
 >two were from people who described themselves as amateur
 >astronomers. Let's see, that's.0054%.
 >How many amateurs are there in Canada? The largest group, the
 >Royal Astronomical Society of Canada, claims on its current
 >website to have 4,500 members "worldwide"; in its authoritative
 >Observer's Handbook 2001 it reported 4,200. Even if we assume
 >that 3/4 of its members last year were in Canada, the number of
 >UFO reports from amateur astronomers in the country is
 >minuscule, and even less when we consider those amateurs who are
 >not members of the RASC's 18 Centres.

So your argument is, therefore, that because the number of
reports from amateur astronomers is so small, my point that some
amateur astronomers see UFOs is irrelevant? Remember, my point
was to counter Phil's comment that NO amateur astronomers report
seeing UFOs. (He actually says that none of them do! Read his
rebuttal.) All you're doing is reiterating his view that amateur
astronomers watch the skies more than most people. So what? So
do pilots, and they are watching the skies much more carefully
than astronomers, and there are many, many UFO reports by pilots
on record. You position is untenable.

 >Furthermore, Plait as obviously never read
 >the Gert Herb Report,
 >Has anybody? That has always been a puzzle to me. The survey
 >done of the American Astronomical Society, the professionals,
 >has been trumpeted around for twenty-five years, but Herb's
 >CUFOS amateur survey has curiously dropped off the radar screen
 >of UFOlogy. I have always wondered why?

Really? That's funny. Ufologists know about it. You know about
it. I know about it.

 >Could it be because it didn't support the contention of the
 >believers that the more one looks at the sky the more UFOs
 >one notices?

Oh, was that the believers' contention? That seems to be the
basis for the null hypothesis you are trying to prove, no one
else. I don't know any serious researchers who think that the
amount of time watching the sky is related to the number of
UFOs. However, your use of the argument to prove a negative is
interesting.

 >I was a member of the Astronomical League Council which approved
 >participation in the survey after Greta Herb made his pitch at
 >the 1976 Kutztown, Pa. national meeting. Two years later I was
 >League president when an article about the results of the survey
 >was published in our newsletter (The Reflector, August 1969, p.
 >1-2). The article was prepared by our editor from "the writings
 >of Greta Herb."

 >The League is a federation of amateur clubs with a few
 >individual members. The experience level of the club members
 >ranges from what I would call very experienced observers, some
 >of whom have been active for decades, to beginners, including
 >some children. The other two groups in the survey, the
 >Association of Lunar & Planetary Observers and the International
 >Occultation Timing Association, included mostly very experienced
 >observers, with a scattering of an occasional professional. I
 >think it is safe to assume, though, that these people, whatever
 >their experience level, probably have a better knowledge of the
 >sky and more experience looking at the sky (mostly, but not
 >exclusively at night) than the average person.

And it's somehow not relevant to you that even with the
significant observing expertise of this group, there were UFO
witnesses?

 >After the article was published I wrote a couple letters to Mr.
 >Herb, in care of CUFOS, asking if it were possible to break down
 >the numbers for experienced and less experienced observers. Even
 >though at least one of my letters was picked up at the CUFOS
 >office, I never received a response.

It obviously could never have been the tone of your letter,
could it? Could it have been that Herb may have been inundated
with responses and simply didn't have the time to respond? Or
that he was facing many cricisms from within the astronomical
community and decided to refrain from further research? The
messenger got shot, perhaps. It's another theory, at least as
valid as yours, which assumes he was incompetent.

 >22% of the amateur astronomers polled responded "yes" to the
 >question, "Have you ever observed an object which resisted your
 >most exhaustive efforts at identification?"

This isn't significant to you?

 >A smaller group, 8%, responded positively to a subdivision of
 >"high strangeness" including, "the observation of point sources
 >or extended objects in abrupt discontinuous motion, or objects
 >observed from sufficiently close distances to leave no doubt in
 >the mind of the individual about their unconventional nature,"
 >according to the summary article.

Nor this?

 >However, 3 out of 4 of the amateur astronomers polled apparently
 >didn't even think the survey was important enough to respond.
 >While a follow up was done for the two smaller groups of more
 >experienced observers, resulting in 290 returns by 57% of those
 >originally polled, for some reason no follow-up was done for the
 >thousands of League members. It is obvious that in a survey like
 >this people who were "sighters" were more likely to be motivated
 >to participate in the initial response.

Perhaps. But it's also possible that peer pressure and
uninformed predisposition among astronomers contributed to the
lack of response as well. Do you usually read this much into
surveys?

 >When one considers the actual number of responses from those
 >polled, only 5% of the amateurs polled reported seeing something
 >they couldn't identify and only 1.8% reported "high strangeness"
 >sightings.

... which supports MY point that most astronomers aren't
interested in objects that are non-astronomical.

 >>Amateurs not good enough for you? Peter Sturrock polled
 >>professional astronomers and found many of them have seen
 >>UFOs, too.

 >Reporting that they have seen a UFO:
 >American professional astronomers    -    2%
 >1973 Gallup Poll of adult Americans  -   11%
 >American amateur astronomers         -    5%
 > "high strangeness" sightings        -    2%
 >1978 Gallup Poll of adult Americans  -    9%

 >The conclusion is clear: the more familiar one is with the sky,
 >the more unlikely one is to report a UFO.

Boy, you'd be great in a test on critical thinking. Derrida
would love you. Perhaps some reading on deconstruction would be
useful. All the data shows is that the general public is about
two to four times as unfamiliar with objects in the sky as
astronomers. This is apart from the fact that the polls asked
differing questions, so cannot be compared easily (another
survey design problem). And that "the public" also includes
pilots, weather observers(and even other astronomers) who
observe the sky often.

 >>There are a few other problems with Plait's reasoning. One is
 >>that amateur astronomers aren't interested in moving lights in
 >>the sky any more than they are in identifiable aircraft. The
 >>ones I hang out with want to do some specific imaging of nebulas
 >>and galaxies, and spend a lot of time looking through eyepieces
 >>with tiny fields of view. Of course, many have now switched to
 >>computer-guided scopes and spend their time in warm-up rooms,
 >>often miles away from the telescope itself.

 >How many amateur astronomers can Chris name who have such
 >remotely operated equipment? A dozen that he's read about,
 >somewhere? I belong to an active amateur club with about 110
 >members which operates a public observatory, and not one person
 >has such equipment.

I said "many", in the context of all amateur astronomers. I knew
three personally, out of the dozen or so who were regular
observers.

 >I am even more puzzled because Chris is, I believe, a past
 >president of a local astronomy club in Winnipeg. How many
 >members of your group up there only observe electronically from
 >control rooms miles away from the 'scopes?

Out of all the members, only a comparative few. Out of the
active group who have gone on to do further research, a higher
percentage. Boy, you're really trying to mislead the list
readers by doubting my credibility, aren't you? Nice tactic.

 >>Professional astronomers are even worse in terms of observation.
 >>Few actually DO any optical observations. Many haven't looked
 >>through a telescope or spent any time looking at constellations
 >>since their undergraduate days.

 >But most professionals I've talked to were amateurs before they
 >entered the field, some with lifelong interests in astronomy,
 >often times starting in childhood. This claim that the people
 >most knowledgeable and experienced about the sky, professional
 >and amateur astronomers, somehow have never managed to noticed
 >the alien starships buzzing about the saucer skywatch crowds is,
 >to say the least, amusing.

... and this shows your own bias. I never wrote about "alien
starships." All I was discussing was UFOs, and that was what
this whole thing was about. Simple reports of unidientified
objects in the sky.

 >The polling data is clear: the more familiar one is with the
 >sky, the less likely one is to report seeing a UFO.

And that statement is not supported by the data.

Nice try, though.

 >Clear skies,
 >Bob Young


Messier nights,

Chris Rutkowski







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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Acres

From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:41:45 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 05:32:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Acres


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:27:05 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

You wrote....

 >Nice catch Dave! You saved yourself by using the qualifier
 >"untrained" when talking about your take on this piece of video.
 >Yes, it was found to have been faked. The UFO overlaps the edge
 >of the building it is supposed to be behind! Not certain if it
 >was Bruce Maccabee or Jeff Saino that busted that one. If I had
 >to guess, I 'think' it was Jeff.

Yes John. I noticed the overlap, but to me it seems the object
may have darted to the near side of the tower between frames! A
feat surely not impossible for these craft They are so agile &
fast!

If it is a fake they have spent a lot of time & effort on it!
Strikes me as strange that they would have overlooked such an
obvious blunder!

 >Be nice to have it all checked out and resolved _before_ I die.:)

Well Krekin, who speaks every New Years on CNN, says the biggest
thing since Roswell involving 4 craft, will happen in either May
or June of this year in Arizona? He is purported to be very
accurate, so your wish may come true! Fingers crossed! :)

 >Nice to meet you Dave.

 >Regards,

 >John Velez


Likewise Amigo! :)

Regards,

Dave Acres






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                                OZ UFO Images

From: Chris Beacham <cbeacham@ihug.com.au>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 18:23:13 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 05:42:09 -0400
Subject: OZ UFO Images

Hi all,

I have been enjoying the discussions, and have posted some of my
images online:

www.surfin.com.au

Any opinions?


Chris Beacham







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                Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 05:43:45 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Jones


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

Morning Bob, Chris, everyone else

<huge snip to cut to the chase>

 >But most professionals I've talked to were amateurs before they
 >entered the field, some with lifelong interests in astronomy,
 >often times starting in childhood. This claim that the people
 >most knowledgeable and experienced about the sky, professional
 >and amateur astronomers, somehow have never managed to noticed
 >the alien starships buzzing about the saucer skywatch crowds is,
 >to say the least, amusing.

Bob, just a question, but using your reasoning, which I see as
basically OK <g> _might_ the reason amateurs, or professional
astronomers are not seeing UFO's is because they are looking
further out than out atmosphere?

I am reasonably confidant than something like 99.999% of
reported UFO's are within our atmosphere, therefor with
astronomers looking _outside_ the atmosphere, would they not
miss a good bulk of the sightings?

 >The polling data is clear: the more familiar one is with the
 >sky, the less likely one is to report seeing a UFO.

I agree. I have been _doing_ UFO research for over fifteen
years, and it was only a few years ago I saw my first UFO. My
reasoning for the _delay_ wasn't for lack of looking, but
through my experience, I could identify pretty much most things
in the sky. One must remember something like 95 - 97% of
reported UFO's can be explained with sufficient research.

It's just that it's the last few that remain _unexplained_ that
interest us mortals <g>

 >Clear skies,

and the UFOs parked on the Whitehouse lawn please <g>


--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                              Charles Donovan?

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 03:21:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:22:58 -0400
Subject: Charles Donovan?


Hello all:


Does anyone know this "freelance journalist" in Britain?

I tried to answer him twice, and both times my response message
bounced for a bad email address. Problem is, I used the exact
address he used to send the message. I didn't type it in, just
hit the Reply button.

Its hard to help somebody with a bad email address.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

Original message follows:

= = = =


Subj:  Help
Date:  Fri, 17 May 2002 16:53:31 +0100
From: "Charles Donovan" <charles_donovan@hotmail.com>
  To:  <webmaster@larryhatch.net>

Dear Mr Hatch,

I am a freelance journalist in London, UK. I'm trying to
establish how many reported UFO sightings occured in various
countries last year (or an average, if that's easier to find).

The countries I'm interested in are:

USA
England
Scotland
France
Canada
Italy

I would be extremely grateful if you could let me know whether
or not you could give me an approximate idea of the number of
sightings in each country.

Many thanks for any help you can give.

Kind regards,

Charles Donovan







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              Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:00:40 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:31:09 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Friedman


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
 >>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 ><snip>

 >>[Phil] Plait's book Bad Astronomy is just out. He has a link to
 >>publishing info about it from his website: www.badastronomy.com

 ><snip>

 >>But then he gives his most damning evidence. The people who
 >>spend most of their time watching the sky (a lot more than the
 >>average person) are amateur astronomers. And, since no amateur
 >>astronomer has told Plait about their UFO sightings, no amateur
 >>astronomers have ever seen UFOs, and therefore only people
 >>unfamiliar with the sky see UFOs. And since witnesses are
 >>unfamiliar with the sky, their UFO sightings are all explainable.

 >>Nice argument, except that it's completely wrong. Even in the
 >>small sample of UFOs reported in Canada last year, there were
 >>two separate reports by amateur astronomers.

 >Hi Chris, Listerions:

 >According to your sample of 374 Canadian UFO reports last year
 >two were from people who described themselves as amateur
 >astronomers. Let's see, that's.0054%.

Sorry, Bob. That is .54% - but then what is a factor of 100
between friends? Also please note that Chris' sightings are ones
that have been reported in some way since he otherwise wouldn't
know about them. That survey tells us nothing about what % of
astronomers or physicists or hair dressers have observed UFOs. I
spoke to a few hundred amateurs at Griffith Observatory many
years ago. Almost 20% admitted having had a sighting. I think
only one had reported it.

 >How many amateurs are there in Canada? The largest group, the
 >Royal Astronomical Society of Canada, claims on its current
 >website to have 4,500 members "worldwide"; in its authoritative
 >Observer's Handbook 2001 it reported 4,200. Even if we assume
 >that 3/4 of its members last year were in Canada, the number of
 >UFO reports from amateur astronomers in the country is
 >minuscule, and even less when we consider those amateurs who are
 >not members of the RASC's 18 Centres.

 >>Furthermore, Plait as obviously never read the Gert Herb Report,

 >Has anybody? That has always been a puzzle to me. The survey
 >done of the American Astronomical Society, the professionals,
 >has been trumpeted around for twenty-five years, but Herb's
 >CUFOS amateur survey has curiously dropped off the radar screen
 >of UFOlogy. I have always wondered why?

Could it be that most people especially astronomers who sound
off anti-UFO are loathe to do any digging about UFOs at all?Do
note the absence of references to the large scientific studies
in the many SETI specialists books. I didn't like the wording of
Gert (Not Greta) Herb's study, any more than I liked Peter
Sturrock's survey wording, though he too found a significant
number of astronomer sightings as was also noted by Hynek
decades ago when he asked a number of astronomers.

 >Could it be because it didn't support the contention of the
 >believers that the more one looks at the sky the more UFOs
 >one notices?

 >I was a member of the Astronomical League Council which approved
 >participation in the survey after Greta Herb made his pitch at
 >the 1976 Kutztown, Pa. national meeting. Two years later I was
 >League president when an article about the results of the survey
 >was published in our newsletter (The Reflector, August 1969, p.
 >1-2). The article was prepared by our editor from "the writings
 >of Greta Herb."

 >The League is a federation of amateur clubs with a few
 >individual members. The experience level of the club members
 >ranges from what I would call very experienced observers, some
 >of whom have been active for decades, to beginners, including
 >some children. The other two groups in the survey, the
 >Association of Lunar & Planetary Observers and the International
 >Occultation Timing Association, included mostly very experienced
 >observers, with a scattering of an occasional professional. I
 >think it is safe to assume, though, that these people, whatever
 >their experience level, probably have a better knowledge of the
 >sky and more experience looking at the sky (mostly, but not
 >exclusively at night) than the average person.

 >After the article was published I wrote a couple letters to Mr.
 >Herb, in care of CUFOS, asking if it were possible to break down
 >the numbers for experienced and less experienced observers. Even
 >though at least one of my letters was picked up at the CUFOS
 >office, I never received a response.

 >>published a few decades ago, which gave the results of a survey
 >>of amateur astronomers, noting that a significant percentage of
 >>them do, in fact, see and report UFOs.

 >22% of the amateur astronomers polled responded "yes" to the
 >question, "Have you ever observed an object which resisted your
 >most exhaustive efforts at identification?"

 >A smaller group, 8%, responded positively to a subdivision of
 >"high strangeness" including, "the observation of point sources
 >or extended objects in abrupt discontinuous motion, or objects
 >observed from sufficiently close distances to leave no doubt in
 >the mind of the individual about their unconventional nature,"
 >according to the summary article.

 >However, 3 out of 4 of the amateur astronomers polled apparently
 >didn't even think the survey was important enough to respond.
 >While a follow up was done for the two smaller groups of more
 >experienced observers, resulting in 290 returns by 57% of those
 >originally polled, for some reason no follow-up was done for the
 >thousands of League members. It is obvious that in a survey like
 >this people who were "sighters" were more likely to be motivated
 >to participate in the initial response.

A 25% response to a survey is generally considered very good.
Where is the beef? Note also the response from the high caliber
readers of Research and Development Magazine They too see UFOs.

<snip>

 >The polling data is clear: the more familiar one is with the
 >sky, the less likely one is to report seeing a UFO.

I would agree that the more familiar one is with the sky the
less likely to _report_ anything strange that is seen lest one
be tarred with the kook brush so often applied by the Menzels
and Sagans and Drakes and Shostaks of the world.

Stan Friedman






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             Kreskin [was: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?]

From: Stanton  Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:08:19 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:37:44 -0400
Subject: Kreskin [was: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?]


 >From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:41:45 +1000
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<snip>

 >Well Kreskin, who speaks every New Years on CNN, says the
 >biggest thing since Roswell involving 4 craft, will happen in
 >either May or June of this year in Arizona? He is purported to
 >be very accurate, so your wish may come true! Fingers crossed!:)

<snip>

Kreskin said Nevada. This has been noted in several places
including a pretty decent article in Saturday Night magazine
included with the National Post of May 11 about him and me and
Inkerman, New Brunswick sightings. He has supposedly put up
$50,000US to back up his claim, to be given to charity, if it
doesn't happen. Terms not well defined at all. He refused to
appear on CBC radio with me yesterday morning though he was
interviewed separately.


Stan Friedman







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                Re: NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 08:28:09 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:55:29 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying


 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:01:05 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >Subject: Re: NASA: US Government & Unidentified Flying Objects

<snip>

 >There is something really wrong when the public servants which
 >we elect and whose salaries we pay prevent us from seeing
 >documents that are so important to us - their bosses. What is
 >also weird is that we are expected to pay millions of dollars
 >more each year for the careful storage of these important
 >historic documents which according to the current regulations we
 >will never see!

Vendors all over North America have plentiful stocks of foam
core board and four-foot-long 1" x 2" wooden sticks. Sign shops
abound for those who are weak in artistic skills. Sporting
goods stores bulge with tents, sleeping bags, and camping
cookware.

We have witnessed in Ontario, over the past year, massive
amounts of picketing over issues like homelessness and right
wing slashing of health and social programs - in all weather,
and in many locations. We have witnessed major picketing by
anti-globalization elements world wide.

Yet for some reason, it is taboo to camp out on the doorsteps of
NASA, the U.S. National Archives, the U.S. Capitol and
Whitehouse, to demand release of what rightly belongs to the
citizens who pay for these agencies and who loan them power
every 2, 4 or 5 years.

It is also taboo to appeal to the extremely large body of people
who support the release, which is at least 50% according to
recent polls, to mobilize a protest over witholding UFO
information.

Why?


Eleanor White







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                          Re: OZ UFO Images - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 06:21:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:33:27 -0400
Subject: Re: OZ UFO Images - Hatch


 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: Chris Beacham <cbeacham@ihug.com.au>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 18:23:13 +1000
 >Subject: OZ UFO Images

 >Hi all,

 >I have been enjoying the discussions, and have posted
 >some of my images online:

 >www.surfin.com.au

 >Any opinions?


Hello Chris:

I do have some ideas and impressions, if you will forgive a bit
of polite criticism:

1) If you expect people to visit your website pages, _never_
just give the address as "www.surfin.com.au" Give a full
hypertext clickable link, i.e.

http://www.surfin.com.au

.. which people can simply click on. Virtually nobody is going
to type in an address, get it wrong, and try, try again. I had
to cut and paste to get there. Only radio stations leave out the
http:// part, maybe a few tyros.

2) _Never_ put red text on a black background. Its virtually
impossible to read, and causes eye-strain! Blue against green is
almost as bad. I prefer black on white, or vice-versa, or
anything similar which is easily readable and eye-friendly.

3) The picture of a contrail looks exactly like a contrail etc.,
but again, few people will type in a URL by hand just to look at
that. You need readable text to point out and explain the more
interesting images.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

http://www.larryhatch.net






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                   Alfred's Odd Observation #16 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:43:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:36:18 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Observation #16 - Lehmberg


Alfred's Odd Observation #16 (Saturday -- May 18, 2002)

I've gotten inquiries from folks wondering if I've been 'seeing'
anything, lately. The short answer is yes. I've always said that
all one has to do is go outside at night and rock the head back
with just a smidgen of anticipating patience and a dash of
rational open-mindedness. There is stuff up there to see, good
reader, and that stuff generally rocks the 'established' world
with the sting of reality's bee. That's a good thing. "Why" is
difficult to describe.

I'm back from the west, finally, and have been back since very
early on the third - returned to soupy southern skies of lower
Alabama and the lights that flicker and crawl teasingly within
them unheralded by NASA's J-PASS...

Somebody knows.

The morning of the second was especially clear and cool,
disappointingly. A morning flight from Sacramento (to the south)
five hours and some change later crowded the allotted time
outside to watch our festooned sky. But it should be no
surprise, at this point, that 'they' were there as well, three
at once, flying in formation, the trail object playing catch-up
to the left echelon of silent objects that flew before it.....

I first noticed them below and to the left of Polaris, about 40
degrees elevation, at 3:35 Pacific time traveling west to east.
All three lights were identical in color and brightness, about
magnitude one, and were never closer than one degree (the
objects in left echelon preceding) and never farther away from
one another then three degrees (the object in trail, catching
up). The echelon traveled at a rate of 3 degrees a second and
the trail object slightly faster. The trail object was decidedly
closing with the echelon. The impression was that these three
silent objects were in one another's vicinity. I watched them
until they were obscured in the tree-line to the northeast. The
silence was deliciously discomfiting.

About half the nights since I've been back from California
(...my mother is _painting_ again!) ...have been either obscured
with morning fog, concealed by overcast, or shrouded by storm
clouds. On those remaining mornings with good visibility the
gnats, flies, and mosquitoes, refreshed by all the wet weather,
would like to have their head-banger's blood banquet in honor of
my return... but I know the 'secret' of the BounceT anti-static
dryer cloth. I could sense their woeful disappointment as they
moved off sullenly to look for dogs, squirrels, and birds
(.thanks, Mom).

The strange objects were there, of course, every time I had the
ceiling and visibility required to detect them, and I'm provoked
once again to wonder where they come from when I see them...
where they _go_ when I don't, and how many facockta satellites
am I _supposed_ to be able to see, on a day to day basis,
anyway? Many objects of varying brightness, displaying colors of
white through yellow to red, and moving at different speeds on
different tracks (including due west!)... these graced the skies
as I watched them... the prosaic non-prosaic. God, but what are
they?

I could go on about the magnitudes, elevations, and azimuths for
all the sightings. I could specify rates, specific times, and
individual colors, but I think I've demonstrated my ability to
count a measured bean (even an anomalous one!) in the previous
fifteen of these odd observations, and there's no need for the
reader to have to wade through all that. Besides, my purpose
here is to get the reader to go outside for awhile, themselves,
...measure their own rates, times and azimuths... so they can
see for _themselves_ what their conflicted mainstream would
airily (and suspiciously!) deny. The reader could have her own
horizons vastly expanded, as has happened with me.

There's a strange comfort in those expanded horizons that is
hard to define, reader, as I said before, but it's like you can
look out on these silent, tiny, and purposeful orbs with a cool
morning breeze on your face and be reassured (in as much as the
hijacked mainstream won't own up to them) that there is
something really there. _beyond_ the confines (and outside the
box!) of that jealously conflicted mainstream. Something...
further... I don't know... but something that does not dance to
a skewed mainstream's tune.

If that object can do that, stand solidly without the
mainstream's (even grudging) support, perhaps each of us (that
would want to) might find a way to do that too. Think of the
strides we will be able to take as a species then! And that's
worth all the money you have. That's worth all the money that
anybody has.

I remain watching our skies. Read on!

~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







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              Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz -

From: Scott Caput <scaput@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:00:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:38:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz -


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 17:42:37 -0700
 >Subject: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz

 >Hello, all

 >I don't know whether or not that folks in south Florida aren't
 >used to looking at the skies much. This sort of thing happens
 >year 'round when you live in Oregon. Interesting take on how
 >people react to unusual things in the sky, however. Enjoy.

 >The Miami Herald
 >05-17-2002

 >Harmless halo around the sun causes a buzz in South Florida

 >http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/local/3284810.htm


In defense of us folk here in S. Florida, this is not a normal
thing here. According to the NWS, it is quite common up by you.

Believe me, we do look up.


Scott Caput
Miami, FL







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                             Re: Kreskin - Vike

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:15:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 13:11:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Kreskin - Vike


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:08:19 -0300
 >Subject: Kreskin [was: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?]

 >>From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:41:45 +1000
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 ><snip>

 >>Well Kreskin, who speaks every New Years on CNN, says the
 >>biggest thing since Roswell involving 4 craft, will happen in
 >>either May or June of this year in Arizona? He is purported to
 >>be very accurate, so your wish may come true! Fingers crossed!:)

 ><snip>

 >Kreskin said Nevada. This has been noted in several places
 >including a pretty decent article in Saturday Night magazine
 >included with the National Post of May 11 about him and me and
 >Inkerman, New Brunswick sightings. He has supposedly put up
 >$50,000US to back up his claim, to be given to charity, if it
 >doesn't happen. Terms not well defined at all. He refused to
 >appear on CBC radio with me yesterday morning though he was
 >interviewed separately.


Howdy,

Old Kreskin was on the Art Bell show last night talking about
this UFO sighting in Nevada. He would not go much into it -
Bell pressured him to reveal something. Guess we will just have
to see what lands, who walks out, etc... I will eat a stack of
my reports if this comes true, and you can hold me to it.


Take care

Brian







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              Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:37:53 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:20:43 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Friedman


 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

<snip>

 >Bob, just a question, but using your reasoning, which I see as
 >basically OK <g>_might_ the reason amateurs, or professional
 >astronomers are not seeing UFOs is because they are looking
 >further out than out atmosphere?

 >I am reasonably confidant than something like 99.999% of
 >reported UFO's are within our atmosphere, therefore with
 >astronomers looking _outside_ the atmosphere, would they not
 >miss a good bulk of the sightings?

 >>The polling data is clear: the more familiar one is with the
 >>sky, the less likely one is to report seeing a UFO.

 >I agree. I have been _doing_ UFO research for over fifteen
 >years, and it was only a few years ago I saw my first UFO. My
 >reasoning for the _delay_ wasn't for lack of looking, but
 >through my experience, I could identify pretty much most things
 >in the sky. One must remember something like 95 - 97% of
 >reported UFOs can be explained with sufficient research.


Let's see now, Blue Book Special Report 14 had 20% UNKNOWNS, The
University of Colorado Study had 30% UNKNOWNS. In Dick Hall's
'UFO Evidence 1' it was 16%... so what is the basis for 95-97%
explainable - (3-5% Unknown)???


Stan Friedman







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                       'Insiders From NASA Speculate'

From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 14:35:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:50:46 -0400
Subject: 'Insiders From NASA Speculate'



I just received this today, the talk has been so serious lately
I thought you might enjoy some satire.

Jerry

-----


From: American Patriot Friends Network <APFN@apfn.org>
To: APFN Yahoogroups <apfn@yahoogroups.com>, APFN SMARTGROUP
<apfn@smartgroups.com>
Subject: Insiders from NASA speculate.....
Date: Sat, May 18, 2002, 11:29 AM


More Latest Info from Mark Hazelwood 020102

http://survivalcenter.com/LatestMarkH020102.html

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=26876

Insiders from NASA speculate 2/3 of the population of the planet
will perish during the coming pole-shift caused by the passage
of Planet X in 2003. Another 2/3 of those that survive initially
will pass away to starvation and exposure to the elements within
6 months. Every secretive gov't agency in the USA is fully aware
of what is expected in 2003 and are readying themselves. The
Vatican is fully abreast of what is expected. The public is not
being warned and given their chance to prepare.

The volume of leaks from insiders, observatories, and the
Vatican is going to burst the dam of this disclosure wide open.
The most important story on earth in over 3000 years is fast
breaking loose from being held back by the controllers of the
financial markets and major media for fear of panic and
financial collapse. The public can be given a chance to prepare
by being informed. Our planet is about to go through massive
regular earthchanges once again in the Spring of 2003 as a
result of the passage of our 10th planet through our immediate
solar system. Planet X orbits between our sun and its dark twin.
A diagram from the 1987 NEW SCIENCE & INVENTION ENCYCLOPEDIA
shows our dead twin sun & the 10th planet. (see diagram here):

http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tworx372.htm

Zecharia Sitchin, the world renowned scholar, author of "The
12th Planet" and archeologist, does indicate on occasion his
knowledge of the return of Nibiru AT THIS TIME!" To be too
public about it would prove dangerous because of his weight in
the scientific community.

A group of scientists in Russia in year 2000 held several
meetings to discuss the inbound planet discovered from one of
their largest observatories. A 66 year old professor and
physicist let it be known he attended this meeting. This led to
the infamous "2003 Problem" Reuters news service wire on
Sept.13th 2000. Top Russian government officials called for a
commission to study the problem which was said to expect to
cause "a string of calamities and a massive population
shrinkage." They openly wondered whether Russia would still even
exist as a country afterwards. Andrei Shukshin, who wrote this
story, has admitted publicly he did not know why the Russian
leaders were saying this and added his own speculation that
didn't fit the story. All follow-up stories written to quash the
disclosure elaborated on Andrei's speculation and left out key
points in the original story.

Private contact made by a wealthy business man in Germany to a
large observatory in St. Petersburg, Russia yielded significant
information. The man in charge of finding new planets there
admitted they've been watching Planet X for 3 years and are
worried about the substantial damage it will do to Earth during
its passage. The name they gave for Planet X was "Raja Sun" or
"Great Star."

I recently received a call from Canada. Roy was thanking me for
having received my book. His first call to a local observatory
yielded the following results. An intern to the astronomers
answered. Roy asked if she had heard of Planet X. She said
"yes," but told him "she wasn't supposed to talk about it & the
scientists were in disagreement as to whether it would cause
substantial damage when it passed." Roy then asked one of the
astronomers employed there with her. The astronomer said that
they don't look at objects such as that.

Insiders in NASA & the military privately confirm that many of
them are quietly contracting out the building of dome-homes
(strongest structure known to man) in the upper USA (one of the
safest areas). These domes should withstand the hurricane force
winds and world wide earthquakes expected at the time. If these
domes are built in the rolling hills or foothills, well away
from the shorelines, major population centers, and flat plains
(that are expected to flood with the constant rain and melting
poles), the chances of survival are as good as you can get.

There are a wide variety of alternatives to dome housing.
Some are very inexpensive:

http://www.networkearth.org/naturalbuilding/honey.html
http://www.calearth.org/photogal.htm
http://www.deatech.com/natural/dealy/freebldg/
http://www.terra-dome.com/index.html
http://www.aidomes.com/
http://www.monolithicdome.com/

If you've ever watched the Flintstones cartoons, you can imagine
how you might get around without auto fuel. Look here:

http://www.rhoadescar.com/jumplobb.htm

Trusting the pentagon and the government to guard itself & relay
needed information to protect you is clearly illogical. Planet X
is Nibiru, Wormwood, or THE MOST REVERED HEAVENLY BODY IN ALL
ANTIQUITY. After 3660 years on its regular orbit, it will pass
again in SPRING 2003. Planet X's effects on Earth are clearly
shown as recorded in ANCIENT TEXTS and in THE SCIENCE OF GEOLOGY
& ARCHEOLOGY with each passage. I've uncovered 34 names for
Planet X in my book from a wide variety of sources and since
then several more like "The Destroyer." {See its coordinates and
actual comparative pictures of Planet X from these two urls):

http://www.zetatalk.com/usenet/use90207.htm
http://www.zetatalk.com/usenet/use90375.htm

"WHAT IS APPROACHING US?"

Father Malachi Martin explains in 1997 that the celestial body
approaching us will cause millions to perish during its passage
in 5-10 years.Even the Vatican owns its own telescope. VATT
(Vartican Advanced Technology Telescope) is operated out of the
Mt. Graham Observatory located in
SE Arizona.

http://clavius.as.arizona.edu/vo/vatt.html
http://medusa.as.arizona.edu/graham/graham.html


The purpose for Mt. Graham International Observatory is
explained in an interview with Art Bell. The actual time of the
clip is April 5th, 1997at 4:30AM PST. The complete broadcast
begins Friday, April 4th, 1997 at 10 PM PST.

http://members.aol.com/capnkent/vatican.htm


Malachi Martin's background:

Father Malachi Martin, eminent theologian, expert on the
Catholic Church, former Jesuit and professor at the Vatican's
Pontifical Biblical Institute, is the author of the national
best-sellers Vatican, The Final Conclave, Hostage to the Devil,
and The Jesuits. He was trained in theology at Louvain. There he
received his doctorates in Semitic Languages, Archeology and
Oriental History. He subsequently studied at Oxford and at
Hebrew University in Jerusalem. From 1958 to 1964 he served in
Rome, where he was a close associate of the renowned Jesuit
Cardinal Augustin Bea and Pope John XXIII. Martin passed away
late 1999. Some believe his death was a result of his open
disclosures of the inbound planet and that the Vatican did not
want to reveal this was also tied to the 3rd Secret of Fatima.

I understand that the Catholic church sponsors and engages in
scientific studies and not just to prove biblical history.

As of late there's been a rash of observatories that have closed
their doors for various reasons. Many will simply not point
their equipment for anyone in the direction of the Orion
constellation if they do remain open. Some will give an excuse
that there is some sort of obstruction in the way or equipment
failure. All at once, renovations are their favorite excuse.
Griffith Observatory is the latest of a handful of the nation's
oldest planetariums to undergo major renovations in recent
years. Others include the Adler Planetarium & Astronomy Museum
in Chicago and the Hayden Planetarium at the Rose Center for
Earth and Space in New York. Coincidental or not, there are
other observatories in various countries doing the same thing at
this time.

X has INTENTIONALLY BEEN MADE TO SOUND RIDICULOUS and confusing
for several reasons. One of which is to avoid causing panic
among the world's population. Many websites and articles
continue to be written about Planet X that spread lies. They say
it only MAY exist or there's no evidence for its existence or it
comes around only once every few million years if it does exist.
This disinformation is widespread. The second layer of
disinformation is for people that have done their homework and
absolutely know that Planet X does exist. For them, the
disinformation artists are saying it will not arrive in our
lifetime. Lastly, for the observatories that are completely
aware of Planet X and its arrival time, they are saying "keep
quiet and don't worry, nothing will happen during the passage."

X's MASS, HIGH-PLASMA-CHARGED MAGNETISM and DENSITY is such that
it DISRUPTS the surface of EVERY PLANET IT PASSES. In fact,
history shows approximately 7 YEARS PRIOR to its passage that
its far reaching electromagnetic and gravitational influence
changes Earth's core flows, TRIGGERING MAJOR WEATHER CHANGES.
VOLCANIC and SEISMIC ACTIVITY start to change 3-4 decades prior
to each passage. Since early 1996 traditional WEATHER has
CHANGED DRAMATICALLY, breaking all time records regularly. The
up-tick of QUAKES, VOLCANIC INCIDENTS and changes in
ELECTROMAGNETICS are being kept out of the media as much as
possible. Weather alone can falsely be blamed on global warming
& sun cycles but not earth's rumblings and solar system wide
changes at the same time.

99% of the universe is made up of charged-plasma. Planets are
dense-charged-plasma-spheres. The approach of Planet X back into
our immediate solar system is sending a tremendous amount of
plasma energy particles and electricity to all the planets in
our solar system via the filamentary magnetic field lines that
criss-cross the universe. The entire Universe is a web of
electricity and plasma is the conductor. (See and take pictures
and drawings from this site):

http://www.holoscience.com/eu/synopsis/2.teu.html

The media would have you believe that it is the pollution of our
industrial civilization that is the cause of the weather changes
or has caused global warming over the last few years. They fail
to mention the seismic and volcanic changes occurring
simultaneously. When you understand how our sun and all the
planets of our solar system are also being effected by Planet
X's approach, you'll see how ridiculous the media cover-up
becomes.

Volcanic and seismic activity have increased 500 percent since
1975. All planets are changing. Basically, all the planets and
sun are experiencing unusual phenomena, increased activity, and
unusual weather. This is the Russian perspective on earth
changes. Hard facts that are going unreported in America. The
atmospheres of the planets are changing. Dr. Dmitriev's work
shows that the planets themselves are changing. They are
undergoing changes in their atmospheres. For example, the
Martian atmosphere is getting sizably thicker than it was
before. Earth's moon is growing an atmosphere. Also, Earth's
moon is growing an atmosphere which is made up of a compound
Dmitriev refers to as "Natrium." Dmitriev says that, around the
moon there is this 6,000-kilometer-deep layer of Natrium that
wasn't there before.

Plus, we're having this kind of change in Earth's atmosphere in
the upper levels, where HO gas is forming that wasn't there
before; it simply did not exist in the quantity that it does
now. It's not related to global warming and it's not related to
CFCs or fluorocarbon emissions or any of that stuff. It's just
showing up.

Magnetic fields and brightness of the planets are changing. The
planets are experiencing sizable changes in their overall
brightness. Venus, for example, is showing us marked increases
in its overall brightness. Jupiter has gotten to have such a
high energetic charge that there is actually a visible tube of
ionizing radiation that's formed between its moon. You can
actually see the luminous energy tube in photographs that have
been taken more recently..

The planets are having a change in their magnetic fields. They
are becoming stronger. Jupiter's magnetic field has more than
doubled. Uranus's magnetic field is changing.

Neptune's magnetic field is increasing. These planets are
becoming brighter. Their magnetic field strength is getting
higher. Their atmospheric qualities are changing.

Uranus and Neptune appear to have had recent pole shifts. When
the Voyager 2 space probe flew past Uranus and Neptune, the
apparent north and south magnetic poles were sizably offset from
where the rotational pole was. In one case, it was 50 degrees
off and in the other case the difference was around 40 degrees,
both of which are pretty big changes.

The overall changes could essentially be broken down into three
categories: Energy field changes, luminosity changes, and
atmospheric changes.

Natural disasters increased 410 percent between 1963 and 1993.
This does not take into account the largest increases that have
taken place in the last 8-9 years since then! Dr. Dmitriev did a
very elaborate calculation of natural disasters to come up with
these figures. The Sun's magnetic field increased by 230 percent
since 1901.

So, all in all, what we're seeing is a lot more than just what
they call Earth Changes. Very, very few people are aware of the
work that is being done in the Russian National Academy of
Sciences in Siberia, specifically in Novosibirsk, where they are
doing this research.

The glowing plasma at the leading edge of our Solar System has
recently increased 1000 percent. That higher-charged energy is
in turn exciting the plasma and causing more of it to form, so
you see more luminosity, more brightness. This energy is then
flowing into the Sun, which in turn emits the energy and spreads
it out along its equatorial plane, which is called the Ecliptic.
All this is happening all at the same time and it's all working
up to a crescendo where there is going to be a sudden shift.

Research the advent of PLANET X and the cataclysms it will
trigger by passing EARTH. Being prepared and FOREWARNED gives
one an EXCELLENT CHANCE to SURVIVE.

Even the majority of the earthchange intuitives prophecies are
tied into or name Planet X.

ALL OTHER NEWS PALES IN COMPARISON TO THIS IMPENDING MEGA WORLD
WIDE EVENT OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS.

For more information:

http://www.metatech.org/planet_x_niburu_earth_changes.html
http://www.prep2003.com
http://www.planetx2003.f2s.com/

PREPARATION:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prep2003prep

SPIRITUAL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpiritualPrep2003

DISCUSSION: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prep2003discuss
DEBATE:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PX2003_Debate

READ ONLY:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/preparation2003

MORE RESEARCH INFO AND WHAT TO DO:
http://www.survivalcenter.com/Planetx.html

To get a copy of: "BLINDSIDED, PLANET X Passes in 2003, EARTHCHANGES!"

or Toll Free at 1-800-321-2900 ext. 2

http://www.survivalcenter.com/Planetx.html
=====================================================================

Locating the 12th Planet - zetatalk@zetatalk.com
http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/tteam342.htm

DISTANCE [Planet X] - zetatalk@zetatalk.com
http://www.zetatalk.com/usenet/use90207.htm

================================================================

http://www.survivalcenter.com/Planetx.html

So, all in all, what we're seeing is a lot more than just what
they call Earth Changes. Very, very few people are aware of the
work that is being done in the Russian National Academy of
Sciences in Siberia, specifically in Novosibirsk, where they are
doing this research.

The glowing plasma at the leading edge of our Solar System has
recently increased 1000 percent. That higher-charged energy is
in turn exciting the plasma and causing more of it to form, so
you see more luminosity, more brightness. This energy is then
flowing into the Sun, which in turn emits the energy and spreads
it out along its equatorial plane, which is called the Ecliptic.
All this is happening all at the same time and it's all working
up to a crescendo where there is going to be a sudden shift.

================================================================

Planet x... Nibiru - ninlil2002@hotmail.com
Sat May 18 13:52:48 2002
67.25.92.141

Nibiru is definetly a planet and is moving round the universe on
its path to come close to earth... they believe it willget here
in 2003.. I personally.. (even tho most think I am nuts) do not
believe it will cause such terrible amount of distruction.. This
is its normal path and guided by laws of the universe and has
pasted by before.. I think some distructive hi tides and maybe
some earthquakes but not 2/3 rds of everyone gone...we have
earth upheavals all the time with many dead.. but this will not
be any worse.. of course if you are affected, you may feel it is
the end of the world... distruction of any kind is not welcome.

ninlil2002@hotmail.com

POST REPLY AT:
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=26885

================================================================


FBI planned to deport Einstein
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/170502/detFOR02.asp






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   May > May 18

              Power Outages & Stalled Cars [was: Are Photos And

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 21:20:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:58:15 -0400
Subject: Power Outages & Stalled Cars [was: Are Photos And


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:06:34 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 00:32:48 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:33:04 -0400
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>Subject: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

<snip>

 >Car motors, electrical system failures, even the neutralization
 >of nuclear weapons systems has been a part of UFO contact
 >reports almost since day one. So too for the abduction reports.
 >Just one of the 'ubiquitous' details that often accompanies
 >abduction reports has to do with electrical failures during the
 >event. Either in the home or in the car etc.

Hello John, List,

Hope you don't mind me butting in, maybe slightly off-topic. As
you say a video or a photo somehow _ought_ to command the same
respect regardless of the name society chooses to attach to the
thing in the image, but as Dick Hall also rightly says the fact
is that science is a messy social activity with a very
complicated dynamic and the best it has to offer is a temporary
consensus. All of us with a background of some interest in this
business but who haven't the "benefit" of direct personal
witness (and I'm sure it doesn't always seem such a great
benefit!) are, if we're conscientious, just very confused most
of the time as to what the hell it all _does_ add up to.

Like so many people (hands up, here!) I got fascinated when I
was young and frankly not very critical. I think my attitude to
evidence is a whole lot more sophisticated these days, but
clarifying the problem hasn't led to an easy solution, and I can
easily understand why people who weren't so "lucky" as to absorb
the necessary curiosity and background through innocent osmosis
have a hard time summoning up the sheer doggedness needed to dig
in for the long haul against a lot of negative social and peer
pressure.

It isn't just videos and photos, of course. And it isn't just
UFOs either. The world is choked full of fascinating and
insightful ideas, wonderful talents, pitiable causes and
beautiful things that 'we' collectively deign to ignore or spit
on. I'm personally mortified by how culpable I am. I collude, by
ommission, in the rather poor and unimaginative response of
society at large to the world I live in. We all help to decide
what reality is. Sadly we don't all have first hand information
about most things that clamour for our notice, and other
people's experience just isn't vivid enough to motivate us.

If a bunch of policement testify in court that they witnessed a
crime their combined evidence can go along way to convicting a
suspect. This evidence gets the respect of the 'science of
jurisprudence', and records of criminal profiles and conviction
rates get used by social scientists as valid data. On the other
hand, if the same bunch of policeman say they saw a flying
saucer the case never even gets heard because there just isn't a
constituted 'court'. As a society we don't care enough.

Science may be judged by history to have failed you, but it
isn't about objective standards of evidence, it's about social
priorities and personal responsibility. Imagine if there were no
criminal courts, and a bunch of busy academics were asked to
examine a file of murder evidence in their spare weekends to
decide whether a suspect should or should not go to the chair.
Then imagine you were one of those academics. How easy would it
be to decline? Imagine if you had to put yourself out to
discover whether or not any such jobs were available in the
first place? How much free time would you or I regretfully find
we didn't have in these circumstances? Meanwhile, while we went
out to the faculty dinner, there'd still be someone in a cell
sweating. "Well, someone else'll take care of it."

I know that's a bit dramatic, but maybe after a while it's not
easy for someone who is speaking from the certainty of their own
personal experience, like you, to get into the minds of those of
us who are struggling to balance curiosity and objectivity - not
to mention the minds of that academic group who frankly don't
give a damn if it hasn't got "career advancement" written across
it in letters of fire. Speaking personally (and I'm not an
academic!), in moments of excitability I'm convinced that I have
a handle on what 'the UFO problem' is, but then I remember how
confused I really am and how subtle the total body of evidence
really is.

For example: With reference to your discussion of power outages
and stalled cars, I wonder if anyone can claim to fully
understand the meaning of UFO evidence who hasn't understood the
meaning of the fact that (as Vallee pointed out over 30 years
ago) the first case of a fiery flying object that caused town
lights to fail and landed to disgorge two white-coveralled
humanoids was in Arthur Koestler's 1933 play 'The Twilight Bar'.
And the first description of a UFO stalling a car engine was not
in a Blue Book report but in a 1950 novel! I corresponded with
Koestler about that play shortly before his death; he was just
puzzled; he'd made it up out of thin air, a piece of
"synchronicity"; he hadn't experienced any strange visions or
read any secret documents. Does all this have anything to say
about multiple-witness electrical interference UFO cases? Sure
it does. I just wish to hell I knew what!


Regards

Martin Shough







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   May > May 19

                             Re: Kreskin - Vike

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 14:47:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:20:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Kreskin - Vike


 >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:15:06 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Kreskin

 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:08:19 -0300
 >>Subject: Kreskin [was: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?]

 >>>From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:41:45 +1000
 >>>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >><snip>

 >>>Well Kreskin, who speaks every New Years on CNN, says the
 >>>biggest thing since Roswell involving 4 craft, will happen in
 >>>either May or June of this year in Arizona? He is purported to
 >>>be very accurate, so your wish may come true! Fingers crossed!:)

 >><snip>

 >>Kreskin said Nevada. This has been noted in several places
 >>including a pretty decent article in Saturday Night magazine
 >>included with the National Post of May 11 about him and me and
 >>Inkerman, New Brunswick sightings. He has supposedly put up
 >>$50,000US to back up his claim, to be given to charity, if it
 >>doesn't happen. Terms not well defined at all. He refused to
 >>appear on CBC radio with me yesterday morning though he was
 >>interviewed separately.

 >Old Kreskin was on the Art Bell show last night talking about
 >this UFO sighting in Nevada. He would not go much into it -
 >Bell pressured him to reveal something. Guess we will just have
 >to see what lands, who walks out, etc... I will eat a stack of
 >my reports if this comes true, and you can hold me to it.



Hello Brian:


I vaguely recall something along those lines.

It is really difficult to get a mentalist (or whatever) to
predict something, but occasionally they might, especially if
they had a drink or three [burp.]

Personally, I predict that the cat will eat the dog tomorrow,
and if not then vice versa. Failing that, I expect to get out of
bed at a later hour than usual.

All of these catastrophes will take place in or about Redwood
City, California; and all within a 300 month time window.



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

= = = = =






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   May > May 19

               [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

From: Conway Costigan <c_costigan@canada.com>
Date: 18 May 2002 09:55:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:21:46 -0400
Subject: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded


I heard this one with a considerable degree of hilarity. I
suppose the big K is using this to jump-start his lounge lizard
mentalist act.

First of all he has said that everything involved in his act has
nothing to do with the paranormal. It is all stage magic,
misdirection, sleight-of-hand, technological stuff.

For him to mention ufos is somewhat out of character. I could
probably expect David Copperfield expect to "materialize" a huge
craft in mid air - after all, that is his gig, but Kreskin?? He
usually does one-on-one or group stuff.

However, his claim that it would be so large and seen by so many
that ufos would have to be taken seriously doesn't hold water
either.  However, he didn't say that it would be an ET-style
craft, simply "ufo" which is anything.

The many ufos seen over the White House in 1953 or '54, was seen
by hundreds if not thousands, photographed and splashed over the
newspapers of the world.

Then three days later, contrary to the newshound's genetic
imperative of following up... the story... simply...
disappeared.

If indeed it comes about (which I doubt, or if it does it is a
publicity trick)  it will either be downright ignored, made into
a blimp, or otherwise downplayed or ridiculed.

But hey, it gives his act a little zip, increases his
appearance schedule... and he will donate the 50 G's to charity
saying, "they changed their minds".


Regards,

(a very cynical) CC







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   May > May 19

                         Re: OZ UFO Image - Beacham

From: Chris Beacham <cbeacham@ihug.com.au>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 09:34:58 +1000
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:24:20 -0400
Subject: Re: OZ UFO Image - Beacham


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 06:21:10 -0700
 >Subject: Re: OZ UFO Images


 >Hello Chris:

 >I do have some ideas and impressions, if you will forgive a bit
 >of polite criticism:

 >1) If you expect people to visit your website pages, _never_
 >just give the address as "www.surfin.com.au" Give a full
 >hypertext clickable link, i.e.

http://www.surfin.com.au

 >.. which people can simply click on. Virtually nobody is going
 >to type in an address, get it wrong, and try, try again. I had
 >to cut and paste to get there. Only radio stations leave out the
 >http:// part, maybe a few tyros.

 >2) _Never_ put red text on a black background. Its virtually
 >impossible to read, and causes eye-strain! Blue against green is
 >almost as bad. I prefer black on white, or vice-versa, or
 >anything similar which is easily readable and eye-friendly.

 >3) The picture of a contrail looks exactly like a contrail etc.,
 >but again, few people will type in a URL by hand just to look at
 >that. You need readable text to point out and explain the more
 >interesting images.

 >Best wishes
 >- Larry Hatch

http://www.larryhatch.net


Hi Larry,

Thank for your comments and your points about the site are well
taken. I will fix it up the next time I'm in there.....

The CD (which is being assembled by pros by the way :-) ) has
been my main focus, and my view has always been that when the
pics are viewed together, in sequence, and in chronological
order any information available will reveal itself to the
viewer. I am reluctant to 'colour' the perception with my own
views, which have changed over the last couple of years. I will
try and say a little more though...

I have been reading the posts on whether or not UFO pics are
valid evidence. I can only ask, valid evidence for who? Is the
phenomena on trial?

For me,images are a way to study the phenomena in a way that is
not otherwise possible. In sightings of Light phenomena it is
impossible for the human eye to distinguish anything apart from
an intense white light. A camera manipulates light to create
it's impression. Telescopes and Tele lenses, together with
extended and shorter shutter speeds, are all valid tools that
should not be discarded in trying to understand the phenomena.


Chris







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   May > May 19

                   Re: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 23:38:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:29:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory


 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:55:38 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
 >Subject: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory

 >I have plans to return to Ottawa soon to do follow up checks on
 >some of these other individuals that were also involved, along
 >with Smith, in Canada's flying saucer research projects. I would
 >appreciate it a lot if anyone can provide me with additional
 >information or new leads about these UFO projects and I will
 >share whatever I find in future posts to UFO UpDates, including
 >more about the two pre-Sputnik satellites.


Thanks for mentioning your research of the Canadian 'X' files.
We look forward to learning more about what really happened with
Smith et al back in those early, formative days of ufology.







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   May > May 19

              Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz -

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 21:30:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:32:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz -


 >From: Scott Caput <scaput@bellsouth.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:00:03 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz

 >>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 17:42:37 -0700
 >>Subject: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz

 >>I don't know whether or not that folks in south Florida aren't
 >>used to looking at the skies much. This sort of thing happens
 >>year 'round when you live in Oregon. Interesting take on how
 >>people react to unusual things in the sky, however. Enjoy.

 >>The Miami Herald
 >>05-17-2002

 >>Harmless halo around the sun causes a buzz in South Florida

 >>http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/local/3284810.htm

 >In defense of us folk here in S. Florida, this is not a normal
 >thing here. According to the NWS, it is quite common up by you.

 >Believe me, we do look up.


Hello, Scott.

I can imagine what  would do if you didn't see those things
often enough, kind of like the Aurora Borealis here, not very
common and it gets noticed when it happens. Once one was
reported as a fire (reddish glow behind a hill) up on the lower
end of the Wenatchee National Forest-by a lookout.

Sent a leadplane and AirTanker (mine) out to look the next
morning-nothing. The Lookout swore it was there, flames and all,
(UFO reasearchers take note) and was regarded as a bit nuts by
everyone involved. The next night there was a huge Auroral Event
and it left _no_ doubt what the lookout saw.

The flames were the "shimmering" effects of the Aurora, it
really helped when the whole thing turned from a bright red to a
bright green in seconds, it seems.


GT McCoy







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              Re: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 23:38:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:30:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory - Maccabee


 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:55:38 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
.Subject: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory

 >I have plans to return to Ottawa soon to do follow up checks on
 >some of these other individuals that were also involved, along
 >with Smith, in Canada's flying saucer research projects. I would
 >appreciate it a lot if anyone can provide me with additional
 >information or new leads about these UFO projects and I will
 >share whatever I find in future posts to UFO UpDates, including
 >more about the two pre-Sputnik satellites.


Thanks for mentioning your research of the Canadian
"X" files.  We look forward to learning more about what really
happened with Smith et al back in those early, formative
days of ufology.







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                               New Fatima Book

From: Joaquim Fernandes <j.fernan@netcabo.pt>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 12:26:24 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:36:50 -0400
Subject: New Fatima Book


Dear List members,


WE have been published a new research book named 'Fatima -
  Behind The Secret Scenes' (Lisbon, =C2ncora Editora, April,
2002), where we discussed the historic and sociological grounds
of the Fatima Apparitions message and the Jesuitic function and
their importance in the religious scenario and devotion. The
book is a deep and documented investigation on the Jesuitic
basis and background of the Fatima Message; its a critical and
objective view supported by documents, and not an apologetic,
fictional or materialist perspective. The work goes deeply on
the common grounds of the beliefs, comparing the contactee and
visionary experiences in the religious and secular frames of
reference, analyzing the progressive construction and
socialization of the message/secret, the medium and the popular
cult associated.

The authors, the historians Fina d'Armada and Joaquim Fernandes
are studying the Fatima issue since the late 70's. This is their
third book.

WE believe soon the English-readers will have chance to get a
U.S. translation of this research.

We believe that students and readers of the human extraordinary
phenomena would like to contact with such comparative approach
between those complex and significant phenomena.


Greetings,

Joaquim Fernandes

CTEC

University Fernando Pessoa
Porto
Portugal







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                Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 22:15:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:34:29 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - McCoy


Hello, all Sean, Bob.

 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

<snip>

 >>But most professionals I've talked to were amateurs before they
 >>entered the field, some with lifelong interests in astronomy,
 >>often times starting in childhood. This claim that the people
 >>most knowledgeable and experienced about the sky, professional
 >>and amateur astronomers, somehow have never managed to noticed
 >>the alien starships buzzing about the saucer skywatch crowds is,
 >>to say the least, amusing.

I wonder how many get "dissed" as Satillites or Airplanes at
such meetings. Also it is just not P.C. to say there are UFO's
to a large part of the astronomy community amateur or otherwise,
you'd get your Plossils takenaway and your red filtered
everready flashlight broken ala the opening scene of the old TV
show 'Branded'.

 >Bob, just a question, but using your reasoning, which I see as
 >basically OK <g>_might_ the reason amateurs, or professional
 >astronomers are not seeing UFO's is because they are looking
 >further out than out atmosphere?

 >I am reasonably confidant than something like 99.999% of
 >reported UFO's are within our atmosphere, therefor with
 >astronomers looking _outside_ the atmosphere, would they not
 >miss a good bulk of the sightings?

This is true, you tend to be focused on one part of the sky, not
all of it or other parts at the same time if you are going to
look at say the Orion Nebula you might not notice that formation
of UFO's over in Cassiopia has just spelled, say, "Sagan is a
fink" in red and blue.

 >>The polling data is clear: the more familiar one is with the
 >>sky, the less likely one is to report seeing a UFO.

 >I agree. I have been _doing_ UFO research for over fifteen
 >years, and it was only a few years ago I saw my first UFO. My
 >reasoning for the _delay_ wasn't for lack of looking, but
 >through my experience, I could identify pretty much most things
 >in the sky. One must remember something like 95 - 97% of
 >reported UFO's can be explained with sufficient research.

 >It's just that it's the last few that remain _unexplained_ that
 >interest us mortals <g>

Yes especially the shiny mettallic ones with lights around the
rim of a disk. That move silently from a dead stop. With a total
of five witnesses. Without so much as a pelican sqawk.

 >>Clear skies,

 >and the UFOs parked on the Whitehouse lawn please <g>

I agree, much better than a Klingon Battle Fleet covering a
full moon.


GT McCoy







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               Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Mancusi

From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:40:38 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:38:18 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Mancusi


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:37:53 -0300
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >>>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 ><snip>

 >Let's see now, Blue Book Special Report 14 had 20% UNKNOWNS, The
 >University of Colorado Study had 30% UNKNOWNS. In Dick Hall's
 >'UFO Evidence 1' it was 16%... so what is the basis for 95-97%
 >explainable - (3-5% Unknown)???


Hi Stan,

In 'The UFO Handbook', p. 22, Allan Hendry found on 1,307 cases:
88.6% IFOs (1,158), 8.6% UFOs (113) and 2.8% exceptions (36).


Regards

Bruno







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                     CI: 05-19-02 New Image of 'Hollow'

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 09:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:42:40 -0400
Subject: CI: 05-19-02 New Image of 'Hollow'


The Cydonian Imperative
5-19-02

New Image of "Hollow"
by Mac Tonnies

See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 31)

In 2000, the Mars Global Surveyor captured an image of a faceted
mesa located below the Face in Cydonia. Mark Carlotto noted that
the mesa appeared to have a hollow surface.

[image]

The Hollow (2000).

Malin Space Science Systems' new release includes a view of the
Hollow in much better resolution:

[image]

The Hollow (2002).

Upon close inspection, it appears that the impression of a
recessed surface is caused primarily by a linear elevated
feature found near the Hollow's northern side (near the
extensive "faceting" noted in a previous article). The Hollow is
Face-like in several respects, and features a very straight
eastern edge similar to the periphery of the Face's framing
mesa. One wonders if these traits originate from artificial
modification or from a common geological mechanism. If the
latter, the elevated "wall" may be analogous to the ramp-like
defile on top of the Cliff.

[image]

The Cliff (2001). Note the central defile's resemblance to the
unsual "wall" on the Hollow.

-end-








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                   RPIT News - FW Pictures Reveal New Info

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 15:54:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:40:35 -0400
Subject: RPIT News - FW Pictures Reveal New Info

RPIT News - Fort Worth pictures reveal new information

Dear All,

There has been one question about the photographs that James
Bond Johnson took on the afternoon of July 8th 1947 in Gen Roger
Ramey's office at Fort Worth Army Air Field that has so far
remained unanswered.

Exactly when during that afternoon were they taken?.

There have been many diverse opinions but little solid evidence
of the precise time, even Bond himself can only remember the
sequence of events and not their timing.

I now believe the RPIT can give a firm answer to this question
through new research carried out in the last few weeks.

It has been known for some time that in the FW images Bond
Johnson not only captured the scene within Ramey's office, but
also in some of the pictures he captured the scene outside the
office through the gap in the curtains of the window seen in the
images. It was known some time ago that parts of a car can be
made out through this narrow gap, interesting but it seemed of
little use at the time and in most prints of the FW pictures
these details are extreamly vague as the window scene is usually
very over exposed.

A few weeks ago, by chance I was looking through the scans of
the RameyDuBose FW image that were obtained by Stanton Friedman.
For those who are not aware of these scans and what they
contain, they are high resolution drum scans of the original
RameyDuBose negative held by the Univ of Texas Library at
Alington and were targeted at the Ramey Message area of the
negative. But a couple of general lower resolution scans were
made of the whole negative and it was these I was browsing. Some
of the whole negative scans appear to be tests, and one in
particular is very dark which detracts from the debris content
of the image but as I noticed, gives quite good detail of the
external view through the gap in the window cutains and as I
examind the view, I realised this was the best detail I had seen
yet of this area, I also realised I was looking in pretty good
detail of a car's number plate and fender, a very distinctive
combination.

Bond Johnson's memories of July 8th were also easily confirmed,
he recalled a hot sunny day and sure enough the car appears in
bright sunshine with a noticable shadow. It was at this point I
stopped and realised I was looking at the time of the picture
shoot. The fender and it's shadow made a crude but acurate "sun
dial". We knew the location of the picture so all we had to do
was obtain a sun table for Fort Worth on the 8th July 1947 and
then match the angle cast by the fender with the table to obtain
the time the picture was taken.

Canadian RPIT member Andrew Lavoie already had computer
modelling software set up for analising the FW pictures so I
contacted him with the idea of measuring the shadow angle, he
thought it possible to do. By this time I had also tracked down
what I thought the make and model of the car who's fender is
seen in the image. With this additional information Andrew
refine his "model" to obtain as accurate a time as possible.

The car seen through Ramey's window is a 1941 Buick Century
Series 60, only this Series had the unique fender/plate
combination seen in the images, the Series 60 was widely used by
the US military as a staff car and would not be out of place on
a mlitary base such as FWAAF. We might also be able to refine
this a little further as what seems to be the rear window of the
car is seen in the RameyAlone image. This is quite a poor
quality view as the only examples I have are from prints and not
a drum scanner as with Stanton's scans. This apparent rear
window also has what seem to be unique features and in this case
they were limited to the "Sedanette" sub model of the Century
Series 60 1941 Buick.

With the image information and addition engineering information
of car itself, Andrew has been able to narrow down the timeframe
for the RameyDubose image to a 20min slot between 4.05pm and
4.25pm Fort Worth time, July 8th 1947.

Significantly this not only tells us when the image was taken,
but also the time the Ramey Message was being read by Gen Ramey
and places it and it's contents firmly in the Roswell Timeline
in that 20 min time-slot.

Our thanks go out to Andrew Lavoie for all his work in this
research. Andrew has placed an illustrated summery of his
reseach on his website located at:

http://pages.sprint.ca/RPITCANADA_1/files/rdb_photo_shoot_001.htm


Best Regards

Neil






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                           Asking The Big Question

From: Christopher Kelly <tophar@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 03:23:01 +1000
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:47:54 -0400
Subject: Asking The Big Question


Greetings Readers, Listeners and List Members,

SDI was great yesterday or last night, depending where on this
world you are. SDI, presenter, team and guests alike can be
proud of the fact they are bringing much credibility to the
subject of UFOs, 'The Phenomenon', by way of the radio show
Strange Days... Indeed.

For those of you whom haven't caught the show yet, have a listen
as I think you will agree Errol does a very good job of dealing
with this still somewhat touchy subject with great gusto. But
without adding to the giggle factor that this subject is more
often than not labelled with. I hope Errol does have Joyce back
as she did a really good job and brought an added dimension to
the show.

Anyway, enough of sucking up to you guys; (well I'm not really
doing that I'm just amazed each week at how SDI deals with UFOs
without adding fuel to the fire that debunkers and skeptics keep
alight under the UFO subject and its researchers.)

Something the last caller said and one of Errol's guest talked
about and touched on what I have been researching for over the
last few years, which had me wanting to write/talk about. I
always get into big trouble for touching on this side of the ET
subject, which I guess could mean I very close to the truth or
the e-mails are right and I am just a nut case. Either way I
think it is important to have it on record for those researching
in the future.

The question of extended life or eternal life isn't a question
we alone have asked or thought about, it would be sheer
ignorance to think we alone have thought or addressed this
notion. This notion of eternal life is what lead to the Aliens
known as the Greys into living in space or so is what my
research findings indicated or should I say that is what my
findings lead me to believe.

They found life on a planet as being somewhat "short lived" and
wanted more and they found a way to do. They found one could
only live for so long in the environment we live in and planets
were also at the mercy of things like comets asteroids, ECT
which also lead to shortening ones life even if you moved into
an environment that would extend their life on a planet. By this
I mean moving into an environmental controlled environment which
is free of bugs, viruses, ECT ECT

So life in space on a large ship has its up side, but it has a
down side as well, which is what I am addressing/investigating
now days. Beside, why else would any race want to live in space?

Because it is a very dangerous way to live unless you sort out
quite a few problems first, which ok they seem to have sorted
out to a certain degree, as I know they haven't sorted out all
the problems, which brings me to the question of resource needed
to keep such an outfit up and running in space, which means they
still have a dependence on a terrestrial planet. I'm starting to
believe there is no way of being totally independent of a
terrestrial planet for organic life forms. Even with these
vessels which have been reported as being 120 miles across and
the really big one that is said to be 1500 miles across, even if
these ships did have lakes, gardens, forest ect in them, it all
still had to come from a planet like this one and if you know
anything about that little experiment some years back were
scientist built an enclosed environment to see how long people
could live in it. I forget now the name of the project, but it
failed because trees are not the sole source of oxygen on Earth.
So an enclosed vessel in space isn't going to fair much better,
now is it? So this means visits to planets like ours from time
to time is a must to them.

So our little Grey friends took the question of life and learnt
how to mess around with it, I say mess as they are still to
master life the Universe and everything in it as good or as well
as the original creators have done.

I guess if any of what I have found is true, it would explain
why these Aliens aren't to keen on making themselves known to
us, plus were is some things I feel are to gross to talk about
here which deal with their genetic experiments and the type of
fuels they use, but would also be other reasons why they are not
to keen on letting us Humans in on there little secrets. I think
if all of Human kind did know just what they are up too, it
would mean War and the Greys would have one hell of a fight on
their hands. So the less we know the safer they are.

Who was it that said " The less the public knows, the easier it
is to control them?"

Well as those reading this might have gathered, I have this real
bug about just were these damn Aliens are getting all the
resources from to continue their existence in space. Goodness
only knows, between them and us using resources on this planet
like it's even ending, something has to give at some point which
has me a little concerned. I know I am painting a picture of
doom and gloom, but this could be just the angle needed to force
governments and even the UN to address this subject with greater
respect and make those in the know, come clean with what they
know about all of this.

We have only one planet to live on with no others close by to
move too if things go wrong and that fact alone could be enough
to shake up a few people in office/ high places to really start
addressing this subject or at least start asking the question of
are there ET's visiting our planet and if so WHY?


Cheers

Chris (Tophar)







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             UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?]

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 19:16:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:50:57 -0400
Subject: UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?]


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:37:53 -0300
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

Evening Stan, all

 >>I agree. I have been _doing_ UFO research for over fifteen
 >>years, and it was only a few years ago I saw my first UFO. My
 >>reasoning for the _delay_ wasn't for lack of looking, but
 >>through my experience, I could identify pretty much most things
 >>in the sky. One must remember something like 95 - 97% of
 >>reported UFOs can be explained with sufficient research.

 >Let's see now, Blue Book Special Report 14 had 20% UNKNOWNS, The
 >University of Colorado Study had 30% UNKNOWNS. In Dick Hall's
 >'UFO Evidence 1' it was 16%... so what is the basis for 95-97%
 >explainable - (3-5% Unknown)???

 >Stan Friedman

I believe we have had this discussion before.

There are multiple figures bandied about for genuine UFOs. I
think if you told most sceptical people that 20% of all UFOs
are truly unidentified, they might find that incredulous, and as
for 30%!

 From my own personal experience I have found around 90% can be
explained with sufficient research. I know of people with both
higher and lower figures, and very different standards of
research. So I figure the quality of the research carried out
dramatically affects the quantity of trufo's (to use Bruce's
term).

I have found that with Joe Q Public, and with skeptics of you
use the figure of 95 - 97% of UFOs can be explained, you will
get no argument from them, and _also_ you kinda get more respect
as an honest researcher. I guess this is because I do not come
across as a "believer", nor a sKeptic, but an honest to goodness
researcher.

For my guess 20 - 30% of reports being genuine UFOs feels way
too high, and 3 - 5% way too low, ten percent _feels_right_ as
far as I am concerned IMHO.

Without wanting to get into a long drawn out statistical
argument (and I know maths well!) you can use statistics, and
various reports to prove those statistics, to prove whatever
figures you want to, but it is a matter of perception.

I'll explain.

If you was to tell Joe Q Public that 30% of UFO reports are
genuine and they will probably laugh at you. Tell them 95% and
you get a completely different reaction. That is why I use 95 -
97% of UFO's can be explained, it gets public acceptance of a
very difficult subject to get accepted. And the added bonus that
sKeptics don't rant at you as a believer. <g>

Just my tuppence worth.


--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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             Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:24:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:55:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Maccabee


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:56:19 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?


 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 19:07:08 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >First, thank you. I appreciate your taking the time to address
 >some of my questions. These are important issues that rarely
 >get the attention they deserve.

 >I asked:

 >>>Question: Are you saying that people shouldn't even bother to
 >>>photograph or videotape a sighting  it won't prove or
 >>>mean anything to anybody? If so, my next stop is e-bay!

 >You responded:

 >>No, I'm not saying people shouldn't record. What I am saying is
 >>that people shouldn't assume that,  they have a picture
 >>or video that the sighting will be accepted as real  of
 >>the picture or video.

.I can't speak for anybody else but I never make any such
 >'assumptions.'

 >When I 'shoot' a sighting it is only to photographically record,
 >corroborate, and document the event. With pictures or a video I
 >can at least offer to substantiate my report and show that
'>something' was in the sky; and (hopefully) whether or not it
 >was anything out of the ordinary. If the photos are good enough,
 >clear and detailed enough, so that a determination can be made
 >as to whether the recorded object is 'out of the ordinary' (or
 >not,) I cannot understand why the photo does not become
 >acceptable corroboration for the sighting report. There seems to
 >be a big problem with that.

 >It would be so in a criminal case. The _only_ difference here
 >is, we're talking about *UFOs. (*The grand-daddy of all 'hot-
 >button' topics.) There is no other reason why UFO photos should
 >be treated any differently than photos presented in evidence, or
 >as corroboration in a legal or criminal court proceeding. When
 >photos are submitted in a court of law they are submitted as
'>evidence.' What is it that makes UFO photos that accompany
s>ighting reports different? Other than maybe prejudice or bias.

The problem with UFOs is that they are "impossible" as compared
to a crime, which is definitely possible. For comparison,
consider an "impossible" crime. Suppose A accused B of making C
invisible (C is definitely not around any more) and furthermore
A had a video of B making C invisible, whatever that might mean
(e.g., A claims B made C go into a 5th dimension or whatever),
the video would be thrown out (unacceptable in court) as being
physically impossible (just bring in a physicist to testify as
an expert witness for the prosecution) and so would not
contribute to the case. More likely they would argue that C's
body was made to vanish from the world by some other means or
that C was not really dead but hiding somewhere.

As I said before, the photo/video is an aid to the witness'
recollection. Another respondent (don't recall who) also
correctly pointed out that a photo/video can demonstrate that
whatever was seen was not like known objects/phenomena in some
way. In other words, the video/ photo can be considered evidence
of what the object was not. A single photo of a dot of light in
the sky is not very yseful in that regard. However, a daytime
video of a structured object doing "impossible" things can be
considered evidence that the witness did not misidentify a bird,
a plane or Superman. Hence from that point of view, clear
pictures have a value, even though the skeptics may argue
otherwise. Remember, a skeptic/debunker will always argue
misidentification or fake, anyway. A recent photo from Lawton OK
at my web site is a single photo, digital, of what the witness
claimed was a triangle accompanied by a red "thing." Well, the
photo shows only lights and a lighted object surface. From the
photo we can't say for sure what the object(s) was (were) but we
can say it(they) were not a bird, a plane, or.... you know who
(not even Spiderman). Does that photo prove UFOs are real?

Now we get to the bottom line.... or at least a bottom line.
Information is only valuable if you do something with it.
Ignoring it is, of course, an option. But if you are given
information that points toward UFO reality and that causes you
to look further, become an investigator, analyze sightings, do
something positive, then the information has done its thing. The
first of your UFO sightings provided information to you that you
acted on rather than ignoring it. Now you have gathered even
more information. You can't force other human beings to react to
the information in the same way.

Skeptics are reacting to information they were told, that UFOs
aren't real. They haven't learned to... ahem (borrowing from my
Abduction book)... to Question Everything!!

No, their minds are made up. They KNOW what is and isn't... and
since UFOs aren't, any report/photo/video of same is an accident
or a fake.. QED, no investigation necessary.

Onloy continued beating at the wall of entranched "common sense"
and skepticism/debunkery can create a breach in the wall/. So
keep beating! Keep taking pictures. Who knows, maybe someday THE
photo/video/whatever will appear. (And then the gov't will say,
well, we knoew it all along!)


 >When Tom King responding to my post he called it evidence of a,
 >"double standard." He's right. It's true. UFO photos or footage
i>s segregated from the rest of the genre and approached with an
 >entirely different attitude and set of standards than any other
 >photo artifacts. Maybe rightfully so. But they are _never_
 >accepted as corroboration or evidence even after passing the
 >most rigorous tests that people can invent. Not so for photos
 >that are admitted as evidence in legal cases.

In the case of UFOs and other impossible things, the witness is
GUILTY until proven innocent. That is another thing I learned
over the years. Then, without (I hope) getting a swelled head, I
realized that I was acting as a defense for the witness in the
face of prosecution by the know-it-all skeptics and scientists.
I realized this when I was working on the Trent case. They were
accused of faking the photos. How could I defend against that
accusation? Furthermore, the world approached their case as if
it was a proven crime against humanity.... taking an impossible
photo and claiming it was real. I spent hundreds of hours
studying their photos looking for conclusive proof of a fake.
Couldn't find any. However, that didn't mean that they couldn't
have been faked by someone with sufficient knowledge, time,
effort, money, desire, etc.. By studying the TRENTS (not their
photos) I concluded that it was unlikely or perhaps even
impossible that they would even think of such a thing, to say
nothing of carrying it off smoothly over a period of about 50
years (they died several years ago). Hence I would argue for the
Trents, Not Guilty.

 >The bottom line is; that unless one of us can manage to break
 >off a piece of one of these things, or capture an alien,
 >nothing, not even the aforementioned, is ever going to be
 >'enough.'

Yes, but if you break off a piece you better hope that it is
made of "unknownium" or has definite evidence of being not-of-
this earth and also not just a piece of a meteorite, etc.
Otherwise, if it COULD be explained as a "known" then it will be
so explained. (Dr. David Pritchard found this out when he
analyzed a certain implant and found it made of carbon, oxygen,
etc.... normal stuff.)

 >A case in point is your next comment:

 >>Having had plenty of experience with the
 >>skeptics I know that they will pick the visual case and its
 >>context apart and then try to argue that the photo is an
 >>accident of photography (photo flaw) or else a hoax. In order to
 >>make this argument stick they often have to separate the two:
 >>visual case and its context are split off from the photo/video/
 >>The photo/video is then analyzed separately.

 >That doesn't make any sense Bruce. If you can see what's wrong
 >with that approach then others can too. Why are they 'permitted'
 >to get away with making that kind of a surgical/artificial
 >separation of the 'visual case' from its 'context?' (as you put
 >it) It isn't done at any other time. (ie; news photos/footage,
 >photographic material that is admitted as 'evidence' in legal
 >proceedings etc.)

They are "permitted" to get away with that  "common sense" says
there are no UFOs, so anything you do to a UFO case to explain
it is "OK" I [presented a paper at the MUFON symp several years
ago entitled Prosaic Explanations, the Failure of UFO
Skepticism. which addresses this directly. It is now on my web
site (click on PAPERS and scroll down). Not just photographic
cases. Consider the Japan Airlines case of 1986 (JAL 1628). The
witnesses gave excellent descriptions of what they saw. The FAA
investigated unexplained radar targets had appeared near the
plane while the "objects" were nearby. In issuing its final
report the FAA stated that radar did not confirm the presence of
"UFOs" the anomalous radar targets could be exsplained as errors
of the radar (note: the radar operator disputed this... but so
what, he's only a lowly peon, right?). Note that the FAA final
report did not even refer to the viusual sighting (or the
air[plane radar sighting). This sighitng is the one deescribed
by one of Greer's best witnesses John Callahan, who was aware of
the details of the FAA investigation.

 >If they are isolating the components solely for the purpose of
 >artificially strengthening and justifying 'their own theories,'
 >then that is a practice which should be exposed and loudly
 >protested.

Sure. Make them read my Prosaic paper.

 >In legal/criminal cases, and even the news media,>
 >photographic evidence is always considered within 'context.'
 >Otherwise they have no bearing on the case. It is this
'>negative' loophole that is being used by 'skeptics.' And they
a>re being allowed to get away with it by the larger community.

Yup.

 >All  they have pulled a 'Houdini' and distracted the
 >viewers attention while they are busy renaming an expression of
 >'bias' to pass as acceptable scientific theory and methodology.

 >Apparently _nobody_ is calling them on it. You make it sound as
 >if it is an accepted/acceptable practice. (To separate the photo
 >material from the context in which it was recorded.) To me it
 >all sounds very counterproductive, not 'scientific' and just
 >plain wrong. Very wrong.

Yup. I've tried to call them on it.

 >It only serves as a means for sceptics to 'castrate in the
 >cradle' any UFO cases/reports that are accompanied by
 >photographic material. Since when is that kind of thing
 >'acceptable?' Why is everybody apparently just 'laying down' and
 >taking it? Because we don't have a piece of a UFO? Nonsense.

 >>If it can be shown to have no positive proof that it is real,
 >>then it can't be used to support the visual sighting.

As I said, it is an "aid" to the witness' recollection or, as
another person put it, it can show what the object was not.

<snip>

 >>Consider McMinnville combined with the claim that 'any' picture
 >>could be hoaxed, given enough desire, time, effort, and skill.
 >>Take the photos by themselves and... well, it could have been
 >>hoaxed and, since UFOs don't exist, it was hoaxed. This totally
 >>ignores the context of the sighting which includes the Trent's
 >>own...um... shall we say, lack of skills (in almost anything
 >>technical) and experience plus the fact that there is no
 >>>of having enough motivation to carry it out.

 >>So, in the Trent case, the reality of the sighting is based on
 >>the Trent's them selves and the photo is an aid to their
 >>recollection.

 >>Extrapolate from this case to others, with variations of course.

 >Another case where a genuinely newsworthy event remains
 >gathering dust on the shelf  no one has posted a
 >successful challenge to an approach and methodology that is
 >biased in favor of the 'sceptics.' As opposed to the 'evidence.'
 >A truly scientific approach and methodology would not be
 >weighted in any direction. Whether for or against. Once
 >neutrality or objectivity is compromised it colors any
 >subsequent findings/results.

Worse yet, the Trent case was analyzed by Hartmann of the Condon
Study in 1968 and he wrote in the final report that it seemed to
him to be a verified event, an "extraordinary flying object."
But the newsmedia didn't even pick up on that at the time  his
report was well hidden in the report and "covered up" by
obfuscation by Dr. Condon, the director of the study.

 >The rest of us can't find any truth  it is being held
 >hostage by 'unscientific' scientists. Unbelievable. It's sad,
 >the more I learn the less hopeful I become for a 'fair' hearing
 >and for an honest (reliable) outcome of all the research being
 >done or proposed.

 >To put a reverse spin on the ball; sounds to me like the inmates
 >are running the asylum in the scientific community. And we just
 >sit back and let it happen without a peep of protest.

peep
peep , peep.
peep PEEP, peek.......

SQUAWK SQUAWK!!!


 >>I'm not saying that  some are known to be hoaxed, all are
 >>hoaxed. What I am saying it that any photo/video/ could be
 >>hoaxed... given enough time, money, desire, capability,
 >>equipment, etc. Whether or not it was hoaxed can only be
 >>determined from the contexstual evidence... such as under the
 >>circumstances of the sighting, could it have been hoaxed? Or, is
 >>the necessary technique _definitely_ beyond the capability, etc.
 >>of the witness(es). What about a multiple witness case? Jan 8,
 >>1990 in Gulf Breeze, multiple witnesses and multiple photos.
 >>Funny, the skeptics have stayed away from this one... I wonder
 >>why?

.>>See: http://brumac.8k.com.

 >Yeah, I wonder why too! :)

Answer:  this is on the hairy edge of being too difficult
to explain (requires multiple person collusion, etc.)







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 19

             Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:24:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 22:57:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Maccabee


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:27:05 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 00:17:14 +1000
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

Dave Acres wrote:

 >>I think they have to be considered supporting evidence.
 >>Providing tampering is ruled out, video could certainly assist
 >>in proving what an object COULDN'T be. ie, if something is
 >>estimated by a Scientist to be travelling at say, 7000 metres
 >>per second!!! Well, that surely has to rule out birds, aircraft
 >>etc.

Yes, an aid to the witness to prove that he didn't just have a
"hallucination" or wasn't able to recognize some ordinary object
in the atmosphere.

The "Martin Allen": video from Gulf Breeze shows a shiny object
hovering with a glint from the sun. Then "they" put the pedal to
the metal. In five video frames it went from the center of the
picture to the edge. Now that's what I call Acceleration.... in
fact, I wrote a whole MUFON Symp paper about this (and other )
acceleration videos. Without these videos we wouldn't have
quantitative knowledge of the acceleration capabilities. You can
find a link to this paper at my web site:

http://brumac.8k.com

click on other papers

 >Aircraft and balloons yes, birds no. According to 'some,'
 >_Pelicans_ are capable of some pretty astounding aerobatic
 >feats! :)

Drat! Pelicans, again!!!

 >>7000 metres per second was calculated by this UFO observed at
 >>the WTC on 24th July 2001. It's probably old news but I only
 >>recently found it. And only manged to view it tonight.

 >>http://www.cowan70.freeserve.co.uk/alien_ufo/new_york_ufo.html

 >>It's in MOV format so you may need Apple's Quicktime. A Japanese
 >>person has done some analysis on it here:

 >>http://www.ufoseek.org/japanesepage.htm

 >>Someone said it's obviously a fake, but it looks pretty genuine
 >>to my untrained eye! In fact, I'd say it's the best footage I've
 >>ever seen! Maybe someone here can offer their opinion?

 >Nice catch Dave! You saved yourself by using the qualifier
 >"untrained" when talking about your take on this piece of video.
 >Yes, it was found to have been faked. The UFO overlaps the edge
 >of the building it is supposed to be behind! Not certain if it
 >was Bruce Maccabee or Jeff Saino that busted that one. If I had
 >to guess, I 'think' it was Jeff.

It was Jeff.

But this video started off as being highly questionable: the
ostensible witness who provided it, the girl in the video,
claimed that she didn't want her name used because she didn't
want her boyfriend to know that she had taken this helicopter
tour of NYC with (gulp) Another Guy.

<LOL> They must think we are dopes. All you need is a little
stop frame capability and you can see her face clearly!!! Oh,
well, another romance shot in the foot.

Incidently, the Sci Fi channel never provided any useful info on
how they happened to get that video and it was strongly hinted
to Bob Kiviat (of Alien Autopsy fame) when I asked him to check,
that this was a "created" video at the time Sci Fi was promoting
its phrase "Sci Fi Happens".

Yeah... fiction can happen anytime!







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   May > May 20

                          UFO*BC Updates - 05-19-02

From: Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <dave@ufobc.ca>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 11:30:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 08:56:49 -0400
Subject: UFO*BC Updates - 05-19-02


UFO*BC Website Updates - May 19, 2002

1) http://www.ufobc.ca/Sightings/recent.htm

- Recently Reported BC Sightings
- It was a slow month for UFO*BC but we borrowed BC sightings
   from Brian Vike in Houston and Peter Davenport in Seattle.


2) http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition/

- The directors of UFO*BC encourage you to follow this link to a
petition that will be submitted to the Secretary Treasurer of
the United Nations and all member nations. The petition
encourages the United Nations and member nations to work toward
disclosing UFO related information, encouraging scientific
research and establish procedures to encourage reporting of UFO
sightings.


3) http://www.ufobc.ca/Supernatural/Bigfoot/nowatschka.htm

- "My thoughts, experiences and research of the Sasquatch"

- By Robin Nowatschka. The title tells it all. Very interesting.


4) http://www.ufobc.ca/Fern/stvincentmute2001.htm

- Another one of Fern Belzil's mutilation reports.


5) http://www.ufobc.ca/Events/events.htm

- "Northwest UFO Paranormal Conference"

- Seattle, Washington. Friday, May 24 - Monday, May 27


6) http://www.ufobc.ca/Store/spring2002.htm

- Latest UFO*BC Publication - Spring 2002 (Vol7, No2)

- A yearly subscription makes a great gift for the UFO buff!

7) http://www.ufobc.ca/Experiencer/whogoesthere.htm

- Another experiencer tells her tale. This is just one story
   out of hundreds that we receive.

************************************************************

Dave Pengilly, UFO*BC - dave@ufobc.ca







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   May > May 20

                 Re: 'Insiders From NASA Speculate' - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 02:17:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:20:06 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Insiders From NASA Speculate' - Gates


 >From: Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@netexpress.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.netDate: Sat, 18 May 2002 14:35:05 -0500
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 14:35:05 -0500
 >Subject: 'Insiders From NASA Speculate'

 >I just received this today, the talk has been so serious lately
 >I thought you might enjoy some satire.

 >Jerry

 >-----


 >From: American Patriot Friends Network <APFN@apfn.org>
 >To: APFN Yahoogroups <apfn@yahoogroups.com>, APFN SMARTGROUP
 ><apfn@smartgroups.com>
 >Subject: Insiders from NASA speculate.....
 >Date: Sat, May 18, 2002, 11:29 AM


 >More Latest Info from Mark Hazelwood 020102

Kind of reminds me of the militia guys going nutty in the
mid to late 90s with the latest from "Mark from Michigan"
He was unloading tales of black Helos, new world order
coming to take us away by 1999 and a host of other things
that did not happen.

Now (that it turned out to be bogus theories and data) you are
likely not to find anybody who claims that they heard of him or
claim that they believed him at the time.

 >http://survivalcenter.com/LatestMarkH020102.html

 >http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=26876

 >Insiders from NASA speculate 2/3 of the population of the planet
 >will perish during the coming pole-shift caused by the passage
 >of Planet X in 2003. Another 2/3 of those that survive initially
 >will pass away to starvation and exposure to the elements within
 >6 months. Every secretive gov't agency in the USA is fully aware
 >of what is expected in 2003 and are readying themselves. The
 >Vatican is fully abreast of what is expected. The public is not
 >being warned and given their chance to prepare.

Fortunatly or unfortunatly (depends on your beliefs) I
remembered Lee Shargel and his tales (that people gulliably
believed) about how ET radio waves were going to bathe the
planet and how a new day would begin for humanity on January
27th 1997, not to mention many other tales and stories from so
called "space scientists" that never happened. That never
stopped gulliable people who refused to get off their butt and
actually first hand investigate the claims to believe everything
being said. By investigate I don't mean to log on to some
Internet web site such as Marks, read everything buy into it
hook, line and sinker and pronounce it to be truth, never to be
doubted. Thats what the fools did with Mark from Michigan,
except they ran out and bought the video tape, looked at it,
said something like that sounds good, fits my beliefs or
whatever and bought into it.

 >The volume of leaks from insiders, observatories, and the
 >Vatican is going to burst the dam of this disclosure wide open.

The only steady so called leak appears to be news updates from
Mark promoting his theories and book.

 >The most important story on earth in over 3000 years is fast
 >breaking loose from being held back by the controllers of the
 >financial markets and major media for fear of panic and
 >financial collapse. The public can be given a chance to prepare

Argentina has collapsed financially and it isn't the end-of-the-
world.

 >by being informed. Our planet is about to go through massive
 >regular earthchanges once again in the Spring of 2003 as a
 >result of the passage of our 10th planet through our immediate
 >solar system. Planet X orbits between our sun and its dark twin.
 >A diagram from the 1987 NEW SCIENCE & INVENTION ENCYCLOPEDIA
 >shows our dead twin sun & the 10th planet. (see diagram here):

 >http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tworx372.htm

I would consider any such information to be about as reliable as
I heard it on "the radio" or some alleged, top-notich, top-
drawer, never-told-a-lie-in-their-life intelligence community
source said..."

Remember the leakers/intelligence community sources who were
claiming that ET was going to land on some mountain top in
Arizona in December of 2000? Never happened, but the folks
believed the story...until it was obviously untrue, then they
focus on the next tale/story being told around and don't want to
talk about the old one they were believing and promoting.

 >Zecharia Sitchin, the world renowned scholar, author of "The
 >12th Planet" and archeologist, does indicate on occasion his
 >knowledge of the return of Nibiru AT THIS TIME!" To be too
 >public about it would prove dangerous because of his weight in
 >the scientific community.

In a release awhile back on Sitchin's site he doesn't buy into
the the spring 2003 doom and gloom theories but apparently
thinks Nibiru is going to come back sometime...in the next
thousand(s) of years.

 >A group of scientists in Russia in year 2000 held several
 >meetings to discuss the inbound planet discovered from one of
 >their largest observatories. A 66 year old professor and
 >physicist let it be known he attended this meeting. This led to
 >the infamous "2003 Problem" Reuters news service wire on
 >Sept.13th 2000. Top Russian government officials called for a
 >commission to study the problem which was said to expect to
 >cause "a string of calamities and a massive population
 >shrinkage." They openly wondered whether Russia would still even

Partial truth, partial fiction. "string of calamities" was
correct. The "massive population shrinkage" is apparently
fiction being attributed to some opposition unity leader. While
people claim to have the quote he gave, nobody can come find an
actual Russian news site, say Tass or whatever with this quote
on it. If anybody out their actually has the original Russian
web site with this quote in it (not all the ones out there by
the supporters and promoters of 2003 disaster) I am
listening...and listening and listening. I suspect that nobody
will every come forth with an independent location of the source
and we will be expected to just believe what the 2003 theorists
are unloading.

Naturally all the people supporting and promoting this tale add
it in. Then when you bring forth the evidence, they rationalize
and explain it all away by claiming a "sanitized article was
released the next day..."

What this article refers to was a string of financial related
disasters that might be hitting Russia in 2003, i.e. "when three
problems -- a big debt bill, eroding infrastructure and an
ageing population -- could combine to throw Russia into
turmoil."

<snip>

 >Private contact made by a wealthy business man in Germany to a
 >large observatory in St. Petersburg, Russia yielded significant
 >information. The man in charge of finding new planets there
 >admitted they've been watching Planet X for 3 years and are
 >worried about the substantial damage it will do to Earth during
 >its passage. The name they gave for Planet X was "Raja Sun" or
 >"Great Star."

Never mind the fact that this is a secret that could not be kept
with the number of amateur astronomers observing the sky.

 >I recently received a call from Canada. Roy was thanking me for
 >having received my book. His first call to a local observatory
 >yielded the following results. An intern to the astronomers
 >answered. Roy asked if she had heard of Planet X. She said
 >"yes," but told him "she wasn't supposed to talk about it & the
 >scientists were in disagreement as to whether it would cause
 >substantial damage when it passed." Roy then asked one of the
 >astronomers employed there with her. The astronomer said that
 >they don't look at objects such as that.

Do you ever notice that you never hear about these tales and
stories in the first person. You always hear that "somebody
said..."

Most of the time when you actually investigate these stories and
speak to the people named (that are telling the story around in
first person) you find out when you talk to them that they
actually did not know anything in the first person, but actually
heard it from somebody else (brother, aunt, cousin, radio show)
whom they consider to be totally reliable so they instantly
repeat it in the first person.

 >Insiders in NASA & the military privately confirm that many of
 >them are quietly contracting out the building of dome-homes
 >(strongest structure known to man) in the upper USA (one of the
 >safest areas). These domes should withstand the hurricane force
 >winds and world wide earthquakes expected at the time. If these
 >domes are built in the rolling hills or foothills, well away
 >from the shorelines, major population centers, and flat plains
 >(that are expected to flood with the constant rain and melting
 >poles), the chances of survival are as good as you can get.


Reminds me of all the Y2K doom and gloomists who were building
housing communitys out in the middle of nowhere to escape the
pending Y2K disaster...that never happened. One of the bigger
Y2K disaster promoters was Gary North who seriously believed in
what he said and moved to New Mexico to escape the disaster.

 >There are a wide variety of alternatives to dome housing.
 >Some are very inexpensive:

I talked to some builders of dome structures. They say very
little of their work is in the US; most of it is over seas and
has to do with farming and other. As to the other, they
apparently believe it is all crap being spread by unscrupulous
people.

<snip>

 >As of late there's been a rash of observatories that have closed
 >their doors for various reasons. Many will simply not point
 >their equipment for anyone in the direction of the Orion
 >constellation if they do remain open. Some will give an excuse
 >that there is some sort of obstruction in the way or equipment
 >failure. All at once, renovations are their favorite excuse.
 >Griffith Observatory is the latest of a handful of the nation's
 >oldest planetariums to undergo major renovations in recent
 >years. Others include the Adler Planetarium & Astronomy Museum
 >in Chicago and the Hayden Planetarium at the Rose Center for
 >Earth and Space in New York. Coincidental or not, there are
 >other observatories in various countries doing the same thing at
 >this time.

Naturally with this giant tale being wagged out, if an
observatory closed its toliet, it would be somehow, someway be
considered part of the bigger conspiracy..blah blah blah.

The truth, according to astronomers actually is that observation
time is a limited, scheduled commodity in which people get in
line for lengthy periods of time to get the chance to conduct
there astronomical research projects and what not. Needless to
say every time some fool races in and demands to look at Orion
or whatever, they yawn and kiss him/her off. Naturally the fool
then immediately suspects some kind of evil conspiracy and the
circle goes on.

Even if a group of people got the chance to look and the
information turned out to be bogus, the planet X believers would
rationalize and explain it all away and we would hear tales and
stories about how the data was doctored, how the people weren't
actually looking at the right portion of the sky and so on.

One would hope that by the time July 2003 comes around some of
the gulliable believers and Mark himself would state something
like "Well, we were full of crap, the data did not actually work
out and now that the time has passed we realize that this false
and misleading information.."

What I suspect we will hear is something like "Well the May-June
2003 was only one of many other windows" of when this could have
happened and we were not promoting disaster in 2003, we were
only suggesting the possibility that it could happen...." and so
on and so on.

As to Mark he will either have to go along with this line of
reasoning and or become another Gary North...a person absolutely
nobody refers to or talks about any more in terms of Y2K, end-
of-the-world predictions, disasters and so on. For those
interested supposedly Gary North has gotten out of the disaster
business and is now allegedly selling email marketing services.

Now if folks want to discuss something in the same league of
reliability, at your local book store their is a book called
Nostradamus 2002, in which the author predicts that World War 3
will begin shortly after the KING will come to power on June 21
2002.

Breathlessly I await either the spring of 2003 and or June 21
2002. Either way they will both turn out to be more tales on the
end-of-the-world failed prediction scrap heap.

Cheers,

Robert







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 20

              Re: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:01:11 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:21:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory - Friedman


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 23:38:17 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory

 >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:55:38 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
 >>Subject: Canada's Flying Saucer Observatory

 >>I have plans to return to Ottawa soon to do follow up checks on
 >>some of these other individuals that were also involved, along
 >>with Smith, in Canada's flying saucer research projects. I would
 >>appreciate it a lot if anyone can provide me with additional
 >>information or new leads about these UFO projects and I will
 >>share whatever I find in future posts to UFO UpDates, including
 >>more about the two pre-Sputnik satellites.

 >Thanks for mentioning your research of the Canadian 'X' files.
 >We look forward to learning more about what really happened with
 >Smith et al back in those early, formative days of ufology.

The University of Ottawa Library Archives has a lot of Smith's
papers included with their Arthur Bray collection. Arthur had
been given them by Smith's son. Good idea to call the Archives
first before visiting. They were quite cooperative when I was
there. Has his memo about Sarbacher, etc.


Stan Friedman







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                          Re: UFO Stats - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:36:31 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:26:43 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Friedman


 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 19:16:51 +0100
 >Subject: UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?]

 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:37:53 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >Evening Stan, all

 >>>I agree. I have been _doing_ UFO research for over fifteen
 >>>years, and it was only a few years ago I saw my first UFO. My
 >>>reasoning for the _delay_ wasn't for lack of looking, but
 >>>through my experience, I could identify pretty much most things
 >>>in the sky. One must remember something like 95 - 97% of
 >>>reported UFOs can be explained with sufficient research.

 >>Let's see now, Blue Book Special Report 14 had 20% UNKNOWNS, The
 >>University of Colorado Study had 30% UNKNOWNS. In Dick Hall's
 >>'UFO Evidence 1' it was 16%... so what is the basis for 95-97%
 >>explainable - (3-5% Unknown)???

 >>Stan Friedman

 >I believe we have had this discussion before.

 >There are multiple figures bandied about for genuine UFOs. I
 >think if you told most sceptical people that 20% of all UFOs
 >are truly unidentified, they might find that incredulous, and as
 >for 30%!

 >From my own personal experience I have found around 90% can be
 >explained with sufficient research. I know of people with both
 >higher and lower figures, and very different standards of
 >research. So I figure the quality of the research carried out
 >dramatically affects the quantity of trufo's (to use Bruce's
 >term).

 >I have found that with Joe Q Public, and with skeptics of you
 >use the figure of 95 - 97% of UFOs can be explained, you will
 >get no argument from them, and _also_ you kinda get more respect
 >as an honest researcher. I guess this is because I do not come
 >across as a "believer", nor a sKeptic, but an honest to goodness
 >researcher.

 >For my guess 20 - 30% of reports being genuine UFOs feels way
 >too high, and 3 - 5% way too low, ten percent _feels_right_ as
 >far as I am concerned IMHO.

 >Without wanting to get into a long drawn out statistical
 >argument (and I know maths well!) you can use statistics, and
 >various reports to prove those statistics, to prove whatever
 >figures you want to, but it is a matter of perception.

 >I'll explain.

 >If you was to tell Joe Q Public that 30% of UFO reports are
 >genuine and they will probably laugh at you. Tell them 95% and
 >you get a completely different reaction. That is why I use 95 -
 >97% of UFO's can be explained, it gets public acceptance of a
 >very difficult subject to get accepted. And the added bonus that
 >sKeptics don't rant at you as a believer. <g>

 >Just my tuppence worth.

I simply don't understand how you have come to the conclusion as
to what the public will accept. I have given over 700 lectures
in 15 countries. In the great majority, I have presented tabular
data from BB Special Report 14 in contrast to the Secretary of
the Air Force's false claim that even the UNKNOWN 3% could have
been explained if more complete observational data had been
available. I discuss the findingsof the AIAA UFO subcommittee
that 30% of the 117 cases investigated by the U. of Colorado
could not be identified. I note that 746 of the 4500 cases noted
in 'The UFO Evidence'" could not be unidentified. I also note
that, of course, there was a separate Category Insufficient
Information in BBSR 14.

I come on very strong, document what I say, and have an open Q
and A session after each talk. I have had all of 11 hecklers two
of whom were drunk. Some audiences were as big as 2,000.

Why in the world should I, or any ufologist, soft soap the
truth? I think it is not appropriate to be an apologist
ufologist, so long as one can back up the claims that are made.
The same goes for comments that most people don't believe in
UFOs or that scientists don't see them. One of the reasons the
media has the wrong impressions is that we ufologists have let
the skeptics get away with so many false claims. Carl Sagan got
away with saying, falsely, that there are no reliable sightings
that are interesting..... Balderdash should be called balderdash

I will take BBSR 14 and the Condon report and Dick Hall's work
over Allen Hendry's, any time.

I don't tell John Q. Public 30% of sightings are UNKNOWNS, I say
that according to the AIAA subcommittee 30% of Condon's cases
turned out to be UNKNOWNS - and no UFO "Buffs" on the committee.
BMI's people found that 35% of the highest quality reports could
not be explained. These are _facts_ not opinions. The truth shall
set you free, somebody said.

I have done hundreds of hours of radio and TV programs. No eggs
or tomatoes at the lectures or razzberries on the air. If one
can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen, said Harry
Truman.....


Stan Friedman







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                Re: UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 05:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:29:57 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad


 >From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:40:38 +0200
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:37:53 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >>>>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >><snip>

 >>Let's see now, Blue Book Special Report 14 had 20% UNKNOWNS, The
 >>University of Colorado Study had 30% UNKNOWNS. In Dick Hall's
 >>'UFO Evidence 1' it was 16%... so what is the basis for 95-97%
 >>explainable - (3-5% Unknown)???

 >Hi Stan,

 >In 'The UFO Handbook', p. 22, Allan Hendry found on 1,307 cases:
 >88.6% IFOs (1,158), 8.6% UFOs (113) and 2.8% exceptions (36).

It is my feeling that none of these statistics are very reliable
as the cases examined may differ from report to report as will
the depth of analysis, and possibly the criteria for
categorizing an unknown. The range from 8.6% to 30% classified
as unknown or UFO may just give us a general indication. In
sighting numbers, this is still a high figure.

Also of interest is would be some indication of what percentage
of cases are reported. I believe that Stan asked audiences how
many had seen a UFO having them raise hands, then followed this
with how many had reported their sighting with a much lesser
number of hands raised.

- Bill Hamilton







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                           Re: UFO Stats - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 9:50:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:38:36 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Aldrich


 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 19:16:51 +0100
 >Subject: UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?]

 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:37:53 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?


Hi, UFO Statistic Debunker here again. If we can't get even
basic information correct about UFOs, how can we expect to be
taken seriously? Nearly every UFO statistic is bull butter. That
is MOD stats, USAF stats, UFO group stats, almost without
exception statistics or statistical analyses are constantly
misapplied, or more grievous, fudged.

 >Evening Stan, all

 >>>I agree. I have been _doing_ UFO research for over fifteen
 >>>years, and it was only a few years ago I saw my first UFO. My
 >>>reasoning for the _delay_ wasn't for lack of looking, but
 >>>through my experience, I could identify pretty much most things
 >>>in the sky. One must remember something like 95 - 97% of
 >>>reported UFOs can be explained with sufficient research.

Conventional wisdom or speaking in short hand I don't know which
but this 95-97% explained thing is so much hog wash. If you
think not, prove it! And for about the 500th time, "insufficient
information" is not an explanation. Paul Norman may be the only
ufologist on the planet to get it right. He said in an interview
we can quickly weed out the 95% or more of the reports which are
explainable, don't have enough information or are not sufficient
unusual to warren additional investigation. Then, we can
concentrate on those which might have interesting information.
Agreed!

 >>Let's see now, Blue Book Special Report 14 had 20% UNKNOWNS, The
 >>University of Colorado Study had 30% UNKNOWNS. In Dick Hall's
 >>'UFO Evidence 1' it was 16%... so what is the basis for 95-97%
 >>explainable - (3-5% Unknown)???

Yes. Agreed. BBSPR #14 was an independent analysis of USAF cases
and other material up to 1952. However, there are flaws and
mis-applications in this study, also. So much so, that Ruppelt
called it "useless".

The University of Colorado Study's 30% unknown is interesting in
that there was already a sifting applied to the cases available
for study. Why some easily explainable cases appear in the study
at all is beyond me. One would think the purpose was to find if
there was anything unique about UFOs, not to demonstrate that
rather uninteresting night lights traced to hot air balloons
were labeled as "UFOs".

 >>Stan Friedman

 >I believe we have had this discussion before.

 >There are multiple figures bandied about for genuine UFOs. I
 >think if you told most sceptical people that 20% of all UFOs
 >are truly unidentified, they might find that incredulous, and as
 >for 30%!

 >From my own personal experience I have found around 90% can be
 >explained with sufficient research. I know of people with both
 >higher and lower figures, and very different standards of
 >research. So I figure the quality of the research carried out
 >dramatically affects the quantity of trufo's (to use Bruce's
 >term).

Again, I don't believe this 90% figure. Prove it! Most UFO
reports are indeed not very interesting or lacking in certain
information which might give an explanation, but a look at USAF
explanations many are "not inconsistent with a... (balloon,
aircraft, etc.)" That is hardly an explanation.

About the best that can be said is that about half of UFO USAF
reports have a _proven_ explanation, that is someone has taken
the time and trouble to run down an explanation. Others are
"probably or possible". One should look closely at explanation
in USAF files which are listed as "balloons".

 >I have found that with Joe Q Public, and with skeptics of you
 >use the figure of 95 - 97% of UFOs can be explained, you will
 >get no argument from them, and _also_ you kinda get more respect
 >as an honest researcher. I guess this is because I do not come
 >across as a "believer", nor a sKeptic, but an honest to goodness
 >researcher.

 >For my guess 20 - 30% of reports being genuine UFOs feels way
 >too high, and 3 - 5% way too low, ten percent _feels_right_ as
 >far as I am concerned IMHO.

Guess! Yes that is the way to put. It is a feeling, a guess and
nothing more. Framesands!

 >Without wanting to get into a long drawn out statistical
 >argument (and I know maths well!) you can use statistics, and
 >various reports to prove those statistics, to prove whatever
 >figures you want to, but it is a matter of perception.

 >I'll explain.

 >If you was to tell Joe Q Public that 30% of UFO reports are
 >genuine and they will probably laugh at you. Tell them 95% and
 >you get a completely different reaction. That is why I use 95 -
 >97% of UFO's can be explained, it gets public acceptance of a
 >very difficult subject to get accepted. And the added bonus that
 >skeptics don't rant at you as a believer. <g>

 >Just my tuppence worth.


Without getting into a long and drawn out explanation why most
UFO stats are bull-butter and misapplication of statistical
analysis, let me just comment briefly here. "Insufficient
information" is not an explanation! In official stats, it has a
constantly changing meaning. What even constitutes a 'case' is
constantly changing. "Not a case, information only" seems like
another fudge factor. Especially, once they are reviewed and
found that some cases were indeed reported through official
channels, by USAF or other government personnel, and in
accordance with existing directives at the time.

One might say that the vast majority of cases are readily
explainable. The percentage of interesting cases is about 5% to
as maybe high as 10%. That is not unusual even in laboratory
controlled experiments. (Most data acquired in such experiments
under controlled condition are discarded.)

See Brad Sparks' first pass on re-evaluation of Project Blue
Book cases ("Information only" cases are included here.)

http://198.63.56.18/pdf/bluebookunknowns-v1.pdf

My estimate, again, _estimate_, based on review of about 1500 US
AF cases in detail from various years is that 2,000+ US AF
Project Blue Book cases are "unknown".


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







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                        Re: NASA UFO Secrets - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:45:39 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:41:26 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA UFO Secrets - White


 >From:     "james oberg" <joberg@houston.rr.com>
 >To:      <raven1@nas.net>
 >Subject:    NASA UFO Secrets
 >Date:     Mon, 20 May 2002 07:17:59 -0500

 >Please remind me of the specific 'NASA UFO Secrets' that you are
 >demanding be released. What evidence do you find compelling that
 >such material exists?

 >JimO

One piece of evidence is the Greer Disclosure Project testimony
of illustrator Donna Hare. Here is a clip from a May 11, 2001
article on the Greer Disclosure in the Washington Times:

============================================

Donna Hare, a NASA design illustrator with secret clearance,
said UFOs were routinely airbrushed out of high altitude photos
of the Earth before being released to the public.

"We always airbrush them out before we release them to the
public," one technician told her.

==============================================

Human witnesses put people in prison, and execute some of them.
Clearly human witnesses cannot be dismissed as "not being
evidence".

Within NASA's lifetime, other U.S. government agencies have
covered up brutal atrocities committed under the MKULTRA
program, the feeding and injection of radioactive material to
hundreds of innocent citizens, the deliberate witholding of
treatment for the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, and the utter
destruction of lives under the FBI's COINTELPRO activities. Thus
it is quite possible that NASA is witholding information.

I have also lived 60 years, during which I worked as an engineer
and served in the U.S. military. I know human nature, and how
human nature operates within government.

I've also heard about/read about/seen via documentaries enough
evidence of real objects seen by reliable witnesses and radar
confirmed as UFOs, with perhaps a quarter of the many thousand
cases unexplained, that I know craft which far exceed the
performance of those known to the public exist and are very
active around this planet.

It's logical to expect that such a high-ranking, high profile
aeronautics and space agency would be informed about these UFOs,
which can not, since the maturity of radar, and since the
phalanx of Greer Disclosure witnesses with classified access, be
denied any longer.

NASA owes its citizen-owners more than denials.

I have a great deal of respect for NASA - one of my former
engineering classmates holds a high position in your agency and
I think the world of his abilities, and I'm saddened that an
agency born under such terrific ideals, including putting aside
the rigid secrecy which the military is forced to operate under,
is now obviously witholding information that belongs to the
citizens of this planet.


Sincerely,

Eleanor White











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                 Re: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:17:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:44:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever


 >From: Conway Costigan <c_costigan@canada.com>
 >To: canufo@yahoogroups.com
 >Date: 18 May 2002 09:55:08 -0700
 >Subject: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

 >I heard this one with a considerable degree of hilarity. I
 >suppose the big K is using this to jump-start his lounge lizard
 >mentalist act.

 >First of all he has said that everything involved in his act has
 >nothing to do with the paranormal. It is all stage magic,
 >misdirection, sleight-of-hand, technological stuff.

 >For him to mention ufos is somewhat out of character. I could
 >probably expect David Copperfield expect to "materialize" a huge
 >craft in mid air - after all, that is his gig, but Kreskin?? He
 >usually does one-on-one or group stuff.

 >However, his claim that it would be so large and seen by so many
 >that ufos would have to be taken seriously doesn't hold water
 >either. However, he didn't say that it would be an ET-style
 >craft, simply "ufo" which is anything.

 >The many ufos seen over the White House in 1953 or '54, was seen
 >by hundreds if not thousands, photographed and splashed over the
 >newspapers of the world.

 >Then three days later, contrary to the newshound's genetic
 >imperative of following up... the story... simply...
 >disappeared.

 >If indeed it comes about (which I doubt, or if it does it is a
 >publicity trick) it will either be downright ignored, made into
 >a blimp, or otherwise downplayed or ridiculed.

 >But hey, it gives his act a little zip, increases his
 >appearance schedule... and he will donate the 50 G's to charity
 >saying, "they changed their minds".

 >Regards,

 >(a very cynical) CC

For the record, I know of no cases of UFOs seen over the White
House in 1953 or 1954. Or 1952.

Radar target were detected over restricted areas of Washington,
D. C. in 1952.

There are no photographs of UFOs over the White House that I am
aware of.

The one photograph shown over and over again of the Capitol
building with a series of lights over it taken by a German
tourist, was conclusive demonstrated to be lens flares, a common
photographic phenomenon.

That does not stop this picture from being used over and over
again in various news stories.

No systemic search of newspapers within 100 miles of Washington,
D. C. has been made for reported visual sightings. Such would be
an interesting project.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







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                     Re: Searching For Rudolph - Aubeck

From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:09:49 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:45:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Searching For Rudolph - Aubeck


 >From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
 >Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:31:48 +0000 (GMT)
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:28:04 -0500
 >Subject: Searching For Rudolph


 >Dear list,

 >I am currently trying to track down the earliest
 >source for an alleged teleportation/time travel
 >case. The incident involved one Rudolph Fentz, who
 >is said to have jumped from 1876 to 1950 at the age
 >of 29.

Dear List,

I finally managed to complete a detailed report on this
incident. The report is far too long to reproduce here, but I
would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who helped
me track down vital bibliography during my research.

The conclusion was rather foregone on the outset ("Rudolph
Fentz" was _not_ transported through time from the nineteenth
century to the twentieth) but the study may prove interesting or
illustrative to anyone who is compiling a list of similar
incidents (Lang, Lerch and so on). It also ties in with Ralph
Holland/Rolf Telano, the 1950s contactee.


Sincerely,

Chris Aubeck







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                CCCRN News: 2001 Summary Report Now in Print

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 17:32:39 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:49:00 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: 2001 Summary Report Now in Print


CCCRN NEWS
The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

May 20, 2002

_____________________________


2001 SUMMARY REPORT NOW IN PRINT AND MEDIA NOTICE


CANADIAN CROP CIRCLE SUMMARY REPORT 2001

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/summaryreport01.html

The Canadian Crop Circle Summary Report 2001 is now available in
a print edition. Full colour cover with b&w inside pages. 8.5 x
11 format, 20 pages, 38 photos and diagrams, with an overview of
the twenty reports including CCCRN's field investigations for
Crop Watch 2001 and related experiences and anomalies.

Prices (all in Canadian funds, including postage):
Canada: $6.00
USA: $6.50
Other Foreign: $8.00

Cheques or money orders should be made payable to Paul Anderson
and sent to:

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9
Canada

Payment by Paypal will be available soon through the web site.

Single copies available at presentations and conferences for
$5.00 each.

The sale of annual summary reports and related material helps
the research work to continue and provide a means of bringing
information to people who do not have internet access to the web
site, including many farmers; while not in the business of
selling merchandise as such, it is necessary to cover increasing
research related expenses involved such as maintaining the web
site (upgrading required), field investigations, follow-up,
presentations, etc. Subsequent annual summary reports will also
now be released in print. Thank you for your support!


GLOBAL NATIONAL AND UNSOLVED MYSTERIES PROGRAMS

Also, the Global National news program in Canada will be running
a series of reports this coming week (May 20-24) on various
paranormal topics in Canada, including the crop circles of 2001
and CCCRN's investigations on tonight's program, May 20. Please
check local listings for times. As well, the Unsolved Mysteries
segment (Lifetime, USA) on the Canadian circles of 2001 is now
scheduled to air on August 2, 2002, the same date as the premier
of the Signs movie as it turns out.

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
psa@look.ca

To unsubscribe, send an e-mail with Unsubscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
psa@look.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and
scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma.

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

=A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002






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   May > May 21

                     Eras News: Weekly Briefing 5.20.02

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 18:51:55 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:10:56 -0400
Subject: Eras News: Weekly Briefing 5.20.02


ERAS NEWS
The E-News Service of The Eras Project

http://www.geocities.com/erasproject

May 20, 2002

_____________________________


WEEKLY BRIEFING
5.20.02


EXOBIOLOGY
The Search for Extraterrestrial Life

Resolution of a Big Argument About Tiny Magnetic Minerals in
Martian Meteorite
http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/May02/ALH84001magnetite.html

The Cydonian Imperative: 'Cydonia Hilton'
http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

The Cydonian Imperative: New Image of 'Hollow'
http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

NASA to Proceed on Two Approaches for Planet Finder
http://www.space.com/searchforlife/new_approach_020510.html

Taking Dim View of Stars to Find More Earths
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/05/14/planet.finder/index.html

Hubble Telescope: Surprise Tool in Search for Life
http://www.space.com/searchforlife/hubble_exoplanets_020513.html

Odds on Aliens: One in Three Planets Like Earth Probably Harbour
Life
http://www.nature.com/nsu/020513/020513-3.html

SETI Backers Seek Another Frontier
http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2002/05/12/local.20020512-sbt-FULL-A=
1-SETI_backers_seek_an.sto

To Err is Human... and of Interest to ET?
http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_vakoch_err_020516.html


QUANTA
Science and Technology

Mystery Bursts Tied Firmly to Exploding Stars
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/mystery_bursts
_020516.html

Washington's Budget Cuts Put Europa Mission On Hold
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-000033926may13.story?coll=3Dla%2Dnews=
%2Dscience

UH Astronomers Announce Discovery of 11 New Satellites of Jupiter
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~sheppard/satellites/jup.html

Earth Punctured by Tiny Cosmic Missiles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=3D%2Fnews%2F2002%2F05%2F12%2F=
wnugg12.xml

How Venus Lost Its Oceans
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/venus_oceans_020516.html

'Flying Saucer' Spotted In Distant Skies
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/eso_flysaucer_
020513.html

Asteroid Might Have Started Dinosaur Age
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/05/16/asteroid.dinosaurs/index.html

Wearable Computers Enhance the World
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/05/13/augmented.reality.ap/index.html


EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena

Alien Autopsy Film Review
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/aafilm/aaindex.html


____________________________


Eras News is the e-news service of The Eras Project, providing
the latest news, reports and updates, including the Weekly
Briefing, sent free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe Eras News in the
subject line to:

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on the leading-edge news, events, ideas and discoveries that
will shape the future of humanity as we enter the 21st Century
and a new Era.

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=A9 The Eras Project, 2002







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                   Two UFO Sightings From India - 03-2002

From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:32:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:15:33 -0400
Subject: Two UFO Sightings From India - 03-2002


http://ufos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.anomalies.net/

UFO sighting by software engineer in Goa, March 12, 2002

I wish to inform you of a strange experience that I was involved
in.

First, let me tell you that until March 12th, I was a total
disbeliever in aliens. However on the 12th, in Verna, Goa, on
the eve of my departure for Mumbai, I was taking a stroll on a
deserted road. It was twilight, and there were no other humans
in sight - just some goats grazing in a field.

It was then that I saw an amber glow in front of me. I looked up
to see what was causing it, and noticed a peculiar cylindrical
object hovering above. I cannot say exactly how large it was,
because I was too confused to take in those details. As I stood
in the glow, I felt a rather strange sensation, as if my skin
was peeling. However it caused me no bodily harm. Then the
object rose higher and moved out of sight.

I consulted my watch to note the time, and it said 7:03.
However, on returning home, I noticed that the watch was still
showing 7:03. I am now in Mumbai and tried taking 2 family
members into confidence, but they laughed at me and called my
thoughts irrational.

I turned to the Internet to research this topic, and within a
day, I came across your site. As most people do not listen to
what I have to say, it is my sincere hope that you at least
will. I think this matter is serious, and if you have any
explanation or theory about it, please forward the same to me.


Regards,

Roger Sequeira

(Note: Roger Sequiera is 31 years old and a software engineer
residing in Mumbai)

-----

http://ufos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.anomalies.net/

UFO sighting in Calcutta March 3, 2002

Here are the details of the incident of March 3, 2002. My wife
and I were driving back from Bidhan Nagar towards the airport in
Calcutta. While driving, my wife's attention was grabbed by a
bright white light, fairly low on the horizon in front and to
our right. Glancing in the direction she was pointing I observed
an extremely bright light.

It was a perfectly clear night, and the clock on the dashboard
in my car confirmed it was precisely 7.20 pm The light was
clearly the brightest object in the sky by a factor of many
magnitude (say 20X brighter than the brightest star which was
visible). Initially I assumed it was the landing lights of an
aircraft, but as I continued to drive, I expected the light to
diminish as my reference to the aircraft continued to change. I
also expected to see the usual red and green blinking lights on
the wing tips, but the remarkable thing was that the intensity
did not change nor could we see the intermittent red and green
lights normally associated with aircraft.

I then thought that the object was a helicopter, as it seemed to
be just hanging motionless in the air. But with all the car
windows down, neither of us could hear any aircraft engine
sound. However given the relative position of the light to us, I
would have definitely expected to hear some engine and rotor
noise had this been a helicopter. I have considered the
possibility that I may have just observed natural phenomena such
as a star or bright planet. I would be interested to here from
anyone else who may have seen this object or can offer some
explanation.


Sincerely,

Aninda Dutta

World Of The Strange Newsletter    http://www.worldofthestrange.com
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                          Re: UFO Stats - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:28:44 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:22:14 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Friedman


 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?]
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 05:58:42 -0700 (PDT)

 >>From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:40:38 +0200
 >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

<snip>

 >It is my feeling that none of these statistics are very reliable
 >as the cases examined may differ from report to report as will
 >the depth of analysis, and possibly the criteria for
 >categorizing an unknown. The range from 8.6% to 30% classified
 >as unknown or UFO may just give us a general indication. In
 >sighting numbers, this is still a high figure.

 >Also of interest is would be some indication of what percentage
 >of cases are reported. I believe that Stan asked audiences how
 >many had seen a UFO having them raise hands, then followed this
 >with how many had reported their sighting with a much lesser
 >number of hands raised.


At the end of my 'Flying Saucers ARE Real' lecture I normally
ask as the first question in in the Q and A session "How many
people here believe they have seen what I would consider to be a
flying saucer (I defined my terms at the beginnning).

The hands go up slowly.

As soon as I see 2 in the same part of the hall I will start
counting out loud, so that audience members will know there are
many sighters out there. Typically it is about 10% of the
crowd... in general audiences. Much higher, if it is a workshop.

Then I ask "How many of you reported your sighting?". About 90%
of the hands go down.

If there are some left, I will ask "how many of you were in the
military when the sighting occured?" and then "do you want to
tell us about it?" Get some very fascinating reports... some
only told to me at the book table afterward.


Stan Friedman







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              Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Costigan

From: Conway Costigan <c_costigan@canada.com>
Date: 20 May 2002 15:01:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:27:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Costigan

[canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:17:37 -0400
 >Subject: Re: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

 >>From: Conway Costigan <c_costigan@canada.com>
 >>To: canufo@yahoogroups.com
 >>Date: 18 May 2002 09:55:08 -0700
 >>Subject: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

<snip>

 >>The many ufos seen over the White House in 1953 or '54, was seen
 >>by hundreds if not thousands, photographed and splashed over the
 >>newspapers of the world.

 >>Then three days later, contrary to the newshound's genetic
 >>imperative of following up... the story... simply...
 >>disappeared.

 >>If indeed it comes about (which I doubt, or if it does it is a
 >>publicity trick) it will either be downright ignored, made into
 >>a blimp, or otherwise downplayed or ridiculed.

 >>But hey, it gives his act a little zip, increases his
 >>appearance schedule... and he will donate the 50 G's to charity
 >>saying, "they changed their minds".


 >For the record, I know of no cases of UFOs seen over the White
 >House in 1953 or 1954. Or 1952.

 >Radar target were detected over restricted areas of Washington,
 >D. C. in 1952.

 >There are no photographs of UFOs over the White House that I am
 >aware of.

 >The one photograph shown over and over again of the Capitol
 >building with a series of lights over it taken by a German
 >tourist, was conclusive demonstrated to be lens flares, a common
 >photographic phenomenon.

 >That does not stop this picture from being used over and over
 >again in various news stories.

<snip>

Hello Jan,

If the photograph you are referring to is the one that was
splashed over US newspapers was derived from a lens flare, it is
a peculiar lens flare that has multiple objects in a delta
formation with staggered formations.


Regards,

CC






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   May > May 21

                            Shag Harbour On eBay

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 20:31:49 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:30:27 -0400
Subject: Shag Harbour On eBay


The museum in Shag harbour is trying to raise money so they have
put some of their stuff up on ebay. This includes the Post
Office sanctioned cancellation stamped postcard in a plastic
holder, a wooden nickle and a aerial shot overlooking the impact
site.

Go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1353966319


Best,

Don Ledger







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                Kennedy Administration On Alien Race Question

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@canada.com>
Date: 20 May 2002 18:24:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:34:34 -0400
Subject: Kennedy Administration On Alien Race Question


Memorandum From Maxwell W. Hunter II of the National Aeronautics
and Space Council (Executive Office of the President) to Robert
F. Packard of the Office of International Scientific Affairs,
Washington, July 18, 1963.


Thoughts on the Space Alien Race Question

During recent discussions the question has occasionally, though
rarely, arisen that perhaps we should consider the policy
question of what to do if an alien intelligence is discovered in
space. Some discussion of this occurred, as you will recall,
during deliberations on BNSP Task I. This memo contains some
miscellaneous thoughts on the question.

The consensus of scientific view says, with quite good reasons,
that the possibility of running across an alien intelligent race
in our solar system is negligible. This is due primarily to the
presumed unsuitability of conditions upon other planets to
support life as we know it. The flying saucer advocates claim,
of course, that the scientific viewpoint is nonsense, and that
there is overwhelming evidence of such beings. In my own mind, I
find it difficult to side with the flying saucer advocates, but
the almost total impossibility envisioned by most scientists
also is disturbing. Therefore, I present the problem in current
perspective, as I see it.

Up until a few decades ago it seemed very improbable that
intelligent life existed anywhere outside of the solar system.
The chief reasons for this were a combination of scientific
theory, scientific knowledge, and religious belief. The most
widely accepted scientific theory as to the formation of the
solar planetary system held that it was a result of the near
collision of two stars. Since such a precise near miss of two
stars would be an extremely rare event, it followed that there
would be very few other planetary systems in the universe and,
indeed, perhaps this was the only one. Religious belief said,
furthermore, that life was a gift bestowed by God. This was a
relatively undisputed point since no scientific data existed to
bridge the gap between non-living and living materials.

The situation today is vastly changed in these respects. The
most widely held theory of stellar formation would predict the
formation of planetary systems to be a natural consequence of
stellar evolution. On this basis, most stars would possess
planetary systems, and the number of habitable planets in our
galaxy would be tremendous. Our biggest telescopes cannot
resolve planets at the distances even of the nearest stars, so
no direct confirmation is yet available. In my own mind,
however, the wide prevalence of multiple stars is an
overwhelming hint in support of this theory. In addition, the
biological sciences have almost completely traced a series of
natural occurrences, which lead from inanimate molecules to
elementary living viruses. Thus, we have the current scientific
theory and data not only that there are a huge number of planets
in the galaxy, but that life is quite likely to arise
spontaneously on a large number of these. This, of course, does
not necessarily imply intelligent life. Modern theology is not
necessarily incompatible with this. The description in Genesis
of the Creation certainly is a better picture of the current
theory than of a stellar collision, and since God only spent
seven days on this system, He has clearly had lots of time to
create many more systems.

Even granting a probable existence of much life in the galaxy,
there is still the question of whether another intelligent race
exists in our solar system. There are, of course, two methods of
its establishment in our system. One of these is that it
originated on some other planet, for instance, Mars. Some of the
spectacular markings of Mars have been interpreted as indicating
intelligence. In particular, the famous "Canali" are rather
narrow, and always run from one prominent marking to another,
frequently with round splotches at intersections. As far as I
know, no one has discovered a "Canali" which goes nowhere. This
has quite understandably stimulated much conversation. In fact,
a number of decades ago, when scientists thought that any life
on other stellar systems was very remote, they seemed to feel
that intelligent life probably existed on our other planets.
Some of the discussions about life on Mars at the turn of the
century seem to indicate a strong urge to want to find
intelligent life elsewhere. Today, the situation is completely
reversed, and although intelligent life is considered quite
probable among the stars, it is held to be quite unlikely within
the solar system. We seem more eager to listen with Ozma than to
look closely at Canali.

One school of flying saucer advocates claims that the Martians
have been mining our moon for natural resources for some time.
At first thought, one would think they would rather mine earth.
It is interesting to speculate, however, upon space flight from
the point of view of a Martian. The escape speed of Mars is only
16,500 fps, and, of course, braking speed on our moon is less
than 10,000 fps. Thus, Martians looking at earth would tend to
view it the same way Terrestrials look at Jupiter. Our moon
might not be less work to get to, since atmospheric braking to
earth is possible, but would be very much easier to return from,
while the energy requirements to go to and return from the
surface of the earth might well be so high as to discourage
interest, at least initially. Interestingly enough, even a
normal high energy chemical rocket could make a trip from Mars
to our moon at favorable times while carrying almost 10% of its
gross weight in payload. Space flight starting from Mars, then,
is a much easier prospect than starting from Terra. If a
suitable refueling base had been painfully established on our
moon, the operation could be done quite commendably with merely
chemical energy. (The aforementioned high energy chemical rocket
could carry at favorable times almost 50% payload back to Mars.)
Of course, many flying saucer advocates claim that the discovery
of both Martian moons within a week in the latter part of the
Nineteenth Century indicates that they are large artificial
space stations, otherwise they would have been found earlier. If
we were to discover Martians on the moon, it would result in
surprisingly little readjustment of our scientific thinking. The
biggest question would be why they were there rather than among
the Asteroids.

In fact, if we were not as scientifically sure of ourselves as
we are, three recent events would be hailed as broad hints of
intelligent life on the moon. (1) The discovery of hot gasses
emanating from the crater Alphonsus when the moon was supposedly
dead. This would be considered evidence of civilization and,
since Alphonsus is close to the visible edge, interpreted to
mean that the other side of the moon was teeming with
population, which had begun to spill around to this side. (2)
The infra-red scans which show hot spots. These would be
interpreted as indications of cities or at least mining camps.
(3) The fact that no lunar or planetary probe of significance
has been successful, in spite of major efforts on the part of
two very successful earth orbit faring nations. It would be
supposed that someone was denying us deep space. (The other-
side-of-the-moon pictures from Lunik III show no details of
consequence, and the same can be said of the data from Mariner
II compared to what we had already known about Venus from earth-
based measurements.) Should the Martians have colonized the moon
without discovering nuclear energy, then they represent no real
problem, and our current national policy would be made to order
for the situation. If all of this were true, of course, I would
expect the Martians to be scared to death of what they have seen
recently on this planet, and would expect that the highest
priority development program in the solar system is being
conducted by the Atomic Energy Commission of Mars.

Even if we are secure in our belief that intelligent life never
would develop on Mars or some other solar planet, there is still
the question of visitors to the solar system from other stellar
systems. This is normally written off as an extremely low
probability, due to the tremendous distances between stars, and
the Einstein limitation on travel faster than the speed of
light. Therefore, even if there are a large number of
intelligent life forms in the galaxy, and even if they are
continuously searching for other races, the frequency of
investigation of any stellar system would be only once in many
thousands of years and contact would rarely, if ever, be
achieved. It might never be achieved, since presumably
intelligent races die out. (What happened to the planet whose
pieces now are spread around the Asteroid Belt? Or, for that
matter, why is Uranus lying on its side?) I am not sure that
this travel restriction is quite as infallible as it sounds. I
believe that it is possible with what we now know about nuclear
energy to envision ships driven at half to three-quarters of the
speed of light. This, since the galaxy is 100,000 light-years
across, still does not make a search of the entire galaxy
feasible within the life span of the average man. But suppose
some race under pressure of population explosion were expanding
as fast as technically feasible from star to star throughout the
galaxy. If their ships averaged half the speed of light, and if,
on the average, they stopped every 10 light-years for a twenty-
year stay at a stellar system to deposit colonists, refuel, and
build extra ships, they would only take two hundred thousand
years, starting at the center of the galaxy, to spread
throughout the whole system. Since the earliest known remains of
man have recently been dated at approximately one million seven
hundred thousand years, a sustained drive for merely two hundred
thousand years may not be unreasonable. Of course, if we were to
run across representatives of this kind of interstellar race,
they would not be nearly as tame as the previously hypothesized
chemical Martians, and our policy would need to be revised
accordingly. Fortunately, travel time restrictions would inhibit
their ability to bring all forces to bear, in case we should
develop differences of viewpoint.

The third possibility, scientifically abhorrent, is that the
Einstein theory may only be an approximation, and an alien race
which actually travels faster than light exists. If we were to
meet such a race, our policy had better be to negotiate fast,
because the implications of their far better understanding and
control of the fundamental forces of nature would be obvious. If
all the scientific speculation were to turn out wrong and we
were to stumble across an alien race, we would want to know as
quickly as possible which of the three types I have indicated it
was, as our diplomatic policy would damned well be influenced by
the results.

Conclusions

Although all plausible scientific thinking suggests that we will
not find any other intelligence race, the probability that we
will is finite, and perhaps should not be completely ignored.
Were we to find one, the question of whether it was a race with
primitive chemical space flight, space flight equivalent to our
best understanding of nuclear energy, or space flight based on
physics beyond Einstein should be ascertained as rapidly as
possible, since our policies would be affected in the most
drastically possible way. In any event, a policy of the
immediate burying of all Terrestrial hatchets would likely be in
order. Even if we only found tame chemical Martians, or merely
the debris from some intergalactic survey mission, it would be a
good idea to proceed on the assumption that the human race would
finally have found a bigger problem than the ones it has created
for itself. There likely is nothing to be done at the moment to
prepare for these possibilities (the only body of writing on the
subject available in an emergency is science fiction), because
no one of consequence is going to take this rubbish seriously
unless it happens. At that point, our policy will be determined
in the traditional manner of grand panic.



The Presidents UFO Story
www.presidentialufo.com






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                    Pravda - UFO Flies Over Perm Stadium

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 04:52:18 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:41:39 -0400
Subject: Pravda - UFO Flies Over Perm Stadium


Source: Pravda, May 20, 2002,

http://english.pravda.ru/fun/2002/05/20/28974.html

Perm is well-known as the domicile of the Russian UFO Research
Station. See:

http://ufo.psu.ru/eng/

The city is situated on the western side of the Ural mountains
and about 200 km north west of Sverdlovsk.

Stig

***

14:30 2002-05-20

UFO FLEW OVER PERM STADIUM

Several dozens of Perm citizens saw an UFO flying over Energia
stadium situated in the centre of the city. One of the
witnesses, former military possessing flying training found
difficulty in identifying the object with known to him flying
devices constructed on the Earth.

According to him, the UFO was a three-dimensional body with flat
round basis, similar to a reverse tureen. The 'tureen' slowly
moved over the sky towards south, keeping the same height and
speed. The object flew soundlessly, without leaving any glow or
air track. According to the observer, the distance from him to
the UFO was approximately 400 km, while its diameter made 10 or
15 metres. In five minutes, the object disappeared over the
houses in Kommunisticheskaya Street.

**

Copyright =A91999 by "Pravda.ru". When reproducing our materials
in whole or in part, reference to Pravda.ru should be made.

The opinions and views of the authors do not always coinside
with the point of view of PRAVDA.Ru's editors.







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                    Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 23:03:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:46:11 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?


 >Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:11:11 -0500 (CDT)
 >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
 >>>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

<snip>

 >So your argument is, therefore, that because the number of
 >reports from amateur astronomers is so small, my point that some
 >amateur astronomers see UFOs is irrelevant? Remember, my point
 >was to counter Phil's comment that NO amateur astronomers report
 >seeing UFOs. (He actually says that none of them do! Read his
 >rebuttal.)

No, just that you seemed to be over-emphasising the anecdotal
value of the stories from the amateurs who hang out with you,
when the subject was large scale opinion survey.

 >All you're doing is reiterating his view that amateur
 >astronomers watch the skies more than most people. So what?

This isn't what your post seemed to be saying when you discussed
the many amatuer astronomers who you saw only spend their time
in heated rooms. The survey was about their lifetime
experiences.

 >So do pilots, and they are watching the skies much more carefully
 >than astronomers, and there are many, many UFO reports by pilots
 >on record.

So, what. The subject was an opinion survey of amateur
astronomers. What do pilots have to do with the opinions of
amatuer astronomers as revealed in this 1977 survey?

 >>>Furthermore, Plait as obviously never read the Gert Herb
 >>>Report.

 >>Has anybody? That has always been a puzzle to me.
 >>The survey done of the American Astronomical Society, the
 >>professionals, has been trumpeted around for twenty-five years,
 >>but Herb's CUFOS amateur survey has curiously dropped off
 >>the radar screen of Ufology. I have always wondered why?

 >Really? That's funny. Ufologists know about it. You know about
 >it. I know about it.

How many references to the Gert Herb survey of amateur
astronomers can you find in the UFO literature, Chris? And if
you can actually find one, does it mention any details?

 >>Could it be because it didn't support the contention of the
 >>believers that the more one looks at the sky the more UFOs
 >>one notices?

 >Oh, was that the believers' contention? That seems to be the
 >basis for the null hypothesis you are trying to prove, no one
 >else.

At least on this list.

 >I don't know any serious researchers who think that the
 >amount of time watching the sky is related to the number of
 >UFOs.

Well, you may have something here. The last thing that the
believers are interested in is the lack of evidence.

But, why is that, do you think? If no amount of watching the sky
is related to UFOs observed, then you must believe that UFOs
could be explained by the Psycho-Social hypothesis?

We could have some common ground, here.

 >>The League is a federation of amateur clubs with a few
 >>individual members. The experience level of the club members
 >>ranges from what I would call very experienced observers, some
 >>of whom have been active for decades, to beginners, including
 >>some children. The other two groups in the survey, the
 >>Association of Lunar & Planetary Observers and the International
 >>Occultation Timing Association, included mostly very experienced
 >>observers, with a scattering of an occasional professional. I
 >>think it is safe to assume, though, that these people, whatever
 >>their experience level, probably have a better knowledge of the
 >>sky and more experience looking at the sky (mostly, but not
 >>exclusively at night) than the average person.

 >And it's somehow not relevant to you that even with the
 >significant observing expertise of this group, there were UFO
 >witnesses?

It is relevant, particularly when one considers the amounts of
time these people have spent looking at the sky during their
observering lifetimes, compared to the Gallup Poll respondents.
The children among the respondents though are another thing. It
seems to me that there was a question in the survey about the
number of years one had been an amateur or observed the sky.
It's too bad that we'll never know because the survey followup
was botched.

 >>After the article was published I wrote a couple letters to Mr.
 >>Herb, in care of CUFOS, asking if it were possible to break down
 >>the numbers for experienced and less experienced observers. Even
 >>though at least one of my letters was picked up at the CUFOS
 >>office, I never received a response.

 >It obviously could never have been the tone of your letter,
 >could it?

Never. Actually, I was quite interested in the survey's results,
so I am sure that my tone was respectful. You see, back in those
days of my callow youth, I may actually have wondered if there
might be a mystery or two in UFOs.

 >Could it have been that Herb may have been inundated
 >with responses and simply didn't have the time to respond?

To the president of the organization that he polled, which had
never received any report of the survey's results, that finally
had to be fished out by our editor?

 >Or that he was facing many cricisms from within the astronomical
 >community and decided to refrain from further research? The
 >messenger got shot, perhaps. It's another theory, at least as
 >valid as yours, which assumes he was incompetent.

That's one interpretation to which I don't necessarily subsribe.
There might also be the theory that the results may not have
been what were hoped for and the realization that careful
followup would only lower the percentage of UFO sighters from
among those who didn't care about returning the original form.

There is a third theory more charitable theory, which could just
as well be the case, and that is that a careful followup to the
nearly 10,000 AL members may just have been too costly. But
that's only a guess.

<snip>

 >But it's also possible that peer pressure and uninformed
 >predisposition among astronomers contributed to the lack of
 >response as well.

To an anonymous, mailed survey? Follow-up worked with the two
smaller groups of experienced observers, why would this be more
likely with a larger, more general population of people who
belong to clubs?

I guess this could be the ultimate ufological put-down for any
observer: if you don't see or report flying saucers you must be
biased or pre-disposed to not report them, because you aren't
seeing as many as the unwashed masses.

 >Do you usually read this much into surveys?

Yeah, usually.

 >>When one considers the actual number of responses from those
 >>polled, only 5% of the amateurs polled reported seeing something
 >>they couldn't identify and only 1.8% reported "high strangeness"
 >>sightings.

 >... which supports MY point that most astronomers aren't
 >interested in objects that are non-astronomical.

Or was it that they thought the subject was just a waste of time?

 >>Amateurs not good enough for you? Peter Sturrock polled
 >>professional astronomers and found many of them have seen
 >>UFOs, too.

 >Reporting that they have seen a UFO:
 >>American professional astronomers  -  2%
 >>1973 Gallup Poll of adult Americans -  11%
 >>American amateur astronomers     -  5%
 >>"high strangeness" sightings    -  2%
 >>1978 Gallup Poll of adult Americans -  9%

 >>The conclusion is clear: the more familiar one is with the sky,
 >>the more unlikely one is to report a UFO.

Boy, you'd be great in a test on critical thinking. Derrida
would love you. Perhaps some reading on deconstruction would be
useful. All the data shows is that the general public is about
two to four times as unfamiliar with objects in the sky as
astronomers.

Not when one considers the time spent looking at the sky during
an observing lifetime. When one factors this in the public is
probably orders of magnitude less familiar with the sky.

 >This is apart from the fact that the polls asked
 >differing questions, so cannot be compared easily (another
 >survey design problem).

Yes, I agree, this is always a problem in attempting "mega"
surveys.

 >And that "the public" also includes pilots, weather observers
 >(and even other astronomers) who observe the sky often.

Yes, and the amateurs in the advanced groups as well as League
clubs were polled twice.

 >>>that amateur astronomers aren't interested in moving lights in
 >>>the sky any more than they are in identifiable aircraft. The
 >>>ones I hang out with want to do some specific imaging of nebulas
 >>>and galaxies, and spend a lot of time looking through eyepieces
 >>>with tiny fields of view. Of course, many have now switched to
 >>>computer-guided scopes and spend their time in warm-up rooms,
 >>>often miles away from the telescope itself.

 >>How many amateur astronomers can Chris name who have such
 >>remotely operated equipment? A dozen that he's read about,
 >>somewhere? I belong to an active amateur club with about 110
 >>members which operates a public observatory, and not one person
 >>has such equipment.

 >I said "many", in the context of all amateur astronomers. I knew
 >three personally, out of the dozen or so who were regular
 >observers.

 >>I am even more puzzled because Chris is, I believe, a past
 >>president of a local astronomy club in Winnipeg. How many
 >>members of your group up there only observe electronically from
 >>control rooms miles away from the 'scopes?

 >Out of all the members, only a comparative few. Out of the
 >active group who have gone on to do further research, a higher
 >percentage. Boy, you're really trying to mislead the list
 >readers by doubting my credibility, aren't you? Nice tactic.

When you claimed that many amateurs use advanced, remote
equipment and do their observing from heated rooms miles away I
doubted your credibility, myself. Then I remembered that you had
been in one of the clubs, there.

In any case, the percentage of amateur astronomers on the
continent who fall in this category is minuscule, certainly less
that the sighters. And it could not be a reason that 78% of the
respondents, and three quarters of the rest, didn't report
seeing any UFOs. Any way, this was 1977 and almost no amateurs
had equipment like this.

<snip>

 >... and this shows your own bias. I never wrote about "alien
 >starships." All I was discussing was UFOs, and that was what
 >this whole thing was about. Simple reports of unidentified
 >objects in the sky.

 >>The polling data is clear: the more familiar one is with the
 >>sky, the less likely one is to report seeing a UFO.

 >And that statement is not supported by the data.

 >Nice try, though.

It's obvious that this is, and will continue to be, a Tale of
Two Cities.


Clear skies and Messier nights,

Bob Young





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   May > May 21

                          Re: UFO Stats - Alexander

From: James Alexander <james-m-alexander@rogers.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 23:33:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 09:59:05 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Alexander


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:36:31 -0300


 >>I believe we have had this discussion before.

 >>There are multiple figures bandied about for genuine UFOs. I
 >>think if you told most sceptical people that 20% of all UFOs
 >>are truly unidentified, they might find that incredulous, and as
 >>for 30%!

<snip>

 >I simply don't understand how you have come to the conclusion as
 >to what the public will accept. I have given over 700 lectures
 >in 15 countries. In the great majority, I have presented tabular
 >data from BB Special Report 14 in contrast to the Secretary of
 >the Air Force's false claim that even the UNKNOWN 3% could have
 >been explained if more complete observational data had been
 >available. I discuss the findingsof the AIAA UFO subcommittee
 >that 30% of the 117 cases investigated by the U. of Colorado
 >could not be identified. I note that 746 of the 4500 cases noted
 >in 'The UFO Evidence'" could not be unidentified. I also note
 >that, of course, there was a separate Category Insufficient
 >Information in BBSR 14.

 >I come on very strong, document what I say, and have an open Q
 >and A session after each talk. I have had all of 11 hecklers two
 >of whom were drunk. Some audiences were as big as 2,000.

 >Why in the world should I, or any ufologist, soft soap the
 >truth? I think it is not appropriate to be an apologist
 >ufologist, so long as one can back up the claims that are made.
 >The same goes for comments that most people don't believe in
 >UFOs or that scientists don't see them. One of the reasons the
 >media has the wrong impressions is that we ufologists have let
 >the skeptics get away with so many false claims. Carl Sagan got
 >away with saying, falsely, that there are no reliable sightings
 >that are interesting..... Balderdash should be called balderdash

 >I will take BBSR 14 and the Condon report and Dick Hall's work
 >over Allen Hendry's, any time.

 >I don't tell John Q. Public 30% of sightings are UNKNOWNS, I say
 >that according to the AIAA subcommittee 30% of Condon's cases
 >turned out to be UNKNOWNS - and no UFO "Buffs" on the committee.
 >BMI's people found that 35% of the highest quality reports could
 >not be explained. These are _facts_ not opinions. The truth shall
 >set you free, somebody said.

 >I have done hundreds of hours of radio and TV programs. No eggs
 >or tomatoes at the lectures or razzberries on the air. If one
 >can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen, said Harry
 >Truman.....


Stan, Errol and everyone else,

I'm not much of an investigator compared to youself and some
others here. But I've been noticing this debate for a while. The
actual percentage of sightings which could be true 'unknowns'
puts in mind the whole credibility issue.

Lets face it, we all know this subject has a reputation of being
the topic of choice for 'Kooks'. To make a long story short.....

I think that you, Chris Rutkowski, Errol and others here are on
the right track in turning that reputation around.

I personally think its insulting when some well-known scientest
spouts off with "why would an alien come all this way only to
make contact with a bunch of kooks", the implication that anyone
who has a sighting is a "Nut".

If someone who's not exceptionally brilliant (such as an average
guy like me) who has trouble with college level calculus can
admit that theres a difference between an accurately reported
sighting and the silliness, why can't someone with a Ph.D
realise the same thing?







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                      errace, British Columbia 03-2002

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:20:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:02:28 -0400
Subject: errace, British Columbia 03-2002


Terrace, British Columbia

Date:  March 9, 2002
Time: approx: 10:30 p.m.

The exact location in Terrace where this object was seen, was
over Brown's Island at Thronhill.

I sat down talking with a fellow who gave me a short report on
what he had seen. This I thought was an interesting sighting. If
everyone has been keeping some kind of track as to where all the
sightings are coming from, you will see that for some reason
Terrace, B.C. is high on this list for reports.

The witness is a 73 year old man, and along with his companion
observed a large glowing object traveling east at approx: 1000
feet off the ground. The sighting he estimated lasted approx: 5
to 10 seconds before it disappeared in the distance. The fellow
told me that there were a pile of lights on the bottom of the
object. ( I asked if he could be more precise with his
description of the lights running around the bottom of this
craft).

He told me when they first seen this object which was traveling
towards them (or close), they were taken completely by surprise
and the total time for the sighting was really short. But he did
feel the lights were in a circular pattern and all white in
color. They also were able to see this very clearly due to being
close to a large open field. (no trees to block the view from
where they first noticed it).

Thanks to this gentleman for his report.


Take care

Brian
HBCC UFO







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                 MIT Data: Gravitational Constant May Not Be

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 06:55:23 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:04:55 -0400
Subject: MIT Data: Gravitational Constant May Not Be


Source: United Press International,

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=3D04052002-101439-3089r

Stig

***

Newton's cherished constant may not be

**

 >From the Science & Technology Desk

Published 5/6/2002 1:15 PM

*

CAMBRIDGE, Mass., May 6 (UPI) -- A Russian physicist at
Massachusetts Institute of Technology has announced experimental
data that may topple one of science's most cherished dogmas --
  that Newton's gravitational constant, famously symbolized by a
large "G," remains constant wherever, whenever and however it is
measured.

"My colleagues and I have successfully experimentally
demonstrated that the force of gravitation between two test
bodies varies with their orientation in space, relative to a
system of distant stars," Mikhail Gershteyn, a visiting
scientist at the MIT Plasma Science and Fusion Center, told
United Press International from Cambridge, Mass..

Isaac Newton first described G in 1687 as a fundamental
component of his universal law of gravity. Two masses, Newton
wrote, attract each other with a force proportional to their
mass that falls off rapidly as the bodies move farther and
farther apart. Albert Einstein later used G in his own field
equations that fine-tuned Newton's original laws. In Einstein's
universe, gravity is the effect on bodies moving through space
that is curved or warped by the presence of matter.

The constant G describes gravity's attractive force precisely
and appears in equations for any gravitational field, whether
the field is between planets, stars, galaxies, microscopic
particles or rays of light. Centuries of measurement have firmly
fixed the value of G as the complex formula 6.673 times 10 to
the minus 11th power, times meters traveled per second times the
number of kilograms, squared.

Gravity is a relatively very weak force, yet it is strong enough
to hold planets in orbit and to mash great gobs of matter into
incredibly dense, infinitesimally small black holes.

If G varies under any circumstances, scientists would have to
rewrite virtually every physical law, including a long-accepted
feature of the universe -- isotropy, or the condition that a
body's physical properties are independent of its orientation in
space.

The idea that forces on bodies may vary relative to the
orientation of distant stars has a powerful historical precedent
in "Mach's Principle," a term Einstein coined in 1918 for the
theory that eventually led him to his biggest breakthrough --
  general relativity.

Swing a bucket of water at the end of rope and centrifugal
forces pull it up and away. These forces result from the
combined gravitational pull of all the distant stars and
planets, Austrian physicist Ernst Mach wrote. Therefore any
change in the orientation of heavenly bodies would affect forces
on matter everywhere, so powerful is their combined effect. The
idea that Newton's G may change relative to the rest of the
universe is an example of Mach's adage -- matter out there
affects forces right here.

Gershteyn said his experiments show Newton's G "changes with the
orientation of test masses by at least 0.054 percent." This
remarkable and unprecedented finding has landed his paper on the
subject in the June issue of the international journal
Gravitation and Cosmology.

"The fact that G varies depending on orientation of the two
gravitating bodies relative to a system of fixed stars is a
direct challenge to Newton's Universal Law of Gravitation,"
Gershteyn told UPI. "The existence of such an effect requires a
radically new theory of gravitation, because the magnitude of
this effect dwarfs any of Einstein's corrections to Newtonian
gravity."

"Gershteyn and his coworkers lay an extraordinary and very
interesting claim which -- if proven true -- would change our
view of the universe," Lev Tsimring, a research physicist with
the Institute for Nonlinear Science at the University of
California San Diego, told UPI. "In a well-controlled
experiment, the authors proposed to measure the gravitational
force between two bodies with respect to the orientation of the
experimental setup to distant stars," Tsimring explained. The
experiment, he said, would seek to detect gravitational
anisotropy -- the condition that the attractive force between
bodies would vary with respect to their spatial orientation, not
their separating distance.

"The latest paper by the authors -- in collaboration with an
experimentalist who is a well-respected specialist in precisely
that kind of measurement -- provides strong evidence in favor of
the validity of the author's original claim," Tsimring said.

Gravitation and Cosmology Editor Kirill Bronnikov agreed.

"The evident merit of the paper by Mikhail Gershteyn et. al. is
the information of a possible new effect, discovered
experimentally -- the effect of anisotropy related to Newton's
constant G," Bronnikov told UPI from Moscow. "So far the
possibility of such an effect has only been discussed
theoretically."

"The authors of this paper make some extraordinary claims in a
legitimate journal," George Spagna, chairman of the physics
department at Randolph-Macon College, told UPI from Ashland, Va.
"But they do not provide enough of their data or theoretical
justification. They must provide much more information to be
convincing."

Other scientists will need to provide "more detailed and
independent experiments to confirm and elaborate the
experimental results obtained in Gershteyn's paper," Lev
Tsimring told UPI. "I cannot exclude that there might be other
ways of explaining this anisotropy within conventional theory,
but I believe that Gershteyn's results are convincing."

--

(Reported by UPI Science Correspondent Mike Martin in Columbia,
Mo.)

Copyright =A9 2002 United Press International. All rights
reserved.







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                            Re: UFO Stats - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:30:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:32:10 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Jones


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:36:31 -0300

Good Morning Stan, all

 >>I believe we have had this discussion before.

 >>There are multiple figures bandied about for genuine UFOs. I
 >>think if you told most sceptical people that 20% of all UFOs
 >>are truly unidentified, they might find that incredulous, and as
 >>for 30%!

 >>From my own personal experience I have found around 90% can be
 >>explained with sufficient research. I know of people with both
 >>higher and lower figures, and very different standards of
 >>research. So I figure the quality of the research carried out
 >>dramatically affects the quantity of trufo's (to use Bruce's
 >>term).

 >>I have found that with Joe Q Public, and with skeptics of you
 >>use the figure of 95 - 97% of UFOs can be explained, you will
 >>get no argument from them, and _also_ you kinda get more respect
 >>as an honest researcher. I guess this is because I do not come
 >>across as a "believer", nor a sKeptic, but an honest to goodness
 >>researcher.

 >>For my guess 20 - 30% of reports being genuine UFOs feels way
 >>too high, and 3 - 5% way too low, ten percent _feels_right_ as
 >>far as I am concerned IMHO.

 >>Without wanting to get into a long drawn out statistical
 >>argument (and I know maths well!) you can use statistics, and
 >>various reports to prove those statistics, to prove whatever
 >>figures you want to, but it is a matter of perception.

 >>I'll explain.

 >>If you was to tell Joe Q Public that 30% of UFO reports are
 >>genuine and they will probably laugh at you. Tell them 95% and
 >>you get a completely different reaction. That is why I use 95 -
 >>97% of UFO's can be explained, it gets public acceptance of a
 >>very difficult subject to get accepted. And the added bonus that
 >>sKeptics don't rant at you as a believer. <g>

 >>Just my tuppence worth.

 >I simply don't understand how you have come to the conclusion as
 >to what the public will accept.

Probably from meeting them face-to-face for a number of years
now.

 >I have given over 700 lectures
 >in 15 countries. In the great majority, I have presented tabular
 >data from BB Special Report 14 in contrast to the Secretary of
 >the Air Force's false claim that even the UNKNOWN 3% could have
 >been explained if more complete observational data had been
 >available. I discuss the findingsof the AIAA UFO subcommittee
 >that 30% of the 117 cases investigated by the U. of Colorado
 >could not be identified. I note that 746 of the 4500 cases noted
 >in 'The UFO Evidence'" could not be unidentified. I also note
 >that, of course, there was a separate Category Insufficient
 >Information in BBSR 14.

 >I come on very strong, document what I say, and have an open Q
 >and A session after each talk. I have had all of 11 hecklers two
 >of whom were drunk. Some audiences were as big as 2,000.

I can't, and won't compete. I don't do lectures, attended many,
but I don't give them. The only thing that I have to say about
lectures is, from my experience, they are attended by the
_converted_ so you can come on as strong as you so choose to,
they already believe, to a large extent, and this is backed up
to some extent by the lack of hecklers you have received??

 >Why in the world should I, or any ufologist, soft soap the
 >truth? I think it is not appropriate to be an apologist
 >ufologist,

Yes and no. Come on strong, like a preacher and it gets you no
where. I don't apologise to people that I speak to, but niether
do I "preach" UFO's and governmental cover-ups to them either.

What I do, is give them (IMHO) more credible, (to Joe Q Public)
figures. Some _believers_ come on too strong, quote ridiculous
claims of cover-ups and conspiracies, and UFO's buzzing the
Whitehouse and these people do more harm to _the_cause_ than
ickle ole moi who quotes figures that I am comfortable with as
being _genuine_ UFO's. (read: alien space craft visitations)

 >so long as one can back up the claims that are made.

The problem with that Stan is sources. Some sources are far more
credible than others, and how in all honesty can you shout about
governmental cover-ups in one breath and then quote from
government reports in another?

 >The same goes for comments that most people don't believe in
 >UFOs or that scientists don't see them. One of the reasons the
 >media has the wrong impressions is that we ufologists have let
 >the skeptics get away with so many false claims. Carl Sagan got
 >away with saying, falsely, that there are no reliable sightings
 >that are interesting..... Balderdash should be called balderdash

I agree one hundred percent, balderdash is balderdash. As for
letting sKeptics "get away with it" well that is down to the
media. As I have previously said, a sKeptics books get media
attention, good documented reports & publications do not. We do
not get fair air-play.

 >I will take BBSR 14 and the Condon report and Dick Hall's work
 >over Allen Hendry's, any time.

 >I don't tell John Q. Public 30% of sightings are UNKNOWNS, I say
 >that according to the AIAA subcommittee 30% of Condon's cases
 >turned out to be UNKNOWNS - and no UFO "Buffs" on the committee.
 >BMI's people found that 35% of the highest quality reports could
 >not be explained. These are _facts_ not opinions. The truth shall
 >set you free, somebody said.

A sixties clich=E9. Truth is in the eye of the beholder, ask any
politician. Bare facts can be mis-reported but still accurate.
If you don't know what I mean by this, then ask Churchill about
Coventry.

You, or anyone, can use whatever stats and figures to prove
whatever they want, that is another _fact_. What people
_believe_ has usually got sod all to do with facts.

 >I have done hundreds of hours of radio and TV programs. No eggs
 >or tomatoes at the lectures or razzberries on the air. If one
 >can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen, said Harry
 >Truman.....

I intend to do no TV shows, and etc. To date I have done one
lecture, and one radio show. But for me, meeting people face-to-
face, and dealing with their sighting reports on a one-to-one
basis is my bread and butter.

And as for the heat I can bear the heat, but I am not interested
in the publicity.


Regards

Sean Jones
AKA No one in particular







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                            Re: UFO Stats - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:33:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:33:40 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Jones



 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?]
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 05:58:42 -0700 (PDT)


 >>In 'The UFO Handbook', p. 22, Allan Hendry found on 1,307 cases:
 >>88.6% IFOs (1,158), 8.6% UFOs (113) and 2.8% exceptions (36).

 >It is my feeling that none of these statistics are very reliable
 >as the cases examined may differ from report to report as will
 >the depth of analysis, and possibly the criteria for
 >categorizing an unknown. The range from 8.6% to 30% classified
 >as unknown or UFO may just give us a general indication. In
 >sighting numbers, this is still a high figure.

The quality of the research/investigation bears upon the
sighting being resolved as well methinks.

 >Also of interest is would be some indication of what percentage
 >of cases are reported. I believe that Stan asked audiences how
 >many had seen a UFO having them raise hands, then followed this
 >with how many had reported their sighting with a much lesser
 >number of hands raised.

I agree one hundred percent. People still fear ridicule for
reporting UFO sightings. I have yet to figure out why with
today's more accepting standards.

Regards

Sean








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                            Re: UFO Stats - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:46:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:35:48 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Jones


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 9:50:11 -0400

Good Morning Jan

 >>From my own personal experience I have found around 90% can be
 >>explained with sufficient research. I know of people with both
 >>higher and lower figures, and very different standards of
 >>research. So I figure the quality of the research carried out
 >>dramatically affects the quantity of trufo's (to use Bruce's
 >>term).

 >Again, I don't believe this 90% figure. Prove it!

Er, how? I said

 >>From my own personal experience I have found around 90% can be
 >>explained with sufficient research.

Let me highlight, "from my own experience".

In the cases that I have personally investigated here in the UK,
I have "resolved" around 90%, some took time, others only took
adequate research.

 >Most UFO
 >reports are indeed not very interesting or lacking in certain
 >information which might give an explanation, but a look at USAF
 >explanations many are "not inconsistent with a... (balloon,
 >aircraft, etc.)" That is hardly an explanation.

 >About the best that can be said is that about half of UFO USAF
 >reports have a _proven_ explanation, that is someone has taken
 >the time and trouble to run down an explanation. Others are
 >"probably or possible". One should look closely at explanation
 >in USAF files which are listed as "balloons".

 >>For my guess 20 - 30% of reports being genuine UFOs feels way
 >>too high, and 3 - 5% way too low, ten percent _feels_right_ as
 >>far as I am concerned IMHO.

 >Guess! Yes that is the way to put. It is a feeling, a guess and
 >nothing more. Framesands!

Sorry I am not familiar with the word "Framesands" could you
explain please.

 >Without getting into a long and drawn out explanation why most
 >UFO stats are bull-butter and misapplication of statistical
 >analysis, let me just comment briefly here. "Insufficient
 >information" is not an explanation!

I agree one hundred percent. Insufficient information does not
mean we can include the case in "unknown" either. Insufficient
information is exactly that, insufficient information to resolve
the case one way or the other.

 >In official stats, it has a
 >constantly changing meaning. What even constitutes a 'case' is
 >constantly changing. "Not a case, information only" seems like
 >another fudge factor. Especially, once they are reviewed and
 >found that some cases were indeed reported through official
 >channels, by USAF or other government personnel, and in
 >accordance with existing directives at the time.

Insufficient information is quite simple in my eyes. You have a
report in which there is inadequate information, coupled with
inadequate research. The former is usually caused by the latter.

 >One might say that the vast majority of cases are readily
 >explainable. The percentage of interesting cases is about 5% to
 >as maybe high as 10%. That is not unusual even in laboratory
 >controlled experiments. (Most data acquired in such experiments
 >under controlled condition are discarded.)

This almost sounds like you agree with what I said?

 >See Brad Sparks' first pass on re-evaluation of Project Blue
 >Book cases ("Information only" cases are included here.)

 >http://198.63.56.18/pdf/bluebookunknowns-v1.pdf

 >My estimate, again, _estimate_, based on review of about 1500 US
 >AF cases in detail from various years is that 2,000+ US AF
 >Project Blue Book cases are "unknown".

And out of the 2000+ cases was good research carried out?

Don't get me wrong, I do not mean to diss you or your knock your
hard work. But I abhor people researchers who "fudge" the
figures with "insufficient information" to get a higher number
of "unknowns". Insufficient research does not an unknown make.


Regards

Sean







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              Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Acres

From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:24:03 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:42:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'? - Acres


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:24:52 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:27:05 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >>>From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 00:17:14 +1000
 >>>Subject: Re: Are Photos And Videotape 'Evidence'?

 >But this video started off as being highly questionable: the
 >ostensible witness who provided it, the girl in the video,
 >claimed that she didn't want her name used because she didn't
 >want her boyfriend to know that she had taken this helicopter
 >tour of NYC with (gulp) Another Guy.

 ><LOL>They must think we are dopes. All you need is a little
 >stop frame capability and you can see her face clearly!!! Oh,
 >well, another romance shot in the foot.

Yes Bruce I agree that is pretty weak! But it _could_ just be a
pathetic excuse because she doesn't want her name associated
with it for fear of unwanted attention! Barbara S of New york
may not be so dopey after all?

 >Incidently, the Sci Fi channel never provided any useful info on
 >how they happened to get that video and it was strongly hinted
 >to Bob Kiviat (of Alien Autopsy fame) when I asked him to check,
 >that this was a "created" video at the time Sci Fi was promoting
 >its phrase "Sci Fi Happens".

Agreed Bruce! They do seem cagey! There is not much about it on
their website & I sent an email only to get a robot response to
search the archives & FAQ's! Which I did, but I couldn't find
much! I did see this though:

http://bboard.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/1966/614/4

the guy claims he's had the footage analysed & it checks out as
likely to be genuine? Sci FI could also be afraid of backlash so
they've been deliberately vague? I'm just trying to look at it
from all perspectives! As Sherlock Holmes said: Once you
eliminate all possible explainations, whatever remains, no
matter how improbable, must be the truth! (Or seemingly so! :)

 >Yeah... fiction can happen anytime!

Sure does! But maybe this one could warrent further
investigation just to be sure?

Allow me to delve into a little sci fi myself here: It's very
strange the way it is transparent! Could that be due to the
speed? Or could they have switched off their cloaking ability?
Also, It does have possible alien forms in it!

I thought I saw a face in the last frame before it swerves past
the Chopper, (I have a very good eye for detail), so I played
around with the lighting etc, but have not altered it otherwise.

Someone with better software & skills may be able to define it
better than me, it's quite vague, but have a look for a laugh
anyway! My friend put it on his website at:

http://www.cairns.net.au/~tims/alienpics.html

The other pic he has there is quite interesting also!







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                           Re: UFO Stats - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:28:34 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:38:17 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Ledger

 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:28:44 -0300

<snip>

 >At the end of my 'Flying Saucers ARE Real' lecture I normally
 >ask as the first question in in the Q and A session "How many
 >people here believe they have seen what I would consider to be a
 >flying saucer (I defined my terms at the beginnning).

 >The hands go up slowly.

 >As soon as I see 2 in the same part of the hall I will start
 >counting out loud, so that audience members will know there are
 >many sighters out there. Typically it is about 10% of the
 >crowd... in general audiences. Much higher, if it is a workshop.

 >Then I ask "How many of you reported your sighting?". About 90%
 >of the hands go down.

 >If there are some left, I will ask "how many of you were in the
 >military when the sighting occured?" and then "do you want to
 >tell us about it?" Get some very fascinating reports... some
 >only told to me at the book table afterward.


Hi Stan,

Last Friday night I posed the same question at the Shag Harbour
2nd Annual gathering for the support of the Chappell Hill museum
there and got about 13 out of two hundred plus me and Chris
Styles.

There were two others out there that didn't raise their hands
who I know had sightings because they told me so earlier.

Then, afterward, three more came forward who admitted that they
hadn't raised their hands plus one ex-RCAF  fellow who gave me
his name and number and said..."call me". He was at Bacarro.

Excluding him that's twenty out of two hundred. Your typical 10
percent. Only two of those reported their sightings and they
were the two Shag Harbour witnesses present. Even I didn't
report mine - nor did Chris.

FWIW

Don Ledger







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              Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz -

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:26:44 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:40:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz -


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 21:30:42 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz

 >>From: Scott Caput <scaput@bellsouth.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:00:03 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Harmless Halo Around The Sun Causes A Buzz

 >I can imagine what  would do if you didn't see those things
 >often enough, kind of like the Aurora Borealis here, not very
 >common and it gets noticed when it happens. Once one was
 >reported as a fire (reddish glow behind a hill) up on the lower
 >end of the Wenatchee National Forest-by a lookout.

Hi, G.T., Scott and List:

If any investigators wonder whether an aurora is now occuring or
has happened in the last day or two, check out this site for a
satellite pix of aurora activity in the last 15 minutes:

http://sec.noaa.gov/SWN/index.html


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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               Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:45:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:42:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Velez


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:17:37 -0400
 >Subject: Re: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

 >>From: Conway Costigan <c_costigan@canada.com>
 >>To: canufo@yahoogroups.com
 >>Date: 18 May 2002 09:55:08 -0700
 >>Subject: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

<snip>

 >For the record, I know of no cases of UFOs seen over the White
 >House in 1953 or 1954. Or 1952.

 >Radar target were detected over restricted areas of Washington,
 >D. C. in 1952.

 >There are no photographs of UFOs over the White House that I am
 >aware of.

 >The one photograph shown over and over again of the Capitol
 >building with a series of lights over it taken by a German
 >tourist, was conclusive demonstrated to be lens flares, a common
 >photographic phenomenon.

 >That does not stop this picture from being used over and over
 >again in various news stories.

 >No systemic search of newspapers within 100 miles of Washington,
 >D. C. has been made for reported visual sightings. Such would be
 >an interesting project.

Hi Jan,

I think Conway was referring to the "UFO" overflights of
Washington DC on those two consecutive week-ends in 1952. But
the reason I'm writing is because I am unfamiliar with the 'lens
flare' explanation for that famous picture of "UFOs" over the
capitol. Regardless of whether the photo taken by the German
tourist was lens flares or not, that set of sightings is as
close to a formal "Landing on the White house lawn" as we're
ever going to get.

About two weeks ago one of the List-members contributed a post
about an old documentary called "UFO: The True Story Of Flying
Saucers." (Available from MGM Home Video - original film was
released in 1956) Anyone wanting to see and hear a 'detailed'
report/reenactment of the 1952 overflights of the nations
capitol would do well to invest in this videotape. The actors
are obviously amateurs, (they are so stiff) but the facts of
several major pre-1956 UFO cases along with interviews of actual
witnesses and participants makes this a 'must see' for any one
interested in the subject.

The part of the documentary that covers the 1952 sightings
centers around the (then) Pentagon public information officer
Albert Chop. His testimony is very compelling stuff if not the
making of a de-facto open and shut case for the existence of
*UFOs.

Our governments' first official (although secret) UFO
investigation project was "Sign." The findings of the project
Sign group were that UFOs represented 'extraterrestrial'
vehicles/craft. I think that was the first and only 'honest'
report we've ever gotten out of a government agency in regard to
UFOs. The fact that the staff of project Sign was summarily
sacked and replaced by 'others' (Project Grudge) shortly after
issuing their findings, should not take away one iota of
significance from the original findings of the project Sign
group. Just about every thing that came after that was just so
much 'orchestrated' propaganda.

Our own military has been aware of the reality of UFOs and their
off-world origin for decades. Way back in 1952 the UFOnauts came
as close to actually landing on the Whitehouse lawn as can be.
Those sightings and surrounding events are among the most
important and significant in the history of ufology. Everybody
should take the time to thoroughly familiarize themselves with
all the details.

At least treat yourself to a copy of the 1956 "UFO" documentary.
It's in glorious black and white! A ufological 'film noir
extraordinairre.'  :)

PS- How come no petition banner link at Project 1947 website Jan?
Hmmm? If the petition is, as you posted, such a 'brilliant' idea, how
about helping me to spread the word?  :)

The same goes for every other UFO related website operator
within earshot. Please... post a link banner to the
International UFO petition from your site. Contact me privately
and I will gladly provide a banner graphic for you to use.


Warm regards,

John Velez







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   May > May 22

               Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:48:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 09:33:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Warren


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:17:37 -0400
 >Subject: Re: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

 >>From: Conway Costigan <c_costigan@canada.com>
 >>To: canufo@yahoogroups.com
 >>Date: 18 May 2002 09:55:08 -0700
 >>Subject: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

<snip>

 >For the record, I know of no cases of UFOs seen over the White
 >House in 1953 or 1954. Or 1952.

 >Radar target were detected over restricted areas of Washington,
 >D. C. in 1952.

 >There are no photographs of UFOs over the White House that I am
 >aware of.

 >The one photograph shown over and over again of the Capitol
 >building with a series of lights over it taken by a German
 >tourist, was conclusive demonstrated to be lens flares, a common
 >photographic phenomenon.

 >That does not stop this picture from being used over and over
 >again in various news stories.

<snip>

Hello Jan, Conway and "The Gang,"

Here is a link to a copy of "The Washington Post" dated Monday,
July 28, 1952: http://www.rense.com/general8/flew.htm

The headline reads: 'Saucer Outran Jet, Pilot reveals'

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Frank







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                Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:11:16 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 09:36:55 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:00:40 -0300
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
 >>>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:19:36 CST
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 ><snip>

 >>According to your sample of 374 Canadian UFO reports last year
 >>two were from people who described themselves as amateur
 >>astronomers. Let's see, that's.0054%.

 >Sorry, Bob. That is .54% - but then what is a factor of 100
 >between friends?

Stan:

Yup, I guess that I tried to make the point twice.

  <snip>

 >I spoke to a few hundred amateurs at Griffith Observatory many
 >years ago. Almost 20% admitted having had a sighting. I think
 >only one had reported it.

Not surprising. Isn't the number of reports vs sighting kicked
around, maybe from Hynek years ago, 1 in ten? 1 in 20 for
amateurs might be close. The Herb survey may even have asked
that question, but since I never saw the detailed results I
wonder what they were?

<snip>

 >Could it be that most people especially astronomers who sound
 >off anti-UFO are loathe to do any digging about UFOs at all?

People who have made up their mind about something, whether
through experience or acquired information might very well not
be interesting in wasting their time.

<snip>

 >A 25% response to a survey is generally considered very good.
 >Where is the beef?

Believers and sighters would be more likely to answer the
survey. Followup was done for the smaller experienced observers'
groups but not for the larger League group, maybe it was too
costly, I don't know.

Note also the response from the high caliber readers of Research
and Development Magazine They too see UFOs.

Yes, "more highly qualified" people do report seeing UFOs.
Hendry's CUFOS study or Hynek, I forget which, also showed that
they report what later turn out to be IFOs, too.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:11:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 09:39:21 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young


 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >Morning Bob, Chris, everyone else

 ><huge snip to cut to the chase>

 >>But most professionals I've talked to were amateurs before they
 >>entered the field, some with lifelong interests in astronomy,
 >>often times starting in childhood. This claim that the people
 >>most knowledgeable and experienced about the sky, professional
 >>and amateur astronomers, somehow have never managed to noticed
 >>the alien starships buzzing about the saucer skywatch crowds is,
 >>to say the least, amusing.

 >Bob, just a question, but using your reasoning, which I see as
 >basically OK <g> _might_ the reason amateurs, or professional
 >astronomers are not seeing UFO's is because they are looking
 >further out than out atmosphere?

Hi, Sean:

What about the things most close to many moving UFO reported,
meteors, satellites or even aurorae? I get your point, which
could be true about objects being observed through 'scopes, but
there are enough other interesting astronomical events occurring
within the atmosphere that I find it hard to believe they
wouldn't go unnoticed.

 >I am reasonably confidant than something like 99.999% of
 >reported UFO's are within our atmosphere

I assume that here you're talking about UFOs as remaining
puzzles after IFOs have been elliminated. Astronomical UFOs such
as planets and stars certainly represent a larger percentage
than (Stan, are you reading this?) one thousand of one percent
of the total reports.

This question is an interesting one, though. I think the key
point is that amateur astronomers are deliberately looking up in
the sky much more often than the average person. And they have
some knowledge which would presumeably rule out most of the
common IFOs.

<snip>

 >I have been _doing_ UFO research for over fifteen
 >years, and it was only a few years ago I saw my first UFO. My
 >reasoning for the _delay_ wasn't for lack of looking, but
 >through my experience, I could identify pretty much most things
 >in the sky. One must remember something like 95 - 97% of
 >reported UFO's can be explained with sufficient research.

 >It's just that it's the last few that remain _unexplained_ that
 >interest us mortals <g>

Can't argue with that.


Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 09:41:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 09:41:13 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:37:53 -0300
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >>>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 ><snip>

 >Let's see now, Blue Book Special Report 14 had 20% UNKNOWNS, The
 >University of Colorado Study had 30% UNKNOWNS. In Dick Hall's
 >'UFO Evidence 1' it was 16%... so what is the basis for 95-97%
 >explainable - (3-5% Unknown)???

Hi, again, Stan, Sean:

Then there was Hynek's early 70s study done at CUFOS of Blue
Book which lowered the unknowns by 10% to 5.8% (The Hynek UFO
Report, Dell, 1977). Then Allan Hendry's study while a full-time
investigator at CUFOS in the late 70s with 8.6%, but only 1.5%
"best cases" (the Air Force had claimed only 1.9% best cases).

Interestingly, as Hendry gained more experience his ability to
solve the IFOs got better.  CUFOS experience in 1977, according
to Hynek (International UFO Reporter, Sept 1978) was 90% IFO.
This went up the subsequent year: January 1978 - 90%; February -
98%; March - 99%; April - 100%; May - 95%; June - 97%; July
94%.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                           Re: UFO Stats - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:41:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 09:49:34 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Warren


 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 23:33:37 -0400
 >From: James Alexander <james-m-alexander@rogers.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >>Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:36:31 -0300

<snip>

 >>I have done hundreds of hours of radio and TV programs. No eggs
 >>or tomatoes at the lectures or razzberries on the air. If one
 >>can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen, said Harry
 >>Truman.....

 >I'm not much of an investigator compared to youself and some
 >others here. But I've been noticing this debate for a while. The
 >actual percentage of sightings which could be true 'unknowns'
 >puts in mind the whole credibility issue.

 >Lets face it, we all know this subject has a reputation of being
 >the topic of choice for 'Kooks'. To make a long story short.....

 >I think that you, Chris Rutkowski, Errol and others here are on
 >the right track in turning that reputation around.

 >I personally think its insulting when some well-known scientest
 >spouts off with "why would an alien come all this way only to
 >make contact with a bunch of kooks", the implication that anyone
 >who has a sighting is a "Nut".

 >If someone who's not exceptionally brilliant (such as an average
 >guy like me) who has trouble with college level calculus can
 >admit that theres a difference between an accurately reported
 >sighting and the silliness, why can't someone with a Ph.D
 >realise the same thing?


Hello James, Stan and The Gang,

James, the subject to which you refer to as having a "reputation
of being the topic of choice for 'Kooks", just for the record,
was the 'topic of choice' of the most powerful men on the planet
over fifty years ago! That is to say those 'kooks', i.e., the
men that ran our government and our military, not mention top
scientists of the time etc., were the ones that chose to involve
themselves with this topic.

In addition, if you look at the resumes of the founding members
of NICAP and APRO, as well as a good portion of the listers
i.e., Stan, Bruce, and Dick to name a few, you'll find that
their credentials are more then satisfactory to elevate them
above the realm of 'Kook-dom'.

Moreover by our government's own admission, they chose to
debunk, discredit and 'explain away' sightings and witnesses of
such events, which in turn was/is responsible for this
particular mindset - i.e., that Ufology is the chosen topic of
'kooks'.

Their efforts obviously were successful, as we still argue about
the percentages of authentic sightings, knowns and unknowns,
etc., which I equate to asking "How many people visited the
Empire State Building when they were in New York?"! The point
is, that the Empire State Building is there, it exists, and who
cares how many people chose to see it!


Best Regards,

Frank







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                Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:52:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 09:52:10 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Young


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 22:15:54 -0700
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:05:04 EDT
 >>>Subject: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

  <snip>

 >>>But most professionals I've talked to were amateurs before they
 >>>entered the field, some with lifelong interests in astronomy,
 >>>often times starting in childhood. This claim that the people
 >>>most knowledgeable and experienced about the sky, professional
 >>>and amateur astronomers, somehow have never managed to noticed
 >>>the alien starships buzzing about the saucer skywatch crowds is,
 >>>to say the least, amusing.

 >I wonder how many get "dissed" as Satillites or Airplanes at
 >such meetings. Also it is just not P.C. to say there are UFO's
 >to a large part of the astronomy community amateur or otherwise,
 >you'd get your Plossils takenaway and your red filtered
 >everready flashlight broken ala the opening scene of the old TV
 >show 'Branded'.

Hi, G.T.:

Yeah, at most places, except maybe Chris's club. That would
depend upon the ratio of believers vs. skeptics. On the other
hand, the surveys were anonymous.

 >>It's just that it's the last few that remain _unexplained_ that
 >>interest us mortals <g>

 >Yes especially the shiny mettallic ones with lights around the
 >rim of a disk. That move silently from a dead stop. With a total
 >of five witnesses. Without so much as a pelican sqawk.

Unless it was advertising something. What was the size of it in
the sky, how long did you see it and how did it disappear?


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                        Re: NASA UFO Secrets - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 18:00:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 10:25:19 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA UFO Secrets - Velez


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:45:39 +0000
 >Subject: Re: NASA UFO Secrets

<snip>

Hi Eleanor,

You wrote to Mr. Oberg:

 >NASA owes its citizen-owners more than denials.

 >I have a great deal of respect for NASA - one of my former
 >engineering classmates holds a high position in your agency and
 >I think the world of his abilities, and I'm saddened that an
 >agency born under such terrific ideals, including putting aside
 >the rigid secrecy which the military is forced to operate under,
 >is now obviously witholding information that belongs to the
 >citizens of this planet.

Just to throw a little more wood on the fire... not very many
people are aware of the dramatic change-over at NASA from
civilian to former-military personnel. Especially in top-level
positions over the last 15 to 20 years.

Management and projects at NASA are littered with military
payloads and staffed by ex-Pentagon, ex-military. NASA used to
be more of a civilian agency.

Now I wonder if that too was just an illusion.

The fact remains that NASA has become much more militarized in
its organizational structure than this lowly peon is comfortable
with.

There were several references - besides the one you quoted -
from 'Disclosure' witnesses that relate directly to the
withholding of important information by NASA and it's
contractors - e.g. doctoring of lunar images at JPL in
California.

Good luck with Mr. Oberg.


Regards,

John Velez







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                       Joe Daniels & J. A. Hennessey?

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:01:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 12:40:35 -0400
Subject: Joe Daniels & J. A. Hennessey?


Hello, all,

I am currently researching a character called J(ulian?) J. A.
Hennessey, and I found what may be references to him in a post
from Joe Daniels on the UFO Updates list at:

www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m27-003.shtml

I have tried to email the author but his address now seems to be
invalid. Joe, if you are reading this, please drop me a line. If
anyone knows his current address, please can you pass this
message on to him for me in case he is no longer subscribed.

Regards,

Joe McGonagle







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                          Re: Bad Astronomy - Plait

From: Phil Plait <badastro@badastronomy.com>
Date: 21 May 2002 18:11:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 13:53:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad Astronomy - Plait


[Non-Subscriber Post]

 >Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 07:32:26 -0400
 >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
 >Subject: Re: Bad Astronomy
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

Hello! You said:

 >"Never" is a dangerous word. I've fallen into its trap a couple
 >of times myself. It is true that amateur astronomers are not
 >constantly reporting UFOs, but how many AA's do you need to see
 >one to convince you that the people who reported them may
 >possibly have seen the real thing?

First, I have received a few e-mails about the use of the word
"never", and I was wrong to use it. I changed it, and added a
note about it to that page.

Second, you can show me a list of tens of thousands of amateurs
who saw something they cannot identify, and that does not make
these reports "the real thing".

Numbers are not conclusive; the evidence must stand on its own
despite how many people report it. Certainly, the number of
people reporting weighs heavily towards 'something' having
ocurred, but it does not lend any credence to what it was.

Hundreds or even thousands of people saw something at "the
miracle of Fatima", but what was it? The face of Mary, or mass
hysteria, or simply the Sun? Certainly something happened there,
but what was it?

That's my basic point. Individual anecdotes, while interesting,
are generally inconclusive. Massive reports are veen more
interesting, but without concrete evidence they are little
better than individual anecdotes.

Thanks for writing,

Phil

*    *    *    *    *    The Bad Astronomer    *    *    *    *

Phil Plait                    badastro@badastronomy.com
The Bad Astronomy Web Page: http://www.badastronomy.com






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                          Re: UFO Stats - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:29:01 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:46:06 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Friedman


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:28:34 -0300
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >>Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:28:44 -0300

 ><snip>

 >>At the end of my 'Flying Saucers ARE Real' lecture I normally
 >>ask as the first question in in the Q and A session "How many
 >>people here believe they have seen what I would consider to be a
 >>flying saucer (I defined my terms at the beginnning).

 >>The hands go up slowly.

 >>As soon as I see 2 in the same part of the hall I will start
 >>counting out loud, so that audience members will know there are
 >>many sighters out there. Typically it is about 10% of the
 >>crowd... in general audiences. Much higher, if it is a workshop.

 >>Then I ask "How many of you reported your sighting?". About 90%
 >>of the hands go down.

 >>If there are some left, I will ask "how many of you were in the
 >>military when the sighting occured?" and then "do you want to
 >>tell us about it?" Get some very fascinating reports... some
 >>only told to me at the book table afterward.

 >Last Friday night I posed the same question at the Shag Harbour
 >2nd Annual gathering for the support of the Chappell Hill museum
 >there and got about 13 out of two hundred plus me and Chris
 >Styles.

 >There were two others out there that didn't raise their hands
 >who I know had sightings because they told me so earlier.

 >Then, afterward, three more came forward who admitted that they
 >hadn't raised their hands plus one ex-RCAF  fellow who gave me
 >his name and number and said..."call me". He was at Bacarro.

 >Excluding him that's twenty out of two hundred. Your typical 10
 >percent. Only two of those reported their sightings and they
 >were the two Shag Harbour witnesses present. Even I didn't
 >report mine - nor did Chris.


Don, it is good to get confirmation.Sounds like a great crowd
for a small town. I had better add that I have never spoken in
that town so could not have had any influence on the audience. I
should add that at a couple of dinners before management club
lectures, I had spouses tell me about sightings they had never
told their spouses about.

  "They would think I was some kind of a nut" is the most often cited reason
for not reporting".

Stan Friedman






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                      Re: Searching For Rudolph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 18:22:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:41:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Searching For Rudolph - Velez


 >From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:09:49 +0100 (BST)
 >Subject: Re: Searching For Rudolph

 >>From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
 >>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:31:48 +0000 (GMT)
 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:28:04 -0500
 >>Subject: Searching For Rudolph

 >>Dear list,

 >>I am currently trying to track down the earliest
 >>source for an alleged teleportation/time travel
 >>case. The incident involved one Rudolph Fentz, who
 >>is said to have jumped from 1876 to 1950 at the age
 >>of 29.

 >Dear List,

 >I finally managed to complete a detailed report on this
 >incident. The report is far too long to reproduce here, but I
 >would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who helped
 >me track down vital bibliography during my research.

 >The conclusion was rather foregone on the outset ("Rudolph
 >Fentz" was _not_ transported through time from the nineteenth
 >century to the twentieth) but the study may prove interesting or
 >illustrative to anyone who is compiling a list of similar
 >incidents (Lang, Lerch and so on). It also ties in with Ralph
 >Holland/Rolf Telano, the 1950s contactee.

 >Sincerely,

 >Chris Aubeck

Hi Chris,

I'm not sure how this may 'tie in' with the cases you are
checking out but... a more recent example of somebody who claims
to be from 'another time' is Al Bielek of 'Philadelphia
Experiment' fame. (Or 'infamy' depending on your point of view.
;)

Al claims to be a 'walk-in.' Someone whose soul has been
'displaced' by the soul of another. The soul he claims is now in
possession of his body is one belonging to a WW II US Navy
sailor. One that was allegedly a part of the Philadelphia
Experiment back in 1943. (? not sure date) According to the
story told by Bielek, a whole ship along with its full
compliment of crew was allegedly made to disappear/ become
invisible. There is a 'time-travel' component/story connected to
the incident as well. Fits in with the kind of thing you
mentioned above. (Fentz)

In all candor, I feel the same way about Al bielek's story as
I'm sure some people feel about mine. <g> I was just curious if
this was one of the cases you may have looked into and what, if
anything, _you_ made of it all.

Talk about 'on the fringe.'  Lord help me if _this_ is what
passes for 'entertainment' for me now-a-days. Weird but
interesting stuff.  :)

I will check out your report.


Regards,

John Velez







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                            Re: UFO Stats - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 01:04:09 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:50:04 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Young


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 9:50:11 -0400

 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 19:16:51 +0100
 >>Subject: UFO Stats [was: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?]

<snip>

 >Without getting into a long and drawn out explanation why most
 >UFO stats are bull-butter and misapplication of statistical
 >analysis, let me just comment briefly here. "Insufficient
 >information" is not an explanation!

Hi, Jan:

Your point is well taken that as far as trying to really compare
all of these different studies and statistical exercises, they
usually had slightly different definitions or criteria.  It's
often hard to compare, particularly after one goes into the
methodologies that were used.

But, if "Insufficient Information" is not enough for an
explanation, is it also not enough to make a UFO (a la Hynek's
definition: one that has resisted a competent investigation)?


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                     Strieber Has More Close Encounters

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 04:35:58 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:48:33 -0400
Subject: Strieber Has More Close Encounters


Source: Whitley Strieber's Unknown Country, May 18, 2002,

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=1552

Stig

***

New Whitley's Journal Entry

18-May-2002

Whitley writes, "After all these years, I have had another
series of close encounters. I still don't know what actually
happens during these experiences, and I probably would not have
reported these, except that one of them involves a warning that
has come to seem terrifyingly pertinent."

To find out what that warning was, read Whitley's Journal, click
here:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/







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               Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 11:37:49 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:06:55 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Ledger


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:11:19 EDT
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:51:26 +0100
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

<snip>

 >>Bob, just a question, but using your reasoning, which I see as
 >>basically OK <g>_might_ the reason amateurs, or professional
 >>astronomers are not seeing UFO's is because they are looking
 >>further out than out atmosphere?

 >What about the things most close to many moving UFO reported,
 >meteors, satellites or even aurorae? I get your point, which
 >could be true about objects being observed through 'scopes, but
 >there are enough other interesting astronomical events occurring
 >within the atmosphere that I find it hard to believe they
 >wouldn't go unnoticed.

 >>I am reasonably confidant than something like 99.999% of
 >>reported UFO's are within our atmosphere

 >I assume that here you're talking about UFOs as remaining
 >puzzles after IFOs have been elliminated. Astronomical UFOs such
 >as planets and stars certainly represent a larger percentage
 >than (Stan, are you reading this?) one thousand of one percent
 >of the total reports.

 >This question is an interesting one, though. I think the key
 >point is that amateur astronomers are deliberately looking up in
 >the sky much more often than the average person. And they have
 >some knowledge which would presumeably rule out most of the
 >common IFOs.

 ><snip>

 >>I have been _doing_ UFO research for over fifteen
 >>years, and it was only a few years ago I saw my first UFO. My
 >>reasoning for the _delay_ wasn't for lack of looking, but
 >>through my experience, I could identify pretty much most things
 >>in the sky. One must remember something like 95 - 97% of
 >>reported UFO's can be explained with sufficient research.

 >>It's just that it's the last few that remain _unexplained_ that
 >>interest us mortals <g>

 >Can't argue with that.

Hi Bob and Sean,

The last is exactly the point. But saying beforehand that 97
percent "will" be explained is presumptuous and as argued by
others here perhaps not the case. 3 percent as unidentifiable
doesn't was with me. If we used Bob as an example, his immediate
interpretation of any UFO reported on these sites is a meteor,
balloon, auroras - which makes me wonder if he's ever seen them
- and lens flare or finally, the witness was mistaken on every
point-usually without any real knowledge of the case. Sadly this
is/was inherent in most of the studies done by other 'experts'
over the year.

And here's something else to consider. Some were explained - by
the USAF - particularly in the late 40s and early 50s..as
extraterrestrial. "Explained" can be a double edged sword. The
inevitable denial by the brass - of what their experts turned up
and the conclusions they drew - has no validity. It was self
serving, erroneous and political. "This can't be-take another
look. That will give us time to maneuver." I wonder if when we
relate to an audiance that only 5-10 percent are unknowns but
that 90-95 percent are solved, whether we aren't encouraging
witnesses to remain mute.

Who wants to be thought of as being that gullible that they
would risk being part of the majority  who are so "inept' that
they would report a 60 x 10 foot object as a UFO when it was
obviously 3mm x 3mm Venus. My rate has climbed to 30. I think
the witnesses are smarter than most debunkers. Judging by the
explanations I've seen over the last 10 years - there are some
truly inept people out there-those who haven't the sense to even
read a report before spouting nonesense.

We should ere on the side of caution, but not stupidity.

Best,

Don Ledger
30 percent certain I exist







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #365

From: "mail.snowhill.com" <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:01:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:13:23 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #365


Alfred's Odd Ode #365 (Tuesday May 21, 2002)

Doctor Morty lives again! Remember him as you pretend you took
no sides when he disclosed... his fear to us on Errol's show.
Invited, he would tell his story. There was no reward or glory,
just a smear by those confused by vicious slanders _I've_
refused. Not that he _expected_ praise, he's just dismayed at
your "disgrace." He had some time with all of us that you
betrayed and won't discuss.

He was with us _years_, my friend, but you had "cant" I would
contend. You condemned him without thinking, without so much as
even blinking. Some locked ranks and shut him out without a care
what he's about. He was one of ours dispatched to help pro-
active effort crash? Those that can't see other venues, the "out
of sorts" without their menus, these must have it their own
way... or make the rest, then, rue the day.

Gripple hauling, he's returned (I guess you'd thought Canal
Steet burned?), and he's been busy "prosecuting" all the claims
you've been disputing. ...And we had him, he was ours, but he
slipped between our fingers, hard, when you practiced war on him
(for specious reasons I contend). ...Seems he might be what, I
feel, was a righteous, real deal, as there's interest from some
_principals_ most agree are more than sensible. And on Jim's
"Gripple" I sustain more truth per drop than's been maintained
by whispered words or ill campaigns employed to cant a Lister's
brain.

JIM HAD CLAIMED a team of "Doctors," (learned men and able
proctors) made some mention that his *plight* was studied by
these men of "sight." There was _such_ a ballyhoo, UpDates
rocked (and shut down too!), and wounded feelings were a fact,
as folks were blown from UpDates track. It now seems certain one
among us, one that's shown some calmer promise, one that most
would (sure!) agree is competent and "non-diseased", has been in
contact with this team... of medicos. This lends some steam! Who
he is remains untold for confidential reasons, Holmes. But he is
there (or was it she?), and _credit_ goes to Jim, it seems!

JIM HAD CLAIMED he had a tape, a true and righteous thing not
faked, that helped to open doors we've feared we'd never bare --
  doors strange and queer! It was roundly called a hoax and
mocked, insulted... made a joke, but it now seems deserving
credit, a second look, a better edit, as his story's caught the
eye of one whos *waves* can fill the sky! He has checked out
Morty's tale... who "he" is? It's _not_ Art Bell. It seems Jim's
going on the show... the 6th of June. I told you so.

JIM HAD CLAIMED he'd been abducted by some force not un-
  reluctant to impose its will on him -- a scary story, weird and
grim. It was branded a "construction", a plagiarized contrived
"destruction"... built to "bring the study down" already limping
and unsound? It now seems abduction's "Dean" has weighed in on
the problem's mean. And _he_ thinks that Jim's sincere, and TOOK
his case (oh my... oh dear!). It's not _my_ place to tell you,
friend, who's "interested" in 'Docca Jim,' but he has shown for
many _years_ that he's beyond your smears and sneers.

Now I don't know what I've found out... is truly what it's all
about, but I suspect that Jim has done... what he has said (and
by the ton)! Three heavy-weights have waded in? Those that
scoffed, prepare your chins! There is more that has been
_missed_ if these men think it might exist. If I'm wrong, I'll
say "mea culpa", double-slap my face like Culkin, apologize in
verse and prose, and say that "you" were on the nose. But I
don't think I'm wrong at all, convictions "soar and cleave" --
  my call!

  Lehmberg@snowhill.com

<!>

~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







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                      Bryant - FOIA Request - 05-22-02

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:40:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:16:33 -0400
Subject: Bryant - FOIA Request - 05-22-02


To: inquire@nara.gov

TO: Archivist of the United States
     U. S. National Archives and Records Administration
     700 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
     Washington, DC  20408

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
       3518 Martha Custis Drive
       Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: May 22, 2002

1. Reference: Your entire NARA case file on my freedom-of-
information appeal dated Sept. 14, 2001, by which I seek total
declassification and disclosure of the July 17, 1947, memorandum
of the Intelligence Advisory Board (plus the memo's various
tabbed enclosures).

2. Under terms of the U. S. Freedom of Information Act, I hereby
request that you photo-copy the entire contents of the NARA FOIA
case file referenced in my paragraph 1, above, and that you send
the photo-copy to me as soon as possible -- said contents to
include all such NARA-generated and NARA-received records as
intra-/inter-agency correspondence, minutes of meetings,
records-review tasking documents, transmittal slips, memoranda
for record, records- review/declassification SOP's, memoranda of
telephone conversations, e-mail messages, briefing
charts/outlines/talking points, legal opinions, administrative
blank-form entries, personnel-interview transcripts, mail-
address lists (including e-addresses), temporary-duty reports,
and records-storage logs.

3. Since I make this request on behalf of the public's interest
in knowing all the behind-the-scenes activity and information
pertaining to your development and processing of the referenced
case file, I ask that you waive all records-search fees incident
to your fulfillment of this request.



                               LARRY W. BRYANT
                               Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
                               Citizens Against UFO Secrecy

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq.

Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief of http://www.ufocity.com

Ryan S. Wood, Chief Researcher for http://www.majesticdocuments.com






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               Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 21:03:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:19:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded - Bowden


 >From: Conway Costigan <c_costigan@canada.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: 20 May 2002 15:01:38 -0700
 >Subject: Re: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

 >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:17:37 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

 >>The one photograph shown over and over again of the Capitol
 >>building with a series of lights over it taken by a German
 >>tourist, was conclusive demonstrated to be lens flares, a common
 >>photographic phenomenon.

 >>That does not stop this picture from being used over and over
 >>again in various news stories.

 ><snip>

 >If the photograph you are referring to is the one that was
 >splashed over US newspapers was derived from a lens flare, it is
 >a peculiar lens flare that has multiple objects in a delta
 >formation with staggered formations.

Hi Jan, Conway and all,

If I may jump in here and be a little picky.

A lens flare is when the camera catches a light source in-frame.
What you are talking about here is a lens reflection, the
reflection of a lightsource across the surface of whatever lens
you happen to be using, always in a single line.

I agree with Conway on this one, the idea that a lens reflection
can be photographed in a delta formation is ridiculous.

It surprises me that this particular image can be conclusively
demonstrated to be a lens flare when whoever made the conclusion
obviously doesn't know the difference between a lens flare and a
lens reflection.

Dave Bowden






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   May > May 23

                  Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction

From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:08:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 07:41:59 -0400
Subject: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction


SOURCE: EFE News Agency
DATE: May 17, 2002

Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction in Southern Chile

** The light that hovered over his car made him pass out. When
he woke up, he was over 10 km. from where the encounter
occured**

Santiago, May 14 (EFE)--An electrician claims having been
abducted by a UFO while traveling by car between two towns in
southern Chile.

Gabriel Encina, 47, states that the strange experience occured
six years ago, but that the anguish he experienced kept him from
disclosing it until now. "No one can keep me from thinking that
I was abducted by something or someone. What I saw wasn't an
airplane or a flying saucer--it was simply a very bright light
that landed on top of my car," said Gabriel Encina in an
interview published by "El Diario Austral de Temuco".

Encina notes that he never discussed the subject and that only
his wife and close friends knew about it. "I know that others
will call me a madman."

"In spite of the time that's elapsed, I'm still a bit affected
by it. Ever since that abduction, I have headaches, migraines
and bone trouble," he explained. "I have difficulty sleeping,
I'm afraid of dreaming, and when I close my eyes I see that
light following me, moving slowly toward me."

Chile , a nation of 15.5 million inhabitants, ranks fifth among
the countries having the greatest number of UFO sightings, after
the USA, Peru, Brazil and Russia.

Encina recalled that the incident occured on June 27, 1996 at
20:00 hrs. (24:00 GMT) while traveling between Los Sauces and
Angol in the La Araucania region, 608 km to the south of
Santiago, under clear skies and the damp weather characteristic
of that winter season. "I suddenly saw a very bright white light
some 3 meters in diameter which appeared and descended and
followed me. I accelerated, but curiously, the car lost speed,"
he added.

He says that when the light landed on his vehicle, the radiance
was so intence that he could make out dust particles floating in
the air. "That's when I felt anguished and passed out."

According to Encina, when he awoke, both he and his car were
some 12 km. from where the encounter with the alleged UFO took
place. "My legs trembled and my head hurt. I was surprised that
my wristwatch had stopped at 20:05 hours, althought almost an
hour had elapsed since the encounter," Encina explained.

In mid-April of 2001, Erasmo Mena, an expert with the Centro
Informativo para el Fenomeno OVNI en America Latina (CIFOAL)
disclosed the "massive" presence of UFOs between the cities of
Angol and Victoria which could be seen by the unaided eye.

Until 1990, Chile experienced over 400 sightings and the
country's northern region was the scenario of a number of cases,
such as so-called close encounters of the third kind and the
abduction of a Chilean army corporal by the crewmembers of
alleged flying saucers.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales,
Institute of Hispanic Ufology.
Special thanks to Ing. Marco Reynoso, Fundaci=F3n Cosmos.




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   May > May 23

                 Colombia: 'Spectacular UFO Video & Stills'

From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:11:17 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 07:43:17 -0400
Subject: Colombia: 'Spectacular UFO Video & Stills'


SOURCE: William Chaves, ContactoOVNI
DATE: 05.16.2002

Spectacular UFO Filmed and Photographed in Colombia on April 02-
03, 2002


The news spread like wildfire regarding the fact that in Tabio
and Tenjo, communities 40 km. to the northwest of the Colombian
capital, strange phenomena are occuring. The CONTACTO OVNI
organization held a skywatch [in this vicinity] since some of
the reports from nearly 300 people who occupy the region
adjacent to Pe=F1a de Huaica  state that strange lights engaged in
all kind of maneuvers are being seen by day and by night. Even
the local mayor has witnessed these events and there exists a
generalized restlessness over the phenomenon.

Fifteen members of the organization headed out with both
camcorder and still cameras toward the location in question on
the night of April 02. For 7 minutes, we captured on video the
manuevers of a strange orange object which changed shape above
the road leading toward Tabio. On the following day, at around
9:15 a.m., we took photographs of Pe=F1a de Huaica without
noticing anything abnormal. However, upon developing the
negatives, we were startled by the fact that the first two
photos in the sequence show nothing above mountain, but the
third features a circular blue disk. We compared the photos and
subsequent analysis at Kodak in Bogot=E1 revealed no anomalies in
the film, since the object was in fact there. The negative was
enlarged and the metallic disk descending over the hill can be
clearly seen. Photos of this sighting can be viewed at
www.epagos.com/contacto-ovni at the link "OVNIsen Huaika during
2002". Please examine them and give us your opinion at :
  contactovni@hotmail.com,


WILLIAM CHAVES ARIZA
Director de Contacto OVNI
Tel en Bogot=E1 Colombia (571) 2355578   (571 2442686)

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales,
Institute of Hispanic Ufology.





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   May > May 23

                          Filer's Files #21 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:28:31 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 07:47:32 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #21 - 2002


FILER'S FILES #21-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
May 22, 2002, Majorstar@AOL.COM.
Webmaster: Chuck Warren http://www.filersfiles.com.

UFO SIGHTINGS: Vermont circle, New Jersey rectangle, West
Virginia gold object, Florida triangle, Ohio saucers, Indiana
fireball, Missouri daylight triangle, New Mexico silver object,
Oregon orbs, Washington photos, Canada sightings, England
lights, Russia UFO over stadium, and Australia police see UFO.
Plus my trip to Roswell and the "Search for Alien Life Evidence"
(SALE).

FLIGHT FROM ATLANTA TO PHILADELPHIA -- On May 18, 2002, out the
window of my aircraft I can see Atlanta as the sun sets in a
spectacular blue and red sky The city lights sparkle below as I
look for signs that the visitors might be near. Thirty miles
north of Atlanta there is a very bright light near the ground
with a red light on top. It's the brightest object in a hundred
miles, but I don't know what it could be? This sighting occurred
at 9:15 PM. Later in the flight, there is another circular group
of lights that are not nearly as bright, but they are
impressive. The fellow behind me notices I'm video taping and
volunteers that it might be the track lights at Charlotte at
9:40 PM. A Southwest Airline pilot dead heading home, says he is
very interested in UFOs and has seen a couple suspicious craft
and wants to get these files. I was amazed by all the various
lights from homes and businesses below. I can see a few light
aircraft far below but no UFOs. We're flying just below a cloud
layer at 33,000 feet and there are no clouds below us. During my
recent trip to Roswell I flew across the US from New Mexico to
Chicago then to Atlanta and Philadelphia. There is a cirrus
cloud layer at the same altitude that most jets fly. I wondered
if this is the mysterious chem-trails often discussed? Anyone
seeing this cloud layer formed behind aircraft leaving contrails
could easily jump to the conclusion that the jets were causing
the cloud layer. While driving from Roswell to Albuquerque I saw
two jets leave heavy contrails that quickly expanded across the
sky and within minutes the sky started to cloud over. My
observations indicate that the contrails are dirtier and more
numerous than a few years ago. The engines may not be burning as
efficiently or the new fuel is leaving more particulate in the
sky causing the heavier than usual cirrus clouds. I noticed the
skies seemed to clear after the sun set.

Now one effect of this cloud cover is to reflect light towards
the moon. The direct sun lights up the moon brightly, but you
can see the secondary light reflecting from the earth's clouds
shinning on the moon. Clouds reflect more light than ground or
water. The crescent moon is caused by the slanting rays of the
sun, but the secondary light reflection allows you to see the
entire moon dimly lit. One benefit might be to reflect sunlight
and heat away from Earth. And slow down the warming effect of
the sun. We're now over Virginia the sky has cleared. I can get
a good shot of Venus in the western sky. Sorry to report there
were no UFOs. The sky is clear but a fog, or low-lying clouds
are below us as we pass over Maryland. There were numerous
commercial aircraft in the area.

VERMONT BRIGHT GREEN CIRCLE

BRIDGEPORT -- The witness was driving north on route 22a on May
4, 2002, behind several cars and trucks, averaging 60 mph. With
his teenage daughter asleep in the passenger seat. The witness
reports, "Just south of Bridgeport, as I was coming up a rise at
12:50 AM, a brilliant emerald green circle appeared at the top
of my windshield, coming from behind us, leaving a slight green
trail behind it. My car's compass was reading NE, and the object
came at a slight angle from right to left, so I estimate it was
moving north and above Lake Champlain. The duration of the event
was no more than 1 second. By the time I reached the top of the
hill the object had disappeared. I had a clear view of several
miles, with clear skies. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
National Reporting Center http://www.ufocenter.com/

NEW JERSEY RECTANGLE STRANGE SOUND

NEWARK -- The witnesses report, "Four of us were returning from
vacation to Newark International Airport on May 13, 2002, and
took the bus to the long term parking lot P to get our car at
4:10 PM. We had trouble locating the car and my wife and friend
went one direction and my 16 years old son and I went the other
direction. While my son and I were walking around in the parking
lot we heard this very loud sound similar to a jet engine which
came from 5 or 6 different directions at one time in about a 4
second time frame. The two of us automatically looked into the
overcast sky thinking it was some type of jet. After thinking of
what we just heard it was impossible for this to be a jet since
the sound was coming in from many different directions to the
point where we were standing in this very large parking lot in a
very short time. We had looked into the sky but I noticed
nothing. My son said, he noticed a rectangle object that was
gray in color which vanished as fast as the sound we both just
heard. I'm not sure what this was but it has to be the strangest
thing I every experienced in my life (48 years old). Not that my
son and I didn't believe in UFO's, now that I heard this and my
son did see something in the sky we have had our own experience.
If it wasn't for both of use being together when this happened I
don't know if I would believe it myself. Thanks to Peter
Davenport http://www.ufocenter.com

WEST VIRGINIA ROUND GOLD OBJECT

RIPPON -- NUFORC reports that a witness saw a round gold-colored
body with white wings or other edge attached roughly at center
of round body. The witness states, "I slowed my driving, because
I thought it was an airplane coming in for an emergency landing
on Route 340, just south of Rippon, and ten miles north of
Berryville, Virginia. As I slowed, the craft disappeared from
sight, even though it was only about 200 yards from me. I saw no
other witnesses.

FLORIDA THREE LIGHTED TRIANGULAR CRAFT

ORLANDO -- The witness says, "On May 12, 2002. while working as
a security guard I observed from atop a downtown parking garage
what appeared at first to be three craft approaching from the
north like airplanes do going to the main airport." "But then I
observed that they were much too closely spaced to be regulated
aircraft, and as they got near downtown they began to move in
lazy turns at 2:23 AM." It banks and double backs like seagulls,
at random and not in formation, and not like any planes I've
ever seen. The front of the craft had half a dozen white lights.
There were no other lights and no sound was heard. I used an 8x
eyepiece to get a better view. The rear of the craft was square
so the whole thing appeared to be an obtuse triangle with the
large angle at the nose. The craft appeared black. I double-
checked myself that these were not blimps, spotlights, laser
lights, helicopters, normal airplanes, birds, nor reflections.
Their size appeared to be about twice as big as a large
commercial plane. After a few minutes they moved slowly off to
the northwest and disappeared in the haze. Their altitude was
about that of planes coming into the city just about 5-10 miles
from the airport. Their speed was similar to jets flying
normally, or just a tad faster. The weather was mostly clear
with some haze. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director National
Reporting Center http://www.ufocenter.com

OHIO BOOM AND TWO SAUCERS.

DAYTON -- The witness reports that on May 2, 2002, I was with my
friends and my Mom, we were out side when we herd a loud boom.
"We looked up in the sky and there were two saucers, my friends
and I had a clear view of it at 1:00 PM, and it probably was
UFOs." I'm doing a report on UFO's so this is huge for me. My
friend said, I should report it. I hope you can find out more
about UFO's from this. ((NUFORC Note: Date is approximate. PD))

INDIANA ORANGE FIREBALL

INDIANAPOLIS -- The observers were outside at about 10:00 PM, on
May 10, 2002, when they saw a strange orange fireball fly away
from them. It seemed too big to be anything like a meteor and it
was flying away and disappeared suddenly. They shook it off, but
then we heard neighbors talking about how the planets are
aligned, they became a little interested. The observers state,
"We then continued walking around and saw another one exactly
the same fly by across the sky at about 1:00 AM. "Later at 2:00
AM, we saw the same thing. At about 4:00 AM we saw it fly across
the sky again and suddenly vanish." We live near an airport but
their is no way this was anything I have seen before. We also
heard, and saw, large jets flying around. We did some research
and found no explanation for what this was. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director National Reporting Center
http://www.ufocenter.com

MISSOURI DAYLIGHT SILENT TRIANGULAR SHAPED CRAFT

KANSAS CITY -- On Thursday, May 2, 2002, at 7:45 PM, the witness
stepped outside on the balcony to watch the sunset in the clear
weather. The witness lives near a small airport and frequently
sees small aircraft. He observed a triangular shaped craft
flying south at an altitude of about one half mile and at less
than one mile away. The witness states, "I could see it clearly,
the craft was triangular with rounded corners, dark in color,
that didn't reflect any sunlight and made no noise." I would
gauge the size of it to be similar to a large commercial
aircraft. "The surface that I saw appeared to be smooth without
any lights on it. "When first seen I thought it was a kite
drifting on the wind but it flew smoothly in a straight line,
not erratically like one expects a kite to do. It flew slowly
enough that it was in sight for at least two minutes. During
this time it maintained a steady flight path and did not change
it's altitude or distance from me. I finally lost sight of it to
the north due to the edge of the building I was in. While I was
watching this craft a small Cessna took off from the airport and
reached an altitude of about 1500 feet and the engine on this
plane was easily heard. I've seen the B-1 Stealth aircraft in
flight at distances of a 1000 feet and the craft I saw yesterday
evening was a little different. What impressed me the most was
the rounded corners, total lack of noise, it's shape and that it
didn't reflect any sunlight in the setting sun. I am 40 + year-
old, college educated, worked many years in the medical field
and am currently state certified in public service. In the
military I had flight line clearance but have never before seen
a craft exactly like this one. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director National Reporting Center http://www.ufocenter.com

NEW MEXICO A BRIGHT SILVER TINY OBJECT

QUEMADO -- The observers were driving east on Route 36 less than
a mile west of the intersection with NM 117 about 20 miles north
of Quemado on a clear May 3, 2002, afternoon when both saw an
object moving east. To one observer, the object was an extremely
bright silver tear drop less than 1/6th the thickness of a
little finger when held at arm's length at 3:14 PM. To the other
observer, the object was an extremely bright silver ball with a
short comet-like tail. Both agree on the size. The object first
appeared at the top of the windshield and looked like it was
descending at about 45 degrees or more. At the end of the
sighting, the object disappeared as it seemed to level out
relative to the horizon. The total time of the sighting was less
than one-second which indicated to the observers that the rate
of speed was much greater than any known craft could attain. The
two observers had never experienced this type of sighting in
their 70 plus years, and neither are involved with drinking or
drugs. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC http

WASHINGTON UFO PHOTOS ANALYZED

SPOKANE -- The lawyer wrote, "I just wanted to let you know that
the anomalous night light activity has been very heavy in the
last week." Nearly every night at least four or more
lights/craft came in and move to an area near Tower Mountain,
upon which are located a number of radio towers and microwave
transmitters. One night, I was able to photograph a light fly
below the tops of the towers, stop while flaring brightly, and
then reverse course and come down and disappear at the base of
one of the towers! No fixed wing aircraft could do that, and it
would be a pretty risky maneuver even for a helicopter. From my
vantage point I can see a small college town about 20-25 miles
WSW from my location. Last night, for the second time, I
observed two very bright stationary lights in or near this town.
I'm assuming they are stadium lights from the college, or from
some other sports complex in the town. Anyway, at about 9:15 PM
I observed what initially I thought was an airplane fly over my
house heading west. It had a white light on front, but I noticed
I could not see the red/green navigation lights on the wing
tips. I could see red and white strobes, but they were flashing
quite fast and erratically. I then watched as this craft
diverted to the South to fly over the bright stadium lights --
as it did so, it shut off the bright light, leaving only its
strobes on. It then turned and flew the "normal" path to the
base of Tower Mountain where it disappeared. From my vantage
point, it appeared that the craft wanted to check out the bright
ground lights to see what was going on! See
http://www.filersfiles.com for photos

SPOKANE - MUFON Photo Analyst Jeff Sainio reports that there is
not a whole lot to work with, but some conclusions can be made.
Alleged photos digitally sent are child's-play to fake, but even
a poor faker could make a more 'exciting' picture than what was
submitted. I would tend to trust a judge in view of the evidence
submitted. I presume the lower objects are streetlights or
whatever stationary known lights. I have no witness testimony.
Focus of the unknown and the known lights is similar (although
so bad this is of limited use) indicating all objects are
distant. The shape of the unknown lights is unlike anything I'm
aware of, although an aircraft expert would know more than me.

The terrestrial lights are all smeared in a line pointing about
1 o'clock, indicating the camera aim moved during the (long)
exposure. The unknown light is NOT smeared, suggesting the
camera followed its motion, keeping it clean while smearing the
terrestrial lights. The witness should be asked about the object
motion; I would expect it coming or going, but not moving
sideways. If the witness sees things regularly, I'd recommend a
camcorder, which has better night sensitivity and provides
motion. Thanks to Jeff Sainio. Jeffrey.Sainio@qg.com

OREGON ORBS

HOPEWELL - Lisa Boersma writes that, "Amazing things transpired
at my table last weekend during the UFO Fest in McMinnville."
There is a need for a place where those of us can go and have
support without all the labels. All of the activity is around my
home in Hopewell 18 miles south of McMinnville. The Orange Orbs
came bopping around as if to say, you forgot to mention me so I
must include the orange orb ones also. All of the crafts I have
seen average 30 to 80 feet in dimension, except for the
Motherships that are about 600 feet come in to do their
collecting. Its like they knew I was going to be there last
weekend, its weird? If you need more info there are also the
disk craft the ones with the red and blue lights that
occasionally have these light glowing small orb things that hang
around the outside of the crafts and one by one in intervals zip
through the shell of the craft. Then after it enters the inside
of the craft glows very bright. Thanks to Lisa Boersma

ENGLAND DISC SEEN

BINGHAM, NOTTINGHAMSHIRE -reports that on May 5, 2002, a disc
shaped object appeared several miles south of Bingham. At 3:00
AM, I looked out of my bedroom window and saw a flashing light
which at first I thought to be a light aircraft. I realized the
object was flashing different colored lights erratically and was
not moving. Two small white lights appeared to move outwards
from the main body of the object and remained like this for the
rest of the sighting. I fetched my binoculars and viewed the
object observing a disk shape with clusters of green, orange,
yellow and red lights. It appeared to be moving in a spinning
and rocking movement. I woke my girlfriend who also viewed it
and confirmed what I saw. I then fetched my digital camera and
photographed it as best I could. The object remained virtually
stationary for over an hour. When I stopped watching, dawn was
approaching. During the period of the hour the object appeared
to have moved slightly further south. Thanks to Clive Howe
http://ETcontact.com

RUSSIA UFO FLIES OVER STADIUM

PERM -- Pravda reports that on May 20, 2002, several dozens of
Perm citizens saw an UFO flying over Energia stadium situated in
the center of the city. One of the witnesses, a former military
possessing flying training found difficulty in identifying the
object with any known flying devices constructed on the Earth.
According to him, the UFO was a three-dimensional body with flat
round basis, similar to a reverse tureen. The "tureen" slowly
moved over the sky towards south, keeping the same height and
speed. The object flew soundlessly, without leaving any glow or
air track. According to the observer, the distance from him to
the UFO was approximately 400 km, while its diameter was 10 or
15 meters. In five minutes, the object disappeared over the
houses in Kommunisticheskaya. Perm is located in central Russia
near the Ural Mountains. Thanks to Pravada and FarShores UFO
News - www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/index.htm

AUSTRALIA SMALL STAR-LIKE OBJECT DESCENDS.

ALBURY, NSW -- Tonight at just after 6:00 PM on May 4, 2002, my
husband and I were driving down our street and saw a large
orange light that looked like what I thought was the planet
Mars. We have been looking to see the planets align and have
been seeing big bright stars that we are gathering to be the
planets that are aligning, but this one was different in the
fact that it was a bright orange! There was a small but bright
white star just above this bright Mars-like planet. Then I said
"Look-its moving!" My husband looked up from the road and said
"What...Mars?" with a tone of disbelief in his voice, as I would
have also if I were him. I said "No...the little white star
above it is moving!

MILDURA -- The Victorian UFO Research Society (VUFORS) is
currently investigating a report made by two police officers in
the northern Victorian city. The Sunraysia Daily newspaper
reports, Police sighting of UFO in the Sunraysia Daily, on May
18, 2002. "We've just seen a UFO," was the radio call received
at the Mildura Police Station during the early hours of
yesterday morning. Two officers on a routine patrol through Apex
Park were stunned to see a silver shape hovering above the river
at 5:00 AM this morning. "Mildura divisional van crew members
Kate and Greg were patrolling Apex Park when their jaws dropped
at the sight of a very bright lit up UFO hovering over the
river," A police spokesperson said. "It appeared the UFO spotted
them at the same time as it shot off in the direction of Gol
Gol. "They attempted to give chase, but it had gone in the blink
of an eye." "One of the officers commented over the air 'we've
just seen a UFO' and received the reply. "One of the officers
had seen a similar sighting in the same area several months ago
that was the source of much mirth and humor among her
colleagues," he said. Thanks to VUFORS
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~vufors

ALIEN AUTOPSY FILM EVALUATION

Dave Vetterick reports that, "Many think the Alien Autopsy film
has been declared a hoax and that is where the matter rests."
"However, that is not the case as it has not been proven
authentic nor has it been proven a hoax. Two aspects of the 1947
Roswell UFO incident have generated the majority of the
discussion and interest in this subject in the last few years:
ONE - The Santilli Alien Autopsy Film as seen on Fox TV TWO -
The analysis of the UFO debris and message seen in the 7 known
photos taken in General Ramey's Ft. Worth, Texas office in July
of 1947. The infamous Alien Autopsy film has been digitized and
put on a 2 CD set. These are NOW being made available to the
public. Using included free ware, you can now view the entire
unedited original film on your PC, and analyze the film frame by
frame with amazing clarity and detail. Then, decide for yourself
if it's the real thing or a fraud. This concludes an 18 month
project where some of the most prominent Roswell and UFO
researchers and authors in the world have viewed this digitized
version of the AA film and submitted their reviews and opinions
of the film. The CD's also include a comprehensive analysis of
the 7 known photographs of the supposed Roswell UFO debris taken
in General Ramey's office in July 1947. See the following Web
site for the project's objectives, the reviews, and how to order
the 2 CD set. http://www.v-j-
enterprises.com/aafilm/aaindex.html. Thanks to Dave Vetterick
Neil Morris and Ed Gehrman.

NEW MEXICO TRIP -- I wish to thank the Roswell UFO Museum
Director Julie Schuster and the New Mexico Museum of Space
History Director Mark Santiago for their willingness to help the
Air Victory Museum in Medford, New Jersey to expand its UFO and
space exhibits. Also I wish to thank Wayne Mattson for a guided
tour or the New Mexico Space museum, where I asked if anything
flying out of White Sands such as the V-2 rockets could account
for the wreckage at the Foster Ranch? The chief researcher at
the Space Museum assured me nothing from White Sands was
responsible for the crash reports. I visited Holloman Air Force
Base where OSI personnel had a nice chat with me and let me know
they were doing their job in a professional manner. I asked if
they were still interested in UFOs? "I was told they were
interested in lots of things." I encourage you to visit these
excellent museums soon!

ROSWELL 1947 UFO CRASH SITE

On May 13, 2002, I visited the famous alleged alien crash site
at the Foster Ranch about twenty miles from Corona. During my
Air Force career I was involved with several aircraft crash
sites and have come up with my own estimate of what occurred
based on the testimony of numerous witnesses. Assistant Counter-
intelligence officer Master Seagent Lewis Ricketts tells us that
he spent some weeks with Dr. Lincoln La Paz a specialist in
meteorites who was interviewing ranchers in New Mexico. M.Sgt.
Ricketts claims LaPaz came to the conclusion a vehicle had got
into trouble and landed some way from the Foster ranch debris
site to effect repairs. LaPaz had found a site some way from the
debris field where the desert sand had been turned to glass by
heat. We can speculate that a large disc shaped craft probably
measuring at least a hundred feet in diameter encountered
trouble after getting airborne and exploded over the Foster
Ranch creating the debris field Mac Brazel found. The New Mexico
state authorities have been kind enough to mark the debris field
with steel markers. The field is 3/4s of a mile long and two to
three hundred yards wide running southeast to northwest. Most
witnesses claim the vehicle was a saucer or heal shaped object.
Lorretta Procter told me Mac Brazel came to her house near the
Foster Ranch and was advised to take some of the debris into
Roswell to show the authorities. Major Marcel drove out to the
debris site and collected some the debris and showed it to Col.
Blanchard. Lt. Walter Haut was called into Col. Blanchard's
office and told about the strange debris. I spent over an hour
talking to Walter. He was instructed to announce that the Army
Air Force had captured a flying saucer. There is no doubt in his
mind something extraordinary occurred not just some weather
balloons and radar reflectors. He wrote and carried the press
release to the major news outlets in Roswell on July 8,1947,
that a flying saucer had been captured.

One of the most likely causes of the 1947 crash debris would be
from classified government rockets or aircraft. All launches of
the V-2 rockets and similar advanced craft from 1947 have been
revealed. Data on advanced secret aircraft that were developed
much later such as both the U-2 and SR 71 have been released.
Any advanced 'secret vehicles' observed in the 1940s and 1950s
should have shown up in the Korean War or Vietnam or the Gulf
War. While in the Air Force, I taxied next to a U-2 in Puerto
Rico and a SR-71 in Okinawa. If we had built an advanced flying
saucer it seems reasonable that they would no longer be
classified aircraft. Furthermore, we are developing a advanced
F-22 fighters costing billions, why not use the advanced saucer
technology 52 years later?

In any case the descriptions of special metals and materials at
the crash site have persisted for fifty years. Lt. Walter Haut,
Lorretta Proctor, Brig. General Arthur Exon plus many others
suggest this is most likely the crash site of an alien space
craft. I personally walked over most of the debris field that
looks flat in the photos, but it is covered by rocks, rock
outcroppings, sink holes that could hide a car, and animal
burrows for Prairie Dogs and snakes. There are virtually
thousands of hiding places for what may be left of the debris.
Assuming this is the actual spot, and numerous witnesses will
testify that it is, this is a potential treasure area. Debris
found here could once and for all prove the existence of alien
life. I found an old penny, strange red rocks, old tin cans,
crystal rocks, plus other interesting scraps in an hour of
searching. It is my opinion that metallic or plastic like debris
still exists underground in the debris field. There are a
million hiding places for small bits of metal, and alien
materials. Although, it was a warm day, it was surprisingly cold
on the open field I had the feeling that there must be some
metal remaining, and that underground radar may be able to
detect its presence. It would cost about $20,000 to have an
underground survey of the site. If anyone is interested in
making a tax exempt donation to pay for the survey of the debris
site, please contact me, perhaps we would find the answer once
and for all? Thanks to Dennis Balhaser, Jim Wonder, and Bruce
Rhodes for taking us to the site. If your interested donating
towards the "Search for Alien Life Evidence" (SALE.) Please
contact George Filer at Majorstar@aol.com

THE UFO STORE -- Your purchases at the UFO Store will help pay
for UFO research. Go for the widest selection of UFO books, CDs,
and videos on the net at: http://www.filersfiles.com.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and
comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send
your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically
grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please
state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story
confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND
REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George Filer









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   May > May 23

                     New Digital Images Of 'Chupacabras'

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:51:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 07:54:02 -0400
Subject: New Digital Images Of 'Chupacabras'


Hi!

See the new digital images describing the 'Chupacabras':

http://www.geocities.com/ufomiami.geo/DIGITAL/DIGITAL.html

NOTE: These images may be copied and redistributed as long the
artist and these sources are accredited for the work.

Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center
http://www.geocities.com/ufomiami.geo/index.html







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   May > May 23

                     Re: Searching For Rudolph - Aubeck

From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 22:20:19 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 07:56:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Searching For Rudolph - Aubeck


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 18:22:05 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Searching For Rudolph


 >>From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:09:49 +0100 (BST)
 >>Subject: Re: Searching For Rudolph

 >>>From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
 >>>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:31:48 +0000 (GMT)
 >>>Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:28:04 -0500
 >>>Subject: Searching For Rudolph

 >>>Dear list,

 >>>>I am currently trying to track down the earliest
 >>>>source for an alleged teleportation/time travel
 >>>>case. The incident involved one Rudolph Fentz, who
 >>>>is said to have jumped from 1876 to 1950 at the
 >>>>age of 29.

 >>>Dear List,

 >>>I finally managed to complete a detailed report on
 >>>this incident.

<snip>

 >Hi Chris,

 >I'm not sure how this may 'tie in' with the cases
 >you are checking out but... a more recent example of
 >somebody who claims to be from 'another time' is Al
 >Bielek of 'Philadelphia Experiment' fame.

<snip>

 >Regards,

 >John Velez


Hi John,

Nice hearing from you. Hope all is going well with your personal
projects.

Yes, I hadn't thought of mentioning Bielek. He must have slipped
my mind. I find the description Vall=E9e gives of him in
'Forbidden Science' very amusing.

What I have noticed is that many people are 'returned' or
suddenly find themselves in the middle of Manhattan. Is this
mere coincidence or are there also many abduction cases in which
the participant finds him or herself in Manhattan after an
'experience'?

(The words 'Manhattan Transfer' suddenly pop into my head but I
manage to fight them off.)


Best wishes,

Chris Aubeck







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                           Re: UFO Stats - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:01:37 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 07:59:00 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Ledger


 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:29:01 -0300
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:28:34 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >>>Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 16:28:44 -0300

 >><snip>

 >>>At the end of my 'Flying Saucers ARE Real' lecture I normally
 >>>ask as the first question in in the Q and A session "How many
 >>>people here believe they have seen what I would consider to be a
 >>>flying saucer (I defined my terms at the beginnning).

 >>>The hands go up slowly.

 >>>As soon as I see 2 in the same part of the hall I will start
 >>>counting out loud, so that audience members will know there are
 >>>many sighters out there. Typically it is about 10% of the
 >>>crowd... in general audiences. Much higher, if it is a workshop.

 >>>Then I ask "How many of you reported your sighting?". About 90%
 >>>of the hands go down.

 >>>If there are some left, I will ask "how many of you were in the
 >>>military when the sighting occured?" and then "do you want to
 >>>tell us about it?" Get some very fascinating reports... some
 >>>only told to me at the book table afterward.

 >>Last Friday night I posed the same question at the Shag Harbour
 >>2nd Annual gathering for the support of the Chappell Hill museum
 >>there and got about 13 out of two hundred plus me and Chris
 >>Styles.

 >>There were two others out there that didn't raise their hands
 >>who I know had sightings because they told me so earlier.

 >>Then, afterward, three more came forward who admitted that they
 >>hadn't raised their hands plus one ex-RCAF fellow who gave me
 >>his name and number and said..."call me". He was at Bacarro.

 >>Excluding him that's twenty out of two hundred. Your typical 10
 >>percent. Only two of those reported their sightings and they
 >>were the two Shag Harbour witnesses present. Even I didn't
 >>report mine - nor did Chris.

 >Don, it is good to get confirmation.Sounds like a great crowd
 >for a small town. I had better add that I have never spoken in
 >that town so could not have had any influence on the audience. I
 >should add that at a couple of dinners before management club
 >lectures, I had spouses tell me about sightings they had never
 >told their spouses about.

 > "They would think I was some kind of a nut" is the most often cited reason
 >for not reporting".


Hi Stan,

No doubt about it. In my experience the biggest reason not to
report by those I've talked to is fear of ridicule. One on one
they are more likely to talk. Another thing I've noticed is the
one time shot at a witness. Often a referral ends in silence
from the witness once the original investigator tries to move
the case to an investigator closer to home. It's as if they run
out of nerve after their initial sighting where they've probably
been deeply impressed with the event and they want to talk about
or attempt to get an explanation. A few days later their
concerns about ridicule set in.

Now if you get them in a setting where they are among 'friends'
or fellow witnesses, they seem to get caught up in the
excitement or fellowship of the event. They are then less
reticent to talk. I'm sure most have noticed this.


Best,

Don







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   May > May 23

             Indians Look To Ancient Texts For 'Stealth' Secrets

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:27:10 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:02:12 -0400
Subject: Indians Look To Ancient Texts For 'Stealth' Secrets


Source: BBC News,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1986000/1986595.stm

Stig

***

Tuesday, 14 May, 2002, 11:13 GMT 12:13 UK

**

India defence looks to ancient text

*

By Shaikh Azizur Rahman

in Bombay

*

Indian scientists are turning to an ancient Hindu text in their
search for the secrets of effective stealth warfare.

They believe the book, the Arthashastra, written more than 2,300
years ago, will give Indian troops the edge on their enemies.

India's Defence Minister George Fernandes has approved funding
for the project, and told parliament recently that experiments
had begun.

The research is being carried out by experts from the Defence
Research and Development Organisation and scientists from the
University of Pune and National Institute of Virology in western
India.

The book includes the recipe for a single meal that will keep a
soldier fighting for a month, methods of inducing madness in the
enemy as well as advice on chemical and biological warfare.


Powders and remedies


The book was written by military strategist Kautilya, also known
as Chanakya and Vishnugupta, a prime minister in the court of
India's first emperor Chandragupta Maurya, in the fourth century
BC.

"All of us are excited about the possibilities and do not for a
moment think that the idea is crazy," said Professor SV
Bhavasar, a space scientist who has spent many years researching
the Arthashastra.

"Decoding ancient texts is not an easy task but we are very
hopeful of success," he added.

According to a Pune University report, the book says that
soldiers fed with a single meal of special herbs, milk and
clarified butter can stay without food for an entire month.

Shoes made of camel skin smeared with a serum made from the
flesh of owls and vultures can help soldiers walk hundreds of
miles during a war without feeling tired.

A powder made from fireflies and the eyes of wild boar can endow
soldiers with night vision.


Chemical warfare


Kautilya wrote in the Arthashastra that a ruler could use any
means to attain his goal, and Book XIV touches on aspects of
chemical and biological warfare.

The book says that smoke from burning a powder made from the
skin and excreta of certain reptiles, animals and birds can
cause madness and blindness in the enemy.

The book also provides the formula to create a lethal smoke by
burning certain species of snakes, insects and plant seeds in
makeshift laboratories.

"Our focus at present is on how humans can control hunger for
longer durations and walk for longer period without experiencing
fatigue,

Project leader Dr VS Ghole, head of the environmental
engineering department of Pune university, said the team was now
focusing on the methods of controlling hunger and increasing
stamina.

"Once we have made some headway we will go into researching
Kautilya's notes on night vision and other fields," he said.

Professor SV Bhavasar said the team also had plans to research
other ancient Hindu texts.

These include manuscripts which "claim to provide secrets of
manufacturing planes which can not be destroyed by any external
force, could be motionless in the sky and even invisible to
enemy planes."

**

=A9 BBC






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   May > May 23

                          Secrecy News -- 05/22/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 12:24:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:05:12 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/22/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 45
May 22, 2002


**FETISHISM OF THE PRESIDENT'S DAILY BRIEF
**A LETHAL LEAK?


FETISHISM OF THE PRESIDENT'S DAILY BRIEF

The Bush Administration believes that the confidentiality of the
President's daily intelligence briefing -- which he receives in
the form of a CIA document called the President's Daily Brief
(PDB) -- is so important that its continued secrecy must take
precedence over any investigation into the failure to prevent
the terrorist attacks of September 11.

That is the peculiar conclusion that emerges from Vice President
Dick Cheney's insistence that "it would be a mistake" to provide
to Congress a copy of the highly classified August 6, 2001, PDB
that reportedly made reference to the threat of airplane
hijackings.

White House press secretary Ari Fleischer acknowledged at a
press briefing yesterday that it was the principle of
confidentiality rather than the sensitivity of any information
in the PDB that justified withholding the document from
congressional investigators.

"I don't really think it's anything, per se, about that memo, in
and of itself, ... as much as it is the overall principle," Mr.
Fleischer said. See excerpts from the May 21 White House press
briefing here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/05/wh052102.html

But this is not security policy, it is fetishism. It places the
instrumentality of secrecy above the larger security interests
of the nation.

The mystique of the President's Daily Brief has been
energetically cultivated by the Central Intelligence Agency,
even to the point of denying disclosure of PDBs from several
decades ago.

"The CIA continues to deny [State Department] historians the
right to quote or cite material from the President's Daily
Briefs," according to the latest annual report to the Secretary
of State from the State Department Historical Advisory
Committee.

Now the CIA is pressing for a blanket exemption from
declassification for all PDBs, no matter how old or
inconsequential they may be. According to a participant in the
ongoing executive order revision process, high-level CIA
intervention is expected to ensure that the agency's wishes are
incorporated in the forthcoming Bush executive order on
classification and declassification policy.


A LETHAL LEAK?

A confidential source who provided the U.S. with intelligence on
terrorism died as the result of a leak of classified information
that was reported in the press, according to an offhand remark
made last Sunday by Vice President Dick Cheney.

"[A] story that was published in one of our major newspapers...
subsequently led to the death of an individual who had provided
us access to one of the terrorist organizations," the Vice
President told Tony Snow on Fox News Sunday on May 19.

See the full transcript of his remarks here:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,53057,00.html

This would be an important, and perhaps instructive, story if it
could be confirmed and elaborated. But no follow-up questions
were asked and no substantiating information was made available.

Ordinarily, official claims about the damage caused by leaks of
classified information are so vague and self-serving as to be
purely rhetorical, and sometimes they are demonstrably false.

Two months ago, Rep. Curt Weldon repeated his fantastic
assertion that former Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary had leaked
the classified design of the W-87 nuclear warhead to U.S. News
and World Report, which published it in the July 31, 1995 issue.
But on close inspection, it turns out that the supposedly leaked
diagram was not a classified design nor even a U.S. government
document at all. Rather, it was a U.S. News artist's rendering
based on published information credited to the Natural Resources
Defense Council. Classification reviewers later approved the
drawing for republication in the unclassified version of the
1999 Cox Committee report on allegations of Chinese espionage
(p. 78). Yet Rep. Weldon, who is evidently less than honorable,
has failed to apologize to Secretary O'Leary for his continuing
false allegations. For more background see:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bulletin/sec80.html#weldon

A Justice Department report to Congress on measures needed to
combat unauthorized disclosures of classified information that
was due May 1 has still not surfaced.


******************************

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the
message:

subscribe secrecy_news

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691







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   May > May 23

                   RAF Cadets Learn To Spot & Report UFOs

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:50:09 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:07:34 -0400
Subject: RAF Cadets Learn To Spot & Report UFOs


The Sun: RAF Cadets Learn To Spot And Report UFOs

Source: UFO News UK, Vol. 1. No. 19, 21st May 2002.

This newsletter by Anthony James is archived at
UFOINFO's site:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/ufonewsuk/index.shtml

Subscription at:

AJames@emufora.freeserve.co.uk

Stig

***

<snip>

THE SUN (UK National Newspaper) Thursday May 16th 2002

R.A.F. LEARN TO SPOT 'ALIENS'

New RAF (Royal Air Force) pilots are being taught how to spot
and reports UFOs. Cadets at the RAF College in Cranwell,
Linconshire, are shown video footage of a 1990 sighting. Tornado
pilots watched a cigar-shaped object for six minutes near the
Dutch border.

<snip>






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   May > May 23

                  CI: 05-22-02 Another Face-like Formation

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:42:44 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:09:28 -0400
Subject: CI: 05-22-02 Another Face-like Formation


The Cydonian Imperative
05-22-02

Another Face-like Formation Discovered
by Mac Tonnies

See:

http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

(page 31) for links and images.


Researcher Bryan Campbell has discovered a domed formation that,
like the Cerberus Platform discussed previously, bears a vague
but tantalizing resemblance to the Face mesa in Cydonia. While
no facial features are evident, what can be seen of the
formation's perimeter is very similar to that of the Face. While
I find a natural explanation for Campbell's formation easier to
entertain than I do for the Cydonia Face and Cerberus Platform,
it is nevertheless a good example of a "Face-like" landform.

[image]

Bryan Campbell's "Face-like" object. Note that the upper edge is
parallel to a deep chasm featuring apparant "stains" similar to
those analyzed by Efrain Palermo. Refer to the MSSS site under
"Related Links" for larger views.

Comparative study may help frame the Cydonia controversy in its
geological context. For example, the Face--if artificial--may
have been created by modifying an existing rectilinear mesa. If
the Face is natural, then it's likely it was formed by processes
related to those that formed the mesa discovered by Campbell
(assuming Campbell's mesa is natural, which I think it is).
Campbell's formation is much smaller than the Face, while the
Cerberus Platform is roughly the size of the Face, although
noticeably squatter.

[image]

The Cerberus Platform.

Campbell's animated GIF demonstrates a gross morphological
similarity between the two landforms.

-end-







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   May > May 23

                Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:45:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:20:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - McCoy


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:52:36 EDT
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

 >>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 22:15:54 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

<snip>

 >>I wonder how many get "dissed" as Satellites or Airplanes at
 >>such meetings. Also it is just not P.C. to say there are UFO's
 >>to a large part of the astronomy community amateur or otherwise,
 >>you'd get your Plossils takenaway and your red filtered
 >>everready flashlight broken ala the opening scene of the old TV
 >>show 'Branded'.

 >Yeah, at most places, except maybe Chris's club. That would
 >depend upon the ratio of believers vs. skeptics. On the other
 >hand, the surveys were anonymous.

 >>>It's just that it's the last few that remain _unexplained_ that
 >>>interest us mortals <g>

 >>Yes especially the shiny metallic ones with lights around the
 >>rim of a disk. That move silently from a dead stop. With a total
 >>of five witnesses. Without so much as a pelican squawk.

 >Unless it was advertising something. What was the size of it in
 >the sky, how long did you see it and how did it disappear?


Hello, Bob,

Here is my story as to why I'm on this List.....


My sighting took place Aug 12th 1966. It was about 8:30 pm (no I
didn't look at the clock). My Pop was the first to see it - he
was one to look for satellites and such. We, my Calvinist
Presbyterian, straight laced, mother, my Cowboy Pop, (the real
dirty sweaty thing that particular day, we'd just shipped my
uncle's Polled Herefords to a local fair.)

Included in the mix were my cousin Marie (a nursing student) her
sister Judy (a 1st year grade school teacher) and Vivian, a
friend of Judy's - whom I, 13, realized was built like a burlap
bag full 'O' Bobcats.

My Pop saw it as it came from the Southwest. He yelled "look!"
just as the thing had stopped - these incredible colors, yellow,
red, blue (lots of blue) no, this wasn't a star twinkling.
Simply put, I have rarely seen anything like it. My wife and I
have, but not quite this absolute. The shimmering, flickering
cascade of color stopped, and it became quite clearly - I might
add - a silvery-metallic disk. It moved from the South West to
the North over a dark, forested Mount Emily, named for the wife
of the first white settler in the Grande Ronde valley of Eastern
Oregon.

I was tracing a curved flight path, with the Ursa Major and
Minor (celestial north) constellations as a guide. the path
became more northerly as it tracked across the sky. the total
viewing time: Five or so mounties, but it wasn't looking at my
watch, just this Disk, with obvious metallic construction, four
large, white lights at the front, smallish red lights on the
rim, and a port or hatch in the bottom rear of the disk, with a
blue light glowing from it. The Disk faded from view in the
night, to the north.

I put the field glasses on it to see the features, as did all
present. We all saw the same thing. My mom or cousins and Vivian
will to this day not talk about it. Pop, always not bothered by
such things, called the airport (West Coast airlines to be
exact later Air West.) and the kid there (one of my old heros,
he must of been oh,18,) said he noticed the lights but didn't
see the Disk, then Pop called the local radio station KLBM, who
got the local Deejay all excited who then called the local news
paper.

Big freakin' boo boo. The next day we got visited by the local
human interest reporter. Who was named 'Tessie' she was a bitch
of the highest order, and my dear mom worshiped the ground she
walked on. Causing an earthquake in the social order of my
mother, who implored Tessie not to print it for fear of having
to go around La Grande (my home town) for the rest of her days
with a paper bag over her head. Well, she didn't, but she wrote
the whole thing down, as my Dad and I told it - trying to keep
from laughing as she wrote.

That little tale got around anyway, I think Tessie copied it,
and distributed it via the local garden club, PTA, etc. etc. My
dad and I were thought of as a little odd for not changing our
story, and I was called "Mr. Spock" after the First Star Trek
series came out, by the kids in my high school class. Funny
thing was, I liked it.....

Curiously, a few days later, a US Navy balloon was seen crossing
the Grande Ronde valley - someone called to report a UFO to the
same Deejay it was _not_ what we saw but a classic research -
  type balloon complete with instrument package. Some note was
made of it being a US-Navy balloon on a "research" mission

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." I thought.

Oh, at this same time, there was a UFO sighting in Roseburg
Oregon.


GT McCoy







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                   Re: Bottom Line On Walter Haut - Stacy

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:58:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:23:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Bottom Line On Walter Haut - Stacy


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 23:21:26 EST
 >Subject: Bottom Line On Walter Haut
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >The bottom line on Walter Haut, seems to be:

 >1) Haut gave an Oral history interview where he describes or
 >discloses certain information that he knew about Roswell
 >concerning bodies and other things. He has not previously
 >disclosed them and the reasons for not disclosing them is
 >also in the Oral History, apparently only available to
 >researchers _after_ he is dead.

<snip>


Robert,

Hard to argue with the points you've raised.

Still, it's curious as to why Haut was interviewed so many times
- by numerous leading ufologists yet! And yet seemingly
chose to bear his soul only to Wendy Connors, the details of
which are only to be released after his death: no follow up
questions permitted.

Well, maybe this is the right way to handle things... and maybe
it isn't.

One thing for sure: anyone who dares cast doubts on Haut's
posthumous testimony will surely be labeled a grave robber at
best.

And, I assume, a skeptibunker at worst.

Touche, indeed!

Dennis Stacy







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                   Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:02:45 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:26:34 -0400
Subject: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?


Source: Thee Under Ground, May 17, 2002.
Updated on May 20, 2002

http://www.theeunderground.com/ufo/

Some of you will take offence at the occult aspect, but the
author's findings are worth investigating.

Stig

***

1947 FBI UFO PHOTO!

PROOF THE US GOVERNMENT USED UFO TECHNOLOGY FOR STEALTH BOMBER!

**

Byline - D.E. Alexander Freelance Investigative Journalist and
Author

Special Assignment to Thee Under Ground

May 17th 2002

**

Today I was given an URL to the official FBI FOIA (Freedom Of
Information Act) web site. The site claims to have 1600 pages of
UFO documents released to the public.

The FBI UFO web page has 11 PDF File Links. I was told to
download all 11.

I was shown how to put all 11 files into a single PDF file. When
I did, I found out there are only 940 Pages, where are the other
660?

I was told to copy page 14 of the first file.

The page is really horrible, as many of the first few pages are.
They are basically illegible.

I was told how to copy and paste page 14 into my image-editing
program.

I was told how to negatize the image, the same process used on
the Shroud of Turin to reveal HIDDEN IMAGES.

As soon as I did, lo and behold, two washed out images became
two very clear images of REAL UFO's.

I did the same with the blacked out report page about these two
FBI UFO PHOTOS that was located two pages before THE FBI UFO
PHOTO EXHIBIT PAGE.

It was a DETAILED FBI SPECIAL AGENT REPORT filed by Agent Lynn
C. Aldrich (EIC - AAF, FDTHC) about how the images were taken in
Phoenix Arizona by a William Rhoads. The UFO photos were taken
Aldrich stated on July 7th 1947. That is the EXACT day of the
Roswell Crash in New Mexico!

Now this is INFORMATION RIGHT FROM THE FBI's PUBLIC RELEASE OF
DECLASSIFIED UFO INFO!

The FBI tried to confuse the public by inserting an irrelevant
page in between the OFFICIAL FBI REPORT on these images and the
actual EXHIBIT PAGE!

The most AMAZING thing is the first photo has the exact shape of
the B-2 STEALTH BOMBER!

For years we have all heard the Stealth Bomber was reversed
engineered technology from the Roswell Crash!

DAMN HERE IS THE PROOF!

What is a photo of the modern stealth bomber doing in an FBI
PHOTO FILE from July 7th 1947 THE EXACT DATE OF THE ROSWELL
CRASH?

Holy FOX MULDER!

How brazen was the FBI to release this info cleverly manipulated
so NO ONE would suspect THIS WAS THE SMOKING GUN to the whole
Roswell Crash story!

Below are the images.

Below are links to the full size page RIGHT FROM THE FBI that
you too can verify haven't been altered by me in anyway.

The only altering was by the FBI to try to hide THIS AMAZING
INFO.

Here is a full size image as the FBI wants you to view it.

Here is the reverse negative HIDDEN IMAGE!

Here is a photo of the present stealth bomber next to the 1947
Winged Craft!

Here is the 1947 second UFO photo.

Here is the 1947 second UFO photo with the reverse negative
look. Look how clear the UFO is!

Here is a link to the Original Page 14 FBI UFO PHOTO Exhibit
Page!

Here is a link to the HIDDEN FBI REPORT ON PAGE 12 about these
two UFO Photos I downloaded right from the OFFICIAL FBI UFO FILE
that I have use the Shroud of Turin technique on!

All I did was negatize the black page and LOOK AT THE STORY that
appears!

Here is a link to the ORIGINAL PAGE 12 released by the FBI that
you can't read until you negative it!

The FBI HIDDEN REPORT SAYS the photos above were taken July 7th
1947, THE EXACT DATE OF THE ROSWELL CRASH!

The agent says he obtained the photos July 8th 1947 in Phoenix
Arizona!

The agent filed the report July 14th 1947!

The report says the two photos are exhibits 1 and 2!

Two pages later in the OFFICIAL FBI UFO FILE, the images above
appear as EXHIBITS 1 AND 2!

This is not a hoax, these are THE PROOF ROSWELL OCCURRED!

A Stealth type UFO PHOTO in the FBI FILE authenticated by the
FBI for July 7th 1947.

A clear attempt by the FBI to obscure or hide the report and
photo!

The person that told me where to look and how to do this was one
of the most famous personalities on the Net!

The FBI has one of the largest files ever assembled on anyone on
HIM!

He has publicly predicted quake prediction after prediction for
major 7.0+ quakes.

He hits dates and/or locations for major 7.0+ quakes in his
warnings.

The USGS has several seismologists analyzing his quake warnings.

I did a whole book on his 911 warning (titled The 911 Warning),
it was a warning that he issued PUBLICLY on the Net before 911
occurred!

A warning so clear the FBI stopped by my publisher's office
asking about how he knew of 911 before it happened.

His 911 warning stated MAJOR TERRORISM NEW YORK CITY IN
SEPTEMBER!

A BIG BANG IN THE BIG BUILDING!

The same WARNING stated the NYC media would be struck in early
October after the September terrorism occurred!

The same person sued the US Government in 1996, Eastern District
Pennsylvania, US Federal Court, located in Philadelphia.

The case is 96CV 1499

In that case he explains the US Government detained him for
faxing a warning about the Oklahoma City bombing to several
major US Media executives!

The warning stated April 19th 1995 BIG BANG!

The warning named the building!

The person who the FBI has thousands of CLASSIFIED Pages on is
named Sollog! His site is Sollog.com!

Look in any search engine and you'll see thousands of references
to him and his warnings!

His site is in the top 99.9% of all web sites on the net for
traffic as per the Alexa ratings!

Yet the US Media refuses to TELL THE US PUBLIC about his amazing
quake and terrorism warnings!

He says NUKE TERRORISM will soon hit western cities!

The first act of nuke terrorism he says hits Israel, then Rome
then Washington DC!

Bush knows all about THE COVERUP of the Sollog 911 Warning!

The media helps the government KEEP THE US POPULATION ILL
FORMED!

Well here is the PROOF the US government COVERED UP ROSWELL!

PROOF THEY STOLE UFO TECHNOLOGY!

If I were you and I lived in a major US City I would leave
tonight!

Don't look back, NUKES ARE NEAR!

PS to Sollog fans. Yes the FBI agent filed the report July 14th
1947. 13 years to the EXACT DATE Sollog was born!

That's why us Sollog fans say SOLLOG RULES!

You can now purchase the complete 940 Pages of the FBI UFO FILE
in ONE EBOOK FILE! Also in this eBook are the UFO BLUE BOOK file
from the FBI and the Magic 12 Report!

This article is CHAPTER ONE! Order THE FBI UFO FILE Here!

I've combed through the entire file and featured several more
AMAZING Pages that you might have missed if you tried to read
the intentionally disjointed FBI File!

This is my 4th Book for Adoni Publishing!

My two top selling eBooks for 1eBooks.com are located at THE 911
WARNING! and THE PROPHECIES OF SOLLOG!

eBay has BANNED all selling accounts trying to sell THE 911
WARNING!

Adoni Publishing has a $100,000.00 GUARANTEE that the images in
this article are right from the FBI's UFO FOIA release as of the
date of this article!

They're here...

Editing Note: On 5/20/2002 I added the name of the Special Agent
that filed the report about the July 7th 1947 UFO Photos and the
name of the person that agent stated took the UFO photos to this
article. A search of Internet web pages and usenet posts reveals
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME anyone has mentioned agent Lynn Aldrich
in connection with the FBI and UFO's! The initials Agent Aldrich
used in the report are UNKNOWN as to his assignments.

The initials EIC - AAF are for some sort of Intelligence group
connect to the AAF (Army Air Force). FDTHC does not appear in
any known government document. It is probably a Super Secret
Defense Organization. If anyone knows what these initials Agent
Aldrich used means, send them to our editor.







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                        Re: NASA UFO Secrets - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 05:14:49 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:32:35 -0400
Subject: Re: NASA UFO Secrets - White


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 18:00:33 -0400
 >Subject: Re: NASA UFO Secrets

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:45:39 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: NASA UFO Secrets

 ><snip>

 >Hi Eleanor,

 >You wrote to Mr. Oberg:

 >>NASA owes its citizen-owners more than denials.

 >>I have a great deal of respect for NASA - one of my former
 >>engineering classmates holds a high position in your agency and
 >>I think the world of his abilities, and I'm saddened that an
 >>agency born under such terrific ideals, including putting aside
 >>the rigid secrecy which the military is forced to operate under,
 >>is now obviously witholding information that belongs to the
 >>citizens of this planet.

 >Just to throw a little more wood on the fire... not very many
 >people are aware of the dramatic change-over at NASA from
 >civilian to former-military personnel. Especially in top-level
 >positions over the last 15 to 20 years.

 >Management and projects at NASA are littered with military
 >payloads and staffed by ex-Pentagon, ex-military. NASA used to
 >be more of a civilian agency.

 >Now I wonder if that too was just an illusion.

 >The fact remains that NASA has become much more militarized in
 >its organizational structure than this lowly peon is comfortable
 >with.

 >There were several references - besides the one you quoted -
 >from 'Disclosure' witnesses that relate directly to the
 >withholding of important information by NASA and it's
 >contractors - e.g. doctoring of lunar images at JPL in
 >California.

 >Good luck with Mr. Oberg.


Hi

The original protest to James Oberg was made well before I
joined this List, and I didn't expect to receive a reply. It was
sent right after the May 10, 2001 Disclosure event, hoping that
NASA would get a flood of protests.

Hopefully I touched a nerve, as he sent me _three_ replies, all
of which I've deleted.

The reason for deletion is that I have quite a bit of experience
in dealing with debunkers, aka disinfo agents. They are not
convincable, as their _job_ is to maintain the cover up. They
will tie up an activist with endless nonsensical communications,
eventually reducing the activist to hopelessness and tears.

This reduces the effectiveness of the activist, thus achieving
the debunker's goal.

I let him have his say - once - then give him my rebuttal - once
- and that's the end of communication.

I recommend to UFO researchers that they do the same thing. Let
the skeptics have their say, but a point will be reached when
skeptics, by their behaviour, will separate themselves into
truth seekers and debunkers.

The ultimate battle to obtain both truth and disclosure is in
the hearts and minds of those who can make a difference - the
general public. I recommend that researchers _talk_past_ the
noisy negativists, directly to the public, and focus on the work
of studying the phenomenon and advocating full disclosure.

Such a tiny percentage of the population as are debunkers, with
a fanatical mission to never let you convince them, are not
worth the aggravation.

Eleanor White






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   May > May 23

             Seattle Times: Northwest UFO Paranormal Conference

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:35:55 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:39:41 -0400
Subject: Seattle Times: Northwest UFO Paranormal Conference


Source: Seattle Times,

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/northwestlife/134459407_paranormal23.h=
tml

Stig

***

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 12:18 a.m. Pacific

Alien coffee club: Paranormal conference descends on area this
weekend

By Mark Rahner

Seattle Times staff reporter

**

Is there a big, mysterious hole in your life where "The X-Files"
used to be? The kind of hole that makes dogs dig in their heels
to avoid it? The kind of hole that doesn't make a noise when you
throw something into it?

Then whisk yourself to the SeaTac Radisson Hotel for the
Northwest UFO Paranormal Conference this weekend and get your
fill of alien implants, remote viewing, flying saucers and the
Ellensburg mystery known as "Mel's Hole."

"We're the real 'X-Files.' This is the real stuff," says
organizer Charlette LeFevre of Kent. She heads the Seattle UFO
Paranormal Group, formerly the Seattle Chat Club, originally the
Seattle Art Bell Chat Club =97 which sponsors the event.

Formed by devotees of syndicated paranormal radio host Art
Bell's late-night forays into the bizarre and the unexplained,
LeFevre's group is "a local coffee club" whose members gather
monthly to kick around the subjects and listen to guest
speakers. (See www.seattlechatclub.org for details.)

"But I don't want to give people the impression that we're a
'Star Trek' convention. This is a conference," LeFevre says.
"We're a very discerning group, and we do take this field very
seriously."

Still, LeFevre, a 37-year-old sales graphics worker, nearly
bursts with enthusiasm for the subject. She'll interrupt her
excited monologues with "Oh, my God, ohmyGod!" if you say you
don't know about the "Alien in the Freezer" controversy or
alien-abductee investigator James Harder (both will be featured
at the conference).

Last year's drew about 250 attendees on Memorial Day weekend and
just about broke even. To boost attendance, the club has lowered
the fees from $20 to $12 to see individual speakers.

LeFevre has a vision of the UFO Paranormal Conference as a big
annual event, as well as visions of a Northwest UFO and
paranormal museum some day.

"The Roswell museum gets 83,000 people a year, and they're out
in the boonies," she says of the alleged spacecraft crash site
in New Mexico.

Among the weekend's other attractions:

- Dr. Janet Elizabeth Colli, a Seattle psychotherapist who helps
victims of "alien-contact trauma."

- Red Elk, a local medicine man who will discuss "Mel's Hole,"
and perhaps be joined by Mel's Nephew. The mysterious and
seemingly bottomless hole on land owned by Ellensburg's Mel
Waters has been the object of recent search and speculation. "If
people want to bring sacred tobacco to recognize him, he takes
Pall Mall unfiltered," LeFevre advises.

- Santiago Garza, a Mexican UFOlogist who researched the case of
a Washington family that allegedly videotaped a strange object
that followed them on a car trip to and from Mexico.

- Making a return visit, 'Intergalactic Diva' Pamela
Stonebrooke, the lounge singer who claims to have done the nasty
with a reptilian alien. Perhaps she'll hook up with Colli.

- The hotel bar has gotten into the act and concocted new
drinks, 'Alien Abduction', 'Martian Mistic' and 'Egyptian Gold'.

- Peter Davenport, who runs the Seattle-based National UFO
Reporting Center.

Davenport was featured on Fox's Sunday news broadcast as a
follow-up to 'The X-Files' series finale. He'll make a
presentation with updates on some of the UFO cases from the last
year or so. "And there have been some dramatic ones," he says:

Impossibly fast-moving bright lights over Lake Forest Park in
April 2000; a Missouri cop who said he aimed his radar gun at a
disc-shaped UFO this January and got no reading; the same month,
a border-patrol agent who allegedly saw a dozen flying discs in
the California desert.

Davenport is increasingly frazzled because his one-man operation
keeps him busy from about 7 a.m. to midnight seven days a week,
and astronomers won't give his reports the time of day. "It's
impossible," he fumes. "These people have made up their minds."

'Psychic futurist' and frequent Art Bell guest Sean David Morton
will also be on hand.

A former TV producer, Morton, 43, claims he's had psychic gifts
since he was a kid. His first visions were about astronaut Gus
Grissom, a family friend who died in the 1967 Apollo I fire.

"I had horrific visions of Gus' death," Morton says.

He'll discuss seeing =97 and allegedly getting burned by =97 a UFO
at the infamous Area 51 north of Las Vegas, and researching a
New Mexico mesa where he says cattle mutilations occurred and a
secret underground complex that is said to be run by an
alien/government cabal.

Mulder and Scully would be proud.

Morton, who also practices 'remote viewing', says he's too tired
for a demonstration of his skills when reached by phone on the
road.

But here's an easy one: How does he predict the conference will
go?

"I think it'll go very well," he says.

Verify it yourself.

Mark Rahner can be reached at mrahner@seattletimes.com

*

How to attend


Northwest UFO Paranormal Conference, tomorrow-Monday, Radisson
Hotel, SeaTac, 9 a.m.-11 p.m. each day. Costs: $270 for all
events, $12 for individual lectures, $48 per day for Friday or
Monday and $60 per day for Saturday or Sunday. For more
information or to register, call the Seattle Metaphysical
Library toll free at 1-866-638-2542.

**

Copyright =A9 2002 The Seattle Times Company







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   May > May 23

                           Re: UFO Stats - Ledger

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:08:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:24:58 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Ledger


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:01:37 -0300
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:29:01 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

<snip>

 >Now if you get them in a setting where they are among 'friends'
 >or fellow witnesses, they seem to get caught up in the
 >excitement or fellowship of the event. They are then less
 >reticent to talk. I'm sure most have noticed this.


If I mention UFOs in a group I hear giggles and subject
changes... thanks going to the conflicted mainstream, haunted
looks, heartfelt reports, and honest questions are _always_ one
on one.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com
~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







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   May > May 23

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 21

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:30:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:31:26 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 21


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

   UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 7, Number 21
May 21, 2002
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


UNUSUAL RINGED UFO SEEN IN SOUTHERN INDIA

On Sunday, May 12, 2002, at 10:30 p.m., the three witnesses--
Manoj, Vinod and Ashwath--were outdoors in Chennai, a town near
Madurai in Tamil Nadu state in southern India, trying to cool
off in the midst of the region's worst heat wave ever. That's
when they spotted a strange glow coming from the south.

"At about 10:30 p.m., we spotted an object that emitted red and
bluish lights," Manoj reported. Immediately they fetched a pair
of Zeiss binoculars and studied the intruder more closely. "It
seemed to have three propellors (rotors--J.T.) when seen through
the binoculars."

"After awhile, it began changing its position, and we could make
out a vague ring-like structure around it."

"Soon we also spotted two diamond-like structures side by side,
emitting (multi-coloured) lights like a crystal spectrum. It
seemed to move around a particular region of the sky, which
could not be figured out. The diamond-shaped UFOs were white or
bluish-white with a red centre. They were shaped vaguely like a
diamond top. It (the first UFO) was moving at an extremely high
speed which made it difficult to photograph." (Email Form
Report)

(Editor's Note: The unprecedented heat wave in Tamil Nadu saw
the mercury rise to 120 degrees Fahrenheit on Friday, May 17,
2002, resulting in a death toll of 628 people.)


LUMINOUS UFO SIGHTED HOVERING OVER CAIRO

Simon Gibbard and his wife Jill lived for many years in Truro,
Cornwall, UK. As members of the Cornwall UFO Society, they
investigated and discussed sightings in that area. Then Simon
landed a job in Egypt, and he and Jill moved to Cairo. But
little did he suspect that a UFO might one day drop in for a
visit.

Simon reported, "Great excitement I had the other day as for the
third time in 20 years of scanning the skies, I spotted a great
UFO."

"The date--Thursday, May 16 (2002); the time--10:07 a.m. local
(Cairo) time. The place--my office in Cairo, an area called
Katamaya, where my large office window looks out toward the
pyramids, although they are not in view and are around 25
kilometers (15 miles) away. Conditions were an absolutely blue
sky and no clouds."

"I happened to look out and noticed what at first appeared to be
a white paper bag high in the sky. Further looking revealed it
was a bright ball of light. And although I found it hard to
judge altitude, I would say it was around 30,000 feet (9,500
meters) and moving."

"I at first started to go through the motions of possible
identification. It could not have been a plane as there was no
vapour" trail (condensation trail or contrail here in the USA;
jetstream in Australia--J.T.) And also it (the UFO) seemed to be
hovering and moving very slowly from right to left (at) about
the same speed you would see a plane moving at a very high
altitude. Except that this was a constant ball of light--no
vapour-- and after 6 to 7 minutes of viewing" it was "not
actually going anywhere, as any aircraft would."

"I was fortunate to have a tinted-glass (office) window, so I
started to discount that it (the UFO) was something on my
glasses." Simon then opened the window "and the object was still
there. I also took different angles to view it, again convincing
myself it was genuine. I then placed my finger against the glass
in line with the object to track movement, and it moved left to
right, then slightly up, then back to left to right at uniform
speed."

"Best part! While doing this with my finger still, it (the UFO)
all of a sudden went about six to seven times its (previous)
speed (from) right to left, and stopped dead. Difficult to
explain or show in an email, but what it covered in distance in
15 seconds (previously) it quickly did in two (seconds) and
stopped motionless again."

"At this point, I went to get my secretary, and when I came back
ten seconds later, it had gone."

"I looked and thought, How can it disappear from the middle of
the sky so quickly when it took so long to cover the same
distance earlier?"

Simon and Jill want to "hear from anyone else fortunate enough
to have" seen or heard about UFOs over Cairo and northern Egypt
last week. (Email Report) (Editor's Comment: What do the UFOs
want in Egypt? Well, the answer may lie with a recent
archaeological excavation near the Pyramid of Redjedef, just
outside of Cairo. See the pyramid story later in this issue.)


UFO TRAILS MOTORIST NEAR TAUPO, NEW ZEALAND


On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 8:30 p.m., the witness C.R. was
driving through Turangi township near Taupo, in the center of
New Zealand's North Island, when he spotted a slow-moving object
approaching from the north.

"I was going to pick up some friends to go out fishing," C.R.
reported, "Just as I was driving past Turangi township, I
noticed a light just above the houses. As we have a lot of
aircraft passing over, I assumed it was a helicopter. So I
pulled over and wound (rolled down in the USA--J.T.) my window,
but there was no noise."

"I freaked out because I have a passion for choppers, and I knew
this wasn't one. I picked up my friend and still heard nothing
as it flew over our car at about 20 feet (6 meters) off the
ground.. There were no flashing (navigational) lights or what
you would expect from a conventional aircraft."

"We carried on to another friend, and he and his wife were
looking at it as we pulled up to his house. She had seen red and
blue lights on it. But the light I saw was white, and it didn't
seem to have a reflection, if you can understand that."

"As we stood in my friends' backyard, it made a 45- degree climb
and (then) seemed to be motionless. But approximately 20 to 30
seconds later,it had disappeared like a space shuttle would out
of the atmosphere. It was 200 to 300 metres (660 to 1,000 feet
in length) and departed just southwest of Turangi township."

"I would like a feedback on this, as I can't comprehend what it
could have been," C.R. said, adding that his friend's wife told
him that there had been other reports of UFOs in recent issues
of the local newspaper, the Taupo Times. (Email Form Report)


FIREBALLS RULE THE SKY AT MOUNT DANDENONG IN AUSTRALIA


A sudden surge of mysterious "fireballs" have been reported at
and around Mount Dandenong in Australia's state of Victoria.

On Sunday,April 28, 2002, at 5:30 p.m., eyewitness "Sarah
reported seeing a very bright starry-like object hovering in the
west" in Footscray, Vic.

A few hours later, at 9:10 p.m., in Fern Tree Gully, Vic.,
eyewitness "Andrew saw two 'giant fireballs' traveling west
toward Fern Tree Gully,close to Mount Dandenong. Andrew (also)
saw a plane which was airborne at the time. The plane was at
about the same height (altitude) as the fireballs. The two
fireballs were larger than any plane and very bright. They flew
horizontally and 'flew a fair amount faster than the plane.'"

On Thursday, May 2, 2002, at 11:32 p.m., at Boronia, Vic., in
the foothills of Mount Dandenong, eyewitness "Simone saw a big,
fast-moving fireball in our atmosphere, travelling horizontally
from north to southeast. It did not change direction, nor did it
descend. A few sparks were seen. There was no sound."

Mount Dandenong is southeast of Melbourne, the capital of
Victoria.

Investigating the Footscray sighting, ufologist George Simpson
of AUFORN Vic. said there was a strong possibility that the
witness had been looking at the planet Venus, then prominent in
the western sky. (Many thanks to Diane Harrison of Australian
UFO Research Network, AUFORN, for these reports.)


UFO PUTS THE SPOTLIGHT ON SHEBOYGAN, WISCONSIN

On Friday, March 15, 2002, at midnight, the witness reported, "I
was outside at work for a break when I saw an object at very low
altitude traveling from south to north over the city of
Sheboygan," Wisconsin (population 50,792) "I didn't think
nothing of it, but I didn't hear a sound, and there was a bright
light in front that was shining on the ground in a sweeping
motion. It was around midnight, and the light then disappeared."

"Then there were three large flashes of light to the east of our
building, and the power went out. I called the (Sheboygan)
police department, and they stated that the power was out in a
six-block area where I work."

The mysterious blackout "was more widespread to the north of the
city. They had no idea why the power was interrupted."

"I then called the (Sheboygan County) Sheriff's department, and
the person there told me that a deputy had spotted the object
but could not identify it. The Sheriff's department called the
airports in Milwaukee, Green Bay and Sheboygan County, and no
one could say if there was a plane in the area. The sheriff's
official also told me that they had received several (telephone)
calls about the same low-flying object."

Sheboygan is on the western shore of Lake Michigan, located
approximately 56 miles (89 kilometers) north of Milwaukee. (Many
thanks to John Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for this report.)


UFO REPORTS CONTINUE TO TRICKLE IN FROM NORTHERN BRITISH
COLUMBIA

Reports relating to the March 2002 UFO flap continue to trickle
in from Canada's British Columbia province. Ufologist Brian Vike
is still interviewing eyewitnesses in the region.

One sighting took place during the week of March 18 to March 24,
Vike reported. The witness said, "I saw the UFO in the direction
towards Morice Mountain," south of Houston, B.C. (population
3,934), a small town 188 miles (305 kilometers) west of Prince
George,B.C. "It was a bright white light with an orange glow
around it and was hovering just below the mountain (ridge) line.
I watched it for about two minutes before it disappeared."

During the week of April 21, 2002, a woman "was watching an
object at approximately 11 p.m." The UFO "was west of the train
bridge over the Bulkley River, heading towards Smithers, B.C.
(population 5,624)," a town 40 miles (64 kilometers) west of
Houston, B.C. "It hovered just above the treeline for about a
minute. It was a very bright white light, and again an orange
tinge or glow was reported. She reported (hearing) no sound due
to being indeeors." (Many thanks to ufologist Brian Vike for
these reports.)


ORANGE UFO VIDEOTAPED IN CENTRAL COLOMBIA

"William Chavez Ariza, director of Contacto OVNI," the leading
UFO group in Colombia, "reports that his group videotaped and
photographed an ovoid orange UFO over the town of La Pena de
Huaica, located 40 kilometers (25 miles) from Bogota," the
national capital.

"The report stated that 300 people in the towns of Tabio and
Tenjo, including the local alcalde (mayor), also witnessed
during the day and during the night the appearance of strange
lights performing all kinds of aerial maneuvers."

"For this reason, 15 ufologists from Contacto OVNI organized a
skywatching vigil and, as a result, captured on video the
maneuvers of the orange UFO. The ufology team videotaped the UFO
for approximately 7 minutes. In addition, the team spotted
another UFO of a distinct discoidal shape hovering over La Pena
de Huaica."

"Chavez said the team will present the visual evidence of these
sightings at the National Convention of Enigmas and Mysteries of
the Universe, which will be held in Bogota from July 16 through
July 21, 2002." (See NotiOVNI for May 19, 2002. Muchas gracias a
Daniel Munoz para esas noticias.)


MORE UFOs REPORTED AT CERRO DE LA ESTRELLA

On Friday, May 10, 2002, Mexican ufologist Gerardo Sanchez
"observed a series of brilliant lights passing over the Cerro de
la Estrella (hill) to the east of Mexico City." For the second
week in a row, the area continues to be a focal point for UFO
activity.

"Sanchez reported the beams of light emitted by these strange
objects illuminated large areas of the eastern horizon. Each
unusual ray of light lasted 'for several seconds.' Sanchez also
reported that UFO activity here 'has taken place almost nightly
since the beginning of May.'"

Mexican ufologists have formed a Tema OVNI (Spanish for UFO
Team--J.T.) and are converging on Cerro de la Estrella with
videocameras, sound recording systems and other equipment to
thoroughly document the phenomenon. (See NotiOVNI for May 19,
2002. Muchas gracias otra vez a Daniel Munoz para esas
noticias.)


MYSTERIOUS PYRAMID IS DISCOVERED IN EGYPT

"Archaeologists have discovered the 110th pyramid to be
uncovered in Egypt--the 4,500-year-old tomb of a queen whose
identity remains a mystery, the country's antiquities director
said Sunday," May 5, 2002.

"'When we discover in Egypt a tomb or a statue, it's something
important,' said Dr. Zahi Hawass, director of Egypt's Supreme
Council of the Antiquities. 'But when we discover a pyramid,
it's the most important thing.'"

"The latest discovery was made by a Swiss team excavating the
tomb of the Fourth Dynasty pharoah Redjedef, son and successor
of Cheops--also known as Khufu--of Great Pyramid fame."
(Editor's Note: Cheops was the Greek name for Khufu.)

"The Swiss archaeologists were clearing sand from the desert
around Redjedef's unfinished tomb just outside Cairo when they
found an unmistakable shape: sharply-cut blocks rising just a
few feet above a square base of just five-by-five yards (about
25 square meters--J.T.)."

"The discovery 'was completely by accident,' Dr. Hawass said."

"The site is just a few miles from" the Great Pyramid, whose
construction is attributed to Khufu. "Redjedef ruled for a few
years after" the death of Khufu "and may have been killed by his
brother in an internecine power struggle."

"The Swiss archaeologists, who completed the two- month
excavation of the (unknown) queen's pyramid found that it
contained three chambers in addition to the tomb located about
15 feet (4.5 meters) underground."

"Researchers did find a remnant of a limestone sarcophagus, some
pottery and one alabaster jar of the type used to store organs
removed from a body before it was mummified."

"The new pyramid's proximity to the much-larger pyramid of
Redjedef and its small size indicate it was the tomb of a woman,
probably the sister, daughter or wife of Redjedef."

"'All the evidence proves that a queen was buried in this
pyramid,' Dr. Hawass said."

"She may have been both sister and wife to Redjedef, said Dr.
Hawass, noting the only hieroglyphics found in the tomb spelled"
the name of Khufu. Most queens' tombs found in Egypt bear no
trace of the occupant's own name, Dr. Hawass said."

"In all, 110 pyramids have been found in Egypt, Dr. Hawass said.
About twenty tombs atop which pyramids are set have also been
found, he said." (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for forwarding
this news story.)

YODA: A BOX-OFFICE SMASH, HE IS

Star Wars, Episode II: Attack of the Clones premiered at 3,000
movie theatres in the USA last weekend and enjoyed the best
opening weekend of any entry in the series, earning a total of
$80 million at the box office.

Most popular of the cast was Yoda, the short, green, 900-year-
old Jedi Master, who reportedly resided briefly on Earth 295
million years ago.

(Editor's Comment: What Luke called "the Dagobah system" in The
Empire Strikes Back looks suspiciously like Earth of the Upper
Carboniferous Period 295 million years ago. At one point in the
film, R2D2 is swallowed and spit out by a rather large
Icthyostega. I wonder how many metallic parts R2D2 left in the
stomach of the amphibian. Boy, is that going to surprise the
hell out of whichever geologist discovers this particular
fossil.)

"An informal survey of fans shows that Yoda was hands down the
favorite character of the film. The computer- generated Jedi
knight finally gets to demonstrate why he's a master with a
light saber, and his duel with Count Dooku (actor Christopher
Lee) left audiences cheering."

"'I'm going to see it again tomorrow just for him,' says Luis
Guillen, 33, of Portland, Oregon. 'I've been waiting for him to
show us what he's got since Return of the Jedi.'"

"Dave Mueller, 22, of Faribault, Minnesota sums up the sequence
this way: 'Yoda redefines the phrase, 'Bustin' out the whuppin'
stick.''" (See USA Today for May 20, 2002, "Yoda cuts a swath to
the top," page 3D.)


READER FEEDBACK:

FRANCE CHECKS IN WITH ROUNDUP

French reader Robert Cercot writes, "Hello, Joe! Some
information about the French case in UFO Roundup (volume 7)
number 19 (for May 7, 2002, "Mystery fireball crashes in eastern
France," page 1): the name of the village is Marsannay-le-Bois.
There are two villages called Marsannay in the Cote D'Or
department. This one is 14 miles (22 kilometers) north of
Dijon." "Keep on informing us!"


 From the UFO Files...

1726: STRANGE ARTIFACT FOUND IN SCOTLAND

"Said a correspondent of a Newcastle-on-Tyne newspaper, written
from Edinburgh," Scotland's capital, "on 25th May 1726."

"'We have an account from Airth, 18 miles (30 kilometers) from
this city (Edinburgh), near to the influx of the Carron, of a
very rare piece of antiquity found on the south bank of the
(Firth of) Forth, viz. a canoe 36 feet (10.9 meters) long, 4
feet (1.3 meters) broad, in the middle, and 4 feet, 4 inches
(1.4 meters) deep, also 4 inches (10 centimeters) thick along
the sides. It is all of one piece of solid oak, sharp at the
stem (bow) and square at her stern."

"The river washing away the banks discovered a part of her. She
was ordered to be dug up by Mr. Graham, judge-admiral and
proprietor of the place. What was discovered of her was found to
be above (more than) 15 feet (4.5 meters) under the ground. It
is remarkable that she is finely polished, being perfectly
smooth on the outside, and inside the wood is of an
extraordinary hardness and not one knot in the whole.'"

"Sir John Clerk says there lay above this ancient craft, strata
of loam and clay, moss, sand and gravel. 'This ancient boat was
found not far from Arthur's Oven, or 'Templum Termini.'"

What is intriguing about this ancient artifact is the depth from
which it was recovered. Sir John's description of "loam and
clay, moss, sand and gravel" provides some important clues. The
"sand and gravel" is what geologists call till, a deposit laid
down by the mile-high glaciers of the last advance of ice during
the Pleistocene Period (a glaciation known as Wurm in Europe and
Wisconsin in the USA--J.T.), which occurred around 25,000 B.C.

Since the dugout canoe was found in situ below the glacial till,
it was clearly carved from a single giant oak before the final
Pleistocene glaciation. During this last interglacial period,
Scotland was part of the European mainland and was covered by a
temperate maritime rain forest similar to the those of Canada's
British Columbia province or Oregon, Washington state and
southeastern Alaska in the USA. The oak trees which formed the
material for building this boat were there in great numbers. But
who could have built it?

 From the description of Mr. Graham's work crew, the boat is of a
style totally foreign to ancient Europe. Moreover, it is so
well-made that it appears to have been cut and shaped by a
machine. It doesn't quite fit the technology that was prevalent
in the Paleolithic era (Old Stone Age) described by conventional
science.

Did an unknown civilization exist in Scotland 30,000 years ago?
Was this civilization wiped out by the last advance of the
Pleistocene glaciers?

Chalk up another "Mystery of the Past." (See the book Secret
Cities of Old South America by Harold T. Wilkins, Adventures
Unlimited Press, Kempton, Illinois, 1998 edition, pages 428 and
429.)

(Editor's Comment: If the boat is still on display somewhere in
Scotland, it might be interesting to do a Carbon-14 analysis of
an oak sliver from the hull. But don't hold your breath waiting
for this to happen. Before orthodox science will admit that an
advanced civilization existed in the Pleistocene, they'll claim
that Graham's boat was the dinghy from Noah's Ark.)


Well, that's it for this week. So Yoda's 'bustin' out the
whuppin' stick,' is he? Now, I've got to see this movie. Your
editor is on his way to the Superior 7 Cinema.

But he'll be back in seven days for more UFO, paraormal and
Fortean news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by
"the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on
their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

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UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus
archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and
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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 23

              Re: Colombia: 'Spectacular UFO Video & Stills' -

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:33:15 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:36:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Colombia: 'Spectacular UFO Video & Stills' -


 >From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:11:17 EDT
 >Subject: Colombia: 'Spectacular UFO Video & Stills'

 >SOURCE: William Chaves, ContactoOVNI
 >DATE: 05.16.2002

 >Spectacular UFO Filmed and Photographed in Colombia on April 02-
 >03, 2002

Not to mention that they are a typical contactee group with
telepathic communications with the entities from beyond, i.e.,
fortunate guys, I rush to add.


Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos
Anomaly Foundation <www.anomalia.org>







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 23

                  Re: Bottom Line on Walter Haut - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 07:57:51 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:41:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Bottom Line on Walter Haut - Connors


 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:58:37 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Bottom Line On Walter Haut

 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 23:21:26 EST
 >>Subject: Bottom Line On Walter Haut
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>The bottom line on Walter Haut, seems to be:

 >>1) Haut gave an Oral history interview where he describes or
 >>discloses certain information that he knew about Roswell
 >>concerning bodies and other things. He has not previously
 >>disclosed them and the reasons for not disclosing them is
 >>also in the Oral History, apparently only available to
 >>researchers _after_ he is dead.

<snip>

 >Robert,

 >Hard to argue with the points you've raised.

Old news. Looks like the typical repeat of the typical
Gates/Stacy ploy to goad me in attempting to get something they
were to inept to get themselves and certainly don't deserve.
Same song, second verse, you boys are getting worse.

 >Still, it's curious as to why Haut was interviewed so many
 >times - by numerous leading ufologists yet! And yet seemingly
 >chose to bear his soul only to Wendy Connors, the details>of
 >which are only to be released after his death: no follow up
 >questions permitted.

Ah, here's the put down of me in a further attempt to goad me
into giving the Gates/Stacy cartel something they don't deserve
or certainly haven't earned. As usual, Gates & Stacy show their
inability to get facts straight. First, I wasn't the only person
doing the oral history and secondly, I've never claimed to be a
_Ufologist_. I am a crypto-aeronautic historian. Wanna match,
one for one, original contributions to ufological research guys?
Ah, I didn't think so.

Perhaps the reason that Walter Haut didn't _bare his soul_ to
the _leading ufologists_ is that ufologists like Gates and Stacy
are not worth his time. Then again, perhaps I pulled off getting
the oral history because I don't hit people like a steam engine
running at full speed trying to force out information. Could it
be that I do my homework, take an interest in the person and
build a relationship before respectfully asking for information;
something most _leading ufologists_ do not do?

 >Well, maybe this is the right way to handle things... and maybe
 >it isn't.

An opinion and 50 cents will get any two-bit researcher a cup of
coffee in any of the sleazier diners around.

 >One thing for sure: anyone who dares cast doubts on Haut's
 >posthumous testimony will surely be labeled a grave robber at
 >best.

Or the opposite could be true. Maybe doubts should be cast on
Robert Gates and Dennis Stacy's ability to be worthy of anything
I might have preserved for history. Gates' performance and
contributions to ufology is pretty shabby and Stacy sits in
Texas and opines, which isn't worth much in the scheme of
things.

 >And, I assume, a skeptibunker at worst.

Nah, just an inept researcher and publisher that didn't have the
right stuff to do the job themselves and attempting to bolster
their low self-esteem in attacking those who did, which is
pretty pathetic any way a person slices it.

 >Touche, indeed!

As Stacy stabs Gates in the foot with his Foil and Gates pokes
Stacy in the eye in return. Don't fret, boys. You'll learn
professionalism over time.

 >Dennis Stacy

Wendy Connors







   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 23

                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:07:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:44:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -



 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:02:45 +0200
 >Subject: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >Source: Thee Under Ground, May 17, 2002.
 >Updated on May 20, 2002

 >http://www.theeunderground.com/ufo/

 >Some of you will take offence at the occult aspect, but the
 >author's findings are worth investigating.

 >Stig

 >***

 >1947 FBI UFO PHOTO!

 >PROOF THE US GOVERNMENT USED UFO TECHNOLOGY FOR STEALTH BOMBER!

 >**

 >Byline - D.E. Alexander Freelance Investigative Journalist and
 >Author

 >Special Assignment to Thee Under Ground

 >May 17th 2002

<snip>

I have no idea who DE Alexander is, but there are many errors in
this item.

1. The Roswell crash certainly did NOT happen on July 7, 1947.
Mac Brazel was in Corona on July 5 at the local pool hall and
grocery store in Corona talking of what wreckage he had found a
few days before and in Roswell on July 6 at the Sheriff's office
with pieces of wreckage.

2. The Rhoad's picture is very well known and shows up all over.
DEA has a vivid imagination.


Stan Friedman







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 23

                 More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:03:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:54:19 -0400
Subject: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers


Hi everyone!

A few month's ago I listened to Palmiro Campagna and James Smith
on Errol's 'Strange Days... Indeed' radio show on UFOs (program
number 179). Palmiro is the author of several books, including
'The UFO Files: The Canadian Connection Exposed' and has been a
guest on Errol's show many times. This time Palmiro arranged for
James, the son of Wilbert B. Smith, one of Canada's many top
researcher's studying flying saucers back in the 1950s, to be on
the radio along with him. It was an amazing show!

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/sdiarchive/

James said that his father was shown dead alien bodies recovered
from a crashed flying saucer (a confirmation of what some of
Wilbert's closests associates also knew about) and that he was
also present during some of his father's experiments performed
in labs with the assistance of other government scientists.

These included experiments based on what was learned from the
'Boys Topside" that produced many unexpected effects which
demonstrated that time can be made to speed up or slow down and
that the weight of objects can be reduced, among many other
things. These experiments and the incredible findings they made
are often mentioned in Wilbert's correspndence, many of which
can be found at the Archives and Special Collections of the
University of Ottawa.

On Errol's radio show James said that his father's book 'The New
Science', which was published after Wilbert's death in 1962, was
no longer in print. I just want to say that Wilbert's book (1964,
by Murl Smith, copyright reserved and printed in Canada by Fenn-
Graphic Publishing Company Limited and reprinted by Keith Press,
1978) can be obtained through 'Planetary Association for Clean
Energy'. I bought another copy of this book from PACE while in
Ottawa last month while identifying who the other Canadian
scientists were, in addition to Wilbert, who were involved in the
official study of flying saucers and who participated in these
early wonderful experiments.

Searching through the archives and the 'office papers' of some
these Canadian scientists (many are still not sorted through and
catalogued yet for researchers), I have found many fascinating
new things and sometimes conflicting statements.

With not a single exception, all the people who knew or worked
with Wilbert, that I have spoken to, consider him a highly
regarded individual and a capable and distinguished scientist,
including the late Dr. Omond Solandt, then head of the the
Defense Research Board and the one that loaned the facilities to
Smith and his team of researchers for their flying saucer
observatory in Shirley's Bay, just outside of Ottawa.

That said, in a letter dated August 3, 1989 to a skeptical
enquirer, Omond writes "He [Wilbert] was not a good scientist.
He was out to prove that there were UFOs and that the
'Establishmen' [sic] was dedicated to suppressing all knowledge
about them - why no one knew.". Omond then discredits the
researchers involved at the flying saucer observatory, which
quickly made one detection of a flying saucer before immediately
being forced to shut down operations, by writing "Frank Davies,
head of our Telecommunications research Lab and an authority on
terrestrial and other magnetism repeated the experiments with
Smith and showed that the results obtained by Smith were due to
sloppy measurements with uncalibrated equipment.". Omond further
on in his letter writes that "He [Wilbert] never had any
institutional base which gave him authority to classify a
document. He just put TOP Secret on his personal papers. DRB may
have temporarily clasified [sic] some of his work but it was
quickly declassified.".

The documentary evidence that I have come across does not support
Omond's statements in his surprisingly very ungracious letter. In
fact, the research into flying saucers that Wilbert and many top
Canadian scientists (including a Nobel Prize winner and a few
very distinguished past university professors at University of
Toronto) were involved was actively discouraged.

For example, in a letter to another enquirer dated November 17,
1976, Murl Smith (wife of Wilbert who also worked for the head
of the Canadian Senate(?)) writes "There were a few physicists
interested in Wib's work, and worked with him, until the
Presdient of the Nat. Research Council discovered they were
working with him, and then they were presented with the choice
of deceasing their friendship or their position. It was a
difficult choice in some cases, but when you have a family and
obligations you have to eat. Wib was always grateful for the
time they spend [sic] with him.". Murl goes on to write "Wib
offered plans to P.M. [Prime Minister] St. Laurent and advised
him that he could build one for the govt. from the information
he had [with help from the "Boys Topside"], and they deliberated
on it for three months, and then the P.M. consulted Wib and they
came to the conclusion that it was not the right time for such
knowledge to be transferred to concrete evidence.".

Any comments or other information readers may have about Wilbert
B. Smith, his associates and their research into flying saucers
back in the 1950s or continuing present day research (eg. Smith's
antigravity work was continued by Dr. Eugene Podkletnov then with
Tampere University in Finland and at least one NASA research team
working on new propulsion systems) would be most welcomed by me
and many of the readers of UFO UpDates.


Nick Balaskas







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 23

                           Re: UFO Stats - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:47:54 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:34:13 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Ledger


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:08:38 -0500

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:01:37 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:29:01 -0300
 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 ><snip>

 >>Now if you get them in a setting where they are among 'friends'
 >>or fellow witnesses, they seem to get caught up in the
 >>excitement or fellowship of the event. They are then less
 >>reticent to talk. I'm sure most have noticed this.

 >If I mention UFOs in a group I hear giggles and subject
 >changes... thanks going to the conflicted mainstream, haunted
 >looks, heartfelt reports, and honest questions are _always_ one
 >on one.


Hi Alfred,

Been there as well. However in this instance I was referring to
a friendly gathering of those already curious about the
phenomenon and/or there to hear about it. But as you say, the
one-on one meeting is the most productive. Less distractions and
less chance of embarrassment.

Don







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   May > May 23

                              Terraforming Mars

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 05:24:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:39:16 -0400
Subject: Terraforming Mars


Hello, all

This is an interesting article about the "ethics of Terraforming
Mars". Assuming that it hasn't been done before. <G>

http://www.techcentralstation.com/1051/defensewrapper.jsp?PID=1051-350&CID=1051-
052202B


GT McCoy








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              Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:18:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:37:27 -0400
Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -


 >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:03:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

 >A few month's ago I listened to Palmiro Campagna and James Smith
 >on Errol's 'Strange Days... Indeed' radio show on UFOs (program
 >number 179). Palmiro is the author of several books, including
 >'The UFO Files: The Canadian Connection Exposed' and has been a
 >guest on Errol's show many times. This time Palmiro arranged for
 >James, the son of Wilbert B. Smith, one of Canada's many top
 >researcher's studying flying saucers back in the 1950s, to be on
 >the radio along with him. It was an amazing show!

 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/sdiarchive/

 >James said that his father was shown dead alien bodies recovered
 >from a crashed flying saucer (a confirmation of what some of
 >Wilbert's closests associates also knew about) and that he was
 >also present during some of his father's experiments performed
 >in labs with the assistance of other government scientists.

Hiya Nick,

You wrote:

 >These included experiments based on what was learned from the
 >'Boys Topside" that produced many unexpected effects which
 >demonstrated that time can be made to speed up or slow down and
 >that the weight of objects can be reduced, among many other
 >things. These experiments and the incredible findings they made
 >are often mentioned in Wilbert's correspndence, many of which
 >can be found at the Archives and Special Collections of the
 >University of Ottawa.

Nick, I don't mean to side-track the Wilbert Smith discussion
because I think the Wilbert Smith material is even more valuable
and compelling than Jesse Marcel and Roswell. At the very least
they are on par with each other in terms of importance.

I just wanted to take the opportunity to point out that
'abductees' have been reporting _identical_ phenomena (to that
which you mention above) for more than 20 years.

Re: Gravity effects...

Reports of being taken up into *'crypto-aeronautical' craft
(*that's for Wendy! :) by means of being lifted by light beams
is reported often enough to make it a significant detail.
Specifically _blue_ beams of light. A color that comes up often
enough to maybe provide a clue as to the beam's 'composition.'
They (abductees) are 'made light' (lifted) so as to 'float' them
up and into the craft.

Not to mention the fact that UFO's themselves 'probably' rely on
some form of gravity manipulation as a means of propulsion. It
would be the only thing that would explain their odd flight
movements and characteristics. Imagine the nature and intensity
of the magnetic forces they would have to employ inside the
crafts just to keep their own pilots from becoming a part of the
interior's paint job every time a UFO executes a 90 degree turn
at supersonic speed.

We're so mired in debate over square-one basics that we rarely
get to actually think or to speculate intelligently about the
physics-defying aspects of the phenomena we are studying.
Technology so advanced that it breaks _all_ the rules, (as we
'know' them) with the innocent disregard of a child at play.

Re: time distortion...

One of the things Budd discussed with me (because of something
that came up in my case... see below) was the issue of 'slowed
or speeded up Time' that turns up in many reports. He mentioned
on more than one occasion how he wanted to write a stand-alone
piece (article) about this odd phenomena.

Budd intentionally leaves out 'some' details/patterns, that he
is aware of, whenever he is making a public presentation.
Withholding a few of these 'not very well known' details allows
him to use them as a kind of 'diagnostic' tool in his own work
with experiencers of the abduction phenom. But I digress.

The point is, abductees have been reporting phenomena that
Wilbert Smith (in his time) was studying and working with in
secret way back in the 50's. I'm certain that 'contamination' of
the psyche's of today's abductees could not have come from
knowledge of Wilbert Smith and the experiments/studies he was
carrying out in Canada.

Gravity manipulation and time distortion, two details that
abductees report that were also a part of Smith's investigations
decades ago.

I hesitate to relate an 'isolated' detail in a public forum but;
while being returned from an abduction to a motel room I was
staying at, I noticed that there was a person in the parking lot
below us (we, myself and several 'Greys', were 'floating' in
mid-air so I had a bird's eye view of the surroundings,) seemed
to be frozen in mid-step. Everything was _dead_ quiet and
_nothing_ was moving. It was as if 'Time' had stopped or frozen
for the few moments it took for them to transport me from a
UFO back to my room - which was located on the second floor
of the motel.

Not 'hard evidence,' but certainly a _notable_ coincidence. I
wonder how much of Smith's other work corroborates or parallels
the phenomena reported by UFO abductees? I look forward to
learning more about Smith and his work. Thanks for sharing all
this Smith material with us Nick. Truly fascinating stuff.

Warm regards,

John Velez







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   May > May 23

              Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@canada.com>
Date: 23 May 2002 13:32:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 20:47:30 -0400
Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -


 >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:03:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

 >James said that his father was shown dead alien bodies recovered
 >from a crashed flying saucer (a confirmation of what some of
 >Wilbert's closest associates also knew about)

James can also confirm that Wilbert was shown a crashed flying
saucer outside of Washington D.C. in the 1952-53 period. Thus a
CONFIRMATION that Wilbert was DEALING AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL in
Washington.

Only the most senior of the inner circle knew of this rumor.
This would include "Buck" Buchanan, and possibly Darrel Halford-
Watkins. Bridge, the metals expert, was a younger member of the
inner circle from the Defense Research Board was NOT aware of
this story.

 >On Errol's radio show James said that his father's book 'The New
 >Science', which was published after Wilbert's death in 1962, was
 >no longer in print. I just want to say that Wilbert's book (1964,
 >by Murl Smith, copyright reserved and printed in Canada by Fenn-
 >Graphic Publishing Company Limited and reprinted by Keith Press,
 >1978) can be obtained through 'Planetary Association for Clean
 >Energy'.

The book is also now on the web at

http://www.rexresearch.com/smith/newsci~1.htm

 >"Frank Davies,
 >head of our Telecommunications research Lab and an authority on
 >terrestrial and other magnetism repeated the experiments with
 >Smith and showed that the results obtained by Smith were due to
 >sloppy measurements with uncalibrated equipment.".

These experiments done with Davies in the 50-53 time frame were
on the "magnetic sink" theory which I believe Smith did back off
on. The gravity control experiment was worked on up till near
Smith's death, and is completely different. The work on the
"coil" was again another independent project.

 >Omond further
 >on in his letter writes that "He [Wilbert] never had any
 >institutional base which gave him authority to classify a
 >document. He just put TOP Secret on his personal papers. DRB may
 >have temporarily clasified [sic] some of his work but it was
 >quickly declassified.".

The Top Secret memo was downgraded to Secret in January 1951,
downgraded to Confidential in Sept. 1969, and declassified in
the late 1970s. It remained classified for almost 30 years,
despite what Solandt might have wished to believe.

The 1969 downgrade involved the Top Secret memo and the "Project
Magnet Report" which sat on the Prime Minister's desk for three
months in 1953.

W.J. Wilson who was responsible for this action wrote very
telling words about just how classified these documents actually
were when he wrote in the memo dealing with the
declassification:


"It is recommended that this file be declassified at least to
the confidential level. At no time should it be made available
to the public. . A copy of the project "Magnet" report on this
file is the original and should not be destroyed until such time
as this subject has 'cooled off.'"


Solandt even contradicted himself in the Smith stories he told
myself and other researchers. He stated canadians were not given
access to anything above top-secret by the Americans. Yet in a
1991 interview he stated he had exchanged above top-secret items
with the Americans a number of times on a need-to-know basis.

 >Any comments or other information readers may have about Wilbert
 >B. Smith, his associates and their research into flying saucers
 >back in the 1950s or continuing present day research (eg. Smith's
 >antigravity work was continued by Dr. Eugene Podkletnov then with
 >Tampere University in Finland and at least one NASA research team
 >working on new propulsion systems) would be most welcomed by me
 >and many of the readers of UFO UpDates.

Over half the New Science books sold went to Finland and
appeared headed east. The Soviets were one of three governments
that approached Mrs. Smith following Smith's death asking for
the Smith files for research purposes.

Fortunately Wilbert had anticipated this before his death and
made arrangements to make sure his files would survive and
future generations would not have to listen to half truths being
told by people like Dr. Solandt.

Thanks for the great work Nick.

Grant Cameron






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   May > May 23

                          Re: UFO Stats - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:48:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 20:51:11 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Lehmberg


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:47:54 -0300
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:08:38 -0500

 >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:01:37 -0300
 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:29:01 -0300
 >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >><snip>

 >>>Now if you get them in a setting where they are among 'friends'
 >>>or fellow witnesses, they seem to get caught up in the
 >>>excitement or fellowship of the event. They are then less
 >>>reticent to talk. I'm sure most have noticed this.

 >>If I mention UFOs in a group I hear giggles and subject
 >>changes... thanks going to the conflicted mainstream, haunted
 >>looks, heartfelt reports, and honest questions are _always_ one
 >>on one.

 >Hi Alfred,

 >Been there as well. However in this instance I was referring to
 >a friendly gathering of those already curious about the
 >phenomenon and/or there to hear about it. But as you say, the
 >one-on one meeting is the most productive. Less distractions
 >and less chance of embarrassment.


Sorry, Mr. Ledger. I didn't respond very well. I was not
disagreeing, critiquing, or making correction. I was validating
your testimony with a disclosure of my own. Were he so moved,
Walter Cronkite could report "...that's the way it is..." for
the both of us.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com
~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others
see fromafar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno,
scourged by the specious and scabrous scurrilous.






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   May > May 23

                         Re: OZ UFO Images - Beacham

From: Chris Beacham <cbeacham@ihug.com.au>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:39:51 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:14:10 -0400
Subject: Re: OZ UFO Images - Beacham


Hi All,

I videoed a good sighting yesterday morning at about 6.30am on
Avalon Beach, Sydney.

The weather was clear, and there was a little cloud on the
horizon. When the light from which I first distinguish it
appeared, it was different.

For the first time in two years, it rose vertically for a short
distance, and then stayed at the same height for about 5 mins as
it spurted out some kind of silver-ish energy downwards (which
was not it's usual trail) just above the Ocean. It had a kind of
'Sword in the Lake' imagery.

After concentrating this 'energy' it then moved slowly sideways
for what was probably a few miles, with a low cloud in its path
confirming it's movements. It finally became 'normal' and flew
angled at it's usual speed and direction. The whole sighting
lasted about 20 mins.

I will see if I can get any good stills from it to post...


Chris







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                          It Only Looks Like A UFO

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 02:38:41 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:20:53 -0400
Subject: It Only Looks Like A UFO


Source: AP via CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/05/23/combat.drone.ap/index.html

Go to the site for photo!

Stig

***

New robotic combat jet takes flight

Combat drone designed to 'hunt in packs'

**

May 23, 2002 Posted: 6:07 PM EDT (2207 GMT)

**

[image]

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- A prototype of the first robotic
plane designed specifically for combat missions made a
successful maiden flight, officials said Thursday.

The Boeing Co.'s X-45 flew for 14 minutes, completing a wide
oval above Edwards Air Force Base in the California desert
before landing on a dry lake bed.

"It performed just as expected," said Rich Alldredge, Boeing's
X-45 program manager.

Boeing's Phantom Works in St. Louis built the plane for the
Pentagon's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and the Air
Force. The military sees such aircraft taking part in its most
dangerous missions, usually in initial attacks to suppress enemy
air defenses.

During Wednesday's flight, the sleek, tailless jet flew to 7,500
feet and reached a top speed of 224 mph. The plane flew
autonomously on a programmed course, with a ground-based
controller commanding it only to change its airspeed. Its
landing gear remained locked in place during the flight.

The plane, with 34-foot wingspan, is the first drone designed
specifically to carry weapons into combat, a role the Air Force
sees the eventual larger production versions being capable of by
2008. Other robotic planes, including a spy drone called the
Predator currently being used in Afghanistan, have been modified
to carry weapons.

At least five of the propeller-powered Predators have crashed
since the United States began its anti-terror campaign in
Afghanistan in October, but Glenn Buchan, a senior defense
analyst with the Rand Corp., said that robotic planes have not
flown long enough to assess their performance. The Predator, he
said, was hustled into combat while still under development.

"It looks like these things have a lot of promise and we are
relatively bullish on them for a lot of applications, but there
are a lot of bugs with them, as there are with all vehicles, and
the way you work them out is by flying them," Buchan said.

Leahy said the X-45 would "hunt in packs," carrying up to 3,000
pounds of guided bombs to drop on enemy radar and surface-to-air
missile batteries. Officials hope to fly a swarm of the planes
by late 2003.

"We believe it will transform the way we fight wars in the
future," said David Lanman, who is responsible for UAV
technology planning for the Air Force Research Laboratory.

Boeing hopes to build hundreds of the planes, which would cost
$10 million to $15 million each, about one-third the cost of the
next- generation strike fighter. Boeing recently lost a contract
to build those piloted planes to competitor Lockheed Martin.

*

X-45 combat drone

Length:27 feet
Width:34 feet
Height: 7 feet
Gross weight: 15,000 pounds
Can be transported on C-5 or C-17 aircraft

*

Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.







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              NCP-09: Oak Ridge Native Speak - An Introduction

From: Francis Ridge <slk@EVANSVILLE.NET>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:29:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:38:07 -0400
Subject: NCP-09: Oak Ridge Native Speak - An Introduction

To: Current Encounters List

Greetings Lists,

Here is another in our series presented by one of our NCP
Working Group members, Jerry Washington.

Francis Ridge
Coordinator,
Nuclear Connection Project

http://members.evansville.net/slk/ncp-wash1.htm

-------

Regretfully, any contribution I make to the Nuclear Connection
Project is going to be purely anecdotal. My only qualification
is scarcely more than an accident of birth -- having been hatched
and reared in the original 'Atomic City': Oak Ridge, Tennessee.

A sleepy little burgh tucked discreetly away in the rolling
hills between the Cumberland and Great

Smoky Mountain ranges, Oak Ridge has always appeared deceptively
normal on the surface.

Only when you peeked behind the fa=E7ade of plutonium and
privilege -- and you had to know where to look -- did you glimpse
the town's true nature.

Beyond the designer dachas of the nuclear bourgeoisie, out past
the abandoned guard tower relics of an earlier era, lay the vast
no-man's land we called the "Restricted Zone" ("we" meaning the
Mensa set's prodigal offspring).

The Oak Ridge 'Reservation' encompasses many hundreds of square
miles. However, the town itself -- the residential area --
occupies only a small percentage of that acreage. The rest has
always been under the purview of the Federal Government; Atomic
Energy Commission (AEC); Union Carbide; Martin Marietta, or
whoever holds the reigns of power these days.

The Oak Ridge City cops lacked the authority to cross over into
'the zone', a fact taken full advantage of by me and my fellow
delinquents. With too much time and money on our hands, we
sought to relieve our boredom through frequent incursions into
'the zone', where we'd party hearty in the shadow of K-25, Y-12,
or X-10, the three resident nuke facilities.

We sure-as-hell weren't worried about AEC Security showing up.
Those guys were an absolute joke! Even at the height of the Cold
War, we were able to carouse in 'the zone' with impunity. We
could've been Russian spies or worse, and nobody would've known.

Ringed with "DANGER: RADIOACTIVE" signs, we went about our
business with the fatalism borne by Oak Ridgers, and nurtured
throughout our formative years. Field trips to the Oak Ridge
National Laboratory (X-10) only served to reinforce that
posture, as we gazed down into the luminous depths of the Heavy
Water tank used to cool spent reactor rods. Years later I would
learn that that otherworldly glow had a name: Cerenkov
Radiation. As with the radioactive dimes that we took home as
souvenirs and promptly liberated from their plastic casings, it
was probably best that we didn't know too much back then. What
you don't know can't hurt you, or so the theory goes...

That was certainly the disposition with which I approached any
mention of UFOs at the time, whether in a periodical, TV show,
or even Baby Huey cartoons! The subject made me extremely
uncomfortable. When Time or Life Magazine (I don't remember
which) came out with a special UFO issue featuring a full-color
glossy of an alleged UFO on the front cover, my adolescent self
went utterly apoplectic. I repeatedly flipped over the issue
displayed on our coffee table, so as not to have to look at the
thing.

Of course, I was weaned -- like most of my generation -- on a
steady diet of B-Movies bearing titles like 'It Came From Outer
Space' and 'Invaders from Mars'. And while they also made me
uncomfortable, it was the notion of TV's 'The Invaders', that
really made me squirm; those glowing hands... the dissonant
music... the opening sequence with the saucer landing. The
notion of something so totally outside of my 'zone' of reference
ran contrary to the ideals that I held dear: My yearning for a
reasonable life, where cause begets effect, and stuff makes
sense.

I have set the stage for the following account. It is through
the contextual prism of life in the Atomic City, as I've
described it, that these 'anecdotes' should be viewed... too-
close encounter

When I invited my buddy, Robert, over to cruise for chicks and
beer on his first weekend home from college, UFOs were the very
last thing on my mind -- they weren't even on the radar screen.
Bob was a fellow hedonist, and, while I was still adrift in a
sea of uncertainty about my future after high school, he had
seized the bull by the horns and enrolled in the University of
Tennessee in Knoxville.

He picked me up in the beat up, old Corvair that he'd inherited
from his older brother. I was a little heftier than Bob and,
although it took some doing, I squeezed my bulk into the
passenger seat. Off we went -- Laurel and Hardy -- into the balmy,
autumn evening, headed due west towards the Restricted Zone.

Truthfully, Bob and I weren't all that close. We'd never really
hung out together, however, rumor had it that he had spent his
entire first semester at UT racking up one sexual conquest after
another, and I was anxious to hear him dish the dirt. My ears
were purt near burnin' as he regaled me with a play-by-play
account of his sexploits, a goodly percentage of which could
have been hyperbole; Bob wouldn't be the first young man who's
inflated his statistics.

Still, Bob was a pretty rational guy, not given to too many
flights of fancy. An honor student at Oak Ridge High, a school
that churned out National Merit Finalists like Y-12 turned out
nuclear triggers, he'd had the prettiest girlfriend in school.
In other words, he really didn't need to exaggerate very much.


"Let's cruise the plants," I suggested, and Bob agreed.

"I haven't had my fix of radiation in a while," he quipped, only
half in jest. "We'll take the grand tour, then come back by the
liquor store and buy some beer."

Onward, toward K-25 we trekked, penetrating deep into the
Restricted Zone, Bob, all the while, keeping a running
commentary going about his collegiate conquests. Basically, it
was just your typical dude's night out -- two local boys cruisin'
the nuke plants, hoping to stumble upon some action.

Eventually, we found ourselves on Bearcreek Road, the curvy,
two-lane road that leads to Y-12. A shift change was due at the
facility in half an hour, but for the time being, we had the
thoroughfare to ourselves. It was a moonless night, so Robert
had to drive with extra care. Although quite familiar with the
route, the lack of streetlights or other vehicles only added to
the challenges of negotiating its numerous twists and turns on
such a caliginous night.

And then it happened. We were driving along, shootin' the
breeze, listening to the A.M. radio, when off to our right, a
bright, fully illuminated object appeared out of nowhere. It was
descending at a 30-degree angle, following the topography of the
hillside next to the road, when it abruptly leveled out,
stopped, and hovered no more than twenty feet above the road.
Exhibiting every sign of being intelligently controlled, simply
by the ultra-precise manner in which it maneuvered, the UFO
seemed to be daring us to approach it and drive underneath it.

The object was disk-shaped, radiant, metallic, the size of an
eighteen-wheeler, and utterly silent. I know, because at the
moment it first appeared in my field of vision, I reached over
to turn off the radio. I don't know why, exactly, but that
enabled me to hear whatever ambient noises were present, and
other than the air passing by the open car window, there were
none -- other than the pounding of our hearts, of course.

"Oh, God," I cried, "what do we do?"

"I don't know," Robert replied meekly.

The fear, the greatest we had ever known, was robbing us of the
ability to speak. Reacting on instinct, Bob put the pedal-to-
the-metal, but this was a Corsair remember, a rickety ol' relic
that had long seen its day.

The object awaited us, only a hundred feet or so up ahead. Even
at the modest speed we were travelling, there was no way we
could stop -- not in so short a distance. The laws of physics
were indeed committing us to pass right underneath the intruder.

I glanced away, but its otherworldly luminescence still managed
to burn its image into my psyche. Robert wasn't so lucky. He was
forced to keep his eyes trained on the road, and it was he who
noticed the prismatic effect that the object exhibited. As
though a rainbow were contained within, the UFO pulsed with an
unnatural light.

Passing beyond the 'contact point', all I could think of in my
panicked state was the possibility that the UFO was toying with
us, and I suffered another panic attack. Suddenly, a diffuse
light appeared on the distant horizon.

"Could that be?" I wondered.

"I hope so," Bob replied.

What we were seeing were the first familiar signs of humankind:
the lights from the western boundary of the miles long Y-12
plant. It was only a couple of kilometers away. For the next few
minutes we hoped and prayed with every bit of fervor a couple of
irreverent teens could muster that we'd make it back to
civilization without another run-in with the mystery craft.
"Just a little further... just a little further," I chanted -- a
rather different mantra from my usual call-of-the-wild.

"Thank God...thank God," I intoned in unparalleled relief, once
we reached the outer limits of the 'bomb factory'. It's ironic
how something so alien as Y-12, with its enormous electromagnets
(largest on the planet) and cutting edge technologies, could
produce such a warm-fuzzy deep within me. A true baby boomer, I
was home...


(postscripts)

Oddly enough, Robert and I never discussed our encounter again.
I tried to get him to talk about it once, several months after
the fact when I happened upon him in a pizza joint, but he
refused. The very mention of it made the blood drain from his
face and his knees go wobbly. Quasi-hostile, he strong-armed me
to the side and warned me to never bring the subject up again.
And so it remained -- that silence between us -- up until his
death of AIDS complications in 1990. In a subsequent
conversation with our mutual best friend, I learned that Bob had
given him a detailed description of the events of that night,
and that all of the pertinent details matched up with my
recollections. It was a relief to know that I wasn't just
passing swamp gas...

I once queried Stanton Friedman and John Carpenter, two men
who've made it their life's work to study the UFO phenomenon,
what their take on such a close encounter was, and both replied
that it fit the alien abduction profile. "Any encounter that
close, usually involves a missing time and/or an abduction
component," was their consensus. Both found Robert's apoplexy
when cornered in the pizza joint a particularly telling
constituent. I was completely unaware of both phenomena -- alien
abduction and missing time -- at the time the event occurred. Not
until I assumed the State Directorship of both Kentucky/MUFON
and Skywatch did I become aware of just how much Bob and I fit
the profile of likely abductees.

Growing up in the Atomic City you learn a lot about its history,
about its birth during World War II, its top-secret mission, its
chief export -- weapons grade uranium -- and about the role it
played in bringing the war to a rapid conclusion. You never hear
about its lengthy and well-documented history of UFO
surveillance or about the folks, like Bob and me, who put a
human face on the startling statistics. That discovery would
also come later.

In October of 1973, a 'flap' occurred during which UFOs were
seen all over the East Coast, from Louisiana in the south, to
Michigan in the north. Oak Ridge, too, had its share of
sightings, as her skies were suddenly adorned with amber ovals,
red BOLs (balls of light), and multi-colored whatnots. (See 'Red
Balls of... Light', and 'To Have or Have-Not', for a personal
account.)

I feel I'm keeping lofty company to have my tales of the
strange-but-true included among the likes of researchers of such
impressive caliber and credentials. Admittedly, my evidence for
the status of Oak Ridge, Tennessee, as a UFO hotspot is
anecdotal, but hey -- in the beginning was the word.....

-----

Urgent! Please help support the web sites:
Lunascan & NICAP
http://members.evansville.net/slk/dir.html
TransOrbital, Inc. (Return to the Moon!!!!)
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   May > May 23

                           Re: UFO Stats - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:22:32 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:43:08 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Ledger


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:48:28 -0500
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:47:54 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >>>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:08:38 -0500

 >>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:01:37 -0300
 >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:29:01 -0300
 >>>>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>><snip>

 >>>>Now if you get them in a setting where they are among 'friends'
 >>>>or fellow witnesses, they seem to get caught up in the
 >>>>excitement or fellowship of the event. They are then less
 >>>>reticent to talk. I'm sure most have noticed this.

 >>>If I mention UFOs in a group I hear giggles and subject
 >>>changes... thanks going to the conflicted mainstream, haunted
 >>>looks, heartfelt reports, and honest questions are _always_ one
 >>>on one.

 >>Been there as well. However in this instance I was referring to
 >>a friendly gathering of those already curious about the
 >>phenomenon and/or there to hear about it. But as you say, the
 >>one-on one meeting is the most productive. Less distractions
 >>and less chance of embarrassment.

 >Sorry, Mr. Ledger. I didn't respond very well. I was not
 >disagreeing, critiquing, or making correction. I was validating
 >your testimony with a disclosure of my own. Were he so moved,
 >Walter Cronkite could report "...that's the way it is..." for
 >the both of us.

And "You Are There." Think I was about 12 when Cronkite used to
say that.

No offence taken Mr.Lehmberg.

Regards,

Don Ledger








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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 04:05:08 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:06:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:07:02 -0300

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:02:45 +0200
 >>Subject: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>Source: Thee Under Ground, May 17, 2002.
 >>Updated on May 20, 2002

 >>http://www.theeunderground.com/ufo/

 >>Some of you will take offence at the occult aspect, but the
 >>author's findings are worth investigating.

 >>Stig

 >>***

 >>1947 FBI UFO PHOTO!

 >>PROOF THE US GOVERNMENT USED UFO TECHNOLOGY FOR STEALTH BOMBER!

 >>**

 >>Byline - D.E. Alexander Freelance Investigative Journalist and
 >>Author

 >>Special Assignment to Thee Under Ground

 >>May 17th 2002

 ><snip>

 >I have no idea who DE Alexander is, but there are many errors in
 >this item.

 >1. The Roswell crash certainly did NOT happen on July 7, 1947.
 >Mac Brazel was in Corona on July 5 at the local pool hall and
 >grocery store in Corona talking of what wreckage he had found a
 >few days before and in Roswell on July 6 at the Sheriff's office
 >with pieces of wreckage.

 >2. The Rhoad's picture is very well known and shows up all over.
 >DEA has a vivid imagination.

 >Stan Friedman


The date discrepancy is damning, that's true, but there might be
a connection, still, due to the proximity of time and place and
the similarity between the wedge-shape of the Rhodes craft and
the form most commonly attributed to the Roswell craft.

For an illustration and elaborate discussion of the Rhodes craft
go to Linda Moulton Howe's 'Earthfiles' site,

http://www.earthfiles.com/earth099.htm


Stig







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                        Re: Secrecy News -- 05/23/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 14:26:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:35:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Secrecy News -- 05/23/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 46
May 23, 2002


**      CONGRESS ADDS $1.5 BILLION FOR INTELLIGENCE
**      THE LIMITS OF INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT
**      APPROPRIATORS BLAST BUSH BUDGET "FLIPPANCY"


CONGRESS ADDS $1.5 BILLION FOR INTELLIGENCE

The 2002 supplemental appropriations bill that is now working
its way through Congress includes $1.5 billion for intelligence
and intelligence-related activities, according to an unscripted
disclosure on the House floor yesterday.

"With the $1.5 billion included in the supplemental,
intelligence funding has increased to record levels since
September 11," said Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX) on May 22.See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_cr/h052202.html

This would be fairly unremarkable except for the fact that
official mention of intelligence budget figures is considered
strictly verboten in the intelligence community.

The Central Intelligence Agency, which will apparently say just
about anything, even contends that disclosure of half century-
old budget totals from 1947 and 1948 would damage national
security and jeopardize intelligence sources and methods!This
remarkable claim is the subject of pending litigation against
the Agency.

The intelligence budget totals for 1997 and 1998 were officially
declassified several years ago in response to a lawsuit brought
by FAS and the Center for National Security Studies.But the
CIA recently denied a request for declassification of the 2002
intelligence budget total.This denial will be challenged in
federal court later this summer.


THE LIMITS OF INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT

The perennial question of intelligence budget disclosure
provides a key to comprehending the limits of intelligence
oversight, since the chairmen of the House and Senate
intelligence committees both supported budget disclosure before
assuming their chairmanship, but have actively or passively
opposed it thereafter.

Senator Bob Graham (D-FL), chairman of the Senate Intelligence
Committee, voted in favor of annual disclosure of the
intelligence budget total the last time the proposal came before
the Senate on June 19, 1997.But now that he is in a position
to actually do something about it, he has been silent.

Rep. Porter Goss (R-FL), chair of the House Intelligence
Committee, endorsed the unanimous recommendation of the 1996
Aspin-Brown-Rudman Commission, of which he was a member, calling
for annual disclosure of the intelligence budget appropriation -
- as well as the next year's budget request.Ever since then,
however, he has resisted any step to implement this
recommendation.

The clear implication is that service on the intelligence
committees entails a compromise of one's principles and a
subordination to one's best judgment to the demands of the
intelligence bureaucracy.

For this reason, the committees are probably incapable of
conducting a rigorous investigation of the institutional defects
that may have contributed to the terrorist attacks of September
11.An outside commission that is not locked in perpetual
negotiations with the intelligence agencies would be better
positioned for the task.


APPROPRIATORS BLAST BUSH BUDGET "FLIPPANCY"

The Bush Administration's budget requests have shown a "flagrant
and flippant disregard of the need to inform Congress,"
according to the new House Appropriations Committee report on
the latest supplemental appropriations bill for 2002.

Furthermore, "The Administration's supplemental request for the
Department of Defense was not accurate in several instances.
  For example, OMB requested additional funds for intelligence
related activities in incorrect and inappropriate accounts.In
order to execute the Administration's proposal for intelligence
programs, the Committee is recommending changes to specific
appropriation accounts," the report stated.

"The Committee expects that the Administration, and particularly
OMB, will take seriously the need to provide Congress with
timely and meaningful materials in support of its budget
requests.The flagrant and flippant disregard of the need to
inform Congress adequately must cease."

Notwithstanding this display of temper, the House Committee
approved almost all of the Administration's spending requests.
  See House Report 107-480, dated May 20, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_rpt/hrpt107-480.html


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the
message: subscribe secrecy_news


Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:saftergood@fas.org
voice:(202) 454-4691







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   May > May 24

               Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Sanchez

From: Jara Sanchez <bluestarchild@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:09:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:52:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Sanchez


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 00:09:34 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology

 >>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:14:44 -0500 (EST)
 >>Subject: Re: Black On Current State Of Ufology - Maccabee

 ><snip>

Hmm...

I do not want to press on this issue but I only want to say
something.....

I remember seeing a flim by Ed Walters on tv and on video. It
does not look right to me... more like a home-made to me.
Same thing goes for Billy Meier. I repeatly looked at Meier's
films... I do not believe him. I can tell they are home-made
films.

I have heard some people still resent and support Meier.
That's fine with me.

For me, case closed.

Regards,

Jara







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                        Oberg On Hare's Story - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:13:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:55:05 -0400
Subject: Oberg On Hare's Story - Young


Would you please post this comment by James Oberg?
Thanks.

Bob
-------

Eleanor [White] described her approach to my research, which is
to pretend it isn't there - but others might be interested in
the report I sent her:

Now, why would I be unwilling to believe the stories that
Dr. Greer has presented from one of his star witnesses,
Donna Hare? Again, without any reason to impugn her
intelligence, sincerity, or integrity, let me explain why I find
it impossible to believe her claims about secret UFO
information covered up at NASA.

Ms. Hare worked at the NASA center in Houston for a number
of years between the Apollo and the beginning of the Shuttle
program. She has testified that:

1.. She saw a space photograph with a UFO on it, and a
technician was airbrushing it out prior to public release.

2.. She was told (and clearly believed) that all space flights
were followed by UFOs but astronauts were sworn to secrecy and
threatened with grave punishments if they revealed it.

3.. She was told (and clearly believed) that there were space
photos showing a cattle mutilation in progress by a UFO, with
cattle in the field standing with their tails straight up in
alarm.

4. She was told (and clearly believed) that UFOs had been
responsible for crippling the Apollo-13 spacecraft, so as to
prevent it from reaching its intended landing area on the back
side of the Moon -- but then, the UFOs had further interfered by
aiding the doomed spaceship and making it possible for it to
return safely to Earth.

I cannot believe the first item, the only one of the four to
which she was a direct witness, because she described the
photograph as showing trees and their shadows, which allowed her
to determine the low altitude of the white circle she saw (and
which she described as "a metallic disk") from its shadow on the
ground.

 From what I know of NASA space photography, I believe it was
impossible then or now for NASA to produce Earth surface images
with sufficient detail to show a tree and its shadow. A vigorous
search by several ufo buffs recently for such pictures in NASA's
archives (the photo was described as being prepared for public
sale) failed to locate any.

Veteran NASA earth photography specialist Paul Lowman confirmed
this for me: "Your term =E2=80=98preposterous=E2=80=99 is right on. The
original Landsats had a ground resolution of 79 meters; Landsats
4 and 5 did better than that, around 30 meters or so. The Skylab
S190B camera (18 " focal length) could resolve small boats in
marinas on the Chicago lake front, and I think a 10 meter
resolution would account for that. But no NASA satellite of that
era, or for that matter of any era up to now, could resolve pine
trees or their shadows."

Ms. Hare then retorted that of course NASA had such pictures:
"We not only had the technology to see a number on a golf ball
back then, we used it in the Bay of Pigs -- remember? -- to see
Cuban/Russian missiles aimed at our country." (March 25, 1999)
Aside from a confusion of the Bay of Pigs with the Cuban Missile
Crisis, and the use at that time of U-2 spy planes, not
satellites, the additional confusion of what super-secret
military spy satellites could see and what NASA was interested
in and had in its possession, gives me additional confidence
that my disbelief in this story is logical.

On March 23, 1999, Ms. Hare restated her experience: "I worked
in the Nasa photo lab. I saw a satellite picture of the Earth,
and flying over the top of a tree covered field was a round
metal disk. Both the trees and the UFO cast shadows in the same
directions giving me an understanding of the shape and size of
the object. I was told by the photo lab tech the UFO would be
airbrushed out before the public would see those pictures. I
will swear to this in any court of law. I have absolutely no
reason to lie or deceive anyone about my experience. I swore
about my experience at NASA before Congress, and if I were lying
I could be placed in jail." Of course, there was no way to tell
if a white dot was =E2=80=98metal=E2=80=99, and also there is no law that
would put her in jail for =E2=80=98lying=E2=80=99 about it, and she did NOT
swear about her experience before Congress =E2=80=93 all of these are
non-factual elaborations of her original story.

Nor can I believe the claim about all astronauts seeing UFOs and
being ordered to cover it up. Aside from my personal research
into these bogus and confused stories -- see my home page for
links -- there is the testimony of Apollo-14 astronaut Edgar
Mitchell, a former supporter of Dr. Greer's efforts to dig into
this mystery. Mitchell has said that these astronaut UFO stories
are fiction, are untrue. Dr. Greer cannot expect us to believe
both Ms. Hare's claims and Dr. Mitchell's utterly contrary
assurances simultaneously. And by the way, Apollo-13 wasn't
headed for the back side of the Moon after all -- somebody with
a good grounding in the reality of space flight would have known
that and might have been embarrassed to repeat it.

Other claims from Ms. Hare involve coverup activities such as
threats to astronauts who have seen UFOs, and the total
disappearance of one man who had disclosed space UFO material to
her. Unfortunately Ms. Hare has not identified that
=E2=80=98disappeared=E2=80=99 man so that researchers can verify he has
really vanished.

Assuming Ms. Hare=E2=80=99s description of the comments to her are
accurate, is there any possible prosaic explanation why men
should tell her =E2=80=98UFO stories=E2=80=99? One fact which may help in
formulating a hypothesis is that she (under the name Donna
Tietze) was on public record as a UFO contactee counselor during
the same period she was allegedly being told these stories. She
was a Texas =E2=80=98Associate Director=E2=80=99 of the =E2=80=98UFO Contact
Center International (UFOCCI)=E2=80=99, a group that described itself
in 1981 as "a non-profit organization dedicated to helping
people who have had traumatic, bizarre experiences or sightings
of UFOs. A secondary goal of UFOCCI is to promote public
awareness of the UFO contactee phenomenon. UFOCCI works with
each contactee to help them understand their experiences via
hypnosis, group meetings and open seminars. Each year, over the
Labor Day weekend, UFOCCI conducts a conference called "Jorpah"
(which means 'Cosmic Gathering') in which the past year's
activities are summed up and discussed. These gatherings are
held at different places throughout the country. The date and
time of these conferences are announced in The "Missing Link"
newsletter."

Further, according to a published report of the STAR KNOWLEDGE
CONFERENCE in Sedona, Arizona, in 1999, "Donna Tietze Hare,
spoke about having an extraterrestrial encounter at age 25,
which altered her consciousness about the cosmos. Perhaps as a
consequence of that encounter, she then worked at Johnson Space
Center, Houston for NASA."

One might hypothesize that her views, which she had no reason to
hide, would be well known, and that people around her would
realize she enjoyed UFO stories of any kind.

During my conversations with Greer, and after i had raised these
questions, he waved me off with his hand and said, "I never
considered Hare's story very important anyway."  So we agreed.







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   May > May 24

                          Re: Capitol UFOs - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 02:23:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:05:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Capitol UFOs - Hebert


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:17:37 -0400
 >Subject: Re: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

 >>From: Conway Costigan <c_costigan@canada.com>
 >>To: canufo@yahoogroups.com
 >>Date: 18 May 2002 09:55:08 -0700
 >>Subject: [canufo] Re: Largest UFO Sighting Ever Recorded

 >The one photograph shown over and over again of the Capitol
 >building with a series of lights over it taken by a German
 >tourist, was conclusive demonstrated to be lens flares, a common
 >photographic phenomenon.

 >That does not stop this picture from being used over and over
 >again in various news stories.


Hi, Jan:

Just to test the theory that the lights photographed over the
Capitol building were lens flares, I found the photograph in
question, made it into a negative image to highlight the
brightest sources of light, marked the lights, copied the
section of lights in front of the building and superimposed that
section over the alleged UFOs and compared the lights on the
building to the lights in the sky - see image posted at:

http://ifo.s5.com/WashingtonUFO's.htm

If the lights in the sky were lens flares, they would closely
align with any source of illumination that might be causing the
flares. When I compared the lights in the sky to the lights on
the building (near the base of the building), I found the two
lines of lights in the sky appeared to be the same distance
apart as the lights on the building (A=B). In addition, by
moving the superimposed image around, many of the lights in the
sky would line up exactly with the lights on the building. Not
all the lights matched but this can happen with lens flares.

Most people associate lens flare with reflections from the sun.
  However, in the case of this photograph which was taken at
night, there is no sun but there are very bright lights on the
building that can cause lens flares. Dr. Maccabee could probably
explain this better than I as I am not an optical expert. One
web site I found slightly informative about lens flare is at
http://jonathanclark.com/diary/flare/.

I never knew the lights were lens flare and had never tested it
for myself. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

A. Hebert








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                    European UFO Journal - Press Release

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:23:21 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:15:12 -0400
Subject: European UFO Journal - Press Release

The "European Journal of UFO and Abduction Studies"
<ejufoas@totton.ac.uk> announces:

IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE

The European Journal of UFO and Abduction Studies (EJUFOAS) has
now published six part volumes since 1999 (two per year). We
like to publish high quality academic papers mainly from Europe
but we have published non-European work before. Below is a list
of papers that have been featured in EJUFOAS:

Launch Volume

"Project for a Database of Ball Lightning in Italy" (Paolo Toselli &
Renato Fedele)
"Preliminary Identifications of Alien Contact / Abduction
Experiences as Hallucinatory States Induced by Prolonged
Exposures to Electromagnetic Pollution in the Environment"
(Albert Budden)

"UFO Declassification: The Spanish Model" (Vicente-Juan
Ballester Olmos)

Volume 1(1)

"Physics from UFO Data" (Massimo Teodorani)
"United Kingdom UFO Organisations: What do they have knowledge
of and what do they investigate?" (Craig A. Roberts)


Volume 1(2)

"Data Analysis of Anomalous Luminous Phenomena in Hessdalen"
(Massimo Teodorani & Erling Strand)
"The Manises UFO File" (Juan Antonio Fernandez Peris)
"An Educational Programme for Ufology in the United Kingdom: The
Development of an Advanced Level Qualification in Ufology"
(Craig A. Roberts)
"Alien Abduction, Sleep Paralysis and the Temporal Lobe" (Susan
Blackmore & Marcus Cox)


Volume 2(1)

"The EMBLA 2000 Mission in Hessdalen" (Massimo Teodorani, Stelio
Montebugnoli & Jader Monari)
"Evaluation of Witness Reliability in the Trans-en-Provence UFO
Event: The Results of an Italian Enquiry" (Paolo Fiorino &
Matteo Leone)


Volume 2(2)

"Fantasy Proneness and other psychological correlates of UFO
experience" (Kathryn Gow, Janine Lurie, Stuart Coppin, Ary
Popper, Anthony Powell and Keith Basterfield)
"New UFO cases, statistics update and a few thoughts" (Hannes la Rue)
"Flying saucers: Behind the cold war veil of military intelligence"
(Michael Hall with Wendy Connors)
"A close encounter of the 3rd kind in Romania" (Dan Farcas)


Volume 3(1)

"Flying saucers: Behind the cold war veil of military
intelligence (part II)" (Michael Hall with Wendy Connors)
"Icefalls investigated by the Anomaly Foundation" (Fundacion
Anomalia)
"Anomalous luminous phenomena" (Erol Erkmen)
"Canadian UFO survey indicates increase in UFO sightings, lack of
attention" (Chris Rutkowski)

We are always looking for new papers to review  please visit:

www.cisu.org/ejpres.htm

or

www.ufoinfo.com/magazines/uk.shtml

to view submission details, subscription prices and abstracts of
previous papers. Hopefully you will find something of interest
and send in your papers for blind-review.

If English is not your first language, I can help you with any
grammatical problems before review and/or publication so please
submit work for my inspection so that a wider audience can read
your work.

If you have any enquiries about EJUFOAS, please email me at

ejufoas@totton.ac.uk

and I will reply as soon as possible.
Please feel free to post this press release to interested
parties. I look forward to hearing from you soon.


Craig Roberts BSc (Hons), PGCE
Editor-in-Chief of the European Journal of UFO and Abduction
Studies.







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               Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction -

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:40:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:18:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction -


 >From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:08:58 EDT
 >Subject: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction

 >SOURCE: EFE News Agency
 >DATE: May 17, 2002

 >Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction in Southern Chile

 >** The light that hovered over his car made him pass out. When
 >he woke up, he was over 10 km. from where the encounter
 >occured**

 >Santiago, May 14 (EFE)--An electrician claims having been
 >abducted by a UFO while traveling by car between two towns in
 >southern Chile.

<snip>

Hello Louise:

I just wanted to point out one thing here.  While telling
us about this strange abduction/encounter, the EFE
writers announce:

 >Chile , a nation of 15.5 million inhabitants, ranks
 >fifth among the countries having the greatest number of
 >UFO sightings, after the USA, Peru, Brazil and Russia.

Five countries, five rankings for greatest number of UFO
sightings, and only one of them right.

With a score like that (20%) how well do you suppose they did
with the abduction account, and other info as presented?    It
gives me pause.

No big surprise though.  News types are always writing stuff
like that.  I would be embarrassed, but I'm no journalist.

What I do have are UFO sightings dating back to antiquity,
17,850 odd filtered records.  Here are my top twelve national
rankings in case anyone cares:

1)  USA:       7748 events.
2)  France:    2298 (does not include overseas Depts)
3)  Britain:   1175 (includes Northern Ireland.)
4)  Canada:     680
5)  Australia:  623
6)  Brazil:     547
7)  Spain:      360
8)  Argentina:  287
9)  China:      229 (Mainland only)
10) Russia:     180 (217 including CIS nations)
11) New Zealand 154
12) Portugal:   126  .. and so on.

Peru in second place? No mention of France or the UK?   I have a
total of 59 events for Peru, way down the list; some quite
interesting BTW.

Once again, here are the EFE News Agency rankings - they
provided no case counts:

1) USA
2) Peru
3) Brazil
4) Russia
5) Chile.

Chile does have 94 listings here, a considerable number, and not
a chupacabra among them.

One might well argue that EFE has access to Latin America data
than I do. I certainly hope so.

Where does EFE get their numbers for Russia? It took me 17 years
of hard work to get a paltry 180 listable Russian events, and no
doubt many of those are junk.



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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                         Re: OZ UFO Images - Beacham

From: Chris Beacham <cbeacham@ihug.com.au>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 20:27:56 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:22:23 -0400
Subject: Re: OZ UFO Images - Beacham

 >From: Chris Beacham <cbeacham@ihug.com.au>
 >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:39:51 +1000
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:14:10 -0400
 >Subject: Re: OZ UFO Images - Beacham

 >Hi All,

 >I videoed a good sighting yesterday morning at about 6.30am on
 >Avalon Beach, Sydney.


I posted a couple of pics of yesterday's sighting:

http://www.surfin.com.au/updates.html







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              Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:24:40 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:23:51 -0400
Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -


 >From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@canada.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: 23 May 2002 13:32:07 -0700
 >Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

 >>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:03:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

<snip>

 >>On Errol's radio show James said that his father's book 'The New
 >>Science', which was published after Wilbert's death in 1962, was
 >>no longer in print. I just want to say that Wilbert's book (1964,
 >>by Murl Smith, copyright reserved and printed in Canada by Fenn-
 >>Graphic Publishing Company Limited and reprinted by Keith Press,
 >>1978) can be obtained through 'Planetary Association for Clean
 >>Energy'.

 >The book is also now on the web at

 >http://www.rexresearch.com/smith/newsci~1.htm

I continue to get requests for Wilbert Smith's book 'The New
Science' which was posthumously published in its uncompleted
form. Thanks Grant for telling us about this web site where
Wilbert's book has been reproduced.

For the UFO UpDates readers who wrote directly to me asking for
further details about Wilbert's book, let me summarize what
parts of the book he never got around to finish. Under 'Section
Three: PRINCIPLES AND TECHNOLOGY OF OTHER RACES', Wilbert did
not get to complete the following:

Part IV Multiplicity of Spin Centers

  4.4 Summation of Divergence of Spin
  4.5 Summation of Curl of Spin

Part V Reality and Forces

  5.1 Definition of Force
  5.2 Changing Reality
  5.3 Work and Energy

There are no technicial drawings or detailed descriptions of the
many experiments Wilbert preformed together with other
scientists using the what was learned through "The Boys
Topside". Although any detailed lab notes or final reports of
these experiments are not found at the University of Ottawa
archives, there are many brief references to some drawings about
them. A search through the personal papers of the scientists
(many of whom I have been able to identify) which took part in
these truly amazing and historic experiments may be more
fruitful than going through Wilbert's incomplete records at the
UofO archives.

I have interested some colleagues here to attempt to repeat some
these same experiments to see if we could reproduce their
results and if so, try to improve on them (especially one
experiment that may allow use to communicate directly with "The
Boys Topside" if they are still listening on the radio
frequencies Wilbert used! Those with technical skills and all
others volunteers who wish to participate in or audit these
experiments are welcome.

According to the introduction in the printed version of this
book which I have, it says that "Although he [Wilbert] did not
profess affiliation to any particular religion, his belief in
God in the continuation of human existence and progress was
unwavering.". I find it very interesting how after after four
decades, physics has embraced many of Smith's concepts about the
nature of the universe, views (such as same number of multiple
dimensions for example) which are also clearly alluded to in the
Bible. It is amusing to note that scientists now seem to be in
more agreement with their fellow theologians than with their
more traditional scientist colleagues.


Nick Balaskas







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                          Re: UFO Stats - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 20:38:05 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:28:09 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Goldstein


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:08:38 -0500

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:01:37 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:29:01 -0300
 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 ><snip>

 >>Now if you get them in a setting where they are among 'friends'
 >>or fellow witnesses, they seem to get caught up in the
 >>excitement or fellowship of the event. They are then less
 >>reticent to talk. I'm sure most have noticed this.

 >If I mention UFOs in a group I hear giggles and subject
 >changes... thanks going to the conflicted mainstream, haunted
 >looks, heartfelt reports, and honest questions are _always_ one
 >on one.

 >Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Alfred,

Here you go again with your gripes at "the mainstream". A good
reason why people laugh has to do with non-mainstream circuses
such as the upcoming  "UFO and Paranormal" conference in Seattle
that was described in a newspaper article posted by Stig
Agermose. When it features such BSers like Dr. James Harder (I
knew him when I was in the Bay Area of California and his false
claims made me laugh and be outraged at his foolishness), and
Sean David Morton ( a real nutcase).

How about the post that Stig recently placed on the list where
it was claimed that a photograph allegedly of a UFO taken on
July 7, 1947 "proves Roswell"?  I'll bet Jan Aldrich was really
laughing at that claim. Just follow the links into the websites
that came from and you will see some really weird stuff. Lots of
laughs. I am not laughing at Stig because he is not a fool and
he posted disclaimers.

How about laughing at the idea that Art Bell is really laughing,
taking a lot of naive people on a sucker's ride for
entertainment?

Let's really laugh at the people who would pay hard earned money
to slick hustlers preying on their naivete. I am laughing so
hard that it makes me cry that there are so many naive people
unable to think on a deeper level. I am laughing and crying over
the fact that all the above crap has made the UFO subject a
laughing matter rather than worthy of serious study with
discernment. All that crap has done a lot more harm to the UFO
field and to the public than "the mainstream" has done.

How about laughing at the absurd positions of Stephen Bassett
and Steven Greer that they present to the government and to the
public? That's a good chuckle.

How about me laughing at you for for your turns of the word that
are full of accusations but contain no factual substance? Or
should I laugh at you for publicly appealing for funds for John
Ford without you presenting any real evidence that he is
unjustly charged?

No, I don't want to laugh at ignorance and naivete'. I am sad
that so many people don't think at a higher level and are
suckers for obvious hustles by nuts. I can easily see why a lot
of people laugh

at the subject. It is so polluted by BS that it really stinks.

I applaud Royce Meyers' efforts to put out the truth on some of
these fraudulent characters. But based on the history of Ufology
and the study of psychology I don't hold out any hope for a
unified front or organization to present enough evidence in a
fashion so that some people no longer laugh at the subject. That
is sad.


Josh









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              Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 19:47:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:30:08 -0400
Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:18:24 -0400
 >Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

 >>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:03:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

<snip>

 >The point is, abductees have been reporting phenomena that
 >Wilbert Smith (in his time) was studying and working with in
 >secret way back in the 50's. I'm certain that 'contamination' of
 >the psyche's of today's abductees could not have come from
 >knowledge of Wilbert Smith and the experiments/studies he was
 >carrying out in Canada.

 >Gravity manipulation and time distortion, two details that
 >abductees report that were also a part of Smith's investigations
 >decades ago.

John

Ignore me again if you choose, but the fact is that speculation
about "gravity drives" and such has been a very prominent part
of the public mythology since almost year one. Anybody familiar
with the early literature knows that. And I've no wish to
devalue your personal experience, but to hear time distortion
introduced as though it were some newly-isolated invariant that
needs bringing to people's attention is depressing: - The fact
that this is a centuries-old standard motif in tales of
supernatural abduction all over the world was a novel ufological
discovery over 30 years ago! It isn't up to you to explain this,
sure; but what does it say for the rest of us and for the
maturity of the collective wisdom on this subject that it is
possible for such issues to seem novel on a list like this?


Regards

Martin Shough







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                  Re: Alien Autopsy Film Review - Vetterick

From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 14:13:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:32:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Film Review - Vetterick


As you all know, we concluded our AA Film review project and
have posted the CD's and Web site being available to the public
now, to a variety of related internet discussion lists.

This was picked up by a San Diego news service who called me for
a phone interview that lasted about 30 minutes. They did a write
up that hit the wires this morning. It got results as I've been
contacted by 2 radio stations, Syracuse and Vegas, and I'll be
doing a live interview Tuesday 7:50 AM local time on KSFN Vegas.

However......

WOW, being a total greenhorn to this, did I ever learn a lesson
the hard way. I should have asked to see the write up before it
went out, because I was none too happy about the wording. I
never said any of this stuff and certainly not the way it got
written up. Cripes, it makes me sound like a %$#@ degenerate. Oh
well, lesson learned, which many of you on this list learned
long ago.

For your weekend reading amusement I thought I'd send along, if
EBK will indulge the length of this post, the "News Wire" that
went out followed by my reply to the guy who wrote it.

Have a great holiday weekend.

Dave Vetterick

========================

Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:58:39 -0700
To: vetterick@ix.netcom.com
From: David Moye <dmoye@flashnews.com>

Uncut E.T. T&A Footage Finally Available

HOUSTON (Wireless Flash) -- A new CD-ROM may help answer an
important question: Is E.T. a he or a she? Houston-based UFO
researcher Dave Vetterick is selling a homemade UFO-oriented CD-
ROM that he claims contains actual footage of an alien autopsy
that took place in 1947, after the supposed saucer crash in
Roswell, New Mexico.

Some of the footage appeared on Fox TV specials that aired in
1995, but Vetterick claims the network left out lots of gory
footage of E.T.'s brains, organs and poop.

Vetterick's version also includes close-up shots of the alien's
sex organs and, based on frame-by-frame inspection, he thinks
the E.T. is female.

The "Alien Autopsy" CD-ROM marks the first time in 55 years the
alien dissection has been made public in uncut form, but it
won't be a best seller since he only plans to produce 1000
copies.

================================

My Reply:

Hi David....Thanks.

I DO appreciate your picking this up and doing a press release.
However, I guess I should have asked to review this in advance.

Just in case you can redo this or if you get any calls about it,
I'd like to clarify a couple of things.

Entitling this "T&A" is totally inappropriate. A very
unfortunate choice on your part.

I'm not claiming this is authentic. It is claimed to be by the
man how sold the reels to Ray Santilli. No one has been able to
prove beyond any doubt either way its actual or a fake , which
is what I find most interesting.

Better wording would be: "UFO-oriented CD-ROM that is claimed to
be actual footage"

I also didn't say Fox left out LOTS of gory footage. They did in
my opinion leave out SOME of the graphic details. Namely and
understandably the genitalia area of the body was blurred out.
Overall, Fox did a good job presenting this.

AND use of the word "poop" was yours not mine. I wish that word
had not been used as it degrades from the whole issue.

The CD's don't include "close-up" shots of sex organs. Only what
was blurred out in the Fox airing. The genitalia of the creature
is similar to that of a human female. This doesn't mean I or
anyone should conclude the creature IS female, or that it even
has any reproductive capacity.

Best Regards,

Dave Vetterick







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                          Re: UFO Stats - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:13:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:46:42 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Lehmberg


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 20:38:05 +0200
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 08:08:38 -0500

 >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:01:37 -0300
 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:29:01 -0300
 >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >><snip>

 >>>Now if you get them in a setting where they are among 'friends'
 >>>or fellow witnesses, they seem to get caught up in the
 >>>excitement or fellowship of the event. They are then less
 >>>reticent to talk. I'm sure most have noticed this.

 >>If I mention UFOs in a group I hear giggles and subject
 >>changes... thanks going to the conflicted mainstream, haunted
 >>looks, heartfelt reports, and honest questions are _always_ one
 >>on one.

 >Here you go again with your gripes at "the mainstream". A good
 >reason why people laugh has to do with non-mainstream circuses
 >such as the upcoming "UFO and Paranormal" conference in Seattle
 >that was described in a newspaper article posted by Stig
 >Agermose. When it features such BSers like Dr. James Harder (I
 >knew him when I was in the Bay Area of California and his false
 >claims made me laugh and be outraged at his foolishness), and
 >Sean David Morton ( a real nutcase).

The mainstream is the mainstream is the mainstream, Mr.
Goldstein. It discredits _itself_. If you think that it is fair,
evenhanded, balanced, and rational then I think that says more
about you than about me. Moreover, I won't be remotely effected
by what you consider BS, one way or the other. Rest assured
about that. Additionally, I won't take responsibility for
ufological buffoonery I don't sanction. None that you have
mentioned has achieved that.

 >How about the post that Stig recently placed on the list where
 >it was claimed that a photograph allegedly of a UFO taken on
 >July 7, 1947 "proves Roswell"? I'll bet Jan Aldrich was really
 >laughing at that claim. Just follow the links into the websites
 >that came from and you will see some really weird stuff. Lots of
 >laughs. I am not laughing at Stig because he is not a fool and
 >he posted disclaimers.

I'm sure SA is weak with relief that you're not laughing at him.
I know _I_ would be.

 >How about laughing at the idea that Art Bell is really laughing,
 >taking a lot of naive people on a sucker's ride for
 >entertainment?

...and this has to do with...?

 >Let's really laugh at the people who would pay hard earned money
 >to slick hustlers preying on their naivete. I am laughing so
 >hard that it makes me cry that there are so many naive people
 >unable to think on a deeper level. I am laughing and crying over
 >the fact that all the above crap has made the UFO subject a
 >laughing matter rather than worthy of serious study with
 >discernment. All that crap has done a lot more harm to the UFO
 >field and to the public than "the mainstream" has done.

...Someone needs a nap, Mr. Goldstein. This does not speak to
the alacrity of your worshipped mainstream.

 >How about laughing at the absurd positions of Stephen Bassett
 >and Steven Greer that they present to the government and to the
 >public? That's a good chuckle.

You're right! Embrace the mainstream!

 >How about me laughing at you for for your turns of the word
that
 >are full of accusations but contain no factual substance?

...still haven't found that delete key?

 >Or
 >should I laugh at you for publicly appealing for funds for John
 >Ford without you presenting any real evidence that he is
 >unjustly charged?

... jeez -- is it that hard to put two and two together? There
is only circumstantial evidence that John did what he allegedly
did, while his accuser is a criminal, in _fact_. The money's for
a stake when he gets out of jail. I'd sure appreciate someone
doing something like that for me. I don't think you've looked
into this very carefully, at all.

 >No, I don't want to laugh at ignorance and naivete'. I am sad
 >that so many people don't think at a higher level and are
 >suckers for obvious hustles by nuts. I can easily see why a lot
 >of people laugh at the subject. It is so polluted by BS that it
 >really stinks.

...thank your corrupted, contrived, and likely criminal
mainstream. How's _that_ for a turn of words.

 >I applaud Royce Meyers' efforts to put out the truth on some of
 >these fraudulent characters. But based on the history of Ufology
 >and the study of psychology I don't hold out any hope for a
 >unified front or organization to present enough evidence in a
 >fashion so that some people no longer laugh at the subject. That
 >is sad.

Your blithe embrace of a hijacked mainstream is decidedly
sadder.

TTFN.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
  ~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.









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                                  X-45 UCAV

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 20:52:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:48:52 -0400
Subject: X-45 UCAV


Hi List,

Since the USAF has successfully launched and recovered a
remotely operated vehicle at Edwards AFB we can now, no doubt,
expect have these thrown into the mix as possible UFOs.

Don't believe it.

These aircraft will be transported [by C-5As etc.] to a military
hot zone and deployed with built in programming. They are not
remotely controlled but remotely programmed to carry out their
mission and are to some degree autonomous. Other than being
tested in remote locations like Edwards AFB or CFB Cold Lake,
Alberta you will never see them zipping around your
neighborhood.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Have a peek at:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ucav.htm

or:

http://users.chariot.net.au/~theburfs/URboeingucav.html

or:

http://www.boeing.com/phantom/ucav.html


Don Ledger







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                          Secrecy News -- 05/24/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 13:33:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:51:07 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/24/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 47
May 24, 2002


**      ANNUAL POLYGRAPH REPORT PUBLISHED
**      FREEDOM OF INFORMATION IN JAPAN, MEXICO
**      PENTAGON REPORTS ON SECRET 1960s BIO EXPERIMENTS


ANNUAL POLYGRAPH REPORT PUBLISHED

The Department of Defense this week released its Annual
Polygraph Report for 2001, reaffirming the Department's
commitment to polygraph testing as an instrument of
counterintelligence and criminal investigations as well as for
security screening.

The Report provides a fresh set of anecdotes in which polygraph
tests helped resolve criminal cases or uncover security
violations, and sets forth an ambitious research program
intended to bolster the technology's widely disputed
credibility.

The latest Report, obtained today under the Freedom of
Information Act, is available here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/dod-2001.html

In recent years, polygraph testing has become the target of
increasingly focused and sophisticated criticism, notably from
George Maschke and his colleagues at Antipolygraph.org.  See:

http://www.antipolygraph.org/

Yet agency reliance on polygraph testing has hardly diminished.
  Most recently, the FBI indicated that it would ask at least 200
workers at Fort Detrick and Dugway Proving Grounds to take
polygraph tests as part of the search for the elusive anthrax
terrorist.  See "Anthrax Probe Turns to Polygraph" by Megan
Garvey and Eric Lichtblau in the May 22 Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-000036059may22.story

A noteworthy critique of the polygraph was offered by Aldrich
Ames in a November 2000 letter that he wrote to the Federation
of American Scientists from Allenwood Federal Penitentiary in
Pennsylvania, where he is serving a life sentence for espionage.
  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/ames.html


FREEDOM OF INFORMATION IN JAPAN, MEXICO

The National Security Archive has just published updated
resources on new freedom of information laws in Japan and
Mexico.

See "Japanese Government Information: New Rules for Access":

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/foia/japanfoia.html

and "Mexico's New Freedom of Information Law" featuring the full
text of the law in Spanish and English:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB68/


PENTAGON REPORTS ON SECRET 1960s BIO EXPERIMENTS

The Defense Department disclosed this week that it had conducted
experiments involving the use of active nerve agents and
biological toxins on military personnel in the 1960s in order to
study U.S. vulnerabilities to such substances.

"Project SHAD, an acronym for Shipboard Hazard and Defense, was
part of the joint service chemical and biological warfare test
program conducted during the 1960s. Project SHAD encompassed
tests designed to identify US warships' vulnerabilities to
attacks with chemical or biological warfare agents and to
develop procedures to respond to such attacks while maintaining
a war-fighting capability," according to the Defense Department.

See the newly declassified data on the Project SHAD web page here:

http://deploymentlink.osd.mil/current_issues/shad/shad_intro.shtml

See also "Sailors Sprayed with Nerve Gas in Cold War Test, Pentagon
Says," by Thom Shanker with William Broad in the May 24 New York Times
here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/24/politics/24NERV.html


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the
message: subscribe secrecy_news

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
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                          Good Alien vs. Bad Alien

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@canada.com>
Date: 24 May 2002 19:02:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:36:05 -0400
Subject: Good Alien vs. Bad Alien


Good Alien vs. Bad Alien

http://presidentialufo.com/good_bad_alien.htm

Throughout the 50+ odd years of UFO sighting reports, a close
study would show that there have been definite patterns both on
the alien side, and on the government side.

Speaking of the alien side - One example of this would be the
lack of humanoid sightings in today's UFO reports compared to
reports of the fifties and sixties, or the case of "Physical
Trace Cases." According to Ted Phillips, who is the world expert
on the phenomena, "during the peak years there was an average of
one UFO/trace event every two days. This was during the late
1960's through the early 1980's. Since that time the numbers and
quality have dropped to below 20 a year and that would be a good
year." In the year 2001, there was not a single confirmed
"landing-trace case."

Another apparent pattern that has occurred in Ufology is the
dominance of the space brothers in the 1950's who were kind,
interacted with people who became known as contactees, and took
people for rides in their space crafts.

This pattern changed dramatically with the abduction of Betty
and Barney Hill in the early 1960's. The space brother human
types of the 1950's seemed to fade away, and they were replaced
in the UFO literature with another type of alien.

In the early sixties the first abduction of the Hills began a
new pattern where the aliens were grey "evil" aliens who would
abduct people against their will, and perform medical procedures
on them. There were, as far as this author is aware no confirmed
cases of "classic" abductions in the 1950's.

Unlike the "good" space brothers of the 1950's these grey aliens
were described, by all who were unfortunate enough to have met
with them, as being distant and without emotions.

Mrs. Francis Swan, was a contactee for one of the space brother
aliens in the 1950's. She was studied more than most by the
American government as a link to a possible understanding of who
the aliens were, and why they were coming to earth. She
symbolized contact with the space brothers who had arrived to
"save the planet from atomic weapons."

In the early 1960's after the Hill abduction, the National
Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomena took up the Hill
case for investigation. There was some disagreement within NICAP
how legitimate the case might be because of the bizarre new
nature of the tale. NICAP really didn't know what to do.

Vice-Admiral Herbert Knowles, was a NICAP board member who had
been in contact with Mrs. Hill trying to help her come to grips
with what had happened to her. He also had been the NICAP board
member who had been the leading investigator of the Francis Swan
contact when it began in 1954.

Part of his interest in the two cases lay in the fact that he
lived very close to the two women, one who was a key symbol of
the 1950 space brothers, and one who was the prime symbol of the
new greys. The two key women, in fact, lived less than five
miles from each other along the New Hampshire/Maine border.

In his work with Betty Hill, Knowles suggested that he put the
two women together for a meeting. He felt that the experienced
Mrs. Swan could comfort Mrs. Hill, and explain to her why that
the aliens were here, and that there was nothing to fear from
the encounter she had experienced.

To everyone's surprise, when Knowles approached Mrs. Hill with
the idea, Mrs. Swan flat out refused any meeting in any form.
"Mrs. Hill," Mrs. Swan told Knowles was in contact with the
"evil ones," and not the "good ones" that she had been involved
with. She would have nothing to do with Hill and her little grey
aliens.

Thus, just as the greys were making their appearance on the UFO
stage, Mrs. Swan had already pointed them out as evil entities
that were here to cause trouble. It appears that as the stories
of the greys has developed, many researchers would agree with
Mrs. Swan's early assessment.

In an effort to try and explore this transition from the blonds
of the 50's to the greys of the 60's, this author questioned
Mrs. Swan in the late 1980s to explain the difference between
the "good" aliens and the "evil" aliens. It was hoped Mrs. Swan
might elaborate on just why the space brothers had disappeared
and how and why the grays emerged on the UFO scene.

Mrs. Swan, however, would add nothing to my new theory about how
the alien types had developed. Her advice was simple and
biblical. "The 'good ones' work for God," she told me, and the
'evil ones' work for the devil. Read your Bible."

The search for an explanation to the pattern continues.


The Presidents UFO Story
www.presidentialufo.com







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                  Re: Alien Autopsy Film Review - Vetterick

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 22:26:44 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:40:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Film Review - Vetterick



 >From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com>
 >To: UFO Update <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 14:13:32 -0500
 >Subject: Alien Autopsy Film Review

 >As you all know, we concluded our AA Film review project and
 >have posted the CD's and Web site being available to the public
 >now, to a variety of related internet discussion lists.

 >This was picked up by a San Diego news service who called me for
 >a phone interview that lasted about 30 minutes. They did a write
 >up that hit the wires this morning. It got results as I've been
 >contacted by 2 radio stations, Syracuse and Vegas, and I'll be
 >doing a live interview Tuesday 7:50 AM local time on KSFN Vegas.

 >However......

 >WOW, being a total greenhorn to this, did I ever learn a lesson
 >the hard way. I should have asked to see the write up before it
 >went out, because I was none too happy about the wording. I
 >never said any of this stuff and certainly not the way it got
 >written up. Cripes, it makes me sound like a %$#@ degenerate. Oh
 >well, lesson learned, which many of you on this List learned
 >long ago.

 >For your weekend reading amusement I thought I'd send along, if
 >EBK will indulge the length of this post, the "News Wire" that
 >went out followed by my reply to the guy who wrote it.

<snip>

Can't the mainstream press do better than this, if only
occasionally? Dave's AA CD project is the only truly unbiased
and sober look at the purported dissection I've seen, and this
writer chooses to dwell on the "genitalia issue" instead of
offering anything of substance.

A reader might very well get the impression that Dave
Vetterick is, at best,

a.) a profiteer without the originality to do anything
other than rake up an issue presumably "dead" since
1995

or, at worst,

b.) some sort of pervert who spends time poring over
close ups of alleged alien genitalia.

I'm glad to see Dave reacted to this with amusement.
Others might not be so well-mannered, and I can't say
I'd blame them.

--Mac







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              Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 02:52:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:48:14 -0400
Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -


 >From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 19:47:30 +0100
 >Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:18:24 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

 >>>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:03:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

 ><snip>

 >>The point is, abductees have been reporting phenomena that
 >>Wilbert Smith (in his time) was studying and working with in
 >>secret way back in the 50's. I'm certain that 'contamination' of
 >>the psyche's of today's abductees could not have come from
 >>knowledge of Wilbert Smith and the experiments/studies he was
 >>carrying out in Canada.

 >>Gravity manipulation and time distortion, two details that
 >>abductees report that were also a part of Smith's investigations
 >>decades ago.

Hello Mr. Shough

You wrote:

 >John

 >Ignore me again if you choose,

Again? This is the first time I've ever read a post from you. I
don't read _every_ post. I usually just scan for subject titles
that might interest me and for posts to threads that I am taking
part in.

Gee, is it possible that considering the number of posts that
arrive from UFO UpDates on a daily basis that I may have missed
reading the post you claim I "ignored"?

It never ceases to amaze me how some people automatically assume
the worst case possible and then go with it as if it was
actually based in fact. News-flash, this is the first time I
have ever seen your name on any post to this List. You could
have knocked me over with a feather when I read your accusation
that I had at some time "ignored" you. Man, I didn't "ignore"
you. I don't even know you.

 >about "gravity drives" and such has been a very prominent part
 >of the public mythology since almost year one. Anybody familiar
 >with the early literature knows that. And I've no wish to
 >devalue your personal experience, but to hear time distortion
 >introduced as though it were some newly-isolated invariant that
 >needs bringing to people's attention is depressing: -

A lot of this stuff is relatively new to me. Don't allow my
naivete on the subject to 'depress' you so.

 >It isn't up to you to explain this, sure; but what does it say for
 >the rest of us and for the maturity of the collective wisdom on
 >this subject that it is possible for such issues to seem novel on
 >a list like this?

It's 'novel' for me. But then I can't speak for anybody else.


John Velez







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               Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction -

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 00:00:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:51:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction -


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:40:05 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction

<snip>

 >..  Here are my top twelve national
 >rankings in case anyone cares:

 >1)  USA:       7748 events.
 >2)  France:    2298 (does not include overseas Depts)
 >3)  Britain:   1175 (includes Northern Ireland.)
 >4)  Canada:     680
 >5)  Australia:  623
 >6)  Brazil:     547
 >7)  Spain:      360
 >8)  Argentina:  287
 >9)  China:      229 (Mainland only)
 >10) Russia:     180 (217 including CIS nations)
 >11) New Zealand 154
 >12) Portugal:   126  .. and so on.

<snip>

Hello again All,

Before anyone else discovers my terrible mistake, I forgot to
include Italy in my all-stars list!

The revised list of 12 countries with the highest number of UFO
sightings listed in the *U* Database should read:

1)  USA:       7748 events.
2)  France:    2298 (does not include overseas Depts)
3)  Britain:   1175 (includes Northern Ireland.)
4)  Canada:     680
5)  Australia:  623
6)  Brazil:     547
7)  Italy       532 (Many well investigated.)
8)  Spain:      360
9)  Argentina:  287
10) China:      229 (Mainland only)
11) Russia:     180 (217 including CIS nations)
12) New Zealand 154  .. and so on.


I must have been dozing, sorry.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                    Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 08:07:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:05:48 -0400
Subject: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1


Except from

Stargate SG1 - The Illustrated Companion Seasons 1 and 2
- Thomasina Gibson - August 2001

The references in the episode ('Touchstone') to Area 51, the
real-life, ultra-top-secret Air Force base in the Nevada desert,
caused some problems with the powers-that-be, who proved rather
sensitive.

"Originally, in the script, we had O'Neill saying something
like, "Is this where we keep the little green men?" Jonathan
Glassner reveals. "But the Air Force has full approval of all
our scripts, and they called back and said, "There are no aliens
in Area 51. You can't keep that line in." I explained that it
was a joke, but they just repeated. "There are no aliens in Area
51." So I then asked if I could use their response in the
script!

We actually ended up going with O'Neill saying, "Is this where
they keep the aliens?" and the officer replies, "There are no
aliens in Area 51." Then O'Neill looks at Teal'c and says,
"Present company excluded."


--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                          Roswell UFO Festival 2002

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 12:43:12 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:07:34 -0400
Subject: Roswell UFO Festival 2002


Source: PR Newswire, May 24, 2002,

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=3D104&STORY=3D/www/story/0=
5-24-2002/0001734912&EDATE=3D

Stig

***

Was it Just a Weather Balloon, or Something a Little More Out of
This World?

Roswell UFO Festival 2002 - After 55 Years, the Mystery
Continues

**

ROSWELL, N.M., May 24 /PRNewswire/ -- E.T.'s family will "phone
home" to Roswell this Fourth of July weekend for the annual UFO
Festival which began in 1997. Dee Wallace Stone, who played
Elliott's mother on the beloved Steven Spielberg classic "E.T.
The Extra Terrestrial," headlines a weekend that's all about the
aliens in Roswell, NM.

Thousands of visitors from around the world will once again
descend upon Roswell, New Mexico for the festival, which runs
from July 4 through July 7, 2002. The theme for this year, After
55 Years, the Mystery Continues, encourages visitors to do some
research and come to their own conclusion about the mysterious
object that landed in Roswell 55 years ago.

During the first week of July in 1947, a New Mexico rancher
discovered metal debris and a large trench, several hundred feet
long, while checking on his sheep. He reported the debris to
authorities, who released information that a "crashed disk" had
been discovered. Later, the information was amended, saying that
wreckage was the remains of a weather balloon, not a flying
saucer. The activities of that time would come to be known as
the "Roswell Incident." And, to this day, there are those that
believe that the government is covering up knowledge of aliens.

Highlights of the weeklong festivities include the Electric
Light UFO Parade, the UFO/Alien Ball, the Alien Marketplace of
sci-fi vendor booths, an alien costume contest, guest speakers,
puppet shows, model airplanes, night golf and the Alien Chase 5K
and 10K walk/run and of course -- aliens.

The Roswell Spacewalk allows the young and the young at heart to
get a glimpse of the past, present and future. Blacklights will
illuminate art created, painted and installed by Roswell
volunteers that takes viewers from 1947 to the present and
beyond.

Get a glimpse of hundreds of aliens trekking through Main Street
in this year's Alien Parade. Spectators from around the world
converge on the city to watch aliens of all shapes and sizes
from galaxies near and far revel in the alien fun. Prizes will
be awarded for extraterrestrial creativity.

Experts on UFO phenomena from around the country will present
symposiums, round-table discussions and lectures at the
International UFO Museum and Research Center and the Roswell
Convention Center. George Fawcett will speak about recent UFO
happenings and their implications on July 5 at 1 p.m. At 7 p.m.,
Jim Moseley will present "True Weird Personal Experiences of a
Skeptical Believer." Stanton Friedman will speak at 7 p.m. on
July 6. Friedman, one of the most recognized and respected UFO
experts in North America, is an author and nuclear physicist and
is often referred to as the "Father of Roswell." Dee Wallace
Stone of "E.T. The Extra Terrestrial" fame, will celebrate the
20th anniversary of the movie by appearing at all major events
to sign autographs and speak with fans and aliens alike.

Music at this year's festival includes R&B, jump, funk and swing
music by Chris Daniels and the Kings, as well as Native American
flutist Doug Bluefeather, and MIB which will rattle Roswell with
its space-age symphonic rock.

 From UFOs to culture, Roswell, New Mexico has something for
everyone. Visitors can indulge in Southwestern cuisine, art and
entertainment. With numerous parks and beautiful weather year
round, Roswell offers small-town charm with an endless variety
of activities for all ages. For more information call the
Roswell Chamber of Commerce at (505) 623-5695 or visit online
at:

http://www.roswell-nm.com


SOURCE City of Roswell
Web Site: http://www.roswell-nm.com

**

Issuers of news releases and not PR Newswire are solely
responsible for the accuracy of the content.

Copyright =A9 1996-2002 PR Newswire Association Inc. All Rights
Reserved. A United Business Media company.







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              Two-Decade Media Fascination With UFOs Dwindling?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 13:18:04 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:09:01 -0400
Subject: Two-Decade Media Fascination With UFOs Dwindling?


Source: The American Prospect, May 24, 2002,

http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2002/05/nisbet-m-05-24.html

Stig

***

Back From Outer Space:

With the end of The X-Files, the 1990s infatuation with UFOs may
be dwindling. Will psychics take their place?

**

By Matthew Nisbet

Web Exclusive: 5.24.02

*

Last Sunday's series finale of FOX's The X-Files appears to mark
the end of a two-decade media infatuation with all things
extraterrestrial, from abductions and UFO crashes to government
cover-ups. There's no doubt that this obsession helped promote a
mass following for The X-Files series, and widespread public
interest in UFO claims. According to a recent survey [link] by the
National Science Board, some 43 percent of respondents indicated
that they watched The X- Files at least occasionally. In the same
survey, roughly 30 percent of respondents professed a belief that
alien spacecraft from another planet had visited Earth.

How did a sizable minority of Americans fall under the spell of
extraterrestrials? The answer lies in the giant storytelling mill
of the mass media, a belief factory that discovered alien tales to
be a veritable gold mine. Modern UFO fixation originated during
the 1960s in the form of whispered rumors among a small community
of convention-goers, pamphleteers, and conspiracy theorists. But
in order for aliens to grow into a uniquely American national
pastime and obsession, these claims bubbling on the fringes of
society first had to be popularized by film and television.

Cultural historians point to Steven Spielberg's 1977 classic Close
Encounters of the Third Kind as a major factor in the
mainstreaming of UFO beliefs. In a masterful film with state-of-
the-art effects, Spielberg -- himself a UFO enthusiast -- gathered
together the collected artifacts of UFO lore: extraordinary
accounts of alien contactees; speculative reports of secret
government facilities in remote areas of the American West; and
the eccentric personalities of crankish UFO-ologists. In
isolation, the impact of Close Encounters on public belief is
tough to gauge. However, the film sparked other media portrayals
of UFOs such as E.T. and Starman, culminating in the past decade's
cultural crescendo.

A key shift made this phenomenon possible. In the late 1980s and
early 1990s, with the release of books by science- fiction writer
Whitley Strieber and Harvard professor John Mack, the alien mythos
moved from the realm of science fiction to that of alleged fact.
Strieber's book Communion detailed his supposed personal
experience with alien abduction and became one of the best selling
"nonfiction" books of the decade. Mack's account of his "recovered
memory" hypnotism sessions with self-described alien abductees
also appeared on the best-seller list. Suddenly, the fringe claims
of a subculture movement were given credibility by best-selling
nonfiction books. And then they popped up in the news.

Alien and UFO stories fit the "soft," sensationalistic format of
1990s journalism perfectly. As a result, they became popular
topics for the new magazine shows such as NBC Dateline and ABC
Primetime Live, tabloid programs such as A Current Affair and
Inside Edition, and docu-drama series such as Unsolved Mysteries.
Even the respected PBS science program NOVA devoted an hour
documentary to alien abduction claims. The typical reporting
format in these programs put the extraordinary claims of a UFO
abductee or UFO-ologist on equal footing with the skeptical
evaluations of a credentialed scientist.

UFO lore was further promoted through the speculative elaboration
of mundane occurrences, including a series of contrived hoaxes.
Such urban legends took as a starting point the crash of a "flying
disc" near Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. In original news
accounts, a rancher described the crash material as foiled paper,
sticks, string, and tape (now identified as part of government spy
balloon). Over time, though, the story was embellished through
such hoaxes as the "MJ-12" documents (forged papers supposedly
proving presidential involvement in the cover-up of a UFO crash)
and the infamous 1995 "alien autopsy" television special
(broadcast on the Fox television network and featuring alleged
government footage of a humanoid figure). On the 50th anniversary
of the Roswell crash in 1997, a Gallup Organization poll found
that 31 percent of Americans believed an actual alien craft had
crashed in Roswell. In a previous poll, 71 percent of Americans
indicated a belief in some kind of U.S. government cover-up of
UFOs.

When The X-Files arrived in 1993, creator Chris Carter blended
reality with the paranormal. Capitalizing on UFO- lore and a
decades-long decline in public trust of the government, the show
quickly captured a large fan base, peaking in 1997 with an
estimated audience of 20 million viewers per episode. The X-Files
spawned several copycat programs, including NBC's Dark Skies and
the syndicated Psi- Factor, and inspired several successful motion
pictures including Independence Day, a $300 million blockbuster
that prominently featured the Roswell mythology and the threat of
alien abduction. Satires even emerged: Third Rock from the Sun, a
fish-out-of-water farce involving a family of aliens who adopt
suburban America as home; and Men in Black, an alien play on the
typical interracial police tandem first made popular by the
Beverly Hills Cop series.

How did all of this filter into what Americans think about aliens?
Scientists are typically quick to dismiss paranormal beliefs, such
as alien claims, as the failings of an irrational and
scientifically illiterate public. If most of America were only
more like scientists -- rational and knowledgeable -- the light of
reason might burn away these "silly" beliefs. Yet any belief
system, the traditional religions included, is the product of
various cultural forces. People are social animals who look to
others for cues about what to think and feel pressure to conform
their beliefs to perceived majority opinion.

Decades of research on the mass media's effects on society reveal
that the media often promote the diffusion of beliefs. In our
complex world, we rely on the mass media for news and information
about events outside our normal everyday experience, using them as
an important source of cues about what other people in society
think. The issues that the media pays closest attention to are
often the issues that we pay closest attention to. How the media
characterizes an issue also influences how we think about it. And
for those of us that spend large proportions of our everyday lives
enjoying the fruits of entertainment media, we often come to
perceive reality as it is portrayed in the fictionalized
narratives of television and film.

On testing the media's effects on belief in UFOs, the evidence is
still preliminary, but existing data point to a positive link
between increased media portrayals and enhanced public belief. For
example, polling data from both the Gallup Organization and
Yankelovich Partners indicate that UFO beliefs have increased over
the past two decades in correlation with the rise in media
portrayals. Moreover, Purdue University communication professor
Glenn Sparks has found a link between television viewing and
belief in UFO claims.

In an initial study, Sparks conducted a content analysis of three
weeks of network programming and discovered that more than 50
percent of television shows mentioned paranormal themes, including
UFOs and aliens, at least once. Later, Sparks edited an episode of
CBS's 48 Hours so that one group of subjects would watch a one-
sided report of a UFO encounter while a second group would watch a
more balanced presentation. As expected, subjects viewing the pro-
UFO version reported higher beliefs in UFOs while their
counterparts reported a decrease. In a follow-up study, Sparks
found a strong correlation between heavy television viewing and
UFO belief.

Regardless of the quality of evidence linking media portrayals of
UFOs with public belief, it appears the entertainment media's
promotion of such claims has reached a downward trend. Yet if UFOs
were the paranormal belief du jour of the 1990s, psychics and
spirit mediums, including the likes of best-selling author James
Van Praagh and Sci-Fi Channel performer John Edward, are the new
paranormal grist for the mass media's storytelling mill.

Edward appears to be the psychic superstar of the moment, with his
program Crossing Over with John Edward appearing five days a week
on the Sci-Fi Channel and in syndication nationally. The typical
format for the half-hour program features the fast-talking Edward
in a darkened amphitheater surrounded by risers packed with
audience members. Edward walks around the enclosure, focusing his
attention on different sections of the audience at a time and
throwing out fast successions of general and random statements
like "I'm getting something about a hat, or a coat, or boots, and
a name like Sal, Sarah, or Sally over here." Then he hones in on
individuals who respond to his guesswork by nodding their heads
hysterically, breaking out in tears, or raising their hands in
excitement.

Last year in a Time magazine article, science writer Leon Jaroff
explained what every good magician or mentalist already knew:
Edward's "psychic" success is a likely result of two very
earthly techniques. First, there is the old fortune- teller's
technique of "cold reading." This involves a succession of quick
generalizations by Edward meant to elicit a response from
individual audience members, followed by a series of educated
guesses based on demographics. Second, there is what Jaroff
referred to as a "hot reading," a variation on cold reading in
which the medium takes advantage of information surreptitiously
gathered in advance.

Despite these very mundane mind tricks, Crossing Over has been
enormously successful. The program follows in the tradition of
the daytime television talk-show format that includes Oprah,
Leeza, Sally, and Montel, all of which have packaged and sold
New Age self-help. Crossing Over also mimics the more recent
success of unscripted television programs such as MTV's The Real
World and CBS's Survivor. For the producers of Crossing Over,
the situation is ideal: Edward is the only actor on the payroll,
the producers don't have to worry about employing writers, and
they don't have to hassle with booking guests.

Edward's psychic shtick is nothing new. He is the latest in a
century-and-a-half lineage of full-time flamboyants that have
laid claim to spirit communication, from the nineteenth-century
rappings of the Fox sisters to present- day fellow spirit
mediums Rosemary Altea, Sylvia Browne, and Van Praagh. Fueled by
their best-selling books -- which typically detail how they
discovered their "gifts," describe their attempt to help those
who have "crossed over," and dish out spiritual New Age self
help -- Edward, Van Praagh, and their cohort of psychic
performers have achieved media celebrity.

Big names in Hollywood have dispensed countless endorsements of
the psychics' vast powers. Television has followed, giving away
full hour talk segments on CNN's Larry King Live, promotional
features on the network news magazines, and recently running a
CBS miniseries based on the "true events" of Van Praagh's life.
So although it appears that in the new millennium the mass media
may have put to rest their alien infatuation, this televised
conversation with psychics augurs ill for the next decade.

After all, at least The X-Files -- at its best -- told a gripping
story.

Matthew Nisbet

**

Copyright =A9 2002 by The American Prospect, Inc. Preferred
Citation: Matthew Nisbet, "Back From Outer Space: With the end
of The X-Files, the 1990s infatuation with UFOs may be
dwindling. Will psychics take their place?," The American
Prospect Online, May 24, 2002. This article may not be resold,
reprinted, or redistributed for compensation of any kind without
prior written permission from the author. Direct questions about
permissions to  permissions@prospect.org.







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 25

                     Condon & Cold War Loyalty Politics

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 15:38:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:16:17 -0400
Subject: Condon & Cold War Loyalty Politics


In UFO circles Condon is known as head of the Condon Committee,
an official, 'scientific' UFO research project which was
organized at the University of Colorado in 1966 and funded by
more than half a million dollars of USAF money. In 1969 the
committee released its findings, one of which was that UFOs
posed no threat to the security of the United States, and gave
USAF the long awaited excuse to close down its official UFO
research unit, Project Blue Book, at the end of the year.

The article below throws light on an interesting, though largely
unknown aspect of Condon's career. Jessica Wang, the author, is
an associate professor of history at the University of
California, Los Angeles. A broader perspective on science and
the cold war can be found in Wang's book American Science in an
Age of Anxiety, published in 1999 by the University of North
Carolina Press.

Source: Physics Today, December, 2001,

http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-54/iss-12/p35.html

Stig

***

EDWARD CONDON AND THE COLD WAR POLITICS OF LOYALTY

Early in the cold war, a noted scientist was relentlessly
hounded by red-baiting congressmen. The lessons of the case
remain no less relevant today.

**

Jessica Wang

**

On 1 March 1948, the House Committee on Un-American Activities
(HUAC) fired the opening shot in what was then the most public
cold war political attack on a scientist. On that day, HUAC
chairman J. Parnell Thomas (R-N.J.), recovering from
gastrointestinal hemorrhages, but still suffering from a chronic
case of political theater, issued a report from his sickbed that
labeled Edward Uhler Condon, renowned physicist and director of
the National Bureau of Standards (NBS), "one of the weakest
links in our atomic security." Thomas's allegations immediately
made headlines across the nation. For physicists, the news
confirmed that the binding of the cold war to the nuclear age
had extended the anticommunist search for the disloyal and
subversive into their community.

American physicists' rise to political prominence during and
after World War II developed in tandem with the nation's
ascendance to superpower status. The emergence of the cold war
and the ever- increasing demands of national security assured
physicists of continued visibility and influence. But those same
conditions also brought severe restrictions on physicists'
freedom of action. As domestic anticommunism reemerged after
World War II, protection of classified scientific information
became a national priority, and scientists' specialized
knowledge a carefully guarded commodity. Secrecy and security
requirements, originally temporary wartime measures, became
permanent features of physicists' lives. Scientists who
advocated arms control, international cooperation in science,
greater US-Soviet accommodation, civil rights, labor unionism,
and other causes outside the circumscribed boundaries of cold
war politics soon found their political commitments closely
scrutinized for evidence of subversive intent.

Politically active scientists ran a variety of risks during the
postwar red scare. Those scientists working on classified
projects could be denied security clearance and the ability to
pursue their research. Under the federal loyalty program, all
government employees-- scientists included--had to obtain
loyalty clearance or lose their jobs. Congressional committees
such as HUAC or, later, Joseph McCarthy's Senate Internal
Security Subcommittee, as well as state- level investigative
committees, pursued the political advantages of probing
individual scientists for evidence of disloyalty and red-
baiting those they found wanting. The hunt for atom spies and
other enemies within, both real and imagined, continued to
spread during the early 1950s. Many American universities joined
the anticommunist purge by adopting their own loyalty standards,
and firing and blacklisting scientists and other academics who
failed to cooperate with congressional and state-level
antisubversion efforts. By then, scientists also faced increased
prospects of being denied grants for nonsecret research or
travel rights by the State Department if they insisted on openly
challenging cold war orthodoxy.

Condon's unabashed liberalism, energetic advocacy of arms
control and internationalism in science, and high-level
government profile placed him on a collision course with HUAC
during the formative years of the red scare. For Condon,
confrontation with HUAC meant years of public scrutiny and
political harassment. For science as a whole, his ordeal
exemplified the larger struggles between science and politics
that became a part of physicists' lives during the cold war era.


A LIFE IN SCIENCE AND POLITICS


Physicists often remark on the obscurity of their discipline
before the 1940s. As Richard Feynman once quipped, "In those
days, people hardly knew what a physicist was." But by the
1920s, as the industrial employment of physicists expanded,
physics had already become more than an arcane intellectual
specialty. At that time, the best young physicists still went to
Europe to round out their education, but by the 1930s, the
Rockefeller Foundation's decade-long investment in the National
Research Council (NRC) postdoctoral fellowships had paid off,
and American physics could realistically claim parity with that
of Europe. With the rise of fascism and the migration of many of
Europe's best physicists to the US, the quality of American
physics rose even higher. Then World War II thrust massive
amounts of federal resources into physicists' hands. Wartime
military advancements, including radar and the atomic bomb,
dramatically demonstrated the ability of science to uphold US
power and, for physicists, ushered in a new age of generous
government contracts, high-level advisory positions, and public
prominence.

Condon's life and career epitomized this profound
transformation. Condon was born on 2 March 1902 in Alamogordo,
New Mexico--an irony not lost on him in his later years. He
delighted in telling the story of a suspicious senator who
wanted to know how he had come to be born so close to the
Trinity test site. Condon grew up in the San Francisco area,
where he flirted briefly with a career in journalism before
going to college and studying physics at the University of
California at Berkeley. After earning his PhD in 1926, he went
to G=F6ttingen and Munich on an NRC fellowship for postdoctoral
training. He returned to the US to take up a lectureship at
Columbia University before becoming an assistant professor at
Princeton University in 1928. After spending the next year at
the University of Minnesota, he returned to Princeton, where he
stayed until 1937.

Condon established his reputation in theoretical physics with
two discoveries near the beginning of his career. His doctoral
dissertation elaborated on James Franck's theory of molecular
transitions. The resulting Franck-Condon principle, which holds
that electronic transitions occur so rapidly that one can
assume, as an approximation, stability in the position and
momentum of nuclei, has numerous applications in chemistry and
physics. Then in 1928, Condon and Ronald Gurney proposed a
quantum tunneling interpretation of alpha particle emission.
George Gamow developed the same idea independently, and the
discovery constituted a significant theoretical breakthrough in
understanding radioactive decay.

Popular mythology among physicists holds that they do their best
work before the age of 30. But in 1936, Condon demonstrated that
he still possessed formidable scientific skills. That year,
Condon, Gregory Breit, and Richard Present developed an
important interpretation of proton-proton scattering. In a
career that ultimately spanned five decades, Condon published
more than 90 papers in such diverse fields as atomic physics,
solid-state physics, and the physics of microwaves and radio
waves. He also cowrote several well-known textbooks, including
the first English-language textbook on quantum mechanics (with
Philip Morse in 1929), and the classic The Theory of Atomic
Spectra (with G. H. Shortley in 1936).

Daunted by the breakneck pace of discoveries in theoretical
physics, Condon briefly considered a career in public relations
at Bell Laboratories when he returned from Munich in 1927.
Perhaps the possibility of industrial science never remained far
from his mind, for in 1937, he left Princeton to become
associate director of research at Westinghouse Electric Co.
There he established a research program in nuclear physics,
solid-state physics, and mass spectroscopy. In 1940, he took
charge of Westinghouse's fledgling program in microwave radar,
which soon led to war research.

In the fall of 1940, Condon began to work full-time on military
projects. As a consultant to the National Defense Research
Committee, he helped to organize the radiation laboratory at
MIT, which pursued the development of radar. In 1943, he joined
the Manhattan Project as J. Robert Oppenheimer's assistant
director, but clashed with General Leslie R. Groves, the
project's military leader, over security policy and the state of
living conditions at Los Alamos. After only six weeks, Condon
resigned. He did, however, continue to contribute to the project
as a part-time consultant on uranium separation at Berkeley.
When the war ended, he became director of the NBS and committed
himself to a career in physics and government.

Condon's life reflected not only the general institutional
trends of physics in the first half of the 20th century, but
also the political concerns of the Manhattan Project generation.
His political sympathies ran to the left of New Deal liberalism
with a strong civil libertarian bent, but his political
involvement was limited during the 1930s. He became politically
active after the war, when he devoted himself to speaking out
about atomic energy, security and secrecy requirements, and
international cooperation in science. He became a leading figure
in the atomic scientists' movement, composed of former Manhattan
Project scientists who sought to teach the public about the
dangers of the nuclear age, influence domestic atomic energy
legislation, and push for international control of atomic
energy. Condon aided the atomic scientists' opposition to the
May-Johnson bill, which contained strict secrecy regulations and
placed atomic energy under military control, and he and Leo
Szilard helped to spearhead the scientists' case that atomic
energy should be under civilian, not military, authority.

Through these activities, Condon met Secretary of Commerce and
former Vice-President Henry A. Wallace, who pushed his
appointment as director of the NBS in the fall of 1945. Condon
also became a technical adviser to the Senate Special Committee
on Atomic Energy, and he helped to draft the McMahon act. Passed
in August 1946, the act mandated civilian control of atomic
energy under the auspices of the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC).

Condon described himself as a liberal. He believed in the
ability of humans to act generously and rationally, and he was
impatient with small-minded or self-serving opinion. His
politics centered on an internationalist ideal that envisioned
open communication in science as a way of furthering both
scientific progress and international harmony. Condon contended
that secrecy could not be relied on to preserve scientific and
technological advantages, since scientists in other countries
would inevitably reproduce US discoveries. Furthermore, efforts
to monopolize information created a sense of suspicion damaging
to international relations. Given the dangers of the nuclear age
and the unacceptable costs of nuclear conflict, the only
sensible course of action lay in open scientific cooperation
among nations to create goodwill and spread the benefits of
science worldwide. If an internationalist course were followed,
Condon predicted in 1946, "the outcome will be world friendship
and cooperation and not atomic war and the destruction of
civilization." As the cold war progressed, he increasingly
lamented the rise of anticommunist hysteria and its attendant
obsession with atomic secrets. In part, Condon's discouragement
reflected his personal experiences, for it was his
internationalism that led to his confrontations with HUAC in the
late 1940s.


THOMAS FINDS A TARGET


HUAC's decision to target Condon was not hasty or accidental.
Thomas had been one of the most bitter congressional opponents
of civilian control of atomic energy, and he had deployed the
specter of communism in an effort to derail the McMahon bill. In
June 1946, as the House began to debate the atomic energy
legislation, HUAC began to investigate the political activities
of the scientists' movement at Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
Shortly afterward, in Liberty magazine, Thomas fired a broadside
against the nation's scientists and their political
entanglements: "Our scientists, it seems, are well schooled in
their specialties but not in the history of Communist tactics
and designs. They have a weakness for attending meetings,
signing petitions, sponsoring committees, and joining
organizations labeled 'liberal' or 'progressive' but which are
actually often Communist fronts." He went on to cite the
opposition of individual scientists to secrecy requirements and
military control of atomic energy as evidence of their naivet=E9
and unreliability, insisting that many atomic scientists were
under communist influence.

Weeks later, as the McMahon bill approached a House vote, Thomas
carried his campaign against civilian control of atomic energy
to the House floor. There, he focused not only on the specific
provisions of the bill itself, but also on its advocates,
including Condon. He also hinted darkly at the reasons behind
the last-minute revocation of Condon's passport in 1945, just
before the scientist had planned to leave for the Soviet Union's
celebration of the 220th anniversary of the Russian Academy of
Sciences. Anxious Manhattan Project security officers had indeed
revoked the passport, but without prejudice to Condon's loyalty
or security status. Thomas, however, insinuated that the
incident demonstrated the unreliability of the McMahon bill's
supporters.

The passage of the McMahon act on 1 August failed to damp
Thomas's determination to exploit the threat of atomic
espionage. After the 1946 midterm elections gave the Republicans
a majority in the House, Thomas ascended to the chairmanship of
HUAC. In that position, he faced the problem of building the
power and prestige of what at that point was a relatively weak
and disreputable committee. Before the investigation and
prosecution of Alger Hiss, HUAC garnered little respect, even
within Congress. Most congressmen looked on the committee with
distaste if not contempt, and new House members avoided
assignment to HUAC.

It was not until after Richard M. Nixon (R-Calif.) demonstrated
through the Hiss case that one could build a successful
political career on red-baiting that freshman congressmen
clamored to sit on HUAC. But at the outset of the 80th Congress,
Thomas needed more immediate means of expanding his committee's
sway. As part of an eight- point program that included ferreting
out Hollywood leftists and communists within the labor movement,
Thomas quickly announced HUAC's intent to investigate "those
groups and movements which are trying to dissipate our atomic
bomb knowledge for the benefit of a foreign power."

Thomas had not forgotten Condon's role in the McMahon bill. As
he set HUAC on its new agenda, he launched a series of media
trial balloons concerning Condon. Late in March 1947, the
Washington Times-Herald published two articles, based on
information from Thomas, that probed Condon's ties to
organizations HUAC considered communist fronts. In the June 1947
issue of American Magazine, Thomas attacked Condon more openly
for his membership in the American-Soviet Science Society. ASSS
had been founded during the days of the US-Soviet alliance in
World War II to promote and facilitate the exchange of openly
available scientific information. There was nothing subversive
about the organization, but Thomas portrayed it as a conduit for
Soviet-sponsored atomic espionage. Then in July, the Times-
Herald announced HUAC's plans to subpoena Condon and grill him
about what the article insinuated were numerous questionable
contacts.

By then, Condon felt something had to be done. He appealed to
Congressman Chet Holifield (D-Calif.), a friend of the atomic
scientists during the McMahon bill debate and a member of the
Joint Committee on Atomic Energy, to launch a counterattack. On
22 July, Holifield took to the House floor, where he defended
the NBS director with a point- by-point analysis that took apart
the Times-Herald's case against Condon. He concluded by
emphasizing Condon's scientific stature and challenging "rumor-
mongering character assassins" to "put up or shut up."
Holifield's speech seemed to put the matter to rest, butmonths
later, Condon discovered that the events of 1947 had only been a
prelude of what was to come.


CAUSE C=C9L=C8BRE


The case broke open on 1 March 1948, when HUAC issued its report
with the infamous charge that Condon was "one of the weakest
links in our atomic security." Space does not permit a detailed
description of the allegations against Condon here, but most of
the committee's suspicions centered on either his liberal
political views or his associations with persons HUAC considered
overly left-wing and insufficiently loyal. The report tried to
portray Condon as untrustworthy and suspect because of the
pending status of his security clearance with the AEC, his
association with "an individual alleged, by a self- confessed
Soviet espionage agent, to have engaged in espionage
activities," his general associations with foreigners, and his
connection to ASSS. In conclusion, the report recommended either
that Condon be fired or that the Secretary of Commerce
specifically justify why Condon should be kept on the job
despite the evidence against him.

To the casual reader, the charges might have sounded serious,
but on closer examination, they carried little weight. For
example, Condon's security clearance was "pending" merely
because of a routine backlog at the AEC. At no point did HUAC
charge Condon with any specific impropriety or unlawful action.
Instead, the report could only dredge up vague "associations"--
with foreigners, with radicals, including an alleged spy, and
with scientifically based political causes--all normal
encounters for a liberal, politically active scientist and head
of a major federal bureau. As one commentator noted at the time,
HUAC's most serious allegations amounted to "saying that Condon
is alleged to have associated with a man who is alleged to beat
his wife." By citing supposedly dangerous "associations," HUAC
could cast Condon in a subversive light without having to accuse
him of any actual indiscretion or involvement in intrigue.

The report's remarks about the ASSS revealed the true source of
the committee's ire: Condon's internationalism. The report
claimed that Condon's membership in the ASSS revealed "the
dangerous extremes to which Dr. Condon has gone in an effort to
cooperate with Communist forces in the United States." In
specifying what those extremes were, HUAC pointed to Condon's
remarks in a 5 March 1946 address, in which the physicist had
emphasized the need for scientific cooperation between the US
and the Soviet Union. To most scientists, Condon's words were
reasonable, but to Thomas, scientific exchanges by themselves
were tantamount to espionage.

The allegations made front-page headlines around the country,
and Condon immediately responded to what promised to escalate
into a major confrontation with HUAC. He declared, "I have
nothing to report. If it is true that I am one of the weakest
links in atomic security that is very gratifying and the country
can feel absolutely safe for I am completely reliable, loyal,
conscientious and devoted to the interests of my country, as my
whole career and life clearly reveal." Off the record, he
described his predicament more colorfully: "How can a man answer
a charge like that? If you say I've got a wart on my nose, I can
deny it. But if you just say I'm one of the ugliest men in town,
all I can do is argue that I'm really quite pretty."

The Commerce Department quickly backed Condon by announcing that
its loyalty board had cleared the NBS director on 24 February. A
wide range of prominent people and organizations also rallied
behind Condon. Over the next several months, the American Civil
Liberties Union, Wallace, Congresswoman Helen Gahagan Douglas
(D-Calif.), and Holifield voiced their support. Scientists and
scientists' groups also spoke out in his defense. Albert
Einstein and Harold Urey, speaking on behalf of the Emergency
Committee of Atomic Scientists, pronounced HUAC's accusations "a
disservice to the interests of the United States." Robert
Marshak, chairman of the Federation of American Scientists
(FAS), lambasted HUAC for laying a "deliberate smear" against
Condon "contrary to the American instinct for fair play and to
the democratic idea expressed in the Bill of Rights." The FAS
also urged its members to write to the Joint Committee on Atomic
Energy, HUAC, and the Commerce Department to express their
support for Condon. President Harry S Truman received scores of
telegrams and letters from individual scientists, physics
departments, and scientific societies exuding confidence in the
embattled scientist. The American Physical Society issued a
statement backing Condon on 5 March. The American Association
for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) followed suit in late
April, and the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), in mid-May.
Meanwhile, the Emergency Committee of Atomic Scientists held a
testimonial dinner on 12 April to demonstrate scientists' faith
in Condon. Some 150 scientists, including nine Nobel Prize
winners and 70 NAS members, endorsed the dinner.


THE CONDON CASE AND PARTISAN POLITICS


Thomas's opposition to the McMahon bill, disdain for scientific
internationalism, and political interest in atomic espionage
explain the general motivations behind HUAC's attack on Condon,
but not its immediate political concerns. Condon's supporters
feared a renewed assault on the McMahon bill, but a
congressional sense of turf prevented HUAC from taking further
steps to dismantle civilian control of atomic energy. As Richard
Meier of FAS observed on 24 March, "J. Parnell Thomas is pretty
much hindered in the atomic energy field because he is intruding
on the jurisdiction of another committee, and one that guards
its domain quite jealously." HUAC simply lacked the clout to
take on the powerful and prestigious Joint Committee on Atomic
Energy. But even if the McMahon act were sacrosanct, the Condon
case still offered HUAC attractive possibilities.

First, the case provided a rationale for HUAC's record $200 000
appropriations request for 1949--double the previous year's
budget. As one congressman noted, "A sure sign of preparations
for making a new request for funds is the release of sensational
charges against some public figure." During the ensuing debate
in the House, a number of congressmen spoke in defense of Condon
and sharply criticized HUAC. Despite such criticisms, however,
the growing US commitment to the cold war redounded to HUAC's
favor. An overwhelming majority in the House voted to approve
the committee's expanded budget.

In the election year of 1948, Republicans also hoped to
capitalize on the weakness of a president who seemingly lacked
his predecessor's capacity to capture Americans' devotion. The
furor surrounding Condon might have died down relatively
quickly, but the political stakes increased significantly when a
prolonged controversy erupted over a 1947 letter from Secretary
of Commerce Averell Harriman to FBI director J. Edgar Hoover.
Prompted by either the implementation of the federal loyalty
program in March 1947 or Thomas's early trial balloons in the
Times-Herald, Harriman wrote to Hoover on 6 May 1947 to request
"all available information in the files of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation" regarding Condon. Hoover responded on 15 May with
a confidential letter.

As was typical of such correspondence, Hoover provided a
detailed synopsis of uncorroborated accounts, supplied by
confidential informants, of those activities and associations of
Condon's that the FBI considered potentially suspect. HUAC
obtained excerpts from the letter, and in its report on Condon
quoted the sections that seemed the most damning. In particular,
the committee focused on the following statement: "The files of
the Bureau reflect that Dr. Edward U. Condon has been in contact
as late as 1947 with an individual alleged, by a self-confessed
Soviet espionage agent, to have engaged in espionage activities
with the Russians in Washington, DC from 1941 to 1944." But HUAC
omitted the sentence that immediately followed: "There is no
evidence to show that contacts between this individual and Dr.
Condon were related to this individual's espionage activities."
The critical omission created an impression of guilt rather than
exoneration, but the Commerce Department apparently leaked the
excised passage to the media and thereby deflated the most
spectacular of HUAC's allegations.

Furious, the committee demanded that Truman release the full
text of the Hoover- Harriman letter. The president, in an effort
to maintain control over anticommunism as a political issue,
responded on 14 March with an executive order forbidding the
release of departmental loyalty files to Congress on the grounds
it would violate the civil rights of federal employees and
compromise the FBI's investigative capabilities. Ten days later,
Harriman evoked executive privilege and refused to hand over his
department's records on Condon. On 22 April, the House, outraged
by Truman's willingness to defy the legislative branch, passed
House Resolution 522, which ordered Truman to release the
Commerce Department's loyalty file on Condon. Truman refused,
and he ordered all copies of the Hoover-Harriman letter
transferred to the Oval Office.

The resolution never came to a vote in the Senate, so the
president had no legal obligation to divulge Condon's loyalty
file. But the uproar threatened serious political fallout.
Truman's actions became both a major source of criticism of the
president and a defense for HUAC. Some of Condon's defenders had
attacked HUAC on the grounds of basic fairness because of the
committee's continued failure to grant Condon a hearing in which
he could respond to the charges against him. With HR 522 as
political cover, HUAC attempted to shift the blame to the Truman
administration by asking what it had to hide and contending that
if the president would only hand over HUAC's main source of
evidence against Condon, the committee would be happy to give
Condon an open hearing. As HUAC member Richard Vail (R-Ill.) put
it, "What is there in the letter the President, the Attorney
General, and Secretary Harriman desire to keep from the
Congress?" As the House headed toward its vote on HR 522, Thomas
indicated that the main obstacle to giving Condon a hearing lay
in Truman's obstinate refusal to hand over the Hoover-Harriman
letter.

On 1 May, Republican National Committee chairman Carroll Reece,
sensing the election-year atmosphere, listed impeachment as one
of several steps that Congress could take to force the issue.
Condon, sensing the need for damage control, wrote to
Undersecretary of Commerce William Foster on 5 May to ask that
Truman release the letter. But Truman continued to hold firm,
and on 1 June he drafted a speech to Congress detailing his
reasons for refusing to comply with HR 522. By this time,
however, the immediate controversy surrounding Condon had abated
sufficiently, and the president's advisers suggested Truman need
not deliver the speech. The president dropped the matter for the
moment. Meanwhile, the AEC granted Condon a security clearance,
noting, "After examining the extensive files in this case, the
commission has no question whatever concerning Dr. Condon's
loyalty to the United States."

Then, in the fall, Truman left no doubts about his support for
his NBS director. At the centennial meeting of the AAAS on 13
September, four days before beginning his coast- to-coast
whistle-stop tour for the presidential campaign, Truman greeted
Condon on stage and blasted smears against scientists as
"unfounded rumors, gossip and villification" that created an
atmosphere that "is un-American, the most un-American thing we
have to contend with today."

By the end of 1948, Condon appeared to have emerged from his
confrontation with HUAC unscathed and victorious. Not only had
he received loyalty clearance from the Commerce Department and
security clearance from the AEC, but the president himself had
publicly defended him. Furthermore, HUAC fared poorly at the
polls, and two of its members lost their seats. Thomas won his
congressional race but was indicted for payroll padding shortly
thereafter. To Condon's delight, Thomas pleaded no contest,
resigned from Congress in disgrace, and spent nine months in
federal prison. Years later, Condon derived a certain gleeful
satisfaction in always referring to the former HUAC chairman as
"ex-convict Thomas."

But Thomas's removal from the political scene failed to end
Condon's ordeal. Throughout the early 1950s, Condon had to
defend himself repeatedly from HUAC's accusations and submit to
cumbersome reassessment by the federal government's loyalty and
security apparatus. Vail revived HUAC's charges in April 1951.
At the same time, in accordance with revisions in the federal
government's loyalty program, Condon also faced a reevaluation
of his loyalty clearance by the Commerce Department. Frustrated
by the prospect of another wrenching political battle and
attracted by a high-paying position at Corning Glass Works,
Condon left the NBS in August.

Vail, however, continued to apply pressure. After Condon's
ascension to the AAAS presidency in January 1952, Vail again
attacked Condon's politics as "flagrantly pro- Soviet" and
promised the forthcoming release of "additional and shocking
material" that would "remove the last vestige of doubt
concerning him and . . . thoroughly demoralize and confound his
defenders." Then in late August, not long before the midterm
congressional election, HUAC finally subpoenaed Condon for a
hearing. Vail made his election-year motives explicit in his
campaign literature, which touted HUAC's investigation of Condon
as one of the primary accomplishments of his congressional
career.

The 5 September hearing aired none of the shocking revelations
that Vail had promised earlier. In six hours of testimony, most
of which centered on old allegations rehashed from the
committee's 1948 report, Condon answered all questions candidly
and vehemently denied ever having violated security regulations.
No evidence of wrongdoing on Condon's part emerged.
Nevertheless, his troubles continued. In 1954, Condon applied
for security clearance for a classified project that Corning was
conducting for the US Navy. He received clearance in June, but
in October, after the Washington Post broke the story of
Condon's successful application for access to classified
information, the Secretary of the Navy suddenly revoked Condon's
security clearance. Vice President Nixon, then campaigning in
Montana, publicly took credit for the navy secretary's actions.

Condon initially gave every indication of being prepared to
fight his case once more. After noting that he had been cleared
four times by four different boards, he declared, "I will be
pleased to be cleared a fifth time, confident that one more
honest, objective review of my record can only lead to this
result." But in December, tired of waging a seemingly endless
battle, he gave up the fight, announcing, "I now am unwilling to
continue a potentially indefinite series of reviews and re-
reviews." Instead, Condon left Corning for university life.

His long struggle with cold war anticommunism followed him into
academia, where the unofficial but powerful blacklist often
prevented the hiring of people whose loyalty had been
questioned. In January 1955, New York University invited Condon
to chair its physics department, but rescinded the offer amid
rumors that NYU would lose federal funding if it hired him. He
spent the 1955 spring semester as a visiting professor at the
University of Pennsylvania, but Thomas Gates, the new navy
secretary as well as a university trustee, kept Condon from
obtaining a permanent position. Instead, he became chairman of
the physics department at Washington University in 1956.
Chancellor Arthur Compton, the famed physicist, had a record of
hiring faculty who had faced anticommunist political
persecution, and after Condon joined the Washington University
faculty, his troubles finally came to an end. Several years
later, he went to the University of Colorado, where he completed
his scientific career.

Condon's battle with HUAC left his career and reputation intact,
but his experience with cold war anticommunism was nonetheless a
sobering one. He did not suffer material consequences, such as
long-term loss of employment, but the spiritual costs were high.
His former student and friend Frederick Seitz later observed,
"The ordeal took a heavy toll on him, both physically and
emotionally. He was never again quite the same cheerful,
carefree man I had known in earlier years."

For the American scientific community, the Condon case
symbolized the difficulties scientists faced as they tried to
straddle science and politics after World War II. Even after the
waning of McCarthyism, scientists periodically received
disturbing reminders of the political pressures that came with
their dependence on federal support. In 1969, for example,
shocked scientists learned that the Department of Health,
Education, and Welfare regularly denied scientists appointments
to advisory panels or positions in the Public Health Service
because of their participation in civil rights demonstrations or
antiwar protests. More recently, congressional charges of
Chinese-sponsored espionage at Los Alamos, the Justice
Department's botched handling of the Wen Ho Lee case, and the
sour feeling both have left in particular among Asian and Asian
American scientists in the US indicate the continued threat that
the hunt for spies and scapegoats poses for American scientists.
The lessons of the Condon case remain no less relevant today
than they were over half a century ago, during those grim, dark
days early in the cold war.

*

Jessica Wang is an associate professor of history at the
University of California, Los Angeles.

This article is based on Wang's article "Science, Security, and
the Cold War: The Case of E. U. Condon," which appeared on page
238 of the June 1992 issue (volume 83) of Isis. A broader
perspective on science and the cold war can be found in Wang's
book American Science in an Age of Anxiety, published in 1999 by
the University of North Carolina Press.

**

=A9 2001 American Institute of Physics







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               Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction -

From: Josh  Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 15:51:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:21:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction -


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:40:05 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction

 >>From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:08:58 EDT
 >>Subject: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction

 >>SOURCE: EFE News Agency
 >>DATE: May 17, 2002

 >>Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction in Southern Chile

<snip>

 >1)  USA:       7748 events.
 >2)  France:    2298 (does not include overseas Depts)
 >3)  Britain:   1175 (includes Northern Ireland.)
 >4)  Canada:     680
 >5)  Australia:  623
 >6)  Brazil:     547
 >7)  Italy       532 (Many well investigated.)
 >8)  Spain:      360
 >9)  Argentina:  287
 >10) China:      229 (Mainland only)
 >11) Russia:     180 (217 including CIS nations)
 >12) New Zealand 154  .. and so on.


 >Peru in second place? No mention of France or the UK?   I have a
 >total of 59 events for Peru, way down the list; some quite
 >interesting BTW.

 >Once again, here are the EFE News Agency rankings - they
 >provided no case counts:

 >1) USA
 >2) Peru
 >3) Brazil
 >4) Russia
 >5) Chile.

 >Chile does have 94 listings here, a considerable number, and not
 >a chupacabra among them.

 >One might well argue that EFE has access to Latin America data
 >than I do. I certainly hope so.

<snip>


Hi Larry,

Thanks for posting your sightings statistics. For many years I
have seen lots of reports from South America but I have no idea
as to the quality of reporting involved. However, it sounds
fantastic.

Who knows? From Ubatuba to Villas Boas, Chupacabras, persistent
sighting reports, etc. It has sounded more exciting than most
sightings in the US. Cultural factors may have a lot of bearing
on this.

However, Sixto Paz may really be on top of things by discovering
the Xendra. That may be what Elvis Presley went through when he
left Graceland for good. Do you remember the stories that his
coffin did not contain his body? Here is a clue. He wrote a song
that we interpreted as "Return to Sender". Give it a good listen
and you will hear him actually sing "Return to Xendra, address
unknown". With his metaphysical studies along with his drug
abuse, he obviously opened that gate and dematerialized when he
passed through.

Elvis Lives! That is accurate in a multidimensional perspective.
He can not return in body but his spirit eternally permeates all
mankind.

You can only really understand this if you have been ritually
prepared. For example, if you see the sheet lyrics of that song
you will not see the true meaning unless Sixto Paz has properly
prepared you to do that. Only after that will you begin to see
the Xendra and be able to dematerialize. Of course 35 years ago
I was able to do that on LSD but I could only temporarily pass
tthrough. I always returned to the same planet in this dimension
and with a bunch of brain cells dangling in the unspeakable
dimension.

If I were an unscrupulous a**hole aside from a general pain in
the ass, I would get Stephen Greer's address list of all his
followers, the lists from New Age organizations, and get Sixto
Paz up into the US.

I'd fleece those New Age suckers for all they could give before
dosing them with LSD and having them believe they passed through
the Xendra for a few hours. Being generous, I would give Paz a
20% cut, of course that would be after deducting his expenses.

But I have deep scruples. I will stick with working on my
storyboard for MTV's celebrity death match. It includes epic
battles of Chupacabra vs. Mothman, grey vs. Nordic, human vs.
humanoid (Michael Jackson), Larry Hatch vs. the reptilian, etc.


Ugh, back to reality,

Josh









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               Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction -

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:44:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 12:04:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction -


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:40:05 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction

 >>From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:08:58 EDT
 >>Subject: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction

Dear Harry Hatch,

 >One might well argue that EFE has access to Latin America data
 >than I do. I certainly hope so.

It could help many  Latin American ufologist, if you post your
list of Latin American or Spanish speaking countries.

I, myself, do not trust any news agencies polls or statistic.
I'll be happy to spread your work, with your permission, to the
Spanish speaking lists.


Regards,

Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo

Miami UFO Center
http://www.geocities.com/ufomiami.geo/index.html







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   May > May 26

                  Re: Alien Autopsy Film Review - Vetterick

From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 13:25:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:13:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Film Review - Vetterick


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 22:26:44 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Film Review

 >>From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com>
 >>To: UFO Update <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 14:13:32 -0500
 >>Subject: Alien Autopsy Film Review

 >>As you all know, we concluded our AA Film review project and
 >>have posted the CD's and Web site being available to the public
 >>now, to a variety of related internet discussion lists.

 >>This was picked up by a San Diego news service who called me for
 >>a phone interview that lasted about 30 minutes.

 ><snip>

 >Can't the mainstream press do better than this, if only
 >occasionally? Dave's AA CD project is the only truly unbiased
 >and sober look at the purported dissection I've seen, and this
 >writer chooses to dwell on the "genitalia issue" instead of
 >offering anything of substance.

 >A reader might very well get the impression that Dave
 >Vetterick is, at best,

 >a.) a profiteer without the originality to do anything
 >other than rake up an issue presumably "dead" since
 >1995

 >or, at worst,

 >b.) some sort of pervert who spends time poring over
 >close ups of alleged alien genitalia.

 >I'm glad to see Dave reacted to this with amusement.
 >Others might not be so well-mannered, and I can't say
 >I'd blame them.

 >--Mac

Thanks Mac. It took me a while to cool off before I responded to
the jerk. Genitalia in a vise definitely came to mind.

I'm certainly not a known figure in UFO circles like yourself
and many others on this list, so it wasn't that important
personally. It certainly isn't good for ufology in general
however.

I told the guy his use of T&A, poop and the rest made a mockery
of the subject. I suggested if he treated all paranormal
subjects like this, he was doing more harm than good, but
perhaps that was his intent. His reply was as follows:

"My intent isn't to make a mockery. We specialize in paranormal
news and we do eye-catching headlines."

In other words any means to an end. In my view the translation
of this using his words is, He's got "poop" for brains!

Dave







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   May > May 26

                       Another Mute In Argentine Field

From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 14:33:32 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:16:06 -0400
Subject: Another Mute In Argentine Field


SOURCE: Diario "La Arena" (La Pampa, Argentina)
DATE: 5-23-02

ANOTHER MUTILATED ANIMAL FOUND IN FIELD
***This is the third such case***

GENERAL ACHA (DNA)-- Another cow turned up dead in a very
strange way in a field of the General Acha region. As in
previous cases, the animal was bloodless and was missing some
organs. No traces were found in the place and the causes of
these deaths remain a source of mystery to investigators. During
the recent discovery, despite the fact that the animal had been
dead for days in the outdoors, it had not yet putrefied.

Mystery struck once more in a local field: the latest event
occured in the "El Huitr=FA" farm some 70 km. from this city near
provincial highways 115 and 18, where a dead cow was found with
characteristics similar to the first two. It was bloodless and
was missing an eye, jaw and tongue. The strange part of the case
is that authorities were unable to find an perpetrator for the
crime committed at rural lot 16, section 9, of the Utracan
department.

In a conversation with this newsroom, the main official of the
local town hall, Roque Ceferino Estepa, reported that the
cattleman claimed that between 18:00 hrs of the 14th and 17:00
hrs. of the 15th of May, he had found one of his Aberdeen Angus
cows--r approximately 3 years old and weighing 450 kilograms--
mutilated by persons unknown. Cattleman Dario Garcia alleged
that the cow had been found completely exsanguinated, without a
tongue and missing a left ear, jaw, an eye, its udders and vital
organs.

He further opined that in spite of the incisions made with sharp
hot objects, given that the animal's fat was still warm, there
were no traces of blood on the spot. Police elements under the
command of Officer Lucero established themselves in the field
together with veterinarian Juan Manuel Orterdag, who analyzed
the strange death.

Instructional and Correctional Court No. 1 of General Acha,
presided by Judge Manuel Alvarez, has intervened in the matter.

This is the third  animal to have been found mutilated in
similar circumstances, which places a shroud of mystery over the
police investigation. The same happened only a few days ago at a
ranch in the vicinity of Salliquelo, where police investigation
has still been unable to find an answer.

############################################
Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic
Ufology. Special Thanks to Gloria R. Coluchi.



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   May > May 26

                            Coffeeshop Encounter

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:21:22 -0400
Subject: Coffeeshop Encounter


List,

Here's a short narrative I wrote for some friends after meeting
an interesting character at a local coffeeshop.

--Mac Tonnies http://mactonnies.com


A few days ago I was hanging out in LatteLand reading "Looking
for Orthon," a sociological study and critical biography of the
late saucer contactee George Adamski. Among Adamski's many
claims was that various "space people" worked secretly among
Earth's scientific and industrial complex. I was musing on the
idea of human-looking "aliens among us" when I saw the back of a
blond-haired woman standing in front of me, facing the espresso
bar.

I watched her carefully pour the contents of one coffee cup into
another and back again as if working with chemicals. As if on
cue, the woman swiveled to look straight at me. She was probably
in her 50s (or 60s); her face had the taut quality associated
with cosmetic surgery, and she wore big black sunglasses that
made her look a bit like the cover illustration from
"Communion." She was hauling a large tourist-grade tote.

After asking one of the baristas to keep an eye on her tote, she
used the restroom and returned to sit down next to me at an
adjacent table. She was still wearing the sunglasses, and
smelled strongly of perfume. I kept reading, but the woman's
presence was oppressive; she was practically looking over my
shoulder (LatteLand is a small joint, and both of us were
probably lucky to get seats at all).

Then she started asking me questions. "Where is the Truman
Museum?" She had a European-sounding accent, but I couldn't
place it.

"That's in Independence," I said. "About a thirty minute drive."

"You mean it's not here? I thought it was here."

"Well, not in walking distance, but it's not that far away."

She proceeded to ask me about where exactly downtown Kansas City
was in relation to the Country Club Plaza, then abruptly changed
the subject: "Where is a hardware store?"

I thought she might be asking about Restoration Hardware, an
upscale home decorating store across the street (and she seemed
to agree with me for a moment), but she made it clear she needed
an ordinary hardware store. I didn't know. Then she asked for
a drugstore, and I was able to provide her with directions to
the Osco Drug on Main not far from my apartment. By this time
she had finally taken the dark glasses off.

She thanked me and, tote trailing behind her, left the coffee
shop.

I don't think this woman was one of Adamski's space people (or
any other sort of alien being). I think she was a
synchronicity: her demeanor and overt mystification were
straight out of some "B" movie about invading saucermen. As
such, she served as a living, breathing illustration from
"Looking for Orthon."

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)
http://mactonnies.com
Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies







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                     Re: Oberg On Hare's Story - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 18:52:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:24:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Oberg On Hare's Story - Shough


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:13:56 EDT
 >Subject: Oberg On Hare's Story - Young

 >Would you please post this comment by James Oberg?
 >Thanks.
 >Bob

 >-------

 >Eleanor [White] described her approach to my research, which is
 >to pretend it isn't there - but others might be interested in
 >the report I sent her:

<snip>

 >I cannot believe the first item, the only one of the four to
 >which she was a direct witness, because she described the
 >photograph as showing trees and their shadows, which allowed her
 >to determine the low altitude of the white circle she saw (and
 >which she described as "a metallic disk") from its shadow on the
 >ground.

 >From what I know of NASA space photography, I believe it was
 >impossible then or now for NASA to produce Earth surface images
 >with sufficient detail to show a tree and its shadow. A vigorous
 >search by several ufo buffs recently for such pictures in NASA's
 >archives (the photo was described as being prepared for public
 >sale) failed to locate any.

 >Veteran NASA earth photography specialist Paul Lowman confirmed
 >this for me: "Your term 'preposterous' is right on. The
 >original Landsats had a ground resolution of 79 meters; Landsats
 >4 and 5 did better than that, around 30 meters or so. The Skylab
 >S190B camera (18 " focal length) could resolve small boats in
 >marinas on the Chicago lake front, and I think a 10 meter
 >resolution would account for that. But no NASA satellite of that
 >era, or for that matter of any era up to now, could resolve pine
 >trees or their shadows."

A question to Mr. Oberg from someone with no axe to grind:

What height of tree are you assuming and what was the
elevation of the sun?

It seems to me that since pine trees can be several tens of
meters in height a moderate sun angle might give shadows at
least several tens of meters in length. Moreover, are you
considering a single tree, or a forest?

She says: "Both the trees and the UFO cast shadows in the same
directions giving me an understanding of the shape and size of
the object....." So "trees" plural.

A block plantation, for example, might have a very broad and
well-defined edge of shadow comparable to your order-of-ten
meter resolution in width and many times that resolution in
length. It seems to me the argument needs to address these
issues if it is to be convincing.

Regards

Martin Shough







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              Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 20:59:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:26:21 -0400
Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers -


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 02:52:40 -0400
 >Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

 >>From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 19:47:30 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:18:24 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

 >>>>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:03:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >>>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Subject: More On Wilbert B. Smith And Flying Saucers

<snip>

 >>Ignore me again if you choose,

 >Again? This is the first time I've ever read a post from you. I
 >don't read _every_ post. I usually just scan for subject titles
 >that might interest me and for posts to threads that I am taking
 >part in.

 >John Velez

Oh well, you saw this one! ;-))


Martin Shough







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                          Re: UFO Stats - Alexander

From: James Alexander <james-m-alexander@rogers.com>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 20:41:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:29:36 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Stats - Alexander


 >From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:41:55 -0700
 >Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 23:33:37 -0400
 >>From: James Alexander <james-m-alexander@rogers.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Stats

 >>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Stats
 >>>Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:36:31 -0300

 >Hello James, Stan and The Gang,

 >James, the subject to which you refer to as having a "reputation
 >of being the topic of choice for 'Kooks", just for the record,
 >was the 'topic of choice' of the most powerful men on the planet
 >over fifty years ago! That is to say those 'kooks', i.e., the
 >men that ran our government and our military, not mention top
 >scientists of the time etc., were the ones that chose to involve
 >themselves with this topic.

<snip>

Hi Frank,

Those are the people who claim those of us who investigate
ufo's,  witness them or even think the possibility isn't absurd
are all kooks.  Nuff said.






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             Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 13:42:11 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:31:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden


 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 08:07:57 +0100
 >Subject: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1

 >Except from

 >Stargate SG1 - The Illustrated Companion Seasons 1 and 2
 >- Thomasina Gibson - August 2001

 >The references in the episode ('Touchstone') to Area 51, the
 >real-life, ultra-top-secret Air Force base in the Nevada desert,
 >caused some problems with the powers-that-be, who proved rather
 >sensitive.

 >"Originally, in the script, we had O'Neill saying something
 >like, "Is this where we keep the little green men?" Jonathan
 >Glassner reveals. "But the Air Force has full approval of all
 >our scripts, and they called back and said, "There are no aliens
 >in Area 51. You can't keep that line in." I explained that it
 >was a joke, but they just repeated. "There are no aliens in Area
 >51." So I then asked if I could use their response in the
 >script!

 >We actually ended up going with O'Neill saying, "Is this where
 >they keep the aliens?" and the officer replies, "There are no
 >aliens in Area 51." Then O'Neill looks at Teal'c and says,
 >"Present company excluded."

This is reminiscent of what happened to the makers of the movie
Independence Day.

Basically they said we like the script and we'll help with any
technical info but leave out all references to Area 51.

Since Area 51 was a major part of the plot it stayed in.

Possibly they want no reference to Area 51 containing aliens or
flying saucers simply because they don't wish to further the
myth.


Dave Bowden







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                             Where's The Doctor?

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 13:55:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:34:24 -0400
Subject: Where's The Doctor?

Hi all,

Just lately I've noticed something slightly different about
UpDates.

Then it suddenly occurred to me, there's been no mails from the
GrippleMaster.

Maybe I skipped a post or something.

If you're out there Jim, throw us a bone!


Dave Bowden







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                      Vast Oceans of Water Ice on Mars

From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com>
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 11:14:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:36:31 -0400
Subject:  Vast Oceans of Water Ice on Mars


------------------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : Web Log May 26, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com

------------------------------------------------------------
VAST OCEANS OF WATER ICE ON MARS
martian enigmas

photo: Mars (Hubble Space Telescope)
http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/MarsHST.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - According to the BBC, NASA is prepared
to confirm the existence of vast oceans of water ice just below
the surface of Mars. New data now confirms preliminary findings
announced earlier this year.

Evidence has shown that water existed on Mars in the past, and
scientists now believe that vast quantities of water are frozen
in the layer of loose rock and dust on the surface. There is
enough ice to cover the planet in an ocean hundreds of meters
deep.

Exobiologists have a saying, "Where there's water, there's
life." According to the BBC, "Water is essential for life, so
the discovery enhances the belief that Mars could have had life
in the past and perhaps in the present as well. "

------------------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

26-May-02
Ice oceans found on Mars

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2009000/2009318.stm

(BBC News) - Water-ice has been found in vast quantities just
below the surface across great swathes of the planet Mars... The
finding by the American space agency NASA is undoubtedly one of
the most important made about the Red Planet.

------------------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
May 26, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

------------------------------------------------------------
The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web
links. The content reproduced here is for informational purposes
only. All copyrights Acknowledged.

eWarrior@electricwarrior.com







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                          Re: Bad Astronomy - Cohen

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 14:28:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:42:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Bad Astronomy - Cohen


 >From: Phil Plait <badastro@badastronomy.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: 21 May 2002 18:11:34 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Bad Astronomy - Cohen

 >[Non-Subscriber Post]

 >>Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 07:32:26 -0400
 >>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Bad Astronomy
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

<snip>

 >Second, you can show me a list of tens of thousands of
 >amateurs who saw something they cannot identify, and
 >that does not make these reports "the real thing".

jc      You are absolutely correct and I do not expect you to be
convinced by the reports I posted but, rather, I had hoped they
would suggest the possibility of keeping an open mind in general
regarding UFO phenomena.


 >Numbers are not conclusive; the evidence must stand on
 >its own despite how many people report it. Certainly, the
 >number of people reporting weighs heavily towards
 >'something' having ocurred, but it does not lend any
 >credence to what it was.

 >That's my basic point. Individual anecdotes, while
 >interesting, are generally inconclusive. Massive reports
 >are veen more interesting, but without concrete evidence
 >they are little better than individual anecdotes.

 >Thanks for writing,

 >Phil

 >*    *    *    *    *    The Bad Astronomer    *    *    *    *

 >The Bad Astronomy Web Page:
 >http://www.badastronomy.com


jc      I don't disagree with this either as long as while one
is analyzing his accumulated evidence, he keeps his mind and
eyes open just enough to be able to see the summation of same.
We have some skeptics who want it both ways. To some, a case is
not good enough if it has too few witnesses and it also isn't
good enough if it has too many witnesses. For an example of the
latter, read Mr. Harney describing Ms. Randles' theory. From
Magonia Bulletin #1, 1998:
http://www.cohenufo.org/Trindade/magbul1.htm#ethbrit

I'm not asking you to consider the abduction case
scenario, just the logic being used by Mr. Harney.

Hopefully we agree that generalities don't make a study and that
you have to get down to the nitty-gritty details of various
cases somewhere along the line. The revised Blue Book statistics
I see being discussed in some of these posts are nothing more
than "generalities" on an incomplete collection of data. Even
though Hynek and Hendry reevaluated  the Blue Book cases, Hynek
still felt that there were a large number of close encounter
cases that weren't reported due to the "ridicule" factor
generated by the assumed Air Force and Condon study stances
regarding UFOs.

 From his book: The Hynek UFO Report, chapter 11, 'The Air Force
Numbers Game' - Dell Publishing, Inc. 1977

Hynek lists the revisited number of unidentifieds by year from
1947-69, totaling approximately 640. (Which worked out to about
5.8% unidentified after reexamination.)

Then he lists them by category <snip>and states afterwards,
some data was missing. (Brackets below are mine for emphasis.)

.....begin excerpt.....
"It is rather surprising that nocturnal lights do not lead
the list, as they do in most other studies.

Less surprising is the fact that [far fewer high- strangeness
cases did not reach the Blue Book list as did. (jc i.e. were
recorded) Probably the figure is 10 times the cases than 5. I
surmise the factor was larger in the later years of Blue Book
because by that time the 'all is nonsense approach' of the Air
Force was well known and it had become clear to the general
public that reporting strange UFO events to the Air Force was
not only pointless as a serious scientific matter, but was also
apt to bring ridicule to the reporter.]

*       We have ample evidence, not only from the reports
received by the Center for UFO Studies, which is a
relatively new organization, but from the two oldest
civilian UFO fact gathering organizations, the Aerial
Phenomena Research Organization and the National
Investigations Committee for Aerial Phenomena, that a
large number of "high strangeness" cases have, in fact,
occurred -  particularly Close Encounter cases of all
three types."
.....end excerpt.....

jc      After my own sighting, I knew I could not convince
anyone that was not there with me of the reality of that event,
especially when the Air Force and scientific establishment were
saying it couldn't possibly exist. So, I went looking for
evidence that might give me some proof concerning what I had
seen.

Some of what I found along the way:
(Some of which you may already be aware)

The Air Force's study (Blue Book) was really a "non-study" and
its statistics invalid. Its own civilian scientific advisor had
blown the whistle on it. Here are some excerpts concerning Blue
Book from a letter Hynek wrote to his boss, Colonel Raymond
Sleeper.

http://cohenufo.org/ocr.5a.html#slprlet

Likewise, the civilian scientific establishment wasn't any more
enlightened or enlightening regarding UFOs. They (Condon UFO
study) never performed an "honest" study partially because of
their fear of the same "ridicule" factor mentioned previously
and because the heads of the study felt it was impossible in the
first place. Politics ruled over "Science." (see #'s 6 & 7 at
the following URL)

http://cohenufo.org/topicsaddr.html#condtopc

And then I discovered some interesting items amongst
the cases that were still coming in, despite all the
pronouncements it couldn't possibly exist.

FOIA Releases:

In 1978, FOIA releases by the government showed various
government agencies discussing what was apparently a fairly
detailed observation of an encounter between an F-4 fighter and
a UFO which had been rumored prior to that.

http://cohenufo.org/Nsday.Art.79.html

However one could say to himself, perhaps it was still only a
rumor. Maybe they were all fooled by it.

However, additional cases continued to manifest themselves; many
sightings detailed and yet unexplained. Close examination of the
cases revealed interconnecting details.

Two interesting examples: Two separate, verified sightings in
two different countries, each appearing to be either a
"duplicate" or the "same" object exhibiting maneuvers,
technology, etc. which we still have a hard time believing, but
also in which we have gun camera data to support it. (and if
there, where else?)

The first event (there was actually 632 cases, I'm only
selecting one), Belgium NATO 1989/90. Detailed information about
the case and world-wide discussions are located at:

http://cohenufo.org/authorsc.html#Belgium

It is easy to say "well, maybe it was a military black project"
and yet why would it be flown over the populated areas where it
was seen? .. and the observations recorded by some policemen in
that and some of the other 631 cases was astounding, so much so
that the commander of the Belgium NATO forces felt compelled to
bring it to the public's attention.

Then, in January 2000, a sighting by policemen in Illinois, USA
of what appears to be a duplicate of or the same "craft."  I use
the word craft because the sighting was so detailed, no other
description is possible. You can find this on the page of the
previous URL. The best Philip Klass could do was to say that it
was the planet "Venus"; obviously an insult to the policemen
that reported it. Also note that NIDS, a group of Ph.D.'s
including Edgar White, 6th man to walk on the moon is supporting
same.

Remembering the past:

Then we start remembering things seen in the past and that we
were saying basically the same things about them back then.
Flyovers of silent objects or craft, and these "craft" haven't
appeared in our technology in all that time; cases that were
thoroughly investigated at the time. Here's one; Kirtland Air
Force Base 11/4/57, a case investigated by the Condon Study,
rubber stamped by the NAS, and reinvestigated by scientist James
McDonald, who meticulously delineated the lack of investigation
in that case and found major witnesses no one had bothered to
contact. Why? ...because "it can't be, so why bother."

http://cohenufo.org/ocr.7b.html

Given these anomalies and interconnecting details, UFO
investigators feel there is good reason to dig further into the
entire situation. The mere existence of these cases is enough to
tell a person who saw a UFO for himself that there is at least a
chance he may not be as crazy as some people would make him out
to be.

Another example; Trindade 1/16/58

http://cohenufo.org/unsolved.html#Trindade_IGY

Again, I am not saying we have scientifically proven that UFOs
are ET, but there are some "strong" indications that we should,
at the very least, be keeping an open mind to this.

Then there was the matter of physical evidence::

http://www.cohenufo.org/ufotrace1.html

When the Rockefeller report was submitted to the Stanford
Sturrock committee by the three major UFO groups for grilling,
although they didn't find enough evidence to conclusively prove
an ET connection, they did decide there was enough
circumstantial evidence to warrant revising Edward Condon's
original findings. They left some room for ufologists and
scientists to be permitted to delve into this further with a
modicum of respect.

http://cohenufo.org/authorsc.html#rckrpt

Why did they do this? Who wants to go down in history as one of
those people or groups who was positive something was impossible
and then have your name live on in infamy into eternity? Not a
pleasant prospect. That's why they left the door open regarding
the question of UFOs.

Therefore, as I said earlier in this post, my anecdotes
regarding  those amateur astronomers were to try to help us keep
an open mind to the entire question of UFOs. Phoney cases,
hoaxed cases, by all means, please dig in and rip them to
shreds; I'm all for it. The videotaped testimonies gathered by
Peter Gersten and Steven Greer need to be examined closely.
Greer himself said he hadn't time to go through them all and
perform a "weeding out" but, if even a few of them are valid,
then we can see even more support for an ET hypothesis.

So, please don't close your mind completely to the possibility
that one or more of these cases may be real. For the reasons
given above, it is not impossible you could be making a really
big mistake.


Thanks for answering,

Jerry Cohen

http://www.cohenufo.org/








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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 16:09:28 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:44:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 04:05:08 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:07:02 -0300

<snip>

 >>2. The Rhoad's picture is very well known and shows up all over.
 >>DEA has a vivid imagination.

 >>Stan Friedman

 >The date discrepancy is damning, that's true, but there might be
 >a connection, still, due to the proximity of time and place and
 >the similarity between the wedge-shape of the Rhodes craft and
 >the form most commonly attributed to the Roswell craft.

 >For an illustration and elaborate discussion of the Rhodes craft
 >go to Linda Moulton Howe's 'Earthfiles' site,

 >http://www.earthfiles.com/earth099.htm


Hi Stan or Stig,

Can the document that includes drawings and states:

Notes and sketches by Frank J. Kaufmann in July 1947 at the site
of a downed craft "of unknown origin" some 40 miles north of
Roswell. Submitted to Roswell Army Air Field headquarters in a
July 26, 1947 report. Shown with Mr. Kaufmann's permission.

Be verified as authentic?

Don Ledger







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               Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction -

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 12:48:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:47:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction -


 >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction
 >Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:44:03 -0700

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:40:05 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction

 >>>From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:08:58 EDT
 >>>Subject: Chilean Electrician Alleges UFO Abduction

 >Dear Harry Hatch,

 >>One might well argue that EFE has better access to Latin
 >>America data
 >>than I do. I certainly hope so.

 >It could help many  Latin American ufologist, if you post your
 >list of Latin American or Spanish speaking countries.

 >I, myself, do not trust any news agencies polls or statistic.
 >I'll be happy to spread your work, with your permission, to the
 >Spanish speaking lists.

 >Regards,

 >Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo

 >Miami UFO Center
 >http://www.geocities.com/ufomiami.geo/index.html


Hello Virgilio:

The name is Larry with an L. I was once introduced as Harry
Latch to the laughter of a large high-school audience!

My Latin American data is of course something of an
embarrassment, I cannot provide data which I do not possess!

Many of the cases came from the full run of APRO Bulletins. They
had a number of good Latin American correspondents as sources.

Others come from FSR for similar reasons, plus a few books I
could locate, among them: Los Evidencias de los OVNI by Rudolfo
Banchs ( Argentina 1976); UFOs and Abductions in Brazil by Irene
Granchi and so on.

Thus various countries are poorly represented here, some not at
all. Thus, the following list is more an indication of the
availability of information here, than it would be of actual UFO
activity there.

With that strict reservation, here are my counts for Latin
America so far:

South America  ( by case counts )

Brazil:     547
Argentina:  287
Venezuela:  103
Chile:       97
Peru:        59
Uruguay:     30
Colombia:    18
Bolivia:     15
Guyanas:      7  (3 states combined)
Ecuador:      6
Paraguay      4

Mexico / Central America

Mexico       81
Costa Rica   11
Guatemala    10
Panama        8  (includes Canal Zone)
Honduras      7
Nicaragua     3
El Salvador   2
Belize        0

Please also note that only cases with identifiable dates and
places are included. Fortean phenomena, chupacabras, crypto-
  zoology in general, religious visitations etc. are excluded.


I hope this helps a little

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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   May > May 26

             Eras News: The Mars Initiative - Ice Oceans on Mars

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 19:55:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:48:28 -0400
Subject: Eras News: The Mars Initiative - Ice Oceans on Mars


ERAS NEWS
The E-News Service of The Eras Project

http://www.geocities.com/erasproject

May 26, 2002

_____________________________


THE MARS INITIATIVE - ICE OCEANS ON MARS

(As it develops, The Mars Initiative, a new special research
project of The Eras Project, will bring the latest news,
information and special reports regarding the search for
evidence of possible life on Mars, past or present and the
continued exploration of this fascinating world. Eras News will
include these updates as well as the Weekly Briefing on various
future studies related issues and other reports. The TEP web
site is also under re-construction).


Ice Reservoirs Found on Mars
BBC News
May 26, 2002

Water-ice has been found in vast quantities just below the
surface across great swathes of the planet Mars. The finding by
the American space agency (Nasa) is undoubtedly one of the most
important made about the Red Planet. It solves one of its
deepest mysteries, points the way for manned exploration and
reignites the question of whether life may exist on the planet.
Insiders suggest that, partly as a result of this finding, Nasa
may now commit itself to a manned landing within 20 years. The
US space agency will make the dramatic announcement about the
water-ice next Thursday. And full disclosure of the findings
will come in the journal Science later that day...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2009000/2009318.stm


The Mars Initiative is a special research project of TEP,
advocating the continued exploration of Mars, including manned
missions and eventual colonization as part of mankind's next
steps outward into the solar system and beyond; a major focus of
TMI is the search for and examination of evidence for life, past
or present, on this the most earthlike of the nearby worlds.

____________________________


Eras News is the e-news service of The Eras Project, providing
the latest news, reports and updates, including the Weekly
Briefing, sent free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe Eras News in the
subject line to:

psa@look.ca

The Eras Project is a non-profit future studies project focusing
on the leading-edge news, events, ideas and discoveries that
will shape the future of humanity as we enter the 21st Century
and a new Era.

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/erasproject

=A9 The Eras Project, 2002







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                                Marston Moor?

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 00:42:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:29:01 -0400
Subject: Marston Moor?


Hi All,

Long time no post from me, and this is slightly off topic, but
within the realms of strange happenings.

Can anyone point me towards a book, or a piece of research on
any investigations into the ghostly apparitions on the English
Civil War battlefield of Marston Moor?

I am looking into 'cross-over' patterns within real time.

Any help would be appreciated.


Best,

Roy..


Roy Hale is Web Master of
The Lost Haven http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk
And Editor of: Down To Earth Magazine.

Articles On the UFO Subject,  Buy On Line Research CDs,
FREE Downloads, Business Marketing, Web Links,
Art & Culture and much more!







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                     Re: Where's The Doctor? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:48:17 +0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:31:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Where's The Doctor? - Lehmberg


 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 13:55:01 +0100
 >Subject: Where's The Doctor?

 >Hi all,

 >Just lately I've noticed something slightly different about
 >UpDates.

 >Then it suddenly occurred to me, there's been no mails from the
 >GrippleMaster.

 >Maybe I skipped a post or something.

 >If you're out there Jim, throw us a bone!


The GrippleMeister doesn't feel welcome, respected, or
comfortable here anymore, hoss, and has tactfully (perhaps
permanently) excused himself. I'll let him know you were asking
for him... sure to warm his cockles (whatever the hell _they_
are!). Tune the VSN archives for AOO #365 and his current
doings.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com



~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 20:13:27 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:40:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 16:09:28 -0300
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 04:05:08 +0200
 >>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >>>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:07:02 -0300

 ><snip>

 >>>2. The Rhoad's picture is very well known and shows up all over.
 >>>DEA has a vivid imagination.

 >>>Stan Friedman

 >>The date discrepancy is damning, that's true, but there might be
 >>a connection, still, due to the proximity of time and place and
 >>the similarity between the wedge-shape of the Rhodes craft and
 >>the form most commonly attributed to the Roswell craft.

 >>For an illustration and elaborate discussion of the Rhodes craft
 >>go to Linda Moulton Howe's 'Earthfiles' site,

 >>http://www.earthfiles.com/earth099.htm


 >Hi Stan or Stig,

 >Can the document that includes drawings and states:

 >Notes and sketches by Frank J. Kaufmann in July 1947 at the site
 >of a downed craft "of unknown origin" some 40 miles north of
 >Roswell. Submitted to Roswell Army Air Field headquarters in a
 >July 26, 1947 report. Shown with Mr. Kaufmann's permission.

 >Be verified as authentic?

Don, List, All -

I probably spent more time with Frank Kaufmann than anyone else.
We talked long and hard, and I often challenged him to present
the evidence. He showed me documents, but allowed me to keep but
a few (those were photo copies and the only thing that I can
tell you is that they were written on a typewriter from the
proper era and nothing more). He claimed that he had the
evidence and when the time was right he would produce it but he
never did.

I wrote a long article about Kaufmann that appeared in FATE in
December... the first issue that Phyllis Galde published (using
the term publisher here to mean owner). I think it is a balanced
look at what Frank did, what he said, what evidence supported
his claims and where his claims broke down.

In the end, the answer to the question, without spin, without
personal agenda is a simple, "No."


KRandle






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                  Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:03:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:44:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1


 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1
 >Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 13:42:11 +0100

Good Morning Dave

 >This is reminiscent of what happened to the makers of the movie
 >Independence Day.

 >Basically they said we like the script and we'll help with any
 >technical info but leave out all references to Area 51.

 >Since Area 51 was a major part of the plot it stayed in.

 >Possibly they want no reference to Area 51 containing aliens or
 >flying saucers simply because they don't wish to further the
 >myth.


I could kinda agree. Or it could be that they have had a sense
of humour by-pass?

I think that it still has something to do with the fact that it
is still not marked on any maps, and they still wish to stay low
key. And a for aliens, are we ever likely to truly find out?


Regards,

Sean







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                Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:20:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:46:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? - Jones

 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:11:19 EDT
 >Subject: Re: 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?


Good Morning Bob

Sorry about the delay answering, but I have had a chest
infection that kept me in bed for a few days.

 >Hi, Sean:

 >What about the things most close to many moving UFO reported,
 >meteors, satellites or even aurorae? I get your point, which
 >could be true about objects being observed through 'scopes, but
 >there are enough other interesting astronomical events occurring
 >within the atmosphere that I find it hard to believe they
 >wouldn't go unnoticed.

I have been on enough Sky Watches to know that on every one that
I have been on, some "newbie" claims to have seen a UFO, I then
have to patiently explain that it is a satellite.

Most believe me, one or two have not. I have also heard with my own
ears, "wow that UFO disguised itself as a plane as soon as it saw us
watching it!"

Now I am a confirmed "believer" that Earth _is_ being visited by
aliens from other planets, but this kinda "kook" disturbs me,
and this is also why Ufology gets a bad rap.

So with this in mind, I can clearly see why any professional or
amateur astronomer does not want to associate with UFO's or even
bother to report seeing them. I don't doubt they _do_ see them
either.

 >>I am reasonably confidant than something like 99.999% of
 >>reported UFO's are within our atmosphere

 >I assume that here you're talking about UFOs as remaining
 >puzzles after IFOs have been elliminated. Astronomical UFOs such
 >as planets and stars certainly represent a larger percentage
 >than (Stan, are you reading this?) one thousand of one percent
 >of the total reports.

 >This question is an interesting one, though. I think the key
 >point is that amateur astronomers are deliberately looking up in
 >the sky much more often than the average person. And they have
 >some knowledge which would presumeably rule out most of the
 >common IFOs.

As I said in another post, I have been looking for several
years, but it wasn't until recently that I saw a genuine UFO.
The simple reason for this was with my experience it was fairly
simple to "resolve" nearly all sightings that had. I am pretty
confidant that if an astronomer can't identify a planet, he
would be shot, or at least "thrown out".

 >>It's just that it's the last few that remain _unexplained_ that
 >>interest us mortals <g>

 >Can't argue with that.

Muchos gracias

 >Clear skies,

 >Bob Young


--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                      SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:06 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:37:48 -0400
Subject: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'


SDI 190 May 25 'Media Not Covering Up'

Hi

I was really glad to hear it's merely lack of public interest in
"old news", and that's all that's keeping UFO matters out of
the media, per SDI show #190's guests. _Whew_, and all
this time (50 years) I thought the media were covering up!

That means since UFO stories are equal in "oldness" to any other
repetitive story genre, we can now expect the media to start
reporting them routinely.

Must have been a mere oversight.

After all, other genres that are also "old news" include:

- politics
- war
- entertainment
- sports
- disasters
- airplane crashes

Anyone know, now that the oversight is corrected, when we can
expect the first UFO story to be printed or aired along side all
the other "old news"?


Eleanor White







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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:02:27 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:11:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 20:13:27 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 16:09:28 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 04:05:08 +0200
 >>>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >>>>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:07:02 -0300

 >><snip>

 >>>>2. The Rhoad's picture is very well known and shows up all over.
 >>>>DEA has a vivid imagination.

 >>>>Stan Friedman

 >>>The date discrepancy is damning, that's true, but there might be
 >>>a connection, still, due to the proximity of time and place and
 >>>the similarity between the wedge-shape of the Rhodes craft and
 >>>the form most commonly attributed to the Roswell craft.

 >>>For an illustration and elaborate discussion of the Rhodes craft
 >>>go to Linda Moulton Howe's 'Earthfiles' site,

 >>>http://www.earthfiles.com/earth099.htm

 >>Hi Stan or Stig,

 >>Can the document that includes drawings and states:

 >>Notes and sketches by Frank J. Kaufmann in July 1947 at the site
 >>of a downed craft "of unknown origin" some 40 miles north of
 >>Roswell. Submitted to Roswell Army Air Field headquarters in a
 >>July 26, 1947 report. Shown with Mr. Kaufmann's permission.

 >>Be verified as authentic?

 >Don, List, All -

 >I probably spent more time with Frank Kaufmann than anyone else.
 >We talked long and hard, and I often challenged him to present
 >the evidence. He showed me documents, but allowed me to keep but
 >a few (those were photo copies and the only thing that I can
 >tell you is that they were written on a typewriter from the
 >proper era and nothing more). He claimed that he had the
 >evidence and when the time was right he would produce it but he
 >never did.

 >I wrote a long article about Kaufmann that appeared in FATE in
 >December... the first issue that Phyllis Galde published (using
 >the term publisher here to mean owner). I think it is a balanced
 >look at what Frank did, what he said, what evidence supported
 >his claims and where his claims broke down.

 >In the end, the answer to the question, without spin, without
 >personal agenda is a simple, "No."


Thanks Kevin,

Those drawings [the concepts] are well in advance of that time.
I'ts really only now that we are seeing the plan form and flat-
plate drag reduction shown in those drawings with the possible
exception of the SR-71's blended fuselage to wing design.

When did these docs surface?


Don Ledger







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                         First ET 'Implant' Stories?

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 17:21:40 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:17:06 -0400
Subject: First ET 'Implant' Stories?


Hello All,

in a French Mail-List dealing with fortean subjects, we are
discussing about the first stories of ET implants that appeared
in UFO-related papers or books.

Does anyone here have any information related to this subject?

We also seek real studies of supposed 'implants', like the
one reported by David Pritchard (Richard Price), or the small
report one can find at the NIDS website - 'Analyse Of An Alleged
Implant, pdf file at:

http://www.nidsci.org/whatsnew.html

Thanks a lot for your help,

Gregory Gutierez

http://greguti.free.fr/aleph
French-speaking mail-list for fortean weirdos







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                Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:49:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:19:21 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:06 +0000
 >Subject: SDI 190 May 25 'Media Not Covering-Up'

<snip>

 >when we can expect the first UFO story to be printed or aired
 >along side all the other "old news"?

Hi, Eleanor:

Ever heard of the Roswell, N.M., 'saucer crash'?


Clear skies,

Bob Young






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                Re: nknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:20:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:22:11 -0400
Subject: Re: nknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:02:45 +0200
 >Subject: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?


 >Source: Thee Under Ground, May 17, 2002.
 >Updated on May 20, 2002

 >http://www.theeunderground.com/ufo/

 >Some of you will take offence at the occult aspect, but the
 >author's findings are worth investigating.

This is Old Hat. When I first saw the claim of a, presumably
new, UFO photo from the FBI I wondered... what could that be?

I've had the FBI files for 25 years (about).

Anyone familiar with the early history knows of the Rhoads
photos which shows something shaped like the heel of a shoe.

It is discussed briefly in my book THE UFO/FBI CONNECTION.

***

 >1947 FBI UFO PHOTO!

 >PROOF THE US GOVERNMENT USED UFO TECHNOLOGY FOR STEALTH BOMBER!

**

 >Byline - D.E. Alexander Freelance Investigative Journalist and
 >Author

 >Special Assignment to Thee Under Ground

 >May 17th 2002

**

 >Today I was given an URL to the official FBI FOIA (Freedom Of
 >Information Act) web site. The site claims to have 1600 pages of
 >UFO documents released to the public.

 >The FBI UFO web page has 11 PDF File Links. I was told to
 >download all 11.

I was shown how to put all 11 files into a single PDF file. When
I did, I found out there are only 940 Pages, where are the other
660?

 >I was told to copy page 14 of the first file.

 >The page is really horrible, as many of the first few pages are.
 >They are basically illegible.

 >I was told how to copy and paste page 14 into my image-editing
 >program.

 >I was told how to negatize the image, the same process used on
 >the Shroud of Turin to reveal HIDDEN IMAGES.


 >As soon as I did, lo and behold, two washed out images became
 >two very clear images of REAL UFO's.

 >I did the same with the blacked out report page about these two
 >FBI UFO PHOTOS that was located two pages before THE FBI UFO
 >PHOTO EXHIBIT PAGE.

 >It was a DETAILED FBI SPECIAL AGENT REPORT filed by Agent Lynn
 >C. Aldrich (EIC - AAF, FDTHC) about how the images were taken in
 >Phoenix Arizona by a William Rhoads. The UFO photos were taken
 >Aldrich stated on July 7th 1947. That is the EXACT day of the
 >Roswell Crash in New Mexico!

 >Now this is INFORMATION RIGHT FROM THE FBI's PUBLIC RELEASE OF
 >DECLASSIFIED UFO INFO!

 >The FBI tried to confuse the public by inserting an irrelevant
 >page in between the OFFICIAL FBI REPORT on these images and the
 >actual EXHIBIT PAGE!

 >The most AMAZING thing is the first photo has the exact shape of
 >the B-2 STEALTH BOMBER!

Huh? Actually closer to the shape reported by Kenneth Arnold/
Now follows the hype:

 >For years we have all heard the Stealth Bomber was reversed
 >engineered technology from the Roswell Crash!

 >DAMN HERE IS THE PROOF!

 >What is a photo of the modern stealth bomber doing in an FBI
 >PHOTO FILE from July 7th 1947 THE EXACT DATE OF THE ROSWELL
 >CRASH?

 >Holy FOX MULDER!

 >How brazen was the FBI to release this info cleverly manipulated
 >so NO ONE would suspect THIS WAS THE SMOKING GUN to the whole
 >Roswell Crash story!

 >Below are the images.

 >Below are links to the full size page RIGHT FROM THE FBI that
 >you too can verify haven't been altered by me in anyway.

 >The only altering was by the FBI to try to hide THIS AMAZING
 >INFO.

How shall I say it: an "unintelligent" comment by someone who
knows nothing about the subject and comes upon it as if
he wer the first person to discover it.

<snip>

 >PS to Sollog fans. Yes the FBI agent filed the report July 14th
 >1947. 13 years to the EXACT DATE Sollog was born!

 >That's why us Sollog fans say SOLLOG RULES!

 >You can now purchase the complete 940 Pages of the FBI UFO FILE
 >in ONE EBOOK FILE! Also in this eBook are the UFO BLUE BOOK file
 >rom the FBI and the Magic 12 Report!

Why buy when you can download?

 >This article is CHAPTER ONE! Order THE FBI UFO FILE Here!

Get much more in The UFO FBI Connection! (which includes info
from the Air Force Intelligence files and the CIAP

 >I've combed through the entire file and featured several more
 >AMAZING Pages that you might have missed if you tried to read
t>he intentionally disjointed FBI File!

 >This is my 4th Book for Adoni Publishing!

 >Adoni Publishing has a $100,000.00 GUARANTEE that the images in
 >this article are right from the FBI's UFO FOIA release as of the
 >date of this article!

Not much chance of losing that $100,000.

 >They're here...

 >Editing Note: On 5/20/2002 I added the name of the Special Agent
 >that filed the report about the July 7th 1947 UFO Photos and the
 >name of the person that agent stated took the UFO photos to this
 >article. A search of Internet web pages and usenet posts reveals
 >THIS IS THE FIRST TIME anyone has mentioned agent Lynn Aldrich
 >in connection with the FBI and UFO's! The initials Agent Aldrich
 >used in the report are UNKNOWN as to his assignments.

Is it really relevant?

Rhoades' photos appear in the formely Top Secret document
'Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in hte U.S.' written in the
fall of 1948.







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   May > May 28

                      New Improved NY 'Aliens?' Picture

From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 03:22:21 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:25:28 -0400
Subject: New Improved NY 'Aliens?' Picture


Hello EBK et al,

We've been playing around with that still from the possible NY
UFO footage. It looks better in green, naturally! :) There's
also a comparison with nearly the same angle, 3 frames earlier,
which is quite interesting!

http://www.cairns.net.au/%7Etims/alienpics.html


Regards,

Dave








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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:29:42 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:47:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:02:27 -0300
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?


 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 20:13:27 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

<snip>

 >>In the end, the answer to the question, without spin, without
 >>personal agenda is a simple, "No."

 >Thanks Kevin,

 >Those drawings [the concepts] are well in advance of that time.
 >I'ts really only now that we are seeing the plan form and flat-
 >plate drag reduction shown in those drawings with the possible
 >exception of the SR-71's blended fuselage to wing design.

 >When did these docs surface?

Don, List -

I first talked to Kaufmann in 1989, after learning about him
from Walter Haut. In early 1989 he showed me copies of various
sketches he had made (and say what you will about the man, he
was, to my untrained eye, quite an artist) that showed some of
these things that would appear later. So, the earliest that I
saw them was 1989, prior to one of the articles in Mechanics
Illustrated but certainly after we all had had good looks at the
SR-71.

To answer the question, the documents surfaced in the early part
of 1989 and he offered more later, in 1990 and then in 1997, he
showed me a letter. But the illustrations showing the craft I
first saw in 1989.

KRandle








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                  Ocean On Europa Buried Too Deep To Reach?

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 20:40:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:08:42 -0400
Subject: Ocean On Europa Buried Too Deep To Reach?


No access to water world?

Ocean on Jupiter's moon Europa may be buried too deep to reach.
23 May 2002
PHILIP BALL

Still waters run deep on Jupiter's moon Europa, the prime
candidate for extraterrestrial life. The ocean of water thought
to enrobe the moon is covered by a crust of ice at least 19
kilometres thick, estimates Paul Schenk of the Lunar and
Planetary Institute in Houston, Texas.

Full article at:

http://www.nature.com/nsu/020520/020520-6.html


Joe







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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:59:18 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:10:57 -0400
Subject: Re:  Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 20:13:27 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

<snip>

 >I probably spent more time with Frank Kaufmann than anyone else.
 >We talked long and hard, and I often challenged him to present
 >the evidence. He showed me documents, but allowed me to keep but
 >a few (those were photo copies and the only thing that I can
 >tell you is that they were written on a typewriter from the
 >proper era and nothing more). He claimed that he had the
 >evidence and when the time was right he would produce it but he
 >never did.

Linda Howe refers to Kaufman's frail, yellowing
documents; certainly these are a vital piece of the
historical record.  Does anyone know who has them, or
what anyone intends to do with them?

Mac Tonnies








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                         Fate - Beware the Dark Side

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:01:00 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:21:58 -0400
Subject: Fate - Beware the Dark Side


Source: Fate Magazine, May 1, 2002,

http://www.fatemag.com/article.phtml?id=3D259

Stig

***

Beware the Dark Side

Feature Story FATE Magazine 2002-05-01 00:00:00

by Matthew Graeber

**

The modern era of UFO activity has been accompanied by sporadic
reports of UFOs leaving evidence of their presence on the
ground. They are also alleged to have produced a variety of
disruptive effects on terrestrial apparatus such as automobiles,
aircraft, power facilities, and radar stations.

Additionally, UFOs are also believed to produce (or induce) some
unusual effects on the individuals who have come into close
proximity with them. While many of these effects are thought to
be beneficial, still others represent an array of emotional and
physical injuries such as burns, skin blistering, eye
irritations, partial paralysis, and the loss of hair=97all assumed
to be caused by the UFO propulsion system=92s emissions or its
weaponry.

Perhaps the best documented of all the residual-effects cases is
that of Mrs. Betty Cash=92s encounter with a large, diamond-
  shaped, heat-producing UFO that was apparently being pursued by
a swarm of military helicopters. According to Mrs. Cash, her
friend Vickie Landrum, and Vickie=92s grandson, Colby (who also
witnessed the event), Mrs. Cash developed a number of lingering
medical problems after their close encounter and wrote to
various governmental and military agencies with the hope of
identifying the object that she, Vickie, Colby, and several
others had been exposed to on that fateful night (December 29,
1980) in Huffman, Texas.

Mrs. Cash passed away on the 18th anniversary of her UFO
encounter, reportedly from complications of the injuries that
she suffered from exposure to (radioactive?) UFO emissions.

The Pursuit

Approaching speeds of 92 miles per hour, a young nurse in New
Jersey attempted to elude a speeding UFO that suddenly appeared
at the right rear of her car and relentlessly followed her at an
estimated altitude of 100 feet above the tree-lined roadway and
just 50 feet behind her vehicle. She heard no sound. The UFO
appeared to be a convex, disk-like craft with an array of
rapidly flashing lights along its outer edge.

When questioned about her experience, the young woman exclaimed,
=93Ya know, I was really scared to death that they were going to
catch me=85 I mean, because they do all those horrible things to
people that they abduct.=94

Thus she informed the field investigator that she was fully
aware of the abduction scenario, which is often characterized by
abject fear and the infliction of physical pain. But had this
driver lost control of her vehicle, crashed, and died at the
scene of the accident, police investigators would have had no
idea that she had been pursued by a UFO or that her fear of
being captured by aliens were contributing factors to the
mishap.

Obviously, the young lady=92s fears are not unfounded, because
many abductees do report suffering quite a bit of traumatic
abuse at the hands of the aliens during the so-called =93medical
examination=94 phase of the abduction experience. While many
individuals may feel that they really would like to be taken on
board a UFO by extraterrestrials, many others shudder at the
very thought of experiencing such an ordeal.

The Cat and the Mouse

On November 8, 1973, a young Canadian couple and their three
small children were followed by a light-encrusted UFO that
chased their light truck for several miles. The couple attempted
to elude capture and exited Highway 417 at Russell Road in
Ottawa. Mr. and Mrs. Rick Bouchard described the UFO as a disk
that wobbled like a duck (a commonly reported UFO flight
characteristic) as it flew just above the roadway directly
behind their vehicle. Reportedly, the craft even lit up the
interior of an overpass that they coursed through in the
darkness. The shaken couple described their experience as
=93harrowing=94 and something which they and their children would
never forget. Subsequent investigative inquiries into the matter
by Canadian and American UFO researchers suggest that the entire
family may have been abducted=97although neither Bouchard, his
wife, or their children seemed to have any conscious
recollection of seeing the UFO beyond the Russell Road Exit
point.

UFO literature is replete with similar pursuit cases involving
autos, trucks, motorcycles, and aircraft of various types. In
some cases, the auto=92s ignition system is reported to
malfunction or the aircraft=92s inflight instrumentation suddenly
goes haywire. It=92s quite possible that some fatalities seemingly
attributable to human error and equipment failure may actually
have been the result of a UFO pursuit that took a tragic turn.



UFO Down=97Aliens Abroad

In Carbondale, Pennsylvania, on the night of November 9, 1974,
several teens reported seeing a fiery unidentified flying object
streak from the sky and crash into a defunct coal mining silt
pond. Police were dispatched to the scene and discovered a dim
light beneath the murky water=92s surface. When officers launched
a small boat and used a pole to probe the pond=92s bottom in
search of the object, the mysterious light suddenly appeared to
rush toward the boat! One lawman was said to have emptied his
service pistol at the oncoming beam; he then stumbled and fell
out of the boat.

Several miles away, near Lake Ariel (which is southeast of
Carbondale), two young brothers, who were home alone, listened
intently to radio accounts concerning the downed object . They
heard reports that several top UFO researchers, including the
late Dr. J. Allen Hynek, were converging on Carbondale in hopes
of assisting local authorities with retrieving the object in the
pond=97as well as protecting the public from any potential harm
that it might cause.

As it turned out, Dr. Hynek dispatched New York field
investigator Douglas Dains to the crash site. There, he was
joined by Bob Barry of the 20th Century UFO Bureau and myself as
representative of the UFO Report and Information Center. Of
course, wild rumors rapidly spread at Carbondale and into the
surrounding communities. Unconfirmed reports of alien creatures
being spotted on the ground were bandied about, in spite of the
fact that the dimly lit object retrieved from the silt pond was
actually a stolen railroad worker=92s signal lantern.

Meanwhile, back at Lake Ariel, the two youngsters, fearing that
aliens might invade their home, armed themselves and set out on
foot in the darkness with the hopes of reaching the refuge of a
neighbor=92s house. Sadly, as they made their way through a
thicket, one brother jokingly scared the other and was fatally
shot by his sibling. Here once more, the dark side of the UFO
phenomenon tragically touched the lives of a family even though
neither a spacecraft nor its occupants were ever in their
immediate vicinity.



UFO Murders

In another tragic report from England, a distraught grandmother,
who feared that her two young grandchildren were about to be
kidnapped by aliens, stabbed the youngsters to death in order to
spare them the ordeal that she believed they would suffer at the
hands of the Greys.

In the United States, a 39-year-old man pleaded guilty to
aggravated manslaughter in the death of his ex-wife and was
sentenced to 40 years in prison. He said that he was =93trying to
protect her from being kidnapped by aliens.=94

In yet another bizarre incident, a New York UFO researcher
conspired with other saucer buffs to use radioactive materials
to poison three Long Island community officials whom they
believed had covered up information about a couple of nearby UFO
crashes. The researcher has since undergone extensive
psychiatric evaluation at a maximum security facility.

In time, an ever-mounting number of suspects in murder cases may
attempt to explain their criminal behavior as an attempt to
spare their victims from abduction by extraterrestrials. One
must wonder whether these individuals are seriously deranged or
are merely fabricating a defense in hopes of a lighter sentence.
In any case, it is obvious that the phenomenon=92s dark side may
appear in many guises, ranging from fear to accidents to murder
and even to mass suicide.

UFO Suicides and Cults

Several well-established UFO cults have been negatively impacted
by their own distorted perceptions of the UFO phenomenon. Both
individual and group suicides have been linked to attempts to
communicate=97or unite=97 with intelligences from another world, and
perhaps even with creatures from another dimension. In many
cases, the aliens are thought to be benevolent beings (i.e.,
angels or gods). The cult members are led to believe that, by
shedding their mortal bodies, their souls can come into
communion with the space brothers.

In another strange incident, six young U.S. military personnel
abandoned their highly sensitive intelligence-gathering posts in
West Germany in order to rendezvous with a flying saucer=97not too
unlike the suicidal Heaven=92s Gate cult members. They, too,
believed in the dawning of a new world, described by friends of
the group=92s leader as being =93a curious combination of
fundamentalist beliefs and science fiction.=94 The Lord was
thought to be an alien who would return in a spaceship for his
chosen ones.

Talk Show Insights

The host of a Philadelphia radio talk show in 1994 was fielding
an array of questions on the UFO phenomenon. He invited his
listeners to share their UFO experiences. One memorable call
came from a woman who nervously told of what she believed to be
a UFO hot spot near her home. She would not dare to travel
through it at night unless she took a husband along. The host,
Richard Hayes (of Arthur Godfrey fame), quipped, =93Yours or
anybody=92s husband?=94 The lady laughingly replied, =93Oh, mine, of
course!=94

It appears that a silent segment of our society may be
negatively affected by the UFO/abduction phenomenon, as well as
by the media coverage and portrayal of its overall
character=97generally shown as being frightening and traumatic.
Many UFO experts and abduction experiencers would have us
believe that there is a beneficial and transformational lesson
in the pain and fear associated with alien abductions. Still,
people fear enduring such an experience. They reject the notion
that being selected for alien cross- breeding experimentation is
something to be desired.

Perhaps those who fear capture by advanced intelligences from
the stars are having totally justified reactions to the threat
and abuse that interfacing with such little monsters may really
represent. After all, if Earthlings kidnap and abuse other
Earthlings, it is a serious criminal offense punishable by
prolonged periods of incarceration. Are we to seriously assume
that =93advanced intelligences=94 from outer space have no such
concept of law?

Questions to Ponder

These simple questions immediately arise: Why should one desire
to be forcibly kidnapped, detained against one=92s will, and
subjected to the physical ordeals of examination by aliens?
Moreover, why should anyone willingly undergo the prolonged
anxiety and fear of repeated capture and unwanted invasive
experimentation?

Indeed, why would one passively submit to such criminal activity
and not attempt to defend oneself (or one=92s children) from the
scourge of lifelong abduction? Why would the experts not devise
a plan to thwart abduction attempts and spare the many
individuals who have come to them for help? To borrow a line
from The X-Files, =93the truth is out there,=94 but would we
recognize it among all the chicanery, controversy, and confusion
that presently hampers truly objective ufological inquiry?

Interestingly, a couple of top abduction researchers currently
inform us that the abduction phenomenon as we presently know it
may be drawing to a close. One wonders what sort of emotional
safety net they might be preparing for those abductees who have
become attached to their alien captors and to their new
identities as hybrid breeders. These are persons whose lives
have been directed down a path not of their own choosing, but
rather that of some inhuman creature=92s making=97or perhaps even
the result of some misguided researcher=92s bias.

For some individuals, the fear of UFOs is enough to cause them
to restrict their movements at night and steadfastly avoid
certain areas where UFO activity has been reported. This fear is
also apparently enough to push the mentally infirm to acts of
self-destruction as well as acts that harm others

Yet perhaps it is unfair to blame the aliens, for the dark side
is not necessarily part of the phenomenon itself. Human fears,
anxieties, expectations, and ill-founded notions are certainly
projected upon the mysterious UFOs and their little pilots. If
so, then we must a1so consider the possibility that the
beneficial and transformational aspects of the UFO encounter may
also be projections involving all-too-human wants, needs, hopes,
schemes, and desires regarding the coming of the saucers.

UFO Gurus

This essay would be terribly incomplete if I failed to mention
the various unscrupulous individuals involved in the UFO
movement who have exploited believers. Charlatans and con men
with all kinds of saucer-related scams have bilked unsuspecting
saucer fans both emotionally and financially. While several of
the early UFO bunko artists have passed away, a couple of them
still have a throng of =93faithful followers=94 who continue to hold
them in high regard and insist that they were truly in contact
with benevolent beings from another world.

Some of today=92s UFO subculture activities involve gatherings at
which group leaders attempt to persuade their followers to give
up all their worldly possessions in exchange for a saucer ride
to a utopian alien world=97a world filled with love, peace, light,
understanding, and eternal bliss. Investment schemes involving
getting in on the ground floor of soon-to-be marketed ultra-
  high-tech devices (allegedly reverse engineered from the study
of crashed flying saucer technology) may also come to fore.
Reportedly, such reverse technology has already given us the
transistor and the laser. There are even hints that time
machines may be available to the general public in the very near
future.

One of the earliest successful UFO scam artists (Silas Newton)
implied that technology recovered from a downed saucer found in
the desert of New Mexico in the late =9240s could be used to
pinpoint the location of oil-rich lands.

Within the Inner Circle

In the 1960s, an investigative journalist patiently sat in the
pew at the California Church of the UFO listening to a long-
  winded speaker. The preacher was espousing the virtues of being
a contactee and the dangers of drinking fluorinated water when a
sweet little old lady shuffled into the building and gingerly
took up a seat next to the journalist. After fidgeting a bit,
she finally settled in. She listened to the speaker for a few
moments, then shook her head in obvious displeasure. She
whispered to the journalist that the man behind the podium was
not to be considered a pillar of truth. The writer, thinking
that he had at last stumbled upon a ufological Deep Throat,
cautiously asked his new-found informant how she knew this to be
a fact. With a wink of her eye, the lady matter-of-factly
replied, =93I just got in from Saturn, sonny=97they told me all
about him.=94

Is It Really Spiritual Warfare?

The appearance of UFOs has been linked to fundamentalist
religious beliefs and expectations regarding an apocalyptic era
foretold to herald the end of this world. In fact, even many so-
  called secular folks believed that a great global calamity
would coincide with the change of the millennium, while others
believe that spiritual ufological forces of darkness and light
are actively engaged in a great battle for the possession of
human souls.

About 30 years ago, at a UFO conference in Chester, Illinois, a
speaker told a stunned audience that an aerial armada of UFOs
had already strafed, bombed, and totally destroyed their
community and that, although he couldn=92t provide them with the
exact date of the incident, he was certain that it had
happened=97at least on the spiritual plane. When pressed for
details, the speaker suddenly became woozy, fainted, and
collapsed on the dais=97 having himself succumbed to sinister
forces from outer space.

=93Where=92s the Proof?=94

If we have learned anything at all about UFOs in the last 50
years, it is that the phenomenon appears to have both a physical
and a psychical component to its makeup and overall character.
It is also a sociological phenomenon that needs to be
investigatively approached on a level of intensity rivaling that
involving an epidemic disease. It would be very helpful to have
some idea what percentage of the UFO enigma is actually
attributable to the projections and fantasies of the human mind
and which characteristics of the phenomenon are truly that of a
genuine anomaly.

Ten years ago, Dr. Richard C. Niemtzow, a UFO group consultant
from Clovis, New Mexico, suggested such a study to a major UFO
group. Its leadership was not listening then and is probably not
listening now. Rather, they would prefer to continue to rehash
time-worn accounts of covered-up saucer crashes and discuss the
finer points of the abductees=92 purely anecdotal stories. They
thereby prove absolutely nothing and learn little about the real
UFO phenomenon or the people who have reportedly interacted with
it.



No Need to Panic

In 1938, the Mercury Theater broadcast a radio adaptation of H.
G. Wells=92 classic science fiction story The War of the Worlds,
directed by future American film legend Orson Welles. The play
was presented as a breaking news story actually occurring in
nearby communities in New Jersey. A great panic ensued, causing
many to attempt to flee New York City or alert civil
authorities, while others armed themselves to their teeth in
anticipation of a full-scale alien invasion.

As a result of the panic, social scientists looking into the
matter felt that a deep-seated latent fear of aerial onslaught
by the German Luftwaffe, combined with the fear of impending
global conflict, was probably at the root of the hysteria. Could
it be that similar fears, tensions, and anxieties are pressing
at the back of our minds today? Indeed, is the fear of
unstoppable forces coming from the skies still lurking in the
collective psyche of our society?

We know that cavemen and the ancients feared, revered, and lived
in awe of strange things that came from the sky (such as
lightning, tornadoes, waterspouts, and so on). Could it be that,
in this age of enlightenment, we so-called modern men and women
are still affected by such inherent tendencies?



Ufological History

Over 50 years of intense UFO interest, investigation,
researching, evaluation, and theorizing by countless UFO
aficionados have enabled today=92s field investigators to better
examine, evaluate, and identify many of the unusual airborne
objects that are being reported. Yet a small percentage of the
reports continue to elude positive identification.

Many of these unknowns reportedly exhibit behavior that is
thought to be indicative of volition and so-called physics-
  defying aerobatics. But after all these years, the objective
UFO research community still does not know what that means or
even if these reported UFO behaviors can be positively linked to
nuts-and-bolt devices originating from an unknown earthly
location, another world, or even another dimension.

The UFO phenomenon has gone through the sighting, landing,
pursuit, occupant, contactee, saucer crash, governmental
conspiracy, and abduction phases. UFOs have been speculatively
linked to the Bible, ancient astronauts, Bigfoot, pyramid
building, power outages, crop circles, the Bermuda triangle,
cattle mutilations, Mothman, various technological advancements,
Nazi secret weapons testing, the lost continent of Atlantis, and
an array of alien implants beneath the skin of abductees. But to
date, UFOs are still completely =93unidentified=94 flying objects=97a
fact that many in the UFO community have conveniently forgotten.
That, too, is a dark and misleading side of the phenomenon.

*

Matthew J. Graeber founded the Philadelphia-based UFO Report and
Information Center (UFORIC) in 1972 and served as its director
until 1980.

**

=A9 FATE Magazine 2001 - 2002






   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 28

                          Voyager Newsletter No. 22

From: James Easton <editor@voyagermag.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 03:03:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:44:21 -0400
Subject: Voyager Newsletter No. 22


                     Voyager Newsletter No. 22


The following is a compilation, suitably edited, of research
findings and material which was predominately, although not
entirely, recently published on the 'UFO Research List' [UFORL].


I have for some time been searching for copies of the following
Kenneth Arnold publications:

1. 'I Did See the Flying Disks!', 'Fate' magazine, Vol. 1, No. 1,
Spring 1948.

2. 'Are Space Visitors Here', 'Fate' magazine, Vol. 1, No. 2,
Summer 1948.

3. 'The Flying Saucer as I Saw It', a booklet self-published by
Arnold in 1950.


I'm pleased to say that a copy of both FATE articles have kindly
been provided by a UFORL subscriber and a copy of Arnold's
booklet will hopefully be available soon.


'I Did See the Flying Disks!', is an almost exact duplication of
Arnold's lengthy letter/report to the Air Force.

Although there's accordingly no new information therein, a
related 'Vol. 1, No. 1' article is entitled 'The Mystery of the
Flying Disks', by FATE's publisher, Ray Palmer and contains an
addendum - Kenneth Arnold's story of his participation in the
Maury Island case investigation. Arnold does then add some
significant insights.

This also features the first published story of his second
'flying disk' encounter with those 20-25 small objects near La
Grande airfield, Oregon.


A wealth of further historical material from that FATE first
edition includes newspaper reports, photographs and an
interesting letter to the 'Seattle Times' from Major-General
Willis H. Hale, Commanding General of the Fourth Air Force. Hale
confirms 'official' policy, as at 25 August, 1947, was one where
only "reliable" reports will be investigated "in the interest of
national defense".

He has "no knowledge" of an explanation for the flying disk
tales and "no authentic information" to indicate why any
individual should hesitate to report a sighting, because of
concerns about 'secrecy'.


Arnold's Summer 1948 FATE article discusses explosions and
sightings which had been attributed to meteors. Together with
some 'flying disk' reports, incorporating a detailed analysis of
the Captain Mantell case evidence, Arnold portrays the overall
reality of an enigmatic phenomena.

No question that by this time he was a 'ufologist' and a
commendable writer on the subject.

Indeed, bearing in mind his Maury Island research, Kenneth
Arnold was a foremost ufologist, in addition to essentially
being responsible for the subject's foundation.



_Honey, I Shrunk the Disk_

In 'The Coming of the Saucers', circa 1952, Arnold wrote of his
'second flying disk observation':

"As I looked up from my instrument panel and straight ahead over
the La Grande valley, I saw a cluster of about twenty to twenty-
five brass coloured objects that looked like ducks".

[...]

"I was a little bit shocked and exited when I realized they had
the same flight characteristics of the large objects that I had
observed on June 24".


Arnold initially wrote of perceived "small disks" in FATE,
Spring 1948:

"It was July 30 at dawn I took off in my own plane, intending to
reach Tacoma before dark and contact Mr Dahl.

It was at 7:00 o'clock that morning I sighted a formation of
small disks going south at 4,000 feet as I was letting down at
La Grande, Oregon.

I attempted to turn and catch up with them, but they were out of
sight before I could complete my turn".

[...]

"I would judge them about thirty inches across, very thin, and
light brown in color".


A somewhat striking difference; "brass coloured" suggests that
the formation of small, 'duck-like' artefacts were metallic.

Conversely, Arnold's much earlier "light brown" description does
not.

How infinitely more likely is it why those 25 or so 'objects'
were in fact ducks [Oregon being prime duck country] than
miniature alien spaceships.


Similarly, Arnold's 1952 recollection reads, "I attempted to
make a turn and follow them but they disappeared to the east at
a speed far in excess of my airplane. I knew they were not ducks
because ducks don't fly that fast".

By comparison, in 1948 they were merely "out of sight before I
could complete my turn".


Even though it was a flock of 25 or so light-brown, duck-like
objects which "looked like ducks... I thought they were ducks
when I first saw them" [1952] and which were only 2-3 feet in
diameter, this evidently did not cause Arnold to rationalise how
utterly improbable it all was and whether there was a more
mundane explanation for these formations, with comparative
"fluttering" [in both sightings] flight characteristics, he kept
seeing.



_The Ever-Changing Story_

I'm presently not certain when Arnold wrote to the Air Force,
however, it was apparently just before 12 July, based on a
letter Arnold sent to the Commanding General of Wright Field on
that day - see:

http://pages.prodigy.net/thr-ok/sighting_that_started_it_all.htm


We know when Arnold's FATE article was written, as he helpfully
dates this within the text:

"On Tuesday, June 24th, 1947, I had finished my work for the
Central Air Service at Chehalis, Washington, and at about two
o'clock I took off from Chehalis, Washington, airport with the
intention of going to Yakima, Washington. My trip was delayed
for an hour to search for a large Marine transport that
supposedly went down near or around the southwest side of Mt.
Rainier in the state of Washington. (This airplane has been
discovered at the time of this writing - July 29, 1947.)"


It's now become clear that the FATE article is over 95 per cent
a verbatim copy of Arnold's letter to the Air Force.

The Air Force letter transcript I'm using and which I presume to
be accurate is online, at:

http://www.project1947.com/fig/ka.htm


By 29 July, Arnold seems to have edited slight parts of his
account. Most changes are understandable, others are puzzling.

Comprehensible are additional explanations and changes of
emphasis such as the following [Air Force letter shown first and
asterisks, if required, highlight the differences]:

"...I looked to the left and the north of Mt. Rainier where I
observed a chain of nine peculiar looking aircraft flying from
north to south at approximately 9,500 foot elevation and going,
seemingly, in a definite direction of about 170 degrees".

"...I looked to the left and the north of Mt. Rainier where I
observed a chain of nine peculiar-looking aircraft flying from
north to south at approximately 9,500 foot elevation and going,
seemingly, in a definite direction of about 170 degrees *north
to south*".


"I was determined to clock their speed, as I had two definite
points I could clock them by...".

"I was determined to clock their speed. I had two definite
points - Mt. Rainier and Mt. Adams - I could clock them by".


"Even though two minutes seems like a very short time to one on
the ground, in the air in two minutes time a pilot can observe a
great many things and anything within his sight of vision...".

"Even though two minutes seems like a very short time to one on
the ground, in the air in two minutes' time a pilot can observe
a great many things and anything within his *field* of
vision...".


"I have in my possession letters from all over the Unites States
and people who profess that these objects have been observed
over other portions of the world, principally Sweden, Bermuda,
and California".

"I have in my possession letters from all over the Unites States
and *Europe from* people who profess that these objects have
been observed over other portions of the world, principally
Sweden, Bermuda, and California".


"When I landed at Yakima, Wash., airport I described what I had
seen to my very good friend, Al Baxter, who listened patiently
and was very courteous but in a joking way didn't believe me".

"When I landed at Yakima, Washington airport I described what I
had seen to my very good friend, Al Baxter, who *is the General
Manager of Central Aircraft Company*. He listened patiently and
was very courteous but in a joking way didn't believe me".


"I look at this whole ordeal as not something funny as some
people have made it out to be".

"I look at this whole *affair* as not something funny as some
people have made it out to be".


"Even though I openly invited an investigation by the Army and
the FBI as to the authenticity of my story or a mental or a
physical examination as to my capabilities, I have received no
interest from these two important protective forces of our
country; I will go so far as to assume that any report I gave to
the United and Associated Press and over the radio on two
different occasions which apparently set the nation buzzing, if
our Military intelligence was not aware of what I observed, they
would be the very first people that I could expect as visitors".

"Even though I openly invited an investigation by the Army and
the FBI as to the authenticity of my story or a mental *and*
physical examination as to my capabilities, I received no
interest from these two important protective forces of our
country *until two weeks after my observation*. I will go so far
as to assume that *if our Military intelligence was not aware of
what I observed and reported to the United and Associated Press
and over the radio on two different occasions which apparently
set the nation buzzing, they would be the very first people I
could expect as visitors"*. [END OF EXTRACTS]


It seems Arnold is bringing his story up-to-date, noting that he
now has supportive letters from Europe and how the Army and FBI
did subsequently contact him.

Further proof is that he informed the Air Force:

"Although these objects have been reported by many other
observers throughout the United States, there have been six or
seven other accounts written by some of these observers that I
can truthfully say must have observed the same thing that I did;
particularly, the descriptions of the three Western [Cedar City,
Utah] Air Lines employees, the gentleman [pilot] from Oklahoma
City and the locomotive engineer from Illinois, plus Capt Smith
and Co-Pilot Stevens of United Air Lines".

By July 29, Arnold expanded:

"Although these objects have been reported by many other
observers throughout the United States, there have been six or
seven other accounts written by some of these observers that I
can truthfully say must have observed the same thing that I did;
particularly, the descriptions of the three Western Air Lines
employees of Cedar City, Utah, the pilot from Oklahoma City, the
locomotive engineer in Illinois, John Corlett, a United Press
correspondent of Boise, Idaho, Dave Johnson, news editor at the
Boise, Daily Statesman, Captain Smith, co-pilot Stevens and
Marty Morrow of United Air Lines, and Captain Charles F. Gebian
and Jack Harvey of United Air Lines both of whom on July 28,
1947, made their observation on United Air Lines flight 105
westbound out of Boise".


The significant point is that Arnold is carefully and
intentionally altering his written testimony. He's not being
careless in transcribing the Air Force letter/report.

It must therefore be deduced that the following alterations, in
which the case evidence is changed, are also deliberate:

  "Anyhow, I discovered that this was where the reflection had
come from, as two or three of them every few seconds would dip
or change course slightly, just enough for the sun to strike
them at an angle that reflected brightly on my plane".

"Anyhow, I discovered that this was where the reflection had
come from, as two or three of them every few seconds would dip
or change course slightly, just enough for the sun to strike
them at an angle that reflected brightly *in my eyes*".


"As I was flying in the direction of this particular ridge, I
measured it and found it to be approximately five miles so I
could safely assume that the chain of these saucer like objects
were at least five miles long. I could quite accurately
determine their pathway due to the fact that there were several
high peaks that were a little this side of them as well as
higher peaks on the other side of their pathway".

"As I was flying in the direction of this particular ridge, I
measured it and found it to be approximately five miles, so I
could safely assume that the chain of these saucer-like objects
were at least five miles long. I could quite accurately
determine their pathway due to the fact that there were several
*of them* as well as higher peaks on the other side of their
pathway".

Comment: If we hadn't been aware of Arnold's earlier version,
wouldn't it be taken that "several of them" refers to the
objects?

Even with an appreciation of the former, I would personally
still conclude that Arnold is now indeed referring to the
objects.


"As the last unit of this formation passed the southern most
high snow-covered crest of Mt. Adams...".

"As the last unit of this formation passed the *northernmost*
high snow-covered crest of Mt. Adams...".


"...I am making a drawing to the best of my ability, which I am
including, as to the shape I observed these objects to be as
they passed the snow covered ridges as well as Mt. Rainier".

"...I am making a drawing to the best of my ability, which I am
including, as to the shape I observed these objects to be as
they passed the snow covered ridges *at* Mt. Rainier". [END OF
EXTRACTS]


In his 1952 book, 'The Coming of the Saucers', co-authored with
Ray Palmer, Arnold wrote:

It was while going through my mail about the fifteenth of July
[1947] that for some reason or other I gave attention to one
particular letter that I had received. It was from a Mr. Raymond
A. Palmer. It was written on stationery with the letter head of
THE VENTURE PRESS. I didn't know who Raymond Palmer was and I
had never heard of the Venture Press. At the time, had I known
who he was, I probably wouldn't have answered his letter. It
wouldn't have been because he wasn't a sincere or a good man,
but later I found he was connected with the type of publications
that I not only never read but had always thought a gross waste
of time for anyone to read.

[...]

This letter from Mr. Palmer was far from being anything
sensational, but somehow it had a tone of softness and sincere
interest that appealed to me. I think I read that letter at
least ten times. Finally I answered it. I was intensely
interested in finding out who Raymond Palmer was and inquired
from all my friends as well as the newspaper offices here in
Boise. Nobody that I ran into had ever heard of either him or
the Venture Press.

His next letter arrived about a week later. In it he expressed
his desire to pay me if I would write down my experience for
him. This didn't particularly appeal to me. I had received other
letters and other offers. However, since Mr. Palmer was so
interested, I sent him a carbon copy of the report I had sent
the commanding officer of Wright-Patterson Field.
[END OF EXTRACT]


If anyone can please provide a copy of the actual Air Force
report, as opposed to an online transcript, we can resolve the
question of which changes which were made to that 'carbon copy'.



_Disklosure_

In Arnold's FATE story of his Maury Island investigations, he
recalls how Lieutenant Brown and Captain Davidson from 'military
intelligence' [apparently connected with the Fourth Air Force]
arrived at Tacoma - Arnold had requested some 'official'
involvement. Arnold immediately took them to task and asked them
to 'come clean' with him. What did they _really_ know about the
flying disks.

He explains what happened next:

"Captain Davidson asked my to come over and sit down on the bed
where he took out a pencil and piece of paper and drew me some
pictures. He said: 'We have several [surely only two - Editor]
photographs in our Intelligence Department that were taken by a
man in his front yard in Phoenix, Arizona, that are authentic.
They are pictures and good pictures of those flying saucers or
flying disks. I am drawing you here, Mr. Arnold, the photographs
that we have in our possession'.

He drew me a picture. First, of an almost round object that had
a dark circle in the center of it and made this remark: 'It
apparently seems, according to the negative, that this flying
disk had a hole in the center of it, or it could be a hole in
the center of it [yes, I know this doesn't make complete sense -
Editor].

I was being very much convinced by this time.

Then he drew another picture. This picture was really quite a
shock to me. He drew a picture of a half-moon that had a sort of
half-peak in the center of it. It was all rounded, easy flowing
lines, and this picture was of another type of disk. This is the
peculiar part of it and the reason I was shocked. On June 24th
when I made my observation of the nine flying disks, the second
one from the bottom looked exactly like the picture he drew. The
reason that I had never mentioned it or even talked about it or
said anything to anyone about this peculiar shaped disk was that
I thought the angle that I was looking from was the reason why
the second one from the bottom in this formation looked like the
one they drew in their picture, but upon reviewing my
observation carefully, I feel that if one had looked like that
picture, all of them would have looked the same which, of
course, they didn't. They had a convex angle at the tail instead
of a more or less concave angle rounded in shape. The peculiar
object which they drew is four times as wide as it is long and
the tips of its wings are rather bat-like and its center of
fuselage is exactly the same length as the tips of the wings".
[END OF EXTRACT]


Arnold mentions the two pictures taken on 7 July, 1947 by
William Rhodes in Phoenix and evidently the crescent-shaped,
outline sketch drawn by Captain Davidson was intended to depict
the 'craft' which Rhodes claimed to have photographed - as
presumably was also the circular profile with a 'hole in the
middle'.

Uploaded to UFORL's file area is a scan of those 'flying disk'
outlines he was shown, as recalled by Arnold:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/files/

This is as published in FATE, Spring 1948.

It now seems to be established that Arnold genuinely believed
these were representations of a 'flying disk', photographed by
William Rhodes on 9 July, 1947. As Rhodes' photographs were not
featured in the national press, Arnold would have been unaware
why, in truth, those outlines were never representative of the
'heel-shaped object' shown in Rhodes' pictures.

Either Davidson has not drawn the 'Rhodes' outline accurately,
Arnold has not recalled it correctly, or a combination of both.

However, not only did it appear to substantiate his own
sighting, he was now investigating claims of a 'flying disk'
which had allegedly been observed at length and had dumped
material debris on 'Maury Island'. According to the claimed
witness, Harold A. Dahl, his observed flying disks, 'were
doughnut-shaped, with a hole in the center'.

This was all clearly instrumental in Arnold's, perfectly
understandable, conviction why it corroborated evidence of a
'flying crescents/disks/doughnuts/saucers' reality.

Furthermore, hadn't the Air Force told him the photographs in
their possession were considered genuine.


However... there's a much closer resemblance between the Rhodes
object and Arnold's crescent than perhaps first evident.

Consider Arnold's version:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/arnold/crescent.jpg

Discount 'heel-shaped' and look at one of the Rhodes photographs
as being a similarly shaped 'crescent':

http://www.earthfiles.com/img/RhodesUFO.jpg

This explains why Arnold writes about how startled he was when
Davidson produced the sketch, and what must have appeared to
Arnold as momentous, corroboration.


Coincidentally, according to Rhodes, this is the correct
orientation - see:

http://www.earthfiles.com/earth099.htm

Therein, it's claimed:

"His photographs were taken late in the afternoon of Monday,
July 7, 1947 and published in The Arizona Republic on Wednesday,
July 9, 1947 upside down".


The 'Arizona Republic' published two front page photographs.

However, the left-hand-side photograph as shown on the
'Earthfiles' web site is truncated and the original newspaper
publication was of a much longer image, which shows buildings at
the bottom.

In 'The Mystery of the Flying Disks', Ray Palmer notes of Rhodes
photographs that, "Photo number one also included a skyline of
trees and a telephone wire, adding to its authenticity".

That photograph, at least, can not be upside-down.

What's also apparent [Ray Palmer helpfully includes a copy of
the entire 'Arizona Republic' feature] is that the first Rhodes
picture must surely be even more expansive than the long,
relatively 'thin' strip published.

Also, unless Rhodes' stated 'box camera' had a telephoto lens,
the 'second' photograph as published must be an enlargement from
an image which would show the proverbial bigger picture.

I have uploaded a copy of the original 'Arizona Republic' front
page feature [as reproduced in FATE] to the UFORL library:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/files/


What I presumed at first to be a third Rhodes photograph was
published by the 'Los Angeles Evening Herald and Express', also
on 9 July, 1947 [amidst an article on the Roswell case].

There's a copy on my web site, at:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/ftp/060.jpg

It's now clear this is not another photograph, there were only
two and the 'Los Angeles Evening Herald and Express' image is
from that same left-hand-side 'Arizona Republic' photograph.

Bizarrely, the 'object' shown is an artefact of some kind which
can be seen in the full-length copy of Rhodes' first photograph,
beneath the 'flying disk'.


Rhodes photographs were allegedly 'borrowed' by 'the Government'
and never returned. Did this include his negatives?

It seems we may have an answer to that question.

An online source states, "One week after the publication of the
photos in the Republic Rhodes was visited by an FBI agent and a
Intelligence officer from Hamilton Camp (California). The
visitors flooded the witness with innumerable questions and
asked him whether he would be willing to give the Air Corps the
photographs "for assessment". The photographer, in good faith,
let the officers take the documents, trusting they would
promptly be returned to him. One month later Rhodes asked to
have the pictures back but Washington replied that was utterly
impossible" - see:

http://www.jjbenitez-only-eyes.com/HTML_GALERIA/html%20inglesas/1947/1947_phoeni
x.htm

Although I am personally unable to verify any of this, I will
assume the basic premise is factual.

If Captain Davidson did say, "according to the negative", it
implies that 'Military Intelligence' did have possession of
same.


When looking for an online copy of the Rhodes photographs, I
came across a 1965 UFO report from a William Rhodes, in Phoenix:

http://www.xdream.freeserve.co.uk/UFOBase/Rhodes.htm

On the 'Earthfiles' web site, Linda Moulton Howe states:

"I talked with Mr. Rhodes in September 1999 at his Phoenix home
about how he came to take these rare photographs. He told me,
'During World War II, I was a flight instructor out at Falcon's
Field here in Phoenix. I taught flying as well as aircraft
identification. That gives me a leg up when I see something
flying, by looking at its shape and watching it maneuver and
fly, I can tell approximately how far it is away and how big it
is'."

As that 1965 report notes the claimed witness, "Briefly taught
aircraft identification during W.W. II", presumably it's the
same William Rhodes.


Alas, the perceived Maury Island 'flying disk' substantiation
was evidently borne of a hoax, as summarised in an online
article by Paul B. Thompson - see:

http://www.parascope.com/nb/cautionarytales/mauryIsland.htm



_'Flying Saucers' - A Deadly Affair_

Lieutenant Brown and Captain Davidson were killed when their B-
25 crashed en route from Maury Island.

Palmer's 'The Mystery of the Flying Disks', article cites a
report from the Chicago 'Sunday Times', dated 3 August 1947:

"Link 'Sky Metal' to Mystery Blast"

[...]

Whether the box of Maury Island "specimen molten lava" aboard
the plane had anything to do with the crash has caused
considerable speculation.

Authorities at (Hamilton) field admitted the plane had made a
flight to McChord field, outside Tacoma.

They said, too, that the airplane was carrying an "unclassified
cargo" and went on to describe it as "hot stuff".

Asked whether the cargo was connected with the Maury island
matter, a spokesman at the field said the query was "very close"
to the situation. [END OF EXTRACT]

In 'The Mystery of the Flying Disks', [Palmer's article
incorporating Arnold's report of his Maury Island investigation]
Arnold writes:

We heard through Crisman that morning that both the pilot and
the co-pilot were killed, but that two other men, a chief
engineer and a passenger, had parachuted to safety. [Captain]
Smith verified all this information at McChord Field. We found
that the bomber had been under military guard while Lieutenant
Frank M. Brown and Captain Davidson were interviewing us at the
Hotel Winthrop.

We also found out that the two men who parachuted from the plane
were ordered to parachute by the co-pilot who strapped chutes on
them and forced them out the door. The plane did not crash until
eleven minutes later. This was found out through the United
Press and their informants.

Ted Morello [United Press correspondent - Editor] let us listen
to the first recording of one of the men who had parachuted to
safety and who was slightly injured. It was the passenger. This
boy told the story that the left engine had burst into flame all
at once and that it happened about twenty minutes after the
take- off. It was also mentioned that the chief engineer had
said that the automatic fire fighting apparatus installed in
this airplane had failed to function.

There was a sheriff at Kelso who watched the plane in the air
and saw it crash. The description this man gave the press was
that the plane was observed at high altitude with the left
engine on fire. Its wings, tail and fuselage were intact. It
turned, went into a very steep dive and crashed into the
hillside. This steep dive lasted for quite some time before the
crash.

If a man is conscious and his airplane is on fire, the first
thought any pilot would have is to try to slow that airplane up,
as slow as possible, because he would rather crash at 90 miles
an hour than 250 or 300 miles an hour.

Their plane was intact; tail, rudder surfaces and wings. I know
both of these pilots and I saw their licenses. They were pilots
of the highest type of ability and would have slowed up that
airplane before they crashed. Were both of these men dead long
before their plane actually crashed and is that the reason their
plane was under little or no control?

Further, this airplane was equipped with the finest type of
radio devices. They did not radio or attempt to radio anyone
that their engine was on fire or that the plane was in trouble.
[END OF EXTRACT]


_If_ this is a reliable account, then Brown, and Davidson,
heroically gave precedence to saving their passengers.

Why though, as Arnold deliberates, didn't they save themselves?



_D'oh...nuts_

One mystery seemingly solved is why FATE's first ever cover
illustration is of a flying saucer with a hole or 'spot' in the
middle.

Aside from that outline shape being shown in the reproduction of
Davidson's sketches and that the Maury Islands UFOs 'were
doughnut-shaped, with a hole in the center', in 'The Mystery of
the Flying Disks', Palmer highlights comparative photographs and
sightings of these 'doughnuts'.

An accompanying article is entitled, 'What Were the Doughnuts?',
by John C. Ross, an 'aviation writer'. This is a fascinating
analysis of contemporary aircraft and possible classified
developments which could explain 'saucer' sightings.

Ross concludes there are no candidates.



_Flying Saucers and Where They Came From_

It seems to have generally been accepted that the 'flying
saucer' terminology originated when Kenneth Arnold's description
of those nine unfamiliar objects' flight characteristics had
been misconstrued by the press.

On 7 April, 1950, Arnold was interviewed by Edward R. Murrow, a
'popular news commentator of the 1940's and 1950's' and Arnold
explained:

MURROW: On three different occasions, Mr. Arnold was questioned
by military intelligence. They expressed doubt as to the
accuracy of some of his reported observations.

ARNOLD: That's right. Now of course some of the reports they did
take from newspapers which did not quote me properly. Now, when
I told the press, they misquoted me, and in the excitement of it
all, one newspaper and another on got it as ensnarled up that
nobody knew just exactly what they were talking about, I guess.

MURROW: Here's how the name "flying saucer" was born.

ARNOLD: These objects more or less fluttered like they were, oh,
I'd say, boats on very rough water or very rough air of some
type, and when I described how they flew, I said that they flew
like they take a saucer and throw it across the water. Most of
the newspapers misunderstood and misquoted that too. They said
that I said that they were saucer-like; I said that they flew in
a saucer-like fashion. [END OF EXTRACT]

See:

http://www.project1947.com/fig/kamurrow.htm


In his 1952 book, 'The Coming of the Saucers', Arnold noted, "As
I put it to newsmen in Pendleton, Oregon, they flew like a
saucer would if you skipped it across the water".

Martin Kottmeyer also appropriately commented, in an article
entitled, 'The Saucer Error':

While people presumably thought they were seeing the same things
that Kenneth Arnold saw, there was a major irony that nobody at
the time realized.

Kenneth Arnold hadn't reported seeing flying saucers.

In a memoir of the incident for the First International UFO
Congress in 1977 Arnold revealed the flying saucer label arose
because of a "great deal of misunderstanding" on the part of the
reporter who wrote the story up for the United Press. Bill
Bequette asked him how the objects flew and Arnold answered
that, "Well, they flew erratic, like a saucer if you skip it
across the water." The intent of the metaphor was to describe
the motion of the objects not their shape. Arnold stated the
objects "were not circular." A look at the drawing he did for
his report to the Air Force shortly after the incident confirms
the truth of that statement. It is hard to describe in a word or
two; beetle-shaped is the best I can come up with. However you
describe it, one thing is clear. It is not the elegant alien
geometric perfection we have come to know and mystify ourselves
over. [END OF EXTRACT]

See:

http://www.debunker.com/texts/SaucerError.html


On 17 May, 1997, 'The Toronto Star' ran a feature, 'How we were
saved from flying speedboats'.

It specifically attributes, as seemingly did Kenneth Arnold,
that 'flying saucers' were a misnomer resulting from Bill
Bequette's influential account:

The reporters, who'd been alerted to the incident after Arnold
had refueled a couple of hours earlier in Yakima, Washington,
traded furtive glances. They pressed the young man, by all
accounts a community pillar, to describe exactly what he'd seen.

Struggling for an image, Arnold first likened the objects to
speedboats on water, then to the swooping tail of a Chinese
kite. The scribes still weren't getting the picture. Then Arnold
said it: "They flew like a saucer would if you skipped it across
the water."

Bingo. Before running out to file, Bill Bequette scribbled two
words that would effectively launch (so to speak) one of the
more persistent and perplexing pop culture phenomena of the
postwar century. According to the reporter, Arnold had seen
"flying saucers". [END OF EXTRACT]

Courtesy of:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/may/m17-010.shtml


I've reviewed the evidence which credited Bill Bequette with
coining the phrase 'flying saucers' and it seems to clearly
indicate otherwise.

Arnold recounted in 'The Coming of the Saucers':

It was about four o'clock in the afternoon when I landed at
Yakima and went straight to Al Baxter, general manager of Central
Aircraft.

[...]

The high point of my enthusiasm got its top knocked off when one
of the helicopter pilots said, "Ah, it's just a flight of those
guided missiles from Moses Lake."

I proceeded to gather my scattered wits together, got back in my
airplane, and took off for Pendleton, Oregon.

[...]

When I landed at the large airfield at Pendleton there was quite
a group of people to greet me. When I got out of my plane no one
said anything. They just stood around and looked at me. I don't
recall just how the subject came up in those first few minutes
after I landed, but before very long it seemed everybody around
the airfield was listening to the story of my experience.

[...]

To me, that evening, that was that. They were guided missiles,
robotly controlled.

[...]

After talking to the editor of the East Oregonian newspaper, I
was fairly convinced that it was some new government invention
along the line of guided missiles. I could almost tell what this
editor thought when the story went scudding over the news wires--
that the government had taken this way to announce a new
principle of flight.

I could have gone to sleep that night if the reporters, newsmen,
and press agencies of every conceivable description had left me
alone.
[END OF EXTRACT]


Arnold doesn't clarify when he spoke with the newspaper's editor,
however, it was presumably the following day.

In various accounts, Arnold says his destination was Yakima and
never explains why he then flew on to Pendleton.

It could be that he intended to inform the FBI, as revealed in
Bruce Maccabee's review of Arnold's June 1977 lecture at the
'First International UFO Congress':

"Arnold goes on to say he made the 35 minute flight from Yakima
to Pendleton, Oregon. There were people at the airport. His
story had preceded him. While flying he had figured the speed.
He had measured the distance and minimum 39 miles distance in
the time he measured. He got speeds above 1200 miles an hour.
Says he stopped at Pendleton because he thought he should tell
the FBI. He thought they could possibly be from Russia. Of
course, no one had seen circular aircraft. So at Pendleton he
went to the FBI office but it was locked. So he went to the
newspaper office and told the guy there he wanted to see the
FBI. The newspaper man wanted to know what the story was. He had
charts with him and described it to the newspaper man. Before
the evening was over Arnold was besieged and asked all types of
questions".


The Tacoma Public Library has a helpful and lengthy online
feature entitled, 'Unsettling Events', from which the following
is excerpted:

FLYING OBJECTS

Curtis Peebles, "The Age of Confusion begins," Watch the Skies!
A chronicle of the flying saucer myth. Washington and London:
The Smithsonian Institution Press, 1994. p. 8-15.

On the summer day the flying saucer myth began, Kenneth Arnold
was a 32-year-old successful businessman, married with two
daughters. He owned the Great Western Fire Control Supply and
flew his own light aircraft. Kenneth Arnold was, in the
vernacular to come, a reliable witness.

[...]

Arnold did not measure the distance between the two peaks until
he landed at Pendleton, Oregon, later that afternoon. He found
it was forty-seven miles which gave a ground speed of 1,700 mph-
more than twice the speed of sound. No aircraft had yet flown as
fast as the speed of sound. Other pilots suggested the objects
might be guided missiles.

Arnold took his map and calculations to the local FBI office,
but found it closed. He then decided to go to the East Oregonian
newspaper. Arnold talked with Nolan Skiff, the editor of the
'End of the Week' column.

He said the objects 'flew like a saucer would if you skipped it
across the water.- A report was sent out on the Associated Press
wire. It read:

PENDLETON, Ore. June 25 (AP)-Nine bright saucer-like objects
flying at "incredible speed" at 10,000 feet altitude were
reported here today by Kenneth Arnold, Boise, Idaho, [a] pilot
who said he could not hazard a guess as to what they were.

[...]
[END]

The AP dispatch went out in the late morning of June 25.
Newspapers in the northwestern U.S. carried the report that
evening. The following day (June 26), it had spread nationwide.
[END OF EXTRACT]


This was the full Associated Press [AP] 'news cable':

PENDLETON, Ore. - (AP) - Nine bright, saucer-like objects flying
at "incredible" speed at 10,000 feet altitude were reported here
yesterday by Kenneth Arnold, Boise, Idaho, pilot, who said he
could not hazard a guess as to what they were.

Arnold, a United States forest service employee engaged in
searching for a missing plane, said he sighted the mysterious
objects Tuesday at 3 p.m. They were flying between Mount Rainier
and Mount Adams, in Washington state, he said, and appeared to
weave in and out of formation. Arnold said he clocked and
estimated their speed at 1,200 miles an hour.

Inquiry at Yakima brought only blank stares, he said, but he
added he talked with an unidentified man from Ukiah, south of
here, who said he had seen similar objects over the mountains
near Ukiah Tuesday.

"It seems impossible," Arnold said, "but there it is."

In Washington, the war department said it had no information on
the Oregon sky mystery. An army spokesman expressed interest in
any object which would fly at an estimated speed of 1,200 miles
per hour, declaring: "As far as we know, nothing flies that fast
except a V-2 rocket, which travels at about 3,500 miles an hour
- and that's too fast to be seen." [END]


The 'Pendleton (Oregon) East Oregonian' and AP 'wire' clearly
use a common source.

Did the paper rely on that AP newswire, vice-versa, or were they
both simply giving their version of the same story, when Arnold
gave an interview to a group of reporters?

If Arnold ever did say the objects, "flew like a saucer would if
you skipped it across the water", then was it either Nolan Skiff
or an unidentified AP reporter who was responsible for first
describing them as "saucer-like"?

It's unlikely that both Nolan Skiff and an AP reporter both
misconstrued Arnold's simile in the exact same manner.


The 'Pendleton (Oregon) East Oregonian' was first to report
Arnold's sighting, on 25 June and also published the most
detailed account - Bill Bequette's 26 June article.

Was Bequette the author of that inaugural news item?

I have located one source which does indeed credit "Bequette"
with breaking the story, on 25 June.


We can definitively answer some of these questions and set in
context that entire 'flying saucer' media genesis.

Fundamental in being able to do so and illustrating how those
various pieces of the puzzle conceivably fit together, is the
following excerpt - I understand the full article was published
as, 'A moment in history: An interview with Bill Bequette', in
the 'International UFO Reporter', Winter 1998 edition:

AN INTERVIEW WITH BILL BEQUETTE
By Pierre Lagrange

Bill Bequette is one of the "inventors" of the flying saucer
terminology used to describe Kenneth Arnold's sighting of nine
objects near Mt. Rainier in June 1947. As a 28-year-old
journalist, working for the East Oregonian newspaper in
Pendleton, Oregon in 1947, he wrote the first Associated Press
dispatches about Kenneth Arnold's sighting. His AP report
launched a campaign of interest, not only from within the media,
but from the public as well. Bequette's story of the Kenneth
Arnold sighting began the first modern UFO craze.

[...]

Lagrange: How did you meet Kenneth Arnold?

Bequette: My first meeting with Kenneth Arnold? June 25, 1947.
Both Nolan Skiff and I were in the office, which was small, when
Mr. Arnold came in. As I remember, we both talked with him,
listened to his story, told him we didn't have a clue to what he
had seen but would send the story to the Associated Press in
hopes some editor or newspaper reader might be able to explain
the strange objects.

That first meeting probably lasted no more than five minutes.
Nolan jotted down a few notes, then wrote a short story, which I
squeezed into the bottom of page one. Then I punched an even
shorter (as I recall) version into the AP wire. We were only
minutes from "putting the paper to bed" so we didn't have much
time to give him.

Lagrange: Why did you give the story to the Associated Press?

Bequette: The story was given to AP as a matter of course. AP is
a Cooperative and a member paper is obligated to offer its local
stories to AP. In those days, AP member papers in Oregon were
linked together, and to the AP Bureau in Portland, by a Teletype
transmission wire usually referred to as the "C wire." Member
papers "punched" their stories onto the C wire. Other papers
were free to use stories from the C wire and the AP Bureau took
whatever stories the Portland editors though had regional or
national interest and transmitted them on the AP's main, or
trunk, wire. Stories from the C wire sometimes were rewritten
for the trunk wires I punched the original story into the C
wire.

Lagrange: What happened then?

Bequette: When I returned to the office after lunch, the
receptionist's eyes were as big as saucers - the kind we use
under coffee cups! She said newspapers from all around the
country and Canada had been calling. They wanted more details on
the "flying saucers." I spent the next two hours with Mr. Arnold
in his hotel room. From that interview I "wrote a story about 40
column inches long. The story was telephoned to the AP Bureau in
Portland. Next morning, almost every newspaper in the country
published the story on Page 1".

Even after 40 years I feel some embarrassment over the original
UFO story. My embarrassment is because I failed to recognize
what a big story Mr. Arnold brought into the office that day.

Lagrange: Who did coin the phrase, "Flying Saucer?"

Bequette: I don't remember whether or not Arnold used the words
"saucer-shaped craft." I am inclined to credit his version (that
he only spoke of objects moving like a saucer if you skipped it
across the water), knowing the tendency of journalists to
rephrase. I'm sure I didn't coin "Flying Saucers."

[...]

[END OF EXTRACT]


The historical recognition for a first published representation
of Arnold's nine, unfamiliar aerial artefacts as 'saucer-like',
goes to Nolan Skiff who, "then wrote a short story".

However, it was "squeezed into the bottom of page one" by Bill
Bequette and may have been attributed to him in the newspaper.

Perhaps this is why Arnold, staying in Pendleton at the time,
recalls Bequette as misconstruing his remarks and writing about
'flying saucers'.

Skiff is also duly acknowledged for informing the media of
Arnold's 'saucer-like' objects.


Looking into this background, I've noticed something which may
never have been previously perceived.

In more recent years, it's been cited that Arnold did see
saucer-shaped objects as he confirmed they were "like a pie
pan" and "like a big flat disk".

Why would Arnold liken the objects to saucers, or disks, or pie-
pans?

There has to be a reason and I think I've found it.

Firstly, consider how Arnold described, in those early days,
what the objects looked like:

"somewhat bat-shaped"

"They were half-moon shaped, oval in front and convex in the
rear"

"They looked something like a pie plate that was cut in half
with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear...".

All highly consistent.

Now consider his allusion to a 'pie-pan':

"flat like a pie pan and somewhat bat-shaped".

He told Bequette they were "somewhat bat-shaped", preceded by a
simile which indicated how _FLAT_ they were.


There is another crucial example where Arnold is directly quoted
and uses an analogous simile:

Oregon Journal - June 27, 1947

Then I saw them, weaving and ducking in and out as they came out
not more than 500 feet over the plateau. They looked like they
were rocking. I looked for the tails but suddenly realized they
didn't have any. They were half-moon shaped, oval in front and
convex in the rear. I was in a beautiful position to watch them.
I thought they might be jet planes, and I clocked them. Then
when I saw they had no tails and I realized how fast they were
going, I knew they were like nothing I had ever heard of before.
There were no bulges or cowlings; they looked like a big flat
disk. They were larger than the ordinary jet plane but slightly
smaller than a DC4, if you don't count the rear fuselage. [END
OF EXTRACT]

Arnold describes how the objects were "half-moon shaped, oval in
front and convex in the rear" and then illustrates how _FLAT_
they were:

"There were no bulges or cowlings; they looked like a big flat
disk..".

It's the most obvious simile to use if trying to explain how
flat something is - like a disk, or a pie-pan, or perhaps even a
saucer...


There are actually only two instances I can find where Arnold
supposedly said the objects were rounded:

Chicago Daily Tribune - June 26, 1947

The first thing I noticed was a series of flashes in my eyes as
if a mirror was reflecting sunlight at me... I saw the flashes
were coming from a series of objects that were traveling
incredibly fast. They were silvery and shiny and seemed to be
shaped like a pie plate . . . What startled me most at this
point was . . . that I could not find any tails on them. [END OF
EXTRACT]

See:

http://www.project1947.com/fig/1947a.htm

As there are already two glaring errors in this article -
  although Arnold is quoted as saying the objects, "disappeared
behind the peak of Mount Rainier", that should presumably be,
'behind a peak on Mount Rainier', also, he used the dashboard
clock for timing, not his watch - I wouldn't trust it at all.

Furthermore, the quote, "and seemed to be shaped like a pie
plate" appears to be truncated. Did Arnold maybe say, as he did
during the KWRC radio interview, on 26 June,, "something like a
pie plate that was cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle
in the rear...".

If anyone has a copy of the entire 'Chicago Daily Tribune'
article, I would be interested to see it.


The other occasion is a second-hand quote which appeared in a
United Press 'newswire' and was published by at least two
newspapers on 26 June:

"'They were shaped like saucers and were so thin I could barely
see them', he told Jack Whitman, a local businessman".

Is it also merely coincidental that, once more, the words
"flat/thin" are used in conjunction with a 'disk-like' simile.

Did Arnold perhaps actually say, "They were like saucers, so
thin I could barely see them", or something along these lines?


What we can conclude for certain is that, incredibly, in all of
the newspaper and reports, Arnold was rarely asked to
substantiate what the objects looked like.

On three of the four [known] occurrences he is directly quoted,
Arnold consistently confirmed the objects were 'bat-shaped/half-
  moon shaped and convex in the rear'. The remaining quote comes
from a source which is already proven as untrustworthy.

We can furthermore now establish that in the two [known],
reliable, occasions when Arnold did make reference to a 'round'
shape, he did so after having confirmed the objects were not
themselves circular and used an appropriate simile to indicate
how _FLAT_ they were.


There is of course the perfect example of what Arnold attempted
to explain when he said the objects were, "flat like a pie pan"
and "like a big flat disk".

Appended to the report he sent to the Air Force were two
sketches. Firstly, Arnold illustrates how the object looked in
full profile and then shows a "side view" - see:

http://www.project1947.com/fig/ka.htm

It's that _FLAT_ side view which he refers to and it is indeed,
coincidentally, 'saucer-like'.

For some reason, Arnold chose to accompany this statement with a
drawing which is unlike the "somewhat bat-shaped" object he
described and sketched elsewhere.

In 'The Coming of the Saucers', [which should perhaps have been
tiled more accurately], Arnold wrote:

"It was about four o'clock in the afternoon when I landed at
Yakima and went straight to Al Baxter, general manager of
Central Aircraft. I met him in his outer office and rather
breathlessly asked to see him in private. He dropped whatever it
was he was doing and in his private office I related the story
of my observation and drew him pictures of what I had seen".

I understand that it is those same pictures which were
reproduced on the front cover of the 'International UFO
Reporter'
[March/April 1995] - see:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/arnold/sketch_1.jpg

Arnold actually depicts three different shapes, perhaps because
the objects themselves were changing as they "fluttered and
sailed".

That middle portrayal is the exact same as Arnold later settled
on; those at either side are more like his drawing for the Air
Force.

Note that further to the right, he again shows a side-view and
it resembles an upside-down saucer.


A little-known article seems to establish that by sometime in
1948, Arnold was comfortable with those 'crescent' flying disks.
 From the 'Pendleton, Oregon, East Oregonian', July 23, 1977:

'Crescents, Not Saucers'
By the East Oregonian Staff

When Idaho pilot Kenneth Arnold stopped in Pendleton this week,
he was particularly interested in a recent EO article about the
30th anniversary of his flying saucer report. His interest
centered on an illustration that went with the article, which
was written by Joel Davis.

Arnold said ever since he reported his sighting, in late June,
1947, the news media had implied that Arnold saw circular,
saucer-shaped craft. Not so. Arnold said the mysterious craft
were shaped like crescents and appeared smooth except for glass-
  like circles on top.

Arnold said the confusion probably stemmed from the fact that he
told an EO reporter that day 30 years ago that the craft looked
"like saucers skipping across water." Thus was born the phrase
"flying saucers."

Arnold's wife, Doris, was wearing a necklace with a miniature of
the crescent-shaped saucer. The necklace was made in 1948, a
year after Arnold's sighting.
[END OF EXTRACT]


I understand that the first newspaper depiction of Arnold's
objects as 'flying saucers', was believed to be a
creation/interpretation (although inherently self-inventing) of
three newspapers on 27 June: the 'Boise, Idaho Statesman' the
'Portland Oregonian' and the 'Portland Oregon Journal'.

I'm pleased to reveal that I have located an even earlier
newspaper report of Arnold's "Flying Saucers" and this would
duly become a first known use of the terminology.


Step forward the 'Duluth News-Tribune', from Duluth, Minnesota,
which in a 26 June, front page article declared:

"'Flying Saucers,' Up in Air 10,000 Feet, Puzzle Pilot".


This headline is based entirely on a reproduction of that 25
June AP 'newswire'.


A reference I found to the news report, specifically dates it as
being published on page 3, 25 June. A copy of that issue has
been searched, without finding the story.

However, it may first have appeared in a _later_ edition of the
newspaper on 25 June and this is being investigated.


Nevertheless, on 26 June, 1947, 'flying saucers' assuredly
entered the media vocabulary in America, not 27 June, as seems
to have previously been accepted.


In 'Watch the Skies!: A Chronicle of the Flying Saucer Myth',
Curtis Peebles wrote, "The AP dispatch went out in the late
morning of June 25. Newspapers in the northwestern U.S. carried
the report that evening".

I have yet to see firm evidence of any newspaper, other than the
'Pendleton (Oregon) East Oregonian', which reported Arnold's
sighting on 25th June.

Where are all those stated 25 June news reports documented?


One further piece of case evidence is a somewhat crucial
revelation which came from Arnold in later years.

Although Arnold did not disclose this fact at the time, those
nine, "bat-shaped", fluttering and gliding objects, actually
appeared to be living creatures.

As Arnold reportedly confirmed, "They seemed to be alive in the
center, to have the ability to change their density. I know that
sounds strange".

These remarks come from a 'TACOMA, Wash. (AP)' news release
dated June 24, 1977, thirty years to the day after his fateful
sighting.

This could explain, as I suggested, why in Arnold's earliest
sketch he shows the objects shape as changing. Strangely, it
resembles a large bird flapping its wings.

I wonder if this was in any way connected with when they
"fluttered".


Long before this and by at least 1963, Arnold had decided all
'flying saucers' were alive:

'Portland, Oregon, Sunday Oregonian'
  Nov 17, 1963.

_'Saucer' Man Cites Ideas_

"Flying saucers" are living things that dwell in the earth's
atmosphere, becoming visible at certain stages in their life
cycle.

That is the conclusion reached by Kenneth Arnold of Boise,
Idaho, father of the "flying saucers" after 16 years of study
and thought. Arnold, in Portland last week for a family reunion,
said he was still getting 16 to 20 calls and letters a month,
mainly from pilots who reported current "sightings."

Arnold himself has seen saucers on five occasions, the last pair
in 1952 in Northern California. He first saw the flashing
lights, which he believes to be some form of power like nuclear
energy, propelling the mysterious objects in undulating flight.

"One of the objects was solid -- opaque to the eye," Arnold
said. As the other one passed under me I could see the ground
dimly through it.

"From this and numerous other sightings I believe the flying
saucers are living bodies which appear and disappear at
different phases in their cycles of existence," Arnold said.

"We know that water can disappear into the air in the form of
water vapor and then reappear. Some creatures in the sea can
make themselves visible or invisible at will. Why not creatures
in the air?"

[...]

His objects were never shaped like saucers, more like a
headman's axe, he points out.

[...]
[END OF EXTRACT]


When the evidence is fully digested, there are no saucer-shaped
objects at the heart of 'flying saucers'.

Instead, we have an echelon formation of nine intermittently
fluttering and gliding bat/bird-shaped objects that had a
distinctive undulating flight, were evidently living and which
seemed able to "change their density".

That's what those founding 'flying saucers' truly were,
according to the only witness.

I seem to recall publishing evidence which was not a million
light-years away from arriving at that same conclusion.


As a result of feedback received on UFORL from Karl Pflock, I
suggested an alternative perspective - Kenneth Arnold's.

Summarising readily available data from [known] contemporary
newspaper reports, how did they accurately reflect his pivotal
sighting?

Is there evidence that 'flying disks', 'flying pie-pans' and
'flying saucers', were significantly a popularised media
creation and do not have any tangible connection to Kenneth
Arnold at all?

What might Arnold have said about this, if he had been asked a
few days afterwards.

Perhaps something like...:

[BEGIN]
On 25 June, the 'Pendleton, Oregon East Oregonian' ran the first
story of my sighting and also released it on the Associated
Press (AP) newswire.

In both, they reported that I said the objects were saucer-like.

I actually said they flew in a saucer-like fashion, like a
saucer would skip if you threw it across water.

On 26 June, a United Press (UP) newswire was published in the
'Norman, Oklahoma Transcript' and reported I had observed
"saucer-shaped" objects.

They further misquoted that I told Jack Whitman the objects
"were shaped like saucers".

I never claimed they were even saucer-like, let alone saucer-
  shaped.


However, this same day, the 'Duluth News-Tribune' declared in
their front page headlines that I had encountered "Flying
Saucers".


Bill Bequette also wrote a detailed 26 June article in the
'Pendleton, Oregon East Oregonian' and again published how I had
described the objects as "saucer-like".

Thankfully, he did mention I also described them as "somewhat
bat-shaped", the first time this had been correctly reported.

Unfortunately, that was only to happen once more.


Also on 26 June, the 'Portland Oregon Daily Journal' (AP)
headlined that the "Flying Disk Mystery Grows", the 'Salem
Oregon Statesman' (AP) headlined "Disk-Shaped Objects", the
'Yakima (Washington) Daily Republic' (AP) headlined I had
sighted "Saucer-Like Objects", the 'Los Angeles Times' (AP) also
headlined that I had seen "Saucerlike Objects", the 'Seattle
Post-Intelligencer' (AP) headlined "Mystery Disks", which were
reportedly "saucer-like" and in the 'Santa Fe New Mexican' (UP)
headlines it was once more proclaimed the objects I observed
were "Saucer-Shaped".

The 'Santa Fe New Mexican' UP article also repeated the misquote
that I had told Jack Whitman the objects "were shaped like
saucers".

Worse yet, the 'Chicago Daily Tribune' misquoted that I said the
objects flew behind the peak of Mt. Rainier - I said a peak _on_
Mt. Rainier - that I used my watch to time them - I used the
dashboard clock - and that the objects were shaped like a pie-
  plate.


On 27 June, the 'Boise, Idaho Statesman' (UP) headlined that I
was a "Harassed Saucer-Sighter" and implying a direct quote,
wrote, "Kenneth Arnold said today he would like to get on one of
his 1200-mile-an-hour 'flying saucers,' and escape from the
furore".

They also derided "Arnold's saucers".

The Portland Oregon Journal (AP) headlined the "Flying Disk
Case" and twice referred to "flying saucers", the 'East
Oregonian' (AP) headlines confirmed there was a "'Flying Disc'
Mystery" and in a separate article therein, Bill Bequette
maintains I said the objects were "saucer-like".


On 28 June, another Bill Bequette article replaces "saucer-like"
with a headline which refers to "Flying Discs".

'The Oregonian' headlined that the "Flying Saucer Story Grows"
and referred to my "story of the 'flying saucers'" and "saucer-
  like objects" I had reported.


On the two occasions where newspaper stories were based on
direct quotes from interviews actually undertaken with myself
beforehand, I did explain that the objects were "somewhat bat-
  shaped", as reported by Bill Bequette and "half-moon shaped,
oval in front and convex in the rear", as reported by the
'Oregon Journal' (AP) on June 27.

In both interviews I also explained how flat those objects were.

I said to Bill Bequette they were, "flat like a pie pan and
somewhat bat-shaped" and as reported in the Oregon Journal,
"There were no bulges or cowlings; they looked like a big flat
disk".

I did _not_ say the objects were "flat _AND_ shaped like a pie
pan" or "_SHAPED_ like a big flat disk".

Why would I, as in both instances I had already clarified what
the objects did look like.

Is it merely coincidence that the Oregon Journal article, from a
personal interview, seems to be the only one where it was
accurately reported I had observed "crescent-shaped planes or
pilotless missiles".


I also confirmed this in a radio interview with local station
KWRC on 26 June, when I reiterated the objects, "looked
something like a pie plate that was cut in half with a sort of a
convex triangle in the rear".

 >From copies of this more reliable medium, it can be heard I
never once alluded to the objects as disk-shaped or saucer-
shaped.

It has all been an extraordinary misunderstanding and I can only
hope my misconstrued remarks do not lead to any further
misperceptions of "flying saucers".
[END]


How much of what constitutes 'ufology' do we reckon what have
followed, if the media had published these clarifications as a
verbatim article?

And what if, Arnold had, at the time, revealed another
characteristic of those objects, as he did in 1977 - thirty
years too late:

"They seemed to be alive in the center, to have the ability to
change their density. I know that sounds strange".

Would this perhaps, before 'Roswell', have changed the course of
'flying saucer' history?


According to the 'Project-1947' online transcript of Arnold's
interview with Ed Murrow, Arnold stated:

ARNOLD: These objects more or less fluttered like they were, oh,
I'd say, boats on very rough water or very rough air of some
type, and when I described how they flew, I said that they flew
like they take a saucer and throw it across the water. Most of
the newspapers misunderstood and misquoted that too. They said
that I said that they were saucer-like; I said that they flew in
a saucer-like fashion.

MURROW: That was an historic misquote...
[END OF EXTRACT]


I have located and acquired a 'Columbia Broadcasting System'
[CBS] document which is their own transcript of the entire radio
program.

Although the CUFOS published transcript is mainly comparable,
there are some discrepancies and according to CBS, Arnold did
not claim, "I said that they flew like they take a saucer and
throw it across the water", it was, "I said they flew like you
took a saucer and threw it across the water".


The full CBS document contains Murrow's fascinating, lengthy,
'historical snapshot' introduction to the program, beginning,
"We're going to talk about Flying Saucers. We're going to talk
about them from the standpoint of reporters...not as
comedians...or sensationalists".

Curious that the published CUFOS transcript ends:

MURROW: So that's how it all began; that was the trigger action.
Kenneth Arnold's story went scudding over the news wires. Radio
and newspapers picked it up, and then within days the country
broke out into a flood of flying saucer observations."
[END]

In the full version, Murrow then directly adds:

"Many of these reports...a great many of them...obviously could
be discounted".

[He does go on to say, "others... found no easy answer"]


Where did 'flying saucers' come from?

It's _the_ fundamental question for ufology.

As now definitively evidenced, certainly not Kenneth Arnold.


                         O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


_The UFO Research List_

The 'UFO Research List' [UFORL] has over 140 members and is open
to subscription from those who advocate and adopt a consistent,
scientific appraisal of purported 'UFO' related evidence. The
remit encompasses associated topics which may be relevant, such
as 'black projects', or 'ball lightning', etc.

The moderated list's 'home page' is at URL:

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This provides access to the public list postings. For
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                         O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


Editor: James Easton
E-mail: editor@voyagermag.com

(c) James Easton
May, 2002

NOTE: This newsletter is now subject to due copyright and may
not be published without express permission.








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                BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:58:10 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:01:06 -0400
Subject: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?


Source: BBC Suffolk, April 22, 2002,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/features/ufos/richard_daviesufos_trees.shtml

Stig

***

Monday 22nd April, 2002 - 17:00 BST

Rendlesham forest tree with an alien face?

**

Close to the site in Rendlesham forest where the UFO incident is
meant to have happened is a tree which has markings that look
like an alien face. Have a look and decide for yourself.

(Photos)








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                     Eras News: Weekly Briefing 05.27.02

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 03:30:56 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:05:06 -0400
Subject: Eras News: Weekly Briefing 05.27.02


ERAS NEWS
The E-News Service of The Eras Project

http://www.geocities.com/erasproject

May 27, 2002

_____________________________


WEEKLY BRIEFING
5.27.02


EXOBIOLOGY
The Search for Extraterrestrial Life

Ice Reservoirs Found on Mars
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2009000/2009318.stm

Evidence for a Water Phase-Transition at Low Latitudes on the
Surface of Present-Day Mars
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/bib_query?2002AGUSM.P31A..11A

The Cydonian Imperative: Another Face-Like Formation...
http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

Europa Has Right Stuff
http://www.seti.org/general/press_release/europa_05_21_02.html

Europa Has Raw Materials for Life
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99992313

Europa Shows Evidence of Life's Ingredients, But Thick Ice
Frustrates Search
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/life_europa_020522-1.html

The Search for the Scum of the Universe
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/odds_of_et_020521-1.html


QUANTA
Science and Technology

New Impact Crater Measurements Demonstrate That Europa Has A
Thick Ice Shell
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/research/europa/thickice/

China Plans Moon Base for 2010
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99992298

The Tricky Business of Identifying Rocks on Mars
http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/May02/MarsTES.html

Supernova Poised to Go Off Near Earth
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99992311

Pondering the Nature of an Ultracool Object in Orion
http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0205/22coolobject/

Astronomers Find Jupiter-Like Weather on Brown Dwarfs
http://www2.ifa.hawaii.edu/iau211/index.cfm

New Picture of Gravity Defying Loops on Sun
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/coronal_loops_020522.html

Advanced Propulsion Comes Of Age
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/advanced_propulsion_02052=
2-1.html


____________________________


Eras News is the e-news service of The Eras Project, providing
the latest news, reports and updates, including the Weekly
Briefing, sent free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe Eras News
in the subject line to:
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in the subject line to:
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on the leading-edge news, events, ideas and discoveries that
will shape the future of humanity as we enter the 21st Century
and a new Era.

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Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
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=A9 The Eras Project, 2002







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                    Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed?

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 00:42:01 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:10:54 -0400
Subject: Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed?


Dear Errol & especially to Royce Meyers, UFO Watchdog

I have learned some information in regards to the Jonathan Reed
case. Jonathan Reed is not missing. He is living in Mexico with
a new girlfriend who happens to be the daughter of a high
ranking and wealthy official in Mexico. He supposedly is working
with the Mariposa Foundation, a group started to protect the
monarch butterfly although his capacity and compensation is yet
to be investigated.

A reliable source says that he is planning to get married within
the next couple of weeks. Whether he uses  the name Reed is
another question. I also understamd tjat a pole taken on Mexico
radio a couple of weeks ago stated that 80% of the callers
believed in the Reed story. As of last Friday, that percentage
was reduced to somewhere around 30%.

Old ufo stories don't go away, they just get bigger backing.

Sad.........

Kathleen Andersen

MUFON State Section Director
Seattle







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                          More On 'Reed' UFO Fraud

From: "THE WATCHDOG" <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 21:37:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:12:29 -0400
Subject: More On 'Reed' UFO Fraud


If you thought the Reed UFO Fraud was absurd the first time
around, think again - it gets worse. Believe it or not folks, in
spite of the fact that this guy is an absolute fraud and a liar,
he's still trying to carry on this ridiculous hoax. You can
expect an "all new" story from these frauds any day now. Wonder
how long it will take for them to get it straight the second
time around.

http://www.odysseylink.net

Amazing how these guys actually think that this is going to make
everything alright. Rule number one for con artists: If caught
in a lie, make up an even bigger lie that is more outrageous
than the first.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III

UFOWATCHDOG.COM








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                    UFO UpDate: SDI 190 - New Laws Needed

From: Christopher Kelly <tophar@iprimus.com.au>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 16:35:57 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:14:28 -0400
Subject: UFO UpDate: SDI 190 - New Laws Needed


G'day List and readers,

I think it was Mike Woods, (and correct me if I got the wrong
person) but I think it was Mike that commented or brought up the
fact that there are no laws in regards to UFO disclosure. Well
there doesn't seem to be any clearly defined laws that I could
find over the past few days as far as the USA is concerned..

I thought it was very clever to have made this observation, perhaps
laws could be brought into place to ensure the public is told about
UFO's and or ET's visiting here.

It really wasn't something I had thought about before now, because
the US government really doesn't have any oblation to inform the
public about such things. They are in a win, win situation, so now
there needs to be a clear definition about laws concerning UFO
disclosure.










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              Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:02:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:16:50 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Lehmberg


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:49:37 EDT
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:06 +0000
 >>Subject: SDI 190 May 25 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 ><snip>

 >>when we can expect the first UFO story to be printed or aired
 >>along side all the other "old news"?

 >Ever heard of the Roswell, N.M., 'saucer crash'?


... all our encounters in UpDates compel me to want to throw a
imaginary resuscitator on you... a metaphoric oxygen debit seems
apparent and extreme... ufological red cell count excessively
low... paranormal marathon training at altitude or some such...
<with all respect, but gritting my teeth still>...

Ms. White wrote clearly if a bit sarcastically that there is no
"news", there has never been "news", and (if I read correctly
and paraphrase) no suspect mainstream seriously looks for
"news". Additionally, you've no news and _that's_ no news. For
news, read Ms. White; she's outside the oxygen depleted confines
of your ufological box, I think, and is the kind of person
seeing at once that your insentient emperor has no clothes, sits
naked on its stumbling and senseless horse, and is wandering out
of Smalltown where the 'barbarians' wait to eat him.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
  ~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.







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                Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:22:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:23:49 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:49:37 EDT
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:06 +0000
 >>Subject: SDI 190 May 25 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 ><snip>

 >>when we can expect the first UFO story to be printed or aired
 >>along side all the other "old news"?

 >Ever heard of the Roswell, N.M., 'saucer crash'?

Yes, in 1947. That's my point. The media is blatantly using
the "old news" excuse, meaning, the genre is old, to not
print current day stories.

Every SDI show starts off with many current day UFO events, and
then describes many happenings in current day research. Those
represent stories the public would be interested in. The media
people on SDI 190 said, in effect, that these new stories are
not printed or aired, because UFO items are "old news".

Well, so are wars, politics, and every other story type that
floods the media all the time.

So if 'old news-type' is the media excuse, then since they
publish all the other old news-types, old news-type is not a
valid reason for failing to publish current-day UFO events.

I have a job where I am unable to phone in during SDI shows, or
I would have caught the media guests on that real quickly.

My hope is that EBK will pass this comment about this faulty
excuse to those guests. That will bring other false logic
excuses, which we can rebut, until the real barrier will have to
be tendered, or, media reps will have to remain silent, which is
the same as admitting to a cover up.


Eleanor White







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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 8:56:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:30:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:20:28 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:02:45 +0200
 >>Subject: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>Source: Thee Under Ground, May 17, 2002.
 >>Updated on May 20, 2002

 >>http://www.theeunderground.com/ufo/

 >>Some of you will take offence at the occult aspect, but the
 >>author's findings are worth investigating.

 >This is Old Hat. When I first saw the claim of a, presumably
 >new, UFO photo from the FBI I wondered... what could that be?

 >I've had the FBI files for 25 years (about).

 >Anyone familiar with the early history knows of the Rhoads
 >photos which shows something shaped like the heel of a shoe.

 >It is discussed briefly in my book THE UFO/FBI CONNECTION.

 >***

 >>1947 FBI UFO PHOTO!

 >>PROOF THE US GOVERNMENT USED UFO TECHNOLOGY FOR STEALTH BOMBER!

 >**

 >>Byline - D.E. Alexander Freelance Investigative Journalist and
 >>Author

 >>Special Assignment to Thee Under Ground

 >>May 17th 2002

 >**

<snip>

Rhoades' photos appear in the formely Top Secret document
 >'Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in hte U.S.' written in the
 >fall of 1948.

Hi Bruce, and list

Index to the "Analysis" and related documents may be found at:

http://www.project1947.com/fig/48docdex.htm

I do recommend the The UFO FBI Connection by Dr. Maccabee.

I have a number of E-mails from D. E. Alexander. Apparently, he
thought I might be related to CIC later OSI (not FBI) Agent Lynn
Aldrich. No, I am not. Neither am I related to the late Senator
Aldrich, but having the same last name has gotten me some juice
around here.

Alexander has a rather low level of knowledge about the 1947
wave, but wants to lecture me about the significance of the
FBI's comments on the Rhoads' photographs. Alexander contends
that Rhoads' photos are probably of the Roswell crash UFO. Will
someone please tell me who claims with certainty that the
"crash" took place on 7 July 1947? The date of the "crash" is
not determined.

Here is the entry from Richard Hall's UFO Evidence II:

"1. When did something crash? Probably in early July 1947, but
on what day or night? Several different dates have been
suggested, but none has been established beyond a doubt. We do
know that important crash-related events took place at Roswell
Army Air Field on July 8, as contemporary newspaper reports
establish, so the crash happened sometime shortly before that."

The Rhoads photographs and negatives are in a report in the USAF
Project Blue Book files. The photographs were carried around the
world on the wire services at the time and used over and over
again after 1947 without Rhoads getting any benefit. Alfred
Loedding of T-2, Wright Field, the engineer concerned with
"flying discs" before and during Project SIGN was one of the
Army Air Forces investigators who visited Rhoads.

The Sign Historical Group visited Rhoads recently and conducted
an oral history interview with him. Also, Rhoads kindly let us
copy his file on the photographs and his other activities
involving UFOs.

In an E-mail exchange with Alexander, I have found him to accept
without any independent checking a whole series of myths about
the Rhoads photos. Specifically, that one cannot obtain copies
of the front page of the Arizona Republic with the photographs.
The Arizona Republic is one of the newspapers readily available
around the country on microfilm. Many large universities or
public libraries have the microfilms on hand or can easily
obtain them. Most libraries can obtain copies of the AZ Republic
on interlibrary loan. The front page is available there. Rhoads
was also interviewed by a number of newspapers in 1947. He also
tried to claim one of the three $1000 prizes offered for proof
of flying discs in 1947.

Alexander contends that there is a 1952 FBI document that shows
the Rhoads photos are real--whatever "real" means. When
challenged to produce such a document, he did not.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. To put this one on its
head, a lot of ignorance will go a long way in obscuring the
facts. Alexander is ignorant on this subject. There is no crime
in being ignorant, but wanting to stay ignorant; now that is
sinful. In his E-mails to me this person seems to want to
pontificate from his ignorance, rather than learn the facts. I
prefer dealing with people who disagree with me 100%, but are
honest about their methods and research than people who agree
with me but have sloppy research methods and accept every weird
thing that comes along.


Jan Aldrich

Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135








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                 Re: Fate - Beware the Dark Side - Alexander

From: James Alexander <james-m-alexander@rogers.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 13:29:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:33:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Fate - Beware the Dark Side - Alexander


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:01:00 +0200
 >Subject: Fate - Beware the Dark Side

 >Source: Fate Magazine, May 1, 2002,

 >http://www.fatemag.com/article.phtml?id=259

 >Stig

 >***

 >Beware the Dark Side

 >Feature Story FATE Magazine 2002-05-01 00:00:00

 >by Matthew Graeber

<snip>

It would have been far mor credible if Matthew Graeber had
mentioned specific dates, locations and names for most of the
examples in his article. I've been following the phenomenon
informally for sometime and I've heard not one peep about Mr.
Graeber, Uforic, or any of these cases before this. Can anyone
else on the List shed some light on this?

The lack of verifiable detail form this article gives it a
rather dubious distinction of sounding like one of those stories
one often hears from "a friend of a friend who knows someone who
saw something". I'm not saying it isn't factual. I don't know,
yet. But any story with no references that can be investigated
and verified independently seems to be little more than rumour.








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              [canufo] Black Triangle Over Winnipeg Last Night

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 16:15:36 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:35:29 -0400
Subject: [canufo] Black Triangle Over Winnipeg Last Night


I received an email from someone who saw a very unusual object
over Winnipeg last night. He does not want his name (or voice)
to be used publicly, unfortunately, but I believe his UFO
sighting warrants some follow-up.

This is what he observed in the company of two others, just west
of Salter St. in the North End:

================================================

At 11:44, we saw a huge triangle shaped object moving from the
south end of the city then,directly over head, moving Northward.
My guess would be that it was flying at an altitude between 2000
and 3000 feet? It was black and had a very pointy front end like
an elongated triangle with 3 huge slowly pulsating red/orange
circles underneath it's body (kind of the appearance of an
element on hard top electric stove). It seemed to be moving a
little faster then a Jetliner coming in for a landing. It was
enormous probably the size of a football field as I compared it
to a passenger jetliner that made its approach for landing
moving across the north end of the city heading west
approximately 15 minutes later. The black object made no noise
whatsoever and seemed to "glide" across the sky silently. We
also noticed looking directly at the craft that it seemed "hazy"
like it was traveling with a "fog" around it. I think it would
have been quite invisible but the full moon last night made it
visible. I don't know if anyone else saw it all I know is we
were quite shaken up by this sighting.

================================================








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                 Re: Fate - Beware the Dark Side - Gonzalez

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:10:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:37:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Fate - Beware the Dark Side - Gonzalez


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:01:00 +0200
 >Subject: Fate - Beware the Dark Side


 >Source: Fate Magazine, May 1, 2002,

 >http://www.fatemag.com/article.phtml?id=259

 >Stig

***

 >Beware the Dark Side

 >Feature Story FATE Magazine 2002-05-01 00:00:00

 >by Matthew Graeber

<snip>

 >The Cat and the Mouse

 >On November 8, 1973, a young Canadian couple and their three
 >small children were followed by a light-encrusted UFO that
 >chased their light truck for several miles. The couple attempted
 >to elude capture and exited Highway 417 at Russell Road in
 >Ottawa. Mr. and Mrs. Rick Bouchard described the UFO as a disk
 >that wobbled like a duck (a commonly reported UFO flight
 >characteristic) as it flew just above the roadway directly
 >behind their vehicle. Reportedly, the craft even lit up the
 >interior of an overpass that they coursed through in the
 >darkness. The shaken couple described their experience as
 >"harrowing" and something which they and their children would
 >never forget. Subsequent investigative inquiries into the matter
 >by Canadian and American UFO researchers suggest that the entire
 >family may have been abducted-although neither Bouchard, his
 >wife, or their children seemed to have any conscious
 >recollection of seeing the UFO beyond the Russell Road Exit
 >point.

Was the hypothetical abduction confirmed? How much later did the
investigation take place? Any reference?

Luis R. Gonzalez








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                          UFO Videoed Over Andorra

From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:46:14 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:41:51 -0400
Subject: UFO Videoed Over Andorra


From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com >
Date: 5/28/2002 10:20:35 AM Eastern Standard Time
Subj: Andorra: UFO videotaped over Andorra


Dear Readers,

It isn't very often that we get reports from Andorra, a small
European principality nestled in the Pyrenees between France and
Spain, mainly known as a getaway place for skiers.


SOURCE: El Periodic d' Andorra
DATE: May 27, 2002


The Image of a UFO

An amateur cameraman will show the video taken on April 22,
2002. Specialists from different countries are interested in the
phenomenon, which has been classified as an Unidentified Flying
Object.

The luminous object seen over Andorra on the evening of April 22
has generated interest among some specialists who have examined
the material to be presented by an amateur videographer, along
with several still photos.

Many persons have seen the phenomenon and this newsroom has
received reports on the daytime presence of strange lights in
the area formed by Escaldes, la Massana and Ordino. The
explanation routinely given is that the image shows the
planetary alignment. Other explanations given mentioned the
possibility of weather balloons, satellites, or the
International Space Station.

Jesus Serrano, a resident of Escaldes who has spent many hours
clarifying doubts, is the author of the video and a sequence of
still photogrpahs, which have been added to others such as the
one taken by one of EL PERIODIC's photogrpahers. The young man
says that when he first saw the luminous object, he reached for
his camcorder and filmed it for approximately one hour.

Both the trajectory of the object, as well as the change in
color and shape, detract from the possibility of the planetary
alignment [being the correct explanation]. The possibility of it
being a satellite or space station was discarded after checking
the time the sighting occured, as Serrano has explained. Now
research is aimed at verifying if France was conducting any type
of experiment. The ufologists who have become interested in the
case are, among others, Spanish researchers Ramon Navia and
Carlos Gutierrez and Argentinean Miguel Angel Gonzales Pombo.



========================================================
Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic
Ufology. Special Thanks to Gloria Coluchi.



World Of The Strange Newsletter
http://www.worldofthestrange.com












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                     UFO Sighting Santurce, Puerto Rico

From: Louise Lowry SHnSASSY1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 14:48:10 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:42:23 -0400
Subject: UFO Sighting Santurce, Puerto Rico


From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com >
Date: 5/28/2002 10:23:09 AM Eastern Standard Time
Subj: Puerto Rico: UFO Sighting over Santurce

SOURCE: www.ovni.net
DATE: Saturday, 5-23-2002

Case No.:  AT-SJ-PR-5-22-200 Witness: Ana Torres  / 45 / Single
/Computer Programmer Type: CE-1 Date: 5-23-2002 Time: 5:00 a.m.
AST Odors: None Taste: None Sound: None Emotional Effects:
Excitement, joy Physical Effects: None Brief Description of UFO:
"It was shiny and silvery, rounded but appearing to have a tail
on one of its sides, which appeared to be part of the UFO
itself, in other words, a single piece. The tail was surrounded
by lights all around. The UFO was some 4 blocks' distance away
and at a height of 16 storeys, giving the appearance of a mid-
sized car. The tail was half as large as the UFO itself, giving
it the apparent size of a large car. After 2 minutes (approx.)
the UFO suddenly took off in a perpendicular direction at high
speed, heading toward the expressway leading toward the city of
Caguas.

Case Summary:

Ana currently lives on Calle del Parque, Santurce, San Juan
Puerto RIco. On May 23, 2002 at 5:00 a.m., Ana woke up to eat
ice cream -- something she often does--and upon looking through
the window (which faces the southern part of the island) she
noticed a UFO suspended over the Caguas-San Juan expressway. She
was so excited that she decided to go to the terrace, which is
next to the kitchen, to confirm the sighting. The UFO was there
and static. It was shiny and silvery, made of a material similar
to "stainless steel", but with a very strange shape. While
round, it had something resembling a tail on one of its sides,
which formed part of the UFO. The tail had small white lights
all around it. The UFO was some 4 blocks distant from the
witness and at a 16-storey altitude (Ana was on the 8th floor of
a high rise). In plain sight it looked like a mid-sized car, and
the tail was half the size of the UFO itself. Ana has no idea
when the UFO arrived. She only knows that it was there, in a
static position, for some 2 minutes. It gave her enought time to
reach the terrace, which is next to the kitchen, to see it with
greater detail. The UFO suddenly dashed toward the Caguas-San
Juan Expressway. Ana was so "excited and joyful" at having seen
her that she called her father (who lives in the city of Ponce)
her friends Yadira, Maritza and Jos=E9 (who was annoyed at being
woken up so early) to describe the experience. During the day
she phoned me (Lucy Guzman) to retell the experience.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic
Ufology. Special Thanks to Lucy Guzman and Orlando Pla,
www.Ovni.net




World Of The Strange Newsletter
http://www.worldofthestrange.com








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                    Quantum Wormholes Could Carry People

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 05:37:44 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:44:14 -0400
Subject: Quantum Wormholes Could Carry People


Source: New Scientist,

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99992312

Stig

***

Quantum wormholes could carry people

18:10 23 May 02

Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition

**

All around us are tiny doors that lead to the rest of the
Universe. Predicted by Einstein's equations, these quantum
wormholes offer a faster-than-light short cut to the rest of the
cosmos - at least in principle. Now physicists believe they
could open these doors wide enough to allow someone to travel
through.

Quantum wormholes are thought to be much smaller than even
protons and electrons, and until now no one has modelled what
happens when something passes through one. So Sean Hayward at
Ewha Womans University in Korea and Hisa-aki Shinkai at the
Riken Institute of Physical and Chemical Research in Japan
decided to do the sums.

They have found that any matter travelling through adds positive
energy to the wormhole. That unexpectedly collapses it into a
black hole, a supermassive region with a gravitational pull so
strong not even light can escape.

But there's a way to stop any would-be traveller being crushed
into oblivion. And it lies with a strange energy field nicknamed
"ghost radiation". Predicted by quantum theory, ghost radiation
is a negative energy field that dampens normal positive energy.
Similar effects have been shown experimentally to exist.


Delicate balance

Ghost radiation could therefore be used to offset the positive
energy of the travelling matter, the researchers have found. Add
just the right amount and it should be possible to prevent the
wormhole collapsing - a lot more and the wormhole could be
widened just enough for someone to pass through.

It would be a delicate operation, however. Add too much negative
energy, the scientists discovered, and the wormhole will briefly
explode into a new universe that expands at the speed of light,
much as astrophysicists say ours did immediately after the big
bang.

For now, such space travel remains in the realm of thought
experiments. The CERN Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland is
expected to generate one mini-black hole per second, a potential
source of wormholes through which physicists could try to send
quantum-sized particles.

But sending a person would be another thing. To keep the
wormhole open wide enough would take a negative field equivalent
to the energy that would be liberated by converting the mass of
Jupiter.

**

Charles Choi

**

Correspondence about this story should be directed to
onlinenews@newscientist.com


Related Stories:

"Exact uncertainty" brought to quantum world
27 April 2002

Teleporting larger objects becomes real possibility
6 February 2002

Entangled clouds raise hope of teleportation
26 September 2001

For more related stories
search the print edition Archive


Weblinks:

Hayward and Shinkai abstract

Research Institute for Basic Sciences, Ewha Womans University

Computational Science, Riken Institute of Physical and Chemical
Research

Wormholes, Colorado University

**

=A9 Copyright Reed Business Information Ltd.








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             Re: BC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face? -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:49:56 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:45:45 -0400
Subject: Re: BC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face? -


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:58:10 +0200
 >Subject: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

<snip>

 >Close to the site in Rendlesham forest where the UFO incident is
 >meant to have happened is a tree which has markings that look
 >like an alien face. Have a look and decide for yourself.

I've seen it - it could possibly be natural, or even have been
scored out of the bark many years ago by someone, and now looks
quite natural. It's an interesting diversion, not far from Larry
Warren's reported landing site, but I wouldn't place any
significance on it.


Joe









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               Re: New Improved NY 'Aliens?' Picture - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 11:57:40 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:48:36 -0400
Subject: Re: New Improved NY 'Aliens?' Picture - Tonnies


 >From: Dave Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: New Improved NY 'Aliens?' Picture
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 03:22:21 +1000

 >We've been playing around with that still from the possible NY
 >UFO footage. It looks better in green, naturally! :) There's
 >also a comparison with nearly the same angle, 3 frames earlier,
 >which is quite interesting!

 >http://www.cairns.net.au/%7Etims/alienpics.html

The alien with the "burn marks" is, of course, the infamous
'Penthouse' alien (actually a model from the Showtime movie
'Roswell'). I've seen the one with the guy in uniform at Art
Bell's site. I think, but am not absolutely sure, that this is a
model you can purchase through The Sharper Image.

That Egyptian likeness is interesting. Any Egyptologists on the
List?

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)
http://mactonnies.com
Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies








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              Re: Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed? - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 12:02:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:52:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed? - Myers


 >From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 00:42:01 EDT
 >Subject: Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed?

 >Dear Errol & especially to Royce Meyers, UFO Watchdog

 >I have learned some information in regards to the Jonathan Reed
 >case. Jonathan Reed is not missing. He is living in Mexico with
 >a new girlfriend who happens to be the daughter of a high
 >ranking and wealthy official in Mexico. He supposedly is working
 >with the Mariposa Foundation, a group started to protect the
 >monarch butterfly although his capacity and compensation is yet
 >to be investigated.

 >A reliable source says that he is planning to get married within
 >the next couple of weeks. Whether he uses the name Reed is
 >another question. I also understamd tjat a pole taken on Mexico
 >radio a couple of weeks ago stated that 80% of the callers
 >believed in the Reed story. As of last Friday, that percentage
 >was reduced to somewhere around 30%.

 >Old ufo stories don't go away, they just get bigger backing.

 >Sad.........

It is sad considering Rutter is still trying to live out his UFO
lie. The Mariposa Foundation is supposed to be yet another non-
profit UFO organization involving Dan Iaria.

As for Rutter, my sources inform me that he was married sometime
in March. If this is so, then I hope he didn't decide to use his
fake "Reed" name on the marriage papers - I believe it is a
felony to lie on any such paper work in that country.

Glad to hear that the folks down in Mexico are starting to not
support or believe in this fraud. I guess Jaime Maussan and
Daniel Munoz are still supporting it. I haven't heard from Munoz
since my last post here and I doubt he'll be re-appearing here
any time soon.

By the way, I have yet to hear from several folks that I
requested comment from such as the IFUOC, Art Bell (no surprise
there), Pam McCloud and a few others involved in one way of the
other. By the way, Chris Fine - business manager for "Reed" and
"Raith" - I learned that she is the moderator for the BBS at the
P'taah channel website http://www.ptahh.com/home.html and that
Fine also works for the channeler of "P'taah".

Well, I took the liberty of posting to the board asking Fine for
a comment and so did someone else. Those posts have been erased
from the board. Fine told me in November 1998 that she had no
interest in UFOs or aliens and that she introduced "Reed" to
"Raith" - though she was vague on how that happened. She also
told me that she had been neighbors and friends with "Raith" in
Seattle prior to the Reed UFO Fraud.

There is more coming about these frauds and a few others soon.
  The time is right to start cleaning house by getting rid of
Rutter and the rest of the phonies out there. If you've ever
complained about these idiots, well, you now have a chance to
get rid of them.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM






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                    Re: SDI 190 - New Laws Needed - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:30:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:56:20 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - New Laws Needed - White


 >From: Christopher Kelly <tophar@iprimus.com.au>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 16:35:57 +1000
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: SDI 190 - New Laws Needed

 >G'day List and readers,

 >I think it was Mike Woods, (and correct me if I got the wrong
 >person) but I think it was Mike that commented or brought up the
 >fact that there are no laws in regards to UFO disclosure. Well
 >there doesn't seem to be any clearly defined laws that I could
 >find over the past few days as far as the USA is concerned..

 >I thought it was very clever to have made this observation, perhaps
 >laws could be brought into place to ensure the public is told about
 >UFO's and or ET's visiting here.

 >It really wasn't something I had thought about before now, because
 >the US government really doesn't have any oblation to inform the
 >public about such things. They are in a win, win situation, so now
 >there needs to be a clear definition about laws concerning UFO
 >disclosure.

Somebody please suggest this to Steven Bassett.

Eleanor White








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                          EW: Mars Ice Ocean Update

From: Kurt Jonach <ewarrior_electricwarrior_com@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 13:00:22 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:58:23 -0400
Subject: EW: Mars Ice Ocean Update


From: The Electric Warrior (Kurt Jonach)

--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : Web Log May 28, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com

--------------------------------------------------
VAST OCEANS OF WATER ICE ON MARS (UPDATE)
martian enigmas

photo: Mars (Hubble Space Telescope)
http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/MarsHST.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - New data collected by the Mars Odyssey
spacecraft confirms the existence of vast oceans of water ice
just below the surface of Mars. There is enough ice to flood the
Red Planet if it melted.

A news leak by the BBC over the weekend prompted a major science
journal to lift their news embargo, and scientists are now
verifying preliminary findings announced earlier this year. The
journal 'Science' will publish findings on Friday.

Exobiologists have a saying, "Where there's water, there's
life." According to the BBC, "The discovery enhances the belief
that Mars could have had life in the past and perhaps in the
present as well."

Scientists now believe that large quantities of water are frozen
in the layer of loose rock and dust on the surface. There is
enough ice to indicate that ancient oceans, and a warmer
climate, might have supported life.

Extraterrestrial life has never been verified.

--------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

28-May-02
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=5&u=/nm/20020528/
ts_nm/space_mars_dc_2

Water, Water Everywhere on Mars, Scientists Find

(Reuters/Yahoo) - "It turns out it is really quite a bit more
ice than I think most people ever really expected," William
Boynton of the University of Arizona.


28-May-02
Mars ice could flood planet

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2013000/2013114.stm

(BBC News) - Scientists have revealed the full technical details
of their discovery of vast reservoirs of ice beneath the Martian
surface. So much ice has been found in the polar regions that if
it were to melt it would deluge the planet... Now, scientists
know where all this water has gone - it is frozen deep
underground.


28-May-02
Water Ice Discovery on Mars May Be 'Tip of an Iceberg'

http://space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_ice_020528.html

(Space.com) - The researchers report they have extensive data
confirming a layer of hydrogen across much of the planet within
3 feet (1 meter) the dusty surface of both hemispheres -- well
within reach of robots or humans who might venture to Mars...
Biologists say liquid water is essential for life as we know it.

--------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
May 28, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web
links. The content reproduced here is for informational purposes
only. All copyrights Acknowledged.

eWarrior@electricwarrior.com








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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:14:00 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:00:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:29:42 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:02:27 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 20:13:27 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 ><snip>

 >>>In the end, the answer to the question, without spin, without
 >>>personal agenda is a simple, "No."

 >>Thanks Kevin,

 >>Those drawings [the concepts] are well in advance of that time.
 >>I'ts really only now that we are seeing the plan form and flat-
 >>plate drag reduction shown in those drawings with the possible
 >>exception of the SR-71's blended fuselage to wing design.
 >
 >>When did these docs surface?
 >
 >Don, List -

 >I first talked to Kaufmann in 1989, after learning about him
 >from Walter Haut. In early 1989 he showed me copies of various
 >sketches he had made (and say what you will about the man, he
 >was, to my untrained eye, quite an artist) that showed some of
 >these things that would appear later. So, the earliest that I
 >saw them was 1989, prior to one of the articles in Mechanics
 >Illustrated but certainly after we all had had good looks at the
 >SR-71.

 >To answer the question, the documents surfaced in the early part
 >of 1989 and he offered more later, in 1990 and then in 1997, he
 >showed me a letter. But the illustrations showing the craft I
 >first saw in 1989.


Hello Kevin,

Thanks for answering some questions regarding Frank Kaufman.  I
would love to red your Fate story. I looked at their website and
it is not listed yet. I am in Germany and don't really have
other access to the magazine besides the websites. When I was
young I used to read Fate and True decades ago but in later life
I have found Fate to be more speculative than other research
(including yours) of interest to me.

In the May issue Jim Keith (who I have always considered
somewhat speculative) reurrects the old Roswell B29 crash or
dummy bomb drop (it is certainly not listed in the roster of
nuclear accidents, such as the B52 bomb drops) and he of course
attributes it to unnamed sources.

Kevin, I long ago dismissed Kaufman due to research that was
reported by you and others. I still have some questions and may
have forgotten some things about his case. I will ask just a few
here. I don't know if it is legally possible to post your Fate
story here but I think at least an outline on this list would be
a valuable service. It may help you not get bombarded with
questions.

To bomb you with a few:

As you have been asked, did Lind Howe somehow have access to the
original letter and his report? Or was her "yellowing pages" an
elaboration of hers?

In his letter report were some of those abbreviations checked
ala the MJ-12 alleged documents?

Has anyone put in a FOIA request to see if that letter exists,
whether still classified or not.

Has anyone checked the National Archives?

Do you think because he can only produce photocopies that he
invented this to get some misplaced notoriety?

Was his claimed intelligence position real? I vaguely remember
that he was a Sgt. and that his supposedly cover position was
not in intelligence?


Thanks Kevin,

Josh








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              Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:42:39 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:02:42 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:58:10 +0200
 >Subject: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

 >Source: BBC Suffolk, April 22, 2002,

 >http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/features/ufos/richard_daviesufos_trees.shtml

 >Stig

 >***

 >Monday 22nd April, 2002 - 17:00 BST

 >Rendlesham forest tree with an alien face?

 >**

 >Close to the site in Rendlesham forest where the UFO incident is
 >meant to have happened is a tree which has markings that look
 >like an alien face. Have a look and decide for yourself.

 >(Photos)

Stig,

Sorry, maybe I need to get my eyes checked. I don't see an alien
face in those tree markings. It sort of reminds me of looking at
cloud figures or trying to turn irregularities on the Roswell
Debris sticks into alien symbols.

Josh










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                 Re: Fate - Beware the Dark Side - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:23:00 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:03:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Fate - Beware the Dark Side - Balaskas


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:01:00 +0200
 >Subject: Fate - Beware the Dark Side

<snip>

 >Beware the Dark Side

 >Feature Story FATE Magazine 2002-05-01 00:00:00

 >by Matthew Graeber

<snip>

 >The Cat and the Mouse

 >On November 8, 1973, a young Canadian couple and their three
 >small children were followed by a light-encrusted UFO that
 >chased their light truck for several miles. The couple attempted
 >to elude capture and exited Highway 417 at Russell Road in
 >Ottawa. Mr. and Mrs. Rick Bouchard described the UFO as a disk
 >that wobbled like a duck (a commonly reported UFO flight
 >characteristic) as it flew just above the roadway directly
 >behind their vehicle. Reportedly, the craft even lit up the
 >interior of an overpass that they coursed through in the
 >darkness. The shaken couple described their experience as
 >=93harrowing=94 and something which they and their children would
 >never forget. Subsequent investigative inquiries into the matter
 >by Canadian and American UFO researchers suggest that the entire
 >family may have been abducted=97although neither Bouchard, his
 >wife, or their children seemed to have any conscious
 >recollection of seeing the UFO beyond the Russell Road Exit
 >point.

<snip>

Hi everyone!

I recall reading about this UFO incident but I was unaware that
further investigations suggested that the family was also
abducted.

Does anyone know who the Canadian and American UFO researchers
were that came to this conclusion or where their published work
on this case may be found? There was a wave of UFO sightings
throughout North America that year which included many such
close encounters with UFOs and even some UFO entity cases. I
know of a few unpublished accounts of contacts with aliens in
the Ottawa area which I would like to compare with the 1973
Bouchard case mentioned above.


Nick Balaskas








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               Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:40:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:16:02 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Bowden


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:22:34 +0000
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:49:37 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:06 +0000
 >>>Subject: SDI 190 May 25 'Media Not Covering-Up'
 >
 >><snip>

 >>>when we can expect the first UFO story to be printed or aired
 >>>along side all the other "old news"?

 >>Ever heard of the Roswell, N.M., 'saucer crash'?

 >Yes, in 1947. That's my point. The media is blatantly using
 >the "old news" excuse, meaning, the genre is old, to not
 >print current day stories.

 >Every SDI show starts off with many current day UFO events, and
 >then describes many happenings in current day research. Those
 >represent stories the public would be interested in. The media
 >people on SDI 190 said, in effect, that these new stories are
 >not printed or aired, because UFO items are "old news".

 >Well, so are wars, politics, and every other story type that
 >floods the media all the time.

 >So if 'old news-type' is the media excuse, then since they
 >publish all the other old news-types, old news-type is not a
 >valid reason for failing to publish current-day UFO events.
 >
 >I have a job where I am unable to phone in during SDI shows, or
 >I would have caught the media guests on that real quickly.

 >My hope is that EBK will pass this comment about this faulty
 >excuse to those guests. That will bring other false logic
 >excuses, which we can rebut, until the real barrier will have to
 >be tendered, or, media reps will have to remain silent, which is
 >the same as admitting to a cover up.

I can understand your beef on this, but here's a thought, surely
in the light of 9/11 a UFO seen over New York or Washington for
instance would be of some media interest, judging by the
heightened security.

UFO items are not old news, just not happening news.

The events of 9/11 were witnessed by hundreds on the ground and
millions around the World... happening. A UFO event is witnessed
by a handful of people at best, no-ones really sure what it
was... not happening. It becomes an end of news segment.

The media are simply playing to the publics interest.

For example:

I have had it up to here (pointing to my forehead) about David
Beckhams foot injury and whether he can play for England in the
World cup.

This (believe it or not) was the top story, above everything
else that's been going on in the World.

Blair could have given a moonie outside 10 Downing Street, it
still would have played second fiddle to Beckhams foot. What
chance would UFO news have.

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Keep plugging away.


All the best,

Dave Bowden.







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             Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:02:29 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:18:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden


 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:03:04 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1

 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1
 >>Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 13:42:11 +0100

 >Good Morning Dave

 >>This is reminiscent of what happened to the makers of the movie
 >>Independence Day.

 >>Basically they said we like the script and we'll help with any
 >>technical info but leave out all references to Area 51.

 >>Since Area 51 was a major part of the plot it stayed in.

 >>Possibly they want no reference to Area 51 containing aliens or
 >>flying saucers simply because they don't wish to further the
 >>myth.

Good morning to you Sean,

 >I could kinda agree. Or it could be that they have had a sense
 >of humour by-pass?

 >I think that it still has something to do with the fact that it
 >is still not marked on any maps, and they still wish to stay low
 >key. And a for aliens, are we ever likely to truly find out?

Not marked on any maps is indeed a fact, but this could be
something to do with them being a top secret base!

The most un-secret top secret base in the World mind you.

Makes me wonder where the real one's are, Area 51 always looks
to me like a decoy.

As for aliens? what if it turned out there are no aliens??


All the best,

Dave Bowden







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                 Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 -

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:03:19 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:20:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 -


 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:03:04 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1

<snip>

 >I think that it still has something to do with the fact that it
 >is still not marked on any maps, and they still wish to stay low
 >key. And a for aliens, are we ever likely to truly find out?

<snip>

Hi Sean, Dave, everyone!

Last night I viewed one of three UFO videos which I purchased at
a local flea market for $2 each. The video's title was 'UFO: The
Hidden Truth - Dreamland (Area 51) Part 2' and it was made by
Transmedia and Dandelion for Sky Television (1996). Timothy
Good, Noel Cronin and Bruce Burgess are all named as producers.

There were many things I found interesting in this video but one
particular item I realised may provide an answer to Sean's
question above. The video interviews many famous and infamous
UFO personalities except for one who is backlit and is
identified only as "Area 51 Engineer 1966-1979". According to
this mystery engineer, who has known about UFOs and aliens since
the 50s and 60s, he as been given permission to turn over secret
papers to us in 2002 about Area 51 and its UFO/alien connection.
If true, we can expect an announcement any day now but I
wouldn't hold my breath, especially since 'Cosmic Journey',
promoted as an officially approved exhibit for the reality and
extraterrestrial origin of UFOs which was to include actual UFO
hardware and alien bodies, was cancelled at the last moment.

Maybe if one of us (how about Timothy Good?) can contacted this
engineer, he just may keep his promise and we may finally have
our proof.

If anyone has seen this video, including Part 1 which contains a
scene where a private plane is chartered by the people who made
this video and is flown to Area 51 (yes, it is intercepted by
fighter jets, but I won't say more), I would be very interested
to know your comments.


Nick Balaskas








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              Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:49:56 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:42:39 +0200
 >Subject: Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

<snip>

 >Sorry, maybe I need to get my eyes checked. I don't see an alien
 >face in those tree markings. It sort of reminds me of looking at
 >cloud figures or trying to turn irregularities on the Roswell
 >Debris sticks into alien symbols.

Good analogy. I'm reminded on the many Martian surface
formations readers of my Mars site send my way. If this "alien
face" was on Mars, it would fall into the "Happy Face Crater"
trash heap, I'm afraid.

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)
http://mactonnies.com
Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies










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              Re: Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed? - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:28:34 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed? - Gates


 >From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 00:42:01 EDT
 >Subject: Where In The World Is Jonathan Reed?

 >Dear Errol & especially to Royce Meyers, UFO Watchdog

 >I have learned some information in regards to the Jonathan Reed
 >case. Jonathan Reed is not missing. He is living in Mexico with
 >a new girlfriend who happens to be the daughter of a high
 >ranking and wealthy official in Mexico. He supposedly is working
 >with the Mariposa Foundation, a group started to protect the
 >monarch butterfly although his capacity and compensation is yet
 >to be investigated.

One wonders if he will now "become" an expert about the monarch
butterfly and get on the environmental lecture circuit babbling
about the butterfly(s) etc etc.


Cheers,

Robert








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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:59:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:14:00 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

<snip>

 >Kevin, I long ago dismissed Kaufman due to research that was
 >reported by you and others. I still have some questions and may
 >have forgotten some things about his case. I will ask just a few
 >here. I don't know if it is legally possible to post your Fate
 >story here but I think at least an outline on this List would be
 >a valuable service. It may help you not get bombarded with
 >questions.

<snip>

Karl Pflock interviewed Kaufman (and saw some of his enigmatic
papers) and the results are in his book. Pflock describes a
weird oragami aircraft with cryptic messages on it among
Kaufman's collection. (Pflock thinks Kaufman is a complete
fake.)

I get the impression Kaufman might have indeed heard or seen
some interesting things in '47, but that he "elaborated"
significantly in his later years.

Again, we need to subject his papers to forensic analysis, if
possible. And if not possible, why not?


=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)
http://mactonnies.com
Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies










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                Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:31:21 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:35:07 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:02:38 -0500
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:49:37 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:06 +0000
 >>>Subject: SDI 190 May 25 'Media Not Covering-Up'

   ><snip>

 >>>when we can expect the first UFO story to be printed or aired
 >>>along side all the other "old news"?

 >>Ever heard of the Roswell, N.M., 'saucer crash'?

<snip>

 >Ms. White wrote clearly if a bit sarcastically that there is no
 >"news", there has never been "news", and (if I read correctly
 >and paraphrase) no suspect mainstream seriously looks for
 >"news". Additionally, you've no news and _that's_ no news. For
 >news, read Ms. White; she's outside the oxygen depleted confines
 >of your ufological box, I think, and is the kind of person
 >seeing at once that your insentient emperor has no clothes, sits
 >naked on its stumbling and senseless horse, and is wandering out
 >of Smalltown where the 'barbarians' wait to eat him.

Hi Al,

Glad that you got the point.

Which was.... After the Roswell fiasco maybe nobody in the real
world wants to waste any more time on old flying or crashed
saucer tales?

Clear skies,

Bob Young

When it comes to flying saucers, it is still January, 1950

--Curtis Peebles








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                          Secrecy News -- 05/28/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:04:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:40:01 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/28/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 48
May 28, 2002


**      REGULATING BIOLOGICAL AGENTS AND TOXINS
**      SECRECY OR SECURITY
**      USAF REPORTS ON PALOMARES, THULE ACCIDENTS
**      ROWLEY MEMO: CLASSIFIED, BUT NOT SECRET


REGULATING BIOLOGICAL AGENTS AND TOXINS

In the latest move to impose national security restrictions on
scientific research, a congressional conference committee last
week approved new measures to regulate biological agents and
toxins that pose "a severe threat to public health and safety."

The Bioterrorism Preparedness Act (H.R. 3448) mandates a
national database for registration of all persons or
institutions that possess, use or transfer certain highly
dangerous bio-agents and toxins.  It directs that new safeguards
be established to prevent access to such materials by
unauthorized persons.  And it exempts information about
locations and users of the materials from disclosure under the
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).

See excerpts from the May 21 conference report (H.Rpt. 107-481)
on the bill here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/hrpt107-481.html

The bill does not impose any restrictions on scientific
publication. Nor does it prevent official disclosures of
information outside of the context of the FOIA.

"None of this looks very surprising or controversial except
maybe to people who had hoped to use FOIA to embarrass
institutions into not doing research with select agents," said
one executive branch scientist.

Questionably, however, the bill would also exempt from public
disclosure information about the accidental release, loss or
theft of a proscribed biological agent or toxin.


SECRECY OR SECURITY

Military censorship in Israel that is intended to conceal
vulnerabilities may instead perpetuate them, writes journalist
Aviv Lavie in the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz.

The military censor recently prevented publication of a story
about the hazards of the Pi Glilot fuel depot near Tel Aviv on
grounds that "we don't have to give any ideas to the
terrorists."

This had the effect of blocking a planned media campaign by the
mayor of Tel Aviv that was supposed to promote corrective action
at the fuel depot.  But terrorists attacked the site anyway last
week.

"It appears to have been a classic example in which narrow
security considerations can cause harm -- including life-
endangering damage -- when the short term is regarded as more
important than the long term," writes Lavie.

"A public debate, which forces the security services into
energetic action, can sometimes prevent disaster better than
many secrets that get shelved in the offices of the censor."

An identical argument for security through disclosure is
increasingly made by environmentalists and others opposed to the
post-September 11 rush to remove official information from
public access in the U.S.

See "Sensing the Censor" from the May 27 Ha'aretz here:

http://news.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=168734


USAF REPORTS ON PALOMARES, THULE ACCIDENTS

The Air Force Medical Service last week released two reports on
the health consequences of nuclear weapons accidents in
Palomares, Spain in 1966 and in Thule, Greenland in 1968.

The reports reflect Air Force efforts to collect radiation
exposure data and perform dose reconstruction analyses.  They
generally conclude that the health consequences from the two
accidents were not significant. See:

http://airforcemedicine.afms.mil/latestnews/palomares.htm


ROWLEY MEMO: CLASSIFIED, BUT NOT SECRET

The explosive memo from FBI Special Agent Colleen M. Rowley to
FBI Director Mueller lambasting the Bureau's pre- and post-
September 11 performance was obtained by Time Magazine and
posted on its web site in edited form last weekend.  See:

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020603/memo.html

Notwithstanding the urgent public importance of the memo and its
contents, the document has been classified by the FBI.

The state of the national security classification system is such
that whoever classified the Rowley memo did nothing wrong.  But
whoever provided it to Time Magazine violated his or her
classified information non-disclosure agreement, and possibly
one or more regulations and laws. It may be that a leak
investigation is underway even now.


******************************
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
majordomo@lists.fas.org with this command in the body of the
message: subscribe secrecy_news


OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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              Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Weds, 29 May 2002 08:54:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:42:09 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:42:39 +0200
 >Subject: Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?


Hello, all.

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:58:10 +0200
 >>Subject: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

 >>Source: BBC Suffolk, April 22, 2002,

 >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/features/ufos/richard_daviesufos_trees.shtml

 >>Stig

 >>***

 >>Monday 22nd April, 2002 - 17:00 BST

 >>Rendlesham forest tree with an alien face?

<snip>

 >>like an alien face. Have a look and decide for yourself.

 >>(Photos)

Looks like a Cat (Caterplliar Bulldozer) blade ding on the tree.
(done a few myself years ago). Just a nick on the side below the
cambium layer (vascular tissue) and the tree does some weird
stuff. I remember one that was on the mark of an old rope burn
from a covered wagon train (1850's) on an old Pondersosa Pine
that looked like a perfectly human head. Sculped, if you will.
Tree burned in 1972. This was in the Blue Mountains of Oregon.

 >Stig,

 >Sorry, maybe I need to get my eyes checked. I don't see an alien
 >face in those tree markings. It sort of reminds me of looking at
 >cloud figures or trying to turn irregularities on the Roswell
 >Debris sticks into alien symbols.

 >Josh

Yes, I agree Josh, I've gotten some decent Motherships out of
Cascade/Sierra Lenticulars, however they are still lenticular
clouds, and a Cat ding is a Cat ding, (Ok, Fiat/David Brown/
Leyland/ding). Say, wasn't Rendelsham logged recently?


GT McCoy










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                Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:47:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:44:47 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:22:34 +0000
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:49:37 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:06 +0000
 >>>Subject: SDI 190 May 25 'Media Not Covering-Up'

<snip>

 >>>when we can expect the first UFO story to be printed or aired
 >>>along side all the other "old news"?

 >>Ever heard of the Roswell, N.M., 'saucer crash'?

<snip>

 >The media is blatantly using
 >the "old news" excuse, meaning, the genre is old, to not
 >print current day stories.

Eleanor:

How about the January 2000 police sightings in Michigan and the
lights moving with the wind in northern N.J. last year? They
received lots of publicity. But not every night light tale or
abduction regurgitation deserves to get in the news.

Then there was last year's Greer media circus. It, too, recieved
more publicity that it deserved. Then it died because of lack of
credibility.

The Roswell 50th Anniversary Year was the peak in public and
media interest. Since then the subject has flopped.

And probably with good reason. What has happened during the last
five years to merit national media attention? Greer only
provided more evidence for the mainstream media suspicion that
there's no news because there's no real new news, just the same
old tire saucer stories.

Clear skies,

Bob Young

When it comes to flying saucers, it is still January, 1950
               --Curtis Peebles







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                    Re: UFO Videoed Over Andorra - Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:02:44 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:47:54 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Videoed Over Andorra - Olmos



 >From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com >
 >Date: 5/28/2002 10:20:35 AM Eastern Standard Time
 >Subj: Andorra: UFO videotaped over Andorra

 >Dear Readers,

 >It isn't very often that we get reports from Andorra, a small
 >European principality nestled in the Pyrenees between France and
 >Spain, mainly known as a getaway place for skiers.

Hi, List,

The object captured on film and video has been confirmed to be a
CNES (French NASA) weather balloon launched from the Aire-sur-
Adour base in Les Landes.

Typical shape, multiple-witness case, long duration, according
to one of the Randles laws, it should be identifiable.


Best regards from Spain

Vicente-Juan

_______________________________________________________________
Copa del Mundo de la FIFA 2002
Disfruta en v=EDdeo de los mejores momentos desde tu ordenador.
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/es/








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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:47:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:54:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 8:56:17 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:20:28 -0400
 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

 >>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:02:45 +0200
 >>>Subject: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>>Source: Thee Under Ground, May 17, 2002.
 >>>Updated on May 20, 2002

 >>>http://www.theeunderground.com/ufo/

 >>>Some of you will take offence at the occult aspect, but the
 >>>author's findings are worth investigating.

 >>This is Old Hat. When I first saw the claim of a, presumably
 >>new, UFO photo from the FBI I wondered... what could that be?

 >>I've had the FBI files for 25 years (about).

 >>Anyone familiar with the early history knows of the Rhoads
 >>photos which shows something shaped like the heel of a shoe.

 >>It is discussed briefly in my book THE UFO/FBI CONNECTION.

 >***

<snip>

 >>Rhoades' photos appear in the formely Top Secret document
 >>'Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in hte U.S.' written in the
 >>fall of 1948.

 >Hi Bruce, and list

 >Index to the "Analysis" and related documents may be found at:

 >http://www.project1947.com/fig/48docdex.htm

 >I do recommend the The UFO FBI Connection by Dr. Maccabee.

Thanks! And thanks for backing me up on this. I suppose
Alexander's discussion was read by people on other email lists,
people not likely to read a UFO list (or pay attention to UFO
discussions/analysis). So, if his article accomplished anything,
it might be to interest some non-ufogists in checking up on that
document. However, he certainly filled their bandwidth with
partial information and outright misinformation (like the FBI
was withholding the document!).

<snip>

 >The Rhoads photographs and negatives are in a report in the USAF
 >Project Blue Book files. The photographs were carried around the
 >world on the wire services at the time and used over and over
 >again after 1947 without Rhoads getting any benefit. Alfred
 >Loedding of T-2, Wright Field, the engineer concerned with
">flying discs" before and during Project SIGN was one of the
A>rmy Air Forces investigators who visited Rhoads.

I presume that Rhoads repeated his story that went something
like this: a week or so after the publication the FBI asked to
borrow the negatives (to give to the AF) and when he asked for
their return after several months(?) he was told "sorry.. ."

Those negatives are probably still in some AF file somewhere.

Excellent prints (cropped) are in the (black cover) original
version of the "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents....."
mentioned above.

 >The Sign Historical Group visited Rhoads recently and conducted
 >an oral history interview with him. Also, Rhoads kindly let us
 >copy his file on the photographs and his other activities
 >involving UFOs.

Very interesting.







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             Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:53:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden


 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:03:19 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1

Hi Nick,

 >Last night I viewed one of three UFO videos which I purchased at
 >a local flea market for $2 each. The video's title was 'UFO: The
 >Hidden Truth - Dreamland (Area 51) Part 2' and it was made by
 >Transmedia and Dandelion for Sky Television (1996). Timothy
 >Good, Noel Cronin and Bruce Burgess are all named as producers.

 >If anyone has seen this video, including Part 1 which contains a
 >scene where a private plane is chartered by the people who made
 >this video and is flown to Area 51 (yes, it is intercepted by
 >fighter jets, but I won't say more), I would be very interested
 >to know your comments.

I recorded this two-part documentary when it was first aired on
Sky some years ago.

I have to admit, Sky go all out to try to get to the bottom of
things and they seem to treat the UFO subject with a certain
amount of respect.

Thanks for reminding me, I must watch it all again.

Off the top of my head I do recall them flying their plane into
the restricted airspace, and being buzzed by an F-16 (and they
got it on camera as well). They even spoke to the pilot on the
radio.

They tried to gain access to the airport where the Janet flights
come and go but the security guys got a bit stroppy with them.

There's more but basically they must have been a real pain,
that's Sky for you.

I found it interesting to see how the psychological 'scarecrows'
worked so well on the locals.

You could plainly see how they were physically unable to cross
the invisible line set out by the signs on the dirt track
leading to the base.

All clever stuff,

Dave Bowden








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                      Declassified Documents Go Online

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 07:11:07 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:03:31 -0400
Subject: Declassified Documents Go Online


For what this may be worth:

http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/176777.html








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                     Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 07:55:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:06:16 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White


 >From: Michael Woods <mike.woods@sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Media Not Covering Up
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:29:58 -0400

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:22:34 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:49:37 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >For the life of me I don't recall _any_ of us saying the media
 >doesn't cover UFO stories because they are "Old News". From my
 >perspective, I pointed out for TV we need video... without
 >pictures it's radio...for the most part if we don't have
 >pictures or video, there is no story.

I wasn't taking notes, Michael, apologies. Someone did
say that, and furthermore, that isn't the first media person
who has used that exact excuse that I've heard in the past
month.

By the way, there is another obvious disinformational excuse
making the rounds: "Government doesn't know any more than we
do." That is harder to rebut because of course, we don't
actually know how much info is in government files. I don't have
a really hard-hitting response, but we can say that government
knows at the very least as much as the civilian community knows,
and that alone is enough to show that UFOs are being flown by
some intelligent entity.

 >Further, as I pointed out,
 >in the U.S. it isn't a crime for the government to cover-up its
 >ufo knowledge...

That is a _terrific_ observation. I hope Steven G. Bassett will
make the submission of a law requiring disclosure part of his
campaign.

 >and while the story in and of itself is
 >obviously important, without the implication of government
 >scandal its hard to get any type of news executive to commit the
 >necessary resources.

 >With the exception of operations like the BBC and CBC, most
 >broadcasters are in business and must be profitable. Without a
 >sensation, those execs won't believe viewers will tune in... and
 >yes, I think proof of the existence of Aliens would be pretty
 >sensational... but of course, no such proof exists. Perhaps it
 >could be dug out with years of effort, legal challenges and a
 >big pile of dough... but no business could put up that kind of
 >effort with such little promise of return.

Besides the sensational items, you have "departments" that
report, perhaps not on every show, but off and on. Things like
"human interest" items, good samaritan incidents, science
oddities like Dan Rather's broadcast of a frog being levitated
in a strong magnetic field.

Even a 30-second sound bite of, say, Steven Bassett's
campaign progress, for example, would hardly empty the
budget and would be welcome by the high percentage of
viewers who believe government his hiding UFO information.

New crop circle formations, with screening to ensure only those
which were observed forming, or were too complex to be done
overnight, would only take up ten or 15 seconds of a news
broadcast.

Having a pro-UFO person presenting the facts of a sighting with
physical traces, and NOT following with a debunker who has the
last and most long-lasting impression in the mind of the viewer,
would be a very welcome "first" for TV.

I suspect more than one executive has thought to himself,
"Aah... if people want to see that stuff they can go to Art
Bell's web site." That's another hurdle.

 >Before we climb too far up our high horse, let's remember that
 >Canadians spend a billion dollars a year on the Canadian
 >Broadcasting Corporation but the latest... and to my knowledge,
 >the only UFO/Paranormal news series to air nationally was
 >produced by Global... a fact also mentioned on SDI.

 >Does this mean the media is doing a good or even adequate job
 >covering UFOs? Probably not for the true believers, but
 >remember, for news operations to run a story, we've almost got
 >to have good enough evidence to stand up in court and the more
 >controversial the topic, the truer this is.

To find the truth, and an important part of that is to get at the
information in government files, I believe it is first necessary to
motivate the public to start asking their MPs questions. To have
that happen, the public's interest must be kindled and the flames
kept alive by the most interesting stories which meet the approval
of researchers like EBK, John Velez, Victor Viggiani, Stanton
Friedman's class as probably valid.

To cover the chance an invalid story could make it to air, you
use a brief disclaimer phrase.

And Nick Balaskas' work in Ottawa archives clearly shows there
is a gold mine awaiting there - possibly of better quality than
that in the U.S.

I'm not sure how you would take UFO incidents to court. Would
you accuse the aliens in absentia of kidnapping? Would you sue
the government to disclose information you haven't seen and don't
know is there?

I'm suggesting that motivating the public to insist on disclosure is
the surest course to success, and UFO and crop circle stories is
one of the best ways to do that. It's like "attacking from the
rear."

By the way, and I'm sure you appreciate this, it is important to
_not_ include other paranormal events within this occasional
news "department". That would allow debunkers to distract the
public with chatter about matters unrelated to UFO disclosure.

 >Where is the court-quality evidence for UFOs? I personally
 >believe in their reality and use every opportunity to get UFO
 >stories on the air at City tv, in Toronto... but when the only
 >'evidence' is a witness of limited credibility without any form
 >of supporting materials, like independent witnesses or again,
 >video, than no matter how sincere the person might be, they're
 >still in the same league as people who claim to see and speak to
 >God on regular basis. We don't doubt they are sincere, it might
 >even be true but in general most media won't touch it.

OK - run it by EBK and others first, and insist on only stories
with two or more witnesses.

And a clip of a serious speech or seminar hosted by someone like
Stanton Friedman can be used without such credibility fears.
Even 5 seconds of a clip of Dr. Friedman delivering a speech
will set the tone for engaging public interest. Doesn't have to
be a big splashy story.

In many fields of struggle, I think it's common for people to
yearn for a big splashy solution, while forgetting the tale of
the tortoise and the hare.

 >But the least likely scenario is the one most frequently
 >cited... the ever-popular media cover-up. While TV and Radio are
 >susceptible to government pressure, because of government
 >licensing requirements, the fact is most of the media is made up
 >of thousands of independent newspapers, magazines, radio and
 >television stations. The Soviets managed that type of
 >information suppression, but only by limiting the number of
 >media outlets. In our current multi-channel universe, every
 >publication and broadcaster is looking to gather more readers,
 >listeners or viewers that their competition... and if running
 >wall-to-wall UFO stories would bring in the numbers, the media
 >wouldn't hesitate. And speaking as a professional journalist of
 >more than 2 decades, I can tell you definitive proof of alien
 >contact with earth would get me ACTRAs and Pulitzers from now
 >until eternity and a shining spot in the journalists hall of
 >fame. But I won't base my retirement plans on the possibility.

I've worked in big business too. All it takes is a facial
expression or bit of body language from the "big guy" and
censorship is accomplished as surely as if there were a squad of
armed soldiers posted behind the reporter's desk. You know that.

 >Perhaps the problem, at least as far as TV goes, is the mis-
 >conception that Television is an information medium. It isn't,
 >nor is it an educational or entertainment medium. In fact TV is
 >an _advertising_ medium, the programs are there to space out the
 >ads, not the other way around.

TV can be used as an information medium if the will to do so
is there. Again, you only need to inject a few seconds of UFO
information at any one time, as long as it is done _regularly_.
Just like exercise versus middle-aged flab.

 >But as I said, that's not to say
 >public broadcasters are any better.. they aren't. Ask John Velez
 >about his PBS experience.

I know. My cousin is Hedrick Smith, formerly of the New
York Times Moscow Bureau, participant on Washington
Week in Review, and now a PBS producer. I was not able
to motivate him to attend Dr. Greer's May 10th conference,
even though he lives close by in Maryland. I was also not
able to persuade him to take on another cause of similar
importance to UFOs.

 >Sagan once said extraordinary claims require extraordinary
 >proof... and that's especially true of the media in general and
 >TV in particular.

I agree - and I recommend small but _regular_ high quality info
bits on your channel to start the public interest ball rolling.


Eleanor White








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                Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:10:47 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:09:52 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White


 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:40:47 +0100
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:22:34 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:49:37 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:06 +0000
 >>>>Subject: SDI 190 May 25 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>><snip>

 >>>>when we can expect the first UFO story to be printed or aired
 >>>>along side all the other "old news"?

 >>>Ever heard of the Roswell, N.M., 'saucer crash'?

 >>Yes, in 1947. That's my point. The media is blatantly using
 >>the "old news" excuse, meaning, the genre is old, to not
 >>print current day stories.

<snip>

 >>My hope is that EBK will pass this comment about this faulty
 >>excuse to those guests. That will bring other false logic
 >>excuses, which we can rebut, until the real barrier will have to
 >>be tendered, or, media reps will have to remain silent, which is
 >>the same as admitting to a cover up.

 >I can understand your beef on this, but here's a thought, surely
 >in the light of 9/11 a UFO seen over New York or Washington for
 >instance would be of some media interest, judging by the
 >heightened security.

 >UFO items are not old news, just not happening news.

You know something? If asked informally and away from
the office, I'll bet 100% of media people who have rejected
UFO stories know quite well UFOs _are_ happening, but
are afraid to print any specific case because of fear the one
they would choose would turn out to be a hoax.

Perhaps a screening committee approach would help the media exec
have the confidence to print/air such a story?

Perhaps this List could be used to solicit nominations?

With a semi-elected committee, the exec is not nearly on
the hook as much as at present.

 >The events of 9/11 were witnessed by hundreds on the ground and
 >millions around the World... happening. A UFO event is witnessed
 >by a handful of people at best, no-ones really sure what it
 >was... not happening. It becomes an end of news segment.

As in another reply to Mike Woods, UFO news could be presented
as one of the occasionally-aired "departments" used by all the
media. It doesn't need to be a lead story to accomplish
motivation of the public.

 >The media are simply playing to the publics interest.

Since the general public never sees UFO news, any interest
is stifled before it can bloom. Polls show there is quite a bite
of interest by the public.

 >For example:

 >I have had it up to here (pointing to my forehead) about David
 >Beckhams foot injury and whether he can play for England in the
 >World cup.

 >This (believe it or not) was the top story, above everything
 >else that's been going on in the World.

 >Blair could have given a moonie outside 10 Downing Street, it
 >still would have played second fiddle to Beckhams foot. What
 >chance would UFO news have.

 >That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Doesn't have to be that way, but both UFO researchers and the
media need to grasp how effective _regular_, quality assured,
not splashy and not long, media items can be in motivating the
public. If this is done, there will be the necessary public
interest to press government to disclose what they know on UFOs.

There is no reason to hide UFO information, is there? All it
will take is enough people asking/demanding.

Slow and steady gets the job done.








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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:06:00 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:11:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:14:00 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?


 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 13:29:42 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 11:02:27 -0300
 >>>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 >>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>>>Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 20:13:27 EDT
 >>>>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >><snip>


 >>Don, List -

 >>I first talked to Kaufmann in 1989, after learning about him
 >>from Walter Haut. In early 1989 he showed me copies of various
 >>sketches he had made (and say what you will about the man, he
 >>was, to my untrained eye, quite an artist) that showed some of
 >>these things that would appear later. So, the earliest that I
 >>saw them was 1989, prior to one of the articles in Mechanics
 >>Illustrated but certainly after we all had had good looks at the
 >>SR-71.

 >>To answer the question, the documents surfaced in the early part
 >>of 1989 and he offered more later, in 1990 and then in 1997, he
 >>showed me a letter. But the illustrations showing the craft I
 >>first saw in 1989.


 >Hello Kevin,

 >Thanks for answering some questions regarding Frank Kaufman.  I
 >would love to red your Fate story. I looked at their website and
 >it is not listed yet. I am in Germany and don't really have
 >other access to the magazine besides the websites. When I was
 >young I used to read Fate and True decades ago but in later life
 >I have found Fate to be more speculative than other research
 >(including yours) of interest to me.

This confuses me because I have done very few articles for FATE.
In the coming issue (June 2000) I have an article on the
solution to the mystery of the disappearance of the Star Dust.
We now know what happened to the airplane though no one has yet
to figure out what STENDIC means.

 >In the May issue Jim Keith (who I have always considered
 >somewhat speculative) reurrects the old Roswell B29 crash or
 >dummy bomb drop (it is certainly not listed in the roster of
 >nuclear accidents, such as the B52 bomb drops) and he of course
 >attributes it to unnamed sources.

Well, you know that my uncle was stationed at Roswell (Curt
Platt) and I talked to him about this a couple of times. He
remembered nothing involving a B-29 crash or the loss of a bomb
that would account for the stories... not to mention no
documentation that would cover this. We looked long and hard for
it, thinking that if something like that happened, those
involved might try to hide the facts to protect their careers.

 >Kevin, I long ago dismissed Kaufman due to research that was
 >reported by you and others. I still have some questions and may
 >have forgotten some things about his case. I will ask just a few
 >here. I don't know if it is legally possible to post your Fate
 >story here but I think at least an outline on this list would be
 >a valuable service. It may help you not get bombarded with
 >questions.

If you remember, Philip Mantle announced his online magazine and
the article will appear on that site, complete with pictures. We
had a great deal of trouble getting it all sent to him so that
it could be posted by the end of the month which is... well,
about now.

 >To bomb you with a few:

 >As you have been asked, did Lind Howe somehow have access to the
 >original letter and his report? Or was her "yellowing pages" an
 >elaboration of hers?

He showed me documents, some of them looking to be originals and
some of them clearly copies. I have no idea what Linda Howe
might have seen but I remember seeing nothing I would call
"yellowing".

 >In his letter report were some of those abbreviations checked
 >ala the MJ-12 alleged documents?

The abbreviations seem to be real, but that doesn't prove much of
anything.

 >Has anyone put in a FOIA request to see if that letter exists,
 >whether still classified or not.

 >Has anyone checked the National Archives?

Yes and yes. Remember, with FOIA, they are required to respond
within ten working days, but that response can be and often is,
"We're working on the problem and we'll get back to you..." I
have received FOIA material four and five years after the
initial request.

I was at the National Archives in January, searching through
various Roswell related records but found nothing that would
help prove or disprove Frank's tales.

 >Do you think because he can only produce photocopies that he
 >invented this to get some misplaced notoriety?

Frank was always reluctant to provide copied material because,
as he said, "They're loose as a goose," meaning that with a copy
machine (or a computer with some good software) it was possible
to create almost anything. So, he knew how to do it.

On the other hand, Frank didn't come forward. I had to find him,
based on what others had said. He was always very cagey about
what he said and what he would show us.

 >Was his claimed intelligence position real? I vaguely remember
 >that he was a Sgt. and that his supposedly cover position was
 >not in intelligence?

During the war he clearly was an NCO, which in and of itself
means very little. His civilian position, after the war, was as
a personnel clerk and he told me, repeatedly, that he got out of
the Army on one day and was back at work the next as a civilian
which means, he was some kind of personnel clerk while in the
Army. This is what we can document.

He did say that he was involved in some clandestine work at the
base and I do know that sometimes the intelligence and
investigative people have another job so they aren't always
watched. Sheridan Cavitt told me that Bill Rickett had been
assigned to one base as a maintenance NCO so that he could
conduct an investigation. So, it's not unheard of.

My opinion is that Frank was involved but at a low level and
that he has or rather did, insert himself into the middle,
making his role seem larger than it was. There have been some
interesting corroborations to things he said.

And now, in the finest traditions of promoting my own books, I
will tell you that in Dec 2002, I have a book CASE MJ-12 (which
is not a title I picked) coming out that will elaborate on all
of this and will provide more information. In some cases I can
even name names.

Anyway, I hope this provides some additional insight here. I
don't think the final questions have been answered on Frank.


KRandle









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                Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:52:45 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:13:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site? -


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?


 >>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:14:00 +0200
 >>Subject: Re: Unknown Key Roswell Photos On FBI Site?

 ><snip>

 >>Kevin, I long ago dismissed Kaufman due to research that was
 >>reported by you and others. I still have some questions and may
 >>have forgotten some things about his case. I will ask just a few
 >>here. I don't know if it is legally possible to post your Fate
 >>story here but I think at least an outline on this List would be
 >>a valuable service. It may help you not get bombarded with
 >>questions.


Good Morning, All -

 ><snip>

 >Karl Pflock interviewed Kaufman (and saw some of his enigmatic
 >papers) and the results are in his book. Pflock describes a
 >weird oragami aircraft with cryptic messages on it among
 >Kaufman's collection. (Pflock thinks Kaufman is a complete
 >fake.)

I actually have my own little folded airplane courtesy of Frank.
The one he showed Karl (and to me at a different time) had the
date of the crash on it and a couple of other things.

Of course Karl thinks Frank is a fake because if he isn't, then
Karl's theory is wrong. This is also why there are others who
reject Frank's tales. If they are accurate, then some very
tightly held beliefs turn out to be false.

 >I get the impression Kaufman might have indeed heard or seen
 >some interesting things in '47, but that he "elaborated"
 >significantly in his later years.

I believe that Frank was involved but that his role was somewhat
less important than he suggested. I believe that he had good
information and there is some corroboration for it. As I
mentioned in another post, I have a book coming out in Dec (Case
MJ-12) which will elaborate on all this.

 >Again, we need to subject his papers to forensic analysis, if
 >possible. And if not possible, why not?

Frank was always reluctant to turn over the papers for analysis
and I think he had visions of dollars dancing in his head. The
last interview I arranged for him, he argued with the producer
for a fee for his services. The whole thing is on tape and it's
not a pleasant sight. But this was after the Japanese had been
down there handing out wads of cash to everyone they could find
(which is not a criticism of the Japanese... they have the
enlightened belief that those helping them should be compensated
for that help.

Now, with Frank gone (meaning dead) I have had little luck in
tracing all these papers.

KRandle










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                Re: Black Triangle Over Winnipeg Last Night -

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 07:09:27 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:16:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Black Triangle Over Winnipeg Last Night -


 >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca>
 >To: canufo@yahoogroups.com
 >Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 16:15:36 -0500 (CDT)
 >Subject: [canufo] Black Triangle Over Winnipeg Last Night

 >I received an email from someone who saw a very unusual object
 >over Winnipeg last night. He does not want his name (or voice)
 >to be used publicly, unfortunately, but I believe his UFO
 >sighting warrants some follow-up.

 >This is what he observed in the company of two others, just west
 >of Salter St. in the North End:

 >================================================

 >At 11:44, we saw a huge triangle shaped object moving from the
 >south end of the city then,directly over head, moving Northward.
 >My guess would be that it was flying at an altitude between 2000
 >and 3000 feet? It was black and had a very pointy front end like
 >an elongated triangle with 3 huge slowly pulsating red/orange
 >circles underneath it's body (kind of the appearance of an
 >element on hard top electric stove). It seemed to be moving a
 >little faster then a Jetliner coming in for a landing. It was
 >enormous probably the size of a football field as I compared it
 >to a passenger jetliner that made its approach for landing
 >moving across the north end of the city heading west
 >approximately 15 minutes later. The black object made no noise
 >whatsoever and seemed to "glide" across the sky silently. We
 >also noticed looking directly at the craft that it seemed "hazy"
 >like it was traveling with a "fog" around it. I think it would
 >have been quite invisible but the full moon last night made it
 >visible. I don't know if anyone else saw it all I know is we
 >were quite shaken up by this sighting.

 >================================================

I just returned from Rachel, Nevada for the UFO Friendship
Campout and observers from MUFON from Boise, Idaho and a CBS TV
news crew also from Boise witnessed a large soundless flying
triangle with 4 lights on it emerge from the vicinity of S4 and
fly slowly around the Tikaboo Valley. It had peculiar "firefly"
lights in the air surrounding it. At one point it turned on-end.

At other times military activity was observed in the Groom Lake
area including flares and aircraft.  Chuck Clark spotted a B-52
fly over on Sunday.

Area 51 is not deactivated despite rumors.  It is alive and well
and still flying strange stuff.

-Bill Hamilton








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              Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:12:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:18:17 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:42:39 +0200
 >Subject: Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:58:10 +0200
 >>Subject: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

 >>Source: BBC Suffolk, April 22, 2002,

 >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/features/ufos/richard_daviesufos_t
rees.shtml

 >>***

 >>Monday 22nd April, 2002 - 17:00 BST

 >>Rendlesham forest tree with an alien face?

<snip>

 >Stig,

 >Sorry, maybe I need to get my eyes checked. I don't see an alien
 >face in those tree markings. It sort of reminds me of looking at
 >cloud figures or trying to turn irregularities on the Roswell
 >Debris sticks into alien symbols.


Hello Josh/list,

Because the "image" is so natural-looking, it is quite difficult
to get a decent photograph of it. I have 3 photographs of it
(taken at night in the rain!), and none of them are any better
than the one on the web site referred to. In clear daylight and
with your own eyes, it only takes a tiny amount of artistic
interpretation to see it.

I agree with your point about "wishful interpretation", if the
mark was on a tree nowhere near a reported UFO incident, it
would probably not even be noticed. Some people seem to pick up
on these simulacrae, and place great significance on them-just
look at the "image of the devil" in the September 11th flames. I
also remember an article on the internet (URL lost) about a
group of new agers in a desert in the US who worship a simulacra
on a rock-I think it was meant to represent an alien?


Regards,

Joe









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                Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:51:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:21:58 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:31:21 EDT
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:02:38 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

<snip>

 >Glad that you got the point.

 >Which was.... After the Roswell fiasco maybe nobody in the real
 >world wants to waste any more time on old flying or crashed
 >saucer tales?

How about some of the newer ones? Are any of the alleged Latin
American crashes valid?

Again, a committee, even a self appointed one which has general
support of the wider UFO research community, could investigate
first before the media exec is asked to air or print it. A media
exec would be far more likely to air or print a story that has
some sort of collective approval by serious researchers.

Or how about some biographical sketches of the Greer witnesses,
again, those who such a committee determines do not have glaring
discrepancies in their pasts.

It is do-able, but all involved will have to realize that wars
are won a foot at a time, and a lot of patient slogging is
needed before victories occur. Small stories, not slpashy huge
revelations, are what will get the job done.


Eleanor White







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              Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:00:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 03:03:44 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?



 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 04:58:10 +0200
 >Subject: BBC Suffolk: Rendlesham Tree With Alien Face?

 >Source: BBC Suffolk, April 22, 2002,

 >http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/features/ufos/richard_daviesufos_trees.shtml

 >Stig

Hi Stig, All

I think it's a load of tosh. At first glance I thought it was
the universal birdie sign!

Regards

Sean







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                Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:09:41 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 03:07:12 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:47:52 EDT
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 07:22:34 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:49:37 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:06 +0000
 >>>>Subject: SDI 190 May 25 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 ><snip>

 >>>>when we can expect the first UFO story to be printed or aired
 >>>>along side all the other "old news"?

 >>>Ever heard of the Roswell, N.M., 'saucer crash'?

 ><snip>

 >>The media is blatantly using
 >>the "old news" excuse, meaning, the genre is old, to not
 >>print current day stories.

 >Eleanor:

 >How about the January 2000 police sightings in Michigan and the
 >lights moving with the wind in northern N.J. last year? They
 >received lots of publicity. But not every night light tale or
 >abduction regurgitation deserves to get in the news.

Agreed. Did you see my suggestion about a UFO researcher review
committee to take the pressure off media execs?

 >Then there was last year's Greer media circus. It, too, recieved
 >more publicity that it deserved. Then it died because of lack of
 >credibility.

My take on it was that it died because of 9/11. I have heard on
SDI that certain Greer witnesses are questionable. I agree fully
with SDI guests that Dr. Greer should have submitted all
witnesses he planned to use to other researchers, not connected
with his Disclosure Project, for review of their backgrounds,
much like is supposed to happen with U.S. Senate confirmation of
Supreme Court justices.

Since Disclosure is slowed to a crawl at the moment, that can
still be done. By the way, I did suggest that to one member of
his staff. I also suggested he endorse the U.N. disclosure
petition too. No response to either.

But you know how type "A" human beings are - they are not always
good team players. Sometimes you just have to work with who and
what you have, rather than wishing for the best.

 >The Roswell 50th Anniversary Year was the peak in public and
 >media interest. Since then the subject has flopped.

The job is more likely to get done, in my opinion, if it is done
in _regular_ small doses, "tortoise-and-hare" fashion, than
trying for a big splash. It is that incremental, like-layers-
of-paint approach I'm suggesting to keep Ufology in the media.

30 second items every other week on a channel like Toronto's
City TV would definitely help.

 >And probably with good reason. What has happened during the last
 >five years to merit national media attention? Greer only
 >provided more evidence for the mainstream media suspicion that
 >there's no news because there's no real new news, just the same
 >old tire saucer stories.

Sightings are happening every week. Guests are interviewed. A
notable guest on SDI is sufficient for a small news item. But so
far, this steady-as-you-go approach has never been tried with
mainstream, "6 o'clock news" media far as I know. Why not try
this?

City TV and Toronto would be a fine laboratory to try this in.


Eleanor White







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              Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:32:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 03:12:11 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Lehmberg


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:31:21 EDT
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 06:02:38 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:49:37 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:06 +0000
 >>>>Subject: SDI 190 May 25 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >><snip>

 >>>>when we can expect the first UFO story to be printed or aired
 >>>>along side all the other "old news"?

 >>>Ever heard of the Roswell, N.M., 'saucer crash'?

 ><snip>

 >>Ms. White wrote clearly if a bit sarcastically that there is no
 >>"news", there has never been "news", and (if I read correctly
 >>and paraphrase) no suspect mainstream seriously looks for
 >>"news". Additionally, you've no news and _that's_ no news. For
 >>news, read Ms. White; she's outside the oxygen depleted confines
 >>of your ufological box, I think, and is the kind of person
 >>seeing at once that your insentient emperor has no clothes, sits
 >>naked on its stumbling and senseless horse, and is wandering out
 >>of Smalltown where the 'barbarians' wait to eat him.

 >Hi Al,

...as I've said before, Mr. Young, I'm not partial to "Al".
Alfred or Mr. Lehmberg, please.

 >Glad that you got the point.

I have the point. The point is the ponderous perception of
persons such as yourself so filled with denial, dismissal, and
detraction there's no room left to consider the ufological
obvious. The point is that too much thinking goes on inside a
box so confining that a thinking person can't take a reasonable
breath. The point is that you happily celebrate denial and
passionately refute discovery. These are the "points," such as
they are... but take heart, you're having it your way, the
larger reality can continue incognito as you continue your part
in the mainstream charade. Be proud.

 >Which was.... After the Roswell fiasco maybe nobody in the real
 >world wants to waste any more time on old flying or crashed
 >saucer tales?

"Real world", Mr. Young? "Real world"? I _eat_ the real world. I
prefer the taste. Moreover, Roswell is jerked back and forth
across the line of incredulity so hard and often for a purpose I
think even _you_ could detect, Mr Young. The fact that every
time it comes up a new lie is generated by closed institututions
to dispell it should speak volumes to you, but only if you were
remotely interested in the truth, or what a real truth must
be... it's likely not what you think it is. Hell -- it's likely
not what _I_ think it is... but your arrogant support of it in
the form an SB party line jerks a knot in _my_ tail.

 >Clear skies,

Ammmm - no. There's the same weird stuff flashing around over
_your_ head, too. Your skies are _far_ from clear. They're
occluded by the light of a million billion trillion suns you
refuse to sense the light from. UFOs are real, to quote the
"Dean"; get used to it.

 >When it comes to flying saucers, it is still January, 1950

That's absolutely correct, but not the way you and Peebles mean
it. It's still January 1950 only because we haven't had the
courage, drive, or prerequisites to move beyond it, yet.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.








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              Confirmation That Life On Mars Was Found In 1976?

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:28:15 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 04:32:01 -0400
Subject: Confirmation That Life On Mars Was Found In 1976?


Hi everyone!

Very cold air temperatures and the total absence of water were
the two principle reasons that convinced most of the scientists
studying the Viking landers data that the positive results they
got indicating that life was found on Mars could only be from
chemical and not biological reactions.

In light of what we now know about the _surface_ temperature of
Mars and that those dark fresh looking streaks seen in the Mars
Global Surveyor images was evidence that Mars does have _lots_ of
water, the only explanation possible (unless there is some very
exotic chemistry on Mars) is the biological one. This is
supported by the space.com article below.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/odyssey_viking_020528.html


Nick Balaskas

BTW, the space.com web site originally had an excellent UFO web
page which they dropped for "credibility" reasons. They have
managed to keep their SETI web page though...








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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #366

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:53:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 04:58:54 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #366


Alfred's Odd Ode #366 (Wednesday May 29, 2002)

Let's consider now the mainstream, thought reflective and
sincere, a limit on bad thinking -- a buffer from our fear.
Supposed a mediation, a distillation of the facts, it's
portrayed as very logical -- the cure for "fakes and hacks".
  It's been sold as valid medicine, protection from the fringe,
the unwashed and the ignorant, the deluded and unhinged.

It's the view that most will hold... _because_ it is 'official'.
Other views are ridiculed, so, implode with their dismissal.
It's opposed to other views, which fade in sad distraction as
the mainstream is a jealous foe and a _master_ of detraction!
  It will leave no stone unturned to keep its upper hand, and
many that must challenge it are cursed, betrayed, or damned.

It _owns_ the eyes and ears, we have, with which we watch our
day, and what's perceived depends upon the values it portrays.
But it _pretends_ the common sense, the middle of the road, the
sober and the rational, and what at last sells soap. So I've
become suspicious of the track that it would take, the positions
it's presuming, and the point is seems to make.

And it's a point that satisfies... the folks with all the
'money' (?), those owners of the eyes and ears, which seems a
little funny. The mainstream should reflect a mean, an average
we could use to find our way from day to day -- that path of
least abuse (?), but it's in fact duplicitous and hobbled by its
bias... which is prosecuted merrily by those few who would deny
us.

"Deny us what?", you smirk and sneer (officious and complacent).
Well -- deny us well nigh _everything_, you less than
perspicacious! We're denied a real world, with 'real' people
leading. We're denied the oversight of oversight that's needed.
We're denied the real deal on what our actions cost, on who must
pay for us to play, or a measure for our loss. We are sold a
bill of goods, we're led around by glands, and we don't get the
pictures that occur in other lands, so we're denied a picture of
the way things _really_ are. we're denied reality! Now, isn't
_that_ bizarre!

Don't pretend to fool yourself the mainstream acts for you, the
hapless individual who is looking for some truth. It does in
fact mistrust you and will punish you, you know? It's a
buttress in the service of corrupted status quos. There is in
fact corruption of a type that startles _me_ when I find it in
the fabric of existence. It's a cunning contrivation by a clan
of psychopaths who support it with a covetous persistence.

And it won't care that Christians are allowed to prey on kids,
or keep the crooked cops corralled when up to their old tricks.
  It is unaffected by injustice we endure as the ENRONs of the
business world collude _their_ bull manure. It is this _bogus_
mainstream that provides us all the pap that the talking heads
are drooling from their storage bins of crap. It's unimpressed
that children die, well _up_ in to the millions! It _shall_ not
see a "Death Row" as a place for black civilians. It won't
admit to slavery, and it won't admit to craft, and it won't
admit that it's remiss by practicing its graft!

The mainstream's _not_ the mainstream when it won't reflect the
views of the people it confuses with an obfuscation's ruse! It
_cannot_ be a mainstream if dismissing UFOs, as it's eighty in a
hundred that are thinking "someone knows." Our mainstream's a
_betrayer_ of the truth that most would seek! The mainstream's
_made_ the lap dog of some grand conspiracy?

Our mainstream has been hijacked by some psychopathic thieves
that are busy with their passion as they prosecute their needs.
It won't reflect the _real_ mean; it means instead to _make_ the
'mean'. And that is like a mirror made to fudge upon
reflection, where one can't see the blemishes one might find on
close inspection -- where one perceives the fairest skin, no
need to wash ones face, and so suffers unseen blemishes one
would view with some distaste.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Here are some items that the mainstream has had plenty of time
to be forthcoming about, all perfect opportunities for the
mainstream to actually _be_ a mainstream -- a reflection of a
golden mean, the core of rationality and logic, and a steady
(trustworthy) social foundation for far too many people on much
too small a world:

The unidentified craft appeared to take efficient controlled
evasive action.
--FBI Memo, describing chase of UFO over the North Sea, 1947.

Before we could do any more, the Army, after conferring with
[U.S.] officials, ordered the investigation stopped.
--Dr. Paul Santorini, on UFOs over Greece in 1946.

The reported operating characteristics such as extreme rates of
climb, maneuverability (particularly in roll), and action which
must be considered evasive when sighted... lend belief to the
possibility that some of the objects are controlled.....
--General Nathan Twining, Head of Air Material Command (AMC),
1947.

I was called one afternoon [in 1948] to come to the Oval Office -
the President wanted to see me... I was directed to report
quarterly to the President after consulting with Central
Intelligence people, as to whether or not any UFO incidents
received by them could be considered as having any strategic
threatening implications.....
--General Robert B. Landry, Air Force Aide to President Harry S.
Truman.

 From their questions, I could tell they had a good idea of what
the saucers are. One officer admitted they did, but he wouldn't
say any more.
--Commercial pilot, after questioning by intelligence officer,
1950.

Army intelligence has recently said that the matter of
'Unidentified Aircraft' or 'Unidentified Aerial Phenomena',
otherwise known as 'Flying Discs', 'Flying Saucers', and 'Balls
of Fire', is considered top secret by intelligence officers of
both the Army and the Air Forces.
--1949 FBI memo on UFOs.

Information is desired if this was some new or experimental
aircraft or for any explanation whatsoever.
--1949 CIA memo.

[Object] described as flat on top and bottom and appearing from
a front view to have round edges and slightly beveled..... No
vapor trails or exhaust or visible means of propulsion.
Described as traveling at tremendous speed..... Pilot considered
by associates to be highly reliable, of mature judgment and a
creditable observer.
--Air Force intelligence report, following UFO sighting by F-51
pilot, 1951.

... some propulsion method not in the physics books.
--Scientist who witnessed a UFO in 1952.

For six hours... there were at least ten unidentifiable objects
moving above Washington. They were not ordinary aircraft.
--Senior Air Traffic Controller for the CAA, Harry G. Barnes,
1952.

Based on my experience in fighter tactics, it is my opinion that
the object was controlled by something having visual contact with
us. The power and acceleration were beyond the capability of any
known U.S. aircraft.
--F-94 pilot, after encountering a UFO, 1952.

In view of the wide interest within the Agency... outside
knowledge of Agency interest in Flying Saucers carries the risk
of making the problem even more serious in the public mind than
it already is.
--CIA memo, 1952

It was silvery in color, had a bun-shaped top, a flange like two
saucers in the middle and a bun underneath, and could not have
been far off because it overlapped my windscreen!
--RAF fighter pilot, 1954.

Maximum security exists concerning the subject of UFOs.
--CIA Director Allen Dulles, 1955.

Some military officials are seriously considering the
possibility of interplanetary ships.
--FBI memo on UFOs, 1952.

Pilot of helicopters wished to stress fact that object was of a
saucer like nature, was stationary at 2000 ft. And would be glad
to be called upon to verify any statements and act as witness.
--Emergency Report from Maxwell Air Force Base on air space
violation by UFO, 1954.

I have discussed this matter with the affected agencies of the
government, and they are of the opinion that it is not wise to
publicize this matter at this time.
--Senator Richard Russell, head of Senate Armed Services
Committee, regarding his sighting of a UFO during a 1955 trip to
the Soviet Union.

What bothers me is what's happening to our aircraft.
--Anonymous Air Force officer, 1955.

The Air Defense Command in Baton Rouge was on the phone, waiting
for our report, when we landed there.
--Commercial pilot following a UFO sighting, 1957.

Saucers exist (I saw two). They were intelligently flown or
operated (evasive tactics, formation flight, hovering). They
were mechanisms, not United States weapons, nor Russian. I
presume they are extraterrestrial.
--Lt. Colonel Richard Headrick, radar bombing expert, 1959

Reliable reports indicate there are objects coming into our
atmosphere at very high speeds and controlled by thinking
intelligence.
--Navy Admiral Delmar Fahrney, public statement, 1957.

Congressional investigations ... are still being held on the
problem of unidentified flying objects and the problem is one in
which there is quite a bit of interest.... Since most of the
material presented to the Committees is classified, the hearings
are never printed.
--Congressman William H. Ayres, 1958

Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly
concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule,
many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are
nonsense.
--Former CIA Director, Roscoe Hillenkoetter, public statement,
1960.

When the team was about ten miles from the landing site, static
disrupted radio contact with them. Five to eight minutes later
the glow diminished, and the UFO took off. Another UFO was
visually sighted and confirmed by radar.
--Classified report by an Air Force Strike Team at Minot AFB,
1966.

... reliable, but off the record information from the Pease AFB
in Portsmouth, indicates frequent radar blips and fighters are
constantly scrambled to pursue these objects.
--Journalist John Fuller, 1965.

I think there may be substance in some of these reports ... I
believe the American people are entitled to a more thorough
explanation than has been given them by the Air Force to date.
--Congressman Gerald R. Ford, March 1966.

If 'they' discover you, it is an old but hardly invalid rule of
thumb, 'they' are your technological superiors.
--National Security Analyst, Lambros Callimahos, 1968.

My own present opinion, based on two years of careful study, is
that UFOs are probably extraterrestrial devices engaged in
something that might very tentatively be termed 'surveillance'.
--Dr. James McDonald before Congress, 1968.


... All of preceding are frozen moments in our ufological past
and, collected together, are a largely unimpeachable indication
regarding the actuality of some larger reality... a grand
physical existence from which we are being, very suspiciously,
"protected" by a conflicted, corrupted, and likely criminal
mainstream. Somebody knows. Read on.

~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the specious and scabrous scurrilous.








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                 Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 -

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:15:23 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:06:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 -


 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 05:02:09 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1

 >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:03:19 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >>Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1

<snip>

 >>Maybe if one of us (how about Timothy Good?) can contacted this
 >>engineer, he just may keep his promise and we may finally have
 >>our proof.

 >I had occasion to telephone Transmedia about a video they
 >published on another topic in the late 1990s. At that time they
 >were located in London, England, if that helps. Sorry, I have
 >since lost the number.

<snip>

Hi Eleanor!

Thanks to an e-mail sent to me regarding this post, it now seems
more likely that we will finally know very soon about the UFOs
and the aliens in Area 51. I was informed that the name of this
unidentified engineer in the Sky video is Captain Bill Uhouse
and is one of Steven Greer's UFO Disclosure witnesses. Regarding
his permission (in the 1996 Sky video) to release the UFO
information he has to the public in 2002, he has this to say in
Greer's 2001 'Disclosure' book <my comments>:

  "You know, there were certain reasons for the secrecy. I could
  understand that; it was no different than the first atomic bomb
  that they built. But they are getting so far ahead now with
  aircraft design <Bill makes earlier references to the flying
  triangles>. And, like I told you gentlemen earlier - that by
  2003, most of this stuff will be out for everybody to look at
  <Did some in Winnipeg recently get such a preview?>. Maybe not
  the way that everybody expects it, but in some manner they
  determine... appropriate to show everybody. You know, a big
  surprise <Could it be this May or June as predicted by the
  Amazing Kreskin?>."

  "The reason why I said that is because the document I signed
  ends in 2003 and I'm not the only one who signed those."

With the decision to place many millions of previouly classified
DOD documents on the web for all to access which you shared with
us in another e-mail to UFO UpDates, we shouldn't be that big of
a surprise for us.


Nick Balaskas








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                 Second Annual NW UFO Paranormal Conference

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 01:58:07 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:09:35 -0400
Subject: Second Annual NW UFO Paranormal Conference


The conference is over now, but these were some of the items.
Source: Seattle Weekly,

http://www.seattleweekly.com/homepage/tw_mon.php3

Stig

***

Monday May 27, 2002

WEIRDNESS

Second Annual Northwest UFO Paranormal Conference-- Hear about
the latest UFO sightings, including an account of anomalous
flying creatures recently seen over Mexico. Listen to songs from
an extraterrestrial experiencer and a report on a Puget Sound
Mothman sighting. See UFO images taken by a family living in
Washington, and a video of UFO rods (a new life form?), and a
demonstration of body- and mind-effecting electronics. Among
other expert lectures, David Morehouse will hold forth on the
CIA's remote viewing techniques and Sean David Morton will
predict the future. SeaTac Radisson Hotel. Fri., May 24- Mon.,
May 27.

Christopher Frizzelle

**

=A9 1998-2002 Seattle Weekly








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             Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 02:54:32 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:12:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1 - Bowden


 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:02:29 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1

 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:03:04 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1

 >>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@lineone.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Interesting Snippit From Stargate SG1
 >>>Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 13:42:11 +0100

 >>Good Morning Dave

 >>>This is reminiscent of what happened to the makers of the movie
 >>>Independence Day.

 >>>Basically they said we like the script and we'll help with any
 >>>technical info but leave out all references to Area 51.

 >>>Since Area 51 was a major part of the plot it stayed in.

 >>>Possibly they want no reference to Area 51 containing aliens or
 >>>flying saucers simply because they don't wish to further the
 >>>myth.

 >Good morning to you Sean,

 >>I could kinda agree. Or it could be that they have had a sense
 >>of humour by-pass?

 >>I think that it still has something to do with the fact that it
 >>is still not marked on any maps, and they still wish to stay low
 >>key. And a for aliens, are we ever likely to truly find out?

 >Not marked on any maps is indeed a fact, but this could be
 >something to do with them being a top secret base!

 >The most un-secret top secret base in the World mind you.

 >Makes me wonder where the real one's are, Area 51 always looks
 >to me like a decoy.


Talk about synchronicity.

Since posting the above I have just seen a program aired on
Channel 4 (UK) called The Secret map of Britain.

According to this there are many secret military installations
dotted across the UK that do not appear on any maps.

The reporter (Mark Thomas) and crew travelled to some of them to
try and find out why. Each time they were approached by security
guards asking "what are you doing here and do you have
permission to film?" They were always asked to leave, at one
point they even had a Police escort away from the location.

There was one place that had a sign on a barbed wire covered
fence that said:

PROHIBITED PLACE
PHOTOGRAPHING AND
SKETCHING FORBIDDEN

Mark Thomas stood by the sign with a sketch book and pen drawing
something which he then showed to the camera, a simple picture
of a cartoon cat with whiskers, sort of thing my kids might have
done.

"Is it alright if I sketch that?" he said.

Just 'taking the mick' in other words.

This whole thing makes me think back to my previous observation:

 >makes me wonder where the real one's are

If a small country like the UK has many such places then how
many must there be in a huge area like the US?

Area 51?
Could it be that we've all been fished in by a cleverly conceived
decoy??


Dave Bowden







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                    Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:27:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:16:38 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Fleming


 >From: Michael Woods <mike.woods@sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Media Not Covering Up
 >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:29:58 -0400

 >Does this mean the media is doing a good or even adequate job
 >covering UFOs? Probably not for the true believers, but
 >remember, for news operations to run a story, we've almost got
 >to have good enough evidence to stand up in court and the more
 >controversial the topic, the truer this is.

Maybe the press operates by different rules in Canada. That
certainly isn't true in the States. Former Congressman Gary
Condit, for example, was virtually found guilty of murder by the
press here without much in the way of evidence.

 >Where is the court-quality evidence for UFOs? I personally
 >believe in their reality and use every opportunity to get UFO
 >stories on the air at City tv, in Toronto... but when the only
 >'evidence' is a witness of limited credibility without any form
 >of supporting materials, like independent witnesses or again,
 >video, than no matter how sincere the person might be, they're
 >still in the same league as people who claim to see and speak to
 >God on regular basis. We don't doubt they are sincere, it might
 >even be true but in general most media won't touch it.

A few years ago several police officers in different
jurisdictions in Illinois reported a fairly remarkable UFO
travelling over a large region between Illinois and Missouri.
None of the police officers were sufficiently "credible"
witnesses for their reports to get much press coverage. But the
word of any one of them alone would be credible enough in a
court of law to send someone to jail if there wasn't good
evidence to the contrary (extraordinary evidence, you might
say).

But having more than just someone's word isn't good enough to
get a story covered in the media, either. One of the Disclosure
Project witnesses (at that press conference the press didn't go
to) was a former FAA official who, I recall, had additional
documentary evidence a Japan Airlines radar-visual case. It
seems to me that was "new" news worth reporting.

 >But the least likely scenario is the one most frequently
 >cited... the ever-popular media cover-up. While TV and Radio are
 >susceptible to government pressure, because of government
 >licensing requirements, the fact is most of the media is made up
 >of thousands of independent newspapers, magazines, radio and
 >television stations.

Have you read _The Missing Times_? It describes a few nuances in
the situation. Some regional and local small-town papers do, in
fact, do a reasonable job of covering UFO stories. It's the
  national media (TV networks, the New York Times, etc.), that do
an abysmal job of it.

 >Sagan once said extraordinary claims require extraordinary
 >proof... and that's especially true of the media in general and
 >TV in particular.

I've never gotten the impression that TV news operates that way.
In the US, there's a saying about how TV news stations decide
what to cover that's a bit different than Sagan's lofty if
ambiguous standards of evidence: "if it bleeds it leads."








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                  Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:14:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:18:38 -0400
Subject: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud


POSSIBLE LEGAL ACTION PENDING IN REED UFO FRAUD
Investigation Continues Into Financial Aspects of Fraud, Reports
Being Taken At Website For Class Action Lawsuit


UFOWATCHDOG.COM has received numerous complaints from people
that have purchased products related to the Reed UFO Hoax.
  These complaints have centered around the misrepresentation of
facts in this case by those associated with it.  In order to
continue our investigation into this case, and to see if there
are grounds for a class-action lawsuit against those involved
(which it appears there are), people are asked to direct all
reports here:

http://www.alientrack.com

If you have purchased books, video tapes, lecture tickets or
have hosted those involved with this scam as
presenters/lecturers, please do file a report at the link above.
  All the information you need to file a report is on-line at
Alien Track and will only take a few minutes to complete.

UFOWATCHDOG.COM has also received information that several
people contributed money to "Dr.Reed" to assist him after he
claimed to be struggling after his bogus alien encounter.
  Reports of these amounts vary from a few hundred dollars to
several thousand dollars.  If you have contributed any money to
"Dr.Reed" or any other people associated with this case, then
please go to Alien Track and file a report.  There are many
victims in this matter, and we only want to see justice done in
this case.

For those not familiar with this case, or do not know that
"Dr.Reed" has been exposed as a fraud, please read the
investigative report found at:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/exposed10.html







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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 22

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:41:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:24:32 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 22


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

    UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 7, Number 22
May 28, 2002
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


TWO MORE UFO CASES REPORTED IN INDIA

On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 7:20 p.m., Aninda Duta and his
wife "were driving from Bidhan Nagar to the airport in Calcutta.
While driving, my wife's attention was grabbed by a bright white
light, fairly low on the horizon in front of us and to our
right. Looking in the direction she was pointing, I observed an
extremely bright light."

"It was a perfectly clear night, and the clock on the dashboard
of my car informed it was precisely 7:20 p.m. The light was
clearly the brightest object in the sky by a factor of many
magnitudes (say, a factor of 20 percent brighter than the
brightest star that was visible--A.D.) Initially, I assumed it
was the landing lights of an aircraft, but, as I continued to
drive, I expected the light to diminish as my reference
(position in relation to) the aircraft continued to change. I
also expected to see the usual red and green blinking
(navigational) lights on the wing tips. But the remarkable thing
is that the intensity did not change, nor could you see the
intermittent red and green lights usually associated with
aircraft."

"I also thought that the object was a helicopter, as it seemed
to be just hanging motionless in the air. But with the car
windows down, neither one of us could hear any aircraft engine
sound. However, given the relative position of the light to us,
I would have definitely expected to hear some engine and rotor
noise," which would have been the case had the light been
attached to a real helicopter.

Nine days later, on Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 7 p.m., software
engineer Roger Sequeira, 31, had a strange encounter in Goa
state, about 300 kilometers (180 miles) south of Mumbai
(Bombay).

"First, let me tell you that until March 12th, I was a total
disbeliever in aliens," Roger reported, "However, on the 12th,
in Verna, Goa, on the eve of my departure for Mumbai, I was
taking a stroll on a deserted road. It was twilight, and there
were no other humans in sight and just some goats grazing in a
field."

"It was then that I saw an amber glow in front of me. I looked
up to see what was causing it and noticed a peculiar cylindrical
object hovering above. I cannot say exactly how large it was
because I was too confused to take in the details. As I stood in
the glow, I felt a rather strange sensation, as if my skin was
peeling. However, it caused me no bodily harm. Then the object
rose higher and moved out of sight."

"I consulted my watch to note the time and it said 7:03 p.m.
However, upon returning home, I noticed that my watch was still
showing 7:03 p.m. I am now in Mumbai and tried taking two family
members into confidence. But they only laughed at me and called
my thoughts irrational." (Many thanks to Louise A. Lowry of
World of the Strange for these reports.)


AUSTRALIAN UFO SEEN BY TWO POLICE OFFICERS

"'We've just seen a UFO!' was the radio call received by the
Mildura, (Victoria state, Australia) Police Station during the
early morning hours of yesterday," Friday, May 17, 2002.

"'At 5 a.m. this morning, Mildura divisional can crew members
Kate and Greg were patrolling Apex Park when their jaws dropped
at the sight of a very bright lit-up UFO hovering on the N.S.W.
(New South Wales) side of the river,' a police spokesperson
said."

"It appeared that the UFO spotted them at the same time as it
shot off in the direction of Gol Gol."

"'They attempted to give chase, but it had gone in the blink of
an eye,' the spokesperson said."

"'One of the officers commented over the air, 'We've just seen a
UFO!' and received the reply, 'We've just boiled the kettle; you
had better come in for a cup of tea and a lie-down.'"

"The spokesperson said one of the officers had seen a similar
sighting in the same area several months ago."

"'Her first sighting was the source of much mirth and mess room
humor among her colleagues,' he said." (Editor's Comment: Go
ahead and laugh, guys. But two UFO sightings between Mildura and
Gol Gol in a matter of months, and by the same officer? Sounds
to me as if Constable Kate might be a silent contactee.)

"Victoria UFO Research Society's Mildura representative Allan
Wilson said sightings around water were frequent occurrences."

"'I have not had any reports about this particular sighting, but
I can tell you that UFO sightings around bodies of water are
extremely common,' Mr. Wilson said."

"'I have heard of many stories similar to this one.'"

"'One call I had was in regard to a man who lived on a property
with a large water tank. He reported seeing a blue haze hovering
above his tank one night. When he went to investigate, the tank-
-which had been full--was completely empty. There was no
evidence of water having been spilt anywhere, It had just
vanished,' he said."

Mildura, Vic. is about 300 kilometers (180 miles) northwest of
Melbourne, the state capital. (See the Sunraysia Daily for May
18, 2002, "Police sighting of UFO." Many thanks to VUFORS for
this newspaper article.)


ABDUCTEE COMES FORWARD IN ANGOL, CHILE

"An electrician claims having been abducted by a UFO while
traveling between two cities in southern Chile."

"Gabriel Encina, 47, stated that his strange experience occurred
six years ago, but the anguish he experienced kept him from
disclosing it until now."

"'No one can keep me from thinking that I was abducted by
something or someone. What I saw wasn't an airplane or a flying
saucer--it was simply a very bright light that landed on top of
my car,' said Gabriel Encina in an interview with the newspaper
Diario Austral de Temuco."

"Encina notes that he never discussed the subject and that only
his wife and close friends knew about it. 'I know that others
will call me a madman.'"

"'In spite of the time that has elapsed, I'm still a bit
affected by it. Ever since the abduction, I have had headaches,
migraines and bone trouble,' he explained, 'I have difficulty
sleping. I'm afraid of dreaming, and when I close my eyes, I see
the light following me, moving slowly towards me.'"

"Encina recalled that the incident occurred on June 27, 1996 at
8 p.m. while traveling between Los Sauces and Angol in the La
Araucania region 608 kilometers (365 miles) south of Santiago de
Chile," the national capital, "under clear skies and the damp
weather characteristic of the winter season."

(Editor's Note: June is the middle of winter in Chile,
Argentina, Australia and the other countries of the southern
hemisphere.)

"'I suddenly saw a very bright white light some 3 meters (10
feet) in diameter which appeared and descended and followed me.
I accelerated but, curiously, the car lost speed,' he added."

"He says that when the light descended on his vehicle, the
radiance was so intense that he could make out dust particles
floating in the air. 'That's when I felt anguish and passed
out.'"

"According to Encina, when he awoke, both he and his car were
some 12 kilometers (8 miles) away from where the encounter with
the alleged UFO took place. 'My legs trembled, and my head hurt.
I was surprised that my wristwatch had stopped at 8:05 p.m.,
although about an hour had elapsed since the encounter,' Encina
explained."

"In mid-April of 2001, Erasmo Mena, an expert with the Centro
Informativo para el Fenomeno OVNI en America Latina (CIFOAL;
Spanish for Information Center on the UFO Phenomenon in Latin
America--J.T.) described the 'massive' presence of UFOs between
the cities of Angol and Victoria, which could be seen by the
unaided eye." (See the newspaper Diario Austral de Temuco for
May 14, 2002; also Spain's EFE news agency report for May 17,
2002. Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, autor de los libros
Chupacabras and Other Mysteries y Forbidden Mexico, y tambien
Marco Reynoso de Fundacion Cosmos para esas noticias.) (Editor's
Note: For more on the UFOs in Angol, see UFO Roundup, volume 7,
number 20 for May 14, 2002, "UFO flap breaks out in Angol,
Chile," page 2; and UFO Roundup, volume 6, number 10 for March
8, 2001, "Chilean couple's first date turns into an encounter
with aliens," page 2.)


ANOTHER COW MUTILATED IN CENTRAL ARGENTINA

"Another cow turned up dead in a very strange way in a field in
the General Acha region" of Argentina's La Pampa province.

"As in previous cases, the animal was bloodless and missing some
organs. No traces are found in the place, and the causes of
these deaths remain a source of mystery to the investigators.
During the recent discovery, despite the fact that the animal
had been dead for days in the outdoors, it had not yet
putrefied."

"Mystery struck once more in a local field. The latest event
occurred on the El Huitr farm some 70 kilometers (42 miles) from
the city (General Acha--J.T.) near Provincial Highways 115 and
18, where a dead cow was found with characteristics similar to
the first two (mutilation cases). It was bloodless and was
missing an eye, jaw and tongue."

"The strange part of the case is that authorities were unable to
find a perpetrator for the crime committed at Rural Lot 16,
Sector 7 of the Utracan department. (i.e. the El Huitr farm--
J.T.)."

"In an interview with this newsroom, the main official at the
local town hall, Roque Ceferino Estepa, reported that the
cattleman claimed that sometime between 6 p.m. on Tuesday, May
14, 2002 and 5 p.m. on Wednesday, May 15, 2002, he had found one
of his Aberdeen Angus cows- -approximately three years old and
weighing 450 kilograms (1,000 pounds)--mutilated by persons
unknown. Cattleman Dario Garcia alleged that the cow had been
found completely exsanguinated (drained of blood--J.T.), without
a tongue, and missing a left ear, its jaw and an eye, its udders
and vital organs."

"He further opined that in spite of the incisions made with hot
sharp objects, given that the animal's fat was still warm, there
were no traces of blood on the scene."

"Police elements under the commad of Officer Lucero established
themselves in the field along with veterinarian Juan Manuel
Orterdag, who analyzed the strange death."

"This is the third animal to have been found mutilated in
similar circumstances, which places a shroud of mystery over the
police investigation. The same happened only a few days ago at a
ranch in the vicinity of Salliquelo, where police investigators
have still been unable to find an answer."

General Acha is 150 kilometers (90 miles) west- southwest of
Salliquelo and about 550 kilometers (330 miles) southwest of
Buenos Aires, the national capital. (See the newspaper La Arena
of La Pampa, Argentina for May 23, 2002, "Another mutilated
animal found in a field." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y
Gloria Coluchi para eso articulo de diario.)

(Editor's Note: For more on the cattle mutilations in
Salliquelo, see UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 19 for May 7,
2002, "Three cattle mutilations reported in Argentina," page 2.)


MYSTERIOUS HUM HEARD IN KOKOMO, INDIANA

"It started as a low hum, barely noticeable. But within months,
the endless throbbing was like a corkscrew driving into Diane
Anton's temple."

"Some in Kokomo (population 46,113) claim city government knows
the noise comes from an industrial source but believes officials
are in cahoots with local industry and refuse to make companies
fix the problem."

"The walls of her (Ms. Anton's) house vibrated. Her bed shook.
Bouts of nausea, short-term memory loss and hand tremors
followed."

"'The noise was so penetrating and invasive,' she said, 'It was
just not getting better.'"

"So Ms. Anton quit her job, abandoned her $180,000 house and
fled. She was the first person driven out of the city by what's
come to be known as 'the Kokomo Hum.' But she may not be the
last."

"As many as 90 people in this industrial, central Indiana city
have complained about a low-frequency hum for the past three
years, City Attorney Ken Ferries said."

"While most residents don't hear a thing beyond the typical
sounds of the city's factories and busy roads, the City Council
approved a $100,000 study of the mysterious noise, often
described as the constant idling of a tractor trailer's diesel
engine."

"'We decided, rather than sit on our duffs and talk about it,
let's try to do something,' Ferries said. The city intends to
request proposals for the study by the end of the month."

"Those who suffer the hum, and have had years to educate
themselves about the sound, say it's about time. They point to
evidence, grounded in science, that the exposure to consistent,
low-frequency noise can cause vibracoustic disease. It has
symptoms that mirror the ailments those in Kokomo are
complaining about--nausea, headaches and dizziness, to name a
few."

"Unidentified sounds that bother a handful of people have popped
up in communities around the world, but because so few are
affected, the issue hasn't received much attention."

"In Taos, New Mexico, a small town in the Sangre de Cristo
Mountains, some residents were bothered by a mystery noise in
the early 1990s." (Editor's Comment: People in Taos are still
periodically hearing the hum.)

"They too described the sound as a diesel truck idling in the
distance and said it caused sleeplessness, dizziness and a host
of other symptoms."

"On the Puerto Rican island of Vieques, people have long
complained of health problems caused by low-frequency sound
coming from a U.S. Navy bombing range. The Navy has discounted
these claims and continues bombing in the area."

(Editor's Comment: Both Taos, N.M. and Vieques, P.R. are
notorious UFO "hot spots.")

"Kathie Sickles, who lives near Kokomo, spends most of her free
time trying to educate people about the hum. She packages
research papers and other studies in bright- colored plastic
folders and hands them out to City Council members. She makes
flyers for the public (entitled) Sound pollution can hurt you!
filled with Internet addresses and lists of symptoms associated
with exposure to low- frequency sound."

"'People need to know this is going on,' said Sickles, who
founded a group called Our Environment. 'People are getting sick
and nothing's being done.'"

"Angelo Campanella, an acoustical engineer hired by (Diane)
Anton, detected low-frequency sound in her neighborhood, but
said further research would be needed to clearly determine a
source. Campanella said he was not able to hear the sound Anton
described but believed 'others may be more sensitive to it.'"

"Most Kokomo residents aren't, however. Jeff Smith, owner of
Jeff's Barber Shop, said aside from news coverage of the issue
in the Kokomo Tribune , which urged an investigation in a front-
page editorial, he doesn't hear much about the hum."

"'As far as I know, I don't think it exists,' Smith said, 'I
can't say I've ever heard it.'" (See the MSNBC website for May
21, 2002. Many thanks to Jim Hickman for forwarding this news
story.)


That's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO,
Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth,
brought to you by "the paper that goes home- -UFO Roundup." See
you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on
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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 30

                          Filer's Files #22 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:08:41 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:32:52 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #22 - 2002



FILER'S FILES #22-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
May 29, 2002, Majorstar@AOL.COM.
Webmaster: Chuck Warren http://www.filersfiles.com.

MARS HAS WATER AND LIFE? UFO SIGHTINGS: New York double
sighting, Florida missing time, Kentucky meteors, Illinois moon,
Wisconsin and Michigan flying triangle, Missouri daylight cigar,
Oklahoma photos, California cigar, Oregon orbs, Washington
daylight disk, Canada sightings, Argentina mutilations,
President Bush in danger, Andrew Lavoie determines Roswell
photos taken at 4:15 PM. The "Search for Alien Life Evidence"
continues.

MARS HAS VAST OCEANS OF WATER ICE AND LIFE?

New data collected by the Mars Odyssey spacecraft now confirms
the existence of vast oceans of water ice just below the surface
of Mars. Based on my analysis of recent images coming from Mars,
and other intelligence information there is strong evidence that
intelligent life once existed on Mars and may continue to this
day as predicted in Filer's Files #9 (Feb 27, 2002). As a former
Air Force Intelligence officer my analysis is based on my
interpretation of the Mars spacecraft images that clearly showed
that there was water on Mars. Scientists often state where
there's water there is life? There is now scientific
confirmation of vast amounts Martian water. There is enough ice
to indicate that ancient oceans, and a warmer climate, might
have supported life. Scientists now confirm there is enough ice
to flood the Red Planet if it melted. A BBC news leak has
prompted a major science journal to lift its news embargo, and
scientists are now verifying preliminary findings. The journal
'Science' will publish findings on May 31, 2002, confirming
there is vast amount's of water. The scientists claim they have
extensive data confirming a layer of hydrogen across much of the
planet within three feet of the surface.

I also have confirmation of large amounts of heat being produced
underground and the ruins of geometric structures at the
surface. The heat correlates to areas suspected of having
underground geometric structures inferring metropolitan areas
may be present. A Martian civilization faced with diminishing
atmosphere, lower temperatures, and bombardment by meteors would
logically go underground for protection. My analysis of this
data indicates that intelligent life once existed on Mars, and
most likely went underground in the past and likely still
exists. Our own robots or astronauts traveling to Mars would be
able to use this water making Mars a more hospitable place. My
own interpretation of NASA images clearly indicates that life,
even advanced life forms have existed on Mars. See URLs:

http://space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_ice_020528.html=
 (Space.com)
http://www.filersfiles.com/files/2002/index.php?id=3D13, and
http://www.filersfiles.com/space/index.php

NEW YORK UFO SEEN BY SEPARATED WITNESSES

FARMINGDALE, LONG ISLAND -- On May 4, 2002, The witness said he
was driving east on Farmingdale Hemstead Turnpike approaching
Farmingdale and I looked up in the sky at 3:45 PM and saw a
trail, pretty fat trail in the shape of a circle, but the circle
was not complete, it was about three quarters of a circle, and
the trail just stopped there. At the end of it, I saw an object
it was moving but without leaving any trail. It was like an egg
shape object about the size of my thumb. I know it couldn't be a
plane because that circle it made was pretty small. The object
continue to travel in a straight line until it disappeared. It
was below the clouds, and it was a sunny day. There was no sound
at all. I pulled my car over during the sighting. It was a busy
afternoon, and other people didn't seem too interested, they
just went about their business without even looking up. As the
luminous trail evaporates it look like chain links.

SMITHTOWN, LONG ISLAND -- The law enforcement officer was
sitting in his car at a traffic light twenty miles northeast of
the above Long Island sighting fifteen minutes later at 4:00 PM,
and noticed something moving in the sky above him. The witness
states, "It was moving in a straight line from approx. WNW to
ESE and was viewed from about 60 degrees to directly overhead,
until it was obscured by the roof of my car." "Without any
reference points to determine size/height, I would guess that it
was somewhere between 300 to 600 feet in altitude. It's diameter
I can only describe by how much sky it blocked, that was like
holding up a penny at arm's length, so it was either relatively
close and small, or relatively high and large. I could not
discern which, although I am leaning toward the former. It's
speed, if the former is in fact correct, I would guestimate at
about 110 to 120 Knots (about the speed of a Cessna 172," said
the witness.

I could not tell its overall shape (whether it was a disk or
saucer) due to my looking up from almost directly below it. From
below, it was circular in outline. It did not appear to be
solid, but more like a ring. It was the exact color of the very
clear, blue sky. At the risk of sounding crazy, I would have to
say that it was invisible/transparent, with a slight darkness
around the edges. What I did see was a wake of whitish blurring
sky moving along with it, following it's trajectory, as well as
a larger blurry wake, being pushed in front? There was also a
somewhat darker white blurring towards the sides. I can only
liken it to when a ship is cutting through the ocean, as it's
bow pushes through the water, it creates a white foam in front
of the ship as the bow parts the water. The foam travels around
both sides of the ship, and then rejoins at the stern, and then
leaves more foam behind. Other than these "wakes," the object
was not visible. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director National
Reporting Center http://www.ufocenter.com

Editor's Notes: Two quality witnesses saw a similar UFO only
fifteen minutes apart. Videos taken from the space shuttle show
that UFOs often use the Long Island corridor particularly in
late afternoon moving at high speed. Various security cameras
mounted on buildings should pick up the visitors.

FLORIDA RED LIGHT AND MISSING TIME

THONOTOSASSA -- The witness reports, "I went to sleep on May 5,
2002, I woke up and could not move and it felt like a dream, but
then I got out of bed and went to the red light and put my hand
on it and it was still there." "I went outside at 4:03 AM, and
came straight back and know I was on it for five minutes at the
most. I came back in at 4:25 AM, and this isn't the first time
this has happened. Every night at 4:00 AM, I wake up. This will
go on 3 to 5 times a year. Please help. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

KENTUCKY METEOR?

PADUCAH --The observation occurred in bright daylight in the
afternoon at 4:15 PM, on May 9, 2002. The witness states, "I was
traveling north in a vehicle at 5 mph and observed a meteor-type
falling object in the north sky. Initial sighting was at 30
degrees above the horizon and it was falling left to right or
west to east at 10 degrees from vertical. The object was silver
to white and was brightest immediately before it disappeared at
10 degrees above the horizon. In checking with the Regional
National weather station the following day, they had other
similar reports of the same meteor-like object, one from a
location 50 miles to the north. I am curious as to what I
observed, since nothing has been reported in the local media.

(NUFORC Note: Other sightings reported from Indiana and Illinois
indicate a possible meteor.} "The State Journal-Register,"
Sangemon County, Illinois: by JAYETTE BOLINSKI staff writer
states, "Sangamon County authorities received more than a dozen
calls Thursday afternoon PM, on May 5, 2002, of brilliant,
firelike streaks in the eastern sky -- a daytime meteor shower
that is rare but not unheard of, according to a local
astronomer. "It's certainly possible to see a meteor during the
day if it's large enough or bright enough," said Charles
Schweighauser, professor of astronomy and physics at the
University of Illinois at Springfield. Commonly referred to as
shooting stars, meteors are tiny particles that orbit the sun
and typically are no larger than a grain of sand. The particles
are called meteoroids once they enter the Earth's atmosphere.
They become visible, rarely for more than a few seconds, because
friction between the particle and air molecules creates a blue
or white glow. Jayette Bolinski jayette.bolinski@sj-r.com.
Copyright 2002, The State Journal-Register
http://www.sj-r.com/news/Friday/f.htm

ILLINOIS LIGHT GREW TO FULL MOON BRILLIANCE

WESTERN SPRINGS -- It was Monday evening on May 6, 2002, around
9:10 PM, when the witness facing west and looking straight up
noticed a satellite slowly creep in a straight line across the
sky directly overhead. The witness states, "Being so close to
Chicago, star visibility is rather poor, I can see the Big
Dipper, some planets and a few bright stars and I have a knack
for spotting satellites." I'll pick it up in plain site and try
and follow it across the whole sky until it fades out of view.
"The one on Monday was something I never saw before, I thought I
spotted a satellite, a pinpoint of light just moving in a
straight line north to south, this time, and 2 seconds after I
spotted it, it began to slowly grow in white brilliance, he
said. "I immediately thought this thing was entering the
atmosphere and the 'glint' on this object got to be as bright as
a full moon, and I noticed I had to squint it was so bright."
.."Suddenly the light contracted and continued its straight line
course, returned to its normal illuminated pinpoint of light and
faded out. If this is a satellite (or ISS) it is glinting the
sun in certain positions that are really going to freak people
out. Thanks to NUFORC

WISCONSIN LOW FLYING TRIANGLE.

MOSINEE -- Two witnesses were driving down the road at 9:15 PM,
on May 13, 2002, when they looked up and saw two bright white
lights above a field. The witness states, "As we got closer, we
saw there was a red flickering light in the middle, so we pulled
over and watched whatever it was and it looked like it hovered."
Then it took off back toward town. I rolled down the window and
listened and it sounded somewhat like a lawn mower. We turned
around and followed it and drove about 55 or 60 mph and it was
speeding way ahead of us. We thought it might be a plane because
there was an airport (Central Wisconsin Airport) that way but
couldn't figure out why it was so low and why it was going so
fast. As we kept going, we saw it hovering over a field again.
We saw that it looked triangular and somewhat flat. We pulled
over and watched and it took off once again and we saw yellow
lights now. As we followed it back the other way, it looked like
it dipped and crossed the road and hovered about 60 feet above a
house. We caught up again, pulled over and again it took off
very fast and looked like it landed in a field up ahead, but it
was too fast to see where it went or landed. Thanks to NUFORC.

MICHIGAN THREE LIGHTS ON THE REAR CREATING A TRIANGLE

HOLLAND -- I saw two very powerful lights at 10:45 PM, on May
13, 2002, coming from what appeared to be the back of some sort
of craft. It was in the sky and maybe about 600 feet from the
ground. The lights resembled a pair of very bright car
headlights. The craft was heading south and to the west a
little. I was driving at the time, heading south, and was on a
road with very little traffic, so I could speed up and try to
get closer to it. I sped up to try to get closer and it appeared
to be slowing down. I kept watching it and when I became
parallel to it I pulled over and turned off my car. The lights
were coming from the back of the craft and there were no lights
on the front. There was a less bright light above the two,
creating a triangle of three lights. It was making some noise
and the closest thing I could compare the noise to was a high
pitch radio frequency. I watched it briefly and after about 60
seconds it slowed almost to a stop. It began to go straight up
and turn directly around and went towards the north again. I
tried to follow it again and it quickly drifted to the west and
I no longer could see it. The witness says, "I have never
previously seen any objects I believe to be UFOs first hand. I
was not on any hallucinogens or drugs at the time of the
sighting and I am convinced that what I saw was definitely real
- I wasn't just imagining something. NUFORC Note: Peter
Davenport spoke with this witness at some length, and we found
him to be seemingly serious-minded and credible.

Editor's Note: Multiple witnesses in two states appear to be
describing the same vehicle about one hour and thirty minutes
apart and 200 miles away across Lake Michigan. If the craft flew
a direct course it would have passed through two restricted
areas.

MISSOURI CIGAR

KANSAS CITY -- A MUFON-investigator reports that on May 13,
2002, at 1:22 PM, a coworker saw a cigar shaped object in the
sky over North Kansas City. The cigar was silver in color and
passed over 701 Parkway near Highway 9 at 1:22 PM, in the
daylight sky. The object was traveling northwest about 1,000 to
5,000 feet altitude. My nephew was in the military a few years
ago and is a trained professional in the art of identification.
Thanks to MUFON investigator, ID#7606 and NUFORC.

OKLAHOMA PHOTOS

FORT SILL -- Jim Hickman reports that on May 20, 2002, "TJ" was
out on the Quanah Range on Fort Sill earlier tonight, and saw
the strangest objects in the sky that he ever saw! TJ reports,
"The nature of my job requires that I carry a camera in my
vehicle for documenting accidents and incidents on Fort Sill
training areas, so I was able to get a picture of the objects."
When I got home, I started searching the web trying to figure
out who I should report this to, since I'm definitely NOT going
to report this to the military authorities. If I did I'd
probably end my career real fast. When I came across your
website I almost fell out of my chair! The Lawton Triangle
picture is almost exactly like the objects I saw, and Lawton is
just south of Fort Sill where I saw these objects! Is this
bizarre or what? TJ continues, "I was looking west when I first
spotted the objects low to the ground behind some tall trees."
At first I thought they were the lights from military vehicles.
"Then suddenly these lights shot straight up in the sky and just
hovered for a minute or so." I just sat there dumbfounded for a
moment when it suddenly dawned on me that I should take a
picture.

MUFON's Dr Bruce Maccabee's comments on the new photo: "WOW! Got
to pull out all the stops on this one! A rare event, two photos
of the same (apparently) thing! The numbers of lights at the
corners may agree (do agree at two corners) and the shape of the
red "car" is as I had predicted (the left and right outlines of
the "car" in the Lawton photo would be the actual shapes of the
left and right sides of the red UFO image if photographed
without camera smear)." Thanks to Jim Hickman Research
Specialist. See photo's at: www.thehickmanreport.com.

CALIFORNIA LOW FLYING CIGAR

SILVER LAKE, LOS ANGELES -- The witness and room mate were in
their apartment on May 8, 2002, at 9:20 PM, when they heard a
loud helicopter engine type sound. The witness states, "I went
on to the balcony to see what the helicopter was doing and saw
the red lights of the helicopter with something flying next to
it." "The thing next to it was hard to see, it had no lights on
but there was clearly the outline of some type of flying machine
that was flying next to the helicopter moving northeast over the
City of Glendale. "It went to the point where I could no longer
see the cigar, just the red lights of the helicopter. Then I saw
the red lights coming closer, heading southwest from Glendale.
Soon the object came back into view, and it was clear that it
was a cigar shaped object, similar in shape and form to that of
a Boeing 737 without lights. "I could see the silhouette
traveling through the bright night city sky and yelled for my
room mate to come and look. He saw it and became excited and
suggested we go to the roof. There were now two helicopters
following it. It went over the area not far from Glendale's
Forest Lawn cemetery. There was a marine layer in the air and I
could see the object go through the low clouds as it made it's
way southwest towards downtown. It continued in the direction of
downtown Los Angeles and was lost behind a hill. Phone calls to
the local police and media brought no answers. (NUFORC spoke
with this witness, and found him to be quite credible. PD)

OREGON SAUCER WITH MANY LIGHTS

MCMINNVILLE -- It was midnight, on May 7, 2002, when the two
witnesses heard an annoying sound like someone had left a radio
on low. My Mom asked me to go check it out and I went to my
bedroom which is at the other side of our apartment and could
hear the sound louder and clearer. I then looked outside but
could see nothing. My Mom looked up above a house nearby to see
a saucer shaped craft spinning and hovering with red, blue and
some green lights around the whole craft. The saucer hovered
there for about five minutes and all of a sudden it just hovered
down quickly and disappeared without a trace. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC http://www.ufocenter.com

WASHINGTON SHINY DAYLIGHT DISK

SEATTLE -- At approximately 3:45 PM, on May 5, 2002, the witness
saw something shiny in the corner of his eye as he was eating
lunch on the 18th floor of a downtown Seattle building. The
witness says, "I was looking south toward Safeco Field when I
realized that what I was seeing was NOT a plane, it looked like
a tin can in the wind, except it looked in control and it varied
in speed." "It hovered like a helicopter at times. "It was black
on top and very shiny (almost like a mirror) on the bottom. I
thought it might be the stealth fighter. Once it got to West
Seattle, it shot up straight from about 5,000 feet to at least
35,000 feet. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was NOT a
plane, nor the stealth, nor some weather balloon. This thing
then zigzagged and must have flipped backwards. It then shot up
again, probably another 5-10,000 feet. I could see it's black
speck hovering for about 10 minutes. Then it just followed the
cloud formations back towards downtown Seattle heading east,
very slow. I'm a student at the University of Washington and a
runner who doesn't take drugs or make stuff up. In fact, I'd say
I'm a good citizen who strives to better not only my life but
the lives of others as well. What I saw was incredible and
exiting, but very unexplainable and a bit scary too. Thanks to
NUFORC

CANADA LIGHTS SEEN BY PILOTS

HAMILTON ONTARIO TO WINNIPEG -- Further investigation of the May
9, 2002, night sighting at an altitude of 28,000 feet, reveals
three objects were seen in the sky at 4:20 AM, by the three crew
members in the cockpit operating the flight. The objects were
round with bright white lights and each had a long trail of
white light turning to red with some blue. Air Traffic Control
had nothing on the radar but another aircraft reported that they
saw the same thing. The other aircraft was at 39,000 feet and to
them the objects seemed to be at that altitude, whereas to us it
seemed to be at our altitude of 28,000 feet. After 1 or 2
minutes the objects suddenly vanished. Peter Davenport spoke
with the pilot at length, and found him to be an exceptionally
qualified observer. They probably witnessed Russian space debris
returning through the atmosphere.
http://www.spaceref.com/redirect.ref?url=3Dwww.aero.org/cords/&id=3D
1634

WINNIPEG -- A witness on the ground reports that on May 9, 2002,
he saw flashing orbs of light, consisting of five colors, bright
white, deep blue, amber, bright red, and deep green! They were
in a circular pattern directly above at 6:00 PM! They were too
high to be a weather balloon, and it wasn't a plane, because
there was no tail from fuel burn off, and no noise what so ever!
This object stayed in one spot and did not move and each light
would flash at different intervals, never simultaneously! The
biggest light was the red one in the center. I was down by the
Assiniboine River, and there's no way it was any kind of
reflection! It kept flashing different lights at different times
for 35 minutes before it disappeared!

ARGENTINA ANOTHER MUTILATED ANIMAL FOUND

LA PAMPA --Diario "La Arena" reports on May 23, 2002, that
another cow turned up dead in a very strange way in a field of
the General Acha region. As in two previous cases, the animal
was bloodless and was missing some organs. No traces were found
in the place and the causes of these deaths remain a source of
mystery to investigators. During the recent discovery, despite
the fact that the animal had been dead for days in the outdoors,
it had not yet putrefied. Mystery struck once more in a local
field: the latest event occurred in the "El Huitr=FA" farm some 70
km. from this city near provincial highways 115 and 18, where a
dead cow was found with characteristics similar to the first
two. It was bloodless and was missing an eye, jaw and tongue.
Authorities were unable to find a perpetrator for the crime.
Roque Ceferino Estepa, reported that the cattleman claimed that
between 18:00 hrs of the 14th and 17:00 hrs. of the 15th of May,
he had found one of his 3 years old Aberdeen Angus cows weighing
450 kilograms--mutilated by persons unknown.

Cattleman Dario Garcia alleged that the cow had been found
completely exsanguinated, without a tongue, left ear, jaw, an
eye, its udders and vital organs missing Incisions were made
with sharp hot objects, and the animal's fat was still warm, but
there were no traces of blood on the spot. Police under the
command of Officer Lucero established themselves in the field
together with veterinarian Juan Manuel Orterdag, who analyzed
the strange death. This is the third animal to have been found
mutilated, which places a shroud of mystery over the police
investigation. The same happened only a few days ago at a ranch
in the vicinity of Salliquelo, where police investigation has
still been unable to find an answer. Thanks to Scott Corrales,
Institute of Hispanic Ufology Translation (C) 2002. and Gloria
R. Coluchi.

Editor's Notes: Similar reports are coming in from Oregon, US of
cattle mutilations.  It is my opinion that some cattle
mutilations are tied to UFO sightings. The ground below the
animal is often crystallized, contains meteorite dust, laser
like cutting is present, key organs are missing, the blood is
drained but the body contains hemoglobin residue. Hemoglobin is
the red coloring matter of the red blood corpuscles that carries
oxygen from the lungs to the tissues and carbon dioxide from the
tissues to the lungs. Pure hemoglobin like that often found at
the site of mutilations normally requires a laboratory to be
produced. We can assume that our alien visitors require
hemoglobin.

ANDORRA UFO VIDEO TAPED

An amateur cameraman took an hour video of a UFO over Andorra a
small European principality nestled in the Pyrenees between
France and Spain, The luminous object seen over Andorra on the
evening of April 22, 2002, has generated interest among
specialists who have examined the material to be presented by an
amateur videographer. Many persons have seen the phenomenon and
this newsroom has received reports on the daytime presence of
strange lights in the area formed by Escaldes, la Massana and
Ordino. The explanation given is that the image shows the
planets, weather balloons, satellites, or the Space Station. A
stratospheric balloon measuring 100 meters in diameter launched
over the Pyrenees may be responsible for the video. Thanks to El
Periodic d' Andorra May 27, 2002, and Scott Corrales, Institute
of Hispanic Ufology Translation (C) 2002.

GERMANY PRESIDENT BUSH IN DANGER

BERLIN -- Victor Kean writes, "I live in Spandau, and our
riverside apartment is two miles south of the normal flight path
into Tegel Airport in Berlin. On Wednesday evening at 20:00 hrs
CET, I was watching TV which was showing the Press coverage and
reception awaiting President George W. Bush. The ETA of "Air
Force One" had been published in our newspapers as between 20:00
hrs and 20:30 hrs. Looking out of a window I spotted the easily
identifiable "Air Force One" in its two tone blue and white
livery at a low altitude and speed as it followed the normal
flight path into the Airport at 20:06 hrs. It occurred to me
that it as I was able to know at what time and in which
direction to look, so could a terrorist! A Ground to Air missile
could have easily brought down "Air Force One" which, as you
know was carrying Colin Powell and many others in the
President's entourage. I sent an E-mail to the 'White House
Security' staff in Berlin the following morning suggesting that
at least they could have routed "Air Force One" to approach
Berlin from some other direction. Your President talks about the
"War on Terrorism"...."Air Force One" should at least be
camouflaged! Thanks to Victor Kean

ROSWELL CRASH DEBRIS PHOTOS

There has been one question about the photographs that James
Bond Johnson took on the afternoon of July 8,1947 in General
Roger Ramey's office at Fort Worth Army Air Field that has so
far remained unanswered. Exactly when during that afternoon were
they taken? There have been many diverse opinions but little
solid evidence of the precise time, even Bond himself can only
remember the sequence of events and not their timing. I now
believe the RPIT can give a firm answer to this question through
new research carried out in the last few weeks. It has been
known for some time that in the Fort Worth (FW) images Bond
Johnson not only captured the scene within Ramey's office, but
also in some of the pictures he captured the scene outside the
office through the gap in the curtains of the window seen in the
images. It was known some time ago that parts of a car can be
made out through this narrow gap, interesting but it seemed of
little use at the time and in most prints of the FW pictures
these details are extremely vague as the window scene is usually
very over exposed. A few weeks ago, by chance I was looking
through the scans of the Ramey-DuBose FW image that were
obtained by Stanton Friedman. For those who are not aware of
these scans and what they contain, they are high resolution drum
scans of the original Ramey-DuBose negative held by the
University of Texas Library at Arlington and were targeted at
the Ramey Message area of the negative. But a couple of general
lower resolution scans were made of the whole negative and it
was these I was browsing. Some of the whole negative scans
appear to be tests, and one in particular is very dark which
detracts from the debris content of the image but as I noticed,
gives quite good detail of the external view through the gap in
the window curtains and as I examined the view, I realized this
was the best detail I had seen yet of this area, I also realized
I was looking in pretty good detail of a car's number plate and
fender, a very distinctive combination. Bond Johnson's memories
of July 8th were also easily confirmed, he recalled a hot sunny
day and sure enough the car appears in bright sunshine with a
noticeable shadow. It was at this point I stopped and realized I
was looking at the time of the picture shoot. The fender and
it's shadow made a crude but accurate "sun dial." We knew the
location of the picture so all we had to do was obtain a sun
table for Fort Worth on the 8th July 1947 and then match the
angle cast by the fender with the table to obtain the time the
picture was taken. Canadian RPIT member Andrew Lavoie already
had computer modeling software set up for analyzing the FW
pictures so I contacted him with the idea of measuring the
shadow angle, he thought it possible to do. By this time I had
also tracked down what I thought the make and model of the car
who's fender is seen in the image.

With this additional information Andrew refined his "model" to
obtain as accurate a time as possible. The car seen through
Ramey's window is a 1941 Buick Century Series 60, only this
Series had the unique fender/plate combination seen in the
images, the Series 60 was widely used by the US military as a
staff car and would not be out of place on a mlitary base such
as FWAAF. We might also be able to refined this a little further
as what seems to be the rear window of the car is seen in the
RameyAlone image. This is quite a poor quality view as the only
examples I have are from prints and not a drum scanner as with
Stanton's scans. This apparent rear window also has what seem to
be unique features and in this case they were limited to the
"Sedanette" sub model of the Century Series 60 1941 Buick. With
the image information and additional engineering information of
car itself, Andrew has been able to narrow down the timeframe
for the RameyDubose image to a 20 minute slot between 4.05 PM
and 4.25 PM Fort Worth time, July 8th 1947. Significantly this
not only tells us when the image was taken, but also the time
the Ramey Message was being read by Gen Ramey and places it and
it's contents firmly in the Roswell Timeline in that 20 min
time-slot. Our thanks go out to Andrew Lavoie for all his work
in this research. Andrew has placed an illustrated summery of
his research on his website located at:
http://pages.sprint.ca/RPITCANADA_1/files/rdb_photo_shoot_001.ht
m. Thanks to Neil Morris neil@adm1.man.ac.uk.

"Search for Alien Life Evidence" (SALE).is starting to get
donations to search the Roswell crash sites and expand Air
Victory Museum UFO exhibit. Send donations to: "Air Victory
Museum Filer Fund," Air Victory Museum, Stacey Haines Road,
Medford, NJ 08055.

THE UFO STORE -- Your purchases at the UFO Store will help pay
for UFO research. Go for the widest selection of UFO books, CDs,
and videos on the net at: http://www.filersfiles.com.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and
comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send
your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically
grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please
state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story
confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND
REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George Filer











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   May > May 30

               'Shockingly Close to the Truth' - A One Minute

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:34:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:37:03 -0400
Subject: 'Shockingly Close to the Truth' - A One Minute


Book Review:

'Shockingly Close to the Truth: Confessions of a Grave-Robbing
Ufologist', is a yawn-filled romp through the askewed ego of
Ufoologist, James W. Moseley and his Klass successor wannabee,
Karl T. Pflock.

Within this mish-mash of drool are some excellent passages,
especially the Kal K. Korff experience, whereby Moseley relates
that this 'arrogant', snot-nosed twerp makes a shambles of his
beloved NUFORK (why does NUFORC always sound like an expletive?)
extravaganza in San Francisco and Kal the Korff becomes a one-
person convention unto himself to satisfy his own Id
requirements.

Insights into Moseley's love affair with publishing a cheap dime
store news rag, abounds, along with his propensity to sleeze to
any level for a buck...which, he readily admits he isn't very
good at accomplishing. But, like the proverbial brain damaged
dog, continues unabated as the decades click onward and good
trees are sacrificed to put out a bad product.

Ah, but for the sleeze factor, 'Shockingly Close to the Truth'
remains a one man quest for insignificance, which is wonderfully
accomplished for a trendy price. For the cost you get a cartoon-
  laded dust jacket appropriate for bathroom joke book covers and
type font so small that Prometheus Books must surely be on the
skids, since it's obvious they needed to do something to save
paper. Kind of makes me wonder if the CISCOPS cult is losing
membership since 9-11.

Moseley moseys around in his diary (do real men really keep
diaries?) to relate personal thrilling episodes of his quest for
ufological truth, all the while pandering his antiquities
business every fourth paragraph and confuses the history of
ufology with Peruvian scams. This tome is either a cross between
an attempt at history from a personal perspective of a rich kid,
or a series of grade B commericals. I still don't have a clue.

Co-author, Karl T. Pflock's wit and wisdom isn't lost within the
pages of 'Shockingly Close to the Truth'. Moseley let him have a
few licks at the crumbs of his expertise. However, Karl's minute
portion of the book has neither wit nor wisdom, but heavily
pounds his drum in support of his own tome. After reading about
Moseley's constant complaints of having money woes, I wonder how
much of a 'Love Offering' Karl had to slip Moseley to get his
name on the cover? Well, whatever.

If you can forego buying toliet paper for a month or so, spend
it on 'Shockingly Close to the Truth'. It definitely will keep
your expenses for Ex Lax to a bare minumum and once you have
finished reading the off-course ramblings of this 'Grave-Robbing
Ufologist', it will be a nifty book to support the broken leg on
your sofa for a year or so.

Overall, 'Shockingly Close to the Truth' is an interesting read
until Jean Auel's new book arrives later in the year. It
definitely fills in some of the ufological blanks that many of
us have at the bottom of our ufology lists.

Now, to put this puppy on Ebay to see if I can reclaim a few
cents of my investment.

Wendy Connors

Book Review #3

Permission Granted to Post Far and Wide...Moseley's too inept to
use a computer, so he won't know. <G>








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   May > May 30

             CCCRN News: Hay Circles - Duncan, British Columbia

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:20:55 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:41:56 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: Hay Circles - Duncan, British Columbia


CCCRN NEWS
The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

May 30, 2002

_____________________________


CROP WATCH 2002

HAY CIRCLES - DUNCAN, BRITISH COLUMBIA

Report received yesterday of four circles in a hay field in
Duncan, British Columbia (on Vancouver Island). Found morning of
May 28. Largest circle approximately  6 meters (20 feet)
diameter, second about 3 meters (10 feet) and two smaller ones.
Somewhat irregular, with hay flattened in one direction and a
small 'vortex' in one of the circles. Hay is approximately three
feet high. No tracks seen going into the circles when first
found. Reportedly not seen there the day before. Further details
pending.

This is the first report for 2002.

Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including
field investigations/ground studies of formations, aerial
surveillance and farming/media awareness initiatives, in
particular during the prime August/September 'circle season' on
the Canadian prairies

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
psa@look.ca

To unsubscribe, send an e-mail with Unsubscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:

psa@look.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and
scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma.

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel/Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

=A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002







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   May > May 31

               Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud -

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:38:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:27:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud -


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:27:09 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud

 >I've written for years that hoaxers who don't even gain should
 >be fined and jailed (...because they disturb the peace!).
 >Hoaxers who _gain_ are candidates for chemical castration, just
 >for starters, to take their sociopathic edge off, imco."

The Reed hoax probably wouldn't have gained any attention if it
hadn't been for those who promoted him on national radio, at
conferences, etc.  Reed was not the only one to benefit from his
hoax.

Boycott the enablers.


A. Hebert








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   May > May 31

                Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:35:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:35:51 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Hale



 >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:10:47 +0000
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

<snip>

 >Since the general public never sees UFO news, any interest
 >is stifled before it can bloom. Polls show there is quite a bite
 >of interest by the public.

Hi Eleanor,

How correct you are.

TV has one aim in a modern western society, I shall spell it out
M-O-N-E-Y.

You will find that a lot of interest, from a media-perspective,
is one that is usually private funded and has a sole aim of
widening the debate on the topic, I know this through a lot of
interest still continuing within the crop circle footage arena.
Try and get hold of a copy of 'Contact'by Bert Jansen & Janet
Osbard - Holland.

I am beginning to think that some people actually welcome the
less attention on UFOs within the mainstream media, as they have
not really done the UFO debate much good over the years,
ridicule being one of the favourite tools, so let the real media
study flourish without the spotlight, for now at least.

And to counter the hardened sceptics out there who say that UFOs
are not headline news, then what about the recent Front Page &
Centre pages 'scoop' in the Daily Mail, by Andy Roberts & Dave
Clarke, on the Royal UFO Connection, and M.o.D, a real? A
surprising piece of UFO Front Page Headline News!!


Roy..








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   May > May 31

                         Writers & UFO Experiences?

From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:48:40 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:37:59 -0400
Subject: Writers & UFO Experiences?


Dear List,

I am trying to find as many references as possible to writers of
literature (novels, poems or prose) that have had, or who claim
to have had, or are said to have had, ufological experiences.

For this project I don't mind if they only saw comets and marsh
gas, as long as they left some kind of written testimony, so
writers from all periods interest me.


Thanks for your help,

Chris Aubeck








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                     Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Woods

From: Michael J. Woods <mike.woods@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:31:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:49:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Woods


 >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:27:58 -0500
 >Subject: Re: 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Michael Woods <mike.woods@sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Media Not Covering Up
 >>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 19:29:58 -0400

<snip>

Dear Lan,

 >Maybe the press operates by different rules in Canada. That
 >certainly isn't true in the States. Former Congressman Gary
 >Condit, for example, was virtually found guilty of murder by the
 >press here without much in the way of evidence.

First, I agree with you and, yes, the media does operate by way
different rules up here. As the result of an on-going scandal
with our current fedreral government over the awarding of
various contracts, our Deputy-Prime Minister is suggesting an
independent ethics council for the media... while there isn't
such a thing for elected-officials.

In crime reporting, where I do most of my work, the differences
are literally night and day. For example... a perfectly
acceptable sentence for a TV news report in Detroit could read:

"Prosecutors say Gary Francis, arrested after an armed stand-
off, allegedly gunned down all 16 victims."

In Canada, even if he was caught with a smoking gun in his hand,
if I ran that sentence its' 50-50 whether he'd sue or just get a
mis-trial and a get-out-of-jail-free card. Libel-chill in this
country is a far greater threat than it is in the U.S. ... the
truth of the statement isn't always good enough!

 >A few years ago several police officers in different
 >jurisdictions in Illinois reported a fairly remarkable UFO
 >travelling over a large region between Illinois and Missouri.

No question. A major case, that should have gotten major
coverage. For the little good it did, (again no video that I
could access) I did run the story on Breakfast Televison, as a
copy story... even had the anchors do a serious chat about its
significance.

 >Have you read 'The Missing Times'? It describes a few nuances in
 >the situation. Some regional and local small-town papers do, in
 >fact, do a reasonable job of covering UFO stories. It's the
 >national media (TV networks, the New York Times, etc.), that do
 >an abysmal job of it.

I asume the thrust of 'The Missing Times' is that through
government pressure and or business collusion there's concerted
effort to keep UFOs out of the media. Did a pretty poor job with
the Fox Network, between the X-Files, Sightings, even the Alien
Autopsy (Quelch those flames right now... I'm not saying anything
about A-A one way or the other) although don't press me to be
completely convinced those were 100 % good.

And we're living in a multi-channel universe. While the
government could be leaning on the networks and the Times - I'm
convinced CBS has been a branch of U.S. government propaganda on
at least two major issues - the fact remains that the average
journalist... especially the TV breed have monster-egos. If
they've sufficent proof of the existence of aliens, they
couldn't keep silent unless they were dead because the story is
so massive - the rewards would be breath-taking. Virtually any
journalist... print, radio or TV, would likely sell their mother
into slavery to get the story out and collect the goodies
generated thereby.

 >I've never gotten the impression that TV news operates that way.
 >In the US, there's a saying about how TV news stations decide
 >what to cover that's a bit different than Sagan's lofty if
 >ambiguous standards of evidence: "if it bleeds it leads."

I led with my chin there and now I'm bleeding... I blush and
hang me head when I say that is just as true here as there.
_I've_ told rookies "If it bleeds, it leads...", so they can
focus in faster. But remember, the media also operates under the
principal of not letting the facts get in the way of a good
story... and if we had a little something to back those UFO
claims... its such a _good_ story.


Mike








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              NYT Sells Public Domain UFO Photos For $375 Each

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 03:37:55 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:06:23 -0400
Subject: NYT Sells Public Domain UFO Photos For $375 Each


Source: Subterranean Homepage News by Sheila Lennon,

http://www.projo.com/technology/shenews/

Stig

***

Subterranean Homepage News

by Sheila Lennon

'Bottom-up' journalism from the pros

May 30, 2002

**

NYT sells public domain UFO (?) photos for $375 each: A print of
the photo, shot July 16, 1952 by Shel Alpert, a USCG seaman on
duty in the Coast Guard Weather Office at the Salem (Mass.)
Coast Guard Station, can be seen and bought (11" x 14" print:
$195 ($173.55 for home delivery subscribers); 16" x 20" print:
$375 ($333.75 for subscribers).

Military photos belong to the taxpayers; they are in the public
domain. Nevertheless, the Times has its watermark on the photo.

Slate:

http://slate.msn.com/?id66282

'How To Tell the New York Times from the Weekly World News',
called the Coast Guard historian's office, which confirmed that
prints of the flying-saucer photo are available at the cost of
reproduction, which is about $15.

But what really upsets Slate is that the Times calls it a
"historical photo" and captions it "Flying Saucers in Salem,
Mass., 1952" without putting quotes around "Flying Saucers".
Indeed, the page about this incident at Massachusetts MUFON -
Mutual UFO Network - :

http://members.aol.com/MassMUFON/histcas2.html

relates that Alpert saw "four brilliant lights in the sky."

<snip>

Copyright, Belo Interactive, Inc.









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                  Mortellaro & Hopkins On Rense - 06-06-02

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:02:31 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:20:58 -0400
Subject: Mortellaro & Hopkins On Rense - 06-06-02


Jim Mortellaro and Budd Hopkins will appear on the Jeff Rense
Show on June 6, 2002, at 10:00 p.m., Eastern Daylight Time. Jim
will be discussing his most recent and other abduction
experiences and the ground-breaking medical study, in progress.

Budd Hopkins will reveal facts uncovered during Jim Mortellaro's
regression with Budd as well as events similar to Jim's
experiences.

The Rense Show Archives are easy to access if the live-show is
unavailable and can be listened to via the free Web-audio
streamer, 'RealPlayer'.


Jim Mortellaro, Sr.








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               Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud -

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:44:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:26:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud -


 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:27:09 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud

 >>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:14:37 -0700
 >>Subject: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud

 >>POSSIBLE LEGAL ACTION PENDING IN REED UFO FRAUD
 >>Investigation Continues Into Financial Aspects of Fraud, Reports
 >>Being Taken At Website For Class Action Lawsuit

<snip>

 >http://www.alientrack.com

<snip>

 >On May 10th I wrote the following and hope that I had some small
 >part in the genisis of the idea.

 >"These guys made some money, didn't they? Was that gain a result
 >of fraud? Isn't there a law against that? Is class action
 >possible do you suppose? I didn't follow it too closely for
 >obvious reasons, but flim flam's flim flam... can a complaint be
 >sworn against these men?

 >I've written for years that hoaxers who don't even gain should
 >be fined and jailed (...because they disturb the peace!).
 >Hoaxers who _gain_ are candidates for chemical castration, just
 >for starters, to take their sociopathic edge off, imco."


Hi Alfred,

Actually, the Alien Track website has been up for some time now.
The idea of a lawsuit, against these clowns, came up some time
ago. I personally think there should be more of these actions
taking place. It sure would discourage these idiots from
thinking its okay to waltz on in and start lying...

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM








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              CCCRN News: Grass Formations - Mansfield, Ontario

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 05:08:53 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:34:25 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: Grass Formations - Mansfield, Ontario


CCCRN NEWS
The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

May 31, 2002

_____________________________


CROP WATCH 2002

GRASS FORMATIONS - MANSFIELD, ONTARIO; DUNCAN UPDATE

Report received yesterday of unusual non-circular flattened areas
in tall grass, '5 to 10 square meters (54 to 110 square feet) in size',
in a remote agricultural area, found May 30. Grass is bent, not killed.
Landowner (with a background in physics) reports this has happened
in previous years as well, including in a lilly patch, with lilly plants=
 bent
in a sweeping rotational pattern. Thanks to Mark Fussell for his
assistance with this report. Further details pending.

This is the second report for 2002.

There is also a report of additional 'rings' at Duncan, British Columbia,
since the initial report yesterday. Further details pending.


Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including field
investigations / ground studies of formations, aerial surveillance
and farming / media awareness initiatives, in particular during the
prime August / September 'circle season' on the Canadian prairies

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
  Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free
to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
psa@look.ca

To unsubscribe, send an e-mail with Unsubscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
psa@look.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and
scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma.

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

=A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002






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                       SDI - 189 On 'Global National'

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:29:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:29:30 -0400
Subject: SDI - 189 On 'Global National'

The video-clip is archived at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/

in the Program 189 cell and can be accessed by clicking
the 'Play' button there. The .rm file is a tad over 6 Megs.

The thrust of the piece ties in with the 'SDI - 190' thread
that's currently causing a fair amount of traffic here.


ebk







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                        Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys'

From: Erik Landahl <cubman1@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:08:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:00:52 -0400
Subject: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys'


For early interviews with Bill Uhouse on his alleged work with
greys at Area 51, see the following articles by Glenn Campbell,
'The Story of Jarod', 'Jarod's Simulator', and More Details
 From Jarod', respectively.

http://www.aliensonearth.com/area51/desertrat/1995/dr24/

http://www.aliensonearth.com/area51/desertrat/1995/dr27/

http://www.aliensonearth.com/area51/desertrat/1995/dr28/








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               Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:33:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:04:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud -


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud
 >Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:38:28 -0500

 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:27:09 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud

 >>I've written for years that hoaxers who don't even gain should
 >>be fined and jailed (...because they disturb the peace!).
 >>Hoaxers who _gain_ are candidates for chemical castration,just
 >>for starters, to take their sociopathic edge off, imco."

 >The Reed hoax probably wouldn't have gained any attention if it
 >hadn't been for those who promoted him on national radio, at
 >conferences, etc. Reed was not the only one to benefit from his
 >hoax.

 >Boycott the enablers.

I won't defend a co-conspirator, of course, but the ability to
parse the enabler from the co-conspirator can be difficult to
do. EBK (myself or even you) can be taken in by hoaxer just as
easily as the other hoaxed and earn, for their trouble,
innocence and journalistic bravery, your boycott? Then we get
_no_ unfiltered information. The "enabler" has a bigger voice
and a wider reach and is, many times, the only reason we get the
information we get, at all. No -- to keep the facilitators,
like EBK, in business they can't be made to pay the freight of a
lying sociopath until they collude in the lie... then they
_earn_ their candidacy for chemical castration and punitive
removal from the journalistic gene pool..... <g>


Lehmberg@snowhill.com

~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the scabrously specious scurrilous.







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               Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:47:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:07:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud -


 >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:44:01 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud

 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:27:09 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud

 >>>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:14:37 -0700
 >>>Subject: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud

 >>>POSSIBLE LEGAL ACTION PENDING IN REED UFO FRAUD
 >>>Investigation Continues Into Financial Aspects of Fraud, Reports
 >>>Being Taken At Website For Class Action Lawsuit

 ><snip>

 >>http://www.alientrack.com

 ><snip>

 >>On May 10th I wrote the following and hope that I had some small
 >>part in the genisis of the idea.

<snip>

 >Actually, the Alien Track website has been up for some time now.
 >The idea of a lawsuit, against these clowns, came up some time
 >ago.

Rats.<g> I'd already fooled myself into thinking that I'd
done something substantive! <g>

 >I personally think there should be more of these actions
 >taking place. It sure would discourage these idiots from
 >thinking its okay to waltz on in and start lying...

Amen, Mr. Myers. Disturbers of the peace, wolf criers, and other
scabrously syphlytic and sociopathic scum-bags take note! Take
criminal advantage of the innocently credulous at your peril!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:46:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:14:21 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Young


 >From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:35:22 +0100
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:10:47 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

<snip>

 >>>Since the general public never sees UFO news, any interest
 >>>is stifled before it can bloom. Polls show there is quite a bite
 >>>of interest by the public.

<snip>

 >You will find that a lot of interest, from a media-perspective,
 >is one that is usually private funded and has a sole aim of
 >widening the debate on the topic, I know this through a lot of
 >interest still continuing within the crop circle footage arena.
 >Try and get hold of a copy of 'Contact'by Bert Jansen & Janet
 >Osbard - Holland.

Hi, Roy:

What do crop circles have to do with UFOs? And, I don't think
little privately funded efforts are what we were thinking of
when we discussed the mainstream news media.

 >And to counter the hardened sceptics out there who say that UFOs
 >are not headline news,

See what I mean?

 >then what about the recent Front Page &
 >Centre pages 'scoop' in the Daily Mail, by Andy Roberts & Dave
 >Clarke, on the Royal UFO Connection, and M.o.D, a real? A
 >surprising piece of UFO Front Page Headline News!!

I was thinking principally of the US media. But, what was the
gist of this story in the British media: There seems to have
been a coverup by the Government years ago but no UFOs, anyway.

This is why the issue is now dropping off the radar screens.
Maybe I'll soon have to revive the title for my old lecture,
"Whatever Happened to UFOs?"


Clear skies,

Bob Young








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               Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud -

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:48:44 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:17:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud -


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud - Hebert
 >Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:38:28 -0500

 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:27:09 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Possible Action Pending In Reed UFO Fraud

<snip>

 >Boycott the enablers.


Amy, List, All -

I have suggested for years that we do not participate in
programs and on venues in which those who have exploited UFOs
appear. I have no problem with sharing a stage with Stan
Friedman, for example, but balk at sharing it with say, a Don
Schmitt. Here is a guy who did a great deal of damage to the
Roswell UFO case and to the field. Yet, he still lectures and he
still investigates and people believe what he says.

I think we can all put together a list of those who don't
deserve our support. I'm thinking here of those who have lied
about their credentials, lied about their background, lied about
what they have accomplished, have been convicted of felonies
(and there are several who regularly appear on the lecture
circuit), those who had claimed military service they didn't
have, and those who are simply unreliable.

I'm not suggesting here that I would fail to share a stage with
those with whom I disagree. Karl Pflock and I are at opposite
ends of the spectrum on some UFO matters, but I respect his
research but reject some of his conclusions. I would, however,
share the stage with him.

I do like this idea of boycotting the enablers because this is
the way to eliminate the forum for them and get rid of their
opinions. I am not suggesting we boycott the forums of those who
disagree, only those who have muddied the waters of Ufology.
Refuse to appear with those people. Make it clear that you don't
want to have anything to do with them. And use, as a criterion,
their lies. Reed is a good example. Schmitt is a good example.
Mel Noel is a good example.

If we begin a self policing, maybe we can begin to move into the
arenas that matter.


KRandle









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                Re: SDI - 189 On 'Global National' - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:55:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:19:39 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI - 189 On 'Global National' - Lehmberg


 >For those interested, Canada's 'Global Television Network',
 >on their 'Global National' newscast, carried a short feature
 >on 'Strange Days... Indeed' - the radio program I host out of
 >CFRB 1010 AM Toronto - last Thursday evening.

 >The video-clip is archived at:

 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/

 >in the Program 189 cell and can be accessed by clicking
 >the 'Play' button there. The .rm file is a tad over 6 Megs.

 >The thrust of the piece ties in with the 'SDI - 190' thread
 >that's currently causing a fair amount of traffic here.

I downloaded it and watched it immediately... the sons of
bitches just couldn't keep from smirking could they. If I ever
get some "truth" I'm going to use it like a suppository on those
guys... God, but there's nothing that pushes my button like a
mainstream sneer... You, on the other hand, were very credible,
Errol.

BTW -- if anybody is having trouble viewing the downloaded
'Real' file, go into Windows Explorer, find the files saved
location, and then change the file _extension_ from .ram to .rm
- then the file will run normally in the Real player.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
~~=D6~~
EXPLORE "Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his VSN URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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               Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:58:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:21:19 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - Kaeser


 >From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:35:22 +0100
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:10:47 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 ><snip>

 >>Since the general public never sees UFO news, any interest
 >>is stifled before it can bloom. Polls show there is quite a bite
 >>of interest by the public.

<snip>

While accurate, I'm not sure that statistic means a lot in an of
itself. Most of the polls were written in such a way that they
generated a positive response if the person merely felt that
there was good possibility that life existed elsewhere in the
Universe.  This doesn't show an overwhelming belief in alien
visitation, and that distinction is often lost in the
discussion. I would agree that there's a lot of interest by the
general public in this field, but these statistics aren't as
clear cut as some would have you believe.

 >TV has one aim in a modern western society, I shall spell it out
 >M-O-N-E-Y.

Which would seem to argue against a vast interest by the general
public, since the media is certainly driven by economic
interests.  To be honest, the media will often schedule UFO
programs during "sweeps week" in the U.S., but those shows are
always designed to be entertaining rather than serious
investigative programs.  Again, this is designed to build
ratings, not to get the "truth" out.

 >I am beginning to think that some people actually welcome the
 >less attention on UFOs within the mainstream media, as they have
 >not really done the UFO debate much good over the years,
 >ridicule being one of the favourite tools, so let the real media
 >study flourish without the spotlight, for now at least.

This is an interesting thought, and you're probably accurate.
Several production companies have come back to the same
'experts' over and over again and they're getting tired of
others making a profit off the genre and not really adding
anything positive to the mix.

We need that landing on the White House lawn..... <g>


Steve








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                Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys' - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:19:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys' - Hamilton


 >From: Erik Landahl <cubman1@mindspring.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Aliens'
 >Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:08:51 -0700

 >For early interviews with Bill Uhouse on his alleged work with
 >greys at Area 51, see the following articles by Glenn Campbell,
 >'The Story of Jarod', 'Jarod's Simulator', and More Details
 >From Jarod', respectively.

 >http://www.aliensonearth.com/area51/desertrat/1995/dr24/

 >http://www.aliensonearth.com/area51/desertrat/1995/dr27/

 >http://www.aliensonearth.com/area51/desertrat/1995/dr28/

I appreciate these references but I do not know how faithfully
Mr. Glen Campbell reported his story. Many do not believe it and
that is their prerogative. I now have some indication that some
of Uhouse's story is true.

I noticed that Kevin Randle has agreed with Stanton Friedman on
Mel Noel (AKA Guy Kirkwood) and his story while he flew an F-86
Sabre jet back in 54. I recently talked with Guy at Rachel and
he passed around his military record of honorable discharge
(DD214) together with several pages of a United Airlines roster
with his name on it while he worked for that company. I saw no
evidence of record tampering, but these records could not be
found by public access. I do not have copies of these at this
time, but I have also seen photos of Guy in flight gear in the
cockpit of an F-86 when looking much younger. I suspect that
someone has tampered with his records as discovered by an FAA
investigator a few years ago when Guy was flying a private plane
and had to make an emergency landing on a freeway.

I am also beginning to question whether too much reliance is
placed on documents. Perhaps we need to develop new procedures
of investigation, especially if we surmise that there is a UFO
cointel group within the government structure.

-Bill Hamilton








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   May > May 31

                Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:20:14 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:31:00 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up' - White


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:46:52 EDT
 >Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:35:22 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

 >>>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:10:47 +0000
 >>>>Subject: Re: SDI 190 - 'Media Not Covering-Up'

<snip>

 >This is why the issue is now dropping off the radar screens.
 >Maybe I'll soon have to revive the title for my old lecture,
 >"Whatever Happened to UFOs?"

Doesn't anyone consider that 9/11 and its frenzied fallout might
be what is diminishing UFO interest?


Eleanor White








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 31

                Meteorological Factors in Unidentified Radar

From: Errol Bruce-Knapp <errol@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:50:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:34:59 -0400
Subject: Meteorological Factors in Unidentified Radar


Since this important document has become extremly difficult
to find on the Web - here it is for the public record.

ebk

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/


The University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona

Meteorological Factors in Unidentified Radar Returns

14th Radar Meteorology Conference
American Meteorological Society

November 17-20, 1970

James E. McDonald

1. Introduction:

Radar meteorology might be said to have its earliest roots in
attempts to account for unexplained echoes detected with Navy
shipboard CXAM radar on the U.S.S. Yorktown 450 miles off the
southern California coast in the summer of 1940 (Page, 1962).
The echoes were demonstrated to be multiple-sweep returns from
the distant San Diego coastal area, seen via the now notorious
anomalous propagation (AP) conditions prevalent in that area.

Similarly, productive research on what ultimately proved to be a
wide variety of types of "radar angels" stemmed from efforts to
account for peculiar echoes not identifiable as aircraft or
precipitation or ground returns. Lightning echoes went through a
similar period of existence as unidentified returns, as did
those caused by intense tornado vortices, sea breeze fronts,
etc. Clearly, unidentified radar returns, and the meteorological
factors contributing to them, have provided a fruitful source of
stimulating new problems in radar meteorology over the past
three decades. Perhaps the most recent example thereof is found
in current studies of the meteorological implications of the
astonishing breaking-wave echoes seen on certain ultrasensitive,
ultra-high-resolution radars, such as the new CW/FM vertically-
pointing set developed at the Naval Electronics Laboratory. The
curious scalloped and braided echo-patterns went unidentified
for a time after being first noted some years back, but are now
reliably attributed to index discontinuities whose shear-
generated undulations and refractivity variance must come as a
distinct surprise to every meteorologist on first seeing graphic
records of these phenomena. In these and other cases of
initially unidentified radar returns, experience has shown that
close attention to recurrent features of the patterns of
puzzling returns has paid off in new and important understanding
of the atmosphere and its electromagnetic propagation
characteristics.

The present paper will comment upon and cite some examples of a
category of unidentified radar returns that do not seem to be
well-known to investigators in radar meteorology, despite the
fact that the phenomena have frequently been attributed to
anomalous propagation and other weather effects. These are a
type of returns observed on operational radars, chiefly military
and air traffic radars, intermittently over a period of about
twenty years, yet never subjected to any very careful,
systematic, and extended scientific scrutiny, as near as I have
been able to ascertain.

2. Past Studies:

It is to be understood that I exclude from this discussion (a)
all really extensive layer-type returns of the sort now fairly
familiar to radar meteorologists from many studies, (b) dot-
   angels of both wind-independent (insects, birds) and wind-
   dependent (atmospheric refractive anomalies) types, (c) ring
angels, and (d) intense but generally really extensive and only
slowly changing ground returns due to AP. After that
elimination, there still remains a class of wind-independent
returns, often highly localized and often exhibiting apparent
speeds of propagation well above ambient wind speeds and
sometimes even well above known aircraft speeds. In Plank's
(1956) review of angel phenomena, he appears to have been
cognizant of such a residual class, which he labeled Type III
Angels ("Echoes, frequently erratic-moving, from localized, non-
   wind carried sources"). That he had in mind returns of the
category here under consideration seems further confirmed by his
subsequent treatment (Plank, 1959, p. 23) of what he termed "a
type of non-aircraft echo that suddenly appears, moves for a
matter of minutes in a semi-straight line path at velocities of
some 600-2000 mph, and then disappears." Echoes of this nature
were discussed earlier by Borden and Vickers (1953) following
two widely publicized episodes at Washington National Airport on
July 19 and 26, 1952. (See also Air Weather Service, 1954.)
Plank (1958) has also briefly discussed those two episodes and
described the prevailing conditions as "exceedingly super-
refractive." However, my own computations of the relevant N-
gradients in the weak surface-inversion layer present showed a
value of only about half the ducting value, and subsequent
checks by Plank (personal communication) revealed that a factor
of two had been inadvertently omitted from his earlier
computations when his estimated gradients were in error by a
factor of two, on the high side. Thayer's gradient computations
confirm this (he does show a thin duct on 7/26/52, but its
elevation of 1 km essentially rules out trapping), yet he too
attributes the episode to AP, which is difficult to understand.
To my present knowledge, the only discussion of any substantial
number of cases in the category of unusual radar returns to be
considered here is that of Thayer (1969), presented as part of
the University of Colorado's study of unidentified flying
objects (UFOs). Since Thayer attributes many of his cases to AP,
his analyses are of present interest. Blackmer et al. (1965)
ostensibly addressed themselves to the present category, but in
fact do not discuss a single specific instance that falls in the
class of interest here; they merely review known propagation
anomalies. Hardy (1969) has also described unusual radar echoes
in a symposium whose context was that of the long-puzzling UFO
problem; but all of his examples, like those touched on by
Blackmer et al., were drawn from categories of known types of
angels and gravity-wave effects and none from the category here
under discussion, In the same symposium, I discussed in
considerable detail (McDonald, 1969) four specific cases in the
category of present interest, two of which cases Thayer (1969)
had attributed to AP effects. I gave reasons for rejecting such
an interpretation (McDonald 1969). For brevity, the category of
present interest will be referred to as "radar UFOs" in the
remainder of these remarks.

3. Some Illustrative Examples of Radar UFOs Attributed to
Atmospheric Effects:

We do face a semantic problem here as to what shall be
understood by the term "radar UFO." I would emphasize, first, as
did Plank in describing his "Type III angels", that they must be
discrete echoes (often as intense as or more intense than,
conventional aircraft at corresponding ranges); and, second,
they must exhibit motions whose kinematic characteristics are
quite distinct from those of conventional aircraft or of
familiar ground-return effects. I would also add a third
stipulation that they must be unlike any of the familiar
interference and ECM effects (spoking, running-rabbits,
blanking, etc.). Those three stipulations may at least be
suggestive of relevant elimination criteria, even if each calls
for much more careful specification than is possible within
present space-limitations. Plank stressed "erratic" motion; but
in many instances of radar UFOs, strong targets have moved in
straight-line paths from one side of an operational scope to the
other at speeds far in excess of aircraft speeds (i.e., several
thousands of miles per hour) without any change of apparent
course. In other instances, high-speed tracks have exhibited
sharp direction-changes, stops, closed one-sweep course-
   reversals, or closed orbits at extreme g-levels, in fashion
quite inexplicable in terms of known aeronautical devices.
Plank's term "erratic" is thus somewhat misleading, although
there certainly are cases on record where that description would
fit rather well. His speed range, 600-2000 mph, is not
acceptable here, at either its lower or upper limit. Cases that
I have looked into include targets whose speeds have, within a
single tracking episode, varied from zero to several times his
suggested upper limit. However, I believe that, for initial
purposes of discussion, there is probably rough correspondence
between what Plank referred to as "Type III angels" and what I
shall here term "radar UFOs", though his omission of specific
details of cases he had in mind renders that conclusion a bit
uncertain. Thayer was definitely concerned with the same general
category that I wish to discuss, as will be seen in examples
below; Hardy (1969) and Blackmer et al. (1969), to repeat,
simply were not, in my opinion, treating the present problem.

3.1 Case 1: Kincheloe AFB, Sept. 11-12, 1967:

Between 2242E, Sept. 11 and 0001E, Sept. 11-12, 1967, targets
were observed with an MPN-14 radar (S-band, 60- mile range, 20
rpm scan, beam tilt-range 0-10 degrees) at the Rapcon Site,
Kincheloe AFB, Michigan. The phenomena to be described below
were officially explained as "probable anomalous propagation" by
Air Force Project Blue Book; and Thayer (1969), p. 164)
concludes that this is a "case of observations of moving AP-
   echoes produced by unusually well-stratified atmospheric
conditions." Thus we confront here a case of some unusual echoes
that have been attributed to atmospheric effects by two
investigations.

My examination of the episode is based on study of file material
in Air Force archives and on direct interviews with Sgt M. Y.
Burns, the senior radar operator on duty during the episode. It
is relevant to remark that Burns, at that time, had 7 years'
experience in radar, 3 of them at Kincheloe AFB working with the
equipment involved in this case. Useful information on the case
has also been provided by Dr. Norman E. Levine, who was one of
two investigators representing the University of Colorado UFO
Project in an on-site check carried out approximately three
weeks after the incident. Thayer was not at the site, nor did he
interview personnel involved. Like most other cases of interest
in the category of radar UFOs, this one is too involved to
describe in full detail here; but salient futures will be noted,
in order to suggest the kind of problems that I regard as still
unsolved.

A total of 17 targets were followed during the roughly 80
minutes' duration of this episode. On only two occasions were
two targets painting on the scope at the same time; the other 13
were singles. At the time of the appearance of the first target,
a B-52 which was outbound about 30 mi west was being followed
routinely (recounted to me by Levine, confirmed to me by Burns
in direct interview, and confirmed in Blue Book case-file in
archives), when a second blip was noted heading N to S on a
potential collision course with the B-52. The pilot was alerted
but never saw any other aircraft or object. He was asked if he
was "playing with radar" but no ECM was involved. Burns
estimates that the target's initial speed was somewhat faster
than that of the bomber; but then it suddenly slowed to roughly
half its initial apparent speed and the B-52 cleared it, the
target seeming to pass southward behind the aircraft. The blip
then abruptly turned eastward and accelerated to a speed that
Burns and other duty personnel estimated at approximately 2000
mph (1.5 mi/sweep, roughly). Burns could not recall if this
first target crossed the scope; all of his original notes were
given to Levine and hence are presumably in the University of
Colorado archives. Burns told me that this target, like most of
the subsequent targets, was stronger than the B-52 return, and
that he had MTI on and it was taking out all ground clutter. In
response to my query, he stated that he had looked for AP all
that night but saw none at any time. He contacted Minneapolis
ARTC and the ADC SAGE center, but they had nothing on such a
target.

Eight minutes later a second target appeared. (Following data
from official case-file, and only rather sketchy information is
given on most of the targets; but, on directly querying TSgt
Burns, I learned that all were hard targets, not diffuse echoes
of the sort typical of small elements of ground-return from AP.)
This second target was seen at 250 degrees azimuth, heading
towards 50=F8 azimuth, speed not specified in case file. Then
between 2250E and 2330E "nine other UFOs" were observed on the
MPN-14: (1) at 270 degrees tracking towards 90 degrees; (2) at
230 degrees, tracking 30 degrees; (3) at 380 degrees, tracking
100 degrees; (4) at 270 degrees, tracking 90 degrees; (5) at 230
degrees, tracking 30 degrees for 20 miles, then changed course,
heading 360 degrees; (6) at 280 degrees tracking 100 degrees for
20 miles, then turned to 180 degrees. Then these last two
targets (5 and 6) "joined at 30 miles due west of Kincheloe AFB
and both went eastbound at 2000 mph," passing overhead but not
visually observed. (Quote from original TWX from Kincheloe to
Project Blue Book, in case-file.) The remaining three UFOs were:
(7) at 160 degrees, tracki ng 360 degrees; (8) at 30 degrees,
tracking 200 degrees; and (9) at 30 degrres, tracking 270
degrees. Then, at 2338E another target was picked up at 200
degrees, tracking 360 degrees. At 2358E, another at 280 degrees,
tracking 120 degrees from 60 miles out until 20 miles out then
turned and headed towards 270 degrees.

At 0000E (on the 12th), Burns logged the second of two instances
in which two unidentified targets were on-scope concurrently.
One was at azimuth 200 degrees, tracking 90 degrees but then
turned to a heading of 360 degrees, slowed down over an interval
of 8 miles, turned to a 270 degrees heading, and "disappeared
from scope" (sic). The second of the two was at 250 degrees
initially, and tracking 90 degrees, but then turned towards a
heading of 360 degrees and left the scope.

Finally, the seventeenth observed anomalous target, detected at
0001E, was first picked up at 270 degrees, tracking 30 degrees,
but turned to a 360 degrees heading, slowed down, turned to 270
degrees, then turned again to a 360 degrees heading, and speeded
up again.

The case-file includes further comments and clarifications Lt.
T. E. Leaman at Kincheloe and Lt. W. B. Stoecker, ADC (SAGE)
Duluth, as well as by Blue Book officers. These include the
statement noting that the sergeant who reported the sighting "is
very experienced and would probably know what it was if it was
anomalous propagation," and statements that no interceptor
scramble from Kincheloe was called because no scramble
capability existed there, while none was called from SAGE Duluth
because their remoted scopes did not show the unknowns (with
single exception of a strobe seen from the 753rd AC&Wron near
Sault Ste. Marie). Stoecker suggested that the objects may have
been too low over Kincheloe to be seen from the SAGE sites; on
the other hand, as the file states (and as Burns stressed to
me), tower personnel at Kincheloe saw nothing visually despite
good visibility and only scattered high clouds, which is
puzzling, though by no means unprecedented. Burns tried beam-
tilting and tended to get stronger returns at high than at low
tilt. No RHI equipment was locally available, unfortunately. The
case-file states that Sgt. Burns tried switching channels, as a
cross-check against possible ECM, but got no change in target
intensity, tending to discount that possibility. I asked Burns
if he tried IFF, and he said he did but got no IFF, just skin-
return. He pointed out that the 752d AC&Wron at Empire, Mich.,
queried him at one point during this episode, asking if he was
getting a retum at about 100 mi SE, heading his way. But his
MPN-14 had only 60-mi range and could not then detect it; nor
did a target subsequently enter his scope from that sector. The
only target that he carried which he knew to be concurrently
carried by another radar was one at a bearing of about 250
degrees from Kincheloe that was also seen at least briefly by
radar at the 753d at Sault Ste. Marie. Burns recalled that the
753d had a height on that target, but they did not release it to
him. There is no indication in the casefile that this important
point was checked by anyone.

Because targets in the radar UFO category have often been
reported to stop for variable periods of time, I asked Burns
what he felt the slowest speed had been. He replied that in
several instances some of these targets hovered motionless for a
time of the order of 10-15 seconds (3-5 scans). The MTI was set
to function out to approximately 15 miles; whether the hovering
targets lay within or beyond the MTI limit is not now clear.
What interpretation is to be put on a radar episode such as the
above? At Project Blue Book, the considerable experience of the
senior man on duty and his specific yet unsuccessful search for
AP symptoms were rather casually ignored in the following
evaluative comment by V. D. Bryant, dated 15 January 1968 and
included in the official case-file: "The obvious 'excuse' or
'explanation' for the sightings appears to be temperature
inversion. The erratic courses taken by the 'objects', their
wide variations in speed (150 to 2000 mph), and the fact that no
noise was heard, even at the low altitudes assumed, all point
toward anomalous propagation due to temperature inversions."
And, on that basis, the Kincheloe sighting is so carried in the
official files. This is a representative Blue Book radar
evaluation, I have found.

Thayer (1969), reviewing this case in the Condon Report, states:
"This is a good example of moving radar targets that cannot be
seen visually, where there is a 'forbidden cone' over the radar
site. Some of the returns were even seen to approach within 5-15
mi of the radar and disappear, apparently subsequently
reappearing on the other side of the radar scope at about the
same range that they disappeared. This sort of behavior is
symptomatic of AP-echoes." [That gross misinterpretation of the
blind spot over-head in all search-type radars is made by Thayer
in other cases he analyzes in the Condon Report, including the
extremely significant Lakenheath case of 1956 in England
(Thayer, 1969, p. 163).]

Thayer displays refractivity profiles for the time and general
vicinity of the Kincheloe episode and, on the basis of an
elevated duct in the 300-500m layer, suggests that "strong
partial reflection should be expected," and that "moving AP-
echoes, produced in the manner described by Borders and Vickers
(1953), could be expected to appear at apparent heights of
between 2000-3000 ft and 7000-9000 ft." Confusingly, those
heights do not match either of the diagrams he displays, one of
which is, in fact, labeled 9 Nov. 1967, a month and a half after
this episode. Also, Thayer systematically plots his index
profiles on A-Z coordinates, yet always labels the super-
refractive layers in terms of the vertical N-gradient, not the
A-gradient. This is more than merely confusing; it promotes the
misinterpretation that ducting is present in cases (numerical
value between about -115 km^-1 and -157 km^-1), where it really
is not.

A basic difficulty in examining the validity of Thayer's
assertion concerning "strong partial reflection" is that he does
not define his usage of that term. In usual practice, it has
acquired two distinct meanings: (1) Partial direct reflection,
i.e., back-scatter, to put it more precisely, or (2) partial
forward-scatter. Neither of those interpretations offers any
hope of accounting for the kinematics of the reported Kincheloe
targets, and certainly the former could not conceivably yield
apparent radar cross-sections rather greater than that of a B-
52, as Sgt. Burns characterized the intensities of these
unidentified returns.

Nor does Thayer clarify his position by seeming to equate
"strong partial reflections" with the ideas proposed by Borden
and Vickers (1953). Their discussion postulates essentially
specular reflection from moving waves on an inversion surface,
the propagation speeds being of the order of the wind speed and
the apparent targets thus being assigned roughly twice the speed
at inversion level, for reasons of simple relfection-geometry.
First, it must be remarked that, although the Borden and Vickers
report has often been cited as if it settled the July, 1952
Washington radar UFO episodes, I find that view unsupported by
the very sketchy and entirely qualitative mode they propose.
Secondly, the upper-level winds at Kincheloe that night were
less than 10 kts up to the 850 mb level (below which lay the
only index gradients of any significance), which would scarcely
account for the reported target speeds on anything remotely like
the Borden-Vickers hypothesis. And third, the Borden-Vickers
hypothesis of "glint" reflections from favorably disposed
undulations on an inversion surface could scarcely be invoked to
account for apparent target movements, whose directional
variability matched that seen on the Kincheloe MPN-14 during
this episode; nor could it possibly account for sudden turns,
hovering, and accelerations described in the official case-file.
Other slightly subtler objections could easily be raised, but
those simple ones seem sufficient to reject Thayer's loose
explanation (let alone the still less meaningful one contained
in the official case file).

One might ask how Thayer would suggest that any form of
propagation anomaly or "partial reflection" could explain the
complex kinematics reported by the Kincheloe Rapcon Site for
this night. One partial answer may be that he offers that
suggestion in a mere 4-paragraph account of this intriguing
case, an account that gives the reader no hint that 17 distinct
targets were seen, that says nothing about turns, hovering
periods, or accelerations, that omits any mention of speeds of
the order of 2000 mph, and that gives no suggestion that in one
instance two such targets converged from opposite directions,
turned eastward together, and then moved across the scope side-
by-side at about Mach 3, passing over and beyond Kincheloe AFB.
Unfortunately, I must add that my detailed checking of the
discussions of the 35 "optical and radar analyses" in the Condon
Report has established that such omissions of crucial sighting
details are typical, not exceptional in that Report.

Plank (1958, 1959) has suggested that perhaps some of the
"erratically moving angels" (his Type III) might be caused by
"shock waves, echo being the product of direct back scatter or
diversion of energy to the ground." He then notes that shock
waves are thin, on the order of microns, yet can have refractive
index differences across them of "several hundred N-units." The
high speeds exhibited by some of the targets in this Kincheloe
episode (and in many others of interest) might vaguely suggest
shock phenomena, so perhaps a few remarks negating that
hypothesis are in order. First, Plank really does not offer any
geometric model to support the kind of kinematics found in
interesting radar UFO cases. (Quite possibly he is unaware of
the content of most such cases.) Only extremely simple paths
would be possible; certainly his emphasis upon erratic movement
goes wholly unexplained on any such model. But the greater
objections are the quantitative objections. He mentions N-
changes of several hundred units; but this is quite
unreasonable. First, only temperature jumps and not humidity
jumps could accompany shockwave passage.

Secondly, in the lower atmosphere, one N-unit change is
associated with approximately 1 degree C of temperature change.
Third, the Rankine-Hugoniot equations permit one to relate
shock-front temperature changes to concomitant peak
overpressures; and an over-pressure of, say, 5 psi, is found to
lead to a transient shock-heating of only about 30 degrees C
(hence about 30 N-units jump across shock-front), yet this is an
overpressure not only great enough to take out all nearby
windows but to level weak structures and collapse roofs. In
brief, the only shock waves capable of giving significant radar-
reflecting characteristics would be of rather severely damaging
nature, would leave unmistakable after-effects, and yet could
influence a radar beam for only fractions of a second. The
shock-wave suggestion seems unpromising for explaining radar
UFOs, in general, and the Kincheloe targets in particular.
Indeed, one of the characteristic puzzles of high-speed radar
UFOs (and the Kincheloe UFOs in particular) is that no
discernible sonic boom is associated with cases where the radar-
deduced speeds are markedly supersonic.

In summary, it is by no means clear that one can accept any
known kind of anomalous propagation for targets in the class
exemplified by the Kincheloe targets. However, we are doubtless
still unaware of certain types of propagation anomalies in our
atmosphere, and the breaking-wave echoes may attest to
interesting surprises yet to come. But there seems to exist so
large a margin of separation between any of the now-suspected
atmospheric effects and the characteristics of what I am terming
radar UFOs that I do find it difficult to understand how AP and
"weather effects" have so long been casually employed to explain
radar unidentified targets within Project Blue Book, and how
they have more recently been invoked in the Condon Report by
Thayer in essentially similar manner.

Perhaps a clue to the latter is found in a curious introductory
definition of what Thayer (1969, p.117) terms "blip-like" radar
returns: "Cases where the radar target (or targets shared
characteristics similar to the return from a solid object (such
as an aircraft, etc.) and where the target did not display
erratic or discontinuous behavior. Acceleration or velocity in
excess of known aircraft capabilities, or periods of immobility
were not considered to be contrary to normal target behavior." I
fear that this definition be paraphrased fairly by saying that
Thayer adopted at the outset explicatory rules by which
completely abnormal radar returns were agreed to be quite
normal. Many examples in support of such a paraphrase have come
to my attention in follow-up investigations of the Condon
Report, whose handling of the radar UFO cases I find almost
wholly uncritical, generally tendentious, and often absurd --
   and, more than that, disturbingly incomplete with respect to
the scientifically most puzzling features of many of the cases
(cf. McDonald, 1969). If we are to learn anything
meteorologically interesting from radar UFOs, it will come only
from much more discriminating and more thorough analyses than
any now at hand.

3.2 Case 2: U. S. Naval Air Station, North Island, San Diego,
Calif., Oct. 14 1957:

As another illustration of past radar UFO cases that have been
officially explained in terms of meteorological effects, we
might consider one that, unlike the preceding case, involves
visual as well as radar observations, and for which the radar
observations were made from the air rather than from the ground.
Cases of both the latter types are scattered through the Air
Force archives, and some, like this one, emanated from another
service. I have not interviewed any of the observers in this
particular case, so, in order to fulfill written agreements with
the Air Force, I cannot cite witness-names. Instead, I shall be
forced to use merely initials of the Navy personnel involved. (I
am currently challenging Air Force structures against citation
of names of military and government-agency witnesses in past UFO
cases, contending that they are blocking full and credible
scientific discussion of case details and arguing that these
strictures stand in violation of P.L. 552. It is the present Air
Force position (SAFOI letter, 7 Aug 1970) that scientific
citation of witness names would constitute an "invasion of
privacy", despite the fact that these were personnel of the
military, FAA, USWB, etc,, whose observations and official
reports were made in regular line of duty. At this writing, my
efforts to get the Air Force to rescind these strictures have
not yet proved successful, so unfortunately I am obliged to omit
all names from this account of my checks on this scientifically
significant case.

No strictures against citation of names of investigative and
evaluative personnel have ever been imposed in the course of my
investigations, so I do cite certain names in those categories,
since they, too, are of obvious documentational relevance.)

Slightly before 1900 PST, on October 14, 1957, at NAS North
Island, AC/3 VEE (initials of enlisted Navy tower controller)
noted "a bright, round, white light, about the size of a dime,
bearing 210 degrees T from the tower and approximately 300 ft
above the Point Loma land mass," according to a 17 October 1957
report to the Air Force Office of Special Investigations from
the District Intelligence Officer, Eleventh Naval District. VEE
observed the object remain stationary for about 2 minutes and
then fade out. One or two minutes later a similar light,
presumably the same, suddenly reappeared slightly farther north
and a bit lower than before, and now somewhat brighter. After
remaining stationary about two minutes, it again faded away, the
report notes. Somewhere in this sequence, VEE alerted two other
enlisted personnel, DC and MD, also on duty in the tower; and
all used binoculars in the later portions of the visual
observations, according to the intelligence summary. It soon
reappeared once more, again farther north and again lower; it
seemed now to wobble slightly and exhibited a half-halo on its
upper portion, with a bluish tint on one side. No angular
estimate is given.

Concurrently, a Navy S2F tracker (anti-sub-marine search
aircraft), attached to VS-21 at NAS North Island, moved into
position for takeoff, and AC/3 VEE had to divide his attentions
between the unexplained light over Pt. Loma and the S2F ready
for takeoff. In the process of controlling the takeoff and
vectoring the aircraft to attempt a search, VEE lost the object,
the reasons becoming clearer below.

According to Air Intelligence Information Report 01-03-57, dated
23 October 1957, prepared by Maj. L. W. Bruner, 27th Air
Division, Norton AFB, Calif., based on a signed summary
statement by the S2F pilot, Lt. ALR (initials), the aircrew,
during engine warmup, had heard the tower operator take three
radio calls to an "unidentified aircraft", requesting identity
and intentions, but getting no reply. On requesting and getting
takeoff clearance, Lt. ALR was asked by the tower operator to
maintain 200 ft altitude after liftoff and proceed to Pt. Loma
to identify a stationary light source apparently hovering at
that estimated altitude. Lt. ALR notes that both the copilot,
Lt.(jg) GTC, and he observed the light, while still on the
runway before starting their run.


"After take-off, I turned outbound over the channel," Lt. ALR
wrote in VS-21 msg 152348Z of Oct 1957, "and climbed to 200
feet, all the while keeping the light in view. My intentions
were to proceed seaward of the light so as to silhouette its
airframe against the lights of San Diego. However, when we drew
abreast of it off our right wingtip, we observed it undergoing a
rapid acceleration away from us and to the west. I noted
relative motion between it and the lights of San Diego. As our
range opened the light began to alternately vary in color and
intensity. The extremes were bright red and a blue white, with
no regular period of change from one to the other."

"I turned West and assumed a heading of 230 mag. with the light
then dead ahead. In about four or five minutes (warm-up time)
our radar operator reported a target dead ahead at seventeen
miles and above us. The weather was clear ahead and above, with
a discernable horizon and low clouds 30 miles west. The stars
were bright and clear but small and dim compared with the light
we were following. During the chase there was always evident a
relative motion between this object and the background of
stars."

"From Pt. Loma on out the object climbed steadily and I followed
in a gradual ascent at 240 knots IAS, closing irregularly. At
4500 ft the object leveled off 12 miles ahead, and then drifted
right 10 degrees in about five seconds. I turned right to 240
mag., leveled off and increased speed to 160 knots. The range
closed to 10 miles and stabilized. After following for about
three minutes at 10 miles I decreased speed to 120 knots but
observed no range-rate on radar. I then advanced speed to 180
knots IAS and still observed no range-rate."

"The object in the meantime drifted 20 degrees to the left (220
mag.) in no more than 10 seconds, and then closed range to 8
miles in one rotation of the radar antenna (7.5 seconds). The
range stabilized again at 8 miles and we began another gradual
climb. At 8000 ft and about 40 miles from Pt. Loma the object
leveled off and shortly after disappeared visually and on radar.
Fifteen seconds later it reappeared visually but not on radar
although the operator switched to sector-scan and searched
continuously."


Lt. ALR concluded his summary with the comment that they
maintained visual contact until the S2F was 50 miles from Pt.
Loma, at which time they lost visual contact, too (fadeout),
terminating the incident. His statement notes that all four
aircrewmen saw it and can substantiate his descriptions. (The
two enlisted men aboard were WES and WPC.)

This is only one more of many radar UFO cases I have recently
been studying as a result of extensive searches through the Air
Force archives and only one of many hundreds of UFO cases I have
checked during the past four years. Each case has certain unique
features, but many have the common feature that it is
exceedingly difficult to propose for them conventional
explanations. Yet, here as in almost all the rest that have
received the Project Blue Book evaluations, a conventional
explanation has been assigned by Blue Book.

I quote from that explanation, extracted from Air Force
archives, since it invokes atmospheric phenomena of potential
interest to radar meteorologists and atmospheric physicists:


"Distortion of light and changing colors attributed to probable
inversion off coast. That Arcturus was the object is ...
indicated by the fact that the pilots could not close on the
object. Its jumping around and the spurious radar returns caused
by inversion or other weather conditions conclusive to
distortion of atmospheric optics. Sighting was of short duration
and Arcturus set at about the time of object's disappearance."


(Actually, I must note that there is a slight confusion on the
official evaluation of this case, Although the above case-
summary explains the sighting in terms of Arcturus and some form
of anomalous propagation, the casecard in the archives shows it
as "Possible Balloon." There is no evidence of any real analysis
of either hypothesis, no weather data, no computations of
positions, or other quantitative assessment; but the original
teletype message from AIRASRON-21 to Wright-Patterson AFB, which
notes how the object "drifted across chase plane's course at
speeds estimated by pilot to be in excess of 1000 mph," has a
pencil-sketch of a top-view of an aircraft flying past a sphere,
with arrows and lines evidently intended to depict the viewpoint
contained in evaluating annotations that nearly obliterate parts
of the TWX: "Tests have shown that when a/c slipstream from wing
tip hits balloons it sends it rapidly sideways." The sketch and
pencilled evaluative comments, typical of many documents in the
UFO archives, are signed by Capt. George T. Gregory, who was
Project Blue Book officer in the 1957-59 period. Many of such
UFO reports were processed in about this way over the years.

But this one has the alternative (and evidently officially
preferred) explanation of suggested inversion effects on
Arcturus and the S2F's radar. Consider certain difficulties with
that explanation: (1) The tower observers reported to Navy
intelligence interrogators that the light shifted three times,
from its azimuth of first appearance at 210 degrees T. At about
1900 PST on this date, Arcturus was nearing the horizon at about
290 degrees T. This light over Pt. Loma was seen by the cockpit
crew from the runway and held in sight until they drew nearly
abreast of it, viewing it off the right wingtip, whereupon it
suddenly accelerated westward and started climbing. (2) The
subsequent air chase involved a sequence of pursuit headings
stated to be 230 degrees mag, then 240 degrees mag, then 220
degrees mag, the source finally pulling away and fading out at
230 degrees mag, after an approximately 20-minute visual-radar
chase, at about 230 degrees mag. The magnetic variation off the
San Diego coast is about 15 degrees E, whence the bearing to
Arcturus would have been about 275 degrees mag, some 35 to 50
degrees from the luminous object's reported azimuth, far in
excess of uncertainties that would affect observations under
these conditions. (3) Viewed from the S2F, the object appeared
to climb, then level out, on two occasions. And it executed fast
lateral shifts to both left and right, through arcs stated by
the Navy pilot to approximate 10 degrees and 20 degrees of
relative azimuth. (4) The aircraft was flying, after the first
few minutes, at altitudes well above the coastal subsidence
inversion whose refractive effects are adduced in the official
explanation to account for angular image-excursions whose
amplitudes dwarf the 10's of seconds of arc displacement
associated with stellar scintillation effects, even under
unfavorable viewing conditions at the surface, let alone at 4-
8000 ft level. (5) Nor does the official explanation that the
"inversion and weather conditions" were responsible make better
sense of the reported radar behavior. Ranges opened and closed,
angular altitude varied, and azimuths shifted, all this during a
40-mile pursuit, at altitudes ultimately near 8000 ft. (6) The
estimated lateral speeds (order of 1000 mph) came from rough
calculations based on radar ranges, plus compass-based angular
estimates. A target at 10-mile radar range that moves 20 degrees
in 10 seconds has exhibited an apparent velocity near 1200 mph.

To suggest that optical refraction effects plus anomalous
propagation could cause such extreme behavior, and to suggest it
without the slightest supporting argument, is simply not
reasonable.

Could there be some truly phenomenal optical and radar-
propagational anomalies of the atmosphere that might be capable
of yielding visual and radar indications of this sort? The
archives have many more such anomalies that will require at
least equal extensions of present scientific knowledge if we are
to account for them along the lines of application of
atmospheric physics that I have found typical of Project Blue
Book UFO explanations over the past two decades.

3.3 Case 3: Gulf of Mexico, B-29, Dec. 6, 1952:

With so large a number of previously unknown cases that I could
discuss and so little space available here, it is difficult to
select a final example. But because of my strong concern over
the serious inadequacies of the radar-optical UFO case-analyses
in the Condon Report, I choose a last one that exhibits some of
those deficiencies, that is explained in terms of alleged
atmospheric effects, and that happens to be a rather famous case
in UFO annals. I believe that the ad hoc panel that reviewed and
endorsed the Condon Report (NAS, 1969) could not possibly have
scrutinized carefully the level of analysis of cases such as
this in that Report, a point that I have elaborated elsewhere
(McDonald, 1969b).

In the early morning hours of December 6, 1952, a B-29, on the
return leg of a training flight out of Randolph AFB had turned
around over Tampa and taken up a generally westbound course
across the Gulf. When about 100 miles south of the Louisiana
coast at an altitude of 20,000 ft, visual sighting of oilwell
flares on the coast led the Instructor Navigator, 1/Lt WN, to
request a student radar operator to turn on his set and try to
pick up the coastline on 100 mile range. After the student
operator's failure to detect the coast, WN confirmed that no
coastline echo was discernible, so called for a set calibration.
Some time later he was alerted to presence of some four blips
ahead and in rapid closure with the B-29. [Air Intelligence
Information Report No. IR-86-52, filed from Randolph AFB by Maj.
J. R. Sheffield, Wing Operations Officer, 3510th Flying Training
Wing, includes a summary of the events, the sightings, a map,
and signed statements by three officers and two enlisted men who
figure in the incident. These items, plus the original TWX and
other materials in the archived case-file indicate that the B-29
had turned to a heading of 320 degrees at some earlier time,
after the unsuccessful search for the coastline on the
navigational radar, and had reached coordinates of 28 degrees
10'N, 92 degrees 04'W when the sightings began. I cite these
points because they are quite relevant to a point that Thayer
(1969) regards as crucial, yet seem to me to be a
misinterpretation of the intelligence report. I infer from
coordinates and times that inability to pick up the coastline
occurred while the B-29 was still just over 100 miles offshore,
beyond the set's 100-mile range. Furthermore, the set was then
uncalibrated, as the Instructor Navigator makes clear in his
signed statement.]

The first 4 targets were sighted at 0525 CST, "with no specific
grouping such as a radar beacon transmits apparent on the scope
at 330 degrees," Lt. WN stated. The radar had azimuth
stabilization; its scan rate was 25 rpm. The navigator, 2/Lt
RKE, verified WN's assertion that these first blips advanced
southeastward about 5 mi/scan, and MSgt BRP, the aircraft
performance technician, using 1/Lt NK's stopwatch data and the
indicated displacements per scan, informed the crew that the
computed target speed was about 5000 mph. These targets, viewed
on three repeater scopes, passed to the right of the B-29 and
moved offscope at a bearing of about 70 degrees.

Then, immediately after a calibration-check, a second group of
blips was seen coming in along a similar path. This time the
pilot called off relative bearings from his repeater scope, with
instructions for the crew to watch on the starboard. SSgt WJD
states: "I immediately looked in that position (3 o' clock
bearing called out from cockpit) and saw two flashes of
approximately 3 seconds, which did not alter course whatsoever.
The flash was of a blue-white nature and did not change
brilliance... when it disappeared." Two objects were also seen
by MSgt BRP, and he was evidently forward for he saw them move
rearward and disappear under the wing. In 1/Lt WN's accounc, he
confirms that these flashes were seen to "go from front to rear
under our wing "

The interrogating officer, Maj. J. R. Sheffield, in his
intelligence report from Randolph AFB, gives 18,000 ft as the
approximate altitude of the objects and 20,000 ft as the B-29's
altitude, accepting the crew's statements that the objects came
in below the B-29. Despite this, Sheffield states in his report
that: "Visual sightings are indecisive an of little confirmatory
value," but no explanation of why he discounts the two crewmen's
observations is given. Like many other Blue Book reports, this
case-file leaves unanswered a number of pertinent questions. The
total number of objects followed on radar is not clearly
specified. 1/Lt NK says he observed: "about twenty objects in
all, sometimes as many as two and three on the scope at one
time." Crewmen refer to one radar-observed event involving a
merger of targets (a feature that I have now found in a number
of reports of radar UFOs). As WN described it: "Contact was
broken off at 0535 after a group of blips merged into a half-
inch curved arc about 30 miles from our a/c at 320 degrees and
proceeded across the scope and off it at a computed speed of
over 9000 mph." WN also stresses one other significant target-
movement: "One group of blips, after the scope was calibrated,
were noted, after moving from 330 degrees to 150 degrees across
the scope, to arc about and swing in behind us at approximately
30 miles and maintain speed and distance for approximately 10
seconds and then disappear." Given that summary, consider
Thayer's (1969) explanation of this case (which Blue Book has
carried as "unidentified" since 1953): "The visual sightings
were probably Geminid meteors," he writes. No supporting
discussion; just that assertion. In fact, one finds that the
radiant of this December shower lay at about 280 degrees azimuth
and about 55 degrees elevation angle at 0535C on this date.
Hence, any Geminids seen to the starboard of an aircraft on 315-
320 degrees heading at 0530C would have been descending almost
perpendicular to the NE horizon, a 90 degrees direct mismatch
with Thayer's explanation.

The above-described multiple radar target events Thayer explains
in terms of a ducting layer that showed on the 0900C Burwood
radar. "The strange moving targets seen on the radar were
probably caused by imperfections in the atmospheric layer
forming the radio duct allowing radio energy to enter the
ducting layer at various points. This would create sporadic
returns." The failure to pick up the coastline just prior to the
UFO episode he explains as follows: "A transmitter located above
a radio duct and emitting a high enough frequency to be
affected, as the radar undoubtedly was, does not excite
propagation within the duct. This implies that the coastline
below the duct would not be visible to the radar located above
the duct." Thayer's argument is, of course, quite erroneous; he
has his argument upside down. And casual suggestion that the
complex target behavior reported in this case was the result of
"a series of gravity waves running along the duct" is mere
verbalism.

Thus were radar UFOs discounted in the Condon Report. Perhaps
the above examples will give at least some indication that there
remains an unsolved scientific problem here, that there exist
unidentified radar returns of a category for which atmospheric
effects have been proposed as explanations, but on ground that
are to date less than satisfactory.


REFERENCES:
=B7 Air Weather Service, 1954: Radar objects over Washington. AWS Bulletin,=

Sept., 42-57.
=B7 Blackmer, R. H., et al., 1969: Radar and the observation of UFOs. In
Scientific Study of UFOs, E, U.
Condon, princ. inv., Bantam Books, 965 pp.
=B7 Borden. R. C,, and T. K. Vickers, 1953: A preliminary study of
unidentified targets observed on Air Traffic
Control Radars, CAA Tech. Div. Rpt. 180, Indianapolis, 16 pp.
=B7 Hardy, K, R., 1969: Unusual radar echoes. Presented at UFO Symposium,
136th meeting AAAS, Boston,
Mass., 26-27 Dec.
=B7 McDonald, J. E., 1969a: Science in default: 22 years of inadequate UFO=

investigations. Presented at UFO
Symposium, 136th meeting AAAS, Boston, Mass., 26-27 Dec.
=B7 McDonald, J. E., 1969b: Review of the Condon Report. Icarus, 11,=
 443-447.
=B7 National Academy of Sciences 1969: Review of the University of Colorado=

Report on Unidentified Flying
Objects. Icarus, 11, 440-443.
=B7 Page, R. M., 1962: Origin of Radar. Doubleday, N.Y., 196 pp.
=B7 Plank, V. G., 1956: A meteorological study of radar angels. Geophys.=
 Res.
Paper No. 52, AFCRL, 117 pp.
=B7 Plank, V. G., 1958: Atmospheric angels mimic radar echoes. Electronics,=

31, March 14, 1958.
=B7 Plank, V. G., 1959: Spurious echoes on radar, a survey. Geophys. Res.
Paper No. 62, AFCRL, 51 pp.
=B7 Thayer, G. D., 1969: Optical and radar analyses of field cases. In
Scientific Study of UFOs, E. U. Condon,
princ. inv., Bantam books, 965 pp.










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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   May > May 31

                          Secrecy News -- 05/31/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:51:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:34:47 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/31/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 49
May 31, 2002


**      NEW FBI GUIDELINES HIGHLIGHT OVERSIGHT DEFICIT
**      SECRET DEPORTATION HEARINGS RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL
**      PENTAGON READINESS REPORTS PRESERVED
**      FACTUAL ERROR FOUND ON INTERNET


NEW FBI GUIDELINES HIGHLIGHT OVERSIGHT DEFICIT

It is a matter of common sense as well as good policy that any
increase in government authority should be matched by a
corresponding increase in oversight.  But the newly augmented
investigative authorities granted to the Federal Bureau of
Investigation conspicuously lack any provision for new
oversight.

The revised Attorney General's Investigative Guidelines
announced yesterday expand the ability of the FBI to conduct
domestic surveillance, and to exploit the Internet and
commercial databases for counterterrorism purposes, among other
changes.

The new Guidelines ignore the history of the domestic
surveillance scandals of the 1970s and simply jettison many of
the resulting constraints on the FBI, without providing a
compensating oversight mechanism.  But there is no reason that
an aggressive and highly competent FBI could not coexist with an
effective and demanding system of oversight.

Attorney General Ashcroft assured the public yesterday that the
expanded FBI powers would be used only "for purposes of
preventing terrorism" and would "not ... be abused for other
purposes."  But he did not indicate exactly how abuses would be
prevented or detected, short of a recurrence of past excesses.

The new Investigative Guidelines were published yesterday on the
Justice Department web site.  A copy (in large PDF files) along
with related materials on FBI reorganization may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/index.html#2002

An initial critique of the substance of the new Guidelines
prepared by James X. Dempsey of the Center for Democracy and
Technology is posted here:

http://www.cdt.org/wiretap/may_30_guidelines.shtml


SECRET DEPORTATION HEARINGS RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL

In a rebuff to the Bush Administration, a federal judge ruled
this week that the Administration's practice of conducting
closed deportation hearings against an untold number of
September 11 detainees "violates the Constitution."

The Court agreed that closed hearings may be appropriate in
individual cases to protect sensitive information, but found
that to presumptively close all immigration hearings connected
with the September 11 terrorist attacks was contrary to the
First Amendment.

The May 29 decision by Judge John W. Bissell is posted here:

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/njmashcrft052902opn.pdf

The Justice Department was not happy with the decision, and was
expected to appeal.  "The closure of these hearings is vital to
the ongoing efforts of law enforcement to take reasonable but
necessary steps to protect our national security," according to
a press statement.  "These considerations will inform our
decisions and response to the district court's order."  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/05/doj052902.html

Also this week a federal court in Washington heard arguments
from the Center for National Security Studies and other groups
that September 11 detainee identities must properly be disclosed
under the Freedom of Information Act.


PENTAGON READINESS REPORTS PRESERVED

Congress rejected a Pentagon request to eliminate reporting
requirements on military readiness or, alternatively, to limit
them to classified formats, writes Elaine Grossman in Inside the
Pentagon on May 30. Outside analysts say the readiness reports
enable them to contribute to oversight of the vast defense
budget.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/05/itp053002.html


FACTUAL ERROR FOUND ON INTERNET

"The Information Age was dealt a stunning blow Monday, when a
factual error was discovered on the Internet," reported The
Onion, the satirical online magazine, on May 22.  See "Factual
Error Found on Internet" here:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3819/factual_error_found.html

Secrecy News will be away next week.  Publication will resume
the week of June 10.


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_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
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